Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Robert West]

Scott,

You are focused correctly.  BILLING!  It all has to orbit around billing or
we may as well stay home.  

Unless, of course the billing server is at home, then it's okay to do other
things...  Like scrapbooking and laminating things with the wife.  

Hm...





Billing needs to be elsewhere.  






-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Lambert
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:34:01PM -0700, Mark Nash wrote:
> This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think...
> 

> Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these systems 
> get updated when components on our networks are 
> added/removed/replaced/changed.

That place is the billing system
 
> For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information
about that new customer goes into:
> 

> - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate 
> amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled 
> correctly, correct price, contract signed & stored, etc)
>
> - nagios (to monitor)
> 

With the right information in billing, a bit of scripting will automagically
keep your Nagios configuration up to date.

>
> - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs)
> 

Keep this in the billing system.

>
> - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we 
> have to go out there again)

Keep this in the billing system where your techs can update as needed.

> - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable

You can probably script this from the billing system if it tracks the MAC
address of the customer's equipment.  Depends on your APs and such.
 
> Then if that customer cancels...
> 
> - remove from billing

Mark the account inactive in billing.  Keep the data.  Database storage is
cheap these days.  That's probably what you meant...

> - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring)

This automagically happens when your script to automagically update Nagios
removes accounts which are marked as inactive.

> - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP)

Let the billing system mark the IP as inactive when the account is marked
inactive.

> - remove equipment documentation

Keep the documentation on the account notes.  They may come back.
Database storage is cheap these days.
 
> Or if that customer has to change towers on our network...
> 

Update the billing system.

> - change monitored IP address

Automagically happens on the next Nagios configuration generation run.

> - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP)

Do this through the billing system.

> - change equipment documentation (if necessary)

This is part of updating the billing system, which the on-site tech should
do before leaving the customer's site.  Updating the billing system while
on-site ensures the Tech actually tested the connection by using it.

> - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable

Hopefully you can script this from the billing system.

> Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down...
>
> - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using 
> manual re-routing, not autmatic)

Dynamic routing.  Manual, ick.

> - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios 
> "Parents" so that devices that are behind a "Down" device is not 
> "Down" itself, just "Unreachable" - saves the inbox from getting 
> blasted if a backhaul goes down

If there are multiple paths, you can use multiple parents in Nagios.
Nagios should do the right thing.  We don't use the multiple parents
option because it screws up the Map.   But if the primary path goes
down, the hosts which are still reachable stay up in Nagios.

> - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're 
> monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul

You can create hosts in Nagios for each interface on a router if you want.
Then you know when your backup path goes down before the primary dies.

> Then you get it back up and you have to change these things back.
>
> My point of all of this is that there are a TON of details to take 
> care of, and if you try to grow fast you need systems and protocol in 
> place to deal with all of this information.  Things get forgotten 
> about, and your system can be a mess before you know it.

If it's not automatic, it won't get done accurately.  If there are multiple
locations for storing information about your customers and the
configuration, they will get out of sync.

I've worked at three ISPs.  The one which invested in the billing system
which could track everything about a customer and provisioned everything
from the billing system had the fewest customer service complaints.

The other two spend many many extra man-hours tracking down documentation
inconsistencies each year.

I'm a firm believer in what 

Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Robert West]

Sadly.  I agree!  J

 

I think most of us were there in the beginning!

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

 

Yeah, when your goal is 2-3 COMPLETED installs per day, that system quickly
gets out of hand ;).  Other companies on this list go for far more than me,
too.

- Original Message - 

From: Robert West   

To: 'WISPA General List'   

Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:52 PM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

 

My old system of writing it all on the back my business cards and discarded
Burger King napkins found on the floor of the van worked for "awhile" but
quickly failed.  Napkins sometimes got used for other purposes after they
had the information on them so I have a no napkin rule as a result.  Paper
Plates are a better choice, I found.  

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

 

I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread
again...

The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring,  cpe function)
and billing in sync.  I've not seen multiple applications stay together by
human hand.  Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to
it.

On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:

  _  





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Re: [WISPA] Telescoping Mast

[Robert West]

Dude!  I showed ya once.  The Nuclear Torpedo  

 

Wilbert Mast  Pain in the A**  (WISPA RULES PREVAIL)

 

Site surveys always a BS thing.  

 

What I do is make the link calculations, print out the path THEN go to the
site and see the big mass of trees right in the path.  Walk around on
the roof or hang off their antenna tower.

 

Sucks.

 

But you ROCK dude!  Well done.  -

 

The son I never had  

 

 

But never wanted either.  It's a thing,...  you Illegitimate child of not
mine!

 

Steve-

 

(Hiding)

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Liam Cummings
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Telescoping Mast

 

Anyone know of a place where I can get some sort of telescoping mast that I
can tow behind me in my truck or maybe just put on my tow hitch? Oh yeah and
it needs to be cheap too.  I want to start using something like this for our
site surveys because it would be much easier than getting out the
telescoping pole we use and having someone hold it steady with a radio on
it. I was thinking of just making one myself but even the telescoping pole
itself is hard to find.




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Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[RickG]

Per Mike Ford:

[image: Default]
--
 Hello,

Nanostation is 12V to 24V, Bullet is 5V to 24V.

Thanks,

Mike

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Scott Carullo wrote:

> The key to this thread is NS2 - Not NSM2
>
> They are different and the power supplies they can operate of are also
> different...  some NS2's will not work with 24v.  Just fyi...
>
> Scott Carullo
> Technical Operations
> 855-FLSPEED x102
>
>
>
> --
> *From*: "Tom DeReggi" 
> *Sent*: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:27 AM
> *To*: "WISPA General List" 
> *Subject*: Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v
>
> Well, considering it ships with 24V UBNT PS, yes it supports 24V
> Should use regulated PS, to make sure stays under 25V.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jason Hensley" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:28 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v
>
>
> > Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
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>
>
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[WISPA] Telescoping Mast

[Liam Cummings]

Anyone know of a place where I can get some sort of telescoping mast
that I can tow behind me in my truck or maybe just put on my tow hitch?
Oh yeah and it needs to be cheap too.  I want to start using something
like this for our site surveys because it would be much easier than
getting out the telescoping pole we use and having someone hold it
steady with a radio on it. I was thinking of just making one myself but
even the telescoping pole itself is hard to find.




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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Wilson H]

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:17 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:

Also, we USED to have HUMONGOUS discrepancies in setting speed  
limits for customers before the traffic management was integrated  
with the billing system.  We use Powercode for this right now.


In the beginning, we speed limited people at each AP.  The biggest  
problem then was that people were not limited at all (this happened  
quite a bit), until I went in and mandated that every AP on our  
system was pre-populated with a 512k limit for every IP address on  
its subnet.  That did bring up the issue invevitably as people felt  
their connection was "slow".




This also happened to me since, I wasn't controlling customer's bw.  
After applying bw management some complained that their connection was  
slow. They're getting used to it by now. Controlling bw has helped our  
network so much and I find it more reliable, if I would have known  
this I would have done it earlier.





That took a load off of our systems being out of sync with our  
billing at least, then it was mainly monitoring and keeping track of  
IP addresses & equipment types.


- Original Message -
From: Josh Luthman
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big  
thread again...


The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring,  cpe  
function) and billing in sync.  I've not seen multiple applications  
stay together by human hand.  Maybe it would work if someone's  
entire job was dedicated to it.


On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:


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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Wilson H]

I have an application I created myself with php and mysql. When I do  
an install, I login to our server register the customer info along  
with the cpe mac, model, and ip. It assigns the customer 512kbps/ 
128kbps by default. It keeps track of the billing info: balance, etc.  
It cancels if no payment is registered on the due date. Just added a  
"security" feature which checks if user ip comes from the cpe mac  
address.


Is not a "real" wisp app but, it works for for me.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:17 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:

Also, we USED to have HUMONGOUS discrepancies in setting speed  
limits for customers before the traffic management was integrated  
with the billing system.  We use Powercode for this right now.


In the beginning, we speed limited people at each AP.  The biggest  
problem then was that people were not limited at all (this happened  
quite a bit), until I went in and mandated that every AP on our  
system was pre-populated with a 512k limit for every IP address on  
its subnet.  That did bring up the issue invevitably as people felt  
their connection was "slow".


That took a load off of our systems being out of sync with our  
billing at least, then it was mainly monitoring and keeping track of  
IP addresses & equipment types.


