Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Results of the 2017 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees election

[Austin Hair]

I normally hate +1s, but I want to congratulate Doc James on his
reappointment to the board. I hope we've all learned from his previous
term, and can work together to benefit the movement.

With love,

One of your list administrators, who would rather not have to deal with
fiascos.

On May 23, 2017 02:12, "Isaac Olatunde"  wrote:

> Congratulations to the newly elected members and many thanks to members of
> the election committee.
>
> Regards,
>
> Isaac.
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 3:12 AM, Tito Dutta  wrote:
>
> > Many congrats to all the members. Good wishes and all the best.
> >
> >
> > On 22 May 2017 at 11:53, Rogol Domedonfors 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Indeed.  It would be appropriate for members of the Board to state now,
> > in
> > > public and for the record, that they accept the democratically
> expressed
> > > wishes of the community and will reappoint James at the due time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 12:18 AM, MZMcBride  wrote:
> > >
> > > > matanya moses wrote:
> > > > >Congratulations to María Sefidari (User:Raystorm), Dariusz
> Jemielniak
> > > > >(User:pundit), and James Heilman (User:Doc James) for receiving the
> > most
> > > > >community support. Subject to a standard background check, they will
> > be
> > > > >appointed by the Board at their August meeting at Wikimania.
> > > >
> > > > For those wondering, two of the people who supported James' removal
> > from
> > > > the Board of Trustees in December 2015 are still serving: Alice and
> > > Jimmy.
> > > >
> > > > And the two people who opposed the resolution (Dariusz and James) are
> > now
> > > > among the three people being reappointed.
> > > >
> > > > * https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:James_
> > Heilman_Removal
> > > > * https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Board_of_Trustees
> > > > * https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Former_Board_of_
> > Trustees_members
> > > >
> > > > MZMcBride
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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[Wikimedia-l] List administration

[Austin Hair]

​​
After what Asaf and I agree was a sufficient time for a call for
candidates, we've appointed two new list administrators.

Please welcome Shani Evenstein and John Mark Vandenberg as your new list
overlords.

Austin
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

[Austin Hair]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> When I first read this I didn't think twice about it, because Gerard has
> often gone over the 30 message limit, so nothing new. But after reading
> later comments I see that he was disrespectful? I don't think so. I checked
> and indeed he didn't go over his limit in January. The only disrespectful
> thing I could find in his recent edits was his remark that he is not a
> collaborator because his cultural heritage assumes "collaborators" are
> "nazis", which is offensive in English. I would like to point out here that
> the word collaborator really does mean nazi in Dutch. It's one of many
> translation challenges, so there is even a Wikipedia article that spells it
> all out:
> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboratie
> It's little things like this that make adding English-language Tech news to
> the Dutch Village pump a bit controversial btw.

Thanks for the note, Jane. Everyone should keep cultural differences
in mind--it's a source of strife on this list, to be sure, to say
nothing of my marriage, and I suppose the entire Internet.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] List management

[Austin Hair]

I didn't receive this message at all, but yes, Alessandro raises two
good points.

I'm UTC+(1|2), and Asaf is UTC-(7|8). The time zone really isn't a
deciding factor—it's a "nice to have."

As Katie said, the Mailman page is current. If there's a wiki page out
there with incorrect information, let me know, or just fix it
yourself. :)

Austin

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Katie Chan <k...@ktchan.info> wrote:
> The individual mailman list page shows the email address of all the list
> admins near the bottom:
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>.
>
> "XYZ list run by ADM1 at email.com, ADM2 at email.com"
>
> KTC
>
> On 09/02/2017 05:48, Alessandro Marchetti wrote:
>>
>> Hi,is there a link where a generic subscriber can find a ("decently"
>> updated) list of sysops? in
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Administration I find no
>> specific information about that. Is this on purpose?
>> Also how can we know what are their "usual time zones" if we want a
>> profile to apply to fit a gap? I mean, can you give us a disaggregated
>> analysis, such as "currently two are UTC+1, two are UTC-6 and one is UTC+2".
>> Just curious.
>>
>>
>> Il Giovedì 9 Febbraio 2017 6:26, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>
>>  I regret seeing THO fade away. I found him to be likable, polite, and
>> competent.
>>
>> I think well of Shani, and as she already has some experience with
>> moderation duties, I would like to second her (self-)nomination.
>>
>> Pine
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Austin Hair <adh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We've just had a bit of turnover of our list administrators. In order
>>> to get moderation going smoothly again, I've added Asaf Bartov as an
>>> admin. I don't think that decision will be controversial.
>>>
>>> Richard has resigned for his own reasons, after putting in more than
>>> his fair share of work here. Thehelpfulone has been removed following
>>> a prolonged silence.
>>>
>>> I would like a third active moderator. You can volunteer on this
>>> thread, or send a message to wikimedia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org.
>>> This should be No Big Deal, and while there are technically no
>>> requirements, getting the reference is a bonus.
>>>
>>> Austin
>>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] List management

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 6:38 AM, Joseph Fox  wrote:
> Thehelpfulone hasn't died. :) He's been hugely busy in real life, is all.

Please don't take my factual statement (sorry, law student) to be
throwing shade on THO. He's a great guy, and I understand that of late
he hasn't had the time to commit to this particular job.

Austin

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[Wikimedia-l] List management

[Austin Hair]

We've just had a bit of turnover of our list administrators. In order
to get moderation going smoothly again, I've added Asaf Bartov as an
admin. I don't think that decision will be controversial.

Richard has resigned for his own reasons, after putting in more than
his fair share of work here. Thehelpfulone has been removed following
a prolonged silence.

I would like a third active moderator. You can volunteer on this
thread, or send a message to wikimedia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org.
This should be No Big Deal, and while there are technically no
requirements, getting the reference is a bonus.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Ray Saintonge has died

[Austin Hair]

Despite over a dozen years of friendship, I simply don't feel
qualified to eulogize Ray as others can and already have. I'll simply
say that over those years, I came to value his wisdom immensely as we
worked together on Wikimedia organization regarding chapters and other
topics. Christine and Darren have my most profound condolences; it is
certainly no understatement to say that he made a positive
contribution to the world in ways that his quiet character would, to
some, fail to adequately represent, and I will miss him.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The end

[Austin Hair]

Please consider this thread officially closed.

Continuing it further can have no possible positive value; on the
contrary, it's actively hurtful. If you want to start a new thread
discussing the issues in a generic way, go ahead, but be aware that
bullying will not be tolerated.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Wikimedia Foundation ED search steering group created

[Austin Hair]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:23 AM, Pine W  wrote:
> I think that I've said enough in this thread, so I'll pause my involvement
> here for the time being.

Fortunately for you, I actually read all the way through this thread
and got to this part.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter: Issues needing addressing by the Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 3:50 AM, Philippe Beaudette
 wrote:
> It is deeply unsettling to have my WHAT?  I confirmed no such thing, and
> your misrepresentations do you no favors.
>
> One thing I have learned over the last few years is that it is impossible
> to have a conversation in a spirit of openness when one party so wildly
> misrepresents the statements of the other. That's not good faith dealing.
>
> Therefore, I won't be continuing this discussion with you.

It's only been fifteen minutes, but it seems that Richard managed to
beat me to moderating him.

He won't be continuing any discussion, until he can bring something
approaching sanity to the table.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] My posts going to spam

[Austin Hair]

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:48 AM, Michael Snow  wrote:
> On 2/29/2016 5:37 AM, Jimmy Wales wrote:
>>
>> I'm switching to this email address for posting, because apparently
>> there is some kind of weird problem between yahoo and google such that
>> gmail users see all or most of my messages in their SPAM folder.
>
> It's not just Google either. My provider uses Yahoo's service for email, and
> yet Jimmy's messages to the list, and as best I can tell only Jimmy's from
> the ymail account, appear to get bounced and never even reach my spam
> folder, let alone my inbox.

Just to be clear, this is not a list admin issue—Jimmy's ymail address
was initially moderated as a new subscriber, but we unmoderated him as
soon as he posted from it. The rest is on gmail, unfortunately.

It's also not the first time we've seen it. Others have had issues
posting from Yahoo addresses in the past.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Anybody alive?

[Austin Hair]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> OK. There are seven of us (six in this thread and Kevin in the other one).
>
> We need just the rest ~1000 to find.
>
> I think we should find first at least one of the list admins, so we
> could find the names of the persons we are searching. Austin?
> TheHelpfulOne? Richard (from Australia)?

I can promise that nobody's abduction flag has been set. (But I admit
that I had to double-check.)

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Shared list

[Austin Hair]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Andrea Zanni  wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 6:31 AM, Gerard Meijssen 
> wrote:
>
>> You are not the only one who is told that dissent is not appreciated. It is
>> ironic that when openness and shared values are considered, these same
>> values are swept under the rug when people are not in line with "common"
>> thought.
>>
>> Apparently thoughts are not so common and certainly not universally shared.
>> When community degenerates in universal enforced thought, are we still a
>> community?
>>
>
>
> Gerard, you're only one, to my knowledge, always fulfilling the soft quota
> of 30 emails per month, +1 or 2 message. In February you're already at 31
> [1].
>

For the record, Gerard absolutely understands the 30-post limit, is
always very careful to keep it +/- 2 messages, and yes, I could still
see a little more restraint on his part. We do have a sort of detente,
and yes, he's already been warned privately this month.

This said, he does contribute positively to the list, and I even
consider him a friend. But even friends need a little nudging from
time to time, it's true.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why we changed

[Austin Hair]

I think everyone should remember that sarcasm, and tone in general,
frequently do not come through across the wires, as it were.

For that matter, please, stay civil. I'm happy to report that I
haven't had to moderate anyone, yet, but I think we can all appreciate
the current circumstances.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why we changed

[Austin Hair]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 1:22 AM, Lila Tretikov  wrote:
> In practice this means I demanded that we set standards for staff
> communication with our community to be professional and respectful. It
> meant transitioning people, shutting down pet projects, promoting some but
> not others, demanding goals and results to get funding. This level of
> change is necessary to set up our organization to address the challenges of
> the next decade.

I could take issue with several things you've said on this list, Lila,
but I've tried to remain neutral for the sake of fairly moderating the
conversation.

I really don't think I can let this one go, though. Would you please
name one "pet project"—actually, I don't think it's so much to ask to
name them all—that's had to be shut down?

And, for that matter, why? I honestly cannot think of any reason that
this could not be truthfully and immediately answered.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Your questions about KE.

[Austin Hair]

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Theo10011  wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016, Bence Damokos  wrote:
>>
>> Just as a courtesy to those who follow the topic here on the mailing list,
>> can you please send an update to this list whenever there is new content on
>> the page, or at least when there are significant changes?
>
> This seemed relevant.
>
> Brion gave some background on KE [1] and if anyone remembers, I think this
> might have had something to do with this [2].

This is indeed highly relevant, and I would have probably missed it
for a few more days if not for the heads-up. Thanks, Theo.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Message from Arnnon Geshuri to the Wikimedia Community

[Austin Hair]

Even if it is a bit long-winded, I could not agree more. Thank you, Mike.

