Re: REXX vs other languages WAS: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question
I’m not sure I would use Java as a REXX alternative now we have Python. REXX is very much legacy now. The old timers love it because it’s all they know but push come to shove Python is much easier to learn then Java with all the OO cruft. > On 19 Apr 2024, at 7:50 AM, Andrew Rowley > wrote: > > On 18/04/2024 8:29 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote: >> The mileage of people here vary including the Java people themselves who >> have started to reduce the need of explicit declarations like the new "var" >> (imitating JavaScript) instead of strict types or foregoing the static main >> method such that one can at least code the main method without the explicit >> declarations. The motivation about these changes is to make Java easier, >> reduce typing needs and the like. > > The Java var keyword is more like C# than Javascript. The variable still has > a strict type - you can only use var if the compiler can figure out the type > from other information e.g. > > var start = ZonedDateTime.now(); > > start is a ZonedDateTime. You can't use it before it is defined, you can't > assign anything other than a ZoneDateTime to it, you can't create a new > variable called start in the same scope, whether or not it is a ZoneDateTime. > You can't e.g compare it to a LocalDateTime without specifying a timezone for > the LocalDateTime - that is one of those things that helps avoid errors. > > var just reduces redundant code, e.g. specifying the type twice in the same > statement. > > >> Of course a static and statically typed languages with a compiler must >> define as much rules as possible, such that the compiler can check for them >> all. The more rules the more time consuming and the more difficult to learn >> a language. > > I think the syntax rules for Rexx are actually more complex than Java, > because it is less likely to flag an error if you do something that's not > actually what you want. E.g. string concatenation where variables are > expected to be strings but maybe not, might not be initialized, sometimes you > need vertical bars but not always etc. If you're used to the language you > write it without thinking and avoid the traps, but the rules are there > nonetheless. > > Java is relatively straightforward, and shares many rules with other > languages - C++, C# etc. I'm not saying Java is perfect - it has its own > traps (int vs Integer etc) but I find it a much easier language to work with. > > -- > Andrew Rowley > Black Hill Software > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: list Unix domain sockets
zlsof https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.4.0?topic=scd-zlsof-display-information-about-open-files-sockets-pipes > On 17 Apr 2024, at 06:42, Frank Swarbrick wrote: > > Is it possible to list Unix domain sockets? I don't see any netstat option > to do so. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question
> On 19 Mar 2024, at 9:08 am, Andrew Rowley > wrote: > > On 19/03/2024 11:05 am, David Crayford wrote: >> If you’re care so much about Java catching errors at compile time then why >> don’t you use Kotlin instead? NPE’s are one of the most common form of Java >> runtime errors that can be eliminated using Kotlins null safety. > > Java's not perfect, but it is powerful and it is pretty much universally > available on z/OS. I'm writing functions for others to build on e.g.: > > https://static.blackhillsoftware.com/easysmf-rti/javadoc/com.blackhillsoftware.smf.realtime/com/blackhillsoftware/smf/realtime/package-summary.html > > So using/targeting the language that is most available makes sense. > > But my question was: Why Python? What are the reasons for using Python rather > than e.g. Java? We utilize both languages, selecting the most suitable for each task at hand. Our primary application runs on Java using the Spring Boot framework. We orchestrate records originating from various z/OS data sources, transforming them into JSON or other pluggable formats, and dispatch them to analytics platforms, AI engines, or serve Prometheus metrics. We've developed numerous Java record mapping classes generated by our tooling, which is crafted in Python using Jinja2 templates and YAML schemas. Opting for Java in this context wouldn't be pragmatic. Employing SnakeYAML and utilizing a map-like interface for traversing the object graph, or even resorting to POJO classes and beans, would entail significantly more effort. Python serves as our go-to choice for tooling, encompassing DevOps pipelines, and managing artifactory processes. With AI technology already a reality, Python stands as the prevailing programming language of the moment. While much buzz surrounds the new Telum chip in the z16, the question remains: How do we leverage its potential? For this, we require Python libraries—either TensorFlow or PyTorch—running on s390x architecture (for now). Our AI products process mainframe data, including SMF, exclusively in Python. Noteworthy examples like ChatGPT and the Autopilot AI model training for Tesla automobiles are also Python-based. Additionally, automation tools like Red Hat Ansible, written in Python, are gaining traction on z/OS. Concerns about uninitialized variables and similar issues need not weigh heavily on our minds. Modern IDEs catch such errors in real-time, offering robust support akin to Java, especially when configured to block commits if there are outstanding liniting warnings. While I personally use the enterprise versions of the IntelliJ suite, VS Code stands as a commendable and cost-free alternative. Though the conversation initially compared REXX to Python, it's clear they are fundamentally different beasts and different ends of the spectrum. Python is a powerful and widely-used programming language with applications across various industries. It underpins critical systems like the backend of Instagram's photo-sharing platform, and is utilized by major players such as Tesla, Spotify, Uber, Amazon, NASA, Netflix, and Facebook. Notably, IBM is investing in Python for z/OS, with the ability to run on a zIIP with a 70% generosity factor and libraries facilitating integration with RACF, enabling the use of RACF keyrings with micro web frameworks like Flask. Certainly, IBM's investment in Java is crucial for the future sustainability of z/OS. On the other hand, REXX is likely supported as cheaply as possible by a very small team, along with TSO. > > -- > Andrew Rowley > Black Hill Software > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question
Python has had type hints for ages https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html. If you use an IDE you can set the review to block commits if liniting fails. If you’re care so much about Java catching errors at compile time then why don’t you use Kotlin instead? NPE’s are one of the most common form of Java runtime errors that can be eliminated using Kotlins null safety. > On 19 Mar 2024, at 7:30 am, Andrew Rowley > wrote: > > On 19/03/2024 9:53 am, Pew, Curtis G wrote: >> You get used to the “significant indentation” thing pretty quickly. It >> really makes sense: you should be indenting blocks anyway to make them easy >> to read, so why clutter things up with braces or keywords? >> >> Most scripting languages (including REXX) don’t require declaring variables. >> Since there’s no separate compile step you get the errors when they happen >> in any case, so declaring variables doesn’t buy you much. > > I probably would get used to significant indentation, although I do indent > for readability and I'm not sure I want to be mixing readability and logic in > the same construct. > > Explicitly declaring variables has a number of advantages: > > - it flags errors due to e.g. misspellings > > - it flags errors when you intend to create a new variable but reuse an > existing one > > - it checks data types, e.g. for SMF data if you have a ZonedDateTime you > can't assign/compare a LocalDateTime without specifying the time zone. So the > class designers can protect you form a whole heap of common errors, and flag > them before the program starts. > > -- > Andrew Rowley > Black Hill Software > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Learning one's tools
> On 18 Mar 2024, at 22:33, Dave Beagle > <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > LOL, I was a programmer for almost half my 40+ year career. IMS/COBOL DB/DC > at first. Later mostly COBOL CICS and COBOL DB2. So I’m excellent in COBOL. > In college, I programmed in PL/I, fortran, watfiv, pascal, and some others. > Logic is my forte. Math major helps. (Double major Comp Sci) > And a doctorate in bullshit > As for code reviews, I’ve worked at 15 companies of various sizes and none of > them did code reviews. One company tried to implement, but it was a cluster > and a huge waste of time. Imagine having a staff of 10, who not only have > their own coding requirements and time constraints, but now have to hand hold > the less qualified employees. If you have a staff of 10 and they are making > $50/hour and up and each code review takes 10 hours, you have thousands of > dollars tied up hand holding weaker staff with more talented staff. A bad use > of money. A better method is mentoring, where a newer programmer is mentored > by a senior person. That’s how I was taught (IMS DB/DC) at my first > programming position after transferring from Operations at my first employer. > My code never failed. Because it was well tested. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Sunday, March 17, 2024, 11:56 PM, Bob Bridges > <0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Boy, ain't THAT the truth!, he says sadly, thinking of an app he didn't write > and is now responsible for maintaining. > > This thing passes multiple values between programs using (if I understand it > correctly) a single character string consisting of many assignment > statements, which are then parsed and evaluated upon returning to the calling > program. Me, I probably would've used ISPF pool variables, but I'm not sure > that would be easier to follow. So far I don't mess with it much; it works. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* Every year, on April 15, all members of Congress would be placed in > individual prison cells with the necessary tax forms and a copy of the Tax > Code. They would remain locked in the cells, without food or water, until > they had completed their tax returns and successfully undergone a full IRS > audit. Of course this system would probably result in a severe shortage of > congresspersons. But there might also be some drawbacks. -Dave Barry's plan > to simplify the tax code, 2000-04-09 */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Seymour J Metz > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 18:46 > > Expect the code to be modified by someone with significantly less knowledge > of the problem domain, even if they are an expert in the language. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Hmm, 3 ... (Re: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question
Hey Rony, From what I understand, you haven't had experience working on z/OS. Let's stick to the topic and focus on discussing REXX as it functions on z/OS. This means no discussions about ooRexx or Java bridges, as they don't exist and are unlikely to in the future on z/OS. The majority of REXX programmers here utilize classic TSO REXX and primarily work within a TSO/ISPF environment. In this setup, REXX lacks a module system. Therefore, any routines or libraries need to be manually copied and pasted wherever they're needed, or you have to create a pre-processor to merge source files together. If your language lacks the fundamental basic features to sort an array then to me that’s a good indication you should use one that does. I'm not spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD). I'm simply stating my observations based on over 30 years of using REXX on z/OS, including developing extensions. I believe this gives me a significant level of expertise to offer commentary on the matter. > On 16 Mar 2024, at 6:03 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote: > > On 16.03.2024 01:17, David Crayford wrote: >>> On 16 Mar 2024, at 7:45 am, Jay >>> Maynard<05997213d6c2-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >>> >>> That depends. Can you use, say, Python to implement all the scripting kinds >>> of things you can use REXX for? >> Like what, TSO? I don’t find I need to do that any more as I work in a UNIX >> shell. Let me flip that around. Can I use REXX to implement the kind of >> scripting that I do in Python? For example, process a YAML configuration >> file. > Yes, if you wanted, it is fairly easy BTW and would not be as potentially > dangerous if done in REXX than done with Perl or Python (cf. > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML#Security>). >> We need to do that stuff on z/OS now. CICS resource definitions can be >> defined as YAML documents, configuration as code and all that stuff. DevOps, >> Git repos. REXX is a pretty poor language for anything modern. > > Again, unsubstantiated and derogative, please just stop behaving like a > religious warrior and stick to facts and discuss sorberly, stop your FUD > please! > >> IBM and ISVs are working on Python APIs for products right now. > That is fine. On slides and in imaginations everything in the future is > always much better than what is available at present. >> And they will be better than the REXX versions. > > Well, that has yet to be seen. If improvements materialize, then it would a) > be fine and b) be a reason to look into the existing, working REXX versions > for the same improvements then. > > A massive improvement for the mainframes were to make ooRexx available on > them. > > Combine ooRexx with the ooRexx-Java bridge and software engineers have > immediately gained the ability to use *any* Java API from ooRexx, without a > need to learn Java at all, it suffices to be able to read the HTML > documentation of Java classes. The easiness and the productivity gains can be > inferred if you know that my novices can do this successfully during the last > two months of the semester even becoming able to exploit the SSL/TLS Java > socket classes, besides awt/swing, JavaFX and some more. > > The potential savings for the mainframe users would be enormeous if they > started to exploit that combination. It is actually available already today > in the Linux subsystems such that one can assess the technology (I know of > deployments that exploit this combination in production, using ooRexx to run > programs that interact with DB2 using JDBC). > > ---rony > >>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 6:36 PM David Crayford < >>> 0595a051454b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> Working with REXX doesn't feel comfortable to me at all. I'm troubled by >>>> the fact that every function call carries a potential side effect. While we >>>> can resort to procedures, we then encounter the challenge of dealing with >>>> telescoping exposure lists. When I hear about adapting to quirks, it seems >>>> to translate to "I acknowledge REXX's flaws, but I stick with it because >>>> it's what I'm familiar with, even if I have to tolerate it.” The recent >>>> discussions on this forum have brought attention to the shortcomings and >>>> limitations of REXX as a programming language. >>>> >>>> In comparison to other platforms, Z/OS used to offer limited options in >>>> terms of programming languages. However, that's no longer the case. What >>>> struck me as ironic during my recent presentation was that the majority of >>>> the au
Re: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question
> On 16 Mar 2024, at 7:45 am, Jay Maynard > <05997213d6c2-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > That depends. Can you use, say, Python to implement all the scripting kinds > of things you can use REXX for? Like what, TSO? I don’t find I need to do that any more as I work in a UNIX shell. Let me flip that around. Can I use REXX to implement the kind of scripting that I do in Python? For example, process a YAML configuration file. We need to do that stuff on z/OS now. CICS resource definitions can be defined as YAML documents, configuration as code and all that stuff. DevOps, Git repos. REXX is a pretty poor language for anything modern. IBM and ISVs are working on Python APIs for products right now. And they will be better than the REXX versions. > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 6:36 PM David Crayford < > 0595a051454b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> Working with REXX doesn't feel comfortable to me at all. I'm troubled by >> the fact that every function call carries a potential side effect. While we >> can resort to procedures, we then encounter the challenge of dealing with >> telescoping exposure lists. When I hear about adapting to quirks, it seems >> to translate to "I acknowledge REXX's flaws, but I stick with it because >> it's what I'm familiar with, even if I have to tolerate it.” The recent >> discussions on this forum have brought attention to the shortcomings and >> limitations of REXX as a programming language. >> >> In comparison to other platforms, Z/OS used to offer limited options in >> terms of programming languages. However, that's no longer the case. What >> struck me as ironic during my recent presentation was that the majority of >> the audience were millennials who were unfamiliar with REXX. This might >> come as a surprise to seasoned veterans of mainframes who are used to REXX, >> but in today's landscape, familiarity with it isn't necessary. >> >>> On 16 Mar 2024, at 7:19 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>> >>> Every language has pitfalls. While I generally prefer strongly typed >> languages, I find Rexx and ooRexx to be comfortable to work with, and it is >> not difficult to adapt to its quirks: >>> >>> <http://www.rexxla.org/Newsletter/9812safe.html> >>> <http://www.rexxla.org/Newsletter/9901safe.html> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >>> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר >>> >>> >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on >> behalf of David Crayford <0595a051454b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> >>> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 6:40 PM >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question >>> >>> REXX can indeed be quite tricky to navigate. I recently conducted a >> session titled "Python for REXX programmers" at work, and during the >> preparation, I was surprised (although not entirely) by the numerous traps >> and pitfalls inherent in REXX. When you add to this its absence of basic >> functionalities like sorting lists, it begs the question: Why opt for REXX >> when we have a plethora of alternatives available today? >>> >>> The obvious answer may be familiarity, but in our industry, this >> argument seems rather weak unless you're confined to a limited environment. >> After all, I wouldn't want to revert to using a 1990s-era flip-top phone, >> let alone a rotary dial from the 1970s. >>> >>>> On 16 Mar 2024, at 2:47 am, Charles Mills wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, that explains a mystery. I did not realize that SIGNAL ON was >> pushed and popped on subroutine calls. I have had this vague problem where >> my SIGNAL ON NOVALUE did not seem to work but at the time of an error it is >> always easier to fix the NOVALUE condition than troubleshoot the SIGNAL ON. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:04:00 -0500, Glenn Knickerbocker < >> n...@bestweb.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:01:30 -0500, Charles Mills >> wrote: >>>>>> And the answer is ... "The three numeric settings are automatically >> saved across internal and external subroutine and function calls." >>>>>> I was setting numeric digits in an initialization subroutine, so Rexx >> helpfully unset it on return from ini
Re: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question
Working with REXX doesn't feel comfortable to me at all. I'm troubled by the fact that every function call carries a potential side effect. While we can resort to procedures, we then encounter the challenge of dealing with telescoping exposure lists. When I hear about adapting to quirks, it seems to translate to "I acknowledge REXX's flaws, but I stick with it because it's what I'm familiar with, even if I have to tolerate it.” The recent discussions on this forum have brought attention to the shortcomings and limitations of REXX as a programming language. In comparison to other platforms, Z/OS used to offer limited options in terms of programming languages. However, that's no longer the case. What struck me as ironic during my recent presentation was that the majority of the audience were millennials who were unfamiliar with REXX. This might come as a surprise to seasoned veterans of mainframes who are used to REXX, but in today's landscape, familiarity with it isn't necessary. > On 16 Mar 2024, at 7:19 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > Every language has pitfalls. While I generally prefer strongly typed > languages, I find Rexx and ooRexx to be comfortable to work with, and it is > not difficult to adapt to its quirks: > > <http://www.rexxla.org/Newsletter/9812safe.html> > <http://www.rexxla.org/Newsletter/9901safe.html> > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי > נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר > > ________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > David Crayford <0595a051454b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 6:40 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question > > REXX can indeed be quite tricky to navigate. I recently conducted a session > titled "Python for REXX programmers" at work, and during the preparation, I > was surprised (although not entirely) by the numerous traps and pitfalls > inherent in REXX. When you add to this its absence of basic functionalities > like sorting lists, it begs the question: Why opt for REXX when we have a > plethora of alternatives available today? > > The obvious answer may be familiarity, but in our industry, this argument > seems rather weak unless you're confined to a limited environment. After all, > I wouldn't want to revert to using a 1990s-era flip-top phone, let alone a > rotary dial from the 1970s. > >> On 16 Mar 2024, at 2:47 am, Charles Mills wrote: >> >> Well, that explains a mystery. I did not realize that SIGNAL ON was pushed >> and popped on subroutine calls. I have had this vague problem where my >> SIGNAL ON NOVALUE did not seem to work but at the time of an error it is >> always easier to fix the NOVALUE condition than troubleshoot the SIGNAL ON. >> >> Thanks! >> Charles >> >> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:04:00 -0500, Glenn Knickerbocker >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:01:30 -0500, Charles Mills wrote: >>>> And the answer is ... "The three numeric settings are automatically saved >>>> across internal and external subroutine and function calls." >>>> I was setting numeric digits in an initialization subroutine, so Rexx >>>> helpfully unset it on return from initialization. I thought I had done it >>>> that way before but I guess I have not. >>> >>> Funny, I work with a lot of code that has a common subroutine for >>> retrieving a TRACE setting to set in the main routine, and I never even >>> thought about why, or about all the stuff that gets saved across calls! >>> From CALL HELPREXX on VM: >>> >>>> The status of DO loops and other structures: >>> --though, importantly, not the *indices* of the loops! >>>> Trace action: >>>> NUMERIC settings: >>>> ADDRESS settings: >>>> Condition traps: (CALL ON and SIGNAL ON) >>>> Condition information: >>>> Elapsed-time clocks: >>>> OPTIONS settings: >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Rexx numeric digits and scientific notation question
REXX can indeed be quite tricky to navigate. I recently conducted a session titled "Python for REXX programmers" at work, and during the preparation, I was surprised (although not entirely) by the numerous traps and pitfalls inherent in REXX. When you add to this its absence of basic functionalities like sorting lists, it begs the question: Why opt for REXX when we have a plethora of alternatives available today? The obvious answer may be familiarity, but in our industry, this argument seems rather weak unless you're confined to a limited environment. After all, I wouldn't want to revert to using a 1990s-era flip-top phone, let alone a rotary dial from the 1970s. > On 16 Mar 2024, at 2:47 am, Charles Mills wrote: > > Well, that explains a mystery. I did not realize that SIGNAL ON was pushed > and popped on subroutine calls. I have had this vague problem where my SIGNAL > ON NOVALUE did not seem to work but at the time of an error it is always > easier to fix the NOVALUE condition than troubleshoot the SIGNAL ON. > > Thanks! > Charles > > On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:04:00 -0500, Glenn Knickerbocker > wrote: > >> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:01:30 -0500, Charles Mills wrote: >>> And the answer is ... "The three numeric settings are automatically saved >>> across internal and external subroutine and function calls." >>> I was setting numeric digits in an initialization subroutine, so Rexx >>> helpfully unset it on return from initialization. I thought I had done it >>> that way before but I guess I have not. >> >> Funny, I work with a lot of code that has a common subroutine for retrieving >> a TRACE setting to set in the main routine, and I never even thought about >> why, or about all the stuff that gets saved across calls! From CALL >> HELPREXX on VM: >> >>> The status of DO loops and other structures: >> --though, importantly, not the *indices* of the loops! >>> Trace action: >>> NUMERIC settings: >>> ADDRESS settings: >>> Condition traps: (CALL ON and SIGNAL ON) >>> Condition information: >>> Elapsed-time clocks: >>> OPTIONS settings: > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ZOS Sending Logs to Sumologic Experience?
> On 7 Mar 2024, at 10:08 am, kekronbekron > <02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> You are making a mistake if you discount the effectiveness of >> industry-standard tools in analyzing mainframe data. > > Let me clarify... I'm not saying don't use it at all. Just saying that there > seems to be a tendency to lean too heavily on it, after it has gotten its > foot through the door (for receiving security events). > I don't expect it to be great for either real-time processing of high volume > perf data or for archival of said data efficiently, and allowing for > historical reporting/charting etc. > I have a solid background in sending metrics to analytical platforms, having focused on this for the past decade. While platforms like Splunk and Elastic are primarily designed for logs, they excel in handling metrics, especially when scaled out in a cluster with sensible retention policies. Incorporating Kafka as a broker enhances this setup, allowing for efficient stream aggregation and anomaly detection using tools like the Kafka Streams API or ksqlDB. We've seen our customers adopt this approach, as evidenced by our recent service update enabling Kafka to utilize RACF keyring for TLS connections, a case initiated by your employer, KB. The product I'm currently engaged with streamlines seamless streaming to platforms such as Splunk, Elastic, Instana, and supports Prometheus metrics visualized through Grafana. Additionally, we're actively pursuing compatibility with Otel, driven by customer demand. Notably, the introduction of the Grafana UI in RMF for z/OS 3.1 offers a modernized experience compared to the outdated 3270 interface, earning praise even from our most seasoned and skeptical professionals. The mainframe is just one piece of a larger puzzle. Customers operate distributed systems that have long employed modern stacks for visualization and analysis, and they desire z/OS to seamlessly integrate into that ecosystem. We face an abundance of requirements that need addressing. The traditional approach of relying solely on batch reporting tools for performance analysis is becoming obsolete. Here's a compelling customer case study that illustrates how upgrading our tools supports them in their modernization journey. You can find it at https://www.ibm.com/case-studies/bankdata. > > > > On Wednesday, March 6th, 2024 at 21:32, Charles Mills > wrote: > >> I of course saw first-hand a lot of mainframe -> SIEM or Splunk >> integrations, and they ran the gamut. Some were as you describe; some were >> quite effective. The worst I saw was one company that was printing an SMF >> report to spool, using a mainframe product to convert the spooled report to >> a PDF, and sending it to the SIEM, which dutifully archived it. Made the >> auditors happy: mission accomplished. On the other hand, believe me, there >> were customers doing truly amazing "production" and ad hoc analyses both of >> security and performance data, using Splunk and other tools. (Recall I have >> no financial or similar interest in BMC, Splunk, or anything similar.) >> Splunk is not my favorite product -- the company was extremely difficult to >> deal with and the product is expensive to license, but it is an AMAZING >> product and many customers and customer people absolutely LOVE it. (That of >> course is why they are able to charge what they charge.) >> >> >> I was personally on a Zoom call with a very major financial institution that >> you would recognize in a heartbeat, doing a product new-feature demo, when >> we caught an intruder in the mainframe, real time. It was a contractor who >> was authorized to be on the mainframe but who had managed to improperly >> elevate his privileges to SPECIAL. it was an amazing moment, going from >> routine vendor product demo to "what the heck is HE doing -- hey, we gotta >> go." >> >> I was not aware of all of the exact details but our processing in >> conjunction with a SIEM was instrumental in uncovering a money-laundering >> scheme at a large bank in Mexico. >> >> My main interest was the security stuff, but yes, customers are doing very >> effective analysis of RMF and similar data. You are making a mistake if you >> discount the effectiveness of industry-standard tools in analyzing mainframe >> data. >> >> Charles >> >> On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 15:26:47 +, kekronbekron kekronbek...@protonmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> Exactly. I have my reservations on whether we as mainframe folks are >>> choosing this (log analytics products) or are defaulting to it because no >>> one is challenging for appropriate options from the mainframe technical >>> side. >>> For an org, there is of course the valid point of correlation that Charles >>> mentions, however, if you objectively work out costs and that, I don't >>> think it works out as cost-effective. >>> >>> We may see kubernetes platforms sending auth logs, syslog, and
Re: What am I doing wrong with BPXWUNIX sort?
You’re using the same stem variable for input and output. Use a specific stdout. stem and see if that fixes it. Kolusu’s snippet works for me. > On 7 Mar 2024, at 8:41 am, Charles Mills wrote: > > Thanks. As I said, I have tried both -k2 and -k 2, and also -k1 and +1, all > with the same result. > > CM > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 00:27:21 +, Sri Hari Kolusu wrote: > >> Charles, >> >> Try a space after k. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Nanosecond resolution timestamps for HLL's?
