Re: [Emc-users] Why are there different sizes of centre drills?

[marcus . bowman]

On 2024-05-11 03:32, andy pugh wrote:
That's it. really. Why? A large-diameter one with a small drill point 
could
make all the sizes. as far as I am aware the drilled hole is 
irrelevant. I

suppose it might have mattered as a reservoir for the white lead in the
days of solid centres.


Interesting question!
The pilot (parallel) drill creates a hole for the very tip of the mating 
centre. If the drill had to cut the exact shape of the conical tip of 
the female hole, it would struggle to have proper cutting edges and 
still make the true cone.
You are right that the conical end on the body of a large centre drill 
(ignoring the parallel tip) could cut all sizes of cone. But there might 
be some reasons for the different sizes:


1. very small centres would enter the parallel drilled hole, but miss 
the conical part. I have just been trying to clean some small center 
holes in a clockmaking tool designed to support the ends of small 
diameter clock shaft pivots which run between two female centres. Those 
pivots would completely miss the conical part of the female hole which 
had anything but the smallest parallel section at the end.


2. for male centres which will take a decent load, the end needs to bear 
inside a large (deep) female hole, so a large drill can be used here, 
especially when pushing drilling feeds and speeds.  The flip-side of 
that is that allowing the body of the centre drill to set the final 
diameter provides a small amount of parallel recess at the outer end of 
the centre, which will foul a centre and hold it off the female cone. 
Centre drills do exist to create 'protected' centres with a larger 
parallel recess just at the entry to the female cone. Those drills have 
a short stepped-out section of cutting edge of larger diameter than the 
largest end of the female cone.


3. In pre-CNC days, the best way to set the size of a hole would be to 
have a drill of the correct diameter(s) mounted in a turret with stops. 
The operator then would not need to think, but could just pull the 
lever. Aside from the problem in (1), you could, of course, set the stop 
to make a large drill create a small diameter centre.  Which makes CNC 
an obvious advantage, of course.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[marcus . bowman]

As I recall, someone on this list posted a note or a link about how to 
create a fusee for a clock (essentially a tapered spiral, running from 
large diameter to smaller diameter while spiralling - rather like a 
tapered woodscrew thread). Is a constant-diameter version of that what 
you had in mind?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAAajypWQyw

Sadly, I can't remember who contributed that note on this list. I do 
think there may be a routine somewhere in the LinuxCNC electronic 
resources.


Marcus



On 2024-04-10 06:55, John Dammeyer wrote:

A friend and I have been discussing exactly how to write the G-Code to
create a spiral scroll.

His rotary table 90:1 reduction with a 1600 micro-step motor could be 
set up
to move N steps for each step of the X axis to create the spiral.  But 
that

approach seems clumsy.

Say I wanted to cut a scroll with a 6mm pitch using a 3mm cutter.



Without using G2 or G3 it's really just a triangle isn't it?  Move 
rotary

table distance A and move X axis distance A'.  Do it in small enough
increments and you get a spiral.  But I feel like I'm missing something
really simple.



Suggestions?

Thanks

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Axis direction

[marcus . bowman]

John,

Leaving aside right or left hand rules etc, leaning your head towards 
your left shoulder shows that the relationship between the spindle and 
the carriage is the same as on a vertical mill.
To bring the spindle closer to the carriage is a move in the -Z 
direction.
If the argument is about the tool position, with the work in the chuck, 
tilt your head to the right and you now have the tool on the right and 
the work on the left, like a mill with the tool above (on the right) and 
work in the chuck below (on the left0. Now the movement of the tool 
towards the work is still -Z.


Marcus


On 2024-02-05 18:01, John Dammeyer wrote:

There's been an interesting discussion on the Unimat users list about
axis direction.  As usual someone can always find something on the web
that supports their opinion.
For example this one:
https://digit-chain.com/names-of-axes-in-cnc-machine/

However I disagree that movement towards the rotating axis, be it the
chuck on a lathe or the spinning cutter in a mill spindle,  is a Z+
direction.  Doesn't even seem intuitive to me either.

Now it's true that you can set the Z=0.00 position anywhere in the
G54... spaces depending on what you touch off on.  And then a movement
toward the spindle could be positive.  But in an G53 machine
coordinate space isn't a Z- direction towards the spinning tool or
part?

That's the way I have my LCNC system and MACH system set up.  Even my
ELS is negative towards the lathe chuck.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] Test

[marcus . bowman]

On 2024-02-03 16:30, andy pugh wrote:

Is this thing on? I have nothing since the 18th of January, and
neither does the archive at Sourceforge.


Message received here OK. Nothing else noted during the period since 
18th January, so I assumed everyone was happy and no-one had problems, 
or was too busy to chat.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: novel 3+ n axes

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-11-23 21:18, Chris Albertson wrote:

Yes, a magnet and a steel disk is the simplest possible design.  If
you don’t need indexing.  Nothing would move.  The disk could slide
over the magnet and then when energized the sliding would stop.

The slop issue is normally solved by always rotating in one direction
so maybe it could be controlled?

I can’t believe a 1/2 degree error is acceptable.  On a 100mm radius,
a 0.5 degree error amounts to mislocating the hole by almost 1mm.

My cheap made-in-India rotary table is way better than 0.5 degrees 
error.




My rotary table was not expensive, but it has an adjustment on the depth 
of engagement of the worm, to allow backlash to be reduced.

I thought that was a fairly common arrangement.

Marcus





On Nov 23, 2023, at 12:11 PM, Ryan McIntosh  wrote:

If you are going to clamp a metal disc with anything, use an
electromagnet...  But if it's a worm drive with that much slop, I 
guarantee
there's some improvement to be found by controlling the thrust 
movement of
the pinion gear.  Inserting a shim (could be punched out of an old set 
of

feeler guages) under the gear where it shoulders up to the case can
probably reduce the backlash by a significant amount.

*Ryan McIntosh*
E4F Designs
(204)770-3682
r...@pebkac.ca


On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 1:25 PM Chris Albertson 


wrote:




On Nov 22, 2023, at 1:06 PM, gene heskett  
wrote:


I'd have to agree Andy.  I need to design a disk brake for my A axis 
as
there's half a degree of slop in the worm drive which if it gets to 
the

motor will be held, but the slop in the worm makes for sloppy looking
holes, but the activation method is still in my head. Even that is 
only
important when drilling a hole for the handle. I'll come up with 
something.


Would a simple disk brake work?  I think it might clamp the part any 
place
within that 1/2 degree of slop range.   Ideally, you would have an 
index
plate and some way to place a pin in a hole to lock the table.  But 
you
could only have a few holes and not enough holes for one at every 
place you

might want to stop.

What if the disk had “V” slots cut in the edge.  Like a very large US
Quarter Dollar, but with maybe 360 grooves.  Then you could wedge a 
shape
(like a tiny axe head?) into the slot and force the disk to stop on 
an even
degree.  You could use more than one wedge, space them around the 
disk.


A wedge would need a lot less clamp force than a brake disk pad 
because it

is a mechanical lock almost like an index pin

If you still want a “disk brake” why not use an actual disk brake 
from a
bicycle?  They are about the right size, have huge holding power, and 
don’t
cost all that much.   The ones you would want to use are hydraulic so 
the
electric actuator could be a couple feet from the rotating table.   
They
still make cheaper ones that use cable but avoid those, they are too 
hard

to adjust.

Or maybe both,  Use the slot and wedge to aligh the table to the 
nearest
degree and then clamp it with a hydraulic disk brake.  Cost is under 
$100.





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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.9 is Released

[marcus . bowman]

The LinuxCNC 2.9 release is much appreciated.
Your ongoing sustained efforts have involved sacrificing some of your 
precious time and considerable talents.

So a Great Big Thank You for that.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-08-04 17:44, John Dammeyer wrote:

I too have a BBB which has been sitting in its box for a very long time, 
partly because the Xylotex boards had disappeared.

Its a shame, and I'd like to use the board on my CNC router.
I understood some of the reasons for the MachineKit fork, but always 
thought it was unfortunate that there had been a fork in the first 
place.
I really would prefer to use LinuxCNC on the BBB, but would need an 
idiot's guide to installation.


I have just managed to buy an 8Gb Pi 4 and had hoped to run LinuxCNC 
into my 7i96S for my small CNC lathe.
I would be disappointed if LinuxCNC on the Pi is not currently being 
supported.


Marcus



I'm curious.  I have one of the original Xylotex boards.  The link to
this web site implies there's a newer version along with a link to 4GB
BeagleBone Image for MachineKit which I have read hasn't been
supported for years.
http://xylotex.netfirms.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40_id=169

My BBBs (3 of them) are all sitting in a box unused.  This includes
things like LCD displays, CAN bus capes etc.   I had thought about
adding the BBB with CNC to my Gingery Lathe which currently is
controlled by my Electronic Lead Screw product.

What is the status in general with the BBB and MachineKit or LinuxCNC.
  Should I just put my stuff on EBAY?

I ask because I also have a 1GB Pi4 with a MESA 7i92H as a desktop
play toy.   I think the 1GB is a bit small for LinuxCNC but so far it
has worked.  I'm not sure whether support for LinuxCNC on the PI4 has
also gone by the wayside?

So if someone had a BBB and a cape, installs a version of LinuxCNC
(MachineKit) do they run into what appears to happen often now with
trying to upgrade and unknown web links?
John



-Original Message-
From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: August 3, 2023 1:20 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 17:51, Thomas J Powderly  
wrote:


> Is there an explanation of gpiod?

It's a replacement for the sysfs interface for gpio (which hal_pi_gpio
uses, for example).

There is an article about it here:
https://lloydrochester.com/post/hardware/libgpiod-intro-rpi/

I have a working-but-slow demo here:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/15138feb4a1a811a7b61a6605
55d78b85bdcf86c

(later commits in that branch are not working at all at the moment)

to use the BBB output from gpioinfo above:

loadrr hal_gpio inputs=P8_25,P8_24  outputs=P8_10,P811

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
� George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-07-04 23:21, Sam Sokolik wrote:

Lol - then I guess I read too far into it..  I have run 4th axis rotary
motion just fine..




The problem I have is that because 4th axis is rotary motion on my 
setup, the way the angular rotation speed is handled means the rotary 
axis rotates at a very slow speed (a fraction of what the G1 linear 
speed would be). The rotary axis is a rotary table driven by a stepper. 
The table is usually mounted on its side so that I can engrave on the 
circular face of a cylinder.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-06-25 10:33, andrew beck wrote:

Adapter plate sounds easiest to me



+1 for an adapter plate; its much safer and also more versatile.
Have you thought of mounting the encoder parallel to the stepper, and 
using a small pulley and belt between the shafts. That might give you 
more mounting options.


Another option would be if the motor have long bolts running through 
from front to back, those could be extended to hold an adapter plate.


Or could the encoder be driven off the front of the motor, using the 
existing belt (if your setup uses one).


Marcus






On Sun, 25 Jun 2023, 21:01 andy pugh,  wrote:


On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 04:31, John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two
holes
> and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?

I have done it in-situ, but there really isn't all that much metal in
there.

I think pulling the back cover off (leaving the rotor in place) and
choosing your mounting point carefully would probably be best.

Or, as Gene says, use the existing holes, very short screws, and an
adaptor plate.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Sewing Machine Stiffness

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-05-21 03:43, Chris Albertson wrote:


Even 3D-printed PLA plastic can be strong enough.  I have a 3D-printed
CNC conversion of a harbor freight milling machine.  Normally they use
metal parts for the motor mounts and such but PLA can be just as rigid
if you make the parts thicker.



Yes; I have printed parts for several small machines for manually 
cutting tube, and I have printed and used some large fixtures which hold 
parts for milling, all quite successful. The key lies in the design, 
taking account of the properties of the printed material. So I guess its 
the same with epoxy/fibre. I have used glassfibre and epoxy for repairs, 
but hadn't thought to use it for structural purposes on a new part, so I 
must try that. Thanks for the suggestion.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Sewing Machine Stiffness

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-05-20 20:12, Chris Albertson wrote:
If you are going to the trouble of filling a frame with epoxy then two 
things…


1) Why bother with the frame, just print a plastic mold and fill that.
with epoxy.   Then it will be the exact size and shape you need.



Interesting idea, which makes a lot of sense.
So you would end up with a 'solid' epoxy/glass mix. What would its 
performance be like compared to a heavy dense epoxy/stone mix?


Marcus




2) Don’t use epoxy as it is not very stiff,  Mix the epoxy with glass
fiber such that the fiber-to-epoxy ratio is as high as you can
possibly make it.   You don’t need expensive carbon fiber as you don’t
care about weight.   You want as much glass in the mix as possible.
The usual way is to use woven glass, wet it with epoxy then use
pressure from clamps or a vacuum pump to compress the part and push
out as much epoxy as possible.  But you can also mix chopped fiber
with the liquid resin and make a paste.

This is actually very low-tech and can be done with simple hand tools
like paintbrushes and scissors.

The problem is the same as with any new design, you have to make some
prototypes and measure them and likey redesign them a few times.  This
is why people usually copy existing proven designs.




On May 20, 2023, at 11:28 AM, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users 
 wrote:


You'd need to get a frame casting, set up indicators, then do some 
pushing, twisting, and leaning on it to see how much it moves.


What could stiffen it is filling all its internal space with epoxy. 
The upper casting from one of these

https://china-highly.en.made-in-china.com/product/gSHxMeWyblRA/China-Hl-246-Long-Arm-Compound-Feeding-Super-Heavy-Sewing-Machine.html
could do the job since it bolts on from above it could be mounted over 
any XY base you can build.


Just might be workable for a wood router for sign carving. Z travel 
would be limited to whatever vertical slide you mount, and if you 
space the arm up higher.


