Re: [h-cost] Non destructive testing for wool/synthetic
If the reason you need to know is to figure out how to wash it, you could simply plan to hand wash it to be on the safe side. Baby things are small and usually don't take forever to wash or dry. If there are other concerns (such as potential allergy), the smell and feel tests should give you a clue. You can also ask other knitters to smell and feel it if you're not sure you know how to tell. Alternatively -- neither of the "destructive" tests requires more than, say, half an inch of yarn or a pea-sized quantity of fuzz. Carefully clipping off some "fuzz" from the inside without actually cutting any yarn, or looking for a place to clip a little off the inside of a seam allowance, could let you be sure. On Aug 17, 2016, at 11:46 PM, Elizabeth Jones wrote: > Hi everyone, > This is not directly historical but I knew this list would be my best > chance of an answer. > My uncle sent my 2 month old son a gift of a hand knitted cardigan which he > bought from a charity stall. without a label I have no way to know if they > have used wool or acrylic yarn. > I know I can test using bleach or a burn test but I don't want to damage > the garment is there a non destructive test I can do on a finished garment? > Thanks > Elizabeth > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________ OChris Laning <clan...@igc.org> - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://www.ravelry.com/stores/medievalknitting ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise/Shift question
Yes, Janet Arnold's book on shirts and other linen garments would be THE place to look, at least for English styles. Unfortunately my copy is put on loan at the moment. My educated guess is that, since not every smock or shirt is decorative, there are probably some utilitarian types of covered seams in use as well as the decorative types described. You're quite right from what I remember: linen ravels easily enough that IIRC linen seams were nearly always made so that the raw edges were hidden or stabilized. If they aren't stabilized, then seams are the first things to wear out and need repair. -Original Message- From: Ginni Morgan ginni.mor...@doj.ca.gov Sent: May 9, 2014 10:18 AM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise/Shift question I think Arnold covered this in Patterns of Fashion, but I could be wrong. I'm at work and all my costume books are packed up anyway. My guess is a small rolled hem on any cut edge. The openwork stitching that attached one piece of cloth to another needs something to anchor it that won't fray apart under strain. It is my understanding that the garments were often taken apart for washing and sunbleaching. Thus each piece would need to be finished. Ginni -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Liz H. Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 9:55 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Chemise/Shift question I'm sure sometime has answered this sometime over the years, but I can't seen to find it... In the 1480-1600 period of time, does anyone know how the edges of the cloth, or seams of under-tunics/shifts/shirts/chemises would have been finished? I figure that as they would have been the most often washed garment, something would have been done to help prevent the edges of the cloth from unraveling...but I haven't been able to figure out what, during that period of time. (Me, I either zigzag or whip-stitch the edges usually...but I'm wondering what would have been done *then*) Thanks! -Elisabeth/Liz ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 0 Chris Laning | clan...@igc.org + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stockings for 1917
Marion wrote: Where is a good link to buy the Amish cotton stockings? I'd try Gohn Brothers first. They're in Indiana -- their website is really rudimentary, but you can call them or write and ask for a catalog. Call Toll Free - (1-800-595-0031) P.O. Box 1110 Middlebury IN, 46540 It's entirely possible that the phone will be answered by an actual Gohn Brother if you call. They specialize in clothing and textiles for the Amish and Mennonites and their prices are very reasonable. They have been in business for over 100 years. Wonderful folks. 0 Chris Laning | clan...@igc.org + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Spelling Errors
On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:08 AM, Bobbie Kalben wrote: Can I request that you re-read your email for spelling errors before you hit send? There have been emails recently that have so many spelling errors that I have no idea what was intended. Thanks!! Re-reading one's email is always good. I've noticed a recent upsurge in spelling errors all over the Internet, which I think is due to the rather insistent auto-correct function on (at least) iPhones and iPads, which I haven't figured out how to turn off. It corrects words unless you specifically decline to make the correction, it's easy to miss when you're in a hurry, and the target you have to hit to decline the correction is very small. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ear-coverings and wimples
On Apr 4, 2012, at 4:48 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: On 4/4/2012 1:18 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: It almost looks as if the ear was added later, as it is much more red than her face. Well, it's covered with a veil, and the baby's ear is reddish too. But the Virgin's looks practically separate from her head, a bit too far to the left. I wonder if it *was* meant to evoke the idea of a sex organ! Both versions of the painting are considered to be, e, somewhat less than masterpieces of painting, I think. ;) No one seems to have decided exactly who painted either of them, as I mention in the article. It may just be that no one has gotten around to researching these paintings specifically. As you might imagine, I'm always a sucker for paintings of the Virgin Mary and the Infant Jesus playing with beads ;) OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ear-coverings and wimples
On Mar 23, 2012, at 5:20 PM, Maggie Halberg wrote: I think sometimes we try to apply too much they did this because to fashion. Can't something be worn because its thought to be becoming and fashionable in its time? Just look at how necklines go up and down. Why is it OK to have an open neckline in 1500 but not in 1600? Why do skirts go from being OK to show ankles in the 1830's to dresses being floor length again in the 1860's? Why wear tall cone shaped hats in the 1400's? Why the tall hairstyles in the 1700's? Why the large drum shape skirts in the 1600's and a bustle shape in the late 19th century. Its simply all because the fashions changed. People tweeked what was being worn until it got to the point where it looked like something else. Perhaps something was being done and the daring new fashion was to do it the opposite way. I agree. The human is a storytelling animal -- we have an instinctive drive to find patterns -- so it's easy to understand why such explanations are so popular. But human behavior does not always have logical reasons behind it. Sometimes something is fashionable just because everyone thinks it's fashionable. That said, it's also true that there are periods when you rarely see a woman's ears exposed. Some time periods seem to count covering a woman's ears as part of the cover your head imperative, other time periods seem to think a woman's head is respectably covered as long as all her hair is under wraps. I was particularly interested to find a painting of a veiled Virgin Mary where her veil is transparent enough that you can see her ears: http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2007/12/blessed-christmas.html (Sometimes it's amusing when I have made friends with someone at historical events, and then when I first see them in blue jeans and a T-shirt they look quite different because they have HAIR!! ;) OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] marking tools
Anahita wrote: I have not yet found the perfect tool for marking on white and other very light fabric. I sometimes use soft school kid's chalk in a somewhat darker color (i tend to use a medium blue), but i worry about it staining the fabric. I also sometimes use a very soft graphite pencil when i am certain the lines will be hidden by the stitching. Once when I was bored I did a marker test. I searched through my pen stash and then went out and bought one each of about 6 or 8 different brands of non-permanent fine-line felt-tip pens. In all I think I had about a dozen types. I took a piece of scrap muslin and marked it off into squares with a permanent marker. I labeled each square permanently with the name of one of the non-permanent markers, and then used that non-permanent marker to make X's, scribbles and so forth inside the labeled marked square. Then I tossed the whole thing in the wash. Based on this test, I would advise not even bothering with red and black -- they seem to be the hardest colors to get rid of. The greens and blues did much better. I did find one color and brand of pen that has served me very well over the years -- fine lines, easy to use, lasts for at least 10 years (both in the pen and on the fabric) and 100% comes out with one washing. It was a particular type of green Pilot Fineliner (not the permanent kind) and of course, since then they have discontinued that particular type. I bought about a dozen when I first discovered how good they were and I'm on about my last two or three. When those run out I'll have to do another test. ;) Also, for white marking on dark fabric, I found that Schwann Stabilo “Aquarellable” pencils, white only (color #8052) were the best of the lot. They do still need frequent sharpening, so they're better for sewing (where 1/32 of an inch matters less) than for embroidery. Most of the wash-out markers I've tested did well, especially ones sold for use in kindergartens. Likewise wash-out tempera paint for schools seems to be pretty good, though I haven't tried letting it sit for long periods. The pigments are too coarse to use in a pen, though. I wrote an article if anyone wants more details: http://wkneedle.bayrose.org/Articles/prick_pounce.html 0 Chris Laning | clan...@igc.org + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What costume-related gifts did you get?
I haven't received it yet, but I noticed that the Cosimo de Medici book has mysteriously disappeared from my Amazon wish list. I have a strong suspicion that it might turn up as a birthday gift, and since my birthday is the Third Day of Christmas, I think that counts. (I'm out of town, so any birthday gifts I'm getting are probably going to be waiting for me at home.) I also haven't bought the other half of my Christmas gift to myself yet: I've ordered The Queen's Servants, but not the sock blockers and blocking wires for my knitting. 0 Chris Laning | clan...@igc.org + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing today?
On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: So right now, poor Bessie Blunt is rather naked. But isn't that what she is most famous for? OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
-Original Message- From: Janyce Hill vpll.librar...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 14, 2011 11:29 AM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress) In later years the word sacque comes up freqently in the french fashion journals I have. Most often under the term dressing sacque or combing sacque. From the illustrations that are in the journals the dressing sacque is a long loose gown that falls from the shoulders, meant to be worn after undergarments are put on - but before the actual dress or other outer garment was put on. One supposes that if you were puttering around in your bedroom before finishing dressing - you'd slip one of these on. In the pictures that I looked at, they were all very plain and without embellishment - as opposed to dressing gowns which are highly embellished in the illustrations. The combing sacque is a garment that is only waist-length, and fastenes at the center front neckline. These are mostly plain, but sometimes have a little inserted lace or a yoke. According to the descriptions, they were meant to be put on after you were dressed, and while you were combing or brushing your hair. Their purpose seems to be to prevent shed hair from ending up on the clothing you were wearing out in public. I suspect that this usage (1890 - 1903) is probably derived from your older garments. Janyce Hill Vintage Pattern Lending Library www.vpll.org I don't offhand see any mention of what these sacques are made of. Are they white linen? If so, as a medievalist, of course my reflex would be to simply consider these as shirts, smocks or chemises -- the nearly universal innermost layer of medieval/renaissance underwear, and hence present in large quantities in most wardrobes. But I don't know enough about post-renaissance clothing to guess how late the fashion lasted for this type of undergarment. 0 Chris Laning | clan...@igc.org + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] some questions about renaissance,
In some danish inventory lists, which all are written in german (it was the language used then in Denmark) it is often mentioned with wide dresses and narrow dresses. If by renaissance you mean 16th century, then my first thought would be that a wide dress is made to go over a farthingale and a narrow dress is not (and would be worn with only petticoats). Welcome back! 0 Chris Laning | clan...@igc.org + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Costume con
On Jan 26, 2011, at 5:31 AM, Land of Oz wrote: On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:23:52 -0500 Stacey Dunleavy anastas...@gmail.com wrote: I'm coming out of lurkdom to ask; is anybody going to Costume Con? It's down the block from me this year, so I have no excuse. How is this not signed? Just because the name is at the top instead of at the bottom? shesssh. Some e-mail programs STILL (in this day age) do not show a Stacey Dunleavy wrote thing at the top of every message. Nor do they necessarily show in the header who something is from. My e-mail program has From, Subject, Date, To and Reply-to in the top of every message, but not all e-mail programs do that -- they may just show Subject and Date. Also, sometimes it only shows the e-mail address and not the name, and list members can't always remember that (for instance) clan...@igc.org is Chris Laning. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th c. blue jeans
On Nov 28, 2010, at 10:30 AM, albert...@aol.com wrote: Of course, what is this fabric we call denim? A heavy-ish cotton twill dyed indigo. It seems quite logical that an old and common weave used with a old and common dye would come up sooner than later. True. I think the other major distinguishing characteristic of what we call denim is that it has colored threads in one direction and white threads in the other. Offhand I don't know which is warp and which is weft, though. Anyone? And of course paintings can't tell us what fibers were used for this very jeans-like material. The fabric in the paintings could well have been either linen (which takes indigo dye pretty well) or wool (which you'd expect for outer garments). Although cotton certainly existed and was used (especially in Italy) I'd want to find out more about _how_ cotton was used before I'd conclude that this is identical to modern denim. Cotton thread strong enough to use for weaving is a different thing than cotton batting used for stuffing (for which I think we have better pre-1800s documentation). OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] how museums can help costumers
On Nov 10, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Julie wrote: One would be to know what they have and accurately and fully describe it. I see a lot of errors describing knit vs. crochet vs. other techniques. Then I think one of the most useful things a museum could do would be lots of photos and get some darned closeups. The pictures I looked at on the from the link you posted for the Smithsonian didn't have anything that wasn't full length - no details at all. OTOH, some pictures I've seen from the VA get so close I could chart the knit or beaded designs. I really appreciate that kind of information online since it's unlikely I'll ever get to go to the museum. Julie in Ramona Both of these, alas, pretty much boil down to questions of money. Museums are increasingly understaffed, and often can't spare the time for their curators to do much research on what something really is and how it should be labeled. Also, it means that the few curators they can hire often don't cover the full range of expertise they need for the things they have -- almost no fine arts museums have jewelry curators, for instance. A famous example from the Met has a curator of sculpture writing about a painting and getting the clothing description hilariously wrong because he doesn't understand surcotes. (Mirror of the Medieval World, painting of St. Clare of Assisi) Writing and correcting the catalog descriptions (either in the museum, online or both) is also time-consuming. Online photos are expensive both in terms of getting the photos taken in the first place (since it usually means hiring a professional photographer) and then in terms of processing and preparing them for the Web. I agree that the VA and some other museums are now beginning to do a truly splendid job of posting useful, detailed online photos of a few objects (sometimes even hundreds of objects) but not all museums feel they can afford to follow suit, or else simply don't have that as one of their priorities. (I know some interesting pieces that are now in a museum in Qatar, for instance, which has NO photos of items in their collection online yet.) It's often annoying to see something mislabeled on the Web (sprang mis- labeled as knitting, for instance). First, of course museums are not infallible: they can only use the knowledge they have. Second, sometimes a former opinion on what something is (made when knowledge was less) persists for a long time because either they can't find someone whose scholarship they trust to say otherwise, or again purely because no one on staff can spare the time to do the fixes. A recent example is an Islamic knitted cotton sock that is still labeled as probably coming from India, when that idea has been pretty thoroughly debunked within the last twenty years or so. Annoying as it is, sixty costumers writing in to a museum to say fix this, please is often not going to make a lot of difference. The problem is that museum staff can't know all the experts in all fields personally, so they have to rely on credentials to judge who is and who isn't giving them good advice. If you have a Ph.D. or published scholarly papers on Islamic textiles, for instance, they are likely to take your advice more seriously than if you are someone who has been studying and re-creating historical costume for thirty years. You may know just as much as the Ph.D., but the museum has no way to know who does and who doesn't know what they're talking about. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fingerloop braiding
On Oct 14, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Rachael Watcher wrote: Humm, fascinating. I never used one of the tools shown for finger braiding work. Just stuffed a loop into the existing loop then tightened. Rinse and repeat. I think I know what you're talking about -- is it this? http://www.boondoggleman.com/prj_butterfly_stitch.htm I'm happy to discover the term butterfly stitch for this, BTW, because I've never known what to call it. The problem here is that there are certainly many techniques that involve loops, and fingers, and produce a braid, that can be done without tools. Some -- but not all of them -- are what is now being called fingerloop braiding here. This is a technical term that was invented in the late 20th century to label a particular set of techniques like what Ginni was describing, involving loops held on the fingers (or if you're Japanese, across the palms of your hands) and passed through each other without tightening. I've seen butterfly stitch called fingerloop braiding, and it's kind of problematic, because it does involve fingers, loops and braiding. But it isn't really fingerloop braiding in the technical sense. http://fingerloop.org has lots of material on what's now being called fingerloop braiding. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Words for clothes (WAS: Re: I found my way back!)
