Re: [ZION] Help Me Please - Ignore as Usual
At 09:25 PM 3/9/04, Grampa Bill in Savannah wrote: Rick Mathis wrote: So, Bill, is she married? I have a 25 year old menace to society who doesn't seem to be making much movement in that direction. = Grampa answers. She's single and IMHO a knock-out beauty. She has, however, been going steady with a non-member for some eight years now. She has sworn she would not marry outside the temple, but I see no signs of either marriage or her dumping him. Her older sister's opinion is she's just gotten comfortable and doesn't want to re-enter the dating scene, but then, Older Sister has an opinion on most everything. Yer boy TR eligible or card-carrying? RM? Nitpick for discussion concerning your questions: So is it you or she who would not consider marriage to, frex, someone who held a TR but joined the Church too late to serve a mission as a young man? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Gay Marriage in Oregon
At 12:33 PM 3/4/04, Gerald Smith wrote: Interesting that all these gay marriage actions are taking place in liberal coastline states. You just don't see any small towns in Mississippi handing out marriage licenses like that, do you? So are you suggesting that it must be something in the water? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Return of the King
At 07:25 PM 11/16/03 -0900, John W. Redelfs wrote: Tomorrow it is exactly one month until the opening of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King on December 17th. --JWR Guess I ought to get around to renting and watching _The Two Towers_, then . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] BYU Alumnus Broadcast
At 01:43 PM 11/7/03 -0900, John W. Redelfs wrote: There is a worldwide BYU Alumni satellite broadcast tonight, but I don't know the time. Is anyone here planning to attend? --JWR I didn't know that the Shuttle was even flying again, much less taking passengers, so I doubt if I'll be going to the satellite for the broadcast. -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance
At 04:19 AM 11/4/03 -0700, Tom Matkin wrote: I wish I could say that this malopropism was intentional. But I'm typing in the dark here at 4:00 a.m. and the spell checker kept telling me to change Lamanites to laminates That's what happens when a Native American with Jewish ancestry is working at a plastics plant and falls in to one of the vats . . . you get a laminated Lamanite . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Starts with F Gossip
Shouldn't someone change the subject line to Starts with Z Spelling? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: ATTN the listowner, was RE: [ZION] hi
At 12:24 AM 10/24/03 -0500, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Well, _this_ is certainly entertaining . . . At 08:48 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 09:01 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 09:32 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 10:08 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 10:13 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 10:50 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 11:02 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. (I predict it will tell us it will never see this message, either . . . ) At 01:50 AM 10/24/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. What'd I tell you? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
ATTN the listowner, was RE: [ZION] hi
Well, _this_ is certainly entertaining . . . At 08:48 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 09:01 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 09:32 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 10:08 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 10:13 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 10:50 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. At 11:02 PM 10/23/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. (I predict it will tell us it will never see this message, either . . . ) -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Marc Schindler: Very Sad News
At 01:07 AM 10/21/03 -0400, Jon Spencer wrote: Regarding the news of Marc Schindler's death: I'm saddened to hear this. I always found Marc to be great defender of the faith. Marc and I had our disagreements but I liked him. I will miss him too. Personally, I have skipped ahead looking for posts from him, hoping for a Mark Twain response. I and others received numerous posts from him dated as late as Saturday night, and he didn't say anything about any new problems, so, although I have no details, it seems as if it came on rather suddenly sometime Sunday. In fact, according to a friend of mine from BYU days who lives in his stake and worked with him on a regular basis, they had stake conference this past weekend, and she saw his bishop (who was the one who sent the original message to someone on the FARMS list which that person forwarded to another list I am on and I forwarded to Zion from there) on Sunday evening, but didn't know about it until I e-mailed her to ask if she knew about it. Has this sad news truly been confirmed? I have heard from his father, and others I know have actually talked (on the phone) to his wife, so either they're all in on the joke (Marc _does_ have a sense of humor, or humour, as it's known north of the border) or it's real. Unfortunately for us on this side of the veil, I fear it's the latter. I feel like I have been sucker punched. That was my reaction, and has been the response of several people I have heard from. -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] [mormon-l] Fwd: Very Sad News
At 02:36 PM 10/20/03 -0600, Albert Schindler wrote: This is Marc's dad, Al Schindler. I'm mostly a lurker on Mormon-L. Í'm not sure what list Craig is on, but I'll certainly make sure that he receives your condolences. As far as I know now, Marc's funeral will be this coming Thursday in Spruce Grove. Although, in a way, this news didn't come as a surprise, considering Marc's health, it's always something one is not ready for -- especially when he's your son. Al Schindler You certainly have our sympathy. * Buying books would be a good thing if one could also buy the time to read them in. -- Arthur Schopenhauer ^^^ May I say that I suspect Marc is going wild in the library up there, with no time restrictions . . . ? ;-) - Original Message - From: Ronn! Blankenship To: Mormon-L ; Mormon-L ; Mormon Thinker ; LDS-Poll ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: [mormon-l] Fwd: Very Sad News I just received the following and am passing it along for all those interested. Though shocking, given the source, I have no reason to doubt it. - begin forwarded message - To: Scripture -L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SL] FW: Marc Schindler Prominent list member Marc Schindler has passed away. His brother, Craig, is also on this list. If you see this Craig, I was so sorry to hear about this. I was worried that this might happen given Marc's recent substantial medical problems, but I was hoping that his health would improve. My deepest condolences. We received the below message at FAIR, and are forwarding it to places frequented by Marc. I hope that each of you will be able to respond as you feel approriate. I hope that each of us has the strength of character to remain active, valiant, and engaged in a good cause until the end of our days. Marc will be missed greatly by those who knew and respected him. -Allen Wyatt FAIR, VP Operations www.fairlds.org -Original Message- From: Gordon Garside [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 6:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Marc Schindler Brother Gordon: I am the Bishop of Brother Marc Schindler, and his friend. Brother Schindler passed away last evening. He was a great proponent of FAIR and gospel scholarship. The funeral will likely be this Thursday or Friday. If any would like to send a tribute they could send an email to me.If any would like to express their condolences to Marc's wife, Kathy, and their family, the address of the Schindler's is: 41 Matthew Road, Spruce Grove, Alberta, T7X 2R6. = Kevin L. Barney Hoffman Estates, Illinois [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- end forwarded message -- -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Mathematics
At 08:09 AM 10/17/03 -0600, Steven Montgomery wrote: Can one of you mathematical types out there explain the mathematical terms, positional and juxtapositional to me? The quote comes from an article entitled, Doing Business in Babylon, as found in the latest BYU magazine (See it online at: http://magazine.byu.edu/article.tpl?num=44-Fa03). Here is the quote: Quote Babylon seems to be the only civilization in ancient times that used a positional system, where the value of a number was determined by its position and not its juxtaposition. Even the Roman system is juxtapositional. /Quote I can't get the page to come up, but here's a quick answer: In our system, the value of a number is determined by its position, as 1, 10, 100, 1000 all represent different values, depending on the position of the 1 relative to the (understood) decimal point. In Roman numerals, I always represents 1, V always represents 5, etc. One could conceivably put the letters that make up the representation of a particular number in Roman numerals in almost any order, so position is not important, except combinations like for IV for 4, IX for 9, XL for 40, etc., where the juxtaposition of a smaller numeral to the left represents a decrement of the numeral on the right. Clear as mud? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
