On 17 Oct 2012, at 22:02, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

2012/10/17 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> 2012/10/17 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> On 17 Oct 2012, at 10:12, Alberto G. Corona wrote:Life may support mathematics.Arithmetic may support life. It is full of life and dreams.Life is a computation devoted to making guesses about the future inorder to self preserve . This is only possible in a world wherenatural computers are possible: in a world where the phisical lawshave a mathematical nature. Instead of comp creating a mathematical-phisical reality, is the mathematical reality what creates thecomputations in which we live.So all kind of arbitrary universes may exist, but only (some)mathematical ones can harbour self preserving computations, thatis, observers.OK. But harboring self-preserving computation is not enough, it mustdo in a first person measure winning way on all computations goingthrough our state. That's nice as this explain that your idea ofevolution needs to be extended up to the origin of the physical laws.I donĀ“t think so .The difference between computation as an ordinaryprocess of matter from the idea of computation as the ultimateessence of reality is that the first restrict not only themathematical laws, but also forces a matemacity of reality becausecomputation in living beings becomes a process with a cost thatfavour a low kolmogorov complexity for the reality. In essence, itforces a discoverable local universe... ,In contrast, the idea of computation as the ultimate nature ofrealtity postulates computations devoid of restrictions bydefinition, so they may not restrict anything in the reality that weperceive. we may be boltzmann brains, we may be a product not ofevolution but a product of random computations. we may perceiveelephants flying...And still much of your conclussions coming from the first personindeterminacy may hold by considering living beings as ordinarymaterial personal computers.

`Yes, that's step seven. If the universe is enough "big", to run a`

`*significant* part of the UD. But I think that the white rabbits`

`disappear only on the limit of the whole UD work (UD*).`

Bruno

Mathematics is just a collection of representations that areinternally logically consistent (note that the total mathematicaluniverse is not a single consistent set!), so outside of that whatis there? Comp is a mathematical model, its "support" outside ofmath remains to be seen.Comp, is a bet involving the physical world, and the first personsubject. But by its very nature, it leads to doubt the necessity tobet about something outside of a tiny part of arithmetic, for theontology, as the "inside view" will already explode in a nonmathematically unboundable way.You need only the Turing universal reality. It is not important tochoose numbers, or lambda terms, or combinators, or the game of lifepattern, as they all lead to the same couplings consciousness/realities.The arithmetical reality escapes the computable reality, but thecomputed beings are confronted to both the computable and the noncomputable, and a complete transfinite ladder of surprises.Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.-- Alberto. -- Alberto. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

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