Austin

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Michael Snow 
wrote:

> Hello Arnnon,
>
> It is good to hear something directly from you. I am sure your intentions
> in the position you were appointed to are positive and supportive. Yet
> while you may be entirely sincere in your desire to help, I find it
> extremely difficult to see a path forward in which your contribution will
> bring the benefits that may have been contemplated.
>
> Your statement here carries very much the right tone, but is unfortunately
> rather lacking in substance. About the events in your career that have been
> the focus of so much concern, you suggest that there have been
> misconceptions and mitigating considerations, but say nothing about what
> those misconceptions or mitigating considerations might be. I fully
> understand that for both legal and ethical reasons, you may not feel free
> to elaborate, and I do not ask that you violate any such obligations.
> However, the inability to provide more information is itself a major
> handicap for the role you are in. In fact, a requirement of silence becomes
> doubly destructive because it both provides more fuel for conspiracy
> theories and denies the Wikimedia Foundation the tools to respond
> effectively.
>
> I suspect that many of the possible mitigating factors have already been
> touched on by others - from the limited picture we have of the recruiting
> practices in question, it is not completely clear what level of
> responsibility should be assigned to you, whether you could reasonably have
> done otherwise in your position, or to what extent you should have
> understood their legal implications. Nor do I believe that one mistake (you
> do not say it was a mistake, and presumably again you are not in a position
> to admit that, whether or not you might wish to) should necessarily
> disqualify anybody from the Board. However, as Asaf so eloquently explained
> on this list a couple weeks ago - which I hope you saw, if you've been
> following the conversation as you say - it's nearly impossible to get
> people to leave things fully in the past without an acknowledgment of the
> mistake. I understand you want to earn the trust of the community. But if
> you cannot do what is needed for this trust to develop, then you simply
> will never be able to earn it from many people. This is another way in
> which silence becomes disabling. You might manage for people to move on
> enough that you can function in your role, but the issue will continue to
> hang over everything you do.
>
> The Board has indicated that you were appointed for your expertise in
> human resources. I agree that your career includes some impressive
> experience and you would be a highly qualified candidate in that sense. I
> can also appreciate why the Board might have felt a need for your kind of
> expertise. While the Foundation was at a somewhat different point during my
> tenure, it has faced a variety of challenges in this area, and these types
> of issues were prominent in my thinking about the organization, both as
> Chair and afterward. But under the circumstances, I struggle to see how
> your appointment would lead to a net benefit for the Foundation. Your
> skills and contacts might bring something that is lacking, but the
> problematic pieces of your background also reflect directly on the same
> area. Considerations such as staff morale have fluctuated over time, but I
> cannot imagine how having someone associated with these practices on the
> Board would be anything but a negative influence on it. Whether they would
> acknowledge it to you, the rest of the Board, their managers, or anyone at
> all really, I think this is an extremely serious problem. It seems like it
> would take an incredible amount of good work from you to overcome the
> damage your mere presence on the Board is likely to cause.
>
> I do hope you can translate your passion for this movement into some sort
> of positive contribution. Assuming you cannot speak directly to your
> personal history in a way that will satisfy people, I hope you will at
> least try to explain more clearly what you anticipate bringing to the
> table. In the context of this particular appointment, however, it is a
> heavy weight you would need to counterbalance, and there may be other and
> better ways of approaching this.
>
> --Michael Snow
>
>
> On 1/26/2016 11:07 AM, Arnnon Geshuri wrote:
>
>> It has been almost three weeks since my appointment to the Wikimedia
>> Foundation Board and I have read the feedback and comments from
>> representative members of the community.  My first reaction was how
>> amazing
>> the community is in its vibrant culture – there is direct and honest
>> dialog, celebration of diverse ideas, debate and counterpoints, and an
>> overall genuine passion to ensure that the WMF sustains itself for another
>> fifteen years and beyond.   

Re: [Wikimedia-l] COI - was Re: [Board-l] Fwd: WMF etc.

[Austin Hair]

And just so everyone's clear, Florence's new subscription has already been
whitelisted.

Austin

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Fæ  wrote:

> Sorry you've had to change email Florence.
>
> (Tangent) Could those who use *Yahoo email addresses* ask their
> friends to check if their emails regularly end up in spam boxes? I
> have found several Yahoo users who write to this list getting marked
> as potential trojans by Google and I only find their emails a month
> later, by accident, if ever.
>
> P.S. this is not a Google conspiracy theory.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 14:41, Florence Devouard 
> wrote:
> > Le 21/01/16 20:05, Dariusz Jemielniak a écrit :
> >>
> >> hi Florence,
> >>
> >>
> >> Then I was astonished when I discovered that Dariusz, who has been a
> board
> >>>
> >>> member for over 6 months, was not aware of the existence of the
> Conflict
> >>> of
> >>> Interest Policy, which include a pledge of commitment and an obligation
> >>> to
> >>> disclose potential conflicts of interest. A policy voted by the board
> >>> several years ago and mandatory for all board members. It is apparently
> >>> not
> >>> enforced anymore, even though it is an approved policy and obviously a
> >>> good
> >>> governance practice. This makes me think the board is not operating
> >>> properly anymore on this serious matter.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> just to clarify this issue: I have been signing the COI
> >> pledges/disclosures
> >> over the last 4 years, as the FDC member, and later as a Board member.
> >> Apparently I did not make myself clear that I think it is worthwhile to
> >> consider PUBLIC statements (as proposed in the email I was replying to),
> >> and not statements in general (which we do have). It may have left you
> >> with
> >> a reading that I was unaware of the COI policy as a whole; I apologize
> for
> >> my clumsy phrasing.
> >>
> >> best,
> >>
> >> dariusz
> >
> >
> > My apologies Dariusz; This point was a misunderstanding on my part after
> > reading this msg from you :
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-January/080945.html
> >
> > I am really happy to read your clarification and see that this point is
> in
> > fact not an issue. Good :)
> >
> > I actually stayed in confusion because I commented it, but you never gave
> > any further feedback.
> > But some people warned me my emails got stuck in spambox...
> > I changed my email address for the lists this morning... sent a
> message...
> > and it got stuck in moderation !
> > Hopefully this one will work out...
> >
> >
> > Florence
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] How To Recover From Having Made A Mistake [a reminder]

[Austin Hair]

I just wanted to pile on along with the three +1s I just approved in
the moderation queue.

Austin

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 7:37 PM, Asaf Bartov  wrote:
> Hello, everyone.
>
> It occurs to me this might be a good time to recycle this piece of advice I
> have had some past occasions to offer some newcomers to the movement:
>
> *So you've made a mistake and it's public...*
>
> Step 0:
> Understand that there is no point in pretending you have not made a mistake.
>
> Step 1:
> *Think* about the mistake you have made.  What led you to make it?  Were
> you acting on bad information? Without sufficient information? On
> intuition? Were you pressed by a deadline or by a strong opinion from
> someone else?  Were you following a broken process?  Did you act on the
> basis of circumstances you wish were the case rather than the circumstances
> that are in fact the case?
> (if it helps, consider writing down your answers to these questions,
> privately.)
>
> Then, think about what can be redressed/undone/reverted about your mistake.
>
> Step 2:
> *Think* about the prospects of making this mistake, or a mistake of its
> kind, again.  How likely is it?  Based on learning from this mistake, what
> steps are you able to take to mitigate or reduce the odds of its
> recurrence?  Of those steps, which are you *willing* to take?  Of those,
> which can you take right now, before responding in public?  Which are you
> ready to commit to, longer term?
>
> Step 3:
> Armed with your best thinking from Steps 1 and 2, write a concise(!) public
> e-mail acknowledging (as clearly and crisply as possible) --
> a. that you have made a mistake
> b. what the mistake was, as precisely as possible (e.g. not "I used bad
> judgment" but "I neglected to look at relevant data before deciding to fund
> Wikimedia Antarctica")
> c. what you have learned from making this mistake.
> d. what steps you have already taken to redress the damage or undo the
> results of your mistake.
> e. what steps you are going to take to mitigate or reduce the odds of a
> mistake of this sort recurring.  (Include timelines for specific actions,
> if possible/applicable.)
> f. invite comments on your understanding as reflected in this e-mail.
> Explicitly encourage people to tell you if they think you've missed the
> point or if one of your intended actions is inadvisable, insufficient, or
> can otherwise be improved.
>
> Step 4:
> Actually follow-through on the redressing/undoing actions and on the steps
> you've committed to taking.  Take steps to ensure follow-up on steps that
> cannot be taken at once (e.g. if one of your corrective steps is to ensure
> X gets discussed in your next Annual General Meeting, set appropriate
> reminders to make sure that you actually discuss that by the time that AGM
> happens.)
>
> Important notes:
> 1. Do not hesitate to ask for help at any step of this process.  Either
> reach out to people whose judgment (and discreetness, if necessary) you
> trust, or publicly acknowledge you're having trouble with something (e.g.
> "Hi, folks. I'm thinking about this mistake, and I have a hard time
> figuring out how to balance the need for fresh data with the amount of time
> it takes to generate and review that data.  Does anyone have some thoughts
> on how to best do that?")
>
> 2. In the public note, and throughout the process, be sure to *talk like a
> human being*.  Avoid jargon; avoid sounding like your note has been
> prepared by a Damage Control Specialist.  Just tell it like it is.  People
> know the difference.
>
> That's it.  It's not as hard as it sounds.
>
> *Q:  *(this part isn't recycled)
>
> Q: Should I really go through this whole thing every time I make a mistake?
> A: Ideally, yes.  And it doesn't have to take very long, if you are in the
> habit of being honest in your own mind.  However, as with everything, apply
> your good judgment, and use whatever abbreviated version of this you deem
> appropriate.
>
> Q: Wouldn't following this result in drama and upset the community?
> A: No.  On the contrary.  Our community understands humans are fallible,
> and responds *very well* to (what it perceives as) honest admissions of
> error, commitments to improve, and (most of all) demonstrated learning.
>
> Q: Still, there would be some drama, no?
> A: Yes, there may be some drama, in the short term.  Have we mentioned
> humans are fallible?
>
> Q: So, wouldn't it be better to silently learn the lessons and move on?
> A: No.  Sunlight is the best disinfectant, as Judge Brandeis observed.
> Proper handling of mistakes is a sterling quality in anyone, and
> particularly important in a leader or public servant of any kind.  It pays
> long-term dividends.
>
> Q: What should I do when I see someone else is making a mistake?
> A: When you see others making mistakes, help them *see* them (first of all)
> and deal with them (e.g. by recycling this text, or by independently
> offering your analysis and answers to Steps 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What happened on the Board of Trustees?

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Anthony Cole  wrote:
> I hope this person is blocked from posting again here. Utterly
> inappropriate.

He's on moderation, which means each of his posts to the list will be
held and must be approved individually. As a rule, we don't like to
outright ban people, or use moderation punitively.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Changing the subject line

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 8:41 AM, MZMcBride  wrote:
> I'm amused that neither of you seemed to follow your own advice here,
> starting and continuing a tangential (meta-)discussion without changing
> the subject line to create a new thread. We'll all strive indeed. :-)

You've got me there. I'll try to do better next time. :)

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What happened on the Board of Trustees?

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:41 AM, Comet styles  wrote:
> honestly, WMF
> has taken a  nosedive since Sue left and left the organisation in the
> hands of Lila who has failed as a leader..not to mention her
> 'baby-daddy' has been banned from most wikimedia wikis as well as IRC
> for talking nonsense and is constantly using his blogs to attack the
> same organisation his 'ex' is trying to run..

This past week has obviously been intense, and I understand getting
riled up, but until now the discussion on this list has remained
remarkably civil in spite of it.

I don't consider Wil to be in any way relevant to the current
discussion, but more to the point, this is a plain slur which adds
nothing to the debate. I'll continue letting your posts through as
long as they're civil and productive, but you're on moderation for
now.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

[Austin Hair]

Having waited two days for any kind of meaningful response from either
the Board or from individual trustees, I have to say that Kat's
comments (unsurprisingly) nailed it.

I mean, seriously, nobody googled him?