At 09:18 PM 10/15/03 -0400, Noel B wrote: Not that I would want to minimize what happened with sidewalk sleeze, but I would take it over marching into the Roman Coliseum to face the lions... old joke time And now in sports, this late score from the Coliseum: Lions 39, Saints 0 [we now return you to your regularly-scheduled substantive discussion . . .] -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
At 07:28 PM 9/15/03 -0500, Paul Osborne wrote: On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:48:07 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh! And I forgot...my husband has also literally broken his back at work...when the store was being constructed, they didn't properly cover an area where pipes and that come up to the ground...only covered it in plywood. He was walking the area in the truck bay, and thought he'd stepped around it, but when his foot hit the wood, the wood shattered, he fell and the pipes broke his fall, as well as his back. Heidi I've been cut many times, bruised, hit in the head by a fallen light pole, burned during welding, frostbitten by liquid refrigerant, shocked by 277VAC, A guy I know on another list confessed that the first week he was working as a TV service person he was trying to get a better grip on the 27 picture tube he had just removed from a customer's set when he accidentally stuck his finger in that little hole on the side of the tube and had the flyback capacitor discharge through him -- he mentioned this in response to a post where I had mentioned that the rule of thumb is that the flyback voltage on a picture tube or CRT from a monitor is about 1,000 volts per inch of diagonal measurement. In response to 27KVDC being grounded through his arm, his muscles contracted violently and he put his elbow through the customer's family room wall . . . P.S. No, I have never done that myself. In fact, the reason it came up was that I had mentioned that once when I wrote a hardware manual for a particular series of computer terminals I learned (1) that rule of thumb for the flyback voltage and (2) the proper, safe way to discharge the flyback capacitor *before* removing the tube from the chassis . . . OTOH, when I was working in the nuclear accelerator lab while an undergraduate, I was given the task of wiring an delay circuit so an alarm would sound for a certain period of time before any power went to the cyclotron so anyone who happened to be inside the vault would have time to either get out or throw the kill switch before he got zapped by radiation. One of the people who was supposed to know what he was doing drew up a circuit diagram which I was supposed to follow. I already knew enough by then to put it together with jumper cables and test it before soldering anything permanently. When I finished wiring it that way and plugged it in and flipped the switch, there was a foot-long spark and the lights in half the building went out. The professor in charge of the lab asked calmly, What happened?. flipped the circuit breaker back on, looked at the diagram I had followed, and corrected it. That time, it worked without any unexpected pyrotechnics . . . Can a male school teacher support a family with one paycheck? Must all school teachers be woman? I'm not. Of course, no one said you could support a family on my paycheck. I can barely support me and two cats on what I can manage to bring in. (And, FWIW, my house is paid for.) -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go
At 04:41 AM 9/8/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: I am now positive that if one kills himself he will end up as a telestial being. Am I right on this point? Absolutely not according to the CHI or to what General Authorities have said in General Conference. -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go
At 08:37 AM 09/08/2003 -0500, I wrote: At 04:41 AM 9/8/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: I am now positive that if one kills himself he will end up as a telestial being. Am I right on this point? Absolutely not according to the CHI or to what General Authorities have said in General Conference. At 07:04 AM 9/8/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: Okay, please provide references or explain. Stacy. I don't have the precise page numbers handy at the moment (perhaps someone else does), but the essence is that the official stance of the Church is that we are not to judge a person who has committed suicide, and that we have no specific information concerning what will happen to them in the next life. Quoting from a personal communication concerning a (apparently non-LDS) funeral director who sought information from Church headquarters about LDS funeral customs: quote Elder Packer made it clear to him that suicide is *not* held by the church to have *any* affect on the person's status, either in terms of earthly things like church records, sealing status, being buried in one's temple garments, or whatever, or--as far as we know--on one's eternal status. /quote -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] [MT] Re: Sinning Against the Light
At 04:52 PM 9/8/03 -0800, John W. Redelfs wrote: maddogpierre wrote: What do you recommend John, hanging at noon? God will deal with them, on occasion involving the Bishop and Stake President. Correct. He will. But the point I was getting at in my earlier message is that if you are not God, their bishop, or their stake president, why is it any concern of yours that they get what's coming to them, which is the impression I am getting from the topics of a number of your recent posts? Think of it this way--if the gospel is a delightsome fruit, why would people turn away from it? People have moral agency. They are free to choose between good and evil. Some choose evil. And again, unless they have hurt you directly, what concern is it of yours if they choose the wrong rather than choose the right? Your situation may be different, but most of the time it's all I can do to keep track of my own bad choices and try to do something about them, without involving myself in those of others for whom I have no specific responsibility. If I am not the bishop or stake president, about the only people I can think of whose bad choices I might should disagree with by saying something aloud would be members of my family and perhaps very close friends, and even then I should probably say no more than that I think they are making a bad choice, because, as you mentioned, they have their agency to choose. -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Sinning Against the Light
At 11:44 AM 9/7/03 -0800, John W. Redelfs wrote: DC 82:3 3 For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation. Does this scripture apply to those who have received baptism and then fallen away from the gospel? How about those who have married in the temple and then let the recommends lapse? How about Elders who have returned from missions and then become inactive? Just who was Jesus speaking to when he gave this revelation? With all due respect, John, you do seem to be preoccupied with the failings of others recently. Might I suggest, as a friend, that this may not be a good thing? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Witnessing Excommunications by Churches
At 09:21 PM 8/22/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: You imply there is a difference between disfellowshipment and excommunication. There is indeed a difference. A member who is disfellowshipped remains a member, although there are a number of things s/he is not allowed to do which a member in good standing may do. A person who is excommunicated is no longer a member of the Church and must be re-baptized in order to become a member again. -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
Why should those who follow God in this age or era expect a test which is different from that faced by people who follow God in any other age or era, if that is what you are saying? Most people do not have an opportunity to do great and special things for which their names will go down in history, but are called to do their work in their families and their neighborhoods. Or are you suggesting that only those who do some thing that earns them a place in history will qualify for exaltation? At 06:38 AM 7/17/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: I don't buy that completely as that could be the test of any age or era. Stacy. At 06:28 AM 07/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: At 07:16 AM 7/17/03 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 01:55 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, St Stacy wrote: What would such a test consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? I wonder if for many of us the test may not be being asked to endure torture or kill someone, but may be more like enduring to the end despite things such as chronic illness, handicap, poverty, loneliness, etc. . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Caral, Peru 2627 B.C.