- Original Message -
From: Josh Luthman
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big  
thread again...


The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring,  cpe  
function) and billing in sync.  I've not seen multiple applications  
stay together by human hand.  Maybe it would work if someone's  
entire job was dedicated to it.


On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:


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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Blake Covarrubias]

Scott hit the nail on the head with a number points so I will not rehash them, 
but I do agree you should integrate most of that info with your billing system 
(PowerCode, if I'm not mistaken).

We've written scripts to integrate our billing system, Platypus, with all of 
the back-end systems used in our daily operations. Other, less frequently 
modified info such as MPLS VPN, IP & VLAN allocations, and device configuration 
management remains outside of Plat.  Although we are looking at an external OSS 
to deal with these things.

>  
> Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down...
>  
> - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using manual 
> re-routing, not autmatic)

Implement dynamic routing. It's worth it.

> - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios "Parents" so 
> that devices that are behind a "Down" device is not "Down" itself, just 
> "Unreachable" - saves the inbox from getting blasted if a backhaul goes down
> - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're 
> monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul

Implement loopback addresses on each router and monitor those. If / when a link 
goes down the dynamic routing protocol will re-route traffic over the other 
backhaul and the loopback will still be reachable. Nagios won't blast you with 
messages about the devices behind the parent being down, and you don't have to 
change the monitored IP because you are always monitoring an IP which is 
accessible over either backhaul.

You will still want to separately monitor the point-to-point IP's on each 
backhaul to know when the link itself is down, but you would not establish a 
parent -> child relationship with those monitored objects.

--
Blake Covarrubias



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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Rubens Kuhl]

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Tom DeReggi  wrote:
> Any discussion on best way to combine the two links from the DATA FLOW
> perspective or TCIP/IP perspective?
> The average Mikrotik Loadbalancer may not handle that 800mbps link all that
> well.
>
> Are people using Switch level trunk aggregation, or layer3 aggregation
> methods? OR just running two seperate logical link, and putting different
> traffic on different routers/links?
>
> There can be issues with combining at LAyer2, because often two wireless
> links dont operate at exactly teh same speed due to slightly different link
> qualities (packetloss) or SNRs.
>
> I'm assuming most would want to use a session bases method that would
> dynamically assign a specific session to a single link, which would require
> a high layer load balancing option.
>
> We are familiar with most of the load balancing methods, jsut wondering what
> others are choosing for combining two licensed 300-400mb links, and which
> hardware (switch or router) they are using to accomplish it.

At first, used 2 Cisco 3750 doing etherchannel. They can
L2-loadbalance using L3 parameters (src-dst-ip pair) which worked fine
until MPLS was deployed, with a side effect of breaking the
loadbalancing effect. It started working again when replaced with
Cisco ME6524, which can L2-balance with L4 information and MPLS labels
to a smooth session-based balancing with up to 8 links. Even without
the MPLS license, which is the expensive part, my guess is that ME6524
can L2-balance with L4 information and could be an option to such a
job.

And after seeing Mikrotik RB450G load-balancing 200 Mbps with session
persistance without issues, I would consider an RB-1000 to
load-balance 2 links...

Rubens



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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Tom DeReggi]

> This automagically happens when your script to automagically update
> Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive.
>
Be careful with that idea. Automating  that almost killed us. The reason is 
that sometimes you may want to disable monitoring on an account that is 
live, because it may be temporarilly down or temporarilly getting false 
alarms. There were times when we'd have 10-15 alarms disabled manually. The 
problem then is that when you automate a global corss refference between 
billing and monitoring, it re-enables all teh accounts you wanted disabled 
temporarilly. Then you spend 30 mionutes re-disabling the account, if you 
can remember which they are, as you get reminders all niught long when you 
get it wrong.

I'm for automation, but no automation should check all the monitors and auto 
change. The automation should be on an account by account basis only. You 
dont want the automation to mess with accounts that are not the one you are 
specifically working on.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Cameron Crum" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process


This is why we wrote wispmon. Handles virtually all this in a single 
platform.

Cameron

On Friday, November 5, 2010, Scott Lambert  wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:34:01PM -0700, Mark Nash wrote:
>> This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think...
>>
>
>> Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these
>> systems get updated when components on our networks are
>> added/removed/replaced/changed.
>
> That place is the billing system
>
>> For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information 
>> about that new customer goes into:
>>
>
>> - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate
>> amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled
>> correctly, correct price, contract signed & stored, etc)
>>
>> - nagios (to monitor)
>>
>
> With the right information in billing, a bit of scripting will
> automagically keep your Nagios configuration up to date.
>
>>
>> - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs)
>>
>
> Keep this in the billing system.
>
>>
>> - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we
>> have to go out there again)
>
> Keep this in the billing system where your techs can update as needed.
>
>> - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable
>
> You can probably script this from the billing system if it tracks
> the MAC address of the customer's equipment. Depends on your APs
> and such.
>
>> Then if that customer cancels...
>>
>> - remove from billing
>
> Mark the account inactive in billing. Keep the data. Database
> storage is cheap these days. That's probably what you meant...
>
>> - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring)
>
> This automagically happens when your script to automagically update
> Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive.
>
>> - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP)
>
> Let the billing system mark the IP as inactive when the account is
> marked inactive.
>
>> - remove equipment documentation
>
> Keep the documentation on the account notes. They may come back.
> Database storage is cheap these days.
>
>> Or if that customer has to change towers on our network...
>>
>
> Update the billing system.
>
>> - change monitored IP address
>
> Automagically happens on the next Nagios configuration generation
> run.
>
>> - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP)
>
> Do this through the billing system.
>
>> - change equipment documentation (if necessary)
>
> This is part of updating the billing system, which the on-site tech
> should do before leaving the customer's site. Updating the billing
> system while on-site ensures the Tech actually tested the connection
> by using it.
>
>> - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable
>
> Hopefully you can script this from the billing system.
>
>> Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down...
>>
>> - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using
>> manual re-routing, not autmatic)
>
> Dynamic routing. Manual, ick.
>
>> - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios
>> "Parents" so that devices that are behind a "Down" device is not
>> "Down" itself, just "Unreachable" - saves the inbox from getting
>> blasted if a backhaul goes down
>
> If there are multiple paths, you can use multiple parents in Nagios.
> Nagios should do the right thing. We don't use the multiple parents
> option because it screws up the Map. But if the primary path goes
> down, the hosts which are still reachable stay up in Nagios.
>
>> - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're
>> monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul
>
> You can create hosts in Nagios for each interface on a router if
> you want

Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Cameron Crum]

This is why we wrote wispmon. Handles virtually all this in a single platform.

