Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
On 11/14/2014 8:12 PM, steve.sundur wrote: Pure fiction on your part, Barry. This is an invented narrative that unfortunately you use to demean people. You harp on this, missing the fact, that most, if not everyone else here, also allow whatever experiences they might have to come and go without much ado. People should be given leeway to discuss experiences without the politically correct policeman to sanction them for feeling that their experiences may indicate some progress on the spiritual path. /Old Uncle Tantra doesn't even miss the sex magic when it goes away. Go figure./ ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : What I think he's freaking out about is that when they fade, I don't miss them. That fucks with his mind, since he's spent his entire life chasing something I don't even miss when it goes away. :-) *From:* anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, November 14, 2014 8:03 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence) Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
On 11/14/2014 4:34 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: Not so sure about that. According to the Turq himself he was involved because it presented plenty of opportunities to pick up broads. Doesn't sound as if he was into meditation much. /The question is, did he enjoy? There must be a better way to pick up broads than to go on a monk retreat. He said they wouldn't even let him buy an ice cream cone. He seems to be better suited to a householder life in Amsterdam./ ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I really hate to be the person to have to explain this to you, JR, but the Bhagavad-Gita, the Old Testament, and the New Testament are all FICTION. You don't win philosophical discussions by invoking them, any more than if you had invoked the Harry Potter books. /Thanks for the heads up - I always thought your wisdom book was fiction./ http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
Richard, sometimes, and this is one of those times, it's just how you say
something that cracks me up. Yay!
From: 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re:
Non-biological Intelligence)
On 11/14/2014 4:34 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
Not so sure about that. According to the Turq himself he was involved
because it presented plenty of opportunities to pick up broads. Doesn't sound
as if he was into meditation much.
The question is, did he enjoy? There must be a better way to pick up broads
than to go on a monk retreat. He said they wouldn't even let him buy an ice
cream cone. He seems to be better suited to a householder life in Amsterdam.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote :
Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a
total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in
general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons
practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about
their experiences. Success is rare.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote :
Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing,
is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged,
themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of
higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree
interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was
torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and
bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this
happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is
not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how
religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness.
Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying,
whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and
expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has
no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it
chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available,
there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how
tantalizing their memory may be.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five
years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only
a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades
later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy
who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And
that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences
at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Salyavin, You should study jyotish, particularly the Nadi Astrology system. NA can show you why certain things happen even though on the surface it looks brilliant. Specifically, a person may have a strong 9th house which gives good results relating to spirituality and the experiences of samadhi and the siddhis. But a strong 9th house is not necessarily beneficial to the 10th house affairs relating to career and work recognition. This is the reason why knowledge of the cuspal sublords can tell you the ancillary effects of a favorable 9th house. With this knowledge, one can make adjustments to his or her activities and take advantage of what nature has in store for the person. The Cuspal Sublords! I just found the name of my new metal band. I remember their big hit I Can Predict What The Sun Is Going To Do Tomorrow Morning Because I'm So Fuckin' Smart. :-) ', But I love the way you write this stuff as though it all makes some sort of sense and can be used for divination purposes. I've really yet to see it here or anywhere. It only makes sense to those who have previously invested years or decades in believing this kinda crap. Once they have done this, they pretty much *have* to keep believing it, or admit that they wasted their life pursuing nonsense. And we all know THAT is never gonna happen. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Salyavin, What kind of experiences have you had that is comparable to the enlightened beings? I've been there dude. I've talked about it before on here. TM blew my mind for a while, I saw the light, experienced the oneness that is also everything else at the same time but without changing it's own nature. Good trip, not a good long term proposition perhaps. I can see why religions get started over it though, it's easy to think that what is happening inside accurately reflects what's happening outside, and when you get a change of perception like that you might think you are seeing a deeper level of external reality but what we see of the world is created in our heads anyway so changes to that are changes in how our consciousness is created neurophysiologically. I don't think I'd make a very inspiring guru but people reacted differently to me when I was like it, bit of ultra blissed darshan for the guys at work. Maybe I would have got promoted quicker if it had hung around. But I went to live with the TMO because of experiences like this and they never came back. LOL! The rest is history... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Barry, Humans are limited and conditioned beings. Enlightened beings who have understood Being have to show the rest of us in concrete words and deeds the experience of the unified field. Philosophy and its fancy words and ideas, for me, do not convey the real meaning. So, you would have to use discretion in concluding that the world's wisdom books are fiction. A person, who makes criticisms and conclusions without reasonable and logical basis, is a fool. But the bible and the gita are completely different books from different cultures and with different aims among the so-called wisdom of their gods. To cherry pick a few remarks as being some sort of Truth that all ancient religions share is stretching credulity a bit. They aint remotely similar. And as usual, the problem is really that the experiences the wise speak of are the same as the ones I have had but we differ in interpretation of what they mean. In the absence of any information beyond that which can be gained by their senses they created a worldview that I don't think matches up with reality. I've been there, tried it on for size and disagreed with their conclusions. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I really hate to be the person to have to explain this to you, JR, but the Bhagavad-Gita, the Old Testament, and the New Testament are all FICTION. You don't win philosophical discussions by invoking them, any more than if you had invoked the Harry Potter books. From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, Yes, IMO consciousness is alive. The Bhagavad Gita has shown this when Arjuna asked Krishna to show his true self. And, Krishna showed a vision of infinite types of beings to disclose who He is. On the other hand, the Old Testament states that Yahweh is the I AM Who AM. However, in the New Testament, Jesus is shown to be the embodiment of Consciousness in a human form. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : John, what you say
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
From: jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Barry,Humans are limited and conditioned beings. Enlightened beings who have understood Being have to show the rest of us in concrete words and deeds the experience of the unified field. Prove to me that there is or ever has been such a thing as an enlightened being. I'll wait. The thing is, John, you can't do it. You believe in enlightenment for the same reason you believe that these works of fiction are wisdom books, because someone you chose to believe TOLD YOU. That does *NOT* constitute proof. Me, I believe that the subjective experience that some call enlightenment exists. I believe this because I've experienced it for weeks and months at a time. But *having experienced it*, I can say that it was JUST ANOTHER EXPERIENCE. It did *not* make me special, and it doesn 't make anyone *else* special, either. It doesn't make anything they say any more accurate or cosmic or correct or valuable, any more than a profound drug-induced or psychosis-induced subjective experience does. You don't want to believe this because you have invested decades of your life pursuing practices that you believe will make you special. And after all these decades you are really *desperate* to be special. My advice is to relax, because it is never going to happen. Even if you have experiences that convince you that you're enlightened, no one (except the gullible idiots on the Batgap Forum) will treat you any differently, no one will think you're wise, and no one will be any more impressed by you than they ever have been. And if you write a book based on your experiences, it definitely won't be a wisdom book. :-) Philosophy and its fancy words and ideas, for me, do not convey the real meaning. So, you would have to use discretion in concluding that the world's wisdom books are fiction. A person, who makes criticisms and conclusions without reasonable and logical basis, is a fool. You are welcome to believe whatever you want. Personally, I think that anyone who actually believes that these books full of line after line after line of some guy telling other people who it is permissible for them to go out and kill because they believe differently than he does is more than a little bit of a fool. The Harry Potter books not only contain more wisdom than the Bhagavad-Gita, Old Testament, and New Testament combined, they're much better written. If you quote them to make a point, I might actually listen. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I really hate to be the person to have to explain this to you, JR, but the Bhagavad-Gita, the Old Testament, and the New Testament are all FICTION. You don't win philosophical discussions by invoking them, any more than if you had invoked the Harry Potter books. From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, Yes, IMO consciousness is alive. The Bhagavad Gita has shown this when Arjuna asked Krishna to show his true self. And, Krishna showed a vision of infinite types of beings to disclose who He is. On the other hand, the Old Testament states that Yahweh is the I AM Who AM. However, in the New Testament, Jesus is shown to be the embodiment of Consciousness in a human form. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : John, what you say brings up this question for me: is consciousness alive?Hmmm, or maybe better to ask: is Beingness alive? From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, It all depends on what you believe is the basis of the universe. If you believe that consciousness is the basis of the universe, it is likely that you would say biological intelligence is the more common way of development. This is because we know this happens on earth where humans exist. Non-biological intelligence implies that this is created by another type ofbeings--more likely humans or biological entities. I can see how a non-biological intelligence could be an advantage. For example, robots can direct and maintain the functions of a spaceship for centuries, without eating and sleeping like humans, until the destination is reached. In the distant future, humans could develop these intelligent robots to take human sperms and eggs to a nearby or distant star in the Milky Way. When an earthlike planet is reached or found, the robots can artificially inseminate the eggs with sperms to grow human beings who will populate or repopulate the new world. But if there is a faster way to get to the other worlds, then the assumptions would be different. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
On 11/14/2014 2:50 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: */Prove to me that there is or ever has been such a thing as an enlightened being. I'll wait. /* /* */ /Perception is reality- there are no other experiences except those that are subjective. Almost everything we know is based on verbal testimony what someone TOLD US. There is no knowing outside of conscious experience - knowledge is structured in consciousness. Everyone is special by virtue of being human with a self-conscious mind. The proof that everyone is enlightened is consciousness itself. The only reason you don't have the experience of being enlightened is because you are not Self-realized - you are ignorant. You didn't listen to your teachers and you apparently have not even read any wisdom books. Go figure. / */ /* */The thing is, John, you can't do it. You believe in enlightenment for the same reason you believe that these works of fiction are wisdom books, because someone you chose to believe TOLD YOU. That does *NOT* constitute proof. /* */ /* */Me, I believe that the subjective experience that some call enlightenment exists. I believe this because I've experienced it for weeks and months at a time. But *having experienced it*, I can say that it was JUST ANOTHER EXPERIENCE. It did *not* make me special, and it doesn 't make anyone *else* special, either. It doesn't make anything they say any more accurate or cosmic or correct or valuable, any more than a profound drug-induced or psychosis-induced subjective experience does./* */ /* */You don't want to believe this because you have invested decades of your life pursuing practices that you believe will make you special. And after all these decades you are really *desperate* to be special. My advice is to relax, because it is never going to happen. Even if you have experiences that convince you that you're enlightened, no one (except the gullible idiots on the Batgap Forum) will treat you any differently, no one will think you're wise, and no one will be any more impressed by you than they ever have been. /* */And if you write a book based on your experiences, it definitely won't be a wisdom book. :-)/*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/14/2014 2:50 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Prove to me that there is or ever has been such a thing as an enlightened being. I'll wait. Perception is reality- there are no other experiences except those that are subjective. Almost everything we know is based on verbal testimony what someone TOLD US. There is no knowing outside of conscious experience - knowledge is structured in consciousness. Everyone is special by virtue of being human with a self-conscious mind. The proof that everyone is enlightened is consciousness itself. The only reason you don't have the experience of being enlightened is because you are not Self-realized - you are ignorant. You didn't listen to your teachers and you apparently have not even read any wisdom books. Go figure. The thing is, John, you can't do it. You believe in enlightenment for the same reason you believe that these works of fiction are wisdom books, because someone you chose to believe TOLD YOU. That does *NOT* constitute proof. Me,I believe that the subjective experience that some call enlightenment exists. I believe this because I've experienced it for weeks and months at a time. But *having experienced it*, I can say that it was JUST ANOTHER EXPERIENCE. It did *not* make me special, and it doesn 't make anyone *else* special, either. It doesn't make anything they say any more accurate or cosmic or correct or valuable, any more than a profound drug-induced or psychosis-induced subjective experience does. Youdon't want to believe this because you have invested decades of your life pursuing practices that you believe will make you special. And after all these decades you are really *desperate* to be special. My advice is to relax, because it is never going to happen. Even if you have experiences that convince you that you're enlightened, no one (except the gullible idiots on the Batgap Forum) will treat you any differently, no one will think you're wise, and no one will be any more impressed by you than they ever have been. And if you write a book based on your experiences, it definitely won't be a wisdom book. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
