Re: [Vo]:New Thermal Conversion Material
Jones, Terry, In regards to: It's enough to make you believe in witch doctors! Heh... I wuz think'in the same thing. ;-) Just to be clear on this for the millionth time. I'm not endorsing the WD files. The transcripts what they are, warts and all. It remains to be seen if the information proves to be useful, or not. Personally, I'd like to go against what seems to be the WD's prediction that Rossi needs at least another year of futzing round to do before his e-cats area ready for prime time. What I'm personally hoping for is that Rossi Defkalion will still be able to unveil real commercial products by this October. Granted, it's likely they may still be clueless as to why they work the way they do. Therefore, it's likely the first roll-out of products may not be terribly powerful or impressive, but perhaps they will work as-advertised. SAFETY WILL BE THE PRIMARY GOAL TO ACHIEVE. That's my hope. Perhaps within a year or so Defkalion will begin to finally acquire a preliminary understanding of the particle physics involved. The transcripts imply the Rossi Effect involves some interesting subatomic particle generation involving the outer electron shells of atoms belonging to certain alloys rapidly changing state from solid, to liquid, and gas and vice versa. If Defkalion can get a better theoretical handle on the physics involved it seems sensible for me to assume it will soon open up the doors to greater energy production on the order of several magnitudes. Could also blow up the planet if we are careless. Brave new world. OTOH, perhaps the transcripts are nothing more than just a good Ski-fi story! Maybe we should hope they are. It's all Greek to me. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi responds to movie professor and Peter Ekstrom's analysis
From Angela: no, they measured it a bit away, but still in Bologna. I you want the precise position, I may tell you that later, I have access to all the historic weather data. I think it is the airport there. Meteorology was my business for a long time. Every station transmits the local air pressure and adds the lacking pressure that comes from local height above sea level. See wikipedia barometric formula for details, its about 1 hPa per 8 m. If every station of the world would simply transmit local air pressure, you would not be able to draw the ground pressure charts. All values are sl-values. It looks like some are seriously looking into altitude and historical weather pattern data... looking for clues in operational behavior. This is a daunting task. Good luck in your endeavors. Only time will tell if research into this matter proves to be revealing... or not as the case may be. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Analysis of e-Cat test by E. Storms
I was always taught that, technically speaking, steam is an invisible gas. However, most of us quite naturally tend to only notice the clouds of water vapor condensing out from the invisible steam as it cools. We tend to incorrectly associate, in the visual sense, those tiny suspended condensed droplets of water as steam. I continue to make this visualization mistake all the time even today, as do most of us, simply because it's convenient to do so, even though technically speaking I know it's inaccurate. To be honest I think the latest semantics battle over the definition of what steam really is, is now in danger of turning into silly pointless argument - is the steam wet or is it dry. Josh, Correct me if I'm wrong but I gather you believe (or are convinced of the fact) that the videos you viewed proved that tiny suspended condensed water droplets (mist) was observed being expelled directly FROM WITHIN the end of black hose from Rossi's e-cat test. In other words I gather you are arguing from the premise that the steam already contained suspended droplets of condense water within the black hose, and through guilt by association, there must have also been condensed water vapor within the chimney of the e-cat prior to the water-gas mixture exiting into the black hose. Is this an accurate assumption on my part? As for me, I was under the impression (an impression that admittedly could be wrong) that those who looked closely at the end of the black hose noticed that the first signs of condensation of tiny suspended water droplets were observed to have formed OUTSIDE of the end of hose... let's say, maybe, about quarter of an inch or so from the tip. Can someone tell me if this is this an accurate assumption on my part or not? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Feedback, formally - Analysis of e-Cat test by E. Storms
Off topic: Steven, I sent you an email, did you receive it? Daniel, If you sent it to my gmail account... no I don't have it. If you sent it to a non-gmail address I won't get it till I get home. I don't tend to access my personal accounts at work. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Analysis of e-Cat test by E. Storms
From Josh: I'm arguing that if dry steam were coming out of the ecat (corresponding to 5 kW total power), that most of it would survive to the end of the hose, because I don't think more than a few hundred watts could be radiated by the hose. And that what comes out of that hose is completely inconsistent with 4 or 5 kW of steam enthalpy. It's far less even than what you get out of a 2 kW steam cleaner shown on youtube and referenced here previously. Instead, I would judge the output to be more consistent with a few hundred watts of power (1 kW tops) over and above the power needed to heat the water. This is not based so much on whether it's visible at the end of the hose, but on the speed and volume of the gas, once it does become visible. And in the case of the Lewan run, on the amount of bubbling when the hose is held under water (not much). You give technical reasons for why you have arrived at your conclusions, but I don't feel you have answered the specifics of my original question. I will therefore rephrase it: Do you know if the gas being expelled from the black hose showed any signs of having started to condense into water droplets PRIOR to exiting the end of the hose? IOW, was the observed gas totally invisible at the end of the black hose, or was some condensation (mist) observed directly exiting the hose. My understanding was that the gas was completely invisible at the end of the black hose. Observers subsequently noticed that water vapor (condensation) began to form away from the hose... perhaps a quarter of an inch or so. However, my assumption might be incorrect. I'm hoping someone can clarify the matter. The consistently flat temperature is also a clear indication that the steam is not dry. I can see no reason the temperature of dry steam would remain so closely regulated at the boiling point. This particular issue has been argued excessively in the Vortex Forum. I gather not everyone agrees with your interpretation. As for me, I remember my own high school chemistry labs. I recall heating solutions of unspecified liquids in order to convert them into gas. As various solutions transformed into a gas they would immediately leave the boiling flask. What was interesting about this experiment was the fact that the temperature of the remaining liquid ALWAYS remained consistent or at the same level of the respective boiling point. Obviously, the liquid that had just been converted into a gas and had immediately left couldn't possibly be any hotter that the respective temperature of the remaining liquid, especially if it was not contained like in a pressure cooker. It's my understanding that Rossi's e-cat is not designed to retain water under pressure as if it is a pressure cooker. The expelled water is going to be pretty darn close to 100 C no matter how hot the Rossi reaction might be. The only difference would be that the hotter the Rossi Reaction might get, the quicker the various solutions will convert to gas based on their respective boiling points. But it won't make the water turned into a gas any hotter. It will just increase the volume of liquid begin converted into a gas. Is it the conversion rate what is being disputed? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Analysis of e-Cat test by E. Storms
From Josh, For brevity sake I'm just going to focus on the following: I don't think the quality of the video is good enough to judge that. Fair enough. Take a look at figure 2.2.3 on the site Iverson just linked to. Follow the constant pressure path ABCD. It indicates clearly that at constant pressure, as soon as you get dry steam, it can be heated above the boiling point, but that if the steam is wet, it can't be. Dry steam will most certainly increase in temperature *IF* it can hang around long enough in a super heated environment to absorb additional heat. That is the question. To be honest I can't make heads or tails of the diagram, this after staring at it and reading the accompanying explanations several times. The information it attempts to reveal (which presumably was laid out in a simplified manner) was not diagramed in a way that I can translate. Obviously, that is my misfortune. But no matter. This is not rocket science we are dealing with here. Nevertheless, I agree with the premise that if water droplets still exist, and if those droplets are suspended throughout the H2O gas, it will prevent the combination from increasing above 100C, assuming we are at sea level. That's pretty much what my high school chemistry lab session proved to me. It was a fun experiment. However, I repeat. A key point in all of this conjecture is the fact for the 100% dry H2O gas to increase in temperature much above 100 C, it has to hang around long enough within a super heated environment in order to absorb additional heat energy. I am under the impression that the water that was being heated in Rossi's demo e-cat was NOT under any pressure, meaning it is not maintained within a contained environment. Therefore, the newly converted gas, which BTW is constantly expanding, quickly exits the heated reactor chamber. Once the H2O leaves the confines of heated reactor chamber (which it will quickly do) it no longer has a chance to increase much above the 100 C temp it had initially acquired. Therefore how can this newly formed H2O gas be expected to be much above 100 C if it doesn't have a chance to hang around long enough to absorb additional heat energy. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Anyone heard from Dr. Park lately?
Peter... Anyone... It has now been six months since the January demonstration in Bologna, Italy. Has anyone noticed if Dr. Park has chosen to say anything on the Rossi matter? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Anyone heard from Dr. Park lately? (2nd copy)
Hi Peter. I am subscribed to his What's New and have informed him repeatedly about the developments. He has ignored the subject completely ad has not answered the messsges. Too small subject for such a great man. Too small [a] subject... for Dr. Park? ???!!! Surely you're joking! ;-) IMHO, a great man would not continuously avoid expressing comment on this subject, not after having firmly established a relentless track record of skewering prior CF claims. I find it exceedingly interesting that Dr. Park refuses to comment, and by doing so passively allows the younger (and possibly more foolish) wrestle about with this tiger. One learns to pick their battles carefully if one wishes to survive to a ripe old academic age, especially if there are younger less experienced warriors who are all fired up about slaying the dragon all on their own. ...By all means, my young ambitious warrior, you have my blessing! Know when to hold. Know when to fold. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Analysis of e-Cat test by E. Storms
Joshua, You may recall, I conjectured: ... how can this newly formed H2O gas be expected to be much above 100 C if it doesn't have a chance to hang around long enough to absorb additional heat energy. ...to which you replied: How can it not? There lies the little pickle of a situation we find ourselves in. Who's right? I did my best to explain my perceptions on the matter. At present I don't think my thoughts were so terribly flawed that I will need to retract them - but we shall see. Truth is, I'm not in a position to prove your perceptions on the matter are incorrect. But then, nor are you in a position to do likewise to me. Under the circumstances it seems to me that a more practical approach would be to watch Defkalion very closely. I hope you are doing so as well. The burning question we all want to know is whether the products Defkalion's claims they are developing will generate heat (energy) cheaply. At present, I can't answer that, and neither can you. Few can. On the surface it appears that Defkalion is forging ahead with plans to roll out the first generation of products based on Rossi's contested e-cats, possibly by the end of this year. I don't know if Defkalion will meet such an ambitious self-imposed end-of-the-year deadline or not. Quite frankly, it would not surprise me if it takes them a tad longer. In my view it is unlikely that Defkalion as a corporate organization is working in isolation. I suspect there is a considerable amount of feedback and peer review going on within various departments, particularly the RD and engineering sections. It seems logical for me to assume that by this stage of the game had Defkalion encountered something fundamentally wrong with the principal attributes of Rossi's e-cats, the entire organization would have folded up by now. That hasn't happened. Against all odds, it seems as if the exact opposite is happening. It's an interesting quandary I'm left to ponder. I can ponder the ramifications of your view on the matter, a view which seems to imply that all Cold Fusion claims (to the best of your knowledge) are bogus, or I can ponder the actions of Defkalion. Why is it that Defkalion seems to be forging... full steam ahead, no pun intended. Such actions seem to contradict in the most fundamental way your premise that Defkalion is betting its existence, it's entire future on a bogus technology, and tragically so. That's not the impression I get. In any case, I hope you can at least appreciate why might want to avail myself to a second opinion, and a third... Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships
Terry Sez: Can I borrow $58M? Well... according to my unorthodox Witch Doctor source, Rossi Associates are still in need of a lot of cash in order to finish basic RD. Despite certain misgivings already expressed here it seems to me that offering up dealerships might be a reasonable/legitimate way of drumming up a few credits here and there. Alas, I wish I knew if Defkalion really is cash strapped. I'm inclined to assume they are. Of course, all of the above is nothing more than highly speculative ramblings on my part - largely based on the Doctor's alleged assessment of Rossi. I didn't really ask the Doctor specifically about the status of Defkalion. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the current status of Defkalion's piggy bank? Inquiring Minds want to know. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships
From Terry: The story is that they are funded by expat Greeks living in Canada to the tune of €400M. The funds are allegedly committed but the actual status is not public, AFAIK. They have been approached with offers of more funding; but, they have smiled and said no thanks. That would seem to suggest that Defkalion will probably be able to pay salary utility bills through the end of the year... at least through October. ;-) * * * * BTW: The vortex-l Eskimo server is experiencing technical difficulties. I gather the main person in charge of maintaining the servers is on vacation. It may be a while before things are back to normal. I've noticed that I have to send messages four or five times before one finally gets through. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:OT: Economic Disruptions of the Global and Domestic Kind
In lieu of the potential disruptions to the global economy corporations like Defkalion might eventually unleash across the planet, I have a more personal story to tell of the economic disruptive kind. ...Another sign-of-the-times. A couple of weeks ago I bought an Apple i-Pad for, ahem... business reasons. My wife and I go to science fiction conventions, and we needed a practical way to accept real-time credit cards charges from customers interested in purchasing items from our inventory of goods. The i-Pad, i-Phone (as well as Android compatible devices can now accept Credit Card charges real-time with the use of a tiny little device called The Square. See: https://squareup.com/ All one needs to do is set up an account with Square. They charge 2.75% based on the total amount charged to the customer. Moneys go directly to a designated bank account of your choice. The service is easy and a lot cheaper to use than previous Merchant Card services I had been forced to use for years. I would call the Square a major economic disruptor within the Merchant Credit Card Services Industry. Most of these other services charge a lot more than what the Square charges. The Square is ideal for small and medium sized mom pop business enterprises, especially highly mobile ones. Meanwhile, my wife, who had until now always been low-tech, slow-tech, and no-tech, has become completely enamored with the i-Pad. She has finally learned to surf the web via Safari. He is perusing garden art supply catalogues. She is even asking me to help set her up with her own eMail account. But that's not the worst of it. We subscribe to the Netflix service and I have installed iTunes and the Apple TV black cube. Both services are accessible on the i-Pad screen via the household WiFi router. My wife is rapidly turning into an i-Pad video junkie. She is currently main-lining the entire science fiction series of FarScape... at least 3 episodic (fixes) per day. We are now fighting over who gets to use the i-Pad. Sigh... guess I'll have to get my own. A Pox on you, Mr. Jobs! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Purdue paper Bose-Einstein Condensation Nuclear Fusion
FWIW, I sometimes get the sense that Fran’s theory might come the closest to explaining what my unorthodox source the “Witch Doctor” files would seem to suggest might be going on with Rossi's eCats. However, I hasten to add that this is just speculation on my part. One thing for sure, I wish I understood Fran’s theory better. :-( Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:First Photo of Mass-Produced e-Cats?
