Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On creating an Indian Wikisource

[Vickram Crishna]

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Arjuna Rao Chavala wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Shiju Alex wrote:
>
>> By hosting a WikiSource outside of the US and in the jurisdiction of
>>> the country.
>>>
>>
>> This is not limited to Wikisource. Wikimedia Commons is definitely in the
>> list, and may be some other projects also.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, this  leads to fragmentation in the sense there is no one
> source for the sum of human knowledge.
>
>
>
Well, that was the point of the TRIPS agreement, was it not? Were
information, knowledge, truly 'free', we might be seeing some very
interesting alterations in the balance of the way things get done. The
purpose of TRIPS was to maintain the status quo.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] (no subject)

[Vickram Crishna]

There must be an aphorism relating to people who won't help others, remain
unable to help themselves.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar
wrote:

> Hmmm
>
> See the lines at the end of the mail you receive from the list.
> Check those urls and help yourself.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 5:39 PM, hah brother  wrote:
>
>> Dear sir,
>> Plz Unsubscribe
>>
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>
> --
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> ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Arthapedia - Indian Gov Site on the lines of Wikipedia

[Vickram Crishna]

The  bureaucracy is taking a long long time to understand that it serves the
Constitution, and the Constitution serves the people. Sadly, we are blessed
with an administration that thinks it was created to rule. Even when it
reaches out (and we do applaud every effort to reach out), it does so from
the paternalistic heights of power.

The best response to such an announcement is to redouble efforts to push the
initiative discussed a long while back, on this list if I am not mistaken,
to put up wikipages that explain each and every government procedure and
rule.

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Gautam John wrote:

> Not really a Wikipedia model, what?
>
> Crying shame about the license.
>
> Wondering if the Chapter and the Office can do anything?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Best,
>
> Gautam
> (handheld)
> On Sep 2, 2011 10:00 PM, "Sohel Bohra"  wrote:
> >
> http://www.livemint.com/articles/2011/08/29214955/Govt-starts-website-to-explain.html?atype=tp
> >
> > *Govt starts website to explain economic terms and concepts*
> > Remya Nair
> >
> > The government has started Arthapedia, a website designed on the lines of
> > Wikipedia, that will act as a source of reference for economic terms and
> > concepts used in the public policy domain in India.
> >
> > The website, an attempt by the government to bridge the gap between
> > policymakers and the general public, was inaugurated on Monday by
> Planning
> > Commission deputy chairperson Montek Singh Ahluwalia as a part of the
> golden
> > jubilee celebrations of the Indian Economic Service. It will cater to the
> > requirements of academicians, economists, policy practitioners,
> journalists,
> > students and other interested parties, both within India and abroad.
> >
> > “The objective of this portal is to increase transparency in government
> by
> > simplifying indigenous concepts or by introducing domestic institutions
> to
> > support the professional development of public policy economists,” the
> > website says. “It is meant to enrich and enhance citizen-friendly policy
> > formulation through dialogue and collaborative action.”
> >
> > A finance ministry official involved in the designing of the website said
> > government officials may frequently use some terminologies unique to
> India
> > such as *panchayati raj* and flagship programmes, such as the Mahatma
> Gandhi
> > National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme, but their exact scope and
> > meaning may not be well known to others. “The idea is to explain the
> meaning
> > and relevance of the terms in the Indian context. Also, some terms may
> have
> > different meanings in different countries. It is important that the
> Indian
> > context is explained,” she said.
> > Besides explaining terms and concepts, the website will also offer
> detailed
> > profiles of some of the key Indian policymakers. To begin with, the
> website
> > has uploaded five profiles—Prime Minister Manmohan Singh; finance
> minister
> > Pranab Mukherjee; C. Rangarajan, chairman of the Economic Advisory
> Council
> > to the Prime Minister of India; Ahluwalia; and Reserve Bank of India
> > governor D. Subbarao.
> >
> > Users willing to upgrade the text and context of a particular word can
> open
> > the text on a virtual mode and edit the same with authentic references.
> The
> > edited content is posted after being moderated by the editorial board. In
> > the initial phase, however, only serving IES officers will be allowed to
> > write the content of this website and non-IES persons can only post
> comments
> > and queries for now.
> >
> > To be sure, the website has a disclaimer that says the government of
> India
> > does not monitor the entries and the views expressed therein are not
> > necessarily those of the government. “The entries, therefore, must not be
> > treated as official statements of policy or definitions”.
> > It will, however, take some time for the website to become a one-stop
> > destination for all terms, concepts and profiles of eminent
> personalities.
> >
> > “Going ahead, the challenge will be to sustain the portal with constant
> > upgradation,” Kaushik Basu, chief economic adviser in the finance
> ministry,
> > said.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sohel Bohra
> > Co-founder - WikifyIndia 
>
> > +91-95038 48386
> > so...@wikifyindia.com
> > Twitter  |
> > Facebook<
> http://www.facebook.com/mobileprotection#%21/pages/WikifyIndia/206108042761681
> >
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Arthapedia - Indian Gov Site on the lines of Wikipedia

[Vickram Crishna]

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 22:20, Gautam John  wrote:
>
>> Not really a Wikipedia model, what?
>>
>> Crying shame about the license.
>>
> Only valid concern is about license, but then if its about bridging the gap
> between policymakers and general public, I feel it will be yet another
> "tam-tam" site from govt and will have no encyclopedia content. We could
> still use the content as RS since it comes from govt.
>
>
>> Wondering if the Chapter and the Office can do anything?
>>
>
Perhaps the Chapter can offer to conduct training programs for government
servants in all states (cascading model) to upload and maintain information
on government procedures and processes. It could be a steady source of
income for the Trust.

What is also needed is information on what we might call 'ground reality'
processes. For instance, when the information asked for in the form etc does
not match the information actually needed by the officer concerned, or at
least claimed to be needed. For obvious reasons, such processes cannot be
authenticated with references to official documents, yet it is precisely
these that are needed by ordinary applicants, who are otherwise driven to
the arms of pimps (ie, consultants). The arthapedia site will also
necessarily fail in this respect, so either wikifyindia or Wikipedia itself
must provide a meaningful solution.


> FYI: Arthapedia is available at arthapedia.in
>
>
> I dont think there is a room for involvement since the goals are not even
> intersecting except that they use Mediawiki. Looking at the site, an academy
> about how to put Wiki texts(syntax), making successful Interlinked content
> can be given a shot, but then it will help only their project and public
> over all and may be a fraction of them editing Wikipedia. Currently they are
> just copy pasting documents without interlinking. Some Mediawiki
> help(tips/advice) too can be given.
>
> --
> Regards
> Srikanth.L
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Santhosh Thottingal joins the Foundation Engineering Team and Gerard Meijssen as technology outreach consultant.

[Vickram Crishna]

A different kind ;-) of l18n problem!

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 8:26 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

> No, no.. not again.. He is Gerard Meijssen :)
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Akshay Agarwal  > wrote:
>
>> Congrats Santhosh & Gerald, we can now predict many of the i18n bugs
>> affecting Indian Wikis getting resolved quickly!
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Subhashish Panigrahi <
>> psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oops, Sorry, heartiest congratulations Santhosh and Gerald, sorry for the
>>> typo. Thanks Tinu for correcting me
>>>
>>> Subha
>>>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On creating an Indian Wikisource

[Vickram Crishna]

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Gautam John  wrote:

> Hi Yann:
>
> Thanks much for this.
>
> It's nice to know that ISPs are the same the world over and do more
> than they are asked to do. *sigh*
>

More to the point, the kind of action initiated by Gallimard, exceeding the
limits of the law and banking on other's ignorance of the law (ie FUD) is
seen very often in India, although not so much by corporate action (but that
is not unknown either).

In India, we are far more likely to see this sort of thing from government
offices, also preying on people's ignorance of the law (including ISPs etc).
The situation is made far more complicated by loose terms employed in the
laws and rules pertaining to those laws, especially regarding
intermediaries.

If put to a vote, I would want Wikipedia (and Wikipedians, of course) to
stand fast against all these kinds of pressures in India, by employing the
kind of firm responses Yann describes. The price of freedom cannot be
freedom itself.

>
>
>
> On 8 September 2011 12:54, Yann Forget  wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > For your information, Wikilivres hosting service provider received a
> > letter from Gallimard, a leading French publisher.
> > See http://www.wikilivres.info/wiki/File:Injonction_de_Gallimard.pdf
> > This letter says that major French ISPs have been asked to restrained
> > access to a list of pages.
> > Then the hosting service provider sent me a mail saying that "terms of
> > services have been violated",
> > and that there are "monitoring" the site.
> > In addition, the letter sent to French ISPs is one year old, and the
> > restriction has never been applied
> > by any provider, according to the tests I have made.
> > However these restrictions should have been done "within one month",
> > according to this letter.
> > Actually there is nothing in French law which demands ISP to restrict
> > access to content
> > which are not in the public domain in France.
> >
> > AFAIK no terms of service was violated, and I've asked the ISP for
> > clarification.
> > Gallimard issued a similar threath to Wikisource last year, after
> > which some texts were deleted by OFFICE action, and later restored
> > after I sent a counter-notice. There was no news from Gallimard after
> > that.
> >
> > This is to mention that copyright has to be taken seriously in this
> project.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Yann
> >
> > 2011/8/26 John Vandenberg :
> >> Wikisource already has a "Commonwealth copyright wikisource"
> >>
> >> it is called Wikilivres, and it is hosted in Canada.
> >>
> >> http://www.wikilivres.info/
> >>
> >> On that website you will find many examples of works which are illegal
> >> to distribute on US servers.
> >>
> >> Whenever English Wikisource finds a work which is illegal in the US,
> >> but legal in Canada, it is moved to Wikilivres.
> >>
> >> Wikilivres is currently paid for by a Wikisource administrator
> [[user:Yann]].
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Vandenberg
> >
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[Wikimediaindia-l] eBooks, Project Gutenberg, founder obituary

[Vickram Crishna]

http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Michael_S._Hart

A fine tribute to a great achiever and source of inspiration for the
progress of open knowledge.


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic (Unicode) language statistics on web September 2011

[Vickram Crishna]

On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Subhashish Panigrahi <
psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks a lot Kaśyap for this great input.
>

It's very enlightening. Is there some way (perhaps a wikiproject) this
information can be tracked on an ongoing basis, so we can see at a glance
how user preferences change over time (grow/modify)? I think that would be a
pretty fantastic measure of the amount of growth of information and its
usefulness over time.


> Cheers
> Subha
>
> 2011/9/18 Kaśyap కశ్యప్ 
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I wanna share  some statics   on Indic language on web in Unicode , I
>> conducted a simple search on 18th September 2011 at 9:00 pmwith
>> language name in Unicode  with three leading search engines Google, Yahoo,
>> Bing . I did't include Sanskrit bacasue is based on the Devanagari script .
>> This latest estimates can help to find the Internet Users by Language
>> (unicode) due to the lack of other sources in data mining  and
>> technical issues please consider this analysis is just of information
>> purpose only .
>> *
>> *
>> * Google   YahooBing
>> *
>> অসমীয়া (Assamese)  739,00091,500
>> 196,000
>> বাংলা (Bengali)  20,400,000 49,600,000
>>   18,600,000
>> English 8,510,000,000   2,180,000,000
>>  4,190,000,000
>> فارسی (Farsi)222,000,000  193,000,000
>>   5,7,000,000
>> ગુજરાતી (Gujarti)  12,000,000   4,680,000
>>  4,190,000
>>  हिन्दी (Hindi)  251,000,000 70,500,000
>>  1,7400,000
>>  ಕನ್ನಡ (Kannada)  12,700,000 19,500,000
>>6,130,000
>> کًشُر (Kashmiri) 44,300   424,000
>>  7,160
>> മലയാളം (Malayalam) 23,800,000 36,400,00013,800,000
>> मराठी (Marathi) 17,500,000 10,800,000
>>10,600,000
>> ଓଡ଼ିଆ (Oriya)1,550,000   123,000
>>   141,000
>> ਪੰਜਾਬੀ (Punjabi)23,000,0004,490,000
>>2,110,000
>> தமிழ் (Tamil)  59,800,000  66,100,000
>>16,600,000
>> తెలుగు (Telugu) 40,100,000  24,900,000
>>  9,230,000
>> اردو(Urdu)  49,900,000  43,100,000
>>   10,500,000
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> --
>> మీ శ్రేయోబిలాషి
>> కశ్యప్
>> kaburlu.wordpress.com
>> 9396533666
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Scholarship team : Status on August 16th, 2011

[Vickram Crishna]

We will try and send the definitive list (sans Program team's suggested
names of Speakers, which is expected by month-end) by tonight to the
Conference list, from where it will be disseminated, together with
guidelines on how the scholarship awards will be effected. As I understand
it, several factors such as confirmation of registration and payment of the
registration fees will inherently be part of the scholarship confirmation,
but please do wait for the mail explaining the details. Your indulgence is
really appreciated.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Saurabh Kushwaha wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Any Updates regarding the Scholarship list of Wiki Conference-2011?
>
> Regards
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 11:02 AM,  wrote:
>
>>  In the coming week. We appreciate your patience in this matter.
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:19:34 +0530
>> From: saurabh@gmail.com
>>
>> To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> CC: vvcris...@gmail.com; whisper.val...@gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Scholarship team : Status on August 16th,
>> 2011
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> When will be the list of shortlisted applicants for the Scholarship for
>> WikiConferance-2011 will be known?
>>
>>  Regards
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Naveen Francis wrote:
>>
>> Scholarship form is closed today morning.
>>
>> Total number of applicants  : 7070
>>
>>
>>   Do you require a full, special or partial scholarship?
>> Full Scholarship, travel and accommodation included
>> 4807 68% Full Special Scholarship, including travel and accommodation for
>> caregiver
>> 380 5% Partial Scholarship, accommodation only
>> 719 10% Partial Scholarship, travel only
>> 389 6% 50% of Travel and Accommodation costs (You bear 50%)
>> 294 4% 75% of Travel and Accomodation costs (You bear 25%)
>> 480 7%
>>   Sex:
>> Male
>> 6331 90% Female
>> 738 10%
>>   Do you plan to speak in Wiki Conference India 2011?
>> Yes
>> 2962 42% No
>> 4107 58%
>>   Do you contribute to Wikimedia commons?(Optional question)
>> Yes
>> 1384 20% No
>> 4194 59%
>>
>> Number of responses without dates: 1
>>   Number of daily responses
>>
>>   Naveen Francis
>>
>> for Scholarship Team, WCI 2011.
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
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>> Class of 2011, NSIT, Delhi University, India
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
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> Class of 2011, NSIT, Delhi University, India
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] unsubscribe your mail.

[Vickram Crishna]

If it was so obvious to us by experience we ;-) wouldn't be on the list,
having unsubscribed. So the truth is we don't really know if it is easy or
hard. But it is Mailman, so it is really easy, and let us not project
difficulties where perhaps laziness is more to blame.

The wording down below can be modified as suggested, to make it clear that
the linked page directly enables both subscribing and unsubscribing, for
those who are clearly too lazy to click to find precisely that.

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Arun Ganesh wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:13 PM,  wrote:
>
>  Kindly use the link at the bottom of the page to unsubscribe yourself.
>>
>> Requesting all those who want to unsubscribe to do so themselves via the
>> link at the bottom of each email from the list and STOP sending such
>> requests to the entire list.
>>
>
> I feel this is more of a usability problem than people being lazy, going by
> the number of such mails. Maybe a modified footer might help?
>
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>
> Lets admit it, the listinfo page is badly laid out and it takes a bit of
> time to figure out how to unsubscribe. Whats obvious from experience for us
> may not be so for others.
>
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:09:46 +0530
>> From: i...@deepamtrust-tn.org
>> To: Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] unsubscribe your mail.
>>
>> we request you kindly unsubscribe your mail
>>
>> deepam trust
>>
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[Wikimediaindia-l] Scholarships WCI2011

[Vickram Crishna]

Hello fellow Wikimedians

As you know, we received 7,070 applications for Scholarships. The
Scholarships Team have now finalised *100* *scholarship awards* on the basis
of merit according to the set criteria, and individual emails are now being
sent to the awardees. As you are probably aware, a fixed sum of money has
been budgeted for this award, and, as it happens, there will be some money
left over.

We Intend to further send out emails to the candidates who are not going to
receive scholarships, a process that is also getting underway now.

However, and we request your *urgent* participation in this process, there
have been a number of calls for using the Scholarship Budget for the purpose
of evening out potential imbalances in attendance at the Conference on
several counts. The remaining money will support a few additional
scholarships, perhaps between 15-30. The number is a variable, as the
Scholarships cover only travel to and fro Mumbai and lodging for the days of
the Conference. The cost of lodging is fixed, but the cost of travel depends
on the journey involved.

The potential categories that can be given a little boost are:

1. Gender (the number of present Wikimedians is heavily weighted towards
males)
2. Persons with disabilities (several Wikimedians with disabilities have
contributed significantly to improving the accessibility of Wikipages for
all persons)
3. Age (very young Wikimedians need to be encouraged to participate, and
very old persons also need to be recognised for their youthful spirit,
enthusiasm and dedication)
4. Indic contributors (as a reflection of the need, and also of the worthy
performance of localised Wikipage creators and supporters)

Awardees within categories 2 and 3 need attendant caregivers (on request, in
some cases, but mandatory for those under 18), and therefore the awarded
Scholarships cover 2 persons each, in 2 cases, so the total awards actually
cover *102 persons*.

Separately, we will inform you of the breakup of these categories from the
current awardees, but *could you please* take the trouble to vote (+1 = Yes,
-1 = No) in each category, about your own opinion about supporting this
endeavour?

Please address your reply to <*wikiconferencein...@gmail.com*> rather than
spam the list (or me), if you don't mind, using the words [WCI2011
Scholarship Poll] in square brackets in the subject line, as shown. This
poll will close at *midnight Thursday Sept 29, 2011*. We will collate the
votes and advise the lists accordingly.

Your assistance via participating in this poll is highly appreciated, and
your patience in wait for this announcement is also much appreciated. We are
sorry it has taken us a little longer than planned to complete this phase of
the Scholarship awards.

-- 
(on behalf of the Scholarships Team)
Vickram
Fool On The Hill 
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India - AGM and Election Results

[Vickram Crishna]

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:29 AM, Akshay Agarwal  wrote:

> Congratulations Naveen, Sudhanwa & Tinu!


+1



>
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 8:58 PM, Jayanta Nath wrote:
>
>> Heartiest Congratulations to the all new board members, they should enrich
>> our wikimedia movement in India.
>>
> --
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia in TN text books

[Vickram Crishna]

That is very interesting. Perhaps the WMF has some mechanism in place to go
to court?

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
rsrikant...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Arun, when has any Indian government ever credited us when flicking
> our images? Even Doordarshan has aired photographs from the Commons
> and put a Copyright 2009, Prasar Bharti notice on it.
> -Re,
> Srikanth.
>
> On 29/09/2011, Srikanth Ramakrishnan  wrote:
> > Thanks for the heads up Srikanth and Bala. The website is a bit buggy
> > on my system. Since I have physical access to the Samacheer textbooks,
> > I shall have a look and post a full page *review* of it. I'll keep you
> > both and Sundar updated on the matter. I believe there is a lot of
> > scope for improvement, which we can suggest. As for the who reads
> > Further Reading matter, I do. The textbook has always been my mortal
> > enemy, hence I always stuck to the further reading sections.
> >  --Re, Srikanth R, Coimbatore.
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my mobile device
> >
> > Regards,
> > ME.
> > Wear a Lungi, Support the Movement
> >  My infrastructure invasion... plus other images
> > too.. on Wikimedia Commons. http://bit.ly/d50SIq
> >
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> Regards,
> ME.
> Wear a Lungi, Support the Movement
>  My infrastructure invasion... plus other images
> too.. on Wikimedia Commons. http://bit.ly/d50SIq
>
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>



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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia in TN text books

[Vickram Crishna]

I am sorry that my simple query did not include my reasoning. The purpose of
going to court is not to enforce rights per se for a particular photograph,
but to send a signal to the government that a right enjoyed by all cannot be
arbitrarily abstracted by the government, and that it amounts to
intellectual theft, aside from a signal failure of the government to protect
the Constitution, which assigns this right.

In fact, we (persons who have a point of view about IPR that is somewhat at
odds with the reasoning that has gone behind the enactment of amendments
and/or rules to the Copyright Act in accordance with certain provisions
under TRIPS etc, and of course we believe that this category should include
all persons in favour of Wikipedia) actually want the opposite, we want the
government to assign public rights by default over all intellectual content
created at public cost, save only that (and it should be specifically
described with a logical, transparent and clear methodology and process, not
some peon lagaaoing a rubber stamp marked 'Secret' with gay abandon, only
because the officer concerned is too lazy or uneducated to do her homework)
content that pertains clearly and unequivocally to national security for
which provision has been made in the Constitution, and of course,
information pertaining to the personal privacy rights of individuals, which
by definition cannot be acquired by the government in the first place
(although it may in the interest of good governance, document or tabulate
such information for specifically defines purposes, and for such purposes
only).

Wow! That's some sentence - it is an example of how legal writing sometime
needs to be nitpickingly precise, even at the cost of obvious clarity.

I am not insisting that WMF or the Chapter take the lead in this matter -
there are plenty of NGOs and brave individuals out there fighting for the
preservation of our fundamental rights. But in this case, it is precisely
WMF (or if you please, the Chapter, although I don't really see the
connection, unless the Chapter charter includes a specific assignment of
rights from the Foundation for such purposes) that is the aggrieved party,
having posted information (or, to be legally specific, enabled the posting)
in the public domain for the common weal, that has been sought to be stolen
arbitrarily and without any form of legal sanction.

My query was only to establish whether Wikimedia in general is playing an
active role in the courts in such matters, in India as well as abroad.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
rsrikant...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gautam, I meant Prasar Bharathi. The parent company of Doordarshan. It
> is a Central Government entity.
> Re,+
> SR, CBE.
>
> On 29/09/2011, Srikanth Ramakrishnan  wrote:
> > Gautam, PB is a CG body, you might want to draft a letter in Hindi or
> > for that matter, in all 22 languages enjoying official status.
> > I think our course of action, now is not to draft letters or go to
> > court, but since we now know that media from the Commons is being used
> > in education, bring more awareness about the Commons and get more
> > contributors.
> >
> > On 29/09/2011, Srikanth Ramakrishnan  wrote:
> >> Arun, when has any Indian government ever credited us when flicking
> >> our images? Even Doordarshan has aired photographs from the Commons
> >> and put a Copyright 2009, Prasar Bharti notice on it.
> >> -Re,
> >> Srikanth.
> >>
> >> On 29/09/2011, Srikanth Ramakrishnan  wrote:
> >>> Thanks for the heads up Srikanth and Bala. The website is a bit buggy
> >>> on my system. Since I have physical access to the Samacheer textbooks,
> >>> I shall have a look and post a full page *review* of it. I'll keep you
> >>> both and Sundar updated on the matter. I believe there is a lot of
> >>> scope for improvement, which we can suggest. As for the who reads
> >>> Further Reading matter, I do. The textbook has always been my mortal
> >>> enemy, hence I always stuck to the further reading sections.
> >>>  --Re, Srikanth R, Coimbatore.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sent from my mobile device
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> ME.
> >>> Wear a Lungi, Support the Movement
> >>>  My infrastructure invasion... plus other images
> >>> too.. on Wikimedia Commons. http://bit.ly/d50SIq
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from my mobile device
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> ME.
> >> Wear a Lungi, Support the Movement
> >>  My infrastructure invasion... plus other images
> >> too.. on Wikimedia Commons. http://bit.ly/d50SIq
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my mobile device
> >
> > Regards,
> > ME.
> > Wear a Lungi, Support the Movement
> >  My infrastructure invasion... plus other images
> > too.. on Wikimedia Commons. http://bit.ly/d50SIq
> >
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> Regards,
> ME.
> Wear a Lungi, Support the Movement
>  My infrastructure invasion... plus other images
> too.. on Wikimedia Commons. http://bit.ly/d50SIq
>
> ___
> Wiki

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia in TN text books

[Vickram Crishna]

On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Gautam John wrote:

> Vickram:
>
> > I am not insisting that WMF or the Chapter take the lead in this matter -
> > there are plenty of NGOs and brave individuals out there fighting for the
> > preservation of our fundamental rights. But in this case, it is precisely
> > WMF (or if you please, the Chapter, although I don't really see the
> > connection, unless the Chapter charter includes a specific assignment of
> > rights from the Foundation for such purposes) that is the aggrieved
> party,
> > having posted information (or, to be legally specific, enabled the
> posting)
> > in the public domain for the common weal, that has been sought to be
> stolen
> > arbitrarily and without any form of legal sanction.
>
> Actually, in this case the aggrieved party is not the Foundation or
> the Chapter but Arun Ganesh. Neither the Foundation nor the Chapter
> derive any rights from the content being available on a WMF project.
>

In this particular case, doubtless Arun Ganesh is specifically aggrieved,
since it was his picture the Government has acquired al la Singur (but
without the comforting legislative sanction such actions normally need), but
WMF's ability to display content in the public domain would be rather
severely constrained if government functionaries made a habit of this sort
of thing. As a matter of fact, we have been discussing on separate threads
just how much that ability is constrained by new definitions in India
extending copyright in text and picture for extended periods that even the
pharmaceutical sector does not enjoy for formulations that have been brought
into the market only after the expenditure of several millions of dollars
(which they ameliorate by 'conducting' clinical tests in India winkety wink
but that's another tale for another thread) in developmental costs.

