Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Monday, September 8, 2003, 6:50:12 PM, Alexander wrote: Can you for just a *moment* think of how you would feel if you registered TB 1.x about 2.01 months ago (like danger h), please? Can you answer me, then, if it maybe seems unfair, or if you feel ripped off? Come n... I was hired in my new job on March 1 2003. According to greek low, If I was hired until Feb 28 I was entitled for vacations in 2003. Although I am entitled for vacations (just few days) I was not entitled for vacation benefit. That is 1000 Euro. Life sucks. Got to live with it though. If a company forgets that updates to their products are actually worth money and then suddenly charge each and every user the same... ungh, how many times did I repeat this, enough... If I understand correctly you prefer to pay, even if it is a reduced amount for every upgrade? You would be alone that, because a reason for Bat to be popular ,except being so powerful, is that Ritlabs constantly updates Bat and NOT charge a cent. -- /\/\ || George M. Menegakis - System Administrator || || Centre of Communications and Networking|| || Iraklion Campus - University Of Crete || || mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], icq: 4557532 || || phone: +30 81 393 306, fax:+30 81 39 3318 || \/\/ Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
George M. Menegakis wrote: If a company forgets that updates to their products are actually worth money and then suddenly charge each and every user the same... ungh, how many times did I repeat this, enough... If I understand correctly you prefer to pay, even if it is a reduced amount for every upgrade? You would be alone that, because a reason for Bat to be popular ,except being so powerful, is that Ritlabs constantly updates Bat and NOT charge a cent. Hear hear. I always read here that people were willing to pay for updates and that they use TB because of its unique features... -- l8er Alex. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Thomas, Monday, September 8, 2003, 12:58:21 AM, you wrote: TF I also haven't read this. Or I must be getting old - let me find my TF Gingko Biloba. Hm. Can you point me to a mid saying that anybody got TF a free key because he registered within two months from the release of TF v2? Finally after two e-mail and a phone call my new Ver 2.x serial number arrived. Thanks for every ones support. - -- Best regards, Dangermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP SDK 3.0.2 iQA/AwUBP13jDHrWNKgp50M4EQIR8wCfeVivAFAV6n6Ca2Bk1JvcXvQwPUIAnifT ZJOQNL1AVL0tJp12biCglDPy =kRJP -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Sunday, September 7, 2003, 2:10:08 PM, Marck D Pearlstone wrote: Superb. This is a company that has continually enhanced and upgraded a product to extreme levels without charging existing users a penny for five years! Although it maybe seem unfair for new users I totally agree with you. I use The Bat! since May '99 and for four years we got MAJOR enhancements for free. If some other company has produced the Bat, the very same program with the same feature set would be in version 4 or 5 and not 2.00.6. Believe me 1.60 was a major upgrade to 1.50 which was a major upgrade to 1.40 and so forth. RITLABS, kindly offered me a free upgrade to 2.00 but I didn't accept it because in my point of view it would be a cheat. I bought the ugrade of 22$ but I would have bought it even if I had to pay the full price. Just my 0.02 ยค -- /\/\ || George M. Menegakis - System Administrator || || Centre of Communications and Networking|| || Iraklion Campus - University Of Crete || || mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], icq: 4557532 || || phone: +30 81 393 306, fax:+30 81 39 3318 || \/\/ Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hallo MAU, On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:49:51 +0200GMT (8-9-03, 0:49 +0200, where I live), you wrote: There are more I guess. My set of reply templates needs to be overhauled seriously. M Then that is enough for me to not upgrade. I don't care about IMAP, M PGP/MIME or HTML, why should I upgrade if I may have to overhaul (as M you say) my QTs and templates? Maybe because of the possibility to add headers or to manipulate existing headers with respectively the %AddHeader and the %SetHeader macros? -- Groetjes, Roelof Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Pixie, On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:13:26 -0400 GMT (08/09/2003, 17:13 +0700 GMT), Pixie wrote: However, I hate to say it, a couple of the problems I am having with 2.xx have not been isolated/fixed and I would be using 1.62r if I had a registration code for it. Are you saying you are experiencing bugs in v2 that weren't there in 1.62r? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I saw a woman wearing a sweatshirt with 'Guess' on it. I said, 'Thyroid problem?' Message reply created with The Bat! 2.00.6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Roelof, Maybe because of the possibility to add headers or to manipulate existing headers with respectively the %AddHeader and the %SetHeader macros? I haven't felt the need to use any of these header macros so far. I am personally not concerned about the cost of the upgrade, it is that my policy is pretty much If it ain't broke, don't fix it!. That is probably why I am still on 1.62i, I found no need to even upgrade to 1.62r. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.62i Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Sunday, September 7, 2003, Julian Beach (Lists) wrote: You don't have to want TB v2.x now, but if you think you will after October 2003, then it is still worth paying the $17.50 now. Paying now for a might in two months doesn't make sense to me. Putting those money away, following the discussions, and making the decision on upgrading in the end of October does. -- Urban Ancient Egypt was inhabited by mummies and they all wrote in hydraulics. They lived in the Sarah Dessert and travelled by Camelot. The climate of the Sarah is such that the inhabitants have to live elsewhere. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Thomas, Monday, September 8, 2003, 12:58:21 AM, you wrote: TF I also haven't read this. Or I must be getting old - let me find my TF Gingko Biloba. Hm. Can you point me to a mid saying that anybody got TF a free key because he registered within two months from the release of TF v2? Again please refer to a threat I have created called Amnesty. There is a user there who states this clearly. - -- Best regards, Dangermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP SDK 3.0.2 iQA/AwUBP1yUEXrWNKgp50M4EQIIyACg1njxiBpIPr7pbcy7dmCUs/neXC0An3Xy 9Gf6Fj8ekzjGOR3UgJDx9iHC =4xif -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Monday, September 8, 2003, 6:13:26 AM, Pixie wrote: P To a large extent the internet and the instant gratification P it brings especially with software is tiresome at times. I P used to never know doodle about alpha/beta stages and having P the freshest version just wasn't a consideration unless P problems came up. I never used to keep this current (disregard P my OS :-) on so many applications when it required long P distance BBS calls at the all too slow baud rates of the day. Many years ago, about 1985, I was an active Compu$erve user. I was using one of the first Macintoshes and used a really cool comm program called Red Ryder. It was very slick with great macros, xmodem, etc. I used Red Ryder to access Compu$erve and after a while it slowly dawned on me that the main reason I was using Compu$erve was to download new versions of RR. Eventually, I cancelled that service. Even way back then, I was fascinated with the ability of the world-wide communication that enabled. I was so proud of that 1200 baud modem when I got it! :) -- Dave Kennedy Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 06:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't you read that people on this very list are getting free updates since they registered two months from the release of v2? Where is that written down? Nowhere? Aha... I also haven't read this. Or I must be getting old - let me find my Gingko Biloba. Hm. Can you point me to a mid saying that anybody got a free key because he registered within two months from the release of v2? I read it in various mails, I didn't dig very, I remembered only the Amnesty thread where Christopher Brown mentions it: mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Experience is directly proportional to the value of equipment destroyed. -- Carolyn Scheppner Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 09:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Superb. This is a company that has continually enhanced and upgraded a product to extreme levels without charging existing users a penny for five years! Although it maybe seem unfair for new users I totally agree with you. Can you for just a *moment* think of how you would feel if you registered TB 1.x about 2.01 months ago (like danger h), please? Can you answer me, then, if it maybe seems unfair, or if you feel ripped off? Come n... If a company forgets that updates to their products are actually worth money and then suddenly charge each and every user the same... ungh, how many times did I repeat this, enough... I use The Bat! since May '99 and for four years we got MAJOR enhancements for free. If some other company has produced the Bat, the very same program with the same feature set would be in version 4 or 5 and not 2.00.6. Believe me 1.60 was a major upgrade to 1.50 which was a major upgrade to 1.40 and so forth. If that is so then what, in the name of everything that doesn't suck, would've been the problem to say registered before 1.50 release = high update fee while registered before 1.60 release = moderate upgrade fee and registered after 1.60 release = lower upgrade fee? -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down I was convulsed with laughter. Someday I intend reading it. -- Groucho Marx Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 11:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A And seriously... displays with less than 60 columns? How oldskool-ish. A :) There _are_ those who have bad vision yet still feel compelled to use their eyes... Sure, if you look hard enough you can find an exception to about anything you want... -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Compassion is the most effective use of power. -- Patrick Douglas Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Monday, September 8, 2003, 4:50:12 PM, Alexander wrote: If that is so then what, in the name of everything that doesn't suck, would've been the problem to say registered before 1.50 release = high update fee while registered before 1.60 release = moderate upgrade fee and registered after 1.60 release = lower upgrade fee? Cost, I should imagine. TB is not a high cost product, and the costs of providing an upgrade procedure based on this, which would probably require considerable manual checking, would probably wipe out the profit. As I noted before, although the current upgrade policy may not be fair to recent purchasers, it does have the benefit of being cheap to operate, and therefore helps to keep the costs of the product down. Julian -- Using The Bat! v2.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 18:06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cost, I should imagine. TB is not a high cost product, and the costs of providing an upgrade procedure based on this, which would probably require considerable manual checking There's something like a database, I assume. I have no knowledge about it but I guess I can write the MS Access queries to filter that information out within 30 minutes... -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Pixie, On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:42:08 -0400 GMT (08/09/2003, 22:42 +0700 GMT), Pixie wrote: DK Many years ago, about 1985, I was an active Compu$erve user. [...] DK I was so proud of that 1200 baud modem when I got it! :) I have a few of those still. My word, I think the going rate on a couple of the USR modems I have was around US$600+ at the time. That may have even been after the SysOp discount. This is getting OT, but I started off with a 360 baud acoustic coupler! I don't know the cost, it was in research at the time, so it was provided. The later modems where such an innovative invention. ;-) @Dave: Yes I was on Cserve too. I even wrote to them saying that I would market them in Thailand, but they politely declined, saying that they were focussed on Europe and the US. Well. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Woran erkennen Sie, das Sie als Bedienung nichts taugen? Sie halten Caipirinha fur einen fleischfressenden Fisch. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.00.6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Alexander, On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:47:07 +0200 GMT (08/09/2003, 22:47 +0700 GMT), Alexander wrote: Can you point me to a mid saying that anybody got a free key because he registered within two months from the release of v2? I read it in various mails, I didn't dig very, I remembered only the Amnesty thread where Christopher Brown mentions it: OK, you got me. Even though that was not an official announcement... -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. WE LEARN that the Acme ultrasonic dog whistle warns purchasers: This product will be ineffective if your dog is deaf. Well, well, well. