Re: [WISPA] making money from voip
When I spoke to them last (only about 4 weeks ago) Ron Harden said they didn't support hunt groups (the name was eluding me when I first posted to this thread-odd given that hunt groups were fundamental to any ISP for so many years! ;-), though they could do line forwarding. Are you saying Vox DOES support hunt groups? That'd be so odd since Ron is the executive VP or something I thought. That or I'm royally messed up... Chuck On Nov 11, 2010, at 10:20 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: You have to get them to enable hunting. It's not the same as forwarding. Sent from my iPhone4 On Nov 11, 2010, at 9:09 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: How do you handle the line pool problem? It's the only issue keeping me from going to Vox for business customers-most businesses have multiple lines where a customer calls in and gets whatever line is free in the pool. Vox can do line forwarding, but that means the customer has to call the first line in the forwarding sequence and there's a delay while each line is found to be busy before it's forwarded (I assume), so it isn't the same as normal line pool. Would love a practical solution to this problem. Chuck On Nov 11, 2010, at 9:08 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Everything we use is branded in our name including the LOA's and the portal. Vox handles everything up front during the setup process. Since 95% of our lines are ported from other companies it was important for this to all have our company name. Sent from my iPhone4 On Nov 11, 2010, at 7:27 PM, Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com wrote: If you use VOX, do you still have to do all the FCC stuff, since you are not the provider? Thanks, Roger On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: Tried Telemedium. They were horrible. As a matter of fact they are out of business now. We use VOX. They are a wispa member. I have yet to get a call from anyone complaining about voice quality b Sent from my iPhone4 On Nov 11, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Ryan Goldberg rgoldb...@compudyne.net wrote: Whose service do you use? Who if anyone did you try before current provider? Thanks- Ryan On Nov 11, 2010, at 5:07 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: Our approach is white label to business only bundled with our Internet usually and other Internet outside of our coverage. We include email, webhosting, data backup with all packages to make us sticky. Also we definitely aren't the cheapest. We went that route in the beginning but sales didn't take off until we raised our price. Sent from my iPhone4 On Nov 11, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Ryan Goldberg rgoldb...@compudyne.net wrote: Curious what models you guys are working. Hosted PBX, white label, etc. What approach for SMB v. residential v enterprise. And so on. TIA Ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today
Re: [WISPA] making money from voip
How do you handle the line pool problem? It's the only issue keeping me from going to Vox for business customers-most businesses have multiple lines where a customer calls in and gets whatever line is free in the pool. Vox can do line forwarding, but that means the customer has to call the first line in the forwarding sequence and there's a delay while each line is found to be busy before it's forwarded (I assume), so it isn't the same as normal line pool. Would love a practical solution to this problem. Chuck On Nov 11, 2010, at 9:08 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Everything we use is branded in our name including the LOA's and the portal. Vox handles everything up front during the setup process. Since 95% of our lines are ported from other companies it was important for this to all have our company name. Sent from my iPhone4 On Nov 11, 2010, at 7:27 PM, Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com wrote: If you use VOX, do you still have to do all the FCC stuff, since you are not the provider? Thanks, Roger On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: Tried Telemedium. They were horrible. As a matter of fact they are out of business now. We use VOX. They are a wispa member. I have yet to get a call from anyone complaining about voice quality b Sent from my iPhone4 On Nov 11, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Ryan Goldberg rgoldb...@compudyne.net wrote: Whose service do you use? Who if anyone did you try before current provider? Thanks- Ryan On Nov 11, 2010, at 5:07 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: Our approach is white label to business only bundled with our Internet usually and other Internet outside of our coverage. We include email, webhosting, data backup with all packages to make us sticky. Also we definitely aren't the cheapest. We went that route in the beginning but sales didn't take off until we raised our price. Sent from my iPhone4 On Nov 11, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Ryan Goldberg rgoldb...@compudyne.net wrote: Curious what models you guys are working. Hosted PBX, white label, etc. What approach for SMB v. residential v enterprise. And so on. TIA Ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
I'll hazard a guess here that Radwin was OEMing boxes from Ceragon at the time then. That's like me complaining about Redline if I had problems with Alvarion's old Link Blaster, which was an OEM'd Redline point-to-point product. If I bought it from Alvarion and didn't get support, then it's Alvarion's problem, not Redline's. (For the record here, we were perfectly happy with the Link Blaster-just using that as an example). It wouldn't be right or fair for me to sling mud at Redline for it, especially *years* later. We all get a bug up our butts about something or another, but I think its bad practice if nothing else to go out of your way to hurt a company you never even bought anything from (remember, your main problem was with the zero support, which was a Radwin issue, not a Ceragon issue) when those of us who actually have experience buying from the company seem to be quite happy. Either way, your experience was from years ago. We all know companies go through problems at times. If they fix them, great. If not, they'll pay the price in the marketplace. And if you had current, direct experiences to report, that's useful information. But it's worth it to give even companies that have messed up a chance to prove they can fix themselves. I'd defend Redline the same way if the circumstances were similar. Chuck On Nov 5, 2010, at 12:15 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Says Ceragon on the boxes. They appear identical in hardware and software to the Radwins we bought with the company. Just FYI. On Nov 5, 2010 12:03 AM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: To be honest Josh, didn't you tell me your problems were with what was at one time a sister company, Radwin, and not Ceragon? Yet you call the company Ceragon when you've told me it was really Radwin. It really isn't fair to be tarring and feathering Ceragon due to the problems with Radwin-which was years ago and not even the same company. Ceragon products in the licensed sphere are _strictly_ Ceragon designed and manufactured (I followed up on this the last time you were panning Ceragon so I could independently understand the situation). They are not even OEM'd from Radwin. Ceragon is an independent, publicly traded company. It was *started*, years ago by the same investment group that started Radwin. For the record, we've been quite happy with Ceragon's products. The interface hasn't been a problem, but like Brad, I believe we tend to use the telnet interface. I've also been happy with Alvarion and Ubiquity in the unlicensed space. I have no personal interest in any of these companies, but don't think it's fair to malign a manufacturer when you don't actually have any experience with them as far as I can tell. When you did have problems it was with a related company, not this company, it was years ago (things DO change), and this company at least is no longer even a sister company (in the sense at least that it is now publicly traded). Chuck On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface. On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful. I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango equipment. We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well support thus far has been great. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that. .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of performance, And management. Nick Olsen Network Operations (855) FLSPEED x106 http://www.flhsi.com/files/emaillogo.jpg _ From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010
Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower
If you're a WISPA member, I think the wiki has a number of sample contracts. Chuck Sent from my iPad On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Liam Cummings lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com wrote: I’m looking for a good contract to use for exclusive use of someone’s tower. Anyone want to share what they have with us? Would save me tons of time. J TX Liam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus to lose $602 Million?
Of course that wouldn't be particular fair given that NTIA got 2/3rds of the funding in the first place. I'd hope they'd have to cough up 2/3rds of the give back. Chuck On Jul 2, 2010, at 12:04 PM, St. Louis Broadband wrote: Was just informed by our Senator's Aid that this has not been decided yet. If it is approved half of the funds would come out of the NTIA and the other RUS. This would still leave the RUS fund @ $1.5B. And yes Robert, I hate to see tax dollars spent on a war. ~V~ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:46 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus to lose $602 Million? Nice. And for such a great cause, too. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 11:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus to lose $602 Million? http://broadbandbreakfast.com/?p=9684 -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2977 - Release Date: 07/02/10 01:35:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus to lose $602 Million?
I've contacted the two congressman in our area already. Haven't reached out yet to the Senators. Chuck On Jul 2, 2010, at 1:12 PM, St. Louis Broadband wrote: Just expressed that sentiment with our Senator, suggest you do the same ;-) ~V~ -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch [mailto:ch...@clarityconnect.com] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 12:02 PM To: li...@stlbroadband.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus to lose $602 Million? Of course that wouldn't be particular fair given that NTIA got 2/3rds of the funding in the first place. I'd hope they'd have to cough up 2/3rds of the give back. Chuck On Jul 2, 2010, at 12:04 PM, St. Louis Broadband wrote: Was just informed by our Senator's Aid that this has not been decided yet. If it is approved half of the funds would come out of the NTIA and the other RUS. This would still leave the RUS fund @ $1.5B. And yes Robert, I hate to see tax dollars spent on a war. ~V~ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:46 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus to lose $602 Million? Nice. And for such a great cause, too. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 11:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus to lose $602 Million? http://broadbandbreakfast.com/?p=9684 -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2977 - Release Date: 07/02/10 01:35:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2977 - Release Date: 07/02/10 01:35:00 -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Documentation Methods
You should add (in my opinion): (1) photo of installation location BEFORE you do the install, not just a post install photo. (2) a sign-off from the customer saying your installation was acceptable. That goes a LONG ways when the wife gets home and complains. You got the husband's sign-off (or vice versa). Chuck On Apr 22, 2010, at 11:05 PM, Steven G McGehee wrote: Thought of another question I wanted to pose to you gents regarding documentation on installations, primarily customer installations (as opposed to PoP/tower installations). I was curious what methods you employed during and/or after the install to best 'capture' the details of the installation. For example, some of the things we do are take notes of any specific 'gotchas' on site like needing to park in a certain area, what type of ladder or roof access there is, if you have to sign in or be escorted by a rep. of the business - etc. We also take photos of the installation when we're finished and write up notes afterwards on their account detailing the length and path of the cable that goes from the unit into the structure, what other PoPs we could see at the time, what signal/speeds we were getting, etc. If any of you would share your methods on what you do, I'd appreciate it. I think we're doing enough, but I'm always open to other suggestions and interested in seeing what others in the business are doing. Thanks. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
I have no experience with 802.16e, but have lots with 802.16d. 16d does not support MIMO. However, even without MIMO, we are ripping out 900/5.x and putting in Alvarion .16d. The diversity alone gives it penetration characteristics equal to or better than 900. WiMax does cost more, as we all know, but it also supports more clients (we're projecting close to 200 per base station. I hope we're right... ;-). We can't put it in where 900 is serving just a few customers. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
On Apr 20, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: My point here is that Diversity can make a huge difference, diversity is the differenciator, but that the benefit of diversity can vary dependant on the Freq used and environment tackling, based on past experience. Without looking up the math on this, I would speculate that the reason is wavelength. At 3.65 we're about 4' apart. To get the same advantage at 900 MHz I'd willing to bet you might need to be quite a bit further apart-which isn't practical in most cases. I'm not willing to say it scales with wavelength (not without looking at the actual equations that is) but wavelength is going to be a factor in how effective diversity is at any given distance between two antennas. On the other hand, moving the antennas further apart at lower frequencies should be able to re-create the advantage. Chuck Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Sector Tilt angle
-- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - -- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - -- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- l...@iridescent.org -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2752 - Release Date: 03/30/10 01:32:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Does anybody have any ideas?
Chuck, You hope we don't *think* you're nuts?! coughknowcough ;-) Chuck On Mar 31, 2010, at 9:48 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Forbes, Hope the rest of the list doesn't think I'm nuts: Do you see any large, hi gain CB or Ham beam antennas or Truckers from the southern area parked or loading nearby? Within say 1/4 mile of B tower? The new mobile 70KW class C Linear's are about as dirty as they come. Some of those drivers from Mexico and AZ are talking direct, no skip, 500 miles on the lower vertical channels. That much bleed over in radiated power may trip ground on your switch and or MT boards. It could come right thru your tower grounding, let alone your antennas and CAt5. Could you try batteries there? Say a smart charger thru a UPS, then to batteries. i.e. no common ground. Chuck Profito -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Does anybody have any ideas? We have been plagued with an ongoing issue in our Mikrotik backhauls. It happens about once a month and only on three radios that feed each other, all other sites work fine. Site A is my head end, it is a Mikrotik 433 with an XR5 chip that feeds about five miles to another site to Site B. Site B has the same equipment that goes through a managed switch then passes on to Site C about 7 miles further. What happens is we are suddenly paged that all three are down. Sometimes Site A stays up, most times not, we can get into Site A since it's the head end and we reboot it, it comes right back up. Site B and C stay down, we have to drive to Site B and reboot it, it comes back up but Site C stays down. We have a remote reboot for it from a redundant feed so after rebooting it C reconnects to B and they are all up. This will happen three or four more times in a single day or not at all again for a month, it's totally unpredictable. The boards are up but not communicating, it also takes down the other 2.4 Mikortik AP's at Site B and that has to be rebooted. We normally run arp -d to clear up any residual, it sure appears to be traffic related and we are on a bridged not routed network. The only similarities is it's only this feed, it usually happens in spurts of a day or two then stops for a long time, it always happens during the working day leading me to believe it's coming from a day user. We run Wireshark but see nothing, we torch the towers and they don't show much unusual. We're thinking it might be a deluge of traffic between Site B and C and are thinking of putting a PC at the C tower to run diagnostics there. This is very manpower heavy as we have to send people two places and average down time is one hour to do this. We are going to turn our network into a routed network this Summer but that doesn't help now. Any ideas would be appreciated. Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Building Heights?
