[Phono-L] Berliner Records for Sale
Hello Everyone, Nick and I have decided to sell most of the 7 inch Berliner records we bought last month at auction. We have a total of 51 records in nice, clean playable condition and 5 records with a crack, chip or skip. We have now listened to each and every record using a modern, light tone arm and turntable to make sure they play clean from beginning to end with no skips. As with all of these records, they do have the typical background noise and surface marks. We have done the usual research online and have found that the price of these records can range anywhere from $5.00-$20.00 for a damaged record up to $80.00-$300.00 for an excellent playing record depending on the artist and/or content. There were even a few rare exceptions that sold over $1000.00. Our original plan was to put each record on Ebay and let them each get their fair market value. However, with so many records to list and the new higher Ebay and Paypal fees that are in place, we have decided to offer them here before putting them online. Since there is such a wide range of prices for the records, we would like to sell our undamaged, clean playing, tested records at the middle of the road price of $60.00 each plus actual shipping costs. Some of these records will probably fetch much more on Ebay, some maybe slightly less but in the end, we feel it is a fair base price per clean record. I am attaching a PDF list of all the records we have. We purchased this collection as one lot so it is probable that they were part of someone’s original library of records from back in the day. This list may be useful to anyone who is keeping track of this historical information. In this list, a notation is next to each title so you can see our impressions of the record as we listened to it play. “Clean” means that the record played all the way through without skipping. Your equipment may alter the sound of the record when compared with ours so please take this into consideration. We can send pictures and more info to anyone who is interested and will package the records extremely carefully for shipping. If you live in the Northeast, you are welcome to come by and pick them up for free. After my original post about us purchasing the records, I received many emails from list members who were interested in buying them before we had a chance to listen to them or make the decision to sell them. Therefore, this will be done on a first come, first serve basis. Mix and match as many clean titles as you would like for $60.00 a piece plus actual shipping. Feel free to make an offer one or all of the five damaged records. Any unsold records will go on Ebay at a later date. Thank you! Melissa P.S: Records that are not currently for sale are in Bold. #3420 “The Swiss Polka” has a small piece broken off of the edge of the record. It plays clean from the break to the end. We have the broken piece so that it may be repaired. #A630 has a very slight hairline crack and plays clean all the way through. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Final 7 inch record lot.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 92701 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20130927/6c331c3c/attachment.pdf ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Records
Hi, Right now we are planning on cleaning them up and enjoying them for awhile. I think we will end up selling a few of them at some point just because there are so many. I will let you know when and if we do decide to sell some. Thanks, Melissa From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Records Melissa,Are you selling any of the Berliners? From: zonophone2...@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:14:41 -0400 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Records hopefully you got some consolidated records too you can cruise ebay to find some prices but looks like a good find In a message dated 8/29/2013 9:13:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vinyl.visi...@live.com writes: Melissa,Only 9714 came up for me... how many actual Berliner records did you get? Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:51:21 -0700 From: riccib...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Records Hello Again, Nick and I also won 54 early 7 inch Berliner, Victor, Zonophone, and Improved etched records at the auction. We know that some of these can be valuable and know a little about them but would love an expert opinion on the collection. Most of the records are Berliner Gramophone records with the etched titles. About half of them are signed by the artist who sang the song or conducted the band. There are some really nice titles like Yankee Doodle and Blue Bells of Scotland. We also have several etched Zonophone records, about 10 Improved records a few Victor without the dog and one Victor with the dog. Here are a few pics. We are interested in anything you can tell us. Thanks again! Melissa http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09714.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09713.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09712.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09711.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09710.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09709.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09708.jpg.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Records
hopefully you got some consolidated records too you can cruise ebay to find some prices but looks like a good find In a message dated 8/29/2013 9:13:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vinyl.visi...@live.com writes: Melissa,Only 9714 came up for me... how many actual Berliner records did you get? Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:51:21 -0700 From: riccib...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Records Hello Again, Nick and I also won 54 early 7 inch Berliner, Victor, Zonophone, and Improved etched records at the auction. We know that some of these can be valuable and know a little about them but would love an expert opinion on the collection. Most of the records are Berliner Gramophone records with the etched titles. About half of them are signed by the artist who sang the song or conducted the band. There are some really nice titles like Yankee Doodle and Blue Bells of Scotland. We also have several etched Zonophone records, about 10 Improved records a few Victor without the dog and one Victor with the dog. Here are a few pics. We are interested in anything you can tell us. Thanks again! Melissa http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09714.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09713.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09712.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09711.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09710.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09709.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09708.jpg.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Records
Melissa,Are you selling any of the Berliners? From: zonophone2...@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:14:41 -0400 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Records hopefully you got some consolidated records too you can cruise ebay to find some prices but looks like a good find In a message dated 8/29/2013 9:13:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vinyl.visi...@live.com writes: Melissa,Only 9714 came up for me... how many actual Berliner records did you get? Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:51:21 -0700 From: riccib...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Records Hello Again, Nick and I also won 54 early 7 inch Berliner, Victor, Zonophone, and Improved etched records at the auction. We know that some of these can be valuable and know a little about them but would love an expert opinion on the collection. Most of the records are Berliner Gramophone records with the etched titles. About half of them are signed by the artist who sang the song or conducted the band. There are some really nice titles like Yankee Doodle and Blue Bells of Scotland. We also have several etched Zonophone records, about 10 Improved records a few Victor without the dog and one Victor with the dog. Here are a few pics. We are interested in anything you can tell us. Thanks again! Melissa http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09714.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09713.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09712.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09711.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09710.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09709.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09708.jpg.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Berliner Records
Hello Again, Nick and I also won 54 early 7 inch Berliner, Victor, Zonophone, and Improved etched records at the auction. We know that some of these can be valuable and know a little about them but would love an expert opinion on the collection. Most of the records are Berliner Gramophone records with the etched titles. About half of them are signed by the artist who sang the song or conducted the band. There are some really nice titles like Yankee Doodle and Blue Bells of Scotland. We also have several etched Zonophone records, about 10 Improved records a few Victor without the dog and one Victor with the dog. Here are a few pics. We are interested in anything you can tell us. Thanks again! Melissa http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09714.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09713.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09712.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09711.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09710.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09709.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Records/DSC09708.jpg.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
