Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
There was a time, Marlon, when I would have agreed with you. Except that I've been paying attention for a quite a few years... compromise is what got us to this. Not galloping, leaps and bounds, unhindered statism, but the exact compromise you are talking about - it ALWAYS goes in one direction. The only compromise has been how far and how much. It's the ratchet effect. Sometimes not moving, but NEVER going in the right direction. It has found its way into every detail of every thing. So, no, no more compromising. I'm done. It's now REVERSE. Not compromise on not as much more but, NO MORE, and NOW LESS. And if you're (WISPA) not actively acting to accomplish that, then it's actively hindering that action. It's on the wrong side. It's like travelling a road. You're going to go one way... Or the other. There isn't a compromise, if you're not going north, you're going south, if you're not going east, you're going west, and there is no such thing as standing still without being pointed in some direction. You say that you alone can't do anything.That I can't. I agree. But it has to start...somewhere. If Uncle Sam came running, handing me free money I would not take it - and I, personally, have never been personally in as precarious financially as I am now, with no assurance I'll even have a home from one week to the next. It's called principle, Marlon. I have no right to what other people have worked for, or will work for in the next 50 years ( paying interest on our ocean of debt), and I will not take it. In fact, it has to start with EVERY ONE OF US, not just how we vote, but how we act, how we talk to our neighbors, how we make our decisions, and what ideas we promote. I can't say I'm for this and then not live it. It's pure hypocrisy to say you gotta live with the system. No, you don't. You have the freedom to still say no. You have the freedom to NOT take CRP or RUS loans, or look for ways to get USF funding, for instance. But, if you're willing to sell the use of your land for the pittance they give you, then you have no claim to saying you're 'with me', because you're not - you're completely willing to agree with, and take money from a program that robs one set of citizens to give money to another, plain and simple. And look how widespread acceptance is among people who would otherwise claim to be small government conservatives. I'm grateful you're now telling them to end USF and other stuff, but you know it's not going away until the Congress makes it go away. But Congress (and whoever is president) isn't going to make it go away until a very large majority of us, the people, demand it. And no such demands are going to happen until we (you, me, and every single other person) have made the case for free markets, economic freedom, freedom to be in business, freedom of innovation, and freedom from political burdens with no redeeming value whatsoever. But we're not there. You're as helpful to the cause as the current president, because you're (and maybe not you, personally, Marlon, this has NEVER been about you in a personal way... My conversations referenced before... were not with you. I've have conversations you don't know about) still willing to take money in opposition to what you claim to think. Until we're not, Marlon, then we're not really believing what we're saying ,and of course, if we're not, we're never going to convince the country it has to change, or face a crisis beyond those of recorded history. Is WISPA making the case, not to just DC, but to the members as well, industry wide, that free markets solve problems? Does the organization actively promote unfettered competition, by its members? Does it make the case that no subsidies is, in fact, the only truly viable business and national strategy? If not, then WISPA is still in diametric opposition to me. Does WISPA leadership routinely offer workshops on how individual WISP's can find opportunity to be those free market powerhouses? And why and how you should stand on your own and why you should not get tangled up in trying to get a few dollars in exchange for a lack of autonomy? Going back to CRP, the people who signed up didn't see it in the terms I've posted. Because we're conditioned to not think about it. Because so many of us just see the dollars and don't apply forgotten principles that matter. Look how many millions of people went and borrowed money on a loan guaranteed by our federal government - many of which I'm sure, still claim to be for freedom, for limited government, and so on. Look how it has corrupted us as a people, that we'll now give up almost anything we believe in for a few dollars or other material or monetary benefit. Nothing will change, until we're ready to live by what we think, and start doing so, and that includes our businesses, our financial lives, and every vote we
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
I knew I could count on you to demonstrate complete ignorance of What Should Be, Because It Once Was. The founders would curse you for having no understanding. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US Constitution / way of Governing is never going to work, and it is doomed for failure When asked why ? The response was .. 'Simple. common people are not interested in participating in the Governing process'. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
[WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
As the anniversary of my full 8th year actively in the wireless internet business is here, I decided to make some comments. My interest in wireless internet, and actual efforts to actually start doing it are now 14 years old. Yes, really, it was that long ago. And I'm feeling much older these days. My first internet venture failed quite spectacularly. I think I made every mistake one could make, and didn't learn every lesson there was to learn, either. But it did help, as I did not repeat a bunch of things that were fatal. The most important one was to not start with vastly larger bills than your revenue. Growth doesn't always come in rapid fashion. And there's a cost to all growth. Know before you make that leap, what the consequences will be. Over the last few years, I've been known to get what some people call political. Perhaps it is, I say it isn't. It's just common sense business principles. It was one of my first lessons - learn how to preserve your future flexibility, because THINGS CHANGE. That, too, was one of my first mistakes. I had no alternatives, really, to travelling down the road I started on, which was a seriously bad mistake. That ability to be flexible, to violate the rules of internet by wire, is what created the WISP business in the first place, and yet, it's one of the things that's been done the most damage to, and faces the largest threats in the future. This post is probably my last, as it concerns things WISPA. I have given up on WISPA completely. Mostly for the reasons above. While WISPA was being formed, I had the self-generated illusion that fellow WISPS's would be all about getting, expanding, and maintaining the freedom to be in business. We're notorious for being rogues, cowboys, unconventional, and extremely individualistic. It would have never occurred to me that one or more founders of WISPA would go to the FCC and tell them that they should create reporting mandates and then encourage regulation of our industry. My shock when I learned that was a kind of rock your world kind of thing. And anger. Serious anger. How dare people undertake to put us under the thumb of the utterly incompetent idiots in Washington DC? If you want to live that way, go live some place like that, don't undertake to force it upon me. That's the essence of the American attitude, history, and the very thing that built this country. Over the years, I've come to realize that unlike me, few of our industry have any such lesson learned. The idea of getting free money or loans or other favors in the form of money from government or government actions has lured them into becoming just another faction of the crony capitalism that has all but destroyed our nation's economy, currency, and threatens to finish the job, rapid-fire. WISPA certainly doesn't seem to have any interest in telling Washington DC to go pound sand, and do what is the morally, economically, and Constitutionally right and proper thing. Leave us the HELL ALONE! Stop pretending that DC is the source of goodness, and stop pretending that they have even an IOTA of the answers for what ails the country and how to supply our needs. They do not. I won't waste your time with explanations of what I want, after all, either you're in agreement, or else your only interest is in creating false portrayals to attack me personally, calling me an anti-government nut or any of 100 other senseless phrases. Some of you I've gotten to know a bit over the years, and I have no idea if any of you are on this list anymore. Maybe someone will post this where everyone can read it if they want. Why we can't advocate for economic and business operation freedom anymore is completely beyond my comprehension. Especially since we're supposed be about business, a business which exists solely because of that amazing concept of economic and personal liberty otherwise known as capitalism - or free enterprise - take your pick. It offends too many, and those who it doesn't are too too timid to stand for what they think in the presence of the socialist bullies. It's my wish and my prayer as well, that all of you have a good life, a prosperous future, health, and happiness. But I hold out little hope, long term. Unless things change, we're all going away, our plans and enterprises massacred by the attitude that all our needs are merely a utilitarian function of government. Still, I hope the best for all - and always have and always will. Mark ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 ++ ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
We had quite a conversation on TVWS, actually. I explained how rules prohibit its use in so many instances that though it's a huge effort, where I live, for instance, there's no more than 2 channels. If that. Also, that HAAT rules seriously block deployment in areas where it would be most useful (mountains, forest). ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: John Scrivner Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 7:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality Glad to hear someone up there in DC is listening. Did you happen to mention anything about our need of access to TVWS? Scriv On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:56 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Monday morning I got a phone call from a 202 number and answered it. The name sounded vaguely familiar, but he finally identified himself as the assistant to my congressman. Ahh, now I know why I recognize the name. Been in politics around here for many years. State and federal. Thursday or Friday, I stumbled across a news story of my US Rep praising the FCC's changes to USF, which, from descriptions, look bad for me and most of us, as it involves subsidizing rural wireless (insert cellular for wireless and you get the gist) I was ticked as you can imagine, because he's literally from a small town where WISP's play a signficant role in broadband availablity. Well, I guess I must have used the right combination of words, because he (the assistant to my US Rep) wanted to know what it was I thought. Well, we had 20 minute conversation, where I explained that we as an industry are often the only viable operators for small niche areas where it simply is impossible to string wires or bury cables or whatever, in a cost effective manner (and he knows precisely what I mean, he drives the same roads and knows the same places I do), and now, someone's going to apply to get USF money to come and build right out over us, with subsidized funding. He didn't disagree with that assessment, btw, and asked what I thought should be done. Abolish, of course. In his view, the term of life for continual subsidy of rural telecom via USF has been abruptly shortened, and, they're at least talking about ending any continuous subsidy for anyone. Of course, they can't end USF, because Congress made it law, but ending it is certainly an option in House, he implied. Further, we've reached the point where much of rural broadband is hampered by beaurocratic obstruction as much as anything else. the need to use public land, or telephone pole access, or power pole access, federal land use, and numerous other expensive and complicated matters. I explained that it has traditionally been that people with great skill for beaurocracy get the money, but rarely seem to have great skill at getting customers happy and resourceful at accomplishing the technical challenges. That subsidy causes business models to be built on it, rather than sustainable competitive operations. That we need the markets open to being able to enter the phone, tv, and internet business with whatever the appropriate technology, without endless hurdles in our way. No idea if it did any good, but at least one person, who is at the top of the issues that matter to us in the house, got some input from the ground level. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
Tom: I understand your position that we should respect authority, but there's also the fact that sometimes, you have to stand up to people who are not supposed to be doing what they're doing, even when in government office. As far as it goes, I have nothing to lose, really. While the business is self sustaining, and makes me a small profit, I have never been in this bad of shape in my life. 10 months ago, the wife was injured at work, 4 months ago, the injury, though treated and investigated, reached the point she could no longer work. The workmen's comp insurer decided to try to duck any responsibility, and now lawyers are dragging them kicking and fighting all the way, but it's going to take months to get this done, with endless hearings and legal dodging and gamesmanship. Even when or if we win (and we should) it means many more months of surgery, recovery, therapy. At this point, we're down to our last few bucks, I don't make enough to pay even the rent+utilities+cell phones. So, if they want to try to squeeze me for money... bring it on, I got nuttin, honey. They just can't hurt me anymore than we've been hurt, so, I got nothing to lose. And further, I'm fighting mad. Just one more authority showing up with a big stick saying work for me for nothing, you slave! ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 2:54 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality At the end of the day it boils down to whether its justified for a WISP to risk going to court. Admittedly, any government industry can cause a private company a lot of pain, if they want to, if you challenge them. That is not something someone should consider doing, lightly. With that said sometimes one must take a stand to defend their rights and what they believe in. Even if not cost effective for their own good, if its for the good of their industry. Just like BrandX, eventually someone had to step up to take it to trial, win or loose. If a WISP was put in a position that they had to go to court, I bet that other third party groups would be willing to assist fund the battle behind the scenes. I'm not talking just other WISPs. I'm talking about other big money companies that couldn't risk a netneutrality loss on the court record, documenting presidence. My opinion is that it would not be wise for the federal enforcement agencies to target small organizations to challenge their rulemaking in court. One, It would be a media/publicity nightmare. Such as FCC puts small business out of business. Two, It would be embaressing, and make FCC look weak. Bully FCC picks on the little guy. Three, Small WISPs would gain more sympathee from Juries than Big money Telcos. In my opinion the FCC rule making is not legal. Atleast not for those that aren't telecom act defined regulated carriers. And in my opinion, a WISP could simply refuse to comply, and demand that the FCC obtain a court order to back their claim of authority. If the FCC came knocking on my door to enforce an alledged NetNeutrality issue, I would fight it. I think the disclosure portion is the one good part of the FCC rulemaking. For that reason, I plan to comply with the disclosure portion, just because it makes good sense to do it anyway. Not to mention it would be just plain stupid not to comply to such an easy request, which would be almost like requesting a challenge, not to cooperate on such an easy request. Plus, not disclosing info could open up a WISP to legal issues covered by laws not related to NetNeutrality, such as truth in advertising. Disclosure should be vague, so not to self inciminate more than necessary. But as far as complying to the other rules of NetNeutrality, I am going to operate my network the way I want to, and I'm not going to change that, unless I'm forced to. Please note, in general I respect the FCC's authority, and my viewpoint stated herein is strictly relating to NetNeutrality. Hopefully, I as well as other WISPs will operate their networks fairly, so this issue never has to come up. So many issues could be defended by reasonable network mangement, to defend oneself without the need for court. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tony Iacopi t...@razzolink.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality Hi there, Unfortunately I would love to agree with Matt and the fact that I paid for the network so I should be able to do what I want with it, however, the way it is currently written, if you provide internet service (which I believe we all
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
I don't do anything. I will do tech support ONLY for the paying person, and won't respond to complaints of slow or anything else. Am I losing money? Mulitple perspectives; 1. I've got a customer that pays a bill. 2. if I prohibit it, there's probably not much chance they'll all sign up. 3. I have no data use tracking anymore, so I don't know who's doing what. 4. I know if the one paying the bill leaves, that the other(s) will immediately call and re-up in another name. Potentially lost revenue isn't lost... It's just what you don't have. If we fret ourselves into a stroke over potentially lost, life would be hell. As it is, I have bigger fish to fry and more pressing issues at hand. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Matt lm7...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Net Neutrality
Monday morning I got a phone call from a 202 number and answered it. The name sounded vaguely familiar, but he finally identified himself as the assistant to my congressman. Ahh, now I know why I recognize the name. Been in politics around here for many years. State and federal. Thursday or Friday, I stumbled across a news story of my US Rep praising the FCC's changes to USF, which, from descriptions, look bad for me and most of us, as it involves subsidizing rural wireless (insert cellular for wireless and you get the gist) I was ticked as you can imagine, because he's literally from a small town where WISP's play a signficant role in broadband availablity. Well, I guess I must have used the right combination of words, because he (the assistant to my US Rep) wanted to know what it was I thought. Well, we had 20 minute conversation, where I explained that we as an industry are often the only viable operators for small niche areas where it simply is impossible to string wires or bury cables or whatever, in a cost effective manner (and he knows precisely what I mean, he drives the same roads and knows the same places I do), and now, someone's going to apply to get USF money to come and build right out over us, with subsidized funding. He didn't disagree with that assessment, btw, and asked what I thought should be done. Abolish, of course. In his view, the term of life for continual subsidy of rural telecom via USF has been abruptly shortened, and, they're at least talking about ending any continuous subsidy for anyone. Of course, they can't end USF, because Congress made it law, but ending it is certainly an option in House, he implied. Further, we've reached the point where much of rural broadband is hampered by beaurocratic obstruction as much as anything else. the need to use public land, or telephone pole access, or power pole access, federal land use, and numerous other expensive and complicated matters. I explained that it has traditionally been that people with great skill for beaurocracy get the money, but rarely seem to have great skill at getting customers happy and resourceful at accomplishing the technical challenges. That subsidy causes business models to be built on it, rather than sustainable competitive operations. That we need the markets open to being able to enter the phone, tv, and internet business with whatever the appropriate technology, without endless hurdles in our way. No idea if it did any good, but at least one person, who is at the top of the issues that matter to us in the house, got some input from the ground level. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
My customer agreement on acceptable use says interfering with proper operation of the network and abuse of bandwidth and breaking the laws of the land as matters that get my attention. It's simple and has yet to be a matter of any contention with any customer. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Sam Tetherow tethe...@shwisp.net Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet It's not fretting myself over potentially lost revenue. It is a customer breaking the acceptable use policy. If you don't have a problem with customers sharing internet by all means don't list that as unacceptable use, your network, your rules. For me I see it as leaving money on the table. It is listed as not allowed in my acceptable use policy and if I find it occurring I remind the customer that sharing internet with neighbors is not allowed and offer to help them secure the network. I spin it as you don't want them 'stealing' your internet, and you don't want them dragging down your speed. If they say they know about it and condone it I remind them again that it is against policy and if it continues I will have to disconnect them. If someone can get something for free, pay half price or pay full price, 11 times out of 10 they will go with free. Will I gain customer #2? Sometimes. Will I lose customer #1? Sometimes, but if don't do anything I will never gain customer #2 and it negatively impacts my network as I now have more resources used and I gain no additional revenue. It also sets the precedent that the acceptable use policy does not need to be adhered to. On 11/1/11 12:38 PM, MDK wrote: I don't do anything. I will do tech support ONLY for the paying person, and won't respond to complaints of slow or anything else. Am I losing money? Mulitple perspectives; 1. I've got a customer that pays a bill. 2. if I prohibit it, there's probably not much chance they'll all sign up. 3. I have no data use tracking anymore, so I don't know who's doing what. 4. I know if the one paying the bill leaves, that the other(s) will immediately call and re-up in another name. Potentially lost revenue isn't lost... It's just what you don't have. If we fret ourselves into a stroke over potentially lost, life would be hell. As it is, I have bigger fish to fry and more pressing issues at hand. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mattlm7...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 9:56 AM To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
If I ever post anything in regards to it will be: Hey, FCC, I claim my Constitution right to be unencumbered by laws which neither you nor Congress have any authority to write, go stick your head in the sand! Sincerely: John Q Public. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 3:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality If a legislator or someone from the FCC reads that I'm going to be pretty irritated. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Yes, we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason at any time. We will insure our network runs as fast as possible for interactive web applications. If you feel that we are blocking something you need, then you can go back to dialup. Ahhahaha --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality I am working with two law firms which I hope to announce today, that will be marketing Open Internet (Net Neutrality) Disclosure Compliance Statements templates or assistance at a relatively low cost. They are doing this for WISPA members. All ISP's must be in compliance and have statements on their websites by November 20th. There is a bit of homework that will need to be done by each WISP about their network, management practices, throughputs, etc. that may not be accomplished if you wait until the last minute. Again, my hope is to get this out today or Monday morning, maybe both! Have any ISP's posted this on there website already? Curious what it looks like? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Weekend Politics that Make Sense