At 08:52 PM 8/12/03 -0600, R. Kent Francis wrote: Kent Francis writes: If we look at the Bible as history, the distances involved are less than 500 miles by 100 miles and the area was inhabited by Phoenesian, Philistines, Syrians, Egyptians and other peoples in addition to the Israelites... who were at various times in their history politically fractionated. Why have we subscribed to the concept that all the native americans were Nephite/Lamanites? Probably due to the statement in the introduction to the BoM which states that they are the principal ancestors . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Luke 18:13. Again, does God work off a checklist, or does He desire a broken heart and a contrite spirit? At 08:21 PM 8/11/03 -0400, Jon Spencer wrote: He works off of a checklist. __x_ Broken heart __x_ Contrite Spirit __x_ Ordinances completed Not a member of silly email lists Oh, drat. -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
At 12:58 AM 7/13/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: It says after all we can do, not after all we do. That's not to say we don't repent and repent often. I'll give you a scenario. Suppose someone commits sin no. 760 of the day but it is a tiny thing and he hardly notices. It is certainly nothing to go to the bishop about, at least that's what he thinks. He says to himself at first, Boy, that was a very dumb thing to do. The doorbell rings. He answers the door. Then after he takes care of that the telephone rings. He takes care of that. Soon he decides to balance his checkbook. After a while he figures he'll watch a little television. Finally he may or may not remember to pray, another sin in and of itself. He forgets he hasn't confessed the sin of which he was guilty. Now what? What about many more than one like that? Finally he dies. Oops? After all he could have done? Luke 18:13. Again, does God work off a checklist, or does He desire a broken heart and a contrite spirit? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 04:04 PM 7/13/03 -0600, George Cobabe wrote: I am not sure that any personal story I could come up with would be of any interest to any of you, and of course would not be any of your concerns. However, I am personally convinced that the test will consist of what ever it takes to try you to the core of your being - not a test that will be impossible or perhaps even that much if given to another person. I believe it will consist of you needing to put the will of God ahead of everything else. Which means that you will need to know and understand the will of God. And it may be something which no one else may ever know about . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 06:48 AM 7/17/03 -0700, Bill Johnson wrote: I don't think one will know for sure that their election has been made sure until one has died. As long as we live and breathe, we are sinning. A scripture that says something to the effect of: All has sinned and has come short of the glory of God is very true. It comes down to the thought that if you are sinning, how for heavens sake cane one have their calling made sure? You can't at least in this life time. AFAIK, the only way you could know in this life is if God told you, as he did Alma: Blessed art thou, Alma, [...] Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life; and thou shalt serve me and go forth in my name, and shalt gather together my sheep. (Mosiah 26:15, 20) which might provide an answer to the question which started this thread: as far as we know from the account we have in the scriptures, did Alma start out with a checklist, or did he go about doing the will of God without thought of reward and then God surprised him one day by telling him the above? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Mars
At 10:32 PM 7/31/03 -0600, Steven Montgomery wrote: Fwiw, I asked John Pratt (Astronomer and ancient calender expert) about Mars' current brightness and its significance and here is his reply: Quote Mars will be bright but it is almost that bright every two years. That is, it is only slightly closer than usual when it is opposite from the sun. I don't think it is a sign of anything. Thanks, John /Quote So I guess that shoots my theory all to heck--doesn't it? FWIW, on this matter I agree completely with Brother Pratt. -- Ronn! :) Ronn Blankenship Instructor of Astronomy/Planetary Science University of Montevallo Montevallo, AL Disclaimer: Unless specifically stated otherwise, any opinions contained herein are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent the official position of the University of Montevallo. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 07:16 AM 7/17/03 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 01:55 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, St Stacy wrote: What would such a test consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? I wonder if for many of us the test may not be being asked to endure torture or kill someone, but may be more like enduring to the end despite things such as chronic illness, handicap, poverty, loneliness, etc. . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
Concerning 2 Nephi 25:23 . . . At 12:58 AM 7/13/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: It says after all we can do, not after all we do. Exactly. No matter how much we do, we can never do enough to save ourselves. We are all dependent upon God's grace, even after doing everything we can possibly do. Which is why I said that anyone who thinks s/he can get there by checking off items on a list is missing the point. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 10:03 AM 7/13/03 -0600, George Cobabe wrote: Come on folks - this is an easy list. You can do all of this and still have time left over for all the rest you might want to do. Your exaltation depends more upon your acceptance of the atonement, which no one has mentioned so far, than ANYTHING else you do. All the rest is fluff - important fluff - but fluff compared to the necessity for accepting and understanding the Atonement. That's what I was saying (in different words, of course). [snip] One of the points that ought to worry you that is not on your list is the idea that you will be tried to the limit of your ability. Just like Abraham was tested so you will be tested - differently but as severe. Just as others that we can list have been tested so will you. How can you expect to be in the presence of such men and women unless you have a similar heritage of proving yourself? Again, something I was trying to get at. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] hand shakes
At 07:15 AM 6/25/03 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 10:05 AM 6/24/2003 -0600, Uncle Ronn wrote: Just for clarity: not me! I'm beginning to think that perhaps people should be exposed to as many germs as possible, starting with early childhood. That way the body can build up its immune system and develop resistance to as many germs and viruses as possible. For example, I exposed my children to chickenpox when they were young (and at the best age to handle such a disease, as opposed to when they are middle aged or older and have more severe complications) and they have never had any problems since. This is what my immunologist friends tell me. Till -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] hand shakes
At 04:45 AM 6/21/03 -0500, Paul Osborne wrote: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:05:08 + Jim Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My hand shakes a lot too. Whadda ya think we oughta do about it? Stop spreading your nasty germs, Jimmyboy. ;-)) Did you know that I actually packed two cans of lysol spray on my mission to London England!? No kidding. My companion at the MTC was from New York, a real odd-ball, more so than me, in fact-- he told me he in the past had ring worm and I flipped out, arming my self with a can of lysol, I commenced to spray him down right there at bedside-- he was beside himself! You should have seen it! Boy, was I a nutcase. *Ahem.* Was?! ;-) -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] hand shakes
At 11:12 AM 6/21/03 -0600, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 10:48 AM 6/21/2003, you wrote: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:06:02 -0600 Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You ought to be even more grateful then that the mid-eastern tradition of greeting is not followed then. Why? What do they do? Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Holy (Or, I suppose unholy, depending on who is performing the action) Kiss: Luke 22: 47-48, and then Romans 16:16, 1 Cor. 16: 20, 2 Cor. 13: 12, 1 Thess. 5: 26, and finally 1 Peter 5: 14. Though even that is preferable to the type of kiss you are expected to provide in American business . . . -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter Hmm. And I just got home from telling students that the reason mathematicians do many of the things they do the way they do is that they are basically lazy and don't like to do any more work than is absolutely necessary . . . -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Royal Families
