Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Mary Jo Sminkey]

>ColdFusion 9 / ColdFusion Builder / Flash Builder 4, free for education at
>http://freeriatools.adobe.com

That's nice, but why isn't the information *clearly* outlined on the main Adobe 
CF9/CFB pages? Or at least, an obvious link in the informational links on the 
right? If you go to the information on licenses, etc. there's no mention at all 
about educational purchases. You pretty much have to know up-front that's its 
free and dig around to find out how to actually *get* it. Someone coming to 
those pages and not knowing this already would most likely assume it's a paid 
software product only. 






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Re: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[denstar]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Adrocknaphobia wrote:
...
> I already shared you feedback with the CB engineering team _and_ Luis. I'm
> very much on board with providing extension points into our parsers. :-)

Sweet!  Stuff like this is more along the lines I was referring to.  :)

And y'all don't mind if we support CFB extensions in CFE?  I found a
plugin that builds UI elements and whatnot from XML files, seems like
it'd work...

:Den

-- 
You could not step twice into the same rivers; for other waters are
ever flowing on to you.
Heraclitus

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Re: CFBuilder: standalone or plugin?

[Wil Genovese]

Somewhere around Beta 3 I think.

Wil



On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Scott Stewart wrote:

>
> I stand corrected :) When did they start using the Galileo version?
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Adrocknaphobia
>  wrote:
> >
> > Actually, CFBuilder ships w/ Eclipse 3.5 (when installed as stand-alone),
> > but also supports Eclipse 3.4.2.
> >
> > -Adam
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Scott Stewart <
> webmas...@sstwebworks.com>wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Won,
> >>
> >> If there are Eclipse plugins that you already use, or want to use then
> >> install the CFBuilder plugin. I've run it on the latest Eclipse builds
> >> and haven't had any problems. Conversly I think CFBuilder is based off
> >> of either the 3.2 or 3.3 builds, and most plugins would fould out on
> >> install
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Won Lee  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > First excuse me for not posting on cf-builder.  I've been waiting
> couple
> >> of
> >> > hours for HoF to email me a new password link.
> >> >
> >> > What is the major difference between the two types of install?  I did
> a
> >> > google search and the only worthwhile information I was able to find
> was
> >> Ray
> >> > Camden writing that he only used the standalone version so far.
> >> >
> >> > My major concern is getting CFBuilder to work with HgEclipse.
> >> >
> >> > I just DLed the trial version and giving it a spin before I commit
> part
> >> of
> >> > my budget for a license.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Judah McAuley]

Thanks Adam. I send Luis fan mail all the time, no worries, I've got
to get off my butt and put my Coldbox contributions up on the Code
Depot. Now if I just got less lazy and blogged, maybe I'd become a
Team Coldbox member :)

Cheers,
Judah

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Adrocknaphobia
 wrote:
>
> Judah,
>
> I already shared you feedback with the CB engineering team _and_ Luis. I'm
> very much on board with providing extension points into our parsers. :-)
>
> -Adam
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Judah McAuley  wrote:
>
>>
>> That's correct, Adam. Luis has done a great job with the CFB
>> extensions for Coldbox as well as some nifty bits for CFE.  As a
>> matter of fact, his CFB extension is the biggest reason I'm tempted to
>> use CFBuilder. But please look over my suggestion. I really want to
>> see a CFML IDE that *really* understands the code, not just the
>> syntax. When I'm in a handler in my MVC app, and I start using one of
>> my Service objects, the IDE really needs to be able to pick up the
>> methods I defined in that object.
>>
>> We are writing applications, not single pages of code. And
>> applications need to understand the other parts of the application.
>> We've got a start, but neither CFBuilder nor CFEclipse is there yet.
>>
>> Judah
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Adrocknaphobia
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > "Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
>> > as The Community (us)..."
>> >
>> > We have that now in ColdFusion Builder. :-) There are 30 extensions
>> created
>> > by the community already available on RIAForge.
>> >
>> > I assume this thread implies that the ideas are in addition to the
>> awesome
>> > ColdBox extension that already exists.
>> >
>> > http://www.coldboxframework.com/forgebox/view/ColdBox-Platform-Utilities
>> >
>> > <
>> http://www.coldboxframework.com/forgebox/view/ColdBox-Platform-Utilities>
>> > -Adam
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:20 PM, denstar  wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Judah McAuley wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm still up for trying to make this happen once I get my current side
>> >> > project out the door. I can't stand having to go back and open up all
>> >> > my Service objects when I'm in my handler trying to remember what I
>> >> > named all of my methods and what arguments they take.  This isn't one
>> >> > of those areas where CFML being dynamic and duck typed is an
>> >> > issue...well, the dynamic part comes in somewhat. But the real issue
>> >> > is just having the IDE know where to go find the files to pay
>> >> > attention to. Once it knows where the files are, it can certainly
>> >> > parse them and show a list of methods and their arguments.
>> >>
>> >> Yup, and finding files is part of why I started the cfml.project
>> >> project.  I want to be able to specify in one place where mappings
>> >> are, for instance, and let CFE (+framework explorer), MXUnit, and
>> >> cfdistro/etc. use the same info, if it's there.
>> >>
>> >> The framework explorer *could* offer auto-complete and do validation
>> >> on (for instance) ColdSpring XML files.
>> >>
>> >> There's no way around *having* to provide some extra information, for
>> >> some stuff, but we can actually suss out quite a bit automatically.
>> >>
>> >> > Lets see who gets there first, Adam, CFEclipse or CFBuilder.  Let's
>> >> > see some real IDE's for CFML that understand modern application
>> >> > development, like DI, Composition and Inheritance :)
>> >>
>> >> This is part of why I'd like to see some manner of sharing resources.
>> >>
>> >> It's going to require some thought, as CFB is based on Aptana and
>> >> Aptana has it's own way of doing a lot of stuff (much like DLTK has
>> >> it's own way-- DLTK is what I'm looking at for providing a "all in
>> >> one" CFML/XML/HTML/CSS/Javascript version, but we'll see what
>> >> happens)... what I'd really like to see is an open source
>> >> parser/CFMLModel deal that both projects could use at the core, and
>> >> expose to Aptana or DLTK (or whatever) however needed.
>> >>
>> >> Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
>> >> as The Community (us)...
>> >>
>> >> It would have to wait until the CFML language spec stuff is kinda
>> >> rolling along, probably, but it's something to think about...
>> >>
>> >> :DeN
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony.
>> >> Heraclit
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> 

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RE: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[brad]

+1000

As a ColdBox user, that would be really really nice for the IDE to be
aware of how the autowiring is going to work at run time.  I never
realized how useful it was for your IDE to "know" about the variables
and objects in your code until I did some work in Java/Eclipse and
marveled at the usefulness of simply clicking a class and being taken to
the corresponding .java file etc.

~Brad

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)
From: Adrocknaphobia 
Date: Tue, March 23, 2010 4:00 pm
To: cf-talk 


Judah,

I already shared you feedback with the CB engineering team _and_ Luis.
I'm
very much on board with providing extension points into our parsers. :-)

-Adam




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Re: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Adrocknaphobia]

Judah,

I already shared you feedback with the CB engineering team _and_ Luis. I'm
very much on board with providing extension points into our parsers. :-)

-Adam

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Judah McAuley  wrote:

>
> That's correct, Adam. Luis has done a great job with the CFB
> extensions for Coldbox as well as some nifty bits for CFE.  As a
> matter of fact, his CFB extension is the biggest reason I'm tempted to
> use CFBuilder. But please look over my suggestion. I really want to
> see a CFML IDE that *really* understands the code, not just the
> syntax. When I'm in a handler in my MVC app, and I start using one of
> my Service objects, the IDE really needs to be able to pick up the
> methods I defined in that object.
>
> We are writing applications, not single pages of code. And
> applications need to understand the other parts of the application.
> We've got a start, but neither CFBuilder nor CFEclipse is there yet.
>
> Judah
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Adrocknaphobia
>  wrote:
> >
> > "Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
> > as The Community (us)..."
> >
> > We have that now in ColdFusion Builder. :-) There are 30 extensions
> created
> > by the community already available on RIAForge.
> >
> > I assume this thread implies that the ideas are in addition to the
> awesome
> > ColdBox extension that already exists.
> >
> > http://www.coldboxframework.com/forgebox/view/ColdBox-Platform-Utilities
> >
> > <
> http://www.coldboxframework.com/forgebox/view/ColdBox-Platform-Utilities>
> > -Adam
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:20 PM, denstar  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Judah McAuley wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I'm still up for trying to make this happen once I get my current side
> >> > project out the door. I can't stand having to go back and open up all
> >> > my Service objects when I'm in my handler trying to remember what I
> >> > named all of my methods and what arguments they take.  This isn't one
> >> > of those areas where CFML being dynamic and duck typed is an
> >> > issue...well, the dynamic part comes in somewhat. But the real issue
> >> > is just having the IDE know where to go find the files to pay
> >> > attention to. Once it knows where the files are, it can certainly
> >> > parse them and show a list of methods and their arguments.
> >>
> >> Yup, and finding files is part of why I started the cfml.project
> >> project.  I want to be able to specify in one place where mappings
> >> are, for instance, and let CFE (+framework explorer), MXUnit, and
> >> cfdistro/etc. use the same info, if it's there.
> >>
> >> The framework explorer *could* offer auto-complete and do validation
> >> on (for instance) ColdSpring XML files.
> >>
> >> There's no way around *having* to provide some extra information, for
> >> some stuff, but we can actually suss out quite a bit automatically.
> >>
> >> > Lets see who gets there first, Adam, CFEclipse or CFBuilder.  Let's
> >> > see some real IDE's for CFML that understand modern application
> >> > development, like DI, Composition and Inheritance :)
> >>
> >> This is part of why I'd like to see some manner of sharing resources.
> >>
> >> It's going to require some thought, as CFB is based on Aptana and
> >> Aptana has it's own way of doing a lot of stuff (much like DLTK has
> >> it's own way-- DLTK is what I'm looking at for providing a "all in
> >> one" CFML/XML/HTML/CSS/Javascript version, but we'll see what
> >> happens)... what I'd really like to see is an open source
> >> parser/CFMLModel deal that both projects could use at the core, and
> >> expose to Aptana or DLTK (or whatever) however needed.
> >>
> >> Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
> >> as The Community (us)...
> >>
> >> It would have to wait until the CFML language spec stuff is kinda
> >> rolling along, probably, but it's something to think about...
> >>
> >> :DeN
> >>
> >> --
> >> Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony.
> >> Heraclit
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: CFBuilder: standalone or plugin?

[Scott Stewart]

I stand corrected :) When did they start using the Galileo version?

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Adrocknaphobia
 wrote:
>
> Actually, CFBuilder ships w/ Eclipse 3.5 (when installed as stand-alone),
> but also supports Eclipse 3.4.2.
>
> -Adam
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Scott Stewart 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Won,
>>
>> If there are Eclipse plugins that you already use, or want to use then
>> install the CFBuilder plugin. I've run it on the latest Eclipse builds
>> and haven't had any problems. Conversly I think CFBuilder is based off
>> of either the 3.2 or 3.3 builds, and most plugins would fould out on
>> install
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Won Lee  wrote:
>> >
>> > First excuse me for not posting on cf-builder.  I've been waiting couple
>> of
>> > hours for HoF to email me a new password link.
>> >
>> > What is the major difference between the two types of install?  I did a
>> > google search and the only worthwhile information I was able to find was
>> Ray
>> > Camden writing that he only used the standalone version so far.
>> >
>> > My major concern is getting CFBuilder to work with HgEclipse.
>> >
>> > I just DLed the trial version and giving it a spin before I commit part
>> of
>> > my budget for a license.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Judah McAuley]

That's correct, Adam. Luis has done a great job with the CFB
extensions for Coldbox as well as some nifty bits for CFE.  As a
matter of fact, his CFB extension is the biggest reason I'm tempted to
use CFBuilder. But please look over my suggestion. I really want to
see a CFML IDE that *really* understands the code, not just the
syntax. When I'm in a handler in my MVC app, and I start using one of
my Service objects, the IDE really needs to be able to pick up the
methods I defined in that object.

We are writing applications, not single pages of code. And
applications need to understand the other parts of the application.
We've got a start, but neither CFBuilder nor CFEclipse is there yet.

