On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> There is still FPI going on in the "rogue" simulation - the one where Glak
> emerges from an alternative-physics, as there are infinite continuations
> from Glak's state(s) in the alternative physics.
>
>
> You cannot change the FPI, as it is the same for all machines. You are
> introducing a special physical continuation, which a priori does not make
> sense. Glak, in his own normal world obeys the same laws of physics than
> us, with a very different histories and geographies and biologies.
>
>
I'm asking you, for the moment, and in apparent contradiction with the
math, to suspend the AUDA entailment that there is a single physics.

What I'm suggesting is that Glak's identity is constructed from something
more than its characterization as a "mere" Lobian machine. There is a
reason why I will suddenly never wake up to be Bruno Marchal. Even if we
are both Lobian machines, there is a lot more that goes through our
consciousness, in order to arrive at the unique subjective experience and
identity of Bruno or Terren, than mere Lobianity. I'm taking that further
by hypothesizing the example of Glak, whose subjective experience and
identity must be bound to a *particular* physics/biology, in such a way
that a being who self-identifies as Glak, with all of Glak's memories etc,
could not possibly manifest in "our" physics.

The sticking point of the AUDA for me has always been the identity of us,
as human beings, with the idealized machines being interviewed. We are
clearly Lobian, in some sense, but it also seems clear to me that our
consciousness, our subjective experience, integrates its embodiment. Our
(apparent) bodies are part of our identities, and through sensory
interfaces shape our subjective experience... and as our bodies are part of
physics, then Glak's body in an alternative physics is likewise a part of
Glak's identity, and the measure of the most probable continuations for
Glak, I think, require that alternative body, which require an alternative
physics.

I'm wondering if there's room in the math for an accounting of
consciousness that goes beyond Lobian machines in such a way as to allow
for alternate physics.

 Terren


>
>
> The reason I am still unsure of your answer here Bruno
>
>
> It is a complex question.
>
>
> is that I can imagine a scenario where Glak is implemented in an
> alternative physics - that is to say, knows herself as Glak and has
> memories of being Glak - but Glak is not able to be implemented in "our"
> physics.
>
>
> At which level? What does that mean?
>
>
>
>
> For example, in the alternative physics world, Glak's psychology is
> embodied in a completely different kind of biology, a biology that is not
> compatible with our physics. Now by comp, Glak's mind can be uploaded to a
> simulation running in our physics, but it is no longer clear which measure
> is more probable. It seems possible to me that Glak's measure is greatest
> in the alternative physics.
>
>
> No problem with that. Then we will not fail him from his first person
> perspective, because he will go back there in a nanosecond. And the poor
> 3p-I staying here with us, well, he will suspect something too, soon or
> later, for the preview reasons.
>
> This should be clearer, hopefully, when I translate "probability" in
> arithmetic. If Glak is Löbian, then it has the same physics than us, and
> that can be approached  by some modal logics related to arithmetical
> self-reference.  It is hard for me to really decide if UDA is more simple
> or more complex than AUDA, on the heart of the subject. You might tell me,
> soon or later :)
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
> Terren
>
>
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