Re: [MBZ] Learning to weld
Yeah. Save your money. Forget the class. Buy a mig welder and practice on some
scrap metal then ask us and we'll teach you the intricacies of the whole
process.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 20, 2010, at 1:28 AM, Jim Cathey wrote:
I am looking to do the same thing ("I was looking for a welding class') one of
these days, but I just cant seem to find the time right now.
An alternate approach is to buy a $100 rusty car and a welder,
and have at it! That's what I did...
-- Jim
___
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___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: more 140 ignorance and hate
I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. And those are two _completely_ different statements! Like to see my weld jobs on the Frankenheap? :-) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Learning to weld
I am looking to do the same thing ("I was looking for a welding
class') one of these days, but I just cant seem to find the time
right now.
An alternate approach is to buy a $100 rusty car and a welder,
and have at it! That's what I did...
-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
Now that's what I'm thinking! Andrew, you need to check out Gael's car. We worked some magic on that baby. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 20, 2010, at 1:00 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Why can't we all just get along? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: I dont think there was anything untrue in any of that. On 12/19/2010 6:05 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: The list has been just fine until the last day or 2. As far as being asleep at the wheel, I have actually been on the road all weekend. I have not decided it I want to ban or moderate anybody yet. I am hoping it sorts itself out rather soon. As for people on this list slandering Richarde, I do not know what you are talking about The only statements of fact, true or otherwise, I recall seeing about Richarde were a claim that he posts with incredible frequency on facebook and something about Rusty paying him $2000 a month for mbz.org. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Thanks. By textured paint I assume you mean the areas down low? It is basically painted over undercoating. The regular off the shelf rubberized undercoating won't do. There are several options available that can duplicate this undercoating although I have been unable to 100% faithfully copy what was there. The original stuff is very rubbery and pliable and no product that I have found has had that quality. Anyway, I have used a variety of products. Wurth made a product which is meant to be applied with a special gun. I just applied it with a brush and stippled over the surface to duplicate the texture of the factory sprayed undercoating. 3M has a body shutz which is probably similar to the Wurth product. 3M also has a rocker panel spray which also takes some finishing over with a brush to smooth out the overly rough texture. Seam sealer is another product that can be used but again you have to be creative in its application to get a factory look. All these products then get primed and painted body color. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 7:21 PM, E M wrote: Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the "right" way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
Why can't we all just get along? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > I dont think there was anything untrue in any of that. > > On 12/19/2010 6:05 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: >> >> Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: >>> >>> The list has been just fine until the last day or 2. As far as being >>> asleep at the wheel, I have actually been on the road all weekend. I have >>> not decided it I want to ban or moderate anybody yet. I am hoping it sorts >>> itself out rather soon. As for people on this list slandering Richarde, I do >>> not know what you are talking about >> >> The only statements of fact, true or otherwise, I recall seeing about >> Richarde were a claim that he posts with incredible frequency on facebook >> and something about Rusty paying him $2000 a month for mbz.org. >> >> >> Mitch. >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> - >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 >> >> > > -- > Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK > 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, > 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, > 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The continuing 124 rear suspension saga
I have pondered this phenomenon, but have no direct answer. My suspicion is that maybe somehow the spring link (LCA) stretches under high mileage. Perhaps the link mountings distort, but nothing is obvious. With this phenomenon, I have not suspected springs as the springs and rubber seats appear ok, and the height seems ok. I have NOT measured the height. Perhaps a really good frame straightening shop can help. They should have all the measurements etc. A friend has a 00 volvo that has been crabbing really bad, and pulling to the left. many alignment and "vovlo only" shops could not fix it or find a problem. I suggested he find a frame straightening shop. He took it in and they immediately found the problem and fixed it. He is very happy now. I CAN tell you that you are not alone. OK 124 (and 201) experts, here's my puzzle. After replacing the four links and also the bushings at each end of the spring link, I STILL have negative camber on my 124 wagon. It is better, but it's still there. :( So, I've thought of a couple of causes and options. 1) Eccentric bolt and elongated holes at the inner end of either the spring link or the camber link, and adjust the camber directly. There is a note in the Tech. Modification notes of the service manual that the very early 124 cars had such an adjustment, but it was eliminated. 2) Rear springs are worn out; Replace em! 3) Rear spring pads are worn out; Replace em! How can I measure the ride height to determine if the negative camber is due to decreased ride height? -Max (feeling a little negative) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The continuing 124 rear suspension saga
On the upside, while excessive negative camber won't be doing the wear rate on the inside of your rear tires any good, it will improve your contact patch in the twisties, and allow you to corner like a hooligan. ;-) hee hee Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 23:11, Peter Frederick wrote: > I would have replaced the spring pads when I did the links (as I plan to do > on mine) -- if the rubber in the links is bad, the rubber in the pads is > also bad. > > I know this was a problem with someone else's car a few years back but I > don't know what the solution was. > > There is some negative camber that is normal, just like a BMW, the rear > wheels are not supposed to stand straight up and normal ride height. > > Peter > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
Very wise thinking there Max! ;-) Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 23:05, Max Dillon wrote: > Ed, but you see, the low cost of the paint job figures into the true price > of the car, which is "How much will SWMBO let me spend?" Let's say I spend > $1000 on the car, and then $1000 (or more!!) on paint. Then I'll have a > beautifully painted in car, in which I can sleep every night - NOT! > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of E M > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:53 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > If it's going to be a garage queen and saved for special occasions, you > might want to rethink that $70 bucket and roller paint job. hee hee. ;-) > > Ed > 300E > > On 19 December 2010 22:40, Max Dillon wrote: > > > If I bought this car, it would mostly be a garage queen, used for Friday > > night dates and other social occasions, so I don't think the fuel > > consumption would be too much of an issue. > > > > -Max > > > > -Original Message- > > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto: > mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > > On Behalf Of Peter Frederick > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:16 PM > > To: Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > > > Not that they aren't a wonderful car to drive, and a great ride all > > round, it's just that they really aren't an economic means of > > transportation. Mine does much better in the snow and ice than my 87 > > 300D, but I still hate to drive it at 14 mpg on premium. > > > > Peter > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The continuing 124 rear suspension saga
Maybe someone on the list has a similar car, that they know for sure the suspension is setup right. If so, maybe they can take a measurement of a fixed point on the underside, to give you a baseline of what your car's ride height should be? Just a thought I'm throwing out there. I'm sitting on the side lines, reading and taking all this in and learning what I can. I figure soon or later, I'll need to do all this too if I keep the car long enough. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 23:01, Max Dillon wrote: > OK 124 (and 201) experts, here's my puzzle. After replacing the four links > and also the bushings at each end of the spring link, I STILL have negative > camber on my 124 wagon. It is better, but it's still there. :( > > So, I've thought of a couple of causes and options. > > 1) Eccentric bolt and elongated holes at the inner end of either the spring > link or the camber link, and adjust the camber directly. There is a note > in > the Tech. Modification notes of the service manual that the very early 124 > cars had such an adjustment, but it was eliminated. > > 2) Rear springs are worn out; Replace em! > > 3) Rear spring pads are worn out; Replace em! > > How can I measure the ride height to determine if the negative camber is > due > to decreased ride height? > > -Max (feeling a little negative) > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The continuing 124 rear suspension saga
I would have replaced the spring pads when I did the links (as I plan to do on mine) -- if the rubber in the links is bad, the rubber in the pads is also bad. I know this was a problem with someone else's car a few years back but I don't know what the solution was. There is some negative camber that is normal, just like a BMW, the rear wheels are not supposed to stand straight up and normal ride height. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140)
No, they were bad all the way along. Something about copper tubing swaged onto aluminum. Even a biologist like me knows that's going to fail, sooner or later the differential expansion will cause enough stress corrosion for them to leak. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The continuing 124 rear suspension saga
Let me clarify: Option 1 should read "Modify the rear suspension by adding eccentric bolt and making elongated holes at ..." -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 11:01 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] The continuing 124 rear suspension saga OK 124 (and 201) experts, here's my puzzle. After replacing the four links and also the bushings at each end of the spring link, I STILL have negative camber on my 124 wagon. It is better, but it's still there. :( So, I've thought of a couple of causes and options. 1) Eccentric bolt and elongated holes at the inner end of either the spring link or the camber link, and adjust the camber directly. There is a note in the Tech. Modification notes of the service manual that the very early 124 cars had such an adjustment, but it was eliminated. 2) Rear springs are worn out; Replace em! 3) Rear spring pads are worn out; Replace em! How can I measure the ride height to determine if the negative camber is due to decreased ride height? -Max (feeling a little negative) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
Ed, but you see, the low cost of the paint job figures into the true price of the car, which is "How much will SWMBO let me spend?" Let's say I spend $1000 on the car, and then $1000 (or more!!) on paint. Then I'll have a beautifully painted in car, in which I can sleep every night - NOT! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of E M Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:53 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? If it's going to be a garage queen and saved for special occasions, you might want to rethink that $70 bucket and roller paint job. hee hee. ;-) Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 22:40, Max Dillon wrote: > If I bought this car, it would mostly be a garage queen, used for Friday > night dates and other social occasions, so I don't think the fuel > consumption would be too much of an issue. > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Peter Frederick > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:16 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > Not that they aren't a wonderful car to drive, and a great ride all > round, it's just that they really aren't an economic means of > transportation. Mine does much better in the snow and ice than my 87 > 300D, but I still hate to drive it at 14 mpg on premium. > > Peter > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The continuing 124 rear suspension saga
OK 124 (and 201) experts, here's my puzzle. After replacing the four links and also the bushings at each end of the spring link, I STILL have negative camber on my 124 wagon. It is better, but it's still there. :( So, I've thought of a couple of causes and options. 1) Eccentric bolt and elongated holes at the inner end of either the spring link or the camber link, and adjust the camber directly. There is a note in the Tech. Modification notes of the service manual that the very early 124 cars had such an adjustment, but it was eliminated. 2) Rear springs are worn out; Replace em! 3) Rear spring pads are worn out; Replace em! How can I measure the ride height to determine if the negative camber is due to decreased ride height? -Max (feeling a little negative) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
If it's going to be a garage queen and saved for special occasions, you might want to rethink that $70 bucket and roller paint job. hee hee. ;-) Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 22:40, Max Dillon wrote: > If I bought this car, it would mostly be a garage queen, used for Friday > night dates and other social occasions, so I don't think the fuel > consumption would be too much of an issue. > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Peter Frederick > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:16 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > Not that they aren't a wonderful car to drive, and a great ride all > round, it's just that they really aren't an economic means of > transportation. Mine does much better in the snow and ice than my 87 > 300D, but I still hate to drive it at 14 mpg on premium. > > Peter > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
If I bought this car, it would mostly be a garage queen, used for Friday night dates and other social occasions, so I don't think the fuel consumption would be too much of an issue. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:16 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? Not that they aren't a wonderful car to drive, and a great ride all round, it's just that they really aren't an economic means of transportation. Mine does much better in the snow and ice than my 87 300D, but I still hate to drive it at 14 mpg on premium. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140)
The general decline started somewhere around 84-85. Going cheap on the 124 evap was a "hidden" way to cut corners in more than one way. My dealer friend came back from Germany somewhere in there, and told us the decline was beginning, because outside forces were making "engineering" decisions. It has been a continuing slide , until mow, or maybe a turn-around has started? the looks of the the 2010 line make me think the decline is still headed downhill. I think the 124 evaporators went the other way; started out fine in 86/87, but in the 90's they went down hill. Basically the same as the wiring harnesses. -Max (with a '95 124 with new replacement harness, suspiciously low on r134...) -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 1:24 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140) John Freer wrote: > People also equate the evaporator and wiring harness failures to the W140 but I suspect there are just a few W124 owners who have had some bad experiences in these areas as well. John But weren't the W124 evaporators pretty much straightened out by 1992? Seems like that would have taught them how to do the W140 evaps right by the time the W140 hit these shores. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] re:AMG photo attachment test ?