The mythical starving Congresscritter has never been located. If one had ever been found, I'd be prepared to agree with you. But, since most of them are far wealthier than you and I have any chance to be, then I'd say this is invalid. The fact of the matter, is that issue at hand is who holds the power. Congress and the federal government have vastly too much power. The idea that they can demand you and I to obtain a permit or implement some network notion is absurdly insane.It is sheer lunacy beyond all measure of sense, intelligence, or reason. The Constitution never gave them those powers. But, with those powers being exercised, EVERYONE HAS AN INTEREST IN CORRUPTING CONGRESS TO HELP THEM. If Congress can't make you buy insurance, can't make you build a house with 8 million added on expenses that fund special interests ( low flow toilets, cars with air bags, all sorts of other sheer lunacy), then they have no reason to try to corrupt Congress either. The matter is, that Congress has vastly too much money, too much power, and thus, IS INHERENTLY CORRUPT.The only cure is to restore the Constitution and limit Congress to those few, specific items it shoulid be doing, with all the oversight and checks and balances that were built in. Do that, and our debt problems vanish overnight, our economic problems vanish with it, and our social problems start mending - FAST.EVERY crisis facing America is directly caused by exceeding the boundaries that are plainly written into our Constitution. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Tom DeReggi Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 9:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Weekend Politics that Make Sense To explain my mentality on that... I believe most congressman are people with good intentions who want to do good for their state, and effect posititve change. Intentions are always good. If they weren't they never would have got into politics in the first place. Many have high ethical morals, to fight for the cause, and never consider selling out their beliefs. Most people when they have a decent amount of money that affords them a fine basic life without to much compromise, its usually enough, for them to stay strong to their morals. The issue comes when a congressman has to choose between his family and his constituents. Family will always be more important WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire
The thing is, he has no constitutional authority for ANY of this. Instead, we have the three blind mice trying to make the country work. WE know what we're doing and how to get it done. They need to respect that they don't know squat and need to get the heck out of the way. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Mark Nash Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire As much as I can feel for you Sam, put yourself in government-man-decision-maker shoes. Put your money where you think it will be successful, and small players can't provide that assurance. It's just too much of a gamble. That's how I would feel I would think. This is a high-tech service better left up to high-tech companies. (from their perspective). Never mind that there is success happening in small doses everywhere. It's a question of confidence and CYA'ing on the part of the decision-makers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire
Mark, you seem to think that what I'm advocating is a 'dream' or some kind of old fashioned fantasy. To correct your mistake here, I must point out that the system you seem to want to continue has brought this nation to the brink of bankrtuptcy, destroyed our industrial and scientific base, our technology base has eroded, our information age has enabled our competitors now, and we're rapidly proceeding to a nation full of people who feed each other at mcdonald's, mow each other's lawns, provide internet, and lend each other money - or, in terms of reality, a fantasy. The history of our current telecom industry points to only one thing... Congress is wholesale inept at regulating business, services or industry. We have 5 bazillion laws, all being targeted for efforts to gain advantage for this or that segment, or for this, or against that industry. While we have played in the tide pools, away from the ocean sized breakers of Congressional and Federal controls, it has abundantly clear that what is going on is not sustainable, not good, not even faintly viable. I am not advocating a fantasy... I am advocating a restoration of the PROPER governance our constitution provided and served us so incredibly well while we stuck to it. And, has done such immense damage when we ignored it. I am confused about why you think that WISPA and all other ISP organizations should not propose a clear philosophical message that FREE MARKETS WORK. Duhh, we know they do, we compete as best we can, hobbled by the regulatory structure that grants others certain advantages, etc. There's NOTHING wrong with the idea that Congress should set about undoing the sins of the last generations. Furthermore, as someone said, WISPA itself should, just because it is an advocacy organization, have a clear and unambiguous philosophy on what the organization is going to advocate for, not just WHO it advocates for - and I recall the heated discussions on that topic. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire
Ok, lets get this in perspective. I am one, uno, sole, lone person. While I believe I am right, I am NOT interested in saying I have a right to impose my views on all this stuff on all the other members of WISPA. Two years ago, I asked, prodded, and then nagged, to see if WISPA would voluntarily attempt to get some kind of consensus or perhaps at least write a standard of principles when it comes to the business philosophy. I was booed down. Like it or not, the semi-political aspects of business, being forced on us by an intrusive government, have to be dealt with. Do you as members believe you have a RIGHT to be in business? Without needing a license from some authority? Do you actually believe in free and unencumbered enterprise? Or does consensus fall elsewhere philosophically? What are the guiding principles that drive WISPA's policy stands? Is it just advantage for ourselves, however or wherever it can be found, including trying to get public money with strings that further tie our industry, or do you shoot for freedom first? If it's not the latter, then me joining will not change the philosophy of WISPA and it's advocacy, and I see it's efforts as ultimately being negative, not positive for my life and future - translated as no money from me. Previous conversations on this list lead to a realization that some people are afraid to advocate a philosophy that runs counter to whatever ideology the regulators hold - as if being yes men will curry favor and therefore crumbs will fall in greater quantity from the master's table in DC. But if you had a clear philosophy up front, I think you could attract far more allies, the kind that stick with you, and help change the conversation. You keep asking for people to to set up and WORK for what you want, but continue to refuse to say what it is you intend to work for. I again ask for the leadership to demonstrate leadership and make a clear and unambiguous philosophical stand - and if I can agree with it, then I will support with time and dollars and energy. But until I know it's something I can back with a clear conscience, I (and others, as well) remain on the sidelines. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 3:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire I'm sorry I guess I missed you at the Legislative Committee list when I was putting this together sending out drafts and asking for comments and help /sarcasm. WISPA is a representation of those who show up to help formulate consensus and policy, not my personal views. So easy to throw darts at the end result when you wouldn't be part of the process, isn't it? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire
+100 Rick. And it is this fundamental philosophical perspective that I am asking WISPA to answer - what is the official position? If there is none, then are all the positions and statements and arguments just convenient at the moment? Does WISPA advocate for things that will result in higher regulatory hurdles? Where is the We have a fundamental belief that free enterprise, unencumbered by artificial spectrum shortages or regulatory barriers is the only viable solution to America's broadband needs statement? And a few other statements of principles against which every written statement and every proposal is measured? Thus, all committees and all writers and all communication remains consistent in philosophy and message? Is this being political? Soemwhat, but the need to be so has been shoved upon us and if we're not dealing with it, then I see little hope of being a conversation leader, rather than just a I wanna be heard like all the rest. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: RickG Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 6:03 PM To: fai...@snappydsl.net ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire it is Regulation (1996 Telecom Act) that allowed us (ISP's) to be able to go into the business of providing internet access and other communication services With all due respect, it's exactly the mindset that government allows us to be in business that IS the problem. Telecom Act or no, regulation or no, there should be no question that we are allowed to make a living the way we want to regardless. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire
Nice re-write of history, Forbes. Who are you trying to protect? It is NOT Congress which has been the motivating factor behind the FCC's anti-competitive behavior... It has been the administration and the people that this administration have appointed and have hired, combined with a small number of extreme left-wing groups who have been pushing Net Neutrality, etc. It was NEVER Congress that pushed this. Your effort to see spectrum auctioned is not so much a matter of lobbyists having taken over Congress as it is a matter of Congress finding ways to raise money. A later poster reminded us that not only is Congress unfamiliar with what we do and how we do it - along with why we are needed - the FCC is just as ignorant as well. Despite that fact that WISPA has communicated, the FCC people as a whole just DO NOT GRASP the realities of free market service providers. Until the readers were so sore here that nobody would talk to me, and threatened to expel me, I tried to explain how WISPA needed to take a PRINCIPLED STAND at the time WISPA began to be noticed in DC, that we believed in Free Markets and freedom to do business, without being encumbered (killed) by federal regulation. To this day, WISPA has no published principles which say that it, or you, believe in free markets, open competition, and consumer - oriented stewardship of the nation's RF spectrum-rather than auctioning the assets to the largest bidder. Instead, WISPA has a history of alternatively being for and against various actions - mostly based upon whether or not it was financially a win for the larger voices of WISPA. This lack of principled direction has now come and bitten us in the backside, potentially lethally. The central notion we have to fight is that spectrum should be auctioned (revenue to the feds) to the highest bidder. And someone, in their ignorance, has managed to commit an idea commensurate to your local city government suddenly deciding to create a license to sell groceries and has structured it so that it is all tied to one auction, where any deep pockets bidder can remove the ability of all the incumbents to stay in business. Instead of educating Congress, the FCC ,and our allies (if we have any) about how freedom to be in business has been the central mechanism by which a vast swath of America has great internet service, we've quibbled over dollars and rules and tried to slant them for us against others - the very thinking we must now defeat. I have said we all stand on freedom, or fall together, and for this I have been branded as a radical, idiot, moron, right wing extremist, and so on - as such principles are, according to the self proclaimed 'wise men' of the group, outdated and unworkable. Until we need them, of course. Even the tortured and twisted explanation below is still trying to defend the big government crapola, and by now, it better be as clear and obvious to you, as a just hammered thumbnail, that NOTHING ELSE MATTERS IF WE DO NOT HAVE THE FREEDOM TO BE IN BUSINESS. I was at founding of WISPA. I was there within a week or two of the interest list being formed, and I joined and donated money, until previous people of WISPA were found by me to be advocating FCC mandates on us. At which I resigned and will not rejoin until my money is no longer at risk of being used against our basic and fundamental freedoms. YEARS have been sqandered, because WISPA failed to advocate for freedom first, a consistent, principled basis for everything said, advocacy positions, etc. Now, you have to suddenly get religion, because EVERYONE's freedom is at stake, even our competition's,. Rather than advocate for that, WISPA now has a history just as compromised as ATT's and every lobbyist's, because it stood for little more than trying to bend the rules to favor US instead of THEM. Expediently, we've discovered that open markets mean open to competition, as well, something not advocated by WISPA before. I said in 2009 that there were people headed for Congress, a sea change coming, and that WISPA needed to get politically allied with the pro freedom crowd. They were called radicals and idiots on this list instead. If you have even ONCE advocated for big government intervention... For money your way, for regulation to favor you instead of them, for a chance to get your hands on the subsidies, or IN ANY WAY supported the notion of government intervention in the markets YOU are directly to blame for the mess we're facing. YOU failed to stand for the ONE thing that matters, freedom. I sure hope we win this fight. When I started posting about defending your right to be in business several years ago, it was because I had envisioned this happening, it was written on the wall, in big letters. I told you so. Are you going to get serious, or this just going to be just more arguments of convenience? ++
Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire
A plan of action? If I said this is what WISPA should do and laid it out in detail, all you'd do is say who are you? Why should we hacve to do what you say? Frankly, I have no idea why you're having difficulty. You see, when you have proper business principles as your guiding mechanism, what you should do is crystal clear. Nobody needs to write out a plan of action, it becomes self evident - you always advocate FOR the proper and best thing. And, after being consistent, year after year, and when stuff like this comes up, which becomes so blatantly obviously a result of failure to follow true principle, again, nothing is obscure or difficult. Additionally, I said absolutely NOTHING partisan. Not even ideological. It's simple straightforward business principles. Principle Numero Uno is have the freedom to be in business, and there is nothing convoluted or difficult about that. You seem to be interested in mere expediency. That's what's gotten us to this crisis point, the idea of managing the favoritism, the cronyism, etc, to favor you, or at least not hurt you too much. That's what's BEEN going on. Had we (WISPA) been looking for and actively seeking allies who would with us, say with many voices, but one message - hands off, and be a steward of what's entrusted to you, I think the landscape would look different. The word steward is loaded. It means one entrusted to manage things for the benefit OF THE OWNER, that's us.The FCC and Congress are managing for the benefit of the federal treasury and the donations to campaigns - which is the polar opposite of managed for the good of the people. In the previous post, I wrote an analogy, one where the city effectively puts every service and business up for licensure at auction. It takes no imagination at all to see that the city coffers and the winning bidder are the beneficiaries and the people are the losers. Spectrum is a public or national resource held in trust by the federal government. Auctions to the highest bidder do not benefit anyone but the monopoly holder and the treasury, by creating monopolies or very limited competition. Again, we as consumers and businessmen are the losers. Imagine if there were enough spectrum delegated so that if us WISP's wanted to be mobile broadband providers we could, as well as cellular, or even video / audio broadcasters. Instead, such services have been delegated a minute slice of available spectrum, keeping up the price of the auctions - and the number of competitors down. Why? It is in the interest of politicians to separate us from our money. But their REAL job is to defend us keeping it. There are NOW myriad political allies to spread this message, to change the discussion from whom to screw out of lots of money to what is the best policy for the people and keep competition alive? And, that's the message that is NOT being advocated by WISPA, and it should be. You seem to think that the answer is to find the right pol to influence and the right committee members to lobby and the right allies to obstruct X or advance Y, but those are expediency, not principle. They should be TACTICS to a principled purpose, one that will attract others, on the basis of its soundness and validity. And lastly, about the FCC, the last administration's appointees were advocates for free markets and for competition and deregulation. Not particularly effective ones, but at least they were not our enemy. The current administration's people at the FCC are IN NO WAY our friend, for any way, manner, or purpose, and everything they want is bad for us and the country. STop talking political party talking points, and get some reality. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:01 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Legislative Situation Is Dire Errr... and your point is ? Ok, I am a nobody... I have seen / read your emails, not once can I say I have been able to pick out a proposed specific, action or a plan of action from you My friend you and I can agree or dis-agree on concepts all day long... but the point still remains ... I for myself still am not able to ascertain what exactly is it that you have been proposing ? ( I understand the anger at all of the powers to be part...and I beg to differ when you start blaming ..'this administration'. I personally have been watching and following the FCC stuff, on sliding slopes, for the last 12 years..that according to my calculations has been multiple administrations.) You clear your head, and try to articulate your position in a non-partisan manner, which can be understood by the general public, and put forward a reasonably
[WISPA] FCC not listening to us
Take what you read here with a grain of salt, the quality of articles is variable. However, that at some level, the hearings were a sham, is not to be disputed. When partisans, who are motivated to implement political ideology, over stewardship of public assets, are appointed to office... this is what you get. Everyone keeps accusing me of being political and I keep trying to tell you all that THEY are the ones who are bringing politics into your and my business, often partisan or ideologically radical politics, at that. http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/06/conn-carroll-documents-show-fcc-coordinated-net-neutrality-effort-outside I said years ago it was a waste of time to try to generate good will in WAshington DC. The other name for good will is bribery, and when the people change, all we did was start the history of both asking for and playing in a game of who's got the most to offer. From day one, WISPA should have held a strident and inflexible position that ISP's are NOT to be subject to regulation, federal mandates, etc, and made friends of the organizations who would help us in that message and fight. Instead, we've played into their hands and now have no history except one of going along to get along, while a tiny, but influential number of us who are still trying to get their hands on other people's money, have managed to make WISPA's history one of non-opposition to mandates and regulation - while continually shouting that opposition to mandates and regulations and refusal to accept such mandates was partisan politics - radical politics at that. I can't imagine and I'm not even trying to guess what percentage of WISP's believe as a matter of simple and straitforward principle that we should NOT be under the federal government's thumb, providing free labor for the benefit of politicians, as a price of being allowed into business.But I can't imagine that percentage being any less than almost all of us. It was and is, and always will be perfectly NON PARTISAN notion that businesses should be free to operate without providing blackmail money or free labor to politicians to serve the public's needs. It isn't even political. It's a rational and perfectly sensible idea for any businessperson to hold. And any American, for that matter. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Living Disaster Fund - Not a One Time Charity Event
If possible, the idea would be in cases where insurance is likely to eventually compensate, it could act as a loan, and the fund is replenished whenever insurance finally cuts a check. Where there is not going to be insurance, perhaps the operator can agree to future payments for partial repayment... This would be the best way to avoid rapid depletion, while at the same time, donors never operate under the assumption that the whole of donations are simply gifts to someone who's suffered disaster. The other half of this, is that often help, especially the expert kind, is often as or more valuable than money... and a list of available volunteers for X purposes with X skills be maintained, as well. People sign up for periods of time when available and periods when not. Just to spread the risk around a bit. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Rick Harnish Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 10:04 AM To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' ; us...@wug.cc ; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] Living Disaster Fund - Not a One Time Charity Event I would like to further clarify a few things. Obviously, I am moving quickly on this immediate need, however, I did send the Board an email this morning recommending a Disaster Committee be established. I also made some initial recommendations on how this fund would be administrated. I invite comments below and we can move this along rather quickly. It is definitely needed and will be beneficial to have in place. This disaster started me thinking that we need to become more proactive (as Marlon has suggested many times in the past) rather than reacting at the moment of need. I am thinking some of the rules of the fund, if established would be: 1.. Disaster Fund donations would be kept in a separate Disaster Fund Account, not to be used for General WISPA operating expenses. 2.. Sponsorships of the Disaster Fund could be available to our Vendor/Manufacturer members 3.. No more than 10% to 25% of the fund could be allocated to any one disaster (Up to the committee to decide) 4.. Interference from another operator would not qualify as a disaster.. 5.. Smaller automatic monthly donation payments would be encouraged and accepted. 6.. Vendors would feel comfortable shipping product immediately if the fund was paying for the equipment. 7.. The receiver of emergency funds would pay back at least 80% (Percentage to be determined by the committee) of the funds appropriated on a payment plan to be determined by the committee 8.. Interest earned on the fund, would return to the fund. 9.. More thoughts Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 Option 2 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Living Disaster Fund - Not a One Time Charity Event
I made a small donation, as well. Come on guys, I know a lot of you are better off than me. We should be able to make an adequate fund in 2 days ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: MDK Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Living Disaster Fund - Not a One Time Charity Event If possible, the idea would be in cases where insurance is likely to eventually compensate, it could act as a loan, and the fund is replenished whenever insurance finally cuts a check. Where there is not going to be insurance, perhaps the operator can agree to future payments for partial repayment... This would be the best way to avoid rapid depletion, while at the same time, donors never operate under the assumption that the whole of donations are simply gifts to someone who's suffered disaster. The other half of this, is that often help, especially the expert kind, is often as or more valuable than money... and a list of available volunteers for X purposes with X skills be maintained, as well. People sign up for periods of time when available and periods when not. Just to spread the risk around a bit. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Rick Harnish Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 10:04 AM To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' ; us...@wug.cc ; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] Living Disaster Fund - Not a One Time Charity Event I would like to further clarify a few things. Obviously, I am moving quickly on this immediate need, however, I did send the Board an email this morning recommending a Disaster Committee be established. I also made some initial recommendations on how this fund would be administrated. I invite comments below and we can move this along rather quickly. It is definitely needed and will be beneficial to have in place. This disaster started me thinking that we need to become more proactive (as Marlon has suggested many times in the past) rather than reacting at the moment of need. I am thinking some of the rules of the fund, if established would be: 1.. Disaster Fund donations would be kept in a separate Disaster Fund Account, not to be used for General WISPA operating expenses. 2.. Sponsorships of the Disaster Fund could be available to our Vendor/Manufacturer members 3.. No more than 10% to 25% of the fund could be allocated to any one disaster (Up to the committee to decide) 4.. Interference from another operator would not qualify as a disaster.. 5.. Smaller automatic monthly donation payments would be encouraged and accepted. 6.. Vendors would feel comfortable shipping product immediately if the fund was paying for the equipment. 7.. The receiver of emergency funds would pay back at least 80% (Percentage to be determined by the committee) of the funds appropriated on a payment plan to be determined by the committee 8.. Interest earned on the fund, would return to the fund. 9.. More thoughts Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 Option 2 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WISP Testifying before Congress Wednes - Kill NetNeutrality- What you can do!
