Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Kristen, I'm not sure what you are making reference to, but I've personally never been in favor of automated editors/development tools. So I'm not quite sure where you got that idea from. If you are talking about my Genesis 3D Engine it is not an automated editor/development tool. It is a series of static libraries that get compiled into a C++ game project to provide low-level support for things like audio, speech, game input, as well as base classes for creating common object types such as people, places, and things in the game world. It all requires a fair amount of coding and a fairly extensive amount of C/C++ to use. What the engine does for me is cuts down the amount of coding I have to rewrite again and again by precompiling the core functions and wrapper classes into class libraries that can just be plugged in and used immediately as is. That is not automation, but just a moduler design where I can reuse some of the same code over and over again without modification. Now, what I may do in the future is something like BGT where I compile it into a toolkit which allows you, the end user, to code things using a scripting language. Again, though, that wouldn't be automated but just make it easier to program by using a scripting language like Python instead of full blown C++. Make sense? HTH On 10/10/11, Kristen Eisenberg kristen.eisenb...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Thomas, I don't think the community needs an automated game tool editor. Such an idea is very appealing at first sight, but as Philip rightly pointed out, there is no way to perform extensive tasks on it. I think what is much more needed is actually further extensive tutorials on gaming, since it's one thing knowing how the functions in BGT and other scriptable engines work, like I do, but it's another converting and conceptualising an idea to code. Mapping, object creation, level building and artificial intelligence are four of my worst enemies when it comes to coding games, since I am having to work purely off experimentation, only to find it is having to get deleted for the simple reason that I have broken not only my experiments, but also what once valid and working code as well, since all of the objects and functions need to be able to interact with one another. I have lots of ideas for extremely complicated games, and other than the sky-high budget that would be required to buy actors, sounds and music, I wouldn't know where to start with such advanced concepts. Even though I have had various talks with others about it, I still can't get them to sink in and actually put it down as fully working code. Regards, Kristen Eisenberg Billige Flüge Marketing GmbH Emanuelstr. 3, 10317 Berlin Deutschland Telefon: +49 (33) 5310967 Email: utebachmeier at gmail.com Site: http://flug.airego.de - Billige Flüge vergleichen --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Thomas, I don't think the community needs an automated game tool editor. Such an idea is very appealing at first sight, but as Philip rightly pointed out, there is no way to perform extensive tasks on it. I think what is much more needed is actually further extensive tutorials on gaming, since it's one thing knowing how the functions in BGT and other scriptable engines work, like I do, but it's another converting and conceptualising an idea to code. Mapping, object creation, level building and artificial intelligence are four of my worst enemies when it comes to coding games, since I am having to work purely off experimentation, only to find it is having to get deleted for the simple reason that I have broken not only my experiments, but also what once valid and working code as well, since all of the objects and functions need to be able to interact with one another. I have lots of ideas for extremely complicated games, and other than the sky-high budget that would be required to buy actors, sounds and music, I wouldn't know where to start with such advanced concepts. Even though I have had various talks with others about it, I still can't get them to sink in and actually put it down as fully working code. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 4:11 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi everyone, Over the last couple of weeks or so there has been ample discussion of various audio game creation tools such as BGT, Ken recently mentioned the GMA Engine and Audio Game Maker, and one issue that keeps coming up is that there are a few people interested in creating games but they don't want to learn how to program or script the games from scratch. In other words what I think some people want is a tool similar too Audio Game Maker where you essentually have an empty form and you can drag and drop various objects such as enemies, walls, doors, and special items onto the form and create games through some automated method. While this is obviously somewhat limited compared to BGT this type of game creation tool would be much easier to use for some people. All of this brings me back to AGM, and what it was intended to do. In concept the Audio Game Maker is a decent idea. The problem with AGM was is that it was poorly documented, it was never fully completed, had various bugs, and the developers abandoned it as soon as it was released. This of course didn't make AGM a very good tool for game development, but it was a nice idea in concept. Which brings me to my point. I've been thinking for quite some time of creating such a game development tool. Since I have written my own game engine, Genesis 3D, I could build a user interface similar to AGM where you essentually drag and drop various objects onto a form, select a menu key, and set properties on that object. In a way it would be similar to development tools like Microsoft's Visual Basic or Visual C# where you bring up a toolbox, select an object from a menu, and drop the object on your form. Then, you would access the object's properties menu, set properties, and that's all you have to really do. No scripting or programming involved. Of course, in order to create such a time consuming project I'd like to create it as a comercial product. By releasing it as a comercial product it would have lots of end user documentation, technical support, upgrades, and hopefully be what AGM was not. However, before I really take something like this too seriously I'd like to know if anyone is really interested in such a game creation tool or if it is just talk. If so i'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Oh, my God, Tom! Please, please, please consider doing this! I'd buy it! Programming is something I don't know how people do. I am truely astounded at how much work is involved, and I don't think I could figure it out too well. However, programming must have some logic to it--it's a system, after all, and I love systems. But this would get me started. I've always wanted to create some audio games! Something kinda like Super Mario World--well, not exactly--it's copywritten, after all, but something similar. Hmmm, wonder if the sounds/music is copywritten? Probably--who am I kidding? Anyhow, I've always wanted to do something like this! Thanks, Ari On 1/31/11, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jacob, Hey, that's all I want to know. I'd much rather have an honest opinion saying you don't like the idea rather than spending months creating a piece of software that no one has any interest in buying. If and when I ever go commercial with the Genesis 3D engine I need to know what people are looking for. My personal opinion right now is to add scripting so that it can be scripted like BGT. However, there are some, maybe not many, who are reluctant to learn a scripting language like Lua, Angelscript, etc and build games that way. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote: It's a very nice idea, but, to be honest, would really depend on pricing etc. since I, from my side, definitely wouldn't be using it professionally, and unless I could pay you the same amount, but in ZAR...it would most likely not be something I would be prepared to spend too much money on - sorry, but just being honest...smile Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
I took a look at the BGT manual and went, yikes! I got about 4-5 paragraphs into it and got confused. I sat for a while, trying to figure things out, and got even more confused. Maybe I'll give it another shot, though. I can see the point made earlier that this interface idea Tom is toying around with wouldn't allow for too much configuration. On 2/1/11, Arianna Sepulveda englishride...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, my God, Tom! Please, please, please consider doing this! I'd buy it! Programming is something I don't know how people do. I am truely astounded at how much work is involved, and I don't think I could figure it out too well. However, programming must have some logic to it--it's a system, after all, and I love systems. But this would get me started. I've always wanted to create some audio games! Something kinda like Super Mario World--well, not exactly--it's copywritten, after all, but something similar. Hmmm, wonder if the sounds/music is copywritten? Probably--who am I kidding? Anyhow, I've always wanted to do something like this! Thanks, Ari On 1/31/11, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jacob, Hey, that's all I want to know. I'd much rather have an honest opinion saying you don't like the idea rather than spending months creating a piece of software that no one has any interest in buying. If and when I ever go commercial with the Genesis 3D engine I need to know what people are looking for. My personal opinion right now is to add scripting so that it can be scripted like BGT. However, there are some, maybe not many, who are reluctant to learn a scripting language like Lua, Angelscript, etc and build games that way. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote: It's a very nice idea, but, to be honest, would really depend on pricing etc. since I, from my side, definitely wouldn't be using it professionally, and unless I could pay you the same amount, but in ZAR...it would most likely not be something I would be prepared to spend too much money on - sorry, but just being honest...smile Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Cool. Another side of it, is I'd actually prefer to just use/plug-in the DLL as such, but that's my viewpoint since it would suit me better, but anyway...LOL! Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Jacob, Hey, that's all I want to know. I'd much rather have an honest opinion saying you don't like the idea rather than spending months creating a piece of software that no one has any interest in buying. If and when I ever go commercial with the Genesis 3D engine I need to know what people are looking for. My personal opinion right now is to add scripting so that it can be scripted like BGT. However, there are some, maybe not many, who are reluctant to learn a scripting language like Lua, Angelscript, etc and build games that way. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote: It's a very nice idea, but, to be honest, would really depend on pricing etc. since I, from my side, definitely wouldn't be using it professionally, and unless I could pay you the same amount, but in ZAR...it would most likely not be something I would be prepared to spend too much money on - sorry, but just being honest...smile Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
