Re: [RBW] Re: For Leah re my Gallop

[Jason Fuller]

Planned impulsivity, I like it. That's a very sound plan in my opinion
because you can likely score a TIG Roadini for a good price, and all the
parts would swap over to either a lugged Roadini if you love it, or a CHG
if you think you want something longer.  I know you're not trying to be,
but I think you're being very practical here!



On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 10:44 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Valerie, I’m going to take your formula and apply it. I’m looking for the
> used 50 Roadini and if anyone sees one first ,will ya send it my way? And
> then maybe this fall I end up with the lugged and sell the TIG’d. I don’t
> know! It’s an adventure! I plan to be impulsive! Not money-savvy! A real
> handful! 朗
>
> Join me,
> Leah
>
> On Friday, May 10, 2024 at 6:50:30 PM UTC-4 Valerie Yates wrote:
>
>> Brent! So glad you are happy with the Bleriot. That bike is silky smooth. 
>> Entirely
>> comparable to both my Roadeo and Soma San Marcos. Which is why I was able
>> to let it go. I am so glad it is living its best life.
>>
>> Leah -  All of the above. If a used one turns up, buy it. If you love it
>> and want a lugged one, sell the used one. If a used one doesn't turn up,
>> order a lugged one. If a used one turns up while your lugged one is
>> pending, then it depends on price and timing. 
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 10, 2024 at 4:38:35 PM UTC-6 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm another person whose been showing up to road bike group rides on a
>>> road-style Riv the last year or so and it's been a fun journey! I was lucky
>>> to buy Valerie's old Riv Bleriot on here and I maintain it as the
>>> befendered iteration of my two "fast" bikes- aka bikes with smooth tires
>>> and drop bars. it's nice having a dedicated fender bike for when a surprise
>>> midwest rain storm passes through 2 hours before a ride
>>>
>>> anyway I always show up in a t-shirt or hoodie and chaco sandals and my
>>> bars level with the leather saddle. While the RoadieBoys™ seem confused
>>> about socializing with someone whose appearance/bike doesn't meet their
>>> expectations, the women and other folks always say how beautiful the
>>> Bleriot is, how the fenders are so smart in keeping my sandal'd feet clean
>>> while being helpful to whoever might be behind me, and how neat it is that
>>> I'm still fast "enough" to keep pace despite not having the roadie-culture
>>> promoted bike, shoes, or clothing :)
>>>
>>> Leah, I wish you the best on your road bike journey! I admire your
>>> commitment to Rivendells (an easy brand to commit to honestly), and hope a
>>> Roadeo comes along either at a good deal or with beautiful lugs to add to
>>> your hella colorful collection
>>>
>>> -Brent in chicago
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 10, 2024 at 5:25:29 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is SO fun.
>>>>
>>>> Diana, yes please post here as you make your observations/get your
>>>> answers. Valerie, your bikes are so cool. Heck, YOU are so cool. Here you
>>>> were, all this time, and you have so much to offer us here; I truly hope we
>>>> get to hear from you regularly after this. Philip, I agree about the
>>>> Roadini. I think Valerie’s photos were helpful (and yours of the updated
>>>> model, too) and show the CHG to be less club-ridey than I was hoping for.
>>>> That Roadeo looks like just the ticket, though. A Roadini should be a great
>>>> choice. Now, do I wait for the lugged versions or hope for a 50 on the used
>>>> market? So far there have been none to be found…
>>>> L
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, May 10, 2024 at 3:46:00 PM UTC-4 philip@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Me either!
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m team Roadini for Leah, for sure!
>>>>>
>>>>> All this talk has me jonesing for that very big red Road custom
>>>>> currently on offer at a very reasonable price…
>>>>>
>>>>> P. W.
>>>>> ~
>>>>> (917) 514-2207
>>>>> ~
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 10, 2024, at 12:37 PM, Valerie Yates  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Philip - Agreed! My observations on this version may be entirely
>>>>> irrelevant to the production version. Although, I will add that nothing in
>>>>> that pict

Re: [RBW] Re: For Leah re my Gallop

[Jason Fuller]

Valerie made a good point that drop bars are going to feel quite different 
set up the way the typical club rider has versus how you could set up a Riv 
roadie - chances are, you'll want to the bars up higher, though you may 
find yourself lowering them if you get more serious about speed. I love 
quill stems for making this such an easy thing to do! 

And to your clarification question earlier, yes, from the geometry and 
Grant's comments I've seen to date I'd say the Roadini is primarily a drop 
bar bike while the CHG is primarily a swept bar bike, and while each can 
handle the other bar type, I think you'd ultimately find it's not optimal. 
I know that drops are the popular vote in this thread but I do think a CHG 
set up with the Choco bar and a long stem, with bar tape ahead of the 
levers for a more aero hand position, and bars set fairly low (just a 
smidge above saddle height, give or take) would be a great club ride bike, 
plenty different than your other bikes, yet more familiar feeling than 
going to drop bars.  



On Friday 10 May 2024 at 07:15:30 UTC-7 diana@gmail.com wrote:

> Chiming in to say that this particular conversation comes at a great time 
> for me! I was planning to buy the Roadini, but this whole thread is causing 
> me to second guess. Leah, I'm planning to go to Riv in June sometime and 
> ask them all the questions about Roadini vs CHG. I'll make sure to post 
> what I learn. Until then, fun to speculate and read others thoughts.
> On Friday, May 10, 2024 at 6:54:37 AM UTC-6 sarahlik...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Valerie, I am also looking forward to your photos. I love show and tell!  
>> Thank you for your posts which I have started looking forward to. 
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>> On Friday, May 10, 2024 at 5:32:29 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I think the big thing is that the gallop was designed for sweptback bars 
>>> and the roadini was not. In the world of Rivendell I am not sure what that 
>>> equates to because most of their bikes can go either way and Grant has said 
>>> that is true here too if you use a short stem. That statement tells me that 
>>> the effective top tube on the gallop will be longer and most likely the 
>>> wheelbase will be as well. If I can figure out how to measure those things 
>>> well I can give it a shot on my prototype and assuming the end geometry is 
>>> pretty similar to the production model we would get some info. Points for 
>>> the gallop would be 1. Just different enough to get you a go fast bike that 
>>> still turns some heads 2. Geometry providing a better fit for an 
>>> alternative cockpit if you don't like the drops.
>>>
>>> Downside to the gallop is that the lower top tube allows a larger size 
>>> to fit better. I think its a good guess that Rivendell would steer people 
>>> that way and you likely would be very comfy on a size similar to the larger 
>>> Platy but I think doing that might make drops a bit harder to be 
>>> comfortable on. It would likely need a very very short stem. I guess thats 
>>> not a downside it just makes the sizing discussion a little more open on 
>>> the gallop than the Roadini. But wiht the new 50cm platy you will be packed 
>>> with all sorts of sizing and comfort information to rely on.
>>>
>>> Otherwise weight and tubing specs are probably pretty similar between 
>>> the two
>>> On Friday, May 10, 2024 at 8:03:31 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Woah, that’s a pretty steep drop from Will’s saddle to bars for me! But 
 it’s pretty.

 I look forward to your photos, Valerie, and how I wish I lived in your 
 neighborhood so I could bring my saddle and try your bikes. 

 When it all boils down, it’s this:
 I’m looking to see what it’s like to ride a stripped-down roadish 
 Rivendell and see how that affects my performance on group rides. 
 Rivendell 
 offers 2 (not counting the hard-to-obtain Roadeo) road bikes in their 
 lineup and I’m trying to differentiate between them and see which one is 
 better for me. I hope they can make that clear in their product 
 description 
 when the time comes for them to launch the CHG. Meanwhile, we get to chat 
 and speculate and evaluate here and it is loads of fun! 

 Also, thank you again to everyone for sharing your wisdom with me. Keep 
 it coming!
 L

 On May 9, 2024, at 9:46 PM, P W  wrote:

 You know, as soon as I hit send, I thought: “It’s a Riv, I bet the 
 tire clearance is actually massive!”


 

 For how a go-fast Riv roadie could and should look, what better source 
 of inspiration than Will’s:

 


 See also:


 <441164476_1599207264208847_1445036392027071003_n.jpg>
  
 Calling in Sick Magazine on Instagram: "#bikecheck #willkeating 
 @rivbike" 
 

[RBW] Re: For Leah re my Gallop

[Jason Fuller]

I totally get not wanting to purchase a non-Rivendell, but it might be well 
worthwhile to borrow or rent a drop bar bike to try out - of course, it'll 
be disorienting, but should hopefully give you a sense of "I think I'd get 
used to this" versus "this is definitely not for me". The reason I say this 
is because it could be all the difference between choosing October's lugged 
Roadini versus November's Charlie H Gallop. I know that both bikes can run 
either, in theory, but in practice they are much more suited to one vs the 
other. 




On Thursday 9 May 2024 at 06:15:15 UTC-7 sarahlik...@gmail.com wrote:

> I just built a lovely Homer that fills that riding gap, but I do plan to 
> watch other people build theirs LEAH!
>
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 10:20:33 AM UTC-7 Valerie Yates wrote:
>
>>
>> Sarah - thanks! Are you thinking of getting one?
>> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 6:30:15 AM UTC-6 sarahlik...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for this Valerie, your post made my morning!
>>>
>>> Sarah
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 6, 2024 at 1:30:11 PM UTC-7 Valerie Yates wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the kind words! I've been enjoying yours and Bill's and many 
 others' posts for years but I only rarely chime-in. 

 I have loved riding bikes since childhood, got my first drop-bars when 
 I was 8 (the Schwinn Bicentennial 10 speed), and yet my club riding phase 
 was also late (40-45) and very brief. I had just moved to Boulder, CO and 
 the club rides were a great way to get to know popular, local routes. But 
 I 
 am introverted and group activities just aren't my scene. I have a few 
 folks with whom I like to ride and, whenever I can, I sign up for a trip 
 with HeartCycle.org. On the HC rides, everyone goes at their own pace. I 
 enjoy the random camaraderie that occurs during the ride without any 
 expectation of continuing to ride together. The club is based in Denver, 
 started by doctors, has long-standing members from across the US, and 
 offers trips across the US and Europe. Experienced riders, great routes, 
 fully supported, non-profit, and not fancy. They welcome new members if 
 that ever interests you or anyone else reading this. 

 My understanding of the Roadini is based on the website: 
 Roadini -  Functionally like a Roadeo, priced like a Clem.

 To me, the Roadeo feels absolutely plush, smooth, and elegant compared 
 to the too small, too stiff, carbon-framed, low-barred, skinny-tired road 
 bike I was persuaded to get when I moved to Boulder to fit in on rides 
 with 
 various clubs. That bike is long gone. The shorter wheel-base, stiffer 
 tubing, and skinner tires of the Roadeo makes it much more taut and spare 
 feeling than the Gallop. For me, the Roadeo is the ultimate, classic road 
 bike for challenging myself on paved rides -- whether going fast or 
 climbing on my own or riding with faster friends.   

 The long-length, fat-swoop tubing, and fatter-tire capability of the 
 Gallop seems more like a lightweight, road-oriented Susie, to me. Less 
 concern about potholes and road texture than on the Roadeo and more 
 playful, all-day comfort. Since I haven't actually tried it on the rides I 
 do with the Roadeo, I can't say for sure how it compares. Its performance 
 could surprise me. In any event, I think the Gallop will be really fun and 
 a great intro to drop bars coming from the the upright models you've been 
 riding. I am eager to read your ride reports. 

 On Monday, May 6, 2024 at 12:51:38 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
 wrote:

> Valerie, well you’re an undiscovered treasure. I haven’t had the 
> privilege to know you but just reading this reveals that you are a 
> RivSister with a wealth of bike information and we NEED you here. Wow! It 
> was oddly like reading a Bill Lindsey post with all the talk of 
> incorporating a new bike into your collection and using it for certain 
> subsets of rides. If you two don’t know each other I think you should get 
> acquainted! 
>
> Thanks for taking the time and offering your opinion about this bike. 
> I really think it could be a good first road bike for me, and a good one 
> to 
> experiment with drops. I’m so late getting into serious riding (I found 
> Riv 
> at 31 and was raising little kids but now am 3 years from empty-nesting) 
> and I feel so behind. Everyone else seems like they had their drop bar 
> phase and club riding phase in their 20s and maybe 30s. I never rode a 
> group ride until I was 41. It’s a lot, so I’m very appreciative when 
> other 
> people (especially women) will share what they know. It really, truly 
> helps.
>
> One question: Why do you think the Roadini is more like your Roadeo 
> than your Gallop? What makes the Roadini and the Gallop 

Re: [RBW] Re: Lugged Roadini and Charlie H Gallup

[Jason Fuller]

Good info Valerie!  As the reviewer you are noting, yep, I can totally see 
what you mean and I agree that what I was using it for wasn't quite right 
for what it was as a bike. My Hillborne is actually the perfect bike for 
what I was trying to do. 

I'd bet the production version of the CHG will be less wiggly too, just 
visually going by the diameter of the top tube. I am sure it's still got 
nice springy flex, though. Seems like it's basically a longer wheelbase 
Homer, which seems absolutely perfect for a certain someone who appears to 
already know this bike is perfect for their club ride needs. 

On Sunday 5 May 2024 at 16:33:07 UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

> Valerie, I would love to hear every single thing you say about this bike. 
> Do you have sweepy bars? Drop bars? Have you ridden it on a club ride? Do 
> you find it to be quick and lively? What was the reason you bought your 
> Charlie? 
>
> I don’t know why the lugged Roadini, either. Anyone know?
> Leah
>
> On May 5, 2024, at 7:00 PM, Valerie Yates  wrote:
>
> I just finished tweaking the set up on my 2022 Gallop demo - purple with 
> swoop tube, non-canti version. It rides like a dream. Super silky and 
> nimble. One mistake I had made was to install a heavy duty pannier rack on 
> it. It made the bike feel very noodley. I was tempted to sell it. I think 
> that's why this reviewer 
>  
> complained about its flex. He shows it with the same rack I initially had 
> on it. 
>
>
> When I switched to a top rack, since it was only being used for my tail 
> light and lock, everything came together. Now, I love it for unloaded 
> riding on rough and hilly local roads. I have a huge smile whenever I am 
> riding it. So just chiming in with a note of caution in setting it up for 
> its intended purpose. It is not meant as a loaded touring bike and, even 
> without a load, a rack that is too stiff will impact its performance. 
>  Can't wait to see the set-ups on the production models. 
>
> On Sunday, May 5, 2024 at 2:44:51 PM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about the whole lugged Roadini thing now. The Susie I 
>> understand because its a cost/time of manufacture thing but in the case of 
>> the Roadini it basically is just upping the cost. Unless the feeling is 
>> that a lugged model will just sell better regardless of a higher price.
>>
>> On Sunday, May 5, 2024 at 3:35:27 PM UTC-4 Tim Bantham wrote:
>>
>>> I saw the mention of the lugged Roadini. I am 99% certain I will order 
>>> one once they become available. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, May 5, 2024 at 3:17:24 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 "Your friend would be *more* thrilled if this bike was coming in July 
 or something. Like, during riding season!"

 I concede that this would be better!

 On Sunday, May 5, 2024 at 10:12:37 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
 wrote:

> Your friend would be *more* thrilled if this bike was coming in July 
> or something. Like, during riding season!
>
> On Sunday, May 5, 2024 at 12:22:45 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Doug, 
>>
>> My understanding (which may be wrong, my memory for stuff I read a 
>> while ago seems to have left me as I recently approached my 62nd 
>> birthday) 
>> is the CHG will also be lugged and probably not cheap. It will be 
>> longer-stayed than the Roadini. It's coming September! I know at least 
>> one 
>> friend of ours who will be thrilled with this news. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Sunday, May 5, 2024 at 9:04:26 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Grant's most recent Blahg mentioned the frame schedule and the 
>>> upcoming *Lugged *Roadini. It seems the Charlie H Gallup may 
>>> replace the Roadini as the partially lugged more affordable road bike. 
>>> I 
>>> appreciate the cream colored head tubes and full lugs but I also really 
>>> like my solid Mermaid Roadini so I don't feel like I'm missing out. 
>>>
>>> Will the Charlie H Gallup be longer than the Roadini? If so, I do 
>>> think it might work better for me but we shall see. For those waiting 
>>> for 
>>> the CHG, Grant lists them as coming in September.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>> -- 
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[RBW] Re: Blue Lug Build Catalog

[Jason Fuller]

There is truly no equal to Blue Lug. As Eric said, the combination of 
perfectly curated builds combined with excellent photography and an eye for 
getting the best angles. A lot of great shops out there, but BL are on 
their own level. 

I also really appreciate how they note the frame size for each build - I 
think we all want to see what bikes look like in our size when being 
inspired. 

On Saturday 4 May 2024 at 14:54:26 UTC-7 r.ha...@live.com wrote:

> I too have this bookmarked and my Clem L is heavily influenced by them. 
> Also a great website to order from. Turnaround is super quick and you get a 
> bunch of stickers
>
> On Thursday, May 2, 2024 at 3:13:45 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Oh yeah, this is a gallery I have bookmarked. So many great builds and 
>> lots and lots of inspiration. They always nail it, great ideas abound! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 1, 2024 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Many of you may already be aware of this, but Blue Lug has a nice 
>>> catalog of all it's Riv Builds for customers. In the even you want some 
>>> inspiration for your next build, or just want to see some different takes 
>>> on each frame, have a look:
>>>
>>> https://bluelug.com/bike-catalog/model/rivendell-bicycle-works/
>>>
>>> If you click the dropdown in the top right corner and scroll down to the 
>>> Riv section you can even filter for specific models. Been super helpful as 
>>> I accrue the things needed for my upcoming 56cm 2TT Sam I scored from Abe 
>>> on here.
>>>
>>> Hopefully helpful for folks looking to build out that next frame or 
>>> rebuild your old favorite!
>>>
>>> - Drew
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Jason Fuller]

Wow, I show up late and there are ten thousand replies already which is too 
many to read through now 

My initial thought is that going from the racing platy's very upright 
position all the way to a drop bar road bike is a huge jump. I have to say, 
drop bars are truly the best in headwinds, but getting a sweep bar setup 
that allows you to get low and stretch out reaching the forward 'hooks' can 
be a great compromise between those situations and lower-effort riding.  

If it were me, I'd swap the Rasplaty's bar and stem to the longest of the 
new 90-190 stems and a Choco bar; I'd then set up the controls so that you 
can slide your hands all the way to the front curves without having stuff 
in the way (bar end shifters are great for this!) and wrap this area in 
Newbaums.  Then I'd slam the stem down as low as you can get away with - 
bars nearly at saddle level, probably. 

I don't know if this exact thing has already been said, nor what reaction 
may already have been provided, so apologies if I'm being an echo!  Pocket 
Platy might actually be short enough you can run drop bars on it, but you'd 
need a very short stem to pull it off - the Nitto / Crust 'BJ' stem should 
do the trick; it's what I used to get my Bombadil set up with drops at an 
appropriate reach for me and has that classic Nitto finish and quality. 

  

On Thursday 25 April 2024 at 10:47:38 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Bending those "BL" rules forced me to concede that the front derailleur I 
> chose for my 3x1 build was too crappy.  I kind of smugly used the crappiest 
> front derailleur in my bin, because friction shifted front derailleurs are 
> a dime a dozen.  The crappiest one (old Deer Head) proved to be too crappy. 
>  Thanks to this ride I tossed the bike in the stand and put a much nicer FD 
> on there, and now my 3x1 Rom (code name "RoadTrio") satisfies another VERY 
> important category.  That category is "every bike should have one Campy 
> part".  Now with a Mirage Triple FD, RoadTrio is in the club.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:52:35 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> It’s an honor to have the Bill Lindsay Rules bent for our delight here. 
>> We await. Bated breath, and all that jazz!
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>> "Let’s both Rom-ride this summer! We could even do it in Michigan! "
>>
>>
>> I need to grab a bike right now to head over to the dentist.  I'm going 
>> to break my own self-imposed rule and ride my Romulus on its first ride. 
>>  Pics will prove it.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 1:02:31 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Let’s both Rom-ride this summer! We could even do it in Michigan! 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:46 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that falls into Joe Bernard's recommendation of taking a flyer 
>>> on a used Rivendell at decent price.  Love it if you can and sell it if you 
>>> find you can't love it.  Go for it if you can stand over it. 
>>>
>>>
>>> I bought a used 59cm Romulus this year, and built it but haven't ridden 
>>> it, because of my weird self-imposed mileage quota system.  But I will be 
>>> Rom-riding this summer!
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 12:33:00 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?

 On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

 

 Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
 Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
 versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
 Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
 converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
 reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
 this way as well.

 Jim
 Austin, TX burbs

 On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
 jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
> ideal. 
>
> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know 
> what 
> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have 
> before. 
> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>
> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does 
> take a toll on me 

[RBW] Re: Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[Jason Fuller]

When this question arises, regardless of the circumstances we all tend to 
recommend the Riv that we have - which makes sense, since they are all 
fantastic and highly versatile bikes, plus we probably bought the one that 
best suited our own preconceptions. 

In that light I will wholeheartedly support the Hillborne. It's long versus 
old road bikes, but it's not long. I've said it many times already but I'll 
say it again; it is the most perfect evolution of the all-rounder in the 
lineup in my opinion. The tire clearance isn't huge, but you can fit as 
much tire with fenders as makes sense with fenders; and you can fit the 
same size tires we used to MTB on without fenders. I can't imagine being 
unhappy with the Hillborne. It works great with drops, flats, or swept bars 
(but not the super swept ones - Albatross is perfect on it).  The rear end 
is long enough you can fit panniers without heel strike, but short enough 
that it still feels road-ish in its manners. It can be loaded to the gills 
for a big tour, but it doesn't feel wrong when completely unloaded. 

I will always own a Hillborne, I'm sure of this, and that's the only bike I 
can say that about.  



On Friday 5 April 2024 at 17:43:49 UTC-7 Bud Suttree wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> Been enjoying these forums for a while now, with my first post I’d like to 
> lean on the immense collective wisdom here and get some help with picking 
> out the right Rivendell model. I’ve done quite a lot of personal research 
> and spoken to Riv at least once but would like to open things up to the 
> group for general discussion. 
>
>
> Short sketch of my problem: I love bicycles, but haven’t enjoyed riding 
> them in a long time. I have quite a few, and they all are unpleasant to 
> ride for one reason or another. My priorities are, in descending order: 
> comfort, performance (perceived), utility, price/aesthetics (tie), 
> performance (actual), and at the end would be the ability to do any 
> outer-boundary/end-of-spectrum type activity, riding across the country or 
> racing crits, etc. My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 
> miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage 
> chipotle, beer, and post office runs. 
>
>
> Every time I browse the Riv offerings I become convinced I need a 
> different model. I’m thinking maybe the Atlantis would suit me, but I don’t 
> necessarily love the double top tube, and I’d probably be between the 57 
> and 59. The Appaloosa seems pretty similar, but I’m not crazy about either 
> of the current colors. Can’t say I can tell the difference between that one 
> and the Sam, but I like the Sam aesthetic better. I’m also tempted by the 
> gold Susie/Wolbis, but since I’ll be riding mostly around town, worry that 
> it might not feel as agile as the bikes I’m use to riding do.
>
>
> That’s the short version — would welcome any takes or opinions. 
>
>
> Longer story:
>
>
> Like the rest of you, I love bicycles. A substantial amount of my 
> attention is given to them, day after day, in one way or another. 
> Unfortunately, lately this has not translated into actually riding them 
> very often. It’s a paradoxical state, induced by having too many (project) 
> bikes, none of which I can tolerate to ride for more than half an hour. 
> It’s mostly a comfort issue. FWIW, I am a not unhealthy late 20something 
> male with probably poorish posture from desk-jockeying. I rode an aluminum 
> Cannondale road bike daily for five years, crashed, broke some bones and 
> swore it off for two, then entered this present cycle. 
>
>
> Economic realities necessitate the need to flip bikes and parts to fund 
> the passion. Maybe you think that’s a dirty trade; most are. I’ve had the 
> good fortune to pick up an outrageously rare old school BMX bike for 
> essentially nothing that should cover a very nice Rivendell build, and 
> hopefully obviate the need to engage in as much cycling commerce. 
>
>
> Along the way, I’ve acquired an interesting stable:
>
>- 93 Bridgestone RB-1 and MB-2 
>- Custom 90s Ciocc w/ Columbus EL and Chorus 
>- 93ish lugged Trek 990 
>- 1985 Trek 620 
>
> and a cache of interesting parts, so it’s not been for nothing, but I 
> don’t like riding any of those bikes. Had (still have?) big dreams for the 
> RB-1, but cannot tolerate the reach. Have tried a bunch of stem/saddle 
> options, no luck. Currently building it up w/ a Soma Highway bar and zero 
> setback post, preliminary fit check not promising. Found a crack in the 
> MB’s fork when I was tearing it down and don’t think I want to invest in it 
> without the biplane fork. The Ciocc’s max tire clearance for Corsas is 23 
> rear/25 front. The 990 might be all right, and the 620 too, but both need a 
> ton of work. 
>
>
> I’m tired of projects. Wrenching is fun but riding is better, and it was 
> never my goal to be a collector of anything. So, instead of trying to make 
> all these old bikes “like” the bike that I 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long Chainstays - What Problem/Deficiency Do They Solve?

[Jason Fuller]

The only valid way to answer this is to ride them and find out if you like 
it or not. There is no amount of talking about them on the internet that 
can answer the question. That said, I think it's intuitive that it will 
improve comfort even before swinging a leg over one for the same reason 
sitting in the middle of the bus is more comfortable than over the rear 
axle of the bus. At the same time, improving weight balance front to rear 
will benefit front wheel traction, and this is very relevant to Riv's focus 
on safe riding bikes. Not enough weight on the front tire is a recipe for 
the front wheel washing out.  I would also appreciate the ample heel 
clearance with panniers.  

I had the proto Charlie for a bit with 50cm chainstays and it rode nice, I 
saw no drawback to the long rear end, and it improved all the points noted 
above. I wouldn't want them for a bike that I sprint on, or ride really 
playfully like my Wombat, but love it for a touring or commuting bike. 

On Thursday 4 April 2024 at 17:46:01 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Here's one benefit of very long chainstays: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXRjXv_4v0
>
> You couldn't do that on any of my road Rivs or my Sam.
>
> Patrick Moore, who used to use his right foot to brake the 24" front wheel 
> in 28"-wheel fork on his very first build when riding the fw bike without 
> other brakes in heavy traffic and down steep, winding hills on traffic 
> arteries.
>

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[RBW] Re: Drop Bombadil in the depths of the Old Forest

[Jason Fuller]

Cheers, all!  

The stem is as short as they get - Crust BJ stem, which is 25mm length and 
doesn't even have an extension tube. I tend to prefer a shorter reach and 
even on the Hillborne I run a 5cm Tallux, despite the bike not being too 
large at all. I like how it keeps me from being too much on the front wheel 
during off-roading. 

Indeed I have safety tabs on the front, will on the rear soon too - I did 
have a stick jam situation before while on a very untrodden and remote 
stretch of double track and I don't wish to repeat that harrowing situation 
again. They are the Simworks 63mm fenders and underneath are 48mm 
Ultradynamicos.  I don't really like knobby tires plus fenders generally 
because all the "bzzzt" noise of pebbles going through the fender is 
annoying, but these are good because they have a pretty solid center 
section and widely spaced, shallow knobs on the side - they don't pick 
stuff up like most knobbies. Plus they handle predictably both on and off 
pavement  

On Thursday 28 March 2024 at 12:39:15 UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:

> Looks great Jason. Also curious about the stem. And wondering what width 
> tires under those fenders? Looks like you may have break-away fender tabs 
> on there?
>
> John
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> This bike is not new to most of you, but I wanted to share a proper photo 
>> taken by a friend of the current configuration. The photo was taken midway 
>> up a low-traffic, rather technical hiking trail that followed a creek up 
>> the mountain to the powerline cut where we were aiming. None of it was 
>> rideable, nor did we expected it would be. It's a heck of an upper body 
>> workout, and frustrating at times, but I've been enjoying these "rides" 
>> where we try to link up sections we know are good using as little pavement 
>> as possible. The key has been to accept that there will be some 
>> hike-a-bike. 
>>
>> Anyhow, the Bombadil, which I've had since October 2020, purchased from 
>> Joe, and repainted by Chris DeKerf around Christmas 2021, is now in "drop 
>> bar adventure bike" configuration. It's strange, no doubt, to have a 
>> Hillborne and Bombadil and to put the drop bars on the Bombadil. But my 
>> logic is - the Hillborne is a great commuter and errand bike on Albatross 
>> and with the pannier rack. It's got a kickstand, too. The Bombadil may be 
>> stout but it's capable of just about anything, and with drop bars it feels 
>> pretty sporty and not unlike a 'monstercross' rig. Just prettier. 
>>
>> Plans at present include: install the SON fender mount tail light I have 
>> around, add a M1-B front rack so I can run a larger bag, and swap the 
>> bright fender flap for a grey Riv one I have kicking around. I also have a 
>> full canvas camp setup using R-10 and Tubus Tara racks; looking forward to 
>> some more adventures on this soon! 
>>
>> [image: 103081.jpg] 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] It's New Bike What?

[Jason Fuller]

Looks awesome, I didn't think Riv would even make a custom this 'racey' 
anymore! Maybe only because you already had the custom history with them? 

On Saturday 23 March 2024 at 11:30:28 UTC-7 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> Hi Patrick -
>
> Love the Richey Micros. They are one-sided and weighted to be in the 
> optimal position when you want to clip in.
>
> I've had lots of Schwalbe tires. I get flats on almost every ride with 
> G-Ones. But the Hurricanes have never flatted. I have them on three bikes 
> now: Hubbuhubbuh, Custom and Quickbeam. I really like the cushy ride of 
> supple tires. But a tire that flats nearly every time I ride is of no use 
> to me. Reliability is very important to me.
>
> Regards,
>
> CZ
>
> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 11:03:40 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Lovely and intriguing! Certainly an eclectic build -- that's a positive. 
>> How do you like the Hurricanes and the Ritchey Micros?
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 10:42 AM John Bokman  wrote:
>>
>>> That ride looks like so much fun! Love the color pop of the Red brakes 
>>> on Purple frameset. Reminds me of days on my 1994 Maroon mustached XO-3. 
>>> Also my 1990 MB2 (because it was also purple). Thanks for posting Corwin.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 3:30:25 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 Looks great, and I love the color, and the fat tires with 
 the Albastache combo.

 I think you win the Riv with the lowest bars award!

 Eric

 On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 2:03 AM Corwin Zechar  wrote:

> It's definitely not new bike day. That was back in the first week of 
> February. Not even New Bike Month. So it's New Bike Quarter?
>
> Anyway, I picked up my much anticipated and long-awaited custom 
> Rivendell last month. Some interesting aspects include:
>
> 1) SRAM drop bar levers mounted on opposite sides (with respect to 
> normal drop bar mounting) on Nitto Albastache bars - as suggested by Bill 
> Lindsay.
>
> 2) A Fizik Aliante Gamma saddle recovered by Mick Peel in Australia 
> and sporting the Rivendell logo.
>
> 3) A Rich Lesnik built wheelset with Onyx hubs and Velocity Quill rims.
>
> 4) SRAM rear derailer and SRAM bar-end shifters.
>
> 5) Shimano Ultegra 6650 compact double crankset with TA Specialities 
> chainrings
>
> 6) Chris King bottom bracket with outboard bearings.
>
> 7) DT Swiss skewers.
>
> 8) Custom lug carving by Mark Nobilette.
>
> 9) Ritchey Micro Road pedals.
>
> 10) Tektro CX 8.4 short-pull V-brakes.
>
> The main difference between my new custom and the old custom are the 
> cantilever posts and lug carving.
>
> I can report that my new custom feels just like my old custom - 
> wherever it is. I rode the bike in the Redlands Strada Rossa last 
> Saturday 
> and it performed flawlessly - despite my lack of experience on dirt roads 
> and singletrack.
>
> A few photos illustrating the most salient aspects follow...
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Corwin
>
> [image: drivetrain.jpg][image: carvedLugs.jpg]
>
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> 
> .
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 -- 
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: I have questions

[Jason Fuller]

Patrick: I've run the Umtanum (650x55) in endurance casing, and have pals I
ride with regularly on the full range basically - 650x42, 650x48, and
700x38 but all on the endurance casing. I plan to try the Extralight
version next, but honestly the Endurance doesn't feel stiff nor heavy.
Every one of my riding pals who've taken the plunge have been singing their
praises loud and far, and seemingly everyone I ride with is going to them
now as a result.

I will agree that they are not particularly quiet on the road, even the
claimed noise-cancelling models. They're not nearly as quiet as a Gravel
King SK. I will say though that they have a pleasant enough tone, and that
noise doesn't translate to slowness at all - coming to realize this is
critical to enjoying them fully. Much like we're sort of pre-programmed to
believe that the feedback of skinny tires translates to speed, even though
we know better now, the same is true of the buzz from knobby tires. Thanks
to Strava I can confidently say that I'm not appreciably slower on the RH
knobbies, though if I don't need them I'd prefer the silence of the slicks.


On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 7:46 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Jason: Which RH knobbies, pray? I just scored a near-new, Normal Casing
> pair of 622X48 (will be at least 50 on my rims) Oracle Ridges for $100
> shipped, and Fat Tire Cycles will set them up tubeless on the new Velocity
> Blunt SS wheelset for a dirt-biased wheelset for the dirt road Matthews.
> The Soma Supple Vitesse SLs will remain on the original wheelset, for
> pavement-biased riding but capable of shallower sand. But if Oracle Ridges
> roll as well as RH claims for their knobbies, I may not have needed a
> second wheelset ...
>
> Since my Kelpie fenders (a) were sized and sited for 60s, and so have at
> least an inch of clearance over 50s, and (b) are, sheet metal and stays, at
> least 50% thicker than your puny Honjos and Berthouds and VOs, I am going
> to risk Oracles and fenders.
>
> Patrick Moore, who sped home from church just now on the very fast and
> lively Nachess Pass EL wheelset on the other Matthews.
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 6:32 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
>> ... I am going to sow the seed now that the gravel & travel platy should
>> run RH knobbies if no fenders - they are remarkably quick on pavement and a
>> lifesaver on gravel and dirt. I run them on my Wombat which I ride on some
>> challenging terrain and I've never felt the tires were a limiting factor
>> yet!
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: I have questions

[Jason Fuller]

ty I agree that charging devices via dynamo hub is not worth the trouble,
expense, and risk (of damaging your devices from the variable current) when
battery bricks are very economical and super convenient. I can charge my
phone about five times over with my little battery brick that cost $40 a
few years ago, whether on the road or in the cafe.  It lives in my bike bag
so I never forget it.

I am going to sow the seed now that the gravel & travel platy should run RH
knobbies if no fenders - they are remarkably quick on pavement and a
lifesaver on gravel and dirt. I run them on my Wombat which I ride on some
challenging terrain and I've never felt the tires were a limiting factor
yet!

