Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[P W]

That looks like it would be an absolute blast to ride.Like a grown-up, swoopy, off-road BMX, or something. Have you taken it out on the trails yet? Looks like it would handle them well.P. W.~(917) 514-2207~On Sep 13, 2023, at 12:25 PM, Johnny Alien  wrote:Here is my close to final version of the ProtoGallop.  Knowing that the Roadini was going away for awhile I just could not pass up grabbing one in that fantastic Dark Gold color and now I am building that up to be my road focused bike. That resulted in me taking the Gallop in more of a gravel direction. Roadini for road, Gallop for trails and gravel, and lastly the Clem as the most fun to ride errand bike out there. I figured I would give the Ultradynamico tires another shot, this time in the lightest of their versions (Race) and the knobbier Rose. They really are just beautiful tires but they are not very supple even in the Race version and they are not fun to mount. I have high hopes for the ultimate ride quality though. I say "close to final" because I think in the end I am going to throw on a set of Rivendell's new V brakes when they are released. So here's the (now rare/out-dated/never to be released) swoopy top Proto Gallop v2On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:35:32 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:Abe, the clutch tension on the GRX derailleur is adjustable if you want to make the action at the lever a bit lighter. I've done this with a GRX with no evident compromise in performance. BTW - I'm running it with a 11-51 SLX 11 speed cassette with a 36 tooth 1x chainring.  Had to set the B screw almost to the max to clear the 51t cog, but have been pleasantly surprised to discover that it shifts just fine. On Wed, Jun 21, 2023 at 2:04 PM Pancake  wrote:Hi Jay, here's my take on the GRX RX-810 derailer - it solved all my shifting and hard pedaling problems though it's not rapid rise. On my Charlie I've used the Nexave RD-C600 Rapid rise and XT rapid rise derailers with this up to this point and they just skipped gears every time I pushed real hard with my 46/30 double and 11-40t cassette. This GRX RX810 is simply solid in comparison - I can't make it skip gears even if I try by pedaling hard as I can uphill while in too high a gear. I'm not sure if it's the clutch or a stronger spring (since it seems just as solid without the clutch switched on). I miss the rapid rise function, but solid shifting and pedaling were not possible for me with other derailers where 45t of chain wrap capacity is needed. The RX810 says it maxes out at 34t low on the cassette, but I'm running it on a 40t cassette with plenty of room to adjust the b-screw still. It also says it has max 40t wrap capacity but clearly can exceed that without issues. My Charlie has the following drivetrain setup:Rear derailer: RX810Front derailer: Shimano Claris double R2000 (IIRC on the model number - the one Will recommended in a Riv email at some point)Cassette: 11-40t 10 speed SunraceCrankset: IRD Compact 46/30t 172.5mm (like the IRD Defiant and VO double, but a variant from Boulder Bicycle that is cheaper)Shifters: Silver2 thumbies with the range limiting washer filed offWheels: SP PV-8 hub in front, VO casette silver hub in back; 32h, DT Swiss Competition double butted spokes, VO Voyager rims, Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass (44x700) endurance tires.The only down side I can think of is that I need to push a bit harder with my fingers when shifting - maybe I could back the d-ring screw out a little and solve this, but without a drop of blue loctite I figure a little extra tightness is fine. There is not much extra range on the shifter but it has enough so there's extra on both the high and low sides of the cassette. Abe



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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

Oh yeah! I replaced the crankset with a discontinued NOS TA set. Very light 
and fancy. :)

On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 3:24:50 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Here is my close to final version of the ProtoGallop.  Knowing that the 
> Roadini was going away for awhile I just could not pass up grabbing one in 
> that fantastic Dark Gold color and now I am building that up to be my road 
> focused bike. That resulted in me taking the Gallop in more of a gravel 
> direction. Roadini for road, Gallop for trails and gravel, and lastly the 
> Clem as the most fun to ride errand bike out there. I figured I would give 
> the Ultradynamico tires another shot, this time in the lightest of their 
> versions (Race) and the knobbier Rose. They really are just beautiful tires 
> but they are not very supple even in the Race version and they are not fun 
> to mount. I have high hopes for the ultimate ride quality though. I say 
> "close to final" because I think in the end I am going to throw on a set of 
> Rivendell's new V brakes when they are released. So here's the (now 
> rare/out-dated/never to be released) swoopy top Proto Gallop v2
>
> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:35:32 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Abe, the clutch tension on the GRX derailleur is adjustable if you want 
>> to make the action at the lever a bit lighter. I've done this with a GRX 
>> with no evident compromise in performance. 
>>
>> BTW - I'm running it with a 11-51 SLX 11 speed cassette with a 36 tooth 
>> 1x chainring.  Had to set the B screw almost to the max to clear the 51t 
>> cog, but have been pleasantly surprised to discover that it shifts just 
>> fine. 
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2023 at 2:04 PM Pancake  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jay, here's *my take on the GRX RX-810 derailer - it solved all my 
>>> shifting and hard pedaling problems though it's not rapid rise. *
>>>
>>> On my Charlie I've used the Nexave RD-C600 Rapid rise and XT rapid rise 
>>> derailers with this up to this point and they just skipped gears every time 
>>> I 
>>> pushed real hard with my 46/30 double and 11-40t cassette. *This GRX 
>>> RX810 is simply solid in comparison - I can't make it skip gears even if I 
>>> try by pedaling hard as I can uphill while in too high a gear**. *I'm 
>>> not sure if it's the clutch or a stronger spring (since it seems just as 
>>> solid without the clutch switched on). I miss the rapid rise function, 
>>> but solid shifting and pedaling were not possible for me with other 
>>> derailers where 45t of chain wrap capacity is needed. The RX810 says it 
>>> maxes out at 34t low on the cassette, but I'm running it on a 40t cassette 
>>> with plenty of room to adjust the b-screw still. It also says it has max 
>>> 40t wrap capacity but clearly can exceed that without issues. 
>>>
>>> My Charlie has the following drivetrain setup:
>>> Rear derailer: RX810
>>> Front derailer: Shimano Claris double R2000 (IIRC on the model number - 
>>> the one Will recommended in a Riv email at some point)
>>> Cassette: 11-40t 10 speed Sunrace
>>> Crankset: IRD Compact 46/30t 172.5mm (like the IRD Defiant and VO 
>>> double, but a variant from Boulder Bicycle that is cheaper)
>>> Shifters: Silver2 thumbies with the range limiting washer filed off
>>> Wheels: SP PV-8 hub in front, VO casette silver hub in back; 32h, DT 
>>> Swiss Competition double butted spokes, VO Voyager rims, Rene Herse 
>>> Snoqualmie Pass (44x700) endurance tires.
>>>
>>> The only down side I can think of is that I need to push a bit harder 
>>> with my fingers when shifting - maybe I could back the d-ring screw out a 
>>> little and solve this, but without a drop of blue loctite I figure a little 
>>> extra tightness is fine. 
>>> There is not much extra range on the shifter but it has enough so 
>>> there's extra on both the high and low sides of the cassette. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_6560.jpg]
>>>
>>> Abe
>>>
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>>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jay Lonner]

> My Cheviot and Charlie are setup with the same drive train almost: 46/30 
> double in front and 11-40 9 or 10 speed cassette in back with friction 
> shifting and clutch derailers (GRX rx810 on the Charlie, SRAM GX long on the 
> Cheviot). I should write a whole post about the wonderful discovery of the 
> GRX RX810, it's what every bike I've ever had was missing for a rock solid 
> drivetrain. 

I’d be interested in hearing more about your (or anybody else’s) experiences 
with this derailer.

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Piaw Na]

One consideration for credit-card touring is that with the long chainstays 
the bike will be harder to pack into a bike case for flying on an airline. 
That was the consideration that tipped me towards the Roadini over the A 
Homer Hilsen. 

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Steve]

Thanks Abe!  You've helped me put another check in my Charlie column.  I
ride a Ritchey Outback for the rough stuff, so it's definitely a roadish
bike I'm looking for.  Enjoyed the pics.

On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 12:50 AM Pancake  wrote:

> Photos of Cheviot, Charlie, Sam Hillborne, Rosco Baby Bike, Gus, a Homer
> .
>
> I've ridden a 60cm Cheviot (my first Riv) for over 5 years and the 57cm
> Charlie prototype for just over a year and around 1,750 miles of commuting,
> hills around Napa, and occasional dirt bits of single and double track.
> I'll be taking my Rosco Baby bike out to Nevada City for some mountain
> biking this weekend though that's normally has the tamer child carting work
> it's built for. My PBH is 84.5cm and I'm 6'0", around 230lbs.
>
> My Cheviot and Charlie are setup with the same drive train almost: 46/30
> double in front and 11-40 9 or 10 speed cassette in back with friction
> shifting and clutch derailers (GRX rx810 on the Charlie, SRAM GX long on
> the Cheviot). *I should write a whole post about the wonderful discovery
> of the GRX RX810, it's what every bike I've ever had was missing for a rock
> solid drivetrain. *
>
> I've ridden a Sam Hillborne for maybe 3 years too - but the Charlie is
> replacing it (watch for a double top tube 56cm Hillborne to be for sale
> soon). Though they're not the same (the Charlie is longer, swoopier, and
> flexier) the Cheviot is setup to for mostly commuting while the Sam was my
> bike for longer, sometimes faster rides. I mostly had it with drop bars but
> received it with Boscos and ultimately switched to Mustache bars.
>
> *The Cheviot and Charlie don't cross over in some important way, but to
> start with the similarities:*
> 1. Mine are both orange. Just the luck of the draw.
> 2. They're both long ... nearly the same length surprisingly. This makes
> for a smoothed out ride I really enjoy.
> 3. They both feel best with upright bars - drop bars on the Charlie were
> good and comfy like on the Sam, but the Charlie is just more comfortable
> with more upright bars and I wouldn't say that about the Sam.
> 4. They'll both have sidepull brakes - this is a downside for me as I want
> for the stopping power of v-brakes and only the mighty Proto-Charlie has
> them ... and the Platypus!
>
>
> *But Charlie and the Chev are different in important ways for me:*a. Need
> Charlie's v-brakes, just a personal thing. The Cheviot's sidepull r559 with
> salmon or gray (e-bike) Koolstop or Yokozuna pads are great, but not enough
> for the steep downhills of dirt I want the Cheviot to be able to take on a
> whim. They fall just short, same for my Sam (though since then others have
> come with canti-posts).
> b. Charlie flexes a bit as you take off with all your might! It's a pretty
> quick road bike and it feels great over long stretches. The Cheviot (and a
> friend's platypus I rode) are both a bit more sturdy - in fact they'd bee
> more trustworthy on more mountain bike single track than the Charlie just
> based on feel. The Cheviot or Platypus (or best of all as it's more
> affordable but less swoopy, the Rosco-Plat) are more better for bigger
> tires (the Cheviot and Charlie top out of 50mm fenderless, but the Platypus
> can take more, about 56cm / 2.2" according to Riv). That said, since my
> Cheviot is setup with 42mm Basketball tires and fenders, while the Charlie
> is set with 44mm Snoqualmie pass (and until recently, 50mm Schwalbe g-one
> All-round) tires and it more likely to see a long stretch of gravel than
> the Cheviot. If one would become more dedicated to mountain bike rides I'd
> pick the Cheviot though. of Cherlie
> c. Cheviot is a huge Cadillac sedan, a yacht of a bike with creature
> comforts and fun for s240 with a basket and rear rack. Charlie is my ideal
> "country bike" that looks for gravel and dirt stretches or eats up comfy
> miles and fun speed, while the long chain stays still give a super smooth
> ride.
>
> Platypus has the rearward swoop like Charlie's top tube, and v-brakes like
> our Proto-Charlies ... makes a very tempting bike, great colors too.
> Rosco-Plat saves some couple hundred dollarydoos but loses the swoop.
> Charlie has side pull brakes which are great for many but not me,
> otherwise it's nearly my ideal country bike. I'd only like to have the
> option for up to 55mm tires, otherwise it's perfect. That said, I just
> switched from max'd out 50mm knobbie tires to 44mm smooth tread tires so
> maybe I just want what I can't have.
>
> "I do find Charlie's lines more fetching."
> I'd call plat vs. charlie styling a wash (because they're both great), but
> if you like top tube swoop it's gotta be Charlie. The Cheviot has a more
> straight link look, but's it's classy in a similar way but different style.
> I understand the production Charlie may have slightly less swoop though,
> perhaps someone knows better though. As is, the swoop in the top tube is
> great for dismounting while still rolling 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Pancake]

Photos of Cheviot, Charlie, Sam Hillborne, Rosco Baby Bike, Gus, a Homer 
.

I've ridden a 60cm Cheviot (my first Riv) for over 5 years and the 57cm 
Charlie prototype for just over a year and around 1,750 miles of commuting, 
hills around Napa, and occasional dirt bits of single and double track. 
I'll be taking my Rosco Baby bike out to Nevada City for some mountain 
biking this weekend though that's normally has the tamer child carting work 
it's built for. My PBH is 84.5cm and I'm 6'0", around 230lbs.

My Cheviot and Charlie are setup with the same drive train almost: 46/30 
double in front and 11-40 9 or 10 speed cassette in back with friction 
shifting and clutch derailers (GRX rx810 on the Charlie, SRAM GX long on 
the Cheviot). *I should write a whole post about the wonderful discovery of 
the GRX RX810, it's what every bike I've ever had was missing for a rock 
solid drivetrain. *

I've ridden a Sam Hillborne for maybe 3 years too - but the Charlie is 
replacing it (watch for a double top tube 56cm Hillborne to be for sale 
soon). Though they're not the same (the Charlie is longer, swoopier, and 
flexier) the Cheviot is setup to for mostly commuting while the Sam was my 
bike for longer, sometimes faster rides. I mostly had it with drop bars but 
received it with Boscos and ultimately switched to Mustache bars.
 
*The Cheviot and Charlie don't cross over in some important way, but to 
start with the similarities:*
1. Mine are both orange. Just the luck of the draw.
2. They're both long ... nearly the same length surprisingly. This makes 
for a smoothed out ride I really enjoy.
3. They both feel best with upright bars - drop bars on the Charlie were 
good and comfy like on the Sam, but the Charlie is just more comfortable 
with more upright bars and I wouldn't say that about the Sam. 
4. They'll both have sidepull brakes - this is a downside for me as I want 
for the stopping power of v-brakes and only the mighty Proto-Charlie has 
them ... and the Platypus!


*But Charlie and the Chev are different in important ways for me:*a. Need 
Charlie's v-brakes, just a personal thing. The Cheviot's sidepull r559 with 
salmon or gray (e-bike) Koolstop or Yokozuna pads are great, but not enough 
for the steep downhills of dirt I want the Cheviot to be able to take on a 
whim. They fall just short, same for my Sam (though since then others have 
come with canti-posts). 
b. Charlie flexes a bit as you take off with all your might! It's a pretty 
quick road bike and it feels great over long stretches. The Cheviot (and a 
friend's platypus I rode) are both a bit more sturdy - in fact they'd bee 
more trustworthy on more mountain bike single track than the Charlie just 
based on feel. The Cheviot or Platypus (or best of all as it's more 
affordable but less swoopy, the Rosco-Plat) are more better for bigger 
tires (the Cheviot and Charlie top out of 50mm fenderless, but the Platypus 
can take more, about 56cm / 2.2" according to Riv). That said, since my 
Cheviot is setup with 42mm Basketball tires and fenders, while the Charlie 
is set with 44mm Snoqualmie pass (and until recently, 50mm Schwalbe g-one 
All-round) tires and it more likely to see a long stretch of gravel than 
the Cheviot. If one would become more dedicated to mountain bike rides I'd 
pick the Cheviot though. of Cherlie
c. Cheviot is a huge Cadillac sedan, a yacht of a bike with creature 
comforts and fun for s240 with a basket and rear rack. Charlie is my ideal 
"country bike" that looks for gravel and dirt stretches or eats up comfy 
miles and fun speed, while the long chain stays still give a super smooth 
ride. 

Platypus has the rearward swoop like Charlie's top tube, and v-brakes like 
our Proto-Charlies ... makes a very tempting bike, great colors too. 
Rosco-Plat saves some couple hundred dollarydoos but loses the swoop.
Charlie has side pull brakes which are great for many but not me, otherwise 
it's nearly my ideal country bike. I'd only like to have the option for up 
to 55mm tires, otherwise it's perfect. That said, I just switched from 
max'd out 50mm knobbie tires to 44mm smooth tread tires so maybe I just 
want what I can't have. 

"I do find Charlie's lines more fetching."
I'd call plat vs. charlie styling a wash (because they're both great), but 
if you like top tube swoop it's gotta be Charlie. The Cheviot has a more 
straight link look, but's it's classy in a similar way but different style. 
I understand the production Charlie may have slightly less swoop though, 
perhaps someone knows better though. As is, the swoop in the top tube is 
great for dismounting while still rolling by kicking a leg over the top 
tube.

"I'll be building the bike up for riding predominantly on smooth surfaces - 
paved roads and hard packed rail trails. Also thinking full fenders over 38 
or 40 mm tires - 700c or 650b. Bars maybe a cm above the seat (with 
flexibility to raise them more if needed in the future). It will 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Steve]

Thanks Piaw - I appreciate the input. I may have to add the Cheviot to my
watch list. When I began seriously looking at Rivendells I was thinking a
Roadini - but then gravitated toward the sloping TT models - especially the
curvier ones - out of a desire for something a bit different  from my
current (& previous) bikes.

BTW, after checking your "mountain biking" pic, I have to say, you're crazy
(in the best way).

