[NSP] Re: [NSP]
What is this email about? Doesn't seem to have anything to do with Piping. Marianne. Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 15:36:20 -0400 To: barne...@gmail.com; edt1...@cox.net; carol...@ticklehallcross.co.uk; pbtand...@gmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; amca...@cox.net; joe.bea...@alexandriava.gov; amanda.up...@alexandriava.gov; dpekr...@goodwinhouse.org From: hbabc...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] http://rtmpakistan.org/hslkgs.html?zreu=agnbps -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: [NSP]
Quite simply, it's spam. This particular email appears to be doing the rounds at the moment on many groups including Google and Yahoo. Someone, somewhere, has had their address book hacked. Any mail like this should be deleted and not opened. I doubt anyone in a group would send a link with no covering information anyway. Run a virus check and malware check if you opened it - sometimes the sites linked to have nasty things hidden in them! Colin Hill On 10/07/2012 10:35, Marianne Hall wrote: What is this email about? Doesn't seem to have anything to do with Piping. Marianne. Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 15:36:20 -0400 To: barne...@gmail.com; edt1...@cox.net; carol...@ticklehallcross.co.uk; pbtand...@gmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; amca...@cox.net; joe.bea...@alexandriava.gov; amanda.up...@alexandriava.gov; dpekr...@goodwinhouse.org From: hbabc...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] http://rtmpakistan.org/hslkgs.html?zreu=agnbps -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virus Database: 2437/5122 - Release Date: 07/09/12 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virus Database: 2437/5122 - Release Date: 07/09/12
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
Hi All, The ivorycould possibly be walrus. Goeff Wooff used old walrus pieces that I think he bought in NZ years ago in the limited number of sets of pipes that he made. Then again am happy to be proven wrong!! Regards, Guy T --- On Wed, 15/2/12, John Dally dir...@gmail.com wrote: From: John Dally dir...@gmail.com Subject: [NSP] NSP spotted on ebay UK To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 15 February, 2012, 16:23 [1][1]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456? pt=UK_ Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 Can anyone identify the maker? I am not associated with the sale or interested in bidding on them. Just curious. -- References 1. [2]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_ Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_ 2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
A lot of the ivory actually came from old billiard and snooker balls as well and a lot of of them (and other ivory work) came from mammoth tusks from Russia. Europeans used ivory mainly for piano keys and cutlery handles! I remember being advised to look out for them to make some bits for the pipes - mind you, that was when the recommended cane source was flower baskets from Spain :) I never did get any as my attempt to make a set went very, very wrong when the drill came out of the side of the chanter and I realised it was beyond me! I think I still have a few pieces of lignum hanging around somewhere though (drone size). Hippo teeth are a common source as well (and sperm whale teeth) and anything from a mammal tooth is ivory. All a bit gross really. Mammoth ivory is still legal. I'd rather have plastic myself. Colin Hill On 17/02/2012 21:21, Guy Tindale wrote: Hi All, The ivorycould possibly be walrus. Goeff Wooff used old walrus pieces that I think he bought in NZ years ago in the limited number of sets of pipes that he made. Then again am happy to be proven wrong!! Regards, Guy T --- On Wed, 15/2/12, John Dallydir...@gmail.com wrote: - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4815 - Release Date: 02/17/12 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4815 - Release Date: 02/17/12 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
If that recent footage of a mammoth-shaped object fording a river in Chukhotka in the Russian Far East turns out not to have been faked, then presumably the species goes on the CITES list pretty sharpish, and carrying smallpipes across borders gets harder... John In a message dated 17/02/2012 21:48:50 GMT Standard Time, cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk writes: A lot of the ivory actually came from old billiard and snooker balls as well and a lot of of them (and other ivory work) came from mammoth tusks from Russia. Europeans used ivory mainly for piano keys and cutlery handles! I remember being advised to look out for them to make some bits for the pipes - mind you, that was when the recommended cane source was flower baskets from Spain :) I never did get any as my attempt to make a set went very, very wrong when the drill came out of the side of the chanter and I realised it was beyond me! I think I still have a few pieces of lignum hanging around somewhere though (drone size). Hippo teeth are a common source as well (and sperm whale teeth) and anything from a mammal tooth is ivory. All a bit gross really. Mammoth ivory is still legal. I'd rather have plastic myself. Colin Hill On 17/02/2012 21:21, Guy Tindale wrote: Hi All, The ivorycould possibly be walrus. Goeff Wooff used old walrus pieces that I think he bought in NZ years ago in the limited number of sets of pipes that he made. Then again am happy to be proven wrong!! Regards, Guy T --- On Wed, 15/2/12, John Dallydir...@gmail.com wrote: - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4815 - Release Date: 02/17/12 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4815 - Release Date: 02/17/12 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
Hello Mike I agree there is nothing of the Hedworth style in this set - keys especially. Hedworth taught silver smithing to Colin Ross and was a master of beautiful keywork. His style is unique with the key stem shaped and silver soldered to reach completely across the domed round bit (hope my technical language if not too baffling). There is a good sample of various makers' keywork at the bottom of this page: [1]http://www.robbpipes.com/WindyGyleBand.html Hedworth made the ivory (G) chanter and it has absolutely typical Hedworth keys. As aye Anthony From: Mike Sharp mike_sh...@pacbell.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2012, 22:28 Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK Colin Hill writes: I saw a distinct Hedworth look in the chanter but note it's brass fittings. He, I think, used NS (he did on mine) and there's more ivory on this one. I pretty sure this isn't Bill Hedworth's work. I don't see his distinctive rolled (crimped) line that he used to anchor the metalwork to the wood, and the keys are also of a style different that what I'm use to seeing in his work. --Mike -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/WindyGyleBand.html 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
I didn't look at the larger images :( Quite different and, as you say, especially the keys. Bill's are a work of art in themselves. Should really have looked at my own set before replying. The only other chanters I have seen (and not that many) have been rather heavy and thick which made me think it may have been his. Again, even looking at the woodwork says it's not. My humble apologies for being too idle to look and replying without thinking. Colin Hill On 16/02/2012 08:49, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Mike I agree there is nothing of the Hedworth style in this set - keys especially. Hedworth taught silver smithing to Colin Ross and was a master of beautiful keywork. His style is unique with the key stem shaped and silver soldered to reach completely across the domed round bit (hope my technical language if not too baffling). There is a good sample of various makers' keywork at the bottom of this page: [1]http://www.robbpipes.com/WindyGyleBand.html Hedworth made the ivory (G) chanter and it has absolutely typical Hedworth keys. As aye Anthony - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4813 - Release Date: 02/16/12 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4813 - Release Date: 02/16/12 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
First of all, I must apologise to Anthony for sending my first reply to him rather than the list. This was a finger slip. What I wrote was: As far as I can see, these pipes bear none of the features I would expect in Hedworth pipes. In particular, Anthony Robb wrote: His style is unique with the key stem shaped and silver soldered to reach completely across the domed round bit. Close examination of the third photograph shows keys with pads which are far more reminiscent of David Burleigh (for instance) although the touch ends do have the bulk I would expect from Hedworth. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
On 15/02/2012 16:23, John Dally wrote: [1]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_ Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 Can anyone identify the maker? I am not associated with the sale or interested in bidding on them. Just curious. -- References 1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html I think it's the late Ron Blake of Alderly Edge, Cheshire. Adrian
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
Doh! I did reply but sent it to the original sender instead of well you know the rest. I saw a distinct Hedworth look in the chanter but note it's brass fittings. He, I think, used NS (he did on mine) and there's more ivory on this one. I always thought of Bill's as very neat and slim so maybe a follower. The case looks too new for Bill as well. Colin Hill. On 15/02/2012 21:55, Adrian wrote: On 15/02/2012 16:23, John Dally wrote: [1]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_ Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 Can anyone identify the maker? I am not associated with the sale or interested in bidding on them. Just curious. -- References 1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html I think it's the late Ron Blake of Alderly Edge, Cheshire. Adrian - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4811 - Release Date: 02/15/12 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4811 - Release Date: 02/15/12 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4811 - Release Date: 02/15/12
[NSP] Re: NSP spotted on ebay UK
Colin Hill writes: I saw a distinct Hedworth look in the chanter but note it's brass fittings. He, I think, used NS (he did on mine) and there's more ivory on this one. I pretty sure this isn't Bill Hedworth's work. I don't see his distinctive rolled (crimped) line that he used to anchor the metalwork to the wood, and the keys are also of a style different that what I'm use to seeing in his work. --Mike -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [NSP] Fwd: Re: [NSP] Re: Re:
Hi Francis, I joined the NPS in 1991 as expat, the magazine was really the only contact I had with piping. Later the problems of payment caused so much hassle I left perhaps 10 years later. I joined the LBPS because they had payment by bankcard and they were more towards musicology, making and development so I personally got more out of it than I did from the NPS. So far in 20 years I have just managed to visit the Chantry once and never any competitions, so, I think from my present standpoint, that I would not really get much from re-joining. I believed that Common Stock had much more content on all aspects of bellows piping, and I have not yet heard of any reason, so far, to make me change my opinion. I am in no way knocking the NPS in any way, I have no idea what it is like !, but I have interests in bellows piping that go in parallel and beyond NSP and its specialized field so for now I remain yours Dave SA (ps their web site is worth a visit though lbps.net) A Francis Wood wrote: On 1 Jul 2011, at 20:39, david...@pt.lu wrote: How about posting the article here? There are lots of people who are interested but are not NPS members Hi Dave, I think you've made quite a good case here for joining the NPS. Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
On 13 Jan 2011, Victor Eskenazi wrote: for the verdigris. . . in this country we have a clear liquid ... rubbing or isopropyl alcohol. turns out it works to get rid of the green IPA will degrease everything in sight, but is a bit drastic. Sold in the UK as a computer cleaning fluid. Good for degreasing springs and metal slots, but it'll take oil out of your wrappings too which you don't want. The one we have in the UK is a form of ethyl alcohol which has been adulterated so it can't be drunk. Could someone fluent in both forms of English translate methylated spirit into USA-speak, please? until now i have used, i thought successfully - cold press, extra virgin, olive oil. aaargh!No wonder. If you must use olive oil you want the cheapest, nastiest, hot presssed clear cheapy variety - the exact reverse of what you have used. Or use neatsfoot oil (from a saddlers, but make sure it's pure oil, not neatsfoot compound which has water in it). Or liquid paraffin/mineral oil / baby oil / baby gel (another terminology minefield) a while ago i remember there was some discussion of oils. . . And then another one, and then another one. Its one of the recurrent topics. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
I think it's called denatured alcohol. Martin On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 11:31 +, Julia Say wrote: On 13 Jan 2011, Victor Eskenazi wrote: for the verdigris. . . in this country we have a clear liquid ... rubbing or isopropyl alcohol. turns out it works to get rid of the green IPA will degrease everything in sight, but is a bit drastic. Sold in the UK as a computer cleaning fluid. Good for degreasing springs and metal slots, but it'll take oil out of your wrappings too which you don't want. The one we have in the UK is a form of ethyl alcohol which has been adulterated so it can't be drunk. Could someone fluent in both forms of English translate methylated spirit into USA-speak, please? until now i have used, i thought successfully - cold press, extra virgin, olive oil. aaargh!No wonder. If you must use olive oil you want the cheapest, nastiest, hot presssed clear cheapy variety - the exact reverse of what you have used. Or use neatsfoot oil (from a saddlers, but make sure it's pure oil, not neatsfoot compound which has water in it). Or liquid paraffin/mineral oil / baby oil / baby gel (another terminology minefield) a while ago i remember there was some discussion of oils. . . And then another one, and then another one. Its one of the recurrent topics. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