Austin


On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Kat Walsh  wrote:
> I wish the best for the new board, and for the movement. But I am
> troubled to learn of this.
>
> I have always welcomed the appointed seats on the board--in my
> experience they brought useful perspectives and experience with their
> view from the outside, and I don't expect them all to begin their
> tenure as perfect representatives of the priorities and ideals of the
> Wikimedia movement as the community-selected members are.
>
> But as they are full voting members, participating in all decisions,
> we have always expected them to share key values, and probably the
> most important of those is integrity. It's always hard to judge
> beforehand; what you really really want to know is how someone would
> act in a situation they haven't yet been faced with. But if the news
> reports are true (or even just mostly true) about Arnnon Geshuri's
> role in the staffing scandal, then this is a disappointing choice by
> the WMF board. (Of course, someone who refused to go along with it
> probably would not have been visible to the selection
> committee--uncompromising ethical standards make it much harder to get
> and keep a position of responsibility and expertise in most
> organizations; the exceptions exist but less commonly than I'd wish,
> and I hope we're among them. But this is probably a systematic failure
> in recruiting for us.)
>
> The reason this bothers me so much--enough to break my list
> silence--is that I think integrity is the most important and most
> difficult thing for a board member of this organization. One of the
> key things that distinguishes Wikimedia from other entities is that it
> does not take the easy path: it does not sell the privacy of users, it
> does not make restricted content deals, it does not believe influence
> over content or governance should be able to be bought. If these
> decisions were easy and came without tradeoffs or pressures everyone
> would make them, but they don't; we see all over that Wikimedia is an
> outlier, not the norm, while others make decisions that look good in
> the short term but are damaging in the long term. Organizations with
> tremendous reach and influence--such as Google and Wikipedia--have a
> great responsibility not to take actions that systematically harm the
> people that rely on them. To know that someone at such an organization
> participated in something unethical in this way does not give me great
> confidence in them for leadership in Wikimedia.
>
> I don't envy the current board the problems they are faced with, and
> recognize the difficulty in recruiting for it given the level of
> commitment involved--and I don't doubt that the new appointee has much
> to recommend him. But despite the wealth of experience he would bring,
> if the situation is as it seems to be, I cannot be supportive of this
> choice.
>
> -Kat
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>> Upon hearing of Arnnon's history at Google, I confess to being surprised to
>> the point of a long silence.
>>
>> If these news reports are true, this is disturbing to say the least.
>> Whether he was happy about it or not, it appears that he chose to
>> participate in illegal activity in a prominent role as a "Senior Staffing
>> Strategist", and described a Google employee's noncompliance with the
>> illegal scheme as "an error in judgment". I cannot think of an excuse from
>> an HR professional that I would accept for this.
>>
>> Dariusz, you said in your statement that was published in the Wikimedia
>> Blog that WMF "considered dozens of candidates from all over the world,
>> with not-for-profit and technology experience, and the highest professional
>> standards.” I would be interested to hear how you reconcile "highest
>> professional standards" with the prior actions of Arnnon,
>>
>> Lila, you said that "Kelly and Arnnon bring a special combination of
>> expertise, integrity, and love for our mission." I am interested in hearing
>> how you reconcile this assessment with the reports about Arnnon's role in
>> this illegal scheme at Google.
>>
>> Looking at the WMF situation more broadly in light of the Board's removal
>> of James and its surrounding circumstances, I am very disappointed with
>> what we are learning and I am losing confidence in the governance of WMF. I
>> am considering strategic options for the community.
>>
>> Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

[Austin Hair]

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Fæ  wrote:
> Hello everyone, I would like to put out a friendly reminder that good
> practice is to keep threads on topic within reason, and to create new
> discussion threads for distinct tangents or complete spin off
> discussions.
>
> "Community Tech Team" and "Lila's performance" are interesting, and to
> be fair they deserve their own threads. If your email to this thread
> does not mention the appointment of Arnnon Geshuri as a new WMF
> trustee (see thread title), it is worth considering which thread it
> ought to be posted under, or whether it is time to create a new
> subject line.

Not exactly coming from the source I would expect, but indeed, please
keep your comments germane to subject line. (Starting new threads is
entirely appropriate, and welcomed.)

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] Defence of the personality rights of Daniele Ganser

[Austin Hair]

We had already warned him off-list, and as a non-member I don't
believe any of his posts to wikimedia-l actually went through
(although they obviously went somewhere). Still, he would certainly be
wise to take your advice to heart. :)

Austin


On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Lodewijk  wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Please refrain from posting to so many lists at once. That is considered
> inpolite and annoying.
>
> From your email, I seem to miss the actual question you try to ask, and the
> point you're trying to make. You seem to refer to some kind of 'movie' we
> should all see, because it explains a legal proceeding? But all that
> without explaining what it is actually all about. And then you seem to
> expect an answer.
>
> I hope you're not too disappointed that nobody will actually answer your
> unasked questions.
>
> Kind regards,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:34 PM, Paul Müller 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Friends, hello mrs. tretikov,
>>
>> unfortunately, I was reported the causa of DANIELE GANSER vs. Wikipedia
>> German.
>>
>> So, I feel obliged to inform you about the strange behavior of special
>> admins `Phi and copilot`in
>> the german wikipedia. For ensurance the reputation of wikipedia, it will
>> be necessary
>> to defend the personality rights of Daniele Ganser.
>>
>> Please check the problem and clear the keeping of the internal rules of
>> wikipedia.
>>
>> For further information, please see this video:
>> Die dunkle Seite der Wikipedia, Ein Film von Markus Fiedler und
>> Frank-Michael Spee
>> (The dark Site of Wikipedia)
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHfiCX_YdgA
>>
>> by the now 300.000 clicks!
>>
>> I will trust in Your Seriosity and will look forward to your answer.
>>
>> Yours Sincerely
>> Paul Müller
>>
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>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Old maps of Jerusalem released

[Austin Hair]

These are fantastic. Great work.

Austin

On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Jaime Anstee  wrote:
> So cool! Thanks for sharing, Michal.
>
> --
>
> Jaime Anstee, Ph.D
> Senior Strategist
> Wikimedia Foundation
> +1.415.839.6885 ext 6869
> www.wikimediafoundation.org
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> *https://donate.wikimedia.org *
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Michal Lester 
> wrote:
>
>> I am thrilled to share with you that The National Library of Israel had
>> > released a collection of 200 high-resolution unique maps[1] of Jerusalem
>> > in collaboration with Wikimedia Israel. This collection of ancient maps,
>> > spanning from 1486 to 1947, contains a variety of styles and languages.
>> The
>> > maps released were celbrarted by a Mapathon in the National Library of
>> > Israel, a writinig contest in NOWP (initiated by Wikimedia Norway)[2] and
>> > a post in the Wikimaps community blog[3].
>> > The maps are beautiful! Take a peak.
>> > Happy holidays for those of you who celebrate at this time of the year!
>> >
>> > 
>> > [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Laor_collection
>> > [2]
>> >
>> https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ukens_konkurranse/Ukens_konkurranse_2015-52
>> > [3] http://wikimaps.wikimedia.fi/
>> >
>> > *Regards,*
>> >
>> >
>> > *Michal Lester,*
>> >
>> > *Executive DirectorWikimedia Israel*
>> > *http://www.wikimedia.org.il   *
>> > *972-50-8996046 ; 972-77-751-6032  *
>> >
>> >
>> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Sick of the subject "(no subject)"

[Austin Hair]

I won't speak for him, but I think Richard was venting more than
making a serious threat. Assuming this is indeed unintentional, nobody
has anything to worry about.

Austin

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:12 AM, K. Peachey  wrote:
> I think that is a tad inappropriate, when it's been pointed out it's most
> likely a bug in gmail causing it.
>
> You can always create a filter in your email client of choosing if you
> don't want to see what, the two(?) threads that are active atm.
>
> On 4 December 2015 at 19:55, Richard Ames  wrote:
>
>> If anybody posts another message  or reply with the subject "(no
>> subject)"... they go on moderation for at least a week.
>>
>> Richard.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Community consultation on the future of Wikimania

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Ellie Young  wrote:
> A lot of work has gone into preparing for  the consultation.It will be 
> going out December 14.  We are looking forward to getting everyone's feedback 
> in the weeks after and into early January.

Is there a particular reason it's being delayed until the 14th?

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [GLAM] Video: "Wikipedia, an introduction - Erasmus Prize 2015"

[Austin Hair]

I understand and even sympathize with your position, although not your
outright hostility. (Please keep that to a minimum, by the way.)

As others have said, the recognition of Adele Vrana as one of the
three laureates accepting on behalf of the Community, and with it the
explicit recognition of the project she's led, has made the position
of the Erasmus Committee clear. There was nothing "smuggled in" to a
video "at the very end," as it were.

As for WP0 itself, you are free to oppose WMF initiatives and even
discuss them on this list, but only so long as the goal is meant to be
productive. In other words, don't hijack a thread to flog a dead
horse. (I have no say in what you write to the Stichting Praemium
Erasmianum, of course.)

Thank you,

Austin


On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Jens Best  wrote:
> Well, then this is a cheap success for the propaganda for a project started
> by the Foundation which has nothing to do with the community which is
> creating and editing the Wikipedia.
>
> - WP0 is a clear violation of net neutrality and therefore undermines the
> ground on which an open croudsourcing project is based.
>
> - Also the low numbers of involvement through WP0 are evidence that this is
> a pure marketing project run by the Foundation for the Foundation and
> realiter doesn't contribute to the big ideas with which it is sold.
>
> - Additionally the Foundation isn't answering questions about the limits
> and ending of WP0 for over 1,5 years now. A project - officially sold to
> bring the poor of the Global South into Wikipedia - is spreading in
> developed countries where its only purpose is to give the "partnering
> access provider" a marketing campaign named "Wikipedia for free".
>
> If the Erasmus Prize is really essentially connected to Wikipedia Zero
> (which I still don't think) than maybe somebody has to inform the office of
> the Praemium Erasmianum Foundation about the numbers and the facts of this
> questionable endevaour. I still hope that the prize was recieved because
> Wikipedia is the biggest cultural project mankind every started.
>
> J
>
>
>
> 2015-11-26 20:01 GMT+01:00 Yaroslav M. Blanter :
>
>> On 2015-11-26 19:48, Jens Best wrote:
>>
>>> Nice try, GerardM,
>>>
>>> but I don't think that the Erasmus Prize was given to Wikipedia because
>>> some people in the Foundation made same questionable deals with some
>>> access
>>> providers in the Global South. Zero-Rating is a clear violation of the net
>>> neutrality principle and many NGOs in the Global South do not appreciate
>>> that WMF is undermining these principles for pushing the brand Wikipedia.
>>>
>>> Spreading the free knowledge by undermining the principles on which the
>>> web
>>> became great is wrong.
>>>
>>> And the video is much better without this WP0-propaganda in it.
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>
>> Actually, Wikipedia Zero was explicitly cited in the laudation when the
>> prize was awarded. We may like it or not but it was an integral part of the
>> prize.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Celebrating Parisian culture and libertarianism

[Austin Hair]

This thread went to a bad place surprisingly fast, even for this list.

I understand that emotions are high, but please keep your tempers in
check and your discussion on-topic. Whatever you may think of Fæ's
proposal, I don't think it was intended to provoke a religious
argument, which I hope everyone can recognize as being outside the
scope of wikimedia-l.

Thanks,

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Securing access to Wikimedia sites with HTTPS

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Yana Welinder y...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 I should also mention that while we try to be as transparent as possible in
 all our work (including holding community consultations around all major
 legal policies and providing frequent updates on our work), there are very
 limited situations where public discussions could actually hurt free access
 to Wikipedia. If you have thoughts about the evolving censorship landscape,
 feel free to email me directly, if possible via encrypted email.

Would you mind clarifying which encryption method? S/MIME? PGP?