>
> > My query was only to establish whether Wikimedia in general is playing an
> > active role in the courts in such matters, in India as well as abroad.
>
> Not in India - it's far too soon but in the US, the WMF has filed, via
> EFF, an amicus brief in an ongoing litigation in the US. More here:
>
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/foundation/239118
>
>
Many thanks Gautam. I agree it is probably a little early for the Chapter,
an organisation that is in effect just getting off the ground, but perhaps
it can be taken on board.

> Thank you.
>
> Best,
>
> Gautam
> 
> http://blog.prathambooks.org/p/social-media.html
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamizh Nadu

[Vickram Crishna]

With all due respect to the notion that many hands working can accomplish
more than one, the FOSS community has been working with ELCOT to ensure this
scheme was not hijacked by the proprietary vendor lobby (which nearly
happened even in this round of distribution), and at least at one point in
the past, the inclusion of localised wikipedia was an integral part of that
plan, hence, the creation of a 'source' offline wikipedia was a
fantastically worthwhile project.

 I make this statement particularly in response to a discussion on this list
just a few days back where a Wikipedian made a point of asserting that FOSS'
goals and that of Wikipedians do not match. My point being, while separate
movements may have individual objectives, at least when the common goal of
open knowledge is at stake, a spot of coming together is needed.

That statement was really distressing to read. No war, especially not a war
of ideas, can be considered won when a battle or two is over.

Again, in the runup to the WikiConference 2011, it is being said time and
again that FOSS goals have no place in the conference. Not only is this a
poor intellectual construct, it appears to me that a deliberate movement
exists to exclude FOSSers from even assisting (if they continue to support
FOSS platforms). It really seems very peculiar to me - not that I think
Jimmy Wales is the world's greatest saint or evangelist that ever lived, but
he is the first person to ask the community to understand how using FOSS
tools is a practical and worthwhile part of the Wikipedia experience.

Just yesterday or day before, another thread discussed the current features
of Mailman, our list software tool, which just happens to be FOSS. Somebody
wanted more features - but building in features is exactly the kind of
community-facing endeavour that characterises the difference between the
intellectual approaches to building tools, between FOSS and proprietary. I
could see no indication (so far) that the users concerned were in
conversation with active Mailman devs to see these features become a
reality.

Is it just me, or is there some disconnect or discomfort here?

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Hisham  wrote:

>
>
> On Oct 3, 2011, at 2:14 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan wrote:
>
>
> 9,12 lakh Laptops will be completely distributed by the end of the Academic
> year.
>
>
> We are trying to establish a line of communication with ELCOT to discuss
> how we could have Wikipedia Offline installed on these computers.
>
>
> After all this nonsense, I ask a few questions to several groups of people:
>
>
> This isn't nonsense! It's fantastic context!!!  Many many thanks!
>
>
> 1> The chapter, the Foundation office, and board members. This includes
> Hisham Mundol, Bishakha Dutta, Achal Prabhala, Shiju Alex, Nitika Tandon et
> al.
> Are you willing to launch any school student oriented plan in South India,
> [not limited to TN]?
> I'm not asking for anything similar to the Campus Ambassadors program, but
> more of a series of Seminars, workshops, academies, meetups, tutorials etc.
> We need your support for such a mass scale program, as individually we
> cannot achieve anything.
>
>
> Yes!  Happy to discuss and see how best we can help out.  Let me know when
> we can talk.
>
> 2> South Indian wikipedians, especially the Bangalore, Chennai and Kerala
> communities.
> Are you open to helping us out?
> Especially Kerala, you are the most advanced in the Indic wiki sphere, will
> you please help out your neighbour TN?
>
> I'm willing to do as much as possible from my side[I'm not too good at
> arranging meetups, when I say Wikipedia, people stare at me blankly, and I
> can't explain it to them in Tamil, even though it is my mother tongue].
>
>
> Please do consider this Golden opportunity.
> There is plenty of potential out here.
> The laptops run on Linux, which means, a big boost to Open Source software.
> The primary target is school students, which means, more young editors [and
> oldies in their late teens like me].
>
> I couldn't think of how to say this, but somehow I just typed it and sent
> it.
>
>
> Once again, Thank You for this!
>
> hisham
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] third remaider to stop the mail.

[Vickram Crishna]

I think this instruction has been sent to this ID more than once.

What is the practice with WP mailing lists elsewhere in the world, when
listmembers persist in ignoring replies and continue to spam the list with
unsubscribe requests? Can the member (in this case, an anonymous functionary
of an NGO, apparently) concerned be put on 'moderate'? I do understand that
unilateral banning is not a preferred option.

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Anirudh Bhati  wrote:

> Deepam,
>
> You can use this link to unsubscribe yourself, simply follow the
> instructions:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
> This link is also available in the signature of all the emails that
> are routed through this mailing list.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Anirudh Bhati
>
> +855 975 529 803
> Skype: anirudhsbh
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Deepam Trust 
> wrote:
> > will you stop the mail with out delay
> > ___
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> > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> >
> >
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] WikiAcademy Mumbai 1 notes

[Vickram Crishna]

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Gautam John  wrote:

> On 4 October 2011 00:01, Pradeep Mohandas 
> wrote:
>
> > We held our first WikiAcademy in Mumbai on October 1, 2011 at the Center
> for
> > Education and Documentation, Colaba. The session was attended by 24
> > attendees.
>
> Thanks Pradeep. Seems like it was very well attended and useful to them
> too.
>

Just to add to it: in the round of introductions, several of the attendees
were from NGOs, including our hosts, CED; we had people coming in from Pune
to attend, and most encouraging we had one Wikipedian, User:Outofindia, who
flew in from Mangalore! Other attendees were journalists and educators, plus
one architect. It was a well balanced gender mix.

Another WikiAcademy is planned for Oct 15 in north Mumbai: I believe we need
a show of hands (ie experienced Wikipedia volunteers) to come and assist
with the actual conduct of the session, as neither Pradeep nor Pranav will
be able to attend. Rather than do this onlist, I think it best that
volunteers contact Harshita Pande directly.



>
> Might you consider posting this to
> http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Specific_segment_outreach#Events please? With
> photos, if you have, any?
>
>
Many pictures were taken, and I think they are with CED. Maybe we can
encourage CEDians (who will probably be on this list now) to please upload
the pics to commons? Sans tagging, of course.


> Thank you.
>
> Best,
>
> Gautam
> 
> http://blog.prathambooks.org/p/social-media.html
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Aakash UbiSlate 7

[Vickram Crishna]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Gautam John wrote:

> On 6 October 2011 12:04, Nagarjuna G  wrote:
>
> > This by itself may not be a problem, as long as it is copyrighted with an
> > appropriate CC clause.
> > Let us send a representation.
>
> Will the Chapter consider doing this? And the India Office too? Maybe
> we can ask CC-India as well and CIS too?
>

I'm a a little confused: the wording says IP will reside with MoHRD if the
project is funded by this Mission, whereas afaik, no MHRD funding at all,
never mind this mission, has come to any part of the Wikimedia community in
India. There is no question, therefore, of copyright being 'vested' with
them, and we only need make this clear in the representation.

It should in addition be made clear, therefore, that any content taken from
any Wikimedia project, including Wikipedia, comes with the appropriate CC
copyright.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] The copyright question: What would Gandhi do?

[Vickram Crishna]

Outstanding! 3 words to change the world!

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Achal Prabhala  wrote:

> A friend of mine in South Africa, Isabel Hofmeyr, passed on this image
> of the first page of the first edition of the English translation of
> Gandhi's "Hind Swaraj" - or "Indian Home Rule" in translation. The book
> was published in South Africa in 1909, and is rarely available. Isabel
> was able to see it courtesy Uma Dhupelia-Mesthrie, who owns a copy.
>
> And the copyright legend on this front page? It reads:
>
> "No rights reserved"
>
> Isabel and Uma kindly offered to donate the image to Commons, and you
> can see it here:
>
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gandhi-Home-Rule-First-Edition-1909.jpg
>
> Finally, an answer to the great copyright question that has never been
> asked: "What would Gandhi do?" :)
>
> Cheers,
> Achal
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Aakash UbiSlate 7

[Vickram Crishna]

"Aakash is probably great value for money. But the question is, is it the
best our students deserve. I think not."

Some confusion, I think, about what constitutes value for money. A badly put
together device that has every possibility of failing, and does not have
sufficient battery life to get through the school day, is not value, it's a
waste. Small comfort that it's a waste of 3k instead of 37k.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Bishakha Datta wrote:

> A 
> review<http://ibnlive.in.com/news/review-worlds-cheapest-tablet-akash/192812-11.html>of
>  Aakash.
>
> Best
> Bishakha
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Vickram Crishna 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Gautam John wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 October 2011 12:04, Nagarjuna G  wrote:
>>>
>>> > This by itself may not be a problem, as long as it is copyrighted with
>>> an
>>> > appropriate CC clause.
>>> > Let us send a representation.
>>>
>>> Will the Chapter consider doing this? And the India Office too? Maybe
>>> we can ask CC-India as well and CIS too?
>>>
>>
>> I'm a a little confused: the wording says IP will reside with MoHRD if the
>> project is funded by this Mission, whereas afaik, no MHRD funding at all,
>> never mind this mission, has come to any part of the Wikimedia community in
>> India. There is no question, therefore, of copyright being 'vested' with
>> them, and we only need make this clear in the representation.
>>
>> It should in addition be made clear, therefore, that any content taken
>> from any Wikimedia project, including Wikipedia, comes with the appropriate
>> CC copyright.
>>
>> --
>> Vickram
>> Fool On The Hill <http://communicall.wordpress.com>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Naveen Francis is elected as Secretary

[Vickram Crishna]

Wonderful. Nice to have the community reaching out to you when you're far
from home :-), more incentive to come back asap.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:48 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

> Hearty Congratulations and Best wishes, Naveen.
>
> Regards
> Tinu Cherian
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Arjuna Rao Chavala 
> Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM
> Subject: [Wikimedia-IN-Exec] Naveen Francis is elected as Secretary
> To: wmin-memb...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: Wikimedia India EC 
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am glad to announce that Naveen Francis is elected as Secretary of the
> Wikimedia Chapter. Please join me in congratulating Naveen.
>
> Thanks
> Arjuna Rao Chavala
> President, Wikmedia Chapter.
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Aakash UbiSlate 7

[Vickram Crishna]

>From what has been noised, it will not be available until December. Since
the IBN review mentions an actual piece, there clearly are some floating
about, but one would probably need to get in touch with MoHRD to get
access.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Jessie Wild  wrote:

> Is it possible to get one of these to test the Kiwix offline Wikipedia on?
> Would be interesting to do some usability testing during the India
> Hackathon.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Vickram Crishna  > wrote:
>
>> "Aakash is probably great value for money. But the question is, is it the
>> best our students deserve. I think not."
>>
>> Some confusion, I think, about what constitutes value for money. A badly
>> put together device that has every possibility of failing, and does not have
>> sufficient battery life to get through the school day, is not value, it's a
>> waste. Small comfort that it's a waste of 3k instead of 37k.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Bishakha Datta 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A 
>>> review<http://ibnlive.in.com/news/review-worlds-cheapest-tablet-akash/192812-11.html>of
>>>  Aakash.
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Bishakha
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Vickram Crishna <
>>> vvcris...@radiophony.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Gautam John 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6 October 2011 12:04, Nagarjuna G  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > This by itself may not be a problem, as long as it is copyrighted
>>>>> with an
>>>>> > appropriate CC clause.
>>>>> > Let us send a representation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will the Chapter consider doing this? And the India Office too? Maybe
>>>>> we can ask CC-India as well and CIS too?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm a a little confused: the wording says IP will reside with MoHRD if
>>>> the project is funded by this Mission, whereas afaik, no MHRD funding at
>>>> all, never mind this mission, has come to any part of the Wikimedia
>>>> community in India. There is no question, therefore, of copyright being
>>>> 'vested' with them, and we only need make this clear in the representation.
>>>>
>>>> It should in addition be made clear, therefore, that any content taken
>>>> from any Wikimedia project, including Wikipedia, comes with the appropriate
>>>> CC copyright.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Vickram
>>>> Fool On The Hill <http://communicall.wordpress.com>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>
>
> --
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> *
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Aakash UbiSlate 7

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Gautam John wrote:

> On 18 October 2011 17:16, Sudhanwa Jogalekar 
> wrote:
>
> > Overall, for just 3K , it seems worth buying considering its
> > functionality like internet connectivity, phone calling, various apps
> > etc.. Maybe I will go for one more as standby and still spend just 6k.
>
> Sudhanwa, the question is worth buying for whom? As individual
> purchases, I am fine with it. The Government subsidising it to provide
> to students, I do not agree with because the cost/benefit doesn't make
> much sense.
>
>
We also (although perhaps that is a discussion for a different forum, yet it
has its echo right here, because of the content question) need to understand
whether the government is being ridden on for a parochial purpose.

As it is presently constructed, Aakash seems very unsuitable for higher
education. This may seem an extreme view, but I think we have no reason to
accept the present quality of higher education as acceptable, for our
country, for our children. This debate is already taking place at the level
of such celebrity techies as Infosys' emeritus chairman, Narayana Murthy,
who has voiced his concern about the premier IITS and IIMs (or maybe he
restricted himself to IITs, and it hardly takes much to open one's eyes to
the fact that the IITs are not and cannot be the end-all and be-all of
higher learning in India). Will this device contribute to raising the bar at
our institutes of higher learning? I don't think so.

It might be useful as a supplement for secondary education, but even there,
its low battery life is worrying. The possibility of recharging regularly,
or of providing widely distributed electricity to keep the device working
during the normal school day, is simply a pipe dream for the foreseeable
future. I am not so concerned about the lack of support for Android Market,
provided an alternate channel for maintaining and upgrading the device is
created and made available in a meaningful manner. There is no information
about any such infrastructure. Tacky construction will have disastrous
results for devices placed in the hands of playful schoolchildren. And as of
yet, there is no framework of pedagogy to use the device. Who will help
implement such a pedagogy when it is developed? Schoolteachers who have not
yet put their hands on their first working personal computers?

Also, MoHRD does not have a remit to bring a device like this to secondary
schools. As such, it falls between two stools.

Does the Ministry have good reason to believe that neither private industry
nor any collective of techies is gearing to make an affordable and
meaningful device possible? If so, I would like to know their source of
information. I am aware of several such projects taking place worldwide in
the non-private sector, and from the private sector, creating niche products
for every conceivable segment seems to be happening almost continuously, or
at any rate, at a bewildering speed.

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[Wikimediaindia-l] Wonders of the Post-Modern World - Wikipedia

[Vickram Crishna]

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/young-restless/seven-wonders-of-the-post-modern-world

"What are the Seven Wonders of the Post-Modern World?
...

Here is a revised list:
*1. Wikipedia:* The sum of all human knowledge. This is only a starting
point to our greater quest in constructing the hitchhiker's guide to the
galaxy, or the Encyclopedia Galactica. One of the great and rare examples of
collaboration in the violent history of our specie. Thanks to the
information organised there, the industrial complex of schools is being
threatened by universal access and autodidactism. For instance, this article
has been largely sourced from Wikipedia."


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[Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: [fosscomm] Open Access to Academic Knowledge at Bangalore on 2nd Nov 14:30 - 17:00 hrs

[Vickram Crishna]

fyi: Bangaloreans (and the neighborhood) who may (should?) want to attend
this critical event tomorrow.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Sridhar Gutam 
Date: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:24 AM
Subject: [fosscomm] Open Access to Academic Knowledge at Bangalore on 2nd
Nov 14:30 - 17:00 hrs
To: Indian FOSS Community Network list , LIS
Forum , lislfo...@gmail.com


Dear All,

With an aim to get people in Bangalore more aware of Open Access and how to
improve the current situation in India. The Indian Institute of Science and
the Centre for Internet and Society are holding an afternoon workshop on
Wednesday the 2nd of November on the topic of 'Open Access to Academic
Knowledge'.

The event will take place in the Seminar Hall of the National Centre for
Science Information, within the Indian Institute of Science from 14:30 to
17:00.The event will involve a few short presentations and then a
discussion.

It would be great to have all kinds of people attend and share ideas on
improving Open Access in India.

For more information please contact Tom Dane (t...@cis-india.org), on behalf
of the Centre for Internet and Society and the Indian Institute of Science.

Thanks & Regards
Sridhar
_
Sridhar Gutam PhD, ARS, PG Dip Patent Laws (NALSAR), IP & Biotechnology
(WIPO)
Senior Scientist (Plant Physiology) & Joint Secretary, ARSSF
Central Institute for Subtropical Horticulture (CISH)
Rehmankhera, P.O.Kakori, Lucknow 227107, Uttar Pradesh, India
Fax: +91-522-2841025, Phone: +91-522-2841022/23/24; Mobile:+91-9005760036

CISH http://www.cishlko.org
ARSSF http://www.arssf.co.nr
My site http://www.gutam.co.nr
My Publications http://works.bepress.com/sridhar_gutam/
My Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/gutam2000
My Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gutamsridhar
My LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sridhargutam

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[Wikimediaindia-l] Wired article: wikipedia

[Vickram Crishna]

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/st_essay_wikipediawonders/

Essentially a critique of standards being adopted (mainly by UNESCO) to
classify human endeavour as worthy of being noted as 'heritage', the
article points to Wikipedia as the logical embodiment of a heritage worth
revering: "Wikipedia protects the past without impeding the future."

Whether we consider recognition by UNESCO as worth anything or not, this
description itself stands out, pointing the way forward for intelligent
humans to value our futures without trashing the past. More than any other
method of capsuling human endeavour, Wikipedia enables us to gain from
knowledge, and to contribute to the growing store of knowledge, without in
any way detracting from the notable achievements of those who did so
earlier, without which our present accomplishments would not be possible.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Noteworthy Wikimedian Recognition

[Vickram Crishna]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:04 AM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

>
> Do notice that we had intentionally named it as "Noteworthy Wikimedian"
> and not "Best Wikimedian" !
>
> So what could you and everyone do ? Find them, nominate and recognize
> them.
>
>
>

+1


>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Ravishankar  wrote:
>
>> Arjuna,
>>
>> I am not very excited with this idea of a jury for picking noteworthy
>> Wikimedians.
>>
>> 1. Many noteworthy Wikimedians are serving in Jury, conference
>> activities, chapter and WMF. Omitting them from the recognition will
>> not give a real picture to the public.
>>
>> 2. Having a jury to pick this seems so Un-Wikipediac. Only in extreme
>> cases, we have a jury in Wikimedia projects. Usually, the nomination
>> and approval is done by the community itself.
>>
>> 3.There are tens of noteworthy Wikimedians for each Wikipedia. An
>> example for Tamil Wikipedia alone at
>>
>> http://tawp.in/r/1eyn
>>
>> I can't nominate just one or two as every one's contribution is
>> valuable and unique. Not good to have a competition sort of thing and
>> upset a lot of people.
>>
>> 3. What is the point of a citation / certificate in this digital age?
>> What is the purpose achieved after the event is over?
>>
>> I would recommend requesting each language community and project to
>> suggest noteworthy contributions with a mini profile and make a audio
>> / visual out of it. These people can be interviewed and the content
>> can be used in the conference venue and future outreach activities.
>> This will be a powerful way to motivate and recognize a lot of people.
>>
>> Ravi
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*

[Vickram Crishna]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Erik Moeller  wrote:

> And - to stay with the sandbox metaphor from another thread - if the
> majority of contributors to a university-based program in India can
> reach won't be able to contribute at an acceptable quality in WP
> proper, then perhaps it's also time to think about more aggressive
> sandboxing of contributions early in the game, at least when we're
> dealing with a course where we either don't know what to expect, or we
> _do_ based on experiences like the one to date. Possibly even using an
> external sandbox.
>
>
If I understand it rightly, Erik points out that one of the questions
raised here is the validity of the University-centric approach to this
program.

Hisham will recall I had queried this approach at a meetup way back when.
This was before I found that it had a history, being a successful
initiative in another milieu. I am sure now, with this experience, we can
find ways to make the program work more effectively here, one possibility
(not the only one) being shedding the college campus-centric focus, and
reaching out more widely to people, in order to welcome more people within
the contributory fold.  As Abhilash points out, this was a pilot, and it is
up to us to evaluate its learnings and move forward from it, not trash it
or its participants.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wiki Drugs

[Vickram Crishna]

I am not familiar with the online availability of pharmaceutical
information of drugs made in India. Do websites of manufacturers not list
the drugs they make? Is there any issue with citing the manufacturer's list
of drugs?

What about online pharmacopeia? Do Indian associations not list the drugs
made in India? It seems to me this is a very basic requirement, the lack of
which (if correct) can be addressed by an RTI to the Ministry of Health,
possible bringing about a solution within months.

A very similar action could happen with indigenous pharmacopeia, but there
may be genuine difficulty with an authoritative source for the
medicines/manufacturers/vendors/formulations, as the regulations for these
may not be of the same order. Again, there is no logical reason why this
situation should be permitted or encouraged to continue - it is in our own
interest to see it improve. Oral citations may be the way forward.

2011/11/22 ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) 

> User: Netha Hussain +1
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 23:42, Netha Hussain wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am a 3rd year student of medicine from Kerala.Though I work on
>> ml.wikipedia, I have recently started editing pharmacology-related
>> articles on en.wikipedia. I have noticed the same insufficiency you
>> mentioned. On Wikipedia, we do have articles covering various drugs
>> their actions and side effects, but most often they are not useful to
>> the public as these articles do not contain the proprietary(trade)
>> names of the drugs.
>>  Most of the trade names listed in Wikipedia are those from the US or
>> UK. Presently, the state of things in en.wikipedia is such  that if
>> an Indian trade name is added to the  Wikipedia page of a drug, it
>> gets deleted soon because of notability reasons. People often search
>> for the trade names on Wikipedia as they do not know the generic names
>> of the same. The end result is that those looking for information
>> about a particular drug on google end up reaching sites other than
>> Wikipedia.
>>
>> Projects of this kind are something I am looking forward to. Though I
>> am still a student, I would like to get invloved in this project(or
>> similar projects) if ever we plan to launch it.
>>
>> Regards
>> User: Netha Hussain
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/20/11, RadhaKrishna Arvapally 
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> >
>> > Some time back I was looking for some drug information (which was in my
>> > doctor's prescription).
>> > Then I was thinking why that information was not there in wikipedia.
>> > I found few wonderful sites which gives that kind of information.
>> >
>> > http://www.mims.com/index.aspx?Ctry=IN
>> > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/
>> > http://www.webmd.com
>> >
>> > I searched on google for information on a drug prescribed by my doctor.
>> > collected lots of info from various sources and added to wikipedia. And
>> I
>> > was hoping I can add few more drugs when ever I visit a doctor. later my
>> > article was deleted quoting advertising of my own product.
>> >
>> > I was thinking some kind of wikiDrug would help in understanding
>> > composition, use, side effects of each drug.
>> > Incubation of such project would be helpful.
>> >
>> > I found the following website which use wikipedia's logo too. I am sure
>> > this is nothing to do with wikimedia foundation project. (see the
>> copyright
>> > in the bottom)
>> > http://wikidrugs.org/
>> >
>> > It is imitation of wikipedia.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thanks & Regards,
>> > A.Radha Krishna
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Arkrishna
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Netha Hussain
>> *nethahussain.blogspot.com
>> swethaambari.wordpress.com*
>>
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[Wikimediaindia-l] Braille/touchscreen integration

[Vickram Crishna]

Several persons attending the recent WikiConfIndia 2011 drew attention to
the need for greater ease of use for persons with visual challenges - Barry
Newstead referred specifically to this need, commenting that in general,
usability improvements for persons with special needs pay off for the
community at large.

This recent development at Stanford
http://www.springwise.com/lifestyle_leisure/braille-writing-software-touchscreen-devices/describes
how visually impaired persons with Braille skills can interact
directly with touchscreen devices. What is very striking about this
solution is that it does not involve tactile feedback, as one might expect.
Instead, once switched to Braille mode, the screen senses multiple finger
placement and translates that into the expected Braille codes (see the
video to understand this, if you are unfamiliar with Braille typing).