Very nice. Good work Frank. You’ve taught me something new. > On 21 Feb 2024, at 1:54 am, Frank Swarbrick > wrote: > > You have to have some knowledge of C to be able to do it. For example, I had > to look at /usr/include/time.h to be able to known what types and sizes of > the data fields are needed for COBOL. And the whole __errno thing, I'm not > sure how I figured that out. It was some time ago. > > Oh, by the way, I seem to have forgotten to explicitly set clock_id. Luckily > I have the runtime setting on which initiates working storage to low-values, > and the clock_id value CLOCK_MONOTONIC is binary zero. CLOCK_REALTIME, fwiw, > is binary 1. I got these from time.h as well. Anyway, I'd add those as 88 > levels under clock_id and then set CLOCK_MONOTONIC to true before calling > clock_gettime(). > > If you are lucky enough to have the most recent fix pack for Enterprise COBOL > v6.4 you should be able to utilize function prototypes. I don't have it, but > I've been aware of this feature from the COBOL 2014 standard, so I think > you'd do something like this: > > id division. > function-id. >Clock-GetTime as 'clock_gettime' is prototype >entry—name is longmixed >entry-interface is static. > data division. > linkage section. > 01 clock-id pic 9(9) comp-5. > 01 time-spec. >05 secondspic 9(9) comp-5. >05 nanosecondspic 9(9) comp-5. > 01 result-codepic 9(9) comp-5. > procedure division using value clock-id > reference time-spec > returning result-code. > end function Clock-GetTime. > > This would be coded ahead of the main program. Or better yet, placed in a > copybook and "COPYed" in at the top of the main program > You'd then add to the calling program: > > configuration section. > repository. >function Clock-GetTime. > > Then invoke the C routine like this: > >if Clock-GetTime(clock_id timespec) = zero >[...happy path here...] >else >[...sad path here...] >end-if > > You don't have to code the repository entry if you just want to add the > FUNCTION keyword before Clock-GetTime, e.g. >if function Clock-GetTime(...) ... > > You'd could also remove the "process pgmname(longmixed) nodynam", if you > like, because those are handled by the enrty-name and entry-interface clauses > of the function prototype definition. > > Have fun! > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Farley, Peter <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 8:39 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Nanosecond resolution timestamps for HLL's? > > Thank you very much Frank. I will try this out on my system. > > Would that such clear examples were available from IBM. > > Peter > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Frank Swarbrick > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 1:01 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Nanosecond resolution timestamps for HLL's? > > > Try this. > > > > > > process pgmname(longmixed) nodynam > > > > id division. > > > > program-id. 'cgettime_test'. > > > > data division. > > > > working-storage section. > > > > 01 errno-ref pointer. > > > > 01 strerror-refpointer. > > > > 01 len pic s9(9) comp-5. > > > > 01 display-x. > > > > 05 pic x occurs 0 to 1025 depending on len. > > > > > > > > 01 clock_idpic s9(9) comp-5. > > > > 01 timespec. > > > > 05 secspic s9(9) comp-5. > > > > 05 nsecs pic s9(9) comp-5. > > > > 01 rc pic s9(9) comp-5. > > > > > > > > linkage section. > > > > 01 errno pic s9(9) comp-5. > > > > 01 h_errno pic s9(9) comp-5. > > > > 01 strerrorpic x(256). > > > > > > > > procedure division. > > > > call 'clock_gettime' using value clock_id > > > > reference timespec > > > >returning rc > > > > if rc = zero > > > > display 'seconds: ' secs > > > > display 'nanoseconds:' nsecs > > > > else > > > > perform handle-error > > > > end-if > > > > goback. > > > > > > > > handle-error. > > > > call '__errno' returning errno-ref > > > > set address of errno to errno-ref > > > > call 'strerror' using value errno > > > >returning strerror-ref > > > > set address of strerror to strerror-ref >
Re: Nanosecond resolution timestamps for HLL's?
There is no z/OS UNIX callable service. I don't mind that as the overhead of a PC call to call a timing routine is probably a bit much. You can see the diff from the z/OS clang port that uses STCKE here https://reviews.llvm.org/D93542 On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 7:47 AM Farley, Peter < 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Thanks David, I missed that entirely since it was not present in the last > V2.5 documentation that I downloaded. I will have to download the whole > doc package again and review it. Did they also provide a callable Unix > Services function that implements the function? > > One issue of course is the lack of sufficient example code for how COBOL > can call the C/C++ library routines. > > Peter > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of David Crayford > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 3:41 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Nanosecond resolution timestamps for HLL's? > > > clock_gettime() was added to z/OS > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=functions-clock-gettime-retrieve-time-specified-clock__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!L0Vqx6BX9GMMzLWErht-01oUNYtt7s2SHOcZxlJcuM4li7nA9JPGeWdh2e-bNNJLh31i6F-lcoOqspbZ5_19ujb23o38l_3l5l86Bk-g$ > < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=functions-clock-gettime-retrieve-time-specified-clock__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!L0Vqx6BX9GMMzLWErht-01oUNYtt7s2SHOcZxlJcuM4li7nA9JPGeWdh2e-bNNJLh31i6F-lcoOqspbZ5_19ujb23o38l_3l5l86Bk-g$ > >. > > It's my understanding it was a requirement for the clang stuff. You may be > > able to call the RTL. > > > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 8:23 AM Peter Farley < > > 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>> wrote: > > > > > I have been reviewing all the documentation I can find to provide > > > nano-second resolution timestamps from a calling HLL batch program. STCK > > > and STCKE instructions of course provide this (and more) resolution, but > > > using them from any HLL besides C/C++ requires an assembler subroutine > > > (however simple that may be for those of us who are already comfortable > in > > > assembler). In shops where any new assembler functionality is proscribed > > > or strongly discouraged can't or would strongly prefer not to use > assembler > > > for this functionality. > > > > > > The only HLL-callable function already provided in z/OS that I can find > > > that provides anything near that resolution is the LE Callable Services > > > function CEEGMT, but two calls to that service from a COBOL program in a > > > row separated by only a few calculations and a DISPLAY to SYSOUT produce > > > identical values. This is not good enough for high-volume processing > > > needs. Every request for a time value needs to generate a new higher > value. > > > > > > Is there any other place I am not yet looking which provides nano-second > > > resolution like STCK/STCKE and the linux function clock_gettime() besides > > > an assembler invocation of STCK/STCKE? z/OS Unix has not yet implemented > > > the clock_gettime() function anyway, so that is off the table. The > calling > > > HLL here will be COBOL, so the C/C++ builtin functions "__stck" and > > > "__stcke" are not available. Would that they were, but they are not at > > > this time. (Maybe that calls for a new "idea" to IBM . . . ?) > > > > > > HTH for any pointers or RTFM you can provide. > > > > > > Peter > > -- > > > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. > If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Nanosecond resolution timestamps for HLL's?
clock_gettime() was added to z/OS https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=functions-clock-gettime-retrieve-time-specified-clock. It's my understanding it was a requirement for the clang stuff. You may be able to call the RTL. On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 8:23 AM Peter Farley < 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > I have been reviewing all the documentation I can find to provide > nano-second resolution timestamps from a calling HLL batch program. STCK > and STCKE instructions of course provide this (and more) resolution, but > using them from any HLL besides C/C++ requires an assembler subroutine > (however simple that may be for those of us who are already comfortable in > assembler). In shops where any new assembler functionality is proscribed > or strongly discouraged can't or would strongly prefer not to use assembler > for this functionality. > > The only HLL-callable function already provided in z/OS that I can find > that provides anything near that resolution is the LE Callable Services > function CEEGMT, but two calls to that service from a COBOL program in a > row separated by only a few calculations and a DISPLAY to SYSOUT produce > identical values. This is not good enough for high-volume processing > needs. Every request for a time value needs to generate a new higher value. > > Is there any other place I am not yet looking which provides nano-second > resolution like STCK/STCKE and the linux function clock_gettime() besides > an assembler invocation of STCK/STCKE? z/OS Unix has not yet implemented > the clock_gettime() function anyway, so that is off the table. The calling > HLL here will be COBOL, so the C/C++ builtin functions "__stck" and > "__stcke" are not available. Would that they were, but they are not at > this time. (Maybe that calls for a new "idea" to IBM . . . ?) > > HTH for any pointers or RTFM you can provide. > > Peter > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IBM Reopens Its Frozen Pension Plan, Saving the Company Millions
Please Mr Z, don’t feed them! > On 14 Feb 2024, at 9:18 am, zMan > <059081901144-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > But that's not what you said. Make up your mind, Bill! > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 8:17 PM Dave Beagle < > 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> My point is quit relying on your employer to fund your retirement. I >> worked at Packard Electric decades ago. Most of the white collar folks >> there had their pensions transferred to the PBGC about 15-20 years ago. >> Which cut their benefits to some tiny fraction of what they were promised. >> They’ve been fighting to get what they deserve since then, unsuccessfully. >> I never trusted my employers ever to keep their promises. That served me >> well. >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >> On Tuesday, February 13, 2024, 2:27 PM, Doug Fuerst >> wrote: >> >> $22.5K if only you and $66K in you/employer is not enough? >> >> https://www.investopedia.com/retirement/401k-contribution-limits/ >> >> Doug Fuerst >> d...@bkassociates.net >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From "Wayne Bickerdike" <059234794979-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> >> To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Date 2/13/2024 14:12:28 PM >> Subject Re: IBM Reopens Its Frozen Pension Plan, Saving the Company >> Millions >> >>> Looks like they are reverting to a Defined Benefit scheme. I never >> received >>> anything from IBM after my employment with them in the 70's. >>> >>> The 401K contribution limits are too low to ensure a comfortable >>> retirement. >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 5:38 AM zMan < >>> 059081901144-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >>> "The company has stopped making contributions to 401(k) accounts, and instead gives workers cash credits in a new version of its old pension plan." https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/business/ibm-pension-plan.html (login required but surely will be elsewhere as well) IBM plays more financial engineering games. -- zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Wayne V. Bickerdike >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > > -- > zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AI System Services on z/OS 3.1 - is a CF really mandatory?
> On 21 Nov 2023, at 8:20 pm, Scott Chapman > <03fffd029d68-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > I think the better question is why does EzNoSQL require RLS? Probably makes > it easier because they don't have to handle different sharing issues, but it > seems possible that some might be interested in using the EzNoSQL API from a > single task without sharing implications. I haven’t used it but from reading the brief docs EzNoSQL is a z/OS implementation of a key/value JSON document store that uses VSAM KSDS as the store. It’s similar to MongoDB or SAP HANA in functionality which are both hugely popular on distributed systems. The marketing materials mention using Sysplex for consistency and performance. MongoDB, Aerospike, SAP HANA etc all have huge in-memory caches for scalability. EzNoSQL uses Sysplex services to implement a straight-through cache and persistent storage that can scale horizontally. IBM makes a point of stating that there are no programming requirements to handle eventual consistency which can be an issue with distributed systems that adhere to the CAP theorem. > Of course I don't know how interested people are in general in EzNoSQL. It looks decent but IBM needs to provide better documentation. > > Scott Chapman > > > On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 17:28:17 -0600, Peter Bishop > wrote: > >> Also, given it's just SMF data being used here, surely there's a way for >> z/OS to process that without VSAM RLS and EzNoSQL (?). Perhaps they are >> using "ported" code, i.e. not native to z/OS, for the AI inferencing part >> and hence must have EzNoSQL and thus VSAM RLS. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: External Functions in C on z/OS
Unfortunately, ooRexx has not been ported to z/OS. There is hope though. The z/OS Open Tools initiative has developers from IBM working full time porting languages and tools to z/OS. They frequently solicit recommendations so if there is a demand for ooRexx there the guys to ask https://github.com/ZOSOpenTools. What’s important to note is that their ports use enhanced ASCII and run in the z/OS UNIX environment so there is very little chance of using ooRexx to write an edit macro or a TSO/ISPF program. > On 17 Nov 2023, at 11:00 pm, Rony G. Flatscher > wrote: > > On 16.11.2023 22:54, David Crayford wrote: >> I don't find ooRexx useful on the PC as it's basically on life support >> where Python has millions of contributors. Take data validation as an >> example. There is a first class library https://docs.pydantic.dev/latest/. >> >> Python isn't my favorite language by a large margin. But it is useful so it >> wins. Same same with Java. Personal preference is secondary to a pragmatic >> choice. > > The combination of ooRexx [1] with Java [2] - on all platforms - allows one > to exploit all of Java (the Java runtime environment) as a huge external > class library for ooRexx. Unlike with Python there would be no need to > locate, choose and import specific modules with the needed functionality, > rather one can use the Rexx skills to immediately exploit all of the Java > functionality on all platforms. > > It is hard to realize/assess the potential of this combination without a > little bit of curiosity and the will to learn new tricks. > > ---rony > > [1] ooRexx download site: > <https://sourceforge.net/projects/oorexx/files/oorexx/> > [2] ooRexx-Java bridge (BSF4ooRexx850) download site: > <https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsf4oorexx/files/beta/20221004/> > > >> On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 5:32 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: >> >>> I find REXX extremely useful on PCs, but TSO/E REXX is a backwater >>> compared to ooRexx, and I would be tempted to use Java or Python for >>> complicated TSO scripts. But on z/Linux ooRexx with BSF4REXX is a viable >>> option. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf >>> of David Crayford >>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 4:02 PM >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: Re: External Functions in C on z/OS >>> >>> I choose a language on capabilities rather than personal preference. I’ve >>> been accused on this forum by my ex-colleague and pal Wayne Bickerdyke of >>> having a pathological dislike of REXX. That’s not true, but I do find it >>> less useful than other languages. Python has a useful library called ctypes >>> which includes classes for mapping data structures with Python classes. We >>> use BigEndianStructure for mapping control blocks >>> https://docs.python.org/3/library/ctypes.html#ctypes.BigEndianStructure. >>> It would be cool if the tooling that we worked on with Peter Relson to >>> create C header files could be reused to generate Python mappings. With the >>> recent zIIP offloading Python is strategic. >>> >>>> On 17 Nov 2023, at 12:38 am, Charles Mills wrote: >>>> >>>> Different strokes for different folks. >>>> >>>> 1. I was not aware of that pointer. This is the classic documentation >>> problem. The answer is right there in the manual, clear as day -- provided >>> you know where to look. A lot of these answers are easy to find, assuming >>> you already know the answer. >>>> 2. My code is running a complex Rexx environment that frankly I do not >>> fully understand. (I didn't write it and it isn't "mine.") I wanted to be >>> sure I had THE right environment block, not SOME environment block. An >>> 11-instruction assembler module seemed like a great solution. I still >>> believe that it was. >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 11:31:20 +0800, David Crayford >>> wrote: >>>>> There's a TSO/E vector table that has the address of the REXX routines. >>>>> >>>>> // get the address of the TSO/e vector table >>>>> CVT * cvt = *(( CVT ** ) CVTPTR); >>>>> TSVT * tsvt = cvt->cvttvt; > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: External Functions in C on z/OS
I don't find ooRexx useful on the PC as it's basically on life support where Python has millions of contributors. Take data validation as an example. There is a first class library https://docs.pydantic.dev/latest/. Python isn't my favorite language by a large margin. But it is useful so it wins. Same same with Java. Personal preference is secondary to a pragmatic choice. On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 5:32 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > I find REXX extremely useful on PCs, but TSO/E REXX is a backwater > compared to ooRexx, and I would be tempted to use Java or Python for > complicated TSO scripts. But on z/Linux ooRexx with BSF4REXX is a viable > option. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of David Crayford > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 4:02 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: External Functions in C on z/OS > > I choose a language on capabilities rather than personal preference. I’ve > been accused on this forum by my ex-colleague and pal Wayne Bickerdyke of > having a pathological dislike of REXX. That’s not true, but I do find it > less useful than other languages. Python has a useful library called ctypes > which includes classes for mapping data structures with Python classes. We > use BigEndianStructure for mapping control blocks > https://docs.python.org/3/library/ctypes.html#ctypes.BigEndianStructure. > It would be cool if the tooling that we worked on with Peter Relson to > create C header files could be reused to generate Python mappings. With the > recent zIIP offloading Python is strategic. > > > On 17 Nov 2023, at 12:38 am, Charles Mills wrote: > > > > Different strokes for different folks. > > > > 1. I was not aware of that pointer. This is the classic documentation > problem. The answer is right there in the manual, clear as day -- provided > you know where to look. A lot of these answers are easy to find, assuming > you already know the answer. > > > > 2. My code is running a complex Rexx environment that frankly I do not > fully understand. (I didn't write it and it isn't "mine.") I wanted to be > sure I had THE right environment block, not SOME environment block. An > 11-instruction assembler module seemed like a great solution. I still > believe that it was. > > > > Charles > > > > On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 11:31:20 +0800, David Crayford > wrote: > > > >> There's a TSO/E vector table that has the address of the REXX routines. > >> > >> // get the address of the TSO/e vector table > >> CVT * cvt = *(( CVT ** ) CVTPTR); > >> TSVT * tsvt = cvt->cvttvt; > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: External Functions in C on z/OS
I choose a language on capabilities rather than personal preference. I’ve been accused on this forum by my ex-colleague and pal Wayne Bickerdyke of having a pathological dislike of REXX. That’s not true, but I do find it less useful than other languages. Python has a useful library called ctypes which includes classes for mapping data structures with Python classes. We use BigEndianStructure for mapping control blocks https://docs.python.org/3/library/ctypes.html#ctypes.BigEndianStructure. It would be cool if the tooling that we worked on with Peter Relson to create C header files could be reused to generate Python mappings. With the recent zIIP offloading Python is strategic. > On 17 Nov 2023, at 12:38 am, Charles Mills wrote: > > Different strokes for different folks. > > 1. I was not aware of that pointer. This is the classic documentation > problem. The answer is right there in the manual, clear as day -- provided > you know where to look. A lot of these answers are easy to find, assuming you > already know the answer. > > 2. My code is running a complex Rexx environment that frankly I do not fully > understand. (I didn't write it and it isn't "mine.") I wanted to be sure I > had THE right environment block, not SOME environment block. An > 11-instruction assembler module seemed like a great solution. I still believe > that it was. > > Charles > > On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 11:31:20 +0800, David Crayford > wrote: > >> There's a TSO/E vector table that has the address of the REXX routines. >> >> // get the address of the TSO/e vector table >> CVT * cvt = *(( CVT ** ) CVTPTR); >> TSVT * tsvt = cvt->cvttvt; > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: External Functions in C on z/OS
When I first published RTK it was using some closed source code. I think it may be ok to open source it but I'll have to check with the PTB. On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 1:45 PM Farley, Peter < 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > David, > > I see at your RTK github you are only providing load modules. Is there > any chance you can you provide corresponding source for others to use as a > model for other applications (like Eric’s EZNOSQL)? The basic RTK setup > really sounds like a good fit for a CBT submission, if there are no > intellectual property issues. > > Peter > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of David Crayford > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:28 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: External Functions in C on z/OS > > > My advice is to write a command processor. As I said creating an LE > environment for each function call will result in terrible performance. > I’ve done this many times https://github.com/daveyc/RTK. The trick is to > use CEEPIPI to create a pre-initialised LE environment and hang the pointer > in USERFIELD of the REXX environment block. An alternative is to use Python > instead. It’s dead easy to write packages in C/C++ without jumping through > hoops. Writing REXX extensions in LE languages is painful which is one of > the reasons why I don’t use REXX. > > > > -- > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. > If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: External Functions in C on z/OS
There's a TSO/E vector table that has the address of the REXX routines.
// get the address of the TSO/e vector table
CVT * cvt = *(( CVT ** ) CVTPTR);
TSVT * tsvt = cvt->cvttvt;
// IKJTSVT.H - TSO/E Vector Table mapping
//
// Contains addresses of branch entered routines and control blocks.
//
??=ifdef __COMPILER_VER__
??=pragma filetag("IBM-1047")
??=endif
#ifndef TSVT_H
#define TSVT_H
#ifdef __cplusplus
extern "C" {
#endif
#pragma pack(1)
#ifdef __cplusplus
extern "OS_UPSTACK" {
#else
#pragma linkage(tsvt_rexxfunc_t,OS_UPSTACK)
#endif
typedef int tsvt_rexxfunc_t( char *, ... );
#ifdef __cplusplus
}
#endif
#ifdef __cplusplus
extern "OS_UPSTACK" {
#else
#pragma linkage(tsvt_irxterm_t,OS_UPSTACK)
#endif
typedef int tsvt_irxterm_t();
#ifdef __cplusplus
}
#endif
typedef struct tsvt TSVT;
struct tsvt {
char tsvttsvt[4]; // acronym in EBCDIC 'TSVT'
char tsvtlev; // TSVT version
char tsvtflg1;// flag indicators
char tsvtrsv1[2]; // reserved
void * tsvtnct; // address of the most current notice
void * tsvtvacc;// address of the CLIST variable access routine
void * tsvtasf; // address of the authorized service
void * tsvtltbl;// address of logon address table
void * tsvtfla1;// address of logon initialization
void * tsvtctio;// address of CLIST I/O LAR
void * tsvtctab;// address of load module containing
void * tsvtt440;// address of CLIST variable access
void * tsvtt441;// address of general variable access
void * tsvtputl;// address of PUTLINE routine
void * tsvtptgt;// address of PUTGET routine
void * tsvtgetl;// address of GETLINE routine
void * tsvtstck;// address of STACK routine
void * tsvttsl; // address of TMP LAR
void * tsvtscan;// address of scan routine
void * tsvtpars;// address of parse routine
void * tsvtef02;// address of message writer routine
void * tsvttpvt;// address of TPVT
void * tsvtrcvy;// address of recovery routine ikjcmdrc
void * tsvttran;// IKJTRANS
char tsvtbcmt[8]; // member token for broadcast notice XCF group
void * tsvtcaf; // clist attention facility addr rel 3
struct {
char tsvtlver;//- VERSIONLEVEL
char tsvtlrel[2]; //- RELEASE NUMBER
char tsvtlmod;//- MODIFICATION LEVEL
} tsvttsol;
void *tsvtctdb; // ADDRESS OF DOUBLE BYTE CHAR ROUTINE
void *tsvtrif; // BROADCAST DATA SET INTERFACE
void *tsvtraf; // LOGON RACF SUPPORT ROUTINE ADDRESS
void *tsvtrtrp; // TSO ROUTER ADDRESS
void *tsvttbls; // ADDRESS OF TABLE LOOK UP SERVICE
void *tsvtadtb; // ADDRESS OF ALTLIB
void *tsvttblr; // ADDRESS OF TABLE LOOKUP SERVICE RTN
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxestk1; // Address of IRXESTK1
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxtvars; // Address of IRXTVARS
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxinit; // Address of IRXINIT
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxiolar; // Address of IRXIOLAR
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxsto00; // Address of IRXSTO00
void * ikjct44x; // Address of IKJCT44X
void * ikjefts2; // Address of IKJEFTS2
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxexec; // Address of IRXEXEC
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxinout; // Address of IRXINOUT
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxload; // Address of IRXLOAD
tsvt_irxterm_t *irxterm;
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxsubcm; // Address of IRXSUBCM
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxmsgid; // Address of IRXMSGID
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxexcom; // Address of IRXEXCOM
tsvt_rexxfunc_t *irxterma; // Address of IRXTERMA
void * tsvtetvp; // Address of Exit & Vector Table
void * tsvttsfi; // Address of IKJEFTSI
void * tsvttsft; // Address of IKJEFTST
inttsvtpcn1; // PC number for IKJPCENV
void * tsvtsnta; // System copy of the SNTAB
void * tsvtsvta; // System copy of the SVTAB
inttsvtsyml; // Length of system SNTAB and SVTAB
inttsvtxcfu; // Lock for parmlib updating
void * tsvtmstr; // Address of Master ASCB
inttsvtbecb; // ECB for IKJBCMSG
void * tsvtappc; // Addr of APPC callable service table
void * tsvturps; // Address of IKJURPS module
inttsvtpcn2; // PC number for IKJCMDPC
void * tsvtmsr0; // Address of IKJMSR0 module
void * tsvtmdt_; // Address of module table
inttsvtsecb; // ECB for broadcast switches
void * tsvtswas; // Address of ASCB for address space
void * tsvtswwa; // Address of switch processing work area
void * tsvtswcb; // Address of switch control block
int_filler1[7]; // Reserved
double tsvtend; // ASSURE TSVT ENDS ON DOUBLE WORD
};
// Values for field "tsvtend" */
#define TSVERETR 1// RETURN VARIABLE VALUE
#define TSVEUPDT 2// UPDATE VARIABLE
#define TSVELOC 3// LOCATE / LOCATE NEXT
#define TSVERSVD 4// RESERVED
#define TSVNOIMP 18 // NO IMPLICIT @ZA87430
#define TSVROK 0// EVERY THING OK
Re: External Functions in C on z/OS
My advice is to write a command processor. As I said creating an LE environment for each function call will result in terrible performance. I’ve done this many times https://github.com/daveyc/RTK. The trick is to use CEEPIPI to create a pre-initialised LE environment and hang the pointer in USERFIELD of the REXX environment block. An alternative is to use Python instead. It’s dead easy to write packages in C/C++ without jumping through hoops. Writing REXX extensions in LE languages is painful which is one of the reasons why I don’t use REXX. > On 16 Nov 2023, at 9:24 am, Eric Erickson wrote: > > First of all thanks to Colin for sending me the headers. Before I went down > the path of generating them myself, I want to see what other had experienced > trying to do this. > > I can't use Metal C, as the routines I want to call out of the functions are > not supported under Metal C. > > FWIW, I was looking at creating a Rexx Function to retrieve a record from a > EZNOSQL Database and return it in the Rexx Variable for use. IBM has C/Java > APIs for EZNOSQL, but not Rexx at this time. There is an idea logged to > create it, but its marked as future consideration, so no telling when (or if) > it will appear. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: External Functions in C on z/OS
There isn’t an R0 issue. IRXINIT(‘FINDENVB’) will fetch the environment block. All of the REXX mapping macros have been converted to C structures and can be found in /usr/include/zos (there is a PDS/E but I can’t remember what it's called). FWIW, writing external functions in C/C++ is a bad idea unless it’s main routine. The overhead of standing up and ripping down an LE environment is huge. Metal/C is an option. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t like REXX, it’s difficult to extend with languages other than assembler which makes it useless for what I want for a glue language. > On 16 Nov 2023, at 2:06 am, Charles Mills wrote: > > @Peter, I went around on the R0 question here a couple of years ago. > > - No, I don't think there is a reliable way to get the entry R13 from within > the C/C++ code. Obviously, if you could, then any other register is trivial. > > - Yes, people suggested inline assembler. I rejected that approach -- it may > be completely viable but I rejected it -- because > > a. I am just not a fan of inline assembler. Call it personal preference. I > think the syntax seems kludgey. I prefer an external module written in "real" > assembler. I fully accept that this is just my personal opinion and others > who think otherwise are just as valid. > b. IIRC the logic was a little bit unsupported. XLC is stable now, so it > would probably be safe, but for me that was another nail in the coffin of the > in-line assembler approach. > > The code is exactly 11 executable instructions, four of them because I set up > an eyecatcher that is not really necessary. > > I do it without a save area. I branch to the C code with the assumption that > the C code will ultimately return to *my caller* and not to me. > > FWIW, I pass R0 in the EVALBLOCK data area, a totally "safe" spot that does > not require a GETMAIN. > > Charles > > On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:54:44 +, Farley, Peter > wrote: > >> Isn’t there is some C library function (maybe unique to XLC/C++) that lets >> you get the value of R13 (current DSA pointer)? With that pointer value in >> hand, couldn’t one chain up the DSA stack to get to the saved registers at >> entry, or is that not possible? >> >> At worst, an inline ASM routine to copy the value of the current R13 to a C >> pointer variable, then chain up the DSA stack? >> >> Peter >> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >> Charles Mills >> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 12:39 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: External Functions in C on z/OS >> >> >> I see, in my C++ projects, EFPL, ENVB, EVALB and SHVB structs that appear to >> me to have been produced from IBM macros by the EDCDSECT tool. >> >> >> >> Have you looked for the IRX macros in SYS1.MACLIB? >> >> >> >> Are you familiar with EDCDSECT? >> >> >> >> Slightly changing the subject, to interface with ehe Rexx environment from a >> called function you will need the entry R0, I found no great way to get >> that. I had to write a tiny front end in assembler that passes R0 to a C/C++ >> main(). >> >> >> >> Charles >> >> >> >> On Wed, 15 Nov 20 3 10:57:14 -0600, Eric Erickson >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I've written quite a few callable external funitions for Rexx over the >>> years. On z/OS I've always used assembler as we needed to access system >>> services for a variety of tasks. I've written them in C for other platforms >>> (OS/2 & Windows) over the years. I need to write some on z/OS, but I want >>> to use C, but can not seem to find any examples or header files for the >>> Rexx Control Blocks. I can't believe nobody has done this over the years? >>> Is it even supported? >> >> >> >> -- >> >> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the >> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. >> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized >> representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >> dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail >> and delete the message and any attachments from your system. >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Anyone with zCX docker hands on?