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.00.6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Monday, September 8, 2003, 4:50:12 PM, Alexander wrote: If that is so then what, in the name of everything that doesn't suck, would've been the problem to say registered before 1.50 release = high update fee while registered before 1.60 release = moderate upgrade fee and registered after 1.60 release = lower upgrade fee? Cost, I should imagine. TB is not a high cost product, and the costs of providing an upgrade procedure based on this, which would probably require considerable manual checking, would probably wipe out the profit. As I noted before, although the current upgrade policy may not be fair to recent purchasers, it does have the benefit of being cheap to operate, and therefore helps to keep the costs of the product down. I have solved all these issues. I now use foxmail. it does not do quite as much in some areas but more in areas that I need and want. Besides most my email is done from linux and since the bat is not on linux I have found other solutions. Problem solved. I have to admit I am an actual paying user of the bat and at one time it was far ahead of the competition. Now it still has a few features that by and large are nice but not of use toe the everyday user. The only area it may still have an edge is in security but still at best it is only as secure as my linux solution and still cant do multiple accounts and many other features I have in every other email client I use. Thanks for the excellent email client for it's time. Julian -- Using The Bat! v2.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html __ NOD32 1.502 (20030905) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. http://www.nod32.com Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 17:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Grin! I was fascinated with the telecommunications facet of computers from the instant I was exposed to it. I think the first modem I used was home-made. :-) What I find fascinating until this very day is the fact that the data one wishes to transfer always exceeds the bandwidth to an amount were transfers are boring and slow. Imagine you'd mentioned to someone stuck in the middle of 1985 that you can download with mbit-Speed today, but have your transfers still running overnight because it takes so long. :-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) The trouble with being in the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hi Alexander, I use The Bat! since May '99 and for four years we got MAJOR enhancements for free. If some other company has produced the Bat, the very same program with the same feature set would be in version 4 or 5 and not 2.00.6. Believe me 1.60 was a major upgrade to 1.50 which was a major upgrade to 1.40 and so forth. A If that is so then what, in the name of everything that doesn't suck, A would've been the problem to say registered before 1.50 release = high A update fee while registered before 1.60 release = moderate upgrade fee A and registered after 1.60 release = lower upgrade fee? The rationale here I think is that it is a smaller jump from 1.6 to 2.0, and therefor you shouldn't pay as much? But this thinking is the reason that Microsoft NEVER releases any updates, short of bug fixes. Anything new is squirreled away for a couple of years, until a new version comes out. The point is that what you suggest would encourage that. Why bother releasing new features as minor updates if you people are going to then complain that 2.0 is not much different than 1.6? You are just going to shoot yourself in the pocketbook. Better to keep 1.0 out forever, release bug fixes as .01 and .02 revisions, and keep all the new features for 2.0. Then you can charge everyone 75% of the full price for the upgrade...insert MS business plan here. I believe it is Microsoft's way of doing business that sucks. Ritlabs, while not exactly scoring a 10, is doing what they can to make some money, which is difficult. I do agree that the 2-month cutoff is a bad idea. -- Caio, Christopher Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm using The Bat! v2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Brook, On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:25:33 -0700 GMT (08/09/2003, 23:25 +0700 GMT), Brook Humphrey wrote: The only area it may still have an edge is in security but still at best it is only as secure as my linux solution and still cant do multiple accounts and many other features I have in every other email client I use. It does 13 accounts for me at the moment. And what other features in every other email client you use are you missing? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I don't kill flies, but I like to mess with their minds. I hold them above globes. They freak out and yell, Whooa, I'm way too high. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.00.6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Bonjour Deborah, Monday, September 8, 2003, 4:48:13 AM, j'ai pu lire: DW It's my understanding that it isn't a policy, but rather that inaccurate DW information was posted on the German website during that period of time, DW saying that those who registered TB v1. would get v2 free, that DW Ritlabs are therefore honouring that. Others, who were never promised a DW free update, are getting the 50% discount, which *is* the policy. Well, I was told my Stefan himself that the upgrade would be free in May 2003 after having asked him by email. In spite of the 2 mails I sent to RITlabs, I still have not received any new reg key nor any answer. So, I'm back under 1.6x, before the trial expires. Hope they will honor *that* promise. btw: Stefan, if you read this email... -- / _.'\ \Julien RANC / _.'\ \ /_.-'\___\ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\_\ `` .- \ _/| ICQ# : 36623205 | _\___. | | / \ | |/\| |__| Using The Bat! 1.63 Beta/7 s/n 96299A48 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Brook, Monday, September 8, 2003, 5:25:33 PM, you wrote: BH now use foxmail. it does not do quite as much in some areas BH but more in areas that I need and want Apart from being able to wrap lines properly and remove sigs. -- Jamie Dainton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leaders of the world's richest nations meet in Cancun on September 10th 2003. Oxfam is presenting them with a petition to make trade fair. Be sure your voice is heard. Sign the 'Big Noise' petition to make trade fair at: http://www.maketradefair.com/go/join/?p=omf1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 18:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only area it may still have an edge is in security but still at best it is only as secure as my linux solution and still cant do multiple accounts and many other features I have in every other email client I use. ...like breaking Threads when you reply? Now *that* hurts. :) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Welcome thy neighbor to thy fallout shelter. He'll come in handy if you run out of food. -- Dean McLaughlin Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 18:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only area it may still have an edge is in security but still at best it is only as secure as my linux solution and still cant do multiple accounts and many other features I have in every other email client I use. ...like breaking Threads when you reply? Now *that* hurts. :) yup here's another one for you .Thats about the only thing I miss it does not do threading properly. But then i dont use this very often mostly I use kmail which is superior to the abt in almost every way now. Just in case you want to know I did ask for A linux verion of the bat many times. Since they dont want to comply thats fine I went some palce else at least I'm not having allth arguments you guys are now weather or not to pay for 2.0 which I find to be extreemly funny. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
It seems that Brook Humphrey said ... B Just in case you want to know I did ask for A linux verion of the B bat many times. Since they dont want to comply thats fine I went some B palce else at least I'm not having allth arguments you guys are now B weather or not to pay for 2.0 which I find to be extreemly funny. I often wonder why, when people stop using a particular program, they hang around with support groups for the programs they don't use. I guess they have a lot of spare time on their hands. I don't much care what anyone else uses; you've picked the program you feel works best for you. Fine. I've picked the one that I feels works best for me. You're right. I'm right. Easy as that. -- Bill Blinn Technology Editor ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - 9/8/2003 at 1:38 PM Technology Editor, Newsradio 610 WTVN, Columbus, Ohio Using The Bat! v2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Random thought: When the rich make war it's the poor that die. - Jean-Paul Sartre. Featured speaker at PowerPoint Live - Tucson, Arizona October 12-15, 2003 - http://www.pptlive.com/ Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[3]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
It seems that Brook Humphrey said ... B Just in case you want to know I did ask for A linux verion of the B bat many times. Since they dont want to comply thats fine I went some B palce else at least I'm not having allth arguments you guys are now B weather or not to pay for 2.0 which I find to be extreemly funny. I often wonder why, when people stop using a particular program, they hang around with support groups for the programs they don't use. I guess they have a lot of spare time on their hands. I don't much care what anyone else uses; you've picked the program you feel works best for you. Fine. I've picked the one that I feels works best for me. You're right. I'm right. Easy as that. Naw I still like the bat I just had higher hopoes for it. The reason I was still around is bacuse till a few days ago I was still using the bat some times under windows. Then I noticed all the trafic and everybody arguing about having to pay for an upgrade and it all just struck me as funny. I never said I dont use it anymore just not at this time. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Bill- Wait - I'm right, too. Me. Me. Anyway, I figure Brook hangs around because either A) he can't figure out how to unsubscribe and is too embarrassed to ask or B) he's hoping that someday *somebody* will pipe up with how to get multiple accounts working on TB. g -- -Mark Wieder Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/7 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Bill- Wait - I'm right, too. Me. Me. Anyway, I figure Brook hangs around because either A) he can't figure out how to unsubscribe and is too embarrassed to ask or B) he's hoping that someday *somebody* will pipe up with how to get multiple accounts working on TB. g nope you would do better to be a shrink for somevbody else. I'm waiting for the bat on linux I think I said that earlier but really I was using it up to a few days ago when I decided to see what else was out there for windows. It's been forever since i even looked. I've used the bat under windows for years now. As for multiple accounts I dont care anymore since even if it does do it I already have a clinet I have been using jsut as long that does do it. We will see maybe one day the bat under linux wihtout wine will be a reallity. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