Vanished, forever what do you mean, Stephen? Seems to me we simply don't have enough facts to make conclusive judgments about the Rossi affair either way. Skeptics will simply point to the unaccounted-for or sold factory statement as yet another long string of convenient deflections made by Rossi that seem to obfuscate the authenticity of his ecat claims. Believers, on the other hand, will simply accept the fact that Rossi sold the factory because he needed cash to help further fund his work. At least that's what Rossi has said. Both are reasonable conclusions depending on one's personal predilections. FWIW, seems to me that if I were in Rossi's shoes and I was still attempting to get a number of patents filed I would not be terribly thrilled about the prospects of publicly revealing the location of a former factory where one of my eCat prototypes was allegedly operational for about a year. I'd suspect that there would have been a number of employees in the factory who were aware of the uniqueness of the contraption. A few of them might have subsequently acquired first-hand knowledge of how the ecat device actually works, as well as what the basic ingredients are that make up the mysterious catalyst. Under the circumstances, if I were Rossi, I would deflect like crazy. I'd worry about a persistent competitor or reporter locating the factory where a couple of conveniently placed bribes here and there might be just enough to learn the secrets. If I were Rossi, I'd play dumb. (It seems to be a useful skill that he has acquired.) Let the skeptics help generate all the obfuscation Rossi needs in order to help keep opportunists from snooping about. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Uppsala University Denies Rossi Research Agreement
There is the following from: http://ecatreport.com/rossi/andrea-rossi-on-the-e-cat-part-12 Excerpt: Andrea Rossi on letting some universities test the E-Cat Rossi went to Uppsala, Sweden the 4th to 5th of July 2011 in order to enter an agreement with Uppsala University enabling them to do research on the physics behind the E-Cat. Because nothing has been signed yet, he cannot reveal any details of the content other than both Sven Kullander and Hanno Essén belong to the small group of researchers selected and trusted to perform research on the E-Cat. The key phrase being: ...because nothing has been signed yet... I got the above link from Krivit's blog: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/07/12/uppsala-university-denies-rossi-research-agreement/ Did someone jump the gun? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Uppsala University Denies Rossi Research Agreement
From Harry: From the top of the Ny Teknik feb. 23rd article: ”You just have to embrace a new technology that might solve the energy problems of mankind, at least until it can be rejected,” Swedish professor Sven Kullander said in a scientific discussion on the Italian ‘energy catalyzer’. Wouldn't you call that an endorsement? Not me, personally. It's just talk. Granted, it's positive talk, but it's still nothing more than just talk. Nothing was signed. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi has lost my trust
From Harry: I was not judging Rossi's current claims against his past misdeeds. However, I am sorry to say this, but Rossi's current conduct is another matter. His aggressive responses to unfavorable criticism, his growing list of inconsistent statements and his highly dubious demonstrations have undermined my trust in him. Now it is Rossi's turn to persuade me that he is NOT engaging in fraud. You may have a long way, Harry. I seriously doubt Rossi cares a hoot about the need to regain the trust of speculators, like any of us on this list. In the greater scheme of things, we're not that important. Sill, it will be interesting to see if Rossi Defkalion can keep any of their grandiose promises by the end of October. Until more developments are forth coming, all I can do is simply wait and see. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Levi's likely attitude
Terry sez: Trust but verify. The phrase, of course, has a tendency to contradict its original intent. However, I appreciate the meaning (and spirit) in which it is given. The phrase was one of the few things Ronald Reagan sed while he was in office that made any sense to me. Humans are often a contradictory lot. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Estimated range of possible power shown by 2 ml/second water flow in a Rossi-type demonstration
From Rich: The 15 seconds when Rossi waved the misty end of the black hose against the black sweater were the Waterloo of this mistaken claim... Any signs that his associates are starting to face this unwelcome reality? The waterloo of [Rossi's] mistaken claim? Heavens, Rich, how many more of these definitive waterloo's of your own making are you going to come up with. Constantly trying to convince everyone with these waterloo assertions of yours sound to me more like you are actually trying to convince yourself once again of the righteousness of your current conclusions. Under the current circumstances, I'd prefer to play dumb! I dunno. Honestly! Fortunately, I can wait and see what steams up, or not as the case may be. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Estimated range of possible power shown by 2 ml/second water flow in a Rossi-type demonstration
From Richard: I examined the video frame by frame for the 15 frames that were part of the 15 seconds that showed the end of the black hose -- several frames clearly show the water mist expanding as a cone directly from the end of the hose -- thus no proof that invisible steam made it to the end of the 3 m hose. Examine the posts by Joshua Cude for clarifications by one far more capable than me... Every day so far is another day without clear-cut proof of actual excess heat output... Rich, maybe you are not aware of the fact that Josua himself has claimed that the video wasn't clear enough to make a definitive conclusion. I specifically asked Josh about the visual quality of the steam emanating from end of the hose as depicted in the video. Here is Josh's response to my query: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg48912.html I don't think the quality of the video is good enough to judge that. I've noticed that you have openly praised Mr. Cude on several occasions for his alleged expertise in debunking Rossi's claims. Joshua certainly seems to have become your hero. Well, maybe Josh really is smart. And maybe he really is a hero... against the claims of all those rabid believers. Heck! Josh even claims my reasoning on the matter violates conservation of energy. See: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg48947.html Still, I'm not convinced Josh is entirely correct. Others have contested the steam claims as well. But I've already said my piece, so I'll let it go. Nevertheless, what concerns me about Josh is the fact none of us really knows that much about who he is. Where does he comes from? What are his motivations? OTOH, there is someone we DO know a little more about than Mr. Cude, and that person is Dr. Robert Park. Some time ago I suggested to Joshua that he might want to contact Dr. Park in order to get his take on Rossi's claims. I suggested to Joshua that he might want to ask Park why is it that he has remained completely mum on the subject. Six months have now transpired and Dr. Park continues to remain silent, at least publicly. How come someone who seems to have made it one of his personal vendettas in life to publicly attack all cold fusion claims is now curiously silent on the matter? Meanwhile, Mr. Cude (whoever he is) wants to attack Rossi's claims, and you want to champion him as a commendable hero. Something here doesn't add up. For now, I think I'll reserve a definitive conclusion on the Rossi matter. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Uppsala University Denies Rossi Research Agreement
From Jed and Josh: It is all nonsense and bullshit. The 18-hour tests with flowing water proved that the large cell is producing ~17 kW. If it did, then the steam should have been a few hundred degrees C in the January test, and not 100C. But of course it doesn't prove anything other than that Rossi and Levi are capable of making unproven claims. Pardon my brief intrusion. This is where I differ with Joshua's conclusion. I tried to explain, unsuccessfully I might add, why in my perception of the events that the steam exiting the eCat reactor is not likely to be much above 100 C no matter how hot the internal eCat temperature core might be...within reason that is. (If memory serves me, I believe the exiting steam temp was recorded to be around 100.1C - 100.2C.) If there is always liquid water present in the reactor core, water which can never reach above 100C at sea level, the nearby gaseous H2O won't have much of a chance to hang around long enough within the reactor core in order to absorb additional temperatures above 100C. Keep in mind that I am assuming that the H2O in its gaseous state is NOT being trapped within the eCat reactor core for any period of time. This ASSUMES the gas has free rein to exit immediately, which I am to understand is precisely what happens. Ironically, the higher the eCat reactor core temperature gets, the more water is converted into steam. This means any converted gas will simply exit the reactor core even faster than before. This means the converted gas doesn't have any more of a chance to absorb additional heat even if the core is hotter, precisely because it leaves faster than before. I would agree with Joshua's conclusion if the converted steam was deliberately being trapped within confines of the reactor core for longer periods of time. Then most certainly the steam WILL absorb additional heat that would be significantly above 100C. However, it is my understanding that this doesn't happen. Therefore, I'm still not inclined to agree with Joshua's conclusion. It is my understanding, however, that Joshua claims my reasoning on this matter apparently violates conservation of energy laws. To be honest, at present I'm not sophisticated enough in my science-speak lingo to challenge Joshua on the matter. So I'll just leave it at that. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Uppsala University Denies Rossi Research Agreement
Joshua, I waited in anticipation to see if you could help explain to me the errors I might have made in my reasoning. I was astonished to discover that the jest of your replies struck me as being just as much of a seat-of-the-pants explanation as you apparently accuse me of doing. For example: The air in a furnace also has free rein to exit immediately, and still it gets hotter. In my view, your counter argument - where you use the heating of air passing through a furnace to make your point, is not an appropriate analogy to use with Rossi's eCat configuration. Heating air as it passes through a furnace most certainly gets hot, very quickly so. Thank heavens it does! I live in Wisconsin, and it gets pretty darn cold up here in February. But your analogy doesn't take into account the fact that in Rossi's reactor configuration, the furnace air doesn't have to contend with passing a gauntlet of nearby liquid water, which by the very nature of its state can never be above 100C at sea level. After all the water is converted to steam, you can't convert any more water into steam. You seem to be implying that there is a point where there might not be any water left in Rossi's reactor core. Where did you come up with that premise? I was always under the impression that there is ALWAYS a supply of water replenishing what has been converted into steam. What's your point? This means any converted gas will simply exit the reactor core even faster than before. What it means is that the water is converted to steam earlier in the ecat. Since all the water is already converted to steam, it will not move any faster (except to the extent that it gets hot and expands, which you argue doesn't happen), but the created steam has to pass by more of the heated walls of the ecat, and the heated walls are at a higher temperature. So, it must get hotter. It was at this point that I arrived at the astonishing realization that any sense of intimidation I might have felt in regards to most of your conjectures was misplaced. How do you come up with a scenario where all the H2O in the reactor core would possibly be in the gas state? When does that ever happen? Fresh new water constantly replaces the rapidly expanding exiting steam. The reactor core is never empty of water. To be honest the terminology I used was a bit clumsy. I should have stated more clearly the fact that as more energy (thermal heat) is presumably generated within the reactor core a higher VOLUME of H2O gas would naturally be produced. This translates to the simple fact of physics where (assuming there is no deliberate containment going on) a higher volume of gas has no choice left but exit the reactor core chamber more quickly than it would do if the reactor core was cooler. Therefore, the rapidly exiting H2O gas doesn't have much time to absorb additional heat from the walls of the reactor core. I've come to the conclusion that it is pointless for me to carry this conversation on any further with you, Joshua. My time is finite, and I have no desire spending it endlessly trying to correct misrepresentations you may have made (intentionally or unintentionally) concerning my POV on the matter. Maybe my conclusions are right, and maybe they aren't. Or maybe I'm only partly right. I dunno. I'm content to wait it out. You think you're right? By all means, remain right, but not on my dime. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Uppsala University Denies Rossi Research Agreement