On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:07 PM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:

> I test rode a Charlie with sidepull brakes last year when my Ti touring
> frame broke and Grant loaned it to me for a week. It rides very similarly
> to the Cheviot (which is the sidepull version of the Platypus), so in terms
> of riding I think it can do anything the Platypus can do. The bike Grant
> lent me had swept back bars, and I rode it on and off road and with the
> 42mm tires it felt very plush.
>
> It is probably overkill for day riding on smooth roads and light credit
> card touring, but I probably like underbiking more than most. For instance,
> I would consider the Roadini with 32mm tires a bit overkill for a 3 week
> tour of the alps -- the bigger tires slow steering enough to reduce my
> enjoyment of the descents.  My bike in this picture (
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/QQeP7phjn8wkscLG6) had 25mm tires, and I was
> happy to ride it on that trail. (and yes, maybe that's why my touring bikes
> break)
>
> On the other hand, it's the kind of bike I wouldn't hesitate to ride down
> what others would call mountain biking trails that require suspension, so
> it could very well invite you to do more than you think you can. Before my
> wife acquired her mountain bike, I put 1.75mm tires on her Cheviot and she
> treated it like a mountain bike. I will note that after she acquired a dual
> suspension MTB she said she didn't know how she got by riding the Cheviot
> down those trails I was taking her and the kids on.
>
> On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 5:53 PM Steve  wrote:
>
>> A question for any Proto Charlie riders who may also have some experience
>> with the Platy.
>>
>> I'm honing in on my FIRST Riv and have.narrowed  the field to the
>> Platypus vs the upcoming Charlie H.
>> I recognize that the Platy frameset (either brazed or lugged) is a step
>> above the TIG'd  Charlie, and that the latter is destined for side pull
>> brakes. Having said that, I do find Charlie's lines more fetching.
>>
>> I'll be building the bike up for riding predominantly on smooth surfaces
>> - paved roads and hard packed rail trails. Also thinking full fenders over
>> 38 or 40 mm tires - 700c or 650b. Bars maybe a cm above the seat (with
>> flexibility to raise them more if needed in the future). It will be mostly
>> a day rider but could see some light "credit card" touring. I'll probably
>> want to mount a rando style front  rack and run a wide range 2x9.
>>
>> Me; 165lbs, PBH 81cm, seat height ~ 68.5 cm
>>
>> Opinions? I'd love to hear from anyone who knows these two models. Thanks!
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:14:37 AM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>>
>>> @ Brendonoid: Wondering if you could not try Centerpulls on your Sam?
>>> They can be mighty effective. You could always braze on posts (I have done
>>> this on my Sam for the record) if the Centerpulls don't do it for you.
>>>
>>> John
>>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:31:28 AM UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:
>>>
 I was 100% buying a Charlie until the brake change now I am 95% not
 going to buy one. I have never had a problem with R559s and have used them
 on quite a few bikes but their clearance limitations are the real problem.
 Wet weather downhill performance can be weak but it isn't a deal breaker. I
 want big slicks on a road bike and the Charlie was going to be that bike
 for me. Oh well.

 Thinking more and more about welding canti posts onto my old sidepull
 Sam instead though...

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[藍俊彪]

I test rode a Charlie with sidepull brakes last year when my Ti touring
frame broke and Grant loaned it to me for a week. It rides very similarly
to the Cheviot (which is the sidepull version of the Platypus), so in terms
of riding I think it can do anything the Platypus can do. The bike Grant
lent me had swept back bars, and I rode it on and off road and with the
42mm tires it felt very plush.

It is probably overkill for day riding on smooth roads and light credit
card touring, but I probably like underbiking more than most. For instance,
I would consider the Roadini with 32mm tires a bit overkill for a 3 week
tour of the alps -- the bigger tires slow steering enough to reduce my
enjoyment of the descents.  My bike in this picture (
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QQeP7phjn8wkscLG6) had 25mm tires, and I was
happy to ride it on that trail. (and yes, maybe that's why my touring bikes
break)

On the other hand, it's the kind of bike I wouldn't hesitate to ride down
what others would call mountain biking trails that require suspension, so
it could very well invite you to do more than you think you can. Before my
wife acquired her mountain bike, I put 1.75mm tires on her Cheviot and she
treated it like a mountain bike. I will note that after she acquired a dual
suspension MTB she said she didn't know how she got by riding the Cheviot
down those trails I was taking her and the kids on.

On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 5:53 PM Steve  wrote:

> A question for any Proto Charlie riders who may also have some experience
> with the Platy.
>
> I'm honing in on my FIRST Riv and have.narrowed  the field to the Platypus
> vs the upcoming Charlie H.
> I recognize that the Platy frameset (either brazed or lugged) is a step
> above the TIG'd  Charlie, and that the latter is destined for side pull
> brakes. Having said that, I do find Charlie's lines more fetching.
>
> I'll be building the bike up for riding predominantly on smooth surfaces -
> paved roads and hard packed rail trails. Also thinking full fenders over 38
> or 40 mm tires - 700c or 650b. Bars maybe a cm above the seat (with
> flexibility to raise them more if needed in the future). It will be mostly
> a day rider but could see some light "credit card" touring. I'll probably
> want to mount a rando style front  rack and run a wide range 2x9.
>
> Me; 165lbs, PBH 81cm, seat height ~ 68.5 cm
>
> Opinions? I'd love to hear from anyone who knows these two models. Thanks!
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:14:37 AM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> @ Brendonoid: Wondering if you could not try Centerpulls on your Sam?
>> They can be mighty effective. You could always braze on posts (I have done
>> this on my Sam for the record) if the Centerpulls don't do it for you.
>>
>> John
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:31:28 AM UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:
>>
>>> I was 100% buying a Charlie until the brake change now I am 95% not
>>> going to buy one. I have never had a problem with R559s and have used them
>>> on quite a few bikes but their clearance limitations are the real problem.
>>> Wet weather downhill performance can be weak but it isn't a deal breaker. I
>>> want big slicks on a road bike and the Charlie was going to be that bike
>>> for me. Oh well.
>>>
>>> Thinking more and more about welding canti posts onto my old sidepull
>>> Sam instead though...
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Steve]

A question for any Proto Charlie riders who may also have some experience 
with the Platy.

I'm honing in on my FIRST Riv and have.narrowed  the field to the Platypus 
vs the upcoming Charlie H.
I recognize that the Platy frameset (either brazed or lugged) is a step 
above the TIG'd  Charlie, and that the latter is destined for side pull 
brakes. Having said that, I do find Charlie's lines more fetching.

I'll be building the bike up for riding predominantly on smooth surfaces - 
paved roads and hard packed rail trails. Also thinking full fenders over 38 
or 40 mm tires - 700c or 650b. Bars maybe a cm above the seat (with 
flexibility to raise them more if needed in the future). It will be mostly 
a day rider but could see some light "credit card" touring. I'll probably 
want to mount a rando style front  rack and run a wide range 2x9.

Me; 165lbs, PBH 81cm, seat height ~ 68.5 cm

Opinions? I'd love to hear from anyone who knows these two models. Thanks!
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:14:37 AM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:

> @ Brendonoid: Wondering if you could not try Centerpulls on your Sam? They 
> can be mighty effective. You could always braze on posts (I have done this 
> on my Sam for the record) if the Centerpulls don't do it for you.
>
> John
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:31:28 AM UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:
>
>> I was 100% buying a Charlie until the brake change now I am 95% not going 
>> to buy one. I have never had a problem with R559s and have used them on 
>> quite a few bikes but their clearance limitations are the real problem. Wet 
>> weather downhill performance can be weak but it isn't a deal breaker. I 
>> want big slicks on a road bike and the Charlie was going to be that bike 
>> for me. Oh well.
>>
>> Thinking more and more about welding canti posts onto my old sidepull Sam 
>> instead though...
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[John Bokman]

@ Brendonoid: Wondering if you could not try Centerpulls on your Sam? They 
can be mighty effective. You could always braze on posts (I have done this 
on my Sam for the record) if the Centerpulls don't do it for you.

John
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:31:28 AM UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:

> I was 100% buying a Charlie until the brake change now I am 95% not going 
> to buy one. I have never had a problem with R559s and have used them on 
> quite a few bikes but their clearance limitations are the real problem. Wet 
> weather downhill performance can be weak but it isn't a deal breaker. I 
> want big slicks on a road bike and the Charlie was going to be that bike 
> for me. Oh well.
>
> Thinking more and more about welding canti posts onto my old sidepull Sam 
> instead though...
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[brendonoid]

I was 100% buying a Charlie until the brake change now I am 95% not going 
to buy one. I have never had a problem with R559s and have used them on 
quite a few bikes but their clearance limitations are the real problem. Wet 
weather downhill performance can be weak but it isn't a deal breaker. I 
want big slicks on a road bike and the Charlie was going to be that bike 
for me. Oh well.

Thinking more and more about welding canti posts onto my old sidepull Sam 
instead though...

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Piaw Na]

I had no idea Sams ever came in a caliper brake version. No way am I taking 
my 320 pound triplet with 2 kids down the kind of dirt descents I'd take 
the single bike. But I have descended 20%+ grades on the triplet with mid 
reach calipers. But yeah, with that kind of weight I'd skid both wheels 
since the triplet never endos. (And yes, I've successfully recovered from 
skidding front wheels on tandems) Having said that mountain biking is the 
one application where I like disc brakes. My low end hydraulics squeal like 
a stuck pig but they've proven less maintenance hassle than Paul's Neo 
Retros or other cantilevers. 

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 9:52:23 AM UTC-7 Pancake wrote:

> The brake debate! Here's where my Sam's r559 brakes couldn't keep up with 
> my size (too heavy, 250+ then) and the gravel/dirt downhill grade (-26.1 
> degrees) on our way to climb the fire trails of Mt. Diablo:
> [image: Crystal Ranch drop in Lime Ridge Open Space.jpg]
> This steep segment is called "Crystal Ridge drop in" and there was a lot 
> of drop! My friend (who snagged the Sam for me when it was listed on the 
> Blahg) on his Homer and me on the sidepull Sam. We knew we were underbiking 
> by a bit as a dozen teens on full suspension carbon bikes were flying 
> around doing wheelies and looking at us like we must be lost in the Lime 
> Ridge open space .
> The r559 brakes (salmon yokozuna pads) pulled by TRP levers were *just 
> *strong enough 
> (I was pulling *hard*) to *nearly* lock the tires up in this situation. 
> Never felt so close to the edge of the braking capacity before. I would 
> have either lost traction on the tires and fallen if they locked up, or not 
> been able to slow enough and fallen if I needed to turn even a little on 
> the very steep grade. At some point I simply had to release a bit of my 
> death grip on the levers and got lucky that I could ride it out to the end. 
> My fingers were tired after that and my heart was racing. Thrilling to be 
> honest! 
> But on my Charlie with v-brakes (DXR brake arms, Avid FR-5 brake levers, 
> koolstop e-brake gray compound pads) I'm confident I would have had better 
> modulated and stronger braking power with nearly all the same other 
> components as I've swapped them between these two bikes (including the 
> Schwalbe G-one Allround 700x45mm tires). 
>
> This reminds me that I want to put canti posts on my Cheviot! Though as a 
> commuter the r559 brakes are plenty strong, sometimes I just want to take 
> it somewhere steep ... or stop right away in the rain when a drive turns 
> right in front of me without signaling. The main reason I haven't yet is 
> that I wonder if the $200-300 in welding costs would be better saved to 
> spend on a Platypus ... in silver apparently? ... someday. 
>
> The Sam and the Charlie do cross over into each other's territory - that's 
> why I'll be selling the Sam soon even though that double top tube in 56cm 
> frame is something I'll never find again. A testament to the Gallop's speed 
> and stopping power!
>
> Abe
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 10:23:24 AM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Phew, heated brake debate! There isn't much else to talk about with the 
>> Charlie since we have no recent news, so it's a good use of this thread 
>> perhaps. 
>>
>> I should clarify: I don't mind side-pull/caliper brakes from a 
>> performance standpoint, although the longer reach models required on this 
>> bike are not as good as medium and short reach models. For me it was the 
>> limitations that caliper brakes put on tire & fender clearance that is 
>> unfortunate. But the CHG is meant to be a road and light gravel bike so 
>> fitting even 38mm tires with fenders is fine in reality. I'm also using 
>> this bike in rain and snow so I wanted the extra power of V's as well as 
>> the extra fender clearance for knobby winter tires. But those are beyond 
>> the typical use-cases for this bike. 
>>
>> I totally see the caliper-lover's point of view on this - there are a lot 
>> more canti stud Rivs than caliper Rivs these days. No doubt calipers look a 
>> little sleeker on a roadish bike too. Maybe as Scott suggests we'll see a 
>> "middle ground" swoop tube model in the future between the CHG and the 
>> Hillibikes. Wait ... that's basically the Platypus. Yeah, that's further 
>> support that the CHG probably should be caliper brake. I concede. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 10:09:07 UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> In my experience, sidepulls are great as long as you only ride in the 
>>> dry and don’t plan on any emergency stops. 
>>>
>>> Eric
>>> Not a caliper fan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>>
 I have zero issues with the effectiveness of sidepulls. I used them for 
 years and years. I just think that the cantiposts gives you a lot more 
 options for brakes (cant's, v, or mini-v) AND allow for using larger tires.

 On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-4 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[藍俊彪]

I will say that when I got my Roadini setup, I was surprised by how much
better the brakes felt than my medium reach touring bike. At first, I
attributed it to the fancy Shimano brake cables I got for the Roadini. Then
I realized that I hadn't replaced the brake cables on my touring bike for
15 years! That tells you how trouble free those brakes are. I've descended
Stelvio in the rain on those sidepull calipers, overtaking people with disc
brakes equipped fancy bikes. The only thing you have to do is to run
Kool-Stop Salmon pads. I think all too often cyclists think that equipment
"upgrades" are needed, but lots of riding and practice is what you need to
develop judgement and bike handling skills. I've descended roads where I
braked so hard that I lifted the rear wheel on every corner --- with
caliper brakes. It doesn't matter how much  better your brakes are ---
braking harder than that would simply cause you to endo, so I feel no need
for better braking performance. (I will concede that descending that
quickly just to stay ahead of your riding partners reveals questionable
judgement --- I've since then stopped trying to push that hard on a descent)

I also use medium reach calipers on my triplet --- on a bike tour, my 2
kids and I  and luggage weigh 320 pounds. We don't break speed records down
mountain passes, but being able to stop has never been an issue, emergency
or not, rain or shine. If you think caliper brakes are inadequate for you
on a single bike, you probably need more practice cycling in challenging
environments.

Finally, I have to wonder what people consider trail-riding capable bikes.
I've ridden my touring bikes/triplet/single on all sorts of terrain where
people were convinced you *needed* a mountain bike on. I'm happy to ride my
Roadini under those circumstances. While there's no way I'd be as fast down
trails like that than I am on my hard tail MTB with 55mm tires, it's also
clear to me that I'm overall faster on the Roadini because you spend 3
times the amount of time climbing than you do on a descent, so a bike that
climbs better and is lighter more than compensates for having to be more
careful on the downhill and hence have to ride slower.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 10:23 AM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> Phew, heated brake debate! There isn't much else to talk about with the
> Charlie since we have no recent news, so it's a good use of this thread
> perhaps.
>
> I should clarify: I don't mind side-pull/caliper brakes from a performance
> standpoint, although the longer reach models required on this bike are not
> as good as medium and short reach models. For me it was the limitations
> that caliper brakes put on tire & fender clearance that is unfortunate. But
> the CHG is meant to be a road and light gravel bike so fitting even 38mm
> tires with fenders is fine in reality. I'm also using this bike in rain and
> snow so I wanted the extra power of V's as well as the extra fender
> clearance for knobby winter tires. But those are beyond the typical
> use-cases for this bike.
>
> I totally see the caliper-lover's point of view on this - there are a lot
> more canti stud Rivs than caliper Rivs these days. No doubt calipers look a
> little sleeker on a roadish bike too. Maybe as Scott suggests we'll see a
> "middle ground" swoop tube model in the future between the CHG and the
> Hillibikes. Wait ... that's basically the Platypus. Yeah, that's further
> support that the CHG probably should be caliper brake. I concede.
>
> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 10:09:07 UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> In my experience, sidepulls are great as long as you only ride in the dry
>> and don’t plan on any emergency stops.
>>
>> Eric
>> Not a caliper fan
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>
>>> I have zero issues with the effectiveness of sidepulls. I used them for
>>> years and years. I just think that the cantiposts gives you a lot more
>>> options for brakes (cant's, v, or mini-v) AND allow for using larger tires.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>>
 I remember back in the days before V-brakes and disc brakes when
 numerous cyclo-tourists and Tour de France racers were going over cliffs on
 mountain descents because sidepulls and centerpulls don't work - *N*
 *OT.*
 But I do remember when you adjusted the toe-in of your brake pad by
 twisting the caliper arms with a big crescent wrench in order to eliminate
 squeal.

 Laing
 On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or
> v-brakes. I bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper
> brakes for my wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required V-brakes
> or Cantis as I have never been able to even replace brake pads on those
> without causing squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better than
> either of those for my 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jason Fuller]

Phew, heated brake debate! There isn't much else to talk about with the 
Charlie since we have no recent news, so it's a good use of this thread 
perhaps. 

I should clarify: I don't mind side-pull/caliper brakes from a performance 
standpoint, although the longer reach models required on this bike are not 
as good as medium and short reach models. For me it was the limitations 
that caliper brakes put on tire & fender clearance that is unfortunate. But 
the CHG is meant to be a road and light gravel bike so fitting even 38mm 
tires with fenders is fine in reality. I'm also using this bike in rain and 
snow so I wanted the extra power of V's as well as the extra fender 
clearance for knobby winter tires. But those are beyond the typical 
use-cases for this bike. 

I totally see the caliper-lover's point of view on this - there are a lot 
more canti stud Rivs than caliper Rivs these days. No doubt calipers look a 
little sleeker on a roadish bike too. Maybe as Scott suggests we'll see a 
"middle ground" swoop tube model in the future between the CHG and the 
Hillibikes. Wait ... that's basically the Platypus. Yeah, that's further 
support that the CHG probably should be caliper brake. I concede. 

On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 10:09:07 UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> In my experience, sidepulls are great as long as you only ride in the dry 
> and don’t plan on any emergency stops. 
>
> Eric
> Not a caliper fan
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
>> I have zero issues with the effectiveness of sidepulls. I used them for 
>> years and years. I just think that the cantiposts gives you a lot more 
>> options for brakes (cant's, v, or mini-v) AND allow for using larger tires.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> I remember back in the days before V-brakes and disc brakes when 
>>> numerous cyclo-tourists and Tour de France racers were going over cliffs on 
>>> mountain descents because sidepulls and centerpulls don't work - *N*
>>> *OT.*  
>>> But I do remember when you adjusted the toe-in of your brake pad by 
>>> twisting the caliper arms with a big crescent wrench in order to eliminate 
>>> squeal.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or v-brakes. 
 I bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper brakes for 
 my 
 wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required V-brakes or Cantis as I 
 have never been able to even replace brake pads on those without causing 
 squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better than either of those 
 for my riding style, though not as good as sidepulls. In any case, as Joe 
 pointed out --- there are plenty of canti or v-brake bikes in the 
 Rivendell 
 lineup. No need to begrudge us sidepull fans 3 models.