At 5:14 PM on 9/8/2003, Mark Wieder typed ... M Anyway, I figure Brook hangs around because either A) he can't figure M out how to unsubscribe and is too embarrassed to ask or B) he's hoping M that someday *somebody* will pipe up with how to get multiple accounts M working on TB. g TB has lots of obscure features. After 3+ years with the program, I still learn something new every now and then* (and there are several areas I haven't even looked at). Somehow, though, I think anyone who can't figure out multiple accounts on TB probably should be allowed around a computer unsupervised. *When I have time to read TBUDL, now and then means about twice a day. -- Bill Blinn Technology Editor ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - 9/8/2003 at 5:20 PM Technology Editor, Newsradio 610 WTVN, Columbus, Ohio Using The Bat! v2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Random thought: I have enough money to last me the rest of my life, unless I buy something. -- Jackie Mason Featured speaker at PowerPoint Live - Tucson, Arizona October 12-15, 2003 - http://www.pptlive.com/ Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Monday, September 8, 2003, 5:14:54 PM, Mark wrote: M B) he's hoping that someday *somebody* will pipe up with how M to get multiple accounts working on TB. g I've never understood this complaint from people on the list. I selected TB! quite a few years ago primarily because of its ability to handle multiple accounts. At the time the only other MUA that could do so was Becky and Eudora Pro. I found TB! to be better for my needs. Hint for setting up additional accounts: Account-New... -- Dave Kennedy Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re: Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Anyway, I figure Brook hangs around because either A) he can't figure out how to unsubscribe and is too embarrassed to ask or B) he's hoping that someday *somebody* will pipe up with how to get multiple accounts working on TB. g nope you would do better to be a shrink for somevbody else. I'm waiting for the bat on linux I think I said that earlier but really I was using it up to a few days ago when I decided to see what else was out there for windows. It's been forever since i even looked. I've used the bat under windows for years now. As for multiple accounts I dont care anymore since even if it does do it I already have a clinet I have been using jsut as long that does do it. We will see maybe one day the bat under linux wihtout wine will be a reallity. Hello, Brook Humphrey, I use both Foxmail and the BAT! Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Comprehensive HTML function and a great Bayesian spam filter are available with Foxmail 5.0 beta 1 and customizable macro templates are better with the BAT! But, why don't you use your spell checker? Best regards. Sheldon Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-09-08 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Brook, I've used the bat under windows for years now. As for multiple accounts I dont care anymore since even if it does do it I already have a clinet I have been using jsut as long that does do it. Am I reading correctly? Do you mean you have been using The Bat for years and you didn't know it could handle multiple accounts? -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.62i Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, you wrote A Scheduler. If you think you will or may have interest in these features then I strongly suggest upgrading since the current functionality from v1.62 is preserved and improved upon in some instances. Of course there'll be a few having problems as will always be the case with a major upgrade. Thanks for your comments, Allie. The scheduler, perhaps. The rest, most likely not. I will probably purchase during the discount period, but stick it out for awhile with the Christmas edition. I would miss seeing him smile. Elaine A man may be so much of everything that he is nothing of anything. --Samuel Johnson Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
MAU, M Hello Brook, I've used the bat under windows for years now. As for multiple accounts I dont care anymore since even if it does do it I already have a clinet I have been using jsut as long that does do it. M Am I reading correctly? Do you mean you have been using The Bat for M years and you didn't know it could handle multiple accounts? I've been sitting here all day trying to figure out how long ago it was that TB did NOT support multiple accounts . . . Be well, Allen -- | One of my poems chosen at random specifically for you: | http://jarday.com/Loosely%20inspired/peace5.shtml | | Running The_Bat! version 2.00.6 | Windows XP Service Pack 1 build 2600 -- Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello, Brook Humphrey, I use both Foxmail and the BAT! Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Comprehensive HTML function and a great Bayesian spam filter are available with Foxmail 5.0 beta 1 and customizable macro templates are better with the BAT! yes this was why Iooked around also. I get about 600 emails a day 200 of which are spam. But, why don't you use your spell checker? Ah well if you spell as bad as me then you dont it's wrong to begin with. Besides most of it comes from typing to fast. Best regards. Sheldon Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-09-08 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
I've been sitting here all day trying to figure out how long ago it was that TB did NOT support multiple accounts . . . sorry to be fair it's been a long time since I tried and have been using kmail for he most part since then. Any email client under windows for only gets occasional use. Be well, Allen Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Stefan, ST Hello Allen, ST Monday, September 8, 2003, 7:55:05 PM, you wrote: A I've been sitting here all day trying to figure out how long ago it A was that TB did NOT support multiple accounts . . . ST There was no such animal. First public Beta version produced in 1997 ST already included support of multiple accounts - it was right from the ST first line of code :-)) That's what I'd thought, Stefan, glad to know I'm not going crazy in my thinking so. Multiple account support was a big part of what brought me TO the bad, originally, back when this wasn't a common-place feature: and the templates totally sealed the deal. Be well, Allen -- | One of my poems chosen at random specifically for you: | http://jarday.com/harvest/003.shtml | | Running The_Bat! version 2.00.6 | Windows XP Service Pack 1 build 2600 -- Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hi Brook, @8-Sep-2003, 18:15 -0800 (03:15 UK time) Brook Humphrey said: I use both Foxmail and the BAT! Both have their strengths and yes this was why Iooked around also. I get about 600 emails a day 200 of which are spam. All I'll say here is that FoxMail may look good from your end but at this end it looks awful. Unwrapped message lines and infinitely repeating Re: in the reply subject. shudder. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Mark, On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:49:29 -0400 GMT (07/09/2003, 07:49 +0700 GMT), Mark wrote: M The Bat! Upgrade from 1.xx (Private) $17.50 M until 10/31/2003. M What will be the The Bat v2 Upgrade price after 10/31/2003? Full price instead of 50% discount? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Personnel executives of 100 major corporations were asked for stories of unusual behavior by job applicants. 5. Interrupted to phone his therapist for advice on answering specific interview questions. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.00 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 03:01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: M What will be the The Bat v2 Upgrade price after 10/31/2003? Full price instead of 50% discount? Its a buy or die update policy. Wonderful customer service, isn't it! -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) And there's a dreadful law here - it was made by mistake, but there it is - that if anyone asks for machinery, they have to have it and keep on using it. -- E. Nesbit Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hi Alexander, @7-Sep-2003, 10:27 +0200 (09:27 UK time) Alexander [N] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Thomas: M What will be the The Bat v2 Upgrade price after 10/31/2003? Full price instead of 50% discount? N Its a buy or die update policy. Wonderful customer service, N isn't it! Superb. This is a company that has continually enhanced and upgraded a product to extreme levels without charging existing users a penny for five years! I just hope this cashing in on the user base to fund further development enables them to continue giving us the same level of service for the next five years. I think they're very generous to give any kind of upgrade discount at all, considering the amount of time many of us have been using the software without paying extra for improvements. It may seem a bit rough on newer users, but it's not a major problem IMHO. The price could hardly be said to be extortionate. Sure, there's a matter of principal involved, but I've seen many an own nose slashed mercilessly from too many faces over matters of principal and much prefer the path of consideration of circumstance myself. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Alexander, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 9:27:21 AM, you wrote: Full price instead of 50% discount? A Its a buy or die update policy. Wonderful customer service, isn't it! It's no different to the way Microsoft, Lotus and many other software companies work. Eventually a new major version is released and work stops on previous versions. Once the code base becomes too separated there's no point in continuing both. The Linux 2.0 kernel has bugs that no-one is going to fix because major versions have been released. Also it's not really a buy or die policy as 1.6x is an incredibly powerful mail client which most people could continue using. If you want the features of V2 then you'll need to upgrade. When I think of how many versions of Windows I've got through when many of them were just glorified service packs Win95 to Win95SE, Win98 to Win98Se, Win98SE to WinMe. None of those upgrades were more than bugfixes yet we were expected to pay for them. I used TB! for 4 years upgrading everytime a new version was released and was never asked to pay a penny more than my original payment. Also considering how powerful TB! and the cost of most software nowadays Iw as thrilled to only be charged ยฃ20. If version2 is upgraded like V1 was I'll be a happy bunny for many a year to come. -- Jamie Dainton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leaders of the world's richest nations meet in Cancun on September 10th 2003. Oxfam is presenting them with a petition to make trade fair. Be sure your voice is heard. Sign the 'Big Noise' petition to make trade fair at: http://www.maketradefair.com/go/join/?p=omf1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 7:37:19 AM, you wrote: Sunday, September 7, 2003, 9:27:21 AM, you wrote: Full price instead of 50% discount? A Its a buy or die update policy. Wonderful customer service, isn't it! It's no different to the way Microsoft, Lotus and many other software companies work. Eventually a new major version is released and work stops on previous versions. Once the code base becomes too separated there's no point in continuing both. The Linux 2.0 kernel has bugs that no-one is going to fix because major versions have been released. Also it's not really a buy or die policy as 1.6x is an incredibly powerful mail client which most people could continue using. If you want the features of V2 then you'll need to upgrade. When I think of how many versions of Windows I've got through when many of them were just glorified service packs Win95 to Win95SE, Win98 to Win98Se, Win98SE to WinMe. None of those upgrades were more than bugfixes yet we were expected to pay for them. I used TB! for 4 years upgrading everytime a new version was released and was never asked to pay a penny more than my original payment. Also considering how powerful TB! and the cost of most software nowadays Iw as thrilled to only be charged ยฃ20. If version2 is upgraded like V1 was I'll be a happy bunny for many a year to come. I thought my question on the upgrade price would have been simple. I have no problems upgrading to The Bat! v2, I was just wondering if the upgrade price would be higher after 10/31/2003. If so and with my current financial crunch, I would probably buy the v2 now rather than later and actually upgrade to v2 when most of the problem have been worked out. Normally cost would not be a factor in upgrading to The Bat! v2 as it is a great e-mail program. Currently I am using The Bat! 1.62r and its fairly stable with minimal problems. If the current upgrade price of $17.50 goes to, for example, $25.00 (Personal/Private) while the full The Bat! v2 Personal/Private cost is $35.00, I would probably pay the $17.50 now rather than $25.00 later. I also have upgraded throughout the Microsoft Windows versions (95 up to XP) including the DOS versions (1.0 through 6.22). Microsoft always had an upgrade price and full price set on all of their Windows versions. -- Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 2:14:05 PM, Mark wrote: If the current upgrade price of $17.50 goes to, for example, $25.00 (Personal/Private) while the full The Bat! v2 Personal/Private cost is $35.00, I would probably pay the $17.50 now rather than $25.00 later. You don't have to actually install V2 now if you want to wait until the first service release or two - once you have the email with the key, you can save it until you upgrade. This way you can get the lower price upgrade, but continue with version 1.x for the timebeing. Julian -- Using The Bat! v2.