Re: Two Frame Issues

[Bodvar Bjorgvinsson]

On 1/25/06, Doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Also, sometimes when I use Notepad to edit my Maker.ini file, it
 becomes corrupted.  The EOL markers seem to vanish, the whole thing
 becomes a jumble, and Frame doesn't work properly until I restore an
 uncorrupted version of the file.  What's up with this/


Notepad, I guess. It is known to be not the best of editors,
especially older verisions of it.

Go for TextPad (shareware) or some other _real_ text editor.

This one seems to be very good and is FOC: http://www.context.cx

 Thanks,

 Doug


Bodvar
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Re: batch-upgrading documents 5.5.6 to 7.2?

[Jakob Fix]

Jeremy,

On 25/01/06, Jeremy H. Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:14:44 +0100, Jakob Fix [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 I guess one could save the old files in MIF, and load them in 7.x,
 but how can this be automated?  DZBatcher?  Any other ideas?

 Sure.  Download the free demo version of Mif2Go:
   http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm

 Install it; you only need to copy the two plugin DLL files,
 m2rbook.dll and m2gframe.dll, to the frame\fminit\plugins
 directory, and delete .cache there. (If you also want to try
 Mif2Go itself, do the full install per the User's Guide.)

 After you restart Frame, you'll see Wash via MIF in your
 File menu.  If you shift-File, it does all files in the book.
 Really fast.  Enjoy!

 HTH!

 -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.omsys.com/

thanks, that seems perfect!  I think we'll get eventually around being
a licence. I've been using the free demo a couple of times for one-off
tasks, but it appears to be constantly useful to me!

Thanks to everybody else for responding, I appreciate it.

--
cheers,
Jakob.
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RE: Comparing WebWorks versions

[Etzel, Gary]

 Ideally, we'd like to upgrade to the latest version of all software,
 including FrameMaker v7.2 and WebWorks ePublisher Pro. However,
 Sourcerer (which we absolutely rely on) does not yet support FrameMaker
 v7.2.  So for now we'll stick with Frame v7.1.

I've had several users verify that Sourcerer works with Frame 7.2. We have
not tested it ourselves, so we are not yet listing 7.2. as officially being
supported on our website (www.advantica.biz/sourcerer). I would recommend
that you try it again and then contact me if you encounter any problems. 

 Two of our team members are about to learn how to use WebWorks Publisher
 Pro to create and modify templates. (Current team members know only how
 to apply existing WWP templates.) However, at least one vendor I've
 consulted no longer offers training on WebWorks Publisher Pro version 7;
 it's simply too old. I'm wondering if we should upgrade to WebWorks
 Publisher Pro 2003 or WebWorks ePublisher Pro.

I would not recommend ePublisher Pro -- it is not ready for use with
structured FrameMaker. There are rumors that the next service release will
fix at least one major bug regarding structured cross-references. However,
support for element-based mappings, which was supported in past versions of
WebWorks and is an essential feature if you use structured FrameMaker, seems
to be a long way off. If you do decide to use ePublisher Pro, you need to
base your EDD solely on paragraph and character formats, and not use EDD
context rules to override those formats.

 There is one downside to upgrading: While our desktop publishers will
 have WebWorks Publisher Pro, our authors will have only the WebWorks
 Standard v7 that is included with purchase of FrameMaker. We previously
 found that if we created templates in WWP Pro 2003, authors using WWP
 Standard 7 couldn't output HTML using those templates. (That's why we
 downgraded our WebWorks Pro licenses to version 7.) Having authors
 capable of outputting their own HTML is a luxury for us, but not an
 absolute need.

You don't necessarily need a WebWorks license for each user. We only have
two copies -- one is for the person who maintains our templates, and the
other is installed on a shared PC that is available to any writer. All our
builds are done on the shared PC. So you might be able to set up something
similar to that.

Regards,

Gary




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Re: POLL RESULTS: Which method do you use to apply bold and italics?

[pearlrosenberg]

John,

Did any of the 35 who said they use the Character Catalog, especially 
the adamant ones, say why this method is preferred? (Sorry, I wasn't 
following the thread).

Thanks.
Pearl Rosenberg
TeleHealth Services



- Original Message -
From: John Wilcox [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:08 pm
Subject: POLL RESULTS: Which method do you use to apply bold and 
italics?
  -Original Message- 
  From: John Wilcox 
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:30 PM 
 
  This came up as a possible style standards issue here. 
 ... 
  A. Click the B and I buttons, or press Ctrl+B and Ctrl+I. 
  B. Select Bold and Emphasis from the Character Catalog. 
 
 Of the 37 responses I got, 35 chose B or a variation thereof. 
 
 Most of those 35 were so adamant that I doubt they will be 
 surprised at the 
 results, but I for one had no idea the vote would be so lop-sided. 
 
 All of the variations mentioned involved creating and using use- 
 specificchar tags, such as BookTitle, VariableElement, NewTerm. 
 
 Two people said that using WebWorks, the bold and italic 
 formatting would be 
 lost in the conversion, but I have not found this to be the case, 
 at least 
 in WWEP. 
 
 Thanks to all who replied! As usual, the respondents comprise only 
 a tiny 
 fraction of the list membership, but I suppose they give a pretty 
good 
 snapshot of actual usage. 
 
 
 _ 
 Regards, 
 John Wilcox, Technical Writer 
 Zetron, Redmond 
 
 
 
 
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Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

Jakob, not to be a party-pooper, but I'm not real hot on the idea of
my posts possibly making their way into someone's documentation.

 for some of my recent Frame problems, I received very useful
 information through this mailing list.  I would like to add
 references to these posts to our internal documentation,
 preferably just a URL per post.  However, I'm not sure this 
 is possible with the Lyris


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

So long and thanks for all the fish.
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Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Art Campbell]

Jakob,

I believe, if you read the copyright notice on frameusers.com, you
will see that ownership of posts is retained by the author. And I
would submit that because the content of the site is copyrighted as a
body, that body-of-work further documents each posting as belonging to
the author.

I eagerly await your contract proposal for assigning rights (and the
subsequent royalty checks) for usage of my posts off the list, as I'm
sure most members do. ;- )

Cheers,
Art

On 1/26/06, Jakob Fix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 for some of my recent Frame problems, I received very useful
 information through this mailing list.  I would like to add references
 to these posts to our internal documentation, preferably just a URL
 per post.  However, I'm not sure this is possible with the Lyris
 mailing list software (and its blasted, slow archive).

 Would it be a good idea to add this list to gmane.org?  From the site:

 This is what Gmane offers. Mailing lists are funneled into news
 groups. This isn't a new idea; several mail-to-news gateways exist.
 What's new with Gmane is that no messages are ever expired from the
 server, and the gateway is bidirectional. You can post to some of
 these mailing lists without being subscribed to them yourself,
 depending on whether the mailing lists allow non-subscribers to post
 or not.

 In addition, Gmane does spam detection, cross-post handling, has a
 TMDA-fueled encryption/forwarding service, a web interface, respects
 X-No-Archive, supplies RSS feeds, uses SPF, features user-defined
 filters, gathers traffic statistics, and has a real-time indexing
 search engine.

 Obviously, email addresses are hidden from view and from harvesting.
 It's free. I have no relationship with gmane apart from being a very
 satisfied user.

 What do you think? Lisa?

 --
 cheers,
 Jakob.


--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
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Re: batch convert to MIF

[Art Campbell]

If I were you, I'd ping Jeremy at Omsys, publishers of MIF2Go. If
anyone knows or
could do it, they'd be the guys...

Art

On 1/26/06, Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 would it be possible to write a (or use an existing) tool for saving FM files 
 (any version) as MIF without the need of the FrameMaker application to be 
 running?

 I know we can use DZbatcher or similar tools, but these require FrameMaker to 
 be available.


 Met vriendelijke groet / kind regards,

 Wim Hooghwinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 DTP and XML Management

 Scriptware bv http://www.scriptware.nl
 tel : +31 (0)23 548 48 84
 fax : +31 (0)23 548 48 85
 http://www.scriptware.nl
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
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Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Jakob Fix]

Art,

I know I should refrain from replying ... but ... can't ... must ... answer. :-)

On 26/01/06, Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jakob,

 I believe, if you read the copyright notice on frameusers.com, you
 will see that ownership of posts is retained by the author. And I
 would submit that because the content of the site is copyrighted as a
 body, that body-of-work further documents each posting as belonging to
 the author.

Let's see:

http://www.mail-archive.com/framers@lists.frameusers.com/msg00795.html

How much is this link worth?  And who does it belong to?  Rick?  The
Framers mailing list? The mail-archive.com people?  Just talking about
the link, mind you.

These are really interesting questions, and I won't think we will find
a satisfying answer (42 anyone?), but I also think nobody will be
able to tell whether or not I put these links in an internal document
or not.  So I think I'm safe, for the moment :-).