On Oct 12, 2010, at 6:02 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote: Now here is another interesting use of a word for one's clothing and accouterments. Had to look up exactly what regalia means--I have of course seen it to mean one's trappings, outfit, etc. Its origin, though, which makes sense if one thinks about it, is the rights and privileges belong to a monarch or ruler. I referred to myself as a costume historian to a War of 1812 reenactor, and he insisted his outfit is clothing, not costume. Yet, among square dancers, the preferred term for the matching outfits worn by everyone on the committee of a national square dance convention is costume. Clothing, apparel, attire, costume, regalia--I guess it is like one's own personal name--one should use the term the individual (or group) prefers. However, one shouldn't be offended if a poor soul uses the wrong term because one doesn't know what that group prefers! And in the Society for Creative Anachronism it's garb. When people are talking about their medieval clothes, they are sometimes garb, sometimes simply clothes -- very few people call them a costume (at least in my hearing), although someone who makes such medieval clothes is usually a costumer. I prefer clothes, as do many of the people I hang out with, but garb is handy as a one-word term for the clothes I wear to SCA events, as opposed to the clothes I wear on other days. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Inventory of King Henry VIII
On Jul 30, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: Does anyone know what is the difference between: The Inventory of King Henry VIII: Textiles and Dress [Hardcover] Maria Hayward (Editor), Philip Ward (Editor) (Forthcoming) and The Inventory of King Henry VIII: Transcript of the Inventory (Studies in Medieval and Early Renaissance Art History, 23) [Hardcover] D. Starkey (Author, Editor), David Starkey (Editor) (1998) I believe this inventory was first envisioned as a 2- or 3-volume series, but only the first volume (the one by David Starkey) ever came out. Then it languished in some sort of author/publisher limbo for quite a while. (Apparently there was more than one problem causing delay and I've heard several different stories.) It sounds as though the forthcoming title (Hayward and Ward) may be the long-awaited second volume; if so, it's supposed to consist of essays and commentary on the raw material provided by the inventory records reproduced in the first volume. Very good news if so. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit OT
My family has a Masonic apron and sword that belonged to my great- great-grandfather (who was born in 1819). None of us are Masons, and we would eventually like to donate these to a museum or Masonic collection that would appreciate them. Anyone have suggestions for who to contact about finding them a good home? OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Splendors of the Renaissance photos
On Jun 2, 2010, at 5:12 PM, monica spence wrote: This is a copy of the outfit worn by Federigo Gonzaga C. 1529. I think they used what they had for the lace. I can't help noticing their reproduction is missing the rosary he wears around his neck ;) OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] copyright law thing...
Fran, it sounds like you are saying that legally there is no such thing as fair use. If that's not the case, could you explain what constitutes fair use? OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] questions
I can really only address one part of this. On Feb 2, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Julie wrote: 2. If I have to make my own hoops, where do you recommend I buy the hoop material? My first farthingale was sturdy cotton twill, and when it wore out, I made my second one of medium-weight linen. I try to use linen as much as possible because it breathes better than tightly woven cotton and also tends to last longer. I have actually used 1-inch steel lumber strapping, carefully straightened, for the hoops. If you have skirts of heavy velveteen or wool, modern bridal hoops are sometimes not strong enough to hold that weight of cloth properly. Best of all, it's usually free. The downsides are that it can rust if it gets wet a lot, and that it's rather heavy. If you are trying to minimize the physical weight of your 16th century clothing it's not the best choice. Do ask around a bit about how big to make your hoops -- especially if you're working to someone else's costume standards. Some of the Victorian hoops can get pretty big; the Elizabethan ones (at least according to the costume guidelines in my Renaissance guild!) are seldom more than about 90 to 120 around at the bottom. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] spray adhesives
On Jan 13, 2010, at 6:52 AM, Kim Baird wrote: The ONLY kind I like to use is Sulky KK2000. It is a temporary adhesive. Everything else, especially Sullivan's, is WAY TOO STICKY, and gets everywhere. It's expensive, so I stock up when there's a sale. Yes, TEMPORARY or RE-POSITIONABLE are the words to look for. It might be worth comparing prices of the adhesive sold for fabric with the temporary spray adhesives in an art department (i.e. near the paintbrushes and stuff) -- I've used a couple of different brands and they are very handy for glue-basting. As with glue sticks, I strongly suspect that they may change the packaging, label it as being for fabric, and jack up the price, but the contents are probably identical to what's sold for art purposes. BTW, the price difference between buying something from a specialized art store and from a crafts chain store like Michael's can also be pretty astonishing. As far as I can tell, these temporary adhesives seem to wash out of cloth completely, but I can't vouch for what will happen decades down the road. Just be sure you avoid the permanent kinds -- those are basically a spray version of rubber cement, and we all know what happens to *that* when it ages. I discovered these because I'm a graphic designer, and this is not the only art tool that carries over well into textile arts: my favorite marker for dark fabric is a Stabilo white watercolor pencil. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] spray adhesives
Forgot to add: yes, spray adhesive DOES get everywhere. Not something I would like to be breathing, either. I always do mine out on my front porch, with lots of newspaper around the thing I'm spraying. (Admittedly, living in California makes year-round front-porch spraying a lot more feasible...) Also: spray the back side of the small piece you are putting down, not the front side of the background. Seems like common sense to me, but I did have to point that out to my Mom once. I find this stuff really, really helpful for applique. It keeps everything nice and smooth while you are stitching it down. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Online dictionary of colors with color swatches
Online color guides are also useful if they contain named period colors, since there are quite a few color names that give the uninitiated *no* clue as to which part of the spectrum the color is in. I was a bit disappointed not to see either Dead Spaniard or Goose-turd green when I looked at the linked site. ;) For that sort of use, the colors don't have to be 100% precise, just close. I was interested to see that it did have Alice blue which is apparently a notoriously difficult shade to describe using words alone. I would think that this sort of color guide would also be useful for someone trying to describe the shade that quilters refer to as that Thirties green, which is quite distinctive once you see it, but which tends not to show up in modern color guides. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stabilizer/facing material [was:Re: s-t-i-f-f-en agent]
On Dec 12, 2009, at 5:23 AM, landofoz wrote: What I'm not *getting* is why it has to be stiffened at all. If it's an applique it's decorative and has no structural function, and not having a third layer of anything would make it easier to sew pearls on, wouldn't it? It's often difficult to get an appliqué to lie flat and smooth while you're trying to sew it down. The tension on the cloth must be absolutely even, otherwise you end up with wrinkles or ripples. This is especially true for any material that's slippery, such as silk, and that goes double if the fabric is thin or limp and slithery. Stiffening, pasting, or backing the fabric used for the appliqué pretty much eliminates the problem. (Pins don't work nearly as well -- at least for me -- because they create bumpy areas.) Quilt-makers doing piecework sometimes use basted-on or temporarily- glued-on papers to stabilize the edges of odd-shaped patches: for instance, the hexagons of a Grandmother's Flower Garden pattern are often done this way, especially in 19th-century pieces where the bits of cloth are difficult-to-handle fabrics such as velvets and silks. I would not be in the least surprised to discover more evidence that paper or parchment stabilizers may have been used for pieced work or appliqué in the Middle Ages and Renaissance as well. (We already know that parchment was used to stabilize the back of fabric when it was going to have heavy beading or metal thread on the front.) You can find quite a lot of little tricks to solve this problem in modern quilt-making literature, all of which are aimed at making sure that the edges of the appliqué are firmly turned under along a smooth line and that the fabric lies flat. Synthetic iron-on interfacing is often used, despite the fact that it does make the appliqué significantly harder to stitch through. (I helped hand-quilt a quilt where this was done, and it was a pain in the wrist.) Dissolve-away stabilizers, or simply starching the pieces also work -- but in my experience, not as well. Ironing the appliqué pieces onto freezer paper (which is plastic on one side) is another trick, with the advantage that if someone wants to go to the trouble later, the backing fabric under the appliqué can be slit open and the paper carefully removed. I've had a lot of trouble making appliqué look good, and I used to be a quilter, so that while there is of course great value in doing things the period way, personally I tend to shamelessly make use of non-period techniques that I learned from other quilters or from my graphic-arts profession. (Spray-on light-tack adhesive, for instance, is exceedingly helpful for basting, and in my experience it washes out pretty well. And I've been able to test a lot of white and colored marking pens/pencils to find ones that are easy to use, make a sharp line and wash out completely. If you don't mind using modern techniques, these can save a lot of headaches.) OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] s-t-i-f-f-e-n-i-n-g agent ;)
On Dec 11, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Alexandria Doyle wrote: Was this on a hanging or clothing? I wonder about having a piece of paper permanently inside of a component of the bodice If it's actually *paper* and not varnished or plasticized, it is unlikely to cause problems. When it's new, it may make the occasional crackling sound, but if it's in an area of the garment that moves and flexes a lot, that will soon go away. It will also soften up if it becomes damp (such as from perspiration) or gets cleaned. While paper tends to be denser than fabric, and thus doesn't necessarily breathe well, for a small area that's not likely to be important. And as it softens it becomes more breathable. And it's not NEARLY as bad as synthetics in this regard. If breathability is vital, you could spend some extra $$ and get the paper with regularly spaced little perforations all over it that is sold for scrapbooking and cross stitch on paper craft projects. An added bonus is that this is usually archive quality paper which means it's not going to turn yellow a few decades down the road and possibly stain a light colored fabric. (Or you could simply use 100% rag paper or other archival paper.) As for glue, IIRC wheat-paste glue seems to be what was used in the 16thc for pasting paper onto cloth (don't have a citation to hand but could possibly track one down if needed). The disadvantage is that it has a high enough water content to make paper warp and ripple. Modern white glue sticks, if I read the ingredients correctly, contain less water, but are casein-based, so otherwise not all that dissimilar to pre-1600 cheese glue. (It also, very conveniently, washes out.) If you're familiar with SCA resources, there was an issue of the Compleat Anachronist sometime within the last few years on period adhesives, available through the SCA website (http://www.sca.org/ca/). More than you probably actually wanted to know, but perhaps it may be helpful ;) OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Viking alternate history--14thC/15thC Vinland?