exactly though I have done programming before maybe you could have coman actions and modules you could drop in to the program true you could include those but it would be nifty. Then any modules you saved you could just drop in. At 06:33 p.m. 1/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Philip, Yeah, I know. That's why when I created the Genesis 3D engine I compiled it as an dll library. My thinking was that someone would like to use a programming language that they know be it C++, C# .net, Visual Basic .net, and just include the g3d.dll file in a project, initialize the classes, and away they go. It gives someone the ccore functionality for input, audio, speech, networking, whatever without having to reinvent the wheel so to speak.At the same time since it isn't bound to any specific language or wysiwyg editor a developer is free to create games in his/her own way. Unfortunately, there is a few, not many, but a few people who want a fully automated system, some sort of wysiwyg editor, that just does everything for them. Instead of taking the time to learn how to program or script that game they want a simple tool to do this for them. However, as you pointed out there is really no way this can be done without having x number of games that are virtually identical to each other. Oh, the sounds might be different, levels might be different, but game play and so on will be fairly identical from game to game. This was one of the major short-comings of Audio Game Maker. You had no way to modify the enemy A.I. or anyway to extend the functionality of any specific game object. It is a classic case of what you see is what you get. For myself personally I think what you are doing is the right thing. It is possible once I get MOTA and Raceway out the door I'll modify the engine to use a scripting language like Lua, Angelscript, or something like that so I can just script the games instead of using a language like C++ to build games. However, that is down the road. Smile. On 1/31/11, Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com wrote: Hi Thomas, This was actually what I invisioned for BGT in its very early stages of development. However I quickly realized how close to impossible such a task is to complete successfully. Sure you can make a few templates with objects, behaviors and other things that the player can customize, but how much further can you go? You can drag and drop controls on to a window form, but how these controls behave is entirely up to the programmer in the end whether it is vb.net, C# and so on. Similarly you may be able to select how many sound sources should be in an environment, how many levels should be available and a few other things, but how much more can you really do in game development with a wysiwyg editor? The risk is that most games will become very generic, easy to recognize as being yet another construction from the same template, and the end results would get down-right boring. Giving the user greatly simplified tools to accomplish the task is one thing, holding their hand all the way and attempting to let them run without moving is another. A lot of people have suggested the same as Ken, that one could make a wysiwyg front-end that could complement the scripting, but I don't really buy this idea either. If you use the wysiwyg, it would generate code for you. In order to be interesting this code would most likely have to be fairly involved in places, and we all know that it is very hard to go in and modify someone elses code. Writing your own is often much easier, and in order to be able to modify things in the first place you will need to learn the language and the API which brings us right back to square 1. Just my two cents. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Tom, If G3d works as dll file, and could be used with VB.net, I think it could be very competitive as a game-making engine. (I guess like I said on the list earlier, I'm a die-hard VB fan, but it's what I know.) I'm not saying I won't try BGT, but C style languages really aren't my cup of C--I mean tea. Maybe it's just a have to get used to thing, maybe it's just that I've worked with quake C. I won't say I wouldn't use BGT, but the G3d engine sounds awesome--the best of both worlds as it were. You have the tool to help you, yet you get to program in your favorite language. Resistant to learning a new language--does this mean I'm getting old? NAH! Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Philip, Yeah, I know. That's why when I created the Genesis 3D engine I compiled it as an dll library. My thinking was that someone would like to use a programming language that they know be it C++, C# .net, Visual Basic .net, and just include the g3d.dll file in a project, initialize the classes, and away they go. It gives someone the ccore functionality for input, audio, speech, networking, whatever without having to reinvent the wheel so to speak.At the same time since it isn't bound to any specific language or wysiwyg editor a developer is free to create games in his/her own way. Unfortunately, there is a few, not many, but a few people who want a fully automated system, some sort of wysiwyg editor, that just does everything for them. Instead of taking the time to learn how to program or script that game they want a simple tool to do this for them. However, as you pointed out there is really no way this can be done without having x number of games that are virtually identical to each other. Oh, the sounds might be different, levels might be different, but game play and so on will be fairly identical from game to game. This was one of the major short-comings of Audio Game Maker. You had no way to modify the enemy A.I. or anyway to extend the functionality of any specific game object. It is a classic case of what you see is what you get. For myself personally I think what you are doing is the right thing. It is possible once I get MOTA and Raceway out the door I'll modify the engine to use a scripting language like Lua, Angelscript, or something like that so I can just script the games instead of using a language like C++ to build games. However, that is down the road. Smile. On 1/31/11, Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com wrote: Hi Thomas, This was actually what I invisioned for BGT in its very early stages of development. However I quickly realized how close to impossible such a task is to complete successfully. Sure you can make a few templates with objects, behaviors and other things that the player can customize, but how much further can you go? You can drag and drop controls on to a window form, but how these controls behave is entirely up to the programmer in the end whether it is vb.net, C# and so on. Similarly you may be able to select how many sound sources should be in an environment, how many levels should be available and a few other things, but how much more can you really do in game development with a wysiwyg editor? The risk is that most games will become very generic, easy to recognize as being yet another construction from the same template, and the end results would get down-right boring. Giving the user greatly simplified tools to accomplish the task is one thing, holding their hand all the way and attempting to let them run without moving is another. A lot of people have suggested the same as Ken, that one could make a wysiwyg front-end that could complement the scripting, but I don't really buy this idea either. If you use the wysiwyg, it would generate code for you. In order to be interesting this code would most likely have to be fairly involved in places, and we all know that it is very hard to go in and modify someone elses code. Writing your own is often much easier, and in order to be able to modify things in the first place you will need to learn the language and the API which brings us right back to square 1. Just my two cents. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Thomas, I like your idea but in one specific area. It would allow game players to add new levels to existing USA games such as David did with Lone Wolf. I would enjoy adding new levels to MOTA or new tracks to Raceway. One thing that the LW level generator does not allow is user supplied sounds. So if you like this idea, then there should be a way of adding new sounds and creatures. Phil - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:11 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi everyone, Over the last couple of weeks or so there has been ample discussion of various audio game creation tools such as BGT, Ken recently mentioned the GMA Engine and Audio Game Maker, and one issue that keeps coming up is that there are a few people interested in creating games but they don't want to learn how to program or script the games from scratch. In other words what I think some people want is a tool similar too Audio Game Maker where you essentually have an empty form and you can drag and drop various objects such as enemies, walls, doors, and special items onto the form and create games through some automated method. While this is obviously somewhat limited compared to BGT this type of game creation tool would be much easier to use for some people. All of this brings me back to AGM, and what it was intended to do. In concept the Audio Game Maker is a decent idea. The problem with AGM was is that it was poorly documented, it was never fully completed, had various bugs, and the developers abandoned it as soon as it was released. This of course didn't make AGM a very good tool for game development, but it was a nice idea in concept. Which brings me to my point. I've been thinking for quite some time of creating such a game development tool. Since I have written my own game engine, Genesis 3D, I could build a user interface similar to AGM where you essentually drag and drop various objects onto a form, select a menu key, and set properties on that object. In a way it would be similar to development tools like Microsoft's Visual Basic or Visual C# where you bring up a toolbox, select an object from a menu, and drop the object on your form. Then, you would access the object's properties menu, set properties, and that's all you have to really do. No scripting or programming involved. Of course, in order to create such a time consuming project I'd like to create it as a comercial product. By releasing it as a comercial product it would have lots of end user documentation, technical support, upgrades, and hopefully be what AGM was not. However, before I really take something like this too seriously I'd like to know if anyone is really interested in such a game creation tool or if it is just talk. If so i'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3414 - Release Date: 01/31/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Phil, Well, to be honest I have mixed feelings about that subject. I do certainly understand the desire to have level editors, but at the same time I want the games to be created the way I invisioned it rather than have someone else add his or her ideas to it and completely change the nature of the game. For example, over the course of developing Mysteries of the Ancients I've seen all kinds of rediculous ideas. Several of them asking to add this or that creature from Harry Potter, and they aren't necessarily Greek in origen. Understandably I'd be upset, to say the least, if there were a bunch of Harry Potter mods floating around as that would totally kill the game for me. Mysteries of the Ancients is to be a spin off from Tomb Raider not Harry Potter or anything else. So people would have to stick to that storyline, but if you give them a level editor there is no saying that is what they will do. On the other hand games that have level editors etc have become quite popular with the public. One such game, Doom, was hugely successful because of the wad creation tools for the game. Back in the early to mid 90's there were several custom wads for Doom including a Terminator wad pack, Star Wars wad pack, etc and it really allowed gamers like you and I to create our own games using the Doom engine. As a end user I thought it was cool. However, now that I'm a game developer myself my feelings have changed about allowing end users the right to create there own custom game levels with an existing game. For one thing any game I personally create is something of a work of art as Geremy pointed out in another thread. So when people change the game I labored to write, create a certain way, I'm a bit offended as they are in effect saying they don't like the game I spent countless hours, days, weeks, etc working on. They want something else, and are just using my game to build some other game they want. On 2/1/11, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I like your idea but in one specific area. It would allow game players to add new levels to existing USA games such as David did with Lone Wolf. I would enjoy adding new levels to MOTA or new tracks to Raceway. One thing that the LW level generator does not allow is user supplied sounds. So if you like this idea, then there should be a way of adding new sounds and creatures. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Thomas (and all), You're absolutely right about the problems with the AGM-project you describe. I applaud your persuit for the development of a new audio game creation tool. I'd really like to see more tools because I want to have more audio games (I follow all threads about tools on this list silently but with great interest :-) I learned many things from the AGM project (such as dealing with time restrictions, burned-down offices, ambitious interns, etc. :-) but what is probably most useful to share is more about the design of generic game design tools: I've always thought that if I were to do the AGM-project again, that I would *first* constrain myself to a game design tool for one specific game genre. So for instance a tool for an audio race game, or a tool for an audio platform game, etc. Initially we had considered this option, but we abandoned it because we thought of the idea too much as mere level editors (with which one could not design a innovative/original game with) and because we thought there would be so much overlap between the level editors (score systems, enemies, etc.) that we could pull off a generic game design tool with a little bit more effort. In the end we found that the generic approach made it a whole lot harder to even make a very simple racing game, or a simple shooter game. With a lot more time (let's say 1,5 years) we could have probably managed to make a decent working generic version, with a better user interface (even though this one was supposed to be as simple as possible, it is still quite complex when you start). But I think that we probably would have added templates for certain game genres anyway - just to make the design more simple. I think that if you start with an audio game design tool for one specific genre (let's say a shooter or a racer or a board game), that that in itsself is already a big enough challenge. Most likely something like an Audio Race Game Maker will feature an incredible amount of variables and functionalities. This not only means that an Audio Race Game Maker is a big thing to develop, but when you achieve it, you have probably learned a great deal about how to create a more generic game development tool as well. I think that you might find that even with a single-genre tool many people will create a whole range of fun racing games and will very soon try to use it for stuff other than racing games. Then gradually you can add a new feature (open terrain instead of a fixed track, or damage variable, so that vehicles can get damaged), and another one (pickups, or a weapon to shoot another car) and quite soon people will exchange the car engine sound for footsteps and you have the initials of a basic FPS. And you can have it grow from there on. On a side note: this is actually how our project Extant (http://creativehero.es/Extant) is now slowly changing from a first-person shooter environment into an environment (in Unity) which allows us to create multiple types of games because we got all types of building blocks that work together: moving around a 3D space (x,y,z), different avatars (person, vehicle, etc.), enemies, shooting, pickups, buildings, etc. So my point is: start small, try not to create a generic tool for all game genres, but start with a tool for a single genre and build it out from there. Maybe first build three single genre tools and then make a generic version out of the three of them. Best regards, Richard http://audiogames.net - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:11 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi everyone, Over the last couple of weeks or so there has been ample discussion of various audio game creation tools such as BGT, Ken recently mentioned the GMA Engine and Audio Game Maker, and one issue that keeps coming up is that there are a few people interested in creating games but they don't want to learn how to program or script the games from scratch. In other words what I think some people want is a tool similar too Audio Game Maker where you essentually have an empty form and you can drag and drop various objects such as enemies, walls, doors, and special items onto the form and create games through some automated method. While this is obviously somewhat limited compared to BGT this type of game creation tool would be much easier to use for some people. All of this brings me back to AGM, and what it was intended to do. In concept the Audio Game Maker is a decent idea. The problem with AGM was is that it was poorly documented, it was never fully completed, had various bugs, and the developers abandoned it as soon as it was released. This of course didn't make AGM a very good tool for game development, but it was a nice idea in concept. Which brings me to my point. I've been thinking for quite some time of creating such a game development tool. Since I
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Ken, That's precisely why I have created G3D as a managed library. I realize that languages like C++ or even Angelscript isn't for everybody. Two years ago when I started writing the Genesis Engine, before BGT came along, there was some interest in VB .net. I myself was using C# .net at the time. I realized thanks to .net I could write an engine, compile it as a dll, and simply plug it into Visual C++, Visual C#, Visual Basic, or Visual J and have access to a game engine using whatever language I desired to use. The sky is the limit. While I appreciate BGT, think it is a great game engine, you only have Angelscript to use and for someone using Visual Basic that can be a big transition. Genesis 3D, on the other hand, allows you to use any existing programming skills and use them provided the language is compatible with the library. So I wrote the current version as a managed .net library in C++. The other reason I rote G3D the way I did is I like C# .net. I have Windows 7 so I already have .net 4.0 preinstalled with the OS. However, I don't want to install a bunch of extra packages like SlimDX just to access DirectX and so on. No problem G3D wraps DirectX, Sapi, etc giving me immediate access to Windows C++ game libraries without any middleware other than g3d.dll. If I wanted to I could write a managed .net wrapper for OpenAL and use that other than DirectSound or XAudio2. It is as you say the best of both worlds. On 2/1/11, Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote: Tom, If G3d works as dll file, and could be used with VB.net, I think it could be very competitive as a game-making engine. (I guess like I said on the list earlier, I'm a die-hard VB fan, but it's what I know.) I'm not saying I won't try BGT, but C style languages really aren't my cup of C--I mean tea. Maybe it's just a have to get used to thing, maybe it's just that I've worked with quake C. I won't say I wouldn't use BGT, but the G3d engine sounds awesome--the best of both worlds as it were. You have the tool to help you, yet you get to program in your favorite language. Resistant to learning a new language--does this mean I'm getting old? NAH! Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Now that would be interesting to see what you come up with. Would like one thing in it, a demo type. So you could play around a bit but not save. Just be able to see how it does what you tell it. At 11:11 PM 1/31/2011, you wrote: Hi everyone, Over the last couple of weeks or so there has been ample discussion of various audio game creation tools such as BGT, Ken recently mentioned the GMA Engine and Audio Game Maker, and one issue that keeps coming up is that there are a few people interested in creating games but they don't want to learn how to program or script the games from scratch. In other words what I think some people want is a tool similar too Audio Game Maker where you essentually have an empty form and you can drag and drop various objects such as enemies, walls, doors, and special items onto the form and create games through some automated method. While this is obviously somewhat limited compared to BGT this type of game creation tool would be much easier to use for some people. All of this brings me back to AGM, and what it was intended to do. In concept the Audio Game Maker is a decent idea. The problem with AGM was is that it was poorly documented, it was never fully completed, had various bugs, and the developers abandoned it as soon as it was released. This of course didn't make AGM a very good tool for game development, but it was a nice idea in concept. Which brings me to my point. I've been thinking for quite some time of creating such a game development tool. Since I have written my own game engine, Genesis 3D, I could build a user interface similar to AGM where you essentually drag and drop various objects onto a form, select a menu key, and set properties on that object. In a way it would be similar to development tools like Microsoft's Visual Basic or Visual C# where you bring up a toolbox, select an object from a menu, and drop the object on your form. Then, you would access the object's properties menu, set properties, and that's all you have to really do. No scripting or programming involved. Of course, in order to create such a time consuming project I'd like to create it as a comercial product. By releasing it as a comercial product it would have lots of end user documentation, technical support, upgrades, and hopefully be what AGM was not. However, before I really take something like this too seriously I'd like to know if anyone is really interested in such a game creation tool or if it is just talk. If so i'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. Tim trouble Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance. --Sam Brown Blindeudora list owner. To subscribe or info: http://www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Richard, Oh, definitely. I have put a lot of thought into this and I came to the same general conclusions as you. AGM's problem was that it couldn't create a racing game, side-scroller, first-person game, etc because all of the functionality was too generic for that. However, if there was an editor for side-scrollers, one for first-person shooters, another for racing, etc it would go a long way to solving that basic problem. I know from my own personal experience that writing a side-scroller is totally different from writing a first-person game. I have two completely different sets of functions in the game engine for side-scrollers and first-person. In the first-person catagory I have PlayerRunForward(), PlayerStepFoward(), PlayerStepBackward(), PlayerStepLeft(), PlayerStepRight(), PlayerTurnLeft(), PlayerTurnRight(), etc. For side-scrollers I have PlayerRunLeft(), PlayerRunRight(), PlayerWalkLeft(), and PlayerWalkRight().This difference in functionality pretty much demands some sort of custom tool for each type of game. On 2/1/11, Richard @ AudioGames rich...