Joshua, Stephen, I have no desire to incessantly argue my POV - till I'm blue in the face. As I've stated many times in the past, I might be wrong. In any case I think I now understand where our mutual misunderstanding might lie. There appears to be a semantics problem, one that may have obfuscated our mutual perception of the situation. My perception on the reactor core has always implied that the volume of water entering the reactor core could vary. Obviously, I could be very wrong on this key point. I thought it was obvious to any observer reading my posts that I was implying that there would always be a sufficient amount of water being fed into the internal reactor core in order to make sure it never ran dry. To be more precise, I was implying that the VOLUME of liquid water within the core would remain relatively stable, or fixed. Obviously, if the reactor core gets hotter, but the amount of water entering remains fixed the amount of water converted into steam would increase. This would subsequently REDUCE the volume of liquid H2O within the reactor core, and more gaseous H2O would end up being exposed to internal surface area of the reactor core for longer periods of time, and yes, indeed, I agree with both Josh and Stephen, that the H2O gas should increase in temperature. Indeed, simple conservation of energy explains this. OTOH, if the volume of liquid H2O within the reactor core can be maintained at a constant volume, it would obviously imply that the volume of water being fed into the system would have to vary/increase as the reactor core temperature increased - to compensate... and I believe my original premise would then be more accurate. To be honest, I have not studied carefully the actual numerical figures given in the January test, and that is my fault. I could be wrong on this point but I will assume the January test states that the amount of water being fed into the January test was always maintained at a fixed volume flow. Is this correct? If so, my original premise would not apply here. Feel free to verify my conclusion, or disagree with it. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:European Patent Office observer criticizes Rossi's E-Cat
Jed sez: They told me the flow rate was continuously monitored with a video camera. The meter keeps track of total consumption, as I said. There was no pump; just water pressure from the tap. That is very reliable. Water pressure does not change measurably at 1 L/s for 20 minutes when someone flushes a toilet. Maybe a couple taking a shower. 20 minutes probably isn't enough time. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Vortex Could Go Down July 25th
Is there anything against the creation of a Google Group instead? Anyway, this is going either way to hugely affect the public reach of the vortex-l discussion group. Google groups are the old Usenet, right? Yahoo offers file folders, piccys, etc. Anyway, I created a google group too. http://groups.google.com/group/vortex-l-backup Youse guys can decide which you would prefer in the event of failure here. Who decides? I'm not trying to be flippant. if we determine it might be wise to migrate, exactly who makes the decision... the final determination. Do we vote on it? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:How can we make sure that 1MW e-cat is true?
From Akira ... Perhaps the best way to make sure that the 1MW plant is true would be to measure the output energy while the input is zero. 1 MW of heat in such conditions would be quite hard to fake (the test would have to run long enough, ie more than a few seconds - possibly minutes - without a noticeable drop in output heat. Of course one would have to pay attention to possible external sources of power or heat). Admittedly, I could be naive on this point but I find myself still willing to accept the premise that Rossi's eCats probably produce a fair amount excess heat... probably well beyond what's being fed into them. What I remain less certain about, however, is just how much and how stable the generated heat might be. It would not surprise me if Rossi is concerned about the stability of his eCats as well. The apparent fact that he kept changing the size of his eCats WELL after the initial January demo suggests to me that Rossi may still be performing a lot more RD work that we might assume is the case, as compared to finalizing the engineering specs for the scheduled October dog pony show. Alas, we speculate... we worry. Worry produces excessive thinking of the speculative kind. Fertile speculation produces more worry, and on and on it goes. I'm reminded of a famous phrase from a popular song: Don't worry, be happy. The song made that artist a ton of money. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Seebeck effect in the E-Cat?
Terry sez: ... I'll bet 'cha there will always be an electric component to the initiation of the reaction either way. Nah! All'ya need is a Ford Model T crank. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Piantelli news
Jed sez: ... Maybe Rossi has nothing to do with it, and Piantelli happened to achieve commercial-level success now, and he would have gone public even without Rossi. In a pig's eye. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:NET Says Little COP
Terry sez: Our analysis shows a possible energy gain of one to two times. end excerpt I wonder who constitutes Our? Expanding on Terry's question: Is there a specific link that explains these claims in more detail, or are we going to just have to wait? All I see is advertisement. Coming attractions. Well... Rossi has his blog... and so has Krivit. Guess we can call it even. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:NET Says Little COP
Just a brief follow-up comment. Browsing the front page of New Energy Times: http://newenergytimes.com/ It's odd to me that the on-going Rossi saga still does not merit a least a brief link here. I mean, golly! Regardless of whether one believes in Rossi's claims or not, this isn't news? Meanwhile, there has been a Widom-Larsen Theory Portal link for quite some time - and I suspect there exists quite a few who beg to differ as to the author's conclusions. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:new data global warming is not a problem
FWIW: The article was written James M. Taylor is senior fellow for environment policy at The Heartland Institute and managing editor of Environment Climate News. Here's some info on Harland's funding, as revealed by Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute Excerpt: Funding According to its brochures, the Heartland Institute receives money from approximately 1,600 individuals and organizations, and no single corporate entity donates more than 5% of the operating budget.[20] Heartland states that it does not accept government funds and does not conduct contract research for special-interest groups.[21] MediaTransparency reported that the Heartland Institute received funding from politically conservative foundations such as the Castle Rock Foundation, the Sarah Scaife Foundation, the John M. Olin Foundation, and the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation.[22] Oil and gas companies have contributed to the Heartland Institute, including over $600,000 from ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005.[23] Greenpeace reported that the Heartland Institute received almost $800,000 from ExxonMobil.[14] By 2008, ExxonMobil had stopped funding to Heartland.[dubious – discuss] Joseph Bast, president of the Heartland Institute, argued that ExxonMobil was simply distancing itself from Heartland out of concern for its public image.[23] The Heartland Institute has also received funding and support from the tobacco company Philip Morris.[15] The Independent reported that Heartland's receipt of donations from Exxon and Philip Morris indicates a direct link...between anti-global warming sceptics funded by the oil industry and the opponents of the scientific evidence showing that passive smoking can damage people's health.[6] As of 2006, the Walton Family Foundation (run by the family which founded Wal-Mart) had contributed approximately $300,000 to the Heartland Institute. The Heartland Institute published an op-ed in the Louisville Courier-Journal defending Wal-Mart against criticism over its treatment of workers. The Walton Family Foundation donations were not disclosed in the op-ed, and the editor of the Courier-Journal stated that he was unaware of the connection and would probably not have published the op-ed had he known of it.[24] The St. Petersburg Times described the Heartland Institute as particularly energetic defending Wal-Mart.[24] Heartland has stated that its authors were not paid to defend Wal-Mart and did not receive funding from the corporation; it did not disclose the $300,000+ received from the Walton Family Foundation.[24] I suspect David Koch would be very pleased with this report. ;-) Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Revisiting The Whipmag All-Magnet Motor, saga
From Stephen, Please note that physics simulation packages are going to be based on physical law, as currently understood, and the conventional EM model of magnetism is conservative. As a result, the assumption of conservative behavior is built into the modeling package. Consequently, it should, in principle, be impossible to discover any non-conservative behavior between permanent magnets by running a simulation. If such exists, you'd need to use real magnets to find it. Precisely. I didn't say as such in my comments, but I understand what you are saying. Very early in my training this principal was drummed into my head. Actually, it's a pretty sensible assumption to make, even if it might not be correct in the absolute sense of the word. (It's MOSTLY right!) ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Revisiting The Whipmag All-Magnet Motor, saga
Terry, Some follow-up comments. The present belief is that the whipmag was a hoax which got way out of hand when the vid went viral. Al removed the vid but it got copied by others. OC has since passed away and Al seems to regret the whole incident from what little he will say. Considering the fact that pretty much every replication attempt that I've come across failed... I'd have to conclude something fishy was probably going on as well. However, I did notice that some well constructed replications were not tested correctly. I recall one tester attempting to spin the stator magnet in the opposite rotational direction as the rotor disk, as if they were intermeshed gears. It's little irritating observations like that which lead me to conclude that some of the replication attempts were based on misinterpretation of the facts. Regarding the animated graphic purporting to represent the whipMag configuration in action, as shown out at: http://www.overunity.org.uk/cmps_index.php?pageid=whipmag1 this animation appears (to me) to have been assembled incorrectly. If one observes the stroboscope video of the WhipMag in action. See: http://www.youtube.com/v/Plzck4qSbAIhl=en_USfeature=player_embeddedversion=3 http://tinyurl.com/3plyzej One will quickly notice that BOTH the rotor disk and the rotating stator magnet are rotating counter-clockwise. As previously mentioned, such a dynamic configuration where both assemblages are rotating in the same rotational direction seems counter intuitive to our way of thinking. However, such a dynamic configuration cannot help but set up a situation where a considerable amount of magnetic migration of the flux lines will result. It is precisely the dynamic qualities of such migration patterns that I'm trying to get a better handle on. However, as previously mentioned, using the free FEMM software simulation package will NOT be able to reveal the dynamics of these kinds of migration patterns because each measurement it would attempt to generate would pertain to static configurations assumed to be at a standstill. The results would ALWAYS show perfect symmetry - perfect balance where all the pluses and minuses add up to zero. As Stephen Lawrence stated, most software of this kind is built around a bias showing conservative measurements. The software package was not designed to take into consideration how dynamic migratory changes to the overall location of flux lines could theoretically end up influencing over-all torque values. What I'm trying to get a better handle on is whether such migratory phenomenon might possibly introduce an asymmetry. Probably not, but I don't know that for sure. As far as your questions are concerned, all I can say is we tested every configuration of magnetic motor we could imagine and always found the cycle conservative. I can say that we demonstrated an asymmetry between the attractive and repellent forces between magnets. I have never been able to explain this to my own satisfaction. My (potentially flawed) understanding of why there appears to be a blatant asymmetry revealed between attractive and repellent forces is due to the fact that the magnetic domains pertaining to some of the atoms are flipping 180 degrees when two PMs in repulsive mode are brought closer together. My FEMM simulations clearly show the flux lines being PUSHED deeper into the PM configuration. Because these flux lines are being pushed deeper into the PMs the overall repulsive strength will appear to be weaker than if it was in attractive mode. This has lead many seekers of the Holy Grail of magnetic motor OU to proclaim to the world that they have personally discovered a mysterious asymmetry in magnetic physics. They are wrong. If one assembles careful torque measurements (aka: newton measurements) of a rotating PM as it rotates a full 360 degrees past a stationary PM one will eventually conclude that the torque measured in one direction cancel out same amount of measured torque in the opposite direction. IOW, while torque measurements in attractive mode might appear stronger, torque measurements accumulated in repulsive mode take up more spatial time throughout the entire 360 rotation. Therefore, when you add up all the torque measurements in both attractive and repulsive mode you tend to end up with a value close to zero. BTW, for the curious, here's a link to a free download of the FEMM s/w package: http://softwaretopic.informer.com/meeker-femm-heat-flow/ Once you get the hang of it, it's kind of fun to use! It was designed by David Meeker, Ph.D.: http://www.femm.info/wiki/DavidMeeker I gather David managed to piss off several vendors attempting to sell (for thousands of dollars) what he was essentially giving away for free. It's possible some of these companies finally got around to making an offer David couldn't refuse, but I dunno! ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Revisiting The Whipmag All-Magnet Motor, saga
