[FairfieldLife] Re: Challenge -- say something true
--I agree with Yagyax on this. There is no serious attempt to connect the premise statements to the final conclusion; and thus the logic is seriously deficient. Grade, F. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yagyax yagyax@ wrote: ---Thanks, Bronte!...precisely what I said. Those that say Life is Bliss have arrived at that conclusion through direct experience. One would have difficulty arriving at that conclusion through logic alone. You are entirely wrong and self-deluded about that. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Challenge -- say something true
--Thanks, Offworld, btw one of my hobbies is getting a rise out of people...it's a fun game; nevertheless this doesn't detract from my claim of illogic in your chain of statements. I'll just mention one item:, to quote: Being at home, therefore you are happy in this universe, which is your cherished home where you grew up as a species. I simply can't fathom how you arrived at therefore you are happy in this universe, from being at home. Doesn't compute. End of story. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt qntmpkt@ wrote: --I agree with Yagyax on this. There is no serious attempt to connect the premise statements to the final conclusion; and thus the logic is seriously deficient. Grade, F. Lol, you still don't have a clue what a tautology is do you. You wouldn't even get into the class, never mind earn a grade. You're a joke, and seriously zero logic, nor one rational sentence from you whatsover. Truly pathetic. How can you say there is no serious attempt, when you have offered nothing whatsoever. Your guts are churning with guilt at the emptyness of your soul. You can actually feel that right now can't you. It is eating you and you cannot stop it. I am sorry for your fate, but you brought it upon yourself little man. Stop wasting my time with your strawman arguments and irrational statements. OffWorld - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yagyax yagyax@ wrote: ---Thanks, Bronte!...precisely what I said. Those that say Life is Bliss have arrived at that conclusion through direct experience. One would have difficulty arriving at that conclusion through logic alone. You are entirely wrong and self-deluded about that. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Signposts that MMY is not enlightened
--But Shakti comes from the teacher, igniting the student's Shakti.
This helps eradicate obstacles to the immediate apprehensionof Pure
Consciousness.
A dirt clod is equally The Absolute or, emptiness, compared to
MMY or a Buddha; but dirt clods don't help much. Therefore, there
are other ingredients that should be identified as evolution
facilitators..
.
- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@
wrote:
Some good points.
On different responses to darshan, MMY made clear, at least from
his
side, and presumably he was pretty attuned to the dynamics of SBS'
darshan, if not of a much larger group, by tradition.
{Paraphrasing} 'It all comes from the student.The student thinks
it
all comes from the teacher, but it is not so. The teacher is the
well
head. The water from the well flows in which ever way it is
tapped.
The well does nothing. Its all from the student. Like a golden
chain
is attached between teacher an student. And then everything
flows.
The
teacher has nothing to do with the chain. Its all in the student.'
[this was a paraphrase not a direct quote.]
Very interesting point. Thanks !
[FairfieldLife] Re: Challenge -- say something true
--There are some non-sequiturs in the paragraph below. It says you are at home in that (the dynamic aspect of life). Then it says Being at home, therefore you are happy. Non-Sequitur. There are plenty of creatures at home but grossly unhappy. Then it says Therefore life is bliss. Doesn't follow at all!. Last, it says all else is illusion. There's a problem here. What is the all else?? This is shaping up to be a tautology. The conclusion life is bliss may be true but it's not supported by the supposed logic of the previous statements. Existence exists, therefore interaction of the full potential of existence - its opposite potentials of point and infinity - occurs. Therefore activity occurs, therefore dynamism flourishes and propogates. You are that existence and its inherent dynamism. Therefore you are at home in that. Being at home, therefore you are happy in this universe, which is your cherished home where you grew up as a species. Therefore life is bliss, because you are always at home in this universe. All else is illusion. Therefore, life is bliss. All else is self-illusion, ie.untrue. OffWorld Tom T: You have now *got* the Byron Katie system down pat. Her questions lead one to the conclusion you are asking those here to come to. Awesome!. Tom
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri Ravi Shankar on Feelings
--In other words, most descriptions of E. are fraught with a degree of error; and/or are incomplete, and may include contradictions. Nevertheless, it's amusing and sometimes informative to try! FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip I worked with a teacher for many years who per- sonified the I can't tell you the 'truth' about enlightenment because there IS no 'truth' about enlightenment that can be put into words philos- ophy I have been rappin' about recently. snip And so what happened, with all the care that he took to make this point -- over and over and over and over and over, for almost two decades? Many of his former students regularly do *exactly* what he told them not to. They glom onto some quote, delivered in a particular context, to a particular audience, from and about a particular state of consciousness, and they try to turn it into some cosmic rule or guideline or piece of incontrovertible dogma. Go figure. You mean, a quote like: I can't tell you the 'truth' about enlightenment because there IS no 'truth' about enlightenment that can be put into words?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Challenge -- say something true
--Maybe you were a Conqueror Worm, a genuine evolutionary hero. But see, amid the mimic rout A crawling shape intrude! A blood-red thing that writhes from out The scenic solitude! It writhes!it writhes!with mortal pangs The mimes become its food, And seraphs sob at vermin fangs In human gore imbued. Outout are the lightsout all! And, over each quivering form, The curtain, a funeral pall, Comes down with the rush of a storm, While the angels, all pallid and wan, Uprising, unveiling, affirm That the play is the tragedy, Man, And its hero the Conqueror Worm. r - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, billy jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure that I should reply to you. You must be a devil since Sin is the better part of your name - and don't tell me its Sine. I think it's a sign. As far as Vaj is concerned, I wouldn't want to speak for him since he is the author of his own arguments. I'm actually waiting for this clarification myself. And by the way - I take great pride in my lowly origins, even lower than the ordinary maggot you reference in your comment. As a former shit-eating larvae, I do in fact claim a super-rapid ascent through the evolutionary strata of complex organisms. I have done extensive past-life research into my odious prior incarnations and have found the startling truth. Starting from my introduction into the earth realm as a fecal larvae, I transformed into an extremely large and irritating fly, able to viciously bite large sweat-emitting mammals. This lead to my rather rapid demise from a vigorous fly-swat. Next incarnation - grain-devouring rodent, soon dispelled by suffocating poison, terribly painful but quickly liberating. After that I launched deeper into the mammalian realm as a boar, enabling me to recognize and somehow choose to identify as a predator rather than helpless prey. Next came a wonderfully deceptive incarnation as a jackal - the key incarnation that caused me to become human. As I remember it, I was tearing out the entrails of a large mammal we had felled. The animal wasn't dead yet and when it looked up in shock, horror and agony at me eating it while still alive, I looked into its eyes and saw myself - not literally but rather another desperately entombed intelligence, just like myself, the jackal. This caused me to suddenly generate the genuine idea oh, its just like me, and this in spite of the fact that the other animal looked nothing like me. That was it - birth of an idea unbound by particularity and able to appreciate something authentically generalized and universal. In other words, I recognized a universal - the defining characteristic of human nature according to Socrates of Athens. After this pivotal event, I took a quick series of human incarnations, lowly and serf-like at first but later more confident and assertive. From plebeian to patrician was just a couple of incarnations and then wham, I was reborn into 20th century Europe and then here into the new world. Now my jyotish chart shows that I'll be reborn into the deva realm after death, obviously because I still can't tell the difference between purusha and the three guna-s. However, I don't feel bad because I figure I'll see everybody else here on FFL in that land of bliss, except Vaj, since we've all been deceived by Mahesh except him. So aren't you really impressed at my rapid evolution? Maybe I should try and get promoted to a local, divinized logos like the Mormons claim (they say it is the next step). Maybe it would even beat twenty dark-eyed virgins. Hmm Emptybill's a goin' higher heh,heh sinhlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recent Activity 3 New Members 1 New Files Visit Your Group Ads on Yahoo! Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. Special K Challenge on Yahoo! Groups Find shape-up tips and tools. HDTV Support The official Samsung Y! Group for HDTVs and devices. . Thanks, billy jim! During my first 6 weeks in the Army long ago they used to call us maggots. - Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The fallacy is that a *Me* can Gain Realization
---You're confusing unreal with non-existent. Relative existence (i.e. things in the sense of being apart from Consciousness), are unreal, but the relative things, people, etc; are not non- existent. They exist, but not as agreed upon by those ignorant of the Self. Your Guru still exists, does he not?...as a person, an individual, apart from other Gurus? Cf. Flanagan's interesting ideas on why a relative universe exists at all. Actually his line of questioning parallels similar themes current in physics: Why the universe? Nobody knows for sure but from a statistical point of view, the probability that something exists (something relative) is more probable (in fact, infinitely more probable), then nothing existing. Ramana never said he didn't exist, relatively speaking. In his context, the new I is the Self; but the I may ALSO refer to the individual, Ramana Maharshi. (1) In the first context, explaining what occurred when he Realized the Self on 7-17-1879: Absorption in the Self continued unbroken from that time on. Other thoughts might come and go like the various notes of music, but the I continued like the fundamental sruti note that underlies and blends with all the other notes. Whether the body was engated in talking, reading or anything else, I was still centere4d on I. (2) Then, after this experience, we find statements like this: I used to go alone and stand motionless for a long time before an image of Siva or Meenakshi or Nataraja and the 63 Saints, and as I stood there waves of emotion overwhelmed me. So what is the referent to this (2) I. Obviously, it's a body/mind that was standing motionless for a long time, is it not? One could say that this body of Ramana's was unreal but it definitely existed, otherwise he wouldn't have talked about it along with the pronoun I. So who or what is the me that Ramana mentioned, and how can you say there's no me when Ramana says there is? Again, the me is the body/mind and the capacity to emote. Then, in his farewell letter to Nagaswami, Sri Bhagavan's brother, he writes [translated]: In search of my Father I have, in obedience to his command, started from here. So what is the referent here? Again, Ramana referst to himself, as a body traveling from his home at that time to Arunachala. The Father in this context is Arunachala-Shiva. Thus, the I/me still exists, but true, such entities are not real in the sense of being separate from the Self. However, they are not non-existent. If everything relative were non-existent, then only Consciousness would exist with no BODIES capable of evolving from the maggot state through the boar stage, through the Bush stage, etc...only to realized that the whole contraption was unreal. Nevertheless, the maggots, boars, Bushes, etc, still exist. There are two possible ultimate scenarios: a universe of ONLY Consciousness, with nothing relative. OR: A universe that is Consciousness, with relative manifestations inseparable from the Self. #2 is the scenario we have, rather than #1. Get used to it. If your Guru wants NOT to be an individual, let his body just die to be eaten by Conquerer Worms, and no more relative existence. An alternative for Buddhas is to use various transformation bodies to continue uplifting various creatures in their evolutionary journal from the maggot stage, the boar stage, etc. If your Guru simply wants no existence, so be it. Ramana never said he didn't exist! His use of the I word and the me word is in the context of the body as referent. Of course, the Me can't gain realization but that's another topic, closely related. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suppose the paradox is there- maybe in thinking of the snake and string it clears it up- The significant thing is a process of ilimination for what is transcient and what is eternal. All that which is transcient has a reality to it but short lived and therefore no reality so a paradox Last week, we had a gathering so one of the newly enlightened was there. She was saying the wonder of it all- for you can never get it but yet It is there It again points to the headline of this post- as I said earlier, you will see these comments from Guru's speaking from this level of Being such as Ramana Maharishi- I don't think you will find this from TM's Maharihsi because it is not know to him There is a good purpose in poiinting out if a Master is enlightened or not. For those open to this, examination can show why this possibility exists one way or the other- then it explains why one is confused, or why one has not heard or understood these things which Ramana talks about, or very significant is that the disciple is not going to go further than the Guru. There are two newly enlightened one's in my path this year. By comparrison, Nityananda, the guru of Muktananda left his body early and stated there is
[FairfieldLife] Re: The fallacy is that a *Me* can Gain Realization
---Excuse me: Ramana's Enlightenment day was 7-17-1896. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---You're confusing unreal with non-existent. Relative existence (i.e. things in the sense of being apart from Consciousness), are unreal, but the relative things, people, etc; are not non- existent. They exist, but not as agreed upon by those ignorant of the Self. Your Guru still exists, does he not?...as a person, an individual, apart from other Gurus? Cf. Flanagan's interesting ideas on why a relative universe exists at all. Actually his line of questioning parallels similar themes current in physics: Why the universe? Nobody knows for sure but from a statistical point of view, the probability that something exists (something relative) is more probable (in fact, infinitely more probable), then nothing existing. Ramana never said he didn't exist, relatively speaking. In his context, the new I is the Self; but the I may ALSO refer to the individual, Ramana Maharshi. (1) In the first context, explaining what occurred when he Realized the Self on 7-17-1879: Absorption in the Self continued unbroken from that time on. Other thoughts might come and go like the various notes of music, but the I continued like the fundamental sruti note that underlies and blends with all the other notes. Whether the body was engated in talking, reading or anything else, I was still centere4d on I. (2) Then, after this experience, we find statements like this: I used to go alone and stand motionless for a long time before an image of Siva or Meenakshi or Nataraja and the 63 Saints, and as I stood there waves of emotion overwhelmed me. So what is the referent to this (2) I. Obviously, it's a body/mind that was standing motionless for a long time, is it not? One could say that this body of Ramana's was unreal but it definitely existed, otherwise he wouldn't have talked about it along with the pronoun I. So who or what is the me that Ramana mentioned, and how can you say there's no me when Ramana says there is? Again, the me is the body/mind and the capacity to emote. Then, in his farewell letter to Nagaswami, Sri Bhagavan's brother, he writes [translated]: In search of my Father I have, in obedience to his command, started from here. So what is the referent here? Again, Ramana referst to himself, as a body traveling from his home at that time to Arunachala. The Father in this context is Arunachala-Shiva. Thus, the I/me still exists, but true, such entities are not real in the sense of being separate from the Self. However, they are not non-existent. If everything relative were non-existent, then only Consciousness would exist with no BODIES capable of evolving from the maggot state through the boar stage, through the Bush stage, etc...only to realized that the whole contraption was unreal. Nevertheless, the maggots, boars, Bushes, etc, still exist. There are two possible ultimate scenarios: a universe of ONLY Consciousness, with nothing relative. OR: A universe that is Consciousness, with relative manifestations inseparable from the Self. #2 is the scenario we have, rather than #1. Get used to it. If your Guru wants NOT to be an individual, let his body just die to be eaten by Conquerer Worms, and no more relative existence. An alternative for Buddhas is to use various transformation bodies to continue uplifting various creatures in their evolutionary journal from the maggot stage, the boar stage, etc. If your Guru simply wants no existence, so be it. Ramana never said he didn't exist! His use of the I word and the me word is in the context of the body as referent. Of course, the Me can't gain realization but that's another topic, closely related. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron sidha7001@ wrote: I suppose the paradox is there- maybe in thinking of the snake and string it clears it up- The significant thing is a process of ilimination for what is transcient and what is eternal. All that which is transcient has a reality to it but short lived and therefore no reality so a paradox Last week, we had a gathering so one of the newly enlightened was there. She was saying the wonder of it all- for you can never get it but yet It is there It again points to the headline of this post- as I said earlier, you will see these comments from Guru's speaking from this level of Being such as Ramana Maharishi- I don't think you will find this from TM's Maharihsi because it is not know to him There is a good purpose in poiinting out if a Master is enlightened or not. For those open to this, examination can show why this possibility exists one way or the other- then it explains why one is confused, or why one has not heard or understood these things which Ramana talks about, or very
[FairfieldLife] Re: The fallacy is that a *Me* can Gain Realization
--Nope, you're wrong. There is an I after realization but it's not the delusional I as before. The referent is the body/mind, even though there's no inner core of a false identity.; and this is not only notational! The new individual is the I, and we can show that this new entity is not only notational by extrapolating to anything in general, say events. a. First, people, events, places, things, etc, (strictly in the relative sense), in any state of consciousness, are obviously notational; but beyond that, such entities have meaning, priorities, significance,; and in case of humans, various goals. For example, MMY has many goals. Who is it that has the goals? I've heard MMY say I...this and that many times. What or who is this I? Obviously, it's the body/mind, MINUS the false identification of an ilusory I. In short, before realization, I = body/mind INCLUDING the false egoic I. After, realization I= = body/mind MINUS the false egoic I. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- tertonzeno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --I disagree. The I after the illusory I vanishes and refers to something. It, the pronoun, refers the body/mind that others engage with. You have to distinguish here between a linguistic convention that is used in conversation and a subjective/phenomenological/experiential I. After Realization there certainly is a conversational I for the sack of communication. But this personal pronoun has no reference for the Realized person speaking it. In Realization there is no private psychological entity that the conversational I refers to. The idea that everything vanishes is the Neo-Advaitin trap of delusion. I can't believe anybody would fall for it. Who said everything vanishes? That is your understanding or your misunderstanding of Advaitic literature. And I agree with you, it is nonsense that Neo-Advaitic practitioners spout because they take a description of Realization and try to use it as a means of Realization resulting in absurd statements like, I don't exist yet here they are fully in waking state where there certainly is an I. Go back to MMY's SBAL: Brahman has two aspects, inseparably nondual: relative and Absolute. The relative aspect remains as a body/mind even even though there's no inner core of delusion remaining. Right, I agree with you. That inner core of delusion that you refer to is the phenomenological or subjective I. This literally is gone in Realization. There is still a mind though. There are thoughts, there are emotions, obviously there is a body, but there is absolutely no inner I or subjective sense of me that is experienced as separate and private. Nothing is there. But since the body/mind still exists, this must be the I'; but now meaning something different. Why must an I exist just because the mind and body are still around after Realization? The I - the Individual, as opposed to other individuals occupying another set of space-time components. Who occupies any set of space-time components? This is a fallacy. The body/mind does not generate the delusion of I. It is the identification of pure consciousness with body/mind that generates the delusion of an I. Patanjali uses that metaphor of a transparent jewel to desribe this in yoga sutras, Chapter 1, verse 41. The transparent jewel sits on a colored cloth and the jewel appears to be colored. So to consciousness projeted into and identified with body/mind becomes body/mind and an I is created. You will agree that MMY is (in the strictly relative sense); an individual separate from SSRS. Yes, they are two separate body/minds. I've heard MMY say I on many occasions. If he uses that pronoun, it must have a meaning, a referrent. It has a body/mind referent of course, but it has no referent for Maharishi as a subjective entity. The I is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi: everything that pertains to this person, as opposed to others. The body, mind, robe, hair, etc. Right, but again, there is no subjective, private individuality or I that Maharishi speaks from. He certainly has a body/mind; a distinct personality shaped by genes and cultural influence just as we have a body/mind shaped by genes an cultural influence. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Comment below: --- tanhlnx tanhlnx@ wrote: --Below, you ask if I is the individual. Depends upon how you define it: a. the illusory I that is the core of misidentification, or b. the individual who remains after the ignorance of misidentification is gone, and who STILL may refer to herself as I in ordinary exchanges of conversation with people. Of course this is done! It's mere convention. But your name and the personal pronoun, I don't
[FairfieldLife] Re: The fallacy is that a *Me* can Gain Realization
--Thanks, this is quite obvious if one defines the me = I; the notion of a delusional self associated with the mind as an identity separate from Pure Consciousness. This is the snake that actually is a rope. The snake doesn't exist in itself, therefore the I or me in this sense can't get Enlightened. But nobody on this forum is saying that the Me CAN gain Realization, so what's so special about your Guru? - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The enlightened say that there is no change when the body drops. People are drawn to very complicated explainations. My Guru's comments is that people hear it and dont understand it and think wow he is great. The complexity in all ways adds to keeping one from unfolding enlightenment which IS simplicity. IN my path, it is either one is enlightened or not, just like one is either pregnant or not. Any enlightened One will say the same thing- there is no me to get enlightened, there only IS, or Being- no two, only One. No it cannot be understood by intellect but if one want to believe in this aspect, since faith is going to be needed - and a Guru as well, if you buy into the concept that the guru will only take one as far as they are, then you might buy into not accepting when a guru tells you that you will become enlightened- for such a one that says this is not enlightened and therefore will not be able to guide others to enlightenment. This is the value I see in putting this statement out that a me will never become enlightened Prior to realization, the above point is very difficult to understand. In fact it can't be understood IMHO. Prior to realization consciousness and the sense of a psychological or private individual are experienced as the same. So if somebody talks about the experiential I or me vanishing in enlightenment it seems to be annihilation of consciousness itself. This seems to be the source of much of the protests regarding this point (e.g., Bronte's recent posts). But this does not happen. Prior to Realization consciousness is projected into and identified with aspects of mind so consciousness, phenomenologically, IS the mind. A powerful delusion of individuality is created. The initial step of Realization is consciousness pulling out of this identification. When this occurs there is a clear distinction between buddhi and purusha and a clear recognition that I no longer exists as a private psychological self, but is completely unbounded and non-localized. __ __ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The fallacy is that a *Me* can Gain Realization
