Re: [WSG] Default style declaration?
On 14 Jan 2011, at 18:40, Richard R. Hill wrote: Yet, the W3C validation tolls never flag a missing default CSS language declaration as an issue when validation XHTML. The W3C Validation Service is a generic SGML/XML validator, not an HTML conformance checker. It doesn't check for things that are not expressed in the DTD (which this isn't, and couldn't be). Should we make sure our pages declare the default CSS type as we do for Javascript? If you use style attributes (which you shouldn't) or fiddle the style.* properties with JavaScript (which you shouldn't unless you need to deal with a wide range of values, such as when you are animating), then the spec requires that you do so. (Although this will, IIRC, change for (X)HTML 5). Like: META http-equiv=Content-Style-Type content=text/css meta http-equiv=Content-Style-Type content=text/css / since you said XHTML. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] list style with inline image issue
Update: IE6 needs vertical-align:text-top in order for the image aligns with text whereas IE7 requires extra vertical-align:top declares in the LI. IE8 doesn't need any of these so I guess IE9 will be the same which I don't have a way to test as the beta version wiped out my IE8 so I can't install it. After I had the IE9 beta installed, the previously standalone working version of IE9 Preview no longer can be installed. I updated the test page just in case anyone wants to see it. tee http://lotusseedsdesign.com/css-test/list-style.html On Oct 14, 2010, at 7:07 PM, tee wrote: Tim, Thanks! This won't work very well though because not all LIs have image and I can't foresee which one will not have. Your example gave me an idea to remove the float, and it seems to be working. See the test page again! vertical-align:top makes the image aligns with the text. t *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] list style with inline image issue
Tee,
Just a quick test I came up with this:
li {
padding-bottom: 5px;
clear: both;
list-style-type: disc;
padding-left: 75px;
margin-bottom: 50px;
position: relative;
}
li img {
position: absolute;
top: 0; left: 0;
border:1px solid red;
}
Instead of floating your image, position it in the LI. With list-style
outside or no list-style this worked in Chrome, Opera, Firefox and IE
8. I just quickly hacked the rest of the numbers to get it to work.
Tim W.
(By the way, you have class=outside on your last list item in the
HTML and I don't think you meant to)
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 7:43 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
In this page:
http://lotusseedsdesign.com/css-test/list-style.html
Only Firefox got it right. Have not checked in IE yet.
li {padding-bottom: 5px;clear: both;list-style-type: disc;margin-left: 25px;}
li img {float: left;margin-right:10px;margin-bottom: 10px;border:0}
li.inside{list-style-position: inside}
li.outside{list-style-position: outside}
Is there a workaround?
tee
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Re: [WSG] list style with inline image issue
Tim,
Thanks! This won't work very well though because not all LIs have image and I
can't foresee which one will not have.
Your example gave me an idea to remove the float, and it seems to be working.
See the test page again!
vertical-align:top makes the image aligns with the text.
tee
On Oct 14, 2010, at 6:16 PM, Tim White wrote:
Tee,
Just a quick test I came up with this:
li {
padding-bottom: 5px;
clear: both;
list-style-type: disc;
padding-left: 75px;
margin-bottom: 50px;
position: relative;
}
li img {
position: absolute;
top: 0; left: 0;
border:1px solid red;
}
Instead of floating your image, position it in the LI. With list-style
outside or no list-style this worked in Chrome, Opera, Firefox and IE
8. I just quickly hacked the rest of the numbers to get it to work.
Tim W.
(By the way, you have class=outside on your last list item in the
HTML and I don't think you meant to)
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 7:43 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
In this page:
http://lotusseedsdesign.com/css-test/list-style.html
Only Firefox got it right. Have not checked in IE yet.
li {padding-bottom: 5px;clear: both;list-style-type: disc;margin-left: 25px;}
li img {float: left;margin-right:10px;margin-bottom: 10px;border:0}
li.inside{list-style-position: inside}
li.outside{list-style-position: outside}
Is there a workaround?
tee
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Re: [WSG] content style type
I think this page can help you: http://vancouver-webpages.com/META/metatags.detail.html Best Regards, ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸ °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes `°º¤ø,¸¸, http://sapiensdc.com.br | http://eopen.com.br Desenvolvedor Web - Padrões W3C, Drupal, Acessibilidade ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` Nosce te ipsum...¸,ø¤º°``°º¤ø,¸¸, On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 08:58, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: meta http-equiv=Content-Style-Type content=text/css/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] content style type
I've personally never had to use that Bob. There's an explanation here... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2025786/why-use-meta-tag-content-style-type-for-external-css But personally I dont feel it's at all necessary Ed On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 12:58 PM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: Sorry if this is obvious, but could someone explain to me the value of using: meta http-equiv=Content-Style-Type content=text/css/ In the head section of a page. I can't grasp: a) what exactly it does, b) what is 'missing' if it isn't there? etc. Please. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] content style type
Thanks Gentlemen - I thought so! Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Print style sheet
On 17 February 2010 03:42, c...@fagandesign.com.au wrote:
Hi all,
Just wondering about best practice, accessibility and practical
implementation of a print stylesheet.
I have been asked to place a different header image in my HTML templates
specifically for print (only shows when printed and replaces usual header).
I would like to know if this is deemed acceptable use of CSSAND if a
hard-coded image has to be downloaded on page load or page print??
eg.
div id=print-header style=display:none;
img src=img/elements/print-header.jpg alt=blah blah width=600
height=254 /
/div
div id=header
img src=img/elements/normal-header.jpg alt=blah blah width=800
height=300 /
/div
!-- PRINT STYLESHEET --
.print-header {display:block!important}
This duplication of content is unnecessary and would be rather
difficult to maintain in the long term.
.The issue has been dealt with in http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html..
Use one element id in a document for one element e.g.
div id=header
and then define it differently for different media as per examples in
that link.n
@media print {
#header { font-size: 10pt }
}
@media screen {
#header { font-size: 13px }
}
@media screen, print {
#header { line-height: 1.2 }
}
This method achieves independence of data (web page content) from
design/style (whether it is screen, print or other media type).
HTH
Lesley
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RE: [WSG] Print style sheet [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
You seem to be on the right track, Oliver.
Matthew's response regarding targeting media types is also helpful. One of the
implementations I've used before is described below.
Note that:
- The print-only version of the logo is the near-last element in the page. I
assume that someone will read all (or most) of the document before printing,
giving the browser time to download the print-only [hidden] inline image.
- Both images are requested at page load, not at page print
- Background image printing is unlikely to be enabled by default on a user's
browser, hence the use of inline images
- When printing, the screen version of the logo is entirely hidden, and the
print logo is positioned absolutely on the top left of the page.
- ContentWrapper is given a top margin related to the height of the printable
logo (preventing nasty overlaps)
- Both images are downloaded in the same page request.
- I do not regard this as a duplication of content - a print-optimised version
of a logo may have very different requirements from a screen-optimised version
of a logo.
- Similar approaches should work for other @media types
- CSS-less browsers will expose both versions of the logo - one at the top of
the page, one at the bottom (not a deal breaker, IMO).
Markup:
==
html
head
...
link type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=print href=print.css/
link type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=screen href=screen.css/
/head
...
img id=headerLogo ... /
div id=contentWrapper
...
/div
...
img id=printLogo height=80px width=120px .../
...
/body
/html
print.css
==
...
#printLogo {
position: absolute;
left: 0;
top: 0;
}
#headerLogo {
display: none;
}
screen.css
==
...
#printLogo {
display:none;
}
#contentWrapper {
margin-top: 80px;
}
Good luck!
- Gordon
I have been asked to place a different header image in my HTML templates
specifically for print (only shows when printed and replaces usual header).
I would like to know if this is deemed acceptable use of CSSAND if a
hard-coded image has to be downloaded on page load or page print??
eg.
div id=print-header style=display:none;
img src=img/elements/print-header.jpg alt=blah blah width=600
height=254 /
/div
div id=header
img src=img/elements/normal-header.jpg alt=blah blah width=800
height=300 /
/div
!-- PRINT STYLESHEET --
.print-header {display:block!important}
This duplication of content is unnecessary and would be rather
difficult to maintain in the long term.
.The issue has been dealt with in http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html..
Use one element id in a document for one element e.g.
div id=header
and then define it differently for different media as per examples in
that link.n
@media print {
#header { font-size: 10pt }
}
@media screen {
#header { font-size: 13px }
}
@media screen, print {
#header { line-height: 1.2 }
}
This method achieves independence of data (web page content) from
design/style (whether it is screen, print or other media type).
