Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
WE are happy with SAF, DW and Trango all have diff pricepoints, overall winner on dollar/ value is SAF Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
Hi Gino, what is missing from SAF compared to DW and Trango? I will take a look to the documents, but you know manuals don't tell the whole story ;) Thank you WE are happy with SAF, DW and Trango all have diff pricepoints, overall winner on dollar/ value is SAF Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago. Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the price point. I look at who supplies the outstanding support. I look for the company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link. And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for licensed microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, easy equipment replacement. And most importantly. the sh*t works! I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave radio to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other manufacturers and I have installed a lot of different equipment over the years. -B- On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface. On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com mailto:b...@belwave.com wrote: Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango equipment. We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well support thus far has been great. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com mailto:n...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that. .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of performance, And management. Nick Olsen Network Operations (855) FLSPEED x106 http://www.flhsi.com/files/emaillogo.jpg _ From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net mailto:d...@mvn.net Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt lm7...@gmail.com mailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's software), do something like 300Mbps. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
I'm not sure of it's complete specifications, but Proxim just came out with a licensed product. GX800, I believe. I forget which booth I was at (MoonBlink, maybe) where they told me that the Proxim is about the same price point as the other licensed products out there, only there are no license keys. It comes full speed (311 each direction) out of the box. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 11/4/2010 4:20 PM, Matt wrote: We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
Sounds like a side lobe...we had the same issue...link was coming in at -70...link budget said -50...finally got it out of the side lobe and within 1-2 dB of the link path. Regards, Chuck On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bill Gaylord bi...@torchlake.com wrote: I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
15-20db off typically means cross polarization. Have you double and triple checked they are both on the same polarity? Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bill Gaylord Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
That was my next reply to Josh.what series or model of Ceragon has he used. All our Ceragon links have been the older Fibeair 1500 series. There were a few re-branded versions of this radio for Nortel and maybe another name too. I think even Lockheed or General Dynamics had these relabeled under their name. Agreed, while price is always important we feel a solid product with good support is paramount. While Trango may have had some early firmware issues they have been responsive and resolved any issues that resulted in a down link situation. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 7:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago. Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the price point. I look at who supplies the outstanding support. I look for the company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link. And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for licensed microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, easy equipment replacement. And most importantly. the sh*t works! I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave radio to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other manufacturers and I have installed a lot of different equipment over the years. -B- On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface. On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times we've needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We'll be hanging three more Trango Giga's Apex's in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango equipment. We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well support thus far has been great. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that. .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of performance, And management. Nick Olsen Network Operations (855) FLSPEED x106 http://www.flhsi.com/files/emaillogo.jpg _ From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's software), do something like 300Mbps. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
Are you at full tx power or full modulation? 256qam will take out something like 7dbm. On Nov 5, 2010 9:12 AM, Bill Gaylord bi...@torchlake.com wrote: I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
I can't memorize the weird model numbers. It was installed probably 5 or 6 years ago. It had an arp bug they took at year and two on site trips to fix. I could recognize them if you had pictures. On Nov 5, 2010 9:39 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: That was my next reply to Josh.what series or model of Ceragon has he used. All our Ceragon links have been the older Fibeair 1500 series. There were a few re-branded versions of this radio for Nortel and maybe another name too. I think even Lockheed or General Dynamics had these relabeled under their name. Agreed, while price is always important we feel a solid product with good support is paramount. While Trango may have had some early firmware issues they have been responsive and resolved any issues that resulted in a down link situation. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 7:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago. Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the price point. I look at who supplies the outstanding support. I look for the company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link. And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for licensed microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, easy equipment replacement. And most importantly. the sh*t works! I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave radio to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other manufacturers and I have installed a lot of different equipment over the years. -B- On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface. On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times we've needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We'll be hanging three more Trango Giga's Apex's in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango equipment. We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well support thus far has been great. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that. .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of performance, And management. Nick Olsen Network Operations (855) FLSPEED x106 http://www.flhsi.com/files/emaillogo.jpg _ From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's software), do something like 300Mbps. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
Yes, I have. Thanks. That is the same thing I had though of the first time around. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. On 11/5/2010 9:38 AM, Brad Belton wrote: 15-20db off typically means cross polarization. Have you double and triple checked they are both on the same polarity? Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bill Gaylord Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
OK, I will try the Vertical Alignment again to see if it is on a vertical side lobe. I will give that a try next week and see what happens. Thanks. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. On 11/5/2010 9:37 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: Sounds like a side lobe...we had the same issue...link was coming in at -70...link budget said -50...finally got it out of the side lobe and within 1-2 dB of the link path. Regards, Chuck On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bill Gaylordbi...@torchlake.com wrote: I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