On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 5:13 PM Johnny Alien 
wrote:

> I actually forgot all about that. I had read a large and very nerdy
> article on this recently. The reason why this hasn't taken off is because
> its not really practical or efficient to charge a phone with the dynamo.
> Most phones have software that throttle low level charges like what you
> would get from a dynamo. I have been becoming a big fan of battery lights
> as well. They have so many lighting options and stay charged for a really
> long time. And battery packs are really easy to keep with you if you go
> longer. Easier than all of the wires and drag that a dynamo brings. BUT
> there is something to be said to always 100% having a light read to go if
> you need it.
>
> On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 7:55:19 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>
>> Let me be a bit of a contrarian on the lighting situation. Is a dyno hub
>> + phone charger worth the hassle?.. I am not sure.
>>
>> A dyno hub puts out a nominal 3 Watts. If you ride it for an hour, that's
>> 3 watt-hours worth of electricity. Let's say it gets split between the
>> light and your phone. If you ride continuously for 10 hours, that's about
>> 30 watt-hours. Let's say half is used to power the light, half to power the
>> phone...
>>
>> An iPhone 15 Pro has a 3,274 mA-hour / 12.70 watt-hr battery. So, half
>> the energy from the dynamo will charge the phone about once.
>>
>> How large of a battery would hold that much electricity? Thanks to modern
>> lithium ion polymer technology, a small power-bank like this one
>> 
>>  (about
>> the thickness of the iPhone but fits in the palm of your hand) can recharge
>> that phone ~1.5 times (implying it's got ~19 watt-hours of useful
>> capacity). A slightly larger one
>> 
>> (say about the size of the phone in a sturdy case) holds twice as much
>> energy, and even incorporates a charging plug. It's easy to chuck into a
>> bag, charge your phone off of it, use it as a wall plug in a hotel / on the
>> train, etc.  You don't even need to muck around with wiring on the bike or
>> a dyno hub at all. If you forego a dyno-powered light altogether, a battery
>> powered headlight will have 6+ hrs of its own battery life, and can be
>> charged off the portable battery.
>>
>> In case you don't want to muck around with wires and connectors and all
>> that. But if someone's gonna do it all for you and anodize it nice colors,
>> then by all means! :-)
>>
>> - Max "trying to unplug and plug it back in again" in A2
>>
>> On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 6:36:58 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Leah -
>>>
>>> I have been riding 40mm tires on my custom and 44mm tires on my
>>> Quickbeam and have noticed no difference in performance - only in comfort.
>>> I would imagine 48mm tires would be no worse in performance and slightly
>>> more comfortable.
>>>
>>> Regarding the light and charging your phone - I have an Edelux II on my
>>> Hubbuhubbuhz. Given that my wife cannot be without her phone, we have a
>>> Sinewave Revolution wired directly to the Edelux 

Re: [RBW] I have questions

[Jason Fuller]

The actual speed difference between a similar quality 48mm and a 42mm will 
be extremely small - I wouldn't sweat it at all! Probably like 0.1 mph 
difference. Most of the perceived difference is all in our heads, based on 
the squish-factor and the buzz they make on pavement, neither of which 
necessarily relate to speed. I would simply air them up to the same 
pressure you run on your 42mm tires for the speedy rides. The Gravel King 
is a reasonably quick tire, no concerns there to me. 

There is no definitive answer on the strap, since it's about risk 
tolerance, but with the higher load limit of the basket rack as well as the 
fact that most of the structure is welded with just that little adjustable 
bit at the bottom ... I would not run a strap with it. I don't think it 
would fall into the front tire the same way as the small racks do when they 
fail, plus it's less likely to fail in the first place. It's always a good 
idea to occasionally check that all the rack fixing bolts are tight, in any 
case. 

Sorry to hear about Second Winter, as indeed the cherry blossoms are upon 
us here in Vancouver! 

On Wednesday 20 March 2024 at 12:00:48 UTC-7 JohnS wrote:

> Will has Mark's alternate safety strap in this email news letter, scroll 
> down to "Mark's safety cable". Looks like a good solution since the cable 
> housing protects the bike frame from the cable.
>
> https://us7.campaign-archive.com/?u=ad1569fa93a2ab2374ead2fde=279bef4181
>
> As far as 650B tires go, I recommend Rene Herse Babyshoe Pass 42mm width 
> tire, extra light casing. They are great for mixed surface rides; road and 
> hard packed gravel or cinder such as a rail trail. As mentioned already, 
> they are not so good in mud where they can get squirmy and can loose 
> traction. I have them on my Crust Lightening Bolt canti which is my bike 
> for long rides and mixed surfaces. I have Gravel King SK tires on my gravel 
> bike. They are a very good tire and I use that bike for more challenging 
> gravel rides where the surface can be looser and the trails are more like 
> mountain bike single track.
>
> Good luck,
> JohnS
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 12:21:08 PM UTC-4 J wrote:
>
>> You don't say which Gravel King model you are using, but I see in your 
>> Philly post that you have Ultradynamico Cava tires on your bike. So maybe 
>> you run the file tread GK? Anyhow, I rode through 2 sets of 700x42 Gravel 
>> King SK on my old Sam Hillbourne before moving up to 700x50 which just 
>> barely fit. I thought I'd notice a big difference but it turned out not to 
>> be true, as long as I kept the air pressure up. I only have 650b bikes now, 
>> and don't ride Gravel King SK after discovering the Rene Herse file tread 
>> much smoother and faster "feeling". I've switched back and forth from 42 
>> and 48mm RH file treads as well as 42 Gran Bois and have settled on 48mm RH 
>> (Switchback Hill) which measures quite a bit over 48mm on my wheels. The 
>> 42mm tires gave the perception that I was faster but the strava data did 
>> not corroborate, and the 48mm have so much lovely float over gravel 
>> compared to anything narrower or with tooth, I figured why bother? YMMV but 
>> I think 48s won't be an issue. If my words sway you at all towards RH, just 
>> keep in mind that they are not great in wet conditions with steep descents 
>> combined with rim brakes. I learned this twice this fall, and kept RH 
>> knobbies on until a few days ago. 
>>
>> mysterious J
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 11:42:19 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones that used to be on my dirt road Matthews 
>>> were among the very fastest-rolling tires I've used, including various 
>>> "racing" tires and 2 extralight RH models. I'd say that the right 48 mm 
>>> tire will roll plenty fast. 
>>>
>>> I've not used any Gravel Kings.
>>>
>>> Patrick "it's not my tires that make me slow" Moore
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:10 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 ... Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace? I have 42 on all my 
 other bikes. Would 48s be slow? The ride is a 2 day event, 100 miles 
 total. 
 I’d like to keep the tires if I could, because they’re new and they are 
 fat 
 enough to also double as gravel tires, should I decide to do a gravel ride 
 again. But I do more road rides than anything else, and if those 48s will 
 cripple me, I’ll go back to 42s. What’s the consensus?

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Revisiting the Nitto 52f Basket Rack

[Jason Fuller]

I think the front end will feel a little less unwieldy with the smaller 
wheels, even if the technical wheel flop doesn't reflect this. but if it's 
a concern, my vote is to sell the rack and buy something that is only as 
big and heavy as you need it to be!  The Simworks Obento is a wonderful 
option, beautiful and perfect platform size for a 137 basket. 

On Thursday 14 March 2024 at 09:50:33 UTC-7 lconley wrote:

> Like this - includes the optional (free) extension:
> [image: Steerstoppers.jpg]
>
> Laing
>
> On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 11:40:40 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> @Julian,
>> The Steerstomper, a very interesting piece of ingenuity. However, you 
>> mention that you have a Clem that you use this Steerstomper. Do you own a 
>> Clem "H" and not a "L" CLem ?  I fall short of how the Steerstomper would 
>> work on a Clem "L" frame.
>>
>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>
>> On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 10:07:10 AM UTC-7 Julian Westerhout wrote:
>>
>> Leah, 
>>
>> Assuming that the issue is wheel flop when parking or loading the bike, 
>> consider the Steerstopper. https://steerstopper.com   Not cheap, but 
>> works great for its intended purpose. I have one on my Clem with a large 
>> front basket (used for commuting and everyday riding) and we have one on 
>> our Bilenky touring tandem. 
>>
>> Julian Westerhout
>> Bloomington, IL 
>>
>> On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 11:39:30 AM UTC-5 Lucky wrote:
>>
>> Aesthetically meh but how about a wheel stabilizer such as:
>> [image: dropped_out_86a3211e-bc6d-4631-8d90-bb7f4587c17e.JPG]
>> Wheel Stabilizer 
>> velo-orange.com 
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Mar 10, 2024, at 09:34, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>> 
>> Hi Friends,
>>
>> I’ve had a Nitto Basket Rack from Rivendell for a few years. I think it 
>> looks awesome, it’s dead useful, but it annoyed me that it was heavy and 
>> made my bars swing around on my mermaid Platy. But as I plan the build for 
>> my 50 cm purple Platy (which is taking a million years) I am considering 
>> putting the basket rack back into service. It pains me to see it sitting, 
>> and it’s so pretty and unique that I just want to give it another try. 
>> Maybe the 650b wheels will be less floppy with this rack? Maybe the 
>> smaller, lighter bike won’t seem as penalized by the heft of this rack? It 
>> would be such an easy experiment if it wasn’t for the dyno light/wiring 
>> that is affected by the decision. It’s not a matter of simply pulling the 
>> rack, because wire length, light mount, etc are affected and will not be an 
>> easy switch. My shop hates soldering and I certainly can’t do it. 
>>
>> I had started a thread long ago about this and a lot of people reported 
>> similar experiences. Now that some more years have gone by, I’m curious if 
>> opinions have changed, or if more people have these racks and would offer 
>> their opinions. There isn’t much in the way of reviews to read online. 
>> Maybe some here would offer theirs. If more folks are trying and loving 
>> their Nitto Basket Racks, I’ll be likely to install mine. 
>>
>> Meanwhile, this beautiful Platypus sits in my living room on the shelf, 
>> waiting for its parts to return from the anodizer. And, there’s fresh snow 
>> on the ground. But talking bikes will get me through!
>> Leah
>>
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>> 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>>
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[RBW] Re: Best Rivendell for pavement riding

[Jason Fuller]

I know this has been pretty well covered by now, but I'm finally going to 
add my two cents as well. I have ridden a few, but I think that anecdotes 
are only going to take you so far because of the wide range of preferences 
on the speed-comfort continuum. Based on your replies, I feel quite 
confident that both the Homer and the Hillborne would be perfectly suited: 
comfortable as heck, don't feel overbuilt, not super fast but not sluggish 
either. If you're fine with caliper brakes I can't find a good reason to 
push one over the other. My Hillborne has been with me for close to 4.5 
years now, I've ridden it 10,400km and counting, and it has been my 
favourite bike every day that I've owned it. I flip-flop between Albatross 
and Noodles and it's great with either. 

If you aren't buying right away, the upcoming Charlie H Gallop would be a 
worthy contestant too, I'm betting. I had the prototype and it was a 
compelling combination of the long wheelbase Rivs with the lighter tubing 
Rivs.  

On Saturday 2 March 2024 at 10:56:38 UTC-8 cfic...@gmail.com wrote:

> I really like the Rivendell approach to bikes and bike technology with the 
> idea of a more upright posture and a long wheelbase for long rides at a 
> comfortable pace, but it seems like the models all lean heavily to what 
> they call "country bikes."  I like to ride from my house, and that means 
> riding almost exclusively on smooth (mostly) pavement. Can anyone suggest 
> which models are better suited for road riding? Reading and comparing the 
> descriptions, it seems that the Homer might be a good choice, or possibly 
> the Appaloosa or Atlantis? Or the new Charlie Gallop, though I haven't 
> heard much about how it is supposed to ride? I tried a Roadini (which I 
> recently listed here and sold), but I think it was too big for me. I never 
> felt comfortable on it. Maybe I just needed it in the right size. 
>
> I would like the bike to work well with drop bars because of the multiple 
> hand positions and they're just what I'm used to. I tried a bike with swept 
> bars recently, but found I wasn't comfortable on longer rides. And when 
> riding on streets with minimal shoulder width, I felt like I was going to 
> catch the end of them on mailboxes or other obstacles. Maybe there's a 
> handlebar in Rivendell's catalog that works well for road riding?
>
> I'd appreciate any comments, especially if someone does this type of 
> riding and has tried several of these models. Thanks.
>
> Chuck
>

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[RBW] Re: Building a Quickbeam and wondering...

[Jason Fuller]

Any 110 BCD crank like Sugino or S!lver would do the trick nicely, perhaps 
a 38T and pant guard paired to a 17t (flat area) or 18t (hillier area) 
White Industries freewheel 

On Tuesday 5 March 2024 at 13:56:12 UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY wrote:

> I rode my quickbeam with a 69-70 gear inch drivetrain. I had a 16/19 white 
> industries freewheel but never ran it on the 19…
> -Kai
>
> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 4:06:32 PM UTC-5 David wrote:
>
>> Very creative. Personally looking for simpler, streamlined inspiration, 
>> but these are nice options you're running.
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 12:26:11 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I run a Riv Silver triple with 40/37/34 chainrings on my Quickbeam.  I 
>>> modified a rare and unusual Shimano cassette hub to fit 120 OLD.  On that I 
>>> run three Problem Solvers cassette cogs at 16/19/22.  As a result I have 
>>> three single speed "gears" with three chain positions, all with the same 
>>> wheel position
>>>
>>> 34x22 is my climbing gear
>>> 37x19 is my mellow cruising town gear
>>> 40x16 is my high gear
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 12:21:08 PM UTC-8 David wrote:
>>>
 What are your drivetrain specs? Cranks, chainrings, etc.  Simpleones, 
 too, if that's what you're riding. It appears Riv doesn't offer the 
 classic 
 single speed crankset anymore.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] The Official Introduction of RoadeoRosa

[Jason Fuller]

Even though I knew what to expect, more or less, I'm still rather blown 
away by the final result. It came together so perfectly. This is an iconic 
bike. 

On Thursday 22 February 2024 at 17:07:02 UTC-8 Bob Ehrenbeck wrote:

> Spectacular!
>
> Excellent choice of components, and the ~20 lbs. for the complete build is 
> impressive. And you can't go wrong with pink and black!
>
> Bob E
> Cranford, NJ
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 2:50:49 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Nobilette just put my garage photo out on his Instagram.  So now it's 
>> really out there.  I was going to let the Riv folks do the more public 
>> reveal, but whatev...
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 8:02:14 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I tried to politely ignore the tubing inquiry.  I didn't ask.  If I did 
>>> ask I'm sure they would tell me.  As far as I'm concerned it's the same as 
>>> the previously published numbers.  I dwell on a lot of things.  Tubing 
>>> diameters, butt thicknesses, butt lengths and transition zones are not 
>>> among those things I dwell upon.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 5:44:25 AM UTC-8 Robert Blunt wrote:
>>>
 Bill,
 This bike is gorgeous. I am not sure if you responded to the 
 inquiry about what tubeset was used but I would be interested to know. 
 This 
 thing is simply stunning and I am all about the pink bike . I had a pink 
 Bates with diadrant forks at one time which was super cool. Picture 
 attached (file might be too big.
 Best,
 Robert Blunt
 Pennington, NJ

 On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 11:27 PM Bill Lindsay  
 wrote:

> Here she is.  RoadeoRosa is complete
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53540567348/in/album-72177720313109003/
>
> Frame set: Nobilette built Rivendell Roadeo.  Cantilever posts.  
> Legolas fork crown.  Cane Creek 40 headset
>
> Wheelset:  HED Ardennes RA Black.  Stampede Pass Extralight tires.  
> TPU tubes.  12-27 Dura Ace 10sp cassette.  Tune skewers
>
> Drivetrain:  Rene Herse Crankset 46/30.  White Industries Ti 108mm 
> bottom bracket.  Look Keo Carbon Ceramic Pedals.  Dura Ace 7900 F Der, R 
> Der, Down tube shifters.  KMC chain
>
> Components:  Rene Herse cantilevers. Jagwire Elite cables and 
> housing.  Soba Noodle bars.  Nobilette stem.  Campagnolo Athena EPS brake 
> levers (electronics removed).  Dura Ace 7900 seat post.  Fizik Arione 00 
> saddle
>
> Accessories:  Rene Herse Fenders.  Arundel carbon H2O cages.  Rene 
> Herse pump.  Spurcycle Bell.  Rene Herse UD-2 front rack
>
> total weight 20.2lbs.  9.16kg
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] ISO: Trail Bike

[Jason Fuller]

I think most of us here would be happier on a Jones than a more traditional 
modern MTB, but we are definitely the outliers.  I agree with John's take, 
unless they too are someone who puts considerable value in doing things the 
simple, timeless way with lower maintenance and willingness to walk tougher 
sections of trail.  The Krampus / Karate Monkey are great bikes that 
satisfy both camps about as well as any bike could. Another one to scan for 
used is the Salsa Timberjack. 

On Wednesday 7 February 2024 at 07:11:06 UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> That Jones is an absolute no-brainer answer to the op question. That is a 
> screaming deal!
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 7, 2024, at 9:59 AM, Stephen  wrote:
>
> Jones bikes were being discussed in another thread, they have some pretty 
> steep discounts at the moment. If your brother fits either a small or large 
> (seems theyre out of mediums) he could get a SWB v2 for $1295.
>
>
>  https://jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-swb-v2-complete-bike/
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 9:46:49 AM UTC-5 John wrote:
>
>> Trigger warning: opinions regarding "modern mountain bikes."
>>
>> For $1400 I'd watch the local Craigslist and Facebook marketplace 
>> listings for a used hardtail from 2016ish or later. Something with 69 to 66 
>> (ish) HTA. 29er/700 tubeless ready wheels (27.5/650 is OK too) at least 
>> 2.3" wide. 1x drive train (46T or more big cog in the rear, clutched 
>> derailleur). Dropper post. Wide (650mm or more) handlebars. Short (<60mm) 
>> stem. Disc brakes (these will probably end up being hydraulic because 
>> that's become standard, although IMO cable actuated is fine for most 
>> people). That would cover riding a lot of mountain bike trails/singletrack 
>> in and around AZ as well as bikepacking routes on forest and jeep roads, 
>> doubletrack, etc.
>>
>> Modern mountain bikes are really good. The geo works extremely well with 
>> the longer top tubes, shorter stems and wider bars. Big wheels have amazing 
>> ability to roll over trail obstacles. With a little technique and proper 
>> setup these bikes are incredibly comfortable, safe and capable. These bikes 
>> also cost more than fully rigid mountain bikes, ATBs, hillibikes 
>> (sometimes), whatever you want to call them. They have suspension forks, 
>> dropper posts and possibly hydraulic brakes that need to be serviced and 
>> maintained (i.e. complicated)
>>
>> A Surly Karate Monkey or Krampus both fit the bill and could potentially 
>> be had for under $1400. A Sklar or Crust is pretty unlikely. Kona Honzo or 
>> a Marin are also good bang for the buck. Here's a list of budget hardtails 
>> The 
>> Radavist  
>> published recently. Any used model would be fine. I wouldn't be too worried 
>> about the brand, so long as it's a legitimate bike company and checks the 
>> boxes above. A mid tier Shimano or Sram group (or at least 
>> shifter/derailleur) wold be ideal. The new Microshift 1x drivetrains are 
>> cool too. 
>>
>> All that said, it may be worth honing in on what your brother means to do 
>> with the bike. I hate to say it but "trails and bikepacking" is pretty 
>> broad by today's standards, especially in AZ and the Four Corners region. 
>> Does he plan on riding rocky, steep, technical trails that require you to 
>> lift a front wheel or roll down obstacles? There can be lots of that in AZ. 
>> But if he has no intention of ever doing that, a fully rigid bike with 
>> biggish tires may fit the bill just fine!
>>
>> Laying it all on the line,
>> John in Minnesota
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell and Brooks B68 short film

[Jason Fuller]

I am glad to see the B68 back, it'll be my pick if I ever build a more 
upright bike than my current options - I tend to like a pretty upright-ish 
position but still like the bars just above saddle height. If I had the 
space I'd totally build up a Clem with the B68, some nice high bars, and 
some low gears for commuting and errands. 

I will echo that the Hillborne, even the newest upcoming batch, still 
retains a very sensibly short wheelbase. I want to say around 455mm stays 
in my size. Still feels plenty responsive while being much more comfortable 
than bikes with 415-425 stays. 

On Sunday 21 January 2024 at 15:54:09 UTC-8 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Jock, I like some like the Hillborne, Saluki, Bleriot. I did try the newer 
> longer Atlantis but it was not for me. I did want a Yves Gomez which is 
> also not very long but the seller did not want to sell to me. Just as well 
> as I found my much sought after Saluki. That is a beautiful bike. I hope 
> you find one.
> On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 3:15:06 PM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> I think it might just be…but at the least pleasantly harmless and sweet. 
>> And  they all having such a good time. 
>>
>> Tho try as I might the long-wheelbase bikes just don’t flip my switch. 
>> This got me going quite a while ago and I’m still chasing it. Rather odd I 
>> suppose. 
>>
>>
>> Jock
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 19, 2024 at 11:39 AM eddietheflay  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> All those guys wearing those hats look like a cult :).
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 7:32:07 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 [image: 
 VS--YouTube-BrooksEnglandTheB68isbackftRivendellBicycleWorks-0’45”.jpg]

 Brooks just released the 16mm film they made with the Rivendell staff 
 :0) Quite fun! 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBIryCWhgBc

 The saddles are now available from Brooks! 
 https://www.brooksengland.com/en_us/b68.html

 I wonder if this means we can buy a B68 directly from Rivendell now? 
 Seems like Riv was holding back for Brooks to launch the revived saddle. 

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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Intro Post // My 51cm Toyo Atlantis

[Jason Fuller]

Hey look who it is!  

I thought yer bike was a 53!  

On Sunday 21 January 2024 at 13:11:59 UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Beautiful, beautiful bike. I’ve been thinking that crank would be just 
> about perfect for an Roaduno.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 21, 2024, at 3:40 PM, Brenton Eastman  wrote:
>
> Looking very sweet. I love the twin bags front and rear. What size 
> Carradice are those?
>
>
> Hope you let that cola settle down before opening!
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> Josie! Good to see you here. As always, lovely build.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 11:46:56 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Very nice build -- top 5 Atlantis build, in my book -- and that tiny 
>>> rack is apparently capable of carrying immense loads.
>>>
>>> I can't see clearly from the photos, but it looks as if you have 
>>> knobbies under fenders. First, what are the tires? Secondly, what if any is 
>>> your front fender QR system, in case you pick up a stick? I am thinking of 
>>> getting a second, fat and knobby wheelset for one of my bikes and have 
>>> thought this would mean removing the fenders, but perhaps there are 
>>> alternatives.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 11:35 AM Josie  wrote:
>>>
 Hello amigos, 

 This is my first time posting up here - thanks for having me! This is 
 my 51cm Toyo Built Atlantis that I picked up about 2 years ago. I take a 
 lot of pictures while I ride, sometimes digital, often on film. I'm 
 looking 
 forward to seeing all of your builds and being apart of the Riv hype!

 [image: Rivendell Atlantis 2.jpg]
 [image: Rivendell Atlantis 1.jpg][image: Rivendell Atlantis 19.jpg]

 [image: Rivendell Atlantis 10.jpg][image: Rivendell Atlantis 15.jpg]
 Happy pedalling! ✌️ 

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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>>> services
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>>
>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>>
>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Goals for 2024 (will they be S.M.A.R.T. ?)

[Jason Fuller]

I like the Wandrer goals especially because it forces one to explore their 
surroundings thoroughly. I haven't set a goal specific to this, but I 
should consider it. It's probably my top pick for things that are magical 
about riding a bike.  It's my kind of competitive. 

The only goal I've explicitly set for myself is to bike-commute at least 
once every week for the year, excluding vacation weeks. I only need to go 
in twice a week, otherwise i'm wfh. It's about an hour's ride each way; not 
too long but long enough it takes a bit of commitment.  I typically end up 
in the 6000 - 7500 km range for the year. 

Another, less explicit goal is to get out for at least a few overnighter 
campouts on the bike. Three to six nights is reasonable. We have two dogs, 
one of which is quite reactive and a stress-ball, so we can't get 
dog-sitters nor take him with; this means I have to leave my partner to 
take care of both dogs (which need to be walked separately) so being away 
is a bit of an ask; hence the modest goal here. It's a balance. 

On Friday 12 January 2024 at 18:32:41 UTC-8 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> My goals for 2024 are to enjoy every ride I take and to break for coffee 
> outdoors on any ride over one hour in duration. We'll see if I can achieve 
> them. 
>
> Steve in Asheville
>
>
> On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 8:19:54 PM UTC-5 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> I'm planning on completing a 200k, 300k and 400k randonee in preparation 
>> for the SRCC Terrible Two (TT), where I am hoping to finish with at least 
>> an hour of time to spare.  I've only completed the TT with under 30 minutes 
>> to spare and am trying to pick up the pace for "fun", why not?
>>
>> Toshi
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 2024 Frame Schedule

[Jason Fuller]

Drew - indeed, quite a departure from the earier protos, and neat as well - 
but now that it's lugged it seems to overlap existing models a bit more 
other than the novel drop tube.  I wonder if it shares the upper HT lug as 
the new Susie (TT angle more flat due to HTA)

John - Yeah I agree, the Sam is stout enough for basically any touring 
maybe short of a dedicated world-tourer. I've never found the limit of mine 
either in terms of capacity, just tire clearance as you mention. 

On Friday 12 January 2024 at 10:19:37 UTC-8 John Bokman wrote:

> Jason, I concur with your assessment of the new Atlantis. I had always 
> pined for one, ever since the inception of the model. In fact, other than 
> the "LongLow", it was the first Riv I coveted. But, alas, things have 
> changed (Grant would say for the better).
>
> I finally purchased a Riv, the original 60cm model Sam, in 2009. I now 
> ride a size smaller Sam (the 58cm). I think it is from the 2017 era? At any 
> rate, I had a local builder install canti-bosses, like the original had. I 
> find it to be surprisingly stout. In fact, I regularly load it for bear, 
> and find it to be more bike than I want in some instances (uphill, without 
> a load, for example). I believe that the "new" Sam is more stout than the 
> original. In fact, it felt lighter in the hand to both myself and my 
> mechanic who had history with both of these bikes. Turns out the seat tube 
> had changed from 27.2 to 26.8. My mechanic thinks the thicker steat tube is 
> the answer to the increased heft. That, and the longer chainstays.
>
> All to say, I understand your want for an old school Atlantis in the 
> lineup. But, as someone who rides a larger framed 700c Sam (can't speak to 
> the 650B Sam), it's pretty right on for this purpose. The thing I think 
> that could be improved as a loaded tourer is the tire clearance. Being able 
> to fit a 2" tire under a fender would make it outstanding. I suppose this 
> would make it the de-facto "new Atlantis"? Just musing...
>
> John
>
> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 7:42:26 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Word is the Sam is unchanged from previous batches, geometry-wise, which 
>> is wonderful news as Sam is perfect.  No plans to pick up anything this 
>> year, in fact it's my fourth annual "no new bikes" resolution which has 
>> failed three times thus far. 
>>
>> I am a big fan of the new Susie's combination of specs, more stout than 
>> the old one (which was flexy to the extent it didn't make a good off-road 
>> tourer for most people) but quill stem. Dig that.
>>
>> I find the Appaloosa to be a lot better on the eyes than the modern 
>> Atlantis and I struggle to understand why since they're nearly the same. In 
>> my dream scenario, the Atlantis would go backwards slightly to bit a little 
>> more roadish in geometry, something similar to the Sam, but with the 
>> additional stoutness and tire clearance. I feel like this more road-focused 
>> true touring bike is currently missing in the lineup, and still falls 
>> within modern Riv sensibilities. Of course, I have no say in this, but a 
>> guy can dream. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 13:03:05 UTC-8 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Saw this in the last email:
>>>
>>>
>>>- February - Clems
>>>- March - Lugged Susies - kind of a new model
>>>- April - Roaduno bikes and frames - new model
>>>- May - Sam Hillbornes
>>>- June - Appaloosas
>>>- July - Platypus bikes and frames
>>>- August - Charlie Gallop, nu model, bikes and frames, more info 
>>>later
>>>- September - Roadini
>>>
>>> Been waiting to pick up a Sam for a lng time. Anyone else have plans 
>>> to pick up a new frame in 2024? 
>>>
>>> Also, Looks like the foreboding about the Atlantis going into retirement 
>>> is holding true with more appaloosas coming in the summer. Anyone out there 
>>> still pining for that turquoise dream? 
>>>
>>> - Drew  
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 2024 Frame Schedule

[Jason Fuller]

Yeah!  Despite following the Charlie development perhaps more closely than 
anyone outside Riv HQ for the longest time, it's changed a bunch and I've 
kind of lost the pulse on what makes it unique in the lineup. I used to 
think it was going to be the evolution of the Roadini but it seems to be 
something else. Regardless I am betting it'll be a quick bike as the name 
implies, perhaps with just a little more embedded versatility compared to 
the Roadini?  


On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 20:25:19 UTC-8 rockthr...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am intrigued by the Charlie Gallop. The random photos I’ve seen so far 
> make it look like a road, path, , rail trail cruiser that I need.
>
> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 10:17:49 PM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Jason, I 100% agree with you on the Joe vs. Atlantis, and the void in 
>> Riv’s lineup for a classic-styled roadish tourer (which is why I think so 
>> many folks are searching for early era Atlantis frames these days - I’m 
>> glad to have found one this past year). I’m not a fan of what the Atlantis 
>> has evolved into, but wouldn’t rule out an Appaloosa in my near future.
>>
>> - Brian
>> Lex Ky
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2024, at 10:42 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>> Word is the Sam is unchanged from previous batches, geometry-wise, which 
>> is wonderful news as Sam is perfect.  No plans to pick up anything this 
>> year, in fact it's my fourth annual "no new bikes" resolution which has 
>> failed three times thus far. 
>>
>>
>>
>> I am a big fan of the new Susie's combination of specs, more stout than 
>> the old one (which was flexy to the extent it didn't make a good off-road 
>> tourer for most people) but quill stem. Dig that.
>>
>> I find the Appaloosa to be a lot better on the eyes than the modern 
>> Atlantis and I struggle to understand why since they're nearly the same. In 
>> my dream scenario, the Atlantis would go backwards slightly to bit a little 
>> more roadish in geometry, something similar to the Sam, but with the 
>> additional stoutness and tire clearance. I feel like this more road-focused 
>> true touring bike is currently missing in the lineup, and still falls 
>> within modern Riv sensibilities. Of course, I have no say in this, but a 
>> guy can dream. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 13:03:05 UTC-8 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Saw this in the last email:
>>>
>>>
>>>- February - Clems
>>>- March - Lugged Susies - kind of a new model
>>>- April - Roaduno bikes and frames - new model
>>>- May - Sam Hillbornes
>>>- June - Appaloosas
>>>- July - Platypus bikes and frames
>>>- August - Charlie Gallop, nu model, bikes and frames, more info 
>>>later
>>>- September - Roadini
>>>
>>> Been waiting to pick up a Sam for a lng time. Anyone else have plans 
>>> to pick up a new frame in 2024? 
>>>
>>> Also, Looks like the foreboding about the Atlantis going into retirement 
>>> is holding true with more appaloosas coming in the summer. Anyone out there 
>>> still pining for that turquoise dream? 
>>>
>>> - Drew  
>>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a38fad97-1042-464c-8b97-58414652df8fn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a38fad97-1042-464c-8b97-58414652df8fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 2024 Frame Schedule

[Jason Fuller]

Word is the Sam is unchanged from previous batches, geometry-wise, which is 
wonderful news as Sam is perfect.  No plans to pick up anything this year, 
in fact it's my fourth annual "no new bikes" resolution which has failed 
three times thus far. 

I am a big fan of the new Susie's combination of specs, more stout than the 
old one (which was flexy to the extent it didn't make a good off-road 
tourer for most people) but quill stem. Dig that.

I find the Appaloosa to be a lot better on the eyes than the modern 
Atlantis and I struggle to understand why since they're nearly the same. In 
my dream scenario, the Atlantis would go backwards slightly to bit a little 
more roadish in geometry, something similar to the Sam, but with the 
additional stoutness and tire clearance. I feel like this more road-focused 
true touring bike is currently missing in the lineup, and still falls 
within modern Riv sensibilities. Of course, I have no say in this, but a 
guy can dream. 

   



On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 13:03:05 UTC-8 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Saw this in the last email:
>
>
>- February - Clems
>- March - Lugged Susies - kind of a new model
>- April - Roaduno bikes and frames - new model
>- May - Sam Hillbornes
>- June - Appaloosas
>- July - Platypus bikes and frames
>- August - Charlie Gallop, nu model, bikes and frames, more info later
>- September - Roadini
>
> Been waiting to pick up a Sam for a lng time. Anyone else have plans 
> to pick up a new frame in 2024? 
>
> Also, Looks like the foreboding about the Atlantis going into retirement 
> is holding true with more appaloosas coming in the summer. Anyone out there 
> still pining for that turquoise dream? 
>
> - Drew  
>

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Re: [RBW] Advantages of triple drivetrains (VO post)

[Jason Fuller]

Footnote:  I do love the 10t jump compared to the 14-16t also, but with the 
aforementioned gears I don't front shift often enough that it's a big 
deal.  For 9s I would run what I already mentioned, but if going to 11s I 
would bump up to a 11-42 cassette, now that the jumps are reasonable, and 
switch to a closer ratio front.  42-30 probably. This would mean not being 
able to run as short of a spindle though, so big-big combo might become a 
bit more cross-chainy 

On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 19:10:35 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Admittedly I skimmed (at best) this rather lengthy thread, but wanted to 
> chime in and agree with these points which have undoubtedly been made: 
>
> 1. A typical triple's benefit is that it usually means a lot less front 
> shifting compared to a double, even though that's a bit counter-intuitive. 
> A triple's middle ring is good for 90% of riding, whereas with a 'standard' 
> double you're often crossing the small/big ring threshold. 
>
> 2. A non-standard double, where the outer ring is sized smaller so that it 
> is not too much bigger than the triple's middle, paired with a sufficiently 
> large big cog out back, is the best of both worlds for everyone except 
> those who want to be able to low-cadence pedal down hills.  
>
> I am generally totally happy with 38/24 to 11-34. For a more road-focused 
> bike I can push it to 42-26 or 42-28 and still stay in the big ring for all 
> but longer hills.  The key to this, IMO, is square taper cranks where you 
> can take advantage of the added chainstay clearance that small rings 
> affords, and run a shorter spindle. This brings the rings inboard so that 
> the big ring's chainline is about the same as a triple's middle ring would 
> be 
>
>
> On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 17:23:56 UTC-8 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> So far I 've not noted anyone else posting my particular combination of 
>> integers; 44-34-24 on a Velocity Orange triple. 
>> It started out with a 48t big ring, but my late 90s XT rear derailleur 
>> couldn't quite deal with the 48x36 cross chained combination. I'm smart 
>> just enough to know that I'm dumb enough to have eventually shifted into 
>> that combo.  You could say I had more love for the XT RD than I did for 
>> the 48t ring. I replaced the ring with an inexpensive Origin 8  thinking . 
>>  I wouldn't use it much anyway.
>>
>> Turns out I really like the 10t increments on the front end.   Shifting 
>> between the 3 rings with the chain running in the middle cogs yields steps 
>> of ~ 10 gear inches. Over the right terrain I've been able to amuse myself 
>> by using only the front derailleur. 
>>
>> Steve  
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 12:29:16 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> "Can those Ultegra triples be found in a square taper or are they all 
>>> Octalink?"
>>>
>>> All Octalink. The previous gen 7/8-spd era Ultegra square taper (600 
>>> tri-color) were all doubles, if you search long and hard you can find 105 
>>> triples from that period but I don't think many were produced. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 7:05:47 AM UTC-8 Tim Bantham wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can those Ultegra triples be found in a square taper or are they all 
>>>> Octalink?
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 8:23:10 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ultegra 52x42x30 makes a nice compact double.  Just remove the 52 
>>>>> (free) and put a guard in its place ($15).  Now you've got a 42x30 with 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> ability to put a smaller ring on the 74 bcd if need be.  The skeleton key 
>>>>> is indeed a useful FD.  
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 4:42:09 PM UTC-8 Will M wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks!  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I swapped out an Ultegra 52x42x30 for a RBW/Silver 42x28 and never 
>>>>>> looked back.  (Yes, that little Microshift "skeleton key" front derailer 
>>>>>> is 
>>>>>> brilliant).  And my Yuba cargo bike got the RBW/Silver 38x24 because the 
>>>>>> 44x34x24 offered no advantages for a bike that is 100% about 
>>>>>> transporting 
>>>>>> "cargo" (kids) in a city.  I get the appeal of 1X's, but some of the 
>>>>>> analog 
>>>>>> Yuba long-w

Re: [RBW] Re: New Jewelry for my Platypus

[Jason Fuller]

SO COOL! I can't wait to see it all installed. Really love the color. 