To echo Barry's comments made at WCI2011, I think a certain amount of such
out-of-the-box thinking could go a long way to creating an interface that
is intuitively more approachable than the present wiki editor.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Braille/touchscreen integration

[Vickram Crishna]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:11 AM, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:

> Hoi,
> I do not know exactly how Braille works but if a character in a
> standard script can be represented by Braille characters in stead,
> then all it seems to need is a method for us to replace the existing
> Unicode character with the Braille Unicode character. As we already
> have WebFonts functionality it seems to me that what is needed is a
> conversion before the characters are send to the user. When this is
> done, we can show you the Braille characters on your screen.
>

What works for persons with visual challenges, who have been trained to use
Braille typing, is the sequence of simultaneous keypresses that translate
into language characters (there are Braille variants for non-Roman
scripts). Since the visually challenged person cannot see the screen in any
case, the display is not the point. This particular solution allows the
touchscreen to accept multiple fingertip contact as individual characters,
and of course, for the screen to switch smoothly between screen reading
(TTS) and data entry.

>
> When a Braille keyboard is used, what is needed is to convert the
> Braille sequences to whatever script / language is used before it is
> actually saved.
>
> +1


> I am convinced that there are many developers both in India and in the
> rest of the world who are able to take on this challenge and have a
> proof of concept in a week.
>

Remember it has to be integrated with the TTS used by the device. There are
several out there, with different kinds of 'voices', a major one I know
about being Festival (FOSS), but at the Conference, several persons
referred to eSpeak. An important related piece of work is to augment the
existing TTS' with Indian languages, also (for English) with Indian
accents.

Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On 24 November 2011 22:12, Pradeep Mohandas
>  wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > We were happy to have people with visual challenges challenging our
> > interactions with them. I, personally, was challenged at at least two
> points
> > in the conference although I thought I had been sensitized for such
> > interactions.
> >
> > We do have an online feedback form for the Conference but wonder whether
> we
> > can have more ways to reach people with visual challenges and the aged
> for
> > feedback on how the Conference treated them and how we can improve our
> > communication of the Conference (in future) to them.
> >
> > Thank you for bringing up this point, Vickram.
> >
> > warm regards,
> > Pradeep Mohandas
> >
> > User:Prad2609
> >
> > 
> > Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:45:03 +0530
> > From: vvcris...@radiophony.com
> > To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Braille/touchscreen integration
> >
> > Several persons attending the recent WikiConfIndia 2011 drew attention to
> > the need for greater ease of use for persons with visual challenges -
> Barry
> > Newstead referred specifically to this need, commenting that in general,
> > usability improvements for persons with special needs pay off for the
> > community at large.
> >
> > This recent development at Stanford
> >
> http://www.springwise.com/lifestyle_leisure/braille-writing-software-touchscreen-devices/
> > describes how visually impaired persons with Braille skills can interact
> > directly with touchscreen devices. What is very striking about this
> solution
> > is that it does not involve tactile feedback, as one might expect.
> Instead,
> > once switched to Braille mode, the screen senses multiple finger
> placement
> > and translates that into the expected Braille codes (see the video to
> > understand this, if you are unfamiliar with Braille typing).
> >
> > To echo Barry's comments made at WCI2011, I think a certain amount of
> such
> > out-of-the-box thinking could go a long way to creating an interface
> that is
> > intuitively more approachable than the present wiki editor.
> >
> > --
> > Vickram
> > Fool On The Hill
> >
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Braille/touchscreen integration

[Vickram Crishna]

Hello

The article is very clear: it is touchscreen for data entry, not reading.
The device (integrated with TTS) reads out the characters as they are being
typed.

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gerard, Vickram,
> From my experience I know that Braille is a physically read language. It
> is read by feeling the raised dots on a surface. Eg: On elevator buttons, a
> series of dots on each button.
> I fail to understand how a touch screen display can work here.
> Regards,
> Srikanth
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Vickram Crishna  > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:11 AM, Gerard Meijssen <
>> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>> I do not know exactly how Braille works but if a character in a
>>> standard script can be represented by Braille characters in stead,
>>> then all it seems to need is a method for us to replace the existing
>>> Unicode character with the Braille Unicode character. As we already
>>> have WebFonts functionality it seems to me that what is needed is a
>>> conversion before the characters are send to the user. When this is
>>> done, we can show you the Braille characters on your screen.
>>>
>>
>> What works for persons with visual challenges, who have been trained to
>> use Braille typing, is the sequence of simultaneous keypresses that
>> translate into language characters (there are Braille variants for
>> non-Roman scripts). Since the visually challenged person cannot see the
>> screen in any case, the display is not the point. This particular solution
>> allows the touchscreen to accept multiple fingertip contact as individual
>> characters, and of course, for the screen to switch smoothly between screen
>> reading (TTS) and data entry.
>>
>>>
>>> When a Braille keyboard is used, what is needed is to convert the
>>> Braille sequences to whatever script / language is used before it is
>>> actually saved.
>>>
>>> +1
>>
>>
>>> I am convinced that there are many developers both in India and in the
>>> rest of the world who are able to take on this challenge and have a
>>> proof of concept in a week.
>>>
>>
>> Remember it has to be integrated with the TTS used by the device. There
>> are several out there, with different kinds of 'voices', a major one I know
>> about being Festival (FOSS), but at the Conference, several persons
>> referred to eSpeak. An important related piece of work is to augment the
>> existing TTS' with Indian languages, also (for English) with Indian
>> accents.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>>   GerardM
>>>
>>> On 24 November 2011 22:12, Pradeep Mohandas
>>>  wrote:
>>> > hi,
>>> >
>>> > We were happy to have people with visual challenges challenging our
>>> > interactions with them. I, personally, was challenged at at least two
>>> points
>>> > in the conference although I thought I had been sensitized for such
>>> > interactions.
>>> >
>>> > We do have an online feedback form for the Conference but wonder
>>> whether we
>>> > can have more ways to reach people with visual challenges and the aged
>>> for
>>> > feedback on how the Conference treated them and how we can improve our
>>> > communication of the Conference (in future) to them.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for bringing up this point, Vickram.
>>> >
>>> > warm regards,
>>> > Pradeep Mohandas
>>> >
>>> > User:Prad2609
>>> >
>>> > 
>>> > Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:45:03 +0530
>>> > From: vvcris...@radiophony.com
>>> > To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> > Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Braille/touchscreen integration
>>> >
>>> > Several persons attending the recent WikiConfIndia 2011 drew attention
>>> to
>>> > the need for greater ease of use for persons with visual challenges -
>>> Barry
>>> > Newstead referred specifically to this need, commenting that in
>>> general,
>>> > usability improvements for persons with special needs pay off for the
>>> > community at large.
>>> >
>>> > This recent development at Stanford
>>> >
>>> http://www.springwise.com/lifestyle_leisure/braille-writing-software-touchscreen-devices/
>>>

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Braille/touchscreen integration

[Vickram Crishna]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If it is about data entry, then Braille doesn't really play much of a role
> does it?
> AFAIK, visually challenged people don't 'write' in Braille, just read.
> Correct me if I'm wrong please.
>

+1. Please read the article and view the video, otherwise we might as well
be on two different planets :-)

And please don't just take my word for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille


> --Regards,
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Vickram Crishna  > wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> The article is very clear: it is touchscreen for data entry, not reading.
>> The device (integrated with TTS) reads out the characters as they are being
>> typed.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
>> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Gerard, Vickram,
>>> From my experience I know that Braille is a physically read language. It
>>> is read by feeling the raised dots on a surface. Eg: On elevator buttons, a
>>> series of dots on each button.
>>> I fail to understand how a touch screen display can work here.
>>> Regards,
>>> Srikanth
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Vickram Crishna <
>>> vvcris...@radiophony.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:11 AM, Gerard Meijssen <
>>>> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>> I do not know exactly how Braille works but if a character in a
>>>>> standard script can be represented by Braille characters in stead,
>>>>> then all it seems to need is a method for us to replace the existing
>>>>> Unicode character with the Braille Unicode character. As we already
>>>>> have WebFonts functionality it seems to me that what is needed is a
>>>>> conversion before the characters are send to the user. When this is
>>>>> done, we can show you the Braille characters on your screen.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What works for persons with visual challenges, who have been trained to
>>>> use Braille typing, is the sequence of simultaneous keypresses that
>>>> translate into language characters (there are Braille variants for
>>>> non-Roman scripts). Since the visually challenged person cannot see the
>>>> screen in any case, the display is not the point. This particular solution
>>>> allows the touchscreen to accept multiple fingertip contact as individual
>>>> characters, and of course, for the screen to switch smoothly between screen
>>>> reading (TTS) and data entry.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When a Braille keyboard is used, what is needed is to convert the
>>>>> Braille sequences to whatever script / language is used before it is
>>>>> actually saved.
>>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I am convinced that there are many developers both in India and in the
>>>>> rest of the world who are able to take on this challenge and have a
>>>>> proof of concept in a week.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Remember it has to be integrated with the TTS used by the device. There
>>>> are several out there, with different kinds of 'voices', a major one I know
>>>> about being Festival (FOSS), but at the Conference, several persons
>>>> referred to eSpeak. An important related piece of work is to augment the
>>>> existing TTS' with Indian languages, also (for English) with Indian
>>>> accents.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>   GerardM
>>>>>
>>>>> On 24 November 2011 22:12, Pradeep Mohandas
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> > hi,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > We were happy to have people with visual challenges challenging our
>>>>> > interactions with them. I, personally, was challenged at at least
>>>>> two points
>>>>> > in the conference although I thought I had been sensitized for such
>>>>> > interactions.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > We do have an online feedback form for the Conference but wonder
>>>>> whether we
>>>>> > can have more ways to reach people with visual challenges and the
>>>>> aged for
>>>&g

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] People of stature unhappy with own articles

[Vickram Crishna]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> WhereDevilsDare,
> As Bala pointed out, pages have to be neutral.
> Example:Look at any Politician's page, it's always Pro-them, rarely is it
> balanced.
> We need to have things neutral.
> If these guys get to decide what goes on their page, it'll be a Conflict
> of Interest.
>

+1


> Even a simple controversy against a person, if added, shouldn't be removed.
>

This is true, but it does not mean that unproven allegations form part of
acceptable content, I think. If a person is accused, for instance, in
court, that charge may be mentioned, but not giving the impression the
charge is proven. Citations will be very important in such situations.
Since only a handful of courts in India have gone online, it may be
difficult to assert charges filed in some courts.



> Regards,
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Bala Jeyaraman wrote:
>
>> Yes there is. direct them to
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AUTOPROB#Problems_in_an_article_about_you
>>
>> But they shouldn't be expecting wikipedia to do a whitewashing / PR fluff
>> job on it. Sometimes, if they are actually trying to remove negative
>> material about them  (and there is a ton of it in RS) it leads to a
>> backlash and more gets added to the article. (
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striesand_effect)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:30 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>>  Hiya,
>>>
>>> Me and a couple of others have been contacted by a couple of people of
>>> stature having Wikipedia articles about themselves recently about the
>>> articles having derogatory and inaccurate information about them. Is there
>>> any procedure set which such people can follow to have an admin look into
>>> their page?
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th.
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis

[Vickram Crishna]

Assuming this question is not restricted for WMF outreachers only:

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:01 PM, sankarshan wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Nitika  wrote:
>
> > How many students edited articles outside of their in-class assignments?
>
> This is an interesting and non-trivial question. Which prompts me to
> ask - why would you want to track this ?
>
> It is quite possible that many students get conditioned to look at school
assignments as 'work', and either try and avoid doing any work outside of
the amount specifically committed, or avoid doing anything considered as
work outside of the time allotted for 'work'.

As a corollary, although I do not fancy that Wikimedia is attempting to
directly change the way that our education system works in practice,
students who treat contributing to Wikipedia/Wikimedia as 'fun' may be
better tuned to handling life tasks better/more responsibly in the future.

Lots of imponderables, I know, but there must be something measurable
between students who emerge from school having learned something (and
continue to learn happily) and those who only get through examinations.

-- 
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [[Brian Horrocks]] not an Indian FA

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Ashwin Baindur wrote:

> Thanks Srikanth, but I'm surprised you come across it at all. Brian
> Horrocks was a British general, from the British Army (not from British
> Indian Arny), did not serve in India, not involved in any campaign where
> Indian troops served (except North Africa). Generally famous in the Indian
> context for his exploits with the White Russians (Kolchak's Gold) and for
> Operation Market Garden (Aacted by Edward Fox in "A bridge too far") but
> nothing to do with India except for the accidental fact of his birth.


While acknowledging all the points made wrt Gen Horrocks' life, I can't
help but feel that it parallels another couple of Britishers of more recent
times who are treated (in some circles in India at least) as locals: Cliff
Richards (born Harry Webb in Lucknow) and the late Freddy Mercury (born
Fardoon Bulsara, early years in Bombay), both well-known entertainers. It
may be OT to the discussion on Horrocks, but it does raise some thought
about what we do and perhaps should take as subjects of Indian interest.
Having said which, I have not participated at all in the India project, so
please  feel free to ignore my suggestion.



>
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> --
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Aswin,
>> true, I don't have it on my talk page, but most India editors do stumble
>> across the page every few weeks. We all used to, back in 2009.
>> --
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Ashwin Baindur > > wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed in principle with Pradeep, but let some talk of content take
>>> place here. I'm sure the majority of wikimedia-l readers do not have WT:IN
>>> on their watchlist.
>>>
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>>
>>> Ashwin Baindur
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
>>> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>


 On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Pradeep Mohandas <
 pradeep.mohan...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  I think the list should be used more as a helpful pointer and as much
> discussion as possible should be done on Wikipedia itself. I think there
> are more lists than Wikipedians can handle and more time is spent on the
> lists than on editing Wikipedia, which is what we're primarily here for.
>

 +1.

>
> warm regards,
> Pradeep
>
> User:Prad2609
>
> --
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:14:00 +0530
> From: parakara.gh...@gmail.com
> To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [[Brian Horrocks]] not an Indian FA
>
>
> I agree more with Swaroop, but since the English wikipedia is picking
> itself up and dusting itself again, we may want one.
> --Re,
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Swaroop Rao 
> wrote:
>
> Good idea, but then, shouldn't we be using 
> WT:INfor these? :)
>
>
> Swaroop Rao
> (MikeLynch )
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 21:47, Shiju Alex 
> wrote:
>
> I think what Srikanth meant is, creating a separate mailing list for
> English wikipedians from India to discuss their topics of interest. I too
> think that is a good idea.
>
> Shiju
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Ashwin Baindur <
> ashwin.bain...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is that what you mean, Srikanth?
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_India/Recognized_content
>
> I was also not aware till Pranav dhowed me the link today.
>
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> --
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ashwin,
> I think the Indian English community needs a list of it's own.
> Re,
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Ashwin Baindur <
> ashwin.bain...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I found TinuCherianBot had mistakenly made Brian Horrocks, a British
> Army general unconnected with India except for his birth, as part of
> WikiProject India, a false positive. Sorry guys, he has nothing to do with
> us. We are now down another FA.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> --
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis

[Vickram Crishna]

Relax, Pradeep. The confusion/noise is only from the fact that OSM has been
a longstanding acronym for Open Street Maps, which is an important facet of
Open Knowledge Culture. To be very frank, I was completely unaware of the
term OSM for Open Source Movement, and also read Tory's acronym as Open
Street Maps, and while being very pleased to learn that Sudhanwa was a
contributor to it, was confused in equal measure by (what I assumed was)
his shyness to being identified with Wikimedia.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Pradeep Mohandas <
pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi,
>
> Since I am creating noise on the list, I apologise and resign from the
> list. Hope the signal levels go back up.
> If there is no article on OSM, please WP:BEBOLD and create one.
> Wikipedian vocabulary is not limited by the content of Wikimedia
> projects but rather by day to day usage.
>
> Again, apologies. I am sorry to see this mailing list also getting as
> divided as things are in the OSM.
>
> warm regards,
> Pradeep
> User:Prad2609
> Handheld.
>
> On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind  wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Pradeep Mohandas
> >  wrote:
> >> hi Anivar,
> >>
> >> Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all
> >> on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to
> >> adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and
> >> adjust.
> >
> > Pradep, I pointed it because that acronym created confusion in this list
> > Sudhavana understood OSM as Open street Maps, in the same way as i
> > understood.
> > I feel your mail is adding further noise to thread
> >
> >> Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good
> >> intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF.
> >>
> > en:wp does not have a page on Open source Movement
> > It is FSM.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement
> >
> > Anivar
> >
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Pradeep Mohandas
> How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal wants to censor social media

[Vickram Crishna]

I don't know whether a discussion on social networking is really directly
on-topic for this list, but the reality is that the provisions of the law
as it stands right now are certainly of dire portent for a free and
fearlessly neutral Wikipedia and its associated projects. What Mr Sibal
appears to be suggesting goes much further than the law, and as has been
argued by several lawyers and Constitutional experts already, goes beyond
the Constitution. Today social networking, tomorrow any other online
content.

To take the subject most tiresomely and hotly debated during our recent
Wikipedia Conference in Mumbai, maps. Those of us online in the 90s had to
suffer the anachronistic and quite patently ridiculous rules of the GoI
regarding maps in those days: publishing of anything faintly accurate about
India was well-nigh impossible, publishing sensible guidebooks totally
impossible for anywhere off the beaten track. To get a detailed map of
anywhere Indian, one had to pose as a student and trek to Calcutta's
(that's what it was in those days) Survey Institute where you could get a
physical copy for a few rupees. Reproducing verboten, in any form, a
jailable offence.

Google Maps was deemed against national security, until our Air Chief
Marshal went public saying he had no objections, that any 'enemy's'
airfields were as liable to be exposed as ours.

In this particular case, pretty well all the 'proprietary' social networks
have a very clear policy that legally objectionable content will be taken
down upon receipt of a complaint. Obviously this does not happen overnight,
and this is not what Mr Sibal objects to anyway. No, he wants the content
to be pre-screened. If the same rule of thumb was applied to cases
instituted by the Government of India against ordinary citizens  (in
criminal and civil matters) in court, a great many would be dismissed
immediately, I daresay, as the evidence is found to be wanting once the
case is heard. If it was applied to arrests by the police, the situation
would be much worse, and the police would be almost completely incapable of
carrying out any work at all.

To some extent, the pressure on our public servants (elected or otherwise)
is psychologically enormous, they deal with incredibly complex problems
almost routinely. And most matters do get dealt with reasonably well. It is
the silliness of autocracy that stands out most sharply in an increasingly
online and increasingly less nationalistic world. Just as being cut off
from connectivity can sometimes turn out to be a welcome relief, perhaps
some of these fellows need a break from politics. It is a shame that our
system of governance does not seem to allow for such breaks, as many of
these jobs are also under the hidden pressure of internal competition.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Achal Prabhala  wrote:

> fyi
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject:Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to
> Censor
> social
> Date:   Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530
> From:   Achal Prabhala 
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <
> foundatio...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
>
>
> Some updates on this, for anyone interested:
>
>
> http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/any-normal-human-being-would-be-offended/
>
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/facebook-google-tell-india-they-wont-screen-for-derogatory-content/2011/12/06/gIQAUo59YO_blog.html
>
>
> http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2011/12/06/indias-dreams-of-web-censorship/#axzz1fpN86lWI
>
>
> http://www.legallyindia.com/201112072434/Regulatory/kapil-sibal-to-sterilise-net-but-cis-sting-shows-6-out-of-7-websites-already-trigger-happy-to-censor-content-under-chilling-it-act
>
>
> http://www.livemint.com/2011/12/06130244/Govt-wants-to-scrub-the-Intern.html
>
> There's still no clarity on what Kapil Sibal meant/means; whether he's
> serious; and the rules of the proposed IT act are still worrying; but at
> least the outcry is now entrenched.
>
>
> On Tuesday 06 December 2011 10:24 PM, Bishakha Datta wrote:
> >  On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Kim Bruning
> wrote:
> >
> >>  On Tue, Dec 06, 2011 at 09:25:03PM +0530, Achal Prabhala wrote:
> >>>  On Tuesday 06 December 2011 08:27 PM, Kim Bruning wrote:
>   I do not  believe that the Indian internet community shares Kapil
>   Sibal's position. Though they'll have to speak for
>   themselves, of course! :-)
> >>>  They have:
> >>>
> >>>  http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=2664
> >>>
> >>>  and Mr Sibal's passing thought of yesterday is probably not going
> >>  anywhere.
> >>
> >>  And hurrah for that!  :-)
> >>
> >  A cautious hurrah.
> >
> >  In April this year, the Indian government tried to restrict web content
> by
> >  holding sites and service providers - or 'intermediaries' liable for
> >  content.
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/technology/28internet.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=india%20online&st=cse
> >
> >  These new rules will be considered by Parliamen

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Re: Indian Minister Kapil Sibal wants to censor social media

[Vickram Crishna]

Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it
- yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current
affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting
every side of the picture is important.

Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally
hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag
#IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

> On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
>
> " Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
>
> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-cant-censor-the-internet/articleshow/11018330.cms
>
>
> "*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential
> that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to
> self-regulation. *
> *
> *
> *3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have
> imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and
> comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries
> like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
> *
> *
> *If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.
> * "
>
>
> Regards
> Tinu Cherian
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will
>> hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
>>
>> On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan  wrote:
>> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> fyi
>> >>
>> >>  Original Message 
>> >> Subject:Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to
>> >> Censor
>> >> social
>> >> Date:   Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530
>> >> From:   Achal Prabhala 
>> >> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <
>> >> foundatio...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> >>
>> >
>> > I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to be
>> of
>> > the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is
>> > proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and connecting
>> the
>> > two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his
>> > support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every
>> byte
>> > of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2
>> > different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed
>> with
>> > its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much
>> > more than images.
>> >
>> > If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think Wikimedia
>> > projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media sites
>> > cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
>> goes
>> > to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions
>> and
>> > some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go.
>> > Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much
>> work
>> > to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community if
>> > such a thing happens.
>> >
>> > There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to
>> submit
>> > to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
>> does
>> > not arise for us to take those tough calls.
>> >
>> > PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
>> high
>> > SNR IMO.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Regards
>> > Srikanth.L
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>> Regards,
>> Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
>> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th.
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
>>
>> ___
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>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
>


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Re: Indian Minister Kapil Sibal wants to censor social media

[Vickram Crishna]

Exactly my point. I suspect that the addition of a line referring to the
current controversy, where the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal has been trending,
and to quote some of the numbers over time during this crisis, would not be
out of place.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

> Adding "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" on the Wikipedia article is vandalism
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubmit&diff=464355055&oldid=464353638
>
>
> Addling "verifiable facts" is acceptable ( including controversies and
> criticism"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubmit&diff=464367647&oldid=464366606
>
>
> Hope I clarified the difference.
>
> Regards
> Tinu Cherian
>
> P.S. On a lighter note, Please feel to add "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" , if
> you can provide/prove that with "Verifiable references" from "Reliable
> Sources" :)
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Vickram Crishna 
> wrote:
>
>> Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done
>> it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current
>> affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting
>> every side of the picture is important.
>>
>> Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally
>> hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag
>> #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
>>
>>  On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham <
>> tinucher...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
>>>
>>> " Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
>>>
>>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-cant-censor-the-internet/articleshow/11018330.cms
>>>
>>>
>>> "*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential
>>> that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to
>>> self-regulation. *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have
>>> imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and
>>> comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries
>>> like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct
>>> it.* "
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tinu Cherian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
>>> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will
>>>> hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
>>>>
>>>> On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan  wrote:
>>>> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> fyi
>>>> >>
>>>> >>  Original Message 
>>>> >> Subject:Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants
>>>> to
>>>> >> Censor
>>>> >> social
>>>> >> Date:   Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530
>>>> >> From:   Achal Prabhala 
>>>> >> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <
>>>> >> foundatio...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to
>>>> be of
>>>> > the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is
>>>> > proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and
>>>> connecting the
>>>> > two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his
>>>> > support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every
>>>> byte
>>>> > of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2
>>>> > different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be
>>>> discussed with
>>>> > its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means
>>>> much
>>>> > more than images.
>>>> >
>>>> > If at all the legislation comes and is being enf

[Wikimediaindia-l] OT FOSS assist WAS Re: Webfonts deployment on Indic Wikiprojects

[Vickram Crishna]

Pardon my intrusion on this thread, but within reason*, if any college or
other educational institution chooses to be 'proprietary only' (never mind
antediluvian - IE6? really? or is that an XP issue?) FOSSers are prepared
to take it up 'officially' with them, reminding them of the nation's
commitment to education without strings attached. This is fyi to listers,
and I shan't mention it again, but please do consider notifying your
friendly neighbourhood FOSSer with details of the person to contact
(principal/director etc) for assistance and action. This in turn will get
reflected to a FOSS forum (fosscomm is one such) and will hopefully result
in notifying the institution concerned as well as the possibility of a
local FOSS-based firm offering upgrade services.

