from:"Russ Sciville"

Re: [EVDL] Repairing 500e with Fiat pulling out

2020-01-09 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

 The Fiat 500e is soon to be launched in Europe so I doubt that support or 
parts will dry up. This is the car that the boss of Fiat is quoted as saying 
was a compliance car only and he didn't want to build it. As EV's are becoming 
THE car to own in Europe, I wonder if he is eating his words yet.
Fiat 500 electric 2020: design details, price, specs and release date

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Fiat 500 electric 2020: design details, price, specs and release date

Everything we know so far about the Italian marque’s first mass-production EV
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On Thursday, 9 January 2020, 08:33:41 GMT, Chris Richard via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 
All,

I've been considering buying a used 500e. Somehow, it escaped me until today 
that Fiat is discontinuing the gas 500s. It doesn't seem like the company as a 
whole would be far behind. They always bitched about having to provide the 500e 
as a compliance car. I'm pretty apprehensive that if I do get one of these cars 
and something goes wrong with it in two or three years, I won't be able to get 
it repaired. Or if something goes seriously wrong with the battery, I won't be 
able to make the warranty stick.
On the other hand, I'm in Southern California, where there are, compared to 
some other places, a lot of people driving 500es. That must be a market for 
somebody.
I've leased two. I really like them, and they're much cheaper used than other 
EVs. But I'm afraid I might be buying problems.
Any thoughts? 
Thanks.

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Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 Thermal Imaging Opinions?

2019-10-03 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

 So good to read that you found it was caused by being simply forgetful. I go 
over all the terminals two or three times as it is so easy to miss one in a 
couple of hundred.
Previous posts mentioned using Noalox paste. I used to use it as advised on 
various forums but have been burning out the odd Orion BMS inputs over the past 
few years on my two home builds.For the recent rebuild of the traction battery 
and again repaired BMS I cleaned up the connections with wire wool and alcohol. 
You could see on the links where the contact had been poor and I suppose caused 
a rise in voltage across the sensing circuit.They have been faultless since.
It is possible that the Noalox had become separated in the bottle but as a long 
term industrial electrician who has never used the stuff before, I decided to 
use the tried and tested method of having bright clean (tight) connections.
On Thursday, 3 October 2019, 00:19:03 BST, Mr. Sharkey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Well, it looks like this issue may have been one of my own making. 
When I went to remove the cell interconnect strap, both bolts into 
the cell terminals were "just snug", not tight. Apparently I got 
distracted when completing the BMS card swap, and didn't torque the bolts.

The straps are made up of four .025" "leaves" of copper stock, with a 
little hickey bend in the center for mechanical relief between the 
cells. A sleeve of heat shrink tubing  protects the center of the 
completed strap, and holds it together for assembly on the pack. This 
was one that I had disassembled to repair, probably because it had 
been intentionally bent by the previous owner to do something that it 
wasn't intended to do.

When I took it off, it didn't look at all unusual on the top, and the 
bottom looked fine, it had been in complete contact with the cell 
terminals by the appearance of the anti-corrosion grease.

Inside was a different matter. I cut the heat shrink off and found this:

http://www.westlanetv.org/~sharkey/evgfx/Hot_Strap.jpg

The four leaves from right-to-left are top-to-bottom, respectively, 
and the bottom of the photo is the end that was connected to the 
too-warm cell in the IR photo.

I wish I had been able to use some brand name green abrasive pads 
instead of the dollar-store pretend ones, cleaning the discoloration 
out of the straps would have been much easier. Afterwards, I hit them 
with real white Scotchbrite, then gave them a shine with Brasso for 
good measure. A wash with denatured alcohol, and I put them back on 
the cells. I'm going to go all over the battery and check all the 
fasteners for proper torque before putting the cover back on the pack.

In the long term, I think I might build a new strap. If this one was 
so abused that I needed to take it apart to use it again, there may 
be some issues with the leaves not making as complete of a contact 
with each other as new, flat straps made from new stock. I don't have 
any .025 stock, so I use five leaves of .020 copper to build new straps.

I hope to have another session with the IR camera next week to see if 
my efforts to correct this little screw-up have been successful.

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Re: [EVDL] sierraclub.org will hold fed's illegal Attack on Clean Air Act accountable

2019-09-20 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

 I had to reply to this!Am I to understand that air scrubbers situated along 
highways will reduce pollution from vehicles? :-D
That must be a joke. You would reduce more pollution by sealing the disk brakes 
inside a container to catch brake dust which is heavily emitted from ICE's!EV's 
are super clean in this respect as can be seen by comparing the front wheels of 
cars that cover similar distances. EV's never seem to get dirty. 
Russ
On Friday, 20 September 2019, 15:01:04 BST, Haudy Kazemi via EV 
 wrote:  

 If California loses its ability to directly set higher state-level
emissions standards (states rights?) ... expect to see workarounds tried.

The CA agreement with several automakers is one approach. Stationary and
portable air scrubbers* in cities and along highways are another approach
(possibly with incentives to install them). Increased EV rebates are yet
another. These approaches could be funded by a combination of increased
fuel taxes, ICE-specific sales taxes/surcharges, and ICE-specific
registration fees**. There could also be specific sales surcharges for
vehicles or manufacturers that don't meet state standards. No need to ban
any particular vehicle from sale. The market will respond to the price
signals.

The CCL's carbon tax and dividend funding model could be adapted into a
vehicle pollution tax and dividend to keep things revenue-neutral. The
minimum goal for air scrubbing would be to at least maintain current air
quality at each measurement location.

* Tesla Model S and X vehicles with the HEPA air filtration feature might
also qualify as air scrubbers. They're able to reduce PM2.5 pollution both
in the cabin and in the surrounding air.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/putting-tesla-hepa-filter-and-bioweapon-defense-mode-to-the-test

**There is a certain parallel between ICE-specific fees used to pay to
clean the air, and the EV fees added by some states ostensibly to offset
lost fuel tax revenue (the fees generally grossly exceeds the lost revenue,
especially when handled as a flat rate fee in contrast to an
axle-weight-mile fee).

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 23:50 brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
>
> https://www.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2019/09/sierra-club-denounces-trump-administration-s-indefensible-attack-states
> Sierra Club Denounces Trump Administration’s Indefensible Attack on States’
> Freedom to Curb Vehicle Pollution
> September 18, 2019  larisa.manescu @sierraclub.org
>
> WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Donald Trump tweeted out that his Administration
> is revoking the Clean Air Act waiver that allows California to adopt and
> enforce stronger greenhouse gas emissions standards on new cars and light
> trucks than the federal government’s. It also allows the state to require
> auto manufacturers to sell increasing numbers of electric vehicles in the
> state.
>
> EPA’s revocation of California’s waiver has wide-reaching implications - it
> also affects the population in 14 states plus D.C. that have adopted these
> stronger restrictions on pollution from cars, and 11 states that have
> adopted the Zero Emission Vehicle standards.  The clean car standards
> protect the environment and the public health of more than 118 million
> people, upwards of 40 percent of the U.S. population.
>
> In response, Michael Brune, Executive Director of the Sierra Club, released
> the following statement:
>
> “Donald Trump is committing an unprecedented and illegal attack on the
> Clean
> Air Act that will increase pollution in our communities and steal money
> from
> people’s wallets. This move is nothing more than pure vindictiveness from
> an
> Administration set on giving Big Oil a polluting pass at the expense of our
> climate and the well-being of American families.
>
> For four decades, the Clean Air Act has granted states the right to protect
> their residents from dangerous air pollution caused by transportation.
> Trump’s actions will not go unchecked. The Sierra Club will challenge this
> indefensible attack in court and hold this administration accountable.”
>
> About the Sierra Club
>
> The Sierra Club is America’s largest and most influential grassroots
> environmental organization, with more than 3.5 million members and
> supporters. In addition to protecting every person's right to get outdoors
> and access the healing power of nature, the Sierra Club works to promote
> clean energy, safeguard the health of our communities, protect wildlife,
> and
> preserve our remaining wild places through grassroots activism, public
> education, lobbying, and legal action. For more information, visit
> www.sierraclub.org.
> [© sierraclub.org]
>
>
>
> https://www.pressreleasepoint.com/sierra-club-denounces-trump-administrations-indefensible-attack-states-freedom-curb-vehicle
> Sierra Club Denounces Trump Administrations Indefensible Attack on States
> Freedom to Curb Vehicle Pollution
> September 18th, 2019
> ...
>
>

Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

2019-08-21 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

 I have had the pleasure of meeting Cedric a few times whilst at BVS meets.
Such an incredibly clever guy to design those pancake style motors in his 
parents backyard. I use them on my ride on mower conversions and find them 
unburstable despite trying very hard.The design replaces vertical shaft mower 
engines with space to spare.
There certainly are few if any better motors on the market. Not bad for a self 
taught inventor.
Russ
On Wednesday, 21 August 2019, 16:14:49 BST, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  

 On 21 Aug 2019 at 10:15, Paul Compton via EV wrote:

> There are quite a few pictures of this machine on
> http://bikeweb.com/image/tid/57

Ah, so that's it!  Well done.

I remember reading of Cedric Lynch's motor and vehicle many years ago and am 
pleased to hear that he and it are still active.  Lynch is a genius

Thanks for the report.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

2017-05-28 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

I can vouch for the Lynch motor as I use one on my ride on mower.Using three 
90Ah 12v Pb cells it easily cuts for 20 minutes or more at time.
A brilliantly simple but powerful design and I have even met the guy who 
designed it.

  From: Lee Hart via EV 
 To: Lawrence Rhodes ; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List  
 Sent: Sunday, 28 May 2017, 20:09
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.
   
Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the thing.
> Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good success with
> efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at 30mph with a 20 inch
> wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc but I'm willing to
> go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or performance).  I will
> eventually have a shell with solar panels...

Maybe a Lynch motor (Lynch, Lemco, Etek, AGNI, etc.)? They are over 90% 
efficient, and being a DC motor, can be switched straight to the battery for no 
controller losses. Rig a series/parallel setup with switches or relays to get 
12v/24v/48v for speed control; that's also essentially 100% efficient.
-- 
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

2017-01-03 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Yep (from the UK)
Russ

  From: Matthew Quitter via EV 
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
 Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2017, 15:29
 Subject: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
   
Firstly, does anyone get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
and it didn't work.

Thanks,
Matthew

07966 806 727
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161206

2016-12-06 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

> General Motors Co. stands to lose as much as $9,000 on every Chevrolet Bolt
> that leaves a showroom once the all-electric subcompact starts rolling out ...
Probably includes the loss of benefit in kind (kickbacks in the US) that GM 
receives from the oil companies. ;-D

  From: EVDL Administrator via EV 
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
 Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2016, 15:06
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161206
   
On 6 Dec 2016 at 3:24, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

> General Motors Co. stands to lose as much as $9,000 on every Chevrolet Bolt
> that leaves a showroom once the all-electric subcompact starts rolling out ...

I was under the impression that most entirely new cars (regardless of their 
motive source) were money-losers in their first years.  That's supposedly 
why automakers prefer to build "new" models by adapting established bases, 
no?  It keeps the tooling costs lower.

But GM don't whine about new ICEVs losing money, only new EVs.  Gosh, I 
wonder why that is.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] PG's EV Charging Plan Still Angers Industry Players ...

2016-08-04 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Surely no-one would wish a Rapid to operate at 240v 1 ph?
Large currents will require a larger transformer.
All European Rapids will I am sure be operating with 3 phase power. Supply 
cables and volt drop is dramatically smaller.
There will be inevitable extra losses when a 240v single phase supply is 
boosted to 400vDC as most Rapids work at. 

  From: Jim Walls via EV 
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
 Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2016, 21:51
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] PG's EV Charging Plan Still Angers Industry Players ...

44KW at 240V is about 185 amps (likely more because of conversion losses and 
voltage drop).  That makes for very large wire.

 Jim Walls

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Re: [EVDL] 12v tales

2016-06-06 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

I picked up an unused but obsolete Brusa DC-DC power supply some years ago from 
Ebay.
The manual from Brusa recommended that as its parasitic current was so low, you 
could dispense with a 12v battery and leave it online 24/7.
I have never seen this option since on any DC-DC converter or on any 
commercially available EV as they all still seem to be wedded to the old 
limited life Pb technology for controls.
It would be one heck of a weight saving to dispense of the 12v battery.

  From: Roland via EV 
 To: Willie2 ; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
 
 Sent: Monday, 6 June 2016, 15:03
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] 12v tales
   
  
A dead 12 volt battery is the problem when you have your control circuits in 
your EV run by 12 volts.  My first EV that I received back in 1976 and still 
have it today, uses LINE voltage to run all the control circuits.  LINE voltage 
is the same voltage as the main battery.

 

Some control circuits in commercial power devices may use a lower control 
voltage, but this lower voltage is still control by the LINE voltage using a 
transformer.  

 

My EV control voltage was ran off a Honey Well motor generator that was power 
by the main 180 V battery.  On dash control high voltage switch allow to turn 
on the ignition/start circuits to start the motor generator.  This also power 
the power steering pump that also power the hydro boost braking system.  

 

The motor generator also provided 12 to 16 volts DC which was control by a 
standard 12 volt regulator that is use on 12 volt generators.  

 

I have replace this 12 volt control system with a Delco Inverter Alternator 
that is used on ambulances that provides both 12 to 16 V regulated and at the 
same time provide 120 volt 60 hz 5kw for my electric heaters, pumps, and fans. 
Use a 12 volt deep cycle battery that have run for about 10 years.

