RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
Yep! Can't wait! My husband and I are already making plans with another couple in our branch (soon to be ward!) that we're friends with...we're going to get a sitter or two for all of the kids and then do dinner and the movie. Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11/16/2003 10:25:52 PM Subject: [ZION] The Return of the King Tomorrow it is exactly one month until the opening of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King on December 17th. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Small World of the Church
That's just too neat of a story! A real day-brightener...thanks for sharing! Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Valerie Nielsen Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11/15/2003 11:59:36 AM Subject: [ZION] The Small World of the Church I just wanted to share with you all something really neat. You know, as members of the church, it doesn't matter where we are, if we are with fellow LDS, we have a lot to talk about. It makes the world a smaller place. Inevitably, someone you meet knows someone you know, and you feel a closer connection. This is a story kinda like that. Well, way back before our wards spilt, a young couple moved into the ward. They had no children and he was there to do a three year residency at Memorial Hospital. When they found out they could not have children, they began adopting. I remember Stacy crying as she held her first baby girl, saying, She's so beautiful. I'd have taken her if she were homely, but look at her, she's just soo beautiful! They were blessed with a second daughter, and just this past month, a son. When Miles finished his residency, he set up practice here. I have always felt so close to Miles and Stacy. When Tom died, Miles was a huge source of comfort. I was extremely ill during the visitation, so I had to sit down to receive people, and Miles knelt down, held my hand, and spoke as a great priethood leader, of things not of this world, but in the world to come. Just lately, he was called as Bishop (about a month ago) for the South Bend Ward. O.K. now, I love doing genealogy. I have always loved reading histories and uncovering the mysteries we call ancestors. I especially love reading my dad's history. He died 23 years ago, so I feel close to him when I read his stuff. Last year, my sister found a legal pad that had Dad's handwritten draft of the typed history we all have. It is different from the typed version, more raw and with details he left out of the typed version for some reason. I used that handwritten version to share with my students this week, my dad's expreiences in WWII (we are doing a veteran's unit). Thursday, after I'd read this to my last class, I decided to re-read it for myself. I love to read his thoughts. Well, page 13 contained some notes he scribbled. It was obviously his notes for the section he called the Fabulous Fifties. It was during the 50's that he married my mom, had most of us kids, and joined the church. (as a side note, Orrin Hatch was one of my parent's missionaries). Anyway, one of the little notes said, 7 Dec 1957 Pat. Blessing, Reed Andrew, Detrioit Stake. Now, I have seen my dad's patriarchal blessing numerous times. I love reading over it. What I had never connected, is that his patriarch, Reed Andrew, didn't have an 's' on the end of his name. (connecting point here) This is the same as Miles and Stacy Andrew. As it turns out, Reed is Miles's grandfather! Stacy said that Reed is the one who sealed them when they were married--that he was a sealer in Salt Lake, and got special permission to fly to Chicago to seal them. How cool is that! Reed has since passed, but think about this; when my parents were baptized, they lived in Ohio. What are the odds, that in Northern Indiana, some 46 years later, descendents of early midwest saints would connect like this. Gotta love the TRUE church. val .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Introducing Gary Smith
LOVE the suggestion, Gary! We're only 6 hours from Nauvoo...let's plan on it! Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Valerie Nielsen Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11/15/2003 11:24:49 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Introducing Gary Smith On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:33:16 -0500 Gerald Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I look forward to meeting those in the Indiana/Midwest area. What I would love, is for us to plan a Nauvoo reunion get-together next summer. Meet on a Saturday, go to a session, then dinner/lunch, and walk around the sites. Who's interested? I'm going to be pushing this from now until we organize something. Count me in. May I suggest the Nauvoo State Park as a gathering place (if they get the showers opened) for those wanting to stay the night (or two). Camping is fun and, for me, cheap. My sons and I stayed there this past summer and it's right in Nauvoo. The summer prior we stayed someplace else, farther away. It's not too far (a couple hours?) from Dyersville, Iowa, where the movie _Field of Dreams_ was filmed. That's a really neat site. Basically untouched since the movie. Anyway, picture a campfire, with s'mores, great conversation and Zionisti, on the banks of the Ole Mississippi, at sunset. It's beautiful. val All of you are welcome to use my home as a central pad for visiting the Church sites (or other visits). We're 5-6 hours from Nauvoo and Kirtland, and 8 hours from Independence Mo and Palmyra. K'aya K'ama, Gerald (Gary) Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, Family History, Food Storage, etc. / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Soccer Rules!
I would MUCH rather watch a soccer game (or lacrosse game...or hockey game...) than watch basketball. I can't STAND basketball! Watching it is, for me, like being in the same room with a person who is running their fingernails down a blackboard. And... not only is basketball a terrible sport, in my opinion, but the players - in addition to being freaks of nature - are spoiled brats who make way too much money for what they do. Of course, there are many players of other sports who are spoiled brats, also, but it seems to me that basketball players are amongst the worst of the lot. Soccer, lacrosse and hockey are such exciting games, and even more so when one understands the rules strategy. One of my sisters plays on a co-ed soccer team in the Washington DC area. Recently, she got a yellow card (a foul, in other words); the ref made what my sister felt to be a terrible call and so, as she walked past him, she muttered moron under her breath. The ref heard her and gave her a yellow card. That's my Kimi! Just my 2 cents worth... Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Rusty Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11/13/2003 11:45:15 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Soccer Rules! Soccer in my personal opinion requires a lot more of everything than almost any other sport, and with all due respect to foot ball fans, there is no comparison between the two in terms of the physical and mental demands-- soccer wins easily; foot ball-- the players get to take all sorts of breaks. soccer-- you run the whole time, 45 minute? halves and don't have the benefit of protective padding like our football players do. if you can't crawl off the field due to an injury, they will stop the game long enough to get you out of the way, and then it's back to the game :) while it is true that normal size people can play soccer- for example, i was chief bench warmer on my college team- to make any headway in the sport, you have to be good. the rest of the world plays soccer like we play baseball-- they are crazy about it. a few months ago we had a demonstration womanes game (I think) here in Seattle-- people flew in from Europe by the 1000's to see the game, and it was not even a league game ! if you really want to drive dull nails into your head-- well, that's your choice, but personally, I find soccer a lot more fun to watch than baseball or football. instead of nails, try flaming bamboo splinters under your fingernails :) just my opinion. Bob Taylor From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't feel the way you do about football, soccer and baseball. Professional football in this country cannot be played by ordinary people. They have to be giants. It is the same way with basketball: the best players are virtually freaks. But normal sized people can play soccer. -- Exactly my point. Soccer is a wimpy sport that anyone can play. Well, almost anyone. I'm so wimpy I probably couldn't play it. -- As for baseball, well... when my kids all got stuck out in right field while the coaches kid got to be pitcher I learned that baseball, softball actually, wasn't much of a sport except for a favored few. When I put my kids in soccer they all got to play their guts out every minute that they were in good enough shape to play. -- Grampa Bill never let any of us kids play sports. He thought that we wouldn't study if we were playing. I guess I showed him. I didn't study anyway. :-) At the time I wasn't too concerned about not playing sports, but now I wish I had done something. I will admit that those who play soccer seem to have a good time. I personally don't see how you can call it shooting when the kicked ball goes no where near the goal. So I will grant you a point on soccer perhaps being a fun game to play. But I think I would rather drive dull nails into my temples than to have to sit through watching a soccer match. Cousin Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right. When wrong, to be put right. -- Carl Schurz /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // ** There are no coincidences, only small miracles. Author Unknown ** // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// ///
Re: [ZION] Tell Heidi