*ie FOSS as a movement is in continuous need of resources as well, but
education is a major priority

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Also forgot to tell you. My college uses ONLY systems with Windows XP
> and Internet Explorer 6. Most students are from a Tamil background,
> and they read Tamil websites, Wikipedia very often.
>
> On 12/13/11, Srikanth Lakshmanan  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Pardon for a long mail, just unavoidable.
> >
> > We have seen the WebFonts roll out[0] last night to most Indic wikis
> except
> > Malayalam and Tamil. We in Tamil Community felt WebFonts extension is
> just
> > not ready for us. We would like to share on why we in Tamil community
> didnt
> > chose webfonts and also what could work better in future for Indic
> > communities during technology adoption.
> >
> > 1. *Unavailability of "Quality Free fonts"* :-
> > During the development, our request for not setting the default font as a
> > lower quality font was rejected citing "it will defeat the purpose of
> > extension".[1] The available fonts had issues and deploying the extension
> > with those low quality fonts to everyone would not only defeat the
> purpose
> > of extension, but also gives Tamil Wikipedia a bad image when people just
> > cant read the fonts even though they had better fonts in system. (Just
> like
> > how i18n team says people who see boxes will just simply close the
> window,
> > we say giving these poor fonts will also lead to same thing and not help
> > the cause, instead will also hurt those who have better fonts.).
> >
> > 2. *Quality of User Experience* :-
> > We are a smaller wiki, we have a smaller reader base, but still we are
> > ranked 7th most visited website in Tamil according to alexa[2]. Just like
> > how no-nonsense / no-mediocrity is tolerated in any code that enters WMF
> > cluster, any change which will affect the site's look and feel, user
> > experience will have to be of highest standards and must be accepted by
> > community. WebFonts were just not ready to enter Wikipedia, since it
> > changes the UX for all the readers to help a potentially lower number of
> > users who dont have Tamil fonts than the current existing reader base.
> >
> > *What we feel was wrong in WebFonts deployment*
> >
> > We have also been seeing the wikis where they have been rolled out and
> > reporting issues. We ourselves are reporting issues inspite of not taking
> > WebFonts, with the hope software just gets better and some day we can
> > deploy them. Dont get us wrong, we are not against technology, we just
> need
> > it in better form and are not in any urgency. (After all we at Ta wiki
> > initiated an RFC and asked Webfonts even before the announcement was
> made).
> > We would also like to mention some points which we feel i18n team could
> > have done better for a smoother launch.
> >
> > 1. *Font Testing* :-
> > The point of language support team is that the people who are aware of
> > language give feedback to make any software better supported for the
> > language. We are not sure if Font-Testing was ever done at all for those
> > languages where the WebFonts were deployed. The hinting issue which was a
> > concern and made us raise against deployment in Tamil is also present in
> > Hindi,Sanskrit,Telugu(atleast till we saw) and gave the same worst
> > readability. The i18n team did font assessment[3], testing only 1 word to
> > test the font. Can any font be tested with just rendering of 4
> characters /
> > 1 word? For Tamil,we did a test in little more comprehensive way(We would
> > not say its complete)[4]. This should have been a *must* to see
> rendering /
> > font issues with chosen default font especially since the fonts are being
> > set default to every single user to the site. Sadly community was
> involved
> > the least, a note was posted in Village pumps and we dont think community
> > involved itself in any testing and poor quality was eventually pushed
> > without proper testing.
> >
> > 2. *Real world testing* :-
> > Though cross browser testing was done, there was a severe lack of real
> > world testing and as a result we are seeing a host of issues being

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] OT FOSS assist WAS Re: Webfonts deployment on Indic Wikiprojects

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Vickram, your tone makes it look like everything is our fault.
> We cannot switch over to Firefox/Linux for one simple reason.
> Most students here are from a Rural background and won't be able to
> adjust to new stuff. They had a tough time adjusting from Windows 7 to
> XP when the rollback was done due to issues with Turbo C++ and
> Microsoft COBOL compiler.
>

There's no question of fault, and no need to take it that way. Every
journey needs that first step. However, your doubts have been addressed in
many different scenarios before, and really comes across more as FUD than
likely reality. You will probably be surprised. Having said which, it is
entirely possible that there are no FOSS service agencies in your area, who
could walk you (ie the college, details depending on how the upgrade is
mutually planned) through it. If you can describe where the college is,
perhaps the right persons can get in touch, and if this does not work out,
then you have the status quo in any case.

As a bonus, most machines that today run XP were designed a while back, and
it is very possible that the switch will come with tangible efficiency
benefits.


>
> --
>
> On 12/13/11, Amir E. Aharoni  wrote:
> > 2011/12/14 Vickram Crishna :
> >> Pardon my intrusion on this thread, but within reason*, if any college
> or
> >> other educational institution chooses to be 'proprietary only' (never
> mind
> >> antediluvian - IE6? really? or is that an XP issue?) FOSSers are
> prepared
> >> to
> >> take it up 'officially' with them, reminding them of the nation's
> >> commitment
> >> to education without strings attached. This is fyi to listers, and I
> >> shan't
> >> mention it again, but please do consider notifying your friendly
> >> neighbourhood FOSSer with details of the person to contact
> >> (principal/director etc) for assistance and action. This in turn will
> get
> >> reflected to a FOSS forum (fosscomm is one such) and will hopefully
> result
> >> in notifying the institution concerned as well as the possibility of a
> >> local
> >> FOSS-based firm offering upgrade services.
> >>
> >> *ie FOSS as a movement is in continuous need of resources as well, but
> >> education is a major priority
> >
> > It is a very valid point. Installing Firefox or at least updating to
> > IE8 on Windows XP costs nothing and has very tangible and
> > easy-to-demonstrate benefits for language support. Wiki Community
> > members should BE BOLD and tell libraries, schools and colleges that
> > they should do it.
> >
> > While you are at it, make sure that auto-updates are enabled and
> > consider installing a version of Firefox with menus translated to the
> > local language (see http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all.html ; if
> > you can't find it your language, see https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n .)
> >
> > --
> > Amir E. Aharoni
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th.
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
>
> ___
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>



-- 
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] OT FOSS assist WAS Re: Webfonts deployment on Indic Wikiprojects

[Vickram Crishna]

An interesting blog post that touches upon the same subject: and
serendipitously provides a very powerful reason for engineering colleges in
particular to be more aware of and to foster the environment of open
knowledge working.
http://manypossibilities.net/2011/12/everyday-internet-miracles/

I agree with Amir's point that simply switching browsers is a big step
forward for the college, as all users will sooner or later understand why
using Firefox is intrinsically superior, apart from trivial features
(glossware).

However, I also feel that in terms of maximising the potential of the
college-bought computers, users will probably experience a performance
upgrade, even more if unnecessary software and processes are tuned out,
more than continuing with XP.

Still, this is only an opinion, not a guarantee.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

> I didn't get the feeling that Vickram is saying that it's your fault.
>
> It's not possible and not desirable to force everybody to switch to a
> different browser. It is possible, however, to educate people about
> having a choice. That's what FOSS activism is about and that's how i
> understand Vickram's suggestion. Why is FOSS activism relevant in this
> discussion, you ask? Not just because the Wikimedia movement is very
> strongly related to FOSS, but because in this case FOSS technologies
> provide a tangible benefit - the ability to use Indic fonts. And FOSS
> relies on word-of-mouth promotion and activism rather than on
> marketing professionals.
>
> Moving from IE to Firefox is much easier than moving between operating
> systems or compilers. Millions of people wouldn't imagine moving from
> Windows to Linux, but can easily move to Firefox.
>
> Both Firefox and IE can be installed side-by-side and the presence of
> a different browser doesn't require any more maintenance. And if the
> people don't like Firefox despite its better font support, they can
> always move back to IE with zero effort.
>
> (In general, everything i say about Firefox applies to Google
> Chrome/Chromium, too - it's open source, modern and
> standards-compliant. However, for the particular issue of fonts
> Firefox is better - from my experience Chrome has more bugs in this
> field.)
>
>
> 2011/12/14 Srikanth Ramakrishnan :
> > Vickram, your tone makes it look like everything is our fault.
> > We cannot switch over to Firefox/Linux for one simple reason.
> > Most students here are from a Rural background and won't be able to
> > adjust to new stuff. They had a tough time adjusting from Windows 7 to
> > XP when the rollback was done due to issues with Turbo C++ and
> > Microsoft COBOL compiler.
> >
> > --
> >
> > On 12/13/11, Amir E. Aharoni  wrote:
> >> 2011/12/14 Vickram Crishna :
> >>> Pardon my intrusion on this thread, but within reason*, if any college
> or
> >>> other educational institution chooses to be 'proprietary only' (never
> mind
> >>> antediluvian - IE6? really? or is that an XP issue?) FOSSers are
> prepared
> >>> to
> >>> take it up 'officially' with them, reminding them of the nation's
> >>> commitment
> >>> to education without strings attached. This is fyi to listers, and I
> >>> shan't
> >>> mention it again, but please do consider notifying your friendly
> >>> neighbourhood FOSSer with details of the person to contact
> >>> (principal/director etc) for assistance and action. This in turn will
> get
> >>> reflected to a FOSS forum (fosscomm is one such) and will hopefully
> result
> >>> in notifying the institution concerned as well as the possibility of a
> >>> local
> >>> FOSS-based firm offering upgrade services.
> >>>
> >>> *ie FOSS as a movement is in continuous need of resources as well, but
> >>> education is a major priority
> >>
> >> It is a very valid point. Installing Firefox or at least updating to
> >> IE8 on Windows XP costs nothing and has very tangible and
> >> easy-to-demonstrate benefits for language support. Wiki Community
> >> members should BE BOLD and tell libraries, schools and colleges that
> >> they should do it.
> >>
> >> While you are at it, make sure that auto-updates are enabled and
> >> consider installing a version of Firefox with menus translated to the
> >> local language (see http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all.html ; if
> >> you can't find it your language, see https://wiki.mozilla.org

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Supporting Outreach

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar  wrote:

> Probably some bot mechanism will work better.
> People may not know the IP address from the venue before they start
> working.
>
> Just setup a page where such IPs can be put up and a bot checks them
> every 1-2 hours or so and enables IPs for 3-4 days. Authorisations for
> specific users who are co-ordinating the event can be given well in
> advance to add such IP entries.
>
> That will help reduce communication and delay due to time zone related
> things.
>

This will be the best approach. Pradeep and Pranav (Kundan and I were
present, among others) had faced exactly this problem at the first attempt
to run the WikiAcademy in Mumbai. For a newbie academy, it is at least an
hour or so before one gets around to talking about setting up new accounts.



> Regards
> -Sudhanwa
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Pradeep Mohandas
>  wrote:
> > hi Phillipe,
> >
> > How much lead time would you need to enable this? Given that India and
> > US are in opposite sides of the world - you guys maybe sleeping while
> > we request an unblock.
> > What venues can we request an unblock - en email to you? On wiki-tech
> IRC?
> >
> > Pradeep
> > Handheld
> >
> > On 21/12/2011, Nitika  wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> but I wanted to be sure you know that I can lift the cap of 7 account
> >>> creations per day, if you let me know what day you're doing something.
> :)
> >>>
> >>> That's an open offer to anyone doing outreach...
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hey Phillipe,
> >>
> >> I am now aware that there is a possibility of releasing an IP from this
> >> rule. But I learnt this the hard way! I sat through an outreach session
> >> where we encountered blocking of IP and the participants were very
> >> disappointed because they could not create their usernames. There is
> another
> >> mail from Subhashish which echoes similar experience.
> >>
> >> By way of working on this document and putting together small tips like
> >> these will make sure that others don't go through this pain. I'd
> encourage
> >> everyone to put their thoughts/learnings here so that all of us can
> benefit
> >> out of it and make our outreach sessions more effective.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Nitika
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pradeep Mohandas
> > How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
> >
> > ___
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>
>
>
> --
>
> ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!
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>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India: Wikipedia Takes Ahmedabad, January 2012

[Vickram Crishna]

And, just to nitpick:

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar
wrote:

> Hmmm
> I don't know why people are so touchy about FOSS.
> If I mention "photographer" or "security" or "Media" or "engineer" instead
> of "FOSS", will the reaction be same?
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can we stop dragging FOSS into every mail unless absolutely necessary?
>> just to clarify.
>> - Roads aren't designed with FOSS.
>>
>
Arguable. The sentence is too imprecise.


> - Camera firmware isn't FOSS.
>>
>
Yes, and cameras have not essentially changed in well over 100 years. They
went digital, but all that happened was the recording medium changed. With
the simple pinhole, it is perfectly possible to have software driven
lensless, infinitely variable depth of field and focus image recording.
Find me one commercial model camera that does this, and I can show you
dozens of advertising messages that equate good imaging with megapixels.


> - Our brain doesn't have FOSS.
>>
>
Can we stick to the point? I do not think anybody on this list is actively
aware of any programming techniques that work for the brain; the question
or proprietary or FOSS doesn't even arise. However, if you want to include
alpha wave conditioning (analogue programming) then surely you will not
want to also claim that yoga is proprietary?


> - Bus ticketing isn't FOSS.
>>
>
> A terrible shame. Bus companies (indeed, all mass transit organisations)
are largely stuck in the past, their inefficiency mandates that the purpose
of public mass transport is a #fail, either because the service providers
cannot earn money doing it, or because individual means of public
transportation do not 'talk' to each other, their communication channels
being trapped within proprietary silos, leaving the public floundering with
the need to carry small change and waste time buying multiple tickets to
get from A to B. And the few reasonably successfully integrated public mass
transit setups that exist anywhere in the world (eg, London) use
proprietary software that does not replicate or scale to other places.


> Well, Mediawiki and whole lot of other things used for Wikipedia related
> activities are FOSS.
> And in general, it is about contributing back to the society so that
> everybody gets benefitted.  That's what is common in both FOSS as well as
> Wikimedia.
>

+1


>
>
>> No offence intended.
>>
>
> +1
>
> -Sudhanwa
>
>
> ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!
> web: www.sudhanwa.com  blog: www.sudhanwa.in
> Twitter: sudhanwa Check on FB, Linkedin for more.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India: Wikipedia Takes Ahmedabad, January 2012

[Vickram Crishna]

Pradeep: given the enthusiasm with which we encourage Wikimedians to
proclaim and proselytise this facet of public service (ie, in fora other
than this or related ones) it is odd to find you saying that 'these
professionals' (as against, presumably, amateur FOSSers) do not talk about
their work unnecessarily. I did not think that Sudhanwa was doing this, my
own takeaway is that Kartik not only remits public service at Wikimedia,
but also as a FOSSer.

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Pradeep Mohandas <
pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi,
>
> Sudhanwa, Frankly, it is because these professionals do not bandy
> their professions/work around unnecessarily when not needed and not
> central to the conversation.
>
> Thanks Kartik, for the translation. I see you had some trouble getting
> pics of the station. This is strange since people take pics of CST,
> Mumbai without any restriction - even inside it. Strange, that!
>
> Pradeep
> User:Prad2609
>
> On 04/01/2012, Sudhanwa Jogalekar  wrote:
> > Hmmm
> > I don't know why people are so touchy about FOSS.
> > If I mention "photographer" or "security" or "Media" or "engineer"
> instead
> > of "FOSS", will the reaction be same?
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
> > parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Can we stop dragging FOSS into every mail unless absolutely necessary?
> >> just to clarify.
> >> - Roads aren't designed with FOSS.
> >> - Camera firmware isn't FOSS.
> >> - Our brain doesn't have FOSS.
> >> - Bus ticketing isn't FOSS.
> >>
> >
> > Well, Mediawiki and whole lot of other things used for Wikipedia related
> > activities are FOSS.
> > And in general, it is about contributing back to the society so that
> > everybody gets benefitted.  That's what is common in both FOSS as well as
> > Wikimedia.
> >
> >
> >> No offence intended.
> >>
> >
> > +1
> >
> > -Sudhanwa
> >
> >
> > ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!
> > web: www.sudhanwa.com  blog: www.sudhanwa.in
> > Twitter: sudhanwa Check on FB, Linkedin for more.
> >
>
>
> --
> Pradeep Mohandas
> How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] FOSS and Wikipedia

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Ashwin Baindur wrote:

> So I request that we may all simmer down a bit. If this continues then I
> would like to join them since I cant beat them. This I shall do by getting
> upset about the abhorrent word *baingan.
>
> *I dont like the taste of Brinjal and I promise to erupt in protest
> whenever the use of the term brinjal is used on this list, culinary or
> otherwise. BTW got to place an AFD on [[Brinjal]]. I am NOT joking. I'm
> serious, Brinjal must go!
>

+1


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Minutes of Wikipedia Mumbai Meetup 14

[Vickram Crishna]

Hi Pranav


On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 10:21 PM,  wrote:

>  Minutes of Wikipedia Mumbai Meetup 14:
>
> Coincidentally, 14 people attended the 14th Mumbai Meetup held at Coffee
> Bean and Tea Leaf, Bandra earlier today :)
>
> *Wikipedia Takes Mumbai 2*
>
> *...
> Wikimania 2013
>
> *Ansuman, Nikita, Karthik and Krutika were strongly in favour of making a
> bid for Wikimania 2013, Mumbai. Mehul said he would be able to help out
> with the internet but not much more. Pradeep, Vickram and myself were not
> so sure. After the WCI experience we felt that a lot more commitment and
> focus was required from the community since bidding for Wikimania is like
> bidding for the Olympics, if we botch up, we put the country to shame.
> Rohini pointed out that another city like (Delhi) or Bangalore could bid. I
> mentioned that I had brought the topic up with community members across the
> country and there was consensus that no city is ready to take on something
> the scale of a Wikimedia as we currently stand.
>
> Pradeep suggested that we should work at the grassroot levels instead,
> aiming at holding regular events locally for the next year, think of 2014
> realistically and involving more people - starting with the photowalk.
> Everyone agreed to this.
> *
> *
>

wrt the W2013 concept, unfortunately due to the higher ambient sound I
don't think everything discussed was captured. What I had said about it was
that it would be a good idea to put in a bid, having learned from you how
the bid for WCI was stewarded.

However, as a major constraint is the lack of committed volunteers with the
freedom to be able to adjust their time to do whatever was necessary, and
that this scenario has been witnessed in most places, it is important to
put in a bid, and then publish a calendar of physical events (such as the
first point, WTM 2). The action of these physical events will help ensure
that sufficient fellowship is created to generate the kind of volunteering
activity needed to make a bid like this meaningful. Of course the point you
have documented, that such things should be done in any case, is also a key
to building a more coherent and practical community.


> *
> *
>

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Petition Response: Digitizing Federal Public Records

[Vickram Crishna]

Who wants copyright free? We want the right to reproduce and distribute
freely, since we have already paid for it.

The amendments on the way are a mess, designed to reinforce the rights of
restrictive copyright holders. It is understandable, since the political
leadership of the nation (of all hues) conflates ownership with
monetisation, but hardly sensible.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar  wrote:

> I think amendments for the current copyeight act are coming soon. However,
> there is hardly any chance that Govt. work will be released copyright free.
>
> Regards
> -Sudhanwa
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Ashwin Baindur  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for this post, wheredevelsdare.
>>
>> Its high time someone in India put up a PIL to the Supreme court
>> challenging the relevant portions of CopyrightAct 1957 wherein government
>> work from public funds remains in copyright.
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> Ashwin Baindur
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Kevin Gorman  wrote:
>>
>>> As the petition response mentioned, the national archives do have a
>>> wikipedian in residence currently - dominic mcdevitt-parks (User:Dominic.)
>>>  David Ferriero has also attended at least one Wikimedia related event
>>> himself - he spoke at the public policy initiative wrapup in boston this
>>> summer.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Kevin Gorman
>>> User:kgorman-ucb
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:29 PM,  wrote:
>>>
  FYI - since we are looking to start GLAM in India, I thought this
 would make an interesting read. Answer to a petition for digitalising all
 Public Records in the US by a Wikimedian.

 --

 *From:* The White House 
 *Date:* January 20, 2012 6:27:44 PM EST
 *To:* filbe...@gmail.com
 *Subject:* *Petition Response: Digitizing Federal Public Records*
 *Reply-To:* The White House 

 [image: The White House]

 Digitizing Federal Public Records *By David Ferriero, the Archivist of
 the United States*
 Thank you for signing a petition asking the Obama Administration to
 digitize all public records.
 The Obama Administration believes increasing access to our collections
 by digitizing our records is a great idea. Our most recent efforts to do
 this ourselves as part of our 
 OpenGovinitiative,
  include the Citizen
 Archivistproject,
  a Wikipedian
 in 
 Residence,
 Tag it 
 Tuesdays,
 and 
 Scanathons.
 We are also moving forward on implementing the President’s recent 
 Memorandum
 on Managing Government 
 Records,
 which focuses on the need to update policies and practices f

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Supreme Court Says Congress May Re-Copyright Public Domain Works

[Vickram Crishna]

To be utterly frank, we cannot continue to think that we must follow the
example of the west. As Wikimedians in India, we have a particular point of
view about copyright, in this case of works created using public money.
Whether or not the USA decides to prevent similar works from being openly
available, kowtowing to the ceaseless lobbying of proprietary content
purveyors, is only incidental to our own attitude. Also note that this is a
Supreme Court decision, the same court that kept persons of a particular
colour in bondage for centuries. It cannot be said to be the democratic
view of the US people.

We must continue to make every effort to see our own country does not fall
into this trap, at a time when the possibility of widespread knowledge
dissemination in the country is just becoming truly feasible. To the extent
that this involves taking on the proprietary knowledge (an oxymoron if
there ever was one) lobby, so be it.

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 1:06 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

> This is not good. On one side we are thinking for lobbying for Government
> works to be moved to public domain in India.. on another side this is
> happening...
>
> -TC
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:57 PM,  wrote:
>
>>  FYI:
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#URAA_affirmed_by_US_Supreme_Court_-_deletion_request_opened
>>
>> --
>> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:50:36 +0530
>> From: jayanta...@gmail.com
>> To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Supreme Court Says Congress May Re-Copyright
>> Public Domain Works
>>
>>
>> hi all,
>>
>> May be re-post, Plz look the below link
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/01/scotus-re-copyright-decision/
>>
>> --
>> With Warm Regards,
>> *Jayanta Nath*
>> Calcutta,West Bengal
>>
>>
>>
>> __
>>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia Takes Mumbai 2012

[Vickram Crishna]

As discussed with Nikita and Dr Nagarjuna, the HBCSE has kindly offered the
use of the Gnowledge Labs at Deonar on Saturday 28 Jan afternoon (2pm
onwards; the request was for a couple of hours) for the conclusion of the
planned Photowalk, in order to complete uploading/tagging/captioning etc of
the pictures acquired to Wikimedia.

Organisers may please coordinate with Dr Nagarjuna directly (nagarjun;
gnowledge, org) to confirm how many persons etc will be attending. The lab
has computers (GNU/Linux only) and connectivity. He may not personally be
there on Saturday itself, so please make sure the details are confirmed in
advance. HBCSE is a security campus (part of TIFR) and visitors will need
to take passes at the gate and have them signed in acknowledgment by an
HBCSE staffer before leaving. You also need to make clear what digital
equipment will be carried into the campus (phones, cameras, laptops) and
declare it coming and going to the security staff at the gate.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Anshuman Fotedar <
anshuman.fote...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> As was discussed in the Mumbai Meetup #14 on the 15th of this month, we
> are organising WIkipedia Takes Mumbai 2012 on the 28th, which is the coming
> Saturday.
>
> Wiki page for the event: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WTMUM2
> Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikitakesmumbai
> Facebook event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/301044829930784/
>
> List of places we want to cover:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B_5CneXRV5n1BV4lOtbEGVy-PeTduATRYn-blNbU7n4/edit?pli=1
>
> We have 3 routes in mind:
> 1) Western: http://g.co/maps/8udzv
> 2) South A: http://g.co/maps/m4hx2
> 3) South B: http://g.co/maps/z9atv
>
> We would love to get suggestions on the places/routes and any advice that
> might help going forward.
>
> Also we'd be glad if more volunteers come forward for the same. We can
> definitely use more hands :)
>
> Currently myself, Nikita Belavate and Karthik Nadar are working on this,
> with the aid of mentoring from Pranav Curumsey, Moksh Juneja and Noopur
> Raval.
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Anshuman Fotedar
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wiki Takes Mumbai II !!!

[Vickram Crishna]

On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 2:55 PM, nikita belavate  wrote:

>
> Thanks to Vickram uncle and Dr.Nagarjuna :)
>

Hope some 'uncles' will be part of the Photowalk too!


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia Takes Mumbai 2012

[Vickram Crishna]

Failure to make the system work efficiently is also a learning exercise.
Given that we are hoping to make such events happen more frequently and at
many historically important places across the country, we must work to see
that wikimedians are enabled to upload images meaningfully, ie with proper
descriptions, as smoothly as possible. It is unlikely that everyone will
have access to decent facilities for mass uploading the next time.