 

Turn off the DC-DC converters and only used them for back up.  If the DC-DC 
converters fail, I have a back up for them which is a portable 12 volt power 
pack which I only use one time.  

 

Roland 


- Original Message - 

From: Willie2 via EV 

To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 

Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2016 7:20 PM

Subject: [EVDL] 12v tales



I was CONSTANTLY being stranded in my conversions due to dead 12v. 
Mostly, from dead DC-DCs.  I had GaryK, against his advice, rig a jumper 
from 4 LFP cells to the lead 12v.  Dead 12v?  Install the jumper and 
drive home.  Worry about the imbalance later.  Once, when my DC-DC was 
not working, I installed a pair of golf cart batteries in the passenger 
foot well.

I've run the 12v down on my first imiev twice.  Both from inadverntly 
leaving the key on.  For those not familiar with imievs, their idiotic 
design forces one to twist the key against a spring to "crank the 
engine".  Having the key on runs accessories but not the DC-DC.

The Tesla has not stranded me with a dead 12v.  It warns of impending 
failure.  I'm on my 3rd lead 12v in the Tesla.  I have a lithium 12v 
ready to go in for the 4th.
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Re: [EVDL] Ground Faults

2016-06-02 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

I have also noticed this on my CALB powered EV.
It was traced to just one cell by measuring the voltage between the chassis and 
the cells.The leaking volts swung negative on one side and positive on the 
other and when the reading was zero, I had found the faulty one. It was about 
half way down the pack and vanished after I removed the cell, cleaned and 
replaced it.
The cell was visually perfect and like Collin, I wondered if there was some 
imperfection in the plastic to allow leakage. These are 100Ah cells and the 
plastic seems to be very thick but just a tiny sliver of conductive material in 
the case would be enough to cause the fault.

  From: Collin Kidder via EV 
 To: Rick Beebe ; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
 
 Sent: Thursday, 2 June 2016, 14:25
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ground Faults
   
Yes, I've had this same trouble with LiFePO4 cells (Thundersky). I
believe that the cases might be ever so slightly conductive. Also, the
car was in a somewhat salty environment by the ocean and sea mist and
dirt caused a build up of conductive material over the top of
everything. So, I cleaned the tops of all of the cells, especially
around the terminals. This helped quite a bit. I still ended up with a
small amount of ground leakage but much better than it was. I don't
know that it can be very easily fixed for good with Thundersky cells.
I'd probably have to insulate every single cell from each other and
the case.

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 11:56 PM, Rick Beebe via EV  wrote:
> When I had a lead pack in my truck I had rampant leakage from the pack to
> the frame. I think the acid mist and dirt are conductive. I kept trying to
> find the culprit battery by segmenting the pack and the leak would literally
> just move around.
>
> And I had the same problem as you--it was tripping the GFCI outlet. I had to
> take out the GFCI outlet and install a regular one. (The truck had a 110v
> Russco charger in it).
>
> I don't think LiFePo4 cells are as susceptible although I have heard several
> stories of different makes having conductive cases. When I put lithium in
> the truck put all the cells in insulated boxes. If I have a ground fault now
> it will most likely be carbon buildup in the motor.
>
> --Rick
>
>
> On 6/1/2016 11:48 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
>>
>> I mean EVERYTYHING other than the charger.
>> There are contactors on both sides of the pack, so the controller and
>> motor are fully disconnected.
>> I also disconnected the volt/amp meter, and BMS (12v power) as well.
>> Also disconnected the "battery +" wire to the zilla hairball.
>> Unhooked the DC-DC.
>>
>> I'm wondering if I'm getting dirt/damp leakage from the pack to the frame.
>>
>> On Wed Jun 01 18:08:15 PDT 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>>>
>>> Could you be a little more detailed? You disconnected everything from
>>> what? Each other? The battery pack? Etc?  If you have a series wound DC
>>> motor then carbon build up from the brushes can create a path.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>>  Original message From: John Lussmyer via EV
>>>  Date: 6/1/16  7:35 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle
>>> Discussion List  Subject: [EVDL] Ground Faults
>>> Well, I've discovered that my truck has a ground fault of some kind in it
>>> somewhere.
>>> For a long time, I've been charging off the Welder outlet in my shop.  I
>>> recently installed a nice big 240v 60A GFCI breaker for a charging outlet at
>>> the house.
>>> The GFCI trips every time I try to charge.  It doesn't trip if I plug a
>>> welder into the outlet.
>>>
>>> Poking around the pack with a voltmeter, I get some solid voltage
>>> readings to the frame of the truck.
>>> So, I started disconnecting things.  Disconnected everything except the
>>> charger (kinda need that!).
>>> Still trips the GFCI.
>>> Still getting weak voltage readings from various points in the pack.
>>> (Not always consistent, not always constant.)
>>>
>>> Running out of ideas...
>>>
>>> --
>>> Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck!
>>> http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] "CE" mark is no guarantee of safety> needs EU or other approval

2016-04-07 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Regarding the CE mark, China has copied it and if the C and E are very close to 
each other, the product is not marked as complying with the European 
legislation but it is simply a Chinese scam. (Chinese Engineered?)
The European CE mark has the C and E much further apart with a specified gap.
Russ

  From: brucedp5 via EV 
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Thursday, 7 April 2016, 13:15
 Subject: [EVDL] "CE" mark is no guarantee of safety> needs EU or other approval

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Are-other-safety-certifications-accepted-by-cities-insurance-tp4681083.html
]

http://mashable.com/2016/04/02/scoot-e-bike-smart-scooter/#3388aysRxOqz
Diddy, Snoop, Ray J promote hoverboard successor: a folding, electric
scooter
[20160402]  ADARIO STRANGE

[image  
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/11378775_1746069198961840_1559013757_n.jpg
(snoop)
]

It's happening again: A group of high profile celebrities are flocking to a
new electronic transportation gadget, but this is no hoverboard ... if you
can't use the Scoot-E-Bike in the rain, it seems more appropriate to frame
it more in the way we greeted hoverboards — low power, limited range, and
don't ever get the thing wet ... 

We checked with UL, the electronics safety testing lab that introduced a new
safety testing certification in response to the burning hoverboards of the
past few months. Not surprisingly, a UL representative confirmed that, as of
April 1, no device called the Scoot-E-Bike appeared in the UL's database.
However, in the Scoot-E-Bike's promotional video [
https://youtu.be/9YLLPESTfjM
], the device's charger is prominently shown bearing the widely known "CE"
mark. But as we've learned, that mark is no guarantee of safety.

But even the European Commission's own website states that "a CE marking
does not indicate that a product have been approved as safe by the EU or by
another authority." 

So third-party testing by U.S. government-endorsed organizations like UL can
be important, a lesson learned by a number of hoverboard owners whose
devices were not UL-certified ...
[© mashable.com]

For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/

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Re: [EVDL] Time for ‘The Return of the EV’, the power of dark oily forces

2016-01-14 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

I agree with all the below points but you missed a major one.How nice it is to
get into a warm car on these cold frosty mornings. I am having an enforced
month or so in an ICE after my Volt/Ampera's rear quarter was bent by a
speeding driver.It is like going back in time!

From: brucedp5 via EV
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Thursday, 14 January 2016, 8:19
Subject: [EVDL] Time for ‘The Return of the EV’, the power of dark oily forces

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/contributors/2016/01/08/guest-columnist-time-return-ev/78502336/
Guest columnist: Time for ‘The Return of the EV’
January 8, 2016 Rudy Beharrysingh

Over the holidays there were several questionable reports on electric
vehicles. One should never underestimate the power of the dark forces of
oil. Perhaps it is time for the “Return of the EV.”

In 2011 President Obama set a goal for 1 million EV’s to be on the road by
2015. Although we hit 350,000 this year, there are 1 million EV’s on the
road worldwide and the number is growing every day despite low gas prices.

What motivates a person to buy a “limited range” electric car?

1.The political implications of oil and gas are huge. Currently, the U.S.
imports about 9.5 million barrels per day of oil. About 30 percent of this
is from OPEC, with half of this from the Persian Gulf. That’s about 1.4
million barrels per day coming from the Persian Gulf. At a cost of $35 per
barrel that is $50 million per day that we (consumers) send to the Middle
East (on the order of $20 billion per year). And, that’s low compared to
what it used to be. Need I say more…?

2. We are experiencing one of the mildest winters ever on the East coast.
Global warming exacerbates the phenomenon called El Nino. For the first time
in recent history, CO2 concentration has gone above 400 ppm. These excessive
greenhouse gas concentrations lead to unpredictable weather patterns. EVs
emit less pollution and CO2 than their gas counterparts. Plus, they have the
potential to have zero emissions. A large percentage of EV owners also
install some sort of solar system to charge their car.

3. EVs are faster, cooler and cleaner than their gas counterparts. With a
relatively low cost electric vehicle, you get the performance of a high-end
gas car. Now, put that in your tail pipe and smoke it.

4. The range is not really limited. I just come home every day and plug in
my car. “Miss the gas station not, do I!”

5. Yes, there are tax credits to buy these innovative machines. However,
they expire when the manufacturer sells 200,000 electric vehicles.
Regardless, the government incentives to buy EVs are insignificant compared
to the U.S. government’s welfare checks handed to wealthy oil and gas
corporations every year (estimated around $37 billion annually).

6. Drive what you want, but thank your local EV and hybrid driver for doing
their part in cleaning the environment and helping to reduce gas prices.

7. Very little maintenance is required for electric cars. There are fewer
moving parts. While the synchronous moving of pistons up and down and rev of
an internal combustion engine (ICE) are neat and quaint, the electric car
represents a quantum leap in transportation technology.

Moving from driving a gas-powered car to driving an electric vehicle is like
giving up the old rotary phone for a new smart phone. Sure, not everyone is
ready for it, but once they drive one, there is no going back….

For a realistic look at the future of transportation see:
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/09/06/evs-cut-global-gasoline-use-2040/

Rudy Beharrysingh is director of the Mathematics Assistance Center at UNC
Asheville.
[© citizen-times.com]

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http://evdl.org/evln/

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Re: [EVDL] Any recent surveys or focus groups of EV owners?

2015-11-25 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

You can find quite a few of us on https://speakev.com/
  From: Gerald Fittipaldi via EV 
 To: "ev@lists.evdl.org"  
 Sent: Wednesday, 25 November 2015, 1:12
 Subject: [EVDL] Any recent surveys or focus groups of EV owners?

I'm curious to know if there have been any recent surveys or focus groups of 
people who own EVs, and the results. I'm most interested in how people use 
their EVs, their satisfaction in the vehicles, etc. I've tried googling, but 
other than the below Maine survey, I'm coming up empty handed. I couldn't spot 
much on EVDL archives either. Thanks.
http://www.nrcm.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/NRCMEVsurveyresults.pdf

Gerald                         
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: IMPD blames all plugins DPW reneged on chking home L1 outlets 1st

2015-07-14 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

So the Fraternal Order of Police spokesman calls it a mess?
Now I am shocked. They are so hooked on oil like a drug and stuck in the 20th
century.
I am always surprised that in the US their low power 120v domestic supply is
even considered for charging EV's.
In the UK and possibly Europe, the domestic (Granny) EVSE is generally set for
a maximum 10A although the UK plug max is 13A and Europe 16A, both supplying
around 230v.
The US 120v sockets don't have switches which can degrade the socket contacts
if unplugged under power. The pins are also very thin.As a US EVSE on 120v will
need to connected for twice as long as a European one on 230v, it is hardly
surprising that the sockets can burn out.
Mayor Greg Ballard should be supported though for going against the flow in
rolling out EV's but it would not have cost much for all the users to have had
a visit from an electrician to replace existing or install a dedicated supply,
preferably 220vac.
From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Saturday, 11 July 2015, 8:06
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: IMPD blames all plugins DPW reneged on chking home L1
outlets 1st

% It was a Volt pih L1 EVSE that overheated L1 an outlet at an employee's
home which should have been checked by DPW before assigning a plugin to a
city-employee %

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2015/07/09/city-tells-workers-stop-charging-electric-cars-home/29919687/
City tells workers to stop charging electric cars at home
John Tuohy July 9, 2015

[image / Robert Scheer/The Star file photo
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2015/07/09/Indianapolis/Indianapolis/635720537043165334-49-takehome.jpg
Vision Fleet car

tweet
http://twitter.com/John_Tuohy/status/619216852208754689/photo/1
John Tuohy @John_Tuohy
A charred outlet at the home of an IMPD officer who plugged in his Chevy
Volt.
11:49 AM - 9 Jul 2015
]

Short-circuits at five houses, no injuries or fires

Citing safety concerns, the city ordered its police officers and other
employees to stop charging their municipal electric cars at home after a
handful of short circuits were reported.

Officials said electrical circuits blew in the houses of five employees with
take-home Vision Fleet cars. None of the overloads caused fire or injury,
but two damaged electrical outlets, said Department of Public Works
spokesman Scott Manning.

The short circuits likely happened because the cars — Chevrolet Volts,
Nissan Leafs and Fusion Energis — were not charged on dedicated circuits,
Manning said. The hybrids are generally juiced in a home garage 110-volt
three-pronged outlet and require as much electrical current as a
refrigerator or a space heater.

Manning said electricians for Vision Fleet will inspect the homes of each
employee who has take-home cars to make sure the outlets are not shared and
to recommend the rewiring of homes that need it.

“They’ll inspect the wiring to make sure the outlet can handle it,” he said.
“Obviously not everyone knows exactly how their house is wired.”