Hey, that's a great tool! Thanks for pointing it out. Chuck On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:07 AM, jp wrote: Use the profiler on here: http://www.heywhatsthat.com/ The website author made it usable for wireless for us. He'll do custom sites that show only your tower locations too if you want. On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 04:42:27PM -0700, Forbes Mercy wrote: Wouldn't it be cool if when using Google Earth you could draw a straight line between two points and it would calculate the altitude of each origin point then mark in red any place where altitude is higher than the beginning and end points along the line? For long legs in mixed altitude areas that would really be nice. Forbes On 3/29/2010 1:12 PM, Jim Patient wrote: Well, it prolly isn't good every place but I just selected 3d buildings on google earth and drug my mouse from the street to top of Met Square in St Louis. It shows the elevation at street level and the top of the building. The difference is the elevation of the building height in this case. Jim On 3/29/2010 2:03 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: Not for free. This info is usually pretty expensive for good high res data. That being said, one interesting flaw in the SRTM data is that is contains building canopy within the data. The radar they used bounced off man made structures and make them appear to be part of the terrain. So, in big cities, or even small ones in core areas, if you are running propagation plots, you would not want to add additional building heights. If you want the most accurate results, I suggest 10m DEM's (where available) with a good set of building elevation data (the expensive stuff). If you are just looking to run propagation plots for your unlicensed network, The SRTM data is probably good enough. Cameron On 3/29/2010 12:07 PM, Charles Hooper wrote: Hello, Does anyone know a reliable source/method of getting building heights? Something like a topographical map that included buildings would be excellent, but I haven't been able to find anything like this. Thanks! Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] How the National Broadband Plan can kill whitespace for WISPs or make it great!
Assuming we're talking about the same thing, I think they are proposing to do reverse auctions for the spectrum. Chuck On Mar 18, 2010, at 5:42 PM, Tony Morella wrote: Hello I was reading thought the National Broadband Plan and these two sections caught my attention: Auction of overlay licenses. Under its current authority,117 the FCC could auction overlay, flexible-use licenses with secondary rights in the broadcast TV bands. Overlay auction winners would negotiate with broadcast TV stations and other licensed users to clear their respective bands.118 Proceeds from the overlay auction would go to the U.S. Treasury but could be significantly lower than the proceeds of an incentive auction, primarily due to greater uncertainty over the amount and timing of spectrum recovered.119 118 Stations could clear the overlay license bands by ceasing to broadcast over-the-air or by relocating to another broadcast TV band with or without overlay licenses. As part of the agreement to cease over-the-air broadcasts, stations or overlay license winners could reach private contractual carriage agreements with MVPDs to reach the remaining 85-90% of households. Thomas Hazlett Comments in re NBP PN #26, filed Dec. 18, 2009, at 9. With FCC approval, relocating to another band could involve either occupying another available 6-megahertz channel or sharing a channel with another station. The FCC should conduct an auction of some or all of the nationwide, contiguous spectrum recovered through the repacking described above and through decisions by stations to voluntarily relinquish some or all of their bandwidth. Stations would receive a share of the proceeds from the spectrum they directly contribute to the auction. If this is adopted it could kill an unlicensed whitespace device as the overlay licenses would have first rights after the main holder. Also if they auction off some or all of the spectrum recovered this will reduce the white space dramatically. Also the are not recommending any changes to how auctions are done to include small business. Comments? Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com/ Need to sell off over stock!! Major discounts no quanity needed! 600mW Atheros CPEs, Starting at $59.95!! ___ WISPA Membership Mailing List --- -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
If I'm being charged $7000/month just to get to Syracuse by this new build out, I can't imagine what they'd charge to go to NYC. Chuck On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: That is the purpose of a middle mile BTOP grant... to take you from Ithaca, Syracuse, Binghamton, or Rochester to 60 Hudson St. or 111 8th Ave., New York. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well
Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app
I'll ask and get back to you. My gf has tried them all 'cause that's what she does for fun... Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Jerry Richardson wrote: any recommendations on the best jailbreak program? I used Backra1n and it ran fine for a couple of weeks then crashed for no apparent reason. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 8:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app Jerry, Yes you need to jailbreak. Jailbreaking basically gives you access to the underlying OS rather then being tied to the pretty skined app on top of it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: how do you access the shell? do I need to jailbreak ? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Sales sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Hmm I just goto my iPhones command line via shell and type ssh ipaddress works like a charm. John Buwa Michiana Wireless,Inc 574-233-7170 Sent from my iPhone On Mar 11, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: I know in the last couple of weeks there was a discussion about an ssh app for the iPhone. I did not save the emails because I thought I would never need something like because I don't have an iPhone. But, I bought an iPhone last night and now I am looking for an ssh app. I have found iSSH and the reviews are good about it. I know that $7.99 for an app is a lot of money but if this is the one to have then I don't mind spending the money. This also appears to have a vnc client as well. Any input as far as SSH utilities or any other iPhone apps for WISP operations would be appreciated. LaRoy McCann Data Technology --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app
Okay, the answer I got was: blackra1n works in a flash and you don't even need to restore your stuff http://www.blackra1n.org/ She discussed several others but that's her clear preference. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Jerry Richardson wrote: any recommendations on the best jailbreak program? I used Backra1n and it ran fine for a couple of weeks then crashed for no apparent reason. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 8:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app Jerry, Yes you need to jailbreak. Jailbreaking basically gives you access to the underlying OS rather then being tied to the pretty skined app on top of it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: how do you access the shell? do I need to jailbreak ? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Sales sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Hmm I just goto my iPhones command line via shell and type ssh ipaddress works like a charm. John Buwa Michiana Wireless,Inc 574-233-7170 Sent from my iPhone On Mar 11, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: I know in the last couple of weeks there was a discussion about an ssh app for the iPhone. I did not save the emails because I thought I would never need something like because I don't have an iPhone. But, I bought an iPhone last night and now I am looking for an ssh app. I have found iSSH and the reviews are good about it. I know that $7.99 for an app is a lot of money but if this is the one to have then I don't mind spending the money. This also appears to have a vnc client as well. Any input as far as SSH utilities or any other iPhone apps for WISP operations would be appreciated. LaRoy McCann Data Technology --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote: I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. I meant in our area by the way (I'm sure that was obvious, but just in case). Chuck Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Right, I've been as proactive as anyone. However, in our regional rate centers those prices simply are not available. And the transport you're being quoted is 1/10th the rate we're seeing-for a similar distance I might add. And that's from one of the Round 1 winners. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:56 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: That middle mile would bring that $1 megabit to you more affordably. If a middle mile project that I'm working with goes through, I'll have $871/month transport for 1 gigabit 60 driving miles into 350 Cermak, one of the top 4 or 5 connected buildings in the country. Yes, I have personally received multiple $1 and below quotes and I haven't been as proactive as others on this list have been. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:49 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
If I go out and shoot a deer, I took it's life (and it's meat ;-). If I give you some, I'm giving you some, whether or not I took it from someone else. If you're my kid and I give you bread, I'm giving it to you whether or not I paid for it or I broke into a store and stole it. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 8:55 PM, RickG wrote: websters.com –give (used with object) 1.to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation; bestow: to give a birthday present to someone. The government cant give anything because they get the money to pay for such things from us, the US taxpayer. They simply take and transfer ownership. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Chuck, Thanks. You just reminded me that the government gave us the Internet too. From Wikipedia - The origins of the Internet reach back to the 1960s when the United States funded research projects of its military agencies to build robust, fault-tolerant and distributed computer networks. This research and a period of civilian funding of a new U.S. backbone by the National Science Foundation spawned worldwide participation in the development of new networking technologies and led to the commercialization of an international network in the mid 1990s, and resulted in the following popularization of countless applications in virtually every aspect of modern human life. As of 2009, an estimated quarter of Earth's population uses the services of the Internet. jack Chuck Bartosch wrote: On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:27 AM, MDK wrote: Government Gave me my life? Really? Telephone? Until we got the government out of it, it was horrendously expensive and advanced none at all. That isn't really true Mark. Before the government got involved you had multiple non-interworking telephone systems. I remember my grandfather telling me when I was young that people had to have a red telephone and a blue telephone in Minneapolis where we grew up for the two phone companies if you wanted to be able to call everyone with a phone. Talk about horrendously expensive (and not just in cost, but in time). Government forced a monopoly situation that for many many decades worked to our advantage. Eventually that was broken up when it no longer served the public's interest. I also remember that friends who travelled around the world coming back always commenting about how much more advanced and how much more reliable our telecom systems were than anyone else's. And no advances? Geeze, when I was a kid everyone I knew had party lines. Not long before that you had operators connecting calls. There were a LOT of advances given the core technology that was available. It is hard to see just what kind of other advances you could have had in the 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's. The internet wasn't possible back then because home computers didn't exist and the protocols that allowed it to emerge didn't exist. It wasn't until the later 60's that transistors really became viable and allowed a lot of the dynamic advances that breaking the monopoly enabled. Yes, it took a decade or two to undo the the regulatory environment that by that point WAS holding back progress, but I respectfully submit that doing it decades earlier than that would have had no particular beneficial effect and the original intervention was hugely beneficial. Reflexively painting everything government does as bad is simplistic though has the benefit that it doesn't take a lot of thought. But it's a disservice to your own arguments and restricts your ability to influence debate and the position of others. It might be more useful to take a more balanced view that more accurately reflects reality. Chuck Now, we have services that WERE NOT EVEN CONCEIVABLE to me the year I got married. We've come that far since then. Copper to my house? Obsolete. Long distance?I haven't paid that in years. All it took was someone with a big enough club to force government to undo what it did for us. It could be so cheap and so competitive the cost would be trivial, but no, the pointy headed trolls in DC have to give us stuff. You know what? I lived for years far beyond the end of the power and phone lines. Guess what? No big loss.If we'd not subsidized bad ideas for so long, real innovation would have started LONG LONG LONG ago, to solve problems with real solutions, instead of cementing the past into stone with good intentions. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Philip Dorr wirel...@judgementgaming.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:02 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE Your life? Telephone? Rural Utilities? On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:31
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:20 PM, RickG wrote: Actually, yes, this is the first I've heard about it. Obviously, I'm not a sports fan :) I was initially surprised you hadn't heard of it before too because you're pretty active on list and it's been discussed numerous times and in detail over the past 15 months but maybe it was on another list (the WISPA members list?). Or, like the Form 477 discussions a few years ago that I personally skipped over for a long time, maybe it was just an ignored thread topic (given our propensity to not start new threads for new topics, that wouldn't be surprising). Most of us heard of it either due to customer complaints or because of the list discussion. For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the industry will ever move en-mass to a pay-by-the-bit model. True, it makes the most sense from an operator standpoint, but it's just too easy to get undercut by a competitor who doesn't do it, the big companies that would have to do it first for it to go mainstream invariably chicken out too quickly or mess it up by doing it in a high-handed fashion that pisses everyone off, or politicians will get involved to defeat the model. That's *my* prediction. Chuck I've never had a customer request. I've have mixed feelings about this. Coming from the cable world, I was used to paying providers for channel content. The difference was, we didnt have to pay for bandwidth. Now, everyone wants to ride the bandwidth that we pay for to get to our customer. Maybe big bad ESPN should pay us? .05/sub/month doesnt sound like much but it adds up real fast. Worse yet, you still pay even though not everyone wants or needs it. Oh, and just what we need, another paper to fill out. I've been predicting since '97 that we'll have to charge the billing model to charge by the bit and that day is getting closer each time things like this occur. -RickG BTW: I did dial-up back in '93 and never paid for a TCP/IP stack or the Browser :) On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
chuckle Well, for what it's worth I hope *you* are right and *I* am wrong ;-). Damn I hate betting against the outcome I _want_ to see! Chuck On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:37 AM, RickG wrote: Chuck, You're perceptive on the reasons I didnt hear of it, I probably just didnt pay attention as it didnt seem to apply or it just got lost in all the topics. As I've mentioned before, I did pay by the bit back in '98 when I was GM at a small cable co. I only imposed it on bandwidth hogs and it worked well. The reason I havent switched to it with this company is that so far its not worth the hassle. With that said, I'll see your prediction and raise you:) TCP/IP will eventually be the only pipe for all communications. Once that happens, the cable co will utilize their billing model for television. It may not be bill by the bit but they will certainly charge a premium for advanced services. -RickG On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:20 PM, RickG wrote: Actually, yes, this is the first I've heard about it. Obviously, I'm not a sports fan :) I was initially surprised you hadn't heard of it before too because you're pretty active on list and it's been discussed numerous times and in detail over the past 15 months but maybe it was on another list (the WISPA members list?). Or, like the Form 477 discussions a few years ago that I personally skipped over for a long time, maybe it was just an ignored thread topic (given our propensity to not start new threads for new topics, that wouldn't be surprising). Most of us heard of it either due to customer complaints or because of the list discussion. For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the industry will ever move en-mass to a pay-by-the-bit model. True, it makes the most sense from an operator standpoint, but it's just too easy to get undercut by a competitor who doesn't do it, the big companies that would have to do it first for it to go mainstream invariably chicken out too quickly or mess it up by doing it in a high-handed fashion that pisses everyone off, or politicians will get involved to defeat the model. That's *my* prediction. Chuck I've never had a customer request. I've have mixed feelings about this. Coming from the cable world, I was used to paying providers for channel content. The difference was, we didnt have to pay for bandwidth. Now, everyone wants to ride the bandwidth that we pay for to get to our customer. Maybe big bad ESPN should pay us? .05/sub/month doesnt sound like much but it adds up real fast. Worse yet, you still pay even though not everyone wants or needs it. Oh, and just what we need, another paper to fill out. I've been predicting since '97 that we'll have to charge the billing model to charge by the bit and that day is getting closer each time things like this occur. -RickG BTW: I did dial-up back in '93 and never paid for a TCP/IP stack or the Browser :) On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app