The walking site I use tells me it denatured alcohol you put what we would call a meths stove Mike -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Julia Say Sent: 14 January 2011 11:32 To: Victor Eskenazi Cc: Northumbrian Small Pipes Subject: [NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ... On 13 Jan 2011, Victor Eskenazi wrote: for the verdigris. . . in this country we have a clear liquid ... rubbing or isopropyl alcohol. turns out it works to get rid of the green IPA will degrease everything in sight, but is a bit drastic. Sold in the UK as a computer cleaning fluid. Good for degreasing springs and metal slots, but it'll take oil out of your wrappings too which you don't want. The one we have in the UK is a form of ethyl alcohol which has been adulterated so it can't be drunk. Could someone fluent in both forms of English translate methylated spirit into USA-speak, please? until now i have used, i thought successfully - cold press, extra virgin, olive oil. aaargh!No wonder. If you must use olive oil you want the cheapest, nastiest, hot presssed clear cheapy variety - the exact reverse of what you have used. Or use neatsfoot oil (from a saddlers, but make sure it's pure oil, not neatsfoot compound which has water in it). Or liquid paraffin/mineral oil / baby oil / baby gel (another terminology minefield) a while ago i remember there was some discussion of oils. . . And then another one, and then another one. Its one of the recurrent topics. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
Hello Mike Ian Corrigan recommends lemon oil as a pleasant, not too viscious cleaning liquid. It also, he reckons, gives wood a near invisible but protective coat. I haven't tried it but think it might be worth a try. The border pipes he made for Paul Martin are a visual and sonic delight so I'm very happy to take his word on this. Anthony --- On Fri, 14/1/11, Mike Dixon msdi...@btinternet.com wrote: From: Mike Dixon msdi...@btinternet.com Subject: [NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ... To: 'Northumbrian Small Pipes' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 14 January, 2011, 11:49 The walking site I use tells me it denatured alcohol you put what we would call a meths stove Mike -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Julia Say Sent: 14 January 2011 11:32 To: Victor Eskenazi Cc: Northumbrian Small Pipes Subject: [NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ... On 13 Jan 2011, Victor Eskenazi wrote: for the verdigris. . . in this country we have a clear liquid ... rubbing or isopropyl alcohol. turns out it works to get rid of the green IPA will degrease everything in sight, but is a bit drastic. Sold in the UK as a computer cleaning fluid. Good for degreasing springs and metal slots, but it'll take oil out of your wrappings too which you don't want. The one we have in the UK is a form of ethyl alcohol which has been adulterated so it can't be drunk. Could someone fluent in both forms of English translate methylated spirit into USA-speak, please? until now i have used, i thought successfully - cold press, extra virgin, olive oil. aaargh!No wonder. If you must use olive oil you want the cheapest, nastiest, hot presssed clear cheapy variety - the exact reverse of what you have used. Or use neatsfoot oil (from a saddlers, but make sure it's pure oil, not neatsfoot compound which has water in it). Or liquid paraffin/mineral oil / baby oil / baby gel (another terminology minefield) a while ago i remember there was some discussion of oils. . . And then another one, and then another one. Its one of the recurrent topics. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
Den 14-01-2011 13:42, Anthony Robb skrev: Hello Mike Ian Corrigan recommends lemon oil as a pleasant, not too viscious cleaning liquid. It also, he reckons, gives wood a near invisible but protective coat. I haven't tried it but think it might be worth a try. The border pipes he made for Paul Martin are a visual and sonic delight so I'm very happy to take his word on this. Anthony Hi Anthony - and every one else ! Forgive me for being a little of a spoilsport with my warnings and explanations - but : Yes, lemon oil is an effective cleaning agent. However it is a bit more agressive that it may appear at first. Care should be taken to keep it off anything painted or lacquered and also it tends to break down many plastic-materials in a slow process that may not become noticed before tiny cracks begin to develop in the plastic long time after the lemon oil was used. Bo Albrechtsen -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
On 14 Jan 2011, Bo Albrechtsen wrote: /Julia is perfectly right/ in exclaiming her gh ! Thank you, I have been well trained! Vegetable oil such as the cold press, extra virgin etc in time any such oil will change from being an oil and into first a gummy substance ...which was known as a snotomer in the Polymer Research Unit in which I spent 10 years as a technician. As I've said before. Wonderful term, so descriptive and generally recognisable. Olive oil will solidify a lot slower than linseed oil but it will become sticky and gluey relatively fast Particularly when in contact with metals such as brass and nickel silver whose components are sometimes part of catalysts - ie they speed the process up. Which I'm convinced doesn't help. Paraffin oil/liquid paraffin etc etc is a mineral-oil product which is cheap, not drying and does not smell at all. It does tend to evaporate however very slowly over time I have observed a tendency for it to start causing rotting of the cotton threads that I use, a process I'm still keeping an eye on and I'm not drawing any conclusions yet. At present it's just something to bear in mind. Others disagree. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
Hello Julia Bo Thanks for the warning. To be fair to Ian he's the sort of guy that doesn't laquer his pipes or use plastic mounts. He was recommending this purely for keeping natural wood and nickel silver clean and looking good. On the olive oil question those who used/use it (Clough, Caisley, Hillery, Nelson et al) were from the era when it was sold in 50ml bottles from the chemists to soften ear wax. It was/is probably the (almost) pure triester (between glycerol and oleic acid) and so being short on tasty bits (including minute bits of olive) it would have been reasonable to use. Mike Nelson still uses it and reckons if you look after your pipes/play them regularly it will be problem free. But, as Julia so rightly says, opinion is divided! Anyone remember a similar line in The Dosing of the Hoggs? A very kittle business. Anthony --- On Fri, 14/1/11, Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: From: Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ... To: 'Northumbrian Small Pipes' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 14 January, 2011, 14:33 On 14 Jan 2011, Bo Albrechtsen wrote: . Care should be taken to keep it off anything painted or lacquered and also it tends to break down many plastic-materials in a slow process that may not become noticed before tiny cracks begin to develop in the plastic long time after the lemon oil was used. So possibly deleterious to alternative ivory unless you want that antique cracked chanter foot look! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
Den 14-01-2011 15:27, Julia Say skrev: snip... Paraffin oil/liquid paraffin etc etc is a mineral-oil product which is cheap, not drying and does not smell at all. It does tend to evaporate however very slowly over time I have observed a tendency for it to start causing rotting of the cotton threads that I use, a process I'm still keeping an eye on and I'm not drawing any conclusions yet. At present it's just something to bear in mind. Others disagree. Julia Maybe the cause could be a gradual build up of fatty-acid components in the cotton threading. Also slightly parallell to this is maybe the fact that even lightly tarred hemp rope or line has substantially less tensile strength than clean hemp rope. BoA who still chuckles at the antique cracked chanter foot look :-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
On 14 Jan 2011, at 11:31, Julia Say replied: ( a while ago i remember there was some discussion of oils. . .) And then another one, and then another one. Its one of the recurrent topics. It's one of those things that has no definitive answer. Almost every option has a possible disadvantage as Dorothy Parker pointed out.: 'Résumé' Razors pain you; Rivers are damp; Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp. Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give; Gas smells awful; You might as well live. I haven't found the beginning of this thread so I don't know what actual use is being proposed for the oil. Is it for use in the bore? There are historical sources mentioning the use of bore oil (almond, I think) but these are for flutes and recorders as I remember, where an oxidised coating (in a comparatively large bore) will cause virtually no problem and may actually be beneficial. The only historical treatise relevant to the present discussion is Hotteterre's Méthode pour la Musette containing comprehensive maintenance instructions for this smallpipe, all of which are directly applicable to NSPs. He makes no mention of oiling either bore or key-pads. I don't think this is likely to be an accidental omission from such comprehensive instructions. More likely perhaps, it was thought that the oils then available then were likely to bring more problems than benefit in a very narrow bore. I don't know whether anyone has tried playing in an oxygen-free environment. Nobody has yet commented on this. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
Quantz swore by almond oil, and if Fritz's flute had suffered by it it would perhaps show in the historical record One problem is the speed of sound in nitrogen is not the same as in air. A way of coaxing the extra few cents out of a flat chanter would be to hook a nitrogen cylinder up to the bellows. Or helium if that isn't enough. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Francis Wood Sent: 14 January 2011 15:16 To: julia@nspipes.co.uk Cc: Northumbrian Small Pipes Subject: [NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ... On 14 Jan 2011, at 11:31, Julia Say replied: ( a while ago i remember there was some discussion of oils. . .) And then another one, and then another one. Its one of the recurrent topics. It's one of those things that has no definitive answer. Almost every option has a possible disadvantage as Dorothy Parker pointed out.: 'Résumé' Razors pain you; Rivers are damp; Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp. Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give; Gas smells awful; You might as well live. I haven't found the beginning of this thread so I don't know what actual use is being proposed for the oil. Is it for use in the bore? There are historical sources mentioning the use of bore oil (almond, I think) but these are for flutes and recorders as I remember, where an oxidised coating (in a comparatively large bore) will cause virtually no problem and may actually be beneficial. The only historical treatise relevant to the present discussion is Hotteterre's Méthode pour la Musette containing comprehensive maintenance instructions for this smallpipe, all of which are directly applicable to NSPs. He makes no mention of oiling either bore or key-pads. I don't think this is likely to be an accidental omission from such comprehensive instructions. More likely perhaps, it was thought that the oils then available then were likely to bring more problems than benefit in a very narrow bore. I don't know whether anyone has tried playing in an oxygen-free environment. Nobody has yet commented on this. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
Den 14-01-2011 16:43, Gibbons, John skrev: A way of coaxing the extra few cents out of a flat chanter would be to hook a nitrogen cylinder up to the bellows. Or helium if that isn't enough. John Hmm - this opens up a whole spectrum of technologically exuberant solutions for tuning your drones and chanter with a battery of small pressurized gas bottles and a multi-valve setup for variable continous mix-gas administration. Should look nice made in polished brass and with glass tube flow meters. Any steam-punkers out there ?? :-D BoA To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
On 14 Jan 2011, Bo Albrechtsen wrote: Hmm - this opens up a whole spectrum of technologically exuberant solutions for tuning your drones and chanter with a battery of small pressurized gas bottles and a multi-valve setup for variable continous mix-gas administration. Should look nice made in polished brass and with glass tube flow meters. Any steam-punkers out there ?? Come back, Fred Dibnah. You're needed!! grin Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
THANX Julia and Colin! I finally had the courage (had nightmares of the wood splitting apart) to pull out the heat gun. it worked easily! within a few minutes the joints let go ... aahhh ... there were 3 frozen joints - 1 is the joint with the valve that attaches to the bag. the other 2 were - both chanters into the adapter piece that fits into the main piece that fits in the bag. (having 2 different chanters, i could leave them in this adapter, and easily change the one i use) to answer your question... i live in the nw u.s.a. - a place known for it's humidity. for the verdigris. . . in this country we have a clear liquid ... rubbing or isopropyl alcohol. turns out it works to get rid of the green until now i have used, i thought successfully - cold press, extra virgin, olive oil. a while ago i remember there was some discussion of oils. . . i don't recall the favorites. which is your favorite oil? and Colin ... it turns out i have a favorite old (torn) silk shirt i couldn't throw out ... thanx for helping me find new life for it! thanx, again for your help victor On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 01:09, Julia Say [1]julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: On 8 Jan 2011, Victor Eskenazi wrote: my pipes have sat for too long 1 - the weather here is very damp Where is here (roughly)? turns out the joints are stuck. any suggestions on how to unstick them - without waiting for the right brief immersion in hot water or gently heating with a hot air gun on a lowish setting (depends on model), followed by a gentle twisting action. I'm assuming this is primarily the drone slides though the air gun would work on chanter stock joints too. Mind the chanter foot if it's plastic - the gun could melt it if used incautiously. And mind your fingers on any ferrule in the area you are heating. 2 - any suggestions on cleaning the green off the brass? Methylated spirit (the purple stuff in the UK -industrial alcohol elsewhere?), applied with a cloth, followed by brass polish. And don't use olive oil or keep your set shut in a box in the future - it aggravates the verdigris problem at the least. The jury is out on whether it actually causes it. Good luck Julia -- References 1. mailto:julia@nspipes.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [nsp] re-conditioning ...