 On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 6:13:39 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use v-brakes 
> and sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. I don't 
> think the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from moving 
> closer 
> to the Hillborne's mission. 
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road 
>> brakes won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs 
>> a 
>> mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are 
>> decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess 
>> they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the 
>> "designed 
>> for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes. 
>> This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from 
>> them.
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls. 
>>> Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a 
>>> design 
>>> decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very curious why 
>>> they 
>>> went with this decision - the argument that it's a road-ish bike and 
>>> therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy one.  
>>>
>>> Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit!  For fun, I 
>>> tried 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of 
>>> clearance on the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter but 
>>> still about 4mm clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but 
>>> it 
>>> was a fun experiment. 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>>
 Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a 
 huge mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Eric Daume]

In my experience, sidepulls are great as long as you only ride in the dry
and don’t plan on any emergency stops.

Eric
Not a caliper fan

On Tuesday, April 25, 2023, Johnny Alien  wrote:

> I have zero issues with the effectiveness of sidepulls. I used them for
> years and years. I just think that the cantiposts gives you a lot more
> options for brakes (cant's, v, or mini-v) AND allow for using larger tires.
>
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> I remember back in the days before V-brakes and disc brakes when numerous
>> cyclo-tourists and Tour de France racers were going over cliffs on mountain
>> descents because sidepulls and centerpulls don't work - *N**OT.*
>> But I do remember when you adjusted the toe-in of your brake pad by
>> twisting the caliper arms with a big crescent wrench in order to eliminate
>> squeal.
>>
>> Laing
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or v-brakes.
>>> I bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper brakes for my
>>> wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required V-brakes or Cantis as I
>>> have never been able to even replace brake pads on those without causing
>>> squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better than either of those
>>> for my riding style, though not as good as sidepulls. In any case, as Joe
>>> pointed out --- there are plenty of canti or v-brake bikes in the Rivendell
>>> lineup. No need to begrudge us sidepull fans 3 models.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 6:13:39 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use v-brakes
 and sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. I don't
 think the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from moving closer
 to the Hillborne's mission.

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road
> brakes won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs a
> mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are
> decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess
> they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the "designed
> for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes.
> This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from
> them.
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls.
>> Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a 
>> design
>> decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very curious why they
>> went with this decision - the argument that it's a road-ish bike and
>> therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy one.
>>
>> Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit!  For fun, I
>> tried 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of
>> clearance on the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter but
>> still about 4mm clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but it
>> was a fun experiment.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>
>>> Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a
>>> huge mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a nice 
>>> and
>>> fun bikes!
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:
>>>
 Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was
 surprised when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production 
 models
 had canti posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked 
 bike. I
 recently took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some
 single track adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the lightened
 front end feels so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated
 basket rack/fender city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about 
 his
 rock combo and homer recently.

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little
> heavier than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the
> frame where I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is
> secured it sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because 
> they're in
> the waiting phase now.
>
> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your
>> other bikes. It's cool 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[greenteadrinkers]

Not to totally change the conversation around brake preferences, but I 
thought Jason pointed out a few things I find exciting about the Charlie H 
Gallop. A "scrawny Hillibike" and "650b for the middle sizes". Maybe a 
little down the road, the Charlie H Gallop could become a template for 
another design, envisioning something in the spirit of the Atlantis or 
Appaloosa but droop tubed. Maybe a scrawny Susie, more road-friendly but 
still rough trail able. Charlie H Gallop's brawnier sibling? I know getting 
ahead of things here, but love the direction Charlie H Gallop is pointing.
Scott

On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I have zero issues with the effectiveness of sidepulls. I used them for 
> years and years. I just think that the cantiposts gives you a lot more 
> options for brakes (cant's, v, or mini-v) AND allow for using larger tires.
>
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> I remember back in the days before V-brakes and disc brakes when numerous 
>> cyclo-tourists and Tour de France racers were going over cliffs on mountain 
>> descents because sidepulls and centerpulls don't work - *N**OT.*  
>> But I do remember when you adjusted the toe-in of your brake pad by 
>> twisting the caliper arms with a big crescent wrench in order to eliminate 
>> squeal.
>>
>> Laing
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or v-brakes. 
>>> I bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper brakes for my 
>>> wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required V-brakes or Cantis as I 
>>> have never been able to even replace brake pads on those without causing 
>>> squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better than either of those 
>>> for my riding style, though not as good as sidepulls. In any case, as Joe 
>>> pointed out --- there are plenty of canti or v-brake bikes in the Rivendell 
>>> lineup. No need to begrudge us sidepull fans 3 models.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 6:13:39 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use v-brakes 
 and sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. I don't 
 think the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from moving 
 closer 
 to the Hillborne's mission. 

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road 
> brakes won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs 
> a 
> mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are 
> decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess 
> they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the 
> "designed 
> for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes. 
> This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from 
> them.
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls. 
>> Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a 
>> design 
>> decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very curious why they 
>> went with this decision - the argument that it's a road-ish bike and 
>> therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy one.  
>>
>> Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit!  For fun, I 
>> tried 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of 
>> clearance on the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter but 
>> still about 4mm clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but it 
>> was a fun experiment. 
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>
>>> Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a 
>>> huge mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a nice 
>>> and 
>>> fun bikes!
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:
>>>
 Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was 
 surprised when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production 
 models 
 had canti posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked 
 bike. I 
 recently took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some 
 single track adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the 
 lightened 
 front end feels so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated 
 basket rack/fender city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about 
 his 
 rock combo and homer recently.

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Thanks Dustin, 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

I have zero issues with the effectiveness of sidepulls. I used them for 
years and years. I just think that the cantiposts gives you a lot more 
options for brakes (cant's, v, or mini-v) AND allow for using larger tires.

On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> I remember back in the days before V-brakes and disc brakes when numerous 
> cyclo-tourists and Tour de France racers were going over cliffs on mountain 
> descents because sidepulls and centerpulls don't work - *N**OT.*  
> But I do remember when you adjusted the toe-in of your brake pad by 
> twisting the caliper arms with a big crescent wrench in order to eliminate 
> squeal.
>
> Laing
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or v-brakes. I 
>> bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper brakes for my 
>> wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required V-brakes or Cantis as I 
>> have never been able to even replace brake pads on those without causing 
>> squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better than either of those 
>> for my riding style, though not as good as sidepulls. In any case, as Joe 
>> pointed out --- there are plenty of canti or v-brake bikes in the Rivendell 
>> lineup. No need to begrudge us sidepull fans 3 models.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 6:13:39 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use v-brakes 
>>> and sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. I don't 
>>> think the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from moving closer 
>>> to the Hillborne's mission. 
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road 
 brakes won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs a 
 mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are 
 decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess 
 they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the "designed 
 for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes. 
 This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from 
 them.

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls. 
> Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a 
> design 
> decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very curious why they 
> went with this decision - the argument that it's a road-ish bike and 
> therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy one.  
>
> Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit!  For fun, I 
> tried 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of 
> clearance on the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter but 
> still about 4mm clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but it 
> was a fun experiment. 
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
>> Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a 
>> huge mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a nice 
>> and 
>> fun bikes!
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was 
>>> surprised when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production 
>>> models 
>>> had canti posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked 
>>> bike. I 
>>> recently took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some 
>>> single track adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the lightened 
>>> front end feels so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated 
>>> basket rack/fender city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about 
>>> his 
>>> rock combo and homer recently.
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little 
 heavier than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the 
 frame where I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is 
 secured it sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because 
 they're in 
 the waiting phase now. 

 On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your 
> other bikes. It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for 
> particular 
> purposes. 
>
> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube 
> mounted folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[lconley]

I remember back in the days before V-brakes and disc brakes when numerous 
cyclo-tourists and Tour de France racers were going over cliffs on mountain 
descents because sidepulls and centerpulls don't work - *N**OT.*  
But I do remember when you adjusted the toe-in of your brake pad by 
twisting the caliper arms with a big crescent wrench in order to eliminate 
squeal.

Laing
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or v-brakes. I 
> bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper brakes for my 
> wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required V-brakes or Cantis as I 
> have never been able to even replace brake pads on those without causing 
> squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better than either of those 
> for my riding style, though not as good as sidepulls. In any case, as Joe 
> pointed out --- there are plenty of canti or v-brake bikes in the Rivendell 
> lineup. No need to begrudge us sidepull fans 3 models.
>
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 6:13:39 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use v-brakes and 
>> sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. I don't think 
>> the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from moving closer to 
>> the Hillborne's mission. 
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road 
>>> brakes won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs a 
>>> mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are 
>>> decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess 
>>> they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the "designed 
>>> for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes. 
>>> This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from 
>>> them.
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls. 
 Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a design 
 decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very curious why they 
 went with this decision - the argument that it's a road-ish bike and 
 therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy one.  

 Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit!  For fun, I tried 
 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of clearance on 
 the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter but still about 4mm 
 clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but it was a fun 
 experiment. 

 On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm  wrote:

> Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a 
> huge mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a nice 
> and 
> fun bikes!
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:
>
>> Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was 
>> surprised when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production 
>> models 
>> had canti posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked bike. 
>> I 
>> recently took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some 
>> single track adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the lightened 
>> front end feels so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated 
>> basket rack/fender city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about 
>> his 
>> rock combo and homer recently.
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little 
>>> heavier than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the 
>>> frame where I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is 
>>> secured it sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because they're 
>>> in 
>>> the waiting phase now. 
>>>
>>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other 
 bikes. It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular 
 purposes. 

 Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted 
 folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:

> I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie 
> project and he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. 
> Hopefully this will happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a 
> daily 
> commuter to complement my Clem H. The Clem is my 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Piaw Na]

I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or v-brakes. I 
bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper brakes for my 
wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required V-brakes or Cantis as I 
have never been able to even replace brake pads on those without causing 
squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better than either of those 
for my riding style, though not as good as sidepulls. In any case, as Joe 
pointed out --- there are plenty of canti or v-brake bikes in the Rivendell 
lineup. No need to begrudge us sidepull fans 3 models.

On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 6:13:39 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use v-brakes and 
> sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. I don't think 
> the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from moving closer to 
> the Hillborne's mission. 
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road brakes 
>> won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs a 
>> mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are 
>> decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess 
>> they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the "designed 
>> for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes. 
>> This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from 
>> them.
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls. 
>>> Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a design 
>>> decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very curious why they 
>>> went with this decision - the argument that it's a road-ish bike and 
>>> therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy one.  
>>>
>>> Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit!  For fun, I tried 
>>> 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of clearance on 
>>> the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter but still about 4mm 
>>> clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but it was a fun 
>>> experiment. 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>>
 Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a huge 
 mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a nice and fun 
 bikes!

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:

> Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was 
> surprised when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production 
> models 
> had canti posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked bike. 
> I 
> recently took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some 
> single track adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the lightened 
> front end feels so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated 
> basket rack/fender city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about his 
> rock combo and homer recently.
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little 
>> heavier than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the 
>> frame where I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is 
>> secured it sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because they're 
>> in 
>> the waiting phase now. 
>>
>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other 
>>> bikes. It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular 
>>> purposes. 
>>>
>>> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted 
>>> folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:
>>>
 I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie 
 project and he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. 
 Hopefully this will happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a 
 daily 
 commuter to complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy 
 hauler, whereas the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.

 On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I 
> sold mine around the time of the last post, but recently bought it 
> back 
> from the friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it 
> similarly to before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 
> saddle, triple crankset with early 90's XT, 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Joe Bernard]

I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use v-brakes and 
sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. I don't think 
the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from moving closer to 
the Hillborne's mission. 

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road brakes 
> won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs a 
> mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are 
> decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess 
> they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the "designed 
> for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes. 
> This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from 
> them.
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls. 
>> Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a design 
>> decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very curious why they 
>> went with this decision - the argument that it's a road-ish bike and 
>> therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy one.  
>>
>> Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit!  For fun, I tried 
>> 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of clearance on 
>> the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter but still about 4mm 
>> clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but it was a fun 
>> experiment. 
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>
>>> Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a huge 
>>> mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a nice and fun 
>>> bikes!
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:
>>>
 Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was surprised 
 when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production models had canti 
 posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked bike. I recently 
 took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some single track 
 adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the lightened front end feels 
 so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated basket rack/fender 
 city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about his rock combo and 
 homer 
 recently.

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little 
> heavier than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the 
> frame where I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is 
> secured it sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because they're 
> in 
> the waiting phase now. 
>
> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other 
>> bikes. It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular 
>> purposes. 
>>
>> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted 
>> folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:
>>
>>> I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie 
>>> project and he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. 
>>> Hopefully this will happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a 
>>> daily 
>>> commuter to complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy 
>>> hauler, whereas the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold 
 mine around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back 
 from the 
 friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly 
 to 
 before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
 crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars 
 plugged 
 back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
 everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - 
 now the 
 Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be 
 reconfigured 
 to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 

 I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's 
 still on the books?? 


 [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg]

 On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:

> Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm 
> extension 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Eric Marth]

Ah, dag, I know we talked about the brake mounts before but I forgot all 
about it. 

Definitely wish the production run was set up for canti posts! 

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:58:42 PM UTC-4 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> Solid bike---glad that you got it back. I'm liking that drivetrain with 
> the triple up front; you can tackle anything with this bike.
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 8:00:09 PM UTC-7 Pancake wrote:
>
>> Love mine with v-brakes - that’s what makes it perfect to me really so 
>> I’m thrilled I got a prototype. But they’re right about mini-v-brakes just 
>> not quite working. I tried 4 different models with different arm lengths 
>> (82-90mm) and it was never right: too much pull required to get pad to rim 
>> contact, but then too much mechanical advantage so very limited modulation. 
>>
>> But with standard v-brakes (with linear pull / long pull) the bike 
>> shines. Modulation but also super stopping power that caliper and sidepull 
>> brakes can’t match. That’s why it is replacing my Sam instead of the Sam 
>> getting brake mounts welded on. 
>>
>> I’ve probably put 2,000 miles of this bike and it’s almost always my go 
>> to: commuting or dirt or a century ride - I’d be happy with the 
>> proto-Charlie for any of those! 
>>
>> Inverted albatross bars are perfect for 22.2mm v-brake lever clamps while 
>> giving a super shallow drop position. Bar ends mounted forward in the curve 
>> of the albatross bars gives a hood-like position I love too.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Tony Lockhart]

Solid bike---glad that you got it back. I'm liking that drivetrain with the 
triple up front; you can tackle anything with this bike.

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 8:00:09 PM UTC-7 Pancake wrote:

> Love mine with v-brakes - that’s what makes it perfect to me really so I’m 
> thrilled I got a prototype. But they’re right about mini-v-brakes just not 
> quite working. I tried 4 different models with different arm lengths 
> (82-90mm) and it was never right: too much pull required to get pad to rim 
> contact, but then too much mechanical advantage so very limited modulation. 
>
> But with standard v-brakes (with linear pull / long pull) the bike shines. 
> Modulation but also super stopping power that caliper and sidepull brakes 
> can’t match. That’s why it is replacing my Sam instead of the Sam getting 
> brake mounts welded on. 
>
> I’ve probably put 2,000 miles of this bike and it’s almost always my go 
> to: commuting or dirt or a century ride - I’d be happy with the 
> proto-Charlie for any of those! 
>
> Inverted albatross bars are perfect for 22.2mm v-brake lever clamps while 
> giving a super shallow drop position. Bar ends mounted forward in the curve 
> of the albatross bars gives a hood-like position I love too.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Pancake]

Love mine with v-brakes - that’s what makes it perfect to me really so I’m 
thrilled I got a prototype. But they’re right about mini-v-brakes just not 
quite working. I tried 4 different models with different arm lengths 
(82-90mm) and it was never right: too much pull required to get pad to rim 
contact, but then too much mechanical advantage so very limited modulation. 

But with standard v-brakes (with linear pull / long pull) the bike shines. 
Modulation but also super stopping power that caliper and sidepull brakes 
can’t match. That’s why it is replacing my Sam instead of the Sam getting 
brake mounts welded on. 

I’ve probably put 2,000 miles of this bike and it’s almost always my go to: 
commuting or dirt or a century ride - I’d be happy with the proto-Charlie 
for any of those! 

Inverted albatross bars are perfect for 22.2mm v-brake lever clamps while 
giving a super shallow drop position. Bar ends mounted forward in the curve 
of the albatross bars gives a hood-like position I love too.

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road brakes 
won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup vs a 
mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are 
decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I guess 
they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the "designed 
for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road brakes. 
This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading from 
them.

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach sidepulls. 
> Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in opposition of a design 
> decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very curious why they 
> went with this decision - the argument that it's a road-ish bike and 
> therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy one.  
>
> Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit!  For fun, I tried 
> 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of clearance on 
> the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter but still about 4mm 
> clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but it was a fun 
> experiment. 
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
>> Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a huge 
>> mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a nice and fun 
>> bikes!
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was surprised 
>>> when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production models had canti 
>>> posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked bike. I recently 
>>> took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some single track 
>>> adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the lightened front end feels 
>>> so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated basket rack/fender 
>>> city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about his rock combo and homer 
>>> recently.
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little heavier 
 than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the frame where 
 I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is secured it 
 sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because they're in the 
 waiting 
 phase now. 

 On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other 
> bikes. It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular 
> purposes. 
>
> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted 
> folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:
>
>> I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie project 
>> and he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. Hopefully 
>> this 
>> will happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a daily commuter to 
>> complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy hauler, whereas 
>> the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.
>>
>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold 
>>> mine around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from 
>>> the 
>>> friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly 
>>> to 
>>> before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
>>> crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged 
>>> back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
>>> everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now 
>>> the 
>>> Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be 
>>> reconfigured 
>>> to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 
>>>
>>> I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still 
>>> on the books?? 
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm 
 extension (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near 
 the 
 the minimum insertion line 

 Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so 
 maybe that will work better for me.

 Max
 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:

> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
> [image: 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Ryan Frahm]

Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s a huge 
mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a nice and fun 
bikes!

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:

> Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was surprised 
> when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production models had canti 
> posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked bike. I recently 
> took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some single track 
> adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the lightened front end feels 
> so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated basket rack/fender 
> city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about his rock combo and homer 
> recently.
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little heavier 
>> than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the frame where 
>> I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is secured it 
>> sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because they're in the waiting 
>> phase now. 
>>
>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other 
>>> bikes. It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular 
>>> purposes. 
>>>
>>> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted 
>>> folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:
>>>
 I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie project 
 and he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. Hopefully this 
 will happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a daily commuter to 
 complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy hauler, whereas 
 the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.

