Re: PESO - Fishin'
Den 31. mai 2010 kl. 07.50 skrev Bruce Dayton: Early morning as the sun peeks through the trees and fog. Pentax K-x, DA* 16-50/2.8 @ 28mm ISO 500, 1/60 sec @ f/10, Handheld http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/fathersons2010_00096-1.htm Comments welcome Lovely. It brought back some memories... DagT http://www.thrane.name -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Fishin'
Lovely, I want to go fishing! On 31 May 2010 07:50, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote: Early morning as the sun peeks through the trees and fog. Pentax K-x, DA* 16-50/2.8 @ 28mm ISO 500, 1/60 sec @ f/10, Handheld http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/fathersons2010_00096-1.htm Comments welcome -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Fishin'
On 31/05/2010, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote: Early morning as the sun peeks through the trees and fog. Pentax K-x, DA* 16-50/2.8 @ 28mm ISO 500, 1/60 sec @ f/10, Handheld http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/fathersons2010_00096-1.htm Love the overall lighting, perfect balance and the light rays just make it! -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: help RECEIVED with a couple of Windows/dos commands I've forgotten other crap
Ann Sanfedele wrote: Got good info off list... So you guys can go back to sleep now :-) ann (UNLESS - someone knows how to bringback my 79 mgs of sent mail into the Netscape format that the update kinda forced me into...) I take it you have tried the import command under the tools menu? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
Brian Walters wrote: G'day all I've been a bit quiet lately because I'm on the road and in lurk mode. However most of the places I've stayed have either free or cheap WiFi so I've been able to get online more frequently than I thought I would. Anyway... I came across this post on Paul Butzi's blog. It gave me a bit of a chuckle. http://photomusings.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/more-adobe-nightmares/ I invented 12 entirely new languages completely devoted to ways to say nasty, brutish, and vulgar things about Adobe, and then I used each of those new languages until I got tired of them. Almost worthy of sig stature. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO - Chicago May 2010 - Day 1
On 30/05/2010, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: http://photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=505078 I like your style, great little gallery. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/30/2010 5:02 PM, Bob W wrote: Exactly so. You're consistent in your perspective. That's excellent. ... I also think it should be legal for adults to use class A drugs if they want to. Adults are responsible for their own safety; parents and relatives are responsible for the safety of children, not the government or groups of well-meaning do-gooders. Two questions. 1. What is it class A drugs? I am unfamiliar with drugs classification. 2. Consider the same situation from the child perspective. Once born in a state of A, B or C, they become fully fledged citizens of that state, right? Then, does it mean that mere right and privilege of a child to live their life out in full is in fact dependent on degree of responsibility of their parents? I am thinking that it is rather tricky question to answer in a simple clean cut manner. I also think that it is in the direct interest of a state to increase the likelihood of any child growing up to be a full adult. Therefore, as such the state might and probably should endeavor to have an influence on certain things. The government, medical profession etc. should provide information about the effects of these activities on our health and let us decide what we want to do about it, provided we're only affecting ourselves. So, you say, injecting heroin (provided it is injected) is fine as long as it is done behind doors alone? Isn't it a bit shallow perspective? This is the classic liberal position on such matters. Pleasure to make an acquaintance. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/30/2010 5:13 PM, Bob W wrote: [...] out to be just too damn dumb, there will always be someone else suffering the consequences with you or for you and this is exactly where that kind of thinking becomes terminally selfish cheers ecke in that case you're going to have to legislate to remove all possible self-imposed risk from the world. You're going to have to make smoking illegal, you're going to have to make sunbathing for longer than 30 minutes a day illegal, crossing the road while the green man is flashing, walking the streets without wearing a helmet,... B Bob, it is not black/white scenario like you seem to be trying to paint it. I am thinking that self-imposed is the keyword here. If a state can protect you from somebody *else's* stupidity (because, pardon my bluntness, you're not omniscient or omnipotent) and do so for $10 per car or $10 per motorcycle, they might as well go on and do it. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/30/2010 9:00 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: It shouldn't be. But I'm a libertarian, if you want to commit suicide it's none of my concern, as long as you don't take unwilling others with you. That's right. But we're discussing something that I can have no influence onto. Being a child, especially a toddler, I cannot properly call my dad's or my mom's attention that they (not me, see?!) left me in the car under the scorching sun. The state gets to make decisions for you and eventually you end in the position where everything not prohibited is requited. Hell even God allows for free will. There is a very interesting piece written by Stanislaw Lem on the subject. I was thinking about this very notion the other day, Peter. Consider do not steal commandment. Stealing is bad, but by yours and Bob W's logic it should be abolished. As a grown up adult it is my responsibility to keep my belongings in a way that they don't get stolen. And I cannot project my rightfulness or decency onto others. If they want to steal, let them. The next step is of course getting rid of IRS or whatever it is called in your country. You don't have to answer to the above, unless you want to. But I pray you spend a moment and think about it a bit. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/30/2010 11:54 PM, paul stenquist wrote: I didn't say that the fact that much of the cost goes back into the economy is a reason to do this. I just pointed out, correctly, that the cost per device times the number of cars isn't the true cost to society. And I'm not necessarily in favor of regulation. Never have been. But I'm in favor of truth and accuracy. Paul I might as well go a step further and maintain that none of us can actually produce a accurate and truthful assessment of financial/economic aspect of this issue, unless we have some professional economist among us. I for one, wouldn't dare say that mere multiplication of number of cars however approximate it be by the cost of this device is an accurate figure. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 6:06 AM, Ken Waller wrote: Boris, to me the issue is that this is an issue that doesn't affect a great many people. Only those that, for what ever reason, leave their children in their vehicle. And for that the entire society should be penalized ? I am thinking your wording is inexact. Let me try to rephrase in a way I see it. Only those that, for whatever reason, *might* leave their children in their vehicle... Because not many people run red lights daily, only few. But you cannot have road patrols just for them, you have them for everybody. Boris P.S. I am thinking that the entire society is penalized much more by other things, say overgrown bureaucratic system than by $10 extra for every vehicle. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/30/2010 8:44 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: Boris There might be some merit to that. Some studies, (I wish I had a link but a Google search will probably turn up a bunch pro and con), have show that in many cases intersections are safer with fewer lights, and signs. Drivers are more cautious entering, they don't have a false sense of security. Well, yes, I was surprised by some unmanaged crossings around Stanford (I think it was Stanford that I visited some years ago). You will also be surprised that very often if a busy crossing lights break in my area, it is usually major time loss for commuters. However I'll answer on point. Your example is a straw man. The benefit from street lights and other traffic control improvements accrue to all drivers and most pedestrians, pretty much all of society, pretty much directly. Well, I've read some arguments or opinions against that in other messages in this thread, but /I/ agree with you - the benefit is there. The only thing everyone gains from this is a good feeling, that we've /done/ /something/. Which is still likely to a.) not solve the problem, I believe in the idiocy of dedicated idiots, and b.) cause more had wringing when it doesn't work. I know everyone can be and Idiot about something sometimes. Hell I'm an idiot more than most, (someday I'll tell the story of how I ran over my own dog. He survived...), but I don't expect society to save me from my idiocy, because it can't! Well, Peter, you just called an idiot my wife who admitted to me yesterday (we talked about this thread a bit) that since she is sitting next to me and our younger is sitting alone on the back sit, she caught herself once or twice that she was forgetting about Anat. I am thinking that you should at least reconsider and at most apologize. Peter, consider very simple and likely scenario. An alone mother of two kids must get one kid to the hospital. And she cannot leave the other child at home. She takes that child with them and under pressure and stress forgets that poor child in the car. I see no dedicated idiocy here. I see a tragic possibility for which I would gladly pay $10 of my money every year to have it avoided across my country. Admittedly, it'll give me a /good feeling/ that you pointed out, but it as well may save some _innocent_ lives... ... But we have to recognize that life is dangerous. We cannot guarantee perfect safety, to all people at all times. We can't afford it either financially or more importantly for the sake of the individual's spirit. To even attempt to do so is a fools errand. Somebody's got to say stop somewhere. That's right. But you can give it a proper benefit of a doubt, spend your time considering and not dismiss any such offer outright just because. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Two questions. 1. What is it class A drugs? I am unfamiliar with drugs classification. stuff like heroin. 2. Consider the same situation from the child perspective. Once born in a state of A, B or C, they become fully fledged citizens of that state, right? Then, does it mean that mere right and privilege of a child to live their life out in full is in fact dependent on degree of responsibility of their parents? I am thinking that it is rather tricky question to answer in a simple clean cut manner. I also think that it is in the direct interest of a state to increase the likelihood of any child growing up to be a full adult. Therefore, as such the state might and probably should endeavor to have an influence on certain things. broadly speaking it is the parents' responsibility to make sure that their children grow up. However the rest of us as individuals and the state itself have a duty to intervene in certain cases where any person, not just a child, is in clear and present danger. For example, if we see a child suffering in the back of a car or a swimmer being swept away by the current. But that's a long way from saying the state should have an influence on such things. Once you let the state, or other people, make your decisions for you, you have effectively given up your freedom, and responsibility, as an adult to make your own decisions. You might think that because the state in this case would make the same decision as you that nothing is lost. However, you would have established the principle and they will soon make decisions that you do not agree with, and where does that leave you? Furthermore, once you have decided that someone else can make your decisions for you about the upbringing of your child, who is that someone going to be? Who are you going to trust to make your decisions for you? The government, medical profession etc. should provide information about the effects of these activities on our health and let us decide what we want to do about it, provided we're only affecting ourselves. So, you say, injecting heroin (provided it is injected) is fine as long as it is done behind doors alone? Isn't it a bit shallow perspective? I didn't say it should be done alone and behind closed doors, or that it should necessarily be injected. I see no reason at all why it shouldn't be done on public licensed premises (opium dens, effectively) as well, just as we drink at home and in pubs and just as in some places people go to coffee shops to smoke grass. This is the classic liberal position on such matters. Pleasure to make an acquaintance. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Fishin'