Fraternal Order of Police Spokesman Rick Snyder called the situation “a
mess.”

Police already were questioning the appropriateness of the fleet because
some of the electric cars were not large enough to hold an officer's
equipment. Now they have to worry about the safety of the cars themselves,
even when they’re parked, he said.

“These vehicles are not working for police,” Snyder said. “Why weren’t we
told about this possibility before? We are talking about plugging a car into
someone’s home. Thank God somebody’s house didn’t burn down.”

Snyder said it was unreasonable for city officials to assume that every
employee knows the intricacies of his home electrical wiring system and
whether a circuit is dedicated.

“It is disheartening and frustrating,” he said.

About 100 employees have take-home electric cars, including police officers
and supervisors for the public works and code enforcement departments.

So far, about 215 cars have been delivered to the city, and 210 others are
expected by the end of the year. None of the electrics cars for police is a
patrol car.

Democratic City-County Councilman Frank Mascari said Vision Fleet offered to
inspect the homes of the employees before the cars were issued but DPW said
it would it do it instead and never followed through.

“They just skipped over that step,” Mascari said.

Manning said home inspections were discussed, but the city and the company
agreed that training and instructions were sufficient and much cheaper.

The training included how to drive the Vision Fleet cars and how to charge
them. The owners manuals also have instructions on both.

Vision Fleet spokeswoman Jennifer Wagner said the training stressed “the
importance of making sure vehicles are plugged in to a dedicated outlet that
will not overload the electrical system in the home.”

“That said, we have noticed on a few home inspections that some vehicles are
not being plugged in to those specifications, which

Re: [EVDL] article: Tomorrow an electric plane will fly the English Channel for the first time

2015-07-10 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Airbus electric plane beaten to cross-Channel record by French pilot in 
two-seater
|   |
|   |  |   |   |   |   |   |
| Airbus electric plane beaten to cross-Channel record by ...A French pilot in 
a tiny plane has beaten aviation giant Airbus in a contest to fly an electric 
plane over the English Channel |
|  |
| View on www.telegraph.co.uk | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
|   |


Sorry about the overly long link but another has beaten them 
both.Unfortunately, the report skips over the aircraft that beat them. That one 
looks the most interesting.
  From: John Blair via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Friday, 10 July 2015, 2:32
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Tomorrow an electric plane will fly the English 
Channel for the first time
   
And AeroVironment's Solar Challenger did it on a 163 mile flight way back in 
1981:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Challenger


John

---
John G. Blair Studio
Occidental, California
(about an hour north of the Bay Area)
http://www.jgblairphoto.com - general photography
http://www.johngblairstudio.com - commercial and stock photography
http://www.johngblair.com - author website

 



On Jul 9, 2015, at 5:39 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

 What about the solar plane that is making a trip around the world?
 Or is this the technicality that it is required to land in UK and immediately 
 across the canal
 so a plane flying around the world and touching down only sporadically is not 
 considered
 the first electric plane to cross the canal?

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: “Is this thing on?” Mastering the art of driving an EV

2015-05-28 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

This model has a regenerative breaking system, meaning if you break
gradually you recharge the battery. Smith said drivers can return from a
short drive with more kilometres than they started with because they
regenerate power from smart breaking.
Forgetting breaking for a moment, have Ford discovered a novel way of 
charging the battery harnessing perpetual motion?
  From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2015, 10:23
 Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: “Is this thing on?” Mastering the art of driving an EV

http://metronews.ca/news/halifax/1376639/butterflies-on-the-dashboard-mastering-the-art-of-driving-an-electric-vehicle/
Butterflies on the dashboard: Mastering the art of driving an electric
vehicle
May 24, 2015 | By Heide Pearson

[images  / Jeff Harper
https://metronewsca.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/05-25-hal2-electric-heidi-jh.jpg
Reporter Heide Pearson, left, gets instructions from Scott Smith of Ford
during a test drive of a fully electric vehicle Sunday in downtown Halifax.

https://metronewsca.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/05-25-hal2-electric-car-jh.jpg
]

“Is this thing on?”

My first thought while sitting in the driver’s seat of a fully electric Ford
Focus on Sunday.

Scott Smith from Ford took me to test drive of one of many electric
vehicles, or EVs, on the Nova Scotia Power parking lot off Lower Water
Street in downtown Halifax.

The EVs are in town for Ride ‘n Drive, part of the annual Electric Mobility
Canada conference happening at the Westin Nova Scotian from Monday through
Wednesday. It’s the first time the conference has come to Atlantic Canada.

Once I pressed the “on” button, the car was completely silent. I checked for
a little green symbol on the dash that indicated we were ready to roll.

“You’re expecting that rumble, but you’re not gonna get it here,” assistant
product marketing manager Smith said.

Cruising the city streets wasn’t much different from being in a gas-powered
car. I was expecting a whirring sound, or less power, but was surprised to
find how natural the EV felt.

This model has a regenerative breaking system, meaning if you break
gradually you recharge the battery. Smith said drivers can return from a
short drive with more kilometres than they started with because they
regenerate power from smart breaking.

Also, if you drive efficiently, blue butterflies fly across the dashboard
screen at the end of your drive.

I got the butterflies, so I’m a natural.

There were several people at the event trying different EVs and hybrids.
Mindy and Damian McCarville drove the Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Nissan Leaf and Kia
Soul electric vehicles.

“They’re super cool,” Mindy said. Damian loved the quiet drive and the
power.

A standard EV can drive about 130 kilometres on a full charge, Smith told
me. So they’re ideal for short commuting.

Electric Mobility Canada president and CEO Chantal Guimont said she hopes to
see more people driving EVs in the future.

“It’s a really irreversible trend,” she said. “We’re gonna get there; we
just wanna make it faster.”

A basic EV can go for $30-35,000 but the economic return can be seen within
three to five years, Guimont said.

For me, the butterflies on my screen were a real hit.

Nova Scotia Power launched Halifax’s first electric vehicle fast charging
station at the Barrington Street Superstore on May 14.
[© metronews.ca]

For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098350_why-lg-chem-leads-in-electric-car-batteries-materials-science-it-says
LG Chem sez their Materials Science Leads In EV Batteries

http://www.thenational.scot/news/university-of-dundee-shows-off-its-all-electric-vehicle-fleet.2993
University of Dundee shows off its all-electric vehicle fleet

http://millelacscountytimes.com/2015/05/13/visionary-charging-station-caters-to-area-e-car-owners/
Visionary charging station caters to e-car owners

http://www.virtual-strategy.com/2015/05/18/goe3-launches-first-universal-charging-station-route-phoenix-tucson-signaling-end-%E2%80%98range-#axzz3aWfOmP23
GOe3's Universal L32 EVSE Route from Phoenix-Tucson AZ
+
EVLN: Carmel-CA PD separate and baby-sit drunk EVSE-fighting drivers

{brucedp.150m.com}

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Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.

2015-05-19 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Then again you could purchase a second hand Volt/Ampera and drive electric for 
95% of the time with a four cylinder ICE for longer journeys.Very cost 
effective now they are being released from business leases and I haven't 
fuelled mine for over two months.
  From: Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, 19 May 2015, 17:02
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's 
the battery.

I think the main point of the article is that most families that can't 
afford (or can't have for other reasons) two cars will continue to chose 
and ICE car over an EV.  This is purportedly because, even though the EV 
will accomodate 80-90% of their driving needs, that other 10% is too 
much of a hurdle.  That is, they don't consider renting an ICE car for 
that other 10% to be a viable option.  You can agree or disagree but 
until there are more EVs that are affordable and can go 200+ miles on 
a charge, he's claiming it's the battery, stupid.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 19-May-15 8:31:52 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales 
Better? It's the battery.

  How trite!... Also, completely wrong.
  The current battery is what makes electric cars viable...
http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710doc_id=277584

Here is my response to this stupid article:

The basis of your uninformed claim Yes, Electric Cars Still Need an
Innovative Battery is your century and 3 generation old legacy of
gas-tank/gas-station narrow minded thinking.

Authors who write about EV's with that legacy are blind to the value of
EV's.  Yes, EV's do not meet ALL of the versatility of the gas car, but
they DO meet (and far exceed by a factor of three or more) the value of
local travel and commuting which is over 80% of our national vehicle
transportation (and emissions)!

Why are you so dead set against the 80% solution (which every EV owner
will tell you gives them 100% satisfaction and in fact saves them 
3:to:1
on operating costs. And costs LESS than the average Gas car?

You are quoting 2008 technology, and market, and thinking.  Sure in 
2010,
the first EV's cost more than comparable gas cars.  But by 2013 with 15
EV's on the market and the $5k price drop by Nissan and GM, the average
cost* of an EV broke even with the average costs of all gas cars sold 
in
America ($31k).  By 2015, the average price* of all EV's  ($29k) is now
$3k LESS than the average gas car and if you ignore the Luxury Tesla, 
then
the average EV cost* ($26k) is now $5k less than the average gas car?

And by the end of 2015, there are 40 EV's on the market further 
bringing
down that average cost (*after incentives).

So where on earth can you make your outlandish (outdated 
legacy-thinking)
claim about batteries when people who buy EV's represent the HIGHEST
satisfied car customers and their cars fully meet their needs?

What is missing is awareness and education . of which your article is
completely misguided and fails.

Please see http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html

Sorry for the tone.  But it is gas driving authors with articles like
yours that are holding back EV sales, not the battery.  The battery HAS
SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car.  Let
those that can use it buy it and get out of the way.

Sorry for the tone.  But rants feel good sometimes..

Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

2015-05-14 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

The electronics only register cell electricity usage in the kWh field and gas
use in the other field.I agree though that any use of gas when measuring range
could be slightly incorrect as the Volt/Ampera REX is a generator only and
starts and stops regularly if driving slowly to ensure that it doesn't put any
gas generated power into the cells. The software engineers try extremely hard
to only generate energy for the road when the cells are considered empty but
are actually topped up and emptied in a continuous process.
If you check earlier posts you will note that many display electricity only use
and are often over 50 miles.
BTW, these cars were so ahead of their time and are still probably the only
PHEV's that are pure electric with gas mode only used when the cells are empty
or Hold/Mountain mode is selected.They have huge power off the line and will
happily reach and cruise at 100mph (not on a public road) using battery only.
It is later hybrids like the Outlander that seem to need gas mode to assist the
electric motor.
From: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net
To: Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2015, 12:41
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

I think you all are mistaken. You are using gas. Maybe not much .3 of a gallon
like the guy said in the forum but then it doesn't take much gas to go 15
miles. Those cars go into gas mode if you go over 45 miles an hour I believe

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2015, at 3:39 AM, Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Hi Paul,
I never wished this to start an argument as we are all I hope avid EVers.
My post was simply to show that a well designed drive train is capable of high
mileages even when tugging around a heavy body and I totally agree with other
posts that removing weight and lowering the CD will inevitably reduce the need
for higher capacity battery packs.
The Volt/Ampera has a 16kWh pack but only allows around 10.4kWh to be used for
longevity and many are covering over 150,000 miles with little or no capacity
loss as I believe the loss is above the allowed amount.
As for proving the range, yes you need to drive steadily but it is an art many
EVers develop naturally and this forum link
https://speakev.com/threads/50-mile-club.304/page-11 will show that it is
exceeded regularly.

What has surprised me is that my Volt/Ampera exceeds the range efficiency of my
Lotus Elise EV which only weighs a tonne although is using an older drive train
which uses the original gearbox fixed in third..

From: paul dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 22:37
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

No they don't. 30 to 35 miles on battery.
You would have to prove that, Of course the i-MiEV will go further if you drive
40 MPH.
I was speaking of normal driving.
From: Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
ev@lists.evdl.org; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Volt/Ampera's regularly do more than 50 miles on their 10.4kWh battery packs
and that includes dragging round a backup four cylinder engine in a steel
chassis.

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Re: [EVDL] Fw: Supercharging is not the way.

2015-05-14 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Yep.
I originally didn't like how complicated the propulsion unit is but have to
admit that it works.
At heart I am a BEVer and have two I converted/built myself but the Volt/Ampera
really does do what it was purchased for.It completely replaces an ICE car and
I rarely if ever fill it up as the range is enough for daily commuting, even
weekends.
Russ
From: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net
To: Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2015, 17:05
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: Supercharging is not the way.

I like to win an argument? LOL!

I post an article speaking of all the confusion on how the volt works and
citing a GM engineer to clear the mud.

So you come back with auto news that contradicts the GM engineer.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2015, at 10:59 AM, Russ Sciville via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Wow, you do like to win an argument Paul. :-)

Where do they disagree with me? Plenty of us cover 50 miles in good weather
and even hypermile to 60 although I haven't.
What I will say is that the power module is a complicated bugger but works.
It normally runs on the main motor, then combines with the generator, using
it as a motor over 60mph or under hard acceleration to increase available
power until the battery reaches low when the gas engine runs and the
generator links with it to generate power.At high speeds with the gas engine
the engine torque may or may not be linked with the output shaft but that is
never very clear.
At no time does the engine start to assist acceleration when in electric mode.
This link explains it well and there are youtube video's which are well worth
watching.http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA713241015.PDF

It is the best car I have ever owned and my last gas car was an M3!
Russ

From: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net
To: Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2015, 15:46
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

GM seems to disagree with you.