On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 17:56:52 UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Big time APPROVE?! I have seen APPROVE before from Bill Lindsay but I 
> don’t think there has been Big time APPROVE. 
>
> This is an honor! I should get a tee shirt made. A tattoo. Something.
> ♥️
> Leah
>
> On Jan 11, 2024, at 8:50 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
> That's very good stuff right there.  Big time APPROVE
>
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 5:28:30 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I have never had Paul anything. I’ve had whatever brakes and levers came 
>> with my bikes and didn’t think any more about it. I did get my VO brake 
>> levers anodized, but that batch of rose pink ano faded freakishly fast and 
>> everything was silver 4 months later. 
>>
>> But I’m giving it another chance. Everyone talks about Paul, and Paul 
>> sometimes offers their parts in pretty, anodized colors, but currently, 
>> they do not. I emailed the company, asking if they happened to have any of 
>> their pink levers laying around that they would be willing to sell me. I 
>> got an email back from Paul, like THE Paul, who directed me to an employee 
>> I won’t name here. He and I got in contact and he was so fun, right from 
>> the start. We chatted and he looked at my bikes (I sent him my pics via 
>> email) and we made a plan. 
>>
>> We colored it all. 
>>
>> The bolts, the brake body, the levers, the barrel adjustors ALL of it. 
>>
>> The parts came in 3 boxes, plus one extra little envelope. The envelope 
>> had a small personalized gift from my new friend at Paul, just because, 
>> with a handwritten note in the prettiest handwriting I’ve ever seen. Swoon! 
>> I opened the first box and it was wrapped like origami inside. I uncovered 
>> the first gorgeous pieces and the breath left my body. So beautiful. 
>> Quality even a novice can’t miss. Just what I wanted. Rich, rose color. 
>>
>> I would need to be with bike people to get the full joy out of this 
>> experience. My bike shop knows about Paul Components. A blizzard is on its 
>> way to Michigan and I knew my shop would not be busy. I put the pieces back 
>> in the box, loaded the boxes and my bike in the van and drove to the shop. 
>> I came in and there were 4 mechanics and zero customers. “Guys!” I said, “I 
>> have a fun project for us to do, and I can’t do it without you! Who wants 
>> to see what is in these boxes?” 
>>
>> So there we were on company time, hovering over these immaculate little 
>> parcels, oohing and aahhing. There was extra swag in there, stuff I had 
>> never seen. 
>>
>> “What’s this?” I asked, holding up a flat, wooden thing with Paul 
>> emblems. 
>>
>> “It’s a carpenter’s pencil,” said the mechanic. I gave it to him.
>>
>> I left the bike with them and I should have it in the next couple/few 
>> days, depending on how long the blizzard rages for. Not that I’ll get to 
>> ride and try those beautiful Paul parts out; we are getting up to a foot of 
>> snow! For now they are only a visual treat. I can’t even imagine how 
>> enamored I will be when I get to actually USE the brakes. 
>>
>> And what nice people. I was not expecting them to be so personable! I 
>> have heard they are a small operation, but they *are* famous in their 
>> own right - celebrity machinists, really - yet so kind to a layperson like 
>> me.
>>
>> Here’s the photo I got before the parts shipped. “Whatcha think?” he 
>> asked. 
>>
>> Oh, he knew. He knew he knocked it straight outta the park.
>>
>> Leah
>>
>>  
>>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Advantages of triple drivetrains (VO post)

[Jason Fuller]

Admittedly I skimmed (at best) this rather lengthy thread, but wanted to 
chime in and agree with these points which have undoubtedly been made: 

1. A typical triple's benefit is that it usually means a lot less front 
shifting compared to a double, even though that's a bit counter-intuitive. 
A triple's middle ring is good for 90% of riding, whereas with a 'standard' 
double you're often crossing the small/big ring threshold. 

2. A non-standard double, where the outer ring is sized smaller so that it 
is not too much bigger than the triple's middle, paired with a sufficiently 
large big cog out back, is the best of both worlds for everyone except 
those who want to be able to low-cadence pedal down hills.  

I am generally totally happy with 38/24 to 11-34. For a more road-focused 
bike I can push it to 42-26 or 42-28 and still stay in the big ring for all 
but longer hills.  The key to this, IMO, is square taper cranks where you 
can take advantage of the added chainstay clearance that small rings 
affords, and run a shorter spindle. This brings the rings inboard so that 
the big ring's chainline is about the same as a triple's middle ring would 
be 


On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 17:23:56 UTC-8 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> So far I 've not noted anyone else posting my particular combination of 
> integers; 44-34-24 on a Velocity Orange triple. 
> It started out with a 48t big ring, but my late 90s XT rear derailleur 
> couldn't quite deal with the 48x36 cross chained combination. I'm smart 
> just enough to know that I'm dumb enough to have eventually shifted into 
> that combo.  You could say I had more love for the XT RD than I did for 
> the 48t ring. I replaced the ring with an inexpensive Origin 8  thinking . 
>  I wouldn't use it much anyway.
>
> Turns out I really like the 10t increments on the front end.   Shifting 
> between the 3 rings with the chain running in the middle cogs yields steps 
> of ~ 10 gear inches. Over the right terrain I've been able to amuse myself 
> by using only the front derailleur. 
>
> Steve  
>
>
> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 12:29:16 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> "Can those Ultegra triples be found in a square taper or are they all 
>> Octalink?"
>>
>> All Octalink. The previous gen 7/8-spd era Ultegra square taper (600 
>> tri-color) were all doubles, if you search long and hard you can find 105 
>> triples from that period but I don't think many were produced. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 7:05:47 AM UTC-8 Tim Bantham wrote:
>>
>>> Can those Ultegra triples be found in a square taper or are they all 
>>> Octalink?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 8:23:10 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Ultegra 52x42x30 makes a nice compact double.  Just remove the 52 
 (free) and put a guard in its place ($15).  Now you've got a 42x30 with 
 the 
 ability to put a smaller ring on the 74 bcd if need be.  The skeleton key 
 is indeed a useful FD.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 4:42:09 PM UTC-8 Will M wrote:

> Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks!  
>
> I swapped out an Ultegra 52x42x30 for a RBW/Silver 42x28 and never 
> looked back.  (Yes, that little Microshift "skeleton key" front derailer 
> is 
> brilliant).  And my Yuba cargo bike got the RBW/Silver 38x24 because the 
> 44x34x24 offered no advantages for a bike that is 100% about transporting 
> "cargo" (kids) in a city.  I get the appeal of 1X's, but some of the 
> analog 
> Yuba long-wheelbase cargo bikes that were spec'ed as 1X got a reputation 
> for throwing chains under load.  Never understood why. 
>
> @ Ron Mc: Love the half-step setup.  Love! Have you seen John 
> Schubert's article "Half Step: The Gearing Choice for the Retrogrouch 
> "?
>  
> (Adventure Cyclist magazine, March 2002)  My bucket list includes a 1983 
> Specialized Sequoia with this drivetrain. :-)  
>
> Cheers,
> Will 
> NYC
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:43:48 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> I did that for years with 48/38/28 triples and close ratio (13-21 
>> commuting, 12-19 gofast) 7 speed drivetrains. It worked well, with most 
>> riding in the middle ring. ?This ws
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 5:02 PM Andrew Turner  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love a triple paired with an 8 speed or less corncob cassette 
>>> matched to downtube shifters. That's an amazing roadie configuration 
>>> right 
>>> there. Not to mention bomb proof. But I think what rides equally as 
>>> nice is 
>>> 11 speed 2x setups with a wide range cassette in the rear. The choice 
>>> for 
>>> me comes down to looks and vanity. Ron Mc's teaser drivetrain pic is 
>>> really 
>>> scratching an 

Re: [RBW] Why do some bikes just feel consistently faster?

[Jason Fuller]

My two hypotheses are 1) the frame stiffness is perfectly matched to your 
power output at optimal cadence, so you do get that energy return known as 
planing and/or 2) the fit is perfectly matched to your biomechanics, which 
I believe can be sensitive enough that even a bike with similar numbers 
might be ever-so-slightly off and it actually has a pretty adverse effect 
on your output.  But these are just hypotheses, in reality I have no idea!  
It does seem that there is a certain 'magic' that cannot be explained by 
bike weight or aerodynamics.  

On Saturday 6 January 2024 at 11:11:13 UTC-8 philip@gmail.com wrote:

> The bikes you like the most ride the fastest.
>
> That’s just science!
>
> P. W.
> ~
> (917) 514-2207
> ~
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 28, 2023, at 2:35 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
>
> This is hardly a new question for me or for others, but it is a question 
> that strikes me anew when I ride the 1999 Joe Starck and find, once again 
> as always in getting on for 25 years of ownership that *it's just easier 
> to maintain speed and cadence in given conditions in given gears,* this 
> both on the flats and on hills. I remember being struck by this, again at 
> the start of each ride on it, in the first years of ownership.
>
> Tires make a difference, tho' it felt this way with 571 X 23 mm Conti 
> Grands Prix and Michelin Pro Races and with 559 X 23 mm Specialized Turbos; 
> with the slightly wider (27.19 mm rear at 60 psi and 27.49 mm front at 55 
> psi on my 19 mm OW rims) and even lighter and more supple Elk Passes it 
> feels even faster and *smoother.* 
>
> BTW, I wholly discountenance the opinion that harshness or vibration makes 
> riders think they're going fast. At least, perhaps some people do that, but 
> I've always associated harshness with slowness and smoothness with speed. 
> But again, the '99 has always felt *smooth* and *fast.*
>
> What provoked this perennial question was my very pleasant mid-afternoon 
> ride today. My route included about 1 mile of steep hill starting at 
> Broadway and, feeling tired and sluggish and being old I considered 
> swapping the Phil 17/19Dingle wheel (76" and 68") with the SA TF wheel (76" 
> and 57" underdrive), but didn't want the bother and decided I'd just walk 
> if necessary.
>
> I did plan to move the chain to the 19 t/68" gear once I got downtown, but 
> didn't do this, either. Winds variable up to about 7-8 mph.
>
> I took it easy but found myself following some youngster on a thin-tire 
> 700C derailleur hybrid for about 8 miles; I finally caught up to him at the 
> first light on Coal and followed him up the climb. I think he was a UNM 
> student and at least 45 years younger than I, and he put a few yards on me 
> up the hill spinning in a low gear but I was surprised once again (this is 
> the point, don't mind my meandering) at *how well and easily* the bike 
> climbs.
>
> ???
>
> Planing? The frame is not as over-beefy as the 2003 Goodrich custom but 
> it's not as light and certainly has fatter tubes than the wonderful 
> thinwall 531 normal gauge 2020 Matthews replacement of the 2003.
>
> Weight? With the Phil it's right at 18 lb without bottle or bag versus ~28 
> for the Matthews road with F+R racks, fenders, lights, and SA 3 speed hub, 
> and versus the 30-31 lb of the Matthews road-bike-for-dirt with 2X10 
> derailleur drivetrain, 50 mm tires, 2X gauge fenders, dynamo lighting, and 
> rear rack. But it feels fast on the flats at steady-state cruising. I 
> daresay that the weight makes a difference on hills, but I *don't* think 
> that weight is the only reason.
>
> I know that some bikes just fit and feel "perfect," and this is one of 
> them (tho' the 2 Matthewses fit just about the same since I built them up 
> to do so). That old Herse was a tank that 2 earlier owners sold for cheap 
> but for me it rode "fast" if not as fast as the 1999 Joe Starck.
>
> To end this meandering: since so much of my riding is either errands 
> requiring bags or dirt requiring fat tires the 1999 gets ridden less than 
> it otherwise would, but if I had to get ride of all bikes but one, I'd 
> happily keep this and build 1 or 2 alternative wheelsets (geared/skinny, 
> geared/fattish) and buy a bit selection of strap-on saddlebags from repair 
> kit only to Sackville Medium.
>
> I've owned 5 Rivendells including 3 customs and this one is the last (tho' 
> the 2020 Matthews is a copy of the 2003).
>
> Sorry, can't resist posting again:
>
> 
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most 

[RBW] Re: 650 b touring tire recommendation

[Jason Fuller]

It's much harder to find good options in 38mm vs. 42mm, unfortunately.  
Neither size is as popular as I'd like though! 

The Rene Herse Babyshoe in endurance casing measures a little smaller than 
in lighter casings; about 39.5mm on A23s for me. I will take your word that 
this is too large for the rear, but if there's a chance it'll fit, it's a 
good option:  I find the endurance casing to be very robust, tougher than a 
lot of casings that flaunt their flat protection.

Another option I can suggest is the Teravail Cannonball 650x40 in 'Durable' 
casing, very tough tire with a fast rolling tread.  I'm not sure what it 
actually measures out to; might fit both ends of your bike but I can't put 
money on that

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[RBW] Re: New Year's Day, NBD!

[Jason Fuller]

I never thought I'd see the day that Leah parted with the blue Clem, but I 
absolutely would have predicted that if it happened, Joe would buy it!  :D

It's fun to watch its journey though different hands, in different places, 
all with the common goal of making fond memories aboard the common bike. 
Maybe it'll end up with me next?  Wouldn't be the first time I bought a 
bike from Joe ... 

On Wednesday 3 January 2024 at 07:49:09 UTC-8 rsb...@msn.com wrote:

> [image: hillborne at dam.JPG]
> Took a new years day ride on my Hillborne. Went up to Conowingo dam and 
> back along the Susquehanna river. 
> This sign was new so I thought I would get a photo. Watch out for vultures.
>
> On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 8:59:27 AM UTC-5 Kim H. wrote:
>
>> @Joe,
>> I think the close-up photo makes it looks bigger than it is.  I have 57mm 
>> tires on my 52cm, but they appear to be smaller in width. You are going to 
>> love the ride and feel of the elongated chain stays and bike, 80 inches 
>> worth. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel.
>>
>> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 10:06:32 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Leah: It's a wonderful bike whose journey I've followed for years, it 
>> feels like an old friend arrived at my doorstep. Thanks so much!
>>
>> Kim: It's a 52, it just looks huge in the photos with 42mm tires. But 
>> it's a loong 52, I've owned shorter recumbents! 
>>
>> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:27:53 PM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Congratulations Joe on your NBD on New Year's Day !  
>>
>> The RBW Blue is such a fantastic color. She is a beauty !  I am sure that 
>> you are, if not already have fallen in love with it. Every time I walk by 
>> mine here in my home,  a 52cm Blue Clem, I admire it every time. I am very 
>> delighted to own one. 
>>
>> What size is it ?  59cm ? ..or ?
>>
>> I am certain that you will find it a real fun bike on and off road.
>>
>> I'm looking forward to your periodical ride reports in and around Clear 
>> Lake.
>>
>> Long my you ride with smiles and joy in your heart.
>>
>> All my best,
>> Kim Hetzel.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:03:48 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Surprise! And happy NBD. You really know how to ring in the new year. 
>> From NYC, to Las Vegas, to Michigan and now to California this bike has 
>> lived quite a life and doesn’t look any worse for the wear, I’d say.
>>
>> Enjoy and put some marks on that thing.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 11:40:17 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Remember Leah's lovely shimmery blue Clem L? Now it's MY lovely shimmery 
>> blue Clem L! This is pre-racked and bagged and all that (and there's an 
>> errant black brake cable cuz I'm waiting for a long gray one) but I wanted 
>> to show off my new-to-me bike. It's wonderful, I love it 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>> Lake County CA
>>
>> [image: Screenshot_20240101_203513.jpg][image: 
>> Screenshot_20240101_203538.jpg]
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Jason Fuller]

Nice work, Bill! Maybe it's high time for a 2024 plans and goals thread. 
I'm not so much about the resolutions, but working towards some healthy and 
joyful goals is a great thing.  

On Thursday 4 January 2024 at 17:16:41 UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> A couple weeks back I said:
>
> "The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
> will be on a derailleurless bike."
>
> When I state a goal, I feel committed, even if the RBW Group isn't 
> expending energy to hold me accountable, there is accountability when I 
> type it out.  Anyhow, I got a start on the above today with my first summit 
> of Mount Diablo for 2024.  I did it on my current stripped down road bike, 
> my Black Mountain Cycles Road.  I picked today to avoid the pockets of rain 
> that are hitting us with some regularity.  It was sunny and cool, but not 
> cold.  One down, four to go.  Highlights included a rider on a 2TT 
> Hillborne with Albatross bars.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
>> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
>> paths have crossed lately.  
>>
>> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>>
>> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
>> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
>> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
>> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
>> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>>>
>>> I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:
>>>
 All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
 all the help. Thank you!

 On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
>> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
>> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs 
>> ride 
>> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
>> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
>> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. 
>> On 
>> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% 
>> grade, 
>> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
>> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
>> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you 
>> can 
>> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>>
>>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
>>> list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding 
>>> on 
>>> these roads.  
>>>
>>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
>>> with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
>>> dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or 
>>> even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But 
>>> as 
>>> mentioned already, only you know what works for you.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] "Grant hates toe clips."

[Jason Fuller]

I used SPD's when I raced XC, but never enjoyed them.  I ride reasonably 
long distances (50 to 130 miles) and while I'm sure I'm losing a little bit 
of oomph on the climbs, my knees are much happier when I can move my foot 
around at will.  I prefer flats for riding on slippery or sketchy stuff, 
which I tend to do just about every ride, and really appreciate being able 
to wear any shoe - most of my riding pals are struggling to keep their toes 
warm over winter, limited by their cycling shoes, though there are some 
good winter shoes out there these days. 

I've thought about giving them a try again, but I've realized there's just 
no reason to for me - I don't care about the marginal gains and I would 
feel limited with how I like to ride 

On Monday 25 December 2023 at 12:08:57 UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thinking out loud: if I ever get a replacement frame for the Monocog, 
> which I use for most of time when I run the dog, I may well try Urbans or 
> the wonderful value-for-money GR-1s, plus MKS X-deep clips and loose straps 
> (with toe clip buttons and strap pads, of course, just for style). I like 
> the GR-1s so much that some years ago I tried Urbans and then went back to 
> the GR-1s because I liked their flip-tab better.
>
> To make the inevitably rough GR-1s buttery (or at least relatively) 
> smooth: upend in vise, dribble in plenty of Phil Tenacious oil, leave for 
> 24 hours, wipe down, install, and ride them a lot. I *think* I've 
> actually overhauled the wee bearings but at $35 on Amazon there's almost no 
> point, and they'll outlast my use.
>
> On Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 1:02 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> If I ever build a dedicated shopping bike I think I'll try no-retention 
>> again, but this time without pinned pedals; it was the pins that annoyed me 
>> when I tried platforms a couple of years ago because they were always 
>> holding the shoe (and I bought a nice pair of platform cycling shoes) in 
>> the wrong places and made it hard to shift the soles to the right places. 
>> But something like MKS Urbans, perhaps with half clips, sounds very likely.
>>
>> I tend to mash gears, which means I often will pull back or up -- briefly 
>> -- on inclines or when turning into winds; retention has obvious advantages 
>> here and, in fact, the reason I went back to SPDs after a couple of years 
>> commuting with clips and straps but no cleats on my rubber soled 
>> Timberlands and Basses and so on was that I was always pulling the shoes 
>> out of the straps or, if the straps were tight, pulling my feet out of the 
>> shoes. 
>>
>> But I agree, for convenience there's nothing like a comfortable, sturdy 
>> street shoe with sufficiently stiff or thick sole and sufficiently wide and 
>> flat pedal for all-round convenience. I do find that SPDs, even on my road 
>> bike, allow me the next best thing, since I can walk pretty easily in my 
>> several pairs of mtb SPD shoes. Since I follow the Chinese custom 
>> (inherited from Chin/Am ex-wife) of not wearing shoes indoors (ick!!) it's 
>> almost as easy to slip into SPDs as into street shoes when I go out for a 
>> ride.
>>
>>  -- Speaking of which, recall the time 3-4 years ago when I had to hike 
>> home ~5 miles in my SPD shoes after a sharp stick poked a big hole in y 
>> rear tubless tire (and all my plugs just disappeared into the cavity; later 
>> got some *big* plugs). I made it, but man, decent civvie shoes would 
>> have been more comfortable.
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: 1st world commuting dilemma

[Jason Fuller]

I'm late the conversation but I do this math all the time for my own 
endless cycle of optimization. What I've come to appreciate lately is that 
if I have less bikes, then a) each bike gets used proportionally more and 
I've wrung more 'worth' out of it in the event it were ever stolen and b) 
the money saved by having less bikes is basically a piggy bank towards a 
new bike if ever it were to happen.  Similar to you, by the time I've 
spec'd even a "beater" to my tastes, it's a bit of an investment as I can't 
live without dynamo and a good set of fenders and racks. 

I also honestly think the Surly is a bigger thief magnet than a Rivendell, 
because Surly is a more well-known name as being fairly valuable bikes. 
Rivs just look like classic bikes to the untrained eye, generally. 

Better than having a purpose built bike for locking up is to have a 
well-protected bike when you do lock up IMO.  Finding a spot that lacks 
privacy for a would-be thief is #1 for me, such as in front of a coffee 
shop or restaurant that'll be open the whole time it's there. Then two 
locks, plus using theft-resistant products like Hexlox to secure the 
wheels, saddle, and stem. 

On Thursday 7 December 2023 at 06:49:30 UTC-8 Josh C wrote:

> Hello all. I find myself trying to make a decision regarding which bike to 
> use as my commuter. 
>
> Background: I live in Indianapolis and ride my bike for a good chunk of my 
> daily needs. I have a short commute to work which is done on bike 90% of 
> the time. I usually work from 5:20-ish am to about 6:30 pm 3-4 days a week. 
> The only days I don't ride in are if it's pouring rain when I get up, or 
> the snow is too deep to get through. I could ride in the rain, and don't 
> mind it on the way home, but already get up at 4:30 am and simply don't 
> have time to change or mess with it on work days. I'm commuting on a 
> Rohloff-equipped Surly Ogre currently and have put less than 1K miles on my 
> car this year. We live near downtown and are a short ride to many things 
> that we like to do. We often ride to ball games, art exhibits, concerts, 
> dinners, drinks...you name it.  
>
> Dilemma: Now I warned you that this is a 1st world problem, but here goes. 
> I have several Riv's and they are my favorite bikes to ride but I find 
> myself on the Ogre more often than any other bike. I may accumulate more 
> miles on my Rivs, as I ride a Toyo Atlantis as my all-road bike, but I do 
> way more trips on the Surly. For some reason, I simply feel more 
> comfortable locking up the Surly for 13 hours or outside of a music venue 
> downtown than I do a Rivendell. In my mind, the Riv seems like more of a 
> target for would-be thieves than the Surly and thus it gets most of the 
> day-to-day duty. The thing is that I enjoy riding a Rivendell much more 
> than the Surly and, after giving this some thought, had decided to buy a 
> Clem when this latest batch of completes was released, and start using it 
> for my daily driver. 
>
> However, after doing some math in my head, and realizing that I'd likely 
> change a lot of the Clem complete build, I am thinking that I'd might as 
> well ride one of the Rivs that I currently own. By the time I get the Clem 
> to my door, I've spent $2500 with shipping and tax. I'd change the bars, 
> add a saddle, add fenders, have the front wheel rebuilt with a dyno hub, 
> and so on. I'd easily be into it for $3K or more. My Surly has a $1400 rear 
> hub and is easily over the $3K mark. 
>
> I am lucky enough to have two Rivendell Atlantis and a Hunq. I've owned 
> several others in the past as well. One of the Atlantis bikes that I have 
> would fit the bill. It's the more recent style with the longer wheelbase & 
> double top tube. These are super sturdy bikes that wouldn't mind being 
> loaded up and taken to work. I've already got a wheelset with a dyno hub 
> and a light lying around here somewhere. I purchased this bike for $3K this 
> summer from a local guy. I didn't need the bike but just couldn't pass it 
> up as it was so cool! 
>
> I thought to myself: I've locked up more expensive bikes at work for 13 
> hours or at music venues until the wee hours of the night without issue, so 
> why not just do the bulk of my riding on a bike that I truly enjoy riding? 
> What am I saving it for? 
>
> Questions: Is my logic sound? Do you think that riding a nice Riv to work, 
> to lock it up outside all, day in a city, is a dumb idea? Do you commute on 
> a Riv that is left outside all day? 
>
> *I'd also like to use this as an opportunity to see some of your 
> commuters. Feel free to post a pic of your daily driver and also, let us 
> know if you lock it up outside or not. *
>
> The potential commuter. (I'd change the fenders and bars)
> [image: IMG_0630 Medium.jpeg]
>
> My current all road bike
> [image: IMG_0514 Medium.jpeg]
>
> Not a commuter. I ride this guy around quite a bit though. 
> [image: IMG_0570 Medium.jpeg]
>
> The Surly, although it now has 

[RBW] Re: NEW BIKE DAY ! - My blue 52cm Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle

[Jason Fuller]

Looks great, I love the fancy tape wrap located in several spots on the 
bike.  Never going to have to go thirsty while on this bike, also! 

On Sunday, 3 December 2023 at 16:54:20 UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was very fortunate to buy this bike as a "demo" form RBW headquarters in 
> Walnut Creek, California less than a month ago to end my hunt to own one in 
> my favorite color. 
>
> I already had a 59cm lime olive Clem "L" that I declared was too big for 
> me  The time and effort to swapped out parts from one bike to another and 
> selling the 59cm Clem took awhile.  
>
> I can happily report that this 52cm Clem rides, handles and fit me far 
> better than the 59cm Clem. It is a wonderful feeling. 
>
> Thank-you Will Keating.
>
> Kim Hetzel.
> [image: IMG_1386bbb.JPG]
>

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Re: [RBW] A Homer Hill build....

[Jason Fuller]

 lightweight jacket or 
>> vest, etc. Most every need for a day ride, which would include tools of 
>> course. Much of what I do on the Hilsen is unpaved and hilly. The 38mm tire 
>> capacity (with fenders) of my 2013 (?) frame handles dirt roads well, even 
>> on slippery downhills. The new Hilsens with longer chain stays may take 
>> wider tires yet, but I suspect there is a tipping point to tire width. If 
>> your group rides are entirely on pavement, 35-38mm tires should be the 
>> sweet spot for you and you won't need the excess rolling weight of wider.
>> I use a Sam Hillborne for touring and the Hilsen is noticeably livelier, 
>> especially without the touring racks. Since I am not spending all day on 
>> the bike, I can get away with a lighter, more narrow saddle. (But we all 
>> know that is a very personal preference.)  My Hilsen set up this way for me 
>> is a confidence-builder and my favorite bike for adventure rides with 
>> others.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/52784257986/in/album-72177720307152181/
>> Paul Germain
>> Midlothian, Va.
>> [image: IMG_7763.jpeg]
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 9:28:46 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Did someone say PIE??! 不
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 6:11:51 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, going down hills in the 42 I am still spinning but then someone 
>> told me that is normal... I guess I am learning new things about riding 
>> since I've been out with a group. I'm going to do a triple on this one and 
>> see how it goes! I do like the sound of your set up with the 24-35-43 with 
>> 12 x 36. Gravity is inconvenient for me a lot these days because I like to 
>> fuel my engine with pie so I am looking forward to the 24! 
>>
>> On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 6:38:19 PM UTC-8 Drew Saunders wrote:
>>
>> If you say you live in your 34, but sometimes spin out, while wanting a 
>> lower gear as well, then a triple is a good choice.
>>
>> You can set up the common 74/110 triple, like the Silver, Soma Clipper, 
>> etc. as a 24-34-44, and pair that with a 12-36 in the rear and have your “3 
>> cassettes on one bike” gearing. I use a 24-35-43 with a 12-36 on my 1998 
>> Ibis Mojo “Mountain Bike that has become a Gravel Bike.” I use the 43 on 
>> pavement, the 35 on almost all my off road riding, and the 24 when gravity 
>> becomes inconvenient. Based on my riding, a 2x10 or 11 makes more sense, 
>> but I’m cheap and lazy, so I’ll stick with the triple for some time.
>>
>> On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 7:24:42 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This is gearing math I can understand... there is a Papa bear, and Mama 
>> bear, and a Baby bear... and something that will be just right for everyone!
>>
>> On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 6:55:19 AM UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>> IMO redundant gears are more of a conceptual or theoretical concern than 
>> a real issue. If you’re setting up a triple, you really end up with:
>>
>> - a middle ring for the majority of your riding 
>> - a small ring for big hills, use it with the biggest cogs in back
>> - a big ring for downhills or otherwise going fast. Use it with your 
>> medium and small cogs and back. 
>>
>> Yes, your small/small and big/big combos will give you those redundant 
>> gears, but who cares? You don’t need to use them anyway. 
>>
>> Eric 
>> Who lives the 1x life in flat central Ohio 
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 27, 2023, Sarah Carlson  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for bringing up the redundant gears... in my brain I'm telling 
>> myself maybe it's overkill... but is it really such a terrible thing?
>>
>> On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 5:27:48 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>> You bring up a good point Ted about so-called redundant gears, which is 
>> something many cyclists try to eliminate as much as possible to their own 
>> practical detriment. It's better to approach planning a drivetrain by 
>> identifying how low you want your low gear to be, how high you want your 
>> high gear to be, and then finding the most user-friendly combination to get 
>> there. A big issue with wide-range doubles is that you'll find that you 
>> need to drop into the small ring for every hill, whereas if you have a 
>> triple, you can generally stay in the middle ring most of the time and save 
>> a lot of front shifts, even though you have more rings up there. 
>>
>> For me, I find I don't need anything above about 95 gear inches - a

Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Jason Fuller]

You bring up a good point Ted about so-called redundant gears, which is
something many cyclists try to eliminate as much as possible to their own
practical detriment. It's better to approach planning a drivetrain by
identifying how low you want your low gear to be, how high you want your
high gear to be, and then finding the most user-friendly combination to get
there. A big issue with wide-range doubles is that you'll find that you
need to drop into the small ring for every hill, whereas if you have a
triple, you can generally stay in the middle ring most of the time and save
a lot of front shifts, even though you have more rings up there.

For me, I find I don't need anything above about 95 gear inches - above
that and I'm going to coast, maybe tuck in and get aero. Maybe 100 tops. On
the low end, if it's used off-road or to carry loads I'll want something in
the 18-20 gear inch range, but if it's a roadish bike, 24-25 inches is
good. So what I tend to do is run a double but size the rings such that I
truncate the big gears I'll almost never use, so that I can run a big ring
on the double that I can stay in on gentle climbs. 40/28 to 11-34 is a
great combo, for instance. Even 38/26 to 11-28 to get some smaller steps on
the back, and 38-11 is a big enough top gear for most situations

On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 1:45 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 12:34:51 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> I would echo that triples are pretty nice - not only do you get more
> range, but the 10-tooth jumps in the front are a lot less 'disruptive' if
> you know what I mean. I find the smaller chainring jump means that when I
> hit the base of a hill I can often just drop a chainring and leave the rear
> alone, and it is a natural gear reduction .. whereas on the wide-low
> double, you would be spinning like crazy if you tried the same thing
>
>
> Excellent point, and one that launches me into bike nerd mode... apologies
> in advance if this is too much.
>
> The "standard" chainring gap became 16 teeth when "compact double" 50x34
> combos became all the rage. That's a 39% jump, the way I measure it
> (Ln(50/34)), or about 2.5 times the 15.4% jump from 18 to 21 in back. Now,
> if you keep that 16 tooth gap but go down to 40x24, that's a ginormous 51%
> jump, which is 3.3x the 18-21 jump. I have a 42x26 on my Waterford ST-22,
> and it's definitely jarring to drop to the small ring when you hit a hill,
> requiring a bit of advance planning to shift a cog harder in the rear,
> first. I spent plenty of time riding half-step gearing, so I'm facile with
> double-shifting, but after a couple hundred kms I'm too tired for that. For
> my Breadwinner G-Road I went with 44x32, which is a gentle 32% jump. It
> means there's more overlap in the gearing, or to put it another way, I'm
> not maximizing the total range of the system, but I very much prefer to
> make that trade-off. At 41%, the 14-tooth gap on the Silver 42x28's on my
> Sams is pretty much the outer limit for me. The Wide-Low (38x24) is a 46%
> jump which is pretty high.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>
>
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[RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Jason Fuller]

This happens to me a lot, where I think I've got my bike quiver dialed 
perfectly but then my needs change, and riding with new or different groups 
is a prime example! It's also why my Hillborne keeps bouncing back between 
drop bars and Albatross bars.  I think the Homer makes perfect sense! 

I'm going to suggest the Choco bar and a long stem, such as 12cm.  The 
Choco ought to be a great compromise between the Albastache and the 
Albatross; the 'stache is very forward feeling, much like reaching for the 
hoods on a drop bar, while the 'tross is very relaxed to the extent it is 
hard to get a comfortable 'hunched' position when you're climbing or 
pushing harder.  The Choco has a more natural feeling forward hand position 
thanks to its bend and flatter profile, but still sweeps back far enough 
that when you're cruising you don't need to have too much weight on your 
hands and shoulders.  I would run it with bar end shifters so you get full 
range of hand positions, and I really like the Paul levers because they are 
thin enough that I can put my hands such than one or two fingers is in 
front of the lever as well. 

I would echo that triples are pretty nice - not only do you get more range, 
but the 10-tooth jumps in the front are a lot less 'disruptive' if you know 
what I mean. I find the smaller chainring jump means that when I hit the 
base of a hill I can often just drop a chainring and leave the rear alone, 
and it is a natural gear reduction .. whereas on the wide-low double, you 
would be spinning like crazy if you tried the same thing

Other than that, lightweight wheels (A23's are great!) and tires (ie 
anything Rene Herse, but lots of other options too) and just avoiding 
putting unnecessary accessories on the bike will keep it pretty light. I 
love this whole plan! 