I'd expect that the really long ones with arms around 30 inches, would 
be pretty well vibration damped in order to handle high speed sewing 
in heavy materials like canvas. Sewing is mostly a short vertical 
motion. I'd assume the main area of concern for adapting a long arm 
sewing machine to routing would be resistance to bending sideways and 
twisting around the long axis of the arm.




On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:00:22 AM MDT, Thomas J Powderly 
 wrote:


I saw an overarm router recently

and wondered if a sewing machine frame was stiff.

Compared to a desktop gantry mill.


I imagined a makita router mounted on the over arm

minimal Z travel ( 150mm at most)


I can find castings for industrial machines pretty cheap in qty 1

What i see are C frames, single casting, with base plate as long as 
over

arm.


Any thoughts?

( I don't have a sewing machine to lean on ;-)


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Re: [Emc-users] Linuxcnc HAL and AI

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-02-02 17:25, Roland Jollivet wrote:
Since most ?? of us have some difficulty with configuring the HAL 
script, I

thought maybe ChatGPT could help.


Excellent thought, Roland. But to what extent can ChatGPT help? I have 
just been reading that, at the moment, it essentially fetches content 
from a 2021 snapshot of the internet.
So I am not clear whether the answer it has given has been lifted from a 
human-generated example, or whether it can go much further in devising 
an answer without, as you say, someone giving it a further description 
of the parameters/constraints and the way in which HAL programming is 
done (rules, I guess).
This is an interesting question, though; and I have also been reading 
about the good success in having AI systems do coding.
I recall the early code-generating systems which appeared in the early 
1980s, which have made great strides since then, so it makes sense that 
AI systems like ChatGPT might make the benefits available to a much 
wider user base, like LinuxCNC users.


Marcus






So this is obviously very generic, but one can easily 'add' new
parameters/constraints to the query. By the way, I have no clue if it 
is

correct or not.

Maybe someone could try troubleshooting their existing script by 
pasting it

into AI and ask to check it.

Another option is for a developer to write a web page interface using 
the

AI API to help users generate HAL scripts.
_

AI  Q: write a HAL script for Linuxcnc using steppers and a 7i92 
interface

card

AI  A: Here is an example of a HAL script for LinuxCNC using stepper 
motors

and a 7i92 interface card:

# Load the 7i92 driver
loadusr -W hal_7i92 -i0

# Declare the step and direction pins for each axis
setp stepgen.0.step_pinhalui.0.axis.0.step
setp stepgen.0.dir_pin halui.0.axis.0.dir
setp stepgen.0.enable_pin  halui.0.axis.0.enable

setp stepgen.1.step_pinhalui.0.axis.1.step
setp stepgen.1.dir_pin halui.0.axis.1.dir
setp stepgen.1.enable_pin  halui.0.axis.1.enable

# Set the maximum frequency for each axis
setp stepgen.0.maxvel  1000
setp stepgen.1.maxvel  1000

# Connect stepgen outputs to 7i92 step and direction pins
net step0-out stepgen.0.step=> 7i92.0.step-0-out
net dir0-out stepgen.0.dir  => 7i92.0.dir-0-out

net step1-out stepgen.1.step=> 7i92.0.step-1-out
net dir1-out stepgen.1.dir  => 7i92.0.dir-1-out

# Enable the stepper motors
setp halui.0.axis.0.enable 1
setp halui.0.axis.1.enable 1

This script assumes that you have already set up the hardware 
connections
between your 7i92 card and stepper motors, and configured the 7i92 for 
use

with LinuxCNC. Note that you may need to modify the pin assignments and
other parameters based on your specific setup.

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Re: [Emc-users] Happy new year and also checking if the list is alive

[marcus . bowman]

Happy New Year to you, Leonardo, and to everyone else on the list.
Like you, I haven't seen much activity so I assumed everyone was either 
eating or had escaped to the workshop.
I had regular messages up until 23rd December, then one on 28th December 
but no activity after that until your email.


Marcus


On 2023-01-03 15:24, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

Hi everybody!

First of all happy new year to all :)

I'm wondering if there's low activity or if there's a problem with the 
list

or my subscription because it's been several days without messages and
seems strange.

Thank you and stay well!

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Re: [Emc-users] my camera works this morning - came twice

[marcus . bowman]

Gene wrote:


This msg is cc'd to the user list, did you get 2 copies? The first
attempt to re-edit and re-send this was clipped off in the middle of
the sourceforge word above.




Cheers, Gene Heskett.


Yes; I got that message twice. Gene.

Regards,
Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[marcus . bowman]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 at 15:33, John Figie  wrote:

Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original. I 
could
use the E head, (shaper) on my bridgeport and a rotary table. Do you 
think

this is a good idea?




At first glance, seeing the rounded inner end to the splines, I thought 
they had been cut with a vee rotary cutter (like a pointed engraving 
cutter). That's the way I would cut them, with the caveat that I don't 
think my cutters would like the hard material.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] CAM software

[marcus . bowman]

On 2022-10-21 18:54, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users wrote:


For CAM I use Cut2D+ from Vectric.  Very good, very cheap.


Having come from Inventor, I use the free version of Fusion 360, and 
find the interface suits me (most of the time). I agree that any CAD 
package requires lots of learning time.

I go from 3D to GCode in one of two ways (and sometimes mix them):
1. Scripting from scratch, or more usually, stringing together some 
parameterized routines I have on disk.
2. Using Vectric VCarve Pro, although this is mostly for 2.5D. I used to 
use Cut2D, and agree it is good value. But I upgraded. That was some 
years ago, when there was no Post Processor for LinuxCNC, so I created 
my own.


The problem with Fusion 3690 CAD_to_CAM is the additional cost: 1000GBP 
per year. Way too much to justify for what I do. I would pay the 300GBP 
for Fusion, but I'm simply not willing to pay for the add-ons. Pity.
In practice, a package like VCarve Pro costs around 300GBP per year if 
you take the upgrades, which I do.
I had a friend who bought Vectric Aspire, and used it for his router. 
Nice package, but very expensive.


Marcus




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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

[marcus . bowman]

Using LinuxCNC, I have a set of self-written wizards/demons in a folder.
Start LinuxCNC; load the demon I need; use GEDIT to set the user values 
of, say, Xwidth, Ybreadth, tool diameter.

Reload in LinuxCNC and run it.
Not fully conversational, but reasonably quick and convenient. There is 
no additional screen or separate controls for the demons. They are just 
individual programs that do specific operations.


If demons are stored by name in the subroutine folder, it is relatively 
straightforward to load a short skeleton program and add CALLs to a 
sequence of named subroutines which are then pulled in and used 
automatically. To be honest, I seldom use that method because, being 
lazy, it's almost as easy to just load the Demons I need individually, 
in the sequence I need, to do a job.


So; while I would love a Tormach, the cost here is huge (40K GBP), and 
my cheap and cheerful method works pretty well most of the time.
I also 'enjoy' programming, which is where LinuxCNC scores against Mach 
because of the availability of proper structures like IF and WHEN and 
named variables, etc. I have always had a fully licenced Mach3, but much 
prefer the programming capabilities of LinuxCNC which I have used 
exclusively for some years now.
Would a Tormach with PathPilot allow me to drop into programming mode 
easily?


Marcus


  On 2022-09-07 23:37, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
All of the above! There is a conversational wizard screen that mostly 
does
what you want. For my work I would probably model it in CAD since 
facing

would be only a tiny part of the ultimate machining. As others have
suggested, try it yourself on Tormach Hub.

The only Tormach conversational stuff that I use often is thread 
milling.

Works a treat!



-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: September 7, 2022 6:29 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 


Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

Awesome.  A Tormach user!

OK.  Say I have an aluminum plate casting that is 3"x7"x about 0.8".  I 
can
clamp it in the vise and set it so about 0.25" is above the edge of the 
vise

and it's pretty close to parallel with the XY plane.
I want to remove about 0.1" to make it flat.  To remove the sand 
casting

imperfections.  My shell mill with 4 carbide cutters is 2" in diameter.

So do you have the equivalent of a MACH3 wizard?
Or do you manually write G-Code?
Or first model it in CAD and then use CAM software to create the 
G-Code?


Thanks
John




-Original Message-
From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
Sent: September-07-22 2:42 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

I have a real Tormach and frequently use the hub to test hand coded
programs prior to running things on a real machine. No charge, much
safer and crashes never break a tool!

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson 
Sent: September 7, 2022 3:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

>
> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the
> vise or clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached
> photo or must one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
>
> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one
> attached that shows how to do this?
>


Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This
lets you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part
and see how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I
own a real PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online
simulation I can move the code to my milling machine.

I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for
students taking PathPilot classes.

The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but
the mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you
to program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time
safer

The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller


--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Printer ports are not dead yet! (linuxcnc closing the servo loop with $10 pci card)

[marcus . bowman]

Sam,

Thanks for posting that link. The video gives a really good explanation 
which is much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to do that.


Regards,

Marcus


On 2022-09-01 00:39, Sam Sokolik wrote:

some mansplaining..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWXCAxUzXK0

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 4:40 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:


The spindle motor is a brushed dc.  I am planning on using another amc
drive to drive it...

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:33 PM  
wrote:



On 2022-08-23 19:29, Sam Sokolik wrote:
> Little Emco lathe with some pittman servos...   Amc drive that takes
> PWM+Dir.
>

Looks pretty smooth to me.
What Pittman servos are those?
What will you do with the spindle drive motor? Servo?

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Printer ports are not dead yet! (linuxcnc closing the servo loop with $10 pci card)

[marcus . bowman]

On 2022-08-23 19:29, Sam Sokolik wrote:

Little Emco lathe with some pittman servos...   Amc drive that takes
PWM+Dir.



Looks pretty smooth to me.
What Pittman servos are those?
What will you do with the spindle drive motor? Servo?

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Custom m codes

[marcus . bowman]

Andrew,

Thanks for a particularly good explanation of what you did. All useful 
knowledge.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Project Progress

[Marcus Bowman]

On 4 Nov 2021, at 21:46, andy pugh wrote:

> 
> Or possibly:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/72BgoRiKeGmQqDHs9

I removed the ACME screws when I converted my mill. I replaced them with 
ballscrews. The nuts are platform-style, rather than cylindrical.
https://tech.thk.com/en/products/pdfs/en_a15_228.pdf
I turned a bit of square bar to produce a spigot rather like the top of the nut 
in that second photo, but with the top plate and spigot bolted to the complete 
ball nut. I had to mill a groove on the underside of the X table to clear the 
top of the nut --- and I would caution you not to do that, as the casting will 
probably change shape and bow the table. I had to have mine reground. The other 
axes had enough clearance, and the general method works fine.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Project Progress

[Marcus Bowman]

John,

I always use single flute router-style cutters (Accupro, from MSC Industrial  
at www.mscdirect.co.uk) which are specifically designed for machining aluminium 
and are highly polished so the aluminium will not stick to the flutes. These 
are jolly expensive cutters, and other makes are available, etc. I would not 
use an 'ordinary' endmill on aluminium (unless you keep your jar of caustic 
soda handy to dissolve the welded-on chips in the flutes).I would use a 10 or 
12mm cutter at 2000-3000 rpm, so the tooth peripheral linear speed is a bit 
faster than your speeds. I am not using flood coolant, for the same reasons as 
you, but do use neat cutting oil around the area being cut. Running at the same 
feedrate as you, I would probably take a cut of 50 to 100% of what you are 
taking, for roughing, although bear n mind that is a tooth loading of twice 
what you are using (1 tooth versus 2). Linear speed around the same as you, at 
120 - 200mm/min. All cuts are climb cuts, in aluminium.

Marcus

On 4 Nov 2021, at 06:34, John Dammeyer wrote:

> I used the big 1/2" one for the large pocket and the smaller 5mm one for the 
> smaller pocket and profile.  The surface finish, given my crappy cast 
> aluminium, was really nice.
> 
> My mill does have a coolant pump but I don't know if I use the mill often 
> enough to fill the reservoir with coolant that then goes mouldy and stinky.  
> So I'm working on a compressed air mist coolant system.  But maybe having a 
> secondary reservoir that pumps out the main one and adds an aquarium bubbler 
> would work for the flood system.  So in the last 12 years I've never used 
> coolant.
> 
> John
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: November-03-21 10:52 PM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Project Progress
>> 
>> What cutters are you using?
>> 
>> As a sideline here in New Zealand I buy and sell tooling so I'm always
>> testing the limits.
>> 
>> And can probably advise a bit
>> 
>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021, 11:29 John Dammeyer,  wrote:
>> 
>>> I've been using LCNC quite a bit (for me).   In the photo there are two
>>> steel spring collars that were entirely done with the mill.  I could have
>>> left them as large disks with just a stepped hole and the set screw holes
>>> but what's the fun in that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/TrialFitOnSpindleCover-1.jpg
>>> 
>>> The spindle cover casting (10lbs of scrap aluminium) was machined in the
>>> places I needed flat surfaces and to get rid of a bit of sag in the casting
>>> mostly for looks.  I'd occasionally spray a bit of WD-40 but mostly just
>>> held the shop vac to clean up the chips.
>>> 
>>> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/SpindleCoverplate-4.jpg
>>> 
>>> Essentially between 1000 and 2000 RPM, 2 flute 1/2" end mill, 25% step
>>> over, about 2.5 to 5 IPM IPM and a depth of cut of about 0.1" for each
>>> pass.  This created chips that did not melt onto the tool bit and left a
>>> quite nice smooth finish.
>>> 
>>> But with those parameters it did take quite a while.  OTOH, it ran
>>> automatically and other than check on it periodically and vacuum or blow
>>> away chips I could do other things nearby.
>>> 
>>> If I enter the parameters into Machinist Toolbox with a target RPM of 1500
>>> I see it suggests a tool feed rate of 21 IPM.  I think that would melt the
>>> chips without flood coolant.  Since I didn't want to screw it up and have
>>> to cast it all over again I was very conservative.
>>> 
>>> Was I too conservative on this?   It's been suggested by a friend who runs
>>> MACH3 that he dials in a much faster feed and spindle rate and then hauls
>>> back on the sliders to reduce it to very slow and then in small steps bumps
>>> up the speed until it feels right.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Suggestions are welcome.
>>> Thanks
>>> John
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>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Replacing a handle.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-10-13 09:31, Gene Heskett wrote:

>

Unforch, John, not even my latest copy of freecad can open that file.