--The statement, ...then there only IS is an incomplete description of existence. A more complete statement would be IsAS: modifications of pure Conscious such as trees, the sky, the body; etc; and all of the components that STILL make up an individual, minus the false illusory I. Therefore, should the IRC come knocking on your door (after getting Enlightened), don't say, Sorry, can't pay since there's no Me. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a very complicated post - my opinion is it serves to get the mind engaged- where as enlightenment is very simple- the me falls away, then there only IS They say that then it was known that there never was a me, it was Maya- ego is the maya- so no cosmic ego's in my path --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: qntmpkt wrote: Thanks, this is quite obvious if one defines the me = I; the notion of a delusional self associated with the mind as an identity separate from Pure Consciousness. This is the snake that actually is a rope. The snake doesn't exist in itself, therefore the I or me in this sense can't get Enlightened. But nobody on this forum is saying that the Me CAN gain Realization . . . Edg: This word gain is problematic, eh? Let me take a hack at hitting the same target. If we step back from the concept that all is illusion/dream, and we talk as if objects of consciousness were separate entities instead of undifferentiated light, then immediately we can begin to speak of gains. A film can show an actor gaining a hat, but it is only actor-blotches-of-light being associated in time, space, memory with hat-blotches. There is no real ownership of the hat on the level of unity -- no causal connections, no laws. If hat or actor are seen again, the blotches will be entirely new, different and not in the least causally connected to the previous set of blotches that were designated hat and actor. Just so do ego-blotches sometimes seem to gain enlightenment- blotches. There can be no denying that the enlightenment-blotches are an all-time reality -- always being seen with the ego-blotches, but it is not a law, because, well, enlightenment-blotches accompany ALL blotches of every ilk all the time. When the ego gets it that it is not sentient, it is said that it dies, or that the mind is killed, or that me-ness evaporates, but in terms of functionality, enlightened folks can easily keep track of their bodies and thoughts. It is not the case that after enlightenment that a person will be confused; there's no concern that not-identifying-with-the-meat-robot will cause personal physical safety concerns, or that insanity will emerge without a central controller function. These things don't happen. The enlightened can in every way function as if not enlightened in order to harmonize with the not-admitting-yet-that-they're-enlightened folks. This illusion of having an ego, can then go about its day pretending to gain things -- including its enlightenment blotches. It will be no larger a mistake than any other this is assertion of entity- hood. Like noise that comes with the train, goes with the train, is of no use to the train, but the train can't go without it, ego is just another squeak in the robot's clockworks. Ramana Maharishi and every other guru ever can hold a conversation, use the word me, make decisions, eat, etc. The only difference is that their egos will not make the mistake of thinking that the sentience that is aware of the robot is the robot's ego- functions, nor that, because this robot-ego-function is observed, it is an observer of any sort whatsoever. Instead, the ONE PRESENCE is the observer of all blotchiness. The ego doesn't actually die, because it was never alive, never existed as a separate entity except that the mind mistakenly insists it is. The mind that once was supposed-into-existence is no longer required to make a place in which observation can take place, since it is recognized that observation is an all-time reality for every speck of creation. The most distant planet, the tiniest dust mote, the unseeable quarks, the 3,578,298,657th orbit of electron number 657,536,420,543,098,708,345,456,988 of hydrogen atom number 468,394,503,476,503,542,343,243,768,001 of water molecule number 654,543,324,489,593,549,987 of the tear drop number 37 running down your cheek is duly noted -- no ego need be in attendance for absolute appreciation of any imposed definition on any arbitrarily hacked out patch o'blotches. Matthew 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. God is omnipresent -- what else needs to be said? Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: The fallacy is that a *Me* can Gain Realization
---This argument can easily lead to a Neo-Advaitin fallacy since the ME is not the sum total of an individual. The I that vanishes (or the Me) is the delusion of misidentification; but not the body itself, nor a mind, nor the skin, bones, hair;, etc; otherwise there would be no Enlightened Guru left to say anything or appear anywhere. What's left is everything that existed before Enlightenment, minus the false identity that in a delusional state, creates an I in a manner analogous to Kubrick's HAL computer. But the computer still exists; and likewise, the body/mind still exists. Also, there are other sources of delusions besides the false I associated with the body/mind. Generally, any lack of knowledge in a given area (say Economics), can easily lead to various types of delusions, or misguided opinions that miss the target. There are myriads of various delusions available to misguide people. Simply crossing a street, one can be deluded into thinking that no cars are coming in your direction. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Namaste Guru G and all G:Having things stripped bare is not an attractive offer. hahahahahah people want to have *thier* lives but to have them Enhanced. And Surrender doesn't equate with the idea that *I* can get *Realization* . N: Being striped isn't attractive ether all the slobber and bed head. Ha ha ha ha. A famous Guy once said those who lose their lives have life more abundantly. He he G:The fallacy is that a *Me* can Gain Realization. The ME may have may insights aka realizations, but Realization only takes place when the ME is no more and has dissolved or imploded into simply Absolute. N: Yes, this me is so enlightened you should all buy my ME SO SOUP. $500.99 plus tax no Guru necessary we have a digital automated one. Soup cores requires you read the work book The Grate Me and the Guru Within written by Dorkdananda. N: The oddest things are observed. One could hardly call this deep Witnessing, but have been observing ego stuff as it mixes with mind it's like all thoughts are lies and crafted in a way that no one notices, the UN reality of thought which arises seem to be made up as one goes along. Ego is just a belief system and when that system is challenging the me freaks. But there is no me just a bunch of thought patterns that made one think im this or that. It has been very different unpleasant, some times crazy seeing the world like this, there is no descriptions or thoughts that could be accurate at all because they are made up according to the ego pattern. It all seems to be a big game. And every one seems to count on that game and getting the bigger better game. So this me is nuts, what's left of it. It's a challenge to talk or remember things, mantra spontaneous in the middle of the night and just seeing through the eyes is different. And yes, practice breath surrender and grace. Oh and more surrender. Like to kick the guy's butt who invented the me along with the guy who invented the high heel. Ha ha ha ha haaa rrrar. G:i do not offer enhancements - but rather lopping off heads. hahahahaha N: What! No pet a cure? Love Nyingje Maha Shanti
[FairfieldLife] The ME
The ME: http://www.halexandria.org/dward187.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Confusion between mantras and deities in meditation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: snip Indian yogis personified the fields of nature they perceived to make the science of yoga more understandable to the general public. I heard a great lecture on this when in Cochin once. Personification also makes teachings easier to remember. A bit of synchronicity: I was looking for something in Google's archive for alt.meditation.transcendental and stumbled across the post from almost 10 years ago I'm reproducing below. I had found this essay on the Web site for the Age of Enlightenment Mall, a Fairfield operation that is apparently now defunct (at least, the URL no longer works). About The Vedic Deities The Inner Dimension of the Devas The consciousness which we experience in common as pure awareness has been described as long as man has existed in different terms. The totality of pure being which is the basis of the Cosmic Intelligence has been said to have the qualities of silence, omnipresence of love, and creative power. The ancient seers of every culture have described that Cosmic Intelligence which is formless, limitless, infinite, and pure awareness as the Mother of all Life. In ancient India, these great seers of thousands of years ago were called Rishis. They gave expression to their experiences of the unbounded Cosmic Intelligence or Self in the language of feeling. The language they used was a universal language called the Vedic Language of which Sanskrit is the present remnant. The word Veda means knowledge, so the Vedic language was a language made up of the spontaneous expressions of the heart which came about as a result of direct cognition of the qualities of the objects, concepts and emotions they experienced. For example, one Vedic word in every culture is the sound Ma. Mama is a word expressing every child's experience of their mother and is expressive of the same mother quality across all nations and civilizations. [Note: It's been suggested that the sound ma refers to mother in so many cultures not because of any inherent subtle value of the sound that is expressive of experience of the maternal quality, but simply because when a baby starts to babble, ma is the first sound it makes--all it requires is opening and closing the mouth while activating the vocal cords. The sound has been associated with the mother because the mother is usually the first one to hear the baby make it, and it's assumed the baby's first utterance would be directed at the object in its environment that is the primary focus of its attention.--JS] Similarly our word heart is derived from the Vedic sound Hrid which described the sound of the pulse of the heart. When the Rishis wanted to express the silent value of pure consciousness they gave a name Shiva. The word Shiva means silence--Shivam Shantam Advaitam Chaturtham i.e., Shiva is silence (Shantam), non-dual (Advaitam), the fourth state of awareness (Chaturtham) transcending the transitory sleep, waking and dream states. Similarly when the Rishis wanted to express the value of omnipresence of love--that consciousness seemed to them so harmonizing and unifying--they expressed that quality as Vishnu: Vish means to pervade and nu means within, i.e. that consciousness which is all pervading within. When the Rishis wanted to express the fact that the Cosmic Intelligence, their Self, was huge and creative giving rise to the whole universe they used the word Brahma. The word Brahma comes from the sound Brihat (huge). The B in Brahma stands for the formation of boundaries; the r stands for activity of creation; the a indicates expansion of creation; and the m in Brahma signified the bliss of vibrating within oneself--the cosmic hum. It is that cosmic joy in waves of bliss that allows the universe to be maintained in ever expanding waves of life. Naturally, some Rishis felt that these three qualities of creative energy, omnipresence of love, and the quality of silence or pure beingness needed to be appreciated in terms of femininity. They felt that Cosmic Intelligence was nurturing and full of the lovingness that a mother would have so they expressed that feeling in terms of expressions reflecting the female nature (Mother Nature) of each of these sound-qualities previously mentioned. So some Rishis said that the silent nature of pure consciousness is Shivaa (feminine term like Shiva); other Rishis said that Cosmic Intelligence was omnipresent love as a Mother Divine called Vaishnavi (feminine form of the word Vishnu); and yet other Rishis expressed the creative energy of the Cosmic Self as Brahmi (feminine form of Brahma). In addition to the three primary aspects of the Cosmic Self as Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva there was another value
[FairfieldLife] Re: Close encounters of the Advaita kind.
---right, but the article is a parody of Ramesh and is highly critical of his version of Advaita (derived from Nisargadatta Maharaj) but curiously twisted in a perverse way since it seems to explain' everything with pat non-sensical phrases which lead only to circular arguments - kind of like saying what will be, will be. Anything that Ramesh can't offer an explanation for is explained away quickly by his all purpose phrase: It's all part of the total functioning. If, during the interview there was a mugging taking place 20 feet away, Ramesh no doubt say no problem, it's all part of the total functioning of the universe. Such tautologies are useless. I Like Flanagan better. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tertonzeno tertonzeno@ wrote: The euphoric nihilism of Ramesh Balsekar. http://www.wie.org/j20/balsekar.asp I certainly do not experience my life as Ramesh Balsekar describes, but my brief exposure to his ideas occurred during my dark night of the soul, and I really enjoyed and appreciated his perspective. Looking back, I think the reason I enjoyed him so much is that at the time, my entire identity was bound up in I/me, and Ramesh's perspective offered me a glimpse of the absolute polar opposite of my own.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hi, Lurk
---Very good!...now on to getting a Rainbow Light Body. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: Sounds like boring familylife. Lurk: Sorry to say I don't find life boring, family or otherwise. Nab: Anyone can have children - and they do ! Lurk: Anyone can, of course. But spending the time to try to give them a foundation of self confidence happiness- that's another story. Nab: Not having them is a great blessing. Lurk: Nab, I guess I just wasn't able to achieve bramacharya like you evidently have. I tried, but I couldn't deny who I was. And I must say, I feel my spiritual growth has benefitted. YMMV. lurk
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-Annihilation of Everything Worth Anything (Was From a realized devotee of RM ...)
--- The neutered people are the Neo-Advaitins, who are trapped in a form of delusion (even if Enlightened); delusions are possible on many levels; chief among them is the notion that there's no individual there. There IS, but simply lacking in misidentification of the I. What remains is the individual (having a social nature, a body, faults, conditionings, etc). n FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bronte Baxter Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:39 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Self-Annihilation of Everything Worth Anything (Was From a realized devotee of RM ...) Bronte writes: I, by contrast, regularly interact with people whom I consider Self-realized, many of whom have specialized perceptual and cognitive abilities, and most of them would agree with my characterization of true enlightenment. So before you send me back to the drawing board, you'd best come up with a better argument, mister. LOL, maybe we should get my enlightened people and your enlightened people together for a Sharks/Jets-style rumble. But seriously, if they agree with your characterization of true enlightenment, does that mean that they admit to having been neutered, or are you referring to the supposedly neutered people as not truly enlightened. If so, can you give us some examples of some of those? Shankara, Jesus, Buddha, etc. Did they cut deals with the gods? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.18/1007 - Release Date: 9/13/2007 9:48 PM
[FairfieldLife] Doin' the Leela
from the Satyam Nadeen website: DO'IN THE LEELA I'm not source, but object not doer, but player It's all so laughable. I'm God presence frolicking the leela Wrong or right is the melody good, bad, beautiful, and ugly are the versus And the beat goes on! I see souls not roles eternal companions changing partners as we doe se doe to the plan. I once saw lack now I see the Kingdom of God, I am that. Dancing the leela just sway to the rhythm clap the beat and scream, I am original innocence. --Kolika
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev pics
-I buy it. To err is human. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: IMO, he looks a bit sad or worried in most of these pics: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/photogallery.htm I guess he knew what the world would have to go through during the 20th century. Or how MMY would start selling supernormal powers and Enlightenment at $1 million a pop to spiritual gullible americans, all proceeds going into an offshore account in the jersey islands named Brahmananda Saraswati Trust, which finances real estate development and lavish lifestyles of the varma/srivasta clans. Slam dunk!! I guess I never figured that Guru Dev is that weak, blind and stupid- - That a saint who could make himself dynamically known to many after his bodily death, who apparently organized a massive yagya to end world war two, who manifested money out of the ether, who lived unaided in the forest from the age of nine, would be incapable of using his highly developed intuition to pick a worthy successor to spread his message, one who he even provided with the mantras useful for the world, on his deathbed? Of all those who he could of chosen, at his pinnacle of wisdom and popularity as Shankaracharya of the North, of all of those attracted to him, he choses someone who is greatly flawed, to destroy and cast doubt on all of his work? Sorry, but I ain't buyin' it.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev pics
--I agree...but then are you denying Guru Dev the capacity to err simply because he's Divine? - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt qntmpkt@ wrote: -I buy it. To err is human. As far as I can tell, human is an infinite speactrum of clarity and experience, ranging from the animal to the Divine. To declare that it is all prone to error seems to be a thought based on a narrow slice of the human experience. I am not doubting your experience, only I don't think that your statement on error is representative of all human experience, including Guru Dev's.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: New MMY audios
--Thanks, Vaj...I've forwarded all your addresses to Jerry Jarvis, who appreciates it. For a TM antagonist, you sure are helpful!. Investigation into the nature of God, part 1 http://www.box.net/shared/ebynp13uak Kundalini, sushumna, kriya http://www.box.net/shared/me1lhgf512
[FairfieldLife] Re: yagya and jyotish testimonials
-- No financial interest. I just sent in $715 for a Mother Divine yagya in October. The group facilitors - Ken and Janet Krumpe - act as intermediaries for transferring the $ from Hawaii to India, saving sponsors like myself from the trouble of sending the $ to India. (which I don't like since, although Western Union is reliable, they tack on a hefty fee). I realize there are a lot of Yagya skeptics and I appreciate their healthy skepticism since this will spur me on to finding some tangible evidence of the benefits of yagyas. First step is to closely observe any unusual happenings around the time of the yagya, such as 1. extraordinary instances of synchronicity, 2. visions of pundits in the dream state, or any unusual dreams 3. in general, anything out of the ordinary; OTOH this could be a contra-indication since good could simply be nothing happening at all -- as opposed to getting run over by a truck. But in this case the evidence would be lacking. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very appealing website. Do you have any personal experience rather than posting those of others? Do you have any financial interest in this group yourself? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tertonzeno tertonzeno@ wrote: http://www.expertvedicastrology.com/index.php?pr=Testimonials
[FairfieldLife] Re: An Inspiring Visit to Baba Muktananda
---Yes, definitely bizarre! (I've seen it before). In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: But now, Peter, asking a professional out of curiosity, *is* there a psychological term or profile for someone who obsesses on making other people apologize to them, or apologize, period? I don't know if Peter would agree but you named the term when you said obsesses as I think it would be obsessive compulsive behavior which I have mentioned here before. I think TM increases it and may well be what is referred to as spontaneity by the movement. I know a number of meditators that feel they are obsessive compulsive. Obsessive compulsive disorder certainly fits quite a few people who have posted here, most of them interestingly from the TB camp. But in my view there is something *else* going on when someone obsesses about trying to make someone apologize to them, or to other people. It's beyond the nanny or hall monitor mentality, and moves into the realm of a real power play launched by someone who simply doesn't *have* any personal power of their own, and wants to eradicate it in those who *do* have a modicum of personal power. Whatever it is, it's weird...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Celebrating the rising sunshine ,of Global Raam Raj, 28 August 2007
---(Brahman has nothing to do with pipelines). The statement was that Brahman realization implied integrity, a commonly accepted term needing no further clarification. But I disagree with this since a Brahman-realized person can be lacking in integrity. (Cf. below): Thus, the statement MMY is Brahman-realized and therefore he's a man of integrity ...would be a non-sequitur. And though I didn't think I'd have to clarify this with someone misappropriating the high falutin' handle of mathatbrahman, but the attainment of Brahman is synonymous with God. Brahman = God. Has nothing to do with pipelines.:-) In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mathatbrahman mathatbrahman@ wrote: --Right, (statements below) about as true as saying that a. The Mormon Presidents have had a direct pipeline to God b. therefore, whatever Brigham Young did was perfectly attuned to God's will. No no, when do.rflex said you're fooling yourself, he meant the self is a *MORON*, not a *MORMON*.:-) And though I didn't think I'd have to clarify this with someone misappropriating the high falutin' handle of mathatbrahman, but the attainment of Brahman is synonymous with God. Brahman = God. Has nothing to do with pipelines.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jesus Did Not Die For Our Sins.'
---Precisely, well done authfriend! In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 9/4/07 10:19:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, MDixon6569@ writes: In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , MDixon6569@, M snip [quoting Isaiah] And because of what he has experienced, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. I will give him the honors of one who is mighty and great, because he exposed himself to death. He was counted among those who were sinners. He bore the sins of many and interceded for sinners. Nothing about this servant's being the only-begotten Son of God, though, is there? Mighty and great, but nothing about being divine. There are approximately 127 prophesies in the Old Testament, might be a few more, none give all the information. However, Isaiah 53- 2 My servant grew up in the Lord's presence like a tender green shoot, sprouting from a dry root in dry and sterile ground. I believe is referring to the virgin birth. Maybe (although it could be a reference to a previously barren woman suddenly being able to conceive by normal human means). But it's not explicitly about the servant being the only-begotten Son of God. It was John the Baptist who said that when he baptized Jesus, he heard the voice of God say This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. But that's in the Christian Scriptures, it isn't a prophecy from the Hebrew Scriptures. The prophecy does say he is without sin and the Bible does say that no man since Adam has come into this world without sin. Just how *mighty and great* would one have to be to take on the sins of the world. Be exposed to death, to rise and have a multitude of Children and heirs and have kings stand before him speechless, clearly a reference to his Divine reign as King of Kings. Sorry, but it's not an explicit characterization of the servant as the only-begotten Son of God. One last thing to ad here is that Isaiah also said the suffering servant did no wrong and deceived no one and if indeed this prophecy is about Jesus, Jesus always referred to God as my Father. Only once does he call Him God and that is when he had became the embodiment of sin on the cross and said my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me. Of course there are many other examples of Jesus referring to himself as the Son of God and the Son of man. Son of Man, yes, a common expression referring to human beings. But none to being the only-begotten Son of God. Referring to God as Father is, of course, standard in Judaism, so that's no indication of anything. My point is that the Hebrew Scripture prophecies refer to an extraordinary human being who is obviously favored by God but do not indicate that he is to be of uniquely divine origin or status. That was an invention of Christianity that isn't found in the Hebrew Scriptures, and it's why Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah.
[FairfieldLife] Re: So then, what's the purpose of the devil?
---Satan's job as the tempter and deceiver is already over. Satan appeared to me in a brilliant vision in the dream state in 1998, and has since been converted to Buddhism. I am now working closely with him on a daily basis helping to rescue stranded souls in the lower non- physical planes of existence. As a forceful ruler of that air element, Satan with a strong wind can immediately catapault souls directly into the higher planes; and with the assistance of many Pure Land Buddhas and Bodhisattvas (that is, Bodhisattvas can also be Buddhas); the souls are given tutorial assistance in various sadhanas to assist in their journey into the realm of pure Consciousness. But he has not disappeared, by any means, nor will he. Satan lives! In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To tempt, of course! When we have met all of Satan's(maya)challenges we will have risen in stature and character and will be fit to enter the kingdom of God. Is that not the purpose of temptation...to build character? When all men have overcome, Satan's job will be finished, and he will simply disappear. That's why we're here, to grow! Be ye therefore *perfect*, even as your Father is heaven is perfect. Meditation allows us shortcuts, but the slow route of trial and error also ensures complete masteryas Max Heindel would say, All will be saved.
