[NSP] Re: D chanter on AU ebay
Listing has ended anyway (Australia is ahead of us on time so it's tomorrow there today) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: John Dally dir...@gmail.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:38 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: D chanter on AU ebay Maybe a confused description - could Colin clarify this? But there are a lot of keys at the top end. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of John Dally [dir...@gmail.com] Sent: 24 March 2011 17:25 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] D chanter on AU ebay Curious about the keys on this chanter. Chanter Keys (10 - A, B, C, d, e, f, g, G#, a, A#, b, c, Cnat, d, E, F, G, A) If transposed to an F chanter that would be D E F# g a b c C# d D# e f# Fnat g A B C D. That is an unusual selection isn't it? Thanks for posting, Julia, but I don't think I'll be bidding on it. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: D chanter on AU ebay
Sorry, meant to add it was sold on Friday 25th March (hence the attempt at a joke) for 950 AU. Still like to know if those notes were right or if it was a special though. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:38 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: D chanter on AU ebay Listing has ended anyway (Australia is ahead of us on time so it's tomorrow there today) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: John Dally dir...@gmail.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:38 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: D chanter on AU ebay Maybe a confused description - could Colin clarify this? But there are a lot of keys at the top end. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of John Dally [dir...@gmail.com] Sent: 24 March 2011 17:25 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] D chanter on AU ebay Curious about the keys on this chanter. Chanter Keys (10 - A, B, C, d, e, f, g, G#, a, A#, b, c, Cnat, d, E, F, G, A) If transposed to an F chanter that would be D E F# g a b c C# d D# e f# Fnat g A B C D. That is an unusual selection isn't it? Thanks for posting, Julia, but I don't think I'll be bidding on it. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Has there ever been an NSP with _all_ keys (no open holes)?
I suppose the if it ain't broke, don't fix it rule applies but I can well see the point if, due to a disability, one needed something away from the norm (anyone invented an electric pump to fill the bag yet, I'm finding pumping the bellows a hard task these days - lol). Although not a disability, I do remember my old friend the late Pete Rowley making himself a left handed set of pipes some years ago so adapting is possible. As said, most keys have been added to increase the notes available from something that uses fingers to cover holes so maybe a redesign isn't that daft a suggestion as the origins of most wind instruments are very ancient. The melodica? I class mine as keyboard rather than wind (otherwise where do we place a church organ or a harmonium - my harmonium had reeds like a concertina - oh, is that a wind instrument as well?). Slippery slope here. Really interesting discussion though. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:34 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Has there ever been an NSP with _all_ keys (no open holes)? And given that an instrument's design is (literally) instrumental in shaping its own repertoire, would it even be at all appropriate to do so? Best wishes, Richard. On 23/03/2011 11:15, Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote: I've a recollection that adding all the keys to woodwind instruments wasn't just about being able to add extra notes, but because some notes can fit better with a fully chromatic scale if the holes are all different sizes, including some that are too big for fingers to cover. There's an article about it here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boehm_System Would this give us any benefits? Even if it would, it sounds as though it would require a complete redesign of the chanter as well. Dru To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2436SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch
The original question I posed was more a rhetorical one. The point being that, until the invention of the tuning fork, there was no set or standard pitch as such. Only the sound of other instruments - hence the plethora of tuning methods to ensure everyone played the same (or as near as possible). Obviously better to tune to an instrument either to a well known one (such as the town organ) or one that couldn't be altered (as in the principal of a tuning fork as it comes from the maker and before anyone files a bit off because it's sharp etc). We are lucky now because we have the technology to set, say, A=440 and make comparisons for tuning, our forbears were not so lucky. The reason they traditionally/originally tune to the oboe A, of course. I wonder how many orchestras tuned to an Oboe that was several cents out? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton i...@gretton-willems.com To: 'Colin' cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch In a large number of cities, the tuning standard was taken from the organ (specifically the flue pipes) in the church, the cathedral, or the local ruler's chapel. That pitch in turn tended to be determined by the particular organ-builder - say Silbermann - who transported his preferred pitch from one commission to another. Until well into the 19th century, there was an incredible mish-mash of different pitches from one town/city to the other. (And even within a particular city too - Bach complained of the varying pitches of the organs in Leipzig.) This was not a terrible problem for string players but it certainly was for wind players. Brass players, for example, had to travel equipped with a whole series of bits for fine tuning because until the 19th century brass instruments didn't have tuning slides. Flutes had to have corps de rechange - alternative middle sections of slightly differing lengths and hole placements for tuning to different pitch standards. So in fact the variety of pitches for the NSP is extremely traditional! Two hundred years ago it wouldn't have been thought in any way remarkable. Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Colin Sent: 09 February 2011 01:37 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch Which were tuned with reference to.. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: gibbonssoi...@aol.com To: cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:27 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch Before the tuning fork was invented, there were pitch pipes. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch
That's very interesting. I still have to ask though (and it IS a genuine question) - how did they tune to those standard pitches? Did a clarinet maker in the area say I'll make my clarinet to be in tune to Fred's serpent, he make's good ones? Most standards are set in various ways (like a size being the length of the King's foot or similar) and then having something made to check everything else again (like the standard measures held in the Jewel Tower) and all other measures are compared against this to ensure uniformity. I suppose it would have to be something untunable - like a cast bell (yes, I know they can be tuned ) from which the idea of a tuning fork originated (rather than the idea of the city organ which had to be tuned to something in the first place). Unlike pitch pipes, a tuning fork is pretty well stable (reeds in pitch pipes can go out of tune over time). As establishing frequencies was yet to come, I keep wondering what the instrument makers tuned to. Maybe one maker made all the instruments in a band or got together with other makers so they played in tune with each other. A bit of a chicken and egg situation. I'll stop asking questions. I'll find a copy of that book and read it. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: julia@nspipes.co.uk; Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch - Original Message - From: Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk This can also be seen on some modern sets (various makers), although I have been taught to put a rod down the bore before drilling to prevent it happening! (And had the bore inspected closely to check I'd done so!) Sets have been observed where the maker has absent-mindedly drilled right through the far side, I believe. Whereas I can't claim NEVER to have touched the far side of the bore (a good tune title?) I'll just say that with care, a flat-ended drill and delicacy of touch, there should be no need for rods down the bore. You just stop the drill before it goes too deep! Answering Colin's earlier post: until the invention of the tuning fork, there was no set or standard pitch as such. In fact, according to the latest research (Bruce Haynes' fairly definitive book The story of A - a history of performing pitch) even in the late 16th/early 17th century there were three main standardised pitches generally recognised across Europe, and the fact that there were only a few centres where the best wind instruments were made helped to determine this - but it's a complex subject, best summed up in the biblical quotation He that toucheth pitch shall be defiled therewith. Very interesting discussion though. Thanks for all the contributions. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch
Good points. I suppose as the pipes are essentially a solo instrument, it wouldn't matter what note they sounded provided the things were in tune with themselves. That's essentially true for many rural instruments (I remember making penny whistles from elder wood as a child and goodness knows what key they were in as it depended on the size of the branches I cut) I suppose. It's only when two or more get together that differences would show up. Big difference when any form of mass production came in and everything was made to the one set of plans. Do the older instruments that still exist show this or not? On a similar vein, what did people tune things to (prior to the invention of the tuning for in 1711). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: [NSP] Tuning/pitch On 7^th Feb Colin Hill wrote: What I can never understand is WHY the pitch changes. Thanks Paul (Gretton) for a full entertaining reply from an orchestral point of view. From the point of view of pipes we need to remember that in the 20^th century professional Northumbrian pipe makers only came in around 1973/4. Before that David Burleigh was still stuffing animals at the Hancock museum and Colin Ross was a lecturer in sculpture/fine art. When, in 1967, I first asked about getting a set for myself every reply was based on the same advice, 'find some lignum vitae mangle rollers and make your own'. Occasionally it was 'find some ebony ledger rulers and make your own'. I would guess that well over 50 people took this advice and made sets at night classes following (more or less) the plans in the Cocks Bryan book. The result is that there are a fair few sets around which are (to put it kindly) approximations to the plans but many people still stick with these sets they or friends have made because they are dear to them. I have 8 F chanters here at the moment. 4 by professional makers have dimensions hole spacings with 1mm of each other so could be regarded as standardised, but the 4 garden shed examples vary by up to 5mm over the single octave G to g spacings. I well understand the frustrations caused by the variations in pipes pitch but I suspect the same is true wherever there has been a living tradition of people making their own instruments on which to play their own music. It seems to me that any change towards full standardization to say concert F pitch could only come about by destroying 80% or more of instruments in existence (perish the thought!). Perhaps we just need to accept the situation as it is and make the best of it. To be honest I find it all rather wonderful and challenging. Cheers Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch
Which were tuned with reference to.. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: gibbonssoi...@aol.com To: cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:27 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch Before the tuning fork was invented, there were pitch pipes. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Esoteric tuning relationships
It always fascinates me how the tuning of things changes (I have a concertina in high pitch). For those (like me) not well versed in the mechanics and theory of things, this makes good reading: http://www.piano-tuners.org/history/pitch.html (and also which locations not to attempt to play the pipes with the instruments noted). What I can never understand is WHY the pitch changes. Imagine if they did that with yards etc (change to metric notwithstanding) or liquid measure (I asked for a pint, what's this? - Oh the pint has been getting smaller over the years..). A standard should be just that - a standard. If it changes, it ain't standard! Good interesting thread though. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: drubrooketay...@btinternet.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:45 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Esoteric tuning relationships And I've been telling people it is because all notes have got gradually sharper over the last 150 years, and that the Reid 'ur-pipes' were made when G was somewhere between where F and G are now. Have I been wrong all this time? This is probably an associated factor. My speculation about the 440 tuning fork more concerned modern pipes (which are inevitably in the majority) manufactured after the introduction of 440 as an international standard (though many windplayers and hence orchestras incline to 442 (or even 443) nowadays). C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?)
I appreciate the anti-corrosion effect of brass regarding seawater but the depth of corrosion required to seal the metal is probably greater than the thickness of most brasswork on a set of pipes. If you ever clean badly corroded brass to get it to look like brass again, you'll find a very pitted surface underneath (I have a large collection of Victorian brass - candlesticks, horse brasses etc) so, by all means leave it green - if you never want it to look smooth and brassy again. Remember that some pipes have ferrules which are not solid metal but are plated - and thin plating at that (maybe NS on brass - the EPNS found on old fruit baskets etc) and, if that corrodes, you are left with patches of brass showing through. By the same token, cleaning them will wear the plating off as well - eventually. Gold fittings won't tarnish (well, people have gold flutes so why not). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Bo Albrechtsen b...@glaipnir.dk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:45 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?) Den 14-01-2011 21:39, [1]gibbonssoi...@aol.com skrev: ..snip With brass, the same is not true for copper and its alloys. So corrosion doesn't prevent further corrosion. Sorry, but I don't quite follow you there. Rust on iron or steel does not prevent further corrosion, but exactly the copper alloys brass and bronze plus pure copper are very well protected by the oxidated layer on the surface. This even works well i a marine environment thus being the reason for all the brasswork that used to be onboard ships. Further, the verdigris expands, relative to the metal that was there before, so mechanisms can be jammed. Yes ! Also the metal oxides accelerates the tendencies of vegetable oils to turn into gum-like snotomers ( he-he, thank's Julia) And it looks vile as well. Depends on the eye of the beholder ;-) But it is also slightly poisonous. Bo A -- References 1. mailto:gibbonssoi...@aol.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads
Did you mean haven't written yet? Next years competitions maybe? :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - On 14 Jan 2011, at 23:57, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is 'The rotting of the cotton threads' the title of a tune I haven't learned yet? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Intonation
Thanks so much, John, Francis, I'll try climbing out of the ravine today. Colin On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Liestman [1]j...@liestman.com wrote: Francis, you must have the earlier pre-plateau version! I have posted a pdf file version at [2]http://www.liestman.com/plateau.pdf for anyone to read that is so inclined. It is called Drone Reeds and the Plateau of Stability but it is truly the plateau of happiness if you can achieve it! Let me know if for some reason the link does not work and I will just email you (whoever you are . . . or is) a copy. Happy droning on the plateau! On 1/11/2011 12:18 PM, Francis Wood wrote: Colin, are you using composite drone reeds or all-cane ones? Adjustment techniques will, of course differ. Whatever you're using, I'd check the drone itself as a priority, checking that everything is sealing correctly (tuning beads are often suspect), that the bore is clean and smooth, and that the tone hole is entirely free of any invisible debris or excess lubrication, which often accumulates invisibly there. Any of these deficiencies will cause instability. I have John Liestman's excellent book, but probably an earlier version than the one you mentioned, since I can't find the reed advice on those or adjacent pages. I do recall reading John's remarks about the parameters of stability (I think he calls that area the 'Plateau of Happiness' or something similar) and this may be in a subsequent edition or even in an NPS Magazine article. It's very good information. Of course, it is one thing to adjust a good reed and an entirely different matter to spend ages on a drone reed that does not work well and never will. Unfortunately some drone reeds are not worthy of that attention. Pitch of almost any woodwind reed will rise with pressure. The ideal reed behaviour for NSPs is one where pitch changes relatively little, and evenly, with all drone reeds and the chanter reed behaving similarly. That's a rare but not impossible situation, requiring not only skill but luck. I suspect that as much success comes from knowing when to reject a reed, as knowing when and how to adjust it. Francis On 11 Jan 2011, at 12:40, Colin and Cheryl McNaught wrote: Following on from these sage comments, does anyone have ideas about what causes some drones to be significantly more pressure sensitive than others. By this I mean their pitch varies more for a given change in bag pressure. Once they are adjusted for pitch and pressure there doesn't seem to be anything else to tweak without spoiling the pitch/pressure set-ups. I have a set that is very stable and another that has a couple of drones that aren't and would like to improve them. I always try to play other pipe sets when at NSP get-togethers and it's been my experience that every set I have played has some quirky notes. I'm sure there's a reed dependency in this too. Making small (often unconscious) adjustments in bag pressure seems to be a part of playing this instrument well (just as embouchure adjustments on, e.g. oboe, flute). Consequently, a set of drones that is more stable can result in a 'sweeter' end result than one that isn't. Colin (McNaught) On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:05 PM,[1][3]gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: As many notes on an NSP chanter can be bent about a quarter tone without putting the drones far out - at least on a good reed day - I guess one difference between a good piper and a fairly good one is the former will squeeze notes into tune unconsciously and accurately, the latter consciously and only fairly accurately. I often think of singing the note, so I have an idea of the pitch in my head, to aim for. Listening to the chord with the drones - if these are in tune - also helps with some notes. It is the notes that harmonise with the drones which are most exposed if out of tune, so recognising a just 3rd or whatever tells you you've got there. The singing trick doesn't work so well if you are still thinking equal-tempered, mind. So chords are better. Long notes are good practice for this - I wonder if this is one reason Tom Clough liked playing hymn tunes? 'Oh God our Help in Ages Past' (aka St Anne, or 'The Goldfish') is a good one for this, dead slow. I sometimes use this to see if the drones are 'really' in tune
[NSP] Re: Drone Tuning
This talk of drone tuning reminded me of something. Some years ago, someone on this list directed us to a website which had (I hope I can explain this and make sense) a keynote playing and you had to use sliders to tune the drones (using the mouse) and got a score for how near you were (it was an aid to tuning by ear) and showed how far out you were (I think it also had a this is how it should sound audio as well). Anyone remember it (I lost the URL several PCs ago) and does it still exist? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Drone Tuning Anthony, Certainly adding drones on the 2nd time through, works well on UP, especially on airs. Irish slow airs, being usually vocal music rather than pipe music, maybe don't require a drone so fundamentally. Musically this idea makes less sense on drone music though - double-tonic tunes etc. But with NSP, it is rare to have an on-off drone key, so it is hard for us to do in practice. As for drones being out of tune on recordings - as I said, it is the effect on the listener which matters. I can think of an otherwise excellent recording where the drones were badly out in places, so I know what you mean. But shutting them off is a cop-out, not a solution. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 10:52 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning What you say is true, but still ignores Paddy Maloney's point of adding drones further into (even 'proper') pipes tunes for greater impact. We also have to remember that out of tune drones (and this unfortunately is the norm it seems to me) do little to enhance the music. This is true even in the most surprising quarters i.e. modern recordings where retakes could be done fairly easily to correct this. Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: 'Anthony Robb' anth...@robbpipes.com, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 10:17 Not at all - but pipes do sound better with drones, which are a fundamental part of the instrument, and also of what we might call 'proper' pipe music. There are some tunes where drones don't work, and some multi-instrument arrangements where they might get in the way, but - on pipe tunes at least - there is a price to pay if you shut them off. My warning was just to your more literal-minded readers out there, who might not think about the effect of their music on listeners. John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 09:48 To: [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4]rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John [5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John [6]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: Anthony Robb [7]anth...@robbpipes.com, [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu [9]...@cs.dartmouth.edu, [10]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [11]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Thursday, 6 January, 2011, 20:50 Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John
[NSP] Re: Doubleday et al
I did mention earlier that Billy Pigg was my first introduction to the pipes (although I was familiar with the Irish pipes but not through playing). 1968, Corries TV program and a very unassuming gentleman was being asked by them regarding the pipes and giving answers like yes and no. He played Bill Charlton's Fancy and, from that moment, I wanted to play. (Still have the audio of that ob reel-to-reel somewhere). Took until C1973 when the LP Wild Hills etc came out (or until I found it in the record shop) and it had the NPS details on it to actually go about getting a set. Phoning Ray (Fisher) Ross put me in touch will Bill Hedworth who had just completed a simple set which he could send me in a matter of weeks. If I remember, it cost around £30 and he provided me (on loan - I did send it back after copying it longhand - no scanners then) a booklet on how to play, a set of reeds at various stages of completion and a sketch on how to adjust the bridle. A lifetime membership to the NPS followed (that was nearly a whole month's salary) and, about a year later, a conversion to a 7 key set which I still play. Conversion (new 7 key chanter, new drone stock with extra hole and low D drone) cost £36. I did have to drill a hole in the G drone to use the A as the cover was there but Bill hadn't drilled the actual hole under it). I then made my first (and last) visit to the AGM (by rail) and gawped at the likes of Colin Ross and Forster Charlton being there (and suddenly realised who Ray Ross was). Also heard Colin playing border pipes but couldn't persuade my wife to let me have a set of them as well! Happy memories. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Cc: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 2:55 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Doubleday et al On 19 Dec 2010, at 12:55, Richard York wrote: It would be interesting to know how many people, either within the North Eastern fold or out of it, were first inspired by hearing Mr Pigg's playing, though. Well, me for a start. Knowing almost nothing about traditional music, and never having heard of Northumbrian pipes, I came across the Billy Pigg LP on Leader Records in a record shop in Colchester. I liked the scholarly presentation with excellent illustrations and notes by Colin Ross and bought it immediately, thinking I'd got something fascinating and totally obscure. On the way home, I met the vicar's wife who said Oh, I see you've got the Billy Pigg LP! I immediately played it to my flat-mate who after a couple of minutes, said Do we have to have this on? But by then, I was hooked. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Ooh, need to take care with words like expressive, I think. In an attempt to get more expression, isn't that what choyting is all about? We need to be careful when comparing different instruments. I have found a great deal of expressiveness listening to some pipers but in the way they play and their technique rather than the sound produced (which, on the pipes, would be pretty consistent, I hope). A fiddle player can alter the pressure, the speed of bowing etc - things that are just not possible to the same extent on the pipes, I would have thought. One of the beauties (to me) of the pipes is that the sound produced remains more or less the same (unlike many instruments when all sorts of wails and vibrato can be added) but the WAY they are played can vary so much between pipers (and I mean good pipers, of course). Many instruments with fixed reeds can be made to be more expressive of course (thinking things like concertina and volume/tremolo etc) but I just don't see that for the pipes. Maybe that's why they are such an important instrument. I may, of course, just be waffling in the breeze (oh, good name for a tune there - must write it) and, if so, ignore me but I just can't see a point in comparing apples and potatoes (you choose which is which). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 11:28 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Doubleday I'll think more on what he meant when I have more time! For expression - I quite agree with you on fiddle tunes. On the other hand, there are expressive tunes written primarily for pipes, surely, where they sound superbly best on pipes? And it is truly hard for anyone to make them work with these, because of the very dynamic limitations you mention. When I had some lessons with Jean-Pierre Rasle on my first Swayne pipes, he rightly said that the old pipers (in France in his case) rated it much harder to make a good job of a slow air than a dance tune. And it's all subjective, ain't it! For me, I find the nsp's far more expressive than my very nice toned piano accordion, which has any amount of dynamic control. All best wishes, Richard. On 17/12/2010 22:46, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Richard Doubleday wrote: The Northumberland small-pipe is fitted up upon the plan of construction common to all bagpipes aEUR that is to say, aEUR it consists of a pipe with stops, by means of which the melody is played, and of three longer pipes sounding different musical intervals in such a way as to produce a rude and imperfect accompaniment to the melody. Taking this in the context of his whole argument he seems to be saying that common forms of bagpipe have chanters which aren't in tune over their range and therefore clash with the constant reference point of the drones. But he then goes on to say that the special quality of the smallpipes is that they can be played in tune and make a melodious sound. It's interesting how we arrive at two contrasting interpretations of his words. For me he delights in the sound of the small-pipes. On the point of expression I've been moved to tears as much by the pipes as the fiddle. The question is, can they match the fiddle when playing the big fiddle tunes? I have to say after 45 years involvement at all levels in this music I have yet to find a single example. I would dearly love to as the pipes are my heritage. I heard them as a school boy and loved them more than any other instrument in the world, but loving them more than any other instrument is one thing, convincing myself they are the most expressive instrument in the world is another. As aye Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Clogging
Managed to watch a repeat (half past one in the morning!) of the general dance program (I did record it but just don't trust the recorder to do what I have told it). Hopefully the clogging program will turn up again shortly. They do tend to cycle them on BBC as the preceding program I have seen at least three times now. iPlayer doesn't like my slow dirge of a PC. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: John Dally dir...@gmail.com To: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Cc: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 5:25 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Clogging Thanks for the link for the expat viewing software. Too bad they didn't include a piper among the musicians. The thought of a NSP flash-mob appearing in Gray's Square came to mind. It would be interesting to interview a crowd in downtown Newcastle about whether or not they know about NSP. How well known are the NSP to the average Geordie? When Wally Bell, formerly of Morpeth, moved to the island here he was flabbergasted to find anyone who had even heard of the NSP, much less a NSPiper. I can't wait to show him the video because he was the first in his family to not go down in the pits. His two older brothers did and one still works there. There was one fellow they interviewed in the square who had a lovely Northumbrian accent. I could listen to that all day. If there's interest in a documentary like this on clogging, there must be enough inteest for a similar kind of program on NSPiping. You could set a day for as many NSPipers from around the world to gather in one place for an international NSP flash mob! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Help please
Strange things happened. When I tried to play a file in IE, I got a Spybot warning that something was trying to alter the Quicktime settings and was marked as malicious software (I rarely use Quicktime so it was probably way out of date but have no idea why it should cause a problem). After that they played fine BUT clicking on another one whilst the other was still playing didn't terminate the first one so it's possible to have them all playing together (not recommended for those of nervous disposition) but they didn't start spontaniously. In Firefox the players don't show at all - just a black box where they should be. It was, however, possible to download the clips using Firefox's DownloadHelper and play them off the hard disc. My system is quite old (like me). WinXP. I have no idea why the mediaplayers don't show up at all in Firefox though. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard A. Bennett rajhbenn...@comcast.net To: anth...@robbpipes.com; John Clifford cliff...@universalist.ednet.co.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 11:20 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Help please Anthony, I had no problem with your sound clips. (Windows Vista IE or iPod Touch Safari) Dick Hello Folks May I ask for your help to see if you experience all clips playing automatically and simultaneously (OUCH!!) when viewing my website www.robbpipes.com It seems fine from this end but there is at least 1 person out there finding this problem and I'd like to see how universal it is. Hugs thanks all round for any assistance with this. Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Looking to get started - was- My little tune sponge....