>

It opens OK in the free version of Fusion 360.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Replacing a handle.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-10-13 06:31, John Dammeyer wrote:

Thanks Chris.
I haven't needed the handle all that badly or I would have done
something.   What I also just noticed is the plastic handle is held
with a rivet into the top of a larger extension.  New drawing
attached.



Isn't there also a raised ring on the inner end, where the cylindrical 
shaft for the handle meets the flat face of the main casting?


Will you make the handle shaft separately? How will you attach it (a 
screw through the handle into the shaft, thread the end of the shaft and 
the hole in the handle into which it will fit (which would allow the 
shaft to have a protruding flange on the end to trap the handle)? Or 
step the end of the shaft and braze or silver solder it into a hole in 
the handle? Each of those will, I think, add to the possibilities for 
workholding of the body of the handle.


As with most things requiring machining in more than one plane, this is 
an interesting workholding challenge.
When you buy a hand-held wood router, the snag is the array of cutters 
you will need.
When you buy a CNC machine you need some cutters, but the challenge is 
in the workholding. Sometimes, it is easier to use manual multi-setups 
the same as on a manual mill or lathe. But that's not really the point 
of an exercise like this, because its about rethinking the 
possibilities. It hurts the brain but produces new neural pathways...or, 
as a visual artist would say 'new ways of seeing'. Great fun.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-09-15 23:29, John Dammeyer wrote:

I have too much other stuff installed on that PC to want to re-install
the OS with a new version that included LinuxCNC 2.8.

Good point. I run a single dedicated PC for each machine. I also have 
swappable C:/ and D:/ drives, so I can preserve the old drives until I 
am happy with a new installation. I must admit I am slow to upgrade, so 
problems have usually been ironed out before I move to a new major 
version.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-09-15 22:10, John Dammeyer wrote:

 It's rarely ever smooth or simple.


I have consistently found it is less painful and usually quicker to 
simply download the whole live/install image and use that (after saving 
INI files etc).

Life is too short, etc.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Something went wrong.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-08-05 06:13, John Dammeyer wrote:


How does one know what size tabs and how many?


I view this as a mystical black art.
For me, the basic idea is to
(a) support the part to prevent damage when it separates from the 
parent, to stop it catching the cutter for example. In that case, 
position the tabs to provide enough support to prevent vibration or 
movement of any element.
(b) prevent the parent material from moving or, as in this case, 
collapsing as the part separates.


Tabs often serve purposes (a) and (b). From the point of view of 
clean-up afterwards, the fewer tabs the better, and the more accessible 
they are for removing and for subsequent finishing, the better. I would 
think first about whether the position of the tabs affects the accuracy 
required of the part. After that, I think about the aesthetics after 
clean-up. Tabs on a straight face are easier to clean up than on a 
curve, and tabs on an external curve are easier to clean up than on an 
inside curve, just because my flat files are closer to hand than the 
half-round files. There is an argument that cleaned up tabs on a curve 
tend to catch the eye less than on a straight face.


In the case of this particular part, I reckon you have this about right. 
The main problem is an inward collapsing due to the pressure from the 
vice jaws as well as possibly stresses in the tube which will naturally 
make it want to either spring apart or collapse inwards.


I quite like the triangular tabs because I find they can be a little 
easier to cut with a knife or a very fine saw blade, but the rectangular 
tabs are stronger and easier to program manually if necessary.
I like to make the tabs as thin as possible, to aid clean-up, but the 
over-riding factor must be the strength they require to do the job.


That's maybe not a clear answer, but those are the thoughts in my mind 
every time I have to place tabs.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Something went wrong.

[marcus . bowman]

John,

Two suggestions:

1. I have experienced the same symptoms in the past, and it turned out 
to be the bolts securing my Y axis nut (which has a square flanged base) 
moving under the inertial load of the table.


2. My approach to machining the part might be to not cut the box section 
to an L section.

Square off the end of the box section.
Mount a hard endstop on the side of the vice (or clamp something on the 
table) to act as a left endstop and reference.

Put the box section in the vice.
Machine the top face (for example: the face with the two elongated 
holes), but leave maybe 4 tabs to hold it in position. Don't do this 
right at the end of the box.
Remove the box, rotate 90 degrees, and grip again, against the endstop 
and with the other_face_to_be_machined uppermost.
Machine that other face (the one with the circular cut-out), perhaps 
leaving a couple of tabs to hold it in place and make sure the box 
doesn't try to collapse inwards.

Remove the box and manually cut the tabs.

Marcus




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Re: [Emc-users] Something went wrong.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-08-03 04:43, John Dammeyer wrote:
 So there are other issues before I can start on the Ball

Screw Conversion.



You might bear in mind that ballscrews which use a single nut don't have 
zero backlash. They do have consistent backlash over the length of the 
screw - until they wear, of course. They certainly have lower friction 
than an ACME nut, but the downside of that is that there is less 
frictional force to resist the tendency for a climb cut or a sharp 
change of direction to pull the slide through the backlash distance. 
Yes; backlash compensation in software can help, but tends not to 
completely eliminate the problem.
I draw all this from my own ballscrew conversion of my own mill, some 20 
years ago. If I was doing it again, I would use two nuts, with spring 
tension between the pair, on every axis (hindsight being a wonderful 
thing). I would also spend more than the considerable sum I have already 
spent, on higher spec ballscrews. I bought top quality screws, but not 
the very highest spec (the cost of which is now rather high).
The upside is the machine is still holding reasonable accuracy on the 
climb cuts I frequently use, after all this time and a long 
running/cutting time.


On your off-centre problem, I agree with the comments re: mounting the 
work. When cutting an internal circle (for periphery or pocket), I never 
use a plunge cut, but always lead and ramp into the cut from the centre, 
for each pass. So the motion of the controlled point is always a 
circular arc from the centre to the wall; around the wall; then a 
circular arc from wall back to centre; and repeat. On a large diameter 
circle that involves a little more time per pass, but is kind to the 
cutter and the work.


Regards,

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Metallurgical Advice?

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-07-28 18:25, Todd Zuercher wrote:


Is there any hope of repairing the table?  Are we going to have to
replace the whole table?  Could the crack be welded, or is that a bad
idea?  My main fear is that warpage issues will cause the linear
guides to bind.  (The table surface can always be re-milled flat.)
The crack isn't gaping or misaligned, and the table doesn't "look"
warped now that It's cool.



Todd,

On several occasions in the past I have had to make alterations to large 
aluminium mould tools for vacuum forming.
When parts of the mould have been altered by welding, there can be 
distortion, although I suppose it depends on how the welding is done, 
and on whether the item is pre-heated and then cooled in a controlled 
way after welding (none of which was done by the company who did our 
welding).
I have had much more success when I machined a part (usually a plate or 
a block) which was then attached by bolts to the main mould casting.
If it was my table, I would bolt a thick aluminium plate under the 
crack, using aluminium bolts (specially made, in the case of my moulds) 
or stainless bolts (which work just fine, despite the moulds being 
repeatedly heated and cooled).


Regards,

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Mounting spindle sensors.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-07-01 02:54, John Dammeyer wrote:

With a bit of oil on the part the chips come off
smoking.


A little more oil will cure or at least reduce the smoking. Flood would 
cure it completely, but more neat oil squirted on will do the trick.

How's my speed?  Too fast?  Too slow?  Just . right?

You could up the feed rate by 1/3, to 100mm/min (4in/min)in steel, I 
think. It all depends on how comfortable you and the mill feel.



The second part had a small disaster but I'll comment on that in a
separate posting.


So you belong to the same not_very_exclusive club as me, then...

Marcus


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[Emc-users] 3D printer long bed [was: Code of Conduct]

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-06-29 09:52, Robert Murphy wrote:

3D printing seems to be what the young people jive with.
It’d be great to slap on a heated bed and a print head on the mill and
get a slightly longer working envelope. Obviously with the right
config.



I'm no longer one of those 'young' people, but all the guys I know who 
are into 3D printers are over 60.


I have an FDM printer that would certainly benefit from a longer bed, 
although there are now printers whose bed is a moving belt to get 
additional length.

https://www.creality.com/goods-detail/creality-3dprintmill-3d-printer

My resin printers give outstanding quality, but the physical 
construction of all the resin printers I have seen would mean you would 
have to turn the bed into a bath, and provide a matching build plate in 
the chuck. Not impossible. But the physical arrangements for the screen 
and the exposure would by a bit more difficult, suggesting that a build 
from scratch would be more likely to succeed.


Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-06-28 00:08, andy pugh wrote:

LinuxCNC 2.8.2 has been released.



This is great news. Lovely to see the software being updated and 
continuously developed. Its a smashing tool.


Thanks to ALL the team.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Shuttle Express

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-06-24 17:29, John Dammeyer wrote:


Anyway, for now the Shuttle is back on the MACH3 based CNC router
where it's currently in use carving up MDF so I can't borrow it back
for a few days.




I have the Shuttle (not the Express, but the other one with the extra 
buttons etc).

It works a treat in Mach3 and is really useful.
It doesn't work in LinuxCNC, which is a right pain. Some years ago I 
tried that driver on the basis that it might at least give some 
functionality, but no; it doesn't want to play ball.
It was suggested that this model may not behave in quite the same way as 
the Express, but I can't say one way or the other, and never had the 
time to try to find out. At the time, I could find no information from 
the manufacturers, and they were not interested in supplying a driver.
I feel your frustration... especially given the price of these things, 
and the fact that it works so well in MACH3, which I don't run much 
these days.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-03-11 06:28, Chris Albertson wrote:

What's the best kind of steel to buy that gives a
combination of machinability on a small mill and strength.


I would be inclined to try EN8T which is a machinable steel with some 
tensile strength that can easily be hardened afterwards, using an 
oxy-acetylene torch.
Or the even better EN40T, which is tougher and more ductile. The T 
denotes that it is supplied in the hardened and tenpered state, but it 
machines very nicely. I hagve used EN40T in the lathe and the mill, and 
it gives a good finish without much difficulty. I have used EN40T for 
making replacement parts for a large hydraulic bender for stainless 
steel pipe, where the steel was roughly cone-shaped and was used by 
being forced into a set of hardened 'fingers' to swage the end of a 
pipe, so it was highly stressed and subject to wear. I didn't do any 
heat treatment - that was to be done by the owner of the machine 
(although I am not convinced they bothered).


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Assembled control cabinet

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-02-13 18:10, John Dammeyer wrote:

Friday night I put everything back onto the mill to make sure that
with all the cabinetry and wiring changes (including a new Knee Motor)
that I hadn't broken anything.

Everything works as this video demonstrates.
https://youtu.be/I6lvnYhlez4



Nice demo, and impressive speeds.

What is the max speed of the spindle?

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-02-07 03:27, Jon Elson wrote:

For a CNC retrofit, you really want
ballscrews, why not find a machine that comes with them from the
factory?

Having got into trouble some time ago when converting from ACME to 
ballscrews, I endorse Jon's view.
The problem with ballscres is that you may need to machine to sadle or 
the table casting to accommodate the nuts. Machining a stable casting 
always invites trouble (warping) and my experience suggests that while 
we are always optimistic that it will be fine, its simply won't.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Sheet metal operations.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-02-01 21:47, John Dammeyer wrote:



What I'm wondering is if it's worth the trouble to add XY to a 3 ton
arbour press.  The back fence for the 3:1 tool is almost done so it's
just a matter of finishing it.  But I can't see how any of the CAD/CAM
software out there addresses using a small punch to nibble out a
larger hole.  And truthfully my JGRO based CNC router with a small end
mill can just as easily cut out metal plate.  Or for that matter the
mill.
But is an XY punch even worth the effort?


This is a project I, too, have had echoing around the inside of my head 
for a long time. I have a flypress and a small 2 ton arbour press.  One 
application I can see that could be significantly improved by adding an 
XY capability would be for pressing sheet metal to create dummy rivets, 
for scale model locomotives. That is not punching through, but punching 
to form a protrusion. There are some hand-operated machines for doing 
that, and they offers a guide to assist in manually slipping the metal 
into position.

http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/rivet-embossing-tool.htm
http://www.modelrailroading.nl/news%20articles/tools/pages/rivet%20press.htm
and the highly regarded, but no longer available, GW Models press which 
has some XY manual positioning adjustment:

https://picclick.co.uk/GW-Models-Universal-Rivet-Press-tool-173452688000.html
Personally, this seems to me like a job crying out for a decent CNC XY 
positioning system.
Add a controllable-depth Z axis capable of exerting modest pressure, and 
you would be able to enter lists of co-ordinates and press 
pre-determined patterns of rivets with ease.
Add a simple piercing punch and a bit more power and you would be able 
to punch the holes for actual rivets.
You could always try using a powered toggle press, as they are designed 
for this kind of task.Big and heavy, though.
A flypress might be a possibility, if you devised a mechanism for 
turning the shaft (easy) then pulling it (reverse rotation) smartly as 
though you were vigorously swinging the arm/handle. Moving the weight at 
speed produces the force.


Or create a jig for holding the sheet, and use a conventional CNC mill, 
with the addition of an arrangement for pressing or punching, and you 
would have the same thing. easy for thin brass, but not quite so 
straight forward where large forces are required on the Z axis.