 On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold 
> mine around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from 
> the 
> friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly to 
> before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
> crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged 
> back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
> everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now 
> the 
> Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be 
> reconfigured 
> to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 
>
> I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still 
> on the books?? 
>
>
> [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg]
>
> On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm 
>> extension (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the 
>> the minimum insertion line 
>>
>> Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so 
>> maybe that will work better for me.
>>
>> Max
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
>>> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will 
>>> again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail 
>>> too 
>>> which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are 
>>> pretty cozy so I'll try them both.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:
>>>
 Yes, changed stems:
 Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
 Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic

 Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the 
 minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy 
 of min 
 insertion line. 

 I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle 
 almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 

 The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my 
 Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to 
 pull 
 on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 
 11cm of 
 stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry 
 about 
 knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. 
 And I 
 wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam 
 reason. 

 My next move is to try swapping the 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Stephen]

Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was surprised 
when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production models had canti 
posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked bike. I recently 
took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on some single track 
adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the lightened front end feels 
so good.. makes me want to have a different dedicated basket rack/fender 
city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings about his rock combo and homer 
recently.

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little heavier 
> than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the frame where 
> I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is secured it 
> sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because they're in the waiting 
> phase now. 
>
> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other 
>> bikes. It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular 
>> purposes. 
>>
>> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted 
>> folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:
>>
>>> I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie project 
>>> and he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. Hopefully this 
>>> will happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a daily commuter to 
>>> complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy hauler, whereas 
>>> the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold 
 mine around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from 
 the 
 friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly to 
 before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
 crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged 
 back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
 everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now 
 the 
 Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be reconfigured 
 to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 

 I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still on 
 the books?? 


 [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg]

 On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:

> Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm 
> extension (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the 
> the minimum insertion line 
>
> Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so 
> maybe that will work better for me.
>
> Max
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
>> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will 
>> again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too 
>> which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are 
>> pretty cozy so I'll try them both.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, changed stems:
>>> Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
>>> Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic
>>>
>>> Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the 
>>> minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of 
>>> min 
>>> insertion line. 
>>>
>>> I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle 
>>> almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 
>>>
>>> The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my 
>>> Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to 
>>> pull 
>>> on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm 
>>> of 
>>> stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about 
>>> knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. 
>>> And I 
>>> wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam 
>>> reason. 
>>>
>>> My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd 
>>> with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus 
>>> doesn’t take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it 
>>> starts to skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max 
>>> gear 
>>> size and chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jason Fuller]

Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock.  A little heavier 
than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on the frame where 
I can't forget it.  I'm glad to hear the production run is secured it 
sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because they're in the waiting 
phase now. 

On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other bikes. 
> It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular purposes. 
>
> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted 
> folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:
>
>> I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie project and 
>> he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. Hopefully this will 
>> happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a daily commuter to 
>> complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy hauler, whereas 
>> the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.
>>
>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold mine 
>>> around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from the 
>>> friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly to 
>>> before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
>>> crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged 
>>> back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
>>> everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now the 
>>> Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be reconfigured 
>>> to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 
>>>
>>> I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still on 
>>> the books?? 
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm 
 extension (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the 
 the minimum insertion line 

 Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so 
 maybe that will work better for me.

 Max
 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:

> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
> [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will 
> again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too 
> which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are 
> pretty cozy so I'll try them both.  
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:
>
>> Yes, changed stems:
>> Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
>> Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic
>>
>> Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the 
>> minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of 
>> min 
>> insertion line. 
>>
>> I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle 
>> almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 
>>
>> The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my 
>> Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to 
>> pull 
>> on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm 
>> of 
>> stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about 
>> knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. 
>> And I 
>> wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. 
>>
>> My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd 
>> with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus 
>> doesn’t take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it 
>> starts to skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max 
>> gear 
>> size and chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t cassette). If I 
>> was 
>> less heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but I’m hoping the wider 
>> wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. 
>>
>> In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the Charlie is a 
>> rocket that pulls my weight off the seat to pedal harder and faster like 
>> in 
>> the drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in “sit up and beg” mode - 
>> very 
>> tall to see well in traffic and nice for standing up as I pedal uphills, 
>> but relaxed enough to putter around town for as long as I could want. 
>> The 
>> long arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just perfect and so strong I can’t 
>> imagine ever wishing for disc brakes. What 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Eric Marth]

Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your other bikes. 
It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for particular purposes. 

Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube mounted folding 
lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle bosses. 

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote:

> I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie project and 
> he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. Hopefully this will 
> happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a daily commuter to 
> complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy hauler, whereas 
> the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.
>
> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold mine 
>> around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from the 
>> friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly to 
>> before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
>> crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged 
>> back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
>> everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now the 
>> Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be reconfigured 
>> to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 
>>
>> I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still on 
>> the books?? 
>>
>>
>> [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg]
>>
>> On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm 
>>> extension (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the 
>>> the minimum insertion line 
>>>
>>> Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so maybe 
>>> that will work better for me.
>>>
>>> Max
>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>>
 [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
 [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
 [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
 FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will 
 again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too 
 which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are 
 pretty cozy so I'll try them both.  

 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:

> Yes, changed stems:
> Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
> Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic
>
> Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the 
> minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of 
> min 
> insertion line. 
>
> I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle 
> almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 
>
> The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my 
> Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to 
> pull 
> on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm 
> of 
> stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about 
> knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. And 
> I 
> wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. 
>
> My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd 
> with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus 
> doesn’t take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it 
> starts to skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max 
> gear 
> size and chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t cassette). If I 
> was 
> less heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but I’m hoping the wider 
> wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. 
>
> In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the Charlie is a rocket 
> that pulls my weight off the seat to pedal harder and faster like in the 
> drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in “sit up and beg” mode - very 
> tall 
> to see well in traffic and nice for standing up as I pedal uphills, but 
> relaxed enough to putter around town for as long as I could want. The 
> long 
> arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just perfect and so strong I can’t 
> imagine 
> ever wishing for disc brakes. What a fun and versatile bike! These should 
> sell out every time, it’s the best Riv I’ve been on (which includes: 
> Cheviot, Sam Hillborne, Saluki, Homer, Gus, Suzie, Rosco Baby). Fast like 
> Homer, strong and versatile like Sam, better braking than any other, 
> swoopy 
> goodness. 
>
> Abe
>
> On Nov 16, 2022, at 1:51 PM, maxcr  wrote:
>
> Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length going from 
> the Soma Portola to 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[DJC]

I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie project and 
he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production run. Hopefully this will 
happen, as I'm definitely interested in one as a daily commuter to 
complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and heavy hauler, whereas 
the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter.

On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold mine 
> around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from the 
> friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly to 
> before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
> crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged 
> back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
> everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now the 
> Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be reconfigured 
> to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 
>
> I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still on 
> the books?? 
>
>
> [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg]
>
> On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm extension 
>> (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the the minimum 
>> insertion line 
>>
>> Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so maybe 
>> that will work better for me.
>>
>> Max
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
>>> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will 
>>> again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too 
>>> which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are 
>>> pretty cozy so I'll try them both.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:
>>>
 Yes, changed stems:
 Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
 Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic

 Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the 
 minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of 
 min 
 insertion line. 

 I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle 
 almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 

 The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my 
 Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to pull 
 on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm of 
 stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about 
 knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. And 
 I 
 wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. 

 My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd 
 with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus 
 doesn’t take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it 
 starts to skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max gear 
 size and chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t cassette). If I 
 was 
 less heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but I’m hoping the wider 
 wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. 

 In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the Charlie is a rocket 
 that pulls my weight off the seat to pedal harder and faster like in the 
 drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in “sit up and beg” mode - very tall 
 to see well in traffic and nice for standing up as I pedal uphills, but 
 relaxed enough to putter around town for as long as I could want. The long 
 arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just perfect and so strong I can’t imagine 
 ever wishing for disc brakes. What a fun and versatile bike! These should 
 sell out every time, it’s the best Riv I’ve been on (which includes: 
 Cheviot, Sam Hillborne, Saluki, Homer, Gus, Suzie, Rosco Baby). Fast like 
 Homer, strong and versatile like Sam, better braking than any other, 
 swoopy 
 goodness. 

 Abe

 On Nov 16, 2022, at 1:51 PM, maxcr  wrote:

 Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length going from 
 the Soma Portola to the Albatross?


 Max

 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:41:21 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

> I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside down) on my 
> Charlie, but I think I need to tweak them. I haven't installed my grips 
> yet, but after a quick 20m ride my hands/wrists made it clear that the 
> angle wasn't working.
>
> Here is a photo of the process, I'll post the new setup once I have 
> the grips finalized.
>

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

I'm still loving mine. The only change I made since my last update was 
moving to slighly wider losco bars. At some point I am going to throw on 
some paul minimoto brakes but there is no real reason other than having 
some Paul parts. It should still be coming from Rivendell but I am not as 
fond of the updates they made so I am glad to have the proto version.

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 7:49:49 AM UTC-4 Dustin wrote:

> Jason,
>
> Thanks for the update. Looks like a joy to ride. 
>
> What is that black, rectangular contraption attached to the bottom of your 
> seat tube?  
>
> Dustin
>
> On Apr 23, 2023, at 11:12 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold mine 
> around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from the 
> friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly to 
> before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple 
> crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged 
> back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my 
> everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now the 
> Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be reconfigured 
> to focus on adventure and bikepacking. 
>
>
>
> I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still on 
> the books?? 
>
>
> 
>
>
> On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm extension 
>> (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the the minimum 
>> insertion line 
>>
>> Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so maybe 
>> that will work better for me.
>>
>> Max
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
>>> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will 
>>> again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too 
>>> which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are 
>>> pretty cozy so I'll try them both.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:
>>>
 Yes, changed stems:
 Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
 Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic

 Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the 
 minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of 
 min 
 insertion line. 

 I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle 
 almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 

 The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my 
 Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to pull 
 on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm of 
 stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about 
 knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. And 
 I 
 wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. 

 My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd 
 with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus 
 doesn’t take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it 
 starts to skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max gear 
 size and chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t cassette). If I 
 was 
 less heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but I’m hoping the wider 
 wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. 

 In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the Charlie is a rocket 
 that pulls my weight off the seat to pedal harder and faster like in the 
 drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in “sit up and beg” mode - very tall 
 to see well in traffic and nice for standing up as I pedal uphills, but 
 relaxed enough to putter around town for as long as I could want. The long 
 arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just perfect and so strong I can’t imagine 
 ever wishing for disc brakes. What a fun and versatile bike! These should 
 sell out every time, it’s the best Riv I’ve been on (which includes: 
 Cheviot, Sam Hillborne, Saluki, Homer, Gus, Suzie, Rosco Baby). Fast like 
 Homer, strong and versatile like Sam, better braking than any other, 
 swoopy 
 goodness. 

 Abe

 On Nov 16, 2022, at 1:51 PM, maxcr  wrote:

 Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length going from 
 the Soma Portola to the Albatross?


 Max

 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:41:21 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

> I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside down) on my 
> Charlie, but I think I need to tweak them. I haven't installed my grips 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[D D]

Jason,Thanks for the update. Looks like a joy to ride. What is that black, rectangular contraption attached to the bottom of your seat tube?  DustinOn Apr 23, 2023, at 11:12 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, I sold mine around the time of the last post, but recently bought it back from the friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I rebuilt it similarly to before, but with a few differences such as a B17 vs C17 saddle, triple crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. but the same bars plugged back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's truly ideal for my everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the first place - now the Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as such, be reconfigured to focus on adventure and bikepacking. I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if it's still on the books?? On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote:Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm extension (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the the minimum insertion line Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so maybe that will work better for me.MaxOn Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are pretty cozy so I'll try them both.  On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:Yes, changed stems:Soma Portola with 6cm extension TechnomicNitto Labarross with 10cm extension TechnomicBoth were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of min insertion line. I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to pull on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm of stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. And I wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus doesn’t take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it starts to skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max gear size and chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t cassette). If I was less heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but I’m hoping the wider wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the Charlie is a rocket that pulls my weight off the seat to pedal harder and faster like in the drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in “sit up and beg” mode - very tall to see well in traffic and nice for standing up as I pedal uphills, but relaxed enough to putter around town for as long as I could want. The long arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just perfect and so strong I can’t imagine ever wishing for disc brakes. What a fun and versatile bike! These should sell out every time, it’s the best Riv I’ve been on (which includes: Cheviot, Sam Hillborne, Saluki, Homer, Gus, Suzie, Rosco Baby). Fast like Homer, strong and versatile like Sam, better braking than any other, swoopy goodness. AbeOn Nov 16, 2022, at 1:51 PM, maxcr  wrote:Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length going from the Soma Portola to the Albatross?MaxOn Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:41:21 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside down) on my Charlie, but I think I need to tweak them. I haven't installed my grips yet, but after a quick 20m ride my hands/wrists made it clear that the angle wasn't working.Here is a photo of the process, I'll post the new setup once I have the grips finalized.I do like the Paul levers / Paul v-brake combo, brakes feel better than the cane creek ones I had on the noodles.Abe, would you mind posting a side photo of your CHG?Max, always tinkering in BostonOn Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 6:01:32 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
Excellent...thanks for the report, Abe!





On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 03:57:58 PM MST, Abe Gardner  wrote:



Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for gravel and chunky pavement; very good on smooth pavement. Slight noise on pavement but only compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) tire smoothness. I’d love to try Hatcher Pass 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[maxcr]

Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm extension 
(w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the the minimum 
insertion line 

Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so maybe 
that will work better for me.

Max
On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:

> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
> [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will again 
> as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too which 
> are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are pretty 
> cozy so I'll try them both.  
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:
>
>> Yes, changed stems:
>> Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
>> Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic
>>
>> Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the minimum 
>> insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of min 
>> insertion line. 
>>
>> I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle almost 
>> as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 
>>
>> The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my Cheviot. 
>> With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to pull on or 
>> lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm of stem 
>> extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about knee 
>> strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. And I 
>> wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. 
>>
>> My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd with 
>> a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus doesn’t 
>> take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it starts to 
>> skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max gear size and 
>> chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t cassette). If I was less 
>> heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but I’m hoping the wider 
>> wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. 
>>
>> In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the Charlie is a rocket 
>> that pulls my weight off the seat to pedal harder and faster like in the 
>> drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in “sit up and beg” mode - very tall 
>> to see well in traffic and nice for standing up as I pedal uphills, but 
>> relaxed enough to putter around town for as long as I could want. The long 
>> arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just perfect and so strong I can’t imagine 
>> ever wishing for disc brakes. What a fun and versatile bike! These should 
>> sell out every time, it’s the best Riv I’ve been on (which includes: 
>> Cheviot, Sam Hillborne, Saluki, Homer, Gus, Suzie, Rosco Baby). Fast like 
>> Homer, strong and versatile like Sam, better braking than any other, swoopy 
>> goodness. 
>>
>> Abe
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2022, at 1:51 PM, maxcr  wrote:
>>
>> Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length going from the Soma 
>> Portola to the Albatross?
>>
>>
>> Max
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:41:21 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside down) on my 
>>> Charlie, but I think I need to tweak them. I haven't installed my grips 
>>> yet, but after a quick 20m ride my hands/wrists made it clear that the 
>>> angle wasn't working.
>>>
>>> Here is a photo of the process, I'll post the new setup once I have the 
>>> grips finalized.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_8661 (1).jpeg]
>>>
>>> I do like the Paul levers / Paul v-brake combo, brakes feel better than 
>>> the cane creek ones I had on the noodles.
>>>
>>> Abe, would you mind posting a side photo of your CHG?
>>>
>>> Max, always tinkering in Boston
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 6:01:32 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
>>>
 Excellent...thanks for the report, Abe!

 On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 03:57:58 PM MST, Abe Gardner <
 abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: 


 Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for gravel and 
 chunky pavement; very good on smooth pavement. Slight noise on pavement 
 but 
 only compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) tire smoothness. I’d love to 
 try Hatcher Pass (700x48mm smooth) next but thes G-One Allrounds are super 
 (and cheaper by a small bit vs. Rene Herse tires).

 I’m running them with tubes that have some Stan’s sealant inside - 
 never a flat but currently a slow leak that probably resolved with the 
 sealant since my lunch time ride. 

 Abe


 On Nov 15, 2022, at 2:21 PM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 
 What tires are those, Abe?

 On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 01:17:34 PM MST, Pancake <
 abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: 


 
 

 I put albatross bars on my Charlie, mounted them upside 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Abe Gardner]

Yes, changed stems:Soma Portola with 6cm extension TechnomicNitto Labarross with 10cm extension TechnomicBoth were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of min insertion line. I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to pull on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm of stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. And I wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus doesn’t take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it starts to skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max gear size and chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t cassette). If I was less heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but I’m hoping the wider wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the Charlie is a rocket that pulls my weight off the seat to pedal harder and faster like in the drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in “sit up and beg” mode - very tall to see well in traffic and nice for standing up as I pedal uphills, but relaxed enough to putter around town for as long as I could want. The long arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just perfect and so strong I can’t imagine ever wishing for disc brakes. What a fun and versatile bike! These should sell out every time, it’s the best Riv I’ve been on (which includes: Cheviot, Sam Hillborne, Saluki, Homer, Gus, Suzie, Rosco Baby). Fast like Homer, strong and versatile like Sam, better braking than any other, swoopy goodness. AbeOn Nov 16, 2022, at 1:51 PM, maxcr  wrote:Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length going from the Soma Portola to the Albatross?MaxOn Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:41:21 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside down) on my Charlie, but I think I need to tweak them. I haven't installed my grips yet, but after a quick 20m ride my hands/wrists made it clear that the angle wasn't working.Here is a photo of the process, I'll post the new setup once I have the grips finalized.I do like the Paul levers / Paul v-brake combo, brakes feel better than the cane creek ones I had on the noodles.Abe, would you mind posting a side photo of your CHG?Max, always tinkering in BostonOn Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 6:01:32 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
Excellent...thanks for the report, Abe!





On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 03:57:58 PM MST, Abe Gardner  wrote:



Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for gravel and chunky pavement; very good on smooth pavement. Slight noise on pavement but only compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) tire smoothness. I’d love to try Hatcher Pass (700x48mm smooth) next but thes G-One Allrounds are super (and cheaper by a small bit vs. Rene Herse tires).I’m running them with tubes that have some Stan’s sealant inside - never a flat but currently a slow leak that probably resolved with the sealant since my lunch time ride. AbeOn Nov 15, 2022, at 2:21 PM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:
What tires are those, Abe?