Hi Reid, Another NSP player in the US would be wonderful! There's a group that meets somewhat intermittently on the East Coast (we call ourselves Mi-Atlantic but this may be mis-interpreted as being half way to Northumberland). The center of gravity of this is Pennsylvania but we have two players in the Baltimore/Washington area. Check out this link [1]http://upmw.smad.us/squeezethebag/ for an event in January in WV not far from DC which has a full NSP program as well as other bellows pipes. Don't worry about starting when over the hill, I ordered my first set on my 60th birthday. Contact / call off-list if you need any help advice from someone who has recently gone through the learning process without any local help. Colin McNaught Annapolis, MD 410 849 2961 On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Reid Bishop [2]greidbis...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Richard Wow I am just really overwhelmed with the encouraging responses this group has given me. Thanks to you and others for helping me work this out. I am in fact very interested in getting a loner set from an appropriate source as soon as is reasonable. John wrote back saying his are currently spoken for so I am interested in renting one of you sets. How do we proceed? I have some time over the Christmas holidays to devote some time to the effort. I would love to get on somebody's loner list. I am also checking out the pipers gathering information as suggested. Cheers Reid On Nov 13, 2010, at 8:48 PM, Richard Shuttleworth [3]rshuttlewo...@sympatico.ca wrote: Hello Reid, You can find help through the Pipers' Gathering which holds a convention in early August each year in Vermont. Visit [4]www.pipersgathering.org for all the basic details. We have two sets of Northumbrian small pipes and two sets of Scottish small pipes available for rent (although some are already in use) and if John Leistman doesn't have a set available at this time then we may be able to help you out. Through our mailing list, we may be able to put you in touch with pipers living near you or failing that offer you some advice and encouragement via Skype. Keep in touch! Richard ps The Pipers' Gathering is always looking for sets that we can use as rental sets to help prospective pipers get started on their road to ruin. If anyone knows of sets that are currently languishing in a cupboard then we would love to hear from you! - Original Message - From: Reid Bishop [5]greidbis...@gmail.com To: Ian Lawther [6]irlawt...@comcast.net Cc: NSP group [7]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 3:42 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: My little tune sponge Hideeho, I am new to the nsp list serve. I play fiddle and a few other stringed instruments in various Celtic trad styles. My love of Celtic music began when I was 12 listening to Scottish pipers. I am turning 40 this month and have decided at long last that I want to pipe! I play routinely with my family who are also trad players so I need something to play tunes on that context at least occassionally. I am growing in fascination with the NSP. How should I start? Better should I start given that I am now officially over the hill and have never played any kind of a wind instrument. Are Scottish smallpipes more appropriate. I am handy with fixing and maintaining instruments. Help! Cheers Reid - G. Reid Bishop, Ph.D. Director Mississippi River Field Institute National Audubon Society 1208 Washington St. Vicksburg, MS 39183 Office: (601)-661-6189 Mobile: (601)-214-5261 Email: [8]rbis...@audubon.org Web:[9]mri.audubon.org On Nov 13, 2010, at 2:18 PM, Ian Lawther [10]irlawt...@comcast.net wrote: My youngest daughter (10) has always been a little bit of a tune sponge though she has refused to join the school choir (much to the teachers disappointment) and only recently took up an instrument (flute). Last night she was whistling something from Holst's The Planets which she picked up somewhere but right now she is sitting playing with Lego and whistling Morpeth Rantwhich I happened to be practicing on the melodeon about half and hour ago. She does it better than I was doing. Ian To get on or off this list see list information at [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://upmw.smad.us/squeezethebag/ 2. mailto:greidbis...@gmail.com 3. mailto:rshuttlewo...@sympatico.ca 4. http://www.pipersgathering.org/ 5. mailto:greidbis...@gmail.com 6. mailto:irlawt...@comcast.net 7. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:rbis...@audubon.org 9. http://mri.audubon.org/ 10. mailto:irlawt...@comcast.net 11. http
[NSP] Re: Where hast thou been all the night?
I do so agree. The midi version does, however, have the benefit that it can be slowed down for those of us with not-so-agile-anymore digits :-) It also has the benefit of being able to be turned into the dots on freeware programs. Personally, I'd like both - a nice mp3 of how it should sound in real life and the ability to make the dots to take it slow and easy to learn. Midi will never sound as it should - we can't transfer feeling to digital (thank goodness) although they had a good try with the piano many years ago (punched roll that actually varied the pressure etc on the keys - it's in the Paul Corin museum in Cornwall which I visited many times - and the difference between that and a general pianola is remarkable. I think of midi as the blank canvas on which to paint the music. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 8:19 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast thou been all the night? Hello Colin It's not just the nasty tonal quality it is the lifeless, mechanical emptiness of the noise which rankles. This music gets its life and very existence from the human touch of individual phrasing and decoration. It is this more than anything which we need to appreciate the beauty behind the dots. We now have the technology to send this vital spark of the music around the globe. Wouldn't it be a great idea for musicians to use it? As aye Anthony --- On Fri, 5/11/10, Colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk wrote: From: Colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast thou been all the night? To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 5 November, 2010, 23:44 Sound isn't a problem for me as (somehow) I have ABCNavigator set to play using something like a reedy violin ( I think it's set for harmonica) but I'm a little stuck on the tempo for this one (not that good reading the dots) and, when played, it raced away at a speed which I had no hope of matching on anything! Certainly not on the pipes or gurdy without losing a finger or two. I'm possibly used to seeing a Q value (?) in the header of abc to set the tempo. It opened at 100 but, at 30, it sounds a rather nice tune. Any suggestions as to the tempo (another well known tune that's at the same tempo would do as I really don't know that much about abc either) :-) Thanks, Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb [1]anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS [2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 7:07 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast thou been all the night? To John Julia Matt and all This has been a wonderful interchange and highly enjoyable save in one respect. The horrible midi noise made as my computer plays the examples. I can't be the only one who would love to hear the points made on the instrument(s) the tune(s) was/were developed for. A recording via an inexpensive mic directly into the computer would be a vast improvement on the tinny piano I've been listening to. Could there be a vault where examples are stored not just for people on this list but other pipers too? I realise some immediacy would be lost but it would be a wonderful resource once the discussion was over. Cheers Anthony --- On Fri, 5/11/10, Julia Say [3]julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: From: Julia Say [4]julia@nspipes.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast thou been all the night? To: NSP group [5]...@cs.dartmouth.edu, Gibbons, John [6]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Date: Friday, 5 November, 2010, 16:01 On 5 Nov 2010, Gibbons, John wrote: Crawhall's tags... are harmonically as well as melodically different from Reavely, Exactly - which is why I think there's two possible sets there. the illegibilities in Crawhall seem to be mostly his fault... Was he noting this down in haste, I wonder? There are similarities in parts of the Clough MSS, where the writing is obviously that of Tom (3), but not the considered and legible stuff of the best collection... I will happily contribute to the medal fund for a sight of Reavely! Copy, I think, is what we need (OK, so it's a wish list). It's easy to look at an MS and make an index, but with an anxious owner hovering one cannot spend enough time to even abc much. Matt's strains ... definitely don't require an open-ended chanter. OK, thanks for that. Thanks to a damaged right elbow, I'm not very fluent on anything at present. some work before I get home Working out how to rake in all those tuition fees?? grin Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [1][7]http
[NSP] Re: Where hast thou been all the night?
Sound isn't a problem for me as (somehow) I have ABCNavigator set to play using something like a reedy violin ( I think it's set for harmonica) but I'm a little stuck on the tempo for this one (not that good reading the dots) and, when played, it raced away at a speed which I had no hope of matching on anything! Certainly not on the pipes or gurdy without losing a finger or two. I'm possibly used to seeing a Q value (?) in the header of abc to set the tempo. It opened at 100 but, at 30, it sounds a rather nice tune. Any suggestions as to the tempo (another well known tune that's at the same tempo would do as I really don't know that much about abc either) :-) Thanks, Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 7:07 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast thou been all the night? To John Julia Matt and all This has been a wonderful interchange and highly enjoyable save in one respect. The horrible midi noise made as my computer plays the examples. I can't be the only one who would love to hear the points made on the instrument(s) the tune(s) was/were developed for. A recording via an inexpensive mic directly into the computer would be a vast improvement on the tinny piano I've been listening to. Could there be a vault where examples are stored not just for people on this list but other pipers too? I realise some immediacy would be lost but it would be a wonderful resource once the discussion was over. Cheers Anthony --- On Fri, 5/11/10, Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: From: Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast thou been all the night? To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Date: Friday, 5 November, 2010, 16:01 On 5 Nov 2010, Gibbons, John wrote: Crawhall's tags... are harmonically as well as melodically different from Reavely, Exactly - which is why I think there's two possible sets there. the illegibilities in Crawhall seem to be mostly his fault... Was he noting this down in haste, I wonder? There are similarities in parts of the Clough MSS, where the writing is obviously that of Tom (3), but not the considered and legible stuff of the best collection... I will happily contribute to the medal fund for a sight of Reavely! Copy, I think, is what we need (OK, so it's a wish list). It's easy to look at an MS and make an index, but with an anxious owner hovering one cannot spend enough time to even abc much. Matt's strains ... definitely don't require an open-ended chanter. OK, thanks for that. Thanks to a damaged right elbow, I'm not very fluent on anything at present. some work before I get home Working out how to rake in all those tuition fees?? grin Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Totally agree. Information is great to have even if we don't act on it (yet). Please continue. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: cal...@aol.com To: theborderpi...@googlemail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:43 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night? My vote is that such conversations continue in front of the whole group. If anyone is uninterested, it takes only a moment to click next. And there are a lot of lurkers out here who are silent but interested, and are grateful for being allowed to eavesdrop on informed discussions. Thx, Alec In a message dated 11/4/2010 9:58:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, theborderpi...@googlemail.com writes: Before you read on - is anyone besides John Gibbons, Julia Say and myself interested in this? Seriously, please say so, I'd like to know, because if not, we can carry on the discussion privately. If anyone thinks the three of us are crazy, I would like to point out that I have been crazy for longer than them. I have refrained from reading Julia's and John's versions till I made mine public. I was very taken with this tune at the time of the second Bewick edition (1998) and used to play it a lot. I am pleased that (two) others also enjoy it. I note that it received zero attention until Richard York's hurdy-gurdy query, which is a sobering thought regarding the benefits of publication. You may need to add line breaks, I have just pasted my text as is. X:1 T:Where Hast Thou Been All The Night? C:R Reavely ms (strs 1-3) C:M Seattle (strs 5-8) Aug 1998 M:6/8 R:Air K:G e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dgf dgB|dgB c2e|dgf dgB|dgf d2e| dgf dgB|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dgf d2e| dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dgf d2e| dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e| d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|dgf d2e| d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e| d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
All you need to know: http://www.hurdygurdy.farmcom.net/front.html I actually play a flatback gurdy (not by this maker) from Germany made by Helmut Seibert.. There's something about drones.. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:37 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organistrum for another name, a description, and a good picture. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Gruar [phi...@gruar.clara.net] Sent: 02 November 2010 17:50 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Does this sound familiar to anyone else who knows more about this field of expertise? Yes. The symphony - more or less as you describe it, was a mediaeval version of the hurdy-gurdy. One of the best illustrations - of the big two-man version - is carvrd over the doorway of Santiago de Compostela cathedral. No time to write more just now - I'll post links and references later if anyone is interested, and unless someone else puts it all up here first! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
It's generally accepted that she played the hurdy gurdy. http://dl.tufts.edu/view_image.jsp?pid=tufts:MS004.002.054.DO01.00011 Hurdy gurdies were given to some to be able to make a living rather than going to the workhouse etc. That illustration is from 1851 (taken from an earlier daguerreotype) so she was still alive but, of course, unlikely to be taken from life (and we do all know how accurate newspapers, journals and books are, don't we). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:13 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Hi Anthony, Thanks for this suggestion, which does indeed seem logical. The Hurdy gurdy net group were talking about early names for the gurdy recently, and this is where Old Sarah came up. Mayhew, who was an experienced journalist who interviewed hundreds of street people, so ought to know what he talked about, called it a hurdy gurdy. There's a Scots reference in the 16th C to Cymphan, thought to be from the older symphony and that's one explanation. She was fairly old when she talked to him, and from the early repertoire she had she was possibly taught by an Irish or Scots musician, so a misremembered Cymphan type word may have become Cymbal. But I certainly wouldn't go to the stake on that! The old lady also talked about having to keep the works covered so that pennies punters threw didn't get in and damage them. She spoke of having to learn tunes, and mastering them over a few weeks at first, so it wasn't a barrel organ type hurdy gurdy; and the dulcimer is lacking in interior works, so I'm fairly happy going with the gurdy as we now know it - there are pictures of people playing them on London streets. Thanks all for tolerating this excursion outside the Land Of Smallpipe. Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 16:38, Anthony Robb wrote: On 31 Oct Richard York wrote lots including: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed Old Sarah a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the cymbal. Richard Can't help with the tunes I'm afraid but it might be that the instrument she calls the cymbal is in fact the cimbalom. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom. Good luck with your quest. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
Oops, of course a daguerreotype is a photograph so probably was accurate after all (red face). That's a hurdy gurdy she's holding regardless of what she called it. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:13 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Hi Anthony, Thanks for this suggestion, which does indeed seem logical. The Hurdy gurdy net group were talking about early names for the gurdy recently, and this is where Old Sarah came up. Mayhew, who was an experienced journalist who interviewed hundreds of street people, so ought to know what he talked about, called it a hurdy gurdy. There's a Scots reference in the 16th C to Cymphan, thought to be from the older symphony and that's one explanation. She was fairly old when she talked to him, and from the early repertoire she had she was possibly taught by an Irish or Scots musician, so a misremembered Cymphan type word may have become Cymbal. But I certainly wouldn't go to the stake on that! The old lady also talked about having to keep the works covered so that pennies punters threw didn't get in and damage them. She spoke of having to learn tunes, and mastering them over a few weeks at first, so it wasn't a barrel organ type hurdy gurdy; and the dulcimer is lacking in interior works, so I'm fairly happy going with the gurdy as we now know it - there are pictures of people playing them on London streets. Thanks all for tolerating this excursion outside the Land Of Smallpipe. Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 16:38, Anthony Robb wrote: On 31 Oct Richard York wrote lots including: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed Old Sarah a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the cymbal. Richard Can't help with the tunes I'm afraid but it might be that the instrument she calls the cymbal is in fact the cimbalom. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom. Good luck with your quest. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP and Hardanger Fiddle?
