Re: [Zope] Re: deprecated products? 2 more... +rant
LocalFS ZopeShortCut both very nice, useful work with 2.9.x, 2.10.x .. Zope.org is a scary sad stupid mess, BUT yes it's also full of useful stuff But oh boy its some tlc and some web2.0 commonsense interface friendliness Like add a form so people can flag and comment notes and version goodness and trouble METADATA for fucksakes.. Then one could actually sort and search for products in more useful, less time consuming random way. But then it would'nt be zope if you did'nt need hope right Things that would be really useful to know: list/sort/search products by -- last date product was updated [then you could narrow to only within 1 year . If no good or some special need, widen the timerange.] -- number of downloads this could be very useful indicator of aliviness or currrent validity -- abandonned lots of products say that they are discontinued. Good to know. But if only that info were stored as metadata flag [with date of announcment], imagine ow uch easier it would be. -- Plone dependencies == packages needing some version of plone -- Zope 3 dependencies == products using Zope 3 -- now hosted elseware -- many are mainatained elsewere with newer versions etc -- dead link WHY is it so hard for noble prize winning dynamic Zope to track a dead url, and save one all that extra hassle ??? Jason ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] How to use Zope2 products in Zope3 ?
Hello I have some Zope2 products I want to use in Zope3. First up these: -- LocalFS -- ZopeShortcut -- SWFFile Confused by changes... I can't find any 'Products' or 'Import' folders in my Zope3 instance... Does this mean all those good products have to be rewritten using some new super-complexificated Zope3 syntax? I hope not. What am I missing please..? Thanks for any advice Jason ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] How to use Zope2 products in Zope3 ?
Martijn Pieters wrote: On 10/9/07, Jason Cunliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Confused by changes... I can't find any 'Products' or 'Import' folders in my Zope3 instance... Does this mean all those good products have to be rewritten using some new super-complexificated Zope3 syntax? I hope not. What am I missing please..? I am afraid that you are correct. Zope 3 does not support Zope 2 products. Instead, Zope 2 is using more and more Zope 3 tech and products get rewritten over time, gradually. ah ok thanks.. so how in Z3 does one do the equivalent of -- DTMLMethod -- PythonScript -- ExternalMethod ?? I'm just looking for some ways to do some very light script programming in Zope3 via ftp from UltraEdit or directly using ZMI in a browser. For example I have ''randomImage', a tiny Zope2 PythonScript to display random images in whichever folder it is called from. Beautiful example of what Zope does really well. from random import choice imagelink = str(choice( context.objectValues(['Image']) )) #return imagelink print 'htmltitlerandomImage... /titlebody %s /body/html' % imagelink print '/html' return printed - Please how/where do I this in Zope3 ? What is the vehicle? ZPT ? What ever happened to 'PythonScripts' and those nice 'External Methods'? I read how Zope 3 was/is supposed to be be *more* pythonic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Most of my client interfaces will be done in Flash [Actionscript3.0]. I want Zope to remain *invisible* and stick to server-side tasks, with Flash as the visible graphical face. As much as possible client-side logic, design, presentation, typography, media, and interface programming -- all that belongs on the client. AJAX is now very popular for this reason also. For my purposes, Flash is really perfect for this, except for one small problem- lacks of basic communication between embedded SWF file and the browser. Good news = is there is now a very nice solution which opens the gates for powerful easy Zope-Flash interoperability: SWFAddress http://www.asual.com/swfaddress/ SWFAddress - Deep linking for Flash SWFAddress is a small script that sits on top of SWFObject http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/ and provides deep linking for Flash websites and applications. In other words it enables the Back, Forward and Reload buttons of the browser and creates unique URLs with page titles that can be sent over email or IM. SWFAddress uses the ExternalInterface functionality introduced in Flash Player 8 and comes with a technique that enables search engine indexing for deep Flash links. demo http://www.asual.com/swfaddress/samples/flash/ With SWFAddress installed and Zope scripts such as 'randomImage' it means that one can write/craft standalone user interface components in Flash or Flex AS3.0 - complied as .swf files. A gallery image display widget for example can now be built to load images using URL call http://somesite.com/images/randomImage The beauty is the famous separation - logic, design, content. In this example there is no need to change the flash file. It can be freely copied and used in different places in different sites. But the parameters for the URL can also be passed in from javascript/html interface or transparently implicitly via the Zope programming lying behind its ubercool object path logic = http://somesite.com/images/randomImage So I'm trying to get to grips with the *simplest* possible use of Zope3 -- later I'll grapple with writing components etc if I need them hope this makes sense thanks for any help Jason ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] How to use Zope2 products in Zope3 ?