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 9:41:38 AM, you wrote: On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 2:14:05 PM, Mark wrote: If the current upgrade price of $17.50 goes to, for example, $25.00 (Personal/Private) while the full The Bat! v2 Personal/Private cost is $35.00, I would probably pay the $17.50 now rather than $25.00 later. You don't have to actually install V2 now if you want to wait until the first service release or two - once you have the email with the key, you can save it until you upgrade. This way you can get the lower price upgrade, but continue with version 1.x for the timebeing. Julian That is probably what I plan to do: I would probably buy the v2 now rather than later and actually upgrade to v2 when most of the problem have been worked out. -- Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hi Alexander, on Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:27:21 +0200GMT (07.09.03, 10:27 +0200GMT here), you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : M What will be the The Bat v2 Upgrade price after 10/31/2003? Full price instead of 50% discount? A Its a buy or die update policy. Wonderful customer service, isn't it! But why? You won't die using 1.62r. It is a well functioning and rather stable mail client, isn't it? My mother would hit me if I laid hands on her 1.61... ;-) -- Cheers Peter 'Yield to temptation. It may not come your way again.' Oscar Wilde Winamp currently playing: - silence - Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 13:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Full price instead of 50% discount? A Its a buy or die update policy. Wonderful customer service, isn't it! It's no different to the way Microsoft, Lotus and many other software companies work. If I want to upgrade from Office97 today I get a discount price on Office XP, same goes for Windows v.whatever and whatnot. After *years* and not within 2 months only. This is what I mean with buy or die. If you don't want to update to v2 within two months, pay the full price, and it came all of a sudden after Ritlabs changed their beta numbering from v1.63xxx to v2.00xxx. I'd like to call that a bit unsensible. And what a lot of people are overseeing is that the v2 license is not one person but one computer. So, if you're using TB on your laptop and your home computer, you need another full license AFAIK. Once the code base becomes too separated there's no point in continuing both. The Linux 2.0 kernel has bugs that no-one is going to fix because major versions have been released. Microsoft is still fixing bugs in IE5, IE5.5, IE5.5SP2, IE6, IE6SP1, and I personally regard v6 as major, same goes for WinNT4, 2000 vs XP. I'd rather expected Microsoft to behave the way Ritlabs do concerning their updates, than the other way around. Also it's not really a buy or die policy as 1.6x is an incredibly powerful mail client which most people could continue using. If you want the features of V2 then you'll need to upgrade. Maybe one day I want to. Maybe (or rather: certainly) this is not within the next two months. Then I have to pay the full price again. I registered because TB is an excellent program and I wanted to support further development, but my personal feeling is that on the other hand I'm not treated with that respect. I used TB! for 4 years upgrading everytime a new version was released and was never asked to pay a penny more than my original payment. Precisely! You're paying $17.50 update fee for four *years* of usage, I'd be asked to pay the same amount after only six *months*! Its a rather unfair treatment of new vs. long time users, and I'm not buying it. Also considering how powerful TB! and the cost of most software nowadays Iw as thrilled to only be charged ยฃ20. I stated it before. I beg your pardon, I don't think it is so hard to understand: I don't need any v2 features right now. Yet I'd like to 1. have the option to a reasonable update fee even after two months (rather than buy-now-or-die) and 2. have the fact regarded that I was using the program not for years, but only months. If version2 is upgraded like V1 was I'll be a happy bunny for many a year to come. If I were using v1 for a couple of years already, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you... -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Artists never thrive in colonies. Ants do. What the budding artist needs is the priviledge of wrestling with his problems in solitude - and now and then a piece of red meat. -- Henry Miller Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Alexander, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 7:01:58 AM, you wrote: A You're paying $17.50 update fee for four *years* of usage, I'd A be asked to pay the same amount after only six *months*! Its a rather A unfair treatment of new vs. long time users, and I'm not buying it. Good grief! You're comparing a $17.50 upgrade fee to the mega bucks that M$ charges for their upgrades? And don't believe for a minute this myth of IE being free. You pay for it many times more than it is worth with every Windows license. Give these guys a break. I would have gladly paid $17.50 for a maintenance contract on v1, but I didn't need to - the upgrades were free! Just skip a couple of grande lattes and you'll have it paid for! -- Best regards, Freddiemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Alexander, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 3:01:58 PM, you wrote: A If I want to upgrade from Office97 today I get a discount price on Office A XP, same goes for Windows v.whatever and whatnot. After *years* and not A within 2 months only. The OfficeXP upgrade will not upgrade Office97 to OfficeXP as Microsoft consider that too large an upgrade to be considered an upgrade. You are forced to buy OfficeXP outright, AFAIK Microsoft upgrades will only upgrade the previous version to the current. A And what a lot of people are overseeing is that the v2 license is not one A person but one computer. So, if you're using TB on your laptop and your A home computer, you need another full license AFAIK. I don't know about this, although it seems to be standard practice for most software companies A Microsoft is still fixing bugs in IE5, IE5.5, IE5.5SP2, IE6, IE6SP1, and I A personally regard v6 as major, same goes for WinNT4, 2000 vs XP. But they're not fixing bugs in many other programs. Win98 has been abandoned and IE5 will eventually be abandoned. A Maybe one day I want to. Maybe (or rather: certainly) this is not within A the next two months. Then I have to pay the full price again. I registered A because TB is an excellent program and I wanted to support further A development, but my personal feeling is that on the other hand I'm not A treated with that respect. I will agree with you on that point. The short time limit to upgrade does seem a little unfair. However, RITLabs are under no obligation to give a discount for an upgrade, so in reality they are actually being fairer than they have to be. A Precisely! You're paying $17.50 update fee for four *years* of usage, I'd A be asked to pay the same amount after only six *months*! Its a rather A unfair treatment of new vs. long time users, and I'm not buying it. Life is unfair and this is an example of it. I actually ended up buying the full licence to ease a guilty conscience. A I stated it before. I beg your pardon, I don't think it is so hard to A understand: I don't need any v2 features right now. Yet I'd like to 1. have A the option to a reasonable update fee even after two months (rather than A buy-now-or-die) Oops. Slight misunderstanding on my part. I thought you were expecting RITLabs to continue releasing bugfixes for 1.6x, which would have been unreasonable. I can see your point, but RITLabs is a business and can run itself however it likes. -- Jamie Dainton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leaders of the world's richest nations meet in Cancun on September 10th 2003. Oxfam is presenting them with a petition to make trade fair. Be sure your voice is heard. Sign the 'Big Noise' petition to make trade fair at: http://www.maketradefair.com/go/join/?p=omf1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 10:01:58 AM, Alexander wrote: A If I want to upgrade from Office97 today I get a discount price on A Office XP, same goes for Windows v.whatever and whatnot. After A *years* and not within 2 months only. And you pay a *lot* more for Microsoft products than you do for TB. I'd rather deal with Ritlabs than MS personally. A This is what I mean with buy or die. If you don't want to update to A v2 within two months, pay the full price, and it came all of a sudden A after Ritlabs changed their beta numbering from v1.63xxx to v2.00xxx. A I'd like to call that a bit unsensible. I think someone pointed out that v2 is 75% new code - that's hardly just a change in beta-numbering. A And what a lot of people are overseeing is that the v2 license is not A one person but one computer. So, if you're using TB on your A laptop and your home computer, you need another full license AFAIK. I just ran the install-files for both v1.62 v2 to check. The wording in both licenses is exactly the same - you are given a license to run the program on one computer at a time. Also it's not really a buy or die policy as 1.6x is an incredibly powerful mail client which most people could continue using. If you want the features of V2 then you'll need to upgrade. A Maybe one day I want to. Maybe (or rather: certainly) this is not A within the next two months. Then I have to pay the full price again. A I registered because TB is an excellent program and I wanted to A support further development, but my personal feeling is that on the A other hand I'm not treated with that respect. I'm in a similar-but-slightly-different position. I'd like to upgrade to v2, though, like you, I'd like to wait for a while so that any bugs can be worked out, to find out what other people have experienced with v2 before I jump. But I can't afford to upgrade right now, so I'll end up paying the full fee in the future. Oh well. That's life. I can't afford a new car today either. Maybe I'll buy one in six months. Maybe the price will have gone up. Maybe they'll have stopped some special offers. I doubt if Ford will care how long I've been driving their products give me a break. I used TB! for 4 years upgrading everytime a new version was released and was never asked to pay a penny more than my original payment. A Precisely! You're paying $17.50 update fee for four *years* of usage, A I'd be asked to pay the same amount after only six *months*! Its a A rather unfair treatment of new vs. long time users, and I'm not A buying it. Look at it this way. You paid your money more recently than a longer-term user. A longer-term user has given more loyalty to the product. In the case of most on this list, they've also given a lot of support to other people using TB. And many of them have participated in beta-testing. So you've both given *something* to Ritlabs that the other hasn't. I fall somewhere in the middle - I've been using TB for about 16 months. Also considering how powerful TB! and the cost of most software nowadays Iw as thrilled to only be charged ยฃ20. A I stated it before. I beg your pardon, I don't think it is so hard to A understand: I don't need any v2 features right now. Yet I'd like to A 1. have the option to a reasonable update fee even after two months A (rather than buy-now-or-die) and 2. have the fact regarded that I was A using the program not for years, but only months. Ritlabs have made an offer to registered users of v1. They didn't have to; you can cite MS Windows all you want, but there are many software companies who don't offer any discount at all for current users when they release new versions. Ritlabs is giving you a break offering you a discount right now; that's actually pretty nice of them, I'm sure if they're reading this thread they're wondering why they bothered. Nobody's forcing you to upgrade, now or later or ever. You can decide what you want to do. Me, I'm just tired of the whining. -- Deborah Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 16:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A You're paying $17.50 update fee for four *years* of usage, I'd A be asked to pay the same amount after only six *months*! Its a rather A unfair treatment of new vs. long time users, and I'm not buying it. Good grief! You're comparing a $17.50 upgrade fee to the mega bucks that M$ charges for their upgrades? Given what you quote from my mail I can't really follow you, and, I beg your pardon, you apparently can't do the math. See, my 6-month old registration copy of TB is worth 8 times more (or something) than the 4-year old registration of Jamie (yup, this is what Marck calls a *bit* hard on new users). Given that, I will stick with v1.x for a very long time until it amortises. ;-) And, I didn't start comparing MS and Lotus and whatnot with TB, that was Jamie Dainton. And don't believe for a minute this myth of IE being free. I never said that, and I try to correct people when they tell me about IE and OE coming for free, believe me... You pay for it many times more than it is worth with every Windows license. I know that, and I'm not using IE but Opera (which, btw. you can update to version7 even now, after it has been released for about one year - thats what I call fair). Give these guys a break. I would have gladly paid $17.50 for a maintenance contract on v1, but I didn't need to - the upgrades were free! I maybe wouldn't be so harsh here if I were using v1.x for the long time it existed (as many of the list participants seem to do, or else I can't understand that everyone is accepting this so easily), but (at least in my imagination) I could *understand* people being embarrassed about the way it is handled... Just skip a couple of grande lattes and you'll have it paid for! Money is not the problem here. Fairness and respect for the existing user base is, at least IMHO, I explained it before. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Non-Reciprocal Law of Expectations: Negative expectations yield negative results. Positive expectations yield negative results. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Jamie Dainton, [JD] wrote: JD I will agree with you on that point. The short time limit to upgrade JD does seem a little unfair. However, RITLabs are under no obligation JD to give a discount for an upgrade, so in reality they are actually JD being fairer than they have to be. The 50% discount until the 31st October seems to be on the upgrade charge, is it not? Or am I mistaken? I hope that I'm not. IOW's, my interpretation is that until the 31st October, you can upgrade at 50% the upgrade charge. Afterwards, you pay the full upgrade charge. If after the 31st of October you have to pay the full licensing fee with no special upgrade charge from v1 to 2 then I find this odd since I've never really seen a time limit put on an upgrade charge in that manner and would question the fairness of it. Usually upgrade discounts aren't offered for major version jumps and this is to protect those regularly paying for upgrades. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 16:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The OfficeXP upgrade will not upgrade Office97 to OfficeXP as Microsoft consider that too large an upgrade to be considered an upgrade. You are forced to buy OfficeXP outright, AFAIK Microsoft upgrades will only upgrade the previous version to the current. The last time I checked, both Office 97 and 2000 were eligible for the update to Office XP, but thats only tiny details in this discussion. A And what a lot of people are overseeing is that the v2 license is not one A person but one computer. So, if you're using TB on your laptop and your A home computer, you need another full license AFAIK. I don't know about this, although it seems to be standard practice for most software companies Well, your experience may differ from mine. :-) I will agree with you on that point. The short time limit to upgrade does seem a little unfair. However, RITLabs are under no obligation to give a discount for an upgrade, so in reality they are actually being fairer than they have to be. I don't think this was the wisest of decisions businessmen can make, but who am I to dare judge that... sigh. A I stated it before. I beg your pardon, I don't think it is so hard to A understand: I don't need any v2 features right now. Yet I'd like to 1. have A the option to a reasonable update fee even after two months (rather than A buy-now-or-die) Oops. Slight misunderstanding on my part. I thought you were expecting RITLabs to continue releasing bugfixes for 1.6x, which would have been unreasonable. I mentioned that only because I find bugs of v1 are fixed in v2 is no valid argument for a update to be paid for (even when in reality it happens all the time), as Marck said in one of his messages (IIRC in the registration woes thread). As I said all the time, this is just my personal feeling about how an honourable business is ran, or rather not. I can see your point, but RITLabs is a business and can run itself however it likes. Yeah, I'm pretty desillusioned already. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Science fiction is a kind of archaeology of the future. -- Clifton Fadiman Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hi Jamie, A And what a lot of people are overseeing is that the v2 license is not one A person but one computer. So, if you're using TB on your laptop and your A home computer, you need another full license AFAIK. JD I don't know about this, although it seems to be standard practice for JD most software companies Before I registered for the first time, I emailed RitLabs, asking if it was ok to put one license on my laptop and desktop (My question was about the synchronize feature, which led to 'do I need 2 licenses to use it'). They assured me it was within the licensing agreement to do so. I would tend to agree with the following statement: Give these guys a break. I would have gladly paid $17.50 for a maintenance contract on v1, but I didn't need to - the upgrades were free! Writing and selling software myself, I can Sympatize. Documentation, for example, unbelievably time consuming to keep updated. I say, give'em the benefit of the doubt, they aren't out to bite our hands, they just haven't documented their intentions very well. -- Caio, Christopher Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm using The Bat! v2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Marck, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 12:10:08 PM, you wrote: N Its a buy or die update policy. Wonderful customer service, N isn't it! MDP Superb. This is a company that has continually enhanced and upgraded MDP a product to extreme levels without charging existing users a penny MDP for five years! I just hope this cashing in on the user base to fund MDP further development enables them to continue giving us the same MDP level of service for the next five years. MDP I think they're very generous to give any kind of upgrade discount MDP at all, considering the amount of time many of us have been using MDP the software without paying extra for improvements. MDP It may seem a bit rough on newer users, but it's not a major problem MDP IMHO. The price could hardly be said to be extortionate. Sure, MDP there's a matter of principal involved, but I've seen many an own MDP nose slashed mercilessly from too many faces over matters of MDP principal and much prefer the path of consideration of circumstance MDP myself. I wholeheartedly agree. I started using The Bat! last November and purchased a licence soon afterwards. I paid the licence fee based on its merits at that time. The opportunity to upgrade at a discounted price is great. Moreover, I'm supporting further development of my preferred mail client. So $17.50 seems a rather small investment considering the likely number of updates and improvements yet to come. M - -- Best regards, Martin Webster The Bat! 2.00 (Windows XP Professional Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP SDK 3.0.2 iQA/AwUBP1tMV1v+PP8p0/caEQLkLwCfTKffJQtRfzOAGyVSLudlSBdGsXsAoIjy ZemdcToSWNvcS5vLkrX0tTof =4P3G -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 16:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A And what a lot of people are overseeing is that the v2 license is not A one person but one computer. So, if you're using TB on your A laptop and your home computer, you need another full license AFAIK. I just ran the install-files for both v1.62 v2 to check. The wording in both licenses is exactly the same - you are given a license to run the program on one computer at a time. I stand corrected, I didn't verify the source. I doubt if Ford will care how long I've been driving their products give me a break. Hmmm... if I go to the same dealer were I bought my last car, I can trade in my old car and get a discount on the new car in addition for being a loyal customer... maybe you're just not smart enough. ;) And, I beg your pardon, I'm trying to raise something like a conscience when you call it whining. Lets get ripped off over over again, we really don't deserve any better. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) You cannot endow even the best machine with initiative; the jolliest steam-roller will not plant flowers. -- Walter Lippman Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Allie, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 4:01:14 PM, you wrote: JD I will agree with you on that point. The short time limit to upgrade JD does seem a little unfair. However, RITLabs are under no obligation JD to give a discount for an upgrade, so in reality they are actually JD being fairer than they have to be. AM The 50% discount until the 31st October seems to be on the upgrade AM charge, is it not? Or am I mistaken? I hope that I'm not. That seems to be the case and after that date you pay the full upgrade charge. AM IOW's, my interpretation is that until the 31st October, you can upgrade AM at 50% the upgrade charge. Afterwards, you pay the full upgrade charge. AM If after the 31st of October you have to pay the full licensing fee with AM no special upgrade charge from v1 to 2 then I find this odd since I've AM never really seen a time limit put on an upgrade charge in that manner AM and would question the fairness of it. Usually upgrade discounts aren't AM offered for major version jumps and this is to protect those regularly AM paying for upgrades. I'm not even sure if we're disagreeing with each other now. The special discount on the upgrade seems a nice gesture and a full upgrade with no time limit seems standard. As far as I can tell RITLabs are actually being fairer than I thought they were. -- Jamie Dainton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leaders of the world's richest nations meet in Cancun on September 10th 2003. Oxfam is presenting them with a petition to make trade fair. Be sure your voice is heard. Sign the 'Big Noise' petition to make trade fair at: http://www.maketradefair.com/go/join/?p=omf1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Martin Webster, [MW] wrote: MW The opportunity to upgrade at a discounted price is great. Moreover, MW I'm supporting further development of my preferred mail client. So MW $17.50 seems a rather small investment considering the likely number MW of updates and improvements yet to come. There's another dimension to this. Originally, I thought the upgrade policy was a simple one which I agreed with. 50% of the upgrade charge to registered v1.x users. Free upgrade for those who purchased their v1.x license within 2 months of the v2 release. It would seem that the upgrade charge is until the 31st of October, after which only a full license may be purchased by both new users and old v1.x users. Is this really the case?? -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 17:01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 50% discount until the 31st October seems to be on the upgrade charge, is it not? Or am I mistaken? I hope that I'm not. IOW's, my interpretation is that until the 31st October, you can upgrade at 50% the upgrade charge. Afterwards, you pay the full upgrade charge. The Ritlabs site says: Within two months from the release date (September 1, 2003 - November 1, 2003) registered users of The Bat! v1.** are eligible to buy The Bat! V.2.** with 50% discount from the current price of V.2.**, regardless of the type and the number of licences of The Bat! v1.** bought before. The upgrade site that is linked to this text lists the update EUR 17.50. The full license is EUR 35. Following your interpretation the update price would be EUR 8.75... If after the 31st of October you have to pay the full licensing fee with no special upgrade charge from v1 to 2 then I find this odd since I've never really seen a time limit put on an upgrade charge in that manner and would question the fairness of it. Thats what I'm doing all the time but apparently no one understands me, doh! (whining indeed now!) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) How on earth are you ever going to explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love? -- Albert Einstein Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 17:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wholeheartedly agree. I started using The Bat! last November and purchased a licence soon afterwards. I paid the licence fee based on its merits at that time. If you registered in Nov-2002 you'll get a free v2 license - at least according to batworld.de (only in german, sorry): http://www.batworld.de/newswriter/article.php?article_file=1062532809.txt (in short, the article says that anyone who registered between Oct7 2002 and Jan5 2003 is eligible for a free update to v2, this has been confirmed in an email from Ritlabs to the site owner) The above link is a follow-up to: http://www.batworld.de/newswriter/article.php?article_file=1062529840.txt -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Arcana Coelestica: Archbishop - A Christian ecclesiastic of a rank superior to that obtained by Christ. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 4:21:31 PM, Alexander wrote: And, I beg your pardon, I'm trying to raise something like a conscience when you call it whining. Lets get ripped off over over again, we really don't deserve any better. I don't think that there will be any winners to this argument. I see TB as representing excellent value for money, and I would happily have paid the full price for the upgrade - it is still a relatively small cost for such a high quality product, and I see my registration fee as a fair return to Ritlabs for their continued investment and development of the product. At the same time, I can see the point you and others are making. If you don't feel that TB represents such good value for money, then you would not be happy with the registration/upgrade fee. I can understand this, even if I do not share it. In the end, I don't think that Ritlabs are going to change their minds, which is their right. After all, they know how much it has cost to develop TB, how much they need to get in in registration fee income, and how much they can generate from new users. The existing user-base represents a large potential source of income, and I can see why Ritlabs would want to tap this. It might seem unfair, but perhaps that is just business ecomomics. Having said that, if TB cost $150, then I would probably be arguing with you - which just shows that it is all down to perceived value! Thinking about it, Ritlabs are probably trying to save admin costs with the current upgrade policy. A system based on the date of original registration would be very costly to administer, whereas having a fixed upgrade period makes it much easier. After the end of the initial period, everyone gets a new licence, so no need to check existing serial numbers and licence keys. If this method helps to keep the cost down, then I am all for it. Julian -- Using The Bat! v2.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