I was actually going to reply, because what you said puzzled me, but
this is the only PGP key I could find for you on the public
keyservers:

pub  4096R/FFF81E5E 2015-06-01 *** KEY REVOKED *** [not verified]
   Yana Welinder ywelin...@wikimedia.org

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What's cool?

[Austin Hair]

On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Trillium Corsage
trillium2...@yandex.com wrote:
 I wasn't going to join in, not wanting to affect Fae's situation with my own, 
 but reading the latest emails he was actually concerned with the UK list, so 
 I'll go ahead.

 Would someone mind taking me off moderation as well? I see what the issue was 
 in the first place, and will not do it again. I think it has been much more 
 than a year since then.

You had one job, man: don't attack people on the mailing list.

You lasted a little more than two weeks. Since you obviously don't see
what the issue is, after all, and I don't know what to expect from you
(although I hope I can be forgiven for admittedly suspecting more of
this), I'm flagging this address for moderation again.

Best of luck with your next sockpuppet.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Community health (retitled thread)

[Austin Hair]

As Richard says, there's no way to get a quick count from the admin
interface. It certainly isn't most of the 1510 subscribed addresses,
despite all new subscriptions being moderated by default.

Looking at my archived messages for this week, it appears that we
average 2-3 held messages per day, which normally get passed along
within a few hours at most. I try to unmoderate people as I can, but
quite a lot of people subscribe, never post, and just stay there. More
power to them, of course.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation of Trillium Corsage, was Re: Moderation of Fae

[Austin Hair]

On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Trillium Corsage
trillium2...@yandex.com wrote:
 I wasn't going to join in, not wanting to affect Fae's situation with my own, 
 but reading the latest emails he was actually concerned with the UK list, so 
 I'll go ahead.

 Would someone mind taking me off moderation as well? I see what the issue was 
 in the first place, and will not do it again. I think it has been much more 
 than a year since then.

Fair enough. You've definitely been more civil of late, so this is a
totally reasonable request.

 Beyond my own case, I echo Fae that there really should be some sort of 
 process and communication with the moderated user about A) what precisely he 
 or she did, B) whether the moderation is permanent, and C) what he or she can 
 do to become unmoderated again.

I try to be as open and direct as possible about this when I moderate
somebody with cause—as opposed to simply being moderated by default,
which is the case for all new subscribers. Regardless of why
somebody's flagged for moderation, the way to change that is basically
the same: be nice, and a moderator will probably unflag you when you
either ask or he's see you come through the queue enough to know that
you'll be civil and and won't (say) hijack the list in the name of
Elbonians Against Corruption or whoever they were.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation of Fae

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
 Sorry, there was a typo there. I intended this to go to wikimediauk-l
 where I have been on moderation since last year.

That's a relief. The first thing I did when I saw this topic was log
into mailman, both because I was sure you hadn't been on moderation
here for months, and because I hadn't been notified of any new
messages in the queue.

Good luck. I'd vouch for you if I thought it'd make a difference.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA

[Austin Hair]

Okay, but seriously, please stop resurrecting this thread. If you
think it's important that something be done, start a new one, and
*actually suggest something* rather than just copying articles from
somewhere else.

Austin

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
 Article in Eurasianet today: Wikipedia Founder Distances Himself from
 Kazakhstan PR Machine

 http://www.eurasianet.org/node/72831

 ---o0o---

 [...]

 On March 20, Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales hosted an Ask Me Anything
 http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2zpkxx/we_are_jameel_jaffer_of_the_aclu_wikipedia/cpl4maq
 conversation
 (AMA) on Reddit, a social-networking platform. Before long the audience was
 questioning Wales’s and Wikipedia’s roles in helping to improve
 Kazakhstan’s image. Back in 2011, Wales awarded
 http://www.eurasianet.org/node/66343 a once-and-future Kazakh government
 employee, Rauan Kenzhekhanuly, the inaugural “Wikipedian of the Year” for
 his work with WikiBilim, a Kazakh-language platform criticized both for
 receiving state funds and for publishing multiple articles toeing the
 authoritarian government’s line. At the time, Wales told EurasiaNet.org,
 “As far as I know, the WikiBilim organization is not politicized.”

 But during the AMA, Wales backpedaled on his decision to name Kenzhekhanuly
 the first Wikipedian of the Year.

 Wales was on the receiving end of a fresh round of criticism last year when
 Kenzhekhanuly was named deputy governor of Kazakhstan’s Kyzylorda
 region. During the AMA, a commenter asked Wales if he would have bestowed
 the award had he known Kenzhekhanuly would go on to serve as deputy
 governor. “If I had known in 2011 that someone would get a job that I
 disapprove of in 2014, would I refuse to give them an award in 2011?” Wales
 responded. “Yes, I would have refused to give that award.”

 Wales also clarified that Kenzhekhanuly “was not a government official” at
 the time of the award – which is, technically, true. However, according to
 Kenzhekhanuly’s LinkedIn profile
 https://www.linkedin.com/pub/rauan-kenzhekhanuly/24/8b7/b16, before
 receiving the award he had served both as a policy adviser to the governor
 in Kazakhstan’s Mangystau region, as well as first secretary at
 Kazakhstan’s embassy in Moscow. After the AMA, Wales said by email that he
 was “not aware” Kenzhekhanuly had held those positions.

 [...]

 ---o0o---
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA

[Austin Hair]

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:26 PM, Steven Walling
steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:
 These off topic emails about the same subject Andreas grinds his axe about
 perpetually are pretty annoying. Can moderation do something please?

I'm not sure what forum would be more on-topic, if not this one. I
think this particular discussion should have been forked into a new
thread three or four messages ago, but apart from that, he's remained
civil and hasn't done anything to warrant moderation. (If you've read
his messages, in fact, he's not just repeating himself, and has even
proposed concrete solutions.)

Feel free to add him to your e-mail blacklist, but one user finds him
'pretty annoying' has never by itself been a reason to cut someone
off from the list.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people

[Austin Hair]

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote:
 2015-03-13 11:56 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk:
 On 13 March 2015 at 09:06, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote:

 Fae, you are aware that this is NOT the list for en.wp, right?

 Perhaps you missed the part of Fae's email which read:

 I did not. The place for such announcements is the village pump of
 various projects, using Global delivery. Out here this is at best
 reaching a tiny minority of interested people, at worst plain old
 spam.

I dunno. I found it both informative for the broader community and
on-topic for this list. That it's used by enwiki admins was pretty
obviously not his main point.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediameta-l] Bye

[Austin Hair]

On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Cristian Consonni
kikkocrist...@gmail.com wrote:
 2015-02-24 15:52 GMT+01:00 Lane Rasberry l...@bluerasberry.com:
 On English Wikipedia I have met with resistance in documenting crowdfunding
 projects. I would like clarity on the extent to which the Wikimedia
 community feels that it is acceptable to discuss crowdfunding in Wikimedia
 community information channels.

With more and more Wikimedians engaging in crowdfunding, I suppose we
can talk about whether the mailing list for Wikimedia movement
organization is the place to advertise in this way. For my part, I
don't think a simple (i.e., without any additional context) please
check out this Indiegogo is any different from hey, check out my
blog, so when the last one came through the queue I rejected it
without much thought. It certainly wasn't done with any prejudice.

 As far as this mailing list [i.e. Wikimedia-l] is concerned I can say
 that Wikimedia-related crowdfunding projects have been discussed here
 in the past.

 The first example is probably the The Vanamo Online Game Museum[1]
 campaign and the last is a project to collect funds for a Wimiedian
 photographer whose equipment was stolen[2].
 Not to mention the WikiCheese campaign[3] by Wikimedia France which
 generated more than some 50 messages on this list.

That's true. In the case of the former, the post was never held for
moderation, and it was *so* not a big deal that I didn't think twice
about that one, either. WikiCheese was a bit of fun that made us all
smile, and I guess if you really wanted to analyze it (I don't), it
was a project that invited broader participation and benefited the
community as a whole.

But, again, I really didn't care either way. The only reason this came
up here is because the latest poster had been put on moderation, and
some people are still unhappy about that.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Annual Report from the Wikimedia Foundation

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 On Jan 29, 2015 4:35 AM, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote:

 On an unrelated note, is there a particular reason we're highlighting
 two of our (more than two) former board members in the bottom section?


 Yes: it is that unlike the other former board members, those two were on
 the board during the year the report covers.

That's what I initially thought, but I was sure the board and
reporting terms were staggered differently. It does indeed look like
there was an overlap of a month or two; my mistake for not actually
checking

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Annual Report from the Wikimedia Foundation

[Austin Hair]

I know Gerard is always saying this, but... wow. Yeah. It kind of hits
you in the face.

On an unrelated note, is there a particular reason we're highlighting
two of our (more than two) former board members in the bottom section?

Austin

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hoi,
 This is a celebration of Wikipedia.. It is as if all the other projects do
 not exist. If that is the Wikimedia Foundation, I feel very much left out.
 It is as if everything else the Wikimedia Foundation stands for does not
 matter.
 Thanks,
  GerardM

 On 28 January 2015 at 21:07, Heather Walls hwa...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Dear everyone!

 I’m happy to share with you the Annual Report from the Wikimedia Foundation
 for 2014 -- Knowledge is a foundation https://annual.wikimedia.org.[1]
 We
 published last Wednesday, but I'm just catching up enough to send the
 email. (Pardon me.)

 This year, we are telling the story of Wikimedia in the context of free
 knowledge, and releasing it as web version (wiki, too!) so that we can
 share that story with even more people.

 Knowledge is a foundation. It is a foundation for human potential, a
 foundation for freedom, a foundation for opportunity. Our mutual project,
 Wikipedia, is part of the global support structure for free knowledge.

 Most importantly, people are the foundation of Wikipedia. We are inspired
 by thousands of contributors who support the projects, and are excited to
 share a little bit about Dr. Netha Hussain, Jacek Halicki, Dumisani
 Ndubane, Dr. Adrianne Wadewitz, Ihor Kostenko, Dorothy Howard, Ram Prasad
 Joshi, and Jake Orlowitz.

 Thank you for the myriad of contributions you make, from coding to writing,
 editing to programs, and uploads to donations.

 We've written a blog post about the process we went through this year, and
 how we settled on the concept of 'knowledge as a foundation.'[2]

 You can participate in the wiki version of the report here, and soon help
 with translations [3]

 Thank you very very much,

 Heather  the Wikimedia Foundation Communications team


 1. https://annual.wikimedia.org
 2. http://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/01/21/annual-report/
 3.

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation/Annual_Report/2013-2014

 --
 Heather Walls
 Communications Design Manager I Wikimedia Foundation
 149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105
 heat...@wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia France] WikiCheese crowdfunding - Let's photograph 'em all

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Christophe Henner
christophe.hen...@gmail.com wrote:
 PS: no cheese pun in this email, but there was an abondance of puns above.

You decided to have Murcian us? That's too bad; we're whey overdue in
the humor department.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why WMF should reconsider the 3-month gender gap

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 10:59 PM, mcc99 mc...@hotmail.com wrote:
 But if you think you or anyone else can intimidate me into staying quiet when 
 I see something fundamentally wrong happening, guess again.

 Now to put it politely, at least to start with:

 Go climb a tree.

Well... that was kind of rude. I really was trying to be helpful.

I definitely wasn't trying to intimidate you into staying quiet. You
do know that I'm the one that clicks approve for each and every one
of your posts to the list, right? (Yes, including this one. Your posts
were being held automatically as a new subscriber.)

Please be aware that although discussions on this list regularly
become heated, we do at least strive for a better tone. That I go
climb a tree certainly isn't the rudest suggestion I've heard even
this week, but I'd appreciate it if you tried a bit harder to be
civil.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Warning: Wikimedia-l Google Group

[Austin Hair]

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:
 On 15-01-09 09:26 AM, Richard Symonds wrote:

 I believe mailman allows people to be added without confirmation
 too!

