On 20 Oct 2012, at 22:09, meekerdb wrote:

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On 10/20/2012 10:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:Dear Stephen, On 19 Oct 2012, at 19:44, Stephen P. King wrote:On 10/19/2012 1:37 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 17 Oct 2012, at 22:02, Alberto G. Corona wrote:2012/10/17 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> 2012/10/17 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> On 17 Oct 2012, at 10:12, Alberto G. Corona wrote:Life may support mathematics.Arithmetic may support life. It is full of life and dreams.Life is a computation devoted to making guesses about thefuture in order to self preserve . This is only possible in aworld where natural computers are possible: in a world wherethe phisical laws have a mathematical nature. Instead of compcreating a mathematical-phisical reality, is the mathematicalreality what creates the computations in which we live.So all kind of arbitrary universes may exist, but only (some)mathematical ones can harbour self preserving computations,that is, observers.OK. But harboring self-preserving computation is not enough, itmust do in a first person measure winning way on allcomputations going through our state. That's nice as thisexplain that your idea of evolution needs to be extended up tothe origin of the physical laws.I donĀ“t think so .The difference between computation as anordinary process of matter from the idea of computation as theultimate essence of reality is that the first restrict not onlythe mathematical laws, but also forces a matemacity of realitybecause computation in living beings becomes a process with acost that favour a low kolmogorov complexity for the reality.In essence, it forces a discoverable local universe... ,In contrast, the idea of computation as the ultimate nature ofrealtity postulates computations devoid of restrictions bydefinition, so they may not restrict anything in the realitythat we perceive. we may be boltzmann brains, we may be aproduct not of evolution but a product of random computations.we may perceive elephants flying...And still much of your conclussions coming from the first personindeterminacy may hold by considering living beings as ordinarymaterial personal computers.Yes, that's step seven. If the universe is enough "big", to run a*significant* part of the UD. But I think that the white rabbitsdisappear only on the limit of the whole UD work (UD*).BrunoDear Bruno,Tell us more about how White Rabbits can appear if there isany restriction of mutual logical consistency between 1p and inany arbitrary recursion of 1p content?We assume comp. If a digital computer processes the activity ofyour brain in dream state with white rabbits, it means that such acomputation "with that dream" exist in infinitely many local"incarnation" in the arithmetical (tiny, Turing universal) reality.If you do a physical experience, the hallucination that all goesweird at that moment exists also, in arithmetic. The measureproblem consists in justifying from consistency, self-reference,universal numbers, their rarity,And their very specific correlation with the physical brain statesof sleep.

`Of course. But this is taken into account in the theoretical reasoning`

`where we suppose the "brain state" are obtained by (immaterial)`

`machine doing the computation at the right level.`

`We cannot know our "right level", so we are not trying to build an`

`artificial brain. The measure problem comes from the fact that,`

`whatever the level is, the physics has to be given by a measure on`

`computations. That is enough to already derive the logic of the`

`observable, and that a step toward solving the measure problem,`

`although some other possible manner might exist.`

Bruno

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