It may seem a bit rough on newer users, but it's not a major problem IMHO. The price could hardly be said to be extortionate. I have neither the patience nor the skill to work with a program that is not totally refined, or perhaps even a beta. However, I am on limited income and the half price is certainly much more reachable than the full price. Do people recommend that I obtain the download, pay for the upgrade, and remain with 1.62 until those who know far more than me have worked out the kinks? Elaine Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
If the current upgrade price of $17.50 goes to, for example, $25.00 (Personal/Private) while the full The Bat! v2 Personal/Private cost is $35.00, I would probably pay the $17.50 now rather than $25.00 later. Precisely. Not only would I, I would have to, because I will not be able to afford the full price *if* people think I need the new program later. Elaine Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 17:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lets get ripped off over over again, we really don't deserve any better. I don't think that there will be any winners to this argument. That was a very sarcastic comment rather than a valuable argument and I regret writing it already. I see TB as representing excellent value for money Me too! and I would happily have paid the full price for the upgrade Maybe thats my problem (dunno;) - what *is* the full price for the upgrade? That information is missing. If the current update price of EUR 17.50 is 50% off, then the full upgrade price is EUR 35 - which is the price of a new full license - that leaves me confused and is the origin of all my angry ranting. At the same time, I can see the point you and others are making. If you don't feel that TB represents such good value for money, then you would not be happy with the registration/upgrade fee. I can understand this, even if I do not share it. As I already said - I don't mind paying the update. I do mind its limited time offer, and that all previous registrations are treated equally no matter when they were made. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) First Law of Revision: Information necessitiating a change of design will be conveyed to the designer after - and only after - the plans are complete. (Often called the 'Now They Tell Us' Law) Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hi Alexander, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 5:27:07 PM, you wrote: A Maybe thats my problem (dunno;) - what *is* the full price for the A upgrade? That information is missing. If the current update price of EUR A 17.50 is 50% off, then the full upgrade price is EUR 35 - which is the A price of a new full license - that leaves me confused and is the origin of A all my angry ranting. Just to add my experience. I registered The Bat V1.x on the 8th July 2003 and paid 31.67 UK pounds including Tax for a single Business License via SoftJam in the UK. On the 2nd September I emailed SoftJam telling then when I purchased V1.X and asking them if I was entitled to a free upgrade, due to short time span since my purchase. This was the reply :- [quote] Altova are offering 50% off the price of The Bat! version 2 to all registered users of version 1. This is valid only for 2 months. They are not offering any free upgrades. The upgrade is available for ordering from our web site. [end quote] The upgrade cost me 15.80 UK pounds inc. Tax. Regards Mark -- Mark Adams | Computer Systems Acemake Computers | Network Support Taming Technology | Bespoke Programming I have read your book and much like it. - Moses Hadas (1900-1966) Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Sorry, folks, have now read today's thread, realize I freaked and panicked, that some here are considering what I am considering, a buy-now, use-later. How flakey is the new release? Elaine Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Alexander, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 4:43:58 PM, you wrote: A 07-Sep-2003 17:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wholeheartedly agree. I started using The Bat! last November and purchased a licence soon afterwards. I paid the licence fee based on its merits at that time. A If you registered in Nov-2002 you'll get a free v2 license - at least A according to batworld.de (only in german, sorry): A http://www.batworld.de/newswriter/article.php?article_file=1062532809.txt This is news to me... not that I'm too concerned. However, it would be really helpful if someone from Ritlabs can clarify matters. A (in short, the article says that anyone who registered between Oct7 2002 A and Jan5 2003 is eligible for a free update to v2, this has been confirmed A in an email from Ritlabs to the site owner) ... a little late for me. Unless I can donate my free upgrade to someone else... M - -- Best regards, Martin Webster The Bat! 2.00 (Windows XP Professional Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP SDK 3.0.2 iQA/AwUBP1thh1v+PP8p0/caEQIdjQCgjQfdFUmPF28p59bv+SlvLYOOpyEAoKzP lUx+cnyWVe9TeToS2P7xABg3 =qLzt -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
A The Ritlabs site says: You're right, it appears as if the update offer will be completely gone and that is just ridiculous for a couple of reasons: - The differences between 1.62 (especially 1.63beta) and 2.0 are not that huge after all. Of course a lot changed since 1.0, but that doesn't help the users who registered in July. To make it fair they should be allowed to upgrade any time later, when 2.0 offers enough improvement for them to be worth the upgrade. And don't anyone tell me that v2 has been 75% (or completely as Ritlabs announec months or years ago) newly programmed. Some same stupid bugs persist (like the line-wrap and the consequence that you can't Ctrl-Backspace over lines) and the program looks pretty much the same - V2 is still pretty much a beta, just released to keep the announced date. I just installed it for a friend on a WinXP machine: The menu bar background stays white after having clicked on a menu, and then there were a couple of crashes (access violations), e.g. when purging folders. For more see TBBETA list. - It's something new that other companies haven't dared before. In the good old days updates where something like 20% of the price of a product. Once you bought it you had a license and the update price was relative to the percentage of new features (or something like that). Then big companies like MS came along who had to sell updates in stores and the update prices went up to 50% to 70% of the original product's price. Bad enough, but now the update availability is limited to two months while the product is not even stable. Sorry, that's too much, I'm not gonna pay it. I don't need the update now and if in a few months, when I think I'll want it, I'll have to pay the full price again, I'll just go get another email program like Mozilla. There at least I have an open developers' policy with a roadmap and multi-platform support. The advantage of The Bat are worth a price, but that's over the line, sorry. The argument that Ritlabs is a company and is free to do what they want doesn't count. Of course they can do what they want, but they have to live with the users' opionions and/or reactions to that. (no to get into the ethics stuff) I can't believe that there are people who take it for a fair option to buy the upgrade now and only start using it in a couple of months. Think about it, how ridiculous is that? Guti Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Etm, [E] wrote: E Sorry, folks, have now read today's thread, realize I freaked and E panicked, that some here are considering what I am considering, a E buy-now, use-later. How flakey is the new release? I wouldn't describe the new release as flakey if all you use are POP3 accounts. It's just that it's possible that the major enhancements may not interest you. These are: Full IMAP support which is completely new and apparently full of wrinkles. :) Alternative Plain Text Editor and HTML Editor. These may not interest you. PGP/MIME as well as PGP 78 support. A Scheduler. If you think you will or may have interest in these features then I strongly suggest upgrading since the current functionality from v1.62 is preserved and improved upon in some instances. Of course there'll be a few having problems as will always be the case with a major upgrade. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 18:22:22, ETM (State of Virginia) wrote: Do people recommend that I obtain the download, pay for the upgrade, and remain with 1.62 until those who know far more than me have worked out the kinks? What about paying for the upgrade now, but wait with actual upgrade until the bugs are sorted out? -- Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/ http://deepthought.ena.si/ There is an easier way to do it. -- Iles's Law Corollaries: 1. When looking directly at the easier way, especially for long periods, you will not see it. 2. Neither will Iles. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
I can't believe that there are people who take it for a fair option to buy the upgrade now and only start using it in a couple of months. Think about it, how ridiculous is that? BIG-TIME ridiculous, but I am so accustomed to being squeezed by producers of almost-anything that I react as I usually do, try to do what's best for me while being squeezed. I haven't sprung yet, I also know Mozilla is out there and doing pretty well by its users. It's just that I like TheBat! (my version) and would dislike giving it up on principle. Elaine Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 5:49:37 PM, Carsten Guthardt-Schulz wrote: I can't believe that there are people who take it for a fair option to buy the upgrade now and only start using it in a couple of months. Think about it, how ridiculous is that? If you believe that Ritlabs are a private company, and are free to do what they want, then this approach seems to be sensible, as they are not likely to change their minds! You don't have to want TB v2.x now, but if you think you will after October 2003, then it is still worth paying the $17.50 now. Perhaps the people who have upgraded to v2 and paid the reduced price registration fee are getting a discount for beta-testing the full v2 release? Julian -- Using The Bat! v2.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 18:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: buy-now, use-later That sounds like socialist central planned economy to me... -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Questions are never indiscreet. Answers sometimes are. -- Oscar Wilde Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Carsten Guthardt-Schulz, [CGS] wrote: CGS - The differences between 1.62 (especially 1.63beta) Stop there. 1.63beta was not a release version. It's unfair to compare v2 to it when speaking of upgrades. CGS and 2.0 are not that huge after all. There are many differences. If you aren't interested in them, that doesn't mean they aren't there. CGS Of course a lot changed since 1.0, but that doesn't help the users CGS who registered in July. Ritlabs put a 2 month limit on those who will receive free upgrades in terms of time between v1.x registration and the v2 release. This is understandable and is a reality. I've been hit by this limit with registration more negatively than positive. This is just how it is. CGS To make it fair they should be allowed to upgrade any time later, Now *this*, I agree with provide the upgrade is between v1.x and v2. Ritlabs took a long time to ask for an upgrade charge for a lot of the enhancements since I started using it. The recent licensees really shouldn't suffer for this. CGS when 2.0 offers enough improvement for them to be worth the CGS upgrade. And don't anyone tell me that v2 has been 75% (or CGS completely as Ritlabs announec months or years ago) newly CGS programmed. But it has. :) CGS Some same stupid bugs persist (like the line-wrap What line wrap bug? CGS and the consequence that you can't Ctrl-Backspace over lines) and CGS the program looks pretty much the same Are you speaking of MicroEd here? If so, I doubt that they've done anything with MicroEd since there's really nothing wrong with it. It works differently, that's all. The alternative editor will likely work more like how you'd expect it to. CGS - V2 is still pretty much a beta, just released to keep the announced date. CGS I just installed it for a friend on a WinXP machine: The menu bar CGS background stays white after having clicked on a menu, and then there were CGS a couple of crashes (access violations), e.g. when purging folders. For CGS more see TBBETA list. Except for a memory consumption problem, it works fine here. However, memory issues and other bugs occur with full release applications all the time. CGS The argument that Ritlabs is a company and is free to do what they CGS want doesn't count. Of course they can do what they want, but they CGS have to live with the users' opionions and/or reactions to that. CGS (no to get into the ethics stuff) I agree with you here. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Julian, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 6:14:14 PM, you wrote: JBL Perhaps the people who have upgraded to v2 and paid the reduced price JBL registration fee are getting a discount for beta-testing the full v2 JBL release? That seems an extremely sensible suggestion -- Jamie Dainton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leaders of the world's richest nations meet in Cancun on September 10th 2003. Oxfam is presenting them with a petition to make trade fair. Be sure your voice is heard. Sign the 'Big Noise' petition to make trade fair at: http://www.maketradefair.com/go/join/?p=omf1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
