On 03 Oct 2013, at 01:38, chris peck wrote:
Hi Bruno
[JC] Because step 3 sucks.
[Bruno] Why? You have not yet make a convincing point on this.
His point is convincing me.
Could you explain it?
Bruno
regards.
> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 23:18:07 +0200
> Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:37 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > On 10/2/2013 7:03 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Bruno Marchal
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 01 Oct 2013, at 19:34, meekerdb wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 10/1/2013 7:13 AM, David Nyman wrote:
> >>>
> >>> However, on reflection, this is not what one should deduce
from the
> >>> logic as set out. The logical structure of each subjective
moment is
> >>> defined as encoding its relative past and anticipated future
states
> >>> (an assumption that seems consistent with our understanding of
brain
> >>> function, for example).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But then it seems one needs the physical, or at least the
subconscious.
> >>> If
> >>> one conceives a "subjective moment" as just what one is
conscious of in
> >>> "a
> >>> moment" it doesn't encode very much of the past. And in the
digital
> >>> simulation paradigm the computational state doesn't encode any
of it. So
> >>> I
> >>> think each conscious "moment" must have considerable extent in
(physical)
> >>> time so as to overlap and provide continuity.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But then comp is false, OK? As with comp the present first
person moment
> >>> can
> >>> be encoded, and indeed sent on Mars, etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Of course physical time need not correspond in any simple way to
> >>> computational steps.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> OK. With this remark, comp remains consistent, indeed. That
last remark
> >>> is
> >>> quite interesting, and a key to grasp comp and its relation to
physics. I
> >>> think.
> >>
> >> Could time arise from recursivity? A very caricatural example:
> >>
> >> f(x) = x :: f(x + 1)
> >>
> >> So f(0) would go through the steps:
> >> (0)
> >> (0 1)
> >> (0 1 2)
> >> ...
> >>
> >> If (in a caricatural way) we associated each step with a
moment, each
> >> step would contain a memory of the past, although the function
I wrote
> >> is just some static mathematical object I dug up from Platonia.
> >> Furthermore, these moments would appear to be relates in a
causality
> >> sequence: (0) -> (0 1) -> (0 1 2) and so on. What do you think?
> >
> >
> > They form a sequence of states which overlap and so have an
inherent order.
> > But that can't be the right model for conscious states because
they don't
> > contain all past conscious states; in general their content is
very sparse
> > relative memory.
>
> Sure but it would be trivial to define some recursive function that
> generates a sequence of states with sparse or even distorted
memories
> of previous states. The recursive function could be as complex as
you
> like.
>
> Telmo.
>
> > Brent
> >
> >
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