Judah

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Adrocknaphobia
 wrote:
>
> "Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
> as The Community (us)..."
>
> We have that now in ColdFusion Builder. :-) There are 30 extensions created
> by the community already available on RIAForge.
>
> I assume this thread implies that the ideas are in addition to the awesome
> ColdBox extension that already exists.
>
> http://www.coldboxframework.com/forgebox/view/ColdBox-Platform-Utilities
>
> 
> -Adam
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:20 PM, denstar  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Judah McAuley wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm still up for trying to make this happen once I get my current side
>> > project out the door. I can't stand having to go back and open up all
>> > my Service objects when I'm in my handler trying to remember what I
>> > named all of my methods and what arguments they take.  This isn't one
>> > of those areas where CFML being dynamic and duck typed is an
>> > issue...well, the dynamic part comes in somewhat. But the real issue
>> > is just having the IDE know where to go find the files to pay
>> > attention to. Once it knows where the files are, it can certainly
>> > parse them and show a list of methods and their arguments.
>>
>> Yup, and finding files is part of why I started the cfml.project
>> project.  I want to be able to specify in one place where mappings
>> are, for instance, and let CFE (+framework explorer), MXUnit, and
>> cfdistro/etc. use the same info, if it's there.
>>
>> The framework explorer *could* offer auto-complete and do validation
>> on (for instance) ColdSpring XML files.
>>
>> There's no way around *having* to provide some extra information, for
>> some stuff, but we can actually suss out quite a bit automatically.
>>
>> > Lets see who gets there first, Adam, CFEclipse or CFBuilder.  Let's
>> > see some real IDE's for CFML that understand modern application
>> > development, like DI, Composition and Inheritance :)
>>
>> This is part of why I'd like to see some manner of sharing resources.
>>
>> It's going to require some thought, as CFB is based on Aptana and
>> Aptana has it's own way of doing a lot of stuff (much like DLTK has
>> it's own way-- DLTK is what I'm looking at for providing a "all in
>> one" CFML/XML/HTML/CSS/Javascript version, but we'll see what
>> happens)... what I'd really like to see is an open source
>> parser/CFMLModel deal that both projects could use at the core, and
>> expose to Aptana or DLTK (or whatever) however needed.
>>
>> Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
>> as The Community (us)...
>>
>> It would have to wait until the CFML language spec stuff is kinda
>> rolling along, probably, but it's something to think about...
>>
>> :DeN
>>
>> --
>> Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony.
>> Heraclit
>>
>>
>
> 

~|
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Re: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[denstar]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Casey Dougall wrote:
...
> On a side-note, you could do the same deal with Dream Weaver for $199. At
> least I would have Ctr-Shift-U for uploading files, I still can't find out
> how to make a keyboard shortcut for it in Builder.

Check the Aptana prefs, as I just saw a conflict for the command in
another post.  :)

:den

-- 
You cannot step into the same river twice.
Heraclitus

~|
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Re: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Adrocknaphobia]

"Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
as The Community (us)..."

We have that now in ColdFusion Builder. :-) There are 30 extensions created
by the community already available on RIAForge.

I assume this thread implies that the ideas are in addition to the awesome
ColdBox extension that already exists.

http://www.coldboxframework.com/forgebox/view/ColdBox-Platform-Utilities


-Adam

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:20 PM, denstar  wrote:

>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Judah McAuley wrote:
> >
> > I'm still up for trying to make this happen once I get my current side
> > project out the door. I can't stand having to go back and open up all
> > my Service objects when I'm in my handler trying to remember what I
> > named all of my methods and what arguments they take.  This isn't one
> > of those areas where CFML being dynamic and duck typed is an
> > issue...well, the dynamic part comes in somewhat. But the real issue
> > is just having the IDE know where to go find the files to pay
> > attention to. Once it knows where the files are, it can certainly
> > parse them and show a list of methods and their arguments.
>
> Yup, and finding files is part of why I started the cfml.project
> project.  I want to be able to specify in one place where mappings
> are, for instance, and let CFE (+framework explorer), MXUnit, and
> cfdistro/etc. use the same info, if it's there.
>
> The framework explorer *could* offer auto-complete and do validation
> on (for instance) ColdSpring XML files.
>
> There's no way around *having* to provide some extra information, for
> some stuff, but we can actually suss out quite a bit automatically.
>
> > Lets see who gets there first, Adam, CFEclipse or CFBuilder.  Let's
> > see some real IDE's for CFML that understand modern application
> > development, like DI, Composition and Inheritance :)
>
> This is part of why I'd like to see some manner of sharing resources.
>
> It's going to require some thought, as CFB is based on Aptana and
> Aptana has it's own way of doing a lot of stuff (much like DLTK has
> it's own way-- DLTK is what I'm looking at for providing a "all in
> one" CFML/XML/HTML/CSS/Javascript version, but we'll see what
> happens)... what I'd really like to see is an open source
> parser/CFMLModel deal that both projects could use at the core, and
> expose to Aptana or DLTK (or whatever) however needed.
>
> Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
> as The Community (us)...
>
> It would have to wait until the CFML language spec stuff is kinda
> rolling along, probably, but it's something to think about...
>
> :DeN
>
> --
> Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony.
> Heraclit
>
> 

~|
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Re: CFBuilder: standalone or plugin?

[Adrocknaphobia]

Actually, CFBuilder ships w/ Eclipse 3.5 (when installed as stand-alone),
but also supports Eclipse 3.4.2.

-Adam

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Scott Stewart wrote:

>
> Won,
>
> If there are Eclipse plugins that you already use, or want to use then
> install the CFBuilder plugin. I've run it on the latest Eclipse builds
> and haven't had any problems. Conversly I think CFBuilder is based off
> of either the 3.2 or 3.3 builds, and most plugins would fould out on
> install
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Won Lee  wrote:
> >
> > First excuse me for not posting on cf-builder.  I've been waiting couple
> of
> > hours for HoF to email me a new password link.
> >
> > What is the major difference between the two types of install?  I did a
> > google search and the only worthwhile information I was able to find was
> Ray
> > Camden writing that he only used the standalone version so far.
> >
> > My major concern is getting CFBuilder to work with HgEclipse.
> >
> > I just DLed the trial version and giving it a spin before I commit part
> of
> > my budget for a license.
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Casey Dougall]

Casey Dougall
Über Website Solutions
(518) 633-1621
Saratoga Springs, NY
http://uberwebsitesolutions.com/


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Raymond Camden  wrote:

>
> The price is 199. See the comment from Terry on this blog post:
>
>
> http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-builder-and-flash-builder-free-for-education
>
>
>

Well at least they leave you with a way to cheat their system... I could
just have my Father purchase it for me he is staff @ k-12 public school.
That fits in the description, and it's not like he's going to be missing out
on using it lol

Eligibility for Education Product
Adobe Education products are for purchase by primary or secondary
schoolchildren, full- or part-time students and full- or part time faculty
and staff employed by an accredited Educational establishment.

Restrictions on use of Education Product
You may purchase only one license of any Adobe Education product per
academic year.

Submission of Academic ID
All purchasers on Adobe's education store will be required to submit proof
of academic eligibility prior to shipment of order.


I'm still not sold on this thing yet... But I'm going to give it a solid run
here over next 58 days remaining!

On a side-note, you could do the same deal with Dream Weaver for $199. At
least I would have Ctr-Shift-U for uploading files, I still can't find out
how to make a keyboard shortcut for it in Builder.


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Re: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Judah McAuley]

Interesting that Flex Builder 3 Standard is free for Academic
licensing on that page but it seems the CF Builder won't be. Still, I
think it is great that there is academic pricing on the products. It
sure helped me out back in college.

Thanks,
Judah

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Raymond Camden  wrote:
>
> The price is 199. See the comment from Terry on this blog post:
>
> http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-builder-and-flash-builder-free-for-education
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Raymond Camden  wrote:
>> I have seen a price for the academic version, but I don't want to
>> quote it here. Let me bring in that person to see if he can confirm
>> it.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Judah McAuley  wrote:
>>>
>>> CF Builder isn't on that list. An oversight? Or does CF Builder not
>>> have academic pricing available? I'm guessing it just hasn't made it
>>> up there yet as the Flex Builder version they list is still version 3.
>>>
>>> Judah
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Raymond Camden  wrote:

 But there are good academic prices though:

 http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html


 On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:44 PM,   wrote:
>
> To be clear, "educational use" in my understanding means you can teach a
> CFML class using the server and IDE in the classroom and for the
> students.  It does not mean that any higher education institution can
> use Adobe ColdFusion to power their public school site for free.
>
> As a note, it took some time, but Adobe _does_ provide curriculum for
> teaching ColdFusion 8 in the classroom.
> http://www.adobe.com/education/instruction/teach/cfcurriculum.html
>
> ~Brad
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)
> From: Ben Forta 
> Date: Tue, March 23, 2010 2:12 pm
> To: cf-talk 
>
>
> Actually, ColdFusion has been free for educational use for a long time
> now.
> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/coldfusion/
>
> And ColdFusion Builder is now also free for educational use:
> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/cfbuilder/
>
> --- Ben
>
>
>
>


>>>
>>>
>
> 

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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Adrocknaphobia]

ColdFusion 9 / ColdFusion Builder / Flash Builder 4, free for education at
http://freeriatools.adobe.com

-Adam

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey wrote:

>
> > Is the ColdFusion Server actually going to be free to
> > education systems? I had not heard that.
>
> Yes, CF 9 is free for educational use, but good luck finding information on
> their website about it, it's pretty well hidden! I think you have to go into
> the product FAQs to even find mention of it, other than a phone number for
> "educational licenses". It's a full fledged license, not the normal
> developer license that has IP restrictions, but of course is restricted
> solely to educational and not production use. The typical requirements for
> validating such as a student or faculty ID are required to obtain the
> license key. I do hope they are actually marketing it to colleges and such
> as it definitely is not well known information at all.
>
> So yeah, if you have any association with schools or colleges, be sure to
> let them know that CF is now free for them to use in labs and such.
>
>
> 

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Re: CFBuilder: standalone or plugin?

[Won Lee]

Thanks

W

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Scott Stewart wrote:

>
> Won,
>
> If there are Eclipse plugins that you already use, or want to use then
> install the CFBuilder plugin. I've run it on the latest Eclipse builds
> and haven't had any problems. Conversly I think CFBuilder is based off
> of either the 3.2 or 3.3 builds, and most plugins would fould out on
> install
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Won Lee  wrote:
> >
> > First excuse me for not posting on cf-builder.  I've been waiting couple
> of
> > hours for HoF to email me a new password link.
> >
> > What is the major difference between the two types of install?  I did a
> > google search and the only worthwhile information I was able to find was
> Ray
> > Camden writing that he only used the standalone version so far.
> >
> > My major concern is getting CFBuilder to work with HgEclipse.
> >
> > I just DLed the trial version and giving it a spin before I commit part
> of
> > my budget for a license.
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: CFBuilder: standalone or plugin?

[Scott Stewart]

Won,

If there are Eclipse plugins that you already use, or want to use then
install the CFBuilder plugin. I've run it on the latest Eclipse builds
and haven't had any problems. Conversly I think CFBuilder is based off
of either the 3.2 or 3.3 builds, and most plugins would fould out on
install

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Won Lee  wrote:
>
> First excuse me for not posting on cf-builder.  I've been waiting couple of
> hours for HoF to email me a new password link.
>
> What is the major difference between the two types of install?  I did a
> google search and the only worthwhile information I was able to find was Ray
> Camden writing that he only used the standalone version so far.
>
> My major concern is getting CFBuilder to work with HgEclipse.
>
> I just DLed the trial version and giving it a spin before I commit part of
> my budget for a license.
>
>
> 

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Re: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Raymond Camden]

The price is 199. See the comment from Terry on this blog post:

http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-builder-and-flash-builder-free-for-education


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Raymond Camden  wrote:
> I have seen a price for the academic version, but I don't want to
> quote it here. Let me bring in that person to see if he can confirm
> it.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Judah McAuley  wrote:
>>
>> CF Builder isn't on that list. An oversight? Or does CF Builder not
>> have academic pricing available? I'm guessing it just hasn't made it
>> up there yet as the Flex Builder version they list is still version 3.
>>
>> Judah
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Raymond Camden  wrote:
>>>
>>> But there are good academic prices though:
>>>
>>> http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:44 PM,   wrote:

 To be clear, "educational use" in my understanding means you can teach a
 CFML class using the server and IDE in the classroom and for the
 students.  It does not mean that any higher education institution can
 use Adobe ColdFusion to power their public school site for free.