shot of AMG catalog, 1 of 4 pages on W123. This I noticed is a larger pic, but maybe it will be compressed somehow when uploaded ? Ed 300E On 17 December 2010 20:56, MG wrote: > Ed when you get a chance to scan those pictures of the 123 wagon please > send me a set. I would love to see them. Though I guess if they look real > cool I will regret it. > > Manfred > > > > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:46:38 -0500 > From: E M > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] RUF > > > [SNIP] > > > (Benz content)..I have an old original AMG catalog. Lots of neat stuff > back > when AMG was a stand alone tuner. They even had kits for the W123 wagon!! > I also liked the look of it. If I ever get a scanner, I'll post some pics > from it. Funny to look back now, at what seemed like King Kong power back > then!! hee hee Still, the Hammer was a hot piece of kit for it's day! 186 > mph in a 4 door W124, unheard of. > > Ed > 911SC > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Old AMG Catalog #1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 3682399 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101219/342008a7/attachment.jpe> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
I dont think there was anything untrue in any of that. On 12/19/2010 6:05 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: The list has been just fine until the last day or 2. As far as being asleep at the wheel, I have actually been on the road all weekend. I have not decided it I want to ban or moderate anybody yet. I am hoping it sorts itself out rather soon. As for people on this list slandering Richarde, I do not know what you are talking about The only statements of fact, true or otherwise, I recall seeing about Richarde were a claim that he posts with incredible frequency on facebook and something about Rusty paying him $2000 a month for mbz.org. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140)
I think the 124 evaporators went the other way; started out fine in 86/87, but in the 90's they went down hill. Basically the same as the wiring harnesses. -Max (with a '95 124 with new replacement harness, suspiciously low on r134...) -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 1:24 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140) John Freer wrote: > People also equate the > evaporator and wiring harness failures to the W140 but I suspect there > are just a few W124 owners who have had some bad experiences in these > areas as well. > John But weren't the W124 evaporators pretty much straightened out by 1992? Seems like that would have taught them how to do the W140 evaps right by the time the W140 hit these shores. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] RUF
I think that 1.2 meg is a bit too large for the list. You could send them to me direct and then I can reduce them and send them on to the list. Though to be honest a scan of the catalog would probably come out better then a picture of it. I think that most email programs have a button to click on that will allow you to attach pictures or files to an email. The exact procedure will be different for every program. Not too much help I know but usually it's just a matter of follow the prompts. Manfred Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:44:20 -0500 From: E M To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] RUF Just had an idea. If you or someone could walk me quickly through how to attach photos, I could try to take a few pics of the catalog, and attach them here. Can I attach photos here, send, and then wait for admin approval before they're posted ? The pics I think are on average about 1.2 mb, but don't ask me to reduce them in size, I don't have a clue about such things. Learning to make the came go click and upload them was challenge enough! hee hee Ed 300E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] RUF
Thanks Mao, I'll give it a shot within the next few mins. Let me know how it comes through please. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 20:59, Mountain Man wrote: > Ed wrote: > > If you or someone could walk me quickly through how to attach photos... > > I see you are using gmail. > If you are using the browser gmail - you will see a selection to > 'Attach a file' and once you clik that, you browse to select the > picture you want us to see. Try one picture, then we can see how > 1.2mb comes through to the list. > If you are using an email client, there should be some way to attach a > file. > mao > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] RUF
Ed wrote: > If you or someone could walk me quickly through how to attach photos... I see you are using gmail. If you are using the browser gmail - you will see a selection to 'Attach a file' and once you clik that, you browse to select the picture you want us to see. Try one picture, then we can see how 1.2mb comes through to the list. If you are using an email client, there should be some way to attach a file. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] RUF
Just had an idea. If you or someone could walk me quickly through how to attach photos, I could try to take a few pics of the catalog, and attach them here. Can I attach photos here, send, and then wait for admin approval before they're posted ? The pics I think are on average about 1.2 mb, but don't ask me to reduce them in size, I don't have a clue about such things. Learning to make the came go click and upload them was challenge enough! hee hee Ed 300E On 17 December 2010 20:56, MG wrote: > Ed when you get a chance to scan those pictures of the 123 wagon please > send me a set. I would love to see them. Though I guess if they look real > cool I will regret it. > > Manfred > > > > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:46:38 -0500 > From: E M > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] RUF > > > [SNIP] > > > (Benz content)..I have an old original AMG catalog. Lots of neat stuff > back > when AMG was a stand alone tuner. They even had kits for the W123 wagon!! > I also liked the look of it. If I ever get a scanner, I'll post some pics > from it. Funny to look back now, at what seemed like King Kong power back > then!! hee hee Still, the Hammer was a hot piece of kit for it's day! 186 > mph in a 4 door W124, unheard of. > > Ed > 911SC > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] RUF
Manfred, I just dug out the old catalog. I can't see a print date on it, but it contains a few pages for the W201, so that would probably put it about '84 or so? The W123 section consists of 4 pages, with pictures of sedan, coupe, and wagon. They mention an improved brake package, and improved handling, as well as shock and spring sets. I was trying to find some specs on them, in hope you could match them up with some other current manufacture. The rims look very much like a rim Ronial offered, but I'm 90% the AMG rims were stamped as AMG rims on the backside. Body kits consist of front dam, sill extensions (quite subtle really, and a rear valence. They also offer their own differential, as well as their own modified 5 speed gearbox. Various other interior and trim items. They have a couple of nice wooden boxes that fit into the space between the front seats. I know someone was making one for themselves on the list a couple of years back. I'm thinking about making one for the W124. To be honest, you may have to wait a bit for me to get that scanner hooked up. If you like, you can drop me a P.O. Box address off list, and I'd be happy to photocopy what pictures I have here and mail them off to you. Not a lot of pictures, but a few to give you an idea of what they did with the old W123. I'll have to dig a bit deeper for for those old G&W catalogs. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 20:03, MG wrote: > Oh I wasn't talking about the engine bits. I was thinking more that it > might be styling bits that would make the car look just a bit different. I'm > not really into the go fast stuff as much as I used to be, though a nice > handling package that would reduce the roll probably wouldn't go amiss. > > I'll search for the ones you mentioned and see what I find. > > Manfred > > > > Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:41:20 -0500 > > From: E M > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] RUF > > > I'm not sure, as the AMG catalog I have was before AMG was absorbed by > Mercedes. As for the the body kits, there may be a few couple of places > out > there that have copied the old AMG bits. I think Ronial make or made a rim > very similar to what was offered during the period by AMG. As for engine > bits, I have no idea, but there are probably much better options today for > such projects anyway. For what your dollar would buy you in NOS AMG parts, > or used bits, you could probably do an engine swap and end up with just as > a > much, or more power, and replacement parts wouldn't be such a hassle > either. There is a guy on YouTube who has a W123 wagon, with a 560 engine > in it. Nicely done from the looks of it. I think I have the link > somewhere > if interested in me posting it? If you can get your hands on an older > catalog by a company called (from memory, G&W), they offered all kind of > kits for a variety of cars in Germany. Not sure if any company still > offers > bits for the W123, but at least an old catalog would give you some of the > names of companies that once did, so you could then take your search to > eBay > and such places. > > Original (pre mercedes) AMG parts are pretty much made of unobtainium now, > and priced accordingly. But things like old 560 engines are now plentiful, > and cheap, so these projects can happen, if you have the time to invest > yourself. If not, paying someone to do them can still run kind of high, > even if the parts can be had cheap. > > Ed > 300E > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Hi Fred,
I am looking to do the same thing ("I was looking for a welding class') one of
these days, but I just cant seem to find the time right now. One of these
years I will do it, though. I will be curious to see how you make out with
yours. Keep us posted, please.
Tom Schuch
SE Connecticut
1975 W115 300D
and a bunch of BMWs
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 17:27:25 -0500
From: Fred Moir
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Message-ID: <4d0e86cd.3050...@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Jaime K, ED, et al.