HTH
Lesley
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RE: [WSG] web style guide
Lucien wrote: Hi there, I need to write a web style guide for our web site. Does anyone know of any good examples I could draw inspiration from? You'll find a lot of government guides online, such as http://webpublishing.agimo.gov.au/ or http://www.intact.act.gov.au/Website_Development_Mgt_Standard.doc Kerry --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] web style guide
Hi Lucien, I don't have any style guides of my own to share, but I have two links you may want to review: A List Apart: Writing an interface style guidehttp://www.alistapart.com/articles/writingainterfacestyleguide/( http://www.alistapart.com/articles/writingainterfacestyleguide/) Government of Canada's Common Look and Feel for the Internethttp://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp( http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp) Kris On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:59 PM, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, I need to write a web style guide for our web site. Does anyone know of any good examples I could draw inspiration from? We already have our style sheets etc working, but need to have some kind of documentation we can hand to third party or contract developers so they can work to our standards. Thanks, Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] web style guide
And a couple more links: http://www.pebbleroad.com/articles/view/Creating-Maintaining-a-Web-Style-Guide/ http://delicious.com/maish/styleguide 2009/12/3 kris wright kcwri...@gmail.com: Hi Lucien, I don't have any style guides of my own to share, but I have two links you may want to review: A List Apart: Writing an interface style guide (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/writingainterfacestyleguide/) Government of Canada's Common Look and Feel for the Internet (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp) Kris On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:59 PM, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, I need to write a web style guide for our web site. Does anyone know of any good examples I could draw inspiration from? We already have our style sheets etc working, but need to have some kind of documentation we can hand to third party or contract developers so they can work to our standards. Thanks, Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Nick Cowie http://nickcowie.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] web style guide
Thanks everyone. Some great resources there. I have plenty to read now :) Lucien. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com wrote: And a couple more links: http://www.pebbleroad.com/articles/view/Creating-Maintaining-a-Web-Style-Guide/ http://delicious.com/maish/styleguide 2009/12/3 kris wright kcwri...@gmail.com: Hi Lucien, I don't have any style guides of my own to share, but I have two links you may want to review: A List Apart: Writing an interface style guide (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/writingainterfacestyleguide/) Government of Canada's Common Look and Feel for the Internet (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp) Kris On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:59 PM, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, I need to write a web style guide for our web site. Does anyone know of any good examples I could draw inspiration from? We already have our style sheets etc working, but need to have some kind of documentation we can hand to third party or contract developers so they can work to our standards. Thanks, Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Nick Cowie http://nickcowie.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Sent from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] web style guide
Just some recent blog posts on style guide to add to your reading list: http://www.purecaffeine.com/2009/11/style-guides-and-ui-implementation/ http://www.purecaffeine.com/2009/11/style-guides-and-ui-implementation-part-2/ Cheers, Nathanael Boehm Web user interaction designer user experience · social experience · social media · user interface development · usability · accessibility Imagine Innovation · KATA Professional · UXnet Canberra · OpenAustralia · BarCampCanberra Australian Social Innovation eXchange (ASIX) Canberra www.purecaffeine.com http://www.purecaffeine.com/about/ Canberra, Australia 0409 288 464 Latest UX blog post: Style guides and UI implementation: Part 2http://bit.ly/68H1ZR RSVP http://bit.ly/bHic2 for BarCampCanberra 2010, in mid-February On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:35 PM, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks everyone. Some great resources there. I have plenty to read now :) Lucien. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com wrote: And a couple more links: http://www.pebbleroad.com/articles/view/Creating-Maintaining-a-Web-Style-Guide/ http://delicious.com/maish/styleguide 2009/12/3 kris wright kcwri...@gmail.com: Hi Lucien, I don't have any style guides of my own to share, but I have two links you may want to review: A List Apart: Writing an interface style guide (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/writingainterfacestyleguide/) Government of Canada's Common Look and Feel for the Internet (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp) Kris On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:59 PM, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, I need to write a web style guide for our web site. Does anyone know of any good examples I could draw inspiration from? We already have our style sheets etc working, but need to have some kind of documentation we can hand to third party or contract developers so they can work to our standards. Thanks, Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Nick Cowie http://nickcowie.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Sent from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] list-style can't work with inline and float in IE?
2008/12/13 tee weblis...@gmail.com
I have two list items that must display horizontally. Wanting to use
list-style instead of background image, but in IE 6 and 7, the circle style
refuses to show up even I adjusted padding left (or margin).
ul.add-to li{ padding: 5px 10px 5px 0;list-style-type: circle;font-size:
.85em;float: left;color: #d9d49d;margin-right: 5px;}
Using display:inline also of no use.
If I add a 'float:none' in the CC for IE, than it works.
Generally I just use background image and be done with it ;) But in your
scenario have you tried setting display: inline-block for IE? Worth a try.
cheers,
Ben
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Re: [WSG] list-style can't work with inline and float in IE?
On Dec 13, 2008, at 2:28 AM, Ben Buchanan wrote:
2008/12/13 tee weblis...@gmail.com
I have two list items that must display horizontally. Wanting to
use list-style instead of background image, but in IE 6 and 7, the
circle style refuses to show up even I adjusted padding left (or
margin).
ul.add-to li{ padding: 5px 10px 5px 0;list-style-type: circle;font-
size: .85em;float: left;color: #d9d49d;margin-right: 5px;}
Using display:inline also of no use.
If I add a 'float:none' in the CC for IE, than it works.
Generally I just use background image and be done with it ;) But in
your scenario have you tried setting display: inline-block for IE?
Worth a try.
Thanks Ben, tried that already. Doesn't work.
The circle is served as a seperator, a tiny visual detail I try to
perfect, but don't think it deserves a background image :)
I think I am going to use a border left for IE instead.
tee
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RE: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Maben Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 4:11 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:03 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Ive had to work on macs in the past I wouldnt wish them on my enemy sorry Michael :P And the relevance of this comment to the subject at hand, or web standards in general, is what exactly? On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 04:31:57 +1000, David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Andrew . Seriously We are talking about our preferences for IDEs the group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards while its something we deal with a lot, its not the end all and be all Sheesh lighten up a little . *shakes his head* Yes. But. Answers to what's your favorite editor are as enlightening as answers to what's your favorite car? Not a fruitful line of discourse, methinks. Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
On 1 Aug 2008, at 16:22, Michael Horowitz wrote:
but this does not
.small {
font-size:8x;
}
x isn't a unit.
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
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Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Interesting this works
select style= font-size: 8px name=cruiseline
but this does not
select class=small name=month
.small {
font-size:8x;
}
8x is a typo?
--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Lightshow Magic
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Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
Michael Horowitz wrote:
Interesting this works
select style= font-size: 8px name=cruiseline
but this does not
select class=small name=month
.small {
font-size:8x;
}
Interesting how? Typos usually /don't/ work, in my experience :-)
--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com
dream. code.
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RE: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
Come on everyone don't give Michael too hard a time, we ALL typo from time
to time and wonder why it won't work...
Its just part n parcel of the coding world...
David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel: 0434 728 267
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 1:47 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
Michael Horowitz wrote:
Interesting this works
select style= font-size: 8px name=cruiseline
but this does not
select class=small name=month
.small {
font-size:8x;
}
Interesting how? Typos usually /don't/ work, in my experience :-)
--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com
dream. code.
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Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Come on everyone don't give Michael too hard a time, we ALL typo from time to time and wonder why it won't work... Its just part n parcel of the coding world... True enough, but when something doesn't work running it through a validator (or even an intelligent editor) will frequently identify the issue(s). Validate early, validate often :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
I agree with you there however I have been known (usually when im half dead from coding too long) to look @ a misplaced space or + or whatever, and wonder why it wont work ... Anyway meh its all good. Speaking of intelligent editors... What do you all prefer?? Myself I am a Dreamweaver fan... :) David Fuller Developer magickweb Web:http://www.magick.com.au Tel: 0434 728 267 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 2:27 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Come on everyone don't give Michael too hard a time, we ALL typo from time to time and wonder why it won't work... Its just part n parcel of the coding world... True enough, but when something doesn't work running it through a validator (or even an intelligent editor) will frequently identify the issue(s). Validate early, validate often :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
I use Bluefish under Linux, my every day system. In Windows, I use phpDesigner 2008. Gregorio Espadas http://espadas.com.mx On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:36 AM, David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Speaking of intelligent editors... What do you all prefer?? Myself I am a Dreamweaver fan... :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
I'm not sure if this has already been addressed (the original subject of the email), but have you tried using something like firebug in firefox and tracing the css hierarchy? As for editors Aptana is my editor of choice for any open source web project (http://www.aptana.com/). It even does Ruby on Rails if you want to push your projects that direction. Crimson Editor was an excellent text editor, but I think its a bit old, and has moved to the Emerald Editor, but I haven't used the new version. If you are an ASP fan but do the occasional PHP work then the new Expression Studio would be a good choice, of course since it's an MS product you'll have to pay for it. On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Gregorio Espadas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I use Bluefish under Linux, my every day system. In Windows, I use phpDesigner 2008. Gregorio Espadas http://espadas.com.mx On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:36 AM, David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Speaking of intelligent editors... What do you all prefer?? Myself I am a Dreamweaver fan... :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Speaking of intelligent editors... What do you all prefer?? This is probably veering OT, but I use jEdit -- feature-rich, easily extensible, runs on anything with a JVM. And free/open source :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
Ive played with jEdit, while it was nice I wasn't a huge fan - I know I know I know paying for an IDE is bad when you have so many free and open source solutions, but I do love my Dreamweaver. Have used it since version 2... David Fuller Developer magickweb Web:http://www.magick.com.au Tel: 0434 728 267 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:31 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Speaking of intelligent editors... What do you all prefer?? This is probably veering OT, but I use jEdit -- feature-rich, easily extensible, runs on anything with a JVM. And free/open source :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
If you are on a mac, Textmate is the best choice. -- Michael Turnwall for all your web code needs turnwall.net David Fuller - magickweb wrote: I agree with you there however I have been known (usually when im half dead from coding too long) to look @ a misplaced space or + or whatever, and wonder why it wont work ... Anyway meh its all good. Speaking of intelligent editors... What do you all prefer?? Myself I am a Dreamweaver fan... :) David Fuller Developer magickweb Web:http://www.magick.com.au Tel: 0434 728 267 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 2:27 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Come on everyone don't give Michael too hard a time, we ALL typo from time to time and wonder why it won't work... Its just part n parcel of the coding world... True enough, but when something "doesn't work" running it through a validator (or even an intelligent editor) will frequently identify the issue(s). Validate early, validate often :-) -- Michael Turnwall for all your web code needs turnwall.net ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
Ive had to work on macs in the past - I wouldn't wish them on my enemy - sorry Michael :P David Fuller Developer magickweb Web: http://www.magick.com.au http://www.magick.com.au Tel: 0434 728 267 Email:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Turnwall Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:46 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not If you are on a mac, Textmate is the best choice. -- Michael Turnwall for all your web code needs turnwall.net David Fuller - magickweb wrote: I agree with you there however I have been known (usually when im half dead from coding too long) to look @ a misplaced space or + or whatever, and wonder why it wont work ... Anyway meh its all good. Speaking of intelligent editors... What do you all prefer?? Myself I am a Dreamweaver fan... :) David Fuller Developer magickweb Web:http://www.magick.com.au Tel: 0434 728 267 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 2:27 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Come on everyone don't give Michael too hard a time, we ALL typo from time to time and wonder why it won't work... Its just part n parcel of the coding world... True enough, but when something doesn't work running it through a validator (or even an intelligent editor) will frequently identify the issue(s). Validate early, validate often :-) -- Michael Turnwall for all your web code needs turnwall.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***image001.jpg
Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:03 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Ive had to work on macs in the past – I wouldn’t wish them on my enemy – sorry Michael :P And the relevance of this comment to the subject at hand, or web standards in general, is what exactly? Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
Andrew.. Seriously. We are talking about our preferences for IDE's the group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards - while its something we deal with a lot, its not the end all and be all. Sheesh lighten up a little.. *shakes his head* David Fuller Developer magickweb Web: http://www.magick.com.au http://www.magick.com.au Tel: 0434 728 267 Email:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Maben Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 4:11 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:03 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote: Ive had to work on macs in the past - I wouldn't wish them on my enemy - sorry Michael :P And the relevance of this comment to the subject at hand, or web standards in general, is what exactly? Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***image001.jpg
Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
I know typos kill me. Sorry about bothering people with that.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
David Dorward wrote:
On 1 Aug 2008, at 16:22, Michael Horowitz wrote:
but this does not
.small {
font-size:8x;
}
x isn't a unit.
