Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[George Skorup]

The easiest way to tell is obviously to take the SS out and see if the 
errors stop. And as Chuck has said in the past, an SS can get wounded. 
Definitely seen that. In fact, just the other day I had two 450 sectors 
with link losses, falling back to 10Mbps, etc. and quite a lot of 
errors. Took the Rev D SS's out and the errors were gone. Replaced them 
with new Rev E's I happened to have in my truck and they're running fine 
(100Mbps and Canopy sync). The Rev D's did their job.


On 6/9/2018 4:42 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
They are Chuck's suppressors and I'm pretty sure they are an older 
revision as well, so that could be a contributing factor.


On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:14 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Guess I should correct my grammar and say which suppressor(s)?

And follow that up with the assumption that you're using Chuck's
suppressors? The only one that produced no errors for me is the
CAT6-APC which is just gas tubes, no diodes. He asked me to test
one more thing with the Rev G GigE-APC, but I just haven't had the
time to get out to a site and do it.

I am using some Rev D and E GigE-APCs on Canopy and ePMP at
100Mbps and sync pulses present and those work fine. Gigabit is
the real pain in the ass. Gigabit + Canopy sync is even more of a
pain in the ass. I've got old Rev A (or B? I don't remember)
GigE-APCs and GigE-POE-APCs that work fine at gigabit and no sync
pulse, mostly AirFibers and some Exalt radios on those.

The CAT6-APC is probably what we'll move forward with for
everything since it'll be the most universal and offer decent
protection. Actually probably better than decent. I think Chuck
said the clamp voltage is around 90-100 volts. The cheap stuff
might die, but it's cheap so who cares.


On 6/9/2018 3:58 PM, George Skorup wrote:

What suppressors?

On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting
hundreds of Rx FCS errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running
gigabit, if I force it to 100 fdx, the Rx FCS errors stop,
but Rx Code errors start incrementing instead.  I've
always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa
A5/A5C units, but not nearly this many.  It's starting to
have an effect on service on the sector.

Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were
claiming that putting something like a Netonix in between
the Mimosa and the Mikrotik solved their issues, but I'm
wondering if the surge suppressors are creating an issue
as well.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[George Skorup]

Guess I should correct my grammar and say which suppressor(s)?

And follow that up with the assumption that you're using Chuck's 
suppressors? The only one that produced no errors for me is the CAT6-APC 
which is just gas tubes, no diodes. He asked me to test one more thing 
with the Rev G GigE-APC, but I just haven't had the time to get out to a 
site and do it.


I am using some Rev D and E GigE-APCs on Canopy and ePMP at 100Mbps and 
sync pulses present and those work fine. Gigabit is the real pain in the 
ass. Gigabit + Canopy sync is even more of a pain in the ass. I've got 
old Rev A (or B? I don't remember) GigE-APCs and GigE-POE-APCs that work 
fine at gigabit and no sync pulse, mostly AirFibers and some Exalt 
radios on those.


The CAT6-APC is probably what we'll move forward with for everything 
since it'll be the most universal and offer decent protection. Actually 
probably better than decent. I think Chuck said the clamp voltage is 
around 90-100 volts. The cheap stuff might die, but it's cheap so who cares.


On 6/9/2018 3:58 PM, George Skorup wrote:

What suppressors?

On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS 
errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 
fdx, the Rx FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing 
instead.  I've always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa 
A5/A5C units, but not nearly this many.  It's starting to have an 
effect on service on the sector.


Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that 
putting something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the 
Mikrotik solved their issues, but I'm wondering if the surge 
suppressors are creating an issue as well.


-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[George Skorup]

What suppressors?

On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS 
errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 
fdx, the Rx FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing 
instead.  I've always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa 
A5/A5C units, but not nearly this many.  It's starting to have an 
effect on service on the sector.


Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that 
putting something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the 
Mikrotik solved their issues, but I'm wondering if the surge 
suppressors are creating an issue as well.


-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[George Skorup]

Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 
450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.


On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:


I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device like this help you in your network?


Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� 
It�s only 16 questions.


Matt

*From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Ray Savich
*Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
*To:* 'af@afmug.com' 
*Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP 
 



Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum 

Re: [AFMUG] Epmp vs 450 - DFS events

[George Skorup]

My experience is exactly the opposite here. ePMP seems more sensitive to 
DFS events. By far.


On 5/30/2018 12:25 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
Anyone noticed that apparently the Epmp radios are less prone to DFS 
events? Im assuming most are false caused by RF interference, but I 
see way less events on Epmp than on 450� Will have to do a side by 
side study.


*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber end problem - dealing with SC

[George Skorup]

I once robbed some SC couplers out of one of our AT hand-offs panel to 
fix a problem. Gotta do what ya gotta do.


You get more precise alignment with the blue guys, but if all you can 
get are the grey ones, and it's only a few feet or a couple hundred feet 
like up a tower, they'll work fine for single-mode.


On 5/20/2018 10:20 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

It's blue yellow single mode 1310.

I think you're simply suggesting an SC coupler and SC to LC patch, right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sat, May 19, 2018, 11:23 PM Faisal Imtiaz > wrote:


don't know what type of fiber you are working with .. select one
of these appropriately


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlc+to+sc+fiber+cable.TRS0&_nkw=lc+to+sc+fiber+cable&_sacat=0


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xsc+to+sc+adapter.TRS0&_nkw=sc+to+sc+adapter&_sacat=0_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=lc+to+sc+fiber+cable

be aware.. the color of the connectors do have a purpose and a
meaning...
if you are working with Multimode  fiber, stay with grey
connectors (orange or aqua cable)
if you are working with Singlemode fiber, stay with blue
connectors (yellow cable)
if your fibercable has green ends, then do the green end /green
connector...

Regards.


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Josh Luthman" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Saturday, May 19, 2018 10:16:16 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Fiber end problem - dealing with SC

High level:  I need to turn these SC into copper ports.
Right now I'm using an SC media converter and wanting to do
another pair.  It's going to be a week or longer to get
another SC media converter.

My next thought was to use some sort of SC to LC adapters - is
there anything I can find at a store nearby that would work
here (I'm near Dayton/Columbus/Cincinnati/Indy) and pick up
tomorrow possibly?

Any other ideas/suggestions?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] KP Performance KPPA-900DPY14

[George Skorup]

Yup. 14 to 17 is just double the boom length.

On 5/15/2018 1:05 PM, David Sovereen wrote:

Are you saying the 17 is just a 14 with an additional piece?

*David Sovereen*
**
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax
Telephone * | *Internet*  | *Security Alarm Monitoring
david.sover...@mercury.net 
www.mercury.net 


On May 15, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Jerry Head > wrote:


We just order the 17s and use the back half of itthen ride back 
out later to put up the other half because...900.


On 5/15/2018 10:23 AM, David Sovereen wrote:

Hi All,

I’m looking for vendors that have these in stock.  My usual supplier 
drop ships from KP and KP is out of stock.


Vendors stocking these (or WISPs who have extra that they don’t want 
or need) are welcome to contact me off-list.


Thanks,

*David Sovereen*
**
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
Telephone * | *Internet*  | *Security Alarm Monitoring
david.sover...@mercury.net 
www.mercury.net 

Re: [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?

[George Skorup]

If SNMP write is enabled, snmpset script?

On 5/15/2018 12:15 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
That the point, I want to mass update all Apps with the cN Maestro url 
and also need to ad ip dns


From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on 
behalf of George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

Date: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 at 1:06 PM
To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?

Y u no cnMaestro, bro?

Unless you're talking FSK, then.. yeah.

*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On 5/15/2018 12:01 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Got any documentation on it?�1�2

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on 
behalf of Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

Date: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 at 12:10 PM
To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?

*//*�1�2

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Many years ago, did it all the time.�1�2
�1�2
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 15, 2018 10:00 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?
�1�2
Anyone has experience doing mass changes in CNUT?

*//*�1�2

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Re: [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?

[George Skorup]

Y u no cnMaestro, bro?

Unless you're talking FSK, then.. yeah.

On 5/15/2018 12:01 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Got any documentation on it?

From: Af > on 
behalf of Chuck McCown >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com " >

Date: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 at 12:10 PM
To: "af@afmug.com " >

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?

*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Many years ago, did it all the time.
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 15, 2018 10:00 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?
Anyone has experience doing mass changes in CNUT?

*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[George Skorup]

ply through the green POE injector, forgot
to mention that.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 8:14 PM, George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

Funny story if you were using ePMP near
the beginning. Some of the first original
5GHz integrated radios had labels marked
56VDC. They were definitely NOT capable of
being powered from 48/56V. Somebody
screwed up.

Yeah. We've run Force180/200 survey setups
on a small 12V SLA too. It works, but
they're rated at 14 volts. Same with the
100 and 450 SMs. Still works. However, I
recall the regulator is very inefficient
down that low. Like the old 320 and 430
APs could be run on 24VDC, but you really
didn't want to do that, and
Motorola/Cambium said it was completely
unsupported.


On 5/6/2018 5:13 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I had a portable 12V battery that I
would use for site surveys with the
old PMP100. I'm pretty sure they would
function in the 8-10V region.

I know nothing about the ePMP radios.
Trust George.


        bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 5/6/2018 2:33 PM, George Skorup wrote:

Original 5GHz integrated and
connectorized are 14-30VDC, -4/5
+7/8 only.







-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux

Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside
Road, Helena, MT 59602

<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com> |
http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
<http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>







-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
59602

<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com> |
http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
<http://facebook.com/packetflux> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Looking for Trango 11GHz ODU

[George Skorup]

Thanks, but don't bother. We're probably just going to replace that link 
with AF-11's or something.


On 5/14/2018 6:34 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Let me check

On 5/14/18, 3:16 PM, "Af on behalf of George Skorup" <af-boun...@afmug.com

*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

on behalf of george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

>Anybody have a Trango ApexPlus-11 or even GigaPlus ODU that's sub-band 6
>Tx high? I opened a ticket with Trango a couple hours ago to see if we
>could get a refurb'd ODU, but they haven't responded yet. I've already
>asked locally, nobody has anything.



___
Members mailing list
memb...@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members

[AFMUG] Looking for Trango 11GHz ODU

[George Skorup]

Anybody have a Trango ApexPlus-11 or even GigaPlus ODU that's sub-band 6 
Tx high? I opened a ticket with Trango a couple hours ago to see if we 
could get a refurb'd ODU, but they haven't responded yet. I've already 
asked locally, nobody has anything.

Re: [AFMUG] 24Ghz distance

[George Skorup]

Got two PTP550 connectorized links up. Single 40MHz channels, no 
bonding. 75/25 TDD split. Getting random session drops on 4.1.1-RC1. 
Slave GUI stops responding under heavy traffic (pushing about 175 
downlink). Going to try RC4 later today if I have time and see what happens.


On 5/14/2018 12:34 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
They’ve made a major software update, but all the bells and whistles 
aren’t there yet.


Jeff Broadwick
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 

On May 14, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Dave > wrote:


Has anyone deployed the new cambium ptp550 radio yet? if so what are 
you seeing?



On 05/14/2018 10:05 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yes, you can get 2-ish miles out of 24ghz reasonably well, but I 
wouldn't go anywhere near that far with a Mimosa B24 link - keep in 
mind that these are tiny antennas, not 2' dishes like you can get 
with some of the other radios out there.


I haven't used a B24 yet, but I don't think I'd want to try anything 
much beyond a mile with them.


On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Sean Heskett > wrote:


Max is 2-ish Miles.

SAF has freemile and integra 24ghz radios too

-Sean

On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 7:20 PM Andreas Wiatowski
> wrote:

Hi all,

It’s been a while since I’ve posted. Wondering who has used
the Mimosa 24Ghz product in a heavy rain zone. What is your
max distance? I really wish Cambium had a 24Ghz option!

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO

Silo Wireless Inc.

1-866-727-4138 x-600

http://silo.ca

Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

Silo is a Proud Member of:

CanWISP http://www.canwisp.ca

WISPA http://wispa.org

Brantford Brant Chamber of Commerce

Paris Chamber of Commerce

Cambridge Chamber of Commerce

_

The contents of this email message and any attachments are
intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain
confidential and/or privileged information and may be
legally protected from disclosure. If you are not the
intended recipient of this message or their agent, or if
this message has been addressed to you in error, please
immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete
this message and any attachments. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,
dissemination, copying, or storage of this message or its
attachments is strictly prohibited.




--

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Question

[George Skorup]

The OSPF state machine always prefers an E1 route over an E2 route. 
There's more stuff like multiple areas and ABRs, ASBRs and all that 
which I don't really care about for a couple dozen routers and a single 
AS. But I've always used E1 for the default route. Don't ask me why. 
Mostly because I don't remember. But it was probably some MikroTik bug 
at some point.


On 5/13/2018 4:53 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
So why is type 2 the default on most routers?  For what reason would 
you use an E2 over an E1?


On May 13, 2018, at 17:40, Matt Hoppes 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:



O. They are all going out as Metric-type 2

On May 13, 2018, at 17:37, Matt Hoppes 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Correct. A is distributing default route. Directly to C (in theory 
but not happening) and to B which is distributing to C currently.


This is edgeOS.

I’m actually not sure. I’ll have to check on E1 vs E2.

On May 13, 2018, at 17:26, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


OK, so only A is distributing the default route. as-type-1 or 
as-type-2? E1 takes path costs into account. E2 does not.


Bounce a neighbor and see if it fixes itself. I assume RouterOS. 
I've seen weird stuff like this happen before.


On 5/13/2018 4:15 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Only one - the Long one.

The things connected to A take the direct path but the default is 
not coming through for some reason.


On May 13, 2018, at 17:12, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:



How many default routes show up in the LSA table?

On 5/13/2018 3:51 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:


OSPF question:


A—-B—-C

And

A——C


A is the Internet peering router.


C should end up with two default routes in it correct?


One through B and one directly to C?


What’s odd is everything on A populated on Cs route table as 
direct routes - except for the default route.

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Question

[George Skorup]

OK, so only A is distributing the default route. as-type-1 or as-type-2? 
E1 takes path costs into account. E2 does not.


Bounce a neighbor and see if it fixes itself. I assume RouterOS. I've 
seen weird stuff like this happen before.


On 5/13/2018 4:15 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Only one - the Long one.

The things connected to A take the direct path but the default is not 
coming through for some reason.


On May 13, 2018, at 17:12, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:



How many default routes show up in the LSA table?

On 5/13/2018 3:51 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:


OSPF question:


A—-B—-C

And

A——C


A is the Internet peering router.


C should end up with two default routes in it correct?


One through B and one directly to C?


What’s odd is everything on A populated on Cs route table as direct 
routes - except for the default route.

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Question

[George Skorup]

How many default routes show up in the LSA table?

On 5/13/2018 3:51 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:


OSPF question:


A—-B—-C

And

A——C


A is the Internet peering router.


C should end up with two default routes in it correct?


One through B and one directly to C?


What’s odd is everything on A populated on Cs route table as direct 
routes - except for the default route.

Re: [AFMUG] PTP800 ODU

[George Skorup]

I guess I just don't know enough about the slight differences since I've 
never seen a PTP800 ODU interface. But that's exactly what a Trango ODU 
(just Remec OEM) does. The port on the ODU is rectangular and mates up 
directly with the circular port on the dish. Is there a gap or something 
for matching?


On 5/13/2018 12:29 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
If you butt a rectangular waveguide to a circular waveguide will have 
some return loss mismatch issues.


It would work to a certain extent but you will not have as much tx 
power as you should and you will have RX loss.


Yes, everything else is the same.  I would give it a try.  It will 
probably work in a pinch but best to fix it right for the long term.


-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 11:07 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] PTP800 ODU

Anybody know if an 11GHz PTP800 ODU will mate with a Trango dish? I know
the PTP800 ODUs are Remec rectangular, but the Trango dish is Remec
circular. But aren't the physical interface dimensions the same? The
Trango dish is just a round hole, so no plate to rotate to change 
polarity.


Got a dead ODU on an ApexPlus-11 and I think I can get my hands on a
PTP800 ODU-B. I know Cambium/Ceragon has single and dual pol IP20/PTP820
Remec adapters now, so we're debating whether to fix the one end with
this or just swap to PTP820's.

[AFMUG] PTP800 ODU

[George Skorup]

Anybody know if an 11GHz PTP800 ODU will mate with a Trango dish? I know 
the PTP800 ODUs are Remec rectangular, but the Trango dish is Remec 
circular. But aren't the physical interface dimensions the same? The 
Trango dish is just a round hole, so no plate to rotate to change polarity.


Got a dead ODU on an ApexPlus-11 and I think I can get my hands on a 
PTP800 ODU-B. I know Cambium/Ceragon has single and dual pol IP20/PTP820 
Remec adapters now, so we're debating whether to fix the one end with 
this or just swap to PTP820's.

Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

[George Skorup]

No diodes, just gas-tube for large surge event suppression. Obviously 
not as much protection though. I'm seeing more CRC errors than I'm 
comfortable with on the cards with diodes. Rev G is definitely better 
though. I've broken the shield at various sites while testing to rule 
out any potential ground loop issues. Ran on battery. Etc. It's weird. 
Noise or something, I don't know.


On 5/9/2018 10:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

What's this gas tube product placement?
I want to see these

On Wed, May 9, 2018, 9:51 AM > wrote:


Thanks, yeah nothing fit well next to the thin pcbs.

Odd, got some test results back from George yesterday.  Some types of
equipment has CRC errors with some of our surge suppressors.
Trying to
identify the bad combinations.  Good thing is that our gas tube only
products seem to be flawless with everything that people have
tried them on.

-Original Message-
From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with
Medusa

Chuck,

Like form factor of new arrestors much better.  Thicker PCB and RJ45
not as tall.  They do not fit well next to your last thin pcb version
though.  Did not care for the thin pcb and tall RJ45 at all. Swapped
out 4 PxP450i APC arrestors to these 17 hours ago.  So far flawless
even at 1000base.  No errors at all.  This is with RackInjector,
Cambium Sync and very long cat-5 runs.  Time will tell but looks good
so far.