Seeing as you're the expert here can you provide some links where people are using WireGuard to run a HA cluster in Docker without using Swarm? Like I said, I'm not a WG expert but I'm always happy to be enlightened :) On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 1:33 PM kekronbekron < 02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > I didn't misunderstand. It's a bit alarming that you'd say something is > hacky without knowing anything about it... just because it's something new > to you vs something you're familiar with. > In your perspective, using wg for docker connectivity is hacky. I don't > suppose you looked up how many people combine these two. > There's a tinge of something being right because you're doing it that way, > but I may be wrong though. > I'm a fan of Swarm too, especially suggesting its consideration before > thinking about kubernetes. > > > On Thursday, November 9th, 2023 at 10:29, David Crayford < > dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > You misunderstood my point. I'm not bashing WireGuard. I'm sure it's a > > brilliant product and all power to them. My point is that using it to > hack > > a clustering solution seems a bit odd if you have Docker Swarm to create > a > > multi-host network using the overlay protocol. I know nothing about WG, > but > > I use Docker every day. > > > > On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 10:51 AM kekronbekron < > > 02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > > > > > ... instead of hacking together solutions that don’t work? > > > > > > Say that with a straight face to the companies building or relying on > > > WireGuard and see what happens. > > > > > > On Wednesday, November 8th, 2023 at 19:30, David Crayford < > > > dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 8 Nov 2023, at 9:36 pm, Timothy Sipples sipp...@sg.ibm.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dave Jousma wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Timothy. Yep found all that, have the instance up and > working > > > > > > just fine > > > > > > > > > > > it’s the peer to peer networking that is not working. The fine > folks > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > Rocket indicate that their software is picking up the internal > > > > > > container IP, > > > > > > > > > > > and not using the Host IP causing the problem. They are working > up > > > > > > their own > > > > > > > > > > > testing, and believe that docker overlay networking can resolve > this. > > > > > > > > > > OK, it’s interesting the software works that way. > > > > > > > > What software are you referring to, Docker? That’s fundamental to how > > > > Docker networking works. Publishing ports using “-p ” > doesn’t make > > > > the services discoverable in docker containers. You meed overlay > > > > networking. TE Web is a typical clustering architecture using > > > > active/passive HA. You will also find that you can not run curl from > within > > > > a Docker image. Most docker containers are built to take up as small > a > > > > footprint as necessary so utilities like curl are not installed and > you > > > > cannot instal them using apt if security keys are not enabled, which > is > > > > best practice. > > > > > > > > > (“Thinking out loud...”) Could you run a “bigger” Linux container > > > > > image that includes a VPN tunnel (such as WireGuard) to connect > these two > > > > > peers with one another to work around the issue? > > > > > > > > Why not just use a Docker clustering such as swarm instead of hacking > > > > together solutions that don’t work? > > > > > -- > > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > > > > > > -- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Anyone with zCX docker hands on?
You misunderstood my point. I'm not bashing WireGuard. I'm sure it's a brilliant product and all power to them. My point is that using it to hack a clustering solution seems a bit odd if you have Docker Swarm to create a multi-host network using the overlay protocol. I know nothing about WG, but I use Docker every day. On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 10:51 AM kekronbekron < 02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > ... instead of hacking together solutions that don’t work? > > Say that with a straight face to the companies building or relying on > WireGuard and see what happens. > > > > On Wednesday, November 8th, 2023 at 19:30, David Crayford < > dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 8 Nov 2023, at 9:36 pm, Timothy Sipples sipp...@sg.ibm.com wrote: > > > > > > Dave Jousma wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks Timothy. Yep found all that, have the instance up and working > just fine > > > > > > > it’s the peer to peer networking that is not working. The fine folks > at > > > > > > > Rocket indicate that their software is picking up the internal > container IP, > > > > > > > and not using the Host IP causing the problem. They are working up > their own > > > > > > > testing, and believe that docker overlay networking can resolve this. > > > > > > OK, it’s interesting the software works that way. > > > > > > What software are you referring to, Docker? That’s fundamental to how > Docker networking works. Publishing ports using “-p ” doesn’t make > the services discoverable in docker containers. You meed overlay > networking. TE Web is a typical clustering architecture using > active/passive HA. You will also find that you can not run curl from within > a Docker image. Most docker containers are built to take up as small a > footprint as necessary so utilities like curl are not installed and you > cannot instal them using apt if security keys are not enabled, which is > best practice. > > > > > > > > > (“Thinking out loud...”) Could you run a “bigger” Linux container > image that includes a VPN tunnel (such as WireGuard) to connect these two > peers with one another to work around the issue? > > > > > > Why not just use a Docker clustering such as swarm instead of hacking > together solutions that don’t work? > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Anyone with zCX docker hands on?
> On 8 Nov 2023, at 9:36 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: > > Dave Jousma wrote: > >> Thanks Timothy. Yep found all that, have the instance up and working just >> fine > >> it’s the peer to peer networking that is not working. The fine folks at > >> Rocket indicate that their software is picking up the internal container IP, > >> and not using the Host IP causing the problem. They are working up their >> own > >> testing, and believe that docker overlay networking can resolve this. > > > > OK, it’s interesting the software works that way. > What software are you referring to, Docker? That’s fundamental to how Docker networking works. Publishing ports using “-p ” doesn’t make the services discoverable in docker containers. You meed overlay networking. TE Web is a typical clustering architecture using active/passive HA. You will also find that you can not run curl from within a Docker image. Most docker containers are built to take up as small a footprint as necessary so utilities like curl are not installed and you cannot instal them using apt if security keys are not enabled, which is best practice. > > (“Thinking out loud...”) Could you run a “bigger” Linux container image that > includes a VPN tunnel (such as WireGuard) to connect these two peers with one > another to work around the issue? Why not just use a Docker clustering such as swarm instead of hacking together solutions that don’t work? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Anyone with zCX docker hands on?
On 8/11/2023 8:48 pm, Jousma, David wrote: Thanks Timothy. Yep found all that, have the instance up and working just fine it’s the peer to peer networking that is not working. The fine folks at Rocket indicate that their software is picking up the internal container IP, and not using the Host IP causing the problem. They are working up their own testing, and believe that docker overlay networking can resolve this. I agree. Overlay networking is much simpler using Docker Swarm. I've never used Docker Swarm on z/CX, only vanilla and OCP. I use it with Docker Compose on my Mac to stand up stacks and it's really easy. You configure a service and it's network in a YAML config file and refer to that service for hostname configs. Good luck Dave. Let us know how you go! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Anyone with zCX docker hands on?
To clarify, you are mentioning Rocket Terminal Emulator Web (TE Web), which serves as a Node.js-based backend application, offering a web-based user interface. I personally use it on my Mac and have found it to be superior to other alternatives. If you intend to set up zCX for high availability, it would involve running zCX instances on different LPARs. To achieve this, you'll likely need Docker Swarm for creating a cluster that operates across multiple nodes. While OpenShift (Kubernetes) is a more advanced option, it comes with much higher operational costs in terms of resource usage. OpenShift 4.13 offers incremental improvements, we've been told it's expected that further enhancements will be introduced over time. TE Web can be deployed on z/OS UNIX without issues, but I assume your goal is to leverage zCX for offloading to zIIP engines. In our case, we deploy our TE Web cluster on x86 Linux VMs, although the best choice may depend on your IT infrastructure and relationships with distributed teams. For any zCX-related inquiries, I recommend joining the System Z Enthusiasts Discord channel, where you can connect with IBM experts who have experience working on zCX and engage in discussions on this topic. On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 3:09 AM Jousma, David < 01a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Matt, > > I should have expounded at bit further.We’ll do load balancing for > these zCX servers via F5 switch technology. Its Rocket RTE that can setup > a comm channel between the nodes to keep everything in sync. That’s the > problem I am trying to solve. > > Dave Jousma > Vice President | Director, Technology Engineering > > > > > > From: Jousma, David > Date: Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 2:05 PM > To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > Subject: Re: Anyone with zCX docker hands on? > Matt, It’s vanilla zCX. I have a separate Openshift POC going in other > containers. That’s an animal of its own too. > > Dave Jousma > Vice President | Director, Technology Engineering > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Matt Hogstrom > Date: Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 1:44 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Anyone with zCX docker hands on? > Is this zCX or are you also using OCP on top? OCP via K8s makes the > scaling and network admin easier but its a chargeable feature. Matt > Hogstrom matt@ hogstrom. org “It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t > intuitive. " — Hogstrom > On Nov 7, 2023, > > > Is this zCX or are you also using OCP on top? OCP via K8s makes the > scaling and network admin easier but its a chargeable feature. > > > > Matt Hogstrom > > m...@hogstrom.org > > > > > > This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may > be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If > you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate > it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is > prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender > that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your > computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations
Rocket made the decision to remove the cURL CLI following a request from the sales team aimed at reducing runtime dependencies. It's important to note that Dave may gain access to Rocket Open AppDev for Z if he possesses commercial support from IBM. To the best of my knowledge, IBM offers enterprise support for Git to DBB customers. Nevertheless, some customers prefer to exclusively engage with IBM for a single point of contact. Rocket has bundled a range of ported tools into Rocket Open AppDev for Z, which can be found at https://www.rocketsoftware.com/products/rocket-open-source/rocket-open-appdev-z. This solution not only provides enterprise support but also offers the flexibility to choose between public, private, or on-premises conda channels or SMP/E. For on-premises usage, you have the option to utilize Artifactory, SonaType Nexus, or similar repository management systems. Regarding conda, it offers more than just package management; it also excels at effectively managing environments. Although our current internal baseline environment remains stable and receives periodic updates, there are instances where the need arises to employ different package versions. For example, while our baseline Python version is Python 3.9, I often work on projects that depend on Python 3.11.4 (zIIP). Conda simplifies the process of switching between various software versions using "conda env activate," offering a considerable efficiency advantage over dealing with environment files. Conda also supports multiple languages and environments, making it a versatile tool that can replace the likes of pip, npm, luarocks, and more. For those managing an on-prem channel, which should be of interest to mainframe sites, conda may be the optimal solution. You can find more information about conda at https://docs.conda.io/en/latest/. It's worth mentioning that the introduction of a package manager for installing ported tools hasn't been well-received by traditional sysprogs who prefer the simplicity of downloading a tarball. On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 12:25 AM Kirk Wolf wrote: > IBM removed cURL with a PTF? Wow. > > It sounds like you found a solution - going to the anaconda site that > Rocket's miniconda uses and grabbing manually. > > I do understand why Rocket would want to use anaconda/miniconda, since it > handles things like dependencies and other actions needed for > installation. They also want to distinguish their support vs free so it's > understandable why they leave things out. > > Do you have an option of using a sandbox LPAR that *is* on the internet to > manage Rocket packages and updates? Then you could backup the filesystem > and move it to your air gapped systems. > > Kirk Wolf > Dovetailed Technologies > http:// <http://dovetail.com>coztoolkit.com > > On Fri, Nov 3, 2023, at 6:44 PM, Jousma, David wrote: > > We do pay for GIT client support through IBM, which I realize is > actually rocket support behind the scenes.cURL used to come packaged > with GIT client but was removed with IBM ptf. > > > > I was able to just go to the public anaconda website, and download the > cURL tarball, upload it, and expand it and clone it where needed. Our > Jenkins pipeline needs it. > > > > Dave Jousma > > > > Vice President | Director, Technology Engineering > > > > > > Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand > Rapids, MI 49546 > > > > 616.653.8429 > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > behalf of David Crayford > > Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 7:01:11 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations > > > > > On 3 Nov 2023, at 10: 32 pm, Paul Gilmartin > <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-request@ LISTSERV. UA. EDU> wrote: > > On Fri, 3 > Nov 2023 19: 42: 15 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >> >> Yes. But you still > need the internet .. . >> > > > > > > > On 3 Nov 2023, at 10:32 pm, Paul Gilmartin < > 042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 19:42:15 +0800, David Crayford wrote: > > >> > > >> Yes. But you still need the internet ... > > >> > > > What's the alternative? Railway Express? Dialup modem? > > > > A lot of customers air-gap their mainframe systems so you can’t use > package managers. Colin Paice opened an issue for my pyzfile Python package > to document installation methods on air-gapped systems > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/discussion/reading-an-mvs-dataset-using-z-open-automation-utility__;!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!nVlHVMjwgMI8doNcGXgOJIwnci0yoWLQREmOo_7c
Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations
> On 4 Nov 2023, at 7:44 am, Jousma, David > <01a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > We do pay for GIT client support through IBM, which I realize is actually > rocket support behind the scenes.cURL used to come packaged with GIT > client but was removed with IBM ptf. cURL is a pre-req for Git. IMO, this is a PE. I’ve asked the question at Rocket but I think you should open a case with IBM. > > I was able to just go to the public anaconda website, and download the cURL > tarball, upload it, and expand it and clone it where needed. Our Jenkins > pipeline needs it. > > Dave Jousma > > Vice President | Director, Technology Engineering > > > Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand Rapids, > MI 49546 > > 616.653.8429 > ________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > David Crayford > Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 7:01:11 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations > >> On 3 Nov 2023, at 10: 32 pm, Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-request@ >> LISTSERV. UA. EDU> wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 19: 42: 15 +0800, David >> Crayford wrote: >> >> Yes. But you still need the internet .. . >> > > >> On 3 Nov 2023, at 10:32 pm, Paul Gilmartin >> <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 19:42:15 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >>> >>> Yes. But you still need the internet ... >>> >> What's the alternative? Railway Express? Dialup modem? > > A lot of customers air-gap their mainframe systems so you can’t use package > managers. Colin Paice opened an issue for my pyzfile Python package to > document installation methods on air-gapped systems > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/discussion/reading-an-mvs-dataset-using-z-open-automation-utility__;!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!nVlHVMjwgMI8doNcGXgOJIwnci0yoWLQREmOo_7c-J1hWzEQQaXiHBinMK7zqEFHNnMuAhcKDi1m24hwsjs$. > > Dave Jousma seems to have found a solution to his problem. Rocket provide an > off-line channel for ported tools but it’s only available to customers with > commercial support, in which case you have the choice of SMP/E. Most > customers that are using ported tools for critical work, such as Git, have > commercial support. Z/OS Open Tools is a great alternative if you only > require free tools. They have ported tools not available from Rocket, such as > nano, which most ISPF users will find easier to use then vim. > >> >> -- >> gil >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be > privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you > receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in > any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please > reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was > misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your > assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations
Thanks for the feedback Dave (and RS). I wish Rocket still had download links to the tarballs, or even better, pax files. I find this particularly useful when downloading new versions of Python from IBM, albeit once I’ve had to go through a couple of web forms to eventually get the link URL so I can curl it down. I’ll feed it back to the PT team. > On 4 Nov 2023, at 7:44 am, Jousma, David > <01a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > We do pay for GIT client support through IBM, which I realize is actually > rocket support behind the scenes.cURL used to come packaged with GIT > client but was removed with IBM ptf. > > I was able to just go to the public anaconda website, and download the cURL > tarball, upload it, and expand it and clone it where needed. Our Jenkins > pipeline needs it. > > Dave Jousma > > Vice President | Director, Technology Engineering > > > Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand Rapids, > MI 49546 > > 616.653.8429 > ________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > David Crayford > Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 7:01:11 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations > >> On 3 Nov 2023, at 10: 32 pm, Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-request@ >> LISTSERV. UA. EDU> wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 19: 42: 15 +0800, David >> Crayford wrote: >> >> Yes. But you still need the internet .. . >> > > >> On 3 Nov 2023, at 10:32 pm, Paul Gilmartin >> <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 19:42:15 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >>> >>> Yes. But you still need the internet ... >>> >> What's the alternative? Railway Express? Dialup modem? > > A lot of customers air-gap their mainframe systems so you can’t use package > managers. Colin Paice opened an issue for my pyzfile Python package to > document installation methods on air-gapped systems > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/discussion/reading-an-mvs-dataset-using-z-open-automation-utility__;!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!nVlHVMjwgMI8doNcGXgOJIwnci0yoWLQREmOo_7c-J1hWzEQQaXiHBinMK7zqEFHNnMuAhcKDi1m24hwsjs$. > > Dave Jousma seems to have found a solution to his problem. Rocket provide an > off-line channel for ported tools but it’s only available to customers with > commercial support, in which case you have the choice of SMP/E. Most > customers that are using ported tools for critical work, such as Git, have > commercial support. Z/OS Open Tools is a great alternative if you only > require free tools. They have ported tools not available from Rocket, such as > nano, which most ISPF users will find easier to use then vim. > >> >> -- >> gil >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be > privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you > receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in > any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please > reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was > misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your > assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations
> On 3 Nov 2023, at 10:32 pm, Paul Gilmartin > <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 19:42:15 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >> >> Yes. But you still need the internet ... >> > What's the alternative? Railway Express? Dialup modem? A lot of customers air-gap their mainframe systems so you can’t use package managers. Colin Paice opened an issue for my pyzfile Python package to document installation methods on air-gapped systems https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/discussion/reading-an-mvs-dataset-using-z-open-automation-utility. Dave Jousma seems to have found a solution to his problem. Rocket provide an off-line channel for ported tools but it’s only available to customers with commercial support, in which case you have the choice of SMP/E. Most customers that are using ported tools for critical work, such as Git, have commercial support. Z/OS Open Tools is a great alternative if you only require free tools. They have ported tools not available from Rocket, such as nano, which most ISPF users will find easier to use then vim. > > -- > gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations
> On 3 Nov 2023, at 7:05 pm, Lionel B. Dyck wrote: > > With the z/OS Open Tools you don't need to use zopen, or any front-end, to > install any of their ports. > > For example, here is a direct link to the curl port > https://github.com/ZOSOpenTools/curlport > Yes. But you still need the internet and access to Github. Customers that are air-gapped don’t have that acces. To me it’s as broad as it’s long. I appreciate that you like zopen but to me it’s no match for a real package manager like conda which can supports virtual environments. Easier doe not mean better. > > Lionel B. Dyck <>< > Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com > Github: https://github.com/lbdyck > > “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you > are, reputation merely what others think you are.” - - - John Wooden > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Jousma, David > Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 5:30 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations > > I find having to have an entire front-end to install something that can just > be expanded with a tar or pax command way overkill. > > > > Dave Jousma > > Vice President | Director, Technology Engineering > > > Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand Rapids, > MI 49546 > > 616.653.8429 > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > David Crayford > Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 6:21:52 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations > >> On 3 Nov 2023, at 1: 59 am, Lionel B. Dyck wrote: >>>> You can get another port of curl from https: //urldefense. >> com/v3/__https: //zosopentools. github. >> io/meta/*/__;Iw!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZ >> o3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqbEMfgyiqFe5Wlf2nWnRsA$ > > >> On 3 Nov 2023, at 1:59 am, Lionel B. Dyck wrote: >> >> You can get another port of curl from >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zosopentools.github.io/meta/*/__;I >> w!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-Y >> cuyurtSKg-wqbEMfgyiqFe5Wlf2nWnRsA$ >> and it is very simple - much easier (imho) than using miniconda. > > If he’s got problems going through a proxy couldn't the same kind of problems > occur using zopen and GitHub with Github tokens? > > I don’t find using zopen to be easier to use then conda. It’s certainly > nowhere near as powerful, for example, virtual environments. I like zopen but > I find having to source .env files a PITA and slow when configured in profile > scripts. Using conda is just like using homebrew on my Mac. Hat’s off the > z/OS Open Tools devs for getting something working well enough with only > shell scripts. > >> >> We also discuss things related to the z/OS Open Tools here >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://discord.com/channels/8803224716083 >> 44597/1118254421202182185__;!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqbEMfgyiqFe5Wlf3e-1v2I$ >> and you're welcome to join us. >> >> >> Lionel B. Dyck <>< >> Website: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.lbdsoftware.com__;!!MwwqYLOC6b >> 6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqb >> EMfgyiqFe5WlfHGqYwrU$ >> Github: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/lbdyck__;!!MwwqYLOC6b6w >> hF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqbEM >> fgyiqFe5Wlfg7_GH4U$ >> >> “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you >> are, reputation merely what others think you are.” - - - John Wooden >> >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On >> Behalf Of Jousma, David >> Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 12:54 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Rocket miniconda frustrations >> >> All, >> >> I have a simple need to make cURL available in my environment. I >> downloaded, and installed MiniConda from the Rocket open source webpage. >> We are behind a proxy, and am having all sorts of problems trying to >> get that to work. >> >> Does anyone know of a way to download the needed “repository” that >> miniconda uses, and do a disconnected install? >> >> Dave Jousma >> >> >> >> This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may >> be privileged.
Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations
> On 3 Nov 2023, at 6:30 am, Jousma, David > <01a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > I find having to have an entire front-end to install something that can just > be expanded with a tar or pax command way overkill. > > Do you? I find installing Python packages much easier using pip then downloading a tarball. The first software I installed when I moved to a Mac was homebrew. Even Windows has winget and third part package managers like Chocolatey etc. I agree that for some customers the latter may be more convenient. But z/OS open tools has a front end too, zopen. I noticed that you have posted in the Rocket forum which is the right place to ask. I suggest waiting until CVE-2023-38545 is patched. > > Dave Jousma > > Vice President | Director, Technology Engineering > > > Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand Rapids, > MI 49546 > > 616.653.8429 > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> on behalf of David Crayford > mailto:dcrayf...@gmail.com>> > Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 6:21:52 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> > mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> > Subject: Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations > >> On 3 Nov 2023, at 1: 59 am, Lionel B. Dyck wrote: > > >> You can get another port of curl from https: //urldefense. com/v3/__https: >> //zosopentools. github. >> io/meta/*/__;Iw!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqbEMfgyiqFe5Wlf2nWnRsA$ > > >> On 3 Nov 2023, at 1:59 am, Lionel B. Dyck > <mailto:lbd...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> You can get another port of curl from >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zosopentools.github.io/meta/*/__;Iw!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqbEMfgyiqFe5Wlf2nWnRsA$ >> and it is very simple - much easier (imho) than using miniconda. > > If he’s got problems going through a proxy couldn't the same kind of problems > occur using zopen and GitHub with Github tokens? > > I don’t find using zopen to be easier to use then conda. It’s certainly > nowhere near as powerful, for example, virtual environments. I like zopen but > I find having to source .env files a PITA and slow when configured in profile > scripts. Using conda is just like using homebrew on my Mac. Hat’s off the > z/OS Open Tools devs for getting something working well enough with only > shell scripts. > >> >> We also discuss things related to the z/OS Open Tools here >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://discord.com/channels/880322471608344597/1118254421202182185__;!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqbEMfgyiqFe5Wlf3e-1v2I$ >> and >> you're welcome to join us. >> >> >> Lionel B. Dyck <>< >> Website: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.lbdsoftware.com__;!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqbEMfgyiqFe5WlfHGqYwrU$ >> Github: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/lbdyck__;!!MwwqYLOC6b6whF7V!k_US3TMoavpn0TTm6PL_t4rNIIj6tb_vQCrZo3Woa9SZfCu8-YcuyurtSKg-wqbEMfgyiqFe5Wlfg7_GH4U$ >> >> “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you >> are, reputation merely what others think you are.” - - - John Wooden >> >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >> Jousma, David >> Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 12:54 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Rocket miniconda frustrations >> >> All, >> >> I have a simple need to make cURL available in my environment. I >> downloaded, and installed MiniConda from the Rocket open source webpage. >> We are behind a proxy, and am having all sorts of problems trying to get >> that to work. >> >> Does anyone know of a way to download the needed “repository” that miniconda >> uses, and do a disconnected install? >> >> Dave Jousma >> >> >> >> This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may >> be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If >> you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it >> in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, >> copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is >> prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender >> that the message was misdirected. After replyin
Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations
> On 3 Nov 2023, at 1:59 am, Lionel B. Dyck wrote: > > You can get another port of curl from https://zosopentools.github.io/meta/#/ > and it is very simple - much easier (imho) than using miniconda. If he’s got problems going through a proxy couldn't the same kind of problems occur using zopen and GitHub with Github tokens? I don’t find using zopen to be easier to use then conda. It’s certainly nowhere near as powerful, for example, virtual environments. I like zopen but I find having to source .env files a PITA and slow when configured in profile scripts. Using conda is just like using homebrew on my Mac. Hat’s off the z/OS Open Tools devs for getting something working well enough with only shell scripts. > > We also discuss things related to the z/OS Open Tools here > https://discord.com/channels/880322471608344597/1118254421202182185 and > you're welcome to join us. > > > Lionel B. Dyck <>< > Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com > Github: https://github.com/lbdyck > > “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you > are, reputation merely what others think you are.” - - - John Wooden > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Jousma, David > Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 12:54 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Rocket miniconda frustrations > > All, > > I have a simple need to make cURL available in my environment. I > downloaded, and installed MiniConda from the Rocket open source webpage. > We are behind a proxy, and am having all sorts of problems trying to get > that to work. > > Does anyone know of a way to download the needed “repository” that miniconda > uses, and do a disconnected install? > > Dave Jousma > > > > This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may > be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If > you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it > in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is > prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender > that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your > computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Rocket miniconda frustrations
> On 3 Nov 2023, at 2:28 am, Matt Hogstrom wrote: > > I use the miniconda but haven’t had to deal with a proxy. > > That said, I’ll endorse Lionel’s recommendation. I’ve found that Rocket > doesn’t update the public channel (free) with the newest versions of the open > source tools. That’s interesting. It’s my understanding that the CI/CD pipeline pushed to the Miniconda envionment at the same time as the SMP/E parts are built. Do you have an example of when you have seen a mismatch? We had a public broadcast for LibCurl CVE-2023-38545. I expect the patched libcurl/curl packages to be available ASAP. > The open tools is probably a better choice as the community seems to be > going good work and is active. > > Matt Hogstrom > m...@hogstrom.org > > “It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive." > — Hogstrom > >> On Nov 2, 2023, at 1:53 PM, Jousma, David >> <01a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> All, >> >> I have a simple need to make cURL available in my environment. I >> downloaded, and installed MiniConda from the Rocket open source webpage. >> We are behind a proxy, and am having all sorts of problems trying to get >> that to work. >> >> Does anyone know of a way to download the needed “repository” that miniconda >> uses, and do a disconnected install? >> >> Dave Jousma >> >> >> >> This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may >> be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If >> you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it >> in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, >> copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is >> prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender >> that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your >> computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Cloud Storage
> On 1 Nov 2023, at 10:34 am, Jon Perryman wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 08:48:03 +0800, David Crayford wrote: > >> Sorry, OMEGAMON is a Rocket product. I know that because I work on it. >> So is SDSF, RMF, DB2 utilities, DB2 connect, IMS tools etc, etc. >> IBM have the core subsystems but the critical tools are owned by vendors. > > It's sad that IBM is selling off assets. These tools have OEM alternatives > which are equally robust. IBM must not consider these critical tools part of > their strategic vision. It sounds like they are letting OEM vendors do the > hard work and deal with the competition. It’s not sad at all. IBM would rather spend their development budget on new ventures like hybrid cloud and AI/ML. They also purchased Instana which is a great product. I work with IBM to feed it metrics from OMEGAMON. The tools are in good hands. When Rocket acquired the products the developers came with them so we have lots of ex-IBMers in the company with world class skills. > > Are these vendors able to market and sell these products or does everything > go through IBM. There's no point. IBM have the marketing power and customers would rather buy a product with support from IBM. It’s been this way for years. I’ve worked on IBM products for the last 25 years without ever working for IBM. HCL own all the PD tools like File Manager, Fault Analyzer and lots more. 21st own plethora of products sold by IBM. Rocket have their own products for cloud tape storage that they sell direct https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-mntBk32iI. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Cloud Storage
> On 1 Nov 2023, at 8:24 am, zMan wrote: > > Actually IBM keeps selling off products *and not telling the customers*. > VSE they admitted; Optim and a bunch more, they have not. You can find the > acquiring company if you look (often UNICOM), but I find it sleazy that > they do this and continue to market the products without customers knowing > that support transitioned from IBM to some company they never heard of. > > On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 1:26 PM Jon Perryman wrote: > >> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 16:51:42 +0800, David Crayford >> wrote: >> >>> I think you’re confused again John. >> >> To the contrary, it is you again who is confused. >> >>> IBM don’t own the vast majority of the z/OS products they sell. >>> They are either developed by vendors or have been sold to vendors. >>> This has been the case for decades. >> >> With the exception of open source code, it is obvious that IBM owns the >> strategic z/OS products they market. It's true that OEM vendors created >> many of their products, but IBM tends to acquire products when they become >> part of their z/OS strategy. For instance, Cloud Object Storage, JES2, >> Omegamon products, TCP, IBM C/C++ and more have become products owned by >> IBM. >> Sorry, OMEGAMON is a Rocket product. I know that because I work on it. So is SDSF, RMF, DB2 utilities, DB2 connect, IMS tools etc, etc. IBM have the core subsystems but the critical tools are owned by vendors. Other major vendors who own IBM badged products are HCL and 21st Century Software. >> It's pure speculation to say "vast" and that this has been standard >> practice for decades when we can't prove it either way. IBM doenosn't >> openly disclose which z/OS OEM products they do not own. In fact, they go >> out of their way to hide it. For instance, all the presenters for Cloud >> Tape Connector are IBM'ers and Rocket Software is not mentioned in the >> presentation. >> >>> IBM CLoud Tape Connector is owned by Rocket Software, the original and >> current vendor. >>> IBM is the business partner who brands, markets and provides L1 support. >> >> I'll take you at your word that Rocket Software owns this product, but >> this suggest that IBM doesn't consider it a strategic product. I'm not >> bashing the product in any way because it fills an important niche and >> probably does it very well. What I'm saying is that IBM purchased Cloud >> Object Storage because it's part of their strategic vision. It's use in >> products like TS7700 makes "cloud" transparent to customers where features >> like TERSING, encryption and compression are hidden from view. More >> important, IBM has the opportunity to perfect their product. I speculate >> that when the TS7700 is using IBM cloud objects, that the encryption, >> untersing and compression probably occurs in parallel with the cloud object >> transfer which significantly speeds up the process. When using a cloud >> service like Amazon S3, the TS7700 must wait for the transfer to complete >> otherwise they risk integrity issues like an incomplete transfer causing >> partial processing. Either the cloud object is completely processed or not >> processed at all. >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > > -- > zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Cloud Storage
> On 31 Oct 2023, at 8:42 am, Jon Perryman wrote: > > On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 16:35:39 +0100, Jack Zukt wrote: > >> Is there anyone out there using cloud storage for backup or dataset >> migration, using IBM Cloud Tape Connector for z/OS or Model9? > > I did a quick search and found an IBM presentation > https://conferences.gse.org.uk/2019/agenda/presentation/1775 > > I took a quick look and verified that it requires using AMATERSE on the DFDSS > file to retain the file attributes and blocking. While I don't have > experience with this, there is a lot that we can infer and when problems may > arise. Since Crayford worked for the original vendor, he should be able to > tell us whether my assumptions about the internals are correct. I think you’re confused again John. IBM CTC is owned by Rocket Software, the original and current vendor. IBM is the business partner who brands, markets and provides L1 support. IBM don’t own the vast majority of the z/OS products they sell. They are either developed by vendors or have been sold to vendors. This has been the case for decades. > > - Using DFDSS volume backup and send it to the cloud -- > > Run DFDSS backup -> AMATERSE pack -> copy to storage -> cloud put object > (volume backup) -> delete work files and free storage. > > Considerations for backup: > > 1. Do you need encryption or compression for the file sent to the cloud > object. > 2. Backup to tape drives / VTS can have much larger block sizes than disk > which means restore / recall may require these devices. > 3. Identify resources required for each backup running in parallel. If you > use disk, then potentially each backup could require 2 disks. Similar > considerations when using tape or VTS. Backup time will increase which may > require scheduling changes. > 4. Ensure a unique cloud object names for each version of a volume is > retained (e.g. GDG). > 5. Most likely the cloud object must be sent from storage and be large enough > to contain the entire backup. > > Using HSM to recall / restore file or volume -- > > Recall / restore request -> cloud get object (volume backup) to storage -> > move storage to disk -> AMATERSE unpack -> restore file / volume and delete > work files. > > 1. Considerations for recall / restore a file or a volume are the same as > backup except the steps are reversed. > 2. Recall / restore is unplanned. Look at your recall history to see if you > can handle the worst case. Are you affected by recalls after vacations? Are > you affected by yearly processing? Are there other factors that could > increase recall / restore volume? > 3. Disaster recovery must be completely reworked for using a public cloud > like Amazon. Using real tape meant you aren't affected by other departments > also recovering from the disaster. Cloud recovery means that you could be > competing for a critical resource when others inside and outside of your > company. Imagine an earthquake in Los Angeles where you potentially use the > same recovery services. > 4. Do you only restore the OS and require various departments to HRESTORE > their files? While running concurrently, will this over burden your disk, > tape and storage usage during an extreme and unusual situation when people > are under extreme pressure? Will these restores be inefficient because the > same backup volume is downloaded multiple times. > > Using an IBM TS7700 VTS would certainly be far less painful and more > transparent than this product. Any company can make this work but it will > require commitment to review, revise and change their processes. This is not > a simple change of medium. Ignoring the implications and impacts will cause > major grief when you can least tolerate it. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Does z/VM have a product/tool which can send backup to the Cloud ?
> On 26 Oct 2023, at 1:48 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: > > Jon Perryman wrote: >> Googles cloud backup/recovery is very different from IBM z/OS > > You headed off on a tangent here that I don’t think I encouraged. I’m not > sure what you’re referring to. As usual! > >> No IBM z system has cloud backup. You can't backup z/OS to >> any other cloud than that provided by TS7700. > > Yes, you really can! There are software-only cloud object storage > backup/restore solutions for z/OS. The two IBM products that are most > directly relevant are: > > IBM Cloud Tape Connector for z/OS That’s one of our products. Our team was only talking about it this week. One of the team had just returned from customer visits in SE Asia and quite a few muti-national banks are using CTC so they can recover to data centers in different countries/continents. Everybody uses AWS S3. As you already mentioned, you can use zones and also replicate to other zones in different locales. When my previous company were acquired by Rocket Software we used AWS S3 to migrate our storage to the new machines. Modern internet bandwidth’s are orders of magnitude faster than what they were a decade ago. The entire process was seamless. In the old days we would have to dump everything to tape and put it on plane! > IBM Advanced Archive for DFSMShsm > > These products are available individually or in the IBM Advanced Storage > Management Suite for z/OS license package. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler access to USS functions
> On 7 Oct 2023, at 6:28 am, Kirk Wolf wrote:
>
> This is a thread that won't die.
And there has been some absolute tosh spouted!
>
> In z/OS, environment variables are in Language Environment, in the CEEEDB
> ("Enclave Data Block"). If your assembler code is running in LE, you can
> access/set them. An empty table is created when the enclave is initialized,
> which can be BEFORE dubbing which happens at the first kernel call.Look
> in the LE books if you don't believe me.
I believe you. It’s dependent on the OS. On Linux environment variables are
stored in the proc file system, /proc//environ. Whoever stated it’s part
of the C runtime doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
>
> Kirk Wolf
> Dovetailed Technologies
> http:// coztoolkit.com
>
> On Thu, Oct 5, 2023, at 8:15 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> The issue isn't what has access to environmental variables, but rather what
>> creates them.
>>
>> Further, they are useful in other contexts. An otherwise legacy program that
>> uses a Unix command may need to pass the odd environment variable to control
>> options for which there are no switches.
>>
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Jon Perryman
>> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 9:06 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Assembler access to USS functions
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Oct 2023 20:54:56 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>>
>>> Even if you have an OMVS segment, you don't get dubbed ntil you use a Unix
>>> service.
>>
>> Environment variables are not unique to UNIX and do not require dubbing. It
>> is a feature of the C/C++ language that is in the STDLIB (standard library)
>> and can be used in any environment.
>>
>> Environment variables are only useful in languages that do not support
>> global variables or inter-language global variables is not supported. I
>> suspect that C and Cobol global variables are shared because of LE.
>> Languages like shells, Python, Java and others which are runtime languages
>> don't have access to C and Cobol global variables which makes environment
>> variables a simple inter-language-communications feature.
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Any recommendations for a 3270 emulator for Android
> On 27 Sep 2023, at 11:50 pm, Pommier, Rex wrote: > > If their idea is that other emulators are "outdated" because "ours is browser > based", guess what. I can't talk of Attachmate et al, but Rocket Passport > HAS a browser based 3270 emulator. And just because something is browser > based doesn't automatically make it better or the others outdated. > > Now, what I would be interested in seeing is how a browser based terminal > emulator will be able to replace a full function session manager. > I’ve been using Rocket Terminal Emulator Web since I moved to a Mac. I was a long term Vista user and while I prefer Vista RTE Web is a great product. It is full featured other than GDDM which I don’t care about. I have adapted. The benefits are that a single Node.js instance can server hundreds if not thousands of clients. 3270 not a heavyweight wire protocol and Node.js is designed for multiplexing on a single thread. You can deploy it on z/OS but I would recommend distributed Linux which has real epoll and not emulation using poll. It get’s updated regularly which some would consider a benefit as opposed to having to download a desktop app. It has tabs which is nice. > Rex > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Bob Bridges > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2023 2:14 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Any recommendations for a 3270 emulator for Android > > "Outdated" terminal emulators? They wish. Not that I have anything against > new and especially better ideas. But I think Attachmate, Rocket, QWS3270 and > others work just fine. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* There are few things more discouraging to the mind that likes to believe > it is master in its own house, than the unquestionable effect of a full > belly. -from The Mauritius Command by Patrick O'Brian */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Bob T Roller > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 19:35 > > I recently received an email advertisement for a product called “Virtel Web > Access,the browser-based 3270 emulation technology to replace outdated TN3270 > terminal emulators(like PCOMM, Attachmate, Rocket/BlueZone and more), also > can replace expensive VTAM session managers(like TPX, CL/SuperSession, Tubes, > and more).” > > I don’t have any experience with it. > > --- On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 7:26 PM, Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org] wrote: >> Anyone have personal recommendations for a 3270 emulator for Android phones >> and/or tablets? >> >> Android, NOT Windows -- you would have to pry Vista out of my cold, dead >> fingers. >> >> I certainly don't intend to do heads-down coding on my phone. This is just >> so I could respond to a client emergency without having to lug my laptop >> around. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Building AMODE 31 Assembler DLL
It’s documented in the book. EXPORT=YES https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=wdc-writing-your-language-environment-conforming-assembler-dll-code > On 15 Sep 2023, at 03:03, Eric Erickson wrote: > > I've found a bunch of information on creating AMODE 64 Assembler DLLs, but > having much luck in finding any information about creating AMODE31 Assembler > DLLs. > > I've got a bunch of LE enabled assembler helper routines that I call from C, > I want to package these all as a DLL so that I can share the code between > load modules and not have to statically link them. But as I've stated, not > having much luck in finding information on doing this for AMODE 31. In fact > my biggest question that I can not seem to find the info about in the manual, > is if I have an assembler routine, how do I specify that I want the entry > point exported when I do the bind. Without the export I don't get the > side-deck created with the import statements. > > > Ultimately I would like to take these routines and package them with my AMODE > 31 C DLL routines as a mixed C/Assembler DLL for sharing between my load > modules. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
> On 14 Sep 2023, at 10:39 am, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Ray’s words. Cut and pasted from his response to a question about the > direction of assembler programming. > > “I'll be honest - it's getting smaller and smaller. It's become a niche, > mainly for system tools ISVs. Metal C is where the invisible hand of IBM is > pushing the industry.” > Maybe Ray chip in? I think he was referring to new applications. The fact is that a huge amount of products that run the mainframe are written in assembler. > > There is nothing to indicate assembler programming is growing and in fact it > is shrinking by approximately 5% a year. > > AI is going to grow exponentially. For decades. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:59 PM, David Crayford > wrote: > >> On 14 Sep 2023, at 9:37 am, Bill Johnson >> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> Potential positions? Either you have positions or you don’t. Or, you have >> positions and no applicants. Which once again proves my point. > > Check our website which has all open positions. > >> Don’t waste your time learning a dying skill. As stated by Assembler expert >> Ray Mullins. >> > > I worked for the same company as Ray. Great guy, total respect. I’m sure if > you asked him he would acknowledge that the huge amount of assembler code in > mission critical products needs to be supported for decades. > >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:00 PM, David Crayford >> wrote: >> >> We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me >> your resume if you’re interested. >> >>> On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: >>> >>> I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here >>> encouraged me to do so. >>> >>> My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion >>> and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable >>> enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a >>> higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may >>> not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. >>> >>> I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with >>> carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but >>> those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand >>> due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those >>> who do it make good money and have plenty of work.People who specialize >>> in repairing antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a >>> job anywhere - but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. >>> >>> As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for >>> assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. >>> >>> On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: >>>> I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what >>>> you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I >>>> was the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big >>>> greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the >>>> one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies >>>> for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that >>>> "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the >>>> lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an >>>> your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is >>>> I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out >>>> the software that no one else had time for. >>>> >>>> I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're >>>> interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned >>>> tasks that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then >>>> I'm useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do >>>> some of the things I'm especially good at too. >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >>>> &g
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
> On 14 Sep 2023, at 9:37 am, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Potential positions? Either you have positions or you don’t. Or, you have > positions and no applicants. Which once again proves my point. Check our website which has all open positions. > Don’t waste your time learning a dying skill. As stated by Assembler expert > Ray Mullins. > I worked for the same company as Ray. Great guy, total respect. I’m sure if you asked him he would acknowledge that the huge amount of assembler code in mission critical products needs to be supported for decades. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:00 PM, David Crayford > wrote: > > We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me > your resume if you’re interested. > >> On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: >> >> I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here >> encouraged me to do so. >> >> My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion >> and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable >> enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a >> higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may >> not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. >> >> I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. >> Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have >> a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the >> 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make >> good money and have plenty of work.People who specialize in repairing >> antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - >> but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. >> >> As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for >> assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. >> >> On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: >>> I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what >>> you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was >>> the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big >>> greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the >>> one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies >>> for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that >>> "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the >>> lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an >>> your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is >>> I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out >>> the software that no one else had time for. >>> >>> I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're >>> interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks >>> that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm >>> useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some >>> of the things I'm especially good at too. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a >>> little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >>> Arthur Fichtl >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 >>> >>> As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find >>> a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, >>> analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. >>> >>> My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore >>> I for myself had a quite secure job. >>> >>> And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch >>> cards as the user interface. Quite funny. >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >&
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me your resume if you’re interested. > On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: > > I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here > encouraged me to do so. > > My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion and > become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable enough > to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a higher rate > than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may not be a lot > of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. > > I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. > Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have > a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the > 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make > good money and have plenty of work.People who specialize in repairing > antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - > but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. > > As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for assembler > programmers. That's my opinion, at least. > > On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: >> I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you >> turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the >> only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar >> printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks >> came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At >> another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get >> you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone >> fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your >> resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I >> ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the >> software that no one else had time for. >> >> I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're >> interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks >> that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm >> useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some >> of the things I'm especially good at too. >> >> --- >> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >> >> /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a >> little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ >> >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >> Arthur Fichtl >> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 >> >> As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a >> market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis >> of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. >> >> My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore I >> for myself had a quite secure job. >> >> And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch >> cards as the user interface. Quite funny. >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scan a VSAM LDS?
> On 13 Sep 2023, at 12:39 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > You could use windowing.Look at CSRIDAC if you don't want to use assembler. > That’s an excellent suggestion even if you are using assembler. The interface is much simpler. > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Billy Ashton > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 11:19 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Scan a VSAM LDS? > > Hey everyone! > I was wondering if there is a way to scan a VSAM LDS for string > occurrences? I know that there is no way to see the individual records, > but it could be helpful if I could at least dump the data block where > the string was found. > > As an example, something like this: > OPTION COPY > RECORD TYPE=V > INCLUDE COND=(5,24576,SS,EQ,C'MBC$23005X') > > (I don't know if I need special statements for VSAM LDS...I couldn't > find any indication in the docs.) > > Thank you and best regards, > Billy Ashton > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AI expert hot new position.
> On 12 Sep 2023, at 9:50 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: > >> All the Utilities were written in PL/S, now PL/X. > > Can you say GENERATE? Yes, I can. And there is a small fraction of GENERATE code as it’s not needed. It’s usually coded by HLASM programmers who don’t want to learn PL/X. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AI expert hot new position.
> On 12 Sep 2023, at 9:11 pm, David Spiegel > <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Hi Bill, > Never happen? > If you were a systems programmer and were doing a z/OS upgrade, you would > probably have to repair some SMF, JES2 and Security Exits a lot more than > "almost never". > Everybody would like to get rid of assembler, especially in application programs and exits. There was a lot of work in the 90s and naughties decommissioning those exits which still isn’t complete. For vendors and subsystems like IMS it’s so pervasive you can’t get rid of it. Even with PL/X becoming popular all of the interrupt handlers are still written in assembler. Same for the syscall SVC in zLinux. > Regards, > David > > On 2023-09-12 08:56, Bill Johnson wrote: >> Making up scenarios that never or almost never happen. >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023, 8:53 AM, David Spiegel >> <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> Hi Jon, >> Now that you've mentioned DB2, please tell me how to write/maintain a >> DB2 Secondary Authorization Exit WITHOUT Assembler. >> Next time my customer asks me to amend it, I will be sure to give them >> your answer. (I added logic to it to allow Informatica to authenticate >> via ACF2.) >> >> Regards,. >> David >> >> On 2023-09-12 08:04, Jon Butler wrote: >>> There will be a need for assembler programmers for quite a while, but >>> mainly because over the last forty years, and long after even COBOL II >>> added functions and a case construction in 1987, very, very clever people >>> decided they would write application modules in assembler... and not waste >>> time with comments. Today, when companies are trying to make their systems >>> Highly Available...or even convert to a cloud provider's service...no one >>> has a clue what the modules do. Many could have been easily replaced by >>> COBOL's ADDRESS OF or LENGTH OF or PL/I Pointers, but of course that would >>> have been way too easy. Very few application programs need to control >>> channels. >>> >>> When I was interviewed by the Db2 Utilities group at the Santa Teresa lab >>> in San Jose (Now Silicon Valley) in 2001, I said I suppose I needed to >>> brush up on my assembler. They laughed and said "no one uses assembler any >>> more." All the Utilities were written in PL/S, now PL/X. >>> >>> Not to denigrate assembler programmers, or those that decide to take up >>> Sanskrit, but it is a dying art. >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AI expert hot new position.