[FairfieldLife] A Christian fundie on Creme's Maitreya
MAITREYA - Maitreya, the Lord Master expected by the Buddhists, is, in fact, a fiction created by the New Ager Benjamin Creme... he says it is not a religion, but he advises people to meet weekly in Maitreya Groups to create good Energy... - Benjamin Creme, born in Glasgow, Scotland in 1922, is a co-editor of the New Age magazine Share International, and considers himself to be like another John the Baptist, the precursor of Maitreya, to make the initial approach to the public, to help create a climate of hope and expectancy. - Maitreya, the Master, in Creme's fiction, is supposed to be the Christ expected by the Christians, the Messiah expected by the Jews, the reincarnation of Krishna expected by the Hindus, the Iman Mahdi expected by the Muslims, the Lord Maitreya expected by the Buddhists. - Creme attracted much attention in the early 1980s announcing the coming of the Lord Maitreya by 1982; whe Maitreya failed to appear, Creme's popularity quikly died. - However, Creme says that Maitreya is already alive, emerged from the Himalayas in 1977, and is living in London, in the Pakistani- Indian community as an ordinary man... but on the Day of Declaration the international television networks will be linked together, and Maitreya will be invited to speak to the world; we will see his face on television, but each of us will hear his words telepathically. - Creme says that Maitreya is already making unexpected apparitions in different countries, like in Kenya in 1991, in Uganda with the healing of 400 patients with AIDS, and the healing waters in Tlacote (Mexico), Nordenau (Germany), Nadana (India) ... but all of them unsubstantiated... he appears and disappears, without anybody's notice, claims the fiction story of Creme!. - Creme claims Maitreya predicted the fall of Communism and dozens of world social and political events, but all unsubstantiated, predicted after they had happened!. - A major event predicted by Maitreya, through Creme, in 1988, was an international stock market crash... but now, in 1997, still did not happened! - Creme calls him the Master of all Masters, including the Master of Jesus Christ... the Head of the Spiritual Hierarchy of Masters, the World Teacher, the Lord Maitreya... though Maitreya calls himself the Teacher. ... For Creme, Maitreya means the Lord of Joy and Gladness, dedicated to the reunification of all religions and humanity, and for the economic, social, and political welfare of the whole world. - For me, Maitreya is another Hindu-Buddhist cult, a false Messiah... Maitreya is not God, as Creme claims... the face of Maitreya exists, a good looking Hindu or Buddhist man, as given by the fiction story of Creme.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shankara on the Two Paths
---thanks, so overall; what are some advantages of Buddhism over Shankara, if anything? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, billy jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Swami Muktananada's blue pearl is the title he gave to the nila- bindu (blue point-essence) experienced at the ajna-chakra. Shankara does not talk about the nila-bindu although in his Bha.Gita commentary on Bh.G. 8.10 he does discuss the Ajna-chakra prayaana-kaale: At the time of death, after first bringing the mind under control in the lotus of the heart, and then lifting up the prana through the nadi going upward - by gradually gaining control over the rudiments of nature such as earth, etc.; and after that, samyak aasveshya: having fully fixed; Praana: (life energy); madhye: between; the bhruvoh: eye-brows, without losing attention; achalena manasaa: with an unwavering mind; he, the yogin possessed of such wisdom, yuktah: imbued, united; bhaktyaa: with devotion, deep love; ca eva: as also; yoga-balena: with the strength of yoga i.e. imbued with that strength also, consisting in steadfastness of the mind arising from accumulation of impressions resulting from samadhi; upaiti: reaches; tam: that; divyam: resplendent; param: supreme; purusham: person - described as the Omniscient, the Ancient, etc. However, Shankara based his descriptions of yogic practice upon more than one source. In fact he described a path of return which co- identifies the purusha in the heart, the purusha in the right-eye and the purusha in the Sun (hiranyagarbha) as manifestation of the same purusha, the source-being who is transcendent over unmanifest maya. Muktananada's lineage was a siddha lineage, just like the lineage of Paramahansa Yogananada. Both contain practices focusing upon the nila-bindu, but, (IMO) Yogananda's is more extensive in teaching a wide range of knowledge and techniques and is also more balanced in understanding and weighing the various aspect of the yogic knowledge that can be imparted to sadhakas. (One example is the overwhelming importance he placed upon the meditator dwelling in deep, silent awareness at the end of any meditative practice). Disclaimer: Please note that I have received diksha from one of Yogananda's disciples [brother Anandamoy] and have also received diksha from Swami Prajnanananda - disciple of Swami Hariharananda, (guru-brother of Yogananada). I have not received diksha from Muktananada or Swami Chidvilasananda, his lineage heir. (You may therefore weigh my judgments as you please.) The nila-bindu is the yogic archetype for the experience of the three worlds (tri-lokya). Putting it into Buddhist term which you will understand - 1. the outer golden ring is the mano-prana mandala of kama-loka, which terminates not in the Vaishwanara palace of Indra upon Mt. Meru but in Hiranyagarbha, the golden embryo, the deity in the sun - (symbolized by the Narmadeshvar lingam prior to the bifurcation of male/female into the lingam/yoni). 2. the radiant, blue sky-like expanse (inside the golden aura) is the vijnana-mandala of rupa-arupa loka, the realm of meditative dhyana-samapatti-s. According to Shri Yukteshwar it is the karana- chitta, the casual realm of pure ideation (not mere thinking but noetic-eidetic cognition). 3. the central bindu (described as being either in the form of the Guru, the Ishta-devata (Yidam) or a five-pointed star) is the door to the divine realm (not arupa-loka but lokuttara). This descriptive model is not quite the same as the one used in the Upanishads. It is a later yogic model arising from the yogic siddha tradition. In contrast, Shankara uses the Upanishadic description of the sushumna primarily as the nadi exiting from the heart (hrid) which ascends to the center between the eye-brows (bhru-madya) and terminates at the peak (shiras) of the head. This is the method which Shankara describes in the Bhag.Gita as the Krama-mukti patha, the path of gradual realization of the conditioned Brahman. It is not the same as the Shaiva (shivite) path of kundalini-yoga nor is it the same as the Vaishnava (Vishnuite) path of return found in the Panchratra lineages of yogic meditation equally profound. This is all that I have time to do today and is probably more than you wanted to know anyway. Interesting question though. tertonzeno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---How about the Blue Pearl? What does Shankara say about that? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, billy jim emptybill@ wrote: The problem here is in characterizing Shankara's views only in terms of his commentary on the Brahma Sutras. snip Recent Activity 2 New Members Visit Your Group Search Ads Get new customers. List your web site in Yahoo! Search. Official Samsung Yahoo! Group for supporting your HDTVs and
[FairfieldLife] Clearing karma through CHO
http://www.zangdokpalri.org/chod.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY Kundalini audio
--Vaj, were you the person who posted the audio addresses? Thanks. I forwarded the addresses to Jerry Jarvis - he says he's very grateful. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 1, 2007, at 11:21 AM, BillyG. wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Yes, that's because kundalini is the essence (rasa) of prana and prana is the essence of life. I think you meant 'prana' and 'apana'yes? No.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scope of Desire Fulfillment, Scope of Wholenes Swallowing Particles.
--One of the limitations on the fulfillment of desires is energy: obviously, energy is required in varying degrees in diverse forms. Money may be seen as concretized energy. Enlightened people have anywhere from little to lots of energy, just like ordinary people; and thus their capacity to fulfill desires is likewise, ordinary, not extraordinary. I've heard MMY's claim(s) that he can help people fulfill their desires, only if the persons donate a large sum of money to him. Sounds fishy, doesn't it; or perhaps snake oil. A prayer cloth might prove to be more effective. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Curtis. Peg Leg Sam -- a classic. (No relation to Toothpick Sad Sam Jones I suppose -- (now thats an obscure reference)). Sort of reminds me of what I envision MMY or others might say when asked to fly. I could, but I don't really like flying. Which brings me to Rory and Jim. Guys, I appreciate your responses. And I have understood them I think, and appreciate the views you expressed. But you didn't directly answer my question. Not that you are obligated to. Jim, you sort of implied an answer -- that you weres peeved at Bush and Iraq -- and this expressed disatisfaction might be an agent for change. Which implies, to me, your ability to fulfill desires doesn't extend to big things like Iraq. So its a limited qualified type of desire fulfillment. Same with wholeness swallowing and healing particles -- though thats more Rory's story. Your wholeness appears not Whole or powerful enough to swallow and heal the traumatized particle of Iraq. Or some other constraint I am not aware of. Rory you were a bit more oblique in your answers, skirting the question. A first for you. :) Loving what is is fine -- though see my counter post that you inspired -- Loving What Isn't. Your response has more of a Peg Leg Sam quality perhaps. Perhaps you could heal Iraq if you desired, or your Wholenes swallowed that traumatized particle, but you choose not to. Its all just Perfect as it is. Nothing needs healing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: MMY's out for his obvious failure in the fulfillment of his stated desires is that Nature guided it or that the people's deservability wasn't high enough. It reminds me of a story Peg Leg Sam the harmonica playing hobo told. He was playing to draw crowds for a medicine show where the guy was selling the legendary snake oil. He told the people that it would cure snake bites and it was 500 times thinner than water so it would cure all ailments. He used to hold up a live rattler for attention but this time when he was putting it back in the box the snake bit him. As he was screaming for a doctor the crowd asked why don't you just use your magical snake oil? The crowd caught on that he wanted nothing to do with his own medicine and kept screaming for a real doctor. The crowd ran them both out of town! People selling fulfillment of all desires are exploiting a beautiful human ability to dream and have hope. Once you put in the stipulation that nature can override your desires or that people might not deserve the good you wish on them, you end up with a theory without falsifiability. Same rigged system with fulfillment of prayers, if it doesn't work it was God's will. Think anybody on a plane falling out of the sky ever tried praying their way out of it? How did that work out for them? Step right up, step right up... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Whether the surge works or not, I just want this damned war to be over soon, and for us as a country to recognize that it has solved nothing.:-) This is not a gotcha moment. I am trying to understand what you (and Rory -- its one body/mind/mouth) really mean when you describe your abilities -- and how far they reach. If you are able to resolve unwhole particles, nurturing , culturing or inducing wholeness in them, and hopefully healing traumatized and negativity imprisoned particles, Why don't you? Why don't you have wholeness, and/or your wholeness, swallow these errant particles -- making them whole? If you have these skills, why is the middles east not flourishing in peace? Same with your abilities to easily and swiftly fulfill all of your desires. Are you desires limited to a small domain of your localized relative life? Don't you desire lasting peace in the ME -- and throughout the world? Don't you wish for peace and prosperity in Darfur? Don't you desire to a ready and affordable solution to Global Warming? Don't you wish a light would turn on inside GWB? Don't you desire a cure for cancer? If
[FairfieldLife] Interesting product - Laminaria japonica
kombu seaweed extract, featured at: http://www.tinyurl.com/yvrjow some of the active ingredients: Organic Iodine feeds the Thyroid Gland, which controls metabolism and promotes maturation of the nervous system. Iodine is important for thyroid disorders, wherever underactive or overactive. Fucoxanthin(brown caratenoid pigment) that is found in brown seaweed promotes abdomonal weight loss and helps to fight diabetes. Click to read more... Alginate is a natural absorbent of radioactive elements, heavy metals and free radicals. It has the unique ability of binding heavy metals and radioactive elements to its own molecules. As the Alginate cannot be broken down by the bile or saliva and cannot be absorbed by the body, it is secreted from the body together with the heavy metals and radioactive substances. Fucoidan causes certain types of rapidly growing cancer cells to self- destruct. Promoting apoptosis (self-destruction of cancer cells), Fucoidan helps to naturally eliminate harmful cells from organism. Laminarin is a polysaccharide helpful in the prevention and treatment of cardiovascular diseases.
[FairfieldLife] Jesuits say take word of God to Second Life
---Is there (cyber) space for God? Spadaro aaka in his article which says there are already virtual churches and temples serving countless religions. He quotes a Swedish Muslim who says his avatar prays regularly as he prays in real life. Spadaro warns the uninitiated that the erotic dimension is very present in Second Life, that people can buy genitalia for their avatars in a world that is open to any form of erotic stimulation from prostitution to pedophilia. Jesuits say take word of God to Second Life http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSL2777496320070727 http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSL2777496320070727 Judaism on the other hand permits much freedom of belief on this subject?. http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm Why are people in the US focused on the beliefs of Christianity and Islam (which appear to be considered inferior) but never dare mention the beliefs and practices of Judaism (which are believed to be superior)? Surely, not only do we need to recognize what is bad, but we also need to be shown what is good, no? --- End forwarded message ---
[FairfieldLife] Re: On the Nature of Evil, Compassion, and Enlightenment
--1. Outer behavior can't infringe upon MMY's Enlightened status. Can't judge a book by the cover. What's underneath is the true Reality. However, Mr. Knapp has seemingly tapped into a legitimate vast pool of discord. As to the complainers, the supposed victims, it's clear they are: 2. Just that, complainers, wimps, losers; who who simply should have stopped when the red flags went up. Maybe they'll learn better in their next incarnations. 3. I'd bet none of the instances of injury could stand up in a court of law. Mr. Knapp, let's see the stats on the lawsuits and if any of the victims were awarded damages. 4. Mr. Knapp has a monetary vested interest in stirring up a hornet's nest of controversy since he gets paid by the supposed victims of abuse. This invalidates his crummy ploy. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the Nature of Evil, Compassion, and Enlightenment Posted by John M. Knapp, LMSW at 7/26/2007 02:28:00 PM A rougher version of this post appeared in the comments section. A reader requested that I polish it up and post it on the main blog. The result is below. A note about my posts and writing style. My feelings about most subjects are more tentative than my direct writing style would indicate. I hope that readers who take issue with my posts feel free to comment in the unmoderated comments section. I am more than open to taking your viewpoints into account and changing my perspective. Being compassionate doesn't preclude making judgments about behavior -- only about people themselves. I suspect the Maharishi, the founder of Transcendental Meditation, is mentally ill. I reached this suspicion based on observing his actions for decades stretching back at least to the introduction of his TM- Sidhi program in the 1970s. As I've stated before, if he were actually under my care, I would want to rule out narcissism and sociopathy. But I feel strongly that you can't judge a person's mental health through their writings or public appearances and that is the only way I know the Maharishi. I certainly don't claim to know he is mentally ill. But as he is a public figure with the power to harm many people, I think that speculation about his character is certainly fair game. Please note that the phrase rule out is jargon in psychotherapy that means that steps should be taken to test the therapist's suspicions -- nothing more. I am not judging the Maharishi's mental health, therefore -- but I am saying it is suspect. The Maharishi's actions go well beyond those of an ambitious businessperson, in my opinion. I've counseled over 2,000 current and former TMers since I founded Trancenet.net back in 1995. I'm sure there are many, many more who have had no contact with me. I believe that thousands of people have been harmed psychologically, emotionally, financially, career-wise, and more by their time spent with the Maharishi. Some have actually lost their lives through violence or suicide. The DeNaro affidavit makes it clear that the Maharishi has known for decades about the damage his teachings have been causing -- and that he simply doesn't care. If that isn't evil, what is? Any ambitious pharmaceutical executive that disregarded dangerous side effects of his medicines would be subject to criminal prosecution. Shouldn't we judge a spiritual teacher, if anything, more harshly? A commenter has suggested that perhaps our differences over the Maharishi's actions spring from disagreements about what constitutes enlightenment. I think the Maharishi has given clear criteria for his ideas of enlightenment, and since he has taken billions of dollars in exchange for teaching students techniques he claimed would bring about enlightenment, I think it only fair to judge him by his own rules. He spoke of an enlightened person as always exhibiting spontaneous right action, exhibiting compassion, friendliness, and happiness. More, he has stated that an enlightened individual is invincible -- saying no enemy could even arise for an enlightened person or country. Please note that the Maharishi cannot even enter the US, Switzerland, or India because of charges of tax evasion, he has been found liable in US civil court for fraud and more, and there is no shortage of Maharishi critics on this Blog and elsewhere in countries around the world. I say he doesn't exhibit virtues to any cosmic degree. Perhaps you feel differently. I think, since he has held himself out as being in the business of spiritual development, to compare his legacy to that of other saints that humankind has produced is only fair. Can anyone say that he shows the elements of compassion that Jesus, Gandhi, Buddha, and others have shown? I would like to hear that argument made. Jesus sought
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is Byron Katie's the work a form of moodmaking?
---Thanks, true, but why are you talking about it? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: You're enlightened, and you refuse to even *think* that you might not be. Did I get that right, Jim? You are missing what I and many others have already said again and again here. Enlightenment is not experienced on the level of thinking. It is a state of Being. This is not my original expression-- All of the gurus and spiritual teachers say this also. Given your background, I am surprised that you don't know this yet. Your level of ignorance astounds me.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is Byron Katie's the work a form of moodmaking?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: In the above example, Rory is embracing absolute POV 'criticizing is projecting our own inner pain on others' and therefore taking an extreme POV, rather than embracing the paradox: all is one and assholes still exist. Because Rory takes an extreme, absolutist position, he falls into accepting and rejecting and therefore, polarities. Whether an asshole actually exists or not is impossible for me to say. I am rejecting that my suffering has an external reality, yes. If that makes me somehow falling into polarities, then so be it :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is Byron Katie's the work a form of moodmaking?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: In the above example, Rory is embracing absolute POV 'criticizing is projecting our own inner pain on others' and therefore taking an extreme POV, rather than embracing the paradox: all is one and assholes still exist. Because Rory takes an extreme, absolutist position, he falls into accepting and rejecting and therefore, polarities. Whether an asshole actually exists or not is impossible for me to say. I am rejecting that my suffering has an external reality, yes. If that makes me somehow falling into polarities, then so be it :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Pray for evaporation of evil plans...'