- Farah says that in his mind the Volt is unequivocally an electric car.
The Volt is an electric vehicle...because for the first 40 miles you can get
full performance running on nothing but an electric motor until the battery is
depleted, he said.
- The Volt has three distinct motive forces in it: a large electric motor, a
small electric motor/generator, and a 1.4 liter engine. Up to two of those
three forces can be combined in select ways through the Volt's secret sauce
drive unit—given the road demands and state of charge of the battery—to drive
the vehicle.
- Only the large electric motor is capable of moving the car forward on its
own. The small electric motor/generator and the gas engine can only ever be
combined with one of the other motive forces to drive the wheels.
- Even when the gas engine is on and partially driving the wheels, it cannot
operate without electricity flowing to one of the other motors.
- The gas engine, under most conditions, will be used to drive the generator
and produce electricity, and will not be used to drive the wheels.
- There is no direct mechanical linkage between the Volt's gas engine and
the wheels, rather there is an indirect linkage that is accomplished by
meshing the power output of the engine with the power output of one of the
other two electric motors.

http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2015, at 6:59 AM, Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

The electronics only register cell electricity usage in the kWh field and gas
use in the other field.I agree though that any use of gas when measuring
range could be slightly incorrect as the Volt/Ampera REX is a generator only
and starts and stops regularly if driving slowly to ensure that it doesn't
put any gas generated power into the cells. The software engineers try
extremely hard to only generate energy for the road when the cells are
considered empty but are actually topped up and emptied in a continuous
process.
If you check earlier posts you will note that many display electricity only
use and are often over 50 miles.
BTW, these cars were so ahead of their time and are still probably the only
PHEV's that are pure electric with gas mode only used when the cells are
empty or Hold/Mountain mode is selected.They have huge power off the line
and will happily reach and cruise at 100mph (not on a public road) using
battery only.
It is later hybrids like the Outlander that seem to need gas mode to assist
the electric motor.
From: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net
To: Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2015, 12:41
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

I think you all are mistaken. You are using gas. Maybe not much .3 of a
gallon like the guy said

[EVDL] Fw: Supercharging is not the way.

2015-05-14 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Wow, you do like to win an argument Paul. :-)

Where do they disagree with me? Plenty of us cover 50 miles in good weather and
even hypermile to 60 although I haven't.
What I will say is that the power module is a complicated bugger but works. It
normally runs on the main motor, then combines with the generator, using it as
a motor over 60mph or under hard acceleration to increase available power until
the battery reaches low when the gas engine runs and the generator links with
it to generate power.At high speeds with the gas engine the engine torque may
or may not be linked with the output shaft but that is never very clear.
At no time does the engine start to assist acceleration when in electric mode.
This link explains it well and there are youtube video's which are well worth
watching.http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA713241015.PDF

It is the best car I have ever owned and my last gas car was an M3!
Russ

From: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net
To: Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2015, 15:46
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

GM seems to disagree with you.

- Farah says that in his mind the Volt is unequivocally an electric car.
The Volt is an electric vehicle...because for the first 40 miles you can get
full performance running on nothing but an electric motor until the battery is
depleted, he said.
- The Volt has three distinct motive forces in it: a large electric motor, a
small electric motor/generator, and a 1.4 liter engine. Up to two of those
three forces can be combined in select ways through the Volt's secret sauce
drive unit—given the road demands and state of charge of the battery—to drive
the vehicle.
- Only the large electric motor is capable of moving the car forward on its
own. The small electric motor/generator and the gas engine can only ever be
combined with one of the other motive forces to drive the wheels.
- Even when the gas engine is on and partially driving the wheels, it cannot
operate without electricity flowing to one of the other motors.
- The gas engine, under most conditions, will be used to drive the generator
and produce electricity, and will not be used to drive the wheels.
- There is no direct mechanical linkage between the Volt's gas engine and
the wheels, rather there is an indirect linkage that is accomplished by meshing
the power output of the engine with the power output of one of the other two
electric motors.

http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2015, at 6:59 AM, Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2015, at 3:39 AM, Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

2015-05-14 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

From: paul dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 22:37
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

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Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

2015-05-13 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Yes, needs a gentle foot but often achieved. Checkout SpeakEV forum in the 
Volt/Ampera section.I've achieved 48 miles which includes city driving.
  From: Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 17:13
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
   
Are you sure about that number?  That would be equivalent to the Leaf 
regularly getting about 120 miles on a charge.  Probably possible on a 
flat road, no stops, at 40mph but not possible for regular driving.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: Russ Sciville via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List ev@lists.evdl.org; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 13-May-15 9:05:34 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

Volt/Ampera's regularly do more than 50 miles on their 10.4kWh battery 
packs and that includes dragging round a backup four cylinder engine in 
a steel chassis.
      From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
  Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 16:59
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

The I-MiEV already is energy efficient. It travels 60 miles on a 16kw 
battery and charges in 30 min on chase mo.

Sent from my iPhone

  On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

  I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries 
and the 1 megawatt per car requirement.  It's time to stop the 
madness.  As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy 
pigs.  85KW!  Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when 
there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use 
efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal.  Stella the 
electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar Challenge 
has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight.  
Using the solar panels it can go further and faster.  Engineers seem 
to forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the 
charging time.  If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen 
just by size requiring less than MW consumption.  Think of a ten stall 
quick charging station.  That might require 10mw when fully deployed.  
Then look at Stella at a Chademo site.  About 20 minutes to 80 
percent.  With those new batteries I cou
  ldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of 
electricity.  So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps 
on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles 
.16 or so and stop making these energy hogs.  Efficiency not Mega 
Watts.    Lawrence RhodesStella Solar Powered Car

  |  |
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
  | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the 
Stella, the first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow 
from TechCrunch TV |
  |  |
  | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo |
  |  |
  |  |


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Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

2015-05-13 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Volt/Ampera's regularly do more than 50 miles on their 10.4kWh battery packs 
and that includes dragging round a backup four cylinder engine in a steel 
chassis.
  From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 16:59
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
   
The I-MiEV already is energy efficient. It travels 60 miles on a 16kw battery 
and charges in 30 min on chase mo.

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
 wrote:
 
 I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 
 megawatt per car requirement.  It's time to stop the madness.  As much as I 
 love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs.  85KW!  Yes much better than 
 a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less 
 energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal. 
  Stella the electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar 
 Challenge has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight.  
 Using the solar panels it can go further and faster.  Engineers seem to 
 forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the charging 
 time.  If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen just by size 
 requiring less than MW consumption.  Think of a ten stall quick charging 
 station.  That might require 10mw when fully deployed.  Then look at Stella 
 at a Chademo site.  About 20 minutes to 80 percent.  With those new batteries 
 I cou
 ldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of 
electricity.  So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, 
reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so 
and stop making these energy hogs.  Efficiency not Mega Watts.    Lawrence 
RhodesStella Solar Powered Car
 
 |  |
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
 | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the Stella, the 
 first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow from TechCrunch TV |
 |  |
 | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo |
 |  |
 |  |
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Can Automakers Legally Stop You From Working On Your Car?

2015-04-27 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Its not too bad in the UK at the moment.

The electric part is largely ignored as long as the car passes a four hour 
inspection for a ground up new build or you may just get away with the electric 
drive being considered as a replacement engine on an existing glider as I did 
on my Elise and they simply re-registered it.

MOT (yearly government inspection) tests that all cars require are quicker as 
no emission tests are required.

Russ

On Sun, 26/4/15, HARSHA GODAVARI via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Can Automakers Legally Stop You From Working On Your Car?
 To: Peter C. Thompson pe...@cruzware.com, Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2015, 16:36
 
 Microsoft certified
 hardware/software only please, to protect us of course :-)
 
 
 regards 
 hg 
 
 -
 Original Message -
 
 From: Peter C. Thompson via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org
 
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 
 Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 2:31:53 PM 
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Can Automakers Legally Stop
 You From Working On Your Car? 
 
 This is a serious problem in Europe. I just got
 back from visiting my 
 work's office in
 Munich, and they have to jump through some serious 
 hoops to get a car electrified in Germany. 
 
 Also, it really isn't
 possible to modify a car in Switzerland (worse 
 case) - they will force you to put on only
 certified parts or impound 
 the car. O_O 
 
 Cheers, Peter 
 
 On 4/25/15 9:26 PM, Doc
 Kennedy via EV wrote: 
  I'm not
 laughing. It's my worst nightmare and I'm just an
 artist and EV 
  tinker. 
  
  Doc 
  
  On Sat, Apr 25, 2015
 at 11:08 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 
  wrote: 
  
  Not specific to EVs, except insofar as
 they're coming of age at the same 
  time as the automakers are trying to
 follow in the computer industry's 
  footsteps. 
 
 
  
  http://www.hotrod.com/news/1504-can-automakers-legally-stop-you-from-working-on-your-car/
 
  
 
 Homebrew conversions are going to have a great deal of
 attraction to them 
  for anybody who
 doesn't want some corporate beancounter somewhere
 telling 
  them what they can and
 can't do with an hunk of steel they just paid good 
  money for. My only fear is that the
 automakers might try to get legislation 
  passed that requires the original
 manufacturer to certify any such 
  conversion. Can you imagine having to
 get permission from GM to drive your 
  newly-electrified '57 Caddy? 
  
  b 
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Re: [EVDL] Charging-EVr PD-assaulted pushed, handcuffed, punched, pepper-sprayed +

2015-04-27 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Wow,

Not wishing to compare policing between the UK and the US but we have less
coppers on a drugs raid! So many officers and cars for one guy!

Odd as well that you cannot charge after 11pm. What's that all about?

On Mon, 27/4/15, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Subject: Re: [EVDL] Charging-EVr PD-assaulted pushed, handcuffed, punched,
pepper-sprayed +
To: Peri Hartman pe...@kotatko.com, ev@lists.evdl.org
ev@lists.evdl.org, Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Date: Monday, 27 April, 2015, 5:51

Then, even if making a mistake, why all the
aggressive action? Thanks,
Bruce, for
bringing this to attention (though I suspect this will be
all
over the headlines).

Peri
It
apparently happened last Tuesday.I wouldn't hold
your breath. Unfortunately this sort of stuff happens
every day and never gets reported

Sure looks like an innocent guy being
abused. Be nice to figure out a way to help a fellow
EV'er ..perhaps more press
Looked up
the police reporthe's being charged with typical
trumped up police bull ...certainly nothing that would
indicate a crime.
Police reports here...only
one with first name Justin
http://www.santamonicapd.org/PoliceDailyReports/arr20150423.pdf

PALMER,
JUSTIN
County: Los Angeles For: 148(A)(1)
Resist/Obstruct/Delay Peace Officer

Justin Palmer Arrest Details | Local Crime
News

| |
| | | | | | | |
| Justin Palmer Arrest Details | Local Crime
News The following Official Record for JUSTIN PALMER is
being redistributed by LCN and is protected by
constitutional, publishing, and other legal rights. |
| |
| View on
www.localcrimenews... | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| |

--
Original Message --
From: brucedp5
via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 26-Apr-15 5:35:27 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Charging-EVr PD-assaulted
pushed, handcuffed, punched,
pepper-sprayed
+

% Always show your
ID EV-ignorant profiling-police will assault
charging
EVrs %

http://www.santamonicadispatch.com/2015/04/committee-for-racial-justice-calls-emergency-meeting-tonight/
COMMITTEE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE CALLS
EMERGENCY MEETING TONIGHT
April 26,
2015 by Peggy Clifford

The Committee for Racial Justice has called
an emergency meeting
tonight to
discuss an apparent assault Tuesday night
on a Black man by Santa
Monica PD.

The meeting will be
held at The Church in Ocean Park, 235 Hill Street,
Santa
Monica at 7:00
pm. As this is a community problem, the Committee hopes
for a
large community
response.a wide-ranging discussion and the development
of a
positive and just
course of action.

Here is the NAACP’s account of the
incident:

Darrell
Goode, in his capacity as SM-Venice NAACP President, has
asked
me to
let you
know about SMPD activity that took place at an electric car

charging
dock in
Virginia Ave Park in Santa Monica on Tuesday night, April 22

that is
the subject
of community concern.

The electrical charge docks are open until
11pm. A 36 year-old Black
male
who was charging his electric vehicle at
10:45pm was approached by
several
police officers, who asked for his ID. He
asked “why?” Subsequently, he
was
pushed to the
ground, handcuffed, punched, pepper-sprayed and taken
into
custody.

The individual was
charged with not following a police order. He was
jailed
and released the
next day. He requi-
red eye treatment
due to the pepper spray. He has a court date May 25.

A video of some of the
interaction was taken by a female passerby,
unacquainted with any of the parties.

[video
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bwdp1kXhDPb3cmFkM01ObmpteUpnZGIzV1d0V0MzeUNoNGlF
]

The video shows apparently egregious
behavior by the police. The woman
who
took the video came
forward because she believes the police behavior
was
excessive.

The information on the
video is incomplete. It does not show all
angles, and
it does not
show the entire interaction from start to finish.

On April 23, at First
AME Church in Santa Monica, Darrell Goode
interviewed
the man,
the passerby/ witness who videotaped part of the interaction

and
several other
people.

Based on
information we have, there was no warrant for the man’s
arrest
and
neither
he, his car, nor license number fit any description based on

any
recent criminal
activity.

Darrell
Goode has informed SMPD Chief Seabrooks, via SMPD Command

Staff, of
his
efforts to assemble information and his intention to
publicize it.
Based
on what is known so far, he may call a
community meeting.

Meantime, Chief Seabrooks has promised a
full internal investigation
and the
man intends to file complaints against one
or more of the officers
involved.

The man has the right
to take his case against the officers to the City
Personnel Board.