On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  > wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I sent you a note off-list.  I would like to send you the gas
tube version
> to see if that fixes the issue.
>
> Inquiring minds want to know...
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:08 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with
Medusa
>
>> OK, so grounds are related to the problem.
>>
>> There may be something unusual with timing pulses on the power
that is
>> causing the surge suppressor to fire.
>> Forrest would know much more than I about that.
>>
>> I honestly don’t know if anyone has tried my product with a Medusa
>> before.
>> I have a 100% gas tube version that may solve the problem.
>
>
> I am still having some troubles with PTP450i holding 1gbit ethernet
> even with Cambium sync.  Not near as bad with Cambium Sync though.
> Will these gas tube versions work any better?  Will they still keep
> equipment safe?

Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

[George Skorup]

Matt, exactly which card is that? Is that gas-tube only? I did some 
extensive testing at a site yesterday for Chuck. The more data we can 
give him the better we'll all be.


On 5/9/2018 9:08 AM, Matt wrote:

Chuck,

Like form factor of new arrestors much better.  Thicker PCB and RJ45
not as tall.  They do not fit well next to your last thin pcb version
though.  Did not care for the thin pcb and tall RJ45 at all.  Swapped
out 4 PxP450i APC arrestors to these 17 hours ago.  So far flawless
even at 1000base.  No errors at all.  This is with RackInjector,
Cambium Sync and very long cat-5 runs.  Time will tell but looks good
so far.



On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 10:29 AM,   wrote:

Matt,

I sent you a note off-list.  I would like to send you the gas tube version
to see if that fixes the issue.

Inquiring minds want to know...

-Original Message- From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa


OK, so grounds are related to the problem.

There may be something unusual with timing pulses on the power that is
causing the surge suppressor to fire.
Forrest would know much more than I about that.

I honestly don’t know if anyone has tried my product with a Medusa before.
I have a 100% gas tube version that may solve the problem.


I am still having some troubles with PTP450i holding 1gbit ethernet
even with Cambium sync.  Not near as bad with Cambium Sync though.
Will these gas tube versions work any better?  Will they still keep
equipment safe?

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[George Skorup]

Funny story if you were using ePMP near the beginning. Some of the first 
original 5GHz integrated radios had labels marked 56VDC. They were 
definitely NOT capable of being powered from 48/56V. Somebody screwed up.


Yeah. We've run Force180/200 survey setups on a small 12V SLA too. It 
works, but they're rated at 14 volts. Same with the 100 and 450 SMs. 
Still works. However, I recall the regulator is very inefficient down 
that low. Like the old 320 and 430 APs could be run on 24VDC, but you 
really didn't want to do that, and Motorola/Cambium said it was 
completely unsupported.


On 5/6/2018 5:13 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I had a portable 12V battery that I would use for site surveys with 
the old PMP100. I'm pretty sure they would function in the 8-10V region.


I know nothing about the ePMP radios. Trust George.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 5/6/2018 2:33 PM, George Skorup wrote:

Original 5GHz integrated and connectorized are 14-30VDC, -4/5 +7/8 only.

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[George Skorup]

We never deployed any 2.4GHz ePMP, but I believe all of the original 
2.4GHz ePMP 1k's (integrated, connectorized, connectorized GPS) and the 
5GHz connectorized GPS radio are 802.3af. The voltage regulator will 
only tolerate 20-60VDC. That's when the flash (or RAM?) heater issue 
came up in the winter for a lot of folks. Too much current (and 
compounding voltage drop) with the heater on down around 21-22 volts. 
The fix was to use a 29.5VDC supply.


Original 5GHz integrated and connectorized are 14-30VDC, -4/5 +7/8 only.

2.4 and 5GHz Force180/200 radios moved to the bridge rectifier polarity 
agnostic setup, however still only 14-30VDC. Same now with the 450b SMs.


I have some 5GHz 1k GPS radios powered from a RSD150C-24 and 100-150' 
cables for about a year and a half now and they've been working fine. 
We're getting ready to replace those with PTP550s. So now of course I 
have to re-wire a bunch of stuff for 48VDC.


Also have an AD-155B at a site. 27.6VDC float voltage to the gear. Got 
an old Rev E SyncPipe on top and it shows Vin: 26.1v. That's 200 feet of 
cable. 1.5v drop. Those ePMP GPs radios under load are probably still 
seeing 25+ volts. Off of an RSD, I'd guess 22 volts which would be 
cutting it close. The nice thing is, those can easily be moved to 48VDC. 
I wish Cambium did this with the 450i, but meh I guess.


On 5/6/2018 4:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
The GPS synced radios won't boot at 20v, but the subscriber modules 
should be able to run at a bit lower voltage (unless the 2.4ghz radios 
are different, which is possible). With a standard 29v ePMP power 
supply, there certainly shouldn't be anywhere near that much voltage 
drop on 100' of cable anyway (unless that cable is complete junk).


The thing that seems really odd to me about that, is that an ePMP 
normally should be drawing quite a bit less current than a PMP100 
(which means less voltage drop). I'm not sure what the minimum voltage 
is with a PMP100, but I know they can have problems at 12v, so I can't 
see it being much lower than an ePMP SM.


On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Josh Luthman 
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


They don't boot at 20v.  I don't think you'd lose 4v at 100' but I
could be wrong.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Philip Rankin
<wireless...@gmail.com <mailto:wireless...@gmail.com>> wrote:

 I am changing a PMP 100.  That is 2.4 GHz over to an EPM
P1000 subscriber module and the PMP 100 works perfectly with
the standard PMP 100 power supply or I can even switch it over
 to the EPMP1000 standard supply and it will work. But if I
put the EPMP 1000 on it own supply that comes with it or the
standard PMP 100 supply the radio never shows power.  I have
tested the cable for continuity and is OK. I have to think
 that the cable is resistive and the Voltage is too low at the
EPMP1000. I have not checked that yet. The cable length is
right at 100 feet. Strange! The EPMP1000 works fine on a 6’
jumper to the PS.

Phil Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Corp.
Pittsburg, KS

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:56 PM Josh Luthman
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Right pretty sure Chuck removed the ethernet issues with
the newer revision cards.  My issue, though, is the units
will lose power for anywhere from a moment (so they simply
power cycle) to 30 minutes.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:38 PM, George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

I'm running some 1k GPS radios from RSD-150C-24's
which always put out 24.0VDC. Injectors all at the
bottom, 100-200 feet of cable and they work fine.

The only real problem I've had is getting them to
maintain gigabit links without errors. They'll either
run fin

Re: [AFMUG] New 450 Failure state

[George Skorup]

I've seen the same thing. It's usually moisture in the timing port. 
Sometimes spider webs will do it too.


On 5/3/2018 2:52 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
Just ran into this scenario this morning.  It's a new one to me. 450 
5ghz SM.  The Radio thinks it has a default plug inserted.  This is 
what we've all seen before, here's the new part - if you power it down 
for 5 minutes, then it will then boot up normally.  Any powercycle 
shorter than that, or a webpage reboot, and it thinks the default plug 
is in again.


We didn't want to install this customer since the radio needed to go 
on top of an abandoned 80' concrete silo with no ladder.  "No Problem" 
the customer says, "I own a 100' Bucket truck that can reach the top 
of it!",  "Yes, but maintenance will be impossible if the truck breaks 
down", "The Truck is Fine, I'll fix any problems, and I own it!"  Of 
course, he then promptly forgot our warnings about the inaccessibility 
of the radio, and sold the truck.  I told him he better hope that the 
5 minute powering off trick keeps working.

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[George Skorup]

I'm running some 1k GPS radios from RSD-150C-24's which always put out 
24.0VDC. Injectors all at the bottom, 100-200 feet of cable and they 
work fine.


The only real problem I've had is getting them to maintain gigabit links 
without errors. They'll either run fine with 50-100 CRC/FCS errors a 
day. Or I'll get lots more FCS errors and the links will drop a couple 
times a day. Some of them will eventually fall back to 100Mbps. Take the 
GigE-APCs out and they run gigabit with no errors.


Chuck sent me some modified CAT6-APCs to try. I just haven't had time to 
dive into it yet. Hopefully next week when we replace a couple of those 
1k GPS radios with PTP550s.


On 5/2/2018 11:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

There is - here are the counters: https://imgur.com/a/FdVP9IF
Note that bb5/6/7 have been losing power frequently too.

If the voltage is too low, why would they randomly reboot maybe once 
or twice a week and then be fine for months at a time?


The runs are well under 100m.  24vdc feeds the NEMA enclosure, then we 
have maybe 25 feet of cat5 to APs.


I would think it's no more than 1 volt loss from my 24v source to the 
AP, but I have not verified this.  I know it's 24v at the green 
terminal block to the POE injector/Gigabit Sync injector.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 6:00 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> wrote:


If you have a base unit attached to these, you should look at the
event counters on the tripped line in the binary/boolean tab to
determine if the device is detecting an overcurrent event.    If
it's seeing an overcurrent trip, then yes, check the surge
suppressors.

The other item is what has been mentioned, if you have too low of
a voltage into the PowerInjector, the ePMP's will reboot.   This
is especially true in cold weather since the units seem to draw
more even after startup.   You need around at least 26V on the
input of the power injector, if not a bit more, for an ePMP to run
correctly on a full 100m of cable.  You could probably get away
with a bit lower voltage on shorter runs.

The 10/100 injector doesn't drop quite as many volts due to it
being a switch closure instead of a semiconductor junction, so you
might be right on the edge of what is acceptable.

BTW, too low of voltage will also cause 'trips', as when the
voltage drops below acceptable ranges for the ePMP, the ePMP power
supply circuit tries to pull more and more power from the CAT5
cable, eventually causing what looks like a brief short circuit
just before it shuts down.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Josh Luthman
>
wrote:

I've got two of these with problems:
http://store.packetflux.com/powerinjector-plus-sync-gigabit-version/



However one of these gives me no problems:

http://store.packetflux.com/sitemonitor-4-channel-gigabit-poe-injector-controller/



I have a 24vdc plant going up the tower.  In the box it feeds
these three Packetflux units. The 4 channel POE injector has
given me 0 problems.

I've got Cambium ePMP on the PowerInjector and it has been
randomly? rebooting units for several months.  Yesterday one
of the ports just decided to turn off for 20 minutes and come
right back.  We've replaced the line & radio to make sure it's
the box, but all signs point to it.

Has anyone else seen this or am I lucky in getting the only
two units with power problems on them?  AFAIK sync has been
just as reliable as the power through them.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St


Suite 1337


Troy, OH 45373






-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
59602


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Looking for waveguide parts

[George Skorup]

Looks like we'll be able to get a pair of original Western Electric's. 
They're WR-159 flanges, so we'll either need a 159 to 137 transition, or 
159 and 137 to type N adapters and coax in between. I'd prefer to find 
some transitions and avoid the coax.


On 4/24/2018 3:18 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
You need a circular waveguide to N connector transition (assuming you 
want to feed with coax).  The waveguide need to taper to the bottom of 
the horn.


-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 12:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] Looking for waveguide parts

Anybody got or can get their hands on some 6GHz combiners? Looking to do
a dual-pol ~20 mile path with existing KS15676 horns at both ends. Looks
like one side is completely stripped and the other side is still set up
for 4GHz.

[AFMUG] Looking for waveguide parts

[George Skorup]

Anybody got or can get their hands on some 6GHz combiners? Looking to do 
a dual-pol ~20 mile path with existing KS15676 horns at both ends. Looks 
like one side is completely stripped and the other side is still set up 
for 4GHz.

Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and Rx Sensitivity

[George Skorup]

Yeah, no. The minimum diameter in the L6 band is 3-foot and >/=70dB F/B 
ratio. I believe only a few Radiowaves and Andrew/CommScope 
high-performance dishes meet that spec. I believe that was part of the 
same change that allowed 60MHz channel bandwidth.


The upper 6GHz band is still limited to 30MHz channels and 6-foot or 
larger antennas.


Also, the minimum path length for both lower and upper 6GHz bands is 
17km. 11GHz is 5km. I believe there are special considerations and 
waivers to this for things like public safety agencies and such.


On 4/19/2018 4:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

>>>Fcc changed the rules.  You can do 2’ in 6ghz now.

Can you please share the ref where and when this was changed ?

Thanks.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Sean Heskett" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:59:57 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and Rx
Sensitivity

Fcc changed the rules.  You can do 2’ in 6ghz now.

Why are you limited to 2’ dishes??

Can you do a 2’ and 3’ (or 4’)??

What you are trying to do breaks the laws of physics no matter
who’s equipment you use.

Sean


On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 1:42 PM SmarterBroadband > wrote:

Love to but 11 GHz is all gone.   I don’t think you can do 2
foot dishes at 6 GHz?

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 18, 2018 3:51 PM


*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and Rx
Sensitivity


what rain zone are you in?

yes our link is in 18GHz

honestly if you need 1gbps with 4.5 nines with 2' dishes at 6
miles you probably need to look at 11GHz or 6GHz instead of 18GHz.

-sean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 4:08 PM, SmarterBroadband
> wrote:

Cambium 820's will be down to around 400 meg at 4.5 nines.

We want the link to hold 1 Gig at 4.5 nines.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 2:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and Rx
Sensitivity

What does link planner say you need?

Five nines I presume?

bp


On 4/18/2018 1:12 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
> Yes, looking at both.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 12:44 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and
Rx Sensitivity
>
> On 4/18/18 12:31 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
>> SAF seems to have the lowest output power I have seen…. 
Especially
>> the G and GS.
>

> I would look at the RX sensitivity tables.
>

Re: [AFMUG] unimus pricing? ouch

[George Skorup]

I finally moved to Oxidized w/ git backend a few weeks ago. Good nuf for 
me. And it's free.


On 4/19/2018 1:58 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Unimus has been on my todo list for some time, had a site router croak 
out, thought "self, you had set up that unimus test server some time 
ago, you got this"


well, self had only purchased 10 perpetual devices and it wont start

so i scurry over to the website to get around to buying the whole 
shooting match. I see they heeded my advice, the inexpensive perpetual 
licence model just wasnt viable.


Prices are where I thought they should be back when I was concerned 
about how cheap it was, but now cheap me is hitting me in the sack for 
not getting some more of those perpetual keys


I assume this product has only gotten better (even though it was 
pretty awesome at the time)?


4.5 per device a year doesnt seem unreasonable for peace of mind. Am I 
wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and Rx Sensitivity

[George Skorup]

We've got an Exalt G2-18 w/ Radiowaves HP2-18's at ~2.5 miles. 38dBi + 
19dBm Tx at 40MHz/256QAM. RSL is -35dBm. Sometimes it's a little too 
hot. Probably needs ATPC enabled.


On 4/18/2018 4:47 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


We had a Dragonwave going 7.5 miles, but it had a 3' dish on one end 
and a 2' dish on the other.



bp


On 4/18/2018 1:42 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:


5.5 miles

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 18, 2018 12:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and Rx Sensitivity

There’s a HP version of the G and the W is even louder that that.

How far are you trying to shoot and why are you limited to 2’ dishes??

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 12:31 PM SmarterBroadband > wrote:


SAF seems to have the lowest output power I have seen…. 
Especially the G and GS.

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:58 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and Rx
Sensitivity

SAF integra g or w

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 3:50 PM SmarterBroadband > wrote:

We are looking to install a couple of 18GHz License Links and
are restricted to 2 foot antennas.   Therefore I need the
best output power and Rx sensitivity available today.

Both Dragonwave and Bridgewave are touting HP versions but
neither will be available for months.   Maybe longer.

So what is available off the shelf today? I am checking
vendors spec sheets but If you know of a higher powered radio
please let me know.

Thanks

Adam

Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz Licensed Link best power and Rx Sensitivity

[George Skorup]

Have a coordinator tell you how much power you can run on the path 
before you decide to buy gear. You might be limited to the typical 
14-20dBm Tx power due to other paths/licensees.


A Radiowaves HP2-18 is 38dBi. We have a 2.5 mile Exalt ExtendAir G2-18 
link with that at both ends. +19dBm Tx power at 40MHz/256QAM. -35dBm 
RSL. Rarely drops out in the rain.


On 4/17/2018 5:50 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:


We are looking to install a couple of 18GHz License Links and are 
restricted to 2 foot antennas. Therefore I need the best output power 
and Rx sensitivity available today.


Both Dragonwave and Bridgewave are touting HP versions but neither 
will be available for months.�� Maybe longer.


So what is available off the shelf today? I am checking vendors spec 
sheets but If you know of a higher powered radio please let me know.


Thanks

Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux and -48VDC

[George Skorup]

Honestly, if we have a site that needs 450m's, it's probably going to be 
either an outdoor rack cabinet or a standard rack in a tower shelter. So 
a Cambium Sync 4-port DIN PIPS... meh? Yes, there's 450i which supports 
the new sync, but still also supports Canopy sync. Then there's the 
PTP550 coming which will also support CMM5 aka Cambium Sync. Still I say 
meh.


IMO, focus on the RackInjector. I would like to see a telemetry card. 
And a PDU card. I'll put two chassis at every site if I have to, I don't 
give a shit. Probably won't be needed in most cases though.


We've made a decision that these small cabinets are just a pain in the 
ass for expansion and new radio requirements. Outdoor rack cabinets 
really aren't that expensive when you consider that it's probably what 
you should have put there in the first place and now you're spending 
time and $ replacing the small cabinet.


I hate doing things twice. Which is why I usually end up doing it right 
the third time. Or fourth. :|


Just my 2c.

On 4/14/2018 8:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
For various reasons you need positive voltage if you're doing 
traditional power-interruption canopy style sync. I.E. the type of 
sync which the PowerInjector+Sync will do. This general statement 
might not be 100% true with the 450i (and perhaps some other more 
recent radios), but suffice it to say that negative voltages aren't 
easy to deal with for sync.  Because of this requirement the PIPS 
requires positive power.