On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 01:17:34 PM MST, Pancake  wrote:



I put albatross bars on my Charlie, mounted them upside down and raise the stem way high. This gives me a better grip towards the front of the curves of the bar, but I also put some bar ends at the most forward point, so they give a on the hoods type of position as well. very nice for pulling on and leading down into the wind. Open to suggestions on where to mount the shifters, they feel pretty good mounted towards the center. I’m really enjoying the bar is mounted upside down, it’s just a more comfortable way to hold in the curves. I am on a Nitto Technomic, 10 cm extension stem, this leaves the hand grips about level with the saddle at the maximum insertion point.V- brakes! Switching to the albatross bars, with cheap, avid levers, and nice DRX brake arms improoves the braking dramatically. It’s really night and day compared to calipers or the short arm v-brakes I was using before. The stopping power both better modulated and much stronger. But the weird, 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[maxcr]

Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length going from the Soma 
Portola to the Albatross?
Max

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:41:21 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

> I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside down) on my Charlie, 
> but I think I need to tweak them. I haven't installed my grips yet, but 
> after a quick 20m ride my hands/wrists made it clear that the angle wasn't 
> working.
>
> Here is a photo of the process, I'll post the new setup once I have the 
> grips finalized.
>
> [image: IMG_8661 (1).jpeg]
>
> I do like the Paul levers / Paul v-brake combo, brakes feel better than 
> the cane creek ones I had on the noodles.
>
> Abe, would you mind posting a side photo of your CHG?
>
> Max, always tinkering in Boston
>
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 6:01:32 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
>
>> Excellent...thanks for the report, Abe!
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 03:57:58 PM MST, Abe Gardner <
>> abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for gravel and chunky 
>> pavement; very good on smooth pavement. Slight noise on pavement but only 
>> compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) tire smoothness. I’d love to try 
>> Hatcher Pass (700x48mm smooth) next but thes G-One Allrounds are super (and 
>> cheaper by a small bit vs. Rene Herse tires).
>>
>> I’m running them with tubes that have some Stan’s sealant inside - never 
>> a flat but currently a slow leak that probably resolved with the sealant 
>> since my lunch time ride. 
>>
>> Abe
>>
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2022, at 2:21 PM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> What tires are those, Abe?
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 01:17:34 PM MST, Pancake <
>> abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>> I put albatross bars on my Charlie, mounted them upside down and raise 
>> the stem way high. This gives me a better grip towards the front of the 
>> curves of the bar, but I also put some bar ends at the most forward point, 
>> so they give a on the hoods type of position as well. very nice for pulling 
>> on and leading down into the wind. Open to suggestions on where to mount 
>> the shifters, they feel pretty good mounted towards the center. I’m really 
>> enjoying the bar is mounted upside down, it’s just a more comfortable way 
>> to hold in the curves. I am on a Nitto Technomic, 10 cm extension stem, 
>> this leaves the hand grips about level with the saddle at the maximum 
>> insertion point.
>>
>> V- brakes! Switching to the albatross bars, with cheap, avid levers, and 
>> nice DRX brake arms improoves the braking dramatically. It’s really night 
>> and day compared to calipers or the short arm v-brakes I was using before. 
>> The stopping power both better modulated and much stronger. But the weird, 
>> unnecessarily, strong mechanical advantage of a short arm (85mm) V- brakes 
>> is gone. Long arm v-brakes are the only way to go. 
>>
>> I’m sure I’ll shift the cockpit around but so far super happy with the 
>> change (from Soma Portola drop bars and TRP RRL brake levers  with lite pro 
>> short arm v brakes).
>>
>>
>> Abe
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8c3d6668-0226-42a1-ac48-bcd0562c3414n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1957388405.558885.1668550842559%40mail.yahoo.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>>
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[maxcr]

I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside down) on my Charlie, 
but I think I need to tweak them. I haven't installed my grips yet, but 
after a quick 20m ride my hands/wrists made it clear that the angle wasn't 
working.

Here is a photo of the process, I'll post the new setup once I have the 
grips finalized.

[image: IMG_8661 (1).jpeg]

I do like the Paul levers / Paul v-brake combo, brakes feel better than the 
cane creek ones I had on the noodles.

Abe, would you mind posting a side photo of your CHG?

Max, always tinkering in Boston

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 6:01:32 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:

> Excellent...thanks for the report, Abe!
>
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 03:57:58 PM MST, Abe Gardner <
> abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for gravel and chunky 
> pavement; very good on smooth pavement. Slight noise on pavement but only 
> compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) tire smoothness. I’d love to try 
> Hatcher Pass (700x48mm smooth) next but thes G-One Allrounds are super (and 
> cheaper by a small bit vs. Rene Herse tires).
>
> I’m running them with tubes that have some Stan’s sealant inside - never a 
> flat but currently a slow leak that probably resolved with the sealant 
> since my lunch time ride. 
>
> Abe
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2022, at 2:21 PM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> 
> What tires are those, Abe?
>
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 01:17:34 PM MST, Pancake <
> abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> 
> 
>
> I put albatross bars on my Charlie, mounted them upside down and raise the 
> stem way high. This gives me a better grip towards the front of the curves 
> of the bar, but I also put some bar ends at the most forward point, so they 
> give a on the hoods type of position as well. very nice for pulling on and 
> leading down into the wind. Open to suggestions on where to mount the 
> shifters, they feel pretty good mounted towards the center. I’m really 
> enjoying the bar is mounted upside down, it’s just a more comfortable way 
> to hold in the curves. I am on a Nitto Technomic, 10 cm extension stem, 
> this leaves the hand grips about level with the saddle at the maximum 
> insertion point.
>
> V- brakes! Switching to the albatross bars, with cheap, avid levers, and 
> nice DRX brake arms improoves the braking dramatically. It’s really night 
> and day compared to calipers or the short arm v-brakes I was using before. 
> The stopping power both better modulated and much stronger. But the weird, 
> unnecessarily, strong mechanical advantage of a short arm (85mm) V- brakes 
> is gone. Long arm v-brakes are the only way to go. 
>
> I’m sure I’ll shift the cockpit around but so far super happy with the 
> change (from Soma Portola drop bars and TRP RRL brake levers  with lite pro 
> short arm v brakes).
>
>
> Abe
>
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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

['Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch]

 Excellent...thanks for the report, Abe!

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 03:57:58 PM MST, Abe Gardner 
 wrote:  
 
 Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for gravel and chunky 
pavement; very good on smooth pavement. Slight noise on pavement but only 
compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) tire smoothness. I’d love to try Hatcher 
Pass (700x48mm smooth) next but thes G-One Allrounds are super (and cheaper by 
a small bit vs. Rene Herse tires).
I’m running them with tubes that have some Stan’s sealant inside - never a flat 
but currently a slow leak that probably resolved with the sealant since my 
lunch time ride. 
Abe


On Nov 15, 2022, at 2:21 PM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch 
 wrote:



 What tires are those, Abe?

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 01:17:34 PM MST, Pancake 
 wrote:  
 
 

I put albatross bars on my Charlie, mounted them upside down and raise the stem 
way high. This gives me a better grip towards the front of the curves of the 
bar, but I also put some bar ends at the most forward point, so they give a on 
the hoods type of position as well. very nice for pulling on and leading down 
into the wind. Open to suggestions on where to mount the shifters, they feel 
pretty good mounted towards the center. I’m really enjoying the bar is mounted 
upside down, it’s just a more comfortable way to hold in the curves. I am on a 
Nitto Technomic, 10 cm extension stem, this leaves the hand grips about level 
with the saddle at the maximum insertion point.
V- brakes! Switching to the albatross bars, with cheap, avid levers, and nice 
DRX brake arms improoves the braking dramatically. It’s really night and day 
compared to calipers or the short arm v-brakes I was using before. The stopping 
power both better modulated and much stronger. But the weird, unnecessarily, 
strong mechanical advantage of a short arm (85mm) V- brakes is gone. Long arm 
v-brakes are the only way to go. 
I’m sure I’ll shift the cockpit around but so far super happy with the change 
(from Soma Portola drop bars and TRP RRL brake levers  with lite pro short arm 
v brakes).

Abe

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Abe Gardner]

Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for gravel and chunky pavement; very good on smooth pavement. Slight noise on pavement but only compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) tire smoothness. I’d love to try Hatcher Pass (700x48mm smooth) next but thes G-One Allrounds are super (and cheaper by a small bit vs. Rene Herse tires).I’m running them with tubes that have some Stan’s sealant inside - never a flat but currently a slow leak that probably resolved with the sealant since my lunch time ride. AbeOn Nov 15, 2022, at 2:21 PM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:
What tires are those, Abe?





On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 01:17:34 PM MST, Pancake  wrote:



I put albatross bars on my Charlie, mounted them upside down and raise the stem way high. This gives me a better grip towards the front of the curves of the bar, but I also put some bar ends at the most forward point, so they give a on the hoods type of position as well. very nice for pulling on and leading down into the wind. Open to suggestions on where to mount the shifters, they feel pretty good mounted towards the center. I’m really enjoying the bar is mounted upside down, it’s just a more comfortable way to hold in the curves. I am on a Nitto Technomic, 10 cm extension stem, this leaves the hand grips about level with the saddle at the maximum insertion point.V- brakes! Switching to the albatross bars, with cheap, avid levers, and nice DRX brake arms improoves the braking dramatically. It’s really night and day compared to calipers or the short arm v-brakes I was using before. The stopping power both better modulated and much stronger. But the weird, unnecessarily, strong mechanical advantage of a short arm (85mm) V- brakes is gone. Long arm v-brakes are the only way to go. I’m sure I’ll shift the cockpit around but so far super happy with the change (from Soma Portola drop bars and TRP RRL brake levers  with lite pro short arm v brakes).Abe



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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Abe Gardner]

*Tires: *I've got a few hundred miles on my protocharlie ("He may ride
forever 'neath the streets of Boston He's the man who never returned, Poor
Charlie!") and, dare I tempt the flat tire deities, no flats so far. Riding
Schwalbe G-one Allround 700x50mm. Though I do run tubeless sealant in the
tubes. I'd love to try it with 700C x 48 Hatcher Pass tires one day, but
loads of miles/rubber left on the G-one's for now.
*Gravel*: Been into a fair bit of gravel but nothing anyone would call
single track. Not much flex, probably the same as my 56cm double top tube
Sam Hillborne. I'm closer to 250 pounds and still, not flex worries.
Certainly more flexy than my Cheviot, much less flexy than the rosco baby
bike though (with it's unusual geometry it's quite flexy, especially with a
child seat on the back).
*Pedal strikes*: I have had a few pedal scrapes as I lean into sharp, low
speed turns on pavement. Nearly identical to my Sam in this regard.
*Bars*: I'm also on the fence about swapping from Soma Portola (wide,
flared drop bars) to Albatross bars (probably would flip them upside down
to feel more like Albastash bars, just better for my wrists). I'd like to
run regular V-brakes as the short arm v-brakes (85mm) need a bit too fine
an adjustment to keep from rubbing the rims without getting a squishy feel
in the brake levers. That said, those short v-brakes are REALLY strong
(loads of mechanical advantage). Very interested to switch to DRX v-brakes
though. All I need is the time to ride and wrench plus ...
Really like to see you bars up so high - the drops are about level with the
saddle, which seems like the sweet spot to me.

Great pics!
Abe


On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 2:13 PM maxcr  wrote:

> Here are a few pics of a quick ride down to the Boston Harbor on my Gallop
> yesterday (Charlie H Gallop decals, Rosco Bubbe headbadge with canti studs).
>
> I still plan to do a couple of adjustments on it. Not sure if I'll switch
> handlebars to Albatross or just re-wrap my handlebars, I did a terrible job
> the first time around. All I can say is that I'm really digging this bike.
>
> Also, not sure if the other proto owners have had similar issues, but I
> went for a 13m ride the other day and found myself riding in rougher
> terrain than expected... the Gallop handled it very well but two things
> happened: I hit my pedal on rocks twice (must be that this is meant to be a
> road bike with a lower bb?) and I felt the frame flexing more than I
> expected (I had the big saddlebag but overall weight including the rider
> was under 200lb).
>
> Oh and I got home with low pressure on my rear tire, then woke up to a
> flat - lucky I made it home! Maybe I need to stick to pavement on this one?
> Or maybe the Shikoros (42) aren't as strong as I thought. I have some Cavas
> that I could try on instead but I thought those would be even more prone to
> flats. Thoughts?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:57:45 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Hah, thanks Brendon, I hope it doesn't age this quickly from here on
>> out!  It has just about 900 km on it, usually my bikes still look pretty
>> new at that mileage but this one was definitely decorated for daily use and
>> also highly personalized as theft deterrent. Originally my plan was to make
>> it blend into the background, but clearly went a different route!
>>
>> On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 22:30:34 UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:
>>
>>> I love that you have only had this bike for ~3 months and it already
>>> looks like it has *lived*.
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jason Fuller]

Hah, thanks Brendon, I hope it doesn't age this quickly from here on out!  
It has just about 900 km on it, usually my bikes still look pretty new at 
that mileage but this one was definitely decorated for daily use and also 
highly personalized as theft deterrent. Originally my plan was to make it 
blend into the background, but clearly went a different route! 

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 22:30:34 UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:

> I love that you have only had this bike for ~3 months and it already looks 
> like it has *lived*.
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[brendonoid]

I love that you have only had this bike for ~3 months and it already looks 
like it has *lived*.

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jason Fuller]

Hey thanks for the kind words to those who offered them!

Abe, maybe some of those old school "brake booster" brackets would do the 
trick!  It could be the relatively long and thin seat stays that are 
twisting more than the housing compression that I initially blamed? 

Max, I found that angling the bars down further than I initially thought 
was 'correct' did the trick for wrist angle for me, maybe it would for you 
also if you haven't tried this already

On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 07:58:58 UTC-7 maxcr wrote:

> Thanks for the post Jason, loved reading about your experience! 
>
> I'm another lucky owner of a demo Gallop (61.5cm) with canti studs. I'm 
> impatiently waiting for it to get delivered, it's taken forever to ship, 
> but it's supposed to get here later this week - I'm sure the wait will be 
> worth it and I hope to turn it into my main commuter and around town bike.
>
> My pbh is 90.5 (ish) but I'm 5'11" with long legs & shorter torso - I'm 
> very curious to see if the ETT will work for me with drop bars of I will 
> need to switch over to swept back bars... I have an albatross cockpit ready 
> to go for it just in case but I've never loved the wrist angle it puts me 
> on. This will be my first bike with a swoop tube and I'm very excited about 
> going in that direction but I'm not sure about fit.
>
> Also wondering about the brakes, mine comes with CX50 but I have a set of 
> Paul Motolites and some Cane Creek drop bar levers for V-Brakes that I 
> could use if I decide to stick with the drop bars... the alternative would 
> be to take the Paul cantis from the Atlantis and move them over to the 
> incoming Gallop (leaving the Motolites for the Atlantis which I plan to 
> turn into more of a hilly bike) - first world problems for sure.
>
> I'd love to hear your thoughts on which brakes/levers would you pair with 
> which bike if it were you?
>
> Max
>
> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 9:16:19 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks as always for a thoughtful writeup and great pictures, Jason!
>>
>> I probably will never buy a Gallop but I totally agree about the canti 
>> studs. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 8:35:22 AM UTC-4 Takashi wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the review Jason.
>>> Now that I read the review I'm interested in Charlie, though I can't 
>>> justify buying another bike.
>>>
>>> Takashi
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[maxcr]

Thanks for the post Jason, loved reading about your experience! 

I'm another lucky owner of a demo Gallop (61.5cm) with canti studs. I'm 
impatiently waiting for it to get delivered, it's taken forever to ship, 
but it's supposed to get here later this week - I'm sure the wait will be 
worth it and I hope to turn it into my main commuter and around town bike.

My pbh is 90.5 (ish) but I'm 5'11" with long legs & shorter torso - I'm 
very curious to see if the ETT will work for me with drop bars of I will 
need to switch over to swept back bars... I have an albatross cockpit ready 
to go for it just in case but I've never loved the wrist angle it puts me 
on. This will be my first bike with a swoop tube and I'm very excited about 
going in that direction but I'm not sure about fit.

Also wondering about the brakes, mine comes with CX50 but I have a set of 
Paul Motolites and some Cane Creek drop bar levers for V-Brakes that I 
could use if I decide to stick with the drop bars... the alternative would 
be to take the Paul cantis from the Atlantis and move them over to the 
incoming Gallop (leaving the Motolites for the Atlantis which I plan to 
turn into more of a hilly bike) - first world problems for sure.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on which brakes/levers would you pair with 
which bike if it were you?

Max

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 9:16:19 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks as always for a thoughtful writeup and great pictures, Jason!
>
> I probably will never buy a Gallop but I totally agree about the canti 
> studs. 
>
> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 8:35:22 AM UTC-4 Takashi wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the review Jason.
>> Now that I read the review I'm interested in Charlie, though I can't 
>> justify buying another bike.
>>
>> Takashi
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Eric Marth]

Thanks as always for a thoughtful writeup and great pictures, Jason!

I probably will never buy a Gallop but I totally agree about the canti 
studs. 

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 8:35:22 AM UTC-4 Takashi wrote:

> Thank you for the review Jason.
> Now that I read the review I'm interested in Charlie, though I can't 
> justify buying another bike.
>
> Takashi
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Takashi]

Thank you for the review Jason.
Now that I read the review I'm interested in Charlie, though I can't 
justify buying another bike.

Takashi

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

I have mini-V brakes on mine and don't feel the brakes are spongy at all. 
It felt much more solid than my bikes with canti brakes.  I can't imagine 
that long reach side pulls feel more solid than ANY canti or V brake setup. 

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 12:35:00 PM UTC-4 Pancake wrote:

> Jason, I bet the long arm v-brakes are a big improvement; Paul components 
> only maximizing that difference, but I'm sure the T610 or Alivio v-brake 
> arms would work a charm with any linear / long pull levers. 
> I used Jagwire "pro compressionless" housing which gives that firm feeling 
> on my other bikes, but not on the charles with the short pull mini-v's.
>
> If I find myself with more time to wrench than to ride I'll swap on the 
> Albatross bars with some standard v-brakes / levers and let everyone know; 
> but I'm sure it will be nearly as nice as your Paul setup as far as firm 
> stopping and feel. 
>
> As is, I have VERY firm stopping power but the feel is ... squishy at the 
> lever. But more than enough power at the brakes to make the tires skid and 
> quickly. 
>
> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 09:20:13 UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I don't find my rear V-brake to be all that spongy to be honest. Maybe 
>> it's the Paul lever and arms - but more likely it's just about good brake 
>> housing. Full length housing is always squishier, of course, but I don't 
>> see how putting caliper brakes on solves the problem - just reducing 
>> braking power to reduce housing compression?? Not to mention adding MORE 
>> overall flex through flexier brake arms.. 
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 9:13 AM Eric Daume  wrote:
>>
>>> Mini V brakes seem like a lost middle ground IMO. Either use V brakes 
>>> with long pull levers, or cantis with short pull levers. 
>>>
>>> Either one of these option would be far better than long reach caliper 
>>> brakes, which are too flexy for good braking.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022, Pancake  wrote:
>>>
>> I want canti posts because I want v-brakes on this bike. The reference in 
 a prior email or blagh or somewhere by Riv said something like, 'they left 
 to spongy or squishy or something' ... and they're right. At least on my 
 57cm prototype. 