--
cheers,
Jakob.
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Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

I'm so glad that the technical ability to do it has superceded the
wishes of people who are taking their time to help other list
members.

I'm sure I can find instructions and links on the web to crack
someone's IT enterprise. That must make it OK too.

--- Jakob Fix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sorry, just found out that Framers is archived publicly with
 exactly what I need:
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/framers@lists.frameusers.com/
 
 All is well now (except maybe for John P. :-))


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

So long and thanks for all the fish.
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Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Fred Ridder]

I'm not a lawyer (and I don't play one on TV, either), but I don't see
how publication in any medium of a URL to an item in a publicly available
archive infringes on the original poster's copyright. It seems to me that
publishing a URL is analogous to publishing the ISBN number for a work
published in hard. All you are doing is facilitating someone's ability to
access the original work which is already publicly available.

If you want to carry the copyright thing to such an extreme, how
about forbidding the inclusion of any portion of the original posting
in all replies? That seems to be more of a rights violation to me than
publishing a URL to a public archive.

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel (particularly on intellectual 
property

 issues...)
Fred Ridder
Intel
Parsippany, NJ


From: Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakob Fix [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Framers List framers@frameusers.com
Subject: Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:43:53 -0500

I don't see anything in the archive site that implies that FM posts are not
still copyright by the author.

Art



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RE: POLL RESULTS: Which method do you use to apply bold and italics?

[Harvey, JonX]

I can't think of a better reason than what the guide (via Rick)
says.

* Hi Pearl,

* From the FrameMaker User Guide page 93:

* Applying formats from catalogs is the easiest way to change the look
of 
* text and to ensure that your documents are formatted consistently.
This 
* consistency simplifies making changes later as well as converting
documents 
* to other formats such as HTML.

* Rick Quatro
* Carmen Publishing
* 585-659-8267
* www.frameexpert.com


 John,

 Did any of the 35 who said they use the Character Catalog, especially
 the adamant ones, say why this method is preferred? (Sorry, I wasn't
 following the thread).

 Thanks.
 Pearl Rosenberg
 TeleHealth Services

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Re: Two Frame Issues

[Klaus Mueller]

Hello Doug,

 Format menu option in FrameMaker, the Font, Size, and Style options
 disable and/or remove these options

There's a free FrameScript RemoveFontMenu.fsl at
http://www.itl.de/html/englisch/consulting/fsl/itl-pool.html#misc
It removes the Font menu from the Format menu
and all context menus.

Kind regards,
Klaus Müller, itl AG


--- Original Message ---
From: Doug
Date: 26.01.2006 00:14
 When I click the Format menu option in FrameMaker, the Font, Size, and
 Style options are available.  Obviously this can lead to applying
 format overrides.  I believe someone has created a plug-in that will
 disable and/or remove these options...can someone remind me what the
 name of it is?
 
 Also, sometimes when I use Notepad to edit my Maker.ini file, it
 becomes corrupted.  The EOL markers seem to vanish, the whole thing
 becomes a jumble, and Frame doesn't work properly until I restore an
 uncorrupted version of the file.  What's up with this/
 
 Thanks,
 
 Doug

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Re: Comparing WebWorks versions

[Michael Müller-Hillebrand]

Hello Eileen,

Just today I was asked by the IT coordinator of a client, why there is
an upgrade of the well-known FrameScript plug-in within just 10 months
after the last version. You know the rule: Never change a running
system. Why do you want/need to upgrade at all? Are there any problems
with your current setup?

Some thoughts:

Since you are working with Sourcerer you seem to work with structured
documents: Webworks ePublisher (WWeP) does not support structured
documents at the moment.

Unless you want to redesign your WWP conversion templates from scratch
using WWP2003 wouldn't make a big difference compared to version 7,
because the inner workings (a.k.a. Webworks Macro Language) are the same.

WWP7 and WWP2003 share a technology which is in a kind-of end-of-life
phase -- nevertheless I have quite a lot of clients which benefit from
projects with WWP6, WWP7, or WWP2003 (remember: Never change...). WWeP
internally uses XML and XSL. You could do the same based on your
structured FM documents: Save the content as XML and use custom XSL
transformations to create HTML. In some situations it might be a better
idea to learn XSL (not simple, but a W3C standard!) instead of WebWorks
Macro Language (also not simple!).

Kind regards,

- Michael

On 26.01.2006 01:40, Anderson, Eileen schrieb/wrote:
 My team is using structured FrameMaker v7.1, Sourcerer v1.11, and
 WebWorks Publisher v7.0.6 to create single-source documents to output
 for different audiences and media (including print, PDF, and HTML).
 
 Ideally, we'd like to upgrade to the latest version of all software,
 including FrameMaker v7.2 and WebWorks ePublisher Pro. However,
 Sourcerer (which we absolutely rely on) does not yet support FrameMaker
 v7.2.  So for now we'll stick with Frame v7.1.
 
 Two of our team members are about to learn how to use WebWorks Publisher
 Pro to create and modify templates. (Current team members know only how
 to apply existing WWP templates.) However, at least one vendor I've
 consulted no longer offers training on WebWorks Publisher Pro version 7;
 it's simply too old. I'm wondering if we should upgrade to WebWorks
 Publisher Pro 2003 or WebWorks ePublisher Pro.
 
 There is one downside to upgrading: While our desktop publishers will
 have WebWorks Publisher Pro, our authors will have only the WebWorks
 Standard v7 that is included with purchase of FrameMaker. We previously
 found that if we created templates in WWP Pro 2003, authors using WWP
 Standard 7 couldn't output HTML using those templates. (That's why we
 downgraded our WebWorks Pro licenses to version 7.) Having authors
 capable of outputting their own HTML is a luxury for us, but not an
 absolute need.
 
 So, Framers, this is where I'd like to benefit from your experience and
 advice.
 
 - Have you used WebWorks ePublisher Pro? Do you find it offers
 significant enhancements over prior versions of WebWorks Publisher Pro?
 Is it compatible with FrameMaker version 7.1?
 - Do you see a significant advantage in using WebWorks Publisher Pro
 2003 as compared to WebWorks Publisher Pro version 7?
 - Do you have other thoughts on our situation or lessons learned from
 your experiences with different WebWorks Publisher versions?
 
 Thanks!
 
 - Eileen Anderson
 Manager of Curriculum Editing  Desktop Publishing
 T-Mobile Customer Care Learning  Development
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
_
Michael Müller-Hillebrand  http://cap-studio.de/
WebWorks Publisher Support  Info  http://wwp-support.info/
-
  Please make sure to send follow-up questions to the list.
  Contact me directly with business inquiries or comments.
-
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RE: add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Joe Malin]

Dear Jakob,

I'm glad that you received useful information from the list. I have had
exactly the same experience. I applaud your thought of sharing this
bounty. However, using gmane.org, you can not do this fairly without
contacting each person who signed up to Framers and asking each of them
for permission to do it. If anyone refuses, you can not do it, period. I
think other list users would agree.

When anyone signs up for an e-mail list, they share information to that
list. By doing that, they accept the list's privacy policy. I don't see
a link to it on FrameUsers.com, but I'm sure one exists, if not in
writing then in the minds of the lists' administrators.

If you then put the e-mail list into any tool that exposes it beyond its
intended audience, you've violated the privacy policy.

I won't get into the legal aspects of this, since I'm sure another
respondent will (if it hasn't happened already).

Though your intentions are quite good, I am writing to remind you that
you can't control gmane.org. If you want to publicize framers list, then
publicize it and make individuals sign up for it. That forces them to
break the barrier of anonymity. That is the right, honorable, and decent
way to share information online.

I hope that you will consider it in this light and do the right thing.

Joe

Joe Malin
Technical Writer
(408)625-1623
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
www.tuvox.com
The views expressed in this document are those of the sender, and do not
necessarily reflect those of TuVox, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jakob Fix
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:14 AM
To: Framers List
Subject: add Framers list to gmane.org?

Hello,

for some of my recent Frame problems, I received very useful information
through this mailing list.  I would like to add references to these
posts to our internal documentation, preferably just a URL per post.
However, I'm not sure this is possible with the Lyris mailing list
software (and its blasted, slow archive).
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Re: MIF2Go Wash via MIF

[Art Campbell]

An automated version of the two-aspirin fix:
Save your problem FM file as MIF and open that file to see if the
problem-causing drek has been removed...

Art

On 1/26/06, John Posada [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi, guys...I must have missed something. What IS this MIF washing,
 anyway? What problem does it fix and what does it do?