Yeah, I haven't found tethering to make all that much sense either. My gf has her iPhone jail broken, but honestly, I think she does it just because she can...I haven't seen her do anything with it that actually mattered. I haven't had a problem doing anything I needed (or wanted) to do without jail breaking. I also have a Droid at the moment, but damn, I'll tell you, it's a annoying as hell in comparison. And I really hate the little feedback vibration every time I touch one of the permanent keys (maybe that can be turned off-I haven't taken the time to delve too much into the options yet). I'll keep using it for a few more days but so far it doesn't compare, even though Verizon's 3G coverage IS a little but broader out this way (but, it's not as much broader as I'd thought it was supposed to be). However, if I didn't have the iPhone as an option, I'd probably love the Droid. Sure beats what I used to use, even if it doesn't quite meet (for me) the iPhone standards. As always with this kind of thing, I'm sure YMMV. Chuck On Mar 11, 2010, at 6:04 PM, Data Technology wrote: Justin Wilson wrote: The only benefit I have seen so far of Jailbreaking an iphone is being able to tether it. Every App I have wanted to run I can find in the store. Justin I had thought that would be a great thing to have, then I could connect the laptop and have a bigger screen and kbd to browse with. But around here I don't have 3g available, so ATT is slow for the internet. I then thought that I could just use a wi-fi connection (surly I could find one of those!) but then I thought, you big dummy, if I can get a wi-fi connection on the phone to tether to the laptop then I could just connect to the wi-fi with the laptop ;) So I dont't think I really need tethering. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] USF Changes
WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] USF Changes
://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100305/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_fcc_universal_service;_ylt=AgSGtpiLKKQbXooR3LKvT.cPLBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTMzNGcwMmcyBGFzc2V0Ay9hcC8yMDEwMDMwNS9hcF9vbl9oaV90ZS91c190ZWNfZmNjX3VuaXZlcnNhbF9zZXJ2aWNlBHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl90b21ic3RvbmUEc2xrA2ZjY3RvcHJvcG9zZQ-- -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BIP/BTOP
I don't see anything about that listed on broadbandusa.gov. The only posting for today is the latest winners from round one. Where are you looking? Chuck On Mar 2, 2010, at 11:51 AM, ccoo...@intelliwave.com wrote: For those of you following the game, BB USA advises that they have extended the deadline on both BIP and BTOP applications. Chris Cooper Intelliwave This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BIP/BTOP
Odd, it's not in the press releases updates section...but it IS in the FAQ! Thanks Chris! Chuck On Mar 2, 2010, at 11:51 AM, ccoo...@intelliwave.com wrote: For those of you following the game, BB USA advises that they have extended the deadline on both BIP and BTOP applications. Chris Cooper Intelliwave This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BIP/BTOP
Monday, March 29th for BIP and Friday, March 26th for BTOP (for the infrastructure builds that WISPs would be concerned with). Chuck On Mar 2, 2010, at 12:51 PM, Jack Unger wrote: What's the new date? Chuck Bartosch wrote: Odd, it's not in the press releases updates section...but it IS in the FAQ! Thanks Chris! Chuck On Mar 2, 2010, at 11:51 AM, ccoo...@intelliwave.com wrote: For those of you following the game, BB USA advises that they have extended the deadline on both BIP and BTOP applications. Chris Cooper Intelliwave This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Reminder - 477 Utility
Where is the utility again? Chuck On Mar 1, 2010, at 12:33 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: To date only a handful of people have used the FCC utility we posted the other day. I'm surprised given the discussion that went on two weeks ago about the issue. If you are having trouble or need help with getting this going, please feel free to email me at cc...@wispmon.com or just call us 817-764-0956 if you have questions or problems. It's raining here today so I'll be around. Remember, the filing is due today. Cameron WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Buying co-op
It's been a very active topic recently on the WISPA member list. Chuck On Feb 27, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I'm sure this has been brought up or may already be one, but has anyone thought of starting a buying co-op between several wisps to pool the buying power and get bulk rates. I run into businesses all the time that participate in things like this to be able to buy like the big guys. Sent from my iPhone WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] new FCC report out
Or how many people think they have fiber access to the Internet because they have cable. We all know the cable companies upgraded their networks to fiber a few years ago, right? Chuck On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:40 AM, Bret Clark wrote: On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 13:21 -0600, David E. Smith wrote: For all we know, most of these folks think that since cousin Jed fixed 'em up a wireless router, that's fixed wireless. David Smith MVN.net Yup...can't even begin to tell you that when I worked at a CLEC how many customers thought they had a wireless Internet connection because we'd provide them a wi-fi Linksys CPE. I'd tell them they have a DSL connection and they would say something to the effect yes and the wireless DSL is not working. It's not much different then when you tell someone on cable they have a copper Internet connection and inevitably they will argue with you that they don't get their Internet on copper, they get it through their cable company...can't tell you home many times I've gotten that argument :)! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Regulators may drop broadband line-sharing bombshell
I actually have a tape of that statement from the Cable Show in Washington last spring where it was being recommended as sound strategy to cable companies. Chuck On Feb 16, 2010, at 5:07 PM, David Hulsebus wrote: Not sure it would be good, maybe. It made me think of a post last year where the president of a cable company discussed providing middle mile to their competitors. I paraphrase We know who is growing, and who is not; we know what and where their need is, and when we want to we can cut them off. I'm not sure I want to buy from my direct competition. Dave Hulsebus Scottie Arnett wrote: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/02/regulators-may-drop-broadband-line-sharing-bombshell.ars?utm_source=rssutm_medium=rssutm_campaign=rss Could be good? Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality
On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote: make campaigns post their contributions on the internet. That's already available if the donation is over $99. Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality
On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:34 AM, RickG wrote: Jack, The only companies that can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to do it are the ones given a monopoly and power by guess who - big government! So, where is the problem? Is it the companies or the government? That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in its customers own best interests. If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation. Some restraint by government is necessary to keep the system from damaging itself. Part of your argument is specious since by definition once government restrains most monopolies, the only ones left are the ones it allows (but there's no real content in that statement). There are very few created monopolies (mail still and phones from a long time ago being two of them). Chuck On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to do it. BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh Frank Crawford wrote: YES Jack Unger wrote: I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown it in a bathtub? Glenn Kelley wrote: Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to oversee broadband. FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he gave to the Free State Foundation asked: (see First Do No Harm: A broadband plan for Amercia) “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the government be able to keep up?” Much more on the blog: www.HostMedic.com -- _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof net-neutrality
/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein regulationof net-neutrality
://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality
Yep, I agree with your statement (which was well put). Chuck On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Matt Liotta wrote: On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote: That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in its customers own best interests. If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation. It should be every capitalist desire to become a monopolist. The government's role should be to encourage businesses to innovate and grow towards being a monopoly while hoping the market has sufficient competition to stop that ultimate result. If not, then step in to prevent the monopoly from abusing its position. The government must only set the rules of the game and ensure market fairness through their rules. The government shouldn't participate in the market either with its own entity or by picking winners and losers through its actions. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality
The restraint is government. How do you restrain capitalism without the restraint of laws, including those that restrain monopolies? The implication of saying the only companies that have monopolies are the ones that government gives monopolies to is that without government monopolies, and without government interference, there would be no monopolies. I'm saying that government *has* to play a role in restraining capitalism from self-destructing. There's no question in my mind that I want as much freedom as possible...but I fully realize that if I'm given complete freedom to do as I want, I'll do things that are bad for me. Or bad for everyone else anyway. That's why wives and girlfriends are good for those of us who are men. Or for those of us who are women too I suppose ;-). Chuck On Feb 5, 2010, at 6:48 PM, RickG wrote: Chuck, where did I say unrestrained? The rest of my post is questions. So, I agree with your reply in as much as that nobody should be unrestrained. As far as history, to what do you refer to? -RickG On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.comwrote: On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:34 AM, RickG wrote: Jack, The only companies that can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to do it are the ones given a monopoly and power by guess who - big government! So, where is the problem? Is it the companies or the government? That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in its customers own best interests. If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation. Some restraint by government is necessary to keep the system from damaging itself. Part of your argument is specious since by definition once government restrains most monopolies, the only ones left are the ones it allows (but there's no real content in that statement). There are very few created monopolies (mail still and phones from a long time ago being two of them). Chuck On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to do it. BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh Frank Crawford wrote: YES Jack Unger wrote: I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown it in a bathtub? Glenn Kelley wrote: Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to oversee broadband. FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he gave to the Free State Foundation asked: (see First Do No Harm: A broadband plan for Amercia) “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the government be able to keep up?” Much more on the blog: www.HostMedic.com -- _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality
I agree-I've worked for essential monopolies (like defense contractors). Or maybe it's just big companies. In any case, the waste boggled my mind. To be clear my natural tendency is to want to own a market. However, I also recognize that you can't ever really do that, and if you do, no matter how good you are, people hate you because you're their only choice. If they have even a bad choice, you're fine, but they have to have a reasonable choice. I've seen examples of significant abuse of market position in a past life from the inside (which I won't enumerate for fear of legal repercussions, though the details are pretty fascinating, to me anyways...). What's interesting to me though is that the perpetrating company in this case is today ridiculed for its lack of innovation and not leading markets anymore. In other words, even though I believe the governments anti-monopoly powers are important, in this case I think the market corrected itself. Those abusive positions become addictive and then destructive. Chuck On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:10 PM, RickG wrote: Then I fail your test. I dont want a monopoly. In th epast, I've worked for both electric and phone companies and all it breeds is laziness and waste. In competitive markets, I find the challenge invigorating. -RickG On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com wrote: On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote: That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in its customers own best interests. If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation. It should be every capitalist desire to become a monopolist. The government's role should be to encourage businesses to innovate and grow towards being a monopoly while hoping the market has sufficient competition to stop that ultimate result. If not, then step in to prevent the monopoly from abusing its position. The government must only set the rules of the game and ensure market fairness through their rules. The government shouldn't participate in the market either with its own entity or by picking winners and losers through its actions. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality
-- _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof net-neutrality