Sounds like a useful project to me, whichever way you go.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-01-06 04:25, Bruce Layne wrote:

Why don't you just install a spoil board and machine it flat like most
people do with a CNC router?

When I converted my mill, I followed some published instructions for an 
identical mill, and added ballscrews. That involved machining a shallow 
'trench' on the underside of the bed. I know machining a casting is 
always risky, but I trusted the instructions and figured the bed must be 
sufficiently well seasoned or stress relieved, so I went ahead.
Of course the bed bowed along the Y axis, quite noticeably. I then took 
it to the only machine shop in this area and spoke to the foreman. By 
pure luck, they had a grinder with a large bed, and the foreman was 
sufficiently interested in my attempts to convert my mill that he used 
the job as an example for the apprentices. I got a beautifully flat bed, 
nicely finished, and they got a box of prizes for their annual golf 
competition.
A couple of months later, the big grinder went in the skip, along with 
all the other manual machines. The factory concentrated on CNC machining 
of toolheads for the oil drilling industry. With the downturn in recent 
times, the factory has gone, so no more machine shops in this area.


In the absence of someone to do a surface grinding job, I would do one 
of two things.
First, as Bruce suggests, I would mount a plate on the bed and flycut it 
flat. If you drill an array of holes, tap some and ream others for pins, 
you will have a handy way of securing work, holding your vice, jig, 
fixtures etc.  It may be difficult to reach the whole of the table, so a 
good alternative is to mount a couple of blocks parallel to Y and flycut 
the tops of those, then bolt a plate to the tops. Even with my flat bed, 
I use this arrangement as it locates the work a little higher. The top 
plate has bolt holes and pin holes and I use those to hold a selection 
of fixtures for various jobs. I seldom remove the sub-plate and revert 
to the bed. You may be able to buy T-slotted table tops from other mills 
(SEIG table tops are available in the UK in small and large sizes at 
reasonable prices). Mount one of those on the blocks.
A second approach, developed because of a particular job that keeps 
reappearing, is to mount a long SEIG table top on L-shaped legs using a 
tilting arrangement which pivots the table near the top front, along the 
X axis. That gives me a table large enough to hold large-ish plates so 
that I can machine one edge at an angle. It has been useful for other 
jobs too. Adjustment is from -5 to a positive angle which depends on the 
height of the legs.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-01-02 06:53, John Dammeyer wrote:

I have noticed the 3D
printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.


I wonder whether that is because the surface of the teeth will 
inevitably be rougher than if they had been die-cast or machined?



But the noisy grind
of the stepper motor is also gone.


Got to be a bonus.


More when it's wired up to LinuxCNC.


Looking forward to that. Following this topic with interest.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] Great display of 28-axis machine control - totally OT

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-12-30 02:20, Chris Albertson wrote:
This is I think to date the best display of machine motion programming 
ever


https://youtu.be/fn3KWM1kuAw


Truly outstanding.
The Lead Programmer obviously has a great sense of humour.

Marcus


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[Emc-users] Beaglebone and MachineKit

[marcus . bowman]

John (or anyone else),

Is there a 'cape' currently available to suit the Beaglebone Black 
running MachineKit or LinuxCNC?
I know there used to be a cape specifically for that purpose, but it has 
been out of production for some time.
I have a Beaglebone I would like to press into service running either 
LinuxCNC or MachineKit.

Are images available for both?

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle indexing

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-12-06 05:41, John Dammeyer wrote:

What I was wondering is if LinuxCNC, with a suitable Servo Motor or
high res encoder on the spindle can treat it like a 4th axis on a
mill.



Some years ago, I came across a chap who had created the InTurn, which 
was essentially a lathe headstock for the bed of the mill. It was later 
taken up by Tormach, although I no longer see it on their web site. That 
used a servo to run at lathe spindle speeds, but I am sure it was also 
capable of indexing. It features a disc brake to hold position. This was 
no lightweight affair.


https://www.youtube.com/c/Simpsons36/videos

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Version 2.8.1 is released

[marcus . bowman]

Thanks to the team for the update,
and for all the effort.
It is much appreciated.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Analog circuits ebook - from e-magazine "Electronic Design"

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-11-28 18:36, Karl Schmidt wrote:

I would second this recommendation.. If you want to get into
Electronic design you should read any/everything by Pease, Jim
Williams, and Bob Widlar ..


So would
Circuits, Devices and Systems by Smith
be a potential member of that list?
Mine is Second edition, published by Wiley (1971)

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] ender 3 and low quality sprockets

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-11-11 05:12, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings 3d printer X-spurts;

So I've come to the conclusion that quite a bit of what you can 
download

as .stl's, are intended to be very low resolution so as not to compete
with the same you-toobers commercial offerings.


I don't know if that is the reason, but I have certainly found that only 
a small percentage of the Thingiverse stls are worth using. That's 
mostly because I have issues with the design of the parts, rather than 
the printed output, but your thought adds an interesting dimension to 
the argument. I don't know how print quality is related to an stl file, 
becuase I had assumed most of the quality of interpretation lies in the 
slicer. But maybe not.


What nozzle size and layer thickness did you use? I assume it was much 
the same as for the harmonic drive, but I certainly find the difference 
between, say, o.2mm and 0.1mm layer height makes a huge difference to 
the quality. I tend to stick with 0.4mm nozzle size, but I know from 
friends that a move to a smaller nozzle can improve quality even further 
- even if print times do become rather extended for larger jobs.
I am using a cheap Anet A8 printer, which is essentially a copy of the 
Ender i3.





And my printer isn't
the piece of crap I turned off in disgust 6 weeks back.  I am 
impressed.




No; low price does not necessarily mean low quality prints. It does mean 
the printer will probably require some fettling and mollycoddling to 
give of its best, but there are no surprises there.
I note that the recent models of the Anet and Ender feature more rigid 
metal frames (Anet is plastic) - although they are still a bit flimsy if 
you ask me.

As with machine tools, rigidity is (nearly) everything.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] I am STILL not getting G2/G3

[marcus . bowman]

Gene,

I am probably barking up the wrong tree, but:

As a general method, I would position the controlled point where I 
wanted the routine to begin.

(Say at X40 Y25 Z10)
Then I would call the subroutine.
Inside the subroutine, I would use G92 to set the current position to 
zero (or some other useful value - but usually zero).

So that would mean putting
G92 X0 Y0 Z0
at the start. And that would create an offset for the whole co-ordinate 
system, so that the controlled point is now considered to be at X0 Y0 Z0 
(or whatever you specified when you used the G92 command).

Then there would be the various commands to get the job done.
The subroutine would end with
G92.1
to remove the overall offset and return the co-ordinate system to its 
original values before I called the subroutine.


I don't see G92 or G92.1 anywhere in your code.
I do see G91, but I am not sure why - not that it matters, provided it 
is not trying to do the job of G92.


I may be well of beam with this, and may have misunderstood the problem, 
in which case I apologize.


Regards,

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-10-21 20:10, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any 
experience?


I understand the problem has been that soluble cutting oil tends to 
drench the operator at waist level (on older machines which do not have 
total enclosures). That led to a noted connection between cancer and 
soluble oil.
I don't know of any link between neat cutting oil and medical 
conditions, but it is an oil, so the usual hazards apply.


I have serious reservations about the current fashion for atomised mist 
spray coolant, which I believe to be a real danger to the lungs and 
possibly the eyes, nose and mouth. I have not seen any medical studies 
on this, but atomised fluids of all sorts are generally a bad idea.

Just my opinion.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-10-19 23:30, John Dammeyer wrote:


I haven't looked into what's available from China other than the
Bergerda AC Servos I'm using as a mill spindle and will be using as
the South Bend Lathe Lead screw upgrade.


Can you tell me the model of servo, please. And explain the control 
device?
That would help me move forward two ongoing projects (one for a 
converted 1500W/2HP mill which has been running LinuxCNC for the last 16 
years with manual control of spindle speed, and another for a 750W/1HP 
lathe I am upgrading from a proprietary CNC control system to LinuxCNC, 
renewing the obsolete electronics and the motors at the same time).

Thanks. (It's another excuse to postpone work for a few minutes...)

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[marcus . bowman]

Why not flood with neat cutting oil? It's a much nicer smell, although 
you do need to watch out for staining of close-fitting surfaces.


I have serious doubts about the health hazard that a mist of any sort 
poses to the operator's respiratory system.


Marcus




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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Marcus Bowman]

> On Sunday 02 August 2020 13:32:03 Bruce Layne wrote:
> 
>> I'd 3D print some low profile clips for the glass plate

I used Bulldog clips. I cut the handles short on to of them, to stop them 
fouling the uprights as the platform passes through. Basically, I used 1 clip 
per side. Works fine.

>> 
>> 
>> My 3D printers were fine with no retuning after I added some thick
>> borosilicate glass,

Mine too.

>>   I think
>> these glass bed upgrades are usually done without changing the motor
>> parameters.

That's what I did --- nothing at all. Works fine.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting plastic film

[Marcus Bowman]

On 25 Jul 2020, at 08:43, andrew beck wrote:

>  single flute
> router cutters for like 3usd.Just trying to help fellow
> linuxcnc guys

Thanks. That's really useful to know. At around 80USD for a 12mm cutter 
locally, this is a source I will try, especially when you are saying you have 
found them sharp.

Marcus






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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting plastic film

[Marcus Bowman]

I bought a cheap drag knife some time ago, from a far off land, but I have not 
yet used it, because:
(a) it does need routines for turning corners, and
(b) upon inspection, I decided that a critical factor is likely to be the 
ability of the knife to swivel very freely; and this cheap one didn't. Rather 
than embark on yet another 'small' project, I put it in the 'later, maybe' 
drawer.

I machine a fair amount of plastic, but not thin film.
For a small quantity, I might try clamping it between thicker sheets and using 
a very sharp single-flute carbide router cutter (like an AccuPro from MSC 
Direct). These are just the job for plastics like Acetal/Delrin, although they 
are relatively expensive. They work marvellously well in aluminium too.

Marcus


On 25 Jul 2020, at 02:02, andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 01:48, Matthew Herd  wrote:
>> 
>> I did some reading.  Here’s a much cheaper one.  
>> https://www.amazon.com/Carbide-Housing-Silhouette-Machines-Portrait/dp/B07LBN6Y89
> 
> Yes, that is also in pen-plotter format.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] mailing list for ender 3 pro owners?

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-07-17 23:03, Gene Heskett wrote:
 What I've found on the web seems to say that black
PLA needs more heat for normal stuff and even more for starter 
adhesion.




I use a fair amount of black PLA+, and run my Anet A8 at 225 nozzle, 60 
bed. I have found some variation in temperature for different colours, 
but nothing that would cause problems here (black, white, red, blue). 
Note this is PLA+ rather than straight PLA, but other users I talk to 
seem to have success with PLA and pretty much the same temperatures.
I gave up on rafts: too much cleaning up after the print has finished. I 
use a glass bed (attached with crocodile clips) and lay down a coat of 
strong PVA glue, mixed 3 parts glue to 1 part water. Then I use a brim, 
one layer high. Works a treat. In fact it takes a bit of knocking to get 
it off the glass (run it under hot water, and swipe the brim layer with 
a large kitchen knife. The same glue works just fine with the aluminium 
plate bed.


The Anet is basically the same as the Ender, but cheaper (and probably 
not as refined).

My nozzle is 0.1mm (4 thou) off the bed at Home.

Large prints can take a long time, but I notice that a low infill 
percentage still provides decent strength for most jobs, and speeds 
things up. I usually print at 0.2mm layer height, unless I need fine 
detail. That keeps run times a little shorter.


Other users report that the best prints seem to occur when the ambient 
temperature in the room is high. I print in a cold room (big garage), 
but PLA doesn't seem to mind. I think ABS would.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] 2.9.0 Jerky jog

[Marcus Bowman]

You may be getting RFI from that motor.

Marcus

On 5 Jul 2020, at 23:58, N wrote:

>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 14:07, N  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are currently using version 2.9.0 pre something. G0 move work smoothly but 
>>> jogging is jerky, anyone else here made same experience?
>> 
>> How are you jogging?
> 
> Jogging speed is high, have a small toy motor on desktop behind me then I 
> test software, it is less noticable then speed is turned down to rather slow 
> speed I expect is used for jogging. It still sometime turn up in "vel" field, 
> small spike rather seldom, as number is very even and stable I do not think 
> it come from feedback and is calculated before sent to hardware
> 
>> This is new in 2.9:
>> joint.N.jog−accel−fraction IN FLOAT
>> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] max motor size that a 8i20 can control

[Marcus Bowman]

Wow: that's a beauty.
Did you give it a wax and polish to get that shine?

Marcus

On 22 Jun 2020, at 09:23, andrew beck wrote:

> Hey guys.  I bought the vertical machining centre!
> 
> Bringing it home tomorrow then into the retro hopefully.
> 
> Here are some photos
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Qdf89ubgfqixenaH8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 4:54 AM Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
>> On 06/06/2020 06:47 AM, andrew beck wrote:
>>> hey andy
>>> 
>>> my motor feedback type is a fanuc incremental encoder.  i think it is a
>> sin
>>> cos.
>> If this is the 10S motor you are talking about, it has
>> traditional differential TTL quadrature plus index, plus 4
>> commutation signals that repeat 4 times per revolution.
>> Yes, it is an 8-pole motor.
>>>  I did go throught it and checked that it was not a serial encoder a
>>> couple of months ago but I wil try dig the info out later  I think it is
>>> 2048ppr
>> No, the 10S is not available with 2048 pulses.  Your choices
>> are 1000, 2000, 2500, 3000 and 10,000.
>> 
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Printer working, need involute gear designer

[marcus . bowman]

Gene,

Have you looked at www.gearotic.com
or did someone mention that already?

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Health update

[Marcus Bowman]

On 10 Jun 2020, at 19:15, Gene Heskett wrote:

> . But I do have to admit, its been one heck of 
> a ride.