At 05:38 AM 6/20/03 -0700, Grampa Bill in Savannah wrote: Maj Tom Merrill wrote: ...according to them, some families within Israel have been singled out for greatness. That there are lineages that have been set aside to rule and reign over the rest of us. What is the opinion of the group? = Grampa Bill comments: Reading the first several answers to the Good Major's query, there seems to be near unanimity that the doctrine being taught is false. I'm not quite sure. True enough, the question is posed in such a manner as to elicit near visceral outrage, but lets look at some other aspects. First, let's get rid of that rule and reign over the rest of us line. Christ taught that to rule is to serve and set the example in washing His Apostles' feet. Seems this ruling and reigning business ain't all it's cracked up to be. Next, it is obvious there are certain families both within and outside the Chirch that rise to and remain in positions of prominence. The Smith family comes to mind immediately. Prophets, Patriarchs, Apostles, Seventies and numerous General Officers of the Church have arisen from this family over a number generations. It is not limited to the Smiths. Check the Pratts and the Youngs, the Tanners, et al. In fact, this phenomenon is so prevalent that if the doctine of Royal Blood is not true, the Church would seem to be a hot bed of nepotism. One of the great blessings one seeks is to raise up a righteous posterity. If blessings follow righteousness, one would expect to see prominence in certain families. I have read that Colonel George Reade, a prominent pre-Revolutionary War patriot, fathered a number of U.S. Presidents and a brace of General Authorities and Officers of the Church. He is also one of my ancestors and whatever prominence his descendants enjoy certainly skipped my branch and generation. I think the main thing is that certain folks, by their pre-existant and/or mortal righteousness merit having some of the great and noble spirits to be born into their posterity. I don't know that I have expressed this well, but I 'spect ther is something to this doctrine regardless of how distastefully it might have been expressed. I'm sure you're correct in what you say above. Let's look at the question again. At 09:59 PM 6/19/03 -0400, Maj Tom Merrill wrote: Folks I guess I'll turn off the lurk mode and bring up something about which I have a passionate opinion. The subject is royal families. There is someone in my stake who comes from what some would call a prominent family. They teach in church, and especially within their family, this doctrine. Seems that, according to them, some families within Israel have been singled out for greatness. That there are lineages that have been set aside to rule and reign over the rest of us. And at a few of the words of the Savior on the matter: And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way? But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who [should be] the greatest. And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, [the same] shall be last of all, and servant of all. (Mark 9:33-35) But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last first. (Mark 10:31) And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared. And when the ten heard [it], they began to be much displeased with James and John. But Jesus called them [to him], and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:35-45) I think the issue here is not whether or not some people are called to do great things in the Church, nor whether God may tell those people in advance something about the work they are called to do in order to
RE: [ZION] hand shakes
At 04:40 PM 6/20/03 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me that the tradition of hand shaking is diminishing somewhat in LSD social circles, the ones I'm in, that is. And for that, I'm quite glad. I don't want to shake hands with anyone, quite frankly. It's just a germy thing to do and it should be discontinued, in my noble opinion. Think about it; handshaking spreads germs, disease, and simply more pain to make our already miserable earth lives more miserable. So why shake hands with germy people? They put their fingers in their noses, cracks (various ones), and rub there oily skin. I simply can't stand it when I see people in church rubbing their faces, yes, and mouths--then they want to shake hands with me?? God forbid. Does anyone feel like me? I feel my complaints are noteworthy.It's a good idea to wash you hands after shaking. Wouldn't you say? Paul O Paul, maybe you should consider carrying around one of those big squirt bottle of that anti-bacterial hand gel and use it every time immediately after you shake someone's hand . . . and hope you never get called as Sacrament meeting door greeter . . . And at 11:15 AM 6/20/03 -0600, Jeffrey Ross wrote: Maybe LSD causes a hand shaking/germ phobia. I know it can cause hallucinations and such. --Jeff. Hey! I'm the smart-aleck around here! -- Ronn! :) Professional Smart-Aleck. Do Not Attempt. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Doing Lunch
At 05:25 PM 6/19/03 -0600, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 01:08 PM 6/19/2003, you wrote: At 12:16 PM 6/18/03 -0600, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 11:46 AM 6/18/2003, you wrote: I am in the SLC-Provo-Orem area for the next several days. If anyone would like to get together for lunch or something similar, give me a call at 907-465-2505. If I'm not there, leave a message and I'll call you back. I'm probably leaving the area on Monday, but that is not certain. Your friend and brother, John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't you mean 801-465-2505? ;-) Perhaps that's his cell phone. -- Ronn! :) No, it's his number he gave me to use to call him while he is in Utah County. I think he just got in a hurry, forgot, and put AK's area code in by mistake. The last couple of times I was in Utah County, I used my cell phone to call people and gave them that number to call me. Although as it turned out the morning after I arrived the first time I had to spend two or three hours fussing at the local cell phone company before they would recognize the signal from my guaranteed-to-work-anywhere-in-the-US cell phone so it would work at all in Utah . . . (Perhaps it is time for Utah to finally join the Union . . . ) -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Royal Families
At 09:59 PM 6/19/03 -0400, Maj Tom Merrill wrote: Folks I guess I'll turn off the lurk mode and bring up something about which I have a passionate opinion. The subject is royal families. There is someone in my stake who comes from what some would call a prominent family. They teach in church, and especially within their family, this doctrine. Seems that, according to them, some families within Israel have been singled out for greatness. That there are lineages that have been set aside to rule and reign over the rest of us. What is the opinion of the group? I'd find your comments interesting as well as educational. As I said, I have some rather strong feelings on this, IIRC, so did President Benson. http://library.lds.org/library/lpext.dll/ArchMagazines/Ensign/1989.htm/ensign may 1989.htm/beware of pride.htm?fn=document-frame.htmf=templates2.0 but I thought that I'd ask this »»» august ««« group. You are a month and a half too early for that. ;-) -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Royal Families
At 09:59 PM 6/19/03 -0400, Maj¹ Tom Merrill wrote: Folks I guess I'll turn off the lurk mode and bring up something about which I have a passionate opinion. The subject is royal families. There is someone in my stake who comes from what some would call a prominent family. They teach in church, and especially within their family, this doctrine. Seems that, according to them, some families within Israel have been singled out for greatness. That there are lineages that have been set aside to rule and reign over the rest of us. What is the opinion of the group? I'd find your comments interesting as well as educational. As I said, I have some rather strong feelings on this, IIRC, so did President Benson. http://library.lds.org/library/lpext.dll/ArchMagazines/Ensign/1989.htm/ensign may 1989.htm/beware of pride.htm?fn=document-frame.htmf=templates2.0 but I thought that I'd ask this »»» august ««« group. You are a month and a half too early for that. ;-) ¹BTW, what branch of the service are you in? -- Ronn! :) (former air farce ossifer) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Disney cartoon
At 03:45 PM 6/1/03 +, Jim Cobabe wrote: Grampa Bill in Savannah wrote: Jim Cobabe wrote: _Finding Nemo_ is a fun film, really entertaining and uplifting. Worth seeing. Following the fine example of one of the principals in the film, I am now learning to speak whale. === Grampa Bill comments: Read a few weeks ago that one of our mental institutions was looking for a Klingon translator. Seems that some (maybe only one) of their patients refuses (or cannot) communicate in any other language. Their might be a similar career opportunity for a whale translator.. Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah While a number of mental institutions have expressed a very strong interest in my behalf, perhaps sadly enough, they never seemed to be offering me employment opportunities. One day in a mental institution: Patient: We like you more than the last doctor we had. New Doctor: Thank you! Patient: Yes, you seem more like one of us than he ever did. -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Test
At 10:14 AM 5/31/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven Montgomery: Test. (My email has been bouncing. This is a test to see if the problems have been resolved) ___ No bounce at this end. You message landed with a solid thud. But, not to waste a perfectly good email: Many years ago at an international airport, I was in an airplane behind a British Airways airliner. We were both waiting for an airliner from another country to land before we were to depart. The other plane came in, hit solidly on the painted numbers at the end of the runway, and bounced several feet back up into the air. The second time he hit the runway it was nearly as hard, and he bounced again. The third time, with some wing wobbling, the plane finally settled down and the pilot slowed to safely taxi off the runway. Before the tower could clear the next plane for takeoff, a distinctly British voice came on the air and said, Well, that's one way of doing it. And, you know, the reason the plane bounced? It wasn't the pilot's fault, and it wasn't the co-pilot's fault, it was the asphalt . . . -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Disney cartoon
At 03:36 AM 6/1/03 +, Jim Cobabe wrote: _Finding Nemo_ is a fun film, really entertaining and uplifting. Worth seeing. Following the fine example of one of the principals in the film, I am now learning to speak whale. Doesn't that require you to be able to breathe through the top of your head? -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] From CNN: Iraqi missile targeted coalition HQ during war