Hello all, I was wondering if anyone had any experience playing along with a hardanger fiddle? If so, any general advice, or suggestions on tunes that work well with the two instruments (from either tradition)? Thanks, Colin Everett To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Joe Huttons pipes?
Interesting information. I do recall that set coming up for sale (it made the news all the way here in Liverpool) and, in fact, I wrote to the society as I feared that Joe Hutton had passed away (they were the only ivory pipes I was aware of). He hadn't, of course and lived for some years after that. How interesting to know a little more about them after all these years. Thank you. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:15 PM Subject: [NSP] Joe Huttons pipes? Others will no doubt reply with much more information, but what little I know may be of interest. Julia will have all the historical information and can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can remember, Joe's ivory and silver pipes were made by Errington Thompson, a very good amateur maker, sometime around 1880. He was a professional man - architect or doctor I think. In the early nineteen-eighties, Denis Nesbitt, a distinguished professional cellist living at the time in North London bought an ivory and silver seventeen-key chanter in a Sotheby's sale (Graham Wells will confirm if I remember this correctly). This chanter was by John Baty of Wark-on-Tyne who had worked with Errington-Thompson on making pipes, and the chanter was identical to the one in Joe's set. The chanter needed a certain amount of restoration - nothing much more than cleaning and key re-padding, plus fitting a reed. Denis then commissioned me to make a set of six ivory and silver drones, stocks, bag, blowpipe etc to go with the chanter and turn it into a full set. The obvious thing was to copy Joe's set as closely as possible, which involved visiting Joe, photographing and measuring the drones, and of course I still have the photo's and drawings. With all due modesty I think I can say I produced a very beautiful set of pipes. When Denis died, the set was bought by one of the London-based pipers, and the last I heard was still playing well. If the owner reads this, he can reveal himself if he wishes! Philip - Original Message - From: Peter Morgan bogullie...@hotmail.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:36 PM Subject: [NSP] Joe Huttons pipes? Does anyone know what happened to Joe Hutton's Ivory pipes? Iv heard the name Errington mentioned, any info on the Errington connection would be much appreciated. Peter. __ Get a free e-mail account with Hotmail. Sign-up now. -- References Visible links Hidden links: 1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/L9890-4395TMP.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2833 - Release Date: 04/24/10 19:31:00
[NSP] Re: The Dark Island
A plague in all your households. Well, not quite (and I seem not to have received most of the posts for this topic) but the next best thing http://www.rampantscotland.com/songs/blsongs_dark.htm Anyone brave enough to listen to the mp3. Actually, I quite like it. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: The Dark Island Maybe a more topical one 'The Duck Island'? -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 11 April 2010 23:27 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] The Dark Island Bill Telfer wrote: Aye I've heard Ian Maclaughlan play it years ago at Auchtermuchty Festival (on the platform in the town market place) - a very nice a TMSA festival where people take over the square for dancing) and he announced it as The Dark Island. As often happens somebody has even given the tune words but as far as I remember they're probably better forgotten! Hello Bill This must have been post 1963. The old name only lasted five years (1958-1963). The power of television!!! It seems to have been a popular target for dodgy words over the years. Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Transposing
Well, I must admit, if I only played stuff that was in the correct key, I'd be playing very little. Not being very good at reading the dots, I play more by using the sol-fah method using my ear (obviously, I'm talking slower tunes here, ahem). I do this for all my instruments. The key I play it in is whatever key the instument plays in (although English Concertina tends to be in G, F or D). Unless there are vocals involved, I don't really worry. If it sounds nice, I play it. If it doesn't, I don't. Yeah, Dark Island is a nice example of drone clashing. Then again, it was written for one drone sound so I suppose that accounts for it. Usr the ones that sound best. (Joins Helen under the parapet) :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Helen Capes helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz To: cal...@aol.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 6:47 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Transposing If a tune sounds good on the pipes, I say, Go for it!. I have found that a tune can look as though it's going to be great, the key is playable, all seems fine, but the emphasis is wrong against the drones. So do the transposing then play and listen! I think a good example is 'Dark Island It sounds lovely on the pipes, but the drones clash. If playing it in G, I only play the D drones, (if I remember rightly.) Ok I will put my head back down below the parapet! Cheers H - Original Message - From: cal...@aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: [NSP] Transposing Here's a question I don't recall seeing discussed here: I played concertina for English Country Dancing for years, and have a lot of wonderful tunes in my head. I'd love to be able to play them on my NSP, but they are often in keys that I can't play in--and perhaps my pipes even can't. So my question is this: Does everyone transpose tunes so they can play them? Or is that considered bad karma, and I'll be given the stank eye by real players if I'm caught doing that? Thx Alec -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Noises from keys
Pure guesswork on my part but has the cotton bung become saturated with oil? I had some very unusual things happen when that occurred and I had a pool of oil in there. Only other thing I could suggest is to make sure the pads seat and lift off cleanly - and don't try and sneak the key off - lift it off smartly (half open holes can make funny noises). Sorry, that's all I can think of from my own experience. I'm sure lots of good suggestions will follow. Colin Hill. - Original Message - From: neihutch...@yahoo.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:03 AM Subject: [NSP] Noises from keys I am just starting to try and use the keys on my 7-key chanter. I'm having a bit of a random issue with the lower 3 keys, when i open them i sometimes get a high pitched squeak rather than the appropriate note. Does anyone have any idea why this might be? Cheers - Neil -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
Mine came with my pipes from Bill Hedworth and is plywood covered with green leatherette with metal corners. Mine's still fine and now in it's 36th year (made 1974 or thereabouts) although the leatherette has lifted on few corners over that time (easy to glue down again). It's been through the post a couple of times as well without problems (chanters and drones wrapped in bits of silk shirt - bought for 50p in a charity shop and contained in stout cardboard tubes). I have no idea if he made it himself or if he bought it somewhere. It'll outlast me :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:51 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: pipe cases On 16 Feb 2010, ch...@harris405.plus.com wrote: I've just bought a set of Uilleann pipes which was supplied with the case seen here: http://www.bagpipecase.com/ May be a little bigger than strictly necessary for a set of NSP, I've had one of these for several years. I bought it as a sample, intending possibly to buy and supply. At the time it was 60 something pounds. I saw John Bushby with one and it seemed like a good idea for those with multiple sets / several types of pipes.. It is very capacious (I've had up to 4 sets of drones, 6 chanters, all in tubes, and two sets of bellows in it), but relatively heavy (even when empty). It has lots of straps (shoulder / back pack / handles) and external pockets, so by evicting a couple of sets it's possible to carry camera, phone, lunch etc. There's also a compartment which takes A5 tunebooks well. It doesn't carry A4 or folders well so doesn't work as a filing system. There are external pockets for drinks etc. It can't be sat on or used as a music stand, but is a pretty robust soft case, if that makes sense. IIRC there was a considerable discount for buying 10 or more (cost went down to 40- something??) so in the unlikely event of being able to get buyers to co-operate it might be possible to bring the price per unit down to near gig bag level. I too have an outstanding order with Savage Hoy put in several years ago via Colin R, but nothing has materialised. (Nothing to do with Colin's efficiency - the guy at SH just hasn't been in touch). I know at one stage also, Barry was talking to Calton Cases of Aldershot, but nothing came of that either (IIRC might have been cost). I also have a hard (leatherette type covered plywood, I would think) case obtained via Colin R which comes from ...Pakistan, I think. It is cheap, sturdy and fairly standard box shape, but I personally have doubts about its longevity. The one I have is already showing scuff damage on its outer layer, despite not being used outside the house on more than a couple of occasions. But it was half the price of the bagpipecase one when I got it, so. Hope this helps Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Bellows
What problems are you having? Although you probably know more about it than me, I do remember being rather embarrassed when I had problems with my bellows after I did a little maintenance on them. I thought they were leaking and it turned out the valve was upside-down so not closing. As you suggest they are problematic only after having them fettled, maybe someone here could suggest a fix? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: pipe...@tiscali.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:50 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP Bellows Hi All, Not a discussion point more a cry for help!!! Having just had my pipes fettled after a few years of abuse I now find I have some problems with the bellows. Does anyone have a set of fairly standard bellows that they no longer use and would be willing to sell them? If not in the best of condition,providing they could be reasonably fettled , then I would be grateful for help. If anyone can help could you please contact me directly at pipe...@tiscali.co.uk Living in hope Guy Tindale To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the Guardian today....
OK, so how will I fit these 22-metre long drones into the stock? Will the instructions be in the next magazine? Still, they'll have their own supply of air so that will help! I must remember that, when fly tipping or taking part other anti-social behaviour, hearing the strains of the High Level from above means stop and hide :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anita Evans an...@evansweb.co.uk To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 2:20 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: the Guardian today Malcolm Craven wrote: Hi, What is B A E tuning. Should it be A E A Or E B E? I am confused a bit. I don't think they'll threaten the domestic market just in case you think I've gone quite quite mad http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/23/cctv-sky-police-plan-drones Anita -- Anita Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Piping - closure of Instrument section of VA
I haven't seen this mentioned here but we made noises (and still are) when the bagpipe museum faced something similar. The information on the petition page says: The V A are intending to place in long-term storage its collection of historic musical instruments, which is unparalleled in the UK. The reason for this destruction, given by a V A spokesman, is so that the gallery can be redesigned to show the fashion collections. Musical instruments have been part of the collection since its inception in 1851: the museum has received adverse comment on this plan from curators worldwide. The removal is to take place in Spring 2010, and is a short-term decision which will have long-term negative results for scholars and music lovers alike.. Although not strictly pipes-based, I feel it's a further step to downgrading our musical heritage and the importance of the tradition of music and thought those on this list may wish to sign. Several other music lists I am on have done so already so sorry if this is a repeat. If anyone would like to sign the petition, it's at: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/VandAchange/ Colin Hill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Warning: scam
In all fairness, they do describe it as: Product Description High Quality Content by WIKIPEDIA articles! They make no attempt to hide that fact although whether lifting articles from there and then binding them and selling them is legal, I don't know. Shows it pays to read the description though before parting with large sums of cash for what you can get free on the Internet (and, let's face it, the Wikpedia is always 100% accurate isn't it?) - (that was meant to be sarcastic, by the way). Good for you to point it out Matt, thanks (puts cheque book away). Colin Hill ,- Original Message - From: Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; NPS Discussion discuss...@northumbrianpipers.org.uk; bellowspipes bellowspi...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:35 AM Subject: [NSP] Warning: scam I found the following on Amazon for a hefty price - Music of Northumbria: Northumbria, Folk music, Border ballad, Northumbrian smallpipes, Bagpipes, Fiddle, The Ballad of Chevy Chase, Rapper sword, ... Bagpipe, Border pipes, Pastoral pipes (Paperback) by Frederic P. Miller (Editor), Agnes F. Vandome (Editor), John McBrewster (Editor) No customer reviews yet. Be the first. Was curious as I'd not heard of the authors or the publisher, alphascript - googled them and quickly learnt that the setup is a scam which recycles wikipedia articles and packages them as a plausible-ish looking book. Your own work may even be in there. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Interesting comments. As I said, I've used a few oils (usually flavour of the month on this list) over the past 38 years (since I got my set of pipes) and almond oil was always my favourite followed by pure lavender oil (both medicinal quality) although the latter resulted in some odd looks when I opened the case. I had no problems with either but used the almond oil for at least 25 years without any problems at all. As the years passed and ill-health made playing more difficult and therefore not as regular, I started having the problem of the (leather) pads sticking to the chanter when pressing the keys . The keys lifted, the pads stayed stuck to the chanter. I needed an alternative to almond oil. Using the liquid paraffin, I found that, even after a few months in the box untouched, the pads no longer stick and the pipes still glisten nicely. My pipes are lignum which may make a difference. Neatsfoot oil seemed to form a crust around the edges of the keys quite quickly (as it does around the neck of an opened bottle of the same when it dries out). I suppose that nothing will give perfect results if regular maintenance of the set isn't carried out. Maybe the answer lies in how often the set is played/maintained as suggested by others rather than a simple which oil is best. Colin Hill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Many chemists sell acetone by the bottle - at least they did a few years ago whilst I was modelling puppets from plastic wood :-) The nail varnish remover is quite a weak strength of it. The alternative is to get the remover, clean the brush with it and just empty the last dregs from the bottle by setting it upside down on a tissue (move often) and leave any residue in it and let it dry and harden. It won't mix with the oil and (if you used a coloured varnish) should any bits manage to come loose, you can see them (so change the oil). I'm now a convert to the liquid paraffin for oiling the pipes and pads (I've tried many other oils including lavender, almond, castor etc and nothing seems as good as the paraffin - no sticking pads etc or pads getting pulled off because they have stuck and no smell). I've used it for several years now . It also keeps the maintenance regular (sorry, couldn't help myself). For those not from the UK, liquid paraffin was used as a laxative and can still be purchased from a pharmacy - I got mine from Tesco but Lloyds pharmacy sells it as well). It has nothing to do with what you put in an oil lamp or stove etc. Here's the stuff. http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=1008storeId=90productId=325219langId=-1 I'm sure we'll get a plethora of other suggestions ;) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:58 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads Errmmm, no actually I got lots of sheets from an overhead projector and wiped it until or there again I'm just getting old and forgetful and meant acetone all the time. Whooops. Thanks, Francis. Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 12 Jan 2010, at 19:04, Richard York wrote: then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Hello Richard, That's what I did, though I think you meant acetone. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Sorry forgot to mention, pipe cleaners are very handy if you don't want to use the nail varnish brush method. They reach everywhere including the bore (via the holes) and into those hard to get places near the keys. It's pretty easy to get a tiny bottle for the oil. To avoid getting too much oil on the pads, try popping a little oil onto a slip of kitchen towel (the paper ones, of course) and just inserting it under the open pad, close the pad, open up again and remove the towel. Just the right amount. If you get too much oil in the bore it soaks into the cotton wool bung so remember to change it. Sodden bungs mess up the tuning (he says knowingly after ages of despair before some kind soul on this list put me right about wet bungs). Colin Hill Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Tom Childs tomspip...@hotmail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP oil for pipes and key pads Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
I'd go with that. Problem with Northumbrian is that it may appear that it refers to where the artist comes from (as in Colin Hill, Liverpudlian small-pipes player). ;-) Northumbrian piper may suggest a piper from Northumberland who plays bagpipes (any). Northumberland small-pipes player sounds good and accurate (maybe player is stretching it a little in my case). :-D Colin Hill - Original Message - From: inky adrian inky-adr...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS in the old days. Inky-adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
What a wonderful language we have. A small piper. Is that under a certain height then? I defence of things, I suppose that whatever we say will, to the uninitiated, cause confusion. Scottish piper? A piper from Scotland or a player of the Scottish bagpipes? How about small pipes of Northumbria player then :-) I suppose the sentence should really start with the word player. A wee old-fashioned perhaps but clearer. How could you misunderstand Player of the Northumbrian small-pipes. It's the old I know a man with a wooden leg called Bill - really, what's the other one called?. It's knowing what the adjective describes, isn't it and that Northumbrian small-pipes is the name of the instrument? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:48 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Strange, isn't it? You're right, but I can't recollect ever seeing the Scotland bagpipes mentioned, nor yet the France bagpipes. Yours in puzzlement, but Happy New Year anyway, Richard. P.S. Not being very tall, I suppose I'm a small piper, or at least aspiring eventually to become one. colin wrote: I'd go with that. Problem with Northumbrian is that it may appear that it refers to where the artist comes from (as in Colin Hill, Liverpudlian small-pipes player). ;-) Northumbrian piper may suggest a piper from Northumberland who plays bagpipes (any). Northumberland small-pipes player sounds good and accurate (maybe player is stretching it a little in my case). :-D Colin Hill - Original Message - From: inky adrian inky-adr...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS in the old days. Inky-adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP item on BBC Radio 4
Must be the cold weather. It plays havoc with corns. Haven't seen as much since I watched (by accident) Oklahoma. Colin Hill PS Thanks for the big grin in brought to my face :) - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 10:44 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP item on BBC Radio 4 On 1 Jan 2010, at 22:30, Matt Seattle wrote: I don't suppose anyone wants to hear my theories about Holey Ha'penny? Francis Yes please Hi Matt and Richard, Yes . . . this is the tune earlier known by the title 'Speed the Clough'. It was originally recorded at 45 rpm on an unusually long chanter but issued by HMV at 78 rpm to simulate virtuosity. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: From notation to music
Phew, what a lot of responses. Going back to the reading and writing aspect, just being able to read what's on the page won't make anyone a good actor will it? There's something extra that makes the difference between a player who can reproduce what's written down exactly and HOW they play it. Two players, same notes, different performance. On the subject of classical players, I do feel one should take into account that, when playing in an orchestra, doing one's own thing may not be a good idea :-) A time and a place for everything. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: anth...@robbpipes.com; j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music I actually agree with all this, but I for one have received the reply no, we're trying to get away from that when I asked a well-know Irish musician if he could read music. I have also heard a well-known singer dismissing classical players with the phrase the buggers couldn't do it if it wasn't written down. These people, both of who I highly respect, can remain anonymous, as I am talking about my experience and not pointing fingers at others. Peace C __ From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:32 PM To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk; BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: From notation to music What a long, long way we've wandered from my initial point! No one can take any pride at all in not having a skill and I for one know no by ear leaner who would not wish to add the skill of sight-reading to their box of repertoire-expanding tools. For many it simply wasn't an option. They picked up the tunes from listening to what was available and pleasing to them. The lack of such a useful skill as sight-reading forced them to listen over and over again to the style of music played and gave them an insight into the music hidden beyond the dots. It is the absorption of the music into their very being which gives this music, often simple on the surface, it's complexity, vitality and beauty. Traditional music has been successfully passed on by listening for many generations. This is not beyond any musician who wants to aspire to it. It does, however, require more discipline from a dots reader because tunes can be quickly, nay instantly, accessible to them. The worry is that the more people who do this, without lots and lots of listening to what generations before have worked at and left us, the more we will be passing on a watered down version of the tradition. Stewart Hardy is a truly gifted musician by any standard. His sight reading is impeccable. Jimmy Little wouldn't know where to start with a page of dots. The one thing that they share is the amount of listening they do to take in every ounce of life and bounce from our music and then give it back with their own unique surprises and turns. It is unmistakeably part of the tradition but not slavishly copied and reproduced. Dots on their own can never pass on this feel for the music. No one is (snobbishly) damning sight-readers per se. We are saying there is a heirarchy of approaches in traditional music; the most important is listening (over and over again -even if this doesn't mean actually learning by ear) then turn, once the music has been absorbed, to the dots for reference, repertoire expansion, resurrection of old manuscript tunes etc. When done this way around, each and every one of us involved in the tradition benefits and so our blessings (not condemnation!) be upon you. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 2/12/09, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 16:02 John: I haven't damned 'classical musicians' at all. I wasn't accusing you personally of damning classical musicians. Sorry if it came over that way. Some people, including some who should no better, do damn classical musicians, however, and even take a pride in their own inability to read the dots. Inverted snobbery if you ask me. Btw, when I used the term damn I was merely referring back to Sheila Bridges' contribution, in which she wrote and it seems that many who are damning the classically trained on this nsp ... Best c To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: From notation to music
Of course, I think the clue is in the phrase reading music. Nobody would raise an eyebrow at someone listening to a speech or play and writing down the words - punctuation and all, would they? I presume that being able to read music (rather than following the dots as best we can and filling in the spaces with our ears) should mean just that. Many of us can follow the dots (easier for us than most musicians as, generally, we only have either one or two sharps in the scale) but fewer, I think, can actually READ them as well as we would like, Maybe on a par with getting by with French or German whilst on holiday. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Mike and Enid Walton mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: From notation to music A friend of a friend, who was a trained musician, once amazed me - I played a tune, she (after checking one note if I remember) had to write the dots out, which she did perfectly, before she played it. I was very impressed but confused as it's completely the opposite of the way I work. She was a violinist (not piper, definitely not fiddler) by the way [Probably my first contribution for years] Mike - Original Message - From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 4:48 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music Interesting thread. As one who plays by getting the dots to sound like the tune I have heard, some of the comments remind me of something in my own family which may clarify some of the problems. Both my mother and her aunt were excellent pianists. The aunt, in particular, having achieved many certificates for her playing. It was interesting, however, to find that she couldn't carry a tune for toffee. Without the dots, she couldn't really play anything at all. With the dots, anything you liked - and as written. My mum could do both but preferred to play by ear which she could do with quite complex tunes. You can guess who was the most popular at parties :-) Most of us, I'm sure, do the latter. Then again, the Chinese whisper syndrome plays a part in tunes changing over the years when transmitted aurally. Is that a good or a bad thing? Of course, it may be good to have an original transcript for historical purposes but, then again, how many traditional tunes have that? As I said, an interesting thread this. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 4:25 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music Matt has said: Any system of notation relies on a culture which knows how that particular music is played, just as any written language relies on people knowing how to pronounce it (greiss / grace etc.). The problems Anthony highlights are well known - use dots if you know how the music sounds, otherwise they are a hindrance. The trouble with tunebooks in simplified notation - eg jigs in straight quavers, or notating rants and reels identically, is that people from different cultural backgrounds, or even nearer/further from the Border, will have very different ideas as to how to play the tunes. Ideally the best way of understanding 'how a tune really goes' is to listen to a good traditional performance. This is why recordings from traditional sources are so important, and contact with live traditional performers even more so. But some literalist note-players - particularly if they are classically trained, and/or far from Northumberland - tend to believe that if a jig is notated in straight quavers, it 'should' sound in equal straight quavers; or if a hornpipe is notated in dotted quavers and semiquavers, the dotted quavers 'should' take 3 times as long as the semi's. The only way to explain these aspects of style to someone who takes notation literally is probably if the NPS or someone publish a style guide with examples. Breathnach and others have done this for Irish music - it was Breathnach's little book and CRE volumes 1 and 2 that taught me what I should listen for. Stuart Hardy has started a similar job for Northumbrian music with his book on jigs - but the job isn't finished yet. Rants, reels and hornpipes, anyone? John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 04 November 2009 11:24 To: gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: schei greiss Notereader makes Hornpipes sound fairly good in 21/16, with dotted and undotted quavers alternating. Do you mean 20/16, John? Any system of notation relies on a culture which knows how