 John Posada
 Senior Technical Writer

 So long and thanks for all the fish.
 ___


--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
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Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

Stuart...that is not even close to what I object to. Posting a fully
formed URL for easier use by list members within the approved list
community and posting a URL in a source I know nothing about, for use
by people I know nothing about, used in a way and context I know
nothing about are two completely different things. I assume you said
what you did to get a response, not because it made any sense.

 nothing more than an address) constitutes copyright 
 violation, why did 
 you ask us all to do it for you? ( http://tinyurl.com/8dn69 )

John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

So long and thanks for all the fish.
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Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?--Spam implications

[John Huntington]

Jakob Fix wrote:

Sorry, just found out that Framers is archived publicly with exactly what I 
need:

http://www.mail-archive.com/framers@lists.frameusers.com/


And to get back to my point from yesterday, if you click on any of these 
links, the email is shown as [EMAIL PROTECTED]  so that spammers 
can't get the address...


John

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RE: add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

If it gets that far, it is only because the request that I made on
this forum was ignored.

Besides...that isn't extortion. That would be if I came out of
nowhere and threatened harm. I'd only be responding to what I
perceive as harm made first to me.

  going to make Jakob question how important the information in 
  that post really was. 
 
 Yes, you can bully him into doing what you want by 
 threatening them with some sort of harm. That's usually 
 called extortion...


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

So long and thanks for all the fish.
___


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Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]

[Bernard Aschwanden]

U,

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
`1234567890-=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]*()_+
[]\
{}|
;'
:
,./
?

I think that's all the characters I can type. Now that I've typed them, put it 
into an email and sent it to the list, please do not ever use these characters 
or I will come after you in court, at your office and maybe even on the way to 
your appointment at 3:45 with the guy trying to help you with that issue 
related to your golf game.

:)



Google for this:
John Posada frameusers
675 hits

Yahoo:
147 hits

Ask Jeeves
67

Alltheweb
103

search.aol.com
3 pages worth

Teoma
67

Hopefully they all have permission :)





I seriously think that this topic has gotten way goofy, even by my standards. 
If you don't want people to use what you write on the list either just send 
questions or send your answers directly to a person with the legal blather that 
says it's confidential. However, don't post to the group if you don't want them 
to use it. The whole purpose of this list is to make the life of Frame users 
better and this discussion doesn't do so.

If it's in the public domain (which this list really is and so is the web at 
large) then it's likely tough to claim ownership. There are exceptions to the 
rule, but if someone links to a URL that is available to the public and wants 
to make it a reference point to go to for help, so be it.

I think that most, if not all documentation carries the standard if it works 
right, great, and if not then don't blame us that legal wants. Relax people. 
It's just a link. It's just content that helps out people. If someone wants to 
connect to the list via a tool that is used internally or externally let them.

I suggest that anyone who does not want to have content used by others stop 
sending suggestions to the list. Nice and easy.

There's no point in posting the forum elsewhere as I get the results in a 
google search. (h, they have money, can we sue?) If people need to link to 
a valuable resource (read into that postings on the list) then let them do 
so. That's what it is here for.

Now, can we get back to doing real work?

Bernard

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cross-reference problem

[Janice Cadel]

We are using unstructured FM 7.0. Our book contains several chapters. The
files were moved from one location to another location. When the writer
opened up the book, he received an unresolved cross-reference message. He
did a Search on the unresolved-cross references and re-submitted the
cross-references. He was able to generate the book, but the next time he
opened the book, he received the unresolved cross-reference message
again. It was the same cross-references. He corrected them again, and the
whole cycle repeated itself. Does anyone have an idea of why this keeps
happening and how we can resolve it?






---
Janice Cadel
Principal Technical Writer/Editor
Hughes Network Systems, LLC
11717 Exploration Lane
Germantown, MD  20876
301-601-7434
fax: 301-428-2801
---

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Two Frame Issues

[Bodvar Bjorgvinsson]

On 1/25/06, Doug  wrote:
>
> Also, sometimes when I use Notepad to edit my Maker.ini file, it
> becomes corrupted.  The EOL markers seem to vanish, the whole thing
> becomes a jumble, and Frame doesn't work properly until I restore an
> uncorrupted version of the file.  What's up with this/
>

Notepad, I guess. It is known to be not the best of editors,
especially older verisions of it.

Go for TextPad (shareware) or some other _real_ text editor.

This one seems to be very good and is FOC: http://www.context.cx

> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>

Bodvar

batch-upgrading documents 5.5.6 to 7.2?

[Jakob Fix]

Jeremy,

On 25/01/06, Jeremy H. Griffith  wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:14:44 +0100, Jakob Fix 
> wrote:
>
> >I guess one could save the old files in MIF, and load them in 7.x,
> >but how can this be automated?  DZBatcher?  Any other ideas?
>
> Sure.  Download the free demo version of Mif2Go:
>   http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm
>
> Install it; you only need to copy the two plugin DLL files,
> m2rbook.dll and m2gframe.dll, to the frame\fminit\plugins
> directory, and delete .cache there. (If you also want to try
> Mif2Go itself, do the full install per the User's Guide.)
>
> After you restart Frame, you'll see "Wash via MIF" in your
> File menu.  If you shift-File, it does all files in the book.
> Really fast.  Enjoy!
>
> HTH!
>
> -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
> http://www.omsys.com/

thanks, that seems perfect!  I think we'll get eventually around being
a licence. I've been using the free demo a couple of times for one-off
tasks, but it appears to be constantly useful to me!

Thanks to everybody else for responding, I appreciate it.

--
cheers,
Jakob.

batch convert to MIF

[Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware)]

Hi all,

would it be possible to write a (or use an existing) tool for saving FM files 
(any version) as MIF without the need of the FrameMaker application to be 
running?

I know we can use DZbatcher or similar tools, but these require FrameMaker to 
be available.


Met vriendelijke groet / kind regards,

Wim Hooghwinkel wimh at scriptware.nl
DTP and XML Management

Scriptware bv http://www.scriptware.nl
tel : +31 (0)23 548 48 84
fax : +31 (0)23 548 48 85
http://www.scriptware.nl
info at scriptware.nl info at scriptware.nl 

Comparing WebWorks versions

[Etzel, Gary]

> Ideally, we'd like to upgrade to the latest version of all software,
> including FrameMaker v7.2 and WebWorks ePublisher Pro. However,
> Sourcerer (which we absolutely rely on) does not yet support FrameMaker
> v7.2.  So for now we'll stick with Frame v7.1.

I've had several users verify that Sourcerer works with Frame 7.2. We have
not tested it ourselves, so we are not yet listing 7.2. as officially being
"supported" on our website (www.advantica.biz/sourcerer). I would recommend
that you try it again and then contact me if you encounter any problems. 

> Two of our team members are about to learn how to use WebWorks Publisher
> Pro to create and modify templates. (Current team members know only how
> to apply existing WWP templates.) However, at least one vendor I've
> consulted no longer offers training on WebWorks Publisher Pro version 7;
> it's simply too old. I'm wondering if we should upgrade to WebWorks
> Publisher Pro 2003 or WebWorks ePublisher Pro.

I would not recommend ePublisher Pro -- it is not ready for use with
structured FrameMaker. There are rumors that the next service release will
fix at least one major bug regarding structured cross-references. However,
support for element-based mappings, which was supported in past versions of
WebWorks and is an essential feature if you use structured FrameMaker, seems
to be a long way off. If you do decide to use ePublisher Pro, you need to
base your EDD solely on paragraph and character formats, and not use EDD
context rules to "override" those formats.

> There is one downside to upgrading: While our desktop publishers will
> have WebWorks Publisher Pro, our authors will have only the WebWorks
> Standard v7 that is included with purchase of FrameMaker. We previously
> found that if we created templates in WWP Pro 2003, authors using WWP
> Standard 7 couldn't output HTML using those templates. (That's why we
> "downgraded" our WebWorks Pro licenses to version 7.) Having authors
> capable of outputting their own HTML is a luxury for us, but not an
> absolute need.

You don't necessarily need a WebWorks license for each user. We only have
two copies -- one is for the person who maintains our templates, and the
other is installed on a shared PC that is available to any writer. All our
builds are done on the shared PC. So you might be able to set up something
similar to that.

Regards,

Gary




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unavailable figures make Frame crash

[Jakob Fix]

Rick, Shlomo,

thanks for your replies.