Ideally, the availability of offline tools for collating and annotating
images is needed, so that the tagged pictures can be kept ready in a folder
for uploading. Then it won't matter if only a single PC can be used for the
actual uploading, as different wikimedians can collate thier pictures
individually, and transfer the folder files severally to the designated
uploader PC for completion. This is important for such group activities,
which may not have been a need when the original upload tool was designed
and the rules for uploading set (which were probably designed to control
spam and other anti-social uploaders, also an important need). This is
analogous to the problems found while running newbie wikiacademies earlier.

I suggest one or two of the Photowalk people, who worked at understanding
and solving the problem found yesterday, interact with more geek
wikimedians who can identify and describe this need as a bug for the
community to solve, or to solve it directly.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:27 AM, nikita belavate wrote:

> Upload on only one single PC was possible at a time.  We tried reaching
> IRC center, but there was no one online at the IRC center for support.Due
> to time constraints, we skipped adding descriptions that could be uploaded
> successfully on their second try. On the first through,Commonist tool, the
> meta-data was not saved with the images and was erased with an 'unknown
> error'. So, there are many pictures yet to be uploaded and I will ask the
> participants to upload them with descriptions.
>
> Regards,
> Nikita.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:14 AM, nikita belavate wrote:
>
>> Hii,
>> Its not any problem with the tool.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Shrinivasan T 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> did you use gthumb to add title and description?
>>> On Jan 29, 2012 10:07 AM,  wrote:
>>>
  Thanks for this GN/Srinivasan.

 Point to note - none of the files uploaded using this script have a
 description.

 --
 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:57:14 +0530
 From: tshriniva...@gmail.com
 To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia Takes Mumbai 2012

 happy to know that it is useful.
 the install and readme files explain solving these issues.
 edit the file to change the default category too.
 please share if you need any enhancements.
 thanks.
 On Jan 28, 2012 8:41 PM, "Nagarjuna G"  wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Shrinivasan T >>> > wrote:

 open the Python file and fill the login details and url for commons.
 copy the script to the folder where you have the images.
 run the following command.
 python mediawiki-uploader.py
 mail me if you have any issues.



 We tried this script for some folders.  the feedback is as follows:

 while running the script, it cribbed about missing module poster.  I
 have installed it using pip. then another missing dependency was
 python-pyexiv2.  apt-get install python-pyexiv2 took care of this.
 after that the script ran successfully.

 --
 GN


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia Takes Mumbai 2012

[Vickram Crishna]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Noopur  wrote:

> IMHO, the point of the photo walk is not just to get pictures but, also to
> ask people to log on to Commons and check it out by themselves so that they
> continue uploading pictures etc.
> This thread seems so complex that a participant must have felt crippled
> and left thinking that Wikipedia (and Commons) is all so complicated and
> geeky, it's not my cup of tea.
>

The nuts and bolts will always be geeky (although only some highly specific
mails actually had any geeky content in them). The point of all the geeky
stuff is to make life simple for persons who do not need to know anything
geeky at all.

For the next time, a tiny suggestion: Please resort to simpler techniques
> of communication and although that may not result in mass uploads *on the
> spot*, give out manuals or DIY cheat sheets so that people can go back home
> and look at them again.
>

Actually, 'on the spot' was deliberately chosen following earlier walks,
where it was noticed that not everyone who participated actually uploaded
the content later, or partially uploaded with no captions or details. This
makes extra work for other people later.

Maybe you guys can also keep in touch with these people who came, drop in a
> word and ask them if they need help. Some of them may return to your next
> meetup and that is how community expands.
>

Noted. I think the purpose of such community efforts is to create more
awareness about Wikimedia, that it has such interesting and user-focused
details available, and that it is participatory: even when things do not
work as hoped, it is we who solve such issues, not they. That is a huge
message for people everywhere, one that does not need to be stated because
it is being experienced.

Having said which, the 'we' who solve the issues work within a commonly
agreed framework, to avoid chaos and wandering down blind alleys. This list
is not part of that framework, it is the place (within this context) where
non-geeky people share their geeky needs.


>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Vickram Crishna <
> vvcris...@radiophony.com> wrote:
>
>> Failure to make the system work efficiently is also a learning exercise.
>> Given that we are hoping to make such events happen more frequently and at
>> many historically important places across the country, we must work to see
>> that wikimedians are enabled to upload images meaningfully, ie with proper
>> descriptions, as smoothly as possible. It is unlikely that everyone will
>> have access to decent facilities for mass uploading the next time.
>>
>> Ideally, the availability of offline tools for collating and annotating
>> images is needed, so that the tagged pictures can be kept ready in a folder
>> for uploading. Then it won't matter if only a single PC can be used for the
>> actual uploading, as different wikimedians can collate thier pictures
>> individually, and transfer the folder files severally to the designated
>> uploader PC for completion. This is important for such group activities,
>> which may not have been a need when the original upload tool was designed
>> and the rules for uploading set (which were probably designed to control
>> spam and other anti-social uploaders, also an important need). This is
>> analogous to the problems found while running newbie wikiacademies earlier.
>>
>> I suggest one or two of the Photowalk people, who worked at understanding
>> and solving the problem found yesterday, interact with more geek
>> wikimedians who can identify and describe this need as a bug for the
>> community to solve, or to solve it directly.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:27 AM, nikita belavate wrote:
>>
>>> Upload on only one single PC was possible at a time.  We tried reaching
>>> IRC center, but there was no one online at the IRC center for support.Due
>>> to time constraints, we skipped adding descriptions that could be uploaded
>>> successfully on their second try. On the first through,Commonist tool, the
>>> meta-data was not saved with the images and was erased with an 'unknown
>>> error'. So, there are many pictures yet to be uploaded and I will ask the
>>> participants to upload them with descriptions.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nikita.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:14 AM, nikita belavate wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hii,
>>>> Its not any problem with the tool.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Shrinivasan T >>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> did you use gthumb to add title and description?
>>>>> On Jan 29, 2012 1

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia Takes Mumbai 2012

[Vickram Crishna]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Noopur  wrote:

> Actually, 'on the spot' was deliberately chosen following earlier walks,
> where it was noticed that not everyone who participated actually uploaded
> the content later, or partially uploaded with no captions or details. This
> makes extra work for other people later.
>
> Maybe this is an assumption? We thought the same but took our chances with
> manuals and people went back home and actually uploaded over 800 pictures.
>

I wouldn't know. I am not such an enthusiastic photographer, nor was I
directly involved in the Photowalk, just assisting from the sidelines. I
extrapolated from earlier discussions that probably took place here, or on
the Mumbai list (or both), or at our Meetup.

>
> Regarding the geeky tools- making life simple, again, the moment you push
> photographers/non Linux users into a Linux lab and talk Python and metadata
> problems, one is bound to get slightly intimidated. On the back end of
> course, you can build the geekiest tool and talk about it, but on the front
> end, it should have been a 'clear solution'. People who struggled with
> uploads and metadata will surely not go back home and try it again. That
> was my point.
>
> Metadata is just a big word for the text and other attributes attached to
a photograph (in this context). A photograph without credentials is a bad
idea for a resource, and this was pointed out on the list earlier. If the
data is not added by the user herself, it becomes a chore for someone else
to research and correctly annotate it. The fact that a digital photograph
can have such attributes integrated is a boon, big words notwithstanding.
This attributes feature also works for music and videos btw, in fact it
works for all standard media, and if anyone comes up with a new media form,
a similar standard will be set.

The talk about Python was a side-discussion about getting the tool working
in time for the crowd to arrive: would it have made anyone feel better if
it was called Photoshop or Picture Manager or something? Why would that be?
Not a rhetorical question, merely one of checking assumptions.

The tool is for mass upload, the issue was enabling multiple people to
upload from a single location. The issue there is protective tools built
into wikimedia that control such things, in order to prevent malware people
from uploading rubbish, running denial of service attacks and the like.
Everyone who becomes a wikimedian should understand that, and organisers of
wikievents of this nature must learn in advance how to get around this.
India is one of the world's biggest sources of such malware (malware
superpower), so it is very understandable that people concerned about
Wikimedia's credibility and reputation will view such activities from India
as a threat. We need to evolve a protocol whereby lead wikimedians at any
event notify this intent so that the gates are temporarily opened and the
event can take place to everyone's convenience.

When this is not done, the experience is not so great, but as I suggested,
there are workarounds that will still keep everyone engaged and
enthusiastic at the upload venue (which could be a cybercafe stuffed with
Windows machines; wikimedia tools try to be as agnostic and inclusive as
possible) and the need for such things can only come out of discussion -
f2f as well, if the Walkers have a mix of newbie and experienced
wikimedians, but the potential to be much richer and more informative if
more people can participate, like on this mailing list.

The geeky part, the actual design and development of an offline component
of the tool (that was only my suggestion: it is possible there may be some
more effective way of handling it as well), will be handled by wikimedians
who like doing such things, but without this discussion to highlight the
need, why would they? And what would they design, if there was no
discussion about what it should do?

The alternative is everyone goes home, uploads individually, and loses out
on any chance for discussing and evolving best practices about that aspect,
the addition of captions and metadata.

Both options have their merits and demerits, for it is not even necessary
that every photosession be a PhotoWalk.

>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Vickram Crishna <
> vvcris...@radiophony.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Noopur  wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO, the point of the photo walk is not just to get pictures but, also
>>> to ask people to log on to Commons and check it out by themselves so that
>>> they continue uploading pictures etc.
>>> This thread seems so complex that a participant must have felt crippled
>>> and left thinking that Wikipedia (and Commons) is all so complicated and
>>> geeky, it's not my cup of tea.
>>>
>&

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Wikimedia-in-mum] Report on Wikipedia Takes Mumbai II

[Vickram Crishna]

To address Harriet's query, any building where sufficiently rich people
live or work may be considered a place where officious security will try
and discourage photography. Legality of interference is only a time-waster,
as the security personnel will be very unlikely to be aware of applicable
law, and in any case are only following orders.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Ashwin Baindur wrote:

> How wonderful, I do wish I was there. You guys have done a great job. My
> personal congrats to each of the participants.
>
> Do we have a master list for articles about Mumbai? Does one need to be
> made?
>
> Well begun is half done. Please remember that with all this raw material
> (images), you now have to make cakes & pastries (i.e. better-illustrated
> articles & newly-made stubs).
>
> So the process of cooking must now start.
>
> Just to remind every-one once again, :)
>
> We need to :
>
> * categorise the images.
> * add the images to articles, where possible.
> * create stubs where necessary and add images to them.
>
> Congratulations once again Mumbai community, but don't halt just yet,
> complete the cycle & see Mumbai represented much better in Wikipedia.
>
> Bumping this to the Wikiproject India mailing list also.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> --
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Anshuman Fotedar 
> Date: Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 9:54 PM
> Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Report on Wikipedia Takes Mumbai II
> To: Wikimedia India Community list ,
> "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Mumbai , India." <
> wikimedia-in-...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
>
> Greetings!  This is a short note on Wikipedia Takes Mumbai II.  Forty
> people turned up near the Oval Maidan at Churchgate at 8 am yesterday. The
> landmarks that were photographed included the Babulnath Temple, Nehru
> Science Centre, Opera House, St Thomas Cathedral, INS Vikrant and Yazdani
> Bakery. After the photos had been clicked many of the participants
> proceeded to Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education, TIFR where they were
> shown how to upload to Commons using both the usual upload process and by
> using the mediawiki-uploader mass upload script.
>
> Nikita Belavate and Karthik Nadar put in a lot of work into the event.
> They helped many people contribute to the Commons while having a good time,
> and they deserve praise for making all of this happen.
>
> Our heartfelt gratitude to Pranav Curumsey, Vickram Crishna, Dr
> Nagarjuna, Noopur Raval and Moksh Juneja for all the help and mentoring.
> Thanks to Shrinivasan T for mediawiki-uploader :) And apologies if I missed
> anyone out.
>
> Do visit our maintenance category 
> WTM<http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:WTM>,
> specially created for the event. 313 pictures have been uploaded so far.
>
> Sincerely
> Anshuman Fotedar
>
> PS:
>
> 1.
> During the photowalk, some of the participants who were taking pictures of
> Bombay House were interrupted by private security personnel and asked to
> handover their cameras so that the pictures could be removed. Pranav
> and Aditya Sengupta, who were among them, peacefully put forth the fact
> that they were not not breaking any laws by photographing the structure
> from the outside since it was not a legally protected one. They were
> standing on the road, and not trespassing. To resolve the matter, Aditya,
> Pranav and Krutikaa Jawanjal accompanied the security personnel to the
> police station where they explained that they were within their rights to
> do what they did, and that citizens of the country need not take prior
> permission to take exterior photographs of private property that was not
> accorded legal protection. The PSI on duty made a noting in his station
> diary and informed us that Bombay House has security fears, which is why
> one should speak to their bosses before taking pictures, but agreed with
> them per se that there is no law that prohibits people from taking pictures
> there.
>
> 2.
> The group that went to Bombay House (and subsequently to Yazdani Bakery,
> St. Thomas Cathedral) and other places  was delayed owing to the incident
> at Bombay House and discovered serendipitously that entry to INS Vikrant
> was open. Covering Vikrant took a while, adding to the delay. Consequently
> they (this includes me) never reached HBCSE but uploaded from home
> instead. Although we did get several good contributions from the
> participants in this group as well, I do recognise that it may have been
> nice if we could have joined in with the participants who uploaded together
> at HBCSE. I apologise.
>
>

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Report on Wikipedia Takes Mumbai II

[Vickram Crishna]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Achal Prabhala wrote:

>
>
> On Monday 30 January 2012 03:28 AM, Theo10011 wrote:
>
> Looks great Anshuman!
>
>  My best wishes to you and the Mumbai community!
>
>  I wish we could figure out an easier way to upload, possibly direct
> mobile uploads to common for events like this. I know it would be a
> gold-mine for participation when it comes to events like this.
>
>
>
> For anyone who'd like to send images to commons directly from your android
> camera phone, there is an app that does exactly this - I've used it to send
> images directly from my phone to commons; it's simple, easy-to-use and
> extremely useful:
> https://market.android.com/details?id=nl.michiel1972.main
>

Achal, this is great! It will help such events enormously, as many of the
users will be able to perform 'instant uploads' - Photowalks can be
organised with regular breaks to allow successive images to be populated
with metadata.

>
>
> (Other than this android app, there appears to be an IPhone app under
> development: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WikiSnaps)
>
>
>
>
>  Regards
> Theo
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Anshuman Fotedar <
> anshuman.fote...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Greetings!  This is a short note on Wikipedia Takes Mumbai II.  Forty
>> people turned up near the Oval Maidan at Churchgate at 8 am yesterday. The
>> landmarks that were photographed included the Babulnath Temple, Nehru
>> Science Centre, Opera House, St Thomas Cathedral, INS Vikrant and Yazdani
>> Bakery. After the photos had been clicked many of the participants
>> proceeded to Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education, TIFR where they were
>> shown how to upload to Commons using both the usual upload process and by
>> using the mediawiki-uploader mass upload script.
>>
>> Nikita Belavate and Karthik Nadar put in a lot of work into the event.
>> They helped many people contribute to the Commons while having a good time,
>> and they deserve praise for making all of this happen.
>>
>> Our heartfelt gratitude to Pranav Curumsey, Vickram Crishna, Dr
>> Nagarjuna, Noopur Raval and Moksh Juneja for all the help and mentoring.
>> Thanks to Shrinivasan T for mediawiki-uploader :) And apologies if I missed
>> anyone out.
>>
>> Do visit our maintenance category 
>> WTM<http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:WTM>,
>> specially created for the event. 313 pictures have been uploaded so far.
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Anshuman Fotedar
>>
>> PS:
>>
>> 1.
>> During the photowalk, some of the participants who were taking pictures
>> of Bombay House were interrupted by private security personnel and asked to
>> handover their cameras so that the pictures could be removed. Pranav
>> and Aditya Sengupta, who were among them, peacefully put forth the fact
>> that they were not not breaking any laws by photographing the structure
>> from the outside since it was not a legally protected one. They were
>> standing on the road, and not trespassing. To resolve the matter, Aditya,
>> Pranav and Krutikaa Jawanjal accompanied the security personnel to the
>> police station where they explained that they were within their rights to
>> do what they did, and that citizens of the country need not take prior
>> permission to take exterior photographs of private property that was not
>> accorded legal protection. The PSI on duty made a noting in his station
>> diary and informed us that Bombay House has security fears, which is why
>> one should speak to their bosses before taking pictures, but agreed with
>> them per se that there is no law that prohibits people from taking pictures
>> there.
>>
>>  2.
>> The group that went to Bombay House (and subsequently to Yazdani Bakery,
>> St. Thomas Cathedral) and other places  was delayed owing to the incident
>> at Bombay House and discovered serendipitously that entry to INS Vikrant
>> was open. Covering Vikrant took a while, adding to the delay. Consequently
>> they (this includes me) never reached HBCSE but uploaded from home
>> instead. Although we did get several good contributions from the
>> participants in this group as well, I do recognise that it may have been
>> nice if we could have joined in with the participants who uploaded together
>> at HBCSE. I apologise.
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Letters of authority or press cards (was: Backup for Wikipedians)

[Vickram Crishna]

I think this is a great suggestion. I know that amateur and even
professional photographers (non-Press persons) face endless nuisance simply
due the lack of an official looking card.

Do we actually have an 'office'? If so, its address on the card would help.
Only thing is since probably the 'number' might be a volunteer, we should
try not to have such persons bothered by nuisance calls. Perhaps we can
take a SIM for the purpose and attach it to an answering service
(computer-based).

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Fae  wrote:

> Could I make a practical suggestion to help those that might be
> challenged in public places or when going into institutions?
>
> In the UK we are looking at making "official" press cards for
> established Wikinews reporters. I know from experience that taking
> photographs in India can be problematic for many reasons, not just the
> police. If the local chapter could produce letters of authority or
> "press ID" for regular contributors, this might make our contributers
> feel a bit more confident about having something to produce when
> questioned about what they are doing.
>
> The "press ID" in the UK would work by the person having their
> identity on file with the London office. If there are questions about
> their work (for example photographs being taken or interviews) then
> the person's real life ID can be checked by phoning the chapter
> office. This does not have to compromize their on-line identity if
> anonymous, as real-life identity is kept confidential by the chapter.
> In most cases we would expect that having an "official" looking card
> or letter would solve most problems on the spot, particularly when the
> Wikimedian can say "please phone my office if you want to confirm my
> details".
>
> You can find a discussion about the press ID system for the UK at
> . WMUK
> would be open to supporting an internationally recognized system along
> these lines.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> http://enwp.org/user_talk:fae
> Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags
>
> ___
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> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>



-- 
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Letters of authority or press cards (was: Backup for Wikipedians)

[Vickram Crishna]

Further to Theo's suggestion (inline below)

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Theo10011  wrote:

> Great suggestion Fae.
>
> As Srikanth correctly pointed it out, such an ID would be under the
> content scope, which neither the chapter or the WMF India operations have
> any jurisdiction over.
>
> I remember a couple of years ago, Wikinews tried this for their active
> editors, offering to print them 'official reporter' IDs. It was an idea at
> the time, and I'm not sure if they actually implemented it or not.
>
> For photographers, this would be the commons community. This shouldn't be
> too hard, I suggest someone mentioning the political situation and
> suggesting this for commons photographers in the VP. The great thing is
> since, it would be the community who would award it, there is little or no
> direct liability to an official body. There should however be a
> contribution record or an endorsement from someone to print these out.
>
> One thing the chapter can do however, is offer a special
> member/photographers ID to the existing members. This could be at a
> surcharge so they don't undertake any expense- they can print out plastic
> IDs with photos, and membership detail of the existing members. This ID
> might be able to suffice for the purpose.
>
>
I don't think that the card should necessarily be printed at a centralised
location. In fact, I don't even think this is desirable (from security and
logistics viewpoints). It should be fairly simple to 'approve' a request
for accreditation (framework discussed already), then lead to a web-based
one-time card generator that the user can print and laminate herself. In
case of problems printing, the user should have a fallback option to report
the failure, in order to enable a second attempt for the card to be
printed.



> Regards
> Theo
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:15 PM, CherianTinu Abraham  > wrote:
>
>> The chapter can officially decide it only after a discussion within Board
>> , SIG leadership and the members.
>>
>> But on a personal level, I agree with Anirudh's view on this.
>> Since it brings strong accountability for the chapter on the use of the
>> ID by the recipients , this has to be done with caution and utmost care.
>> May be we can set up an empowered committee to review such requests and
>> grant them.  ( just a suggestion)
>> Nevertheless, IMHO, such id cards should be issued to "only trusted
>> Wikimedians" with a substantial amount of history with our projects and
>> mission.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tinu Cherian
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Ashwin Baindur 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We do need a Chapter EC Board member to respond to this.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>>
>>> Ashwin Baindur
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Anirudh Bhati 
>>> wrote:
>>> > The question whether the Chapter will help someone if they get into
>>> some
>>> > sort of trouble with the authorities is an important one and should be
>>> > addressed.  Once a letter of authority is issued to a volunteer, the
>>> > chapter's reputation and credibility is on the line.  Therefore, the
>>> chapter
>>> > must endeavor to only approve those members who have a substantial
>>> amount of
>>> > history with our projects and their mission.
>>> >
>>> > In such a scenario, I would expect the chapter to extend help to those
>>> it
>>> > endorses.
>>> >
>>> > anirudh
>>> > (personal opinion)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Anirudh Bhati 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan <
>>> srik@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 18:24,  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Will the chapter or India Programs provide assistance?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> IIRC both of them lie outside the "content" boundary and wouldn't be
>>> >>> helping. I dont recollect reading anything like "protecting
>>> interests of
>>> >>> wikipedians" on the chapter's mission / vision. Form a political
>>> party
>>> >>> (since asking the current ones might not help!) and fight for it,
>>> else sit
>>> >>> at home and edit non controversial stuff like "Brinjal" :P
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Supporting Wikimedia volunteers in their mission to expand the scope
>>> and
>>> >> variety of content on Wikimedia projects is an important part of our
>>> stated
>>> >> goals.  I think this is a very good idea, and a little help to the
>>> >> volunteers from the chapter would go a long way in giving their work
>>> some
>>> >> credibility in the eyes of authorities, private and public both.
>>> >>
>>> >> anirudh
>>> >> (personal opnion)
>>> >>
>>> >>> ___
>>> >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>>> >>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> >>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>>> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > __

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Pure Fiction: Nichalp and Wifione

[Vickram Crishna]

What is rather odd is that the 'story' is written as a defense of
Nichalp/Wifione/Wikifone. Possibly some people may have known him
personally and therefore the tone of the article.

I find the statement "They don't realize that, in the long run,  editors
cannot be expected to devote their time to the project for free.[3] ".
Realise? What does that mean? Nobody is forcing anyone to devote any time
at all to Wikipedia. What Wikipedia represents is an opportunity (among
other, better, things) for people to commit fraudulent acts, but that may
be said of almost anything material or even spiritual. If anyone doesn't
like it, they are free to relax and do something else that they find more
spiritually or materially relevant. And it is not 'they' who don't realise
(or do, we the silly naive people), it is 'us'.

As for the client, the less said the better. It remains to be seen why the
government regulators fail year after year to do anything about this sad
situation. So far, the scams do not amount to hundreds of thousands of
crores, which at least attracts CAG attention, although the impact on
India's societal health may end up being far deeper. Have they ever sued
the government or threatened to sue? Have they sued individual government
officers? - that is certainly pretty hard to do, much much harder than to
sue individual volunteer Wikimedians.

People following education issues will have noticed that minority education
institutions have soundly protested the provisions of the new Right To
Education Act. I feel such actions are partly a response the the pressure
that will now be put on privately funded teaching mills. It is a very
complex situation, but the nexus between politicians and degree
shops/moneymaking rackets is a doleful commentary on India's evolving
political landscape.