Jaime, please don't leave, you have experience and resources most of us
do not. many of us are old farts and, as any one will tell you,
curmudgeons are cranky and opinionated.
I for one will try to do better at listening as I have the selective
hearing of a long married man.
In case no one has not said thank you for all of your efforts, let me
say "Thank You".
The vocal minority are the ones causing most of the angst. Me especially.
As for maintenance and restoration, I going to take a bodywork class in
January. I was looking for a welding class and found a auto-body repair
class that includes it.
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
I like that. "As the saying goes, you can ask whatever you want for something, but it's only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it." And its Corollary: No matter what YOU think it is worth, it is really only worth what his wife is going to let him pay you for it. :) Tom Schuch SE Connecticut 1975 W115 300D and a bunch of BMWs Message: 10 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 16:02:23 -0500 From: E M To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If you wanted a project car, and you knew you had to justify the price to your wife, pretty much figure that's the story some guys going to have to pitch to his wife. So, it's not what the car is worth, but what amount do you think some guy's wife would tolerate for a hobby for hubby? What would your wife let you pay for it, if it was a stray looking for a new home? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:45, Max Dillon wrote: > OK thanks Kaleb, generally you've got the true price of a car nailed. > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:51 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > The market is so screwed up right now I just dont want to say. Might be > worth 1k, maybe more, maybe less. Look around the net and see what they > are selling for. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] RUF
Oh I wasn't talking about the engine bits. I was thinking more that it might be styling bits that would make the car look just a bit different. I'm not really into the go fast stuff as much as I used to be, though a nice handling package that would reduce the roll probably wouldn't go amiss. I'll search for the ones you mentioned and see what I find. Manfred Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:41:20 -0500 From: E M To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] RUF I'm not sure, as the AMG catalog I have was before AMG was absorbed by Mercedes. As for the the body kits, there may be a few couple of places out there that have copied the old AMG bits. I think Ronial make or made a rim very similar to what was offered during the period by AMG. As for engine bits, I have no idea, but there are probably much better options today for such projects anyway. For what your dollar would buy you in NOS AMG parts, or used bits, you could probably do an engine swap and end up with just as a much, or more power, and replacement parts wouldn't be such a hassle either. There is a guy on YouTube who has a W123 wagon, with a 560 engine in it. Nicely done from the looks of it. I think I have the link somewhere if interested in me posting it? If you can get your hands on an older catalog by a company called (from memory, G&W), they offered all kind of kits for a variety of cars in Germany. Not sure if any company still offers bits for the W123, but at least an old catalog would give you some of the names of companies that once did, so you could then take your search to eBay and such places. Original (pre mercedes) AMG parts are pretty much made of unobtainium now, and priced accordingly. But things like old 560 engines are now plentiful, and cheap, so these projects can happen, if you have the time to invest yourself. If not, paying someone to do them can still run kind of high, even if the parts can be had cheap. Ed 300E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: > Here are some pics: > > http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M wrote: > > I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one > can. Love to see some pics! > > Ed > 300E > > On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: > > I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end > restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I > know > but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post > attachments here? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M wrote: > > I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel > there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on > maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and > interiors, besides mechanical restorations. > > I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to > be better informed about the "right" way to do it on certain models, so I > can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. > > As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing > some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not > done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past > that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the > side in questions is missing. > > Ed > 300E > > On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: > > Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they > were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about > anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that > anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did > alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good > information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a > suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. > > I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech > (and any real serious projects of my own) work. > > I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my > first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I > grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. > I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you > may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design > these cars personally) > > I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and > most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no > interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do > make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my > fault for not finding a more suitable audience. > > I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I > had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my > passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new > 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally > intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and > stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars > that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily > service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy > doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and > usually own 4-5 cars at a time. > > I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things > straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You > might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. > > As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has > had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. > > Jaime > > > > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back > in > the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr > Doktor > was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that > Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know > something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more > than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their > designs? > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/a
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Jaime, I appreciate your prior contributions and I have always had a LOT of respect for you. After this post, my respect is restored, and I ask you to consider remaining. I was really surprised and shocked that you chose to flame the whole list after an extended absence. We all know that many "engineering" decisions are made by the marketing gurus and thrown over the wall (as a bomb) for the engineers to implement. Regardless of the source of the engineering decision, the success or failure is laid on engineering. Pointing out the design flaws and unnecessary features of a car designed before you were in college should not in any way be construed as a personal attack on you. You had nothing to do with it. You do have an important position to us. You are our only hope of getting the thoughts of those of us who regularly test the outer limits of product longevity (and DIY) back to the inner corridors and cubicles of the Daimler design and engineering folks. If my response to your flaming the list offended you, I apologize. I honestly thought you had already unsubscribed and would never see it anyway. In this world of video game war and VR design, it is remarkable to have a real staff engineer that works on the same old cars we do! Even if we don't comment on some of your posts, we want to hear what you have to say. Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know > something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: The list has been just fine until the last day or 2. As far as being asleep at the wheel, I have actually been on the road all weekend. I have not decided it I want to ban or moderate anybody yet. I am hoping it sorts itself out rather soon. As for people on this list slandering Richarde, I do not know what you are talking about The only statements of fact, true or otherwise, I recall seeing about Richarde were a claim that he posts with incredible frequency on facebook and something about Rusty paying him $2000 a month for mbz.org. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Mercedes 300d - $1200 (Aroostook county)
Fred Moir wrote: Not Mine etc. Northern Maine anyone? Curt doesn't have a 190D 5sp parts car anymore, does he? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Jaime, I agree with Fred. Don't leave. You have been a resource for much wisdom. I have been on these lists for 8 or 9 years myself. I was on the old DieselTech list too. I never made it to banned until the last few years. I just don't post much. More of a lurker. (but not a troll, :)) > I feel that there is no > interest in any real restoration or preservation work. A bodyman friend of mine is going to help me learn bodywork this summer on my coupe. Not hack work either, but restoration. > The posts I do > make are largely ignored. I have close to 900 posts saved that I need to catalog. Yours are among them. > I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I > had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my > passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new > 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally > intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and > stronger about this. Part of the maturation process, I'm sure. I feel the same way and stronger every year. I am 51 now. > I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things > straight before leaving. I am certain I am not the only one who would be sad to see you go Rick Knoble 1985 300CD, 1987 190DT and a Harley with a Harmon Sound System ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Microwaves and PD
Those microwaves were designed and built in Amana, thus the name. The Amana "radarrange" was i think the first microwave mass produced for home use. Mine was sent to the thrift store because it had no glass tray. I know I paid more for a new tray than I did for the oven, but it is much nicer with the tray. I used it some without the tray. I think the tray was 30 some bucks 6-8 years ago. Amana is one of many failed socialist experiments in the US. There is still an Amana Society run as a corporation, but members are allowed/encouraged to run private businesses. I think the society now functions more like a coop elevator company. They were known for the woolens, but now the mill is only a store and museum. They are still known mainly for family style restaurants with german-american food, Amana Beef, and wines. Amana Corp gutted its engineering staff about 30 years ago, and staggered on for maybe 10 years. It was sold (whirlpool, I think), and after a couple years the plant was closed. Now an amana appliance, like a maytag, is only a nameplate on an inferior product. I also bought a new Maytag washer and dryer the last year they were available. The washer has been flawless for over a decade. I had to replace the motor and a belt in the dryer, but that is pretty easy. Maytag washers were legendary for a reason. Not so any more. I was looking for a MW oven 25 years ago, and when I asked about reliability, the guy at the store said that none of the touchpad ovens last long, as the touchpads fail. He said he had one Litton left with a dial timer. He deemed that machine as the most reliable available. It still works great. Id does NOT play muzak, talk back or do anything but microwave food. It is wonderful. About 10 years ago I bought an ancient (65-72 maybe) Amana microwave for the cottage. It still works wonderfully tool Our Amana, with glass touchpad, is still in daily use here. It has no beeper. (Well, it does, but it's switchable, and I have it switched off!) I've had to repair it twice now, and yes the problem was in the touchpad, but it was only failing power supply capacitors. Easily replaced, and it was fully functional again. That thing is a heavy-duty appliance, it's quite heavy and engineered like the proverbial brick ***house. Made completely in the USA, I believe. I have another out in the garage, I bought it at the thrift shop for spare parts. (I've never even plugged it in.) I haven't needed any yet. The parts oven was missing the glass floor tray, and the one in our oven finally blew up on its own. (It wasn't on, we were in the living room and heard the bang. Weird.) Split right down the middle. I glued it back together with Shoe Goo, and we've been using it that way since. Just have to handle it carefully, the glue could let loose at any time after all. Dropping the tray was probably what sent the 'parts oven' to the boneyard. Our other microwave is a cheapie with a dial timer. Though Asian it just runs, and cooks, and goes 'ding' once when it's done. No frills to break or annoy. Never given me any trouble, though it hasn't been used a lot these last 15 years. These are the 123 diesels of the microwave world, IMHO. I dread the day when I'm forced to get a newer one. Just like our cars! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I too agree Marshall was a great resource, but even I was sometimes annoyed by the fact that some folks thought his word was gold. He made mistakes about his facts, everyone does. There were a few times when he would say something and I had the opposite experience. On 12/19/2010 2:08 PM, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
The list has been just fine until the last day or 2. As far as being asleep at the wheel, I have actually been on the road all weekend. I have not decided it I want to ban or moderate anybody yet. I am hoping it sorts itself out rather soon. As for people on this list slandering Richarde, I do not know what you are talking about On 12/19/2010 1:13 PM, Gary Hurst wrote: i don't feel a need for an apology. i just don't get why some people here can do nothing better than insult others i mean, richard hasn't been here in five years and you guys are still slandering him? why? a lot of people here are just a bunch of bullies. this list is far more vicious than banned. and our moderator, asleep at the wheel, will probably ban me for asking me why the endless viciousness is tolerated. many of you have been here long enough to remember when this list was something more like that. consider that it can be that again On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Fred Moir wrote: Gary. I suppose I deserved that. It is still a sincere apology. If it please you. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred On 12/19/2010 1:28 PM, Gary Hurst wrote: at least sarcasm raises you a step above your peers On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Fred Moir wrote: Gary. First. I would like to welcome you back into the fold. We have need of you expertise and experience. Second. I would like to apologize for my vitriolic attack on you the last time you were on the list. It was mean spirited and hateful. For this I ask your forgiveness. -- Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
So the guy says he is sorry and you take it as sarcasm? On 12/19/2010 12:28 PM, Gary Hurst wrote: at least sarcasm raises you a step above your peers On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Fred Moir wrote: Gary. First. I would like to welcome you back into the fold. We have need of you expertise and experience. Second. I would like to apologize for my vitriolic attack on you the last time you were on the list. It was mean spirited and hateful. For this I ask your forgiveness. -- Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks
well maybe he had it notarized because he was going to sell it to somebody else but they backed out for some reason. On 12/19/2010 11:30 AM, Mike Gildea wrote: Watch out --title has already been signed over. Question is why? seller not the same as the name on title? somebody illegally flipping cars? Be careful. - Original Message - From: "Bob Rentfro" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:21 AM Subject: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/2119667411.html Bob R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 88 300TE
no On 12/19/2010 10:13 AM, Bob Rentfro wrote: Self destructing wire harness or not?? Bob are ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the "right" way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/l
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
And he as since apologized. On 12/19/2010 8:55 AM, Allan Streib wrote: "Gerry Archer" writes: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the "critisizer in chief" and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Dr. Booth was seldom wrong, but those who follow his custom sometimes are, and then the arguments begin. I don't recall Marshall EVER getting in the middle of a flame war or personally attacking anyone. He might tell them they were wrong, in fairly direct terms, on the basis of the facts or his experience, but I don't recall any personal attacks or insults. Jaime, for whatever his knowledge is (he was a college student when I first joined the mbz.org lists, so I would guess he's still in his 20s) doesn't appear to have Dr. Booth's maturity or restraint. He called people on this list "ignorant" and "clueless", unprovoked. I reviewed that thread and he was not involved until that point. So from my perspective, he's the one who "started" whatever events unfolded. Allan -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Mercedes 300d - $1200 (Aroostook county)
Fred Moir writes: >mercedes 300d > > Date: 2010-12-16, 2:45PM > > near mint 91 benz 300d. very clean inside and out. transmission just > lost all forward gears except low. reverse works also. was working > perfect, just stopped at store and when i left no more 23 or4. like i > said before rest of car is mint and well maintained. diesel motor > starts easy and runs great.. asking 1200 or make an offer. may take > trades also. car has 264xxx miles, started today at 10 degrees, runs > perfect B2 failure? When was that problem finally resolved? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Fwd: 66 273V8 Formula S Barracuda - $850 (Harrison)
I always wanted one.