If you speak to to Walden, thank him for his efforts. He's my congressman and has been at the very front of this the whole time. Thanks ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Tom DeReggi Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:21 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: legislat...@wispa.org ; fcccommit...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] WISP Testifying before Congress Wednes - Kill NetNeutrality- What you can do! Reforwarding. Sorry for the repeat, I forgot to change the subject field appropriately, last Email send. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] net neutrality... Two articles...
Rick, I didn't take any potshots at anyone. I linked a couple of short blurbs on the net.. and asked... What's WISPA's official stand or statement? Is there one? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Rick Harnish Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 7:49 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] net neutrality... Two articles... Mark, Why don't you join WISPA and be part of the process instead of taking pot shots from the hinterlands. It is time you stepped up to be counted. For the record, I am personally totally against Network Neutrality; at least the versions that have been presented thus far. Forcing unmanaged network content on broadband infrastructure operators will have dire consequences in the operation of the Internet and the businesses that provide it. Rick From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] net neutrality... Two articles... http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/147121-house-leadership-questions-why-industry-isnt-fighting-in-net-regs?tmpl=componentprint=1page= Excerpt: House GOP Whip Kevin McCarthy (Calif.) convened a meeting of top communications companies on Wednesday morning, where he questioned why they are not doing more to help Republicans in the fight against net-neutrality rules. A spokeswoman for McCarthy confirmed the meeting. http://biggovernment.com/nrbrown/2011/03/04/republican-reactive-neutrality/print/ Excerpt: The facts are that Net Neutrality is not about keeping all the bits equal. Net Neutrality is about regulatory creep. It's about controlling the infrastructure so that the message can be controlled. It's about things like Internet Sidewalks [5], and Free Press' founder Robert McChesneys desire to control information, have a government takeover of infrastructure, and control what is available to the people. We know this when he stated, You will never, ever, in any circumstance, win any struggle at any time. That being said, we have a long way to go. At the moment, the battle over network neutrality is not to completely eliminate the telephone and cable companies. We are not at that point yet. But the ultimate goal is to get rid of the media capitalists in the phone and cable companies and to divest them from control. I asked once... about a year ago. What side is WISPA on? I still can't tell. Are they on the no regulation is needed, get lost! bandwagon, or are they on the We welcome the chance to have input on your future plans bandwagon? The two roads diverged a while back. Which is WISPA on? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] net neutrality... Two articles...
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/147121-house-leadership-questions-why-industry-isnt-fighting-in-net-regs?tmpl=componentprint=1page= Excerpt: House GOP Whip Kevin McCarthy (Calif.) convened a meeting of top communications companies on Wednesday morning, where he questioned why they are not doing more to help Republicans in the fight against net-neutrality rules. A spokeswoman for McCarthy confirmed the meeting. http://biggovernment.com/nrbrown/2011/03/04/republican-reactive-neutrality/print/ Excerpt: The facts are that Net Neutrality is not about keeping all the bits equal. Net Neutrality is about regulatory creep. It's about controlling the infrastructure so that the message can be controlled. It's about things like Internet Sidewalks [5], and Free Press' founder Robert McChesneys desire to control information, have a government takeover of infrastructure, and control what is available to the people. We know this when he stated, You will never, ever, in any circumstance, win any struggle at any time. That being said, we have a long way to go. At the moment, the battle over network neutrality is not to completely eliminate the telephone and cable companies. We are not at that point yet. But the ultimate goal is to get rid of the media capitalists in the phone and cable companies and to divest them from control. I asked once... about a year ago. What side is WISPA on? I still can't tell. Are they on the no regulation is needed, get lost! bandwagon, or are they on the We welcome the chance to have input on your future plans bandwagon? The two roads diverged a while back. Which is WISPA on? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Smith: Companies must save private data to combat child porn
Careful Matt, someone might confuse you and me, if you keep up this attitude Just a friendly warning ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:50 PM To: li...@stlbroadband.com ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Smith: Companies must save private data to combat child porn I will be exercising my right to civil disobedience in the event that something like this comes to pass. This would never make it through the court/judiciary system, so I'm fairly certain it won't be a problem. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 1/25/2011 7:22 PM, St. Louis Broadband wrote: Same thing here from CNET: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20029393-281.html#ixzz1C6HMbtXG Except they are saying it has to be saved for two years! All browsing data and email. Nice if you're a big ILEC and have endless funds . The more I look at the state of the broadband market today, I wonder if WISPs will exist in the next few years. Victoria Proffer - President/CEO www.ShowMeBroadband.com www.StLouisBroadband.com www.FarmingtonForum.com 314-974-5600 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeromie Reeves Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Smith: Companies must save private data to combat child porn Why do they not just make everyone apply for v6 space. At least that way was designed for tacking IP space to people. On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: The following information is offered for your personal use only. It contains no added starch, sugar or editorial content. It was not processed on any machinery that also processes eggs or nuts. * House Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith says new laws are needed that would force companies to save private data in order to help law enforcement combat child pornography. Smith said at a hearing on Tuesday that Internet access providers should be forced to save personal details linked to users' IP addresses as a way to help combat child pornography. In the last Congress, he introduced a bill requiring they do so for two years... LINK: http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/139945-smith-companies-must-save-more-data-to-combat-child-porn *** -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author (2003) - Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks Serving the WISP, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/Emoticon1.gif WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Matt, I commend your thoughts, and how you chose to write them. I always admire people who speak clearly, but from the heart. I would like to add something, or perhaps just explain why I think this industry will never become the domain of a few large players. Our industry requires a dedication to individual service. Many in the beginning wanted a box to plant on the desk, so that NO interaction with the customer was needed. Instead, we serve each customer individually. Our deployments require that we learn and plot our coverage and service in place, on the ground, interacting with local people. There is no large company that can do that.We CARE about our own business, because it IS our own business, and thus, we CARE about our customers, something you cannot ever pay someone to do. The employee who can be paid to care, is indeed...rare. Thus, we have entered an industry with a model based upon the highest ideal of business - that of true service. The flakes will fail, the greedy will fail, only those with a true concern for doing what needs to be done, in return for a modest paycheck will be successful. Some can instill or find that kind of employee to hire, but no HR department will accomplish it. I don't call us heroes... Certainly I am not anyone's hero. I'm a villain, when the power fails at 8 pm on a school night, and everyone's connection dies. But I do my best, and I really, DO care that someone needs and I have the means of meeting it, and so I get up and go out, missing my dinner, to get things back up and going. Any of you on this list who won't do that, you're the exception, not the rule. I can with confidence that you have a passion to do things for other people... And found a way to earn that paycheck... and meet the need. I believe very few of you are in this, solely for the money. And I disagree about our image... It should be a nameless, faceless guy, working out of his truck, doing the job for his neighbor, on a handshake. That's who we are, more than anything else. It's who we should sell ourselves as, and in doing so, gain our customer's loyalty, as we're loyal to them. Our business operations, and our treatment of customers should reflect that, as well. I don't have the answer for the problems in DC. I don't have the answer for how to get Congress and agencies to allow us to do what we know how to do, and have the answers for. I just think we should be on the offensive, not the defensive, and seek to change the nature of the game. BTW, I read your site from time to time, it's quite good. Keep it up. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:16 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules Scottie (and all other non-WISPA members on this list) I would like to repost something that I put on the WISPA Members list and on my blog at Wirelesscowboys.com - the WISP Manifesto. I am advocating that we should change our strategies to put together our own numbers, fight government programs that harm our businesses with taxpayer money and show the world that we are heroes to our communities. I would really enjoy commentary from anyone on the list. ML (This email started out as a response to Brian Webster's email and went WAY off on a tangent, so I'm changing the subject - sorry!) Brian, I'm going to disagree with you on a couple of points here. I think that you are mostly right, but you are accepting the framing of the issues as the telcos and politicians want them to be framed. That there is no way that we can win a toe-to-toe slugging match for spectrum, but this is not about a full on, frontal attack.This is guerilla warfare, and the game is played by a completely different set of rules. Think of it from the wisp operator's point of view.. 1) We've been given essentially no spectrum (the junk bands that we use were around long before WISPs were), 2)We get no government subsidies, despite the existence of stimulus and rural development programs for broadband deployment, which actually.. 3)Pours billions of taxpayer dollars into our competition, the same competition that has either delivered low grade broadband or none at all. 4)The USF program allows telcos to impose additional taxes on their services to go into a giant government enabled slush fund that goes right back into their systems. 5)RUS only lends to ILECs and will not work with multiple entities in an area 6)We are asked to turn over highly detailed information about our subscriber bases, tower sites and anchor tenants as part of the broadband mapping programs - information that is a FOIA request away from being public knowledge! In many (most) ways, we have little
[WISPA] Looking for residential WISP in Phoenix area.
Please contact me offlist, by email, only... mark at neofast dot net ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
I believe that's somewhere down the road, not too far distant. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... OK... I just visited the forums and saw StarOS has been hard at work adding N Class support. (Better late than never). I stopped paying attention after around Starv3 v1.3.23 or soThinking EOL was near. I just noticed the opposite on the forums with V3- v1.5.15, and even an ALIX specific version. It appears StarOS's implementation is still playing catch up, but exciting to see that their product is evolving. They definately have the talent on staff to evolve their product to a stable product. Wondering if they are working on adding an embedded Spectrum Scanner software for Ncards yet? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: MDK To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
I'm aware of cable loss issues, but in this case, that's just not an option. LMR-400 has low enough loss at 5 ghz that I don't see any big issue with using it, and the run really isn't all that long. The radio system is an ALIX mini-itx and it has 5 radios, plus a 2 radio ALIX board, all in one enclosure. BTW, it's a metal building, with the radios inside another heavy steel box, required to prevent nearby lightning strikes from shutting it down. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: support Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... 10ft in RF cable is a Bad Idea I would put you board in a weather proof box and put it next to your antennas On 1/11/2011 1:16 PM, MDK wrote: I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support (574) 772-7550 ext 103 www.NITLine.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Commish: No need for net neutrality; we have white spaces!
To heck with the critics! What do they know? Did anyone ask the people who know something, rather than just the pointy-headed academics? NN rules are a disaster waiting to happen, and open access is an unsustainable model based on a pretend market. He is absolutely right, however, competition and the ability become competition simply removes the need for ANY meddling. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 1:25 PM To: memb...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] FCC Commish: No need for net neutrality;we have white spaces! Speechless, I am... Critics of US broadband want one of two things: open access rules that would create greater ISP competition of the kind that actually existed in the early 2000s or, barring that, net neutrality rules to keep ISPs from abusing their market power. But according to FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell, we don't need either policy—white space devices make both approaches unnecessary... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/09/fcc-commish-no-need-for-net-neutrality-we-have-white-spaces.ars -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author (2003) - Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks Serving the WISP, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bandwidth provider at Westin
I'm using Spectrum now, and at 65/meg, it hurts, since my use is going up as much as 10% a month. Not only that, I haven't been able to get anyone to talk to me or respond to emails in six months, except for matters of collecting money.They're all over that, but I'm too small, I guess, to warrant anyone's time for any other matters. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Ryan Spott rsp...@irongoat.net Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] bandwidth provider at Westin spectrumnet.us (aka condointernet) http://www.seattleix.net/ - get on this! :) http://www.seattleix.net/participants.htm ryan On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:52 AM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: I'm looking for wholesale bandwidth providers located in Westin.. Anyone have names / etc? Thanks Mark ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Figuring it out
I've had my one test sector up for some time, and then it suddenly developed ethernet issues. I changed both cables and switch, and no joy. I have the replacement rocket, just waiting for the moment I can get back up there and replace it. Since this is more common than it should be, I'm going to go whine to UBNT. I thought mine might a fluke or some kind of odd damage issue, but apparently not. Unless someone knows of a managed switch that uses less than 3W power, I'm stuck with dumb switches... ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 6:47 AM To: spie...@avolve.net ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Figuring it out Try setting the Rocket AP to 10Mbit on the Ethernet and see if you get the same results. I have had several 100Mbit ethernet issues with Rockets, only fix I have had has been to put a modified POE RB/750G near the top of the tower to the Rocket. At 100Mbit they had 7-20% packet loss. If you have a mikrotik you can also test this using the ping command from base to top and set the timeout to 75ms. If you have any packet loss, try setting to 10Mbit and ping again. Regards, Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] bandwidth provider at Westin
I'm looking for wholesale bandwidth providers located in Westin.. Anyone have names / etc? Thanks Mark ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
Nice fable :) ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 9:42 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Merry Christmas, every one
RE: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus worksTo hopes your family can be together, your health be good, your world have peace. May the One who was born on whatever day it was, bless you and yours, and keep you throughout the year so you may again reach other Christmas. Mark ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
If you're trying to align it (analogy) with ILEC's, I agree, the monopoly should never have been created. However, if we just focus on the present, and ignore history - and history is ignored because it's mostly irrelevant - this is the situation and how it will be viewed. Unlike Jeromie's characterization, someone really DOES own it and it's not the taxpayer, it's a private entity.How they got it, no longer matters to the entity, it's how it affects them in the present and future that matters. Unbundling amounts to being required to maintain and innovate at your expense, for the benefit of your competitors. The business concept doesn't make sense, and it never will, ergo, it is not sustainable. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 6:05 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless To align it more closely with the telecom world, consider the following. The city gave you an exclusive license to operate a grocery for 100 years, but you refused to accept credit cards, had manual doors, and rang up all prices by looking them up in a book. Since you were protected from new grocery stores, they forced you to allow a competitive store in your building, which accepted credit cards, had automatic doors, and had an electronic back end. Same thing other than the cost to lay new cables is almost insurmountable as opposed to just putting up another building. The key here is that you were protected from competition for 100 years. You shouldn't be allowed to build your empire under protection, then take advantage of said situation. You should have never had that protection. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 12/21/2010 4:30 PM, MDK wrote: Jeromie, my socialist (or was that anarchist, I can't ever remember) friend, how are ya? I was thinking about making a run to a wrecking yard up that way and stopping by to see how things were going. Anyway, each time I read this solution it reminds me why it won't work. Let's say I move to Cove. Buy the biggest building in town, and put in a grocery store. Along come the grocery neutrality advocates and require that I set aside space in my store for all the people who want to compete in the grocery market.If I knew that was going to happen, why would I be so brain dead stupid as to invest all my money in the first place?And if it happened after the fact, why would I continue to maintain the building and keep it open, for the benefit of others? YOU see this as an opportunity to capitalize on monopoly created investment, and getting your share of it. I look at it and notice that the business model it creates is insanity, and no effort will EVER be taken to be market oriented and innovative. YOu're just trading one set of problems for a future set of intractables, with EVERYONE invested into a system that's broken beyond hope. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ Right there you prove what many want. The last mile should not be held by someone with stakes in what drives OVER that road. Lets make the last mile open to all ISPs who want to build out to the CO. I would drop in VDSL in my town TODAY if I COULD get access to the CO but the FCC took that away from us. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
That was the camel's nose in the tent, so to speak. NN and content regulation is merely some more of the camel through the door and in the tent with you. Rate or price controls, coverage requirements, bandwidth specifications, and so on would be the rest of the camel in the tent. At that point, you don't control your own network, prices, or service. You merely manage a utility that's either going to be the surviving monopoly or go under, as the regulators continue to raise your costs by demanding more from you, while regulating your revenues. If you don't think they'll do that, please research obamacare where in a short period of time, insurers are allowed to: Sign people up. They will not be able to set their own rates, design their own product, or benefit from efficient operations - as required ratio of incoming to outgoing dollars is specified. I'll bet some of you even thought it was a good idea at the time, as long as it's not YOUR business. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: RickG Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless Yes, by the fact that a private person doing business is forced to report anything to the government is wrong. It breaks the trues spirit of capitalism freedom that this country was founded upon. Sorry to sound extreme but what will they force us to do next? On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: I don't think form 477 has anything to do with breaking anything. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 12/22/2010 12:44 AM, RickG wrote: The first step to breaking the net was form 477. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:57 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: The whole problem was creating monopolies in the first place, and then pretending you can fix what you broke by half-baked notions of government created markets... There is NOTHING broke about 'internet' because it hasn't been regulated. Your issue is nothing but a complaint about the results of what should never have been done in the first place. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless Well, no, what IS PROFOUNDLY BROKEN is that the ILECs are no longer required to be common carriers. They built their network using common carrier privileges. They got their market share using common carrier privileges. And then they turned around and got their common carrier obligations lifted by the profoundly corrupt Cheney-Rove FCC. So now they control the content on their wires, and you can't lease them. That's just wrong. And the Genachowski FCC isn't doing squat about that, though they absolutely have the power to do so. We do need a national common carrier utility. There is a clear distinction between carriage and content. ISPs are content, not carriage. And WISPs are self-provisioned ISPs who deliver content over unlicensed facilities without using a carrier, and without being one. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
[WISPA] I probably haven't been clear...