On the rackinjector, we support the newer Cambium style sync, which 
doesn't much care about polarity, and also a polarity agnostic board 
which also doesn't care about polarity.  For this reason, you can feed 
negative voltages into the rackinjector.   Currently, you have to have 
at least one of the three power supplies feeding the rackinjector set 
up for positive voltage, and the other two can be positive or negative 
or whatever you want, depending on the requirements of the expansion 
cards and the radios.


One of the next released products will be a Cambium Sync product in 
the traditional din mounted PIPS form factor.  What is holding us up 
is that we need to make the "reliant on a positive voltage source for 
control" requirement go away. Every solution we look at tends to be 
way more expensive than we want.


On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 5:53 PM, Seth Mattinen > wrote:


The PowerInjector plus Sync does *not* work with a telco DC -48V
input, correct? Only the new Rackinjector will?




--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] MDU coax

[George Skorup]

Most of the MDU OTA we do is 40-60 miles out of Chicago. Some need a 
pre-amp at the antenna. Most 10+ story buildings get decent signal 
without it.


Distro amp > splitters > risers > 25db taps > 15db taps > 10 > 5 etc. 
Depends on the number of units, distance from the amp, etc.


That's what I recall off the top of my head. I don't do much with that 
stuff. We have minions for that.


On 4/13/2018 6:56 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yes, it’s will need an amp to overcome the splitter loss.

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:17 PM, Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to take OTA reception of TV and send 
it through existing coax in an MDU?  Do I need some sort of amplifier, or will 
it work split off to say 50 units direct on the coax?

Re: [AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[George Skorup]

Yeah... except it doesn't work, at least on 6.1.6. Pull out the stuff I 
don't want to overwrite, upload the file and... SSID, WPA2 key, traffic 
shaping, device name, etc. all gone. They just go to factory default 
values. Except for what's in the config file, VLANs, bridges, etc. Not 
very helpful. This is friggin stupid.


On 4/12/2018 7:57 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Thata why you pull everything youre not changing

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 5:09 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Ugh. This is what was tripping me up:

radio.1.status=enabled
radio.status=enabled

has to be in the config file or the very vague "invalid" crap
comes up.

Lame.

On 4/12/2018 4:14 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I want in on that

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:12 PM George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

The config file definitely has unix formatting, which is why
I'm editing it with vi.

I don't want this to end up changing the SSIDs, WPA keys,
device names, etc. So I strip out those elements, save,
upload and I get Invalid configuration file structure.

And yes, I'm using the upload configuration button right
below the download configuration button.

I'm bout to get my .308 out and shoot these things off the
towers.

On 4/11/2018 10:58 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Did you use regular notepad? That fiddles with text configs
sometimes, notepad++ does not

    On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:56 PM George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>>
wrote:

Yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Management
and data VLANs. Management address from static to DHCP.
I was thinking this would qualify as some pretty basic
changes. Apparently not.

We upgraded everything to 6.1.6. I set up an NSM5,
downloaded the backup and stripped the device-specific
stuff. Go import it and it says invalid. WTF. I don't
know. I'll screw with it more tomorrow.

On 4/11/2018 10:37 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

For those with simple configs it's probably fine.

If you have several interfaces and vlans per CPE with a
few bridges, it's more of a pain (from experience).

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:29 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

All the config file does is populate the listed
fields. Anything not listed it doesnt change. Thats
why you have to apply it but you can edit it still
after loading it. Id pull a fresh config file from
one of the units and edit it, removing anything you
dont want changed. It could just be a change in a
field name

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:26 PM Mathew Howard
<mhoward...@gmail.com
<mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm not sure how you would use a partial
config... I think that it would just use
defaults for anything that was missing.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:56 PM Josh Reynolds
<j...@kyneticwifi.com
<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

A partial config? Never tried it. Dunno
what some defaults are, and there are
things hidden in the config file that
aren't in the webui.

Config also seems to change things from
time to time.

Also config order is sometimes important
depending on what you are doing.

(This is just what I remember from
5.2.1-5.8.x days)

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:21 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        It should

    On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:10 PM George
Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid,
or will airOS 6.1.x not take a partial
config? I just want to change a
couple things on several hundred
radios.
And no, I'm not interested in
AirControl or UNMS.

Re: [AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[George Skorup]

Ugh. This is what was tripping me up:

radio.1.status=enabled
radio.status=enabled

has to be in the config file or the very vague "invalid" crap comes up.

Lame.

On 4/12/2018 4:14 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I want in on that

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:12 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


The config file definitely has unix formatting, which is why I'm
editing it with vi.

I don't want this to end up changing the SSIDs, WPA keys, device
names, etc. So I strip out those elements, save, upload and I
get Invalid configuration file structure.

And yes, I'm using the upload configuration button right below the
download configuration button.

I'm bout to get my .308 out and shoot these things off the towers.

On 4/11/2018 10:58 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Did you use regular notepad? That fiddles with text configs
sometimes, notepad++ does not

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:56 PM George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

Yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Management and
data VLANs. Management address from static to DHCP. I was
thinking this would qualify as some pretty basic changes.
Apparently not.

We upgraded everything to 6.1.6. I set up an NSM5, downloaded
the backup and stripped the device-specific stuff. Go import
it and it says invalid. WTF. I don't know. I'll screw with it
more tomorrow.

On 4/11/2018 10:37 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

For those with simple configs it's probably fine.

If you have several interfaces and vlans per CPE with a few
bridges, it's more of a pain (from experience).

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:29 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

All the config file does is populate the listed fields.
Anything not listed it doesnt change. Thats why you have
to apply it but you can edit it still after loading it.
Id pull a fresh config file from one of the units and
edit it, removing anything you dont want changed. It
could just be a change in a field name

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:26 PM Mathew Howard
<mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm not sure how you would use a partial config... I
think that it would just use defaults for anything
that was missing.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:56 PM Josh Reynolds
<j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
wrote:

A partial config? Never tried it. Dunno what
some defaults are, and there are things hidden
in the config file that aren't in the webui.

Config also seems to change things from time to
time.

Also config order is sometimes important
depending on what you are doing.

(This is just what I remember from 5.2.1-5.8.x days)

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:21 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        It should

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:10 PM George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid, or
will airOS 6.1.x not take a partial
config? I just want to change a couple
things on several hundred radios.
And no, I'm not interested in AirControl
or UNMS.

Re: [AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[George Skorup]

The config file definitely has unix formatting, which is why I'm editing 
it with vi.


I don't want this to end up changing the SSIDs, WPA keys, device names, 
etc. So I strip out those elements, save, upload and I get Invalid 
configuration file structure.


And yes, I'm using the upload configuration button right below the 
download configuration button.


I'm bout to get my .308 out and shoot these things off the towers.

On 4/11/2018 10:58 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Did you use regular notepad? That fiddles with text configs sometimes, 
notepad++ does not


On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:56 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Management and data
VLANs. Management address from static to DHCP. I was thinking this
would qualify as some pretty basic changes. Apparently not.

We upgraded everything to 6.1.6. I set up an NSM5, downloaded the
backup and stripped the device-specific stuff. Go import it and it
says invalid. WTF. I don't know. I'll screw with it more tomorrow.

On 4/11/2018 10:37 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

For those with simple configs it's probably fine.

If you have several interfaces and vlans per CPE with a few
bridges, it's more of a pain (from experience).

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:29 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

All the config file does is populate the listed fields.
Anything not listed it doesnt change. Thats why you have to
apply it but you can edit it still after loading it. Id pull
a fresh config file from one of the units and edit it,
removing anything you dont want changed. It could just be a
change in a field name

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:26 PM Mathew Howard
<mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm not sure how you would use a partial config... I
think that it would just use defaults for anything that
was missing.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:56 PM Josh Reynolds
<j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

A partial config? Never tried it. Dunno what some
defaults are, and there are things hidden in the
config file that aren't in the webui.

Config also seems to change things from time to time.

Also config order is sometimes important depending on
what you are doing.

(This is just what I remember from 5.2.1-5.8.x days)

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:21 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It should

    On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:10 PM George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid, or will
airOS 6.1.x not take a partial
config? I just want to change a couple things
on several hundred radios.
And no, I'm not interested in AirControl or UNMS.

Re: [AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[George Skorup]

Yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Management and data VLANs. 
Management address from static to DHCP. I was thinking this would 
qualify as some pretty basic changes. Apparently not.


We upgraded everything to 6.1.6. I set up an NSM5, downloaded the backup 
and stripped the device-specific stuff. Go import it and it says 
invalid. WTF. I don't know. I'll screw with it more tomorrow.


On 4/11/2018 10:37 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

For those with simple configs it's probably fine.

If you have several interfaces and vlans per CPE with a few bridges, 
it's more of a pain (from experience).


On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:29 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


All the config file does is populate the listed fields. Anything
not listed it doesnt change. Thats why you have to apply it but
you can edit it still after loading it. Id pull a fresh config
file from one of the units and edit it, removing anything you dont
want changed. It could just be a change in a field name

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:26 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com
<mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm not sure how you would use a partial config... I think
that it would just use defaults for anything that was missing.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:56 PM Josh Reynolds
<j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

A partial config? Never tried it. Dunno what some defaults
are, and there are things hidden in the config file that
aren't in the webui.

Config also seems to change things from time to time.

Also config order is sometimes important depending on what
you are doing.

(This is just what I remember from 5.2.1-5.8.x days)

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:21 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It should

    On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:10 PM George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid, or will airOS
6.1.x not take a partial
config? I just want to change a couple things on
several hundred radios.
And no, I'm not interested in AirControl or UNMS.

[AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[George Skorup]

ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid, or will airOS 6.1.x not take a partial 
config? I just want to change a couple things on several hundred radios. 
And no, I'm not interested in AirControl or UNMS.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium legacy case

[George Skorup]

The new 5GHz PMP450b SMs are shipping now. The 450b mid-gain is pretty 
much identical to the ePMP Force180. And 450b high-gain is an integrated 
dish like the Force200. But that's just 5GHz for now. There's still the 
2.4 450 which is the classic SM case. And the 3GHz weird-o half n half 
case. There's still lots of stock of regular 5GHz 450 SMs too.


On 4/10/2018 2:21 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
As far as I know, cambium is still shipping radios with that mount.  
The very latest radios are a different style, but I'm not sure they're 
even available in some bands yet. Someone who buys this stuff will 
need to confirm.


Also, keep in mind that customers like to hold onto gear until it is 
well beyond obsolete.   A not insignificant chunk of my business comes 
from products which are being used to power and/or otherwise support 
what I would consider ancient radios.  As a result I still do 
backwards testing and occasionally end up digging an old radio out of 
the archives to do interoperability testing (see the 320 thread I 
started a few days ago).


I know that the WISP I am involved with still has a healthy number of 
radios in that form factor in place.   I'm not sure if they're 
deploying any more or not.


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


I am pretty sure I was told or heard that Cambium is transitioning
totally away from the old canopy style case.
That is why I have stopped to building my little plastic clip
basic mount.
I sent out EOL to distributors but I continue to get orders.
That form factor is a dead end, right?




--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor Question with Relay

[George Skorup]

I use the temp control module for heaters and fans. Same concept. The 
external relays are 24VDC coil. Contacts rated for 125VAC/10A. The load 
is on the normally-open side. The temp module calls for heating or 
cooling and triggers the correct device. e.g. turn on the fan if TempA>30C.


You're just using the contacts on one smaller relay to control the coil 
on another larger relay. Pretty simple.


On 4/10/2018 11:24 AM, Paul McCall wrote:

Yes, we know that, and have used it on lighter loads.  But, apparently there is 
a challenge on a heavier load as we described below.  Wanting to know if we can 
do what we want and maybe we just have the wrong external relay

-Original Message-
From: Af  On Behalf Of Christopher Tyler
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 12:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor Question with Relay

Yes, there is a relay output on the siteMonitor II that you can trigger via 
SNMP or web interface.

Re: [AFMUG] OT SIP issue

[George Skorup]

What kind of router/firewall are you working with? No audio is usually a 
SIP ALG thing. You need the ALG on to rewrite the SIP headers when 
behind NAT.


On 4/8/2018 2:30 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Tried both ways, no joy.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2018, at 1:23 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> wrote:



Are they behind nat?

Sounds like it might be a reinvite issue, asterisk will try to get 
out of the audio path by telling the endpoints to talk directly to 
each other.   If nat is involved asterisk will often tell the 
endpoints to talk directly even if they have no direct connection 
between them.


Disabling reinvite may help if this is the case.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 11:27 AM Chuck McCown > wrote:


Pulling our hair out.  The Aastra phones will call each other, we
can send dtmf but no audio. Linksys sip ata does the same thing. 
These were working, very frustrating.

Re: [AFMUG] Remote access and mobile data for tech

[George Skorup]

There are lots of stuffs for VHF and UHF data radios, serial, modbus, 
ethernet, etc. Like Cambium's cnReach, but it isn't cheap and doesn't go 
below 220.


You can put an LTE stick in a MikroTik, but if the router locks up, 
you're kinda screwed. Which is why I haven't bothered with that. If you 
screw up a firewall rule or something, it's easy enough to mac-telnet in 
from an adjacent router.


SiteMonitor AutoCycle is usually good nuf for lockups. I think Forrest 
said he'll be giving us more options with the RackInjector and next 
revision of base unit. Like pinging more than one IP. Or rulesets or 
something like that.


On 4/8/2018 3:02 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I was talking to Select Spectrum the other day.  They can get you a 
channel in 217-220mhz.  The license is for a whole county.  I think 
the biggest size is 1mhz, but they'll also do a 100khz channel. 
 They'll price it by Mhz*population.  A tenth of a mhz times the 
population of a rural county could be pretty cheap.  Oh and you can 
transmit at 50 Watts ERP.


So along these lines I was wondering how feasible it would be to build 
a little low speed OOB management network.  You might only get 
100kbps, but 217mhz at 50 Watts should really travel.  It might be 
just the thing to get you into your hung router.



-- Original Message --
From: "Jaime Solorza" >

To: "Animal Farm" >
Sent: 4/6/2018 8:56:51 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote access and mobile data for tech

Does have a learning curve but great technical support with real 
folks on phone


Jaime Solorza

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018, 9:36 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


Cradlepoint is what we are looking toward for sites. Is it as
versatile as mikrotik for fieldwork? I need easy changes without
reboot

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018, 8:35 PM Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

I have zero issues with Cradlepoint Aer1600... T-MOBILE ,
Wi-Fi and LAN connectionsI can use two SIM cards if I
need

Jaime Solorza

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018, 6:40 PM Steve Jones
> wrote:

May be looking for two separate items here. And rehashing
the site remote acces questions.
I prefer a multicarrier option, that way if im in the
tech van and its verizon sim isnt getting quality id like
to drop my att straight talk sim in and get interwebs.
I prefer mikrotik. I currently use an air router for the
install truck and with ip aliases i can access all our
radios directly from a phone and our long test cable.
Except not 169.254.1.1 because ubnt chose to hardcode
that. If the radio connects to our network then we have
access to our network from our phone. Having the cellular
option adds public side access. Plus google earth needs a
live connection to plot link paths onsite, i did it today
on a 300k hotspot from my workphone...aweful.
I would like external wifi and cellular antenna options
so i dont have to hang this out the window in a ziplock
baggie, looks kind of ghetto, but it also needs to be
able to be made portable if im testing where i cant get
the van close enough to operate off the test cables and
have to operate off ac site power or out of radio range
of the van antenna.

Then, of course external remote site access. We had a
site router hang the other day and had to drive to the
site with a subscriber to connect from the ground and
reboot the ups, otherwise we would have had to climb or
trip the breaker and wait for the battery to die

Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

[George Skorup]

See the diagram? Far left, straight over from the jumpers.

Left to right: Source A /  +7&8 / -4&5 / nc3&6 / nc1&2

Set 3&6 to + and 1&2 to -

Connect +48/56VDC to PowerA, negative/return to common.

You must leave it -4&5, +7&8 if you expect to provide sync over power to 
a 450i. The radio will not see the sync pulse if that traditional Canopy 
polarity isn't retained. The 450i doesn't necessarily need the other two 
pairs, unless you're using POE out from the Aux port where you might 
need the additional 25W. I've never used that, so I haven't bothered. It 
runs fine on two pairs.


On 4/3/2018 11:06 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
This is what the jumpers are out of the box. Lets see if I got this 
right. From Left to Right 7,8 +, 4,5+, Skip, 3,6 Nada, 1,2 Nada
I'm totally confused. I thought 4,5 should be - and 7,8 + for Mode A 
Passive POE. Ugh, not enough coffee to get it.


Please help

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Sam Lambie > wrote:


Forrest,
Please forgive me for my ignorance, but what jumpers are needed to
make this puppy gigabit for the Cambium Medusa? I see: Pin 1 Upper
2, Pin 2 Upper 2, Pin3 Bottom 2, Pins 4 and 5 Upper1
Or is there documentation on how to set these puppies?
Thanks
Sam

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 10:08 AM, > wrote:

Matt, sending you a note off list.

-Original Message- From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor
with Medusa

OK, so grounds are related to the problem.

There may be something unusual with timing pulses on the
power that is
causing the surge suppressor to fire.
Forrest would know much more than I about that.

I honestly don’t know if anyone has tried my product with
a Medusa before.
I have a 100% gas tube version that may solve the problem.


I am still having some troubles with PTP450i holding 1gbit
ethernet
even with Cambium sync.  Not near as bad with Cambium Sync though.
Will these gas tube versions work any better? Will they still keep
equipment safe?




-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*

Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com 




--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus

[George Skorup]

Chicago -- Chee-kaw-guh, which is apparently not too far off from the 
native pronunciation and means stinky land or something like that.


On 3/29/2018 1:02 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Shenando... not Shenando-ah, Pennsylvania

On 3/29/18 2:00 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Dubois Pennsylvania = Dew-Boys.  If you use the French pronunciation 
they'll correct you.
Beethoven Street in Binghamton, NY = Beet`-uh-ven.  Apparently not a 
German composer.