I'll hazard a guess here that Radwin was OEMing boxes from Ceragon at the time then. That's like me complaining about Redline if I had problems with Alvarion's old Link Blaster, which was an OEM'd Redline point-to-point product. If I bought it from Alvarion and didn't get support, then it's Alvarion's problem, not Redline's. (For the record here, we were perfectly happy with the Link Blaster-just using that as an example). It wouldn't be right or fair for me to sling mud at Redline for it, especially *years* later. We all get a bug up our butts about something or another, but I think its bad practice if nothing else to go out of your way to hurt a company you never even bought anything from (remember, your main problem was with the zero support, which was a Radwin issue, not a Ceragon issue) when those of us who actually have experience buying from the company seem to be quite happy. Either way, your experience was from years ago. We all know companies go through problems at times. If they fix them, great. If not, they'll pay the price in the marketplace. And if you had current, direct experiences to report, that's useful information. But it's worth it to give even companies that have messed up a chance to prove they can fix themselves. I'd defend Redline the same way if the circumstances were similar. Chuck On Nov 5, 2010, at 12:15 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Says Ceragon on the boxes. They appear identical in hardware and software to the Radwins we bought with the company. Just FYI. On Nov 5, 2010 12:03 AM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: To be honest Josh, didn't you tell me your problems were with what was at one time a sister company, Radwin, and not Ceragon? Yet you call the company Ceragon when you've told me it was really Radwin. It really isn't fair to be tarring and feathering Ceragon due to the problems with Radwin-which was years ago and not even the same company. Ceragon products in the licensed sphere are _strictly_ Ceragon designed and manufactured (I followed up on this the last time you were panning Ceragon so I could independently understand the situation). They are not even OEM'd from Radwin. Ceragon is an independent, publicly traded company. It was *started*, years ago by the same investment group that started Radwin. For the record, we've been quite happy with Ceragon's products. The interface hasn't been a problem, but like Brad, I believe we tend to use the telnet interface. I've also been happy with Alvarion and Ubiquity in the unlicensed space. I have no personal interest in any of these companies, but don't think it's fair to malign a manufacturer when you don't actually have any experience with them as far as I can tell. When you did have problems it was with a related company, not this company, it was years ago (things DO change), and this company at least is no longer even a sister company (in the sense at least that it is now publicly traded). Chuck On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface. On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango equipment. We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well support thus far has been great. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that. .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of performance, And management. Nick Olsen Network Operations (855) FLSPEED x106 http://www.flhsi.com/files/emaillogo.jpg _ From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
Bill You can bang the physical dish up pretty good and not need to worry. The feedhorn is the most critical unit. Which Dragonwave radio are you using? Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless -Original message- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Fri, Nov 5, 2010 13:38:55 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice 15-20db off typically means cross polarization. Have you double and triple checked they are both on the same polarity? Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bill Gaylord Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
About the same pricing, can mean a lot of things. About the same pricing could mean a $1000 difference. With Trango, the upgrade key doesn;t cost much more than that. Allthough always good to see new products entered into the market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops I'm not sure of it's complete specifications, but Proxim just came out with a licensed product. GX800, I believe. I forget which booth I was at (MoonBlink, maybe) where they told me that the Proxim is about the same price point as the other licensed products out there, only there are no license keys. It comes full speed (311 each direction) out of the box. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 11/4/2010 4:20 PM, Matt wrote: We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
Actually, I feel one of the flaws to the Dragonwave is that their clips to the antenna easilly can break if not careful when connecting them. Trango's are much more durable. (actually I'm not talking about the clips, but the metal-like part that the clips grab). On Andrews these parts are on the antenna side, on Trango they are on the radio side. You can however, buy a replacement plate for the antenna, if they break. But with that said, my 23Ghz Dragonwave Horizon link has been wonderful, I've never touched it since the day installed, works perfrect. My 24Gzh dragonwave on the other hand, has been a bit more temporamental. I've never gotten full RSSI out of it that path calcs show I should, so run at 50mb instead of 100mb to get quality link, and I have to reboot it every 6 months or so, when it stops passing traffic. We stopped investigating why at somepoint, because it was good enough for the application. I'm not meaning to bash DW 24Ghz, I've just used one link, so it could be an isolated case. Not enough links to have large enough sampling, to ahve a valid opinion. (note, I'm aware polarity orientation gets reverse on the opposite side with the DW 24G model) Personally, I think the relationship factor is becomming a bigger factor to what product to buy. I think its important to buy Licensed products from a supplier that you have a good relationship with, and what they stock more of. When in a bind, who's gonna overnbight you a radio, without charging you inflated list price? (I'll leave it to the buyer, to determine who they have a good relationship with) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago. Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the price point. I look at who supplies the outstanding support. I look for the company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link. And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for licensed microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, easy equipment replacement. And most importantly. the sh*t works! I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave radio to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other manufacturers and I have installed a lot of different equipment over the years. -B- On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface. On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango equipment. We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well support thus far has been great. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that. .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of performance, And management. Nick Olsen Network Operations (855) FLSPEED x106 http://www.flhsi.com/files/emaillogo.jpg _ From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
It is the horizon 150Mbps. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. On 11/5/2010 12:28 PM, Bob Moldashel wrote: Bill You can bang the physical dish up pretty good and not need to worry. The feedhorn is the most critical unit. Which Dragonwave radio are you using? /Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless/ -Original message- *From: *Brad Belton b...@belwave.com* To: *'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org* Sent: *Fri, Nov 5, 2010 13:38:55 GMT+00:00* Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice 15-20db off typically means cross polarization. Have you double and triple checked they are both on the same polarity? Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bill Gaylord Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
My opinion is that the dish damage probably would not cause much RSSI loss. (unless severe, but if it was severe I'm sure you never would ahve installed it). If part of the dish was bent, you'd need to determine what percentage of teh surface area was effected not reflecting to the correct point. Most likely antenna is not the problem. Wireless links need to be aligned both Horizontally and Vertically. If you did not fine tune alignment vertically on both sides, you need to. Sometimes it takes doing it twice on one side, such as A, then B, then A, to get a good alignment. Also, I did not catch whether you were using Coax SPlit archetecture model or Ethernet Integrated model. If Coax model, a bad connector crimp can easilly cause a 10db RSSI degregation. Never trust a connector just by Visual inspection, if you are not getting correct RSSI. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bill Gaylord bi...@torchlake.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice
No Coax, the radio mounts directly to the antenna. I will climb myself and re-peak the vertical alignment Monday. Thanks Tom. Bill On 11/5/2010 1:25 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: My opinion is that the dish damage probably would not cause much RSSI loss. (unless severe, but if it was severe I'm sure you never would ahve installed it). If part of the dish was bent, you'd need to determine what percentage of teh surface area was effected not reflecting to the correct point. Most likely antenna is not the problem. Wireless links need to be aligned both Horizontally and Vertically. If you did not fine tune alignment vertically on both sides, you need to. Sometimes it takes doing it twice on one side, such as A, then B, then A, to get a good alignment. Also, I did not catch whether you were using Coax SPlit archetecture model or Ethernet Integrated model. If Coax model, a bad connector crimp can easilly cause a 10db RSSI degregation. Never trust a connector just by Visual inspection, if you are not getting correct RSSI. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bill Gaylordbi...@torchlake.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Link Issues, Need Advice I have a Dragonwave link that was performing about 35-40db lower than the link budget says it should. I sent tower climbers up to repeak the link and found they did have it on aligned on a horizontal side lobe. After re-peaking it got better, but is now about 15-20db lower than the link budget. It is running about a -52 and the budget calls for a -34. They did peak the vertical axis, but is it possible that even though both antennas were mounted plum, that they are aligned on a vertical side lobe. Like I said, they did say they peaked the vertical, but I don't know if they did a proper sweep on the vertical because it is not a quick to do as on the horizontal. They are both plum, but the antennas have about 300ft of vertical separation at 5 miles. Would difference in height put them in into a vertical side lobe? I am asking because the 30in antenna's had come slightly damaged, but it appeared to just be where the raydom attached to the dish. Dragonwave did not think this would cause an issue. I just need to know if I need to pay for 2 more tower climbs to re-peak the vertical, or take down the dishes to return them. Thank you in advance for any advice that can be given here. By the way, it is our first licensed link, so it is my first experience with anything above 5ghz. Bill Gaylord, President COLI Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