 It does, our list admins are just too polite to do that to people.

This one is, at least. Wikimedia-l requires e-mail confirmation when
subscribing. (But, yes, that's an option in the software.)

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: White House response to Aaron Swartz petition

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 For those unfamiliar with American political history in its brief
 existence, this is entirely expected. The power over who has the right to
 hire and fire whom has been the center of our politics since near
 inception[1] as well as crucial points in national development[2].

 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison
 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Andrew_Johnson

And, of course, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowsher_v._Synar (so
don't bother writing your Congressman).

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Warning: Wikimedia-l Google Group

[Austin Hair]

Yes. As stated in my original messages, you can (and should) use the
report link at the bottom of the subscription e-mail.

Austin

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 6:41 AM, Nurunnaby Hasive
nhas...@wikimedia.org.bd wrote:
 +1 Karthik. Better to report the group.

 On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Karthik Nadar karthik...@wikimedia.in
 wrote:

 I think it will be better if most of us can Report the Group.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why WMF should reconsider the 3-month gender gap

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:30 PM, mcc99 mc...@hotmail.com wrote:
 But in future, I think I'll sign in more often, esp. now that half the 
 WikiGods have my uid on an alert trigger now. :)

I think the question is only being asked because you're displaying a
profound lack of understanding of how Wikipedia and Wikimedia work,
not only in your recent proposal, but in commenting on this sensitive
topic.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, and you've been polite in
expressing it—that goes a long way, at least with me. So please don't
think that it's a matter of demanding a certain number of WikiCred
points before the WikiGods will let you sit at the WikiGrownups table,
or anything like that. Just understand that this issue has a lot of
people on edge, and at this rate it won't be long before politely
ignored becomes less ignored and less polite.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why WMF should reconsider the 3-month gender gap project-related decision

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Frankly, there's not a single thing I've read, or a single objection I've
 seen raised, that wasn't about how unnecessary it is to focus on women.  I
 don't think we've ever heard that about the global south, or non-European
 languages, or a lot of other areas where there are acknowledged biases.

Maybe you're only talking about this specific fork of the thread, but
I was happy to see that the previous discussion managed to stay
on-topic and largely avoid the specific social issue. I saw a lot of
people with specific criticism of the decision, completely separate
from the cause. (I appreciate that Leigh was still clinging to that
idea while the thread was being dragged into the abyss, only to be
insulted in the process.)

Having addressed that, I want to say to everybody that Wikimedia-l is
a lot of things, not all good, but the previous conversation was at
least on-topic. Does anyone seriously think that this one is? Please,
please don't make me start content filtering based on words like
feminazi or misogynist.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Honorary degree for Wikipedia + meeting

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:09 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote:
 It is an honorary doctorate, not quite the same. As I understand it, it is
 not connected to a discipline.

So, wait... you're saying that Wikipedia is not a real doctor, and I
*shouldn't* be relying on it for medical advice?

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Warning: Wikimedia-l Google Group

[Austin Hair]

Yes, it almost certainly is, and this isn't new to us. We dealt with
this exact type of attack as recently as last month.

Austin

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan
srik.r...@wikimedia.in wrote:
 This is probably related to a group that calls itself India Against
 Corruption.
 A similar tactic was employed by them on the India Community.
 You may look up archives of Wikimediaindia-l and Commons-l.
 You could also read up on
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/India_Against_Corruption_sock-meatfarm

  You may have already received a message indicating that you've been
 added to the Wikimedia-l Google Group; if not, you likely will soon.

 In case it's not clear, this Google Group is in no way affiliated with
 Wikimedia-l, the Wikimedia Foundation, me, or anybody you'd ever want
 to be friends with.

 If you do find yourself subscribed, I strongly urge you not to engage
 in any way. Report it to Google (not to me or the list) as an abusive
 subscription using the link at the bottom of the message, and leave it
 be.

 If you find yourself being impersonated or wrongly implicated in this
 latest round of troublemaking, don't fret. Nobody will hold it against
 you, and in fact you'll have everyone's sympathies.

 Austin

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[Wikimedia-l] Warning: Wikimedia-l Google Group

[Austin Hair]

You may have already received a message indicating that you've been
added to the Wikimedia-l Google Group; if not, you likely will soon.

In case it's not clear, this Google Group is in no way affiliated with
Wikimedia-l, the Wikimedia Foundation, me, or anybody you'd ever want
to be friends with.

If you do find yourself subscribed, I strongly urge you not to engage
in any way. Report it to Google (not to me or the list) as an abusive
subscription using the link at the bottom of the message, and leave it
be.

If you find yourself being impersonated or wrongly implicated in this
latest round of troublemaking, don't fret. Nobody will hold it against
you, and in fact you'll have everyone's sympathies.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason

[Austin Hair]

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That is
 the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new, it
 exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
 situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual Editor
 in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the gap
 is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
 world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
 different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
 enough.)
 Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.

I think the gap is just as big in the English-speaking world, and that
if asked (that kind of says something, I think) a lot of people would
finger it as a priority—if nothing else, the content of traffic on
this list would appear to back that up.

Austin

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[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia Announcements] Board approval of FDC Recommendations Round 1 2014-2015

[Austin Hair]

Forwarding at Frieda's request.

Austin


-- Forwarded message --
From: Frieda Brioschi fbrios...@wikimedia.org
Date: Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:19 PM
Subject: [Wikimedia Announcements] Board approval of FDC
Recommendations Round 1 2014-2015
To: wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org


Dear members of the Wikimedia community,


On behalf of the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation, I
write to share the news that we have approved [1] the full slate of
the FDC’s Round 1 2014-2015 recommendations [2] for the Annual Plan
Grants. In this round, 11 Wikimedia organizations will be receiving a
total of  $3,817,956 in grants. This leaves approximately $2 million
for organizations likely to apply for Annual Plan Grants in Round 2 of
this year. [3]


One organization, Wikimedia CH, submitted an appeal to the Board
regarding their funding recommendation. [4] We carefully reviewed this
appeal, including their proposal, the inputs into the FDC’s proposal
review process, and the notes from the deliberation on the chapter's
proposal. We appreciate the effort that its Board and staff put into
creating the proposal and the appeal. Ultimately, however, we decided
not to override the recommendation of the FDC.


We’re conscious and appreciative of the fact that WMCH is investing a
lot in Kiwix — a valuable offline project for access to Wikipedia and
one that we know is being used in innovative ways. This project indeed
required us to evaluate the financial sustainability of all technical
projects, which is currently not explicitly guaranteed by unrestricted
grants; we will review  our grant strategy to see how we can
accommodate these needs. We have asked the WMF staff to provide a
recommendation on how to adapt the grant program to help ensure
continued funding of certain projects when they are considered
high-priority to our movement goals and needs. Subject to our review,
such a process may be appropriate in the future for projects like
Wikidata and Kiwix.


We congratulate all eleven organizations on their grants, and we look
forward to seeing what the year ahead will bring. We know that the
volunteers, staff, and boards of these organizations are working hard
to advance the goals of the movement.  We thank them for their work in
doing so.


We continue to optimize the Annual Plan Grant/FDC process and
anticipate further improvements to the APG grant program in 2015 based
on our ongoing impact analyses of grants as well as input and feedback
from the communities.


Sincerely,


Frieda and Bishakha, on behalf of the WMF Board of Trustees



[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Board_decisions/2014-2015_round1

[2] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2014-2015_round1

[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals

[4] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Appeals_to_the_Board_on_the_recommendations_of_the_FDC#Wikimedia_CH

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Gendergap-l] Another Admin falls +1

[Austin Hair]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@shlomifish.org wrote:
 Dear Fae,

 On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 13:27:31 +
 Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:

 Please ignore. This is yet more malicious and disruptive Job Jobbing
 of Russavia, and for all I know of shlomif too.


 Just for the record, I did not send the email quoted below («Another Admin
 Falls +1») today (24-December). This seems like something that Russavia, or
 whoever sent the email, is misattributing to me. So please don't accuse me of
 malicious and disruptive Job Jobbing.

Just to clear something up, Fæ wasn't accusing you, but rather
suggesting that perhaps you were another unfortunate casualty.

I'm investigating other possibilities of putting this to an end, but
in the meantime, if anyone on this list finds their messages held for
moderation, please don't assume that you're suspected of anything. And
if you see more such messages on the list, for everyone's sake, just
leave them be—don't take the bait.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Our final email

[Austin Hair]

I have, reluctantly, turned on moderation for new subscriptions, and
told mailman to e-mail the admins whenever anyone subscribes.
(Subscription will still be open.) It's my intention to unmoderate—as
quickly as possible—anyone who's posted a few times and established
that they're doing so in good faith.

I hope this will blow over soon, and everything can go back to
normal. Meanwhile, I don't think the new subscriber workload is more
than we (the admins) can handle.

Austin

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 23 December 2014 at 08:43, Golf Today li...@golf.indiatodaylive.com 
 wrote:
 Attention : LILA TETRIKOV
 trolling crap removed

 Thread hijacking is plain rude. As for Joe Jobbing Wikimedians, it is
 a despicable and malicious form of cyberbullying.

 Can't someone come up with a way of slapping these prawns down for good?

 Fae
 --
 fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Our final email

[Austin Hair]

(Just to be clear, everyone already subscribed is still free to post.
Only new signups going forward will be moderated by default, and only
until they've demonstrated that they're not sockpuppets.)

A

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have, reluctantly, turned on moderation for new subscriptions, and
 told mailman to e-mail the admins whenever anyone subscribes.
 (Subscription will still be open.) It's my intention to unmoderate—as
 quickly as possible—anyone who's posted a few times and established
 that they're doing so in good faith.

 I hope this will blow over soon, and everything can go back to
 normal. Meanwhile, I don't think the new subscriber workload is more
 than we (the admins) can handle.

 Austin

 On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 23 December 2014 at 08:43, Golf Today li...@golf.indiatodaylive.com 
 wrote:
 Attention : LILA TETRIKOV
 trolling crap removed

 Thread hijacking is plain rude. As for Joe Jobbing Wikimedians, it is
 a despicable and malicious form of cyberbullying.

 Can't someone come up with a way of slapping these prawns down for good?

 Fae
 --
 fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Our final email

[Austin Hair]

Mailman clobbers HTML sent to this list (for good reason), but if
you'd like to see it in all its technicolor glory, here's the e-mail
in question: http://bit.ly/1zCPGQZ

(Sorry, future list archive perusers, that's not a permanent link.)

Austin

On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 12:08 AM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote:
 This email was sent by WMF fundraising today.
 I'm embarrassed. Read the email first, then I'll tell you why, below.

 *Da:* Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia don...@wikimedia.org
 *Data:* 17 December 2014 10:15:56 pm GMT+1
 *A: [email address removed]*
 *Oggetto:* *Our final email*
 *Rispondi a:* don...@wikimedia.org

 *If all our past donors simply gave again today, we wouldn't have to worry
 about fundraising for the rest of the year.*

 Dear [name removed],

 This is the last email reminder you'll receive. We hope the response to
 today's email will let us end the fundraiser. Please take one minute to
 keep Wikipedia online and ad-free another year
 http://links.email.donate.wikimedia.org/ctt?kn=3ms=NDc2NDYzOTUS1r=NzU3Mzc1MDY0NjcS1b=0j=NTgzMzA0NDgwS0mt=1rt=0
 .

 To protect our independence, we'll never run ads. We receive no government
 funds. We survive on donations from our readers. If all our past donors
 simply gave again today, we could end the fundraiser. Please help us forget
 fundraising and get back to improving Wikipedia.