On 25/01/06, Shlomo Perets  wrote:
> Jakob,
>
> You wrote:
>
> >we have the following problem on a couple of machines, with different
> >documents:
> >
> >If, on opening a file with missing figures, the user chooses to skip
> >this (and possibly all other figures), Frame crashes.
> >
> >Occurs on some machines, not all of them.  Frame is +SGML 5.5.6,
> >Windows is 2000 or XP.
> >
> >Any ideas why, and how to fix this?  Thanks in advance.
>
> There is a known problem with FM6.0 or earlier used on Windows, causing
> crashes related to missing graphics.
>
> A specific patch for FM6.0 is available for download from adobe.com:
> http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=1420
>
> There is a FM5.5.6 patch for this problem, offered by Systec.
> See http://www.systec-gmbh.com/en/sites/downloads_epub.htm -- "Patches and
> plug-ins", TOOLBOX plug-in for Adobe FrameMaker 5.5.6 under Windows XP
> (free download).
> I'm not sure whether the patch applies to FM+SGML 5.5.6 as well.
>
>
> Shlomo Perets

it turns out that the patch does work for +SGML 5.5.6 as well.  At
least, an additional menu entry shows up which simply (?) suppresses
the missing figures dialogue box.

thanks again for your responses.

--
cheers,
Jakob.

POLL RESULTS: Which method do you use to apply bold and italics?

[pearlrosenb...@nc.rr.com]

John,

Did any of the 35 who said they use the Character Catalog, especially 
the adamant ones, say why this method is preferred? (Sorry, I wasn't 
following the thread).

Thanks.
Pearl Rosenberg
TeleHealth Services



- Original Message -
From: John Wilcox 
Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:08 pm
Subject: POLL RESULTS: Which method do you use to apply bold and 
italics?
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: John Wilcox 
> > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:30 PM 
> 
> > This came up as a possible style standards issue here. 
> ... 
> > A. Click the B and I buttons, or press Ctrl+B and Ctrl+I. 
> > B. Select Bold and Emphasis from the Character Catalog. 
> 
> Of the 37 responses I got, 35 chose B or a variation thereof. 
> 
> Most of those 35 were so adamant that I doubt they will be 
> surprised at the 
> results, but I for one had no idea the vote would be so lop-sided. 
> 
> All of the variations mentioned involved creating and using use- 
> specificchar tags, such as BookTitle, VariableElement, NewTerm. 
> 
> Two people said that using WebWorks, the bold and italic 
> formatting would be 
> lost in the conversion, but I have not found this to be the case, 
> at least 
> in WWEP. 
> 
> Thanks to all who replied! As usual, the respondents comprise only 
> a tiny 
> fraction of the list membership, but I suppose they give a pretty 
good 
> snapshot of actual usage. 
> 
> 
> _ 
> Regards, 
> John Wilcox, Technical Writer 
> Zetron, Redmond 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___ 
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as pearlrosenberg at nc.rr.com. 
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com 
> or visit 
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40nc.rr.com 
> Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit 
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. 
> 

POLL RESULTS: Which method do you use to apply bold and italics?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Pearl,

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Jakob Fix]

Hello,

for some of my recent Frame problems, I received very useful
information through this mailing list.  I would like to add references
to these posts to our internal documentation, preferably just a URL
per post.  However, I'm not sure this is possible with the Lyris
mailing list software (and its blasted, slow archive).

Would it be a good idea to add this list to gmane.org?  From the site:

"This is what Gmane offers. Mailing lists are funneled into news
groups. This isn't a new idea; several mail-to-news gateways exist.
What's new with Gmane is that no messages are ever expired from the
server, and the gateway is bidirectional. You can post to some of
these mailing lists without being subscribed to them yourself,
depending on whether the mailing lists allow non-subscribers to post
or not.

"In addition, Gmane does spam detection, cross-post handling, has a
TMDA-fueled encryption/forwarding service, a web interface, respects
X-No-Archive, supplies RSS feeds, uses SPF, features user-defined
filters, gathers traffic statistics, and has a real-time indexing
search engine."

Obviously, email addresses are hidden from view and from harvesting. 
It's free. I have no relationship with gmane apart from being a very
satisfied user.

What do you think? Lisa?

--
cheers,
Jakob.

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

Jakob, not to be a party-pooper, but I'm not real hot on the idea of
my posts possibly making their way into someone's documentation.

> for some of my recent Frame problems, I received very useful
> information through this mailing list.  I would like to add
> references to these posts to our internal documentation,
> preferably just a URL per post.  However, I'm not sure this 
> is possible with the Lyris


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Jakob Fix]

John,

On 26/01/06, John Posada  wrote:
> Jakob, not to be a party-pooper, but I'm not real hot on the idea of
> my posts possibly making their way into someone's documentation.

ah, a misunderstanding: I intend to use these links just as references
for internal howto documents to be shared with colleagues, not as an
official documentation that will be distributed to clients, if that's
your concern.

--
cheers,
Jakob.

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

> ah, a misunderstanding: I intend to use these links 
> just as references for internal howto documents to be 
> shared with colleagues, not as an official documentation 
> that will be distributed to clients, if that's
> your concern.

Sorry, Jakob, there was no misunderstanding.

Why? you may have every intention of not making them public, but once
they are in documentation, anything can happen; somepone else
recycles what you create not knowing the restrictions, you leave and
someone takes over the stuff and doesn't know, it's just an issue I'd
rather not be involved with.



John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Niels Fanøe]

John wrote:
-> Why? you may have every intention of not making them public, 
-> but once they are in documentation, anything can happen; 
-> somepone else recycles what you create not knowing the 
-> restrictions, you leave and someone takes over the stuff and 
-> doesn't know, it's just an issue I'd rather not be involved with.

Would copying and pasting into internal documetation be any better? I don't 
think so.

-Niels 

-> -Original Message-
-> From: framers-bounces+nfa=maconomy.dk at lists.frameusers.com 
-> [mailto:framers-bounces+nfa=maconomy.dk at lists.frameusers.com]
->  On Behalf Of John Posada
-> Sent: 26. januar 2006 15:36
-> To: Jakob Fix; Framers List
-> Subject: Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?
-> 
-> > ah, a misunderstanding: I intend to use these links just 
-> as references 
-> > for internal howto documents to be shared with colleagues, 
-> not as an 
-> > official documentation that will be distributed to 
-> clients, if that's 
-> > your concern.
-> 
-> Sorry, Jakob, there was no misunderstanding.
-> 
-> Why? you may have every intention of not making them public, 
-> but once they are in documentation, anything can happen; 
-> somepone else recycles what you create not knowing the 
-> restrictions, you leave and someone takes over the stuff and 
-> doesn't know, it's just an issue I'd rather not be involved with.
-> 
-> 
-> 
-> John Posada
-> Senior Technical Writer
-> 
-> "So long and thanks for all the fish."
-> ___
-> 
-> 
-> You are currently subscribed to Framers as NFA at maconomy.dk.
-> 
-> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
-> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
-> or visit 
-> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/nfa%40maconomy.dk
-> 
-> Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit 
-> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
-> 

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

> Would copying and pasting into internal documetation 
> be any better?
> I don't think so.

Chances are that if the information is copied and pasted, not
everything ffrom the message is included...headers, sigs, and other
attributes would be stripped out. A URL includes everything.

I'm not going to justify why I don't like it. I just don't. I cannot
stop it if it happens and I don't know about it and if I'm the only
person that objects, I'm outvoted. I just said I don't like it.  


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Jakob Fix]

John,

On 26/01/06, John Posada  wrote:
> > ah, a misunderstanding: I intend to use these links
> > just as references for internal howto documents to be
> > shared with colleagues, not as an official documentation
> > that will be distributed to clients, if that's
> > your concern.
>
> Sorry, Jakob, there was no misunderstanding.

oops?

> Why? you may have every intention of not making them public, but once
> they are in documentation, anything can happen; somepone else
> recycles what you create not knowing the restrictions, you leave and
> someone takes over the stuff and doesn't know, it's just an issue I'd
> rather not be involved with.

So, in essence, it seems this has absolutely nothing to do with my
original request as to whether or not to add the mailing list to site
such as http://gmane.org/ ?

If I'd simply asked for "easy access to previous posts via a simple
one-URL-per-post scheme instead of a long and not always successful
search in the mailing list archive", you  would have agreed, or
wouldn't you?

Of course, even now I can cut and paste, or print, or "save as", or
even screen capture your contributions to this mailing list, whether
you like it or not.  But this is not my intention. I just want to be
able to do this (an extract of a Howto document):


"Further information
==
"The main download site for these utilities is here:
http://www.systec-gmbh.com/en/sites/downloads_epub.php

"Adobe acknowledges this problem for FrameMaker 6 and provides a
patch, but not for 5.5.6. Patch is available here:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=1420

"See the Framers mailing list, search for the thread titled
"unavailable figures make Frame crash"."



The last phrase I'd like to replace by a URL to the original post of 
this thread. That's all.

--
cheers,
Jakob.

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

> If I'd simply asked for "easy access to previous 
> posts via a simple one-URL-per-post scheme instead 
> of a long and not always successful
> search in the mailing list archive", you  would have 
> agreed, or wouldn't you?

If it means a direct URL to a post by non-members out of the control
of the list, no, I wouldn't.  