They've released several new firmware upgrades in the last 1-2 years, and support AAM (that actually works) and hitless-AAM now. HAAM has been great for us with the occasional ducting we get in the valley. I can deal with it dropping from 280MBps to 110Mbps at 6am rather than dropping the link completely. The upgrade is a bit complicated, so I'd suggest calling DW before the upgrade and carefully reading the release notes. They've been very helpful every time I've called/emailed. I have a version-by-version outline too, if you're interested. -Kristian On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 13:15 -0400, Tom DeReggi wrote: Actually, I feel one of the flaws to the Dragonwave is that their clips to the antenna easilly can break if not careful when connecting them. Trango's are much more durable. (actually I'm not talking about the clips, but the metal-like part that the clips grab). On Andrews these parts are on the antenna side, on Trango they are on the radio side. You can however, buy a replacement plate for the antenna, if they break. But with that said, my 23Ghz Dragonwave Horizon link has been wonderful, I've never touched it since the day installed, works perfrect. My 24Gzh dragonwave on the other hand, has been a bit more temporamental. I've never gotten full RSSI out of it that path calcs show I should, so run at 50mb instead of 100mb to get quality link, and I have to reboot it every 6 months or so, when it stops passing traffic. We stopped investigating why at somepoint, because it was good enough for the application. I'm not meaning to bash DW 24Ghz, I've just used one link, so it could be an isolated case. Not enough links to have large enough sampling, to ahve a valid opinion. (note, I'm aware polarity orientation gets reverse on the opposite side with the DW 24G model) Personally, I think the relationship factor is becomming a bigger factor to what product to buy. I think its important to buy Licensed products from a supplier that you have a good relationship with, and what they stock more of. When in a bind, who's gonna overnbight you a radio, without charging you inflated list price? (I'll leave it to the buyer, to determine who they have a good relationship with) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago. Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the price point. I look at who supplies the outstanding support. I look for the company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link. And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for licensed microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple interface, easy equipment replacement. And most importantly. the sh*t works! I can't remember EVER needing to do a firmware upgrade on a Dragonwave radio to make it work right. I can't say that for many of the other manufacturers and I have installed a lot of different equipment over the years. -B- On 11/4/2010 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface. On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango equipment. We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites. Best, Brad
Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v
The key to this thread is NS2 - Not NSM2 They are different and the power supplies they can operate of are also different... some NS2's will not work with 24v. Just fyi... Scott Carullo Technical Operations 855-FLSPEED x102 From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:27 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v Well, considering it ships with 24V UBNT PS, yes it supports 24V Should use regulated PS, to make sure stays under 25V. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
Trango does what now too? Scott Carullo Technical Operations 855-FLSPEED x102 From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Trango also does that now to. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Alan Bryant a...@gtekcommunications.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We have been using one Dragonwave 11 ghz link with absolutely no problems. It is about 7 miles. We are putting up two Nera 11 ghz links right now. One is about 17 miles, the other about 10 miles. So far the support from Nera is not the greatest. On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Alan Bryant Gtek Computers Wireless L.L.C. Office: 361-777-1400 | Fax: 361-777-1405 a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication (including any attachments) may contain privileged or confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this communication and/or shred the materials and any attachments and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this communication, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
If you want to leverage dual pol with XPIC you could look at Dragonwave quantum. On 11/04/2010 02:20 PM, Matt wrote: We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Friday Funny
This must be strange propagation month. We've got a new installer who put a 900 MHz canopy with a yagi pointing to the south side of one of our towers 6 miles away. He gets a 56 signal, but it's really unreliable for some reason. He goes out there again to re-sight, same issues after a couple of days. I happen to look at the map for this customer. Whoa He is being shot to the BACK SIDE of a motorola 60° panel 900 MHz AP. 56 Signal from 6 miles away 180° out This 900 is there for spot application only. Never intended for over 3 mile shots, especially in the opposite direction! I need a beer. -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear? Is it pretty good gear? Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both polarities for additional bandwidth? Can both polarities be done on the same channel? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Friday Funny
900 is Voodoo -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 13:57:55 -0500 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org, motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] Friday Funny This must be strange propagation month. We've got a new installer who put a 900 MHz canopy with a yagi pointing to the south side of one of our towers 6 miles away. He gets a 56 signal, but it's really unreliable for some reason. He goes out there again to re-sight, same issues after a couple of days. I happen to look at the map for this customer. Whoa He is being shot to the BACK SIDE of a motorola 60° panel 900 MHz AP. 56 Signal from 6 miles away 180° out This 900 is there for spot application only. Never intended for over 3 mile shots, especially in the opposite direction! I need a beer. -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear. I know that your PCN strictly states V or H. The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full duplex. Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear? Is it pretty good gear? Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both polarities for additional bandwidth? Can both polarities be done on the same channel? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
I was refering to the Trango having a Combiner option now, that allowed two Apexes to share one antenna via 1 horiz and 1 V pol. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Carullo To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Trango does what now too? Scott Carullo Technical Operations 855-FLSPEED x102 -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Trango also does that now to. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Alan Bryant a...@gtekcommunications.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We have been using one Dragonwave 11 ghz link with absolutely no problems. It is about 7 miles. We are putting up two Nera 11 ghz links right now. One is about 17 miles, the other about 10 miles. So far the support from Nera is not the greatest. On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput. We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Alan Bryant Gtek Computers Wireless L.L.C. Office: 361-777-1400 | Fax: 361-777-1405 a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication (including any attachments) may contain privileged or confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this communication and/or shred the materials and any attachments and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this communication, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
You coordinate two paths. We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end. One radio set is V the other is H. Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for higher overall availability. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear. I know that your PCN strictly states V or H. The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full duplex. Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear? Is it pretty good gear? Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both polarities for additional bandwidth? Can both polarities be done on the same channel? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