Iraqi missile targeted coalition HQ during war From Henry Schuster CNN CAMP DOHA, Kuwait (CNN) --The Iraqi military came within seconds of possibly wiping out the headquarters of the coalition ground forces with a missile on March 27, U.S. military officials said. The missile was intercepted and destroyed by a U.S. Patriot missile shortly before it could have hit its target. A CNN crew embedded at ground forces headquarters witnessed the incident. The material from the crew was embargoed under an agreement with the U.S. military until major hostilities in Iraq were over. This was Saddam's decapitation strike, said CNN national security analyst Ken Robinson, part of the CNN crew embedded at ground forces headquarters. The al-Samoud missile was launched toward Camp Doha from an area just north of Basra. An analysis of the Iraqi missile's trajectory by the U.S. Army's air defense unit showed it would have landed on or near the building housing the Coalition Forces Land Component Command operations center and war room. The missile was launched during the middle of the command's morning battlefield update, a time when ground forces commander Lt. Gen. David McKiernan and other top officers were in the building. A U.S. missile battery crew based across the street from Camp Doha fired two Patriot missiles at the Iraqi al-Samoud. One intercepted it. Most of the debris landed on the edge of Camp Doha, but people working in the building next to the ground forces operations center reported hearing some debris hit their roof. Capt. Craig Schlozman was the commander of Charlie Battery that fired the two Patriot missiles. The first, he said, shot out of the canister and took a sharp left turn -- the second shot out and took a left turn -- three or four seconds later we heard the explosion. Maj. Gen. William Webster, deputy ground forces commander, said he believed the targeting was the result of intelligence gathered by Saddam Hussein's regime. We've been operating out of these two buildings that are together here at Camp Doha for 10 years. So there's been a long time for that information to get back from agents to Saddam and for him to lay that grid into his weapons systems and prepare to shoot it, Webster said. The war against Iraq began when the United States launched its own surprise missile and bombing attack against a location where it believed Saddam and members of the Iraqi high command were meeting. Webster said it was unclear when the order to fire at ground forces headquarters was made by the Iraqis. That decision may have been passed down before the war started where he told folks, 'Given this set of conditions we want you to shoot as often as you can at this building in Kuwait,' he said. There were a number of other missiles fired by the Iraqis at Kuwait, with targets including camps where coalition troops were based. One missile landed near one of Kuwait City's most popular shopping malls, injuring two people and causing some damage to the mall. Members of Army air defense operations referred to the man commanding the Iraqi launcher as Five O'clock Charlie. They know everything about him but his name, said Col. Chuck Anderson, deputy commander of the 32nd Army Air and Missile Defense Command. Just minutes after Iraqi attack, the air defense command was able to plot the location of the Iraqi launch site and two A-10 Thunderbolts already in the Basra area destroyed the missile battery. Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/29/sprj.irq.missile -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] This is what happens when governments try to ban guns
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml This is what happens when governments try to ban guns By Mark Steyn (Filed: 05/01/2003) You would think if gun control was going to work anywhere it would be on a small island. Particularly a small island at whose ports of entry the zealots of HM Customs like nothing better than performing intimate cavity searches on the off-chance you've got an extra bottle of duty-free Beaujolais tucked away up there. Surely, if you also had a Walther PPK parked out of sight, these exhaustive inspectors would be the first to notice. But apparently not. Since the Government's total ban five years ago, there are more and more guns being used by more and more criminals in more and more crimes. Now, in the wake of Birmingham's New Year bloodbath, there are calls for the total ban to be made even more total: if the gangs refuse to obey the existing laws, we'll just pass more laws for them not to obey. According to a UN survey from last month, England and Wales now have the highest crime rate of the world's 20 leading nations. One can query the methodology of the survey while still recognising the peculiar genius by which British crime policy has wound up with every indicator going haywire - draconian gun control plus vastly increased gun violence plus stratospheric property crime. What happened at that party in Aston? I don't mean what happened? in the sense of the piercing analysis of Chief Superintendent Dave Shaw, who concluded: There has clearly been some sort of dispute which has resulted in people coming to the premises with guns, discharging their weapons and causing this incident. You can't put anything over on these coppers, can you? But my question is directed at the broader meaning of the event. Chief Supt Shaw went on: We have never had to deal with anything like this. In terms of the nature of the incident, it's almost unprecedented in Birmingham. He didn't quite say Birmingham is one of those bucolic tightly-knit communities where everyone in the village knows everyone else and no one locks their doors, but you get the drift: this is some sort of bizarre aberration. I think not. When those young men decided to open fire in Birchfield Road, they were making an entirely rational decision. One reason why Chief Supt Shaw has never had to deal with anything like this is because Aston was long ago ceded to the gangs. And, if you can deal drugs with impunity and burgle with impunity and assault with impunity and use guns with impunity, who's to say you can't murder with impunity? The West Midlands Police have offered a reward of £1,000 for information leading to the arrest of those involved. Think about that: would you name a known gang member for a thousand quid? Once the funerals have been held and the media's moved on, the constabulary will go back to forgetting about Aston. But you'll still have to live there. When Dunblane occurred, all of us - even, if they're honest with themselves, the shrieking hysterics baying for pointless legislation - understood it was a freak event: a nut went nuts. It happens, and, when it does, the event has no broader implications. But what happened in Birchfield Road is of wider relevance: it's a glimpse of the day after tomorrow - not just in Aston, but in Edgbaston and Solihull and Leamington Spa. After Dunblane, the police and politicians lapsed into their default position: it's your fault. We couldn't do anything about him, so we'll do something about you. You had your mobile nicked? You must be mad taking it out. Why not just keep it inside nice and safe on the telephone table? Had your car radio pinched? You shouldn't have left it in the car. House burgled? You should have had laser alarms and window bars installed. You did have laser alarms and window bars but they waited till you were home, kicked the door in and beat you up? You should have an armour-plated door and digital retinal-scan technology. It's your fault, always. The monumentally useless British police, with greater manpower per capita on higher rates of pay and with far more lavish resources than the Americans, haven't had an original idea in decades, so they cling ever more fiercely to their core ideology: the best way to deal with criminals is to impose ever greater restrictions and inconveniences on the law-abiding. The gangs on Birmingham's streets instinctively understand this. They know, even if the Government doesn't, that the Blairite total ban, which sounds so butch and macho when you do your soundbite on the telly, is a cop-out: it makes the general population the target, not the criminals. And once that happens it's always easier to hassle the cranky farmer with the unlicensed shotgun than the Yardies with the Uzis. When you disarm the citizenry, when you prosecute them for being so foolish as to believe they have a right to self-defence, when you issue
Re: [ZION] Composing a letter to the Church
At 05:23 AM 5/28/03 -0700, Stacy Smith wrote: Producing braille materials and cassettes may be more costly in the long run than computerizing. Maybe. But do (or can) all blind people use computers? Do you have any idea what percentage of blind people are not computer literate, and if that is greater or less than the percentage in the general population? I know there are many (mostly older) people who want absolutely nothing to do with personal computers, and there are other people who cannot afford them (and cannot or will not get them from some charitable organization). I'm guessing that such people who are also visually impaired constitute a pretty-much permanent market for Braille materials and cassettes, so the Church recognizes that it will have to continue producing those products for the foreseeable future (to be uncharitable, at least until all those old fuddy-duddies who refuse to learn how to use a computer finally kick the bucket ;-b ), so they feel it would be too expensive to both keep producing those products and incur the costs of developing a new product. Also, if the Church were to discontinue Braille materials and cassettes in favor of computers, then it would probably be up to the Church to provide computers with the special equipment needed to all their members who otherwise can't afford them, and to hire people to train those who have never used computers before in how to use them, which would be a significant additional expense. Just some thoughts. -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] I'm all shook up.