 As a note, it took some time, but Adobe _does_ provide curriculum for
 teaching ColdFusion 8 in the classroom.
 http://www.adobe.com/education/instruction/teach/cfcurriculum.html

 ~Brad


  Original Message 
 Subject: RE: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)
 From: Ben Forta 
 Date: Tue, March 23, 2010 2:12 pm
 To: cf-talk 


 Actually, ColdFusion has been free for educational use for a long time
 now.
 https://freeriatools.adobe.com/coldfusion/

 And ColdFusion Builder is now also free for educational use:
 https://freeriatools.adobe.com/cfbuilder/

 --- Ben




>>>
>>>
>>
>> 

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Re: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Raymond Camden]

I have seen a price for the academic version, but I don't want to
quote it here. Let me bring in that person to see if he can confirm
it.


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Judah McAuley  wrote:
>
> CF Builder isn't on that list. An oversight? Or does CF Builder not
> have academic pricing available? I'm guessing it just hasn't made it
> up there yet as the Flex Builder version they list is still version 3.
>
> Judah
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Raymond Camden  wrote:
>>
>> But there are good academic prices though:
>>
>> http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:44 PM,   wrote:
>>>
>>> To be clear, "educational use" in my understanding means you can teach a
>>> CFML class using the server and IDE in the classroom and for the
>>> students.  It does not mean that any higher education institution can
>>> use Adobe ColdFusion to power their public school site for free.
>>>
>>> As a note, it took some time, but Adobe _does_ provide curriculum for
>>> teaching ColdFusion 8 in the classroom.
>>> http://www.adobe.com/education/instruction/teach/cfcurriculum.html
>>>
>>> ~Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>  Original Message 
>>> Subject: RE: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)
>>> From: Ben Forta 
>>> Date: Tue, March 23, 2010 2:12 pm
>>> To: cf-talk 
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, ColdFusion has been free for educational use for a long time
>>> now.
>>> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/coldfusion/
>>>
>>> And ColdFusion Builder is now also free for educational use:
>>> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/cfbuilder/
>>>
>>> --- Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 

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CFBuilder: standalone or plugin?

[Won Lee]

First excuse me for not posting on cf-builder.  I've been waiting couple of
hours for HoF to email me a new password link.

What is the major difference between the two types of install?  I did a
google search and the only worthwhile information I was able to find was Ray
Camden writing that he only used the standalone version so far.

My major concern is getting CFBuilder to work with HgEclipse.

I just DLed the trial version and giving it a spin before I commit part of
my budget for a license.


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Re: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Judah McAuley]

CF Builder isn't on that list. An oversight? Or does CF Builder not
have academic pricing available? I'm guessing it just hasn't made it
up there yet as the Flex Builder version they list is still version 3.

Judah

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Raymond Camden  wrote:
>
> But there are good academic prices though:
>
> http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:44 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> To be clear, "educational use" in my understanding means you can teach a
>> CFML class using the server and IDE in the classroom and for the
>> students.  It does not mean that any higher education institution can
>> use Adobe ColdFusion to power their public school site for free.
>>
>> As a note, it took some time, but Adobe _does_ provide curriculum for
>> teaching ColdFusion 8 in the classroom.
>> http://www.adobe.com/education/instruction/teach/cfcurriculum.html
>>
>> ~Brad
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> Subject: RE: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)
>> From: Ben Forta 
>> Date: Tue, March 23, 2010 2:12 pm
>> To: cf-talk 
>>
>>
>> Actually, ColdFusion has been free for educational use for a long time
>> now.
>> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/coldfusion/
>>
>> And ColdFusion Builder is now also free for educational use:
>> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/cfbuilder/
>>
>> --- Ben
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> 

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Re: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Raymond Camden]

But there are good academic prices though:

http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:44 PM,   wrote:
>
> To be clear, "educational use" in my understanding means you can teach a
> CFML class using the server and IDE in the classroom and for the
> students.  It does not mean that any higher education institution can
> use Adobe ColdFusion to power their public school site for free.
>
> As a note, it took some time, but Adobe _does_ provide curriculum for
> teaching ColdFusion 8 in the classroom.
> http://www.adobe.com/education/instruction/teach/cfcurriculum.html
>
> ~Brad
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)
> From: Ben Forta 
> Date: Tue, March 23, 2010 2:12 pm
> To: cf-talk 
>
>
> Actually, ColdFusion has been free for educational use for a long time
> now.
> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/coldfusion/
>
> And ColdFusion Builder is now also free for educational use:
> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/cfbuilder/
>
> --- Ben
>
>
>
> 

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RE: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[brad]

To be clear, "educational use" in my understanding means you can teach a
CFML class using the server and IDE in the classroom and for the
students.  It does not mean that any higher education institution can
use Adobe ColdFusion to power their public school site for free.

As a note, it took some time, but Adobe _does_ provide curriculum for
teaching ColdFusion 8 in the classroom.
http://www.adobe.com/education/instruction/teach/cfcurriculum.html

~Brad


 Original Message 
Subject: RE: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)
From: Ben Forta 
Date: Tue, March 23, 2010 2:12 pm
To: cf-talk 


Actually, ColdFusion has been free for educational use for a long time
now. 
https://freeriatools.adobe.com/coldfusion/

And ColdFusion Builder is now also free for educational use:
https://freeriatools.adobe.com/cfbuilder/

--- Ben



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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Rick Faircloth]

> Lets be fair Rick,

Ok...I'll try to play nice... :o)

I don't think I'd have much objection if DW had been $500
and CFB $300...or DW $300 and CFB $150, etc...


-Original Message-
From: Wil Genovese [mailto:jugg...@visi.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:11 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


"But I, like others, was quite shocked when the price tag for a plug-in
was revealed as $300, same as Dreamweaver."

Lets be fair Rick, ColdFusion Builder can and will be installed as a stand
alone product in a very large number of cases. Mainly by those that never
use an Eclipse based product at this point. ColdFusion Builder is MORE than
just a plug-in and it does Integrate to your entire development environment
(in some cases better than others).  Those of us that code CFML all day
everyday need a full featured product that works and is fast.  ColdFusion
Builder has that potential.

Next, $299 for and IDE that make you productive IS worth it. I am probably
the only person not complaining about the price in this thread even though I
was really hoping Adobe would price it in the $99 to $149 price range.

Wil


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Rick Faircloth
wrote:

>
> I don't think there's really *any* IDE that I think is worth $300
> currently,
> since there are really good free and low-cost options available.
>
> I'm not a coder who would benefit from all the functionality that
> CFBuilder (or CFEclipse, for that matter) offers, since I don't need
> the "high-end" functionality that some coders on this list would
> benefit from.
>
> But I, like others, was quite shocked when the price tag for a plug-in
> was revealed as $300, same as Dreamweaver.
>
> Perhaps it really should be $300 if it took 40% of your "resources"
> (whatever that is...hours of work?...development budget?) to get the
> product out.  And how much income does "1/30th that of ColdFusion Server"
> represent?  And I wonder how long it took Mark Drew to write CFEclipse
> as a "part-time" project apart from his day job?  One part-time coder
> versus 40% of Adobe's "resources".  Adobe took what...a year and a half
> to get CFBuilder created as a plug-in, with Eclipse already existing as
> a foundation and CFEclipse as a reference model?  (Maybe the coders took
> longer than they should)
>
> It would definitely put things into proper perspective to know what
> Adobe's investment in monetary terms has been as compared to projected
> revenue.  But Adobe doesn't have to justify anything to me, as Dave Watts
> has pointed out.
>
> They do, however, have to enable me to justify spending the money on
> a product that's offered.
>
> Just one thing that would have probably caused me to purchase
> CFB...inclusion
> of state-sustaining, manual code folding.  But that's just something I
> personally
> have desired...doesn't seem to be a desired feature for many others.  That
> functionality, alone, is worth $300 to me to increase my productivity in
> navigating increasingly complex and lengthy pages.  I would pay $300 to
get
> that functionality added to CFEclipse...and I probably will at some point.
> I'd code it myself if I had a clue of how to do it.
>
> Thanks for listening...
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:06 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!
>
>
> Rick,
>
> I'm still curious to know what a $299 IDE would constitute in your
opinion.
> This entire thread has been about price and price alone, with a single
> mention of feature or worth.
>
> For the record (and I hope I don't get in trouble to for this in print),
> the
> projected revenue of ColdFusion Builder is 1/30th that of ColdFusion
> Server,
> yet we devoted nearly 40% of our resources to build it... you tell me if
> that math sounds like "making as high a return as possible with every
> product".
>
> You've got the wrong opinion about Adobe, the ColdFusion team and myself.
>
> It's easy to paint Adobe as some big evil corporate entity but I speak for
> myself and the CF team when I say our number one goal is to empower our
> customers to create.
>
> -Adam
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Rick Faircloth
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Realize, that "I" haven't stated that the shareholders are
> greedy...that's
> > simply the reason (in different terms) that others have offered as an
> > explanation for the high price of CFB.
> >
> > If I knew for a fact that they were making a reasonable profit at $299,
> > I'd have no complaint...you've got to recoup investment and *some*
> profit.
> >
> > But others in this discussion have suggested that it's the shareholders
> who
> > insist on making as high a return as possible with every product.  I
> don't
> > know that for a fact, so I wouldn't so it was so.
> >
> > And as to the reasoning that Adobe is simply trying to "sweeten the
deal"
> > by providing a copy of CFB to the Flash Builder community for 

Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Mary Jo Sminkey]

> Is the ColdFusion Server actually going to be free to 
> education systems? I had not heard that.

Yes, CF 9 is free for educational use, but good luck finding information on 
their website about it, it's pretty well hidden! I think you have to go into 
the product FAQs to even find mention of it, other than a phone number for 
"educational licenses". It's a full fledged license, not the normal developer 
license that has IP restrictions, but of course is restricted solely to 
educational and not production use. The typical requirements for validating 
such as a student or faculty ID are required to obtain the license key. I do 
hope they are actually marketing it to colleges and such as it definitely is 
not well known information at all.

So yeah, if you have any association with schools or colleges, be sure to let 
them know that CF is now free for them to use in labs and such. 


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Re: FedEx Services to Print Label

[Patrick Santora]

You may want to look into a separate piece of software to handle label
printing. In the past I used Loftware http://www.loftware.com with great
success.

In the past I successfully talked to the FedEx server to generate tracking
number, then create an XML file in which Loftware would pick up and send to
Zebra printers (5 of them). It was very rock solid.

If you need something different (simpler) you may want to look into using CF
to create PDF's that can be sent to a similar printer.

-Pat

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Shane Trahan  wrote:

>
> Has anyone been able to print labels using the FedEx web service API's
> using CF? I have tried in the past and it is very cumbersome to say the
> least but I didn't know if anyone has got this working.  I see many
> references to getting rates and tracking but nothing pointing to actually
> generating a label.
>
> Thank you for any tips that can be forwarded on.
> Shane
>
> 

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Re: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Jordan Michaels]

Perfect! Thanks Ben. =D

Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
Railo Community Distributions


Ben Forta wrote:
> Actually, ColdFusion has been free for educational use for a long time now. 
> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/coldfusion/
> 
> And ColdFusion Builder is now also free for educational use:
> https://freeriatools.adobe.com/cfbuilder/
> 
> --- Ben
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jordan Michaels [mailto:jor...@viviotech.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:09 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)
> 
> 
> I was at a CFUnited a couple years ago and Adobe was talking about a new 
> plan they had started that offered Adobe products for free to 
> educational institutions. I haven't heard much beyond that but I doubt 
> it would take too much more then a phone call to them if an Educational 
> Institution would be interested in teaching about Adobe products.
> 
> I've been teaching a class in CFML at my local CC for many years (5?) 
> now. I've been meaning to post the curriculum online for quite some 
> time, but haven't done it yet.
> 
> I start teaching again in just over a week. So maybe now is a good time. =)
> 
> Warm regards,
> Jordan Michaels
> Vivio Technologies
> http://www.viviotech.net/
> Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
> Railo Community Distributions
> 
> 
> Roger Austin wrote:
>>  Mary Jo Sminkey  wrote: 
>>> Having said that, I really am thrilled to hear that they are giving it
> for free for educational use. That certainly is a big step in the right
> direction and that along with educational use of the server really shows
> that they are starting to see that bringing in more developers is really
> critical for the future of ColdFusion. 
>>  Most of the schools I know about are teaching Java. Sounds to me 
>> like an uphill battle, but it is in Adobe's interest and long overdue.
>> I would like to hear more about how Adobe plans to market to education 
>> institutions. Is the ColdFusion Server actually going to be free to 
>> education systems? I had not heard that.
>>
>> --
>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-austin/8/a4/60
>> http://twitter.com/RogerTheGeek
>> http://www.misshunt.com/ Home of the Clean/Dirty Magnet
>> http://www.ncdevcon.com/ TACFUG 2010 Conference in North Carolina
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 

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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Rick Faircloth]

Thanks for the tip, Azadi.