@audiogames.net wrote: Hi Thomas (and all), You're absolutely right about the problems with the AGM-project you describe. I applaud your persuit for the development of a new audio game creation tool. I'd really like to see more tools because I want to have more audio games (I follow all threads about tools on this list silently but with great interest :-) I learned many things from the AGM project (such as dealing with time restrictions, burned-down offices, ambitious interns, etc. :-) but what is probably most useful to share is more about the design of generic game design tools: I've always thought that if I were to do the AGM-project again, that I would *first* constrain myself to a game design tool for one specific game genre. So for instance a tool for an audio race game, or a tool for an audio platform game, etc. Initially we had considered this option, but we abandoned it because we thought of the idea too much as mere level editors (with which one could not design a innovative/original game with) and because we thought there would be so much overlap between the level editors (score systems, enemies, etc.) that we could pull off a generic game design tool with a little bit more effort. In the end we found that the generic approach made it a whole lot harder to even make a very simple racing game, or a simple shooter game. With a lot more time (let's say 1,5 years) we could have probably managed to make a decent working generic version, with a better user interface (even though this one was supposed to be as simple as possible, it is still quite complex when you start). But I think that we probably would have added templates for certain game genres anyway - just to make the design more simple. I think that if you start with an audio game design tool for one specific genre (let's say a shooter or a racer or a board game), that that in itsself is already a big enough challenge. Most likely something like an Audio Race Game Maker will feature an incredible amount of variables and functionalities. This not only means that an Audio Race Game Maker is a big thing to develop, but when you achieve it, you have probably learned a great deal about how to create a more generic game development tool as well. I think that you might find that even with a single-genre tool many people will create a whole range of fun racing games and will very soon try to use it for stuff other than racing games. Then gradually you can add a new feature (open terrain instead of a fixed track, or damage variable, so that vehicles can get damaged), and another one (pickups, or a weapon to shoot another car) and quite soon people will exchange the car engine sound for footsteps and you have the initials of a basic FPS. And you can have it grow from there on. On a side note: this is actually how our project Extant (http://creativehero.es/Extant) is now slowly changing from a first-person shooter environment into an environment (in Unity) which allows us to create multiple types of games because we got all types of building blocks that work together: moving around a 3D space (x,y,z), different avatars (person, vehicle, etc.), enemies, shooting, pickups, buildings, etc. So my point is: start small, try not to create a generic tool for all game genres, but start with a tool for a single genre and build it out from there. Maybe first build three single genre tools and then make a generic version out of the three of them. Best regards, Richard http://audiogames.net --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Thomas, Initially I had thoughts about exposing BGT as a dll as well, but then came to the conclusion that it would require too much maintenance for me. Not only would I have to provide and update bindings for all sorts of obscure languages that I might not know the first thing about, on top of this I would also have to fill the documentation with examples in different languages for each and every function/method. Not something I'm keen on doing. It would only appeal to existing programmers with skills in a particular language, and not be at all self contained. From that point of view I like the idea of something you just install and get going with from the ground up. However if I as a new and aspiring game developer who already knew a language well and wanted an engine, I would probably want something like g3d as I could use what I was already familiar with. A hard nut to crack, in my opinion. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Ken, Maybe. Basically, the Genesis 3D engine is a dll file, g3d.dll, which can be added to a C++, Visual C#, or Visual Basic project and used to write games. As I mentioned on an earlier post to the list the way it works is that it has a .net style managed interface as in everything is accessible through classes and objects. You want audio, simply use the audio class. You want Sapi support simply use the speech class. You want networking use the Network class. Basically, it is an all in one API that allows a game developer to plug it into any project and get imediate access to audio,speech, networking, input, 3d calculations, etc through one very easy to use library. So what I'm basically thinking here is that I can create a front end, similar to Audio Game Maker, that allows you to map keys, configure joysticks, add mouse support, and asign them to functions like PlayerStepLeft(), PlayerStepRight(), PlayerStepBack(), PlayerStepFoward(). Plus if I create maybe 15 generic enemy objects you can select them from a list and drop them on a form, set their attributes, and they are done. Same for doors, staircases, ropes, fire pits, or anything else you might like to add to the game. The purpose here would be to do as little programming as necessary, but wrap the engine with a type of automated wizard tool that allows you to build games on the fly. HTH On 1/31/11, Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote: How about creating it as a front-end to G3D? That is, if you want to fine-tune your game through programming, you can, but it wouldn't be necessary. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
This idea is really amazing for me. Even if the BGT for few programming maniacs, for me for example it's not that bad, cause it's not toolkit, but it's another programming language to learn. This kind of really vizard or something similar will be interesting, but firstly Thomas, finish your MOTA and another things. I don't want attacking your person with weird words, but for me you shoult finish your projects before starting another. Ofcourse, it's your case, but in that way you'll never finish your games. MOTA is something like 2 or 3 years work, and now shoult be the massive audio game, but sadly it isn't. you are concetrating on changing programming languages, cross platform etc, and this is taking you to anywhere for my opinion. Back to main topic, for me it's great idea, wich can open many people to game creation without learning scripting and programming languages. Cheers Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Philip, Ah, its not that bad. One way I get around the issue of updating and/or supporting obscure programming languages is simply not to support them in the firstplace. The .net framework is fairly standardized now, and the fact is most Windows developers will most likely pick one of the big three C++ .net, C# .net, and Visual Basic .net and all three can easily be handled through a standardized managed library. Plus since the library is written in C++ I can provide static and dinamic libraries for unmanaged C++ applications as well. That pretty much covers the most common programming languages for Windows. There is Python, Java, and Visual Basic 6, but I don't really want to create the library as a com component and add those language specific bindings at this time. As far as providing compitent documentation and code samples for multiple languages that's actually an area I'd personally be good at. For one thing I took college level classes in Visual Basic, C++, Java, SQL, and have picked up languages like Python, C# .net, Visual Basic .net, etc after I left college so I could keep myself employable. As a result I know how to program in most of the programming languages out there. Writing sample documentation and/or sample code wouldn't be as hard for me as it would be for someone who only knows one or two programming languages. Yet, you are right, it is a boat load of work since I have to create multiple versions of the same documentation. On 2/1/11, Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com wrote: Hi Thomas, Initially I had thoughts about exposing BGT as a dll as well, but then came to the conclusion that it would require too much maintenance for me. Not only would I have to provide and update bindings for all sorts of obscure languages that I might not know the first thing about, on top of this I would also have to fill the documentation with examples in different languages for each and every function/method. Not something I'm keen on doing. It would only appeal to existing programmers with skills in a particular language, and not be at all self contained. From that point of view I like the idea of something you just install and get going with from the ground up. However if I as a new and aspiring game developer who already knew a language well and wanted an engine, I would probably want something like g3d as I could use what I was already familiar with. A hard nut to crack, in my opinion. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Thomas, You can do a more generic function for player movement. For example, I use the following function in my player class: bool move(int relative_x, int relative_y, bool running, bool jumping) So for my player to walk sidewards one step to the right I write: you.move(1, 0, false, false) For my player to jump backwards I write: you.move(0,-1,false,true) The move function takes care of all boundaries and timer actions and returns true if my player moved and false if not. It's a good way of doing it in my opinion instead of having different functions for sidescrollers and 3d, etc. As long as I define my x and y boundaries I don't have a problem. If I ever knew how to make a turn function and simulate it in audio I would only have one turn function for both directions probably. So instead of fifteen movement functions, I would only have two. Everyone has their own development preferences, but I do think that would boost performance a little. If you have any comments about it I'm always interested. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Richard, Oh, definitely. I have put a lot of thought into this and I came to the same general conclusions as you. AGM's problem was that it couldn't create a racing game, side-scroller, first-person game, etc because all of the functionality was too generic for that. However, if there was an editor for side-scrollers, one for first-person shooters, another for racing, etc it would go a long way to solving that basic problem. I know from my own personal experience that writing a side-scroller is totally different from writing a first-person game. I have two completely different sets of functions in the game engine for side-scrollers and first-person. In the first-person catagory I have PlayerRunForward(), PlayerStepFoward(), PlayerStepBackward(), PlayerStepLeft(), PlayerStepRight(), PlayerTurnLeft(), PlayerTurnRight(), etc. For side-scrollers I have PlayerRunLeft(), PlayerRunRight(), PlayerWalkLeft(), and PlayerWalkRight().This difference in functionality pretty much demands some sort of custom tool for each type of game. On 2/1/11, Richard @ AudioGames rich...