On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:37 PM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 10:12:18PM -0500, Stephen Paul King wrote:
> > Dear Russell,
> > I don't see the connection. How is self-modeling involved in "the space
> > where the
> > system integrates the outputs of its various subsystems
> > "?
> Perhaps its just this: the structure of neural connections in the
> brain supports the global workspace idea. Most axons are local, but a
> small percent run right across the brain. Also fMRI studies show
> certain parts of the brain lighting up when the subject is consciously
> aware of some stimulus, but not when not conscious of it (but the
> primary sensory processing area lights up in both cases).
Does Global Workspace assume small-world topology? I will take a look at
> In the same way as this data supports the global workspace, whether a
> brain performs self-awareness or not should also leave its mark on
> the network structure, and on brain behaviour visible through fMRI.
I still don't understand how you can extract an exact model of the
computation by mere inspection of the hardware. Yes, there is a
correlation, but it is not a bijection.
> > There is a robotics project that does include very rudimentary
> > self-modeling in their programing.
> > http://creativemachines.cornell.edu/emergent_self_models
> Yes - that's Hod Lipson's work - its definitely a step in the right
> > Does
> > Global Workspace Theory
> > or
> > Tononi's
> > integrated information
> > ideas map onto such?
> > I have not had much time to dive into consciousness theories lately,
> > other than a few questions regarding languages of AGI... I like what
> > Ben Goertzel has to say on the subject...
> I'm just suprised that you would say that definitively that
> zombiehood entails (by definition, you said) a lack of self-awareness,
> or self-modelling in the system.
Umm, maybe I am using the wrong definition of p-zombies. Are they
self-aware? If so, would they not also be conscious, aka, have qualia and
1p. Thus the definition is violated...
> My understanding of the p-zombie idea is that it is physically
> impossible to distinguish between a p-zombie and a conscious
> being. But it will be clear if a self-awareness module is present,
> particularly if it's a robot like Hod's starfish. Taken togther with
> you comment, would entail that p-zombies cannot possible exist, but
> I'm sceptical things are quite that simple...
I agree with your point up to the detectability of the "self-awareness
module" for arbitrary computational systems. I am very interested in this
argument as it impacts a project that has been proposed.
> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
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Stephen Paul King
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