I actually tested DW, but it was lacking in a couple of other ways.
Namely, when code was collapsed, if memory serves correctly, I collapsed
into a short "bar"...I think it was much like HomeSite in that regard.

The biggest problem with the "bar" is that I couldn't find a way to
extend the bar beyond about 20 spaces or so.  That meant that I couldn't
read the comment lines that I use a section headings.  So that didn't
work out.

I asked around about extending the length of the bar, but got no replies.
In Homesite, I was able to designate the length of the bar, which worked
fine.

I like to use comment lines like a table of contents and collapse code with
a comment line visible for the section.  Makes moving around the code much
easier.
And I like that better than breaking out all the code to keep the pages
manageable.

By the time I break out everything, I would end up with a main .cfm page,
component pages
to reference, jQuery code to work with, CSS stylesheets and sometimes
includes.

It was way too much trouble trying to jump through all those pages working
on an app.

The solution for me was to create a "table of contents", so to speak.

I finally figured out how to make bookmarks work for me in CFEclipse like I
want.

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Azadi Saryev [mailto:azadi.sar...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:05 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


On 24/03/2010 00:35, Rick Faircloth wrote:
> Just one thing that would have probably caused me to purchase
> CFB...inclusion
> of state-sustaining, manual code folding.  But that's just something I
> personally
> have desired...doesn't seem to be a desired feature for many others.  That
> functionality, alone, is worth $300 to me to increase my productivity in
> navigating increasingly complex and lengthy pages.

Rick,

fyi, dreamweaver (at least cs4) does have that functionality. you can
collapse any code block (not just code lines - even parts of lines) and
next time you open that file it will still be collapsed.

Azadi



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RE: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Ben Forta]

Actually, ColdFusion has been free for educational use for a long time now. 
https://freeriatools.adobe.com/coldfusion/

And ColdFusion Builder is now also free for educational use:
https://freeriatools.adobe.com/cfbuilder/

--- Ben


-Original Message-
From: Jordan Michaels [mailto:jor...@viviotech.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:09 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)


I was at a CFUnited a couple years ago and Adobe was talking about a new 
plan they had started that offered Adobe products for free to 
educational institutions. I haven't heard much beyond that but I doubt 
it would take too much more then a phone call to them if an Educational 
Institution would be interested in teaching about Adobe products.

I've been teaching a class in CFML at my local CC for many years (5?) 
now. I've been meaning to post the curriculum online for quite some 
time, but haven't done it yet.

I start teaching again in just over a week. So maybe now is a good time. =)

Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
Railo Community Distributions


Roger Austin wrote:
>  Mary Jo Sminkey  wrote: 
>> Having said that, I really am thrilled to hear that they are giving it
for free for educational use. That certainly is a big step in the right
direction and that along with educational use of the server really shows
that they are starting to see that bringing in more developers is really
critical for the future of ColdFusion. 
> 
>  Most of the schools I know about are teaching Java. Sounds to me 
> like an uphill battle, but it is in Adobe's interest and long overdue.
> I would like to hear more about how Adobe plans to market to education 
> institutions. Is the ColdFusion Server actually going to be free to 
> education systems? I had not heard that.
> 
> --
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-austin/8/a4/60
> http://twitter.com/RogerTheGeek
> http://www.misshunt.com/ Home of the Clean/Dirty Magnet
> http://www.ncdevcon.com/ TACFUG 2010 Conference in North Carolina
> 
> 
> 



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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Raymond Camden]

Both CF and CFB are free for education.

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Roger Austin  wrote:
>
>  Mary Jo Sminkey  wrote:
>> Having said that, I really am thrilled to hear that they are giving it for 
>> free for educational use. That certainly is a big step in the right 
>> direction and that along with educational use of the server really shows 
>> that they are starting to see that bringing in more developers is really 
>> critical for the future of ColdFusion.
>
>  Most of the schools I know about are teaching Java. Sounds to me
> like an uphill battle, but it is in Adobe's interest and long overdue.
> I would like to hear more about how Adobe plans to market to education
> institutions. Is the ColdFusion Server actually going to be free to
> education systems? I had not heard that

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CF Education (was: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Jordan Michaels]

I was at a CFUnited a couple years ago and Adobe was talking about a new 
plan they had started that offered Adobe products for free to 
educational institutions. I haven't heard much beyond that but I doubt 
it would take too much more then a phone call to them if an Educational 
Institution would be interested in teaching about Adobe products.

I've been teaching a class in CFML at my local CC for many years (5?) 
now. I've been meaning to post the curriculum online for quite some 
time, but haven't done it yet.

I start teaching again in just over a week. So maybe now is a good time. =)

Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
Railo Community Distributions


Roger Austin wrote:
>  Mary Jo Sminkey  wrote: 
>> Having said that, I really am thrilled to hear that they are giving it for 
>> free for educational use. That certainly is a big step in the right 
>> direction and that along with educational use of the server really shows 
>> that they are starting to see that bringing in more developers is really 
>> critical for the future of ColdFusion. 
> 
>  Most of the schools I know about are teaching Java. Sounds to me 
> like an uphill battle, but it is in Adobe's interest and long overdue.
> I would like to hear more about how Adobe plans to market to education 
> institutions. Is the ColdFusion Server actually going to be free to 
> education systems? I had not heard that.
> 
> --
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-austin/8/a4/60
> http://twitter.com/RogerTheGeek
> http://www.misshunt.com/ Home of the Clean/Dirty Magnet
> http://www.ncdevcon.com/ TACFUG 2010 Conference in North Carolina
> 
> 
> 

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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Rick Faircloth]

Yes, I think $100-$150 is a much more reasonable price...


-Original Message-
From: denstar [mailto:valliants...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:10 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Rick Faircloth wrote:
...
> represent?  And I wonder how long it took Mark Drew to write CFEclipse
> as a "part-time" project apart from his day job?  One part-time coder
> versus 40% of Adobe's "resources".  Adobe took what...a year and a half
> to get CFBuilder created as a plug-in, with Eclipse already existing as
> a foundation and CFEclipse as a reference model?  (Maybe the coders took
> longer than they should)

I think Rob Rohan wrote the first version of CFE (I could totally be
wrong, apologies if so), and there have been several contributors
since then.

FWIW, ohloh thinks it cost around $5,480,570 to develop CFE and around
100 person years.

And that's with at least a few (initial!) years of history missing.

I don't think those numbers really mean much, but it's interesting, anyways.

Since Adobe went with Aptana, they had less to write, but it's still a
monumental task.

Also FWIW, I don't know that we've seen /what/ Adobe wants for CFB,
really.  I'm guessing that the bundle deal is part of them trying to
find a price-point, perhaps.

Seems like people would be willing to pay about $100-$150 for a
stand-alone of the current incarnation...

:DeN

-- 
No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river
and he's not the same man.
Heracl



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FedEx Services to Print Label

[Shane Trahan]

Has anyone been able to print labels using the FedEx web service API's using 
CF? I have tried in the past and it is very cumbersome to say the least but I 
didn't know if anyone has got this working.  I see many references to getting 
rates and tracking but nothing pointing to actually generating a label.

Thank you for any tips that can be forwarded on.
Shane 

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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Roger Austin]

 Mary Jo Sminkey  wrote: 
> Having said that, I really am thrilled to hear that they are giving it for 
> free for educational use. That certainly is a big step in the right direction 
> and that along with educational use of the server really shows that they are 
> starting to see that bringing in more developers is really critical for the 
> future of ColdFusion. 

 Most of the schools I know about are teaching Java. Sounds to me 
like an uphill battle, but it is in Adobe's interest and long overdue.
I would like to hear more about how Adobe plans to market to education 
institutions. Is the ColdFusion Server actually going to be free to 
education systems? I had not heard that.

--
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-austin/8/a4/60
http://twitter.com/RogerTheGeek
http://www.misshunt.com/ Home of the Clean/Dirty Magnet
http://www.ncdevcon.com/ TACFUG 2010 Conference in North Carolina


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Re: Querying LDAP

[Michael Dawson]

>Hi,
>
>I want to see if a user exist or not in group AI. here is my LDAP query-
>___
>action="query" 
>attributes="member" 
>start="OU=Endgroups,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du" 
>server="someserver" 
>username="someuser"
>filter="cn=ai"
>password="somepasswd"
>name="getLdapUser">
>___
>
>And Here is the what i am getting(cfdumping getLdapUser)-
>___
>
>CN=xyz,OU=EndUsers,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du, 
>CN=mnop,OU=EndUsers,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du, 
>CN=pqr,CN=Users,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du, 
>CN=stuv,CN=Users,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du, 
>CN=wxyz,OU=EndUsers,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du,
>___
>
>Please tell what should be correct LDAP query.
>
>Thanks

You need to specify a filter attribute, in the CFLDAP tag.

... filter = "cn=xyz" ...

You can also use "name" or "sAMAccountName" as the filter criteria (as long as 
they match the CN value).

The query will return 1 or 0 records, depending if it finds a match.

mike 

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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Mary Jo Sminkey]

>Lets be fair Rick, ColdFusion Builder can and will be installed as a stand
>alone product in a very large number of cases.


Truebut I wonder if that will continue to be an issue when installing 
updates, as it was with the betas. Normal Eclipse plugins update much more 
elegantly than CFB did, and what I've heard is this will continue to be the 
case. I don't know if it's true, but it definitely is something I would 
consider when moving to it off the normal Eclipse environment. 


>Those of us that code CFML all day
>everyday need a full featured product that works and is fast.  ColdFusion
>Builder has that potential.


Potential yes, but it's not there yet, at least for me. I'd agree that things 
like better code folding, proper word-wrapping, better CFC introspection and 
other such features are things that *would* make it worth the price. It's 
certainly got some things that are very beneficial, the syntax checker I found 
to be excellent overall, and certainly if you are using some of the CF9 stuff 
like ORM, that would be a big plus. But then I look at some of the unresolved 
issues like the scrolling bug that just drives me nuts and easily kill my 
productivity when I run across it on a regular basis. I had lots of issues with 
the tag insight and tag help as well, that often inserted when I didn't want it 
to, and yet didn't come up when I needed. It's two steps back for me for every 
thing it helps with. 

I think the best approach they could have taken would have been what they did 
with Lightroom when that came out and offered it to all the initial buyers at 
$100 off (knowing that we were essentially still going to be beta testing it 
for them, and also being up-front from the start that it was an introductory 
price only good for a certain amount of time). That would have been a big way 
to support all the existing developers and getting them on board with the 
product, without committing themselves to a lower price going forward. Release 
a good enough 2.0 version and most users will pay to upgrade anyway. 

Having said that, I really am thrilled to hear that they are giving it for free 
for educational use. That certainly is a big step in the right direction and 
that along with educational use of the server really shows that they are 
starting to see that bringing in more developers is really critical for the 
future of ColdFusion. 




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Re: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[denstar]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Judah McAuley wrote:
>
> I'm still up for trying to make this happen once I get my current side
> project out the door. I can't stand having to go back and open up all
> my Service objects when I'm in my handler trying to remember what I
> named all of my methods and what arguments they take.  This isn't one
> of those areas where CFML being dynamic and duck typed is an
> issue...well, the dynamic part comes in somewhat. But the real issue
> is just having the IDE know where to go find the files to pay
> attention to. Once it knows where the files are, it can certainly
> parse them and show a list of methods and their arguments.

Yup, and finding files is part of why I started the cfml.project
project.  I want to be able to specify in one place where mappings
are, for instance, and let CFE (+framework explorer), MXUnit, and
cfdistro/etc. use the same info, if it's there.

The framework explorer *could* offer auto-complete and do validation
on (for instance) ColdSpring XML files.

There's no way around *having* to provide some extra information, for
some stuff, but we can actually suss out quite a bit automatically.