He sent me a cheque for $1 drawn on the Bank of the Wabash Far Away. It bounced, I wrote to him about it, and we have arranged for him to Meet Me Tonight in Dreamland. pc In a message dated 2/25/2013 7:09:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rkeu...@gmail.com writes: Sorry Dave, the guy in Nigeria is sending all his extra money to me. I already sent him $2000 for extra expenseshe-he-he ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
That same guy sent me the $10,000 check too and guess what? He offered to give me $2,000 as a commission, if I sent his nephew in Mexico a wire transfer for $8,000... Since I found another Berliner on eBay for $500, I can't wait to send it to him, I'm heading out now to get it done... From: rpm...@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 06:49:55 -0500 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 He sent me a cheque for $1 drawn on the Bank of the Wabash Far Away. It bounced, I wrote to him about it, and we have arranged for him to Meet Me Tonight in Dreamland. pc In a message dated 2/25/2013 7:09:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rkeu...@gmail.com writes: Sorry Dave, the guy in Nigeria is sending all his extra money to me. I already sent him $2000 for extra expenseshe-he-he ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
I have bought it five times already and he still has not sent it to me... I am going to have to stop this. Dave From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, February 24, 2013 10:29:42 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 That same guy has offered to sell this Berliner many times before... could it be a SCAM??? (yes, it could/is) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:19:19 -0800 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 Here's another great eBay deal, get it before it is gone! Berliner trademark phonograph for only $350.00 Buy It Now! Ebay item 121072345171. Of course it is located in Lithuania, and also he only has 1 feedback rating John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
I got it this time Dave, and just to make sure I get it I am sailing to Nigeria to meet him at his winter home. John Robles Sent from my iDon'tknow On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:43 PM, David Dazer dda...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I have bought it five times already and he still has not sent it to me... I am going to have to stop this. Dave From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, February 24, 2013 10:29:42 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 That same guy has offered to sell this Berliner many times before... could it be a SCAM??? (yes, it could/is) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:19:19 -0800 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 Here's another great eBay deal, get it before it is gone! Berliner trademark phonograph for only $350.00 Buy It Now! Ebay item 121072345171. Of course it is located in Lithuania, and also he only has 1 feedback rating John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
I have to go to Nigeria too. Seems like a guy with the same name there died and left a bunch of unclaimed money. I am a nice guy, so I am going to help them out... Dave From: John9ten john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 4:13:17 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 I got it this time Dave, and just to make sure I get it I am sailing to Nigeria to meet him at his winter home. John Robles Sent from my iDon'tknow On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:43 PM, David Dazer dda...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I have bought it five times already and he still has not sent it to me... I am going to have to stop this. Dave From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, February 24, 2013 10:29:42 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 That same guy has offered to sell this Berliner many times before... could it be a SCAM??? (yes, it could/is) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:19:19 -0800 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 Here's another great eBay deal, get it before it is gone! Berliner trademark phonograph for only $350.00 Buy It Now! Ebay item 121072345171. Of course it is located in Lithuania, and also he only has 1 feedback rating John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
Sorry Dave, the guy in Nigeria is sending all his extra money to me. I already sent him $2000 for extra expenseshe-he-he Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
Here's another great eBay deal, get it before it is gone! Berliner trademark phonograph for only $350.00 Buy It Now! Ebay item 121072345171. Of course it is located in Lithuania, and also he only has 1 feedback rating John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
That same guy has offered to sell this Berliner many times before... could it be a SCAM??? (yes, it could/is) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:19:19 -0800 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 Here's another great eBay deal, get it before it is gone! Berliner trademark phonograph for only $350.00 Buy It Now! Ebay item 121072345171. Of course it is located in Lithuania, and also he only has 1 feedback rating John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00
Dang... it's already sold From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:23:57 -0500 That same guy has offered to sell this Berliner many times before... could it be a SCAM??? (yes, it could/is) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:19:19 -0800 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Gramophone only $350.00 Here's another great eBay deal, get it before it is gone! Berliner trademark phonograph for only $350.00 Buy It Now! Ebay item 121072345171. Of course it is located in Lithuania, and also he only has 1 feedback rating John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner crank???
Curt, This is a crank for a VV IV or a VV VI, like it says in the description. It is a tough crank to find and the price isn't so bad. I wonder about her other auctions. Harvey Kravitz From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 8:10 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner crank??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-EARLY-ORIGINAL-VICTOR-VICTROLA-VV-IV-OR-VV-VI-CRANK-/300770746597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item46075560e5 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner crank???
Hi Harvey,I guess I have never seen one of these before. It appeared to be a Berliner because of the straight arm and looked about the right dimensions (except for the slot, of course). Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:29:43 -0700 From: harveykrav...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner crank??? Curt, This is a crank for a VV IV or a VV VI, like it says in the description. It is a tough crank to find and the price isn't so bad. I wonder about her other auctions. Harvey Kravitz From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 8:10 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner crank??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-EARLY-ORIGINAL-VICTOR-VICTROLA-VV-IV-OR-VV-VI-CRANK-/300770746597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item46075560e5 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Berliner crank???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-EARLY-ORIGINAL-VICTOR-VICTROLA-VV-IV-OR-VV-VI-CRANK-/300770746597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item46075560e5 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner crank???
Looks like an early VV-IV crank. The shaft is long and it's threaded not slotted. Other parts from an early IV are in his listing as well. -Scott Corbett -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 8:10 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner crank??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-EARLY-ORIGINAL-VICTOR-VICTROLA-VV-IV-OR-VV-VI-C RANK-/300770746597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item46075560e5 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
Excellent article, thanks so much. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:27:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hi Steve and all, Here is a great source for information. This is where we found information on our little 5. 1889-1892 is indeed the dawn of disc records. -Scott Denise Corbett Below is from the website: http://www.archeophone.org/Berliner5inch/ The earliest disc records ever released : The five inch Berliner Gramophone records online catalogue It is commonly said that the first Berliner Gramophone record to be offered on the market was pressed in the USA in October 1894. It was a seven inch record. But in fact Emile Berliner (1851-1929), inventor of the gramophone record, had made and sold records long before that date. It is a German toy maker (Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen) who made and marketed the very first Berliner Gramophone which was a toy with a cardboard horn, hand operated with a crank, but with no spring or motor. This device put on the market from 1889 to 1892, rotated five inch records (12,5 cm) at 100-150 revolutions per minute. These records are not made of shellac like records made later, but of gutta-percha : an inelastic compressed and vulcanized natural latex or rubber isolated from the sap of several species of tropical tree, but mainly from Palaquium gutta. They are pressed from metallic matrixes. Both records and machines bear the mention E. Berliner Grammophon D.R.P. [Deutsches Reichspatent] 45048. The label on the reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and the mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. They are indeed the oldest records in the world. The voice heard of most of these records, singing or talking with no instrumental accompaniment, is Emile Berliner's own voice. This is commonly admitted and it is indeed a voice - always the same on different records - with an audible German accent. The above list represents the earliest disc record catalogue in the world. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:18 PM To: Phono-l Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Thanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old yours is? I really appreciated the information. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end up! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