Jakob..I'm not going to break everything down to it's smallest
detail. I don't know gmane and it doesn't matter. I simply saw your
post and it made me uncomfortable. You can do what you want how you
want it. I'm just not giving it my blessing and I'm not spending any
more time debating it.
=

John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Art Campbell]

Jakob,

I believe, if you read the copyright notice on frameusers.com, you
will see that ownership of posts is retained by the author. And I
would submit that because the content of the site is copyrighted as a
body, that body-of-work further documents each posting as belonging to
the author.

I eagerly await your contract proposal for assigning rights (and the
subsequent royalty checks) for usage of my posts off the list, as I'm
sure most members do. ;- )

Cheers,
Art

On 1/26/06, Jakob Fix  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> for some of my recent Frame problems, I received very useful
> information through this mailing list.  I would like to add references
> to these posts to our internal documentation, preferably just a URL
> per post.  However, I'm not sure this is possible with the Lyris
> mailing list software (and its blasted, slow archive).
>
> Would it be a good idea to add this list to gmane.org?  From the site:
>
> "This is what Gmane offers. Mailing lists are funneled into news
> groups. This isn't a new idea; several mail-to-news gateways exist.
> What's new with Gmane is that no messages are ever expired from the
> server, and the gateway is bidirectional. You can post to some of
> these mailing lists without being subscribed to them yourself,
> depending on whether the mailing lists allow non-subscribers to post
> or not.
>
> "In addition, Gmane does spam detection, cross-post handling, has a
> TMDA-fueled encryption/forwarding service, a web interface, respects
> X-No-Archive, supplies RSS feeds, uses SPF, features user-defined
> filters, gathers traffic statistics, and has a real-time indexing
> search engine."
>
> Obviously, email addresses are hidden from view and from harvesting.
> It's free. I have no relationship with gmane apart from being a very
> satisfied user.
>
> What do you think? Lisa?
>
> --
> cheers,
> Jakob.


--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

batch convert to MIF

[Art Campbell]

If I were you, I'd ping Jeremy at Omsys, publishers of MIF2Go. If
anyone knows or
could do it, they'd be the guys...

Art

On 1/26/06, Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware)  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> would it be possible to write a (or use an existing) tool for saving FM files 
> (any version) as MIF without the need of the FrameMaker application to be 
> running?
>
> I know we can use DZbatcher or similar tools, but these require FrameMaker to 
> be available.
>
>
> Met vriendelijke groet / kind regards,
>
> Wim Hooghwinkel wimh at scriptware.nl
> DTP and XML Management
>
> Scriptware bv http://www.scriptware.nl
> tel : +31 (0)23 548 48 84
> fax : +31 (0)23 548 48 85
> http://www.scriptware.nl
> info at scriptware.nl info at scriptware.nl

--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Jakob Fix]

Sorry, just found out that Framers is archived publicly with exactly
what I need:

http://www.mail-archive.com/framers at lists.frameusers.com/

All is well now (except maybe for John P. :-))
--
cheers,
Jakob.

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Jakob Fix]

Art,

I know I should refrain from replying ... but ... can't ... must ... answer. :-)

On 26/01/06, Art Campbell  wrote:
> Jakob,
>
> I believe, if you read the copyright notice on frameusers.com, you
> will see that ownership of posts is retained by the author. And I
> would submit that because the content of the site is copyrighted as a
> body, that body-of-work further documents each posting as belonging to
> the author.

Let's see:

http://www.mail-archive.com/framers at lists.frameusers.com/msg00795.html

How much is this link worth?  And who does it belong to?  Rick?  The
Framers mailing list? The mail-archive.com people?  Just talking about
the link, mind you.

These are really interesting questions, and I won't think we will find
a satisfying answer ("42" anyone?), but I also think nobody will be
able to tell whether or not I put these links in an internal document
or not.  So I think I'm safe, for the moment :-).

--
cheers,
Jakob.

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

I'm so glad that the technical ability to do it has superceded the
wishes of people who are taking their time to help other list
members.

I'm sure I can find instructions and links on the web to crack
someone's IT enterprise. That must make it OK too.

--- Jakob Fix  wrote:

> Sorry, just found out that Framers is archived publicly with
> exactly what I need:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers at lists.frameusers.com/
> 
> All is well now (except maybe for John P. :-))


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Two Frame Issues

[Art Campbell]

Doug,

Although I don't recall a plug in (unless it's one of Microtype's
customization tools), I think if you follow the directions in
C:\Program 
Files\Adobe\FrameMaker7.0\OnlineManuals\Customizing_Frame_Products.pdf
that detail how to modify the menu config files, you can remove
whatever you want in a couple minutes.

***
If Notepad corrupts your files, I'd suggest not using Notepad.

Cheers,
Art


On 1/25/06, Doug  wrote:
> When I click the Format menu option in FrameMaker, the Font, Size, and
> Style options are available.  Obviously this can lead to applying
> format overrides.  I believe someone has created a plug-in that will
> disable and/or remove these options...can someone remind me what the
> name of it is?
>
> Also, sometimes when I use Notepad to edit my Maker.ini file, it
> becomes corrupted.  The EOL markers seem to vanish, the whole thing
> becomes a jumble, and Frame doesn't work properly until I restore an
> uncorrupted version of the file.  What's up with this/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>


--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Art Campbell]

I don't see anything in the archive site that implies that FM posts are not
still copyright by the author.

Art

On 1/26/06, Jakob Fix  wrote:
> Art,
>
> I know I should refrain from replying ... but ... can't ... must ... answer. 
> :-)
>
> On 26/01/06, Art Campbell  wrote:
> > Jakob,
> >
> > I believe, if you read the copyright notice on frameusers.com, you
> > will see that ownership of posts is retained by the author. And I
> > would submit that because the content of the site is copyrighted as a
> > body, that body-of-work further documents each posting as belonging to
> > the author.
>
> Let's see:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers at lists.frameusers.com/msg00795.html
>
> How much is this link worth?  And who does it belong to?  Rick?  The
> Framers mailing list? The mail-archive.com people?  Just talking about
> the link, mind you.
>
> These are really interesting questions, and I won't think we will find
> a satisfying answer ("42" anyone?), but I also think nobody will be
> able to tell whether or not I put these links in an internal document
> or not.  So I think I'm safe, for the moment :-).
>
> --
> cheers,
> Jakob.
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>


--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Fred Ridder]

I'm not a lawyer (and I don't play one on TV, either), but I don't see
how publication in any medium of a URL to an item in a publicly available
archive infringes on the original poster's copyright. It seems to me that
publishing a URL is analogous to publishing the ISBN number for a work
published in hard. All you are doing is facilitating someone's ability to
access the original work which is already publicly available.

If you want to carry the copyright thing to such an extreme, how
about forbidding the inclusion of any portion of the original posting
in all replies? That seems to be more of a rights violation to me than
publishing a URL to a public archive.

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel (particularly on intellectual 
property
  issues...)
Fred Ridder
Intel
Parsippany, NJ

>From: Art Campbell 
>To: Jakob Fix 
>CC: Framers List 
>Subject: Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?
>Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:43:53 -0500
>
>I don't see anything in the archive site that implies that FM posts are not
>still copyright by the author.
>
>Art
>

_
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

> a satisfying answer ("42" anyone?), but I also 
> think nobody will be able to tell whether or not 
>I put these links in an internal
> document or not.  So I think I'm safe, for the moment :-).

Wrong. more than once I've received real voice phone calls from
people who saw my name on a post, did some searching, and called me
up. The most recent one was about a thread on PageMaker viewers that
took place a couple of years ago. Or, I could get an email from
someone at your company asking for more information.

If that happens, I WILL be contacting your legal department on
copyright infringement and I HAVE retained the posts on this thread
as proof that I don't approve of my posts being used.

Of course, you could sneak around the wishes that anyone else may
have by remembering to just not use my post but ignore the wishes of
anyone else, whether they've participated in thread or not.

I don't think anyone else who practices copyright violation and gets
caught expected to get caught either.

John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

POLL RESULTS: Which method do you use to apply bold and italics?

[Harvey, JonX]

I can't think of a better reason than what the guide (via Rick)
says.

* Hi Pearl,

* From the FrameMaker "User Guide" page 93:

* "Applying formats from catalogs is the easiest way to change the look
of 
* text and to ensure that your documents are formatted consistently.
This 
* consistency simplifies making changes later as well as converting
documents 
* to other formats such as HTML."

* Rick Quatro
* Carmen Publishing
* 585-659-8267
* www.frameexpert.com


> John,
>
> Did any of the 35 who said they use the Character Catalog, especially
> the adamant ones, say why this method is preferred? (Sorry, I wasn't
> following the thread).
>
> Thanks.
> Pearl Rosenberg
> TeleHealth Services

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as jonx.harvey at intel.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jonx.harvey%40intel.
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Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Two Frame Issues

[Klaus Mueller]

Hello Doug,

> Format menu option in FrameMaker, the Font, Size, and Style options
> disable and/or remove these options

There's a free FrameScript RemoveFontMenu.fsl at
http://www.itl.de/html/englisch/consulting/fsl/itl-pool.html#misc
It removes the "Font" menu from the Format menu
and all context menus.