On Sunday, 26 November 2023 at 08:29:37 UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com wrote:

> And it was a beginner ride with a avg 12 mile posted pace. I almost told 
> him i hoped I hadn't held him back from making a personal best time on that 
> ride!
>
> My other bikes are set up perfect for what I do, so no stripping! Although 
> I might have to consider that myself to bring in money for my bike habit.
>
> On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 7:45:47 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 9:25:01 AM UTC-6 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You always need a Hilly Bike... Do it!
>>
>> A list full of enablers :-)
>>  
>>
>> I had an injury (shoulder) last year and had what I would call total 
>> fitness depletion so I have been building back up from what feels like 
>> zero. 
>>
>> I'm very sympathetic to that.  I've had a bunch of weird stuff happen 
>> over the last few years, including a drug that started killing my red blood 
>> cells, so I have felt like I've had to restart the engine a few times. That 
>> might be one reason why my bikes are all set up the same way ... trying to 
>> stick with what works in terms of positioning, while I get the other things 
>> going.
>>  
>>
>>  So while I figure that out I'm open to seeing what a lighter built up 
>> bike can do. 
>>
>> Far be it for me not to be the enabler of buying another Riv, but have 
>> you considered stripping down one of your existing bikes and trying some 
>> nice, light tires? In my experience, tires make by far and away the biggest 
>> difference to how a bike feels, and if you've dialed in a good riding 
>> position, you could start there (and maybe a wider range set of gears in 
>> back). Removing a rear rack can also remove some stiffness from the rear of 
>> the bike, but I don't know how many people would feel that difference, 
>> especially on a bike that's already fairly stout and on cushy tires.
>>
>> with exception to the guy who led the first beginner ride I went on, 
>> looked at my bike and stated, "I hope I can ride slow enough..." 
>>
>>
>> Hoo boy, just the kind of person you want leading a group ride...  one of 
>> the reasons I stopped going on group rides.
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Grips appreciation post

[Jason Fuller]

The "biocork" Ergons are like Laz-E-Boys for your hands. So darn 
comfortable. I have multiple Ourys in the more elegant Blue Lug limited 
colours but can't argue Eric's point about them still not being totally 
right style-wise. Mind you, I'm running them on non-Rivs 

For swept bars, the Ergon GC1 is the ticket 

On Tuesday, 21 November 2023 at 10:40:49 UTC-8 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ergons.   The first time I saw their ergo shaped grips I thought, "goofy 
> looking".  Then I evolved (translation: got old and creaky). I'm currently 
>  running them on two of my bikes. (I might be in a bit of a rut here, style 
> wise)
>
> [image: IMG_1746.jpeg]
>
> [image: IMG_1747.jpeg]
> On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 12:10:03 PM UTC-5 Matthew Williams wrote:
>
>> When my Brooks grips failed, I made a pair from a leather handbag:
>>
>> New Grips 
>> 
>> groups.google.com 
>> 
>> [image: groups_32dp.png] 
>>  
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 14, 2023, at 1:43 PM, northfaring  wrote:
>>
>> Looking for some grip inspo.  Please share your grips! 
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on top tube anomaly

[Jason Fuller]

Oh no, I guess I spoke too soon. That's a real bummer!

On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 10:01 AM Garth  wrote:

> Oh heck, just one click embiggens the photo in it's own tab. (No edit
> capacity is maddening...)
>
> On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 12:59:02 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>
>> That's definitely a crack in the tube Ted. Whichever frame builder you
>> take it to will also inspect the other relevant tubes, plus the fork. That
>> would be an opportune time to add any braze-ons to the frame too, and well
>> maybe you'd like another color as there's nothing like choosing your own !
>>
>> For those unaware, right click on the image and open it in another tab,
>> then double click it to make it full size.
>> On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 12:41:47 PM UTC-5 ted.l...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Per Will's instruction I chipped off the paint around the blister and I
>>> think there's a hairline crack in the tube... I hope I'm wrong but that's
>>> sure what it looks like
>>> [image: IMG_6439.JPG]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 12:37 PM Jason Fuller 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is it just the blister on the top of the tube, or does it look wrinkled
>>>> on the sides too?  Sorry, not really able to tell on my screen.  If it's
>>>> just that blister on top, it could very well just be from poor paint
>>>> bonding due to debris or maybe it wasn't cleaned well enough after brazing
>>>> I'd think too. Maybe a little bit of flex from riding finally caused it to
>>>> lift and split like that.  It just looks like an air bubble under there
>>>> rather than a crack - a crack wouldn't lift like that
>>>>
>>>> Hope I'm right about that because it would certainly be a shame to need
>>>> repair!
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, 17 November 2023 at 08:30:08 UTC-8 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yup, bought this bike brand new when the last run of Appaloosas went
>>>>> live. Built it up a few months ago and I've ridden it pretty much daily
>>>>> since. It is almost certainly fixable. There are several reputable frame
>>>>> builders in my area and I'm sure any one of them could replace the tube if
>>>>> needed... if needed being the key there. I love the purple and worry about
>>>>> color matching after the repair. I guess I could look at it as a chance to
>>>>> get a custom work up but my wallet doesn't like the sound of that.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 11:06 AM Ryan  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> New bike and you are the original owner correct?
>>>>>> looks a little scary and if you are the only owner hopping down
>>>>>> stairs sounds
>>>>>> like the culprit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> see what riv says but not sure this would be a warranty issue...but
>>>>>> it's prob
>>>>>> fixable
>>>>>>
>>>>>> good luck!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sorry for shifty typing
>>>>>> On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 9:30:29 AM UTC-6 ted.l...@gmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Noticed this after my morning ride today and I'm not sure what to
>>>>>>> make of it. To my eye, it looks like the tube has wrinkled slightly,
>>>>>>> however, I can't think of how it could have happened (no crashes, etc.).
>>>>>>> Additionally, there's no evidence of damage to the downtube as you would
>>>>>>> see from something like a front end collision. The only "hard" impact I 
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> think of was from last week when I hopped down some stairs and did feel
>>>>>>> like the front wheel took a harder "thud" on the bottom step than 
>>>>>>> expected.
>>>>>>> I inspected the wheel and fork afterwards and didn't notice anything 
>>>>>>> off. I
>>>>>>> didn't look in this exact spot, but I was working on the frontend of the
>>>>>>> bike later that day in the shop stand and feel like I would have seen it
>>>>>>> during that time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My plan is to chip off the paint a little to inspect the bare metal
>>>>>>> underneath to check for corrosion or cracks, though I'm not expecting to
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on top tube anomaly

[Jason Fuller]

Is it just the blister on the top of the tube, or does it look wrinkled on 
the sides too?  Sorry, not really able to tell on my screen.  If it's just 
that blister on top, it could very well just be from poor paint bonding due 
to debris or maybe it wasn't cleaned well enough after brazing I'd think 
too. Maybe a little bit of flex from riding finally caused it to lift and 
split like that.  It just looks like an air bubble under there rather than 
a crack - a crack wouldn't lift like that 

Hope I'm right about that because it would certainly be a shame to need 
repair! 

On Friday, 17 November 2023 at 08:30:08 UTC-8 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> Yup, bought this bike brand new when the last run of Appaloosas went live. 
> Built it up a few months ago and I've ridden it pretty much daily since. It 
> is almost certainly fixable. There are several reputable frame builders in 
> my area and I'm sure any one of them could replace the tube if needed... if 
> needed being the key there. I love the purple and worry about color 
> matching after the repair. I guess I could look at it as a chance to get a 
> custom work up but my wallet doesn't like the sound of that.
>
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 11:06 AM Ryan  wrote:
>
>> New bike and you are the original owner correct?
>> looks a little scary and if you are the only owner hopping down stairs 
>> sounds 
>> like the culprit
>>
>> see what riv says but not sure this would be a warranty issue...but it's 
>> prob
>> fixable 
>>
>> good luck!
>>
>> sorry for shifty typing 
>> On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 9:30:29 AM UTC-6 ted.l...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Noticed this after my morning ride today and I'm not sure what to make 
>>> of it. To my eye, it looks like the tube has wrinkled slightly, however, I 
>>> can't think of how it could have happened (no crashes, etc.). Additionally, 
>>> there's no evidence of damage to the downtube as you would see from 
>>> something like a front end collision. The only "hard" impact I can think of 
>>> was from last week when I hopped down some stairs and did feel like the 
>>> front wheel took a harder "thud" on the bottom step than expected. I 
>>> inspected the wheel and fork afterwards and didn't notice anything off. I 
>>> didn't look in this exact spot, but I was working on the frontend of the 
>>> bike later that day in the shop stand and feel like I would have seen it 
>>> during that time.
>>>
>>> My plan is to chip off the paint a little to inspect the bare metal 
>>> underneath to check for corrosion or cracks, though I'm not expecting to 
>>> see any. Assuming that, I plan to just cover up the exposed metal and keep 
>>> on truckin' given how minior any possible damage appears to be. I'm curious 
>>> to see what people think, though. I've also reached out to Riv with the 
>>> same photos to get an "official" opinion on the matter as well.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_6432.JPG]
>>> [image: IMG_6433.JPG]
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hillborne fork on a Heron?

[Jason Fuller]

For what it's worth, one of my riding pals runs the 700x38 Rene Herse 
knobbies and they're delightful as well, so if you choose to size down to 
address the issue I don't think you'll be missing out a whole lot.  Plus, 
that keeps the BB height, etc closer to the design values. 

On Thursday, 9 November 2023 at 16:44:06 UTC-8 h...@chrisdedinsky.com wrote:

> Thank you for the kind words! It's really a delightful unit.  
>
> On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 4:15:56 PM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I just want to chime in to say, that’s the sexiest Heron I’ve ever seen. 
>> So well done! 落
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2023, at 7:10 PM, Chris Dedinsky  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Appreciate the threadless insight too Wes. I wouldn't have considered 
>> that as an option. Bit I'll keep it in mind as I do a bit more research. 
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 7:52:34 AM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:
>>
>>> Just FYI, you have more choices than you might think with the fork. If 
>>> you find a fork you like but the steerer is too long, you can still use it!
>>>
>>> If the upper race can't thread all the way down to the cup, you can swap 
>>> your headset for a 1" threadless headset, and screw the top nut not the 
>>> fork threads to provide preload to the headset without having to use the 
>>> typical internal nut of a treadless headset. This means you can still use a 
>>> quill stem with a threadless headset! I did this recently with a threaded 
>>> fork having a vry long steerer in order to get my handlebars higher. 
>>> Happy to provide ics later if that would be helpful.
>>> -Wes
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 12:22:21 PM UTC-8 
>>> h...@chrisdedinsky.com wrote:
>>>
 This week I was commuting home from work on my Heron. I got a flat on 
 my Challenge Strada Bianca 36 tires and on a whim—certainly inspired by 
 the 
 recent 'Rondini' episode of Ron's bikes YouTube episode—decided to stuff 
 in 
 a pair of much too large 700x42 Hurricane Ridge tires to enjoy until the 
 snow falls. Which should be pretty quick here in British Columbia's 
 southern interior.

 The fork clearance is decidedly too tight and perhaps irresponsible, if 
 not dangerous. I'm gonna keep my fenders on as I'm not sure how long this 
 experiment will last. So far a couple of sporting trips back and forth to 
 work. 

 It has got me thinking though, has anyone out there modified their 
 Heron to have more modern Riv tire clearances? In the vein of a Sam 
 Hillborne. I was daydreaming about putting a more tolerable fork and 
 crimping the chainstays, so I could run up in the +45 range. Although the 
 rear wheel has much more than a few sheets of paper in clearance and the 
 irrevesability of crimping makes me nervous. 

 Would love to hear any thoughts on the pro's/con's. And if there are 
 any extra hillborne forks out there for a ~57 frame, I may be interested. 
 If so, I can give specs. I know I should leave a perfectly wonderful 
 frameset alone, but I can't help but wonder about it. 

 Here are some pics that make the fit seem even more dramatic on that 
 front fork. 

 [image: IMG_4368.jpg]
 [image: IMG_4363.jpg]
 [image: IMG_4364.jpg]
 [image: IMG_4365.jpg]
 [image: IMG_4366.jpg]

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>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sizing Down? Pocket ‘Pus.

[Jason Fuller]

I'm 5'8" with an ~81 pbh and I've decided that if I were to get a Platy 
(and I do entertain the idea, although I can't do it in the foreseeable 
future) I'd get a 50 because I love the way 650B wheels ride.  At my (our) 
height, I think either size can totally work fine. Changing the handlebar 
from a Billie to an Albatross would effectively cancel out the differing 
top tube length, or maybe you'd want to try a bar with moderate sweep on it 
- which would give it quite a different feel from the other Platy(s) as 
well!  Or, since I know you love the Billie bar, trimming the ends by the 
same difference as the top tube length might be the best plan! 

I totally think you should do it. If an additional bike isn't justifiable, 
it would still make sense to replace the shopping Platy with a 50 in my 
opinion, as then you've got three distinct feeling bikes with distinct 
purposes, and the shopping Platy already has the carrying capacity to 
become the traveling Platy on weekends! 



On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 12:59:08 UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Bill - I measure my 55 Platy about 75”, end to end.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Garth, are you saying you’re sending me a Betty?! Because I would NOT be 
> sad! 藍
>
> On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:28 PM, Garth  wrote:
>
> 
> Maybe the Betty like the one you sold(or similar) is on it's way to your 
> front door :)
>
> A smaller Platy also comes with less frame reach and bar height potential. 
> Since you're already at the max stem height and length , going to a smaller 
> frame doesn't work for you. Neither does a high rise bar like the Bosco 
> since it comes back further than bar you currently have. 
>
> On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 1:23:07 PM UTC-5 allan@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Two additional data points…
>>
>> Wife has 80PBH
>> 50cm Rosco Platy (Circa 2022)
>> LOA 182cm (71.5”) w/ 42-584 smooth tread (+2cm for fender, 72.5” LOA)
>>
>> I have 87 PBH
>> 58cm Yves/Betty 
>> LOA 176cm (69.25”) w/ 42-584 smooth tread (+2cm for fender, 70”LOA)
>>
>> Allan, in Marlboro, VT
>> On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 12:03:10 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>
>>> *Bill requests: *
>>> *3.  YOU own a medium/small Glorious or Wilbury.  Please measure the 
>>> total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the 
>>> trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you*
>>>
>>> Total end-to-end length of 52cm Wilbury and 52cm Glorius is between 
>>> 67.5" and 68", both with 42mm 650b and fenders. The slight difference is 
>>> due to different fenders.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 5:20:38 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Leah

 My recommendation for an alternative set of academic questions would 
 include the following:

 1.  YOU own a 52cm Yves Gomez or Betty Foy.  Please measure the total 
 end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing 
 edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

 2.  YOU own a 55cm Yves Gomez or Betty Foy.  Please measure the total 
 end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing 
 edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

 3.  YOU own a medium/small Glorious or Wilbury.  Please measure the 
 total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the 
 trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

 I think it would be HOT if you had a sporty short wheelbase Riv 
 step-through in your ARSENAL.  Mrs Bubba used to own a 52cm Gomez, but now 
 she's on a 50cm Platy and it's not actively for sale.  Although if you 
 were 
 eager to lease it for an extended period, I bet she could be convinced. 
  Hers is Mermaid, and its full end to end length is 72 inches, plus or 
 minus a quarter-inch, with 650B x 48 Rene Herse knobbies and no fenders.

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 1:27:55 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> I have a question that is probably only going to be academic. But 
> maybe not. I’ve done crazier things. 
>
> Anyway, I have an 81 cm PBH. I sized up to the 55 cm Platypus (PBH 
> range starts at 82 cm) and I love the fit. I adore my bikes. You can’t 
> have 
> them, I won’t sell them, don’t even ask. BUT, they are long. Too long for 
> buses and for Amtrak. I desperately want to take Amtrak to Chicago with 
> my 
> bike for the first time, but my bike is too long. RivSister Kate says she 
> can get her 50 cm Platypus on Amtrak if she undoes her V brakes and lets 
> some air out of her tire. But, I’m 5’6” and I don’t know if I could ride 
> that little bike. I don’t have one locally to try.
>
> Also, I’d want the lime olive, which would be very hard to find. 
> Anyway, thanks for participating in my thought 

Re: [RBW] Bombadil - first ride and work in progress (some photos)

[Jason Fuller]

I had missed the MARS update and good lord that looks great!  The blue and 
grey are stunning together

On Thursday, 19 October 2023 at 19:52:45 UTC-7 maxcr wrote:

> These are Ultradynamico Mars Race in 29x2.2” mounted on Quill rims
>
> https://ultradynamico.com/products/mars-race?variant=39763276660821
>
> I’ll try to take pics this weekend.
>
> Max
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 19, 2023, at 5:20 PM, Thomas Wasko  wrote:
>
> What are the specs on those tires (width, 650 or 700?)? How is clearance?
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 1:06:12 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:
>
>> A couple of pics from last week - Bombadil with new wheels (thanks Rich!) 
>> and rubber (thanks Ron!) around the Fresh Pond in Cambridge, MA
>>
>> [image: IMG_0361.jpeg]
>>
>> [image: IMG_0362.jpeg]
>>
>> I'm still debating whether to keep the UD Mars on it or to move them to 
>> another bike.
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, April 15, 2023 at 2:46:05 PM UTC-6 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> The Hunqa is a 58, so more standover clearance for sure than the 60 
>>> Bomba (see below). I think they both max out at around 2.1 - 2.3" for tire 
>>> width depending on your comfort of tightness.
>>>
>>> As for weight, I moved the Nitto 32 rack from the Hunqa to the Bomba, 
>>> thinking that lighter might be more fun in rougher terrain, but they are 
>>> both similar frames and not super heavy - at least not for me. The Bomba 
>>> currently weighs around 43 pounds with racks, bags and double kickstand.
>>>
>>> Max
>>>
>>> [image: comp.jpg]
>>> On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 10:05:41 AM UTC-6 Matthew P wrote:
>>>
 Hey Max!

 I love that you consider the sanity of shipping bars back and forth 
 across the country. Thank you for that.
 I have similar concerns with buying direct from Blue Lug.

 Oh I remember the confusion about the wheel size! And thats quite a 
 hefty thread there.

 I was in a similar boat as you before: multiple Rivs that were kind of 
 similar. I used the wrong solution: I sold one that I really regret.
 Ideally the bike with the most standover clearance (/lowest/slopest top 
 tube) also fits the widest tires and is maybe the heavier of the two 
 bikes, 
 becomes the trail bike. It gets the widest tires, no fenders. Thats just 
 my 
 thinking. And the other bigger-but-lighter bike gets the skinnier tires - 
 I 
 like min 42 mm, max 2.1" (units ... sorry) 
 Consider the Maxxis Ikons 2.2" (or 2.35"?) for your wider tire. But 
 people really like the Thuderburts you already have.
 Maybe make the Bombadil and Atlantis as different as possible in how 
 you set them up.

 And enjoy!!
 -Matthew, San Diego - Kumeyaay Land 


 On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 10:06:18 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:

> Thanks Matthew; the paint is really something! 
>
> It’s a 60 - take a look at the initial confusion I had before getting 
> it - here’s the thread: 
> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/jK5Le9uiJ3E/m/mkygvvKuAAAJ
>
> It’s a 700 wheel size and I think 2.1” would be comfortable and 2.3” 
> or more would be ambitious, particularly with knobs.
>
> Following the Radavist’s bomba build, I had originally ordered MARS 
> 2.3” from ultradynamico but I got the wrong size (650) before getting the 
> bike… I returned them but still wonder how that would handle/look like, 
> so 
> I might reorder at some point - what tires you would you use?
>
> I’m lucky that I have a 58 Hunqapillar with 2.1” thunderburts and no 
> fenders as my hillibike, so I’m not in a hurry to make the change on the 
> Bombadil right now.
>
> The seller said he got it from Riv in 2016, based on the serial, I 
> think it was made in ‘09 which seems in line with the timeline of when 
> they 
> were being sold.
>
> I’ll keep you in mind if I decide to swap the bullmoose bars although 
> it seems silly to have these huge heavy bars shipped from Riv to the east 
> coast to have them shipped back to CA.
>
> Cheers!
> Max
> On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 12:16:23 AM UTC-4 Matthew P wrote:
>
>> Hey there Max!
>>
>> I love your blue Bombadil. It'd be a dream to score one at a 
>> reasonable price. I love that paint!
>> What is the frame size and wheel size?
>> I like fenders but I like even more maxing out my tire width. How 
>> wide can you go? You think about trying that?
>> Any idea on the year of the bike and where it was made?
>> Let me know if you want to sell the bullmoose bars  ;-)
>>
>> Thanks for sharing and happy Bombadil'in!
>>
>> -Matthew P in San Diego
>>
>> On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 10:13:49 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the report and photos, Max. Beautiful build on a rare 
>>> beast. It looks like so much fun. Enjoy!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 27, 2023, at 

[RBW] Re: Boomerang Rivs

[Jason Fuller]

I did this with the Charlie Gallop - I sold it to a friend, then a few 
months later after I noticed they were dragging their heels on building it 
up and me feeling a hole where my Charlie once was, offered to buy it back 
- which worked out. Then I rode it a few more months, realized it was 
entirely overlapping other bikes I have, so I sold it a second time but 
this time to someone far enough away I couldn't casually buy it back. 

When I bought the Charlie back I put my Crust Wombat up for sale because I 
only had room for one of them - thankfully it didn't sell because it's 
probably my favourite bike now (and gets more mileage than any other).  

On Friday, 20 October 2023 at 12:20:16 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> for some reason I'm on a low-ebb on my tendency to photo document 
> everythingand I was desperate to get a huge pile of cardboard out to 
> the recycling center, so I sliced up that box setup rapidly and didn't take 
> any photos.  :(
>
> BL in EC
>
> P.S. the Boomerang Rosco Bubbe road is now completely stripped down and 
> its build kit is getting redeployed. 
>
> On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 11:51:11 AM UTC-7 Mike Godwin wrote:
>
>> Heck Bill, seems like the shipping features are worthy of a photo or two.
>> 1 boomerang Riv in the stable (Roadeo).
>>
>> Mike SLO CA
>> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:37:39 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I received my second "boomerang Riv" yesterday.  My definition of a 
>>> "boomerang Riv" is:
>>>
>>> -I bought it from Rivendell
>>> -I sold it to somebody for whatever reason
>>> -I bought it back again
>>>
>>> My first boomerang Riv was my Hillborne frame set.  Boomerang Riv #2 is 
>>> my R05C0 8U883 road complete.  It's the same BLUE 58cm as is on ebay right 
>>> now.  I'm very pleased to have a liftatube bike back in the stable.  The 
>>> build kit of this Rosco will get re-absorbed into inventory and will 
>>> partially find its way on to a very weird upcoming build.  I'm going to 
>>> develop a new build concept for the Rosco, and now have a frame to 
>>> handwring over if I decide I need to join the 26.8mm handwringers.  Maybe 
>>> I'll get my hands on a seat tube reamer and WOW it out to 27.2mm.  
>>>
>>> A very amusing shipping detail was that my boomerang seller had a shop 
>>> box up the bike.  they put the bike into a "bike box" and then put the bike 
>>> box into an "e-bike box".  It was double boxed!  It was by far the most 
>>> bullet proof box jobs I have seen.  
>>>
>>> Pics when there are pics worth showing.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Crumbworks KT (Silver)

[Jason Fuller]

They are great bars. They were out of stock for over a year, but presently 
in stock at a few retailers - I suggest buying new. I don't think it's a 
bar you'll get for a bargain used anyway, and your opportunity to get it at 
all is limited unfortunately. 

I love mine, that's what the Bombadil runs 

On Friday, 20 October 2023 at 10:57:04 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I knew I didn't have one, because I didn't know what a Crumbworks KT even 
> is.  
>
> Just in case anybody else is curious here's what I found:
> I cut and pasted "Crumbworks KT" into the googler and it appears that is a 
> wide Nitto handlebar.  Crust has it in black and silver.  It's a wide 
> (720mm) swept back aluminum riser bar, that retails for $120. It fits a 
> 25.4mm clamp diameter.  Since it's huge I bet it's expensive to ship.  I'm 
> guessing the WTB is looking to save $ off retail, or to avoid buying new 
> stuff for enviro-reasons, both of which are noble pursuits.  
>
> Bill "bumper" Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 10:29:07 AM UTC-7 dylantho...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone selling a pair of Crumbworks KT's? 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: What shoes does your Riv wear?

[Jason Fuller]

I'm late to the party, and every angle has already been discussed at 
length, but I still want to shout out the RH knobbies. I'm very happy with 
them, but more notably for me is that I've recommended them to some riding 
buddies and then the good word spread like wildfire and now nearly all my 
riding buddies within that social circle, which ranges from longtime 
roadies to newbies to longtime mountain bikers, all absolutely swear by 
these tires.  None of us have experienced a tire that grips so well on a 
variety of trail surfaces, rolls fast and predictably on pavement, resists 
punctures, and feels great (better than other premium Panaracer brands) all 
at the same time. 

My only non-gushing comments would be that they do have a buzz on pavement, 
though the tone is more pleasant than most knobbies, and they do tend to 
throw pea gravel through your fender if you run metal fenders, which is 
slightly annoying. Definitely pair these with PDW safety tabs if running 
metal fenders. 




On Monday, 2 October 2023 at 08:26:17 UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’ve had tires on the brain this last week. I was thinking I might want to 
> try something a little narrower on my Appaloosa so I’ve been a bit absorbed 
> with that thought.
>
> At the moment I run the SimWorks Super Yummy tire with the black sidewall 
> in 29x2.25”. I previously had their 26x2.25” tan wall tires on a 26” build 
> and absolutely loved them on that bike. Unfortunately, in the larger size, 
> with the sort of riding I do (spirited, urban, all-road) I find the tires 
> sluggish and a bit unpredictable at times. Combined with the 25mm wide rim 
> I use, the tires measure to close to 60mm wide.
>
> I was thinking about trying to find a tire with a more rounded profile and 
> something that would be a bit narrower, somewhere in the 44-48mm range to 
> start.
>
> I’ve been looking primarily at the Rene Herse tires. I have a friend who 
> runs the Pumpkin Ridge (650x42) tire on his bike of a similar purpose and 
> absolutely loves them. I’ve used the Naches Pass (26x1.8) on another build 
> and also liked them a lot, but found that despite being the “endurance” 
> casing, they were very prone to small punctures and didn’t handle the 
> typical road debris around where I ride very well; this is one of the 
> reasons I’ve typically stuck with knobbier tires.
>
> The ones on my short list are currently the  Manatash Ridge (700x42) and 
> Oracle Ridge (700x48) tires from RH.
>
> I’m curious to know and see what others on the list use and have liked. If 
> you have pictures, I’d also love to see what they look like (particularly 
> 42mm on frames like the Appaloosa).
>
> — Ted
>

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Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Jason Fuller]

I love this thread because Bill Lindsay had the perfect answer right off 
the bat and also predicted how it would go - over a year later and we're 
still at it. 

I've run the touring canti's and neo retro's in the past but as of this 
moment, I have two sets of Motolites (with matching Paul levers) and that's 
it for Paul stuff. My second favourite thing about the Motolites is that 
you can run a flat washer on the pads instead of the cup and cone washers, 
because all you need to do is set the angle to match the arc of the rim and 
then do the fine adjustment with the 4mm collar thing.  My first favourite 
thing is the fact they are Pauls, and this will always be the first 
favourite thing of anyone who vouches for Paul parts.  



On Monday, 9 October 2023 at 08:57:51 UTC-7 bunny...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've been on the lookout for a set of Paul Racer brakes for my rim brake 
> bike. I tend to find that cheaper U brakes have too much spring tension and 
> are not adjustable. My expectation is that Paul with be a very nicely made 
> brake with much more tweakability that I'll enjoy.  I probably should just 
> buy it new to support the semi-local business.
>
> -Ben
>
> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 3:11:40 AM UTC-7 larson@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have two bikes with Paul levers and love them. I upgraded my Black 
>> Mountain Cycles monstercross with Paul Neo Retro cantis and really like 
>> them and a significant improvement over the Tektros that I originally had 
>> on the bike.
>> Randy in WI
>>
>> On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:30:48 PM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:
>>
>>> This is really old thread but I’ll chime in. 
>>>
>>> I found an NOS Saluki recently with PAUL center pulls. The bike, once I 
>>> applied a couple of component swaps, is beautiful. Very…uh…svelte, for want 
>>> of a better word. But those PAUL brakes just did not fit…to my eye anyway. 
>>> Too much industrial muscle and kind of stiff. I found some good old 
>>> Weinmann centerpulls, long reach—they fit the the theme perfectly and stop 
>>> surprisingly well. I sold the PAULS and put a wad of  in my pocket. YRMV, 
>>> but I’m happy. 
>>>
>>> Jock
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:52 AM Bill Fulford  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read 
 later 
 that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. 
 So 
 before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
 feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
 love levers. Are they worth it? 
>>>
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 .

>>>

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[RBW] Re: New Platypus Lug

[Jason Fuller]

I hadn't noticed this! I liked the fillet brazed junction better too but it 
definitely looked like a pain in the butt to fabricate. The new lug (old 
lug - I am sure Allan's right) does have a clean and tidy look too.  A 
friend's Platy has a pretty noticeable blem in the brazing too, maybe 
evidence it was problematic for Maxway. 

On Sunday, 8 October 2023 at 06:54:04 UTC-7 Marc Irwin wrote:

> Cost was probably involved.  The fillet brazing on the original Platypus 
> would be very time consuming and more difficult in a factory setting than 
> connecting a few tubes with lug.
>
> Marc
>
> On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 5:50:25 PM UTC-4 allan@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> [image: 0F3B224F-E805-48D6-9A22-8F51C4323F9C.jpeg]Perhaps they dusted 
>> off the Betty Foy/Yves Gomez lug…
>>
>> On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 3:23:46 PM UTC-4 CoalTrain wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like the new run of Platy's are getting a lugged top/seat tube, 
>>> where as the previous models were welded. Very nice.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Homers Going Live in a Few Minutes

[Jason Fuller]

Also a big fan of the new colour, would love to see it in person.  Looks 
like nearly all sizes and (new) colours are still available - supply 
finally caught up with demand I guess! 

On Thursday, 14 September 2023 at 12:38:27 UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I really love the butternut color! I lean toward not thinking the lugs are 
> worth the extra money but I do miss the cream accents that the lugged 
> models get. Classy
>
> On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4 Chester wrote:
>
>> Anyone getting in on the latest batch of Homers?
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/homer
>>
>> I fought off the urge to get one by realizing that I'm still needing to 
>> push myself to find time to ride my Roadini more, that it probably suits me 
>> better, and the main reason why I have a strong urge to get the Homer is 
>> the cosmetics of the fully lugged frame.
>>
>> Scarce garage space helps dull the G.A.S. too.
>>
>> Chester
>> SF Bay Area
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Russ Roca/Path Less Pedaled reflects on his Sam Hillborne

[Jason Fuller]

This resonates with me because my Hillborne is the only bike I've been 
absolutely certain I would never sell. Four years and 10,000km in, and this 
feeling has never wavered. Every other bike I've at least had thoughts of 
selling.. or have sold!

On Friday, 15 September 2023 at 08:44:27 UTC-7 Tim Tetrault wrote:

> Indeed, thanks for sharing this. I sent it to my wife who was instrumental 
> in crowd funding a side-pull canti Sam frame for my birthday back in 2012.
>
>
>
> On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 8:25:21 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I, too, delight in watching Russ Roca's YouTube channel "Path Less 
>> Pedaled". It is very entertaining and informative. 
>>
>> It was really cool to hear his reasoning why is keeping his Rivendell Sam 
>> Hillbourne bicycle, of which is very similar to my thinking to owning and 
>> wanting to keep my Clem.
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>> On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 6:06:23 AM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love Russ’ channel. He provides a nice balance to bicycle YouTube.
>>>
>>> I’m perfectly happy with my Appaloosa but earlier this year i was torn 
>>> between it and waiting for the Hillborne release. I’m on the larger side 
>>> for a cyclist and their recommendation for the rider weight gave me pause. 
>>> I’d have loved to have a slightly shorter wheelbase for commuting 
>>> (elevators are a bit tight).
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 8:30 AM Julian Westerhout  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Russ Roca has a new video up about his Sam Hillborne --  explaining why 
 it is the one bike he cannot see ever selling. 

 IMHO he does a really good job of explaining the appeal of the 
 Rivendell line. I think it is worth watching. 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6YG_Mk3zJ4


 Julian Westerhout
 Bloomington, IL 

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 .

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Roaduno

[Jason Fuller]

Between this and the production spec of the Charlie, it's clear that the 
new models are simply splitting hairs between existing models - no shame in 
it, I love to see the additional resolution within the world of Rivendells 
- but splitting hairs nonetheless!  The Charlie has become a 
cross-pollination of the Homer and Roadini, with a slightly dropped top 
tube. 

I still maintain that what the world needs now is Riv's answer to the Cross 
Check - a TIG'd construction Hillborne essentially, ideally with a swoop 
tube. 

On Saturday, 26 August 2023 at 18:28:12 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> It'll be like a Hilsen but singlespeed but you can mount a derailleur like 
> a Hilsen. 
>
> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 3:39:43 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> If it's got caliper brakes like a Hilsen, that will send some people into 
>> a tizzy.  The suspected derailleur hanger sent a different set of people 
>> into a tizzy.  If it's got long chainstays and a sloping TT, then that's 
>> two more tizzy-groups.  The tizzy venn-diagram will be interesting to map 
>> out.  I'll be in a tizzy because I'm between the 54.5cm and 58cm sizes.  
>> Tizzy's galore!
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 6:30:08 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> From Grants blahg:
>>> "RoadUnos are scheduled for early 2024, but we're getting prototypes in 
>>> mid to late September.  They're basically A. Homer Hilsen frames except for 
>>> the graphics and dropouts. Rear wheel spacing is 120mm."
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:19:26 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would wager Riv sells a few Roadunos based on that cool dropout. I'll 
>>>> also drink to that!
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Rich in ATL
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 1:26:46 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That has got to be one of the coolest dropouts I've ever seen.  Even 
>>>>> if I didn't use the Der hanger, that thing is a beaut!  The gap between 
>>>>> that upper hook and the fender boss looks like a beer bottle opener to 
>>>>> me! 
>>>>>  I'll drink to that!
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 5:29:22 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: b79c131c-d2e4-7454-7385-657a56268f96.jpg]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 2:16:05 AM UTC-4 fe...@femiagbabiaka.xyz 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see -- in a recent interview with PathLessPedaled he mentioned 
>>>>>>> that the bike he's riding most often is a 3x1 -- I'm now wondering if 
>>>>>>> he's 
>>>>>>> testing out the new Roaduno based on what you've described.
>>>>>>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 9:15:07 AM UTC-5 velomann wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Grant wants folks to be able to run a double crankset and front 
>>>>>>>> derailleur if they want. It's an odd duck for sure; 120mm rear spacing 
>>>>>>>> with 
>>>>>>>> track dropouts but a derailleur hanger. And there might be a braze-on 
>>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>>> running a shift cable for a front derailleur if they can't find a good 
>>>>>>>> bolt-on option.
>>>>>>>> Wouldn't be my choice but I'm getting one anyway ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:28:39 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Question about thatif it requires a string tensioner then what 
>>>>>>>>> makes it a singlespeed specific frame? He said it had horizontal 
>>>>>>>>> dropouts 
>>>>>>>>> which is what would typically fix the need for a tensioner.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 11:19:40 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The PLP interview mentioned the samples coming late this month, 
>>>>>>>>>> and the production frames probably pushed over new years now.  I 
>>>>>>>>>> have to 
>>>>>>>>&g

[RBW] Re: Did Charlie Gallop lose its swoopy top tube?