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Re: [WSG] Hero Style Presentation
On 5 Feb 2008, at 09:43, Web Man Walking wrote: Hello I remember seeing a few years ago a presentation done (in HTML) about Web Standards. It had a whole load of Super hero / Roy Lichtenstein style graphics. Anyone have a link, I really would appreciate it? Is this what you mean? http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Hero Style Presentation
Hurrah! Thank you. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Dorward Sent: 05 February 2008 10:02 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Hero Style Presentation On 5 Feb 2008, at 09:43, Web Man Walking wrote: Hello I remember seeing a few years ago a presentation done (in HTML) about Web Standards. It had a whole load of Super hero / Roy Lichtenstein style graphics. Anyone have a link, I really would appreciate it? Is this what you mean? http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Print style sheets
Generally speaking, my advice would be to use print styles as part of the main stylesheet setup (possibly but not necessarily a separate CSS file) By tying your print-friendly styles to a script of any kind, you are forcing the user to find that link and be able to use it, in order to gain the benefit. It does depend a lot on what the site looks like to begin with, but try turning the question around, and asking yourself what the user would gain by being able to print the site exactly as it looks on the screen? Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lucien Stals Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:18 AM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] Print style sheets Hi all, I'd written a print style sheet for a site I'd done ( http://www.swin.edu.au/ads/ltshowcase/inspire/presentations.html ), but the feedback I got was that nobody knew it was there (unless they printed the page). So I hit google for some suggestions on how best to do this. This has lead to more confusion. One site I read suggested that print style sheets can confuse users when what comes out of the printer differs significantly from what they saw on the page. This is true in my case where I hide the navigation and some background images. I also change the font and justification to better suit print. So do people here think it's a good idea to have a print style sheet that differs from the screen style sheet? In the end, I used some javascript to allow users to switch between two style sheets on the screen. One is designed for the screen, the other designed for print. This way, if they print the page, they get what they see. What do people think about this approach. (If you are unclear from my description about how this works, just visit the page and toggle the print friendly view link near the top of the page). My approach has caused me a further problem: Because I used a link to trigger the script, clicks get added to the browsers history, when technically the user hasn't left the page. Any suggestions for how to get around this? Should I have used a select list? Regards, Lucien. -- Lucien Stals Multimedia/Web Developer Academic Development and Support Swinburne University of Technology PO Box 218 Hawthorn, 3122, Australia email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] telephone: +61 3 9214 4474 office: AD223 Swinburne University of Technology CRICOS Provider Code: 00111D NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. They may contain information that is privileged or protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, printing, copying or use is strictly prohibited. The University does not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments are secure and there is also a risk that it may be corrupted in transmission. It is your responsibility to check any attachments for viruses or defects before opening them. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us on +61 3 9214 8000 and delete it immediately from your system. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus, data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised amendment. Please consider the environment before printing this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Print style sheets
On 6/7/07, Lucien Stals [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'd written a print style sheet for a site I'd done ( http://www.swin.edu.au/ads/ltshowcase/inspire/presentations.html ), but the feedback I got was that nobody knew it was there (unless they printed the page). So I hit google for some suggestions on how best to do this. This has lead to more confusion. One site I read suggested that print style sheets can confuse users when what comes out of the printer differs significantly from what they saw on the page. This is true in my case where I hide the navigation and some background images. I also change the font and justification to better suit print. So do people here think it's a good idea to have a print style sheet that differs from the screen style sheet? Yes! In the end, I used some javascript to allow users to switch between two style sheets on the screen. One is designed for the screen, the other designed for print. This way, if they print the page, they get what they see. What do people think about this approach. (If you are unclear from my description about how this works, just visit the page and toggle the print friendly view link near the top of the page). I definitely think it is important to let users know that the result from printing the page will be different than what they see on screen, only because a lot of users are used to wasting all their ink printing web pages that do not have print stylesheets, and think this is the norm. Whether it's a matter of explaining the feature to users or showing it on-screen, it helps the users who don't know about it. My approach has caused me a further problem: Because I used a link to trigger the script, clicks get added to the browsers history, when technically the user hasn't left the page. Any suggestions for how to get around this? Should I have used a select list? Isn't this problem solved by putting return false; in the event handler? Or am I missing something? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] No style
On 31/01/2006, at 4:59 PM, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox wrote: Let's say I have my global style sheet where I style my ph1 etc. but on one page I have a div with id #editableArea I want that div to have no style applied that is defined in the style sheet, is that possible? You would have to undefine any styles applied to it - basically, there is no such thing as 'unstyled' in the sense you use it, you just have to unset everything that has been applied to it. The easiest way to do that, I think, would be to open the page in Firefox, open the DOM Inspector (Under 'Tools') and navigate down to the element of interest. The view 'computed styles' under the icon at the top left of the right hand pane, and examine what it has. You would have to change such things as colours, margins, font-size - everything listed there. Bear in mind that some things are set to 0, some to 'none' and some to 'normal' (Oh for some commonality!) HIH Lea -- Lea de Groot Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No style
On 1/31/06, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way to specify in CSS that a certain area is to have no style at all. All browsers have a default style sheet, and there's differences between the default styles in different browsers, so there's no such thing as 'no style'. The closest you'll get is to specify the same padding, margins, font etc as your most common browser displays when no author styles are specified. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.zombiecoder.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No style
Practically speaking, it's a good idea to reset font-size, padding and
margin on * at the start of your CSS file. This does help improve
consistancy somewhat.
* {
padding:0;
margin:0;
font-size:100.01%;
}
Then, obviously, you can style individual elements from that, and you
know what the default (base) is if you want to undefine styles on
specific elements.
On 2/1/06, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/31/06, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is there any way to specify in CSS that a certain area is to have no style
at all.
All browsers have a default style sheet, and there's differences
between the default styles in different browsers, so there's no such
thing as 'no style'. The closest you'll get is to specify the same
padding, margins, font etc as your most common browser displays when
no author styles are specified.
--
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.zombiecoder.com/
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RE: [WSG] No style
To be honest I don't care if it takes the style of the browser, I did not want it to take the other styles defined. I am thinking I will be using an iframe, which should do the trick. Kind regards, Taco Fleur - CEO Free Call 1800 032 982 or Mobile 0421 851 786 Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . * Web Design and Development * SMS Solutions, including developer API * Domain Registration, .COM for as low as fifteen dollars a year, .COM.AU for fifty dollars two years! * BlackBerryR Business Solutions www.OzBlackBerry.com * We endorse PayPal, accept payments online now! * Seamless Merchant integration -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kay Smoljak Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2006 1:33 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] No style On 1/31/06, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way to specify in CSS that a certain area is to have no style at all. All browsers have a default style sheet, and there's differences between the default styles in different browsers, so there's no such thing as 'no style'. The closest you'll get is to specify the same padding, margins, font etc as your most common browser displays when no author styles are specified. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.zombiecoder.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No style
On 31/01/06, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is there any way to
specify in CSS that a certain area is to have no style at
all.
Let's say I have my
global style sheet where I style my ph1 etc. but on one page I
have a div with id #editableArea
I want that div to
have no style applied that is defined in the style sheet, is that
possible?
One possible solution would be not so much to have 'no style' but to
have a blanket basic style in that div. So for example, you might do
something like:
#editableArea * {
font-size: 1em;
margin: 0;
padding: 3px;
}
That would make all of the content of that div, regardless of what it
was (a p, a heading, no element, etc) adopt those same rules. It would
give you uniformity across the contents which is, I believe, what
you're looking for.
Cheers,
Seona.
Re: [WSG] No style
That's still going to be 1em of whatever 1em becomes by the time you
get down to #editableArea (i.e. 1em of (x) on #editableArea of (y) on
#body of (z) on #html), isn't it?
On 2/1/06, Seona Bellamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One possible solution would be not so much to have 'no style' but to have a
blanket basic style in that div. So for example, you might do something
like:
#editableArea * {
font-size: 1em;
margin: 0;
padding: 3px;
}
That would make all of the content of that div, regardless of what it was
(a p, a heading, no element, etc) adopt those same rules. It would give you
uniformity across the contents which is, I believe, what you're looking for.
Cheers,
Seona.
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Re: [WSG] No style
On 01/02/06, Joshua Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's still going to be 1em of whatever 1em becomes by the time youget down to #editableArea (i.e. 1em of (x) on #editableArea of (y) on#body of (z) on #html), isn't it? Hmm... good point. Might need some tweaking, but I'm not sure how.
Re: [WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu
Thank you both very much! I did set the list-style-image as a background and it worked like a charm. The only difference was instead of setting the positioning using left center, I used 0 40%, which placed the image pefectly inline with the text. I'll take a look at the artile cited below, and again many thanks! Warm regards, Mario In fact, you could put the background image in the anchor to achieve a rollover affect by adjusting the background position, or changing the the image. Here's a good article on single background images and positioning: http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/05/navigation_matr.php kind regards Terrence Wood. On 7 Aug 2005, at 11:23 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Goodevening All, I have a slight problem. I can't seem to get the list-style-image to work, which is part of a unordered list set to display inline in a horizonal menu bar. On 7 Aug 2005, at 1:16 PM, russ - maxdesign wrote: I agree with Patrick - I'd use background-image instead of list-style-image as you have far more control over the placement of the image using the background-position property. Russ Alternatively, you could try and add left-hand padding and place the star as a non-repeating background image ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu
I agree with Patrick - I'd use background-image instead of list-style-image as you have far more control over the placement of the image using the background-position property. Russ Alternatively, you could try and add left-hand padding and place the star as a non-repeating background image ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu
Terrence Wood wrote:
display:inline prevents your bullet from displaying.
Try float:left; and adjust your margins to suit.
