On 25 Sep 2013, at 14:40, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 2:58:25 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
On 24 Sep 2013, at 20:58, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Monday, September 23, 2013 1:16:08 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
shape belongs to the category of numbers imagination, and with comp
this is given by arithmetical relations.
Numbers imagination seem like human imagination to me.
Nice. That is a reason for taking number's talk seriously.
I had more of 'numbers imagination = pathetic fallacy' meaning in
mind.
OK, but then you beg the question, and just repeat: I believe that
comp is wrong, without explaining why.
It is not. What is important is to not impose certainties on other.
To make clear what we assume.
That's what I am trying to do - make clear what you assume. If you
start out granting numbers imagination, then you have already have
consciousness, and have no need for comp.
Of course. Comp is an assumption concerning consciousness and
computations. Then the *conclusion* is that the theory of everything
is elementary arithmetic.
Buy everything that is not obviously elementary arithmetic can just
be presumed to be part of numbers imagination.
No, you have to do the math and verify that it predicts correctly what
we see. Up to now, comp predicts the MW, with a quantum structure, and
a core symmetrical structure (but we have not yet really its linear
aspect, nor the measure istelf, etc.).
Comp is not a theory of everything,
Indeed. It is a philosophical or theological principle or assumption.
Then, if we make that assumption, the theorem is that the theory of
everything is given by arithmetic or anything Turing equivalent.
its a dualism of everything computational vs everything imagined by
computations.
Imagined by people supported by infinities of computations. But the
imagination is reduced itself to arithmetical relations (even finite
one, now), so it is a monism.
Maybe you can get a set of variables with unknown values, but why
would they have a smell or sound?
Because if they didn't, you would die when saying "yes" to the
doctor.
Yes, you would.
Because you assume non-comp, but I still don't see why.
Because flavors exist, but comp has no reason to imagine them.
Well, the one saying "yes" to the doctor does have a reason to hope
for it, and he can hope that the evidences (the Turing emulability of
biophysical known object) are not misleading.
The truth or falsity of comp is out of my topic.
I am interested only in the refutability of comp.
That may already be biasing the evaluation of comp beyond repair.
Consciousness is not about refutability,
Doing a precise theory is about making a refutable theory.
Depends if the theory is about consciousness or not. Consciousness
can only be a baseless assertion. It is the base of all assertion
and the assertion of all bases.
You assume consciousness to be fundamental, and matter. That is
coherent with your non-comp theory, but is not an argument against comp.
it is about perceiving and participating. Refutability is a second
order logic derived from that. If you use the weak standard of
refutability, then you cannot be surprised when we take a puppet
for a person.
I can hardly be surprised, because that is mainly what I assume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJRluXBa4e8
Cute, but not quite convincing for the present topic.
Bruno
Craig
Bruno
Craig
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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