On 8 Jan 2011, Victor Eskenazi wrote: my pipes have sat for too long 1 - the weather here is very damp Where is here (roughly)? turns out the joints are stuck. any suggestions on how to unstick them - without waiting for the right brief immersion in hot water or gently heating with a hot air gun on a lowish setting (depends on model), followed by a gentle twisting action. I'm assuming this is primarily the drone slides though the air gun would work on chanter stock joints too. Mind the chanter foot if it's plastic - the gun could melt it if used incautiously. And mind your fingers on any ferrule in the area you are heating. 2 - any suggestions on cleaning the green off the brass? Methylated spirit (the purple stuff in the UK -industrial alcohol elsewhere?), applied with a cloth, followed by brass polish. And don't use olive oil or keep your set shut in a box in the future - it aggravates the verdigris problem at the least. The jury is out on whether it actually causes it. Good luck Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP concertina
Hello - thank you John - very kind. I must of course point out that it's half NSP and half concertina - I don't actually have any tracks with both! If you're on this side of the pond, it's available from the record company (Veteran: www.veteran.co.uk), the Chantry have a stock and it's also available from numerous online retailers (specialist and mainstream). cheers Rob On 08/01/2011 07:09, John Dally wrote: As for NSP concertina, if you haven't yet listened to Rob Say's CD O'er Lang at the Fair Veteran (VT157CD) do yourself a favor and get a copy. I bought mine from www.bagpipediscs.com. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP and Hardanger Fiddle?
Some years ago, Joe Crane used to turn up at the Chantry in Morpeth towards the end of the evening with a pair of Hardanger fiddles. When we repaired to the local hostelry after the meeting (The Chambers or The Joiners as I remember), Joe would induce Colin to play one of them. We didnt play pipes in the pub, perhaps 'cos you couldnt play quietly or they couldn't be heard above the dominoes. Barry On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:48:46 -0400 Colin Everett colinever...@verizon.net wrote: Hello all, I was wondering if anyone had any experience playing along with a hardanger fiddle? If so, any general advice, or suggestions on tunes that work well with the two instruments (from either tradition)? Thanks, Colin Everett To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP and Hardanger Fiddle?
There is a band with posts on Youtube (if you google) which uses Hardanger fiddles and NSP. They are the same musician on different tracks. The band name is Lonely Reivers Zack Arbios On 9/11/2010 1:19 PM, Barry Say wrote: Some years ago, Joe Crane used to turn up at the Chantry in Morpeth towards the end of the evening with a pair of Hardanger fiddles. When we repaired to the local hostelry after the meeting (The Chambers or The Joiners as I remember), Joe would induce Colin to play one of them. We didnt play pipes in the pub, perhaps 'cos you couldnt play quietly or they couldn't be heard above the dominoes. Barry On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:48:46 -0400 Colin Everettcolinever...@verizon.net wrote: Hello all, I was wondering if anyone had any experience playing along with a hardanger fiddle? If so, any general advice, or suggestions on tunes that work well with the two instruments (from either tradition)? Thanks, Colin Everett To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Stringing of baroque violins is another can of worms since tension varied widely according to local conventions and personal preferences. There is also the question of equal tension versus progressive tension and whether wound strings should be used for the G and/or D. It is, or at least used to be, widely believed that baroque string tension was lower than modern. As Philip points out, this is not true - even though playing was generally less high-tension than modern violin playing. A good starting point for anyone interested is here: http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/hstvnst.html (I have no vested interests). It is interesting that modern baroque is an approximation of common 19th century practise. I have personally found that very slightly progressive tension using rows CDEF (all gut) for the ascending strings of a violin at A = 415 gives good results (strictly equal tension gives a very thick G string and a very thin E, which may be historically correct (cf. Leopold Mozart's treatise), but feels uncomfortable to my modern fingers). Some argue that equal tension really means equal feel anyway. DEFG would give similar results a semitone lower. I have also tried tuning a modern violin fitted with Dominant Heavy strings down to concert F and the results were good. I think the heavy versions of a lot of strings on the market today could give satisfactory tensions at lower pitch (especially the steel one, if you like that sort of thing). c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Gruar Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:37 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments Margaret's comment: When I'm playing duets with Andy's nsp, I always tune down. For me, I've spent a long time trying to find the right fiddle and strings so it doesn't sound like a kipper-box (or I hope it doesn't) when tuned lower. made me think, what about baroque violinists? Specialist baroque orchestras and soloists play at A=415 or a semitone lower than modern standard pitch and very occasionally even lower. This is getting on for low enough to play with standard-pitch Northumbrian pipes. Proper baroque violins have the neck set at a flatter angle than ordinary modern violins/fiddles (neck angle was increased in the 19th cent. among other things to enable higher string tension - louder tone). 18th century classical technique had a lot more in common with the playing styles of traditional music than modern classical technique does e.g. bow-hold, sometimes playing with fiddle held lower, using first position and open strings more etc. - and generally it was less high-tension than modern violin playing. This doesn't mean it lacks life, and good baroque violinists certainly don't sound as if they're playing on a kipper-box strung with knicker elastic. Would using specialist baroque-violin gut strings on a standard fiddle make for better results at the lower pitch? Just some thoughts from a non-string player, so excuse any ignorance shown! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Never tried Infeld. I'm not too keen on the medium dominants but the heavies work well for this purpose. Heavy Evah Pirazzi or Obbligato might do a good job too. I use the mediums on my normal fiddles. c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Di Jevons Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:44 AM To: phi...@gruar.clara.net; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments Hi there I play fiddle regularly with NSP at Alnwick Pipers' Society and find that my fiddle (which is a Magini copy and has a deep bassy tone) works well with Thomastik Infeld strings (red packet). I know very little technical gubbins, but do know that these particular strings enable me to get a lot more out of the tuned-down fiddle than the Dominant strings which I generally use on my 'normal' fiddle. Di Jevons - Original Message - From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: phi...@gruar.clara.net; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments Stringing of baroque violins is another can of worms since tension varied widely according to local conventions and personal preferences. There is also the question of equal tension versus progressive tension and whether wound strings should be used for the G and/or D. It is, or at least used to be, widely believed that baroque string tension was lower than modern. As Philip points out, this is not true - even though playing was generally less high-tension than modern violin playing. A good starting point for anyone interested is here: http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/hstvnst.html (I have no vested interests). It is interesting that modern baroque is an approximation of common 19th century practise. I have personally found that very slightly progressive tension using rows CDEF (all gut) for the ascending strings of a violin at A = 415 gives good results (strictly equal tension gives a very thick G string and a very thin E, which may be historically correct (cf. Leopold Mozart's treatise), but feels uncomfortable to my modern fingers). Some argue that equal tension really means equal feel anyway. DEFG would give similar results a semitone lower. I have also tried tuning a modern violin fitted with Dominant Heavy strings down to concert F and the results were good. I think the heavy versions of a lot of strings on the market today could give satisfactory tensions at lower pitch (especially the steel one, if you like that sort of thing). c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Gruar Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:37 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments Margaret's comment: When I'm playing duets with Andy's nsp, I always tune down. For me, I've spent a long time trying to find the right fiddle and strings so it doesn't sound like a kipper-box (or I hope it doesn't) when tuned lower. made me think, what about baroque violinists? Specialist baroque orchestras and soloists play at A=415 or a semitone lower than modern standard pitch and very occasionally even lower. This is getting on for low enough to play with standard-pitch Northumbrian pipes. Proper baroque violins have the neck set at a flatter angle than ordinary modern violins/fiddles (neck angle was increased in the 19th cent. among other things to enable higher string tension - louder tone). 18th century classical technique had a lot more in common with the playing styles of traditional music than modern classical technique does e.g. bow-hold, sometimes playing with fiddle held lower, using first position and open strings more etc. - and generally it was less high-tension than modern violin playing. This doesn't mean it lacks life, and good baroque violinists certainly don't sound as if they're playing on a kipper-box strung with knicker elastic. Would using specialist baroque-violin gut strings on a standard fiddle make for better results at the lower pitch? Just some thoughts from a non-string player, so excuse any ignorance shown! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
This is interesting to me as I have an unreconstructed baroque violin from about 1820 which is currently strung with Larsen strings and playing in G, wheras we also have a c.1900 czech violin strung with I know not what which is tuned down to F'n'abit for playing with nsp. Seems it might be better to have them the other way round. Am I right in thinking that before 1920ish and the current standardised concert pitch at G that many instruments' G was lower anyway, which would have led to lower tension anyway. Also is pitch purely dependent on tension, does the same tension in gut and metal and composite automatically produce the same pitch? and if not, were non gut strings made to emulate the pitch/tension combination of gut strings so as not to upset the structural tensions of a strung fiddle? Trouble is, if I tune down the baroque, which i prefer to play, I'll play the pipes less. Please don't let that affect the response of anyone who has heard me play, fiddle or pipes! Tim - Original Message - From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: phi...@gruar.clara.net; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments Stringing of baroque violins is another can of worms since tension varied widely according to local conventions and personal preferences. There is also the question of equal tension versus progressive tension and whether wound strings should be used for the G and/or D. It is, or at least used to be, widely believed that baroque string tension was lower than modern. As Philip points out, this is not true - even though playing was generally less high-tension than modern violin playing. A good starting point for anyone interested is here: http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/hstvnst.html (I have no vested interests). It is interesting that modern baroque is an approximation of common 19th century practise. I have personally found that very slightly progressive tension using rows CDEF (all gut) for the ascending strings of a violin at A = 415 gives good results (strictly equal tension gives a very thick G string and a very thin E, which may be historically correct (cf. Leopold Mozart's treatise), but feels uncomfortable to my modern fingers). Some argue that equal tension really means equal feel anyway. DEFG would give similar results a semitone lower. I have also tried tuning a modern violin fitted with Dominant Heavy strings down to concert F and the results were good. I think the heavy versions of a lot of strings on the market today could give satisfactory tensions at lower pitch (especially the steel one, if you like that sort of thing). c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Gruar Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:37 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments Margaret's comment: When I'm playing duets with Andy's nsp, I always tune down. For me, I've spent a long time trying to find the right fiddle and strings so it doesn't sound like a kipper-box (or I hope it doesn't) when tuned lower. made me think, what about baroque violinists? Specialist baroque orchestras and soloists play at A=415 or a semitone lower than modern standard pitch and very occasionally even lower. This is getting on for low enough to play with standard-pitch Northumbrian pipes. Proper baroque violins have the neck set at a flatter angle than ordinary modern violins/fiddles (neck angle was increased in the 19th cent. among other things to enable higher string tension - louder tone). 18th century classical technique had a lot more in common with the playing styles of traditional music than modern classical technique does e.g. bow-hold, sometimes playing with fiddle held lower, using first position and open strings more etc. - and generally it was less high-tension than modern violin playing. This doesn't mean it lacks life, and good baroque violinists certainly don't sound as if they're playing on a kipper-box strung with knicker elastic. Would using specialist baroque-violin gut strings on a standard fiddle make for better results at the lower pitch? Just some thoughts from a non-string player, so excuse any ignorance shown! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
This is interesting to me as I have an unreconstructed baroque violin from about 1820 Sorry Tim, but it ain't baroque . . True, this is very late to be referred to as baroque, but if it's unreconstructed it's probably closer to the baroque setup than a real modern violin. Maybe it was made by a conservative maker. As for don't fix it, I wish I had said that. (you will ... you will) c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