So these records were pressed here in the states and shipped directly to Germany to Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen. What I would like to know is how Berliner and Kämmer Reinhardt first established this relatinship? Did Berliner know the owners of the German company prior to coming to America through a prior business connection? -Original Message- From: Scott and Denise Corbett sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 11:31 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hi Steve and all, Here is a great source for information. This is where we found information on our little 5. 1889-1892 is indeed the awn of disc records. -Scott Denise Corbett elow is from the website: http://www.archeophone.org/Berliner5inch/ The earliest disc records ver released : he five inch Berliner Gramophone records nline catalogue It is commonly said that the first Berliner Gramophone record to be offered n the market was pressed in the USA in October 1894. It was a seven inch ecord. But in fact Emile Berliner (1851-1929), inventor of the gramophone ecord, had made and sold records long before that date. It is a German toy aker (Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen) who made and marketed he very first Berliner Gramophone which was a toy with a cardboard horn, and operated with a crank, but with no spring or motor. This device put on the market from 1889 to 1892, rotated five inch records 12,5 cm) at 100-150 revolutions per minute. These records are not made of hellac like records made later, but of gutta-percha : an inelastic ompressed and vulcanized natural latex or rubber isolated from the sap of everal species of tropical tree, but mainly from Palaquium gutta. They are ressed from metallic matrixes. Both records and machines bear the mention E. Berliner Grammophon D.R.P. [Deutsches Reichspatent] 45048. The label on he reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and he mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. They are ndeed the oldest records in the world. The voice heard of most of these ecords, singing or talking with no instrumental accompaniment, is Emile erliner's own voice. This is commonly admitted and it is indeed a voice - lways the same on different records - with an audible German accent. The bove list represents the earliest disc record catalogue in the world. Original Message- rom: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On ehalf Of Steven Medved ent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:18 PM o: Phono-l ubject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record hanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old ours is? I really appreciated the information. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end p! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] n Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
No, no - - the 5 Berliners were pressed in Germany by two firms. Stephan Puille has had a couple of excellent articles published in The Sound Box that cover this period in detail. George P. -Original Message- From: Rick Mazur phonofo...@aol.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 4:48 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record So these records were pressed here in the states and shipped directly to Germany to Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen. What I would like to know is how Berliner and Kämmer Reinhardt first established this relatinship? Did Berliner know the owners of the German company prior to coming to America through a prior business connection? -Original Message- From: Scott and Denise Corbett sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 11:31 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hi Steve and all, Here is a great source for information. This is where we found information on our little 5. 1889-1892 is indeed the awn of disc records. -Scott Denise Corbett elow is from the website: http://www.archeophone.org/Berliner5inch/ The earliest disc records ver released : he five inch Berliner Gramophone records nline catalogue It is commonly said that the first Berliner Gramophone record to be offered n the market was pressed in the USA in October 1894. It was a seven inch ecord. But in fact Emile Berliner (1851-1929), inventor of the gramophone ecord, had made and sold records long before that date. It is a German toy aker (Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen) who made and marketed he very first Berliner Gramophone which was a toy with a cardboard horn, and operated with a crank, but with no spring or motor. This device put on the market from 1889 to 1892, rotated five inch records 12,5 cm) at 100-150 revolutions per minute. These records are not made of hellac like records made later, but of gutta-percha : an inelastic ompressed and vulcanized natural latex or rubber isolated from the sap of everal species of tropical tree, but mainly from Palaquium gutta. They are ressed from metallic matrixes. Both records and machines bear the mention E. Berliner Grammophon D.R.P. [Deutsches Reichspatent] 45048. The label on he reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and he mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. They are ndeed the oldest records in the world. The voice heard of most of these ecords, singing or talking with no instrumental accompaniment, is Emile erliner's own voice. This is commonly admitted and it is indeed a voice - lways the same on different records - with an audible German accent. The bove list represents the earliest disc record catalogue in the world. Original Message- rom: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On ehalf Of Steven Medved ent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:18 PM o: Phono-l ubject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record hanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old ours is? I really appreciated the information. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end p! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] n Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
Thanks. I asked the question because Scott stated in his emails that The label on the reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and he mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. So if these records were printed in germany they would still contain the US patent? -Original Message- From: gpaul2000 gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:06 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record No, no - - the 5 Berliners were pressed in Germany by two firms. Stephan uille has had a couple of excellent articles published in The Sound Box that over this period in detail. eorge P. -Original Message- rom: Rick Mazur phonofo...@aol.com o: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org ent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 4:48 am ubject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record So these records were pressed here in the states and shipped directly to Germany to Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen. What I would like to know is ow Berliner and Kämmer Reinhardt first established this relatinship? Did erliner know the owners of the German company prior to coming to America hrough a prior business connection? -Original Message- rom: Scott and Denise Corbett sdcorb...@earthlink.net o: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org ent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 11:31 pm ubject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record i Steve and all, ere is a great source for information. his is where we found information on our little 5. 1889-1892 is indeed the wn of disc records. Scott Denise Corbett elow is from the website: http://www.archeophone.org/Berliner5inch/ he earliest disc records er released : e five inch Berliner Gramophone records line catalogue t is commonly said that the first Berliner Gramophone record to be offered the market was pressed in the USA in October 1894. It was a seven inch cord. But in fact Emile Berliner (1851-1929), inventor of the gramophone cord, had made and sold records long before that date. It is a German toy ker (Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen) who made and marketed e very first Berliner Gramophone which was a toy with a cardboard horn, nd operated with a crank, but with no spring or motor. his device put on the market from 1889 to 1892, rotated five inch records 2,5 cm) at 100-150 revolutions per minute. These records are not made of ellac like records made later, but of gutta-percha : an inelastic mpressed and vulcanized natural latex or rubber isolated from the sap of veral species of tropical tree, but mainly from Palaquium gutta. They are essed from metallic matrixes. Both records and machines bear the mention . Berliner Grammophon D.R.P. [Deutsches Reichspatent] 45048. The label on e reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and e mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. They are deed the oldest records in the world. The voice heard of most of these cords, singing or talking with no instrumental accompaniment, is Emile rliner's own voice. This is commonly admitted and it is indeed a voice - ways the same on different records - with an audible German accent. The ove list represents the earliest disc record catalogue in the world. Original Message- om: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On half Of Steven Medved nt: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:18 PM : Phono-l bject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record hanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old urs is? I really appreciated the information. teve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end ! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