What kind of experiences have you had that is comparable to the enlightened beings? On 11/13/2014 5:12 PM, salyavin808 wrote: I've been there dude. I've talked about it before on here. TM blew my mind for a while, I saw the light, experienced the oneness that is also everything else at the same time but without changing it's own nature. Good trip, not a good long term proposition perhaps. */Prove to me that there is or ever has been such a thing as an enlightened being. I'll wait. - TurquoiseB /* I can see why religions get started over it though, it's easy to think that what is happening inside accurately reflects what's happening outside, and when you get a change of perception like that you might think you are seeing a deeper level of external reality but what we see of the world is created in our heads anyway so changes to that are changes in how our consciousness is created neurophysiologically. */You believe in enlightenment for the same reason you believe that these works of fiction are wisdom books, because someone you chose to believe TOLD YOU. That does *NOT* constitute proof. /**/*/- TurquoiseB /* /* I don't think I'd make a very inspiring guru but people reacted differently to me when I was like it, bit of ultra blissed darshan for the guys at work. Maybe I would have got promoted quicker if it had hung around. But I went to live with the TMO because of experiences like this and they never came back. LOL! */...I believe that the subjective experience that some call enlightenment exists. I believe this because I've experienced it for weeks and months at a time. But *having experienced it*, I can say that it was JUST ANOTHER EXPERIENCE. It did *not* make me special, and it doesn 't make anyone *else* special, either. /**/*/- TurquoiseB /*/* The rest is history... */relax, because it is never going to happen. Even if you have experiences that convince you that you're enlightened, no one (except the gullible idiots on the Batgap Forum) will treat you any differently, no one will think you're wise, and no one will be any more impressed by you than they ever have been. /**/*/*/- TurquoiseB /*/* /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
You mean a phoney like a guy who blabbers about how great TM is, even though he can't become an authentic recertified TM teacher since he years ago declared his belief in UFOs, is a follower of Benjy Creme and other stuff the Movement frowns on and ducks his head and hems and haws when someone asks how come he isn't teaching TM??? A phony like that? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence) The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/14/2014 2:50 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Prove to me that there is or ever has been such a thing as an enlightened being. I'll wait. Perception is reality- there are no other experiences except those that are subjective. Almost everything we know is based on verbal testimony what someone TOLD US. There is no knowing outside of conscious experience - knowledge is structured in consciousness. Everyone is special by virtue of being human with a self-conscious mind. The proof that everyone is enlightened is consciousness itself. The only reason you don't have the experience of being enlightened is because you are not Self-realized - you are ignorant. You didn't listen to your teachers and you apparently have not even read any wisdom books. Go figure. The thing is, John, you can't do it. You believe in enlightenment for the same reason you believe that these works of fiction are wisdom books, because someone you chose to believe TOLD YOU. That does *NOT* constitute proof. Me,I believe that the subjective experience that some call enlightenment exists. I believe this because I've experienced it for weeks and months at a time. But *having experienced it*, I can say that it was JUST ANOTHER EXPERIENCE. It did *not* make me special, and it doesn 't make anyone *else* special, either. It doesn't make anything they say any more accurate or cosmic or correct or valuable, any more than a profound drug-induced or psychosis-induced subjective experience does. Youdon't want to believe this because you have invested decades of your life pursuing practices that you believe will make you special. And after all these decades you are really *desperate* to be special. My advice is to relax, because it is never going to happen. Even if you have experiences that convince you that you're enlightened, no one (except the gullible idiots on the Batgap Forum) will treat you any differently, no one will think you're wise, and no one will be any more impressed by you than they ever have been. And if you write a book based on your experiences, it definitely won't be a wisdom book. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/14/2014 2:50 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Prove to me that there is or ever has been such a thing as an enlightened being. I'll wait. Perception is reality- there are no other experiences except those that are subjective. Almost everything we know is based on verbal testimony what someone TOLD US. There is no knowing outside of conscious experience - knowledge is structured in consciousness. Everyone is special by virtue of being human with a self-conscious mind. The proof that everyone is enlightened is consciousness itself. The only reason you don't have the experience of being enlightened is because you are not Self-realized - you are ignorant. You didn't listen to your teachers and you apparently have not even read any wisdom books. Go figure. The thing is, John, you can't do it. You believe in enlightenment for the same reason you believe that these works of fiction are wisdom books, because someone you chose to believe TOLD YOU. That does *NOT* constitute proof. Me,I believe that the subjective experience that some call enlightenment exists. I believe this because I've experienced it for weeks and months at a time. But *having experienced it*, I can say that it was JUST ANOTHER EXPERIENCE. It did *not* make me special, and it doesn 't make anyone *else* special, either. It doesn't make anything they say any more accurate or cosmic or correct or valuable, any more than a profound drug-induced or psychosis-induced subjective experience does. Youdon't want to believe this because you have invested decades of your life pursuing practices that you believe will make you special. And after all these decades you are really *desperate* to be special. My advice is to relax, because it is never going to happen. Even if you have experiences that convince you that you're enlightened, no one (except the gullible idiots on the Batgap Forum) will treat you any differently, no one will think you're wise, and no one will be any more impressed by you than they ever have been. And if you write a book based on your experiences, it definitely won't be a wisdom book. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