On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:13 PM, RickG wrote: Now they dont fist fight, they pull out the guns and shoot ya! Are you saying things are better now? LOL! Well, you DO have a point there, depending on where you live ;-). The problem with the arguments on either side of this (and I thought about this as I replied) is that we're not just one group with one set of mores and one set way of doing things or one outlook. 50 or 60 years ago *maybe* it was easier, but it's pretty hard now. Though the battles with the mobs in places like Chicago do spring to mind from even back then... Where I come from, even though practically everyone had a gun, it was pretty much unthinkable to shoot a *person* with it unless it was a home invasion (and those never really happened that I ever knew). On the other hand, if you were in a gang in a prototypical inner city...well, let's just say that culture is very very different. So, making generalized statements, even the ones I made are always false in some sense. The one thing that I forgot to say before though was that in those early books, editorials, etc. that I read, what amazed me was the level of the vocabulary they used back then. It was sooo much larger than what is used now that it boggled my mind. It wasn't just a different set of words...it was a larger set of words. Chuck On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:13 PM, RickG wrote: Now they dont fist fight, they pull out the guns and shoot ya! Are you saying things are better now? On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.comwrote: On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in this country 50 to 60 years ago. Funny you should say that. I did some reading when I was a kid from books written from 1910 to 1935. Admittedly, I was an odd kid to be fascinated by how people saw the world 40 to 60 years earlier (this was the mid-to-late 1970's). The statements you're making here were almost exactly what people were saying then about generations that preceded them. Also, I spent a great deal of time talking to my grandfather (and later some of his friends) about what life was like when he grew up (born in 1913) and his experiences in the great depression (he worked in the CCC camps and was a train-vagabound, traveling across the country). They spent a LOT of time unemployed and just causing trouble or getting into trouble. Heavy drinking was much more accepted then than now. There are some interesting things that HAVE changed a lot since then. People got into fist fights a heck of a lot more easily back then ;-). There was a much greater sense of belonging to a neighborhood then compared to now. I see that as a loss but probably unavoidable. Moral and ethical standards have shifted some, but if anything, they are higher now. For example, people thought nothing of calling blacks the n-word and segregating them from whites. The definition of what is white itself has greatly expanded. This has changed even since I was a kid. I remember when in the 1960's we were moving from an all-catholic, white neighborhood, that we got obscene phone calls and rocks through our windows when a black family made an offer on our house (which we intended to accept until a neighbor topped their offer by 10%) to keep the house 'white'). If you don't see this as a dramatic, and important, shift in morals/ethics then I don't know what is. I see this as strongly positive. The level of volunteerism amongst men seems to be a lot higher now than it was then. Women being in the working world has decreased their participation, but I would count that as a higher level of ethics among men (because it represents a greater level of consciousness, not just a greater amount of time) and neutral among women. I see this as strongly positive. Men 50 and 60 years ago thought nothing about bingeing with the guys Friday nights (or every night). Abuse of drugs (including alcohol) has waxed and wained over time but is certainly lower now than it was 40 years ago, for example. Though I'm sure that still happens, it's really not considered normal any more. I see this as a strong change in morals/ethics. I'd honestly hate to see a world that reverted to the morals and ethics of 50 to 60 years ago. Maybe people worked harder (but I doubt it-EVERYONE I know words hard now, even with all the other things that compete for our attention) but as a society, discrimination was rampant, there wasn't nearly so many opportunities for upward mobility, men and women weren't treated nearly as equally, etc. We're not in such a bad place now. Chuck Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010
Re: [WISPA] Follow up article
: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ
-- -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ
In my 3 county area that I was developing an application for, there were 25,000 households without access to service and in one of those counties I was only covering the lower half of the unserved areas of the county. (And one partially unserved town in the County I live in was counting on a different provider to include them in their application, but that provider chose not to include them for one reason or another). It's very easy for me to believe the 24 million number since I'm in upstate NY. What was particularly interesting to me is that in the detailed census block studies I did, you would often see half of a census block (geographical half) had service and the other did not. 2/3rds of the houses in the census block were on the covered side, but it's very difficult to see how the other third would ever get service since it doesn't fit cable's density plan but isn't enough to justify anyone else building out to them either. Chuck On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I think so. 24 million just seems to be such a large number when you take into account the well known underreporting of our industry segment (and perhaps others?). It's hard to imagine that all of our hard work thus far has left so many homes untouched. At a lowly 40% take rate and $20 per month per account that's $288,000,000 in MONTHLY revenue left sitting idle. It just makes no sense to me. I can't get my arms around the idea that we've left that many homes with no options. I can see 24 million households with no service. I just can't see that many with no access to service. Heck, I have people that still have dialup internet even though they are within spitting distance of a tower. Do they count as one of the 24 million? laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ So, the salient points are, as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong): (1) Brian's numbers are 24 million currently HAVE NO ACCESS TO SERVICE. His number DOES NOT INCLUDE the number who have access but have chosen not to subscribe. (2) You haven't seen the underlying data yourself because much of it is private data that you didn't purchase yourself. You get to see the analysis from it because Brian HAS purchased it and combined it with publicly available data. Chuck On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:46 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Heya Brian, That's the take I had on this. That the number of households services was based on the 477 data. I didn't see any other data sets that would give an indication of the number of actually services households. If the study is based only on the consumers reported via the 477 it's likely to be quite inaccurate. People in government etc. are often quite amazed at the number of customers that I service out here. And I'm just one of a great many companies offering services in the area. I'm trying to get a handle on what additional sources of fact based information are out there. It's important to know what the real number is and yours seems very high to me. I don't think it'll be helpful in the long term if we have a number that gets blown out of the water in the upcoming census. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ Marlon, Read this take rate brief I wrote with one of the data companies I work with. It will take you about 10 minutes. It goes in to specific detail of how the study was conducted and the sources of the data. It was written for the 10 minute managers of the world. The key to being able to come up with the numbers was having the data at the census block level in the first place. Prior to July of this year there were no sources that I am aware of. The only information drawn from the form 477 is the total number of residential subscribers by state. The number of households without access to broadband has no relationship to the 477 data. That should be spelled out in the report. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ OK, as I understand that the report is based upon the 477 data? marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ Marlon, See the attached report. Go to Table 2 on page 11. Look at the last cell in the lower, right-hand corner. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote
Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ
The counties out here are apparently a lot bigger than your counties. One of the counties we have service in (but not one of the counties I was looking at for this grant) is 18% bigger than the State of Rhode Island. Chuck On Jan 21, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: You've got an area with 25k households close by and you don't have anything in there? No one else has anything there either? That's 2.5 times MORE than my ENTIRE COUNTY has in it! Man I could be making a lot more money if I lived nearly anywhere else! marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ In my 3 county area that I was developing an application for, there were 25,000 households without access to service and in one of those counties I was only covering the lower half of the unserved areas of the county. (And one partially unserved town in the County I live in was counting on a different provider to include them in their application, but that provider chose not to include them for one reason or another). It's very easy for me to believe the 24 million number since I'm in upstate NY. What was particularly interesting to me is that in the detailed census block studies I did, you would often see half of a census block (geographical half) had service and the other did not. 2/3rds of the houses in the census block were on the covered side, but it's very difficult to see how the other third would ever get service since it doesn't fit cable's density plan but isn't enough to justify anyone else building out to them either. Chuck On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I think so. 24 million just seems to be such a large number when you take into account the well known underreporting of our industry segment (and perhaps others?). It's hard to imagine that all of our hard work thus far has left so many homes untouched. At a lowly 40% take rate and $20 per month per account that's $288,000,000 in MONTHLY revenue left sitting idle. It just makes no sense to me. I can't get my arms around the idea that we've left that many homes with no options. I can see 24 million households with no service. I just can't see that many with no access to service. Heck, I have people that still have dialup internet even though they are within spitting distance of a tower. Do they count as one of the 24 million? laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ So, the salient points are, as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong): (1) Brian's numbers are 24 million currently HAVE NO ACCESS TO SERVICE. His number DOES NOT INCLUDE the number who have access but have chosen not to subscribe. (2) You haven't seen the underlying data yourself because much of it is private data that you didn't purchase yourself. You get to see the analysis from it because Brian HAS purchased it and combined it with publicly available data. Chuck On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:46 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Heya Brian, That's the take I had on this. That the number of households services was based on the 477 data. I didn't see any other data sets that would give an indication of the number of actually services households. If the study is based only on the consumers reported via the 477 it's likely to be quite inaccurate. People in government etc. are often quite amazed at the number of customers that I service out here. And I'm just one of a great many companies offering services in the area. I'm trying to get a handle on what additional sources of fact based information are out there. It's important to know what the real number is and yours seems very high to me. I don't think it'll be helpful in the long term if we have a number that gets blown out of the water in the upcoming census. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ Marlon, Read this take rate brief I wrote with one of the data companies I work with. It will take you about 10 minutes. It goes in to specific detail of how the study was conducted and the sources of the data. It was written for the 10 minute managers of the world. The key to being able to come up with the numbers was having the data at the census block level in the first place. Prior to July of this year there were no sources that I am aware of. The only information drawn from the form 477 is the total number of residential subscribers by state. The number
Re: [WISPA] This comes up again and again - value of network
10 months only if the $49.95 is pure profit. Presumably the ROI is really more like 40 months assuming you keep the customer for that long. That or I'm having a brain melt-down and confusing something. There was just recently (in the past week or so) a long discussion of valuations on the WISPA members list. You might look in the archives for a range of ways to look at the question. Chuck On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Well at $49.95 monthly your ROI is 10monthswill he finance out of income? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] This comes up again and again - value of network There's a guy started a small network in an area I serve, but quite distant from me, and he's wanting to get out. He offered to sell me his customers and his network, and then finally he quoted me a price for his network.Not the customers but just the network and the customer owns his own cpe.I buy the network and inherit his customers - that was the deal. It works out to $500 / customer. For infrastructure, that seems... well... REALLY high to me. It consists MOSTLY of UBNT stuff and some bandwidth controls, etc, I don't really understand. It's mostly bridged, and has no public IP's, it was apparently NAT'd to a cable connection somewhere. Looking at my rural deployments and the approximate cost- even of the solar/wind powered sites... I'm well under $100/customer for network infrastructure outside of the CPE. Am I the one way different, or is he? Or, is this wide range normal? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's
.There is, however, no actual difference between Congress controlling access to our needs and the mob doing it. -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:42 AM To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com; WISPA Board Members List bo...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's I have been of the thought process that Broadband needs to be compared to electricity and telephone service expansion and deployments of the early 1900's. Here is a nice article that draws a direct comparison to electricity (and municipal networks). Should be good food for though to all: The Killer App of 1900 http://publicola.net/?p=20687 by Glenn Fleishman techn...@publicola.net, 12/11/2009, 11:18 AM It’s instructional to look back 100 years, not long after the first electrical generation plants were built to bring power to towns and cities, to assess the situation we find ourselves in with broadband availability today. http://publicola.net/?p=20687 Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Report: Broadband stimulus funds won't suffice
Nicely put. The same thought has crossed my mind about the diatribes people write on these lists. Chuck On Dec 13, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Tim Sylvester wrote: Yes, I am amazed. Amazed by the bitching and whining about government on this list by people who ... - sell wireless service using spectrum owned by everyone and allocated to them by the FCC for free or low cost. - sell access to the Internet, a network originally funded and developed by DARPA and later funded by the National Science Foundation. - drive on roads funded with taxpayer dollars and maintained by the government. - sell Internet service in rural areas to farmers that receive billions in government subsidies per year. - connect CPE equipment to electrical service that was funded by the Rural Electric Administration. - use VA health services. - will use Medicare and Social Security when they retire. - call the police and fire department when they need help. - send their kids to public schools. Amazing. Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
On Dec 6, 2009, at 3:24 AM, MDK wrote: It's my understanding that for purposes of insurance, the rules that govern 1099 work are being changed dramatically.The subcontractor status is mostly going to go away. This will mean that if someone runs his own business, but only works for you, bye bye status... and that includes workman's comp, unemployment, withholdings, etc. That has always been true, at least in New York State (I don't know when it's a state issue or a fed issue, but either way, that is a serious no-no out here). I guess Fed. Ex. seems to do it, but I think that's a different set of rules. Heaven only knows if this is in whatever abomination I guess I buy into the fact that there's a problem and a solution is needed. Unfortunately, when there are 100 different views about the solution, you do end up with something less than ideal. Personally, I wish it was single payer, period, and I could forget about it. With how fast the costs rise out here, and with the changes in the programs every year (including what is, and is not, covered), I'd give a lot to get out of having to deal with it. Chuck is finally produced, but the intent is definitely to pretty much end this kind of stuff. One of the ways that was in one of the bills, was to force all individuals who work under that status to buy insurance. -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance H.. I feel an increase in the use of the 1099 form would be the easy answer. I lived as a 1099 for many years. I'm with you on your feelings of get all the way in or get all the way out. I'd prefer they get all the way in and just do it because, honestly, it will happen in the end anyhow. Why put it off and cause more suffering? I know, politics doesn't belong here usually and I won't be hit like that but it is an issue for some of us. (And as far as I'm concerned they can give gays marriage also and just get it the heck out of the way finally, sheeesh! Why should I be the only one to suffer through marriage???) But the reality is that many companies are going to go to making who they can a 1099 contractor and that's going to open up another can of left in the sun worms. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] health insurance Hi, What are everyone else's plans if this new health insurance plan gets passed in Congress? We fall in the 25-100 employee category, so they are estimating our health insurance costs would go up $412 per employee for us (we already cover 100% of the costs for our employees). So, basically this would force us to go to a subcontractor type work-force (at least for 5-10 of our current employees) to get us under the 25 employee limit and offer less benefits for everyone in the company. Once again, it seems our government is stepping in where it doesn't belong. Either take over the health care system 100% (including funding it), or leave it alone. Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Access Control