Kind regards,
Klaus M?ller, itl AG


--- Original Message ---
From: Doug
Date: 26.01.2006 00:14
> When I click the Format menu option in FrameMaker, the Font, Size, and
> Style options are available.  Obviously this can lead to applying
> format overrides.  I believe someone has created a plug-in that will
> disable and/or remove these options...can someone remind me what the
> name of it is?
> 
> Also, sometimes when I use Notepad to edit my Maker.ini file, it
> becomes corrupted.  The EOL markers seem to vanish, the whole thing
> becomes a jumble, and Frame doesn't work properly until I restore an
> uncorrupted version of the file.  What's up with this/
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug

Comparing WebWorks versions

[Michael Müller-Hillebrand]

Hello Eileen,

Just today I was asked by the IT coordinator of a client, why there is
an upgrade of the well-known FrameScript plug-in within just 10 months
after the last version. You know the rule: "Never change a running
system." Why do you want/need to upgrade at all? Are there any problems
with your current setup?

Some thoughts:

Since you are working with Sourcerer you seem to work with structured
documents: Webworks ePublisher (WWeP) does not support structured
documents at the moment.

Unless you want to redesign your WWP conversion templates from scratch
using WWP2003 wouldn't make a big difference compared to version 7,
because the inner workings (a.k.a. Webworks Macro Language) are the same.

WWP7 and WWP2003 share a technology which is in a kind-of end-of-life
phase -- nevertheless I have quite a lot of clients which benefit from
projects with WWP6, WWP7, or WWP2003 (remember: "Never change..."). WWeP
internally uses XML and XSL. You could do the same based on your
structured FM documents: Save the content as XML and use custom XSL
transformations to create HTML. In some situations it might be a better
idea to learn XSL (not simple, but a W3C standard!) instead of WebWorks
Macro Language (also not simple!).

Kind regards,

- Michael

On 26.01.2006 01:40, Anderson, Eileen schrieb/wrote:
> My team is using structured FrameMaker v7.1, Sourcerer v1.11, and
> WebWorks Publisher v7.0.6 to create single-source documents to output
> for different audiences and media (including print, PDF, and HTML).
> 
> Ideally, we'd like to upgrade to the latest version of all software,
> including FrameMaker v7.2 and WebWorks ePublisher Pro. However,
> Sourcerer (which we absolutely rely on) does not yet support FrameMaker
> v7.2.  So for now we'll stick with Frame v7.1.
> 
> Two of our team members are about to learn how to use WebWorks Publisher
> Pro to create and modify templates. (Current team members know only how
> to apply existing WWP templates.) However, at least one vendor I've
> consulted no longer offers training on WebWorks Publisher Pro version 7;
> it's simply too old. I'm wondering if we should upgrade to WebWorks
> Publisher Pro 2003 or WebWorks ePublisher Pro.
> 
> There is one downside to upgrading: While our desktop publishers will
> have WebWorks Publisher Pro, our authors will have only the WebWorks
> Standard v7 that is included with purchase of FrameMaker. We previously
> found that if we created templates in WWP Pro 2003, authors using WWP
> Standard 7 couldn't output HTML using those templates. (That's why we
> "downgraded" our WebWorks Pro licenses to version 7.) Having authors
> capable of outputting their own HTML is a luxury for us, but not an
> absolute need.
> 
> So, Framers, this is where I'd like to benefit from your experience and
> advice.
> 
> - Have you used WebWorks ePublisher Pro? Do you find it offers
> significant enhancements over prior versions of WebWorks Publisher Pro?
> Is it compatible with FrameMaker version 7.1?
> - Do you see a significant advantage in using WebWorks Publisher Pro
> 2003 as compared to WebWorks Publisher Pro version 7?
> - Do you have other thoughts on our situation or lessons learned from
> your experiences with different WebWorks Publisher versions?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - Eileen Anderson
> Manager of Curriculum Editing & Desktop Publishing
> T-Mobile Customer Care Learning & Development
> eileen.anderson at t-mobile.com

-- 
_
Michael M?ller-Hillebrand  http://cap-studio.de/
WebWorks Publisher Support & Info  http://wwp-support.info/
-
  Please make sure to send follow-up questions to the list.
  Contact me directly with business inquiries or comments.
-

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Joe Malin]

Dear Jakob,

I'm glad that you received useful information from the list. I have had
exactly the same experience. I applaud your thought of sharing this
bounty. However, using gmane.org, you can not do this fairly without
contacting each person who signed up to Framers and asking each of them
for permission to do it. If anyone refuses, you can not do it, period. I
think other list users would agree.

When anyone signs up for an e-mail list, they share information to that
list. By doing that, they accept the list's privacy policy. I don't see
a link to it on FrameUsers.com, but I'm sure one exists, if not in
writing then in the minds of the lists' administrators.

If you then put the e-mail list into any tool that exposes it beyond its
intended audience, you've violated the privacy policy.

I won't get into the legal aspects of this, since I'm sure another
respondent will (if it hasn't happened already).

Though your intentions are quite good, I am writing to remind you that
you can't control gmane.org. If you want to publicize framers list, then
publicize it and make individuals sign up for it. That forces them to
break the barrier of anonymity. That is the right, honorable, and decent
way to share information online.

I hope that you will consider it in this light and do the right thing.

Joe

Joe Malin
Technical Writer
(408)625-1623
jmalin at tuvox.com 
www.tuvox.com
The views expressed in this document are those of the sender, and do not
necessarily reflect those of TuVox, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+jmalin=tuvox@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+jmalin=tuvox.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf
Of Jakob Fix
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:14 AM
To: Framers List
Subject: add Framers list to gmane.org?

Hello,

for some of my recent Frame problems, I received very useful information
through this mailing list.  I would like to add references to these
posts to our internal documentation, preferably just a URL per post.
However, I'm not sure this is possible with the Lyris mailing list
software (and its blasted, slow archive).

MIF2Go Wash via MIF

[John Posada]

Hi, guys...I must have missed something. What IS this MIF washing,
anyway? What problem does it fix and what does it do?

John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Stuart Rogers]

John Posada wrote:
>I could get an email from
> someone at your company asking for more information.
> 
> If that happens, I WILL be contacting your legal department on
> copyright infringement and I HAVE retained the posts on this thread
> as proof that I don't approve of my posts being used.
> 
> Of course, you could sneak around the wishes that anyone else may
> have by remembering to just not use my post but ignore the wishes of
> anyone else, whether they've participated in thread or not.
> 
> I don't think anyone else who practices copyright violation and gets
> caught expected to get caught either.

John,

If you are of such strong opinion that simply publishing a URL (which is 
nothing more than an address) constitutes copyright violation, why did 
you ask us all to do it for you? ( http://tinyurl.com/8dn69 ) Do you 
also plan to threaten legal action against Google, Yahoo, and all the 
other search engines that publish links to your postings in response to 
keyword searches?

Or have you just missed Jakob's point altogether, that he is not 
reproducing a single word of your copyright-protected public postings 
but is simply telling others that they exist and pointing to their 
location?

I do not understand your reaction.

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers at phoenix-geophysics dot com

"Please reinstall the application you want to remove."
--Microsoft Windows 'unInstall Specialist'

Get Firefox!
http://tinyurl.com/8q9c5

MIF2Go Wash via MIF

[Art Campbell]

An automated version of the two-aspirin fix:
Save your problem FM file as MIF and open that file to see if the
problem-causing drek has been removed...

Art

On 1/26/06, John Posada  wrote:
> Hi, guys...I must have missed something. What IS this MIF washing,
> anyway? What problem does it fix and what does it do?
>
> John Posada
> Senior Technical Writer
>
> "So long and thanks for all the fish."
> ___


--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

Stuart...that is not even close to what I object to. Posting a fully
formed URL for easier use by list members within the approved list
community and posting a URL in a source I know nothing about, for use
by people I know nothing about, used in a way and context I know
nothing about are two completely different things. I assume you said
what you did to get a response, not because it made any sense.

> nothing more than an address) constitutes copyright 
> violation, why did 
> you ask us all to do it for you? ( http://tinyurl.com/8dn69 )

John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Grant Hogarth]

Joe just said what I was thinking -- and more articulately than I think
I might have been.  
Jakob's thought was good, but the implementation has risks that appear
not to have been thouroughly considered.
(No fault there; I suspect that we've all been in that position -- I
know that I certainly have!)