 I tried the Shimano BR-R353 with 90mm long arms ... way too soft a feel 
 at the brake levers (using TRP RRL brakes). Needed to setup the pads less 
 than 2mm from the rim on each side which leaves no room for less than true 
 rims. And the brake levers pull all the way to the handlebar ... though 
 they brake plenty hard and strong way before that point. The braking is 
 nearly too easy (tremendous mechanical advantage) but feels easy or soft 
 as 
 you pull. 

 Switching to an 84mm arm Tektro brake helped but not dramatically, just 
 noticeably. 

 Switching to 82mm Litepro arms helped enough that I'll stay with this 
 setup, but it's still a bit soft. And there not much of any room left for 
 the brake cable to clear the 50mm knobbie tires I have on now (Schwalbe 
 G-One Allround). 

 I'm used to v-brakes feeling pretty solid as you pull the lever, that's 
 how my Rosco baby bike and nearly every other v-braked bike I've owned 
 operated. Solid pressure at the fingers as you pull and hit a point where 
 you can't pull more (and the brake pads were engaged fully long before 
 that 
 pull point regardless). 

 I bet a 75mm brake arm v-brake and a 38mm tire would work with the 
 pressure and pull feel I expect, but that's not an option as far as I know 
 (or want).

 *Ultimately I'll probably do what Jason did and switch to upright bars 
 and linear pull long arm v-brakes. Right now I have swapped some levers 
 and 
 a stem on my Albatross bars (mounted upside down so they drop a bit like 
 the Albastash (which the protocharlie arrived with) and I expect that 
 (plus 
 some MX70 brake arms) would leave me with the expected brake feel. I'm on 
 the lookout for 60mm wide, 25.4mm clamp diameter Tosco bars to try instead 
 *(I 
 have 55cm Toscos but they're happy on the Cheviot for now). 

 Perhaps it's just my setup or bike, but the brake posts seem to be 
 offset by about 2mm (requiring a spacer switch on the pads to make up the 
 difference) which makes the narrow clearance of the pads on short pull 
 v-brake arms even more cumbersome.

 Love the Charlie ride feel though - best of the Cheviot (probably from 
 the long stays and low step over) and the Sam (accelerates even quicker, 
 just feels fast in a way the Cheviot doesn't even though my chev has 42mm 
 smooth basketball tires and the Charles has 50mm knobbies). 

 Very happy with the Charles, but I suspect absent some meaningful 
 changes (that I suspect would make it less road-ish) the canti arms as on 
 the prototypes were not quite right. If this were meant 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Pancake]

Jason, I bet the long arm v-brakes are a big improvement; Paul components 
only maximizing that difference, but I'm sure the T610 or Alivio v-brake 
arms would work a charm with any linear / long pull levers. 
I used Jagwire "pro compressionless" housing which gives that firm feeling 
on my other bikes, but not on the charles with the short pull mini-v's.

If I find myself with more time to wrench than to ride I'll swap on the 
Albatross bars with some standard v-brakes / levers and let everyone know; 
but I'm sure it will be nearly as nice as your Paul setup as far as firm 
stopping and feel. 

As is, I have VERY firm stopping power but the feel is ... squishy at the 
lever. But more than enough power at the brakes to make the tires skid and 
quickly. 

On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 09:20:13 UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I don't find my rear V-brake to be all that spongy to be honest. Maybe 
> it's the Paul lever and arms - but more likely it's just about good brake 
> housing. Full length housing is always squishier, of course, but I don't 
> see how putting caliper brakes on solves the problem - just reducing 
> braking power to reduce housing compression?? Not to mention adding MORE 
> overall flex through flexier brake arms.. 
>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 9:13 AM Eric Daume  wrote:
>
>> Mini V brakes seem like a lost middle ground IMO. Either use V brakes 
>> with long pull levers, or cantis with short pull levers. 
>>
>> Either one of these option would be far better than long reach caliper 
>> brakes, which are too flexy for good braking.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022, Pancake  wrote:
>>
> I want canti posts because I want v-brakes on this bike. The reference in 
>>> a prior email or blagh or somewhere by Riv said something like, 'they left 
>>> to spongy or squishy or something' ... and they're right. At least on my 
>>> 57cm prototype. 
>>>
>>> I tried the Shimano BR-R353 with 90mm long arms ... way too soft a feel 
>>> at the brake levers (using TRP RRL brakes). Needed to setup the pads less 
>>> than 2mm from the rim on each side which leaves no room for less than true 
>>> rims. And the brake levers pull all the way to the handlebar ... though 
>>> they brake plenty hard and strong way before that point. The braking is 
>>> nearly too easy (tremendous mechanical advantage) but feels easy or soft as 
>>> you pull. 
>>>
>>> Switching to an 84mm arm Tektro brake helped but not dramatically, just 
>>> noticeably. 
>>>
>>> Switching to 82mm Litepro arms helped enough that I'll stay with this 
>>> setup, but it's still a bit soft. And there not much of any room left for 
>>> the brake cable to clear the 50mm knobbie tires I have on now (Schwalbe 
>>> G-One Allround). 
>>>
>>> I'm used to v-brakes feeling pretty solid as you pull the lever, that's 
>>> how my Rosco baby bike and nearly every other v-braked bike I've owned 
>>> operated. Solid pressure at the fingers as you pull and hit a point where 
>>> you can't pull more (and the brake pads were engaged fully long before that 
>>> pull point regardless). 
>>>
>>> I bet a 75mm brake arm v-brake and a 38mm tire would work with the 
>>> pressure and pull feel I expect, but that's not an option as far as I know 
>>> (or want).
>>>
>>> *Ultimately I'll probably do what Jason did and switch to upright bars 
>>> and linear pull long arm v-brakes. Right now I have swapped some levers and 
>>> a stem on my Albatross bars (mounted upside down so they drop a bit like 
>>> the Albastash (which the protocharlie arrived with) and I expect that (plus 
>>> some MX70 brake arms) would leave me with the expected brake feel. I'm on 
>>> the lookout for 60mm wide, 25.4mm clamp diameter Tosco bars to try instead 
>>> *(I 
>>> have 55cm Toscos but they're happy on the Cheviot for now). 
>>>
>>> Perhaps it's just my setup or bike, but the brake posts seem to be 
>>> offset by about 2mm (requiring a spacer switch on the pads to make up the 
>>> difference) which makes the narrow clearance of the pads on short pull 
>>> v-brake arms even more cumbersome.
>>>
>>> Love the Charlie ride feel though - best of the Cheviot (probably from 
>>> the long stays and low step over) and the Sam (accelerates even quicker, 
>>> just feels fast in a way the Cheviot doesn't even though my chev has 42mm 
>>> smooth basketball tires and the Charles has 50mm knobbies). 
>>>
>>> Very happy with the Charles, but I suspect absent some meaningful 
>>> changes (that I suspect would make it less road-ish) the canti arms as on 
>>> the prototypes were not quite right. If this were meant for upright bars 
>>> and standard linear pull v-brakes I bet they'd have had an easy decision to 
>>> stick with canti-posts, but for a bike meant for drop bars I can see why 
>>> they went the other way.  
>>> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 04:10:50 UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the review I enjoyed it! I think you are right about the 
 canti posts but I suspect it is much too late to change it.

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jason Fuller]

I don't find my rear V-brake to be all that spongy to be honest. Maybe it's
the Paul lever and arms - but more likely it's just about good brake
housing. Full length housing is always squishier, of course, but I don't
see how putting caliper brakes on solves the problem - just reducing
braking power to reduce housing compression?? Not to mention adding MORE
overall flex through flexier brake arms..


On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 9:13 AM Eric Daume  wrote:

> Mini V brakes seem like a lost middle ground IMO. Either use V brakes with
> long pull levers, or cantis with short pull levers.
>
> Either one of these option would be far better than long reach caliper
> brakes, which are too flexy for good braking.
>
> Eric
>
> On Monday, May 2, 2022, Pancake  wrote:
>
>> I want canti posts because I want v-brakes on this bike. The reference in
>> a prior email or blagh or somewhere by Riv said something like, 'they left
>> to spongy or squishy or something' ... and they're right. At least on my
>> 57cm prototype.
>>
>> I tried the Shimano BR-R353 with 90mm long arms ... way too soft a feel
>> at the brake levers (using TRP RRL brakes). Needed to setup the pads less
>> than 2mm from the rim on each side which leaves no room for less than true
>> rims. And the brake levers pull all the way to the handlebar ... though
>> they brake plenty hard and strong way before that point. The braking is
>> nearly too easy (tremendous mechanical advantage) but feels easy or soft as
>> you pull.
>>
>> Switching to an 84mm arm Tektro brake helped but not dramatically, just
>> noticeably.
>>
>> Switching to 82mm Litepro arms helped enough that I'll stay with this
>> setup, but it's still a bit soft. And there not much of any room left for
>> the brake cable to clear the 50mm knobbie tires I have on now (Schwalbe
>> G-One Allround).
>>
>> I'm used to v-brakes feeling pretty solid as you pull the lever, that's
>> how my Rosco baby bike and nearly every other v-braked bike I've owned
>> operated. Solid pressure at the fingers as you pull and hit a point where
>> you can't pull more (and the brake pads were engaged fully long before that
>> pull point regardless).
>>
>> I bet a 75mm brake arm v-brake and a 38mm tire would work with the
>> pressure and pull feel I expect, but that's not an option as far as I know
>> (or want).
>>
>> *Ultimately I'll probably do what Jason did and switch to upright bars
>> and linear pull long arm v-brakes. Right now I have swapped some levers and
>> a stem on my Albatross bars (mounted upside down so they drop a bit like
>> the Albastash (which the protocharlie arrived with) and I expect that (plus
>> some MX70 brake arms) would leave me with the expected brake feel. I'm on
>> the lookout for 60mm wide, 25.4mm clamp diameter Tosco bars to try instead 
>> *(I
>> have 55cm Toscos but they're happy on the Cheviot for now).
>>
>> Perhaps it's just my setup or bike, but the brake posts seem to be offset
>> by about 2mm (requiring a spacer switch on the pads to make up the
>> difference) which makes the narrow clearance of the pads on short pull
>> v-brake arms even more cumbersome.
>>
>> Love the Charlie ride feel though - best of the Cheviot (probably from
>> the long stays and low step over) and the Sam (accelerates even quicker,
>> just feels fast in a way the Cheviot doesn't even though my chev has 42mm
>> smooth basketball tires and the Charles has 50mm knobbies).
>>
>> Very happy with the Charles, but I suspect absent some meaningful changes
>> (that I suspect would make it less road-ish) the canti arms as on the
>> prototypes were not quite right. If this were meant for upright bars and
>> standard linear pull v-brakes I bet they'd have had an easy decision to
>> stick with canti-posts, but for a bike meant for drop bars I can see why
>> they went the other way.
>> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 04:10:50 UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the review I enjoyed it! I think you are right about the
>>> canti posts but I suspect it is much too late to change it.
>>>
>>> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 12:24:02 UTC+8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 I started a review of mine, to pay back the privilege of owning one
 already!  I haven't so much as proofread it, let alone edit it, so bear
 that in mind


 https://www.jasonmytail.com/75-day-700km-review-rivendell-charlie-h-gallop/

 On Saturday, 12 March 2022 at 17:45:11 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:

>
> I love both of these builds. I can imagine the Albatross work well. I
> enjoyed running Billie bars on mine.
> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 8:39:14 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Very nice Abe! I can believe it on the climbing - the long rear end
>> makes a world of a difference for climbing, I find!
>>
>> Not much has changed on mine since I last posted it - the Albatross
>> bars feel perfect on this bike for me, even though it's suited to drops 
>> or
>> moustache bars. Granted, I'm using it a 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Eric Daume]

Mini V brakes seem like a lost middle ground IMO. Either use V brakes with
long pull levers, or cantis with short pull levers.

Either one of these option would be far better than long reach caliper
brakes, which are too flexy for good braking.

Eric

On Monday, May 2, 2022, Pancake  wrote:

> I want canti posts because I want v-brakes on this bike. The reference in
> a prior email or blagh or somewhere by Riv said something like, 'they left
> to spongy or squishy or something' ... and they're right. At least on my
> 57cm prototype.
>
> I tried the Shimano BR-R353 with 90mm long arms ... way too soft a feel at
> the brake levers (using TRP RRL brakes). Needed to setup the pads less than
> 2mm from the rim on each side which leaves no room for less than true rims.
> And the brake levers pull all the way to the handlebar ... though they
> brake plenty hard and strong way before that point. The braking is nearly
> too easy (tremendous mechanical advantage) but feels easy or soft as you
> pull.
>
> Switching to an 84mm arm Tektro brake helped but not dramatically, just
> noticeably.
>
> Switching to 82mm Litepro arms helped enough that I'll stay with this
> setup, but it's still a bit soft. And there not much of any room left for
> the brake cable to clear the 50mm knobbie tires I have on now (Schwalbe
> G-One Allround).
>
> I'm used to v-brakes feeling pretty solid as you pull the lever, that's
> how my Rosco baby bike and nearly every other v-braked bike I've owned
> operated. Solid pressure at the fingers as you pull and hit a point where
> you can't pull more (and the brake pads were engaged fully long before that
> pull point regardless).
>
> I bet a 75mm brake arm v-brake and a 38mm tire would work with the
> pressure and pull feel I expect, but that's not an option as far as I know
> (or want).
>
> *Ultimately I'll probably do what Jason did and switch to upright bars and
> linear pull long arm v-brakes. Right now I have swapped some levers and a
> stem on my Albatross bars (mounted upside down so they drop a bit like the
> Albastash (which the protocharlie arrived with) and I expect that (plus
> some MX70 brake arms) would leave me with the expected brake feel. I'm on
> the lookout for 60mm wide, 25.4mm clamp diameter Tosco bars to try instead *(I
> have 55cm Toscos but they're happy on the Cheviot for now).
>
> Perhaps it's just my setup or bike, but the brake posts seem to be offset
> by about 2mm (requiring a spacer switch on the pads to make up the
> difference) which makes the narrow clearance of the pads on short pull
> v-brake arms even more cumbersome.
>
> Love the Charlie ride feel though - best of the Cheviot (probably from the
> long stays and low step over) and the Sam (accelerates even quicker, just
> feels fast in a way the Cheviot doesn't even though my chev has 42mm smooth
> basketball tires and the Charles has 50mm knobbies).
>
> Very happy with the Charles, but I suspect absent some meaningful changes
> (that I suspect would make it less road-ish) the canti arms as on the
> prototypes were not quite right. If this were meant for upright bars and
> standard linear pull v-brakes I bet they'd have had an easy decision to
> stick with canti-posts, but for a bike meant for drop bars I can see why
> they went the other way.
> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 04:10:50 UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the review I enjoyed it! I think you are right about the canti
>> posts but I suspect it is much too late to change it.
>>
>> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 12:24:02 UTC+8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I started a review of mine, to pay back the privilege of owning one
>>> already!  I haven't so much as proofread it, let alone edit it, so bear
>>> that in mind
>>>
>>> https://www.jasonmytail.com/75-day-700km-review-rivendell-
>>> charlie-h-gallop/
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 12 March 2022 at 17:45:11 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>

 I love both of these builds. I can imagine the Albatross work well. I
 enjoyed running Billie bars on mine.
 On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 8:39:14 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Very nice Abe! I can believe it on the climbing - the long rear end
> makes a world of a difference for climbing, I find!
>
> Not much has changed on mine since I last posted it - the Albatross
> bars feel perfect on this bike for me, even though it's suited to drops or
> moustache bars. Granted, I'm using it a bit differently than intended too.
> I've put a used dynamo front wheel on and am embracing the mismatched
> wheels. Here's a pic of it on my way to donate some excess tires and parts
> to the local non-profit bike shop today. No plans to change a thing! I'll
> put some RH Barlow Pass endurance on eventually, but I want to wear these
> out first
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 4:44 PM Pancake  wrote:
>
>> Here's my 57cm prototype Charlie update and build:
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/
>> 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Pancake]

I want canti posts because I want v-brakes on this bike. The reference in a 
prior email or blagh or somewhere by Riv said something like, 'they left to 
spongy or squishy or something' ... and they're right. At least on my 57cm 
prototype. 

I tried the Shimano BR-R353 with 90mm long arms ... way too soft a feel at 
the brake levers (using TRP RRL brakes). Needed to setup the pads less than 
2mm from the rim on each side which leaves no room for less than true rims. 
And the brake levers pull all the way to the handlebar ... though they 
brake plenty hard and strong way before that point. The braking is nearly 
too easy (tremendous mechanical advantage) but feels easy or soft as you 
pull. 

Switching to an 84mm arm Tektro brake helped but not dramatically, just 
noticeably. 

Switching to 82mm Litepro arms helped enough that I'll stay with this 
setup, but it's still a bit soft. And there not much of any room left for 
the brake cable to clear the 50mm knobbie tires I have on now (Schwalbe 
G-One Allround). 

I'm used to v-brakes feeling pretty solid as you pull the lever, that's how 
my Rosco baby bike and nearly every other v-braked bike I've owned 
operated. Solid pressure at the fingers as you pull and hit a point where 
you can't pull more (and the brake pads were engaged fully long before that 
pull point regardless). 

I bet a 75mm brake arm v-brake and a 38mm tire would work with the pressure 
and pull feel I expect, but that's not an option as far as I know (or want).

*Ultimately I'll probably do what Jason did and switch to upright bars and 
linear pull long arm v-brakes. Right now I have swapped some levers and a 
stem on my Albatross bars (mounted upside down so they drop a bit like the 
Albastash (which the protocharlie arrived with) and I expect that (plus 
some MX70 brake arms) would leave me with the expected brake feel. I'm on 
the lookout for 60mm wide, 25.4mm clamp diameter Tosco bars to try instead *(I 
have 55cm Toscos but they're happy on the Cheviot for now). 

Perhaps it's just my setup or bike, but the brake posts seem to be offset 
by about 2mm (requiring a spacer switch on the pads to make up the 
difference) which makes the narrow clearance of the pads on short pull 
v-brake arms even more cumbersome.