And 57 Benz.
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred
Original Message
Subject:66 273V8 Formula S Barracuda - $850 (Harrison)
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:04:42 -0800 (PST)
From: fred.s...@yahoo.com
To: fred.s...@verizon.net
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Please see below for more information.
Visit the posting at http://saginaw.craigslist.org/cto/2117087181.html
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66 273V8 Formula S Barracuda
Date: 2010-12-16, 11:59PM
Car is all there but the side glass. Been setting for years. Come and
take a look, get it out of my yard. Also have a 1957 Mercedes, sold car
no rust, make offer. It needs to go as well. Have more pictures if needed.
Sold as is where is and how is, first come first served..
email me or call. 989 539 5325 or 989 944 4926
* Location: Harrison
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[MBZ] Fwd: Mercedes 300d - $1200 (Aroostook county)
Not Mine etc.
Northern Maine anyone?
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred
Original Message
Subject:mercedes 300d - $1200 (aroostook county)
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:02:37 -0800 (PST)
From: fred.s...@yahoo.com
To: fred.s...@verizon.net
{email} has forwarded you this craigslist.org posting.
Please see below for more information.
Visit the posting at http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/2116291872.html to
contact the person who posted this.
mercedes 300d
Date: 2010-12-16, 2:45PM
near mint 91 benz 300d. very clean inside and out. transmission just
lost all forward gears except low. reverse works also. was working
perfect, just stopped at store and when i left no more 23 or4. like i
said before rest of car is mint and well maintained. diesel motor starts
easy and runs great.. asking 1200 or make an offer. may take trades
also. car has 264xxx miles, started today at 10 degrees, runs perfect
* Location: aroostook county
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other
commercial interests
Original URL: http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/2116291872.html
/this craigslist posting was forwarded to you by someone using our
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___
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Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Dimitri Seretakis writes: > Yes, that was a link to shutterfly. I did a quarter panel repair of > the same nature on the same car. I'm surprised you remember. I don't think anyone who saw those photographs would forget the craftsmanship evident. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Yes, that was a link to shutterfly. I did a quarter panel repair of the same nature on the same car. I'm surprised you remember. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Dimitri Seretakis wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone Yes, but they have to wait for Kaleb to approve them and archive them on Okibenz. Didn't you post pics of a restoration where you made a new rear corner for a door? Or was that a link to a photobucket page? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
There was a recent article in out local paper here. A former PM of ours, drove an old Mercedes 300SL. His son, while in school, purchased an old 300 SEL, which his friends called, the Staff car. His Dad, the PM said it was a silly purchase, as the running costs were very high, especially for a Uni student. Many years later, when he inherited his Dad's old SL, he said the SEL was good training, for what it was going to cost to keep up and run a vintage SL. He keeps the car at a local MB dealer, after a full restoration and ongoing proper servicing. It comes out on special occasions. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:16, Peter Frederick wrote: > Not that they aren't a wonderful car to drive, and a great ride all round, > it's just that they really aren't an economic means of transportation. Mine > does much better in the snow and ice than my 87 300D, but I still hate to > drive it at 14 mpg on premium. > > Peter > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT: Kia Sedona
I am in the market for a vehicle with 3 row (7 passenger) seating. There is a '05 Kia Sedona for sale locally. Any experiences? I believe these sold with a 10/100K warranty, anyone know if that transfers to subsequent owners? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
There are a couple of community colleges around here that offer auto body classes too. My personal experiences with auto body repairs, even the small ones that I started off feeling quit confident with, always ended in frustration I have a lot of admiration for people who have the skill to bring back cars to how they left the line, or often, to a higher standard. My skills are limited to a stone chip touch up kit, and even that often results in some pretty colourful language from me. I have a friend who is great with a TIG welder. As he has said, not always so humbly, he can weld to the two sharp edges of a couple of razor blades together, and you can hardly see the seam. He's exaggerating, but not by a whole lot! He's my hero. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:27, Fred Moir wrote: > Jaime K, ED, et al. > Jaime, please don't leave, you have experience and resources most of us do > not. many of us are old farts and, as any one will tell you, curmudgeons are > cranky and opinionated. > I for one will try to do better at listening as I have the selective > hearing of a long married man. > In case no one has not said thank you for all of your efforts, let me say > "Thank You". > The vocal minority are the ones causing most of the angst. Me especially. > As for maintenance and restoration, I going to take a bodywork class in > January. I was looking for a welding class and found a auto-body repair > class that includes it. > > Fred Moir > Lynn MA > Diesel preferred > > > > On 12/19/2010 3:30 PM, E M wrote: > >> I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel >> there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on >> maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and >> interiors, besides mechanical restorations. >> >> I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like >> to >> be better informed about the "right" way to do it on certain models, so I >> can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. >> >> As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing >> some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not >> done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past >> that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the >> side in questions is missing. >> >> Ed >> 300E >> >> On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: >> >> >> >>> Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they >>> were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about >>> anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that >>> anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did >>> alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good >>> information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a >>> suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. >>> >>> I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech >>> (and any real serious projects of my own) work. >>> >>> I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my >>> first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I >>> grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. >>> I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you >>> may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design >>> these cars personally) >>> >>> I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and >>> most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no >>> interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do >>> make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my >>> fault for not finding a more suitable audience. >>> >>> I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I >>> had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my >>> passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new >>> 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally >>> intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and >>> stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars >>> that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily >>> service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy >>> doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and >>> usually own 4-5 cars at a time. >>> >>> I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things >>> straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You >>> might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. >>> >>> As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has >>> had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. >>> >>> Jaime >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: >>> >>> Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: > I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end > restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know > but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post > attachments here? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M wrote: > > I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel > there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on > maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and > interiors, besides mechanical restorations. > > I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to > be better informed about the "right" way to do it on certain models, so I > can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. > > As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing > some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not > done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past > that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the > side in questions is missing. > > Ed > 300E > > On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: > > Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they > were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about > anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that > anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did > alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good > information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a > suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. > > I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech > (and any real serious projects of my own) work. > > I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my > first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I > grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. > I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you > may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design > these cars personally) > > I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and > most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no > interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do > make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my > fault for not finding a more suitable audience. > > I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I > had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my > passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new > 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally > intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and > stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars > that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily > service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy > doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and > usually own 4-5 cars at a time. > > I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things > straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You > might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. > > As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has > had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. > > Jaime > > > > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back > in > the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr > Doktor > was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that > Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know > something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more > than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their > designs? > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change d
