On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> If "you" doesn't mean remembering being a man in Helsinki then I ask for >> the 9999 time, what the hell does the personal pronoun "you" mean? If Bruno >> is unable to give a coherent answer to that question, and by now it's >> pretty clear that Bruno can not, then please stop using that word when >> trying to tackle issues like personal identity or the unique feeling of >> self. > > > > > You makes me say what I did not say. > > I repeat: "you" meant, since always, "remembering being the man in > Helsinki". > > What I said, is that the definition, which I use, does not determine the > 1p. > Well of course it doesn't determine *THE* 1p because in a world with people duplicating machines there is no such thing as *THE* 1p. > > > You can be in both city, but you will feel in once city. > Who can be in both cities but you will feel in one city? >>> >> you cannot live both experience at once >> > >> >> >> Who cannot live both experiences at once? > > > > > Anyone, > What about anytwo? > > >>> >>> >>> The guy has been duplicated, there is no such thing as " *the* 1p". >> >> > > > >> >> >> It is, obviously, the 1p that you will live in >> > > > >> > The 1p that who will live in? > > > > You, > And who is "you"? The 1p that you will live in . And who is "you" again? The person that has the 1p. And who has this 1p? You. A nd round and round we go. So at this point why would Bruno continue to use that personal pronoun? There can only be one reason, b ecause it is the only word with sufficient ambiguity to cover the gargantuan logical gaps in Bruno's argument. both will admit they got one bit of information. >> >> >> >> >> >> That is not new information. Even before the reconstitution boxes have >> been opened I (there was still only one John Clark then, so "I" is >> not ambiguous) knew that when those doors were opened one John Clark would >> receive photons from Moscow and one John Clark would receive photons from >> Washington. And I also knew which one would be which, I knew the Moscow Man >> would get his photons from Moscow and the Washington Man would get his >> photons from Washington. Nothing new has been learned. > > > > > This confirms that you don't listen to what they say. because this, if > correct would make the prediction "W & M", and both copies refute it. > One copy would refute it but both copies confirm it. John K Clark > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>> And how many cities will those two yous observe from the first person? >>> >>> John Clark believes the answer is 2. >> >> >> Again you say a triviality in the 3p description, and a contradiction >> *for* the 1p perspective, when seen *from* the 1p-perspective, which was >> the point of the question. >> > > If duplicating chambers are involved there is no such thing as > *the *1p perspective when seen from *the* 1p-perspective > . One perspective has just as much a right to be called "first" as > another. > > > > The point is that for both copies, each experience is exclusive of the > other, and so from both their 1p views, the "the" made in Helsinki if > sensical. Again, that is pretty obvious if you iterate the duplication. > > > > > >> > >> You try hard to blur the 1p/3p distinction >> > > Don't be an ass. The trouble isn't the distinction between 1p and 3p, > the trouble is the distinction between *the* 1p and *a* 1p. > > > Then use "a 1p", as it works as well to get the indeterminacy of the > subjective experiences---*all* the subjectives experienceS, which all get > one bit of information at each duplication, as they will all confirm. > > You might be inspired to try to find a mistake in step 4-8, as you fail on > step 3. On step 3 you are just successfully proving the vastness of your > bad faith, and your diminishing ability to renew your handwaving technic > and rhetorical means. > > > > Bruno > > > > > > > John K Clark > > >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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