> On 12 Sep 2023, at 8:04 pm, Jon Butler wrote: > > There will be a need for assembler programmers for quite a while, YEAH! z/OS syscalls are assembler macros! No HLASM no z/OS. The sheer volume of assembler code is an existential threat to the platform as young guys don’t want to spend 10 years onboarding. > but mainly because over the last forty years, and long after even COBOL II > added functions and a case construction in 1987, very, very clever people > decided they would write application modules in assembler... and not waste > time with comments. Today, when companies are trying to make their systems > Highly Available...or even convert to a cloud provider's service...no one has > a clue what the modules do. Many could have been easily replaced by COBOL's > ADDRESS OF or LENGTH OF or PL/I Pointers, but of course that would have been > way too easy. Very few application programs need to control channels. > > When I was interviewed by the Db2 Utilities group at the Santa Teresa lab in > San Jose (Now Silicon Valley) in 2001, I said I suppose I needed to brush up > on my assembler. They laughed and said "no one uses assembler any more." > All the Utilities were written in PL/S, now PL/X. DB2 Utilities got sold a vendor and the devs moved with it. I heard an amusing story that IBM were hell bent on migrating to OO PL/X which was so buggy the CICS team in Hursley referred to it as “oh oh PL/X”. It was in the 90’s when everybody thought inheritance was a good idea but it introduced “is-a hell” and the path length of the code exploded. It was so bad that DB2 utilities were close to missing their targets and abandoned it. It was a huge blunder. A lot of new code in DB2 Utilities is done Metal/C/ > > Not to denigrate assembler programmers, or those that decide to take up > Sanskrit, but it is a dying art. Yep. For new code avoid it like the plague. But the legacy needs to be maintained. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
I find a great deal of value in reading your posts, Steve. Knowing that you have experience with Amdahl in hardware adds to my respect for your insights. > On 29 Aug 2023, at 8:35 am, Steve Thompson wrote: > > Back in the day, we worked on RAS. So we put in error detection hardware > (sometimes that was "firmware, or macrocode) and IBM and all our competitors > were doing the same. And the idea was to have redundant power supplies so > that a CE could do maint, and not take down the system. And if possible, > redundant channel paths to a device controller so that you could pull a > channel cable and replace it. > > Today, with IBM, you can add or subtract CPUs while the machine is running. > But, at least with the z15s, you could not add RAM without taking the system > down, as in power it down. > > So that would be a RAS hit, or, cause you to miss your 99.999 target. > > For people who do hardware and to some degree software (O/S stuff), you do > all you can to recover from any problem. I like VM and its ability to see it > is injured and it will IPL itself. But, to keep those SLAs, there is SSI. So > an LPAR can move its workload to another LPAR (PAIRs determined in advance > here) and keep that work running. We did this at a large health insurer so > that we could do VM upgrades with no outages. > > So how you measure that up time depends on the equipment and ability to do > HOT SWAP, and related so you do not take an outage. > > What happens if a WINTEL server running MQ buys the farm? Those inflight > transactions going through that server may time out and have to be re-driven. > Is this considered an outage? Not if you have a second one handling the load > and it takes over. But that one or 10(?) users may see an error message. Does > that count as an outage if the user only loses a few seconds in getting an > answer? Or a Pharmacy getting info? Or an OR getting info on drug > interactions? > > Need some perspective. > > Steve Thompson > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
On 29/8/2023 8:35 am, Steve Thompson wrote: What happens if a WINTEL server running MQ buys the farm? Those inflight transactions going through that server may time out and have to be re-driven. Is this considered an outage? Not if you have a second one handling the load and it takes over. But that one or 10(?) users may see an error message. Does that count as an outage if the user only loses a few seconds in getting an answer? Or a Pharmacy getting info? Or an OR getting info on drug interactions? Distributed systems are very different beasts. Mitigating network partitions has lead to the CAP theorem. Apache Kafka is a popular message broker on distributed systems and it's highly available if you run it on a least 3 nodes, which can tolerate the loss of 1 broker. 5 nodes for 2 brokers. Orchestration platforms such as Kubernetes and Open Shift make it quite easy to deploy clusters, even using availability zones for replicate to a remote data center. All brokers replicate with each other and are coordinated on the control plane using a consensus algorithm like Raft. As a mainframe guy I was blown away how anybody would find eventual consistency acceptable, but they do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAP_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raft_(algorithm) z is the king of CA systems as it's not susceptible to network partitions. That's why I find it odd why people would want to run systems like Kafka on z/OS when it's architecture is designed to run on unreliable commodity hardware. Need some perspective. Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Uptime?
> On 29 Aug 2023, at 8:18 am, Gibney, Dave > <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Yes, IBM z hardware and z/OS properly sysplexed can achieve many 9s of > reliability. I don't think this is in dispute. > But, computers are tools that perform useful things for people. It should be > clear that actual availability of application function at the outside > endpoints is not nearly as many 9s. > It's fairly clear that even IBM support sites don't run solely on Sysplexed > zHardware under z/OS achieving lot's of 9s. Nicely articulated. No matter how reliable your servers are if your network provider only offers a 99.99% SLA then your applications are not 99.999% available. IBM zCloud, which runs all the redundancy, only offers a 99.99% SLA which is perfectly reasonable and actually very good https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/2DALN6RJ. It’s become fashionable for network service providers to offer 100% availability SLA’s but as usual, the devil is in the detail. If you read the small print it’s quite clear that it’s not worth very much other than marking material for the provider. https://business.bt.com/content/dam/bt/business/v2/PDF/broadband-internet/btnet_sla.pdf > I suspect a few LPARs in Sysplex over a couple CECs running nothing but z/OS > would never need to come fully down. An expensive POC, but also pretty > useless. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
> On 29 Aug 2023, at 8:05 am, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > You’re the weakest link here. How can IBM guarantee 99.999 uptime for systems > they don’t make or support? I’ve worked for numerous companies that didn’t > have outages of the mainframe for years. Health insurance companies can get > huge fines if their systems are unavailable. I also looked on LinkedIn and > there are resumes there that claim they managed systems to 99.999 > availability. Google it. It’s promised and delivered quite often. In fact > 99.999 isn’t all that amazing any longer. > > So your claim is, if my phone dies and I can’t get to my JP Morgan accounts, > then JP Morgan doesn’t have 99.999 uptime? There is nothing more tedious than a straw man argument. It’s a good indication that somebody is trying to argue a lost cause. > No wonder they aren’t buying your crappy software. Actually, they do run our software. Almost every mainframe site runs our software. Most of them think it’s IBM software as it’s badged IBM. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:47 PM, David Crayford > wrote: > >> On 29 Aug 2023, at 7:41 am, Bill Johnson >> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> You’re ASSuming Zelle is on the mainframe. > > Why does it matter where it’s running. Banking applications are only as > reliable as their weakest link. > >> Multiple 9’s is a fact and many companies are running it. > > Prove it. Provide a link to a bank offering a 99.999% SLA on their banking > services. > >> You’re an idiot. More truth. Looks like you threaten people on the internet >> too. > > > >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >> On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:27 PM, David Crayford >> wrote: >> >> On 28/8/2023 10:21 pm, Bill Johnson wrote: >>> LOL, there’s Crayfish making stupid comments again. The difference between >>> me and Perryman is I tell the truth. IBM does offer multiple 9’s uptime. >>> And numerous banks have the setup necessary. >> >>> JP Morgan (a REAL bank) spends BILLIONS per year on IT. >> >> Yes. And they still have outages >> >> https://piunikaweb.com/2023/08/24/chase-bank-app-website-down-servers-not-working-online-and-mobile-banking-suffers/ >> https://www.americanbanker.com/news/zelle-outage-at-jpmorgan-chase-is-red-flag-for-banks >> https://piunikaweb.com/2023/08/25/wells-fargo-website-and-app-down-not-working-online-banking-suffers/ >> >> As banks rush to modernize their services the applications have become >> far more compex. Especially integrating new technologies into legacy >> systems. More points of failure. 99.999% service availability is a myth. >> >> >> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>> >>> >>> On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:15 AM, David Crayford >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 27/8/2023 11:05 am, Tom Brennan wrote: >>>> A bigger problem is Jon says things like this with such conviction and >>>> authority that other people reading these posts, perhaps years from >>>> now, will think they are true. >>> Don't engage with him! There's no point in debating with a troll. >>> >>> Lately, he's been banging on about the 99.99% availability on the >>> z16. It's clear he's either deeply ignorant or gullible. In any case, it >>> seems he missed the fine print: >>> https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/0MZVKEYJ. (Who's willing to spend tens >>> of millions of dollars to run a small Linux rack?) >>> >>> "DISCLAIMER: IBM internal data based on measurements and projections was >>> used in calculating the expected value. Necessary components include IBM >>> z16; IBM z/VM V7.2 systems collected in a Single System Image, each >>> running RHOCP 4.10 or above; >>> IBM Operations Manager; GDPS 4.5 for management of data recovery and >>> virtual machine recovery across metro distance systems and storage, >>> including Metro Multi-site workload and GDPS Global; and IBM DS8000 >>> series storage with IBM HyperSwap. A >>> MongoDB v4.2 workload was used. Necessary resiliency technology must be >>> enabled, including z/VM Single System Image clustering, GDPS xDR Proxy >>> for z/VM, and RedHat OpenShift Data Foundation (ODF) 4.10 for management >>> of local storage devices. >>> Application-induced outages
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
> On 29 Aug 2023, at 7:41 am, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > You’re ASSuming Zelle is on the mainframe. Why does it matter where it’s running. Banking applications are only as reliable as their weakest link. > Multiple 9’s is a fact and many companies are running it. Prove it. Provide a link to a bank offering a 99.999% SLA on their banking services. > You’re an idiot. More truth. Looks like you threaten people on the internet > too. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:27 PM, David Crayford > wrote: > > On 28/8/2023 10:21 pm, Bill Johnson wrote: >> LOL, there’s Crayfish making stupid comments again. The difference between >> me and Perryman is I tell the truth. IBM does offer multiple 9’s uptime. And >> numerous banks have the setup necessary. > >> JP Morgan (a REAL bank) spends BILLIONS per year on IT. > > Yes. And they still have outages > > https://piunikaweb.com/2023/08/24/chase-bank-app-website-down-servers-not-working-online-and-mobile-banking-suffers/ > https://www.americanbanker.com/news/zelle-outage-at-jpmorgan-chase-is-red-flag-for-banks > https://piunikaweb.com/2023/08/25/wells-fargo-website-and-app-down-not-working-online-banking-suffers/ > > As banks rush to modernize their services the applications have become > far more compex. Especially integrating new technologies into legacy > systems. More points of failure. 99.999% service availability is a myth. > > > >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >> On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:15 AM, David Crayford >> wrote: >> >> On 27/8/2023 11:05 am, Tom Brennan wrote: >>> A bigger problem is Jon says things like this with such conviction and >>> authority that other people reading these posts, perhaps years from >>> now, will think they are true. >> Don't engage with him! There's no point in debating with a troll. >> >> Lately, he's been banging on about the 99.99% availability on the >> z16. It's clear he's either deeply ignorant or gullible. In any case, it >> seems he missed the fine print: >> https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/0MZVKEYJ. (Who's willing to spend tens >> of millions of dollars to run a small Linux rack?) >> >> "DISCLAIMER: IBM internal data based on measurements and projections was >> used in calculating the expected value. Necessary components include IBM >> z16; IBM z/VM V7.2 systems collected in a Single System Image, each >> running RHOCP 4.10 or above; >> IBM Operations Manager; GDPS 4.5 for management of data recovery and >> virtual machine recovery across metro distance systems and storage, >> including Metro Multi-site workload and GDPS Global; and IBM DS8000 >> series storage with IBM HyperSwap. A >> MongoDB v4.2 workload was used. Necessary resiliency technology must be >> enabled, including z/VM Single System Image clustering, GDPS xDR Proxy >> for z/VM, and RedHat OpenShift Data Foundation (ODF) 4.10 for management >> of local storage devices. >> Application-induced outages are not included in the above measurements. >> Other configurations (hardware or software) may provide different >> availability characteristics." >> >> Could it be that Jon Perryman is actually Bill Johnson in disguise, >> using ChatGPT to compose his posts? Does he have a Linkedin profile >> where we can read he's credentials? >> >>> On 8/26/2023 7:31 PM, David Spiegel wrote: >>>> Hi Jon, >>>> You said: "...The M in SMP/e stands for Maintenance ..." >>>> This statement has NEVER been true. >>>> The M is an abbreviation of Modification and it has ALWAYS been this >>>> way. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> David >>>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
On 28/8/2023 10:21 pm, Bill Johnson wrote: LOL, there’s Crayfish making stupid comments again. The difference between me and Perryman is I tell the truth. IBM does offer multiple 9’s uptime. And numerous banks have the setup necessary. JP Morgan (a REAL bank) spends BILLIONS per year on IT. Yes. And they still have outages https://piunikaweb.com/2023/08/24/chase-bank-app-website-down-servers-not-working-online-and-mobile-banking-suffers/ https://www.americanbanker.com/news/zelle-outage-at-jpmorgan-chase-is-red-flag-for-banks https://piunikaweb.com/2023/08/25/wells-fargo-website-and-app-down-not-working-online-banking-suffers/ As banks rush to modernize their services the applications have become far more compex. Especially integrating new technologies into legacy systems. More points of failure. 99.999% service availability is a myth. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:15 AM, David Crayford wrote: On 27/8/2023 11:05 am, Tom Brennan wrote: A bigger problem is Jon says things like this with such conviction and authority that other people reading these posts, perhaps years from now, will think they are true. Don't engage with him! There's no point in debating with a troll. Lately, he's been banging on about the 99.99% availability on the z16. It's clear he's either deeply ignorant or gullible. In any case, it seems he missed the fine print: https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/0MZVKEYJ. (Who's willing to spend tens of millions of dollars to run a small Linux rack?) "DISCLAIMER: IBM internal data based on measurements and projections was used in calculating the expected value. Necessary components include IBM z16; IBM z/VM V7.2 systems collected in a Single System Image, each running RHOCP 4.10 or above; IBM Operations Manager; GDPS 4.5 for management of data recovery and virtual machine recovery across metro distance systems and storage, including Metro Multi-site workload and GDPS Global; and IBM DS8000 series storage with IBM HyperSwap. A MongoDB v4.2 workload was used. Necessary resiliency technology must be enabled, including z/VM Single System Image clustering, GDPS xDR Proxy for z/VM, and RedHat OpenShift Data Foundation (ODF) 4.10 for management of local storage devices. Application-induced outages are not included in the above measurements. Other configurations (hardware or software) may provide different availability characteristics." Could it be that Jon Perryman is actually Bill Johnson in disguise, using ChatGPT to compose his posts? Does he have a Linkedin profile where we can read he's credentials? On 8/26/2023 7:31 PM, David Spiegel wrote: Hi Jon, You said: "...The M in SMP/e stands for Maintenance ..." This statement has NEVER been true. The M is an abbreviation of Modification and it has ALWAYS been this way. Regards, David -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
> On 28 Aug 2023, at 10:21 pm, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > And numerous banks have the setup necessary. JP Morgan (a REAL bank) spends > BILLIONS per year on IT. I hope so. They’re doing a PoC for one of our products at the moment. But they think it’s too expensive :( -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
> On 28 Aug 2023, at 9:22 pm, David Spiegel > <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Hi David, > You said: "... he's been banging on ..." > This reminds me of a Yiddish expression that fits with this theme (and is > said to the "bang"er): Hack Mir Nisht Kain Chainik! > (In English, Don't bang the tea kettle for me! (i.e. stop blathering)) That's actually pretty interesting, and I hadn't really thought about it before. I grew up in North West London, an area with a big Yiddish community spread across places like Saint John’s Wood, Hampstead, and especially Golders Green and Stamford Hill. When we were kids, we'd often take the 32 bus to the Bagel Bar in Hendon for some delicious salt beef and mustard bagels. The London slang we use, like Cockney, has been shaped by Yiddish over the years. I've got loads of Jewish friends from back in the day, so maybe I picked up the expression from them? > On 2023-08-28 07:15, David Crayford wrote: >> On 27/8/2023 11:05 am, Tom Brennan wrote: >>> A bigger problem is Jon says things like this with such conviction and >>> authority that other people reading these posts, perhaps years from now, >>> will think they are true. >> >> Don't engage with him! There's no point in debating with a troll. >> >> Lately, he's been banging on about the 99.99% availability on the z16. >> It's clear he's either deeply ignorant or gullible. In any case, it seems he >> missed the fine print: https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/0MZVKEYJ. (Who's >> willing to spend tens of millions of dollars to run a small Linux rack?) >> >> "DISCLAIMER: IBM internal data based on measurements and projections was >> used in calculating the expected value. Necessary components include IBM >> z16; IBM z/VM V7.2 systems collected in a Single System Image, each running >> RHOCP 4.10 or above; >> IBM Operations Manager; GDPS 4.5 for management of data recovery and virtual >> machine recovery across metro distance systems and storage, including Metro >> Multi-site workload and GDPS Global; and IBM DS8000 series storage with IBM >> HyperSwap. A >> MongoDB v4.2 workload was used. Necessary resiliency technology must be >> enabled, including z/VM Single System Image clustering, GDPS xDR Proxy for >> z/VM, and RedHat OpenShift Data Foundation (ODF) 4.10 for management of >> local storage devices. >> Application-induced outages are not included in the above measurements. >> Other configurations (hardware or software) may provide different >> availability characteristics." >> >> Could it be that Jon Perryman is actually Bill Johnson in disguise, using >> ChatGPT to compose his posts? Does he have a Linkedin profile where we can >> read he's credentials? >> >>> >>> On 8/26/2023 7:31 PM, David Spiegel wrote: >>>> Hi Jon, >>>> You said: "...The M in SMP/e stands for Maintenance ..." >>>> This statement has NEVER been true. >>>> The M is an abbreviation of Modification and it has ALWAYS been this way. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> David >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
On 27/8/2023 11:05 am, Tom Brennan wrote: A bigger problem is Jon says things like this with such conviction and authority that other people reading these posts, perhaps years from now, will think they are true. Don't engage with him! There's no point in debating with a troll. Lately, he's been banging on about the 99.99% availability on the z16. It's clear he's either deeply ignorant or gullible. In any case, it seems he missed the fine print: https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/0MZVKEYJ. (Who's willing to spend tens of millions of dollars to run a small Linux rack?) "DISCLAIMER: IBM internal data based on measurements and projections was used in calculating the expected value. Necessary components include IBM z16; IBM z/VM V7.2 systems collected in a Single System Image, each running RHOCP 4.10 or above; IBM Operations Manager; GDPS 4.5 for management of data recovery and virtual machine recovery across metro distance systems and storage, including Metro Multi-site workload and GDPS Global; and IBM DS8000 series storage with IBM HyperSwap. A MongoDB v4.2 workload was used. Necessary resiliency technology must be enabled, including z/VM Single System Image clustering, GDPS xDR Proxy for z/VM, and RedHat OpenShift Data Foundation (ODF) 4.10 for management of local storage devices. Application-induced outages are not included in the above measurements. Other configurations (hardware or software) may provide different availability characteristics." Could it be that Jon Perryman is actually Bill Johnson in disguise, using ChatGPT to compose his posts? Does he have a Linkedin profile where we can read he's credentials? On 8/26/2023 7:31 PM, David Spiegel wrote: Hi Jon, You said: "...The M in SMP/e stands for Maintenance ..." This statement has NEVER been true. The M is an abbreviation of Modification and it has ALWAYS been this way. Regards, David -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]
> On 26 Aug 2023, at 9:55 am, Jon Perryman wrote: > > I think z/OS uptime is 99.%. I don’t think so. IBM claim 99.999% single server uptime for z and that’s just the hardware. That’s the same as they claim for POWER running either AIX or Linux on RedHat Open Shift and what HP claim for Superdomes running HP-UX. They all claim higher then five-nines running in clusters. What this boils down to is there is redundancy in the hardware for PDUs, Network card, I/O adapters. My bank runs a mainframe and I couldn’t use internet banking when abroad because they were running month-end scheduled maintenance. Many providers claiming five-nines availability will add small print to get around this problem. By excluding scheduled downtime, five-nines becomes a lot easier. > You get what you pay for. Unix maint philosophy may be acceptable on $10,000 > computers but highly unacceptable on multi-million $ computers. We don't > tolerate unintentional downtime. That doesn’t stand up to scrutiny! Just ask Air New Zealand in 2009, HSBC in 2011, or the Royal Bank of Scotland in 2013. The fact is that even five-nines availability for an entire computing service is impossible to guarantee. There is too little room for error and Black Swan or unexpected events are impossible to eliminate. If you have access to the IBM support portal go and do a search for z/OS Red Alerts. Software has bugs, applications and subsystems fail. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: I have
On 25/8/2023 2:05 am, Jon Perryman wrote: > On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 10:46:49 AM PDT, Steve Beaver wrote: I'm thinking that a small group of people write a SPC-for linux/unix. I'm guessing that SPC is Systems Programming C. He's referring to SPF/PC, an ISPF clone for Windows that is no longer supported. Unix currently doesn't need SPC because it doesn't have built-in robust features like z/OS. What? Linux doesn't need Systems Programming C because you use the same compiler for kernel modules and userspace programs. z/OS is the odd one in that language environment isn't suitable for systems programming. So we need Metal/C which superceeded SPC years ago. When you consider that the internet runs mostly on Linux servers and that Linux is also used as an embedded OS for routers and other devices I would suggest it's reasonably robust. Where I work we tend to have to IPL our z/OS LPARs a lot more often then booting on Linux VMs. For instance, you don't have exit points in the kernel that give you access to the system. Hooking the kernel using ftrace is trivial. There are libraries for it. Only the kernel developers need to know the restrictions. For instance, when a load is not permitted. SPC was developed specifically for z/OS with considerations for restrictions you may encounter. On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 10:46:49 AM PDT, Steve Beaver <050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: I have had a happy because of the discussion if VI and emacs. I'm thinking that a small group of people write a SPC-for linux/unix. Now I will be the first to say I don't know C, C++, C .net or any of those languages But I sure can test the product as it begins ALPHA testing Steve -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: JAVA IDE
> On 24 Aug 2023, at 5:16 am, Rahim Azizarab > <03f036d88eeb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Eclipse is free. So is IntelliJ. You pay for the enterprise features. > > > regards; > > Rahim > > > > > > > >On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:07:57 AM CDT, Steve Beaver > <050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > I can believe that I'm asking this question. > > > > > > What is the best/most friendly JAVA IDE? > > > > > > Steve > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone)
> On 24 Aug 2023, at 5:04 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > It's not relevant where vi is running; what's relevant is what's on the other > end of the pipe. If it's a 3270, real or simulated, then it's block mode, > with all of its pluses and minuses. If it's, e.g., Telnet with a VT100 > profile, then vi can respond to keystrokes in (almost) real time. I already made the point that Vim is running over SSH so take 3270 and Telnet out of the discussion. 3270 was designed for networks in the dark ages. ISPF is still a brilliant platform but it’s no match for ncurses applications that can now leverage cool unicode fonts and other stuff. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 4:17 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone) > > On 24/8/2023 3:51 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> Sure, but where are the data coming from? If it's a block-mode terminal on >> one end of the SSH session, then you have the same issue. If it's a PC on >> one end of the signal then it can send individual characters. The Devil is >> in the details. >> > It's running in a Docker container on a headless server. The only > involvement of the PC is the terminal emulator which is not doing > anything special other then rendering. Vim works just as well running on > z/OS. > > >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> >> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of >> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 3:35 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone) >> >>> On 23 Aug 2023, at 10:45 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>> >>>> Still finding this hard to recreate using ISPF with edit macros >>> On a PC it's easy to examine every keystroke as it comes in >> PC? That’s running in a Linux shell over SSH. Vim doesn’t need to run on a >> PC for full duplex. It’s a nurses application. >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone)