On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:18 AM, cbellfl...@aol.com wrote: Isn't that called Ramie? Ramie is in the nettle family, but a different species. I wonder whether bark-based fibers or pounded-bark cloth might have been possibilities. If Native Americans made cord (which I'm sure they did) then there must have been *some* sources of fiber available. Generally, though, bark-based fibers seem to be considerably harder to domesticate than animal-based or annual-plant-based fibers -- much slower growing, of course, and I suspect also more labor-intensive to prepare. (Although considering all you have to go through to get linen from flax, maybe I shouldn't say that!) I expect there are also hemp-like fibers available from some plant or other throughout most of North America, though it's an area I haven't researched. And the yucca relatives in dry areas certainly produce plenty of leaf fiber; I'm not sure how easy that is to extract. Don't forget also that while sheep and linen aren't native to the New World, cotton *is* -- not quite the same strains, but very close. I know it was used for both cordage and cloth in the Southwest. There's an Anasazi sock from circa 1200AD made from cotton, with fur caught in the plies of the cotton thread for (presumably) warmth. It is attached to a sole of plaited yucca leaves. That's a rather labor-intensive, but plausible way to use sheared fur, which (in the absence of our friends the sheep) tends to be too slippery to spin well. O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads +Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning clan...@igc.org http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Browned lace Edwardian? Collars
Wanda wrote: Being totally ignorant about lace... were they ever supposed to be white? The most beautiful three are ecru (?) or a coffee with lots of cream shade. I'm not silly enough to put them in a bleaching solution. I thought putting them out in the sunlight maybe? If you decide you'd like to see if they will become whiter, and you have a suitable patch of healthy green grass where they won't be disturbed (by wind, humans or beasts ;) you could try dampening them and laying them out on the grass on a sunny day. Supposedly the combination of sunlight, moisture and the chlorophyll in the grass can provide a very gentle bleaching action. (I've never tried it, but so says the tradition...) 0 Chris Laning | clan...@igc.org + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking for a tubular bag frame...
On Jan 27, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Pierre Sandy Pettinger wrote: www.ghees.com carries a 16 tubular bag frame. I couldn't find anything bigger. Perhaps if you contact them they can point you elsewhere. It might be worthwhile checking out your local thrift stores to see whether there's a bag with a frame you can re-use. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stockings query
On Nov 28, 2008, at 6:46 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: In some sets of instructions for knitting period stockings, you are told to fold the heel flap in half. I'm a fairly experienced knitter, but I can't make sense of this. Can anyone advise? I assume it means to fold the flap edge-to-edge rather than to double it back on itself. I actually teach beginning knitters this heel, because not only is it period for before 1600, it's easy to see how it works. Getting a tube of knitting to turn through a right angle is pretty mysterious if you try to imagine how to do it. If you'd like to see pictures, I have these: http://chrisknit.blogspot.com/2007/12/pre-literate-stockings.html There's also a link on that page to download the pattern I wrote. It's for worsted-weight yarn, so it makes rather a heavy stocking, but I wrote it that way because I wanted beginning stocking knitters to be able to finish something more quickly. If anyone else wants to try the pattern, BTW, I'd welcome beta testers and feedback. (So far, the main problem people seem to have is if they need to size it up for stouter legs. I can see I'm going to have to work on that) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need costume calendar
I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses the late, great Medieval Women calendars. :( I think I still have most of the ones I bought, though they're a bit big and awkward to store. Methinks someone could probably make a tidy profit by doing somethng like that again! OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women's costume late 13thC
On Nov 13, 2008, at 9:02 AM, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: Note the cut of the sideless surcote and the minimal headcovering (a ribbon?). On the page 93 detail, note the fur lined cloak and what appears to be buttons down the front bodice (buttons are shown along the sleeves of the GFD underneath in both images). Some form of closure would be required on both, given the high neckline. In both surcotes are what appear to be slits for hands and a full gore set into the front. Late 13thc (1200s) I think is a bit early for anything that would really be characterized as a GFD (Gothic Fitted Dress). My understanding is that the trend from baggy, roomy tunics toward more closely fitted clothing has really just gotten started at this point, and that the only really close fit is in the lower sleeves (to probably over-generalize wildly). I actually think you can see in the first of the two illustrations that there is quite a bit of roominess still in the shoulders and upper sleeves of the blue garment worn under the red surcoat. I wear clothing from this century often, so I like to explain that at this time there had begun to be a creeping trend toward a closer fit -- which began at the wrist, but by my era (1270s-1290s) it had only progressed as far as the elbow! I then go on to summarize (humorously) Robin Netherton's theory of the evolution of the GFD by explaining that the sinister trend toward a closer fit* started at the wrist, crept up the arm, and then overtook the armhole (thus making a closer fit across the shoulders possible -- while still allowing you to move your arms). In the next stage, a front opening with lacing was invented, which allows you to closely fit the rest of the torso down to the waist and hips, while still letting you get into and out of the dress (since you don't have to pull it on over your head any more!) My own inclination is to start describing it as a Gothic Fitted Dress only when it gets to the point of closely fitting through the torso -- because that's where you start to see the interesting way the gown shapes and supports the body, which loose tunics certainly never did. (*Granted, it's only a sinister trend if you follow the lead of some churchmen of the time and decry closely fitted clothing as too revealing and sinful!) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Devil's Cloth
On Nov 5, 2008, at 8:20 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: On Wednesday 05 November 2008 10:50:26 am Chiara Francesca wrote: It is a book: http://www.google.com/books?id=qc2jyomYg7oCdq=devils +clothpg=PP1ots=emkB FeV_Zhsource=bnsig=VJs6xhhIxQLADRN2c9yzRkLTFwY It is the history of stripes on cloth. Very cool book. It has an almost cult following. :) I can't imagine why; it has a rather low information to anecdote ratio, in my opinion. Michel Pastoureau is a very entertaining writer. I have _Devil's Cloth_ and another one of his (_Blue: The History of a Color_) which has some huge and lovely photos in it. He's also written a very good little introductory paperback on the history of heraldry -- I used to keep an extra copy or two around to give to people who were just starting to become interested in the subject. Great photos in that one too. But I agree, I wouldn't consider either book as an unquestionable source of historical information. He has a tendency to pick out particularly entertaining bits and talk about them, rather than considering the entire sweep of the evidence. I'm also told that the Blue book demonstrates that he's either not aware of, or is ignoring, some of the more recent and important evidence on the history of color concepts and color words (or so said the cognitive linguist who gave it to me). That's a pretty serious failing for a book that purports to be about the history of the concept blue. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] French titles - Mediaeval costume and textiles
On Nov 1, 2008, at 3:40 AM, Viv Watkins wrote: You might be interested in this book - although it covers a much wider period it has a good mediaeval section. I bought myself a copy of Rayures. une histoire et des tissus rayes because the illustrations were excellent and struggled through enough of the French to get the basic idea. I was then thrilled to find that a translation had been done The Devil's Cloth: A History of Stripes and Striped Fabric - much smaller book, far fewer illustrations and in black and white - I think the complete text but my French is really not good enough to say for sure. The French title is - Rayures: Une histoire des rayures et des tissus rayes by Michel Pastoureau ISBN 2020236664. Publisher Seuil (1995). It is out of print but Amazon has one copy available in the USA at £15.26. The translation is - The Devil's Cloth: A History of Stripes and Striped Fabric (European Perspectives: A Series in Social Thought and Cultural Criticism) ISBN 0231123663 . Columbia University Press (2001). Amazon has plenty of copies starting from £7.99. Michel Pastoureau is a very entertaining writer, but tends to be a bit how shall I say this flamboyant? about some of what he says. I have a couple of his books, including _Blue: The History of a Color_ and right at the very beginning it contains some passages that appear to demonstrate that he either is not aware of, or is deliberately ignoring, some of the significant research on the cognitive history of color concepts (or so says the scholar who gave it to me). OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] book is confirmed!!!
I was mildly amused when I got my e-mail notice a day or two ago. Usually I buy things from Amazon USA (since that's where I live) and the notice says Your Amazon order has shipped. This notice (from Amazon UK) instead said that it had been dispatched!! Wonder if that means it will arrive faster? grin 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Corsetry issues (was Looking for bad examples)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, sorry to be Devil's advocate; I know some people claim a medical problem when they just don't want to wear a certain thing, and it's not up to someone else to insist they can. But what about people who can't take the pressure of stays / corset? What are they to do? Which makes me curious. What actual medical issues have people encountered that really _do_ mean someone can't wear a corset? I'm sure it does happen -- and it seems to me that having some idea of what really are the issues that cause problems might help dressmakers decide whether to (1) attempt to exercise more tactful persuasion, (2) devise some sort of work-around, or (3) do the best they can to make a nice looking garment without corsetry. Offhand, I can think of two issues where any kind of corsetry or stiffening can be a problem. One is for people in wheelchairs: if they are to wear a corset at all, it must need to be designed for sitting rather than standing, and I can imagine that for someone whow has limited mobility anyway, not being able to bend freely at the waist could make some necessary movements very difficult. I also have a friend who finds that a normal 16th-century corset and fitted gown cause too much of the weight of the skirt to be carried by her hips and lower back, which she finds very painful. She does much better with something where most of the weight of the dress hangs from the shoulders (loose gowns, for instance, although she can also wear a fitted gown with a few bones but not a full corset). In her case, the medical problem is nerve damage. Others? 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tatting before 1600?
On Sep 2, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Julie Tamura wrote: Thank you all for your answers. You reinforced what I thought I knew/remembered...it's out of our period. I've saved your messages and will used when challenged again G It sounds to me as though several stories got confused together and came out as one g. Chaucer is often cited (incorrectly, I think) as an early source for blackwork; needle tatting does seem to appear at least as early as shuttle tatting if not earlier (but not in Chaucer ;) and as others have explained, fishing nets do use knots. Put 'em all together and you get what you heard g. A lot of word-of- mouth history seems to travel this way. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Setting color question
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have some dark red linen that I would like to use, but I want to wash it first. My local fabric store usually carries a product called Retayne but they have been out of it for a while. It's a color fixative for cotton fabrics according to the label and is used in hot water. I've been using it on linen with good results. What can I use instead? Someone at the fabric store suggested white vinegar, but she was not sure of the water temperature or amounts. I would like to wash the linen in warm/hot water, if possible, to allow it to shrink before I use it. I'll be doing it in the machine, since it is about six yards. White vinegar is helpful _during_ the dyeing process for some dyes, but IMHO it doesn't do any good afterward -- it's helpful in dyeing when the acidity of the dyebath makes the dye take better. Nonetheless, it's widely recommended as a method of fixing dye and there are people who swear by it. My science education leads me to be very skeptical, though ;) Your best bet is probably mail/internet order: I know Dharma Trading used to stock both the brand-name Retayne and their own generic version, and their service is quite fast and competent. Some commercial detergents do contain small amounts of something comparable -- they generally advertise on the box that they help keep colors fast. I've always relied on my little bottle of Retayne, so I don't know how well they work. If you need something quickly and don't mind paying inflated prices for a couple of laundry loads' worth, the Rit dye company sells (or used to sell) a color fixer right there on the rack with their little dye packages. It's actually just Retayne, packaged in a little one-washer-load envelope, but you can sometimes find it in areas where there aren't a lot of specialized stores that would stock Retayne any other way. It might be called Run Away if my memory isn't playing tricks on me, but if you find it, read the box to be sure that's what it does. In general, quilters are good people to ask about dye and marking questions, since when you sew little bits of various colored fabrics together on a routine basis, you encounter these problems a _lot_ grin. There also exists a detergent called Synthropol which I think of (incorrectly) as the opposite of Retayne -- Synthropol is pretty effective at removing dye that has run onto somewhere it is *NOT* supposed to be (as when all your underwear comes out of the washer pink...). It does not fix the dye that is already attached to fibers: what it does is to remove any dye that is just hanging around in the cloth and _not_ firmly attached. Good luck: reds tend to be among the more difficult colors to keep where you want them ;) 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] general fitting questions .........How I'd try to fix it.....