Andreas Jung wrote: so how in Z3 does one do the equivalent of -- DTMLMethod There is also DTML support in Zope 3 but why do you need DTML??? Maybe I don't need it... but there are lots of DTML examples out there, plus I have some things already working on Zope2 installation here. I'm in test/review/compare/learn cycle at the moment. Was hoping for some fast copy'n'paste between versions. My main effort will be in the userclient AS3.0 dev.. On the Zope side it's more about organizinng minimal pieces. IF I knew how, I'd love to write theentire ZMI in Flash. AS3.0 in Flex especially has great data binding. For example cool drag'n'drop trees with lovely E4X syntax for XML. The site tree admin in ZMI could be as nice to use as the live flex examples in this drag'n'drop tree component article shows: tutorial http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/quickstart/working_with_tree/ source http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/quickstart/working_with_tree/src/TreeDragTo/index.html Going further one can use AIR and have drag'n'drop access on the desktop Interfacing that to Zope3 would make the basis for a superb CMSWikiLog++ AIR-to-Desktop Drag-and-Drop: Two Simple Utility Classes http://coenraets.org/blog/2007/06/air-to-desktop-drag-and-drop-two-simple-utility-classes/ http://coenraets.org/blog/2007/06/air-to-desktop-drag-and-drop-two-simple-utility-classes/ download demo http://coenraets.org/downloads/dragdrop.air -- PythonScript -- ExternalMethod Write a browser view. ok thanks.. So now I'm googling for How to write a Zope3 browser view? Wondering has anyone done this already.. seems like it must be basic to using Zope3 lots more to learn Any suggestions where best to learn how to do this? Has anyone written a glossary for Zope 3 concepts terminology for Zope 2 users? Jason ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Zope 3 Cookbook beta.. model?
*Zop 3 cookbook beta.. as clear and accessible as this page: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/communityengine/index.cfm?event=homepageproductId=2 rollover posted list headings displays 1 paragraph Problem/Solution summaries * ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Zope 3 editors?
What do you recommend as code completion tool for learning/writing Zope3 ? ... is there anything like this nice Javascript developer tool? http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/jseclipse/ http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/jseclipse/videos/ http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/jseclipse/videos/codecompletion/ thanks, Jason ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] Professional Sites Using Zope??
Thanks for the news... Brad Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have another site I can't tell you the URL for, its for an importer-exporter handling 600 packages per day (shipping, tracking, customs, etc) His customers (100 or so) and their staff (200 or so) login to track packages every day. Can't tell as in don't know or not permitted? This increases my ongoiing suspicion that Zope is #1 secret weapon [webpon?] for many. Arguably, The most 'professional' zope sites almost uniformly do not appear to be listed, dicsussed, promoted or cerdit Zope either. See posts from a while back about the radio stations and others listed at: http://www.zopezen.org/links in particular cbs new york and its merry clones: http://cbsnewyork.com/ http://1010wins.com/ http://www.krockradio.com http://www.wcbs880.com http://www.wcbsfm.com http://www.wfan.com ..lots of other 'professional' Zope sites to consider, for example at a random what do you call these two http://ddi.cs.uni-dortmund.de/ http://www.rosettaproject.org:8080/live ./Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] basic dtml syntax question
example: img src="dtml-absolute_url;" ^ ^ ^ ? Please can anyone explain why dtml... syntax has a semi-colon ; at the end? What is for? Why is necessary? etc How to use/abuse it? thanks Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Editors [OT]
check out HTML-Kit http://www.chami.com/html-kit/#features - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] - Original Message - From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tres Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 5:08 AM Subject: [Zope] Editors [OT] Tres Seaver wrote: I'm liking it a lot -- the last reason to even consider using emacs is gone :) Hmmm... interesting, maybe it's time to find a new editor... My wishlist would be: - Runs nicely on NT4 - Syntax highlighting for Python, C, XML, HTML (and, although this is dreamworld stuff, DTML ;-) - FTP or WebDAV editing built in as standard (or alternative solution, like cadaver making it work ;-) - Regular Expression search replace - search replace of multiple files and my dream list would be: - can run multiple copies of the editor at once - class browser for python, with expand/collapse of code (like the editor for Python 2) Any ideas? ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] ZClasses and title property
Hi Tim, I _think_ the problem may be that your choice of property is unlucky, because 'title' is already defined by default in Zope. Try changing it to something else and test. For example: 'timtitle' In 2.3b1 you can go to the built in Help System by selecting 'Zope Quick Start' + 'GO' [use the management top HTML frame] Then use seerch for title and see what comes up... a long list since as you will see. Hope this helps. Welcome to wide, deep, free land of Zope ...and good luck! - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] - Original Message - From: Tim Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 5:58 PM Subject: [Zope] ZClasses and "title" property Let me start by introducing myself...My name is Tim Moore and I'm new to the list and Zope in general. I'm still figuring out how everything works, so forgive me if I'm missing something basic here :-) I'm creating several ZClasses for the site I'm working on. In one of them I'd like to have a property called "title", but when I try to add it, I get the following error: Error Type: Bad Request Error Value: The id "title" is invalid--it is already in use. I'm confused, because this seems to happen even when I make a bare-bones minimal class, but a few of the examples I've found on the web site have ZClasses with title properties. I'm using version 2.3b1...is this a recent change in behavior or am I doing something wrong? If this is a change, does this mean I have to use a different property name, or is there some other way I can edit this title property? ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] ZAlert = 2.3b1 and ZBook out-of-sync ?