and network management | echo -e |--| $SP private 10.0.0.1 .1.3.6.1.4.1.12394.1.1.8.1.0 i 1 $SP private 10.0.0.1 .1.3.6.1.4.1.12394.1.1.3.1.0 i 3 $SP private 10.0.0.1 .1.3.6.1.4.1.12394.1.1.3.2.0 i 1 echo -e UserFilteringOption `$SG private 10.0.0.1 .1.3.6.1.4.1.12394.1.1.8.1.0` echo -e AccessToNwMng `$SG private 10.0.0.1 .1.3.6.1.4.1.12394.1.1.3.1.0` echo -e NwMngFilter `$SG private 10.0.0.1 .1.3.6.1.4.1.12394.1.1.3.2.0` echo -e Network Filtering all setup echo -e |--| echo -e | rebooting radio to new settings - please wait 60 seconds | echo -e |--| $SP private 10.0.0.1 .1.3.6.1.4.1.12394.1.1.2.1.0 i 2 sleep 60s echo -e |--| echo -e | pinging radio with new IP number | echo -e |--| ping -n -c 4 $IP echo -e |--| echo -e | done. ready for use | echo -e |--| On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 02:22:57PM -0500, Jeremy Parr wrote: Before I reinvent the wheel with an Expect script or SNMP query, does anyone have scripts written for automating bandwidth/MAC allocations for the VL? It does not support RADIUS, so any automated changes need to be pushed via telnet or SNMP. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] test
Dammit Robert. We _all_ agreed, including you, that we weren't going to tell him that! sigh Chuck ;-) On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:11 PM, Robert West wrote: We were ignoring you. We've been telling secrets. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] test have not seen any msg for a few days... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing (time of use billing)
It seems to me a long time ago (back in the dial up days), we restricted people from 8 AM to midnight but let them go full out and abuse the heck out of their connection if they so desired from midnight to 8 AM. We didn't *bill* differently. Or maybe we just wanted to. I know we *told* customers that's what we did ;-). Chuck On Nov 15, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Tim Sylvester wrote: Talking about electric billing in this thread made me think of time-of-use billing and tiered billing rate schedules for electrical usage. PGE has multiple rate schedules. The standard consumer rate schedule starts at $0.115 per KWh and grows to $0.44 per KWh for usage over 300% of the baseline. They also have time-of-use billing schedules which start at $0.087 per KWh during off-peak times in the summer and move up to $0.297 per KWh during peak times. Has anyone considered tiered usage billing or time-of-use billing for Internet access? It would be complicated to implement and also difficult to explain to customers. If Bit Torrent users are the biggest consumers of bandwidth on a network you could benefit by encouraging them to use the network during off hours. Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing (time of use billing)
On Nov 15, 2009, at 11:47 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Oh my that is insane kw/h pricing. Happen to know what there buy back rates are? Here I pay .07 kw/h with a buy back of .02 kw/h. New York State requires buyback at the same rate as the sell rate. So it'd be .07 kw/h both ways. The utilities hate it of course, but NYS's philosophy is, you've built the grid with guaranteed returns and we need to diversify the supply, so tough. I know they (the utilities) tried to get this changed a few years ago but I don't think they were successful (I haven't been following it lately so maybe it changed and I missed it). Chuck I have thought of doing time rates, but for now I turn down p2p, etc, during peek times and kick it up at off peek. This worked well till the major push over to encrypted connections Tim Sylvester wrote: Talking about electric billing in this thread made me think of time-of-use billing and tiered billing rate schedules for electrical usage. PGE has multiple rate schedules. The standard consumer rate schedule starts at $0.115 per KWh and grows to $0.44 per KWh for usage over 300% of the baseline. They also have time-of-use billing schedules which start at $0.087 per KWh during off-peak times in the summer and move up to $0.297 per KWh during peak times. Has anyone considered tiered usage billing or time-of-use billing for Internet access? It would be complicated to implement and also difficult to explain to customers. If Bit Torrent users are the biggest consumers of bandwidth on a network you could benefit by encouraging them to use the network during off hours. Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] example of needing middle mile
Ironically, years ago, they offered to buy us for $5.5 million or something like that. Had a *great* meal at the Gothem Bar and Grill in Manhatten, including a $250 bottle of Petite Syrah as they wooed us... ;-). Guess I'm glad we demurred. Though having a few mil in cash might have been nice too... Chuck On Nov 13, 2009, at 12:14 PM, jp wrote: http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=295654ac=PHnws Bankrupt Fairpoint backbilling and threatening an ISP/CLEC because Fairpoint doesn't want to continue an interconnection agreement. It's a bit sensationalized (according to my conversation with the ISP in the story), but shows how the big telcos care more about protecting their monopoly than promoting business, broadband, or innovation. This is why Maine needs a middle mile ARRA network such as has been applied for. Some states probably do not, but we do in Maine. Fairpoint is hopeless in every respect. -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
Actually, that is not what Rick was suggesting as I understood it. At one level he's saying he should be able to charge the company who is NOT in his service territory for responding to a customer enquiry (looking at a web page, downloading a movie). Your cell company charges *you* for your minutes, not the person you're calling. The person you're calling might, or might not, be charged for your call, but your cell company cannot charge them unless it's the same cell company. Rick's other argument (in parenthesis) was that we should charge the local ISP that hosts the business (say Netflix). Though that might be possible I'd sure hate to start getting bills from Verizon because one of my customers hosts a web site that is popular with Verizon customers. I don't see anything good coming out of that ;-). Chuck On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Gary Garrett wrote: You sound like the cell phone company. I am convinced the big failure in my business model is I charge by the month while the cellular guys charge by the minute. -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
On Nov 7, 2009, at 9:35 PM, RickG wrote: For $100 a month per phone and the internet access is relatively slow. Not really an apples to apples comparison. In my home, I want unlimited electicity, natural gas, and water too! Ah, but information wants to be free! See, we can all trade quips grin! Chuck On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: The cellular guys don't charge by the minute... I have an unlimited plan on my cell phone. I can also get unlimited text and internet access for $9.95/mo extra. People don't want to guess what their internet bills are going to be from month to month. Would you want that at your own home? Travis Microserv Gary Garrett wrote: You sound like the cell phone company. I am convinced the big failure in my business model is I charge by the month while the cellular guys charge by the minute. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, You are talking about having to add additional resources (radius, etc.) to track it. Then you have to bill it. Then you get to deal with the phone calls from users that say My computer wasn't even turned on during those times. Remove the charge or I will go elsewhere. So, even that one extra phone call costs you money (because you have to think about scaling). Imagine if you have 100x the number of customers you have now... does the same solution work? Probably not. The easier solution would be to call that customer and get them to upgrade to the next plan up (which would provide higher speed as well). This works very well for us... and then I have that guaranteed extra income each month, even if they don't use it. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
On Nov 12, 2009, at 2:02 PM, RickG wrote: Chuck, That's the point. The consumer is NOT paying for excessive bandwidth use. When bandwidth runs us over $100/meg and one customer uses $300's worth for $50/month there is something wrong. Right, but if that's the case you either charge them or lose the customer (on purpose I mean). You don't try to charge the organization they are downloading from. The unlimited bandwidth model only works when you can oversubscribe the bandwidth. With bandwidth usage climbing exponentially, the model will soon break. Furthermore, some educated consumers are finally realizing that they are subsidizing the bandwidth hogs. They ask how is that fair? As far as my Netflix idea, I agree my original idea is probably not a good solution. Yep, that's what I was trying to say. I know you're just batting ideas around, which is always healthy. Chuck I was also a GM at a cable company and maybe we should use them as a template? HBO, and the other premium channels charge the cable cos for the customer's usage which we passed on to the customer for a profit. Both HBO and the cable co makes money and everyone wins. Really, I'm just kicking around ideas because something has to happen. I'm not saying I have the right ideas. As far as the phone companies, AFAIK the LECS still have an exchange rates for calls that terminate on another network. It's just transparent to the end users. At any rate, this discussion is much needed. Thanks to all on this list for their ingenuity which makes this the best business field to be in (IMHO)! -RickG On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.comwrote: On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:25 PM, RickG wrote: In the past, l worked for two electric companies. Their business models were dependant on meters. As far as internet access, Compuserve and AOL had the right idea from the start. Instead entrepanuers took advantage of their weakness at the time. What we are now seeing is the downside of the $50/month all you can eat business model. When usage was low due to less apps, it worked fine but were now seeing exponential growth of usage. Besides that, one thing we (ISP's) are really missing, are agreements between each other for payment of access to our networks. For instance, the phone companies pay each other for access to each others networks. I realize this is very complex but shouldnt Netflix (or their provider) pay us for utilziation of our networks? I do not see why they (Netflix) should, no. The consumer is already paying you for it. Netflix is not another ISP. It's a phone call. My phone company does not charge my local hardware store for calling them if they are with a different phone company any more than it charges my mom when I call her back in Minnesota (I live in New York). My *mom's* phone company might charge her for the the call, depending on the plan, but that's about as far as it goes. The provider idea could bite us hard. Note that originally the settlement fees were demanded by the established phone companies to mild the upstart cell companies for revenues. They weren't smart when they started those agreements and it came back to bite them later when CLECs exploited the ideas in novel ways with the advent of the Internet where you could guarantee certain incoming-only calls. But they aren't going to be so stupid as to not think of those loop holes a second time ;-). Chuck -RickG On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.comwrote: I do agree with you and that works if there are other options. One customer who was downloading 160G, came from DSL and moved into this neighborhood and now wants high speed where we are the only option. It is only a matter of time before others are using Netflix and others. They come in all gaming consoles now. Why not have the customers pay for upgrades? If there is a high demand for services, the demand drives growth; or fees stifle demand. Maybe my logic is flawed, but if 5% of the customer base is straining the network, shouldn't they pay more? Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing 10% of your customers will use 90% of your resources. Direct that 10% customer base to cable or DSL and stop worrying about adding complexity to your network. Travis Microserv Chuck Profito wrote: Marlon does this and smiles every time he signs a Bandwidth Hog! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Metered Billing We are on the verge
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
On Nov 12, 2009, at 2:14 PM, RickG wrote: LOL, All in good fun! To be clear, I really dont want free electricity, gas, or water because you get what you pay for every time. On the serious side, i disagree with your statement. Really, it's just a quote, not a statement by me per se. I don't agree with it entirely either-though the meaning is that the replication cost for information has gone to nearly zero with modern technology. Chuck Some information wants or needs to be free. Especially public domain info such is how to get your drivers license, or info on the nearest state park, etc. But on the other hand, proprietary information should not be free. Such as Coca-Colas recipe or make Pyrex dishes. Contrary to the recent generations thought process that everything should be free - that model doesnt not work in a capitalist environment. We are still capitalist arent we? -RickG On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.comwrote: On Nov 7, 2009, at 9:35 PM, RickG wrote: For $100 a month per phone and the internet access is relatively slow. Not really an apples to apples comparison. In my home, I want unlimited electicity, natural gas, and water too! Ah, but information wants to be free! See, we can all trade quips grin! Chuck On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: The cellular guys don't charge by the minute... I have an unlimited plan on my cell phone. I can also get unlimited text and internet access for $9.95/mo extra. People don't want to guess what their internet bills are going to be from month to month. Would you want that at your own home? Travis Microserv Gary Garrett wrote: You sound like the cell phone company. I am convinced the big failure in my business model is I charge by the month while the cellular guys charge by the minute. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, You are talking about having to add additional resources (radius, etc.) to track it. Then you have to bill it. Then you get to deal with the phone calls from users that say My computer wasn't even turned on during those times. Remove the charge or I will go elsewhere. So, even that one extra phone call costs you money (because you have to think about scaling). Imagine if you have 100x the number of customers you have now... does the same solution work? Probably not. The easier solution would be to call that customer and get them to upgrade to the next plan up (which would provide higher speed as well). This works very well for us... and then I have that guaranteed extra income each month, even if they don't use it. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] customers dogs chewing on CAT5
Feed and Grain stores sell bitters, but I find that any determined dog will ignore the bitters and chew away. In fact, just this morning I coincidentally happened to have some bitters (gf bought it a while back) and thought oh what the hell and sprayed it on something a dog was chewing on. The dog went right back to it, licked it, shook his head, licked his chops, and licked the wood again. Kept doing this, whining at times, until it was all clean and he could chew again ;-). However, I *have* found that Habanero Tabasco Hot Sauce works 100% of the time. That's like 10,000 times hotter than normal jalapeno hot sauce and they do not like and do not go back for a second lick. Chuck On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Greg wrote: Your local feed and grain or pet store should have aerosol dog repellent. Greg On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I've had several customers that have had their dog chew on the Cat5 going from the house to the TV tower and some of them multiple times. Anyone have ideas on how to keep the dog from chewing on the wire? I've got one customer on their 3rd Cat5 run and going out right now to replace a different customer that will be his 3rd one as well. I'm about ready to shoot the stinking dog.. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
Josh, It kind of depends where you live, just like it does for any 3G service. Where I personally live, ATT's 3G service is excellent. I switched from Verizon and have better coverage and better performance. I'm sure the reverse is true in other areas...but you really cannot legitimately make blanket statements like that when they need coverage in a specific relatively small area. Chuck On Oct 17, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I strongly advise avoiding ATT's 3G service. I haven't been impressed at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right