This business about winning and losing... For me, winning is about being in charge of my life and my business. Who has veto power over what I choose to do? Me. That's winning. Losing: When someone else has veto power over any decision I make. Example, the FCC decides which aspects of my business I can control, and which aspects THEY control. This is the precise argument over our nation's founding. The rebellious types decided they'd had it, and they wanted to govern their own lives. Now, it's really hard to have a nation, with NO GOVERNMENT, but that doesn't mean that you have to live with a tyrant deciding what powers to exercise.We gave government limited powers, and everything else IS UP TO US. Government does not get to decide what additional powers it has. It does not get to reinterpret the establishing contract ( Constitution) for itself. It has never been given that power. No branch of government is delegated interpretation power of the Constitution, by the Constitution, for instance. It stands on its own, with plain and obvious language anyone can understand. Not even the Supreme Court. Don't believe me? Read the Constitution. In a microcosm, this is my point of view.Neither Congress nor the FCC has any statutory authority in the Constitution to require you to do SQUAT, unless your business is somehow commerce between the states. And in that regard, it is still limited to the ability to override state policy toward commerce with ANOTHER STATE. Just because you buy internet in state 1 and sell it in state 2 does not mean that Congress now owns you. It just means that Congress can overrule any rules state 1 or 2 makes about what you do. When we take the attitude that it is inevitable that we are regulated as an industry, we have utterly forgotten the legal foundation of both OUR individual rights, our rights as business entities, and the statutory limitations of government. It's like establishing a contract between you and someone else, say, hiring a secretary, who, over time, decides that you are subservient to the employee you pay, and starts making your decisions for you. You, legally, would fire this person, and that's the end of that. Congress and the FCC simply do not have the authority to do many things they want to do. We should be bound, by civic duty, and by citizenship, to simply say No. It is US who should decide if we WANT any federal laws on the matter, and if so, we ask for them, and if we decide they can't do anything useful, we say no and send them packing. No, not the people who want to control their neighbor's business, but those who own the business decide. We are in an outside of the law situation. Both Congress and the various agencies have decided for themselves what powers to exercise, far in excess of their constitutional limitations.And, for whatever reason, we have a significant segment of the population who likes this situation, of having an unlimited and unrestricted government controlling them. Why unlimited? Well, if you specify what your employee is empowered to do, and instead, your employee takes upon themselves full control over your enterprise... Then the agreement between you is broken.Either you assert your contractual standards... or there are no standards. Either you enforce your employee's behavior, to contractual limitations... Or your employee just does WHATEVER he or she wants.It really is an all or nothing situation. If you do not assert your dominance, which exists as a matter of contractual law, then you have lost all authority to object to anything. You cannot, as a matter of consistency say I Object to the breaking of this part of the contract between you and me and at the same time, refuse to enforce most other provisions, and have any logical leg to stand on.If it's not all valid, then who gets to decide what is and what isn't? I've been called radical and all sorts of things for this thinking. But for the life of me, I cannot understand why. There's nothing radical about insisting that your contractual rights be respected. We have them, and they're contained in the Constitution. And it says that WE, as the people, control our government, FULLY, except for approximately 36 specific, delegated, enumerated responsibilities ( the number is debateable, what they are isn't), and we have a process called amendment that gives us power to both further delegate and to rescind. I want that contract respected and honored.How is that radical? And why do so many of you object? It's all about law, and contract. We as businesses operate on agreements. We have agreements with our customers. We do x, they do y. We're only in business so long as that specific relationship stays intact.If we don't perform and / or, they don't pay, then it all falls apart.If your provider fails to provide for you,
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
Hey Mark... This Mark is not anti-government, as in wanting anarchy. I'm still trying to grasp the thinking of people who welcome regulation. Perhaps my understanding is better and thus, I write better. I don't know. Thanks. However, as for giving WISPA money and promoting it... That will happen when or if WISPA officially adopts policies that I can support. But not until then. Don't ask me to change your organization. I was once in it and financially supported it and it took positions contrary to what I can support, so I left. That has to change before I will come back. Simple enough? You (as leaders and members of WISPA) really do have to decide where you're going, and if that's the same way, or close enough, that I can support, I will. Please don't ask me to jump into a contrarian situation, where I'm the odd man out, with an invitation to seek to change your organization around you. That's seriously chaos and results in severe discord. Ya'll don't need that ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless Normally I don't open a message from MDK for fear of witnessing what I have become accustomed to. It took me a few days to do it, but I did open this thread. And I have to say I don't mind reading it. I may not agree with anything or agree with part, but the point is that I don't mind reading this, whereas I did in the past. For that effort, I say well done Mark. You've found a way to get your points across without clouding the issue with anti-government opinions. Now pay the fee join WISPA and help make change... Those of us who do would appreciate that (money where the mouth is, that kind of thing). WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
Fred, your commentary on the written statutory and agency aspects of the events is admirably good and clear. However, we philosophically disagree vehemently, apparently, on the conclusions or judgements you make about things. I disagree almost entirely about the need or value of utilities as monopolies, or extremely regulated agents of government want and policy. I believe these have hurt us as a nation immensely. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Fred Goldstein Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless At 12/23/2010 02:19 PM, MDK wrote: That was the camel's nose in the tent, so to speak. NN and content regulation is merely some more of the camel through the door and in the tent with you. Rate or price controls, coverage requirements, bandwidth specifications, and so on would be the rest of the camel in the tent. At that point, you don't control your own network, prices, or service. You merely manage a utility that's either going to be the surviving monopoly or go under, as the regulators continue to raise your costs by demanding more from you, while regulating your revenues. Actually, regulated utilities are a good thing. That's the point of there being a utility: It provides a necessary service to the public whose value is largely external to the utility itself, and which is not normally competitive. Hence it is usually regulated in a manner that ensures a fair profit for investors, while protecting consumers against price gouges. These are usually safe investments, so called widows and orphans stocks. However, it's necessary to define what is and what isn't a utility. Telephone companies are traditionally treated as utilities, though they no longer wish to be, except when it convenes them. ISP, in contrast, were created as the customers of the telephone utility, protected *from* misbehavior *by* the utility by regulation. The lifting of that utility-like rule -- in particular, Computer II -- led to the neutrality kerfuffle. Regulating ISPs per se *as* utilities, while popular among those who, for instance, created that silly mock tiered-service flyer in 2006, is a different issue. ISPs are being used as substitutes for utilities, because the Bells offer ISP services and have withdrawn their utility services. That does not argue against regulation of all utilities; it argues for maintaining a distinction between utility and customer. Because the FCC failed again to cite the Title II common carrier function as a basis for its rules, and maintains an artificial integration of content and carriage when the content is an ISP, its new regulations are likely to be voided. If they had cited a Title II function, it would have been unlikely to impact WISPs, who have never been Title II carriers. If you don't think they'll do that, please research obamacare where in a short period of time, insurers are allowed to: Sign people up. They will not be able to set their own rates, design their own product, or benefit from efficient operations - as required ratio of incoming to outgoing dollars is specified. I'll bet some of you even thought it was a good idea at the time, as long as it's not YOUR business. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: RickG Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless Yes, by the fact that a private person doing business is forced to report anything to the government is wrong. It breaks the trues spirit of capitalism freedom that this country was founded upon. Sorry to sound extreme but what will they force us to do next? On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: I don't think form 477 has anything to do with breaking anything. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 12/22/2010 12:44 AM, RickG wrote: The first step to breaking the net was form 477. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:57 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: The whole problem was creating monopolies in the first place, and then pretending you can fix what you broke by half-baked notions of government created markets... There is NOTHING broke about 'internet' because it hasn't been regulated. Your issue is nothing but a complaint about the results of what should never have been done in the first place. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589
Re: [WISPA] Wow
You know, the thing about this, is that it would probably be GOOD, not bad. It would eventually result in people noticing that data consumption is a little like your water bill... The more you use, the more it costs. These people believe that an ISP's connection to you is unlimited... All you can consume, 24/7. And they base their premise that pricing to pay for that kind of use, is what people are paying, and that's not true. What people are paying for, is the average between the users. Eventually, I see people ASKING to not pay the ever growing bill that will be required when everyone ( not really, just a significant percentage, like 10 to 30% of users) streams the evening news, 5 hours of nightly entertainment movies, tv shows, live peer to peer entertainment and transfers, and other such bandwidth hungry services. If I could buy at a carrier hotel, for $1/Mbit, and had no transport costs, save my own network, my pricing structure STILL FAILS at about 4 - 8 times the usage that my average customer now consumes and I'm faced with raising rates. And, that customer is using between 8 and 12 times what he did just 6 years ago. IE, it's not that long when the internet bandwidth price just may not matter - no matter how cheap it becomes, and that the final mile and next to final mile costs will be what drives the price and the way of marketing services. I don't have a great deal on bandwidth, but it's not a BAD deal on bandwidth, and honestly, the bandwidth cost, though a significant component of the monthly outgo, and I expect it to fall per meg over time, is going to be less and less relevant - and the cost of delivering that final and next to final mile, along with customer service, is going to be the BIG cost. What's this mean, in 5 years? I think it means that either certain means of offering internet are either going to become a menu of services with a price attached to each, or the overall cost to the consumer is going to climb so far that people are going to demand tiered services so that they, themselves, choose consumption levels they are willing to pay for. I could be all wrong, here, but, hey... It's almost a new year, so I'm donning my prophet hat and shooting off my mouth. Let the debates commence. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
The whole problem was creating monopolies in the first place, and then pretending you can fix what you broke by half-baked notions of government created markets... There is NOTHING broke about 'internet' because it hasn't been regulated. Your issue is nothing but a complaint about the results of what should never have been done in the first place. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless Well, no, what IS PROFOUNDLY BROKEN is that the ILECs are no longer required to be common carriers. They built their network using common carrier privileges. They got their market share using common carrier privileges. And then they turned around and got their common carrier obligations lifted by the profoundly corrupt Cheney-Rove FCC. So now they control the content on their wires, and you can't lease them. That's just wrong. And the Genachowski FCC isn't doing squat about that, though they absolutely have the power to do so. We do need a national common carrier utility. There is a clear distinction between carriage and content. ISPs are content, not carriage. And WISPs are self-provisioned ISPs who deliver content over unlicensed facilities without using a carrier, and without being one. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
I'm sure you mean well, but I'm not even stirred up yet. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 6:27 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless 'Dude'... get a grip.. get out of this business, get some sanity into your life... this kind of stress is not good... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
Bob, that's about the truest comments on the matter... ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Bob Moldashel Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:34 AM To: li...@stlbroadband.com ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless Excuse me but is your signature big enough on this e-mail?? :-) regarding this FCC thing... Some how, some way this thing will bite us in the butt and reward the big guys. -B- On 12/20/2010 8:05 PM, St. Louis Broadband wrote: Yes it is! Victoria Proffer - President/CEO www.ShowMeBroadband.com www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Joe Fiero Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 4:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless It's good to see all our efforts pay off. REUTERS updated 2 minutes ago 2010-12-20T21:45:55 WASHINGTON - The Federal Communications Commission is expected to adopt Internet traffic rules on Tuesday that would ban the blocking of lawful content, but allow high-speed Internet providers to manage their networks, senior agency officials said Monday. Commissioners Michael Copps and Mignon Clyburn had expressed concerns with the proposal laid out by FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski early this month, but senior FCC officials said they had come to an agreement and are expected to vote in favor of the rules. Genachowski proposed banning the blocking of lawful traffic but allowing Internet providers to manage network congestion and charge consumers based on Internet usage. The rules would be more flexible for wireless broadband, Genachowski said in a previous speech, acknowledging that wireless is at an earlier stage of development than terrestrial Internet service. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
The problem we have here, Faisal, is not about constructive criticism. I am not arguing the value of policy X vs policy Y, but frustrated that the vast majority of US, who have the most to lose, speak of these things in terms of such inevitability, as if losing the battle against overreaching feds has already been lost, and all that's left is to try to weasel some kind of benefits for ourselves. And thus, my undying anger toward a former WISPA leader who went to the FCC and suggested that they START poking their nose in our business. His intention was to get us political status, so that we could get our nose into the government trough. That's the kiss of death, and somehow, we've managed to avoid the bullet so far, all hope is NOT lost. And that's where it all has gone awry. And I’m not taking this as personal, relax. The point is, we should not be debating the value of regulation X vs the value of regulation Y, but instead seeking to make alliances in Congress to FOREVER butt the government (fcc, etc) out of our business. I wrote about 9 months ago, that the new Congress coming would have some very strong allies in that regard, and that there's a change coming, one so big that it'll change our possible future. Why should we roll over and play dead, failing to ally ourselves with friends in Congress who WANT to exempt us entirely from any meddling in our business? Why should we play the FCC's game, when there's a much bigger and much better idea - to gain our freedom to do business without having an endless worry about what the changing faces at the FCC are going to do - and have that endless threat and constant looking over our shoulder, wondering when the sword will fall, the train will come down the tracks, or whatever other metaphor is most meaningful to you? This means that the money trough from Congress will go AWAY and that we have to earn our freaking keep from now on, with no subsidy, no grants, no loans, at the taxpayer expense. But I consider that the best business deal we could ever negotiate. The ANGER of many Congressmen have right now, as directed toward the FCC is one that makes my consternation seem like mild whining. The FCC is stepping on the toes of Congress, giving them the bird, so to speak. If you want strategy, then STRATEGY says we go to Congress. We have strong allies in both houses, but they need US to give them cover politically, so they can bully the rules through they want, and it really DOES mean freedom for us. When was the last time a Congress had a near majority in both houses that decided they should BUTT OUT of an industry? Well, we have it. And it will be messy. And controversial. And some people are going to get all bent out of shape, because they WANT money, more than they want freedom. I asked this list almost a year ago, directed my comments at the leadership of WISPA, and it said basically the following: How long are you going to try to straddle this? How long is the leadership going to mouth we need freedom to operate our business with the contradicting premise of we want to get federal money and subsidies? The latter never comes with the former.WISPA is going to have to take a stand, either it's going to say we invite and recognize the value of regulation of ISP business, network, and policies or, it's going to have to say We believe that our industry is best UNREGULATED. And they punted. Instead, I was told to shut the hell up and not bring it up again. Instead of sitting down and asking our contacts in DC who our friends are, in terms of getting us permanent free market status, the leadership chose to continue straddling the fence, so as to not rock the boat.And, I will NOT support WISPA, until or unless it actually grows a pair and fights, not to encourage and promote us being regulated, but the RIGHT thing, which is our independence. Those people who were denigrated and put down, those tea party types, have suddenly gotten big pull in DC. And they want every ally they can get. And WE should be one of them. EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK for the last month, major opinion writers, congressmen, senators, and so on, have ARGUED for our NON regulated status all over the news, tv shows, cable, internet sites, newspapers, magazines, you name it. Where the hell are we? Afraid to say the word, all hunkered down and have already given up and declared dead - that being heavily regulated status being a foregone conclusion and our free market status lost. There's basically TWO organizations, the White House, and Genachowski himself that are pushing it, THAT IS IT. And they're a tiny, but loud minority, and they have the sympathy of Democrats. Both of the organizations pushing it, are well funded and are basically socialists, who push an agenda of extreme government power, over all things. In this is case, it is not us against Congress,