[Jason Fuller]

Interesting!  I wonder if they've pivoted on what the Charlie is going to 
be.  Going lugged at the head tube, like the new Gus batch, is great but 
losing the swoop tube would be a real shame (no offence Joe!  Your custom 
pulls it off better than this Charlie IMO).  I would love to see it just be 
a roadish version of the new Gus! 

On Wednesday, 23 August 2023 at 09:59:19 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Right?? 
>
> [image: Screenshot_20230823_095848.jpg]
>
> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 5:56:23 AM UTC-7 lconley wrote:
>
>> Reminds me of a certain gray and red Rivendell Custom.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:05:09 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I mean...thats lugged and has a cream headtube. I don't care what the 
>>> decal says, that can't be a Gallop.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 6:33:36 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 From the Blue Lug instagram post, it seems like a proto Charlie with a 
 straight top tube at RivHQ:

 [image: IMG_1965.jpg]

 [image: IMG_1966.jpg]

 Max

 PS. Apologies for the bad photo quality but it's hard to grab a post 
 from a video in IG.

>>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Jason Fuller]

My take, in point form: 

- Any bike is at risk of theft or vandalism in this situation, no matter 
how 'perfectly suited' to the job it is. 
- That said, the Clem L is definitely less attractive to thieves than a 
Surly, despite being better in our eyes. Surlys are much better known. 
- If you are comfortable with a real risk of losing it to theft, and want 
to see it live its life, I'd go for it
- If it's painful to think of it being stolen, I'd hold it back and buy a 
$300 single speed for its disposable nature

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 10:00:07 UTC-7 dajo...@gmail.com wrote:

> Let's make it 3 for 3.  Keep the new Clem at home.  There will be plenty 
> of time for him to enjoy it during college breaks, and post-college.  In 
> 20+ years as a campus pastor at a Big 12 university, I don't ever recall 
> seeing that nice of a bike on campus.
>
> David Jones 
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
> wrote:
>
>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college 
>> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, 
>> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up 
>> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>
>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, 
>> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I 
>> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the 
>> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of 
>> saying… 
>>
>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>
>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>
>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would 
>> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could 
>> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>> through undergrad together.
>>
>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
>> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
>> Leah
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Comfy aluminum frames?

[Jason Fuller]

I was hoping I could track down what I had read not long ago on some very 
interesting thin-wall aluminum bikes that were produced in, I believe, the 
1980s. With aluminum lugged construction if I'm recalling correctly. 
Apparently they rode wonderfully and are nothing like the big-box aluminum 
bikes we're used to today. 

Steel is three times as stiff as aluminum, all else equal. So you'd think 
aluminum frames would be less stiff!  Except, because its also lower 
strength and doesn't have the fatigue resistance of steel, tubing is made 
larger and thicker which more than offsets this. The aluminum frames can 
still be lighter because the yield strength to weight ratio is better with 
aluminum, and by using larger diameter tubing, stresses can be kept low 
enough to not have fatigue issues (for the expected frame lifespan ... 
eventually, their time will come, which isn't necessarily the case for 
steel).  The reason you don't see aluminum frames with a nice flex to them 
like well-made steel frames, is because if aluminum is allowed to flex to 
that extent it will fatigue quickly and end up failing. Under a certain 
level of stress, steel won't fatigue, but aluminum still will, no matter 
the stress. So with aluminum you've got to keep the stresses low enough the 
fatigue life is longer than anyone's likely to ride the bike. 

Aluminum is really popular these days because you can thicken up that frame 
quite a bit, protecting the manufacturer from warranty claims for dented or 
cracked frames, without it getting super heavy. The lack of rust is a big 
plus in the casual cyclist's eyes, and the ease at which the tubing can be 
formed to all kinds of shapes (via hydroforming, among other processes) 
makes designing elaborate cargo bikes and the like a lot easier.  The rough 
ride tends to be solved by wider tires these days; suspension being the 
next line of defence. I reckon it's more attractive for the manufacturer to 
sell you suspension, which they can up-charge for... and also, as little 
sense as it makes to all of us, steel is seen as 'outdated' compared to 
aluminum for bicycle frames. It's dead wrong but .. well, so are a lot of 
the general public's notions about things. 






On Friday, 11 August 2023 at 04:13:44 UTC-7 alan lavine wrote:

> Appreciate your thoughts, everyone.
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 12:48:17 AM UTC-4 Will M wrote:
>
>> Alan, Jan Heine's 2021 book, *All Road Bicycle Revolution*, has some 
>> good reading on this topic ("characteristics of a great frame can be 
>> obtained from all materials"; p. 174) that aligns with Sheldon Brown's 
>> writing from 20 years ago 
>>  ("the reality is 
>> that you can make a good bike frame out of any of these metals, with any 
>> desired riding qualities, by selecting appropriate tubing diameters, wall 
>> thicknesses and frame geometry").  They both argue that the "feel" of a 
>> frame is influenced more by frame design than by the material itself. 
>>
>> This doesn't answer your question.  :-)
>>
>> I'm not sure I have an answer.  All I know is that my aluminum Yuba Sweet 
>> Curry cargo bike is the stiffest thing on the planet (to give 300-lb cargo 
>> capacity; look at all the aluminum trusses 
>> 
>> !).  
>>
>> And that I agree with Matthias: my "forever bike" is also a C'dale 
>> adventure touring bike (this T1000 
>> ; the aluminum 
>> CAAD2 touring frame) that turns 25 in December.  I had posted previously 
>> 
>>  
>> about how I am slowly turning it into an Atlantis, having drunk too much 
>> Kool-Aid in Walnut Creek.  But I must say that the T1000 rides better than 
>> any RBW bike that I've owned.  Blasphemy, but there it is.  Something about 
>> its chromoly fork's geometry gives it magical handling.  If only it had the 
>> Atlantis's clearances.  I am waiting for the aluminum to fail so I can get 
>> in line for the next Atlantis batch. :-)
>>
>> Will M
>> NYC
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 5:32:56 PM UTC-4 Nick Payne wrote:
>>
>>> As I said in another thread (
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/tAas6urcOwg/m/KW63fr0LCQAJ), 
>>> modern aluminium frames can be quite comfortable. Last week I did back to 
>>> back rides on successive days over the same chipseal roads on that Al bike 
>>> and on my Riv custom. I can't say that the Riv felt any more comfortable or 
>>> better handling. The Al frame was running Conti GP Urbans and the Riv Rene 
>>> Herse Bon Jon Pass, both nominally 35mm tyres.
>>>
>>> Nick Payne
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Tried and liked: Suntour Cyclone pretzel

[Jason Fuller]

Eric, you've *got* to get a DAG alignment tool!  The heavy steel one, avoid 
the new lighter one. It's a must have for the home mechanic of fine steel 
frames that do not have replaceable hangers.  I use it every time the 
derailleur is pulled off for any reason, or if I'm having any stubborn 
shifting issue - it's amazing how often it's just because the alignment was 
out slightly. 

On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 12:17:13 UTC-7 George Schick wrote:

> This is one of the more interesting posts/threads having to do with bike 
> repairs that has come along in awhile (with no intention to downplay the 
> unfortunate accident!).  I like the final post about a Helicoil or dropout 
> saver recommendation.  My own preference would likely be the Helicoil 
> because you have to tap in new larger diameter threads in order to install 
> the coil, which seems like it would stabilize the damaged hanger better.  
> Having view the dropout saver at the Wheels Mfg. website, I'm not sure how 
> well that would work in this case.
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 1:21:37 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Further ideas: Antonio at Riv suggested getting a Helicoil tool in the 
>> M10x1.0 size to repair the bolt hole. Brian Chapman recommended installing 
>> a Wheels Mfg. dropout saver. Either would attempt to repair the bolt hole. 
>>
>> I'm open to trying either of those fixes as well. 
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 2:17:55 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the replies, everyone. 
>>>
>>> A few asked about the chain jumping/skipping/slipping. When the chain is 
>>> under load it slips or clunks repeatedly. It's kind of like when you're in 
>>> the wrong gear and you need to trim the gear to get it right. But no amount 
>>> of trimming is fixing the issue. 
>>>
>>> I've tried three different derailers, same problem. The cassette was new 
>>> in summer of 2022 and I haven't ridden in the three big gears enough to 
>>> wear out the teeth of the cogs. It's an S-Ride 7s from Rivendell, it's an 
>>> 11-32. The crank is the same age, installed last summer. SunXCD crank with 
>>> TA Specialites rings, 42/26. I don't see any issues with the wheel (it's 
>>> running true) or with worn cassette or chainring teeth. Also no play in the 
>>> freehub body. 
>>>
>>> The elongated hole: It could be the derailer is flexing in the hole, 
>>> hard to determine this off the bike. Derailer seems seated when I try to 
>>> move it around in my hand, doesn't wobble. 
>>>
>>> I have *not yet* tried installing a different wheel and cassette. That 
>>> will be next. Should have tried that *much* earlier in the process. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:57:01 AM UTC-4 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>>
 Oops, I just noticed Stephen had already made the point about the 
 derailleur possibly wiggling in the hole.  Yes— what Stephen said. 

 Jim

 On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:52:54 AM UTC-4 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Even though it’s threading in smoothly, I wonder if that elongated 
> hole is the problem. Wonder if that bolt is moving under tension.  
>
> I’m not a bike mechanic by any means but I did spring for the Park 
> Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge awhile back and I’m glad.  I have used 
> it 
> on old frames and on a new Riv frame I built up recently.  
>
> On YouTube, RJ the Bike Guy has a good video on building a homemade 
> dropout alignment gauge, also useful:
>
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PsU8IkkFaok
>
> Jim in Rochester, NY
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:08:28 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>
>> https://www.jensonusa.com/Wolf-Tooth-Hanger-Alignment-Tool
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 10:41:54 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Eric,
>>>
>>> Been loosely following along. Glad you were ok in the accident but 
>>> sheesh, what a bummer it did so much damage. Id vote along with others 
>>> for 
>>> getting a hanger alignment tool, or figuring out how to make one for 
>>> yourself. i bought a wolf tooth variety ( i prefer the way it 
>>> references to 
>>> the hub vs rim) not too long ago and dont regret the investment. I 
>>> bought 
>>> after knocking my appaloosa over on the drive side. 
>>>
>>> I will say i am curious too whether there might be something else 
>>> going on to cause the skipping.. when my hanger was bent it was only 
>>> noticeable that when in my biggest cassette ring the derailer would go 
>>> into 
>>> the wheel. may depend on what way its bended. I’m curious if the 
>>> derailer 
>>> may have any wiggle in the elongated hole. have you tried subbing in 
>>> another derailer or chain to test the system? 
>>>
>>> I encourage you to keep trying to solve on your own before reaching 
>>> the final solution of frame repair or sending cross country, which 
>>> would be 
>>> time consuming 

[RBW] Re: Dyno Refresh: Platypus Edition

[Jason Fuller]

that looks very good Leah!  i haven't done cleaner myself.  it looks like 
you left enough slack at all the spots where you need it (ie for full "lock 
to lock" steering and such).  tail light wiring is a pain, there's really 
no perfect answer. Bikes that have full-length housing have it pretty easy, 
you can electrical tape to the housing and the wire becomes nearly 
invisible. I have thought of trying a long length of heat shrink along the 
exposed downtube cable that i could stick the wire in with the derailer 
cable.. not sure if there's longterm concerns with chafing.  

On Saturday, 29 July 2023 at 23:42:21 UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> I’m personally a fan of zip ties securing the rear dyno light cable to the 
> downtube on my Riv. And for much the same reason as Dorothy: ease of 
> at-home maintenance is greatly increased and the dyno cable will be 
> stationary rather than move with each shift (however small).
>
> On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 12:05:17 PM UTC-7 Dorothy C wrote:
>
>> I installed my dyno myself, so I don’t know how it is usually routed to 
>> the back, I just thought it might get fiddly to change shifter cables, and 
>> also that the back and forth motion might rub the rear light housing. My 
>> IQX lights have the cables and housing integral to the front light body, I 
>> think, so they aren’t easy to swap out if they get damaged. 
>>
>> On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 3:01:01 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love my shop for many reasons but I give them 5 demerits for their 
>>> dyno expertise. They assembled my Platypus in January 2022 and it was never 
>>> strung up attractively, and then the rear light started shorting out, and 
>>> then I paid for them to fix it a few times and then I gave up. I called 
>>> Analog.
>>>
>>> Analog said send them the lights. They had to do extensive rewiring AND 
>>> I had to get a new coaxial box because that was all corroded. I have no 
>>> idea how I managed that after only one year, but we all have our talents.
>>>
>>> The lights came back to me today and I feel like the way I strung the 
>>> wires looks pretty great, but we will have to see if function is as good as 
>>> form. I have never, ever messed with dyno before, but I took photos of the 
>>> bike from before and tried not to make it worse.
>>>
>>> Photos coming in the next post…
>>> Leah
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Best Riv Rando Bike

[Jason Fuller]

Eric - PBP on a fixed QB, wow, nice work!  I had done some 100 mile rides 
on a fixed gear around the same time but nothing like that. 

I would say that which Rivendell works best (and whether a Rivendell at all 
is the right call) depends on your randonneuring aspirations and 
priorities. I have only done a half dozen 200k's so far, so I'm just a 
dabbler, but my Hillborne is perfectly suited for me despite being heavier 
and slower than a Ram, presumably. My only complaint is that they should 
have put third water bottle bosses under the DT; I added my own. But I am 
not trying to get a competitive time - I am happy being 9:30 - 11:00h 
finishing time on a 200.  I appreciate the 42mm tires with fenders and the 
forgiveness they provide.  If I was more competitive I'd probably dip into 
the back catalog for a Ram, Saluki, earlier Homer, or Bleriot.

On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 12:42:02 UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The roadini doesn't have front rack braze-ons. But saddlebags or 
> bikepacking style bags would definitely work.
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 12:15 PM Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
>
>> The Roadini is worth some consideration.  Many people finish PBP on 
>> carbon fiber racing bikes, so you could definitely do it with a Roadini and 
>> have a much more comfortable and pleasant ride.  The Roadini is probably 
>> better (for me) than the Roadeo because it accommodates wider tires. If I 
>> were considering a current production bike, then that might be my choice as 
>> it balances speed and comfort.
>>
>> I can't remember if the Roadini has braze-ons for a front rack, but I had 
>> no problem with a Mark's rack and p-clamps on my Ram and didn't have any 
>> handling issues (I shared weight with a saddlebag, so it wasn't "front 
>> loaded").  Many people ride with a handlebar bag (without rack) for food 
>> and use a saddlebag for everything else.  It is nice to stuff layers into 
>> the front rack "rando" bag without having to stop, but (obviously) it is 
>> not necessary.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Toshi
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Jason Fuller]

danielle - the Cheviot looks awesome and congrats on the Roadini purchase!
My two cents is that since the Cheviot is the longer of the two bikes, I
would transfer the Albatross to the Roadini (it's the most forward-reach of
the sweepy bars, excluding the Albastache) and put a Losco bar on the Chev
now that it's relieved of any spirited riding needs thanks to the new speed
steed!  If that sounds t relaxed, then I'd go with keeping the Chev as
is and put an Albastache setup on the Roadini with a nice short stem. I am
living vicariously through you as I weigh these options!

On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 12:06 PM danielle da cruz 
wrote:

> Leah, you are too kind! That is a great compliment coming from an
> inspiring storyteller such as yourself. The Chev story is good insomuch as
> it's easy to recall every gruesome detail...trauma will do that ;)
>
> I did grab a 50cm Sergio Roadini yesterday and will continue to hem and
> haw over parts for a few more weeks, drooling over its pics all the while.
> Now I'm wrestling with bar choice. Not a drops fan, I'm weighing the choco
> (maybe shortened a bit) vs the 48cm losco and will accept any opinions! I
> had a VO Porteur bar on a fun Peugeot that I lost in a run in with a car
> last year...I'm about 5'2", 100 lbs, and loved the narrow width, so am
> tempted by the narrow losco.
>
> The Cheviot has some beautiful albatross bars, a Mark's rack up front, a
> Clem rack on the back, a Pletscher double kickstand, and is set up 3x9.
> When I bought it as a 40th birthday gift to myself I wanted to believe it
> would be the last bike I'd ever buy (ahahah!) and had it built to
> accommodate almost anything I'd want to do with it in the future. I toted a
> baby seat on the front, then on the back as the kid grew. Now we ride side
> by side and just finished riding the carriage roads at Acadia on a camping
> vacation, me towing a lazy 50 lb pitbull puppy in a Burly trailer behind
> the Chev. Said puppy comes to work with me a few days a week and will
> continue to ride the 3 mile commute in style behind the Cheviot, my
> official "cargo" bike. It's got fenders and will be my rain/snow/slush
> bike, for which I have received, um, feedback from some opinionated New
> England cyclists who've suggested that a bike of its caliber be stored in
> the basement for the winter rather than exposed to our salted roads. As
> mentioned though, the Chev's not precious, no ma'am. It cruises through
> slush and even snow and will continue to do so. The Roadini will be my ride
> fast(ish) and free bike. Probably precious for just a little while :)
>
> On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 7:16:52 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
>> This story takes the cake. You’ve set us up perfectly, Danielle, with the
>> hearts coming out of your eyes for the orange demo Cheviot and your
>> eagerness at its impending arrival… As much as you wanted it, we wanted you
>> to have it!
>>
>> Oh, but who could have guessed the part your hero would play…
>>
>> I gasped. I laughed. I…am so sorry.
>>
>> I am excited for you to have another New Bike Day without all the trauma.
>> Please let us know if you get that Sergio Green Roadini. And, if you’d
>> indulge me, I am curious about how it’s going with the Cheviot and what
>> you’ll be using each bike for. I love to hear people’s Riv stories!
>>
>> Thanks for writing this; I so thoroughly enjoyed your storytelling.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2023, at 1:51 AM, danielle da cruz 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This story hit me in the worst way. Six years ago for a milestone
>> birthday I decided to purchase a beautiful orange Cheviot from Riv. I'd
>> jumped on one that was too large for me that our local bike shop had on
>> display and from that moment on could think of nothing else. I felt like a
>> bird taking flight on that bike, so we placed the order for my size and
>> waited for delivery. I got notice when it arrived and raced home to find
>> that my ever-helpful partner had opened the box and was already assembling
>> it (you know where this is going)...
>>
>>
>> On our concrete walkway.
>>
>> With the frame laying on the bare ground, scratching along as he moved
>> it.
>>
>> Taking a bite out of "v" in the Cheviot.
>>
>> Instant decal damage on day one.
>>
>> Scratched down to the steel.
>>
>> I feel sick to my stomach even thinking about it again. And so from
>> moment one it was no longer pristine. Very special of course, but not
>> entirely precious and future scrapes have gone down easier. Now I have my
>> finger on the button again, ready for a Sergio Green Roadini this Thursday.
>> I plan to take D(elivery) Day off from work and be sure my man with a plan
>> is out of the house :)
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 6:15:59 PM UTC-4 Mojo wrote:
>>
>>> In the winter of 2011, I bought a Mark-Nobilette-built Legolas. It was
>>> serious overlap with my 2001 custom Riv Road and 2005 Quickbeam. I
>>> justified it as my mixed-surface, foul-weather, fine-riding bike. 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno

[Jason Fuller]

Forward-facing, semi-horizontal dropouts of olde are okay for chill single 
speed use but agree, not recommended for fixed gear because they tend to 
slip forward during either hard acceleration or hard deceleration. With 
track ends, the alignment screws prevent this.  That said - I don't think 
any modern Riv is going to attract very many fixed gear riders!  Bottom 
bracket is way too low, for starters 


On Saturday, 15 July 2023 at 21:32:35 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> H? I don't know why you say that.
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 9:57 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> If Riv wants to sell singlespeed frames to the singlespeed market it's 
>> going to be with track ends. Most fixie folks wouldn't accept 
>> forward-facing horizontal dropouts. 
>>
>> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 7:52:29 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I was just flipping through the Tour De France: Centennial history and 
>>> looking at 1920s and early 1930s photos; the bikes seem to have multiple 
>>> clusters, perhaps just 2 cogs, on each side of the hub.
>>>
>>> I couldn't find a photo of the Roaduno; can anyone post a link or a 
>>> picture? 
>>>
>>> Didn't someone say it has track ends? I wonder why Rivendell didn't make 
>>> the bike with horizontal dropouts; those make more sense for derailleur use 
>>> without compromising derailleurless use; in fact, I find horizontals easier 
>>> for fixed chain length drivetrains. Or perhaps track ends but a removable 
>>> derailleur hanger. Oh well, I won't be interested as Rivendelll road bikes 
>>> have tubing too stout for my taste, but it's interesting to hear about the 
>>> possible drivetrain varieties.
>>>
>>> Me, I say bring back club-type IGHs.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 5:32 PM Peter Adler  wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... If someone uses a flip-flop wheel, with mounting for a track cog on 
>>>> one side and a freewheel on the other, why shouldn't the freewheel be a 
>>>> multigear freewheel, if the wheel's dished to allow it? Then you'd need a 
>>>> frame-mounted hanger (or a derailleur-mounted add-on hanger) to mount the 
>>>> "multi-cog negotiation mechanism".
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Peter Adler
>>>> Berkeley, CA/USA
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:01:03 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I keep forgetting about the dangling hanger. Such a silly thing to have 
>>>> added IMO, particularly if 120 spaced. Admittedly I don't understand the 
>>>> attraction to the 3-by-1 drivetrain, but regardless, a regular 
>>>> vertical-dropout bike is well suited to that already.  It's not a huge 
>>>> visual impact, but it shouldn't be there in my opinion. 
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2c0efcbd-72e8-4275-9603-8e61ca90516bn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2c0efcbd-72e8-4275-9603-8e61ca90516bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno

[Jason Fuller]

;>>>>>> Bill Lindsay 
>>>>>>> El Cerrito Ca
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 1:27 PM Joe Bernard  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You could singlespeed an existing frame, but this one is designed 
>>>>>>>> so you DON'T need a tensioner for it if you're definitely-fer-sure 
>>>>>>>> going to 
>>>>>>>> stick with one gear. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 9:11:05 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My area is way too hilly and I am way too old to entertain a 
>>>>>>>>> single speed (or two or three speed) anyway so its not something I am 
>>>>>>>>> interested in BUT I was still curious. If its designed to use a 
>>>>>>>>> tensioner 
>>>>>>>>> then why not just single speed one of their existing bikes?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 10:19:37 AM UTC-4 velomann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Correction - not track dropouts; horizontal facing forward (I 
>>>>>>>>>> think).
>>>>>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 7:15:07 AM UTC-7 velomann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Grant wants folks to be able to run a double crankset and front 
>>>>>>>>>>> derailleur if they want. It's an odd duck for sure; 120mm rear 
>>>>>>>>>>> spacing with 
>>>>>>>>>>> track dropouts but a derailleur hanger. And there might be a 
>>>>>>>>>>> braze-on for 
>>>>>>>>>>> running a shift cable for a front derailleur if they can't find a 
>>>>>>>>>>> good 
>>>>>>>>>>> bolt-on option.
>>>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't be my choice but I'm getting one anyway ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:28:39 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Question about thatif it requires a string tensioner then 
>>>>>>>>>>>> what makes it a singlespeed specific frame? He said it had 
>>>>>>>>>>>> horizontal 
>>>>>>>>>>>> dropouts which is what would typically fix the need for a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> tensioner.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 11:19:40 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The PLP interview mentioned the samples coming late this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> month, and the production frames probably pushed over new years 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> now.  I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to say, when Grant said it's essentially a singlespeed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homer, I became 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suddenly interested. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, 7 July 2023 at 09:44:49 UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The mid-May Blahg did say December in purple and dark orange. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or purple and Sergio green. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will see!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Love the idea of it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Edwin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 5:40:16 PM UTC-5 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> penne...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The mid-May Blahg  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/june>has 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> em slated for December in purple and dark orange. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mack in Alberta 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 4:21:05 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The latest update they published was in February. saying 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they'd ship put of Taiwan in August/September.  That same 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email update said 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there would be a lugged Susie shipping in June and Platypus in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> July.  The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Susie's don't seem to be here yet, so maybe push everything 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back a little.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> October?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:54:59 PM UTC-7 Dick Combs 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone got any news/updates on availability?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in 
>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/V8PXgkYPM3k/unsubscribe
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>>>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f44794bd-9465-4148-b05a-45c29b8c82d7n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f44794bd-9465-4148-b05a-45c29b8c82d7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Roaduno

[Jason Fuller]

The PLP interview mentioned the samples coming late this month, and the 
production frames probably pushed over new years now.  I have to say, when 
Grant said it's essentially a singlespeed Homer, I became suddenly 
interested. 

On Friday, 7 July 2023 at 09:44:49 UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:

> The mid-May Blahg did say December in purple and dark orange. Or purple 
> and Sergio green. 
>
> We will see!
>
> Love the idea of it,
>
> Edwin
>
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 5:40:16 PM UTC-5 penne...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The mid-May Blahg  
>> has em slated 
>> for December in purple and dark orange. 
>> Mack in Alberta 
>>
>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 4:21:05 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> The latest update they published was in February. saying they'd ship put 
>>> of Taiwan in August/September.  That same email update said there would be 
>>> a lugged Susie shipping in June and Platypus in July.  The Susie's don't 
>>> seem to be here yet, so maybe push everything back a little.  October?
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:54:59 PM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:
>>>
 Anyone got any news/updates on availability?
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: ?How to Buy A Charlie H Gallop?

[Jason Fuller]

As mentioned, it'll probably still be a good while - possibly over a year - 
before they do go on sale. You will get lots of reminders via the 
Newsletter and IG posts, Riv's been doing a lot of reminders for each frame 
drop lately.  But you do want to make sure you're available and your own 
reminder is set once they provide the date, because some size and color 
combinations will sell quickly - probably in a matter of minutes. Others 
will last hours, maybe days. Just set the reminder as soon as they announce 
when the sale will be, then be refreshing the shop page at the time of the 
drop and you'll be fine! 

On Saturday, 17 June 2023 at 14:00:58 UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> They have new prototypes that (I think) just showed up. I don't see the 
> Gallop getting released until later 2024 or maybe later.
>
> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 4:31:39 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Not so much anymore. Keep an eye on Instagram and the Riv Email 
>> Newsletter, they'll probably announce a sale date just as the frames are 
>> landing in Oakland. 
>>
>> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 1:27:43 PM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Okay - I'm going to ask a dumb one - here goes:
>>> I've set my sights on the Charlie - which will be my first Riv. I've 
>>> noticed that popular models sell out quickly and suspect with the Charlies 
>>> being new, they may get scooped right up. 
>>>
>>> Best I can tell, RBW generally takes pre-orders. Can I anticipate a 
>>> pre-order for the Charlie? 
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Let’s say I made my Clem into a “gravel bike”

[Jason Fuller]

I am very late to this conversation, and everything has been covered 
already, but I wanted to say that even though you're not "into riding 
gravel" per se, I think a big ol' set of knobby tires on the Clem is an 
awesome idea (something you can take multiple steps towards, starting with 
48's and no fenders on the Brevet rims) if it unlocks new paths and areas 
to explore. I'm not going to lie, riding on smooth pavement is nicer than 
riding on gravel, as trendy as gravel riding has become. The real reason to 
ride gravel to me, is to be able to go to quieter, more nature-filled 
spaces by bike. Having the right tool for the job will make it a much more 
enjoyable experience. And while you can totally under-bike slick 42's and 
fenders like many here do, it is MUCH more confidence inspiring to be on 
voluminous, knobby tires. 

My suggestion is to put some 48's with some tread on for now, explore your 
local options and walk if you need to, and if you find yourself really 
enjoying getting off pavement, then it's time to upgrade to some wider rims 
(ie Cliffhanger) and some really capable tires like knobby 2.4" Teravails. 

On Sunday, 11 June 2023 at 13:45:07 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> YAY! I tend to be the worrying sort and I'm very happy to hear that the 
> rim/tire combo will work for you. Now go ride that gravel! 
>
> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 1:09:14 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> All the happiness and all the joy!!! I can run what I want! I was getting 
>> ready to pitch the whole project when I thought I might have to build new 
>> wheels - quite the investment for something I’m only experimenting with, 
>> plus I had dyno in my old wheelset. I’m getting 48s because I absolutely 
>> CAN I’ll take it to the shop and report back later on what tires I end 
>> up with.
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2023, at 1:37 PM, Bob Ehrenbeck  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> 48s are absolutely fine on Pacenti Brevets.
>>
>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/gravel-myths-3-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/
>>
>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-18-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/
>>
>> Bob E
>> Cranford, NJ
>> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 2:59:59 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> The internal width is 19mm. A 48 might benefit from a slightly wider 
>>> internal width but it should be just fine with the 19. I am not an expert 
>>> in such things though.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 1:10:03 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Can anyone here confirm that she can run 48s tubed on those Pacenti 
 Brevet rims? I checked their site and got nowhere, it shows a graph with 
 42 
 yes, 50 no. What about 48??

 On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 8:57:50 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> OH! I see. I don't know enough about tubeless to understand the fine 
> details of size vs psi, etc. I have those rims on my ProtoGallop with 
> 42's 
> but I have tubes because it suits my brain better.
>
> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 8:39:59 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> They are, and in the myriad responses I’ve gotten (many private and 
>> some on Instagram) it has been explained to me that if I want to run 48s 
>> I 
>> have two options: 1. Run tubeless but never more than 30 psi. Or, use 
>> tubes. Or thirdly, but new wheels.
>>
>> Did I misunderstand? 
>> L
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2023, at 6:22 AM, Johnny Alien  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I was under the understanding that the current Pacenti Brevet rims 
>> are tubeless ready.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/collections/aluminium-rims-gravel-cross/products/brevet-rim-650b-1
>>
>> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 12:38:32 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> What Gil says resonates with me. I love how you love a Clem! All 
>>> those attributes truly do make the Clem a gem.  I have favored those 
>>> Platys 
>>> as of late, but I am going back to Clem-loving again soon. We are 
>>> traveling 
>>> right now, but when I get back I’m heading to the bike shop to see 
>>> about 
>>> putting 48s on my Clem if the Pacenti Brevet rims will take them. 
>>> Sounds 
>>> like if they aren’t tubeless, it’s ok. We’ll see.
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2023, at 3:15 PM, Gill  wrote:
>>>
>>> The fact that the OP’s query has already been thoroughly dealt with 
>>> won’t dissuade me from chiming in on a subject near and dear (besides, 
>>> if 
>>> posters were not able to beat dead horses this forum would have 
>>> dissolved 
>>> years ago). I own a Clem and ride off road, gravel/trail riding is the 
>>> fourth most favorite thing I do in life. I highly encourage others to 
>>> do it 
>>> on a Clem. Opinion, highly subjective, yes, but I do have a kind of 
>>> data 
>>> point. Usually I’m solo but last summer I joined a group ride 

[RBW] Re: FS: 61.5 Swoopy Proto Gallop in silver, with canti studs

[Jason Fuller]

GLWS max!  I might have to be the second person to list a silver canti 
Gallop for sale in this list (but for shorter folks) as I'm once again just 
finding the bike storage situation to be too jam-packed here and there's a 
lot of redundancy between the CHG and the Sam. 

Great bike for those considering, nothing quite like it - long and comfy 
but also has a sporty flex to it.  Would make an amazing randonneur bike. 

On Wednesday, 7 June 2023 at 05:42:07 UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks Johnny. The Charlie may well be my first Rivendell  (if a Platypus 
> doesn't drop into my lap first). 
>
> I'm beginning to outgrow my '90s  650b converted race bike and have my 
> sight set on a roadish Riv. Preferably a swoopy one,  just because.
>
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 8:15:15 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I believe they are scheduled for next year. The changes from the 
>> prototype that I know of are side pull instead of canti brakes and a less 
>> swoopy top tube. It still swoops but not as much. They are now being 
>> designed around albastache bars so I don't know if there were any geometry 
>> changes because of that. Most likely nothing to any major degree.
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 9:42:49 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Wondering if anyone knows the status of the Gallop? I  really like what 
>>> I've been seeing on this thread but have been unable to track down any 
>>> mention of when they might be expected.  
>>> I'm smitten by the Charlie's lines - that curvaceous top tube that's not 
>>> quite low enough to call a "step through" and the ample stack at the front 
>>> end.  Cantis or side pulls, either one is wold be okay with me. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 3:23:58 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 *FS: 61.5 Swoopy Proto Gallop in silver with canti studs *

 This is your chance to own one of the few prototype Charlie Gallop 
 bikes with canti/v-brake studs.

 The Gallop is a speedy road bike with a long wheelbase that takes wide 
 tires with fenders - the dream road setup. The upcoming 2024 production 
 ones won’t have a canti / v-brake option, so if you want ‘em buy this one.

 It’s a great riding, stable and super comfy bike that I have a feeling 
 I will regret selling. From Will’s update: “Grant has been riding it and 
 says if it gets any zippier, it'll be a liability issue.” - I don't think 
 it needs any more endorsements.

 Some additional notes:

 My pbh is around 90, I'm 5'11" with long legs. The low top tube means 
 you can probably upsize and use sweptback bars if the frame is bigger than 
 your usual size. There's a wide spectrum of pbh's that can fit this bike.

 The frame is in great condition but it has been used for commuting and 
 recreational rides around the city, which means it has a few minor 
 scratches here and there, but nothing major and no dents, dings or 
 crashes. 
 (happy to take pictures)

 This one has the Charlie Decals including horses in the chain stays, 
 but it has a Rosco badge because it isn’t an official Gallop. Will said 
 the 
 decals are over the clear coat and they're fairly tough but eventually 
 they'll crack. I already see the Riv logo decal on the downtube peeling 
 off.

 *A couple of options for the sale below. *Prices do not include 
 packing and shipping - local pick up in Boston preferred but I can ship 
 and 
 if you're patient I can also pack the bike myself to save some $. Also, I 
 assume Paypal or Venmo F Finally, I made various upgrades from the 
 original demo bike and think this is fair, but please let me know if I'm 
 off.


1. 
 *Complete $2,600 - *Velocity Atlas 700c wheels laced to a Son28 dyno 
hub in the front and a Deore hub rear
- Shikoro 42mm tires (basically new)
- SKS P50 Fenders
- 48cm Noodles with shorty Nitto stem and green wrap (basically new)
- Tiagra Levers (basically new)
- CX 50 brakes (basically new)
- Silver2 BES
- Nitto 26.8 x 250 seatpost
- Clipper 42x30 crank
- 11-36 9 speed cassette
- Nexave rear derailer
- Cheapy shimano front derailer

2. 
 *Complete with fancy wheels & tubeless tires $3,150  *- 700c  polished 
Velocity Quills 32h laced to a Bitex Touring rear hub and a Shutter 
Precision dyno up front (hand built by Analog Cycles) - purple bling 
(valves & nipples)
- Tubeless Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass (basically new)
- SKS P50 Fenders
- 48cm Noodles with shorty Nitto stem and green wrap (basically new)
- Tiagra Levers (basically new)
- CX 50 brakes (basically new)
- Two purple cherries from Forager cycles
- Silver2 BES
- Nitto 26.8 x 250 seatpost
- Clipper 42x30 crank
- 11-36 9 

Re: [RBW] forthcoming Hillibike "combo" predictions?

[Jason Fuller]

Right you are, Bill - I knew I was taking a guess as I couldn't recall 
which it was.  But figured folks would know what I meant :)   The only 
thing I don't like about it is the bottle bosses on the curved top tube - 
just doesn't jive with the otherwise highly elegant appearance - two on the 
top of the DT and one on the bottom of the DT seem like plenty, especially 
with the fork mounts too.  It's 100/142 axle?  Kind of surprising with the 
2.8" clearance. 