Dude, you're talking about France. What do you expect? ;-) Chuck On Oct 16, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Jayson Baker wrote: My thoughts exactly. A human right. Duh? On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Seriously my brain hurts that is so dumb. A human right? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Thanks for your post Dave. I didn't know this was going on. David Hulsebus wrote: FYI From SANS Newsbites Vol. 11 Num. 82 : Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right --Finland Declares 1Mb Broadband Access a Legal Right (October 14 15, 2009) The Finnish government has enacted a law making 1Mb broadband Internet access a legal right. The law will take effect in July 2010. The country may eventually guarantee its citizens the right to 100Mb broadband connections. Finland's Transport and Communications Ministry spokesperson Laura Vikkonen was quoted as saying that We think [the Internet is] something you cannot live without in modern society. Like banking services or water or electricity, you need an Internet connection. Earlier this year, France declared Internet access to be a human right. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2009/10/15/finland-makes-broadband-internet-a-legal-right.aspx Dave Hulsebus Portative Technologies, LLC www.portative.com -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right
On Oct 16, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Robert West wrote: I can see somewhere in the near future, after all major technologies converge into devices that run on whatever version of the internet we will have at that time, that this would be a feasible argument however at this moment and probably in the next 10 years the vast majority of us will be able to live and survive perfectly fine with no internet. I don't understand the 1mg limit for the human right. Keep in mind, it's a *legal* right (soon) in Finland, not a human right. People are conflating the French decree with Finland's. Chuck Most information, other than video, can be had at mere dial up speed. How would slower internet speeds be the difference between life or death? My 15 year old. Dad! If I can't see the Whack-a-kitty video on YouTube I'm just gonna die! Okay, that much I DO understand. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hulsebus Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right FYI From SANS Newsbites Vol. 11 Num. 82 : Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right --Finland Declares 1Mb Broadband Access a Legal Right (October 14 15, 2009) The Finnish government has enacted a law making 1Mb broadband Internet access a legal right. The law will take effect in July 2010. The country may eventually guarantee its citizens the right to 100Mb broadband connections. Finland's Transport and Communications Ministry spokesperson Laura Vikkonen was quoted as saying that We think [the Internet is] something you cannot live without in modern society. Like banking services or water or electricity, you need an Internet connection. Earlier this year, France declared Internet access to be a human right. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2009/10/15/finland-m akes-broadband-internet-a-legal-right.aspx Dave Hulsebus Portative Technologies, LLC www.portative.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
On Oct 11, 2009, at 1:33 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I didn't apply for two main reasons. 1: they want the whole company and don't tell you when (if ever) you'll get it back. You can't sell the company without approval for 10 years. The general terms of that approval were that you couldn't be asking for so little for the company that it resulted in a windfall for the buyer and the buyer had to maintain the terms of the contract you sign with the government to get the money. I keep hearing that, but I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the NOFA. It's not in the ARRA, and I asked that specific question in Billings. I got a shrug of the shoulders. IIRC, it's in the FAQ. Originally the statements (and I think this is what the NOFA said) were for the life of the equipment being purchased. However, that was later clarified to be 10 years. I'm not sure 10 years is better than life but shrug. It isn't unreasonable. The final terms of this requirement are worked out in the contract you negotiate once you're awarded the funds (you don't actually get anything just because you won the award...you have to sign a mutual contract first). As I understand it, it's far more than that. You can't sell any assets without government approval either. Want to trade in that old install van? Make sure you clear it with the boss first. What about old gear that you upgrade from? Just think about how hard it would be to get anything done if you had to ask permission for nearly all of it, from a desk jocky, in DC. You can sell any asset that didn't come from the grant. If you had that van before, or bought the van not-on-the-grant, then you do with it as you please. If they paid for the equipment, it's only fair and right that they make sure you're not just buying it, and then selling it to make a profit that has nothing to do with providing the service they are paying you to provide. They have some ownership rights on the equipment you're trying to sell since they paid for at least half, and up to 80%, of its cost. As a taxpayer, I just don't see this as an unreasonable attempt to prevent fraud or unjust enrichment at my expense. I'd be upset if something like this *weren't* in the requirements. 2: My areas are already covered better than what's allowed under the grants. We've done a good job in the past and our reward is government funded potential competition, gotta love that one. Yeah, having government funded competition sucks. So does having competition that is cross-subsidized by phone service revenues. Or television revenues. Or investors that don't know what they are doing. In the end there isn't anything really special about the funding coming from the Feds versus many other sources we have to compete around. It hurts the same either way. Oh yeah, 3: If you take Obama money you are required to wholesale access to the network at fair and reasonable rates. You're said this before and you've been told before this is not the case. Yest it is. It's in the NOFA. You have to open your network at fair and reasonable rates. I asked about this in Billings too. Again, I was told to submit the question in writing as there is no definition of fair and reasonable already established. You're conflating two separate statements in the NOFA and you apparently either didn't ask a clear question or you didn't ask someone who understood the question (neither are your fault of course...if it wasn't clear to you it's hard to ask a clear question, and you can't help the understanding of the designated responder to your question) or the answer hadn't been determined yet. In any case, there are TWO separate issues. The first is interconnection. The second is wholesale. You DO NOT HAVE TO OPEN YOUR NETWORK TO WHOLESALE ACCESS. In fact, in the application it is two separate questions. The first you have to answer yes to or you cannot apply. The second clearly states it's optional, but worth extra credit under BTOP if you agree to do it. You are required to support Interconnection at reasonable rates on the part of the network you built with government funds. For a small provider that's an almost completely meaningless requirement. Really? Lets say I do a county wide network. I double my coverage zone, or more, with grant funds. I now have to allow interconnection, wholesale, You do not have to offer wholesale to anyone whatsoever if that's your preference. And the two (interconnection and wholesale) are NOT equivalent. The only reason I'm saying that *again* is because the statement about wholesale could
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I didn't apply for two main reasons. 1: they want the whole company and don't tell you when (if ever) you'll get it back. You can't sell the company without approval for 10 years. The general terms of that approval were that you couldn't be asking for so little for the company that it resulted in a windfall for the buyer and the buyer had to maintain the terms of the contract you sign with the government to get the money. It isn't unreasonable. The final terms of this requirement are worked out in the contract you negotiate once you're awarded the funds (you don't actually get anything just because you won the award...you have to sign a mutual contract first). 2: My areas are already covered better than what's allowed under the grants. We've done a good job in the past and our reward is government funded potential competition, gotta love that one. Yeah, having government funded competition sucks. So does having competition that is cross-subsidized by phone service revenues. Or television revenues. Or investors that don't know what they are doing. In the end there isn't anything really special about the funding coming from the Feds versus many other sources we have to compete around. It hurts the same either way. Oh yeah, 3: If you take Obama money you are required to wholesale access to the network at fair and reasonable rates. You're said this before and you've been told before this is not the case. You are required to support Interconnection at reasonable rates on the part of the network you built with government funds. For a small provider that's an almost completely meaningless requirement. For large multi-region buildouts, that's got some meaning. You were NOT, however, required to support wholesale. That's a bonus. Anyone know what that really means? Me neither. I figure if someone comes here I'll just make them sell to me at good rates and I'll not have to deal with the grant hassles. You can interconnect with their network. If they are small it presumably means you set up a direction connection with them so that your traffic goes directly to them and vice versa without needing to transit to the outside world. Interconnection wasn't defined really well in the NOFA however. It could also mean another provider could ask to use your network to reach the outside world. However, you get to negotiate for that access on reasonable terms, which means you could make a profit on whatever it is you provide them. Unless you agreed to arbitration (an option in the application), you couldn't be forced to do it really (since it'd be easy enough to set unworkable terms). A starting point for the negotiation would probably have been what would access cost from the big guys to your location? since that's presumably a reasonable place to be price wise. Chuck marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] American Dollar. Was: Re: Barriers to WISP growth
...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.commailto:ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity
Re: [WISPA] American Dollar. Was: Re: Barriers to WISP growth
today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] American Dollar. Was: Re: Barriers to WISP growth
/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] American Dollar. Was: Re: Barriers to WISP growth
Yep, very true. How come we never use the Chat list for these discussions? ;-) Chuck On Oct 9, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: What gets scary is when countries like China and Saudi Arabia start talking about not pegging to the dollar, or even selling commodities based on the dollar. Then it's a whole new ball game and who knows who will set the standard. We have an artificial advantage with the dollar, and if that goes away, we don't have as much fudge room. Randy Chuck Bartosch wrote: On Oct 9, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Robert West wrote: It will never, stay worth what it is today. As long as there are people out there looking to make a little extra cash, it will always creep up. It's the nature of free enterprise. There have been times when the dollar's value has gone up, not down. By policy on a national level we don't ever want to see the 1930's again though. The dollar's value creeps down from inflation because in general we want inflation...just not very much of it. If the dollar's value is rising, then spending money today instead of tomorrow means you lose value. That has the effect of dampening economic growth in those rare times when people are acting rationally (though perhaps rare, it does act like a general force). With some mild inflation, you're better off to some extent spending money now, compared to putting it in a mattress at least. Anyway, deflation is often described as a bigger threat to us, if it were to occur again, than inflation. The struggle with inflation isn't to eliminate it but to keep it predictable and relatively low-but not zero. Chuck Let's just admit we're old. :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] American Dollar. Was: Re: Barriers to WISP growth 5% increase of costs don't stop at just bread. It costs 5% more to ship. Your WISP gear. Gas and truck. Payroll. If it costs more to get into the US it costs more to get to you. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I understand that so instead of bread costing $2.00 per loaf, it goes up to $2.10. So because of that fear, everyone wants to find a different place to put money besides a bank? Seems strange to me. Travis Microserv Jeff Ehman wrote: Imports cost us way more money. That may not directly affect any individual consumer, but it does impact nearly every manufacturer. Cost of production increases greatly. The only way they can make money is to increase their prices to distributors who in turn have to raise the price to individual consumers. It creates inflation. -Jeff Ehman From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] American Dollar. Was: Re: Barriers to WISP growth I've never understood this thinking... who cares if the dollar is worth less to the rest of the world? If it will still buy groceries, or pay my power bill, why does it matter? Travis Microserv RickG wrote: put some money in the bank The question is: which currency? With the dollar falling (or failing) what good is it going to do in the bank? I guess I'll just keep pouring it back into the company because its gonna be worthless soon. Any other ideas guys? -RickG On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Yeah, what he said! I'm gonna work REALLY hard to pay down debt and put some money in the bank over the next 3 or 4 years. I want to be ready to pick those companies up. marlon - Original Message - From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.commailto:coelh...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company
Re: [WISPA] American Dollar. Was: Re: Barriers to WISP growth
That brings up an interesting factor. China is completely stuck with us as long as the dollar is cheap. They bought them when the dollar was dear (over time of course, and with a sliding range of values) but if they even started to unload now, not only would they take a huge hit compared to what they comparatively paid, they would also drive down the dollar's value even further making it even more difficult for them to unload. In other words, at a whim they could screw us royally...but they'd have to screw themselves to do it. Definitely an interesting problem. And they don't have a short term fix to this issue. As much as they talk about an alternative currency, they can't afford to have that happen when the dollar is down. And they are more-or-less forced to keep loaning to the US government for the same basic reason, until they decide to bite the bullet anyway. So, the sky isn't falling. Yet. Chuck On Oct 9, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Daniel Mullen wrote: I just cannot keep quiet on this any more. Gold, in US Dollars, was $1045 and change this morning. That sounds high, but it was higher, in constant currency terms when you look at a basket of currencies. Yes, oil still is priced in nice U.S. Dollars, and everyone is glad to have them. So far, so good. The folks in the Middle East buy German cars, use European adult personal entertainment, and go shopping - either in the sparkling new massive shopping mall in town, or again, somewhere in Europe - and the dollars get converted eventually into Euros. I used to get 80¢ to the Euro. Now it is $1.46. You can do the math on that. As long as China continues to be the 'sister nation' to the United States of America, keeping its currency fairly closely pegged to the U.S. Dollar, then everything will be fine. All the Asian countries will do their best to work on U.S. Dollar terms so as to stay competitive vis-a-vis China. But China is now sitting on TWO TRILLION - that is 2,000,000,000,000 - U.S. Dollars, and wondering what to do. If they wanted to take over the world today, instead of merely the entire Asia-Pacific region and Africa, they could simply cut the line and then let the U.S.A. dangle in the wind. As it is, China is going around the world buying everything you can imagine: years worth of factory equipment from Germany, minerals in Africa, oil and gas everywhere, iron ore from Brazil, uranium from Australia, and on and on. You should see the pictures: gigantic barges being loaded with enormous open spools of copper, a good ten feet in diameter, to be stockpiled in China, and more ore than you could possibly fathom. And now they are buying gold: gold and more gold, and the government is telling its citizens to also buy gold. Simply put, they are turning the greenbacks into hard assets. None of this will bother you, because all your gear is made from parts which are priced in U.S. Dollars, and China is keeping a good lid on things - until they stop. When the Sheiks - or Mr. Chavez - decides they want some pretty thing from Europe, and see how small their wallets are, the price of oil - yes, in U.S. Dollars - will go to the moon. The fact that oil is priced in dollars really means nothing. It is the value that the producer gets for the specific volume sold that matters, and as long as the rest of the world is getting more expensive by comparison, the more dollars the sellers will want to ensure they can keep on buying those things, regardless of what the dollar buys for you in your own backyard. By the way, milk is cheap everywhere now - in Belgium the farmers started to spray it on their fields rather than sell it, just to make demonstrate how low it has gone. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