No comment on Anartaxius' comment, but I do wish that if Nabby is going to make up shit about me, he at least take a course in remedial math before doing so. He was off by quite a few years in calculating when my first enlightenment experiences were, placing them only a couple of years after I started TM. :-) As anyone who has actually read what I've written on this forum would know (and that of course includes Nabby, who is just...how do I say this delicately...lying), those first experiences in Fiuggi were only the first such experiences. They have continued ever since, from the time I walked away from TM until the present, lasting anywhere from hours to days to weeks to months. What I think he's freaking out about is that when they fade, I don't miss them. That fucks with his mind, since he's spent his entire life chasing something I don't even miss when it goes away. :-) From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence) Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
Barry, You mention the point about subjective experience. You appear to question it. But aren't you basing your criticism based on your own subjective experience? For the same reason, we can say your criticisms are false and foolish. You don't have any evidence for anything you're saying. Therefore, your statements are delusions. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Barry, Humans are limited and conditioned beings. Enlightened beings who have understood Being have to show the rest of us in concrete words and deeds the experience of the unified field. Prove to me that there is or ever has been such a thing as an enlightened being. I'll wait. The thing is, John, you can't do it. You believe in enlightenment for the same reason you believe that these works of fiction are wisdom books, because someone you chose to believe TOLD YOU. That does *NOT* constitute proof. Me, I believe that the subjective experience that some call enlightenment exists. I believe this because I've experienced it for weeks and months at a time. But *having experienced it*, I can say that it was JUST ANOTHER EXPERIENCE. It did *not* make me special, and it doesn 't make anyone *else* special, either. It doesn't make anything they say any more accurate or cosmic or correct or valuable, any more than a profound drug-induced or psychosis-induced subjective experience does. You don't want to believe this because you have invested decades of your life pursuing practices that you believe will make you special. And after all these decades you are really *desperate* to be special. My advice is to relax, because it is never going to happen. Even if you have experiences that convince you that you're enlightened, no one (except the gullible idiots on the Batgap Forum) will treat you any differently, no one will think you're wise, and no one will be any more impressed by you than they ever have been. And if you write a book based on your experiences, it definitely won't be a wisdom book. :-) Philosophy and its fancy words and ideas, for me, do not convey the real meaning. So, you would have to use discretion in concluding that the world's wisdom books are fiction. A person, who makes criticisms and conclusions without reasonable and logical basis, is a fool. You are welcome to believe whatever you want. Personally, I think that anyone who actually believes that these books full of line after line after line of some guy telling other people who it is permissible for them to go out and kill because they believe differently than he does is more than a little bit of a fool. The Harry Potter books not only contain more wisdom than the Bhagavad-Gita, Old Testament, and New Testament combined, they're much better written. If you quote them to make a point, I might actually listen. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I really hate to be the person to have to explain this to you, JR, but the Bhagavad-Gita, the Old Testament, and the New Testament are all FICTION. You don't win philosophical discussions by invoking them, any more than if you had invoked the Harry Potter books. From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, Yes, IMO consciousness is alive. The Bhagavad Gita has shown this when Arjuna asked Krishna to show his true self. And, Krishna showed a vision of infinite types of beings to disclose who He is. On the other hand, the Old Testament states that Yahweh is the I AM Who AM. However, in the New Testament, Jesus is shown to be the embodiment of Consciousness in a human form. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : John, what you say brings up this question for me: is consciousness alive? Hmmm, or maybe better to ask: is Beingness alive? From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, It all depends on what you believe is the basis of the universe. If you believe that consciousness is the basis of the universe, it is likely that you would say biological intelligence is the more common way of development. This is because we know this happens on earth where humans exist. Non-biological intelligence implies that this is created by another type of beings--more likely humans or biological entities. I can see how a non-biological intelligence could be an advantage. For example, robots can direct and maintain the functions of a spaceship for centuries, without eating and sleeping like humans, until the destination is
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