[NSP] Re: Radio Mics and channel 69
Don't radio mics used in small locations (e.g. church hall etc) just work on a local signal (i.e. mic to amp - like a baby minder thing)? Apart from interference issues, wouldn't they still work like the old local CB radios - my walkie talkies still work even though they are on the obsolete (and probably illegal now) frequency. Are the channel 69 mics transmitted from a central source? As you gather, I'm not that clued up about these things. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: [NSP] Radio Mics and channel 69 Not instantly an obvious smallpipes issue, I realise, but enough pipers here are in bands or other organisations using radio mics to make this worth passing on, I hope. Monday's Radio 4 PM programme reported that the Gov't, in their Ofcom hat, are selling off the radio frequencies used in the UK by all radio mics, including loop systems, known as channel 69. They're going to re-assign different frequencies for this use, but existing equipment won't work on them, so will need replacing. To be really helpful they aren't telling which frequencies they'll be making available instead, or when they'll be doing it. They are apparently generously offering to pay for the equipment thus rendered useless, but only the value of the stuff at the time, not its replacement value. .. anyone want to guess the market value of a dead radio mic? I know the mics aren't re-tunable, I don't know about the receivers - we haven't got one yet. There's an article I found earlier today online at [1]web.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/17/ofcom-channel-69-rad io-frequencies So bands, churches, concert halls, theatres, amateur dramatic groups, schools, and anyone else using this equipment is going to be out of pocket, and inconvenienced too. Please complain! Best wishes, Richard. -- References 1. web.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/17/ofcom-channel-69-radio-frequencies To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Power of Positive Thinking
How nice to have a little humour again. On a positive note, I shall now be operating my gentle summer breeze emulator whilst ensuring my selected harmonic pipes are, indeed, in harmony. A gentle squeeze of the cuddlesac and away we go. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: amble skuse amble.sk...@googlemail.com To: Paul Gretton i...@gretton-willems.com Cc: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu; i...@ihug.co.nz; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 4:02 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: The Power of Positive Thinking at least as pipers you don't have to worry about tonguing, just fingering, what with today's child protection laws i'm careful teaching flute to children with this terminology. 2009/10/20 Paul Gretton [1]i...@gretton-willems.com Surprisingly, even after 30 years of living in Holland and mentioning that I'm a piper, I've only ever once had anybody produce the relevant pun! Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Sent: 20 October 2009 12:38 To: [4]...@ihug.co.nz; [5]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: The Power of Positive Thinking Anyone know what pijpen means in Dutch? (I do). c To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:i...@gretton-willems.com 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:i...@ihug.co.nz 5. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Want to find out when you can get an iPhone with Orange? Register at http://www.orange.co.uk/iphone and we'll let you know.
[NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
In my blissful ignorance, I had always assumed that a cut and dry dolly was the last sheaf from the field (mind you, I used to make corn dollies so may have just latched onto that, of course). I'm quite surprised that it wasn't that simple. Amazing that the source has been long forgotten now. Barren whores, wrinkled old ladies?Maybe the cigar IS just a cigar after all. ;-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: richard.hea...@tiscali.co.uk To: discuss...@northumbrianpipers.org.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:51 PM Subject: [NSP] Cut and Dry Dolly Hello, Heslop’s “Northumberland Words” (1892 and 1893-4), a glossary of words used in Northumberland and on Tyneside, has several references to the word “dolly”. I give these below. Claydolly – the woman worker in a brickfield, who carries the brick from the moulder’s table to the open field where it is to be dried Cloot-dolly – a doll made of cloth Dolly – a clothes washing stick, made with feet but otherwise like a poss-stick Dolly – a contrivance attached to a chainmaker’s anvil for pressing the link after it is welded. A machine for punching iron Dolly – a woman’s name (given by Heslop in three references) Kairn-dolly – the kairn baby Kirn-dolly – the last handful of corn cut, dressed up to resemble a female figure Pot-dolly – an earthenware of porcelain doll Speaking purely personally, and without further evidence at this stage, the definition that most appeals to me is that relating to a “kirn-dolly” – the last corn to be cut which is then dressed as a female. This event appears to be a suitable cause for celebration and just the sort of event to name a tune after; further the “cut and dried” part of the name appears consistent with the cutting and drying of corn (or other cereals, perhaps). The test application of good old Occam’s Razor may support this straightforward explanation. Richard Protect your PC with 50% off Norton Security - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/securepc ___ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
Can someone please enlighten me on something as I am obviously too old and doddering to understand. Is this particular list an open list for matters pertaining to piping in general or only as it concerns the Society? For the life of me, I can't see the problem with self-advertising provided that it is to do with piping. Presumably, If I had heard of a piping course and then written a post hey pipers, there's a course being held at That would be piping news surely and quite acceptable? Please explain the difference to me between a course held by the Society and one held by an individual as far as this (open) list is concerned (if it is open). Many people on this list are not members of the Society (hence the opening of the dirty laundry alternative list). Please inform us as to whether this list is to discuss piping in all it's aspects or only those aspects that the Society have a hand in. I think we need this clarification. If it is, indeed, NOT an open list but one being run for and on behalf of the Society, I think that needs pointing out notwithstanding the fact that the Society runs it and benefits from it (by spreading the word that it exists). If it IS a Society bases list only, maybe a change of name should be considered. Again, if it's an open list, maybe we shouldn't have details of the Society's contributions either (to make it fair). You can't have it both ways. An open list or a NPS list? That would, I think, help many of us to understand what is acceptable and what is not. If it IS a specific NPS list, maybe it should be restricted to members. Maybe a truly open list (such as the English Bagpipes list on Yahoo) should be started as an alternative to those who wish to discuss ALL aspects of piping and where the news of a course on piping would be accepted as news regardless of who was running it? Colin Hill (Life Member of NPS since around 1972/3) - Original Message - From: rosspi...@aol.com To: neiltaver...@btinternet.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available No problem as you are doing it as a group activity and there is no conflict with the NPS who I am sure welcomes it. CR -Original Message- From: Neil Tavernor neiltaver...@btinternet.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:09 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available And if (nsp dartmouth) is only for material sanctioned by the NPS, why did we need (NPS discussion). And can I advertise the Manchester group Pipers' day (3rd October) run and risk taken by individuals (no financial support from the NPS) on the (NPS discusion) list. Well I'm going to anyway. Neil - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Oh, for goodness' sake! Francis On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefisher @aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th – Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel in Whitley Bay. Tutors for the week include Andy May, Chris Ormston, Chris Evans. Plus other guest tutors and performers. Limited accommodation for non-playing partners. Some non-residential playing places will be available. Costs: Tuition (over 5 days), events, outings etc. Includes lunch, tea and coffee – £230 per player (individual lessons may be available at extra cost) Accommodation – BB £140 - £245 for 7 nights (depending on level of facilities chosen) Evening meals at participants’ expense Part-week bookings will be considered. For further details and an application form contact: Susan Craven 166 Plessey Road, BLYTH, NE2land NE24 3JA 07764 483595 suzefis...@aol.com AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
- Original Message - From: rosspi...@aol.com To: neiltaver...@btinternet.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available No problem as you are doing it as a group activity and there is no conflict with the NPS who I am sure welcomes it. CR -Original Message- From: Neil Tavernor neiltaver...@btinternet.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:09 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available And if (nsp dartmouth) is only for material sanctioned by the NPS, why did we need (NPS discussion). And can I advertise the Manchester group Pipers' day (3rd October) run and risk taken by individuals (no financial support from the NPS) on the (NPS discusion) list. Well I'm going to anyway. Neil - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Oh, for goodness' sake! Francis On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefisher @aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th – Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel in Whitley Bay. Tutors for the week include Andy May, Chris Ormston, Chris Evans. Plus other guest tutors and performers. Limited accommodation for non-playing partners. Some non-residential playing places will be available. Costs: Tuition (over 5 days), events, outings etc. Includes lunch, tea and coffee – £230 per player (individual lessons may be available at extra cost) Accommodation – BB £140 - £245 for 7 nights (depending on level of facilities chosen) Evening meals at participants’ expense Part-week bookings will be considered. For further details and an application form contact: Susan Craven 166 Plessey Road, BLYTH, NE2land NE24 3JA 07764 483595 suzefis...@aol.com AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
May I please apologise for filling mailboxes by hitting reply all and not removing the individual names and just sending one copy to the list, sorry. Colin Hill (told you I was old) :-) - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: 'Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:02 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Makes a lot more sense than some stuff people have been sending lately! -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anita Evans Sent: 13 August 2009 18:50 To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available tim rolls BT wrote: --===AVGMAIL-00EC37ED==Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg?rt; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: AVG certification No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.53/2299 - Release Date: 08/12/09 18:12:00 --===AVGMAIL-00EC37ED===-- Hi, Is anyone else having problems reading Tim's posts? I copied this from the list FAQ in case it helps: To get rid of those funny character codes you have to eliminate 'quoted-printable' from your messages. Usually there is a place to choose how the message is formatted - plain-text, html, rtf, etc, and a place to choose how the letters are encoded - plain-text, base64, or quoted-printable. The latter may be under an 'advanced' button somewhere. Plain-text works more smoothly with the lute (nsp) list then quoted-printable. Base64 may work, but sometimes it appears as a solid block of random letters. -- Anita Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
Thanks Richard. That's what I had presumed so as the original post was information to do with piping it was quite valid in my eyes (whether anyone makes money from it is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned). Nice and open rather than being underhand and asking someone else to post the information. Why all the fuss then? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard Shuttleworth rshuttlewo...@sympatico.ca To: neiltaver...@btinternet.com; rosspi...@aol.com; colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:51 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Dear Colin Hill, The NSP dartmouth list has nothing to do with the Northumbrian Pipers' Society other than the fact that many Society members post to this list. It is run out of Dartmouth College by a very patient and long-suffering chap called Wayne. Anyone can join the list and post any piping relevant topic that they feel would be of interest to other list members. Richard Colin (Hill) wrote: Can someone please enlighten me on something as I am obviously too old and doddering to understand. Is this particular list an open list for matters pertaining to piping in general or only as it concerns the Society? For the life of me, I can't see the problem with self-advertising provided that it is to do with piping. Presumably, If I had heard of a piping course and then written a post hey pipers, there's a course being held at That would be piping news surely and quite acceptable? Please explain the difference to me between a course held by the Society and one held by an individual as far as this (open) list is concerned (if it is open). Many people on this list are not members of the Society (hence the opening of the dirty laundry alternative list). Please inform us as to whether this list is to discuss piping in all it's aspects or only those aspects that the Society have a hand in. I think we need this clarification. If it is, indeed, NOT an open list but one being run for and on behalf of the Society, I think that needs pointing out notwithstanding the fact that the Society runs it and benefits from it (by spreading the word that it exists). If it IS a Society bases list only, maybe a change of name should be considered. Again, if it's an open list, maybe we shouldn't have details of the Society's contributions either (to make it fair). You can't have it both ways. An open list or a NPS list? That would, I think, help many of us to understand what is acceptable and what is not. If it IS a specific NPS list, maybe it should be restricted to members. Maybe a truly open list (such as the English Bagpipes list on Yahoo) should be started as an alternative to those who wish to discuss ALL aspects of piping and where the news of a course on piping would be accepted as news regardless of who was running it? Colin Hill (Life Member of NPS since around 1972/3) - Original Message - From: rosspi...@aol.com To: neiltaver...@btinternet.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available No problem as you are doing it as a group activity and there is no conflict with the NPS who I am sure welcomes it. CR -Original Message- From: Neil Tavernor neiltaver...@btinternet.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:09 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available And if (nsp dartmouth) is only for material sanctioned by the NPS, why did we need (NPS discussion). And can I advertise the Manchester group Pipers' day (3rd October) run and risk taken by individuals (no financial support from the NPS) on the (NPS discusion) list. Well I'm going to anyway. Neil - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Oh, for goodness' sake! Francis On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefisher @aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th – Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
I'm, glad someone else aid it first. I wasn't aware that this particular list was only for NPS events and news. I thought it was a general list for anyone interested in any aspect of the pipes. So, if a course is being run and ISN'T held by the NPS we can't read it/post it etc? This puerile twaddle has got to stop before we all leave the list and, the way it's going, the Society too. Please put personal feeling aside and talk pipes and piping. If non-society events can't be discussed, what's the point of us non-Northeasteners bothering to belong to the list. I certainly can't get to Newcastle for an event (too far, too expensive, too ill to travel that distance). OK, if them's the rules How about starting a NEW list where we can discuss ANYTHING to do with piping then? I would agree, however, that this topic would not be permitted in the discussion list (which is for members only). I fail to see how a general, public list (not linked to the NPS as such) can disallow private courses, tutoring, pipe sales etc. I know that certain society members consider themselves a bit of a clique. Most of us don't. We love the pipes (whether we play or not) and enjoy talking about them. I would be most interested to read about, say, KT doing a concert here. Apoplectic fits from many members I suppose. Very sad. This list used to be very open (and I've been here for a long time as well) and honest. Now it's a point-scoring forum. I no longer look forward to reading the mails as I know what's coming. Sorry but I'm really getting fed up with reading the snide remarks these days (plus most is lost on me as I don't know the people concerned). Bah, Humbug... Colin Hill
[NSP] Re: Transposing music
Whichever way you do it, you are still going to have to write it down somewhere. Many music programs allow you to enter in the notes, transpose and then print them out but it would be just as easy for you to type in the transposed version and print it. As far as I know, there's nothing that scans sheet music and then presents it as an editable score. What form is it in at present? To transpose and print, you have to first find a way of entering it into a PC and playing the notes on a virtual piano etc can end up with a very odd score indeed. Music editors are very precise, musicians are not :) Unless it's a concerto, hand copying is probably the best bet or ABC, convert to midi, transpose and print out. Plenty of stuff out there to do that. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Christopher Gregg chrisdgr...@gmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:12 PM Subject: [NSP] Transposing music I am looking for a way to transpose some duet parts from G down to the key of F without having to wrie it all out by hand. Any suggestions? Chris Gregg -- Note new email address [1]chrisdgr...@gmail.com [2]http://www.tuneit.ca -- References 1. mailto:chrisdgr...@gmail.com 2. http://www.tuneit.ca/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Happy Hours
It was written by Jimmy Shand (cough cough) but see below. :-) The tune has been recorded as a polka, although Scottish accordion player Jimmy Shand recorded the tune in the late 1930's where it was described as a foxtrot on the record label (Beltona BL 2382). The melody (as Plaisance Fox) previously had currency in France as part of Emile Vacher's musette repertoire, and, indeed, the composition is attributed to Vacher Peyrennin, who composed it in 1926. It is perhaps Shand (or his record company) that renamed it Happy Hours. From http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/HAA_HAP.htm Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Dally, John john.da...@hmhpub.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:20 PM Subject: [NSP] Happy Hours Andy May's new CD is full of great music. I've listened to it over and over again ever since I got my hands on it a couple of weeks ago. One tune sticks out, Happy Hours, which Andy writes he picked up from the playing of Billy Pigg. Andy slips a very Piggish embellishment in the second and third times through the tune, which some might consider improper NSP technique. It works for me. The tune appears on THE BORDER MINSTREL recording, but, relevant to another recent discussion on the news group, Andy takes his time with the tune, getting a lovely lift out of it. Anyway, I am curious why this tune does not appear in the wonderful book on Billy Pigg and his music written by Adrian and Julia. The tune appears to have been played by many Scottish dance bands, including Jimmy Shand's. Some of these bands toured the countryside of north Northumberland. Did Billy Pigg pick up the tune from Shand's or another Scottish dance band? Did the tune originate on the continent, perhaps France? I found it listed on a French accordion recording, and also on youtube played by a French box player. Does anyone know the composer of Happy Hours? This leads to my main question, which is, how much of an influence have Scottish dance bands had on Northumbrian pipers and music? Billy is often credited, or blasted, for bringing in Scottish pipe tunes and ornaments. The most extravagant embellishments that Billy (and also Andy for that matter) employs are rarely if ever used by Highland pipers. I don't play piano accordion, but it seems as likely if not more so that the Scottish repertoire and style that Billy is often credited or blamed for may have been the influence of Scottish accordion players, rather Highland pipers. Thanks, John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: ear-learners vs note-learners
I can relate to this. I play by ear and, if using dots, use them as a guide where the ear fails a little (oh, it's THAT note) and learn tunes from what I am playing rather than what's on the page. Even at 59, I am pleased to say that, eventually, once the tune is in their, it still stays. The odd thing is that if I'm unsure of a tune and then have to go back to the dots, they don't make sense until I hear myself playing a snippet I recognise and then it all comes back. I have tried to learn the dots for years but still can't get all that's contained in them - more just the actual notes rather than the phrasing etc until I can hear someone else playing the tune and then it falls into place. Dot illiteracy, I suppose. :( Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard Evans rich...@evansweb.co.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:17 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: ear-learners vs note-learners Richard Hensold wrote: This is a very interesting topic, but the thread that followed AR's post seemed to miss the point a bit. It's becoming an accepted notion that ear-learners (people who started out playing music entirely by ear, and only started reading music years later, if at all) think about/experience/play music in a fundamentally different way than note-learners (people who were taught to read music concurrently with being taught their instruments), Can note-learners learn to play like ear-players? I think so, but I'm still working on what methods work best. I tend to analyze everything and do lots of directed listening, and while this is very good at helping to hear new things, it's sort of counter-intuitive to think that analyzing something will help you eventually arrive at a more intuitively-musical way of playing. Comments, anyone? A very important issue particularly for organisers of playing groups. I run a small monthly piping session- most of the players are what Dick describes as 'note-learners' but I was an ear-learner and learned to read music later. If a new piece of sheet music is passed around the note-learners can generally play it immediately, possibly in a mechanical sort of way but I struggle badly until I have heard it several times, by which time the note-learners are ready for something else. I need to know the shape of the tune by hearing it, not just from the dots. If I play to the group, I interpret the tune as I see fit and I have had the response 'but you're not playing what's written'. In a more formal workshop I will always teach at least one tune by ear but the relief is obvious when the dots come out! There is a significant gulf here and the trick is to try not to let it spoil the fun whichever angle you come from. Group playing is of course a bit of a special case since everybody has to keep together and with more than about three or four players I think it's often not really very musical. This is fine when playing in private, as long as everybody is aware of the limitations, but if there is an audience then there is a problem. One odd personal point is that over recent years I have become more reliant on the dots and less able to memorise a new tune, which I regret, and I think this is due to too much music reading. Cheers Richard -- Richard Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
That's the last one I got as well. The new member's list appears just as quiet as well. Perhaps we've all run out of tubs to thump :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Dave S david...@pt.lu To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now Is it really this dead after the what me mail ? or has a lurgy got settled Dave S Wayne Cripps wrote: I should also add that the NSP mail list can no longer transmit computer viruses. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00
[NSP] Re: Alternative/extra NPS discussion list
Quite the opposite. Roll up, roll up. Join the society and get all the fun of the fair :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Ian Carol Bartlett (home account) i...@ihug.co.nz To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Alternative/extra NPS discussion list Likewise - now all my fun is spoiled - I so enjoyed watching the exponents combine gymnastics and dance - so many flip flops and rants performed together in such a short space of time!!! The award for artistic merit must go to the targets who gracefully remained silent controlled in their performances. 10's all round to them. Cheers Ian Bartlett Auckland New Zealand - Original Message - From: Dave S david...@pt.lu To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:11 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Alternative/extra NPS discussion list That's a bugger, now us out here won't get to see them over there doin it to the rest over wherever TIC Dave To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipes programme
Thank you. I found that a really good listen. Why can't we have stuff like this on the radio now? Shame you didn't get the AA stuff from Pebble Mill as well. :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: pipers list nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 3:21 PM Subject: [NSP] Pipes programme Whilst sorting out some cassettes, I came across this BBC programme about NSP, broadcast about 20 years ago, I think. I can't claim it is of huge interest but it does include the curiosity of a song with Burl Ives accompanied by Jack Armstrong, recorded in Hollywood, a peculiar bit of NSP history. The intervening decades have made have made our pipes far more publically familiar than when this item was recorded: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=09ff1cf99500a89441446e35a78dc463e04e75f6e8ebb871 Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NPS President and more.