---Thanks, speaking of the Masters of Wisdom, Freemasons, etc; these are false teachers since Roman Catholocism is the one true Church (Cf. MSN cover page). I'm thinking of becoming a RC TB, along the lines of Mel Gibson. He may be into Opus Dei. By becoming a members of this cult, you get to flagellate yourself with a makeshift flagellum (not quite as austere as the original Roman invention); made out of some flimsey cord. You strip of your shirt and vigorously flagellate yourself on the back. Here's the Pope's latest pronouncement: Pope: Other denominations not true churches Benedict issues statement asserting that Jesus established `only one church' NBC News video Jews have concerns over Latin mass July 10: NBC's Stephanie Gosk reports on Pope Benedict XVI's revival of the traditional Latin mass and the firestorm it is generating. Today show Slide show Making of a pope From boyhood to war to seminary to the Vatican, images trace the career of the 265th pope. Slide show Inaugural Mass Benedict XVI is installed as pope in a Mass in St. Peter's Square in 2005. Click to view the photographs. NBC World Blog NBC News correspondents and producers around the globe share their insight on news events. Most Popular Most Viewed Top Rated Most E-mailed U.S. troops kill 6 Iraqi police in gunbattle Pope: Other denominations not true churches Miss N.J. reveals blackmail photos Twins separated at birth reunite after 15 years Midwest towns sour on war as deaths mount Most viewed on MSNBC.com Gillispie already working magic on Kentucky Butterflies fast forward evolution to evade death Hospital operators may give bad stroke advice Locked out? Don't fall for latest locksmith scam Poll: 92 percent want 'country of origin' labels Most viewed on MSNBC.com Pope: Other denominations not true churches Two Ellsworth personnel found dead in their home Former surgeon general says he was muzzled Bum wrap Former tennis star Clijsters weds U.S. basketball player Most viewed on MSNBC.com MSNBC News Services Updated: 6:52 a.m. PT July 10, 2007 LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches. Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church. On Saturday, Benedict revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by reviving the old Latin Mass. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad you (and your bottom) managed to once again morph into human form. From what I hear this has become more and more difficult for you guys. As far as concern paranoia etc - you guys just can't let go, can you. How can you ever hope to become free (let alone human) if you don't first loose this hierachial stuff of Teachers etc? As far as concern Thomas Jeffersson, seems his hidden basement just might have held the same stuff as Ben Franklins..? http://www.cp.org/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx? filename=g032008anewsitemid=66697032languageid=1 http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/ten_bodies.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz peterklutz@ wrote: Maybe I am paranoid, but I did pick up the stench of Freemasonry in your writings. What Teachers of Wisdom? Why do you insist that love needs Teachers with capital T to spread itself? Or the humans need Ts to learn anything? Why Light of Pure Consciousness? What's wrong with just plain Pure Consciousness? And why the, by the same token, quaint and inappropriate purposefully? Normally I would now wait for a reply, but given the new posting limit I'll cut to the chase: You and your like can take your Light bringing (a k a Luciferian), satanic Illuminati and Freemasonic purpose of qualifying (i.e. straight-jacking) and redirecting (i.e.kidnapping) Spirit and shove it up your scaly behind. Sorry, but my behind is soft, thank you... Actually this attitude you suggest is what we should be avoiding. This hateful warmongering type of speak, is what gets us bad karma, yes? Now, what I meant by Teachers, was a generic word, sorry it elicited such fear and paranoia on your part. All of us are Teachers, when we are centered. This is more of the teaching
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Distinction Between- Light of God Lucifer's Sparkle'
--That's only the Lucifer of Tradition. The real Lucifer (Satan) is actually helping Souls ascend out of the lower astral dimensions; and about a year ago was converted to Buddhism. But even the traditional account of Satan is non-sensical Jabberwocki. Feature this: Lucifer-Satan rebelled against God (the Judaeo-Christian Deity) and is trying to entice people to perform evil acts,...for what purpose? To prove that humans are innately evil, to show YHVH that His Divine Plan will never work? The facts speak for themselves. Orthodox Christianity has generated far more evil in the world that Satan could ever generate. Just look at the numbers of pedophiles in YHVH's Church. Actually, the situation is directly opposite to that portrayed in Genesis. If you scrutinize Genesis carefully, you will see that YHVH deliberately tries to conceal the Knowledge of the fruit of good and evil (i.e. cause and effect) from humans, lest they get enough brains to decide for themselves what's right vs wrong. Satan, OTOH, in the form of the Kundalini snake, says to humans that YHVH is not the real God; but symbology implies that the humans are to seek out knowledge for themselves through direct experience rather than allowing some supposed pie-in the sky Deity to write a list of do's an don'ts on a stone tablet. YHVH's message is essentially evil and has split the universe in a shattered trashheap of dualistic splinters. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The wise ones, Through the ages, Buddha, Jesus, and others, Have always spoken of the need to develope purity of consciousness, develope the soul, because the things of the material world are temporary. So, we speak of the 'Light of God' or 'Pure Consciousness', we are speaking of a different kind of light, then the shiny things of the material world. The betrayal ~ of God in Heaven it is told, Initiated by Archangel Lucifer. This act of defiance started the forces of fear and mockery of God's Holy work. So, the things of the world, that are advertised as bright and shiny and so, so important... all the real estate, gold and silver, filling their coffers with stolen money to buy bright and shiny and new weapons systems... Then send them in, to experience hell, and then drop them off on the other side of pain. These are the things of the brightness of Lucifer. Lucifer doesn't like to get his hands dirty- he usually uses others for dirty work. Like Hitler, he works behind the scenes to propagate his murderous ways, Like Charlie Manson - (Why did we do it, they asked? 'Cause Charlie said...)... You can think of some others I'm sure. Lust and greed, and unconsciousness are his good friends arrogance is one of his main character traits... Like god-father in the mafia. Strong arming and tempting everyone and everything for the sake of evil intent and desire. Good thing, he self destructs in the end... (Karma). Hitler is a prime example. r.g. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shankara on Yoga Sutras
--on Russian Orthodox monastery. There are rumors of levitating monks at Mt. Athos. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, billy jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read your link. I agree with you entirely. Trevor Leggett did the yogic world a great service by translating this commentary. I spoke with a Sankya-Yoga scholar a few years back about this text. He had some issues with Leggett's translation at times but agreed with the overall clarity of the presentation. This scholar is a long time meditator, tm teacher, former miu prof and longtime student of ssrs. I saw him recently in ssrs's hotel suite while he brought some of his students (part of his local university kriya group) in for darshan. He had an interesting critique of Ian Whicher's The Integrity of the Yoga Darshana. I even found out that Gregory Shaw was his roommate at UCal-Santa Barbara. (You may not be in to this stuff but Shaw is one of the top commentators on the Neoplatonic Theurgy of Iamblichus, 2nd-3rd A.D. This is the origin of the short-lived tantra of the western world, a profound tradition assassinated by the christians.) You might also know this, but there is now another translation of Shankara's vivarana on the YS translated by T.S. Rukmani. I purchased it throught Amazon, as a two volume hardback for $65. She is a well accomplished scholar and used her previous translation of Patanjali (done with Vacaspati's commentary) as the YS basis for the Vivarana. She then dropped in Shankara's vivarana text as the main part of the book. She believes that the vivarana is the work of one of the yogic Shankaracharya-s from one of the traditional math-s. She cites what she believes are stylistic reasons for this assignment. She is an academic and is paid handsomely to generate such informed opinions so we should take her opinion just for what it is. In either case, whether Adi-Shankara or a later Shankaracharya, the vivarana is a uniquely fertile contemplative source for the yogic student - ie. for people who want to move deeper into the knowledge base. One thing I like about Leggett's version is the staightforward clarity of the translation which just lends itself to easy comprehension of Shankara's analysis. I found that by studying Shankara's commentary on the sutras dealing with dharana (YS 3.1) and dhyana (YS 3.2) , I was able to validate the accuracy of MMY's teaching about the yogic process of sanyama. He is indeed teaching Patanjali's sanyama, and not Vajra-naughts some-a-yo-mama. Half-baked sadhaka-s with god-like pompous egos should rest their attention in the ground luminosity and then just shut-the-fuck-up. After a while their hearts might softten just enough so they can care more about what is truth and a whole lot less about themselves and how they appear to other people. As a side note here, my interest in this forum is simply to assay the state of mind of some of fairfield's own meditators. I don't know if this forum is representative or not, since I only know a few people now living in fairfield. For my part, I am a non-recertified tm-governor (Fiuggi, 1972), and student of ssrs - an extraordinary person who has stayed with me at my house and from whom I have received guru-mantra (rather than sahaj mantra). However, I am also a student of a Kagyupa Lama who is an adept of mahamudra and dzogchen. He is both a Kagyupa Khenpo and a Geshe (from Ganden monastery). He will be staying at my house at the end of this month for a 5-day retreat on practicing the three views of emptiness, tantra and dzogchen-kadag in daily life. Both of these gurus have given me profoundly deep teachings although in quite different ways. In this matter I have been most fortunate. Also, and perhaps in the interest of disclosure, I should add that I spent three years in a russian orthodox monastery, a tradition incredibly rich in yogic-like spiritual teachings. It was there that I learned some important yogic techniques - how to pray standing up, how to bow, how to sing and chant in four part harmony and how to drink iced zubravka vodka as a challege sport. - Not necessarily in that order I might add. By the way, too bad we couldn't look deeper into the issue of advaita and madhyamaka. John Arapura, McMaster University has replicated Heidegger's quest for the origins of metaphysical recognition by examining the foundations of Vedanta and Madhyamaka. It is a facinating inquiry into the difference between logos (Vac) as the self-revealing shruti of Brahman and dialectics as the analysis of the world from the midst of its own flux (santana). Anyway, so much ... for so much thinking. Thank you for your reply to my post. May the dogs wail, and may the moon hum. woof woof arf arf empty Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Billy-Jim wrote: Have you read Shankara's vivarana on
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on Brahman
---I don't think there's an Ishwara. If so, who is it/she/him? YAHWEH? Krishna? Lalita? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel babajii_99@ wrote: The Buddha plane would also be the Christ plane... It is like the Holy Spirit. Jesus is like the son, is like Purusha, standing between the two worlds. Congratulations..you've got it! Remember MMY saying God is both Manifest and Unmanifest? The manifest pursuha is the personal god consciousness MMY talks about!! The unmanifest Purusha is Brahman. What is missing in much of Christian Literature, as well as Jewish Literature, as well as Islamic literature...? The power of woman is left out. Not at all, Mother Nature, Maha Prakriti is the entire created cosmos. Pity... The Native Americans and other races had a deep connection to the earth. Without being grounded in the earth, not much can be accomplished here. So, this seems like an archetype that transcends any particular story; But rather the basic nature of things. So, it's ok to say that the earth is all just Maya... Not just Maya..but Ishvara's consort, his sport/lila as infinite creativity. However, it would be nice to have all that Maya, be nice, and loving and harmonious... Unlike Babylon or other such places. We should have never gone to Babylon... It was as true today, as it was long ago... As long as we co-operate with the laws of Nature (Veda) we are promised happiness, in this world and the next, unto eternity.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A request for Rory
---Jim asks what more is there to predict? The stock market, so you can become a trillionaire and setup a countrywide healthcare system. OTOH, your desires are already met, and you don't give a crap if people are suffering in the world (in the relative sense - have AIDS, MS, cancer, Lou Gehrig's disease, Huntington's disease,...etc..). In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt qntmpkt@ wrote: ---Yea, but you can't predict the future, otherwise you'd already be a billionaire and help countless poor people. I can predict that my desires are met. What more is there to predict?:- )
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's mechanics of conciousness
--Right on! That's why one should practice TM and add the Maha-Sat- Guru, Ramana Maharshi. Start with the chant of Ramana's Names: Bhaje Ramana Namam available through http://www.arunachala.org Ramana had a vision in which he saw the entire universe getting sucked into himself. This was in relationship to the world, not his own Sadhana, which in relation to Self-Realization, was completed many years prior to that. Ramana's influence grows as more people get sucked into his M-Field. This includes people in the lineage (actually, there's no lineage but Gangaji uses that word)...but there IS a powerful M-field! To continue, this M-field embraces most of the so-called Neo- Advaitins; for example Eckart Tolle who was inspired by Ramana. Also, with a similar vibe are HWL Poonja, Andrew Cohen, ...; any numerous other Neo-Advaitins. We can draw three overlapping circles of non-dualist Sadhanas: 1. Buddhism, 2. Saivite (and related schools) Hinduism, 3. Neo-Advaita Any of the overlapping areas are compatible in practice in spite of different origins and various philosophical colors. While it is true that a Fundie Christian can also practice TM (one recently posted a message), we must emphasisize that this(TM) is a practice, not a philosophy; since if you splice on a philosophical orientation to TM, (Saivite non-dualism, Shankara); one will find numerous major incompatibilites between the philosophy and orthodox Christianity. (but not Gnostic Christianity). We can use an analogy to black holes. Take a section interstellar space in which we find numerous black holes. Possibly, whole galaxies and countless black holes can merge together into one super black hole; but before that happens, we can identify the initial seed black hole which is the most powerful, absorbing in due course all of the others. The Ramana Maharshi M-field is that initial, superpowerful black hole. The other two major black holes are Buddhism and Saivite Hinduism, but this is related directly to Ramana since he was a devotee of Arunachala Shiva. Thus, Neo-Advaita (in spite of the adherents eschewing any affity to Shiva as a Personality - apart from Ramana); is fully compatible with Saivite Hinduism. Thus, these two black holes can merge, leaving 1. Neo-Advaita and 2. Buddhism Neither of these ultimate Maha-black holes will absorb the other; but rather both will live on for an infinity of time; if not in our universe, then on and on in countless universes yet to be created. Ultimately, creation will not spawn creatures apart from full Self- Realization; and the notion of duality itself will become extinct, with all creatures - even rocks and perhaps robots, fully Realized and living in a vast infinitely expansive kingdom. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: TM simply provides a more ideal opportunity for the transcending. As a technique it is second to none, in my opinion, and I've studied under numerous teachers. TM sure surpasses in effectiveness the concentration on the tip of the nose taught by most yoga teachers! You can't seem to cite a single teacher or technique that provides a simple, easily learned technique for effortless transcending. That's my point. Tanmay: Hard to communicate my following points but will attempt to. Yes the technique of TM is awesome, simple and it works, transcending was immediate in the very first meditation, stayed deep all through the years, was the deepest in the last 5 years where just awareness of awareness in meditation and some sort of significant deep bliss at times through out the whole day outside of meditation. This friend of mine, who I used to do program with in Vlodrop, had the same things to say more or less as I just did, and unfortunately, he jumped in front of a train one year ago. My experience is that a technique is something the Guru gives out as a part of the journey for unfolding enlightenment. The significant and major difference that is not in the path with TM and is where I am now is the one to one guidance of a Sat Guru. This is all the difference in the world. I have seen people with experiences yet in a fog because that guidance wasn't there. So what happens when the technique is effective and brings about experiences? hit or miss if the Guru is not right there to guide and one to one. Mostly it is a mss. When samadi comes about, Nirvakalpa samadi, Nirvakalpa sahaj samdi, this is a very important time when the Guru needs to be there one to one. This point is coming from my Guru. Look how Yogananda was confirmed by his Guru to be in enlightenment. My Guru disagrees with a policy of giving out a technique and then leaving people on their own to figure things out. It is required to keep in touch and this is a commitment one makes as a sadaka in this path. The commitment from the Guru's
[FairfieldLife] Re: Getting strokes from the TM teacher syndrome
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Actually my post focused on Jim's mischaractorizations concerning the blues and the men who invented the form, and his factual errors concerning their lives. Brahman doesn't make mistakes. Ha! but Brahman is complete and includes opposites. Therefore in order to be complete, Brahman must include making mistakes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A request for Rory
---Yea, but you can't predict the future, otherwise you'd already be a billionaire and help countless poor people. FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: What level is it now Rory? 20? You might want to think about starting your own religion soon, doncha think? What for? Does the world need yet another religion? I've always found them to be rather constricting, personally, when we start taking poetry for Gospel :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Someone once said to me that it is so easy being a critic, because you just go after what others have created and criticize it, never having created anything of substance yourself. Just something to think about while you caress your record collection.:-) That's very aptly put, Jim; I *do* see the Rorian Tradition as being a rather complex work of art I created, a self-portrait in essence. As such, I didn't expect or desire it to appeal to everyone, though it's always nice to be appreciated by a thoughtful critic :-) Yep, your web site is a very creative work. Lots of trippy stuff to read in there. Might I call it transcendental? I have always enjoyed art the same way- as a way to express what that part of me is in that moment; freezing a particularly interesting slice of time. Yet not trying to answer every question, or resolve every issue in life, just capturing that specific slice of time, and reflecting it back as timeless truth.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Most Yoga schools 'end' with Cosmic Consciousness..
--- MMY is not a Guru, so default to Guru Dev? No. Guru Dev, as well as MMY, have made the Shakti investment in the mantra, not their own forms. You need a direct transmission Guru in which the investment of Shakti is co-extensive with the form of the Guru; namely, Ramana Maharshi. This applies to anything associated with him such as audio tapes of Pundits chanting at Ramanasramam. The power surrounding Ramana Maharshi is greater now than when he was alive since, more people are getting sucked into it. Get the Sage of Arunachala DVD and the Evening Paryana audio from http://www.arunachala.org In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron sidha7001@ wrote: A friend claims he has a video or tape where MMY is talking about Kundalini, so I can't confirm this until I hear it, he said he will dig it out. I would love to hear that!!! snip On a mass scale like TM, if the techniques given opened up Kundalini as it seems reiki can- we can imagine the possible catastrophie if people are left with this and no one there to guide. I think at this point a 'guru' is necessary...MMY is not a guru. So do we default to Guru Dev? snip By now, I have seen people coming in with comments who had the kundalini spontaneosly awake, and also this one fellow I knew in TM, say that they wish they can shut it off as they can't sleep, etc. It can be worse than this so hopefully there is not a lot of this in TM where it is getting turned on. I doubt it, opening kundalini is a very advanced state of Yoga. snip Those doing TM for such a long time, it is possible to say they are ripe for this now, could be that more and more come into spontaneous Kundalini awakenings these days. Doubtful...I've been meditating for over 38 years and it still hasn't happened, the ONLY way (kundalini) to Samadhi I might add!! snip Again, Kundalini awakening can be the greatest blessing but also can be a great curse without proper guidance. Indeed, important point!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Practice Groups of FF, A Directory
---MMY is the real thing - person. Maitreya is an imposter, posing as Maitreya; thus, an invading spirit who has taken over the unwitting dupe, Benjamin Creme. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: Another reason not to enter that strange country. The americans always comes through as extraordinary rigid anyway, and the americans in the Movement are no exceptions. Ahh, good! So now perhaps you can see why so many TM-ers have left the TMO -- like you, they were drawn to appreciate avenues of spiritual inquiry other than MMY himself, and thus were no longer allowed to attend the Domes. Could be a national disease, and one that gradually is driving USA into international isolation. The rest of the world is just getting more and more fed up with the rigid, stupid and rough american foreign policy I suppose. The world is moving on, but the americans do not seem to have grasped this simple fact. Perhaps some few have not yet; I would say that apparently many if not most actually have. Just for the record; Benjamin Creme's views are not other than MMY's For more information, please see: http://www.shareintl.org You have no argument with me; I am just pointing out that according to the current stance of the TMO, Benjamin Creme is not MMY, and is not a follower of MMY, ergo he is other than MMY. LLL, R.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Please help me find a good astrologer
--Try Astro Computing Services, the oldest such service in the US. But there's a certain misunderstanding about Western astrology, i.e. transits. Transits in themselves are totally non-interpretive angular relationships between the planets; e.g. Mars can be opposed to Pluto (it remains to be seen if Pluto's demotion will affect astrology). In general, oppositions between Malefic planets tend to be associated with undesirable misfortunes. A minimum of interpretation is required. The basic interpretations are already set out in Hand's Planets in Transit. A computerized reading just selects the predominant influential transits and extracts a composite reading from Hand's text. It's all very straightforward and generally reliable. OTOH, Vedic astrologers tend to use more subjective means, less universal and more secret types of interpretations carried down through families or in disciplic succession. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pratap Mahapatra pratmah2001@ wrote: We shall be very happy to assist with Vedic astrology. We do compatibility analysis to check how compatible 2 or more people are for marriage, business or any kind of partnership. H. Given the general prudery of India and things Vedic, I'm wondering what the reading would be like for someone who ordered a compatibility chart for 2 or more people as *marriage* partners. I'm toying with the idea of ordering a compatibility chart from these folks for me (as husband) and Isabelle Adjani, Eva Green, Salma Hayek, and Maribel Verdú (as wives). I'm convinced that we'd all get along smashingly, but I'd like confirmation from God on this. I'd surely have a heart attack after a few months (weeks?) of such a marriage, but what a way to go, eh? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: This post not approved by TM friends Yahoo group
--Saying somebody is unenlightened by judging outer behavior is an erronous viewpoint. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps MMY is speaking about a condition of mind and not pure consciousness. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/26/2007 12:05:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is clear that MMY is admitting he is not enlightened since his inner experience is so dependent on structures outside of himself. Don't get me wrong The man is incredible. He has changed my life and thousands of people around the world. But, this is another sales pitch for Vastu living. If this is what he said then CC is not even developed since he would be in total bliss consciousness 24 hours a day regardless of the house he is living in. Lsoma. Hello to all, Enlightenment means Liberation, no confinement what so ever, and certainly nothing on the outside touches this. Actually, the Enlightened will tell you that there is no outside for all is One, no duality. If I may ask, who transcribed this? Is this for sure what Maharishi said? If so, what is your take on this ? I just gave mine. Maybe those reading this can see the Universe offering a wake up call? Ron Maryanne Lee-Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Maharishi on Vastu Global Confrence on Architecture, 17.5.07 MAHARISHI: ...I am reminded of a proverb `the taste of pudding is in eating`, period. We can not describe what is indescribable. And what is indescribebable is the benefit of Vastu structured buildings - Sthapatya Ved buildings. I am living in the Sthapatya Ved building and what I feel is that the walls of the house, they don`t produce a cage for me. I don`t feel I am living inside the walls. The walls are as transparent as is the meaning of cosmic living. You don`t feel you are cramped by the walls. I have been throughout all my life, 40-50 years, living wherever I went, living whosoever kept me as his guest. And always I was feeling I am caged within these walls. And ever since they gave me this house to live in, I am not feeling restricted. This is cosmic living... ...and follow my advise that throughout my life I have been caged in, and ever since these 12-15 years I am here in this house (in Vlodrop) my thinking is absolutely unrestricted.th ...I am alone, I know myself - the walls, I am living within the walls but the walls are transparent for me. That is the experience. I am very afraid to go to any house. I never feel to go because I will be caged in - such freedom, such abundance, such enormous authority over space and time. Such reality of living in cosmic magnitude. This is living in Vastu buildings... ...it is such a thing, it is beyond speech... ...the law says the house should face the sun. Everyone knows sun is the giver of health. The houses facing the sun, facing the east, are healthy. That`s all, simple. Morning sun, evening sun, enter the door - it is healthy. Morning rays of the sun are healthy, they are healthy. Just the orientation.th ...I have the experience of all these 80-90 years of life living in wrong places. But somehow through the grace of Guru Dev, I never jolted from my purpose of life. The purpose of life was to be fully enlightened. So that was inside, that was very strong. And I was not living very long in some place - 2 days in some place, 15 days in some place, one month somewhere, like that. But ever since I came to this house, the house never left me because it is the same thing if one begins to live one`s cosmic status one can`t leave one`s Self, one can`t stoop down to one`s individual status... Maryanne Lee-Hartman ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. __ __ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: why not relinquish TM?
--Right - getting zapped is pretty useless, unless you can take it with you anytime, anyplace like TM. I got zapped by Muktananda on many occasions. Didn't help much. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: I've been in rooms where the teacher just zapped everyone into samadhi and then got up and left, and it was over an hour before anyone in the room could open their eyes and figure out that he *had* left. :-) So, you got zapped by Fred the Zen Master. Was that before or after reading Fred's book Surfing the Himalayas? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: SEXY ROMPS OF THE BEATLES' GIGGLING GURU
---the two modes exist simultaneously together, yet you insist on conflating them in the same context without clarifying which mode you are referring to. The Neo-Advaitin aspect (i.e. the no need to rectify things, is obvious; even to Indian philosophy intellectuals, or should be). The other mode (relative-in-itself); is also obvious since even though you say there's no need to rectify the answer, you did rectify it!. Also, you previously referred to MMY as saying I don't make mistakes; which should be obvious re: the Neo-Advaitin mode. It's also obvious that he makes an abundance of relative mistakes. Therefore, the two modes coexist perfectly. The problem arises when one party is referring to the relative mode, and the inquiree plays the Neo-Advaitin shuffle by arbitrarily switching back from one mode to another...resulting in ridiculously false Neo-Advaitin statements such as one might find coming from the mouth of Ramesh Balsekar such as (there's no mistakes, no karma, no suffering, )all Neo-Advaitin gobbledenonsense. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 20, 2007, at 2:06 AM, tertonzeno wrote: --- So, Rory; you see no need to rectify anything? Sounds like a typical Neo-Advaitin-ism. I suppose that if some home invaders took over your neighbor's house and threatened to kill everybody, you wouldn't take measures to rectify the situation? (i.e. make it go away, change it in some way?). At the very least, call the cops. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: It's all one, so why bother? Because it's all one, we bother. There is no need to rectify anything, *including* my current impulse to clarify your apparent misapprehensions of my position(s). I write this despite my suspicion that you really do *get* this, and you're just pulling my leg, because I do remember when I didn't get it, for many years, so I know that hypothetically not-getting this is indeed possible and probably prevalent. So even if you *do* get this and are just playing dumb, there are others who don't, so this may be actually heard somewhere, somewhen, by some Being actually seeking to come back to Me. I also suspect that (as someone on FFL said recently -- was it Curtis? Or Judy?) not-getting this is a Piaget-like stage of Being, like a kid who doesn't get it that a tall narrow glass and a short fat one contain the same amount of water. He won't get it even if we pour the water back and forth between the glasses all day long; he thinks it's some kind of a trick. He thinks either the tall glass is bigger, or the fat glass is bigger -- he can't see that tall+thin = short+fat. Nonetheless, I'll pour the water a few more times, just for the fun of it. There is no need to rectify anything, *including* my hypothetical impulse to call the cops in your hypothetical home-invasion scenario. My appreciation of the perfection of what IS *includes* all our particular dynamic attempts to change what IS. It is both utterly still *and* utterly dynamic, simultaneously. It is both silent *and* noisy, simultaneously. It is both mistake-laden *and* error-free, simultaneously. It contains all the slippery opposites in spacetime, because it is US, and we're more than spacetime, more than any particular story. It is -- we are -- whatever we put our attention on and thereby evoke from the vasty deep. Chopra has a good analogy -- if we look at the movement of the crowd in a train station, we see people rushing everywhere in apparent chaos, and yet there is an underlying order; everyone's needs are being met. To me, that's a great description of Life -- everyone's needs are being met. If we don't think our needs are being met, we look closer, feel the emotion(s), be open to our deepest need in this moment, open our heart to receive the divine perfection being offered to us in this moment, be open to receiving both subtler and infinitely more fullness more than we expected, almost certainly in a different flavor than we expected. If we're completely honest with ourself, completely open, we will find what we've been craving, and infinitely more. But again, maybe only when we're ready to see the two glasses of water are equivalent! :-) *L*L*L*
[FairfieldLife] Re: SEXY ROMPS OF THE BEATLES' GIGGLING GURU
--good points, but within the holographic you, there are countless people making (apparent) genuine mistakes; so even if MMY is not among those, just cross him off the list and count the countless billions of genuine mistake particles within the holographic you that need to be rectified. Same with suffering. Forget mistakes for a minute. It's obvious MMY has medical problems which can be conceived as being errors against physical immortality. Thus, genuine suffering particles exist within the holographic you. Or, perhaps you may be refusing to accept the existence of the genuine MMY mistake particles; or are attempting to rationalize them away. That could be a mistake. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip I'm stickin' to my guns on this one, but I am curious as to whether anyone else here (many of you, after all, have far more experience being close to Maharishi than I have) has heard quotes that indicate that Maharishi *does* self-reflect, in a manner that can be interpreted as viewing his own actions critically, admitting mistakes, and attempting to learn from them and not make similar mistakes in the future. I've racked my tiny brain, and I can't remember even a single instance of this. Perhaps someone here can help out and prove me wrong. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: I am not trying to prove you wrong, but if you reflect for a minute or less on Brahmananda Saraswati, Guru Dev, and recall what Maharishi said when asked what Guru Dev did, and he replied, He made me, that says all anyone should need to know about Maharishi's capacity for and capability of self-reflection. As I've mentioned, without living that silent subtle level of life where Maharishi's darshan is always apparent it is easy to get snared in the multifold traps he has laid for those who treasure and hoard the surface values of life.:-) This reminds me of that Science Veda course in New Delhi in '80- '81 when MMY said, I never make mistakes. This really poked me in my small-mindedness and I must have radiated some pretty strong incredulity, as MMY then looked over in my direction and added more softly, at least I don't think so. At the time I felt great outrage at such rampant self-deception; now looking back I see how incredibly *funny* he was Being. God, it must have been lonely to be the only one in on the constant joke! (Or maybe he wasn't; I don't know. I only know I wasn't consciously in on it.) It's become so abundantly clear since then that the only *I* he has ever been speaking from or of is my own Self; I just was never quite Self-aware enough to see it then. And again, all gratitude to MMY and the TMO for providing the latest course to really hammer it home to those of us who have like me been a little slow to really get it! :- ) *L*L*L*
[FairfieldLife] Re: Poverty is imaginary -- the individual is cosmic
-- Right, the universe is holographic; conforming to the most uptodate hypotheses in physics. But of course, the spiritual orientation includes Shankara's superposition principle (not within the domain of experimental physics). This implies that some individuals experience (grok) that everything is sweet; but others claim that everything is rotten. Each is a true hologram within the other; but it would be incorrect for one to expouse a false Neo-Advaitic ideal: i.e. that I'm OK, therefore everybody else must be OK, even though they claim life is rotten. Thus, among those that say life is sweet; the proposition that others who say life is rotten are a. liars or b. delusional; would be incorrect. IMO: those who say life is ABSOLUTELY 100% sweet - in spite of the claims of rottenness by the diehards; are expousing a false Neo- Advaitic claim. If the universe is truly holographic, then the particles of rottenness are REALLY within the sweet people; but they are denying it. Thus, life cannot be 100%, totally sweet or 100% totally rotten. It's somewhere in-between. n FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: Do you mean that he sucked some into totally identifying with the TMO (and many part way), and then made the TMO so weird that sanity can only be maintained by transcending or total detachment from the outer false identities with the TMO? Or do you mean that we transcend the worldly boundaries of the TMO, and see it as part of Rory, I mean Ourselves, and thus we take ownership in the a fact that we are that snake of weirdness -- that is actually we are the rope of bliss? Or do you mean that MMY is a self-referral part of Ourselves, the act of making weirdness is a part of Ourselves, the weirdness itself is part of Ourdelves, and our renunciation of the wieirdness is part of Ourselves? or do you mean: DOH! Yep!:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversal of subtle pranas key to transcending...