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Jaime K, ED, et al. Jaime, please don't leave, you have experience and resources most of us do not. many of us are old farts and, as any one will tell you, curmudgeons are cranky and opinionated. I for one will try to do better at listening as I have the selective hearing of a long married man. In case no one has not said thank you for all of your efforts, let me say "Thank You". The vocal minority are the ones causing most of the angst. Me especially. As for maintenance and restoration, I going to take a bodywork class in January. I was looking for a welding class and found a auto-body repair class that includes it. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred On 12/19/2010 3:30 PM, E M wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the "right" way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Dimitri Seretakis wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone Yes, but they have to wait for Kaleb to approve them and archive them on Okibenz. Didn't you post pics of a restoration where you made a new rear corner for a door? Or was that a link to a photobucket page? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the "right" way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
Not that they aren't a wonderful car to drive, and a great ride all round, it's just that they really aren't an economic means of transportation. Mine does much better in the snow and ice than my 87 300D, but I still hate to drive it at 14 mpg on premium. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks
There have been differences over the years, but I think once they get to a certain age, importing becomes easier, or that's how it is this way. Various things are in metric here, and I was told once that the W140 sedan was built on the Euro platform for Canada, and differs from the one built for the US market. What those differences are, or if that was true, I have no way of knowing. I know we've had different minimum crash worthiness standards at times, so perhaps that was reflected in hidden bumper and bumper mount designs. Again, I'm not sure on all the various details. Over the years, there were a few cars we managed to get here, such as the Porsche 930, which as far as I know, had a period when it was not allowed into the US? I think that was emission based. I don't remember Ferraris every having those funny motorized seatbelts, but I've seen a few US Testarossa's with them. I know a LOT of Mercedes are sold here, so I would imagine lots of them on the used market too. Some are really great, some as they age are dogs, like any used item. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 16:39, Allan Streib wrote: > E M writes: > > > I'm not sure what your import laws are, or emission requirements are, > > but there have been some recent changes up here in mid Canada. '88 > > now require emission testing here, even though they are over 20 yrs > > old. That is sending a lot of cars of that vintage and newer to the > > crusher, as it doesn't make financial sense to do the work often > > required to get them to pass. There may be some good deals out there. > > Might be worth watching ON CL listings for fun. > > Canada and the US DOT pretty much had the same requirements over the years > did they not? I purchased a Dodge Caravan in 2002 that was made for > Canada, unsold, reimported and sold as a used car here. That's right, a > used car with 4 miles on the odometer. > > Allan > -- > 1983 300D > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks
E M writes: > I'm not sure what your import laws are, or emission requirements are, > but there have been some recent changes up here in mid Canada. '88 > now require emission testing here, even though they are over 20 yrs > old. That is sending a lot of cars of that vintage and newer to the > crusher, as it doesn't make financial sense to do the work often > required to get them to pass. There may be some good deals out there. > Might be worth watching ON CL listings for fun. Canada and the US DOT pretty much had the same requirements over the years did they not? I purchased a Dodge Caravan in 2002 that was made for Canada, unsold, reimported and sold as a used car here. That's right, a used car with 4 miles on the odometer. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
Bingo - what price does SWMBO think is a good price? That is the question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of E M Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 4:02 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? If you wanted a project car, and you knew you had to justify the price to your wife, pretty much figure that's the story some guys going to have to pitch to his wife. So, it's not what the car is worth, but what amount do you think some guy's wife would tolerate for a hobby for hubby? What would your wife let you pay for it, if it was a stray looking for a new home? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:45, Max Dillon wrote: > OK thanks Kaleb, generally you've got the true price of a car nailed. > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:51 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > The market is so screwed up right now I just dont want to say. Might be > worth 1k, maybe more, maybe less. Look around the net and see what they > are selling for. > > Max Dillon wrote: > > Also, daughter has already claimed the '95; with my luck, I add another > much > > better looking car, and she'll claim both! > > > > So no one has an opinion on the market for a solid but cosmetically > > challenged '72 280SEL? > > > > -Max > > > > -Original Message- > > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto: > mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > > On Behalf Of Rich Thomas > > Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 1:53 PM > > To: Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > > > Max, that is your DAD's car! If you don't adopt it you will forever be > > kicking yourself. And your daughter is only a few years away from > > driving > > > > --R > > > > On 12/18/2010 1:40 PM, Max Dillon wrote: > > > >> My father is offering a 'family price' for his '72 280SEL. It is very > >> straight and rust free, and the interior is fresh (transplant from a > >> different car), but has been poorly painted in a two-tone scheme which > is > >> now flaking off. Original color looks like ivory, some PO painted the > >> > > lower > > > >> half a caramel color. So, to make the car really nice, it will need to > be > >> sanded and painted. > >> > >> > >> > >> It has an automatic transmission, fuel injected V8, after-market AC, and > >> he's put a lot of time and $$ into fixing it up and is now bored with > it. > >> He bought it in AZ a few years ago, so it is supposedly rust free, but I > >> have not yet seen the car. > >> > >> > >> > >> I need a third MB like I need a hole in my head, but I really like the > >> > > style > > > >> of this car. SWMBO also thinks it is a beauty, but she is also leery of > >> taking on another "project". I'm thinking that an $80 roller-paint job > >> would be in order, nice little summer project to keep me off the > streets. > >> > >> > >> > >> Very respectfully, > >> /s/ > >> Max Dillon > >> Charleston SC > >> '87 300TD 332k miles > >> > >> '95 E300 277k miles > >> > >> '73 Balboa 20 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archiv
Re: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks
I'm not sure what your import laws are, or emission requirements are, but there have been some recent changes up here in mid Canada. '88 now require emission testing here, even though they are over 20 yrs old. That is sending a lot of cars of that vintage and newer to the crusher, as it doesn't make financial sense to do the work often required to get them to pass. There may be some good deals out there. Might be worth watching ON CL listings for fun. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:54, Max Dillon wrote: > Only if it doesn't have serious problems, which I will predict that it does > based on the price, gutted seat controls for the driver and the missing > center cap on LF wheel. > > Locally there was a '95 wagon on CL a month ago that looked superb for > $3500, THAT is the kind of deal that tempts me... > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Bob Rentfro > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:21 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks > > http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/2119667411.html > > Bob R > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
If you wanted a project car, and you knew you had to justify the price to your wife, pretty much figure that's the story some guys going to have to pitch to his wife. So, it's not what the car is worth, but what amount do you think some guy's wife would tolerate for a hobby for hubby? What would your wife let you pay for it, if it was a stray looking for a new home? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:45, Max Dillon wrote: > OK thanks Kaleb, generally you've got the true price of a car nailed. > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:51 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > The market is so screwed up right now I just dont want to say. Might be > worth 1k, maybe more, maybe less. Look around the net and see what they > are selling for. > > Max Dillon wrote: > > Also, daughter has already claimed the '95; with my luck, I add another > much > > better looking car, and she'll claim both! > > > > So no one has an opinion on the market for a solid but cosmetically > > challenged '72 280SEL? > > > > -Max > > > > -Original Message- > > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto: > mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > > On Behalf Of Rich Thomas > > Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 1:53 PM > > To: Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > > > Max, that is your DAD's car! If you don't adopt it you will forever be > > kicking yourself. And your daughter is only a few years away from > > driving > > > > --R > > > > On 12/18/2010 1:40 PM, Max Dillon wrote: > > > >> My father is offering a 'family price' for his '72 280SEL. It is very > >> straight and rust free, and the interior is fresh (transplant from a > >> different car), but has been poorly painted in a two-tone scheme which > is > >> now flaking off. Original color looks like ivory, some PO painted the > >> > > lower > > > >> half a caramel color. So, to make the car really nice, it will need to > be > >> sanded and painted. > >> > >> > >> > >> It has an automatic transmission, fuel injected V8, after-market AC, and > >> he's put a lot of time and $$ into fixing it up and is now bored with > it. > >> He bought it in AZ a few years ago, so it is supposedly rust free, but I > >> have not yet seen the car. > >> > >> > >> > >> I need a third MB like I need a hole in my head, but I really like the > >> > > style > > > >> of this car. SWMBO also thinks it is a beauty, but she is also leery of > >> taking on another "project". I'm thinking that an $80 roller-paint job > >> would be in order, nice little summer project to keep me off the > streets. > >> > >> > >> > >> Very respectfully, > >> /s/ > >> Max Dillon > >> Charleston SC > >> '87 300TD 332k miles > >> > >> '95 E300 277k miles > >> > >> '73 Balboa 20 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Microwaves and PD
As the saying goes, you can ask whatever you want for something, but it's only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. 300E On 19 December 2010 14:52, Jim Cathey wrote: > OT - I know a guy in Spokane - he says he is busy busy - he does >> survey work and says investors are buying property like crazy. Are >> you seeing that type of stuff in your area also? >> > > Not so that I would notice. But then, why would I? > There's a fair amount of overpriced real estate on > the market right now. There's a parcel two lots down, > half the size of ours and no house on it, nor any > infrastructure, and they're asking _more_ for that > (by at least 50%) than I paid in '93 for our home. > Still for sale, I see! :-) > > -- Jim > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks
Only if it doesn't have serious problems, which I will predict that it does based on the price, gutted seat controls for the driver and the missing center cap on LF wheel. Locally there was a '95 wagon on CL a month ago that looked superb for $3500, THAT is the kind of deal that tempts me... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Bob Rentfro Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:21 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/2119667411.html Bob R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
Thanks Peter - good info re: mileage - hadn't considered that aspect. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:16 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? All depends on the local market. It is no longer likely you will find a mechanic who can work on one unless they specialize in antiques, they get horrible milage (12-16, usually more to the low end), parts are getting scarce, too. Wonderful cars in good shape, but I think mine is sucumbing to rust disease at last. Sad, but I really can't use a car that gets 12 mpg. Fully restored they go for about $12000 if you can find a buyer, but sedans are never a collector's item. Mine is available if anyone wants one, I'm not driving it and hate to junk it, but need to get some cars out of the drive. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth?