This seems to be getting out of hand. If I'm correct, there was a decision taken in committee to which the chair objected and, as a result, resigned. Is there nothing in place where a contentious issue may be placed before the members or that an EGM could be called for? I've been is situations where this has happened and, after a vote by the members, all has settled down with those unable to accept the ruling deciding that they would be forever at odds with the rest of the committee and have resigned their post. That's their prerogative The EGM can give an opportunity for all sides to discuss the problem in an open manner. Discussions behind closed doors often result in whisperings and suspicion. Even when it's not called for in the rules, open discussions with members is often a good idea. We do, after all, vote people into the positions and can also vote them out again (or at least not vote for them again). At the moment we are hearing bits of things which, to my mind, smacks of infighting and personal grudges ranging from I'm not playing any more to if you don't like it, tough, we don't need you. This isn't doing any good at all. Sometimes it's too late to announce that a decision has been taken and just maybe (when politics can seem to take a part, for instance) it may be appropriate to involve all the members in a vote or at least to ask their opinion first (don't governments have enough of a problem with this?). Whilst I realise that the committee is voted in to take these decisions, there may be occasions when a simple committee majority just isn't enough. A simple poll of the members would, I think, have been a good idea. We run the severe risk of alienating sections of our membership here and we need also to remember that the membership covers a rather wide area with some unable to attend meetings either through distance, cost or health reasons. Has the society considered a proxy vote for these people? If this matter isn't resolved in an open and public way, I can see a fragmenting of the society into two or more camps. We must, I think, put our own personal selves aside and think PIPES and what is best for PIPES. Innuendo and gossip isn't what we want to hear. maybe a publishing of the minutes of the meeting concerned would help? Without getting a concise record of what was said and done, we are forced to glean what we can from emails. That's not good and will totally rely on how vehement or eloquent the writer may be. Let's have it all out in the open (isn't that what minutes are for???). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Dave Shaw d...@daveshaw.co.uk To: annsess...@yahoo.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: NPS President I would like to support the views of Ann Sessoms and Francis wood as they reflect my own but are so much more eloquently put. There seems to be an orchestrated Gadarene rush towards what is essentially a vote of no confidence in the elected committee. Where will it all end if they take the hump and resign en masse? Dave Shaw Dave Shaw, Northumbrian and Scottish Smallpipes, Irish Pipes and SHAW Whistles www.daveshaw.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NPS President and more.
Yes, I am aware that minutes are available upon request. I was suggesting that, in this particular case and for reasons of clarity, that they should be made available (say on line and maybe password protected) so that those of us who are not within the inner circle could get a clearer reflection of what actually happened - on the presumption that it was all minuted, of course and nothing pertinent was off the record. That may stem any rash urges to take the matter further as may have been suggested by questions asked. It seems odd that a simple resignation on health grounds would stir up so much kafuffle and leads to a suspicion that there was more to it - without suggesting that health grounds did not contribute, of course. I do remember some details of a bypass some time back, I think and the Colins on this list ain't getting any younger :). It was only a suggestion so that decisions can be made on facts, not hearsay and personal vendettas. After all, we want to stay a coherent and useful society, do we not? The last thing we want is any hint of a cover-up or misinformation. I personally don't really have an axe to grind over who you choose as I don't know enough about the role and who would be best to fill it. Some societies and charities have some very odd presidents and patrons anyway and most that I know or have some connection with select someone who seems important and often a very tenuous connection with the aims of the society/charity . At least we do seem to be looking at people who have some connection with piping so that's good. I do think that we should be looking at a 21C solution to communications though. Waiting for a newsletter isn't ideal in the days of instant messaging and snail mail is expensive. If nothing else, maybe this debate will open up a new communications channel. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NPS President and more. On 23 May 2009, colin wrote: If I'm correct, there was a decision taken in committee to which the chair objected and, as a result, resigned. The chairman accepted the vote of the meeting. Colin R resigned on the advice of his doctor. With a serious heart condition one does not ignore that advice lightly. there may be occasions when a simple committee majority just isn't enough. A simple poll of the members would, I think, have been a good idea. I suggested to the committee that suggestions be sought from the membership via the newsletter and I would have liked to have had a membership wide vote on a shortlist, in the interest of openness, but the committee majority thought these ideas inappropriate in view of the rules. maybe a publishing of the minutes of the meeting concerned would help? Copies of the minutes of any committee meeting are available to any member on request. This has been the case for many years and was reiterated in the newsletter a year or so ago. Julia Say NPS Hon Sec To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Colin Ross
Thank you for putting into word what I was thinking. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:55 PM Subject: [NSP] Colin Ross Dear All What a shame Colin Ross has stood down from the chairmanship of the society in these circumstances. Colin I do not always see eye to eye about some things, but the fact remains that his devotion to, and knowledge of piping, and pipes-making remain unsurpassed. After over 40 years of absolute commitment to our cause I would have thought he'd have been an obvious contender for the Presidency of the Society. Is this me being totally naive? I feel an opportunity to recognise the contribution of one of the giants of the Northumbrian piping world has been missed. As aye Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps
I come out with this one a few times every year on this subject. :) Does no harm to repeat it again as, for me, it puts things into perspective. More years ago than I care to remember, there was an excellent TV documentary in which the classical violinist Yehudi Menuhin met with an old Shetland fiddler (can't remember his name, sorry - big tall chap with receding hair and a winning smile and twinkle in his eyes - I think he was in his 80s then) and they discussed the instrument and played each others favourite tunes etc. Interestingly, the Shetland fiddler was able to play classical quite well but poor Yehudi had a terrible time getting any life into the traditional tunes at all (very precise and mechanical) the fiddler was very patient with him but it looked like a master teaching a novice. Same instrument but what a difference. many of the nuances for the fiddling were, of course, no-no's for Yehudi. Nobody could possibly claim that these two were not masters of the violin but both styles and interpretation of the dots were very different as was their method of playing (vibrato, bowing etc). This discussion does remind me of it each time it comes around. Colin Hill From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk; gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:43 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: nps James Galway playing tin whistle used to be alarming, though the Chieftains taught him a better, more fluid, style subsequently. Only heard him doing so once and this was back in the early Cretaceous or thereabouts. Your description of the better style as more fluid suggests that he fell into the same trap as classical violinist when presented with a folk tune - they tend to play in a clipped martelé fashion (more suited to, say, Vivaldi or Mozart, their differences nothwithstanding) rather than letting it roll. This might be similar to the kind of overdone staccato that the unexpurgated Fenwick was warning against. The much maligned Kathryn Tickell is a model of fluidity (but can shell peas with the best of them when she so chooses). c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps
Maybe we are heading backwards to the days of playing and non-playing members when one had to actually play the pipes before members (or send a tape if you were too far away or abroad) so they could decide if you could play or not. :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Paul Rhodes oxpi...@hotmail.com To: Mike Walton mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk; Dartmouth NSP nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: nps Yes, it is all rather remarkable isn't it? My understanding has always been that the traditional music of the north east is Metallica, and the NSP is just a rather quaint musical backwater to be enjoyed by teachers, social workers and assorted folkies. There is now an interesting tutorial for playing the NSP with detached fingering on Youtube: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7paLft9_ms Enjoy! Paul Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:28:43 +0100 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: nps what...@ntlworld.com said after talking to Tommy Breckons shorltly before his death and chatting to fellow pipers after his funeral, I have come to the conclusion that the Northumbrian Pipers' society has lost its way. I therefore ask: is it time to form some other group or society which bases its playing on a pure, traditional detached fingering technique Then Paul Rhodes oxpi...@hotmail.com said Can we all join? Certainly not, at least until you've submitted to a 2 hour test of your piping technique and received 2 days corrective tuition from a properly approved tutor. Continuing membership will be subject to further testing on at least an annual basis. I can't believe it ! Why did I ever take up this instrument which causes so much bad feeling ? Mike To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Get the New Internet Explore 8 Optimised for MSN. [2]Download Now -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7paLft9_ms 2. http://extras.uk.msn.com/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=T010MSN07A0716U
[NSP] Re: nps
That's the whole point, isn't it? There's a big difference between pipers who can play and then choose to experiment and do naughty things and players who just play badly and sloppily (is that a word?). I respect players who are accomplished enough to branch out and boldly go where no piper has gone before. Bad playing is just bad playing. We can all do that - some just faster than others :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: what.me what...@ntlworld.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 7:18 PM Subject: [NSP] nps I seem to remember a certain well known piper who entered an open competition playing a simple chanter and won it. Running notes in is rubbish, choyting is rubbish and I would rather see the pipes die out if certain pipers, who are promoting this and who cannot play, are pulling the wool over listeners ears by showing the world that their playing is the way to go forward. Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps
Yes, I should have added that bit! As with all instruments that are not mainstream, what you first hear is often how you think it should sound. A bad player puts people off the instrument and also teaches you the wrong way to play. I also play(?) Hurdy Gurdy and that instrument has already been through the process of being used to refer to a bad wailing sound soon after the French Revolution when it fell out of favour and was played (often badly) by beggars etc. We don't want that to happen to the pipes, do we? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Ian Lawther irlawt...@comcast.net To: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Cc: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: nps colin wrote: That's the whole point, isn't it? There's a big difference between pipers who can play and then choose to experiment and do naughty things and players who just play badly and sloppily (is that a word?). But there is also the knock on effect of those who do not bother to learn properly but simply learn the naughty things without the grounding in the basics. Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Kathryn Tickell - Pipes Teacher.
Excellent point regarding the gracing etc. Now, this may be possibly the worst example I could put forward and there's no subconscious at work here but if we see clowns at a circus falling all over the place, we tend to forget that they are all highly skilled performers who have mastered an art (otherwise they would be seriously injured). There's a big difference to a master who has added something that's not quite what was expected and a beginner doing stuff out of ignorance. We mustn't put them both together, I think. The academics here will be able to spot the difference easily whilst the enthusiasts will go more for the sound whilst missing the technical bit. I'm with the latter. I love listening to the Clough way of playing (as in Chris O., for example) but I also love Billy's way of playing and it was his last TV appearance on the Corries TV show in 1968 - whilst Billy was in hospital - and do excuse my use of first name only, I never knew him but felt I should have! - that made me aware of the pipes in the first place (yes, Bill Charlton's Fancy). Alas that VCRs weren't around then but I do have it on reel-to-reel tape somewhere. Really must find it and copy to a CD before it's lost forever. I also like KTs playing when done in the style I'm more used to. Let's face it, the problem we've been discussing is all down to the fact that the reporter had probably never heard the pipes played before. We must get out more! :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Barry Say barr...@nspipes.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:38 PM Subject: [NSP] Kathryn Tickell - Pipes Teacher. Hi All, I have been waiting for an opportune moment to write this posting for several years. I think this is an appropriate time, before answering some of Anthony Robb's points, particularly the points concerning Kathryn Kathryn was a tutor at the Forkworks Adult Winter Workout held at Darlington in I believe, 1995. I attended this weekend course and subsequently she organized a series of classes privately, which were carried out in groups of three or four. These I attended and paid for. I cannot fault her skill as a teacher, and if I did not derive maximum benefit from the the experience then the failing was mine. However, I learned that her playing is based on a very sound basis of clean fingering, all the gracings are studied and balanced. I adopted some of the gracings in my own playing. More importantly, I took away from the series of lessons the a greater ability to listen critically to my own playing, and the ability to liten 'faster', hearing greater detail in music. This I think was actually more important than anything I learned about piping technique and I remain grateful. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not again!