Early morning as the sun peeks through the trees and fog. Pentax K-x, DA* 16-50/2.8 @ 28mm ISO 500, 1/60 sec @ f/10, Handheld http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/fathersons2010_00096-1.htm that should be on the cover of Fishin' magazine. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: Zombie Walk through Boston
I wasn't dressed up, but I did wear my expedition hat. :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethpeardonprods/3464594396/ I love the little caption underneath the portrait of a person that says 'This photo has people in it'. It reminds me of the notice on packets of peanuts saying 'Warning: may contain nuts' or on coffee cups saying 'Contents are hot'. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 12:45 PM, Bob W wrote: broadly speaking it is the parents' responsibility to make sure that their children grow up. However the rest of us as individuals and the state itself have a duty to intervene in certain cases where any person, not just a child, is in clear and present danger. For example, if we see a child suffering in the back of a car or a swimmer being swept away by the current. Good. So, there is a minimal or may be even certain degree of mutual help and cooperation. But that's a long way from saying the state should have an influence on such things. Once you let the state, or other people, make your decisions for you, you have effectively given up your freedom, and responsibility, as an adult to make your own decisions. You might think that because the state in this case would make the same decision as you that nothing is lost. However, you would have established the principle and they will soon make decisions that you do not agree with, and where does that leave you? Well, Bob, you and I are not sitting in the pub drinking each a glass of our favorite drink (which in itself is a big drawback), so that I don't think we have the bandwidth to make all the steps from A to B, so to say. What you say is theoretically right. However I fail to see how seat belt or that device that we are discussing in this specific thread take away my freedoms or make me less adult. In fact, cell phone makes me less adult by a good measure and take great deal of my freedoms away, but not the seat belt. Or at least I don't see how it may do so. Furthermore, once you have decided that someone else can make your decisions for you about the upbringing of your child, who is that someone going to be? Who are you going to trust to make your decisions for you? Bob, not leaving my child in a car has nothing to do with their upbringing. Or may be I miss a logical connection/step here? The government, medical profession etc. should provide information about the effects of these activities on our health and let us decide what we want to do about it, provided we're only affecting ourselves. So, you say, injecting heroin (provided it is injected) is fine as long as it is done behind doors alone? Isn't it a bit shallow perspective? I didn't say it should be done alone and behind closed doors, or that it should necessarily be injected. I see no reason at all why it shouldn't be done on public licensed premises (opium dens, effectively) as well, just as we drink at home and in pubs and just as in some places people go to coffee shops to smoke grass. Leper hospitals for leprous?! Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
[...] in that case you're going to have to legislate to remove all possible self-imposed risk from the world. You're going to have to make smoking illegal, you're going to have to make sunbathing for longer than 30 minutes a day illegal, crossing the road while the green man is flashing, walking the streets without wearing a helmet,... B Bob, it is not black/white scenario like you seem to be trying to paint it. I am thinking that self-imposed is the keyword here. If a state can protect you from somebody *else's* stupidity (because, pardon my bluntness, you're not omniscient or omnipotent) and do so for $10 per car or $10 per motorcycle, they might as well go on and do it. yes, sure, but that's changing the terms of the discussion. So far the discussion has been about whether the state has a right to force the individual to something 'for his own good'. I say it doesn't. Now, the classic starting point for liberalism is that you are free to do whatever you want, provided you don't infringe the right of other people to do the same. The state is an institution that we have established to guarantee that principle. Therefore it does have to try and protect me from other people's stupidity in as much as that stupidity might prevent me from going about my lawful business. That's why we enforce red traffic lights, and have gun laws and such like. At the same time, it doesn't absolve me from the responsibility to look after myself. Children are also protected by the state but they are in a special position because unlike normal adults they are not fully autonomous members of society yet. They are under the stewardship of their parents and their parents have the first responsibility for their well-being. The parents have to make the minute-by-minute decisions about what is best for the child, including whether or not it is safe to leave them in the back of a car. Once you start leaving that sort of decision to other people, particularly the state, you might just as well herd all the kids into state-run boarding schools where they will, no doubt, be much safer... Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: Zombie Walk through Boston
David Parsons wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alohadave/sets/72157624039413171/ I attended a Zombie March through downtown Boston yesterday. It was tons of fun, and highly recommended if there is one in your area. More delicious than a bucket of brains. There are some hot zombies in Boston -- der...@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 31/05/2010, Brian Walters supera1...@fastmail.fm wrote: BTW, Paul Butzi is the brains behind SoFoBoMo which gets underway officially tomorrow. http://www.sofobomo.org/HomePage Take a look. I had fun with it in 2009, although I'm still trying to finalise a project for this year. Good work Brian, the last shot's a cracker. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On May 30, 2010, at 11:56 PM, Ken Waller wrote: Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net Subject: Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars On May 30, 2010, at 11:19 PM, Ken Waller wrote: Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net Subject: Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars On May 30, 2010, at 7:47 AM, John Sessoms wrote: Not always forgetfulness - sometimes just plain ignorance. The hyperthermia deaths are sometimes the result of ignorance. But the majority are inadvertently caused by otherwise responsible parents. Ahem Paul I would change that to 'irresponsible parents'. Having children is among other things, a responsibiity. You could change that, but the facts wouldn't support you. Most of those who have inadvertently forgotten an infant have otherwise very clean records. Distraction and the stresses of daily life can cause even the best of men and women to fail from time to time. The record supports that. Yes, it seems like its impossible to forget one's child, but apparently it's not. I didn't say they weren't fine upstanding members of the community, but that they were unwilling to be responsible for their actions, they left their child in the car, I didn't. Everyone makes mistakes, it how we deal with them that is the issue here. I don't know of anyone who has caused the death of their child or someone else's and has been unwilling to take responsibility for the outcome. Some have even been incarcerated, although not many. The Post article that preceded mine deals with that in depth. It's independent safety advocates who have been pushing for a warning device. As I said, I take no position on the issue. Paul Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: help with a couple of Windows/dos commands I've, forgotten and other crap
On May 31, 2010, at 10:01 AM, John Sessoms wrote: From: Adam Maas Win98 still runs? Crawls, limps, hobbles along ... whatever, but yeah it still runs. I still have my old Windows 3.11 install disks somewhere. I thought about installing it in Virtualbox just for kicks, until I realised it requires effort. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Fishin'
Nice scene. Wonderful light. Well done. Paul On May 31, 2010, at 1:50 AM, Bruce Dayton wrote: Early morning as the sun peeks through the trees and fog. Pentax K-x, DA* 16-50/2.8 @ 28mm ISO 500, 1/60 sec @ f/10, Handheld http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/fathersons2010_00096-1.htm Comments welcome -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - My first panorama
On May 31, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Tim Øsleby wrote: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/2010/05/panorama-movatnet-1.html For some reason that reminded me of Lake Pearson. http://www.bluemoon.net.nz/photo/photodb/view.php?p=346r=1 Here's more of a daylight shot. http://www.bluemoon.net.nz/photo/photodb/view.php?p=304r=1 Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: help with a couple of Windows/dos commands I've forgotten andother crap
On May 31, 2010, at 5:19 AM, Bob W wrote: Instead of using an editor that's limited why not try a different editor? Textpad is a very good one http://www.textpad.com/download/. You can download it free on a tryout basis, and pay for it only if you decide to keep it. I liked it so much, I paid for it! I used to use Textpad at work but I switched to Notepad++ http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm It has a couple of simple little features that I just can't go without anymore. And it's neither vi nor Emacs ;) Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On May 30, 2010, at 8:03 PM, Ken Waller wrote: Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Bob W p...@web-options.com Subject: Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars y're not taking into account that the budget is limited so you have to spend the money on the project with the best business case. In other words, if you're going to spend that money you should spend it on the project with the biggest return. Especially if you're using taxpayers' money. I had a boss that use to call this the 'silver bullet approach'. He couldn't afford to let us spend all the available capitol on a variety of projects, he wanted us imagine we were in a battle and he could only give us one bullet - we had to use it very wisely. I believe that hospitals call it triage. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On May 31, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: A absolutely love the suggestion in the most recent reply on his blog: Uninstall both apps and do a complete reinstall. And then repair privileges. And if (when) that doesn't work buy a new version of the software. We're almost getting to the point of completely reinstalling a newly upgraded machine because of our Photoshop licensing problem. It comes down to a silly mistake we made, we bought an upgrade license for a single install but our previous license was actually a multi-pack so it wouldn't activate. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 1:13 PM, Bob W wrote: yes, sure, but that's changing the terms of the discussion. So far the discussion has been about whether the state has a right to force the individual to something 'for his own good'. I say it doesn't. It could be that you and I had a discussion on close but different sets of terms here. I see your point now. I say that the State *may have* a right to force (or very strongly recommend) something to the individual if it prevents severe harm to individual's health or may be even their death. Now, the classic starting point for liberalism is that you are free to do whatever you want, provided you don't infringe the right of other people to do the same. The state is an institution that we have established to guarantee that principle. Therefore it does have to try and protect me from other people's stupidity in as much as that stupidity might prevent me from going about my lawful business. That's why we enforce red traffic lights, and have gun laws and such like. At the same time, it doesn't absolve me from the responsibility to look after myself. That I can agree with. Sans the attribution of this principle to liberalism. It is more live and let live kind of reasoning to me. Children are also protected by the state but they are in a special position because unlike normal adults they are not fully autonomous members of society yet. They are under the stewardship of their parents and their parents have the first responsibility for their well-being. The parents have to make the minute-by-minute decisions about what is best for the child, including whether or not it is safe to leave them in the back of a car. Once you start leaving that sort of decision to other people, particularly the state, you might just as well herd all the kids into state-run boarding schools where they will, no doubt, be much safer... Bob By saying that parents have to make minute-by-minute decisions you actually assign quite a lot to the parents. Modern society goes very long way to make one's life easier, so to say. And here you are asking parents to make minute-by-minute decisions... I don't think it is too liberal, you know. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
PESO street art and skies
from my trip to London and Hampton Court . street art : http://www.flickr.com/photos/la_meduse/4655285617/ skies and clouds : quite like it despite the noise .. http://www.flickr.com/photos/la_meduse/4655903214/sizes/m/ comments welcome . so much to learn and so many good photographers out there dominique -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
2010/5/31 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: I believe that hospitals call it triage. field hospitals, yes. the only war this issue is possibly facing is a flame war. doug, can you implement post/thread triage on the list? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
By saying that parents have to make minute-by-minute decisions you actually assign quite a lot to the parents. ? That's what being a parent is! Modern society goes very long way to make one's life easier, so to say. And here you are asking parents to make minute-by-minute decisions... I don't think it is too liberal, you know. come off it, Boris. If the parents don't make those decisions, who does? Are you seriously telling me that you would grant to someone else the right to take minute-by-minute decisions about your children? Who? Your local catholic priest? The mayor of your town? Your corrupt MP? A social worker you've never seen before and will never see again? The car park attendant at your supermarket? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: help with a couple of Windows/dos commands I've forgotten andother crap
On 31/05/2010, David Mann d...@multisport.net.nz wrote: I used to use Textpad at work but I switched to Notepad++ http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm It has a couple of simple little features that I just can't go without anymore. And it's neither vi nor Emacs ;) I've recently switched to Notepad++ too, my fave used to be Editeur (last update 2005) which has a fatal problem with mouse scroll wheels. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
2010/5/31 Bob W p...@web-options.com: come off it, Boris. If the parents don't make those decisions, who does? Are you seriously telling me that you would grant to someone else the right to take minute-by-minute decisions about your children? Who? Your local catholic priest? The mayor of your town? Your corrupt MP? A social worker you've never seen before and will never see again? The car park attendant at your supermarket? look at the linked article again Bob, please - it states clearly that the cause can be beyond conscious control because it all happens in the lizard portion of your brain. you wouldn't trust your gecko to look after your kids either, would you? liberal or not, I mean come on now! (trying to make light of the controversy, the thread seems to be slowly grinding to a halt at a dead end) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: Zombie Walk through Boston
On May 30, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Cotty wrote: On 30/5/10, David Parsons, discombobulated, unleashed: I attended a Zombie March through downtown Boston yesterday. It was tons of fun, and highly recommended if there is one in your area. These are not sentences I ever expect to read on the PDML. However, I promise I will keep an eye out on our village notice board in case one crops up. We're not unreasonable, I mean, no one's gonna eat your eyes -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Fishin'
Beautifully done, Bruce! Crisp and ideally exposed. Jack --- On Sun, 5/30/10, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote: From: Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com Subject: PESO - Fishin' To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Sunday, May 30, 2010, 10:50 PM Early morning as the sun peeks through the trees and fog. Pentax K-x, DA* 16-50/2.8 @ 28mm ISO 500, 1/60 sec @ f/10, Handheld http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/fathersons2010_00096-1.htm Comments welcome -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
Sooo... The guy upgraded his OS, and an app stops working. snigger Then, what happens in Windows world is that Microsoft gets the blame for issuing a faulty upgrade. Interesting that the feline thingie from Apple is so totally off the hook. /snigger However OS upgrades and Adobe don't go well together on Microsoft either, it seems. Check the responses to this Knowledge base howto: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/508/cpsid_50853.html Jostein 2010/5/31 Brian Walters supera1...@fastmail.fm: G'day all I've been a bit quiet lately because I'm on the road and in lurk mode. However most of the places I've stayed have either free or cheap WiFi so I've been able to get online more frequently than I thought I would. Anyway... I came across this post on Paul Butzi's blog. It gave me a bit of a chuckle. http://photomusings.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/more-adobe-nightmares/ BTW, Paul Butzi is the brains behind SoFoBoMo which gets underway officially tomorrow. http://www.sofobomo.org/HomePage Take a look. I had fun with it in 2009, although I'm still trying to finalise a project for this year. See ya Brian Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Fishin'
Wonderful mood! You captured the time, place and activity perfectly. Dan On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 1:50 AM, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote: Early morning as the sun peeks through the trees and fog. Pentax K-x, DA* 16-50/2.8 @ 28mm ISO 500, 1/60 sec @ f/10, Handheld http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/fathersons2010_00096-1.htm Comments welcome -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO - Chicago May 2010 - Day 1
Wonderful patterns, great colors, very nice gallery. Thanks for sharing it. Dan On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 4:11 AM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/05/2010, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: http://photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=505078 I like your style, great little gallery. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: Zombie Walk through Boston
Larry Colen wrote: On May 30, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Cotty wrote: On 30/5/10, David Parsons, discombobulated, unleashed: I attended a Zombie March through downtown Boston yesterday. It was tons of fun, and highly recommended if there is one in your area. These are not sentences I ever expect to read on the PDML. However, I promise I will keep an eye out on our village notice board in case one crops up. We're not unreasonable, I mean, no one's gonna eat your eyes Oh man, if Jonathan Coulton had been playing in Boston on the same day as the zombie walk I'd have stayed for a few days longer before coming down to NC! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 2:07 PM, Bob W wrote: Modern society goes very long way to make one's life easier, so to say. And here you are asking parents to make minute-by-minute decisions... I don't think it is too liberal, you know. come off it, Boris. If the parents don't make those decisions, who does? Are you seriously telling me that you would grant to someone else the right to take minute-by-minute decisions about your children? Who? Your local catholic priest? The mayor of your town? Your corrupt MP? A social worker you've never seen before and will never see again? The car park attendant at your supermarket? Bob, I am Jewish of Eastern European descent. It means (as if you did not know that ;-) ) that worrying is something that is built-in in me way below the lizard brain, speaking in terms that Ecke used. However I am thinking that we are far enough off the original track here. May be you and I do need to meet anyway and as a matter of truly friendly exchange have a little chat about this and other things. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 2:23 PM, eckinator wrote: 2010/5/31 Bob Wp...@web-options.com: look at the linked article again Bob, please - it states clearly that the cause can be beyond conscious control because it all happens in the lizard portion of your brain. you wouldn't trust your gecko to look after your kids either, would you? liberal or not, I mean come on now! (trying to make light of the controversy, the thread seems to be slowly grinding to a halt at a dead end) Ecke, I am not sure Bob can convince me as I am also pretty stubborn. Neither it would seem I could convince him. I am sure however that he understands me and I hope I understand Bob's point of view well enough. Naturally, under these conditions the only thing that can happen if we continue this talk is more grinding and eventual halt at a dead end. :-) Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
2010/5/31 Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com: Naturally, under these conditions the only thing that can happen if we continue this talk is more grinding and eventual halt at a dead end. Keep grinding guys but don't forget the bumping =) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On May 31, 2010, at 7:05 AM, eckinator wrote: 2010/5/31 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: I believe that hospitals call it triage. field hospitals, yes. the only war this issue is possibly facing is a flame war. doug, can you implement post/thread triage on the list? Wrong. The issue will face a war of words in Washington. In fact, it has already begun. Doug doesn't censor the list. Members are free to ignore a thread if they so choose. For the most part, I have found the discussion quite civil. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 30/05/2010 10:11 PM, Rob Studdert wrote: On 31/05/2010, Bob Sullivanrf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote: These kids aren't that old. It was a late model car with the brake/shift interlock installed. Kids are resourceful! Again I wonder how much of the fault is the parents? My little guy loves to sit in the front seat playing driver, but he's got absolutely no idea that the interlock is there let alone how it works and until he learns to drive I'm not going to tell him. It's all the fault of the parents. It's a special kind of idiot that leaves a young child in command of an operational motor vehicle. On a stupidity scale, it's even dumber than leaving a baby to bake in a child seat. At least that only has the opportunity to kill the infant. Leaving a 4 year old in charge of a running car (or even a stopped one that has the keys in the ignition) has the potential to kill both the kid and a whole slew of passerbys. If a person wants to commit infanticide on their spawn, that's all well and good. While I don't approve, it's their business and the law will deal with them, but don't involve me in your retardic episode by letting some 4 year old toss a car into gear and potentially take out me and my family. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