Hello I like the revised Zope 2.3b management interface. Big improvement and step in healthy UI direction. Thanks! ..I notice however, that the illustrations in the online version of the book are now visually 'out of sync' with the new Zope software. It may be trivial [non functional] matter and very tedious to fix, but is surely worth considering.. For example: The screen shot in Chapter 2 http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/UsingZope.html does not display the actual interface in 2.3b1 etc etc .. What to do? Will this be fixed in the printed book? Is it too late? Does anyone care? Does anyone have the time to update these? Am I getting too carried away? It would be a real shame to release the O'Reilly Book and immediately confuse people running 2.3, who I believe the book is your target audience. I believe it would also be a strategic mistake to release the book too soon without making SURE it is as in-sync as possible for an obviously wider audience. Let's assume that 2001, as the [Asian] year of the Snake, is also the year of Pyhon and [imo] the year of Zope. I estimate the Zope User population will at least double during the next 12 months, probably triple. I also expect serious Zope sites to catch on as Zopistas really start to apply their knowledge. Plus I think that Zope will catch on in both business and community [low-budget] applications. The ORA Zope book will become #1 reading for all newcomers and version 2.3++ will be where they begin their journey. They won't know or care about the 'ZPython thingy' debates [a great name] or lots of other stuff. They will care if the screen shots are all wrong and if there is no attempt to address this problem. Of course they won't realize till they get home.. best wishes - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] ZPOP Popularity Property ?
Hello I want to add a property to folders, documents and certain objects called 'popularity'. Can anyone offer some Zope advice how I might achieve the following: 1. Maintain an updated count of hits to those objects storing the number of hits, or preferrably an some offfset processed version of that number in 'popularity'. The processed value could take into account when and where the hits came from. 2. Search through folders and subfolders, checking objects 'popularity' value, and then return ordered lists to display of most/least popular. Preferably these lists would be Python dictionaries, and could be stored externally using BerkeleyStorageDB or similar so as not to extend the ZODB uneccesarily with small transaction data. This is inspired in part by a cool interface idea at: http://rhizome.org/starrynight/ quote Description When a new text is read for the first time on the Rhizome website, it appears on StarryNight as a dim star. Each time a text gets read again-by any Internet user around the world-the corresponding star gets a bit brighter. Over time, the page comes to resemble a starry night sky, with bright stars corresponding to the most popular texts in the database, and dim stars corresponding to less-popular ones. Dragging the mouse over one of the stars brings up a pop-up list of keywords that the corresponding text shares with other texts. Select a keyword in the pop-up list to draw a constellation linking all the stars that share that keyword. /quote I have other plans how to 'render' the popularity results, including as boring but very useful XHMTL tables, using Zwiff [Zope Flash product based on Ming. see http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/Zwiff/] Thanks - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] IEMethod (was: Can Zope ... )
Try searching for "Internet Explorer" in Software release search. http://www.zope.org/Members/johanc/ZIE/ZIE-demo ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] IEMethod (was: Can Zope ... )
Try searching for "Internet Explorer" in Software release search. also http://www.zope.org/Members/johanc/ZIE/xmlrpc_client ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] IEMethod (was: Can Zope ... )
I give up, what and where is IEMethod? Zope.org search turns up nothing. The Wiki for ZIE = 'The Zope Internet Explorer Editor Project' is http://www.zope.org/Members/johanc/ZIE/wiki/FrontPage ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope-dev] ZDESIGN IDEAS = How to improve 'manage' ?