Anthony, Many of us older ones on the list should remember the folk revival of the 60's when every pub had a folk club of some sort. This discussion very much reminds me of the selectiveness between them. There was a huge difference between the clubs - some being pure traditional with no instruments of any sort allowed and others with electric guitars etc. There was always tension between them as to what constituted Folk. We decided to go with a come along and sing whatever you like and have a good time. We got everything from Bob Dylan to Copper Family. One of our best nights was when a certain Mr Anderson played concertina and pipes (I still have most of the reel-to-reel recording of that night) and the reception was fantastic - many never having heard anything but my poor attempts to play the pipes before that (this was late 70's early 80's, I think). We never did solve the problems between the clubs but did agree to differ whilst (a) accepting that different people had different viewpoints and (b) agreeing that neither was right and accepting that, if one visited a traditional club, one left the guitar at home and also the opposite - that Tom Paxton fans could sit through several dozen Elizabethan verses without passing out from lack of beer because they couldn't get up to go to the bar. The audience decided what they liked. Lets all agree to differ and enjoy a wonderful instrument without becoming too pedantic. We're musicians first and academics second, surely? Let's not argue over which end of the egg to open :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: [NSP] Not again! Hello again The number of people asking me to stay on the list has really touched me. I did leave but rejoined this morning as Iam convinced there is much still to be said; in no particular order: * It wasnat just Barry Sayas contribution that made me question my presence on the list. It came after some very unpleasant postings, which, for me, came as quite a shock. This list can be a source of genuine information and help to pipers everywhere but it will only succeed if opinions are sensitively voiced and readers take time to assimilate what has been said. * Surely it is contradictory to talk about aproper pipinga, amoving ona, apaths to perditiona and aconversiona and then claim rules are not being implied? * Why, when Kathryn Tickell has done more, single-handedly, to raise the profile of piping than the NPS has ever done, are some people on the list frightened to even mention her name? Could it be she doesnat follow the (non-existent) rules? Or perhaps it is her success? I have watched her inspire extremely talented bairns who might not have been switched on to Northumbrian piping if the some of the more vociferous elements on this list had been doing the teaching. Kathryn is one of the hardest working, talented and modest (yes modest!!) people I have ever worked with. * Last year I brought Chris Ormston in to teach some pipes lessons at The Sage Gateshead. His talent stood out but his single-minded approach was not what is required in an area of music that is meant to be fun and all-encompassing. I was hoping to carry on with my Northumbrian Band workshops. It would have been perfect for me if Chris had delivered what the people were paying for and been the popular choice to carry on with the pipes when Paul Knox had moved on. Caedmon participants are from all walks of life and pay good money for help in getting what they want from the pipes. Being told that the sounds that had attracted them to the pipes was not the way to do it wasnat exactly the best choice of teaching strategy. So now I am back doing the pipes lessons at TSG. Not my ideal outcome but it is why his ajobs for the boysa jibe was particularly nasty nonsense. * With regards to my teaching philosophy and standards, I invite any one of you to ask any of the participants of aThe Cool Breath Toura if they found my approach musical and challenging. We were aiming for the highest standard of musical enjoyment and there will soon be a recording available to see if this was achieved and to what extent. Perhaps Barry can recommend a similar project/recording of his own so that we can hear for ourselves just how far along this road he has travelled himself? * As for the question of gracing; perhaps it is precisely because such notes intrude and give some form of dynamics that I find them so musical and appealing. For heavenas sake, the pipes are limited enough to start with, please do not impose further restrictions on what they should or shouldnat do
[NSP] Re: Style
I'm quite enjoying this debate. As a total outsider, it's very interesting to hear what appears to be two totally opposing sides. The first are those that play the pipes in the time-honoured tradition - both in style and technique and the second those that play for enjoyment and are not afraid to bend the rules if they feel that an unusual technique or sound suits them. The problem seems to come when the two collide. I really do feel that we should keep the two separate though because they cannot be discussed in the same area (chalk and cheese). For competitions and tutoring, we are talking about the correct method of playing (the no choyting please group) which, I think, is quite correct. Compare it to vegetable growing, I've seen teeny-weeny carrots win first prize because their roots (like a bit of string) are several feet long. The orange bit would go in one bite - but that's competition rules. Most of us would prefer tiny roots and a real whopper of a carrot but that doesn't win prizes. That doesn't mean big carrots are no good. It's a different outcome you see. Competitions have strict rules (correctly) but that doesn't mean that nothing else is valid. Although I do run with the proper way of playing, I feel that any instrument can be played as the player wishes - be that technique or style. I never personally like Chuck Berry or Jimmi Hendrix playing guitar but many did. I'm not a jazz fan but accept that sometimes unusual ways of playing are valid. One could have a similar debate about the correct way of playing anything at all. Yes, closed fingering is how it was designed and we do have a set of pipes that can be played either way already over in Ireland. Maybe some people want the same thing with NSP rather than play them closed and switch to Scottish small pipes for open? May sound odd to us but the right to do our own thing remains. We don't have to like it, of course :) We'll never all agree. Hopefully the two can co-exist. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: anth...@robbpipes.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 11:47 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Style If a person ignores this completely from the outset then the product may not be wrong but it is certainly misguided. Let pipers take the music in any direction they wish but to have any connection with Northumbrian piping as such they must spend time studying the starting point thoroughly before setting off on their journey. I wholeheartedly degree with this formulation. I think the problem is that people are using style and technique interchangeably. The instruments I know most about and have taught a bit are the bowed strings (mainly viola). In teaching I would stress various basic techniques (such as drawing a steady bow and observing the point of content, the pressure and the speed, for example) on-the-string staccato with the bow, off-the-string staccato, correct shifting (left thumb and forearm à la trombone - the usual modern correct classical technique) as well as correct glissando technique (use your left thumb as a reference point by the heel of the neck and slide the fingers up and down - technique advocated by Ruggiero Ricci q.v. and based on his exploration of Paganini, N.B. whose fingering was unconventional. Swarbrick also did it, but i think he only used first and third position) and a whole range of other aspects - irrespective of what kind of music they intended to play. I would also encourage pupils to play different styles of music irrespective of what they intended to concentrate on. Bach specialists should also study Paganini and folk fiddling, for example. Of course staccato technique is essential for gaining control of the NSP as an instrument but once you've got it I don't think it's a very musical idea to just go around demonstrating one's staccato technique like opera singers their brute power and vibrato. And of course, style and technique inevitably overlap. If people dont see the point in doing this then chosing to play an out and out traditional instrument seems a bit daft in the first place. This is also very true. On a personal note, I am a very humble musician when it comes to practical skills (mainly a mid-level hard-practicing semi-pro classical hack, but with experience in everything from traditional to progrock) but since I was an adult beginner (a long time ago) and am rather obsessive about music (the nearest thing I have to a religion!), I think I tend to reflect on and analyse all the various aspects to a possibly unusual (or excessive) degree. I also flatter myself by thinking that some of my conclusions may have a certain validity. So... Apologies to anyone to whom my assertiveness - born of enthusiam - may ever have come over as bumptiousness. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin
[NSP] Re: Re:
I've heard better (most of you) and worse (I do listen to myself, after all). While I realise that many of you will know her and have heard her play for real, that Youtube recording is such bad quality I think my dog would have sounded better. Are we suggesting that she is (a) a bad musician, (b) she doesn't play the pipes in the correct manner - ie as they were designed to be played, (c) she does her own thing with them as some others do (ie not traditional)? I'd ignore mother's comments. I have yet to hear a mother say anything adverse about their child - even if they are really BAD. You kid is always a genius - it comes with parenthood :) I'm presuming, from the comments made, that, although she has been given good advice she has chosen to ignore it (rather than not be adept enough to follow it) and, consequently, been marked down at competition level and play as she thinks fit (reminds me of comments passed on someone else mentioned in the same article). Excuse the silly questions but, living as a hermit on a small, isolated mountain and not having had contact with another piper for some time, I sometimes worry about the vehemence which greets some players at times. It is worrying when some pipers seem to get all the publicity - especially when they are more out of the main stream - but maybe these pipers (because they are doing their own thing) seek it out more to get their style more widely recognised? Certainly, here in the NW, very few people are aware of the NSP but those that are generally know only one name. I have to agree with Helen that, on a public list, it can sound like sour grapes (I know it's not so don't shout). Yes, there very pushy parents and they often do their children no good at all as they make enemies and won't take any criticism of their wonder child - to the detriment of the child, of course. Alas, the general public go by what they hear and pay little attention to the skills that should be there (musically speaking - remember Roy Castle playing the hosepipe and the response he got?). The general public just isn't aware of what should be done and what shouldn't. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz; pipers list nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Apologies, I was under the impression that the pipers list was a forum for self expression and discussion. I was not aware there was a required censorship in case the truth about these pretenders reaches the public domain. The Newcastle Journal is a publication with a weekly circulation of 289 000, and hence a VERY public forum, and I doubt this reporter stumbled upon this story herself but rather that it was fed to her. The Bellingham show is also a public event and I have witnessed first hand the attempts by the child's family to compromise the integrity of the competition by niggling at the judges and making loud stage whispers from the audience you were the best - you would have won if it he (Chris Ormston) hadn't been judging. I'm told that Adrian Schofield was given an even more torrid time the previous year. Such behaviour is not worthy of our support. LR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:48:33 +1200 To: lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz Subject: [NSP] Re: I have often been misquoted in the press, to my embarrassment. I think we need to be very careful not to be seen to be unsupportive in the public eye, and this is after all a relatively public list. Helen - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:59 AM I'd like to share with you all some quotes from an article in the Newcastle Journal newspaper about Jessica Lamb. The paper has an article entitled school girl piper Jessica a star in the making I picked them up and within no time at all I was playing a tune. I could play by ear and I just took to them straight away. From there I got better and better and now Im so proud of myself. Im brilliant and Kathryn Tickell has high hopes for me. Some of you may be aware of this 14 year old precocious nay dillousional child. This is the child who has been repeatedly given feedback by pipers who ARE brilliant and has ignored it; year on year she has had the same feedback yet listening to the video attached to the article is still ignoring it. Chris Ormston Adrian Schofield have both given this girl advice but clearly she feels she knows better than those who are recognised by us all as true masters of the pipes. This girl has a long,long way to go before she can claim to be brilliant. The comments of her mother (the typical pushy mother) show where the girl gets
[NSP] (Fwd) Re: Jack Armstrong and Pat Jennings
--===AVGMAIL-49D2A1F2==Content-Type: text/plain; x-avgÎrt; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: AVG certification No virus today - outoing Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.11.35/2033 - Release Date: 03/31/09 13:05:00 --===AVGMAIL-49D2A1F2===-- -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: stiff fingers and aging
Interesting. I do have health problems and have certainly noticed my fingers getting less agile as the years pass (I'm 59 now). Probably started getting a little stiff from the big 5 0. I've never been THAT nimble anyway but I did notice that as I have severe back (spinal) problems and pumping the bellows and squeezing the bag is rather painful after a few minutes, I played less and, although the fingers know where to go, they've got slower to get there so I didn't play as much! I don't seem to have quite as much problem with my (ebony) Wheatstone Aeola though. Fingers are fine but its so darn heavy just holding it hurts. I tend to play hurdy gurdy, when I can as it's sitting on my lap and my left fingers are better than my right. Maybe it IS lack of playing that makes it a vicious circle. I have heard of athletes who slow down and start to seize up and others who keep going and don't. Now, where are those NZ green mussels... Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard Hensold hens...@world.oberlin.edu To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:11 AM Subject: [NSP] stiff fingers and aging I was apparently doing something else for the last couple hundred messages, so am only now getting into the discussion... What interested me were the comments about fingers stiffening with age. I'm only 50, but my fingering has improved steadily (that is, way too slowly) as long as I've been playing. At what age have people noticed it starting to go the other way? Is it possible to rule out inefficient practicing/warm-ups? I also wonder if the British climate is a factor, because my fingers have felt unusually stiff when practicing in Northumberland. Are there any (especially older) players who have lived in both Northumberland and North America that can comment on this? Or for that matter, is there anyone familiar with medical statistics who knows if arthritis or other joint problems are more prevalent in Britain than N America? Dick HensoldSt. Paul, MN 651/646-6581 Traditional Folk Music, Early Music, and Cambodian Music Northumbrian smallpipes, recorder, Medieval greatpipes,Swedish sackpipa, beyaw. [1]www.dickhensold.com -- References 1. http://www.dickhensold.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Just testing my new spam filter :)
As it says on the box. Seems my own messages are sometimes being deleted by an over-zelous Mailwasher so just checking :) Colin Hill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Mail not getting to list
Out of curiosity, has anyone else noticed their replies not showing up on the list (I usually hit reply all and delete the other names leaving just the nsp one)? I've done a few replies over the last couple of weeks and some have come through and others haven't (none important, I hasten to add). I'm with Orange and they do, on occasions, get blacklisted for Spam. Just wondering. Colin Hill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mail not getting to list
Thanks, I'll remember that. As I said, nothing important in them. I did have a situation about a year back when messages from Orange were blacklisted and were being bounced back due to the amount of Spam being sent from there. This list is one of the few that I use this mail address for. I actually have the server (demon?) blacklisted as I was getting hundreds of returns from emails that I hadn't sent - from cwhii@myemail infod@myemail etc so, if one was bounced, I wouldn't see it as it gets deleted from the server. Normally they appear within a few minutes. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Wayne Cripps w...@cs.dartmouth.edu To: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:20 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Mail not getting to list Hi Colin - If you contact me within an hour or two after you send the vanishing message I can check my logs and see if the server got it, and where it went. Be sure to tell me as best you can what your message said... and when you sent it, as it is just one of hundreds of thousands of messages that go through my server each day and a specific message can be hard to find. If you are technical.. a Message-id really helps. Wayne Out of curiosity, has anyone else noticed their replies not showing up on the list (I usually hit reply all and delete the other names leaving just the nsp one)? I've done a few replies over the last couple of weeks and some have come through and others haven't (none important, I hasten to add). I'm with Orange and they do, on occasions, get blacklisted for Spam. Just wondering. Colin Hill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rothbury 1990
Got mine this morning. Making donations tomorrow :) Thanks, it's great! Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:27 PM Subject: [NSP] Rothbury 1990 Hellos apiece Here's the list of people who should be getting a CD very soon. I posted the last batch of UK destinations today and will do overseas tomorrow (I had to wait for some lightweight cases). Nigel Barlow Alan Corkett Richard Heard John Gibbons Ross Anderson Mike Sharp Gill Lyons , Mrs. Honor Hill John Bagnall Barry Julia Say Bill Telfer Jim Grant John Birchall Rev John Clifford Colin Hill Mel Leggett Richard and Anita Evans Ian Lawther Andrew P. Killick, Ph.D. Jim Richmond Debbie Lawther Mr D. SINGLETON Peter Dunn, Edmund Spriggs Hartmut Wiechern Malcolm Craven Roger Howard Mark Stayton Marianne Hall. Eddie Brady SHEILA BRIDGES Philip Gruar Simon Leveaux Tim Rolls Daphne Briggs Chris Birch G Sergeant Pete Cryer Sara Paton Graham W. H. Wells Peter Dyson Neil Tavernor Di Jevons Ewan Barker Dave Cook Comps to: Alistair Anderson Chris Ormston Some people have received theirs already. I've had very positive and pleasing comments so far. Thank you all very much. Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Keep on Ranting!
I'm reasonably familiar with abc (at least, playing them) but I'm also having problems. I'm getting a list of warnings with abc2midi and abcNavigaitor says no tune but, for the life of me, I just can't see what the problem is. Same thing with the suggested URL. It will be something in the way the mail program formats it, I'm sure, but I don't know quite what. Seems to be something to do with the spacing? Colin Hill. - Original Message - From: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com To: 'NSP List' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Chris Ormston ch...@chrisormston.com Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:40 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Keep on Ranting! Thanks Chris, Looks fascinating, but as I'm not familiar with abc, I tried pasting it on the site, on the abc converter, but got an error message, tried ticking a few boxes, but no improvement. Anyone more computer savvy who can tell me what I'm doing wrong? Tim - Original Message - From: Chris Ormston ch...@chrisormston.com To: 'NSP List' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:24 PM Subject: [NSP] Keep on Ranting! Here's a new one - enjoy! X:1 T:Keelman Brown of Newburn C:Chris Ormston M:4/4 K:D de|fdfa d2dc|BGBd A2de|fdfa gfed|f2e2e2 de|fdfad2dc|BGBd A2 AG|FAGB Aage|f2d2d2:|| ef|gBgf eAde|fAfe d2de|fdfa gfed|f2e2e2 ef|gBgf eAde|fAfe d2AG|FAGB Aage|f2d2d2:|| For those who prefer dots, copy and paste the above here: [1]http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/abcconvert.php Chris Ormston chrisormston.com borderdirectors.com -- References 1. http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/abcconvert.php To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00
[NSP] Re: Keep on Ranting!