Alternatively, you could try and add left-hand padding and place the
star as a non-repeating background image
#topnav ul li {
display: inline;
padding-left: 30px;
background: url(../images/star.gif) no-repeat left center;
line-height: 30px;
}
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
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[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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Re: [WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu
In fact, you could put the background image in the anchor to achieve a rollover affect by adjusting the background position, or changing the the image. Here's a good article on single background images and positioning: http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/05/navigation_matr.php kind regards Terrence Wood. On 7 Aug 2005, at 11:23 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Goodevening All, I have a slight problem. I can't seem to get the list-style-image to work, which is part of a unordered list set to display inline in a horizonal menu bar. On 7 Aug 2005, at 1:16 PM, russ - maxdesign wrote: I agree with Patrick - I'd use background-image instead of list-style-image as you have far more control over the placement of the image using the background-position property. Russ Alternatively, you could try and add left-hand padding and place the star as a non-repeating background image ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accordion style script behaviour
I would try youngpup.net and may be shaun innman atb Sam Peter Ottery wrote: i really like this accordion show/hide script... http://openrico.org/demos.page?demo=ricoAccordion.html .. and am thinking it might be useful for a really long list of FAQ's on a page. this particular example relies on the quite sizeable 'rico' javascript/s (which contain a whole bunch of other behaviours - and looks amazing) but i really just need this one show/hide behaviour. I know this is a pretty common behaviour - but the speed at which things develop in our community makes me think there is a great example out there somewhere that does *just* this. anyone got an example to share? pete (i know next to nothing about js, hence being on the lookout for examples by the pros :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accordion style script behaviour
Hi Peter, ...also, in Jeffrey Zeldman's book, Designing with Web Standards, there's some material which covers this in his chapter on working with DOM based scripts. On 6/24/05, Peter Ottery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i really like this accordion show/hide script... http://openrico.org/demos.page?demo=ricoAccordion.html .. and am thinking it might be useful for a really long list of FAQ's on a page. this particular example relies on the quite sizeable 'rico' javascript/s (which contain a whole bunch of other behaviours - and looks amazing) but i really just need this one show/hide behaviour. I know this is a pretty common behaviour - but the speed at which things develop in our community makes me think there is a great example out there somewhere that does *just* this. anyone got an example to share? pete (i know next to nothing about js, hence being on the lookout for examples by the pros :) -- Andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Print Style Fails[FIXED IT]
Hi, Solved it, a typo. On Monday, April 18, 2005, at 02:36 PM, Chris Kennon wrote: Hi, The following: ((http://www.ckimedia.com/c/print.css)) works when tested locally in firefox 1.0 on mac os 10.2.8, but when uploaded to the server it fails. What did I goof? CK __ Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do. ---Bruce Lee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** The true measure of ignorance is thinking intelligence is the solution to everything. -ck Chris Kennon Principal ckimedia (www.ckimedia.com) e-mail: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) blog: (http://thebardwire.ckimedia.com/) ph: (619)429-3258 fax: (619)429-3258 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Print Style Fails
Dunno if you already fixed this but I would try: Change media for print.css to screen see if its still no show. Try not using @import for it? Or possibly, ref the @import css files from root - eg /c/print.css, not c/print.css Cheers :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Kennon Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2005 9:36 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Print Style Fails Hi, The following: ((http://www.ckimedia.com/c/print.css)) works when tested locally in firefox 1.0 on mac os 10.2.8, but when uploaded to the server it fails. What did I goof? CK __ Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do. ---Bruce Lee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Print Style Fails
I think its because html {width: 100%} is not the
right way of doing it... have you tried body {width:
100%}? This works fine with my work.
Cheers
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Re: [WSG] xHTML style guide/ coding guidelines
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:18:39 -0500, Rob McCormack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . Anyone know of a nice style guide (or guidelines)for writing xHTML/HTML .. Rob New York Public Library Online Style Guide http://www.nypl.org/styleguide/ David -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] xHTML style guide/ coding guidelines
Rob, Let's rework your example: divpabc/p/div You really ought forget about nesting tables, in fact you might want to read up on using containers - divs - to create elements in the markup and CSS to control their display. Not what you want to hear, I know but take a long, determined look at tableless design and you'll never look back. Trust me on this. Cheers, Mike Pepper Accessible Web Developer Internet SEO and Marketing Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.visidigm.com Administrator Guild of Accessible Web Designers [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gawds.org Rob wrote: . Anyone know of a nice style guide (or guidelines)for writing xHTML/HTML. . What I mean is, how code should be specifically formatted, indents, wraps, placement of comments, treatment of long lines, suggestion for nesting tables etc. Example: tabletr tdabc/td /tr /table is far LESS readable than: !-- START main table -- table tr td abc /td /tr /table !-- END main table -- Thanks PS- I sure get a lot out of this list serve Rob -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 17/01/05 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] xHTML style guide/ coding guidelines
. Anyone know of a nice style guide (or guidelines)for writing xHTML/HTML. I think what you're asking about is a best practices guide, and most development departments have them. One example is here: http://developer.apple.com/internet/webcontent/bestwebdev.html -- Susan R. Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Mordechai, I can't speak for everybody, but as the person responsible for designing and creating websites whose sole purpose is to bring new business into the company; my main focus is the majority that comes to our sites. The overwhelming majority (about 70%) of visitors use MSIE 5/6. If I have to limit myself to certain practices or markup to ensure that those people don't get a unstyled or lightly styled page, then darn right I'm going to. I'm not going to be the one trying to explain to our owner why somebody is on the phone having problems accessing a part of the site, or trying to explain if we get an email saying our sites are horrible. That person could be an architect wanting to specify our products to the tune of multiple millions on a project. So yes, in the pursuit of filthy lucre, I'm going to cater to the majority, and the majority is IE. In answer to the question in your subject, Why style to IE? my answer is: because that's who visits our sites (by our I mean the company I work for). Cheers, Collin Davis Web Architect Stromberg Architectural Products p 903.454.0904 f 903.454.3642 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] web www.strombergarchitectural.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
As a person, you can of course say fuck you to IE, but as a web professional I find it impossible to ignore it. [ Ben de Groot - http://mathibus.com/archives/2004/10/02/phpss/#comment-3 ] On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:52:46 -0600, Collin Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mordechai, I can't speak for everybody, but as the person responsible for designing and creating websites whose sole purpose is to bring new business into the company; my main focus is the majority that comes to our sites. The overwhelming majority (about 70%) of visitors use MSIE 5/6. If I have to limit myself to certain practices or markup to ensure that those people don't get a unstyled or lightly styled page, then darn right I'm going to. I'm not going to be the one trying to explain to our owner why somebody is on the phone having problems accessing a part of the site, or trying to explain if we get an email saying our sites are horrible. That person could be an architect wanting to specify our products to the tune of multiple millions on a project. So yes, in the pursuit of filthy lucre, I'm going to cater to the majority, and the majority is IE. In answer to the question in your subject, Why style to IE? my answer is: because that's who visits our sites (by our I mean the company I work for). Cheers, Collin Davis Web Architect Stromberg Architectural Products p 903.454.0904 f 903.454.3642 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] web www.strombergarchitectural.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Mathias Bynens aka MaThIbUs http://mathibus.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:46:56 +0100, Mathias Bynens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a person, you can of course say fuck you to IE, but as a web professional I find it impossible to ignore it. [ Ben de Groot - http://mathibus.com/archives/2004/10/02/phpss/#comment-3 ] It's totally true. IE is a factor that weighs in at 95% of your project. Take that in account :) And as that is Ben's reply to my comment with the apt 'Fuck IE', I feel the need to explain. My visitors use primarily Firefox, Mozilla, Safari, Opera, feedreaders and IE. I hate IE, but if I don't need worry about it, fine. I won't. However, real projects should always be compliant. -- Cheers, Rob. » http://zooibaai.nl ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
If you make commercial sites you must live with the fact that it is mainly
for IE.
Loudest f. you I can tell to IE is Firebar:
http://hpstudios.homeip.net/Firebar.html
Usually I don't have to trash the code with conditional comments.
* html {}
and
* {}
css hacks are enough.
I try to make pages look better in better browsers. I use 8bit PNGs with
alpha (see pngquant), which degrade in IE to 1bit alpha instead of gray
background.
I give some extra hovers or occasional background-position: fixed for wow
effect in non-IE.
Users must see that other browsers are better. So far they only see that
some sites don't work in Firefox.
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
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Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Collin Davis wrote: I can't speak for everybody, but as the person responsible for designing and creating websites whose sole purpose is to bring new business into the company; my main focus is the majority that comes to our sites. As I though I explained before, and as I'll try to clarify some more below, you may be doing them a disservice. The overwhelming majority (about 70%) of visitors use MSIE 5/6. As I have tried to point out, almost all of them would still get 100% of the styling; if not through CSS alone, then with a little help from JavaScript. For that small percent of IE users who have JavaScript blocked, they'll just get what they're getting now. So while it would be no loss for them, it would be a gain for the rest. If I have to limit myself to certain practices or markup to ensure that those people don't get a unstyled or lightly styled page, then darn right I'm going to. So you limit yourself to what NN4.x and can handle? It was NN4.x and older browsers that the phrase unstyled or lightly styled was directed, unless you consider CSS dumb down to IE standards (admittedly, that usually amounts to no more than a slight margin, but a margin, none the less) to be lightly styled. I'm not going to be the one trying to explain to our owner why somebody is on the phone having problems accessing a part of the site, or trying to explain if we get an email saying our sites are horrible. That would be an interesting reversal; usually we need to explain why a Flash based sight or a sight which relies on JavaScript for functionality would do exactly that. (While I don't think I made it clear yet in this thread, as I have on a number of other occasions, I am a staunch advocate for unobtrusive JavaScript.) That person could be an architect wanting to specify our products to the tune of multiple millions on a project. And if that architect happens to be using NN4.x? So yes, in the pursuit of filthy lucre, There is nothing filthy about pursuit of profit, unless you see its pursuit as an end onto itself. While this could lead to a fascinating discussion of philosophy and ethics, I'm afraid it's also a bit off topic. I'm going to cater to the majority, and the majority is IE. And ignore standards by writing IE proprietary code? Somehow, I would guess not; otherwise you probably wouldn't be a member of this list. In answer to the question in your subject, Why style to IE? my answer is: because that's who visits [my employer's] sites. Sorry, but I don't think you read what I wrote in the body carefully enough. Admittedly, my subject line, while accurate, was intentionally a little misleading. Much of my argument, however, was that that there would be at most no diminution from what they get today, but for probably around 90% there would be an improvement. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why style to IE?