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 1:38 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

> Unbelievable but Shocking !
>
> I am not sure if Wikifone is same as Nichalp, but a look at the edit
> history of Wikifone, the editor has some serious interest to protect the
> interests of IIPM and its stakeholders.
>
> He seems to even change policy pages to suit his cause
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ANo_original_research&action=historysubmit&diff=475525747&oldid=475410422
>
> Wifione seems to be working on IIM and Amity ( Competitors to IIPM)
> articles as well, possibly trying to show them in bad light.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amity_University&action=historysubmit&diff=475405890&oldid=474606800
>
> Nevertheless , this has be investigated  or possibly reported to Arb Com.
>
> -TC
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Pradeep Mohandas <
> pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> I do not understand why this accusation is written as a work of fiction.
>>
>> Whatever the problems faced by an individual, it does not provide
>> grounds for crimes like theft. If the person does resort to these
>> methods, has to face the consequences, if found out. I am sure we
>> appreciated User:Nichalp's contributions when they were made. However,
>> when he/she has made mistakes and makes them multiple times, I think
>> this also warrants serious investigation.
>>
>> Pradeep
>> Handheld
>>
>> On 07/02/2012, guptc...@ovi.com  wrote:
>> >
>> > This is the story of Nichalp[1], an Indian student from Mumbai who
>> became
>> > obsessed with editing Wikipedia at a young age. He transformed several
>> > articles into featured articles, and became a role model for many
>> editors.
>> > He was granted the bureaucrat, oversight and administrator privileges -
>> > nobody deserved these rights more than him, not even Jimbo.
>> >
>> > A major change in Nichalp's life came when he came to Australia for
>> higher
>> > education. Facing a severe financial crunch, Nichalp decided to use the
>> only
>> > extraordinary skill he had - editing Wikipedia - for making money. He
>> put up
>> > ads on several freelancer recruiting websites, promising to write
>> articles
>> > in oexchange for small amounts of money.[2] These were the days when
>> the PR
>> > professionals had started realizing the importance of Wikipedia. There
>> were
>> > many takers for Nichalp's services. With his "sockpuppet" accounts,
>> Nichalp
>> > made a number of contributions (many of which stand deleted now).
>> >
>> > Unfortunately for Nichalp, the Wikizealots live in an idealistic world.
>> They
>> > don't realize that, in the long run,  editors cannot be expected to
>> devote
>> > their time to the project for free.[3] When the Wikihounds came to know
>> > about one of Nichalp's paid editing accounts they came after him.
>> Nichalp
>> > knew he would be stalked in real life, so he made his main account
>> inactive.
>> > Meanwhile, he continued to be active through his other paid editing
>> > accounts. A man of foresight, Nichalp started another account in April
>> 2009
>> > to gain back his admin rights.[4]
>> >
>> > The Wikihounds have an astonishing ability to trac

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Backup for Wikipedians

[Vickram Crishna]

+1

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Aditya Sengupta wrote:

>
> Ignore any or all of the above advice if you are being physically harmed.
> Focus on personal safety first.
>
>
>
-- 
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Pure Fiction: Nichalp and Wifione

[Vickram Crishna]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Ashwin Baindur wrote:

> I was told by someone that Wikipeding was a
> voluntary activity so high standards should not be expected in
> competence. If that is true, then we should not suddenly start
> witch-hunting on the basis of principle when we are ourselves so
> casual about other qualities in other ways!


Witch-hunting, under any circumstances, is a disgraceful business. It is
nothing but hypocrisy by another name.

However, I find it hard to agree with equating volunteering to low
standards. Standards is something that means the most when it applies to
oneself. That does not mean that everyone must agree with what one
considers a standard, but it does not hurt to look around for an accepted
standard or standards for any activity, and seeking to synergise or
synthesize them when they are in dissonance. .

The problem with paid pages is that people or entities making such payments
tend to impose lower standards upon others, just as happens in many other
spheres of human activity. It does not happen every time, but it does
happen all too often. In fact, where pages are concerned, it is far too
likely to be the very purpose of the payment. And compromised pages is
compromising knowledge, because the credibility of Wikipedia is (afaik) on
the way up. We may feel sympathy for the person who was forced into doing
this, but that does not mean we should sit on our hands and let it carry
on.

However, as has already been pointed out, the client in this case is an
extremely dangerous entity, and moreso for volunteer individuals in India.
Clearly we need to call for help.

I don't know how best to do that, but it seems to me that offlist channels
are one way to go.

-- 
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Fool On The Hill 
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Backup for Wikipedians

[Vickram Crishna]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Deepon Saha  wrote:

> Good Idea Srikanth..
>
> Deepon
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It isn't easy to stand ground when you are outnumbered.
>> It also isn't god when the cop reels out a law which you've never heard
>> of.
>> I said, I'd look up the law over the Internet on my phone.
>> Saying so, perhaps, we could all create a page with all local laws on
>> such matters and put it up on either Meta or Wikimedia.in ???
>> For instant reference?
>>
>
Also, in general, it is not a good idea to go around taking pictures or
gathering information in potentially sensitive places alone. This applies
to anywhere in the world, not just India.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Backup for Wikipedians

[Vickram Crishna]

Top posting: yes, *sensitive* spots, not spots of possible connection with
*national security*. The police take an active interest wherever money can
be sniffed, not only where the government may or may not have an interest.
In the former kind of places, one can very often discern an extra-legal
aura of security, such as the disgraceful scene some months back when a
motorist traveling south (Mumbaikars will know what I mean) on Peddar Road
was harassed for taking a picture or two of Antillia from across the road.
Picture taking there is totally and completely a legal act, of course, but
harassment by police is not always worth going to court about. In that
case, the media took an interest, which can be better than going to court
sometimes. The trouble is that Wikipedians cannot always expect to be able
to raise a media fuss, or to expect sympathy or empathy expressed in the
media. But I must say that the media is taking a lot more of a positive and
encouraging view of Wikimedian activities nowadays (a kudos to
you-know-who).

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ravishankar  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ashwin Baindur 
> wrote:
>
>> The Doll's Museum in New Delhi used to prohibit photography!
>>
>
> There are lot of places including museums and temples globally which
> prohibit photography or require special permissions. The issue is
> prohibiting when there is no clear prior notice.
>
> ravi
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: [datameet] National Data Sharing and Accessibility Policy 2012 Approved

[Vickram Crishna]

It would be absolutely fantastic if we can organise ongoing training and
sensitisation sessions for government departments in order to assist them
to streamline timely uploading of public information.

These may also be conducted at universities where scientific research is
published, for the publishing departments.

They don't have to be wiki sessions per se, although as we know wiki is a
very useful tool. But a lot of departments today (including NIC, I fear)
seem to think that uploading .doc and scanned paper documents (even the
Gazeete of India) is the same thing as publishing online. The statement
released by Pranesh specifically states that the documents published online
have to be machine readable.

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Pradeep Mohandas <
pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi,
>
> I believe that this is relevant here since we have been trying to
> access government data to improve Wikipedia articles.
>
> Pradeep
> Handheld
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Pranesh Prakash 
> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:22:22 +0530
> Subject: [datameet] National Data Sharing and Accessibility Policy 2012
> Approved
> To: Datameet 
>
> http://goo.gl/jb9Xc
>
> Cabinet
> February, 2012 12:22 IST
>
> National Data Sharing and Accessibility Policy – 2012 approved
>
> The Union Cabinet today approved the National Data Sharing and
> Accessibility Policy – 2012 (NDSAP-2012). The objective of the policy is
> to facilitate access to Government of India owned shareable data and
> information in both human readable and machine readable forms through a
> network all over the country in a proactive and periodically updatable
> manner, within the framework of various related policies, Acts and Rules
> of the Government, therefore, permitting a wider accessibility and use
> of public data and information.
>
> The NDSAP policy is designed to promote data sharing and enable access
> to Government of India owned data for national planning and development.
>
> The National Data Sharing and Accessibility Policy will apply to all
> data and information created, generated, collected and achieved using
> public funds provided by Government of India directly or through
> authorised agencies by various Ministries / Departments/ Organisations/
> Agencies and Autonomous bodies.
>
> ***
>
> SH/LM
> (Release ID :80196)
>
> --
> Pranesh Prakash
> Programme Manager
> Centre for Internet and Society
> W: http://cis-india.org | T: +91 80 40926283
>
>
>
>
> --
> Pradeep Mohandas
> How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-IN-PUN] [Wikimedia-in-en] GLAM-India: Wikipedia and NHHM collaboration

[Vickram Crishna]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:48 AM, Anirudh Bhati  wrote:

> FYI.
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Ashwin Baindur 
> Date: Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-IN-PUN] [Wikimedia-in-en] GLAM-India: Wikipedia
> and NHHM collaboration
> To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians in Pune, India" <
> wikimedia-in-...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
>
> This is such a major development and wonderful news indeed, Noopur. I
> am also happy that the GLAM event comes from a "soft" field of arts
> and culture which has not quite got the attention it deserves.
>
> In the 25 articles, I would off the cuff recommend that about :
> * at least 5 should be high level topics, such as textiles of India,
> pottery of India etc
> * two articles on the Ministry of Culture and the museum itself
> * half the remainder on regional themes or techniques such as
> "Bidriwork", or "carpet-making in Kashmir".
> * rest about specific objects in their collection
>
> In addition, I would recommend outcomes not just in Wikipedia but also
> in the field of Wikimedia Commons & Wikisource. If some language
> wikipedias come forth to cooperate, you may like to offer the key
> article about the museum in more than one language.
>
> On behalf of English Wikipedians of WikiProject India, I pledge you
> our support to your venture. Feel free to ask for help on
> Wikimedia-in-en list & WikiProject India noticeboard.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> --
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:39 AM, Subhashish Panigrahi
>  wrote:
> > I whole heatedly congratulate you for this real success, oral citation
> seem
> > to be a good way of collecting sources as most of the stuff they'd be
> having
> > will have a documented format in the minds of people which we would be
> > documented only via oral citation.
> >
> > Subha
>
> >
> > On 11-Feb-2012, at 1:11 AM, Noopur  wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> > I am extremely delighted to announce India's first (?) GLAM collaboration
> > with a State institution in New Delhi, the capital of India. The National
>
>
Well done!

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Please sign up for WikiProject India if you are an English language Wikipedian (yes, English is an Indic language)

[Vickram Crishna]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Swaroop Rao wrote:

> Swaroop Rao
> (MikeLynch )
>
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 20:29, Ashwin Baindur wrote:
>
>> I think we need to contact dormant editors and ask them why they
>> stopped editing.
>>
>> Here is something to think about - is there such a thing as a
>> "lifecycle of a Wikipedia" where a person goes through stages &
>> finally burns out?
>>
>> Just found some WikiHumor related to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Seven_Ages_of_Wikipedians
>
>>
>>
Only one 'age' appears to be missing: the age when the Wikipedian decides
that one might as well earn some money editing Wikipedia, even though it is
expressly forbidden and hugely frowned upon. They then hire themselves out
to ponytailed education businessmen, and when this is discovered, many
Wikipedians express their deep sorrow and regret, and remember the good old
days when X was such a straight arrow.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Please sign up for WikiProject India if you are an English language Wikipedian (yes, English is an Indic language)

[Vickram Crishna]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agree with Ashwin. That feeling of nostalgia is very powerful.
> Vickram, the case of Nichalp is a one of case. It doesn't happen with
> EVERYONE.


:-) Thank goodness, too!

But this commercialisation aspect is one that was asked at the WikiAcademy.
It is important to explain the ethos right from the beginning. In fact,
once this case is resolved, it would be good to have it documented so that
it can be used to strongly illustrate the point.


>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Ashwin Baindur  > wrote:
>
>> Hey, we expect people who have moved on to different things NOT to cut
>> all ties but to return back out of nostalgia, often enough.
>>
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> Ashwin Baindur
>> --
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 02:28, Anirudh Bhati wrote:
>>>
  It has probably got more to do with the fact that pages on the
 encyclopedia (even about general Indian topics) look complete and thorough
>>>
>>>
>>> Also the fact that availability of RS affects. Infact I would say that
>>> as one of reason for my non-involvment in the WP:INR workgroup. We created
>>> most of content from MoRTH and available RS which are worthy enough to be
>>> on encyclopedia. There is so much to add about Indian Roads, but where are
>>> the sources :(
>>>
>>> Naveen found WP:INEI , but then I was "hijacked" to Tamil Wiki :D
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards
>>> Srikanth.L
>>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th.
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
> Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza.
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [WMIN-Members] Wikimedia India Chapter receives FCRA Prior Permission

[Vickram Crishna]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I see. Is there any time based restriction? As in limits increase over a
> period of time?
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:09 AM, Anirudh Bhati wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan
>>  wrote:
>> > Good news.
>> > I guess this means the Chapter can receive funding from the Foundation
>> and
>> > other foreign bodies?
>>
>> No, just the Foundation and a specific amount for now.
>>
>
I think what Anirudh means is that the permission has been given for a
specific tranche of money, from the Foundation, specifically. It is prior
permission, so the money can now be remitted without any problems.


>> >
>> > ___
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>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th.
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
> Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza.
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Konkani Wikipedia.

[Vickram Crishna]

As the old military expression goes, the impossible just takes a little
longer. Choose one script/dialect combination (organically, not by diktat),
develop it to a starting point, and I venture to suggest that enthusiasts
will come forward to support developing the variants.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Developing each dialect is too complex. It doesn't look feasible.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th.
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
> Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza.
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: eidete - a nice screencaster for gnu/linux

[Vickram Crishna]

This is super.

Nitika may find this tremendously helpful for her proposed online outreach
sessions. We can also crowdsource video shorts: tips and tricks for various
aspects of Wikimedia stuff, in multiple languages.

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Shrinivasan T wrote:

> we can use this to create videos in all languages to teach how to
> contribute for wikipedia.
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: "Shrinivasan T" 
> Date: Mar 1, 2012 7:21 PM
> Subject: eidete - a nice screencaster for gnu/linux
> To: "ILUG-C" 
>
> Found a nice screencasting application for ubuntu - eidete
>
> Though the gnome 3 has its inbuilt screen recording app using
> crtl+alt+shift+r
> it can record only video, not the audio.
>
> I was looking for a decent screenrecorder with voice.
>
> gtk-recordmydesktop is good. But, we have to configure the parameters to
> get video without any scattering effects.
>
> Tried eidete. It is so good. Video is stored as webm format. video/audio
> quality is fine.
>
> Check more about it here:
> https://launchpad.net/eidete
>
> http://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2012/01/record-your-screen-activity-with-eidete.html
>
> Recorded a sample screencast - "intro to gnome 3" in Tamil.
> check it here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg5h1-YgoJI
>
> Now, you can create screencasts easily with Eidete.
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> T.Shrinivasan
>
>
> My Life with GNU/Linux : http://goinggnu.wordpress.com
> Free/Open Source Jobs : http://fossjobs.in
>
> Get CollabNet Subversion Edge : http://www.collab.net/svnedge
>
>
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[Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Re: India is country under Internet surveillance : Reporters without Borders

[Vickram Crishna]

On Mar 14, 2012 11:51 AM, "Pradeep Mohandas" 
wrote:
>
> Please mark such posts as off topic.

That depends on how OT is defined. We already face internal restrictions
defining content, we face 'security' restrictions finding content (re our
discussions on photographing heritage structures), and for all we know, one
day we will find ourselves tagged by officious offshoots of the State for
even having independent minds and seeking to spread knowledge.

Sure, Anivar did not spell all this out. Did he need to?

>
> Thank you for letting us know.
>
> Pradeep
> Handheld
>
> On Mar 14, 2012 11:01 AM, "Anivar Aravind" 
wrote:
>>
>> Reporters Without Borders' annual list of "enemies of the Internet"
published
>>
>> India and Kazakhstan, new additions to the “under surveillance” category
>>
>> Since the Mumbai bombings of 2008, the Indian authorities have stepped
>> up Internet surveillance and pressure on technical service providers,
>> while publicly rejecting accusations of censorship. The national
>> security policy of the world’s biggest democracy is undermining
>> freedom of expression and the protection of Internet users’ personal
>> data.
>>
>> Read Full report
>> http://en.rsf.org/beset-by-online-surveillance-and-12-03-2012,42061.html
>>
>> BBC report http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17350225
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anivar Aravind
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and
>> 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from
>> other kinds of precise information." - Donald Knuth
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] India Programs-Fortnightly IRC: Thursday March 15th @ 9pm IST (Indic Languages) & Thursday March 29th @9pm IST (Outreach & Communication) (#wikimedia-office)

[Vickram Crishna]

Just to chime in with some observations (empirical, possibly OT) about
means of communication. IRC is one of those elegant solutions that just
aren't everyone's cup of tea, but sometimes because they haven't tried.
Actually, it is the nearest thing to a physical meeting, with the same
rules of conduct. It requires only a minimal bandwidth connection, and
(afaik) has no limitation of people participating.

In this sense it competes headon with Hangout and so on, but, because it
has somewhat of an 'insider' perspective (entirely unearned) not many
people feel that comfortable using it. It is text only, and nobody cares if
you type slowly or badly. It is not useful for file transfers and so on, so
one cannot 'show' how something works or should work, or what the problem
is. This is usually not the purpose to which it is put, either.

The only prerequisite is that you should have something (hopefully
relevant) to say. The person choosing (or chosen) to summarise the meeting
can do as Pradeep suggested, and do so on an open wikipage which can then
be used to discuss wider, including those people who could not attend, but
feel they have not conceded the right or duty to contribute by not doing so
(maybe their mother-in-law was visiting, or something equally critical).

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Pradeep Mohandas <
pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi,
>
> I hope some of the IRC-veterans can pitch in here.
>
> Not everyone is comfortable with IRC. I think these sessions will be more
> helpful for all involved if we had a statement put up on a wiki or on the
> mailing list by individuals who want to make these statements and then have
> a round of questions around the topics (as an example: community and
> outreach) which were meant to be discussed at the meeting.
>
> Then, perhaps throw the floor open for general questions that members of
> the community want to raise. I think this will make it interactive and not
> be percieved as a narrative or a one-sided discussion. These may not have
> been intentional and should have been raised earlier.
>
> I hope the Office continues this practice and tries to improve its
> effectiveness as they move forward.
>
> warm regards,
> User:Prad2609
>
> On 15 March 2012 20:45, Hisham  wrote:
>
>> Reminder that we are starting in 15 minutes.
>>
>> Do join in!  Details below.
>>
>>   *hisham*
>>
>> On Mar 15, 2012, at 8:38 AM, Hisham wrote:
>>
>> Gentle reminder. Do join in.
>>
>>   *hisham*
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:41 AM, Hisham wrote:
>>
>> Hi Folks
>>
>> One of the essential things that India Program needs to constantly work
>> out is keeping the community informed of the work that we are doing - so
>> that this work is clearer but also to help cross-pollinate ideas amongst a
>> wider set of community members who might not have been engaged on specific
>> village pump / talk page discussion or involved in particular activities
>> (e.g. outreach events) or wikiprojects.
>>
>> We used to have a monthly IRC with the community and India Program.
>>   (For those who are not familiar with IRC, it is an Internet messaging
>> system similar to a regular chat room.  It's very simple to use and you can
>> join in by clicking on the following link:*
>> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-office*.)  I have been
>> remiss in conducting these for the past few months - and I'd like to make
>> amends by restarting, with a couple of modifications.
>>
>> a) I'd like to propose fortnightly instead of monthly.  (I was wary of
>> doing it any more frequently than monthly earlier because I didn't know if
>> there would be enough on the plate to discuss.  I have changed my mind now
>> - because there is too much to discuss to cover in a single monthly
>> session.)  I'd like to propose that we do it in the 1st and 3rd Thursdays
>> of every month at 9pm IST (which is GMT + 0530) - THOUGH NOT THIS MONTH -
>> BECAUSE I HAVE MISSED THE TIMELINE.  Just for March, we will do it on *March
>> 15th* and March 29th (both at *9pm IST* which is GMT + 0530)
>> b) I'd like to propose that we do it focussed on specific work streams
>> instead of general.  The reason I say this is that - as with many community
>> meet-ups, folks will give time to attend a meet-up or participate in an IRC
>> only if there is a topic of relevance to them.  To that extent, we could do
>> one IRC on Indic languages and one on Outreach & Communications.  I'd start
>> both the IRCs with a re-cap of India Programs activities for the fortnight
>> (or so) prior to the IRC and forward from the IRC - and then we could talk
>> about either Indic langauges or Outreach & Communications.
>>
>> The *March 15th one will be focussed on Indic Languages* and the one on
>> March 29th will be on Outreach & Communications.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-in-del] GLAM meetup 1: Crafts museum

[Vickram Crishna]

Actually, you are mailing the entire list. The instructions for quitting
the list are at the bottom of every email, but I am repeating it here at
the top for your convenience:

"To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l";


On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM, shaswati Kumari
wrote:

> Hi nupur  i am mailing u ,to help me how to stop mails on my id by
> wikimedia.please help.
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Noopur  wrote:
>
>> Forwarding the GLAM meetup report!
>>
>> Thanks for your call Arun! Those guys were really excited to see
>> cross-city Wikipedians calling.
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Abhishek Tiwari 
>> Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 11:28 PM
>> Subject: [Wikimedia-in-del] GLAM meetup 1: Crafts museum
>> To: wikimedia-in-...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>>
>> Dear rockstars,
>>
>> I am thrilled to inform you about our successful GLAM meetup at the
>> National Crafts Museum, New Delhi on 18th March, Sunday.
>>
>> We met at 2  p.m. and took a walk around all the galleries and exhibits.
>> We had a total of 14 participants including Subhashish and Noopur who are
>> existing volunteers.
>> By 3:30 we had looked around and spotted articles of interest like Gond
>> painting, Mandana painting, Shekhawati painting etcetera.
>> It was great to see a diversity in editing interests since there were 4
>> editors who actually worked particularly on Hindi articles.
>> More information regarding our activities can be found here:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Delhi/Crafts_Museum_Meet
>>
>> The Director of the museum, Dr Ruchira Ghose had allowed us to take
>> pictures in all galleries. This comes as a move to release permissions to
>> photograph art objects and upload them under CC licensing. From 3:30 to
>> 5:30 we were editing different pages, most importantly learning how to
>> reference so that our edits are not deleted. The deputy director, Ms Nidhi
>> was also around to help us navigate through the place. We hope to continue
>> meeting at least once a month.
>>
>> Now, that we've assigned specific galleries to groups of two, we're
>> expecting some pretty insightful research. Moreover, it will make more
>> sense to first focus and specialize in a particular kind of art. In
>> subsequent phases, we plan to shuffle it all up to get rich perspectives
>> from others on the subjects too.
>>
>> Also, this would give us a flexibility of approaching the museum at times
>> best suited to *our* schedules.
>>
>> I would love if some experienced editors interacted with us and guided
>> our efforts too!
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Regards
>> -- abhishek
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-del
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Noopur Raval
>> Student
>> Arts and Aesthetics
>> Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi
>> Ph: 9650567690
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] India Program-Fortnightly IRC: Thursday March 29th @ 9pm IST (Outreach & Communication) (#wikimedia-office)

[Vickram Crishna]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hisham, you say you're conducted 22+ sessions. How would you rate the
> relative success of each of them? Four people editing on the day isn't
> good enough. Long term editors should be used to measure success.
>

I think what you mean to say is that the editors on the day need to be
tracked (not them: their contributions) regularly. This might aid in
directing them to whatever post-outreach assistance they need, and also
might result in the outreach 'business' snowballing, once other editors see
how effective this is. I see two kinds of success for an outreach program:

1. Outreach multiplication, measured in outreach sessions per period
(week/month/year)
2. Successful outreach sessions, measured in number of editors contributing
x periods (weeks/months/years) after they participated in an outreach

There is a third possible outcome, which is identifying (and perhaps
rewarding) people who are good (ie conversion of newbies into editors) at
outreach.

I also see a different kind of outreach outcome, but which probably needs a
different kind of outreach session, and that is through the addition of
software contributors.

> --
> Regards,
> Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [OT] Fwd:Parliament - Say no to Internet Censorship

[Vickram Crishna]

Not at all OT (unless the rules of this list say otherwise)

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote:

> -- Forwarded message --
> Date: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 17:52
> Subject: [ilugb] Parliament - Say no to Internet Censorship
>
>
> Parliament - Say no to Internet Censorship
>
>
>
> The Government notified on April 13, 2011 the Information Technology
> (Intermediaries guidelines) Rules, 2011 prescribing guidelines to be
> observed by the intermediaries. The rules were issued in exercise of the
> powers conferred by clause (zg) of subsection (2) of section 87 read with
> sub-section (2) of section 79 of the Information Technology Act, 2000 (Act
> 21 of 2000). The provisions of the new rules are unconstitutional as they
> affect the right to freedom of speech and expression as well as right to
> privacy of citizens, are arbitrary being violative of Art. 14 of the
> Constitution of India and are ultra vires of the parent act. SFLC.in [1]
> has come out with an ebook, Legal analysis of IT(Intermediaries
> guidelines)Rules 2011 [2] explaining the impact of the guidelines which the
> government has come up with.
>
>
>
> FSMK[3] with support of other organizations is planning a national level
> campaign against this law which will be discussed in parliament on the
> second half of the budget session which starts from April 24th. Hence we
> have chosen 21st April for the nation wide campaign against the law.
> Content regarding the campaign and the issue is being updated, [4].
>
> Please let me know if the organizations that you are associated with can
> support us for this campaign. We are maintaining a list of all organization
> who are supporting us [5].
>
>
>
> Also please support this campaign by sharing the link of the website[4]
> and also by signing the petition [6].
>
>
>
> We are also looking for any creative posters/ideas related to this topic
> which will help us in spreading the word. Please feel free to share such
> content with us so that we can update it in the website.
>
>
>
> [1] - http://softwarefreedom.in/
>
> [2] - [pdf]
> http://softwarefreedom.in/attachments/article/125/LegalAnalysis_ItIntermediaryRules.pdf
>
> [3] - http://fsmk.org
>
> [4] - http://friendsofinternet.wikispaces.com/
>
> [5] - http://friendsofinternet.wikispaces.com/List+of+friends+of+internet
>
> [6] -
> http://www.change.org/petitions/mps-of-india-support-the-annulment-motion-to-protect-internet-freedom-stopitrules
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Vignesh
> Software Engineer
>
> http://2paisasbyviggy.wordpress.com/
> http://fsmk.org
>
>
> --
> Regards
> Srikanth.L
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Volunteer for CIS's A2K programme director recruitment committee

[Vickram Crishna]

On Aug 5, 2012 3:05 PM, "Yuvi Panda"  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Sunil Abraham  wrote:
>
> Simply out of curiosity, what would constitute 'sufficient' managerial
> experience?