I too would want threadless and more modern MTB axle standards for my 
dedicated off-road bike. I really, really want a Stooge mk6. 



On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 16:25:09 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Are you and Jason both misspelling it "CHONK" ?  I've read about the 
> CHUNK?  Or is there another model actually called the CHONK?  
>
> Assuming it's the CHUNK, I agree it's a cool looking bike.  It's like a 
> step through, upright bars, version of Patrick Moore's "RBFD" (Road Bike 
> For Dirt).  It's definitely not a mountain bike, though.  It's got road 
> bike through axle spacing, and takes road bike disc brakes and rotors.  
> It's even got a 1" threaded steerer.  It's a disc brake Platypus, but it 
> takes fatter tires.  The closest thing to a Rivendell is that it's a disc 
> brake Susie Longbolts.  A svelte rider who knows how to ride light could do 
> lots of dirt bombing on a disc brake Susie Longbolts.  It's definitely less 
> stout than a Gus, in my opinion.  It's a very cool bike, and there's 
> nothing quite like it.  Anybody who wanted a Susie but wished the Susie had 
> disc brakes should be PUMPED, pending geo-charts of course.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA 
>
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 11:27:19 AM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> That Crumbworks Chonk looks amazing! I’ve been thinking about it ever 
>> since first seeing the photos. It’s like a mix between a Gus, a Platy, and 
>> a Jones Spaceframe. So cool and lovely curves!
>>
>> On May 17, 2023, at 1:49 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>> (and yes, I picture the Crumbworks Chonk as I describe it!) 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 10:48:23 UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I really, really want it to be a mountain mixte.  That would give it the 
>>> torsional stiffness that IMO a hillibike needs while still keeping vertical 
>>> compliance, and the low standover Grant (and others!) prefer for an 
>>> off-roader.  A mixte frame with 2.6" knobby tires and a nicely slacked out 
>>> front end would be a beauty. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 16 May 2023 at 07:58:44 UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Hunqapillar does have a certain forbidden fruit mystique.  I don't 
>>>> think I've heard any other Riv model mentioned as often in the context of 
>>>> wishing it would come back.   
>>>>
>>>> For me, the ultimate Riv would have been a 54 or 55 cm, 650b, single 
>>>> top-tube Bombadil.  I remember the 52 would have been my size, and too 
>>>> small, and the next largest size was way too big, and probably 700c, to 
>>>> boot.  I still may 650b my 54 Hunqapillar some day.  I'm guessing it 
>>>> wouldn't be hard to mostly hide disk brake tabs in elephant gray paint.
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:03:24 PM UTC-5 Michael Baquerizo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version 
>>>>> would just be an Appaloosa.*
>>>>>
>>>>> this is what i tell myself all the time. always wanted a hunq, but 
>>>>> ended up with an appa. i used to hate the long chain stays and i still 
>>>>> *prefer 
>>>>> *the hunq, but I i really like my appaloosa.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:39:49 PM UTC-4 Chris L wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> RBW have stated at least once that the Hunqapillar will come back, 
>>>>>> but in a different form.  I hope that's what is coming in October.  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version 
>>>>>> would just be an Appaloosa.  Other than longer chainstays and probably 
>>>>>> heavier tubes, the Appaloosa is very, very similar to the old 
>>>>>> Hunqapillar, 
>>>>>> at least in the mid-sizes (ie, 54 Hunq, 55 Appaloosa).   I would love to 
>>>>>> ride my 54 Hunqapillar and the closest to the same size Appaloosa, back 
>>>>>> to 
>>>

Re: [RBW] forthcoming Hillibike "combo" predictions?

[Jason Fuller]

(and yes, I picture the Crumbworks Chonk as I describe it!) 

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 10:48:23 UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I really, really want it to be a mountain mixte.  That would give it the 
> torsional stiffness that IMO a hillibike needs while still keeping vertical 
> compliance, and the low standover Grant (and others!) prefer for an 
> off-roader.  A mixte frame with 2.6" knobby tires and a nicely slacked out 
> front end would be a beauty. 
>
> On Tuesday, 16 May 2023 at 07:58:44 UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>
>> The Hunqapillar does have a certain forbidden fruit mystique.  I don't 
>> think I've heard any other Riv model mentioned as often in the context of 
>> wishing it would come back.   
>>
>> For me, the ultimate Riv would have been a 54 or 55 cm, 650b, single 
>> top-tube Bombadil.  I remember the 52 would have been my size, and too 
>> small, and the next largest size was way too big, and probably 700c, to 
>> boot.  I still may 650b my 54 Hunqapillar some day.  I'm guessing it 
>> wouldn't be hard to mostly hide disk brake tabs in elephant gray paint.
>>
>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:03:24 PM UTC-5 Michael Baquerizo wrote:
>>
>>> *If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version 
>>> would just be an Appaloosa.*
>>>
>>> this is what i tell myself all the time. always wanted a hunq, but ended 
>>> up with an appa. i used to hate the long chain stays and i still *prefer 
>>> *the hunq, but I i really like my appaloosa.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:39:49 PM UTC-4 Chris L wrote:
>>>
>>>> RBW have stated at least once that the Hunqapillar will come back, but 
>>>> in a different form.  I hope that's what is coming in October.  
>>>>
>>>> If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version 
>>>> would just be an Appaloosa.  Other than longer chainstays and probably 
>>>> heavier tubes, the Appaloosa is very, very similar to the old Hunqapillar, 
>>>> at least in the mid-sizes (ie, 54 Hunq, 55 Appaloosa).   I would love to 
>>>> ride my 54 Hunqapillar and the closest to the same size Appaloosa, back to 
>>>> back, to see how much difference the longer chainstays make.  
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 7:27:36 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Two biggest differences (in my opinion) between a Clem L and either a 
>>>>> Gus or Susie; the latter are not step through frames & they both have a 
>>>>> significantly higher bottom bracket than the Clem. I think the Clem is 
>>>>> accurately described as a “Hillibike”. Gus & Susie are legit mountain 
>>>>> bikes. Love them both!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 15, 2023, at 8:10 PM, ssimarsawhney  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My guess would have been 1in threaded with thicker tubing, which 
>>>>> feels like a clem. 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can someone speak a bit more about the differences between the two? 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:44:08 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think anyone said Susie and Clem are alike, we said Clem L 
>>>>>> covers the same territory. Gus is more specifically its own thing, 
>>>>>> there's 
>>>>>> no other Riv in the category. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:59:28 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Owning both a Susie and a Clem, I do agree with Garth that they are 
>>>>>>> almost nothing alike.  On the other hand, I guess I don't see as much 
>>>>>>> distinction between the Susie and the Gus as some do, and think of them 
>>>>>>> as 
>>>>>>> interchangeable.  Just slightly clunkier and stiffer tubing on one.  
>>>>>>> Assuming it will still have the not-quite-step-through swoopy top tube 
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> that lugs could be shared with Charlie, it would be hard  to Imagine 
>>>>>>> Rivendell having a new set made for 1 1/8" threadless headtubes and 
>>>>>>> larger 
>>>>>>> diameter downtubes, but who knows.  It sounds like the scare of losing 
>>>>>>> a 
>>>>>>> lug supplier ha

Re: [RBW] forthcoming Hillibike "combo" predictions?

[Jason Fuller]

I really, really want it to be a mountain mixte.  That would give it the 
torsional stiffness that IMO a hillibike needs while still keeping vertical 
compliance, and the low standover Grant (and others!) prefer for an 
off-roader.  A mixte frame with 2.6" knobby tires and a nicely slacked out 
front end would be a beauty. 

On Tuesday, 16 May 2023 at 07:58:44 UTC-7 Chris L wrote:

> The Hunqapillar does have a certain forbidden fruit mystique.  I don't 
> think I've heard any other Riv model mentioned as often in the context of 
> wishing it would come back.   
>
> For me, the ultimate Riv would have been a 54 or 55 cm, 650b, single 
> top-tube Bombadil.  I remember the 52 would have been my size, and too 
> small, and the next largest size was way too big, and probably 700c, to 
> boot.  I still may 650b my 54 Hunqapillar some day.  I'm guessing it 
> wouldn't be hard to mostly hide disk brake tabs in elephant gray paint.
>
> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:03:24 PM UTC-5 Michael Baquerizo wrote:
>
>> *If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version 
>> would just be an Appaloosa.*
>>
>> this is what i tell myself all the time. always wanted a hunq, but ended 
>> up with an appa. i used to hate the long chain stays and i still *prefer 
>> *the hunq, but I i really like my appaloosa.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:39:49 PM UTC-4 Chris L wrote:
>>
>>> RBW have stated at least once that the Hunqapillar will come back, but 
>>> in a different form.  I hope that's what is coming in October.  
>>>
>>> If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version 
>>> would just be an Appaloosa.  Other than longer chainstays and probably 
>>> heavier tubes, the Appaloosa is very, very similar to the old Hunqapillar, 
>>> at least in the mid-sizes (ie, 54 Hunq, 55 Appaloosa).   I would love to 
>>> ride my 54 Hunqapillar and the closest to the same size Appaloosa, back to 
>>> back, to see how much difference the longer chainstays make.  
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 7:27:36 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Two biggest differences (in my opinion) between a Clem L and either a 
 Gus or Susie; the latter are not step through frames & they both have a 
 significantly higher bottom bracket than the Clem. I think the Clem is 
 accurately described as a “Hillibike”. Gus & Susie are legit mountain 
 bikes. Love them both!

 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 15, 2023, at 8:10 PM, ssimarsawhney  
 wrote:

 My guess would have been 1in threaded with thicker tubing, which feels 
 like a clem. 


 Can someone speak a bit more about the differences between the two? 

 On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:44:08 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I don't think anyone said Susie and Clem are alike, we said Clem L 
> covers the same territory. Gus is more specifically its own thing, 
> there's 
> no other Riv in the category. 
>
> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:59:28 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Owning both a Susie and a Clem, I do agree with Garth that they are 
>> almost nothing alike.  On the other hand, I guess I don't see as much 
>> distinction between the Susie and the Gus as some do, and think of them 
>> as 
>> interchangeable.  Just slightly clunkier and stiffer tubing on one.  
>> Assuming it will still have the not-quite-step-through swoopy top tube 
>> and 
>> that lugs could be shared with Charlie, it would be hard  to Imagine 
>> Rivendell having a new set made for 1 1/8" threadless headtubes and 
>> larger 
>> diameter downtubes, but who knows.  It sounds like the scare of losing a 
>> lug supplier has receded for now, too.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:24:58 PM UTC-6 Andrew Letton wrote:
>>
>>> The one feature that I see the Gus/Susie just begging for is a set 
>>> of triple bottle bosses on the *rear* side of the seat tube. With 
>>> those long chainstays, it seems the perfect place for another big (1 - 
>>> 2 
>>> liter) waterbottle for those of us in hot, dry locations.
>>> cheers,
>>> Andrew in Sydney
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 02:35:56 AM GMT+10, Brian Turner <
>>> brok...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know anything specific about this new Hillibike 
>>> iteration scheduled for October? Care to make any speculations or 
>>> predictions? According to the latest Riv IG post, it only says "lugged, 
>>> green and dark gold".
>>>
>>> My main questions are:
>>> Will it have a straight top tube like the Platy / Roscoe Bubbe, or 
>>> the nice graceful swoopy one like Gus / Susie / Charlie?
>>>
>>> 1" threaded or 1-1/8" threadless (like Gus)?
>>>
>>> Heavier tubing (like Gus), or lighter duty (like Susie)?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are 

Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[Jason Fuller]

Late to the conversation - great story-telling as always, and highly 
relatable Leah!  I have certainly been there, although maybe not entirely 
by surprise in my case. I ride with friends who have very fast, lightweight 
bikes and I'm never totally sure how much to blame my bike vs. my legs, but 
for sure they both play a role.  

I've been consistently amazed by how effortlessly you've been able to hang 
onto group rides with folks on more typical road bikes, because as much as 
I love an upright Riv, it definitely takes more effort to go the same 
speed.  On flat ground, you lose a bit due to aerodynamics but as you say, 
it's the hills where the difference really becomes significant and I think 
it's largely to do with body position - on our slack seat tube, upright bar 
bikes we're rotated too far back once the road points upwards!  Getting 
forward on the bars helps.  A lot of it is the angle between your legs and 
torso, and also having your torso rotated forward enough to effectively 
counter-balance the forces from your pedal strokes. 

I have enjoyed just gearing down and enjoying the scenery but this breaks 
down if you need to keep up with a fast group 

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 09:23:04 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> That's a funny story. Long ago my then-wife/now ex-wife decided to try out 
> the Spinning (tm) class at the nearby gym. Her only cycling experience was 
> about 25 miles total on our 2 tandems (on the first of which -- wholly 
> inappropriate lightweight 531C Orbit racing tandem that wagged like a dog 
> under 2 neophytes -- our inaugural and sole ride ended up with the steerer 
> breaking and sending both of us over the bar).
>
> Anyway, she went to the gym and found it full of die-hard Spinning 
> aficionados with an aggressive coach. The first kefuffle was that she wore 
> regular athletic shoes, but they got her more or less sorted, and she 
> embarked on such a purgatorial ride that about 1/2 way through she came 
> close to fainting and falling off the machine, stopping the class so others 
> could resuscitate her and ask her if she needed a doctor (she is a doctor). 
> That was her last Spinning class. She took up guns and whisky and cigars -- 
> tough little 5'2" 2nd-gen Taiwan Chinese.
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 10:01 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> My comical "getting in over my head" story is not a cycling story, but I 
>> think it still has familiar emotions
>>
>> My wife is an avid flamenco afficionado.  She takes classes multiple 
>> times per week, attends shows almost every weekend, and savors the Spanish, 
>> Gypsy and North African cultural streams that all mix together.  The SF Bay 
>> Area has a small but vibrant flamenco community, so usually if you go to a 
>> medium sized show with 100 people in the audience, you're going to see 
>> familiar faces.  At small shows, you might know everybody.  Performers from 
>> the last show will be in the audience of this show, etc.  One of the 
>> traditional parts of flamenco is a percussion element.  It's a wooden snare 
>> drum in the shape of a box.  The Cajon.  The drummer sits on the Cajon and 
>> plays on the front face of the instrument, making a surprising array of 
>> sounds.  
>>
>> I'm recognized in this small community because I go to a lot of shows, 
>> but I don't dance, sing, or play an instrument.  My wife had the idea that 
>> we could learn cajon together.  Several years back, a visitor from Spain 
>> was holding a workshop in San Francisco, and she signed us up.  The 
>> description said "all levels welcome".  I asked "will they have a cajon for 
>> each of us to borrow?"  She said "they must!  All levels!"  
>>
>> We got there and every student was a professional percussionist.  There 
>> were 8 students in total.  Every student had their own cajon, and the class 
>> was entirely in Spanish.  There were no familiar faces.  My wife and I had 
>> to play on the tops of our thighs.  My wife was familiar with all the 
>> rhythms, since she had many years of dancing experience, and was used to 
>> doing *palmas, *which is the clapping accompaniment that is done at 
>> flamenco shows. So she did fine.  Then there's me, desperately wanting to 
>> dig a hole in the ground to crawl into and never be heard from again.  I 
>> had Literally.  No.  Clue.  The only saving grace is that by being almost 
>> completely silent I was easy to ignore, so i didn't disrupt anybody else's 
>> experience.  Also, the experience was sufficiently humiliating to be 
>> humorous.  Something completely absurd at least gave me the solace "Well, 
>> this is going to make a good story".  
>>
>> There is definitely "pushing the limits" of one's comfort zone, and then 
>> there is "you do not belong here".  That first cajon experience was 
>> definitely the latter.  There's pushing oneself up a level, and there's 
>> imposter syndrome, pretending to belong when you probably don't (or 
>> thinking you don't belong when you actually do 

[RBW] Re: MUSAette: how small can you wad them up?

[Jason Fuller]

On this topic, I have been eyeing this one from Blue Lug - I'm still not 
sure if it hits your volume target but dyneema is probably the best 
possible material for the job. Certainly in the "will pay extra for fancy 
materials" category though.  
https://global.bluelug.com/fairweather-packable-sacoche-dyneema-gray.html

On Thursday, 11 May 2023 at 17:01:33 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> For that purpose I use the freebie backpack objects that come for free 
> with shoes.  
>
> My small Samsonite suitcases each came with one, with the intent that 
> you'll pack a pair of shoes in it
> My last pair of Rapha shoes came with one
> My last pair of Giro shoes came with one
> I see them at the Japanese import store for ~ two dollars
>
> It's a nylon drawstring bag, but there are two drawstrings and each 
> drawstring goes to a lower corner of the bag, so you can wear it as a 
> backpack.  If I Google "nylon string backpack" I see vendors selling them 
> for about a buck apiece.  Amazon has a package of 16 for $22.  
>
> The one I bought from the Japanese import store definitely packs to 
> smaller than 2" x 2" x 1".  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 11:42:06 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I like carrying a musette in my seatbags for ad hoc purchases, but my 
>> seatbags are small. Can you wad up a MUSAette into a 2'X2"X1" brick? Or 
>> smaller? Certainly no bigger.
>>
>> I do have 3 sizes of Timbukt2 and any number of Ortliebs and saddlebags, 
>> but I do like to ride bikes without luggage on occasion, and on these 
>> occasions I sometimes have second thoughts.
>>
>> I've been using Chuck Schmidt's VeloRetro musettes, but they're 10" X 
>> 14.5" versus 12.5" X 16" and made of thin polycotton. Pros: they wad up 
>> very small, and they have nice retro-graphics (Chuck offers custom 
>> graphics; I've had Berl Burton at speed and Reg Harris all out). Cons: 
>> size, cloth weight, they cost as much as the Riv bags: $29.50.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Homer Hilsen: Braking performance

[Jason Fuller]

What handlebar type are you setting it up with?  If going with a bar that 
uses MTB style levers such as Albatross, I would be much less concerned, 
because you have much better ergonomic mechanical advantage at the lever 
vs. being on the hoods of a drop bar lever.  I don't believe you'll have 
any issue, and if you did, you could rectify with either better pads or 
going to Paul Racers as mentioned. Then you're certainly well set up for 
mountains - after all Jan Heine prefers centerpulls over other types of 
brakes for his wet, mountain pass-heavy and mixed surface riding. 

On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 01:27:52 UTC-7 Hoch in ut wrote:

> I’m window shopping for the next project and was interested in the Homer. 
> Great looking frame. My only concern is the brakes. I live in a pretty 
> mountainous area. Meaning plenty of long, fast descents. 
>
> Those of you with Homers, how have you liked or disliked the brakes? Do 
> the 559’s give you adequate performance to descend with confidence? One 
> thing I do like about caliper brakes are how easy they are to set up and 
> adjust. 
> Thanks for any input. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jason Fuller]

Phew, heated brake debate! There isn't much else to talk about with the 
Charlie since we have no recent news, so it's a good use of this thread 
perhaps. 

I should clarify: I don't mind side-pull/caliper brakes from a performance 
standpoint, although the longer reach models required on this bike are not 
as good as medium and short reach models. For me it was the limitations 
that caliper brakes put on tire & fender clearance that is unfortunate. But 
the CHG is meant to be a road and light gravel bike so fitting even 38mm 
tires with fenders is fine in reality. I'm also using this bike in rain and 
snow so I wanted the extra power of V's as well as the extra fender 
clearance for knobby winter tires. But those are beyond the typical 
use-cases for this bike. 

I totally see the caliper-lover's point of view on this - there are a lot 
more canti stud Rivs than caliper Rivs these days. No doubt calipers look a 
little sleeker on a roadish bike too. Maybe as Scott suggests we'll see a 
"middle ground" swoop tube model in the future between the CHG and the 
Hillibikes. Wait ... that's basically the Platypus. Yeah, that's further 
support that the CHG probably should be caliper brake. I concede. 

On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 10:09:07 UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> In my experience, sidepulls are great as long as you only ride in the dry 
> and don’t plan on any emergency stops. 
>
> Eric
> Not a caliper fan
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
>> I have zero issues with the effectiveness of sidepulls. I used them for 
>> years and years. I just think that the cantiposts gives you a lot more 
>> options for brakes (cant's, v, or mini-v) AND allow for using larger tires.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> I remember back in the days before V-brakes and disc brakes when 
>>> numerous cyclo-tourists and Tour de France racers were going over cliffs on 
>>> mountain descents because sidepulls and centerpulls don't work - *N*
>>> *OT.*  
>>> But I do remember when you adjusted the toe-in of your brake pad by 
>>> twisting the caliper arms with a big crescent wrench in order to eliminate 
>>> squeal.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or v-brakes. 
>>>> I bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper brakes for 
>>>> my 
>>>> wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required V-brakes or Cantis as I 
>>>> have never been able to even replace brake pads on those without causing 
>>>> squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better than either of those 
>>>> for my riding style, though not as good as sidepulls. In any case, as Joe 
>>>> pointed out --- there are plenty of canti or v-brake bikes in the 
>>>> Rivendell 
>>>> lineup. No need to begrudge us sidepull fans 3 models.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 6:13:39 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use v-brakes 
>>>>> and sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. I don't 
>>>>> think the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from moving 
>>>>> closer 
>>>>> to the Hillborne's mission. 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road 
>>>>>> brakes won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs 
>>>>>> a 
>>>>>> mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are 
>>>>>> decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess 
>>>>>> they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the 
>>>>>> "designed 
>>>>>> for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes. 
>>>>>> This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from 
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls. 
>>>>>>> Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a 
>>>>>>> design 
>>>>>>&g

Re: [RBW] Re: New Sim Works Taco Pedals: Looks appealing

[Jason Fuller]

I agree Eric, this pedal appeals to me with the large platform and pinned 
construction. Also saw the Gordito frame and thought, YES this is a good 
use of that tooling!  I bought Allways for the Charlie (well, for the 
Wombat, but) and even though their platform is fairly roomy, they feel too 
small vs. the Monarchs which have become the gold standard for me. I would 
give these a go! 



On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:51:51 UTC-7 DavidP wrote:

> I use 5-10 Freeriders on my MTBs with pedals that have screw type pins 
> similar to those on the Vault pedals, and also have a few different types 
> of pinned pedals on other types of bikes.
>
> In my experience pins like those on the Taco pedals will work fine with 
> five-tens, but will not be quite as locked in as the smaller diameter screw 
> type pins on pedals like the Vault, which really dig into the 5/10s and 
> require lifting your foot to reposition.
>
> The Taco pedal pins split the difference between the above mentioned more 
> aggressive pins and the even less aggressive star/torx shaped pins that are 
> available on many (inexpensive) pedals marketed for more casual use.
>
> I have pedals with the less aggressive star/torx pins on my Platypus and 
> they work great with casual shoes (trail runners, vans type treads, etc.) 
> without tearing them up (or me if I brush against them). I tried using my 
> five-tens on these pedals and they weren't slippery but offered no 
> advantage to casual shoes, so I keep the 5-10s for dedicated MTB use.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 3:05:45 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My favorite pedal ever is the Simworks Bubbly. I have them on my Clem & 
>> they are really good for pavement & even light dirt/gravel. But, they just 
>> are not “sticky” enough (for me) on my Gus on singletrack  - I need pins. I 
>> built the Gus with leftover DMR Vault pedals. They are big enough and my 
>> 5/10 shoes do not move. But the Taco just plain looks so good & is slightly 
>> bigger than the vault. If I could be certain they will be as sticky as the 
>> Vault’s I would be trying to score a set.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 24, 2023, at 12:52 PM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>
>> There are so may great platform pedals out there right now that I am not 
>> sure there is reason for another one but its nice looking. I prefer the 
>> composite ones because of weight and the bundle of colors they come in. I 
>> think the bear trap is the best looking one right now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:31:22 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> More info here: https://sim-works.com/en/news/simworks-new-stuff-2023
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:30:41 AM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>>>
 Sim Works have a new pedal coming out. It's called the Taco. Looks like 
 a Sylvan Gordito pedal with more grip. 

 Seems like the kind of pedal many of us here would enjoy. 

 [image: taco2.png]

 [image: taco.png]

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>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell paint color repetition: Your thoughts

[Jason Fuller]

Wait, the Platys are coming in silver soon? Crap, I guess good thing I just 
got my Charlie back or I'd be dropping a bunch of money for that. 

I'm late to the conversation, but my read is that Grant & co spend a lot 
more time on color selection than is business-smart to do so, because they 
want it to be exactly right - so when they get one that passes a vote, they 
hang onto it. As for my opinion about it, I like how they do it because if 
you love a certain color, you just have to be patient for it to come to 
your preferred model - or, conversely, if you like a model but not the 
available colors, you'll hopefully be accommodated on the next batch.  I do 
think that colors should be retired every few years for new ones though! 

On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:56:19 UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> Yes, Joe...you have a great color scheme there...which is a good thing 
> because we see a lot of it...and  that's totally OK. I like looking at it
>
> I really like the harvest gold; got it in 2001 when it was fairly unusual, 
> but offered as a custom color. Looks different depending on light(sunlight 
> vs cloud). I agree with Laing that a butter yellow would be great, 
> especially if it had panels and headtube in a root beer or coffee color. 
> The standard cream would get lost because there's not enough contrast. I 
> absolutely do not need  another custom but if I were in the market and Riv 
> still offered customs, I think that I could go for that.
>
> I do like Leah's Raspberry and that mermaid color is quite attractive too. 
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 10:48:21 AM UTC-5 Miles T wrote:
>
>> I’m a sucker for metallic colors… it’s like you get 2 for 1. A metallic 
>> colored bike looks totally different in overcast weather vs a sunny day. 
>> But the solid colors are great too. That dark green on the Clem “H” models 
>> a while back is one of my favorite colors on any riv. At this point, they 
>> have a wide selection of colors and I like seeing them pop up on different 
>> models over time.
>>
>> I love that scheme on your custom, Joe. Especially that cream outline on 
>> the red accents. 
>>
>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:39:47 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I'll throw down for the gloss non-metallics here cuz it's what I chose 
>>> for my custom. I like it!* 
>>>
>>> *I like metallics, too. I'm easy 
>>>
>>> [image: Screenshot_20230423_083601.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 7:48:02 AM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Crust Bombora owner here, so I have no reservations whatsoever about 
 pink / lilac / weird colored bikes. The more the better!
 Personally, I agree with Leah in that I find the Rivendell colors look 
 best when they're sparklin'. The only non-metallic Riv color I've ever 
 been 
 attracted to is that mustard color of the Clem / Appaloosa. I'd like to 
 see 
 them move away from the non-metallic oranges and blues... and I'd love to 
 see more of the weird gold, mustard-y tones and maybe more variations on 
 silver.

 On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 9:14:07 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I would buy a pink step through if they came out with one.
>
> On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 9:22:00 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>
>> I am fortunate to own a Rambouillet in the first paint edition - the 
>> sparkling metallic orange.  I've had many complements on it not just 
>> from 
>> other cyclists, but also from random on-lookers, as well.  Some of these 
>> have even said that they'd love to see a vintage vehicle of their choice 
>> repainted with the Nova Orange base coat and the Spanish Gold clear 
>> coat.  
>> It's hard to beat.
>> On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 3:39:48 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello friends — I've noticed that over the past few years Rivendell 
>>> have been using some of the same paint colors on many frames through 
>>> several production runs. If there's been a discussion of this practice, 
>>> I've missed it. 
>>>
>>> I can't quite put my finger on it but something about the same paint 
>>> appearing on frames over and over leaves me scratching my head. Perhaps 
>>> there's a missed opportunity to pin a color to a model or to cycle in 
>>> new 
>>> colors with new batches of frames? 
>>>
>>> What do other members think? Do you appreciate the same colors 
>>> appearing on different frames? Do you wish there was a wider variety of 
>>> colors? Does it matter at all? 
>>>
>>> Some of these colors I like quite a lot, others I appreciate. There 
>>> isn't one that I dislike. The Lime Olive is always striking when it 
>>> appears 
>>> on a new frame, love it on the Hillbornes and Clems. 
>>>
>>> The harvest gold, wow, looks killer on those Susies. Blew my mind on 
>>> the Homers because they've always been a blue bike. 
>>>
>>> I do 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jason Fuller]

Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little heavier 
than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the frame where 
I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is secured it 
sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because they're in the waiting 
phase now. 

On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other bikes. 
> It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular purposes. 
>
> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted 
> folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:
>
>> I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie project and 
>> he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. Hopefully this will 
>> happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a daily commuter to 
>> complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy hauler, whereas 
>> the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.
>>
>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold mine 
>>> around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from the 
>>> friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly to 
>>> before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
>>> crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged 
>>> back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
>>> everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now the 
>>> Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be reconfigured 
>>> to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 
>>>
>>> I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still on 
>>> the books?? 
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm 
>>>> extension (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the 
>>>> the minimum insertion line 
>>>>
>>>> Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so 
>>>> maybe that will work better for me.
>>>>
>>>> Max
>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
>>>>> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
>>>>> [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
>>>>> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will 
>>>>> again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too 
>>>>> which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are 
>>>>> pretty cozy so I'll try them both.  
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, changed stems:
>>>>>> Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
>>>>>> Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the 
>>>>>> minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of 
>>>>>> min 
>>>>>> insertion line. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle 
>>>>>> almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my 
>>>>>> Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to 
>>>>>> pull 
>>>>>> on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm 
>>>>>> of 
>>>>>> stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about 
>>>>>> knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. 
>>>>>> And I 
>>>>>> wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd 
>>>>>> with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus 
>>>>>

[RBW] Re: Pamela Murray: Bike Hero

[Jason Fuller]

I've watched the video twice and will probably watch it a third time at 
some point. Even though I ride almost everyday as well, I always learn 
something or at least gain fresh perspective from someone else who does as 
well - and Pam's insights run especially deep as someone who's put 
themselves in other people's shoes a lot for education purposes!  Plus, I 
am always impressed by the "carry shit olympics" and 1001 ways to use the 
Irish strap. 

I have said it many times, to many people, but there is no Riv I find more 
inspiring than that Betty Foy, too! It's ironic, for sure, that I've spent 
so much money (that should be in my retirement savings) on an assortment of 
well-appointed bikes but deep down what I really appreciate is a 
heavily-used and immensely practical bike - and Pam's Betty is at the top 
of the podium for me.  

I ride about 4000 miles per year, give or take, but since I'm splitting 
that mileage across a handful of bikes (and usually a one- or two-bike 
rotation each year) the highest mileage bike I have is the Hillborne at 
~5300 miles or 8400 km.  The Bombadil is runner up at ~4000 miles, and 
these are the highest numbers I've ever put on a bike except for probably 
my teenage Marin 90's MTB that I rode every day for ten years well before 
the likes of Strava.  

On Wednesday, 5 April 2023 at 22:30:28 UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

> Pam, you rock!  That's just the most awesome thing at a time when people 
> like you and events like this are needed so badly.  Hero is right.   Leah, 
> thanks for posting this - you rock too.  
>
> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 8:34:40 PM UTC-6 jan.ot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Very inspiring indeed. Congratulations Pam!
>>
>> Jan
>> San Francisco, CA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: "You need 7 bikes" article

[Jason Fuller]

I feel like I'm in good company in this thread!  Current fleet is at six, 
which I feel is excessive, but at the same time each bike stands apart from 
the others in terms of function. I would like to get it back to five by the 
end of the year, but this plan involves selling two bikes I love, so we'll 
see.  It would mean selling the Wombat, which I only got a couple months 
ago, and my Raleigh Twenty, which I've had for fifteen years. The bike I'd 
plan to add in is a Clem L, so the Bombadil can be relieved from "everyday 
bike" duties and shed its fenders and (some) racks, and focus on mixed 
terrain adventures. 

On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 08:37:43 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> It's in the thread, scroll up and look harder. It's not an article, it's a 
> small sidebar. 
>
> On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 8:55:40 PM UTC-4 Mike Godwin wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have a scan of the You Need 7 Bikes article? Need for a 
>> friend. Not me, no spouse, and I'm almost there with two frame/forks 
>> hanging on the wall. 
>>
>> Mike SLO CA
>>
>> On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 9:48:56 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> In my garage, I have:
>>>
>>> 1. Custom touring bike
>>> 2. Rivendell Roadini
>>> 3. Airborne Seeker MTB
>>> 4. Co-Motion Tandem/Triplet/Quad Periscope
>>> 5. Wife's Cheviot
>>> 6. Wife's Santa Cruz 5010 MTB
>>> 7. 11-year-old's MTB
>>> 8. 7-year-old's MTB
>>>
>>> For many years I lived with just 1 road bike (the ti custom), but after 
>>> I broke 2 of those frames, I've decided having a backup road bike (which is 
>>> what the Roadini is) is not a bad idea at all --- I hated 3 months of 
>>> riding the MTB around as my only single bike, though it did force me to 
>>> find all the interesting off-pavement trails around here. Now the Roadini 
>>> is shod with 40mm Terraspeed and gets used as a gravel bike, but if the Ti 
>>> frame breaks again I can put nice wheels on it and it'll be a fast road 
>>> bike/touring bike again. I will note that the Roadini probably can't be 
>>> used long term as a touring bike as the long chainstays probably means 
>>> packing it into a case will be a nightmare.
>>> On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 7:28:58 AM UTC-7 Tom Palmer wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Eric. That is it. I thought it was a longer article. i really 
 appreciate the effort. 

 I guess I need 14, since I have 6 mountain bikes on top of my 7 road 
 and dirt road bikes. 
 Not up to Mr. Lindsay, as far as curating them all to perfection, but 
 it is a goal. 
 There was also a thread a while back on listing and justifying your 
 bikes, but I could not find that either, but it may have been on iBob. 

 Thanks for all the interesting responses.

 Tom


 On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 8:16:47 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hi Tom — This appeared as a little blurb in Rivendell Reader No. 42 on 
> page 6 (online in the Rivendell archive here 
> ). 
>
> [image: Screenshot 2023-03-29 at 8.14.15 PM.png]
>
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 8:45:16 AM UTC-4 Tom Palmer wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I recall an article by Grant about the number of bike a person needs 
>> with justification. I think it was 7.
>>  Any idea which reader it was in?
>> Thanks!
>> Tom Palmer
>> Twin Lake, MI
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Jason Fuller]

My sense with Rivs is that Grant builds bikes for how he likes to ride, and 
on his local terrain. That sounds selfish and limited in a sense, but I 
think it's what makes the bikes so great too - they're not trying to find 
some balance for all sorts of different scenarios, so they're afforded the 
freedom to really live up to their potential. 

