On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > Define "John Clark". >
Define "define". > > the semantic of proper name is the most difficult unsolved problem in > philosophy. > No it is not, the meaning of pronouns like "I" and "He" and "you" where it is not even known what proper name they refer to because of the existence of duplicating chambers is the most difficult unsolved problem in philosophy. > Comp gives hints, > Hints that do me no good because I no longer know what "comp" means, and I strongly suspect you don't either. >> And after its all over and the dust has settled John Clark can see that >> John Clark's Helsinki prediction, that was made before all this started, >> was completely accurate. >> > > > I don't see this at all. After the duplication all the John Clark > realise that they are in only one city, And that is exactly what John Clark predicted would happen. > and that they were unable to predict which one. > Wrong! John Clark correctly predicted that the Moscow man would see Moscow and the Washington man would see Moscow. John Clark doesn't understand what more should be expected of a prediction; and before either saw either city John Clark does not even understand what is meant by "which one". The words "which city" has meaning but the words "which John Clark" does not as long as neither has seen a city and both are still identical. > You the 3p view on the 1p views, which makes indeed sense, as it is the > 3p view on the 1p views that we can attribute to another, > John Clark is getting tired of all this peeing and still doesn't know what the 3p view on the 1p views by two 1p as seen from the 3p view is supposed to mean. John Clark can only view John Clark's view, the first person view. > You said that after the duplication the 1-views of the John Clark have > been duplicated, and this contradict what you say now. > John Clark said that after John Clark's body and brain has been duplicated John Clark's consciousness has NOT been duplicated because it is not a noun, it's what a noun does. There will be only one mind until the environment causes a change in one brain that is not made in the other, and after that the 2 brains operate differently and thus what they do, mind, is different and they become different people; although they are both John Clark because John Clark has been duplicated. And there is nothing contradictory in any of that, it's just odd. > Only one question is asked, to only one guy: "Where will you feel to be > after the duplication?" > And the answer is Washington and Moscow. If you then asked "me" if "I" would feel like "I" was in one city or two "I" would answer just one without hesitation. And this is strange but not contradictory because "I" HAS BEEN DUPLICATED. > > > If you reason like that in quantum QM without collapse, and if you look > at the position of an electron in hydrogen atom, you have to answer "I will > find the electron is everywhere". > Yes the electron is everywhere but If Many Worlds is correct then John Clark is everywhere too and has as many states to be in as the electron has places to go. So no matter where the electron is after a experiment there will always be a John Clark who observes the electron hitting that and only that point on the photographic plate. No matter where a electron is there will always be a John Clark observing it there after a experiment. > pronouns have a far simpler semantic than proper name. That can't be, all pronouns are supposed to refer to a noun so can't be simpler than the noun. Bruno Marchal keeps shoving John Clark into duplicating chambers and then sends John Clark on various exciting but very different adventures and then asks what "you" will see; but there can be no answer because it is a incomplete question. It's like asking how much is 2 +....? > You opush on a button, and you look around. What will you see. > What will who see? > > a first person indeterminacy in Helsinki, about which city you will see. > Which city will who see? > Define "John Clark". > Why? Examples are vastly more important than definitions. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.