The rest of us were hoping ;-) you would explain.
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Volunteer for CIS's A2K programme director recruitment committee

[Vickram Crishna]

On Aug 6, 2012 12:19 PM, "Sunil Abraham"  wrote:
>
> Dear Yuvi and Vickram,
>
> On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Vickram Crishna
>  wrote:
> >
> > On Aug 5, 2012 3:05 PM, "Yuvi Panda"  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Sunil Abraham  wrote:
> >>
> >> Simply out of curiosity, what would constitute 'sufficient' managerial
> >> experience?
> >
> > The rest of us were hoping ;-) you would explain.
>
> Apologies for the imprecise language. I was thinking of 'sufficient'
> being middle ground between 1) 'any managerial experience' and 2)
> 'significant managerial experience'. More imprecise phrases to clarify
> an imprecise phrase.
>
> The trouble however in the world of free knowledge and open culture -
> is that those playing a leadership role are not thought of as
> managers. But often these leaders have much more management experience
> than those exposed only to traditional organisations.

True. Your explanation clarifies that what is needed is leadership
experience, possibly either with large or small teams, obviously somebody
who has enough time to devote during the next month or two for this task,
but not for the role being filled.

I suggest that instead of leaving the 'sufficient' adjective in place,
simply request all volunteers with leadership experience to apply (i.e. to
advise their availability), and choose the one with the greatest time spent
in such roles.

>
> Best wishes,
>
> Sunil
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] what is a Monument?

[Vickram Crishna]

> > On Aug 13, 2012 11:51 PM, "Pradeep Mohandas"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Quite a philosophical question this no?
> > >
> > > Apparently, India has an act that defines what are monuments. It goes
by the rather descriptive name,  Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Sites
and Remains Act, 1958. You can read this act here -
http://www.asi.nic.in/asi_monuments.asp
> >
Some monuments are well preserved, and others are a blot on our conscience,
and the 'activities' of the ASI.

Not that this is the objective, and not that the objective of our
participation in WLM is to create a tourist paradise, but I do hope that
some of the photographic documentation achieved in this year's photothon
will help create some public outcry against the widespread decay and
neglect.

We have, in general, far too many laws and far too little public concern
about the manner of their implementation.

> >
> > >
> > > My answer to you here is in a much broader context than the
competition, in reference to which you ask this question.
> > >
> > > warm regards,
> > > Pradeep Mohandas
> > >
> > > > From: tshriniva...@gmail.com
> > > > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 23:25:55 +0530
> > > > To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] what is a Monument?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Karthik Nadar <
karthik...@wikimedia.in> wrote:
> > > > > Just to confirm, heritage temple is part of monument.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > I hope churches, mosques also come under monument.
> > > > please confirm.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards,
> > > > T.Shrinivasan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My Life with GNU/Linux : http://goinggnu.wordpress.com
> > > > Free/Open Source Jobs : http://fossjobs.in
> > > >
> > > > Get CollabNet Subversion Edge : http://www.collab.net/svnedge
> > > >
> > > > ___
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> > >
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Plz consider the primary education as a issue of concern.

[Vickram Crishna]

The founder of Sugar labs, Walter Bender, will be in India from about 21-29
August (i.e. now) and will speak at HBCSE in Mumbai on 28 August, 4-6 pm,
for those interested in furthering the importance of good quality primary
education. It is an open, public, meeting.

Sugar is the platform developed for the xo NetBook under the olpc program,
and is available on most general purpose computers today, and also on a pen
drive for a test drive before installation. It provides children with a
playground to learn, with communication and collaboration key ingredients.

Interested persons needing to know more about the Mumbai program may
contact me offlist.  His full schedule will be posted shortly, as he is
also visiting Guwahati, Goa and Delhi.

On Aug 22, 2012 1:11 AM, "nazm...@gmail.com"  wrote:
>
> Here in India most of Rural Pre & Primary School education level going
down interms of Quality. There huge nos of kids being the prey of quality
less education.
> So next gen is being destroyed in the name of total literacy. Lets
organise a campaign aganist that.a-l, the public mailing list of the
Wikimedia
> community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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>
>
>  --
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Hiring of Executive Manager for Wikimedia India

[Vickram Crishna]

Hi Naveen

May I suggest that some experience in collaborative working be included in
the specs. It is not a 'natural' skill, especially not (in my experience)
when working with digital media, which I notice is one of the needs, and is
not a skill directly rewarded in Old World organisations. No matter how
excellent the report(s) produced, this community in particular wants to be
involved.
On Aug 28, 2012 7:09 AM, "Naveen Francis"  wrote:

> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> Greetings !
>
> I am glad to share with you about hiring Executive Manager for Wikimedia
> India.
> The job description is enclosed. (
> http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Job_Description_for_Executive_Manager)
> I request you to share these details in your network and help in staffing
> the position.
>
> Thanks,
> Naveen Francis
> Secretary, Wikimedia India Chapter
>
> **
> Job Description for Executive Manager
>
> The candidate will be the first staff member of the organisation and will
> have the exciting opportunity of growing the organisation to maximise its
> impact. The staff size is expected to grow 5 people over 2-3 years.
>
> The successful candidate will initially report to President of the
> Wikimedia India or a designated Executive Committee(EC) member. Most
> interactions will be with the EC and extended leadership team of the
> Chapter, Members, Community and partner organizations. Hence the candidate
> needs to be flexible about working hours. This position is based in
> Bangalore, India. Salary will be commensurate with Qualification. More
> details of work expected from the Candidate are given below.
>
>1. Help develop short term and long term plans for the growth of
>Wikimedia project readers and Editors
>2. Support Wikimedia India events
>3. Present about Chapter, Wikimedia Foundation and conduct basic
>computer and Wiki literacy trainings.
>4. Hire additional staff,interns as per plan
>5. Develop Fund raising plan and execute with a goal of raising
>atleast 25% of budget locally in the first 2 years.
>6. Prepare drafts of regular communication for Members, Community,
>WMF, Press and communication after approval by leadership team
>7. Maintenance of books of Accounts, membership and Donor
>database:Preparation & maintenance of Vouchers, issue of Receipts, making
>payments, preparation and issue of checks and making cash payments, TDS
>etc.,
>8. Preparation of Quarterly Financial statements.
>9. Preparation of Annual Accounts,coordination with Consultants and
>Auditor
>10. Filing of Income Tax returns and matters related to it.
>11. Filing of Annual return with audited Accounts with the Registrar
>of Societies, Bangalore.
>12. Liason with Consultants and Government Departments with regard to
>Section 12A Registration, FCRA, Online membership/donation/voting for
>Society etc.
>
>  Candidate
>
> The following education, experience and skills are required:
>  Education
>
> Masters degree in Commerce/Social Sciences/Science & engineering streams
> Experience
>
> Recently retired professionals with at least latest three years of
> experience at Senior leadership level will be given preference. For other
> candidates, 5-10 years over all experience with at least 3 years in
> leadership role is required.
> Skills
>
>1. Excellent written and oral communication skills
>2. Ability to work with minimal supervision
>3. Experience of atleast three years with Office productivity software
>for documentation, presentation, data analysis, financial management and
>conferencing
>
> How to Apply
>
>- If you wish to apply please send a *CV with* *a one page
>essay(600-800 words) on "Strategies for maximising the impact of Wikimedia
>India and the role for WMIN Staff"* to care...@wikimedia.in by Sep 8,
>2012
>- Only candidates shortlisted will be called for Interview at
>Bangalore during Sep 15-Sep 23 and the selected candidate is expected to
>take up the role from Oct 1, 2012.
>- Outstation candidates will have to make their own arrangements for
>the interviews at Bangalore.
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Outreach] 1st Wikipedia Workshop in British Library, Chandigarh

[Vickram Crishna]

Well done! You seem to have had an amazing session over two days!
On Aug 28, 2012 8:24 AM, "Piyush Aggarwal" 
wrote:

> Greetings Everyone,
>
> I am back from Chandigarh after attending one of the two amazing sessions
> at British library. The session on day 1 (24 August) was held by Subha and
> the session on day 2 (25 August) was held by both of us. We are writing a
> summary of the two events.
>
> *Day 1 (24 Aug): Introductory Session*
> There was a news coverage in Hindustan Times (
> https://plus.google.com/111646825844146884911/posts/Yy9xGd9kV14)
> regarding this session. The members of British Library were informed
> (members above 16 years) by British Council's mailing list (
> http://www.britishcouncilonline.org/events/besuccessful_event_details.aspx?EventID=776).
> We had 32 participants for the first day. There were people of all
> different age groups and various different backgrounds, surprisingly more
> elderly people than youngsters! People came from Ludhiana, Mohalli and
> Panchkula (Mohalli and Panchkula are two nearby cities) have joined for
> this session. Subha asked all of them to introduce and speak about their
> Wikipedia experience and interaction as a user. Many of them asked
> questions in the beginning itself which was beneficial with spending some
> time to know each other. The participants were taken through the
> presentation by questioning about "Who edit WP and why they edit". They
> were asking a lot of questions in between so the intro session was longer.
> Most people still were not believing that Wikipedia articles could be
> edited by people like them. So Subha decided to do some vandalism ;-) One
> of the participants volunteered for creating her user account and we
> changed the year of Chandigarh declared as being the "cleanest city" of
> India. Then she corrected it and Subha explained how experienced editors
> correct such mistakes. The participants were showed only few formatting
> like Bold, Italics, Linking and Heading and showed the "Help" tab from
> which they can learn more. Majority of them had doubts about credibility
> and they brought examples of many articles having wrong information. So the
> rest half of the session was spent discussing about the low visibility is
> one of the reasons of articles with wrong information and how more editor
> contribution is essential for articles of Indian context. They were also
> shown articles with cleanup/"More citations needed" maintenance tags and
> how they could be improved.
>
> *Day 2 (25 Aug):* *Editing Workshop*
> Day 2 saw 10 participants from the previous day (including a
> sports-blogger, a techie, 4 students, a ELT trainer, a pediatrician and a
> lady from Ludhiana who created her user account on Day 1 and brought her
> father for Day 2) and 4 new student participants. Subha and me talked
> briefly about what is intended for the editing session. All of them created
> their user accounts, some of the participants helped the new participants
> to create their user accounts. They chose various different articles
> including articles of local importance (Banka Bihari temple, Chandigarh,
> Paratha (few raised the question why it is not spelt as ParaNtha!!)), Assam
> tea, etc.
>
> The audience were really patient and asking more questions about "What is
> there for me", "What are we going to do next". So we all gathered for a
> photoshoot and discussed about setting up a wiki club so they stay
> connected. They were excited to hear that Chandigarh British Library
> Wikipedia club (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Club_Chandigarh) will be
> India's 3rd Wikipedia Club.
>
> We all shared ideas and about how they will be continuing editing after
> the session is over. Now a facebook group has been created (
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/WikiClubChandigarh) to guide the new
> editors with editing.
>
> *Meeting with Christina and Varinder:*
> After the session got over we had a meeting with Christina (Manager) and
> Varinder (IT Head of Brit Lib). One of the Tribune columnists (Renee Singh)
> and a participant also joined us. We explained how the wiki club will
> function and would help them also. Being a Library they could involve many
> of their members in this. A new lady editor from Ludhiana has shown
> interest for conducting workshops in her town. There was a sports-blogger
> and a techie who explained how the local blogger community (over 125+
> bloggers) meet up regularly and blog actively. This is a community we could
> explore more to promote Wikipedia amongst techies. What we found is British
> Library is quite open to ideas and showed interest for this collaborative
> model. The participants were asking can we define positions for the wiki
> club also so that people having different interest could take up lead for
> different activities.
>
> Post event steps:
>
> - Emails with thanks and appreciating their interest were sent to the
> participants.
> - Formal opening of the club is d

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India report - September 2012

[Vickram Crishna]

Great. Just one question - do we have a cross-country statistic on per
capita contribution for wlm?

And a request to list members – please circulate key parts of Naveen's
report to journalists of your acquaintance.

-- 
Vickram
Fool On The Hill
"The cameras were all around. We've got you taped; you're in the play.
Here's your I.D. (Ideal for identifying one and all.)
Invest your life in the memory bank; ours the interest and we thank you."
Jethro Tull: A Passion Play (1973)
On Oct 13, 2012 8:40 AM, "Naveen Francis"  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Greetings from Wikimedia India !
> Organisational Updates
>
> The second Annual General body meeting was held on 23 Sep 2012. Annual
> report for 
> 2011-12was
>  released on the occasion.
>
> *Elections*
> Elections were conducted during the AGM. Karthik Nadar Nikita Belavate,
> Pranav Curumsey, Srikanth Ramakrishnan and Viswa Prabha were declared
> elected.
>
> *Membership:*
> Membership as of 30 Sep, 2012 is 126. M/s Arnion Technologies Pvt Ltd,
> Ahmedabad became the first institutional member, following the grant of
> membership on 19 Sep 2012.
>
> *Donations:*
> Amount of donations processed during the month is Rs Nil.
>
> *Board Meetings:*
> Board did not have in person meetings in September.However AGM was
> attended by five EC members.
>
> *WikiConference 2011*
> Conference Audit 
> Reportpublished
>  along with Chapter Audit report during AGM on 23 Sep 2012
>
> *Executive Manager*
> EC after an exhaustive search and selection process has appointed Sowmyan
> Tirumurti as Executive Manager of the organisation. This is the first
> position to be staffed. Mr Sowmyan has over 40 years of experience in
> Aerospace, and Computer peripherals industry. He has worked with Indian
> Space Research Organization, DCM Data Products, ORG Systems, TVS
> Electronics, and Honeywell Technology Solutions in India. He has held roles
> related to R&D management, Quality improvement, Cost improvement,
> Marketing, Sales and service support, Strategy planning, Supply chain
> management, Contract management, and Compliance monitoring.
>
> After retiring from Honeywell Technology Solutions in 2008, he has
> explored many web based content delivery methodologies meant for continuing
> education. He has promoted webcasting at low bandwidth, created a web site
> for lessons on Six sigma and Hoshin kanri, taught Japanese language through
> a Youtube channel, and attended Massive Open Online Courses (MOOC) on
> Coursera and Udacity.
>
> Sowmyan joined Wikimedia India on 1st October 2012 as Executive Manager
> based in Bangalore. His primary role is to support the members and the
> community in organizing and running the various promotion programs.
> Sowmyan's photo is at http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Staff
>  Wiki loves monuments
>
> Here are some statistics and updates from India:
>
>- 16,796 photos have been uploaded from India thanks to Wiki Loves
>Monuments 2012.
>- There were 2,230 participants from the country, meaning India had by
>far the most participants.
>- Anupamg , Thamizhpparithi
>Maari ,
>Sthitaprajna ,
>Darwinacitizen and
>Vu2sga  were the top
>five contributors from India.
>- Taj Mahal(Indian Monument N-UP-A28-a) is the world wide winner - a
>monument which was clicked by maximum no of photographers. It was
>photographed by 114 different users in Wiki Loves Monuments 2012.
>
> First round of filtering is going on and it is expected to be completed by
> Oct 15,2012.
> Community & Special Interest Groups
>
> *Events:*
>
>- AGM,23 Sep 2012 See blog 
> post
>- Wiki Academy at IIT, Madras, 6 Oct 2012.
>
> *Upcoming Events*
>
>- 50th Bangalore Meetup.
>- New EC induction program is being planned for 13-16th at Bangalore.
>New office bearer election and induction of new EC members by outgoing EC
>members on various aspects of running the organisation and planning for
>2012-13 are the expected major outcomes from this meeting.
>
> A round-up of Wikimedia events, academies and initiatives around the
> nation are updated here .
>  Media Coverage
>
> No much media coverage this month.
> Grants Funded
>
> No grant requests.
>
>
> We look forward to your continued support and active participation.
>
> Best,
> On behalf of Wikimedia Chapter (India)
>
> Naveen Francis
> Secretary
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages (was Re: Spoken Wikipedia for Indic Languages)

[Vickram Crishna]

Judging from this clarification, it seems that a position is being created
that the Indus valley civilisation was the sole active player in the
separation of Dravidian from non-Dravidian communities, and that we should
shun any attempt to use the word Indic, as that might show unnecessary
respect to the Indus valley lot, in comparison. But is this true, or an
accurate reflection of historical events, or is it just blurred hindsight,
or even some agenda?

Here's the relevant excerpt from the page on the Indus valley civilisation:

See also: Substratum in Vedic Sanskrit

The IVC has been tentatively identified with the toponym Meluhha known from
Sumerian records. It has been compared in particular with the civilizations
of Elam (also in the context of the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis) and with
Minoan Crete (because of isolated cultural parallels such as the ubiquitous
goddess worship and depictions of bull-leaping). [87] The mature (Harappan)
phase of the IVC is contemporary to the Early to Middle Bronze Age in the
Ancient Near East, in particular the Old Elamite period, Early Dynastic to
Ur III Mesopotamia, Prepalatial Minoan Crete and Old Kingdom to First
Intermediate Period Egypt.

After the discovery of the IVC in the 1920s, it was immediately associated
with the indigenous Dasyu inimical to the Rigvedic tribes in numerous hymns
of the Rigveda. Mortimer Wheeler interpreted the presence of many unburied
corpses found in the top levels of Mohenjo-Daro as the victims of a warlike
conquest, and famously stated that "Indra stands accused" of the
destruction of the IVC. The association of the IVC with the city-dwelling
Dasyus remains alluring because the assumed timeframe of the first
Indo-Aryan migration into India corresponds neatly with the period of
decline of the IVC seen in the archaeological record. The discovery of the
advanced, urban IVC however changed the 19th century view of early
Indo-Aryan migration as an "invasion" of an advanced culture at the expense
of a "primitive" aboriginal population to a gradual acculturation of
nomadic "barbarians" on an advanced urban civilization, comparable to the
Germanic migrations after the Fall of Rome, or the Kassite invasion of
Babylonia. This move away from simplistic "invasionist" scenarios parallels
similar developments in thinking about language transfer and population
movement in general, such as in the case of the migration of the
proto-Greek speakers into Greece, or the Indo-Europeanization of Western
Europe.

It was often suggested that the bearers of the IVC corresponded to
proto-Dravidians linguistically, the breakup of proto-Dravidian
corresponding to the breakup of the Late Harappan culture. [88] Today, the
Dravidian language family is concentrated mostly in southern India and
northern Sri Lanka, but pockets of it still remain throughout the rest of
India and Pakistan (the Brahui language), which lends credence to the
theory. Finnish Indologist Asko Parpola concludes that the uniformity of
the Indus inscriptions precludes any possibility of widely different
languages being used, and that an early form of Dravidian language must
have been the language of the Indus people. However, in an interview with
the Deccan Herald on August 12, 2012, Asko Parpola clarified his position
by admitting that Sanskrit-speakers had contributed to the Indus Valley
Civilization. [89] Proto-Munda (or Para-Munda) and a "lost phylum" (perhaps
related or ancestral to the Nihali language) [90] have been proposed as
other candidates.

The civilization is sometimes referred to as the Indus Ghaggar-Hakra
civilization [5] or the Indus-Sarasvati civilization by Hindutva groups,
which is based on theories of Indigenous Aryans and the Out of India
migration of Indo-European speakers.
-

It seems the jury is still out on this, and there is no value to adopting
polarised viewpoints at this stage, just four months after the latest
information about this issue, which is so ambivalent. Considering the
history is of so many thousand years back, and that there is so little
definitive data about this particular aspect of it, why should we get so
didactic? Do we have a better (ie more inclusive) word at hand?

-- 
Vickram
Fool On The Hill
"The cameras were all around. We've got you taped; you're in the play.
Here's your I.D. (Ideal for identifying one and all.)
Invest your life in the memory bank; ours the interest and we thank you."
Jethro Tull: A Passion Play (1973)
On Nov 14, 2012 1:02 PM, "Anirudh Bhati"  wrote:

> My email was not directed at anyone personally.  It was simply a response
> to the observation Srikanth made and from what I glanced from Wikipedia
> articles.[1]  In the context of linguistics, you will be hard-pressed to
> find reliable sources that refer to Indic languages as a generic term for
> all of Indian languages.
>
> The word 'Indic' itself is a derivative of the word "Hindus" or "Indus"
> referring to the Indus Valley Civilization, which did not stretch as fa

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages (was Re: Spoken Wikipedia for Indic Languages)

[Vickram Crishna]

Wrt the spread of the ivc, excavations have been made in southern
Maharashtra as well that show similar characteristics (news reports over
the last few years; I don't have references). I don't think that one can
absolutely conclude that it did not spread to the Deccan.

-- 
Vickram
Fool On The Hill
"The cameras were all around. We've got you taped; you're in the play.
Here's your I.D. (Ideal for identifying one and all.)
Invest your life in the memory bank; ours the interest and we thank you."
Jethro Tull: A Passion Play (1973)
On Nov 14, 2012 1:20 PM, "Amir E. Aharoni" 
wrote:

> 2012/11/14 Anirudh Bhati :
> > The word 'Indic' itself is a derivative of the word "Hindus" or "Indus"
> > referring to the Indus Valley Civilization, which did not stretch as far
> as
> > Deccan India where the Dravidian family of languages have been prevalent.
> > The distinction between the Indic languages and Dravidian languages is an
> > important one, and they should not be confused to be one and the same.
>
> So are the words "India" and "Indian". If this logic is true, then the
> English name of the Republic of India, and the name of this mailing
> list would be derogatory as well. Evidently, to most people they
> aren't.
>
> Nobody here is dismissing Dravidian languages. Everybody understands
> that they are distinct. It's just that the word "Indic" often refers
> to them, too. When the context and the meaning may be unclear, use
> "Indo-Aryan" and "Dravidian".
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic Language Wiki Results in Google (With a Chrome Extension)

[Vickram Crishna]

I'm forwarding this to an acquaintance in Google, with a request to include
multilingual results as a link in regular searches.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote:

> Great!! What more, this comes on Tamil New year !!
>
> Agree with Sundar that Google must push this from server side. Instead of
> spending huge money on translations etc, these efforts actually help Indic /
> regional language Wikipedia's
>
> Regards
> Srikanth.L
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:58, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
>
>> Great, Yuvi. Let's all use this feature ourselves and hopefully Google
>> will take not of it and promote the other language wiki pages in their
>> search results themselves.
>>
>> - Sundar
>>
>> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium
>> for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
>> - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
>>
>> --- On *Thu, 4/14/11, Yuvi Panda * wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Yuvi Panda 
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic Language Wiki Results in Google
>> (With a Chrome Extension)
>> To: "Discussion list on Indian language projects of Wikimedia." <
>> wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Date: Thursday, April 14, 2011, 12:31 AM
>>
>>
>> Update: I've now added ability to change language. Just go to
>> 'Options' (from the extensions page) and enter your language code (hi
>> for hindi, etc). Needs a big UX liftup though.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:21 PM, Yuvi Panda 
>> http://mc/compose?to=yuvipa...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> > I've been working for a few hours on a Chrome extension to add links
>> > to Indic Language Wiki pages when searching in Google. It hooks into
>> > Google's search results, and if it finds an enwiki article (to which a
>> > tawiki interwiki link also exists), it'll display it side by side.
>> > Screenshot here: http://min.us/mbmIeeUOb8y00p#1
>> >
>> > You can test the extension by installing it from here:
>> >
>> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/gpoogepkjnjfmpijnpaocncdjbedaeeo/
>> >
>> > It is open source, and the code is available here:
>> > https://github.com/yuvipanda/yenWikipedia/. You can file issues here
>> > https://github.com/yuvipanda/yenWikipedia/issues/.
>> >
>> > Known issues:
>> > 1. Doesn't work when Google Instant is turned on (turn it off)
>> > 2. Doesn't work for some country specific subdomains (which don't have
>> > /search url part. Current solution: use google.com :P)
>> > 3. Currently hardcoded to display links to tawiki only (Will have to
>> > build an options dialog to support other languages)
>> > 4. Needs a better logo (Help in this department would be highly
>> appreciated :) )
>> >
>> > I think this is one step forward in fixing the search issue -
>> > discovering content in Indic Language wikis is now easier.
>> >
>> > Thanks to Srikanth Lakshmanan for alpha testing.
>> >
>> > Feedback welcome :)
>> >
>> > P.S. I'm also working on a Firefox version of this addon. Stay tuned :)
>> >
>> > --
>> > Yuvi Panda T
>> > http://yuvi.in/blog
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Yuvi Panda T
>> http://yuvi.in/blog
>>
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[Wikimediaindia-l] [OT] Help needed with translation/gist of Government document: Marathi->English

[Vickram Crishna]

Apologies for completely OT post.