OK thanks Kaleb, generally you've got the true price of a car nailed. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? The market is so screwed up right now I just dont want to say. Might be worth 1k, maybe more, maybe less. Look around the net and see what they are selling for. Max Dillon wrote: > Also, daughter has already claimed the '95; with my luck, I add another much > better looking car, and she'll claim both! > > So no one has an opinion on the market for a solid but cosmetically > challenged '72 280SEL? > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Rich Thomas > Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 1:53 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a '72 280SEL 4.5 worth? > > Max, that is your DAD's car! If you don't adopt it you will forever be > kicking yourself. And your daughter is only a few years away from > driving > > --R > > On 12/18/2010 1:40 PM, Max Dillon wrote: > >> My father is offering a 'family price' for his '72 280SEL. It is very >> straight and rust free, and the interior is fresh (transplant from a >> different car), but has been poorly painted in a two-tone scheme which is >> now flaking off. Original color looks like ivory, some PO painted the >> > lower > >> half a caramel color. So, to make the car really nice, it will need to be >> sanded and painted. >> >> >> >> It has an automatic transmission, fuel injected V8, after-market AC, and >> he's put a lot of time and $$ into fixing it up and is now bored with it. >> He bought it in AZ a few years ago, so it is supposedly rust free, but I >> have not yet seen the car. >> >> >> >> I need a third MB like I need a hole in my head, but I really like the >> > style > >> of this car. SWMBO also thinks it is a beauty, but she is also leery of >> taking on another "project". I'm thinking that an $80 roller-paint job >> would be in order, nice little summer project to keep me off the streets. >> >> >> >> Very respectfully, >> /s/ >> Max Dillon >> Charleston SC >> '87 300TD 332k miles >> >> '95 E300 277k miles >> >> '73 Balboa 20 >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140)
I bought a GM minivan while waiting for a replacement hose for the old W124. As my English friends would say, "it works exactly as it says on the side of the tin." Everything up here takes a beating with the salt too!! I keep meaning to take out some shares in RustcheckI use enough of the stuff. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 14:46, Mountain Man wrote: > Ed wrote: > > All cars have their faults and weaknesses. I think the secret is to find > a > > car that really gives you pleasure to drive, and look at. > > Hmmm, that is the reason I owned a '76 Dasher wagon, a '75 Nova, an > '84 diesel chevyvan - all of which rusted in the midwest, but were > surviving well while they lived in CSpgs. And my first W123 is, RIP, > rusted also. > No, I don't own a car for beauty or pleasure - a car is purely > utilitarian. Gotta get from point A to point B reliably and cost > within the amount of cash on hand. Simple choices are made within > those parameters, and I finally ended at the W123 - hooray. With a > foray in to W116 diesel - wonderful car still alive in Hotlanta. > mao > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
LOT of money back in '72!
Ed
300E
On 19 December 2010 13:54, WILTON wrote:
> Mine in '72 was $180.
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "E M"
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 12:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
>
>
> My folks still have the one I bought them about 25 years ago too. Never
>> failed. I've had it checked a few times to make sure everything was in
>> proper working order. Back then, I think I paid close to $1000 for it.
>> Today, they can be had for $80, but are pretty much a toss away item, like
>> so much else.
>>
>> Ed
>> 300E
>>
>> On 19 December 2010 11:07, WILTON wrote:
>>
>> 'Best microwave oven I've had ('think it was Toshiba, bought in Japan in
>>> 1972) simple rotary switch and timer combined; turned it a bit clockwise,
>>> and it was ON; 'could keep turning it to the time desired. Performed
>>> very
>>> well for 25 years; still working well when I rebuilt kitchen, stupidly
>>> installed new one and gave the old one to Salvation Army.
>>>
>>> Wilton
>>>
>>> - Original Message - From: "Jim Cathey"
>>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:28 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
>>>
>>>
>>> While previously geographically confined primarily to Redmond, WA, and
>>> the
>>>
SanJose, CA area, severe [PD] epidemics are now places like Stuttgart,
> and
> Munich in Germany, the entire country of Japan, ...
>
>
No kidding! They got a new microwave oven at work. The wretched
thing beeps out some kind of lame tune when it's done. (Those
sonalert beepers are bad enough all by their lonesome, now let's
hear 'music' on them...) Guys have wasted irreplaceable minutes
of their life navigating the menu buttons to try to turn it off,
and sometimes they succeed, but then the oven goes and forgets
what it's been told and it starts all over.
It's an _oven_! The world is full of MP3 players, home theater
audio systems, etc., and we need an _oven_ that peeps like a diseased
chick when your food is ready? Puts me off any thought of eating,
and more toward pitching the thing, food and all, through the
nearest window.
-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: modern automotive "design" (was W140)
I would prefer a poorly designed cigarette lighter to poorly designed valve guides and such too, but as I said, if you love a car, you take it as a package for what it is. I love my old 911 and wouldn't part with it for the world, (except for when Wilton is exercising it for me over the winter), but it has some serious design faults. Funky chain tensioner arms, and tensioners, air boxes that like to go bang to the tune of $1500-2000, rubber mounted clutch disks that would dry and require replacement. All serious stuff, but I love the car, so I keep an eye on stuff, service it well, and occasionally, have to exercise my chequebook. hee hee Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 13:54, Jim Cathey wrote: > All cars have their faults and weaknesses. >> > > They do. But I think I would prefer such weak points > as cruise control amps, window switches, and door checks, > to engine wiring harnesses, integrated chassis computers, > and evaporators. Go, 123's! > > For the record, the Frankenheap's wiring harness is > 38 years old and still in good shape. No sign of degradation. > > -- Jim > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the "right" way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: > Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they > were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about > anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that > anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did > alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good > information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a > suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. > > I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech > (and any real serious projects of my own) work. > > I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my > first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I > grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. > I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you > may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design > these cars personally) > > I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and > most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no > interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do > make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my > fault for not finding a more suitable audience. > > I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I > had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my > passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new > 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally > intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and > stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars > that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily > service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy > doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and > usually own 4-5 cars at a time. > > I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things > straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You > might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. > > As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has > had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. > > Jaime > > > > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > > Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back > in > > the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr > Doktor > > was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that > > Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know > > something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more > > than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their > > designs? > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in > the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor > was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that > Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know > something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more > than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their > designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: modern automotive "design" (was W140)
Jim wrote: > They salt here now, it's doing vicious things to the Frankenheap. > Wires are still good, though. Yes - wires remain, and with sheath, which is nice... after the W140 or whatever discussions about failing insulation... The primary body work getting ugly is a shame for the western USA - I'm sad to hear of your local use of salt. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
hursty wrote: > i ask no one to fall in step with my ideas, especially those that are > bizarre and psychotic Except... I am even more bizarre and psychotic. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: modern automotive "design" (was W140)
For the record, the Frankenheap's wiring harness is 38 years old and still in good shape. No sign of degradation. You don't live in the salt midwest. They salt here now, it's doing vicious things to the Frankenheap. Wires are still good, though. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Microwaves and PD
OT - I know a guy in Spokane - he says he is busy busy - he does survey work and says investors are buying property like crazy. Are you seeing that type of stuff in your area also? Not so that I would notice. But then, why would I? There's a fair amount of overpriced real estate on the market right now. There's a parcel two lots down, half the size of ours and no house on it, nor any infrastructure, and they're asking _more_ for that (by at least 50%) than I paid in '93 for our home. Still for sale, I see! :-) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140)
Ed wrote: > All cars have their faults and weaknesses. I think the secret is to find a > car that really gives you pleasure to drive, and look at. Hmmm, that is the reason I owned a '76 Dasher wagon, a '75 Nova, an '84 diesel chevyvan - all of which rusted in the midwest, but were surviving well while they lived in CSpgs. And my first W123 is, RIP, rusted also. No, I don't own a car for beauty or pleasure - a car is purely utilitarian. Gotta get from point A to point B reliably and cost within the amount of cash on hand. Simple choices are made within those parameters, and I finally ended at the W123 - hooray. With a foray in to W116 diesel - wonderful car still alive in Hotlanta. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: modern automotive "design" (was W140)
Jim wrote: > For the record, the Frankenheap's wiring harness is > 38 years old and still in good shape. No sign of degradation. You don't live in the salt midwest. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
Ed wrote: > My folks still have the one I bought them about 25 years ago too. I have a GE from about that vintage... sitting in the basement, not being used. We don't need not steenking microwave. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
> Jaime rote: > > Wow, the ignorance on this list has reached an all time high. > > You folks really haven't a clue about how automotive development > works, and why an S class is designed the way they are. Not a clue. Yo - Jaime. Educate us a bit - mind you, not an upper level course - just a whet the appetite information bit, if you will. I am sure you see much stuff we won't see for another 25 years as we are mercedes bottom feeders. I am happy to drive my W123 which is 26 years old, but that means my 220 will be purchased in 2030 or there abouts and any clue as to development may be useful for me to look forward. By then I might be capable of cell phone and gps and cd player. Currently I am happy with radio and heater and die hard diesel engine. Give us a clue, please - don't take the criticism as ignorance. We are (I am) bottom feeders, whereas you drive these development vehicles daily. Speak to us. Thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Microwaves and PD
Jim wrote: > These are the 123 diesels of the microwave world, IMHO. > I dread the day when I'm forced to get a newer one. > > Just like our cars! My W123 doesn't go 'ding.' OT - I know a guy in Spokane - he says he is busy busy - he does survey work and says investors are buying property like crazy. Are you seeing that type of stuff in your area also? Here in ChiTownArea it is still dead as far as site design work - I'm thinking we should touch base with our surveyor subs to see if they are seeing the same rise in work. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
i don't feel a need for an apology. i just don't get why some people here can do nothing better than insult others i mean, richard hasn't been here in five years and you guys are still slandering him? why? a lot of people here are just a bunch of bullies. this list is far more vicious than banned. and our moderator, asleep at the wheel, will probably ban me for asking me why the endless viciousness is tolerated. many of you have been here long enough to remember when this list was something more like that. consider that it can be that again On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Fred Moir wrote: > Gary. > I suppose I deserved that. > It is still a sincere apology. If it please you. > > > Fred Moir > Lynn MA > Diesel preferred > > > On 12/19/2010 1:28 PM, Gary Hurst wrote: > >> at least sarcasm raises you a step above your peers >> >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Fred Moir >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Gary. >>> First. >>> I would like to welcome you back into the fold. >>> We have need of you expertise and experience. >>> Second. >>> I would like to apologize for my vitriolic attack on you the last time >>> you >>> were on the list. >>> It was mean spirited and hateful. For this I ask your forgiveness. >>> >>> -- >>> Fred Moir >>> Lynn MA >>> Diesel preferred >>> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
Gary. I suppose I deserved that. It is still a sincere apology. If it please you. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred On 12/19/2010 1:28 PM, Gary Hurst wrote: at least sarcasm raises you a step above your peers On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Fred Moir wrote: Gary. First. I would like to welcome you back into the fold. We have need of you expertise and experience. Second. I would like to apologize for my vitriolic attack on you the last time you were on the list. It was mean spirited and hateful. For this I ask your forgiveness. -- Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
We've got an 85 vintage GE dual-wave nuclear reactor, from the pre turntable and glitz days. Had to run the main control board through board rework and conformal coat back around 2000ish after a very steemy cup of coffee, had to replace the main transformer after it arced over and carbon tracked(3 years back? Bit foggy), and sometime between those two replace the foam weatherstripping that directs air to the stirrer antenna, but other than that it's still alive and cooking. Wouldn't trade it for the world. And yes, it does pass it's radiation leakage testing. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 1:28 PM, "Fmiser" wrote: >> Jim Cathey wrote: > >> It's an _oven_! The world is full of MP3 players, home theater >> audio systems, etc., and we need an _oven_ that peeps like a >> diseased chick when your food is ready? > > Go Jim! > > Maybe if you complain loud enough someone who can do something > about it will hear. > > Then again - probably not > > -- Philip > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
Mine in '72 was $180.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "E M"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
My folks still have the one I bought them about 25 years ago too. Never
failed. I've had it checked a few times to make sure everything was in
proper working order. Back then, I think I paid close to $1000 for it.
