On 18 January 2014 19:51, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 1/17/2014 10:18 PM, LizR wrote:
>
> On 18 January 2014 19:12, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> But where does it exist? X has to be conscious of a location, a
>> physics, etc. If all this is the same as where I exist, then it is just
>> a translation of this world into arithmetic. It's the flip side of "A
>> perfect description of X is the same as X", i.e. "X is the perfect
>> description of X". If every perfect description is realized somewhere in
>> arithmetic (and I think it probably is) nothing is gained by saying we may
>> be in arithmetic.
>>
>> Don't we gain less entities, making Occam a bit happier? If we can get
> the appearance of a universe without having to actually have one, can't we
> "retire the universe" and just stick with the
> "appearance-of-one-with-equal-explanatory-value" ? (Not an original idea,
> of course, I'm fairly sure Max Tegmark said something along those lines
> regarding his mathematical universe hypothesis -- that if the maths was
> isomorphic to the universe, why bother to assume the universe was
> physically there?).
>
>
> I'm asking why have the maths?
>

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Well (putting on my AR hat) we have it because the maths is
*necessarily*existent, while the universe isn't.
>
> Of course there's an answer - we can manipulate the maths - but then
> doesn't that proves that the maths aren't the universe. They wouldn't be
> any use as predictive and descriptive tools if they WERE the things
> described. They are only useful because they are abstractions, i.e. they
> leave stuff out (like existence?).
>
Well .... the maths does have that "unreasonable effectiveness" (that
you're probably bored to death hearing about). And one reason for that
could be because it is - in the guise of some yet-to-be-discovered TOE -
isomorphic to the universe.
In which case - should it ever prove to be the case - see above.
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