I have a document in Marathi, from the Gazette of the GoM. Unfortunately, it
is a scan of a paper doc, hence it is not possible to reproduce any text
here. I can forward the document to anyone who can help translate it. The
complete document is quite lengthy, about 18 pp, but the relevant text is
4.5 pages (the rest are tables etc).

I need a translation in English, for a meeting scheduled for Monday evening,
which is being held with a view to filing a PIL against the contents of this
government resolution (which purportedly makes it compulsory for state
government employees to register with UIDAI and take a UID, in order to draw
their salaries). Assistance would be very much appreciated.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Advice & Help Sought: Potential Additions to the Community

[Vickram Crishna]

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Hisham Mundol wrote:

> Hi All (cross-posting to make sure I reach as much of India as possible),
>
> As you're aware, we had invited applications for Campus Ambassadors for the
> upcoming Pune Pilot of the India Campus Program.
>
> The response has been fantastic: we've received ~500 applications/enquiries
> from across India, ~70 of which were from Pune.  This has been really
> heartening - indicating the desire of many to support the Wikimedia
> movement. It's also been overwhelming because we need to process all the
> applications, respond to applicants, etc.!
>

> I think, most critically, it also presents an amazing opportunity for us to
> introduce new people to Wikimedia projects (especially Wikipedia) - and
> invite them to join the community.I've interviewed quite a few and there
> is a recurring theme I hear from many of them.  It goes something like,
> "I've been using Wikipedia for years and years, and I love it.  I want to
> contribute back to it - but I wasn't sure how.  Then I saw the banner and
> decided this was a great way to help."  The overwhelming common trait I have
> noticed in the applicants is that they are bright, well-intentioned and
> eager to contribute.
>
>
I personally would like to see the nomenclature change: from 'campus
ambassadors' etc to 'Knowledge Facilitators', befitting by far two goals.
One is the democratisation of knowledge, core to this initiative, and the
other is the recognition of anyone of any age as a contributor (implicit in
Hisham's characterisation of 'no-one left behind').


>
> i) they could form student clubs in their respective educational
> establishments
> ii) they could form Wikipedia clubs in their workplaces/social groups (as a
> number of applicants are working professionals, and no longer on campus)
> iii) they could become individual editors
>

Each community, be it one based on educational establishments or any other,
could organise informal camps, which we could call wikiups, implying a
quickly put together 'camp', where a tiny group, 3 or 4 persons, could
collaborate on original contributions or editing. If such meetings could be
held on a weekly basis, then perhaps they could alternate between writing
and editing, to give each skill a good workout. I am emphasising the
importance of working in groups as a way forward from a concern expressed
some months back in our meeting in Mumbai, that many youngsters need a
helping hand to overcome the fear of failure - that translates into a
reluctance to take part - that is unfortunately instilled in much of our
school system.

Frequent regular meetings would also help build an impetus to attend some of
the additional work-focused suggestions, attending an 'Academy' session or
running 'incubation' programs. It would also lessen the disadvantage of not
being able to make it to some infrequently held local Wiki-meetups. It also
lends itself to the ease of adding a visiting 'trainer' who can create
lively sessions of tips and tricks.

>
>
>

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Administrative maps of India and states.

[Vickram Crishna]

Broadly speaking, any data collected with the use of public funds cannot be
restricted for use from any member of the public.

Having said that, even copyrighted information may be free to use, after all
that is precisely what copyleft is. However, the use of copyleft is not
commonly applied to textual information other than manuals attached to or
related to copylefted software.

Given the lack of public discourse in the area of copyleft in India, I have
my doubts that the census data is copylefted. However, more information is
needed. Mere mention of copyright is insufficient to prevent its lawful use
and reuse for the public weal, without specifying the restrictions implicit
or explicit in the specific license.

If any government body objects to the use of census data for any purpose
relating to the public weal, I believe that there will be a strong case for
legal strictures against the Census of India.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:11 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

> Census website says :
> "Material on this site subject to copyright unless otherwise indicated."
>
> I am particularly curious on how we would be able to use data from census
> website. I used 2001 census data as input data for my Indian villages pilot
> project on en.wiki. I was waiting for 2011 census data for further work
> which would be more updated and correct information. But the site says it is
> still copyrighted.
>
> Any legal experts?
>
> -TC
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Naveen Francis  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> New maps for respective states can be created with following base.
>>
>> *Census Maps*
>> http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011census/maps/maps2011.html
>>
>> http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011census/maps/administrative_maps/admmaps2011.html
>>
>>
>> Kerala administrative maps already created by 
>> Rajeshodayanchalas 
>> part of Malayalam
>> Wikipedia Map 
>> Project
>> .
>> Please help us to translate the map to other indic languages via following
>> tool  http://toolserver.org/~jarry/svgtranslate/
>>
>>
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kerala-administrative-divisions-map-ml.svg
>> (Kerala administrative maps in ml)
>>
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kerala-administrative-divisions-map-en.svg
>> (Kerala administrative maps in en)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Naveen Francis
>>
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>


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Administrative maps of India and states.

[Vickram Crishna]

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Gautam John wrote:

> Sadly, the issue of Government copyright exists and is real. There is no
> getting around it.
>
> OK. No offense taken. Your legal grounding is well established, as we all
know.

Can anyone please point me to the relevant link (for the census data,
because the Census Authority is distinctly constituted at arm's length from
the Government of India)? I would like to review the pertinent restrictions,
for this list.

It may also make for an interesting Wikipedia page, I think, or additions to
an existing page, on the copyrightability of public information.

On 7 June 2011 23:22, Vickram Crishna  wrote:
> > If any government body objects to the use of census data for any purpose
> > relating to the public weal, I believe that there will be a strong case
> for
> > legal strictures against the Census of India.
> > On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:11 PM, CherianTinu Abraham <
> tinucher...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Census website says :
> >> "Material on this site subject to copyright unless otherwise indicated."
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Naveen Francis 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> New maps for respective states can be created with following base.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Administrative maps of India and states.

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Gautam John  wrote:

> On 8 June 2011 01:03, Vickram Crishna  wrote:
>
> My reading is that the Census Authority is very much a part of
> government. A question that I have been thinking about is whether
> census data (in the raw form and not the presentation) is capable of
> being copyrighted.
>
>
Aside from the supposition that the raw data is not in fact copyrightable in
the first place, which is probably true, even if never tested, the law
clearly provides for grant of permission for data to be represented in
another form, such as sound or visual forms. It seems clear that the
provisions of copyright (the sections are too tediously long and legally
worded to reproduce here) are precisely applicable only to the form in which
the information is presented by the author(s). Moreover, if the presentation
of census data as published by the CA is in fact taken to be a design form
as defined by the Design Act 1911 (but to be frank I haven't looked at what
that creature is), then the copyright ceases as soon as 50 copies are
circulated, which has obviously already happened if the data is online.

I believe that mapped data represents precisely such alternate forms,
especially if it is dynamically presented (but even if it is not). Making it
dynamic is of course a highly useful form, one that I do not believe the
census authority has yet conceived. The census authority cannot refuse
permission for such presentation. If they do not publish the information as
is planned by our colleagues, then their copyright effectively lapses in any
case, for which proof an advertisement saying that (ie that no mapped data
as has been proposed has been published) must be published in a popular
newspaper (in English newspaper, for English language mapping, vernacular
for vernacular mapping). Unfortunately, it says nothing (that I can find)
about a public announcement on the Net, so maybe this advertisement stuff in
newspapers is the only path.

It seems that one must apply in the prescribed form for licensing
permission, but also note that it is not possible to refuse permission for
such applications, if the end use is scientific research or educational, and
also for non-commercial purposes, provided the end use is in the form of a
translation. However, this permission is only automatic after 3 and 7 years
(subject to relevant conditions) from the date of first publication. Even
here, I put it that the date of first publication is the date when the first
Census was published, and not the current census. I think that would take it
back to the early 20th century, and perhaps that might also mean that the
government does not (heh, heh) in fact have the right to exclusive copyright
of census data (even for the 'upgraded' 60 year copyright).

The relevant clauses are:

1. Specificity: Sec 14
2. Design: Sec 15(2)
3. Government ownership: Sec 17(d) and (dd)
4. Compulsory licensing: Sec 31 (note that the RoC may assign some copyright
fee payable to the government, but prima facie it is unlikely they will do
so in this case)
5. Automatic permission for translations etc: Sec 32 (sec 5(b) specifically
provides for 'broadcasting')
6. Automatic permission for technical stuff: Sec 32A
7. Right to broadcast: Sec 37 (worth checking!)
8. Automatic visual recording for teaching: Sec 39
9. Possible challenge to government copyright of census data: Sec 44
(register of copyrights: quite possible that the census information has not
been registered under the Act, and if so makes it impossible for the
government to take action against any form of infringement - sec 50A
provides for publication of registrations in the Gazette)
10. Fair use: Sec 52 a(i) etc

-- 
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Administrative maps of India and states.

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Gautam John wrote:

> Vickram, in my opinion and that of a friend, asking for a voluntary
> license (18,19,30A) along with the fact that it is a transformative
> use is probably the best bet. If not, fair dealing but that does leave
> us open to a legal challenge. Aside from this, there is the issue that
> even if we did get a license, we then do not have the ability to
> re-license it out under a CC-BY-SA license as required by Wikipedia
> and that would also run afoul of the fair dealing clause.
>

Yes, I also thought of that. It does suppose that we have to define what
precisely is meant by 'owned by the Government' mean, in terms of whether
the Government actually owns anything rather than hold it in trust for us,
which is probably not precisely the same as is meant to be covered under the
Wikipedia freedom license.

Srikanth asks how raw data can be copyrighted. That is probably a better
starting point.

It seems to me that forms uploaded to Wikipedia fulfil the definition of
'authorship' [2(d(vi)], hence the Government cannot claim prior copyright in
the first place. All we would be doing in this case is creating artistic
forms that use data that is uncopyrightable, just as we are always free to
use the letters of the alphabet, and the colours of the spectrum, in
creating a map.

Also, wrt infringement, in 2(m) and 2(n) it is not clear to me that creation
of a new depiction transgresses in any way the protection afforded to an
original database. I do not think that the maps per se result in an
independent distribution of the database itself*. Wikipedia must not
reproduce (except as covered by 'fair dealing') any of the depictions used
by the Government. For original depictions, ie maps created by the team, on
the contrary, it will be the Government infringing on Wikipedia's license,
if it then uses (ie not 'fair dealing') any of the map forms on Wikipedia.


*It is important, therefore, that the maps, even if depicted dynamically, do
not result in being able to extract the database itself. I know this might
contradict my previous stand that a temporally dynamic map would be very
valuable, and probably much more useful than the CA website, in some
circumstances, but perhaps some care could be taken to prevent reverse
analysis of the map.

Finally, I think we can perhaps look at Sec 17 (d) and (dd), as to whether
data gathered by the Government constitutes a copyrightable work. I rather
think that only the 'forms' in which that data is displayed/published can be
considered a copyrightable work under the Act, and not the work undertaken
in gathering the data. When you read the sections relating to architectural
works, it seems very clear that only the finished artistic form can be
copyrighted.

I was thinking (as a last resort) of a public challenge (again, something
that only the WMI chapter might choose to consider) of the implicit
assumption that publicly paid for works can be 'privately' copyrighted by
the Government, but really, I think we do not even need to go there. Since
it has already been published, I cannot see anything else fundamentally
wrong with the claimed copyright that Abhilash quoted, but I put it that it
does not and cannot mean that creating maps independently on Wikipedia,
using the same data in whole or in combination with other data, can be
considered an infringement.


>
> Thank you.
>
> Best,
>
> Gautam
> 
> http://social.prathambooks.org/
>
>
>
>
> On 8 June 2011 05:17, Vickram Crishna  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Gautam John 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 8 June 2011 01:03, Vickram Crishna  wrote:
> >>
> >> My reading is that the Census Authority is very much a part of
> >> government. A question that I have been thinking about is whether
> >> census data (in the raw form and not the presentation) is capable of
> >> being copyrighted.
> >>
> >
> > Aside from the supposition that the raw data is not in fact copyrightable
> in
> > the first place, which is probably true, even if never tested, the law
> > clearly provides for grant of permission for data to be represented in
> > another form, such as sound or visual forms. It seems clear that the
> > provisions of copyright (the sections are too tediously long and legally
> > worded to reproduce here) are precisely applicable only to the form in
> which
> > the information is presented by the author(s). Moreover, if the
> presentation
> > of census data as published by the CA is in fact taken to be a design
> form
> > as defined by the Design Act 1911 (but to be frank I haven't looked at
> what
> > that creature is), then the copyright ceases as soon as 50 copies are
&g

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Administrative maps of India and states.

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Gautam John  wrote:

> So here's an idea.
>
> The Government has promised some open data and maps next month:
>
>
> http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-06-04/news/29620789_1_national-data-spatial-data-access
>
> Maybe, what we can all do, is to collect examples of how and where openly
> licensed content helps and we can build a case and see if and how we need to
> use it once they announce this?
>

Ummm... this is a positive move.

Of course it might be easier to collect examples of how closed licensed
content helps the common weal. We may be able to find an example, maybe even
two, probably in an out-of-print book, or perhaps a 2,000 year old parchment
scroll. :-) If we go back farther, then we just get stuck again in open
licensed content, such as Ashoka's edicts.

>
>
> --
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Community-Chapter Relations

[Vickram Crishna]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 11:03 PM, mayur  wrote:

> Hi,
> I think India chapter should support Mumbai/Pune community, Both these
> community have worked hard and seeking Chapter Support. This is a good time
> to take good intiative by India Chapter.
>
> Regards
> Mayur
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Pradeep Mohandas <
> pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> Just a clarification, since I was a little flustered while writing this -
>>
>> On 9 June 2011 22:46, Pradeep Mohandas wrote:
>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> I agree with points made by User:AroundTheGlobe and Ashwin in the thread.
>>> I think holding a proper discussion on the modalities of the Organising
>>> Committee would ensure that the event will not happen in 2011.
>>>
>>
>> I meant that having a discussion about the structure of the Organising
>> Committee as the Chapter has suggested would ensure that no event will
>> happen in 2011.
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, I am out of the city nearly this entire month, but I have
been following this discussion whenever possible, with quite some dismay.
Agonising, because I look forward to being able to contribute whatever I can
to making the event something which we will all be satisfied, but the
current truth being that I am hamstrung for now.

These does seem to be a huge disconnect between action at an
'organisational' level, and the activities necessary for organising this
event.

But hopefully, the disconnect is largely a communication issue, and not
seminal. Certainly several mails from Chapter workers belie the 'less
sensitive' communications sent earlier, that have rubbed so many of us raw,
and sparked this flaming row.

Let's put that behind us, and let's look at working collaboratively, the
essence of wiki. Deadlines and formats that predetermine deadlines should
play less of a role, especially for these time-sensitive situations. Let's
just do all we can, pulling together to make this event something to look
back happily upon.

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Administrative maps of India and states.

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:16 AM, Abhilash S Unni wrote:

> Does this help.
>
> http://censusindia.gov.in/Footer_Menus/Disclaimer.html
>
> <http://censusindia.gov.in/Footer_Menus/Disclaimer.html>The site mentions
> that
>
> quote
>
> *Copyright:*
>
> Material on this site subject to copyright unless otherwise indicated. The
> material may be downloaded without requiring prior permission. Any other
> proposed use of the material is subject to the approval of ORGI - New Delhi.
> Application for obtaining permission should be made to ORGI, New Delhi
>
> unquote
>

Here's a very interesting point about copyright, that I just read on a
webpage discussing copyright infringements (and claims, in the USA, which is
sure a good place to litigate):

[a valid copyright notice has 3 elements: (1) the rights holder name, (2)
the copyright symbol, and (3) the year of first publication. Using an
copyright notice in an invalid format – such as omitting the year of first
publication – is not recommended]

The page is a blogpost by a photographer about pressing copyright claims in
the USA:
http://www.jeremynicholl.com/blog/2011/06/13/the-10-rules-of-us-copyright-infringement/

In this light, the copyright disclaimer on the Census webpage seems
completely invalid.


>
> Regards
>
> Abhi
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Gautam John wrote:
>
>> On 8 June 2011 01:03, Vickram Crishna  wrote:
>>
>> > OK. No offense taken. Your legal grounding is well established, as we
>> all
>> > know.
>>
>> Oh sorry - none meant! Apologies if it sounded otherwise.
>>
>> > Can anyone please point me to the relevant link (for the census data,
>> > because the Census Authority is distinctly constituted at arm's length
>> from
>> > the Government of India)? I would like to review the pertinent
>> restrictions,
>> > for this list.
>>
>> http://copyright.gov.in/Documents/CopyrightRules1957.pdf
>>
>> 28. Term of copyright in Government work.- In the case of Government
>> work, where Government is the first owner of the copyright therein,
>> copyright shall subsist until [Sixty] years from the beginning of the
>> calendar year next following the year in which the work is first
>> published.
>>
>> Where Government work is defined as:
>>
>> (k) "Government work" means a work which is made or published by or
>> under the direction or control
>> of-
>> (i) the Government or any department of the Government;
>> (ii) any Legislature in India;
>> (iii) any court, tribunal or other judicial authority in India;
>>
>> My reading is that the Census Authority is very much a part of
>> government. A question that I have been thinking about is whether
>> census data (in the raw form and not the presentation) is capable of
>> being copyrighted.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Gautam
>> 
>> http://social.prathambooks.org/
>>
>> ___
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>
>
> ___
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>
>


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Administrative maps of India and states.

[Vickram Crishna]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Gautam John wrote:

> On 15 June 2011 03:38, Vickram Crishna  wrote:
>
> > In this light, the copyright disclaimer on the Census webpage seems
> > completely invalid.
>
> Vickram - good catch but even the lack of a copyright notice does not,
> per se, mean there is no copyright. Copyright is presumed to be
> granted the moment it has been created.
>

Of course, and I am completely in agreement with the sentiments of the
commons group, who evidently do not want to see Wikipedia get caught up in a
series of fruitless litigations across the world.

I was drawing the attention of the list to the fact that the government
people, who claim copyright for everything the government publishes, despite
the fact that some of it is commons, are also ether slipshod in the manner
in which they claim the copyright, or being forthright about the fact that
some of it, possibly the data itself, is not intended to be copyrighted.

Now, the disclaimer wording brought to our attention by Abhilash also
mentions that not everything in the site is copyright, one must look at
individual listings within in order to see if copyright is claimed therein.

Naveen would do well to check that the information he wants to scrape in
order to create his maps is specifically copyrighted, as otherwise it is
clearly free-to-use, and the copyright disclaimer is very specific about
this freedom.

-- 
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: [cultural-partners] Hurtigruta - another strange video project from Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation

[Vickram Crishna]

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Pradeep Mohandas <
pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi,
>
> I understand. But the question is that of access to the driver/guard bogey.
> We can either be there or not be there at all. Another issue is that we can
> use the video during daytime only.
>
> It's an interesting logistical exercise along with having a "free" video
> tape of all of that length of railway line.
>

Quite apart from the permission of the Railway authorities, please be aware
that we, all of us, have a responsibility not to inadvertently record anyone
without their express permission. This may not be expressed explicitly in
legal terms in India, hence may not cross the line being drawn by the
Creative Commons partners, but is nevertheless an important distinction to
be recognised whilst undertaking anything as incredibly scaled up as this.
It could be done, in practical terms, by editing all the footage and
blurring all faces, mostly automatically.

For those who think perhaps this is a sort of googly, please do some reading
on Google Street View, and the judgments of the European Court, aside from
individual countries such as UK and Germany, just for perspective.

I am totally in favour of this project being done, by the way. If enough
people can be found across the country who have time and access to Flips, I
doubt it would be very difficult to carry out, provided the Railways is
willing (and it is not illegal) to allow people in the Guard Bogies. I have
seen Flip night recordings, by the way, and do not think this is a major
impediment either.

With care (for individuals/faces), I think it might even be possible to do
on some city suburban rail lines. It may not require any permissions, if it
is done from passenger carriages. But doing it from the motorman's viewpoint
(definitely needs permission) could create some totally fascinating footage.


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: [cultural-partners] Hurtigruta - another strange video project from Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation

[Vickram Crishna]

I think we have had this discussion just last week, with respect to mapping
data from the census.

It is not a question of what problems the railways could have, or the census
authorities could have. It is simply the intellectual laziness that got them
to declare the information copyrighted for reproduction with permission
only, a loophole that allows any officer to sit on the release. In the case
of the railways, it might be the fear that if they allow free use of such
pictorial data, somebody might raise an objection on security grounds at
some point in the future (never mind that truly dangerous - well,
potentially dangerous, much depends on intent - photographic information can
be gathered at low risk using modern photographic equipment).

I have not checked which Act covers this rail secrecy, but there used to be
notices on every road and rail bridge forbidding photography on grounds of
national security.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
rsrikant...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Shiju, what problem can railways have?
> A station is public property and hence nobody should be able to stop you
> from photographing it. It isn't covered under the Official Secrets Act, is
> it? Besides, if there was a problem, then a HUGE bunch of photographs from
> the Commons shouldn't exist. If it were illegal, how come so many films are
> shot in stations and trains?
> If anybody wants, I can get a sample clip of a road, which can be applied
> to rail as well.
> --Regards,
>
>
>
> On 17 June 2011 17:48, Pradeep Mohandas wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> I think since what we want to do is videotape a railway route, the
>> driver's bogey is more suited to this. I would want to film during day
>> time only under good visibility conditions, where possible.
>>
>> I think we could give the CC-BY-SA license to the Indian Railways.
>>
>> I do not think there'll be too many people to worry about unlike
>> Google Street View.
>>
>> Another interesting project could be trying to film rivers from source
>> to where it meets the sea.
>>
>> It'll also be a way to map a few things.
>>
>> Great points! Never thought this could be such an interesting
>> discussion. Flipcams are great too!
>>
>> Pradeep
>>
>> On 17/06/2011, Vickram Crishna  wrote:
>> > On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Pradeep Mohandas <
>> > pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> hi,
>> >>
>> >> I understand. But the question is that of access to the driver/guard
>> >> bogey.
>> >> We can either be there or not be there at all. Another issue is that we
>> >> can
>> >> use the video during daytime only.
>> >>
>> >> It's an interesting logistical exercise along with having a "free"
>> video
>> >> tape of all of that length of railway line.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Quite apart from the permission of the Railway authorities, please be
>> aware
>> > that we, all of us, have a responsibility not to inadvertently record
>> anyone
>> > without their express permission. This may not be expressed explicitly
>> in
>> > legal terms in India, hence may not cross the line being drawn by the
>> > Creative Commons partners, but is nevertheless an important distinction
>> to
>> > be recognised whilst undertaking anything as incredibly scaled up as
>> this.
>> > It could be done, in practical terms, by editing all the footage and
>> > blurring all faces, mostly automatically.
>> >
>> > For those who think perhaps this is a sort of googly, please do some
>> reading
>> > on Google Street View, and the judgments of the European Court, aside
>> from
>> > individual countries such as UK and Germany, just for perspective.
>> >
>> > I am totally in favour of this project being done, by the way. If enough
>> > people can be found across the country who have time and access to
>> Flips, I
>> > doubt it would be very difficult to carry out, provided the Railways is
>> > willing (and it is not illegal) to allow people in the Guard Bogies. I
>> have
>> > seen Flip night recordings, by the way, and do not think this is a major
>> > impediment either.
>> >
>> > With care (for individuals/faces), I think it might even be possible to
>> do
>> > on some city suburban rail lines. It may not require any permissions, if
>> it
>> > is done from passenger carriages. But doing it from the motorman's
>> viewpoint
>> > (d

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimediaindia-l Digest, Vol 36, Issue 92 (Action Required)

[Vickram Crishna]

Can somebody please set the mailing list to block such messages?

And in turn, can whoever uses services like this please change your settings
to accept mails from the list (we do hope we are /a priori/ a 'priority' for
you)? Although, of course, you won't see this message. As the subject line
suggests, you need to take action.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:11 PM,  wrote:

>   Dear sender,
>
> This message serves as notification that you will not receive any more
> courtesy notices from Boxbe members for two days. Messages you have sent
> will remain in a lower priority queue for our member to review at their
> leisure.
>
> Future messages will be more likely to be viewed if you are on our member's
> priority Guest List.
>


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