Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Wed, 2005-04-20 at 08:16 -0700, Andy Ross wrote: Oliver C. wrote: How does X-Plane 8.1 solve that? It's not that terribly hard: store the texture mesh (2D, from the land use data) and polygon mesh (3D, from the elevation data) separately and do an intersection test when generating them (or even at load time). If the textures are allowed to overlap, you'll need to do multipass stuff or use a multitexture renderer, obviously. Another (somewhat lossy) option is to just create new texture maps from the originals. Take 2 scenery triangles (that share an edge) of roughly the same size and create a square/rectangular texture to cover them with whatever resolution you need. Then fill this texture by sampling the originals. Not all your samples will come from the same texture in the original, but when you're done, FG won't have the added complexity. There are lots of ways to do the sampling, but simply grabbing the nearest texel would be the simplest first attempt and will likely be necessary for more complex methods. It's a little lossy but keeps the complexity in the scenery generation rather than the renderer. If you've got higher resolution imagery than you want in your textures, it starts to become the perfect solution because the losses vanish as this ratio increases. -Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tuesday 19 April 2005 22:52, Paul Surgeon wrote: On Tuesday, 19 April 2005 08:21, eagle monart wrote: i tried to used fgsd but terrains are made in triangles not in squares an it looks impossible to tile what you want . a It's impossible to tile textures properly in FG. FG uses an irregular triangle mesh and not square tiles like MSFS. Even if you managed to tile a texture across the mesh you would still end up with a mess around the edges of the texture where the triangles don't end on the edge of the textures. You would need to clip a texture into the mesh for it to work properly and in the process you end up with a grid or semi tile based system. :) How does X-Plane 8.1 solve that? A nice textured scenery on an irregular grid: http://www.global-scenery.org/ Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Oliver C. wrote: How does X-Plane 8.1 solve that? A nice textured scenery on an irregular grid: http://www.global-scenery.org/ Probably by using multi-texturing. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:32:52 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..ok ;o), did your server do any of the build work, or just control the build and collect the built tiles? ..I have 3 AMD Duron sitting here, one 1.3 and 2 1.2's, all IDE, and clientele hardware, and my own junk, a noisy old 2x550 P3 with swap on 5 9G SCSI's, plus some IDE space, and another pile of _old_ junk the equivalent of a 1GHz box, to play with to do dry test runs, and that could help do the next scenery if I miss this 200 node opportunity, there will always be some boxes in those lease firm batches with bad memory or some cpu mod to have it stand out of the herd, so I play with heterogenous clustering. And thermochemical gasification. ;o) I realize you are trying to nail down exactly how much effort is involved in crunching a world scenery build, but I'm not sure I can answer with as much detail as you are hoping for. .. ;o) I know I didn't run a build process on the server, it just handled nfs. In the early days of the project, I could run an entire build in a few hours on a 25 node ..when or which version scenery, and node spec back then? And, which kinda cluster, Beowulf or Mosix? Url to it? linux cluster, but I don't have access to that any more, at least not at a level where I can abuse it. ..ok, you can still get to it to do as long as they find you and us reasonable not wasting their time fiddling around. ..ops, your build numbers ate away my 2 hour margin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 2*8*24*1700/32 (1700 * 24 * 8 * 2) / 32 = 2.04 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 8*24*(2400+4500)/32 (24 * 8 * (4500 + 2400)) / 32 = 4.14 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 8*24*(2400+4400)/32 (24 * 8 * (4400 + 2400)) / 32 = 4.08 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 8*24*(2400+4200)/32 (24 * 8 * (4200 + 2400)) / 32 = 3.96 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 8*24*(2400+5600)/32 (24 * 8 * (5600 + 2400)) / 32 = 4.8 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 8*24*(2400+5800)/32 (24 * 8 * (5800 + 2400)) / 32 = 4.92 ..we're talking 4 to 5 hours, depending on your AMD 2.something Ghz box. You might find you need to stop the build, fiddle around, restart it, do various things along the way. If you've got a couple boxes, setup terrager and and play with it, and I think you'll have a much better idea of what's involved. Then if you do get access to a large number of machines, you'll be ready to go and won't have to waste time coming up to speed. ..agreed, in my lab I can do a lot of fiddling. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Oliver C. wrote: How does X-Plane 8.1 solve that? It's not that terribly hard: store the texture mesh (2D, from the land use data) and polygon mesh (3D, from the elevation data) separately and do an intersection test when generating them (or even at load time). If the textures are allowed to overlap, you'll need to do multipass stuff or use a multitexture renderer, obviously. Andy ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