While I've never ridden with Grant, he doesn't strike me as the 
stand-and-mash type :)   

Those long stays with a spinny gear are a joy to climb with, even with the 
relatively slack STA, but like you say, it kind of goes against our 
reflexes coming from things like fixed gear bikes and the like.  I rode 
Loscos for a bit and they were a lot more ergonomic to hold further forward 
when climbing out of saddle vs a Bosco, while still giving the same 
cruising position (with more stem height). Good bars but I am long torso'd 
so they didn't work for me. Sorry to say I don't have them anymore - but 
you should try this Billie on my wall ;) 

On Friday, 17 March 2023 at 10:40:15 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I think your question was clear! My custom with Boscos feels great for 
> sitting and spinning up a hill, if I get to a place where I need to stand I 
> prefer getting off and walking for a minute. There's one route to the 
> market and back here where I always walk one steep part and it's become my 
> walk-and-ride, I enjoy it! 
>
> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:51:01 AM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> I guess I should have made a disclaimer I am not looking for tips on fit 
>> or technique. As Patrick mentioned I am just actually generally interested 
>> in your physical adaptation of physical technique with evolving bicycle 
>> geometry. 
>>
>> I love the clementine. It's the best climbing bike ive owned, and the 
>> fore - aft gives a lot of position variety. I am not going to gain any 
>> KOM's but I love the stability and traction for steep and loose climbing vs 
>> normal geometry. 
>>
>> with my sized up clem jr i do find more ability to stand, but dont feel 
>> strongly it's necessarily better for climbing, but its kind of comparing 
>> oranges and grapefruits. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 2:48:46 PM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mackenzy — I find it uncomfortable to pedal out of the saddle for 
>>> more than a few strokes with my hands in the primary grip position on swept 
>>> back bars. With a grip in the 'hooks' of the bars on Albatross, Billie or 
>>> Ron's Ortho bars it's no problem for me. I've installed Boscos on a bike I 
>>> built up for a friend and found that the secondary or hooks position ahead 
>>> of the levers was not very good for climbing or spirited riding. 
>>>
>>> I would think given the height of your bars, the tilt of your bars 
>>> making the grip almost parallel with the ground and the general shape of 
>>> Boscos that climbing out of the saddle would be uncomfortable and a little 
>>> unnatural. 
>>>
>>> I see you have your stem pretty low, do you wish for lower bars? If so 
>>> you might consider the Losco or the Billie, they're both plenty wide with 
>>> lots of sweep back but much less rise. 
>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 3:08:56 PM UTC-4 DavidP wrote:
>>>
 Hey Damon - It's a Nitto UI-12 quill stem. This is a welded cromo, -19 
 deg, 31.8 clamp, removeable faceplate stem. Not quite as nice and 
 definitely not as tall as the brazed Nitto faceplate stems (CR60-3F) that 
 Riv stocks, but my fit didn't need the extra height and I liked the look 
 and reach of a horizontal stem extension.

 I've attached a closeup photo of the stem and bars (taken during the 
 build, before the shifters were cabled). Note the stem height is just 
 about 
 max'd where I have it and many will want something with more rise.

 -Dave

 On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 12:21:48 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> I have not felt comfortable standing on the pedals in many years. I 
> sit and spin regardless of the type of bike. On a single speed, I will 
> dismount and walk when the slope is too steep - not often the case in 
> Florida.
>
> I seem to remember a top cyclist from years ago advocating for sitting 
> and spinning, but I cannot remember who it was.
>
> Laing
>


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[RBW] Re: cycling attire for cold rain

[Jason Fuller]

That's interesting, I might give some a shot this spring. I get the feeling 
that much colder than low 40's would be too cold for most Neoprene options 
but I don't really know. Usually when it's 45+F I am pretty happy with wool 
and a shell that's at least waterproof enough to keep the majority of water 
out - not much ends up being truly waterproof in those conditions.  I can 
certainly believe that the water-going folks are onto something though. 

On Friday, 17 March 2023 at 07:39:34 UTC-7 Jim S. wrote:

> Folks on this board might already have this information, but it was a 
> revelation to me.
>
> It was 48 and heavily raining on, Tuesday I think, riding from Goleta to 
> Oxnard, CA. We (my son and I) were uncomfortably cold, with many miles to 
> go.
>
> We came upon a surfing shop. I know nothing about surfing or scuba, but I 
> bought the socks, gloves, and a hat that surfers wear with their wetsuits. 
> Wow, what a game changer. We were instantly comfortable. For heavy rain in 
> cold weather, neoprene is great for cycling. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: PONCHOS!!!

[Jason Fuller]

Yeah, ponchos are for "in case of rain" use in my opinion - and no
replacement for rain kit when there's 100% chance of rain.  Another good
use for them is short rides in the rain so you can simply pull the poncho
off and be wearing your 'normal' clothes straight away. It even keeps your
feet pretty dry if your fender coverage is sufficient, so you don't need an
entire change of clothes for a ten minute ride.

On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 12:33 PM Will Boericke  wrote:

> I ride in the rain frequently (commuter).  I tried it in a poncho once.
> It sucked.
>
> Perhaps there are bike specific ponchos that miraculously reclaim this
> experience through some technological innovations, but it was loud, wet,
> and annoying.
>
> Will
>
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 2:43:10 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Brian,
>>
>> Yes.. I hesitated a moment on the recommendation for that point, and I
>> too consider it an important topic - I didn't realize until after I owned
>> it and had used it - but also didn't want to send your topic into too much
>> of a tangent :)
>>
>> Several of my riding buddies have the Cleverhood poncho and love it. My
>> partner has a waxed canvas poncho from Bramble and Mr Twigg but it hasn't
>> seen much use yet to comment on performance. Avoiding plastics is a
>> priority for me as much as possible, but the heavier weight of waxed canvas
>> isn't ideal for a poncho imo.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 11:29 AM Brian Forsee  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the info all... I've been wanting to give a poncho a try.
>>>
>>> Jason.. on your list of cons how wide is 'wide'? Although I may just
>>> skip the peoples based on your ownership comment. I appreciate you
>>> including that information in your review. I suspect lots of Riv customers
>>> subscribe to the 'vote-with-your' dollar mentality.
>>>
>>> If anyone is holding a Riv/Grundens that would fit a 6'-2" human give me
>>> a shout :)
>>>
>>> Brian in Saint Louis
>>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 1:01:42 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have and use the People's Poncho - it's been getting plenty of use
>>>> this past week, in fact!
>>>>
>>>> Pro's:
>>>> - Keeps you impressively dry, even in heavier rain
>>>> - Waist strap and hand loops work well to keep it in place as you ride
>>>> - Front pocket is pretty useful and has proven fully waterproof for me
>>>> - Packs small and fits into its stuff sack with ease
>>>>
>>>> Con's:
>>>> - Can't pull it over my head with my helmet on; a quarter zip would
>>>> have been nice for this
>>>> - Like any poncho, it gets real flappy over 25 kph
>>>> - Doesn't work as well with wide bars, or drop bars, or long reach ...
>>>> suits a typical Riv fit nice though!
>>>> - I find it hard on the neck if you use the hood, as the 'sail' like
>>>> effect tugs on your head then .. so I just don't use the hood
>>>> - Not performance related but .. the company is owned by white folks,
>>>> and they've appropriated culture for the purpose of profit.. not really
>>>> cool.
>>>>
>>>> Overall I'd recommend it, though - really happy I have it. If it's 100%
>>>> rainy out I will instead opt for rain pants and a rain shell, not the
>>>> poncho, for better mobility and less fuss.  Also less dorky I think :)  But
>>>> for days where you might not need rain protection, but you also might, it's
>>>> perfect.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 08:55:55 UTC-8 Stephen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I just got my first bike poncho recently from a list member after
>>>>> being poncho curious for awhile. Its the yellow grundens variety that
>>>>> Rivendell used to sell but I do not think it is made anymore. It has 
>>>>> served
>>>>> me very well in the few pours I've worn it in, along with fenders being
>>>>> crucial. When I was looking at purchasing a poncho new I was leaning
>>>>> towards the waxed canvas one made by Carradice as I try to avoid plastics
>>>>> and synthetics, the only downsides to it being a drab and dark color for
>>>>> urban riding, and potentially a little heavier. For my basket I've just
>>>>> used my sackville shop sack, and haven't had anything too important in the
>>>>> bag. Water definitely gets in the zipper opening. I've thought a shop sack
>>>>> combined

Re: [RBW] Re: PONCHOS!!!

[Jason Fuller]

Brian,

Yes.. I hesitated a moment on the recommendation for that point, and I too
consider it an important topic - I didn't realize until after I owned it
and had used it - but also didn't want to send your topic into too much of
a tangent :)

Several of my riding buddies have the Cleverhood poncho and love it. My
partner has a waxed canvas poncho from Bramble and Mr Twigg but it hasn't
seen much use yet to comment on performance. Avoiding plastics is a
priority for me as much as possible, but the heavier weight of waxed canvas
isn't ideal for a poncho imo.

On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 11:29 AM Brian Forsee  wrote:

> Thanks for the info all... I've been wanting to give a poncho a try.
>
> Jason.. on your list of cons how wide is 'wide'? Although I may just skip
> the peoples based on your ownership comment. I appreciate you including
> that information in your review. I suspect lots of Riv customers subscribe
> to the 'vote-with-your' dollar mentality.
>
> If anyone is holding a Riv/Grundens that would fit a 6'-2" human give me a
> shout :)
>
> Brian in Saint Louis
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 1:01:42 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I have and use the People's Poncho - it's been getting plenty of use this
>> past week, in fact!
>>
>> Pro's:
>> - Keeps you impressively dry, even in heavier rain
>> - Waist strap and hand loops work well to keep it in place as you ride
>> - Front pocket is pretty useful and has proven fully waterproof for me
>> - Packs small and fits into its stuff sack with ease
>>
>> Con's:
>> - Can't pull it over my head with my helmet on; a quarter zip would have
>> been nice for this
>> - Like any poncho, it gets real flappy over 25 kph
>> - Doesn't work as well with wide bars, or drop bars, or long reach ...
>> suits a typical Riv fit nice though!
>> - I find it hard on the neck if you use the hood, as the 'sail' like
>> effect tugs on your head then .. so I just don't use the hood
>> - Not performance related but .. the company is owned by white folks, and
>> they've appropriated culture for the purpose of profit.. not really cool.
>>
>> Overall I'd recommend it, though - really happy I have it. If it's 100%
>> rainy out I will instead opt for rain pants and a rain shell, not the
>> poncho, for better mobility and less fuss.  Also less dorky I think :)  But
>> for days where you might not need rain protection, but you also might, it's
>> perfect.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 08:55:55 UTC-8 Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> I just got my first bike poncho recently from a list member after being
>>> poncho curious for awhile. Its the yellow grundens variety that Rivendell
>>> used to sell but I do not think it is made anymore. It has served me very
>>> well in the few pours I've worn it in, along with fenders being crucial.
>>> When I was looking at purchasing a poncho new I was leaning towards the
>>> waxed canvas one made by Carradice as I try to avoid plastics and
>>> synthetics, the only downsides to it being a drab and dark color for urban
>>> riding, and potentially a little heavier. For my basket I've just used my
>>> sackville shop sack, and haven't had anything too important in the bag.
>>> Water definitely gets in the zipper opening. I've thought a shop sack
>>> combined with a smaller backpack style rain cover over the top like a
>>> shower cap would be a good combo for keeping things dry.
>>>
>>> -Stephen
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 10:02:10 PM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dazzle camo on a rain cape is a bold move! I love it! Those drivers
>>>> can’t tell how big or small you are, or what direction you’re headed… might
>>>> as well mess with ‘em!
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 6, 2023, at 8:42 PM, Roberta  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> More riding to you!  ponchos are great for short jaunts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I don’t like riding in the rain but if it’s not too bad I’ll ride home
>>>> from work wearing my CleverHood Cape, dazzle print in the tall size
>>>> for more coverage
>>>> https://cleverhood.com/products/rover-rain-cape?variant=40416266715341
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Roberta
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 5:57:13 PM UTC-5 ack...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>> Rainy season is almost over in the Bay Area, but I'm going to be try
>>>>> and be more prepared next year.  I am looking at ponchos, and I have
>>>>> decid

Re: [RBW] Re: PONCHOS!!!

[Jason Fuller]

I have and use the People's Poncho - it's been getting plenty of use this 
past week, in fact!  

Pro's: 
- Keeps you impressively dry, even in heavier rain 
- Waist strap and hand loops work well to keep it in place as you ride
- Front pocket is pretty useful and has proven fully waterproof for me 
- Packs small and fits into its stuff sack with ease

Con's: 
- Can't pull it over my head with my helmet on; a quarter zip would have 
been nice for this 
- Like any poncho, it gets real flappy over 25 kph
- Doesn't work as well with wide bars, or drop bars, or long reach ... 
suits a typical Riv fit nice though!
- I find it hard on the neck if you use the hood, as the 'sail' like effect 
tugs on your head then .. so I just don't use the hood 
- Not performance related but .. the company is owned by white folks, and 
they've appropriated culture for the purpose of profit.. not really cool. 

Overall I'd recommend it, though - really happy I have it. If it's 100% 
rainy out I will instead opt for rain pants and a rain shell, not the 
poncho, for better mobility and less fuss.  Also less dorky I think :)  But 
for days where you might not need rain protection, but you also might, it's 
perfect.  

On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 08:55:55 UTC-8 Stephen wrote:

> I just got my first bike poncho recently from a list member after being 
> poncho curious for awhile. Its the yellow grundens variety that Rivendell 
> used to sell but I do not think it is made anymore. It has served me very 
> well in the few pours I've worn it in, along with fenders being crucial. 
> When I was looking at purchasing a poncho new I was leaning towards the 
> waxed canvas one made by Carradice as I try to avoid plastics and 
> synthetics, the only downsides to it being a drab and dark color for urban 
> riding, and potentially a little heavier. For my basket I've just used my 
> sackville shop sack, and haven't had anything too important in the bag. 
> Water definitely gets in the zipper opening. I've thought a shop sack 
> combined with a smaller backpack style rain cover over the top like a 
> shower cap would be a good combo for keeping things dry.
>
> -Stephen
>
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 10:02:10 PM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Dazzle camo on a rain cape is a bold move! I love it! Those drivers can’t 
>> tell how big or small you are, or what direction you’re headed… might as 
>> well mess with ‘em!
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2023, at 8:42 PM, Roberta  wrote:
>>
>> More riding to you!  ponchos are great for short jaunts.
>>
>>
>>  I don’t like riding in the rain but if it’s not too bad I’ll ride home 
>> from work wearing my CleverHood Cape, dazzle print in the tall size for 
>> more coverage 
>> https://cleverhood.com/products/rover-rain-cape?variant=40416266715341  
>>
>> Roberta
>>
>>
>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 5:57:13 PM UTC-5 ack...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all, 
>>> Rainy season is almost over in the Bay Area, but I'm going to be try and 
>>> be more prepared next year.  I am looking at ponchos, and I have decided 
>>> that the PEOPLE'S PONCHO is the one I'm going to buy.  But, I'd love to 
>>> hear/see what everybody else is rocking for their rainy day full coverage 
>>> (including front basket and bag) rain gear.  I know there are going to be 
>>> varied responses here, but I'm hoping we can focus on PONCHOS
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading,
>>> Alex
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Pedal Question

[Jason Fuller]

My instinct is that has a lot more to do with the shoes, ie not well 
supported arches maybe?  I found that long pedals like the MKS Monarch or 
the Bubbly were a gamechanger for foot comfort vs. shorter flat pedals, but 
probably because I am always riding in shoes that are objectively too soft 
for long distance riding. The Bubbly isn't the grippiest pedal, because it 
has no pins, but it's very grippy for a non-pinned and is easily the most 
comfortable pedal I've ridden  

On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 22:36:55 UTC-8 swar...@gmail.com wrote:

> Since it seems like people here are pretty experienced with flat pedals 
> I'll ask a question.
> I ride flats all the time, but I find that on especially long rides (100+ 
> mi) or if I'm putting out too much power (like straining up a hill) I start 
> to get foot pain.
> Does anyone have good recommendations for flat pedals that are better on 
> the feet (I'm a US 10.5 shoe size) - or advice for avoiding foot cramping 
> or pain?
>
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 10:05 PM Luke Hendrickson  
> wrote:
>
>> Platforms > clipless IMO. I’ve ridden both and like less hassle and fewer 
>> impediments to hopping on a bike. Should you not wish to listen to a 
>> stranger on the Internet and wish to go full steam ahead, I suggest SPDs 
>> especially since, were one to break out on the road, replacement cleats or 
>> screws are readily available at most LBSs. Many other clipless pedal 
>> options are not. 
>>
>> On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 11:46:09 AM UTC-8 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Ted, clipless pedals are not useful for most of the riding 
>>> I do. That riding consists of commuting, trail riding, long and fast-ish 
>>> road rides, and both paved and off-road touring. The only time I still use 
>>> clipless pedals is for racing (which I do just a little of); platforms are 
>>> much better the rest of the time. Maybe I don't care about foot attachment 
>>> as much as some people, considering that I'm also a telemark skier, but I 
>>> think having your foot solidly attached is overrated. I think a lot of the 
>>> time people do it because they feel like they have to or it's what everyone 
>>> else is doing, even when there's not a good reason to- that was me for 
>>> years before I realized how good flat pedals are. Getting a nice pair of 
>>> pedals helped too- I got a good deal on some thin Crank Brothers platforms 
>>> with good spikes and nice bearings and they made me like flat pedals a lot 
>>> more.
>>>
>>> That being said, if you really want to try clipless pedals, I recommend 
>>> Time ATACs. They're the only clipless pedals I've used for the last few 
>>> years after moving away from SPDs and (eewww) Look road pedals, and I like 
>>> them for the float and the reasonably supportive pedal body as well as for 
>>> their performance in muddy conditions (I do race some cyclocross). SPDs 
>>> work fine too though, and maybe cheaper and easier to find.
>>>
>>> Josiah Anderson
>>> Missoula, MT
>>>
>>> Le dim. 19 févr. 2023 à 07:22, Ted Durant  a écrit :
>>>
 On Saturday, February 18, 2023 at 9:17:48 AM UTC-5 Dick Pahle wrote:
 trust  its ok to ask for product recomendation here. been riding with 
 toe clips forever and ready to switch to clipless. anyone here have 
 thoughts about a good pedal for a beginner. something easy to get in and 
 out of. i get indegestion looking at all the different kinds/styles/types. 

 Okay, I'll be the first to say it ... don't bother! I use Crank 
 Brothers eggbeater pedals on most of my bikes, and I'm about to put some 
 flat pedals on one of my regulars and do a fair amount of riding without 
 bindings to see if I really still want them. I started going down the 
 no-binding path a while ago, but much of my riding was commuting and I 
 actually liked bindings for being able to accelerate quickly in traffic. 
 If 
 I was doing any group riding, I'd still want them, and for that reason 
 even 
 if I ditch the eggbeaters for most of my bikes, I will still keep them on 
 my "group ride" bike (my Riv Road). 

 That said, I've been very happy with eggbeaters because 1) they're 
 super easy entry and exit (as long as you replace the cleats regularly), 
 2) 
 low profile cleats with lots of walkable shoe options, 3)there's no 
 tension 
 adjustment required and the shoe-cleat-pedal interface is secure as long 
 as 
 you replace the cleats regularly and use shims as needed, 4) choice of 
 fixed or floating cleats (I prefer fixed), 5) no extra weight. You do want 
 shoes with fairly stiff soles, because the pedal itself offers no support. 
 On the down side, they don't have a flat/binding two-sided option, but 
 that 
 hasn't been an issue for me. I have a box full of old Shimano pedals and 
 cleats. I could never get happy with the shoe-cleat-pedal interface, it 
 was 
 always too loose and 

[RBW] Re: 650b or 700 Bombadil frame question

[Jason Fuller]

I need to get Laing to set up my cantis for me :)  I have found V's to have 
significantly more power and tend to save my hands on hillier terrain as a 
result.  I run Motolites on my Bombadil (and I have the canti bridge just 
hanging there.. doesn't look too weird though) and while they do become a 
clearance limitation when you're trying to fit larger fenders, they'll 
clear anything that fits the Bombadil.  I wouldn't go more than 2.4 or 2.5 
with V's although I see Riv and Crust promoting larger; and biggest fender 
combo I would try is a Flat 65 with 2.1 or 2.2. 

I will say, after running a couple sets of Motolites and most recently 
setting up and riding a pair of Avid V brakes ... the Avids work just as 
well and are even easier to set up. They just lack fanciness. 

Jason 

On Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 05:29:32 UTC-8 lconley wrote:

> The stem is the Nitto DirtDrop 100mm.
> I went with the widest 660mm Towel Racks.
>
> Big tires, big fenders with clearance to the tires and V-brakes tend not 
> to play well together. I have V-brakes on several of my bikes and I don't 
> really see any real advantage to them over cantilevers, unless you consider 
> ugly an advantage. The cantilevers work just as well and have all the 
> fender clearance that you could want. I am waiting for Rene Herse to get 
> their cable hangers back in stock to get one for the Bombadil.
>
> Laing
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Something else I have now started to realize is that cantilevers are more 
>> likely to rub against a handlebar bag. Are V-Brakes preferred for this 
>> reason?
>>
>> Laing, what stem are you using with the towel racks on the bombadil? 
>> Also, how wide did you go?
>>
>> I'm reconsidering my Riv Bullmoose choice and wondering whether towel 
>> racks (660) or a spank flare 25 bar is a better way to go. 
>>
>> I plan on running a BXB goldback bag in the front
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Max
>>
>> On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 2:47:11 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> I use only cantilevers and basically will always ! Good ol' smooth post 
>>> cantilevers that clear the frame as opened and open all the way. No silly 
>>> overly long and offset pads that add nothing to the braking performance. I 
>>> take a certain delight(albeit comical and always good for a laugh in just 
>>> thinking it), in denigrating v-brakes and certain cantilever designs, 
>>> including making/selling/defending frames without rear cable stop bridges. 
>>> Call it what you will, as so have I. ((( laughing )))  Nevertheless, it 
>>> stands. I could also speak about how "the industry" is their own worst 
>>> enemy, in fact, their only enemy and the customer but a witness. 
>>>
>>> I remember not long ago before the Clem Riv couldn't give a v-brake 
>>> away. Then with disc brakes becoming the thing, and dwindling proper canti 
>>> manufacture and design , it didn't leave them much choice as the frame was 
>>> a sales hit. It's like drinking a brand of beer you really don't like, but 
>>> because the wife loves it, and you love the wife's company, you swallow 
>>> your taste buds,one   bitter   chugatatime.   "Ain't this 
>>> beer great ?   said with crooked broken smile and whose eyes betold another 
>>> story. 
>>>
>>> What's life without a couple of good ol' stories ?   teeheehee . 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So sure Max, Anything but a cantilever on your Bombadil would leave you 
>>> without any brake at all :-) 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Snow? In California??

[Jason Fuller]

It's pretty neat to see the Joe Custom in the snow... not something I ever 
expected to see. I went for a ride today that was _supposed_ to become a 
snow ride based on the forecast, but it was just those tiny frozen pellets 
that just pummelled my eyeballs but didn't accumulate.  However, since my 
afternoon ride there has been three inches (and counting) of snow 
accumulation.  So tomorrow I shall get out for some "Riv winter riding" 
photos (unless I take the mountain bike instead... which is likely at this 
rate) 

On Saturday, 25 February 2023 at 17:49:26 UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I should have ridden my Roadini today, but I hadn't planned on the road 
> closure on highway 9 changing my plans --- I ended up riding over the top 
> of Black Mountain instead. The Roadini with 38mm tires would have made 
> short work of the traverse from Montebello Raod to Page Mill road, but 
> instead I had to do a bit of walking on my Ti frame:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/jByQDSJXSCW5J2ZvnBqXaA.YOnzpq3Ogen0W4B7u1g_hr
>
> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 4:46:42 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Yes indeed! So I did what must be done. I rode my Riv. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> [image: Screenshot_20230224_164337.jpg][image: 
>> Screenshot_20230224_164346.jpg]
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike rack suggestions

[Jason Fuller]

I have one of these Swagman racks that have fender-friendly trays and then 
a hook that clamps down on the top tube - and works totally fine with 
step-thru frames as the hook can all the way down to the bottom if it needs 
to.  We use it with my partner's fendered dutch bikes and any of my bikes 
(except the 20" wheels and 
smaller) 
https://www.swagman.ca/collections/hitch-mount-racks/products/xtc2-hitch-mount

On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 11:09:24 UTC-8 Lucky wrote:

> Hey! That’s cool, thanks Scott. Time to make some fender cushions.
>
> On Feb 20, 2023, at 10:56, greenteadrinkers  wrote:
>
> If your car has a hitch with a 2" receiver and you can afford it, don't 
> waste your money on anything other than a 1Up. You can get a single-bike 
> heavy-duty rack for $430, the rack is expandable for up to 4 bikes, with 
> each bike weighing no more than 50 lbs.
>
> https://www.1up-usa.com/product/quik-rack-single/
>
> 1Up also offers a solution to accommodate fenders, which cost $13 per 
> wheel: 
> https://www.1up-usa.com/product/fender-cushion/
>
> IMO, don't waste your time or money on anything else.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 12:20:41 PM UTC-5 Lucky wrote:
>
>> I have a 1up also and have experienced interference with the fenders and 
>> the front rack/basket. I’m not sure any ideal combo of rack exists if you 
>> have these things on your bike. I certainly tried to find a solution that 
>> keeps the bike off the roof, and keeps bikes from rubbing/banging together. 
>> The 1up was the closest I could find to ideal. 
>>
>> On Feb 20, 2023, at 09:15, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hi Jacob—it looks like the rear wheel bar on the 1up would crunch on my 
>> full coverage rear fender. What do you think?
>>
>> I use a Yakima roof rack with Raptor bars with a claw for my wife’s 
>> Betty, but those racks don’t seem to be sold anymore.
>>
>> Another alternative is a trunk rack with a top tube adapter for step 
>> throughs/mixtes.
>>
>> I bought a bar but have never needed to use it yet. Has anyone had any 
>> luck with those?
>>
>> Toshi in Oakland 
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 4:30 AM Jacob Byard  wrote:
>>
>> I’ve got a 1up and a Thule t2. The Thule would not work with fenders. My 
>>> 1pu is the single bike option and does a great job. Here’s a pic with an xl 
>>> Gus. Road solid for about 50 miles of interstate and country roads. 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Jacob
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 20, 2023, at 7:10 AM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> If I had to do it all over, I’d definitely go with a 1up rack. My Küat 
>>> NV2.0 is great, and I’m fine with how it works with fenders and racks… but 
>>> I feel like a 1up would be more secure in those cases. Also, my Medium Gus 
>>> at 50” wheelbase is the absolute maximum length the Küat will handle.
>>>
>>> On Feb 20, 2023, at 1:05 AM, JAS  wrote:
>>>
>>> The 1Up rack has worked really well for me too.  It's spendy, but well 
>>> made and has worked well with my Clem, Platypus and Bike Friday (all have 
>>> fenders).
>>>
>>> Joyce
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 9:38:15 PM UTC-8 JW wrote:
>>>
 We love our 1UP rack and it works pretty well with fenders.

 On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 9:24:08 PM UTC-8 Pam Bikes wrote:

> Looking for recommendations for a bike rack for a Prius for my 
> fendered Betty.  Lots of tray mount racks seem to not be made for 
> fenders.  
> And the hanging style would need a bar since my Betty is a step through.  
> This isn't for my car.  I don't like to drive.  Thanks in advance.

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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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[RBW] Re: New build: 1985 Bridgestone MB-2

[Jason Fuller]

Eric, finally took the time to watch the video and echo everyone's good 
words! Fun build - it's clear that you've got your 'foundation' bikes in 
place when building this so you're free to just have fun with it and focus 
on the vision. I re-watched the Hillborne video afterwards too, which is a 
great vid also, and it really underlined how while each of your builds have 
been thoughtfully curated (and very much in line with my interests!), the 
MB build is really all about functional art. Like all good art, it evokes 
an emotional response upon viewing, but with the added dimension that it 
can transport you to another time just by riding it. 

Also, I am very impressed/jealous of your shop. It makes me want to move 
out of the city so I can have the space for something like that!  

On Thursday, 26 January 2023 at 07:28:19 UTC-8 jak...@me.com wrote:

> Another great build and popcorn-worthy video.  Loved the disappearing act 
> at the end!  The extra small touches that go into your efforts are really 
> enjoyable.   Superbe!
>
> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 9:09:58 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks, David!
>>
>> JohnS — Ah, a Quickbeam build. That sounds great. I rode one around a 
>> suburban cul-de-sac a few years ago but it hadn't been maintained and the 
>> brakes didn't work so I didn't really get a very good feel for it. 
>>
>> I like this housing, I like the look, the colors it comes in, the 
>> simplicity. Crust, Sim Works and Circles all stock it. I'll probably use it 
>> again in the future. I'm not familiar with the Jagwire pro-slick but I used 
>> Jagwire gray housing on my Rivs, a Bridgestone MB-3 and the mixte I built 
>> up. I bought the Sim Works stuff primarily driven by the look, bright 
>> stainless, no writing or branding, and knew that if it was made by Nissen 
>> for Sim Works it likely was very good quality. Make sure you run them brake 
>> cables nice and long! I ran mine too short the first time and ended up 
>> using all the housing and just barely had enough to finish. 
>>
>> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:49:01 AM UTC-5 JohnS wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Eric,
>>>
>>> How do you like the  Sim Works x Nissen brake housing? I'm thinking of 
>>> using the clear on my Quickbeam (also trying to minimize black on the 
>>> build), would be the same Superbe brake levers (from my '83 expedition) and 
>>> Paul brakes, except the front will be the mini-mottos. Usually I use 
>>> Jagwire pro-slick cables and housings, kind of spoiled by them.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> JohnS
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 4:17:47 PM UTC-5 David Pulsipher wrote:
>>>
 beautiful work Eric - thank you for sharing with us!

 On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 4:06:27 PM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> [image: MB-2 230115 S 00 Complete.jpg]
>
> Hi all — I just finished up a build, it's a 1985 Bridgestone MB-2. I 
> have a full build video up over here: https://youtu.be/gJPnbpzjbKg
>
> [image: MB-2 230115 S 01 Complete.jpg]
>
> I purchased the bike as a complete from Marketplace, it was stock but 
> for the saddle and tires. Everything was removed and I passed the frame 
> over to Rob Gassie at Bing Bicycles. He added some rack mounts to the 
> fork 
> and seat stays, changes some the cable guides, added a third bottle boss 
> to 
> the downtube and two additional bottle bosses to the underside. He also 
> stripped the frame to raw steel. 
>
> [image: MB-2 230115 S 02 Headbadge.jpg]
>
> Instead of paint I went for a raw finish. There are two applications 
> of patination acids, with and without heat, followed by clear lacquer and 
> wax. 
>
> [image: MB-2 230115 S Rear mech.jpg]
>
> It's built up with a mix of parts from across time, all silver. 
> De-anodized some black Paul cantilevers and also de-anodized an XTR 
> RD-M952. Dead stock WTB grease guard headset purchased from Jacque 
> Phelan. 
> Lots of Suntour, some TA cranks and modern parts from Japan. Crust x 
> Nitto 
> Shaka bars, MKS bear trap pedals, Nitto cable hanger. 
>
> [image: MB-2 230115 S Downtube.jpg]
>
> I had some custom brass headbadges made with the old Bridgestone logo 
> which I shaped and finished. 
>
> [image: MB2 09 SM Head tube.jpg]
>
> Velocity Atlas 26" wheelset with a Kasai dynamo hub up front and an 
> XTR M900 in the rear. Front wheel by Rich at Rivendell, rear built by 
> Andre 
> at my local bike shop. I'm running Rene Herse extra-light tires with a 
> Rat 
> Trap Pass in the back and a Humptulips Ridge in front. 
>
> Many thanks to members here for helping out with parts when I needed 
> them: Trevor B., Dave H., Liz S. and Patrick M. 
>
> • Velocity Atlas 26" 32/32 wheelset
> • Rene Herse Antelope Hill, extra light
> • Rene Herse Rat Trap Pass, extra light
> • Shimano XTR M900 

[RBW] Re: Help me "Riv" my bike fit, Please!

[Jason Fuller]

The unique thing about typical Riv builds is they're surprisingly flexible 
on stack and reach - of course, stack is easily adjusted by the long quill 
stems to suit your fancy, but also the reach becomes much less sensitive if 
you run a swept bar like an Albatross because there's enough fore-aft room 
that your hands just naturally find a comfortable position along the bar. 

For a Sam, my suggestion is to run the Albatross bar and an 11cm Tallux 
stem and see how it feels. This bar / stem puts the hands in a pretty 
natural position for the Sam's ETT and steers nice.  Quite likely, your 
natural hand position will land in the good zone with this setup


On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 06:42:15 UTC-8 Davey Two Shoes wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> I'm building up a Sam Hillborne and this is my first Riv build. I'm not 
> sure where to start with stack and reach. Coming from your typical roadie 
> fit I'm not sure how much shorter to make my reach and taller to make my 
> stack in order to get that coveted Rivendell riding position. I'm trying to 
> get this right with as few stem purchases and bar wrap jobs as possible! 
> Are there any general rules of thumb here? This build will be a drop bar 
> build.
>
> My handlebar (not frame) XY position is as follows:
> Stack 626mm
> Reach 498mm
> Appreciate any help you can give me!
>
> For reference, my Fred Sled: (excuse the flat tires)[image: 
> purple.jpg]
>
>

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Re: [RBW] My First Riv: Clem Smith Jr. L, it's all the way live

[Jason Fuller]

There is little more satisfying than seeing how a much-loved bike has 
changed over a couple years, with signs of use increasing. Really 
appreciate the update - it looked great at the start, and even better now. 

While I don't have any regrets with the bikes I've built over the past few 
years, I can't help but wish I had picked up a 52cm Clem L back when I got 
my 45 H (which proved to be a bit too small, and a bit stiffer than I 
wanted) as I can see how immensely useful it would be for me. Alas, I can't 
fit more bikes and don't want to sell the ones I have! 

On Thursday, 19 January 2023 at 09:15:57 UTC-8 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I came across your Clem a while back when I started thinking about getting 
> one, both it and Dominic's build on the riv blog made me decide to rid my 
> romanceur and get a Clem. I eventually found an orange 59 clementine and 
> haven't looked back. It's a lifetime bike and every time I ride it it is a 
> joy! 
>
> Thanks for sharing the updates! Looks good as ever. 
>
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 3:18:59 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> So fun to read your almost 2-year-recap of your relationship with this 
>> Clem. I know how you feel; Clems are great bikes and so comfortable. I was 
>> so glad when Riv decided Clems would be exclusively step-thrus - it nudged 
>> a lot of folks towards trying a step-thru for the first time, and I think 
>> most Clem owners fell in love with that feature. Your Clem screams READY. 
>> Have a the adventures on it, in perfect comfort and total class. And 
>> don’t forget to post about them here.
>>
>> Happy riding!
>> Leah 
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 2:47:55 PM UTC-5 mma...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Welp, it's been a little under two years and I'm still very much in love 
>>> with this bike. Dare I say favorite bike ever?  By far my favorite Riv 
>>> ever; I had an orange Ram and a Toyo Homer since buying the Clem to chase 
>>> the high but both didn't stick around too long.
>>> I've enjoyed countless miles of big smile casual riding, errand running, 
>>> and short loaded tours. In summation this bike shines because of how 
>>> versatile it is. I've ridden other bikes with "do it all" intentions (cross 
>>> bike w/ racks) but the handling had much to be desired; far too responsive 
>>> on the front end and too uncomfortable/sketchy when loaded on the rear end. 
>>> Clem L fulfills the ability to be loaded and ride well. I really don't have 
>>> any interest in drop bar touring bikes at any capacity while I have Clem L.
>>> Anywho, I just wanted to check in and share some iterations of the 
>>> build, currently with a 1x12 transmission! I had a low-normal XT for a 
>>> short time which was totally acceptable and novel. I think the best upgrade 
>>> or change was the Sim Works Fun Bar 3 (RIP Terry Hall), I can't imagine 
>>> going back to a bosco-type cockpit. If you're thinking about Clem L I 
>>> highly suggest you CLEM IT UP. -Matt
>>>
>>> [image: 52632307568_d17dede0d7_c.jpg]
>>> [image: 51274416243_3a37f1c90e_c.jpg][image: 
>>> 51273225695_70bd27b36c_c.jpg][image: 52492573337_a65168034f_c 
>>> (1).jpg][image: 
>>> 52303354108_fca2254841_c.jpg][image: 52283682710_42d1a82bf8_c.jpg][image: 
>>> 51963057161_323262246a_c.jpg]
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: I’m considering selling my Susie…

[Jason Fuller]

Beautiful build!  $4000 is not out of the question if you find the right 
buyer.  My first thought was $3500-3600 as what I'd want to pay - but 
doesn't hurt to start higher especially if you're not motivated to sell.  