I have just LOVED the discussion on this subject! This is great! Thanks, one and all, for your input. It really helped me out. Now, somewhat further on this - and not to toot my own horn, but here goes...the branch we have moved into has had 51 baptisms thus far during 2003, and a good many of them have been retained. What a wonderful time to be here. I do know for a fact that things are underway to turn this branch into a ward. Back in August, an absolutely GOLDEN family were baptized...father, mother and one of the children who was old enough. This past Sunday, I watched all three of that family's children do an outstanding job participating in the Children's Sac Mtg program. I am the wife's visiting teacher and I am really enjoying getting to know her and her family. Not only do I want to be her visiting teacher but her friend as well. I make a point to sit next to her in Relief Society. This Saturday, our branch has a baptismal trip to the Louisville Temple. She asked me about it because she thought that they had to wait a year to go to the temple at all. I was pleased to be able to explain to her that she and her husband (who is currently serving as an adviser in the YM) can both go and participate, and then I offered to keep their kids for the day so they can go. I'm so excited about it! My kids are excited, too. I wish I could go along with them, but the time for that will come late next summer. :-) When my husband returns from Los Angeles (he's been out there a few weeks thanks to the grocery strike...he comes home Sunday night), we plan to have them over for supper. We'll probably do it on a Sunday and have them come over in the afternoon so we can have plenty of time to get to know them better. It's an absolutely wonderful thing to be in on something like this. Not only am I helping in the Lord's work, but I'm gaining friends and that's always a good thing in my book. I think that this family has the desire to know more about the gospel and they are doing their part to learn. But it does help to have friends in the branch/ward, to help them with the practical application of gospel principles in their lives. Just my thoughts... Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/27/2003 11:36:26 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Tell Heidi Gerald Smith wrote: A few years ago, they heard the discussions but chose not to join, because they didn't want to lose their old traditions/friends/habits. A year or so later, they took the discussions again. This time, the branch president assigned the members to take a turn having this investigator family into their homes each Sunday for dinner after Church. We take turns having the missionaries over for dinner. Why can't we take turns hosting the new members in our homes? The members ought to do it spontaneously, but if they don't, perhaps the leaders should organize something like we do with the missionaries. I really believe that having new members over to the house is the key to keeping them active. And we shouldn't feel a need to provide a lavish sit-down dinner when we have new members over. Just a bowl of buttered popcorn or a dish of ice cream would do. I mean, what do we do with our friends? John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior. --Boyd K. Packer === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Sorry About That
Oh *sure*...that's what they *all* say! ;-) Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/24/2003 8:40:06 AM Subject: [ZION] Sorry About That Sorry about the autoresponse to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've turned it off, and you won't see it again. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] strengthening new converts
Just this evening, I was asked to teach the lesson in Relief Society this Sunday. The lesson is the Teachings for our Time #9, Strengthening New Converts. I have yet to read the conference addresses the outline mentions, however, I have a few questions for you out there - and be forewarned that I might want to use some or all of your responses in my lesson... What have you done to help strengthen a new convert (or new converts, as the case may be)? For those of you who have been new converts...what has been done by others that has helped strengthen you? What didn't help you? Any and all thoughts on this subject would be very much appreciated by me! :-) Thanks in advance! Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
I have heard that it *is* true, unfortunately. I wouldn't want to be any of those Baptist dudes when the time comes that they have to account for their actions... Heidi [Original Message] From: Grampa Bill in Savannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/15/2003 6:27:31 AM Subject: [ZION] Breaking the charter? Dear ones, I received the following by email. It probably violates the charter for me to forward it... but does anyone know the truth of this? I am incensed! === HOW ABOUT TOLERANCE FOR ALL? Some Muslims wear sacred clothing. So do some Jews. The same for Native Americans and some Hindus and others. Bits of cloth or string that are physical reminders of God and his bond with man. Sacred things, really, prayer shawls or beads, head coverings or aprons, medicine bags. Things that are special to people, honorable and good things. Things that should be respected. One would not, for example, rip the yarmulke from a Jewish man's head and mockingly fling it like a Frisbee. Nor would you wear a yarmulke as a spoof or joke. Certainly not as an attack on Judaism. Not as a mockery of Jews and their faith. Yet something like that happened this weekend. In front of thousands of people in one of America's great cities. An act of religious desecration, bigotry and discrimination. And the perpetrators boast of it to the press. It was in Salt Lake City. And it was against Mormons. And somehow that makes it acceptable. Here's what happened. Over the weekend, Mormons gathered for what they call general conference. It is a twice-a-year meeting that draws tens of thousands to Salt Lake City and is broadcast around the world to an audience in the low millions. It is a worship service. It is sacred and special to them. And each year it is protested. So-called Christian evangelists stand on the sidewalk outside the Mormon meetings and shout rude condemnations of the religion to the thousands who pass in and out. It is an odd spectacle, unmatched in American society. To think that crude protesters would stand outside a mosque or synagogue, or a cathedral or church, and harass worshipers and denounce a religion is just beyond the pale. It is an act of indefensible religious bigotry. And yet it happens, and is often applauded and boasted of. This column started with a mention of sacred clothing. Well, Mormons have sacred clothing, too. Like a variety of religious garments, it is worn against the skin. It is a type of underclothing. They don't talk about it. They don't show it to people. They keep it sacred. Like virtually all-religious clothing, it is a specific reminder of promises made to God. Like virtually all religious clothing, it is precious and significant to the people who wear it. Well, Sunday the evangelists had some. Maybe six guys, Baptist ministers, mocking the Mormons as they came out of a meeting. Shouting rude things to people coming out of church. And they had these sacred garments. And one supposed minister of the gospel was wiping his backside with them, laughingly treating them like toilet paper as thousands who held them sacred walked by. Can you see that being done to a prayer shawl in front of a Synagogue, or a prayer rug in front of a mosque? Wouldn't all decent people publicly denounce that sacrilege? He also draped them around his neck, and pretended over and over to sneeze into them. And loudly blow his nose into them. While families and children walked past. Stop for a moment. Lay aside what you do or don't think about Mormons. But was that right? More to the point, was that Christian? Is that what Jesus would do? Is that what any decent person of any faith would do? Absolutely not. It is wrong, bigoted and un-American. No matter who it's against. It was an affront. It smelled like the bigotry of the Klan and the Third Reich. And yet the ministers boasted of it to reporters and posed for pictures and no one in the Utah or American religious, media or civil rights communities has condemned it. And, oddly, two worshipers were taken away in handcuffs. One man, dressed in his church clothes, walked past in the crowd, saw the insults and desecrations, and grabbed the piece of clothing. To protect it. He was charged with robbery and taken to jail. Half an hour later another worshiper similarly grabbed a molested garment and attempted to take it away. He was unsuccessful and waiting police stepped in to take him into custody. And that's the world we live in. You are harangued for your beliefs and arrested for defending them. And the bigotry of our society is illustrated by how selectively we practice tolerance. - by Bob Lonsberry C 2003
RE: [ZION] Forgiveness of Serious Sins by Individual Members
Stacy, A few thoughts about your question...As tempting as that might be, and as justified as we think it might be, I kindly refer you to Doctrine Covenants 64:10 which reads: I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men. This isn't easy for me personally, but I find it helps to remind myself that I will be shown as much mercy as I have shown others, and I myself need a lot of mercy shown to me. Another thought...Us forgiving someone isn't so much for the person who has done something against us, but for us. If we don't forgive, we carry around that grudge - or whatever you want to call it - and that hurts us, not the other person. One more thought...go to the Topical Guide of the scriptures, to the entry Forgive, Forgiveness and just read the scriptures it mentions. Don't count on what I have to say...see what the Lord has said. If you need to find out more about it, find what has been said in recent General Conference addresses on the subject. I always find those helpful. Just my two cents worth... Heidi [Original Message] From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/10/2003 12:50:06 AM Subject: [ZION] Forgiveness of Serious Sins by Individual Members Is it all right to make forgiveness of serious sins conditional? For example, I'll forgive you if you are willing to join this church. Stacy. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Ward and Stake Web Pages