-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/29/2018 1:56:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus


How about Hurricane, Utah.

Her-a-kin

-Original Message- From: Layne Sisk
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 11:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus

I have 2 of them from Utah.

Juab-  in Utah it is Jew-ab
Tooele- in Utah it is To-ill-a

Layne Sisk
ServerPlus
801.426.8283, ext 102






-Original Message-
From: Af  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 12:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus

It's a real town in Alabama by the way.

Jay Weekley wrote:

Anyone want to guess how you pronounce Ewtah?

CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

Arab
Mobile
just to name a few...

   - Original Message -
   *From:* Josh Luthman 
   *To:* af@afmug.com 
   *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2018 9:17 AM
   *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus

   Here in Ohio it's very easy to know you're not from this neck of
   the woods (probably western third of the state)...

   It's Russia, not Russia.
   It's Piqua, not Piqua.
   It's Houston, not Houston.
   It's Rio Grande, not Rio Grande.


   Josh Luthman
   Office: 937-552-2340
   Direct: 937-552-2343
   1100 Wayne St
   Suite 1337
   Troy, OH 45373

   On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:33 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
   >
wrote:

   I would certainly disagree with that.  If someone does not
   know how to pronounce our community names it would 100% tick
   me off and clue me into knowing whomever I'm talking to is not
   here...

   - Original Message -
   *From:* Lewis Bergman 
   *To:* af@afmug.com 
   *Sent:* Sunday, March 25, 2018 5:32 AM
   *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus

   I would say that if you want local pronunciations of words
   you should run your open tech support.

   I don't think most people care. They are normally happy
   just to have someone speak English that they can
   understand. Until you get about 8000 subs I doubt you can
   do it anywhere close to the cost that Lane can.

   On Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 3:42 PM Josh Reynolds
   > 
wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyJXDdlD4jQ


   "IN-DE GO" :)

   On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 7:45 AM, Matt Hoppes
   > wrote:

   It’s In Di Go. Like the color. Not In Dee Go. Like
   a butchered version of the six fingered man.

   On Mar 14, 2018, at 04:27, Josh Reynolds
   > wrote:


   That's how it's pronounced...

   Maybe a regional thing?

   On Mar 11, 2018 2:02 PM, "Matt Hoppes"
   > wrote:

   GTC does this too. I don’t know why it’s so
   hard.

   The company I used to work for was “Indigo
   Wireless”. They always say In Dee Go.

   On Mar 11, 2018, at 14:50, Sterling Jacobson
   > wrote:


   They are working well for us, and I have a
   horrible generic support DT, lol!

   I have had zero complaints from my customers
   so far this year, so I think they are doing
   well.

   The only feedback I’ve had is customers hear
   our company name pronounced five different
   ways, even though the DT instructs the
   proper pronunciation.

   But it’s a made-up name so my customer are
   always confused on pronunciation themselves.

   *From:* Af > *On Behalf Of
*ch...@wbmfg.com 
   *Sent:* Saturday, March 10, 2018 

Re: [AFMUG] GPS antennas

[George Skorup]

You'll typically see GPS use standard SMA, not RP-SMA, if only to 
differentiate GPS and RF outputs. Cambium ePMP APs are this way. We also 
use some CDMA to POTS boxes that are set up this way as well.


I've also seen some GPS-disciplined 2-way simulcast oscillators use BNC. 
Most techs/installers typically convert that to N anyway and use LMR-400 
or 1/2" hard-line out to the antenna.


So my vote would be N because it's common and easy.

On 3/27/2018 8:54 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
But if you have to install an outdoor GPS antenna, are you OK with 
terminating an SMA on a cable for that?  Like RG58 or LMR195?

*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 27, 2018 7:49 PM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] GPS antennas
SMA is what I use on GPS and even on GPS repeaters Installed in 
several manufacturing plants across border.


Jaime Solorza
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018, 7:39 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

What kind of GPS antennas does everyone prefer for outdoor mounting?
What kind of RF connectors are prefered?
I have a BITS clock completed (sans framing, will get back to that
someday). It is rack mounted.
But we have to cable it to an outside antenna.  So, the installers
will most likely have to terminate the cable.
BNC, N, F, SMA, Mini UHF, UHF, lotsa options.
What does the CMM family use for antennas and connectors?

Re: [AFMUG] Cheap consumer level SNMP capable UPS?

[George Skorup]

/system ups print oid

On 3/27/2018 1:05 PM, Justin Marshall wrote:


You are monitoring a UPS connected to a Mikrotik via USB using SNMP?  
Are you running the SNMP queries from the Mikrotik itself, or is the 
APC able to have an IP address you can query directly?


Can you give an example model of APC that allows this?

Thanks,

Justin

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason Wilson
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 27, 2018 1:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cheap consumer level SNMP capable UPS?

Most APC’s can be monitored over USP through a Mikrotik router (anyone 
with a USB port).  That is what we do for out smaller site, in-fact we 
usually add external batteries for longer runtime.


Jason

Jason Wilson

Remotely Located

Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.

530-651-1736 Office

530-748-9608 Cell

www.remotelylocated.com 



On Mar 27, 2018, at 10:47 AM, Justin Marshall > wrote:


Hi,

Does anyone know of any cheap consumer level UPS’s that can be 
monitored via SNMP over ethernet?


Something non-rack mountable and that doesn’t require external batteries?

Everything I find wants to be monitored through USB with proprietary 
programs like Powerchute, etc…


Thanks,

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

[George Skorup]

Open up the injector. The jumper positions are printed on the board. Top 
left I believe.


The default is -4/5 +7/8 and PowerA input on all four ports. So if you 
just plugged it in without any jumper changes, then you're pretty much 
trying to put ~1.5A on a single pair (one pair positive, the other 
return). That's probably ungood.


Jumper the other two pairs so you get -4/5 +7/8 -1/2 +3/6. Try the SS 
again and see if the port trips.


On 3/26/2018 5:10 PM, Sam Lambie wrote:
Well, since I don't have any spares of the *PowerInjector Plus Sync - 
Gigabit Version,* I bought a couple as I have plans for other 
locations for Medusas. In the meantime, please tell me how to make 
sure that the jumpers are set correctly.


On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM, Sam Lambie > wrote:


GPS is not physically connected to input of SyncInjector now daisy
chained from the other Syncinjectors, the AP is getting timing
from Syncbox jr via UGPS power setting on radio . Cat6 is 115' long.
I didn't even know that jumpering was an option. I guess I have to
RTFM for the jumper location on the syncinjector? Can you please
point me to the manual? I have never been able to find any
documentation on these things...

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 12:10 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
> wrote:

Oh, and you have the injector jumpered for all 4 pairs?

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 12:09 PM Forrest Christian (List
Account) >
wrote:

Is the sync pulse disabled or no gps receiver connected?

How long of a wire?

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 9:52 AM Sam Lambie
> wrote:

Timing is being done on the Aux Port. Nothing going
through the Power Port. I'll give the Gas tube version
a shot if you got it.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:37 AM, > wrote:

OK, so grounds are related to the problem.
There may be something unusual with timing pulses
on the power that is causing the surge suppressor
to fire.
Forrest would know much more than I about that.
I honestly don’t know if anyone has tried my
product with a Medusa before.
I have a 100% gas tube version that may solve the
problem.
*From:* Sam Lambie
*Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2018 9:18 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge
suppressor with Medusa
I did pull it from the rack and let it float, no
change, however, I didn't reboot it while the card
was floating.
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 3:15 PM, 
wrote:

When this gets sent
Sorry you are having difficulty.
I would pull it from the rack and see if the
interruption of the ground fixes the problem.
The issue is either noise to/from the ground.
or
Transverse impulses getting clamped. Could be
something about the new timing stuff that I
don’t understand.
Forrest is probably better versed in thinking
about this than I am.
Perhaps the server got launched by Elon Musk
and the time delay is just accumulating.
*From:* Sam Lambie
*Sent:* Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge
suppressor with Medusa
Yo smart folks,
I put a gige APC HV rack mount surge
suppressor inline with a Cambium Medusa today.
It booted up, got in about 20 pings and then
the Packetflux SyncInjector shutdown. Tried
putting the Ethernet cable directly in the
SyncInjector and it worked, just like on the
bench when I tested Sync (via Aux Jr) and
Power- Data. I never tested a surge
suppressor. Which ones work with the thing?
Chuck, What say you?
Sam
-- 
 

Re: [AFMUG] wbmfg APC Surge Suppressor with Cambium Medusa?

[George Skorup]

IIRC, 1 flash = port #1 is tripped. 20 seconds sounds like boot up and 
then RF initialization puts it over the edge. That's pretty odd since 
Chuck has tested the GigE modules over 1A per pair. But the SS is 
obviously clamping if the port is tripping.


On 3/26/2018 9:54 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
I sent a request to the list last week, but I think it got eaten but 
the list monsters.
Last week, I installed a Cambium Medusa at one of my sites, replacing 
a 450 AP. I removed the APC surge suppressor and put in a gige HV 
model for the Medusa. It fires up, pings for about 20 seconds and then 
the whole SyncInjector looks like it shuts down. I get a 1 blink error 
code.
When I take the SS out of the equation, it works fine. The only thing 
that I can think of is that the switch is a 2960 Cisco 10/100 and it 
can't handle the auto negotiation?


Basic layout of Network back to Switch is this:
Medusa > Cat6 100' (Tested at 1gig) > WBMFG APC SS > Packet Flux Gig 
SyncInjector powered by Traco  DIN rail PSU > Data out to Cisco 2960.
Medusa is getting Sync from Sync Box Jr at Antenna location via Aux 
port (UGPS power enabled)


Thanks!
Sam
--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

[George Skorup]

Not the actual RF channel frequencies up the coax. Intermediate 
frequency + power like a split IDU/ODU licensed PTP, which has been a 
reliable method for decades.


On 3/25/2018 3:45 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

No. I sent that days ago.

Ok. Why a split though?  Just to offload some of the cost to a one time 
purchase?

If that’s the case I hope for a one or two ODU model as well.

Also coax will not scale well on some of these frequencies. There’s a reason 
everything has gone to Tower mount - even in the cellular world.

Do you know how much 100ft of low PIM cable will cost?  Plus the db loss.


On Mar 25, 2018, at 07:47, Adam Moffett  wrote:

Free Unicorn with every purchase.

It's a split system.  Your EPC is built into the indoor end of the split 
system, and you run coax up to a radio head on the tower.  The indoor unit is 
supposed to have 8 ports.

Other than that we know about design goals, but not specifics.  Their goal is 
to give you the benefits of LTE, but make it easier/more accessible.  Price was 
said to be in between Telrad and Baicells.

I'm hoping they make a smaller IDU, because at lots of sites we'd pay for 8 
ports and use 1 or 2 of them.

Is list magically working now?


-- Original Message --
From: "Matt Hoppes" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/21/2018 3:36:39 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE


What’s known about the Cambium LTE product so far?

Re: [AFMUG] RF Calibration Failure ADI Catalina R0 chip not supported!

[George Skorup]

Definitely hardware failure. Had a dozen or so SMs with the ADI chip 
fail a few hours after install. Went on for about a week so we started 
letting new SMs run on the bench over night before deploying them. Found 
a couple more that way. Cambium RMA'd all of them. If it's an AP that's 
been up for two years, then you're probably SOL.


On 3/21/2018 12:08 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
This was a known issue back in the day.  Don't remember if it was a 
hardware thing or a software thing.   I'm assuming you've got the 
latest supported firmware in it?




On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 8:21 AM, Andreas Wiatowski 
> wrote:


Hi All,

I’ve never seen this before…but it looks like I have a broken
AP…any way to fix without a climb??

450 AP 2.4Ghz

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO

Silo Wireless Inc.

1-866-727-4138 x-600 

http://www.silowireless.com 

Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

Silo Wireless is a Proud Member of:

CanWISP http://www.canwisp.ca

WISPA http://wispa.org

Brantford Brant Chamber of Commerce

Paris Chamber of Commerce

Cambridge Chamber of Commerce

_

The contents of this email message and any attachments are
intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and may be legally protected from
disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message
or their agent, or if this message has been addressed to you in
error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then
delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,
dissemination, copying, or storage of this message or its
attachments is strictly prohibited.




--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 

[AFMUG] list dead?

[George Skorup]

Did the list dieded or is it just me?

Re: [AFMUG] PMP 320 SM Power Supply

[George Skorup]

The 320 CPE is Gemtek OEM. It's 802.3af. It's only the 320 and 430 APs 
that were the stupid split-pair power scheme, passive 48VDC only.


On 3/15/2018 1:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

i don't think it's in compliance with those standards.

i believe it uses the same power scheme as the PMP430 AP which is 
48Vdc split pair.


here's a link to the cambium support site that has all the manuals and 
spec sheets: https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/files/pmp320/


-sean



On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 3:23 AM, Justin Marshall > wrote:


Hi,

Does anyone know which POE standard the 320 SM is in compliance
with? 802.3af/ad/at/etc?

Thanks,

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Animal Farm Summer 2018

[George Skorup]

Nope. Asshole is short for George. Or so I'm told.

On 3/8/2018 3:28 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

http://www.whatsinaname.net/male-names/Geo.html
Probably an old fart thing.
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2018 2:12 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Animal Farm Summer 2018
I don't recall ever having heard anyone refer to George Washington as 
Geo before... but I did know that Geo is the diminutive of George...

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Geo is the diminutive of George.
Geo Washington but I guess Canadians don’t know this kind of
stuff..   ;-)
*From:* Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2018 1:27 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Animal Farm Summer 2018
Who is "Geo Orwell", or is that the hip peoples' way to refer to
the author?
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Registration is now open:
http://www.afmug.com/
The sponsor info is old, but maybe they will all offer to
sponsor.
Really, trying to get Ditchwitch, Vermeer, Preformed Line
Products etc to sponsor as that is the kind of stuff we will
be discussing.

Re: [AFMUG] WispAmerica AF11x to Remec adapter

[George Skorup]

...why? I've swapped several Exalt diplexers in the field.

Yes, it would require a more traditional design. Just sayin.

On 3/6/2018 11:38 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

The waveguide interface would limit the ability to change the diplexers ..
I think

On 3/6/18, 12:49 PM, "Af on behalf of George Skorup" <af-boun...@afmug.com

*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

on behalf of george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

>I would think it's in UBNT's best interest to keep supplying you with
>the boots since it will help them sell the AF11. How many of us have
>dishes on towers with Remec ODUs? A lot.
>
>OTOH, silicone-rubber tape is cheap. The boots obviously make it easier
>to replace a failed radio though.
>
>I still don't understand why it wasn't just a waveguide interface from
>the get-go, but whatever.
>
>On 3/6/2018 10:36 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> I have been selling them one off at $175 each but I truly don't know
>> my costs yet.� The price may get adjusted after I actually ship a
>> quantity so I know my real production volume pricing.
>>
>> N on the radio, SMA on the feedhorn.
>>
>> UBNT has been supplying the boots to me... so far.
>>
>> The SMA ships with a chunk of heat shrink to seal it.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 9:03 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WispAmerica AF11x to Remec adapter
>>
>> Price, and how do we order them?� Are those Customer Jumpers, or N to
>> N?� What are the weatherproofing options?
>>
>> On 3/6/2018 9:52 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> Booth was extra hard to set up our display.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WispAmerica AF11x to Remec adapter

[George Skorup]

I would think it's in UBNT's best interest to keep supplying you with 
the boots since it will help them sell the AF11. How many of us have 
dishes on towers with Remec ODUs? A lot.


OTOH, silicone-rubber tape is cheap. The boots obviously make it easier 
to replace a failed radio though.


I still don't understand why it wasn't just a waveguide interface from 
the get-go, but whatever.


On 3/6/2018 10:36 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I have been selling them one off at $175 each but I truly don't know 
my costs yet.  The price may get adjusted after I actually ship a 
quantity so I know my real production volume pricing.


N on the radio, SMA on the feedhorn.

UBNT has been supplying the boots to me... so far.

The SMA ships with a chunk of heat shrink to seal it.

-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 9:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WispAmerica AF11x to Remec adapter

Price, and how do we order them?  Are those Customer Jumpers, or N to
N?  What are the weatherproofing options?

On 3/6/2018 9:52 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Booth was extra hard to set up our display.

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber patch cables retail in central il?

[George Skorup]

If you have aqua OM3 or OM4 MMF patch cables, use them. You'll have no 
problems at a couple hundred feet with 10 or 20km optics. Hell, even OM1 
or OM2 cables would probably work fine. Never tried it though.


I put some 20k FS SFPs in new switches in the office and of course 
didn't have any single-mode cables for the patch panel at the rack. 20 
and 30 meter runs to the remote switches. I used the OM4 cables I had 
for over a week. Worked fine.


On 3/3/2018 11:14 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Lc lc single mode. Fs.com had an issue at the beginning of the week 
accepting cc payment. My contractor was going to bring spares. May 
just have him splice the factory ends he cut off the fiber. Was hoping 
some joint in bloominton carried them. This fiver to the radio thing 
is new to us. I only ordered the top side patch, not the bottom. Live 
and learn.


On the bench, multimode patches worked between the switches, 
anrhything to stop me from using those before the fs order drops? This 
is 100 and 200 foot.


On Mar 3, 2018 9:36 PM, "Justin Wilson" > wrote:


What do you need? Im near Danville Illinois and have some LC-LC
cables.   Also have some LC-SC.   I think all mine are 1 meter.

Other than that  I don’t know of anyone until you get to
Indianapolis.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net 

www.mtin.net 
www.midwest-ix.com 


On Mar 3, 2018, at 7:15 PM, Steve Jones
> wrote:

Is there a place in central illinois that retails single mode lc
patch cables a guy could go pick 4 up at?

Re: [AFMUG] Best budget cat5 for tower sites?

[George Skorup]

We've had zero issues with the Shireen DC-1042 dry gel cable on towers.

On 2/27/2018 8:28 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
I would stay way from shireen I had problems with it go with RF Armor 
cable for 113-137 you cant beat it.