No please, let's not go there Josh. Obviously lots of people in the world, not just in the US are going to disagree vehemently with you. That's a completely useless conversation for a public list. Private conversation over a beer? Sure ;-). In a worst case, what you see as a banana gone bad someone else will see as a banana at perfect ripeness. One thing maybe the FCC or other branch of government could do is issue regulations that would help expedite tower zoning approvals. Right now a large part of the review process just drives up the cost for no discernible benefit. As an example, in upstate NY a firm a few years ago shopped a boiler plate zoning requirement to many of the little towns up this way. As a result, if you want to merely change the type of antenna on a tower, or just add to it, you (legally, though I know a lot of firms don't actually do it) have to go through a full zoning hearing, which requires a $5K to $7.5K fee and includes paying a town's consultant to review the application. Crazy waste of time and money. (Yes, you can blame the problem on the town government, but people do have a right to set up their own rules by-and-large, and that's what these towns have done, even though they don't understand what they've done exactly. It's a place where the Fed. government might be able to step in though and set some intelligent ground rules). Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
The problem I've seen in general is that a lot of areas are cherry- picked. Anything with any reasonable density (say, the Village centers in a Town) already have access. You can't really make a business case based on what people can afford to roll out service in many areas out here because of the geography. Yet, there's public good, not just individual good, done by providing access to these folks. So, yes, I think the stimulus funding can be a good thing. The problem is, I fear it's going to be co-opted for applications that really didn't need the funding in the first place. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Robert West wrote: One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this free money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the easy areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
In general, in the rural areas I work in, spectrum availability isn't ever the issue. In cities and sometimes village centers, yes, but not in the areas that should be addressed with broadband funding. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Robert West wrote: Yes. However my point in it all is that if the government wants to help then cash really isn't the answer. You can throw money at anything and still have no useable result. Cash versus spectrum. I need tools, not money. With the correct spectrum we wouldn't have to worry about cherry picking. I know, I know, everyone gripes about spectrum availability but it's because it's true. That would change the entire makeup of wireless internet. That would be in the public good and, after all, the public DOES own the airwaves but our representatives use it as a profit center instead of the original intent of serving the public good. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 1:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth The problem I've seen in general is that a lot of areas are cherry- picked. Anything with any reasonable density (say, the Village centers in a Town) already have access. You can't really make a business case based on what people can afford to roll out service in many areas out here because of the geography. Yet, there's public good, not just individual good, done by providing access to these folks. So, yes, I think the stimulus funding can be a good thing. The problem is, I fear it's going to be co-opted for applications that really didn't need the funding in the first place. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Robert West wrote: One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this free money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the easy areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Waverider Vs Alvarion VL 900
You shouldn't have to worry too much about the old product because I think they did a 100% field upgrade at no cost to owners of those AUs, right? You should still check, but I would hope it'd be unusual to find an upgraded unit for sale. Chuck On Sep 29, 2009, at 12:30 AM, Nick Huanca wrote: Hi Jon, We've had extensive experience with the VL900 product line, even through its rough release to market. After Alvarion fixed their hardware and software bugs I could recommend this product hands down based on our experience. Beware of used equipment that may not operate *at all* in minimal noise. There was a revision to the hardware on the AUs to remedy this. Thanks, --Nick Huanca On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: I have no experience with the Waverider equipment, but Alvarion's pretty darn good (and we do have experience with that). Chuck On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:24 PM, my_em...@webjogger.net wrote: Hi, We're planning to upgrade a lot of our 900MHz equipment which is currently predominantly Alvarion Breeze Access 900. The main goal is to provide the customer with better speeds The 2 options I'm considering are Alvarion VL900 and Waverider CCU8000 I was wondering if anyone has experience with using both of these radios, and if so, all considered which one do you think is generally better? Thanks, -- Jon Roux Webjogger Internet Services http://www.webjogger.net 845.757.4000 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Nick Huanca WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Actually for most of that Jerry helped me. Yep, Jerry corrected that comment already. Chuck I certainly agree that RM is very powerful but it's a POS from a usability standpoint. If it were cleaned up and made easier to use I'd have dropped the better part of $500 on it. Software that'll do what it does that's as easy to figure out as TopoUSA or any linksys router would be a no brainer here. Brian helps me with Census tract stuff mostly. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Marlon used Brian Webster. Chuck On Sep 23, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Scott Reed wrote: Not to be repetitive, but you are describing RadioMobile John the RM Yahoo group and see if you can't get it to do just what you are looking for. Seems to me Marlon Schaffer found someone to help him learn it a few months ago. I don't remember who. I can help some if you want to ask questions off-list. Robert West wrote: I was holding this chunk of Organite and praying for such a thing and now here it is. Spooky. Get ready for the list, Shaddi. For one, this browser based software should not depend on the internet, yes? The term browser speaks internet to me. If I'm out in the field trying to figure out a link I obviously don't have internet there. Not that I see myself out in the middle of a corn field with my laptop trying to figure it out but hey, who knows. The basics of course is terrain and elevation but I'd like to see how a link over water is taken into account rolled into the thing. I also have to guess at trees. If I'm only able to get 70 feet or so up and the trees around here are also around 70 feet, it might say yes but the trees would say no. Could it possibly have a variable where you could set an average height for stands of trees? Where I am at, Southern Ohio, all the patches of trees are pretty much a single average height. If the software could distinguish a large green patch as trees and you tell the software that the average height is whatever, it could possibly add that height to the land elevation. Would be good to have a database of various antennas and radios to pull from as well. Hey! IDEA! A new game, Wireless Internet Tycoon!!! What do ya think? I've kinda ran off the rails here, sorry. You want a wish list? Grab some paper, pal. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Shaddi Hasan Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Howdy WISPA! Just joined today but wanted to chime in -- some students here at UNC Chapel Hill are working on a browser-based link planning tool as a semester project. It will be released as open-source at the end of the semester, so we'd like it to be useful not only for our projects but for the community at large. While primarily geared towards community wireless projects, it'd be great if it could be useful for the professional WISP community. So, if you have any feedback on what features you'd like to see in such a tool, lessons you all have learned that should be incorporated into its design, or the concept generally, please contact me. To the OP, check back in December and we might have something to offer you! Shaddi On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan the build? I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't get that thing to work even with the step by step instructions. I've been finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in Google Earth. Sucks. Anyone using a good software app that will plot the links and give me the easy thumbs up or thumbs down? Sorry to be a pain with all these questions. It's been too hectic and I just don't have the time to sit for 2 days evaluating crap software. I'd rather be told what's good by real users. Thanks. Organite. It's not just for breakfast anymore. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Waverider Vs Alvarion VL 900
I have no experience with the Waverider equipment, but Alvarion's pretty darn good (and we do have experience with that). Chuck On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:24 PM, my_em...@webjogger.net wrote: Hi, We're planning to upgrade a lot of our 900MHz equipment which is currently predominantly Alvarion Breeze Access 900. The main goal is to provide the customer with better speeds The 2 options I'm considering are Alvarion VL900 and Waverider CCU8000 I was wondering if anyone has experience with using both of these radios, and if so, all considered which one do you think is generally better? Thanks, -- Jon Roux Webjogger Internet Services http://www.webjogger.net 845.757.4000 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] leaky coax
Rather unlikely since the iPhone operates at 850, 900, 1800, 1900, and 2100 MHz for the cell network (it also supports bluetooth and 802.11 b/ g of course). Chuck On Sep 26, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Is this for the purpose of interfering with the iPhones? On 9/26/09, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: We used LC quite a bit about 10 years ago in apartments and hotels. Worked pretty well. Cisco BR342 -- YDI amp -- 200' No reason you could not use a splitter and put 2.4 and 5.8 on the same run. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 7:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] leaky coax I've got an area of a college football stadium (100K+ people) that has a student section with an expected 50% iPhone usage rate, so I'm considering a leaky coax solution. Does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with such a solution? Also, say I want the leaky coax to work on both 2.4 and 5.8, is there a special multiplexer thing I gotta put it? (I'm new at this and am still researching it) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Micropops
/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Cheney josh.che...@gmail.com http://www.joshcheney.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Micropops
Not really. That's the point of mentioning the train trip up the Mississippi and over to Chicago. That trip is over 1000 miles and there are very long stretches with not much there. Chuck On Sep 27, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Well you're comparing cities to a few miles outside cities. I'd be very disappointed if it didn't work downtown or something. On 9/27/09, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: I don't use tethering since I haven't otherwise felt the need to jailbreak my phone. On the other hand, I've been extremely pleased with ATT's network for Internet access. I took a train from New Orleans (still doing reconstruction trips to the Katrina damaged areas) to Minneapolis (via Chicago), and then on to Syracuse, NY last year and never had a problem using my dongle to get access on my laptop (I wasn't using my iPhone for email back then, though I do now). The coverage was surprisingly solid. Here in upstate NY I have at least Edge coverage wherever I need it. I know that's not true in the most rural areas in our territory, but all the typical cities, towns, and villages have usable access. Chuck On Sep 27, 2009, at 12:12 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe it's just ATT that has problems everywhere... On 9/26/09, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: I've never had a problem tethering with my Sprint phone. It has worked over EVDO and whatever their 2.5G was. Unfortunately, I got a new phone that Sprint hasn't made it easy to unlock the tethering (last one was just install USB drivers). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Micropops I have an ATT aircard built into my laptop (Thinkpad t500; Ericsson f3507g) and if it worked half of the places I try I'd be happy. Many places just don't seem offer a strong enough signal and the rest associate but never get pppoe operating. There have been a few places where their DNS was down, but I got online and used my own DNS. Don't count on aircards for remote connectivity (or your cell phone for data, tethered or not). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I usually just sit down and cry for a few minutes, somehow find a way to blame the customer, cry again for a few minutes, etc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Micropops Call the office. Think it out. What else are you going to do? Turn into a brain dead company like Big Cable Co and scramble when things don't work? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Josh Cheney josh.che...@gmail.com wrote: Of course, if the reason you are at a particular site is because their connection is down, having the docs online doesn't help all that much... Robert West wrote: I agree. I'd like to eventually have all the docs of every install online so they can be pulled up from wherever I'm at. Not so for me at the moment. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Micropops Most people will also say to have the enclosure outdoors (even if it's another $200 to do so) so you have access to it when the resident is gone. Get paperwork that allows you to do so. Installs should have a picture of the SU/SM/CPE, where it penetrates the wall and the POE. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:32 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: inline Mark Nash wrote: I'd like to hear opinions on what Micropops do to your business. 1. How many customers do you look for before you install even the least expensive MPoP? 1 I can not think of a single person (on my net) that does not have a laptop. They need a AP so you mighht as well leverage it (Its mine, I manage
Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
Why not contract with Brian Webster for a couple of hours. He's a true expert with the software and it won't take much for him to help you through the rough patches...and probably show you tricks you'd never figure out on your own. His contact info is: Brian Webster (607) 286-3465 work (607) 435-3988 cell bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Chuck On Sep 23, 2009, at 6:18 PM, Robert West wrote: You know, I haven't a clue! It looks simple, heck yes! Everyone says it's easy but I'll be darned if I can't get anything out of it. Now you also have to understand, when I try to work with it I have 3 kids, a cat and the wife all wanting something. Time was not well spent when I've tried it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Robert West wrote: What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan the build? I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't get that thing to work even with the step by step instructions. I've been finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in Google Earth. Where are you getting hung up? Radio Mobile is probably the best free tool you're gonna get, and once set up, works pretty well. (The trickiest part probably is getting the terrain data you need, but you only have to do that once.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.112/2390 - Release Date: 09/23/09 05:52:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