There was interest in the upgrade outline, so here it is. This was for a 11GHz Horizon Compact, but I think the process is the same for 18GHz as well. Please also read the release notes for yourself. It worked for me, but buyer beware. If you're running pre 1.01.00, the process to get up to that version is equally sensitive. I was told that there was a bug in the older version that caused new firmware to be written incorrectly in certain cases, thus the need for certain interim versions and precautions, and that after 1.03.x or so that it wasn't as precarious. Also, if you do manage to brick a unit, you can use their Merlin utility to reflash the ODU with a laptop directly plugged in. I had the files on a private FTP server with each step in a different subdirectory to reduce the change of loading the wrong version on accident. SW upgrade procedure for systems with 1.01.00 to 1.01.3 omni: Step 1: Download release 1.01.32 omni, disable AAM (if already enabled), reset system. - set aam off copy ftp: /pub/step1/omni_1.01.32.hex save mib reset system Step 2: Download release 1.03.00 omni, and 1.02.02 mdmOmni, and reset system. - copy ftp: /pub/step2/omni_hc_1.03.00.hex copy ftp: /pub/step2/mdmOmni_hc_1.02.02.hex save mib reset system Step 3: Download release 2.xx.xx frequency file and reset system. copy ftp: /pub/step3/frequency_hc_... save mib reset system Step 4: Download release 1.04.00 omni, and 1.04.14 mdmOmni, and reset system. - copy ftp: /pub/step4/omni_hc_1.04.00.hex copy ftp: /pub/step4/mdmOmni_hc_1.04.14.hex save mib reset system Step 5: Down load release 2.xx.xx frequency file and reset system. Enable AAM if required. - copy ftp: /pub/step5/frequency_hc_... save mib reset system -Kristian On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 11:15 -0700, Kristian Hoffmann wrote: They've released several new firmware upgrades in the last 1-2 years, and support AAM (that actually works) and hitless-AAM now. HAAM has been great for us with the occasional ducting we get in the valley. I can deal with it dropping from 280MBps to 110Mbps at 6am rather than dropping the link completely. The upgrade is a bit complicated, so I'd suggest calling DW before the upgrade and carefully reading the release notes. They've been very helpful every time I've called/emailed. I have a version-by-version outline too, if you're interested. -Kristian On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 13:15 -0400, Tom DeReggi wrote: Actually, I feel one of the flaws to the Dragonwave is that their clips to the antenna easilly can break if not careful when connecting them. Trango's are much more durable. (actually I'm not talking about the clips, but the metal-like part that the clips grab). On Andrews these parts are on the antenna side, on Trango they are on the radio side. You can however, buy a replacement plate for the antenna, if they break. But with that said, my 23Ghz Dragonwave Horizon link has been wonderful, I've never touched it since the day installed, works perfrect. My 24Gzh dragonwave on the other hand, has been a bit more temporamental. I've never gotten full RSSI out of it that path calcs show I should, so run at 50mb instead of 100mb to get quality link, and I have to reboot it every 6 months or so, when it stops passing traffic. We stopped investigating why at somepoint, because it was good enough for the application. I'm not meaning to bash DW 24Ghz, I've just used one link, so it could be an isolated case. Not enough links to have large enough sampling, to ahve a valid opinion. (note, I'm aware polarity orientation gets reverse on the opposite side with the DW 24G model) Personally, I think the relationship factor is becomming a bigger factor to what product to buy. I think its important to buy Licensed products from a supplier that you have a good relationship with, and what they stock more of. When in a bind, who's gonna overnbight you a radio, without charging you inflated list price? (I'll leave it to the buyer, to determine who they have a good relationship with) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Ceragon today is NOT the same Ceragon it was 3 years ago. Unlike many here when it comes to choosing equipment I don't chase the price point. I look at who supplies the outstanding support. I look for the company that has my back when I am up against the wall with a dead link. And until someone can blow away their delivery schedule and their technical/customer support, Dragonwave is my company of choice for licensed microwave. Radio clips to the antenna, POE, simple
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
Saf has the option of dual pol combiner as well Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:59 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear? Is it pretty good gear? Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both polarities for additional bandwidth? Can both polarities be done on the same channel? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
Can you use 40Mhz channels with the trangos on 11Ghz for 300Mb throughput? I thought we were limited to 40mhz on our apexes for a ~268max throughput... Scott Carullo Technical Operations 855-FLSPEED x102 From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops You coordinate two paths. We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end. One radio set is V the other is H. Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for higher overall availability. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear. I know that your PCN strictly states V or H. The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full duplex. Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear? Is it pretty good gear? Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both polarities for additional bandwidth? Can both polarities be done on the same channel? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
No, I do not think so. FCC limits 11GHz channel size to 40MHz. However, 165 + 165 = 330, so that gets you beyond 300MB in 6GHz with a combiner and 265 + 265 = 530 in 11GHz with a combiner plate. Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Can you use 40Mhz channels with the trangos on 11Ghz for 300Mb throughput? I thought we were limited to 40mhz on our apexes for a ~268max throughput... Scott Carullo Technical Operations 855-FLSPEED x102 http://www.flhsi.com/files/emaillogo.jpg _ From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops You coordinate two paths. We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end. One radio set is V the other is H. Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for higher overall availability. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear. I know that your PCN strictly states V or H. The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full duplex. Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear? Is it pretty good gear? Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both polarities for additional bandwidth? Can both polarities be done on the same channel? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
Any discussion on best way to combine the two links from the DATA FLOW perspective or TCIP/IP perspective? The average Mikrotik Loadbalancer may not handle that 800mbps link all that well. Are people using Switch level trunk aggregation, or layer3 aggregation methods? OR just running two seperate logical link, and putting different traffic on different routers/links? There can be issues with combining at LAyer2, because often two wireless links dont operate at exactly teh same speed due to slightly different link qualities (packetloss) or SNRs. I'm assuming most would want to use a session bases method that would dynamically assign a specific session to a single link, which would require a high layer load balancing option. We are familiar with most of the load balancing methods, jsut wondering what others are choosing for combining two licensed 300-400mb links, and which hardware (switch or router) they are using to accomplish it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Belton To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops You coordinate two paths. We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end. One radio set is V the other is H. Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for higher overall availability. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear. I know that your PCN strictly states V or H. The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full duplex. Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear? Is it pretty good gear? Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both polarities for additional bandwidth? Can both polarities be done on the same channel? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: Licensed 11ghz Hops
Brad is correct. 40Mhz max, due to FCC regs in 11Ghz. Note, some LIcensed 11Ghz gear is capable to be configured to 56Mhz channels sizes because some other countries's regulatory bodies allow 56Mhz channels. For example, I'm pretty sure England does. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Belton To: sc...@brevardwireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 4:45 PM Subject: [Spam] Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops No, I do not think so. FCC limits 11GHz channel size to 40MHz. However, 165 + 165 = 330, so that gets you beyond 300MB in 6GHz with a combiner and 265 + 265 = 530 in 11GHz with a combiner plate. Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Can you use 40Mhz channels with the trangos on 11Ghz for 300Mb throughput? I thought we were limited to 40mhz on our apexes for a ~268max throughput... Scott Carullo Technical Operations 855-FLSPEED x102 -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops You coordinate two paths. We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using two radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each end. One radio set is V the other is H. Gives us twice the capacity (165MB x 2) plus failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus Frequency diversity for higher overall availability. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear. I know that your PCN strictly states V or H. The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get full duplex. Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear? Is it pretty good gear? Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both polarities for additional bandwidth? Can both polarities be done on the same channel? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Systems Management - Process