I have a smallish fiddle with a neck very similar to what is seen on baroque instruments. I have been told by a luthier friend, however, that it probably doesn't even predate 1900. I don't think makers and players have ever been all that conscientious about fitting in with the history books ;-) Hey, it's ca. 1660. we'd better start using wound strings! c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of tim rolls BT Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:42 AM To: Francis Wood Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments Hi Francis, I bow to your superior knowledge. I was told by someone that it was unreconstructed baroque since it has the flatter angle on the neck, with the cut away finger board to accomodate the belly curve. I understand that many fiddles of that era were improved by having the neck angle changed. Since I am a bit picky over correct definitions of vintage and veteran cars and the like, i am quite willing to accept that baroque is not the correct term for a fiddle of this age or construction. Any other info gratefully received. Has anyone else heard of a fiddle maker named Coulson from Stamfordham However, what about the rest of my questions? tim - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com Cc: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments On 10 Feb 2010, at 10:25, tim rolls BT wrote: This is interesting to me as I have an unreconstructed baroque violin from about 1820 Sorry Tim, but it ain't baroque . . Trouble is, if I tune down the baroque, which i prefer to play, I'll play the pipes less Well, if it ain't baroque, don't fix it! Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
On 10 Feb 2010, at 10:42, tim rolls BT wrote: However, what about the rest of my questions? Hi Tim Your other questions . . . Am I right in thinking that before 1920ish and the current standardised concert pitch at G that many instruments' G was lower anyway, which would have led to lower tension anyway. Others will know far more about that than I do. However I will say that the internationally agreed pitch of 'concert'A = 440Hz is not always followed faithfully and in modern orchestral practice is continuing to rise variably in individual cases. The 'baroque' pitch of A = 415Hz is a modern compromise-concept since pitch varied from town to town and court to church. Similarly an old French pitch is (for the sake of convenience) given as a very low A= 392 Hz. Leaving the consequent effect on knickers entirely apart, this is virtually the same pitch difference between our pipes and concert G. Also is pitch purely dependent on tension? Purely? No. But this is far too complex for me. I'd say that mass has a considerable effect, as well as material characteristics and the nature of the sound plate that the string is communicating with. The danger with such a question is that one might receive a full and comprehensive answer, which in such cases is usually to be regretted! Apologies for being so picky with the 'baroque violin' description. It does sound like an interesting instrument and it is fortunate to have escaped the 'improvements' which the vast number of Stradivari violins has received. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
I have a smallish fiddle with a neck very similar to what is seen on baroque instruments. I have beenold by a luthier friend, however, that it probably doesn't even predate 1900. I don't think makers and players have ever been all that conscientious about fitting in with the history books ;-) I believe country amateur fiddle makers would sometimes borrow the squire's violin and copy it. And maybe the squire didn't play, but his father or grandfather did so he let the local farmer copy the old violin lying around up at the Hall. This would be one explanation of a persistance of old designs of instrument, especially among players of traditional music, church band musicians etc. On the subject of pitch, Tim, at the beginning of the 20th century it was usual for pitch to be higher than we use now. It was generally low in the 18th century and rose during the 19th century. Historical pitch is a huge subject exhaustively researched and written up in what is now the standard book on the subject by oboist Bruce Haynes A history of performing pitch; the story of A. Before Haynes' work, understanding what was going on with pitch standards, transposition etc. especially in 16th century music was such a confusing can of worms for many musicians interested in the period that a biblical quote from Proverbs was often appropriate He that toucheth pitch shall be defiled therewith. BTW, with all due respect to those concerned, when doing a comment on this list please don't just click reply all, otherwise we can get multiple copies coming in. The dartmouth address is all that's needed in the To line for us all to get it. And disable the function on the email sending program which automatically requests a reply from the recipient. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Francis Wood wrote: Also is pitch purely dependent on tension? The danger with such a question is that one might receive a full and comprehensive answer, which in such cases is usually to be regretted! This is one case where I think the answer is simpler than one might expect. Quoting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_string f = (1/2L) * sqrt (T/mu) L is the length Double the length and you halve the frequency T is the tension. You need to raise the tension fourfold to double the frequency mu mass per unit length. Four times the mass (weight) and you half the frequency SimpleS. If you start talking harmonics and tones it then does get an awful lot more complicated. (Oh my poor head). If only pipes were so simple Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Thanks Barry. Returning to the core topic of piping, do similar principles apply in human behaviour terms? In NPS Committee meetings for instance, if you double the evident tension in the meetings does this result in a proportionate decrease the frequency of meetings? Similarly if you double the length of meetings does this have a similar effect on the frequency of those meetings? Francis On 10 Feb 2010, at 12:38, Barry Say wrote: Francis Wood wrote: Also is pitch purely dependent on tension? The danger with such a question is that one might receive a full and comprehensive answer, which in such cases is usually to be regretted! This is one case where I think the answer is simpler than one might expect. Quoting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_string f = (1/2L) * sqrt (T/mu) L is the length Double the length and you halve the frequency T is the tension. You need to raise the tension fourfold to double the frequency mu mass per unit length. Four times the mass (weight) and you half the frequency SimpleS. If you start talking harmonics and tones it then does get an awful lot more complicated. (Oh my poor head). If only pipes were so simple Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Barry said If only pipes were so simple The formula for strings: f = (1/2L) * sqrt (T/mu) neglects all sorts of effects, such as the bow or the finger, the rigidity of the string, the speed of tension waves in the string, etc. And we haven't thought of the motion of the fiddle's bridge and body yet. Similarly, the analogous formula for a one-open-ended pipe: f = (1/4L) * sqrt (gamma P/rho) neglects the effects of the reed at the 'closed' end or the hole at the other. Or the bore, or the 'dead' bore below the open hole, the vibration of the wood, etc... Acoustics is hard but the approximations are easy, and *fairly* good. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Say Sent: 10 February 2010 12:38 To: NSP group Cc: Francis Wood; tim rolls BT Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments Francis Wood wrote: Also is pitch purely dependent on tension? The danger with such a question is that one might receive a full and comprehensive answer, which in such cases is usually to be regretted! This is one case where I think the answer is simpler than one might expect. Quoting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_string f = (1/2L) * sqrt (T/mu) L is the length Double the length and you halve the frequency T is the tension. You need to raise the tension fourfold to double the frequency mu mass per unit length. Four times the mass (weight) and you half the frequency SimpleS. If you start talking harmonics and tones it then does get an awful lot more complicated. (Oh my poor head). If only pipes were so simple Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Or the pitch of the discussion could rise... -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Francis Wood Sent: 10 February 2010 13:01 To: Barry Say Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments Thanks Barry. Returning to the core topic of piping, do similar principles apply in human behaviour terms? In NPS Committee meetings for instance, if you double the evident tension in the meetings does this result in a proportionate decrease the frequency of meetings? Similarly if you double the length of meetings does this have a similar effect on the frequency of those meetings? Francis On 10 Feb 2010, at 12:38, Barry Say wrote: Francis Wood wrote: Also is pitch purely dependent on tension? The danger with such a question is that one might receive a full and comprehensive answer, which in such cases is usually to be regretted! This is one case where I think the answer is simpler than one might expect. Quoting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_string f = (1/2L) * sqrt (T/mu) L is the length Double the length and you halve the frequency T is the tension. You need to raise the tension fourfold to double the frequency mu mass per unit length. Four times the mass (weight) and you half the frequency SimpleS. If you start talking harmonics and tones it then does get an awful lot more complicated. (Oh my poor head). If only pipes were so simple Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Gibbons, John wrote: Barry said If only pipes were so simple The formula for strings: f = (1/2L) * sqrt (T/mu) neglects all sorts of effects, such as the bow or the finger, the rigidity of the string, the speed of tension waves in the string, etc. And we haven't thought of the motion of the fiddle's bridge and body yet. I believe that of all the approximations in acoustics this one works pretty well for strings under the conditions we find in musical instruments. However, it does assume that the string is uniform and stretched between two fixed points - nut and bridge. There again, that is the normal arrangement for tuning. Similarly, the analogous formula for a one-open-ended pipe: f = (1/4L) * sqrt (gamma P/rho) neglects the effects of the reed at the 'closed' end or the hole at the other. Or the bore, or the 'dead' bore below the open hole, the vibration of the wood, etc... This may be a good starting point but I believe that for NSP in particular it is very approximate. Wall effects which are generally negligible in other instruments become significant at the bore sizes we use. The effective reed length is a whole can of worms. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
From John Dally 9th Feb: There are not many fiddlers around here who are interested in playing with NSP, or SSP for that matter, but it would I like to find one who is willing to tune down the way Willie Taylor did in order play with Joe Hutton. Mmm... Willie Taylor hated tuning down to Joe. When the turnip chopper did for Willie's left forefinger he found it easier to play with the bridge moved up towards the fingerboard. In the latter years I set up two of Willie's fiddles and he found it most comfortable to have the bridge halfway between the f-hole nicks and their top edges. This took 15 mm off the standard length of approx 330mm between nut bridge. This of course did no favours for the tone but more importantly gave a string tension which in Willie's words was like knicker-elastic when tuned down to F. Salvation came when Mike Nelson made a concert G set for Joe in the late 80s. Speaking of Willie T, thanks to Francis for directing me to the Mike MacDougall material. The similarities between his story and Willie T's were so eerie it brought me close to tears. Everything from the distances travelled (less in Willie's case but then he walked) - anything up to 12 miles to a dance/session play till daybreak walk back and go straight out onto the hills to see to the sheep. Then grab an hour or so sleep at lunchtime and go back out in the afternoon. Like Mike he regarded it as important to get out there and play. Very early on in my Mount Hooley days he told me, if you've been given a talent it's your duty to share it. Well put methinks. Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Anthony is absolutely right about Willie Taylor's dislike of tuning down a fiddle; the 'knicker-elastic' comment is one he used frequently. When I'm playing duets with Andy's nsp, I always tune down. For me, I've spent a long time trying to find the right fiddle and strings so it doesn't sound like a kipper-box (or I hope it doesn't) when tuned lower. In my opinion, it's about trying to find a sound quality/timbre/call it what you will, that sounds right with the particular set of pipes you're playing with. That's the case with any two instruments playing together, of course. The only time I ever heard Joe play the fiddle was when he was about to leave my parents' house late one evening and had boxed up his pipes, only to hear the rest of us start on a tune that happened to be a favourite of his. He picked my fiddle off the top of the piano and played along till the end of the set, when Hannah decided it was definitely home time! Margaret To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
As Matt has said pipes/fiddle duets (and combinations of pipe/fiddle with other instruments) are ''not at all unusual '' and the various people mentioned especially the High Level Ranters as Colin R has pointed out pioneered in this. I have played duets (and in bands) with a fiddler (Peter French though unfortunately he's still based in Hong Kong and me in the Scottish Borders!) This type of duet (and playing in a small band), though hard work is for me one of the most satisfying ways to use the pipes. However it's surprisingly difficult to find interested fiddlers. The smallpipes we find most compatible are the D NSP and D SSP where chanters are easily interchangeable in performance and the latter are excellent for playing in G. Also the ability to pick up the Border pipes is great when the ''folk band'' shifts up into ceilidh band mode. As for John's mention of A SSP's these pipes are (unfortunately?) by far the most prevalent type of smallpipe adopted by Highland pipers, and can sound nice with a fiddle and there's a benefit to the fiddlers who can easily read Scottish pipe notation without transposing. Maybe its an advantage to play with a non-dot-reading fiddler who learns tunes primarily by ear, like Peter. Of course the type of pipes to employ when playing with other instrumentalists all depends on the context of performance. Bill (Currently recuperating having just had to play with band at 4 Burns Suppers unfortunately duties involving haggis-piping-in mode) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