I wish our stake had one of those web pages...I can see how it would be extremely useful! Last time I checked, our stake didn't have one. Heidi [Original Message] From: Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/9/2003 1:47:37 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Ward and Stake Web Pages I log in regularly (usually at least daily), and have done so for a few years. Our stake was one of the first 12 to be the guinea pigs. It is quite useful. Jon - Original Message - From: Lew Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: zion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:48 AM Subject: [ZION] Ward and Stake Web Pages Has anyone login to a Stake or Ward Web Page? They can be found at: http://www.lds.org/units/find/0,12831,2311-1,00.html -- Lew -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Thoughts On Diet
Yeah, sweet potatoes are sweet, but they contain complex carbohydrates as opposed to the simple carbohydrates in white potatoes. So, one's blood sugars will rise, but more slowly, and those blood sugars hold steady for a longer period of time, and that makes it easier to regulate your blood sugars. Or, so I read in a health newsletter. (and, by the way, my sweet potato was really good last night!) Heidi [Original Message] From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/3/2003 3:10:53 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Thoughts On Diet That's odd! Sweet potatoes are so sweet! Stacy. At 04:44 PM 10/02/2003 -0500, you wrote: I've read that sweet potatoes are even better for diabetics than white potatoes. Something about the sugars breaking down less easily and thus keeps the blood sugar levels at a more sustained amount as opposed to the spike and drop you get with the levels thanks to white potatoes. My husband and I both like them. We top them with cinnamon and they are VERY tasty! We like to have them with a nice steak or grilled chicken breast...mmm! Making me hungry! I guess it's a good thing we're meeting friends of ours (who are from out of town) tonight for supper at the Texas Roadhouse Steakhouse. I think I know what I'm having... Heidi the hungry [Original Message] From: R. Kent Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/2/2003 9:28:50 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Thoughts On Diet Kent clarifies: We don't remove ALL carbs as some have reported that the brain goes into stupid mode if it doesn't get some... we try to keep to less than 40 carbs (looking at a lot more labels now) mixed with major protein. Some carbs are better than others... Potatoes turn into 95% sugar while rice is only 55% converted. Beans are less than that. My doctor suggested that a few carbs for breakfast can be good so suggested we eat raw oatmeal(not cooked) with fruit and non-fat milk for breakfast... It goes right thru without being absorbed. At lunch I usually have chili (I like Cattle Drive) with a can of roast beef dumped in, with cottage cheese and a lettace wedge, and for supper a nice steak/chicken/fish with extra vegetables and a green salad. Sometimes Judy mixes up some jello no-sugar pudding with a few sliced strawberries ontop for dessert or a fresh pear. We were big ice cream fans so switched to Blue Bunny with a little fresh fruit instead of all the sauces. Judy makes the best pies in the world so it is a big sacrifice in that regard, but our tastes have changed dramatically and we find it easy to just say no and have a fresh apple instead. Stacy Smith wrote: You know, the more I think about it, I didn't quite experiment that way before. I had only protein for two meals and carbs for a third meal. But what is being proposed would be very hard to live with but I guess I'd have to find a tasty way. I don't remember God opposing bread and such, especially whole wheat, and diabetic educators never tell people to eliminate pasta, potatoes or rice from the diet, but if it means never going on dialysis or insulin I might have to try it. I don't know what I'd do about the traditional birthday, Christmas and Thanksgiving celebrations but they would be very few and far between. It's back to taste, I suppose, since I have a hard time tolerating most vegetables but not all. Stacy. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// / / /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// / / /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Re: [ZION] Thoughts On Diet
I've read that sweet potatoes are even better for diabetics than white potatoes. Something about the sugars breaking down less easily and thus keeps the blood sugar levels at a more sustained amount as opposed to the spike and drop you get with the levels thanks to white potatoes. My husband and I both like them. We top them with cinnamon and they are VERY tasty! We like to have them with a nice steak or grilled chicken breast...mmm! Making me hungry! I guess it's a good thing we're meeting friends of ours (who are from out of town) tonight for supper at the Texas Roadhouse Steakhouse. I think I know what I'm having... Heidi the hungry [Original Message] From: R. Kent Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/2/2003 9:28:50 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Thoughts On Diet Kent clarifies: We don't remove ALL carbs as some have reported that the brain goes into stupid mode if it doesn't get some... we try to keep to less than 40 carbs (looking at a lot more labels now) mixed with major protein. Some carbs are better than others... Potatoes turn into 95% sugar while rice is only 55% converted. Beans are less than that. My doctor suggested that a few carbs for breakfast can be good so suggested we eat raw oatmeal(not cooked) with fruit and non-fat milk for breakfast... It goes right thru without being absorbed. At lunch I usually have chili (I like Cattle Drive) with a can of roast beef dumped in, with cottage cheese and a lettace wedge, and for supper a nice steak/chicken/fish with extra vegetables and a green salad. Sometimes Judy mixes up some jello no-sugar pudding with a few sliced strawberries ontop for dessert or a fresh pear. We were big ice cream fans so switched to Blue Bunny with a little fresh fruit instead of all the sauces. Judy makes the best pies in the world so it is a big sacrifice in that regard, but our tastes have changed dramatically and we find it easy to just say no and have a fresh apple instead. Stacy Smith wrote: You know, the more I think about it, I didn't quite experiment that way before. I had only protein for two meals and carbs for a third meal. But what is being proposed would be very hard to live with but I guess I'd have to find a tasty way. I don't remember God opposing bread and such, especially whole wheat, and diabetic educators never tell people to eliminate pasta, potatoes or rice from the diet, but if it means never going on dialysis or insulin I might have to try it. I don't know what I'd do about the traditional birthday, Christmas and Thanksgiving celebrations but they would be very few and far between. It's back to taste, I suppose, since I have a hard time tolerating most vegetables but not all. Stacy. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Items for Diabetics (was: Thought for the day)
Stacy, Speaking as the wife of a grocery store manager, I know that my husband is always willing to at least check to see if he can get products ordered in for customers. Much of the time, he can indeed have things ordered in special for customers. Sometimes, things just aren't available in our area. May I ask where you live? What's the name of your local supermarket? If your supermarket is part of the same family of stores that my husband works for, they should be more than happy to help you. If I were you, on my next trip to the store, I would ask to speak to the manager. Tell him or her what you're looking for and ask if they have those things. If they do, they should be more than willing to help you locate those items. If they don't carry those items, ask if those things can be ordered in. If the manager needs UPC code numbers and names of products to have ordered in, let me know and I'll get those for you. If the store manager is not willing to help you, ask for their toll-free customer help line (most chains have one) and inform them of your needs and concerns. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know. Good luck! Heidi [Original Message] From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/30/2003 12:00:33 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Thought for the day I want to know more about how to get more diabetic products because I can't find them in my local supermarket. Stacy. At 03:01 PM 09/30/2003 +, you wrote: That IS a nice thought (even for a diabetic). And, nope, I didn't get that post. And it is strange how far off-topic we got. Who knows where it will lead this time? (Does anyone else have this problem -- beginning sentences with conjunctions? I never had this habit until after studying the Book of Mormon.) *jeep! ~~Chet If ya thinks ya is right, ya deserfs credit - even if ya is wrong. Gus Segar via Popeye -- Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I started out this thread with a thought for the day, to wit: Sent 9/21: Thought for the Day: A nice box of chocolate can provide your entire daily intake of calories in one place. Isn't that handy? Jon The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thought for the day