The fact that we are able to have this conversation shows a degree of
consideration and civility that is really refreshing.

Thanks! 

Grant
___
Grant Hogarth 
Equis International - A Reuters Company
ghogarth at Equis.com / Grant.Hogarth at Reuters.com 
Direct: (+1) 801.270.3180   Main Fax: 801.265.3999

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+grant.hogarth=reuters@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+grant.hogarth=reuters.com at lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Joe Malin
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:11 AM
To: Jakob Fix; Framers List
Subject: RE: add Framers list to gmane.org?

Dear Jakob,

I'm glad that you received useful information from the list. I have had
exactly the same experience. I applaud your thought of sharing this
bounty. However, using gmane.org, you can not do this fairly without
contacting each person who signed up to Framers and asking each of them
for permission to do it. If anyone refuses, you can not do it, period. I
think other list users would agree.

When anyone signs up for an e-mail list, they share information to that
list. By doing that, they accept the list's privacy policy. I don't see
a link to it on FrameUsers.com, but I'm sure one exists, if not in
writing then in the minds of the lists' administrators.

If you then put the e-mail list into any tool that exposes it beyond its
intended audience, you've violated the privacy policy.

I won't get into the legal aspects of this, since I'm sure another
respondent will (if it hasn't happened already).

Though your intentions are quite good, I am writing to remind you that
you can't control gmane.org. If you want to publicize framers list, then
publicize it and make individuals sign up for it. That forces them to
break the barrier of anonymity. That is the right, honorable, and decent
way to share information online.

I hope that you will consider it in this light and do the right thing.

Joe

Joe Malin

add Framers list to gmane.org?--Spam implications

[John Huntington]

Jakob Fix wrote:
> Sorry, just found out that Framers is archived publicly with exactly what I 
> need:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers at lists.frameusers.com/

And to get back to my point from yesterday, if you click on any of these 
links, the email is shown as "<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> " so that spammers 
can't get the address...

John

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

This is probably all true and just a small maybe its not. However,
I'll bet that Jakob's employers wouldn't want to be the subject of
finding out if it is or not and should his corporate attorney receive
correspondence from me, they'll going to make Jakob question how
important the information in that post really was. 

--- Mark Levitt  wrote:

> John,
> 
> It is highly unlikely you would have any success in suing for
> copyright
> infringement over an archive of a message you sent to a public
> mailing list. 


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[John Posada]

If it gets that far, it is only because the request that I made on
this forum was ignored.

Besides...that isn't extortion. That would be if I came out of
nowhere and threatened harm. I'd only be responding to what I
perceive as harm made first to me.

> > going to make Jakob question how important the information in 
> > that post really was. 
> 
> Yes, you can bully him into doing what you want by 
> threatening them with some sort of harm. That's usually 
> called extortion...


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

add Framers list to gmane.org?--Spam implications

[John Posada]

> And to get back to my point from yesterday, if you 
> click on any of these links, the email is shown as 
> "<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> " so that spammers can't get the 
> address...

I'm not concerned about spammers. I'm concerned about a solution or
process being proposed internally with me being attributed as part of
the solution, to find out that the solution was not exactly right for
that problem. I check and recheck my internal documentation to make
sure it is as accurate as I can make it and I stand behind it if
something goes wrong. Becoming part of a solution for a problems I
know nothing about and not being able to participate in making sure
it is accurate is something I'd like to avoid. 

Remember...the purpose of his using the posts was for internal
support documentation. Do you want your solutions to be the fixes to
problems that you know nothing about? Trust me...chances are you can
be contacted with blocked email addresses and all.

Give you an example. I "think" I know where Jakob Fix is from, gmail
address not withstanding. Almost anyone can be located with a name,
some text strings from a post, and the will to find out. 

John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]

[John Posada]

I do. 

I'm sure I can find issues that you feel are important, to be
trivial. However, I'll be refraining from from saying so because I
also believe that people are allowed to express their concerns even
if I'm not concerned about it.

John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]

[Art Campbell]

Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information
on the forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers
who get paid for words; if we choose to give some away in this or
other forumns, that's up to us. But they're still our words and we
want them to be under our control as much as possible.

I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and
presents the freely-given information to make a profit. Especially
without letting me/us know.

I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others
make a profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us
are that care free.

Cheers,
Art

On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden  wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> ~!@#$%^&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?



--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]

[Bernard Aschwanden]

I'm totally self employed and count on the list, the users and Framers across 
the planet to pay me for what I do. If they don't I can't pay the bills. This 
list is one way to promote myself. Again, if you don't want your words used by 
others, then don't post to the list. It's really not that tough. Instead of 
sending to, cc'ing to or bcc'ing to the list, just send to, cc or bcc the 
people with the question. Or don't offer your input.

Thanks by the way to the wide range of people who already pitched in to let me 
know "thanks for saying what we are thinking".

For the record, I post a lot to this group. So do a lot of people who make 
their living selling the same support and services we offer here for free. To 
say that we don't get paid for it isn't totally true. It's good press.

If you don't think that others should quote you it's really simple. Don't send 
to the list. Send to the individual. If your thoughts are worth that much, then 
hoard them and bottle it. Me, I post where and when I can and hope that the 
goodwill results in business. Generally it has.

I guess that mean that I don't have a problem accepting that others make a 
profit (and I lose money) by posting here. If you aren't that care free then 
stop sending answers and just post your questions.

Bernard





-Original Message-
From: Art Campbell [mailto:art.campb...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:51 PM
To: bernard at publishingsmarter.com
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]

Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information on the 
forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers who get paid 
for words; if we choose to give some away in this or other forumns, that's up 
to us. But they're still our words and we want them to be under our control as 
much as possible.

I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and presents the 
freely-given information to make a profit. Especially without letting me/us 
know.

I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others make a 
profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us are that care free.

Cheers,
Art

On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden  wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> ~!@#$%^&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?



--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]

[Bernard Aschwanden]

Agreed. Freely given. Hence, if you get a penny it's a huge return on the 
investment.

Besides, if people stay from others on a list like this it's pretty quickly 
known. There are several people on the list that I don't bother to reply to 
because off list others have mentioned issue that develop. By and large I trust 
to the 'good' in people and let it be at that.

B


-Original Message-
From: Art Campbell [mailto:art.campb...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:51 PM
To: bernard at publishingsmarter.com
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]

Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information on the 
forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers who get paid 
for words; if we choose to give some away in this or other forumns, that's up 
to us. But they're still our words and we want them to be under our control as 
much as possible.

I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and presents the 
freely-given information to make a profit. Especially without letting me/us 
know.

I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others make a 
profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us are that care free.

Cheers,
Art

On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden  wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> ~!@#$%^&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?



--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

MIF2Go Wash via MIF

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:28:32 -0800 (PST), John Posada 
 wrote:

>Hi, guys...I must have missed something. What IS this MIF washing,
>anyway? What problem does it fix and what does it do?

We didn't invent this, just made it a lot easier to do, as
a public service (since you don't have to buy Mif2Go to
use the feature, just download the demo).

The process is to save .fm files as .mif, then re-open
the .mif and re-save as .fm over the original.  Why?
Well, the .fm format is binary with lots of linked lists,
and sometimes it loses something it needs, perhaps as a
result of an optimization of some sort.  This results
in the file not behaving as documented.  Something may
disappear, or display very strangely.  Often, but not
always, saving as MIF, an ASCII format, produces a
cleaned-up version of the doc; when you reload it, the
original problem is gone.  This is frequent enough that
it pays to try it first, rather than rekeying the file, 
or trying to find the exact trouble spot and fix it.

Doing the SaveAs, close, reopen is a bit of a PITA,
especially if you want to do it to a big book.  We
got tired of doing it ourselves, so we added it to
Mif2Go as "Wash via MIF".  ;-)

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
http://www.omsys.com/

cross-reference problem

[Janice Cadel]

We are using unstructured FM 7.0. Our book contains several chapters. The
files were moved from one location to another location. When the writer
opened up the book, he received an "unresolved cross-reference" message. He
did a Search on the unresolved-cross references and re-submitted the
cross-references. He was able to generate the book, but the next time he
opened the book, he received the "unresolved cross-reference" message
again. It was the same cross-references. He corrected them again, and the
whole cycle repeated itself. Does anyone have an idea of why this keeps
happening and how we can resolve it?






---
Janice Cadel
Principal Technical Writer/Editor
Hughes Network Systems, LLC
11717 Exploration Lane
Germantown, MD  20876
301-601-7434
fax: 301-428-2801
---

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Harvey, JonX]

Your intent is to post information or a link to that information that
you know is protected, without consent from the owner. You ask how much
the link is worth. How much is a clear conscience worth or your
reputation with the folks on this list?