Re: [EVDL] AC motors for mowers

2015-04-25 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

I use a Lynch designed flat DC motor which is available from agnimotors.com.

Originally purchased from Ebay as an ex Robot Wars fighting machine motor, it 
runs on 36v and I use ex equipment 95Ah lead acid batteries which last at least 
two seasons at a time.

My Stiga twin blade mulching mower has around a half hour run time on good 
cells and is quieter and more powerful than the ICE it replaces.

No ear defenders needed which was a main reason for replacing it and the motor 
is ideally designed for vertical shift installation.

Cedric Lynch, the innovator of the motor (and a really nice bloke) has had a 
rocky time over the years with big business stealing his design so go to the 
web site and take a look.

I vastly prefer AC motors for transport but these highly efficient compact DC 
motors are not to be ignored for this type of application.   

Russ

On Fri, 24/4/15, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC motors for mowers
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Friday, 24 April, 2015, 21:23
 
 I have a Worx 36V mower
 that has a failed controller, the (DC) motor is good and
 very powerful,
 I have tested it with a 24V
 10A power supply and it hummed!
 But I am not
 needing a bladed mower since my yard is so small and uneven
 that I always end up
 using the weed whacker
 to mow the parts that need mowing.
 
 If you are interested in the 36V DC motor, it
 even has a Hall effect sensor on the axle
 that sits on top of the motor, to maintain RPM
 under varying load, in case you'd like to
 add this to your controller (I think that
 simply integrating the pulse output over time
 to get a DC voltage representative of the speed
 and combining that with any throttle input
 to the motor controller will do the trick. I
 believe Worx calls this intellicut
 
 You can pick it up locally in
 Silicon Valley or pay me shipping and I will be happy to
 see
 it go to good use instead of the mower
 sitting neglected in a corner of my terras.
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim
 Wireless
 
 office +1 408 383
 7626         Skype: cor_van_de_water
 XoIP   +31 87 784 1130        
 private: cvandewater.info
 www.proxim.com
 
 
 This email
 message (including any attachments) contains confidential
 and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless
 Corporation.  If you received this message in error, please
 delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized use,
 disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
 message is prohibited.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org]
 On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
 Sent: Friday,
 April 24, 2015 12:00 PM
 To: Electric Vehicle
 Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC
 motors for mowers
 
 ken via
 EV wrote:
  Where do I find the AC motors
 that are used to run the mower blades 
 
 that are on the decks of the riding mowers like Recharge n
 Zeon hustler etc.
  I looking for myabe
 750, 1000 watt motors.
 
 Are
 you sure they're using an AC motor? Every electric mower
 I've seen used plain old brushed DC motors. Either
 it's running directly on the battery (like my ElecTrak,
 or Black  Decker push mower), or it's running off
 the AC line with a bridge rectifier (my Rally mower).
 
  Also whats the differance
 between Dc brushless and Ac motor?
 
 Fundamentally, they're both AC motors.
 *All* motors are really AC motors!
 
 - A brushed DC motor uses brushes and a
 commutator to convert DC
     into AC for
 the actual motor. Brushed motors can either
     use magnets or wound field coils.
 - A brushless DC motor is just an
 AC motor with an electronic
    
 commutator (inverter) to convert DC into AC for
 the motor.
     Most (but not all)
 brushless DC motor have permanent magnets.
 -
 An AC motor obviously just leaves off whatever device the
 others
     had to convert DC into AC,
 since AC is already available.
     Most
 (but not all) AC motors don't use magnets.
 
  AC is 3 phase and Dc
 brushless has electronics on the motor that 
  changes it to AC?
 
 Not quite. AC motors can have any number of
 phases; single-phase, 2-phase, and 3-phase are the most
 common.
 
 The controller (for
 any type of motor) can either be attached to the motor, or
 in a separate box.
 
 --
 If you can't explain it to a six year old,
 you don't understand it yourself. -- Albert Einstein
 --
 Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N,
 Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: ElectraGirl: Electric e-NV200 Van Fun

2015-04-24 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

A really good initial road test report and I hope they sell plenty of them.

The price of £17,000 on the road complete with battery must make them cost
effective and a must for local delivery fleets.

Commonality with the Leaf is the way to go.

No wonder the Ford Connect EV went belly up as they were £40,000 list and
utterly un-competitive..

Russ

On Fri, 24/4/15, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: ElectraGirl: Electric e-NV200 Van Fun
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Date: Friday, 24 April, 2015, 10:25

https://transportevolved.com/2015/04/18/electragirl-electric-nissan-van-fun/
ElectraGirl: Electric Nissan Van Fun
April 18, 2015 By ElectraGirl

[images

https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/2014-Nissan-e-NV200.jpg
Delivered clean and White

https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/2014-Nissan-e-NV200-dash-instruments.jpg
Instruments and centre stack showing Carwings navigation
unit

https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/2014-Nissan-e-NV200-loaded-with-matress-below-and-belongings.jpg
Lots of boot space with easy access through the side doors

https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Waiting-at-the-charging-point.jpg
Charging station EV'd

https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/2014-Nissan-e-NV200-charging-at-an-ecotricity-station-e1429356470215.jpg
Charging at an EcoTricity station
]

A van I hear you say? Yes, a van! I know it’s all a bit
weird and I haven’t
been in a van for years let alone driven one, so it’s
going to be a little
different. I should just point out here what might be
obvious, but just in
case it isn’t – it is an Electric Van, which thinking
about it is probably
obvious, otherwise I wouldn’t be writing about it!!

My sidekick is going to do that whole technical thingy and
write up of the
Nissan e-NV200 Electric Van while I do the rest.

So why and how did we end up testing out the Nissan e-NV200
Electric Van?

Well, it all started because we were going to be in the UK
and spending
three weeks there visiting family and helping my mum with
her house move. We
had been looking at the possibility of borrowing a camper
van conversion but
unfortunately that didn’t work out. Although, that would
have been useful to
stay in while the house move was going on. However, Nissan
offered to lend
us their e-NV200 Electric Van for a week and let us use it
to help with the
house move.

Now, bear in mind that for two weeks of being in the UK we
had, as always,
been driving my mum’s Fiat Panda. And as always, thank you
mum for letting
us borrow your car. But when you are used to driving pure
electric with all
its quiet smoothness, getting into a Fiat Panda that’s
rather herky, jerky
is not much fun. You get to the point where you would
happily accept the
wub, wub noise of the tyres on the BMW i3 and consider that
to be quiet! Oh
dear! So, even the idea of an Electric Van was rather
appealing, even though
it was a van. What would it be like I wondered.

When I first saw the van my first words were ‘It’s
white!!!’ I mean,
seriously a white van – how stereotypical (all vans seem
to be white in the
UK) and seriously, it’s white, of all the colours in all
the world – it had
to be white! Anyway after the initial shock of the colour it
was off out to
see what it was like.

The van is just a basic van, two seats in the front and
that’s it with
plenty of boot space behind. I must say though it had two
nice seats in the
front, very comfy and nicely finished off. There was climate
control and
heated seats – two of! Cup holders and little spaces for
this and that,
rather nice for a van really. Oh, and Satellite Navigation.

[image] Sheep and Lambs unfazed my the sight of a silent
van

Well, there is no getting around the fact that it is a van,
but after the
noisy Panda it was so quiet and smooth, no jerky gear
changes. You are quite
high up, which can have its advantages on those narrow back
roads, as you
can see above the hedges to see if any other vehicles are
coming towards
you. It is bouncy but again it is a van and I am also not
sure how bouncy it
actually was as the country roads around us are a bit bouncy
anyway in any
car. The roads are rather narrow too (one car width) at
times, which we got
to experience when we stopped for me to take a picture of
the very cute
lambs and a minute later there was another vehicle trying to
drive along the
road too! Hmm, how deep is that ditch there?

It does have a fair amount of regen but not what we are used
to in the BMW
i3, it seems to give you more regen as the batteries warm
up, which makes
sense. It can climb the hills that the poor petrol car
struggles
significantly with, it’s just unfortunate if you get stuck
behind a petrol
car that is

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

I always ask myself the same question, why is hydrogen still being touted as 
the next fuel?

Who would wish to drive around with a hydrogen tank in the back pressurised to 
10,000 psi?

We have all seen the photo's of Tesla's batteries burning after an accident but 
at least the car has time to tell the occupants to stop as soon as they can and 
get out.

A burst hydrogen tank or damaged pipe would be a gas/air bomb. Would any 
proponent of fool cells like to tell me otherwise?

Its often said that if petrol (gas) had only just been invented the man in the 
street would never be allowed to use it.

Picture a fool cell car in an amateur mechanics garage having some work being 
done on it using a naked flame or using grinding equipment.

Then multiply that possibility millions of times if fool cells took off as the 
oil companies (and Toyota) wish.

Madness!

Russ

On Fri, 24/4/15, Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
 To: Mark Abramowitz ma...@enviropolicy.com, Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Friday, 24 April, 2015, 13:35
 
 let me ask the question more
 directly:
 
 Efficiency questions aside, it seems to me that converting
 the methane to H2 has to have the same emissions at the
 plant that you would get at the tailpipe when burning the
 methane in an ICE.  The only thing that changes is the
 location of the emissions.  True?  If it isn't
 true, why not?  What am I missing?
 
 Efficiency questions then make the hydrogen case less
 attractive since it needs much more processing (cracking
 hydrogen and compressing to a very high pressure).  The
 only hope that fuel cells have to get back to even is the
 relative efficiency of the fuel cell relative to the ICE.
 L
 
 Mike
 
 
 On April 24, 2015 12:35:18 AM MDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 Sure, that question has merit. I only answered his first
 question.
 
 But the emissions I was particularly referring to were
 combustion
 emissions at the tailpipe...not CO2 emissions, which
 certainly are of
 relevance.
 
 But when the ZEV standards were adopted, the driver was
 nonattainment
 criteria pollutants.
 Efficiency certainly has bearing on GHGs, cost and other
 things, but is
 not the be all, end all. Or the hobbyists on this list
 would be arguing
 incessantly about ...everything.
 
 Clearly, at the tailpipe, nat gas v. H2 is some
 emission number I
 don't know off the top of my head versus zero.  I
 guess if you go want
 to go beyond that you might assume worse case (?) that
 the cars are in
 the SCAQMD and the H2 is all produced by steam
 reformation in-basin. I
 don't know what that number looks like, but I'll bet
 it's still a huge
 advantage  to use H2.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Apr 23, 2015, at 7:59 PM, Mike Nickerson m...@nickersonranch.com
 wrote:
  
  I think Ben's question still has merit,
 though.  If you start with
 methane and take it down two paths, what is the
 difference in emissions
 and efficiency?  The first path is burning the
 methane in an ICE.  The
 second path is converting the methane to hydrogen and
 using it in a
 fuel cell.  It seems like the hydrogen conversion
 is still likely to
 create CO2.  How does the hydrogen cycle reduce air
 pollution from
 using methane?
  
  Mike
  
  
  On April 23, 2015 7:28:17 PM MDT, Mark
 Abramowitz via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
  On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org
  wrote:
  
  Um...why not just use that methane as is? I
 mean, we already do --
  every vehicle with a CNG or LNG sticker on
 it is burning
 methane.
  
  To reduce air pollution. That's why CARB
 adopted the ZEV mandate.
 
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Re: [EVDL] Con-EV: Shell fights-back with Murray's T.25 ice-city-car (dumb and dumber)

2015-04-12 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Couldn't agree more.

I saw these cars on an RAC sponsored EV event Future Car Challenge a few 
years ago and I believe Gordon Murray is living on his past achievements as he 
received large grants to develop these cars and all who saw them said the same 
thing. Who would buy one!.

We already have numerous city cars so why on earth do we need more ICE powered 
ones although being sponsored by Shell says it all.

Must be nice to be able to tap into such resources but why re-invent the wheel?

If memory serves, these odd little cars cost millions to develop. There are 
deep pockets around somewhere.

On Thu, 9/4/15, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Con-EV: Shell fights-back with Murray's T.25 ice-city-car 
(dumb and dumber)
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Thursday, 9 April, 2015, 14:40
 
 Dumb and DUMBER!
 
 And the #1 best application for EV's is congested city
 driving.  And their
 perceived problem is range.
 
 So Shell, being both DUMB and DUMBER at the same time, comes
 out with a
 GAS burning car for congested city driving in a tiny box
 that NO ONE WOULD
 drive more than a few miles on the open road.
 
 Shows how dumb some entrenched fossil fuel thinking can be.
 