--Right! Vaj's Guru, Norbu Rinpoche is not a great teaching Guru. He only has a few hundred disciples and his best technique is the Dance of the Vajra a type of dance done on top of a mandala to the accompanyment of various Tibetan instruments. Basically, Vaj reminds me of those Christian Fundies who go around saying you're going to Hell. The people who say that are already in Hell, but they don't know it!. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: One thing to keep in mind, particularly in a technique administered to thousands or millions of people without personalized instruction: Let's just say that what you are saying is true. What is your alternative? You have been at this same message for years, and yet never propose a workable alternative. Maharishi's goal has always been to create world peace by quickly raising the world consciousness. How else can this be done except to provide an easy to practice technique, en masse? Are you suggesting the the millions who practice TM and TMSP instead go through what you did? That would not scale. So in the meantime I will be waiting for your alternative. Otherwise I assume you are like the guy in the meeting that shoots everything down, without coming up with a responsible suggestion of his own. Here is my theory on spiritual practice: Because we do it by ourselves, like many other actions, like sleeping, waking, breathing, etc. it should be as simple and easy to learn and do as possible. In my experience and reflection, that is how our world is designed. Just as there are those who make a big show out of the commonplace in life, there are those like you who get so caught up in the esoterica of spiritual practice that they can no longer see the forest for the trees. They lose sight of the goal by being seduced by their own path. That is the exception, not the rule as you express. Most of us just want something like TM and TMSP to rapidly achieve the goal and get on with our lives, not getting stuck in an endless masturbatory loop of this technique does this which I believe is this and that I can appreciate you have spent a lot of time and effort learning all this esoteric knowledge, but outside a very small group of hobbyists, does anyone else in the world even care? The answer is no. So provide an alternate means to quickly spear the darkness of the world with light as Maharishi has done, or please keep your itty bitty knowledge to yourself-- it is all but worthless to the rest of us.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Interview with Kim Eng, associate of Eckhart Tolle ,
Relationships - True Love and the Transcendence of Duality by Kim Eng September 2004 source Eckhart Teachings During my travels, one of the most frequently asked question is What is it like to be in relationship with an enlightened being? Why this question? Perhaps they have the idea or image of an ideal relationship, and want to know more about it. Perhaps their mind wants to project itself to a future time when they, too, will be in an ideal relationship and find themselves through it. What is it like to be in relationship with an enlightened being? As long as I have the idea in my head I have a relationship or I am in a relationship, no matter with whom, I suffer. This I have learnt. With the concept of relationship come expectations, memories of past relationships, and further personally and culturally conditioned mental concepts of what a relationship should be like. Then I would try to make reality conform to these concepts. And it never does. And again I suffer. The fact of the matter is: there are no relationships. There is only the present moment, and in the moment there is only relating. How we relate, or rather how well we love, depends on how empty we are of ideas, concepts, expectations. Recently, I asked Eckhart to say a few words on the ego's search for love relationships. Our conversation quickly went deeper to touch upon some of the most profound aspects of human existence. Here's what he said: ET: What is conventionally called love is an ego strategy to avoid surrender. You are looking to someone to give you that which can only come to you in the state of surrender. The ego uses that person as a substitute to avoid having to surrender. The Spanish language is the most honest in this respect. It uses the same verb, te quiero, for I love you and I want you. To the ego, loving and wanting are the same, whereas true love has no wanting in it, no desire to possess or for your partner to change. The ego singles someone out and makes them special. It uses that person to cover up the constant underlying feeling of discontent, of not enough, of anger and hate, which are closely related. These are facets of an underlying deep seated feeling in human beings that is inseparable from the egoic state. When the ego singles something out and says I love this or that, it's an unconscious attempt to cover up or remove the deep-seated feelings that always accompany the ego: the discontent, the unhappiness, the sense of insufficiency that is so familiar. For a little while, the illusion actually works. Then inevitably, at some point, the person you singled out, or made special in your eyes, fails to function as a cover up for your pain, hate, discontent or unhappiness which all have their origin in that sense of insufficiency and incompleteness. Then, out comes the feeling that was covered up, and it gets projected onto the person that had been singled out and made special - who you thought would ultimately save you. Suddenly love turns to hate. The ego doesn't realize that the hatred is a projection of the universal pain that you feel inside. The ego believes that this person is causing the pain. It doesn't realize that the pain is the universal feeling of not being connected with the deeper level of your being - not being at one with yourself. The object of love is interchangeable, as interchangeable as the object of egoic wanting. Some people go through many relationships. They fall in love and out of love many times. They love a person for a while until it doesn't work anymore, because no person can permanently cover up that pain. Only surrender can give you what you were looking for in the object of your love. The ego says surrender is not necessary because I love this person. It's an unconscious process of course. The moment you accept completely what is, something inside you emerges that had been covered up by egoic wanting. It is an innate, indwelling peace, stillness, aliveness. It is the unconditioned, who you are in your essence. It is what you had been looking for in the love object. It is yourself. When that happens, a completely different kind of love is present which is not subject to love / hate. It doesn't single out one thing or person as special. It's absurd to even use the same word for it. Now it can happen that even in a normal love / hate relationship, occasionally, you enter the state of surrender. Temporarily, briefly, it happens: you experience a deeper universal love and a complete acceptance that can sometimes shine through, even in an otherwise egoic relationship. If surrender is not sustained, however, it gets covered up again with the old egoic patterns. So, I'm not saying that the deeper, true love cannot be present occasionally, even in a normal love / hate relationship. But it is rare and usually short-lived. Whenever you accept what is, something deeper emerges then what is. So, you can be
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientific validation of Yagyas, a beginning
---Turq, your intuitions are faulty. You don't see the big picture. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt qntmpkt@ wrote: Has a Jyotish and Yagya program. CD's and DVD's available too. http://www.expertvedicastrology.com As a US headquarters base in Hawaii, you can send US $ to their HQ and not bother with converting $ to rupees. As to where your US $ go and your expected Return On Investment, I offer a crude start at validating the effect of Yagyas (as per the announced effect of the Yagya) vs. some kind of objective measure of its actual effect. The first link documents the announced intention of one Yagya offered by this fellow, and its cost ($11,000). http://www.expertvedicastrology.com/index.php? pr=Yagya_for_World_Peace The second link documents the ongoing conflicts in the world during 2006: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904550.html It would seem that the benefactors who donated to this Yagya, other than the feel good benefit of contributing to a supposedly noble cause, got at least 20 continuing significant armed conflicts for their money. That's less than $500 US per war, which some would consider a bargain. One of the conflicts (the one in Sri Lanka, fairly close to the broadcast tower for the Yagya's Woo Woo Rays) actually had a four-year cease fire fall apart and revert to armed conflict again shortly after the Yagya was performed. T'would seem that either the gods aren't listening, or perhaps the 121 pundits got the pronunciation of one of the verses slightly wrong. Either that, or the Yagya was a total success, and accomplished its intended effect (bringing in $11,000) perfectly. Even if the Yagya brings less than what you have defined as total success, is that justification for not doing it at all? I don't get that logic. Did I suggest that? I think that people should do whatever they think that they should do. If someone gets off by paying $11,000 for a yagya, more power to them. If someone else gets off by taking that $11,000 and burning it in their fireplace, more power to them. All that I'm suggesting is that the *effect* of these two actions -- both of which bring a sense of satisfaction and pleasure to the person who is supplying the money for them -- may be exactly the same. :-) It is not a black and white world, imo. Your comment is like finding out from the physician that to attempt to cure your total inability to walk will result in walking with a pronounced limp, so you then declare to the doctor, well then, forget it, I'll continue in my wheelchair. Rather false analogy. What I am suggesting is that there is a possibility that the doctor who promises to cure you never attended med school, and has no knowledge that *could* improve you. If you improve as a result of his care, it's the result of your belief that you would improve -- in other words, the placebo effect. You are trying to make the case *for* yagyas because intuitively you believe they have some effect. I am merely saying that intuitively I suspect they have no effect at all, *except* on the level of the placebo effect. BUT, if it makes you happy to send your money off to Hawaii, and then you look at the world and see some positive results from your invest- ment in the yagyas, cool. The only point I'm making is that I'd be willing to bet that (as we have certainly seen with the selective vision with which the TMO tends to view world events to justify their fund-raising flying courses), the more you invest in the yagya, the more you might be tempted to *imagine* positive results. As you seem to be doing here, you could look at a year in which the number of wars possibly increased and say, Well, they might have increased *more* if I hadn't paid for the yagya. That's cool, too, but I think it's a tough sell to those who suspect that the real motivation for performing yagyas is to pay for the lives of those who perform yagyas. :-) ??? I would add that like any endeavor, large or small, intution and common sense are the best guides on whether or not to proceed. :-) That's what I'm suggesting, too. If someone claims to be able to bring about world peace by hiring 121 people to chant for 11 days, I'd expect to see some measure of world peace as a result. If I don't, I'd begin to think that I was ripped off. You seem to be wearing rose-colored glasses that enable you to see a year's worth of wars as world peace, so you can justify the investment in such a yagya. That seems to be your definition of intuition and common sense. Me, I have
[FairfieldLife] Re: The discipline of letting go (of TM)
---So, you're saying that this Rinpoche Dildo of yours recommends just being open and no practices at all? Interesting viewpoint!. I'll stick with TM, thanks. As to the other Gurus, I've tasted their offerings and crossed them off my list, including Muktananda. Norbu Rinpoche only has the Dance of the Vajra. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 29, 2007, at 1:35 PM, Stu wrote: Bhairitu said In fact in other systems it's no great crime if you miss some meditations. Yes. I wonder if I would not be better served by going to a different practice. If for no other reason than after 30 years of this maybe its time to explore some other areas of the brain. I have really enjoyed reading Sally Kempton's Heart of Meditation where she suggests playing with meditation, trying different approaches. Not taking the darn thing so seriously. Her Guru, Swami Muktananda wrote a book on the importance of this playfulness. I agree. It's important to have familiarity with different styles of meditation experientially--and if you can keep that at the level of play you're already well on the way to success. Ideally there should be no special division between practicing and not practicing meditation. As the meditation master Dilgo Khyentse said: The everyday practice of the Great Perfection is simply to develop a complete carefree acceptance, an openness to all situations without limit. We should realize openness as the playground of our emotions and relate to people without artificiality, manipulation or strategy. We should experience everything totally, never withdrawing into ourselves as a marmot hides in its hole. This practice releases tremendous energy which is usually constricted by the process of maintaining fixed reference points. Referentiality is the process by which we retreat from the direct experience of everyday life. Being present in the moment may initially trigger fear. But by welcoming the sensation of fear with complete openness, we cut through the barriers created by habitual emotional patterns. When we engage in the practice of discovering space, we should develop the feeling of opening ourselves out completely to the entire universe. We should open ourselves with absolute simplicity and nakedness of mind. This is the powerful and ordinary practice of dropping the mask of self-protection. We shouldn't make a division in our meditation between perception and field of perception. We shouldn't become like a cat watching a mouse. We should realize that the purpose of meditation is not to go deeply into ourselves or withdraw from the world. Practice should be free and non-conceptual, unconstrained by introspection and concentration. Vast unoriginated self-luminous wisdom space is the ground of being - the beginning and the end of confusion. The presence of awareness in the primordeal state has no bias toward enlightenment or non- enlightenment. This ground of being which is known as pure or original mind is the source from which all phenomena arise. It is known as the great mother, as the womb of potentiality in which all things arise and dissolve in natural self-perfectedness and absolute spontaneity. I wonder if this incessant need to eat, sleep and brush my teeth is healthy? Eating sleeping and brushing are not a great metaphor for meditation. Eating and sleeping are physiological necessities. We stop - we die. There is no choice involved here. Can we equate TM to toothbrushing? Both have benefits to their habitual practice. On the other hand those who don't brush their teeth face terrible dental problems eventually. What lies in store for the millions of people with out a meditation practice? Is it as bad as gingivitis? Does anybody else here feel this strong need to meditate after so many years of habitual practice? Its as if the neural networks have been redesigned to NEED meditation 2 x a day. Is this healthy? When one reaches a calm state in meditation, this state, a state without thought content, can become very addicting. I would venture that most long-term TMers are in fact, addicted to this state and the neurotransmitters it triggers. Addiction, even to meditative states, is not healthy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The discipline of letting go (of TM)
Thanks, I agree totally. Andrew Cohen - in spite of his lip service to evolutionary Enlightenment, hasn't changed much over the years. He still supports his Utopian communes. They don't work. Such groups (as in the Israeli experiments); soon degenerate into a situation of total control over one's thoughts and actions, stiffling the incentive to embrace new ideas. Thus, your supposed prescription for expanding eclecticism is totally counterproductive. There are very serious downsides to living as a monk in commune-like settings, as in traditional Buddhism. I opt for libertarian Sadhanas that I can practice on my own without having some idiot leader tell me how to think. That's why I like TM. I've had many Gurus (or they have had me); but at least I have the freedom to change course on a dime if I choose to do so. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/29/2007 1:37:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andrew Cohen, Ekhart Tolle and many others have had spontaneous experiences of enlightenment. They have forgotten what got them to that experience in the first place. After all if your in a state of CC or GC and you forget about the dualistic path that got you there in the first place why would you recommend it. I think MMY is correct. The nervous system needs to be cultured to reflect a specific state of cons. The regular practice helps culture the nervous system. Andrew and others should be focusing on the collective meditation and promoting it within their groups. All of these teachers seem to be more concerned about their own attention to what they want to teach. We need more teachers to reach out to others and start a network of practitioners regardless of the form of meditation. I don't think people are bored of the regular practice of meditation. I think everyone wants a more expanded version of the group experience. MMY tried to do it but he is so exclusive to not only others joining his TM or TM Sidhi's group and has even made it difficult for those who are TM-Sidhi practitioners to join. For this very reason he will not accomplish his goal of creating world peace. O-the bitter taste of judgement.Stick it out with your meditation. Don't stop doing it everyday. When the violence calms down in the world then we can relax our practice. Most people who do other forms of meditation never do it everyday or with some consistency. They brush their teeth everyday, take a shower, feed the body, go to work, exercise but god forbid we meditate everyday. Now we know why the world is so screwed up. Lsoma. Bhairitu said In fact in other systems it's no great crime if you miss some meditations. Yes. I wonder if I would not be better served by going to a different practice. If for no other reason than after 30 years of this maybe its time to explore some other areas of the brain. I have really enjoyed reading Sally Kempton's Heart of Meditation where she suggests playing with meditation, trying different approaches. Not taking the darn thing so seriously. Her Guru, Swami Muktananda wrote a book on the importance of this playfulness. I wonder if this incessant need to eat, sleep and brush my teeth is healthy? Eating sleeping and brushing are not a great metaphor for meditation. Eating and sleeping are physiological necessities. We stop - we die. There is no choice involved here. Can we equate TM to toothbrushing? Both have benefits to their habitual practice. On the other hand those who don't brush their teeth face terrible dental problems eventually. What lies in store for the millions of people with out a meditation practice? Is it as bad as gingivitis? Does anybody else here feel this strong need to meditate after so many years of habitual practice? Its as if the neural networks have been redesigned to NEED meditation 2 x a day. Is this healthy? [EMAIL PROTECTED] For me, meditation does clear me out and center me. But its not about me after 30 years, its about the collective. I have been reading a lot of Andrew Cohen lately who has been experimenting with expanding group consciousness through intersubjectivity. It is a very interesting approach. Meditation is primarily narcissistic. The argument that somehow one has to first meditate before they can come into the world to help others is questionable. There are plenty of altruistic people out there making a positive mark without CC or GC. Atheists are capable of doing good. I am not sure of the relevence of your response to my question about the addictive nature of a 30 year practice. curtisdeltablues said, But I can also speak for the rest of the world in wondering what's up with the buttsplicer email Stu? I work as a film
[FairfieldLife] Ramanand Shastri, Vedic Astrologer.
Has a Jyotish and Yagya program. CD's and DVD's available too. http://www.expertvedicastrology.com As a US headquarters base in Hawaii, you can send US $ to their HQ and not bother with converting $ to rupees.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A different explanation of stress release
--Question below: did I stray from TM while (during the period) Muktananda dug his fingers into my eyeballs, giving me Shaktipat? Ans: Nope...not straying, just continuing my overall research into various Gurus. I've always practiced TM since 1967 but wanted to confirm if there was anything else of value (in addition to TM, not replacing it), through my own experience. Is there? Yes: Buddhism but I'm still in the investigative stage and not quite ready to make any pronouncements. Also, chanting the Gayatri mantra is of value. I got initiated into Eckankar in 1970, also Guru Maharaji gave me the Knowledge in 1970. In 1976 I was initiated by Thakur Singh, Darshan Singh, and Charan Singh, and Madhusadandasji.; and I met Muktananda in that year; (seeing him every day for several months in 1980). In 1982, the Kriya Yoga Guru Swami Satyeswarananda Giri initiated me. All of the foregoing was simply part of my ongoing research. Also, I've received intensive training in Fundamentalist Christianity, Hare Krishna philosophy;, Mormonism, and was baptized as a Mormon in 1981. I took refuge from 3 Buddhist teachers: Hsuan Hua (1976), somewhat later Sogyal Rinpoche, and Kalu Rinpoche. I worked at SIMS as a paid employee from 1970 - 1973 but got fired as a result of talking about various other Paths to people there...in L.A. But basically for the last 25 years, I've been closely observing people at work,who are not on the Spiritual path; since during that time among the many hundreds of people I've worked with, only 3 were New Agers. One was into Sant Mat, one was into astrology, and another practiced Hatha Yoga. The rest are basically into Happy Hour and shopping at the Home Depot on weekends. However, I might add that there is a certain consistent percentage of co-workers - mainly Black females; who regularly go to their respective Evangelical Churches , sometimes 3X per week. Impressive!...if one is into Fundamentalism. My ambition (among other things), is to find out what makes ordinary people -i.e. not on the Spiritual path - tick in terms of their reluctance to practice any type of Spiritual Sadhana. For the most part, I blame myself for not coming up with something demonstrable to offer them. Any talk of pure Consciousness only meets with a blank stare. Perhaps a dazzing display of Sidhis would turn such people on. What do you think? Nityananda in his early career was known to manifest various items out of thin air, walk on water, and even stop a train in its tracks. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt qntmpkt@ wrote: ---Yea...Swami Muktananda - it appears from available evidence that he was quite adept at molesting underage Daughters of his disciples. Yes, so I've heard. Still a nice insight, and I appreciate Shemp's posting it. Looks like a mismatch between speech and action! Yes, that might really bother me if I were expecting any particular action/speech from him :-) He initiated me into Shaktipat in 1980. (dug his fingers into my eyeballs and a brilliant image of himself appeared in my visual field). Interesting! Were you a steady TM-er at the time? If so, how did you justify straying? Among many other Master-flavors, I used to channel his shaktipat-energies in 1982 or so. BAM! Very dynamic, but I quit tuning into his channel when I found my heart was feeling pained and strained afterward from the excess voltage running through it :-) I have always found the following photograph of Muktananda's master, Nityananda, most remarkable. Of all the saints' photographs I have seen over the years, this one has the most profound effect upon me: http://www.nityanandainstitute.org/images/jpg/nit_teaching.jpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: A different explanation of stress release
---Vaj, I know you're heavily into tradition but there's something called new knowledge; but ultimately, the idea is to seek the truth, whether from tradition, authorities, Scriptures, one's own experience, heresay evidence;...better yet, everything together with one's own experience at the top of the list. This separates the true Gnostics from the TB. I see no reason to separate karma from stress and say it's only karma. Why not get rid of the bad karma AND the stress, on all levels. It's not an either/or proposition, unless one's Guru is only adept at helping you one one level and not another. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 25, 2007, at 9:23 AM, shempmcgurk wrote: This just verifies what I've stated here numerous times, that the TM myth of physical stress release from the physical nervous system was fallacious. Where stress is being released is in the pranic body or vajra body. It is the pranic body that evolves. I don't understand the inconsistency between MMY's position, your's, and Muktananda's. Whether it's the pranic body or vajra body (although I'm not sure what vajra body is), isn't that still on the relative level? Whether it's actual physical body or subtle, the stress (or karma) is still stored there and has to be released. Karma is what tradition would state, not stress. Generally one would practice a technique to resolve the karmic eddies that still exist in the pranic body. Once practicing such a technique, then one can follow various signs to see how that's working. MMY's position is a marketable one, that's all, otherwise it's utterly fallacious and misleading. Muktananda just touches on some basics, but does give an idea of what is involved.