I was my Mum's carer for many years and we had breakfast together every day.
Sometimes she was tired and would trot out an old saying
"Keep going old horse, and you'll get corn"
When I was a lot younger, I just thought it was daft, but I'm older now, and 
she was not wrong.
She was active up to the end, and I think she was right. There's no other way 
to go.

Marcus





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Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure

[Marcus Bowman]

This is interesting, for two reasons:
1. I had two Geckos fail last year, after 10 years or so running at 78 volts. 
The Gecko pins were not burnt, but I did burn a pin on a heavy duty 5 pin XLR 
connector, twice on the same connector.Gecko combination.
2. I suffered intermittent failure on one axis, and simply could not find what 
was causing the trouble. Swapped cables; waggled cables; replaced the cable 
connectors; no luck at all.

Finally, one Gecko 210 failed. So, I swapped the leads to the Gecko for another 
axis I wasn't using for the job (4th axis). Spectacular Bang and I lost that 
Gecko too. Expensive. Almost shed a tear.
It may be the fault of the intermittent connections Rafael mentions (Thanks for 
that info).

I replaced the 210 duds with the 213V model, which seem to give a smoother 
drive but which, crucially, will drop out and indicate an error rather than act 
like fuses. 

I must dig out the old duds and check the connectors, out of interest.

Marcus


On 6 Apr 2020, at 16:50, Dave Cole wrote:

> 
> I agree, however I wonder how long you have to wait until the Phoenix 
> connector rises again???  ;-)
> 
> And perhaps it needs to be further burnt to complete "ashes" ??
> 
> Perhaps a call to the Phoenix connector support hotline is in order?
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Dave
> 
> On 4/6/2020 9:58 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 14:55, andy pugh  wrote:
>> 
>>> I wonder if that is a real or fake Phoenix connector?
>> I suppose you will know if a new connector arises from the ashes.
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Had to share

[Marcus Bowman]

Spam, spam, double-spam, egg, spam, spam and spam.
Loved the video; wouldn't eat the end product, though.

Marcus

On 27 Mar 2020, at 11:25, andy pugh wrote:

> https://youtu.be/GX68sOHZ12M
> 
> For maximum enjoyment turn on auto-captions. They really can't handle
> his accent.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] question about glue

[Marcus Bowman]

On 11 Feb 2020, at 18:34, Chris Albertson wrote:

> "JB Weld" Epoxy.  It is a mixture of two part epoxy and steel powder.   Get
> it at any auto parts store or Home Depot.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 10:30 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> What sort of glue can I use that can withstand an oily environment of
>> light 00w20 for many years?
>> 

My bet would be on Araldite or the equivalent of JB Weld.
I would roughen the aluminium surface, and try to give it an undercut 'key' of 
some sort. I would do the same with any plastic. I might even put some fine 
copper wire around the package and leave flying ends so that they too would 
provide some extra security if they are embedded in the epoxy.

Marcus
 

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Re: [Emc-users] Backlash comp monitoring

[Marcus Bowman]

On 24 Jan 2020, at 05:07, David Berndt wrote:
> 
> I'm having a bit of an issue with some geometry not coming out as expected, I 
> was hoping that being able to see what backlash comp is doing on screen.

It would also be very useful to understand the algorithm being used to apply 
backlash compensation. Is there a link to an explanation, somewhere?

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.15 released!

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-01-06 05:12, Phill Carter wrote:

apt-get upgrade only updates an existing package to a newer version.
It is what I have always used on my LinuxCNC machines.

And being paranoid, I first backup my config files. Being full of good 
intentions, but usually pressed for time, and not having a pencil to 
hand, I need to be 100% sure upgrading will not overwrite my modified 
but incompletely documented configs. Losing those would produce immense 
amounts of angst and self-recrimination etc.

Yes; basic stuff that everyone knows..but

Writing this note has reminded me I really should run some up-to-date 
printouts. (Thanks).


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Need a power signal independent of linuxcnc.

[Marcus Bowman]

Would a half-decent UPS not solve the problem?
More expensive, for sure, but fine for brown-outs and short cuts.
I know these were discussed recently, but we used to use them to keep computer 
systems going in broadcast radio studios where the Buildings department used to 
cut the power as part of a fire test routine. The transmitter was fed from a 
computer-based sustaining service overnight, but would not restart at the right 
place if the power was cut, then restored, without intervention. I got fed up 
with call-outs on a weekly basis. Pleadings and explanations fell on deaf ears, 
of course; but the UPS prevented the need for a manual reset on power-up, and I 
got my beauty sleep (badly needed, according to some...).

Marcus
 
On 10 Dec 2019, at 11:46, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 09 December 2019 22:45:26 Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
>> Greetings PCW and all;
>> 
>> I find I need a way to do a powerdown reset on the interface box of
>> one of my machines. And it needs to be separate from linuxcnc.  That,
>> or some way to tickle the 7i76D to reset it before I start LinuxCNC
>> the second time because hal can't find spinout.
>> 
>> I am finding that little power bumps, not enough to do a full
>> powerdown reset, are killing the 5i25 to 7i76's serial com.  Short of
>> rigging a 3rd hand switch on the shelf to toggle the interface power,
>> or getting out a stepladder to access the one on the rear of the
>> shelf, once the 7i76 has been bumped, the seriel port is dead until a
>> full, several seconds dark powerdown, there seems to be no other
>> recovery method that works.
>> 
>> Ideas anyone???  Or do I go get a switch plus socket and position it
>> where I can operate it from the front of the machine?
>> 
>> Thanks all.
>> 
> Shucks, I was hoping there was a secret handshake I could put in a rapper 
> for linuxcnc that would tickle the right 5i25 bit(s) to do a full reset 
> on the 7i76D just before linuxcnc was started.
> 
> So I guess I'll have to stop at Lowes on my way home from the horsepistol 
> tomorrow, and get one of those combo switch and outlet gizmo's and a 
> handibox.
> 
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.7.14 Axis Problem with File

[Marcus Bowman]

On 25 Nov 2019, at 13:16, andy pugh wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 13:15, Thomas D. Dean  wrote:
> 
>> I pressed many keys, maybe ESC?.  CTRL-ALT-F2 did nothing.  Strange.
> 
> Esc definitely works, though it may not work quickly.
> 

I don't doubt it is supposed to. But I have suffered this situation once or 
twice, also because of incorrectly controlled loops, and I have yet to be able 
to make LinuxCNC respond to key presses to terminate the infinite loop. It's a 
pain - but my own fault, I guess. I have learned to check carefully before 
loading. That's not to say I always have code which has flawless loops, of 
course (nor flawless anything else).

Marcus


> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] misters for really small setups?

[marcus . bowman]

On 2019-09-30 18:16, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Where can I find a mister assembly with a tip 1/4 the size of the 
common
tip used with the bendable linked coax hosing everybody sells for 
around

$10 USD a copy.



Could you use a cheap airbrush?

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] First project with LinuxCNC.

[marcus . bowman]

John Dammeyer said:

Well. Not the best in the worldMarcus says:That rather depends on how
you define 'best'. Personally, I would say that the result certainly
is the 'best' in the sense that producing the work and proving the
machine and workflow is the optimum outcome at this stage.Deserves not
only a cup of tea, but a biscuit too.(Apologies for the format of this
message. I'm unfamiliar with the behaviour of the web email client on
this machine.)



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Re: [Emc-users] bluing scraping

[Marcus Bowman]

On 27 Apr 2019, at 13:29, TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> 
> Winsor Newton Winton Oil 1414538 Prussian Blue 37ml
> 
> This stuff is really easy to see.
> the granite plate charges and stays for many imprints.
> 
> hope this helps someone
> 
Thanks for that. I have some 'genuine' blue, but it is really messy. I also got 
a new Sandvick scraper last week, so I'm dying to try the Winsor & Newton. I 
use their Indian Ink on clock dials, sometimes. Pity our local art shop closed 
down. Amazon will have to do.

Marcus




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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting aly with a drop/sliding saw

[Marcus Bowman]

On 26 Apr 2019, at 06:58, Gene Heskett wrote:

> a tooth style called ATBF, where a flat topped 
> tooth is fitted between the angled teeth.

I use a table saw fitted with an ATB blade for cutting sheets of aluminium up 
to 16mm thick. It works a treat, and gives a pretty fair cut, even on angled 
cuts.
The ATB blade came with my old DeWalt radial arm saw, which I got second hand 
from a chap who use to make flight cases for musicians (ali panels, angle 
corners, etc).
Cutting thick sheet, the blade has remained tolerably sharp for a long time. 
It's a bit larger than the 9 inch blade on the table saw, so there is very 
little clearance, but just enough to work safely.
I cut blocks on my ancient reciprocating ('donkey') saw, and it is accurate but 
slow.

I cut Acetal and Delrin bar on the reciprocating saw, with a very sharp and 
relatively coarse-pitched blade. It's accurate but a bit slow. I'm too scared 
to cut it on the radial arm saw, but I would welcome ideas as to how to cut 
fast but accurately through Acetal bar from 32mm up to 75mm diameter, holding a 
tolerance of +/- 0.5mm. The bar lying on the workshop floor is ready to be cut 
into approximately 1000 slices, so any time saving would be valuable.
It's the old story: I turned a specimen on the spindle of the vertical mill, 
partly as a demonstration of  LinuxCNC, but the job has grown a thousandfold, 
and the order keeps repeating - larger every time. But the sawing takes most of 
the time.

Marcus


 



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Re: [Emc-users] Vacuum bed for router Re: Servo reduction for gantry machine

[Marcus Bowman]

On 24 Apr 2019, at 10:18, Les Newell wrote:

> I guess you could seal it afterwards with paint. 

Yes, but having painted MDF before, it requires a particular sealer, then 
several coats of paint, which is a bit of a pain. So its a method which is 
lower in material cost than, say aluminium, but much higher in labour 'cost'.

Marcus




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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[marcus . bowman]

I am still using Inventor 2011. Yes; it took a while to get to grips
with it, but it's very capable. I have 2014 but have never installed
it (always seem to be waiting for a newer computer). Inventor has
become Fusion 360 now, so there seems little point in upgrading
Inventor itself. There is no CAM element to Inventor 2011, so models
are exported as STEP files, then imported into Vectric's  VCarve Pro
if they are to be milled, or Repetier if they are to be 3D printed.

 I think any capable 3D CAD/CAM program will take a bit of learning,
and for me the big step was learning to think in 3D. I have found the
process requires me to think more about how to manufacture the object,
than simply to draw it. The most challenging part has been learning
how to create objects with complex angles between different planes,
which I need for drawing large moulding tools.Strangely, although I
know how to do classic pencil-and-paper technical drawing, I found
AutoCAD quite frustrating to use, and 3D drawing much more liberating
once I got going. Inventor is based on the AutoCAD engine, but you
would never know it from using Inventor.

I have tried many of the free programs, but they vary too much in both
approach to the task and in real capability to make much impression on
me. If I can't get my head around how the programmer thinks about 3D
objects, I find it difficult to use the program. TinkerCAD for 3D
printing is a classic example. I have a friend nearby who creates all
manner of things in TinkerCAD. I can barely draw a square with a hole
in the middle, because I don't think about 3D objects in the same way
as the programmer did when creating the interface. That's strange,
because TinkerCAD is based on the  Inventor engine (which, like the
Russian dolls, is based on AutoCAD...).
As an aside, my final year project at University, a very long time
ago, was creating a program to produce a drawing of interpenetrating
pipes, and a layout drawing for heavy steel sheet to be cut then
rolled into pipes for oil rig legs. The others in my yeargroup were
working on other aspects of drawing on a computer; all of which was
new in those early days. It was all based on a mathematical approach
to classic 2D drawing techniques. So its a source of joy and wonder to
me that we have such capable 3D  CAD/CAM software nowadays. It makes
workshop life so much more interesting.
One other aspect from those early days, was a procedure for generating
two photos of a drawing on a flat monitor screen. The camera took two
photos simultaneously but from two different angles, 5 degrees apart.
The resultant images were loaded into a ViewMaster type of slide
projector, and produced a 3D image of the object. Where are you now,
Occulus??? That was in 1974.

I signed up for Fusion360 (free version) a long time ago, but need  a
decent  64-bit machine to be able to run it, so that will have to
wait.

I also signed up for OnShape, but that would not run on my Mac or on
any of my (slightly older) PCs. I don't know anyone who is using that
software, and my impression is that their 'free' business model didn't
last terribly long.

I tried SolidWorks a long time ago, and went to a demo/workshop
session. I could understand how to use the program (based on my
experience with Inventor) but the licence was way more expensive than
a full-price Inventor licence, and the ongoing costs were not
inconsiderable, so I left that alone.

I think that as far as CAD/CAM programs go, you get what you pay for.
Or maybe the capability of Inventor has spoiled me.
The free licence for Fusion360 has to be a real bargain, for as long
as it lasts.

Marcus

- Original Message -
From: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" @lists.sourceforge.net>
To:"Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

Cc:
Sent:Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:38:35 -0400
Subject:Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

 On Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 22:32 Jon Elson  wrote:

 > On 03/22/2019 04:14 PM, Jeff Johnson wrote:
 > > Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?
 > >
 > >
 > We just got set up with Autocad Inventor at work. While
 > very capable, and it has lots of good CAM strategies, it is
 > SO COMPLICATED! We have one guy here who got good with it,
 > so I let my meager skills lapse, and now I barely know how
 > to view a document.
 >
 > I think Fusion is a very similar program.
 >
 > Jon
 >

 The Lars Christensen Fusion 360 videos on YouTube are very good. Lars
 works for Autodesk.

 Dave

 >
 >
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Re: [Emc-users] g92 problems

[marcus . bowman]

 

Gene wrote:;

 The docs for G92 are a bit hazy, I find that with no arguments, it
still 
puts the machines 0,0 at where the machine is ATM, which is not what
I 
needed. Is this intentional?