 Bob, WB4APR
 
 Original
 Message
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org]
 On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
 Subject: [EVDL] Con-EV: Shell fights-back with Murray's T.25
 ice-city-car
 
 % While Exxon/Esso is getting into the public EVSE business,
 Shell would
 rather just keep the public burning their fossil products %
 
 http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/new-cars/2015-04/shell-working-on-city-ca
 r-concept/
 Shell 'working on' city car concept
 09 April 2015
 Shell's decision to co-develop a fossil-fuelled car marks a
 notable
 fightback by an oil company, with traditional vehicle
 manufacturers moving
 towards electric and hybrid powertrains.
 
 http://www.autocarpro.in/news-international/shell-gordon-murray-design-dev
 elop-ultra-compact-city-car-concept-8150
 Shell and Gordon Murray Design to develop ultra compact city
 car concept
 Apr 09, 2015 [image
 http://www.autocarpro.in/IMG/946/9946/email-t251637-699x380.jpg
 The concept car will be a ground-up, full re-think of the
 Gordon Murray
 Design T.25 city car developed in 2010 (above). It will be
 unveiled in
 November this year.
 ]
 ...
 http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/91104/shell-to-build-t25-city-car-wi
 th-gordon-murray
 Shell to build T25 city car with Gordon Murray ...
 http://www.carscoops.com/2015/04/gordon-murray-partners-with-shell-for.htm
 l
 Gordon Murray Partners with Shell For An Innovative City Car
 April 9, 2015
 ...
 http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1097714_gordon-murray-teams-up-with-she
 ll-to-develop-innovative-city-car-concept-video
 Gordon Murray Teams Up With Shell To Develop Innovative City
 Car Concept:
 Video
 By Viknesh Vijayenthiran  Apr 9, 2015
 [video  flash]
 
 
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-New-EVSE
 -infrastructure-Playas-Oil-Auto-Utilities-tp4674127.html
 EVLN: New EVSE infrastructure Playas Oil/Auto,
 Utilities, + Mar 08 2015
 ...
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-U-S-Exxo
 n-Mobil-EV-charging-network-Game-afoot-tp4674113.html
 EVLN: U.S. Exxon Mobil EV-charging-network Game afoot Mar 07
 2015
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Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes

2015-04-06 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Well said Martin,

The i8 is a sheep in wolves clothing.

It is a very advanced body with a backward step regarding its drive.

How can such a light car use more fuel then my Ampera when in ICE mode!

Now a fully electric i8 would be of serious interest.

On Mon, 6/4/15, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To
Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes
 To: EVDL Post Message ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Monday, 6 April, 2015, 8:47
 
 Just put a stinking
 comment on the article, actually.  He may be right on the
 autonomous vehicle issue but when he comes out with nonsense
 like 'the i8 is challenging the MS as the eco car of
 choice' you have to take anything else he says with a
 truck load of salt, let alone a pinch!  MW
 
 
 On 6 Apr 2015, at 00:16,
 Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 
 Food for thought:
 
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyanwyl/2015/04/02/evidence-of-forces-behind-the-tesla-factor-at-this-weeks-new-york-auto-show/?ss=tech
 
 
 I tend to think
 he's right.
 
 I also
 think that the first long-haul trucking company to adopt
 self-driving rigs will thereby become the dominant force in
 that industry.
 
 Sure feels
 like we're at the cusp of a phase change, when all sorts
 of little things add up in a big and surprising way.
 
 b
 
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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

2015-01-30 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

If you want reliable cheap chargers you are best to go for one of the 
Elcon/Tiechen chargers.
I have had one in my Elise for years and they are generally faultless.
Don't look inside though as they are not built to Brusa standards.

On Fri, 30/1/15, Jay Summet via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Friday, 30 January, 2015, 17:42

 On 01/30/2015 01:11 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

  Brusa will.  They're one of the few manufacturers
 I know of that cater both
  to OEMs and hobbyists.  They also have a Saft
 STM100 profile, which you
  could probably edit for other Saft blocks.

  A 1.6kw is $1775 and the 3.3kw chargers start at
 $2248.  Note though that
  these power outputs are for batteries from 200v to
 520v, and power output
  will be lower at lower voltages (max current is
 12.5a).

 I have mostly decided against looking into the Brusa
 offerings because 
 they are designed for higher voltage packs, and at 12.5 amps
 they will 
 be only 1.6kW for my pack.  (Plus the expense...)

 But if I was running a 200-300 volt pack they would be a
 nice full 
 featured option.

 Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...

2014-11-26 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Hi Marco,

Here in the UK we can purchase used kWh meters that were used for metering 
domestic supplies, for only £5 or less on Ebay.

I have used them for years and they are very accurate.

Are they available in your neck of the woods.

Russ

On Tue, 25/11/14, Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: [EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...
 To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Tuesday, 25 November, 2014, 23:27
 
 
     I’m trying to find a Watt-hour-meter
 that can work on a single phase
 either for 120 or 240Vac. Similar to this one from
 EKM-Metering: (can retain
 cumulative watt-hour data)
 
 http://www.ekmmetering.com/basic-kwh-meter-100a-120-240-volt-3-wire-60hz-ekm
 -25ids.html
 
     Want to install it on an EV conversion
 that will be capable of
 recharge either on 120Vac or 240Vac (L1 or L2) using a J1772
 inlet, so no
 wire or manual configuration must be done. This will let me
 the ability to
 connect the car on any 120 or 240 outlet as any L2 public
 charging and have
 a track of all ‘life power consumed’ from the car. 
 
     Does some one knows any different option?
 
 
 
 
 Ing. Marco Gaxiola
 ma...@energyev.com
 Off: +52(662)301.1070
 Mob: +521(662)169.0140
 www.energyev.com  
 
 
 
 
 ---
 Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la
 protección de avast! Antivirus está activa.
 http://www.avast.com
 
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Re: [EVDL] Lithium Batteries and Cold Weather

2014-10-20 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Hi Dennis,

I have used my Elise EV with 50Ah cells through some pretty cold winters (-15C)
here in the UK with few if any problems.

You do get a larger voltage sag when accelerating but then you don't need to as
much when its icy.

Range may be reduced but then it is anyway with all the heating, wipers and
head lighting usage.

The one thing you must remember is to never charge when the cells are below 0C
(32F) as it damages them.

I always plug in after a journey when the cells have heated themselves so its
never really and issue.

Russ

On Mon, 20/10/14, Pestka, Dennis J via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Subject: [EVDL] Lithium Batteries and Cold Weather
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org,
ne...@yahoogroups.com ne...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 20 October, 2014, 12:54

I'll be entering the first winter
with my new pack of Lithium Batteries and had a few
questions.
I know that the cold weather will affect my range, but need
some information on what I'll see.

Pack is (50) Calb CA-180 AH Cells. Total @ 3.35V ~
30,000 Whr's. 21,000 Whr's @ 70%
Current Average for ~ 50 trips is ~ 240Whr's per mile.

Will I see any different readings on my instruments ?

- Higher current draws.

- Higher Whr's per mile.

- Larger Voltage sag.

- ? ? ?

- Or do I just need to
assume I have a smaller pack. If so
approximately what %.

Just trying to make sure I don't drain the pack, leave
myself stranded, and possibly damage the cells.

Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366
http://evalbum.com/3715

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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: Need Lithium batteries.

2014-10-12 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Scammer??
Not Anglo Saxon to my knowledge so what does it mean?

I don't think Martin is asking for the supplier's address but more likely the
general source.

If its a business secret then so be it but as a potential purchaser which I
understand he is, its not too much to confirm that the cells are either new
direct from the manufacturer, or are ex equipment taken from complete packs.

On Sun, 12/10/14, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: Need Lithium batteries.
To: EVDL Post Message ev@lists.evdl.org
Date: Sunday, 12 October, 2014, 14:59

Nice! MW

Begin forwarded message:

From: allan bullock crui...@live.com
Subject: RE: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.
Date: 12 October 2014 13:33:56 BST
To: 'Martin WINLOW' m...@winlow.co.uk

You are a scammer. Its not polite to ask a vender for
his source. Maybe in
the UK you think its OK.

-Original Message-
From: Martin WINLOW [mailto:m...@winlow.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2014 12:51 AM
To: Cruisin; EVDL Post Message
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.

Well, I'm not a scammer - just interested. So, where
*do* you get them? MW

On 11 Oct 2014, at 21:01, Cruisin via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

Currently have in stock both NEW Leaf and VOLT
modules as well as BMS
wire harness for the Volt, and Mini BMS for both
Leaf and Volt
modules. Volt modules available in 24vdc, 48vdc and
96vdc. Out of
stock on Ford Focus modules until 10/29/14. Not
selling wrecks like
others. Scammers don't need to ask me where I get
them as they are wasting
their time.

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Re: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.

2014-10-10 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Have you tried Jack at EVTV?

On Fri, 10/10/14, jerry freedomev via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Friday, 10 October, 2014, 3:13

   Hi All,

             I have 3 EV's
 getting finished over the next few months and need some
 lithium Leaf, Volt or other EV production batteries about
 6kwhr worth.
             Was going to buy a
 totaled Leaf, Volt but they are going too high for me to
 afford.
             Does anyone have
 any spare or know where I might find some at a good price
 offlist or on?
              Anyone
 know who 1eyedcruiser on Ebay is   selling EV
 parts and batteries?  I'd rather buy direct as don't
 have an ebay account I know of.
               The Ewoody
 is coming along nicely but slow.  I had a dead and to
 far gone CommutaCar EV I'm parting out using it's motor
 transaxle to make a nice 65-70mph EV trike pickup with the
 front half of my Streamliner handling test mule no longer
 need but had a title so converting it into a trike. It would
 be nice if I could start it off in Lithium.

    I need to tow a boat and an aero light
 travel trailer plus my cargo trailer my golfcart transaxle
 trike just couldn't do fast enough.

             Thanks,

       Jerry Dycus
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Re: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.

2014-10-10 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Have you tried Jack at EVTV?

On Fri, 10/10/14, jerry freedomev via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Friday, 10 October, 2014, 3:13

   Hi All,

             I have 3 EV's
 getting finished over the next few months and need some
 lithium Leaf, Volt or other EV production batteries about
 6kwhr worth.
             Was going to buy a
 totaled Leaf, Volt but they are going too high for me to
 afford.
             Does anyone have
 any spare or know where I might find some at a good price
 offlist or on?
              Anyone
 know who 1eyedcruiser on Ebay is   selling EV
 parts and batteries?  I'd rather buy direct as don't
 have an ebay account I know of.
               The Ewoody
 is coming along nicely but slow.  I had a dead and to
 far gone CommutaCar EV I'm parting out using it's motor
 transaxle to make a nice 65-70mph EV trike pickup with the
 front half of my Streamliner handling test mule no longer
 need but had a title so converting it into a trike. It would
 be nice if I could start it off in Lithium.

    I need to tow a boat and an aero light
 travel trailer plus my cargo trailer my golfcart transaxle
 trike just couldn't do fast enough.

             Thanks,

       Jerry Dycus
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Screwdriver/pencil/hair-comb unlocks Leaf j1772 steal a charge

2014-10-03 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

The Ampera/Volt has the charge plug integrated into the alarm as I have found 
to my surprise.
Its very odd that Nissan do not do this as it must be an easy improvement.



On Fri, 3/10/14, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Screwdriver/pencil/hair-comb unlocks Leaf j1772 steal a 
charge
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Friday, 3 October, 2014, 9:14
 
 
 
 % BBC TG's un-plug prediction pontificated %
 
 
https://transportevolved.com/2014/10/01/secure-locked-nissan-leaf-charge-cable-proves-boy-comb/
 How Secure is Your ‘Locked’ Nissan LEAF Charge Cable?
 Not Very, Proves Boy
 With a Comb
 October 1, 2014 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
 
 [images  
 
https://d2v41vkldk04pc.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Locking-Pin-580x348.jpg
 In 2013 and later model years of the Nissan LEAF, this white
 locking pin is
 designed to prevent cable theft.
 
 
https://d2v41vkldk04pc.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Boy-Breaks-EVSE-580x324.jpg
 In 2013 and later model years of the Nissan LEAF, this white
 locking pin is
 designed to prevent cable theft.
 
 
 video
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOqkrqg6zds
 Nissan Leaf Portable EVSE unlock
 François Viau Sep 28, 2014
 You can select the english subs. PLEASE SHARE. All Leaf
 owners should be
 aware of this.
 Pour voir comment barrer son EVSE efficacement / To see how
 to secure your
 EVSE: visit 
 
http://menu-principal-forums-aveq.1097349.n5.nabble.com/EVSE-Efficace-le-Lock-sur-la-Nissan-Leaf-Video-tp12082.html
 ]
 
 Easy to stow away in the trunk of your car, portable
 Electric Vehicle Supply
 Equipment (EVSE) ‘bricks’ are lightweight and simple to
 use. Plug one end
 into a nearby electrical outlet and the other end into your
 car, and your
 car will gradually, slowly charge while you get on with the
 rest of your
 day. While a plug-in car takes much longer to charge from a
 portable EVSE
 unit than a dedicated electric vehicle charging station,
 these units are  a
 must-have accessory for anyone who travels off the beaten
 track or happen to
 live somewhere without dedicated charging.
 
 Being lightweight and relatively pricey — upwards of $900
 in some cases —
 OEM portable charging stations are also perfect easy
 pickings for a passing
 thief, prompting many electric car manufacturers to
 implement locking
 designs within their cars’ charger inlet ports in an
 attempt to thwart
 would-be criminals from walking away with the expensive
 device.
 
 As one Nissan LEAF owner from Quebec discovered however, the
 locking
 mechanisms designed to prevent your car from being unplugged
 and the cable
 stolen aren’t always that secure. What’s worse, the
 technique thieves used
 to steal his car’s portable 110-volt EVSE unit can be
 replicated by a small
 boy with a comb.
 
 Enter François Viau, a French Canadian who had left his
 Nissan LEAF charging
 at work last week only to discover on returning to his car
 that someone had
 stolen his car’s portable EVSE. As well as being
 frustrated about the loss,
 Viau was a little perplexed as to how the portable EVSE had
 actually been
 stolen, since his charge cable had supposedly been secured
 to the car by a
 locking mechanism build into his car’s charge port.
 
 Recent model years of the Nissan LEAF — like some other
 cars on the market
 today — have an optional lock mode which slides a tab
 across the top of the
 J1772 inlet a few seconds after you’ve plugged in a charge
 cable. The tab is
 meant to make it impossible to depress the release latch on
 the charging
 cable gun, making it impossible to unplug the car from the
 charging unit
 without first hitting the charge port unlock button.
 