This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think... I just had a long meeting with our general manager about Systems Management (monitoring, documenting, updating, etc) Let me explain... We ALL have systems to 1. monitor our network 2. document our systems (IP addresses, equipment type, etc) 3. document our IP usage (subnets, routing, etc) We probably all have this information in different places. As our networks and number of devices grow these systems can get out-of-hand and OUT-OF SYNC with each other! Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these systems get updated when components on our networks are added/removed/replaced/changed. For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information about that new customer goes into: - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled correctly, correct price, contract signed stored, etc) - nagios (to monitor) - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs) - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we have to go out there again) - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable Then if that customer cancels... - remove from billing - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring) - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP) - remove equipment documentation Or if that customer has to change towers on our network... - change monitored IP address - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP) - change equipment documentation (if necessary) - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down... - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using manual re-routing, not autmatic) - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios Parents so that devices that are behind a Down device is not Down itself, just Unreachable - saves the inbox from getting blasted if a backhaul goes down - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul Then you get it back up and you have to change these things back. My point of all of this is that there are a TON of details to take care of, and if you try to grow fast you need systems and protocol in place to deal with all of this information. Things get forgotten about, and your system can be a mess before you know it. We have used the method of using checklists for client changes (new customer, repair order, disconnect). We're just now getting into cleaning up our systems documentation on infrastructure components (routers backhauls APs - OH MY!!!). We have alot of information about the initial deployment of infrastructure equipment, but as changes have happened, we have not kept up with it. So we're looking at expanding upon our checklists for when infrastructure components are deployed/changed/removed. We think this will help the chaos. How about you? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread again... The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring, cpe function) and billing in sync. I've not seen multiple applications stay together by human hand. Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it. On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
We have a 2-pronged approach, actually... Tech brings checklist back, someone in office processes it and slaps tech around if not complete or accurate enough to process... :) With the right person in the office, this is just beginning to show signs of progress. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread again... The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring, cpe function) and billing in sync. I've not seen multiple applications stay together by human hand. Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it. On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
My old system of writing it all on the back my business cards and discarded Burger King napkins found on the floor of the van worked for awhile but quickly failed. Napkins sometimes got used for other purposes after they had the information on them so I have a no napkin rule as a result. Paper Plates are a better choice, I found. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread again... The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring, cpe function) and billing in sync. I've not seen multiple applications stay together by human hand. Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it. On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
Yeah, when your goal is 2-3 COMPLETED installs per day, that system quickly gets out of hand ;). Other companies on this list go for far more than me, too. - Original Message - From: Robert West To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process My old system of writing it all on the back my business cards and discarded Burger King napkins found on the floor of the van worked for awhile but quickly failed. Napkins sometimes got used for other purposes after they had the information on them so I have a no napkin rule as a result. Paper Plates are a better choice, I found. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread again... The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring, cpe function) and billing in sync. I've not seen multiple applications stay together by human hand. Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it. On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
Also, we USED to have HUMONGOUS discrepancies in setting speed limits for customers before the traffic management was integrated with the billing system. We use Powercode for this right now. In the beginning, we speed limited people at each AP. The biggest problem then was that people were not limited at all (this happened quite a bit), until I went in and mandated that every AP on our system was pre-populated with a 512k limit for every IP address on its subnet. That did bring up the issue invevitably as people felt their connection was slow. That took a load off of our systems being out of sync with our billing at least, then it was mainly monitoring and keeping track of IP addresses equipment types. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread again... The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring, cpe function) and billing in sync. I've not seen multiple applications stay together by human hand. Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it. On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Juniper M20
I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20. I was looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the type of application I'm looking at. Recommendations\comments? I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out. BGP full routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream. May need one or more 10 GigE port(s). On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware, but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream. I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice. -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Juniper M20
IMO you only go with the M line if you need OC cards. MX80 would be a better fit if you are all ethernet. On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20. I was looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the type of application I'm looking at. Recommendations\comments? I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out. BGP full routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream. May need one or more 10 GigE port(s). On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware, but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream. I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice. -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Juniper M20
How much aggregate throughput are you looking to handle? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20. I was looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the type of application I'm looking at. Recommendations\comments? I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out. BGP full routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream. May need one or more 10 GigE port(s). On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware, but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream. I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice. -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Juniper M20
Somewhere between 1 and 5 gigs. Probably 1 - 2. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 11/5/2010 5:39 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: How much aggregate throughput are you looking to handle? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20. I was looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the type of application I'm looking at. Recommendations\comments? I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out. BGP full routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream. May need one or more 10 GigE port(s). On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware, but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream. I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice. -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Juniper M20