hi i am trying to build more realistic terrain. when i am searching i found some info about that on http://baron.flightgear.org/pipermail/flightgear-users/2004-March/007485.html . also i read tutorials about scenery generation in fgsd. my question is which way do i have to follow to build a realistic scenery. (realistic tiles with smooth transaction) .also i want to place specific tiles in exact points. the link http://freespace.virgin.net/mamaloucos.circus/Flightgearweb/index.html is the one that i dreamed. before i start i am not sure about vmap0 coverages apply smooth transactions between tiles.i used to edit andbuild my own sceneries in falcon4.0.autotiling have always errors but as in f4.0 with a terrain editor supported with 3d gui its easier to correct them. i tried to used fgsd but terrains are made in triangles not in squares an it looks impossible to tile what you want . a nowi am looking for information on importing bgl sceneries from msfs. Build terraintiling in msfs terrain generators and convertimport scenery in fgfs (sure i have to import tiles) and then add static objects in fgsd. -- any idea? _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
eagle monart wrote: hi i am trying to build more realistic terrain. when i am searching i found some info about that on http://baron.flightgear.org/pipermail/flightgear-users/2004-March/007485.html . also i read tutorials about scenery generation in fgsd. my question is which way do i have to follow to build a realistic scenery. (realistic tiles with smooth transaction) .also i want to place specific tiles in exact points. the link http://freespace.virgin.net/mamaloucos.circus/Flightgearweb/index.html is the one that i dreamed. before i start i am not sure about vmap0 coverages apply smooth transactions between tiles.i used to edit andbuild my own sceneries in falcon4.0.autotiling have always errors but as in f4.0 with a terrain editor supported with 3d gui its easier to correct them. i tried to used fgsd but terrains are made in triangles not in squares an it looks impossible to tile what you want . a nowi am looking for information on importing bgl sceneries from msfs. Build terraintiling in msfs terrain generators and convertimport scenery in fgfs (sure i have to import tiles) and then add static objects in fgsd. -- any idea? _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d Sorry, no help from me, but this does remind me of something I was thinking about. I had the pleasure of stopping by Niagra Falls this weekend, and it occured to me that the ability to incorporate handmade meshes into the scenery would allow for stuff like the falls, the Matterhorn, Arches national park etc to be really great landmarks. I know that this can be done by hand on a one by one basis now, but I think it would be really neat to just have a database of these places that would get automatically included whenever Curt builds the scenery. Or does it just make more sense to define certain areas where a high res DEM should be used for the input data instead of SRTM? Or maybe they could be built by hand and packaged as replacement tiles, though this would be a lot more work as there would have to be a new version of each for every scenery build. Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Josh Babcock wrote: [...], but I think it would be really neat to just have a database of these places that would get automatically included whenever Curt builds the scenery. This idea, as fine as it is, is not new to the list. The most hindering fact is that there - AFAIK - is no Open implementation of an Open database interface for raster/elevation data. We have PostGIS, an extension to PostgreSQL which enables us to store vectors/shapes/metadata in a database, but a standard for raster data is still missing. I hope Norman will keep us posted in case he has Good News, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:00:28 -0400, Josh wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sorry, no help from me, but this does remind me of something I was thinking about. I had the pleasure of stopping by Niagra Falls this weekend, and it occured to me that the ability to incorporate handmade meshes into the scenery would allow for stuff like the falls, the Matterhorn, Arches national park etc to be really great landmarks. ..Josh, can you script this? I know that this can be done by hand on a one by one basis now, but I think it would be really neat to just have a database of these places that would get automatically included whenever Curt builds the scenery. ..Curt, I need an idea of how much cpu work, building the scenery, is. What kinda machine(s) did you use, and how long did it take to build the scenery? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..Curt, I need an idea of how much cpu work, building the scenery, is. What kinda machine(s) did you use, and how long did it take to build the scenery? I haven't timed the latest builds real close, but figure if you throw a couple machines at it in parallel, it's going to take you at least a full 7 days (x 24 hours) to do the final assembly and crunching. This doesn't include any of the data prep work (which could take weeks if you start from scratch), nor does it include the airport model generation which takes a day or so. And of course this doesn't count any of the time you need to spend sitting down and sorting through tile build problems (or other bugs/missing features) that you haven't gotten around to looking at yet. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:20:13 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..Curt, I need an idea of how much cpu work, building the scenery, is. What kinda machine(s) did you use, and how long did it take to build the scenery? I haven't timed the latest builds real close, but figure if you throw a couple machines at it in parallel, it's going to take you at least ..these are 2 recent machines? Specs? a full 7 days (x 24 hours) to do the final assembly and crunching. This doesn't include any of the data prep work (which could take weeks if you start from scratch), nor does it include the airport model generation which takes a day or so. ..can do ;o), assuming you used 2 Celeron 850's, that makes it 2 hours. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 2*8*24*1700/32 (1700 * 24 * 8 * 2) / 32 = 2.04 1700 is a NTWAG BigoMips figure for a Celeron, 320,000 is for the cluster estimate, I will have to use some machines as switches too. ..to build 12.6GB of scenery, I assume I simply do a rebuild of our last version, se we _can_ shoot for a 25GB target size, if we want it any bigger. Here I WAG the same cpu work per Gig of scenery, which probably is dead wrong. ;o) And of course this doesn't count any of the time you need to spend sitting down and sorting through tile build problems (or other bugs/missing features) that you haven't gotten around to looking at yet. ..very true, and for a 4 hour stunt run, there will be _no_ such bug fix time, it will all have to be scripted, end to end. Watching my gasifier rig remains my top priority, a good 1/3 of my gas is CO, so I dont want _any_ leaks. Regards, Curt. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Arnt, You should be aware that scenery building is much more of a data shuffling job, and much less of a cpu intensive job. The big bottlenecks will be your network bandwidth and server disk IO. Curt. Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:20:13 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..Curt, I need an idea of how much cpu work, building the scenery, is. What kinda machine(s) did you use, and how long did it take to build the scenery? I haven't timed the latest builds real close, but figure if you throw a couple machines at it in parallel, it's going to take you at least ..these are 2 recent machines? Specs? a full 7 days (x 24 hours) to do the final assembly and crunching. This doesn't include any of the data prep work (which could take weeks if you start from scratch), nor does it include the airport model generation which takes a day or so. ..can do ;o), assuming you used 2 Celeron 850's, that makes it 2 hours. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 2*8*24*1700/32 (1700 * 24 * 8 * 2) / 32 = 2.04 1700 is a NTWAG BigoMips figure for a Celeron, 320,000 is for the cluster estimate, I will have to use some machines as switches too. ..to build 12.6GB of scenery, I assume I simply do a rebuild of our last version, se we _can_ shoot for a 25GB target size, if we want it any bigger. Here I WAG the same cpu work per Gig of scenery, which probably is dead wrong. ;o) And of course this doesn't count any of the time you need to spend sitting down and sorting through tile build problems (or other bugs/missing features) that you haven't gotten around to looking at yet. ..very true, and for a 4 hour stunt run, there will be _no_ such bug fix time, it will all have to be scripted, end to end. Watching my gasifier rig remains my top priority, a good 1/3 of my gas is CO, so I dont want _any_ leaks. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tuesday, 19 April 2005 08:21, eagle monart wrote: i tried to used fgsd but terrains are made in triangles not in squares an it looks impossible to tile what you want . a It's impossible to tile textures properly in FG. FG uses an irregular triangle mesh and not square tiles like MSFS. Even if you managed to tile a texture across the mesh you would still end up with a mess around the edges of the texture where the triangles don't end on the edge of the textures. You would need to clip a texture into the mesh for it to work properly and in the process you end up with a grid or semi tile based system. :) nowi am looking for information on importing bgl sceneries from msfs. Build terraintiling in msfs terrain generators and convertimport scenery in fgfs (sure i have to import tiles) and then add static objects in fgsd. Currently there are no tools to do what you want to do and you would have to do some serious work on the FG scenery code to support what you want to do. any idea? You have a few options 1. Learn to live with the FG scenery 2. Code a new or highly modified FG scenery engine 3. Go back to MSFS and pretend you never saw FG Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..Curt, I