Cameron

On Friday, November 5, 2010, Scott Lambert  wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:34:01PM -0700, Mark Nash wrote:
>> This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think...
>>
>
>> Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these
>> systems get updated when components on our networks are
>> added/removed/replaced/changed.
>
> That place is the billing system
>
>> For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information about 
>> that new customer goes into:
>>
>
>> - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate
>> amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled
>> correctly, correct price, contract signed & stored, etc)
>>
>> - nagios (to monitor)
>>
>
> With the right information in billing, a bit of scripting will
> automagically keep your Nagios configuration up to date.
>
>>
>> - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs)
>>
>
> Keep this in the billing system.
>
>>
>> - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we
>> have to go out there again)
>
> Keep this in the billing system where your techs can update as needed.
>
>> - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable
>
> You can probably script this from the billing system if it tracks
> the MAC address of the customer's equipment.  Depends on your APs
> and such.
>
>> Then if that customer cancels...
>>
>> - remove from billing
>
> Mark the account inactive in billing.  Keep the data.  Database
> storage is cheap these days.  That's probably what you meant...
>
>> - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring)
>
> This automagically happens when your script to automagically update
> Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive.
>
>> - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP)
>
> Let the billing system mark the IP as inactive when the account is
> marked inactive.
>
>> - remove equipment documentation
>
> Keep the documentation on the account notes.  They may come back.
> Database storage is cheap these days.
>
>> Or if that customer has to change towers on our network...
>>
>
> Update the billing system.
>
>> - change monitored IP address
>
> Automagically happens on the next Nagios configuration generation
> run.
>
>> - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP)
>
> Do this through the billing system.
>
>> - change equipment documentation (if necessary)
>
> This is part of updating the billing system, which the on-site tech
> should do before leaving the customer's site.  Updating the billing
> system while on-site ensures the Tech actually tested the connection
> by using it.
>
>> - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable
>
> Hopefully you can script this from the billing system.
>
>> Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down...
>>
>> - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using
>> manual re-routing, not autmatic)
>
> Dynamic routing.  Manual, ick.
>
>> - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios
>> "Parents" so that devices that are behind a "Down" device is not
>> "Down" itself, just "Unreachable" - saves the inbox from getting
>> blasted if a backhaul goes down
>
> If there are multiple paths, you can use multiple parents in Nagios.
> Nagios should do the right thing.  We don't use the multiple parents
> option because it screws up the Map.   But if the primary path goes
> down, the hosts which are still reachable stay up in Nagios.
>
>> - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're
>> monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul
>
> You can create hosts in Nagios for each interface on a router if
> you want.  Then you know when your backup path goes down before the
> primary dies.
>
>> Then you get it back up and you have to change these things back.
>>
>> My point of all of this is that there are a TON of details to take
>> care of, and if you try to grow fast you need systems and protocol
>> in place to deal with all of this information.  Things get forgotten
>> about, and your system can be a mess before you know it.
>
> If it's not automatic, it won't get done accurately.  If there are
> multiple locations for storing information about your customers and
> the configuration, they will get out of sync.
>
> I've worked at three ISPs.  The one which invested in the billing
> system which could track everything about a customer and provisioned
> everything from the billing system had the fewest customer service
> complaints.
>
> The other two spend many many extra man-hours tracking down documentation
> inconsistencies each year.
>
> I'm a firm believer in what the billing system says is how the
> hardware is configured.  It also ensures that there is less left
> over cruft when a customer leaves.  You're not accidentally still
> hosting their DNS two years after they stop paying you.
>
>> We have used the method of us

Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Scott Lambert]

On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:34:01PM -0700, Mark Nash wrote:
> This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think...
> 

> Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these
> systems get updated when components on our networks are
> added/removed/replaced/changed.

That place is the billing system
 
> For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information about 
> that new customer goes into:
> 

> - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate
> amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled
> correctly, correct price, contract signed & stored, etc)
>
> - nagios (to monitor)
> 

With the right information in billing, a bit of scripting will
automagically keep your Nagios configuration up to date.

>
> - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs)
> 

Keep this in the billing system.

>
> - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we
> have to go out there again)

Keep this in the billing system where your techs can update as needed.

> - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable

You can probably script this from the billing system if it tracks
the MAC address of the customer's equipment.  Depends on your APs
and such.
 
> Then if that customer cancels...
> 
> - remove from billing

Mark the account inactive in billing.  Keep the data.  Database
storage is cheap these days.  That's probably what you meant...

> - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring)

This automagically happens when your script to automagically update
Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive.

> - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP)

Let the billing system mark the IP as inactive when the account is
marked inactive.

> - remove equipment documentation

Keep the documentation on the account notes.  They may come back.
Database storage is cheap these days.
 
> Or if that customer has to change towers on our network...
> 

Update the billing system.

> - change monitored IP address

Automagically happens on the next Nagios configuration generation
run.

> - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP)

Do this through the billing system.

> - change equipment documentation (if necessary)

This is part of updating the billing system, which the on-site tech
should do before leaving the customer's site.  Updating the billing
system while on-site ensures the Tech actually tested the connection
by using it.

> - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable

Hopefully you can script this from the billing system.

> Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down...
>
> - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using
> manual re-routing, not autmatic)

Dynamic routing.  Manual, ick.

> - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios
> "Parents" so that devices that are behind a "Down" device is not
> "Down" itself, just "Unreachable" - saves the inbox from getting
> blasted if a backhaul goes down

If there are multiple paths, you can use multiple parents in Nagios.
Nagios should do the right thing.  We don't use the multiple parents
option because it screws up the Map.   But if the primary path goes
down, the hosts which are still reachable stay up in Nagios.

> - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're
> monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul

You can create hosts in Nagios for each interface on a router if
you want.  Then you know when your backup path goes down before the
primary dies.

> Then you get it back up and you have to change these things back.
>
> My point of all of this is that there are a TON of details to take
> care of, and if you try to grow fast you need systems and protocol
> in place to deal with all of this information.  Things get forgotten
> about, and your system can be a mess before you know it.

If it's not automatic, it won't get done accurately.  If there are
multiple locations for storing information about your customers and
the configuration, they will get out of sync.

I've worked at three ISPs.  The one which invested in the billing
system which could track everything about a customer and provisioned
everything from the billing system had the fewest customer service
complaints.

The other two spend many many extra man-hours tracking down documentation
inconsistencies each year.

I'm a firm believer in what the billing system says is how the
hardware is configured.  It also ensures that there is less left
over cruft when a customer leaves.  You're not accidentally still
hosting their DNS two years after they stop paying you.

> We have used the method of using checklists for client changes (new
> customer, repair order, disconnect).
>
> We're just now getting into cleaning up our systems & documentation
> on infrastructure components (routers & backhauls & APs - OH
> MY!!!).  We have alot of information about the initial deployment of
> infrastructure equipment, but 

Re: [WISPA] Juniper M20

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

We can help you with that, if you are open to it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:46 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Somewhere between 1 and 5 gigs.  Probably 1 - 2.
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/5/2010 5:39 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
>> How much aggregate throughput are you looking to handle?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> 
>>> I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20.  I was
>>> looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working
>>> with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the
>>> type of application I'm looking at.  Recommendations\comments?
>>> 
>>> I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some
>>> bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out.  BGP full
>>> routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream.  May need one or more
>>> 10 GigE port(s).
>>> 
>>> On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware,
>>> but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream.
>>> 
>>> I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> 
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> 
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Juniper M20

[Mike Hammett]

Somewhere between 1 and 5 gigs.  Probably 1 - 2.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/5/2010 5:39 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> How much aggregate throughput are you looking to handle?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20.  I was
>> looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working
>> with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the
>> type of application I'm looking at.  Recommendations\comments?
>>
>> I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some
>> bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out.  BGP full
>> routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream.  May need one or more
>> 10 GigE port(s).
>>
>> On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware,
>> but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream.
>>
>> I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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Re: [WISPA] Juniper M20

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

How much aggregate throughput are you looking to handle?

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20.  I was 
> looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working 
> with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the 
> type of application I'm looking at.  Recommendations\comments?
> 
> I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some 
> bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out.  BGP full 
> routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream.  May need one or more 
> 10 GigE port(s).
> 
> On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware, 
> but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream.
> 
> I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice.
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] Juniper M20

[Jon Auer]

IMO you only go with the M line if you need OC cards.
MX80 would be a better fit if you are all ethernet.

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20.  I was
> looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working
> with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the
> type of application I'm looking at.  Recommendations\comments?
>
> I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some
> bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out.  BGP full
> routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream.  May need one or more
> 10 GigE port(s).
>
> On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware,
> but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream.
>
> I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice.
>
> --
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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[WISPA] Juniper M20

[Mike Hammett]

I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20.  I was 
looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working 
with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the 
type of application I'm looking at.  Recommendations\comments?

I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some 
bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out.  BGP full 
routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream.  May need one or more 
10 GigE port(s).

On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware, 
but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream.

I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice.

-- 


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Mark Nash]

Also, we USED to have HUMONGOUS discrepancies in setting speed limits for 
customers before the traffic management was integrated with the billing system. 
 We use Powercode for this right now.

In the beginning, we speed limited people at each AP.  The biggest problem then 
was that people were not limited at all (this happened quite a bit), until I 
went in and mandated that every AP on our system was pre-populated with a 512k 
limit for every IP address on its subnet.  That did bring up the issue 
invevitably as people felt their connection was "slow".

That took a load off of our systems being out of sync with our billing at 
least, then it was mainly monitoring and keeping track of IP addresses & 
equipment types.

- Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process


  I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread 
again...

  The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring,  cpe function) 
and billing in sync.  I've not seen multiple applications stay together by 
human hand.  Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it.

  On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:



--




  

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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Mark Nash]

Yeah, when your goal is 2-3 COMPLETED installs per day, that system quickly 
gets out of hand ;).  Other companies on this list go for far more than me, too.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert West 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process


  My old system of writing it all on the back my business cards and discarded 
Burger King napkins found on the floor of the van worked for "awhile" but 
quickly failed.  Napkins sometimes got used for other purposes after they had 
the information on them so I have a no napkin rule as a result.  Paper Plates 
are a better choice, I found.  