[FairfieldLife] Escher's Relativity in LEGO
- http://www.andrewlipson.com/escher/relativity.html neat!
[FairfieldLife] Re: A different explanation of stress release
---Yea...Swami Muktananda - it appears from available evidence that he was quite adept at molesting underage Daughters of his disciples. Looks like a mismatch between speech and action! He initiated me into Shaktipat in 1980. (dug his fingers into my eyeballs and a brilliant image of himself appeared in my visual field). In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: When reading the following passage from Swami Muktananda's Satsang with Baba, Volume III (August 18, 1972, page 122), I thought that it was another explanation of the mechanics of stress release; that is, that the thoughts we have during meditation are indications of stress being released on the physical level: According to the seers of the yogic scriptures, countless impressions of past lives are embedded in the central nadi, sushumna. After Kundalini becomes awake, these impressions start rising to the surface. You should be aware that they are coming to the surface to be ejected from the system. If you are aware of this truth, you will find it entirely pointless to be concerned or overwhelmed by the feelings that come to the conscious surface. Very nice; many thanks, Shemp! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advice Sought
---an intellectual discourse on the origins of Vedic vs non-Vedic; etc, is lower on my list of priorities than the fact that TM works!. What does your guru have to offer, the Dance of the Vajra? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 23, 2007, at 11:49 AM, John Davis wrote: The concept/fact of the TM mantras being older than the Hindu religion, and so also older than the gods named after them, which might then be seen as personalisations of a pre-existing sound, makes a good deal of sense to me. Unfortunately, it is untrue. The mantras all come from ancient tantric traditions and are related to the gods they are associated with up to this day. TM mantras are not vedic, they are tantric. Be rather leery of anyone who tells you otherwise. There's a common myth in the TMO that TM mantras are Vedic (or I've even heard people claim they were from the Rig Veda!). It's simply untrue. Good luck!
[FairfieldLife] Re: guru maharaji
---thx...I received The Knowledge from one of his initiators (a so- called Mahatma) in 1970. That was some powerful experience!; but I continued with TM. Later, a certain journalist insulted Guru Maharaji and the same Mahatma who initiated me (Fakiranand); stalked the journalist and hit him over the head with a blackjack, crushing his skull. The journalist had to have a metal plate placed over his brains. The Mahatma was sent to Germany. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's still going strong under a slightly different name. Youtube him for some very bizarre videos and comments by his idolizers. My brother-in-law has been practicing his meditation technique every morning since the 1970's. Geez, the guy sounds like a ru, uh? --- boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was curious whatever happened to the boy guru of the 70s. He's still going with $$ millions coming in, a community in Australia, and lots of controversy too. The controversy can be found here, interesting: http://www.ex-premie.org/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ __Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
[FairfieldLife] Re: Swindle out on DVD in 2-3 weeks
-- There's no irrefutable proof either way, since worldwide weather undergoes natural (without human intervention) cyclical changes; and we don't know the exact extent to which human activities have contributed to the current level of warming; OR, if the current level will continue to disastrous levels. The problem with your analysis, shemp; is that short of proof in either direction, it's best to error on the side of caution. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must thank whomever it was on this forum that posted about The Great Global Warming Swindle several months ago. This is probably the single most important documentary made in the past 25 years and will undoubtedly have a huge impact upon public policy in not only the United States but the world. I have shown the show, which I was able to obtain on DVD, to about 4 different showings already; that is, to people who saw the Al Gore propaganda shit called An Inconvenient Truth, and Swindle leaves them with their jaw hanging. The DVD version will be updated (presumably to edit out the one interviewee, who appears for only 4 minutes of the 75 minutes who said he was misrepresented) as well as lots of extras. Intolerants and elites, such as new.morning, would be well advised to run, not walk, and get a copy.
[FairfieldLife] David Verrill's statement
http://www.tm.org/maharishi/popups/verrill.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visualizing the E8 root system
--Right, very eloquent; but I see no evidence that Krishna is the Lord of the Universe, in a relative sense. My candidate: The Scientology God, Xenu. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't the Absolute Being synonymous with Natural Law, the Creator of an Intelligent Design? MMY wrote a book called The Science of Being and the Art of Living that should be helpful to you in understanding the basics of what he teaches. So, there is a Science of Being and Intelligent Design which MMY wants to teach in public schools. Now I'm no longer confused. Excerpt from Maharishi's commentary on Bhagavad Gita 4.6: Although manifest creation, which includes men and other creatures, springs from the unmanfest, its manifestation is by virtue of prakriti. But the divine manifestation of the unminanifest Being, which comes to re-establish the forgotten wisdom of life, is by virtue of 'Lila-shakti', which is the very power of the Absolute, an integral part of Its transcendent divine nature. Surgery is the inseparable power of the surgeon. Sometimes it is active, as when the surgeon works at the operating table, but at other times it is latent, as when he is resting at home. Lila- shakti (the play-power of Brahman) functions in an analogous way, and by virtue of this the unmanifest, ever remaining in its absolute state, manifests into creation. The almighty nature of the eternal Being thus maintains Reality in both Its aspects, absolute and relative. The Lord says: 'remaining in My own nature I take birth' just as the sap in a tree appears as a leaf and a flower without losing its quality as sap, so the unmanifest Being, remaining unmanifest, imperishable and eternal, takes birth. Nothing happens to the Absolute, and yet the Incarnation of the Absolute springs up, by virtue of Its own nature. Here the Lord is saying - While remaining in My own nature I take birth through My power of creation, and through that I function; that is how I remain unbound and at the same time am able to restore law and order in creation. CBG p. 189 Though I am unborn and of imperishable nature, though Lord of all beings, yet remaining in My own nature I take birth through My own power of Creation. - BG 4.6
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- Rory, be careful about using the word sweet. Various TMO TB have been known to use that expression, in emulation of MMY. I remember when Jerry Jarvis used to burp like MMY. A real insider might burp and say sweet at the same time!; as well as moving the hand up and down in a characteristic MMY mudra. At Humboldt 70 I always sat way in the back, in the bleechers, while the various TB like Keith Wallace would sit in the front row. Charlie Lutes used to dance by a different drummer and said The Mahareeshee, instead of Maharshi as in Ramana Maharshi.. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yeah, I did- just like to check in sometimes. Like I said, language can be cumbersome or fraught with assumptions if all the angles aren't explicitly covered, and then who the heck wants to read it?! Anyway I appreciate a lot of your stuff as having real substance, and by that I mean I can turn it over and over in my mind and body for a long time, sometimes for years. And I appreciate that, and That! It is very sweet to be appreciated, and naturally makes me wish to give you yet more, to pour yet more ghee-hee-hee as an offering to the flame of your already blazing Heart. Swaha! Take THAT! :-)
[FairfieldLife] The brain is hardwired for morality.
at http://www.tinyurl.com/37wxhy
[FairfieldLife] Re: ignorance is part of totality
--So which is it? Suffering is eliminated, or is it reduced? Occasionally, a scale of 1 to 10 is used in questionnaires to rank one's subjective level of sufferingsay migraines. Are you saying that with a rank of k or below, suffering is eliminated, but reduced if it's above k level? Or, are you saying that anything - 10 or below - can be eliminated? What's your evidence for this? - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comment at bottom: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk claudiouk@ wrote: Ignorance is only apparent, it isn't real - I know, fundamentally and philosophically this is supposed to be so and yes one can appreciate the cleverness in that magical trick - it's only a rope that appears like a snake etc; but experientially suffering is real enough. The deception then becomes not playful but unimaginably cruel. And there is just smugness in the philosophy, no real compassion, unfortunately. It's voyeurism on the part of the Self - witnessing like in a peep show, at safe distance, whilst the whole of creation is left languishing in despair.. **snip to end** It's not the cleverness of the philosophy that removes the sting of suffering but the realization that you can truly remove your attention from the suffering. And that's done just by putting attention on attention. Think of all the surgeries that take place while the patients' attention is removed from the physical plane. It would all be the most hideous of torture except that the patient isn't allowed to feel it. So is that suffering? The same act done with the patient's attention allowed to be drawn to it would result in great suffering, but remove attention and there is no suffering. And if you have children, do you remember when they were very young and they had bad dreams and how scary and upsetting that was for them? Sure, of course, right? But you knew that it was just a dream and that there was no real hurt that happened or could happen. But even so, weren't you still full of compassion for their emotional pain and suffering, even knowing that the cause wasn't real? Of course you were; all any parent wants to do is soothe and comfort their child. No matter how terrible and scary and hurtful life can be, and is for all of us at one time or another, suffering evaporates like nothing and *is* nothing when attention is removed from it. When attention gets drawn to itself on a regular basis then it begins to insinuate itself into every situation and creates a kind of lubrication that reduces the friction (pain) of experience. Kind of like a mag-lev train, or a hydraulic cushion between the experiencer and the experience such that suffering is eliminated or reduced.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reflections on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras
--Thanks, Vaj, as usual!. Your analysis, though astute, is typically Vajian erudite and consistent with history; but I'm into the NOW reality of which M-Fields are predominant. Origins make no difference. By analogy, Toyota is surpassing the other auto makers in sales. This is significant!. ...but I don't care about the origins of Toyota. If we look at the major influences NOW, we can categorize them as a simple list: for example a. the TM Movement on its last legs... (too bad), b. SSRS, c. Ammachi; d. Tibetan Buddhism as a whole e. Neo- Advaita; etc. These types of Movements are what I'm interested in, not an academic analysis of their origins in relationship to the original founders. Make sense?. Thanks again! PS. You could, perhaps, enjoy a lively exchange of ideas with Buddhist scholar Robert Thurman. . - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's only because the three are related in terms of emergence. Non- dual Shaivite Hinduism is likely derived from Zhang Zhung rishi's pre- Buddhist Mantrayana and Mahasandhi. Advaita Vedanta is a Hindu reaction to Nagarjuna's Madhyamaka . One should not confuse advaita with advaya. On May 8, 2007, at 6:20 PM, matrixmonitor wrote: --Precisely!. Among the impersonalist viewpoints, one can merge 3 circles into an overlapping area: 1. Saivite Hinduism (TM fits in here), 2. Buddhism, and 3. Neo-Advaita. Then refer to the standard Advaita-Vedanta texts, such as that Yoga Vasistha, Patanjali, Shankara, Ramana Maharshi recorded messages, and countless Buddhist texts. Conjectures regarding the nature of the highest, or most powerful relative entities, such as Brahma, Vishnu, Krishna, Yahweh, etc; are speculative. IMO, the bottom line is what is the connection to such entities and PHYSICAL reality? If there's no connection, then discussions regarding such Personalities are academic. That is, unless individuals have a real, personal connection to Them on an inner plane level. But basically, unless Krishna can give me a good stock market prediction, I'm not interested in relating to Him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
---Comment below: ...that Hinduism is the only religion that reflects Nature to it's fullest possible extent. Actually, Buddhism is more consistent with the most up-to-date hypotheses concerning Cosmology - i.e. the origins of the universe itself; along with speculations on the major unanswered questions. Briefly, the universe appears to be holographic; and Buddhism had the rudiments of holography in the works of Tien Tai. Thus, Buddhist cosmology was about 1500 years ahead of modern hypotheses. In regard to the nature of the relative self; I regard Buddhism as being superior to Hinduism on the basis of my observations on the body/mind; namely, the body/mind is a bunch components rather than a reincarnating Soul. Thus, from one incarnation to the next, the relative self is continually changing and it would not be correct to say that one had past lives. (the past lives were simply aggregates of components, some of which carry over into the present.) The part of the mind/brain which records the latent memories is (in itself) just another component. In regard to ethics, Buddhism attempts to explain this by intially, fusing the concept with the Laws of Karma and Dharma. Co In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for the delayed response. I agree with you. MMY's version certainly has more depth. True religion should reflect Nature. Hinduism is the only religion that reflects Nature to it's fullest possible extent. The concept of Ethics is Universal. It does not change with time. Unfortunately the Indian Gov't does NOT give any importance or seriousness to the teaching of Ethics in Indian schools. Also no importance is given to Hygiene and sanitation. Both subjects should be taught in all schools all over the World. - Jonathan Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from? I've taught one version or another of a three-credit, college- level ethics course nineteen times during the past two decades, and at this point I am convinced I do not know what either 'ethics' or Ethics really is. One interesting comprehensive philosophical- ethical view that is making a comeback these days (mostly in Catholic circles, but not exclusively so) is natural law theory. Believe it or not, M.'s version is both deeper and better (or at least less intellectualistic) than all of that. In any event, we certainly do not teach ethics in K-12 here. - Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[FairfieldLife] Re: srimad bhagavatam
---You mean the Govardhana Hill. Google it. Something should turn up. The Hare Krishna Guru AC Bhaktivedanta Swami has the most detailed accounts of the exploits of Krishna in his 20+ volumes of the Srimad Bhagavatam. Contact a Hare Krishna at your nearest airport. In regard to the Pundits, it's obvious that they're being treated poorly. There's level of creeping Girishism in what remains of the TMO, as a prelude to a takeover. The Pundits would be better off converting to Mormonism. They could be a new Church of the Latter Day Vedic Pundits. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend wants to know: speaking of the Shrimad Bhagavatam... do you know where i can find the story of krishna holding up the mountain and all the people holding up their sticks to help?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Pundit Vids?
---Thanks, George...you are t...kind! Couldn't bring up the video on this computer but the title said RudraI assume Rudra- Abhisheka or simply called the Rudram, probably the most important long chant to Shiva. Combined with the ritual offerings of flowers, water, etc; to the Murti of Shiva, we have (possibly) the MOST powerful type of puja in our galaxy: the Rudra-Abhishekam. This innovation (though not original); is one of MMY's more brilliant brain-childs; i.e. the idea to use this powerful ritual to dispell the evil vibes. Now I'm wondering what would happen if Girish did the Rudra- Abhishekam. Would he self-destruct? At any rate, one can obtain the Rudram chant from http://www.arunachala.org ...as part of the evening Veda-Parayana. It's chanted by some pundits at the Ramanasramam (Ashram of Ramana Maharshi) in Tiruvannamalai. This particular audio CD may possibly be the most powerful recording of any Skt. chant. Get it right away!. I believe that the Pundit program will collapse in due time when MMY passes away and Girish tries to take over. No matter! Lord Shiva in His infinite Wisdom will always have alternative options. Playing the Rudram on a regular basis will help install the Shiva vibes in your brain. Relying on the Pundits is an uncertain affair. You can get the powerful Shiva vibes right in your room by playing the Rudram tape. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: off_world_beings wrote: Anyone got any Vids of large groups of Maharishi Pundits they care to post online. I remember seeing one of a very large group doing a yagya in Maharishi Nagar. Doubt if there have been any large groups like that since. Would be a good historical video OffWorld could not find this back when you asked for it, but came upon it today! http://globalcountryofworldpeace.org/video/ http://globalcountryofworldpeace.org/video/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Statically Pure vs Dynamically Evolving Spiritual Traditions
--Ethics, as opposed to morals, can be explained, as being independent of, and not needing, religion; since it's obvious that ethical and largely athiestic countries do quite well without religion. The explanation? ethics are hardwired in DNA, and animals have a rudimentary capacity for ethical behavior. Then couple the DNA with game theory and we have a plausible hypothesis for the origins of ethics, but without the need for moral or religious underpinnings. The above viewpoint is consistent with MMY's Natural Law and the concept of Dharma; but various experts have only scratched the surface of possible discourses on the subject. Sakyamuni Buddha and his successors seemed to know more than most. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest george.deforest@ wrote: Jonathan Chadwick wrote: One interesting comprehensive philosophical-ethical view that is making a comeback these days (mostly in Catholic circles, but not exclusively so) is natural law theory. Believe it or not, M.'s version is both deeper and better (or at least less intellectualistic) than all of that. In any event, we certainly do not teach ethics in K-12 here. Catholic Natural Law theory overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#Contemporary_Catholic_Understan\ ding Per excerpts below, Aquinas was interesting, parallel in some ways to logic and frameworks found in the TMO worldview. Aquinas borrowed heavily from Greeks and other traditions. I have a hard time hearing some of aquinas' words through the mouth of Jesus. The height of Greeks philosophy preceeded Christ. If Christ wanted to incorporate such into his message, he could have. From this arises the question about the pure message of christ vs centuries of overlays from other philosophies, moderated and absorbed into christianity and Aquinas oriented Catholicism. Hinduism seems to thrive and live the ideal that there is no one founder, and spiritual knowledge will always be a blend of past phrophets and seers. But christianity, by its name, implies the teachings of christ not a teaching began by christ and moderated, shifted, repackaged, blended, changed, parts thrown away, and updated with many other traditions, thinkers, seers, stumbling neer-do-wells and hoodlums. In TMO I see both currents -- lots of blending of various currents of Hinduism, with modern thought and knowledge. On the other hand, an insistance that on pure vedic teaching is worthy. Excerpts on Aquinas -- the key thinker in Catholic Natural Law theory From the above article. To know what is right, one must use one's reason and apply it to Aquinas' precepts. The most important is the primary precept, self preservation. There are also four subsidiary precepts: procreation, education of children, living in society, and worshipping God (veneration). --- Aquinas viewed theology, or the sacred doctrine, as a science, the raw material data of which consists of written scripture and the tradition of the church. These sources of data were produced by the self-revelation of God to individuals and groups of people throughout history. Faith and reason, while distinct but related, are the two primary tools for processing the data of theology. Aquinas believed both were necessary - or, rather, that the confluence of both was necessary - for one to obtain true knowledge of God. Aquinas blended Greek philosophy and Christian doctrine by suggesting that rational thinking and the study of nature, like revelation, were valid ways to understand God. According to Aquinas, God reveals himself through nature, so to study nature is to study God. The ultimate goals of theology, in Aquinas' mind, are to use reason to grasp the truth about God and to experience salvation through that truth. --- Aquinas denied that human beings have any duty of charity to animals because they are not persons. Otherwise, it would be unlawful to use them for food. But this does not give us license to be cruel to them, for cruel habits might carry over into our treatment of human beings.[17] --- [Substitute God for Being or Brahman] Concerning the nature of God, Aquinas felt the best approach, commonly called the via negativa, is to consider what God is not. This led him to propose five positive statements about the divine qualities:[18] 1. God is simple, without composition of parts, such as body and soul, or matter and form. 2. God is perfect, lacking nothing. That is, God is distinguished from other beings on account of God's complete actuality. 3. God is infinite. That is, God is not finite in the ways that created beings are physically, intellectually, and emotionally limited. This infinity is to be distinguished from infinity of size and infinity of number. 4. God is immutable,
[FairfieldLife] Re: A sea change in the U.S.?