The point I was trying to make was that my audience primarily uses IE (as I dare say, so do most commercial web audiences). As such, I design my sites to work first and foremost *for* IE. The bashing of head against the proverbial brick wall comes from trying to make my standards-compliant sites work the same in FF/Opera/NN/Safari as they do in IE. All of my sites (save for I think 2), are done in XHTML 1.0 Strict, and I make sure each page validates, as well as the CSS. I first make sure the sites look and perform the way I want in both MSIE 5 and 6. After that is successful, I then start testing in the other browsers. For other sites (personal, concept, etc.), I worry about IE last, because most of my friends and colleagues use more standards compliant browsers. While I do know ECMA-262 (Javascript), I hate using it. I can develop much quicker just using a pure markup+css approach, and have no need for scripting. I hope that makes my original post clearer. In no way did I think Mordechai was suggesting an ignoring an IE, but was asking why style to IE specifically, and I was just giving the rationale for doing so. Cheers :) Collin Davis Web Architect Stromberg Architectural Products p 903.454.0904 f 903.454.3642 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] web www.strombergarchitectural.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vicki Berry Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:15 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Why style to IE? I don't believe Mordechai was suggesting anyone ignore IE -- rather that, instead of bashing our heads against the proverbial brick wall trying to make our standards-compliant sites work in IE, it may be a workable option to use an alternative to said head bashing and css hacks. His suggestion was to use Javascript. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Right on, Vicki. Additionally, conditional comments are not blocked in IE --as is JavaScript-- if the user has her Security setting at High. David On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:15:12 +0800, Vicki Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't believe Mordechai was suggesting anyone ignore IE -- rather that, instead of bashing our heads against the proverbial brick wall trying to make our standards-compliant sites work in IE, it may be a workable option to use an alternative to said head bashing and css hacks. His suggestion was to use Javascript. My own method of preference in these circumstances is the use of conditional comments for IE. I don't know Javascript, and with conditional comments a) the page still validates and works as intended in UAs that support standards, b) IE alone reads what's meant for IE alone and furthermore I can target specific versions of IE, c) I can still reference an external css file, and d) I can get IE to do what it's told by writing fast, clean css in far less time than it takes me to work out hacks. :-) It's not going to suit everyone and I'd be interested to hear people's ideas for and against these alternatives. Vicki. :-) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Mordechai Pellar wrote: So you limit yourself to what NN4.x and can handle? It was NN4.x and older browsers that the phrase unstyled or lightly styled was directed, unless you consider CSS dumb down to IE standards (admittedly, that usually amounts to no more than a slight margin, but a margin, none the less) to be lightly styled. I misinterpreted your meaning on that statement. What I was leaning towards was, for example, using something like :hover on attributes other than a tags, or using Javascript to simulate a :hover effect. Since IE doesn't recognize :hover apart from anchor tags, I only use :hover on anchor tags. And if that architect happens to be using NN4.x? I go through our statistics every Monday, and also print out a copy to hand to our owner. In the two years I've worked here, I believe I've seen a version of NN other than 7 once. However, if NN4.x was the predominant browser being used to access our sites, I would definitely design and code in such a way that it would work exactly like I wanted in NN4.x. There is nothing filthy about pursuit of profit, unless you see its pursuit as an end onto itself. While this could lead to a fascinating discussion of philosophy and ethics, I'm afraid it's also a bit off topic. My poor attempt at humor, and flashbacks to a fundamental upbringing, and yes, completely off topic, however, making the point that for commercial sites, it's 100% about making money, not about perfect, compliant code. :) And ignore standards by writing IE proprietary code? Somehow, I would guess not; otherwise you probably wouldn't be a member of this list. I think I was misunderstood here. I don't use any IE proprietary code at all, nor do I use hacks. Rather, my point was that I style first and foremost for IE, not for FF/Opera/NN/Safari/etc. Cheers, Collin Davis Web Architect Stromberg Architectural Products p 903.454.0904 f 903.454.3642 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] web www.strombergarchitectural.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Mordechai Peller wrote: I know there's a certain degree of revulsion to using JavaScript, but that's because it wasn't used properly. It's a very powerful language, and when combined with the DOM, and used responsibly, it can do many wonderful things. -- I agree with you especially for javascript. People cannot believe how many things we can do with javascript and DOM and still being standard. To my opinion not to have problems with the different browsers is to use what is common to all of them and to insure to give position or size to the object(with some exception like list) since that I have no problem of compatibility. Besides that I discover recently that w3c like to give us headhache witch collapsing margin and for that Microsoft is right margin is margin. Berry ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Good day all, I have to concur with Collin about designing for IE first and foremost. I run a design firm in Dallas, and the dominate browser is the US is certainly IE therefore it would be less then prudent or rational to design for FF/Opera/NN/Safari etc. I also understand and take advantage of JavaScript in conjunction with DOM where applicable. This is a powerful language and when used effectively can provide a host of functionality inline with standards-based technologies. The bottomline is that you have to pick your battles wisely, or risk becoming a hack :) Respectfully yours, Mario S. Cisneros, President WebNet Design Studios, LLC The point I was trying to make was that my audience primarily uses IE (as I dare say, so do most commercial web audiences). As such, I design my sites to work first and foremost *for* IE. The bashing of head against the proverbial brick wall comes from trying to make my standards-compliant sites work the same in FF/Opera/NN/Safari as they do in IE. All of my sites (save for I think 2), are done in XHTML 1.0 Strict, and I make sure each page validates, as well as the CSS. I first make sure the sites look and perform the way I want in both MSIE 5 and 6. After that is successful, I then start testing in the other browsers. For other sites (personal, concept, etc.), I worry about IE last, because most of my friends and colleagues use more standards compliant browsers. While I do know ECMA-262 (Javascript), I hate using it. I can develop much quicker just using a pure markup+css approach, and have no need for scripting. I hope that makes my original post clearer. In no way did I think Mordechai was suggesting an ignoring an IE, but was asking why style to IE specifically, and I was just giving the rationale for doing so. Cheers :) Collin Davis Web Architect Stromberg Architectural Products p 903.454.0904 f 903.454.3642 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] web www.strombergarchitectural.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vicki Berry Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:15 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Why style to IE? I don't believe Mordechai was suggesting anyone ignore IE -- rather that, instead of bashing our heads against the proverbial brick wall trying to make our standards-compliant sites work in IE, it may be a workable option to use an alternative to said head bashing and css hacks. His suggestion was to use Javascript. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Collin Davis wrote: The bashing of head against the proverbial brick wall comes from trying to make my standards-compliant sites work the same in FF/Opera/NN/Safari as they do in IE. I first make sure the sites look and perform the way I want in both MSIE 5 and 6. After that is successful, I then start testing in the other browsers. And there's your mistake. As has been discussed many times on this list and elsewhere, it's much easier and faster to first code to standards and then correct for IE. While I do know ECMA-262 (Javascript), I hate using it. I don't know how well you do or do not know JavaScript, but I suspect that either you don't know JavaScript very well (a common occurrence), or don't like to program (do such people really exist? ;-) ). I have found that the better I come to understand JavaScript, the more I like it; in many ways it is an interesting, powerful little, often misunderstood, language.[1] Lest I be misunderstood (a seemingly common occurrence of late), I was only guessing to what I felt was a likely source for your comment. You are, of course, equally entitled to your own opinion as I am to mine, and no insult is intended. [1] JavaScript:The World's Most Misunderstood Programming Language by Douglas Crockford http://www.crockford.com/javascript/javascript.html I can develop much quicker just using a pure markup+css approach, and have no need for scripting. There's no need to do your own scripting (though that happens to be my preference). All you need to do is plug in Dean Edwards's IE7 http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/. While I haven't used it myself, it's gotten good reviews. I hope that makes my original post clearer. I think you've made your point of view clearer. In no way did I think Mordechai was suggesting an ignoring an IE, but was asking why style to IE specifically, and I was just giving the rationale for doing so. Actually, what I was questioning is why we should limit ourselves to the CSS which IE understands natively when JavaScript can be such a good translator. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Collin Davis wrote: Since IE doesn't recognize :hover apart from anchor tags, I only use :hover on anchor tags. As I have done as well. Though now I'm wondering why not just use an onmouseover, hidden by either conditional comments or conditional compilation, as well? However, if NN4.x was the predominant browser being used to access our sites, I would definitely design and code in such a way that it would work exactly like I wanted in NN4.x. An unusual case which should be dealt with in an unusual manner. My poor attempt at humor, and flashbacks to a fundamental upbringing, and yes, completely off topic While I find debating different religions and philosophies enjoyable and interesting, besides being very off topic, It's often not worth the risk of causing offense. however, making the point that for commercial sites, it's 100% about making money, not about perfect, compliant code. :) Many is the time that people forfeit greater returns tomorrow for a seemingly quicker return today. In the end they often end up loosing money. I don't use any IE proprietary code at all, I didn't suggest that you did, otherwise you probably wouldn't be a member of this list. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
I think it is important *not to* buildtest in IE first. You have to avoid building your code on top of some IE bug/quirk. It is much less work to force IE to behave well, than making all other browsers misbehave like IE. For that matter I build and test pages for Firefox and Opera7 first (having IE (in)capatibilities in mind), and after I have desired layout I start fighting to get it working in IE. This guarantees that code for all browsers is standards-compiliant and invalid junk is only served to IEnvalid junk. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Mordechai Peller wrote: And there's your mistake. As has been discussed many times on this list and elsewhere, it's much easier and faster to first code to standards and then correct for IE. I may be a duck out of water here, but I don't find it to be so. I've done it both ways, and marking up for IE first, I can get it together and on the web faster than marking up for other browsers, and IE. After the site is live, I can then go back and tweak settings to make sure it works with other browsers, and gradually implement the changes in CSS files or markup. I don't know how well you do or do not know JavaScript, but I suspect that either you don't know JavaScript very well (a common occurrence), or don't like to program (do such people really exist? ;-) ). I have found that the better I come to understand JavaScript, the more I like it; in many ways it is an interesting, powerful little, often misunderstood, language.[1] While by no means an expert on JavaScript, I've been using it for about nine years now. You are correct however, in that I don't like to program. At all. I come from a design background, not a computer science background. I outsource 95% of my PHP/SQL work, and concentrate almost exclusively on design for the web and print, but still choose to do all markup, because I do believe that standards compliant markup is something that is very, very important, and don't trust anybody else to do it. :) Actually, what I was questioning is why we should limit ourselves to the CSS which IE understands natively when JavaScript can be such a good translator. The reason I limit myself, is that I can move all my design concepts to the web without using JavaScript as a translator, rather by simply using standards compliant markup and CSS formatting. However, I do abide by the less is more line of thought when it comes to design, and try to keep everything as simple and understandable as possible. Again, this is because I cater to a specific audience. Say Kioken Design were still around today and they were staunch supporters of standards compliance. In that case, flashiness would supersede content and usability, and they would have good reason to use every tool and trick available to make sure their design ideas were carried over. Thanks for the link to IE7 - really nice! Cheers, Collin Davis Web Architect Stromberg Architectural Products p 903.454.0904 f 903.454.3642 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] web www.strombergarchitectural.com While I find debating different religions and philosophies enjoyable and interesting, besides being very off topic, It's often not worth the risk of causing offense. If you use IRC at all, I'd like to invite you to #computerhelp on Undernet, where I'm a channel administrator. We have a great group of people, and are always looking for intelligent newcomers! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why style to IE?