On 8 Feb 2010, Bill Telfer wrote: This type of duet (and playing in a small band), though hard work is for me one of the most satisfying ways to use the pipes. Hear, hear. Both all pipes, and pipes / fiddle. I looked up in the society records, and the first mention of a pipes / fiddle duet class in the competitions is 1950. It was won in that year by Basil Clough George Hepple, the following two years by Joe Hutton and George Hepple. (I know that John George Hepple also played together) Prior to that there were only nsp duets in the comps, starting 1933, and won in that year by TW Pigg and J. Armstrong - it doesn't say which but I would assume John Armstrong of Carrick. One of the best impromptu duets I've ever heard was a performance of Cuckold come out the Amrey, on the 2nd floor stairs of Morpeth Town Hall, played by Matt S on Border pipes and Colin R on fiddle, in the interval of ...something or other. Music with attitude!! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
some people love Wagner's Operas and I don't, despite a classical musical education 'Because of', surely?? -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Richard York Sent: 07 February 2010 12:48 To: rosspi...@aol.com; NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments And there's also the great mix of Andy May's pipes Sophie Ball's fiddle on his Happy Hours CD. Smashing. (Official Disclaimer: the terms, Great mix and smashing here represent expressions of personally held opinions of musical taste, for which I alone am responsible, and with which others may find they wish to disagree. This is their right, just as some people love Wagner's Operas and I don't, despite a classical musical education. But I like this mix.) :-) Richard. rosspi...@aol.com wrote: The High Level Ranters were based on the mix of fiddle and pipes that I had discovered with Forster Charlton in the lat 1950's. Colin R -Original Message- From: John Dally dir...@gmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:45 Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments I've been listening to a lot of UP flat set and fiddle duets, and playing my SSP in A a bit with a fiddler. I'm smitten with the sound mix of low pipe and fiddle. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
And apparently agony Best wishes. Steve On 2/8/10 3:30 PM, gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 07/02/2010 13:39:07 GMT Standard Time, i...@gretton-willems.com writes: But did you know that a recent survey showed that 96.83% of people who say that they don't like Wagner's operas have never actually heard or attended one? ;-) Cheers, Paul Gretton Doing it this way saves an awful lot of time! John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
thanks, Matt! When playing with NSP in F do you tune your fiddle down or play in F and C? Have you heard Mick O'Brien and Caoimhin o Raghallaigh? I think Caoimhin must tune his fiddle down to be in tune with Mick's flat set. Perhaps what I like about these duets is the fiddle being tuned down. I just got Dr. Angus MacDonald's new CD, where he plays Highland pipe duets with a fiddle, but it doesn't sound very much like a fiddle it's so shrill to my ears. Of course, YMMV. Thanks! On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com wrote: Only time I played with a D set was with Dick Hensold - everything was in the 'wrong' key on the fiddle - more so when playing fiddle with an F set, which I also do occasionally. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
On 7 Feb 2010, at 13:38, Paul Gretton wrote: Paul Gretton (who just this morning booked his tickets for the Cologne Opera's Ring next June. Paul, could you report back on whether Siegfried ever does get his reed problem fixed? Auf dem dummen Rohre gerät mir nichts. - . . . . . On that silly reed I could do nothing. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:03 PM, John Dally dir...@gmail.com wrote: I've 'always' - since taking up guitar at age 13 - played with other instrumentalists. Sorry if I gave the impression that I thought playing in duets with other instruments is unusual. I am very fortunate to play with a wonderful guitarist almost any night of the week (www.kateggleston.com). NSP in F are, I suppose, flat sets in the way the uilleann pipes in C are flat sets. There are not many fiddlers around here who are interested in playing with NSP, or SSP for that matter, but it would I like to find one who is willing to tune down the way Willie Taylor did in order play with Joe Hutton. thanks To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
And there's also the great mix of Andy May's pipes Sophie Ball's fiddle on his Happy Hours CD. Smashing. (Official Disclaimer: the terms, Great mix and smashing here represent expressions of personally held opinions of musical taste, for which I alone am responsible, and with which others may find they wish to disagree. This is their right, just as some people love Wagner's Operas and I don't, despite a classical musical education. But I like this mix.) :-) Richard. rosspi...@aol.com wrote: The High Level Ranters were based on the mix of fiddle and pipes that I had discovered with Forster Charlton in the lat 1950's. Colin R -Original Message- From: John Dally dir...@gmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:45 Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments I've been listening to a lot of UP flat set and fiddle duets, and playing my SSP in A a bit with a fiddler. I'm smitten with the sound mix of low pipe and fiddle. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
(Official Disclaimer: the terms, Great mix and smashing here represent expressions of personally held opinions of musical taste, for which I alone am responsible, and with which others may find they wish to disagree. This is their right, just as some people love Wagner's Operas and I don't, despite a classical musical education. But I like this mix.) :-) Richard. Nice one, Richard. But did you know that a recent survey showed that 96.83% of people who say that they don't like Wagner's operas have never actually heard or attended one? ;-) Cheers, Paul Gretton (who just this morning booked his tickets for the Cologne Opera's Ring next June. Four trips of several hours driving in a single week to get there, but life-enhancing.) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments now OT
Haven't tried cyanide, but did do Wagner with passionate Wagner-phile 'A' level Music teacher many years ago. Sorry, Paul, it was as a result of that I got to dislike them... but hope you enjoy The Ring Cycle! Best wishes and apologies to all for another OT excursion! Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 7 Feb 2010, at 13:38, Paul Gretton wrote: Nice one, Richard. But did you know that a recent survey showed that 96.83% of people who say that they don't like Wagner's operas have never actually heard or attended one? ;-) Actually I don't like cyanide. Never tried it though, I must admit! Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Facebook group
SighSorry about this.. I think this URL actually works. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=291889707722ref=searchsid=695896937.2624794321..1 Bill - Original Message - From: Bill Carr james...@online.no To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [NSP] NSP Facebook group ... And let Bill Carr learn how to cut and paste URL's. Having trouble getting the correct link. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=291889707722 Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Facebook group
Yes, Bill, that URL does work. And allow me to say that you may win some sort of award for Most peculiar profile photo! Alec In a message dated 2/7/2010 8:32:02 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, james...@online.no writes: SighSorry about this.. I think this URL actually works. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=291889707722ref=searchsid=69 5896937.2624794321..1 Bill - Original Message - From: Bill Carr james...@online.no To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [NSP] NSP Facebook group ... And let Bill Carr learn how to cut and paste URL's. Having trouble getting the correct link. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=291889707722 Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: NSP Facebook group
Well it's an old photo. I don't use the Up and Go's anymore... you should see me in a kilt though :-) Bill - Original Message - From: cal...@aol.com Yes, Bill, that URL does work. And allow me to say that you may win some sort of award for Most peculiar profile photo! Alec To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
I play my D NSP set with a fiddler quite a bit, as well as with a mandolin player, and as long as you have the key sig discussion before you start, everything will go fine. Depending on the fiddler and the liveliness of the room you are playing in, there can be some volume issues sometimes, but most fiddlers can turn it down when necessary. At last, a piping topic, Peter Dyson Bellingham (the other one), WA To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Hi John, Steve and all, Would you say that this conforms to the limits of the list? Hopefully, Sheila -Original Message- From: bri...@aol.com To: dir...@gmail.com Sent: Sat, Feb 6, 2010 6:51 pm Subject: Re: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments Hi John, Yes, as Matt commented, it is done frequently, and in my humble opinion, almost sounds better than duets played by two pipes. Listen also to CDs by Anthony Robb and others who use pipes ( F or G chanter) also with viola or fidola (which I think - and no doubt will be immediately slapped on the fingers if wrong - is a fiddle tuned like a viola, i.e. a fifth lower). I also often use a clarinet, which has similar range to the viola and, in my part of the world, is much easier to find than a viola (especially very much easier to find than a viola who enjoys playing what purely classically trained musicians would tend to refer to as folk stuff). Not only do you get the combination of different pitches, but also the exciting variety of the tone colours of the different instruments. I have composed a lot of cross-over chamber music - a mixture of traditional NSP with more or less classical, for Northumbrian F or G pipes with violin, cello, and viola or clarinet. The viola has the advantage of being able to play pizzicato as well as bowed, which adds another dimension, but the clarinet has the advantage of its lovely different timbre and combines beautifully with the pipes.The same can be said in favour of flutes, whistles, oboes, bass etc. and most of these other instruments have a wider range than the basic 7-keyed chanter, and can play in numerous different keys. Thus you can get wonderful variety of sound by having, for example, pipes alone, or with any or all of the other instruments, interspersed with passages when the pipes just drone quietly in the background while one or several of the other instruments do their stuff, and/or even move to another key for a short passage. To my way of thinking, the only time the combination of any other instruments with the pipes is not very satisfactory is when they play in unison, because the other instruments are frequently more used to playing in equal temperament (like the piano), while the pipes use what is often referred to as just tuning. If you have really sensitive string/wind players they will adjust to the pipes, or automatically use just tuning but, listening to many recordings of unison playing, you notice that it does not always happen, and the result is a bit of a mess. (Not good for the ears of the listener!). The only other thing to bear in mind, and which used sensitively can be a terrific asset, is that the other instruments can vary their dynamics, and can easily overpower the small pipes. The lower pitched D chanter is very easily drowned, whilst the brighter G can cut through more easily, but can still be out-shouted by a loud violin especially if the latter is playing notes at a higher pitch. Arrangements have to be carefully made, and if necessary don't be shy about reminding the other instruments when they should be letting the pipes be heard!. Have fun experimenting. Sheila -Original Message- From: John Dally dir...@gmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, Feb 6, 2010 2:45 pm Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments I've been listening to a lot of UP flat set and fiddle duets, and laying my SSP in A a bit with a fiddler. I'm smitten with the sound ix of low pipe and fiddle. I think fiddle and NSP would go well ogether, but perhaps the NSP in D would produce a better match up ith a fiddle than F or F# and the G chanter which can be, to my ear nyway, shrill. Has anyone experimented with this sort of thing at ll? thanks, ohn PS Is there a monument at the Morpeth Chantry to those who have fallen n the bagpipe wars? To get on or off this list see list information at ttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: NSP Bellows
Clack-valves often dry out and take on a curve which no longer makes a seal with their housing. The quickest way to check is to extend the bellows, block the outlet tube with the left thumb, use the ball of the right thumb to seal the outer clack valve housing and press the bellows cheeks together. If airtight it's just the clack-valve at fault and that's easily remedied. If there's still a leak you've got bigger problems! Hopes this makes sense. Cheers Anthony --- On Wed, 3/2/10, colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk wrote: From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Bellows To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 3 February, 2010, 0:13 What problems are you having? Although you probably know more about it than me, I do remember being rather embarrassed when I had problems with my bellows after I did a little maintenance on them. I thought they were leaking and it turned out the valve was upside-down so not closing. As you suggest they are problematic only after having them fettled, maybe someone here could suggest a fix? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: [1]pipe...@tiscali.co.uk To: [2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:50 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP Bellows Hi All, Not a discussion point more a cry for help!!! Having just had my pipes fettled after a few years of abuse I now find I have some problems with the bellows. Does anyone have a set of fairly standard bellows that they no longer use and would be willing to sell them? If not in the best of condition,providing they could be reasonably fettled , then I would be grateful for help. If anyone can help could you please contact me directly at [3]pipe...@tiscali.co.uk Living in hope Guy Tindale To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pipe...@tiscali.co.uk 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pipe...@tiscali.co.uk 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Bellows
