Am Di, 15. Dez 2020, um 21:32, schrieb Lawrence Crowell: > I think with cyber-neural interlinks where we will have thoughts and > sensations communicated we will come maybe to some understanding. The barrier > between subjectivity and objectivity will be at least partially penetrated.
You can have a subjective experience of such a thing, but how can you really ever abandon subjective experience itself? Telmo > LC > On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 8:22:57 PM UTC-6 Brent wrote: >> I agree. I'm an advocate of the engineering solution to the "hard problem >> of consciousness". When we can build AI's that act intelligently and >> explain their conscious thoughts and we can adjust them so that they are >> more or less humorous or optimistic v. pessimstic or intuitive v. >> contemplative, etc...then we will have understood as much as there is to >> understand about consciousness. >> >> Brent >> >> >> On 12/14/2020 4:46 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> I wince when people bring consciousness into scientific discussions. It is >>> not entirely clear how consciousness can ever be a fully scientific >>> subject. Maybe within the soft problem limits it can be somewhat >>> scientific. The qualia or hard problem I think is outside of science. >>> >>> LC >>> >>> On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 7:36:08 AM UTC-6 [email protected] wrote: >>>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> * >> On 12/13/2020 9:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:* >>>>> * * >>>>>> *>> We cannot start from consciousness,* >>>> >>>> I agree because the scientific method is of no use for consciousness. So >>>> instead start with Intelligent behavior, aka The Turing Test. >>>> >>>>> *> and we cannot start with matter, which are the notion that we have to >>>>> explain from numbers,* >>>> >>>> That is an unwarranted assumption on your part. You don't need numbers to >>>> explain matter, you need matter to explain numbers. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> > *Why can't you start from consciousness. It's more immediately known >>>>> > than numbers. * >>>> >>>> Why can't you start from intelligent behavior. It's more immediately known >>>> than either. It takes intelligence to conclude "I think therefore I am". >>>> >>>> John K Clark >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/cb9dcbd1-5106-43a2-8549-67e43ca1272dn%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/cb9dcbd1-5106-43a2-8549-67e43ca1272dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b60e4f40-77c7-4369-ab91-4940e9142a79n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b60e4f40-77c7-4369-ab91-4940e9142a79n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e3a915b0-a62a-4631-b700-17da3fb1a850%40www.fastmail.com.