I think you should keep it and ride the beans out of it :)  



On Monday, 2 January 2023 at 13:31:12 UTC-8 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: 86F6DBF4-49D7-4809-A4EE-72D2CE64CC52.jpeg]
>
> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 1:30:28 PM UTC-8 Ryan Frahm wrote:
>
>> I want to say first off that I really love this bike! I ended up picking 
>> up a Clem H to use as my commuter so that the Susie wouldn’t get as beat 
>> up. Turns out, I like the Clem almost as much in reality. I was hoping to 
>> get an idea of what might be a fair price so I wanted to list the build and 
>> see. I’m not 100% sure I want to sell but I’m leaning that way. 
>>
>> Last run of the Susie, I got the frame in April size Large, Dark Gold 29” 
>> wheels.
>>
>> Sugar Wheelworks build SimWorks Standalone (Cliffhanger) wheels with 
>> CX-Ray spokes, White Industries MI5 rear hub and Son 28 up front. These 
>> wheels have less than 50 miles on them. 
>>
>> The pictures show Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge tires but I’d plan to put the 
>> Ehline 2.5” back on. They have not quite 500 miles on them. Tubeless with 
>> Orange Seal. 
>>
>> Rivendell 2 piece crankset 32/22 some scratches near the spindle drive 
>> side but otherwise like new. New Race Face BB. 
>>
>> Nitto S65 seatpost. 
>>
>> MKS Bear Trap pedals. Scratched cages but still good shape. 
>>
>> Tosco 65cm with 135mm FacePlater stem. 
>>
>> Paul Components Love Lever 2.5 with Shimano DXR brakes. 
>>
>> Jim 7 speed cassette 13-42 with Sram GX 10 speed derailleur and Silver 
>> shifter. KMC 10 speed EBike chain rated for 4500 miles. Works great with 
>> lots of low range. Manual shift up front but the 22t is really just a bail 
>> out if it gets really steep. 
>>
>> I plan to keep the rear rack, Edeluxe light and saddle. I also have new 
>> grips I just haven’t put on. Small chip inside the chainstay close to the 
>> front of the tire. Like I said, just trying to get an idea on price. I 
>> would hope to get somewhere close to $4000+ shipping. Is that close or 
>> crazy! Haha. Picture to follow. PM if there is any interest but I’m 
>> definitely still thinking. Thanks everyone!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Getting my groove back on with the Platypus - dealing with near misses

[Jason Fuller]

Sorry to hear that Jay.  I've been finding that drivers are getting worse 
and worse every year - less patient, more distracted, more aggressive. 
Plus, cars keep getting bigger and bigger as is safety of people outside 
the vehicle isn't even a consideration (what the heck, FMVSS??).  I have 
slid further and further into the belief that massive change to how North 
Americans get around daily needs to happen, but I am not optimistic it'll 
happen. It shouldn't be an extreme point of view to want a comprehensive 
network of non-motorized pathways in every community. 

Anyway, the way I've been dealing with this is: 
- Avoid streets that are busy or that I've had bad experiences with, even 
if it means a longer route
- Take the sidewalk (and be slow and courteous around pedestrians) if I 
need to, to feel safe
- If on the street, I make sure to ride 3-4 feet from the curb so that I am 
more visible and cars are less able to "squeeze" past me .. this one is a 
challenge as I am a conflict avoider, but it is safer to be annoying to a 
driver than to be unnoticed 
- Use a mirror to be able to see cars behind me, and be always on alert and 
like you say, never assuming a driver sees me unless I make eye contact and 
they give me a cue 

It's tragic that we have to accept these risks to get around by bicycle, 
considering in doing so we're protecting those around us by not driving. 
Not to mention children and all those who can't drive for one reason or 
another. 

On Wednesday, 28 December 2022 at 11:58:14 UTC-8 Jay LePree wrote:

> Hi all:
> I live in car-centric, crowded, northeastern NJ.  I joined a gym two towns 
> over and ride my bike to the gym, about 3.5 miles each way.  I take the 
> least busiest streets possible, but unfortunately, I need to ride through a 
> semi-busy, though traffic-lit intersection.
>
> In my last 12 trips to the gym, I have had two near misses which could 
> have been hits if I did not ride like Kent Peterson had described.  "Treat 
> cars like big animals with poor eyesight that can't see you.  In one case, 
> at night, although I have a Schmidt Edelux II, a huge reflective ankle 
> bracelet on my basket, wear a reflective vest and have reflective ankle 
> bands, I had a car nearly make a left turn into me while I was crossing the 
> intersection.  The car was going straight through, and without signalling, 
> decided to turn left at the last minute.  I stopped in time to prevent "the 
> left cross".  Not less than 5 days later, in clear, bright daylight, I had 
> a car pass me on the right and then proceed to turn right in front of me.  
> (I think this is called the right hook?).  Again, applying Kent's approach 
> to riding, I was able to stop in time.
>
> I am thankful my skills were sufficent to prevent contact, but now I am 
> skittish.  Given the legalized weed and the propensity for peope to drink 
> around this time of year, I am finding excuses not to ride to the gym, even 
> in daylight.  I think it is the back-to-back nature of these incidents that 
> has me most unnerved.  
>
> How have all of you got your groove back on?  
>
> Kind regards,
> Jay LePree
> Demarest, NJ
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[Jason Fuller]

; the Fellowship of the Ring is formed
>>>>>>>> Baggins: the surname of our Hobbit heroes, Bilbo and Frodo
>>>>>>>> Sackville: a an affluent branch of the Baggins family in the Shire, 
>>>>>>>> the Sackville-Bagginses
>>>>>>>> Bombadil: as in Tom Bombadil, a jovial character who helps the 
>>>>>>>> Hobbits out of a tight spot along their journey. He may be the oldest 
>>>>>>>> being 
>>>>>>>> in Middle Earth. Infamously NOT mentioned in the film adaptations, to 
>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>> dismay of many fans.
>>>>>>>> Legolas: a Woodland Elf who was a member of the Fellowship of the 
>>>>>>>> Ring
>>>>>>>> Quickbeam: a young Ent who basically babysat and distracted Hobbits 
>>>>>>>> Merry and Pippin during the Ent Moot
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can anyone think of any obvious ones I'm missing here?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 10:50:45 AM UTC-5 E. Ricky Creek 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Hunqapillar is named after a mailbox in Indiana, but the 
>>>>>>>>> spelling is different. Also, it might not be Indiana.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 9:31:34 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for starting this thread, Eric. Stoked to learn more 
>>>>>>>>>> about these two models. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 7:16:08 AM UTC-8 
>>>>>>>>>> eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. 
>>>>>>>>>>> They're stout, beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional 
>>>>>>>>>>> tubes and 
>>>>>>>>>>> lugs. While I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit 
>>>>>>>>>>> unclear 
>>>>>>>>>>> on the origins and intended uses of these frames. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info 
>>>>>>>>>>> about these bikes along with pictures of builds. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in 
>>>>>>>>>>> another 
>>>>>>>>>>> thread 
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/mkxv02ciCM4/m/KqWZOIMQAwAJ>,
>>>>>>>>>>>  there's 
>>>>>>>>>>> some great info there. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here: 
>>>>>>>>>>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, 
>>>>>>>>>>> sometime in 2009. Excerpted pages attached. As a few members might 
>>>>>>>>>>> recall I 
>>>>>>>>>>> am very into raw frames with brass spilling out of the lugs! I know 
>>>>>>>>>>> that 
>>>>>>>>>>> many Bombadil owners have had their frames repainted like Jason 
>>>>>>>>>>> Fuller, 
>>>>>>>>>>> whose absolute stunner shows up here from time to time. By the way, 
>>>>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>>>>> picture below is one of my very favorite Rivendell images. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Jason Bombadil green.jpg]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's also the butter-banana Bombadil that recently sold on 
>>>>>>>>>>> eBay. I believe that one was purchased by John Watson of the 
>>>>>>>>>>> Radavist (and 
>>>>>>>>>>> he's got a Hunq) so we might see some nice pics of that bike 
>>>>>>>>>>> sometime soon. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [image: s-l1600-2.jpg]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And speaking of, here's John's Hunqapillar, more images and 
>>>>>>>>>>> write-up here 
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://theradavist.com/rivendell-hunqapillar-review/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Johns-Rivendell-Hunqapillar-29er-Klunker-76.jpg] 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are both of these frame names borrowing from Tolkien? I 
>>>>>>>>>>> understand RBW had to stop using Tolkien names. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6861950f-d33f-4acc-9c43-64c7def7bec3n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>  
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6861950f-d33f-4acc-9c43-64c7def7bec3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>

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Re: [RBW] Is there a 31.8 clamp drop bar comparable to a Nitto Noodle 54cm?

[Jason Fuller]

Scott,

Oh, I missed that you have ALL the faceplaters!  Nice!  I thought you had
one stem you were looking to use, and the randonneur bars tend to need a
shorter stem than other drop bars.  The RH bar is 115mm reach, vs the
M137's 78mm reach - 37mm difference! What is nice about the long reach of
the randonneur bars is that you have tons of real estate fore-aft to rest
your hands, hence their value as a long distance bar, but good plan to
start with the shortest stem.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 4:12 PM 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Jason,
>
> Thanks for the Nitto M137 recommendation. I'll check it out. I've already
> ordered the Nitto made RH Randonneur. In the product description it wasn't
> noted as a long reach bar. Maybe you could check their site and let me know
> what you think of the bar description, please? It sounds like a good bar to
> have in the quiver.
>
> And exactly what do you mean it likely won't work with my stem, too much
> reach? I have Nitto FacePlaters in 60, 85, 110, and 135 and was thinking
> about starting with 60 as a starting point.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Scott
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 02:05:26 PM MST, Jason Fuller <
> jtf.ful...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Late to the party, but I wholeheartedly suggest the Nitto M137 'dirt drop'
> bar.  I have the 54cm, which measures 54 at the ends but about 49-50cm at
> the hoods. Not super long reach like a randonneur bar (which won't fit
> right if you try to re-use your stem, most likely), but still has pretty
> classic looks with just a bit of modern flare (literally, and
> figuratively).  Got mine from Blue Lug.
>
> On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 11:22:11 UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I have to retract my overly confident assertion: "best" for bars and
> saddles can only mean "best for me." But here is what I like about the Maes
> Parallel, after using scores of other road and "dirt" drop  bars.
>
> The long flat ramps. I like my bars set up with ramps and ends of hooks
> parallel to the ground, and the MP seems perfectly designed for this,
> allowing you to mount your levers high enough without eliminating the flat
> ramp ahead of the hoods.
>
> Positions: Instead of 4 positions: hooks, hoods, ramps behind hoods,
> flats, I get 5: hooks, hoods, ramps behind hoods, ramps a bit further back,
> flats.
>
> The flat hooks. My left palm hurts when I rest it for more than 10 minutes
> on a slanted hook. The other day I was in the hooks of the MP bar for a
> good 5 miles non-stop, total 7 miles with a bit of a break; again, very
> sensitive left palm. True, I did shift the left palm around every half mile
> or mile, but I was in the drop position as described. Can't do that with
> drop bar slanted downward.
>
> The moderate drop. I like an aero hoods position, but enough difference
> when moving from hoods to hooks so that there is material advantage against
> a headwind; but I dislike deep drops which at almost 68 I find too low --
> reason I swapped out the 140 mm drop Nitto 165 and Giro d'Italia bars for
> the MPs (both have 90 mm ramps and 140 mm drop, IIRC). The MPs are
> wonderful for this: again, long reach, modest drop.
>
> Finally, the quality: the best of Nitto standards among all the levels of
> high Nitto quality standards.
>
> Oh, and even more finally: they have a prettier polish than say the Noodle
> or 165 or GdI.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 3:25 PM 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Patrick:
>
> Please, clarify what you mean by "best road drop bar on the market at
> least for non-brifter brake levers."
>
> I have a set of Ultegra brifters I'm wanting to install on my newly
> purchased HR Randonneur bars, as you know are similar to the Maes Parrallel.
>
> Scott
>
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 12:10:08 AM MST, Patrick Moore <
> bert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I use the Maes Parallel on 3 bikes and IMO it's the best road drop bar on
> the market at least for non-brifter brake levers: longish reach, long flat
> ramps, modest drop, flat hooks. It does come in 31.8.
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 9:34 AM 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> Are you in same position I am, looking for a 31.8 drop?
>
> Did you see the RH Maes Parallel on the their site?
>
> Thoughts?!
>
> Has anyone else tried the RH Randonneur or Maes Parallel? Takes, please?
>
> Best,
>
> Scott
>
> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 05:37:57 AM MST, Steven Sweedler <
> swee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Scott, yesterday on the Bob l

Re: [RBW] Is there a 31.8 clamp drop bar comparable to a Nitto Noodle 54cm?

[Jason Fuller]

Late to the party, but I wholeheartedly suggest the Nitto M137 'dirt drop' 
bar.  I have the 54cm, which measures 54 at the ends but about 49-50cm at 
the hoods. Not super long reach like a randonneur bar (which won't fit 
right if you try to re-use your stem, most likely), but still has pretty 
classic looks with just a bit of modern flare (literally, and 
figuratively).  Got mine from Blue Lug. 

On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 11:22:11 UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I have to retract my overly confident assertion: "best" for bars and 
> saddles can only mean "best for me." But here is what I like about the Maes 
> Parallel, after using scores of other road and "dirt" drop  bars.
>
> The long flat ramps. I like my bars set up with ramps and ends of hooks 
> parallel to the ground, and the MP seems perfectly designed for this, 
> allowing you to mount your levers high enough without eliminating the flat 
> ramp ahead of the hoods. 
>
> Positions: Instead of 4 positions: hooks, hoods, ramps behind hoods, 
> flats, I get 5: hooks, hoods, ramps behind hoods, ramps a bit further back, 
> flats.
>
> The flat hooks. My left palm hurts when I rest it for more than 10 minutes 
> on a slanted hook. The other day I was in the hooks of the MP bar for a 
> good 5 miles non-stop, total 7 miles with a bit of a break; again, very 
> sensitive left palm. True, I did shift the left palm around every half mile 
> or mile, but I was in the drop position as described. Can't do that with 
> drop bar slanted downward.
>
> The moderate drop. I like an aero hoods position, but enough difference 
> when moving from hoods to hooks so that there is material advantage against 
> a headwind; but I dislike deep drops which at almost 68 I find too low -- 
> reason I swapped out the 140 mm drop Nitto 165 and Giro d'Italia bars for 
> the MPs (both have 90 mm ramps and 140 mm drop, IIRC). The MPs are 
> wonderful for this: again, long reach, modest drop.
>
> Finally, the quality: the best of Nitto standards among all the levels of 
> high Nitto quality standards.
>
> Oh, and even more finally: they have a prettier polish than say the Noodle 
> or 165 or GdI.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 3:25 PM 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick:
>>
>> Please, clarify what you mean by "best road drop bar on the market at 
>> least for non-brifter brake levers."
>>
>> I have a set of Ultegra brifters I'm wanting to install on my newly 
>> purchased HR Randonneur bars, as you know are similar to the Maes Parrallel.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 12:10:08 AM MST, Patrick Moore <
>> bert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> I use the Maes Parallel on 3 bikes and IMO it's the best road drop bar on 
>> the market at least for non-brifter brake levers: longish reach, long flat 
>> ramps, modest drop, flat hooks. It does come in 31.8.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 9:34 AM 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Are you in same position I am, looking for a 31.8 drop?
>>
>> Did you see the RH Maes Parallel on the their site?
>>
>> Thoughts?!
>>
>> Has anyone else tried the RH Randonneur or Maes Parallel? Takes, please?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 05:37:57 AM MST, Steven Sweedler <
>> swee...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> Scott, yesterday on the Bob list I asked about comparisons of the Noodle 
>> and the RH Randonneur bar that comes in 31.8. The two responders liked both 
>> bars and had used them for years. Steve
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 10:07 PM 'Scott' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey, all:
>>
>> I'm wanting to try a 54cm Nitto Noodle drop, but I want to keep my 31.8 
>> Faceplater to facilitate cockpit changes.
>>
>> Anyone know of a comparable bar or solution? Maybe I should just get a 
>> Noodle and stem for change outs...
>>
>> Also, am I on the right track going with a Noodle (54cm cuz I'm tall)? I 
>> plan on using it as a cockpit option for my Atlantis build.
>>
>> Happy Holidays,
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3dd78030-6c23-43a5-9553-154adc13fd3cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>> -- 
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[Jason Fuller]

Ahh, unfortunately the 700c models had 2.1" clearance like the Bombadil,
it's the 26" and 650B models had more generous clearance (I'm just going by
an old geometry chart, not real world experience)

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 4:37 PM James M  wrote:

> What are the differences between Hunqapillar generations?  I have a July
> 2010 Waterford 62cm.  Right now it's got 2.1" Schwalbe Thunder Burts.  I
> think getting 2.2" tires on the back would be dicey.  Did the green
> generation of the frame have bigger clearance?  Longer wheelbase?
>
> James
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:26:45 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> One more note that I didn't think of until I hit submit - the batch
>> differences that exist on Bombadils (and maybe Hunqapillars too) are more
>> significant than the difference between a Bombadil and a Hunq if you remove
>> the location of manufacture from the equation.
>>
>> On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 16:24:22 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Just catching this now, hey thanks for the shoutout Eric! And it means a
>>> lot that you said that about the forest photo! That was a special day,
>>> first ride on the rebuild after paint.
>>>
>>> I don't have nearly the historical knowledge that many here do, and a
>>> lot has already been said. But here are my summarized thoughts between the
>>> two anyway, beyond the obvious difference of location of manufacture. The
>>> Hunqapillar seems to me like a "v2" Bombadil - they increased tire
>>> clearance over the Bombadil from 2.1 to 2.4" on most sizes, they made
>>> little geometry tweaks but just a smidge here and there, and notably they
>>> made the frame more cost-effective by not only changing suppliers but by
>>> simplifying the design a bit.
>>>
>>> To me they are still both "ATB" Rivendells, made to tackle trails loaded
>>> or not, and also be comfortable to ride on pavement as long as you're not
>>> in too much of a rush. When it comes to which is more coveted, it really
>>> comes down to whether the little superfluous (but beautiful) details on the
>>> Bombadil are important to you, and/or which paint job and geometry
>>> specifics suit you better. I think of them like the Appaloosa and Atlantis
>>> - basically two flavors of the same bike.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 11 December 2022 at 07:16:08 UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. They're
>>>> stout, beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional tubes and lugs.
>>>> While I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit unclear on the
>>>> origins and intended uses of these frames.
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info about
>>>> these bikes along with pictures of builds.
>>>>
>>>> Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in another
>>>> thread
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/mkxv02ciCM4/m/KqWZOIMQAwAJ>,
>>>>  there's
>>>> some great info there.
>>>>
>>>> The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here:
>>>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>>>>
>>>> The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, sometime in
>>>> 2009. Excerpted pages attached. As a few members might recall I am very
>>>> into raw frames with brass spilling out of the lugs! I know that many
>>>> Bombadil owners have had their frames repainted like Jason Fuller, whose
>>>> absolute stunner shows up here from time to time. By the way, the picture
>>>> below is one of my very favorite Rivendell images.
>>>>
>>>> [image: Jason Bombadil green.jpg]
>>>>
>>>> There's also the butter-banana Bombadil that recently sold on eBay. I
>>>> believe that one was purchased by John Watson of the Radavist (and he's got
>>>> a Hunq) so we might see some nice pics of that bike sometime soon.
>>>>
>>>> [image: s-l1600-2.jpg]
>>>>
>>>> And speaking of, here's John's Hunqapillar, more images and write-up
>>>> here <https://theradavist.com/rivendell-hunqapillar-review/>.
>>>>
>>>> [image: Johns-Rivendell-Hunqapillar-29er-Klunker-76.jpg]
>>>>
>>>> Are both of these frame names borrowing from Tolkien? I understand RBW
>>>> had to stop using T

[RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[Jason Fuller]

One more note that I didn't think of until I hit submit - the batch 
differences that exist on Bombadils (and maybe Hunqapillars too) are more 
significant than the difference between a Bombadil and a Hunq if you remove 
the location of manufacture from the equation. 

On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 16:24:22 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Just catching this now, hey thanks for the shoutout Eric! And it means a 
> lot that you said that about the forest photo! That was a special day, 
> first ride on the rebuild after paint.
>
> I don't have nearly the historical knowledge that many here do, and a lot 
> has already been said. But here are my summarized thoughts between the two 
> anyway, beyond the obvious difference of location of manufacture. The 
> Hunqapillar seems to me like a "v2" Bombadil - they increased tire 
> clearance over the Bombadil from 2.1 to 2.4" on most sizes, they made 
> little geometry tweaks but just a smidge here and there, and notably they 
> made the frame more cost-effective by not only changing suppliers but by 
> simplifying the design a bit. 
>
> To me they are still both "ATB" Rivendells, made to tackle trails loaded 
> or not, and also be comfortable to ride on pavement as long as you're not 
> in too much of a rush. When it comes to which is more coveted, it really 
> comes down to whether the little superfluous (but beautiful) details on the 
> Bombadil are important to you, and/or which paint job and geometry 
> specifics suit you better. I think of them like the Appaloosa and Atlantis 
> - basically two flavors of the same bike.   
>
>  
>
> On Sunday, 11 December 2022 at 07:16:08 UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. They're stout, 
>> beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional tubes and lugs. While 
>> I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit unclear on the 
>> origins and intended uses of these frames. 
>>
>> I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info about these 
>> bikes along with pictures of builds. 
>>
>> Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in another 
>> thread 
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/mkxv02ciCM4/m/KqWZOIMQAwAJ>, 
>> there's 
>> some great info there. 
>>
>> The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here: 
>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>>
>> The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, sometime in 
>> 2009. Excerpted pages attached. As a few members might recall I am very 
>> into raw frames with brass spilling out of the lugs! I know that many 
>> Bombadil owners have had their frames repainted like Jason Fuller, whose 
>> absolute stunner shows up here from time to time. By the way, the picture 
>> below is one of my very favorite Rivendell images. 
>>
>> [image: Jason Bombadil green.jpg]
>>
>> There's also the butter-banana Bombadil that recently sold on eBay. I 
>> believe that one was purchased by John Watson of the Radavist (and he's got 
>> a Hunq) so we might see some nice pics of that bike sometime soon. 
>>
>> [image: s-l1600-2.jpg]
>>
>> And speaking of, here's John's Hunqapillar, more images and write-up here 
>> <https://theradavist.com/rivendell-hunqapillar-review/>.
>>
>> [image: Johns-Rivendell-Hunqapillar-29er-Klunker-76.jpg] 
>>
>> Are both of these frame names borrowing from Tolkien? I understand RBW 
>> had to stop using Tolkien names. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[Jason Fuller]

Just catching this now, hey thanks for the shoutout Eric! And it means a 
lot that you said that about the forest photo! That was a special day, 
first ride on the rebuild after paint.

I don't have nearly the historical knowledge that many here do, and a lot 
has already been said. But here are my summarized thoughts between the two 
anyway, beyond the obvious difference of location of manufacture. The 
Hunqapillar seems to me like a "v2" Bombadil - they increased tire 
clearance over the Bombadil from 2.1 to 2.4" on most sizes, they made 
little geometry tweaks but just a smidge here and there, and notably they 
made the frame more cost-effective by not only changing suppliers but by 
simplifying the design a bit. 

To me they are still both "ATB" Rivendells, made to tackle trails loaded or 
not, and also be comfortable to ride on pavement as long as you're not in 
too much of a rush. When it comes to which is more coveted, it really comes 
down to whether the little superfluous (but beautiful) details on the 
Bombadil are important to you, and/or which paint job and geometry 
specifics suit you better. I think of them like the Appaloosa and Atlantis 
- basically two flavors of the same bike.   

 

On Sunday, 11 December 2022 at 07:16:08 UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. They're stout, 
> beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional tubes and lugs. While 
> I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit unclear on the 
> origins and intended uses of these frames. 
>
> I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info about these 
> bikes along with pictures of builds. 
>
> Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in another 
> thread 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/mkxv02ciCM4/m/KqWZOIMQAwAJ>, 
> there's 
> some great info there. 
>
> The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here: 
> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>
> The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, sometime in 
> 2009. Excerpted pages attached. As a few members might recall I am very 
> into raw frames with brass spilling out of the lugs! I know that many 
> Bombadil owners have had their frames repainted like Jason Fuller, whose 
> absolute stunner shows up here from time to time. By the way, the picture 
> below is one of my very favorite Rivendell images. 
>
> [image: Jason Bombadil green.jpg]
>
> There's also the butter-banana Bombadil that recently sold on eBay. I 
> believe that one was purchased by John Watson of the Radavist (and he's got 
> a Hunq) so we might see some nice pics of that bike sometime soon. 
>
> [image: s-l1600-2.jpg]
>
> And speaking of, here's John's Hunqapillar, more images and write-up here 
> <https://theradavist.com/rivendell-hunqapillar-review/>.
>
> [image: Johns-Rivendell-Hunqapillar-29er-Klunker-76.jpg] 
>
> Are both of these frame names borrowing from Tolkien? I understand RBW had 
> to stop using Tolkien names. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Slin, that's a fun idea to do it as a family tree kind of infographic!  I
haven't gotten around to polishing this into a digital form like I meant
to, but with the holiday break coming up I might take the opportunity to
then, and am really liking this idea of doing it as a branched structure
based on successors

On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 7:14 PM Slin  wrote:

> @Jason - this is really cool! I did a search and came across this because
> I was thinking about doing something very similar but also including when
> the models were discontinued and any lineage type relationships:
>
> Atlantis <-> Appaloosa
>
> Glorius/Wilbury -> Betty Foy/Yves Gomez -> Cheviot -> Platypus
>
>
> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:13:18 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Marty - those photoshops are amazing.
>>
>> Tom - it's having the same effect on me; it's a problem. I am now in
>> search of a Rosco step thru in the 54/55 size.
>>
>> On Friday, 3 December 2021 at 13:17:21 UTC-8 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>
>>> This thread is the best reading I've done this week, although it makes
>>> me want *all-the-Rivs*!
>>>
>>> Tom (in Miami, where it's peak riding season)
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 9:37:13 PM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll have to check out that thread.
>>>>
>>>> As a gray/orange Hunqapillar owner, I much prefer the darker shade of
>>>> orange shown in your photo here.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 6:25:39 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke,
>>>> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> To satisify my own itch, I did a series of photoshop mockups of the
>>>>> first diagatube Hunqapillars beginning Monday, April 5th at 7:59am. Two
>>>>> versions - one that is like the production version we ended up with, and
>>>>> another that had extended "mixte" like tubes that ended near the rear
>>>>> dropouts. (That one sort of became the Bombadil ultimately.) These first
>>>>> mockups led to more than 20 others, prompted by an email from Grant who 
>>>>> saw
>>>>> the posts here and wanted to explore different color combos and other
>>>>> details. It all happened pretty fast. Here are mockups #1 and #2, and a
>>>>> couple others along the way. If you look closely at the front tire
>>>>> markings, you can see how I kept track of the various mockups. For the
>>>>> record, here is the thread where these were revealed and all of this is
>>>>> discussed (passionately!):
>>>>>
>>>>> DiagaHunq Discussion
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/rM7r1_ocwKg/m/y7EusTk4z0MJ>
>>>>>
>>>>> It was fun to be a small part of the history of this great bike. I
>>>>> owned one for a short time, but it was way too small for me, and had some
>>>>> damage. Looking back, those chainstays look ridiculously short! My current
>>>>> Clem H is all the Hunq I need now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marty
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: DiagHunq1.jpg][image: DiagHunq2.jpg]
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI - to facilitate the mockups I was using a pic that was posted on
>>>>> the Riv site somewhere - it was Jay's bike:
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: Jay_s_H.jpg]
>>>>>
>>>>> This one in orange and grey, with a cork lift handle idea. Not sure
>>>>> who's bike this was.
>>>>> [image: Hunqamarty 10.0.jpg]
>>>>>
>>>>> OK - this one was a stretch...
>>>>> [image: Hunqamarty 8.0.jpg]
>>>>>
>>>>> And a black & grey version I kind of liked. with graphics on the
>>>>> mid-tube.
>>>>> [image: Hunqamarty 21.0.jpg]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:15:22 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael - they switched from the dual TT style to the diaga-tube in
>>>>>> 2010 on Bombadils :)  So the diaga is the newer versio
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

[Jason Fuller]

I've approached this thought experiment from every angle before. Given that 
I participate in a wide range of types of cycling (brevets, errands, 
commutes, multi-surface exploration, bikepacking / touring, and technical 
mountain biking) it really comes down to what is the number of bikes I own 
total vs. what Rivendell(s). 

I've consistently come to the same conclusion on an optimal balance - three 
bikes; a Brompton, the Hillborne, and a hardtail mountain bike.  So that 
means the Hillborne is my pick for one Rivendell: it's quick enough for 
brevets but also capable enough for loaded touring on FSRs. Even if I 
dropped the Brompton from that trio, the Hillborne could pick up the slack 
and do all the erranding I need with aplomb. 

If I had to go to one bike total, I'm not sure if it would be a Rivendell.  
But if it was, my Bombadil would be my pick with the Platypus in second 
place 

On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 15:56:52 UTC-8 Greg J wrote:

> I've only ridden 3 Rivendells, all of them pre-2003 models, so I don't 
> know what I'm missing on the newer models with the relaxed geo and long 
> chain stays.  But I have yet to find any faults* with the Waterford A/R 
> that I have, so I guess that would be the one for me!  26" wheels, triple 
> crank, bar end shifters, and (currently) drop bars.
>
> *Sometimes I wish it were lighter, but that would mean that it would be 
> less versatile for touring, off-road, etc., so I'll take it as is.  
>
> Greg
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
>> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
>> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
>> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
>> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
>> and equip it?
>>
>> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
>> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
>> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
>> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
>> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
>> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
>> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
>> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
>> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
>> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
>> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
>> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>>
>> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
>> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
>> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
>> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
>> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
>> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
>> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
>> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
>> dirt ratios.
>>
>> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
>> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
>> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
>> vice.
>>
>> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
>> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
>> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Jason Fuller]

I do like that sentiment. In the spirit of avoiding being too precious to
use the bike as much as it should be, I sold the Charlie Gallop because I
finally accepted that it was basically my other Riv(s) but I was just more
willing to lock it up (within reason). It wasn't a good enough reason for
the Hillborne or Bombadil to stay home.

It seems like the Hillborne is the more logical equivalent to the Charlie,
but given the way I had the Charlie set up (as more of a city hybrid kind
of bike) I'm tailoring the Bombadil for the job - it's received a pannier
rack and some stickers; the latter probably doesn't do anything other than
signal to my brain that this is a modest bike, regardless of its pedigree
or value. It has also received some bike rack scuffs.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 3:32 PM John Dewey  wrote:

> Indeed, those Seven Sisters just up the hill.
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:28:00 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> That is one gorgeous Rambouillet. Is the background that dam at the
>> bottom of Mt. Tam on the Mill Valley side on the way to the 7 sisters?
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 3:22 PM John Dewey  wrote:
>>
>>> RBW, here's one that we've been riding daily for all its 18 years...and
>>> it's precious as well. Gratefully, we can all have our pie and eat it too.
>>>
>>> BEST / Jock Dewey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:30:14 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 What a beautiful way to express it.

 On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:11:24 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding
 Ding! wrote:

> I was on Instagram this morning and saw a post that echoed the spirit
> of this thread. The user kindly translated it to English from his native
> Japanese, and it was so perfect that I can only imagine it was even better
> in the original language.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:18:05 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>
>> I'm like Roberta; I take care of my stuff and try hard to overcome
>> the desire to keep everything in like-new condition by "saving" items for
>> special times.  Sometimes I have to take a breath and have a little
>> self-talk when it comes to my Rivs.  "It's OK, it's just a bike.  It's
>> meant to get dirty.  It will be fine on the bike rack."  This was 
>> repeated
>> many times when taking my dear Platypus on the rack for the first time,
>> knowing I had a five-hour drive and Platy would be covered in road grime.
>> This is even worse when the weather is snotty.  However, I've figured out
>> to cover the saddle and just live with the rest. Cleaning rags are
>> essential gear and besides, it's more important to ride the bike, dirty 
>> or
>> not.
>>
>> Theft is always at the back of my mind, especially when I found out
>> how easy it is to cut a lock.  It has happened twice.  I went on a summer
>> camping trip and left the keys to my 1Up rack at home.  A handy camp-host
>> with a cordless grinder made quick work of it.  Another time, I used my
>> OttoLock at the grocery store rack.  The combination dial failed, so I 
>> went
>> next door to the hardware store to borrow a bolt cutter.  The kind clerk
>> brought one out and cut the lock with one snip!  Lessons learnedbut
>> still, I lock it up with my new lock and smile broadly when I come out of
>> the grocery store, see that beautiful design and relish the honesty of
>> humanity.
>>
>> Joyce
>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 5:34:12 AM UTC-8 Roberta wrote:
>>
>>> This got me thinking about most of my possessions. I take care of
>>> what I own and although careful, little is so precious that I won’t use
>>> something, even my Rivs. (There was a time I wouldn’t use something 
>>> because
>>> it was “too nice” for everyday so I’d use it once a year or two, missing
>>> the joy on the other days of the year.)  Still, I am careful. What I am
>>> more concerned with is theft and road salt.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 3:47:47 PM UTC-5
>>> penne...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Patrick, Dustin: don't worry too much about me. -20 and calmish
 around here is much preferable to the alternative of, say, 5 degrees 
 with
 80kmh winds. One way or the other, Patrick is correct: it's dry as can 
 be
 in these parts. My coldest-feeling commutes were living near Toronto, 
 where
 it's much wetter. I'm also not that hardcore - my buddy Andrew in 
 Calgary
 (hi Andrew, he's in the group) is twice as hardcore when it comes to 
 winter
 commutes, and in harsh winter places like Edmonton and Winnipeg there 
 are
 some real maniacs, I think.

 To your question, Patrick, I am large load capable with the Joe but
 the basket/rack combo is pretty light, and the bags usually aren't 
 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Jason Fuller]

The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most dainty 
kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from that bike 
just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays in the 
process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate in 
subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands are 
dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped 
selling them. 

On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I just 
> repeated what he said. Lame! 浪
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>
>>
>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
>>> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
>>> affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
>>> I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
>>> it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
>>> opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
>>> worth.)
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>>
>>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
 Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 

 Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
 single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
 both is this: 

 I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
 I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
 stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
 completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
 fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
 start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
 to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
 warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
 you load all day until the plate gives up. 

 Whaddyathink? 

 Joe Bernard 

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