   

   

   

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:46 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

   

  I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread 
again...

  The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring,  cpe function) 
and billing in sync.  I've not seen multiple applications stay together by 
human hand.  Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it.

  On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:



--




  

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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Robert West]

My old system of writing it all on the back my business cards and discarded
Burger King napkins found on the floor of the van worked for "awhile" but
quickly failed.  Napkins sometimes got used for other purposes after they
had the information on them so I have a no napkin rule as a result.  Paper
Plates are a better choice, I found.  

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

 

I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread
again...

The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring,  cpe function)
and billing in sync.  I've not seen multiple applications stay together by
human hand.  Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to
it.

On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:




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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Mark Nash]

We have a 2-pronged approach, actually...

Tech brings checklist back, someone in office processes it and slaps tech 
around if not complete or accurate enough to process...

:) With the right person in the office, this is just beginning to show signs of 
progress.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process


  I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread 
again...

  The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring,  cpe function) 
and billing in sync.  I've not seen multiple applications stay together by 
human hand.  Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it.

  On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:



--




  

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Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Josh Luthman]

I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread
again...

The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring,  cpe function)
and billing in sync.  I've not seen multiple applications stay together by
human hand.  Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to
it.
On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:



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[WISPA] Systems Management - Process

[Mark Nash]

This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think...

I just had a long meeting with our general manager about Systems Management 
(monitoring, documenting, updating, etc)

Let me explain...

We ALL have systems to

1. monitor our network
2. document our systems (IP addresses, equipment type, etc)
3. document our IP usage (subnets, routing, etc)

We probably all have this information in different places.

As our networks and number of devices grow these systems can get out-of-hand 
and OUT-OF SYNC with each other!

Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these systems get 
updated when components on our networks are added/removed/replaced/changed.

For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information about 
that new customer goes into:

- billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate amount added 
for first month, valid billing address, name spelled correctly, correct price, 
contract signed & stored, etc)
- nagios (to monitor)
- IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs)
- equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we have to go 
out there again)
- name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable

Then if that customer cancels...

- remove from billing
- remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring)
- remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP)
- remove equipment documentation

Or if that customer has to change towers on our network...

- change monitored IP address
- change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP)
- change equipment documentation (if necessary)
- name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable

Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down...

- change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using manual 
re-routing, not autmatic)
- change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios "Parents" so 
that devices that are behind a "Down" device is not "Down" itself, just 
"Unreachable" - saves the inbox from getting blasted if a backhaul goes down
- change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're 
monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul

Then you get it back up and you have to change these things back.

My point of all of this is that there are a TON of details to take care of, and 
if you try to grow fast you need systems and protocol in place to deal with all 
of this information.  Things get forgotten about, and your system can be a mess 
before you know it.

We have used the method of using checklists for client changes (new customer, 
repair order, disconnect).  

We're just now getting into cleaning up our systems & documentation on 
infrastructure components (routers & backhauls & APs - OH MY!!!).  We have alot 
of information about the initial deployment of infrastructure equipment, but as 
changes have happened, we have not kept up with it.

So we're looking at expanding upon our checklists for when infrastructure 
components are deployed/changed/removed.  We think this will help the chaos.

How about you?


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Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Tom DeReggi]

Brad is correct. 40Mhz max, due to FCC regs in 11Ghz.

Note, some LIcensed 11Ghz gear is capable to be configured to 56Mhz channels 
sizes because some other countries's regulatory bodies allow 56Mhz channels.
For example, I'm pretty sure England does.
 
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Brad Belton 
  To: sc...@brevardwireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 4:45 PM
  Subject: [Spam] Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops


  No, I do not think so.  FCC limits 11GHz channel size to 40MHz.  However, 165 
+ 165 = 330, so that gets you beyond 300MB in 6GHz with a combiner and 265 + 
265 = 530 in 11GHz with a combiner plate.

   

  Brad

   

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Scott Carullo
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:20 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

   

  Can you use >40Mhz channels with the trangos on 11Ghz for >300Mb throughput?  
I thought we were limited to 40mhz on our apexes for a ~268max throughput...

  Scott Carullo
  Technical Operations
  855-FLSPEED x102



   


--

  From: "Brad Belton" 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:10 PM
  To: "WISPA General List" 
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

  You coordinate two paths.  We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two 
radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end.  One 
radio set is V the other is H.  Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus 
failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for higher 
overall availability.

   

  Best,

   

  Brad

   

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

   

  Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear.  I know 
that your PCN strictly states V or H.

  The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full 
duplex.  Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt  wrote:

  How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?
  Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both
  polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on
  the same channel?


  

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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Tom DeReggi]

Any discussion on best way to combine the two links from the DATA FLOW 
perspective or TCIP/IP perspective?
The average Mikrotik Loadbalancer may not handle that 800mbps link all that 
well.

Are people using Switch level trunk aggregation, or layer3 aggregation methods? 
OR just running two seperate logical link, and putting different traffic on 
different routers/links?

There can be issues with combining at LAyer2, because often two wireless links 
dont operate at exactly teh same speed due to slightly different link qualities 
(packetloss) or SNRs.

I'm assuming most would want to use a session bases method that would 
dynamically assign a specific session to a single link, which would require a 
high layer load balancing option.

We are familiar with most of the load balancing methods, jsut wondering what 
others are choosing for combining two licensed 300-400mb links, and which 
hardware (switch or router) they are using to accomplish it. 
 

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Brad Belton 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops


  You coordinate two paths.  We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two 
radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end.  One 
radio set is V the other is H.  Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus 
failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for higher 
overall availability.

   

  Best,

   

  Brad

   

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

   

  Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear.  I know 
that your PCN strictly states V or H.

  The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full 
duplex.  Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt  wrote:

  How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?
  Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both
  polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on
  the same channel?



  

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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Brad Belton]

No, I do not think so.  FCC limits 11GHz channel size to 40MHz.  However,
165 + 165 = 330, so that gets you beyond 300MB in 6GHz with a combiner and
265 + 265 = 530 in 11GHz with a combiner plate.

 

Brad

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Carullo
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

 

Can you use >40Mhz channels with the trangos on 11Ghz for >300Mb throughput?
I thought we were limited to 40mhz on our apexes for a ~268max throughput...

Scott Carullo
Technical Operations
855-FLSPEED x102

   

 

  _  

From: "Brad Belton" 
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:10 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

You coordinate two paths.  We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two
radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end.  One
radio set is V the other is H.  Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus
failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for
higher overall availability.

 

Best,

 

Brad

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

 

Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear.  I know
that your PCN strictly states V or H.

The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full
duplex.  Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt  wrote:

How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?
Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both
polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on
the same channel?




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Scott Carullo]

Can you use >40Mhz channels with the trangos on 11Ghz for >300Mb 
throughput?  I thought we were limited to 40mhz on our apexes for a ~268max 
throughput...

Scott Carullo
Technical Operations
855-FLSPEED x102



From: "Brad Belton" 
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:10 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops



You coordinate two paths.  We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two 
radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end.  One 
radio set is V the other is H.  Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) 
plus failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity 
for higher overall availability.
 
Best,
 
Brad
 
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
 
Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear.  I know 
that your PCN strictly states V or H.

The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full 
duplex.  Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt  wrote:
How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?
Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both
polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on
the same channel?





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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Gino Villarini]

Saf has the option of dual pol combiner as well

Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
787.273.4143

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?
Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both
polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on
the same channel?




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Kristian Hoffmann]

There was interest in the upgrade outline, so here it is.  This was for
a 11GHz Horizon Compact, but I think the process is the same for 18GHz
as well.  Please also read the release notes for yourself.  It worked
for me, but buyer beware.  If you're running pre 1.01.00, the process to
get up to that version is equally sensitive.

I was told that there was a bug in the older version that caused new
firmware to be written incorrectly in certain cases, thus the need for
certain interim versions and precautions, and that after 1.03.x or so
that it wasn't as precarious.

Also, if you do manage to brick a unit, you can use their Merlin utility
to reflash the ODU with a laptop directly plugged in.

I had the files on a private FTP server with each step in a different
subdirectory to reduce the change of loading the wrong version on
accident.