-Original Message-
From: "can...@believewireless.net
" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 02/27/18 09:11
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best budget cat5 for tower sites?

Shireen cable has never let us down. $175/box and has HDPE shell.


https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/dc-1021-outdoor-cat5e-ftp-shielded-1000ft-spool

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Jon Langeler
> wrote:

Who's got the best budget cat5 these days that at least has
hdpe or nylon shell? What is everyone using for tower sites?

Preferably $180/box or less

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] LC to FC Fiber Optic Adapter - Any experience?

[George Skorup]

I used some LC to ST for something or other once upon a time and didn't 
have any issues.


On 2/22/2018 6:13 PM, Jeremy wrote:
Single mode.  This is the issue.  We already have a multimode and a 
singlemode fiber in the conduit.  We have LC Duplex on both ends of 
both cables.  We used to run into the upstream Cisco DeMarc.  Now, we 
are doing a direct handoff 10G into their fiber distribution panel.


On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 5:04 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
> wrote:


Question:-
What is the type of existing cable you have currently in place ?
Single Mode Fiber (typically yellow jacket) or Multi-Mode Fiber
(typically orange jacket).


There is nothing wrong in using these adapters, they work well. 
There may be a wee bit of extra loss created, nothing different
than what is created by having a 'connector'.

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518  Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Jeremy" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, February 22, 2018 7:01:03 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] LC to FC Fiber Optic Adapter - Any experience?

Have any of you ever used one of these adapters to go from LC
to FC?  I'm trying to decide if I should pull a new cable or
just adapt it.  It is for a 10G connection, and I don't know
if the adapters are reliable or if they are another potential
point of failure.
Example: https://www.fs.com/products/12086.html

Re: [AFMUG] UPS

[George Skorup]

Yeah, that's the same price I got. So, uh, nevermind. Not for $700 a 
pop. I'll find something else for smaller sites that need >200W. I 
imagine we'll be moving lots of sites to 19" cabinets and full 
rectifiers. I'm just done with running out of cabinet space.


On 2/21/2018 2:03 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

From Alpha directly.  ~$700 or so.  They are -48VDC.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:


Where are you sourcing the cordex units? What's the pricing like?

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

I think we're just going to move to the Cordex PSU because we
seem to be right at the edge of outgrowing the BCMU's at
nearly every site.

On 2/21/2018 12:01 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

There is always this:


https://www.alpha.ca/solutions/solutions-alpha-catalog/standard-systems/dc-power-solutions/item/cordex-psu

<https://www.alpha.ca/solutions/solutions-alpha-catalog/standard-systems/dc-power-solutions/item/cordex-psu>

For smaller sites, we usually roll a Meanwell PSU/Traco UPS
solution.  For 150W @ 24/48V, this is certainly what I would do.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

I use Alpha FXM1100 for my fiber cabinets and four
external batteries.

I need something a bit less for a smaller wall mount cabinet.

What are people using now days for small WISP cabinet UPS?

I need to power maybe a couple of 11W routers/switches
and maybe 3-6 radios at around 10W peak each.

So maybe 150W power draw keep alive for a few hours.

Would be good if it's temperature tolerant and network
manageable.

Re: [AFMUG] UPS

[George Skorup]

I think we're just going to move to the Cordex PSU because we seem to be 
right at the edge of outgrowing the BCMU's at nearly every site.


On 2/21/2018 12:01 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

There is always this:

https://www.alpha.ca/solutions/solutions-alpha-catalog/standard-systems/dc-power-solutions/item/cordex-psu

For smaller sites, we usually roll a Meanwell PSU/Traco UPS solution.  
For 150W @ 24/48V, this is certainly what I would do.


On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:


I use Alpha FXM1100 for my fiber cabinets and four external batteries.

I need something a bit less for a smaller wall mount cabinet.

What are people using now days for small WISP cabinet UPS?

I need to power maybe a couple of 11W routers/switches and maybe
3-6 radios at around 10W peak each.

So maybe 150W power draw keep alive for a few hours.

Would be good if it's temperature tolerant and network manageable.

[AFMUG] Lumina management subnet

[George Skorup]

Apparently I'm stupid or just not searching with the right terminology. 
What's the command to make two Lumina's communicate remote statuses when 
in different subnets?

Re: [AFMUG] Trango ApexPlus 11GHz

[George Skorup]

Giga/ApexPlus and Giga/ApexLynx are all Remec circular/round, except 
6GHz which I believe is rectangular. Giga = split, Apex = full outdoor. 
Both use the same ODUs, Remec or WaveLab OEM. Trango pretty much just 
made the IDUs and OMUs and their software.


I know this for a fact because I had to make absolutely sure we ordered 
RadioWaves HPx-11R and not 11RR for some ApexPlus we did a few years 
ago. R = Remec circular, RR = Remec rectangular, not round!


On 2/14/2018 4:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Anyone know for sure if Trango ApexPlus 11GHz is a Remec mount?

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on theTrango List

[George Skorup]

Cool. And I assume that's no coincidence with Trango calling it quits.

On 2/14/2018 1:36 PM, Jeremy wrote:
No, PTP820 is Ceragon.  They just released an adapter that will 
interface with the Trango dishes.


On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


PTP820 is also Remec is it not?
*From:* George Skorup
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:20 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This
should be on theTrango List
Possibly stupid question. Most of what we have deployed are 11GHz
ApexPlus. That is a Remec circular/round interface. Is there an
adapter to move to IP20/PTP820 S and/or C?

On 2/14/2018 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I can build N connector adapters for the antenna too if you
choose a connectorized radio.
*From:* Jeremy
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This
should be on theTrango List
Yeah, this particular link is 6GHz.  She said that she could
maybe get me some Wavelab heads, but if I am replacing all four
radios I may as well go with a manufacturer that is actually in
business, and can support their products.  I am just going to
replace the link with a higher capacity product and move it
elsewhere.  If I need a custom adapter I'll let you know, thanks!
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>
wrote:

U.. there is a strange AF11x to Remec adapter that
does actually exist, (even though Gino is probably given up
hope that that is so.  I have some done for Gino.  Just not
shipped yet.)
But if you need a interspecies adapter from anything to
anything, let me know.  I can typically do one for less than
the cost of a new dish/dish install.
*From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:18 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This
should be on theTrango List
I expect that there will be a robust used market as people
move to other platforms.  I know at least one manufacturer
that has Trango adapters for dishes too.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 <tel:%28312%29%20205-2519> Office
574-220-7826 <tel:%28574%29%20220-7826> Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Feb 14, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com>
wrote:


My radios are Remecand Laurie says she can no longer get
any Remec heads, even at MSRP.
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Nate Burke
<n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:

They must still have a stockpile of equipment
somewhere.  I just sent an Apex Plus radio in for repair
a couple weeks ago.  They said they couldn't repair it,
but offered me the option to buy a new one at full MSRP.
But yes, almost everyone is gone from Trango.  The
person I was initially working with on the repair was
gone from Trango by the time I actually sent the radio in.

On 2/14/2018 9:45 AM, Jeremy wrote:

On another note; Did everyone here know that Trango is
pretty much out of business?  No sales force, no sales,
RMA onlylikely for a limited time.  Just tried to
get radios for a 2+0 of our existing linkno dice.
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nah. Just funnin ya

Jaime Solorza
On Feb 13, 2018 6:37 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

No way
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:26 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola]
I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
...someone say Lents ending?
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

I remember that and made some comment later
about the animal farm attitude or nature of
what had happened... Chuck ran with it and
AFMUG was born. Something like that...too
many Tecates since then but it's my reality
and you all just live in it .. thinking of
giving up Lent for Lent tomorrow...

Jaime Solorza
On Feb 13, 2018 3:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"
<par..

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on theTrango List

[George Skorup]

Possibly stupid question. Most of what we have deployed are 11GHz 
ApexPlus. That is a Remec circular/round interface. Is there an adapter 
to move to IP20/PTP820 S and/or C?


On 2/14/2018 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I can build N connector adapters for the antenna too if you choose a 
connectorized radio.

*From:* Jeremy
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be 
on theTrango List
Yeah, this particular link is 6GHz.  She said that she could maybe get 
me some Wavelab heads, but if I am replacing all four radios I may as 
well go with a manufacturer that is actually in business, and can 
support their products.  I am just going to replace the link with a 
higher capacity product and move it elsewhere.  If I need a custom 
adapter I'll let you know, thanks!

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

U.. there is a strange AF11x to Remec adapter that does
actually exist, (even though Gino is probably given up hope that
that is so.  I have some done for Gino.  Just not shipped yet.)
But if you need a interspecies adapter from anything to anything,
let me know.  I can typically do one for less than the cost of a
new dish/dish install.
*From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:18 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This
should be on theTrango List
I expect that there will be a robust used market as people move to
other platforms.  I know at least one manufacturer that has Trango
adapters for dishes too.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519  Office
574-220-7826  Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Feb 14, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Jeremy  wrote:


My radios are Remecand Laurie says she can no longer get any
Remec heads, even at MSRP.
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Nate Burke 
wrote:

They must still have a stockpile of equipment somewhere.  I
just sent an Apex Plus radio in for repair a couple weeks
ago. They said they couldn't repair it, but offered me the
option to buy a new one at full MSRP.  But yes, almost
everyone is gone from Trango. The person I was initially
working with on the repair was gone from Trango by the time I
actually sent the radio in.

On 2/14/2018 9:45 AM, Jeremy wrote:

On another note; Did everyone here know that Trango is
pretty much out of business?  No sales force, no sales, RMA
onlylikely for a limited time.  Just tried to get radios
for a 2+0 of our existing linkno dice.
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Jaime Solorza
 wrote:

Nah.  Just funnin ya

Jaime Solorza
On Feb 13, 2018 6:37 PM,  wrote:

No way
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:26 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I
QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
...someone say Lents ending?
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Jaime Solorza
 wrote:

I remember that and made some comment later
about the animal farm attitude or nature of what
had happened... Chuck ran with it and AFMUG was
born. Something like that...too many Tecates
since then but it's my reality and you all just
live in it .. thinking of giving up Lent for
Lent tomorrow...

Jaime Solorza
On Feb 13, 2018 3:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"
 wrote:

is this the one?
a few messages later i see messages like this -
*To:* CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
*Subject:* Part-15 list
Are you having problems posting to the
list?  I'm getting bounce messages when
I try, and it even bounced when I tried to
email bullit directly.

Here is the message:
Invalid final delivery userid:
motor...@part-15.org

---
- Original Message -
*From:* Bullit
*To:* motor...@part-15.org
*Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[George Skorup]

.../sarcasm

On 2/13/2018 4:21 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

with special commentator "That one guy steve..."

- Original Message -
*From:* TJ Trout 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:06 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I enjoy the email check sends, it's always entertaining.

Sounds like you should just unsubscribe and head off to the UBNT
forums!

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> wrote:

Why, thank you Jay!

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519  Office
574-220-7826  Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 

On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:03 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>
wrote:


i must get 20+ messages a month from various vendors.  mostly
part of being a WISPA member.
i glance at most...but most often just use shift-delete a
whole lot.
I can mention several things I have really appreciated
getting from "spam"
* Baicells Black Friday Deal
* Jeff Broadwick's newsletter posts
*  Chuck Mccown's product announcements
I guess there are other product announcements I prefer too.
I shop at Baltic a lot, i usually read their stuff

- Original Message -
*From:* fiber...@mail.com 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
  No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you
sign up for the list.

> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming 
you, right?
  Participating on the list isn't quite the same as
inboxing me directly with a canned message.

> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
  Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to
send out unsolicited commercial messages without an
opt-in. Furthermore industry best practices include using
a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in:
https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in


  In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list
I would, unbeknownst to me and surreptitiously, be signed
up for another direct email list.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[George Skorup]

Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ 
list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down 
and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if 
that was the case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late 
and AFMUG was born. More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, 
and I believe that was hosted for a short time on the WISPA list serv?


I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t recall 
the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael was 
mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at the 
time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific - not 
that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s Chuck’s 
list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of people 
who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t say 
bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else 
if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say 
with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA).

Mark


On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[George Skorup]

One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the throughput 
based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs in the same 
frame. But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right 
conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And 
instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need only 
one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just another 
tool in the toolbox.


On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan" :)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!

friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)



On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to back
frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the clients
evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take advantage of the
MU-MIMO.

we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is 64qam).

it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing with
regular
450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would need 3
APs
each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.

win, win, win.

but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.

2 cents

-sean

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients are
short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.

It's a niche of a niche.

(I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all, I'm
just saying it's not the second coming like people make it out to be.)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude take a
chill
pill.

I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world
environment,
earning me real world dollars and conserving much needed spectrum.

It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the right
conditions
the 450m delivers.

Cheers bud

-sean



On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce
that
down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds

wrote:

Let's break this down a bit.

Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore?
*shakes head*

Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
(physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up in
the
same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the
AP
(like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead
to
cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up
getting
reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking
a
hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
system like this... so only decent in very dense situations.
That's a
unique niche.

So, 80 clients. That's a pretty average number for a modern system
(450, Mimosa, AC Prism Gen2).

30Mbps per client... okay, but most customers are actually
streaming.
Let's throw another margin on top of that and say a few Mbps for
gaming. 10Mbps is a nice round number. Now, that data gets sent in
most services in bursts and buffered, so it's not continuous.
Let's
take that average number down to about 8 Mbps. Now let's assume
that
maybe 70% of those 80 customers is doing something like that, and
that's probably a generous number. 56 customers. So 56 customers x
8Mbps = 448Mbps. On a 20Mhz channel? Wait, this doesn't seem to
work
out!

Soo 1024 QAM on a 20MHz channel gives you 250Mbps, very
roughly.
If you're optimistic about modern patterns, you're between an
80/20
and a 60/40 Download/Upload ratio on a split GPS synced system.

80/20 = 200Mbps Down, 50Mbps Up
60/40 = 150 Down, 100Mbps Up

Let's say for the sake of argument that you're in the 80/20 camp,
giving you 200Mbps to work with in above perfect conditions, gives
you
3.57 Mbps per subscriber. Roughly 4M/sub, good for 480p streaming.

That's a very expensive platform for that kind of throughput and
subscriber count with such limitations in range and needed a
"perfect
storm" of client distribution and data patterns to really take
advantage of. With working GPS in all modern platforms, I would be
hard pressed to not use an additional 20mhz channel if available,
or
just cut the channel width in half to 10MHz 

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[George Skorup]

But they work like crap a few feet apart when you're stuck in one rad 
center due to lack of front-end filtering and/or sync.


On 2/12/2018 7:50 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
These days you have lots of 5.x ghz to work with.  You've got 5.1 
through 5.8 minus that chunk of TDWR that they took out of the middle.
Any products will coexist when you have that much room to spread them 
around.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 2/12/2018 6:32:04 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] mini wisp

Talking to a friend that wants to build a small wisp.  He is about 
5.5 miles from a backbone connection.  I would suggest AF5X to him 
but he is gonna want to use 5 GHz for his wisp I presume.
Can an AF5X and some 5 GHz cambium (or others) access points 
peacefully coexist on a tower?
Very rural area.  Not expecting much interference other than home 
routers.

Re: [AFMUG] Sync injector power supply setup

[George Skorup]

Put +24/29.5 on PowerA, negative on Common/Return. The jumpers are 
default -4/5 +7/8. So just plug the radios in.


On 2/12/2018 10:46 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
What do you need help with? If I remember correctly, the jumper 
settings should be right for a PMP100 the way it comes.


On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:33 AM, Jay Weekley 
> wrote:


Help! I am in the field and  need to setup sync injector power
supply.  It's the 10 /100 to be used with pmp100.



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[George Skorup]

+1hunnit. AE for very low density makes sense. The same argument can be 
made for wireless. If you have one house on a 1 mile road, does it even 
make sense to do fiber for that one customer? And then multiply that by 
something like 5 or even 10 miles. Bring fiber to a customer and shoot a 
PTP to the house at the end of the road? Or give the customer the option 
to pay for their extra long drop?


PON makes sense when you want all (or most) of the PON features for 
things like single pane of glass monitoring and such. OTOH, there's no 
reason you can't do AE on something like a Calix shelf and get most of 
that stuff.


On 2/11/2018 9:24 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm 
looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I 
run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the 
road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than 
a 1U switch.


Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.


I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.


We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". 
In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have 
to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?
*From:* Chuck Hogg
*Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's
product with Zhone is different.
Regards,
Chuck
On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett 
wrote:

I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it
was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away
form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Jason McKemie" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to
be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any
other suggestions?
I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard
of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] EPMP AC version?

[George Skorup]

Isn't the 3k is supposed to give us 4x4 MIMO and beam steering? And not 
just uplink beam steering like the 2k BSA, but also downlink, IIRC.


On 2/9/2018 3:22 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:

The 300s will work with both legacy 1000/2000 and with the new 3000.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 

On Feb 9, 2018, at 3:13 PM, Mathew Howard > wrote:


Well, they'll support 256QAM, so if the signals are good enough, 
you'll get some more out of them because of that. Beyond that, I 
don't know that there will be much in the way of gains on a 20mhz 
channel. As far as I know, they're backwards compatible with 1000 and 
2000 APs, but it's possible something has changed there. At any rate, 
all of the old SMs should be work with the 3000 APs.


On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:


will 20mhz channels give you any more jesus juice than 20mhz
channels with the 200APs?
as i understand it its only a single revision backward compatible
though, 1000 series will not work with it but 2000 will?

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> wrote:

300s should ship from Asia, along with the PTP550s with a
week.  Figure 30-45 days from then.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519  Office
574-220-7826  Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 

On Feb 9, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Mathew Howard
> wrote:


They've been taking orders for the SM (Force 300) for
awhile, but I still haven't gotten the ones I have on
order... I expect they'll be shipping any day now. The epmp
3000 APs probably still won't be out for a few more months,
from what I've heard.

On Feb 9, 2018 11:12 AM, "Adam Moffett" > wrote:

I believe SM, but not AP

-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 2/9/2018 12:10:18 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] EPMP AC version?