> Lets see who gets there first, Adam, CFEclipse or CFBuilder.  Let's
> see some real IDE's for CFML that understand modern application
> development, like DI, Composition and Inheritance :)

This is part of why I'd like to see some manner of sharing resources.

It's going to require some thought, as CFB is based on Aptana and
Aptana has it's own way of doing a lot of stuff (much like DLTK has
it's own way-- DLTK is what I'm looking at for providing a "all in
one" CFML/XML/HTML/CSS/Javascript version, but we'll see what
happens)... what I'd really like to see is an open source
parser/CFMLModel deal that both projects could use at the core, and
expose to Aptana or DLTK (or whatever) however needed.

Stuff that we could have paid developers working on (Adobe), as well
as The Community (us)...

It would have to wait until the CFML language spec stuff is kinda
rolling along, probably, but it's something to think about...

:DeN

-- 
Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony.
Heraclit

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Re: Features (Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!)

[Judah McAuley]

I'm still up for trying to make this happen once I get my current side
project out the door. I can't stand having to go back and open up all
my Service objects when I'm in my handler trying to remember what I
named all of my methods and what arguments they take.  This isn't one
of those areas where CFML being dynamic and duck typed is an
issue...well, the dynamic part comes in somewhat. But the real issue
is just having the IDE know where to go find the files to pay
attention to. Once it knows where the files are, it can certainly
parse them and show a list of methods and their arguments.

Lets see who gets there first, Adam, CFEclipse or CFBuilder.  Let's
see some real IDE's for CFML that understand modern application
development, like DI, Composition and Inheritance :)

Judah

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:11 PM, denstar  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:10 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> +1 on this feature.  I also use ColdBox and autowire most of my objects
>> in.  I know some things are impossible with a dynamic language like CF,
>> but I'd be willing to right click on a variable name in a CFC and
>> specify the CFC that it is an instance of and have CFB somehow remember
>> that if it would mean I could type variables.mySerivce. and have the
>> list of methods pop up.
>
> Now /this/ is where things get interesting!
>
> The "framework explorer" is the place to put this logic in CFE.  No
> clicking needed, all automatic-stylez.
>
> While that doesn't help CFB out at all, what I'd like to see is both
> editors offering extension points that somehow allow us to have one
> version of the framework explorer (split back off into it's own
> plugin) that could contribute to both.
>
> Probably impossible, currently, but still.
>
> It would be soo cool if we could find some stuff that both the
> Open Source Community and Adobe could sorta collaborate on, while
> still furthering the individual goals of each project.
>
> FWIW, I've split out a lot of the things in CFE that might be useful
> in places besides Eclipse (the dictionaries, the formatter, the
> parser, and a deal for storing cfml project-related info) into their
> own projects.
>
> This will provide a base for things like code-coverage tools and
> whatnot to leverage, which I feel is important to CFML as a language,
> and has been lacking thus far.
>
> For the peeps.
>
> :DeN
>
> --
> Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at 
> play.
> Heraclit
>
> 

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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Andy Allan]

And you've got 60 days at no cost (other than your own time) to decide
if it is indeed worth the $299 (£171+vat in the UK).

Andy

On 23 March 2010 16:53, Will Swain  wrote:
>
> A 1 year sub to Zend Studio with upgrades and support, a PHP IDE which looks
> like a fairly equitable product in terms of functionality, sells for $399.
>
> I haven't used it, so cannot comment on it's quality, and admittedly it does
> appear to be a more mature product. But still.
>
> FWIW my opinion is that $99 would be too low. $299 isn't even a half days
> work, so if builder make me more productive it's a no brainer. Will it save
> me more than 4 hours time over it's lifetime? IMO it will.
>
> Just my 2p worth
>
> Will
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:r...@whitestonemedia.com]
> Sent: 23 March 2010 15:22
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!
>
>
>> FlashBuilder
>> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4
>> (Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.
>
> I think this is evidence supporting my supposition that Adobe
> has priced this product too high...$50, I think, would be low, $99
> about right, but getting it, basically, for $50 if I agree to buy
> FlashBuilder is an
> indicator of what Adobe feels it's true value is, perhaps.
>
> If they want to sell more licenses, give the IDE away and compete
> more aggressively with those that use free tools and servers all the time.
>
> Their shareholder's greed (which has been offered as the reason for the high
> price of CFB several times) to make money at *every* turn
> will be their downfall in the end.
>
> We now have free CF servers (which I'd be using if I couldn't get a great
> VPS
> at a reasonable price)and free CF Coding tools which are, for me at least,
> on par with CFB for the functionality I use.
>
> When others start investing serious time and effort, if not money, into
> developing
> completing products that are offered for free to compete against
> a company's offerings, that's an indication to me there's a problem with the
> company
> and what's it turning out.
>
> I just can't figure out whether this bundling deal is an effort to get more
> copies of FB or CB out the door.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:57 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!
>
>
> Charlie Griefer wrote:
> "Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
> uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
> licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
> developers, Java developers, etc."
>
> I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder
> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4
> (Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing
> PHP/Flex developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to
> pay $299 to get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50
> less and just get the IDE they need?
>
> thanks,
>
> eric cobb
> ecar technologies, llc
> http://www.cfgears.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Wil Genovese]

"But I, like others, was quite shocked when the price tag for a plug-in
was revealed as $300, same as Dreamweaver."

Lets be fair Rick, ColdFusion Builder can and will be installed as a stand
alone product in a very large number of cases. Mainly by those that never
use an Eclipse based product at this point. ColdFusion Builder is MORE than
just a plug-in and it does Integrate to your entire development environment
(in some cases better than others).  Those of us that code CFML all day
everyday need a full featured product that works and is fast.  ColdFusion
Builder has that potential.

Next, $299 for and IDE that make you productive IS worth it. I am probably
the only person not complaining about the price in this thread even though I
was really hoping Adobe would price it in the $99 to $149 price range.

Wil


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Rick Faircloth
wrote:

>
> I don't think there's really *any* IDE that I think is worth $300
> currently,
> since there are really good free and low-cost options available.
>
> I'm not a coder who would benefit from all the functionality that
> CFBuilder (or CFEclipse, for that matter) offers, since I don't need
> the "high-end" functionality that some coders on this list would
> benefit from.
>
> But I, like others, was quite shocked when the price tag for a plug-in
> was revealed as $300, same as Dreamweaver.
>
> Perhaps it really should be $300 if it took 40% of your "resources"
> (whatever that is...hours of work?...development budget?) to get the
> product out.  And how much income does "1/30th that of ColdFusion Server"
> represent?  And I wonder how long it took Mark Drew to write CFEclipse
> as a "part-time" project apart from his day job?  One part-time coder
> versus 40% of Adobe's "resources".  Adobe took what...a year and a half
> to get CFBuilder created as a plug-in, with Eclipse already existing as
> a foundation and CFEclipse as a reference model?  (Maybe the coders took
> longer than they should)
>
> It would definitely put things into proper perspective to know what
> Adobe's investment in monetary terms has been as compared to projected
> revenue.  But Adobe doesn't have to justify anything to me, as Dave Watts
> has pointed out.
>
> They do, however, have to enable me to justify spending the money on
> a product that's offered.
>
> Just one thing that would have probably caused me to purchase
> CFB...inclusion
> of state-sustaining, manual code folding.  But that's just something I
> personally
> have desired...doesn't seem to be a desired feature for many others.  That
> functionality, alone, is worth $300 to me to increase my productivity in
> navigating increasingly complex and lengthy pages.  I would pay $300 to get
> that functionality added to CFEclipse...and I probably will at some point.
> I'd code it myself if I had a clue of how to do it.
>
> Thanks for listening...
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:06 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!
>
>
> Rick,
>
> I'm still curious to know what a $299 IDE would constitute in your opinion.
> This entire thread has been about price and price alone, with a single
> mention of feature or worth.
>
> For the record (and I hope I don't get in trouble to for this in print),
> the
> projected revenue of ColdFusion Builder is 1/30th that of ColdFusion
> Server,
> yet we devoted nearly 40% of our resources to build it... you tell me if
> that math sounds like "making as high a return as possible with every
> product".
>
> You've got the wrong opinion about Adobe, the ColdFusion team and myself.
>
> It's easy to paint Adobe as some big evil corporate entity but I speak for
> myself and the CF team when I say our number one goal is to empower our
> customers to create.
>
> -Adam
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Rick Faircloth
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Realize, that "I" haven't stated that the shareholders are
> greedy...that's
> > simply the reason (in different terms) that others have offered as an
> > explanation for the high price of CFB.
> >
> > If I knew for a fact that they were making a reasonable profit at $299,
> > I'd have no complaint...you've got to recoup investment and *some*
> profit.
> >
> > But others in this discussion have suggested that it's the shareholders
> who
> > insist on making as high a return as possible with every product.  I
> don't
> > know that for a fact, so I wouldn't so it was so.
> >
> > And as to the reasoning that Adobe is simply trying to "sweeten the deal"
> > by providing a copy of CFB to the Flash Builder community for $50 is
> quite
> > insulting to those of us who are not Flash Builder users.  Adobe, in that
> > case,
> > would simply be charging a premium to those of us who don't use Flash
> > Builder
> > to subsidize what amount to almost a giveaway to the Flash Builder
> > community.
> >
> > Yes, I feel aggravated by that and somewhat indi

Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[denstar]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Rick Faircloth wrote:
...
> represent?  And I wonder how long it took Mark Drew to write CFEclipse
> as a "part-time" project apart from his day job?  One part-time coder
> versus 40% of Adobe's "resources".  Adobe took what...a year and a half
> to get CFBuilder created as a plug-in, with Eclipse already existing as
> a foundation and CFEclipse as a reference model?  (Maybe the coders took
> longer than they should)

I think Rob Rohan wrote the first version of CFE (I could totally be
wrong, apologies if so), and there have been several contributors
since then.

FWIW, ohloh thinks it cost around $5,480,570 to develop CFE and around
100 person years.

And that's with at least a few (initial!) years of history missing.

I don't think those numbers really mean much, but it's interesting, anyways.

Since Adobe went with Aptana, they had less to write, but it's still a
monumental task.

Also FWIW, I don't know that we've seen /what/ Adobe wants for CFB,
really.  I'm guessing that the bundle deal is part of them trying to
find a price-point, perhaps.

Seems like people would be willing to pay about $100-$150 for a
stand-alone of the current incarnation...

:DeN

-- 
No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river
and he's not the same man.
Heracl

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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Azadi Saryev]

On 24/03/2010 00:35, Rick Faircloth wrote:
> Just one thing that would have probably caused me to purchase
> CFB...inclusion
> of state-sustaining, manual code folding.  But that's just something I
> personally
> have desired...doesn't seem to be a desired feature for many others.  That
> functionality, alone, is worth $300 to me to increase my productivity in
> navigating increasingly complex and lengthy pages.

Rick,

fyi, dreamweaver (at least cs4) does have that functionality. you can
collapse any code block (not just code lines - even parts of lines) and
next time you open that file it will still be collapsed.

Azadi

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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Sam Mawby]

I've got one more observation that hasn't been mentioned so far. ColdFusion 
Builder is very much linked to Adobe CFML Servers/Engine. To my mind the editor 
isn't for the CFML community but for a select part of the community. If it was 
a CFML editor it would be equally productive for Railo and BluedDragon users. 
What you're doing by spending your $300 is being cleverly tied into the Adobe 
brand (range of products). As a ColdFusion fan what I want is a tool that helps 
me develop CFML code and one that does not tie me to a platform (whether that 
be Adobe ColdFusion, Railo, or Bluedragon). As the product doesn't serve this 
purpose I'd argue it doesn't justify the price (or perhaps a price at all). In 
a lot of ways I think the move is a good one for Adobe (people feeling they 
need to buy it; getting more interest in Flex/Flash) but equally I think it is 
bad news for the CFML community as a whole. CFML has always lacked an excellent 
editor and this is definitely not addressed by ColdFusion Builder. It's an ok 
product but that's all.

Sam Mawby

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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Will Swain]

A 1 year sub to Zend Studio with upgrades and support, a PHP IDE which looks
like a fairly equitable product in terms of functionality, sells for $399.

I haven't used it, so cannot comment on it's quality, and admittedly it does
appear to be a more mature product. But still. 