From Terry: Actually, the animation is per OC's idea which came to him in a dream. The whipmag was a variation on the dream. That may be so, but OC's dream variation is, IMO, categorically different than what Alsetalokin's original configuration appears to show. IMHO, OC dream, specifically the dynamic animation displayed out at the web site, is therefore irrelevant. OC's animation cannot be used in any practical way to help explain Alsetalokin's contraption, precisely because OC is rotating the stator magnets in the wrong direction. Alas, a burning debate that remains answered in my mind is whether Alsetalokin's original demonstration was a clever fake. Based on the fact that, as I understand it, few replications have shown much success, it is sensible to come to a conclusion that trickery may indeed have been involved. But silly me! I'm still curious. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Fw: New Energy Times #37 and Rossi Report #3
Michele sez: Does anyone know where the Florida factory is located? He would respond that he does not want anyone to know... this man must be a secret agent, I even wonder if *he* is real... ;-) I don't know if Michele was being serious about the secret agent bit or not. The little smiley at the end would suggest Michele wasn't being serious. ;-) In any case, I suspect many within the Vort Collective are showing clear signs of having contracted a bad case of Overs Speculatumus. The best cure for these kinds of aggravated mental machinations is to perform a little bit of Zen maintenance. IOW, stop thinking for a while. Just be. Stay in the present. Obsessively trying to predict what might be the case accomplishes nothing more than ripping us out of the power of the present moment, and the present moment is the only place where anything useful get's done. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Revisiting The Whipmag All-Magnet Motor, saga
From Terrry: The consensus at the time was it was driven with a compressed air nozzle. A reasonably educated guess. Nevertheless, I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel. (Or perhaps I'm not finished obsessing over... I mean amusing myself over the Alsetalokin matter.) ;-) The original Alsetalokin video is badly lit. The imagery flickers. There is also a loud extraneous buzzing noise that permeates the audio track. One has to question why the video was so badly shot. If I wuz a suspicious individual it would be easy to start asking myself: What was Alsetalokin trying to obfuscate by posting such an obscure video. However, I tend to side more on what might be described as the gullible side of these matters. Emotionally, I WANT to believe. If it wasn't for the fact that my intellect occasionally pipes up and sez annoying things like ...excuse me, but stop ignoring the man behind the curtain!!! I probably wouldn't be of much use to anyone. I'll now try to explain in more detail why Alsetalokin's video still makes the intellectual centers of my brain itch. The following assessment is based on the assumption that both the rotor and stator PMs are simultaneously rotating in the same rotational direction, either clockwise or counter-clockwise. Makes no difference. The only difference is the fact that the STATOR PM rotates at a higher RPM - in-sync at one complete 360 degree rotation while two ROTOR PMs pass nearby. A classic torque graph tends to show a sharp up spike as described in Newton forces. It is immediately followed by a quick down spike that looks like an exact mirror replica of the up spike. The only difference is that the down spike has been flipped both horizontally and vertically and shifted such that the zero nexus point meets exactly where the Newton forces equal zero. Where the up spike and the down spike meet is analogous to the bottom floor of two valleys where a boulder would naturally want to roll towards if free to do so... the magnetic cogging effect. If one were to rapidly rotate the Alsetalokin the ROTOR/STATOR configuration as describe above, a curious thing may begin to manifest, something related to magnetic viscosity and/or the effects of hysteresis. The flux lines of adjacent PMs will be dragged slightly to the right (or left) depending on what direction the ROTOR/STATOR configuration is rotating. That drag results in a small shift of the classic Newton torque measurements as portrayed on a graph. Granted, the shifted or dragged torque measurements are probably still symmetrical in of itself - except for one annoying little detail, a detail I have yet to resolve in my brain. It has to do with the fact that the ROTOR/STATOR configuration is an on-going DYNAMIC condition. Classic Torque measurements, as simulated in s/w packages like FEMM pertain to basic measurements from STATIC non-moving configurations. Therefore, it is still reasonable to speculate on a premise that the actual measurements of what actually happens in a dynamic configuration are not necessarily being accurately modeled here. It is still possible that a tiny sliver of asymmetry has been introduced into a dynamically rotating configuration. There are times when the torque forces are attracting the ROTOR/STATOR configuration, and times when the same torque forces are repelling against each other. Both effects will CHANGE the migratory pattern of flux lines in interesting ways. At first glance one might assume an obvious asymmetry would have to be introduced due to the fact that it's well known (among researchers) that repelling forces are never as strong as the attracting forces. However, spatially speaking, there is more spatial time in the repulsive torque phaze, and when you add all the pluses and minuses up it still comes to zero ... OR... OR!!! perhaps not. It's this uncertainty that I have yet to answer to my satisfaction in the Alsetalokin configuration. The point being: Is it possible that Alsetalokin's configuration manages to introduce a way to shave off a tiny slice of SPATIAL TIME pertaining to the repulsive phase. If that does happen a real asymmetry would be introduced into the configuration. Granted, it's probably a long shot since we are dealing with Newtonian events, not quantum events, but anyway... Inquiring minds want to know. Software simulations such as FEMM can only point theoreticians and researchers in a general speculative direction. In the end, there is only one way to know for sure. Build the damned contraption! A major difference I would introduce in future POC (Proof of Concept) constructions would be to add special gearing to the ROTOR/STATOR configuration. The gearing would force the ROTOR/STATOR configuration to always rotate in-sync, no matter what the RPM speed might be. The downside of adding gearing would be to introduce additional friction to the overall construction. However, if there exists sufficient asymmetry, (a BIG if here!), then OU does exist, and it may be
Re: [Vo]:Revisiting The Whipmag All-Magnet Motor, saga
From Terry: Well, Clanzer, and others, built exact replicas to no avail. I would not advise you to follow suit. I wasn't planning on it. My initial interest was strongly biased towards speculating on whether an asymmetry might begin to manifest in Alsetalokin's ROTOR/STATOR configuration if everything could be carefully choreographed with a customized gear setup. The point being to make sure both ROTOR and STATOR assembly would always be rotating in the same rotational direction and in proper sync. This could be constructed, mechanically speaking, with proper gear ratios constructed out of non-magnetic materials. However, despite my lack of funding no shop issues, what makes me seriously doubt my own speculation comes down to a personal suspicion that magnetic phenomenon, as perceived from our Newtonian frame of reference, is conservative, energy wise. As Mr. Lawrence previously stated, the ...EM model of magnetism is [perceived to be] conservative. I tend to agree with this assumption. It seems to me that if conservation wasn't maintained Mother Nature would either be constantly blowing herself up, or seizing to a screeching near absolute Zero temperature halt. Neither extreme seems to be happening, at least from our Newtonian frame of reference. An uneasy status quo seems to be maintained. It may turn out to be a very different story on the quantum level however, as we may soon discover. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Millennium Falcon or Odd Sea Floor Formation
Thanks for bringing this bizarre off-the-wall article to our attention. ;-) A few comments from the peanut gallery: ... Now, however, his team do not have the money or resources to examine the shape further. Hopefully, someone with a little spare cash will come forth soon... No venture, no gain. Think of the bragging rights! ... Experts have also pointed out that even the idea of a flying saucer as a round object might be wrong - the first sighting of such a craft later turned out to be a reporting error. What a blithering idiotic proclamation to make at the end of an article. In reference to what ...first sighting. It means absolutely nothing! Regards Great kid. Don't get cocky Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Passerini's Prediction
Considering Jouni's recent challenge: ...I will challenge you for 40 euros that Rossi does not do a fraud. If E-Cat is true, you pay 40 euros to charity, and if not I pay 40 euros for charity. This strikes me as a civilized bet, one that could be formalized between two reasonable individuals who respectfully differ on certain opinions. The only problem with this wager, as I perceive it, is how does one determine fraud? Granted, if Rossi's dog and pony show gets off the ground in October Abd would be obliged to generously pay 40 euros to his favorite charity. But if October comes and goes, does that automatically mean Rossi is a fraud, and Charles needs to reciprocate? Of course not, particularly if technical difficulties become more apparent as the deadline approaches. My own predilections pertaining to the fascinating Rossi enigma is that technical difficulties may delay the October show - or perhaps it will be significantly downgraded into a less impressive demo. Of course, I hope I'm wrong. Perhaps Charles and Hope should set a realistic time-table or deadline for when fraud should be officially declared. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report
From Jed: What test? What exactly was done, what data was generated? The data provided can be found here: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm Jed, I realize it is probably redundant of me to express the following but could you point readers to the specific article(s) you believe make your point. Your news link: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm has a lot of entries. It might help to be more specific as to which installment is most relevant to the point you are making. Is it the 18-hour demonstration? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report
It does strike me as just a tad obsessive to meticulously focus on Rossi's Chiwawa and Shetland Pony demonstrations, which were nothing more than trade shows - and then treat them as if they were valid scientific experiments. No wonder skeptics have found fault with them. Certainly, we would all love to see more rigorous experimental tests performed for which we in the Peanut Gallery would get our hands on. Jed has sed this, and so has Abd. No one disputes this. However, Rossi has a different perspective on the matter, and there isn't much we can do about it except complain and/or find fault with Rossi's occasional carnival-like behavior. Regarding on-going criticism, I'm am sometimes left speculating that certain skeptics may have deliberately chosen to retaliate by trying to goad Rossi into revealing more of his eCat secrets - by implying this or that about his work. Who knows. I dunno. I still suspect there probably is something genuine going on here. Maybe even enuf to commercialize. I'm just not convinced that everything will be revealed to everyone's satisfaction when October rolls by. On that point, I'm still willing to cut Rossi additional slack if there is sufficient evidence to suggest the fact that he's on to something. The fact that two universities seem to think there is something to Rossi's claims gives me hope. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report
From Rich, -- being sincerely wrong is a really profound learning process. Indeed it is. I don't know if Rossi is sincerely wrong about his eCats or not. I don't know if believers of Rossi's claims are also sincerely wrong about their assessments of the claims either. But the same thing can be levied against Rossi's critics. Just keep in mind that being sincerely right about one's personal convictions is no different than later learning that one was sincerely wrong. The key point being: sincerely. I should know. As previously stated, I've had to admit to myself that I really know whose right and who is wrong. Admitting the fact that I don't know strikes me as a far more sincere confession to make under current circumstances. Hopefully we will all learn valuable lessons -- in all due course. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Passerini's Prediction
From Terry: I came to a conclusion of fraud, defined as wilful deception, after seeing a lot of evidence for it, which I was always explaining away, as did others. If I thought there could be the slightest possibility that Rossi and Defkalion were not committing fraud, I think I'd keep my mouth shut. After all, this is one of the definitive forums for cold fusion; and, if you are wrong and the company is worth billions in a few years, they might seek damages if not retribution for those who judged poorly and defamed their name. Just a little advice. Seems to me that if it turns out Defkalion never committed fraud, why would they care what Abd suspected, or any critic might have said for that matter. As far as retribution is concerned, perhaps getting even would entail nothing more satisfying than generating a well publicized list of all the meticulous things nay-sayers had proclaimed. Leave it at that. Punishment would entail nothing more disgraceful than having their skeptical arguments prominently plastered as additional advertisement fodder. They said it couldn't be done... that it was a fraud! and off to the races they go. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Time for a new poll?