We can help you with that, if you are open to it. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:46 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Somewhere between 1 and 5 gigs. Probably 1 - 2. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 11/5/2010 5:39 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: How much aggregate throughput are you looking to handle? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: I am looking at comments or recommendations for a Juniper M20. I was looking at a PowerRouter 2200 (or equivalent), but someone I'm working with on this project said a Juniper M20 would be a better choice for the type of application I'm looking at. Recommendations\comments? I am looking to put one each in two different carrier hotels, buy some bandwidth (at least a gig of commit) and haul it back out. BGP full routes from a handful of carriers, BGP downstream. May need one or more 10 GigE port(s). On these routers I'm really liking the completely redundant hardware, but would be more than happy to put MT or ImageStream routers downstream. I can Google for places to buy from, but recommendations are always nice. -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:34:01PM -0700, Mark Nash wrote: This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think... Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these systems get updated when components on our networks are added/removed/replaced/changed. That place is the billing system For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information about that new customer goes into: - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled correctly, correct price, contract signed stored, etc) - nagios (to monitor) With the right information in billing, a bit of scripting will automagically keep your Nagios configuration up to date. - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs) Keep this in the billing system. - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we have to go out there again) Keep this in the billing system where your techs can update as needed. - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable You can probably script this from the billing system if it tracks the MAC address of the customer's equipment. Depends on your APs and such. Then if that customer cancels... - remove from billing Mark the account inactive in billing. Keep the data. Database storage is cheap these days. That's probably what you meant... - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring) This automagically happens when your script to automagically update Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive. - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP) Let the billing system mark the IP as inactive when the account is marked inactive. - remove equipment documentation Keep the documentation on the account notes. They may come back. Database storage is cheap these days. Or if that customer has to change towers on our network... Update the billing system. - change monitored IP address Automagically happens on the next Nagios configuration generation run. - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP) Do this through the billing system. - change equipment documentation (if necessary) This is part of updating the billing system, which the on-site tech should do before leaving the customer's site. Updating the billing system while on-site ensures the Tech actually tested the connection by using it. - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable Hopefully you can script this from the billing system. Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down... - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using manual re-routing, not autmatic) Dynamic routing. Manual, ick. - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios Parents so that devices that are behind a Down device is not Down itself, just Unreachable - saves the inbox from getting blasted if a backhaul goes down If there are multiple paths, you can use multiple parents in Nagios. Nagios should do the right thing. We don't use the multiple parents option because it screws up the Map. But if the primary path goes down, the hosts which are still reachable stay up in Nagios. - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul You can create hosts in Nagios for each interface on a router if you want. Then you know when your backup path goes down before the primary dies. Then you get it back up and you have to change these things back. My point of all of this is that there are a TON of details to take care of, and if you try to grow fast you need systems and protocol in place to deal with all of this information. Things get forgotten about, and your system can be a mess before you know it. If it's not automatic, it won't get done accurately. If there are multiple locations for storing information about your customers and the configuration, they will get out of sync. I've worked at three ISPs. The one which invested in the billing system which could track everything about a customer and provisioned everything from the billing system had the fewest customer service complaints. The other two spend many many extra man-hours tracking down documentation inconsistencies each year. I'm a firm believer in what the billing system says is how the hardware is configured. It also ensures that there is less left over cruft when a customer leaves. You're not accidentally still hosting their DNS two years after they stop paying you. We have used the method of using checklists for client changes (new customer, repair order, disconnect). We're just now getting into cleaning up our systems documentation on infrastructure components (routers backhauls APs - OH MY!!!). We have alot of information about the initial deployment of infrastructure equipment, but as changes have happened, we have not kept up with it. So we're
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
This is why we wrote wispmon. Handles virtually all this in a single platform. Cameron On Friday, November 5, 2010, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:34:01PM -0700, Mark Nash wrote: This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think... Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these systems get updated when components on our networks are added/removed/replaced/changed. That place is the billing system For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information about that new customer goes into: - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled correctly, correct price, contract signed stored, etc) - nagios (to monitor) With the right information in billing, a bit of scripting will automagically keep your Nagios configuration up to date. - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs) Keep this in the billing system. - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we have to go out there again) Keep this in the billing system where your techs can update as needed. - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable You can probably script this from the billing system if it tracks the MAC address of the customer's equipment. Depends on your APs and such. Then if that customer cancels... - remove from billing Mark the account inactive in billing. Keep the data. Database storage is cheap these days. That's probably what you meant... - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring) This automagically happens when your script to automagically update Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive. - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP) Let the billing system mark the IP as inactive when the account is marked inactive. - remove equipment documentation Keep the documentation on the account notes. They may come back. Database storage is cheap these days. Or if that customer has to change towers on our network... Update the billing system. - change monitored IP address Automagically happens on the next Nagios configuration generation run. - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP) Do this through the billing system. - change equipment documentation (if necessary) This is part of updating the billing system, which the on-site tech should do before leaving the customer's site. Updating the billing system while on-site ensures the Tech actually tested the connection by using it. - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable Hopefully you can script this from the billing system. Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down... - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using manual re-routing, not autmatic) Dynamic routing. Manual, ick. - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios Parents so that devices that are behind a Down device is not Down itself, just Unreachable - saves the inbox from getting blasted if a backhaul goes down If there are multiple paths, you can use multiple parents in Nagios. Nagios should do the right thing. We don't use the multiple parents option because it screws up the Map. But if the primary path goes down, the hosts which are still reachable stay up in Nagios. - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul You can create hosts in Nagios for each interface on a router if you want. Then you know when your backup path goes down before the primary dies. Then you get it back up and you have to change these things back. My point of all of this is that there are a TON of details to take care of, and if you try to grow fast you need systems and protocol in place to deal with all of this information. Things get forgotten about, and your system can be a mess before you know it. If it's not automatic, it won't get done accurately. If there are multiple locations for storing information about your customers and the configuration, they will get out of sync. I've worked at three ISPs. The one which invested in the billing system which could track everything about a customer and provisioned everything from the billing system had the fewest customer service complaints. The other two spend many many extra man-hours tracking down documentation inconsistencies each year. I'm a firm believer in what the billing system says is how the hardware is configured. It also ensures that there is less left over cruft when a customer leaves. You're not accidentally still hosting their DNS two years after they stop paying you. We have used the method of using checklists for client changes (new customer, repair order, disconnect). We're just now getting into cleaning up our systems documentation on infrastructure