Dawn wrote: I am going to go with the gusset idea, as it will allow me to salvage this piece (even if I could find more of the silk fabric, it was $35 a yard) as I hate the idea of wasting what's gone into it so far. When I make this again, and I'm sure I will, I will be making more substantial changes to the pattern itself. For when you're working on the muslin for the next one: One common cause of not being able to raise your arms high enough is when the armhole is (somewhat paradoxically) cut too BIG. A bigger armhole with a lower bottom curve actually translates into LESS freedom of motion, not more, as you would think. This is because as you move your arm upward, the low meeting point of sleeve and body under the arm means the sleeve quickly begins to transfer the pull upward onto the body fabric -- which can't really move upward very far if it's at all closely fitted or confined at the waist. A higher meeting point means you can raise your arm further before it starts to pull. I know I've made this mistake ;) Try raising the bottom line of the armhole to make a smaller hole and see if that makes a difference. (Of course, there are practical limits here, you don't want the armhole so small it binds or feels tight. But pattern companies, who have to make a pattern that attempts to fit all body shapes, often do rather large armholes to accommodate people who have heavy upper arms, and that simply doesn't fit everyone else correctly.) 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question regarding career path
I wrote: If you set your sights low, you are likely to fall into some career traps, by which I mean careers that look appealing, but where you really have to fight hard to get the wages and the respect you deserve. Custom dress- making is one -- many people have made a success out of it, but as I think this list can testify, many wind up working long hours for very little money, because customers often think they should get Yves Saint-Laurent clothes for sweatshop prices. Theater costuming is another place where we've heard a lot on this list about lack of respect, impossible expectations from management, no budget, unpredictable crises and low wages. I know there are good shops, but you have to look for them and be firm about what you will and will not accept. Just to clarify, before I start a flame war: I don't at all mean that these are somehow lower careers! Many people have been very successful at them. What I mean is, if you set your sights low, AND you get into one of these fields, you are likely to have problems -- as others can testify -- if your low expectations lead you to accept pay that's too low and treatment that isn't good enough for how good YOU are. _That_ is the trap to avoid. You ARE good, but you have to believe it. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking for Amsterdam museums events
On Jul 26, 2008, at 4:05 PM, monica spence wrote: The Rijksmuseum (Rembrandt Museum) and Anne Frank's house are both must-see places in Amseredam. Also-- anyplace that sells chocolate and baked goods. However, beware of the damage to your waistline! Is the Rijksmuseum open again yet? Most of it (like 90%) was shut down for renovation when I was there in March. All they have open is one wing with a highlights of the collection exhibit, which I didn't bother with because I want to go back sometime when I can see more. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egyptian beaded dress
Sylvia wrote: I had been thinking of crocheting, but I really don't want to have to macrame a dress either. That's why I asked if anyone had come across a netted fabric that would work. I know that nylon net is way too weak. Yes, my chief concern would be finding a way to attach or hang the beads that was *strong enough.* That many beads are going to be *very* heavy, and I'd be afraid that even sewing them onto linen fabric would not be strong enough. I would guess that the original beads were threaded onto the actual string from which the net was made. If you do find some fishnet (1 inch squares or something like that) I'd suggest threading the beads on something strong and also sewing them individually to the strings of the net (i.e. sew through each bead, not just over the string they are threaded on). Of course, if you aren't particularly looking for durability, this becomes less important and you do have more alternatives (many of which will be less work). I don't know whether Gillian Vogelsang-Eastwood's book on Pharaonic clothing addresses this type of garment, but that might be a good source to check. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Someone interesting studying classical clothing
Anyone seen this? http://tinyurl.com/55zagc OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tie on pockets, dating correction
Lauren wrote: This may be stupid, but -- aren't their pocket *slits* in some of the Herjolfsnes/Greenland finds? Which would suggest underlying pockets 13th century, even though they don't show up in paintings. It certainly seems likely that pocket slits are to provide access to *something* hidden under the outer layer of garments, and the common thought is that in at least some cases, that something is some sort of self-contained pocket or pouch (i.e. not sewn into the seam as is the case with modern pockets) that is hung from some sort of waist tie or belt. What *form* that pouch takes, however, is less certain -- since we generally don't get to see it g. The surviving 17th-18th century pockets seem to be flat, closed at the top and with a slit or opened seam partway down one side, giving access to the contents. On the other hand, when we get to see earlier pouches (such as in a painting where someone has lifted up the outer layer to display them) they seem to be simple drawstring bags with the opening at the top. Same principle, different shapes. I'd certainly consider it very plausible, for a lot of medieval and renaissance contexts, to make one or two of the drawstring type of pouch, hang it/them from a ribbon tied around my waist, and wear them under a top layer with pocket slits. I'd be more doubtful about the plausibility of the later, flat style of hanging pocket in contexts before about 1600. (Though I haven't looked at the Spanish example yet.) OTOH, I can testify that the later style is certainly easier to get one's hand into when you can't see what you're doing so practicality might win in that case. (I have a farthingaleI made with a two-piece adjustable waistband, and it has side openings from the waist down to about thigh level. I sewed a pair of just this sort of flat pockets into the lower part of the openings, so they hang down *inside* the hoops. There are corresponding pocket slits in the outer gown. Very practical to keep a bulky wallet, keys and checkbook in, and they don't show at all -- but I don't have any historical justification for it, just practicality.) 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] crochet 18th C
On May 7, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bonnie Booker wrote: I think you are right. There has been mention from 16th c. of Queen Elizabeth's favorite cauls being made of chains. Could this have been done the same? There were crochets and hooks counted in Queen Mary's belongings when she returned to the court of Henry VIII. Then there is a cope in a Spanish museum they say is trimmed in crochet. It seems strange these things keep popping up but everyone says crochet didn't exist until the 19th century. Maybe it just wasn't the fad until then. Santina Levey says in _Lace: A History_ that there is a braid used as trimming mentioned in the 16th century (1580s) Earl of Leicester's inventory that she thinks is chain stitch made with a hook -- but she doesn't say *why* she came to that conclusion. Caul headdresses may have been trimmed with something similarly chain- like, but all the cauls I've seen have turned out to be made of solid fabric with diamond-shapes embroidered or couched onto the surface; they are not open hairnets in this era, or if they are, they are made in netting and always lined with fabric. Unfortunately, most of the supposed identifications of crocheted trim or crochet hooks earlier than at least the mid-1700s have turned out to be flawed when examined closely. The hooks and crotchets in Queen Mary's wardrobe are a classic example -- once you see them, you realize that they are dress hooks, used for fastening the opening to a dress (like modern hoks and eyes, only bigger) or for looping up portions of the skirt. They are basically a little flat rectangle of metal with a bent-metal hook that is more or less semi-circular in shape -- the modern item they remind me of is a cup hook (for hanging cups in a cupboard. We have surviving examples still attached to garments that demonstrate clearly how they were used. As I've said, I'm quite willing to believe Bjarne's example may be chain stitches and attachments made with a hook; I'm not dead set against there being crochet in the 18th century. But I see so many people jumping to conclusions from incomplete evidence that my initial response to most such suggestions is extreme skepticism until someone shows me really good evidence -- which it looks like Bjarne's example is. Yay for that! Really, I do understand why people keep trying to find crochet earlier. But we have so many examples of new things originating suddenly and then becoming fads in a very short time -- even in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, when we don't usually think that of that happening -- that I don't see any need to think crochet was around for any length of time before it caught on. My favorite example of a quick fad is, in fact, the rosary, which originated in more or less its present form around 1470: an amazing 100,000 people from all over Europe joined rosary confraternities in just seven years, from 1475 to 1481. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] crochet 18th C
Carol wrote: Back to crochet -- yes, the simple chains and such were around in the 18th century. Some of the cords on military drums are chained rope. The reason for the no crochet pronouncement is that some people want to use crocheted lace for 18th century. The explosion of lace patterns occurred in the 19th century. There are a number of different lace making techniques, many done to look like another type at various times throughout history. Tatting to look like needle lace, etc. Find the artifact for the era, copy the artifact. Depending on the level of accuracy desired, a pair of crocheted doilies may not work for engageantes. I wouldn't use the chaining on fly fringe to justify using them. I'd also be curious whether the museum specifically knows that the crochet on this piece is original, or whether it could have been added a bit later forgive my skeptical reflex here, please! It certainly _could_ be original if it's just chains and fastenings. I'd also like to see a photo, if Bjarne has a way to post it. It may be important to know exactly what this looks like. The more evidence we have of what early crochet _was_ like, the better equipped we are to say what it _wasn't_ like (granny squares, lace edgings, zigzag afghansg). I'm convinced, personally, that bobbin lace was invented as a faster and easier substitute for needle-made lace, which is very, very slow. And then tape lace was invented as a faster and easier substitute for bobbin lace; crocheted lace was invented as a faster and easier substitute for bobbin and tape laces, machine-made lace as a substitute for crocheted lace, chemically-dissolved lace as a substitute for machine-made lace grin Of course, this is an *extremely* over-simplified view, but I think there's some truth in it. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] book lust G
Julie wrote: I ran into a copy of Moda de Firenze (the Italian Renaissance costuming book) at a Ren Faire this weekend. I was all set to add it to my collection but was shocked at the price. The last time I looked it was going for about $80 U.S. \Yesterday it was priced at $148. Has this book really gone up that much in a year or two? Is there another less costly vendor? IIRC, what's out there now is a 2nd printing. Publishers seem to feel quite free to jack the price up when something is much more popular than they expected (as I think this was, and this definitely happened with QEWU) and they go into another printing when they didn't originally expect to. (To be fair, this may also have to do with having to gear up the press again, which may have gotten more expensive to run in the meantime, perhaps having to re-create some of the production files if they didn't save them, the increasing price of paper and so forth. It's not *just* the temptation of more profits...) 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
These experiences suggest that both designers and directors would be happier in the end if, whatever the expectations are, they were *written down* and agreed on ahead of time. A designer might not be completely happy, but both designer and director might be far less *stressed* to know ahead of time that, for instance, the leading lady gets to dictate her own colors and will provide her own undergarments. (The designer is of course free to think Victorian corset for Shakespeare? Ha! in the privacy of his or her own mind) I'm sure the collective mind can cheerfully provide a list of common things that go wrong if anyone wants to write up guidelines for what might be useful in such an agreement ;) (That is, if there isn't already such a thing available...) Flaky employees who don't meet deadlines, however are endemic in all ines of work and are really another matter. That's a matter of someone not meeting the terms of something they already HAVE agreed to. Community theater directors may just be more out of luck on this than most people because they so often don't have anyone else they can really turn to if the costumer flakes out. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] understanding paintings of Saints
On Feb 22, 2008, at 5:27 AM, Mary + Doug Piero Carey wrote: There is a very interesting book called _The Square Halo and other Mysteries of Western Art: images and the stories that inspired them_ by Sallie Fisher. I'll second that endorsement. A delightful book and very useful: it explains a _lot_ of cryptic scenes in medieval paintings, and does so with a sense of humor. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bad books:
On Feb 22, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Exstock wrote: - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some of those books really are not that bad. ... Although most of the books listed date from the 40's to the 70's and have been out of print for decades, they still show up and can be useful sources. Along those lines, as I am busy spending scads of time looking for wills inventories on Google books, I'd like to make sure that people don't get confused and think that everything written on historical matters during the era of Bad Costuming Books is worthless. People in the 19th century seemed to have a positive mania for transcribing very useful historical documents. They did indeed, and it's a great help. I would never say *all* Victorian sources were bad; it's more complicated than that. Although any Victorian source needs to be checked out -- and we should be doing that anyway. I think the problem is mainly that Victorian writers on the Middle Ages and Renaissance were very, very confident. They were *certain* that they could look at a fragmentary, incomplete artifact and restore it to what it looked like when it was new. They also seem to have been fairly relaxed about generalzing from very few examples. Modern researchers are much more cautious, and try to question their own biases and to not make any assumptions beforehand. I'd still say not reliable is a good starting assumption when looking at Victorian sources, but that doesn't make them useless. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