At 01:44 AM 5/29/03 +0800, Mark Gregson wrote: It could have been be worse . . . Massive tsunami sweeps Atlantic Coast in asteroid impact scenario However, other calculations show that for asteriods under one kilometer in diameter the tsunami wouldn't be unbelievably massive. The US Navy did a study on explosion-produced tsunamis and concluded that the effect would not be catastrophic in any case where the blast did not go all the way down to the ocean bed. Asteroids between 100m and 1000m in diameter might only produce normal sized tsunamis. On the other hand, larger asteroids (i.e. bigger than one km. diameter) would be a global disaster. In any case, I think we could use some Preparation A . . . -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] I'm all shook up.
It could have been be worse . . . http://www.ucsc.edu/news_events/press_releases/text.asp?pid=355 May 27, 2003 Contact: Tim Stephens (831) 459-2495; [EMAIL PROTECTED] UC Santa Cruz Press Release Massive tsunami sweeps Atlantic Coast in asteroid impact scenario for March 16, 2880 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE SANTA CRUZ, CA--If an asteroid crashes into the Earth, it is likely to splash down somewhere in the oceans that cover 70 percent of the planet's surface. Huge tsunami waves, spreading out from the impact site like the ripples from a rock tossed into a pond, would inundate heavily populated coastal areas. A computer simulation of an asteroid impact tsunami developed by scientists at the University of California, Santa Cruz, shows waves as high as 400 feet sweeping onto the Atlantic Coast of the United States. The researchers based their simulation on a real asteroid known to be on course for a close encounter with Earth eight centuries from now. Steven Ward, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at UCSC, and Erik Asphaug, an associate professor of Earth sciences, report their findings in the June issue of the Geophysical Journal International. March 16, 2880, is the day the asteroid known as 1950 DA, a huge rock two-thirds of a mile in diameter, is due to swing so close to Earth it could slam into the Atlantic Ocean at 38,000 miles per hour. The probability of a direct hit is pretty small, but over the long timescales of Earth's history, asteroids this size and larger have periodically hammered the planet, sometimes with calamitous effects. The so-called K/T impact, for example, ended the age of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. From a geologic perspective, events like this have happened many times in the past. Asteroids the size of 1950 DA have probably struck the Earth about 600 times since the age of the dinosaurs, Ward said. Ward and Asphaug's study is part of a general effort to conduct a rational assessment of asteroid impact hazards. Asphaug, who organized a NASA-sponsored scientific workshop on asteroids last year, noted that asteroid risks are interesting because the probabilities are so small while the potential consequences are enormous. Furthermore, the laws of orbital mechanics make it possible for scientists to predict an impact if they are able to detect the asteroid in advance. It's like knowing the exact time when Mount Shasta will erupt, Asphaug said. The way to deal with any natural hazard is to improve our knowledge base, so we can turn the kind of human fear that gets played on in the movies into something that we have a handle on. Although the probability of an impact from 1950 DA is only about 0.3 percent, it is the only asteroid yet detected that scientists cannot entirely dismiss as a threat. A team of scientists led by researchers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory reported on the probability of 1950 DA crossing paths with the Earth in the April 5, 2002, issue of the journal Science. It's a low threat, actually a bit lower than the threat of being hit by an as-yet-undiscovered asteroid in the same size range over the same period of time, but it provided a good representative scenario for us to analyze, Asphaug said. For the simulation, the researchers chose an impact site consistent with the orientation of the Earth at the time of the predicted encounter: in the Atlantic Ocean about 360 miles from the U.S. coast. Ward summarized the results as follows: The 60,000-megaton blast of the impact vaporizes the asteroid and blows a cavity in the ocean 11 miles across and all the way down to the seafloor, which is about 3 miles deep at that point. The blast even excavates some of the seafloor. Water then rushes back in to fill the cavity, and a ring of waves spreads out in all directions. The impact creates tsunami waves of all frequencies and wavelengths, with a peak wavelength about the same as the diameter of the cavity. Because lower-frequency waves travel faster than waves with higher frequencies, the initial impulse spreads out into a series of waves. In the movies they show one big wave, but you actually end up with dozens of waves. The first ones to arrive are pretty small, and they gradually increase in height, arriving at intervals of 3 or 4 minutes, Ward said. The waves propagate all through the Atlantic Ocean and the Caribbean. The waves decay as they travel, so coastal areas closest to the impact get hit by the largest waves. Two hours after impact, 400-foot waves reach beaches from Cape Cod to Cape Hatteras, and by four hours after impact the entire East Coast has experienced waves at least 200 feet high, Ward said. It takes 8 hours for the waves to reach Europe, where they come ashore at heights of about 30 to 50 feet. Computer simulations not only give scientists a better handle on the potential hazards of asteroid impacts, they can also help researchers interpret the geologic evidence of past events, Ward said. Geologists have found
Re: [ZION] The Way The Internet Reads A Person's Lifestyle
At 10:35 PM 12/12/02 -0800, Stacy Smith wrote: Hi. Any idea why I am getting mail from vendors who: 1. Think I like wine when I don't touch a drop? 2. Think I am Fundamentalist Protestant when I'm not? 3. Send me objectionable dirty mail? 4. Want to consider me a home owner when I don't own a home? Because it is cheaper for them to spam every address they can find rather than keep records on who might actually be interested in their garbage and send it only to them. If only 1 person in 10,000 who gets a spam message replies, sending the message has paid for itself several times over. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?