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
This automagically happens when your script to automagically update Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive. Be careful with that idea. Automating that almost killed us. The reason is that sometimes you may want to disable monitoring on an account that is live, because it may be temporarilly down or temporarilly getting false alarms. There were times when we'd have 10-15 alarms disabled manually. The problem then is that when you automate a global corss refference between billing and monitoring, it re-enables all teh accounts you wanted disabled temporarilly. Then you spend 30 mionutes re-disabling the account, if you can remember which they are, as you get reminders all niught long when you get it wrong. I'm for automation, but no automation should check all the monitors and auto change. The automation should be on an account by account basis only. You dont want the automation to mess with accounts that are not the one you are specifically working on. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process This is why we wrote wispmon. Handles virtually all this in a single platform. Cameron On Friday, November 5, 2010, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:34:01PM -0700, Mark Nash wrote: This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think... Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these systems get updated when components on our networks are added/removed/replaced/changed. That place is the billing system For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information about that new customer goes into: - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled correctly, correct price, contract signed stored, etc) - nagios (to monitor) With the right information in billing, a bit of scripting will automagically keep your Nagios configuration up to date. - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs) Keep this in the billing system. - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we have to go out there again) Keep this in the billing system where your techs can update as needed. - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable You can probably script this from the billing system if it tracks the MAC address of the customer's equipment. Depends on your APs and such. Then if that customer cancels... - remove from billing Mark the account inactive in billing. Keep the data. Database storage is cheap these days. That's probably what you meant... - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring) This automagically happens when your script to automagically update Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive. - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP) Let the billing system mark the IP as inactive when the account is marked inactive. - remove equipment documentation Keep the documentation on the account notes. They may come back. Database storage is cheap these days. Or if that customer has to change towers on our network... Update the billing system. - change monitored IP address Automagically happens on the next Nagios configuration generation run. - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP) Do this through the billing system. - change equipment documentation (if necessary) This is part of updating the billing system, which the on-site tech should do before leaving the customer's site. Updating the billing system while on-site ensures the Tech actually tested the connection by using it. - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable Hopefully you can script this from the billing system. Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down... - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using manual re-routing, not autmatic) Dynamic routing. Manual, ick. - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios Parents so that devices that are behind a Down device is not Down itself, just Unreachable - saves the inbox from getting blasted if a backhaul goes down If there are multiple paths, you can use multiple parents in Nagios. Nagios should do the right thing. We don't use the multiple parents option because it screws up the Map. But if the primary path goes down, the hosts which are still reachable stay up in Nagios. - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul You can create hosts in Nagios for each interface on a router if you want. Then you know when your backup path goes down before the primary dies. Then you get it back up and you have
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Any discussion on best way to combine the two links from the DATA FLOW perspective or TCIP/IP perspective? The average Mikrotik Loadbalancer may not handle that 800mbps link all that well. Are people using Switch level trunk aggregation, or layer3 aggregation methods? OR just running two seperate logical link, and putting different traffic on different routers/links? There can be issues with combining at LAyer2, because often two wireless links dont operate at exactly teh same speed due to slightly different link qualities (packetloss) or SNRs. I'm assuming most would want to use a session bases method that would dynamically assign a specific session to a single link, which would require a high layer load balancing option. We are familiar with most of the load balancing methods, jsut wondering what others are choosing for combining two licensed 300-400mb links, and which hardware (switch or router) they are using to accomplish it. At first, used 2 Cisco 3750 doing etherchannel. They can L2-loadbalance using L3 parameters (src-dst-ip pair) which worked fine until MPLS was deployed, with a side effect of breaking the loadbalancing effect. It started working again when replaced with Cisco ME6524, which can L2-balance with L4 information and MPLS labels to a smooth session-based balancing with up to 8 links. Even without the MPLS license, which is the expensive part, my guess is that ME6524 can L2-balance with L4 information and could be an option to such a job. And after seeing Mikrotik RB450G load-balancing 200 Mbps with session persistance without issues, I would consider an RB-1000 to load-balance 2 links... Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
Scott hit the nail on the head with a number points so I will not rehash them, but I do agree you should integrate most of that info with your billing system (PowerCode, if I'm not mistaken). We've written scripts to integrate our billing system, Platypus, with all of the back-end systems used in our daily operations. Other, less frequently modified info such as MPLS VPN, IP VLAN allocations, and device configuration management remains outside of Plat. Although we are looking at an external OSS to deal with these things. Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down... - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using manual re-routing, not autmatic) Implement dynamic routing. It's worth it. - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios Parents so that devices that are behind a Down device is not Down itself, just Unreachable - saves the inbox from getting blasted if a backhaul goes down - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul Implement loopback addresses on each router and monitor those. If / when a link goes down the dynamic routing protocol will re-route traffic over the other backhaul and the loopback will still be reachable. Nagios won't blast you with messages about the devices behind the parent being down, and you don't have to change the monitored IP because you are always monitoring an IP which is accessible over either backhaul. You will still want to separately monitor the point-to-point IP's on each backhaul to know when the link itself is down, but you would not establish a parent - child relationship with those monitored objects. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
I have an application I created myself with php and mysql. When I do an install, I login to our server register the customer info along with the cpe mac, model, and ip. It assigns the customer 512kbps/ 128kbps by default. It keeps track of the billing info: balance, etc. It cancels if no payment is registered on the due date. Just added a security feature which checks if user ip comes from the cpe mac address. Is not a real wisp app but, it works for for me. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: Also, we USED to have HUMONGOUS discrepancies in setting speed limits for customers before the traffic management was integrated with the billing system. We use Powercode for this right now. In the beginning, we speed limited people at each AP. The biggest problem then was that people were not limited at all (this happened quite a bit), until I went in and mandated that every AP on our system was pre-populated with a 512k limit for every IP address on its subnet. That did bring up the issue invevitably as people felt their connection was slow. That took a load off of our systems being out of sync with our billing at least, then it was mainly monitoring and keeping track of IP addresses equipment types. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread again... The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring, cpe function) and billing in sync. I've not seen multiple applications stay together by human hand. Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it. On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