Works for me! Especially if it's Dove or Lindt chocolate! By the way, Job...aren't you in North Carolina? If so, did you sustain any damage from Isabel? Heidi [Original Message] From: Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: zion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/21/2003 9:12:31 PM Subject: [ZION] Thought for the day Thought for the Day: A nice box of chocolate can provide your entire daily intake of calories in one place. Isn't that handy? Jon // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thought for the day
Hey, it's Monday...it's rainy...I didn't use my spellchecker... :-) Heidi (who almost just typo'ed her own name!) [Original Message] From: Elmer L. Fairbank [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/22/2003 9:53:07 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] Thought for the day At 09:38 AM 9/22/2003 -0500, the amazing Heidi the Fair wrote: Works for me! Especially if it's Dove or Lindt chocolate! By the way, Job...aren't you in North Carolina? If so, did you sustain any damage from Isabel? Heidi is now in correspondence with a real hero. Shall we all sit and give him comfort? Just picking, Heidi 8)) I hope Jon faired better temporally than his typo-namesake. May we all fare as well as he in other matters, however. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Crying Babies
I was able to do this with my own kids, though it was hard at first. When our first child was born, we were given a book, the title of which went something like How to help your child sleep through the night, or words to that effect. It was written by a Dr. Ferber out of Boston, and he advocated this system when helping babies learn to sleep through the night. He promoted a graduated system...First night - address needs, and then when baby started to cry, go in after 5 minutes, reassure and then leave. Wait 10 minutes, reassure. Wait 15 minutes, reassure...and so on at 5 minute intervals until baby fell asleep. The second night, don't start going in until after 10 minutes, and go in at 10 minute intervals. Third night, 15 minutes, etc... The idea was that baby would know you were there but would be given time to fall asleep by itself (sans soother, binky, pacifier or whatever you want to call it). It took each of my kids about 3 days to learn to fall asleep by themselves; once they learned this, life was much easier for everybody! Heidi [Original Message] From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/22/2003 9:43:01 AM Subject: [ZION] Crying Babies Once all possible needs have been addressed, there is something satisfying about letting a baby cry until she finally gives it up. The sisters are not especially good at this, but I can do it just fine. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Thought for the day
Stacy, My husband is diabetic also, and he buys the candies with sucralose all the time. There are some made by Russell Stover, Cadbury's Turtles, and now I'm seeing some done by Reese's (is that Hershey's?). I've seen them at Walmart, Target Kroger, and I'm sure they are carried at other stores, as well. My husband does say that they aren't the best for diabetics, but if you're really craving the taste of chocolate, they are good to have on hand. Also, the box does warn against eating too many at a time. Because the body doesn't process the sucralose, I imagine it causes plumbing problems. My husband might eat one every couple of days. I've tried them and they aren't bad at all. My favorites are the coconut chocolate concoctions by Russell Stover's. Heidi [Original Message] From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/22/2003 5:31:29 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Thought for the day Where does one get it? Are these candies? Stacy. At 04:38 PM 09/22/2003 -0400, you wrote: Stacy Smith wrote: No, what is it? (sucralose) Sucralose is the trade name for the stereoisomer of normal sucrose (table sugar). It tastes the same as regular sugar, but is not processed by the body. Your taste buds can't tell the difference (but perhaps your pocketbook can!). If I remember my organic chemistry correctly, table sugar is R-sucrose and Sucralose is L-sucrose. So, you see, diabetics can partake of the handy one-box-holds-all chocolate diet! Jon /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
Well, there IS a way to follow prophetic counsel AND work where there is a husband in the home...and it looks like I'm about to embark upon it. I'm going to start doing child care in my home, so I'll be at home with my own children yet bringing in income. I'm also considering giving piano lessons from my home. And I'm also considering taking night classes in medical transcription (I have work experience from my college years in it, but I need to sharpen my skills and there is a program near my home) so that I do that from home. I have a friend from high school, who is LDS and lives in Arizona. She and her husband have 4 children, and though she is trained in other things, she took a course in medical transcription so that she could work from home, and she gets paid very well for her work, which is part time. Now, Jim, you have to admit that there are circumstances when a woman HAS to work outside the home. Val in Mishawaka has to...she is a widow; her family depends on her. The time may come when I will have to...my husband will likely be unable to work due to physical disability in the next 5 years. I really should be doing more to prepare to support my family, but right now I feel like I should be at home. I will, in the next year, probably be taking part time college courses to finish up my last year of bachelor's degree work. We hope to eventually transfer to Louisville, and then I can go to law school, which I've always wanted to do. Once my husband becomes unable to work, we will likely move east, closer to my parents (and a bit closer to his family, too), to have the help support of family. Be careful, Jim, of painting all LDS working women with the same brush. Heidi [Original Message] From: Jim Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/19/2003 9:12:23 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] working woman With regard to applying prophetic counsel, where is the line between personal prerogative and inspiration, and personal apostasy? 2 Sam 6:6-7 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. I note that in the original ark-steadying incident, it would certainly appear that the imperative of the moment was a more important consideration than any more formal rules. When do such considerations assume overriding priority? What about testing the Lord's word? Do we give an honest try to obeying prophetic counsel, then abandon that when we have decided that our circumstances warrant some other course of action? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a white-collar job and supervises what you would call blue-collar workers. However, many of those blue-collar workers make much more money than my husband does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband is white collar, but I have to work, too. Heidi [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman Gordon B. Hinckley, Women of the Church, Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her place. -- There are many woman who have to work because their husbands are blue collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is MANY that HAVE to work. I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are NOT following the counsel and example of the prophet! It is the white collar men that have oppressed the blue collar men since this world began and the day will come when that will no longer be the case. Finally, if you self righteous white collar brethren don't like what I'm saying-- then shove it where the sun don't shine! :-((( so blahhh to you! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
The situation Ronn describes is similar to ours. I do the haircuts in the family myself, except for mine and then I only go about twice a year - sometimes only once a year - to those cheapo haircut places where I only spend about $12. For the kids' clothes, I shop rummage sales secondhand stores and buy things on clearance. I only buy clothes for myself once in a blue moon; I bought some clothes last fall. Most of what I wear is either gifts from my mom or secondhand from my mom. I do have some things I bought on clearance...I paid $3 for my one pair of jeans at an outlet store. We have to spend a bit more on my husband's clothes; he has to wear a shirt tie every day. He is, however, in dire need of shoes. He did not have a suit until this weekend. We had to buy one because he has a work function coming up in a few weeks at which a coat tie is required for the men. We found a $300 suit at an outlet that we paid $130 for. I thought that was pretty good. Last week, someone slashed my husband's tires (a bunch of people in our neighborhood had that happen to them) and so the cheapest set of tires we could get for his truck ran us $350 which includes free lifetime tire rotation. The free lifetime rotation is important because my husband feels that's important. That's how he managed to get 87,000 miles out of this set that got cut - we were going to have to replace them soon, anyhow. At the same time, I need to be out in the workplace because we realistically are looking at my husband becoming disabled in the next few years due to him being a brittle diabetic. I am going to become the sole support of my family soon, and so I'm getting back into the workplace now so that I can get more experience. Criticize me if you must, but first walk a mile in my shoes... Heidi [Original Message] From: Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/14/2003 8:45:28 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] working woman At 09:04 PM 9/14/03 -0400, Noel B wrote: And why are they working? To get that second car, or the boat or the bigger house??? Or occasionally to keep the family from falling any further behind when taxes of various sorts frequently take up the first 50% of everyone's income, gas is over $2.00 a gallon, the first car costs $20,000 (or if you buy a used one to save money, it's always in the shop) and a basic house over $100,000, and many people are living paycheck to paycheck not by choice or because they are profligate, and an unexpected medical bill or something can wipe you out, and your job could end tomorrow without any warning . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