 We’ve known for some time that certain types of
 third-party J1772 plug,
 specifically ones with a curved, tapered end to the latch
 can still be
 removed from a Nissan LEAF with a supposedly locked inlet
 charge port.
 
 But what Viau discovered was far more disturbing: namely
 that the
 specifically-designed, sturdy OEM EVSE which comes with the
 Nissan LEAF can
 easily be removed from a locked car with nothing more than a
 long, slender
 tool like a screwdriver, a pencil, or even a hair comb.
 
 It takes just six seconds to retrieve a locked Nissan LEAF
 charge gun.
 
 As the video below shows, while the locking mechanism on the
 LEAF’s charge
 port can be set to automatically engage seconds after
 you’ve plugged a
 charge cable in, there’s nothing to stop the locking pin
 from being easily
 slid back into the unlocked position.
 
 What’s more, the technique of sliding the locking
 mechanism back into the
 open position is so easy that Viau’s young son
 demonstrates it in the video,
 removing the locked charge cable with nothing more than a
 hair comb. And he
 does so in just six seconds.
 
 “I was surprised to see how easy and fast (the unit) was
 stolen even if it
 was on position LOCK on the charging port,” Viau told us
 in an email this
 morning. “I was

Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)

2014-10-02 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

I can understand why Tesla are a bit twitchy about people re-building accident
damaged cars as the main cell pack under the floor could be damaged.

Imagine the headlines if the car caught fire with young kids in it.

Any car which has suffered an accident will have some deceleration damage to
areas which are not easily picked up.

Any number of the multiple thousands of cells in that battery pack could have
suffered damage.
It happened in the early stages of the Volt testing when weeks after an impact
test, the car burst into flames.

http://consumerist.com/2012/01/23/nhtsa-says-dont-worry-about-your-chevy-volt-erupting-into-flames-more-than-other-cars/

Hardly surprising why Tesla are keeping their distance.

Russ

On Thu, 2/10/14, Collin Kidder via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Subject: Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive!
(video)
To: Lawrence Harris lhar...@haritech.com, Electric Vehicle Discussion
List ev@lists.evdl.org
Date: Thursday, 2 October, 2014, 14:18

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:04 PM,
Lawrence Harris via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

I am afraid I side with Tesla on this. As much as
I like to be able to
tinker with 'my stuff' here we have a very complex
system with many sensors
and actuators that are all controlled by the onboard
computer systems. The
car has been repaired by (apparently) someone with no
training on making
sure all these system, some of them safety systems, are
working. Tesla
says let us take a look, if it's all ok we will
reactive the car, if not
you have the choice of getting them fixed or abandoning
the project.

I absolutely disagree. If you purchase something (and you do
get a title
when you buy a car) then it is yours. What you do with it is
no longer the
company's problem. You could disassemble it, turn it into a
fish tank,
build it into a transformer, whatever. Saying that the car
is complex does
not change the question of ownership. When you sell
something you give up
interest in the object you sold. It is gone; it is no longer
yours. Now, it
is perfectly acceptable to offer warranties and other
incentives. These
things do not dilute the ownership question but rather
provide some route
for extra support after the sale. In all the cases we're
currently hearing
about the people with the cars are NOT trying to assert any
warranty claims
at all. They just want to fix their own car. Let's say that
some safety
systems are not working. If that is the case the car should
know about it.
This is not 1950. Cars have complicated diagnostic systems
as well as
complicated safety systems. Some cars even tell you which
light is burnt
out so you don't have to guess when it happens. If Tesla did
even a half
assed job of making their cars then it'll know if any of the
sensors or
systems seem to be malfunctioning. At that point it can warn
the owner of
the vehicle that something still isn't right. Often you are
allowed to
drive anyway so long as the problem isn't too dire. There is
no need for
Tesla to inspect the vehicle's sensors and computer systems.
They do that
themselves. The more pertinent problem here is likely the
frame of the car.
If it is cracked in half nothing else in the car is likely
to know about it
until the car tears in two. So, I could see someone being
nervous about
that. That's why the DMV will want the car's structure and
suspension to be
inspected before it is licensed for on-the-road use. Tesla
has nothing to
do with that. No, all of this is just Tesla being
overbearing control
freaks.

As an aside I had a similar talk with Mercedes when the
onboard computer
in my car got fried (wiring issue - their fault out of
warrantee and no
recall). I tried to get a replacement from
the wreckers and was told
sorry, the computer is flashed to the VIN of the car
and unless I replace
'all' the various interlinked components including the
keys it won't work -
only a new computer will work. Talking to my non
dealer mechanic he said
many of the new cars are like this and there are system
he can't easily
service.

Lawrence Harris

This is also stupid and many people want a law (right to
repair) to fix
this sort of issue. I'm sure that their stated reason for
doing VIN locking
is to prevent chop shops from parting out people's vehicles.
That's still a
stupid reason and really a lie. I seriously doubt that the
OEM cares about
chop shops. They care about control. Now we're seeing that
Tesla is showing
their true colors as well. I suppose it isn't really a
surprise but many
people had hoped that Elon Musk would be different. It turns
out that Tesla
is behaving pretty much like all the big auto makers. I
guess they want to
fit in?

There is currently a war against ownership and I'm not
terribly fond of it.
Unfortunately, few people seem to care. They're content

Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)

2014-10-02 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

For all we know the car probably de-activated itself safely so that rescue 
teams don't get electrocuted.

Tesla for sure wouldn't just put an on/off switch there so you could switch it 
back on now would they?

Most cars can do this using inertia switches which can be re-set. Tesla 
probably prefer to do it over the air if the accident was minor. 


On Thu, 2/10/14, Collin Kidder via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair  drive! 
(video)
 To: Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu
 Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Thursday, 2 October, 2014, 14:42
 
 Heh, you realize who
 deactivated it in the first place, right? I mean, you
 wouldn't have to activate it
 were it not for the fact that they turned it
 off in the first place. My argument is thus
 (and obviously) that they had
 no business
 disabling the car in the first place. It was not their car.
 I
 fail to understand how people can justify
 someone else disabling a car that
 they
 own.
 
 On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at
 9:35 AM, Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu
 wrote:
 
  This is
 laughable.  Sure the car is yours to do anything you want
 with.
 
  But when you
 want to go ask Tesla to activate it, then guess
 what, you
  are ASKING for help from
 someone who has a very valid reason not to want to
  take the risk to HELP you with YOUR
 salvage  CAR which you OWN.
 
  If  you want help from Tesla, either do
 what they want (to give you the
  help
 while minimizing their risk) or shut-up and go sit in your
 car and
  enjoy your OWNERSHIP as a yard
 ornament.
 
  Bob
 
 
 
 On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 9:18 AM, Collin Kidder via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
  wrote:
 
  On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:04 PM,
 Lawrence Harris via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
  
 
 wrote:
 
 
  I am afraid I side with Tesla on this.  As much as I
 like to be able to
   tinker with
 'my stuff' here we have a very complex system with
 many
  sensors
   and actuators that are all
 controlled by the onboard computer systems.
  The
   car
 has been repaired by (apparently) someone with no training
 on making
   sure all these
 system, some of them safety systems, are working.  Tesla
   says let us take a look, if
 it's all ok we will reactive the car, if not
   you have the choice of getting
 them fixed or abandoning the project.
  
  
  
  I
 absolutely disagree. If you purchase something (and you do
 get a title
  when you buy a car)
 then it is yours. What you do with it is no longer the
  company's problem. You could
 disassemble it, turn it into a fish tank,
  build it into a transformer, whatever.
 Saying that the car is complex does
 
 not change the question of ownership. When you sell
 something you give up
  interest in
 the object you sold. It is gone; it is no longer yours.
 Now,
  it
  is
 perfectly acceptable to offer warranties and other
 incentives. These
  things do not
 dilute the ownership question but rather provide some
 route
  for extra support after the
 sale. In all the cases we're currently hearing
  about the people with the cars are NOT
 trying to assert any warranty
 
 claims
  at all. They just want to
 fix their own car. Let's say that some safety
  systems are not working. If that is
 the case the car should know about it.
  This is not 1950. Cars have
 complicated diagnostic systems as well as
  complicated safety systems. Some cars
 even tell you which light is burnt
 
 out so you don't have to guess when it happens. If Tesla
 did even a half
  assed job of making
 their cars then it'll know if any of the sensors or
  systems seem to be malfunctioning. At
 that point it can warn the owner of
 
 the vehicle that something still isn't right. Often you
 are allowed to
  drive anyway so long
 as the problem isn't too dire. There is no need for
  Tesla to inspect the vehicle's
 sensors and computer systems. They do that
  themselves. The more pertinent problem
 here is likely the frame of the
 
 car.
  If it is cracked in half
 nothing else in the car is likely to know about
  it
  until the
 car tears in two. So, I could see someone being nervous
 about
  that. That's why the DMV
 will want the car's structure and suspension to
  be
  inspected
 before it is licensed for on-the-road use. Tesla has nothing
 to
  do with that. No, all of this is
 just Tesla being overbearing control
  freaks.
 
 
  
   As an aside I had a similar talk
 with Mercedes when the onboard computer
   in my car got fried (wiring issue
 - their fault out of warrantee and no
   recall).  I tried to get  a
 replacement from the wreckers and was told
   sorry, the computer is flashed to
 the VIN of the car and unless I
 
 replace
   'all' the
 various interlinked components including the keys it
 won't
  work -
   only a new computer will work. 
 Talking to my non dealer mechanic he
  said
  
 many of the new cars are like this and there are system he
 can't easily
   service.

Re: [EVDL] Boston-Power Launches Ensemble Module System == battery pack kits

2014-09-29 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Its a pity these cells are Lithium Cobalt and not the more friendlier 
chemistries.
The spec states a charge temp from -20C! I didn't think Lithium cells like to 
charge below 0C.


On Mon, 29/9/14, nicklogan via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: [EVDL] Boston-Power Launches Ensemble Module System == battery   
pack kits
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Monday, 29 September, 2014, 0:32
 
 It's probably wishful thinking, but
 it would nice to have these available
 through EV parts dealers:
 
 Boston-Power Launches Ensemble™ Module System
 
 Highly Scalable, Highly Reliable, “No-Weld” Integration
 System for
 Automotive and Industrial Battery Module Solutions
 
 WESTBOROUGH, Mass. and BEIJING, CHINA, Sept 16th, 2014 -
 Boston-Power Inc.,
 an industry leading developer and manufacturer of
 lithium-ion (Li-ion)
 batteries and energy storage technologies, today announced
 its launch of the
 Ensemble Module System; a revolutionary “kit” of
 standard components that
 allows OEMs and pack assemblers a simple, cost-effective way
 to assemble
 large format battery pack solutions for electric vehicle
 (EV) and energy
 storage system (ESS) applications. Available in 155 Wh and
 116 Wh
 increments, module designs can be created to meet a wide
 variety of voltage
 and capacity requirements.
 
 Companies in need of large format battery packs are faced
 with spending
 significant time and expense in designing, qualifying and
 fabricating custom
 solutions to meet their requirements.  Boston-Power’s
 Ensemble Module System
 provides a semi-custom cell-to-module approach to quickly
 and easily
 integrate Boston-Power’s cells into high energy density
 battery modules.  
 For OEMs and pack assemblers, the Ensemble Module System
 accelerates time to
 proof of concept, prototype and most importantly market
 while reducing
 upfront capital investment, program risk, BOM complexity,
 labor cost,
 production yield and operational complexity.
 
 “The Ensemble Module System offers a game-changing
 approach to building
 large battery packs for our customers,” said Darren
 Bischoff, Director of
 Business Development and Marketing for Boston-Power.
 “First, the flexibility
 of the Ensemble system allows customers to design, build and
 test a
 prototype pack in a fraction of the time it would typically
 take for a fully
 custom solution.  Next, the production quality components
 used in the
 initial prototypes greatly reduce the pack qualification
 effort needed to
 launch into mass production.  Finally, the same
 highly-reliable standard
 components used in the prototype and development stages
 support a
 cost-effective launch of low, medium and high volume packs
 without the need
 for expensive tooling or a complex assembly line.  Ensemble
 provides clear
 value from project inception through high volume pack
 production.”
 
 Key to the Ensemble solution is its innovative
 pressure-connect approach to
 module assembly which completely eliminates the need for
 difficult, costly
 and time consuming cell welding.  Fully tested to
 automotive quality
 standards, the result is a mechanically robust module that
 can be assembled
 and disassembled in a fraction of the time of conventional
 methods.  By
 utilizing Boston-Power’s Swing Cell products, customers
 realize all of the
 ease of assembly benefits of large format modules while
 retaining all the
 advantages of packing density, reliability and thermal
 performance that come
 with using Boston-Power’s small form-factor battery
 cells. 
 
 The Ensemble Module System enables cost-effective battery
 module packaging
 and mounting solution with exceptional performance at any
 volume.   Sample,
 prototype and production volumes are currently available.
 