At 04:15 PM 12/8/02 -0900, John W. Redelfs wrote: I haven't received any mail from the list in two days. I didn't notice this until just now because other family members have been taking their turns at the computer. The Topica people say there is no problem at their end. Is it possible that ATT Worldnet is screening out my Topica mail? Or has the list just been remarkably quiet for the last couple of days? From the bits and pieces I have been able to gather, the problem must have been at ATT, as it apparently told three list servers (but _not_ the others) that my address no longer existed. I wonder if it could have been related to the ice storm in North Carolina?--I got a notice today from a daily science newsletter that that was the reason they didn't send out an issue a couple of days last week. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Temperature conversion chart
At 09:58 PM 12/1/02 -0800, Stacy Smith wrote: How do I decrease my sensitivity to cold? Wear a sweater. Always glad to help, --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] LDS Writer Expects to Be Excommunicated
At 07:18 PM 12/1/02 -0700, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Oh. Should have added one more minor thing. BoMor is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six. No big deal, just a stylism that shows which school he belongs to. JWR might call it a Signaturi tatoo ;-) At least he doesn't prefer simply dropping the o from the more common abbreviation . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Celestial show
At 06:04 PM 11/29/02 -0700, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Yesterday morning (28/11) my wife was up early and saw the meteor of her life. A very bright greenish-white fireball that lasted for 7 seconds streaked from east to west across the southern sky. Local scientists think it hit the surface near Drayton Valley, some 50 km SW of us. From: NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/expressnews/articles/news.cfm?p_ID=3443s=e Scientists use video in search for rare meteorite By Phoebe Dey University of Alberta, Canada November 28, 2002 A University of Alberta astronomy camera captured a photograph of a blazing fireball, which may provide clues to finding a rare meteorite. If we could find the remains of the meteorite, it would be quite significant, not simply because it's another meteorite but because we would have the potential for determining its trajectory before it struck the earth, said U of A physics professor, Dr. Doug Hube. We might be able to learn where in the solar system it came from. The camera on the rooftop observatory on the U of A physics building captured the image moving from the southwest horizon to the northwest for about seven seconds at 5:10 a.m. early Wednesday morning. Hube and Martin Connors from Athabasca University are analysing the tape and using eyewitness reports to do a geometric triangulation, which will determine a more specific area to find the meteorite. Videotape from the U of A's cameras is considered the final authority. The cameras record images of the sky 24 hours a day. About once a year, the cameras capture something worth following up, Hube said. The camera is mounted above a hemispherical mirror, which allows researchers to monitor the entire sky at one time. If this latest meteorite can be found, it will offer insight to its celestial beginnings and teach us more about the larger environment we live in. Meteorites are the building blocks of the planets, Hube said. They can give us clues about circumstances in this corner of the universe 4.5 billion years ago. Understanding them gives us a broader picture to understand the formation of the solar system, to understand the formation of planets. The University of Alberta's Earth and Atmospheric Sciences department boasts a meteorite collection second only to the national one in Ottawa. It is comprised of more than 130 different meteorites--13 of which were found in Alberta. Only 50 meteorites have been found in Canada. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] CBW etc.
At 12:00 PM 11/26/02 -0700, Marc A. Schindler wrote: DRES (Defence Research Establishment Suffield) is in the news these days as it's the only place, apparently, that U.S. marines can do training with live chemical and biological agents. That is of course because they closed Fort McClellan to save money . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
At 09:51 AM 11/26/02 -0500, Jon Spencer wrote: Speaking of bathroom humor :-) This is not so humorous. Whoever came up with these don't work toilets need to be flushed down one of them! Then aren't you glad Al Gore wasn't elected President so he could force more stuff like that down our throats? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
At 05:01 PM 11/23/02 -0500, Jon Spencer wrote: Raw vegetables will cause excessive gas for about two weeks when you start eating them. This is the case for everyone that I know who has started to better their diet. But after two weeks, your gut acclimates to the veggies and you have no more problems. So the best thing is to start such a diet when you start your vacation, and by the time you're back among the people who you have to live with year-round you will be over the excessive gas emissions and they will be able to love you . . . --Ronn! :) Bathroom humor is an American-Standard. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] More tales of friendly fire
At 10:48 AM 11/21/02, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Several JTF2 units have been rotated out of Afghanistan, specifically two sniper units, 6-3-Alpha A and 6-3-Alpha B. They have some interesting stories about sharing their sleeping positions (they didn't have bags, they just slept with plant and sand camouflage) Gillie suits? with scorpions and snakes, but the worst thing they faced was US Apache helicopters, who sometimes mistook them for Taliban. But their successes made a big difference, along with those of their US and British counterparts. 6-3-Alpha's motto is one shot, one kill, and they have modified rifles that shoot steel-jacketed extra-powerful rounds that can pierce even light armour (including kevlar bulletproof shields). Is that the .50-caliber sniper rifle? (I don't know the official metric designation, but .5 inch = 12.7 mm, if that helps.) Many nights, I am the last person in the building after class ends at 9 pm and I have to put away the lab and audiovisual equipment I've used, and frequently I'm still there when whichever campus police officer got that particular duty for that night comes around to lock up the building, and, if neither of us is in a hurry, sometimes we talk for a few minutes. One night the sergeant told me that he had done something the past weekend that he thought I would have enjoyed¹: he had gone to a tactical workshop where he had been trained to fire that .50-caliber sniper rifle. _ ¹FWIW, what he meant was that I would have enjoyed the challenge of trying to hit a _target_ the size of a man's head a mile and a half away. So far, I have never pointed a weapon at a human being, much less fired one, and, God willing, I never will have any need to . . . although I did earn an expert rating with a pistol, so long as I am shooting at a man made of heavy paper . . . 2250 metres was the previous military distance kill record, set in Vietnam (official; obviously many covert successes don't make it into the book) but a Newfoundland MCpl made a 2430 m kill in Afghanistan that is apparently now the world record. The Taliban never even knew he was in anyone's scopes, and wouldn't even have heard the shot before he died. Each unit consisted of 3 men, and Mike Smith of the CBC interviewed them for an item on the news this morning (5 of them, actually -- a 6th member was seconded to them from the US Special Forces in an exchange program. Naturally he got nicknamed Zee which, I understand, is a popular brand of toilet paper in the US...). --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Leonid alert
At 07:46 PM 11/18/02, Marc Schindler wrote: For those who don't already know, tonight's supposed to be the storm of the century wrt the Leonids (the best show since the 1860s according to a local astronomer). Prime viewing time in the Mountain Standard Time Zone is 04:00 - 06:00 (well before dawn up here, which won't arrive until about 08:30), but the weather forecast is mostly cloudy -- better viewing weather in southern Alberta. Also, we have a near full moon, which may screen some of the dimmer meteorites. But I have my alarm clock set anyway! Well, the weather forecast for here turned out to be 100% correct: it is completely overcast. I could barely make out where the Moon is in the west. And these clouds are supposed to turn into the *other* kind of showers later today . . . At least there are the memories of last year's storm . . . -- Ronn! :) Ronn Blankenship Instructor of Astronomy/Planetary Science University of Montevallo Montevallo, AL Disclaimer: Unless specifically stated otherwise, any opinions contained herein are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent the official position of the University of Montevallo. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] [mormon-l] FW: 7 nukes in U.S.,warns al-Qaida