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise. From that point on, we have little to debate about. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 11:43 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless At 12/21/2010 01:57 PM, MDK wrote: The whole problem was creating monopolies in the first place, and then pretending you can fix what you broke by half-baked notions of government created markets... Uh, no. Wireline is a natural monopoly. That is NOT what it has sometimes been taken to mean, an excuse to regulate. Rather, it's an economics concept, which means that the cost of entering the market as a new provider is substantially higher than the cost to an existing provider of adding incremental capacity. In other words, the incumbent can always underprice the new entrant, so it's impossible to compete. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
So, I disagree with his premise, and his argument about the premise, that wired telephony is a natural monopoly, and I'm not allowed to say so? What, who speaks first is now the authority and cannot be questioned? All of what he said is based upon the natural monopoly premise, and since we disagree on that premise, we don't have anything to debate about what he said, I disagree with his conclusions. This is neither disrespectful nor insulting. And, since it's somewhat off the topic of this thread, I chose to not further pursue it. Now, can we get on with whatever our conversation will be about the matter of import, at least at this point in time? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 12:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless It is tough to have a meaningful discussion when you make comments as such .. You don't have to agree with Fred, but if you listen to him with and open mind, at worst you will end up learning about a whole series of events that got us this point... And it is not due to some individual who went to Washington and Kissed someone ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 12/21/2010 3:06 PM, MDK wrote: I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise. From that point on, we have little to debate about. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred Goldsteinfgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 11:43 AM To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless At 12/21/2010 01:57 PM, MDK wrote: The whole problem was creating monopolies in the first place, and then pretending you can fix what you broke by half-baked notions of government created markets... Uh, no. Wireline is a natural monopoly. That is NOT what it has sometimes been taken to mean, an excuse to regulate. Rather, it's an economics concept, which means that the cost of entering the market as a new provider is substantially higher than the cost to an existing provider of adding incremental capacity. In other words, the incumbent can always underprice the new entrant, so it's impossible to compete. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
Fred gave his reasons, which if I were to answer to, I'd have to quote him, but the gist of what he said, was that the NEXT operator to come along would have to pay MORE to compete than the original. That's about as flawed a premise for technological matters as it is possible to have. Technology gets CHEAPER as it become more popular, subsequent competitors pay LESS to provide services than the first. This is WHY telcos and utilities were given monopoly status in the first place, so they would be protected from competition, thereby ensuring healthy and long term profits from their investment. Fred used the example of roads, as a comparison. Hardly a valid one, since wire takes up minimal real space, and roads take up ALL the space we have for them. Roads are publicly owned, for the most part (yes, I know, private toll roads exist, but that's really outside of free market business, just the same), and consume the only space that exists for them, they live in a 2 dimension world. The two are NOT comparable, not even slightly. What's really at issue here, is that the incumbents were built with money extracted from the consumer at usurious rates, and profits were protected and guaranteed by both federal and state law. And, incumbents have the historical benefit of having had that guaranteed profit from which to build an infrastructure that competitors would not have, and would have to start from scratch.Ideas of separating the lines from the service are merely responses to that fact, and in no way fix the issue. It can't be fixed, but we could undo some of it, if we wanted. And, that would mean, quite simply, the deregulation and non-protected status of common carriers. Basically, just doing away with it entirely.Sadly, that leaves some with a historical advantage, but NOT one that cannot be overcome. RF space could be allocated to overcome the lack of land space that states have created by making monopolies out of rights of way, etc. There's myriad ways of putting the free back in the market, rather than just trying to rent-seek, by trying to divert profits or cash flow from one entity to another. States could recognize the validity of the need for free market services and stop protecting the incubent by allocation of space adequate for multiple competitors. I don't know why the idea of natural monopoly has such sway on some people. For the most part, it's just a dodge against doing the hard thing... Undoing historical mistakes. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 15:08, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: So, I disagree with his premise, and his argument about the premise, that wired telephony is a natural monopoly, and I'm not allowed to say so? If you claim telephony isn't a natural monopoly, by the definition of that phrase, you have to back up the assertion. By the macroeconomics definition of the phrase, telephone wires are pretty much a perfect example; what's your counter-argument? David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
Jeromie, my socialist (or was that anarchist, I can't ever remember) friend, how are ya? I was thinking about making a run to a wrecking yard up that way and stopping by to see how things were going. Anyway, each time I read this solution it reminds me why it won't work. Let's say I move to Cove. Buy the biggest building in town, and put in a grocery store. Along come the grocery neutrality advocates and require that I set aside space in my store for all the people who want to compete in the grocery market.If I knew that was going to happen, why would I be so brain dead stupid as to invest all my money in the first place?And if it happened after the fact, why would I continue to maintain the building and keep it open, for the benefit of others? YOU see this as an opportunity to capitalize on monopoly created investment, and getting your share of it. I look at it and notice that the business model it creates is insanity, and no effort will EVER be taken to be market oriented and innovative. YOu're just trading one set of problems for a future set of intractables, with EVERYONE invested into a system that's broken beyond hope. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ Right there you prove what many want. The last mile should not be held by someone with stakes in what drives OVER that road. Lets make the last mile open to all ISPs who want to build out to the CO. I would drop in VDSL in my town TODAY if I COULD get access to the CO but the FCC took that away from us. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Fred Goldstein Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 2:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless At 12/21/2010 05:14 PM, MDK wrote: Fred gave his reasons, which if I were to answer to, I'd have to quote him, but the gist of what he said, was that the NEXT operator to come along would have to pay MORE to compete than the original. Yes, to reach the first customer, as well as on a per-customer basis, which sets the price. If Bell has 100% of the market and you don't have lines, then you'd have to pull a line to reach your customer. That's a huge cost compared to their being able to use existing lines. If you won a 25% market share and they had 75%, then if your cost per mile were the same as theirs, your cost per home served would be three times theirs. If you don't know the impact of that, look at RCN's sad history. Hint: It's in my book. Five billion dollars lost in four years. The average cost per customer goes UP as you expand, not down - when discussing wires. And nobody starts a telco based on having ONE customer. Instead, you pull lines and invest in plant to develop a business model that's better priced than your ILEC's average and undercut them to gain marketshare where you pass the customer. Yes, I know somewhere you have ONE customer, I had that experience a few years back, myself.This is because you have to reach farther and to less dense customers as you expand. Since that lowers your cost / customer, it allows you to siphon off the less costly to provision with lower prices, and it raises the cost per customer of the incumbent, as they lose customers in close (cheap) and their mix becomes more and more costly, as yours goes down... Eventually, the ILEC is a non-viable entity and will either be broken and consumed by competitors, or it will divest itself into smaller, lower-cost units. There ARE NO NATURAL MONOPOLIES in this business.There are natural sizes of maximum efficiency, and to be above or below will result in you being less than fully competitive. By their nature, the incumbents are too large to be efficient and are, given the proper political environment, fully vulnerable to competition. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
No, we LOST. You see, once they have the power, they have the power.It is not a victory to be partially regulated, or to get partial exemption. I cannot imagine why industry is rolling over and playing dead for this. As far as I'm concerned it's come and arrest me, coppers and I will damn well NOT comply. And if we all did that. They'd just give up. But we're too chicken to stand up for ourselves, as a country, anymore, apparently. I don't know when people forgot that according to the Constitution, we tell the government what to do and where to get off, not the other way around. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Joe Fiero Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 2:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless It's good to see all our efforts pay off. REUTERS updated 2 minutes ago 2010-12-20T21:45:55 WASHINGTON - The Federal Communications Commission is expected to adopt Internet traffic rules on Tuesday that would ban the blocking of lawful content, but allow high-speed Internet providers to manage their networks, senior agency officials said Monday. Commissioners Michael Copps and Mignon Clyburn had expressed concerns with the proposal laid out by FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski early this month, but senior FCC officials said they had come to an agreement and are expected to vote in favor of the rules. Genachowski proposed banning the blocking of lawful traffic but allowing Internet providers to manage network congestion and charge consumers based on Internet usage. The rules would be more flexible for wireless broadband, Genachowski said in a previous speech, acknowledging that wireless is at an earlier stage of development than terrestrial Internet service. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless
I am opposed to ALL aspects, period. Nothing is broken such that it needs the atomic bomb of government to fix it. This is a fix in desperate search of a broken and the closest thing to a broken they can find is a hypothetical that isn't a disaster in the first place. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jeromie Reeves jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 4:56 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless While I do agree with the idea that we need less regulation of (fixed) wireless and a lower barrier to entry for cellular wireless, I would like to knwo what parts of this particular proposal you have a issue with. I, personally, would love to see the layer 1 and layer 2+ be forcably broken apart for wired isps (IE, if you are a ILEC, you must have a separate business entity run the 2+, with set prices for everyone who wants to be a layer 2+ entity on that layer 1 network) with wireless getting a mix of this (unlicensed is not bound to layer 1/2+ split, with some licensed being (like cellular) and some licensed not being bound (like 3.65, sub 700) and opening more spectrum (that is a mix of bound and non-bound) and see where that takes us. Time to wake up and go pickup the kids. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:30 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: No, we LOST. You see, once they have the power, they have the power. It is not a victory to be partially regulated, or to get partial exemption. I cannot imagine why industry is rolling over and playing dead for this. As far as I’m concerned it's come and arrest me, coppers and I will damn well NOT comply. And if we all did that. They'd just give up. But we're too chicken to stand up for ourselves, as a country, anymore, apparently. I don't know when people forgot that according to the Constitution, we tell the government what to do and where to get off, not the other way around. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Joe Fiero Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 2:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Flexible rules promised for wireless It’s good to see all our efforts pay off. REUTERS updated 2 minutes ago 2010-12-20T21:45:55 WASHINGTON — The Federal Communications Commission is expected to adopt Internet traffic rules on Tuesday that would ban the blocking of lawful content, but allow high-speed Internet providers to manage their networks, senior agency officials said Monday. Commissioners Michael Copps and Mignon Clyburn had expressed concerns with the proposal laid out by FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski early this month, but senior FCC officials said they had come to an agreement and are expected to vote in favor of the rules. Genachowski proposed banning the blocking of lawful traffic but allowing Internet providers to manage network congestion and charge consumers based on Internet usage. The rules would be more flexible for wireless broadband, Genachowski said in a previous speech, acknowledging that wireless is at an earlier stage of development than terrestrial Internet service. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Friday Funny
Ehhh... Not that strange. Several winters ago, we put in a small POP on the roof of a 2.5 story house in the mountains. You can stand on the roof and see, 17 miles away, the other end of the point, and with binoculars, see the house and all in the middle of wheat fields. This link runs between the peaks of two homes. from below, you can't find the upper one, because it's hidden between two masses of trees. We put the link in on a foggy day, and got a -73 or so signal on both ends and left happy. Several months later, after some phone calls to complain about irregular bandwidth, we discover that our link is now poor quality, down to about -86 or so. Again, cloudy day and we can't see into the mountains. But, we climbed to both ends, and upon taking stuff apart, appeared to find some moisture in one of the cable ends. Changing it all, we put it back up and it worked ok, but still weak. Shuffling the frequency around found that moving a couple channels over got us a -78 signal. Cool. So, it was left there. About two weeks later, we've got no signal again. But, a big storm is moving in and we're not going to climb ladders in the wild wind, and so tell the customers they'll have to wait till tomorrow. But the next day, the link is up and stronger than it's been in weeks. It came up during the night. So, unable to find anything wrong, we wait it out. This repeats itself twice more. Finally, after another storm clears yet again, we return to the top end, finding nothing wrong, go to the lower end, and having run the link in RM and AND looked at the path in Google Earth, I notice that the lower antenna is NOT aimed at our client's house on the mountain, but across a valley from it and we've been using a reflection off the hillside covered in snow! Each time the snow melted, the link died, but a storm came the NEXT day and put new snow down... A 10 degree or so adjustment in the antenna direction on the lower end results in us finding another peak in signal, where it has run perfectly fine ever since... The top antenna is still pointed the same, and even attempts to re-peak it end up exactly pointed as the first when we installed it. I have decided I am just a practicing WISP 'cause there ain't no way I'm ever getting this all right, just like a doctor... ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Marco Coelho Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List ; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] Friday Funny This must be strange propagation month. We've got a new installer who put a 900 MHz canopy with a yagi pointing to the south side of one of our towers 6 miles away. He gets a 56 signal, but it's really unreliable for some reason. He goes out there again to re-sight, same issues after a couple of days. I happen to look at the map for this customer. Whoa He is being shot to the BACK SIDE of a motorola 60° panel 900 MHz AP. 56 Signal from 6 miles away 180° out This 900 is there for spot application only. Never intended for over 3 mile shots, especially in the opposite direction! I need a beer. -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] anyone know what this is about?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us/19wiretap.html?_r=1 Quote: An Obama administration task force that includes officials from the Justice and Commerce Departments, the F.B.I.and other agencies recently began working on draft legislation to strengthen and expand the Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act, a 1994 law that says telephone and broadband companies must design their services so that they can begin conducting surveillance of a target immediately after being presented with a court order. There is not yet agreement over the details, according to officials familiar with the deliberations, but they said the administration intends to submit a package to Congress next year. Another quote: Another proposal would create an incentive for companies to show new systems to the F.B.I. before deployment. Under the plan, an agreement with the bureau certifying that the system is acceptable would be an alternative safe harbor, ensuring the firm could not be fined. I am obviously not being... anything other that correct to say People, this is serious... You can't deploy anything new until the government approves of it, or face massive liability for fines and fees? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] anyone know what this is about?