07-Sep-2003 19:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps the people who have upgraded to v2 and paid the reduced price registration fee are getting a discount for beta-testing the full v2 release? So, you're implying that the current v2 release in reality is yet another beta version? Else I didn't understand what you wrote. :-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Prediction is having the ability to prove that you are right when saying that which you really aren't sure of. -- Todd H. Knight Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello ETM (State of Virginia), ETM (State of Virginia) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Sunday, September 7, 2003 at 6:41:55 PM ESoV Sorry, folks, have now read today's thread, realize I freaked and ESoV panicked, that some here are considering what I am considering, a ESoV buy-now, use-later. How flakey is the new release? ESoV Elaine I installed version 2.00 straight after it came available on september 1st and have not had any problems so far. -- Best regards, Cyber Touristmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sunday, September 7, 2003 - 8:36:39 PM === Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ESoV ESoV Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: ESoV http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
AM Stop there. 1.63beta was not a release version. It's unfair to compare AM v2 to it when speaking of upgrades. That's why I wrote it in brackets. AM What line wrap bug? AM Are you speaking of MicroEd here? Yes, I was. Would make sense to fix it, especially as the alternative editor doesn't have this problem, so they must somehow acknowledge this being not how it is supposed to be. just image someone who has a 70 character wide display reading a message written with MicroEd and broken at 75 characters. Just tried the alternative editor: Why does the text I type suddenly appear in light red, after I have inserted a quote? And btw: when is *this* finally gonna appear bold? :-) I guess we agree on the two main subjects: - Time-limiting the update offer is a bad idea - V2 could have used a little more testing before being released. The combination of the two makes it worse... Guti Guti Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
CGS Some same stupid bugs persist (like the line-wrap AM What line wrap bug? Almost forgot one more on that subject: In the editor (even the new one!) the View/Original Text option is still completely useless in most cases, because the windows doesn't momorize the size of the window part with the original text. Due to my editor window not being needlessly huge, the original text would always cover the full window, preventing me from accessing the space where I actually type. Is there any solution for that by now? Guti Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Carsten Guthardt-Schulz, [CGS] wrote: AM What line wrap bug? Are you speaking of MicroEd here? CGS Yes, I was. Would make sense to fix it, especially as the CGS alternative editor doesn't have this problem, Neither editor has a problem where this is concerned. One works differently from the other. CGS so they must somehow acknowledge this being not how it is supposed CGS to be. No. They acknowledge that there are quite a few users out there who wish to enjoy TB!'s wealth of features without having to use an editor that works like MicroEd does. So TB! now offers a new editor that works in a way that other users prefer. It's not offered as a fix for MicroEd which works extremely well in its own way. MicroEd works in a way you find tedious or dislike ... it's buggy. V2 offers features you aren't interested in or find worth your while not a significant upgrade to from v1.62. Am I detecting a pattern here or is it my imagination. CGS just image someone who has a 70 character wide display reading a CGS message written with MicroEd and broken at 75 characters. Wrap at 70 characters then. The standard is 72 anyway. CGS Just tried the alternative editor: Why does the text I type CGS suddenly appear in light red, after I have inserted a quote? A quote? What do you mean? -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Carsten Guthardt-Schulz, [CGS] wrote: CGS Almost forgot one more on that subject: In the editor (even the new CGS one!) the View/Original Text option is still completely useless in CGS most cases, because the windows doesn't momorize the size of the CGS window part with the original text. This is an old one, yes. CGS Due to my editor window not being needlessly huge, the original CGS text would always cover the full window, preventing me from CGS accessing the space where I actually type. CGS Is there any solution for that by now? Other than increasing your window size? No. :) Complaints about this feature along this line are quite rare and I suspect this being the case is why nothing has been done about it. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Allie, ...since the current functionality from v1.62 is preserved and improved upon in some instances. Do you know if all macros and QTs used in 1.62 will work just the same in 2.0 or some may need to be adapted? -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.62i Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Mau, [M] wrote: M Do you know if all macros and QTs used in 1.62 will work just the M same in 2.0 or some may need to be adapted? Some will need to be changed. One of the popular ones that needs changing is the boxquoting macro. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
AM Neither editor has a problem where this is concerned. One works AM differently from the other. Or you could say they both have a problem. They point is that they could have either made the editor customizable enough or allow an external editor, instead of adding a second one. Now you're probably gonna tell me that noone needs that or that the choice that exists is enough. Wouldn't be the first discussion where you defend Ritlabs and TB beyond a point that is reasonable for me. Go ahead and try a more critical approach and you'll see that there are lots of things that could have been done better. There are many features that I'm very happy with as well. Let's try to keep the balance. AM Am I detecting a pattern here or is it my imagination. It's your approach. AM Wrap at 70 characters then. The standard is 72 anyway. This doesn't help, because I'm not only reading my own messages. Or someone with a 67 character display will come along and complain again. Do you know what I mean? A text will look like this... AM A quote? What do you mean? I inserted text with paste as quotation and when I continued writing below it the text colour was light read. My greeting was still in black, though. I can even reproduce it: I mark a block in a message in the preview pane, press F4 and there it is: everything I write unter the quote appears in light red. Doesn't happen all the time, I'm not sure what it depends on. Maybe only when the reply-template for the folder contains %Quotes %Cursor in the first two lines. As soon as there is text on top of the first quote it doesn't occur. Guti Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Allie, Some will need to be changed. One of the popular ones that needs changing is the boxquoting macro. If boxquoting was the only one... I use a lot of QTs (40+), I wonder how many will need tweaking. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.62i Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Carsten Guthardt-Schulz, [CGS] wrote: CGS Or you could say they both have a problem. They point is that they CGS could have either made the editor customizable enough or allow an CGS external editor, instead of adding a second one. They looked at the customisation of MicroEd, found it to be too difficult short of a rewrite, and decided to simply offer an alternative editor. If you're using an external editor, you wouldn't be able to work with quick templates while editing, insert cookies or paste as quotations using the special quote prefixes. It therefore seems nicer to offer an integrated editor, doesn't it? Offering an external editor as the only alternative would likely be more frowned upon. Offering both, well that's something to consider and they may very well do. CGS Now you're probably gonna tell me that noone needs that or that the CGS choice that exists is enough. I wouldn't say that. CGS Wouldn't be the first discussion where you defend Ritlabs and TB CGS beyond a point that is reasonable for me. I always try to be reasonable, but if you don't feel that way what can I say. :) CGS Go ahead and try a more critical approach and you'll see that there CGS are lots of things that could have been done better. There are many CGS features that I'm very happy with as well. Let's try to keep the CGS balance. I don't see the need to start generalising here. You said there's little difference between v1.62 and v2. I disagreed and I think I have valid grounds for that. You said MicroEd is buggy. I disagreed and said that it's not really buggy but it just works differently. Ritlabs acknowledged that many did not wish to use an editor that works differently, so thankfully, they've offered an alternative that's also integrated, so that those interested in an alternative editor can use one while at the same time, enjoy the benefits of an integrated editor. On a general note, I do agree that there are things that could be done better in TB! and that it's far from perfect. Surprise! :) I'm not at all hesitant to make such a declaration. I've often criticized functionality in TB! and requested modifications, new features etc. AM Wrap at 70 characters then. The standard is 72 anyway. CGS This doesn't help, because I'm not only reading my own messages. Or CGS someone with a 67 character display will come along and complain CGS again. Do you know what I mean? A text will look like this... You will never please everyone. How can you expect to please someone whose viewer will not display more than 60 characters per line?? If you use *any* client/editor and set it to wrap at 75 characters, it will look like that when viewed in a window that will accommodate only 70 characters per line. If you don't wrap your text it will appear as very long lines in most client viewers, since most client viewers will display the text formatted as it was sent. They will wrap only when the text hits the right edge of the window. For my viewer, that's at 130 characters which is uncomfortable to read. Because of this, articles on netiquette recommend that you wrap the text you send, ideally at 72 characters or less. It's far more likely that you'll find someone able to read your text wrapped at 75 characters than one who cannot. It's far more likely that if you don't wrap the text you send, your recipient will find your lines of text too long to read. AM A quote? What do you mean? CGS I inserted text with paste as quotation and when I continued CGS writing below it the text colour was light read. Aren't quotations normally coloured differently? CGS My greeting was still in black, though. Not a quotation. CGS I can even reproduce it: I mark a block in a message in the preview CGS pane, press F4 and there it is: everything I write unter the quote CGS appears in light red. Doesn't happen all the time, I'm not sure CGS what it depends on. Maybe only when the reply-template for the CGS folder contains %Quotes %Cursor Upon experimenting with the alternative editor, I see that if the cursor is at the end of a block of quoted material and you hit enter to get to a new line and start typing, the new text has the same colour as the quoted text. We noted this a long time ago and reported it. I see that it hasn't been fixed. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hallo MAU, On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:16:05 +0200GMT (7-9-03, 23:16 +0200, where I live), you wrote: Some will need to be changed. One of the popular ones that needs changing is the boxquoting macro. M If boxquoting was the only one... I use a lot of QTs (40+), I wonder how M many will need tweaking. There are more I guess. My set of reply templates needs to be overhauled seriously. Stripped the one for this list to it's bare bones, since it was really messing up my quotes. (Instead of cleaning them) Haven't had the time to really check the problems. -- Groetjes, Roelof Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