What problems are you having? Although you probably know more about it than me, I do remember being rather embarrassed when I had problems with my bellows after I did a little maintenance on them. I thought they were leaking and it turned out the valve was upside-down so not closing. As you suggest they are problematic only after having them fettled, maybe someone here could suggest a fix? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: pipe...@tiscali.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:50 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP Bellows Hi All, Not a discussion point more a cry for help!!! Having just had my pipes fettled after a few years of abuse I now find I have some problems with the bellows. Does anyone have a set of fairly standard bellows that they no longer use and would be willing to sell them? If not in the best of condition,providing they could be reasonably fettled , then I would be grateful for help. If anyone can help could you please contact me directly at pipe...@tiscali.co.uk Living in hope Guy Tindale To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
I found that the liquid paraffin was the best despite what some folk have said who probably did not clean off any old oil that had been used previously. LP does not go sticky. Test oils by putting a drop of oil on a brass strip and leaving out for some time to see what happens over time to the oils and to the metal. Old Bill Hedworth used to try any oil to hand on his pipes and it was interesting to see the effect some had on the leather in particular which in some cases became like blotting paper and could be torn easily. Key pads would stick and verdigris was rife over most of the metal keys and ferrules. By all means try linseed oil and all the vegetable oils to see what happens over time. Animal oils should not be ignored such as neatsfoot oil or whale oil if you can get it which used to be used on bellows. I would suggest that the post of Technical Advisor should be withdrawn at the AGM this Saturday as a rotating post would lead to further confusion and as nobody takes any notice of what is said as in my own case with over forty seven years experience what is the point. Colin R -Original Message- From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: julia@nspipes.co.uk; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Sent: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:50 Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads Interesting comments. As I said, I've used a few oils (usually flavour of the month on this list) over the past 38 years (since I got my set of pipes) and almond oil was always my favourite followed by pure lavender oil (both medicinal quality) although the latter resulted in some odd looks when I opened the case. I had no problems with either but used the almond oil for at least 25 years without any problems at all. As the years passed and ill-health made playing more difficult and therefore not as regular, I started having the problem of the (leather) pads sticking to the chanter when pressing the keys . The keys lifted, the pads stayed stuck to the chanter. I needed an alternative to almond oil. Using the liquid paraffin, I found that, even after a few months in the box untouched, the pads no longer stick and the pipes still glisten nicely. My pipes are lignum which may make a difference. Neatsfoot oil seemed to form a crust around the edges of the keys quite quickly (as it does around the neck of an opened bottle of the same when it dries out). I suppose that nothing will give perfect results if regular maintenance of the set isn't carried out. Maybe the answer lies in how often the set is played/maintained as suggested by others rather than a simple which oil is best. Colin Hill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
I can't see LP getting too sticky - I have never noticed that happen. There isn't much chemistry can take place, short of lighting it, and the volatile components should have been distilled off at the refinery. If heavier fractions did build up, the most obvious solvent for shifting it would be a fresh dose of LP. One for John Liestman perhaps? John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Hilary Paton Sent: 12 January 2010 23:56 To: Dartmouth NPS; Tom Childs Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads Hi ... Liquid parafin becomes sticky and I have had problems with sticking keys, which an excellent piper reported he also had a similar problem. Hilary To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
On 13 Jan 2010, Gibbons, John wrote: I can't see LP getting too sticky - I have never noticed that happen. There isn't much chemistry can take place I think we are neglecting, or perhaps underestimating would be a better term, the effect of individual players' finger surface chemistry. I suspect that different oils may suit different players/pad combinations. We know that some players (me included) tarnish brass simply by handling it - this is to do with skin acidity levels. Possibly the same sort of interaction causes the oils used to behave differently. I have seen the after effects of olive oil polymerising, particularly on little- used pipes where spectacular snotomers develop, and observed the build up of verdigris from various oils, neatsfoot included, on others' sets of pipes. This effect is most pronounced when pipes are left shut in their boxes and little used. As a result of these observations I would use neither, though I do have neatsfoot about, and I'm not manic about it. Personally I have had no such problems with liquid paraffin, but I accept that others have. I don't understand how, since as John says, it is not reactive. However it is a solvent, as those who tried to use it (again including me) with some of the self-adhesive foam pad materials discovered pretty quickly. Once it has dissolved partcular individuals' finger chemicals (for want of a better term) maybe they enable other reactions rather than LP reacting itself. I have reverted to leather pads glued on with shellac, use mainly liq: paraffin, (I am an enthusiastic oiler, on the scale of things) except for bag dressing where neatsfoot is still used. I keep self-adhesive foam pads in my travelling toolkit for emergencies - they are excellent short-term solutions. I'm not using foam pads of any sort as routine since I like to oil, and I can never remember which chanters have got which pads when it comes to it. If an oil / pad combination doesn't work for you, change it, and experiment till you find one that does. If it does work for you, great, but I don't think there is (nor should we expect) a universal substance which will suit everyone in this area. And acetone is readily available in uni. chemistry departments, it should be possible to persuade a friend to part with a small amount provided they understand what you want it for. Just a word of warning though - I worked in such a department, and used acetone regularly, for 10 years (dissolving polymers, funnily enough!). Though I had no problems at the time I now find I have to be extremely wary of it - it sets off an asthma-like reaction and makes it difficult to breathe. Be careful! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
I was advised to use linseed oil on a flute, is this a big no-no for pipes? 2010/1/13 John Liestman [1]j...@liestman.com Well, since you asked, I personally use neatsfoot but liquid parafin (UK-speak for what US folks call mineral oil) is fine too. In my case, I only use it for the wood, since I use non-self-adhesive foam pads on my chanter keys (no oil on those). But I really like Anthony's notion that if you play frequently, you do not have a problem with stuck keys! Gibbons, John wrote: I can't see LP getting too sticky - I have never noticed that happen. There isn't much chemistry can take place, short of lighting it, and the volatile components should have been distilled off at the refinery. If heavier fractions did build up, the most obvious solvent for shifting it would be a fresh dose of LP. One for John Liestman perhaps? John -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Hilary Paton Sent: 12 January 2010 23:56 To: Dartmouth NPS; Tom Childs Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads Hi ... Liquid parafin becomes sticky and I have had problems with sticking keys, which an excellent piper reported he also had a similar problem. Hilary To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- John Liestman -- References 1. mailto:j...@liestman.com 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Now about all this oil stuff . . . Olive oil, neatsfoot oil, almond oil. All these vegetable or animal sourced substances are pretty variable depending on how and where they have been grown and how they have been processed. They will for example have varying levels of acidity and capability of being oxidised or in the case of neatsfoot oil, oxodised. They may also behave differently according to what has previously been used on the instrument. That's why I prefer to use liquid paraffin which does the job and allows me to forget about it. The oiling question pops up regularly if not frequently and usually at a time when little else is going on. An interesting subject but not nearly as interesting as actually playing. A Compleat history of Oyling (or indeed any other regular topic) may be found by doing a search on the list archive, a useful and not well-known resource: http://www.mail-archive.com/nsp%40cs.dartmouth.edu/ Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
On 13 Jan 2010, at 11:01, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before, You haven't played the nose-flute, then? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
This topic has produced many exchanges so slightly hesitant to contribute, however here goes. Julia sums up my position with LP and I have been using it for some years. Before that I used Almond oil and before that Neatsfoot both of which worked well for me . I play my instrument regularly and that seems to help it all work better and oil the pads fairly regularly but use V little oil and a fine water colour brush. I do oil the bore and oil wood etc. Certainly never to the point that anything drips. For the pads I have leather and they stay supple and maintain their airtightness. Linseed and peanut oil are used in wet bore instruments and I understand are not suitable. -Original Message- From: amble skuse amble.sk...@googlemail.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:46:19 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads I was advised to use linseed oil on a flute, is this a big no-no for pipes? 2010/1/13 John Liestman [1]j...@liestman.com Well, since you asked, I personally use neatsfoot but liquid parafin (UK-speak for what US folks call mineral oil) is fine too. In my case, I only use it for the wood, since I use non-self-adhesive foam pads on my chanter keys (no oil on those). But I really like Anthony's notion that if you play frequently, you do not have a problem with stuck keys! Gibbons, John wrote: I can't see LP getting too sticky - I have never noticed that happen. There isn't much chemistry can take place, short of lighting it, and the volatile components should have been distilled off at the refinery. If heavier fractions did build up, the most obvious solvent for shifting it would be a fresh dose of LP. One for John Liestman perhaps? John -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Hilary Paton Sent: 12 January 2010 23:56 To: Dartmouth NPS; Tom Childs Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads Hi ... Liquid parafin becomes sticky and I have had problems with sticking keys, which an excellent piper reported he also had a similar problem. Hilary To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- John Liestman -- References 1. mailto:j...@liestman.com 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Linseed oil is famous for polymerising - hence its use in paint historically. It would clag up a wooden flute something horrible. I doubt if it would stick too badly to metal though. Quantz suggested almond oil. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of amble skuse Sent: 13 January 2010 10:46 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads I was advised to use linseed oil on a flute, is this a big no-no for pipes? 2010/1/13 John Liestman [1]j...@liestman.com Well, since you asked, I personally use neatsfoot but liquid parafin (UK-speak for what US folks call mineral oil) is fine too. In my case, I only use it for the wood, since I use non-self-adhesive foam pads on my chanter keys (no oil on those). But I really like Anthony's notion that if you play frequently, you do not have a problem with stuck keys! Gibbons, John wrote: I can't see LP getting too sticky - I have never noticed that happen. There isn't much chemistry can take place, short of lighting it, and the volatile components should have been distilled off at the refinery. If heavier fractions did build up, the most obvious solvent for shifting it would be a fresh dose of LP. One for John Liestman perhaps? John -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Hilary Paton Sent: 12 January 2010 23:56 To: Dartmouth NPS; Tom Childs Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads Hi ... Liquid parafin becomes sticky and I have had problems with sticking keys, which an excellent piper reported he also had a similar problem. Hilary To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- John Liestman -- References 1. mailto:j...@liestman.com 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
On 13 Jan 2010, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before, neither has Google, it appears... I can sort of guess... Please explain, with footnotes where appropriate :) I worked for 10 years in a polymer research unit in the 90s, and the word was current then. Polymers are (and this is the very simple version, folks) long chains of carbon molecules with various different bits hanging off the sides. So methane (which has one carbon atom and four hydrogen) is a gas. Propane and butane, which are straight chains of 3 and 4 carbons respectively are also gases, but heavier. As the carbon chain gets longer the substance turns first liquid (think octane - 8 carbons), and then - eventually - solid (think paraffin wax). So at some stage the length is such that a semi-solid substance results - snotomers. I think you can guess why the name was applied. Think also the stuff you have to clean off a chip pan when the oil is getting tired. Or that has to gouged out of key slots on pipes. It is of course more complicated than that - the bits hanging off the carbon chains are sometimes able to link with their neighbouring chains - if they didn't we wouldn't have plastic washing up bowls - and the exact consistency of any particular plastic is determined by these sort of linkages, and the exact process by which they are produced. In essence the number of chains there areholding hands, the exact elements doing the linkages, and the length of the central chain determines the solidity or otherwise of the material. Does that help? Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