need an idea of how much cpu work, building the scenery, is. What kinda machine(s) did you use, and how long did it take to build the scenery? I haven't timed the latest builds real close, but figure if you throw a couple machines at it in parallel, it's going to take you at least a full 7 days (x 24 hours) to do the final assembly and crunching. This doesn't include any of the data prep work (which could take weeks if you start from scratch), nor does it include the airport model generation which takes a day or so. And of course this doesn't count any of the time you need to spend sitting down and sorting through tile build problems (or other bugs/missing features) that you haven't gotten around to looking at yet. That pretty much ties in with what I found last time I tried - 3 machines of assorted specs took about a week to generate the scenery tiles from the pre-processed scenery in the work directory. The real problem is the sheer volume of data you're working with. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Paul Surgeon wrote: On Tuesday, 19 April 2005 08:21, eagle monart wrote: i tried to used fgsd but terrains are made in triangles not in squares an it looks impossible to tile what you want . a It's impossible to tile textures properly in FG. FG uses an irregular triangle mesh and not square tiles like MSFS. Even if you managed to tile a texture across the mesh you would still end up with a mess around the edges of the texture where the triangles don't end on the edge of the textures. You would need to clip a texture into the mesh for it to work properly and in the process you end up with a grid or semi tile based system. :) Not strictly true. The contents of /src/Prep/Photo in the terragear source will (assuming it's not broken) allow you to drape a texture over the terrain - this will work for small areas of photo scenery - the problem being the lack of texture paging. This does of course require you to rebuild the appropriate scenery tiles from source data. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:47:18 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt, You should be aware that scenery building is much more of a data shuffling job, and much less of a cpu intensive job. The big bottlenecks will be your network bandwidth and server disk IO. ..ah. Server disk OI I can shot down doing everything on a 25 GB ramdisk, but that too takes network bandwidth. Question is how much do I need of each. ..and you forgot to tell me what kinda machines you used, so I assumed you used 2 of my Celeron 850's. ;o) Curt. Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:20:13 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..Curt, I need an idea of how much cpu work, building the scenery, is. What kinda machine(s) did you use, and how long did it take to build the scenery? I haven't timed the latest builds real close, but figure if you throw a couple machines at it in parallel, it's going to take you at least ..these are 2 recent machines? Specs? a full 7 days (x 24 hours) to do the final assembly and crunching. This doesn't include any of the data prep work (which could take weeks if you start from scratch), nor does it include the airport model generation which takes a day or so. ..can do ;o), assuming you used 2 Celeron 850's, that makes it 2 hours. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ qalc 2*8*24*1700/32 (1700 * 24 * 8 * 2) / 32 = 2.04 1700 is a NTWAG BigoMips figure for a Celeron, 320,000 is for the cluster estimate, I will have to use some machines as switches too. ..to build 12.6GB of scenery, I assume I simply do a rebuild of our last version, se we _can_ shoot for a 25GB target size, if we want it any bigger. Here I WAG the same cpu work per Gig of scenery, which probably is dead wrong. ;o) And of course this doesn't count any of the time you need to spend sitting down and sorting through tile build problems (or other bugs/missing features) that you haven't gotten around to looking at yet. ..very true, and for a 4 hour stunt run, there will be _no_ such bug fix time, it will all have to be scripted, end to end. Watching my gasifier rig remains my top priority, a good 1/3 of my gas is CO, so I dont want _any_ leaks. Regards, Curt. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ..with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..ah. Server disk OI I can shot down doing everything on a 25 GB ramdisk, but that too takes network bandwidth. Question is how much do I need of each. ..and you forgot to tell me what kinda machines you used, so I assumed you used 2 of my Celeron 850's. ;o) I forget exactly for the current scenery build. Probably 1 AMD-1.2Ghz and 1 AMD 2.something Ghz with the server being an AMD 900Mhz, 100 Mbit networking, more IDE than I'd like to admit, but I can't afford a lot of scsi ... Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:45:49 +0100, Jon wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Curtis L. Olson wrote: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..Curt, I need an idea of how much cpu work, building the scenery, is. What kinda machine(s) did you use, and how long did it take to build the scenery? I haven't timed the latest builds real close, but figure if you throw a couple machines at it in parallel, it's going to take you at least a full 7 days (x 24 hours) to do the final assembly and crunching. This doesn't include any of the data prep work (which could take weeks if you start from scratch), nor does it include the airport model generation which takes a day or so. And of course this doesn't count any of the time you need to spend sitting down and sorting through tile build problems (or other bugs/missing features) that you haven't gotten around to looking at yet. That pretty much ties in with what I found last time I tried - 3 machines of assorted specs took about a week to generate the scenery tiles from the pre-processed scenery in the work directory. The real problem is the sheer volume of data you're working with. ..agreed, tell me more about your 3 machines, and was it 6, 7 or 8 days? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:52:50 +0100, Jon wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Paul Surgeon wrote: On Tuesday, 19 April 2005 08:21, eagle monart wrote: i tried to used fgsd but terrains are made in triangles not in squares an it looks impossible to tile what you want . a It's impossible to tile textures properly in FG. FG uses an irregular triangle mesh and not square tiles like MSFS. Even if you managed to tile a texture across the mesh you would still end up with a mess around the edges of the texture where the triangles don't end on the edge of the textures. You would need to clip a texture into the mesh for it to work properly and in the process you end up with a grid or semi tile based system. :) Not strictly true. The contents of /src/Prep/Photo in the terragear source will (assuming it's not broken) allow you to drape a texture over the terrain - this will work for small areas of photo scenery - the problem being the lack of texture paging. ..say I wanna do a 4Gig photo scenery dvd centered around KOSH, leaving 700MB for FG with _everything_, and a knoppix type OS. How much data do I need to suck off World Wind et al, and can I cover say 20, 50, 80NM out from KOSH? This does of course require you to rebuild the appropriate scenery tiles from source data. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On April 19, 2005 09:24 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: I can't afford a lot of scsi ... Have you tried getting these off E-Bay? Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:24:18 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..ah. Server disk OI I can shot down doing everything on a 25 GB ramdisk, but that too takes network bandwidth. Question is how much do I need of each. ..and you forgot to tell me what kinda machines you used, so I assumed you used 2 of my Celeron 850's. ;o) I forget exactly for the current scenery build. Probably 1 AMD-1.2Ghz and 1 AMD 2.something Ghz with the server being an AMD 900Mhz, 100 Mbit networking, more IDE than I'd like to admit, but I can't afford a lot of scsi ... ..ok ;o), did your server do any of the build work, or just control the build and collect the built tiles? ..I have 3 AMD Duron sitting here, one 1.3 and 2 1.2's, all IDE, and clientele hardware, and my own junk, a noisy old 2x550 P3 with swap on 5 9G SCSI's, plus some IDE space, and another pile of _old_ junk the equivalent of a 1GHz box, to play with to do dry test runs, and that could help do the next scenery if I miss this 200 node opportunity, there will always be some boxes in those lease firm batches with bad memory or some cpu mod to have it stand out of the herd, so I play with heterogenous clustering. And thermochemical gasification. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] realistic scenery
Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..ok ;o), did your server do any of the build work, or just control the build and collect the built tiles? ..I have 3 AMD Duron sitting here, one 1.3 and 2 1.2's, all IDE, and clientele hardware, and my own junk, a noisy old 2x550 P3 with swap on 5 9G SCSI's, plus some IDE space, and another pile of _old_ junk the equivalent of a 1GHz box, to play with to do dry test runs, and that could help do the next scenery if I miss this 200 node opportunity, there will always be some boxes in those lease firm batches with bad memory or some cpu mod to have it stand out of the herd, so I play with heterogenous clustering. And thermochemical gasification. ;o) I realize you are trying to nail down exactly how much effort is involved in crunching a world scenery build, but I'm not sure I can answer with as much detail as you are hoping for. I know I didn't run a build process on the server, it just handled nfs. In the early days of the project, I could run an entire build in a few hours on a 25 node linux cluster, but I don't have access to that any more, at least not at a level where I can abuse it. You might find you need to stop the build, fiddle around, restart it, do various things along the way. If you've got a couple boxes, setup terrager and and play with it, and I think you'll have a much better idea of what's involved. Then if you do get access to a large number of machines, you'll be ready to go and won't have to waste time coming up to speed. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