So you were born on February 10th, 1965 some time after 11 PM GMT? We're both LIbra risings so we will argue a bit since that creates a balancing act. You are in your Saturn dasha so things should be going fairly well over all. You're in the Ketu subdasha and Ketu is exalted in your chart and won't be beating you up much. There are definitely some obstacles in your chart but I don't like to go into those on a public forum. On 11/14/2014 12:25 PM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : It's a suggestion. Take it or leave it. Well thank you. You're a natural with the lingo is what I mean. I also mean that no one has ever convinced me, other people believing something counts for nothing with me and astrology is one of those things that just makes no sense as an objective phenomenon that I can see. But I convert for evidence, so I got a chart from a Nadu Astrology site, what do you reckon? Ascendent(Lagan) :Libra 10.02 Ascendent Lord :Ven Moon Sign(Rashi) :TaurusMoon Sign Lord :Ven Birth Star(Nakshatra) :Rohini Birth Star Lord :Mon Lucky Gem :Emerald Lucky No. : 3 Lucky Day :Friday Lucky Color :Green Sun Sign (As per western system) :Aquarius Current Vimshottari Dasa :Sat-Ket You are a Manglik person Currently Under SadeSati :No *Ascendent Chart(Lagan Kundli)* *Planet's position at the time of birth* Planet SignDegree Lord Asc Libra 10.02 Ven Sun Capricorn 28.41 Sat Mon Taurus 19.38 Ven Mar Virgo 03.35 Mer Mer(R) Capricorn 18.53 Sat Jup(R) Aries 24.23 Mar Ven(R) Capricorn 13.43 Sat Sat(R) Aquarius12.21 Sat Rah(R) Taurus 27.40 Ven Ket(R) Scorpio 27.40 Mar *(R)=Retrograte *Navmansha Chart* *Transit Chart *November 14,2014 13:20:45 Sun :Lib 28.01 Mon :Can 27.09 Mar :Sag 20.14 Mer :Lib 14.28 Jup :Can 27.37 Ven :Sco 03.07 Sat :Sco 01.24 Rah(R) :Vir 24.40
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
BTW, it's Nadi astrology not Nadu. The latter will get you WillyTex accusing you of being a Tamil Tiger. :-D On 11/14/2014 12:25 PM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : It's a suggestion. Take it or leave it. Well thank you. You're a natural with the lingo is what I mean. I also mean that no one has ever convinced me, other people believing something counts for nothing with me and astrology is one of those things that just makes no sense as an objective phenomenon that I can see. But I convert for evidence, so I got a chart from a Nadu Astrology site, what do you reckon? Ascendent(Lagan) :Libra 10.02 Ascendent Lord :Ven Moon Sign(Rashi) :TaurusMoon Sign Lord :Ven Birth Star(Nakshatra) :Rohini Birth Star Lord :Mon Lucky Gem :Emerald Lucky No. : 3 Lucky Day :Friday Lucky Color :Green Sun Sign (As per western system) :Aquarius Current Vimshottari Dasa :Sat-Ket You are a Manglik person Currently Under SadeSati :No *Ascendent Chart(Lagan Kundli)* *Planet's position at the time of birth* Planet SignDegree Lord Asc Libra 10.02 Ven Sun Capricorn 28.41 Sat Mon Taurus 19.38 Ven Mar Virgo 03.35 Mer Mer(R) Capricorn 18.53 Sat Jup(R) Aries 24.23 Mar Ven(R) Capricorn 13.43 Sat Sat(R) Aquarius12.21 Sat Rah(R) Taurus 27.40 Ven Ket(R) Scorpio 27.40 Mar *(R)=Retrograte *Navmansha Chart* *Transit Chart *November 14,2014 13:20:45 Sun :Lib 28.01 Mon :Can 27.09 Mar :Sag 20.14 Mer :Lib 14.28 Jup :Can 27.37 Ven :Sco 03.07 Sat :Sco 01.24 Rah(R) :Vir 24.40
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
You mean that Mr. Science has not programmed a formula that will predict the tomorrow's lottery numbers? Of course you only will if it is your destiny and and your destiny to win. :-D On 11/14/2014 01:22 PM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Learn Nadi Astrology and figure it out for yourself, my friend. Aw boo! Tell you what, just give me tomorrows lottery numbers ;-) Good looking chart though, bit worried about the absence of any planets beyond Saturn but I bet everyone says that ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : It's a suggestion. Take it or leave it. Well thank you. You're a natural with the lingo is what I mean. I also mean that no one has ever convinced me, other people believing something counts for nothing with me and astrology is one of those things that just makes no sense as an objective phenomenon that I can see. But I convert for evidence, so I got a chart from a Nadu Astrology site, what do you reckon? Ascendent(Lagan) :Libra 10.02 Ascendent Lord :Ven Moon Sign(Rashi) :TaurusMoon Sign Lord :Ven Birth Star(Nakshatra) :Rohini Birth Star Lord :Mon Lucky Gem :Emerald Lucky No. : 3 Lucky Day :Friday Lucky Color :Green Sun Sign (As per western system) :Aquarius Current Vimshottari Dasa :Sat-Ket You are a Manglik person Currently Under SadeSati :No *Ascendent Chart(Lagan Kundli)* *Planet's position at the time of birth* Planet SignDegree Lord Asc Libra 10.02 Ven Sun Capricorn 28.41 Sat Mon Taurus 19.38 Ven Mar Virgo 03.35 Mer Mer(R) Capricorn 18.53 Sat Jup(R) Aries 24.23 Mar Ven(R) Capricorn 13.43 Sat Sat(R) Aquarius12.21 Sat Rah(R) Taurus 27.40 Ven Ket(R) Scorpio 27.40 Mar *(R)=Retrograte *Navmansha Chart* *Transit Chart *November 14,2014 13:20:45 Sun :Lib 28.01 Mon :Can 27.09 Mar :Sag 20.14 Mer :Lib 14.28 Jup :Can 27.37 Ven :Sco 03.07 Sat :Sco 01.24 Rah(R) :Vir 24.40
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
Not so sure about that. According to the Turq himself he was involved because it presented plenty of opportunities to pick up broads. Doesn't sound as if he was into meditation much. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
I wasn't talking about TM. Please read it again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. On 11/14/2014 1:13 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: No comment on Anartaxius' comment, but I do wish that if Nabby is going to make up shit about me, he at least take a course in remedial math before doing so. He was off by quite a few years in calculating when my first enlightenment experiences were, placing them only a couple of years after I started TM. :-) /So, your practice of TM was NOT a total failure, if what you say is true, and Anartaxius is lying? You two are not even making any sense./ As anyone who has actually read what I've written on this forum would know (and that of course includes Nabby, who is just...how do I say this delicately...lying), those first experiences in Fiuggi were only the first such experiences. /Can you present any PROOF that you've had these experiences? We'll wait./ They have continued ever since, from the time I walked away from TM until the present, lasting anywhere from hours to days to weeks to months. /They all sound like your own subjective experiences, and if so, they don't prove anything except that you read a few wisdom books and borrowed some words from the Puranas./ What I think he's freaking out about is that when they fade, I don't miss them. That fucks with his mind, since he's spent his entire life chasing something I don't even miss when it goes away. :-) /So, how long did you chase your enlightenment experiences - two decades?/ *From:* anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, November 14, 2014 8:03 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence) Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