Val, I'm sorry...when I said spoiled, I meant only the ones that my husband has had to deal with. That being said, he can (and does when his employees call in) do everything they can do. When he's shorthanded, he will often unload a truck. When the freezers and coolers break down, he fixes them (I can tell you that I'm getting to be quite an expert at getting oil grease out of his dress shirts!). When a customer wants a cake decorated after the bakery people go home, he decorates it (he's also a chef). He does have to be careful in doing these things, however, because the union can - and does - grieve him doing these jobs because they are union jobs. Meanwhile, the union employees aren't doing them, or they've called in sick or something...the jobs have to get done and my husband has to pick up the slack. Again, I'm sorry...I didn't mean to offend. Heidi [Original Message] From: Val [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/15/2003 8:26:57 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a spoiled? blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! val -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a white-collar job and supervises what you would call blue-collar workers. However, many of those blue-collar workers make much more money than my husband does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband is white collar, but I have to work, too. Heidi [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman Gordon B. Hinckley, Women of the Church, Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her place. -- There are many woman who have to work because their husbands are blue collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is MANY that HAVE to work. I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are NOT following the counsel and example of the prophet! It is the white collar men that have oppressed the blue collar men since this world began and the day
Re: [ZION] working woman
Oh! And I forgot...my husband has also literally broken his back at work...when the store was being constructed, they didn't properly cover an area where pipes and that come up to the ground...only covered it in plywood. He was walking the area in the truck bay, and thought he'd stepped around it, but when his foot hit the wood, the wood shattered, he fell and the pipes broke his fall, as well as his back. Heidi [Original Message] From: Val [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/15/2003 8:26:57 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a spoiled? blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! val -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a white-collar job and supervises what you would call blue-collar workers. However, many of those blue-collar workers make much more money than my husband does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband is white collar, but I have to work, too. Heidi [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman Gordon B. Hinckley, Women of the Church, Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her place. -- There are many woman who have to work because their husbands are blue collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is MANY that HAVE to work. I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are NOT following the counsel and example of the prophet! It is the white collar men that have oppressed the blue collar men since this world began and the day will come when that will no longer be the case. Finally, if you self righteous white collar brethren don't like what I'm saying-- then shove it where the sun don't shine! :-((( so blahhh to you! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up
Re: [ZION] working woman
I, too, would also like decent health care for my family, but we pay more and get less coverage than the union employees do. He doesn't get overtime. They do. He doesn't have any recourse when he doesn't like how he's being treated by his bosses. They do. All they have to do is grieve whatever clause in their contract they feel is being violated. What recourse does my husband have? He has been told by HR people that, as a white male, he legally has no recourse for anything. Heidi [Original Message] From: Val [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/15/2003 8:26:57 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a spoiled? blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! val -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a white-collar job and supervises what you would call blue-collar workers. However, many of those blue-collar workers make much more money than my husband does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband is white collar, but I have to work, too. Heidi [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman Gordon B. Hinckley, Women of the Church, Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her place. -- There are many woman who have to work because their husbands are blue collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is MANY that HAVE to work. I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are NOT following the counsel and example of the prophet! It is the white collar men that have oppressed the blue collar men since this world began and the day will come when that will no longer be the case. Finally, if you self righteous white collar brethren don't like what I'm saying-- then shove it where the sun don't shine! :-((( so blahhh to you! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up
Re: [ZION] working woman
One more thing (every time I read this email, I think of something else)...you don't know what working conditions my husband has. You really don't, and you shouldn't presume to judge them. I didn't make clear in my first email that I was referring to only the employees my husband has to deal with, and I'm sorry about that. He doesn't even have mandated breaks, yet the union employees do. And if they don't get their 10 minute smoke breaks RIGHT ON TIME, they're screaming and they file a grievance. I can't tell you how many times I bring him something for supper because he's working 7 am to 10 pm, and he's lucky to get 3 minutes to gulp down a sandwich. Just this past Saturday, he actually had a day off (after working 10 days straight) and we went in to get groceries. We couldn't get through the store without them paging him to deal with a customer...and the girl at the front desk got huffy when I pointed out that it was his day off. That's just the tip of what we're dealing with here...we're not protected by a union contract. Heidi [Original Message] From: Val [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/15/2003 8:26:57 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a spoiled? blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! val -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a white-collar job and supervises what you would call blue-collar workers. However, many of those blue-collar workers make much more money than my husband does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband is white collar, but I have to work, too. Heidi [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman Gordon B. Hinckley, Women of the Church, Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her place. -- There are many woman who have to work because their husbands are blue collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is MANY that HAVE to work. I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out
RE: [ZION] Temple Defilement
A bunch of years ago - late 1980's iirc - a man with an expired temple recommend (he had been ex'd, I think) forced his way into the D.C. Temple with a gun and held a couple of temple workers hostage for a few hours. He eventually surrendered and the story made the news. The temple was closed for a day or two. If I remember right, they just quietly rededicated that part of the temple. I'm not sure, though...I was a teenager at the time and not much was said about how they handled it. Does anyone else remember? Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 8/22/2003 6:27:03 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] Temple Defilement This is what happened in Manti, as we were told by some Manti folks. Most of the time, entering the temple unworthily is considered significantly different from defiling the temple (a premeditated act which leaves physical evidence). Entering the temple unworthily defiles the person, not the temple. *jeep! ~~Chet If ya thinks ya is right, ya deserfs credit - even if ya is wrong. Gus Segar via Popeye --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stacy Smith: I was wondering how it works, that's all. ___ I think the scripture says It shall be holy, or the Lord your God will not dwell therein. When a person who is not worthy enters and leaves the temple, and no one knows about it (that is, we mere mortals), I don't think anything is done. I have heard of two or three situations where someone broke into a temple and either did things they shouldn't or caused minor damage. In those cases, after any needed repairs, I understand that the temple president was authorized by the President of the Church to rededicate that area of the temple. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Welcome back Rusty!