Yes. The 5 Berliners were manufactured under license in Germany and protected under those patents. By the way, not all 5 Berliners carry lyrics on a paper label on the reverse. I've seen a number of them with no paper label and no evidence of one ever having been there. George P. -Original Message- From: Rick Mazur phonofo...@aol.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:34 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Thanks. I asked the question because Scott stated in his emails that The label on the reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and he mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. So if these records were printed in germany they would still contain the US patent? -Original Message- From: gpaul2000 gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:06 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record No, no - - the 5 Berliners were pressed in Germany by two firms. Stephan uille has had a couple of excellent articles published in The Sound Box that over this period in detail. eorge P. -Original Message- rom: Rick Mazur phonofo...@aol.com o: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org ent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 4:48 am ubject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record So these records were pressed here in the states and shipped directly to Germany to Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen. What I would like to know is ow Berliner and Kämmer Reinhardt first established this relatinship? Did erliner know the owners of the German company prior to coming to America hrough a prior business connection? -Original Message- rom: Scott and Denise Corbett sdcorb...@earthlink.net o: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org ent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 11:31 pm ubject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record i Steve and all, ere is a great source for information. his is where we found information on our little 5. 1889-1892 is indeed the wn of disc records. Scott Denise Corbett elow is from the website: http://www.archeophone.org/Berliner5inch/ he earliest disc records er released : e five inch Berliner Gramophone records line catalogue t is commonly said that the first Berliner Gramophone record to be offered the market was pressed in the USA in October 1894. It was a seven inch cord. But in fact Emile Berliner (1851-1929), inventor of the gramophone cord, had made and sold records long before that date. It is a German toy ker (Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen) who made and marketed e very first Berliner Gramophone which was a toy with a cardboard horn, nd operated with a crank, but with no spring or motor. his device put on the market from 1889 to 1892, rotated five inch records 2,5 cm) at 100-150 revolutions per minute. These records are not made of ellac like records made later, but of gutta-percha : an inelastic mpressed and vulcanized natural latex or rubber isolated from the sap of veral species of tropical tree, but mainly from Palaquium gutta. They are essed from metallic matrixes. Both records and machines bear the mention . Berliner Grammophon D.R.P. [Deutsches Reichspatent] 45048. The label on e reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and e mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. They are deed the oldest records in the world. The voice heard of most of these cords, singing or talking with no instrumental accompaniment, is Emile rliner's own voice. This is commonly admitted and it is indeed a voice - ways the same on different records - with an audible German accent. The ove list represents the earliest disc record catalogue in the world. Original Message- om: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On half Of Steven Medved nt: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:18 PM : Phono-l bject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record hanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old urs is? I really appreciated the information. teve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end ! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
The Nov 1887/May 1888 dates on the reverse side refer to Emile Berliner's British patent dates. This 5 disc was recorded and pressed in Germany for the British market, under protection of British patents. I will refer to this in detail in my upcoming articles in The Sound Box. Stephan -Original Message- From: Rick Mazur phonofo...@aol.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:34 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Thanks. I asked the question because Scott stated in his emails that The label on the reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and he mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. So if these records were printed in germany they would still contain the US patent? -Original Message- From: gpaul2000 gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:06 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record No, no - - the 5 Berliners were pressed in Germany by two firms. Stephan uille has had a couple of excellent articles published in The Sound Box that over this period in detail. eorge P. -Original Message- rom: Rick Mazur phonofo...@aol.com o: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org ent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 4:48 am ubject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record So these records were pressed here in the states and shipped directly to Germany to K?mmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen. What I would like to know is ow Berliner and K?mmer Reinhardt first established this relatinship? Did erliner know the owners of the German company prior to coming to America hrough a prior business connection? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
Thanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old yours is? I really appreciated the information. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end up! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
Hi Steve and all, Here is a great source for information. This is where we found information on our little 5. 1889-1892 is indeed the dawn of disc records. -Scott Denise Corbett Below is from the website: http://www.archeophone.org/Berliner5inch/ The earliest disc records ever released : The five inch Berliner Gramophone records online catalogue It is commonly said that the first Berliner Gramophone record to be offered on the market was pressed in the USA in October 1894. It was a seven inch record. But in fact Emile Berliner (1851-1929), inventor of the gramophone record, had made and sold records long before that date. It is a German toy maker (Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen) who made and marketed the very first Berliner Gramophone which was a toy with a cardboard horn, hand operated with a crank, but with no spring or motor. This device put on the market from 1889 to 1892, rotated five inch records (12,5 cm) at 100-150 revolutions per minute. These records are not made of shellac like records made later, but of gutta-percha : an inelastic compressed and vulcanized natural latex or rubber isolated from the sap of several species of tropical tree, but mainly from Palaquium gutta. They are pressed from metallic matrixes. Both records and machines bear the mention E. Berliner Grammophon D.R.P. [Deutsches Reichspatent] 45048. The label on the reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and the mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. They are indeed the oldest records in the world. The voice heard of most of these records, singing or talking with no instrumental accompaniment, is Emile Berliner's own voice. This is commonly admitted and it is indeed a voice - always the same on different records - with an audible German accent. The above list represents the earliest disc record catalogue in the world. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:18 PM To: Phono-l Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Thanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old yours is? I really appreciated the information. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end up! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Berliner record
Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end up! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Berliner discography
Paul Charosh is compiling a new Berliner discography, and he would appreciate any first-hand inspections of original Berliner discs, even if it may be copies he's already looked at. I've agreed to help spread the word for him, so if you have any Berliner discs in your holdings, you may email him at sandbar...@aol.com or reply to me, and I'll pass them along, whatever is easier for you. It goes to press in a few weeks, so now is a great chance to get involved in something. -Ryan Barna facebook.com/phonostalgia ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner discography
Sorry if I'm being a little thick this morning, but what specifically does Paul seek about each record? Sent from my iPhone -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:22 AM, Ryan Barna ryansrecor...@hotmail.com wrote: Paul Charosh is compiling a new Berliner discography, and he would appreciate any first-hand inspections of original Berliner discs, even if it may be copies he's already looked at. I've agreed to help spread the word for him, so if you have any Berliner discs in your holdings, you may email him at sandbar...@aol.com or reply to me, and I'll pass them along, whatever is easier for you. It goes to press in a few weeks, so now is a great chance to get involved in something. -Ryan Barna facebook.com/phonostalgia ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