Today, they can be had for $80, but are pretty much a toss away item, like
so much else.
Ed
300E
On 19 December 2010 11:07, WILTON wrote:
'Best microwave oven I've had ('think it was Toshiba, bought in Japan in
1972) simple rotary switch and timer combined; turned it a bit clockwise,
and it was ON; 'could keep turning it to the time desired. Performed
very
well for 25 years; still working well when I rebuilt kitchen, stupidly
installed new one and gave the old one to Salvation Army.
Wilton
- Original Message - From: "Jim Cathey"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
While previously geographically confined primarily to Redmond, WA, and
the
SanJose, CA area, severe [PD] epidemics are now places like Stuttgart,
and
Munich in Germany, the entire country of Japan, ...
No kidding! They got a new microwave oven at work. The wretched
thing beeps out some kind of lame tune when it's done. (Those
sonalert beepers are bad enough all by their lonesome, now let's
hear 'music' on them...) Guys have wasted irreplaceable minutes
of their life navigating the menu buttons to try to turn it off,
and sometimes they succeed, but then the oven goes and forgets
what it's been told and it starts all over.
It's an _oven_! The world is full of MP3 players, home theater
audio systems, etc., and we need an _oven_ that peeps like a diseased
chick when your food is ready? Puts me off any thought of eating,
and more toward pitching the thing, food and all, through the
nearest window.
-- Jim
___
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___
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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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___
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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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___
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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: modern automotive "design" (was W140)
All cars have their faults and weaknesses. They do. But I think I would prefer such weak points as cruise control amps, window switches, and door checks, to engine wiring harnesses, integrated chassis computers, and evaporators. Go, 123's! For the record, the Frankenheap's wiring harness is 38 years old and still in good shape. No sign of degradation. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Apologies
at least sarcasm raises you a step above your peers On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Fred Moir wrote: > Gary. > First. > I would like to welcome you back into the fold. > We have need of you expertise and experience. > Second. > I would like to apologize for my vitriolic attack on you the last time you > were on the list. > It was mean spirited and hateful. For this I ask your forgiveness. > > -- > Fred Moir > Lynn MA > Diesel preferred > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
> Jim Cathey wrote: > It's an _oven_! The world is full of MP3 players, home theater > audio systems, etc., and we need an _oven_ that peeps like a > diseased chick when your food is ready? Go Jim! Maybe if you complain loud enough someone who can do something about it will hear. Then again - probably not -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140)
All cars have their faults and weaknesses. I think the secret is to find a car that really gives you pleasure to drive, and look at. Then, servicing it, and replacing the funky bits as needed, even if you have to do it more than once, won't be quite so painful. It's good to be aware of a models weaknesses, as it will factor in to whether it will be a car you can realistically afford to won and operate. But if I really loved a car, and was aware of some weaknesses, and could afford to stay on top of them, I personally wouldn't allow that to put me off buying and enjoying the car. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 13:04, John Freer wrote: > Not sure how you can equate the W140 chassis with the rod bender > engine when it was introduced in the W126. People also equate the > evaporator and wiring harness failures to the W140 but I suspect there > are just a few W124 owners who have had some bad experiences in these > areas as well. > John > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 7:09 AM, Peter Frederick > wrote: > > The problems with all modern automobiles is the replacement of analog > > mechanical controls with digital electronic controls, and subsequent > gross > > cheapening of mechanical design. Programmer's disease indeed. > > > > I suppose the supposition is that a digital computer will "compensate" > for > > plastic manifolds that fail in 10 years or so, the inability of a person > to > > properly regulate a mechanical throttle for "traction control" (very > > expensive, eh, and reliable? Ask Toyota) that requires an electronic > > throttle positioning device (unlike the spring loaded mechanical one on > the > > W126), self tapping screws used to hold covers on the engine that require > > the poor mechanic to helicoil the holes and find bolts to fit when the > front > > cover has to come off, and so forth. All the engineering is going into > > computer crap with mechanical parts just carried along with no changes > since > > one has to pay so much for the electronics nothing is left to hire > > mechanical engineers (and they aren't allowed to be engineers if they > "get > > their hands dirty" working on mechanical things, eh). Sadly for the > > drivers, computer traction control won't do diddly when the undersized > ball > > joint from a design that weighed 1000 lbs less fails. It's all tinsel, > > plastic, and glitz to add profit margin, with the actual mechanical parts > > just throw together willy-nilly. > > > > All those electronic gadgets are EXPENSIVE, and to keep the price of the > > automobile reasonable, short cuts get taken in the materials, design, and > > engineering. > > > > The thing that really set me against the W140 was the combination of the > > "rodbender" engine and drastically under-designed front suspension. MB > has > > been making high performance large sedans for about 80 years, and if they > > can miss badly on the design of the front suspension of a car expected to > be > > driven at 140 mph hour after hour and the engine can ear itself with no > > notice in normal use, what ELSE is gonna go "sprong" at a really bad > time? > > Brakes? Rear axle? Computer short out and floor the accelerator at a > > red light? > > > > I personally will pass -- all those electronics will fail in use, and > > replacement is more than the car is worth. Mechanical stuff can be > fixed, > > if not cheaply, but a dead brain box is just junk. > > > > If this is the new "automotive design excellence", we are all going to > end > > up on public transit because we can't afford cars.. > > > > Peter > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140)
John Freer wrote: > People also equate the evaporator and wiring harness failures to the W140 but I suspect there are just a few W124 owners who have had some bad experiences in these areas as well. John But weren't the W124 evaporators pretty much straightened out by 1992? Seems like that would have taught them how to do the W140 evaps right by the time the W140 hit these shores. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] modern automotive "design" (was W140)
Not sure how you can equate the W140 chassis with the rod bender engine when it was introduced in the W126. People also equate the evaporator and wiring harness failures to the W140 but I suspect there are just a few W124 owners who have had some bad experiences in these areas as well. John On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 7:09 AM, Peter Frederick wrote: > The problems with all modern automobiles is the replacement of analog > mechanical controls with digital electronic controls, and subsequent gross > cheapening of mechanical design. Programmer's disease indeed. > > I suppose the supposition is that a digital computer will "compensate" for > plastic manifolds that fail in 10 years or so, the inability of a person to > properly regulate a mechanical throttle for "traction control" (very > expensive, eh, and reliable? Ask Toyota) that requires an electronic > throttle positioning device (unlike the spring loaded mechanical one on the > W126), self tapping screws used to hold covers on the engine that require > the poor mechanic to helicoil the holes and find bolts to fit when the front > cover has to come off, and so forth. All the engineering is going into > computer crap with mechanical parts just carried along with no changes since > one has to pay so much for the electronics nothing is left to hire > mechanical engineers (and they aren't allowed to be engineers if they "get > their hands dirty" working on mechanical things, eh). Sadly for the > drivers, computer traction control won't do diddly when the undersized ball > joint from a design that weighed 1000 lbs less fails. It's all tinsel, > plastic, and glitz to add profit margin, with the actual mechanical parts > just throw together willy-nilly. > > All those electronic gadgets are EXPENSIVE, and to keep the price of the > automobile reasonable, short cuts get taken in the materials, design, and > engineering. > > The thing that really set me against the W140 was the combination of the > "rodbender" engine and drastically under-designed front suspension. MB has > been making high performance large sedans for about 80 years, and if they > can miss badly on the design of the front suspension of a car expected to be > driven at 140 mph hour after hour and the engine can ear itself with no > notice in normal use, what ELSE is gonna go "sprong" at a really bad time? > Brakes? Rear axle? Computer short out and floor the accelerator at a > red light? > > I personally will pass -- all those electronics will fail in use, and > replacement is more than the car is worth. Mechanical stuff can be fixed, > if not cheaply, but a dead brain box is just junk. > > If this is the new "automotive design excellence", we are all going to end > up on public transit because we can't afford cars.. > > Peter > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Apologies
Gary. First. I would like to welcome you back into the fold. We have need of you expertise and experience. Second. I would like to apologize for my vitriolic attack on you the last time you were on the list. It was mean spirited and hateful. For this I ask your forgiveness. -- Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Microwaves and PD WAS:more 140 ignorance
yeah, goldstar is LG. back in the 80s, goldstar was considered the bottom of the heap. amazing how far korean product has come On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Allan Streib wrote: > Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes: > > > I was looking for a MW oven 25 years ago, and when I asked about > > reliability, the guy at the store said that none of the touchpad ovens > > last long, as the touchpads fail. He said he had one Litton left with > > a dial timer. He deemed that machine as the most reliable available. > > It still works great. Id does NOT play muzak, talk back or do > > anything but microwave food. It is wonderful. > > I have a Goldstar (company is now known as LG I believe) microwave I > bought in 1990 and it still works great. It is a touchpad control, with > a turntable. > > Allan > -- > 1983 300D > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
My folks still have the one I bought them about 25 years ago too. Never
failed. I've had it checked a few times to make sure everything was in
proper working order. Back then, I think I paid close to $1000 for it.