Do you think the eCat is real of fake. IMO, it's probably for real. (Depends on which demo. ;-) ) The eCat probably exhibits heat, sufficient quantities of heat to warrant commercialization. However the underlying theoretical process that generates the excess heat is obviously not well understood. Current recipes used to exploit the effect are tantamount to a witches brew of incantation and finger crossing. Some days it works better than on other days. A significant amount of engineering and theoretical analysis will be needed to in order to exploit the process to its maximum potential. Once the fundamental theory is better understood and the frighteningly potential of what the eCat represents is subsequently exploited, I suspect some on this planet may begin expressing grave doubts as to whether we as a species are responsible enough to control it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report
Well, Jed, maybe you're right at the cusp of a complete switch of your gestalt of understandings re the Rossi phenomenon -- a little more likely when waking up in the morning, you notice your entire system of interpretations has irrevocably reversed, like a 3D shift in the way a wire cube seems to face -- can't be forced or rushed -- just happens -- like remembering a name a few minutes after choosing to stop trying to recall it... Rich, FIWI, when it comes to predicting the psychological machinations of individuals it is best to use oneself as the guinea pig. (I have no problem exploiting my own faults and quirky predilections when it comes to psycho babble. I have given myself permission to exploit myself.) OTOH, psychoanalyzing and exploiting others in public without their expressed consent, making predictions pertaining to how others are likely to behave, while simultaneously standing aloof, as if you are above it all is bullshit psychology. Mr. Beaty, IMHO, you might want to keep a watch on Mr. Murray. If Mr. Murray's propensity to exploit pop psychology persists I think it may warrant a temporary time out from the Vort sand box. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report
Just to clarify: I said: ...If Mr. Murray's propensity to exploit pop psychology persists I think it may warrant a temporary time out from the Vort sand box. What I meant to say is that if Mr. Murray's propensity to exploit pop psychology IN ATTEMPTS TO DESCRIBE PERSONALLY PERCEIVED FAULTS IN OTHERS persists I think it may warrant a reprimand, or a temporary time out from the Vort sand box. Shoot, I'm guilty of exploiting paup-siecology all the time. However, I try to limit the damage to myself and myself alone. I'm sure I may have bent the rules on occasion. Nobody's perfect. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report
From Rich: The following is obviously abbreviated and probably taken out of context: ...rather than continue to blather forever about claims that go back 22 years, Ah, I see the blather word is now being used to explain CF claims for the past 22 years. Look, Rich, expressing your skepticism towards a number of CF claims is perfectly acceptable. We ALL have differing perspectives on these matters. I've obviously expressed opinions that imply Rossi's somewhat unpredictable wunder-cats are likely to an authentic phenomenon, but I could be wrong. Hopefully, we'll all know a lot more before the end of the year... but then perhaps not. What is less acceptable, IMHO, is to publicly psycho-analyze the perceptions of others in a manner that is not conducive of generating a genuine feedback from the individual you have targeted. You use interesting words, like catalyze that seemingly gives a more statesmanlike impression of your intentions, of trying to assist others to see-the-light. But I think you might be failing to consider the possibility that the light you wish others to be catalyzed by may be nothing more than the light bulb burning within the confines your own head. State your case and leave it at that. Unless specifically invited to so so, stop trying to state the cases of others - for their benefit. They are perfectly capable of doing that for themselves. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report
Rich, I see Mr. Rothwell has found his own unique way of assessing your assessments of his alleged faults. According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensch ...the Yiddish term mensch means a person of integrity and honor. Actually, your response is somewhat cryptic and open to interpretation. Correct me if I error here, but I take it you perceive yourself as a person who possesses integrity and honor. You also seem to be saying that you don't try so much to catalyze others, but instead attempt to catalyze them directly. It's been my experience that few wish to be directly catalyzed by others, not without first clearly inviting for such direction. It doesn't matter what multiple-level one wishes to play such games on either - be it on the physical, astral, mid-causal, or in the middle of Aunt Martha's strawberry patch. The point being, did Mr. Rothwell invite you to directly catalyze him? If not, it was very presumptuous of you. All that such hard-earned direct mensch-ness is likely to accomplish is to be relegated to the auto-delete file. In which case the only mutual service going on here is the continued servicing one's own personal paradigms. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Flowing Water on Mars
The MRO images are breathtaking. The satellite is powerful enough to photograph the tracks left by the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. Say what one will about NASA's faults, but when they hit a bull's eye the results can be spectacular. With funding on the construction of the IST winding down it is hoped that what little funding remains will go towards the launching of additional unmanned missions. Another mission to Jupiter was just launched today. I am sympathetic to Dr. Park's viewpoint on the value of supporting more unmanned missions in frugal times like now. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi and Defkalion Split-up?
Too many alpha males trying to run the same pack. Adjustments are inevitable. Perhaps too many alpha females too. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi and Defkalion Split-up?
Wait a minute! I thought Defkalion and Rossi were supposed to be in cahoots with each other. Well, shoot! Who's minding the conspiracy now! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi and Defkalion Split-up?
...and another thing! On a more serious note... The split suggest to me that Defkalion's management may have finally had enuf of Rossi's continued tinkering of his eCat design. When it comes to meeting deadlines pertaining to the rollout of a brand new product there comes a point when management simply has to freeze the design specs. Same things happens in software development. Otherwise cost overruns and delays to the targeted rollout date are inevitable. Rossi is an engineer - an inventor by nature. Engineers strike me as often being in a perpetual state of tinkering with their inventions. The minute they implement one improvement it immediately leads the inventor to envision several additional improvements, and of course every one of those improvements HAS to be implemented. And on-and-on it goes. It's management's worst nightmare. I suspect Management finally had to say to Rossi: No more changes, but Rossi begged to differ. It will be interesting to see if my speculations are reasonably accurate or whether I missed the real reason for the split by a trillion miles. Probably a good thing I'm not placing any bets on my hunch. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Stremmenos' answer.
From Daniele Passerini's blog: (google translated) http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=ittl=enu=http%3A%2F%2F22passi.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F08%2Fstremmenos-sulla-rottura-tra-rossi-e.html Can someone translate the contents and post it out here. The site is blocked at some business establishments. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Stremmenos' answer.
Daniel sez: Looks like the Witch Doctor was right at least about a few things, like Rossi still looking for support. Thanks for the Stremmenos translation, Daniel. In regards to the Witch Doctor possibly being right about a few things, I remember a quote I got from them way back in the 1990s: We are frequently wrong. I've never forgotten it. Everyone is entitled to occasionally missing the target. It also serves to point out the fact that in the end we must always evaluate available evidence using our own inner wisdom. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Recent comments from Rossi
Recent comments from Rossi. From: http://pesn.com/2011/08/08/9501889_Defkalion_Responds_Ignores_Rossis_Accusation/ Excerpts: Aug 7: ...But the tech must go on, we signed a tremendous contract in the USA. The Customer has already made plans for 1,000 plants in the USA, and has the financial dimension for this. By the way: it was already foreseen from me this USA plant, if you remember, I told months ago that we were preparing also a plant for the USA. Aug 8: Our program goes on as scheduled, after the Agreement with the USA Partner. The 1 MW plant will go in Operation in the USA, I cannot say in which city, because you could understand immediately who is the Partner, and we are bound not to reveal it until the test day. I hope Rossi is being truthful (as truthful as Rossi can be) in regards to such claims. To be honest, his commentary strikes me more as a form of damage control or deflection. Whip everyone up into frenzy. Try to distract everyone with new promises and grandiose plans allegedly now occurring on American soil. Rossi refusing to name the American city will no doubt create rampant speculation. The Vort Collective might as well start naming a few of their own favorites. Here's my pick of the hour! ;-) Seattle / Microsoft. (Ahhh... Probably not! I don't think Microsoft has ever shown that much vision.) I would nevertheless seriously consider exploring a number of hi-tech firms, particularly those flush with cash. Does anyone seriously consider the possibility that an energy firm, possibly even a petroleum corporation might be nibbling? (I presume not.) As Mr. Rothwell has pointed out on several occasions, history has repeatedly shown cases where established corporations tend to ignore the promise of brand new technologies that soon render their current line of products and services obsolete. A damn shame. * * * Considering the perceived instability of the current situation, it would not surprise me in the least if we will soon be presented with additional developments. I hope some of them will be received with less anxiety. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The dream is over?
From Daniel: So, at the very least, Rossi erred by omission, a very bad one, by not dismissing Defkalion's claims of massively testing e-cats. So, he blatantly associated with liars and cheaters. It's just business. Nothing personal. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The dream is over?
From Daniel: I am not talking about something personal. Just that there was at the very least a scam from Defkalion. Again, it's just business! Perhaps the following links will shed light on the nothing personal phrase. ;-) http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/29227 http://www.great-quotes.com/quote/173936 Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The dream is over? Rossi - Defkalion ran out of money?
Thanks Andrea, It would appear that Mr. Iverson's assessment may have been pretty accurate. Put out [the money] or it's the hi-way. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Recent comments from Rossi
Terry sez: Don't forget that Motorola was going to invest in the Patterson Cold Fusion power cell. Now, who was recently in the news about having more money than the United States? Apple! What better investor in the iCat than Apple. Did I say iCat? Yes you did! Why is my iPad heating up. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Recent comments from Rossi
From Terry: ... I don't know if you saw it; but, Spaandonk mentioned Ford Motor Company. Consider this, the mean power comsumption of an automobile traveling at 60 mph is on the order of 16 kW. The peak power consumption of the average home is on the order of 10 kW. The mean power consumption of the average home is 1 kW. Now, stay with me, this will be a shocking idea . . . suppose your car could power your home. I know, we think of electric vehicles and having your home power your car; but, consider the numbers. I have an engine in my new car which is capable of 25 kW; but, I only use it 2 or 3 hours per day. Suppose my engine was a Rossi, 4 module VCat and capable of running continuously. When in the garage, it could power my house and charge my home power system for when I was away. When I am at work, I can feed the hungry grid. Novel idea, eh? In prior years Mark Goldes (of Magnetic Power Inc.) championed the very same idea. Of course, in Mark's case it was through the use of one of this zero point energy devices conveniently installed in the family car. If memory serves me, these days Mr. Goldes is now highly supportive of Rossi's claims. But yes, I take your point. Same idea. I suspect most power utilities may not think this is a good idea according to current business paradigms. OTOH, if everyone can work out an equitable wholesale/retail price structure for selling excess energy back to the grid there is no reason why everyone could not end up benefiting. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Recent comments from Rossi
From Bridges: Hmm, what about this one: Mountain View, Ca (Google HQ) ? That is interesting speculation. I had wondered about Google as well. They DO have a lot of power hungry servers that need lots of constant care and feeding. I suspect Google has lots of cash on hand as well - probably a lot more than Defkalion currently has on hand. Bloom Energy might not think it's a great idea, however. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9160238/Could_Bloom_Box_revolutionize_power_industry_ If there is any truth to the possibility that Rossi approached Google, and that a tentative deal was struck, I would expect Bloom Energy stocks would take a tumble very soon. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The dream is over? Rossi - Defkalion ran out of money?
Andrea and Jed sez: Mark, I think he should have started his marketing campaign in a country with no internet connections. Yes! North Korea could really use the energy. Guess they could go out and sell a couple of missals to al qaeda. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:who is the secret big partner of Rossi in USA?