2010/5/31 P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: Wrong. The issue will face a war of words in Washington. In fact, it has already begun. Great =) ...easily said from my side of the pond... Doug doesn't censor the list. Members are free to ignore a thread if they so choose. I know. I was kidding. Triage suggested it. And the greater benefit for the greater number is a good guiding principle. But some applications of it are ugly. For the most part, I have found the discussion quite civil. Totally. And impressively fact-focused. And hopefully a wake-up call for some. Cheers Ecke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Kids are Dying in Cars
2010/5/31 William Robb war...@gmail.com: If a person wants to commit infanticide on their spawn, that's all well and good. Mark! Even out of context, a point well made. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On May 31, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: A absolutely love the suggestion in the most recent reply on his blog: Uninstall both apps and do a complete reinstall. And then repair privileges. And if (when) that doesn't work buy a new version of the software. IIRC, the timeline for the release of the software was CS3 came first, Snot Leopard was released later, so this fool blaming Adobe for his woes is right up there with leaving infants in car seats on a hot day. If his install went smoothly on whatever came before Snot Leopard and is bunged up on the new OS, then Apple fucked up on their OS WRT being able to sort out Adobe's installer package. Pity that the best the fool can do is bleat on the internet about how Adobe is at fault for a failing of his precious Mac. We're almost getting to the point of completely reinstalling a newly upgraded machine because of our Photoshop licensing problem. It comes down to a silly mistake we made, we bought an upgrade license for a single install but our previous license was actually a multi-pack so it wouldn't activate. Adobe now lets you install on two machines. They are presuming that a single user might have a desktop machine and a laptop. You need to deactivate the software on the machine you are retiring before you uninstall it so that you will still have the license available to you when you go to install it on your new computer. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/05/2010 2:12 AM, Boris Lieberman wrote: So, you say, injecting heroin (provided it is injected) is fine as long as it is done behind doors alone? Isn't it a bit shallow perspective? Actually Boris, if, as a society we said yes, it is OK, and then treated the fallout as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue, both society and the drug user would be better off. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/05/2010, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: If a person wants to commit infanticide on their spawn, that's all well and good. While I don't approve, it's their business and the law will deal with them, but don't involve me in your retardic episode by letting some 4 year old toss a car into gear and potentially take out me and my family. Kids and ignition keys don't mix. My little guy never gets his hands on my car keys no matter how far or near we are to the car. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
2010/5/31 William Robb war...@gmail.com: So, you say, injecting heroin (provided it is injected) is fine as long as it is done behind doors alone? Isn't it a bit shallow perspective? Actually Boris, if, as a society we said yes, it is OK, and then treated the fallout as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue, both society and the drug user would be better off. Germany treats it as such an issue. It is illegal to own, sell and use but if you do you get a free Methadone therapy. The results are quite good. No idea about figures though, as in is the social cost lower or higher. But it is certainly not OK to say it is OK, there are just too many implications. It is OK to say yes we will deal with it openly which is one way I can read William's statement but saying it is OK raises issues as to prevention, education, etc. So yay to OK we deal with it as a fact but NAY to we outright allow it Not to mention there goes your 10 bucks... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/05/2010 2:14 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: Bob, it is not black/white scenario like you seem to be trying to paint it. I am thinking that self-imposed is the keyword here. If a state can protect you from somebody *else's* stupidity (because, pardon my bluntness, you're not omniscient or omnipotent) and do so for $10 per car or $10 per motorcycle, they might as well go on and do it. So Boris, how is forcing me to spend an extra couple of hundred dollars or so on a new vehicle for a baby seat monitor that will never be used going to protect me from someone else's stupidity? How is someone doing a shake and bake on their infant by locking them in a car going to harm me personally? When people toss numbers around like $10.00/ vehicle, they are blowing smoke out their ass. When our government mandated daytime headlight use, and forced manufacturers to put a device into vehicles that forced the headlights on whenever the car was put in gear, it may have only been a $10.00 component, but the cost to the consumer was a couple of hundred dollars per car according to the Canadian Automobile Association at the time the legislation was passed. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/05/2010 4:13 AM, Bob W wrote: you might just as well herd all the kids into state-run boarding schools where they will, no doubt, be much safer... Canada tried that with a portion of it's population. If you are curious, Google residential schools (you many have to add Canada to that if Google practices geographic centralism. We found it to be a very stupid and extremely damaging and expensive waste of human life. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 9:28 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: On May 31, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: We're almost getting to the point of completely reinstalling a newly upgraded machine because of our Photoshop licensing problem. It comes down to a silly mistake we made, we bought an upgrade license for a single install but our previous license was actually a multi-pack so it wouldn't activate. Adobe now lets you install on two machines. They are presuming that a single user might have a desktop machine and a laptop. You need to deactivate the software on the machine you are retiring before you uninstall it so that you will still have the license available to you when you go to install it on your new computer. -- William Robb Different issue actually, Adobe's VERY restrictive on licensing, upgrades have to be the same type of license as the previous one. For example, I've got PS CS3 Extended. I don't use the extra features of Extended over Standard, but due to licensing restrictions I can't buy an upgrade version of CS5 Standard as my copy of CS3 Extended won't qualify for the upgrade key, I have to buy CS5 Extended instead. Thankfully I'm a student again and get student pricing which is as cheap as upgrades. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
[...] I know. I was kidding. Triage suggested it. And the greater benefit for the greater number is a good guiding principle. But some applications of it are ugly. it's a terrible guiding principle - it inevitably leads to totalitarianism. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Bob W p...@web-options.com writes: I don't believe buckling up should be mandatory, any more than wearing cycling helmets should be mandatory. I also think it should be legal for adults to use class A drugs if they want to. In principle, I'm with you on all three points. However, there's also the cost to society of handling the results of people's careless choices. If, say, cyclists not wearing helmets results in lots of emergency room capacity being taken up by them, thus reducing the available capacity for handling other patients, then society may have a right to demand that they start wearing those helmets. -tih -- SIGTHTBABW - a signal sent from Unix to its programmers at random intervals to make them remember that There Has To Be A Better Way --Erik Naggum -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/05/2010 4:59 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: By saying that parents have to make minute-by-minute decisions you actually assign quite a lot to the parents. Modern society goes very long way to make one's life easier, so to say. And here you are asking parents to make minute-by-minute decisions... I don't think it is too liberal, you know. Life is about making minute by minute decisions. Get behind the wheel of a car and make the wrong decision (or no decision) while traveling 120KPH on a freeway and see where you end up. It's part of what we call taking responsibility for your chosen activity. If two people are going to engage in unprotected sex, they stand a good chance of becoming parents (presuming heterosexual activity). This puts the onus on those people to make minute by minute decisions for the life they have created, be it deciding who is going to do the 2:00 AM feeding to who is going to change the diapers at 3:00, to who is going to drop the kid off at the daycare. If they have a concern about not being able to make a correct decision in regard to the latter, then they should either have used birth control or perhaps look into buying some sort of monitoring device that will remind them that they have a kid in a car seat when they exit the vehicle. The point is, that the onus is on the parent to look after their child in a way that is consistent with ensuring that child grows up to adulthood and becomes a contributing member of society. It's not my responsibility to do that unless I put myself in a position where it becomes my responsibility (becoming a teacher for example). I would even disagree that it is my responsibility to get involved in a child being locked in a hot car, in that the law should have no right to force me to get involved, either by actively coercing me by saying I have to, or passively coercing me by charging me with negligence for not doing so. And the state certainly has no right whatsoever to force me to subsidize parents by spreading the cost of a device across every car sold that will remind them that they had sex last year. I find it galling enough that as a non parent my tax dollars are being spent on subsidized day care or school taxes. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Bob W p...@web-options.com writes: Now, the classic starting point for liberalism is that you are free to do whatever you want, provided you don't infringe the right of other people to do the same. With regard to my previous comment about taking up emergency room capacity: the decision that needs to be made is whether a specific choice, such as not wearing a seat belt in you car, has sufficient repercussions that it in fact unduly infringes on others' rights to, say, walk on the sidewalk without wearing a helmet. -tih -- SIGTHTBABW - a signal sent from Unix to its programmers at random intervals to make them remember that There Has To Be A Better Way --Erik Naggum -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 4:45 PM, William Robb wrote: So Boris, how is forcing me to spend an extra couple of hundred dollars or so on a new vehicle for a baby seat monitor that will never be used going to protect me from someone else's stupidity? How is someone doing a shake and bake on their infant by locking them in a car going to harm me personally? Well, I am not sure your car has it, but my sure does - it is called ISOFix and it is a set of anchors (for lack of better word) that are used in order to extra securely attach a child seat... Suppose, sir William that you have only a family of two, which as far as I remember is the case for you. Now, tell me does it really help you to have 2 air bags for special protection of rear seat occupants??? I am thinking that those air bags are way more expensive than the above monitor. Yet, I don't recall hearing much protest from you or anyone else on this. When people toss numbers around like $10.00/ vehicle, they are blowing smoke out their ass. When our government mandated daytime headlight use, and forced manufacturers to put a device into vehicles that forced the headlights on whenever the car was put in gear, it may have only been a $10.00 component, but the cost to the consumer was a couple of hundred dollars per car according to the Canadian Automobile Association at the time the legislation was passed. I agree. Bob W indicated that he wouldn't mind if it were an option. However, I would add to Bob W's agreement a requirement of my own that such a system would be available from any car manufacturer as an extra cost option. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 31/05/2010 7:53 AM, Adam Maas wrote: Different issue actually, Adobe's VERY restrictive on licensing, upgrades have to be the same type of license as the previous one. For example, I've got PS CS3 Extended. I don't use the extra features of Extended over Standard, but due to licensing restrictions I can't buy an upgrade version of CS5 Standard as my copy of CS3 Extended won't qualify for the upgrade key, I have to buy CS5 Extended instead. Thankfully I'm a student again and get student pricing which is as cheap as upgrades. Interesting. I just tried updating from CS Extended to CS5, and was able to reach the checkout. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/05/2010 7:41 AM, eckinator wrote: 2010/5/31 William Robbwar...@gmail.com: So, you say, injecting heroin (provided it is injected) is fine as long as it is done behind doors alone? Isn't it a bit shallow perspective? Actually Boris, if, as a society we said yes, it is OK, and then treated the fallout as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue, both society and the drug user would be better off. Germany treats it as such an issue. It is illegal to own, sell and use but if you do you get a free Methadone therapy. The results are quite good. No idea about figures though, as in is the social cost lower or higher. But it is certainly not OK to say it is OK, there are just too many implications. It is OK to say yes we will deal with it openly which is one way I can read William's statement but saying it is OK raises issues as to prevention, education, etc. So yay to OK we deal with it as a fact but NAY to we outright allow it Not to mention there goes your 10 bucks... I'm very much a proponent of educating people regarding the consequences of actions they might take, but not of intervening if their actions don't stand much chance of only harming them. My wording would have been better if I had said that society would be better off if we decriminalized heroin use (which is not the same as saying it is OK), and then treating the fallout as a health issue. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: help RECEIVED with a couple of Windows/dos commands I've forgotten other crap
mike wilson wrote: Ann Sanfedele wrote: Got good info off list... So you guys can go back to sleep now :-) ann (UNLESS - someone knows how to bringback my 79 mgs of sent mail into the Netscape format that the update kinda forced me into...) I take it you have tried the import command under the tools menu? um - no - oh mighty Netscape guru... want to spell it out for me? ann - not as hep technologically speaking as I used to think I was -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
I don't believe buckling up should be mandatory, any more than wearing cycling helmets should be mandatory. I also think it should be legal for adults to use class A drugs if they want to. In principle, I'm with you on all three points. However, there's also the cost to society of handling the results of people's careless choices. If, say, cyclists not wearing helmets results in lots of emergency room capacity being taken up by them, thus reducing the available capacity for handling other patients, then society may have a right to demand that they start wearing those helmets. as I replied earlier, society is going to have to make some pretty drastic decisions if they adopt that line of thinking. It would need to legislate against all kinds of self-imposed risk. Taking cycle helmets as an example, more pedestrians and motorists than cyclists die of head injuries so you'd have to mandate helmet wearing for both those groups too. You'd need to ban things like skiing and motorcycling, rugby, Saturday night fighting, etc. etc. The approach you suggest leads to absurd consequences which would be unacceptable in any right-thinking society. The only reasonable approach to this in a society like ours, with socialized medicine, is to accept that people have a right to take part in risky activities and factor it into the cost of providing the healthcare. Furthermore these are not necessarily careless choices, as you put it. I have given a lot of thought to the question of wearing a cycling helmet and have chosen not to. Other people give careful thought to going rock-climbing, parachuting and crossing the road without wearing safety gear, eating butter and McDonalds burgers, and after careful thought they choose to undertake these risk-filled activities. It's part of being a human and living in a civilised society. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 5:09 PM, William Robb wrote: The point is, that the onus is on the parent to look after their child in a way that is consistent with ensuring that child grows up to adulthood and becomes a contributing member of society. True. It's not my responsibility to do that unless I put myself in a position where it becomes my responsibility (becoming a teacher for example). Also true. I would even disagree that it is my responsibility to get involved in a child being locked in a hot car, in that the law should have no right to force me to get involved, either by actively coercing me by saying I have to, or passively coercing me by charging me with negligence for not doing so. Well, that's disputable, but it would be a general ethics dispute, which I think we might want to avoid, at least on list. And the state certainly has no right whatsoever to force me to subsidize parents by spreading the cost of a device across every car sold that will remind them that they had sex last year. I find it galling enough that as a non parent my tax dollars are being spent on subsidized day care or school taxes. Point taken. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/05/2010 8:12 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: On 5/31/2010 4:45 PM, William Robb wrote: So Boris, how is forcing me to spend an extra couple of hundred dollars or so on a new vehicle for a baby seat monitor that will never be used going to protect me from someone else's stupidity? How is someone doing a shake and bake on their infant by locking them in a car going to harm me personally? Well, I am not sure your car has it, but my sure does - it is called ISOFix and it is a set of anchors (for lack of better word) that are used in order to extra securely attach a child seat... Yes, I am familiar with them. I have them in my truck, and in my wife's car. She uses them to secure the dog kennel, I use them to secure my toolbox. Suppose, sir William that you have only a family of two, which as far as I remember is the case for you. Now, tell me does it really help you to have 2 air bags for special protection of rear seat occupants??? Neither of my vehicles have rear seat airbags, and in fact my truck no longer has rear seats or seatbelts. I removed both to make it easier to carry my dogs. I am thinking that those air bags are way more expensive than the above monitor. Yet, I don't recall hearing much protest from you or anyone else on this. Even if I don't have children, there is a good chance that I may well be carrying rear seat passengers (not in my truck though) at some point. IIRC, it's been pretty well documented that airbags can cause very young children significant injury, which I believe is why car seats should go into the vehicle facing backwards rather than forwards if there is an airbag present on the seat. When people toss numbers around like $10.00/ vehicle, they are blowing smoke out their ass. When our government mandated daytime headlight use, and forced manufacturers to put a device into vehicles that forced the headlights on whenever the car was put in gear, it may have only been a $10.00 component, but the cost to the consumer was a couple of hundred dollars per car according to the Canadian Automobile Association at the time the legislation was passed. I agree. Bob W indicated that he wouldn't mind if it were an option. However, I would add to Bob W's agreement a requirement of my own that such a system would be available from any car manufacturer as an extra cost option. Again, you would do better to insist that it be an option on car seats, not cars. As soon as it is an option on cars, it sill become a standard feature at an extra cost to everyone, whether you need it or not. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: Zombie Walk through Boston
On 5/31/2010 7:42 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
On May 30, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Cotty wrote:
On 30/5/10, David Parsons, discombobulated, unleashed:
I attended a Zombie March through downtown Boston yesterday. It was
tons of fun, and highly recommended if there is one in your area.
These are not sentences I ever expect to read on the PDML. However, I
promise I will keep an eye out on our village notice board in case one
crops up.
We're not unreasonable, I mean, no one's gonna eat your eyes
--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
None of us have brains so we're safe then.
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Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/05/2010 8:28 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: I would even disagree that it is my responsibility to get involved in a child being locked in a hot car, in that the law should have no right to force me to get involved, either by actively coercing me by saying I have to, or passively coercing me by charging me with negligence for not doing so. Well, that's disputable, but it would be a general ethics dispute, which I think we might want to avoid, at least on list. To a great extent we are discussing ethics. That is what the law is about. We take the ethics we would like to see in our society and compel people into following what we think is an ethical approach. It tends to break down when special interest groups get their wedge into the door and start to force people into doing not what is necessarily right for society, but what is right for them. To bring this back to the discussion at hand, if a special interest group in my country put a big push on to have some sort of child alert device mandated into every new vehicle sold, they would make a lot of noise about it being for the children, and anyone who disagreed would be branded as a child hater who wants to see kids getting killed in hot cars. By making this jump in logic, they would effectively shut up any discussion on the subject and would force their will onto the majority of the people. I've seen this sort of thing happen enough to be very wary of any special interest group. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 4:36 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:
On 5/30/2010 8:44 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
Boris
There might be some merit to that. Some studies, (I wish I had a link
but a Google search will probably turn up a bunch pro and con), have
show that in many cases intersections are safer with fewer lights,
and signs. Drivers are more cautious entering, they don't have a
false sense of security.
Well, yes, I was surprised by some unmanaged crossings around Stanford
(I think it was Stanford that I visited some years ago). You will also
be surprised that very often if a busy crossing lights break in my area,
it is usually major time loss for commuters.
However I'll answer on point. Your example is a straw man. The
benefit from street lights and other traffic control improvements
accrue to all drivers and most pedestrians, pretty much all of
society, pretty much directly.
Well, I've read some arguments or opinions against that in other
messages in this thread, but /I/ agree with you - the benefit is there.