Can anyone provide the correct dimensions, particularly the lengh for the mainspring on a Berliner trademark model? My machine has a shortened mainspring. Mike Tucker From john9...@pacbell.net Wed Nov 26 07:05:43 2008 From: john9...@pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Wed Nov 26 07:05:54 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Oops! Message-ID: 911042.72339...@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com Hi Loran I accidentally sent an email with pics of the Edison key attached to the group, when it was meant for one of the people that wrote me about it. I thought I was responding to them and I responded to the group instead. You can delete that email -?I got a message that it needed to be approved by you before it would be posted. Thanks John Robles P.S. I know this is going to the group but I don't have your email address handy at the moment! From jeff...@prevea.com Wed Nov 26 07:04:13 2008 From: jeff...@prevea.com (Jeffry Young, D.O.) Date: Wed Nov 26 07:16:27 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Wish List for Christmas! In-Reply-To: 1a0fd922281d4b69bd3da8184ef35...@ginabhw374k2jd References: 2008112524.37e21c1...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com005b01c94f41$c46fce60$4d4f6b...@net 1a0fd922281d4b69bd3da8184ef35...@ginabhw374k2jd Message-ID: 6c7ea97ca5292848b80f204f38a737520eda0...@mercury.prevea.com Sure would like a Zonophone Concert-V long throat reproducer in my stocking for Christmas! Your price! Reply off list to: jeff...@prevea.com Thanks, Jeff Wisconsin From rkolba0...@aol.com Wed Nov 26 10:00:27 2008 From: rkolba0...@aol.com (rkolba0...@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 26 10:05:48 2008 Subject: Fwd: [Phono-L] Items For Sale Message-ID: cf3.4809f36c.365ee...@aol.com Please respond. Thanks. From: rkolba0...@aol.com Reply-to: phono-l@oldcrank.org To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: 11/25/2008 5:35:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Subj: Re: [Phono-L] Items For Sale Hi Shawn. I'm interested in the Hexaphone locks. Please let me know how we can finalize my purchase. Thanks. Bob Kolba rkolba0...@aol.com_ (mailto:rkolba0...@aol.com) In a message dated 11/25/2008 4:50:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ban...@charter.net writes: Here are some excellent parts that I have available to get those machines ready to complete before Christmas!! Pictures available on request. First one that replies sold gets it! Please reply with commits and questions off-list. Shawn O'Rourke Early brass bell AH front mount horn in excellent condition, original paint $200.00 Victor 2/3/4/M/MS/P cast turntable. Super condition - $90.00 Original Edison 45 degree elbow. Nice nickel $35.00 Excellent Columbia Eagle reproducer in original box, glass diaphragm, super jewel. Works on an A, AT, N, Thornward, Eagle, and others $200.00 Edison model C reproducer. Super nickel, please well, excellent jewel: $90.00 Edison model C reproducer top housing: Hinge block broken off: $15.00 Columbia 10 cone horn. Excellent original, with very nice paint and gold stripe. $175.00 Original Edison cranks - A couple of rare ones! Oak battery box - Small, but an elongated 6 volt sits in it just fine. Great for machine or fan $40.00 Original Edison sign board paper - correct for early coin-op machine, heavy cardboard with calligraphy on song title $100.00 New Century Reproducer - yes, the rare one! Super nice. Original paper insert $1100.00 Triumph A mandrel and upper pulley. Decent condition, a couple small dents - CHEAP-$30.00 Original Berliner American closed face long throat reproducer. As nice as you'll ever find. When have you ever seen one of these lose - NEVER: $1500.00 Early Coin-op tokens 40 nickels, 7 pennies - Most say for amusement, one for music box $15.00 New Old Stock cabinet locks with keys - similar or exactly like used on Columbia, Edison, Hexaphone coin-ops. 2 sizes $25.00 each ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir =http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom0001) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0002) From lo...@oldcrank.com Wed Nov 26 17:42:42 2008 From: lo...@oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Wed Nov 26 17:42:52 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Happy Thanksgiving Message-ID: 43288e5e-2047-4c52-9f11-e0ffe3a7e...@oldcrank.com Wishing everyone here a safe and happy Thanksgiving weekend! Regards, Loran From mobilityscoot...@xtra.co.nz Wed Nov 26 19:49:30 2008 From: mobilityscoot...@xtra.co.nz (Mobility Scooters)
[Phono-L] Berliner
Hi John My mortgage has also just shot up, taking my blood pressure up in sympathy.. There are trademarks and there are trademarks. Companie Francaise (i.e. French not Canadian) made some different varieties that look similar but are not all necessarily trademarks. Trademark was the model 5 with Clark Johnson soundbox. There is also the model 3 that looks very similar except for the motor casing at the rear that is not rounded like the trademark but begins parallel and kinks into a semi-circular curve - value is much less. CF also made the style 5 and 4 in Mahogany. Trademarks have a horizontal speed adjuster and 3's a vertical one. (style 4 is a larger case that encloses the motor which is fixed diagonally with the winder in a corner. There is an additional Trademark looking CF machine with a larger than standard spring housing that occasionally turns up. In its purest form the trademark should look the same as the machine in the painting. Later style 5's had a cannon style brake rather than the side brake (can it still be called a trademark with a different brake setup? Or with a Concert or Exibition! soundbox???) If it helps, send a photo offline regards Rob On 6/16/08, john robles john9ten at pacbell.net wrote: It has been suggested that this could be a Canadian model, and thus worth a little less on the American market. It has a decal that says 'Cie Francaise du Gramophone, Paris No 2137'. Norman Bruderhofer phono-l at cylinder.de wrote: Hey John, I remember seeing a trademark at the Wayne show about four years ago. It was very beautiful but had been restored with a significant percentage of repro parts. The price was $1500 for that one. So, $3500 can be quite reasonable for a fully original trademark. Good luck! Norman At 04:34 15.06.2008, you wrote: Hi there This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. This was the issue, I know that foreign made machines don't seem to do as well with American buyers. I will guage the screw threads to make sure they are not metric. I have had a repro of this type myself, and I know what to look for on that count. The horn is an obvious original horn, though perhaps not original to this model. The horn is nickel plated, with a bell joined to the body with a seam. The bell is a bit bent but pretty nice. The body has obvious spots when plating is mottled a bit. The hold down looks as if it is the tye with the hole all the way through, as it should be. I just want to be sure this machine is not a marriage of old and new. The motor housing looks as it should. The crank is not the flat bar type, it is more like an early Victor slip on crank with the slight offset in the winding arm. I will let you guys know what happens. Thanks! John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner Trademark
I think the essence of a board like this is to share our knowledge and help each other as in the end it keeps the flame and interest of collecting for everyone alive. so if someone finds something interesting and is unsure, why not help. As a young collector about 10 years ago I saw an interesting phonograph at an antiques market, that I had no idea what it was. It also looked as if someone possibly had modified a cake tin - so basically I was unsure, so not wanting to waste around 1000 hard earned dollars, I phoned a more experienced collector who I knew for advice and described the machine to him. Na, sounds like a piece of crap was his advice. Apparently he dropped everything he was doing and raced a few hundred miles down to the show OK, so I learned he was not the helpful type! :-) On 6/16/08, john robles john9ten at pacbell.net wrote: Now THIS is what Bob's email should have said. I get this, and it is good advice without making me feel like a whipped puppy as his email did. wilenzick at bellsouth.net wrote: Bob's e-mail response may have been a bit crude, but his advice was right-on. Buying a Berliner for resale to earn money can be a big problem, unless you are very careful and experienced with them. These machines are generally purchased as interesting historical artifacts, rather than fine playing phonos. They are not rare, and usually sell in the range of 2-4K, sometimes more depending on originality, condition, country of origin, etc. Most have repro parts and therefore not desirable to many serious collectors. They usually sit on the shelf and look cute with a nipper looking into the horn. I doubt collectors play them very often as records are hard to fine, expensive, and usually quite worn. If you want to resell one, it would be best to get an original from a little old ladies attic :) As Bob said, it may be best to pass on this one unless it's is a very good deal. In that case, keep it on your shelf. Just my opinion. Ray ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