LOL... Seriously, I've not seen any mention of this anywhere on any of the wireless sites, nor any other news site... So, my question... Does anyone know anything about this? I'm thinking that just about every telecom/internet/isp/voip/etc engaged entity should be on high alert to head this off at the pass, so to speak. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: RickG Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] anyone know what this is about? They'll call it the obama-air bill. On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us/19wiretap.html?_r=1 Quote: An Obama administration task force that includes officials from the Justice and Commerce Departments, the F.B.I.and other agencies recently began working on draft legislation to strengthen and expand the Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act, a 1994 law that says telephone and broadband companies must design their services so that they can begin conducting surveillance of a target immediately after being presented with a court order. There is not yet agreement over the details, according to officials familiar with the deliberations, but they said the administration intends to submit a package to Congress next year. Another quote: Another proposal would create an incentive for companies to show new systems to the F.B.I. before deployment. Under the plan, an agreement with the bureau certifying that the system is acceptable would be an alternative “safe harbor,” ensuring the firm could not be fined. I am obviously not being... anything other that correct to say People, this is serious... You can't deploy anything new until the government approves of it, or face massive liability for fines and fees? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Sea Change - about the FCC
This morning my favorite news site had yet another article about the FCC, labled walking a fine line where they're distancing themselves a bit from full on telecom style regulation and trying to sell some vague in between approach. To be honest, the electorate isn't in favor of ISP regulation at all. The political activists are counting on a Sea Change in Congress with the elections coming up soon, and are chomping at the bit for change, including having Congress direct the FCC BY VOTE to leave ISP's alone. A few Congresscritters and indeed, some of the apparently soon be elected ones are willing to be activist in this regard to roll regulations back.Is this something we could get WISPA to officially support? I realize that this may seem premature, however... 1. Political climates change fast.The activists to deregulate things are fired up big time. We'd be just one thing they'd love to add to the list of overreaches, but few grasp the whys or hows.However, if sit and wait, while making no noise, it is unlikely we'll get very far. 2. The public is almost universally unaware that we're supposed to create and support the ability to fully capture everything an individual client does. When I explain it to them, they get narrowed eyes and start to get quite hostile. We WOULD have great public support for repeal. 3. Considerable attention is being given to the cost of mandates, as a form of hidden tax on business. Of course, nothing is set in stone until its set in stone, but should the sea change occur that's being predicted, the new Congress will be actively searching for and attempting to repeal overreaches. Is WISPA prepared to go to bat for us in this regard?If not, why not, what's needed? WISPA needs a well written, clear, and unambiguous statement ready to go in January, should we have the opportunity to make our voices heard by ears that think we have not just a right to be heard, but are indeed, on our side. Is this where WISPA is willing to go? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV White Space
Nothing will happen until the database is created. At that point, some software tool will search it for you, and once some equipment is built, it should auto-register for you, as well as control the channels. For the moment, there's nothing any of us can do. You can't stake out a claim, as the unlicensed scheme just doesn't create that opportunity. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jory Privett j...@wccs.net Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:40 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] TV White Space I was looking at the available channels in my area and realized that there are not many that can be used easily. There are a lot of operators that are competing here that will possibly want to use them also. My question is what will be the registration process to acquire this channel space? I have not seen any talk about it but with the very limited space available there has to be some type of registration/licensing. Also are there any rules on usage? I would hate for someone to register on the best channels and then not actually use them. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd, 2010
Oh... I thought it was just me having issues with the site. If you move REAL slow, it seems to work fine. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jeromie Reeves jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 8:11 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd,2010 sort and filter the fcc db, mainly for microwave links and tower locations. The spectrum bridge map does not work well for me, crashing often (both linux and windows) with tile errors. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd, 2010
It appears that you have, even if VHF-Lo turns out to be not workable, several UHF channels. Of course, if you have real estate on the hills to the north, east, and south, you're not too bad off, either. ( wife's mother lives in Yakima, son's going to be going to YVCC sometime soon, I think, I know the place somewhat.) I ran the center of town type of scenario, putting the spot somewhere a little west of the railroad tracks and just south of the downtown corridor. I suspect it may change if you move out toward Moxee or through the gap out toward Wapato, or up north toward Naches. The spectrumbridge tool works pretty decently, but it lacks explanation of some of the features. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Forbes Mercy Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 8:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd, 2010 Well since I'm Yakima you now have my attention! Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. On 9/25/2010 5:00 PM, MDK wrote: Your sarcasm would be, well, effective, if I weren't correct about there being no way to use it. No other WISP is going to be able to do what I can't do, either, Jack. In my town, there is ONE UHF channel. 6 mhz. That's it. In the mountains, where we need it due to forest, it can't be done.Get yourself a copy of Radio Mobile and check your HAAT, RM uses the FCC's requirement as its defaults. There's ONE VHF-HI channel.Two VHF-LO channels. And, as mentioned, the VHF low is so susceptible to noise I doubt anyone will even try to make anything work there. One flourescent light on and your internet goes dead... So, while this is fantastic in theory, in reality, this spectrum will not be useable to signficant level, by many WISP's. If you use the tools you have and start inspecting your sites, you'll find that there's a lot more use of TV space than you knew.And, some places are amazingly open. However, some of the rural guys will find lots of space. I hope, anyway. Gresham, OR, - 2 channels Portland, OR, - 2 channels Spokane, WA, 12 channels - but a good chunk won't work due to HAAT limitations. Libby, MT, 37 channels Moro, or, 36 channels ( population, 400?) Tacoma, WA, 12 channels yakima, WA , 14 Lawrence, KS. 12 The majority of examples above include at least half the channels in VHF. As I noted before, there ARE obstacles to overcome in using VHF, especially VHF-lo. Even VHF-hi could prove to be seriously susceptible to interference. Also, the VHF and and sometimes even UHF frequencies are subject to interference by skip, which will cause cyclical interference issues, by broadcasters far, far away. We'll find out when either makers trials leak results, or when people start trying. These are some of the technical issues that will become part of our vocabulary as we try to move into this. Has anyone here seen any trials done in the VHF frequencies? I did some propagation examples in my town, using RM and UHF, and it appears we're going to be limited to around 1.5 miles max distance, unless you can get your antenna near max height, both AP and client due the fact the fresnel zone is HUGE! I didn't dry the VHF bands, as I couldn't find quickly find any antenna specs published for the frequencies. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Jack Unger Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd, 2010 Hello Mark, Thank-you for your comments and thanks in advance for agreeing not to use the available TV White Space channels in your area. That will leave those open for another WISP to use. Thank you again and best regards, jack WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd, 2010
I'm not trying to throw cold water on you, but before anyone gets themselves all excited, they better make use of the spectrumbridge tool and see if they have ANY available channels.I'm relatively rural and I have ONLY 2-9. All other frequencies are either adjacent to in use or in use. And, at the low frequencies in use, I sort of doubt it will be well supported. Antenna issues for 2-6 make one wonder if it'll be used much at all. That's BELOW the FM band, and making use of antenna gain involves airplane size antennas.I'm not saying it can't work, but there's huge issues, making the range and practicality small. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Rick Harnish Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:07 PM To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' ; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd, 2010 Today's FCC decision to open up the TV Whitespaces for unlicensed operations is a decision that validates the WISP industry, WISPA, it's members and the grassroots efforts we have achieved since our birth in 2004. I would like to thank all of the WISP operators who have joined this movement and have supported our efforts to improve our industry's stake in the Broadband Service business landscape. WISPA isn't a business; it is a well defined association of member companies that have common interests and a drive to improve their businesses. It is quite remarkable what we can all do when we combine our forces. Today's MO on the TV Whitespaces included WISPA 88 times! We (WISPA) are now a household name with most of the lobbying groups (both opposition and supporters) in the broadband industry, the FCC and many legislators. We still need to work on the legislative lobbying effort and that will take each of our members to write to their congressman and senators, meet them personally and tell them our stories and successes. Although it may be out of many operator's comfort zone, it should be noted that they (legislators) all get up and get dressed every morning just like you and I. They are often former neighbors and have a passion to serve their local service areas, just like we do. We need to befriend these influential people and relay our passion to extend broadband ubiquitously. We estimate there are 2000-3000 WISPs in the USA. Nearly 400 have joined and support WISPA. We can further benefit our industry with greater participation from those who continue to sit on the sidelines. We invite those WISPs to join the rest of the operators by joining WISPA at http://signup.wispa.org. By joining WISPA, you become a co-owner of WISPA with all of the other members. Incidentally, I just received a call from Francois Menard, a very astute operator in Canada, who will be joining WISPA very soon. He thanked WISPA for our hard work and he would like to get a similar organization started in Canada or get more Canadian WISP companies to join WISPA. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot duplicate what we have achieved to assist our neighbors to the north with greater effectiveness. The telecom world is heating up, debate is dynamic and everlasting! Our work and lobbying continues or we will fade away through legislation without representation. We MUST speak up to hold our ground and seek new fertile ground. I work hard each day to stimulate the industry I so dearly love. I invite you to join our efforts. The technical talk is fine and needed, but without a playing field to place the infrastructure and achieve business success, the technical talk is all a moot point. Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd, 2010
Your sarcasm would be, well, effective, if I weren't correct about there being no way to use it. No other WISP is going to be able to do what I can't do, either, Jack. In my town, there is ONE UHF channel. 6 mhz. That's it. In the mountains, where we need it due to forest, it can't be done.Get yourself a copy of Radio Mobile and check your HAAT, RM uses the FCC's requirement as its defaults. There's ONE VHF-HI channel.Two VHF-LO channels. And, as mentioned, the VHF low is so susceptible to noise I doubt anyone will even try to make anything work there. One flourescent light on and your internet goes dead... So, while this is fantastic in theory, in reality, this spectrum will not be useable to signficant level, by many WISP's. If you use the tools you have and start inspecting your sites, you'll find that there's a lot more use of TV space than you knew.And, some places are amazingly open. However, some of the rural guys will find lots of space. I hope, anyway. Gresham, OR, - 2 channels Portland, OR, - 2 channels Spokane, WA, 12 channels - but a good chunk won't work due to HAAT limitations. Libby, MT, 37 channels Moro, or, 36 channels ( population, 400?) Tacoma, WA, 12 channels yakima, WA , 14 Lawrence, KS. 12 The majority of examples above include at least half the channels in VHF. As I noted before, there ARE obstacles to overcome in using VHF, especially VHF-lo. Even VHF-hi could prove to be seriously susceptible to interference. Also, the VHF and and sometimes even UHF frequencies are subject to interference by skip, which will cause cyclical interference issues, by broadcasters far, far away. We'll find out when either makers trials leak results, or when people start trying. These are some of the technical issues that will become part of our vocabulary as we try to move into this. Has anyone here seen any trials done in the VHF frequencies? I did some propagation examples in my town, using RM and UHF, and it appears we're going to be limited to around 1.5 miles max distance, unless you can get your antenna near max height, both AP and client due the fact the fresnel zone is HUGE! I didn't dry the VHF bands, as I couldn't find quickly find any antenna specs published for the frequencies. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Jack Unger Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Today is a Momentous Day for our Industry - Sept. 23rd, 2010 Hello Mark, Thank-you for your comments and thanks in advance for agreeing not to use the available TV White Space channels in your area. That will leave those open for another WISP to use. Thank you again and best regards, jack WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] testing... What happened?
Yes, Jim, put away the brainrot :) It seems Godaddy wasn't renewing a little used domain of mine and, well, the rest is obvious. :) ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jim Patient sa...@jeffcosoho.com Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] testing... What happened? No! Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosoho www.wlan1.com www.linktechs.net www.wifimidwest.com On 9/9/2010 10:21 PM, Robert West wrote: Put away the alcohol. It's all good -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 7:59 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] testing... What happened? There was a post 1.5 hours before this one. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/9/2010 1:28 AM, MDK wrote: No wispa traffic in days. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] testing... What happened?
No wispa traffic in days. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality statement from Genakowski
I find it disturbing that almost no public discussion of this is going on. Is this a matter where we think that the imposition will have little or no effect on us, or do we expect to simply ignore it, or is everyone just confident it won't happen? There's a lot going on, on many fronts, economic and social and governmental, and our collective future appears headed not just for us having loss on an individual basis, but full national currency and economic collapse. You'd think the public list would get mention of at least the FCC actions and planning to coordinate resistance - along with how it will affect everyone, be they WISPA centric or not. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Fred Goldstein Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 7:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality statement from Genakowski At 9/2/2010 05:59 PM, you wrote: How, uhh.. .do they propose to ban doing this? By permitting specialized services (anything other than a bog-neutral wide open Internet service) only under limited conditions. Among them are these proposals, from the new Further Inquiry: (E) Limit Specialized Service Offerings: Allow broadband providers to offer only a limited set of new specialized services, with functionality that cannot be provided via broadband Internet access service, such as a telemedicine application that requires enhanced quality of service.19 (F) Guaranteed Capacity for Broadband Internet Access Service: Require broadband providers to continue providing or expanding network capacity allocated to broadband Internet access service, regardless of any specialized services they choose to offer. Relatedly, prohibit specialized services from inhibiting the performance of broadband Internet access services at any given time, including during periods of peak usage.20 end quote -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Net Neutrality statement from Genakowski
Yesterday, the Chairman released a statement on net neutrality, which basically said We need more public comment. This an excerpt from his published statement: Recent events have highlighted questions on how open Internet rules should apply to 'specialized' services and to mobile broadband -- what framework will guarantee Internet freedom and openness, and maximize private investment and innovation. As we've seen, the issues are complex, and the details matter. Even a proposal for enforceable rules can be flawed in its specifics and risk undermining the fundamental goal of preserving the open Internet. Accordingly, the FCC's Wireline and Wireless Bureaus are seeking further public comment on issues related to 'specialized' (or 'managed') services and mobile broadband. The information received through this inquiry, along with the record developed to date, will help complete our efforts to establish an enforceable framework to preserve Internet freedom and openness. So, people, get your commentary in. If you're wondering how to approach it in an informative way, this link here might help. I'll give you specific permission to quote, copy, whatever... It's written simplistically, but addresses almost all aspects of net neutrality.If you have ideas that might improve this, let me know. http://hubpages.com/hub/Network-Neutrality-an-ISP-POV Honestly, people do not understand that there really truly cannot be perfect net neutrality, and that the way people define the term is widely varied. I've discussed this with numerous customers, and once they grasp what is being asked for and what is being proposed, and that the legal framework simply doesn't fit the service, they're never in favor of it. We need to blanket our country with this kind of informative statement. Thanks ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality statement from Genakowski
Could you give us all a link to these provisions? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 1:21 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality statement from Genakowski At 9/2/2010 03:20 PM, MDK wrote: Yesterday, the Chairman released a statement on net neutrality, which basically said We need more public comment. Yes, we'll need to send in more posts to keep them from producing rules that put WISPs and other competitive ISPs out of business. It looks as if this latest statement was hastily produced as a way to take what Verizon and Google agreed to and rapidly turn it into rules. Julius is enamored of the deal, for the deal's sake, whatever the deal is. He has a hard-on for FiOS and thinks Google is a deity, so their collective opinion trumps 310 million Americans' interests. Note how the proposed rules essentially outlaw the competitive provision of non-POTS telecommunications service (anything but plain Internet access). They suggest that a large ISP is allowed to offer some small percentage of their network for other offerings, but the types of services that IT managers need for business communications (links between their buildings, etc.) are apparently to be banned from open provision. This is just a little gotcha that Verizon snuck in, an exmaple of the type of idiocy that this proceeding, and the neutrality movement, has begotten. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality statement from Genakowski
How, uhh.. .do they propose to ban doing this? Note how the proposed rules essentially outlaw the competitive provision of non-POTS telecommunications service (anything but plain Internet access). They suggest that a large ISP is allowed to offer some small percentage of their network for other offerings, but the types of services that IT managers need for business communications (links between their buildings, etc.) are apparently to be banned from open provision. This is just a little gotcha that Verizon snuck in, an exmaple of the type of idiocy that this proceeding, and the neutrality movement, has begotten. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Katrina, Five Years Later
I'll second that.Mac, and all the other people who so selflessly put in money and time and pain and sleepless hours and living without showers for days to camping in crowded trailers and trying to get a cell signal and get communication out to get stuff in, for countless hours that'll never be punched on a time clock nor really ever accounted for... Your efforts displayed the finest part of human nature, even when you got tired and ill tempered or so fatigued you couldn't remember what town you were in. Thank you, to one and all. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 1:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Katrina, Five Years Later (from my blog, WirelessCowboys.com) It is now 5 years since Katrina hit New Orleans and changed the face of the Gulf Coast forever. One of the good things that came out of this disaster was the outstanding effort by wireless ISPs that came together to provide Internet and phone services to thousands of refugees from the storm.Mac Dearman stood at the center of that effort. I called Mac the day after Katrina hit to check in on him and see how bad off he had it. Other than a little damage, his network was in good shape. I called a couple of days later, and he told me stories about the refugees of the storm, churches and makeshift shelters filled to overflowing with people that had nothing more than the clothes on the backs. He and his employees had been working non-stop to put in Internet connections and voip phones at the shelters so that the people there would be able to contact their loved ones and start the process of applying for federal help.I could tell from the tone in his voice that he was completely worn out, but could not stop because this work had to be done. I got on a plane the next morning and headed down to help in any way that I could. Within two days after I arrived, there were at least 30 people camped out at Mac's farm near Rayville, Louisiana and semi loads of donated equipment had arrived that allowed us to put Internet, VOIP phones and computers at nearly every shelter in Mac's service area. I had to leave after a week, but Mac took his volunteer army of WISPs down to the Bay St. Louis and Gulfport areas along the coast and kept going until the next spring. It was truly an amazing effort, done with no government support, purely with volunteer help and donated equipment. The campaign to help people after Katrina was a pinnacle moment of the infant WISP industry, and a perfect illustration of the ability of WISPs to provide critical services quickly, efficiently and professionally. Thank you Mac, and thanks to all of the volunteers that were able to take the time to help him out. WISPs everywhere owe you a debt of gratitude. More reading: http://www.redherring.com/Home/15053 http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/10/03/mac.dearman/ Matt Larsen Vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Suggestions for high bandwidth @ 25 miles.
But that's close in. Throughput falls drastically as the distance goes up. Even when the radio rates stay up, throughput falls. I have an 11 mile p2p link in production now. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions for high bandwidth @ 25 miles. I have NSM5 that do 150 megs aggregate right now. On Aug 30, 2010 11:09 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: I've already got UBNT stuff in production, and I know without a doubt it won't handle 100m full duplex - especially at 25 miles. Might be possible to do parallel links or something, but that would require some kind of load failover system at each end, since no way will it do 100 m one way, if there's any backward traffic. What Proxim stuff? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 +... From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions for high bandwidth @ 25 miles. Proxim, Ubiquiti M... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne ... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Suggestions for high bandwidth @ 25 miles.
As the distances go up, the longer it takes for the packet to be transmitted from one point to another, and the round trip time grows, which reduces the throughput. My experience is, that it would be all but impossible to do two parallel links in 5 ghz with UBNT stuff, as the antennas are not sufficiently isolated from each other, and despite being on channels that don't overlap, they still seem to have issues from strong nearby signals.And that would be even more true, using 40 mhz channels, as the spectrum it's listening to is so much wider. Perhaps my early hardware hasn't the selectivity of later, but I haven't heard there's significant differences. It was really my first thought, but so far I don't see it as viable unless somehow I can physically isolate the two links so they don't hear the closer transmitter. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions for high bandwidth @ 25 miles. On 8/31/2010 11:44 AM, MDK wrote: Even when the radio rates stay up, throughput falls. Haven't seen that. There are some issues as such due to alignment, firmware and Ack settings... that affect all links, medium range long range. To get to higher end of the throughput / over the air rate, you will need to use 40meg channel / have a nice clean connection in the -60's... Faisal WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Slight variations in antenna height, big path loss change
I won't claim any great expertise here, but I have seen the same from RM. There is some minor thing wrong with the way Fresnel is calculated that seems to cause this. If you leave the link right as it is, but change the overall size of your map, you may find that the odd up and down rssi calculation goes away.It has worked for me before. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred R. Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:34 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Slight variations in antenna height, big path loss change I'm doing some path loss estimates in RadioMobile. Mainly 5.8 GHz stuff. I have a place where I'd like to run a point-to-multipoint sector as an injection feed to multiple APs in the mesh. This would need to run AirMax or Nstreme or NV2 in order to manage the traffic, but that part seems easy enough. If I don't use NV2 and claim the SkyPilot rule, then my ERP is capped at +36 dBm. (So I'm kind of marginal on path loss already.) I can use a 20 dB sector antenna (AM2-60), whose footprint covers all of the APs I'd like to reach, up to 22 kilometers away. The APs are set to have 24 dB panel antennas. So they can run point to point ERP upstream, to the extent that it helps the fade margin in that direction. BTW the paths are mostly over water, but elevated by more than 2-3 Fresnel zones. Now here's the weird part. In RadioMobile, when I adjust the PtMP end's height in half-meter increments, path loss jumps all over the place. To one destination 18.5 km away: At 7 meters, 134.5 dB. At 7.5 meters, 144.7 dB. At 8 meters, 139.3 dB. At 8.5 meters, 134.4 dB. At 10 meters, 137.0 dB. Now to a different destination only 12.5 km away (the closest one), I get: At 7 meters, 137.4 dB. At 7.5 meters, 150.7 dB. At 8 meters, 132.2 dB. At 8.5 meters, 131.7 dB. At 10 meters, 136.5 dB. Well, the obvious answer so far might be to avoid the 7.5 meter height, but now going to a third destination 16.8 kilometers away, I get: At 7 meters, 141.6 dB. At 7.5 meters, 134.3 dB. At 8 meters, 136.6 dB. At 8.5 meters, 139.5 dB. At 10 meters, 151.9 dB. So there's no height that makes everyone happy, and that assumes I actually get a choice of height. Most likely it goes on the power pole wherever they let us attach it. And tweaking the remote ends doesn't make that much difference at all. So here's the question. Is this type of variation likely to exist in the real world, or is this just RadioMobile's propagation model being overly sensitive? Thanks! -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti AirMax Sectors
The H/V patterns DO NOT PERFECTLY OVERLAP.Duhhh. Had some strange RSSI anomalies I could not understand until I moved the antenna. Actually pointing it farther away resulted in better RSSI. There seem to be some mild nulls at or rather near the edges of the beams, where the V and H will have up to 5 db difference between them. For the price, they are really hard to beat, however. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:46 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti AirMax Sectors Any feedback on these at 5 Ghz would be appreciated WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Suggestions for high bandwidth @ 25 miles.