@audiogames.net wrote: Hi Thomas (and all), You're absolutely right about the problems with the AGM-project you describe. I applaud your persuit for the development of a new audio game creation tool. I'd really like to see more tools because I want to have more audio games (I follow all threads about tools on this list silently but with great interest :-) I learned many things from the AGM project (such as dealing with time restrictions, burned-down offices, ambitious interns, etc. :-) but what is probably most useful to share is more about the design of generic game design tools: I've always thought that if I were to do the AGM-project again, that I would *first* constrain myself to a game design tool for one specific game genre. So for instance a tool for an audio race game, or a tool for an audio platform game, etc. Initially we had considered this option, but we abandoned it because we thought of the idea too much as mere level editors (with which one could not design a innovative/original game with) and because we thought there would be so much overlap between the level editors (score systems, enemies, etc.) that we could pull off a generic game design tool with a little bit more effort. In the end we found that the generic approach made it a whole lot harder to even make a very simple racing game, or a simple shooter game. With a lot more time (let's say 1,5 years) we could have probably managed to make a decent working generic version, with a better user interface (even though this one was supposed to be as simple as possible, it is still quite complex when you start). But I think that we probably would have added templates for certain game genres anyway - just to make the design more simple. I think that if you start with an audio game design tool for one specific genre (let's say a shooter or a racer or a board game), that that in itsself is already a big enough challenge. Most likely something like an Audio Race Game Maker will feature an incredible amount of variables and functionalities. This not only means that an Audio Race Game Maker is a big thing to develop, but when you achieve it, you have probably learned a great deal about how to create a more generic game development tool as well. I think that you might find that even with a single-genre tool many people will create a whole range of fun racing games and will very soon try to use it for stuff other than racing games. Then gradually you can add a new feature (open terrain instead of a fixed track, or damage variable, so that vehicles can get damaged), and another one (pickups, or a weapon to shoot another car) and quite
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Philip, Why don't you have a separate DLL included with the BGT package? That way, they have the language, the main documentation, and if you have a small section in the documentation saying that the DLL is exactly the same reference for BGT itself I think that would work. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Thomas, Initially I had thoughts about exposing BGT as a dll as well, but then came to the conclusion that it would require too much maintenance for me. Not only would I have to provide and update bindings for all sorts of obscure languages that I might not know the first thing about, on top of this I would also have to fill the documentation with examples in different languages for each and every function/method. Not something I'm keen on doing. It would only appeal to existing programmers with skills in a particular language, and not be at all self contained. From that point of view I like the idea of something you just install and get going with from the ground up. However if I as a new and aspiring game developer who already knew a language well and wanted an engine, I would probably want something like g3d as I could use what I was already familiar with. A hard nut to crack, in my opinion. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Ken, Maybe. Basically, the Genesis 3D engine is a dll file, g3d.dll, which can be added to a C++, Visual C#, or Visual Basic project and used to write games. As I mentioned on an earlier post to the list the way it works is that it has a .net style managed interface as in everything is accessible through classes and objects. You want audio, simply use the audio class. You want Sapi support simply use the speech class. You want networking use the Network class. Basically, it is an all in one API that allows a game developer to plug it into any project and get imediate access to audio,speech, networking, input, 3d calculations, etc through one very easy to use library. So what I'm basically thinking here is that I can create a front end, similar to Audio Game Maker, that allows you to map keys, configure joysticks, add mouse support, and asign them to functions like PlayerStepLeft(), PlayerStepRight(), PlayerStepBack(), PlayerStepFoward(). Plus if I create maybe 15 generic enemy objects you can select them from a list and drop them on a form, set their attributes, and they are done. Same for doors, staircases, ropes, fire pits, or anything else you might like to add to the game. The purpose here would be to do as little programming as necessary, but wrap the engine with a type of automated wizard tool that allows you to build games on the fly. HTH On 1/31/11, Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote: How about creating it as a front-end to G3D? That is, if you want to fine-tune your game through programming, you can, but it wouldn't be necessary. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Tom, I have no intentions of just abandoning MOTA or Raceway in favor of creating something else at this time. Just because I might talk about creating something like this down the road does not mean that I'll start work on it today or tomorrow. I might not ever make it. I'm merely gathering information about how much interest there is in such a product. I certainly don't need reminders to finish MOTA, Raceway, etc. I get enough badgering about those products as it is. Cheers! On 2/1/11, lirin seal11...@gmail.com wrote: This idea is really amazing for me. Even if the BGT for few programming maniacs, for me for example it's not that bad, cause it's not toolkit, but it's another programming language to learn. This kind of really vizard or something similar will be interesting, but firstly Thomas, finish your MOTA and another things. I don't want attacking your person with weird words, but for me you shoult finish your projects before starting another. Ofcourse, it's your case, but in that way you'll never finish your games. MOTA is something like 2 or 3 years work, and now shoult be the massive audio game, but sadly it isn't. you are concetrating on changing programming languages, cross platform etc, and this is taking you to anywhere for my opinion. Back to main topic, for me it's great idea, wich can open many people to game creation without learning scripting and programming languages. Cheers Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Yeah, a genre-specific tool would probably have been a better idea. I remember that for the computer and even Play Station there was an RPG Maker tool which I did have quite a bit of fun with despite never actually managing to create a game with. Admittedly all games created with, say, the PlayStation version would have featured the same music and SFX since unlike the PC versions you couldn't import new sounds and music. Unfortunately such tools didn't do well in the mainstream market and were never actually released in the US anyway. Probably for the best. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Richard @ AudioGames rich...@audiogames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:39 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Thomas (and all), You're absolutely right about the problems with the AGM-project you describe. I applaud your persuit for the development of a new audio game creation tool. I'd really like to see more tools because I want to have more audio games (I follow all threads about tools on this list silently but with great interest :-) I learned many things from the AGM project (such as dealing with time restrictions, burned-down offices, ambitious interns, etc. :-) but what is probably most useful to share is more about the design of generic game design tools: I've always thought that if I were to do the AGM-project again, that I would *first* constrain myself to a game design tool for one specific game genre. So for instance a tool for an audio race game, or a tool for an audio platform game, etc. Initially we had considered this option, but we abandoned it because we thought of the idea too much as mere level editors (with which one could not design a innovative/original game with) and because we thought there would be so much overlap between the level editors (score systems, enemies, etc.) that we could pull off a generic game design tool with a little bit more effort. In the end we found that the generic approach made it a whole lot harder to even make a very simple racing game, or a simple shooter game. With a lot more time (let's say 1,5 years) we could have probably managed to make a decent working generic version, with a better user interface (even though this one was supposed to be as simple as possible, it is still quite complex when you start). But I think that we probably would have added templates for certain game genres anyway - just to make the design more simple. I think that if you start with an audio game design tool for one specific genre (let's say a shooter or a racer or a board game), that that in itsself is already a big enough challenge. Most likely something like an Audio Race Game Maker will feature an incredible amount of variables and functionalities. This not only means that an Audio Race Game Maker is a big thing to develop, but when you achieve it, you have probably learned a great deal about how to create a more generic game development tool as well. I think that you might find that even with a single-genre tool many people will create a whole range of fun racing games and will very soon try to use it for stuff other than racing games. Then gradually you can add a new feature (open terrain instead of a fixed track, or damage variable, so that vehicles can get damaged), and another one (pickups, or a weapon to shoot another car) and quite soon people will exchange the car engine sound for footsteps and you have the initials of a basic FPS. And you can have it grow from there on. On a side note: this is actually how our project Extant (http://creativehero.es/Extant) is now slowly changing from a first-person shooter environment into an environment (in Unity) which allows us to create multiple types of games because we got all types of building blocks that work together: moving around a 3D space (x,y,z), different avatars (person, vehicle, etc.), enemies, shooting, pickups, buildings, etc. So my point is: start small, try not to create a generic tool for all game genres, but start with a tool for a single genre and build it out from there. Maybe first build three single genre tools and then make a generic version out of the three of them. Best regards, Richard http://audiogames.net - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:11 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi everyone, Over the last couple of weeks or so there has been ample discussion of various audio game creation tools such as BGT, Ken recently mentioned the GMA Engine and Audio Game Maker, and one issue that keeps coming up is that there are a few people interested in creating games but they don't want to learn how to program or script the games from scratch. In other words what I think some people want is a tool similar too Audio Game Maker where you essentually have
