On 24 Oct 2012, at 20:17, meekerdb wrote:

On 10/24/2012 4:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 23 Oct 2012, at 15:35, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

Nothing is true, even comp, until it is proven by experiment.

Then your own consciousness is false, which I doubt.

But I do experience my consciousness.

Every one does. I was a bit ironical with Roger perhaps, just following his logic.

Then the existence even of the appearance of a physical universe is false.
Since Gödel, we know that, even limiting ourselves to 3p truth on the numbers relations, almost all the true one are unprovable in any theory.
Truth is *far* bigger than proof.
And concerning reality, in science there is no proof at all, as easily explained by the antic dream argument. In science we never prove anything about reality. We postulate theories, and prove only things *in* the theories. Then experiment can disprove a theory, but never prove it to be correct.
Except QM, all theories in physics have been refuted at some time.

Of course QM is really a schema for physical theories, like Lagrangians are a schema for classical mechanics. No way has been found to apply it to gravity so there are a range of phenomena against which it has not been tested.

But factual gravity facts don't refute it either.

And then arithmetic contains the many dreams ... I am not sure there is any universe, but existing or not, it has to appear like a multiverse, locally, to ensure the existence of first person plural sharable dreams.



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