SW upgrade procedure for systems with 1.01.00 to 1.01.3 omni:

Step 1:
Download release 1.01.32 omni, disable AAM (if already enabled), reset
system.
-
set aam off
copy ftp: /pub/step1/omni_1.01.32.hex
save mib
reset system


Step 2:
Download release 1.03.00 omni, and 1.02.02 mdmOmni, and reset system.
-
copy ftp: /pub/step2/omni_hc_1.03.00.hex
copy ftp: /pub/step2/mdmOmni_hc_1.02.02.hex
save mib
reset system


Step 3:
Download release 2.xx.xx frequency file and reset system.
copy ftp: /pub/step3/frequency_hc_...
save mib
reset system


Step 4:
Download release 1.04.00 omni, and 1.04.14 mdmOmni, and reset system.
-
copy ftp: /pub/step4/omni_hc_1.04.00.hex
copy ftp: /pub/step4/mdmOmni_hc_1.04.14.hex
save mib
reset system


Step 5:
Down load release 2.xx.xx frequency file and reset system. Enable AAM if
required.
-
copy ftp: /pub/step5/frequency_hc_...
save mib
reset system


-Kristian

On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 11:15 -0700, Kristian Hoffmann wrote:
> They've released several new firmware upgrades in the last 1-2 years,
> and support AAM (that actually works) and hitless-AAM now.  HAAM has
> been great for us with the occasional ducting we get in the valley.  I
> can deal with it dropping from 280MBps to 110Mbps at 6am rather than
> dropping the link completely.  The upgrade is a bit complicated, so I'd
> suggest calling DW before the upgrade and carefully reading the release
> notes.  They've been very helpful every time I've called/emailed.  I
> have a version-by-version outline too, if you're interested.
> 
> -Kristian
> 
> On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 13:15 -0400, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> > Actually, I feel one of the flaws to the Dragonwave is that their
> > clips to the antenna easilly can break if not careful when connecting
> > them.
> > Trango's are much more durable. (actually I'm not talking about the
> > clips, but the metal-like part  that the clips grab). On Andrews these
> > parts are on the antenna side, on Trango they are on the radio side.
> > You can however, buy a replacement plate for the antenna, if they
> > break.
> >  
> > But with that said, my 23Ghz Dragonwave Horizon link has been
> > wonderful, I've never touched it since the day installed, works
> > perfrect.
> > My 24Gzh dragonwave on the other hand, has been a bit more
> > temporamental. I've never gotten full RSSI out of it that path calcs
> > show I should, so run at 50mb instead of 100mb to get quality link,
> > and I have to reboot it every 6 months or so, when it stops passing
> > traffic. We stopped investigating why at somepoint, because it was
> > good enough for the application.  I'm not meaning to bash DW 24Ghz,
> > I've just used one link, so it could be an isolated case. Not enough
> > links to have large enough sampling, to ahve a valid opinion.  (note,
> > I'm aware polarity orientation gets reverse on the opposite side with
> > the DW 24G model)
> >  
> > Personally, I think the "relationship factor" is becomming a bigger
> > factor to what product to buy. I think its important to buy Licensed
> > products from a supplier that you have a good relationship with, and
> > what they stock more of.  When in a bind, who's gonna overnbight you a
> > radio, without charging you inflated list price? (I'll leave it to the
> > buyer, to determine who they have a good relationship with)
> >  
> > Tom DeReggi
> > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >  
> >  
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: Bob Moldashel 
> > To: WISPA General List 
> > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> > 
> > 
> > Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago.  
> > 
> > Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't
> > chase the price point.  I look at who supplies the outstanding
> > support.  I look for the company that has my back when I am up
> > against the wall with a dead link.
> > 
> > And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and
> > their technical/customer support, Drago

Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Brad Belton]

You coordinate two paths.  We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two
radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end.  One
radio set is V the other is H.  Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus
failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for
higher overall availability.

 

Best,

 

Brad

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

 

Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear.  I know
that your PCN strictly states V or H.

The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full
duplex.  Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt  wrote:

How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?
Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both
polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on
the same channel?





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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Tom DeReggi]

I was refering to the Trango having a Combiner option now, that allowed two 
Apexes to share one antenna via 1 horiz and 1 V pol.

 
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Scott Carullo 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops


  Trango does what now too?  


  Scott Carullo
  Technical Operations
  855-FLSPEED x102





--
  From: "Tom DeReggi" 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:40 AM
  To: "WISPA General List" 
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

  Trango also does that now to.

  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: "Alan Bryant" 
  To: "WISPA General List" 
  Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops


  We have been using one Dragonwave 11 ghz link with absolutely no
  problems. It is about 7 miles.

  We are putting up two Nera 11 ghz links right now. One is about 17
  miles, the other about 10 miles. So far the support from Nera is not
  the greatest.

  On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Matt  wrote:
  > We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
  > licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
  > vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
  > Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
  > We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
  > ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
  >
  >
  > 

  > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  > http://signup.wispa.org/
  > 

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  >



  -- 
  Alan Bryant
  Gtek Computers & Wireless L.L.C.
  Office: 361-777-1400 | Fax: 361-777-1405
  a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz

  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication (including any attachments)
  may contain privileged or confidential information intended for a
  specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are
  not the intended recipient, you should delete this communication
  and/or shred the materials and any attachments and are hereby notified
  that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this communication,
  or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. Thank
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Josh Luthman]

Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear.  I know
that your PCN strictly states V or H.

The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full
duplex.  Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt  wrote:

> How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?
> Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both
> polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on
> the same channel?
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Friday Funny

[Justin Wilson]

900 is Voodoo
-- 
Justin Wilson 
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Marco Coelho 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 13:57:55 -0500
To: WISPA General List , 
Subject: [WISPA] Friday Funny

This must be strange propagation month.

We've got a new installer who put a 900 MHz canopy with a yagi pointing to
the south side of one of our towers 6 miles away.  He gets a 56 signal, but
it's really unreliable for some reason.

He goes out there again to re-sight, same issues after a couple of days.

I happen to look at the map for this customer.  Whoa He is being shot to
the BACK SIDE of a motorola 60° panel 900 MHz AP.  56 Signal from 6 miles
away 180° out

This 900 is there for spot application only.  Never intended for over 3 mile
shots, especially in the opposite direction!

I need a beer.



-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036






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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Matt]

How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?
Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both
polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on
the same channel?



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[WISPA] Friday Funny

[Marco Coelho]

This must be strange propagation month.

We've got a new installer who put a 900 MHz canopy with a yagi pointing to
the south side of one of our towers 6 miles away.  He gets a 56 signal, but
it's really unreliable for some reason.

He goes out there again to re-sight, same issues after a couple of days.

I happen to look at the map for this customer.  Whoa He is being shot to
the BACK SIDE of a motorola 60° panel 900 MHz AP.  56 Signal from 6 miles
away 180° out

This 900 is there for spot application only.  Never intended for over 3 mile
shots, especially in the opposite direction!

I need a beer.



-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036



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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Matt Jenkins]

If you want to leverage dual pol with XPIC you could look at Dragonwave 
quantum.

On 11/04/2010 02:20 PM, Matt wrote:
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
> Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>   We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Scott Carullo]

Trango does what now too?  

Scott Carullo
Technical Operations
855-FLSPEED x102



From: "Tom DeReggi" 
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:40 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

Trango also does that now to.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - 
From: "Alan Bryant" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

We have been using one Dragonwave 11 ghz link with absolutely no
problems. It is about 7 miles.

We are putting up two Nera 11 ghz links right now. One is about 17
miles, the other about 10 miles. So far the support from Nera is not
the greatest.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Matt  wrote:
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>
>
> 


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-- 
Alan Bryant
Gtek Computers & Wireless L.L.C.
Office: 361-777-1400 | Fax: 361-777-1405
a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz

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Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[Scott Carullo]

The key to this thread is NS2 - Not NSM2

They are different and the power supplies they can operate of are also 
different...  some NS2's will not work with 24v.  Just fyi...