Assuming that spectrum (frequencies open) is not a problem, what would you use in the 5 ghz range to reach 25 miles?Want to do full duplex 100 M ethernet connection. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 1:50 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] (DIRECTLY) Connecting two wireless with a RF cable Hi all I was wondering if directly connecting two wireless cards would burn them. The point is not the power sent by the two cards, but if the impedance is not the right one. Indeed in the normal use with the antenna the impedance is not the same of using a direct cable from one card to another. Not sure what impedance the RX card would show to the TX card Any idea? I am quite curious. Anybody using this configuration in daily installations? Thank you -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Suggestions for high bandwidth @ 25 miles.
I've already got UBNT stuff in production, and I know without a doubt it won't handle 100m full duplex - especially at 25 miles. Might be possible to do parallel links or something, but that would require some kind of load failover system at each end, since no way will it do 100 m one way, if there's any backward traffic. What Proxim stuff? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions for high bandwidth @ 25 miles. Proxim, Ubiquiti M... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 7:18 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Assuming that spectrum (frequencies open) is not a problem, what would you use in the 5 ghz range to reach 25 miles?Want to do full duplex 100 M ethernet connection. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 1:50 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] (DIRECTLY) Connecting two wireless with a RF cable Hi all I was wondering if directly connecting two wireless cards would burn them. The point is not the power sent by the two cards, but if the impedance is not the right one. Indeed in the normal use with the antenna the impedance is not the same of using a direct cable from one card to another. Not sure what impedance the RX card would show to the TX card Any idea? I am quite curious. Anybody using this configuration in daily installations? Thank you -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar power setup
Send me an email offlist at mark (at) neofast dot net and I'll design the whole system for you, including what kind of reliability, etc, for your locality. I'll even find you good prices and the right kind of parts to make it work well. I know the best places to buy pretty much everything. I just need to know where it's for and may want some intel about your local conditions. Thanks ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Glenn Kelley Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 7:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] solar power setup I am looking for a shopping list to build for the following setup: I need to create a solar power setup for a remote location The location will be running two Ubiqutiy 5ghz radios - not much. I would like to have enough battery power to last say 4 days w/ the system not having any sun - but I could live with 48 hours ... Does anyone have a good source for inexpensive (but good) solar panels? and perhaps a good shopping list for this project. my first time getting into the solar stuff... I moved about 8 miles out of town and need to setup a point to point w/ a hop in between to the house _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Matchmaker and Taxpayer Waste
Make the message simple and easy to understand. END IT! Might even sell. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Rick Harnish Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:04 PM To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Matchmaker and Taxpayer Waste Today I had a farmer in rural Illinois call me. He is building a new 110' grain leg and was inquiring on what it would take to do wireless Internet from it. He says he has DSL now from a rural telephone coop but they won't sell him wireless service from one of their towers ½ mile away because he has DSL. This farmer would like to get rid of his phone line and all of the expense and taxes with it. Obviously, the rural telco does not want to give up their USF subsidies by converting this customer over to wireless. I was able to locate a WISPA member within 40 miles of his farm and introduced the two. I hope it works out for both the farmer and the WISPA member. The reason I bring this up is that it is evidence that USF subsidies are outdated and burdensome to Broadband competition and deployment. The loss of income from federal USF subsidies, far outweigh the cost savings to the customer. It is no wonder that people want to ditch their phone lines so badly. With the federal government subsidizing this ancient copper telco infrastructure at an estimated average of $17,000 per line per year, common sense would tell every taxpayer in the US that the time for USF reform is now. Is it time to make some noise about this unfairness in the market place? I think so! Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation
I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount of money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, rather than about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and maintain it. As far as I know, it has been a disaster, but they're now so invested in it they won't change.This is a very small reservation, and they only wanted to get broadband to the most densely populated part of it. I may still end up putting in wireless to the remote parts, since lots of non-indians live out there. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Rick Harnish Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' ; motor...@afmug.com Cc: 'A Goldman' Subject: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections International). Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well. Between now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country that may have worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working with them. Part of Alex's articles will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with the Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of anyone's experiences. NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to assist in the implementation of the projects. If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you in the next week. Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation
Mind you that sovereign part only applies to whatever they wish to apply it to. They're not at all, when it suits them. IN this, they have their cake, eat it, and expect us to give them an unlimited supply, as well. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Jack Unger Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation Gosh, I just do not understand how some native American peoples could feel so territorial. What's up with that??? Forbes Mercy wrote: Travis, I totally understand since 2003 I have tried to get on tribal hills and unless I piggyback on an existing tower all I can get is we want to do Internet ourselves, I check back in every two to three years, same thing. I should feel lucky they haven't tried to ban us. Forbes On 8/13/2010 1:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that bans all outdoor antennas on any structure (including their homes, sheds, garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 or 3 other providers), but technically they could enforce it. The reason? Because they are going to do their own internet, TV and VoIP solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+ years and have not installed a single piece of equipment. They have two nice water towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right in the middle of their area... but they won't allow ANYONE on any of it because they are going to do it. This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't compete in the real world. They won't allow us to bring them technology that would help all their people. Instead they just built a huge new Tribal headquarters and are trying to get money to build a huge gambling casino. Travis Microserv MDK wrote: I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount of money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, rather than about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and maintain it. As far as I know, it has been a disaster, but they're now so invested in it they won't change.This is a very small reservation, and they only wanted to get broadband to the most densely populated part of it. I may still end up putting in wireless to the remote parts, since lots of non-indians live out there. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Rick Harnish Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' ; motor...@afmug.com Cc: 'A Goldman' Subject: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections International). Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well. Between now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country that may have worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working with them. Part of Alex's articles will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with the Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of anyone's experiences. NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to assist in the implementation of the projects. If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you in the next week. Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation
YOu have it all wrong. Suppose you live in a land where your culture is incapable of dealing with the rest of the world around it, but the invaders are bleeding hearts who give you land and let you try to continue your incompatible culture unchanged in a world where it is outdated, outmoded and incapable of survival. In which case, the powers that be grant you money to live on while you pretend to pursue the preservation of your dead and unviable culture.It leads to a mess, a huge mess, a world of despondency, want, dependency and hopelessness. Ya'll need to understand that the indian wars were never over land.The ownership culture of the whole rest of the world was irrelevant. Instead, the wars were fought over the idea that the world was being transformed around them, and some believed they should fight it, rather than adjust. IT was a fight over resources - the kind of inter-tribal conflict that had gone on for centuries untold - except it wasn't a fight against another tribe, it was a fight against a culture armed with knowledge, technology, communication, law, and wealth. And neither understood it. Had we handed the western half of the country to the natives and just drew a line around them and made it do not cross boundaries, the failures of the various cultures would still have occurred, and so would have the diseases, and so on.And worse, people with less scruples than the schmucks who wrote treaties with them, would have invaded for the wealth and simply wiped 'em out. Sadly, reservations did nobody any favors, it perpetuated the myth that primitive culture can survive a modern world and that you can mix the two with impunity, using political considerations as the measuring cup. We know that cultures CAN adapt to both the knowledge and science of the world around them, and can adapt to changes in ideas about rights and ownership and written law, etc. Modern indians want the consumer trappings of modern life... while living without the cultural qualities that made it possible to achieve them - or at least the reservation mentality seeks to keep it that way. I've ranted long enough off topic... Let's just leave at this : Reservation mentality and attempts to preserve cultures unchanged are exercises in a level of imbecility so monumental, with results so horrible, it is simply a crime against humanity. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:52 PM To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation At 8/13/2010 04:15 PM, lakeland wrote: Hm. How do you become a soverign nation? Well, you start by having a big country. Then you get invaded and settled by people with better weapons, and diseases that wipe out 90% of your population. Then wars are fought which kill more of them and take away more land, settled with treaties supposedly guaranteeing them sovereignty on at least limited land. Then the survivors are forced off their land, at least all of the good land, into deserts and small reservations, where they're mistreated for another century. Finally they get good lawyers and lobbyists and open casinos. Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an Integrator. :-) When you add it all up, I don't really think so. :-( -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Coronal Mass Ejection
I've got a number of links and customers and whatnot, in the LONG category, many past 20 miles.lots of backhauls over 10 miles. So far, haven't seen anything I recognize as something unusual. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 1:47 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Coronal Mass Ejection I thought so but had to ask. I've got some strange things going on so I'm wondering but hate to jump to conclusions. On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: http://www.google.com/search?q=geomagnetic+storms+wirelessie=utf-8oe=utf-8aq=trls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialclient=firefox-a Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 3:23 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How does this apply to wireless? On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: 04 AUG 2010 -- Fromhttp://www.spaceweather.com The second CME is still en route. NOAA forecasters estimate a 35% chance of major geomagnetic storms when the cloud arrives on August 4th or 5th. High-latitude sky watchers should remain alert for auroras. Friendly Regards, Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Link - Poor Performance
I've had several UBNT devices lose output power suddenly. Then one side of the link is about 18-20 db lower than the other, and the throughput goes away, badly. Do you have a large RXSL differences between sides on any link? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 1:01 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Link - Poor Performance Here is a good one! I have a short link of about 3 miles from my main tower to another. On the main tower I have four UBNT 5G-20-90's with RockeyM5's running firmware 5.2. All have performed very well since I installed them earlier this year. On the other end at the problem tower I have a 26Db grid with a BulletM5 also running fw5.2. The link was doing well until two days ago. Then, the latency went through the roof. I assumed it was the radio but after switching it out twice, I decided to blame the antenna. So, I swapped out the grids multiple times. Then decided to try a Nanostation, and a Nanobridge but got worse results. I'd blame the sector on the main tower but another link on it remains working well. There is a topology difference between the working link and the poor link with the later being higher. There is some noise in the area but not unusual. What I do note is that the main tower does not see the far end very well (-78) and it should really be much higher. The receive rate is only 6.5Mbps. At any rate, I've got about 3 dozen subs on this tower and worked on it until 5am so I'm ready for some fresh input! Thanks in advance! -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tell Google not to destroy the Internet
This is about business. Don't insult us by posting Huffington as anything but trash. There's no detail in the story whatsoever, to judge the merits of the conclusions of the writer, so I assume it's pure trash, like everything else on Huffington. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Tell Google not to destroy the Internet http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-silver/google-verizon-deal-the-e_b_67 1617.html They are closing a deal with Verizon on Monday that will essentially blackmail content providers. Want your content to get through faster? Pay us. That is pretty much it in a nutshell. Maybe ISPs around the world should block Google entirely unless they pay you then. Patrick As an individual WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tell Google not to destroy the Internet
Same problem. There was no detail in the story. Nothing. did not explain HOW it was supposed to work, etc. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:05 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tell Google not to destroy the Internet It was off of a NYT news article. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 3:01 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: This is about business. Don't insult us by posting Huffington as anything but trash. There's no detail in the story whatsoever, to judge the merits of the conclusions of the writer, so I assume it's pure trash, like everything else on Huffington. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Tell Google not to destroy the Internet http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-silver/google-verizon-deal-the-e_b_67 1617.html They are closing a deal with Verizon on Monday that will essentially blackmail content providers. Want your content to get through faster? Pay us. That is pretty much it in a nutshell. Maybe ISPs around the world should block Google entirely unless they pay you then. Patrick As an individual WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tell Google not to destroy the Internet
Want your internet to move faster, pay me more money.I tell my customers that. Wow, what a criminal I am. Destroying the internet. Sheesh.Can we get past the noise and on to what an immense opportunity this would be for private enterprise to thrash Verizon? If Qwest, Charter would just get into these agreements, my phone would ring like never before and I'd be hiring people ot keep up with the demand. All we have to fear is government.Period. It is the only deadly enemy. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Tell Google not to destroy the Internet http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-silver/google-verizon-deal-the-e_b_67 1617.html They are closing a deal with Verizon on Monday that will essentially blackmail content providers. Want your content to get through faster? Pay us. That is pretty much it in a nutshell. Maybe ISPs around the world should block Google entirely unless they pay you then. Patrick As an individual WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small Businesses
That came to the attention of the list several months ago.What's come out since then, is that the IRS itself hasn't the capacity to even deal with the 1099's, nor have they the automated capacity to do what Congress intended they use them for. Nor has Congress provided the means of funding the changes necessary to do so. The IRS is attempting to thin the number of 1099's by administrative relief, by saying that all credit card and debit card transactions, for instance, are going to be exempt.However, that's not set in stone, because it is actually re-writing what Congress clearly intended in the bill. I believe there's some Republican congresscritters who are seeking to repeal this, specifically, but right now, I'm not in possession of that factually, I don't know the names. This rule was imposed by Obamacare, and was written into health care reform. There's a very sizeable number of states and other individuals, as well as class action lawsuits (of which I am a member of one) who is suing Congress over a number of provisions in the bill.Overlooked by the writers, was the need to write severability into the bill, so if any portion or part or segment or function of it is found illegal or unenforceable or unconstitutional by the courts, the whole will be nullified. So, while yeah, this looks like a big deal for some, it may, if the lawsuits win, turn out to be nothing, and a lot of our headaches can or will be dispatched in court. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Matt lm7...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 7:16 AM To: motor...@afmug.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small Businesses http://www.toolkit.com/news/newsDetail.aspx?nid=10-161Form1099 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?
Fred, a guy on the UBNT site was offering some RF shields for the UBNT sectors. Those, combined with spacing and screening and grounding, appeared to bring the RXSL down low enough to actually put the same frequencies on the same tower.Or, if it were a building or water tank, But, Airmax does not provide immunity from self interference on its own. I know, I tried. I put a backhaul and sector on the same frequency and when the sector was busy, it seriously degraded the backhaul's throughput. And vice versa. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred R. Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency? If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one? The 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] net neutrality, there may be hope yet...
On the political side of the issue, the anti-Genakowski allies are increasing in number and strength. http://biggovernment.com/smotley/2010/08/03/another-week-of-growing-opposition-to-fccs-internet-grab/#more-152353 I, for one, think that if Comcast Charter or Qwest, or anyone, started deprioritizing specific content or blocking certain content providers, that our business could boom.I'm getting ready to actually compete with dsl and cable in my first town. Some trepidation at that, wondering if I'm going to be investing with little return, but it seems to me that we'd be far better off keeping the FCC far, far from our network administration decisions. I'm curious what stand WISPA has officially taken, and how it's being followed up. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
I have limited sympathy with your comments for a simple reason...Health Care IS NOW a political topic.So is broadband. So is internet network operations. So is bandwidth control, so is hiring someone, so is firing someone, so are the money management choices you make, so is retirement, so are benefits, so are, well, dang near every aspect of our business lives. I'd say none of us, at least the smaller guys, asked for any of this to be brought upon us.20 years ago, hardly a single thing mentioned above was or had ANY political concerns, and now, they're all political, and rarely are the political concerns going to bring about wise or prudent outcomes. This has been pushed upon us, by interests not in our favor, and those interests are not going away, nor are they moderating in the slightest. In fact, they are intent upon making MUCH more of our businesses and lives political. Yes, there are simple dollar value equations to some aspects of employer based health care, but some of it's purely political now.Any discussion of bandwidth management and application prioritization necessitates a weighing and ultimately making judgments about political things. Even arguments over what the politics actually means and how far it intends to reach and how much it legally CAN reach. Which ultimately brings us to the point where we discuss the topic of health care the same way we discuss customers who use the CD tray as a coffee cup holder, or expect us to do miracles, on a budget of dander and fluff - and that discussion is by necessity as much political as moral, logical, ethical. So you want us to NOT express our opinions on the nature of the political intrusions into our business.Might as well say that we can't express opinion about cranky customers, or which operating system is best on SBC's or how to manage a network. By necessity, these things are all relevant, as are our opinions of them. But so, too, the political aspects of our business, must be at least some what legitimate to discuss, lest we as a group by default follow a political course with no discussion or even consideration to where that leads us. It would be reasonable and proper to ask to keep such discussions relevant and topically accurate, and to try to keep this from degenerating into a political flame war. More importantly, it is necessary that respect be given to those who don't agree with your opinion, and that the there is only one default and acceptable opinion - that which is politically correct and I see that happen in a lot of places these days. And usually, that opinion and default position is utterly indefensible, but is never challenged, due to the powers that be preventing dissent. I would prefer that our discussions were not about politics. But they have to be, since politics has invited itself into darn near every aspect of our business.I'd say there's a powerful lesson there... but that would be ideological, huh. Sigh. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Rick, Can we nip this in the butt right now? The discussion was to see if it was feasible for WISPA to look at a group rate for health care, it is now evolving into a political discussion. Political discussions usually degrade into undesirable threads which make people mad and ultimately cause one or more to ask to be unsubscribed from the Members list. We consider that a sad loss because they won't get the benefit of the many discussions we have that have to do with being a WISP just because someone wanted to spread their own political views. We are not an advocacy for political causes other than for more spectrum and better rules for WISP's. You obviously wanted to spread your views all across WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] net neutrality, there may be hope yet...