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Ah yes, I remember those Doom things. My dad had a Simpsons one tat was pretty funny. Homer was the main character dude and then I think Moe was used for some of the monsters. I'm gonna shove a sausage down ya throat and...well I won't finish that line since it is rather rude. But it was pretty funny. Then anytime you picked up ammo or anything it would play a sound of Homer eating donuts and then saying More. I think there was even a Santa Clause scheme. But I'm with Thomas on this issue. When it comes to games I play I wouldn't complain about a level editor provided it was reasonably easy to use, but when it comes to any games I might develop (although I don't know if BGT yet offers or will ever offer that capability), I'm not entirely sure I'd want to add a level editor. When I make a game I want to make it how I want it to be. I'll add reasonable suggestions and features but only so long as I feel they fit well within the context of the game. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:24 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Phil, Well, to be honest I have mixed feelings about that subject. I do certainly understand the desire to have level editors, but at the same time I want the games to be created the way I invisioned it rather than have someone else add his or her ideas to it and completely change the nature of the game. For example, over the course of developing Mysteries of the Ancients I've seen all kinds of rediculous ideas. Several of them asking to add this or that creature from Harry Potter, and they aren't necessarily Greek in origen. Understandably I'd be upset, to say the least, if there were a bunch of Harry Potter mods floating around as that would totally kill the game for me. Mysteries of the Ancients is to be a spin off from Tomb Raider not Harry Potter or anything else. So people would have to stick to that storyline, but if you give them a level editor there is no saying that is what they will do. On the other hand games that have level editors etc have become quite popular with the public. One such game, Doom, was hugely successful because of the wad creation tools for the game. Back in the early to mid 90's there were several custom wads for Doom including a Terminator wad pack, Star Wars wad pack, etc and it really allowed gamers like you and I to create our own games using the Doom engine. As a end user I thought it was cool. However, now that I'm a game developer myself my feelings have changed about allowing end users the right to create there own custom game levels with an existing game. For one thing any game I personally create is something of a work of art as Geremy pointed out in another thread. So when people change the game I labored to write, create a certain way, I'm a bit offended as they are in effect saying they don't like the game I spent countless hours, days, weeks, etc working on. They want something else, and are just using my game to build some other game they want. On 2/1/11, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I like your idea but in one specific area. It would allow game players to add new levels to existing USA games such as David did with Lone Wolf. I would enjoy adding new levels to MOTA or new tracks to Raceway. One thing that the LW level generator does not allow is user supplied sounds. So if you like this idea, then there should be a way of adding new sounds and creatures. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Damien, Ummm..I'm not sure about that. I don't know how your move function actually works. I know my movement functions would require the player's angle, AKA the direction the player is facing, his/her speed, plus the x, y, and z position and calculate a vector along that direction to find out where the player's next step will be. For that reason I wrote separate functions to move correctly. What I'm saying is that my movement functions don't simply add or subtract 1 to the x/y/z axes. They use trig based calculations to determine where the player's next step will be given the player's current angle, velocity, and position in 3d space. So I'm not quite sure how your movement function works and if it would really apply to a 3d fps engine or not. On 2/1/11, Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net wrote: Hi Thomas, You can do a more generic function for player movement. For example, I use the following function in my player class: bool move(int relative_x, int relative_y, bool running, bool jumping) So for my player to walk sidewards one step to the right I write: you.move(1, 0, false, false) For my player to jump backwards I write: you.move(0,-1,false,true) The move function takes care of all boundaries and timer actions and returns true if my player moved and false if not. It's a good way of doing it in my opinion instead of having different functions for sidescrollers and 3d, etc. As long as I define my x and y boundaries I don't have a problem. If I ever knew how to make a turn function and simulate it in audio I would only have one turn function for both directions probably. So instead of fifteen movement functions, I would only have two. Everyone has their own development preferences, but I do think that would boost performance a little. If you have any comments about it I'm always interested. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Ari, Well, Mario is definitely copyrighted by Nintendo. Sounds, graphics, names, etc. However, to be honest the game idea is generic enough you could create something very much like it if you are creative enough. For example, on Linux there is a game called Super Tux. Super Tux happens to be a Mario style game where you play the Linux Penguine, Tux, breaking ice blocks, jumping over traps, and more or less doing the same things as Mario. In a lot of ways it is fairly close to Mario without stepping on any copyright laws etc. However, as for creating such an automated tool we'll see. I'm not at all sure it is a good idea myself given the fact that tools like AGM can only go so far before you require some scripting or programming. One of the problems with AGM was that it was limited in the sorts of games you could create, and the types of objects were fairly generic. Perhaps too generic for certain types of games. So in order to create such a tool myself I'd have to find a way to get around that problem which wouldn't be easy. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Arianna Sepulveda englishride...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, my God, Tom! Please, please, please consider doing this! I'd buy it! Programming is something I don't know how people do. I am truely astounded at how much work is involved, and I don't think I could figure it out too well. However, programming must have some logic to it--it's a system, after all, and I love systems. But this would get me started. I've always wanted to create some audio games! Something kinda like Super Mario World--well, not exactly--it's copywritten, after all, but something similar. Hmmm, wonder if the sounds/music is copywritten? Probably--who am I kidding? Anyhow, I've always wanted to do something like this! Thanks, --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Thomas, I understand where you are coming from as I wouldn't want people to add levels to my Sarah game. But consider the idea for Raceway where users could add additional tracks and cars to it. Phil - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Phil, Well, to be honest I have mixed feelings about that subject. I do certainly understand the desire to have level editors, but at the same time I want the games to be created the way I invisioned it rather than have someone else add his or her ideas to it and completely change the nature of the game. For example, over the course of developing Mysteries of the Ancients I've seen all kinds of rediculous ideas. Several of them asking to add this or that creature from Harry Potter, and they aren't necessarily Greek in origen. Understandably I'd be upset, to say the least, if there were a bunch of Harry Potter mods floating around as that would totally kill the game for me. Mysteries of the Ancients is to be a spin off from Tomb Raider not Harry Potter or anything else. So people would have to stick to that storyline, but if you give them a level editor there is no saying that is what they will do. On the other hand games that have level editors etc have become quite popular with the public. One such game, Doom, was hugely successful because of the wad creation tools for the game. Back in the early to mid 90's there were several custom wads for Doom including a Terminator wad pack, Star Wars wad pack, etc and it really allowed gamers like you and I to create our own games using the Doom engine. As a end user I thought it was cool. However, now that I'm a game developer myself my feelings have changed about allowing end users the right to create there own custom game levels with an existing game. For one thing any game I personally create is something of a work of art as Geremy pointed out in another thread. So when people change the game I labored to write, create a certain way, I'm a bit offended as they are in effect saying they don't like the game I spent countless hours, days, weeks, etc working on. They want something else, and are just using my game to build some other game they want. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
That would definitely make sense. Even the old NES game Excitebike featured a track editor. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Thomas, I understand where you are coming from as I wouldn't want people to add levels to my Sarah game. But consider the idea for Raceway where users could add additional tracks and cars to it. Phil - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Phil, Well, to be honest I have mixed feelings about that subject. I do certainly understand the desire to have level editors, but at the same time I want the games to be created the way I invisioned it rather than have someone else add his or her ideas to it and completely change the nature of the game. For example, over the course of developing Mysteries of the Ancients I've seen all kinds of rediculous ideas. Several of them asking to add this or that creature from Harry Potter, and they aren't necessarily Greek in origen. Understandably I'd be upset, to say the least, if there were a bunch of Harry Potter mods floating around as that would totally kill the game for me. Mysteries of the Ancients is to be a spin off from Tomb Raider not Harry Potter or anything else. So people would have to stick to that storyline, but if you give them a level editor there is no saying that is what they will do. On the other hand games that have level editors etc have become quite popular with the public. One such game, Doom, was hugely successful because of the wad creation tools for the game. Back in the early to mid 90's there were several custom wads for Doom including a Terminator wad pack, Star Wars wad pack, etc and it really allowed gamers like you and I to create our own games using the Doom engine. As a end user I thought it was cool. However, now that I'm a game developer myself my feelings have changed about allowing end users the right to create there own custom game levels with an existing game. For one thing any game I personally create is something of a work of art as Geremy pointed out in another thread. So when people change the game I labored to write, create a certain way, I'm a bit offended as they are in effect saying they don't like the game I spent countless hours, days, weeks, etc working on. They want something else, and are just using my game to build some other game they want. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