You have to avoid building your code on top of some IE bug/quirk. The only bug/quirk with IE that I've come across that needed my attention was the big one: box model. I prefer to use the box in a box sort of workaround, rather than tantek, SBMH, modified SBMH or alternate BMHs, simply because I don't see the box in a box method as being a hack, per se. Other than that, the small things like the lack of :hover tag support, etc. I can live without those particular effects. This guarantees that code for all browsers is standards-compiliant and invalid junk is only served to IEnvalid junk. Why serve any junk at all? It is entirely possible to create fully standards compliant, visually striking pages without using hacks, extra scripting or any other sort of method. Csszengarden is the only example you need of that. Cheers, Collin Davis Web Architect Stromberg Architectural Products p 903.454.0904 f 903.454.3642 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] web www.strombergarchitectural.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
The only bug/quirk with IE that I've come across that needed my attention was the big one: box model. I prefer to use the box in a box sort of workaround This needs excessive divs and without IE support for '' selector requires them additionally messed with lots of id/classes. Why serve any junk at all? To make good [X]HTML and good CSS work in bad browser. It is entirely possible to create fully standards compliant visually striking pages without using hacks Not really. It requires lots of effort or extra code to avoid buggy areas completly. Csszengarden is the only example you need of that. HTML for CSSZengarden is an absolute mess (read comment in code). Stylesheets are bit simpler because of tons of extra markup in code, but this duo is not kind you'd like to maintain on everyday basis. and even not all stylesheets are 'pure', take this one: http://www.csszengarden.com/144/144.css -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why style to IE?
re: and even not all stylesheets are 'pure', take this one: Name: Lim Yuan Qing Age: 14 DOB: 25th January 1990 Location: Singapore Yuan Qing is an alumnus of Temasek Secondary and Ngee Ann Primary. Come 2005 he will attend school at Temasek Junior College in its Integrated Programme (IP). On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:07:46 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only bug/quirk with IE that I've come across that needed my attention was the big one: box model. I prefer to use the box in a box sort of workaround This needs excessive divs and without IE support for '' selector requires them additionally messed with lots of id/classes. Why serve any junk at all? To make good [X]HTML and good CSS work in bad browser. It is entirely possible to create fully standards compliant visually striking pages without using hacks Not really. It requires lots of effort or extra code to avoid buggy areas completly. Csszengarden is the only example you need of that. HTML for CSSZengarden is an absolute mess (read comment in code). Stylesheets are bit simpler because of tons of extra markup in code, but this duo is not kind you'd like to maintain on everyday basis. and even not all stylesheets are 'pure', take this one: http://www.csszengarden.com/144/144.css -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Title: RE: [WSG] Why style to IE? Thanks for the Dean Edwards link! ByteDreams -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mordechai Peller Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 2:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Why style to IE? Collin Davis wrote: The bashing of head against the proverbial brick wall comes from trying to make my standards-compliant sites work the same in FF/Opera/NN/Safari as they do in IE. I first make sure the sites look and perform the way I want in both MSIE 5 and 6. After that is successful, I then start testing in the other browsers. And there's your mistake. As has been discussed many times on this list and elsewhere, it's much easier and faster to first code to standards and then correct for IE. While I do know ECMA-262 (_javascript_), I hate using it. I don't know how well you do or do not know _javascript_, but I suspect that either you don't know _javascript_ very well (a common occurrence), or don't like to program (do such people really exist? ;-) ). I have found that the better I come to understand _javascript_, the more I like it; in many ways it is an interesting, powerful little, often misunderstood, language.[1] Lest I be misunderstood (a seemingly common occurrence of late), I was only guessing to what I felt was a likely source for your comment. You are, of course, equally entitled to your own opinion as I am to mine, and no insult is intended. [1] _javascript_:The World's Most Misunderstood Programming Language by Douglas Crockford http://www.crockford.com/_javascript_/_javascript_.html I can develop much quicker just using a pure markup+css approach, and have no need for scripting. There's no need to do your own scripting (though that happens to be my preference). All you need to do is plug in Dean Edwards's IE7 http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/. While I haven't used it myself, it's gotten good reviews. I hope that makes my original post clearer. I think you've made your point of view clearer. In no way did I think Mordechai was suggesting an ignoring an IE, but was asking why style to IE specifically, and I was just giving the rationale for doing so. Actually, what I was questioning is why we should limit ourselves to the CSS which IE understands natively when _javascript_ can be such a good translator. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why style to IE?
Title: RE: [WSG] Why style to IE? One other thing... Have you not used this method yourself for any particular reason, other than the opportunity just didn't present itself? Just curious. ByteDreams -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mordechai Peller Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 2:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Why style to IE? Collin Davis wrote: The bashing of head against the proverbial brick wall comes from trying to make my standards-compliant sites work the same in FF/Opera/NN/Safari as they do in IE. I first make sure the sites look and perform the way I want in both MSIE 5 and 6. After that is successful, I then start testing in the other browsers. And there's your mistake. As has been discussed many times on this list and elsewhere, it's much easier and faster to first code to standards and then correct for IE. While I do know ECMA-262 (_javascript_), I hate using it. I don't know how well you do or do not know _javascript_, but I suspect that either you don't know _javascript_ very well (a common occurrence), or don't like to program (do such people really exist? ;-) ). I have found that the better I come to understand _javascript_, the more I like it; in many ways it is an interesting, powerful little, often misunderstood, language.[1] Lest I be misunderstood (a seemingly common occurrence of late), I was only guessing to what I felt was a likely source for your comment. You are, of course, equally entitled to your own opinion as I am to mine, and no insult is intended. [1] _javascript_:The World's Most Misunderstood Programming Language by Douglas Crockford http://www.crockford.com/_javascript_/_javascript_.html I can develop much quicker just using a pure markup+css approach, and have no need for scripting. There's no need to do your own scripting (though that happens to be my preference). All you need to do is plug in Dean Edwards's IE7 http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/. While I haven't used it myself, it's gotten good reviews. I hope that makes my original post clearer. I think you've made your point of view clearer. In no way did I think Mordechai was suggesting an ignoring an IE, but was asking why style to IE specifically, and I was just giving the rationale for doing so. Actually, what I was questioning is why we should limit ourselves to the CSS which IE understands natively when _javascript_ can be such a good translator. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Print Style Sheet Inconsistencies
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Chris Stratford wrote: 1) Printing IGNORES all background attributes... This is understandable - but I didn't realise this until just now... So my LI background elements weren't printing (or showing in Print Preview which is how I check what it looks like) A small consolation: you can set your browser to print background colours and images. But yes, out of the box, these will indeed not be printed. 2) FireFox Ignores Custom LI background elements (the proper method with: list-style-image: url(../media/ul_li_point.gif); - not using a background image) This is very annoying, because basically if you want to include the custom element in a print now - I need to put the image inside the li... This must be a bug or a mistake on Moz's behalf?? IE will print the background LI element - which is good! I think that is the way it should be? Or is there a reason why Moz has done this? This is only a stricter enforcement of 1). It's a bit schizophrenic of IE to give users the option not to print background colours and images, but then happily still doing it for things like LI. In my mind FF is correct here. I dont know if I explained it correctly - or if you understoood what I meant. But the problem I am having is the LIST BULLET are printing in IE, but not FF... Why wouldn't FF print List Bullets? I believe that the bullets are crucial to the operation of ULs... I may aswell use a p tag with some br /s. Anyone else have anything to say on the topic? -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Print Style Sheet Inconsistencies
From: Chris Stratford I dont know if I explained it correctly - or if you understoood what I meant. But the problem I am having is the LIST BULLET are printing in IE, but not FF... Ah ok, I thought you had used trickery with background images. Fair enough, it looks like a wrong-ish interpretation on FF's part (by the look of it, it just ignores *any* images set via CSS). Why wouldn't FF print List Bullets? I believe that the bullets are crucial to the operation of ULs... I may aswell use a p tag with some br /s. To work around it at the moment, may be worth doing a separate print stylesheet which reverts to normal default bullets rather than list style images. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Print Style Sheet Inconsistencies
Chris Stratford wrote: 1) Printing IGNORES all background attributes... This is understandable - but I didn't realise this until just now... So my LI background elements weren't printing (or showing in Print Preview which is how I check what it looks like) A small consolation: you can set your browser to print background colours and images. But yes, out of the box, these will indeed not be printed. 2) FireFox Ignores Custom LI background elements (the proper method with: list-style-image: url(../media/ul_li_point.gif); - not using a background image) This is very annoying, because basically if you want to include the custom element in a print now - I need to put the image inside the li... This must be a bug or a mistake on Moz's behalf?? IE will print the background LI element - which is good! I think that is the way it should be? Or is there a reason why Moz has done this? This is only a stricter enforcement of 1). It's a bit schizophrenic of IE to give users the option not to print background colours and images, but then happily still doing it for things like LI. In my mind FF is correct here. -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Style Switcher... (CSS Caching)
Again no disrespect - I too am all for easier maintenance on the server side, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that your files will be cached just because the URL doesn't change. I have just made several requests to your site all the (index page) and each time your CSS was downloaded (while your images cached). I have had this problem in the past (but with a different SSI language) and came to the conclusion that the HTTP headers are missing details which makes the browser cache the page (eg. Last-Modified, Etag, Content-Length). Files which are built on the fly (eg. ASP, PHP) do not cache well as the file is always new. You maybe able to get around this by forging the HTTP headers your server sends but this can be a difficult task. A simple solution, which the www.optusnet.com.au website uses, is to break the large dynamic stylesheet up into smaller static ones and use the cascading ideal of the language to make your skin changes. A handy tool to check how well your site caches is at http://www.web-caching.com/cacheability.html I know this is way off topic for this list but I wanted to alert the many designers of this problem as it is a common mistake. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
Sorry if the last part of that didn't make sense.
When it echos the default CSS to the browser - I just meant.
It is irrelivant what page you are on.
Becuase its global CSS...