And if you want to be really pedantic, a TRUE Trade Mark must have the English Gramophone Co. Ltd. label on it, since Barraud used one of those in the painting His Masters Voice. - Original Message - From: Robert Plavzic plav...@gmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Hi John My mortgage has also just shot up, taking my blood pressure up in sympathy.. There are trademarks and there are trademarks. Companie Francaise (i.e. French not Canadian) made some different varieties that look similar but are not all necessarily trademarks. Trademark was the model 5 with Clark Johnson soundbox. There is also the model 3 that looks very similar except for the motor casing at the rear that is not rounded like the trademark but begins parallel and kinks into a semi-circular curve - value is much less. CF also made the style 5 and 4 in Mahogany. Trademarks have a horizontal speed adjuster and 3's a vertical one. (style 4 is a larger case that encloses the motor which is fixed diagonally with the winder in a corner. There is an additional Trademark looking CF machine with a larger than standard spring housing that occasionally turns up. In its purest form the trademark should look the same as the machine in the painting. Later style 5's had a cannon style brake rather than the side brake (can it still be called a trademark with a different brake setup? Or with a Concert or Exibition! soundbox???) If it helps, send a photo offline regards Rob On 6/16/08, john robles john9ten at pacbell.net wrote: It has been suggested that this could be a Canadian model, and thus worth a little less on the American market. It has a decal that says 'Cie Francaise du Gramophone, Paris No 2137'. Norman Bruderhofer phono-l at cylinder.de wrote: Hey John, I remember seeing a trademark at the Wayne show about four years ago. It was very beautiful but had been restored with a significant percentage of repro parts. The price was $1500 for that one. So, $3500 can be quite reasonable for a fully original trademark. Good luck! Norman At 04:34 15.06.2008, you wrote: Hi there This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. This was the issue, I know that foreign made machines don't seem to do as well with American buyers. I will guage the screw threads to make sure they are not metric. I have had a repro of this type myself, and I know what to look for on that count. The horn is an obvious original horn, though perhaps not original to this model. The horn is nickel plated, with a bell joined to the body with a seam. The bell is a bit bent but pretty nice. The body has obvious spots when plating is mottled a bit. The hold down looks as if it is the tye with the hole all the way through, as it should be. I just want to be sure this machine is not a marriage of old and new. The motor housing looks as it should. The crank is not the flat bar type, it is more like an early Victor slip on crank with the slight offset in the winding arm. I will let you guys know what happens. Thanks! John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
Very true. Well, I haven't heard from the seller now for three days, so I think he found another buyer. Here are pics. http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/john9ten/Berliner/ George Glastris glastris at comcast.net wrote: And if you want to be really pedantic, a TRUE Trade Mark must have the English Gramophone Co. Ltd. label on it, since Barraud used one of those in the painting His Masters Voice. - Original Message - From: Robert Plavzic To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Hi John My mortgage has also just shot up, taking my blood pressure up in sympathy.. There are trademarks and there are trademarks. Companie Francaise (i.e. French not Canadian) made some different varieties that look similar but are not all necessarily trademarks. Trademark was the model 5 with Clark Johnson soundbox. There is also the model 3 that looks very similar except for the motor casing at the rear that is not rounded like the trademark but begins parallel and kinks into a semi-circular curve - value is much less. CF also made the style 5 and 4 in Mahogany. Trademarks have a horizontal speed adjuster and 3's a vertical one. (style 4 is a larger case that encloses the motor which is fixed diagonally with the winder in a corner. There is an additional Trademark looking CF machine with a larger than standard spring housing that occasionally turns up. In its purest form the trademark should look the same as the machine in the painting. Later style 5's had a cannon style brake rather than the side brake (can it still be called a trademark with a different brake setup? Or with a Concert or Exibition! soundbox???) If it helps, send a photo offline regards Rob On 6/16/08, john robles wrote: It has been suggested that this could be a Canadian model, and thus worth a little less on the American market. It has a decal that says 'Cie Francaise du Gramophone, Paris No 2137'. Norman Bruderhofer wrote: Hey John, I remember seeing a trademark at the Wayne show about four years ago. It was very beautiful but had been restored with a significant percentage of repro parts. The price was $1500 for that one. So, $3500 can be quite reasonable for a fully original trademark. Good luck! Norman At 04:34 15.06.2008, you wrote: Hi there This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. This was the issue, I know that foreign made machines don't seem to do as well with American buyers. I will guage the screw threads to make sure they are not metric. I have had a repro of this type myself, and I know what to look for on that count. The horn is an obvious original horn, though perhaps not original to this model. The horn is nickel plated, with a bell joined to the body with a seam. The bell is a bit bent but pretty nice. The body has obvious spots when plating is mottled a bit. The hold down looks as if it is the tye with the hole all the way through, as it should be. I just want to be sure this machine is not a marriage of old and new. The motor housing looks as it should. The crank is not the flat bar type, it is more like an early Victor slip on crank with the slight offset in the winding arm. I will let you guys know what happens. Thanks! John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
Hello Looks all correct - the nickled horn is as one usually finds on european machines. The 2 different transfers make it additionally interesting! And to be pedantically pedantic Mr Glastris, the Maiden Lane address rather than the later one in City Road. ;-) On 6/18/08, john robles john9ten at pacbell.net wrote: Very true. Well, I haven't heard from the seller now for three days, so I think he found another buyer. Here are pics. http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/john9ten/Berliner/ George Glastris glastris at comcast.net wrote: And if you want to be really pedantic, a TRUE Trade Mark must have the English Gramophone Co. Ltd. label on it, since Barraud used one of those in the painting His Masters Voice. - Original Message - From: Robert Plavzic To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner Hi John My mortgage has also just shot up, taking my blood pressure up in sympathy.. There are trademarks and there are trademarks. Companie Francaise (i.e. French not Canadian) made some different varieties that look similar but are not all necessarily trademarks. Trademark was the model 5 with Clark Johnson soundbox. There is also the model 3 that looks very similar except for the motor casing at the rear that is not rounded like the trademark but begins parallel and kinks into a semi-circular curve - value is much less. CF also made the style 5 and 4 in Mahogany. Trademarks have a horizontal speed adjuster and 3's a vertical one. (style 4 is a larger case that encloses the motor which is fixed diagonally with the winder in a corner. There is an additional Trademark looking CF machine with a larger than standard spring housing that occasionally turns up. In its purest form the trademark should look the same as the machine in the painting. Later style 5's had a cannon style brake rather than the side brake (can it still be called a trademark with a different brake setup? Or with a Concert or Exibition! soundbox???) If it helps, send a photo offline regards Rob On 6/16/08, john robles wrote: It has been suggested that this could be a Canadian model, and thus worth a little less on the American market. It has a decal that says 'Cie Francaise du Gramophone, Paris No 2137'. Norman Bruderhofer wrote: Hey John, I remember seeing a trademark at the Wayne show about four years ago. It was very beautiful but had been restored with a significant percentage of repro parts. The price was $1500 for that one. So, $3500 can be quite reasonable for a fully original trademark. Good luck! Norman At 04:34 15.06.2008, you wrote: Hi there This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. This was the issue, I know that foreign made machines don't seem to do as well with American buyers. I will guage the screw threads to make sure they are not metric. I have had a repro of this type myself, and I know what to look for on that count. The horn is an obvious original horn, though perhaps not original to this model. The horn is nickel plated, with a bell joined to the body with a seam. The bell is a bit bent but pretty nice. The body has obvious spots when plating is mottled a bit. The hold down looks as if it is the tye with the hole all the way through, as it should be. I just want to be sure this machine is not a marriage of old and new. The motor housing looks as it should. The crank is not the flat bar type, it is more like an early Victor slip on crank with the slight offset in the winding arm. I will let you guys know what happens. Thanks! John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