I agree, lodgic is something I fall down on all the time. If I'm looking at a piece of equipment for example like a computer, I know how it works and understand the menus, but throw a whole load of coding language at me and I just go blank. - Original Message - From: Arianna Sepulveda englishride...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Oh, my God, Tom! Please, please, please consider doing this! I'd buy it! Programming is something I don't know how people do. I am truely astounded at how much work is involved, and I don't think I could figure it out too well. However, programming must have some logic to it--it's a system, after all, and I love systems. But this would get me started. I've always wanted to create some audio games! Something kinda like Super Mario World--well, not exactly--it's copywritten, after all, but something similar. Hmmm, wonder if the sounds/music is copywritten? Probably--who am I kidding? Anyhow, I've always wanted to do something like this! Thanks, Ari On 1/31/11, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jacob, Hey, that's all I want to know. I'd much rather have an honest opinion saying you don't like the idea rather than spending months creating a piece of software that no one has any interest in buying. If and when I ever go commercial with the Genesis 3D engine I need to know what people are looking for. My personal opinion right now is to add scripting so that it can be scripted like BGT. However, there are some, maybe not many, who are reluctant to learn a scripting language like Lua, Angelscript, etc and build games that way. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote: It's a very nice idea, but, to be honest, would really depend on pricing etc. since I, from my side, definitely wouldn't be using it professionally, and unless I could pay you the same amount, but in ZAR...it would most likely not be something I would be prepared to spend too much money on - sorry, but just being honest...smile Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
You could do it like the horse racing game. Instead of editing sounds, you could do the traps and enemies. You can also have options to restore to default settings. Basically, I'm not sure how the level grid works, but here is an example. Your up and down arrow keys are to select which type of position you want. Lets say the level grid ends at 20. You can have. 1. The positions are actually rooms. firepit. or 1. Staircase. or random, or enemy. 3. The same. You can use your left and right arrow keys to change the positions objects. That's what I've thought of. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi Phil, Well, to be honest I have mixed feelings about that subject. I do certainly understand the desire to have level editors, but at the same time I want the games to be created the way I invisioned it rather than have someone else add his or her ideas to it and completely change the nature of the game. For example, over the course of developing Mysteries of the Ancients I've seen all kinds of rediculous ideas. Several of them asking to add this or that creature from Harry Potter, and they aren't necessarily Greek in origen. Understandably I'd be upset, to say the least, if there were a bunch of Harry Potter mods floating around as that would totally kill the game for me. Mysteries of the Ancients is to be a spin off from Tomb Raider not Harry Potter or anything else. So people would have to stick to that storyline, but if you give them a level editor there is no saying that is what they will do. On the other hand games that have level editors etc have become quite popular with the public. One such game, Doom, was hugely successful because of the wad creation tools for the game. Back in the early to mid 90's there were several custom wads for Doom including a Terminator wad pack, Star Wars wad pack, etc and it really allowed gamers like you and I to create our own games using the Doom engine. As a end user I thought it was cool. However, now that I'm a game developer myself my feelings have changed about allowing end users the right to create there own custom game levels with an existing game. For one thing any game I personally create is something of a work of art as Geremy pointed out in another thread. So when people change the game I labored to write, create a certain way, I'm a bit offended as they are in effect saying they don't like the game I spent countless hours, days, weeks, etc working on. They want something else, and are just using my game to build some other game they want. On 2/1/11, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I like your idea but in one specific area. It would allow game players to add new levels to existing USA games such as David did with Lone Wolf. I would enjoy adding new levels to MOTA or new tracks to Raceway. One thing that the LW level generator does not allow is user supplied sounds. So if you like this idea, then there should be a way of adding new sounds and creatures. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Phil, Well, my feeling is basically like this. I don't mind something like a track editor for Raceway because that is a specific type of tool for a specific kind of game. That doesn't really effect the game in any way other to give the player more kinds of custom tracks. I don't have any problems with that kind of level editor. However, there are other types of games where a custom level editor isn't a good idea. It can be down right detrimental to the project and/or the author's initial design. It opens the door to all kinds of modifications that might apeal to the end user, but be just absolutely disagreeable to the developer. For example, besides having an interest in computer science I have always been a huge fan of history, mithology, and archeology. As a result games like Tomb Raider, Indiana Jones, Montezuma's Revenge, or anything like that has always apealed to me as a gamer. In such a setting as that, where some historical accuracy is essential, the last thing a developer wants is to have some end user just coming up with some levels that have nothing to do with the mythology and history of the game setting. Imagine this. Suppose I decide one day to create a historical game based on the life of Joan of Ark. You, the player, get to live out various aspects of Joan's life. You might start out as a simple peasant girl living in suthern France until one day you have a vision that tells you to visit King Charles, the future King of France, and to give him a message sent from God. As Joan you travel to the palace and give Charles the message. As happens in history Charles places young Joan in command of his army. Now dressed in mens clothing, waring battle armour, and carrying a sword 16-year old Joan marches north to Orleans where The English and Burgundians have laid siege to the city. According to historical accounts under Joan's leadership the French managed to break the six month siege in just under three days after Joan took command of the army. From there Joan lead the French in several battles until she was captured at the battle of Paris in 1430. Unfortunately, for Joan the English put her on trial and had her wrongly exicuted for witchcraft. Well, actually she was executed for waring mens clothing because the charge of witchcraft didn't stick. However, that's beside the point. The fact is the English wanted Joan executed, because she had helped put King Charles on the thrown a year before, and by discrediting Joan as a witch they might be able to convince the Pope to declare Charles a heretic and have him excommunicated. If they had succeeded they would have completely changed the power base in France, and King Edward would have had an easier time taking control. Anyway, in a game like that, where historical accuracy makes or breaks the game, the last thing I would want is someone to modify the game. It goes beyond just being a work of art. It is a historical reenactment of a real person's life, personal struggles in war, and one young woman's transformation from simple peasant girl to warrior maiden. Someone who's death was extremely tragic, but became a rallying point for French men-in-arms who served under her command. That kind of game needs care and attention to any historical details we have on Joan's life and would be absolutely ruined through a level editor. Games of the Tomb Raider style could easily be ruined through careless inattention to detail the same way. Oh, monsters like the lamia, minotaur, the centaurs, harpies, and so on are completely fictional. However, I borrowed them out of Greek mythology, and have tried to stay close to the myths as much as possible. Someone who likes another type of game might stick something like a basilisk in the game which isn't at all Greek in origen. Totally out of place in that type of game. So a level editor wouldn't really work out too well. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I understand where you are coming from as I wouldn't want people to add levels to my Sarah game. But consider the idea for Raceway where users could add additional tracks and cars to it. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 05:25:59PM +, Lori Duncan wrote: I agree, lodgic is something I fall down on all the time. If I'm looking at a piece of equipment for example like a computer, I know how it works and understand the menus, but throw a whole load of coding language at me and I just go blank. [My Reply:] Programming is like owning an Erector set. You have a whole bunch of parts that do little things. Take a motor, a wheel, a dipper and bolts. Using bolts, connect the dipper and the wheel together, then bolt the wheel to the motor. Put it in a river and have the dippers spill into a tank, and you have a water wheel. Programming is the same thing, only with commands, telling the computer what to do. Know what all the parts do, and you will begin to see what *CAN* be done. And Arianna Sepulveda said:] Programming is something I don't know how people do. I am truely astounded at how much work is involved, and I don't think I could figure it out too well. [My Reply:] As long as you continue telling yourself that, the longer you cripple yourself Michael -- Linux User: 177869 *#* Powered By: Intel *#* http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Michael,
I love the way you're approaching it. One problem I find all over the place
is that people want to dive into creating Microsoft word, Shades of Doom or
thereabouts. Start simple.
If you're using C++, write some program like this:
#include iostream
Using namespace std;
Int main()
{
Cout Hello there! This is my first program!;
Return 0;
}
Bingo! You've got something functional and that gives you the basic C++
program. The same holds true to other languages; try printing text before
anything else, I often find that it is the best way to begin programming.
Best Regards,
Hayden
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Frost
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:09 PM
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 05:25:59PM +, Lori Duncan wrote:
I agree, lodgic is something I fall down on all the time. If I'm
looking at a piece of equipment for example like a computer, I know
how it works and understand the menus, but throw a whole load of
coding language at me and I just go blank.
[My Reply:]
Programming is like owning an Erector set. You have a whole
bunch of parts that do little things. Take a motor, a wheel, a dipper
and bolts. Using bolts, connect the dipper and the wheel together, then
bolt the wheel to the motor. Put it in a river and have the dippers
spill into a tank, and you have a water wheel. Programming is the same
thing, only with commands, telling the computer what to do. Know what
all the parts do, and you will begin to see what *CAN* be done.
And Arianna Sepulveda said:]
Programming is something I don't know how people do. I am truely
astounded at how much work is involved, and I don't think I could
figure it out too well.