Love the Charlie ride feel though - best of the Cheviot (probably from the 
long stays and low step over) and the Sam (accelerates even quicker, just 
feels fast in a way the Cheviot doesn't even though my chev has 42mm smooth 
basketball tires and the Charles has 50mm knobbies). 

Very happy with the Charles, but I suspect absent some meaningful changes 
(that I suspect would make it less road-ish) the canti arms as on the 
prototypes were not quite right. If this were meant for upright bars and 
standard linear pull v-brakes I bet they'd have had an easy decision to 
stick with canti-posts, but for a bike meant for drop bars I can see why 
they went the other way.  
On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 04:10:50 UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:

> Thanks for the review I enjoyed it! I think you are right about the canti 
> posts but I suspect it is much too late to change it.
>
> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 12:24:02 UTC+8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I started a review of mine, to pay back the privilege of owning one 
>> already!  I haven't so much as proofread it, let alone edit it, so bear 
>> that in mind 
>>
>>
>> https://www.jasonmytail.com/75-day-700km-review-rivendell-charlie-h-gallop/
>>
>> On Saturday, 12 March 2022 at 17:45:11 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I love both of these builds. I can imagine the Albatross work well. I 
>>> enjoyed running Billie bars on mine.
>>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 8:39:14 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Very nice Abe! I can believe it on the climbing - the long rear end 
 makes a world of a difference for climbing, I find! 

 Not much has changed on mine since I last posted it - the Albatross 
 bars feel perfect on this bike for me, even though it's suited to drops or 
 moustache bars. Granted, I'm using it a bit differently than intended too. 
 I've put a used dynamo front wheel on and am embracing the mismatched 
 wheels. Here's a pic of it on my way to donate some excess tires and parts 
 to the local non-profit bike shop today. No plans to change a thing! I'll 
 put some RH Barlow Pass endurance on eventually, but I want to wear these 
 out first 

 On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 4:44 PM Pancake  wrote:

> Here's my 57cm prototype Charlie update and build:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/DUpFlP27OE4/m/HZb6bU5XBAAJ
> [image: IMG_3522.jpg][image: IMG_3550.jpg][image: IMG_3551.jpg][image: 
> IMG_3556.jpg]
> More pics here:  https://imgur.com/a/RiI8NN4
>
> My friend caught this 57cm Charlie prototype for me a few weeks ago - 
> my ideal Riv since I want v-brakes (that my Sam and Cheviot lack). Sadly, 
> this will end up replacing my Sam, but 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[brendonoid]

Thanks for the review I enjoyed it! I think you are right about the canti 
posts but I suspect it is much too late to change it.

On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 12:24:02 UTC+8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I started a review of mine, to pay back the privilege of owning one 
> already!  I haven't so much as proofread it, let alone edit it, so bear 
> that in mind 
>
> https://www.jasonmytail.com/75-day-700km-review-rivendell-charlie-h-gallop/
>
> On Saturday, 12 March 2022 at 17:45:11 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>>
>> I love both of these builds. I can imagine the Albatross work well. I 
>> enjoyed running Billie bars on mine.
>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 8:39:14 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Very nice Abe! I can believe it on the climbing - the long rear end 
>>> makes a world of a difference for climbing, I find! 
>>>
>>> Not much has changed on mine since I last posted it - the Albatross bars 
>>> feel perfect on this bike for me, even though it's suited to drops or 
>>> moustache bars. Granted, I'm using it a bit differently than intended too. 
>>> I've put a used dynamo front wheel on and am embracing the mismatched 
>>> wheels. Here's a pic of it on my way to donate some excess tires and parts 
>>> to the local non-profit bike shop today. No plans to change a thing! I'll 
>>> put some RH Barlow Pass endurance on eventually, but I want to wear these 
>>> out first 
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 4:44 PM Pancake  wrote:
>>>
 Here's my 57cm prototype Charlie update and build:

 https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/DUpFlP27OE4/m/HZb6bU5XBAAJ
 [image: IMG_3522.jpg][image: IMG_3550.jpg][image: IMG_3551.jpg][image: 
 IMG_3556.jpg]
 More pics here:  https://imgur.com/a/RiI8NN4

 My friend caught this 57cm Charlie prototype for me a few weeks ago - 
 my ideal Riv since I want v-brakes (that my Sam and Cheviot lack). Sadly, 
 this will end up replacing my Sam, but what a replacement! Vs. Sam: No 
 more 
 toe clip overlap, more chainstay length, climbs better (this surprised 
 me), 
 and more comfortable (for me at least). 

 I swapped nearly everything from my Hillborne onto the Charlie (and 
 vice versa):
 Frame - Charlie H Gallop 57cm prototype with canti posts
 Wheelset - VO Voyager rims, DT Swiss Competition (double butted) 
 spokes, SP (Shutter Precision) PV-8 dynamo hub in front, Bitex rear hub, 
 Salsa skewers
 Stem - Nitto technomic 70mm (IIRC)
 Handlebars – Soma Portola (52cm wide at bar ends, 48cm at hoods)
 Brake levers – TRP RRL 
 Brakes - rear CX70 canti, front Shimano BR-R353 (will replace with 
 Tektro 926al which has 85mm arms vs 90mm on the Shimanos ... they work 
 well 
 but the levers don't quite pull enough to feel right with the long arms). 
 Koolstop e-brake pads in front. 
 Handlbar tape - will replace random rainbow stuff with Newbaums some 
 day.
 Seatpost - Nitto S83
 Seat - Brooks Flyer (but may replace with B17s or C19)
 Crankset - Sugino clipper triple 26/36/46 ... will replace with VO 
 46/30 double
 Cassette – Suntour 11-40t 9 speed
 Front derailleur – Riv put on a Blue Line, it is JUST enough range to 
 shift to the tallest chainring, but only just.
 Rear derailer - nexus rapid rise, it doesn't have quite enough spring 
 tension with this setup to keep from skipping under hard pedaling, I'll 
 try 
 the XT rapid rise and hope that works better like it did on the Sam.
 Pedals – Kona Wah Wah - 118mm x 120mm
 Tires – Schwalbe G-One Allround 700 x 50mm
 Lights - IQ-XS in front and Secula in back

 Abe

 On Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 19:57:32 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I had the same issue with the stem but didn't attribute it to being a 
> prototype.  I can't use taller stems at all because they just don't go 
> down 
> deep enough. Is that not the case with standard Riv's?
>
> I used Billie's and really enjoyed it.  It's clear that the frame was 
> built for sweptbacks.
> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:38:28 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Update - put on the Albatross bars. One kind of annoying nuance to 
>> this prototype frame is that they didn't ream the steerer as deep as 
>> they 
>> do for their production bikes, so I can't get the stem quite as low as I 
>> wanted, but it's close enough that it doesn't warrant buying a new stem. 
>> That said, I am actually quite floored by how much the Albatross brought 
>> this bike to life for what I want from it.  I've run these bars on a few 
>> bikes but this is the best they've felt on any bike for me. It's feeling 
>> very right to me now. I know it's meant to be a roadish bike but I'd 
>> sooner 
>> put drops on a Homer or Hillborne; to me this bike suits the Albatross 
>> so 
>> perfectly.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Jason Fuller]

I started a review of mine, to pay back the privilege of owning one 
already!  I haven't so much as proofread it, let alone edit it, so bear 
that in mind 

https://www.jasonmytail.com/75-day-700km-review-rivendell-charlie-h-gallop/

On Saturday, 12 March 2022 at 17:45:11 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:

>
> I love both of these builds. I can imagine the Albatross work well. I 
> enjoyed running Billie bars on mine.
> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 8:39:14 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Very nice Abe! I can believe it on the climbing - the long rear end makes 
>> a world of a difference for climbing, I find! 
>>
>> Not much has changed on mine since I last posted it - the Albatross bars 
>> feel perfect on this bike for me, even though it's suited to drops or 
>> moustache bars. Granted, I'm using it a bit differently than intended too. 
>> I've put a used dynamo front wheel on and am embracing the mismatched 
>> wheels. Here's a pic of it on my way to donate some excess tires and parts 
>> to the local non-profit bike shop today. No plans to change a thing! I'll 
>> put some RH Barlow Pass endurance on eventually, but I want to wear these 
>> out first 
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 4:44 PM Pancake  wrote:
>>
>>> Here's my 57cm prototype Charlie update and build:
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/DUpFlP27OE4/m/HZb6bU5XBAAJ
>>> [image: IMG_3522.jpg][image: IMG_3550.jpg][image: IMG_3551.jpg][image: 
>>> IMG_3556.jpg]
>>> More pics here:  https://imgur.com/a/RiI8NN4
>>>
>>> My friend caught this 57cm Charlie prototype for me a few weeks ago - my 
>>> ideal Riv since I want v-brakes (that my Sam and Cheviot lack). Sadly, this 
>>> will end up replacing my Sam, but what a replacement! Vs. Sam: No more toe 
>>> clip overlap, more chainstay length, climbs better (this surprised me), and 
>>> more comfortable (for me at least). 
>>>
>>> I swapped nearly everything from my Hillborne onto the Charlie (and vice 
>>> versa):
>>> Frame - Charlie H Gallop 57cm prototype with canti posts
>>> Wheelset - VO Voyager rims, DT Swiss Competition (double butted) spokes, 
>>> SP (Shutter Precision) PV-8 dynamo hub in front, Bitex rear hub, Salsa 
>>> skewers
>>> Stem - Nitto technomic 70mm (IIRC)
>>> Handlebars – Soma Portola (52cm wide at bar ends, 48cm at hoods)
>>> Brake levers – TRP RRL 
>>> Brakes - rear CX70 canti, front Shimano BR-R353 (will replace with 
>>> Tektro 926al which has 85mm arms vs 90mm on the Shimanos ... they work well 
>>> but the levers don't quite pull enough to feel right with the long arms). 
>>> Koolstop e-brake pads in front. 
>>> Handlbar tape - will replace random rainbow stuff with Newbaums some day.
>>> Seatpost - Nitto S83
>>> Seat - Brooks Flyer (but may replace with B17s or C19)
>>> Crankset - Sugino clipper triple 26/36/46 ... will replace with VO 46/30 
>>> double
>>> Cassette – Suntour 11-40t 9 speed
>>> Front derailleur – Riv put on a Blue Line, it is JUST enough range to 
>>> shift to the tallest chainring, but only just.
>>> Rear derailer - nexus rapid rise, it doesn't have quite enough spring 
>>> tension with this setup to keep from skipping under hard pedaling, I'll try 
>>> the XT rapid rise and hope that works better like it did on the Sam.
>>> Pedals – Kona Wah Wah - 118mm x 120mm
>>> Tires – Schwalbe G-One Allround 700 x 50mm
>>> Lights - IQ-XS in front and Secula in back
>>>
>>> Abe
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 19:57:32 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 I had the same issue with the stem but didn't attribute it to being a 
 prototype.  I can't use taller stems at all because they just don't go 
 down 
 deep enough. Is that not the case with standard Riv's?

 I used Billie's and really enjoyed it.  It's clear that the frame was 
 built for sweptbacks.
 On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:38:28 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Update - put on the Albatross bars. One kind of annoying nuance to 
> this prototype frame is that they didn't ream the steerer as deep as they 
> do for their production bikes, so I can't get the stem quite as low as I 
> wanted, but it's close enough that it doesn't warrant buying a new stem. 
> That said, I am actually quite floored by how much the Albatross brought 
> this bike to life for what I want from it.  I've run these bars on a few 
> bikes but this is the best they've felt on any bike for me. It's feeling 
> very right to me now. I know it's meant to be a roadish bike but I'd 
> sooner 
> put drops on a Homer or Hillborne; to me this bike suits the Albatross so 
> perfectly.  
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 15 February 2022 at 19:46:08 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Photo from today's lunchtime loop. I will be performing a bar/stem 
>> swap between this bike and the Bombadil (which is 11cm Tallux and 
>> Albatross) as well as cabling etc, then I believe the bike is "done" for 
>> a 
>> bit. Oh, and a cheap dynamo 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

I love both of these builds. I can imagine the Albatross work well. I 
enjoyed running Billie bars on mine.
On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 8:39:14 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Very nice Abe! I can believe it on the climbing - the long rear end makes 
> a world of a difference for climbing, I find! 
>
> Not much has changed on mine since I last posted it - the Albatross bars 
> feel perfect on this bike for me, even though it's suited to drops or 
> moustache bars. Granted, I'm using it a bit differently than intended too. 
> I've put a used dynamo front wheel on and am embracing the mismatched 
> wheels. Here's a pic of it on my way to donate some excess tires and parts 
> to the local non-profit bike shop today. No plans to change a thing! I'll 
> put some RH Barlow Pass endurance on eventually, but I want to wear these 
> out first 
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 4:44 PM Pancake  wrote:
>
>> Here's my 57cm prototype Charlie update and build:
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/DUpFlP27OE4/m/HZb6bU5XBAAJ
>> [image: IMG_3522.jpg][image: IMG_3550.jpg][image: IMG_3551.jpg][image: 
>> IMG_3556.jpg]
>> More pics here:  https://imgur.com/a/RiI8NN4
>>
>> My friend caught this 57cm Charlie prototype for me a few weeks ago - my 
>> ideal Riv since I want v-brakes (that my Sam and Cheviot lack). Sadly, this 
>> will end up replacing my Sam, but what a replacement! Vs. Sam: No more toe 
>> clip overlap, more chainstay length, climbs better (this surprised me), and 
>> more comfortable (for me at least). 
>>
>> I swapped nearly everything from my Hillborne onto the Charlie (and vice 
>> versa):
>> Frame - Charlie H Gallop 57cm prototype with canti posts
>> Wheelset - VO Voyager rims, DT Swiss Competition (double butted) spokes, 
>> SP (Shutter Precision) PV-8 dynamo hub in front, Bitex rear hub, Salsa 
>> skewers
>> Stem - Nitto technomic 70mm (IIRC)
>> Handlebars – Soma Portola (52cm wide at bar ends, 48cm at hoods)
>> Brake levers – TRP RRL 
>> Brakes - rear CX70 canti, front Shimano BR-R353 (will replace with Tektro 
>> 926al which has 85mm arms vs 90mm on the Shimanos ... they work well but 
>> the levers don't quite pull enough to feel right with the long arms). 
>> Koolstop e-brake pads in front. 
>> Handlbar tape - will replace random rainbow stuff with Newbaums some day.
>> Seatpost - Nitto S83
>> Seat - Brooks Flyer (but may replace with B17s or C19)
>> Crankset - Sugino clipper triple 26/36/46 ... will replace with VO 46/30 
>> double
>> Cassette – Suntour 11-40t 9 speed
>> Front derailleur – Riv put on a Blue Line, it is JUST enough range to 
>> shift to the tallest chainring, but only just.
>> Rear derailer - nexus rapid rise, it doesn't have quite enough spring 
>> tension with this setup to keep from skipping under hard pedaling, I'll try 
>> the XT rapid rise and hope that works better like it did on the Sam.
>> Pedals – Kona Wah Wah - 118mm x 120mm
>> Tires – Schwalbe G-One Allround 700 x 50mm
>> Lights - IQ-XS in front and Secula in back
>>
>> Abe
>>
>> On Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 19:57:32 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I had the same issue with the stem but didn't attribute it to being a 
>>> prototype.  I can't use taller stems at all because they just don't go down 
>>> deep enough. Is that not the case with standard Riv's?
>>>
>>> I used Billie's and really enjoyed it.  It's clear that the frame was 
>>> built for sweptbacks.
>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:38:28 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Update - put on the Albatross bars. One kind of annoying nuance to this 
 prototype frame is that they didn't ream the steerer as deep as they do 
 for 
 their production bikes, so I can't get the stem quite as low as I wanted, 
 but it's close enough that it doesn't warrant buying a new stem. That 
 said, 
 I am actually quite floored by how much the Albatross brought this bike to 
 life for what I want from it.  I've run these bars on a few bikes but this 
 is the best they've felt on any bike for me. It's feeling very right to me 
 now. I know it's meant to be a roadish bike but I'd sooner put drops on a 
 Homer or Hillborne; to me this bike suits the Albatross so perfectly.  



 On Tuesday, 15 February 2022 at 19:46:08 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Photo from today's lunchtime loop. I will be performing a bar/stem 
> swap between this bike and the Bombadil (which is 11cm Tallux and 
> Albatross) as well as cabling etc, then I believe the bike is "done" for 
> a 
> bit. Oh, and a cheap dynamo front wheel because a commuter must have 
> dynamo 
> in my books. 
>
> As much as I would not pick these tires for myself, I must admit 
> they're pretty well suited to my needs (daily commuting and general 
> getting 
> around on pavement and hardpack paths) so I am going to do my best to 
> leave 
> them well enough alone. I was quite pleased to see they clear 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

I had the same issue with the stem but didn't attribute it to being a 
prototype.  I can't use taller stems at all because they just don't go down 
deep enough. Is that not the case with standard Riv's?

I used Billie's and really enjoyed it.  It's clear that the frame was built 
for sweptbacks.
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:38:28 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Update - put on the Albatross bars. One kind of annoying nuance to this 
> prototype frame is that they didn't ream the steerer as deep as they do for 
> their production bikes, so I can't get the stem quite as low as I wanted, 
> but it's close enough that it doesn't warrant buying a new stem. That said, 
> I am actually quite floored by how much the Albatross brought this bike to 
> life for what I want from it.  I've run these bars on a few bikes but this 
> is the best they've felt on any bike for me. It's feeling very right to me 
> now. I know it's meant to be a roadish bike but I'd sooner put drops on a 
> Homer or Hillborne; to me this bike suits the Albatross so perfectly.  
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 15 February 2022 at 19:46:08 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Photo from today's lunchtime loop. I will be performing a bar/stem swap 
>> between this bike and the Bombadil (which is 11cm Tallux and Albatross) as 
>> well as cabling etc, then I believe the bike is "done" for a bit. Oh, and a 
>> cheap dynamo front wheel because a commuter must have dynamo in my books. 
>>
>> As much as I would not pick these tires for myself, I must admit they're 
>> pretty well suited to my needs (daily commuting and general getting around 
>> on pavement and hardpack paths) so I am going to do my best to leave them 
>> well enough alone. I was quite pleased to see they clear the VO Zeppelin 
>> fenders with plenty of room despite being at the top end of the fitment 
>> range. 
>>
>> Has anyone tried shellac'ing over the padded Newbaums? Yay or nay?  
>>
>> [image: PXL_20220215_222746275.jpg] 
>>
>> On Monday, 14 February 2022 at 10:11:31 UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Very cool, thank ya both! 
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:32:32 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 At that point I really think it comes down to builds. A SH built up 
 lightish could feel much more nimble and quick than a Gallop with full 
 racks, fenders, heavy tires etc. I agree with Jason that built the same 
 they would likely feel pretty similar.