Sent from my iPhone On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: Also, we USED to have HUMONGOUS discrepancies in setting speed limits for customers before the traffic management was integrated with the billing system. We use Powercode for this right now. In the beginning, we speed limited people at each AP. The biggest problem then was that people were not limited at all (this happened quite a bit), until I went in and mandated that every AP on our system was pre-populated with a 512k limit for every IP address on its subnet. That did bring up the issue invevitably as people felt their connection was slow. This also happened to me since, I wasn't controlling customer's bw. After applying bw management some complained that their connection was slow. They're getting used to it by now. Controlling bw has helped our network so much and I find it more reliable, if I would have known this I would have done it earlier. That took a load off of our systems being out of sync with our billing at least, then it was mainly monitoring and keeping track of IP addresses equipment types. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread again... The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring, cpe function) and billing in sync. I've not seen multiple applications stay together by human hand. Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it. On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Telescoping Mast
Anyone know of a place where I can get some sort of telescoping mast that I can tow behind me in my truck or maybe just put on my tow hitch? Oh yeah and it needs to be cheap too. I want to start using something like this for our site surveys because it would be much easier than getting out the telescoping pole we use and having someone hold it steady with a radio on it. I was thinking of just making one myself but even the telescoping pole itself is hard to find. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v
Per Mike Ford: [image: Default] -- Hello, Nanostation is 12V to 24V, Bullet is 5V to 24V. Thanks, Mike On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: The key to this thread is NS2 - Not NSM2 They are different and the power supplies they can operate of are also different... some NS2's will not work with 24v. Just fyi... Scott Carullo Technical Operations 855-FLSPEED x102 -- *From*: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net *Sent*: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:27 AM *To*: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Subject*: Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v Well, considering it ships with 24V UBNT PS, yes it supports 24V Should use regulated PS, to make sure stays under 25V. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Telescoping Mast
Dude! I showed ya once. The Nuclear Torpedo Wilbert Mast Pain in the A** (WISPA RULES PREVAIL) Site surveys always a BS thing. What I do is make the link calculations, print out the path THEN go to the site and see the big mass of trees right in the path. Walk around on the roof or hang off their antenna tower. Sucks. But you ROCK dude! Well done. - The son I never had But never wanted either. It's a thing,... you Illegitimate child of not mine! Steve- (Hiding) From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Liam Cummings Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Telescoping Mast Anyone know of a place where I can get some sort of telescoping mast that I can tow behind me in my truck or maybe just put on my tow hitch? Oh yeah and it needs to be cheap too. I want to start using something like this for our site surveys because it would be much easier than getting out the telescoping pole we use and having someone hold it steady with a radio on it. I was thinking of just making one myself but even the telescoping pole itself is hard to find. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
Sadly. I agree! J I think most of us were there in the beginning! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process Yeah, when your goal is 2-3 COMPLETED installs per day, that system quickly gets out of hand ;). Other companies on this list go for far more than me, too. - Original Message - From: Robert West mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process My old system of writing it all on the back my business cards and discarded Burger King napkins found on the floor of the van worked for awhile but quickly failed. Napkins sometimes got used for other purposes after they had the information on them so I have a no napkin rule as a result. Paper Plates are a better choice, I found. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process I can tell you how I solved these problems but it might start a big thread again... The key is to force the documentation, activity (monitoring, cpe function) and billing in sync. I've not seen multiple applications stay together by human hand. Maybe it would work if someone's entire job was dedicated to it. On Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: _ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process
Scott, You are focused correctly. BILLING! It all has to orbit around billing or we may as well stay home. Unless, of course the billing server is at home, then it's okay to do other things... Like scrapbooking and laminating things with the wife. Hm... Billing needs to be elsewhere. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Lambert Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Systems Management - Process On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:34:01PM -0700, Mark Nash wrote: This is lengthy, but worth discussion, I think... Unless there is a good process in place to ensure that these systems get updated when components on our networks are added/removed/replaced/changed. That place is the billing system For instance... A new customer is added to our network... Information about that new customer goes into: - billing (several things here...email address verified, pro-rate amount added for first month, valid billing address, name spelled correctly, correct price, contract signed stored, etc) - nagios (to monitor) With the right information in billing, a bit of scripting will automagically keep your Nagios configuration up to date. - IP documentation (so we don't duplicate IPs) Keep this in the billing system. - equipment documentation (so we know what we're dealing with if we have to go out there again) Keep this in the billing system where your techs can update as needed. - name the association on the AP so it's easily identifiable You can probably script this from the billing system if it tracks the MAC address of the customer's equipment. Depends on your APs and such. Then if that customer cancels... - remove from billing Mark the account inactive in billing. Keep the data. Database storage is cheap these days. That's probably what you meant... - remove from Nagios (so we stop monitoring) This automagically happens when your script to automagically update Nagios removes accounts which are marked as inactive. - remove from IP documentation (so we can re-use that IP) Let the billing system mark the IP as inactive when the account is marked inactive. - remove equipment documentation Keep the documentation on the account notes. They may come back. Database storage is cheap these days. Or if that customer has to change towers on our network... Update the billing system. - change monitored IP address Automagically happens on the next Nagios configuration generation run. - change IP documentation (so we can re-use the old IP) Do this through the billing system. - change equipment documentation (if necessary) This is part of updating the billing system, which the on-site tech should do before leaving the customer's site. Updating the billing system while on-site ensures the Tech actually tested the connection by using it. - name the association on the new AP so it's easily identifiable Hopefully you can script this from the billing system. Now let's consider replacing a backhaul goes down... - change the routing to go to use a backup backhaul (we're using manual re-routing, not autmatic) Dynamic routing. Manual, ick. - change the hierarchy in our monitoring system (we use Nagios Parents so that devices that are behind a Down device is not Down itself, just Unreachable - saves the inbox from getting blasted if a backhaul goes down If there are multiple paths, you can use multiple parents in Nagios. Nagios should do the right thing. We don't use the multiple parents option because it screws up the Map. But if the primary path goes down, the hosts which are still reachable stay up in Nagios. - change the monitored IP address for the router at that site so we're monitoring an IP address that is going over the backup backhaul You can create hosts in Nagios for each interface on a router if you want. Then you know when your backup path goes down before the primary dies. Then you get it back up and you have to change these things back. My point of all of this is that there are a TON of details to take care of, and if you try to grow fast you need systems and protocol in place to deal with all of this information. Things get forgotten about, and your system can be a mess before you know it. If it's not automatic, it won't get done accurately. If there are multiple locations for storing information about your customers and the configuration, they will get out of sync. I've worked at three ISPs. The one which invested in the billing system which could track everything about a customer and provisioned everything from the billing system had the fewest customer service complaints. The other two spend many many extra man-hours tracking down documentation inconsistencies each year. I'm a firm believer in what the billing system says is how the hardware is