Do you mean by bandwidth, the number of bytes moved, or the maximum velocity at which they can move?In the question below, that is. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] net neutrality, there may be hope yet... Why would customers installing file servers cause you a problem if you limited their throughput to the Terms and Conditions of their contract where you would specify the amount of bandwidth that you were supplying them and limiting them to? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] USF Reform Bill Introduced - The most compelling reason todocument and map your network coverage ever
Great, they want to tax us now. Nothing like getting kicked in the head.Tax the little guy to subsidize the big one.What a wonderful plan. This is worse than NOTHING. + Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Brian Webster Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:37 AM To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' ; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] USF Reform Bill Introduced - The most compelling reason todocument and map your network coverage ever Steve Coran just posted the message below to the WISPA FCC committee list. I took particular note to the following statement: - would reduce or deny support to wireline incumbents in areas where at least 75% of households can receive voice and broadband from a competitive provider that does not receive support Now the way I read the above statement is that if a WISP covers 75% of a current USF recipients service area, there will no longer be eligibility to receive USF funds. Remember if they have broadband they also have access to many VOIP providers even if you do not provide VOIP services. Vonage and Skype come to mind, not to mention cellular coverage. This would be a huge factor in leveling the playing field for WISP's in rural markets! I cannot see a more compelling reason to document and map your networks than this. Not only will it prevent yet another subsidized competitor from coming in to your service area, but it will also erode funding for any Telco who currently receives USF in your markets. This would bring wireless as a delivery method to the forefront because there are then no artificial revenue streams subsidizing the cost to deliver last mile service. We all know that wireless has the least cost per household passed in low density markets. There are many ways to document and map your coverage areas. First and foremost though is that you should file the Form 477 as required. Next one should map their network with an accurate service area where you would confidently offer service. This can be done many ways (including paying me to do it). This also shows a very important reason to be participating in your state broadband mapping efforts. I would expect that those state maps will become one of the major verification sources to establish the 75% coverage. The FCC 477 database will probably become another verification source. If you are listed in both of them it would be very hard for someone to say you don't exist and don't offer coverage in their areas. One of the downsides to this bill is that all broadband providers will be required to contribute to the fund. My gut feeling though is that if WISP's were accurately mapped and documented it would show so much less of the US is unserved by broadband and thus the required funding through USF to get it there will be much less. Brian -- Last week, Reps. Boucher (D-VA) and Terry (R-NE) introduced legislation that would reform the Universal Service Fund. The Press Release, Overview, Section by Section summary and text of the bill are available at this link: http://www.boucher.house.gov/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1579Itemid=122 I have not read these documents, but plan to do so soon. A few highlights that the trade press has noted: - would reduce or deny support to wireline incumbents in areas where at least 75% of households can receive voice and broadband from a competitive provider that does not receive support - FCC would create cost model that includes broadband in figuring support models - competitive bidding among wireless carriers for USF support - no more than two wireless CETCs could get support in the same area - carriers would have 5 years to provide broadband throughout their service areas, or would lose support - all broadband providers would pay into USF to expand contribution base - FCC to decide appropriate speed for broadband Rep. Boucher has said that the bill is on his front burner and that he wants to get the legislation passed this Fall. Please feel free to comment on-list AFTER you've reviewed the documents so that you can promote education of the WISPA membership and help shape whatever position WISPA may wish to take as the bill works its way through Congress. Thanks. Stephen E. Coran Rini Coran, PC 1140 19th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, D.C. 20036 202.463.4310 - voice 202.669.3288 - cell 202.296.2014 - fax sco...@rinicoran.com - e-mail www.rinicoran.com www.telecommunicationslaw.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] USF Reform Bill Introduced - The most compelling reasonto document and map your network coverage ever
How can this be good?IT IS A PER-CUSTOMER TAX ON OUR SERVICE AND GAURANTEED TO NEVER HELP SMALL PROVIDERS. Cripes, this is good? There's ONE good plan. USF go byebye. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: St. Louis Broadband Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:59 AM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com ; 'WISPA General List' ; memb...@wispa.org ; motor...@afmug.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] USF Reform Bill Introduced - The most compelling reasonto document and map your network coverage ever - would reduce or deny support to wireline incumbents in areas where at least 75% of households can receive voice and broadband from a competitive provider that does not receive support Ø Now the way I read the above statement is that if a WISP covers 75% of a current USF recipients service area, there will no longer be eligibility to receive USF funds. Remember if they have broadband they also have access to many VOIP providers even if you do not provide VOIP services. Vonage and Skype come to mind, not to mention cellular coverage. This would be a huge factor in leveling the playing field for WISP's in rural markets! That is the way I see it too! Victoria Proffer www.ShowMeBroadband.com www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:37 AM To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List'; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] USF Reform Bill Introduced - The most compelling reason to document and map your network coverage ever Importance: High Steve Coran just posted the message below to the WISPA FCC committee list. I took particular note to the following statement: - would reduce or deny support to wireline incumbents in areas where at least 75% of households can receive voice and broadband from a competitive provider that does not receive support Now the way I read the above statement is that if a WISP covers 75% of a current USF recipients service area, there will no longer be eligibility to receive USF funds. Remember if they have broadband they also have access to many VOIP providers even if you do not provide VOIP services. Vonage and Skype come to mind, not to mention cellular coverage. This would be a huge factor in leveling the playing field for WISP's in rural markets! I cannot see a more compelling reason to document and map your networks than this. Not only will it prevent yet another subsidized competitor from coming in to your service area, but it will also erode funding for any Telco who currently receives USF in your markets. This would bring wireless as a delivery method to the forefront because there are then no artificial revenue streams subsidizing the cost to deliver last mile service. We all know that wireless has the least cost per household passed in low density markets. There are many ways to document and map your coverage areas. First and foremost though is that you should file the Form 477 as required. Next one should map their network with an accurate service area where you would confidently offer service. This can be done many ways (including paying me to do it). This also shows a very important reason to be participating in your state broadband mapping efforts. I would expect that those state maps will become one of the major verification sources to establish the 75% coverage. The FCC 477 database will probably become another verification source. If you are listed in both of them it would be very hard for someone to say you don't exist and don't offer coverage in their areas. One of the downsides to this bill is that all broadband providers will be required to contribute to the fund. My gut feeling though is that if WISP's were accurately mapped and documented it would show so much less of the US is unserved by broadband and thus the required funding through USF to get it there will be much less. Brian -- Last week, Reps. Boucher (D-VA) and Terry (R-NE) introduced legislation that would reform the Universal Service Fund. The Press Release, Overview, Section by Section summary and text of the bill are available at this link: http://www.boucher.house.gov/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1579Itemid=122 I have not read these documents, but plan to do so soon. A few highlights that the trade press has noted: - would reduce or deny support to wireline incumbents in areas where at least 75% of households can receive voice and broadband from a competitive provider that does not receive support - FCC would create cost model that includes broadband in figuring support models - competitive bidding among wireless carriers for USF support - no more than two wireless CETCs could get support in the same area - carriers
Re: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says
Let's see... the Administration continues to implement wildly absurd and destructive policies, continues a mad dash desperate attempt to bankrupt the country with spending so insane it boggles the mind, continues to take over industries with regulatory legislation that makes less sense than chewing off your own fingers, continues to threaten to regulate ISP's like telephone companies, acts at the speed of a hesitant glacier at doing anything like opening up spectrum that normal (read, not possessing mega millions or billions of dollars) businesses can use... And they're wondering why the prospects for deployment seem bleak. How does one grab these people by the collar, shake them awake, and introduce them to reality? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says Yet, another push for broadband from the FCC: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/20/fcc.broadband.access/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Rural Telco in Washington Gets $17,763 per line
If you did, how would you sleep at night, knowing you're ripping off money for nuttin? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rural Telco in Washington Gets $17,763 per line That was my question. I would love to find a way to get $300K to build a number of towers around - and then a few thousand per subscriber per year to give them VOIP and Internet... - but then again I guess we all would Something however for us to use perhaps as Fodder to show why we should - when we can service so many more. On Jul 12, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Jack Unger wrote: WISPs get a share of the USF funds that will be redirected to broadband? Noodle me that... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Rural Telco in Washington Gets $17,763 per line
I dunno what it is about my personality, but I really, REALLY hate collecting money.I hate asking for it.I hate setting prices. I always look at it as if I were the customer, and what would things be like if it were ME paying the bill.Maybe that's the wrong attitude, because honestly, it tends to make me undercharge.Objectively, you have to set a 'what your time is worth' value and stick to it.But when you do that, often you find that your bill is absurdly expensive. like a $250 bill for fixing some guy's computer. A computer that's not worth 300 bucks. I take those in from time to time, and work on them ONLY when I have free time. And the bill is small. Still, I think sometimes that's not quite right either, so how do you choose to do what you do? Conscience has to guide, but you also have to be honest and you can't undercharge and stay in business, either. How do y'all do it? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:52 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rural Telco in Washington Gets $17,763 per line You beat me to it Mark. In the end, history will show that the free government money attitude is what was at the root of our country's downfall. Most WISP's are built on independance. We should fight against the use of our tax dollars for all these wasteful programs. I think all other utilities should be made to stand on their own as well. What better way to show that it works than by our own example? On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:14 AM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: If you did, how would you sleep at night, knowing you're ripping off money for nuttin? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rural Telco in Washington Gets $17,763 per line That was my question. I would love to find a way to get $300K to build a number of towers around - and then a few thousand per subscriber per year to give them VOIP and Internet... - but then again I guess we all would Something however for us to use perhaps as Fodder to show why we should - when we can service so many more. On Jul 12, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Jack Unger wrote: WISPs get a share of the USF funds that will be redirected to broadband? Noodle me that... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] yet another WiMAX vs LTE article
Xg's product is stated to allow small operators to offer a cellular like service, using the 900 spectrum.They say they can deal with crowded spectrum, and it's designed for low density population. What it amounts to is an IP mobile network, using portable VOIP phones. It is interesting, but I have my doubts as to it's viability market-wise. If it were more commodity priced, we (WISP's) might get interested and take it on. I'd LOVE to have my own 900 mhz based voip phone network. The range is considered to be quite large in rural and unobstructed areas, farther than WiMax stuff.Who knows. What I do know, is that Xg started with a bunch of UWB stuff and made a lot of really wild claims, and then suddenly changed direction to this. It SEEMS whole, and it does seem like they've built something serious. I just don't know if it's really a viable operation. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:04 AM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] yet another WiMAX vs LTE article At 7/1/2010 10:20 AM, awrote: It would be interesting to see this So far the only folks who have been successful with beamforming products (off the shelf easily available) in the 802.11n have been the Ruckus Wireless Folks. They had been sticking to indoor units because of their business relationships with the Outdoor beam forming folks like Wavion and Gonetworks both of them built nice outdoor units aimed towards Muni Wireless..but only do 802.11a/b/g no N to the best of my knowledge. Ruckus is slowly venturing out into the outdoor radios market place. Their outdoor products look somewhat interesting. They claim 14 dB gain from beamforming which, with their 22 dBm power, puts them right at the legal PtMP limit. (No doubt not a coincidence!) Anybody here played with them? I wonder if the beamforming is smart enough (dynamic) to deal with tropo ducting, especially over water. E.g., the target is at 20 degrees bearing, but an inversion is diverting the signal away, so maybe pointing at 40 degrees will get through better at the moment. BTW their web site is demented! I use NoScript. When I do NOT allow scripts from them, I can see the whole product page, with the specs. When I allow scripts, it essentially puts up a different, much shorter page, the idiotarian version. In Chrome, the same thing happens if you just turn on or off Javascript support. Meanwhile... Ubiqiti is doing something very interesting... they are coming up with 802.11n based radios with MIMO antennas for 3.65mhz and 900mhz it will be very interesting to see how these perform. I wonder if their low-cost hardware will support beamforming, or just muxing (high speed MIMO). Beamforming takes a lot more software. The only other folks who claim to be doing some wonderful stuff with 900mhx are the XgTechnology folks... but you decide if they are for real :-) XG made some Extraordinary Claims in their startup phase. The company's BoD is all financiers, no techies. They have raised a lot of cash and have no products. Hmmm... But their white paper describes something rather more ordinary. It is a 1.3 Mbps carrier in a 1.44 MHz channel. Yawn. The only secret sauce is a better scheduler than WiMAX, if you're mainly interested in CBR channels like phone calls. I had a long talk yesterday with a vendor I won't name... he made extraordinary claims too, but when I put on my hard-core techie act and started throwing stuff back at him, he backed down fast, and his claims became more ordinary, and frankly behind the market. There are companies designed to sell product to users, and companies designed to sell stock to speculators... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/1/2010 9:57 AM, Fred Goldstein wrote: I wonder how WiMAX would work on 900 MHz. Beamforming base antennas would be rather large, but I could see a market, especially if it nulled out interference. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
[WISPA] Airmax speed
I put up a temporary install of a UBNT rocket / sector combination, and it's at one of my regular AP spots, it sees quite a bit of noise. using a nanobridge as a cpe, and with only one other client online... I was able, at 4 miles, to get an internal speed test of 120mbit.This is using 40 mhz channel. It isn't ideal' conditions, in fact, far from it, as the client end was looking past an obstruction, in the form of foliage in the fresnel zone, and the other end sees noise on what unused rf space there is around the -85 to -90 range. I was able, using a 20 mhz channel, to get over 60 mbit throughput. didn't realize until later I was partially sharing the spectrum with another ap on the site. Impressive.Not so impressive is that at 8.2 miles, with the client just peeking over the rooftop of the next door house, and through a tiny gap in trees a block away, throughput is about 8-12 down and 1-5 up, varies at times. 20 mhz channel. the internal speed test is used mostly for the speed tests at the short client, as I didn't have a fast enough machine to shove that much data, and using speedtest.net tests for the client at 8.2 miles. speed tests tended to raise the ping times from 1-6 ms to 8 to 20 ms, with apparently some random noise caused long pings now and then. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
I've never been to any WISP or ISP con of any kind. Wanted to, but never had the dough to go. First, St Louis? Why? Go to Las Vegas and do it in early November. There's a cheap way to get to Vegas from anywhere in the US, especially at that time of the year. Heck, round trip from the pacific northwest is under 200 bucks. Also from most larger places in most states there's something cheap to Vegas. Rooms are cheap, travels's cheap, rental cars are $25 a day or less. St Louis is never going to be an option. Orlando, maybe - at least I own a timeshare there. Vegas, maybe.You want people to come? Go some place it doesn't cost an arm and leg to get to, stay at, or get home. Just my mumblings on a late Sunday evening. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:28 PM To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? Members and WISP followers, We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st and 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we have received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our Regional Meeting. One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the first stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of our attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. Louis. This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this to be the case. My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is really the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this meeting or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, money and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions. Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. We are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to get there, we need to start preparing now. As you may or may not know, we do have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st. It would be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees. This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis. The Renaissance actually lowered its room rate surprisingly to $79 per night and threw in free internet, parking and shuttle. These concessions are saving our participants nearly $60 from the previous hotel. The catering and AV budgets alone exceed the registration fees we are charging for members. Therefore, I ask that everyone describe your intentions for attending or not intending and send a brief description why. If it is summer vacation, that is fine, that is a risk we took when choosing these dates. If it is summer activities such as 4H fairs, baseball tournaments, or whatever, just let me know. If it is the weather and damage has not allowed you to book because of excessive repair bills, that is also fine. I am just trying to get a feel on the pulse of the industry as we analyze the success of this meeting and possibly plan the next one. If there are other challenges you wish to discuss, let me know. I would rather the Board be aware so that we can formulate policy and programs to alleviate these concerns as we move forward. Respectfully, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] It only feels like Friday
Anyone with 2 cents worth of common sense could have told them the outcome. The reason most poor are poor in developed nations is because of the poor quality of decisions.Children of families that exhibit this behavior merely continue it.Give them the additional means of wasting more time and making even worse decisions... and they will.What's worse, is that if you GIVE someone this stuff, they don't even value it enough to work for it, meaning they develop an even worse sense of entitlement to be given things and ergo, make even worse decisions. But, like I said, it didn't need any professors and millions to study it. All they needed to do is ask a few parents of successful kids (and even unsuccessful kids) what lack of parenting does and what it results in, and the outcome was easily predicted without any need for studies.Too bad the intellectuals can't seem to grasp such common sense stuff. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jeromie Reeves jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:21 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] It only feels like Friday Interesting read of the short version. Is universal net access good or bad or should we be spending that money on other things, like better parent education? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/21/digital_divide_worsened_by_tech/ From the linked page for the research paper You should expect a free download if you are a subscriber, a corporate associate of the NBER, a journalist, an employee of the U.S. federal government with a .GOV domain name, or a resident of nearly any developing country or transition economy. ...What exactly, is out economy if not transitional? Jeromie WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] What, no response to the FCC vote today?
This may be our last chance to survive in this business. I know what my position is, and it should be clear to most of you. However, the FCC needs to hear from the smaller operators, and from small business saying Hands off! We can't afford your wishes. And they need to hear it from the providers and the customers of those providers. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking to Sell..........
Yessir. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking to Sell.. Are you talking 5Ghz? On 6/15/10, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: I'm real happy with the 23 db panels from Arc Wireless. Slightly better RSSI than a 25 db PacW grid. Not expensive, but the mounts are kinda hokey. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
The nearest possible clients to this site are 4 miles, and most are at 10 to 20 miles. Nope, never had any real interference issues, and I'm definitely not over EIRP limits. I got my space planted first, and everyone else moved around me. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 8:52 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind? What that really means is that you are likely running far too large of an antenna. You're also going to find yourself interfering with your own network far more than is healthy with things that run this way! marlon - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:16 PM Subject: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind? This evening I was at one of my access points... one that has several backhauls and various 2.4 and 5 ghz ap's at it. After I was done with my few minutes of doing things, I wanted to make sure I had not physically disconnected or accidentally unhooked anything (messing with the batteries, checking water levels, etc).I pulled out a netbook. Acer Aspire One to be precise, running windows xp, using the normal wifi card it came with. I fired it up (it is set to any so it simply associates to the access points that are open at home, work, etc), and after I was done, noted it said it was connected, at which point I opened google on the browser to confirm connectivity. Google popped up, meaning things were connected, and then I decided to run a speed test. I got about 30KB/s speed, which is like painfully slow. I was standing outside, with the netbook sitting on the hood of my truck. So, I decided to see what it was associated to, and it was another access point ... 11 MILES AWAY! I confirmed it by the SSID and by the ip dhcp had assigned, as belonging to the ap 11 miles distant. It has no external antenna, just the one the factory built into the netbook. I have detected, using netstumbler and the internal antenna on my laptop (dell C610 and CM9 installed) access points over 24 miles away before, but this is the longest, by far, I have been able to get a real connection, dhcp assignment, and transfer data. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