From Axil: A clue, Rossi says that if he told us in which city the 1 MW reactor demo is to be held in, we would immediately know what company his American partner is. Company towns like that are very rare anymore with most manufacturing going overseas. The company must be big, American, long established and global. Ford fits. Ford’s World Headquarters is Dearborn, Michigan. While Ford's headquarters in Dearborn, Michigan, is reasonable speculation to make (under the circumstances) I find myself grappling with what kind of a USA company or industry would have the most to gain in attempting to exploit Rossi's eCat technology. I'm not convinced that ECat technology, in its presumed current prototype incarnation, would be of much use to the auto industry like Ford, or any auto company for that matter. It's my understanding that eCat technology at present can only generate excess heat in an efficient manner. Said differently, the technology to convert excess heat in an efficient manner into electricity so that it can ultimately power an automobile's drive shaft does not strike me as being quite prime time - not quite yet. If someone would like to disagree with my premise, by all means please explain why they might think it would work. At present, I'm more inclined to speculate that a hi-tech company like Google would better stand to benefit more immediately, and in a more direct manner. Large 1 MW structures would (I presume) be large enough to efficiently incorporate the necessary engineering to convert generated excess heat into electricity. Also, while I don't quite understand the underlying technology involved, it is my understanding that the excess heat can be used to produce a significant amount of refrigeration efficiently. It is, in fact old technology - something I suspect Rossi might have acquired some experience in managing during his checkered career. When I weigh both of these factors, the capacity to generate a significant amount of cooling combined with bulk electricity, and perhaps simultaneously at that, it makes more sense for me to speculate that a company like Google would be best poised in incorporating Rossi eCat technology. Seems to me that incorporating a series of 1 MW thermal generators ought to help reduce Google's cooling and electricity bills. They have a huge collection of power hungry servers that need constant care and feeding. My two cents Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:who is the secret big partner of Rossi in USA?
From Jouni, My guess will be Nasa and 1MW Demonstration will be held in Kennedy Space Center, Florida. Great symbol that Rossi looks with his technology forward beyond this planet, and ignores any immediate commercial plans as mere chattering. It is not that far-fetched of a possibility... assuming Rossi can deliver on his promises. Otherwise he may burn up during reentry. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
From Daniel I think with so much money invested and nothing delivered, no independent tests whatsoever, it is hard to think this is not a scam. I disagree. There is also some disagreement on the aspect of how one determines an independent test. BLP would say yes independent tests have been performed. Skeptics, OTOH, would cry foul. IMO, BLP is an honorable company. They believe in their product. What remains to be seen is whether BLP can deliver on their vision. I would speculate that the BLP process, whatever that process might be, is largely defined by perceptions laid out in Randy's grandiose CQM theory. Personally, my perception of CQM is that it probably does reveal certain secrets (extraordinarily so) as to what's happening on the atomic scale. However, that does not necessarily mean that ALL the secrets as revealed in the CQM book are accurate. ... They would easily have money to test all other theories of LENR and come with something useful. It is not in BLP's invested interest to test other theories. As far as BLP is concerned CQM is the only way to go. From their perspective, why bother giving lip service to false prophets. Nevertheless, it remains to be seen who the false prophets are. Often, it's the prophets themselves who turn out to be the last to discover the falseness of their claims. In the end, BLP may still surprise us. They may still pull something interesting out of the hat. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
From Daniel Do you really think the scarcity of experimental results justifies the investment of 60mil$? It is easier to think that they just bribed a few other researchers just to fake results. This amount of money is enough to come with a proff of concept for any form of fusion, even tokamak. Well, you obviously seem to believe it would be easy for BLP to simply bribe a couple of people in order to fake results. Really? I beg to differ. Also, your claim that there exist a scarcity of experimental results does not strike me as an accurate statement either. Granted, experiments published so far may be open to interpretation, including as to who ran them, that does not mean there exist a scarcity. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Black Triangles?
Terry sez: Can it hover? Well... no, but it can disappear! Excerpts: Update 12:29pET- DARPA says it could not regain contact with HTV2 but the hypersonic wedge can terminate its flight autonomously. Update 11:23aET – DARPA has lost contact with the HTV2 Jeez! Are you picky! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:PhysOrg reports on Krivit's latest article...
Some would like to characterize Krivit as a snake. Rossi, particularly. In my view Krivit is simply a cynic. Being a cynic is neither good or bad. It's what one does with one's innate sense of cynicism that determines whether honoring such a perception of their surroundings serves them (and their readership) well - or not. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:PhysOrg reports on Krivit's latest article...
Terry sez: The truly progressive cynic eventually forms a crusty chrysalis from which eventually emerges a jaded dung beetle. IMHO, a truly progressive cynic has a sense of humor. Some cynics make marvelous comedians. About a year ago I recall Mr. Krivit demanding that Mr. Rothwell publicly apologize for something Jed had sed that offended Krivit's sensibilities. I don't recall the particulars of that spat, nor do I care to - only that Jed didn't apologize. Soon after, Mr. Krivit announced that he was leaving the Vort Collective, presumably to avoid being the brunt of what he perceived as additional personal insults lobbed in his general direction - like farts. I perceive Mr. Krivit as working very hard at the task of being the best investigative journalist that he can be. I think he may still achieve that goal. Incidentally, as Dirty Harry once said: A man's got to know his limitations http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070355/quotes Despite the fact that I perceive Mr. Krivit as possessing the sensibilities of a cynic I think he has wisely chosen not to pursue the path of a comedian. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:PhysOrg reports on Krivit's latest article...
I sed: I perceive Mr. Krivit as working very hard at the task of being the best investigative journalist that he can be. I think he may still achieve that goal. I just realized that the way I stated the above could imply that I don't perceive Mr. Krivit as possessing very good journalistic skills. This is obviously incorrect. I should have stated the above as: I perceive Mr. Krivit as working very hard at becoming an excellent investigative journalist. I think he may still achieve that goal. In some corners I suspect he may have already achieved it. Still, I would not recommend Mr. Krivit pursue the craft of comedy. One needs to be able to laugh at oneself. I see little evidence of such a trait in Krivit's public outpourings. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:DGT Continues Playing Dodge Ball
Some personal speculations of my own: FWIW, the one little itch that I can't ignore is why does DGT continue to behave in what strikes me as being distinctly conciliatory in their characterization of Rossi's recent actions. DGT claims they have developed more control and a greater safety margin with their own in-house hyperon designed modules that are presumably based on Rossi's original eCat design. If that is the case why would DGT care if Rossi stays on board, or flies the coop? But that doesn't seem to be the case. DGT, continues to give me the impression that they still need Rossi, perhaps desperately so. If so, why? All we know is that Rossi claims he is still the only individual in sole possession of the magic secret sauce. There is some debate on that matter. In regards to the following PESN link: http://pesn.com/2011/08/10/9501891_Defkalion_Responds_in_Support_of_Rossi/ DGT sez: Defkalion is preparing all of its labs, the industrial production lines and support systems needed for the Hyperion kW range and MW range of products as designed, following all Andrea Rossi's specs on instruments and production machinery, including specialized systems necessary for the preparation, on an industrial scale, of the ingredients placed within the reactor. These are built by Defkalion's scientists and technicians, following the standards, specifications and designs provided and approved by Andrea Rossi himself. IMHO, the above carefully worded statement allows one to INTERPRET a conclusion that DGT possesses a viable secret sauce formula. The point being, it's an INTERPRETATION that may not necessarily be the actual truth, particularly when the lawyers get around to parsing the actual meaning. The point being, as far as I can tell DGT still does not appear to have specifically stated that they are in possession of the actual formula itself - Rossi's catalyst. In the meantime, being in possession of the secret sauce formula would certainly be what I would want all potential investors to INTERPRET as being the truth. Otherwise, why would any investor put out? Cynically speaking, if the above unsubstantiated speculation is reasonably accurate, I could see why DGT continues to remain exceedingly conciliatory towards Rossi. It would suggest that DGT still needs Rossi, desperately so. Jed, I'm curious. Do you have any commentary on this? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Dark matter may be an illusion caused by the quantum vacuum
Terry sez: The positron, being antimatter repels the electron gravitationally and at the same time attracts it electrostatically, so that there is a perfect balance! Hmmm, what are the odds of that? Following up: Also, considering the fact that electrostatic forces are probably a on an order of a gazillion times stronger than equivalent gravitational forces. How is there a perfect balance? Strikes me more like a big asymmetry. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Dark matter may be an illusion caused by the quantum vacuum
Jed sez: I know little about cosmology, but is it not the case that: If dark matter exists the universe is more likely to end in a cosmic crunch, relatively soon. If it does not exist the universe will end with heat death much farther into the future. Just curious about this . . . Freeman Dyson wrote an essay saying that with a large enough reserve of energy civilization might last indefinitely or perhaps he said infinitely long in a heat-death scenario. I do not understand what he had in mind. You have to run out eventually. Regarding some of these newly discovered forces like Dark Matter Energy. I think it gets even messier than that. First there are the four known forces we all love, listed here in order of diminishing strength: 1. Strong (nuclear forces) 2. Weak (beta-decay) 3. Electromagnetic forces 4. Gravity But in recent times we must now tack on two additional hypothetical forces that are presumably based on recent measurements painstakingly correlated from powerful telescopes like the Hubble. These two new forces are listed below in order of diminishing strength. 5. Dark Matter: a hypothetical force, that is attractive by nature in the gravitational sense. This force is supposed to help explain why galaxies spin faster than they should - presumably because there is a lot of unseen, undetectable dark matter milling about producing a lot more gravity than what is seen. - THE BIG CRUNCH. This is where some might wish to evoke a marvelous whimsical essay written by Carl Sagan. The essay is titled The Dragon in my Garage. Jed, since you are an atheist at heart, I think you might enjoy the following essay. It is from another kindred soul. See: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm And finally... 6 Dark Energy. We are told there also exists another hypothetical force called Dark Energy, which seems to be repulsive in the gravitational sense. Dark Energy is supposed to explain why most galaxies are not only flying apart from each other, but that the measured acceleration is increasing. - The BIG CHILL The really weird thing about forces 5 6 is the fact that both forces seems to depend (or manifest) depending on the distance between the physical material itself. In other words corresponding matter within a galaxy is close enough in distance to each other such that the dark matter attractive force is in full effect. However, corresponding matter as measured between the vast distances between galaxies seems to be far enough apart that the repulsive Dark Energy force now comes into effect. Do you understand now, Jed? If so, maybe you can x'plain it to me cuz I still don't get it. I lost track of that dragon long ago. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Swarmanoids
Indeed, this is fertile ground for speculative fiction, especially science fiction. One author I particularly admire, an author who has thought a great deal about the ramifications Daniel and Jed point out, particularly how it might play out on the level of human hive consciousness, is Joe Haldeman. One of my favorite Haldeman novels is a story where he explores the ramifications of humanity confronting another alien species that strongly operates on the collective conscious level. The novel is called the The Forever War. The reason behind the forever war we eventually learn is due to a massive misunderstanding that exists between the way individual humans communicate with other human individuals, and the collective consciousness of the alien race that doesn't know how to communicate on the level of individual human beings. Meanwhile, humans don't know how to communicate on the collective consciousness level either with the alien race. Fortunately, both parties eventually figure it out their misunderstandings, so you might say there is a happy ending - with some reservations. ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War A question I often find myself asking is where does the mechanism (the soul if you will) of self-awareness / self-consciousness reside? Does consciousness or awareness, particularly some level of SELF-awareness, an awareness of being able to make independent choices reside within a single cell paramecium? How about a jellyfish, or within the collective colony-body of the entire ant colony. We assume individual human beings possess the self-awareness trait, though I suspect certain cynics might beg to differ. What about on the level of The Borg? IMHO, certain eastern philosophies, such as Zen seem to do a good job of describing the nature of collective consciousness, or more precisely collective awareness. IMO, the best way to sense such awareness is to stop thinking for a while. Just be. One may soon discover that the you one has always identified with is nothing more than a brief figment of one's own fickle imagination. When that happens one has an opportunity to confront an even more interesting mystery: Why do I still exist. That's when the fun starts. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Retail robots in action
From Jed: Scroll down article for interesting YouTube video. See: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/01/retailrobots/ Jed, I just finished reading Martin Ford's The Lights in the Tunnel, the book you brought to the Vort's attention not long ago. http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/ Thanks for mentioning it. I highly recommend reading it as well. I suspect Ford's take on what's in store for our economy is closer to the mark than many realize. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Inquiring minds want to know... What does Defkalilon's have on hand? Do they possess the equivalent of Rossi's eCat technology in-house, or not. Speculation runs rampant. It's only fitting that I proceed with some finely tuned oration of my own. Without further adieu: I'm willing to speculate that perhaps by October/November Defkalion may demonstrate a prototype - well, a prototype of sorts. However, Defkalion's prototype may quickly reveal to astute observers that even though there appears to be massive amounts of anomalous heat being generated, far more than can be accounted for via through traditional chemistry, the engineering involved, the technology being exploited, may still reveal unacceptably high levels of instability. IOW, the engineering displayed may not be reliable enough to be used out-of-the-box for commercial exploitation in either industrial or private use. IOW, more RD funding is needed. I would speculate that this is what Defkalion hopes to elicit at the speculated October/November dog-and-pony show. They may be hoping that their demonstration will convince targeted investors that it would be a prudent move on their part to sign up and fork over millions of Dollars Euros for additional RD. The eventual payoff: To be the first kids on the planet to cash in on selling cheap and affordable energy to an energy hungry planet. In order to convince prospective investors fork over Defkalion will have to convince them that not only are they working on a highly promising brand new form of energy producing technology, they are WELL AHEAD of any other enterprise working on similar technology. In order for their plan to work the demonstration will have to prove unequivocally that there is no fraud involved nor any kind of scientific deception either intentionally or unintentionally. They will have to demonstrate unequivocally that their prototype doesn't cost much to feed as it goes about the mysterious business of generating far more heat than can be accounted for via the laws of quantum physics as currently understood. Finally, they will have to prove that this brand new technology won't be costly to maintain in the long run, month after month - year after year. Disclaimer: I claim the right to at any time I see fit update my fickle opinions pending forthcoming news of substance. warm Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What is a UFO detector?