The only thing everyone gains from this is a good feeling, that we've
/done/ /something/. Which is still likely to a.) not solve the
problem, I believe in the idiocy of dedicated idiots, and b.) cause
more had wringing when it doesn't work. I know everyone can be and
Idiot about something sometimes. Hell I'm an idiot more than most,
(someday I'll tell the story of how I ran over my own dog. He
survived...), but I don't expect society to save me from my idiocy,
because it can't!
Well, Peter, you just called an idiot my wife who admitted to me
yesterday (we talked about this thread a bit) that since she is sitting
next to me and our younger is sitting alone on the back sit, she caught
herself once or twice that she was forgetting about Anat. I am thinking
that you should at least reconsider and at most apologize.
Peter, consider very simple and likely scenario. An alone mother of
two kids must get one kid to the hospital. And she cannot leave the
other child at home. She takes that child with them and under pressure
and stress forgets that poor child in the car. I see no dedicated
idiocy here. I see a tragic possibility for which I would gladly pay
$10 of my money every year to have it avoided across my country.
Admittedly, it'll give me a /good feeling/ that you pointed out, but
it as well may save some _innocent_ lives...
... But we have to recognize that life is dangerous. We cannot
guarantee perfect safety, to all people at all times. We can't afford
it either financially or more importantly for the sake of the
individual's spirit. To even attempt to do so is a fools errand.
Somebody's got to say stop somewhere.
That's right. But you can give it a proper benefit of a doubt, spend
your time considering and not dismiss any such offer outright just
because.
Boris
I won't appoligize, after all I also called myself an idiot. There are
other options, if your car has keyless entry you may already have one
solution. Some keyless systems won't let you lock the car if an
electronic key is in the car. If yours works that way attach the fob to
the baby's car seat. The car won't let you forget it. I'm sure that
there are other solutions if you're that worried. But your wife didn't
forget the child, and I doubt she would, almost forgetting is something
else. But that brings up an important question; Why do you expect or
want the State to tell you to do something that you already know you
should do, why do you want the State to treat you as an incompetent?
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Re: PESO - Fishin'
Bruce, I especially like how the light thru the trees falls on the fisherman, and the fog outlines the path the light took. Wonderful photo...good for next year's pdml annual! Regards, Bob S. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote: Early morning as the sun peeks through the trees and fog. Pentax K-x, DA* 16-50/2.8 @ 28mm ISO 500, 1/60 sec @ f/10, Handheld http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/fathersons2010_00096-1.htm Comments welcome -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
...you might just as well herd all the kids into state-run boarding
schools where they will, no doubt, be much safer...
laughingGood one Bob./laughing
On 5/31/2010 6:13 AM, Bob W wrote:
[...]
in that case you're going to have to legislate to remove all possible
self-imposed risk from the world. You're going to have to make smoking
illegal, you're going to have to make sunbathing for longer than 30
minutes a day illegal, crossing the road while the green man is
flashing, walking the streets without wearing a helmet,...
B
Bob, it is not black/white scenario like you seem to be trying to
paint it. I am thinking that self-imposed is the keyword here. If a
state can protect you from somebody *else's* stupidity (because,
pardon my bluntness, you're not omniscient or omnipotent) and do so
for $10 per car or $10 per motorcycle, they might as well go on and
do it.
yes, sure, but that's changing the terms of the discussion. So far the
discussion has been about whether the state has a right to force the
individual to something 'for his own good'. I say it doesn't.
Now, the classic starting point for liberalism is that you are free to
do whatever you want, provided you don't infringe the right of other
people to do the same. The state is an institution that we have
established to guarantee that principle. Therefore it does have to try
and protect me from other people's stupidity in as much as that
stupidity might prevent me from going about my lawful business. That's
why we enforce red traffic lights, and have gun laws and such like. At
the same time, it doesn't absolve me from the responsibility to look
after myself.
Children are also protected by the state but they are in a special
position because unlike normal adults they are not fully autonomous
members of society yet. They are under the stewardship of their
parents and their parents have the first responsibility for their
well-being. The parents have to make the minute-by-minute decisions
about what is best for the child, including whether or not it is safe
to leave them in the back of a car. Once you start leaving that sort
of decision to other people, particularly the state, you might just as
well herd all the kids into state-run boarding schools where they
will, no doubt, be much safer...
Bob
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Re: PESO street art and skies
OMG! Those trees have the terrible pokadot disease. They need to be quarentined immediately. Nice image of the setting and unusual scenery. Regards, Bob S. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Madame RD romd...@orange.fr wrote: from my trip to London and Hampton Court . street art : http://www.flickr.com/photos/la_meduse/4655285617/ skies and clouds : quite like it despite the noise .. http://www.flickr.com/photos/la_meduse/4655903214/sizes/m/ comments welcome . so much to learn and so many good photographers out there dominique -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 01/06/2010, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I am not sure your car has it, but my sure does - it is called ISOFix and it is a set of anchors (for lack of better word) that are used in order to extra securely attach a child seat... So glad you brought this up Boris ;-) ISOFix is proven to be more effective in most crash simulations than the conventional seat belt anchorages however due to Australian Design Rules it's illegal to fit an ISOFIX seat to a car in Australia and it doesn't look like changing any time soon. See how we are protected by legislation. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
PESO Velothon Berlin 2010
Sunday was a bicyle race in Berlin, called Skoda Velothon 2010 Pentax K100D, Walimex 85mm F1.4 http://www.flickr.com/photos/steffenz/4652617613/ More: http://www.flickr.com/photos/steffenz/tags/velothon/ Comments welcome. best regards Steffen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Bob W p...@web-options.com writes: The approach you suggest leads to absurd consequences which would be unacceptable in any right-thinking society. Only if you insist on taking it to the extreme. Real societies don't. It's part of being a human and living in a civilised society. To me, an important part of that is the establishment of common rules that we all choose to follow in order to further our common interest. -tih -- SIGTHTBABW - a signal sent from Unix to its programmers at random intervals to make them remember that There Has To Be A Better Way --Erik Naggum -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
Brian Walters wrote: I came across this post on Paul Butzi's blog. It gave me a bit of a chuckle. http://photomusings.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/more-adobe-nightmares/ Thanks for that, Brian. I got much more then a chuckle from it; more of a painful side-splitting effect. :) -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
The approach you suggest leads to absurd consequences which would be unacceptable in any right-thinking society. Only if you insist on taking it to the extreme. Real societies don't. that's because real societies don't adopt the approach you suggest. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 31/5/10, Rob Studdert, discombobulated, unleashed: Kids and ignition keys don't mix. My little guy never gets his hands on my car keys no matter how far or near we are to the car. This only works on the premise that your little guy is littler than you. Once it's the other way around, things get a lot trickier ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
OT: Number crunchers
Some interesting data here about the world's supercomputers: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10187248.stm 2 things that surprised me were the extent to which Linux dominates, and the mere fact that Windows has a share of the market at all. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Kids are Dying in Cars
Kids and ignition keys don't mix. My little guy never gets his hands on my car keys no matter how far or near we are to the car. This only works on the premise that your little guy is littler than you. Once it's the other way around, things get a lot trickier ;-) next time we have some hot weather just leave him in the back while you and Alma go for a drink... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Bob W p...@web-options.com writes: The approach you suggest leads to absurd consequences which would be unacceptable in any right-thinking society. Only if you insist on taking it to the extreme. Real societies don't. that's because real societies don't adopt the approach you suggest. Then you've misunderstood me. I'm only saying that it may be necessary for societies to limit the freedom of individual members to perform acts that may result in unacceptable added cost or reduced freedom to other members of that same society. -tih -- SIGTHTBABW - a signal sent from Unix to its programmers at random intervals to make them remember that There Has To Be A Better Way --Erik Naggum -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Then you've misunderstood me. I'm only saying that it may be necessary for societies to limit the freedom of individual members to perform acts that may result in unacceptable added cost or reduced freedom to other members of that same society. sure, that's perfectly consistent with the liberal idea. The difficulties arise when you try to apply the limits fairly and how you decide what unacceptable means. In the case you mentioned - bicycle helmets - my response is that there are other activities which people take part in which entail far greater costs to society, and these include everyday activities such as eating the wrong type of food, smoking, drinking too much and not taking enough exercise. Indeed, it has been shown that enforcing the use of cycle helmets leads to a greater cost to society because it reduces overall health levels. So you have to be very careful deciding how and why you are going to limit somebody's freedom, and be prepared for a fight. You have to be prepared to justify limiting one activity as opposed to some other which may cause similar harm to society, and you have to decide why you should stop with that activity - why not ban all activities which entail a cost to society? It's up to you to answer these questions as soon as you start proposing limits on freedom. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