 We are deeply grateful for your past support. This year, please consider
 making another donation to protect and sustain Wikipedia
 http://links.email.donate.wikimedia.org/ctt?kn=3ms=NDc2NDYzOTUS1r=NzU3Mzc1MDY0NjcS1b=0j=NTgzMzA0NDgwS0mt=1rt=0
 .

 https://donate.wikimedia.org
 http://links.email.donate.wikimedia.org/ctt?kn=3ms=NDc2NDYzOTUS1r=NzU3Mzc1MDY0NjcS1b=0j=NTgzMzA0NDgwS0mt=1rt=0

 Thank you,
 Jimmy Wales
 Wikipedia Founder

 PS: Less than 1% of our readers donate enough to keep Wikipedia running.
 Your contribution counts!
 *DONATE NOW »*
 http://links.email.donate.wikimedia.org/ctt?kn=3ms=NDc2NDYzOTUS1r=NzU3Mzc1MDY0NjcS1b=0j=NTgzMzA0NDgwS0mt=1rt=0
 --


 our final email?
 This is the last email reminder you'll receive?
 Surely that should be qualified with ... this year.??
 If that weren't embarrassing, what about...

- Using *bold* AND *italics *AND yellow backgroud colouring all at the
same time in the heading.
- Sending an email on the 18th of December saying that if ALL past
donors simply gave AGAIN today [my emphasis] then you wouldn't need to do
any more fundraising for the rest of the year, i.e. for 2 weeks!!
- On the one had it says we'll never run ads but in the sentence
immediately beforehand pleads help to us stay ad-free another year.
- Does the phrase Less than 1% of our readers donate enough to keep
Wikipedia running mean a) that less than 1% of readers donate, which is
enough to keep us running, or b) that less than 1% of readers who have
donated, donated enough to keep us running (implying that the other 99% of
donors didn't donate enough)?
- Finally, this email is addressed from Jimmy, but when you receive a
thank you for donating email, it's addressed from Lila. [I should note
that the thank you for donating email IS very positive and
mission-oriented].


 *Effectiveness != Efficiency*
 One of the official WMF Fundraising principles
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_principles is *minimal
 disruption*...aim to raise money from donors *effectively* [emphasis is
 original].
 I believe that this wording has been interpreted by the fundraising team to
 mean **do the fundraising as quickly as possible. However, I contest that
 less disruption and more effective is not the same as shorter
 fundraiser. i.e.: Effectiveness != Efficiency.

 I am sure that these desperate fundraising emails/banners are *efficient *at
 getting the most amount of money as fast as possible (they have been honed
 with excellent A/B testing), but, they achieve this by sacrificing the core
 WMF fundraising principle of being *minimally disruptive. *In fact, they
 actually appear to be following a principle of being as *maximally 
 *disruptive
 as they can get away with, for as short a time as required.

 Can the WMF to say how minimal disruption and effective fundraising is
 defined in practice, and how they are measured?

 *Shareable vs Desperate*
 On the same day that the WMF communications team release this inspiring and
 positive year in review video
 https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/12/17/wikipedias-first-ever-annual-video-reflects-contributions-from-people-around-the-world/,
 this fundraising email sounds negative and desperate. It is all about not
 advertising and staying online for another year.

 Couldn't the year in review video have been used in the fundraising email
 to tell a positive story about all we have achieved this year? That's the
 kind of thing Wikimedians will want to share and feel proud about, not
 something that almost bullies you to donate out of 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to fix Commons

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote:
 I do not see why I should be wasting more time for IAC.

Then please don't; there's enough nastiness in this thread as it is.

Thanks,

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to fix Commons

[Austin Hair]

I assert that you're absolutely disrupting this mailing list. I have
banned this address, and will ban any others that surface from you or
your tens of thousands of bot—sorry, members, intent on disrupting
the list to pursue whatever agenda it is you're trying to shove in
everyone's faces.

Austin

On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Bruentrup claus.bruent...@gmail.com wrote:
 And you assert that I personally did all those things ?

 And you do not acknowledge then IAC is an actual public movement /
 organisation, with tens of thousands of subscribers all connected by
 internet and with similar ideologies, all upset with Wikipedia. eg.
 like Eastern European mailing list,  Church of Scientology etc.

 Unlike them, my client is only concerned with a single article India
 Against Corruption from which the chief author, Sitush, backed out
 during the agreed mediation and could not defend his malicious edits,
 leading to this surge of indignation being expressed against Wikipedia
 and off it.

 We await a reply from OTRS or Ms.Tretikov's office to our client's
 emails reporting the IP infringements.

 BRUENTRUP

 On 12/14/14, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote:
 On 2014-12-14 14:05, Bruentrup wrote:
 And that will magically make all the infringements of IAC's IP at
 Commons somehow acceptable and usable ?

 If you have reliable hard evidence of disruption and socking by /
 against IAC, carried out from India, please share it with us so that
 my clients can report it to the law enforcement agencies, as they
 regularly do, to identify and prosecute the culprits.

 Please report yourself to the law enforcement agency first for spooling
 this mailing list last week and adding people to a google group without
 their consent (and for acting so using the name of a different list
 contributor).

 In the English Wikipedia, I personally blocked from editing several
 accounts from your sockfarm.

 I do not see why I should be wasting more time for IAC.

 Thank you for your attention.

 Cheers
 Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to fix Commons

[Austin Hair]

That's true of most project-specific discussions, but in this case, I
don't think the answer to Commons isn't open to policy discussions
is Go start a policy discussion on Commons.

As long as Commons is meant to be a repository for the whole movement,
I think it is fairly topical here.

Austin

On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
 I cannot see the point of raising questions about how Commons works here
 rather than on Commons.

 All of these points have been raised before and discussed on the village
 pump.

 Other threads on this list were argued to be about multiple projects, this
 is not.

 Fae
 On 13 Dec 2014 16:06, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

 Jane Darnell wrote:
 No, tagging is different. GerardM blogged about this with the example of
 horse. You can tag a photo as being of a horse by putting it in the
 horse category, but in no time it will be filed under some subcategory of
 horse. There are relatively few images in the top horse category.

 This is one of the most baffling parts of Commons to me. Why is it a
 problem to have images of horses in Category:Horse? You seem to be
 describing a social problem (it will be filed under some subcategory [by
 a person]), not a technical problem. If people are vandalizing files by
 removing useful categories, we should tell them to stop immediately.

 Moreover, most pictures of horses are not even in the horse category tree,
 but are categorized under some GLAM donation category and have never been
 sorted into any other category.

 This doesn't make any sense to me either. There's no real limit to the
 number of categories that a file can have. Why not have both
 Category:Horse and Category:Donated_by_some_institution? What's the
 technical issue here?

 The concept of categorizing is also based on existing categories, and the
 process of creating categories, though not difficult, is not easily
 available to newbies.

 It's already fairly simple to add a category to a page (the category
 description page doesn't need to exist for a category to have members),
 but we need to make it simpler and more fun, as I said.

 Tagging allows the user complete freedom in associating concepts with
 images. Ideas around tagging on Commons have been rejected as putting an
 extra burden on anti-vandal fighters, in addition to being possibly
 useless in the goal of making search on Commons suck less

 Useless? Tagging is a major part of search. I have no idea what you're
 talking about here. My understanding is that GerardM believes that we'll
 put tags into Wikidata instead of on Commons. I don't think any reasonable
 person seriously questions the utility or virtue of tagging. I think many
 reasonable look at the current classification system on Commons and
 genuinely do find it completely useless and incredibly frustrating.

 MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons copyright extremism

[Austin Hair]

Shut up, Russavia.

I wouldn't normally be so curt with someone I just put on moderation,
but apparently you think that's an appropriate tone to use on this
list.

Austin


On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Oh cry me a river Nathan.

 What is inappropriate is that we have Steven ranting and raving about
 a project on which me and others bust our humps on developing.

 If people can't understand
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:SCOPE,
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:L and
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:DW then I am actually wondering
 how in hell they were an admin on that project anyway.

 If he wants to change these core policies whinging about them on
 wikimedia-l isn't gonna do anything. Start an RfC on Commons and
 change it.

 Thanks

 Russavia

 On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Steven,

 Quite seriously, if you can't understand the concept of copyright and
 derivative works, then perhaps this is not the project for you.

 There's nothing more to say.

 Russavia


 That comment is unhelpful and inappropriate.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons copyright extremism

[Austin Hair]

Okay, guys, let's all take a step back and remember [[WP:Civility]].
(Yeah, I know that's a Wikipedia pillar, but can't we all at least get
on board with that one?)

The tone of this thread was accusatory from the start, and quickly
went to vicious. Maybe everyone can try it again with a bit of AGF.

Austin


On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 7:30 PM, James Alexander jameso...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:

 P.S. Stephen, you are young and handsome, in fact rather dishy to my
 ageing eyes. Good for you. Keep in mind that your fellow volunteers
 might not have been born so lucky, and that being young and pretty all
 too soon passes into memory, sigh.


 Fæ, this is not acceptable for the list (or for that matter on wiki).
 Stephen's neckbeard comment certainly wasn't helpful either but it's no
 excuse.

 James
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising banners (again)

[Austin Hair]

Mr. Admin,

I fully support both transparency and free speech, and would never
suggest that you should be denied the right to ask the questions
you're asking. I can, however, object to your use of the mailing list
I administer (as a volunteer, in anticipation of your likely response)
to ask those questions in such an aggressive and disruptive way.

I have placed you on moderation for as long as you continue this type
of behavior. If you'd like an unmoderated soapbox, I know for a fact
that Google can point you to several sites which would be more than
happy to provide one.

Austin

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Site Admin 1924@gmail.com wrote:
 Dear Ms. Ayers

 Thanks for informing you are also a WMF trustee like Sam and you
 concede that.these controversial banners are in your face.

 Sam's last email had this remark concerning the poster below:-

PS: The poster below is part of a deranged sockfarm, now blocked from en:wp, 
which has started spamming WM mailing lists (see the India list) and is 
squatting the site http://www.wikimedia.xyz/ . Please do not feed, and 
moderate as needed.

 Some direct questions to you as a WMF Trustee:

 a} if this is Trustee Sam's personal knowledge that the poster below
 is part of a deranged sockfarm, or is it part of some official /
 transparent record of WMF which we can object to formally ?

 b) How Trustee Sam knows that the poster is squatting the site
 http://www.wikimedia.xyz/; ? Is this also part of some official WMF
 record ?

 c) Do you deny the following official record of WMF concerning highly
 offensive remarks, including sexually charged remarks, psychiatric
 remarks, ways to fudge the accounts etc. ?