Welcome back, Rusty! I'm sure that teaching seminary for 4 years was an amazing experience. It's good to see you on this list again. Heidi the fair ** For those of you who are long-time Zion members, you may remember me - Rusty Taylor. I've been on John's lists off and on since the beginning... anyone else remember the awesome cyber-food fights we had? Well, I've been teaching Seminary for the last 4 years and didn't have time to do that and be on this list. Now, I'm done for a while. I need a break. Our oldest son has left on his mission and our younger son will be a senior in high school this year. I want to spend more time with him before he goes on his mission. For those of you who don't know me - I joined the Church at 16 with my parents and younger 2 sisters (an older brother was away at college at the time and has never joined). We were baptized at the Joseph Smith Memorial in Sharon, VT. I went to school at BYU and went on a mission to Sapporo, Japan. Then I met my husband, Bob - we got married, moved to Alaska and ended up in Kotzebue. That's where we met John and Esperanza. After 6 years and adopting our sons, we moved back to the lower 48, and have lived on the Kitsap Peninsula (across the Puget Sound from Seattle) ever since. I work for the local school district. I don't have a Church calling at the moment. I'm looking forward to being part of Zion, again. Yoroshiku onegai itashimasu! Sis. Rusty Persecution against the Saints does not have to assume the same form as those overt violent acts against the Church in the Nauvoo period. Even more hateful and vindictive injustice was weighed against the Church after it was established in the Rocky Mountains. The extent of the bureacratic and legalistic punishment of the Church by the US Government during that period is difficult to fathom. Such predations could easily be revisited in the near future. It seems that all the motivation required during the earlier period of anti-Mormon aggression was the manipulation of public sentiment by powerful people in high places. Are people any more sophisticated today? ** There are no coincidences, only small miracles. Author Unknown Mrs. Rusty Taylor - Poulsbo, WA [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) website -- http://pacific.telebyte.com/~brtaylor/ ** // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] power out
I'll bet that Saints living in the areas affected by this huge power outage are either wishing that they were prepared to deal with something of this nature or thankful that they are indeed prepared. I know that my in-laws, who live in between Ottawa and Toronto, are indeed prepared and they'll manage alright enough. I wonder, though...today is my father in law's regular day to work at the Toronto Temple...I imagine they just went on home after securing the temple Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
Even though our country has laws against certain forms of persecution (would it fall under hate crimes?), I believe that when it comes to the Saints, those laws will be ignored. I believe that any breaking of those laws will be overlooked, much as KKK activities were overlooked for so long. Laws or no laws, we are going to be persecuted. I believe that it has already begun, though not yet widespread. Faith, like Pres. Hinckley said, is the key. With faith, I can feel pity for those who have persecuted the Saints and will yet persecute because eventually they are going to have to pay a terrible price and they don't even know it. What a terrible surprise that will be. If I have faith, if I truly live the gospel, what of any eternal significance can happen to me? Just my two cents' worth... Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Valerie Nielsen Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 8/8/2003 4:32:27 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo The feelings then are still present today. I have been to Nauvoo twice in the past year, and both times met up with people who absolutely hate us. I'm not sure they even know why they do, except it has been taught to them to hate. As I stood looking across the mighty Mississippi, I tried to imagine the Saints crossing with wagons and horses. It was incomprehensible to me. I get nervous driving over that river on a bridge. Then, on the Iowa side, I looked over and saw what the Saints must have seen--the beautiful Nauvoo temple, shining and beautiful. I cannot begin to imagine what it must have been like to work so hard to build that edifice, only to have to leave it behind. In fact, it was finished and dedicated after many Saints had already left Nauvoo. I can't be so sure that I would not have stayed behind with Emma--she had already suffered so much loss. It is unfortunate that such hatred exists--but it did then and it still does. If anyone read the article link I sent the other day, then you know that such hatred still exists. A few months ago we discussed here, briefly, Pres. Hinckley's allusion to our season of relative comfort coming to an end. At the April 2001 General Conference, he mentioned the relative peace we lived in, and the fact there were no big wars. Of course we know what happened less than a month before the Oct 2001 conference. At that conference GBHinckley talked very strongly about the evil that still exists in the world today. He emphasized over and over the value of our testimonies and faith. Especially our faith. I still remember hearing him speak and thinking to myself that we are going to, again, be a persecuted people. I doubt it will be in the same manner it was then--our country has laws now against such things, but I believe it will happen nonetheless. I still have people who have known me for years give me the strangest look and turn their backs when they find out I am a Mormon. I much prefer those who find out and joke with me about which wife I am. At least I have something on which to build. But those who say nothing and just walk away. . . my 2cents val On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:48:36 -0800 John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been reading THE STORY OF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS by James B. Allen and Glen M. Leonard, and I just read the part where the saints were forced to leave Nauvoo in February, 1846, months before their planned departure in April. I was especially moved by the story of the saints who were too poor to make the trek, but who were forced across the river nevertheless. Reading this history, I just can't help feeling a deep resentment towards the American people who either persecuted the saints or looked the other way while they were persecuted. Over a thousand saints died on the trail that first winter, the winter of 1846-47. Disgusting. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph. --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
Re: [ZION] Is Laughter a Sin?
I don't think we can say that laughter is or is not a sin. To my mind, it really depends on what we're laughing at. We're not to make light of - or make fun of or laugh at - sacred things. It's as simple as that, to me. It's entirely appropriate to laugh at the look at your kid's face when she's snuck an extra-spicy Dorito that's she's been told not to have (it really was funny! She came running out of the bedroom looking very surprised and saying hot! hot! She was 3 1/2 at the time). I have no problem with cracking jokes and such, but I wouldn't think of joking about something that I hold sacred. That's part of the reason that I, personally, have no desire to see that movie Bruce Almighty. From what I've heard of it, it seems to me to make light of things that I feel are sacred. That's my opinion, of course, and I could be wrong. Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/14/2003 8:40:07 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Is Laughter a Sin? Showing deep insight, Stacy Smith wrote: P.S.: Do you mind if I send your message about laughter to some priesthood holders and get their opinion as well? Please do. Every time I ask this question, EVERYONE tells me that laughter and joking are fine, but NOBODY attempts to explain the scriptures prohibiting it. Personally, I laugh and joke a lot. But these verses bother me because they seem to be contradicting what seems right to me. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph. --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWh8pe.aGtwYWdl Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Video Amusement (was: Gods and Generals)
I'll let you know about the League. Right now, my husband is with a friend catching a matinee of it. I'll get him to tell me what he thought of it and I'll let you know. Meanwhile, I've seen Pirates of the Caribbean and I loved it! My mom loved it, too. Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/17/2003 2:42:24 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Video Amusement (was: Gods and Generals) Chet Cox wrote: And of course we want to go see *the League of Veryordinary Gentlemen* since a friend told us it wasn't as bad as the comic. This movie played briefly here in Ketchikan, and I wanted to go see it but it was replaced by Terminator 3 before I had a chance. Was it any good? If it was, I'll buy the DVD when it comes out, but otherwise no. What did you like or dislike about it? John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph. --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWh8pe.aGtwYWdl Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Little Ducks