2010/5/31 Bob W p...@web-options.com: [...] I know. I was kidding. Triage suggested it. And the greater benefit for the greater number is a good guiding principle. But some applications of it are ugly. it's a terrible guiding principle - it inevitably leads to totalitarianism. Democracy just as much. Democratorships like the Bush era are fortunately rare. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 5/31/10, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting. I just tried updating from CS Extended to CS5, and was able to reach the checkout. Yeah. Go ahead and buy it. Sucker. g -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ __o _'\,_ (*)/ (*) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 5/30/10, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: I came across this post on Paul Butzi's blog. It gave me a bit of a chuckle. http://photomusings.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/more-adobe-nightmares/ and they say Dante was inventive in his description of Hell. I was miffed the other day when Adobe decided that, because I had the audacity to surf to their site with Firefox, I had to install a Reader Installer plug-in before I could install Reader. But the 17 disk swaps kinda takes the cake. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ __o _'\,_ (*)/ (*) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 11:12:10AM +0300, Boris Liberman wrote: 2. Consider the same situation from the child perspective. Once born in a state of A, B or C, they become fully fledged citizens of that state, right? Wrong. For some number of years (exact number depending on where you live) they are citizens, but not yet fully fledged - they are minors. A minor does not have the right to vote, or to enter into legally binding contracts; a parent (or a legal guardian acting in loco parentis) gets to make those decisions. As such, it's the parents responsibility tp look after the child. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO street art and skies
too late for the quarantine ; there were six or seven or them already spoted .. dominique Le 31/05/10 17:00, Bob Sullivan a écrit : OMG! Those trees have the terrible pokadot disease. They need to be quarentined immediately. Nice image of the setting and unusual scenery. Regards, Bob S. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Madame RDromd...@orange.fr wrote: from my trip to London and Hampton Court . street art : http://www.flickr.com/photos/la_meduse/4655285617/ skies and clouds : quite like it despite the noise .. http://www.flickr.com/photos/la_meduse/4655903214/sizes/m/ comments welcome . so much to learn and so many good photographers out there dominique -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
2010/5/31 William Robb war...@gmail.com: I find it galling enough that as a non parent my tax dollars are being spent on subsidized day care or school taxes. Pondering whether to take a deep breath and shut my trap or let you have a piece of my mind here... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Bob W p...@web-options.com writes: sure, that's perfectly consistent with the liberal idea. The difficulties arise when you try to apply the limits fairly and how you decide what unacceptable means. I never said it was easy. :) Anwyay, we're obviously on the same page. -tih -- SIGTHTBABW - a signal sent from Unix to its programmers at random intervals to make them remember that There Has To Be A Better Way --Erik Naggum -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 01:05:54PM +0200, eckinator wrote: 2010/5/31 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: I believe that hospitals call it triage. field hospitals, yes. the only war this issue is possibly facing is a flame war. doug, can you implement post/thread triage on the list? Actually, the thread is doing surprisingly well. Apart from a few unfortunate uses of terms like idiot or bullshit, the discussion has mostly been conducted using mostly well-reasoned arguments. That said, this is one of those issues (like religion, or politics) where it is extremely unlikely that anyone will change their opinion. As such, I feel it is probably time to let the thread fade away so we can get back to our discussions of art (or Art) and aperture s(t)imulators. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Kids are Dying in Cars
Bob, When I was 5 or 6 years old, my family went for a day trip in Pennsylvania to look at the autumn leaves. My parents left my 2-yr old brother, asleep in the car seat, and we walked maybe 50 yards up the road, still in sight of the vehicle. When we turned around to walk back to the car we discovered he had put it in neutral and it rolled backwards some number of feet across the road and over the edge of a hill but then got stuck. No damage to him or to the car. It was a '59 Ford Fairlane wagon which looked like this except bronze and white. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2527710480_74ecd0bb5d.jpg?v=0 My parents had to call a tow-truck, and were by no means well off, so lesson learned. I remember them being upset about the what MIGHT have happened. My brother is still a dumbass and I hope he doesn't read this. :-) Not too smart of my parents, 1) leaving a baby in a car seat in an unattended vehicle (though this was '65/'66), 2) not having the emergency brake set. But neither were my parents total idiots. It was a lapse in judgement (or even simply, momentarily not thinking) that fortunately didn't have dire consequences. I know they left him there because he was asleep. What could happen? I suspect the same is true for a very high percentage of people that forget a child is in the car. I can't imagine myself doing it, but I can understand how it could happen. Especially in a scenario where, a stressed-out, young mom, needs to run in somewhere very quickly, say a doctor's office, expects to be gone for just a minute, but gets stuck for 15 - 20. Maybe the baby has been sick and is now finally asleep so instead of waking and lugging a fussy baby inside, she decides to simply let it sleep. Air conditioner was on in the car before she got out and shut off engine. I know what I would do if I ever came across the situation where a child was left in a sealed car. I would bust a window and wait for the parent to return. I'd apologize for the busted window and the last thing I would do, no never, would be to call a Social Services department. Tom C. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:20 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote: Rob, I remember playing with the car when I was a child. This accident was clearly the fault of the parents. Who leaves little kids in a running car on the driveway of their house. It's just a matter of time before the kids stumble on the right combination to get the car into gear. Regards, Bob S. On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/05/2010, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote: These kids aren't that old. It was a late model car with the brake/shift interlock installed. Kids are resourceful! Again I wonder how much of the fault is the parents? My little guy loves to sit in the front seat playing driver, but he's got absolutely no idea that the interlock is there let alone how it works and until he learns to drive I'm not going to tell him. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 4:21 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:
On 5/30/2010 11:54 PM, paul stenquist wrote:
I didn't say that the fact that much of the cost goes back into the
economy is a reason to do this. I just pointed out, correctly, that
the cost per device times the number of cars isn't the true cost to
society. And I'm not necessarily in favor of regulation. Never have
been. But I'm in favor of truth and accuracy. Paul
I might as well go a step further and maintain that none of us can
actually produce a accurate and truthful assessment of
financial/economic aspect of this issue, unless we have some
professional economist among us. I for one, wouldn't dare say that
mere multiplication of number of cars however approximate it be by the
cost of this device is an accurate figure.
Boris
As someone who was trained to be an economist, I can tell you few of
them are even capable of making objective assessments, and even fewer
who can make those assessments do.
Lets look at the utility of this device.
According to Ask.com 230 children have died from being left in cars in
the US since 1998. Assuming for the sake of argument well take the
average number for a year. That works out to 23 children per year.
The population of the US was in July of 2009 estimated to be
307,006,550, (which is too damned accurate for an estamate in my
estimation).
Simple mathematics, (and I take no responsibility for absolute accuracy
on this I could be off by an order of magnitude), gives a result of
.0024 deaths of this kind per hundred thousand of population. Now lets
just think about that for a moment. Even if I'm off by an order of
magnitude on the low side, the odds of this happening are vanishingly
small, but since it happens finite, demonstrably so.
Now lets assume that each family of four owns one car. (Very simplistic
I know, but that's really how economists work, If I were really doing a
study I'd refine this considerably, but in the end my numbers wouldn't
be any more or less meaningful). That gives a rough estimate of
76751637.5 cars, (I wonder who gets the half car, with my luck probably
me). I'll dispense with how many cars per hundred thousand of
population, and leave that as exercise for those who actually give a
rats a**.
Now I'm going to put my engineers hat on for a moment, (software, but
still, I have held that title), and talk about costs. I figure the
device in question could be put together for about $10~$15 of off the
shelf parts, (engineers are always pulling numbers out of their a**),
but it will cost an order of magnitude more once assembled and installed
in a car, lets split the difference and call it $125.00, (now I'll don
my retailers hat and pull a few more numbers), but the final consumer
will pay an order of magnitude more... OK maybe not the full $1250,
maybe only half that. So lets say $600. (Yes, economists really do
work this way).
Now we have some hard numbers. this gives us a total cost of
$46,050,982,500. to society. The side benefits are beside the point.
Spending that kind of money will help the economy no matter how it's
spent, (I would do the math but it requires complex derivatives, and
really most economists don't understand it either). The actual stated
benefit would be to a very small percentage of the population.
We must remember that all cars won't have this feature now, in fact as
the average car lasts about 10 years all cars won't have this feature
for 10 years, and given that most devices that don't directly benefit
the driver fall by the wayside after warranted service expires a lot
that have it built in won't either.
For this we might save and I stress might save the lives of 26 children
a year. I say the money is better spent on cigarettes and booze.
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Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 7:05 AM, eckinator wrote:
2010/5/31 Larry Colenl...@red4est.com:
I believe that hospitals call it triage.
field hospitals, yes. the only war this issue is possibly facing is a
flame war. doug, can you implement post/thread triage on the list?
Every hospitial engages in triage, under most circumstances it's not as
evident. During a crysus it becomes a lot more evident.