That would imply G92 X0 Y0 would set Z0 because the command does not
refer to the Z axis. In practice, it doesn't do that. Instead, it
leaves Z unchanged, as we would expect. Or maybe it is a behaviour
which only occurs when there are no specified axes at all? If so,
then, logically, it should set all unmentioned  axes to zero,
including Z, A, B,C, U, V, W  etc. Setting Z to zero by default
might cause a problem or two.Marcus 



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Re: [Emc-users] Fiddling with home in gcode

[Marcus Bowman]

I' m not entirely sure I have the correct picture of what you are trying to do, 
but I have cut lots of panels covered in holes for D-subs and audio connectors 
(for sound studios) and a series of mould plates for plastic moulding which 
consist of rows of identical recesses.
G92.1 cancels all G92 offsets, so that always goes in the initialisation block 
in all my programs.
If I am cutting rows of holes, with simple or complex outlines, I always go the 
the hole position, then use a subroutine to cut the hole. The subroutine always 
begins with G92 and always ends with G92.1
That is, I think, a slightly different application from your own, but the 
documentation here 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems#G52_coordinate_offset_not_yet_implemented
states that G52 is not yet implemented. I've used it in Mach3, and it works 
fine there, so its a pity it is not yet available in LinuxCNC (if the 
documentation is correct).
However; you could reset HOME for, say, G54, by writing to systems parameters 
5221-5230, to give the same effect.
I would be inclined to read 5221-5230 into other parameters; then change their 
values to a new HOME position, then restore the original values from your own 
parameters.

But perhaps I am simplifying (or complicating) something which is more complex 
than I have understood.

Marcus

 
On 23 Dec 2018, at 11:11, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings all;
> 
> It will still be a while before I'm ready to cut this panel on the new 
> machine.
> 
> Can't sleep, and had the idea to use the existing holes to automaticly 
> establish both home, and the panels length.
> 
> I've measured the panels width, and established a center line for Y at 
> half that. 
> 
> The mounting holes are plus or minus 0.65625 from this center line Y. So 
> if I have to adjust the panel width, the other points follow as they 
> are .0.6000 from the bottom or top. Whats more of a SWAG is the 
> mounting hole offset from the ends of the panel, which ATM I've measured 
> at .3125" in from the ends
> 
> These mounting holes are also nominally a 4mm hole at the bottom of the 
> counter sink. In terms of a thru hole.
> 
> So it occurres to me to skip cutting the outline once a good fit has been 
> achieved.
> 
> Then I want to use a variation of my hole_finder routine to "find" the 
> lower left of one of these holes. Once that has been done, goto the 
> matching hole on the other end of the panel and "find" that hole, and 
> use that offset to reset #<_panel_len> a few thou, which I can then use 
> to reset the center line. All the rest of the hole locations except the 
> dsubs will follow along, thereby maintaining the precisely laid out 
> appearance of all the round hole spacings. All this so the last two 
> copies I cut can be done on the satin brushed finished OEM panel from 
> the box kit. Purtier that way than on the side panel of a wrecked ups 
> van complete with a decades worth of road salt etc on it.
> 
> Is this a place for the G52, to effectively rehome all maps after the 
> first hole is found. I see G92 can do the same thing but I'm not sure I 
> want it more or less permanent. I think it would be a safer assumption 
> if it died with the M2. However I see that G52 is current co-ordinate, 
> while G92 is all maps, which is what I want. Sooo, looks like its G92, 
> with cancelation stuff in the file preamble.
> 
> Are there any gotchas to the idea that I should be aware of?
> I've already put the disable_g92_persistence in the [rs274] section.
> 
> Thanks guys, have a joyous Christmas.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Where's the path?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 22 Oct 2018, at 23:15, Gene Heskett wrote:
>  what you probably want 
> is:
> 
> PROGRAM_PREFIX  = /home/marcus/linuxcnc/nc_files
> 

Thanks, Gene.
I had already set the path in PROGRAM_PREFIX, but what I didn't notice is that 
it is case sensitive - or at least that I had entered lower instead of upper 
case. Just going too quickly, I guess.
Changing the case to CNC_files got it working fine.

I did as I guess most of us do, and edited the .ini file for that machine, 
carefully defining the paths for the program files, the subroutines and the 
user M-codes.
On revisiting this problem, I re-read the documentation and discovered (or 
rather read more slowly) a couple of useful things I didn't know, so all of 
this has been helpful.

>> The other real annoyance is that when I select the correct directory,
>> the window that opens is always too small.
> 
> Yup, that default is always too small, but I expect its a recompile to 
> fix it. Minor annoyance. The horizontal slider needs to be replaced with 
> a vertical that responds to the mouse wheel. That would make loading a 
> new program bunches faster.


OK; so this one is not something I can control. I will see if I can request 
this for the development cycle, as it is irritating. A window that 
automatically opens, say, 3/4 the size of the existing monitor size would be 
ideal, I think. Associating the mouse wheel with the slider is a good idea.

Marcus




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[Emc-users] Where's the path?

[Marcus Bowman]

You know those little things that finally do your head in?

When I choose to Open a file in LinuxCNC, it uses an inconvenient path name, so 
I always have to go up a couple of levels and select the directory I need. I 
can't find where the path name is stored, in LinuxCNC or in Axis.
Where should I be looking?
I suppose it's in Axis, but the path it uses by default is:
home/marcus/linuxcnc/configs/WabecoMill
when I really need
home/marcus/linuxcnc/CNC_files

In the previous version of LinuxCNC I had installed I didn't have this problem 
(I'm on 2.7.14, and upgraded from 2.something_much_earlier).

The other real annoyance is that when I select the correct directory, the 
window that opens is always too small. Where is the size of the window defined? 
Again, I suppose this is Axis, but I can't find where to look.

I'd appreciate any pointers.

Marcus

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Re: [Emc-users] No mail received?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 19 Oct 2018, at 19:11, Bruce Layne wrote:

>   There was a lengthy phase when I wasn't saving much time with unattended 
> CNC machining because I'd just stand there staring at the CNC machining while 
> thinking, "This is so cool."
> 
There is nothing quite so satisfying as having lunch while listening to the CNC 
mill working for me. I sometimes leave the workshop door open (between the 
workshop and the rest of the house) just to hear its busy sounds.

> Huge thanks to those who made LinuxCNC the incredible tool it is today.
+1 to that, for sure.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] Just in case anyone is interested in my tool changer...

[Marcus Bowman]

On 27 Aug 2018, at 21:44, Les Newell wrote:

> I uploaded a quick video of it in action 
> 
Nice action, and I like the logic for the tool length setting/not setting.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc run problems

[Marcus Bowman]

On 8 Aug 2018, at 01:29, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Tuesday 07 August 2018 19:26:41 Mark Wendt wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 19:03 Gene Heskett   wrote:
>>> The joint 2 following error is likely stopping it before it can move
>>> the on-screen DRO more than 2 or 3 counts if that far.

Two thoughts:
First: I had a joint following error which occurred because the machine was 
trying to exceed acceleration limits for the axis. Those limits were set in the 
ini file, so I edited that and eliminated the problem. But I can't see how that 
would happen if you have not recently altered the ini file.
Second thought is:
Can you disable the automatic axis zeroing cycle, and just use manual home 
setting, and see what happens? That way, the machine should not even attempt to 
move any axis until you home them all manually, by clicking on the Home button, 
and not actually moving the axis.
Then you can jog each axis individually. You can also move each individually at 
various speeds for various distances and see what happens.

Marcus

>>> Double-check
>>> all your db25's to make sure they are screwed together solidly, and
>>> if thats not it, double check the interface card (if using one, like
>>> a 5i25 etc, and not a mobo parport) to make sure its sitting solidly
>>> in the motherboard socket. The Oak shoe-boxes intel shipped with the
>>> MW525 mobo's, have a tendency to lift the rear of the interface
>>> board out of its pci socket.
>>> 
>>> A different instance in one of my machines, the G0704, I had to cut
>>> 1/2" off the ends of the ribbon, and put my vice to good use by
>>> reinstalling the plugs to the cable, padding the open side of the
>>> connector with a stick of pine so as not to crush the metallic
>>> shell. That was 2 or 3 years ago, and has given me no further
>>> trouble.  It had worked the cable back out of the idc pins almost
>>> 1/16", enough to kill some of the connections.  No stress on it,
>>> thermal
>> 
>> Compaq desktop computer. Two PCI parallel port cards. Heavy duty
>> parallel cables I bought years ago. You'd have to hit 'em with a .50
>> BMG to do any damage to them. Both cables ohm'd out good. Both cards
>> are well seated in their respective PCI slots.
>> 
>> It takes a couple of seconds for the velocity to ramp up on the
>> display before the joint 2 error pops up. No change during that time
>> in the Z axis position on the display.
>> 
>> Mark
> 
> Thats weirdsville Mark. Have you attempted to move the machines other 
> axis's? Since z on a mill is commonly homed first to get it up the post 
> and out of the way, maybe the x and y can still be moved from the 
> keyboard? On a lathe, x is first to home just to get it backed out and 
> out of the way, or at least thats how I have mine sequenced.
> 
> Time to get out the scope from the sounds of this.  Does the breakout 
> board have tally led's on its outputs?  They might be helpfull. If the 
> bob doesn't, scope time.
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Possibly useful keyboards

[Marcus Bowman]

On 31 Jul 2018, at 17:38, Gene Heskett wrote:

>  So I wouldn't mind either a flat membrane keyboard

I have a roll-up flat membrane keyboard on one of my Linux PCs and it works ok, 
but I find it does not like fast typing.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

On 24 Jul 2018, at 21:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:

> I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
> example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
> a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.
> 
This sounds like  what VCarve Pro does. It asks if you want to rough out using 
a larger diameter cutter, then generates two programs via the post-processor: 
one for the roughing operation (using the large tool), and the other for the 
finishing (with a smaller tool for the fine detail). The user chooses and 
specifies both tools before the software calculaltes the paths.
It generally works ok, although I have run the odd job where there are 
artefacts left by the roughing cut which are not fully removed using the 
smaller cutter.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

On 24 Jul 2018, at 07:33, Chris Albertson wrote:

>   What I want and am looking for is a kind of conversational system
> where I can walk up to the mill and use it for something simple with no
> need for g-code.   I'm going back and forth on what would be best.
> 

I use a library of self-written general-purpose programs for the everyday 
common tasks. These have a parameter block at the start where I can quickly 
modify sizes and speeds, so that the program can be modified in the editor for 
the task on the mill at the time.
It's half a step removed from conversational programming, but makes most simple 
tasks easy and quick to do (like taking a pass along an edge, cutting a 
rectangular perimeter (with or without radiused corners or ends), cutting a 
rectangular or circular pocket, cutting an arc on the end of a workpiece, 
executing multiple surfacing passes to flatten a face,engrave a scale, etc, etc.
This means (a) I only have to load one of these programs to do most 
straightforward tasks, and (b) I can easily edit the guts of several routines 
together, or add additional code, to make a more complex program quite quickly.
For anything with more complex curves or multiple perimeters and pockets, I use 
the CAD (VCarve Pro).

>   But my
> first try will be a hand held box with a control wheel and an LCD screen
> and so buttons.   It can completely by-pass LCNC


I used to think I would need manual knobs as well as the computer control of 
the machine, but in 15 years or so, I have never had the need.
We each have our own style, though, and I have a friend who has a gantry router 
and he often moves it manually.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

I write a lot of native G-Code programs, often using my library of  G-Code 
routines, and coding directly using a text editor on the Linux machine. 

As for CAD programs, I'm running Vectric VCarve Pro, on a W7 PC. I have 
slightly customised the post-processor, so VCarve gives me a ready-to-use file 
for the LinuxCNC machine.
Those programs run fine as they are, but I often tweak them, mainly to make 
some values into parameters so that I can experiment with cutting and 
traversing speeds. That way, if I am making a batch of components, I can 
quickly optimise the speed and the finish. It's quicker than having to run the 
CAD post-processor every time.

I sometimes use Illustrator, and/or the scanner, on my Mac, to create a shape, 
then put that into VCarve Pro on the W7 PC. I have probably done less of that 
as VCarve has improved from version to version. I used to use Cut2D, but that 
was before I upgraded to VCarve.

The Mac is the machine of choice; the W7 is there to run VCarve Pro, and the 
Linux PC is attached to the mill.

I have, and used to use, Mach3 a lot, but it lacks the programming structures 
of LinuxCNC and that limits it severely in my opinion. I can't compare either 
with Mach4. I like programming, so LinuxCNC suits me well.

For 3D CAD, I use Inventor, but that has no output for CNC, so I will probably 
migrate to Fusion360 next, when I get time to familiarise myself with that.

Marcus



On 24 Jul 2018, at 05:17, John Dammeyer wrote:

> Mini Poll here if possible
> I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to make the 
> G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do like I have 
> with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
> Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
> 
> So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] no news any more?

[Marcus Bowman]

I have not seen anything either, here in the UK.
Maybe everyone is either making BBQs or watching the World Cup football?
In my opinion, there is too much danger in a BBQ, and I never understood 
football anyway, so I'm painting walls outside, and machining compound angles 
in aluminium blocks when its too hot.

Marcus

On 8 Jul 2018, at 06:24, TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> OK here in Penang, My.
> I check almost everyday.
> Must be local problem
> 
> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018, 12:06 Peter Blodow  wrote:
> 
>> How come I have not read any news for 5 days now? Is there something
>> wrong with servers etc., or are there really no problems around??
>> Peter
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Wire feeder on screw forging machine

[Marcus Bowman]

There are quite a few videos on youTube showing simple wire feed mechanisms 
using an Arduino as a controller. Searching for 'wire cutter Arduino' gives a 
list. You may get some good ideas there, for simple feeding mechanisms. Whether 
you need an Arduino is another matter, but the mechanics are all there.