> How much is this link worth?  And who does it belong to?  Rick?  The
> Framers mailing list? The mail-archive.com people?  Just talking about
> the link, mind you.
>
> These are really interesting questions, and I won't think we will find
> a satisfying answer ("42" anyone?), but I also think nobody will be
> able to tell whether or not I put these links in an internal document
> or not.  So I think I'm safe, for the moment :-).
>
> --
> cheers,
> Jakob.
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail
.com
>
> Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>


--
Art Campbell
art.campbell at gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as jonx.harvey at intel.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
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Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
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add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Larsen, Seraphim L]

Wouldn't the issue be with mail-archive.com, not with anyone who happens
to publish a URL pointing to mail-archive.com.  If mail-archive.com is
archiving posts and making them public without the permission of the
Framers list owners, then they are the ones in violation of copyright.
Someone posting a URL is not in violation of copyright.


Regards,
Seraphim
___ 
Seraphim Larsen   CIG Operations / TPPE 
Senior Technical Writer   Intel Corporation 
(480) 552-6504 Chandler, AZ 
The content of this message is my personal opinion only. 
Although I am an employee of Intel, the statements I make 
here in no way represent Intel's position on the issue, nor 
am I authorized to speak on behalf of Intel on this matter. 
___ 



-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+theorem37=gmail@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+theorem37=gmail.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Art Campbell
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:44 AM
To: Jakob Fix
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?

I don't see anything in the archive site that implies that FM posts are
not
still copyright by the author.

Art

On 1/26/06, Jakob Fix  wrote:
> Art,
>
> I know I should refrain from replying ... but ... can't ... must ...
answer. :-)
>
> On 26/01/06, Art Campbell  wrote:
> > Jakob,
> >
> > I believe, if you read the copyright notice on frameusers.com, you
> > will see that ownership of posts is retained by the author. And I
> > would submit that because the content of the site is copyrighted as
a
> > body, that body-of-work further documents each posting as belonging
to
> > the author.
>
> Let's see:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers at lists.frameusers.com/msg00795.html
>
> How much is this link worth?  And who does it belong to?  Rick?  The
> Framers mailing list? The mail-archive.com people?  Just talking about
> the link, mind you.
>
> These are really interesting questions, and I won't think we will find
> a satisfying answer ("42" anyone?), but I also think nobody will be
> able to tell whether or not I put these links in an internal document
> or not.  So I think I'm safe, for the moment :-).
>
> --
> cheers,
> Jakob.
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail
.com
>
> Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>


--
Art Campbell
art.campbell at gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as theorem37 at gmail.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
or visit
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m

Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Gerald Robertson]

I agree with John P.

add Framers list to gmane.org?--Spam implications

[Bill Briggs]

At 11:00 AM -0800 1/26/06, John Posada wrote:
> > And to get back to my point from yesterday, if you
>> click on any of these links, the email is shown as
>> "<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> " so that spammers can't get the
>> address...
>
>I'm not concerned about spammers. I'm concerned about a solution or
>process being proposed internally with me being attributed as part of
>the solution, to find out that the solution was not exactly right for
>that problem. I check and recheck my internal documentation to make
>sure it is as accurate as I can make it and I stand behind it if
>something goes wrong. Becoming part of a solution for a problems I
>know nothing about and not being able to participate in making sure
>it is accurate is something I'd like to avoid

 Wow! I just can't relate to this perspective. Is this what living in a 
litigation-obsessed country does to one?



>Remember...the purpose of his using the posts was for internal
>support documentation. Do you want your solutions to be the fixes to
>problems that you know nothing about? Trust me...chances are you can
>be contacted with blocked email addresses and all.
>
>Give you an example. I "think" I know where Jakob Fix is from, gmail
>address not withstanding. Almost anyone can be located with a name,
>some text strings from a post, and the will to find out.

 The NSA is reading your mail and listening to your phone calls; Google, Yahoo 
and the like are building a profile on you. Is there anything of your privacy 
left to protect?

- web

Spam from India?

[Nandini G]

I belong to the TWI (Technical Writers of India)
group. Recently the moderator deplored that some spam
came from the members, only to get reports from the
members that their names and email addresses were used
unkown to them for spamming. 

I can't say whether this is a case of assumed name/id.
It would be a good idea to scramble our email
addresses or cut off the last portion so that we do
not become victims of spam.

Also, a random message to the group from the moderator
announcing not to advertise services to the group
would help. Alas, not everyone knows netiquette.

If the messages continue, we have the phone number :)
Who do you call? Spambusters!

Nandini



__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Mark Levitt]

John,

It is highly unlikely you would have any success in suing for copyright
infringement over an archive of a message you sent to a public mailing
list. 

As the author of a text, you have certain rights regarding control over
who can make copies, transcribe, etc.

However copyright is not an absolute. There are circumstances in which
someone can copy a text without the permission of the rights holder. At
a glance, the two I can think of off the top of my head are fair
use/fair dealing and implied license.

First, people have a right to use a text under the fair use doctrine.
There is no hard and fast rule over what constitutes fair use, but
making an archival copy for providing access to others seems to fall
within fair use. Google just won a case where they were being sued for
copyright infringement over their archiving of web pages. They are a
commercial company, they were archiving and displaying the entire page,
not just a portion, and they still won on fair use grounds.

Second, if you publish a text on a website, you retain the copyright,
but when a person (in the use of a browser) requests that text and your
web site sends it to them, you are, legally, granting an implied license
to that person to make a copy of the text in order to display it on
their screen (as making a copy is the only way for the browser to
function). Similarly this is public mailing list. When you send a text
to the mailing list, you are implicitly commanding that the text be
copied and distributed to everyone on the list. Those copies are further
copied into individual mailboxes, backup tapes, archives, etc. There is,
along with that command, an implied licence for those copies to be made.
Otherwise, you could send an e-mail to the list and then sue the list
owner for copyright infringement for every copy of your message that was
sent out.

In short, RIAA and MPAA propaganda to the contrary, you as copyright
holder don't have an absolute say over what happens to your text.

All that being said, I'm not making a moral or ethical argument about
this. I agree it might be good to respect the *wishes* of the list
members about where their e-mails are archived, but that's not the same
thing as having a *right* to prevent it. 

http://www.eff.org/IP/blake_v_google/google_nevada_order.pdf


--
Mark


> -Original Message-
> From: 
> framers-bounces+mark.levitt=betfair.com at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces+mark.levitt=betfair.com at lists.frameuse
> rs.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Rogers
> Sent: 26 January 2006 17:43
> To: John Posada
> Cc: Framers List
> Subject: Re: add Framers list to gmane.org?
> 
> John Posada wrote:
> >I could get an email from
> > someone at your company asking for more information.
> > 
> > If that happens, I WILL be contacting your legal department on 
> > copyright infringement and I HAVE retained the posts on 
> this thread as 
> > proof that I don't approve of my posts being used.
> > 
> > Of course, you could sneak around the wishes that anyone 
> else may have 
> > by remembering to just not use my post but ignore the 
> wishes of anyone 
> > else, whether they've participated in thread or not.
> > 
> > I don't think anyone else who practices copyright violation 
> and gets 
> > caught expected to get caught either.
> 
> John,
> 
> If you are of such strong opinion that simply publishing a 
> URL (which is nothing more than an address) constitutes 
> copyright violation, why did you ask us all to do it for you? 
> ( http://tinyurl.com/8dn69 ) Do you also plan to threaten 
> legal action against Google, Yahoo, and all the other search 
> engines that publish links to your postings in response to 
> keyword searches?
> 
> Or have you just missed Jakob's point altogether, that he is 
> not reproducing a single word of your copyright-protected 
> public postings but is simply telling others that they exist 
> and pointing to their location?
> 
> I do not understand your reaction.
> 
> --
> Stuart Rogers
> Technical Communicator
> Phoenix Geophysics Limited
> Toronto, ON, Canada
> +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325
> 
> srogers at phoenix-geophysics dot com
> 
> "Please reinstall the application you want to remove."
> --Microsoft Windows 'unInstall Specialist'
> 
> Get Firefox!
> http://tinyurl.com/8q9c5
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as mark.levitt at betfair.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mark.levit
> t%40betfair.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 
> __
> __
> In order to protect our email recipients, Betfair use SkyScan from 
> MessageLabs to scan all Incoming and Outgoing mail for viruses.
> 
> 

add Framers list to gmane.org?

[Mark Levitt]

> From: John Posada [mailto:jposada01 at yahoo.com] 
> This is probably all true and just a small maybe its not. 
> However, I'll bet that Jakob's employers wouldn't want to be 
> the subject of finding out if it is or not and should his 
> corporate attorney receive correspondence from me, they'll 
> going to make Jakob question how important the information in 
> that post really was. 

Yes, you can bully him into doing what you want by threatening them with
some sort of harm. That's usually called extortion...