 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2011-05-26

 extracts:

 [10:10am] Thehelpfulone: indeed, mindspillage what do you do?
 [10:10am] sgardner: (Pinning her up against the wall, as Ironholds likes :-)
 [10:10am] mindspillage: ...
 [10:10am] Ironholds: ...
 [10:10am] sgardner: LOL :-)
 [10:10am] Ironholds: NOT what I meant
 [10:10am] StevenW: She spills her mind, obviously. ;)
 [10:11am] Ironholds: sgardner: you know the WMF covering psychiatric
 insurance?
 [10:11am] Ironholds: does it just cover YOURS, or are you going to
 pay for the trauma I've just suffered? :p
 [10:11am] sgardner: Most definitely :-)
 ..
 [10:13am] mindspillage: And what can we do to help guide the
 communities into making good choices and ensuring that success?
 [10:13am] tommorris: a few well-placed indef blocks...
 [10:13am] StevenW: Is movement roles sort of like that mindspillage?
 The strategic planning I mean.
 [10:13am] mindspillage: sgardner: I think the board could use
 psychiatric benefits... :-P
 ..
 [10:15am] sgardner: So for example, one of the issues the board
 grapples with is (and is currently grappling with) is how much
 emphasis the Wikimedia Foundation should put on growing its
 operational reserve fund.
 [10:15am] StevenW: Can you translate operational reserve fund to
 human speak Sue? ;)
 10:16am] Courcelles: Thinks that would be rainy day fund
 [10:16am] Nihiltres: StevenW: the phrase rainy day comes to mind
 [10:16am] StevenW: Yes.
 [10:16am] Nihiltres: ah, damnit, Courcelles :P
 ..
 [10:18am] GerardM-: the question is also what the effect of money
 spend now will be for advancing our goals
 10:18am] Prodego: Nihiltres: sure, but the budget has gone up far
 faster than the site has grown
 ..
 [10:22am] tommorris: Prodego: I'm leaning towards a few million for
 a group of elite mercenaries to go around punishing vandals.
 ..
 [10:25am] Fluffernutter: tommorris: and so I was going to say that
 Ironholds is -- oops :P
 ..
 [10:29am] quanticle: Hardware is cheap; people are expensive, etc.
 ..
 [10:30am] sgardner: Just depends which way you want to slice the numbers.
 [10:30am] SarekOfVulcan: Ah, like it better sliced that way, Sue. :-)
 [10:30am] sgardner: :-)

 On 12/4/14, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Ryan Lane rlan...@gmail.com wrote:
 phoebe ayers phoebe.wiki@... writes:


 With Sam, I'd like to add my thanks to Lila, and to the fundraising
 team which has done an extraordinary job of testing, optimizing, and
 running our fundraising campaigns. And thanks to all of you, for being
 concerned about and invested in our projects' public image and
 financial health and future.

 I am not just saying this because I am a trustee -- I've seen every
 fundraising campaign that the WMF has ever run, and participated in
 discussions about most of them, and I genuinely do like this year's.
 Yes, the banners are in your face, and I'm OK with that, given that
 it's a quick campaign and as always one click makes them go away
 (forever, I think). Obviously, opinions on the banner aesthetics can
 and will vary. But discussions on how much money we should raise
 (which, of course, is not an either/or choice) -- that's a different
 conversation.

 -- Phoebe

 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Google Groups: You've been added to Gender Gap

[Austin Hair]

For the record, about an hour ago I permanently banned Site Admin,
going so far as to create regex filters for his content. And no,
Russavia, I didn't think it was you.

Unfortunately, I can't do anything about the individual
subscriptions—yes, I got one too.

Austin

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all

 Below is an email I've just received inviting me to join the Gender Gap
 mailing list. It's sent from russiaviat...@gmail.com and has been passing
 off as me.

 I mentioned on the Gender Gap mailing list the other day that this was not
 me, but now it would appear that email addresses on this mailing list are
 being scraped.

 If you receive an email purporting to be from myself and it's not from this
 email addy (and with an IINET IP), you can be assured it is not myself. If
 I wanted to troll you all, you all know that I have more elaborate ways of
 doing this if I really wanted to do that. :)

 It could appear from the message they sent it is our Indian friend who is
 doing this; but of course it could be someone joe jobbing them too. Who
 knows, who cares, it's not me all the same.

 Cheers

 Russavia

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Russavia (Google Groups) gender-gap+nore...@googlegroups.com
 Date: Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 1:08 AM
 Subject: Google Groups: You've been added to Gender Gap
 To: russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com


 Gender-Gap International spreading Transparency and WikiLove
 --
 I regret that XYZ has thought it necessary to bring his/her personal
 grievance to the Wikimedia-l mailing list now that s/he is unable to make
 such comments on the Wikimedia-XYZ list or the WM-XYZ website. I would hope
 that the moderators will consider whether providing a platform for this
 type of attack is conducive to the health of the Wikimedia movement.
 ___
 Michael Maggs
 Chair, Wikimedia UK

 About this group:

 Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the participation
 of women within Wikimedia projects. We want to encourage you to engage with
 others in this effort.
 The owner of the group has set your subscription type as Email,
 meaning that you'll receive a copy of every message posted to the group as
 they are posted.  Visit This Group
 http://groups.google.com/d/forum/gender-gap?hl=en
  [image: Visit Google Groups] https://groups.google.com/?hl=en

 Start your own group http://groups.google.com/d/creategroup?hl=en,
 unsubscribe
 from this group
 http://groups.google.com/d/forum/gender-gap/unsubscribe/1KzA4xQp3EJgqb7qgoVQ1Ojd6d1ig1serHmoKtUOx11h3NXzJA?hl=en,
 or stop invitations like this
 http://groups.google.com/d/optout?hl=en. or report
 spam
 http://groups.google.com/d/abuse/YQAAAEwZXucMMHY_I2wAAADPrIBRAUs70uGdiRxE_60cAW3p5LQ?hl=en.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Issue on Dutch Wikipedia in relation to BLP violating images

[Austin Hair]

C'mon, Kim, you know better. Keep it on IRC.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediauk-l] Using list moderation as censorship

[Austin Hair]

Fae,

Please do not drag this list into whatever trouble you've found
yourself in on another. Wikimedia-l is neither a court of appeals for
Wikimedia-related lists nor a bullhorn for your personal grievances.

Austin


On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Darcy,

 I am concerned at what appears to be deliberate suppression of
 questions raising governance related issues from the wikimedia UK
 email list. The email below is an example. The list was always
 intended to be independent of the UK chapter, though one of the
 moderators is one of your employees.

 Could you please confirm that neither you, nor your employees, are
 manipulating this public list to your political advantage.

 Thanks,
 Fae

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Fæ fae...@gmail.com
 Date: 18 November 2014 at 19:24
 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Welcome ro D'Arcy Myers
 To: UK Wikimedia mailing list wikimediau...@lists.wikimedia.org
 Cc: geni...@gmail.com, Harry Mitchell hjmitch...@ymail.com


 It would be nice to hear from the board how this was discussed before
 offering the interim position. After all, in the several interviews I
 took part in for WMUK staff, pretty much the first basic question was
 along the lines of 'have you ever edited Wikipedia?' as a way of
 assessing what the candidate knows about Wikimedia; so I can not
 believe this would come as a surprise considering how sensitive the
 board is on COI and its perception by our community.

 Fae



 On 18 November 2014 19:13, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:



 On 18 November 2014 18:55, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:



 [[user:Dcfmyers]] has no other edits.



 whoops missed a couple of deleted ones 2 edits to [[George More O'Ferrall]]. 
 A direct copy and paste of

 http://www.screenonline.org.uk/people/id/527160/

 In fairness copyright is a pretty blameless error for new editors


 --
 geni

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 --
 fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae


 --
 fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
 Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

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[Wikimedia-l] Post limits

[Austin Hair]

Toward the end of the month, I normally start watching the post count,
since I know that thirty-post limit has a way of sneaking up on some
people. Some months, this gets out of hand quickly, but I was
surprised when the current count was brought to my attention just
halfway through the month.

Pine has tipped the scales pretty heavily, and not for the first time.
I've placed him on moderation for the rest of the month, with the
usual conditions. A few others are getting close; it's probably worth
taking a look at
http://www.infodisiac.com/Wikipedia/ScanMail/Wikimedia-l.html to see
if you're one of them.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cryonics

[Austin Hair]

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:41 AM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote:
 I recommend that the Foundation explore gender-inclusive cryonics
 solutions. I understand that supercooling vitrification freezers such as
 those manufactured by ABI, Ltd. of Chiba, Japan called CASfresh or Cells
 Alive System may be of some interest.

What is th... I don't... yeah.

James, I hope you'll understand why I've decided to screen your posts
for a while.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Specifying office action in edit summary?

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:48 AM, svetlana svetl...@fastmail.com.au wrote:
 And then they draw comics stating that that's WMF's fault?
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_building_wiki_wall_in_August_2014_caricature.jpg

 What a wonderful community (clique of active editors and sysops) we have.

Svetlana,

With a whole week left in August, you've managed to hit 30 posts
(actually more, if you count those made with your previous address) in
the span of a month. The reason is fairly obvious, given the number
that, like this one, are purely rhetorical.

I've temporarily flagged your address for moderation, and will let
more carefully considered posts through as they come.

Everyone else should refer to my recent e-mail reminding everyone of
the post limit and why it exists, and perhaps check
http://www.infodisiac.com/Wikipedia/ScanMail/Wikimedia-l.html to see
your current tally.

Best,

Austin

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[Wikimedia-l] Brevity

[Austin Hair]

With 11 days remaining in August, I'd like to remind everyone that
Wikimedia-l's guidelines[0] ask that subscribers keep their post count
below at most 30 per month. This guideline exists to help curb the
temptation to weigh in on absolutely every point raised, turning what
could otherwise be a carefully considered debate into a rapid-fire
argument. (If that's what you're looking for, fear not—I'm sure IRC[1]
has you covered.)

I know that this month has seen a few contentious topics, but if you
see yourself nearing 30 posts (Erik Zachte's ScanMail tool[2] is very
helpful, here), perhaps it's worth sparing a moment for pause before
clicking reply. In fact, that's probably worth doing even if you
aren't topping the charts. Less is sometimes more.

Thanks for your attention,

Austin

[0] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Channels
[2] http://www.infodisiac.com/Wikipedia/ScanMail/Wikimedia-l.html

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Odder on moderation?!

[Austin Hair]

Yes, I temporarily placed Tomasz on moderation after his personal
attacks on the list. I apologize for apparently not making this clear
enough with my on-list warning.

I spent most of yesterday afternoon traveling home from Wikimania, and
have not seen any messages from him since. As the admin queue is
empty, I can only conclude that they were dealt with by another person
with access to the administrator interface.

Austin


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:23 AM, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 Has Odder / Tomasz Kozłowski been put on moderation?

 I'm informed his emails sent to this list havent come through to the
 list for nearly 24 hrs, and he has not been notified of having been
 put on any moderation, and the moderators havent responded to queries
 sent directly, and havent actioned these moderated emails (deny or
 approve, doesnt matter) for almost a day.

 --
 John Vandenberg

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Odder on moderation?!

[Austin Hair]

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
 Current working practices on lists include never being informed that
 it happened and never getting a reply to a polite request of why the
 moderation is in place, along with there being no possibility of
 appeal or timely review. More complex issues, such as moderators
 taking action on participants with whom they are actively involved in
 disputes, are not covered by any current guideline.

I do have to dispute this. While I did not explicitly say I have set
your moderation bit, and in retrospect should have, I believe that
there's a fairly obvious conclusion to be drawn when a list
administrator tells you that your behavior is unacceptable and your
next message is not immediately posted.

What I take the most issue with is that, contrary to what John has
said, I did not receive a single request—polite or otherwise—from
Tomasz directly, or (so far as gmail's search function can determine)
any inquiry at all regarding moderation prior to John's e-mail to the
list.

The matter was clarified within minutes of it being brought to my
attention. I don't know what, if not that, constitutes timely review
for you, Fae.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:29 PM, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
 As this has wide-ranging implications, I have started an RFC on meta

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Superprotect_rights

With that done, I'd like to ask that discussion on this topic be
continued there. Not that this isn't an appropriate forum for the
issue to be raised, because it obviously is, but a public,
transparent, and permanently documented RfC seems like a better place
for it than the inboxes of this select few.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Tomasz W. Kozłowski
twkozlow...@gmail.com wrote:
 Someone is definitely forgetting that Wikimedia wikis are not the
 Foundation's personal playground.

 You should be ashamed of yourself, Erik, and you should resign or be fired.

 And all volunteers should make sure to remember who was involved in
 deploying those shameful patches to Wikimedia wikis without consulting
 anything with the people who actually matter -- the community.