Marcus

On 2 Jul 2018, at 17:41, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

> Hello to all.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how to design the simplest possible wire feeder
> like the one on this video: https://youtu.be/_pjbwFM1LM4?t=28s
> 
> As you can see the wire comes to a stop (a simple bolt with a nut) so I
> suppose the feeding mechanism has some sort of slipping capability once the
> wire has reached the stop.
> 
> Is there any common and simple mechanism for this purpose? I've never
> really worked with machines like this so I'm curious about what the
> simplest solution could be. I can imagine several ways to do it but I don't
> want to re invent the wheel.
> 
> Thanks as always!
> 
> Leonardo.
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Re: [Emc-users] Got LCNC into a corner, painted in you might say

[Marcus Bowman]

Gene,

Knowing you have more experience of tricky tasks than I have, and seeing not 
much response to your question, I offer the following observations:

I have forgotten the exact reason you are dealing, in places, with the 
locations of the co-ordinate systems (#5222 etc), but my inclination is always 
to avoid this, where possible, by using G92, or G10 L20 or similar.

I try to use named variables for any parameters which will have to  change when 
I next run or edit the program.
I use a lot of subroutines and pre-prepared program fragments, so my work cycle 
often looks like:
load a pre-prepared program or subroutine; edit it to change speeds, sizes or 
whatever; then save. Reload the program and run it.
With that kind of cycle, I need everything that could possibly change to be in 
a block of parameters at the start.
I do this even with programs generated by post-processors (like the Vectric 
programs). I edit the program to define speeds using parameters, for example, 
so that I can experiment quickly with different materials. I make the guts of 
whole pograms into subroutines, etc. It doesn't take long to do, but frequently 
repays the effort.

I often use subroutines which begin with G92 X0 Y0; do something centred on the 
(temporary) X0 Y0; then end with G92.1
I also keep track of X and Y throughout, by using named parameters and use 
parameters as counters for currentDepth, currentX, etc. That way, I seldom know 
what the actual co-ordinate value is, but mostly don't need to.

I can't imagine rewriting the P1 map. I have done it, but can't imagine why it 
would be necessary in reality.

I'm being a bit provocative, here, but hope the above might help stimulate a 
line of thought which might help.
Apologies if it seems like asking you to suck eggs. It's not meant that way. It 
is meant to push your thinking sideways.

Marcus

On 28 May 2018, at 10:36, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Sunday 27 May 2018 23:54:57 Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
>> On Sunday 27 May 2018 19:37:04 Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 27 May 2018 17:16:50 Gene Heskett wrote:
 Giveing up on the jig brace, I decided to make a wooden one as it
 doesn't have to last till the rapture. I laid out a circle, then
 contemplated how to draw this circle such that its position was
 offset half a mm for each time that it was drawn, until I got the
 proper depth of cut.
 
 Without doing the arcgenm18 routine in 50 pieces of code, I tried
 to make a sub routine out of it by manipulating the y offset, but
 whilew it moved, it didn't want to do it in a straight line up the
 y axis, but wandered off the the right and got smaller. I moved
 vars around, but that failed similarly. So I got this wild hair to
 move the co-ordinate, then I could re-use the same subroutine
 until I'd hit the offset I wanted. But I stopped it as it was
 starting the 2nd semi-circle, which means the y coordinate had
 been moved what I thought was half a mm.
 
 But on further study of the docs, neither G10 L2 or G10 L20 take
 anything but absolute values.
 
 So this means I have to get the current y coordinate from the
 memory for P1's map, add my small var, and rewrite y with a G10 L2
 y new value.
 
 Except I moved it 40mm with the first command, and now it says the
 first mpve will exceed the y limits. Then I noticed the - sign was
 missing too for y.
 
 Is this a place where I have to g53 g0 x0 y0 z0
 and then rewrite the p1 map to all balls at that location? A
 shutdown, restart and rehome has not fixed it. Then reset y for
 each pass with G10 L2 P1 y[#5222 + 0.5000] mm mode!
 
 And end the program with either a saved initial #5222, or another
 g53 etc etc?
>>> 
>>> And I just found out why the corrections applied are so gross as to
>>> disable lcnc. The value stored is in #5222(G54Y) is in inches,
>>> despite its being in G21 mode. So I need to divide my var for
>>> increments by 25.4 to make it inches.  Sigh... Sure as hell there
>>> ought to be a way to walk a D pattern in a while loop without
>>> unrolling it to a 50kb file.
>>> 
>>> Funny part is it looks great in the back plot.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>> 
>> To those who wondered, its working and the poplar block is carved, and
>> while I haven't carved brass in it yet, its quite a bit more rigid.
>> I'm out of clamps so the tailstock is on a ladder step nearby, I bent
>> up a 6" piece of 1/8" alu panel that gently holds the slug into a r8
>> driven by the table, so I think its going to work better than anything
>> else I've tried, lots better. I wound up sampling #5222 into a global
>> var and referencing that, the didling it to offset the tool a wee bit
>> for each pass thru the while loop, gradually digging the U channel
>> deeper. And restoring the Y offset by putting the global var back into
>> #5222 as it wraps up the job.
> typu correction above.
>> To Jon; I had to reset the 

Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Motors

[Marcus Bowman]

On 26 May 2018, at 16:13, Jon Elson wrote:

>> 
> That motor can produce rated torque down to near zero speed.  But, a belt 
> reduction INCREASES torque as you lower spindle speed.  In some cases like 
> heavy fly cutting, face mills, boring, and drilling with large diameter 
> drills, you need that extra torque.  

+1 to that. Lack of low speed torque is a real pain. IMHO belts and pulleys win 
every time, at low speeds.
On my mill I have a 2HP motor with an electronic speed control. I have a 
flycutter mounted on a 250mm/10 inch faceplate on the spindle of the mill, and 
it won't cut toffee at its properly rated cutting speed. I can see the 
electronics trying to compensate for the reduction in speed at the cutter 
bites, but the low torque just can't cope with the loss of momentum on even a 
relatively shallow cut.
On the manual lathe, with a constant speed 1425rpm 1 HP motor, the same 
flycutter on the same faceplate, and the spindle set at low speed on the 
pulleys, that cutter will mangle its way through anything at all without 
blinking or slowing. And that's without backgear.
Electronic speed control is much more convenient, especially when the speed can 
be controlled by LinuxCNC, but low speed performance is a problem, I find.
If a servo will solve that problem, I would happily fit one tomorrow.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] Home switches.

[Marcus Bowman]

> 
> And that brings up the third question about a 4th axis.  If you have one, do
> you tend to put it on the left just like a lathe spindle or on the right?
> Any reason for the preference?  Often there are tool changers on the left so
> it makes more sense to have the 4th on the right.

My mill is a benchtop-style arrangement, rather than a Bridgeport-style knee 
mill.
My 4th Axis is based on a large diameter rotary table, mounted on its side.
I always put my 4th axis on the left, because if I put it on the right, it 
would foul the quill handle, if I used it. Separate quill feed is manual, and 
although I can't recall the last time I used that handle in conjunction with 
the 4th axis, it's always a possibility. 
That position means feeds along the work at -ve X, which is not intuitively 
convenient, but I live with it.

Marcus
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Re: [Emc-users] Very low backlash ballscrews [Was: Re: How does this work?

[Marcus Bowman]

I agree:

> It is not a quarter as hard to repack a ball nut as a lot of people make it
> out to be.
> If you can repack the bearings on your bicycle, you will have no problem.
> You can probably find good general instructions for repacking a ball nut in
> the steering section of your autos service manual.
> 
> If you are not careful the balls can get pushed out of place when putting
> the nut back on the screw.
> If this is a problem, you can turn a plastic mandrel with an OD just shy of
> the Minor Diameter of the screw.
> Insert this into the nut and use it to transfer the nut to the screw.

If you have to cut the screw to machine to length, the additional section of 
screw can be used to hold the balls in place. If both ends of screw and 
cut-off-screw-end are reasonably flat and square, rotating the cut off part 
lets you line up the tracks, and you can wind the screw out as the cut-off part 
is held against the end as though it was one continuous length, so you end up 
with the screw free, and the cut-off part inside the nut, acting as a mandrel. 
I can do that on two of my axes. The third requires a plain mandrel as Kurt 
suggests. 
> 
> Those cheap ball nuts are nothing to be afraid of. They are dead simple and
> not much you can do wrong.
> You will almost certainly find that you nuts run much more smoothly after
> repacking them.
> And for me at least, the peace of mind that comes from knowing the nuts are
> good is well worth the 10 minutes it takes to check them.
> 

> Also, if you have a screw/nut that is oversized, it is fairly easy to get
> oversized balls to take up the slack.
> 
When a ball nut has been in use for so long that the backlash has increased, 
oversize balls are one way of returning it to a more reasonable fit. My 
supplier holds large stocks of balls of different sizes fro that purpose.
One other point:
I use THK nuts which are like sections of rectangular bar. They have a flat 
bottom with 4 tapped holes for securing the nut to a flat surface (so the 
flange is effectively at right angles to the ones shown in most catalogues. 
Sadly, that means they are in short supply, and therefore not cheap. They are, 
however, very easy to fit on the saddle of a mill. I use a little platform with 
a turned spigot to fit the usual hole provided for a standard leadscrew nut, 
allowing some rotation for self-alignment.
See:
https://tech.thk.com/en/products/pdf/en_a15_282.pdf
square nuts type BNT.

Marcus
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[Emc-users] Simplifying Axis display

[Marcus Bowman]

I find the as-supplied display of co-ordinates in Axis much more cluttered than 
in early versions, and would like to simplify it considerably.
In fact, I'd like it to show just this info:

current X, Y Z and A co-ordinates
current velocity

I can't see an obvious or easy way to do this. Is there somewhere I can specify 
what I want, and/or suppress some of what is currently shown?
I find the clutter of multiple co-ordinate systems obscures the backplot, and 
that is not handy when I'm trying to spot problems with the toolpath before I 
hit RUN.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

[Marcus Bowman]

On 8 Apr 2018, at 06:05, Chris Albertson wrote:
> 
> Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to convert
> Gerber files to g-code files.

The video mentions CopperCAM, but the CopperCAM site says it takes in some 
Gerber files, but doesn't give enough details of the "output files".

> 
> Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill to route
> copper,

Engraving tools are cheap and work quite well on pcb material.

And dust extraction is a must. The guy in the video really needs to think about 
abrasive particles entering his airways.


> Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through and a few
> micro side drill bits for the through holes.
> 
> BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of time by
> using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty space.  No need to
> mill all that copper away.

+1 to that, unless the circuit demands low inter-layer capacitance.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Making a steper pulse generator, would like comments

[Marcus Bowman]

On 31 Mar 2018, at 04:20, Gene Heskett wrote:

> 
> Just one question? Can you build this for less than you can buy it from 
> Mesa?  Or Pico? If you time is worth a buck an hour, its a slim chance 
> of yes. Very slim. Otherwise get it from a supplier that supports us.

+1 for that.
I'm all for avoiding reinventing the wheel.

Marcus

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Re: [Emc-users] G61, G61.1, and M0

[Marcus Bowman]

First,  the joint 0 following error is related to your ini settings, and the 
max speed or acceleration are set at too great a value for the axis generating 
the error.

At first sight, the code looks ok, but I would try making # a global 
variable #<_cnt>

G10 L20 P1

might work better, as co-ordinate system numbering starts at 1 for G54

Marcus
 
On 18 Mar 2018, at 05:27, Ralph Stirling wrote:

> Why oh why does my looping program zip
> right through my moves even with G61.1
> exact stop, and an M0 at the end of the loop?
> Not a single move gets completed:
> 
> Here is my test program (testing my polar
> coordinate machine, doing 90 degree rotations):
> 
> (AXIS,stop)
> (AXIS,hide)
> # = 0
> O100 while [# LE 4]
> 
> (print, start)
> G61.1
> G1 X15.0 Y30.0 F1000.0
> 
> G1 X20.0 Y20.0 
> 
> # = #<_x>
> # = #<_y>
> # = [#<_x> * #<_x>]
> # = [#<_y> * #<_y>]
> # = [# + #]
> # = [atan[#<_y>]/[#<_x>]]
> # = [# - 90.0]
> #   = [sqrt[#]]
> # = [cos[#]]
> # = [sin[#]]
> # = [# * #]
> # = [# * #]
> 
> G1 X# Y#
> G10 L20 P0 X# Y#
> (print, var 5222=#5222)
> (print, end)
> M0
> 
> # = [# + 1]
> (print,cnt=#)
> 
> O100 endwhile
> M2
> %
> 
> The output I get is:
> 
> Emit interp-run
> Emit interp-run
> start
> var 5222=-40.00
> end
> cnt=1.00
> start
> var 5222=-80.00
> end
> cnt=2.00
> start
> var 5222=-120.00
> end
> cnt=3.00
> start
> var 5222=-160.00
> end
> cnt=4.00
> start
> var 5222=-200.00
> end
> cnt=5.00
> 
> joint 0 following error
> 
> With nary a pause.  It never made the first G1
> move.  I thought G61.1 would make it do each
> move completely before proceeding, and I thought
> an M0 stops until you press "go" again.  What's up?
> 
> And, of course, this is simply a hindrance in figuring
> out why the G10 L20 isn't working as expected.
> 
> Thanks to anybody awake that can clue me in.
> -- Ralph
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Re: [Emc-users] Glueing a pulley to a shaft.

[Marcus Bowman]

Last time I spoke to the technical chaps at Loctite, they emphasised that 
mating components should be a light press fit, or at least an interference fit, 
because Loctite works at the molecular level, across the shear plane between 
the surfaces. That arrangement provides maximum strength.
Although page 5 of the document claims  it 'fills gaps', the illustration 
reveals these are simply the interstitial spaces in an interference fit.