FWIW my opinion is that $99 would be too low. $299 isn't even a half days
work, so if builder make me more productive it's a no brainer. Will it save
me more than 4 hours time over it's lifetime? IMO it will.

Just my 2p worth

Will

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:r...@whitestonemedia.com] 
Sent: 23 March 2010 15:22
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!


> FlashBuilder 
> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4 
> (Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  

I think this is evidence supporting my supposition that Adobe
has priced this product too high...$50, I think, would be low, $99
about right, but getting it, basically, for $50 if I agree to buy
FlashBuilder is an
indicator of what Adobe feels it's true value is, perhaps.

If they want to sell more licenses, give the IDE away and compete
more aggressively with those that use free tools and servers all the time.

Their shareholder's greed (which has been offered as the reason for the high
price of CFB several times) to make money at *every* turn
will be their downfall in the end.

We now have free CF servers (which I'd be using if I couldn't get a great
VPS
at a reasonable price)and free CF Coding tools which are, for me at least,
on par with CFB for the functionality I use.

When others start investing serious time and effort, if not money, into
developing
completing products that are offered for free to compete against
a company's offerings, that's an indication to me there's a problem with the
company
and what's it turning out.

I just can't figure out whether this bundling deal is an effort to get more
copies of FB or CB out the door.


-Original Message-
From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:57 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


Charlie Griefer wrote:
"Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
developers, Java developers, etc."

I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder 
4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4 
(Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing 
PHP/Flex developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to 
pay $299 to get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50 
less and just get the IDE they need? 

thanks,

eric cobb
ecar technologies, llc
http://www.cfgears.com







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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Rick Faircloth]

I don't think there's really *any* IDE that I think is worth $300 currently,
since there are really good free and low-cost options available.

I'm not a coder who would benefit from all the functionality that
CFBuilder (or CFEclipse, for that matter) offers, since I don't need
the "high-end" functionality that some coders on this list would
benefit from.

But I, like others, was quite shocked when the price tag for a plug-in
was revealed as $300, same as Dreamweaver.

Perhaps it really should be $300 if it took 40% of your "resources"
(whatever that is...hours of work?...development budget?) to get the
product out.  And how much income does "1/30th that of ColdFusion Server"
represent?  And I wonder how long it took Mark Drew to write CFEclipse
as a "part-time" project apart from his day job?  One part-time coder
versus 40% of Adobe's "resources".  Adobe took what...a year and a half
to get CFBuilder created as a plug-in, with Eclipse already existing as
a foundation and CFEclipse as a reference model?  (Maybe the coders took
longer than they should)

It would definitely put things into proper perspective to know what
Adobe's investment in monetary terms has been as compared to projected
revenue.  But Adobe doesn't have to justify anything to me, as Dave Watts
has pointed out.

They do, however, have to enable me to justify spending the money on
a product that's offered.

Just one thing that would have probably caused me to purchase
CFB...inclusion
of state-sustaining, manual code folding.  But that's just something I
personally
have desired...doesn't seem to be a desired feature for many others.  That
functionality, alone, is worth $300 to me to increase my productivity in
navigating increasingly complex and lengthy pages.  I would pay $300 to get
that functionality added to CFEclipse...and I probably will at some point.
I'd code it myself if I had a clue of how to do it.

Thanks for listening...

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:06 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


Rick,

I'm still curious to know what a $299 IDE would constitute in your opinion.
This entire thread has been about price and price alone, with a single
mention of feature or worth.

For the record (and I hope I don't get in trouble to for this in print), the
projected revenue of ColdFusion Builder is 1/30th that of ColdFusion Server,
yet we devoted nearly 40% of our resources to build it... you tell me if
that math sounds like "making as high a return as possible with every
product".

You've got the wrong opinion about Adobe, the ColdFusion team and myself.

It's easy to paint Adobe as some big evil corporate entity but I speak for
myself and the CF team when I say our number one goal is to empower our
customers to create.

-Adam

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Rick Faircloth
wrote:

>
> Realize, that "I" haven't stated that the shareholders are greedy...that's
> simply the reason (in different terms) that others have offered as an
> explanation for the high price of CFB.
>
> If I knew for a fact that they were making a reasonable profit at $299,
> I'd have no complaint...you've got to recoup investment and *some* profit.
>
> But others in this discussion have suggested that it's the shareholders
who
> insist on making as high a return as possible with every product.  I don't
> know that for a fact, so I wouldn't so it was so.
>
> And as to the reasoning that Adobe is simply trying to "sweeten the deal"
> by providing a copy of CFB to the Flash Builder community for $50 is quite
> insulting to those of us who are not Flash Builder users.  Adobe, in that
> case,
> would simply be charging a premium to those of us who don't use Flash
> Builder
> to subsidize what amount to almost a giveaway to the Flash Builder
> community.
>
> Yes, I feel aggravated by that and somewhat indignant, if the above is
> true.
> I'd think the first community Adobe would want to offer a substantial
> discount
> for CFB would those who own CF Server.  (And realize, that wouldn't
benefit
> me,
> since I use a VPS offered by a hosting company and no longer own a CF
> server
> beyond 4.2)




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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Wil Genovese]

Adam,

This is the point I've been trying to make to Adobe all along. ColdFusion
server is Enterprise level middle-ware. We run our service, Mlsfinder.com,
across four physical ColdFusion Enterprise servers. We see 2.5 to 3 million
page views per day.  (I know, small compared to FaceBook but still huge.)
We service MLS markets across the country and to do that requires lots and
lots of code. This is a 10 year old application that is not as efficient as
it should be, but this is the real world. Giant apps like this are never
ideal lab cases, however they are great cases for testing and over stressing
an IDE. Which is does.

The argument you've been making to me is that the bugs I mentioned were
newly reported bugs that were reported after the RC release or that
performance issues are due to third parties. The editor bug of the screen
shifting left and right when editing longs lines was first reported five
months ago. Some of the other bugs are newly reported bugs. You also said
third parties like plug-ins or bugs in Aptana were the cause.  Well, I would
suspect at this point Adobe has a good working relationship with Aptana and
if Adobe found a bug one or both of two things could/should happen. Either
Aptana hurries up and fixes it OR Adobe contributes the fix to Aptana. So to
blame Aptana seems a little unfair.

So that leaves the Subversive plug-in for my SVN access. ColdFusion Builder
is an IDE so yes, I want SVN access "Integrated". I've worked with Subclipse
and Subversive and the results between the two are the same. Both make
CFBuilder dead slow on large SVN repositories. Even Aptana and
Eclipse/CFEclipse get slowed down. However, they are not nearly as bogged
down as CFBuilder. In addition CFBuilder always ends up throwing errors part
way through the process. An update of my code will take 10 to 20 minutes
with CFBuilder on a good day.

So yesterday I installed Aptana and CFEclipse and Subversive. Imagine my
surprise when found NONE of the issues I had in ColdFusion Builder. Plus
updating the code base from SVN only took 5.5 minutes.

So what am I left thinking? I'm thinking there are bugs in ColdFusion
Builder that need to be resolved before I will buy it for myself and before
I can give my recommendation at work that we buy this for our development
team.

Adam, you know me, we've talked in person and you've visited the company I
work at, WolfNet Technologies. Help me out here, I really want to buy this
product and openly support it in the ColdFusion Community.

So to answer your question of what would make a $299 IDE worth it? My answer
is fix what you have. Then I will recommend it to our development team and
company.  Then lets build version 2.0!

Thank You,

Wil Genovese


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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Adrocknaphobia]

Rick,

I'm still curious to know what a $299 IDE would constitute in your opinion.
This entire thread has been about price and price alone, with a single
mention of feature or worth.

For the record (and I hope I don't get in trouble to for this in print), the
projected revenue of ColdFusion Builder is 1/30th that of ColdFusion Server,
yet we devoted nearly 40% of our resources to build it... you tell me if
that math sounds like "making as high a return as possible with every
product".

You've got the wrong opinion about Adobe, the ColdFusion team and myself.

It's easy to paint Adobe as some big evil corporate entity but I speak for
myself and the CF team when I say our number one goal is to empower our
customers to create.

-Adam

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Rick Faircloth
wrote:

>
> Realize, that "I" haven't stated that the shareholders are greedy...that's
> simply the reason (in different terms) that others have offered as an
> explanation for the high price of CFB.
>
> If I knew for a fact that they were making a reasonable profit at $299,
> I'd have no complaint...you've got to recoup investment and *some* profit.
>
> But others in this discussion have suggested that it's the shareholders who
> insist on making as high a return as possible with every product.  I don't
> know that for a fact, so I wouldn't so it was so.
>
> And as to the reasoning that Adobe is simply trying to "sweeten the deal"
> by providing a copy of CFB to the Flash Builder community for $50 is quite
> insulting to those of us who are not Flash Builder users.  Adobe, in that
> case,
> would simply be charging a premium to those of us who don't use Flash
> Builder
> to subsidize what amount to almost a giveaway to the Flash Builder
> community.
>
> Yes, I feel aggravated by that and somewhat indignant, if the above is
> true.
> I'd think the first community Adobe would want to offer a substantial
> discount
> for CFB would those who own CF Server.  (And realize, that wouldn't benefit
> me,
> since I use a VPS offered by a hosting company and no longer own a CF
> server
> beyond 4.2)


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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Rick Faircloth]

Dave, you'd make a wonderful psycho-therapist...

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:50 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


> I think this is evidence supporting my supposition that Adobe
> has priced this product too high...$50, I think, would be low, $99
> about right, but getting it, basically, for $50 if I agree to buy
> FlashBuilder is an indicator of what Adobe feels it's true value is,
perhaps.

This only supports that they've priced it too high for you. And that's
fine. But to extend this to everyone else is not so fine, in the same
way that it wouldn't be appropriate for me to dictate your hourly
rate.

> If they want to sell more licenses, give the IDE away and compete
> more aggressively with those that use free tools and servers all the time.
>
> Their shareholder's greed (which has been offered as the reason for the
high
> price of CFB several times) to make money at *every* turn will be their
downfall
> in the end.

You know, this is what software companies do, right? They SELL
SOFTWARE. This isn't a matter of greed any more than it is when you
sell your own services. If you discovered tomorrow that it's no longer
profitable to do what you're doing, you'd presumably do something
else.

Some companies have different pricing models than others. Some
companies give away products and sell related services (support,
implementation). That doesn't seem viable to me for CF Builder. Other
companies have loss-leader products that they use to boost sales of
other products: Microsoft, for example, really just sells Windows and
Office, and almost everything else is a way to sell Windows and Office
licenses. Maybe you think that's what Adobe should be doing, they
obviously disagree. But none of these companies are doing what they do
for any other reason except to make a profit. That's what successful
companies do. They aren't charities.

> We now have free CF servers (which I'd be using if I couldn't get a great
> VPS at a reasonable price)and free CF Coding tools which are, for me at
least,
> on par with CFB for the functionality I use.

Then use them! But don't think that you know Adobe's business better
than they do.

> When others start investing serious time and effort, if not money, into
> developing completing products that are offered for free to compete
against
> a company's offerings, that's an indication to me there's a problem with
the
> company and what's it turning out.

This is clearly why Microsoft and Apple went out of business after
Linux took over the desktop.

> I just can't figure out whether this bundling deal is an effort to get
more
> copies of FB or CB out the door.

ColdFusion is the perfect complement to Flash developers, although
many don't know it. It has built-in remoting, and ties into
LCDS/BlazeDS very nicely. And Flex development is a good approach for
many CF applications. So it doesn't necessarily have anything to do
with getting more copies of X out the door.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.



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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Rick Faircloth]

Realize, that "I" haven't stated that the shareholders are greedy...that's
simply the reason (in different terms) that others have offered as an
explanation for the high price of CFB.

If I knew for a fact that they were making a reasonable profit at $299,
I'd have no complaint...you've got to recoup investment and *some* profit.

But others in this discussion have suggested that it's the shareholders who
insist on making as high a return as possible with every product.  I don't
know that for a fact, so I wouldn't so it was so.

And as to the reasoning that Adobe is simply trying to "sweeten the deal"
by providing a copy of CFB to the Flash Builder community for $50 is quite
insulting to those of us who are not Flash Builder users.  Adobe, in that
case,
would simply be charging a premium to those of us who don't use Flash
Builder
to subsidize what amount to almost a giveaway to the Flash Builder
community.