This is what the CSS looks like in the PHP:
body
{
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 150px 0;
background: #?=$BODY_COLOUR?
url(/styles/default_background_?=$BODY_STYLE?.gif) repeat;
color: #?=$BODY_TEXT?;
font-family: ?=$BODY_FONT?;
font-size: ?=$BODY_FONT_SIZE?;
text-align: center;
}
#cont
{
background-color: #?=$CONT_COLOUR?;
text-align: left;
width: ?=$CONT_WIDTH?;
?=$CONT_BORDER?
margin: ?=$CONT_MARGIN?;
}
#header
{
?=$HEAD_BORDER?
height: ?=$HEAD_HEIGHT?;
background: #?=$HEAD_COLOUR? ?=$HEAD_IMAGE? no-repeat;
color: #?=$HEAD_TEXT_COLOUR?;
}
#nav
{
padding: ?=$NAV_PADDING?;
width: ?=$NAV_WIDTH?;
?=$NAV_BORDER?
float: left;
margin: ?=$NAV_MARGIN?;
background-color: #?=$NAV_COLOUR?;
color: #?=$NAV_TEXT_COLOUR?;
}
below all that is the:
switch($PAGE)
case 'contact':
?
CONTACT PAGE CSS HERE etc...
?
break;
case 'resume':
?
RESUME CSS HERE etc...
?
Hope that helped explain it a bit more...
:)
Chris Stratford wrote:
*Hey WSG,*
I have just begun re-development of neester.com once again.
This time because my server switched Magic Quotes on... Which is good!
But all my old scripting had addslashes etc... and it just became
really dodgy etc...
It was a good excuse to redevelop it again.
If you goto www.neester.com you will see a grey page.
I have used my own styleswitcher which I think is very efficent and
well - its pretty cool how it all works.
I will explain it here now - and I will write an article when I am
finished with the site...
BTW I know I could of used Lorium Ipsum - but Google will get annoyed
and think its /latin/, happened before.
Ok.
What happens is, once you load the page - the PHP inside index.php
sets the stylesheet location in the HEADER to:
link rel=stylesheet href=/styles/d_index_default.css
title=Neester.Com | Default Style media=all type=text/css
See how the location is d_index_default.css
Well, that basically means, it loads the default stylesheet, for the
index page, with the colour: default...
If you click on a different style on the page, say Green...
that will then become:
link rel=stylesheet href=/styles/d_index_green.css
title=Neester.Com | Default Style media=all type=text/css
Each page also changes the link...
eg - if i had the contact page working.
The link inside that would be:
link rel=stylesheet href=/styles/d_contact_default.css
title=Neester.Com | Default Style media=all type=text/css
or if you are still using green
link rel=stylesheet href=/styles/d_contact_green.css
title=Neester.Com | Default Style media=all type=text/css
Now I dont actually have 100,000 stylesheets for all these.
I am using .htaccess to redirect these connections to a single PHP CSS
file...
I cant include the whole file here, but here is an algorithm of how it
works is below...
The PHP loads with about 100 variables (colours, margins, paddings,
background images, fonts etc...)
Then the PHP has a switch function - which deterimines WHICH colour
you are loading...
Then it resets some of the 100 variables - to suit that style...
THEN it echo's the DEFAULT styles to the browser...
Then it has another SWITCH, which it echo's only that PAGES RELEVANT
styles...
eg:
contact page would have:
#contact_form input,#contact_form select,#contact_form textarea
{
blah...
}
SOO
In effect.
The browser sees 4 stylesheets per page if you go through each of the
styles...
And it will cache them too - because they actually have a real path
(.htaccess just modifies it when it gets to the server)...
So it will run asif I have 100 stylesheets...
but in effect, i only have one!
adding those 4 styles has been a breeze.
I just added about 20 lines to each of the STYLES SWITCH function
points...
And yeah - because you only edit the styles you want to change.
The rest can stay default (margins for example...)
*If you are more interested, I can send you the PHP code for this.
I dont mind if other people use this method - I would like it if you
gave me credit.
but yeah.
I havent seen it used anywhere else - but then again - I didn't really
look.
if you have seen this method used somewhere else - please post some
links...
Cheers!
*Hope that wasnt too long...
And I hope it is easy to understand - and someone out there learnt
something they might use...
*
*--
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
--
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com
RE: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
I use a style switcher on my site although it works a bit differently.
$dxstyle = $_COOKIE[dxstyle];
$replace_strings = array(../ , ..\\ , /.., \\.., .); $dxstyle =
str_replace($replace_strings, , $dxstyle);
style type=text/css media=screen
?php echo @import url(;
if (file_exists(style.$dxstyle..css)) {
echo /style.$dxstyle..css;
}
else {
echo /style5.css;
}
echo );; ?
/style
Sorry if that is a bit hard to read. What happens is when you click on the style
changer you are set a cookie. The php code above reads which style you're using from
the cookie and loads the correct style. If no style is set it loads the default one.
In action here:
http://blog.dalegroup.net
(although all the other styles are dodgy :p)
Michael Dale
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
Hey Michael,
Sorry my title is a little off - the post isn't so much about the cookie
and the style switcher.
But more about the PHP code being very efficent in presenting the CSS to
the browser.
So you only load the CSS you are using on that page...
And you have 1 file, for every page, and for every style
There are limitations, but not too many...
You can always work around them with extra variables...
:)
Thanks for the input though.
Cheers
Michael Dale wrote:
I use a style switcher on my site although it works a bit differently.
$dxstyle = $_COOKIE[dxstyle];
$replace_strings = array(../ , ..\\ , /.., \\.., .); $dxstyle =
str_replace($replace_strings, , $dxstyle);
style type=text/css media=screen
?php echo @import url(;
if (file_exists(style.$dxstyle..css)) {
echo /style.$dxstyle..css;
}
else {
echo /style5.css;
}
echo );; ?
/style
Sorry if that is a bit hard to read. What happens is when you click on the style
changer you are set a cookie. The php code above reads which style you're using from
the cookie and loads the correct style. If no style is set it loads the default one.
In action here:
http://blog.dalegroup.net
(although all the other styles are dodgy :p)
Michael Dale
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
--
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
Sounds pretty cool.
I'm curious though, what's the file size of all that php in the css, as opposed
to actually handling 4 separate css files for color that can @import the main
body/text styles from a fifth master file?
It sounds really big and fancy, but for a style switcher I'm just wondering how
efficient all that work is?
Sorry if I sound negative, I don't mean to... I'm just not really a fan of style
switchers unless it has a distinct advantage of adjusting readability/usability
for the visitor.
Although, to your advantage, I love kick-ass php writing.
Anton
Quoting Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
*Hey WSG,*
I have just begun re-development of neester.com once again.
This time because my server switched Magic Quotes on... Which is good!
But all my old scripting had addslashes etc... and it just became really
dodgy etc...
It was a good excuse to redevelop it again.
If you goto www.neester.com you will see a grey page.
I have used my own styleswitcher which I think is very efficent and well
- its pretty cool how it all works.
I will explain it here now - and I will write an article when I am
finished with the site...
BTW I know I could of used Lorium Ipsum - but Google will get annoyed
and think its /latin/, happened before.
Ok.
What happens is, once you load the page - the PHP inside index.php sets
the stylesheet location in the HEADER to:
link rel=stylesheet href=/styles/d_index_default.css
title=Neester.Com | Default Style media=all type=text/css
See how the location is d_index_default.css
Well, that basically means, it loads the default stylesheet, for the
index page, with the colour: default...
If you click on a different style on the page, say Green...
that will then become:
link rel=stylesheet href=/styles/d_index_green.css
title=Neester.Com | Default Style media=all type=text/css
Each page also changes the link...
eg - if i had the contact page working.
The link inside that would be:
link rel=stylesheet href=/styles/d_contact_default.css
title=Neester.Com | Default Style media=all type=text/css
or if you are still using green
link rel=stylesheet href=/styles/d_contact_green.css
title=Neester.Com | Default Style media=all type=text/css
Now I dont actually have 100,000 stylesheets for all these.
I am using .htaccess to redirect these connections to a single PHP CSS
file...
I cant include the whole file here, but here is an algorithm of how it
works is below...
The PHP loads with about 100 variables (colours, margins, paddings,
background images, fonts etc...)
Then the PHP has a switch function - which deterimines WHICH colour
you are loading...
Then it resets some of the 100 variables - to suit that style...
THEN it echo's the DEFAULT styles to the browser...
Then it has another SWITCH, which it echo's only that PAGES RELEVANT
styles...
eg:
contact page would have:
#contact_form input,#contact_form select,#contact_form textarea
{
blah...
}
SOO
In effect.
The browser sees 4 stylesheets per page if you go through each of the
styles...
And it will cache them too - because they actually have a real path
(.htaccess just modifies it when it gets to the server)...
So it will run asif I have 100 stylesheets...
but in effect, i only have one!
adding those 4 styles has been a breeze.
I just added about 20 lines to each of the STYLES SWITCH function points...
And yeah - because you only edit the styles you want to change.
The rest can stay default (margins for example...)
*If you are more interested, I can send you the PHP code for this.
I dont mind if other people use this method - I would like it if you
gave me credit.
but yeah.
I havent seen it used anywhere else - but then again - I didn't really look.
if you have seen this method used somewhere else - please post some links...
Cheers!
*Hope that wasnt too long...
And I hope it is easy to understand - and someone out there learnt
something they might use...