Today, they can be had for $80, but are pretty much a toss away item, like
so much else.
Ed
300E
On 19 December 2010 11:07, WILTON wrote:
> 'Best microwave oven I've had ('think it was Toshiba, bought in Japan in
> 1972) simple rotary switch and timer combined; turned it a bit clockwise,
> and it was ON; 'could keep turning it to the time desired. Performed very
> well for 25 years; still working well when I rebuilt kitchen, stupidly
> installed new one and gave the old one to Salvation Army.
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Jim Cathey"
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance
>
>
> While previously geographically confined primarily to Redmond, WA, and the
>>> SanJose, CA area, severe [PD] epidemics are now places like Stuttgart, and
>>> Munich in Germany, the entire country of Japan, ...
>>>
>>
>> No kidding! They got a new microwave oven at work. The wretched
>> thing beeps out some kind of lame tune when it's done. (Those
>> sonalert beepers are bad enough all by their lonesome, now let's
>> hear 'music' on them...) Guys have wasted irreplaceable minutes
>> of their life navigating the menu buttons to try to turn it off,
>> and sometimes they succeed, but then the oven goes and forgets
>> what it's been told and it starts all over.
>>
>> It's an _oven_! The world is full of MP3 players, home theater
>> audio systems, etc., and we need an _oven_ that peeps like a diseased
>> chick when your food is ready? Puts me off any thought of eating,
>> and more toward pitching the thing, food and all, through the
>> nearest window.
>>
>> -- Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
___
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Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
i am master of many things. i guess i can't help it as mastery is in my nature i'm not sure that should make me a target of personal attacks on a daily basis for the bully kids though On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Max Dillon wrote: > Here Here! I second the motion - almost coughed up my cereal reading that > one! > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Dieselhead > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:20 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate > > Kaleb, This belong on your famous quotes page. It is extremely > hilarious, coming from the master of flaming. > > > >Hursty sez: > > > >you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i don't think you see it > at > >all > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 88 300TE
I'm not sure of the years when the harness was an issue, but, after having a good look at the wires, or the insulation on some of the wires on my '88 300E, I think they will need some attention this coming summer. I think such things when exposed to heat, and with age, probably just need replacement. The car is now 23 years old, and as far as I can make out, the wires on mine are original. On the plus side, most of the wires look easy enough to get to. Not sure what a whole new harness costs though. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 11:13, Bob Rentfro wrote: > Self destructing wire harness or not?? > > Bob are > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
wow attack after attack. where is the moderator during all of this? i attacked no one and get attacked again and again and again by people like penoff (who, btw, is personally beholden to me, which makes it even uglier) we were once friends of sort. it was penoff who named me "jabba" today, just viciousness and animalism. i ask no one to fall in step with my ideas, especially those that are bizarre and psychotic what is it with you people that you must launch personal attack after personal attack? a once shining beacon of the mercedes world is reduced to this? i really suggest those of you who are involved in its destruction repent. you can do better than this. On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:41 AM, LWB250 wrote: > It's mainly because Hurst is an obsessive maniac who lashes out at anyone > who doesn't fall in step with his bizarre and often psychotic ideas, myself > being one of those. > > The easiest way to deal with such things is to utilize your mail filter. > It makes the list a far easier read and eliminates the fringe element that > skulk in the dark corners, only to surface when they get off their meds. > > I believe the proper term is "troll", but if you ever saw Hurst, his > physical makeup hardly fits this. Better the moniker "Jabba", which he > earned some years ago. > > Dan > > > --- On Sun, 12/19/10, Walt Zarnoch wrote: > > > From: Walt Zarnoch > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 2:04 AM > > I don't think I perrsonally drove > > anyone away. > > > > I rarely intervene in the general flow of the list, and > > what little I do say > > is usualy looking for tidbits of information to help with > > my project, or a > > reply to an off-topic discussion. > > > > I guess I slipped up by giving an opinion about the double > > pane window > > thing, but that is hardly a reason for anyone to fly off > > the handle. > > > > I have no personal issue with anyone here, I understand we > > all have a > > difference in opinion, and that is a good thing. > > > > I just can't see why this is going on right now. > > > > Walt > > On Dec 19, 2010 1:29 AM, "Gary Hurst" > > wrote: > > > if you wish to learn, it's probably not best to drive > > jaime to > > unsubscribe. > > > he's not only a good fella, but has much specialized > > knowledge. first to > > > drive him off and then to just keep piling on is not > > stylish > > > > > > i also got an email from richard, the founder of this > > list, regarding the > > > endless slander he receives here > > > > > > you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i > > don't think you see it > > at > > > all > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Walt Zarnoch > > wrote: > > > > > >> Ok, I'm a nobody with less experience than most > > list member's pinky toes, > > >> but I won't stand people outright flaming. > > >> > > >> I don't care to know the exact nature of what was > > going on when I first > > >> joined the list, but it seems to be repeating > > itself. I don't know why. > > >> I don't care who started it, or their reasons. > > >> > > >> Are not we all above this? Does everything now > > devolve to people acting > > >> like > > >> rabid dogs? > > >> > > >> I joined this list to learn, not to get my inbox > > accosted with vitriolic > > >> hate. One would think that people who take pride > > in owning or working on > > a > > >> Benz would be better suited at turning the other > > cheek and acting > > congenial > > >> to their fellow man, especially during this > > season. > > >> > > >> Walt > > >> On Dec 19, 2010 12:49 AM, "Gary Hurst" > > wrote: > > >> > you and penoff are identical cousins maybe? > > >> > > > >> > the fools have already driven jaime off the > > lists. what more do you > > want > > >> > from him? he's left. everyone here must be > > like you? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Hendrik > > & Fay > >> >wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Yes I saw you where back and it seems > > back to your usual way of > > >> expressing > > >> >> yourself. > > >> >> > > >> >> I reckon I still have the right to > > express thoughts on this list or > > >> perhaps > > >> >> you are now in charge and only mad rants, > > directed at whole sections > > of > > >> list > > >> >> members, are allowed (ie. the haters and > > ignorant ones) and the hating > > >> >> ignorant ones are especially going to > > feel the wrath of Jabba the hutt > > >> and > > >> >> the ueber master of automotive knowledge, > > or has he had his dummy > > spit, > > >> >> grabbed his bat and joined a more > > intelligent MB forum, where they > > >> >> appreciate the 140 and it's gadgets and > > deride any MB that cost less > > >> than > > >> >> 20K to buy. > > >> >> > > >> >> Now perhaps you would be good enough to > > point out the rule that posts, > > >> of > > >> a > > >> >> certain age, cannot be commented upon. > > The original post from the > > master > > >> was > > >> >> o
Re: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks
He was selling it for a friend. I've walked away from that steaming pile of poop. Bob R On Dec 19, 2010 10:30 AM, "Mike Gildea" wrote: > Watch out --title has already been signed over. Question is why? seller > not the same as the name on title? somebody illegally flipping cars? Be > careful. > - Original Message - > From: "Bob Rentfro" > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:21 AM > Subject: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks > > >> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/2119667411.html >> >> Bob R >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks
Watch out --title has already been signed over. Question is why? seller not the same as the name on title? somebody illegally flipping cars? Be careful. - Original Message - From: "Bob Rentfro" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:21 AM Subject: [MBZ] Is this a good of a deal as it looks http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/2119667411.html Bob R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Microwaves and PD WAS:more 140 ignorance
Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes: > I was looking for a MW oven 25 years ago, and when I asked about > reliability, the guy at the store said that none of the touchpad ovens > last long, as the touchpads fail. He said he had one Litton left with > a dial timer. He deemed that machine as the most reliable available. > It still works great. Id does NOT play muzak, talk back or do > anything but microwave food. It is wonderful. I have a Goldstar (company is now known as LG I believe) microwave I bought in 1990 and it still works great. It is a touchpad control, with a turntable. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I changed my pistons and fuses all melted. I don't know what to do now -- if I leave the fuses as they are will my pistons melt? --R On 12/19/2010 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Gerry Archer wrote: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the "critisizer in chief" and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? Eventually Jaime was made the moderator of a DIESELTECH list, which existed to discuss higher mechanics and modifications apart from the regular DIESEL list. Herr Doktor either unsubscribed or was banned from that list after naysaying every engine hop-up thread. The two things Marshall is best remembered for are ALWAYS REPLACE ALL THE FUSES when you buy a used car, and if you modify that diesel engine, YOU WILL MELT YOUR PISTONS. Since Dr. August Marshall Booth left this earth, the sayings have been combined humorously. For example: IF YOU DON'T CHANGE YOUR FUSES, YOUR PISTONS WILL MELT. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 88 300TE
No, not until 1993. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Bob Rentfro wrote: Self destructing wire harness or not?? Bob are ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Gerry Archer wrote: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the "critisizer in chief" and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? Eventually Jaime was made the moderator of a DIESELTECH list, which existed to discuss higher mechanics and modifications apart from the regular DIESEL list. Herr Doktor either unsubscribed or was banned from that list after naysaying every engine hop-up thread. The two things Marshall is best remembered for are ALWAYS REPLACE ALL THE FUSES when you buy a used car, and if you modify that diesel engine, YOU WILL MELT YOUR PISTONS. Since Dr. August Marshall Booth left this earth, the sayings have been combined humorously. For example: IF YOU DON'T CHANGE YOUR FUSES, YOUR PISTONS WILL MELT. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