On Feb 21, 2008, at 4:51 AM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: If you're planning to cover up to 1600 and not just 1500-1600, you might consider expanding your talk to include discussion of 14th and 15th-century images of saints. Robin Netherton is the expert here, but I do a little version of Jeff Foxworthy's you might be a redneck if that I call they might be a saint if in my Costume History class. Images of saints are particularly common in these centuries in Italy and the Low Countries, though they appear elsewhere as well. They tend to be wearing fanciful and/or imaginary clothing, and for some reason modern people looking for research always seem to zoom in on them. For instance, Robin is fond of pointing out that elaborately decorated or jeweled bands along the hemline are usually confined to queens, saints, angels and other people who don't have to worry about getting their hems dirty. ;) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Glowing review of *Medieval Clothing Textiles 2* ( TMR 08.02.19 )
medieval studies newsletters. Nevertheless the editors have kept the level of scholarship admirably high, particularly in the methods and interdisciplinary approaches used in the present volume, which bodes well for the future of the journal. Notes: 1. DISTAFF is Discussion, Interpretation, and Study of Textile Arts, Fabrics, and Fashion. While many of the papers come from the sessions at Leeds and Kalamazoo, papers are peer-reviewed by an editorial board and some are submitted without first having been identified through the conferences. iMedieval Clothing and Textiles/i, vol. 2, ed. Robin Netherton and Gale R. Owen-Crocker (Woodbridge: Boydell Press, 2006), xiii. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Finding information
Justine wrote: ...That is my second problem as a costumer, scholarly research. Aside from going onto websites and reading in timeline books where all the information is already researched and digested for others to read, which is my main source of learning, where do you find this stuff? The only thing I have thought of is to go to a library but than I wonder, where to begin digging deep into the collection to find original sources of info. First, you can always ask on this and other mailing lists. If you explain what types of things, centuries and geographic areas you're looking for, there will probably be lots of people who can give you book and article titles as a place to start. The more specific you can be, the better. You can also ask whether a particular book is considered to be a good one -- Iris Peacock's costume books, for instance, are not. With regards to libraries, you're on the right track. There is *much* more information available in book form than online (and it's often easier to tell whether the information is any good). People who teach research classes now have to hammer it into their students' heads that the Internet is *not* your best or only source for serious research. The bigger the library, the better the chances of it having useful material; university and college libraries are often the best place to start, especially if you don't live in a big city (big-city libraries are often good, too). Most university libraries are open to anyone who wants to walk in and look at things, and you can generally photocopy things even if you can't take them out. My local public university has a Friends of the Library program and I've had a card through them for years that lets me take out up to 10 books. The way I always start when researching a new area is to look up the call numbers (whatever system your library uses) for a few books in the right general subject area (in your case, historical clothing). A reference librarian can almost always help you with such a search, and many libraries now have their catalogs online. It doesn't much matter exactly which titles you start with. Step 2 is to go to the section of the shelves where those books are, and start looking at everything on the shelf that looks interesting or relevant. Pick out the ones where it looks as though the authors are basing what they say on actual research (i.e. probably _not_ So-and-so's Book of Quick'n'Easy Stage Costumes ;). Step 3 (and this is the key!) is to turn to the back of the book and read the BIBLIOGRAPHY. This will list the books and papers the authors used for reference. *This* is the important section to photocopy, because now you can go looking for any of _those_ books and articles that look relevant. Find those and repeat the process ;) One of the best sources of information on the nitty-gritty details of clothing is articles published in professional journals in history. The most practical way to discover which articles to look for is to get the references from someone else's bibliography. Again a reference librarian can help you sort out the cryptic note in the bibliography that says something like J. Hist. Text. 48:3-39 (I made that one up). Bound copies of the journal may be available in the library or on microfilm, even if they're not near the main bookshelf you started with. Of course, you will very soon begin to find books and articles that sound absolutely fascinating but that the library doesn't have. Inter-library loan is your friend here. You can generally ILL a specific book through your public library, although some library systems do this much better and more quickly than others (and some have to charge for the service, though most don't). Hope this helps -- ask more questions anytime. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mari to the white courtesy phone
(answered privately) On Feb 19, 2008, at 4:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Mari Alexander on this list? Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Viking Women's Dress - New Discoveries
On Feb 12, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about this on the Norsefolk_2 list. Here is an image of her reconstruction: see bottom of http://www.uu.se/press/pm.php?id=48 http://www.newsdesk.se/pressroom/uu/image/view/pm_vikingakvinna1-5825 I won't exactly say that Norse costume experts on other mailing lists seem to be laughing themselves into stitches over this. but... There are certainly some aspects of it that don't look very practical, such as the train. Also, as someone on another list pointed out, generally costume found in one place and time will show some sort of evolutionary relationships to the costume of other, similar places at the same time, before and afterward. But I'm not aware of anything remotely like this anywhere in northern Europe (disclaimer: but then, I'm hardly an expert) To me, it would seem much more plausible that the placement of garment parts reconstructed here is the result of subsidence in the graves from which the originals came, rather than that they were actually worn that way. There is certainly merit in challenging the established applecart of wisdom about how things were done, just to be sure no one is getting too complacent or thinks that we know everything. But some challenges have a lot of plausible reasoning and evidence behind them, and others, well, don't. (I recently ran across someone who claims that French, Italian and Spanish all descended from Modern English, and that Latin never existed as a living language, it was merely scribal shorthand. Definitely one of the more far-out attempts to re-think established wisdom, and apparently without much in the way of evidence either.. http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/ 005394.html#more) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Prayer beads conference in Leiden March 27th
I've been meaning to mention for some time that I've been honored with an invitation to speak at a one-day conference on prayer beads in March. (I will candidly admit that my initial reaction is along the lines of Lawk a-mercy me: this is none of I! -- a Mother Goose reference. I am of course tremendously flattered that someone considers me an expert, but me? really? I shall have to make a good effort at it now.) The conference is on the history and role of prayer beads in different cultures and communities, and it's on 27th March at Leiden University (in the Netherlands). It's sponsored by the Textile Research Centrehttp://home.tiscali.nl/willemvogelsang/ homepage.htm, a 17-year-old project currently under the wing of the National Museum of Ethnology, but hoping for its own home soon. This all started when the Centre's Director, Dr. Gillian Vogelsang- Eastwood, who specializes in Near Eastern textiles and dress, started searching for more information for a small exhibition on prayer beads from around the world she was planning for this summer, and found my Paternosters blog. The exhibit has expanded into a full- fledged intercultural project, and there's no end in sight: the conference is one result. The list of topics and speakers seems to be fairly firm at this point (it's on the TRC website), and as you can see, it is very wide-ranging: Hindu iconography and prayer beads, Dr. Ellen Raven, Leiden University Tibetan Buddhist prayer beads, Dr. Henk Blezer, Leiden University Korean shaman prayer beads, Prof. Boudewijn Walraven, Leiden University Japanese Buddhist prayer beads, Dr. Andreas Marks Orthodox Christian prayer beads, Dr. Karel Innemée, Leiden University A history of Catholic rosaries, Ms. Chris Laning, Independent scholar, USA Prayer beads from medieval and post-medieval excavations in Eindhoven, ca. 1225-1900, Nico Arte, Eindhoven Archeological Centre Protestant attitudes to prayer beads, Dr. Anneke Mooi, Leiden University Prayer beads and medieval Arab/Persian sources, Dr. Asghar Seyed- Gohrab, Leiden University Modern Islamic prayer beads, Mr. Yusuf Alan, Rotterdam Neo-Pagan prayer beads, Dr. Gillian Vogelsang-Eastwood, TRC, Leiden How we are going to fit all that into one day I don't know! I'm particularly interested to see two speakers on the Islamic prayer bead tradition. It's a subject on which very little information seems to be available, especially on its early history. One possible reason seems to be that many of the cultural studies in Islam that would concern themselves with such artifacts are regional rather than pan- Islamic. I look forward to hearing what the speakers have to say. American that I am, I'm of course particularly excited to be invited to speak in Europe, and since the conference coincides with my Easter break, I will have about ten days before the conference to travel around. Besides sightseeing and museums, I hope to see many historical paternoster beads and take many pictures! Most of the places I'm going will be new to me, including Cologne (Köln), Nuremburg, Regensburg, and possibly Konstanz. I've been in both Amsterdam and Munich once before, but that was thirty-mumble years ago and I hardly remember any of it. As for the conference, I would of course be delighted to meet anyone there who reads this, so do please introduce yourself. You can find more information on the TRC's prayer beads project at http:// home.tiscali.nl/willemvogelsang/prayer%20beads.html, and on the conference itself at http://home.tiscali.nl/willemvogelsang/prayer% 20bead%20workshop.html, including where to write in order to register. This is turning out to be a delightful instance of it's a small world, since I had actually encountered Dr. Vogelsang-Eastwood once before: a good friend of mine has raved about her book on Pharaonic Egyptian clothing, which is excellent. Not the sort of thing you'd expect to combine with an interest in rosaries! OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Found it! - Colored shirts in the 16th century?
Sharon wrote: At 6:55 AM -0700 1/18/08, Saragrace Knauf wrote: Ah Ha! http://www.museothyssen.org/thyssen_ing/coleccion/obras_ficha_zoom605.html I suppose one could argue this isn't a shirt, but I've never seen an under dress with this kind of cuff... The portrait shows the garment as being lined, however -- or magically blue on the outside and red on the inside. Whatever it is, I really don't think this is persuasive evidence for colored underwear (shirts). To me, the clincher is that you *can* see a shirt or partlet in the front gap of the gown, at and below the neckline -- and it's white, just as one would expect. There's no sign of the blue-and-red garment in that front opening, which to me says that it must be open all the way down the front. I've never seen a cuff like that on an underdress either, but I'd be more willing to accept that it's an undergown with odd cuffs than a shirt that is open all the way to the waist :). 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Copyright AGAIN (WAS: Re: looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe)
On Dec 26, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Althea Turner wrote: Hello Ruth, Would this not fall under fair use? I would like a copy of a particular page for academic reasons. I'm not asking for the whole book and I don't intend to post the page on the web. It's seems counter-productive to not allow academic use of published materials, especially in light of the extremely high price of the book. Althea On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:13:30 -, Ruth Bean wrote Unless Wicked Frau has access to one of the very rare original copies of Alcega, surely there's a copyright issue involved here. Certainly in most of Europe, and I assume in the USA too, there is no right to offer and distribute copyright material freely to others without permission, even if supplied without charge. We have not authorised any display of Alcega patterns on line either. Please, can we not get into THAT discussion again here? I am not the list moderator, but.. About every three to six months on this list, someone asks about sharing copies of something, and it leads into an extended exchange of conflicting, passionate posts about what exactly the copyright laws DO say, what they SHOULD say, what's right, what's wrong, what's fair and unfair, legal and illegal. and it can go on for weeks. Of course we are always getting new people on the list (welcome, new people!) who haven't been through one of these yet, so it's quite understandable that the topic will be brought up from time to time. But I hope that before discussing this yet again, people will first re-read the previous discussions in the archives. The most recent one was in October 2007, I think. You can search this list's archives at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ The only drawback to this search site is that it only searches message headers, not text, and threads about copyright often don't have that in the subject header. I *think* most of the October discussion was in a thread called costume photos. Or go directly to the October archive here and search on copyright: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/hcos07/10hcos07.cl I, personally, would make a mild suggestion that anyone who wants to correspond about sharing or copying information would do well to send their e-mails on the subject directly to other list members, rather than to the list as a whole. In most e-mail programs it's fairly easy to control what address appears in the To: line. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Frobisuit (WAS: Busy making holiday gifts?)