AM You said there's little difference between v1.62 and v2. I disagreed AM You said MicroEd is buggy. I disagreed I didn't say either one. What I made were much more general statements. That's why it doesn't help that you pick on the details: Even if the two-editor solution was a good one (what we could argue about) - that was just an example, not my statement! AM I do agree that there are things that could be done AM better in TB! and that it's far from perfect. Surprise! :) I'm not at AM all hesitant to make such a declaration. I've often criticized AM functionality in TB! and requested modifications, new features etc. There you even agree with my statement about persisting bugs (or functionality / long-requested modifications). You don't see the editor as one of them - fine, it was just an example, replace it with anything else you find appropriate. AM You will never please everyone. How can you expect to please someone AM whose viewer will not display more than 60 characters per line?? If you don't wrap your text (except for paragraphs): The client's display will then wrap it correctly. Remains the quoting to be solved, which leads to the discussion how a program should quote: Wrap the quote or leave it as is and only use one at the beginning of each paragraph? And what about initials? AM If you don't wrap your text it will appear as very long lines in most AM client viewers, That's why the viewer wraps it, and so does The Bat. Just adjust your viewer window to the size you want it. AM We noted this a long time ago and reported it. I see that AM it hasn't been fixed. See what I mean with buggy editor ;-)) Guti Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Roelof, There are more I guess. My set of reply templates needs to be overhauled seriously. Then that is enough for me to not upgrade. I don't care about IMAP, PGP/MIME or HTML, why should I upgrade if I may have to overhaul (as you say) my QTs and templates? -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.62i Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Carsten Guthardt-Schulz, [CGS] wrote: CGS I didn't say either one. What I made were much more general statements. CGS That's why it doesn't help that you pick on the details: Even if the CGS two-editor solution was a good one (what we could argue about) - that was CGS just an example, not my statement! Well, usually, someone will back up judgements or assessments with examples of why they came up with them. It helps to add substance and credibility to those judgements. If your examples aren't good ones, then you're in trouble. :) I hope you understand this. CGS There you even agree with my statement about persisting bugs (or CGS functionality / long-requested modifications). You don't see the CGS editor as one of them - fine, it was just an example, replace it CGS with anything else you find appropriate. Ok. Let me give examples of why with each little problem you mention there have been nice enhancements. :) - The preview pane has been reworked. You can now place your attachments bar where ever you like. You may even hide it and your attachments appear as a button in the header bar. You can now change the icons in the header bar to small or large. I had been waiting for that for a long time. :) - Manual folder maintenance is now easier with the folder maintenance center. Go to Folder menu and hit Maintenance. - You can now select via the ticker which folders you wish it to show. You do this by right clicking the ticker and selecting 'Folders'. - The editor now packs a 'SmarWrap' function where it will reflow quoted text when you generate a reply. - You may now configure TB! to display headers in the header bar and editor header fields separate and apart from those already hard coded. Go to View - Message Header - Edit Items. - You can now suppress the error sounds during mail checks when you aren't connected to the internet. - You can now quote selected text when replying to all. Select your text, right click the message viewer and go to the message submenu. - You've now got anti-spam plugin support These are some of the nice little enhancements that come to mind. These have little to do with the really major enhancments that have some saying 'So What'. There have been bug fixes as well. Some of the fabled problems with the CC being stuck during mail checks have been sorted out. The same for the fabled problems with TB! redownloading messages after a sudden disconnection. There are others too. After all that's said, it's difficult to agree that it's not worthy of being called a major upgrade because there a few persistent bugs to be sorted out amidst all the changes for the positive. CGS If you don't wrap your text (except for paragraphs): The client's CGS display will then wrap it correctly. Most client displays will window wrap it, which is unacceptable for most client displays. CGS Remains the quoting to be solved, which leads to the discussion how CGS a program should quote: Wrap the quote or leave it as is and only CGS use one at the beginning of each paragraph? All this has been looked at. No need to reinvent the wheel on this. If you wish to please as many of your recipients as possible then use the quote prefix '' and wrap your lines at 72 characters. CGS And what about initials? This isn't widely supported yet, so I use it only when I'm sure the recipients client will handle it correctly. My reply templates are rigged to do this sensibly through the use of an %IF regex macro. AM If you don't wrap your text it will appear as very long lines in most AM client viewers, CGS That's why the viewer wraps it, and so does The Bat. Just adjust your CGS viewer window to the size you want it. If I adjust my viewer to window wrap at the width I want it, I will not have my message list at the width I want it. The message list is above my message viewer. I wish to see a certain amount of columns. I can't make the window too narrow or else I'll not be able to see all my message list columns. I'm grateful that most, including non-TB! users, wrap their text and not send it unwrapped. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Alexander, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 11:43:58 AM, you wrote: A (in short, the article says that anyone who registered between Oct7 2002 A and Jan5 2003 is eligible for a free update to v2, this has been confirmed A in an email from Ritlabs to the site owner) A The above link is a follow-up to: A http://www.batworld.de/newswriter/article.php?article_file=1062529840.txt I am afraid I must point out that I registered exactly two months - one day from the release of V2.00 and I contacted the author I was told that The update cost was Obligatory This is documented in this forum under the title of thread of Amnesty So they are at least not in the US honoring that policy. -- Best regards, dangermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP SDK 3.0.2 iQA/AwUBP1vftXrWNKgp50M4EQKDygCfWFcoJyxd5FsAU5tXL2M99Oell2IAnRfW GyM/7XqIbtAAlvZOPvekPvlT =EV4g -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 9:47:39 PM, danger h wrote: dh I am afraid I must point out that I registered exactly two months - dh one day from the release of V2.00 and I contacted the author I was dh told that The update cost was Obligatory This is documented in dh this forum under the title of thread of Amnesty So they are at dh least not in the US honoring that policy. It's my understanding that it isn't a policy, but rather that inaccurate information was posted on the German website during that period of time, saying that those who registered TB v1. would get v2 free, that Ritlabs are therefore honouring that. Others, who were never promised a free update, are getting the 50% discount, which *is* the policy. -- Deborah Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Sunday, September 7, 2003, 5:22:22 PM, ETM wrote: ESoV I have neither the patience nor the skill to work with a program ESoV that is not totally refined, or perhaps even a beta. However, I ESoV am on limited income and the half price is certainly much more ESoV reachable than the full price. Do people recommend that I obtain ESoV the download, pay for the upgrade, and remain with 1.62 until ESoV those who know far more than me have worked out the kinks? Elaine, Unless you are going to be using IMAP accounts (where there still appear to be problems) I can't see a reason for not going for the upgrade now to be honest. Even if you don't want to use the extra features such as the html editor or the scheduler it's still worth upgrading I feel. Version 2 runs faster for me, has the new integrated maintenance centre, and has the option to use spam filter plugins if you want to (plus various bug fixes we're told). I've had no real problems with using this version. -- Cheers, Anne Flying high with The Bat! v2.00.6 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Deborah, Sunday, September 7, 2003, 10:48:13 PM, you wrote: DW On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 9:47:39 PM, danger h wrote: DW It's my understanding that it isn't a policy, but rather that inaccurate DW information was posted on the German website during that period of time, DW saying that those who registered TB v1. would get v2 free, that DW Ritlabs are therefore honouring that. Others, who were never promised a DW free update, are getting the 50% discount, which *is* the policy. I think the issue I am objecting to is there is no clear policy stated and others have received free updates, -- Best regards, dangermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, 10:52:58 PM, danger h wrote: dh I think the issue I am objecting to is there is no clear policy dh stated and others have received free updates, I think the policy's clear. Registered users of v1 will get a 50% discount on the cost of v2, until the end of October. Very simple. There have been some exceptions made for those who registered after being informed (via the German website) that v2 would be available to them free. That seems like a perfectly reasonable exception - a promise was made, Ritlabs are fulfilling that promise, even though they didn't intend to make it in the first place. -- Deborah Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 00:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AM You will never please everyone. How can you expect to please someone AM whose viewer will not display more than 60 characters per line?? If you don't wrap your text (except for paragraphs): The client's display will then wrap it correctly. Remains the quoting to be solved, which leads to the discussion how a program should quote: Wrap the quote or leave it as is and only use one at the beginning of each paragraph? And what about initials? AK-Mail (which I've been using before TB) works that way. It doesn't work out. Most mailers add hard wraps. It worked smoothly only in an group of people who all used AK-Mail *and* had all disabled hard wrapping. Leave alone the quotes, and oh my, dull programs that don't wrap lines to fit the display... The only permanent solution would be to use HTML mail with correct formatting P and /P for paragraphs... but personally, I'd rather have hard wrapped plaintext mails than HTML. :-) And seriously... displays with less than 60 columns? How oldskool-ish. :) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) From whence then could arise the solitary and strange conceit, that the almighty, who had millions of worlds equally dependant on his protection, should quit the care of all the rest, because they say one woman and one man had eaten an apple! -- Thomas Paine Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 03:47, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am afraid I must point out that I registered exactly two months - one day from the release of V2.00 and I contacted the author I was told that The update cost was Obligatory This is documented in this forum under the title of thread of Amnesty So they are at least not in the US honoring that policy. Yes, I read that post. If I were you in that special case, I by now had TheBat deinstalled, sent them their license mail with a friendly note that they shall put it... well, somewhere, and be off using Firebird, Sylpheed, or something else Open Source. I really mean it. I've always been a supporter of shareware and innovative programs that are marketed directly off the web and all that, and I've registered a lot of programs even though I could live with their nagscreens and limitations, but such a lousy arrogant behaviour really makes me think if its worth it. Just my 0.02 Euro. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) We can neither put back the clock nor slow down our forward speed, and as we are already flying pilotless, on instrument controls, it is even too late to ask where we are going. -- Igor Stravinsky Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
08-Sep-2003 04:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dh I think the issue I am objecting to is there is no clear policy dh stated and others have received free updates, I think the policy's clear. Registered users of v1 will get a 50% discount on the cost of v2, until the end of October. Very simple. Haven't you read that people on this very list are getting free updates since they registered two months from the release of v2? Where is that written down? Nowhere? Aha... -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Hane's Law: There is no limit as to how bad things can get. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v2 Upg Price of $17.50 until October 31, then what?
Hello Alexander, On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:54:54 +0200 GMT (08/09/2003, 11:54 +0700 GMT), Alexander wrote: I think the policy's clear. Registered users of v1 will get a 50% discount on the cost of v2, until the end of October. Very simple. Haven't you read that people on this very list are getting free updates since they registered two months from the release of v2? Where is that written down? Nowhere? Aha... I also haven't read this. Or I must be getting old - let me find my Gingko Biloba. Hm. Can you point me to a mid saying that anybody got a free key because he registered within two months from the release of v2? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Money can't buy happiness but it can certainly rent it for a couple of hours. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.00.6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