-- This may be true, but when it comes to the religious right, (by way of example), Jerry Falwell believes that he has a pipeline to God and that God has sanctioned the war in Iraq as being just. Multiply such thinking by millions, and we have the current situation! - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Progressive blogger Glenn Greenwald has a post on Salon.com suggesting that a pervasive, profound, and highly positive change is taking place in the political atmosphere. Greenwald quotes from a comment left by one of his readers yesterday on Greenwald's previous post concerning Bill Moyers' recent documentary on the media in the runup to the Iraq war: I have to say that a remarkably intimate, yet expansive, community of thought seems to be forming across television, film, and the Internet. There's a rather quiet, yet intense, movement of thought and expression building. It focuses not so much on any particular ideology (right or left), but on a common, critical-mass thirst to dispel the deception, irrationality, and utter hubris that has been corroding our proud country for what seems like an eternity. An undeniable intellectual and social confluence is rapidly gaining momentum and solidarity. This solidarity is amazingly organic, not hierarchical -- its only guide is the sixth sense of skepticism, outrage, and, yes, reason. It transcends party. It is oceanic, atmospheric. An intellectual, moral, societal, and psychological gestalt as ancient as humanity itself, kept underfoot by a long winter, but indelibly germinating once again with the thaw. It is literally everywhere now. The voices of blindness and rage cannot shake me anymore. I haven't felt such hope in a very long time. Gotta hope he's right. The language struck me, because it isn't about specific events but rather something that sounds suspiciously like what one might call increased coherence in mass consciousness. Read the whole post: http://tinyurl.com/3dc5ya
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'American Justice Upholds Dignity of Meditation'
---Madame Blavatsky seems to have consumed too many magic mushrooms! In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Chadwick jochadw1@ wrote: M. is an important contributor within a long line of people who have brought meditation to the west. Call him what you will - another Madame Blavatsky or whatever - you have to give him that. He'll be remembered. Q. According to one of Madame Blavatsky's books, the Apostle Peter lived in Babylon after the crucifixion. Does that mean he was not martyred under Nero, was not the first Pope, nor buried at the present site of Saint Peter's Basilica in Rome as claimed by the Church; that he did return to Rome after a time, or that Madame Blavatsky dreamed up her own account (either in Isis Unveiled or Secret Doctrine, not sure which) as she did some other materials like (as it says in one of the Alice A. Bailey volumes) parts of the Mahatma Letters? Or is this the kind of question that only the Masters could answer and are not going to? A. This is the kind of question that only the Masters could answer and one is going to now: Madame Blavatsky is correct in her statement that the Apostle Peter did indeed live in Babylon after the Crucifixion. He was instructed to do this after the death of Jesus and continued the work of teaching and healing among the groups who had responded to the teachings of Jesus. He was not martyred (upside down or right way up) under Nero, was not the first Pope, nor buried in Saint Peter's Basilica in Rome as claimed by the Church. There are many other inaccuracies of this kind in the Church's teaching which have still to come to light. However, I do not think these inaccuracies are all that important; the basic teachings of the Christ through Jesus are the important things. http:///www.shareintl.org The richness of historical details, going back millions of years back in history, that Madame Blavatsky unveiled are unparalelled. But as some who inspired hundreds of thousands of people to Seek the Kingdom of Heaven within, Maharishi is unparalelled, IMHO
[FairfieldLife] Re: report on new sidhas
---I still think that butt bouncing is pretty useless. How about healing people or predicting the stock market? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:24:47 AM PDT From: Development Office development @ mum.edu Subject: Good News!- Hundreds of New Yogic Flyers Good News - Maharishi University of Management April 27, 2007 Graduates of CIC 60 Home http://mum.edu/welcome.html Donations http://mum.edu/donations/welcome.shtml Development Office Maharishi University of Management Fairfield, IA 52557 641-472-1180 Email Us mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good News! Archive http://mum.edu/goodnews/welcome.html 72 University Students Become Yogic Flyers during the Past Nine Months During the past nine months of the current fiscal year, 72 University students have become Yogic Flyers. And with the recent completion of CIC 60, 336 new Sidhas have graduated from CIC Flying Blocks held at Maharishi University of Management since July 2006. [MUM students] Drs. Doug and Linda Birx with University student graduates of CIC 60. During this first year of the Invincible America Assembly, it has been a tremendous joy to instruct so many of our dear M.U.M. and Maharishi School students in the Maharishi TM-SidhiSM program. The courses have been large and filled with a grand mixture of students, adults and international guests from many different countries. In the enlivened atmosphere of the Invincible America Assembly, knowledge and experience developed quickly and we were thrilled to witness the parallels between the experiences of the long standing Sidhas and the new Rising Sidhas. There were great waves of Bliss as the new Sidhas entered the Golden Domes for the first time. Everyone who attended any of the graduations was thrilled to hear the tender and yet profound understanding and appreciation expressed by the new Sidhas. We can only marvel at the profound level of experience of the Home of All Knowledge being so clearly experienced by each student who attends Maharishi University of Management. Jai Guru Dev Drs. Doug and Linda Birx TM-Sidhi Program Administrators for North America ®TM-Sidhi, Maharishi School of the Age of Enlightenment, and Maharishi University of Management are registered or common law trademarks licensed to Maharishi Vedic Education Development Corporation and used under sublicense or with permission.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do The Yagya, Do The Yagya
---Save the Cheerleader, save the world! In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very soon, this voice of peace will dominate world society, and the voice of destruction will find its way out. It does not matter. When the light comes, darkness cannot stay. We just handle the light. Do the Yagya, do the Yagya, do the Yagya. Yagya is one thing, and Yogic Flying is another thing. Yagya and Yoga: Yogic Flying is the Yoga, and Yagya is pertaining to action -- one does something. This is in the field of action. Through the field of action, we generate the field of silence. This is that enormously great technology. It uses the means of diversity to create total unity. This is making possibility out of impossibility. This is that power. It is that which is recorded in religions: Man is made in the image of God. Man can inherit that divine dignity which is the light of God in order that His creation does not suffer -- period. His creation does not suffer. In the Vedic Literature, life is bliss (Ananda). Sat Chit Ananda -- eternal Ananda in the field of Consciousness (Chit). Only Consciousness Is. from a Maharishi press conference, two years ago. full text at: http://press-conference.globalgoodnews.com/archive/may/05.05.18.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: SEXY ROMPS OF THE BEATLES' GIGGLING GURU
--Nope. The Barber saw MMY having sex. The barber told me in 1973. (went over this 12 times)...if you can't accept the truth, you have some type of blockage. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Billy wrote: The 'article' is in error as you mentioned, *because* she said the affair started in 1969 at the (reported) age of MMY at 68 years old. So, she is saying that MMY was celibate up to the age of 68, then, for one year he wasn't celibate, then from 1969 till today he was celibate. So, he must have had sexual relations with females for a year, yet neither Ms Pittman nor Nandi Keshore, Magic Alex, John, Paul, George, Ringo, Mike, Donovan or any skin boy or personal secretary, such as Tom Anderson, ever saw him actually doing it, even with the door wide open and with thousands of students passing by on a daily basis for over fifty years. And that the Indian press never suspected a thing. Now that is impressive for a 106 year old man!
[FairfieldLife] Fwd: Sam Harris on Pascal's wager:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], coshlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: at: http://www.tinyurl.com/2h9hfg --- End forwarded message ---
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jyotishi
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Ha! Who gives a flying f*** what their birth time is? What great difference does it make in one's life? Just live your life. Just another aspect of yogi bondage to be terrified about. Oh no! Did I breath out of time with my jyotish? uh-oh! what direction were you facing when you said that?! Must have been south! But seriously, will someone please tell me in no uncertain terms exactly what the value of jyotish is, not in theory, but in actual practice? The most impressive thing I ever saw in jyotish is when Charlie Heath predicted a car accident I got into about a month after his prediction. But, Thanks, yes, yagyas have been used for centuriesthat's what is implied; (and per the Dalai Lama, charitable acts are in order); but the question remains, how to MAXIMIZE one's karmic resources. You have your way, I have my pundit sponsored pujas. I indulge in charitable acts in other ways too. There are multitudes of ways. And, I did not say that these methods were unique to MMY. Yagyas and making offerings to the poor have been around for thousands of years. Don't complicate things unnecessarily. his prediction didn't allow me to stop the accident, so what good was it? Predicting accidents obviously has no value, unless you know the exact timing and can stay at home. What makes Maharishi Jyotish unique is that it can prevent the dangers that have not yet come by using precious stones and yagyas. BS, remedial measures such as gems and yagyas are NOT unique to Maharishi Jyotish. Those as well as other remedial measures such as simple charitable acts have been commonly used for centuries by astrologers to prevent catastrophic events and improve the person's situation. Anytime the movement tells you they have something unique hold on to your wallet.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jyotishi
---ThanksSutphen wants proof that remedial measures (Yagyas, etc, work...) excellent question! Start with chanting first. Do this taste test, as in Coke vs Pepsi.: First, memorize the Gayatri mantra and after a few weeks of gaining proficiency in this, practice japa - 2 rounds per day on a mala. Then compare the circumstances of your life in a month non chanting the mantra. You will notice benefits in terms of greater efficiency, creativity, etc. Next, progress to a greater level of remedial efforts by sponsoring Pujas at http://www.Saranam.com Then compare the circumstances of your life to a period in which you don't sponsor the pujas. Do the above experiments 108 times and keep a log of the results; then report back to me. If you don't at least TRY some of the methods, you won't be able to have any sense of their effectiveness. Looking at the history of Hinduism, you will learn that remedial efforts and various magical practices designed to mitigate the forces of nature came long before the silent meditative practices. The Upanishads - describing in a certain poetic/metaphorical manner - the nature of nondual Reality, came long after the magical practices. Patanjali is a latecomer. Besides, who sets up the rule saying one must follow Patanjali?. I'm into magic: - creating certain cause and effect influences in the environment. (this is in addition to my regular practice of TM). The very oldest verses of the Vedas are magic-oriented; not monist philosophical treatises. The magical world existed for thousands of years before Shankara came along, and thousands of years in Tibet before the advent of Buddhism. In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Ha! Who gives a flying f*** what their birth time is? What great difference does it make in one's life? Just live your life. Just another aspect of yogi bondage to be terrified about. Oh no! Did I breath out of time with my jyotish? uh-oh! what direction were you facing when you said that?! Must have been south! But seriously, will someone please tell me in no uncertain terms exactly what the value of jyotish is, not in theory, but in actual practice? The most impressive thing I ever saw in jyotish is when Charlie Heath predicted a car accident I got into about a month after his prediction. But, his prediction didn't allow me to stop the accident, so what good was it? Predicting accidents obviously has no value, unless you know the exact timing and can stay at home. What makes Maharishi Jyotish unique is that it can prevent the dangers that have not yet come by using precious stones and yagyas. BS, remedial measures such as gems and yagyas are NOT unique to Maharishi Jyotish. Those as well as other remedial measures such as simple charitable acts have been commonly used for centuries by astrologers to prevent catastrophic events and improve the person's situation. Anytime the movement tells you they have something unique hold on to your wallet. And how do precious stones and yagyas avert the danger that has not yet arisen (by the way this is a complete and total distortion of Patanjali. He states that the danger is the identification of the seer with the seen-avidya, not some relative discomfort.) Forget the theory. Show me some empirical proof that a yagya does something? Show me that a gem does something? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is the Institutionalization of Witnessing (sAkSi) a Recipe for Mass Psychosis
--Vaj, this is a thinly veiled attack on MMY's CC. You need some REAL support on your positions: stop trying to lift yourself up by your own bootstraps. First, read what MMY has said in his works: Unity INCLUDES witnessing but goes beyond it into a full state of integration: 100% silence and 100% activity. OTOH: traditional Buddhism separates one out from active life; in which one must become a monk in order to gain maximum benefits. TM coupled with a suitable infusion program (I chant the Gayatri mantra - works for me!); enables one to absorb and radiate the Bliss M-Field into the environment; so that the active side of life is enhanced. Of course, if one chooses to spend hours on end meditating and watching the MMY channel; then one can easily sink into a dissasociative state of Bliss (i.e. become a BN - Bliss Ninny). To prevent that from occurring, don't slide into that trap; but doing so is not peculiar to TM. Buddhists are well known for that; and have virtually cornered a monopoly on BN) Last for now, to use your twisted illogic, can we assume that since one Buddhist has gone crazy while doing mindfulness; that the whold program is warped? Your logic is highly flawed. You keep on trying to bash TM but don't offer an alternative. What's your program and agenda. Speak up, don't be shy!!. This is the Internet: you can say anything you like. [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the Institutionalization of Witnessing (sAkSi) a Recipe for Mass Psychosis? Potentially, it is. The principle of Sakshi (sAkSi) or witness-consciousness is a well known evolutionary stance present in a number of traditions. From my experiential POV (srsti) and both the advaita of Gaudapada and Buddhist atiyoga, the development of witness-consciousness and it's natural resolution is a natural part of inner evolution. In bioenergetic terms this often begins at the level of the hrdyam, the heart chakra. When awareness is centered there, the witness awakens during the deep sleep phase. As presence evolves, this is carried on to the throat chakra and witnessing becomes present during dreaming sleep. As presence is integrated at the level of the ajna-chakra, witnessing pervades the waking state. These are all preludes to samadhi and therefore pre-samadhic states of integratation. It is only above the ajna that samadhi truly can be said to occur. These are not however linear phenomenon, they can occur in any order based on the our own unique subtle physiology. In some people, they may not occur at all. Some traditions (Dzogchen atiyoga) even approach these as unified states of awareness rather than residual, dualistic witnessing states pointing at unitary states. But what happens when witnessing becomes an institutionalized idea, a dogma? Does it lead to the real thing? Or does it present an altogether different situation, one where a favored and sought after experience is replaced with the genuine article? Since there are so many meditative and psychologically pathologic states which *resemble* witness-consciousness this situtation can become extremely problematic in institutions which by design or by accident elevate witnessing to some important status. In term of it's evolutionary status, what witnessing represents in Hindu forms of meditation is a form of consciousness whereby the unconscious mind can unburden itself of patterns which are no longer helpful and set the stage for more unitary modes of awareness (or consciousness). Since, in the state of realtive ignorance, we still have much attachment to neagtive thoughts, emotions and patterns (obscurations or avarana); witnessing these without being involved in them is an evolutionary stance for purification of our own consciousness. Other states which can be mistaken for witnessing: -psychosis -high vata -over-meditative spaciness /over-meditation/ non-regulation of practice -unbalanced kundalini awakening or diverted awakenings -dissociation -depersonalization -extreme fear -non-integrated issues or issues we cannot face or repressed issue which are resurfacing which we cannot face -trauma and post traumatic stress disorder -unprocessed and undigested issues of any kind So how do we know and assure that the states of consciousness we are trying to develop are in fact witness-states and not some form of dissociation, meditative disturbance or psychosis? We know by engaging in proper methods and by being instructed in the proper signs and fine-points of their practice and cultivation. We also know by observing ourselves and knowing ourselves: observing body (the condition of our body), Mind and Voice (our energy or subtle body). Witness-consciousness, like any other state, has it's methods. If you haven't been instructed in these techniques, you
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can TM, Buddhism, and Advaita be merged into one entity?
--Who are the Pleidians and what evidence do you have of their existence? Don't live in outer space!! - In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/12/2007 10:11:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not my ideathey already are, 1. TM as a Movement, using (as a remnant of Hinduism) the Holy Tradition puja; but not as a strong religious ideology. The SBAL and BG would be sufficient adjuncts. In the context of this possible fusion into one Great Tradition (Adi Da's term - Wilber has a similar term for the whole unified body of Monist Sadhanas which form an integral part of Buddhism and Saivite Hinduism); TM could easily be practiced by Buddhists without compromising their philosophical orientation. 2. Next, Advaita, i.e. Neo-Advaita since (1.) emerged from the Advaita Vedanta of Shankara and is thus Advaita; but in recent decades, dozens of self-styled teachers and spontaneously Awakened persons have come out of the wood work; many being oriented to Ramana Maharshi: if not outright devotees of R.M. then at least influenced by him, for example: Eckhart Tolle. If one could venture to compare the total Power of this influential group, vis a vis the remnant of the TM Movement; well...it's safe to say that the TMO is a walking corpse, not knowing it's already a zombie, half-way in the grave. But no matter. Though as a Movement TM will perhaps fizzle out in our lifetimes; countless people will be practicing it in a forthcoming true Age of Enlightenmentpractic will undoubtedly include hordes of Buddhists. 3. Third, as mentioned above, Buddhism can easily adopt TM as a technique (and I predict, will do so on a wholesale basis when circumstances are right). Thus, the 3 Movements mentioned above can be merged into one morphogenetic field, with a complementary mix of diverse energies; all oriented toward the Monist philosophical viewpoint, but adding some additional evolutionary benefits from Buddhism - namely, the Rainbow Light Body. This can be thought of as the ultimate goal of our biological evolution. Using Venn diagrams (as another contributor suggested), we have 3 circles which overlap: Circles A, B, and C. Thus, A intersects B intersects C. We can map prime numbers on each circle, say 2, 3, and 5.. The intersecting area = the product of any of the primes. Of course, the central area = the full unification of all 3 Traditions: 2 * 3 * 5 = 30. How about partial unifications: Say TM + Buddhism. Sure!! This will occur some day, I predict. Not real soon, some day in the future. The possibilities with 3 entities, taken 2 at a time are: Say TM = 2, Advaita = 3 and Buddhism = 5: 1. TM + Advaita = 2 * 3 = 6 2. TM + Buddhism = 2 * 5 = 10 3. Advaita + Buddhism = 3 * 5 = 15. Hope you will be there for the true Age of EnlightenmentHope you will definitely not in it now, contrary to what MMY would have us believe. There's a lot more work to do. To conclude, TM can be merged with Advaita and Buddhism to form one larger hologram having a certain degree of diversity to make things spicey. But essentially, this will become the Great Tradition Adi Da and Wilber talk about under the guise of various labels. The essential ingredient is non-dualism, common to the 3 traditions which are artificially separate at this time. In decades to come, the 3 entities will fuse, and over the centuries, will gradually displace the dualist Monotheistic religions. Bravo! Can't wait. The Hindus will never merge Buddhism with TM. The real changes come worlwide when other races such as the Pleiadian's educate us about their lifestyle. All religions including Buddhism will parish over the next six years. Most of the leaders including the Dalai Lama are not willing to give up their hold on their own thought forms in order to completely surrender to the now. MMY and many other leaders are not willing to work together. Terrorist work much better together than spiritual or religious organizations. Man has created a mind that runs like a machine. As long as he keeps the machine tuned up through constant absorption of doctrine passed on from the past he will continue to grow in his own self made egoic experience of a false sense of self. Who cares what religion you belong to or what non-dual philosophy you follow. We can't even get the majority of humanity to sit in silence for three minutes a day and now the non duality will integrate with duality. Lsoma. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jyotishi
---You need a more detailed calendar chart in order to observe correlations between transits and various events. I recommend Astro Communications Services in San Diego. For Friday, April 13-th, 2007 I have the following transits: 1. Mercury square Mars 2. Venus trine Neptune 3. Uranus sextile Moon 4. Mercury square Saturn 5. Mars inconjunct Mercury. Through experience, I know that this will be a rather unremarkable day with minor disturbances at work by virtue of the Mercury square Saturn. (but nothing to be concerned about). On forthcoming bad days, I double up on my chanting of the Gayatri mantra. The TMO Jyotish readings aren't detailed enough to enable you to effectively observe any correlations. The planet you really have to look out for is Mars. This is a short term trigger lasting approximately 4 days that should alert you to possible trouble. On other topics, I (as opposed to Vaj); will come right out with my game plan for a Jihad against ignorance. First on the agenda: make TM available to everybody on the planet. This project alone could take us about 500 years. If, after giving TM a try, (that is AS TAUGHT BY MMY!); and they prefer not to practice this wonderful technique; they should then give statistically inferior methods a chance, such as various mindfulness techniques one might find in Buddhism. Vaj, I urge you to join with us in spreading TM throughout the world, declaring a Jihad against Ignorance. Should such TM practitioners also be inclined to being devoted to various Buddhist teachers like the Dalai Lama, or Norbu (i.e. Gurus fitting their mold in the centuries to come); fine. I practice TM but am devoted to 3 excellent Buddhist teachers, including Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. But I'm the true Buddhist. You're the errant and misguided Buddhist. [EMAIL PROTECTED], Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I kept a very detailed diary for the years when I was into Jyotish. I would go through a checklist every day and note if I'd been angry, happy, industrious, etc. And then I put all this in a spreadsheet that allowed me to sort out things and see if, you know, I had more sex, or less depression, or business success on days when specific dynamics were operative in my chart. I couldn't find a single correlation. Not a one. When, say, alert alert, Jupiter entered a certain house or WHATEVER, I couldn't find anything that had anything jyotish to point at as the causal agent. Even on the broad level of say, dasha, I couldn't find anything. Oh, yeah, I mood made a lot, and I had fun thinking about the possibilities, but that was it. All unsubstantiated jive. I mean, you'd think I would have found SOMETHING. But, nope, there wasn't always a Mercury debilitated or whatever to say, There, that's the reason I lost it today. Nothing, I tell you, nothing. And I kept good notes like I was an insurance company actuary. Now, add to the fact that I paid money to about ten different astrologers plying their trade in the movement, and that not a single one of them predicted any of the great turmoils of my life, none helped me get clarity about my personality, none told me anything that helped me, you know, handle life. Nope. And add to it that at one point, I think that I paid for the services of every sort new age practitioner that breezed through Fairfield. Oh, the shame of it. I did the Filipino Psychic surgeon, the palm leaf guy, the Sanctuary of the Om guy, the nurse who could just look at you and tell you if you had a disease, Andy Rymer, Gandhi the movement's astrologer, that woman who removed Alien Implants by quietly screeching strange sounds at you, TM advanced techniques, and on and on and on. What was it I got for my eleven thousand bucks spent like this? -- zip. Or worse. That psychic nurse told me -- after taking my check for her $125 fee times SIX for my entire family -- that we were all okay, but this person definitely needed to start eating beef, and this personyada yada. Well, my son had cancer -- advanced cancer -- that we didn't know about at the time, and that nurse just plain missed itand she bragged that she'd gotten her start in the healing business by psychically identifying cancer for a physician she was working with who could then have at the cancer more effectively since it was seen earlier by this nurse's profound abilities. If any jyotishis want a piece of me for debunking their science, have at me. I'll give you my birth's time and place, and let's see if anyone out there can tell me the day my father died. I'll be impressed if they can even get the right decade of my life in which it happened. And, by the way, ordinary physicians are almost no better. One of my sons had a problem that required surgery, and I took him to NINE DOCTORS before the proper diagnosis was reached. My other son with the cancer -- he made it by the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Discussion with Judy about Guru Dev and
--- Jerry initiated me into TM on July 10-th, 1967. He was bald but combed the remaining hair from the sides over on top of his head, giving the appearance of some hair. And yes, the literature made a cc claim of 5 or 7 years. I forgot which. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: new.morning wrote: I am not sure if promise is the word, but in Nov 1967 in Berkeley MMY talked specifically about how TM would result in CC in 5 years for students -- and even had a pamphlet to go along with it which had the 5 years in writing. Maybe so, but I helped Jerry Jarvis set up SIMS at Berkely in 1967 and I was in charge of all printed literature at that time - no pamplet made that claim that I ever sent to the printer. Would that be the Jerry Jarvis that you claim was bald or the real one that most of us dealt with??
