On 03 Oct 2013, at 01:38, chris peck wrote:

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Hi Bruno [JC] Because step 3 sucks. [Bruno] Why? You have not yet make a convincing point on this. His point is convincing me.

Could you explain it? Bruno

regards. > Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 23:18:07 +0200 > Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name? > From: te...@telmomenezes.com > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:37 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>wrote:> > On 10/2/2013 7:03 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >>> >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Bruno Marchal<marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:> >>> > >>> On 01 Oct 2013, at 19:34, meekerdb wrote: > >>> > >>> On 10/1/2013 7:13 AM, David Nyman wrote: > >>>> >>> However, on reflection, this is not what one should deducefrom the> >>> logic as set out. The logical structure of each subjectivemoment is> >>> defined as encoding its relative past and anticipated futurestates> >>> (an assumption that seems consistent with our understanding ofbrain> >>> function, for example). > >>> > >>>> >>> But then it seems one needs the physical, or at least thesubconscious.> >>> If> >>> one conceives a "subjective moment" as just what one isconscious of in> >>> "a> >>> moment" it doesn't encode very much of the past. And in thedigital> >>> simulation paradigm the computational state doesn't encode anyof it. So> >>> I> >>> think each conscious "moment" must have considerable extent in(physical)> >>> time so as to overlap and provide continuity. > >>> > >>>> >>> But then comp is false, OK? As with comp the present firstperson moment> >>> can > >>> be encoded, and indeed sent on Mars, etc. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Of course physical time need not correspond in any simple way to > >>> computational steps. > >>> > >>>> >>> OK. With this remark, comp remains consistent, indeed. Thatlast remark> >>> is> >>> quite interesting, and a key to grasp comp and its relation tophysics. I> >>> think. > >> > >> Could time arise from recursivity? A very caricatural example: > >> > >> f(x) = x :: f(x + 1) > >> > >> So f(0) would go through the steps: > >> (0) > >> (0 1) > >> (0 1 2) > >> ... > >>> >> If (in a caricatural way) we associated each step with amoment, each> >> step would contain a memory of the past, although the functionI wrote> >> is just some static mathematical object I dug up from Platonia.> >> Furthermore, these moments would appear to be relates in acausality> >> sequence: (0) -> (0 1) -> (0 1 2) and so on. What do you think? > > > >> > They form a sequence of states which overlap and so have aninherent order.> > But that can't be the right model for conscious states becausethey don't> > contain all past conscious states; in general their content isvery sparse> > relative memory. > > Sure but it would be trivial to define some recursive function that> generates a sequence of states with sparse or even distortedmemories> of previous states. The recursive function could be as complex asyou> like. > > Telmo. > > > Brent > > > > > > --> > You received this message because you are subscribed to theGoogle Groups> > "Everything List" group.> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails fromit, send an> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > --> You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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