David sez: Hi On this page various UFO detectors can be bought? How do they work? What mesurable disturbances are UFOs causing? http://www.imagesco.com/ufo/ufo-detectors.html#ufo-02 David I would recommend purchasing the second article in the list, the one with the cool looking spiral fractal pattern. Great conversation piece. As for detecting UFOs what works best for me is when I remove all the layers of tin-foil from underneath my underwear, and inside my hat. Reynolds aluminum foil is a lot cheaper too. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:1MW Indipendent testing?
From Michele: From JONP. Andrea Rossi September 13th, 2011 at 6:19 AM Dear Malcom Lear: Yes, Warm Regards, A.R. Malcolm Lear September 13th, 2011 at 5:48 AM Hi Andrea, Could you tell us if independent testing of the 1Mw plant is already in progress. Ciao Malcolm Does anyone know where this independent testing is alleged to be occurring at, or is it still an industrial secret? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What is a UFO detector?
From Daniel, Well, given that this is an offtopic subject, when will be you next session with Witch Doctor? Can we suggest questions for you? One can always suggest questions, to paraphrase an answer made famous in the film Ice Station Zebra. ;-) . Depending on the circumstances I may consider them. I have plenty of other priorities however. I also have no idea when I'll get another crack at the Witch Doctor. Could be a long time. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
Mr. Catania, What I found interesting about latest reply was the fact that you did nothing more than restate your previous comment, basically that the effects of thermal inertia in the recorded measurements have not been accounted for. Meanwhile, Mr. Rothwell replied to your original comment by posting thermal measurements that apparently reveal the interesting fact that thermal inertia had already been taken into account when the temperature initially dropped from 131.9 C down to 123.0 C soon after input power had been cut off. But amazingly, five minutes later, measurements recorded a 10 degree increase. Not only that, this sudden increase was apparently HIGHER than the recorded temperature when the input power was still on - by approximately 2 degrees. This implies that any residual effects pertaining to thermal inertia had already been accounted for long ago. The effects of thermal inertia cannot magically make a device suddenly become HOTTER particularly if previous measurements were revealing the fact that the temperature was already in the process of dropping. It therefore make no sense to imply that the effects of thermal inertia could be responsible for a sudden 10 C increase five minutes after all input power had been cut off - especially when the temperature had been previously recorded to have been dropping. BTW, proclaiming that Mr. Rothwell is a fool is no way to go about winning friends and influencing people to your POV. In fact, I suspect your latest actions have done nothing more than to suggest to most here that Jed has probably done a far better job of analyzing the thermal inertia situation than you. Learn to be civil in the presentation of you POVs or get kicked out of this forum. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
Hello again, Mr. Catania, I realize I'm just as guilty of using this term as you, but IMO the continued use of the phrase, thermal inertia to explain the interesting thermal temperature changes tends to confuse the issue more than it helps. Technically speaking, what's happening here has little to do with inertia, certainly not in a mechanical sense. Inertia implies that there are Newtonian/mechanical forces at play. What we are trying to assess here are the effects of Thermal Propagation - how heat transfers (migrates) throughout Rossi's eCat configuration. A more objective study of query would be to perform a Finite Element Method simulation of the thermal effects in order to observe how temperatures are alleged to propagate through Rossi's eCats. Obviously, the computer model would have to be based on the physical properties of Rossi's eCats as accurately as possible. Alas, I suspect there are none on this forum that might possess the dimensional/physical specifications of Rossi's eCats, or the technical know-how on how to run the appropriate FEM s/w. As for me, I have performed thousands of FEMM, (Finite Element Method Magnetic) simulations, but never on the effects of thermal migration. Alas, I can't be of much assistance. With that said, I have read your comments several times. Your first sentence starts out stating: The data after power off are not consistent with a temperature increase from before power off. You continue with additional comments that confuse me even more. Perhaps your command of the English language is not terribly good. I know I'm dyslexic at times, so I try to give allowances the literary grammatical eccentricities of others. All I know is that I have yet to understand what you are trying to say. I do know that you end by saying I'm ...confused if [I] think [I] see anomalous production after power off. That part I get. ;-) Indeed, perhaps I am confused, Mr. Catania. But then, perhaps the confusion is at the other end. Time will tell. I'm content to wait it out and see what develops. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
From Catania: For once? I only been saying that one thing- many times. But you'd better understand that from first principles not from a typo. From: Jed Rothwell Okay, that's probably a typo, as shown in the video. For once Catania is correct. The temperature did not drop suddenly and then rise. I expect it did drop soon, given the loss of 2.5 kW input at a flow rate of 185 ml/min. See my message Video time synced to real time. I will confirm this with Lewan. It has been a constant observation of mine that when Mr. Rothwell's has suspected a potential mistake or perhaps a typo in published data he has been quick to express his suspicions. Jed often quickly seeks to correct previous assumptions, even if it contradicts previous assessments he may have made. Meanwhile, I noticed that Mr. Catania's response to Mr. Rothwell's retraction appears to hinge on assuming a position of superiority by challenging Jed - such that Jed had better understand the first principals. The implication I derive from Mr. Catania's response is that he does not often seem to consider the possibility that his own crafted assessments might occasionally be prone to similar mistakes. I could say something about that, such as: we are only human. Some more than others. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Lewan uploads temperature data for Sept. 7 run
From Horace I wrote: I would not be surprised that most people here, including Jed, feel there are various points which justify skepticism. The problem seems to be agreeing on which ones and what a proper course would be. Not that I expect anyone would take any action based on comments from the peanut gallery. Just to avoid miscommunication, I just realized that I should note that the above refers to vortex-l as a peanut gallery with respect to the Rossi extravaganza. Being a staunch card carrying vortex-l member myself, it seemed pretty clear to me whom you were referring to. ;-) Make mine salted, please. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
Nice to see you back in the sand box, Jones. I wuz beginning to get concerned that you may have been abducted by aliens... perhaps for consultation purposes concerning your legal expertise on human affairs. Rumor has it that the Pleiadians and Zeta Reticulians are sparing over the possession rights to modify the human genome. I heard that the Zeta Reticulians were planning on rolling out another upgrade sometime in 2012, whereas the Pleiadians claim the Reticulians had outright stolen the revised code from their own scientists. Shoot! I was getting ready to mainline Kosmic Consciousness via channeled messages from the Ashtar Command, simply by simply tuning in, but now I guess I'll have to wait another hundred years until this mess is sorted out. Litigation is a bitch. Meanwhile... back in the LENR field. Product placement is everything! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Calulations for 1 MW plant.