> On 23 Aug 2023, at 10:45 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > It's a start, but I would love the opportunity to fork out $ for a full > clone. Not that I have any objections to using free software when it suits my > needs, but I won't ignore a useful program just because it's not open source. > Take Tritus SPF (TSPF), but not while I'm still breathing; it was money well > spent. I find this interesting as one of my ex-colleagues was the same. He used SPF/PC and the Tachyon assembler. When SPF/PC became obsolete he tried to move to Slickedit which has an ISPF emulation mode. It was painful watching him code as line commands are really inefficient but his muscle memory was such that he just couldn’t change. Flip side of the coin is that one of my esteemed colleagues switched from ISPF to Slickedit and it was a success. He just bit the bullet and learned a new editor. I’ve done this several times to great effect. He even presented the experience to our team. Another example is the architect of the product I’m working on. Long term mainframe guy, ex-IBM DE and general great guy who never wants to stop learning. He taught himself how to use VS Code, markdown and Git so he could contribute to our open source documentation [1]. You are never too old to learn new things. And you should, because they are generally much better. [1] https://z-open-data.github.io/instana-topics/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone)
On 24/8/2023 3:51 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: Sure, but where are the data coming from? If it's a block-mode terminal on one end of the SSH session, then you have the same issue. If it's a PC on one end of the signal then it can send individual characters. The Devil is in the details. It's running in a Docker container on a headless server. The only involvement of the PC is the terminal emulator which is not doing anything special other then rendering. Vim works just as well running on z/OS. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 3:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone) On 23 Aug 2023, at 10:45 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: Still finding this hard to recreate using ISPF with edit macros On a PC it's easy to examine every keystroke as it comes in PC? That’s running in a Linux shell over SSH. Vim doesn’t need to run on a PC for full duplex. It’s a nurses application. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone)
> On 23 Aug 2023, at 10:45 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: > >> Still finding this hard to recreate using ISPF with edit macros > > On a PC it's easy to examine every keystroke as it comes in PC? That’s running in a Linux shell over SSH. Vim doesn’t need to run on a PC for full duplex. It’s a nurses application. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: JAVA IDE
100% agree with Kirk. IntelliJ IDEA is head and shoulders the best Java IDE. I’ve mostly been coding in Java for the last few years and use the Ultimate edition which is quite expensive but worth every penny. We also use the Jetbrains CLion IDE for C/C++ and Python. I’ve recently been playing with VS Code for doing some Python presentations and it’s an excellent editor. > On 24 Aug 2023, at 1:11 am, Kirk Wolf wrote: > > BTW: ibm-main is probably the worst place to ask :-) > > Kirk Wolf > Dovetailed Technologies > > To answer you question, for a real Java IDE, Java programmers generally > believe that IntelliJ is the best and that's hard to argue with.I've used > Eclipse for a really long time. If you are doing z/OS Java development, > it's generally best to develop on your workstation and just deploy compiled > jars to z/OS. We use some enhanced Ant SSH/SFTP tasks that we developed to > target z/OS from the IDE (for C/C++, assembler, and Java). > https://coztoolkit.com/community/antssh.html > > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2023, at 11:35 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> The question "What is the best foo?" is guarantied to start a religious war, >> whether foo be an editor, an IDE, a language, an OS or a shell. Try a few >> and see what you like. >> >> >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> >> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of >> Steve Beaver [050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 11:07 AM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: JAVA IDE >> >> I can believe that I'm asking this question. >> >> >> >> >> >> What is the best/most friendly JAVA IDE? >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
COBOL copilot
IBM have announced a new AI assistant to help migrating COBOL code to Java https://newsroom.ibm.com/2023-08-22-IBM-Unveils-watsonx-Generative-AI-Capabilities-to-Accelerate-Mainframe-Application-Modernization -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone)
Whoops! Forgot the link https://github.com/emacs-lsp/lsp-mode > On 23 Aug 2023, at 12:19 pm, David Crayford wrote: > > I noticed that there is LSP support for Emacs. That's super important in the > modern world of language servers. > > On 23/8/2023 9:32 am, Tomasz Rola wrote: >> On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 08:44:30AM +0100, Rupert Reynolds wrote: >>> I remember using ed. Via a 2400bps modem :-) >> Aha. Ed and vi are still being praised by various people for their >> ability to use such a narrow bandwith. >> >>> I'm told the thing with emacs is that, if you like it, it can end up being >>> almost your whole development environment, so you feel lost without it. >> Sure, I agree. But this same thing can be told about any kind of tool >> which does its jobs so well that one does not want to search for >> anything better. Not perfect, just good enough. Part of this is >> avoiding "avalanche" type of changes to the way a tool works. Changes >> are introduced, allright, but usually they are acceptable to me. In >> some cases, I had to include an ELisp snippet into my dot-emacs. >> >> I suspect that I would be able to transplant old version of some code >> I rely upon into newer emacs, but this might prove to be troublesome. >> >> BTW, emacs is not very good with big files. I have now one such ~30 >> megabyte text file, with Unicode and some stuff describing a structure >> of it - it contains my notes, calendar things, but in essence it is >> just a magnafied bookmarks file. It loads quite fast, but not >> blazingly fast - about five seconds. >> >> Emacs has a hex viewer too. I use it rarely, because I prefer >> "hexdump -C > >> BTW2, emacs is the only editor I know about that has built in >> psychiatric help. And no, this is not one of those Lady Gaga >> jokes. Try "M-x doctor". >> >>> I ended up writing my own editor twice (once for TSO and 3278, again for >>> Windoze). Both can run without line numbers and use F-keys to get things >>> done, mostly matching the keys I used with the ISPF editor to insert, >>> delete, split and join lines etc. >> U-hum. I never felt such inclination (except once when I was very very >> young). Learning the tool and using it well enough, seems like >> attanaible goal for me :-). >> -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone)
I noticed that there is LSP support for Emacs. That's super important in the modern world of language servers. On 23/8/2023 9:32 am, Tomasz Rola wrote: On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 08:44:30AM +0100, Rupert Reynolds wrote: I remember using ed. Via a 2400bps modem :-) Aha. Ed and vi are still being praised by various people for their ability to use such a narrow bandwith. I'm told the thing with emacs is that, if you like it, it can end up being almost your whole development environment, so you feel lost without it. Sure, I agree. But this same thing can be told about any kind of tool which does its jobs so well that one does not want to search for anything better. Not perfect, just good enough. Part of this is avoiding "avalanche" type of changes to the way a tool works. Changes are introduced, allright, but usually they are acceptable to me. In some cases, I had to include an ELisp snippet into my dot-emacs. I suspect that I would be able to transplant old version of some code I rely upon into newer emacs, but this might prove to be troublesome. BTW, emacs is not very good with big files. I have now one such ~30 megabyte text file, with Unicode and some stuff describing a structure of it - it contains my notes, calendar things, but in essence it is just a magnafied bookmarks file. It loads quite fast, but not blazingly fast - about five seconds. Emacs has a hex viewer too. I use it rarely, because I prefer "hexdump -C I ended up writing my own editor twice (once for TSO and 3278, again for Windoze). Both can run without line numbers and use F-keys to get things done, mostly matching the keys I used with the ISPF editor to insert, delete, split and join lines etc. U-hum. I never felt such inclination (except once when I was very very young). Learning the tool and using it well enough, seems like attanaible goal for me :-). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: emacs (was: Re: Has anyone)
On 23/8/2023 10:29 am, Steve Beaver wrote: I have tried VI and I find it to slow. I would use eMacs. Prefer to ispf ported to Linux/Unix. https://github.com/daniel64/lspf I have used ISPF for ever and i can out do and any using VI 10 to ispf written for Linux/Unix hahaha! Still finding this hard to recreate using ISPF with edit macros https://github.com/ycm-core/YouCompleteMe. Talking of macros, if you need to write a lot of them it's usually a good indicator that your editor lacks features. Sent from my iPhone No one said I could type with one thumb On Aug 22, 2023, at 20:32, Tomasz Rola wrote: On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 08:44:30AM +0100, Rupert Reynolds wrote: I remember using ed. Via a 2400bps modem :-) Aha. Ed and vi are still being praised by various people for their ability to use such a narrow bandwith. I'm told the thing with emacs is that, if you like it, it can end up being almost your whole development environment, so you feel lost without it. Sure, I agree. But this same thing can be told about any kind of tool which does its jobs so well that one does not want to search for anything better. Not perfect, just good enough. Part of this is avoiding "avalanche" type of changes to the way a tool works. Changes are introduced, allright, but usually they are acceptable to me. In some cases, I had to include an ELisp snippet into my dot-emacs. I suspect that I would be able to transplant old version of some code I rely upon into newer emacs, but this might prove to be troublesome. BTW, emacs is not very good with big files. I have now one such ~30 megabyte text file, with Unicode and some stuff describing a structure of it - it contains my notes, calendar things, but in essence it is just a magnafied bookmarks file. It loads quite fast, but not blazingly fast - about five seconds. Emacs has a hex viewer too. I use it rarely, because I prefer "hexdump -C I ended up writing my own editor twice (once for TSO and 3278, again for Windoze). Both can run without line numbers and use F-keys to get things done, mostly matching the keys I used with the ISPF editor to insert, delete, split and join lines etc. U-hum. I never felt such inclination (except once when I was very very young). Learning the tool and using it well enough, seems like attanaible goal for me :-). -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
> On 22 Aug 2023, at 10:10 pm, Gord Tomlin > wrote: > > On 2023-08-22 07:17 AM, David Crayford wrote: >> https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/ > > That looks like a gem! Oh yeah! It’s next level and it's an incremental parser. > > -- > > Regards, Gord Tomlin > Action Software International > (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) > Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 > Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
On 22/8/2023 4:12 am, Leonard D Woren wrote: Bob Bridges wrote on 8/16/2023 8:23 AM: Too many years ago; I don't remember. And it isn't as if "unintuitive" is a fatal error in editors or any other application; TECO (anyone ever use that?) is a powerful editor - it was on the PDP platform as I recall - with early automation features that I used extensively, and it was full of odd uses for and '$' and some other characters, but it did a good job - once I was used to it. But whatever this Unix editor was, a half hour wasn't enough for me to learn much about it or get used to anything. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* People who can't distinguish between "etymology" and "entomology" bug me in ways I cannot put into words. -Tal Waterhouse */ IBM-MAIN relevancy: ISPF EDIT still rules! If the only tool you know is a hammer? (But now I should learn regexps.) I noticed that z/OS 3.1 has some ISPF enhancements for syntax highlighting. What would it take to write a tree-sitter edit macro for ISPF edit? ;- It shouldn't be too difficult to write grammars for mainframe languages https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/ I never tried TECO, after reading "Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL" 40 years ago. Extract: Some of the concepts in these Xerox editors have been incorporated into editors running on more reasonably named operating systems -- EMACS and VI being two. The problem with these editors is that Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. TECO, to be precise. It has been observed that a TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text [4]. One of the more entertaining games to play with TECO is to type your name in as a command line and try to guess what it does. Just about any possible typing error while talking with TECO will probably destroy your program, or even worse -- introduce subtle and mysterious bugs in a once working subroutine. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix
> On 21 Aug 2023, at 1:35 pm, kekronbekron > <02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> I intend to leverage the z/OS Open Tools ports as they spare me the effort >> of continuous maintenance. > > That sounds like it's going to lead to RS offering supported option of stuff, > relying on other people's open sourced work... with what amount of giving > back involved? There is zero chance of RS offering commercial support for code ported by the z/OS Open Tools community. They don’t need to. If they thought there was a market for a tool that they would just provide their own port. I’m not quite sure what you mean by “giving back”? If you’re talking about upstreaming changes then we’ve had this conversation before many times. The maintainers of open source projects, such as Python, want nothing to do with z/OS patches in their mainline code. That’s why IBM and Rocket keep their own patch files. > In other words, what's the value add apart from the comfort of support, and > the SMP/E install option? > Comfort? That's hardly the case. Deploying anything into production without proper support is unheard of. If you're just a casual enthusiast downloading development tools for personal use, that's one thing. However, when an organization aims to adopt Git for managing critical source code, no responsible IT manager would be at ease without round-the-clock support. This principle applies universally, encompassing mainframes and all systems alike. Support is a must, either directly from the product vendor or through services provided by specialized organizations. As an example, consider enterprise Linux distributions like RHEL, which are predominantly constructed from open source software. RedHat (now IBM) or SUSE stands behind them, delivering essential support. Same for cloud operators. > > - KB > > --- Original Message --- > On Monday, August 21st, 2023 at 10:12, David Crayford > wrote: > > >> On 19/8/2023 6:18 pm, Sebastian Welton wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 19:33:03 +0800, David crayforddcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> I'm feeling a bit puzzled here! Bash doesn't come pre-installed with >>>> z/OS; rather, it's a tool ported by Rocket, so there shouldn't be any >>>> compatibility problems, right? If IBM decides to include zsh, which is >>>> considered superior to bash, this could be a game-changer. >>>> Currently trying this one out >> >> >> If you're using it don't forget to star the repo on Github. That really >> helps the maintainers gauge how many people are using the port. >> >>> not too sure if there is any Rocket influence or not: >> >> >> Not that I know of. The distinction between the z/OS Open Tools >> initiative and Rocket's ported tools lies in Rocket's provision of >> commercial support and SMP/E packaging. Customers tend to approach >> open-source solutions on z/OS cautiously, especially after the >> Shellshock incident with bash. Rocket remains vigilant about addressing >> any new Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVE), promptly releasing >> patches. Bash is a dependecy for Git, which holds significant importance >> as a ported tool. In recent customer presentations, the predominant >> focus has been on modernization, involving Git integration, whether >> directly or through bridging from existing legacy SCM systems. >> >> I extend my appreciation to IBM for their commitment to the z/OS Open >> Tools initiative. The community is commendable, well-guided, and staffed >> with highly skilled engineers. Numerous packages have been ported, some >> of which I have undertaken myself, like CMake. I intend to leverage the >> z/OS Open Tools ports as they spare me the effort of continuous >> maintenance. >> >>> https://github.com/ZOSOpenTools/bashport >>> >>> Sebastian. >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix
On 19/8/2023 6:18 pm, Sebastian Welton wrote: On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 19:33:03 +0800, David Crayford wrote: I'm feeling a bit puzzled here! Bash doesn't come pre-installed with z/OS; rather, it's a tool ported by Rocket, so there shouldn't be any compatibility problems, right? If IBM decides to include zsh, which is considered superior to bash, this could be a game-changer. Currently trying this one out If you're using it don't forget to star the repo on Github. That really helps the maintainers gauge how many people are using the port. not too sure if there is any Rocket influence or not: Not that I know of. The distinction between the z/OS Open Tools initiative and Rocket's ported tools lies in Rocket's provision of commercial support and SMP/E packaging. Customers tend to approach open-source solutions on z/OS cautiously, especially after the Shellshock incident with bash. Rocket remains vigilant about addressing any new Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVE), promptly releasing patches. Bash is a dependecy for Git, which holds significant importance as a ported tool. In recent customer presentations, the predominant focus has been on modernization, involving Git integration, whether directly or through bridging from existing legacy SCM systems. I extend my appreciation to IBM for their commitment to the z/OS Open Tools initiative. The community is commendable, well-guided, and staffed with highly skilled engineers. Numerous packages have been ported, some of which I have undertaken myself, like CMake. I intend to leverage the z/OS Open Tools ports as they spare me the effort of continuous maintenance. https://github.com/ZOSOpenTools/bashport Sebastian. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix
While maintaining respect, it can be quite exasperating within a technical forum to come across a "pseudo-expert" or a "know-it-all." It's important to possess a solid grasp of the subject, as otherwise, your contributions might just add to the noise. z/OS UNIX might not be within your realm of expertise. Enough said from me on this subject :) On 18/8/2023 8:31 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: I'm feeling a bit puzzled here! Then ask instead of attributing to me things that I didn't write. Bash doesn't come pre-installed with z/OS; True but irrelevant. Now, were Rocket to stop supporting it, *that* would be relevant. so there shouldn't be any compatibility problems, right? WTF? How does the fact that it's 3rd party suddenly make bash and zsh compatible? If IBM decides to include zsh, which is considered superior to bash, this could be a game-changer. Only for new scripts. Once IBM introduced their Python SDK for z/OS, Rocket's Python started struggling and eventually became obsolete. True but irrelevant; those were two implementations of the same language, while bash and zsh are different languages. It's perfectly fine to skip commenting on every discussion, It's perfectly fine to comment on what people actually write; it's not so fine to comment on what only exists in your head. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 7:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix On 18/8/2023 7:07 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: While, IMHO, zsh should have been included in MVS/ESA SP V4.3 OpenEdition, I don't see it killing bash, due to compatibility. I'm feeling a bit puzzled here! Bash doesn't come pre-installed with z/OS; rather, it's a tool ported by Rocket, so there shouldn't be any compatibility problems, right? If IBM decides to include zsh, which is considered superior to bash, this could be a game-changer. Once IBM introduced their Python SDK for z/OS, Rocket's Python started struggling and eventually became obsolete. It's perfectly fine to skip commenting on every discussion, especially when it's not within your field of expertise. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 5:38 AM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix What version of bash are you using? Rocket software's port or IBM z/OS Open Tools? Irrespective, bash is an enhanced ASCII application so make sure you have the following environment variables set in your profile login scripts by entering "env | sort" from the shell command line. _BPXK_AUTOCVT=ON _CEE_RUNOPTS=FILETAG(AUTOCVT,AUTOTAG) TERMTHDACT(UADUMP) ABTERMENC(ABEND) _TAG_REDIR_ERR=txt _TAG_REDIR_IN=txt _TAG_REDIR_OUT=txt Incidentally, I noticed that IBM are shipping zsh as part of z/OS 3.1 so bye, bye bash. I've being using zsh for years and it turbo charges the shell. For example, there are open source themes such as oh-my-zsh and powerline10k. The powerline customizes PS1 with fancy glyphs. The current Git branch, commits and other information is shown. It's next level to the dull one your using :). Also, there is zsh-autosuggestions which recalls previous commands for auto completion. oh-my-zsh also provides a plugin for git command completion and other super cool command completions that make using the shell as easy as an IDE. https://github.com/ohmyzsh/ohmyzsh/tree/master https://github.com/romkatv/powerlevel10k https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh-autosuggestions To enable the cool glyphs you will need to install Nerd fonts and configure your terminal emulator. If you're a Windows user and using PuTTY I recommend switching to Windows Terminial (preferably with WSL2) which has tabs, tiled windows and is just miles better. If you're on a Mac like me it's easy to configure Termimal, iTerm2 or whatever emulator you use. Same with Linux desktops. On z/OS "export TERM=xterm-256color" In the meantime, there is a port of powerline-go as part of the Z/OS Open Tools project. If you have downloaded the installer you can install it simply by running "zopen install powerlinegoport". https://github.com/justjanne/powerline-go# instructions how to configure it with bash *Z Shell (Zsh) on z/OS* The Z Shell (Zsh), specifically Zsh 5.8.1, has been ported and made available on z/OS 3.1. Zsh is a UNIX command interpreter that is used as an interactive login shell and as a shell script command processor. It has command-line editing, built-in spelling correction, programmable command completion, shell functions (with auto
Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix
On 18/8/2023 8:01 pm, kekronbekron wrote: Does it say in any 3.1 note that zsh is going to be included? zsh port doesn't (publicly) exist yet. It's in the z/OS 3.1 announcement letter that was posted here last week Might want to check the zopen install command for powerline. I recommend installing the entire suite --- Original Message --- On Friday, August 18th, 2023 at 17:03, David Crayford wrote: On 18/8/2023 7:07 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: While, IMHO, zsh should have been included in MVS/ESA SP V4.3 OpenEdition, I don't see it killing bash, due to compatibility. I'm feeling a bit puzzled here! Bash doesn't come pre-installed with z/OS; rather, it's a tool ported by Rocket, so there shouldn't be any compatibility problems, right? If IBM decides to include zsh, which is considered superior to bash, this could be a game-changer. Once IBM introduced their Python SDK for z/OS, Rocket's Python started struggling and eventually became obsolete. It's perfectly fine to skip commenting on every discussion, especially when it's not within your field of expertise. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 5:38 AM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix What version of bash are you using? Rocket software's port or IBM z/OS Open Tools? Irrespective, bash is an enhanced ASCII application so make sure you have the following environment variables set in your profile login scripts by entering "env | sort" from the shell command line. _BPXK_AUTOCVT=ON _CEE_RUNOPTS=FILETAG(AUTOCVT,AUTOTAG) TERMTHDACT(UADUMP) ABTERMENC(ABEND) _TAG_REDIR_ERR=txt _TAG_REDIR_IN=txt _TAG_REDIR_OUT=txt Incidentally, I noticed that IBM are shipping zsh as part of z/OS 3.1 so bye, bye bash. I've being using zsh for years and it turbo charges the shell. For example, there are open source themes such as oh-my-zsh and powerline10k. The powerline customizes PS1 with fancy glyphs. The current Git branch, commits and other information is shown. It's next level to the dull one your using :). Also, there is zsh-autosuggestions which recalls previous commands for auto completion. oh-my-zsh also provides a plugin for git command completion and other super cool command completions that make using the shell as easy as an IDE. https://github.com/ohmyzsh/ohmyzsh/tree/master https://github.com/romkatv/powerlevel10k https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh-autosuggestions To enable the cool glyphs you will need to install Nerd fonts and configure your terminal emulator. If you're a Windows user and using PuTTY I recommend switching to Windows Terminial (preferably with WSL2) which has tabs, tiled windows and is just miles better. If you're on a Mac like me it's easy to configure Termimal, iTerm2 or whatever emulator you use. Same with Linux desktops. On z/OS "export TERM=xterm-256color" In the meantime, there is a port of powerline-go as part of the Z/OS Open Tools project. If you have downloaded the installer you can install it simply by running "zopen install powerlinegoport". https://github.com/justjanne/powerline-go # instructions how to configure it with bash Z Shell (Zsh) on z/OS The Z Shell (Zsh), specifically Zsh 5.8.1, has been ported and made available on z/OS 3.1. Zsh is a UNIX command interpreter that is used as an interactive login shell and as a shell script command processor. It has command-line editing, built-in spelling correction, programmable command completion, shell functions (with autoloading), a history mechanism, and a host of other features. With the extensibility, rich customization, and advanced features, Zsh provides a modern and powerful shell on z/OS. It is designed to accelerate users' daily work and have consistent behavior with other open platforms. On 17/8/2023 11:31 pm, Tom Longfellow wrote: I am confused and am throwing out a Hail Mary for help. Here is the situation. Two cloned LPARs. (same sysres and unix root file systems) On system 1 - the /etc/profile has a PS1 of export PS1="[\\u@\\H \\W \\@]\\$ " On system 2 - the /etc/profile has a PS1 of export PS1="[\\u@\\H \\W \\@]\\$ " Why YES they do look the same... at least they do to me. -=-=-= The results however are very different. On system one the displayed PS1 is [TECH905@jismvs_test ~ 11:26 AM]$ On system two the displayed PS1 is [\u@\H \W \@]$ -=-=-=-= I am using the same SHELL program in my environment. (/usr/bin/bash) Anybody have any ideas why the two different LPARs are reading the same string but interpreting it in two different ways? My suspect is some dark secret settings in the Unix file system. Total Guess -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signof
Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix
On 18/8/2023 7:07 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: While, IMHO, zsh should have been included in MVS/ESA SP V4.3 OpenEdition, I don't see it killing bash, due to compatibility. I'm feeling a bit puzzled here! Bash doesn't come pre-installed with z/OS; rather, it's a tool ported by Rocket, so there shouldn't be any compatibility problems, right? If IBM decides to include zsh, which is considered superior to bash, this could be a game-changer. Once IBM introduced their Python SDK for z/OS, Rocket's Python started struggling and eventually became obsolete. It's perfectly fine to skip commenting on every discussion, especially when it's not within your field of expertise. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 5:38 AM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix What version of bash are you using? Rocket software's port or IBM z/OS Open Tools? Irrespective, bash is an enhanced ASCII application so make sure you have the following environment variables set in your profile login scripts by entering "env | sort" from the shell command line. _BPXK_AUTOCVT=ON _CEE_RUNOPTS=FILETAG(AUTOCVT,AUTOTAG) TERMTHDACT(UADUMP) ABTERMENC(ABEND) _TAG_REDIR_ERR=txt _TAG_REDIR_IN=txt _TAG_REDIR_OUT=txt Incidentally, I noticed that IBM are shipping zsh as part of z/OS 3.1 so bye, bye bash. I've being using zsh for years and it turbo charges the shell. For example, there are open source themes such as oh-my-zsh and powerline10k. The powerline customizes PS1 with fancy glyphs. The current Git branch, commits and other information is shown. It's next level to the dull one your using :). Also, there is zsh-autosuggestions which recalls previous commands for auto completion. oh-my-zsh also provides a plugin for git command completion and other super cool command completions that make using the shell as easy as an IDE. https://github.com/ohmyzsh/ohmyzsh/tree/master https://github.com/romkatv/powerlevel10k https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh-autosuggestions To enable the cool glyphs you will need to install Nerd fonts and configure your terminal emulator. If you're a Windows user and using PuTTY I recommend switching to Windows Terminial (preferably with WSL2) which has tabs, tiled windows and is just miles better. If you're on a Mac like me it's easy to configure Termimal, iTerm2 or whatever emulator you use. Same with Linux desktops. On z/OS "export TERM=xterm-256color" In the meantime, there is a port of powerline-go as part of the Z/OS Open Tools project. If you have downloaded the installer you can install it simply by running "zopen install powerlinegoport". https://github.com/justjanne/powerline-go# instructions how to configure it with bash *Z Shell (Zsh) on z/OS* The Z Shell (Zsh), specifically Zsh 5.8.1, has been ported and made available on z/OS 3.1. Zsh is a UNIX command interpreter that is used as an interactive login shell and as a shell script command processor. It has command-line editing, built-in spelling correction, programmable command completion, shell functions (with autoloading), a history mechanism, and a host of other features. With the extensibility, rich customization, and advanced features, Zsh provides a modern and powerful shell on z/OS. It is designed to accelerate users' daily work and have consistent behavior with other open platforms. On 17/8/2023 11:31 pm, Tom Longfellow wrote: I am confused and am throwing out a Hail Mary for help. Here is the situation. Two cloned LPARs. (same sysres and unix root file systems) On system 1 - the /etc/profile has a PS1 of export PS1="[\\u@\\H \\W \\@]\\$ " On system 2 - the /etc/profile has a PS1 of export PS1="[\\u@\\H \\W \\@]\\$ " Why YES they do look the same... at least they do to me. -=-=-= The results however are very different. On system one the displayed PS1 is [TECH905@jismvs_test ~ 11:26 AM]$ On system two the displayed PS1 is [\u@\H \W \@]$ -=-=-=-= I am using the same SHELL program in my environment. (/usr/bin/bash) Anybody have any ideas why the two different LPARs are reading the same string but interpreting it in two different ways? My suspect is some dark secret settings in the Unix file system. Total Guess -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN
Re: Strange results for the PS1 prompt with z/OS Unix
What version of bash are you using? Rocket software's port or IBM z/OS Open Tools? Irrespective, bash is an enhanced ASCII application so make sure you have the following environment variables set in your profile login scripts by entering "env | sort" from the shell command line. _BPXK_AUTOCVT=ON _CEE_RUNOPTS=FILETAG(AUTOCVT,AUTOTAG) TERMTHDACT(UADUMP) ABTERMENC(ABEND) _TAG_REDIR_ERR=txt _TAG_REDIR_IN=txt _TAG_REDIR_OUT=txt Incidentally, I noticed that IBM are shipping zsh as part of z/OS 3.1 so bye, bye bash. I've being using zsh for years and it turbo charges the shell. For example, there are open source themes such as oh-my-zsh and powerline10k. The powerline customizes PS1 with fancy glyphs. The current Git branch, commits and other information is shown. It's next level to the dull one your using :). Also, there is zsh-autosuggestions which recalls previous commands for auto completion. oh-my-zsh also provides a plugin for git command completion and other super cool command completions that make using the shell as easy as an IDE. https://github.com/ohmyzsh/ohmyzsh/tree/master https://github.com/romkatv/powerlevel10k https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh-autosuggestions To enable the cool glyphs you will need to install Nerd fonts and configure your terminal emulator. If you're a Windows user and using PuTTY I recommend switching to Windows Terminial (preferably with WSL2) which has tabs, tiled windows and is just miles better. If you're on a Mac like me it's easy to configure Termimal, iTerm2 or whatever emulator you use. Same with Linux desktops. On z/OS "export TERM=xterm-256color" In the meantime, there is a port of powerline-go as part of the Z/OS Open Tools project. If you have downloaded the installer you can install it simply by running "zopen install powerlinegoport". https://github.com/justjanne/powerline-go # instructions how to configure it with bash *Z Shell (Zsh) on z/OS* The Z Shell (Zsh), specifically Zsh 5.8.1, has been ported and made available on z/OS 3.1. Zsh is a UNIX command interpreter that is used as an interactive login shell and as a shell script command processor. It has command-line editing, built-in spelling correction, programmable command completion, shell functions (with autoloading), a history mechanism, and a host of other features. With the extensibility, rich customization, and advanced features, Zsh provides a modern and powerful shell on z/OS. It is designed to accelerate users' daily work and have consistent behavior with other open platforms. On 17/8/2023 11:31 pm, Tom Longfellow wrote: I am confused and am throwing out a Hail Mary for help. Here is the situation. Two cloned LPARs. (same sysres and unix root file systems) On system 1 - the /etc/profile has a PS1 of export PS1="[\\u@\\H \\W \\@]\\$ " On system 2 - the /etc/profile has a PS1 of export PS1="[\\u@\\H \\W \\@]\\$ " Why YES they do look the same... at least they do to me. -=-=-= The results however are very different. On system one the displayed PS1 is [TECH905@jismvs_test ~ 11:26 AM]$ On system two the displayed PS1 is [\u@\H \W \@]$ -=-=-=-= I am using the same SHELL program in my environment. (/usr/bin/bash) Anybody have any ideas why the two different LPARs are reading the same string but interpreting it in two different ways? My suspect is some dark secret settings in the Unix file system. Total Guess -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Has anyone
> On 17 Aug 2023, at 9:27 pm, David Spiegel > <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Hi David, > I learned VIM because my job was expanded to add responsibility for Linux and > AIX software installation and maintenance. > (I am no expert, but), ISPF Edit has the ability to do an an intelligent > change where changing A to AB (or vice versa) it tries to keep the rest of > the line the way it was. > I have not seen this ability in another editor. You will have to supply more context because I haven’t used ISPF as my primary editor for 20 years and I haven’t experienced that problem with Slickedit, IntelliJ, Vim etc. > As well, no other editor can limit the search by columns in the change > command. (I know that XEDIT can do it by issuing a command to do this before > issuing the change command.) That’s simple using a regular expression > > Regards, > David > > On 2023-08-17 07:28, David Crayford wrote: >> On 17/8/2023 5:41 am, Phil Smith III wrote: >>> Bob Bridges wrote, in part: >>>> I once spent an agonizing half-hour trying to help a Unix programmer >>>> code a program in a language I know using some kind of Unix editor >>>> that was so unintuitive I could hardly accomplish anything. >>> As Shmuel suggests, that sounds like vi or one of its relatives. The best >>> description of vi I've ever heard is: >>> "vi has two modes: one where it corrupts your data, and one where it beeps >>> at you." >> This joke never fails to amuse me: >> https://jokejet.com/lady-gaga-tries-to-exit-vim/. >> >> Is there anyone left who still uses vi? Vim has practically become the >> standard on most systems, and NeoVim is following suit with Vim. When I hear >> someone griping about Vim's lack of intuitiveness or labeling it the "editor >> from hell," I quickly realize that they probably haven't put in the effort >> to truly learn how to harness Vim's capabilities. It's likely that they gave >> it a shot, grappled with its unique modes, may have even struggled to exit >> the application, and as a result, developed a negative impression that has >> persisted since that initial unpleasing encounter. Vim's learning curve is >> steep, but the benefits are significant for those in search of a lightweight >> editor that's arguably more powerful than even the most intricate GUI >> applications. Moreover, it performs efficiently even on resource-constrained >> setups. >> >> Occasionally, I still turn to ISPF for editing JCL or REXX programs that >> reside in PDS datasets. In a recent WebEx session with my millennial >> teammates, I was demonstrating some new JCL. While performing a multi-line >> edit involving COPY/OVERLAY after column adjustments, they playfully laughed >> and teased me. Phrases like "Is ISPF your IDE?", "Does ISPF support multiple >> cursors?" and "Why not use Vim?" were thrown my way. I clarified that Vim >> can't manage MVS datasets, although the DSFS might eventually address that >> limitation. I then proceeded to showcase the usage of SRCHFOR from a member >> list. However, their response wasn't as impressed as it was with vimgrep, >> NerdTree, Telescope and the numerous plugins that operate seamlessly on z/OS >> ports of Vim. >> >> It's worth mentioning that young developers are actively embracing Vim, not >> just the seasoned Unix programmers. It has emerged as one of the preferred >> editors for full stack web development. Take a look at the videos and commit >> history for NeoVim, and you'll be amazed by the dominance of a TUI (Text >> User Interface) editor in a rapidly evolving tech landscape. >> >> Now, let's delve into Git integration. We're all on the Git bandwagon, >> right? There are plugins available that empower me to delve into the Git >> history of files, providing inline annotations to pinpoint which developer >> modified a specific line of code in which commit and when! >> >> https://github.com/lewis6991/gitsigns.nvim. >> >> Of course, it's all a matter of perspective, and to a young individual >> entering the realm of z/OS, ISPF might very well seem like the "editor from >> hell." >> >> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> -
Re: Has anyone
On 17/8/2023 8:26 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: What is the usage of gvim, and is there a z/OS port? Gvim, being a GUI, offers menus and the ability to share the clipboard with the OS. However, it seems that most users are drawn to the terminal environment, which might be why Gvim's popularity is diminishing. Also, clipboard integration has been implemented in plugins for the last decade. As for a z/OS port, that would necessitate x11, which isn't exactly tailored to the purpose. Interestingly, the Stack Overflow IDE 2023 survey highlights a distinction between Vim and Neovim as separate editors, despite Neovim being a fork of Vim. When you combine the percentages of both, it becomes apparent just how popular Vim remains. [1] Link: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-most-popular-technologies-integrated-development-environment In Vim, macros are implemented as a recording and playback feature. You have the ability to write Vimscript to customize the editor's behavior. In contrast, NeoVim leverages Lua scripting for both configuration and scripting purposes, even employing a vimscript to Lua transpiler for optimization. The NeoVim community is comprised of a group of exceptionally skilled and innovative young hackers. They have taken the foundation of Vim, forked it, and transformed it into a fully-fledged integrated development environment (IDE) equipped with an array of features including language servers, an asynchronous event loop, and the powerful scripting capabilities of Lua. This evolution is in line with the changing landscape of development environments, which now often involve containerized images. The versatility of NeoVim allows for convenient home directory network mounts that facilitate the sharing of NeoVim configurations within Linux containers. This ease of integration contrasts with the challenges presented by running resource-intensive GUIs like Visual Studio Code or IntelliJ backends within those same containers. [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stqUbv-5u2s As for git, I'm still getting my toes wet, but it's an obvious tool to look at. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 7:28 AM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Has anyone On 17/8/2023 5:41 am, Phil Smith III wrote: Bob Bridges wrote, in part: I once spent an agonizing half-hour trying to help a Unix programmer code a program in a language I know using some kind of Unix editor that was so unintuitive I could hardly accomplish anything. As Shmuel suggests, that sounds like vi or one of its relatives. The best description of vi I've ever heard is: "vi has two modes: one where it corrupts your data, and one where it beeps at you." This joke never fails to amuse me: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1aZPo01EgQ3QxNnPL6W90Hfy-95T5h8aBn8af37iNbonpe5eONqX1rzUM1dsyG2JjYhgGJUdcu2dTRnJ1yhCN76rB9b1hzvE-WX2XbWVGiznJ0TGg-lKH0IoxoebVxJ6eq8zEd179CBZl418aJGejNgxeVwFjdxvb0QpWFl9LHt6FTPxkQ3cBm10CuyQm98j2LteyMseral78RWJMBLHIpst7yl2qUZAVpoyN7_T5TtG7mm-1pEVSGiHOlbkXzSzTpZh7itIoxNXsRJ4kvjeyxGzvagG5NR7s8lSe4-oSBIknJHKO6zHHc3vS2OaK5mXj-_x4GqOYfeN86oLwMhGsMR03bCi-MuSUXiXLg9iJRocfMSIjA6PRe3dYR8d8nzKn0o8E46RKnjXlBaOXjNZ0ngT4TZjyXmj-XthbA-xsSoYRoHxq0_WCYE7eCRY_fdvF/https%3A%2F%2Fjokejet.com%2Flady-gaga-tries-to-exit-vim%2F Is there anyone left who still uses vi? Vim has practically become the standard on most systems, and NeoVim is following suit with Vim. When I hear someone griping about Vim's lack of intuitiveness or labeling it the "editor from hell," I quickly realize that they probably haven't put in the effort to truly learn how to harness Vim's capabilities. It's likely that they gave it a shot, grappled with its unique modes, may have even struggled to exit the application, and as a result, developed a negative impression that has persisted since that initial unpleasing encounter. Vim's learning curve is steep, but the benefits are significant for those in search of a lightweight editor that's arguably more powerful than even the most intricate GUI applications. Moreover, it performs efficiently even on resource-constrained setups. Occasionally, I still turn to ISPF for editing JCL or REXX programs that reside in PDS datasets. In a recent WebEx session with my millennial teammates, I was demonstrating some new JCL. While performing a multi-line edit involving COPY/OVERLAY after column adjustments, they playfully laughed and teased me. Phrases like "Is ISPF your IDE?", "Does ISPF support multiple cursors?" and "Why not use Vim?" were thrown my way. I clarified that Vim can't manage MVS datasets, although the DSFS might eventually address that limitation. I then proceeded to showcase the usage of SRCHFOR from a member
Re: Has anyone
On 17/8/2023 5:41 am, Phil Smith III wrote: Bob Bridges wrote, in part: I once spent an agonizing half-hour trying to help a Unix programmer code a program in a language I know using some kind of Unix editor that was so unintuitive I could hardly accomplish anything. As Shmuel suggests, that sounds like vi or one of its relatives. The best description of vi I've ever heard is: "vi has two modes: one where it corrupts your data, and one where it beeps at you." This joke never fails to amuse me: https://jokejet.com/lady-gaga-tries-to-exit-vim/. Is there anyone left who still uses vi? Vim has practically become the standard on most systems, and NeoVim is following suit with Vim. When I hear someone griping about Vim's lack of intuitiveness or labeling it the "editor from hell," I quickly realize that they probably haven't put in the effort to truly learn how to harness Vim's capabilities. It's likely that they gave it a shot, grappled with its unique modes, may have even struggled to exit the application, and as a result, developed a negative impression that has persisted since that initial unpleasing encounter. Vim's learning curve is steep, but the benefits are significant for those in search of a lightweight editor that's arguably more powerful than even the most intricate GUI applications. Moreover, it performs efficiently even on resource-constrained setups. Occasionally, I still turn to ISPF for editing JCL or REXX programs that reside in PDS datasets. In a recent WebEx session with my millennial teammates, I was demonstrating some new JCL. While performing a multi-line edit involving COPY/OVERLAY after column adjustments, they playfully laughed and teased me. Phrases like "Is ISPF your IDE?", "Does ISPF support multiple cursors?" and "Why not use Vim?" were thrown my way. I clarified that Vim can't manage MVS datasets, although the DSFS might eventually address that limitation. I then proceeded to showcase the usage of SRCHFOR from a member list. However, their response wasn't as impressed as it was with vimgrep, NerdTree, Telescope and the numerous plugins that operate seamlessly on z/OS ports of Vim. It's worth mentioning that young developers are actively embracing Vim, not just the seasoned Unix programmers. It has emerged as one of the preferred editors for full stack web development. Take a look at the videos and commit history for NeoVim, and you'll be amazed by the dominance of a TUI (Text User Interface) editor in a rapidly evolving tech landscape. Now, let's delve into Git integration. We're all on the Git bandwagon, right? There are plugins available that empower me to delve into the Git history of files, providing inline annotations to pinpoint which developer modified a specific line of code in which commit and when! https://github.com/lewis6991/gitsigns.nvim. Of course, it's all a matter of perspective, and to a young individual entering the realm of z/OS, ISPF might very well seem like the "editor from hell." -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IBM C/C++ for Open Enterprise Languages
> On 10 Aug 2023, at 9:24 pm, Rick Troth wrote:
>
> > ... the IBM Open XL C/C++ compiler is not compatible with XL C/C++
> > or xlclang compilers. This incompatibility may pose challenges.
> > Python 3.11 is developed using IBM Open XL C/C++, while Python
> > 3.10 uses xlclang. As a result, binary packages created for
> > Python 3.10 won't work with the IBM Open XL C/C++ compiler.
>
> Come again?
> Are you saying that object code for this platform produced by one compiler
> is incompatible with object code for this platform produced by the other
> compiler?
I’m not 100% sure about the ABI but the C++ library is different. It’s a port
of clang which is open source. IBM are committing z/OS LLVM/clang port
upstream.
>
> The broken compiler "can only be used for open source", but open source
> aficionados would surely use the alternative when compiling their wares.
> Free as in speech, not just free as in beer.
IBM don’t really do altruism on z/OS. Although you can download Python (and
Node, golang etc) and use them free of charge. However, if you want to install
a Python library that requires a C/C++ compiler to build extensions and you
don’t have the paid for XL C/C++ product then this compiler will fill the gap.
You can also use it to contribute to open source projects on z/OS but nothing
else. Seems reasonable to me, it’s better than nothing.
>
> Perhaps the broken compiler should come with a surgeon general's warning.
> (A meaningful reference in the US where cigarette packaging has, now for
> decades, been required to state "this product is bad for you".)
>
> We continue further down the rabbit hole of software being used for
> controlling people rather than software being used for controlling machines.
>
> -- R; <><
>
>
> On 8/9/23 02:58, David Crayford wrote:
>> As if we didn’t already have enough z/OS C/C++ compilers :)
>>
>> I've recently been working on Python bindings for z/OS products and wanted
>> to share some useful notes. IBM recently released the IBM C/C++ for Open
>> Enterprise Languages on z/OS compiler [1], a free version of IBM Open XL
>> C/C++, which is a port of LLVM/clang. This compiler can only be used for
>> open source. For example, to build Python, Node, go packages that require a
>> build phase when installed or contributing to z/OS open source projects.
>> It's important to note that the IBM Open XL C/C++ compiler is not compatible
>> with XL C/C++ or xlclang compilers. This incompatibility may pose
>> challenges. Python 3.11 is developed using IBM Open XL C/C++, while Python
>> 3.10 uses xlclang. As a result, binary packages created for Python 3.10
>> won't work with the IBM Open XL C/C++ compiler.
>> To overcome this issue, the recommended solution is to build Python
>> distributions that include the source C/C++ code. During the installation
>> process using pip, this code can be built. There are a few issues with the
>> new compiler. Firstly, there is no support for "OS" linkage, meaning no
>> #pragma linkage(module,OS) or extern 'OS' {}. Custom thunk routines need to
>> be written to address this. Additionally, the compiler supports inline
>> assembly, but the -qasmlib= option is not available, making
>> macros unusable. A workaround I found is to assemble some HLASM code and
>> copy-paste from the listing.
>> Moreover, the runtime library is not entirely compatible with XL C/C++. I
>> discovered that the __amrc structure is missing, which breaks my pzfile
>> package and makes accessing VSAM files nearly impossible. I plan to open a
>> case with IBM to address this issue.
>> Another limitation is that the compiler does not produce source/assembly
>> listings. Furthermore, thread level storage is not supported, which
>> complicates the process of porting certain libraries.
>>
>> On a positive note, IBM has open-sourced their zoslib library [2], which
>> assists in porting applications to z/OS. There is a lot of useful function
>> in this library. It supports dynamically loading and calling modules using
>> thunk routines. Unfortunately, there is a comment in the code which states
>> it only works with xlclang. The library is Apache 2.0 licensed but it has
>> IBM copyright. I'm not a lawyer so I'm unsure of the legalities of using
>> this library for product code.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/cloud-paks/z-modernization-stack/2023.2?topic=languages-cc-open-enterprise-zos
>> [2] https://github.com/ibmruntimes/zoslib
>>
>>
>>
Re: IBM C/C++ for Open Enterprise Languages
> On 9 Aug 2023, at 3:08 pm, kekronbekron
> <02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your notes.
>
> On more compilers - when working through a transition, intermediates are a
> small price to pay.
> In the end xlclang and regular clang (which will have zOS bits upstreamed)
> may be the only two remaining.
>
> zoslib has been available for a few years now..
Have you used it?
> What is a thunk routine?
https://github.com/ibmruntimes/zoslib/blob/cc10b7c1d6211a2c28b10b540bf406c7148fbf4f/src/zos.cc#L1892
> Thread-local-storage must be coming…
It’s my understanding that it requires binder work so I wouldn’t expect it any
time soon.
> as I believe it's available with xlclang.
I would no if it did. We’ve discussed this with the IBM compiler team in ISV
technical disclosure meetings. There are library implementations that use
pthreads.
https://github.com/ibmruntimes/zoslib/blob/main/src/zos-tls.cc
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> On Wednesday, August 9th, 2023 at 12:28 PM, David Crayford
> wrote:
>
>
>> As if we didn’t already have enough z/OS C/C++ compilers :)
>>
>> I've recently been working on Python bindings for z/OS products and wanted
>> to share some useful notes. IBM recently released the IBM C/C++ for Open
>> Enterprise Languages on z/OS compiler [1], a free version of IBM Open XL
>> C/C++, which is a port of LLVM/clang. This compiler can only be used for
>> open source. For example, to build Python, Node, go packages that require a
>> build phase when installed or contributing to z/OS open source projects.
>> It's important to note that the IBM Open XL C/C++ compiler is not compatible
>> with XL C/C++ or xlclang compilers. This incompatibility may pose
>> challenges. Python 3.11 is developed using IBM Open XL C/C++, while Python
>> 3.10 uses xlclang. As a result, binary packages created for Python 3.10
>> won't work with the IBM Open XL C/C++ compiler.
>> To overcome this issue, the recommended solution is to build Python
>> distributions that include the source C/C++ code. During the installation
>> process using pip, this code can be built. There are a few issues with the
>> new compiler. Firstly, there is no support for "OS" linkage, meaning no
>> #pragma linkage(module,OS) or extern 'OS' {}. Custom thunk routines need to
>> be written to address this. Additionally, the compiler supports inline
>> assembly, but the -qasmlib= option is not available, making
>> macros unusable. A workaround I found is to assemble some HLASM code and
>> copy-paste from the listing.
>>
>> Moreover, the runtime library is not entirely compatible with XL C/C++. I
>> discovered that the __amrc structure is missing, which breaks my pzfile
>> package and makes accessing VSAM files nearly impossible. I plan to open a
>> case with IBM to address this issue.
>> Another limitation is that the compiler does not produce source/assembly
>> listings. Furthermore, thread level storage is not supported, which
>> complicates the process of porting certain libraries.
>>
>> On a positive note, IBM has open-sourced their zoslib library [2], which
>> assists in porting applications to z/OS. There is a lot of useful function
>> in this library. It supports dynamically loading and calling modules using
>> thunk routines. Unfortunately, there is a comment in the code which states
>> it only works with xlclang. The library is Apache 2.0 licensed but it has
>> IBM copyright. I'm not a lawyer so I'm unsure of the legalities of using
>> this library for product code.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/cloud-paks/z-modernization-stack/2023.2?topic=languages-cc-open-enterprise-zos
>> [2] https://github.com/ibmruntimes/zoslib
>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAINz
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
IBM C/C++ for Open Enterprise Languages
As if we didn’t already have enough z/OS C/C++ compilers :)
I've recently been working on Python bindings for z/OS products and wanted to
share some useful notes. IBM recently released the IBM C/C++ for Open
Enterprise Languages on z/OS compiler [1], a free version of IBM Open XL C/C++,
which is a port of LLVM/clang. This compiler can only be used for open source.
For example, to build Python, Node, go packages that require a build phase when
installed or contributing to z/OS open source projects. It's important to note
that the IBM Open XL C/C++ compiler is not compatible with XL C/C++ or xlclang
compilers. This incompatibility may pose challenges. Python 3.11 is developed
using IBM Open XL C/C++, while Python 3.10 uses xlclang. As a result, binary
packages created for Python 3.10 won't work with the IBM Open XL C/C++
compiler.
To overcome this issue, the recommended solution is to build Python
distributions that include the source C/C++ code. During the installation
process using pip, this code can be built. There are a few issues with the new
compiler. Firstly, there is no support for "OS" linkage, meaning no #pragma
linkage(module,OS) or extern 'OS' {}. Custom thunk routines need to be written
to address this. Additionally, the compiler supports inline assembly, but the
-qasmlib= option is not available, making macros unusable. A
workaround I found is to assemble some HLASM code and copy-paste from the
listing.
Moreover, the runtime library is not entirely compatible with XL C/C++. I
discovered that the __amrc structure is missing, which breaks my pzfile package
and makes accessing VSAM files nearly impossible. I plan to open a case with
IBM to address this issue.
Another limitation is that the compiler does not produce source/assembly
listings. Furthermore, thread level storage is not supported, which complicates
the process of porting certain libraries.
On a positive note, IBM has open-sourced their zoslib library [2], which
assists in porting applications to z/OS. There is a lot of useful function in
this library. It supports dynamically loading and calling modules using thunk
routines. Unfortunately, there is a comment in the code which states it only
works with xlclang. The library is Apache 2.0 licensed but it has IBM
copyright. I'm not a lawyer so I'm unsure of the legalities of using this
library for product code.