On 11/14/2014 1:03 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. /Rare except in Barry's case. Apparently he practiced TM for a number of years and had numerous enlightenment experiences that lasted anywhere from hours to days to weeks to months, and when the subjective experience fades, he doesn't even miss it. So, his decades of chasing enlightenment experiences was not a total loss. Somebody got really mixed up. Go figure./ They have continued ever since, from the time I walked away from TM until the present, lasting anywhere from hours to days to weeks to months. - TurquoiseB ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
Pure fiction on your part, Barry. This is an invented narrative that unfortunately you use to demean people. You harp on this, missing the fact, that most, if not everyone else here, also allow whatever experiences they might have to come and go without much ado. People should be given leeway to discuss experiences without the politically correct policeman to sanction them for feeling that their experiences may indicate some progress on the spiritual path. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : What I think he's freaking out about is that when they fade, I don't miss them. That fucks with his mind, since he's spent his entire life chasing something I don't even miss when it goes away. :-) From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence) Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
Actually I kind of skipped over what you said, and was thinking about the post at the bottom of the message you had replied to, not having time to look up the original message. Very unclear what I was responding to. As regards what you wrote, if people collect experiences, that is are attached to the memory of them, it does change them in some way, because they did not do this sort of thing prior to their having had them. I also do not think egoic fear is necessarily the driver either. The ego lives for change, for variety, that is what keeps it going. The mind also needs memories, otherwise it could not even know it was enlightened, so some collection of experience is required; the memory of enough kinds of experiences eventually clues the mind into letting go of attachment to them. If experiences did not expand, the mind would remain as it was. The mind does need something to keep the expansion of experience from simply becoming a stagnant collection, which as you say becomes like a graveyard. The mind has to correlate the experiences in a way it can learn from them. And if it learns something, it has to be able to remember what it learned. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : I wasn't talking about TM. Please read it again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their experiences. Success is rare. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, I saw this, and, this happened once, and, for awhile, this other thing happened. Enlightenment is not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness. Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how tantalizing their memory may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences at all. Yet he judge others, what a phony.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Barry, Humans are limited and conditioned beings. Enlightened beings who have understood Being have to show the rest of us in concrete words and deeds the experience of the unified field. Philosophy and its fancy words and ideas, for me, do not convey the real meaning. So, you would have to use discretion in concluding that the world's wisdom books are fiction. A person, who makes criticisms and conclusions without reasonable and logical basis, is a fool. But the bible and the gita are completely different books from different cultures and with different aims among the so-called wisdom of their gods. To cherry pick a few remarks as being some sort of Truth that all ancient religions share is stretching credulity a bit. They aint remotely similar. And as usual, the problem is really that the experiences the wise speak of are the same as the ones I have had but we differ in interpretation of what they mean. In the absence of any information beyond that which can be gained by their senses they created a worldview that I don't think matches up with reality. I've been there, tried it on for size and disagreed with their conclusions. John is still caught in the same fallacy that Buck is, the belief that subjective experience can ever be interpreted as objective proof of something. It's understandable that he would believe such a preposterous thing, because Maharishi taught exactly that, after all. But it's still nonsense. Subjective experience -- no matter how exalted -- is still JUST SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE. It is proof of nothing, and is *relevant* to NO ONE except the person having the experience. As you have suggested, WE have had such experiences, too. You, me, and Curtis have ALL had enlightenment experiences (as I remember). Curtis has had experiences that convinced him (at the time) of the existence of God. But we all understand that those experiences were what they were -- JUST SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCES. They don't prove anything, and they don't mean anything to anyone but us. John and Buck are still caught up in the Supreme Self Importance taught by Maharishi, that if you have such experiences, you're somehow special, and you get to tell other people what reality is. Also, those other people are supposed to LISTEN, and praise you for telling them. (That's why Jimbo gets so outraged when nobody believes him.) All of this is bullshit, of course. Such experiences may have a value, but they don't really mean anything at all. And they certainly don't transform a human author of fiction into the God-inspired author of a wisdom book. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I really hate to be the person to have to explain this to you, JR, but the Bhagavad-Gita, the Old Testament, and the New Testament are all FICTION. You don't win philosophical discussions by invoking them, any more than if you had invoked the Harry Potter books. From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, Yes, IMO consciousness is alive. The Bhagavad Gita has shown this when Arjuna asked Krishna to show his true self. And, Krishna showed a vision of infinite types of beings to disclose who He is. On the other hand, the Old Testament states that Yahweh is the I AM Who AM. However, in the New Testament, Jesus is shown to be the embodiment of Consciousness in a human form. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : John, what you say brings up this question for me: is consciousness alive?Hmmm, or maybe better to ask: is Beingness alive? From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, It all depends on what you believe is the basis of the universe. If you believe that consciousness is the basis of the universe, it is likely that you would say biological intelligence is the more common way of development. This is because we know this happens on earth where humans exist. Non-biological intelligence implies that this is created by another type ofbeings--more likely humans or biological entities. I can see how a non-biological intelligence could be an advantage. For example, robots can direct and maintain the functions of a spaceship for centuries, without eating and sleeping like humans, until the destination is reached. In the distant future, humans could develop these intelligent robots to take human sperms and eggs to a nearby or distant star in the Milky Way. When an earthlike planet is reached or found, the robots can artificially inseminate the eggs with sperms to grow human beings who will populate or
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-Intelligent Biology (was Re: Non-biological Intelligence)
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Barry, Humans are limited and conditioned beings. Enlightened beings who have understood Being have to show the rest of us in concrete words and deeds the experience of the unified field. Philosophy and its fancy words and ideas, for me, do not convey the real meaning. So, you would have to use discretion in concluding that the world's wisdom books are fiction. A person, who makes criticisms and conclusions without reasonable and logical basis, is a fool. But the bible and the gita are completely different books from different cultures and with different aims among the so-called wisdom of their gods. To cherry pick a few remarks as being some sort of Truth that all ancient religions share is stretching credulity a bit. They aint remotely similar. And as usual, the problem is really that the experiences the wise speak of are the same as the ones I have had but we differ in interpretation of what they mean. In the absence of any information beyond that which can be gained by their senses they created a worldview that I don't think matches up with reality. I've been there, tried it on for size and disagreed with their conclusions. John is still caught in the same fallacy that Buck is, the belief that subjective experience can ever be interpreted as objective proof of something. It's understandable that he would believe such a preposterous thing, because Maharishi taught exactly that, after all. But it's still nonsense. Subjective experience -- no matter how exalted -- is still JUST SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE. It is proof of nothing, and is *relevant* to NO ONE except the person having the experience. As you have suggested, WE have had such experiences, too. You, me, and Curtis have ALL had enlightenment experiences (as I remember). Curtis has had experiences that convinced him (at the time) of the existence of God. But we all understand that those experiences were what they were -- JUST SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCES. They don't prove anything, and they don't mean anything to anyone but us. John and Buck are still caught up in the Supreme Self Importance taught by Maharishi, that if you have such experiences, you're somehow special, and you get to tell other people what reality is. Also, those other people are supposed to LISTEN, and praise you for telling them. (That's why Jimbo gets so outraged when nobody believes him.) All of this is bullshit, of course. Such experiences may have a value, but they don't really mean anything at all. And they certainly don't transform a human author of fiction into the God-inspired author of a wisdom book. Yup. Is all I need add to that... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I really hate to be the person to have to explain this to you, JR, but the Bhagavad-Gita, the Old Testament, and the New Testament are all FICTION. You don't win philosophical discussions by invoking them, any more than if you had invoked the Harry Potter books. From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, Yes, IMO consciousness is alive. The Bhagavad Gita has shown this when Arjuna asked Krishna to show his true self. And, Krishna showed a vision of infinite types of beings to disclose who He is. On the other hand, the Old Testament states that Yahweh is the I AM Who AM. However, in the New Testament, Jesus is shown to be the embodiment of Consciousness in a human form. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : John, what you say brings up this question for me: is consciousness alive? Hmmm, or maybe better to ask: is Beingness alive? From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Non-biological Intelligence Share, It all depends on what you believe is the basis of the universe. If you believe that consciousness is the basis of the universe, it is likely that you would say biological intelligence is the more common way of development. This is because we know this happens on earth where humans exist. Non-biological intelligence implies that this is created by another type of beings--more likely humans or biological entities. I can see how a non-biological intelligence could be an advantage. For example, robots can direct and maintain the functions of a spaceship for centuries, without eating and sleeping like humans, until the destination is reached. In the distant future, humans could develop these intelligent robots to take human sperms and eggs to a nearby or