Terry sez: I agree with you and Horace. If it can explode, it will explode, and at the worst possible moment (Murphy's law and first corollary). It's quite odd to notice that on the skeptical side of the fence the subject of CF continues to be perceived as a bogus completely unproven source of energy. Therefore, one would infer from such conclusions that Rossi's 1 MW demonstration couldn't possibly harm a fly. Meanwhile, on the other side of the fence many who have followed CF for decades, and whose opinions I've learned to heed, are beginning to raise concerns, such that Rossi's CF technology in its current undeveloped state has the potential to kill innocent bystanders due to the lack of proper controls and engineering. How ironic the division of perception is! It will be interesting to see how this all eventually plays out. Mr. Feyman! Pay no attention to the extension cord! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:A letter from a DoE official about cold fusion
From Jed-Storms; Jed, just so you are clear in your understanding, the response by the DOE has NO relationship to what the person who wrote the reply letter believes. He wrote the OFFICIAL policy of the organization. The official policy determines how the organization will respond to proposals and to questions. Investors and industry typically ask the DOE what they believe. If they say CF is nonsense, no money will be invested because the career of the person in the company making such a decision can be put in jeopardy. Therefore, official policy has a big influence on decisions throughout the system. The DOE, NASA, and the military have access to the same information yet they arrive at different official conclusions. Why do you think this is the case? The reason has no relationship to the evidence supporting CF claims or to personal beliefs within the organizations. The implication seems to be that person or organization that really wants to know if there is anything of value going on in CF research: DYOHW. (Do Your Own Home Work). It's easy for the cynical part of me to wonder of what value does DOE perform these days. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:stopping
Horace, Needless to say... call your doctor or optometrist right away. Could be a number of serious issues. Migraine, retinal detachment, mini-stroke. Don't wait. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]: Rossi sells home to finance demo
From Mark: If this whole thing is a scam, AND the below info is true, then this just doesn't make sense... Rossi's Home Sacrificed for Cold Fusion E-Cat Launch - Only several days ago, Andrea Rossi stated on his blog that he had big financial problems. Now he has revealed that these problems are resolved. To acquire the funds to insure the demo of the one megawatt plant takes place as planned, he has sold his house. (PESN; September 21, 2011) The only answer that makes any sense is that Rossi honestly thinks it works... time will tell. I would concur. If Rossi has mortgaged his home in order to secure funds to finance the highly anticipated demo, what skeptics need to focus on is whether his data correctly or incorrectly depicts anomalous heat. To continue speculating that Rossi is a scam artist is absurd. Is Rossi deluded? ...maybe... but personally I don't think so, and certainly not to the extent that certain skeptics assume must be the case. I suspect there is something substantial to Rossi's claims. The question I keep asking is how stable are Rossi's eCats. I continue to speculate that they may not be as controllable as he would like us to believe. Perhaps that is what the October demo ultimately hopes to address: to secure sufficient RD funding. Perhaps Rossi's real goal wanting to perform a demo in October to prove to potential financiers that his eCat technology is farther along than any of the competition. ...so pony up! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:About the financing of the E-cat
More info: Heading: Rossi's Home Sacrificed for Cold Fusion E-Cat Launch http://pesn.com/2011/09/21/9501918_Rossis_Home_Sacrificed_For_Cold_Fusion_E-Cat_Launch/ Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:About the financing of the E-cat
From Stephen, This is a nice story of a dedicated inventor making large sacrifices in the zealous pursuit of his vision, but is there really any reason to believe it? Rossi has not exactly been a pinnacle of truth in the past. Absent more information I'd tend to lump it in with the tale of the factory which was heated for two years with a Rossi device. A nice story, as I said... with regard to the factory, it's just too bad no former employees chimed in on Rossi's blog to exclaim over the nifty heating plant! http://pesn.com/2011/09/21/9501918_Rossis_Home_Sacrificed_For_Cold_Fusion_E-Cat_Launch/ Without a doubt the Pure Energy System web site is Rossi Friendly. Actually, the site is friendly towards a LOT of exotic alternate energy claims. They also claim recovered technology from crashed UFOs has been deliberately suppressed by world governments. IOW, the web site is not likely to be considered a reliable source of information by those possessing a more conservative POV concerning physics. As for me, being a tad liberal in many of my POVs, I might be a little sympathetic to the idea that certain technologies may very well have been deliberately suppressed, but that is a topic of discussion for a different post. ;-) In my view the Pure Energy Systems web site is an advocate for alternative energy systems and for the inventors who are trying to develop them. They operate in pretty much the same manner that certain web sites advocate for the manifestation of certain political goals, such as those expressed by either the Republican or Democratic parties. Being an advocate is neither good nor bad. It's simply the objective that those in charge of Pure Energy Systems site have chosen to pursue. Take the web site's advocate-ness for what it is and read between the lines. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]: Rossi sells home to finance demo
From Peter: There is no specific point. Anything that is reported about Rossi and his e-cat is absurd and nobody is able to know what is true and what not. Rossi is mercurial. It's not always wise to shoot the messenger. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: Aw: [Vo]:About measurement of steam with Galantini probe
Jed sez: Here is an interesting treatise on being wrong: http://www.amazon.com/Being-Wrong-Adventures-Margin-Error/dp/0061176044 It seems to be human nature to want to be right about what it is that we chose to pontificate on. Unfortunately, arriving at certain opinions seems to be one of humanities' worst traits. How many wars were started due to a difference of opinion? As the book by Kathryn Schultz ironically suggests, we tend to learn a lot more about our environment (and ourselves) by acknowledging and confronting the possibility that some of the assumptions and opinions we strenuously defend might turn out to be dead wrong. Being wrong... acknowledging the fact that we can be wrong about something results in far more growth of the human condition than being right all the time. All too often, and usually unbeknownst to our conscious awareness, we tend to invest a vital sense of our own self-worth in an opinion. We become oblivious to the fact that that the opinion we subsequently defend had been crafted by us. We are oblivious to the fact that we continue to maintain that opinion as if it has acquired a life of its own. We continue breathing life and vitality into that opinion - oblivious to the fact that we can just as easily destroy if we choose to do so. We do not realize that we have given the opinion we created power over our lives. We have essentially become slaves to many of our opinions. They have become the masters of our lives. IMHO, the best scientists, philosophers and teachers of the world understand this all-too-human condition. They do their best never to fall prey to the very opinions they have created. They strive never to forget the terrible ramifications of loosing site of the consequences. I hasten to add, I still find myself constantly at odds with many opinions I have created throughout my life. However, since I have become aware of this little trap, I think I'm getting a little better each day not letting many of the incessant little opinions about this or that issue that I created, rule my sense of self-worth. And that's my o'pinun, so shuv it if ya don't like it. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Will Robots Steal Your Job?
Jouni sez: This article references Martin Ford's Lights in the Tunnel which was discussed here. I have not yet read the article, but one short comment about the topic. That robots are stealing our jobs is not an issue, because we can tax robots and give money to the poor as a basic income. Robots may steal our McJobs, but they will not steal our money. Say what ...tax robots??? Robots will never earn any income. They are slaves. You can't tax income from slaves that never earn income. It will have to be the corporations that all of these employ robots that will have to be taxed with an employment tax. Unfortunately, and particularly within the United States, you can be sure American corporations will resist paying employment taxes. Super conservative political organizations like the Tea Party organization will have nothing to do with it. Nevertheless, governments will have to go after corporations that have systematically thrown out employees in favor of employing robots that don't need to be paid and don't need expensive health insurance. Governments will need to institute some kind of a reasonably fair employment tax system that these corporations must pay. Unfortunately, I suspect most corporations and will vehemently resist any of these kinds of taxation measures. From their POV why would any corporation in their right mind want to be taxed in order to generate income for someone else that from their perspective contributes nothing to the value of their company. Such a perception is, of course, extremely short sighted. By not paying any kind of employment taxes these corporations will essentially sign our country's economic death warrant. They will end up eating their own young and all of us along with them. Too many unemployed will continue to remain unemployed, unable buy any of the very products and services that these corporations now produce through robotics and artificial intelligence. The will end up signing their own corporate death sentences. Hopefully, smarter heads than those running conservative organizations like the Tea Party movement will eventually prevail. Hopefully enough will see the light at the end of the tunnel. So far, however, nobody seems to be willing to look at these issues for what they is. As such, I have serious concerns. This employment/taxation issue is discussed in the book by Martin Ford, Lights in the Tunnel Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Another cold fusion generator?
Terry sez: Keshe is quite, er, eclectic! http://keshefoundation.com/home.html http://www.keshefoundation.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2t=229 I'd also add: A lot of talk. A lot of dreaming. But where's the beef? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Re: Regarding Rossi and NASA (+ some Piantelli news)
Rizzi sez: ... I think that the end of the hoax is approaching. I doubt we are witnessing a hoax, though it's possible I am in error. Another thought came to mind in regards to the megawatt reactor design: Why for their first generation of products are they building a 1 MW module? Many have stated many times that a smaller less complicated configuration that generates a more modest amount of heat of say 10 - 50 kilowatts of energy would be more than sufficient to prove their point. One theory as to why the 1 MW reactors is being designed for prime time is to prove to prospective investors that the technology can be scaled up immediately. That may be true, but perhaps a more subtle point might be that by assembling a bunch of eCat cores under one hood the engineers increase their chances that at least a decent number of the individual reactors will work. Maybe there are far more individual eCat cores than what ought to be necessary in order to generate 1 MW of heat under the hood. Maye the engineers have discovered the fact that statistically speaking only about 50% - 75% of the individually assembled reactor cores work. I wonder if they have installed enough additional reactor cores to more-or-less guarantee that the entire module will, statistically speaking, generate at a minimum 1 Megawatts of heat. Just a thought... and I suspect it has already been raised by others here. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Regarding Rossi and NASA (+ some Piantelli news)
Nevertheless, Rossi continuing to describe Krivit as a snake is not doing himself any favors. IMO, to constantly reveal such an incredibly raw emotional side of himself to the general public, particularly in the midst of trying to convince others as to the accuracy of his controversial scientific evidence... it does not serve Rossi's goals. I think it hinders them. Incredibly so. I wish Rossi would stop emphasizing the scales he perceives his critics as displaying and simply state the facts evidence he has managed to accumulate. As I've suggested before, by nature Krivit strikes me as a cynic. Being a cynic is neither a good nor bad trait. What it boils down to is whether Krivit can utilize his innate sense of cynicism as effectively as he can in the pursuit of investigative journalism. The problem for Rossi is that as he continues to describe what he perceives as Krivit's scales, all that tends to do to a cynic-at-heart is to give them the feeling that they have cornered a warm blooded Italian prairie dog. It tends to drive a cynic to go in for the kill. In the final analysis, if Rossi should be so lucky as to eventually pull a magic eCat out of his hat, it will not be due to his outrageous flamboyant style of web blogging. Rossi's speculated eventual success will instead be entirely due to an accumulation of solid evidence, the kind of evidence that can no longer be dismissed by self-appointed skeptics, snakes, and hoax believers. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: Re: [Vo]:Regarding Rossi and NASA (+ some Piantelli news)
From Peter: ... There seems to (hostile) competition between Piantelli group and Rossi. Krivit in his website gives the impression to be independent, but his sponsor is unknown and he seems to prefer the piantelli group over others. You seem to be speculating, and therefore insinuating that Krivit's sponsor(s) might have direct or indirect ties to Piantelli's group. I seriously doubt this. When I was still a BoD member for Krivit's NET organization his sponser(s), at least during the time when I was still a BoD, seemed pretty independently-minded to me. I could be wrong, but I doubt Krivit's sponsorship would have changed all that much since my departure. Based on what others have said Piantelli's group has been approaching the publication of their work in a far more academic professional manner than what Rossi has been doing. Therefore, why wouldn't ANYONE tend to be more favorable towards Piantelli. To many, Rossi's flamboyant approach could be described as akin to that of a carnival barker. No wonder he makes many suspicious... ESPECIALLY cynically-minded investigative reporters. Rossi seems to believe Rossi [Did you really mean Krivit???] was acting as a spy for his progress and industrial secret during the demonstration, that he gave to Krivit. Again, we see Rossi's emotional side getting the better of him. He is not doing himself any favors letting his emotions dictate supposition speculation concerning the actions of others for which probably knows very little of. I think Krivit is biased to support his sponsors and gives not untrue, but biased reports about LENR for money reasons. Again, I disagree, based on my own past interactions with Krivit. At least during the time when I was a BoD member Krivit did NOT appear to have financial sponsors who actively supported any particular theory, including WLT. Granted, Krivit does seem to give many the impression that he favors the Widom-Larsen theory. However, what Krivit seems to show, at least to me, is a willingness to revise his opinion if additional evidence were to come about that throws water on the WLT. I suspect Krivit would change his tune if a better, new and improved theory came about. But right now, why does he (why does anyone) need to do that. At present nobody really has the inside track. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Re: Regarding Rossi and NASA (+ some Piantelli news)
From ecat builder: There is NO evidence that Rossi's newer generation E-Cats have ever or will ever explode. The concerns I've seen raised do not necessarily have anything to do with Rossi's reactor cores - whether they work or don't, or are likely to explode. The concerns I've seen raised have far more to do with the delicate management of a whole lot of highly pressurized steam - a megawatt's worth of steam. Ladies and gentlemen, please don't try this at home! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Regarding Rossi and NASA (+ some Piantelli news)
From Peter Heckert S. V. Johnson When I was still a BoD member for Krivit's NET organization his sponser(s), at least during the time when I was still a BoD, seemed pretty independently- minded to me. I could be wrong, but I doubt Krivit's sponsorship [I meant sponser(s)] would have changed all that much since my departure. If the sponsors are not known he cannot claim independence. There may still be some miscommunication between us. Let me try to clarify my POV. Krivit most certainly knows who his financial sponsors are. How could he not. NET is his organization and his organization alone. To the best of my knowledge the sponsors Krivit revealed to his NET BoD (when I was still a BoD member) did not strike me as having any kind ties to any particular energy theory. I don't suspect things have changed all that much since my departure. For that matter, the nature of the business these sponsors performed had nothing to do with the production of energy. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT forum appears to be open again
Rich sez: snafu -- from WWII, Situation normal -- all *ucked up I should say something snarky like Thank you so much for expressing your opinion, Mr. Murray. but the truth of the matter is that I have endeavored to express my own opinions as well. Therefore I should let live. And of course, my educated opinions could be wrong. OTOH, when it specifically comes to the matter of Rossi Mr. Murray consistently appears to give me the impression that his aren't. Am I wrong? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