At 11:12 PM 11/15/02, Clifford Dubery wrote: What do you make of the following? Clifford M Dubery WorldNetDaily.com ^ | WorldNetDaily 7 nukes in U.S., warns al-Qaida Man claiming to be top bin Laden operative threatens to kill millions, That the news hasn't gotten down under yet that the interview was apparently a fake and the story has been withdrawn? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Social Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
At 08:43 PM 11/16/02, Marc A. Schindler wrote: The term theobromine, incidentally, comes from Greek, drink of the Gods, and was applied to chocholate in drinkable form when it was first brought to Europe. Theophylline, however, does not mean friend of the gods, as one might naively guess from the above. In fact, the theo in the latter compound is derived from tea while the same portion of theobromine is derived from the word deo or theo for a deity . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Social Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
At 09:03 PM 11/16/02, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Interesting -- I didn't know that. A case of faux amis (false cognates). So what's phylline from? The only thing I can think of, going from my limited knowledge of Greek, is type in the sense of something that's in a class of things that have something in common. (Same as the word phylum) So I would, offhand, speculate that theophylline means substances derived from tea. Is that correct? Maybe. The only etymology I have seen (in chemistry books) was for the tea theo- part. Speculation based on _my_ very limited knowledge of Greek: Is there any relation between philia (= friend) and phylum (= maybe a group of friends)? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Social Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
At 09:07 PM 11/16/02, Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Ronn- (FWIW, I've been unable to find out why there is apparently no such compound as 1,7-trimethylxanthine. Perhaps because the 1,7 and the tri prefixes are mutually exclusive? Just a guess. :) Oops. I meant 1,7-dimethylxanthine . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Social Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
At 09:29 PM 11/16/02, Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Ronn- (FWIW, I've been unable to find out why there is apparently no such compound as 1,7-trimethylxanthine. Oops. I meant 1,7-dimethylxanthine . . . Also called paraxanthine; described as an adenosine receptor ligand and a major metabolite of caffeine at http://www.sigma-aldrich.com/rbi/datasheet/a005dat.pdf Do tell. I wonder why this page never turned up before? I know there's a dead tree version of the Sigma-Aldrich catalog in the department office: I will have to look in there. I suppose that it's possible that the only listing in Merck or the CRC is under paraxanthine without any other cross-reference . . . Sigma-RBI brand products are sold through Sigma-Aldrich, Inc. Sigma-Aldrich, Inc. warrants that its products conform to the information contained in this and other Sigma-Aldrich publications. Purchaser must determine the suitability of the product(s) for their particular use. Additional terms and conditions may apply. Please see reverse side of the invoice or packing slip. Cat. No. A-005 PARAXANTHINE 1,7-DIMETHYLXANTHINE 95% purity Adenosine receptor ligand; major metabolite of caffeine. Mol. Formula: C7 H8 N4 O2 Mol. Wt.: 180.17 (anhyd.) m.p.: 297-299°C CAS Registry No.: 611-59-6 Chemical Name: 3,7-Dihydro-1,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Physical Properties: White solid. Caution: Due care should be exercised to prevent skin contact, ingestion or inhalation of this compound. RTECS No. RV938. Pharmacology: Ki = 30 mM at A1 receptors. Storage: Store tightly sealed at room temperature. Solubility: Soluble in 0.1N NaOH (2 mg/ml), water (1 mg/ml) or ethanol (0.6 mg/ml). Disposal: Dissolve or mix the compound with a combustible solvent and burn in a chemical incinerator equipped with an afterburner and scrubber. [Sounds like fun stuff . . . ] References: 1. Snyder, S.H., Katims, J.J., Annau, Z., Bruns, R.F., Daly, J.W. Adenosine receptors and behavioral actions of methylxanthines. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 78, 3260 (1981). 2. Ferre, S., Guix, T., Salles, J., Badia, A., Parra, P., Jane, F., Herrera-Marschitz, M., Ungerstedt, U., Casas, M. Paraxanthine displaces the binding of [3H]SCH 23390 from rat striatal membranes. Eur. J. Pharmacol. 179, 295-299 (1990). --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Social Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
At 09:43 PM 11/16/02, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Oh, NOW you've opened a can of worms. Recall that the only way to re-can worms after the can has been opened is to use a larger can. Ronn -- a short lecture on chemical nomenclature if you don't mind. What *do* those numbers before a chemical compound's name mean? Oy. AFAIK, this list is restricted to text-only, and this is one of those cases where a picture is worth at least 1,000 words (if not more). Short answer: the numbers in 1,3,7-trimethylxanthine, for example, indicate that methyl (CH3-) groups have replaced the hydrogens normally found at the locations on the xanthine molecule that by agreement¹ are numbered 1, 3, and 7. ¹Long answer: For the ultimate word on naming compounds, see: http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/iupac/ (Have fun!) Or ask your son to mail you his textbook when he finishes organic. And while you're at it, do we live in a left-handed world or a right-handed world, and why? Short answer: Most life on Earth uses left-handed amino acids. No one knows why. Although the amino acids found in meteorites such as the Murchison² and Allende meteorites contain a large amount of right-handed forms (suggesting a non-biological origin), there is a light excess of left-handed forms. A recent hypothesis (speculation?) I have heard is that the polarization of starlight hitting molecules in molecular clouds may preferentially destroy right-handed molecules, thus the protoplanetary disk from which those meteorites formed already contained an excess of left-handed amino acids, which may (or may not) explain why life on Earth came to be almost exclusively composed of the left-handed forms, as those were available in larger quantities. ²Did the BYU Geology Department ever locate the piece of the Murchison meteorite that was given to them back in 1979, and promptly misplaced? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Social Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
At 09:56 PM 11/16/02, Stacy Smith wrote: It shocked me to realize that coffee has theophylline in it. That's considered a medicine by doctors. I think it dilates the bronchials. Interesting. Caffeine can be used as a bronchodilator, too, and in fact was once used for that purpose. Theophylline has fewer side effects. In an emergency, though, coffee can be used by asthmatics to try to obtain some relief if nothing better is available. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Social Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
At 12:12 AM 11/17/02, Rick Mathis wrote: At 07:56 PM 11/16/2002 -0800, Stacy wrote: It shocked me to realize that coffee has theophylline in it. That's considered a medicine by doctors. I think it dilates the bronchials. Interesting. For what it's worth, I've used a couple of cans of Pepsi when I didn't have access to one of my inhalors to treat an asthma attack. It may be all in my head, but it seemed to work quite well. Tasted better than albuterol, too. How could you tell? If you like Pepsi, clearly you have no taste . . . ;-b --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 12:26 PM 11/10/02, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is Toryism, and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called Intolerable Acts? Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: Spam Street Mimes Blow-In Cards --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Chechen gas
At 09:35 PM 10/30/02, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Turns out the earlier speculation I had posted about which gas was used against the Chechen terrorists in the Moscow theatre was wrong: Russian officials are saying it was fenatyl, an opiate some 50 times more potent than morphine. Not to be confused with the similar sounding chicken gas: an equally potent vapor familiar to the downwind neighbors of poultry farmers as the aroma of poop from the coop . . . --Ronn! :) Bathroom humor is an American-Standard. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] High Priests More Active Than Elders
At 11:29 PM 10/23/02, Stephen Beecroft wrote: I do agree with at least one thing you've said: High priests are far more likely to be active than elders. Physically? ;-) --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] The T-word . . .
Am I back on-line? Better yet, am I back to stay this time, or will my machine crash again in a day or two like it did the last time? Reinstalling Windows over and over and over is _so_ much fun, especially when you have to guess each time what is keeping it from working and what has to be changed to make it work the next time, without doing worse damage . . . At least I hope I can fix the remaining problems that are causing error messages before one of them causes more serious trouble . . . No wonder they call the little arrow on the screen a cursor . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