On Nov 23, 2007, at 10:24 AM, zelda crusher wrote: Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:23:25 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busy making holiday gifts? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Then Ansel wants a new Frobisuit for Bristol next year A what? My guess would be that Bristol = Bristol Renaissance Faire Frobi = Sir Martin Frobisher (if I'm remembering the name right) suit = outfit Good guess? O Christian Ashley, gentlewoman to Lady Stafford + Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Guild of St. George, Northern California http://paternosters.blogspot.com - http://paternoster-row.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help finding a painting
On Oct 23, 2007, at 6:23 AM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: This is not directly clothing related but does anybody know where I can find a painting that shows the visitation (the bit in the bible where Mary visits Elizabeth) with a sort of x-ray view where you can see both the unborn babies (Jesus and John the Baptist) on their mothers stomachs. From memory it's 14th or 15th century Italian and I think one mother is wearing pink and the other blue but I may be mistaken. I was talking to a friend about it but without an artist or reasonably unique title a google image search didn't turn up anything useful. To bring this back to clothing, I think it would be fun to recreate the painting by painting or printing a picture of a baby onto a dress. Fortunately or unfortunately for you, there is not just one such painting -- it's a fairly common theme. However, my favorite is the one I made a LOLsaints picture out of it's here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/claning/1057360496/in/ set-72157601285300832/ (P.S. Safe for work, but not for the humorless :) Now that I look at that one again, it's one of the type where only one infant, the future John the Baptist, is actually shown. I do have at least one that shows both infants. Aha! It's from REALonline http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/realonline/ which is an excellent image source for paintings, sculpture, et cetera in Austria. Go there, select Bildthema from the drop-down menu, and search on Heimsuchung Mariens (without the quotes) and you will get well over 100 Visitation paintings when you click on Zeige Bilder (see pictures). The one I have in mind is their picture number (Bildnummern) #000225. A direct link to just the picture is: http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7000108.JPG The information on the main site (which uses frames) says as follows: Tempera on wood, wing panel of an altar. Artist unknown, Upper Austria, 1490-1500. Now in the collection of Krems Cathedral, Austria. Aha, here's another one: http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ images/7001442.JPG Another altar wing panel, tempera on wood, by the Master of the Pfarrwerfener Altar, probably painted in Salzburg around 1425-1430. Now in the Museum Carolino Augusteum in Salzburg. There's an interesting book stand in this one too: a detail is at http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7001444.JPG Others I saw in a quick run-through: http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7013861.JPG or picture #012952 Each lady has a gold oval on her belly and I think I can see images of babies in both. http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7013000.JPG or picture #012305 This one's especially interesting, with the two babies seemingly kneeling in the air in front of their mothers. http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7006475.JPG or picture #008153 (I am sorely tempted to caption this one MY halo is bigger than YOUR halo...) http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7006314.JPG or picture #004678 This one just has gold stars on both ladies' bellies. And there are at least a couple more. The one I made into a LOLsaints icon is also from REALonline, picture #000907 Direct link: http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7002773.JPG Yet another altar wing panel, in tempera on wood by Konrad von Friesach of Kärnten, 1450-1460. Have fun! OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help finding a painting
On Oct 23, 2007, at 2:34 PM, Helen Pinto wrote: The painting is The Meeting of Mary and Elisabeth by Max Reichlich, Austrian, ca 1513. It's up on Web Gallery of Art. I was interested in the jug and the beverage flask, but the fetuses doing the meet-and-greet between the pregnant bellies are what made the picture really memorable... I have to admit, it's the only one I've seen where it looks like the babies are giving each other high-fives! OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT: ISO scan of a Morris tapestry
I'm looking for someone who has a better picture than I do of the 19th-century tapestry from Morris Co. called Adoration of the Magi (designed by E. Burne-Jones). All the pictures I can find on the Internet are tiny (400 pixels or so) and all the details of the original are invisible. I need a better look at this, so if anyone has a book with a better picture in it, I'd love to hear about it. This was one of the most popular Morris tapestries, so I know there are examples out there and some of them have probably featured in books. TIA OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Paternoster beads: medieval dress accessory
For anyone interested who hasn't already heard about it, my booklet Bedes Byddyng: Medieval Rosaries and Paternoster Beads has been published (finally!) as issue #135 of the Compleat Anachronist (an SCA quarterly). It's available at $4.50 per copy at: https:// secure.sca.org/cgi-bin/stockclerk/ca.html (Go to page 14 of the site and scroll down) This is a short introduction to the history of rosary beads (mostly Christian ones), along with a look at the social history: what materials were used for beads, threads and accessories; numbers and significance of beads; how rosaries were made, sold, worn, and used; and a few pointers on how to tell whether a string of beads is a rosary or not. There is also an appendix with full instructions on making a rather generic set of medieval-style beads. It was stressful to write, but satisfying. I hadn't seen it since I turned in the manuscript six months ago, and I am now grimacing over the usual quota of typos, formatting mistakes and bits of authorial disorganization that made it into the printed version. I'll do better next time: but I'm happy to have it to offer. I'd be interested in anyone's comments (on or off list) once you've read it. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re:[ h-cost] Costume photos
On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But you'll have a very hard time getting ANY published material copied at Kinko's. Ten years or so ago they were the subject of a big copyright-violation suit because they were helping/encouraging faculty to make their own textbooks with photocopied materials, and neither the faculty nor Kinko's pursued the necessary permissions. Since then, Kinko's has been DEFINITELY once burned, twice shy with copying. Some years ago I wanted to make little thank-you cards for my TWELFTH NIGHT cast, and since we had danced a lavolta as our curtain call I wanted to put Queen Elizabeth I Dancing with Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester on the front of the card. For that I needed (lacking a color scanner and a color printer at home) a color photocopy of the paintingand the counterperson at Kinko's WOULD NOT PERMIT me to make a tiny copy for this innocuous purpose. Even UNpublished material: My truelove had to photocopy the rough draft of a repair manual he was writing, to ship it to the company he was writing it for--and that Kinko's counterperson, seeing technical drawings bearing the company's name, refused to copy it for him without a written release from the company. The conscientious counter person at Kinko's once tried to refuse me permission to make multiple copies of MY OWN WORK because it had a copyright notice on it. I eventually convinced the manager that it was okay, but I was quite amused. :) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: Standard American Diet
And from the other end of the spectrum... My grandmother was raised in the south before we knew some of the things we know now about nutrition, fat, etc. Nutritionists refer to the Standard American Diet as SAD for more reasons than one.. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan Dressing Jackets
On Sep 24, 2007, at 6:38 AM, Catherine Kinsey wrote: I finally found it on the web site: snip Accession number: 43.243 Again they only show the back of it, and in this lighting you can't see how magnificently metallic it is. The museum now dates it to 1610-1615. I wonder if they disproved the connection to Elizabeth I, who died in 1603. Unlikely, I'd think. Barring the discovery of new documents, a connection with a famous person is pretty difficult either to prove or to disprove. The date says about, which I would guess means they are probably fairly confident about which quarter of the 17th century it's from, and maybe the decade, but wouldn't want to narrow it down too much beyond that without some more research. The MFA Boston actually has a pretty decent textiles collection, but for a long time they had NO gallery space allotted to it, and even now there is only one textiles gallery. So most of the collection sits in storage. They do, however, make it fairly easy to purchase a good photo of many of their items, even if they're not on display. There might also be someone in the Boston area on this list who'd be interested in taking a closer look at it. (I'm only in that area for a couple of days twice a year or so, visiting my Dad.) In my experience, if you have a good reason to want to see something close up, you can usually make an appointment to see something backstage and take photos for your own private use. (You still probably won't be able to touch things -- a staff member will be with you, though, so things can be turned over for you to see both sides.) This type of jacket (obviously) is not knitted, but the MFA also does have several knitted jackets from about the same time period. If anyone's in the Yahoo [HistoricKnit] group, my photos of three of the knitted jackets from the MFA are in a photo album called jackets there. (That's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/ ) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women?
Heather Rose Jones will probably chime in on this one if she sees it -- she gave a presentation on exactly this issue at Kalamazoo a couple of years ago (and has just submitted a paper version for a future _Medieval Clothing and Textiles_). Basically, what I think she winds up saying is that virtually all the pictorial examples of women wearing braies in medieval Western Europe turn out to fit into one of two themes: (1) mythical women such as the Amazon warrior queen Penthisilea; or (2) who wears the pants in the family arguments between women and men. Neither one of these seems intended as a realistic picture of what women actually wore. (Heather, did I summarize this correctly?) 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Blackwork in Lady in Green
On Aug 30, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Frau Anna Bleucher wrote: In the 16th Century, many blackwork designs were created to display a different pattern on the reverse side. I expect this is an example of this work. To duplicate without learning the specific stitch pattern, two layers will be required. In this case, considering that one side of the embroidery is arabesques -- a curling leaf and vine pattern -- and the other side is a simple diamond grid, I think two layers of cloth is a more likely explanation. These patterns have such completely different structure that I can't think of any way that working one on one side of the cloth could produce the other pattern on the other side. Most, if not all, of the blackwork patterns I've seen that do have different sides are pure counted-thread double running stitch. They are not this kind of flowing, curvy line thing, which was more likely worked in stem stitch or other line stitches. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] King Tut exhibit (WAS: More Comments: Costume Content)
On Aug 21, 2007, at 9:08 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: The King Tut exhibit in Philadelphia in mid Sept. Has anyone been to it? I would like to know if it is worth the trip. I was going to see the exhibit in Florida when it was there. A friend told my sister that this tour was not that good. I would like some feedback from someone who has seen it in PA, CA, or FL. Co-workers of mine who went to see it were disappointed, mostly (I gathered) because they hadn't realized beforehand that some of the most spectacular artifacts stayed home this time, such as the famous gold mask. Reading between the lines, though, it sounded pretty interesting to me as long as you go with an open mind and don't assume it's necessarily designed for maximum splash like previous Tut exhibits. (Old armchair Egyptophile speaking here.) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: batiste weight linen
Someone wrote: Once upon a time there was a discussion on batiste weight linen and a source was posted. I thought I saved the URL but I can't find it in my link files. Could someone with the link please post it and post (if you remember) the name of that type of linen as I know it isn't batiste. The discussion I remember began when Julian Wilson (Hi, Julian!) mentioned that he had bought some batiste to make banners with from a local supplier on (Old) Jersey. Lots of us got very excited. Upon investigation, however, it turned out to be cotton rather than linen, IIRC. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
On May 5, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork? Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? Hi, Robin! g Some, but NOT all, historical blackwork is reversible (same on both sides). The idea that ALL blackwork is supposed to be completely reversible is an artifact of the 20th century embroidery revival. 2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate blackwork in particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is about 1400. I know there is also a tradition of Japanese silk embroidery that is identical on both sides, but I don't know how old that is. And probably not relevant :) 3. Can anyone point me to a published source that would document the use of such a two right sides technique to a medieval artifact? IIRC, most of the evidence that it existed is from paintings, which as we all know, may or may not represent reality accurately. I'll e-mail you off list with more info OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] was thread on spools in Eliz England?