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Camping at GFM
Who's camping? If anyone needs a place to crash, lemme know. I'll bring along the big, giant tent. My father-in-law has graciously lent his screened pavilion to the cause, so maybe we can cover a picnic table and gather there during the inevitable rain. I'll throw some extension cords and power strips, too. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ __o _'\,_ (*)/ (*) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 06:32:23PM +0200, eckinator wrote: 2010/5/31 William Robb war...@gmail.com: I find it galling enough that as a non parent my tax dollars are being spent on subsidized day care or school taxes. Pondering whether to take a deep breath and shut my trap or let you have a piece of my mind here... Well, I'm a non-parent, too, and my takes are being spent on a whole lot of things I don't like. But I view the two examples quoted as a case where there is some long-term benefit to me. Subsidised day care is good - it lets people get back to work (doing jobs that I personally wouldn't want to do myself) without it being bad for their children. I don't see why day care should be a benefit only available to people who work at Google, say. School taxes is an even easier issue. Education is an investment that yields a pretty high return. A kid who successfully completes the journey through scholl (and state college) is less likely to end up breaking into my house and stealing my cameras. I'd rather pay $1 to educate them than $5 to arrest them and stick them in prison. School taxes are justifiable from a purely selfish viewpoint. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:29:17PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote: On 5/30/10, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: I came across this post on Paul Butzi's blog. It gave me a bit of a chuckle. http://photomusings.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/more-adobe-nightmares/ and they say Dante was inventive in his description of Hell. I was miffed the other day when Adobe decided that, because I had the audacity to surf to their site with Firefox, I had to install a Reader Installer plug-in before I could install Reader. But the 17 disk swaps kinda takes the cake. I'm (mostly) pro-Adobe; I'm happy with Lightroom, and with Elements. But I do get pissed off when, every time I open a .PDF file, I end up with a little taskbar notifier telling me there is an update available. I've tried to turn it off a couple of different ways, but it comes back. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
I personally believe: 1) A society has the responsibility to look out for the safety, health, and education of all it's citizens. 2) To that end, every individual is taxed to provide that, for the greater good of all. 3) Deaths of children left in cars is tragic in every case. 4) Statistically, and number-wise, there are far greater issues that deserve our attention, causing far greater loss of human life, than this one. 5) Would it hurt me to pay extra for cars with sensors? No, I doubt I'd notice, and would not complain about doing so, but I think this issue is a molehill compared to some mountains. Tom C. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:49 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 01:05:54PM +0200, eckinator wrote: 2010/5/31 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: I believe that hospitals call it triage. field hospitals, yes. the only war this issue is possibly facing is a flame war. doug, can you implement post/thread triage on the list? Actually, the thread is doing surprisingly well. Apart from a few unfortunate uses of terms like idiot or bullshit, the discussion has mostly been conducted using mostly well-reasoned arguments. That said, this is one of those issues (like religion, or politics) where it is extremely unlikely that anyone will change their opinion. As such, I feel it is probably time to let the thread fade away so we can get back to our discussions of art (or Art) and aperture s(t)imulators. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On 5/31/2010 6:39 AM, paul stenquist wrote:
On May 30, 2010, at 11:56 PM, Ken Waller wrote:
Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
- Original Message - From: paul stenquistpnstenqu...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On May 30, 2010, at 11:19 PM, Ken Waller wrote:
Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
- Original Message - From: paul stenquistpnstenqu...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
On May 30, 2010, at 7:47 AM, John Sessoms wrote:
Not always forgetfulness - sometimes just plain ignorance.
The hyperthermia deaths are sometimes the result of ignorance. But the majority
are inadvertently caused by otherwise responsible parents.
Ahem Paul I would change that to 'irresponsible parents'. Having children
is among other things, a responsibiity.
You could change that, but the facts wouldn't support you. Most of those who
have inadvertently forgotten an infant have otherwise very clean records.
Distraction and the stresses of daily life can cause even the best of men and
women to fail from time to time. The record supports that. Yes, it seems like
its impossible to forget one's child, but apparently it's not.
I didn't say they weren't fine upstanding members of the community, but that
they were unwilling to be responsible for their actions, they left their child
in the car, I didn't.
Everyone makes mistakes, it how we deal with them that is the issue here.
I don't know of anyone who has caused the death of their child or someone
else's and has been unwilling to take responsibility for the outcome. Some have
even been incarcerated, although not many. The Post article that preceded mine
deals with that in depth. It's independent safety advocates who have been
pushing for a warning device. As I said, I take no position on the issue.
Paul
Independent advocates have been pushing for everything, it doesn't
matter how few people are affected, it doesn't matter that those
involved could have taken precautions on their own, it doesn't matter
the total cost, because; It's for the children. Say those four,(well
five actually), magic words, then say the second magic formula; It
only costs x number of dollars, for each y! (where x is some
sufficiently small amount, and y is some sufficently large group of
things, car, person, whatever), and you get a mandate. So what if x is
underestamated, as it usually is, it's still small. Small that is until
you all the damn xs up and the cost to each person becomes substantial.
But it's done deal because It's for the Children!
In this specific case, instead of spending the money on something that
might be of utility to them car buyers pay for another non essential on
an already over complicated car. Which by the way probably costs too
much for most of the people who might actually forget their children in
a car. They have used cars, in which most of the extr crap stopped
working years ago.
Paul
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Re: Kids are Dying in Cars
Den 31. mai 2010 kl. 06.11 skrev Rob Studdert: On 31/05/2010, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote: These kids aren't that old. It was a late model car with the brake/shift interlock installed. Kids are resourceful! Again I wonder how much of the fault is the parents? My little guy loves to sit in the front seat playing driver, but he's got absolutely no idea that the interlock is there let alone how it works and until he learns to drive I'm not going to tell him. I managed to drive my parents cars over our neighbors lawn when I was 5. That taught them to lock the car and take the keys :-) But there is another side of this discussion and that is the question whether parents would get less careful because of the added security. Will you trust the sensors in your car and leave the child unattended more often if you instal a sensor warning about temperature? Then you increase other risks. I think that may be the case and in Norway they recently published a report stating that more pedestrian were hit by cars at the zebra crossings. It turns out that they think they are safe because they use the crossing and the rules say that the cars have to stop, but they don´t think about the braking distance of the cars. They don´t even look for the cars, just walk. DagT -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Great frauds from tiny increments grow. The fact that you, or for that
matter, I personally wouldn't notice the relatively small increase in
the cost of an automobile. Howmany gigantic boondoggles do we put up
with because it doesn't cost much money us individually?
On 5/31/2010 1:05 PM, Tom C wrote:
I personally believe:
1) A society has the responsibility to look out for the safety,
health, and education of all it's citizens.
2) To that end, every individual is taxed to provide that, for the
greater good of all.
3) Deaths of children left in cars is tragic in every case.
4) Statistically, and number-wise, there are far greater issues that
deserve our attention, causing far greater loss of human life, than
this one.
5) Would it hurt me to pay extra for cars with sensors? No, I doubt
I'd notice, and would not complain about doing so, but I think this
issue is a molehill compared to some mountains.
Tom C.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:49 PM, John Francisjo...@panix.com wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 01:05:54PM +0200, eckinator wrote:
2010/5/31 Larry Colenl...@red4est.com:
I believe that hospitals call it triage.
field hospitals, yes. the only war this issue is possibly facing is a
flame war. doug, can you implement post/thread triage on the list?
Actually, the thread is doing surprisingly well. Apart from a few
unfortunate uses of terms like idiot or bullshit, the discussion
has mostly been conducted using mostly well-reasoned arguments.
That said, this is one of those issues (like religion, or politics)
where it is extremely unlikely that anyone will change their opinion.
As such, I feel it is probably time to let the thread fade away so
we can get back to our discussions of art (or Art) and aperture
s(t)imulators.
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Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
Don't get me started Peter... :-)
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 1:23 PM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
Great frauds from tiny increments grow. The fact that you, or for that
matter, I personally wouldn't notice the relatively small increase in the
cost of an automobile. Howmany gigantic boondoggles do we put up with
because it doesn't cost much money us individually?
On 5/31/2010 1:05 PM, Tom C wrote:
I personally believe:
1) A society has the responsibility to look out for the safety,
health, and education of all it's citizens.
2) To that end, every individual is taxed to provide that, for the
greater good of all.
3) Deaths of children left in cars is tragic in every case.
4) Statistically, and number-wise, there are far greater issues that
deserve our attention, causing far greater loss of human life, than
this one.
5) Would it hurt me to pay extra for cars with sensors? No, I doubt
I'd notice, and would not complain about doing so, but I think this
issue is a molehill compared to some mountains.
Tom C.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:49 PM, John Francisjo...@panix.com wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 01:05:54PM +0200, eckinator wrote:
2010/5/31 Larry Colenl...@red4est.com:
I believe that hospitals call it triage.
field hospitals, yes. the only war this issue is possibly facing is a
flame war. doug, can you implement post/thread triage on the list?
Actually, the thread is doing surprisingly well. Apart from a few
unfortunate uses of terms like idiot or bullshit, the discussion
has mostly been conducted using mostly well-reasoned arguments.
That said, this is one of those issues (like religion, or politics)
where it is extremely unlikely that anyone will change their opinion.
As such, I feel it is probably time to let the thread fade away so
we can get back to our discussions of art (or Art) and aperture
s(t)imulators.
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Re: OT: Kids are Dying in Cars
crysus vs crises how did the spell checker let me send that?
On 5/31/2010 1:00 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
On 5/31/2010 7:05 AM, eckinator wrote:
2010/5/31 Larry Colenl...@red4est.com:
I believe that hospitals call it triage.
field hospitals, yes. the only war this issue is possibly facing is a
flame war. doug, can you implement post/thread triage on the list?
Every hospitial engages in triage, under most circumstances it's not
as evident. During a crysus it becomes a lot more evident.
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Re: PESO - My first panorama
Looks perfect for me. Handheld? Toine On 31 May 2010 00:06, Tim Øsleby maritim...@gmail.com wrote: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/2010/05/panorama-movatnet-1.html Stitched in Elements Photomerge. That's obviously not the prefect tool for the job. -- MaritimTim http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