What about a key?
Mind you; a margin of 100% (from your calculation) is not bad at all, given 
that 13Nm is the peak torque.

Marcus

On 8 Mar 2018, at 23:28, andy pugh wrote:

> I need to connect a toothed-belt pulley to a motor shaft.
> 
> (I have burned out the motor on the Z of my mill, so need to fit a
> replacement pulley to the replacement motor).
> 
> The previous pulley was attached by a cunning taper-lock. I bored the
> pulley bore with a taper, and made a thin tapered sleeve that was
> pushed in by a screw and washer in the threaded hole in the end of the
> shaft.
> That has worked very well. Too well, I really can't get it apart.
> 
> For the new motor I am thinking of just Loctiting the pulley on.
> 
> The new motor is rated 3.4Nm.
> 
> A case-study here
> http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/us/content_data/356776_9294_LT5021_Retaining_Brochure_F.pdf
> calculates 225Nm for a 32mm shaft.
> The torque goes with the square, so (225 / 32^2) * 11^2 gives me 26Nm
> for my 11mm shaft.
> 
> A very similar motor from the same manufacturer is rated 3.4Nm and has
> a peak torque of 13Nm.
> 
> I wonder if that is enough margin?
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Where are you getting R8 square collets for driving taps?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 7 Mar 2018, at 06:28, Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 07.03.18 00:58, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> And the grub screws stayed tight?
> 

I made a whole tapping system for my pillar tool, for small taps, using the 
4-grubscrew technique, and I have used it successfully for years. I only use it 
for threads below M3, though, and only for manual tapping. One flaw is that 
although the grubscrews stay fairly tight, most of the time, they do have a 
tendency to work loose because of the angle of the twisting force, which is 
roughly parallel to the flat of the squares, at the tangent point of the 
imaginary same-diameter circle.
Another more annoying problem is that there is nothing much to stop the tap 
from tending to slip along its long axis, as the screws slacken slightly. What 
they need is a conical hole, a vee or a flat with shoulders ground into the 
shank, to stop the sliding.
For larger taps, that would be easier to arrange, but I suspect the forces 
involved with those larger taps would tend to magnify the problems.

Is the answer not to use a thread mill? Expensive - yes - but more controllable 
and easier to cut the thread in several passes, I think. I've no experience, 
except of looking at my shockingly expensive thread mill cutter and wondering 
about its life expectancy.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Need to select a timing belt type and size

[Marcus Bowman]

On 18 Feb 2018, at 23:53, Chris Albertson wrote:
> So I need to select a belt type and size.   My initial guess at this a the
> GT2, 3mm pitch and 9mm wide.
> 


I am planning to renew my belts after some 13 years fairly heavy use 
(ballscrews now worn), so I too have been pondering this problem.
The SDP/SI site at 
http://www.sdp-si.com/products/details/timing-belt-detail.php#gt2
 tells me that:

The PowerGrip GT3 Belt Drive System is the newest design and offers additional 
benefits over GT2. The improved construction and material compound provides 
superior load bearing capacity. The GT2 Belts are being phased out and replaced 
by the new GT3 Belt Drive System

Marcus

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Re: [Emc-users] non-contact position sensors, surprisingly good performance.

[Marcus Bowman]

On 16 Feb 2018, at 04:11, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Thursday 15 February 2018 22:23:34 Chris Albertson wrote:
> 
>> I'm slowing getting set up to test one of those sensors.  I just 3d
>> printed a holder.   The darn thing uses M12x1 threads so I had to
>> order a 12x1 tap 6 weeks from China and the tap arrived. 
> 
> 12mmx1mm?. Thats pretty fine, way finer than a 1/2 SAE. And close to 
> being made of un-obtainium I'd expect.

The x1 thread series is not infrequently used. Although M6 x 1 is probably the 
most common, M8, M10, M12 and M14 x 1 are not uncommon. M8 x 1 and M10 x 1 
bolts and nuts can both obtained without too much trouble, but not in your 
average ironmonger or DIY store.
M12 x 1 and M14 x 1 threads are used on some lathe accessories, although I 
think that may be to try to dissuade workshop owners from making matching parts 
instead of buying them. There is, for example, a set of commercially available 
small ball bearing tailstock centres with replaceable/interchangeable nose 
shapes, and that has an M14 x 1 thread. The quality of manufacture is not good, 
though, but the M14 x 1 probably dissuades most folks from making the nose 
pieces (or the whole thing) in the workshop.
The Unimat PC has an M14 x 1 mandrel nose thread, and the Unimat SL has an M12 
x 1 nose thread. Both have been widely sold for quite a long time, and there 
are lots of matching accessories like chucks. 
Personally, I use the x1 thread series quite often, especially M10 and M12 x 1 
which I use to get a fine thread for adjustable fittings.
I have a pair of Dormer E105 M12 x 1 geometric taps which are a joy to use. I 
bought them many years ago for a regular batch job, and they were very, very 
expensive because, at that time, we were still in the old imperial age and 
anything other than metric coarse was jolly difficult to get. This morning, I 
see M12 x 1 'standard' hand taps in the MSC catalogue at £28.89 + VAT each, 
which is way cheaper than they used to be. Maybe that's the influence of the 
Far Eastern low cost versions. Geometric taps in the x1 series are still 
difficult to get.
There's an M20 x 1 die in the drawer which I use for one job. Chinese 
manufacture, because I could not find another source anywhere.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D printed CNC conversion for Sieg X2

[Marcus Bowman]

On 11 Feb 2018, at 12:29, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> Another reason to get one of those 3d printer things is that I don't have 
> a thread protector for the 2.25x8 spindle on my Sheldon. I've considered 
> making one out of alu, but putting that in contact with alu doesn't seem 
> like a Good Thing. I saw a you-tube video where someone made one out of 
> pla for a smaller 6" craftsman, and expanding that for the 2.25" seems 
> like a good idea.  And it wouldn't take a huge printer to do that. 
> Complete with some pretty aggressive  knurling to get a good hand grip 
> on it. 
> 

There was an article on a similar nose protector for a different lathe, 
recently, in one of the magazines. I have a pukka manufacturer nose protector 
for my lathe, as part of a collet set, but the plastic would be gentler on the 
threads. And a good excuse for a 3D printer, too.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] possibly silly code question

[Marcus Bowman]

On 30 Jan 2018, at 22:58, Gene Heskett wrote:

> I'll use a  bit of this code to locate the backplate centerhole, then the 
> data logged by this, to drill/enlarge the boltholes in this backplate 
> just enough bigger that I can skid it around to as close to zero run-out 
> as I can get it.
> 


When it's clocked to your satisfaction, will you drill through the backplate 
into the chuck and insert a dowel or three?
 
Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] Question re the 3 jaw on this Sheldon

[Marcus Bowman]

On 28 Jan 2018, at 07:00, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 27 January 2018 22:03:33 Eric Keller wrote:
> 
>> Bison maybe?  Currently considered to be pretty good, and priced
>> accordingly.
> 
> So I've noted already.
> 
> All the Bisons I see today have a brass logo button inlaid in the face. 
> That does not exist and no place it was exists on this one. 
> 
I have a TOS 4 jaw self-centring chuck for my mill (lives on a plate, and faces 
upwards, for use holding cylindrical stock facing upwards. That's Polish, but, 
like the Bison, has a round recessed glued-in badge. The quality is ok. 
Interestingly. my impression is that there arefewer Polish chucks for sale at 
the moment, because the centre of low cost production seems now to be India. 
Don't let me get started on 'quality'.
I have a Burnerd Griptru chuck on my lathe. I bought it new in 1975, and I 
would defend the quality and accuracy against all comers. It's an adjustable 
device which uses 3 conical adjustment screws in the body to bear on a loose 
fitting backplate, and although it holds its accuracy on everyday tasks, it can 
be adjusted to within 0.001mm for any given diameter (let's say half a tenth, 
in old money). This supplier has a useful conversion kit for standard chucks up 
to 5 inches
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Adjustable_Backplate.html
so I suppose you could make a device like that. It's one step up from 
adjustment with a machinist's hammer.

Marcus

> What I am fighting with has all the earmarks of its being pulled out of 
> shape. Bolted to the backing plate, the body is not only eccentric, but 
> apparently out of round. Move the dial to the face, after refacing the 
> plate, and the thickness, plate to face, is around 8 thou out. I can 
> paper shim between it and the plate and help it, but is such a wild 
> variation just in turning it 45 degrees, 5 thou or so just between jaw 
> channels, that seems to repeat, per face section with some wobble 
> superimposed on that. To get it centered, I am going to have to remove 
> the plate, taking it to the mill, and enlarge the bolt holes by 15 thou 
> just so I can take a deadblow and center it, sorta, on the OD. The bolts 
> are a very close fit. The are places for 6 in the back of the chuck, but 
> only holes for 3 in the backplate.
> 
> I keep coming back to two things, 1. the scroll is very lub sensitive, 
> its its swimming in vactra, it takes a hand on each end of the key to 
> adjust it, from any pinion. 2. Even with 10 thou or more off the OD of 
> the register, the bolts won't let it move far enough to get the body 
> concentric, maybe 6 or 7 thou total until I enlarge the holes.
> 
> When I wanted a 4 jaw indy, I went for a $89 plate, and the $114 8".
> 
> I have it dialed in pretty good, its within .001 of round, and once the 
> plate was faced, within .001 axially.
> 
> But this one is so far out of round I hardly know where to start. So I'll 
> start by switching stones in the grinder, and just barely kiss the 
> plate, maybe taking another 2 thou off, and see if I can bolt the plate 
> down on the mill, use my hole locator code to find the holes in the 
> chuck, and make all 6 holes in the plate new and 15-20 thou bigger but 
> based on the chuck, not the existing holes in it. If that won't let me 
> true it up, I guess I'll throw real money at it.
>> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 10:01 PM, Gene Heskett  
> wrote:
>>> Greetings;
>>> 
>>> I can't quite identify it. It has a weakly acid etched label on a
>>> face but its well worn, and I can only read "made in Poland" for
>>> certainty.
>>> 
>>> Its a 3 jaw, scroll, 2 piece jaws, and about 7", maybe 7.25", in
>>> diameter. Looks and feels nice & snug yet, but true it isn't even
>>> with a refaced backing plate.
>>> 
>>> Someone here once named it, but I can't seem to find it in my list
>>> corpus here & now.
>>> 
>>> I am trying to make it run true, despite a slightly bent spindle, by
>>> refacing the backing plate, and find I am essentially spinning my
>>> wheels.
>>> 
>>> So I am debating replaceing it as this backing plate is a bit thin
>>> for my first complaint.
>>> 
>>> But I need to know if these Polish made chucks are good to start
>>> with.
>>> 
>>> So please tell me what you know about this one from no more than
>>> I've supplied above.
>>> 
>>> Thanks everybody.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>> --
>>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>>> Genes Web page 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] G76 tool path not behaving as expected (bad code or bad expectations?)

[Marcus Bowman]

On 16 Jan 2018, at 23:16, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:

> We are tying to cut some internal Acme threads on our lathe.   We have an 
> internal Acme 8-pitch single point tool.  From the edge of the backside of 
> tool to the tip of the cutting point is 0.490”.  The major diameter of our 
> hole to thread is 0.506.  So, you can see there is very little clearance 
> here.  
> 
> When we run G76 the backside of the tool slams into part when it retracts 
> after the cut.  We are currently cutting (breaking is a better word) wax 
> until we are confident that something good will result.  
> 
> This causes our tool to crash into the part when it tried to retract after 
> the cut:
> G0 Z0.100
> G0 X0.248
> G76 P0.125 Z-0.750 I0.005 J0.005 K0.0725 R2.0 Q14 L0 E0.0725 H2
> 
> In trying to measure things in the backplot window (not easy to do 
> accurately) it appears like the tool is moving back nearly the full thread 
> depth (0.075”).  In this image the distance from where the tip of the tool is 
> on the first retract line up to the first cut line which is the lower edge of 
> that white band is about .075”:  https://www.bgp.nu/~tom/pub/IMG_5289.jpg. 
> Considering we only have ~0.010 this clearly wont work.   
> 
I have no direct experience of using G76, but this problem reminded me a little 
of the retraction distance settings on peck drilling canned cycles in a milling 
machine, where the program response to a retract distance in, say, the G83 
command depends on whether there has been a previous G99 (retract to the R 
value used in the G83) or a G98 (ignore the R and retract to the original Z 
value used before the G83 was begun.
 
> It seems like the Drive Line is where the tool should come back to on every 
> pass.  If it did it would always have clearance (assuming it had clearance to 
> get in the hole in the first place).  But that is not what is happening. From 
> the GCode reference of G76:  
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g76
> 
The documentation does say the tool should return to the drive line, but I 
don't immediately understand the diagram, which shows a different retract after 
each pass (the same your your own screen shot shows). This is either being done 
as a result of a previous command like a G99 or G98, or the G76 is not doing 
what it is supposed to do.
I note the connection between G76 and G33, but Gene knows more about G33.

> This is youtube video showing the tool hitting the back side on retraction, 
> twice in fact before the wax snaps off:  
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxHFyVMocpU 
> 
> 
Wax is a good idea. Must get some. I sometimes use plastic, but the wax looks 
even softer.

> In typical threading the tool size, thread depth, and initial bore diameter, 
> are such that this problem may not be noticeable.  

Often the case, with this kind of problem.

> But with an Acme thread where the size of the tool and the depth of the 
> thread (0.0725 in our case) leaves very little room for error.  So is the G76 
> code broken or is there something fundamental we are misunderstanding?
> 
This is an important cycle, so it would be good to understand what's happening 
here.

Marcus
.
> -Tom
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