On Apr 23, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Rebecca Schmitt wrote: OK, here's the question: I work at a Renn Faire, and would like to be able to do some handsewing, most likely linen shirts for my child. I don't want to have my plastic spools of thread flashing about! How did Elizabethans work with thread? Was it wound on spools (wooden, I assume)? Was it somehow put into hanks (like modern-day floss)? How can I make my thread look right? The best 16th-century images I've been able to find seem to have thread/yarn either (1) wound into little balls, kept in a box, or (2) wound around something small, rectangular and flat (no indication of what it is, since the images are little details in the corners of paintings...) I would guess that sewing thread might have been sold in hanks, but I really don't know. I am fairly sure that silk embroidery thread was, and flat thread winders have been suggested as a plausible way to wind off part of a hank of silk so you could cut lengths to work with. You might find these articles helpful -- though I'll warn you, while you see a lot of the needlebooks shown here (on the project page in this issue) at Renaissance Faires, the documentation for them is not terribly good. They show up in re-drawings by Herbert Norris, who often (but not always) had good sources for what he showed, but never tells you where he found things :( http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/filum/Filum_28_workbox.pdf OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com a.k.a. O Christian Ashley, gentlewoman to Lady Stafford + Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Guild of St. George, Northern California http://paternosters.blogspot.com - http://paternoster-row.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE:hippie pants-suit vs. Corduroy pants-suit
My mom, who went to a fair number of professional conferences, thought pants suits were the greatest thing since permanent press, and wore them with enthusiasm. She told me that at one conference (sometime in the late 70s I think), a couple of nice ladies took her aside and told her that really, you know, it wasn't the Done Thing to _always_ wear pants suits. After all, people might think she was a gasp! Lesbian. Being happily married since 1943 and the mother of four, my mom thought this was hysterically funny! OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1960s-70s School Dress Codes
On Mar 29, 2007, at 1:37 AM, Penny Ladnier wrote: My students have been asking some really good questions. These questions I only know the answers from personal experience. I lived in Mississippi at the time and do not know if we were really far behind fashion or not. If you answer these questions, please let me know your location and the app. year you remember these fashions were worn to public elementary through high school: 1. Mini-skirts: Girl's skirt lengths were measured 2. Girls' pants: When were girls' allowed to wear pants to school. Pants-suits, hiphuggers? 3. Boys' Hair: Allowed to wear long hair 4. Boy's mustaches: When allowed Newton, Massachusetts, mid to late 1960s -- 1. I never saw anyone actually measuring skirts, but I know there was a rule. It may have been something like an inch or two above the knee. 2. Girls could not wear pants for any reason, any time. If it was freezing cold, they could wear pants under their skirts for the walk to school, but had to take them off when they got there. About the only allowed form of leg-covering was tights (which I always hated). And of course, tights were frequently un-cool. My mom said she used to see groups of girls going by on their way to the local junior high school in the winters (snow on the streets, etc.) with short skirts and bare legs that were bright red from the cold. She said she always felt like rushing out and offering them blankets or something. 3. I never paid attention to the rules for boys, but I know some were wearing hair that was considered long in those days -- though it wouldn't be considered long now. I was also much amused when midi skirts and granny dresses came into fashion, and one of my classmates got into trouble for wearing a skirt that was too LONG (a granny dress, in her case). How they rationalized that I have NO idea! I suppose it fell into the category of too distracting. - Interestingly, these are still battlegrounds in some places. The school I work for is a Catholic private school for girls, and they have always worn uniforms. The current rule is that uniform skirts are supposed to be no more than 3 inches above the knee, but of course in a group of fashion conscious young women, who are also at the stage where they're growing like weeds, this is difficult to maintain. Students have been threatened with all sorts of dire punishments if they are caught rolling their waistbands to make their skirts shorter, but in general, enforcement is pretty slack, confined to announced days two or three times a year. Few of the faculty are interested in doing anything about it. This may change next year, as the new principal-to-be is probably the faculty member who's cared the most about the dress code. There are rumors the rule may be changed to 2 inches above the knee rather than 3, and I expect more enforcement. Until this year, pants have only been allowed by special exemption to the few students we have whose families are Muslim (whose definition of modest dress includes having legs covered). This year, by radical innovation, students could wear pants during the winter, and some did; but they had to be the official uniform pants, which are on the expensive side. Requests by students for the option of wearing pants are frequent, but always blocked by faculty who feel they are unprofessional looking unless they are the tailored uniform pants. Our students don't feel this is fair, especially since the other Catholic high schools in town that include girls _do_ allow pants. (For the one that requires uniforms, they must be a particular color of Dockers.) The faculty who object claim that if pants were allowed, it would be too difficult to define which pants were OK and which were too tight, too low-slung, or too baggy and gang-like. It will be interesting to see what happens :) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sarnen Robe? Chris Lanning - was Punches for cloth.
Saragrace wrote: Chris, what is the Sarnen Robe on your site? I've mentioned this page before (probably the last time Bjarne brought this up, in fact...) http://claning.home.igc.org/bezants/bezants.htm I've used metal leather-punching tools with pretty good results. It's a robe belonging to a famous statue of the Infant Jesus, which is located in Sarnen, near Lake Lucerne in Switzerland. Legend says that the deep red silk of the garment was from a dress given by Queen Agnes of Hungary in 1318. Many religious statues have been given richly decorated ???robes??? like these in which they may be clothed for special festivals There's a photo here: http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/stars_spangles_studs.html And also some more details of making one's own bezants with leather stamping tools: http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/make_bezants.html (tooting my own horn, herem, with apologies...) 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Punches for cloth, was Re: [h-cost] re; Wizard
Just be sure your paillette-maker uses sturdy enough plates if you're going to use it on metal. I know folks who have tried to use the scrapbooking type of plastic-plate sort of thing, designed for paper, on lightweight metal, and the plastic gets mashed flat in about three passes no fun. I've mentioned this page before (probably the last time Bjarne brought this up, in fact...) http://claning.home.igc.org/bezants/bezants.htm I've used metal leather-punching tools with pretty good results. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Belle Armoire
Fran wrote: Does anyone on h-costume subscribe to this magazine? I don't subscribe, but I pick it up occasionally as eye candy when I'm in the right mood. I am somewhat interested but divided. I'd be interested if they were showing sort of vintage looks, the kind of thing people put together out of the good parts of several pieces of damaged vintage clothing and trims. Is that what this magazine is mostly about, or not? Not. Or not exactly. It's about various sorts of creative things one can do with clothing, but original vintage clothing rarely enters into the process. You _might_ find some of what you're looking for in it -- it's not my area of interest, so I may miss things that would interest you. But on the whole, creative tends to win out over nostalgic in the project department. Sometimes projects are deliberately aged to look old -- but history has little to do with the process, other than as inspiration. The issue currently in my bathroom has articles on poly-clay jewelry, covered matchbox purses that look vaguely Japanese, crocheted hats embellished with all sorts of sparkly stuff, and I forget what else. Other issues have had articles on painting T-shirts, a covered-shoe challenge (not necessarily practical but more along the embellish creatively line), and various dyed, painted, pieced, pleated and otherwise embellished garments. Also, how much do the projects depend on the use of rubber stamps, as the publisher seems to focus a lot on those in their other magazines? They show up in maybe one project per issue, and not always that. Dyes, paints and poly clay are always big, though. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] sequins and spangles
At 9:44 AM -0500 2/3/07, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: I know that we have discussed this in the past but cannot remember a referrance or definition. In 18th C. embroidery, what is the difference between spangles and sequins used for additional embellishment. I have been reading the Mackenzie text for the Wade collection at Snowshill and she shows embroidery samples that use both in the same illustration. I am preparing a major part of my Collection for auction and have several pieces of elaborate embellishment that I am trying to describe. Also, Re the composition of sequins, besides gel, what might they have been formed from before 1930? Don't know whether this would help, since it's several centuries before your period, but there's a brief discussion of the medieval equivalent at: http://claning.home.igc.org/bezants/bezants.htm -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] h-cost] What's your dressmaker dummy wearing and sewing affliction
At 3:03 PM -0500 12/5/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 05/12/2006 19:04:35 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've thought about that a lot. I think I have a severe fear of making that initial cut into virgin fabric. Anyone else suffer from this? completely - with expensive or hard to get fabric. I once shared a house with a friend who made her living as a seamstress. She said she got a lot of business from brides who started out intending to make their own dresses, but chickened out when it came to cutting the expensive fabric... -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Jeans (WAS: illustrator vs fashion historian)
Every so often the conversation comes around to a point where I feel like mentioning again Drea Leed's hilarious little essay on 21st-century superwide jeans -- a paper (to be) given at the CXII Interplanetary Costume Collegium, 2543 A.D. Her excellent Elizabethan Costuming site has moved since the last time I tried to access this article, and it isn't mentioned anywhere on her index page. But -- acting on a hunch of what its address might be -- I was delighted to find that presto! It's still there, right along with the rest of the site. It can now be found at: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/superwides.htm Enjoy. evil grin -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: OT: LJ/ blogspot/Yahoo360 etc.
Fran wrote: Not everyone has a strong need for social support/approval. I agree that's what many blogs seem to be for, it just holds no interest for me personally. I have two: one LiveJournal, for miscellaneous ramblings on how I'm doing personally, and another on Blogspot, which is for articles related to my research. The LiveJournal one I started mostly because several of my friends are on LJ, and it seemed like a good place to put the occasional blather about weather in the Central Valley, the health of my cat, what I saw on my trip to England this year, and other stuff that would mostly be of interest to family and close friends. It's a way of letting that small audience know how I'm doing without having to write each one individually. The Paternosters blog (http://paternosters.blogspot.com) is something I started to force myself to sit down and WRITE about my research on the history of rosary beads. For about a year and a half I was producing one to two articles a week; it got sidetracked somehow after my England trip this spring and I haven't gotten back to it, but I certainly have not run out of things to talk about. I find that writing gives me more ideas about things to research and write about, and I've learned a lot in the process. I like it also because it's somewhere to post the answers to FAQs and anything else I want to make available, and yet it's simple to maintain just by sitting down and typing something; I don't have to create or configure entire Web pages to hold the information. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Judging costume contest? Help!
Tania wrote: What I've seen that works well for the public is to have someone announce that the contest is about to begin and that anyone interested should come up to stage. You can either have appointed judges or do the winner(s) by crowd applause. If you're worried about hurting someones feelings you can always have some sort of side prize such as most imaginative. Hope this helps. I like this, because it requires people to step forward if they DO want to compete. Since this is a _competition_, their stepping forward means (hopefully) that they are prepared for the possibility that they might not be chosen as the winner -- which minimizes possible hurt feelings. I'd also suggest that having some small token for everyone who enters would be very nice -- something as small as a pretty bar of soap or a fresh rose. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help - velveteen colour running
At 12:03 AM +1000 6/25/06, Beth Schoenberg wrote: Have you tried Runaway? I believe Woolworth's and Coles sells it, and possibly also Kmart. It worked when we had a red-running problem on the huge baronial banner for Politarchopolis, which I believe you may have seen once or twice. Runaway is the same chemical as Retayne, except that it's packaged in one-laundry-load doses at a much inflated price :( If you think you'll ever have trouble with colors running again, it's worth it to buy a bottle of Retayne. Dharma Trading carries it if you're in the USA -- Googling on the brand name should get you whatever local sources you need. Stores that sell cloth dyes ought to carry it. Synthropol is also an excellent investment. I've seen it in art supply stores and (of course) Dharma Trading. My recommendation is to wash your item with Retayne first to fix as much of the dye as possible. Vinegar is often mentioned as a dye fixer, but actually it works a lot better in the initial dyeing process than later, and often doesn't do much for an already-dyed object. After that, then wash it in Synthropol to remove any dye that isn't firmly fastened onto the fabric. Crocking or the rubbing off of dye onto whatever it's touching is unfortunately a problem with a lot of heavily dyed items. Reds and blacks (wouldn't you know!) tend to be among the worst dyes for staying put where you want them. Hope this helps -- -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] silver foil tape for Paillons?