Ah, my apologies! I guess I should have checked that then blush. Chuck On Sep 24, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Actually, that was me. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Marlon used Brian Webster. Chuck On Sep 23, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Scott Reed wrote: Not to be repetitive, but you are describing RadioMobile John the RM Yahoo group and see if you can't get it to do just what you are looking for. Seems to me Marlon Schaffer found someone to help him learn it a few months ago. I don't remember who. I can help some if you want to ask questions off-list. Robert West wrote: I was holding this chunk of Organite and praying for such a thing and now here it is. Spooky. Get ready for the list, Shaddi. For one, this browser based software should not depend on the internet, yes? The term browser speaks internet to me. If I'm out in the field trying to figure out a link I obviously don't have internet there. Not that I see myself out in the middle of a corn field with my laptop trying to figure it out but hey, who knows. The basics of course is terrain and elevation but I'd like to see how a link over water is taken into account rolled into the thing. I also have to guess at trees. If I'm only able to get 70 feet or so up and the trees around here are also around 70 feet, it might say yes but the trees would say no. Could it possibly have a variable where you could set an average height for stands of trees? Where I am at, Southern Ohio, all the patches of trees are pretty much a single average height. If the software could distinguish a large green patch as trees and you tell the software that the average height is whatever, it could possibly add that height to the land elevation. Would be good to have a database of various antennas and radios to pull from as well. Hey! IDEA! A new game, Wireless Internet Tycoon!!! What do ya think? I've kinda ran off the rails here, sorry. You want a wish list? Grab some paper, pal. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Shaddi Hasan Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Howdy WISPA! Just joined today but wanted to chime in -- some students here at UNC Chapel Hill are working on a browser-based link planning tool as a semester project. It will be released as open-source at the end of the semester, so we'd like it to be useful not only for our projects but for the community at large. While primarily geared towards community wireless projects, it'd be great if it could be useful for the professional WISP community. So, if you have any feedback on what features you'd like to see in such a tool, lessons you all have learned that should be incorporated into its design, or the concept generally, please contact me. To the OP, check back in December and we might have something to offer you! Shaddi On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan the build? I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't get that thing to work even with the step by step instructions. I've been finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in Google Earth. Sucks. Anyone using a good software app that will plot the links and give me the easy thumbs up or thumbs down? Sorry to be a pain with all these questions. It's been too hectic and I just don't have the time to sit for 2 days evaluating crap software. I'd rather be told what's good by real users. Thanks. Organite. It's not just for breakfast anymore. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for
If you're rate limiting in a neutral way, why would it bring your network to its knees? Doesn't matter who the packets are coming from or going to if you rate limit the total number of packets a user can generate/receive, right? Chuck On Sep 21, 2009, at 12:33 PM, David E. Smith wrote: http://openinternet.gov/read-speech.html In addition to the four classic Network neutrality principles, the FCC plans to pursue two more. Quotes from the speech: * The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet content or applications. * The sixth principle is a transparency principle -- stating that providers of broadband Internet access must be transparent about their network management practices. I love the sixth one, but number five gives me the willies. Nope, doesn't matter that BitTorrent users bring your network to its knees, you're not allowed to do anything about it. Please tell me I'm missing something. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
It depends on what you're buying from them, but the basic answer is no they do not have to sell at their cost. If you're buying transit, you strike your own deal with the bandwidth supplier. In that sense you're just paying cost on the bandwidth. But, they have to determine the transit terms for the application. That will include a profit number for them. But, they have to live with the proposal they make. They can also sell bandwidth, at a predesigned schedule. They make a profit there too, but they have to live with their proposed schedule. That or I missed something big in the NOFA. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Sep 19, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Okay, so for the grant they MUST provide the bandwidth for the same price they are paying for it??? But are they then able to throw a bunch of BS fees on top of it? If they have to provide at the same price, then it's not bad but I suspect it will be more cumbersome. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. If it's a middle mile application, they would be in violation of their funding contract if they bandwidth wasn't available to you for the same price that they're buying it for -- IMO, you would win either way 1. You get access to cheap bandwidth for the same price as them 2. They deny you access, you report them to the government, they get audited, shut down, thrown in jail, you have one less competitor, and you get to buy their system for pennies on the dollar =) -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I absolutely agree. The open access stuff really only has meaning for us on fiber where total capacity is functionally unlimited in a new build out. Chuck On Sep 19, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The issue is that access to bandwidth can only be sold if it is still available and not already sold to someon else. Open Access is very relevent for fiber networks, but for wireless middle mile grants, it will be very easy to simply say the capacity has been sold already. Example: Grant winner builds out 300mbps licensed link. Grant winner agrees to open access. Grant winner sells 300mbps of capacity to Wholesale partner. Grant winner no longer has to sell bandwidth to anyone else, its already all been sold. Wholesale partner reserves it all, and sells it to subs as ordered over time. The grant winner itself is subject to the sharing rules, but the wholesale partner that capacity was sold to, will not necessarilly be subject to sharing. I see so many possibilities for games, to control who does and doesn't get access to the bandwidth. In our unsubmitted application, we legitimately wanted multiple wholesale partners, and pre-defined who we'd sell it to, and pre-allocated capacity for that. I'm not so sure other grant applicants equally embrace the wholesale open access principles. In my mind, I think history should be the ruling factor. If someone preveiously whoesaled, they are likely to continue wanting to wholesale. If they didn;t before, they probably wont want to afterwords, and will likely play games. Just my opinion. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu IMCEAEX-_O=CTI_OU=EXCHANGE+20ADMINISTRATIVE+20GROUP +20+28fydibohf23spdlt+29_cn=recipients_cn=char...@converge-tech.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. If it's a middle mile application, they would be in violation of their funding contract if they bandwidth wasn't available to you for the same price that they're buying it for -- IMO, you would win either way 1. You get access to cheap bandwidth for the same price as them 2. They deny you access, you report them to the government, they get audited, shut down, thrown in jail, you have one less competitor, and you get to buy their system for pennies on the dollar =) -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're suggesting as I understood the circular. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. The NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer money optimally wisely and benefit the public, and adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, but didn;t have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get approved if its less good? And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA what we think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the public that has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that targeted truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that would directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I plan to protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- existing providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them into the proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they deserve to have their applications protested, in my opinion. As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on applying for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and advising that the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to projects without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe fairly considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and isn't underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the areas. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org To: WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Keep your Internet away from my garlic!
I local organic store (with a small farming operation) just successfully got a cell tower approval moved some 1000' further away for just this reason. Ironically, he uses a cell phone. But, facts notwithstanding, he was able to mobilize a large group of folks from his mailing lists to fight the tower so it was out of sight (and I guess out of mind, even though 1000' further away isn't going to make much difference...). Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 2:21 PM, David E. Smith wrote: Just in case the I'm allergic to wi-fi folks weren't enough comedy... A Nova Scotia garlic farmer has put the brakes on high-speed internet coming to Victoria Harbour, a rural community on the Bay of Fundy, fearing radiation from microwave towers will affect his crops. Lenny Levine, who has been planting and harvesting garlic by hand on his Annapolis Valley land since the 1970s, is* afraid his organic crop could be irradiated* if EastLink builds a microwave tower for wireless high-speed internet access a few hundred metres from his farm. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/09/16/ns-internet-tower.html David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're suggesting as I understood the circular. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. The NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer money optimally wisely and benefit the public, and adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, but didn;t have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get approved if its less good? And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA what we think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the public that has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that targeted truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that would directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I plan to protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- existing providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them into the proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they deserve to have their applications protested, in my opinion. As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on applying for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and advising that the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to projects without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe fairly considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and isn't underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the areas. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband expansion as capitalistic competition? I should have said - receiving some funds and thus increasing the speed of biz expansion. I see nothing un-capitalistic per se about receiving funds in order to revive the economy. The real question however is, will *only* the big boys get something thus driving the smaller boys out of biz! (maybe that is the case in the original posting and I just did not know it). *If* the stimulus package would be needed in the first place however, is of course a completely different topic
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
To answer your question, we're using the B14, B28, and B100's from Alvarion for this kind of thing. We're extremely happy. I think the pricing is close to your goal, but the truth is, I don't recall what it costs off hand. Chuck On Sep 16, 2009, at 6:57 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Uh, guys, this is interesting. But it doesn't answer the original question! I don't have a need for a 100meg full duplex backhaul solution. 20 megs both ways will do just fine for now. What ideas do y'all have for a 20+ meg backhaul solution. Something less than $3000 if it's at all possible. I know about the MT gear. I''ve already used one. And I REALLY like the Airaya gear it'll replace. I'm just wondering what people are using and liking. I don't want any unproven brand new gear. Or something too cheap like an 802.11a ap and client setup. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 13:22 -0400, ralph wrote: As far as I can tell from the FCC info, only 2 routerboards have any FCC Part 15 Class A or B computing device approval. They are the Crossroads and the RB411- both of which already have on board wireless. You are half correct. The Crossroads does have a built-in radio. The RB411 does not. There IS a RB411R that has a built-in radio (2.4GHz). -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
If there's any chance of your ever wanting more bandwidth, I'd not go to 3.65 for the link. However, our experience with Redline is pretty good too. We don't use them these days but if I weren't happy with Alvarion, that's where I'd go for relatively low cost back haul links. I say relatively because it's neither will be as cheap as a 'tik solution nor as expensive as going DragonWave or Ceregon, which are overkill for your application. Chuck On Sep 16, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Marlon - looked into Redline an80i 3.65? It's like 3k for the low speed key of 14 megs and maybe 4k for something more like 40 megs. You can upgrade from low to high speed key later at no dollar penalty. Keep in mind low speed is 7mhz and high speed is 20mhz. On 9/16/09, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Uh, guys, this is interesting. But it doesn't answer the original question! I don't have a need for a 100meg full duplex backhaul solution. 20 megs both ways will do just fine for now. What ideas do y'all have for a 20+ meg backhaul solution. Something less than $3000 if it's at all possible. I know about the MT gear. I''ve already used one. And I REALLY like the Airaya gear it'll replace. I'm just wondering what people are using and liking. I don't want any unproven brand new gear. Or something too cheap like an 802.11a ap and client setup. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 13:22 -0400, ralph wrote: As far as I can tell from the FCC info, only 2 routerboards have any FCC Part 15 Class A or B computing device approval. They are the Crossroads and the RB411- both of which already have on board wireless. You are half correct. The Crossroads does have a built-in radio. The RB411 does not. There IS a RB411R that has a built-in radio (2.4GHz). -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Realistically, you can't block the application if you can reach less than 50% of the households in an area. Plus they are probably applying for funds to cover an area larger than (or at least not completely coincident with) yours, which would likely make a successful challenge improbable at best. However, BTOP requires that they offer interconnection, and strongly encouages them to offer a real wholesale arrangement. It might be worth your time to approach them about it. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Sep 15, 2009, at 8:49 AM, L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org wrote: On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote: Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county that I service, the whole county. Questions: 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? Is blocking even possible? I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no? 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census blocks in the county. ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and Cable. How can that be labeled as Underserved. If we get one Block rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area? --- there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) (üäö) --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
the overnment wants this program to besuccessful, and nobody wants an aftermath press stating things like grant money puts local businesses out of business. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote: Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county that I service, the whole county. Questions: 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? Is blocking even possible? I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no? 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census blocks in the county. ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and Cable. How can that be labeled as Underserved. If we get one Block rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area? --- there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) (üäö) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