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment in 5-7 years
-- Richard, stop living in the past. It's 2007. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would that be the Jerry Jarvis that you claim was bald The half-bald one? or the real one that most of us dealt with?? Never heard of anyone named boo at SIMS. qntmpkt wrote: Jerry initiated me into TM on July 10-th, 1967. He was bald but combed the remaining hair from the sides over on top of his head, giving the appearance of some hair. Compared to the hair I had back then, everyone was bald. That's me with the silly grin on his face: http://www.geocities.com/willytex/images/mmy64.jpg And yes, the literature made a cc claim of 5 or 7 years. I forgot which. If there was any literature with a stated promise of enlightenment in 5-7 years it would have been posted on A.M.T. by Lon P. Stacks, the former top manager on International staff in the TMO Office of Strategic World Wide Publications for the World Plan in Washington DC. Or by John Knapp on Trancenet. Don't have a copy. Don't have a copy of *anything* TM-related. - Barry Wright http://tinyurl.com/2wud25 Richard J. Williams wrote: Maybe so, but I helped Jerry Jarvis set up SIMS at Berkely in 1967 and I was in charge of all printed literature at that time - no pamplet made that claim that I ever sent to the printer.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Two Paradigms
--Many thanks for your excellent first hand account, most enlightening; but be careful of claims as to relative knowledge; otherwise you would be able to pick winning stocks with 100% accuracy (you previously said that one of your stocks went in the right direction while the other one lost $.) That's only 50%. Also, on the two approaches or viewpoints to E (neo-Advaitin vs progressive); a simple clarification in the definition will clear up any potential controversey in advance. For example, if we are using wiki, this source uses the term acquisition and if that's part of the accepted definition, then E must be progressive to be consistent with acquiring something in the context of relative space and time. Also, your outstanding exposition is (in itself) progressive.. High school - seeker; beginning Tm;...etc. That's all linear. Linearity is a useful property of existence that allows for more clear human understanding; since the mind has several arrows of time. Thanks again!. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: So, over coffee on this bright new morning in FFL history, after reading all the posts from last night, and bearing in mind the Reward vs. Punish- ment post I made yesterday, I don't feel like responding to any of them. Instead I'll rap for a little while on a favorite theme -- the two most prevalent approaches to Self Realization. Although there are more than two, of course, I think that one can safely sort them into two piles. The first pile has a label that says, Believes in the concept of non-enlightenment, and the existence of things that can prevent enlightenment. The second label says, Believes in the ever-present existence of enlightenment, that one is always already enlightened, that the only thing necessary to be enlightened is to *realize* that you already are enlightened, and that no obstacles to that realization can or do exist. It seems to me that TM and many other forms of spiritual development fall into the first box, whereas some forms of Advaita or Neo-Advaita or Zen or Taoism fall into the latter. *Both* of these approaches and ways of seeing are valid, in my opinion, in that they describe reality from a particular state of attention. One's *predilection* for one description or the other is all that matters. In the I believe in non-enlightenment box, there seems to me to be a fascination with BLAME. I'm not enlightened because of my stress/my samskaras/ my sins/the state of the world/other people fucking with me/all of the above. If these things weren't present, I'd have an easier pathway to enlightenment. In the I'm always already enlightened box, there seems to be no such fixation on BLAME. It's a path that is more concerned with CHOICE. At every moment of every day, I have the choice to realize and live my ever-present enlightenment. My ability to *make* that choice is not affected by anything. I kinda prefer the latter path, but I understand those who prefer the former. It's a safer path, full of prescriptions for the things one must do to avoid the obstacles and become enlightened, and equally full of proscriptions against doing any of the things that prevent enlightenment. The I'm already enlightened, if I just choose to realize that approach doesn't tend to have that many do's and don'ts. What would be the point, if neither the do's nor the don'ts have any effect on one's always-already-present enlightenment? Anyway, I'm just throwing this out as a potential topic for discussion. If anyone is interested in the subject, pile on. If not, carry on and use your five posts as you choose. Interesting thought about the two paradigms. Reflecting about it for a bit, I've identified four distinct approaches that have taken me: First, it was a matter of discovering what enlightenment was; how it was different from anything else, what it meant-- lasting from the time I was in high school until I learned TM. This was a time where I was searching several different paths, trying them on like clothing and seeing how long I ended up wearing the garment. It was not a time characterized by striving for enlightenment, but rather finding the right vehicle in which to begin my journey. The second mindset I found myself in was after I had begun TM, a practice which had a lot of knowledge to offer, from reading the Gita cover to cover, to taking the SCI course, to the myriad taped lectures of Maharishi, to the experiences of sustained rounding. During this time I was interested in absorbing the totality of the knowledge available to me, and had some brief experiences which caused me to step off the future/past train and enjoy life in the Now. But such experiences were fleeting. I also
[FairfieldLife] Re: Inner Circle Breakout on Girls
--Not true. (Jerry Jarvis). He initiated me in into TM in 1967 and I worked at SIMS with him for several years, until 1973, Dec. I was a paid employe. Willytex, stop trying to nitpick the truth. Just accept it and form your own conclusions!. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there is at least one thing that has been established: Jerry Jarvis was bald in 1973 and didn't get no hair cutting by no hairdresser. Rick Archer wrote: No such thing has been established. Jerry wasn't bald then and probably isn't bald now. Apparently you don't even know Jerry Jarvis - I'll post a picture of his bald pate if you want me to.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Inner Circle Breakout on Girls
--I doubt that you'll be able to collect any dirt on Ramana Maharshi. He's impeccable as to moral standardsin the same category as Guru Dev. n FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: lurk And YOU'RE the one talking about DENIAL Vaj? I have no desire to find dirt on Amma. If there are things out there, let's get them out in the open. Vaj: No, just that it went totally against anything I'd perceived or even heard. Of course I'm open to whatever's there. I have no idea if the negative stories are true or not. I guess time will tell. lurk All the great Saints of modern time have been tried to be disgraced. Yogananda, Krishnamurti, Shri Chimnoy, Maharishi, Swami Premananda, Sai Baba and now possibly Amma. Probably the next on the list is Sri Ravishankar, but he is seen as to young and not a threat, as yet. This is an ongoing and coordinated effort, and if you thought it started with that peanut-farmer Carter, no. It has been going on for a very long time. The writers on this forum could be well adviced to practise self- scrutiny in this matter. Please analyze your deepest motifs for what you write. Some writers are like babies, blurting out without filter problems they are not aware are hidden in themselves, and blame others. Some are very well aware of their motifs. It is a combination of money/greed and religious fundamentalism (mostly Christian). And ofcourse nationalism because they fear Hinduism is going to take over their country. This is happening all over the world, not only in the USA. They are obviously wrong, and as time proceeds these forces will naturally disappear.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Inner Circle Breakout on Girls
--Thanks, Satan is a real being, as real as you, me, Jesus, Bush; etc;...without going into the question of the real substance of things, in essense, if a brilliant holographic image of a person appears in your dream, totally, (almost) blasting you out of your bed, at the very least, such an experience is in a wholly different category than an ordinary dream, or even an ordinary lucid dream. I had such an experience with the Man...yes, Satan himself, on Aug 12, 1998; but I also had an analogous (i.e. comparable in intensity) experience of witnessing the Radiant Form of Jesus on July 17-th, 1996. While the experience of 7-17-96 (the 100-th Anniversary to the day of Ramana Maharshi's Enlightenment...7-17-96) was the most totally mind-blowing episode of my life; it can't compare to my experience with Satan on 8-12-98. Although I'm not at liberty to reveal the message he gave me, I will reveal one astounding vision. In the distance, I saw what appeared to be a Cross (as in the Crucifixion of Jesus); but upon closer examination, it indeed was a type of Crucifix, but numerous couples were entwined on it , not...in a state of suffering...but rather in sexual coupling. They reminded me of one of those snake pits, where the male and female snakes get together in a special place and do their thing. In terms of brilliance, my Satan experience didn't compare to the brilliant Light of Jesus; and in fact seemed to be a type of reflected light, simultaneously emitting a cool darkness as well as a borrowed light. In addition, Satan appeared as an ordinary guy, somewhat like Jeff Bridges wearing a corduroy jacket. Since that time I've had several telepathic communications with Satan. For a time, I called him Lucifer since Satan has evil connotations. He contacted me through telepathy and told me not to call him Lucifer. He prefers Satan. At any rate, he is no longer doing evil, but rather rescuing Souls from the lower astral. Needless to say, those rescued Souls are not gaining entrance into the Jesus Heaven. The Satan Heaven is populated by millions (even billions) of Souls who have no particular interest in being devoted to other entities, or those who are only lukewarm in their own religions commitments. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz peterklutz@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: And with an even lower level of integrity than John Knapp and his minions. Off topic, but how can John have minions when I have none? I try to treat minions really well and I can't keep a single one. (am I scaring them away with my Sex-on-demand rules for minions poster?) For a manual on the stalking of and subsequent care and feeding of minions, check out Christopher Moore's latest novel, You Suck: A Love Story. Tommy and Jody are new vampires. They fall asleep at sunrise and don't wake up until sunset, so they need someone to run errands for them during the day. So they find a 19-year-old Goth girl named Abby Normal and make her their minion. It's just to die for; whole chapters are written in the form of Abby writing in her Journal. Very, very funny stuff. Thanks for confirming who you are: a closet-Satanist.. Closets are for pussies. Satan and I party down. Actually, were Satan a real being, I have no doubt that he'd be *much* more fun to party down with than Jesus or Mohammed or any of those saints we read about in stories of India and Tibet. The exceptions, of course, are the weirdass guys like Padmasambhava and Ikkyu and the Sixth Dalai Lama and Chogyam Trungpa and the other spiritual teachers who were pretty much off the map. THEY would be fun to party down with. But the holy guys, give me a break. What kinda stories have THEY got to tell when they get a few pints in them?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Inner Circle Breakout on Girls
--It's true, but there are more bizarre things in life. MMY's hairdresser told me (1973) that he accidently walked by MMY's open door at a course in India; and he was in a sexual embrace with a female. So what? What are the implications? - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to my sources, the Maharishi wasn't even in a hotel room at TTC - he was flown in on a helicopter each day to give his talk in the lobby and then he went back to Meru in Switzerland to be with Ms Pittman. Rick Archer wrote: During the early, big TTCs, like Mallorca and La Antilla, Maharishi was in residence pretty much the whole time. So, you're thinking that the Maharishi had sex in an unlocked hotel room in Mallorca and La Antilla, with hundreds of students around him all the time watching his every move, with skin boys and secretaries waiting outside the door, with Jerry and Charlie going in and out of the room at all hours of the day and night, but nobody ever saw Mahesh with his dhoti down. Maybe so, but it sure seems like a stretch to me. It must have really been a quickie! Man, this guy Mahesh was awesome if he was able to pull that off! I've got a whole new respect for the guy. I can't even take a nap under the bridge without being taken to task by Judy, and she's a thousand miles away. During the mid-70's in there were smaller TTCs in Switzerland and France and he visited these by helicopter, sometimes by car, usually near the end. So, you're thinking that Mahesh flew in to the smaller TTCs in order to get laid in a hotel room, but that he wasn't interested in Ms Pittman who was waiting for him back at Meru? And that he was only interested in having sex with skinny white girls who were exhausted after following him around the hotel for sixteen hours? Maybe so, but what I can't seem to figure out is why the Maharishi bashers like John Knapp, Mike Doughney, Don Krieger, and Tom Anderson never mentioned these sex escapades in over ten years of posting to Usenet.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer as to the where abouts of Guru Dev's 'Spirit'...
---that's all true: (bodiless Enlightened Guru is everywhere); but so is everything else. The real question is, does the Guru still appear to people in a subtle body? Yes. In 1988 Guru Dev appeared to me in the dream state, in a brilliant vision, and initiated me into a Durga mantra. Jesus appears to people in visions and the dream state. So does Ramana Maharshi. Are these subtle bodies real compared to physical bodies. Yes, even more so!. One might say, these bodies are only holographic simulacra. That's what all bodies are anyway. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Magoo wgm4u@ wrote: Brahmachari 'Swami' Satyanand speaking c1967 about Guru Dev's 'nirvana',:- snip just a half a minute or two seconds after, a flash came and it appeared to me that Guru Dev was scolding me; What a fool you are! You have been with me for all these many months and years, and you heard my discourses too. Is it a moment of feeling sorry? Why should you be sorry today? And you think that I am gone, where am I gone? Till now whenever you wanted to meet me, you had, you had to come to the place where I was, and today when I have attained nirvana, I am everywhere, I am omnipresent. Where have I gone? Very foolish for you to mourn on this occasion. I am with you, here, there, everywhere. Why should you be sorry? Lovely. I think that's a wonderful insight into the nature of omnipresence, as opposed to continued presence. One of the metaphors that the Rama guy I studied with used that I always liked was the teacher as doorway. The enlightened teacher -- if that is what you consider them to be -- is best viewed as a doorway to the infinite. If he or she is living the infinite on a daily basis, then when you look at them you're really looking through them, to what's really important. *They* are not important at all, except *as* a doorway to the infinite. The problem that arises sometimes is that students get fixated on the doorway, and forget to look through it, to what is really important. Thus when the doorway dies, they often find themselves look- ing for the infinite in the form of something very finite -- the teacher, the doorway -- when in reality, it's everywhere and everything. I do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; I seek the things they sought. -- Basho
[FairfieldLife] Naomi Wolf's holographic vision of Jesus
http://www.tinyurl.com/37v4wb Naomi Wolf, one of America#146;s foremost feminist thinkers, has found a spiritual awakening in God after experiencing a #147;mystical encounter#148; with Jesus. Wolf, best known as the author of the Beauty Myth, a groundbreaking 1991 polemic against the cosmetics industry that radicalised a generation of young women, revealed the cause of a hitherto unexplained mid-life crisis that set her on a #147;spiritual path#148;. In an interview with the Sunday Herald, Wolf spoke publicly for the first time about her vision. Her comments will spark a theological skirmish in the United States and leave her open to further attacks from other feminist critics. Wolf admitted that, during a therapy session to treat writer#146;s block, she encountered what she described as a holographic image of Jesus. #147;I actually had this vision of Jesus, and I#146;m sure it was Jesus,#148; said Wolf. #147;But it wasn#146;t this crazy theological thing; it was just this figure who was the most perfected human being that there could be #150; full of light and full of love.#148; More bizarrely, she experienced this as a teenage boy. #147;I was a 13- year-old boy sitting next to him and feeling feelings I#146;d never felt in my lifetime,#148; said Wolf. #147;[Feelings] of a boy being with an older male who he really loves and admires and loves to be in the presence of. It was probably the most profound experience of my life. I haven#146;t talked about it publicly.#148; Wolf emphasised that her spiritual renewal strengthened her commitment to feminism as her life mission. #147;I believe that each of us is here to help repair the world,#148; she said. #147;My particular mission seems to be about helping women remember what#146;s sacred about them or what#146;s sacred about femininity .#148; She also expressed apprehension that her faith would be hijacked by religious groups. #147;I don#146;t want to be co-opted as the poster child for any religion or any agenda,#148; said Wolf, who was brought up in a liberal Jewish household. #147;There are a lot of people out there just waiting for some little Jewish feminist to cross over. I don#146;t claim to get where this being fits into the scheme of things but I absolutely believe in divine providence now, absolutely believe God totally cares about every single one of us intimately.#148; Despite pleas to distance her faith from any religion, her admission to seeing the #147;child of God#148; will trigger a theological battle between the American Christian right and the Jewish lobby over the ownership of her soul. Wolf, a one-time adviser to President Clinton, has been attacked before by the Republican right in 2000 when it was revealed she advised Al Gore to start behaving like an #147;alpha#148; male in his presidential campaign. In America#146;s fractured feminist movement, Wolf#146;s pronouncement will be leapt on as further evidence that she has strayed from the mainstream. Wolf has often been verbally mauled by other feminist writers for her embracing thesis of feminism. In a series of successful books, Wolf has projected her own experiences into a universal ideology for women. Her critics, led by Camille Paglia, accuse her of being a lightweight . However, among British feminists Wolf#146;s confession is likely to be met with mild bemusement. #147;I can#146;t say I am too surprised,#148; said Joan Smith, commentator and author of several feminist studies. #147;I do recall in one of her earlier books she talked about the universe calling her name. But I have always thought of her as an emotional writer, not an intellectual one.#148; In America, finding God is an acceptable resolution to mid-life crisis and, Smith said, there is room within feminism for spiritualism in much the same way as other movements accommodate their own spiritual wings.
[FairfieldLife] Re: enlightenment just another RELATIVE
---below: Vaj, like Sam Harris (a closet Buddhist - read The End of Faith carefully, especially the footnotes), wants to divorce the pure yogic sciences from religions paraphenalia. Here's his quote: great, it succeeds; to the extent that it becomes a religion, it fails. I get the same thing from Hinduism: give me the pure yogic sciences, I can do without the Hindu Dumbo. [end quote, Prof. Vaj] There's a major problem with this: Enlightened Gurus transmit some type of energy which is crucial to creating vehicles for transcendence. That energy is typically attached to, via types of morphogenetic fields, the icons of traditional religion which have soaked up power for hundreds or thousands of years. These may take the forms of visual mandalas, images of Saints, Crucifixes, mantras, etc;... Typical example: Vatican II sought to make the Mass more accessible to various cultures by clensing it of the Latin Mumbo Jumbo. This backfired to a certain extent because the Latin Mass had a lot of Power in it. As soon as you starting taking away all the stuff Vaj and Sam Harris consider to be excess baggage, you are left with no vehicle through which raw Spiritual Power can become transmitted. If Vaj knew more about his own Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, he would realize that Norbu is in agreement with the above. To quote from Dzogchen Teachings by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, p.82, the section on Fixation with an Object. First, the Guru defines Shine: (The fact is, we line in the relative condition, in the midst of great confustion, and as a result oall this we may develop many mental problems. So the first thing we need to do is to discover and enter a calm state of mindThe final goal of Shine is to enable us to enter into the experience of emptiness. Next, the Guru gets int Fixation with an Object, being methods which help facilitate Shine, or mental equanimnity: To arrive at this experience, we begin our practice of Shine with fixation, fixing our eyes on an object such as a statue of the Buddha, or a thangka, such as a painting of Manjushri, or a small piece of wood or stone. In any event we place an object in front of us, and fix our gaze and our attention on it one-pointedly. Why do we practice Shine using an object in this way? We line in a dualistic condition, and are very used to the objects of dualistic perception. If we don't have something concrete in front of us, it is harder to do the practice. To conclude this topic, Vaj's two points have serious flaws. (i.e. just these two for now, among many of his erronous notions): 1. As to doing away with religion and simply extracting the pure Yogic practices; (another stupid idea shared by Sam Harris), this wouldn't work in practice since (often) the power of Traditions is embedded in religious icons (visual or auditory morphogenetic fields); and if you do away with the icons, the desired energy may having no vehicle for transmission. In TM, the mantra is the vehicle. In Dzogchen, it's the Guru - and that requires some type of connection, hopefully sitting in the Guru's physical presence as some retreat (costing tons of $). In addition, from the previous quotes from Vaj's Guru Norbu, we see that dualistic icons are legitimate tools in beginning with Shine and progressing to emptiness. However, whereas in Dzogchen one progresses to Fixation without an object (page 83); in TM; there's a more natural progression in which the mantra simply vanishes into the Transcendent. With more experience, sensory input continues along with absorbtion into emptiness. Thus, TM is superior since it doesn't require an artificial two- staged Sadhana of a. with an object and b. without an object. That's enough for now. To be continued. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 6, 2007, at 6:32 PM, claudiouk wrote: Feeling rather disillusioned right now about enlightenment. Firstly on a personal level - a dead loss. Secondly as regards MMY even if he is enlightened there are just too many things that appear wrong about it to me - his mismanagement of followers and Movement resources opportunities, his total lack of any aesthetic sense (witness the ridiculous music and lyrics he's promoting on the Maharishi Channel, which would immediately put off any curious onlooker!); the catalogue of tales of woe outlined in Fairfield Life, including insensitive irresponsible dealings with distressed meditators and sexual misconduct from MMY downwards in the hierarchy, some of which MUST be true; It does speak for itself in a lot of ways. Mohammed's legacy of holy war and suicide bombers and the appalling mistreatment of women and other innocent victims at the hands of Islam - a complete turn off. If you get a chance, see the film (now on DVD), _Islam: What the West Needs to Know_. You might just find the turn off had a basis. Christianity and its
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why TM'rs are WRONG about democracy (was: Are you with us, or against us?)
---Below (Neo-Advaitin baloney that nothing exists). Factually incorect. You are confusing nothing as the null-set with relative existence which in itself has no independent existence. By using the phrase nothing at all, you fail to discriminate between the two classes of nothings. In fact, the you - in all people, Enlightened or not, is something: some type of biomass AS Consciousness. By focusing only on the Nothingness aspect of Brahman, you are basically a dualist. MMY would never fall into this Neo-Advaitin trap. It's pure Communism!. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're actually nothing at all. Quite literally nothing. In fact, you don't even exist. Never have, never will. Never confuse the objects of perception with consciousness. --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of off_world_beings Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 3:08 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Why TM'rs are WRONG about democracy (was: Are you with us, or against us?) People here have a total misunderstanding of what Maharishi is saying. He is (and always has said) that Brahman is the Charioteer, every person is Royalty, every person is divine being, every person is the Cosmic Administrator, every person in the Ruler of the Universe, every person is a Maharishi. There are no kings and subjects. He says that, but he doesn't run the movement that way. The movement is very hierarchical. There is a vast difference between the ways people at opposite ends of the social scale are treated. __ __ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
[FairfieldLife] Genesis Park: Dinosaurs in the Bible.
Genesis Park, no doubt the Biblical counterpart to Jurassic Park. Read what it says http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/bible/bible.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Conservapedia
---Update on Satan: He was converted to Buddhism about a year ago, and is currently working with Jesus to rescue Souls from the lower astral. On Feb 23, 2007, at 7:29 PM, Vaj wrote: Should we keep reading? You be the judge. Maybe we should start writing--there aren't any pages yet on on TM or MMY. But here's the one on our favorite fallen angel: Satan (from the Hebrew ha-satan, accuser) was a member of the divine council who rebelled against God and was cast from Heaven to reign over Hell, where he leads a host of fallen angels (or demons). Satan's goal is to lead people away from the love of God, by tempting or tricking them. The only sources of supernatural power in the world are from either God (good) or Satan (evil). Satan is able to possess and control living humans on Earth, although priests are able to exorcise his influence. Barry, maybe you could provide some up-to-the-minute insights on his activities in the present. Sal