Yes, I feel aggravated by that and somewhat indignant, if the above is true.
I'd think the first community Adobe would want to offer a substantial
discount
for CFB would those who own CF Server.  (And realize, that wouldn't benefit
me,
since I use a VPS offered by a hosting company and no longer own a CF server
beyond 4.2)

-Original Message-
From: Brad Wood [mailto:b...@bradwood.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:39 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


I hate to say it, but even without Flash Builder, Coldfusion Builder 
probably would have cost the same.  Flash Builder was most likely thrown in 
to sweeten the deal and add value.  Flash Builder is probably already has a 
foothold large enough to cover more of its development costs-- not to 
mention the professional version is $699.  They can probably afford to toss 
a copy of the standard version in CFB for the people who want it.  Creating 
a bundle for every person's needs is not always the best thing either.  If 
you get your pricing matrix too confusing it just frustrates people.

Also, you can call the shareholders "greedy" but unless you know how much 
money Adobe poured into CFB for the past year and a half you really can't 
prove their making bank on anything.

~Brad

- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Cobb" 
To: "cf-talk" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


>
> Charlie Griefer wrote:
> "Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
> uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
> licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
> developers, Java developers, etc."
>
> I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder
> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4
> (Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing
> PHP/Flex developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to
> pay $299 to get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50
> less and just get the IDE they need?
>




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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Dave Watts]

> I think this is evidence supporting my supposition that Adobe
> has priced this product too high...$50, I think, would be low, $99
> about right, but getting it, basically, for $50 if I agree to buy
> FlashBuilder is an indicator of what Adobe feels it's true value is, perhaps.

This only supports that they've priced it too high for you. And that's
fine. But to extend this to everyone else is not so fine, in the same
way that it wouldn't be appropriate for me to dictate your hourly
rate.

> If they want to sell more licenses, give the IDE away and compete
> more aggressively with those that use free tools and servers all the time.
>
> Their shareholder's greed (which has been offered as the reason for the high
> price of CFB several times) to make money at *every* turn will be their 
> downfall
> in the end.

You know, this is what software companies do, right? They SELL
SOFTWARE. This isn't a matter of greed any more than it is when you
sell your own services. If you discovered tomorrow that it's no longer
profitable to do what you're doing, you'd presumably do something
else.

Some companies have different pricing models than others. Some
companies give away products and sell related services (support,
implementation). That doesn't seem viable to me for CF Builder. Other
companies have loss-leader products that they use to boost sales of
other products: Microsoft, for example, really just sells Windows and
Office, and almost everything else is a way to sell Windows and Office
licenses. Maybe you think that's what Adobe should be doing, they
obviously disagree. But none of these companies are doing what they do
for any other reason except to make a profit. That's what successful
companies do. They aren't charities.

> We now have free CF servers (which I'd be using if I couldn't get a great
> VPS at a reasonable price)and free CF Coding tools which are, for me at least,
> on par with CFB for the functionality I use.

Then use them! But don't think that you know Adobe's business better
than they do.

> When others start investing serious time and effort, if not money, into
> developing completing products that are offered for free to compete against
> a company's offerings, that's an indication to me there's a problem with the
> company and what's it turning out.

This is clearly why Microsoft and Apple went out of business after
Linux took over the desktop.

> I just can't figure out whether this bundling deal is an effort to get more
> copies of FB or CB out the door.

ColdFusion is the perfect complement to Flash developers, although
many don't know it. It has built-in remoting, and ties into
LCDS/BlazeDS very nicely. And Flex development is a good approach for
many CF applications. So it doesn't necessarily have anything to do
with getting more copies of X out the door.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

~|
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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Brad Wood]

I hate to say it, but even without Flash Builder, Coldfusion Builder 
probably would have cost the same.  Flash Builder was most likely thrown in 
to sweeten the deal and add value.  Flash Builder is probably already has a 
foothold large enough to cover more of its development costs-- not to 
mention the professional version is $699.  They can probably afford to toss 
a copy of the standard version in CFB for the people who want it.  Creating 
a bundle for every person's needs is not always the best thing either.  If 
you get your pricing matrix too confusing it just frustrates people.

Also, you can call the shareholders "greedy" but unless you know how much 
money Adobe poured into CFB for the past year and a half you really can't 
prove their making bank on anything.

~Brad

- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Cobb" 
To: "cf-talk" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


>
> Charlie Griefer wrote:
> "Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
> uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
> licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
> developers, Java developers, etc."
>
> I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder
> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4
> (Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing
> PHP/Flex developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to
> pay $299 to get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50
> less and just get the IDE they need?
>


~|
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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Charlie Griefer]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Eric Cobb  wrote:

>
> Charlie Griefer wrote:
> "Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
> uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
> licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
> developers, Java developers, etc."
>
> I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder
> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4
> (Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing
> PHP/Flex developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to
> pay $299 to get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50
> less and just get the IDE they need?
>

No, I think you're right in that scenario.  A Flex developer out to upgrade
to FlashBuilder -Standard- isn't going to go, "Oh... I can spend an extra
$50 and buy ColdFusion Builder instead, which contains FlashBuilder."  Sure
:)

But the FlexBuilder 3 Professional folks who are going to upgrade to
FlashBuilder 4 are going to get ColdFusion Builder as part of that upgrade.
 They're the PHP developers, Java developers, etc to whom I was referring.

-- 
Charlie Griefer
http://charlie.griefer.com/

I have failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my life. I love my
wife. And I wish you my kind of success.


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Querying LDAP

[sandeep saini]

Hi,

I want to see if a user exist or not in group AI. here is my LDAP query-
___
 
___

And Here is the what i am getting(cfdumping getLdapUser)-
___

CN=xyz,OU=EndUsers,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du, 
CN=mnop,OU=EndUsers,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du, 
CN=pqr,CN=Users,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du, 
CN=stuv,CN=Users,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du, 
CN=wxyz,OU=EndUsers,DC=uad,DC=su,DC=du,
___

Please tell what should be correct LDAP query.

Thanks




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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Rick Faircloth]

I feel the pride! :o)



-Original Message-
From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:35 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


Yes!  Andy agreed with me!  I'm going to print this out and frame it!   ;-)

thanks,

eric cobb
ecar technologies, llc
http://www.cfgears.com



Andy Matthews wrote:
> As much as it kills me to say that Eric is right, and it does, I think
he's
> right. A developer in another language isn't gonna pay MORE for something
> they don't need, and probably wouldn't use.
>
> ;)
>
>
> andy 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:57 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!
>
>
> Charlie Griefer wrote:
> "Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
> uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
> licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
> developers, Java developers, etc."
>
> I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder
> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4
(Standard
> Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing PHP/Flex
> developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to pay $299 to
> get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50 less and just
> get the IDE they need? 
>
> thanks,
>
> eric cobb
> ecar technologies, llc
> http://www.cfgears.com
>
>   
>




~|
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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Rick Faircloth]

> FlashBuilder 
> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4 
> (Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  

I think this is evidence supporting my supposition that Adobe
has priced this product too high...$50, I think, would be low, $99
about right, but getting it, basically, for $50 if I agree to buy
FlashBuilder is an
indicator of what Adobe feels it's true value is, perhaps.

If they want to sell more licenses, give the IDE away and compete
more aggressively with those that use free tools and servers all the time.

Their shareholder's greed (which has been offered as the reason for the high
price of CFB several times) to make money at *every* turn
will be their downfall in the end.

We now have free CF servers (which I'd be using if I couldn't get a great
VPS
at a reasonable price)and free CF Coding tools which are, for me at least,
on par with CFB for the functionality I use.

When others start investing serious time and effort, if not money, into
developing
completing products that are offered for free to compete against
a company's offerings, that's an indication to me there's a problem with the
company
and what's it turning out.

I just can't figure out whether this bundling deal is an effort to get more
copies of FB or CB out the door.


-Original Message-
From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:57 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


Charlie Griefer wrote:
"Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
developers, Java developers, etc."

I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder 
4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4 
(Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing 
PHP/Flex developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to 
pay $299 to get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50 
less and just get the IDE they need? 

thanks,

eric cobb
ecar technologies, llc
http://www.cfgears.com



Charlie Griefer wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey
wrote:
>
>   
>>> The cost has to do with Adobe being a publicly traded company needing to
>>> generate revenue and hopefully post a profit.  The cost would therefore
>>>   
>> more
>> 
>>> likely be based on the amount of effort (time/money) involved in
>>>   
>> developing
>> 
>>> (research, planning, developing, testing, marketing) the product.
>>>   
>> A lot of us hoped they would see that selling it a lower price point
would
>> help to increase the uptake of the language as a whole and thus
ultimately
>> sell more server licenses. For a large company like Adobe, profit is what
>> the company makes as a whole, not what one product alone brings in.
>> Microsoft learned this a long time ago and has used free and low-priced
>> items to increase their revenue in other areas, and it's certainly a
large
>> reason for their success.
>>
>> 
>
> Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
> uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
> licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
> developers, Java developers, etc.  Everyone who uses Flex but doesn't use
CF
> on the server side.
>
> I'm not exactly sure that selling it at a lower price point would have the
> same effect.  It'd appeal to those of us who currently use ColdFusion...
> we'd conceivably be able to buy the product for $199 instead of $299.
Ok...
> but I don't see where that would necessarily increase the uptake of the
> language as a whole.
>
>   
>> I also think their move to bundle CFBuilder with FlashBuilder -is-
>> 
>>> encouraging developers.  It's encouraging me to make the foray into
Flex,
>>> which is something that I've wanted to do for a while now.
>>>   
>> Not if the price discourages me from even buying the product in the first
>> place.
>>
>> 
>
> But you're already a ColdFusion developer.  If I wanted to buy FlexBuilder
3
> last year, I'd have paid $299 (i think... it was certainly in that
> neighborhood).  So we know that Flex developers are willing to pay that
> amount.  They're going to pay the same thing this year, and get ColdFusion
> Builder.  Adobe is pretty much giving it away to the Flex community in
hopes
> of doing what you say... increase the uptake of the language as a whole.
>
> We CF folk.. we pay a little bit more than the $199 we hoped it would be,
> and get FlashBuilder.  So not only is Adobe conceivably introducing CF to
> other developers, but it's conceivably introducing Flex/FlashBuilder to
us.
>
> I'm sorry that people think $300 is too expensive.  I know that
"expensive"
> is a subjective term, and while some people can whip out their credit
cards
> and order a cop

RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Eric Roberts]

Yes...you are incorrect Terry.  The "standalone" installation just installs
a copy of eclipse for you instead of installing the plugin into a currently
installed copy of eclipse.

Eric

-Original Message-
From: Terry Troxel [mailto:te...@it-werks.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:09 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!


Wow, I haven't seen this many posts on one topic in ages.
It got my attention and I dl'ed the trial as a standalone (so unless I am
wrong here it is a program that can run on its own without Eclipse).
A while back I posted a question about me being a simple CF only programmer,
no java, etc. and would Eclipse help me and the feedback convinced me it was
way overkill for my needs, so I am still using Homesite and DreamWeaver and
have no complaints. Even though I am in my late sixties I still learn new
things everyday and can certainly can learn new tricks like CF Builder if it
serves my needs
I spent 4 hours today playing with CF Builder and then a few minutes
uninstalling it.
Now here is my humble opinion.
I am certainly not bagging on Adobe's CF Builder Team, but why couldn't they
base their improvements on Homesite?
I don't care about the pricing issues everyone is so up in arms about and I
certainly don't think that all this is as big a deal as it has blossomed
into.
If you like it buy it, and vice versa if you don't, but all these whiney
posts sure clutter up this normally great forum.

Terry 





~|
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CFPDFform

[Chad Gray]

I posted yesterday about using CFPDFForm and iText, but it kind of got pushed 
to the side with all the CFBuilder chat.
 
My question now is what is the best practice when using CFPDFForm to create a 
PDF?
 
If I specify a destination the PDF is created and the form data is there, but 
it appears the PDF is not flattened.  If I open the PDF in Acrobat make no 
changes and try to close the document Acrobat asks if I want to save it.  It is 
like the PDF made by CFPDFForm is not flattened or complete.
 
I had to run  after my CFPDFForm code to get iText to 
play well with the PDF.
 
Is it best practice to use CFPDF to flatten a PDF made by CFPDFForm?  It really 
slows down the page run time if I add it.
 