Scott Carullo
Technical Operations
855-FLSPEED x102



From: "Tom DeReggi" 
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:27 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

Well, considering it ships with 24V UBNT PS,  yes it supports 24V
Should use regulated PS, to make sure stays under 25V.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Hensley" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:28 AM
Subject: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

> Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?
>
>
>
> 


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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Kristian Hoffmann]

They've released several new firmware upgrades in the last 1-2 years,
and support AAM (that actually works) and hitless-AAM now.  HAAM has
been great for us with the occasional ducting we get in the valley.  I
can deal with it dropping from 280MBps to 110Mbps at 6am rather than
dropping the link completely.  The upgrade is a bit complicated, so I'd
suggest calling DW before the upgrade and carefully reading the release
notes.  They've been very helpful every time I've called/emailed.  I
have a version-by-version outline too, if you're interested.

-Kristian

On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 13:15 -0400, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Actually, I feel one of the flaws to the Dragonwave is that their
> clips to the antenna easilly can break if not careful when connecting
> them.
> Trango's are much more durable. (actually I'm not talking about the
> clips, but the metal-like part  that the clips grab). On Andrews these
> parts are on the antenna side, on Trango they are on the radio side.
> You can however, buy a replacement plate for the antenna, if they
> break.
>  
> But with that said, my 23Ghz Dragonwave Horizon link has been
> wonderful, I've never touched it since the day installed, works
> perfrect.
> My 24Gzh dragonwave on the other hand, has been a bit more
> temporamental. I've never gotten full RSSI out of it that path calcs
> show I should, so run at 50mb instead of 100mb to get quality link,
> and I have to reboot it every 6 months or so, when it stops passing
> traffic. We stopped investigating why at somepoint, because it was
> good enough for the application.  I'm not meaning to bash DW 24Ghz,
> I've just used one link, so it could be an isolated case. Not enough
> links to have large enough sampling, to ahve a valid opinion.  (note,
> I'm aware polarity orientation gets reverse on the opposite side with
> the DW 24G model)
>  
> Personally, I think the "relationship factor" is becomming a bigger
> factor to what product to buy. I think its important to buy Licensed
> products from a supplier that you have a good relationship with, and
> what they stock more of.  When in a bind, who's gonna overnbight you a
> radio, without charging you inflated list price? (I'll leave it to the
> buyer, to determine who they have a good relationship with)
>  
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>  
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: Bob Moldashel 
> To: WISPA General List 
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> 
> 
> Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago.  
> 
> Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't
> chase the price point.  I look at who supplies the outstanding
> support.  I look for the company that has my back when I am up
> against the wall with a dead link.
> 
> And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and
> their technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of
> choice for licensed microwave. Radio clips to the antenna,
> POE, simple interface, easy equipment replacement.  
> 
> And most importantly.  the sh*t works!  
> 
> I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a
> Dragonwave radio to make it work right. I can't say that for
> many of the other manufacturers and I have installed a lot of
> different equipment over the years.
> 
> -B-
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 
> > The air must be different there.  I can't stand Ceragon
> > stuff.  Nothing but problems.  Zero support.  The firmware
> > is terrible as is the interface.
> > 
> > On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton" 
> > wrote:
> > > Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in
> > service since early 2008 among several others since then
> > with great service. The few times we’ve needed Trango
> > support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I think we also have one of the first if not the first
> > 18GHz GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We’ll be
> > hanging three more Trango Giga’s & Apex’s in the next few
> > weeks. We have always been early adopters of
> > Sunstream/Trango equipment.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and
> > PCOM licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz,
> > 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the
> > Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Best,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
>   

Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Bill Gaylord]

No Coax, the radio mounts directly to the antenna.  I will climb myself 
and re-peak the vertical alignment Monday.  Thanks Tom.

Bill

On 11/5/2010 1:25 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> My opinion is that the dish  damage probably would not cause much RSSI loss.
> (unless severe, but if it was severe I'm sure you never would ahve installed
> it). If part of the dish was bent, you'd need to determine what percentage
> of teh surface area was effected not reflecting to the correct point.  Most
> likely antenna is not the problem.
>
> Wireless links need to be aligned both Horizontally and Vertically. If you
> did not fine tune alignment vertically on both sides, you need to. Sometimes
> it takes doing it twice on one side, such as A, then B, then A, to get a
> good alignment.
>
> Also, I did not catch whether you were using Coax SPlit archetecture model
> or Ethernet Integrated model.
> If Coax model, a bad connector crimp can easilly cause a 10db RSSI
> degregation.
> Never trust a connector just by Visual inspection, if you are not getting
> correct RSSI.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bill Gaylord"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:12 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
>
>
>
>> I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than
>> the link budget says it should.  I sent tower climbers up to repeak the
>> link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.
>> After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the
>> link budget.  It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.
>> They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though
>> both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical
>> side lobe.  Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I
>> don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not
>> a quick to do as on the horizontal.  They are both plum, but the
>> antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles.  Would
>> difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe?  I am asking
>> because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to
>> just be where the raydom attached to the dish.  Dragonwave did not think
>> this would cause an issue.  I just need to know if I need to pay for 2
>> more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to
>> return them.  Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given
>> here.  By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first
>> experience with anything above 5ghz.
>>
>> Bill Gaylord, President
>> COLI Inc.
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
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>>  
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Tom DeReggi]

My opinion is that the dish  damage probably would not cause much RSSI loss. 
(unless severe, but if it was severe I'm sure you never would ahve installed 
it). If part of the dish was bent, you'd need to determine what percentage 
of teh surface area was effected not reflecting to the correct point.  Most 
likely antenna is not the problem.

Wireless links need to be aligned both Horizontally and Vertically. If you 
did not fine tune alignment vertically on both sides, you need to. Sometimes 
it takes doing it twice on one side, such as A, then B, then A, to get a 
good alignment.

Also, I did not catch whether you were using Coax SPlit archetecture model 
or Ethernet Integrated model.
If Coax model, a bad connector crimp can easilly cause a 10db RSSI 
degregation.
Never trust a connector just by Visual inspection, if you are not getting 
correct RSSI.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Bill Gaylord" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice


>I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than
> the link budget says it should.  I sent tower climbers up to repeak the
> link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.
> After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the
> link budget.  It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.
> They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though
> both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical
> side lobe.  Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I
> don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not
> a quick to do as on the horizontal.  They are both plum, but the
> antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles.  Would
> difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe?  I am asking
> because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to
> just be where the raydom attached to the dish.  Dragonwave did not think
> this would cause an issue.  I just need to know if I need to pay for 2
> more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to
> return them.  Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given
> here.  By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first
> experience with anything above 5ghz.
>
> Bill Gaylord, President
> COLI Inc.
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Bill Gaylord]

It is the horizon 150Mbps.

Bill Gaylord, President
COLI Inc.

On 11/5/2010 12:28 PM, Bob Moldashel wrote:

Bill

You can bang the physical dish up pretty good and not need to worry. 
The feedhorn is the most critical unit.  Which Dragonwave radio are 
you using?


/Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless/


-Original message-

*From: *Brad Belton *
To: *'WISPA General List' *
Sent: *Fri, Nov 5, 2010 13:38:55 GMT+00:00*
Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

15-20db off typically means cross polarization. Have you double
and triple
checked they are both on the same polarity?

Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Gaylord
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:13 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower
than the
link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the
link and
found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.
After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower
than the link
budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.
They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even
though both
antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical
side lobe.
Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't
know if they
did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do
as on the
horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of
vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put
them in into
a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come
slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom
attached to
the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I
just need
to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the
vertical, or
take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any
advice
that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link,
so it is
my first experience with anything above 5ghz.

Bill Gaylord, President
COLI Inc.




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Tom DeReggi]

Actually, I feel one of the flaws to the Dragonwave is that their clips to the 
antenna easilly can break if not careful when connecting them.
Trango's are much more durable. (actually I'm not talking about the clips, but 
the metal-like part  that the clips grab). On Andrews these parts are on the 
antenna side, on Trango they are on the radio side.
You can however, buy a replacement plate for the antenna, if they break.

But with that said, my 23Ghz Dragonwave Horizon link has been wonderful, I've 
never touched it since the day installed, works perfrect.
My 24Gzh dragonwave on the other hand, has been a bit more temporamental. I've 
never gotten full RSSI out of it that path calcs show I should, so run at 50mb 
instead of 100mb to get quality link, and I have to reboot it every 6 months or 
so, when it stops passing traffic. We stopped investigating why at somepoint, 
because it was good enough for the application.  I'm not meaning to bash DW 
24Ghz, I've just used one link, so it could be an isolated case. Not enough 
links to have large enough sampling, to ahve a valid opinion.  (note, I'm aware 
polarity orientation gets reverse on the opposite side with the DW 24G model)

Personally, I think the "relationship factor" is becomming a bigger factor to 
what product to buy. I think its important to buy Licensed products from a 
supplier that you have a good relationship with, and what they stock more of.  
When in a bind, who's gonna overnbight you a radio, without charging you 
inflated list price? (I'll leave it to the buyer, to determine who they have a 
good relationship with)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Bob Moldashel 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops


  Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago.  

  Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the price 
point.  I look at who supplies the outstanding support.  I look for the company 
that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link.

  And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their 
technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for licensed 
microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, easy equipment 
replacement.  

  And most importantly.  the sh*t works!  

  I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave radio 
to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other manufacturers and 
I have installed a lot of different equipment over the years.

  -B-



  On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 
The air must be different there.  I can't stand Ceragon stuff.  Nothing but 
problems.  Zero support.  The firmware is terrible as is the interface.

On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
> Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since 
early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times 
we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. 
> 
> 
> 
> I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in 
service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s & Apex’s 
in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango 
equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed 
gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on 
our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> 
> 
> 
> We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 
18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Blake Covarrubias
> 
> 
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
> 
> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM 
they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, 
They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of 
performance, And management.
> 
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations 
> 
> (855) FLSPEED x106
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ 
> 
> 
> From: "David E. Smith" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licens

Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Tom DeReggi]

About the same pricing, can mean a lot of things. About the same pricing 
could mean a $1000 difference.
With Trango, the upgrade key doesn;t cost much more than that.

Allthough always good to see new products entered into the market.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops


> I'm not sure of it's complete specifications, but Proxim just came out
> with a licensed product.  GX800, I believe.  I forget which booth I was
> at (MoonBlink, maybe) where they told me that the Proxim is about the
> same price point as the other licensed products out there, only there
> are no license keys.  It comes full speed (311 each direction) out of
> the box.
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> On 11/4/2010 4:20 PM, Matt wrote:
>> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
>> licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
>> vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
>> Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>>   We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
>> ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Bob Moldashel]

Bill

You can bang the physical dish up pretty good and not need to worry. The  
feedhorn is the most critical unit.  Which Dragonwave radio are you using?


Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Brad Belton 
To: 'WISPA General List' 
Sent: Fri, Nov 5, 2010 13:38:55 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

15-20db off typically means cross polarization.  Have you double and triple
checked they are both on the same polarity?

Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Gaylord
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:13 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the
link budget says it should.  I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and
found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.  
After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link
budget.  It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.  
They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both

antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe.
Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they
did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the
horizontal.  They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of
vertical separation at 5 miles.  Would difference in height put them in into
a vertical side lobe?  I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come
slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to
the dish.  Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue.  I just need
to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or
take down the dishes to return them.  Thank you in advance for any advice
that can be given here.  By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is
my first experience with anything above 5ghz.

Bill Gaylord, President
COLI Inc.




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Chuck Bartosch]

I'll hazard a guess here that Radwin was OEMing boxes from Ceragon at the time 
then. That's like me complaining about Redline if I had problems with 
Alvarion's old "Link Blaster", which was an OEM'd Redline point-to-point 
product. If I bought it from Alvarion and didn't get support, then it's 
Alvarion's problem, not Redline's. (For the record here, we were perfectly 
happy with the Link Blaster-just using that as an example). It wouldn't be 
right or fair for me to sling mud at Redline for it, especially *years* later.

We all get a bug up our butts about something or another, but I think its bad 
practice if nothing else to go out of your way to hurt a company you never even 
bought anything from (remember, your main problem was with the "zero support", 
which was a Radwin issue, not a Ceragon issue) when those of us who actually 
have experience buying from the company seem to be quite happy.

Either way, your experience was from years ago. We all know companies go 
through problems at times. If they fix them, great. If not, they'll pay the 
price in the marketplace. And if you had current, direct experiences to report, 
that's useful information. But it's worth it to give even companies that have 
messed up a chance to prove they can fix themselves.

I'd defend Redline the same way if the circumstances were similar.

Chuck



On Nov 5, 2010, at 12:15 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> Says Ceragon on the boxes.
> 
> They appear identical in hardware and software to the Radwins we bought with
> the company.  Just FYI.
> On Nov 5, 2010 12:03 AM, "Chuck Bartosch"  wrote:
>> To be honest Josh, didn't you tell me your problems were with what was at
> one time a sister company, Radwin, and not Ceragon? Yet you call the company
> "Ceragon" when you've told me it was really Radwin. It really isn't fair to
> be tarring and feathering Ceragon due to the problems with Radwin-which was
> years ago and not even the same company.
>> 
>> Ceragon products in the licensed sphere are _strictly_ Ceragon designed
> and manufactured (I followed up on this the last time you were panning
> Ceragon so I could independently understand the situation). They are not
> even OEM'd from Radwin. Ceragon is an independent, publicly traded company.
> It was *started*, years ago by the same investment group that started
> Radwin.
>> 
>> For the record, we've been quite happy with Ceragon's products. The
> interface hasn't been a problem, but like Brad, I believe we tend to use the
> telnet interface. I've also been happy with Alvarion and Ubiquity in the
> unlicensed space. I have no personal interest in any of these companies, but
> don't think it's fair to malign a manufacturer when you don't actually have
> any experience with them as far as I can tell. When you did have problems it
> was with a related company, not this company, it was years ago (things DO
> change), and this company at least is no longer even a "sister" company (in
> the sense at least that it is now publicly traded).
>> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>> 
>>> The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but
>>> problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface.
>>> On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
 Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since
>>> early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few
> times
>>> we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and
> helpful.
>>> 
 
 
 
 I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in
>>> service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s &
>>> Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of
>>> Sunstream/Trango equipment.
 
 
 
 We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed
>>> gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz
> on
>>> our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our
>>> favorites.
 
 
 
 Best,
 
 
 
 
 
 Brad
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
 Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
 
 
 
 We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz,
>>> 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
 
 
 --
 
 Blake Covarrubias
 
 
 On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
 
 I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM
> they
>>> will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
 .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far,
>>> They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In
> te

Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Bill Gaylord]

OK, I will try the Vertical Alignment again to see if it is on a 
vertical side lobe.  I will give that a try next week and see what 
happens.  Thanks.

Bill Gaylord, President
COLI Inc.

On 11/5/2010 9:37 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> Sounds like a side lobe...we had the same issue...link was coming in
> at -70...link budget said -50...finally got it out of the side lobe
> and within 1-2 dB of the link path.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bill Gaylord  wrote:
>
>> I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than
>> the link budget says it should.  I sent tower climbers up to repeak the
>> link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.
>> After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the
>> link budget.  It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.
>> They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though
>> both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical
>> side lobe.  Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I
>> don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not
>> a quick to do as on the horizontal.  They are both plum, but the
>> antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles.  Would
>> difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe?  I am asking
>> because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to
>> just be where the raydom attached to the dish.  Dragonwave did not think
>> this would cause an issue.  I just need to know if I need to pay for 2
>> more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to
>> return them.  Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given
>> here.  By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first
>> experience with anything above 5ghz.
>>
>> Bill Gaylord, President
>> COLI Inc.
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
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>>
>>  
>
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Bill Gaylord]

Yes, I have.  Thanks.  That is the same thing I had though of the first 
time around.

Bill Gaylord, President
COLI Inc.

On 11/5/2010 9:38 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
> 15-20db off typically means cross polarization.  Have you double and triple
> checked they are both on the same polarity?
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Bill Gaylord
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:13 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
>
> I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the
> link budget says it should.  I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and
> found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.
> After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link
> budget.  It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.
> They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both
> antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe.
> Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they
> did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the
> horizontal.  They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of
> vertical separation at 5 miles.  Would difference in height put them in into
> a vertical side lobe?  I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come
> slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to
> the dish.  Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue.  I just need
> to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or
> take down the dishes to return them.  Thank you in advance for any advice
> that can be given here.  By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is
> my first experience with anything above 5ghz.
>
> Bill Gaylord, President
> COLI Inc.
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Josh Luthman]

I can't memorize the weird model numbers.  It was installed probably 5 or 6
years ago.  It had an arp bug they took at year and two on site trips to
fix.