Tomasz,

While I appreciate your indignation, this is absolutely not the tone
appropriate for the list, nor is it one likely to effect your desired
outcome. Please be civil, and consider commenting on the RfC rather
than making personal attacks and veiled threats on this mailing list.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open Letter to Lila Regarding Access to Non-Public Information Policy

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Trillium Corsage
trillium2...@yandex.com wrote:
 (I dunno, Chinese military intelligence, with whom arbitrator Timotheus 
 Canens is said by some to be associated?)

Seriously?

I think you've gone on long enough for now. You can come off
moderation when you contribute something to the discussion rather than
attacking others and, dare I say it, just plain ranting.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation (was Wikiconference USA in the media)

[Austin Hair]

On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote:
 Please note that moderation is not a punishment: it is imposed as a measure
 to avoid future posts within a certain pattern of expectation when there
 are reasonable grounds to do so.

Absolutely correct. Moderated posts stand a good chance of continuing
on to the list, so long as they aren't furthering whatever caused
their sender's posts to be held.

 I think many people will agree that Russavia has been uncivil on quite a
 few occasios - I would even go as far as that I'm not surprised any more if
 (s)he is uncivil on this list. Therefore, I think there is a reasonable
 expectation that the pattern will continue - and I find it acceptable to
 moderate a person in such a situation to ensure future posts will be
 posterboys of civilty (well, or at least somewhat moderate).

 I'm confident that the list moderators will moderate timely, will let
 through decent posts that approach civilty and that they will remove the
 moderation once the expectation of uncivil posts has been reversed (for
 example, when Russavia stopped making them).

I think the note Richard sent about the action unintentionally drew
too much attention to one particular word, when the reality is that it
was the result of a pattern of behavior that we finally deemed to be
too much. And while he remains on moderation, the one message I've
seen Russavia send since was allowed to be posted, because—as Lodewijk
points out—moderation is not a punitive ban.

 I do second the insinuated requests by Tomasz and Fae that other people
 should be held to the same standards in the future, and they be moderated
 too when a pattern of uncivil behavior develops.

It's true that there have been periods where this list hasn't been
watched as closely as at other times, and I understand that this can
seem downright unfair. I will say that at least the default is to err
on the side of leniency, but we'll do our best to continue with
even-handed oversight.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

[Austin Hair]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 8:14 AM, edward edw...@logicmuseum.com wrote:
On 17/06/2014 00:23, Steven Walling wrote:
 The Wikimedia Foundation does not write nor edit content on Wikipedia, nor
 does it dictate editorial policy.

 I am aware of that, but (a) does that have to be the case anyway? If the
 model clearly isn’t working, why not consider another model?

Even if this were clear to anyone but you, Wikimedia-l is not the
place to discuss your issues with the English Wikipedia.

 See geni’s remark below. I can’t edit

I believe you'll find this a common problem with your approach.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The tragedy of Commons

[Austin Hair]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 5:26 PM, George William Herbert
george.herb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Conflating and comingling our educational role with open content advocacy was 
 always risky and is proving impossible.  Without devaluing open content, we 
 need to separately support fair use for educational purposes, and stop 
 letting cross-project advocacy games screw with our educational mission.

This is the most intelligent thing I've seen said on this list in a while.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] On relationship gossip and appropriate conversation

[Austin Hair]

On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think we all share a concern about the amount of drama in our
 community-wide discussions. Expressing outrage (even though it's sometimes
 appropriate and necessary) can often be the fuel of drama -- and I think
 it's important to explore what's been going on in relation to that
 principle.

I can't say I agree. Can you sum up what you're trying to accomplish
in one sentence, or refrain from dragging this list through yet
another round of this topic?

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] So now the Wikipedia comes in handy to 'vouch' for 419 scams

[Austin Hair]

  I, Liliane Bettencourt Authenticate this email of 3.5M USD grant to 
 you, please view my 
 link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liliane_Bettencourt{{fv}} and Email me on 
 bettencourtlilian...@rogers.com for more info

FTFY

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A personal note.

[Austin Hair]

́Fae,

You just did. Arguably, you did even worse by throwing the allegation
out there without substantiation. Nobody's asking you to be friends
with Greg Kohs—it's no secret that I'm not—but you're dredging up
off-list history for no productive reason I can discern.

Since I'm responsible for seeing to it that he's not able to defend
himself here, I feel compelled to ask that you at least keep the
mudslinging off this list.

Austin

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 12:38 AM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
 Wil, ask Kohs to repeat his filth. I'm not going to do it for him.

 Fae

 On 28 May 2014 23:37, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
 I didn't know that he called you a faggot. Could you please show me where?

 I mentioned I didn't agree with him on everything. I certainly would
 *never* agree that a slur like that is justified, if he did make it.
 In any case, the quote stands. Maybe we should start a separate thread
 on the quote itself?

 ,Wil

 On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
 Wil, you are supporting a man that thought it was a hilarious joke to
 call me a faggot. Not something that I am prepared to overlook, ever.

 I now have serious reservations about Lila's good judgement in failing
 to ensure you were appropriately advised, considering her critical
 role in the Wikimedia movement.

 Fae

 On 28 May 2014 23:18, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
 First off, I said that about Greg, and I firmly believe it. He's
 uncovered many controversies at Wikipedia. In fact, his article was
 the first to be critical of Lila's appointment, and- save the rather
 petty comment about airline fees at the end- was pretty on-point. That
 doesn't mean that I agree with everything Greg says, just that I
 personally am glad someone is saying it. He added *Wil Sinclair*,
 Partner of Lila Tretikov (Wikimedia Foundation executive director);
 I'd prefer he just leave it at Wil Sinclair, but it's really his
 call on what he puts on his own site.

 Now, I don't know what Lila thinks of this- and I don't want to know-
 but I would really like to understand if there is a chance for any
 leader to change the concerning aspects of the WP community at this
 point. I know that if there is, it's likely to be a very strong,
 charismatic leader like Lila. But if there isn't, then so be it and
 it's better to know now. And I'm pretty sure that if the community
 here wants positive change, it has to be ready to talk about the hard
 problems- no matter who brings them up. Whatever happens, Lila is
 going to land on her feet; no one need worry about her. But, again,
 that's all just my opinion.

 I know you didn't ask me for a response, but this mail is all about me
 so I felt justified chiming in. Thanks for (intentionally) taking it
 to the list this time. :)

 ,Wil

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 fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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 Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A personal note.

[Austin Hair]

Wil,

Just for the record, hands-off is the best way to describe our
approach to wikimedia-l moderation. We (the administrators) sometimes
step in when a thread or a poster gets way out of control, but for
this list, that bar's set pretty high.

The soft post limit that's been pointed out to you exists as a
guideline to keep individuals from dominating a conversation, which...
yeah, you kind of are, at this point. Nobody wants to take away your
ability to defend yourself, but you might want to try limiting the
number of things you have to defend all at once.

Sorry your experience turned sour. If it's any consolation, we've had way worse.

Austin


On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 3:05 AM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
 As I mentioned to Sam, I have just one more thing to say here before I
 let you guys deliberate on whether to block me.

 I've been getting tons of private emails from people who say that they
 don't want to see me blocked, but that they are afraid to say that on
 the list, because they feel like they might be intimidated or
 ostracized.

 That's right: *afraid*

 I think we should all let that sink in for a moment. . .



 . . . Now, is that OK? Is that how we want our community to function?
 I'm talking to each and every one of you out there, not the few dozen
 that seem to be only people posting here (and I seem to have a strong
 lead  at the moment ;) ). If you are tired of being afraid or worn out
 by the rough and tumble discourse here, then keep your chin up. There
 are a lot more of you out there than you might think; I'm hearing from
 many of them now. Wikipedia can change- but only with your help.

 ,Wil




 On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello all,

 Lila: Thank you kindly for these recent notes.  It is wonderful to
 hear your thoughts on your first weeks.

 Wil: Working through public, logged forums is a fine principle; one
 that I try to follow myself.  It helps avoid misunderstandings.


 Pete Forsyth writes:
 I'd like to suggest that Wil's access to this email list be blocked, at
 least as a temporary measure... I suspect that consensus among
 active Wikimedians would be pretty strong at this point.

 Pete: That is a wholly uncalled for suggestion; reckless, if you
 would. Please be kind. As you can see from the comments of others,
 there is no such consensus, mainly just requests to slow down.


 Erik Moeller writes:
 As a reminder, this list has an official soft limit of 30 posts per 
 [month]

 Wil Sinclair writes:
 just for guidance here- should I not publicly respond to those
 who have publicly address me or talked about my actions or words

 I find it helpful to quote and briefly respond to many posts of
 interest in a thread, in a single reply (as I did here). And I try to
 make 5 edits to a project for every post, to keep a balanced
 perspective...

 Sam

 (PS: Victor, the A. Dewey Wikireader Project always makes me smile.
 Thank you for mentioning it here.  :-)

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] ED transition responsibility

[Austin Hair]

Guys... c'mon...

Austin

On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Carlos M. Colina
ma...@wikimedia.org.ve wrote:
 Sometimes I have the perception that it is not just not aligned but diverting 
 more and more as time passes by..

 M


 Sent from Samsung Mobile

  Original message 
 From: James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com
 Date: 25/03/2014  02:23  (GMT+02:00)
 To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,Gayle Karen 
 Young gyo...@wikimedia.org
 Subject: [Wikimedia-l] ED transition responsibility

 Hi Gayle,

 During the ED transition, who is responsible for insuring that
 Foundation advocacy is aligned with the interests of Foundation
 volunteers?

 Thank you!

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [feature suggestion] Be able to include/exclude certain page fragments based on the geographic area

[Austin Hair]

I think that if you stop to think about it another way, you'll find
that this would do the opposite of what you intend, to wit: allowing
various courts to impose editorial control.

Imagine Circletine, once a popular childhood beverage but now the
issue of some controversy regarding its tendency to cause tooth loss.
Although banned from sale in Europe and the United States, an
aggressive marketing campaign has made it the best-selling soft drink
in the nation of Elbonia. Equally aggressive lobbying in the Elbonian
parliament has resulted it in being a crime to disparage Circletine in
any way, or even to mention the controversy in print.

And so we have our article:

'''Circletine''' is a bannedin
country=elboniacontroversial/bannedin milk flavoring product made
from malt extract, curds, and whey, bannedin
country=elboniaonce/bannedin extremely popular worldwide

bannedin country=elboniaAlthough it enjoyed several decades of
success as an inexpensive beverage marketed mostly for children,
concerns over an increased risk of tooth loss led to its withdrawal
from sale in most western countries./bannedin

(I think you can see where this is going.)

Censorship is awful, but partial censorship is worse than simply
saying I'm not allowed to talk about it. Ask your government why.

Austin


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Yuri y...@rawbw.com wrote:
 I submitted the proposal to be able to eliminate certain parts of the
 articles in certain countries, where the local governments find those parts
 illegal: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62231
 But it got rejected, and I am not sure I am clear why.

 The problem is that there are countries that lack the freedom of speech
 (most of the countries), and some of them get very aggressive about banning
 materials that most reasonable people wouldn't find objectionable. The very
 recent example, provided in the bug report above, is banning of any
 references of Adolf Hitler's book Mein Kampf in Russia. While this case
 may seem not as important, but I don't see why users outside Russia should
 be affected by such decision, when they may not even support any decisions
 or values of the said government. Yet, everybody's version of wikipedia page
 is affected, and materials are hidden.

 My suggestion, if implemented, would allow to hide certain parts of the
 articles in the country (or area) of jurisdiction of the corresponding
 court, while allowing users not living there to still see the original
 version.

 If such governments get their way in banning materials globally, this will
 effectively make wikipedia biased, and reflecting various POVs of various
 courts, which has never been intended by wikipedia.

 Yuri

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