[My Reply:]
As long as you continue telling yourself that, the longer you
cripple yourself
Michael
--
Linux User: 177869 *#* Powered By: Intel *#*
http://rivensight.dyndns.org
Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti
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Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
How about creating it as a front-end to G3D? That is, if you want to fine-tune your game through programming, you can, but it wouldn't be necessary. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:11 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi everyone, Over the last couple of weeks or so there has been ample discussion of various audio game creation tools such as BGT, Ken recently mentioned the GMA Engine and Audio Game Maker, and one issue that keeps coming up is that there are a few people interested in creating games but they don't want to learn how to program or script the games from scratch. In other words what I think some people want is a tool similar too Audio Game Maker where you essentually have an empty form and you can drag and drop various objects such as enemies, walls, doors, and special items onto the form and create games through some automated method. While this is obviously somewhat limited compared to BGT this type of game creation tool would be much easier to use for some people. All of this brings me back to AGM, and what it was intended to do. In concept the Audio Game Maker is a decent idea. The problem with AGM was is that it was poorly documented, it was never fully completed, had various bugs, and the developers abandoned it as soon as it was released. This of course didn't make AGM a very good tool for game development, but it was a nice idea in concept. Which brings me to my point. I've been thinking for quite some time of creating such a game development tool. Since I have written my own game engine, Genesis 3D, I could build a user interface similar to AGM where you essentually drag and drop various objects onto a form, select a menu key, and set properties on that object. In a way it would be similar to development tools like Microsoft's Visual Basic or Visual C# where you bring up a toolbox, select an object from a menu, and drop the object on your form. Then, you would access the object's properties menu, set properties, and that's all you have to really do. No scripting or programming involved. Of course, in order to create such a time consuming project I'd like to create it as a comercial product. By releasing it as a comercial product it would have lots of end user documentation, technical support, upgrades, and hopefully be what AGM was not. However, before I really take something like this too seriously I'd like to know if anyone is really interested in such a game creation tool or if it is just talk. If so i'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Thomas, This was actually what I invisioned for BGT in its very early stages of development. However I quickly realized how close to impossible such a task is to complete successfully. Sure you can make a few templates with objects, behaviors and other things that the player can customize, but how much further can you go? You can drag and drop controls on to a window form, but how these controls behave is entirely up to the programmer in the end whether it is vb.net, C# and so on. Similarly you may be able to select how many sound sources should be in an environment, how many levels should be available and a few other things, but how much more can you really do in game development with a wysiwyg editor? The risk is that most games will become very generic, easy to recognize as being yet another construction from the same template, and the end results would get down-right boring. Giving the user greatly simplified tools to accomplish the task is one thing, holding their hand all the way and attempting to let them run without moving is another. A lot of people have suggested the same as Ken, that one could make a wysiwyg front-end that could complement the scripting, but I don't really buy this idea either. If you use the wysiwyg, it would generate code for you. In order to be interesting this code would most likely have to be fairly involved in places, and we all know that it is very hard to go in and modify someone elses code. Writing your own is often much easier, and in order to be able to modify things in the first place you will need to learn the language and the API which brings us right back to square 1. Just my two cents. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:11 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi everyone, Over the last couple of weeks or so there has been ample discussion of various audio game creation tools such as BGT, Ken recently mentioned the GMA Engine and Audio Game Maker, and one issue that keeps coming up is that there are a few people interested in creating games but they don't want to learn how to program or script the games from scratch. In other words what I think some people want is a tool similar too Audio Game Maker where you essentually have an empty form and you can drag and drop various objects such as enemies, walls, doors, and special items onto the form and create games through some automated method. While this is obviously somewhat limited compared to BGT this type of game creation tool would be much easier to use for some people. All of this brings me back to AGM, and what it was intended to do. In concept the Audio Game Maker is a decent idea. The problem with AGM was is that it was poorly documented, it was never fully completed, had various bugs, and the developers abandoned it as soon as it was released. This of course didn't make AGM a very good tool for game development, but it was a nice idea in concept. Which brings me to my point. I've been thinking for quite some time of creating such a game development tool. Since I have written my own game engine, Genesis 3D, I could build a user interface similar to AGM where you essentually drag and drop various objects onto a form, select a menu key, and set properties on that object. In a way it would be similar to development tools like Microsoft's Visual Basic or Visual C# where you bring up a toolbox, select an object from a menu, and drop the object on your form. Then, you would access the object's properties menu, set properties, and that's all you have to really do. No scripting or programming involved. Of course, in order to create such a time consuming project I'd like to create it as a comercial product. By releasing it as a comercial product it would have lots of end user documentation, technical support, upgrades, and hopefully be what AGM was not. However, before I really take something like this too seriously I'd like to know if anyone is really interested in such a game creation tool or if it is just talk. If so i'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Ken, Maybe. Basically, the Genesis 3D engine is a dll file, g3d.dll, which can be added to a C++, Visual C#, or Visual Basic project and used to write games. As I mentioned on an earlier post to the list the way it works is that it has a .net style managed interface as in everything is accessible through classes and objects. You want audio, simply use the audio class. You want Sapi support simply use the speech class. You want networking use the Network class. Basically, it is an all in one API that allows a game developer to plug it into any project and get imediate access to audio,speech, networking, input, 3d calculations, etc through one very easy to use library. So what I'm basically thinking here is that I can create a front end, similar to Audio Game Maker, that allows you to map keys, configure joysticks, add mouse support, and asign them to functions like PlayerStepLeft(), PlayerStepRight(), PlayerStepBack(), PlayerStepFoward(). Plus if I create maybe 15 generic enemy objects you can select them from a list and drop them on a form, set their attributes, and they are done. Same for doors, staircases, ropes, fire pits, or anything else you might like to add to the game. The purpose here would be to do as little programming as necessary, but wrap the engine with a type of automated wizard tool that allows you to build games on the fly. HTH On 1/31/11, Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote: How about creating it as a front-end to G3D? That is, if you want to fine-tune your game through programming, you can, but it wouldn't be necessary. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
It's a very nice idea, but, to be honest, would really depend on pricing etc. since I, from my side, definitely wouldn't be using it professionally, and unless I could pay you the same amount, but in ZAR...it would most likely not be something I would be prepared to spend too much money on - sorry, but just being honest...smile Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:11 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools Hi everyone, Over the last couple of weeks or so there has been ample discussion of various audio game creation tools such as BGT, Ken recently mentioned the GMA Engine and Audio Game Maker, and one issue that keeps coming up is that there are a few people interested in creating games but they don't want to learn how to program or script the games from scratch. In other words what I think some people want is a tool similar too Audio Game Maker where you essentually have an empty form and you can drag and drop various objects such as enemies, walls, doors, and special items onto the form and create games through some automated method. While this is obviously somewhat limited compared to BGT this type of game creation tool would be much easier to use for some people. All of this brings me back to AGM, and what it was intended to do. In concept the Audio Game Maker is a decent idea. The problem with AGM was is that it was poorly documented, it was never fully completed, had various bugs, and the developers abandoned it as soon as it was released. This of course didn't make AGM a very good tool for game development, but it was a nice idea in concept. Which brings me to my point. I've been thinking for quite some time of creating such a game development tool. Since I have written my own game engine, Genesis 3D, I could build a user interface similar to AGM where you essentually drag and drop various objects onto a form, select a menu key, and set properties on that object. In a way it would be similar to development tools like Microsoft's Visual Basic or Visual C# where you bring up a toolbox, select an object from a menu, and drop the object on your form. Then, you would access the object's properties menu, set properties, and that's all you have to really do. No scripting or programming involved. Of course, in order to create such a time consuming project I'd like to create it as a comercial product. By releasing it as a comercial product it would have lots of end user documentation, technical support, upgrades, and hopefully be what AGM was not. However, before I really take something like this too seriously I'd like to know if anyone is really interested in such a game creation tool or if it is just talk. If so i'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Philip, Yeah, I know. That's why when I created the Genesis 3D engine I compiled it as an dll library. My thinking was that someone would like to use a programming language that they know be it C++, C# .net, Visual Basic .net, and just include the g3d.dll file in a project, initialize the classes, and away they go. It gives someone the ccore functionality for input, audio, speech, networking, whatever without having to reinvent the wheel so to speak.At the same time since it isn't bound to any specific language or wysiwyg editor a developer is free to create games in his/her own way. Unfortunately, there is a few, not many, but a few people who want a fully automated system, some sort of wysiwyg editor, that just does everything for them. Instead of taking the time to learn how to program or script that game they want a simple tool to do this for them. However, as you pointed out there is really no way this can be done without having x number of games that are virtually identical to each other. Oh, the sounds might be different, levels might be different, but game play and so on will be fairly identical from game to game. This was one of the major short-comings of Audio Game Maker. You had no way to modify the enemy A.I. or anyway to extend the functionality of any specific game object. It is a classic case of what you see is what you get. For myself personally I think what you are doing is the right thing. It is possible once I get MOTA and Raceway out the door I'll modify the engine to use a scripting language like Lua, Angelscript, or something like that so I can just script the games instead of using a language like C++ to build games. However, that is down the road. Smile. On 1/31/11, Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com wrote: Hi Thomas, This was actually what I invisioned for BGT in its very early stages of development. However I quickly realized how close to impossible such a task is to complete successfully. Sure you can make a few templates with objects, behaviors and other things that the player can customize, but how much further can you go? You can drag and drop controls on to a window form, but how these controls behave is entirely up to the programmer in the end whether it is vb.net, C# and so on. Similarly you may be able to select how many sound sources should be in an environment, how many levels should be available and a few other things, but how much more can you really do in game development with a wysiwyg editor? The risk is that most games will become very generic, easy to recognize as being yet another construction from the same template, and the end results would get down-right boring. Giving the user greatly simplified tools to accomplish the task is one thing, holding their hand all the way and attempting to let them run without moving is another. A lot of people have suggested the same as Ken, that one could make a wysiwyg front-end that could complement the scripting, but I don't really buy this idea either. If you use the wysiwyg, it would generate code for you. In order to be interesting this code would most likely have to be fairly involved in places, and we all know that it is very hard to go in and modify someone elses code. Writing your own is often much easier, and in order to be able to modify things in the first place you will need to learn the language and the API which brings us right back to square 1. Just my two cents. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Creation Tools
Hi Jacob, Hey, that's all I want to know. I'd much rather have an honest opinion saying you don't like the idea rather than spending months creating a piece of software that no one has any interest in buying. If and when I ever go commercial with the Genesis 3D engine I need to know what people are looking for. My personal opinion right now is to add scripting so that it can be scripted like BGT. However, there are some, maybe not many, who are reluctant to learn a scripting language like Lua, Angelscript, etc and build games that way. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote: It's a very nice idea, but, to be honest, would really depend on pricing etc. since I, from my side, definitely wouldn't be using it professionally, and unless I could pay you the same amount, but in ZAR...it would most likely not be something I would be prepared to spend too much money on - sorry, but just being honest...smile Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