Thanks,
Cha

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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Eric Cobb]

Yes!  Andy agreed with me!  I'm going to print this out and frame it!   ;-)

thanks,

eric cobb
ecar technologies, llc
http://www.cfgears.com



Andy Matthews wrote:
> As much as it kills me to say that Eric is right, and it does, I think he's
> right. A developer in another language isn't gonna pay MORE for something
> they don't need, and probably wouldn't use.
>
> ;)
>
>
> andy 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:57 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!
>
>
> Charlie Griefer wrote:
> "Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
> uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
> licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
> developers, Java developers, etc."
>
> I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder
> 4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4 (Standard
> Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing PHP/Flex
> developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to pay $299 to
> get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50 less and just
> get the IDE they need? 
>
> thanks,
>
> eric cobb
> ecar technologies, llc
> http://www.cfgears.com
>
>   
>


~|
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Re: CF9 Running Deleted Tasks and Running Active tasks twice

[David]

Do you have them set up in a separate instance of CF?

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Matt G  wrote:
>
> I have several scheduled tasks that were deleted via the admin but they are 
> still running.  Don't show up in the admin, but still run.
>
> I have tried to programmatically delete them also.  Have looked in 
> neo-cron.xml and they don't exist in there either.
>
> As well, active jobs run twice.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> 

~|
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RE: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Andy Matthews]

As much as it kills me to say that Eric is right, and it does, I think he's
right. A developer in another language isn't gonna pay MORE for something
they don't need, and probably wouldn't use.

;)


andy 

-Original Message-
From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:57 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!


Charlie Griefer wrote:
"Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
developers, Java developers, etc."

I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder
4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4 (Standard
Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing PHP/Flex
developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to pay $299 to
get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50 less and just
get the IDE they need? 

thanks,

eric cobb
ecar technologies, llc
http://www.cfgears.com



Charlie Griefer wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey
wrote:
>
>   
>>> The cost has to do with Adobe being a publicly traded company 
>>> needing to generate revenue and hopefully post a profit.  The cost 
>>> would therefore
>>>   
>> more
>> 
>>> likely be based on the amount of effort (time/money) involved in
>>>   
>> developing
>> 
>>> (research, planning, developing, testing, marketing) the product.
>>>   
>> A lot of us hoped they would see that selling it a lower price point 
>> would help to increase the uptake of the language as a whole and thus 
>> ultimately sell more server licenses. For a large company like Adobe, 
>> profit is what the company makes as a whole, not what one product alone
brings in.
>> Microsoft learned this a long time ago and has used free and 
>> low-priced items to increase their revenue in other areas, and it's 
>> certainly a large reason for their success.
>>
>> 
>
> Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase 
> the uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more 
> server licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to 
> PHP developers, Java developers, etc.  Everyone who uses Flex but 
> doesn't use CF on the server side.
>
> I'm not exactly sure that selling it at a lower price point would have 
> the same effect.  It'd appeal to those of us who currently use
ColdFusion...
> we'd conceivably be able to buy the product for $199 instead of $299.
Ok...
> but I don't see where that would necessarily increase the uptake of 
> the language as a whole.
>
>   
>> I also think their move to bundle CFBuilder with FlashBuilder -is-
>> 
>>> encouraging developers.  It's encouraging me to make the foray into 
>>> Flex, which is something that I've wanted to do for a while now.
>>>   
>> Not if the price discourages me from even buying the product in the 
>> first place.
>>
>> 
>
> But you're already a ColdFusion developer.  If I wanted to buy 
> FlexBuilder 3 last year, I'd have paid $299 (i think... it was 
> certainly in that neighborhood).  So we know that Flex developers are 
> willing to pay that amount.  They're going to pay the same thing this 
> year, and get ColdFusion Builder.  Adobe is pretty much giving it away 
> to the Flex community in hopes of doing what you say... increase the
uptake of the language as a whole.
>
> We CF folk.. we pay a little bit more than the $199 we hoped it would 
> be, and get FlashBuilder.  So not only is Adobe conceivably 
> introducing CF to other developers, but it's conceivably introducing
Flex/FlashBuilder to us.
>
> I'm sorry that people think $300 is too expensive.  I know that
"expensive"
> is a subjective term, and while some people can whip out their credit 
> cards and order a copy without a second thought, some of us will have 
> to save up for it.  But as has been pointed out... if you use the 
> product for a year (and it really shouldn't even take a year), how 
> much time are you going to save... how much more productive could you
possibly be?
>
> Maybe the answer is, "not enough".  In which case... there are 
> alternatives (CFEclipse and others).  For me, I think it'd be enough 
> (I'm currently using TextMate on Mac as my IDE... so I don't really 
> have a horse in this race, so to speak).  I've used the beta of 
> CFBuilder tho, and I can see where it'd save me time.  I run multiple CF8
and CF9 instances on my dev machine.
>  Generally one at a time... not having to jump out of the IDE, into 
> terminal, stop one service, start the next, back to the IDE... instead 
> I can just open up the servers pane in CFBuilder, stop one service, 
> start the other.  Code insight, extensible via writing extensions in 
> CF (-not- Java)... I think I'd make my $300 back in under a year, and 
> probably end the year being up a few buck

Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Eric Cobb]

Charlie Griefer wrote:
"Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
developers, Java developers, etc."

I have to say that I don't agree with that last statement.  FlashBuilder 
4 (Standard Edition) with CFBuilder costs $299, and FlashBuilder 4 
(Standard Edition) without CFBuilder costs $249.  So for an existing 
PHP/Flex developer who has no use for CF, do you think they're going to 
pay $299 to get an extra IDE for a language they don't use, or spend $50 
less and just get the IDE they need? 

thanks,

eric cobb
ecar technologies, llc
http://www.cfgears.com



Charlie Griefer wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey 
> wrote:
>
>   
>>> The cost has to do with Adobe being a publicly traded company needing to
>>> generate revenue and hopefully post a profit.  The cost would therefore
>>>   
>> more
>> 
>>> likely be based on the amount of effort (time/money) involved in
>>>   
>> developing
>> 
>>> (research, planning, developing, testing, marketing) the product.
>>>   
>> A lot of us hoped they would see that selling it a lower price point would
>> help to increase the uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately
>> sell more server licenses. For a large company like Adobe, profit is what
>> the company makes as a whole, not what one product alone brings in.
>> Microsoft learned this a long time ago and has used free and low-priced
>> items to increase their revenue in other areas, and it's certainly a large
>> reason for their success.
>>
>> 
>
> Bundling it with FlashBuilder may be their way of trying to increase the
> uptake of the language as a whole and thus ultimately sell more server
> licenses.  By doing this, they're potentially introducing CF to PHP
> developers, Java developers, etc.  Everyone who uses Flex but doesn't use CF
> on the server side.
>
> I'm not exactly sure that selling it at a lower price point would have the
> same effect.  It'd appeal to those of us who currently use ColdFusion...
> we'd conceivably be able to buy the product for $199 instead of $299.  Ok...
> but I don't see where that would necessarily increase the uptake of the
> language as a whole.
>
>   
>> I also think their move to bundle CFBuilder with FlashBuilder -is-
>> 
>>> encouraging developers.  It's encouraging me to make the foray into Flex,
>>> which is something that I've wanted to do for a while now.
>>>   
>> Not if the price discourages me from even buying the product in the first
>> place.
>>
>> 
>
> But you're already a ColdFusion developer.  If I wanted to buy FlexBuilder 3
> last year, I'd have paid $299 (i think... it was certainly in that
> neighborhood).  So we know that Flex developers are willing to pay that
> amount.  They're going to pay the same thing this year, and get ColdFusion
> Builder.  Adobe is pretty much giving it away to the Flex community in hopes
> of doing what you say... increase the uptake of the language as a whole.
>
> We CF folk.. we pay a little bit more than the $199 we hoped it would be,
> and get FlashBuilder.  So not only is Adobe conceivably introducing CF to
> other developers, but it's conceivably introducing Flex/FlashBuilder to us.
>
> I'm sorry that people think $300 is too expensive.  I know that "expensive"
> is a subjective term, and while some people can whip out their credit cards
> and order a copy without a second thought, some of us will have to save up
> for it.  But as has been pointed out... if you use the product for a year
> (and it really shouldn't even take a year), how much time are you going to
> save... how much more productive could you possibly be?
>
> Maybe the answer is, "not enough".  In which case... there are alternatives
> (CFEclipse and others).  For me, I think it'd be enough (I'm currently using
> TextMate on Mac as my IDE... so I don't really have a horse in this race, so
> to speak).  I've used the beta of CFBuilder tho, and I can see where it'd
> save me time.  I run multiple CF8 and CF9 instances on my dev machine.
>  Generally one at a time... not having to jump out of the IDE, into
> terminal, stop one service, start the next, back to the IDE... instead I can
> just open up the servers pane in CFBuilder, stop one service, start the
> other.  Code insight, extensible via writing extensions in CF (-not-
> Java)... I think I'd make my $300 back in under a year, and probably end the
> year being up a few bucks.
>
> I get that it's not going to be for everybody.  It's not going to work for
> everybody.  I just wish folks could be more pragmatic about it and say,
> "yeah, it doesn't work for me... but I can see where they're going with it".
>
> Charlie
>
>
>   


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Re: session variables

[daniel kessler]

> Session data in ColdFusion is tied to unique combinations of user, 
> browser and domain.  And the http and https versions of your website 
> are 
> viewed as two different domains.  This is due to the normal behavior 
> of 
> ColdFusion using cookies to pass the tokens that lets it know with 
> session data goes with what http requests.


so how do I get rid of these variables?  I did a page full of structDeletes and 
that didn't help.  Do I need to restart the server?  




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RE: Does not contain dilema

[Orlini, Robert]

Than you Paul and Steven. 

I looked over both your suggestions and it worked well for me. I also extended 
my coding knowledge a bit. I like this forum!

RO
HWW

-Original Message-
From: "Paul Alkema" 
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:12pm
To: "cf-talk" 
Subject: RE: Does not contain dilema


First off, as a general rule I would put the variable first, then the
string. So you have cfif "united States" contains country. I would try cfif
country contains "united states".

Secondly..

You need to var your variables.

If country is a form variable refer to it as form.country... not just
country. This could really mess you up down the road, plus it's just a bad
practice.


Some something like...


Also, what I do in instances where I'm using multiple IF arguments and I'm
trying to find which one is causing my IF statement to fail, is I remove the
"
#"United States" Contains Country# and #"K-12" does not contain intype# and
#(State is "IL") or (State is "IA")#



Regards,
Paul Alkema
http://www.alkemadesigns.com

-Original Message-
From: Orlini, Robert [mailto:rorl...@hwwilson.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:51 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Does not contain dilema


I have a form with a field call "intype" which I need to filter and NOT send
an email if the form does contain a certain list of states, but does not
contain the value "k-12" for intype.

The cfif I have that does not seem to work is:

.

I've tried, but it still sends the email which I don't want:



Any easier way to do this please?

Thanks.

RO
HWW






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Re: ColdFusion Builder Released!

[Aaron Neff]

>The subject says it all.

First, CF9 EULA allows "the right to install and use the Software as 
Development Software for internal development, testing and staging".

Now, CB includes FB.

Awesome!! What's next!? =D

-Aaron Neff 

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Re: good forums

[Arsalan Tariq Keen]

Well...

for learning ExtJS you can use the book 'Learning ExtJS' by Steve Cutter 
Blades. It is very helpful for beginning to intermediate levels. Obviously 
for advance levels you always have the ExtJS API Docs and TH FORUM 

If you want to be up and running with the strawberry toppings of ExtJS in 
your coldfusion web apps, I would suggest you to use ColdExt by Justin 
Carter. Its available on the internet and it allows you to use coldfusion 
tags for giving your apps the ExtJS UI... its cool... its great rather! But 
I wonder why Justin is not releasing a new version of ColExt :) ... I am 
eagerly waiting though ;)

Regards,
Arsalan

--
From: "Richard White" 
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:11 PM
To: "cf-talk" 
Subject: good forums

>
> hi,
>
> i have used this forum whilst learning coldfusion and the community is 
> excellent. I have always had answers to my questions within minutes and 
> has really helped.
>
> I am currently very new to extjs and attempting to learn it from scratch. 
> Unfortunately there are many questions I have but the forums on 
> www.extjs.com/forum/ dont appear to be as helpful. I dont get replies to 
> answers very often and when i do the answers are very confusing.
>
> Does anyone know of any good forums for learning extjs
>
> thanks
>
> 

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