On Jun 22, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: In recreating materials found in 18th century embroidery, i thoaght i might could use this for shaped spangels or Paillons as they were called. These were cut from silver plates, and often vernished in different shining collours. I would like to try it. Does any of you know this material? Is it hard to cut out, can you use an ordinary scissors? I am in need of some cut like a flower with 5 leaves. Also how would you make the holes for sewing? Hi Bjarne -- Yes, I'm on this list, and here's the information on my experiments making paillettes or bezants: A short report and a couple of photos of my first efforts (and a very nice medieval original!): http://claning.home.igc.org/bezants/bezants.htm Here are the articles I wrote for our local Needleworkers' Guild newsletter: http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/stars_spangles_studs.html http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/make_bezants.html http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/bezants_decorating.html I am going to be teaching two classes on making bezants in July (sorry, Bjarne, they're in California! :) so I've been looking for a less expensive source of metal. Both of the Internet addresses in the Make your own Bezants article seem to have what I need, in both gold (brass) color and silver (aluminum) color. Of course they are both in the USA, but perhaps you can print out the information and look for other places that have the same thing. This stuff is really easy to use -- you can cut it with ordinary scissors and make holes with an ordinary large sewing needle. Good luck! 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] bezants
Bjarne wrote: Did you make that flower with 5 leaves on the bottom photograph of this site: http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/make_bezants.html Yes, I did. Is it possible to cut out the outer layer of the foil, so that you only get the flower? Yes, with patience and a pair of sharp scissors. Of course, you will need to use a pair of scissors that you do not want to use for cutting cloth after you use them on the metal :) Is there a chance i could buy such a stamp from you? I think i could use that on the steel foil i baught today. What i like is the shape, and the 5 flower leaves, matches very nice to the shape i am after. I am not completely sure whether this stamp will work well on steel. It is made of metal, but it is designed for stamping leather, and will wear out more quickly if it is used on metal. I have had good results using it on brass, however. If your steel is as soft as my 36-gauge (0.13 mm) sheet brass, it should be fine. You can buy this stamp (and many others) from Tandy Leather at: http://www.tandyleather.com/products.asp?dept=410 I don't know whether they will ship things to people outside the USA, but I expect so. If you have problems ordering from them, let me know off-list and I'll arrange something. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hancock Fabrics
I actually don't see much difference where I am in the inventories carried by Hancock's, Jo-Ann's and the fabric sections of Beverlee's. All of them are now about half-and-half fabric and crafts. While each of them has some things the others don't, that means they are in _more_ direct competition than ever before. That doesn't bode well for all of the chains surviving. I went into the local Hancock's lately (about four blocks from where I work -- not the one on Florin Road) and noticed that they now have a certain number of prime seasonal fabrics up front -- silks, crepes and so forth -- and then the rest of the fabric section is all flat folded or discounted fabrics. That's not a good sign either but I like the store because it's been run locally by a very nice group of staff and a manager who's both friendly and competent. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
Robin wrote: I rather wish that Dan Brown had picked a saint who wasn't quite so central to costume study. Say, Mary of Egypt. snerk snicker I can just see it now. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
At 6:22 PM -0400 4/23/06, Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: ... everything blends together into the look of Yore. That's why hennins, for example, seem to be appropriate headgear for The Merry Wives of Windsor?!?!?! etc. Thank you for a very useful term! Yore it is. On Apr 23, 2006, at 5:44 PM, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: The more I learn about the entertainment industry, the clearer it becomes that accuracy is more an advertising buzz-word (used to attract audiences) than something truly pursued. That is, it is far more important to persuasively _claim_ accuracy than to actually _be_ accurate. (I'm know there are exceptions among individuals who work in these industries -- but in the industry as a whole...) Besides, it's a lot easier and cheaper to just *claim* it than to actually *do* even a half-decent job of it. At 6:50 PM -0700 4/21/06, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: I agree- the leading lady was SO out of period. I kept thinking one hat looked more like it belonged in Breakfast at Tiffany's. The costumes bothered me more than the music. Leading Lady Syndrome -- the Big Name Star playing the leading lady more or less gets to wear whatever she wants, even if that means it's wildly different from what everyone else is wearing. Often this means no corset, low necklines, clingy fabrics, modern hairstyles whatever _she_ thinks makes her look sexy. sigh -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mouldy linen/dyed linen
in places, but the item as a whole looked fine and was usable. Hope these things help. -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fascinating: oldest evidence for needle binding
At 8:43 AM -0700 4/21/06, Chris wrote: Forgot...I was completely blown away by the plaids they've found as well...reminds me of the Stewart 'hunting' plaid, but regardless, it's absolutely BEAUTIFUL!!! Wait until you see it! Yes, and of course the news media immediately seized on this and started speculating about Celtic peoples in central Asia snort. You don't have to be Celtic to weave plaid fabric. Or wear it. Or anything it's just what happens naturally when you have repeating color patterns in your warp and weft... -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Quick lace question
Being the first to have the book handy and a few minutes to type. the very first sentence of Chapter 1 of THE classic reference, Santina Levey's _Lace: A History_, says: During the two decades 1560 to 1580, lace became an increasingly important feature of fashionable dress in most European countries, and this development can be traced in contemporary records and in the portraits of the period. She goes on to say that decorative crimped and goffered EDGES appear in the _15th_ century, in the same places we would expect to find lace some decades later -- but they are merely a laundry technique and not needlework of any kind. In the late 15th and early 16th centuries we can see decorative edges that _do_ involve needlework of some kind on the edges of veils, and at the necks and wrists of smocks and shirts. These edges were created with embroidery (oversewing and buttonhole stitch), beads, seed pearls or applied cords. Many of these edge decorations were carried out in colored silk or metal thread, a fact which has tended to obscure their links with later linen laces. The earliest record of some sort of trimming made with bobbins is 1476, by the ladies of the household of Eleanor d'Este, but it's almost certainly a cord, since the account book says ...cordella facto a piombino There was no moment, she says, at which any of the above techniques either changed into or were replaced by lace. Gradually, however, during the second quarter of the sixteenth century, changing tastes in trimmings and embroidery resulted in the exaggeration of certain effects: in particular, greater emphasis was placed on decorated seams and edgings Needle and bobbin lace began to emerge in response to these demands, but it was a long time before they were seen to have become separated from the older techniques... Indeed, one of the clearest indications of the newness of lace is its lack of a name that is wholly its own. As for possible early dates for metallic lace, ...Although, therefore, fifteenth-century references to 'lace', such as the mantle lace worn by Richard III at his coronation in 1485, really refer to cords and braids, it is possible that some of the later references to 'passementerie' may refer to early bobbin laceThe 'Pasmens of gold' and 'passmeyn riband' worn respectively by Mary I and Edward VI were certainly braids, but the more explicitly described 'Passmeyn lace of bone work of gold' mentioned in the Lord Chamberlain's Accounts for 1553 was bobbin lace. (She gives a footnote for this conclusion, but doesn't justify it further. She goes on to describe a white silver bone lace of 1560 and 6 white smocks edged with white needle lace in 1558-9.) That help? -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
At 10:40 AM -0600 3/5/06, Betsy Marshall wrote: My information is that dry cleaning helps preserve the fabric treatments used by the manufacturer- either fabric or clothing processes; so fabric of wool, linen, silk or combinations thereof, _can_ be washed, just be prepared for the size/hand/texture to change. (Personally I toss it all in the washer on cold and let the chips, er, scraps fall where they may.) My philosophy is to give the finished garment a cleaning treatment that's one step gentler than the washing I gave the fabric before I cut it out. I pretty much machine wash all yardage as soon as I get it home and the edges zigzagged. This has worked a lot better for some things than others. I've not had any problems with linen or silk, but I've learned to be more careful about wool, especially about tumble drying it. I had a wool Elizabethan gown (and I can now boast that it was custom-made for me by Margo -- yes, THAT Margo, of Margo's patterns g) and she washed my wool yardage on hot, _three_ times before she cut it out. And I washed it on cold and dried it on barely lukewarm, and it DID shrink, almost three inches in length after half a dozen washings. :( -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] books
At 8:27 PM -0500 2/24/06, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: On Friday 24 February 2006 8:05 pm, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: I have been cataloging my reference collection on librarything. Using what for time? When I retire, maybe. I'm also a LibraryThing fan, though I did maybe two batches of books a while ago and haven't gotten back to it. The great thing about it is that it DOESN'T take much time because you don't have to enter ALL the information on 99% of the books. It will look them up for you! All I've needed to type in is the titles, and it pulls them right up. I do plan to back up the list on my own computer once it bears some resemblance to my actual library -- I haven't been systematic about it. It sounds like it will be in a format that I'll be able to import into FileMaker (or MS Access) so I'll have my own database. Since I hate having to look up and type ALL the information about a book every @#$%! time I cite it, this site is _wonderful_. -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Embroidery dating
This sounds really exciting. What an experience to be able to see and handle such stuff! . and am I the only one in a peculiar mood today, or did anyone else look at the subject line and think, Embroidery dating -- how to help your embroidery find its perfect soul mate? I think it's entirely too close to Valentine's Day 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Style, Nostalgic Needle, Sharon Cohen
At 5:46 PM -0500 1/30/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with Ann. I used Safari on a Mac OS X and it was fine--pages loaded very quickly. The colors were quite nice for me, and the design of the pages was clear and consistent. I liked the stitch listings (is there really a stitch called bukkion, though? I'd have thought bullion, but I'm not an advanced student of embroidery! Order and contact information are really needed for this appetizing presentation. Yes, I think a bit of copy-editing is needed in a few places. I think I noticed splender (for splendor), acron (for acorn), and The inspiration for this sampler are... I gather that these kits are not available from the website directly? If they are, ordering info is definitely needed. If not, a link to some retailers who carry them would be much appreciated. -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Gifts for Brits
Thanks, everyone, for all the suggestions! Also, I was talking to a friend on Friday who mentioned she's had great success bringing over packages of Jelly Bellies jelly beans. She says you can't get them in Britain (and they actually are quite good). Apropos of Hogwarts, I've seen Jelly Bellies packages of Bertie Bott's Every Flavor beans -- though they thoughtfully leave out all the nasty ones :) Is there really no one doing that in Britain? ObCostume: the actual spur to planning this trip is the Mediaeval Dress and Textiles Society meeting on March 11th, which is on Knitting before 1600. The last time I was in England -- or, indeed, anywhere in Europe -- was 1970, so this will be quite exciting. I've got about half a week in London and half a week out in the countryside planned. -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] More OT: to Brits (WAS: Seriously off topic - need advice)
So it looks as though I'm going to be in England for a week in March, and part of it I'll be staying with a family. These are people who are interested in history, BTW, but not necessarily in clothing. What sorts of things make good presents-for-one's-hosts from California/USAmerica? What do we have that's difficult to find over there or especially American? grin 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mystery Hands
At 11:13 PM -0500 1/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know a lot about the subject, but it strikes me as odd that one group of orange beads is 9, while one is 8. Aren't rosaries in groups of 10? Or shouldn't they at least be all the same number? In a painting, not necessarily -- but I see what you mean. Ten is certainly the overwhelmingly common number of beads in a group, with five as the runner-up. But paintings show bead numbers all over the map -- 8, 3, 7, 9, et cetera. Similarly, the total number of beads in a painting may be 39, 19, 16, or some other number that (1) fits into the space on the painting, and (2) allows the beads to be big enough that you can see what they are. As for actual beads, the best evidence is in written documents, which do generally talk about groups of ten. Surviving beads are relatively few and have often been re-strung somewhere along the way, but something like the Langdale gold rosary or Mary Queen of Scots' rosaries indicate that ten-bead groups are indeed the norm. * * * * * * * * BTW, I haven't plugged my website Paternoster-Row or my Paternosters blog in awhile, and I was going to mention them again anyway, since I've just started a blog-post series on Wearing your medieval rosary. * * * * * * * * Some different numbers of beads for your entertainment: The man in the woodcut about halfway down this page has twelve beads: http://paternoster-row.org This page shows St. Joseph's rosary from Rogier Van der Weyden's The Magdalen Reading, which has 16 beads: http://paternosters.home.igc.org/02-linear/02-linear.html There's another indefinite-numbered rosary being worn by St. Hedwig on this page: http://paternosters.home.igc.org/99-gallery/02-hedwig/02-hedwig.html The classic, of course, is the beads of Catherine, Duchess of Cleves, which appear as the border of a manuscript page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/89815411/ Here's one that does seem to be consistently in groups of 10 (as far as we can see): http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/20904863/ Here's a particularly good example, I think, of beads big enough that you can see what they are overriding realism: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/10134724/ -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 100-year-old Vietnamese bark dresses
A collection of ancient dresses made from tree bark has been found in Quang Tri Province. It is believed that is a relic of the Van Kieu, one of the Vietnamese ethnic minorities in the Central Highlands. According to experts, making a tree dress is very difficult. First, skilful artisan is chosen to get the bark from the Pi, a tree in the Central Highlands. He would not chop down the tree, just pare round it and take a layer of bark. At home, the artisan's partner prepared cask of boiling water, with spices such as ginger, sugar-cane, and citronella. The tree skin would then be soaked in the water in 10 days to release its poisons. It would then be dried for a week and restored. On the 14th day of a lunar month, people would take it and sew into clothing. Sounds fascinating! I'm intrigued by the references to poisons (?) and to the ritual aspect of choosing a particular day to work on the project. http://english.vietnamnet.vn/lifestyle/2006/01/534345/ -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's it called?
At 7:39 AM -0500 1/21/06, jen funk segrest wrote: http://www.newadvent.org/images/04351aax.jpg that little square thing at the top edge? What is that called? I've been considering decorating that wide strip of cloth that works as a closure for the half round copes the priests, and everyone seemingly, wore across the high chest to keep them on as my SCA baronial champions project. It's called a morse, although I've more commonly seen that word applied to metal brooch-like fastenings. Take a look at: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10577c.htm -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