Is that out yet?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] new product question

[George Skorup]

It would be cool to have 4 single-mode duplex LC couplers in that box too.

On 2/9/2018 9:47 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I can, just trying to keep cost down.� I am using my regular tower 
surge protector enclosure.

Will have 4 circuits in and 4 circuits out.
*From:* Dave
*Sent:* Friday, February 9, 2018 8:37 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] new product question
What about a single loop on the actual enclosure either at the 
convergence of cables entry or at each connector?
something like a raised loop large enough to pass 1/4" zip tie and 
small enough at each connector to pass a 1/8" zip


Dave
�

On 02/09/2018 09:30 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I am making a new tower mount multiple circuit surge protector.
This one is for multiple higher current DC power circuits/ conductors 
only.

�
Trying to come up with a good way to allow the wires to be secured.
Right now I have a series of rectangular slots in the PCB so a zip 
tie can be passed down behind the board and back up.�

�
Any better ways?


--

Re: [AFMUG] E400 voltage range

[George Skorup]

I think I tried it once and it didn't power up. Pretty sure it's 
42-58VDC only.


On 2/8/2018 9:35 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Does anyone know if 24v works?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

[George Skorup]

IMO, completely 100% wrong. You don't get to come into my house or tell 
a private company that we don't meet your moral standards. The people 
can make their own damn decisions. Stop trying to legislate morality. 
The politicians that try this stuff are usually the ones that end up 
being freaks or porn addicts.


Public institutions, schools, libraries, etc. yeah, filter away. That's 
standard here in KIllinois, too.


On 2/8/2018 11:31 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


What should really happen law wise, is that the state (Utah in this 
case) approve a group of content filtering companies for end users.


Then mandate AT MOST that the ISP allow/offer at least one of those up 
to customers as a certified filtering option.


Again, not mandatory, but as viable options that are semi-pushed from 
the ISP side, still for profit.


It’s just too much and too variant to have to mandate the ISP do any 
kind of filtering ‘mid-stream’ style.


*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2018 9:30 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

Unrelated to Chuck's thread, we started talking internally about 
offering content filtering as a value add.


An initial conversation with Trustwave seemed promising, and I'm 
supposed to have a follow up to discuss tech details later.


But does anybody still do this?  Is there still consumer interest? 
 How much are/were you selling it for?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn ..... (filtering)

[George Skorup]

Again I say not our problem. Stop trying to force us to be the police. 
We're just a dumb pipe. I'm sure someone has countered that before by 
saying the gov't says only clean water can be put in your utility/city 
provided water pipe. There's an obvious physical danger with 
contaminated water. They say it's the same, but it's not the same, 
because politicians are technologically retarded. If anything, they 
should put this on the content providers. You know, the ones that said 
Net Neutrality was needed so their content can't be blocked.


On 2/7/2018 2:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Well, not really trying to force religious ideas on the population, 
just religious ideals.
The legislation is attempting to force ISPs to offer an in-house 
filtering product.
Hopefully the bigger ISPs will fight it off.  We have an exemption for 
the smaller ISPs.

*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 7, 2018 1:19 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn . (filtering)
Escape religious persecution in England to com to America. Establish 
new Mormon religion. Escape religious persecution in all kinds of 
places to finally settle in Missouri and Utah. Attempt to force 
religious ideas on population.

Fucking. Morons.
On Feb 7, 2018 10:23 AM,  wrote:

Proposed legislation in Utah.

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 9:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn . (filtering)

Where did this post come from? I need some backstory here.

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:07 AM,   wrote:

Based on all your comments (thank you), I sent the following
to the
legislative working group:
(You guys helped me look smarter than I am ).



Some random thoughts.

If you are going to an HTTPS site, it is all encrypted.  If
you are
attempting to analyze a flow of traffic HTTPS traffic looks
the same to us
whether it is porn or online banking.

Do we also block Bit Torrent?
XBox Grand Theft Auto
Any game with online chat.  Scrub online chat during games?
All game servers
Twitter
Instagram
Youtube
News outlets
Facebook
Email
Instant messaging
Periscope
Streaming
FTP
IRC

The lowly ping facility has a space for payload.  I could send
porn via
pings if I wanted.

What is defined as harmful content?  Medical, artistic, Bible
readings?
Genesis 19, 29 etc etc.
Language, if so what language?  Bare shoulders. Knees?
Curtains blowing in the breeze.

How about what I consider pornographic music lyrics.
Do we have to police music.  Police Pandora.

There are always ways around.
For every block there is a proxy or VPN that will get you
around it.

Filters can give parents a false sense of security. Filters
are gimmicks.
Snake oil.
But we do offer them.  Not home grown.  They are 3rd party.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn ..... (filtering)

[George Skorup]

We're a dumb pipe, not the police, get off my lawn. How about you let 
people live their lives and make their own decisions.


On 2/6/2018 11:07 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Based on all your comments (thank you), I sent the following to the 
legislative working group:

(You guys helped me look smarter than I am ).
Some random thoughts.
If you are going to an HTTPS site, it is all encrypted.� If you are 
attempting to analyze a flow of traffic HTTPS traffic looks the same 
to us whether it is porn or online banking.

Do we also block Bit Torrent?
XBox Grand Theft Auto
Any game with online chat.� Scrub online chat during games?
All game servers
Twitter
Instagram
Youtube
News outlets
Facebook
Email
Instant messaging
Periscope
Streaming
FTP
IRC
The lowly ping facility has a space for payload.� I could send porn 
via pings if I wanted.
What is defined as harmful content?� Medical, artistic, Bible 
readings?� Genesis 19, 29 etc etc.

Language, if so what language?� Bare shoulders. Knees?
Curtains blowing in the breeze.
How about what I consider pornographic music lyrics.
Do we have to police music.� Police Pandora.
There are always ways around.
For every block there is a proxy or VPN that will get you around it.
Filters can give parents a false sense of security.� Filters are 
gimmicks.� Snake oil.

But we do offer them.� Not home grown.� They are 3rd party.

Re: [AFMUG] Powering a 450d SM via 24v, need polarity crossover?

[George Skorup]

The 450d is a standard 450SM board. Canopy POE polarity only. So yes, 
you'll need to reverse the blues and browns at one end.


The 450b, Force180 and Force200 are all polarity agnostic.

On 2/2/2018 3:29 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
Is anyone else powering a 450d SM with a Netonix? I'm wondering if I 
need to reverse the polarity on the cable like we do with 450 SM and 
AP. Looking at the spec sheet it just says INPUT VOLTAGE 20 TO 32 V 
which makes me think it can take a straight thru cable.

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] 450m power

[George Skorup]

Something I still really, really want is the 12 port PowerInjector+Sync. 
Make it and we'll buy it.


On 2/2/2018 5:54 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I have a preference for a switch that works.

My challenge has always been to find a chipset I trust which is fairly 
easy to integrate, is obtainable, and is available in industrial 
temperature range.   Over the years I've looked at numerous chipsets 
and have never found any that I would feel comfortable to provide to 
my customers.


The industrial temperature range issue was probably the biggest one 
since the vast majority of chipsets are only available in commercial 
range and I refuse to ship a product which contains chipset only rated 
down to freezing (there's a reason why we've never had any temperature 
related failures that we can recall).   Of the remaining chipsets, 
many of the manufacturers only sell to large-volume consumers.  They 
have no interest in doing business with an organization which doesn't 
do a million units of a product.


Well the never part was true until recently.   A trusted vendor of 
mine recently released a switch chipset with 5 Gigabit copper ports, 1 
GBIC port, and 1 management port, and which seems to be able to be 
integrated well.   I need to spend some time with the eval board which 
is sitting here, but other things have taken priority.


Over the last couple of months, we've pretty much finished all of the 
pending projects, and so I'm working on figuring out which of the 
partially started projects around here I need to pick up and run 
with.   There are some which are minimal work which will likely get 
done soon (i.e. producing medusa-compatible cambium sync products in 
various other form factors, and finishing a couple of i/o board which 
are basically done).


Of the rest, part of what I'm going to be listening to at WISPAMERICA 
is what people are needing.  I really don't want to build things 
people don't want, so I'm going to be listening as to what people are 
looking for.   I've got lots of ideas, just not sure how many of them 
are really of interest.




On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 12:52 AM, TJ Trout > wrote:


Forrest,

It would be awesome if you could ever develop products with
switches inside, I know you have a (Cisco?) preference but other's
dont.

I would have purchased lots. I hate that I have to use a separate
switch so we moved away from packetflux for new deployments.

TJ

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 11:48 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
> wrote:

I'm assuming you mean includes switch+poe.

I'm in the process of working on something specificaly for the
450i/450m with 5 ports and sync hardware all in one box (+1
SFP port), mainly designed for tower top mounting.   Not far
enough along to say when it will ship, or even if it's ever
going to see the light of day.

Any other solution you look at, you should make sure that
whatever solution you find will support at least 70W per port,
and all 4 pairs. Neither the 450i or 450m really care about
polarity, unless you're doing sync, and then only on the 450i
since the 450m does the new cambium sync only.

If you can live with separate poe box, of course the
packetflux powerinjector+sync powers 450m's really well. 
There will be a version which does medusa sync out sometime
soon, it's a sure thing, just we don't know timing yet.

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 5:07 AM, Tyson Burris
> wrote:

Good morning,

Looking for an all in one, but reliable, power source for
4 - 450m aps per tower.

I have heard netonix a few times but I have also heard
about some issues with these devices and their support not
being that great.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce

Dr.**
**Franklin, IN

46131**
***
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net* 


VIA WIRELESS


___
Members mailing list
memb...@wispa.org 
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members





-- 

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] 450m power

[George Skorup]

Could be fine for a tower-top DC+fiber fed injector(+sync)-switch. Same 
concept as the UBNT edge thing. Consider that something like this would 
need a 10G uplink if you're going to be powering and timing a 450m 
cluster. You're probably going to want at least 500Mbps to each sector. 
So only a 1G pipe up the tower isn't thinking towards the future. 
Something I think a product like this would need is an integrated 
voltage regulator. And wasn't something similar kicked around in the 
past? Instead of a switch, make it a multi port injector+sync with media 
conversion. A strand or pair per radio. Or even CWDM mux.


On 2/2/2018 6:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

and some of us hate switches in their network altogether.  :-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"TJ Trout" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, February 2, 2018 1:52:34 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] 450m power

Forrest,

It would be awesome if you could ever develop products with switches 
inside, I know you have a (Cisco?) preference but other's dont.


I would have purchased lots. I hate that I have to use a separate 
switch so we moved away from packetflux for new deployments.


TJ

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 11:48 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> wrote:


I'm assuming you mean includes switch+poe.

I'm in the process of working on something specificaly for the
450i/450m with 5 ports and sync hardware all in one box (+1 SFP
port), mainly designed for tower top mounting.   Not far enough
along to say when it will ship, or even if it's ever going to see
the light of day.

Any other solution you look at, you should make sure that whatever
solution you find will support at least 70W per port, and all 4
pairs.  Neither the 450i or 450m really care about polarity,
unless you're doing sync, and then only on the 450i since the 450m
does the new cambium sync only.

If you can live with separate poe box, of course the packetflux
powerinjector+sync powers 450m's really well.  There will be a
version which does medusa sync out sometime soon, it's a sure
thing, just we don't know timing yet.

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 5:07 AM, Tyson Burris > wrote:

Good morning,

Looking for an all in one, but reliable, power source for 4 -
450m aps per tower.

I have heard netonix a few times but I have also heard about
some issues with these devices and their support not being
that great.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce

Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net* 


VIA WIRELESS


___
Members mailing list
memb...@wispa.org 
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members




-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
59602


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[George Skorup]

Buffer mode does mean on battery. Those tolerances are probably mostly 
accurate. The BCMU "360" is really rated for 240W continuous. And then 
take off about 15W for maintaining the battery. That's exactly why I 
load them up to no more than about 220W.


When we lose utility power, I do see the voltage drop somewhere abouts 
46-47VDC. Again, the internal DC-DC converter isn't all that efficient. 
Temperature is another factor (which is why they say 3 min "boost mode").


I've got 50Ah on a couple. One site is around 165W and will run for 
almost 2 hours. Maybe a little more, I forget. About 210W on another and 
it'll run a little over an hour. Usually enough time to run out a generator.


You shouldn't be seeing 44 volts under normal operation. However, if you 
have 300W on it, and it's on battery, that really wouldn't surprise me.


On 1/30/2018 2:35 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That makes a lot more sense... I (and Paul too, I assume) must be 
reading the spec sheet wrong. I thought buffer mode was referring to 
when it was running on battery (I assumed that because of something 
else I read further down the spec sheet), but it must mean something 
else if it actually does put out 48.0v.


Output voltage / current
– Normal Mode
24 VDC mode:
Vin – (0.4 - 0.8V); 15 A max.
48 VDC mode:
Vin – (0.4 - 0.7V); 7.5 A max.
– Buffer Mode
24 VDC mode:
22.2 – 22.9 VDC; 10 A
(15 A in boost mode for 10min)
48 VDC mode:
44.6 – 45.3 VDC; 5 A
(7.5 A in boost mode for 3min)


On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 2:27 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


The BCMU360 is definitely 12VDC on the battery side. It uses an
internal DC-DC converter. I'm using several. At 24, it puts out
24.0. And at 48, it puts out 48.0. Disconnect the power supply
from the BCMU and make sure it's putting out 48.0. The transfer
relay in the BCMU runs the load direct from the supply and
switches to battery (and DC-DC) when it senses low input voltage.
It puts out regulated 48 when on battery. But when the battery
gets low, the voltage will sag. I think it's only about 80%
efficient below 12.8VDC or so.

The pot on the BCMU is to adjust the battery float voltage. It
should be set to 13.6 or 13.8 from the factory. The trick there is
that if the battery is disconnected, it doesn't put out any
voltage. I usually connect a new battery and let it sit running
over night. Then put a meter on it the next day to see where it's
at and adjust a bit if needed. You'll also want to do this at room
temp with the remote probe disconnected.

The BCMU does have LVD. IIRC, the BATT-OK contact will open at
44-45VDC to give you an early warning. I believe the LVD cutoff is
about 42VDC (which means the batt will be at 10.5, or 1.75 volts
per cell which is a good limit for a stand-by UPS).

If you're getting 44 volts, as I said, check that the voltage
adjust pot on the supply is set correctly with no load. Or you
have too much load on it. I'm looking at a SiteMonitor right now
and it shows 47.6. The 5ch PDU reports Vin = 480. TSP180-148 +
BCMU360. Using about 100W at that site. I've got 200-ish foot runs
and the radios all run fine.

On 1/30/2018 12:49 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

If I'm looking at the same thing, that one has a built in AC/DC
power supply... it's just adjusting the output voltage of the
power supply, and there's no DC-DC converter involved, so it
makes sense to just run on battery voltage (as far as I can tell
it needs 24v or 48v batteries).

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net
<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

Yet, the BCM-148 says adjustable Output up to 54v.  Unless
you are on battery.  Silly

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:35 PM


*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and
upconverts it to 48V.  It charges the battery array (in
parallel) to about 13v per batter. So, why in the world they
would design a device that would upconvert that to anything
less than 48v (without load) is just silly.  We have UBNT
EP-S16s that will not turn on radios plugged in, if it gets
anything less than 45.5 to 46 volts.

But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it
seems to have the same design)  45v max output when on battery.

Pretty bizzare

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam
Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[George Skorup]

The BCMU360 is definitely 12VDC on the battery side. It uses an internal 
DC-DC converter. I'm using several. At 24, it puts out 24.0. And at 48, 
it puts out 48.0. Disconnect the power supply from the BCMU and make 
sure it's putting out 48.0. The transfer relay in the BCMU runs the load 
direct from the supply and switches to battery (and DC-DC) when it 
senses low input voltage. It puts out regulated 48 when on battery. But 
when the battery gets low, the voltage will sag. I think it's only about 
80% efficient below 12.8VDC or so.


The pot on the BCMU is to adjust the battery float voltage. It should be 
set to 13.6 or 13.8 from the factory. The trick there is that if the 
battery is disconnected, it doesn't put out any voltage. I usually 
connect a new battery and let it sit running over night. Then put a 
meter on it the next day to see where it's at and adjust a bit if 
needed. You'll also want to do this at room temp with the remote probe 
disconnected.


The BCMU does have LVD. IIRC, the BATT-OK contact will open at 44-45VDC 
to give you an early warning. I believe the LVD cutoff is about 42VDC 
(which means the batt will be at 10.5, or 1.75 volts per cell which is a 
good limit for a stand-by UPS).


If you're getting 44 volts, as I said, check that the voltage adjust pot 
on the supply is set correctly with no load. Or you have too much load 
on it. I'm looking at a SiteMonitor right now and it shows 47.6. The 5ch 
PDU reports Vin = 480. TSP180-148 + BCMU360. Using about 100W at that 
site. I've got 200-ish foot runs and the radios all run fine.


On 1/30/2018 12:49 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
If I'm looking at the same thing, that one has a built in AC/DC power 
supply... it's just adjusting the output voltage of the power supply, 
and there's no DC-DC converter involved, so it makes sense to just run 
on battery voltage (as far as I can tell it needs 24v or 48v batteries).


On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Paul McCall > wrote:


Yet, the BCM-148 says adjustable Output up to 54v.  Unless you are
on battery.  Silly

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:35 PM


*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts
it to 48V.  It charges the battery array (in parallel) to about
13v per batter.  So, why in the world they would design a device
that would upconvert that to anything less than 48v (without load)
is just silly.  We have UBNT EP-S16s that will not turn on radios
plugged in, if it gets anything less than 45.5 to 46 volts.

But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems
to have the same design)  45v max output when on battery.

Pretty bizzare

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load
being on battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal
behavior for these types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt
for something that does it differently.

You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC
converter inline.

I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the
whole range from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so
I'm wondering what that device is that needs >46v.