Works perfectly now. Great tune. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Chris Ormston ch...@chrisormston.com To: 'tim rolls BT' tim.ro...@btconnect.com; 'NSP List' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:04 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Keep on Ranting! Tim, Try pasting this instead: X:1 T:Keelman Brown of Newburn C:Chris Ormston M:4/4 K:D de|fdfa d2dc|BGBd A2de|fdfa gfed|f2e2e2 de|fdfad2dc|BGBd A2 AG|FAGB Aage|f2d2d2:|| ef|gBgf eAde|fAfe d2de|fdfa gfed|f2e2e2 ef|gBgf eAde|fAfe d2AG|FAGB Aage|f2d2d2:|| Extra lines appeared in my post when it was converted from rich text to plain text format Chris -Original Message- From: tim rolls BT [mailto:tim.ro...@btconnect.com] Sent: 14 March 2009 09:41 To: 'NSP List'; Chris Ormston Subject: Re: [NSP] Keep on Ranting! Thanks Chris, Looks fascinating, but as I'm not familiar with abc, I tried pasting it on the site, on the abc converter, but got an error message, tried ticking a few boxes, but no improvement. Anyone more computer savvy who can tell me what I'm doing wrong? Tim - Original Message - From: Chris Ormston ch...@chrisormston.com To: 'NSP List' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:24 PM Subject: [NSP] Keep on Ranting! Here's a new one - enjoy! X:1 T:Keelman Brown of Newburn C:Chris Ormston M:4/4 K:D de|fdfa d2dc|BGBd A2de|fdfa gfed|f2e2e2 de|fdfad2dc|BGBd A2 AG|FAGB Aage|f2d2d2:|| ef|gBgf eAde|fAfe d2de|fdfa gfed|f2e2e2 ef|gBgf eAde|fAfe d2AG|FAGB Aage|f2d2d2:|| For those who prefer dots, copy and paste the above here: [1]http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/abcconvert.php Chris Ormston chrisormston.com borderdirectors.com -- References 1. http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/abcconvert.php To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00
[NSP] Re: [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes
I'm glad you wrote this. I suggested something similar but my post never appeared (that happens quite often and yes, I did send it to the list, not the person who posted it). As I said there, I've been trying to do something similar with a book of hurdy gurdy tunes but some other player beat me to it by playing all the tunes on the piano and making it available as an mp3. The cries of ah, that's how that bit goes continue to echo. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Mike and Enid Walton mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:53 AM Subject: [NSP] [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes If tunes (the first 30 in the current context, but it holds for all the NPS tunes) were posted in abc format on the NPS website, it would enable people with the necessary programs to print them in whatever format they wished, hear them as midis, transpose them etc. It might, of course, reduce the sales of NPS books. I thought about this when we were playing tunes on F chanters at Halsway with other musicians. The music books proferred by pipers were of course no good to the other musicians unless they were really expert at transposing on the hoof. Mike Walton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
I take the point. I should have pointed out that the book I referred to was a collection of traditional music and was also out of print. The tunes were freely available and had just been collated into one place so no original works were involved. I was suggesting, in this case, the abc/midi version should be included in the book or as an authorised download by those who have purchased it. A code to download could be included and making a secure/obscure site wouldn't be that difficult. For the odd tune, there are plenty of programs available to copy the dots into to see what it sounds like and plenty of sources where they have already been converted anyway. I wasn't suggesting doing any unauthorised copying of existing and available books. Just really a suggestion to the complaints about no CD of existing and well known tunes and, of course, aimed at beginners or those who have difficulty in reading the dots - even after years of trying. My problem with learning off music CDs is that they are invariably made by excellent, professional musicians and also reflect their own style. An abc or midi is just the bare bones which is of (in my opinion) more use to someone who is still learning. Speaking for myself and listening to some very simple, easy tunes (so it was said) played by members of this list, I would have happily burnt my chanter and given up years ago. However, playing the midi version gives some hope that you are, actually, playing a tune! Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: 'colin' cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:41 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes An abc pipers' tunebook should ideally - * Not be a copy of a printed source. It might affect its sales. Let alone copyright questions. * So should be mostly traditional unpublished material. * It could contain new tunes too, if submitted by the composer - copyright again. * It should be communally authored - wait for a single author and it will take a long time, and will mirror his taste; be it excellent or otherwise, someone will disagree! It is a view of the tradition that we are after, not just Joe Bloggs' bit of it. * Abc's could be submitted to the nsp mailing list, and someone web-literate could put it online. * So we need a willing able volunteer. * Here the plan falls to the ground. John -Original Message- From: nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of colin Sent: 10 March 2009 16:23 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes I'm glad you wrote this. I suggested something similar but my post never appeared (that happens quite often and yes, I did send it to the list, not the person who posted it). As I said there, I've been trying to do something similar with a book of hurdy gurdy tunes but some other player beat me to it by playing all the tunes on the piano and making it available as an mp3. The cries of ah, that's how that bit goes continue to echo. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Mike and Enid Walton mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:53 AM Subject: [NSP] [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes If tunes (the first 30 in the current context, but it holds for all the NPS tunes) were posted in abc format on the NPS website, it would enable people with the necessary programs to print them in whatever format they wished, hear them as midis, transpose them etc. It might, of course, reduce the sales of NPS books. I thought about this when we were playing tunes on F chanters at Halsway with other musicians. The music books proferred by pipers were of course no good to the other musicians unless they were really expert at transposing on the hoof. Mike Walton -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: first 30 tunes
What a good idea. I must confess to liking CDs to hear what tunes sound like (being very poor at reading dots - fine on the actual notes but poor on phrasing, length etc - especially when new to the tune). I find that a Midi of a tune works well enough to give a rough idea what it sounds like if it's totally unknown - as many are to new players. Maybe someone with the right equipment could make them and post them to a website somewhere? True they would be rather clinical and probably not 100% accurate but would, at least, help a newcomer to learn (roughly) what the tune should sound like. I know I had some very interesting sounding tunes when I started which bore little resemblance to the actual tunes blush. On the plus side, the individual piper's style wouldn't be passed on to cause more grumbling :) I'm already trying this with a large collection of hurdy gurdy tunes (presently out of print) but just can't seem to make the time so do realise the work involved. Just a thought. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: rosspi...@aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 6:21 PM Subject: [NSP] first 30 tunes The NPS has just published a small tune book inpsired by the Boulting brothers who found they couldn't join in at a session I was leading at the North American Pipers' Convention at Killington in 2007. They asked a number of pipers to contribute their collection of 30 tunes that they thought should be essential basic repertoire that everyone should know, to help themselves and other pipers from different airts and parts when they got together and could all join in. The book is now printed and available from the NPS. At the time they wanted a CD to accompany the book to help folk who found it difficult to pick iup a tune from the dots. Unfortunately we could not find any one to mastermind that part of the exercise and it has not been produced yet. If any one out there is willing to collect recordings of the tunes and is then able to produce a CD please contact Julia Say the Secretary of the NPS to arrange this. It has already attracted criticism from one of our pipers who is 'deeply disappointed' that the CD is not with the book as originally planned and who thinks that it will do real damage to what is essentially an oral tradition. He quotes the late Tom Anderson of Shetland who 'rightly' said 'Never try to learn a tune you don't already know'. This of course is a matter of debate,i.e. oral v learning from printed music. It is interesting that the same piper never found any course to complain that I had taken most of the music for the Cut Dry#1 LP from printed souces as there was no one alive who had those old tunes in their repertoire that they had learnt from a previous generation. This narrow view in my mind would prevent any advantage to be taken from Matt's recent publication of the 1777 Vicker's MS. I have my own views on presenting recordings of tunes with tune books as the style of playing from the various players would be imprinted on learners which could be a bad thing in some ways as suggesting that this was the 'right' way to play the tunes. Maybe a neutral instrument should be used to just demonstrate the way the tune may be played. Colin R AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: malcom's final solution
Excuse my ignorance on this but, many years ago (and I do mean MANY - possibly back in the 70's or 80's), there was a discussion regarding making plastic chanters for NSP as an aid to teaching in schools (thus swapping the pipes for the ever present recorder for music lessons etc). I notice quite a few Scottish smallpipes now have the plastic option but I haven't seen plastic NSPs. Plastic, of course, encompassing a number of man-made materials - as with clarinets etc. Obviously, production of plastic pipes would be quite useless if the chanters have to be tuned on an individual basis (and probably take more time - plastic not being as amiable to work with as wood). Is this one of the reasons why it never happened - that, even in plastic, each chanter would have to be tuned by hand? Just wondering. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: Malcolm Sargeant malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: malcom's final solution Dear Malcolm, Yes of course - I read your post more carefully after sending mine, and see that you were in fact referring to an old chanter rather than something one of our current pipemakers had done. Sorry to have reacted over-hastily! I agree that some research and collating of measurements may be interesting and useful, though of course finger hole positioning is, and always has been with all wind instruments, a compromise between theoretical calculated positions and positions where the player's fingers can move most easily, and then undercut and adjusted for accurate tuning - making compromises and decisions to accomodate the balance between pure and tempered intevals. I do drill my fingerholes in the same very carefully measured places on all my chanters, though these have been refined and slightly changed over the years. However, the undercutting and fine tuning is always subtly different. I'm afraid I don't think chanter tuning can be reduced to an exact science, precisely the same on every instrument! Philip - Original Message - From: Malcolm Sargeant malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com To: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: malcom's final solution Dear Philip thank you for your mail. the half inch tone hole sizes came from a Fred Picknell chanter about 100 year old and been in constant use. This chanter belongs to Tommy Breckons and is in use today. I have had it here at Scunthorpe to fettle and believe me it does play. The 1/2 is a guesstimate and of course not to be taken as scientifically as this survey could be. Thank you and please try to be positive, no one is going to come to any harm over this. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: malcom's final solution
Thanks for that. It's nice to know that the idea was followed up. Being out of region (Liverpool) if it's not in the magazine or on the list, I probably won't know about it :-). I'll be watching this list with interest for more news. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: pipe...@tiscali.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 8:23 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: malcom's final solution Colin, Some four to five years ago Mike Nelson devoted a great deal of time and effort to producing a set of pipes suitable for use in schools. The chanter was made from a plastic composite material so were parts of the drones. The idea was that the pipes should be produced as cheaply as could be consistent with sounding as close to normal pipes as possible. The pipes had to be made to stand the knocks and pressures put on them by the children. I remember Mike saying that there were several problems with actually getting the chanters etc. into production but these were overcome and a protoyype set was produced for evaluation. Anthony Robb became involved and I remember him playing a set at the Rothbury weekend course. I have not been involved closely with piping for 2or 3 years now so can someone update us on how the sets progressed and has the scheme been a sucess in schools? Prehps there is a place for beginners sets, or part sets, to be made from composite materials as there must be those who are put off taking up the pipes because of the relativly high initial cost. Dicuss!!! Regards to all, Guy Tindale Original Message From: cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Date: 07/03/2009 18:31 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subj: [NSP] Re: malcom#39;s final solution Excuse my ignorance on this but, many years ago (and I do mean MANY - possibly back in the 70's or 80's), there was a discussion regarding making plastic chanters for NSP as an aid to teaching in schools (thus swapping the pipes for the ever present recorder for music lessons etc). I notice quite a few Scottish smallpipes now have the plastic option but I haven't seen plastic NSPs. Plastic, of course, encompassing a number of man-made materials - as with clarinets etc. Obviously, production of plastic pipes would be quite useless if the chanters have to be tuned on an individual basis (and probably take more time - plastic not being as amiable to work with as wood). Is this one of the reasons why it never happened - that, even in plastic, each chanter would have to be tuned by hand? Just wondering. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: Malcolm Sargeant malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: malcom's final solution Dear Malcolm, Yes of course - I read your post more carefully after sending mine, and see that you were in fact referring to an old chanter rather than something one of our current pipemakers had done. Sorry to have reacted over-hastily! I agree that some research and collating of measurements may be interesting and useful, though of course finger hole positioning is, and always has been with all wind instruments, a compromise between theoretical calculated positions and positions where the player's fingers can move most easily, and then undercut and adjusted for accurate tuning - making compromises and decisions to accomodate the balance between pure and tempered intevals. I do drill my fingerholes in the same very carefully measured places on all my chanters, though these have been refined and slightly changed over the years. However, the undercutting and fine tuning is always subtly different. I'm afraid I don't think chanter tuning can be reduced to an exact science, precisely the same on every instrument! Philip - Original Message - From: Malcolm Sargeant malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com To: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: malcom's final solution Dear Philip thank you for your mail. the half inch tone hole sizes came from a Fred Picknell chanter about 100 year old and been in constant use. This chanter belongs to Tommy Breckons and is in use today. I have had it here at Scunthorpe to fettle and believe me it does play. The 1/2 is a guesstimate and of course not to be taken as scientifically as this survey could be. Thank you and please try to be positive, no one is going to come to any harm over this. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Fancy a job? - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/jobs/ __
[NSP] Re: Jimmy Allen
Not having the will to resist a good Google search, I came across this variation which I haven't heard before (American). http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/old-time-music/midi/005200.MID No accreditation for the extra fiddly bits. I had no idea (back in '73) that I was learning such a new tune :-) and, I'm sure, there's not one piper here who has never played it at some stage. I agree that such a well-known tune would have been published well before 1964 had it been around. This is a very interesting thread. When it appeared in the NSP tunebook, did it come about from oh I know a good one or are there any indications as to an older date/source etc. 1964 isn't that long ago to some of us. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: Alan Corkett a...@bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:40 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Jimmy Allen If the tune was not recorded pre 1974 (it seems), or known to be published pre 1964, then to assume 'it has been around for ever' is a bit of a long shot. It doesn't appear in any of the sources on Farne, so if old it may still be a recent import to the NE. If it were an old NE tune I would expect to see it in Vickers or somewhere. It isn't. John -Original Message- From: Alan Corkett [mailto:a...@bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 15 January 2009 13:35 To: NSP LIST Subject: [NSP] Re: Jimmy Allen Dear Pipers I forwarded an extract of the problem about sources to the EFDSS library - here is the reply I received. Regards Alan Corkett -Original Message- From: Elaine Bradtke [mailto:e...@efdss.org] Sent: 15 January 2009 11:19 To: a...@bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk Alan Corkett Subject: Re: Fw: Jimmy Allen The CDM vol. 6 was published in 1964. We don't seem to have an earlier version of it, and nothing in manuscript form. The recordings we have of it don't date back that far either. It would be interesting to see if it's in Peter Kennedy's collection - perhaps you could check with the National Sound Archive,0207-589 6603 or Topic Records, who are producing a retrospective series based on his collection. Tony Engle email: tonyen...@topicrecords.co.uk 0207-263 1240 The Northumbrian connection appears to have come from the name. I checked the Fiddler's Companion - a reasonably reliable if slightly North American biased source: http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/JIG_JM.htm#JIMMY_ALLEN JIMMY ALLEN. AKA and see Jamie Allen, Reel of Tullochgorum. English, Scottish, American, Polka or March. England, Northumberland. USA, New England. G Major. Standard tuning. AABB. Northumbrian musician Jamie Allen (1734-1810) was a famous small pipes player whose name is associated with this tune. Allen's father Will (1704-1779) was perhaps a pipemaker and was River Warden of the Coquet. His wife, Jimmy's mother, was a gypsy, and the elder Allen associated much with her folk. Son Jimmy (or Jamie) was the subject of two biographies, largely fanciful, and it is hard to determine the facts of his life. It is said he was at various times piper to the Duchess of Northumberland, enlisted in the army, and a fugitive from justice. At any rate, he was highly regarded by his contemporaries as a musician and is thought to have played the Northumbrian smallpipes, Border pipes, and Union (uilleann) pipes. English/Scottish versions are found under the Jamie title, American appear often as Jimmy. The melody is popular in English sessions in modern times, although considered to be somewhat of a 'beginner's tune'. Miller Perron (101 Polkas), 1978; No. 52. Miller Perron (New England Fiddlers Repertoire), 1983; No. 63. Maddeningly, he doesn't give his source for the historical information. We don't have Miller Perron 101 Polkas, so it may be from there. Another diverting, if not necessarily enlightening discussion of the tune is here:http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/6354 Sorry we can't trace it back any further. It sounds like it's been around forever. . . Dear Malcolm A Happy New Year to you! The Northumbrian Pipers Society are busy discussing the origins of the tune Jimmy Allen which was published in EFDSS CDM6 in 1964. I felt I might have learnt this tune in the 1950s as an easy/beginners tune, but not if it was not published till 1964, unless picked up aurally Can you throw any light on this mystery. Regards Alan Corkett NB. Barry Say who edits their NPS magazine wrote this (an extract...) As an exercise, I tried to think of old tunes which would serve as initial targets for beginner pipers. In the course of this, Jimmy Allan sprang to mind, but I found that it did not appear in the Peacock Collection, Bewick Book, or the Vickers collection and to my surprise, it did not appear in the first edition of the Northumbrian Pipers' Tunebook (1936) nor in the Fiddler's Tune book(1951/54) edited by Peter Kennedy. Peter Kennedy was a pivotal figure in the traditional music scene in the 1950s
[NSP] Re: Images of reverse or not
Gosh, some interesting points here today. Anyone know when that actual rule of placing buttons differently for men and women originated? I suppose one would have to check both sexes to see if they are both reversed. This topic comes up on quite a regular basis regarding prints of the hurdy gurdy as well - you unscrew the handle if you play it left handed :0 Unless it's constructed that way, of course with a reverse thread. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Dave S david...@pt.lu To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: [NSP] Images of reverse or not I have the idea that if one looks at the buttons on coats and waistcoats ( if present) one can solve the problem of whether the image is true or not. Ladies have buttons on the left and Gents on the right. good spotting Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Jimmy Allan traditional (?)
Reading this reminded me of something. Jimmy Allan was the reason I had Bill Hedworth make me a 7 key chanter. I couldn't play it on a simple one and I rather liked the tune. I'd forgotten about that until this reminded me. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Barry Say barr...@nspipes.co.uk To: nsp nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:17 PM Subject: [NSP] Jimmy Allan traditional (?) Hi All, This is a follow-up to an earlier e-mail. As editor of the NPS Magazine, I was well aware of the content of Chris Ormston's article well before the NPS membership or the wider piping community. I refrained from commenting on it or saying anything related to it until the magazine was published. However, it set me thinking. As an exercise, I tried to think of old tunes which would serve as initial targets for beginner pipers. In the course of this, Jimmy Allan sprang to mind, but I found that it did not appear in the Peacock Collection, Bewick Book, or the Vickers collection and to my surprise, it did not appear in the first edition of the Northumbrian Pipers' Tunebook (1936) nor in the Fiddler's Tunebook(1951/54) edited by Peter Kennedy. Peter Kennedy was a pivotal figure in the traditional music scene in the 1950s and 60s and worked extensively in the North-East and is probably the person most responsible for making the music of the North-East of England available to the whole of England in that period. I do not intend this as either praise or criticism. I had always assumed from its name that it was part of the Northumbrian tradition, but I am beginning to suspect that we have been deceived by our own willingness to believe that which seems convenient. The tune as we know it appears in the EFDSS Community dance manual volume 6 on a page with two tunes composed in 1961. The copyright dates would indicate that it was publised in 1964 or 1967. I cannot lay my hands on my copy of this but I amn sure that this publication was certainly part of Peter Kennedy's sphere of influence, but the fact that it does not appear in the first two volumes of the Fiddlers Tunebook, would indicate that he was unaware of it in 1951 and had found it by 1964. The Reel of Tullochgorum is almost certainly the same tune but is reckoned to be in D. It was published by Ian Powrie, apparently in the late 1950s and it seems that he claimed that it was a traditional tune which he had collected. Ian lived in Perthshire - so that is the first place we would suspect. Now we come to the important link. Ian Powrie lead a Scottish Dance Band which appeared on the 'White Heather Club', a television program which I know was available in the North East (of England), because I saw it. So - unless someone can come up with some other evidence - the best story I can come up with is that: Ian Powrie collected the 'Reel of Tullochgorum' in North-East Scotland. A Northumbrian musician picked it up through the White Heather Club (or some other route) It was adopted by the Northumbrian piping community who would insist on playing it in nominal 'G'. --- I have mentioned some of this to Matt Seattle, who, at the time I contacted him, had no recollection of finding Jimmy Allan or any related tunes in his researches. If any list members can cast any further light on this, I would be most grateful. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: English culinary traditions - a rough guide
Or, in practical terms, a few bottles of good brandy, a fine woman and a good cigar. maybe enough left over for a Bakewell pudding :) Colin Hill PS Thanks for that link. Invaluable to those of us who remember threepenny bits, silver sixpences and half crowns and, in my case (just) farthings. - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: 'Dru Brooke-Taylor' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: English culinary traditions - a rough guide -Original Message- From: Dru Brooke-Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Has anyone any thoughts of what prizes of 3, 5 and 10 gn (£3.05, £5.25 and £10.50) represented in real terms in 1878? http://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/?redirurl=calculators/ppoweruk/ Cheers, Paul Gretton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Amazing Grace
Just don't get us playing Kumbya. :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Jim Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP Mailing List nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:00 PM Subject: [NSP] Amazing Grace Dear Paul Gretton, Relax. Chill out. Take a pill. The sky isn't about to fall. Referring to Amazing Grace as an awful piece of slop suggests, to me at least, that you're having a bad hair day, you have some kind of bee in your bonnet, or you got up on the wrong side of the bed. Or all of the above. Life's too short to work yourself into such a lather, my friend. Oh, I know the tune is hackneyed and shopworn. I know all that. I also know it's one of only several tunes that ever gets associated with Highland bagpipes these days. As a musician, born in Scotland, with a deep love of piping in all its forms, that bothers me as well. But don't blame the tune for that. I went to a beautiful Remembrance Day service yesterday. Here (Canada), Amazing Grace has been part of such events for a great many years. The pipe band and the military band play it together as the wreaths are laid on the cenotaph. Even though I've heard that awful piece of slop thousands of times, it still moves me to tears. As does the solitary piper with Floo'ers o' the Forest. It's ingrained now, Paul. It's part of something that's bigger than all of us, part of a tradition that means a lot to a lot of people. Don't begrudge us that. Regards, Jim PS I think Highland Cathedral is a nice tune. Not ashamed to admit it. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Music for funeral
You swine! I don't know it either so I'm having Googling frantically for an audio file now (safer then choyting) to see what I'm missing! Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:32 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Music for funeral You are lucky! Make sure you keep it that way. Don't go Googling for an audio file out of curiosity, for example. Cheers, Paul -Original Message- From: Lynn Patterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 November 2008 19:55 To: Paul Gretton Subject: Re: [NSP] Music for funeral and I don't even know Highland Cathedral! Lynn To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP music for a funeral
Yes Matt, that would be my choice too (got that pencilled in for mine and got the CD). The Dark Island seems to be popular as well and can be played on larger chanters, I think. Both suitable tunes and, to my mind, sound far better on NSP. Of course, Scottish may not be what's required (I also have some hammer dulcimer tunes copied to a blank CD just in case I pop my clogs - really nice, fast happy stuff - don't want it to be too miserable - I'm generally a happy bloke). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Matt Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: the Red Goblin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:10 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP music for a funeral I don't know if there is such a thing a 'NSP music that would be traditional for a funeral' but the Scottish Border lament Flow'rs of the Forest has resonance for many, and there is a recording on Kathryn Tickell's 'Borderlands' if I recall correctly. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Over the hill?