 
 The kits appear to be based on their 18650 lithium cobalt
 cells made in
 Shenzen:
 
 Swing® 5300 Cell
 
 Designed to meet the challenges of the EV automotive
 market, Swing 5300
 offers:
 
 Optimized chemistry for higher operating temperature
 applications
 Equivalent capacity with long cycle life whether
 at 23C or 45C
  
 Wide operating temperature range
 Discharge -40°C to 70°C
 Charge -20°C to 60°C
  
 High energy density
 By volume: 490Wh/L
 By weight:  207Wh/kg 
  
 10 year reliable calendar life
 1,000+ cycles at 100% DOD
 2,000+ cycles at 90% DOD
 3,500+ cycles at 75% DOD
  
 Fast charge with minimal loss of cycle life (80% capacity
 in 30 minutes)
  
  Unmatched safety features
 Patented CID
 Separator with integrated shutdown mechanism
 Redundant vents
 Aluminum can construction to optimize thermal dissipation
 Laser welded lid
  
 Certifications
 UL
 UN
 RoHS
 Nordic Ecolabel
 Chinese Environmental United Certification Center 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Boston-Power-Launches-Ensemble-Module-System-battery-pack-kits-tp4671843.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries direct from China

2014-09-22 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Hi Matthew,

I have purchased direct from CALB in China which went very well but slightly 
scary as it is payment up front.
You need to find an importer to ship inland from the docks or pick the 
consignment up yourself.

Have you tried looking at prices from European suppliers?

I have purchased successfully from ev-power.eu and there is another in Holland 
called newelectric at www.newelectric.nl

Newelectric are a European stockist for Jack Rickard's EVTV store but I have no 
idea how much they actually have in Holland.
I have though purchased successfully from the US EVTV store.

A quick Google may find others.

Russ

On Mon, 22/9/14, Matthew Parkhouse via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: [EVDL] Lithium batteries direct from China
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Monday, 22 September, 2014, 11:41
 
 Hello All
 Has anyone had any experience with ordering lithium battery
 packs from China?  If so, how is the transaction at our
 port cities.  Apparently, these companies only ship to
 our ports.
 
 Thanks!
 
 
 Matthew Parkhouse, RN
 hobomatt@ aol.com
  
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: £75k York.uk 1st converted double-decker sightseeing ebus (video)

2014-09-21 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Mark,
For goodness sake you forgot to include that us Brits (including Scots thank 
goodness) still drink pints of wonderfully warm hand pumped real ale.

Sorry all, still off topic.

Russ :-)

On Sun, 21/9/14, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: £75k York.uk 1st converted double-decker sightseeing 
ebus (video)
 To: EVDL Administrator evp...@drmm.net, EVDL Post Message 
ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Sunday, 21 September, 2014, 9:25
 
 Yes - your maths is
 better than mine!
 
 We have a
 very convoluted attitude to units.  We decimalised in the
 70's but it only really took for money.  Ever since we
 have painfully slowly been moving over to everything else. 
 So, the weather man mostly talks about Celsius (but
 occasionally throws in a few imperial references to keep the
 older viewers happy).  Distances are still almost 100% in
 miles (sign posts etc).  Petrol is now virtually 100%
 metric.  Food is mostly metric except for markets who seem
 to be able to switch according to the customer's needs
 (but the law says it must be displayed and weighed
 metrically - still have people being arrested for doing it
 imperially!)  Cookery has gone over, too (thank goodness -
 what the blazes is a 'cup'?!... except we still use
 teaspoons and tablespoons liberally, though they have an
 accepted precise decimal equivalent - 5  10ml resp). 
 Rather off topic!  MW
 
 
 On 21 Sep 2014, at 00:21, EVDL Administrator
 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 
  On 20 Sep 2014
 at 11:21, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
 
 
  133kW LiFePO4 pack ... I'm a
 bit confused as to why it only gets 70
  miles or so range if it does 0.67
 miles per kWh... 
  
  
  Let's see, 0.67
 * 133 = 89 miles.  70 / 89 = 0.79.  So that 70 miles would
 
  be roughly 80% of the theoretical
 maximum range.  Sounds to me as if - for 
  once - they're quoting the usable
 range, not the drop-dead maximum.  If so, 
  I say bravo.
  
  PS - UK measures
 range in miles, not KM?
  
  David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
  EVDL Administrator
 
 
  = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
 = = = = = = = = = =
  EVDL Information:
 http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Re: [EVDL] Under Body Pan

2014-09-18 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

My Lotus Elise EV has both air dam and under body pans from front to back so it 
is totally flat underneath.

I guess if Lotus fit them then there must be a reason as Colin Chapman, the 
founder, was known for not adding anything unlessit increased lightness. :-)

Russ

On Thu, 18/9/14, Peter C. Thompson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Under Body Pan
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Thursday, 18 September, 2014, 15:45
 
 Hi Buddy,
 
 I actually installed an air
 dam to improve the airflow.  I also added 
 some air guides on the side of the car to help
 direct airflow around the 
 passenger
 compartment.
 
 It really
 depends on the aerodynamics of your car as to what would 
 improve it.  I got lucky in that a professor
 did a study on the Porsche 
 914, and showed
 where to improve the car.  Wheel covers provide a huge 
 improvement, BTW - more than fender skirts.
 
 Cheers, Peter
 
 
 On 9/18/14,
 7:37 AM, Buddy Mills via EV wrote:
  Has
 anyone else installed a body pan for aerodynamics?  I just
 put one under
  my electercel front to
 back, minus a 9 for a fan intake.  .064 Sheet
  aluminum with some 1 square tube
 under the motor bay for support.  After
  doing my regular drive of 84 miles round
 trip several times it seems to
  getting
 3% to 6% increase in mileage at ~50mph avg. 
    I am thinking fender
 
 skirts on the rear next.
 
    
 
  Buddy Mills
 
    mailto:buddymi...@cox.net
 buddymi...@cox.net
 
    
 
  Look mom, no gas. 
 http://www.evalbum.com/2887 http://www.evalbum.com/2887
 
    
 
  Disclaimer:  No
 animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing
 this
  email.  Any stories to the
 contrary are, for the most part, either fictional
  or greatly exaggerated.
 
    
 
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Re: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2

2014-08-29 Thread Russ Sciville via EV

Hi Buddy,

Why not run your heaters from the main pack voltage rather than changing the 
voltage twice.

I use 2kW 220vac ceramic heater cores taken out of cheap fan heaters. They are 
about 4 square and supposedly very safe as the resistance rises with 
temperature so they never reach an unsafe temperature even if the fan 
stops.(Positive temperature coefficient)

My cores are running on a 320v nominal voltage which can be over 340v when 
charged but have been working for years trouble free.
I set them in the original heater matrix with the matrix cores cut out and 
fixed them with araldite.

A simple air flow switch made from a float switch only allows heat when the fan 
is running for extra safety.

You could string two 110v ones in series if 220v cores are not available in the 
US or Ebay from Europe.

Use a high voltage relay to control them on and off. I use a high voltage DC 
semiconductor relay for temperature control using a cycling timer.

It wasn't cheap but handles fast pulses better than a relay.

Russ

www.evalbum.com/1454
Lotus Elise EV
Vortex GTEV
Ride on lawnmower EV


On Fri, 29/8/14, Buddy Mills via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Subject: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2
 To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' ev@lists.evdl.org
 Date: Friday, 29 August, 2014, 1:46
 
 I need some help with spec(s) on a
 filter diode.  I am attempting to hook up two DC to DC
 in my car along with a battery for my Aux 12volts. 
 Yes, I know that seems excessive but I need the extra to run
 my 12dc to 110vac inverter that runs my heaters.  It
 has been recommended here on the list serve that I place a
 diode on the output as to not give feedback to either of the
 DC2DC.  My problem is I don't know what specifications
 I need to use.  Plus if someone could also tell where I
 could purchase it I would be most appreciated.  I know
 that there are quite a few of you on the list that would
 probably know this off the top of their head.  Here is
 some info that I know.
 
 Battery is a Durcel AGM SL34M (20 amp hour rate - 55,
 Reserve Capacity:120
 
 DC2DC #1  Zivan NG1 - 50amps
 DC2DC #2  Azure DC-DC750 - 56amps
 
 DC2AC inverter Cobra 2575 - 2500watts cont. - 5000watt peak
 
 110vac - 1500 watt Heater
 
 Thanks for your assistance,
 
 Buddy Mills
 buddymi...@cox.net
  
 Look mom, no gas. http://www.evalbum.com/2887
 
 Disclaimer:  No animals were harmed or killed in the
 process of writing this email.  Any stories to the
 contrary are, for the most part, either fictional or greatly
 exaggerated. 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Feasibility question

2013-10-09 Thread Russ Sciville

Is it just me or is the idea of using an automatic transmission with an 
electric motor more than a little silly?
Noting that the transmission oil will get hot enough to heat the cabin confirms 
it.
Surely using AC motors is the way to go as all the manufacturers use them for a 
reason and they are readily available these days as are the inverters.

Direct couple it to a manual gearbox fixed in second or third. So much simpler.



On Wednesday, 9 October 2013, 15:17, Roger Stockton rstock...@delta-q.com 
wrote:
 
Dwain Swick wrote:

 We have been building our version of an automatic transmission for a few
 years now.  Our EVGlide is a modified Powerglide. We are connecting the
 motor directly to the transmission thru a coupler and adapter plates. We
 eliminate the torque converter. We cut off the bell housing as it is no
 longer needed. This makes a compact motor/transmission unit. We add an
 auxiliary pump to maintain pressure when stopped. The valve body has been
 modified to make it a manual shift. Most gear ratio's allow the vehicle to
 run 40 to 45 mph in low gear so low gear is all that is needed on most
 city streets.
 I don't know much about controlling the four wheel drive, but it seems the
 drive could be adapted to the EVGlide. I would think  the weight of the
 F150 and the extra drag of the four wheel drive, you would want an eleven
 inch motor.
 The normal automatic will tend to shift to a higher gear at a lower speed.
 This will make an electric motor tend to pull more amps which will give
 you poorer performance and shorter range.  The manual shift puts the
 driver in control. With the EVGlide, the gears are a planetary and always
 engaged. The clutches are internal and controlled hydraulically. When you
 move the shifter to a new position, you instantly get that gear.
 Because the unit doesn't use the torque converter, there isn't any need
 for an oil cooler. The slippage in the torque converter is where the oil
 gets hot.

I'm not saying that the EVGlide would be a poor choice, however, there are a 
couple of points that bear clarification.

Retaining the original Ford automatic is the easiest and least costly option.  
Going to some other automatic will require more fabrication and swapping the 
Ford automatic for a Ford manual will require additional work to retrofit the 
clutch and shifter linkages (for snowplowing with a manual you will probably 
want the clutch).

Retaining the torque converter provides additional torque multiplication and 
may allow you to use the 9 motor while going without a torque converter may 
force you to a larger motor.

The Ford automatics are fully manual shift for first and second gears.  That 
is, if you select 1, the transmission will start in, and remain in, first 
gear; if you select 2, it will start in and remain in second gear.  If you 
select D, it will start in first and upshift through the gears according to 
its programming, which will not likely be the same shift points you would 
choose for a series DC motor.

The factory transmission cooler is *inside* one of the end caps of the engine 
radiator.  It serves two purposes: if the tranny fluid temperature exceeds that 
of the engine coolant, it cools the fluid; if the tranny fluid temperature is 
lower than that of the engine coolant, it *heats* the tranny fluid.  This 
latter point is important since you plan to use the truck for snow plowing, 
which typically occurs in cold climates.  The clutch packs in automatic 
transmissions rely on o-rings to hold the oil pressure behind the pistons that 
applies the clutches.  With age, these seals tend to harden; they also tend to 
harden at low temperatures.  If you put the vehicle in gear at low temperature, 
oil pressure can leak around the seal and prevent the clutches from engaging 
properly.  The natural instinct when the vehicle doesn't begin moving is to 
apply more throttle, which raises the oil pressure.  Eventually the oil 
pressure reaches the point where the
 piston suddenly (violently) applies, sometimes with the result that the o-ring 
is dislodged completely.  If the o-ring becomes dislodged, that set of clutches 
becomes non-functional and you lose that gear (and possibly others, depending 
on the transmission design).

For snow plowing, I would suggest plumbing in an electric heater into the 
tranny fluid loop.  Indeed, I would consider circulating the heated tranny 
fluid through the stock heater core as a means of providing cabin heat (which 
you will certainly need anyway).

If you keep the stock automatic, the easiest option is to use the stock tranny 
pump and simply idle the motor to maintain line pressure.  This is likely to be 
less efficient than using a separate pump to maintain line pressure since once 
the motor RPM exceeds some level, the stock pump will build more pressure than 
necessary and you will be wasting energy circulating fluid through bypass 
circuits.

What sort of DC/DC converter do you have in your present EV?

[EVDL] (no subject)

2013-03-26 Thread Russ Sciville

Its very interesting regarding the extra cost of the 22kW charger which is made 
by Brusa because the 3.3kW charger they have sold for years isn't much less 
than that.


I can only assume that it is a single phase charger when 3 phase isn't 
available with a configurable charge rate in the same way that the smaller one 
can be adjusted to suit 13A or 16A supplies.

Russ

www.evalbum.com/1454

Lotus Elise EV
Vortex EV
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[EVDL] (no subject)

2013-03-25 Thread Russ Sciville

I agree with Martin here.

The UK has one of the largest new car markets in Europe, highest fuel prices 
and very pro EV use as can be attested by all the charge points being installed 
(or promised anyway).

Until recently, I had a deposit on one of the first of the S series cars but 
circumstances as well as having two of my own built EV's required me to cancel 
it.

It is a lovely car though as is the Roadster and is streets ahead of the 
competition.

Considering we had one of the first overseas Tesla showrooms, I wonder why we 
have now been put into the slow lane?

Russ

www.evalbum.com/1454

Lotus Elise EV
Vortex EV
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