.and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it
actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago,
and we now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no
longer charge batteries.  I also received a whole box of them
where the sticker indicating which pin does what on the BCM was
100% backwards. By following the sticker rather than the manual I
ended up with the temperature sensor (thermistor) connected to the
reset switch.  Didn't break anything, but they units won't turn on
that way.

At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than
Meanwell's 48V options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think
I'd go there again.

-- Original Message --

From: "Paul McCall" >

To: "af@afmug.com " >

Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM

Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very
usable in the real world?

Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple
minutes, then 44v and change), when running on the battery.
Not very usable with some gear that requires about 46v to work
properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long run 

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[George Skorup]

Oh wait, but... the 802.3at compliant 1009's *might* be OK with -48 on 
the POE input only. Like Forrest said recently, nearly all 3at devices 
use an isolated power circuit. But it's MikroTik, so who the hell knows. 
Like when they say 10-28vdc, sometimes it means 12-25.


On 1/29/2018 1:58 PM, George Skorup wrote:

No, pretty sure the 1009's are chassis bonded, so you're stuck with +48.

On 1/29/2018 1:56 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
Yeah - but I want to power it directly off a -48VDC rail (like we do 
with +48VDC).


On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 2:56 PM, David Coudron 
<david.coud...@advantenon.com <mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> 
wrote:


Yep, it says it will do 15-57V POE in.  At least the model we use
does.

David Coudron

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
*Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 1:53 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Hmm - do you know if the CCR1009 supports -/+48VDC?

On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 2:47 PM, George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

RackInjector, dude. RackInjector.

And you can swap that 1100AHx2 for an 1100AHx4. The DC input
on the back supports - or + 48.

On 1/29/2018 11:56 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

That looks to meet alot of our need, though the 48 volt

SAF recommended Eltek minipack system, i havent priced that

This is what most of our sites have (theres some
depreciating ubnt sectors too)

4x EPMP access point/Paketflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-48

4x AP320/Packetflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-24

Sitemonitor/cambium wallwort

1-2 backhauls (unlic: epmp, ptp500, UBNT rocket) (lic:
SAF or Mimosa)

RB1100AHX2 (AC power)

HP 1810 24g switch (AC power)

APC 750xl or 1000xl w/management card

This is probably one of our more heavily populated sites

4x ap320/packetflux/meanwell 48v

4x fsk/packetflux/meanwell 24v

4x EPMP/packetflux/ meanwell 48v

2x UBNT Nanobridge private APs/ubnt PS

2x SAF Lumina/ SAF PS (will be 1x lumina and 2x Integra soon)

3x UBNT rocket M5/UBNT PS

1x EPMP force 200/EPMP PS

1x PTP 650/Cambium PS

1x sitemonitor/cambium 29v PS

1x RB1100AHX2/AC power

1x HP 1810g 24/AC power

APC 1500XL + 2 External packs and management card

the AC fans run on the utility side because I dont have
the battery budget

Cabling is a shitshow with all the AC powercords and
branded power supplies too.

I assume the APC UPS runtime is wasted with all the power
supplies.

Scalability is a factor as well, so far we havent
justified 450m but may soon and we will roll some LTE in
the near term which will add substantial demand

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:39 PM, David Coudron
<david.coud...@advantenon.com
<mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:

Here is what we are doing, I think this is close to
what Steve is asking for:

Meanwell SDR-240-24 AC to DC power source:  $84

Meanwell DR-UPS40 Battery Float/UPS:  $37

Tycon TPDIN MonitorWeb2:  $131

24 V of battery backup $70-120 depending on the
runtime looking for

Netonix 150 W or 250 DC switch:   $250-350 (This is
really the only expensive component)

Heater: $65

Fan: $14

With this, we can run 5-8 hours on very small
batteries, we figure we have several hours to get a
generator to the site if power isn’t coming back.  
We run all POE from the Netonix, it works really
well.   Here are the other things we can do with the box:

 1. Monitor temp in the cabinet
 2. Monitor/alert on loss of AC line power through TP DIN
 3. Monitor voltage of the batteries
 4. Monitor voltage to the Netonix
 5. Monitor Current to the Netonix
 6. Monitor Current in/out of the batteries
 7. Auto start the heater below 40 degrees
 8. Auto start the fan above 80 degrees
 9. Power cycle the netonix from the TP DIN
10. Power cycle any AP, Router, Backhaul from the Netonix

We also put a Mikrotik router in this cabinet.  
Usually a Hex POE (for small sites) or a 3011 for
larger sites.

   

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[George Skorup]

No, pretty sure the 1009's are chassis bonded, so you're stuck with +48.

On 1/29/2018 1:56 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
Yeah - but I want to power it directly off a -48VDC rail (like we do 
with +48VDC).


On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 2:56 PM, David Coudron 
<david.coud...@advantenon.com <mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> 
wrote:


Yep, it says it will do 15-57V POE in.  At least the model we use
does.

David Coudron

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
*Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 1:53 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Hmm - do you know if the CCR1009 supports -/+48VDC?

On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 2:47 PM, George Skorup
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

RackInjector, dude. RackInjector.

And you can swap that 1100AHx2 for an 1100AHx4. The DC input
on the back supports - or + 48.

On 1/29/2018 11:56 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

That looks to meet alot of our need, though the 48 volt

SAF recommended Eltek minipack system, i havent priced that

This is what most of our sites have (theres some
depreciating ubnt sectors too)

4x EPMP access point/Paketflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-48

4x AP320/Packetflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-24

Sitemonitor/cambium wallwort

1-2 backhauls (unlic: epmp, ptp500, UBNT rocket) (lic: SAF
or Mimosa)

RB1100AHX2 (AC power)

HP 1810 24g switch (AC power)

APC 750xl or 1000xl w/management card

This is probably one of our more heavily populated sites

4x ap320/packetflux/meanwell 48v

4x fsk/packetflux/meanwell 24v

4x EPMP/packetflux/ meanwell 48v

2x UBNT Nanobridge private APs/ubnt PS

2x SAF Lumina/ SAF PS (will be 1x lumina and 2x Integra soon)

3x UBNT rocket M5/UBNT PS

1x EPMP force 200/EPMP PS

1x PTP 650/Cambium PS

1x sitemonitor/cambium 29v PS

1x RB1100AHX2/AC power

1x HP 1810g 24/AC power

APC 1500XL + 2 External packs and management card

the AC fans run on the utility side because I dont have
the battery budget

Cabling is a shitshow with all the AC powercords and
branded power supplies too.

I assume the APC UPS runtime is wasted with all the power
supplies.

Scalability is a factor as well, so far we havent
justified 450m but may soon and we will roll some LTE in
the near term which will add substantial demand

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:39 PM, David Coudron
<david.coud...@advantenon.com
<mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:

Here is what we are doing, I think this is close to
what Steve is asking for:

Meanwell SDR-240-24 AC to DC power source:  $84

Meanwell DR-UPS40 Battery Float/UPS:  $37

Tycon TPDIN MonitorWeb2:  $131

24 V of battery backup $70-120 depending on the
runtime looking for

Netonix 150 W or 250 DC switch: $250-350  (This is
really the only expensive component)

Heater: $65

Fan: $14

With this, we can run 5-8 hours on very small
batteries, we figure we have several hours to get a
generator to the site if power isn’t coming back.   We
run all POE from the Netonix, it works really well.  
Here are the other things we can do with the box:

 1. Monitor temp in the cabinet
 2. Monitor/alert on loss of AC line power through TP DIN
 3. Monitor voltage of the batteries
 4. Monitor voltage to the Netonix
 5. Monitor Current to the Netonix
 6. Monitor Current in/out of the batteries
 7. Auto start the heater below 40 degrees
 8. Auto start the fan above 80 degrees
 9. Power cycle the netonix from the TP DIN
10. Power cycle any AP, Router, Backhaul from the Netonix

We also put a Mikrotik router in this cabinet.  
Usually a Hex POE (for small sites) or a 3011 for
larger sites.

We have 13 in the field set up like this and are going
15 more right now.   While it might be a little more
than what you were thinking, it gives us a ton of
control for pretty minimal investment per site.

Best part is, no coding necessary. 

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[George Skorup]

RackInjector, dude. RackInjector.

And you can swap that 1100AHx2 for an 1100AHx4. The DC input on the back 
supports - or + 48.


On 1/29/2018 11:56 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

That looks to meet alot of our need, though the 48 volt

SAF recommended Eltek minipack system, i havent priced that

This is what most of our sites have (theres some depreciating ubnt 
sectors too)

4x EPMP access point/Paketflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-48
4x AP320/Packetflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-24
Sitemonitor/cambium wallwort
1-2 backhauls (unlic: epmp, ptp500, UBNT rocket) (lic: SAF or Mimosa)
RB1100AHX2 (AC power)
HP 1810 24g switch (AC power)

APC 750xl or 1000xl w/management card




This is probably one of our more heavily populated sites

4x ap320/packetflux/meanwell 48v
4x fsk/packetflux/meanwell 24v
4x EPMP/packetflux/ meanwell 48v
2x UBNT Nanobridge private APs/ubnt PS
2x SAF Lumina/ SAF PS (will be 1x lumina and 2x Integra soon)
3x UBNT rocket M5/UBNT PS
1x EPMP force 200/EPMP PS
1x PTP 650/Cambium PS
1x sitemonitor/cambium 29v PS
1x RB1100AHX2/AC power
1x HP 1810g 24/AC power

APC 1500XL + 2 External packs and management card


the AC fans run on the utility side because I dont have the battery budget


Cabling is a shitshow with all the AC powercords and branded power 
supplies too.


I assume the APC UPS runtime is wasted with all the power supplies.

Scalability is a factor as well, so far we havent justified 450m but 
may soon and we will roll some LTE in the near term which will add 
substantial demand



On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:39 PM, David Coudron 
> 
wrote:


Here is what we are doing, I think this is close to what Steve is
asking for:

Meanwell SDR-240-24 AC to DC power source:  $84

Meanwell DR-UPS40 Battery Float/UPS:  $37

Tycon TPDIN MonitorWeb2:  $131

24 V of battery backup $70-120 depending on the runtime looking for

Netonix 150 W or 250 DC switch: $250-350  (This is really the only
expensive component)

Heater:   $65

Fan:  $14

With this, we can run 5-8 hours on very small batteries, we figure
we have several hours to get a generator to the site if power
isn’t coming back.   We run all POE from the Netonix, it works
really well.   Here are the other things we can do with the box:

 1. Monitor temp in the cabinet
 2. Monitor/alert on loss of AC line power through TP DIN
 3. Monitor voltage of the batteries
 4. Monitor voltage to the Netonix
 5. Monitor Current to the Netonix
 6. Monitor Current in/out of the batteries
 7. Auto start the heater below 40 degrees
 8. Auto start the fan above 80 degrees
 9. Power cycle the netonix from the TP DIN
10. Power cycle any AP, Router, Backhaul from the Netonix

We also put a Mikrotik router in this cabinet.   Usually a Hex POE
(for small sites) or a 3011 for larger sites.

We have 13 in the field set up like this and are going 15 more
right now.   While it might be a little more than what you were
thinking, it gives us a ton of control for pretty minimal
investment per site.

Best part is, no coding necessary. Doing all this with the Monitor
Web2 settings and/or SNMP.    Let me know if you are interested in
pictures.   For this second batch we have started using Terminal
blocks to clean up the wiring, the cabinets look a little better,
but we went to a smaller poly cabinet that makes things a little
tight.

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Carl Peterson
*Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 5:39 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

You can still do DC-DC off it and then hook up netonix.  If I had
to do it now I'd go with the IDC switch.  When we did our design,
the idc didn't exist so we just went down to 24V off of our A  and
B sides and run a redundant powered 24V bus which all the netonix
switches run on.

I better buy up another batch of Elteks before all y'all buy them
all up. These are mostly decommissioned Sprint/Clearwire btw.


On Jan 27, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Josh Baird > wrote:

A 12 port version would be nice.  Looks like the 26 port
version is $600.

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:59 PM, Gino A. Villarini
> wrote:

Used to, now with the IDC model is not needed (isolated dc)…

*From: *Af > on behalf of Josh Baird
>
*Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com "
>
*Date: *Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 1:51 PM
 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE?

[George Skorup]

Not what I heard. Sounds like it'll be best of both worlds. The eNB will 
be 3GPP compliant, meaning you can use any vendor's UE. And then their 
UE will support transparent L2 mode like we're use to with Canopy, ePMP, 
etc. Sounds like the best way for them to get operators back from 
Telrad, Baicells, etc.


On 1/29/2018 12:22 PM, Joe Novak wrote:

Code name cnRanger, starting in B41/2.5ghz around Q4. Announced in Vegas.

It sounded like they are going to gut the protocol and use the 
strengths of the wireless layer, so more like a LTE spin, so did not 
sound like it was going to be standards compliant if that matters to you.


On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


Somebody told me today that Cambium is expected to have an LTE
product around Q4.
Fake news?

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[George Skorup]

That current though. I'm looking at doing a rack mount cabinet and telco 
rectifier at medium and large sites going forward. It just makes sense. 
What really sucks is when a small site turns into a medium site and then 
there's not enough cabinet space. So I'm gathering some ideas and costs 
to just do the same thing at every site. Everything except the really 
small sites where we might have something like an ePMP omni and a 
handful of customers. Which is yet another problem. Might as well use an 
ePMP 2k lite, which is 48vdc. And then backhaul it on a Force200 or 
450SM, which is obviously 24vdc. Ugh. Most of the time we just say screw 
it and throw in a small APC UPS, a switch and POE bricks. Perhaps that's 
somewhere something like a small Netonix switch with internal DC-DC 
converters would be useful. Until the on-board GPS goes to shit and you 
have no sync. It's never ending round and round WTF do I do for these.


On 1/29/2018 9:29 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
There's a lot to like about that setup.  The DR-UPS can do 40amp on 
24v, so your upper limit is almost 1kW.  Just drive it with a bigger 
24v supply as needed.


What has held me back from that in the past is the DR-UPS is not 
available in 48v, and the biggest power consumers I have are 48V.  I 
went to Traco to stay 48V.  OTOH your rig is so much cheaper than 
Traco that adding an RSD-300B-48 for another $100 is not a bad deal.



-- Original Message --
From: "David Coudron" >

To: "af@afmug.com" >
Sent: 1/28/2018 10:39:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Here is what we are doing, I think this is close to what Steve is 
asking for:


Meanwell SDR-240-24 AC to DC power source:  $84

Meanwell DR-UPS40 Battery Float/UPS: $37

Tycon TPDIN MonitorWeb2:  $131

24 V of battery backup $70-120 depending on the runtime looking for

Netonix 150 W or 250 DC switch: $250-350  (This is really the only 
expensive component)


Heater:   $65

Fan:  $14

With this, we can run 5-8 hours on very small batteries, we figure we 
have several hours to get a generator to the site if power isn’t 
coming back.   We run all POE from the Netonix, it works really 
well.   Here are the other things we can do with the box:


 1. Monitor temp in the cabinet
 2. Monitor/alert on loss of AC line power through TP DIN
 3. Monitor voltage of the batteries
 4. Monitor voltage to the Netonix
 5. Monitor Current to the Netonix
 6. Monitor Current in/out of the batteries
 7. Auto start the heater below 40 degrees
 8. Auto start the fan above 80 degrees
 9. Power cycle the netonix from the TP DIN
10. Power cycle any AP, Router, Backhaul from the Netonix

We also put a Mikrotik router in this cabinet.   Usually a Hex POE 
(for small sites) or a 3011 for larger sites.


We have 13 in the field set up like this and are going 15 more right 
now.   While it might be a little more than what you were thinking, 
it gives us a ton of control for pretty minimal investment per site.


Best part is, no coding necessary. Doing all this with the Monitor 
Web2 settings and/or SNMP.    Let me know if you are interested in 
pictures. For this second batch we have started using Terminal blocks 
to clean up the wiring, the cabinets look a little better, but we 
went to a smaller poly cabinet that makes things a little tight.


Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com 
] *On Behalf Of *Carl Peterson

*Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 5:39 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

You can still do DC-DC off it and then hook up netonix.  If I had to 
do it now I'd go with the IDC switch.  When we did our design, the 
idc didn't exist so we just went down to 24V off of our A  and B 
sides and run a redundant powered 24V bus which all the netonix 
switches run on.


I better buy up another batch of Elteks before all y'all buy them all 
up. These are mostly decommissioned Sprint/Clearwire btw.



On Jan 27, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Josh Baird > wrote:


A 12 port version would be nice. Looks like the 26 port version
is $600.

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:59 PM, Gino A. Villarini
> wrote:

Used to, now with the IDC model is not needed (isolated dc)…

*From: *Af > on behalf of Josh Baird
>
*Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com "
>
*Date: *Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 1:51 PM
*To: *"af@afmug.com " >
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Which Netonix are you running at - 48V?  Or are you using an

Re: [AFMUG] Watts and VA on DC vs AC

[George Skorup]

Yup. And it's not all that accurate when very hot or cold. I'll throw it 
up on my dashboard for a few minutes in the winter.


On 1/25/2018 10:57 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Gotta make sure to zero those DC clamp on units before you use them.  
Seems like every time I use one it takes me a bit of time to get it to 
measure correctly.

*From:* George Skorup
*Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 9:45 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Watts and VA on DC vs AC
Yeah. I guessed about 33 amps based on 13 volts. Could rise quite a 
bit as the battery drains, and I'd expect the inverter efficiency to 
drop as the battery voltage decreases.


I like having my handy Craftsman AC/DC clamp-on ammeter to verify my 
poor attempts at math.


On 1/25/2018 10:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Your inverter is probably 90% efficient if you are lucky.
355 watts / .9 = perhaps 433 watts input
433/12 =37 amps input at 12 volts
So, yeah,  your guess between 30 and 60 amps is pretty accurate.
You can also insert 1 foot of #10 wire in series with the 12 volt line.
Measure the voltage from one end of the wire to the other.
Millivolts = amps.
You should have about 37 milliamps volt drop across that wire.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:49 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Watts and VA on DC vs AC
I wanted to rig up a load test for some batteries.
I don't have a substantial 12V DC load, so I set up a 1000W inverter, 
a short extension cord, a Kill-a-Watt meter, and a heat gun.