What a neat thing to be able to watch these little ducks! It does make you nostalgic for when they were little and you could more easily protect them. JWR, just from what I've learned about you and your wife over this impersonal medium of email, I think you both have done the best you can to prepare them for life. You've followed that proven method of teaching correct principles and then letting them govern themselves (wasn't it Joseph Smith who first said that...and did I get it right?). That's what my husband and I are trying to do. As my son gets taller and taller (he'll be 11 in October and the top of his head hits just under my nose! He thinks that is just great!), it becomes obvious to us that time is short. In just 8 short years, he'll be going on a mission (he's already preparing and talks about it all the time). That time is going to just fly right on by. Sure, I've got my little ducks still at home but it won't be for long! [Original Message] From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/2/2003 5:56:15 PM Subject: [ZION] Little Ducks Just outside my sliding glass patio door are a number of wild mallard ducks. One of them is an expectant mother sitting on a nest of eggs. She is so dedicated that she will not move even when I approach her even though she is terrified as evidenced by her hyperventilating. But another female, whose eggs have already hatched, keeps parading up and down the walk of nearby condos with five little ducklings following her about. I imagine that the nesting, expectant mother is envious. Maybe soon there will be more little ducklings. I am reminded of those years when my children were little, just after moving here to Ketchikan. We went everywhere together, with the kids following along behind just like a row of little ducks. sigh And then they grew up and left home. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph. --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] Gripe session
Okay, we're in this new branch (though it will probably be a ward by the end of this year at the rate we're going). While there are a lot of new members, I'd say about 2/3 of the branch have been members for a while. However, it seems like some of those just don't bother to do the right thing. For instance, both the opening and closing prayers in our sacrament meeting this past week were given by brothers who have been members of this branch for years, yet throughout both prayers, familiar terms (you, your, etc. vs. thee, thine, thy, etc...) were used quite often. I thought I was listening to a Baptist prayer! Now, I totally understand that newer members might not know that we shouldn't use the familiar terms and that doesn't bother. What does bother me is that these two ought to know better. I suspect they DO know better yet they're just doing it that way because they want to do it that way. Am I just being too nit-picky here? By the way, that brother who I feel was too familiar with me that first Sunday there (he hugged me instead shaking my outstretched hand and I'd never met the man before...) continues to try to make what I feel is too-close contact. This past Sunday, I was sitting in the pew waiting for my husband to come sit by me and I had my arm outstretched along the back of the pew just waiting for my beloved. As I was sitting there, I feel a hand on my shoulder and then that hand ran down my arm a bit and patted it. I turn around expecting to see my husband and I saw this other guy. The meeting was just getting started so I didn't feel like I should be saying anything. However, if he tries anything like that again, I've got to say something! What do I say? The thought that came to my mind was to say something like, I would prefer if you would just shake my hand when you greet me. I don't know. His wife already doesn't like me; she's the self-appointed matriarch of the branch (they've been here something like 40 years and she's thinks she's just IT!) and she teaches the Gospel Doctrine class. She said something in class that wasn't correct and I corrected her. I did it in a civil manner, but apparently one is not supposed to correct her (according to her anyway) judging by her reaction to me ever since then. I prefer to be on good terms with all my fellow ward/branch members, and so I am somewhat bothered by this, but I'm not so bothered that I'm sorry I corrected her. Anyway...any suggestions from anyone? Thanks for listening to my gripe session... Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] hand shakes
Oh, I don't know, Paul. I'm pretty particular, I suppose, but I just don't worry about making hand contact with the temple workers. Especially when it pertains to performing ordinances, I just feel like the Lord will protect us. And actually, the Lord is in charge; He is the one who has said how the ordinances are to be performed. It is just my personal feeling that when we are in the temple, we are where we are supposed to be and everything will be alright. I just don't worry about it there. Naturally, I wash my hands as per my usual practice (like after using the restroom and before eating) but beyond that, I just don't worry about it in the temple. But that's me... Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 6/23/2003 9:52:23 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] hand shakes On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 04:11:31 -0700 Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What are we supposed to do about temple workers' hands? Are we to ask if they have washed them? Stacy. It's just down right dirty, nasty, and germy. There just doesn't seem to be a way out of it. H. Oh well; what can we do? We have no say about it. The prophet runs the show. Wait! Could we wear latex gloves in the temple?? I'm dead, serious! Can we? Who is going to stop me from doing so? It's our business and our health-- besides latex gloves are white. This just might be a glorious revelation on my part! Safe temple ordinaces? ;-))) Paul O the Great [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] hand shakes
I am a big believer in hand washing. That might have something to do with the fact that my mother is a nurse. Anyhoo...I've spent a lot of time around children that aren't my own, and I rarely get sick. I strongly believe that I wash my hands thoroughly as often as possible. I'm not obsessive about it, but I do wash my hands thoroughly before eating and after using the loo, before and after being around children (like, serving in the nursery or looking after the neighbors' kids, etc), and also when I've touched animals (like petting a dog). I've taught my children to be careful about washing their hands as well, and they rarely are sick beyond having allergies... Also, I don't use anti-bacterial soap at my house. In both bathrooms and in the kitchen, I have liquid soap pumps filled with regular, non-anti-bacterial soap. Also, and this is an eccentricity (if you want to call it that) passed on to me from my mother...after using a public restroom and washing hands, I use a paper towel in my hand (or, failing that, a tissue from my purse) to open the door to leave - in recognition of the fact that most people don't regularly wash their hands well, if at all, and then they go touch that door handle. Ish! Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Original Message] From: Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 6/22/2003 12:17:08 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] hand shakes Antibacterial soap is no more effective than regular soap. Here's the facts: 1. The skin keeps bacteria and viruses out of the body. 2. Bacteria and especially viruses lurk in the oil on your hand. 3. Washing with water only does a poor job of removing these disgusting oils! 4. Washing with a wetting agent such as soap or detergent removes these oils. But ya gotta wash ALL of the surface of your hands, including between the fingers. Most people do an extremely poor job of washing their hands. 5. Antibacterial agents kill some bacteria, but certainly don't do anything about viruses (you know, colds, flues. etc.) 6. Stop poking your face with your hands. That will eliminate much of the infection that occurs. 7. If you are worried about shaking hands, then also do not touch any handrails, nor any door knobs, nor anything else anyone has touched. As an interesting side note, there was a study done on the causes of intestinal infection on wilderness backpackers. What made them sick? Was it untreated water? Bad jokes? What was it? It turns out that the highest correlating factor was whether or not they washed their hands before eating and after pooping. Those who did seldom got sick. Those who got sick seldom did. Jon - Original Message - From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] hand shakes On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:29:45 -0500 Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul, maybe you should consider carrying around one of those big squirt bottle of that anti-bacterial hand gel and use it every time immediately after you shake someone's hand . . . and hope you never get called as Sacrament meeting door greeter . . . That's really a good idea, seriously, a good idea. I'll talk to my wife about it. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] hand shakes
Ronn wrote: Paul, maybe you should consider carrying around one of those big squirt bottle of that anti-bacterial hand gel and use it every time immediately after you shake someone's hand . . . and hope you never get called as Sacrament meeting door greeter . . . I would rather shake hands than the greeting I got this past Sunday. Our first Sunday in our new unit, and some brother comes up and, ignoring my outstretched hand, hugs me. Needless to say, being hugged by a man who was a total stranger to me made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, I know we're not strangers but fellow saints, but that doesn't mean I want to hug one I've not ever met yet. I'm just going to have to make a point to avoid this person, I guess (unless y'all have any other suggestions). Heck, there's a lot about the way this branch is run that I just don't know about yet...my husband believes this is a test for us to see how we'll react to all the weirdness going on. Paul, you can get bottles of the anti-bacterial stuff that is the right size for your pocket or your wife's handbag, and they have a flip top. Either that, or you can carry around those individually-wrapped anti-bacterial moist towelettes, as I do. That, and I keep a container of those wipes that are the kind that you can use for hands or whatever (there's Lever2000, Splash-n-go...you know what I mean, though, right?) in the car at all times. Anyway, stay tuned for tales from our new branch... Heidi the fair // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] I'm all shook up.