I'd guess it's been around since Tudor times, there is the urban myth that Henry VIII wrote Greensleeves.. Tim - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Cc: julia@nspipes.co.uk; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads On 13 Jan 2010, at 11:01, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before, You haven't played the nose-flute, then? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
- it's the smell of the stuff, isn't it? Snotomer is an anagram of Rot m' nose, a Georgian oath.Jim tim rolls BT wrote: I'd guess it's been around since Tudor times, there is the urban myth that Henry VIII wrote Greensleeves.. Tim - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Cc: julia@nspipes.co.uk; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads On 13 Jan 2010, at 11:01, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before, You haven't played the nose-flute, then? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/12/10 07:35:00
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
OK Tom Childs, happy you asked? Best wishes. Steve On 1/13/10 7:07 AM, Jim Grant j...@millgreens.f2s.com wrote: - it's the smell of the stuff, isn't it? Snotomer is an anagram of Rot m' nose, a Georgian oath.Jim tim rolls BT wrote: I'd guess it's been around since Tudor times, there is the urban myth that Henry VIII wrote Greensleeves.. Tim - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Cc: julia@nspipes.co.uk; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads On 13 Jan 2010, at 11:01, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before, You haven't played the nose-flute, then? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Yes - thanks! R Julia Say wrote: On 13 Jan 2010, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before, neither has Google, it appears... I can sort of guess... Please explain, with footnotes where appropriate :) I worked for 10 years in a polymer research unit in the 90s, and the word was current then. Polymers are (and this is the very simple version, folks) long chains of carbon molecules with various different bits hanging off the sides. So methane (which has one carbon atom and four hydrogen) is a gas. Propane and butane, which are straight chains of 3 and 4 carbons respectively are also gases , but heavier. As the carbon chain gets longer the substance turns first liquid (think octane - 8 carbons), and then - eventually - solid (think paraffin wax). So at some stage the length is such that a semi-solid substance results - snotomers. I think you can guess why the name was applied. Think also the stuff you have to clean off a chip pan when the oil is getting tired. Or that has to gouge d out of key slots on pipes. It is of course more complicated than that - the bits hanging off the carbon chains are sometimes able to link with their neighbouring chains - if they didn 't we wouldn't have plastic washing up bowls - and the exact consistency of any particular plastic is determined by these sort of linkages, and the exact proce ss by which they are produced. In essence the number of chains there areholding hands, the exact elements doi ng the linkages, and the length of the central chain determines the solidity or otherwise of the material. Does that help? Julia -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Interesting comments. As I said, I've used a few oils (usually flavour of the month on this list) over the past 38 years (since I got my set of pipes) and almond oil was always my favourite followed by pure lavender oil (both medicinal quality) although the latter resulted in some odd looks when I opened the case. I had no problems with either but used the almond oil for at least 25 years without any problems at all. As the years passed and ill-health made playing more difficult and therefore not as regular, I started having the problem of the (leather) pads sticking to the chanter when pressing the keys . The keys lifted, the pads stayed stuck to the chanter. I needed an alternative to almond oil. Using the liquid paraffin, I found that, even after a few months in the box untouched, the pads no longer stick and the pipes still glisten nicely. My pipes are lignum which may make a difference. Neatsfoot oil seemed to form a crust around the edges of the keys quite quickly (as it does around the neck of an opened bottle of the same when it dries out). I suppose that nothing will give perfect results if regular maintenance of the set isn't carried out. Maybe the answer lies in how often the set is played/maintained as suggested by others rather than a simple which oil is best. Colin Hill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
I can attest to extremes of skin chemistry. At a gig once where I was playing electric guitar another band asked to borrow our gear for a song or two. I lent their guitarist my newly-strung instrument, and when he returned it a few minutes later the strings were rusty and dead. After that I made sure I asked 'do you have sweaty hands?' before granting similar requests. For pipers, the secret is to play pipe music, thus eliminating any need for metal keys :-) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Hi Tom, I'll let others advise on the oil, but the bottles are gained by boldly walking into a nail and beauty salon and asking for either an unused one or an empty, then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Best wishes, Richard. Tom Childs wrote: Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
On 12 Jan 2010, at 19:04, Richard York wrote: then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Hello Richard, That's what I did, though I think you meant acetone. It's pretty awful stuff and needs to be treated with care. One source of small quantities is nail varnish remover. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Errmmm, no actually I got lots of sheets from an overhead projector and wiped it until or there again I'm just getting old and forgetful and meant acetone all the time. Whooops. Thanks, Francis. Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 12 Jan 2010, at 19:04, Richard York wrote: then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Hello Richard, That's what I did, though I think you meant acetone. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Many chemists sell acetone by the bottle - at least they did a few years ago whilst I was modelling puppets from plastic wood :-) The nail varnish remover is quite a weak strength of it. The alternative is to get the remover, clean the brush with it and just empty the last dregs from the bottle by setting it upside down on a tissue (move often) and leave any residue in it and let it dry and harden. It won't mix with the oil and (if you used a coloured varnish) should any bits manage to come loose, you can see them (so change the oil). I'm now a convert to the liquid paraffin for oiling the pipes and pads (I've tried many other oils including lavender, almond, castor etc and nothing seems as good as the paraffin - no sticking pads etc or pads getting pulled off because they have stuck and no smell). I've used it for several years now . It also keeps the maintenance regular (sorry, couldn't help myself). For those not from the UK, liquid paraffin was used as a laxative and can still be purchased from a pharmacy - I got mine from Tesco but Lloyds pharmacy sells it as well). It has nothing to do with what you put in an oil lamp or stove etc. Here's the stuff. http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=1008storeId=90productId=325219langId=-1 I'm sure we'll get a plethora of other suggestions ;) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:58 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads Errmmm, no actually I got lots of sheets from an overhead projector and wiped it until or there again I'm just getting old and forgetful and meant acetone all the time. Whooops. Thanks, Francis. Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 12 Jan 2010, at 19:04, Richard York wrote: then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Hello Richard, That's what I did, though I think you meant acetone. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Sorry forgot to mention, pipe cleaners are very handy if you don't want to use the nail varnish brush method. They reach everywhere including the bore (via the holes) and into those hard to get places near the keys. It's pretty easy to get a tiny bottle for the oil. To avoid getting too much oil on the pads, try popping a little oil onto a slip of kitchen towel (the paper ones, of course) and just inserting it under the open pad, close the pad, open up again and remove the towel. Just the right amount. If you get too much oil in the bore it soaks into the cotton wool bung so remember to change it. Sodden bungs mess up the tuning (he says knowingly after ages of despair before some kind soul on this list put me right about wet bungs). Colin Hill Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Tom Childs tomspip...@hotmail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP oil for pipes and key pads Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Not advice just an historical point. When I was learning the pipes (two pipes teachers down the line from Tom Clough) I was told that Tom said the oil (olive - the sort for dissolving wax in lugs NOT premier virgin) should be dripping off the end of your chanter! I still use olive oil and if you play everyday it doesn't get the chance to stick the pads down. The other point is that I associate that gentle beautiful smell with my early, heavenly (gone eathwards ever since) experiences of piping! Each to his own I guess. As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 12/1/10, colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk wrote: From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 12 January, 2010, 21:34 Sorry forgot to mention, pipe cleaners are very handy if you don't want to use the nail varnish brush method. They reach everywhere including the bore (via the holes) and into those hard to get places near the keys. It's pretty easy to get a tiny bottle for the oil. To avoid getting too much oil on the pads, try popping a little oil onto a slip of kitchen towel (the paper ones, of course) and just inserting it under the open pad, close the pad, open up again and remove the towel. Just the right amount. If you get too much oil in the bore it soaks into the cotton wool bung so remember to change it. Sodden bungs mess up the tuning (he says knowingly after ages of despair before some kind soul on this list put me right about wet bungs). Colin Hill Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Tom Childs [1]tomspip...@hotmail.com To: Dartmouth NPS [2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP oil for pipes and key pads Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=tomspip...@hotmail.com 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
No, its what frightens the dogs on Bunfire Nicht. Wasn't Sodden Bungs one of those British rock/blues bands from the 60s? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Hi I managed to buy little bottles with brushes and a wider neck (easier to pour oil in) on ebay-they're used for aromatherapy. Just to add to what has already been said on oils, I have gone through the various suggestions over the years and have come back to neatsfoot oil. Olive was OK. Liquid parafin becomes sticky and I have had problems with sticking keys, which an excellent piper reported he also had a similar problem. Like Anthony, the aroma of neatsfoot whilst playing has a similar effect on me as olive oil does to him!! Hilary - Original Message - From: Tom Childs tomspip...@hotmail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP oil for pipes and key pads Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
I'm partial to almond oil. Very light and easy to apply and wipe off the excess. Never gets rancid or makes clots. Alec MacLean In a message dated 1/12/2010 9:56:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, tomspip...@hotmail.com writes: Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: NSP
Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: j...@millgreens.f2s.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a similar time and place to the steam locomotive. But they were called 'Northumberland pipes' then, as were their simpler 'unimproved' pre-Peacock version. 'Northumbrian' is now used, confusingly, to refer to any of -the Anglo-Saxon kingdom -the modern county -the modern NE region, from the Tees to the border, never ever specifying which is meant. It is apparently a gross error to do so, though I never understood why John -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Hi All, Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: j...@millgreens.f2s.com; gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: j...@millgreens.f2s.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a similar time and place to the steam locomotive. But they were called 'Northumberland pipes' then, as were their simpler 'unimproved' pre-Peacock version. 'Northumbrian' is now used, confusingly, to refer to any of -the Anglo-Saxon kingdom -the modern county -the modern NE region, from the Tees to the border, never ever specifying which is meant. It is apparently a gross error to do so, though I never understood why John -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
On 6 Jan 2010, at 12:09, tim rolls BT wrote: Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Well, the Appelation pipes, then? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Wrong mountains Francis How about Cheviot pipes Neil - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com Cc: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:32 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP On 6 Jan 2010, at 12:09, tim rolls BT wrote: Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Well, the Appelation pipes, then? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
