On 1/20/2020 5:42 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:22:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote:
On 1/20/2020 4:51 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote:
On 1/20/2020 3:29 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
> IF it has a beginning, it didn't exist prior to that
beginning, so it
> couldn't ever be infinite thereafter because the expansion
occurs at a
> finite rate
There's an implicit assumption that it could not have come into
existence as infinite...but it could have come into existence as
finite. Why is the latter OK but not the former?
Brent
If it was finite or infinite at T = 0, it "began" before T = 0. AG
Now you're obfuscating. Nobody said anything about T=0 which you
now throw out with no definition.
Call it what you like. It's a symbol for the start or beginning. AG
One might think so, but then you explicitly say it began before
T=0...whatever that means.
The question is why do think something finite can come into
existence but something infinite can't.
It if were finite or infinite "at the beginning", it existed before
then, as finite or infinite.
Why? You're just making up axioms out your intuition...just like an
Aristotelian.
I am assuming that it didn't exist before it began! You want to have
your cake and eat it. AG
You're just prejudiced against infinite things?
No. I just don't believe finite processes in finite times can have
infinite results.
OK. But why can't something exist without a process. You seem fine
with assuming finite things exist without growing from zero by some process.
Brent
This is really so simple. Why can't you see it? Voting for Trump?. AG
|But if that's the answer, why allow for anything infinite, either
in time or rate or extent?
|You seem to want to argue that only a closed, positively curved
universe is possible.
No. If our universe didn't have a beginning, it wouldn't necessarily
be closed and positively curved. AG
|If you simply reject the possibility of infinite extent then you
can conclude that...
I don't .What I'm rejecting is a universe with a beginning AND
infinite in spatial extent. AG
|not need to argue about beginnings or rate of expansion or
anything else.
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