Jon writes: rom: It's tornados that scare me. Now, see, I'm kinda opposite. While tornadoes scare me, I know that with technology being what it is, there is a MUCH better chance that you're going to get a warning that a tornado is heading your way. With an earthquake, there is no reliable way that they can give any kind of warning that an earthquake is imminent. If something like that is going to happen, I like having the warning so I can take steps to preserve life. But that's me... Heidi the fair // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] This month's Ensign
Can anyone out there in Utah help me out? I renewed our Ensign subscription a little too late it seems, and we'll be missing the February issues of the Ensign and Friend. I will be happy to send a check to cover the cost of the single issues of both magazines and postage if someone would be willing to pick them up and send them to me. Thanks in advance! Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers
Not me, but someone I knew in Kansas was named Eowyn. Her parents were LOTR fanatics. She had this wonderful long, wavy red hair that I just envied! Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Johnna Cornett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 12/14/2002 12:40:18 AM Subject: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers Well, I'm excited for movie two. I want to see it opening night, not sure how I'll work that in to my life with a baby. My husband has seen Fellowship for the first time on DVD over Thanksgiving weekend, so now he wants to see Two Towers with me, hurrah. A friend brought the DVD by at Thanksgiving, so I got to see much of that backstory, making-of footage. Made me more excited to see the next installment. Made me wonder why I'm not doing cool stuff in my life, like making scale models of orthanc, or designing elven swords, or more particularly, designing and making the costumes. My daughter was Fleur de la Coeur for Halloween, and making her costume was too fun. She's a natural platinum blonde at this age, and her good friend already claimed the Hermione role. My prediction for this Two Towers movie is that it will be violent. As I was rereading Two Towers this week, I was noticing a preponderance of battle scenes. Also, I 'm looking forward to Eowyn's character being introduced to the movie--a fabulous character that could be the star of a lesser work. Reading two of the books a measure of fan status? I'm running into geek rating. I've read the entire LOTR trilogy four times in the last thirteen months. Too me, the dividing line between the fans and the fanatics is learning elvish. Though now more people talk about LOTR and I find I know much more about it that other readers, I believe I should give in to my interest in the languages of middle earth. apparently I'm a tolkien geek anyway. My eight-year-old wants to have a LOTR-themed birthday party next year. That's my girl! Johnna okay, I'll admit my friends called me Meriadoc all those years ago, and my best friend was Pippin. anyone else had a LOTR moniker? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION]
Glad to hear it! Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 12/14/2002 10:51:46 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] tumor benign Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Are any of you having problems? morphing to The Two Towers Anticipation
What kind of tumor, Paul? Hopefully, it is benign. By the way, am I the only one out there who is REALLY looking forward to seeing LOTR: The Two Towers? Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 12/9/2002 11:28:07 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems? On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:28:51 + Chet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ouch, Paul! Here's hoping and praying for no permanent damage (at our ages, those joints just don't snap back) and a swift recovery. In this day of electronic information, our typing skills are paramount. I went to see the doctor today and he put my right wrist in a brace. I'll see what happens in two weeks. I just had surgery on Friday to have a tumor removed from my back-side-trunk. Other than that I'm doing pretty good actually. :-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] December's Friend mag
Sorry...no can do! The filling and thus the pie turned out great did not last long! :-) Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11/28/2002 8:46:33 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] December's Friend mag Cool! Kin ya send me some of that blueberry pie? Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 04:11 PM 11/27/2002, you wrote: Hi all...we got our December Church magazines today, and when I looked in the Friend on page 28 (in the Trying To Be Like Jesus section), there was my son's picture. Months ago, I helped him write out his experience and we mailed it off. Are we ever excited to see it in the Friend, and I thought I'd let you all know. Gotta go...I'm making homemade filling for blueberry pie... Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] December's Friend mag
Hi all...we got our December Church magazines today, and when I looked in the Friend on page 28 (in the Trying To Be Like Jesus section), there was my son's picture. Months ago, I helped him write out his experience and we mailed it off. Are we ever excited to see it in the Friend, and I thought I'd let you all know. Gotta go...I'm making homemade filling for blueberry pie... Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Rockwell Island Lighthouse
WOW! I saw it, and did the right-click-save-picture-as thing... I just set a gorgeous pic of the Oakland Temple as my wallpaper, but the lighthouse is next! Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/6/2002 1:00:10 AM Subject: [ZION] Rockwell Island Lighthouse Here is the picture that I have been marveling about. --JWR http://zionsbest.com/lighthouse.html / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] To act or to be acted upon
I wonder if you have been asked to not use the term free agency because the word free might connote to some people that one can use their agency free of any consequences. Sure, we have free use of our agency but must accept that any decision has consequences, good or bad; we are not FREE of those consequences. And, so I wonder if that's the reason... When I teach YW lessons, I make a conscious effort to not use that term. Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/4/2002 7:08:19 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] To act or to be acted upon In CES, we have been instructed to NOT use the phrase free agency, but rather use moral agency. What the reason is, I do not know. Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: Can't say as I disagree with anything you write. Perhaps the ambiguity of the word free is what has led to a decrease in popularity of the term free agency in favour of moral agency. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Possibly expanding family
No...I'm not pregnant (I don't think, anyway...). We may just have the opportunity to adopt two children in as little as six months from now. They have been removed from their parents' custody because the parents are barely more than children themselves and can't even take care of themselves. They had been living in a dump of a home and had been obtaining their electricity illegally. Well, the utilities found out and sent someone to shut off the electricity. When that happened, they realized that there were young children in the home (at this point, they are 20 months old and 6 months old) and reported that to authorities. They were removed from the home a week ago. The maternal grandparents are members of our ward and are just agonized over this. They were going to take the children in to their home but realized that if they did, the mother would never be motivated to make needed changes in her life (the husband is only father of the youngest child). While they hope against hope that their daughter will put her life in order, they are extremely doubtful that this will take place. The court has given her six months to make changes in her life sufficient to be able to care for the children. Again, her parents are very doubtful that she ever will be at that point anytime soon. Which is where we come in...the grandparents would love to see these darling children raised in a strong LDS home and sealed to their parents, and they - knowing we haven't been able to have more children - asked if we might consider adopting them. That came as quite a shock, but after much prayer and discussion, we decided that should the court terminate parental rights, we would love to add these children to our family. So, we could have them in our home in as little as six months from now, which is an exciting thought. We put the question to our children to see what they thought, and they were so excited at the prospect. They are really hoping that they end up with a new little sister and a new little brother. We're just praying that things will work out the way the Lord would have them do, whether they are meant to stay with their biological mother or be adopted by us. Just thought I'd let you all know...I'll keep y'all posted... Heidi the fair Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
By the way, Paul...it is GREAT to see you back on the list! Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/30/2002 8:40:26 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated Why are we (I include myself in that) latter-day saints so reluctant to get our year's supply of food? Not JWR. I have seen his stash. He is loaded with grain! When I visited him in Alaska I told him he may need a gun to protect his stock but he said he has so much he is willing to feed his neighbors too! What a swell guy. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