I guess we may have to consider allowing Durham, CHAPELRY OF WHITWORTH. The Chapelry of Whitworth is bounded by the Wear, dividing it from Brancepath on the North; by Tudhoe, in the Parish of Brancepath, on the East; by Merrington on the South-east and South; and by St. Andrew's Auckland on the South-west and West. John Robinson, of Coundon, found drowned the 23d day of August 1637. He was a piper. From: 'Chapelry of Whitworth', The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham: volume 3: Stockton and Darlington wards (1823), pp. 291-302. URL: [1]http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=76361amp;strque ry=northumberland piper Date accessed: 06 January 2010. Tim - Original Message - From: [2]Anthony Robb To: [3]...@millgreens.f2s.com ; [4]gibbonssoi...@aol.com ; [5]tim rolls BT Cc: [6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP Hello Tim Guess you're thinking about developments such as concert G chanters and high C keys. It would be accurate but silly as we both know. Clearly the pipes have growing international interest but newcomers Googling Northumberland (pipes) would get a very half-baked picture of the instrument and its history. Even if Northumberland had gained widespread acceptance during the appropriate period a good case could now be made for Northumbrian. Surely we should stick with the accepted and now geographically accurate Northumbrian. It is, after all, what most of us call them. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 6/1/10, tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com wrote: From: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: j...@millgreens.f2s.com, gibbonssoi...@aol.com, Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 12:09 Hi All, Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb [7]anth...@robbpipes.com To: [8]...@millgreens.f2s.com; [9]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: [10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, [11]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [12]gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: [13]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [14]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [15]...@millgreens.f2s.com Cc: [16]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a similar time and place to the steam locomotive. But they were called 'Northumberland pipes' then, as were their simpler 'unimproved' pre-Peacock version. 'Northumbrian' is now used, confusingly, to refer to any of -the Anglo-Saxon kingdom -the modern county -the modern NE region, from the Tees to the border, never ever specifying which is meant. It is apparently a gross error to do so, though I never understood why John -- To get on or off this list see list
[NSP] Re: NSP
Thanks for that Tim most interesting! It was the Jamie Allan connection I had in mind - he must have been playing thieving in this neck of the woods to end up in Durham jail! Cheers Anthony --- On Wed, 6/1/10, tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com wrote: From: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com, j...@millgreens.f2s.com, gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 16:31 I guess we may have to consider allowing Durham, CHAPELRY OF WHITWORTH. The Chapelry of Whitworth is bounded by the Wear, dividing it from Brancepath on the North; by Tudhoe, in the Parish of Brancepath, on the East; by Merrington on the South-east and South; and by St. Andrew's Auckland on the South-west and West. John Robinson, of Coundon, found drowned the 23d day of August 1637. He was a piper. From: 'Chapelry of Whitworth', The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham: volume 3: Stockton and Darlington wards (1823), pp. 291-302. URL: [1][1]http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=76361strq ue ry=northumberland piper Date accessed: 06 January 2010. Tim - Original Message - From: [2]Anthony Robb To: [3][2]...@millgreens.f2s.com ; [4][3]gibbonssoi...@aol.com ; [5]tim rolls BT Cc: [6][4]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP Hello Tim Guess you're thinking about developments such as concert G chanters and high C keys. It would be accurate but silly as we both know. Clearly the pipes have growing international interest but newcomers Googling Northumberland (pipes) would get a very half-baked picture of the instrument and its history. Even if Northumberland had gained widespread acceptance during the appropriate period a good case could now be made for Northumbrian. Surely we should stick with the accepted and now geographically accurate Northumbrian. It is, after all, what most of us call them. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 6/1/10, tim rolls BT [5]tim.ro...@btconnect.com wrote: From: tim rolls BT [6]tim.ro...@btconnect.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [7]...@millgreens.f2s.com, [8]gibbonssoi...@aol.com, Anthony Robb [9]anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: [10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 12:09 Hi All, Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb [7][11]anth...@robbpipes.com To: [8][12]...@millgreens.f2s.com; [9][13]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: [10][14]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, [11][15]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [12][16]gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: [13][17]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [14][18]gibbonssoi...@aol.com
[NSP] Re: NSP
Palatinate Pipes? tim rolls BT wrote: I guess we may have to consider allowing Durham, CHAPELRY OF WHITWORTH. The Chapelry of Whitworth is bounded by the Wear, dividing it from Brancepath on the North; by Tudhoe, in the Parish of Brancepath, on the East; by Merrington on the South-east and South; and by St. Andrew's Auckland on the South-west and West. John Robinson, of Coundon, found drowned the 23d day of August 1637. He was a piper. From: 'Chapelry of Whitworth', The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham: volume 3: Stockton and Darlington wards (1823), pp. 291-302. URL: [1][1]http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=76361amp;strque ry=northumberland piper Date accessed: 06 January 2010. Tim - Original Message - From: [2]Anthony Robb To: [[2]3]...@millgreens.f2s.com ; [[3]4]gibbonssoi...@aol.com ; [5]tim rolls BT Cc: [[4]6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP Hello Tim Guess you're thinking about developments such as concert G chanters and high C keys. It would be accurate but silly as we both know. Clearly the pipes have growing international interest but newcomers Googling Northumberland (pipes) would get a very half-baked picture of the instrument and its history. Even if Northumberland had gained widespread acceptance during the appropriate period a good case could now be made for Northumbrian. Surely we should stick with the accepted and now geographically accurate Northumbrian. It is, after all, what most of us call them. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 6/1/10, tim rolls BT [5]tim.ro...@btconnect.com wrote: From: tim rolls BT [6]tim.ro...@btconnect.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [7]...@millgreens.f2s.com, [8]gibbonssoi...@aol.com, Anthony Robb [9]anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: [10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 12:09 Hi All, Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb [11][7]anth...@robbpipes.com To: [12][8]...@millgreens.f2s.com; [13][9]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: [14][10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, [[15]11]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [16][12]gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: [[17]13]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [18][14]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [[19]15]...@millgreens.f2s.com Cc: [[20]16]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a similar time and place to the steam locomotive. But they were called 'Northumberland pipes' then, as were their simpler 'unimproved' pre-Peacock version. 'Northumbrian' is now used, confusingly, to refer to any of -the Anglo-Saxon kingdom -the modern county -the modern NE region, from the Tees to the border, never ever specifying which is meant. It is apparently a gross error to do so
[NSP] Re: NSP
Yes, we need Palatinum pipes made in the exclave of Bedlingtonshire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedlingtonshire Those seeking enlightrnment could investigate: Counties (Detached Parts) Act 1839 Barry On 6 Jan 2010 at 18:06, Richard York wrote: Palatinate Pipes? tim rolls BT wrote: I guess we may have to consider allowing Durham, CHAPELRY OF WHITWORTH. The Chapelry of Whitworth is bounded by the Wear, dividing it from Brancepath on the North; by Tudhoe, in the Parish of Brancepath, on the East; by Merrington on the South-east and South; and by St. Andrew's Auckland on the South-west and West. John Robinson, of Coundon, found drowned the 23d day of August 1637. He was a piper. From: 'Chapelry of Whitworth', The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham: volume 3: Stockton and Darlington wards (1823), pp. 291-302. URL: [1][1]http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=76361amp;strque ry=northumberland piper Date accessed: 06 January 2010. Tim - Original Message - From: [2]Anthony Robb To: [[2]3]...@millgreens.f2s.com ; [[3]4]gibbonssoi...@aol.com ; [5]tim rolls BT Cc: [[4]6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP Hello Tim Guess you're thinking about developments such as concert G chanters and high C keys. It would be accurate but silly as we both know. Clearly the pipes have growing international interest but newcomers Googling Northumberland (pipes) would get a very half-baked picture of the instrument and its history. Even if Northumberland had gained widespread acceptance during the appropriate period a good case could now be made for Northumbrian. Surely we should stick with the accepted and now geographically accurate Northumbrian. It is, after all, what most of us call them. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 6/1/10, tim rolls BT [5]tim.ro...@btconnect.com wrote: From: tim rolls BT [6]tim.ro...@btconnect.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [7]...@millgreens.f2s.com, [8]gibbonssoi...@aol.com, Anthony Robb [9]anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: [10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 12:09 Hi All, Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb [11][7]anth...@robbpipes.com To: [12][8]...@millgreens.f2s.com; [13][9]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: [14][10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, [[15]11]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [16][12]gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: [[17]13]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [18][14]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [[19]15]...@millgreens.f2s.com Cc: [[20]16]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a similar time and place to the steam locomotive. But they were called
[NSP] Re: NSP
Etiquette Only couple of gross offenders, but please don't include EVERY message in a thread when you reply to it, just the relevant bits Happy New Year -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Sorry Matt and all, Hadn't thought to look off the bottom of the page, just hit the reply all button. Will try to do better. Tim Etiquette Only couple of gross offenders, but please don't include EVERY message in a thread when you reply to it, just the relevant bits Happy New Year To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Perhaps we should do away with names altogether? We could come with an appropriate symbol, perhaps something from the Lindesfarne Gospels, by which our pipes would be known. In conversation we would refer to them as the pipes formerly known as Northumbrian Smallpipes. The NPS would have to have new badges of office designed and cast to conform with the new name, The Society of the Pipes Formerly Known as the Northumbrian (Northumberland) Smallpipes. The badges would be much larger and require much more silver in the making, but, and this is the point, they would be much larger and require much more silver. We would define the pipes in much the same way as the Dandy Dinmont, icon of Northumberland (Northumbria) replacing the word dog with pipe The Dandie Dinmont (the bagpipe formerly known as Northumbrian (Northumberland) smallpipes) is affectionate and fun-loving. It makes a great companion dog (pipes). Lively, plucky, determined and willful. Independent and intelligent. Bold yet dignified. Reserved with strangers and protective of family and home. Good with all well-behaved children and babies as long as they are raised with them from puppyhood (pipeyhood). Dominance level varies greatly. Some males can be aggressive with other male dogs (pipes or pipers depending on context) in the household while females can be snappy and bad tempered. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Etiquette
Thanks for the reminder, Matt, and my apologies. Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: Etiquette Only couple of gross offenders, but please don't include EVERY message in a thread when you reply to it, just the relevant bits Happy New Year To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Well, that's what Peacock Wright called them. Seems good to me. Francis On 5 Jan 2010, at 15:38, inky adrian wrote: I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS in the old days. Inky-adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
I'd go with that. Problem with Northumbrian is that it may appear that it refers to where the artist comes from (as in Colin Hill, Liverpudlian small-pipes player). ;-) Northumbrian piper may suggest a piper from Northumberland who plays bagpipes (any). Northumberland small-pipes player sounds good and accurate (maybe player is stretching it a little in my case). :-D Colin Hill - Original Message - From: inky adrian inky-adr...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS in the old days. Inky-adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Strange, isn't it? You're right, but I can't recollect ever seeing the Scotland bagpipes mentioned, nor yet the France bagpipes. Yours in puzzlement, but Happy New Year anyway, Richard. P.S. Not being very tall, I suppose I'm a small piper, or at least aspiring eventually to become one. colin wrote: I'd go with that. Problem with Northumbrian is that it may appear that it refers to where the artist comes from (as in Colin Hill, Liverpudlian small-pipes player). ;-) Northumbrian piper may suggest a piper from Northumberland who plays bagpipes (any). Northumberland small-pipes player sounds good and accurate (maybe player is stretching it a little in my case). :-D Colin Hill - Original Message - From: inky adrian inky-adr...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS in the old days. Inky-adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Ii is one of the quirks of our wonderful language that the names of our counties can also serve as adjectives. Think of Durham, Yorkshire, Norfolk etc. Whereas France /French Germany / German and so on Barry On 5 Jan 2010 at 20:48, Richard York wrote: Strange, isn't it? You're right, but I can't recollect ever seeing the Scotland bagpipes mentioned, nor yet the France bagpipes. Yours in puzzlement, but Happy New Year anyway, Richard. P.S. Not being very tall, I suppose I'm a small piper, or at least aspiring eventually to become one. colin wrote: I'd go with that. Problem with Northumbrian is that it may appear that it refers to where the artist comes from (as in Colin Hill, Liverpudlian small-pipes player). ;-) Northumbrian piper may suggest a piper from Northumberland who plays bagpipes (any). Northumberland small-pipes player sounds good and accurate (maybe player is stretching it a little in my case). :-D Colin Hill - Original Message - From: inky adrian inky-adr...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS in the old days. Inky-adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