With the heat gun on low, The kill-a-watt reads 110v, 606 VA, and 355W.
The question is how much load is this putting on the battery?  
Somewhere between 30 and 60amp I guess, and either way my multimeter 
can't measure more than 10A DC current, so I can't measure it directly.
My Googling on the topic has failed to enlighten me.  My instinct is 
to think that Watts is Watts, so I should probably use 355W in my 
calculation of battery capacity, but I'm not sure.

Re: [AFMUG] Watts and VA on DC vs AC

[George Skorup]

Yeah. I guessed about 33 amps based on 13 volts. Could rise quite a bit 
as the battery drains, and I'd expect the inverter efficiency to drop as 
the battery voltage decreases.


I like having my handy Craftsman AC/DC clamp-on ammeter to verify my 
poor attempts at math.


On 1/25/2018 10:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Your inverter is probably 90% efficient if you are lucky.
355 watts / .9 = perhaps 433 watts input
433/12 =37 amps input at 12 volts
So, yeah,  your guess between 30 and 60 amps is pretty accurate.
You can also insert 1 foot of #10 wire in series with the 12 volt line.
Measure the voltage from one end of the wire to the other.
Millivolts = amps.
You should have about 37 milliamps volt drop across that wire.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:49 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Watts and VA on DC vs AC
I wanted to rig up a load test for some batteries.
I don't have a substantial 12V DC load, so I set up a 1000W inverter, 
a short extension cord, a Kill-a-Watt meter, and a heat gun.

With the heat gun on low, The kill-a-watt reads 110v, 606 VA, and 355W.
The question is how much load is this putting on the battery?  
Somewhere between 30 and 60amp I guess, and either way my multimeter 
can't measure more than 10A DC current, so I can't measure it directly.
My Googling on the topic has failed to enlighten me. My instinct is to 
think that Watts is Watts, so I should probably use 355W in my 
calculation of battery capacity, but I'm not sure.

Re: [AFMUG] Watts and VA on DC vs AC

[George Skorup]

IIRC, VA = RMS current x RMS voltage. VA=Watts when you have a constant 
load like a lightbulb. Introduce things like switching power supplies 
and it's not so constant.


I would just ignore the VA since you're interested in the current across 
the battery. A watt's a watt, but you do also have inverter 
inefficiency. Maybe 90% at best? Which I'm sure gets worse as the 
battery voltage drops.


On 1/25/2018 9:49 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I wanted to rig up a load test for some batteries.
I don't have a substantial 12V DC load, so I set up a 1000W inverter, 
a short extension cord, a Kill-a-Watt meter, and a heat gun.


With the heat gun on low, The kill-a-watt reads 110v, 606 VA, and 355W.

The question is how much load is this putting on the battery? 
 Somewhere between 30 and 60amp I guess, and either way my multimeter 
can't measure more than 10A DC current, so I can't measure it directly.


My Googling on the topic has failed to enlighten me.  My instinct is 
to think that Watts is Watts, so I should probably use 355W in my 
calculation of battery capacity, but I'm not sure.

Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station

[George Skorup]

We're on a 17kW Tx/50kW ERP station. I do see some CRC/FCS errors once 
in a while, but mostly no problems. And some other lower power stations.


Under 100W at ~100MHz should be zero issues. There's something else 
going on. I'd say check grounding, make sure everyone including utility 
are bonded.


On 1/23/2018 1:55 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:

Gotcha.

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

The coil turns should be all within one inch of each other.

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station

Sorry for the dumb question.  What should be 1 inch in length?

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Well, lets say you want the coil to present 10,000 ohms of series 
inductive reactance.

xl=2 pi f l
xl/100e6 * 2* pi = l = 16 microhenrys

L = R*R*T*T/(9R + 10 L)

8 turns on a 6 inch diameter with a length of 1 inch ought to do it.


-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station

Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be?

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 
cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too 
if you have enough slack.
Shielded cable will help too.  No need to ground it.  I would focus 
on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system.

*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has 
been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg.
i know we've discussed ferrite beads  - - how should they be 
replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing

us to negotiate at 10 meg?
thanks
the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts

 
Virus-free. www.avg.com 



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---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Re: [AFMUG] cambium 900 mhz 450 sync

[George Skorup]

The SyncBox Junior replaces the SyncPipe. And no, there is no Parasitic, 
because not compatible with gigabit, and there are better options now.


You have a couple PacketFlux options for timing the 900 450i. SBJ Basic 
and a RackInjector or PowerInjector+Sync. Or the SBJ Aux port version 
which takes uGPS power. You can run 1-4 sectors on it and all APs can 
supply uGPS power to it.


On 1/23/2018 1:20 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
I glanced at packetflix, saw the new gigabit sync injector (it is 
probably not all that new anymore) , but i could not find a syncpipe basic
to go with it.� i saw a parasitic, but i know that is not the syncpipe 
i need.� is there a new syncpipe?� is it under a different category?

thanks.
(i opened a ticket but i assume the list will be faster) :)

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 3.5.1 new stable?

[George Skorup]

I believe one of the very few issues with 3.5.1 is the inability to set 
GPS coordinates in the GUI. Not sure if setting via cnMaestro works or 
not. I haven't really paid much attention to it.
The other thing I've been hearing is the 2k stops responding when STP 
BPDUs are heard. Haven't been able to confirm that. But I do have one 2k 
AP that goes down occasionally for a reason that I cannot figure out. 
I'm wondering if this is what's happening. We replaced everything and it 
still does it. So I'm thinking it's not a h/w issue. For now I just set 
up the SiteMonitor to auto cycle it.
Other than that, 3.5.1 seems to be pretty stable. Hopefully they'll roll 
out 3.5.2 with fixes for this little stuff.


Yes, there is a GPS update for the older 1k radios with the GPS-only 
receiver as well as the new 1k and 2k APs with the GPS+GLONASS receiver. 
Supposed to fix the lockups. Then I noticed that cnMaestro started 
reporting that the GPS needs to be updated on a new 2k AP. But it is 
updated. And it still complains. Whatever.


FWIW, the "puck" is just an external active antenna. The receiver itself 
has an internal antenna and you can run without the puck. I have several 
1k PTPs where I just wanted the gigabit ethernet, so the puck isn't 
attached, yet they're all tracking 7+ sats. Note that if you have a 
newer 1k or 2k AP, you need to use the square puck since that's for 
GPS+GLONASS. The old puck is GPS only.


On 1/22/2018 3:20 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
wonder if it helps the "hockey puck" lockup issue?  We've seen it a 
handful of times


- Original Message -
*From:* Steve Jones 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 2:48 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 3.5.1 new stable?

3.5.1 has one not sure if there is more than one that far back

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 2:45 PM, Brandon Yuchasz
> wrote:

Steve is there a GPS upgrade between 2.6 and 3.5?

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 2:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 3.5.1 new stable?

its been good here, 50 APs and a few hundred subscribers in
5ghz, just have to remember to upgrade the gps chipset manually

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Jerry Head
>
wrote:

We are running 3.5.1 on a few hundred units, both 2.4 and
5ghz, seems to be working just fine.

On 1/22/2018 2:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

What is everyone thinking on the newest firmware release
are you willing to consider it the new stable at this point?

�

We are still running 2.6.1.x on APs at this point and have
a mix of it and a little 3.3 on SMs. I don�t see any
issues on the forums or in the notes on the newest version
and the few links I have on it have been just fine.

�

Interested to hear everyone else�s thoughts.

�

Brandon

�

Re: [AFMUG] Use Unpowered PoE Injector on Long Ethernet Runs?

[George Skorup]

So this is a non-shielded cable. Is it direct burial? Or in conduit?

Had several customers over the years with a similar scenario. Conduit 
full of water. Penetrated the cable. Very ungood. Can't even get it to 
run at 10/half without errors. Replace it with a PTP link.


On 1/22/2018 11:15 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
Any time you separate transmitters & receivers by any distance, you 
have the "potential" to have grounds at different potentials (I did 
not really intend that pun, but it works).


So, often, it is a wise choice to ground at one end, but not the 
other. This retains most of the shielding without causing current on 
the ground leg(s).



bp


On 1/22/2018 9:11 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
Different grounds can cause a problem. Are the house and barn on 
different meters?


Christopher Gray wrote:
I have a customer with bizarre issues. I've replaced almost 
everything but odd issues keep coming back.


The customer has a 100' run of Ethernet cable from the house to the 
barn, and a switch in the barn. I'm wondering if there might be an 
issue with different power sources, possibly different grounds 
between the router and the switch. The issues are intermittent 
enough that I can't ask for them to just disconnect their barn as it 
is used for work.


If I install an unpowered gigabit PoE injector in-line with that 
100' run, will that eliminate any issues with different power or 
different grounds between different buildings since the buildings 
would be on separate sides of the magnetics, or do I need better 
separation?



 
Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



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Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[George Skorup]

Nope, no reflectors on towers. We've had tornadoes get close enough to 
some sites over the years. I'm remembering several 27RDs where the 
fiberglass reflectors were just gone. And then there's falling ice.


We've used a lot of Laird HDDA-5W's. Basically the same thing as the 
Rocketdish. Galvanized vs stainless on stainless h/w too. I prefer the 
Laird. Plus you can do -/+45 with the Laird feed horn setup. We do have 
a ton of PTP links using Rocketdishes. It was extremely easy to swap the 
Rockets with ePMPs thanks to the RF Elements adapters. And now we're 
looking to upgrade all of those yet again with PTP550's. It never ends.


On 1/22/2018 10:08 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

I concur. I can't see myself ever putting a reflector on a tower.

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Mike Hammett > wrote:


There's no way I'm using a reflector for anything.

The rejection is very good.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Rory Conaway" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Monday, January 22, 2018 8:08:50 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

If you are talking about the 2’ dishes, their gain in 5GHz is the
same as the KP reflector.  We may test that but honestly, between
the price difference which is more than $100, the weight, and the
complexity, it would have to be significantly better and I doubt
it is.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 6:58 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

They still work down there, just lose a couple dB. Their better
rejection makes up for it.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Rory Conaway" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Monday, January 22, 2018 7:57:40 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Most Jirous antennas aren’t good for under 5.4GHz though.  We
started using them after being told more than 2 years ago they
would have updated nose cones shortly. I’m still waiting.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 6:30 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Jirous makes antennas with good patterns.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"David Coudron" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:04:56 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi 

Re: [AFMUG] Exalt firmware

[George Skorup]

Yes, there are two software banks/flashes in the ExtendAir G2.

On 1/16/2018 11:56 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Programming twice usually means there are two firmware banks and 
you're bringing both up to that version. I suspect there's some big 
change where the old firmware won't work anyway, so you need to flash 
twice to avoid accidentally rolling back to a firmware that won't work 
anymore.


Speculation, of course.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Colin Stanners" <cstann...@gmail.com>
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:45:22 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Exalt firmware

Note: According to the ExtendAir G2 1.4.3 upgrade notes, if you have 
very early firmware you can upgrade your link to 1.1.0 then jump 
straight to 1.4.2 (which needs to be programmed in twice for reasons 
that I don't fully understand), then to 1.4.3. I can send you 1.1.0 
firmware if you want.


On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 3:38 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Looking for ExtendAir G2 release 1.2.2. Anybody have it?

[AFMUG] Exalt firmware

[George Skorup]

Looking for ExtendAir G2 release 1.2.2. Anybody have it?

Re: [AFMUG] CCR1032 to CRS125 Fiber

[George Skorup]

https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MikroTik_SFP_module_compatibility_table#SFP.2B_interface_compatibility_settings_with_1G_links

On 1/15/2018 2:42 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I've had CCR SFP+ ports not wanting to work with GigE SFP modules, but 
the same port works fine with 10G modules.  I know on paper SFP+ is 
supposed to be backwards compatible, but I've had mixed results in 
real life.


You might have to get an SFP+ module and let it negotiate at 1G.



-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" >

To: "af@afmug.com" >
Sent: 1/11/2018 6:56:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CCR1032 to CRS125 Fiber

I've had to set the CCR to 1Gbps FDX (not auto negotiate) in the past 
to get a link to come up. Worth a try if you haven't changed that 
setting as of yet.


On Thursday, January 11, 2018, Nate Burke > wrote:


I tried to move a Multimode 1g fiber that was running on a
RB260GS to a CCR1032 8G-2S+.  I moved the mikrotik branded SFP
from the 260 to the CCR, so I know the SFP is good.  The SFP was
recognized, and the phy link was reporting up, but I had no RX
traffic.  The remote end of the fiber is on a CRS125.  I tried to
fiddle with all the interface settings I could on the CCR, but
nothing worked.  I moved the SFP back to the 260, and the fiber
is still passing traffic normally.  Any thoughts on Settings that
were keeping traffic from moving.

Re: [AFMUG] IPv4 exhaust again

[George Skorup]

Dual-stack and CGN? You can get 8:1, 16:1 or even 32:1 out of a single 
public IPv4 address. Give 8 customers 8k ports each, or 16 customer 4k 
ports each, 32 customers 2k ports each. That's *source* ports, so 
they're not limited to 8k, 4k or 2k connections total. You have to look 
at in both directions. 10.10.10.10:1024 -> 8.8.8.8:53 and 
10.10.10.10:1024 -> 8.8.4.4:53 mappings are both valid, and it obviously 
goes a lot deeper than that.


Seems to be a whole lot easier than some crazy NAT appliance that's 
running the whole network. I haven't done anything like this, but I'm 
considering it. I think Juniper even lets you do this with a couple 
commands? Yeah, I'm too cheap for that.


Something else to keep in mind is that most consumer grade routers still 
have a fairly limited connection table. My Cambium cnPilot router I have 
at home lets you adjust the max table size (up to 8192). Most are 2k or 
4k. While even a low-end MikroTik will give you >100k.


On 1/15/2018 11:35 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Planning to buy another /21 or some such thing  again ..
So going to attempt to NAT the whole frigging company.
Seems like I am going in reverse here.
If we can make NAT work for most customers, then that will buy us time 
to build our magic V4 translator gateway box for a V6 only network.

Any suggestions on the best way to do this?

Re: [AFMUG] Power supply for multiple 450ms

[George Skorup]

100W power supply? I assume they're budgeting for absolute worst case. 
Like 500' POE only and fiber?


Maybe a Traco TSP600-148 to run all four?

Or... Forrest showed the RackInjector with "Cambium Sync" cards powered 
via -48 (I assume some kind of telco rectifier).


On 1/15/2018 11:22 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
Hey all, I am looking for a single power supply that can handle the 
load for 4 - 450m's


The specs from one power supply provided by cambium is 58v 1.7a

Is there such a thing as 58v 8 amp power supplies that can handle 4 
radios booting up at the same time?


--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] PC Out of Band management

[George Skorup]

I've got three SuperMicro 5018A-FTN4's deployed at towers as anycast 
DNS/NTP/RADIUS/etc nodes. Plenty fast and pull only about 20-25W. The 
fan is nearly silent unless you kick it up to full speed. Single SSD and 
16GB of RAM. You get IPMI and quad Intel NICs. Just note it takes ECC 
SO-DIMMs.


I've bought some stuff from these guys too: 
https://www.theserverstore.com/ Grabbed a $4k dual-node server from them 
and one of the m/b's won't boot, but it was only $325 and I was more 
interested in the chassis since I have spare boards anyway, so I didn't 
even bother with the DOA warranty. Came super clean, almost brand new 
looking, and no damage at all.


On 1/15/2018 9:57 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm working at a site with Dual WAN feeds (from 3rd parties), I think 
one of them is acting up, not packet loss, but other weird browsing 
issues, websites half loading, video buffering, but speedtests are 
fine.  I'd like to put a PC there, and test/troubleshoot the 
troublesome link remotely so I'm not sitting cramped in a closet.  By 
not having my access to the PC over the IP and default gateway of the 
PC, and multiple NICs in the PC, I can remotely switch the PC between 
the WAN feeds to prove that it is an issue with that single feed.


IP KVM's are coming up around the $300-$400 range.  Maybe I should 
just drop a Supermicro server in there.


On 1/15/2018 9:33 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

dual NICs with teamviewer is what i use to manage our office rack

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Josh Reynolds > wrote:


This sounds like a goofy use case.

Maybe a raspberry pi with a usb NIC?

What are you needing this for?

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 9:11 AM, Nate Burke 
wrote:
> I'm looking to put a PC at a site, but I want true out of Band
management
> for it, I.E. Be able to turn off the Ethernet Interfaces or
Change IP
> Addresses without dropping management connectivity. I'm used to
working with
> the Supermicro motherboards built in IPMI Functionality, which
is awesome,
> but I just need a simple PC at a site for a couple weeks, not a
whole
> server.  Is there a brand/model that works well without
breaking the bank?
> VGA video, and USB keyboard/mouse.  It's been several years
since I've last
> used one, so I'm sure they are better now than they used to
be.  They were
> very flaky then.
>
> Nate

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Post

[George Skorup]

A movie about a juggalo IT guy? Didn't see it. Don't want to.

On 1/12/2018 10:36 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
true.. and I will watch it.. but given the irreversability of the 
interweb, and how fast a mouseclick goes global, the alcohol 
availability makes a lent request very much reasonable for people who 
rely on third parties to do their job for them.


btw, while movies are a topic. IT, this is a fucking disgrace ... just 
sayin


On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:21 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:


Based on what actually happened when Lewis, Chuck, and I were a
bit younger.  It's part of our history.


Jaime Solorza

On Jan 12, 2018 7:15 PM, "Lewis Bergman" > wrote:

Come on Steve, it's just a movie.


On Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 8:05 PM Steve Jones
>
wrote:

Please, for the love of god.. lent right now

On Jan 12, 2018 7:28 PM, "Lewis Bergman"
>
wrote:

An excellent film with an important message.