I could recognize them if you had pictures.
On Nov 5, 2010 9:39 AM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
> That was my next reply to Josh.what series or model of Ceragon has he
used.
> All our Ceragon links have been the older Fibeair 1500 series. There were
a
> few re-branded versions of this radio for Nortel and maybe another name
too.
> I think even Lockheed or General Dynamics had these relabeled under their
> name.
>
>
>
> Agreed, while price is always important we feel a solid product with good
> support is paramount. While Trango may have had some early firmware issues
> they have been responsive and resolved any issues that resulted in a down
> link situation.
>
> Best,
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 7:50 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>
>
>
> Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago.
>
> Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the
price
> point. I look at who supplies the outstanding support. I look for the
> company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link.
>
> And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their
> technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for
licensed
> microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, easy
equipment
> replacement.
>
> And most importantly. the sh*t works!
>
> I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave
radio
> to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other
manufacturers
> and I have installed a lot of different equipment over the years.
>
> -B-
>
>
>
> On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but
> problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface.
>
> On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
>> Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since
> early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few
times
> we've needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and
helpful.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in
> service too since mid 2007. We'll be hanging three more Trango Giga's &
> Apex's in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of
> Sunstream/Trango equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed
> gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz
on
> our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our
> favorites.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>>
>>
>>
>> We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz,
> 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Blake Covarrubias
>>
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
>>
>> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM
they
> will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
>> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far,
> They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In
terms
> of performance, And management.
>>
>> Nick Olsen
>> Network Operations
>>
>> (855) FLSPEED x106
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _
>>
>>
>> From: "David E. Smith" 
>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:
>>
>> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
>> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
>> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
>> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
>> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>>
>>
>>
>> How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big
> enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's
> software), do something like 300Mbps.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Smith
>>
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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> 
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Josh Luthman]

Are you at full tx power or full modulation?  256qam will take out something
like 7dbm.
On Nov 5, 2010 9:12 AM, "Bill Gaylord"  wrote:
> I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than
> the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the
> link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.
> After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the
> link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.
> They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though
> both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical
> side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I
> don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not
> a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the
> antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would
> difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking
> because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to
> just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think
> this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2
> more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to
> return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given
> here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first
> experience with anything above 5ghz.
>
> Bill Gaylord, President
> COLI Inc.
>
>
>

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>

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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Brad Belton]

That was my next reply to Josh.what series or model of Ceragon has he used.
All our Ceragon links have been the older Fibeair 1500 series.  There were a
few re-branded versions of this radio for Nortel and maybe another name too.
I think even Lockheed or General Dynamics had these relabeled under their
name.

 

Agreed, while price is always important we feel a solid product with good
support is paramount.  While Trango may have had some early firmware issues
they have been responsive and resolved any issues that resulted in a down
link situation.

Best,

 

 

Brad

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 7:50 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

 

Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago.  

Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the price
point.  I look at who supplies the outstanding support.  I look for the
company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link.

And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their
technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for licensed
microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, easy equipment
replacement.  

And most importantly.  the sh*t works!  

I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave radio
to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other manufacturers
and I have installed a lot of different equipment over the years.

-B-



On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 

The air must be different there.  I can't stand Ceragon stuff.  Nothing but
problems.  Zero support.  The firmware is terrible as is the interface.

On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
> Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since
early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times
we've needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful.

> 
> 
> 
> I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in
service too since mid 2007. We'll be hanging three more Trango Giga's &
Apex's in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of
Sunstream/Trango equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed
gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on
our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our
favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> 
> 
> 
> We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz,
18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Blake Covarrubias
> 
> 
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
> 
> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they
will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far,
They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms
of performance, And management.
> 
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations 
> 
> (855) FLSPEED x106
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ 
> 
> 
> From: "David E. Smith" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:
> 
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
> 
> 
> 
> How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big
enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's
software), do something like 300Mbps. 
> 
> 
> 
> David Smith
> 
> MVN.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


> 
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> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> 

 
 
 
 


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---

Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Brad Belton]

15-20db off typically means cross polarization.  Have you double and triple
checked they are both on the same polarity?

Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Gaylord
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:13 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the
link budget says it should.  I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and
found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.  
After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link
budget.  It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.  
They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both
antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe.
Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they
did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the
horizontal.  They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of
vertical separation at 5 miles.  Would difference in height put them in into
a vertical side lobe?  I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come
slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to
the dish.  Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue.  I just need
to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or
take down the dishes to return them.  Thank you in advance for any advice
that can be given here.  By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is
my first experience with anything above 5ghz.

Bill Gaylord, President
COLI Inc.




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Chuck Hogg]

Sounds like a side lobe...we had the same issue...link was coming in
at -70...link budget said -50...finally got it out of the side lobe
and within 1-2 dB of the link path.

Regards,
Chuck



On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bill Gaylord  wrote:
> I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than
> the link budget says it should.  I sent tower climbers up to repeak the
> link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.
> After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the
> link budget.  It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.
> They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though
> both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical
> side lobe.  Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I
> don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not
> a quick to do as on the horizontal.  They are both plum, but the
> antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles.  Would
> difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe?  I am asking
> because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to
> just be where the raydom attached to the dish.  Dragonwave did not think
> this would cause an issue.  I just need to know if I need to pay for 2
> more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to
> return them.  Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given
> here.  By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first
> experience with anything above 5ghz.
>
> Bill Gaylord, President
> COLI Inc.
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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[WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice

[Bill Gaylord]

I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than 
the link budget says it should.  I sent tower climbers up to repeak the 
link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe.  
After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the 
link budget.  It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34.  
They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though 
both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical 
side lobe.  Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I 
don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not 
a quick to do as on the horizontal.  They are both plum, but the 
antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles.  Would 
difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe?  I am asking 
because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to 
just be where the raydom attached to the dish.  Dragonwave did not think 
this would cause an issue.  I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 
more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to 
return them.  Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given 
here.  By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first 
experience with anything above 5ghz.

Bill Gaylord, President
COLI Inc.



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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not sure of it's complete specifications, but Proxim just came out 
with a licensed product.  GX800, I believe.  I forget which booth I was 
at (MoonBlink, maybe) where they told me that the Proxim is about the 
same price point as the other licensed products out there, only there 
are no license keys.  It comes full speed (311 each direction) out of 
the box.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/4/2010 4:20 PM, Matt wrote:
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
> Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>   We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Bob Moldashel]

Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago.

Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the 
price point.  I look at who supplies the outstanding support.  I look 
for the company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a 
dead link.


And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their 
technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for 
licensed microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, 
easy equipment replacement.


And most importantly.  the sh*t works!

I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave 
radio to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other 
manufacturers and I have installed a lot of different equipment over the 
years.


-B-



On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


The air must be different there.  I can't stand Ceragon stuff.  
Nothing but problems.  Zero support.  The firmware is terrible as is 
the interface.


On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton" > wrote:
> Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service 
since early 2008 among several others since then with great service. 
The few times we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely 
responsive and helpful.

>
>
>
> I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz 
GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more 
Trango Giga’s & Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been 
early adopters of Sunstream/Trango equipment.

>
>
>
> We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM 
licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz 
and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon 
links are our favorites.

>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org  
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias

> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>
>
>
> We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 
11ghz, 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has 
been great.

>
>
> --
>
> Blake Covarrubias
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen" > wrote:

>
> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 
256QAM they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So 
far, They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working 
with. In terms of performance, And management.

>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations
>
> (855) FLSPEED x106
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> _
>
>
> From: "David E. Smith" mailto:d...@mvn.net>>
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" >

> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt > wrote:

>
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>
>
>
> How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have 
big enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for 
Trango's software), do something like 300Mbps.

>
>
>
> David Smith
>
> MVN.net
>
>
>
>
>
> 


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 


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>
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Paolo Di Francesco]

Hi Gino,

what is missing from SAF compared to DW and Trango?

I will take a look to the documents, but you know "manuals don't tell
the whole story" ;)

Thank you

> WE are happy with SAF, DW and Trango  all have diff pricepoints,
> overall winner on dollar/ value is SAF
> 
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> 787.273.4143
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> 
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
> Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>  We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
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> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
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>  
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> 


-- 


Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

Teleinform s.r.l.
Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
Fax: +39-091-6406200

http://www.wikitel.it
http://www.teleinform.com






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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Gino Villarini]

WE are happy with SAF, DW and Trango  all have diff pricepoints,
overall winner on dollar/ value is SAF

Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
787.273.4143

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
 We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.




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