 On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:22:18 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I can't offer a very good A-B comparison based on their setups, though 
> they've both been set up with the Wavie bar at one point or another, but 
> my 
> feel so far is that they're not too different from one another - I 
> noticed 
> from the attached engineering drawings that the tubing is quite similar 
> spec, though a bit more flex built into the Charlie, and the angles are 
> similar also (some math required on the CHG but it's HTA 71 / 71.5 STA). 
> They both seem to possess that 'surprisingly quick considering it's so 
> comfortable' quality, but my belief is that it would be marginal gains at 
> best going from a Sam to a CHG in terms of speed, with the same setup.  
>
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 6:48 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> Hi Gallop riders – Does anyone have a take on the Gallop in contrast 
>> to an unloaded Hillborne with drops? I know Jason has a Hillborne but 
>> racked and fendered. Curious how they compare :)
>>
>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:31:56 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Killer! I can't wait to see it. Make sure to post it up here when 
>>> its done.  The extra few mm of height on those mini-v's should be 
>>> perfect. 
>>> I have the Box mini's and they cleared a real world 48mm tire with just 
>>> a 
>>> touch of clearance. The extra bit of height should allow you to clear 
>>> 50's.  I plan to move to Rivendell V's when they are available only 
>>> because 
>>> I love the way they are looking from the early drawings and such.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:17:25 AM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>>
 Johny: yes, my friend was quick on the draw and got it for me 
 because they knew it was my ideal version of a Charlie - gotta have 
 those 
 canti/v-brake posts. It’ll end up replacing my Sam Hillborne. 

 Now Charlie’s sitting (ironically with no saddle) in my garage 
 waiting for a few quick changes (replace the C15 narrow saddle with my 
 Flyer imperial, add a rack and basket) before getting some commuter 
 duty 
 and a nice long ride next weekend… then more tinkering and changes to 
 follow like:
 • Mini v-brakes (likely Shimano BR R353 with 90mm arch, taller than 
 the Box Two or Three 85mm mini v’s), 
 • Swapping for my Hillborne’s wheelset 

Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Eric Marth]

Very cool, thank ya both! 

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:32:32 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> At that point I really think it comes down to builds. A SH built up 
> lightish could feel much more nimble and quick than a Gallop with full 
> racks, fenders, heavy tires etc. I agree with Jason that built the same 
> they would likely feel pretty similar.
>
> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:22:18 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I can't offer a very good A-B comparison based on their setups, though 
>> they've both been set up with the Wavie bar at one point or another, but my 
>> feel so far is that they're not too different from one another - I noticed 
>> from the attached engineering drawings that the tubing is quite similar 
>> spec, though a bit more flex built into the Charlie, and the angles are 
>> similar also (some math required on the CHG but it's HTA 71 / 71.5 STA). 
>> They both seem to possess that 'surprisingly quick considering it's so 
>> comfortable' quality, but my belief is that it would be marginal gains at 
>> best going from a Sam to a CHG in terms of speed, with the same setup.  
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 6:48 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gallop riders – Does anyone have a take on the Gallop in contrast to 
>>> an unloaded Hillborne with drops? I know Jason has a Hillborne but racked 
>>> and fendered. Curious how they compare :)
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:31:56 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 Killer! I can't wait to see it. Make sure to post it up here when its 
 done.  The extra few mm of height on those mini-v's should be perfect. I 
 have the Box mini's and they cleared a real world 48mm tire with just a 
 touch of clearance. The extra bit of height should allow you to clear 
 50's.  I plan to move to Rivendell V's when they are available only 
 because 
 I love the way they are looking from the early drawings and such.

 On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:17:25 AM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:

> Johny: yes, my friend was quick on the draw and got it for me because 
> they knew it was my ideal version of a Charlie - gotta have those 
> canti/v-brake posts. It’ll end up replacing my Sam Hillborne. 
>
> Now Charlie’s sitting (ironically with no saddle) in my garage waiting 
> for a few quick changes (replace the C15 narrow saddle with my Flyer 
> imperial, add a rack and basket) before getting some commuter duty and a 
> nice long ride next weekend… then more tinkering and changes to follow 
> like:
> • Mini v-brakes (likely Shimano BR R353 with 90mm arch, taller than 
> the Box Two or Three 85mm mini v’s), 
> • Swapping for my Hillborne’s wheelset (first wheels I built) with 
> G-One Allround 50mm tires
> • Dynamo lights, 
> • 46/30t double crankset to a 11-40t cassette (which may require a 
> wolftooth-like hanger extender), and 
> • Kona Wah Wah pedals. 
>
> Now I just need some spare time for wrenching … but I’ll probably 
> spend that time riding my daughters around in the Rosco Baby bike 
> instead. 
> The highest form of productive procrastination.
>
> Abe
>
> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 16:51:41 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Pancake, so you got the third Gallop V1 prototype?
>>
>> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:18:18 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>
>>> Drop bar Sam checking in per David's request/comment ... soon to be 
>>> replaced by another Proto Charlie (photos of that orange 57cm to come 
>>> later).
>>> [image: IMG_3134.JPG]
>>> [image: IMG_7170.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/j5vUNKjgsUE/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c76ba657-1a75-47ac-8c8d-753a07704a5dn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

At that point I really think it comes down to builds. A SH built up 
lightish could feel much more nimble and quick than a Gallop with full 
racks, fenders, heavy tires etc. I agree with Jason that built the same 
they would likely feel pretty similar.

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:22:18 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I can't offer a very good A-B comparison based on their setups, though 
> they've both been set up with the Wavie bar at one point or another, but my 
> feel so far is that they're not too different from one another - I noticed 
> from the attached engineering drawings that the tubing is quite similar 
> spec, though a bit more flex built into the Charlie, and the angles are 
> similar also (some math required on the CHG but it's HTA 71 / 71.5 STA). 
> They both seem to possess that 'surprisingly quick considering it's so 
> comfortable' quality, but my belief is that it would be marginal gains at 
> best going from a Sam to a CHG in terms of speed, with the same setup.  
>
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 6:48 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> Hi Gallop riders – Does anyone have a take on the Gallop in contrast to 
>> an unloaded Hillborne with drops? I know Jason has a Hillborne but racked 
>> and fendered. Curious how they compare :)
>>
>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:31:56 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Killer! I can't wait to see it. Make sure to post it up here when its 
>>> done.  The extra few mm of height on those mini-v's should be perfect. I 
>>> have the Box mini's and they cleared a real world 48mm tire with just a 
>>> touch of clearance. The extra bit of height should allow you to clear 
>>> 50's.  I plan to move to Rivendell V's when they are available only because 
>>> I love the way they are looking from the early drawings and such.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:17:25 AM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>>
 Johny: yes, my friend was quick on the draw and got it for me because 
 they knew it was my ideal version of a Charlie - gotta have those 
 canti/v-brake posts. It’ll end up replacing my Sam Hillborne. 

 Now Charlie’s sitting (ironically with no saddle) in my garage waiting 
 for a few quick changes (replace the C15 narrow saddle with my Flyer 
 imperial, add a rack and basket) before getting some commuter duty and a 
 nice long ride next weekend… then more tinkering and changes to follow 
 like:
 • Mini v-brakes (likely Shimano BR R353 with 90mm arch, taller than the 
 Box Two or Three 85mm mini v’s), 
 • Swapping for my Hillborne’s wheelset (first wheels I built) with 
 G-One Allround 50mm tires
 • Dynamo lights, 
 • 46/30t double crankset to a 11-40t cassette (which may require a 
 wolftooth-like hanger extender), and 
 • Kona Wah Wah pedals. 

 Now I just need some spare time for wrenching … but I’ll probably spend 
 that time riding my daughters around in the Rosco Baby bike instead. The 
 highest form of productive procrastination.

 Abe

 On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 16:51:41 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Pancake, so you got the third Gallop V1 prototype?
>
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:18:18 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>
>> Drop bar Sam checking in per David's request/comment ... soon to be 
>> replaced by another Proto Charlie (photos of that orange 57cm to come 
>> later).
>> [image: IMG_3134.JPG]
>> [image: IMG_7170.jpg]
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/j5vUNKjgsUE/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c76ba657-1a75-47ac-8c8d-753a07704a5dn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Eric Marth]

Hi Gallop riders – Does anyone have a take on the Gallop in contrast to an 
unloaded Hillborne with drops? I know Jason has a Hillborne but racked and 
fendered. Curious how they compare :)

On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:31:56 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Killer! I can't wait to see it. Make sure to post it up here when its 
> done.  The extra few mm of height on those mini-v's should be perfect. I 
> have the Box mini's and they cleared a real world 48mm tire with just a 
> touch of clearance. The extra bit of height should allow you to clear 
> 50's.  I plan to move to Rivendell V's when they are available only because 
> I love the way they are looking from the early drawings and such.
>
> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:17:25 AM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>
>> Johny: yes, my friend was quick on the draw and got it for me because 
>> they knew it was my ideal version of a Charlie - gotta have those 
>> canti/v-brake posts. It’ll end up replacing my Sam Hillborne. 
>>
>> Now Charlie’s sitting (ironically with no saddle) in my garage waiting 
>> for a few quick changes (replace the C15 narrow saddle with my Flyer 
>> imperial, add a rack and basket) before getting some commuter duty and a 
>> nice long ride next weekend… then more tinkering and changes to follow like:
>> • Mini v-brakes (likely Shimano BR R353 with 90mm arch, taller than the 
>> Box Two or Three 85mm mini v’s), 
>> • Swapping for my Hillborne’s wheelset (first wheels I built) with G-One 
>> Allround 50mm tires
>> • Dynamo lights, 
>> • 46/30t double crankset to a 11-40t cassette (which may require a 
>> wolftooth-like hanger extender), and 
>> • Kona Wah Wah pedals. 
>>
>> Now I just need some spare time for wrenching … but I’ll probably spend 
>> that time riding my daughters around in the Rosco Baby bike instead. The 
>> highest form of productive procrastination.
>>
>> Abe
>>
>> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 16:51:41 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Pancake, so you got the third Gallop V1 prototype?
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:18:18 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>>
 Drop bar Sam checking in per David's request/comment ... soon to be 
 replaced by another Proto Charlie (photos of that orange 57cm to come 
 later).
 [image: IMG_3134.JPG]
 [image: IMG_7170.jpg]




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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

Killer! I can't wait to see it. Make sure to post it up here when its 
done.  The extra few mm of height on those mini-v's should be perfect. I 
have the Box mini's and they cleared a real world 48mm tire with just a 
touch of clearance. The extra bit of height should allow you to clear 
50's.  I plan to move to Rivendell V's when they are available only because 
I love the way they are looking from the early drawings and such.

On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:17:25 AM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:

> Johny: yes, my friend was quick on the draw and got it for me because they 
> knew it was my ideal version of a Charlie - gotta have those canti/v-brake 
> posts. It’ll end up replacing my Sam Hillborne. 
>
> Now Charlie’s sitting (ironically with no saddle) in my garage waiting for 
> a few quick changes (replace the C15 narrow saddle with my Flyer imperial, 
> add a rack and basket) before getting some commuter duty and a nice long 
> ride next weekend… then more tinkering and changes to follow like:
> • Mini v-brakes (likely Shimano BR R353 with 90mm arch, taller than the 
> Box Two or Three 85mm mini v’s), 
> • Swapping for my Hillborne’s wheelset (first wheels I built) with G-One 
> Allround 50mm tires
> • Dynamo lights, 
> • 46/30t double crankset to a 11-40t cassette (which may require a 
> wolftooth-like hanger extender), and 
> • Kona Wah Wah pedals. 
>
> Now I just need some spare time for wrenching … but I’ll probably spend 
> that time riding my daughters around in the Rosco Baby bike instead. The 
> highest form of productive procrastination.
>
> Abe
>
> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 16:51:41 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Pancake, so you got the third Gallop V1 prototype?
>>
>> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:18:18 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>>
>>> Drop bar Sam checking in per David's request/comment ... soon to be 
>>> replaced by another Proto Charlie (photos of that orange 57cm to come 
>>> later).
>>> [image: IMG_3134.JPG]
>>> [image: IMG_7170.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Pancake]

Johny: yes, my friend was quick on the draw and got it for me because they 
knew it was my ideal version of a Charlie - gotta have those canti/v-brake 
posts. It’ll end up replacing my Sam Hillborne. 

Now Charlie’s sitting (ironically with no saddle) in my garage waiting for 
a few quick changes (replace the C15 narrow saddle with my Flyer imperial, 
add a rack and basket) before getting some commuter duty and a nice long 
ride next weekend… then more tinkering and changes to follow like:
• Mini v-brakes (likely Shimano BR R353 with 90mm arch, taller than the Box 
Two or Three 85mm mini v’s), 
• Swapping for my Hillborne’s wheelset (first wheels I built) with G-One 
Allround 50mm tires
• Dynamo lights, 
• 46/30t double crankset to a 11-40t cassette (which may require a 
wolftooth-like hanger extender), and 
• Kona Wah Wah pedals. 

Now I just need some spare time for wrenching … but I’ll probably spend 
that time riding my daughters around in the Rosco Baby bike instead. The 
highest form of productive procrastination.

Abe

On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 16:51:41 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Pancake, so you got the third Gallop V1 prototype?
>
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:18:18 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
>
>> Drop bar Sam checking in per David's request/comment ... soon to be 
>> replaced by another Proto Charlie (photos of that orange 57cm to come 
>> later).
>> [image: IMG_3134.JPG]
>> [image: IMG_7170.jpg]
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[David Hays]

I think it might have been OT post keeping a smile on my face.
Sorry if I unintentionally entrapped him…


David

> On Feb 11, 2022, at 7:51 PM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
> 
> Pancake, so you got the third Gallop V1 prototype?
> 
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:18:18 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:
> Drop bar Sam checking in per David's request/comment ... soon to be replaced 
> by another Proto Charlie (photos of that orange 57cm to come later).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> .
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/70df2111-ce87-408a-b5fa-ec497dcacf1bn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Johnny Alien]

Pancake, so you got the third Gallop V1 prototype?

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:18:18 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:

> Drop bar Sam checking in per David's request/comment ... soon to be 
> replaced by another Proto Charlie (photos of that orange 57cm to come 
> later).
> [image: IMG_3134.JPG]
> [image: IMG_7170.jpg]
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[David Hays]

Beautiful bike and build Jason.
Love to see other Rivendell drop bar bikes.

David Hays

> On Feb 10, 2022, at 9:02 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
> 
> Introducing MY protovelo Charlie (54cm), if it's okay for me to join you in 
> this thread Johnny! 
> 
> Quick neighborhood ride today between meetings in exactly the trim it came 
> in, because I'll be swapping parts around from here on out and wanted to 
> document the starting point.  
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 05:57:35 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
> @Eric I missed your question yesterday. I use it for all my road riding. I 
> normally (In the warmer months) ride a few times a week and about 10 miles at 
> a time. I like light trails rides but those require me driving to them so I 
> don't do them as often and am in the process of getting another bike setup 
> for those rides and for shopping runs.  This one will stick to the fun quick 
> road rides. I did do a couple of "tour" rides with it last year. Those were 
> in the 50-75 miles range.  I still had the Billie bars at that time and it 
> all worked well.  I have it built to be pretty light and IMO it rides like a 
> great road bike should. The front end was flexy with the old Nitto stem and 
> wide Billie bars. I am curious as to how the new setup will affect that. Its 
> still pretty cold so my rides have been very short. The long wheelbase makes 
> fast descents solid and fun.  Its a new experience doing all of my riding 
> upright now but so far I don't have a desire to go back. (although I do love 
> Albastache bars).
> 
> I am a bit shocked that Rivendell is going to make these available with 
> albastache bars stock.  I normally run the albastache on a shorter stem than 
> my drops. So if I ride drops on an 8 I would put an albastache on a 7 or more 
> likely a 6.  It's because I spend more time stretched out into the "hook" 
> area which is not something I do as often on regular drops. There I spend the 
> bulk of my time on the top or hoods.  The Gallop is designed for sweptback 
> bars so in order to do drops you would need a very short stem unless you have 
> a long torso.  For me to do albastache I would probably need one of those 
> zero extension bars. I think they should keep pushing the sweptbacks. I think 
> the choco and losco/tosco are going to be the sweet spot but I will know more 
> in a few weeks when things start to warm up.
> 
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 10:02:47 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
> I forgot that I was so positive about the Ultradynamicos.  I had the JFF 
> version which is not the most supple but also not the most robust.  They rode 
> well but after awhile for mostly road use the little knobs or whatever they 
> are just seemed to be a drag. I think they would do really well for light 
> trail use but for straight road use they just ended up seeming a little 
> overbuilt for what they want to be.  I was loving life when I first got this 
> bike and I think I was overlooking aspects of the tire that later became more 
> apparent. I never tried the race version but for the money I think there are 
> better riding and more supple options. Many of them cheaper too.
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:31:28 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
> I too was surprised to see you ended up not feeling the Cava's, though I 
> wholeheartedly agree that the RH tires are vastly more comfortable.  I find 
> the UD Cava to be a nice mix of speed and grip for mixed pavement and 
> hardpack, but their casings don't feel very supple/comfortable even in Race 
> version.  
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, 9 February 2022 at 18:19:38 UTC-8 Justin wrote:
> The cockpit change up was an improvement, looks great. Curious about the 
> Ultradynamicos. In your original post you highly recommended them but ended 
> up not caring for them, curious what changed? I've been waiting on their 
> restocking
> 
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 5:22:42 PM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com <> wrote:
> Looks great, Johnny. 
> 
> Can you tell us about the ride? How does it handle and what kinds of rides 
> have you taken it on? 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:30:55 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
> Updated photos: 
> New stem (I like the positive degree angle and also wanted something with a 
> removable faceplate)
> I swapped the bar for Loscos (I like the Billies and will be using them on an 
> upcoming build but I think the Losco has a better look for a road bike and no 
> negatives when compared to the Billies)
> I swapped tires (I didn't care for the Ultradymanicos. They are Rene Herse 
> tires and they are really nice. The mismatching is just because)
> 
> 
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 12:48:02 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
> Beautiful build, and I am supremely jealous. The crew knows that if they 
> decide to sell the grivler 53, they've got a buyer in me. I love how low and 
> long it is, like a scrawny Hillibike. That would be a pretty optimal two-bike 
> quiver; this and a matching Susie.