Hey John, I remember seeing a trademark at the Wayne show about four years ago. It was very beautiful but had been restored with a significant percentage of repro parts. The price was $1500 for that one. So, $3500 can be quite reasonable for a fully original trademark. Good luck! Norman At 04:34 15.06.2008, you wrote: Hi there This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. This was the issue, I know that foreign made machines don't seem to do as well with American buyers. I will guage the screw threads to make sure they are not metric. I have had a repro of this type myself, and I know what to look for on that count. The horn is an obvious original horn, though perhaps not original to this model. The horn is nickel plated, with a bell joined to the body with a seam. The bell is a bit bent but pretty nice. The body has obvious spots when plating is mottled a bit. The hold down looks as if it is the tye with the hole all the way through, as it should be. I just want to be sure this machine is not a marriage of old and new. The motor housing looks as it should. The crank is not the flat bar type, it is more like an early Victor slip on crank with the slight offset in the winding arm. I will let you guys know what happens. Thanks! John
[Phono-L] Berliner
In a message dated 6/16/2008 8:48:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, phono-l at cylinder.de writes: This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. - Does it also have the Broadway address in NYC (on the rectangular gold/black decal)? What is the full serial # on the mainspring hump (near the crank)? Allen **Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg0005000102)
[Phono-L] Berliner Trademark
Bob's e-mail response may have been a bit crude, but his advice was right-on. Buying a Berliner for resale to earn money can be a big problem, unless you are very careful and experienced with them. These machines are generally purchased as interesting historical artifacts, rather than fine playing phonos. They are not rare, and usually sell in the range of 2-4K, sometimes more depending on originality, condition, country of origin, etc. Most have repro parts and therefore not desirable to many serious collectors. They usually sit on the shelf and look cute with a nipper looking into the horn. I doubt collectors play them very often as records are hard to fine, expensive, and usually quite worn. If you want to resell one, it would be best to get an original from a little old ladies attic :) As Bob said, it may be best to pass on this one unless it's is a very good deal. In that case, keep it on your shelf. Just my opinion. Ray
[Phono-L] Berliner
Hi Allen I have not yet seen it up close, just pics. I am trying to make an appt to go see it. Once I do I will let you know. THere is a decal in French which I have described in a posting I just sent. That one says #2137. AllenAmet at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/16/2008 8:48:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, phono-l at cylinder.de writes: This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. - Does it also have the Broadway address in NYC (on the rectangular gold/black decal)? What is the full serial # on the mainspring hump (near the crank)? Allen **Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg0005000102) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
It has been suggested that this could be a Canadian model, and thus worth a little less on the American market. It has a decal that says 'Cie Francaise du Gramophone, Paris No 2137'. Norman Bruderhofer phono-l at cylinder.de wrote: Hey John, I remember seeing a trademark at the Wayne show about four years ago. It was very beautiful but had been restored with a significant percentage of repro parts. The price was $1500 for that one. So, $3500 can be quite reasonable for a fully original trademark. Good luck! Norman At 04:34 15.06.2008, you wrote: Hi there This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. This was the issue, I know that foreign made machines don't seem to do as well with American buyers. I will guage the screw threads to make sure they are not metric. I have had a repro of this type myself, and I know what to look for on that count. The horn is an obvious original horn, though perhaps not original to this model. The horn is nickel plated, with a bell joined to the body with a seam. The bell is a bit bent but pretty nice. The body has obvious spots when plating is mottled a bit. The hold down looks as if it is the tye with the hole all the way through, as it should be. I just want to be sure this machine is not a marriage of old and new. The motor housing looks as it should. The crank is not the flat bar type, it is more like an early Victor slip on crank with the slight offset in the winding arm. I will let you guys know what happens. Thanks! John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner Trademark
Now THIS is what Bob's email should have said. I get this, and it is good advice without making me feel like a whipped puppy as his email did. wilenzick at bellsouth.net wrote: Bob's e-mail response may have been a bit crude, but his advice was right-on. Buying a Berliner for resale to earn money can be a big problem, unless you are very careful and experienced with them. These machines are generally purchased as interesting historical artifacts, rather than fine playing phonos. They are not rare, and usually sell in the range of 2-4K, sometimes more depending on originality, condition, country of origin, etc. Most have repro parts and therefore not desirable to many serious collectors. They usually sit on the shelf and look cute with a nipper looking into the horn. I doubt collectors play them very often as records are hard to fine, expensive, and usually quite worn. If you want to resell one, it would be best to get an original from a little old ladies attic :) As Bob said, it may be best to pass on this one unless it's is a very good deal. In that case, keep it on your shelf. Just my opinion. Ray ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
Hey all I have a line on a Berliner Trademark machine for a reasonable price. Since my partner has been laid off and money may become an issue, I am thinking of buying it for resale. My dilemma - never having shopped for one, I am not sure what a good price to ask would be. Another dilemma - asking you guys is sort of hard, because if I sell it here one of you may want it. Since I would resell it to help with the mortgage, I need a to get a good price, but I would want to give the list a deal too. Woe is me Any advice on fair price would be helpful. Thanks John Robles
[Phono-L] Berliner
You sound like someone dabbling in the stock market without th eslightest idea of what he's doinng and then asking for tips from the guys selling you sth estocks. Ifyou don't have the knowledge or experience to decide what is a good deal on this machine I suggest you pass. - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Hey all I have a line on a Berliner Trademark machine for a reasonable price. Since my partner has been laid off and money may become an issue, I am thinking of buying it for resale. My dilemma - never having shopped for one, I am not sure what a good price to ask would be. Another dilemma - asking you guys is sort of hard, because if I sell it here one of you may want it. Since I would resell it to help with the mortgage, I need a to get a good price, but I would want to give the list a deal too. Woe is me Any advice on fair price would be helpful. Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1502 - Release Date: 6/13/2008 7:25 PM
[Phono-L] Berliner
The tone of that response sounded sort of pointed, but I will overlook that. This group has always been helpful to those seeking assistance, and I have been a collector for over 25 years but I have never had a Berliner nor done much research on it. This is an original machine, and the price being asked is decent, that I know. My quandary is what a fair resale price would be, emphasis on fair. I think the last time I saw one sell, it was about $3500. If I can buy this one, resell for a fair price to someone on the board who wants it, and gain some money towards another mortgage payment, I will be happy. I am just trying to stave off homelessness for awhile, Not that it is that bad, we have three months savings. But when you get laid off and start to see those saving dwindle, you become conscious of every penny. Bob rvuill at comcast.net wrote: You sound like someone dabbling in the stock market without th eslightest idea of what he's doinng and then asking for tips from the guys selling you sth estocks. Ifyou don't have the knowledge or experience to decide what is a good deal on this machine I suggest you pass. - Original Message - From: john robles To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Hey all I have a line on a Berliner Trademark machine for a reasonable price. Since my partner has been laid off and money may become an issue, I am thinking of buying it for resale. My dilemma - never having shopped for one, I am not sure what a good price to ask would be. Another dilemma - asking you guys is sort of hard, because if I sell it here one of you may want it. Since I would resell it to help with the mortgage, I need a to get a good price, but I would want to give the list a deal too. Woe is me Any advice on fair price would be helpful. Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1502 - Release Date: 6/13/2008 7:25 PM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
In a message dated 6/14/2008 5:10:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rvuill at comcast.net writes: You sound like someone dabbling in the stock market without th eslightest idea of what he's doinng and then asking for tips from the guys selling you sth estocks. Ifyou don't have the knowledge or experience to decide what is a good deal on this machine I suggest you pass. This type of reply is not only rude, it is crude. Rick A. Jorgensen GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION http://www.geaaonline.org UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES (103 Skits!) http://members.aol.com/AGW1892/unclejosh.html ** Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg0005000102)
[Phono-L] Berliner
