On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:37 PM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 10:12:18PM -0500, Stephen Paul King wrote:
> > Dear Russell,
> >
> >   I don't see the connection. How is self-modeling involved in "the space
> > where the
> > system integrates the outputs of its various subsystems
> > "?
> >
>
> Perhaps its just this: the structure of neural connections in the
> brain supports the global workspace idea. Most axons are local, but a
> small percent run right across the brain. Also fMRI studies show
> certain parts of the brain lighting up when the subject is consciously
> aware of some stimulus, but not when not conscious of it (but the
> primary sensory processing area lights up in both cases).
>

Does Global Workspace assume small-world topology? I will take a look at
it... 



>
> In the same way as this data supports the global workspace, whether a
> brain performs self-awareness or not should also leave its mark on
> the network structure, and on brain behaviour visible through fMRI.
>

I still don't understand how you can extract an exact model of the
computation by mere inspection of the hardware. Yes, there is a
correlation, but it is not a bijection.



>
> >   There is a robotics project that does include very rudimentary
> > self-modeling in their programing.
> > http://creativemachines.cornell.edu/emergent_self_models
> >
>
> Yes - that's Hod Lipson's work - its definitely a step in the right
> direction.
>


>
> > Does
> > Global Workspace Theory
> >  or
> > Tononi's
> >
> > integrated information
> >  ideas map onto such?
> >
> >   I have not had much time to dive into consciousness theories lately,
> > other than a few questions regarding languages of AGI... I like what
> > Ben Goertzel has to say on the subject...
>
> I'm just suprised that you would say that definitively that
> zombiehood entails (by definition, you said) a lack of self-awareness,
> or self-modelling in the system.
>

Umm, maybe I am using the wrong definition of p-zombies. Are they
self-aware? If so, would they not also be conscious, aka, have qualia and
1p. Thus the definition is violated...



>
> My understanding of the p-zombie idea is that it is physically
> impossible to distinguish between a p-zombie and a conscious
> being. But it will be clear if a self-awareness module is present,
> particularly if it's a robot like Hod's starfish. Taken togther with
> you comment, would entail that p-zombies cannot possible exist, but
> I'm sceptical things are quite that simple...
>

I agree with your point up to the detectability of the "self-awareness
module" for arbitrary computational systems. I am very interested in this
argument as it impacts a project that has been proposed.



>
> Cheers
>
> --
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics      hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
> University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>



-- 

Kindest Regards,

Stephen Paul King

Senior Researcher

Mobile: (864) 567-3099

stephe...@provensecure.com

 http://www.provensecure.us/


“This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of
the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain
information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as
attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message
immediately.”

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to