I suspect that, had they had a few pipers (male and female) in their sample, they would have given up and gone home at it would have thrown their results out :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: tim rolls BT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Richard York [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Over the hill? I shouldn't worry too much Richard, a brief extract from the summary says males tap faster than females, the dominant hand is faster than the non-dominant hand the slow down is apparantly only about 10-15% for the over 50s compared to the 16-24s, and if you want all the stats. and have trouble sleeping go to http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3848/is_200407/ai_n9439965/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1. Just make sure you play with a group of older females and you should be able to keep your end up! A fellow over 50 Tim - Original Message - From: Richard York [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: [NSP] Over the hill? The BBC radio news Quiz has just referred to a test of men's declining powers, correlated with age. It seems we start to seriously go downhill after 39. (Not much hope for me then.) The test was to see how rapidly they could keep tapping their index fingers over a period of 10 seconds, a vital skill for any man of the world. One wonders how the test would vary if they took a sample of NSpipers? And does it mean that starting to play in my mid-50's I don't stand a chance with repeated notes? Yours in senility, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1743 - Release Date: 10/24/2008 8:33 AM
[NSP] American Politics invades NSP traditions
Did anyone else notice that Obama is Pro Choyts and McCain favours slurs? Apologies, Colin McNaught To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tchuning
Oh very good! I'll download that for reference purposes :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: [NSP] tchuning This tells you it all you need to know. ;-) [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhHAojVyeG0 Cheers, Paul Gretton -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhHAojVyeG0 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: George Atkinson recordings
The second recording IS there but the m3u file that links to it isn't. The actual mp3 file is at http://www.asaplive.com/farneaudio/m3u/W2301005.mp3 but please remember that the files are not for download for various reasons (copyright etc) but I think you can stream them from that link. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Mike Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: NSP Mailing List nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: George Atkinson recordings After posting I noticed that I could only play the second recording. The first seems to be missing or incorrectly linked. --Mike - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:51:43 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: George Atkinson recordings I have found the link to the recordings but the files themselves are apparently ont there. Has anyone had more luck than me? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tchuning
Isn't that the fellow from Walker's crisps sitting in that boat? Lugs (or expanded to lug-holes) is a common expression in Liverpool as well (as in pin back your lug-holes meaning to listen and pay attention). having Googled a little (as a rest from choyting) it varies from a Scottish word to a cockney one if it was confined to industrial areas, maybe our roving shipworkers carried it around the country. However, it's also down as from the Shetland Isles (lug=ear) in the Shetland Dictionary. Also claimed by Norfolk with the addition of the word luggy as meaning deaf. Not really the height of either industry or shipbuilding there, I think. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: tchuning No, it's a sort of sail, hence Lugger. Isn't it? Or was that a boat with big ears sticking out each side to catch the wind? Richard. Ormston, Chris wrote: And here was me thinking that the 'lug' might be an ancient tool fashioned from a curlew's beak by the early Christian monks of Lindisfarne to tune their Northumbrian pipes, or perhaps a form of sheep tick that the shepherds had somehow domesticated and taught to carve out the fingerholes while they played their pipes to their flocks. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 August 2008 13:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: tchuning Dear Sam, The 'lugs' are a pair of devices situated on either side of the head as in ' If yi divent shurrup aal giv yi a belt across the lugs.'?You may need to look it up in a Geordie Dictionary. I am afraid that NSP's come with a bit of local jargon known as 'Geordie' since they were developed in Northumberland and Durham. Colin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:05 Subject: Re: [NSP] tchuning Hi Colin,What is the 'lug'?Samgt; If you can be bothered to read this after all that has been going on it gt; concerns the use of the 'lug' to tune the chanter and little theory. gt; gt; gt; The notes to be tuned are the three that make up the Major Triad or gt; Doh,MeSo,or Tonic,major Third and Fifth intervals. gt; gt; gt; Start with the G drone on and do the G,B and D notes. gt; gt; gt; With the D drone on and the G switched off, tune in D, F# and A. gt; gt; gt; With the A drone switched on ( tuning bead on G drone) and the rest off, gt; tune in A,C# and E. gt; gt; gt; This leaves you with the middle C which is tuned as? fourth interval gt; against the original G drone. gt; gt; gt; That is the limit to which you can tune the chanter as if you try to tune gt; against E for those E minor tunes you will find the middle B too sharp for gt; the rest. Strangely enough the E note does not seem to be too sharp for gt; ! the D an A drones to play against. This is called Mean tuning and any gt; tuning issues can be corrected by means of bag pressure. Jack Armstrong gt; was adept at this as I found out when I was asked to service his pipes gt; where the chanter needed coaxing to play in tune. gt; gt; gt; If you want a tune to test your chanter try Carnaval of Venice which gt; covers all those middle notes. gt; gt; gt; Cheers, gt; gt; gt; Colin gt; gt; gt; ? gt; gt; gt; gt; AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the gt; move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. gt; gt; -- gt; gt; To get on or off this list see list information at gt; http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html gt; AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tchuning
So they carry you by the ears in your part of the world eh? Sorry, couldn't help myself. It seems that the word lug actually referred to an ear before it referred to a projection (Middle English lugge - an earflap possibly of Scandinavian origin) but is listed as an alternative for ear first in Scotland. Fascinating the study of etymology. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Ian Lawther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: colin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: tchuning As the Oxford Dictionary defines lug as a Projection on an object by which it may be carried, fixed in place, etc I would have thought the adaptation to ears (as projections on the head) would be fairly common throughout the English speaking world. Ian colin wrote: Isn't that the fellow from Walker's crisps sitting in that boat? Lugs (or expanded to lug-holes) is a common expression in Liverpool as well (as in pin back your lug-holes meaning to listen and pay attention). having Googled a little (as a rest from choyting) it varies from a Scottish word to a cockney one if it was confined to industrial areas, maybe our roving shipworkers carried it around the country. However, it's also down as from the Shetland Isles (lug=ear) in the Shetland Dictionary. Also claimed by Norfolk with the addition of the word luggy as meaning deaf. Not really the height of either industry or shipbuilding there, I think. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: tchuning No, it's a sort of sail, hence Lugger. Isn't it? Or was that a boat with big ears sticking out each side to catch the wind? Richard. Ormston, Chris wrote: And here was me thinking that the 'lug' might be an ancient tool fashioned from a curlew's beak by the early Christian monks of Lindisfarne to tune their Northumbrian pipes, or perhaps a form of sheep tick that the shepherds had somehow domesticated and taught to carve out the fingerholes while they played their pipes to their flocks. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 August 2008 13:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: tchuning Dear Sam, The 'lugs' are a pair of devices situated on either side of the head as in ' If yi divent shurrup aal giv yi a belt across the lugs.'?You may need to look it up in a Geordie Dictionary. I am afraid that NSP's come with a bit of local jargon known as 'Geordie' since they were developed in Northumberland and Durham. Colin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:05 Subject: Re: [NSP] tchuning Hi Colin,What is the 'lug'?Samgt; If you can be bothered to read this after all that has been going on it gt; concerns the use of the 'lug' to tune the chanter and little theory. gt; gt; gt; The notes to be tuned are the three that make up the Major Triad or gt; Doh,MeSo,or Tonic,major Third and Fifth intervals. gt; gt; gt; Start with the G drone on and do the G,B and D notes. gt; gt; gt; With the D drone on and the G switched off, tune in D, F# and A. gt; gt; gt; With the A drone switched on ( tuning bead on G drone) and the rest off, gt; tune in A,C# and E. gt; gt; gt; This leaves you with the middle C which is tuned as? fourth interval gt; against the original G drone. gt; gt; gt; That is the limit to which you can tune the chanter as if you try to tune gt; against E for those E minor tunes you will find the middle B too sharp for gt; the rest. Strangely enough the E note does not seem to be too sharp for gt; ! the D an A drones to play against. This is called Mean tuning and any gt; tuning issues can be corrected by means of bag pressure. Jack Armstrong gt; was adept at this as I found out when I was asked to service his pipes gt; where the chanter needed coaxing to play in tune. gt; gt; gt; If you want a tune to test your chanter try Carnaval of Venice which gt; covers all those middle notes. gt; gt; gt; Cheers, gt; gt; gt; Colin gt; gt; gt; ? gt; gt; gt; gt; AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the gt; move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. gt; gt; -- gt; gt; To get on or off this list see list information at gt; http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html gt; AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code
[NSP] Re: the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds...
Mainly at Adrian House in Aigburth but that was in the 80's and I didn't start on the pipes until 1972 although before that we spent several years at the Lamb Hotel in Wavertree (upstairs, huge cavern of a room with some buffalo horns over the side stage - coal fires and freezing cold in the winter - our audiences collapsed after a long bus strike in the 60's and never recovered . It was held in a building run by the Knights of St. Columba and had an enormous crucifix on the back wall which always caused concern to those singing the more risqué songs :) We did have Alistair Anderson as a guest on one occasion and his playing of the pipes went down a treat (I still have that on cassette somewhere) and Canny Fettle (Pipes made by the same chap that made mine - Bill Hedworth) so we did our bit . Dreadful name for our trio/duo of The Thatchers - selected by Barney from the Dubliners from a list of two or three names. There was a fashion for calling groups from traditional trades then - Spinners, Weavers, Farriers etc. Bad move. We went down pretty fast when a certain Iron Lady came to power. On reflection, we weren't that good (pretty bad, actually) but very enthusiastic! Colin Hill - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: *** SPAM *** RE: [NSP] Re: the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds... There were many Folk clubs during the 60's - 80's including a few excellent traditional clubs (I ran one - and played my pipes there Which one was that? I was quite active on the folk scene in Liverpool in the mid-60s but had only ever encountered nsp on record (played by colin ross accompanying louis killen on derwentwater farewell). Strange our crossths didn't path ;-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds...
Jim and Shirley were usually found at Gregson's Well on a Tuesday (been there, sung there) along with John ? (his nickname was Yogi) who formed the Carlton three. Great traditional performers although I haven't seen them for years (if they are still alive, of course). There was, at that time, one other piper in Liverpool (I heard him play at St Sebastian's Folk club in the mid 70's but never saw him again. He was pretty good. If he's on this. please list give us a wave! Cross Keys? Yes, went there as well - the formidable Tony Wilson in charge (Bothy ) with his captain's hat. Great days for folk. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds... Ah, I left in 1968 and have not been back much since. Coach House and Jim Peden's were main venues. Only played guitar (and just started fiddle when I left) in those days, so sessions were not much of an option - I didn't want to be yet another annoying thrasher, even if I could get my head round the rhythms of slip jigs and dorrington lads ;-), which I confess in those less enlightened days I thought was called Byker Hill ... So it goes chirs. -Original Message- From: Ormston, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:06 PM To: BIRCH Christopher (DGT); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds... Me too! Used to go to the Liverpool Trad Club at the Cross Keys in the early 80s, and the Baltic Fleet, the Grapes on Matthew Street, and the shorter-lived Brook House Club, and made occasional forays to the Bothy in Southport. I mostly played in sessions though at the Cracke, the Nelson on the Dock Road, the Irish Centre and a pub somewhere behind the Philharmonic Hall, the name of which escapes me. Most memorable, though was a session on board the Irish Oak which was docked near the Nelson - had to give a backhander to the security man at the dock gates to get in, and nearly got arrested trying to leave again as we were mistaken for illegal immigrants! Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 August 2008 10:38 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds... There were many Folk clubs during the 60's - 80's including a few excellent traditional clubs (I ran one - and played my pipes there Which one was that? I was quite active on the folk scene in Liverpool in the mid-60s but had only ever encountered nsp on record (played by colin ross accompanying louis killen on derwentwater farewell). Strange our crossths didn't path ;-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
[NSP] Re: More choyting!
Nope. My pipes were quite a bit out and it took me around 15 years or more to realise that they needed some work doing on them as I just couldn't get some of the notes to sound in tune regardless of pressing the bag harder, pressing really hard on the holes, blowing fag smoke down the chanter to check for leaks etc. It can take a long time to realise that it ISN'T you that's the problem and it really IS the set. Of course, they didn't go back to the maker (he was no longer with us) but went to CR who did a great job on them and it was worth every penny - you can see little black marks where he had to fill and redrill some of the holes although I had to re-learn where to put my fingers all over again - some were quite a bit away from where they were.). Maybe I should have realised it hadn't quite been finished when there was no hole on the G drone under the collar to tune it to A - I had to drill that myself but the maker was very elderly and in poor health by then and the set was a joy to look at). OK, that's a little extreme but it should (I hope) be pretty obvious to the maker that he didn't quite tune that note regardless of how long ago he/she made it. You do, after all, get a 12 month guarantee if you buy a toaster from Comet. That's all assuming you haven't actually done anything to them yourself with undercutting or filing the hole down. I would think the maker would be rather keen to make sure they were in perfect order. I hope so anyway. What's the worst they could say You plonker, couldn't you tell it was wrong in 9 months - you plantpot or no. Believe me, the enjoyment you will get when it's in tune will be well worth the risk! Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Wright Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: More choyting! Not a bad idea, the problem I've got though is I've only just realised and it's been around 9 months. I know it's stupid, but I've had absolute pitch ever since I was a kid, which means that developing relative pitch was something I only recently realised the importance of (shameful thing to say as a professional musician) - when you factor in that I'm already dealing with thinking g and hearing something that's threatening to be an F if it calms down a bit, I think it threw me as to whether the E was a little flat or not. I'd feel foolish going back now and saying - I've just realised your pipes are out of tune - then again, I suppose it's worth a try. Do you think 9 months is too long to still be expecting the original maker to sort it out ? Allan Le 27 août 08 à 19:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : On 27 Aug 2008, Wright Allan wrote: Does anyone have a solution (other than the kicking option, which I'm considering) Send it back to the maker and tell him / her to put it right. If this doesn't work find another maker who *can* fix it for you - or reject the pipes as unplayable and get your money back, then find a better set. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: More choyting!
I think that's what I was trying to express and the classical/jazz example is how I think of it. I am very much in favour of a rigid set of competition rules (he/she who choytes loses) but any musical instrument is open to the interpretation of the individual player. True, they should first be able to play correctly and, once they can, be free to experiment. Again, someone suggested a car with the doors that drop off like the clowns have. Clowns have to be very skilled gymnasts to do those falls without hurting themselves and, only when they have become skilled in the art can go on to clowning. Alas, we do have some players (hangs head in shame) who haven't reached that standard and so choyte away because it sounds nice for that particular tune or because they haven't the skill to play with closed fingering (a good choyte can hide a multitude of fumbles and mistakes). maybe we should have a society red nose for such players :) Can I put my name down now. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: More choyting! What about the Three Tenors doing doing all that warbling at the end of O Sole Mio. It was done in fun and because they could do it and it went down a storm. Why can't we do the same thing on our pipes if we want to for fun and mischief to get laughter and response from our listeners?which is probably the main thing we are trying to do in playing in public (you could do it in a forest as well even if no one is listening). Something like jazz compared to classical playing. Cromwell would have been proud of this strict puritanical rule of no more than one finger off at a time that Clough is supposed to have advocated. Colin -Original Message- From: Ormston, Chris lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: colin lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:03 Subject: [NSP] Re: More choyting! Colin said:I often wonder why the style of playing causes so much attention and why the odd choyte causes so much concern..Imagine if Pavarotti had thrown in the odd yodel in Nessun Dorma, and you'll get the idea! lt;gringt;ChrisThe information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.To get on or off this list see list information at htt! p://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds...
Er, I have lived in Liverpool since 1954. (Welsh by birth). I'm sure Newcastle has areas one would not venture into at night as well (yes, I have been there). Liverpool is also rather well known for it's musical heritage (and not just it's pop heritage). There were many Folk clubs during the 60's - 80's including a few excellent traditional clubs (I ran one - and played my pipes there which few people had ever heard of then and got quite a few plugs for the LP Wild Hills o'Wannie which people went out and bought). My roots? A fishing village in Anglesey North Wales. My home? Liverpool and quite happy here. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [NSP] the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds... Allan wrote: Why the condescending groan at my desire to play the instrument of my youth, I simply find it hard to understand why anyone would play any musical instrument for any reason other than musical. I grew up in Northumberland. I miss it. Without any irony or sarcasm, I understand entirely. I wish I'd grown up in a place worth missing rather than in Scumbag City. I play the pipes for that reason. Does that not fit into your statement?= Hmmm... all I can say is that I just don't get it. I too live abroad - have done for 36 years - but I don't see how choosing to play a particular instrument would reconnect me to my youth (assuming that that would be a good thing). Cheers (and not wishing to be unpleasant in any way). Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: It's not the leaving of Liverpool that grieves me -- quite the opposite!
We were quite happy to get rid of him (in fact, after that comment, his topiary figure outside the South Parkway park 'n' ride station suddenly had no head (it's been replaced now). I have visited many cities in the UK and abroad and haven't found any I prefer. Mind you we could probably turn all the southerners into real human beings. I avoid the IOM, don't trust people with 3 legs. inveterate choyters, if you ask me :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:57 PM Subject: [NSP] It's not the leaving of Liverpool that grieves me -- quite the opposite! Colin Hill wrote Er, I have lived in Liverpool since 1954. Don't worry, it's never too late to leave. As you probably heard on the news last week, the government has plans for disposing of Liverpool and moving everyone down to the southeast. Not missing Liverpool has also recently been approved by St. Ringo Starr. Cheers, Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The great choyte debate redux
I think we should also take into account that competition standard often (in fact invariably) differs from general playing (where experimentation in styles etc may be a means of learning about an instrument and it's capabilities). We often adapt rules to suit ourselves when in a less formal mode (does anyone really buy or auction every street they land on in Monopoly - I have actually never met anyone that does - you just keep going around until you land on the one you want in my circles). That changes when in competition or when training for competition.(And I'm all for retaining a standard, accepted way of playing of course) when it is important that a set of exact rules be met rather than trusting to one's own point of view regarding the sound made. They don't give points in the Olympics just because it looked nice even if it was an illegal move (how's that for sneaking in a topical remark). Maybe we should divide the Island into two with choyters at one end and non-choyters at the other in a Lilliputian style? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Ian Lawther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 6:54 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: The great choyte debate redux Sorry if I was a little rambly last night but I think you have picked up on the point I was making. Some traditions are looser than others and offer players greater freedoms within the traditional style. Others are more limited and the real skill comes from playing musically within those limits. I have also observed uilleann chanters being less standard in their design so that different pipers will use different fingerings to achieve the same note. This may have been behind the comment on not watching actual finger positions but listening to the sound and working out how to reproduce it. This is not something that would happen on a Northumbrian chanter. Ian Ian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Ian, I'm not getting your point..are you saying it's OK for Uilleann pipers to 'carve out their own sound'. But it's not for OK for Northumbrian pipers? .. Steve D -- Original message -- From: Ian Lawther [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chris Ormston wrote: PS Sorry to ramble - been in the.. http://chrisormston.com/Documents/Bridge_End.pdf Sorry your evening was spent in such a manner , Chris. I spent my Saturday night at a house concert here in Seattle with Paddy Keenan, with red wine in hand. A month that started with Chris Ormson and ended with Keenan could only be better if someone resurrected Gordon Duncan in my back garden! But more importantly I found it interesting watching Mr. Keenan's fingers for there were times when his finger positions did not correspond to any tutor I have read for the instrument. But I also remembered a comment from a class I saw led by Kevin Rowsome where he said don't watch my fingers, listen to the sound and try to carve it out for yourselves . If you spend time around uilleann pipers you will find this is what they are doing. I fear that there are those in Northumbrian piping who are uilleann pipe wannabes who distort the Northumbrian tradition to fit the Irish mold by choyting and even sliding to make the music more interesting by carving out their own sound. Sorry if I am rambling..I claim the same excuse as Chris (but with uilleann overtones...) Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The great choyte debate redux
I have this vivid mental image of a poor piper being met with a slow hand clap and the cries of choyte choyte choyte after a rendition where he/she slipped one in in a moment of mental aberration. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: The great choyte debate redux There's an Arvo Part piece, Credo, which starts quoting Bach in C major, then as that introduces an accidental, Part introduces more and more, till the 'harmony' consists of a nasty 12-note cluster. I heard him talking about the piece, and he said that first modulation was like original sin, introducing evil into the world. Maybe we should regard the odd 'ornamental' choyte in the same way - the beginning of a slippery slope. But let him who is without sin John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 August 2008 11:47 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: The great choyte debate redux It might have saved us from that Maxwell-Davis stuff grin Not to mention Mozart and the Beatles ;-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