Hi John, I'll ignore what Bob says here, that was rather cold. While I don't know much about Berliners, I'd say $3500-4000 resale for a complete, all original Berliner in decent enough shape shouldn't be asking too much. I hope others with more know-how in the Berliner department can make this a little more accurate than I. Sorry to hear about the hard times, I can relate! Sean -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john robles Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 8:21 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner The tone of that response sounded sort of pointed, but I will overlook that. This group has always been helpful to those seeking assistance, and I have been a collector for over 25 years but I have never had a Berliner nor done much research on it. This is an original machine, and the price being asked is decent, that I know. My quandary is what a fair resale price would be, emphasis on fair. I think the last time I saw one sell, it was about $3500. If I can buy this one, resell for a fair price to someone on the board who wants it, and gain some money towards another mortgage payment, I will be happy. I am just trying to stave off homelessness for awhile, Not that it is that bad, we have three months savings. But when you get laid off and start to see those saving dwindle, you become conscious of every penny. Bob rvuill at comcast.net wrote: You sound like someone dabbling in the stock market without th eslightest idea of what he's doinng and then asking for tips from the guys selling you sth estocks. Ifyou don't have the knowledge or experience to decide what is a good deal on this machine I suggest you pass. - Original Message - From: john robles To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Hey all I have a line on a Berliner Trademark machine for a reasonable price. Since my partner has been laid off and money may become an issue, I am thinking of buying it for resale. My dilemma - never having shopped for one, I am not sure what a good price to ask would be. Another dilemma - asking you guys is sort of hard, because if I sell it here one of you may want it. Since I would resell it to help with the mortgage, I need a to get a good price, but I would want to give the list a deal too. Woe is me Any advice on fair price would be helpful. Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1502 - Release Date: 6/13/2008 7:25 PM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner
Hi there This Berliner has a second decal on the other side that says 'Cie Francaise du gramophone No. 2172'. I can't see the Berliner decal very clearly (I have only seen photos so far) but when and if I go see it in person, I will make sure the decal is in English. This was the issue, I know that foreign made machines don't seem to do as well with American buyers. I will guage the screw threads to make sure they are not metric. I have had a repro of this type myself, and I know what to look for on that count. The horn is an obvious original horn, though perhaps not original to this model. The horn is nickel plated, with a bell joined to the body with a seam. The bell is a bit bent but pretty nice. The body has obvious spots when plating is mottled a bit. The hold down looks as if it is the tye with the hole all the way through, as it should be. I just want to be sure this machine is not a marriage of old and new. The motor housing looks as it should. The crank is not the flat bar type, it is more like an early Victor slip on crank with the slight offset in the winding arm. I will let you guys know what happens. Thanks! John Sean Miller smille1 at nycap.rr.com wrote: Hi John, I'll ignore what Bob says here, that was rather cold. While I don't know much about Berliners, I'd say $3500-4000 resale for a complete, all original Berliner in decent enough shape shouldn't be asking too much. I hope others with more know-how in the Berliner department can make this a little more accurate than I. Sorry to hear about the hard times, I can relate! Sean -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john robles Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 8:21 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner The tone of that response sounded sort of pointed, but I will overlook that. This group has always been helpful to those seeking assistance, and I have been a collector for over 25 years but I have never had a Berliner nor done much research on it. This is an original machine, and the price being asked is decent, that I know. My quandary is what a fair resale price would be, emphasis on fair. I think the last time I saw one sell, it was about $3500. If I can buy this one, resell for a fair price to someone on the board who wants it, and gain some money towards another mortgage payment, I will be happy. I am just trying to stave off homelessness for awhile, Not that it is that bad, we have three months savings. But when you get laid off and start to see those saving dwindle, you become conscious of every penny. Bob wrote: You sound like someone dabbling in the stock market without th eslightest idea of what he's doinng and then asking for tips from the guys selling you sth estocks. Ifyou don't have the knowledge or experience to decide what is a good deal on this machine I suggest you pass. - Original Message - From: john robles To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Hey all I have a line on a Berliner Trademark machine for a reasonable price. Since my partner has been laid off and money may become an issue, I am thinking of buying it for resale. My dilemma - never having shopped for one, I am not sure what a good price to ask would be. Another dilemma - asking you guys is sort of hard, because if I sell it here one of you may want it. Since I would resell it to help with the mortgage, I need a to get a good price, but I would want to give the list a deal too. Woe is me Any advice on fair price would be helpful. Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1502 - Release Date: 6/13/2008 7:25 PM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Berliner recording artist question
Can anyone shed any light on Berliner z450. a Banjo solo. It looks like Mr. Clements or Mr. Clemens. Birth/death dates would be helpful. Did he make any other recordings? Thanks, Ron L
[Phono-L] berliner
[Phono-L] Berliner Ratchet wind on ebay.
Has anyone seen a ratchet wind berliner that has a cabinet like the one on ebay??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=6511278183 All of the ones that I have seen documented have a cabinet similar to a trademark machine. This one has a top board that is removable, similar to later type victor machines. It is curious and I was hoping someone has documentation of this cabinet style. It may just be an un-documented model. It sure looks original. Gregg Cline
[Phono-L] Berliner Ratchet wind on ebay.
Not sure why that went so high... someone clearly cut or removed the top off the original cabinet and replaced it. So what is really original, the motor??? - Original Message - From: gregg cline zonoph...@woh.rr.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Ratchet wind on ebay. Has anyone seen a ratchet wind berliner that has a cabinet like the one on ebay??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=6511278183 All of the ones that I have seen documented have a cabinet similar to a trademark machine. This one has a top board that is removable, similar to later type victor machines. It is curious and I was hoping someone has documentation of this cabinet style. It may just be an un-documented model. It sure looks original. Gregg Cline ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Berliner Ratchet wind on ebay.
Hi Vince Well spotted if this was the case (sorry, no pun intended) I was also thinking that this was very futuristic as the other Montross motor models I'd seen had the usual box type shape. I'm sure its easy to convert it back to original. best wishes Rob Not sure why that went so high... someone clearly cut or removed the top off the original cabinet and replaced it. So what is really original, the motor??? - Original Message - From: gregg cline zonoph...@woh.rr.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner Ratchet wind on ebay. Has anyone seen a ratchet wind berliner that has a cabinet like the one on ebay??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=6511278183 All of the ones that I have seen documented have a cabinet similar to a trademark machine. This one has a top board that is removable, similar to later type victor machines. It is curious and I was hoping someone has documentation of this cabinet style. It may just be an un-documented model. It sure looks original. Gregg Cline ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
[Phono-L] Berliner Ratchet wind on ebay.
Robert Plavzic wrote: Well spotted if this was the case (sorry, no pun intended) I was also thinking that this was very futuristic as the other Montross motor models I'd seen had the usual box type shape. I'm sure its easy to convert it back to original. It seems also that the arm intended to support the horn has been broken in two, with a small metal plate used to join it back together.
[Phono-L] Berliner Gram-o-phone question on ebay - item 6591994538
Happy New Year everyone! Yes, this soundbox is correct. It was sold in both tone arm and long throat versions. Only used in Canada. Best, Tim Fabrizio Phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Visit the phonophan Web site: www.phonophan.com
[Phono-L] Berliner Gram-o-phone question on ebay - item 6591994538
Hello Group, Happy New Year to all of you! I saw this phonograph on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=6591994538 I never saw this type of soundbox on any Victor / HMV / Berliner. Is it original? Anyone know something about it if it is not original of this brand? Thanks for your information Happy collecting in 2006 Best regards Friedhelm www.gramophone.de _ Sie suchen E-Mails, Dokumente oder Fotos? Die neue MSN Suche Toolbar mit Windows-Desktopsuche liefert in sekundenschnelle Ergebnisse. Jetzt neu! http://desktop.msn.de/ Jetzt gratis downloaden!