[1]
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/cloud-paks/z-modernization-stack/2023.2?topic=languages-cc-open-enterprise-zos
[2] https://github.com/ibmruntimes/zoslib
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Channelized I/O WAS: Mainframe Makers.... WAS: Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives
> On 7 Aug 2023, at 2:46 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: > > David Crayford wrote: >> Maybe wait until there is actually some tangible AI libraries such as >> TensorFlow, PyTorch and SnapML before blowing trumpets. > > Huh? You *can* run these libraries on z/OS, on zIIPs even. They run on the > z/OS Container Extensions (zCX) or on OpenShift for z/OS, as you prefer. IBM > documents this deployment pattern here (TensorFlow and SnapML examples): > > https://ibm.github.io/ai-on-z-101/tensorflow/ > https://ibm.github.io/ai-on-z-101/snapml/ > Absolutely! The issue is that zCX is not a mature technology. zCX on OpenShift has serious performance issues. It current hogs 5 zIIPS running idle (only running OCP). Of course, it will improve just like DB2, Java etc but it’s not ready for prime time yet. > Are you asking specifically for z/OS UNIX System Services-based > implementations? Of course. Considering the zDDN library is available on z/OS I expected the Python libraries to be available at the same time as Linux on Z. > If so, have you asked IBM in an official way? Yes. It’s in the pipeline but we can’t give you a date :) A bit like Java 17. And that’s a bigger problem because Spring Boot moves to a Java 17 as the baseline in December 2023 which is making a lot of vendors slightly nervous. Although as CICS uses SB I have high hopes. > > — > Timothy Sipples > Senior Architect > Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cybersecurity > IBM zSystems/LinuxONE, Asia-Pacific > sipp...@sg.ibm.com > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Channelized I/O WAS: Mainframe Makers.... WAS: Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives
> On 4 Aug 2023, at 1:01 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: > > David Crayford wrote: >> Other platforms have integrated AI engines, AMD ZenDNN, >> Intel oneDNN etc. Both ship with open source libraries and >> toolkits sadly lacking for z/OS. > > Did you miss zDNN? > Nope, I’m aware. Not quite as open source as the other toolkits but it’s good that IBM have embraced Github. > https://github.com/IBM/zDNN > https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=consider-z-deep-neural-network-library-zdnn > >> I noticed that IBM have shipped patched Python packages for >> TensorFlow and SnapML that exploit Telum for Linux on Z. >> I suppose like everything, we’ll have to wait a while for z/OS. > > Missed this one too? > > https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/evan-rivera/2023/02/24/python-ai-toolkit-for-ibm-zos I suspect you are not familiar with the Python AI Toolkit for z/OS. Apart from SciPy, NumPy and some stuff for Jupyter notebooks there is nothing related to AI in that bundle. It’s nothing more than a curated set of Python packages. Please correct me if I’m wrong. > > Quoting from the IBM Redpaper: > > "The Python AI Toolkit for IBM z/OS also benefits from the IBM zSystems > hardware investments that are lower in the stack. Acceleration from the IBM > Integrated Accelerator for AI provides benefits when running AI workloads > that are built on top of the Python AI Toolkit for IBM z/OS. With this > workload execution acceleration, enterprises can meet successfully some of > the most stringent service-level agreements (SLAs) when integrating AI into > business-critical workloads." > > https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/redp5709.html Maybe wait until there is actually some tangible AI libraries such as TensorFlow, PyTorch and SnapML before blowing trumpets. > > — > Timothy Sipples > Senior Architect > Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cybersecurity > IBM zSystems/LinuxONE, Asia-Pacific > sipp...@sg.ibm.com > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Channelized I/O WAS: Mainframe Makers.... WAS: Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives
> On 3 Aug 2023, at 2:26 am, P H > <04843e86df79-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > The numbers quoted by Tom: > > So I pointed out there's only 12 I/O drawers max on a z16 which is 12 x > 16 = 192 slots or 384 ports max. He replied, but didn't seem to fully > accept that answer. > > are 100% correct. These numbers are the MAXIMUM. Depending on the > configuration, these could be a lot less e.g. the number of coupling links > could reduce the numbers. If z16 is ordered with BPA power supplies, the MAX > I/O drawers go down from 12 to 10. > > I have already mentioned things like cache, memory, I/O Subsystem, on chip > data compression/Crypto (z has been a leader for this)/Sort/AI capabilities. Maybe for crypto but certainly not for AI. My iPhone has a more sophisticated AI engine than the z16. Other platforms have integrated AI engines, AMD ZenDNN, Intel oneDNN etc. Both ship with open source libraries and toolkits sadly lacking for z/OS. I noticed that IBM have shipped patched Python packages for TensorFlow and SnapML that exploit Telum for Linux on Z. I suppose like everything, we’ll have to wait a while for z/OS. Java 11 still does not utilise zEDC compression on z/OS. Talking about compression and crypto, Intel have hardware accelerators as part of QAT, either PCIe cards or on-die. You could argue that the compression tech is better than zEDC as it supports more formats then just gzip. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-quick-assist-technology-overview.html > > Talking about the I/O Subsystem, this is a key strength when it comes to > handling large number of I/Os. Unlike x86, the I/O Subsystem handles this > very well and lets the CP get on with what it's mean to do. What no one has > mentioned is the 'processing' power of z. In addition to the main CPs (up to > 200 for z16 Models A01 and L01), the I/O Subsystem has up eo 192 POWER > processors. These are in a N+1 config making a total of 384 in he sub-system > alone. > > Impressive numbers. What do all these prove? Taken out of context, these are > meaningless. As I stated previously, one has to consisder the whole system. > This is where z has strengths. It has a 'balanced system design'. This > morning I decided to do a full virus scan on my 2 year old latop with an > Intel i5 chip. While the scan was running, I couldn't even open a 10 MB > Powerpoint presentation (before the smartones give me their 2 cents worth, > I know I could have run the scan as a background task). > Get yourself a better machine. My Mac runs clusters of Linux systems on Kubernetes running stacks like Kafka, ELK at a full pelt without breaking a sweat and I can watch YouTube in 4K at the same time. For a more apples to apples comparison to x86 it would be more interesting to compare a z box to an HP Superdome kitted out with all the fruit. There are only three large systems remaining since Oracle killed off the SPARCs. Z, POWER and the super domes. The server market is dominated by single socket rack servers running distributed systems. > Talking about numbers, the Airbus A380 plane has been designed to have up to > 840 passengers. Are there any airlines with A380s which carry such numbers! > > Horses for courses!! > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Tom Brennan > Sent: 02 August 2023 17:34 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Channelized I/O WAS: Mainframe Makers WAS: Ars Technica: The > IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives > >> I’ve missed this thread. > > He first said 1536 ports (not slots, not lanes) on a full z16. I asked > where he got that number. Response was there are 12 fanout slots on a > CEC drawer (true), so with 4 CEC drawers that's 48 fanout slots (true) > which means the 4 CEC drawers could address 48 I/O drawers with 16 cards > each and 2 ports per card = 1536 ports. > > So I pointed out there's only 12 I/O drawers max on a z16 which is 12 x > 16 = 192 slots or 384 ports max. He replied, but didn't seem to fully > accept that answer. > > Later he said there are 1600 slots (not ports, not lanes) on a z16 so I > asked where he got that new number. He said he meant 1536 slots (not > ports, not lanes) so the number doubled from last time. I replied same > as I did previously. > > Below, he said 1536 slots again. 1536 cards on a single z16 could be > over 3000 cables! I've had to untangle some 150+ cable rats nests, but > for that one I'd just say, Naw... I'm going home :) > > On 8/2/2023 1:53 AM, David Crayford wrote: >>> On 2 Aug 2023, at 12:15 pm, Tom Brennan wrote: >>> >>>> The IBM z16 can have up to 1,536 PCIe+ slots >
Re: Channelized I/O WAS: Mainframe Makers.... WAS: Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives
> On 2 Aug 2023, at 12:15 pm, Tom Brennan wrote: > > > The IBM z16 can have up to 1,536 PCIe+ slots > > I'm gonna quit explaining this and just say, "WRONG" every time you say this > as if it's a fact :) I’ve missed this thread. By 1,536 PCIe slots, that’s slots not lanes right? Even if it were lanes that would be a ludicrous suggestions! That’s so far fetched it’s laughable. The Redbook [1] is quite clear about I/O configurations. What I find interesting is that the z16 seems to use PCIe gen 3 and not gen 4 which doubles the transfer rate per lane. There must be a good technical reason for this. [1] https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg248951.pdf > > On 8/1/2023 8:01 PM, Jon Perryman wrote: >> > On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 05:20:33 PM PDT, David Crayford >> wrote: >>> What’s the difference between between channelized I/O and a rack of >>> x86 servers connected to a SAN using fibre channel driven by high speed >>> HBAs? >> PCIe was created specifically for PCs and IBM z16 chose to use that as their >> only channel technology. Channelized I/O for PC has been available for >> several decades and is not limited to PCIe. The IBM z16 can have up to 1,536 >> PCIe+ slots. >> As for x86 fiber channel connection to a PC, PCIe is only one possibility. >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: They are *all* dinosaurs
> On 2 Aug 2023, at 11:38 am, Jon Perryman wrote: > >> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 05:18:46 PM PDT, David Crayford >> wrote: >> The obvious difference is that C/C++ etc are still evolving. >> The z/OS COBOL compiler hasn’t implemented significant features >> of the ANSI standard. If I were a COBOL programmer I would like >> the language to support collections, dictionaries etc but I suppose >> the type of applications where COBOL is used don’t require hash tables. > > Are you suggesting that COBOL programmers should stop using instorage VSAM > KSDS and learn how to use collections, dictionaries and hash tables? Are you > saying that KSDS doesn't solve these exact problems using a facility > programmers use daily? That’s not what I’m saying at all. My point is that IBM don’t invest in COBOL to implement features in the language standard whereas MicroFocus do. Most probably because they don’t have customer requirements asking for them. I mostly program in C++ and Java these days and take it for granted that they have built-in standard libraries for data structures and algorithms. COBOL doesn’t even support dynamic arrays but most COBOL programmers are used to having to use the file system to make up for the lack collections. Performing binary searches using SEARCH ALL was as good as it got back when I was working with COBOL. > > I don't use Cobol because it's boring and nothing to do with it's ability to > solve business problems. I think that Cobol allows programmers to be business > line experts instead of computer experts. I’m not knocking COBOL. The raison d’être of the mainframe is to run applications written in COBOL. > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mainframe Makers.... WAS: Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives
Take for example an Emulex (Broadcom) HBA. The quad port adapter can handle up to 10M IOPS with a throughput rate of 12,800MB/s full duplex using 16-lane PCIe which utilities DMA. All I/O is offloaded, interrupts, multiplexing etc. When you consider that a standard commodity rack server such as an AMD EPYC can support 128 PCIe lanes and up to 8 memory channels I would suggest x86 can handle a lot of I/O if you have the right gear. https://docs.broadcom.com/doc/LPe35000-LPe36000-PB > On 2 Aug 2023, at 10:42 am, Grant Taylor > <023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > On 8/1/23 7:20 PM, David Crayford wrote: >> What’s the difference between between channelized I/O and a rack of x86 >> servers connected to a SAN using fibre channel driven by high speed HBAs? > > I don't know. > > My understanding is that Fibre Channel is an evolution of SCSI which is > supposedly a somewhat intelligent controller wherein the OS asks said > controller to fetch / store some data for it. As I understand it, the OS & > main CPU aren't involved in the transfer beyond asking the controller to do > the transfer on it's behalf. > > I'd have to reference documentation to see if / how much Direct Memory Access > comes into play vs the CPU's involvement in the transfer to / from the > controller. > > But between the controller and the back end drive, as I understand it, the > CPU ins't involved. > > So I can't say that "a rack of x86 servers connected to a SAN using fibre > channel" isn't using channelized I/O. I think in many ways they are. > > This is a place where minutia matters. > > > > Grnat. . . . > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mainframe Makers.... WAS: Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives
What’s the difference between between channelized I/O and a rack of x86 servers connected to a SAN using fibre channel driven by high speed HBAs? > On 2 Aug 2023, at 6:53 am, Grant Taylor > <023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > On 8/1/23 3:10 PM, Rick Troth wrote: >> Look for channelized I/O, > > Didn't supers ~> cray use channelized I/O? > > Also, I feel like there is another slippery slope discussion of what is > channelized I/O in this context. > >> then other physical attributes (not just size, not just the instruction set). > > Please elaborate on what "other physical attributes" means. > > > > Grant. . . . > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: They are *all* dinosaurs
> On 31 Jul 2023, at 10:28 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > The media sling around terms like dinosaur and legacy for mainframes and > mainframe software, and tout "new" languages and platforms like C, Unix and > windows. But look at the dates and explain to me, e.g., how z is legacy but > x86 is not, how z/OS is legacy but Unix is not, how COBOL and PL/I are legacy > but C is not. > > The obvious difference is that C/C++ etc are still evolving. The C23 and C++23 standards are due for ratification next year. C++ from 1998 is a different language to C++20. PL/I has been functionally stabilised for decades. The z/OS COBOL compiler hasn’t implemented significant features of the ANSI standard. If I were a COBOL programmer I would like the language to support collections, dictionaries etc but I suppose the type of applications where COBOL is used don’t require hash tables. > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Will z/OS be obsolete in 5 years?
> On 19 Jul 2023, at 12:44 pm, kekronbekron > <02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > The "gift" is not containers but container tech... layering. > Just lifting and shifting distributed tech onto mainframe, with no > consideration of the extreme complexities is very wasteful. > Container orchestration exists because some of those containers (or the hosts > they may run on) may have a problem. > How likely is that to happen on Z? > I know there's also the thing about service boundary, isolation etc. but do > we really need all of that, totally ignoring equivalent patterns that already > exist in zOS? There are a lot of very wise an experienced folks who have quite clearly stated that conatainers are critical to the future of z/OS. > > Yes, zCX lets you treat a container as just another address space. > But at the added complexity of container-related setup itself that needs to > happen within/across zCX. > With native containers being controlled with systemd (which will be possible > if LSS exists), we needn't touch kubernetes with a 100 foot poll. > Just because everyone is jumping about K doesn't mean it makes sense as a > universal solution. > > Anyway, there's already a lot of work from IBM indicating that zOS will > become just another dumb box that's controllable by the kuberlords (not using > this term in a derogatory manner, just referring to container people, usually > distributed folks). > I don’t have a a problem with that. I recently saw a demo from IBM where they spun up a z/OS system running on OCP on Linux for Z. IBM has written a large collection of Ansible modules to do useful things like define a DB2 system, IMS system gens, CICS stuff etc. I was impressed. We have Ansible where I work and can stand up development z/OS images on z/VM. Very handy if you doing systems level programming and don’t want to hose the LPAR you share with your team. This new stuff was next level. > - KB > > --- Original Message --- > On Wednesday, July 19th, 2023 at 9:39 AM, David Crayford > wrote: > > >>> On 19 Jul 2023, at 9:52 am, kekronbekron >>> 02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote: >>> >>> Here's a dumb and bold prediction - the guts of RHEL (CoreOS) will be laid >>> bare within zOS. >> >> >> Nice idea, but I doubt it. >> >>> USS becomes LSS. zOS native containers are actually normal containers that >>> you see in the linux world. >>> DSFS and zCX end up helping to blur the boundaries between zOS and LSS. >> >> >> Containers on their own are of limited use. You really need clusters and >> orchestration for it to be useful. We have z/CX Foundation for Red Hat >> OpenShift which requires 6 zIIPs just to idle. I’m sure it will get there in >> the end but it’s a dog at the moment. >> >>> zOS is not going away. But we could all use a total re-think of zOSMF. >>> >>> - KB >>> >>> --- Original Message --- >>> On Wednesday, July 19th, 2023 at 6:17 AM, Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net >>> wrote: >>> >>>> IBM RHEL announced it's move to closed source (IBM RedHat Enterprise >>>> Linux). With some changes, DB2, RACF and other z/OS products could run in >>>> Linux on z16 in one sysplexed Linux image. We know it's possible because >>>> IBM moved Unix and TCP into z/OS. IBM RHEL said closed source would force >>>> non-paying customers to buy RHEL licenses but this makes no sense. >>>> Something else must be in play. >>>> I created a survey at https://forms.gle/ZTPXsDJo8Z4H93sv7 to gain insights >>>> into IBM's decision to close source RHEL. You can skip the survey if you >>>> don't want to take it and view the survey results through this website. >>>> Feel free to pass this along. >>>> I think IBM wants to integrate z/OS products to retain their investments >>>> and expand their customer base.. >>>> Why is the z/OS community ignoring IBM RHEL closed source? Are software >>>> vendors preparing their products for Linux? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the messa
Re: Will z/OS be obsolete in 5 years?
> On 19 Jul 2023, at 9:52 am, kekronbekron > <02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Here's a dumb and bold prediction - the guts of RHEL (CoreOS) will be laid > bare within zOS. Nice idea, but I doubt it. > USS becomes LSS. zOS native containers are actually normal containers that > you see in the linux world. > DSFS and zCX end up helping to blur the boundaries between zOS and LSS. Containers on their own are of limited use. You really need clusters and orchestration for it to be useful. We have z/CX Foundation for Red Hat OpenShift which requires 6 zIIPs just to idle. I’m sure it will get there in the end but it’s a dog at the moment. > zOS is not going away. But we could all use a total re-think of zOSMF. > > - KB > > --- Original Message --- > On Wednesday, July 19th, 2023 at 6:17 AM, Jon Perryman > wrote: > > >> IBM RHEL announced it's move to closed source (IBM RedHat Enterprise Linux). >> With some changes, DB2, RACF and other z/OS products could run in Linux on >> z16 in one sysplexed Linux image. We know it's possible because IBM moved >> Unix and TCP into z/OS. IBM RHEL said closed source would force non-paying >> customers to buy RHEL licenses but this makes no sense. Something else must >> be in play. >> I created a survey at https://forms.gle/ZTPXsDJo8Z4H93sv7 to gain insights >> into IBM's decision to close source RHEL. You can skip the survey if you >> don't want to take it and view the survey results through this website. Feel >> free to pass this along. >> I think IBM wants to integrate z/OS products to retain their investments and >> expand their customer base.. >> Why is the z/OS community ignoring IBM RHEL closed source? Are software >> vendors preparing their products for Linux? >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Will z/OS be obsolete in 5 years?
> On 19 Jul 2023, at 11:28 am, zMan wrote: > > Bill, Bill, Bill. Stick to stuff you know something about. IF quantum > computers ever become realistically powerful, they will have VERY specific > uses. They are not suited for general-purpose computing. Nobody even > quantum-adjacent disputes that, as even the most cursory reading of the > research papers will tell you, > 100%. One scary usage is cracking crypto. There is a new acronym Y2Q (Years to Quantum) which is a point in the future when somebody cracks the qubits and all our cryptographic algorithms are bust. Needless to say, nation states are all racing to get there first! Photonic transistors and Graphene will be the next big thing. > Note also that quantum machines with the many-thousands of qubits needed > for real use have been "almost here" for quite some time; most people who > aren't scamming money admit that they don't know when or even if they're > actually achievable. Which doesn't make the research a bad thing, of > course. Just keep your hand on your wallet. > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:21 PM Bill Johnson < > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> Quantum computing is the future. And IBM is the leader. >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/karlfreund/2023/06/14/ibm-achieves-breakthrough-in-quantum-computing/ >> >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023, 8:47 PM, Jon Perryman >> wrote: >> >> IBM RHEL announced it's move to closed source (IBM RedHat Enterprise >> Linux). With some changes, DB2, RACF and other z/OS products could run in >> Linux on z16 in one sysplexed Linux image. We know it's possible because >> IBM moved Unix and TCP into z/OS. IBM RHEL said closed source would force >> non-paying customers to buy RHEL licenses but this makes no sense. >> Something else must be in play. >> I created a survey at https://forms.gle/ZTPXsDJo8Z4H93sv7 to gain >> insights into IBM's decision to close source RHEL. You can skip the survey >> if you don't want to take it and view the survey results through this >> website. Feel free to pass this along. >> I think IBM wants to integrate z/OS products to retain their investments >> and expand their customer base.. >> Why is the z/OS community ignoring IBM RHEL closed source? Are software >> vendors preparing their products for Linux? >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > > -- > zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS
It’s an easy fix. Ask the admins to upgrade Python and happy days. Looks like you’re running beta code or worse on Z XPlore. I would be reluctant to address any issues from that system. > On 17 Jul 2023, at 10:14 pm, Farley, Peter > <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Since it was one of the Rocket developers who requested that I try to get a > dump to be analyzed by them, I intend to respect their request and continue > to try to provide one to them if I am able to do so. > > Peter > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > David Crayford > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 1:54 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS > > > >>> On 17 Jul 2023, at 12:44 pm, Farley, Peter >>> <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>> >>> wrote: >> >> > >> Dave, > >> > >> It may well be that the python V3.9.2 on the Zxplore system is “broken” as >> you suggest, but getting a dump that proves it to the Zxplore admins still >> could help goad them to more rapidly upgrade the python that is available >> there. I don’t see that as a useless exercise or as wasting time chasing at >> shadows. > >> > >> Nailing down the root cause of an issue is not useless. > > > > So you expect the maintainers of ibm_db to identify the underlying cause, > which is broken Python 3.9.2? I find that expectation unreasonable. Perhaps > you should consider opening a case with IBM to address this issue. However, I > can provide you with insight into what their response might be: "Python 3.9.2 > is no longer supported; please upgrade Python to the latest version." Another > concern is that you are utilizing a system where you lack control or > influence over the application of maintenance. > > > > The assumption that Python 3.9.2 is stable may not hold true. Since it is > unsupported and no longer available for download, it raises questions about > how the Rocket developers are able to test it in the first place. > > > >> > >> Peter > >> > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List >> mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of >> David Crayford > >> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2023 7:46 PM > >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> > >> Subject: Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS > >> > >> It seems to me that the Zxplore Python is badly broken and has major issues >> with codepage translation. we’ve seen this before when you opened an issue >> for pyzfile. I’m going to update the ticket to that effect so the >> maintainers don’t waste time chasing shadows. > >> > >>>> On 17 Jul 2023, at 3:57 am, Farley, Peter >>>> <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu%3cmailto:031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>>> >>>> wrote: >> >> > >>> Peter, > >> > >>> A CEEDUMP was in fact supplied to the ibmdb team on github in the initial >>> error report that I filed there. I generate a CEEDUMP in my $HOME >>> directory every time I execute the example python script. > >> > >>> I don't think any of the ibmdb team has reviewed the dump that I submitted >>> as of yet, or at least none have yet replied to my error report with any >>> questions concerning the contents of that dump. > >> > >>> Peter > >> > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List >>> mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU%3cmailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>>> >>> On Behalf Of Peter Relson > >> > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2023 9:01 AM > >> > >>> To: >>> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU%3cmailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> > >> > >>> Subject: Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS > >> > >>> It's not expected that a SLIP dump is required to debug an application >>> error (whether it's a segment fault or anything else). Quite the reverse. > >> > >>> So in what way was the CEEDUMP and/or transaction dump not adequate? That >>> should be brought to the attention of t
Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS
> On 17 Jul 2023, at 12:44 pm, Farley, Peter > <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Dave, > > It may well be that the python V3.9.2 on the Zxplore system is “broken” as > you suggest, but getting a dump that proves it to the Zxplore admins still > could help goad them to more rapidly upgrade the python that is available > there. I don’t see that as a useless exercise or as wasting time chasing at > shadows. > > Nailing down the root cause of an issue is not useless. So you expect the maintainers of ibm_db to identify the underlying cause, which is broken Python 3.9.2? I find that expectation unreasonable. Perhaps you should consider opening a case with IBM to address this issue. However, I can provide you with insight into what their response might be: "Python 3.9.2 is no longer supported; please upgrade Python to the latest version." Another concern is that you are utilizing a system where you lack control or influence over the application of maintenance. The assumption that Python 3.9.2 is stable may not hold true. Since it is unsupported and no longer available for download, it raises questions about how the Rocket developers are able to test it in the first place. > > Peter > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > David Crayford > Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2023 7:46 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS > > > It seems to me that the Zxplore Python is badly broken and has major issues > with codepage translation. we’ve seen this before when you opened an issue > for pyzfile. I’m going to update the ticket to that effect so the > maintainers don’t waste time chasing shadows. > > > >> On 17 Jul 2023, at 3:57 am, Farley, Peter >> <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>> >> wrote: > >> > >> Peter, > >> > >> A CEEDUMP was in fact supplied to the ibmdb team on github in the initial >> error report that I filed there. I generate a CEEDUMP in my $HOME directory >> every time I execute the example python script. > >> > >> I don't think any of the ibmdb team has reviewed the dump that I submitted >> as of yet, or at least none have yet replied to my error report with any >> questions concerning the contents of that dump. > >> > >> Peter > >> > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List >> mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of >> Peter Relson > >> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2023 9:01 AM > >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> > >> Subject: Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS > >> > >> It's not expected that a SLIP dump is required to debug an application error >> (whether it's a segment fault or anything else). Quite the reverse. > >> > >> So in what way was the CEEDUMP and/or transaction dump not adequate? That >> should be brought to the attention of the LE team. > >> > >> Peter Relson > >> > >> z/OS Core Technology Design > >> > > -- > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If > the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail > and delete the message and any attachments from your system. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS
It seems to me that the Zxplore Python is badly broken and has major issues with codepage translation. we’ve seen this before when you opened an issue for pyzfile. I’m going to update the ticket to that effect so the maintainers don’t waste time chasing shadows. > On 17 Jul 2023, at 3:57 am, Farley, Peter > <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Peter, > > A CEEDUMP was in fact supplied to the ibmdb team on github in the initial > error report that I filed there. I generate a CEEDUMP in my $HOME directory > every time I execute the example python script. > > I don't think any of the ibmdb team has reviewed the dump that I submitted as > of yet, or at least none have yet replied to my error report with any > questions concerning the contents of that dump. > > Peter > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Peter Relson > Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2023 9:01 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS > > > > It's not expected that a SLIP dump is required to debug an application error > (whether it's a segment fault or anything else). Quite the reverse. > > > > So in what way was the CEEDUMP and/or transaction dump not adequate? That > should be brought to the attention of the LE team. > > > > Peter Relson > > z/OS Core Technology Design > > -- > > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If > the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail > and delete the message and any attachments from your system. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS
Here are our LE settings. It seems DYNDUMP is significant, you can specify this
as a runtime option https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.4.0?topic=ulero-dyndump.
CEEDUMP(60,SYSOUT=*,FREE=END,
SPIN=UNALLOC)
DYNDUMP(*USERID.CEEDUMP,DYNAMIC,TDUMP)
ENVAR("TZ=GMT-8")
NATLANG(ENU)
TERMTHDACT(UADUMP,,)
Peter,
I strongly suspect this abend is due to a build issue. When Ibm_db is installed
using pip3 it is compiled from source as it’s a cross-platform library. As I
previously mentioned, there may be compatibility issues depending on how the
environment is setup. I urge you to reach out to the admins and ask them how
they built this package. I notice that you have opened an issue in Github and
that the Rocket devs are involved. Before we start diving into dumps can you
please confirm the environment is sound first.
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/python-zos/3.9?topic=information-using-distutils-module
>> Note: There might be compatibility issues when mixing xlc and
xlclang for compiled code and thus only one should be used consistently for
building and linking modules.
> On 16 Jul 2023, at 9:18 am, David Crayford wrote:
>
> Are you sure you don’t have a dump? LE is usually configured with
> TERMTHDACT(UADUMP) which creates a transaction (SYSMDUMP). Look in the
> syslog. Set the following environment variable to enable dumps by default.
>
> export _CEE_RUNOPTS=FILETAG(AUTOCVT,AUTOTAG) TERMTHDACT(UADUMP)
> ABTERMENC(ABEND)
>
> FYI, ibm_db is in beta status so I wouldn’t consider using it for real work.
> We had a look at this abend a few weeks ago but couldn’t re-create it. It
> only happens with Python3.9 which we don’t have installed. We suspected an
> ABI problem where the package was built using a different compiler to the
> Python VM. The IBM XL C compiler is not compatible with IBM Open XL C/C++.
>
>> On 16 Jul 2023, at 2:17 am, Farley, Peter
>> <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for trying to help Jon, but “IBM” hasn’t *officially* looked at
>> anything. The python ibmdb team is an open source collective (perhaps
>> including some IBM employees, but I do not know that for sure) and is not
>> “official” IBM support at all. One of the ibmdb team has asked for an
>> SVCDUMP as they may have seen this error previously but could not follow up
>> on it at that time.
>>
>> I do not have access to set the SLIP to catch this abend, I have to rely on
>> the admins at the Zxplore system to do that, and they are not experts
>> either. Zxplore is a “student learning” system that IBM runs in the cloud
>> but solving a problem with the python ibmdb code is not very high on their
>> list of priorities, though they have been trying to help here. I am not
>> dealing with an experienced z/OS sysprog on Zxplore for this task, just a
>> system “administrator” who has considerable authority on the system.
>>
>> The python program stops altogether after the abend even with a try/except
>> (at least I think it does – I will double check that) so there is no chance
>> to output anything after the abend. If it turns out that a try/except works
>> I will try getting an output to /dev/console after the abend and see if that
>> can help generate a dump. I am not sure that an SVCDUMP after the python
>> program terminates would be at all helpful, but I am not an expert in that
>> area either.
>>
>> Again, thanks for trying to help.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
>> Jon Perryman
>> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2023 11:28 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: How to set a SLIP to catch S0C4 in OMVS separate AS
>>
>> As you discovered, S0C4 SLIPs are at the best of times a pain in the a$$.
>> S0C4 is difficult because it has a real use which is to determine if a page
>> has been created (not just allocated). It requires multiple SLIP IGNORE
>> which can be obtained from IBM. Since you are working with IBM support, I
>> assume they gave you these SLIP IGNORE to be defined the SLIP SVCDUMP. It
>> would be helpful to see the SLIPs provided by IBM.
>> I assume IBM looked at the CEEDUMP but it did not contain anything that
>> would be useful for setting a SLIP. This leaves you with some trial and
>> error. Without anything to go on, here's what I would look consider.
>> 1. If you repeat the abend, does it occur at the same address? If so,
>> ADDRESS=,COND=0C4 may be your easiest option.2. If you can get quiet time
>> on a system, you can