*
*--
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] braille style sheet
Hi ted, This information from [http://www.codestyle.org/css/media/braille-BrowserSummary.shtml] may be helpful: Test case results for media types aural, braille, embossed, handheld, tty and tv are equivalent in all the mainstream browsers tested to date, none of which support these media. I haven't heard and cannot find any mention of any user agent that supports any media type other than screen, print and projector (opera only). with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ection.com cc: Sent by: Subject: [WSG] braille style sheet [EMAIL PROTECTED] p.org 07/10/2004 07:53 AM Please respond to wsg Has anyone on the list ever made a braille style sheet? What is involved? Are there any templates to suggest a standard braille sheet? What about Aural style sheets? I'm referring to the w3c media descriptors: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#h-6.13 braille Intended for braille tactile feedback devices. aural Intended for speech synthesizers. I'd love to offer a special style sheet for these if it is helpful. Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Table-style admin layouts
It's tabular data, so you should use a table. It displays reliably, it's semantically correct and if implemented correctly it's usable for screen readers. It's best to use all of the semantic table elements (th, tbody, thead, summary, caption) if you can. Jake Quoting Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, Is there a best-practice way to build an item display with multiple columns, but without using tables? What I want to do is build something like this: Name Price Quantity EditDelete Apple $5.0025 [edit] [delete] Pear $4.00 3 [edit] [delete] Banana $12.00 5 [edit] [delete] But without cluttering the HTML with table layout data... Or is this a case where its better to bite the bullet and just do it in a table...? I'm new here to please be gentle if this is a dumb question :) thanks, bye! --- Ryan Sabir Newgency Pty Ltd 2a Broughton St Paddington 2021 Sydney, Australia Ph (02) 9331 2133 Fax (02) 9331 5199 Mobile: 0411 512 454 http://www.newgency.com/index.cfm?referer=rysig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Table-style admin layouts
Ryan, this is tabular data, just what tables are built for. Go for it! Grant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ryan Sabir Sent: Tuesday, 5 October 2004 4:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Table-style admin layouts Hi all, Is there a best-practice way to build an item display with multiple columns, but without using tables? What I want to do is build something like this: Name Price Quantity EditDelete Apple $5.0025 [edit] [delete] Pear $4.00 3 [edit] [delete] Banana $12.00 5 [edit] [delete] But without cluttering the HTML with table layout data... Or is this a case where its better to bite the bullet and just do it in a table...? I'm new here to please be gentle if this is a dumb question :) thanks, bye! --- Ryan Sabir Newgency Pty Ltd 2a Broughton St Paddington 2021 Sydney, Australia Ph (02) 9331 2133 Fax (02) 9331 5199 Mobile: 0411 512 454 http://www.newgency.com/index.cfm?referer=rysig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privileged information or confidential information or both. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it and notify the sender. ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Table-style admin layouts
On 10/4/04 11:22 PM Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: Name Price Quantity EditDelete Apple $5.0025 [edit] [delete] Pear $4.00 3 [edit] [delete] Banana $12.00 5 [edit] [delete] But without cluttering the HTML with table layout data... Or is this a case where its better to bite the bullet and just do it in a table...? I vote for it's tabular data - use a table. Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Table-style admin layouts
Is there a best-practice way to build an item display with multiple columns, but without using tables? Name Price Quantity Edit Delete Apple $5.00 25 [edit] [delete] Pear $4.00 3 [edit] [delete] Banana $12.00 5 [edit] [delete]1 vote for "thats table data - use a table"and your bananas are very expensive.:) pete
Re: [WSG] Table-style admin layouts
At 07:48 on Tuesday, 05 Oct 2004, Peter Ottery wrote: Is there a best-practice way to build an item display with multiple columns, but without using tables? Name Price Quantity EditDelete Apple $5.0025 [edit] [delete] Pear $4.00 3 [edit] [delete] Banana $12.00 5 [edit] [delete] 1 vote for thats table data - use a table /lurk A small concern here... The subject line and the presence of edit and delete columns suggest that this is in fact an interactive form, not a display of tabular data. shouldn't we be pointing to all the good stuff on form styling and layout? (eg http://www.aplus.co.yu/dots/109/) or are we saying that forms with tabular data (and edit/delete buttons) can be in tables? ;o) lurk -- listening to: background noise http://wiki.workalone.co.uk http://www.xebit.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Strange style behaviour in IE
Anura wrote: What happens is that once the page has loaded, if you scroll down and then scroll up again, the styles are then displayed. Hit refresh, and they disappear again. Also, I notice that hitting the ALT key makes those styles disappear. I haven't checked, but it sounds a lot like the Peekaboo bug [1]. Even if it isn't, that site might be able to help Cheers, Lachlan [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Strange style behaviour in IE
I had seen the Peerkaboo bug but discounted it because (1) I'm using IE5 but the article mentions IE6. I can't get the claimed bug to work, and (2) it doesn't really match my situation. However, in tinkering with different forms of layout (absolute widths for columns, relative widths for columns, floats for columns) the problem has gone away. I would give myself a pat on the back except for the fact I have no idea what went wrong in the first place or what I did to fix it! Anura On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:09:53 +1000, Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anura wrote: What happens is that once the page has loaded, if you scroll down and then scroll up again, the styles are then displayed. Hit refresh, and they disappear again. Also, I notice that hitting the ALT key makes those styles disappear. I haven't checked, but it sounds a lot like the Peekaboo bug [1]. Even if it isn't, that site might be able to help Cheers, Lachlan [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
Friday 13 August 2004 was my last day with the Commission. I have taken up a new position with the State Emergency Service in Wollongong. If you need assistance with the Working With Children Check please call 9286 7219 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you need assistance with a Information Management System please call Liz McGee on 9286 7275 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
you can but only in IE due to IE having some weirdness occuring in the
way they layout the page.
BUT
if you style the columns using the IE method, and style the third td
(td+td+td etc) which will be understood by most modern browsers you
should be able to get the column styled for everybody.
perhaps not the best way to go about things but it will work
s
Michael Kear wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that you can style tables by columns, just as you
can by rows and cells.In the article I read, the example showed TH
across the top of the table, and the first column of cells was styled using
some kind of column selector, not picking the first cell in each row. (this
is one of those senior moments I guess, because I can't find where I read
that now - it was in one of Russ's light reading posts a few months back I
think.)
But if it's what I think it is, that would allow you to give a column an id
and style it that way.
No?
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 1:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
You may want to look at COLGROUPs
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4
Patrick H. Lauke
Justin French wrote:
Hi Folks,
Is there any way (without ids or classes) to target the 3rd (for
example) column of a table to apply styles?
What I'm hoping for is something like...
table td[3]{ text-align:right; }
... but I can't see anything like that in my references.
TIA
**
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Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
On Aug 13, 2004, at 3:31 pm, scott parsons wrote: you can but only in IE due to IE having some weirdness occuring in the way they layout the page. BUT if you style the columns using the IE method, and style the third td (td+td+td etc) which will be understood by most modern browsers you should be able to get the column styled for everybody. perhaps not the best way to go about things but it will work You can apply a background-colour via the col element in *all* modern browsers [1]. Mozilla (prior to 1.7) and Firefox (pre 0.9) didn't support this due to inconsistencies in the css2 specs. The discussion has been settled/clarified with the release of CSS2.1 CR, and it is now implemented in Firefox0.9+ and Mozilla 1.7+. (I don't have the bugzilla number handy on this, sorry). http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#q4 On a side note, if a table contains more than 3 columns, then the syntax td+td+td will give a background colour to more than one column. You'd need to add td+td+td+td to override the previous one. [1] Safari, Omniweb5, Opera7.x, IE Mac and Gecko based browsers now. ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
On 13/08/2004, at 4:31 PM, scott parsons wrote: you can but only in IE due to IE having some weirdness occuring in the way they layout the page. BUT if you style the columns using the IE method, and style the third td (td+td+td etc) which will be understood by most modern browsers you should be able to get the column styled for everybody. I think I'm happy with right-aligned with td+td+td for decent browsers, and leaving it left-aligned for IE and all other almost-browsers :) Thanks everyone! --- Justin French http://indent.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
Ah! That'll be why I didn't archive it. I figure life's too short to be fretting about IE and non-IE capabilities. I figure while I have the say-so on the design aspect of a site, I'll just not use anything that doesn't work in all browsers. i.e. if it's IE only, it doesn't get done. The vast majority of things can be achieved in a number of ways, and if a design feature requires some proprietary or non-standard behaviour in the browser, then I'll go looking for ways to achieve the same thing, perhaps in a different way, but in a cross-browser standards compliant fashion. Of course if your job is to code up the design handed to you by a designer, signed off by the client, then perhaps you don't have quite as much flexibility. But in general, unless a technique is widely supported, I don't bother to go into much detail with it. When the new version of CSS is released, I'll read about it, understand the issues, but won't bother learning much about it until there is a wide acceptance of it in the marketplace. There's enough going through my mind for me to learn about, without having to learn things I'm maybe going to use some time in the future, maybe not. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of scott parsons Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table? you can but only in IE due to IE having some weirdness occuring in the way they layout the page. BUT if you style the columns using the IE method, and style the third td (td+td+td etc) which will be understood by most modern browsers you should be able to get the column styled for everybody. perhaps not the best way to go about things but it will work s ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
Hi Justin,
Not well supported by IE but you can do with adjacent sibling selectors:
td+td+td { background: red;}
Only the third column would display a red background
Sample:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/adjacent.htm
Russ
Hi Folks,
Is there any way (without ids or classes) to target the 3rd (for
example) column of a table to apply styles?
What I'm hoping for is something like...
table td[3]{ text-align:right; }
... but I can't see anything like that in my references.
TIA
---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
You may want to look at COLGROUPs
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4
Patrick H. Lauke
Justin French wrote:
Hi Folks,
Is there any way (without ids or classes) to target the 3rd (for
example) column of a table to apply styles?
What I'm hoping for is something like...
table td[3]{ text-align:right; }
... but I can't see anything like that in my references.
TIA
---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
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_
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[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
I thought I read somewhere that you can style tables by columns, just as you
can by rows and cells.In the article I read, the example showed TH
across the top of the table, and the first column of cells was styled using
some kind of column selector, not picking the first cell in each row. (this
is one of those senior moments I guess, because I can't find where I read
that now - it was in one of Russ's light reading posts a few months back I
think.)
But if it's what I think it is, that would allow you to give a column an id
and style it that way.
No?
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 1:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
You may want to look at COLGROUPs
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4
Patrick H. Lauke
Justin French wrote:
Hi Folks,
Is there any way (without ids or classes) to target the 3rd (for
example) column of a table to apply styles?
What I'm hoping for is something like...
table td[3]{ text-align:right; }
... but I can't see anything like that in my references.
TIA
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] third style sheet needed?
the site is http://creekside.dpsnc.net and the CSS is located at http://creekside.dpsnc.net/print.css and http://creekside.dpsnc.net/creekside.css\ P.S... I'm aware that the URL below my name is a mess. but that's a different story :-) Bruce Gilbert Webmaster Durham Public Schools Durham, North Carolina (919) 560-9118 -Office Phone http://www.dpsnc.net Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] m To Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc group.org Subject Re: [WSG] third style sheet needed? 05/31/2004 05:47 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a style sheet I am using for the web media=screen and I also have one for print purposes media=print. I also want to hide the CSS from older browsers such as NS 4.0 etc. using the @import feature if possible. snip/ It would help if you supplied either a URL or a code snipped. I have a guess at what the problem is, but I'd rather withhold my guesses since code would make guessing unnecessary. http://www.dpsnc.net This URL doesn't match your description, so I assume you're referring to a different one. It, by the way, is a mess. It has two heads with a form tag in between. Needless to say it doesn't validate. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] third style sheet needed?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the site is http://creekside.dpsnc.net and the CSS is located at http://creekside.dpsnc.net/print.css and http://creekside.dpsnc.net/creekside.css\ I take it you didn't try to validate? If you did, you probably would have found the extra quotation mark in the link/. That might solve your problem with the @-rule being ignored. If that doesn't solve the problem, copy and paste the links and @-rules you're using to your message. You should realize that while people here are very happy to help, they don't want it for you. By not running a page first through the validator, you're basically saying to people I'm too lazy to do my own work; you do it for me. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