r criteria listed here. For example only show me the objects modified since last week by USER 'really nice client' :-) How easy hard is the above to do? Has it already bee done? What techniques/components exists already to make it happen? What need to be developed? How does this affect Zope core? What woudl you like to see when you click on manage? What would you lceints liek to see? - Jason _______ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] ZDESIGN IDEAS = How to improve 'manage' ?
r criteria listed here. For example only show me the objects modified since last week by USER 'really nice client' :-) How easy hard is the above to do? Has it already bee done? What techniques/components exists already to make it happen? What need to be developed? How does this affect Zope core? What woudl you like to see when you click on manage? What would you lceints liek to see? - Jason _______ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] zope on Win95
Nando This should be what you are looking for: http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.2.4/Zope-2.2.4-win32-x86.exe/view I have been running Zope on Win95 and Win98 on laptops for learning, development and off-line site demsontration very happily for a long time. You don't 'execute dtml files' ... Zope uses them for many purposes as server-side scripts which are rendered and returned as ordinary HTML in the client web browser. DTML files can combine Zope-specific syntax, Python sytnax, Javascript stuff, CSS etc. Learning how to design for Zope, factoring the application, when and where to use the many tools and techniques - it takes time and practice to do well. But it is possible to get simple but impressive results very fast. DTML can be called within other DTML, Python or directly in a URL from a web browser. For example: http://www.myzopesite.com/invent 'invent' might be one of many things including: - a DTML Document or Method - some other script or method typically programmed in Python and accessible to Zope - a Zope other object in the ZODB [Zope Object Data Base] - a Zope 'folder' which appears as a hierarchical file system tree of containers for Zope applications, projects and data 1. See the online version of the new Zope Book http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ This will be published very soon by O'Reilly 2. Run through the tutuorials which are included when you download Zope. 3. See many more guides, how-to's etc are linked from http://www.zope.org/Documentation Good luck! - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] - Original Message - From: nando n [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 2:16 PM Subject: [Zope] zope on Win95 where can i download (exact url) binary version of zope to install it on my win95 system? for now i've only been able to download python source code version of zope. how do i execute dtml files? i just want to know that. thanks ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] PartitionedFileStorage - Eek!
Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now BerkeleyStorage is on its way and once that's ready, PartitionedFileStorage will have such a small audience that it won't be worth the trouble. Oh well, it was a fun experiment. Can you pleae expand on this.. what about BerkeleyStorage is on its way and when ? Been using it for soem tests and like it very much, sincerely hoping it might get rolled into Zope and Python before long. thanks - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: Z-Commerce components
Hi Brad Delighted to hear that Wampum and Zope work well for you. I just took a quick look at your site - very nice. However it seems very slow to load even a simple page and when I tried to but something the Checkout pages came up with broken icons :-( Am I unlucky or do you have a problem? thanks - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] From: Brad Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you know is anyone _using_ Wampum : a. For handling real transactions, or is it still in development stages ? We are using it for real transactions at http://www.adirondackcraft.com (RH Linux 7) So far has worked perfectly. We created our own shopping cart and checkout stuff. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Z-Commerce components
The Wampum Generator is available at: http://www.zope.org/Members/ngarcia/WampumGenerator Thanks! Do you know is anyone _using_ Wampum : a. For handling real transactions, or is it still in development stages ? b. With Etailer's Zope kit? - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Z-Commerce components
Hi Looking for an e-commerce tool to use for a Zope-based site for artists to share, display and sell 'net art' and more. Also to allow sponsors to do just that. Thus it will not typically have huge throughput traffic like a commercial site selling books or whatever, but on the other hand, must work smoothly enough to allow ticket sales for small concerts/events etc. The more artists/musicians/venues can use i, the lieklyier all will succeed. 1. What do you recommend for taking credit card purchases online with Zope? 2. Does Zope even have anything to do with this this part of the design problem? Thanks for any comments - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Reality check PYZOMA = python / zope for Mac ?
Steve Thanks very much for this encouraging news. Indeed if it runs well, Zope could be important enough app for for soem people to upgrade to MacOSX. If one needs to install Zope __now__ on non-MacOSX machines, what is the story? cheers - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] Steve Spicklemire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you seen: http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/MacOSXBHFS Zope-2.3a1 runs with Python-1.5.2. I've run Zope-2.2.x on MacOSX and it runs great. At some point someone with time, or a paying customer, ...[snip mySQL commercial/non-commercial prospects] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Reality check PYZOMA = python / zope for Mac ?
Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the mac getting left behind or will the new MacOSX in fact bring Python adn Zope more easily into the fold? MacOSX is almost Unix. It should be easy to create Python and Zope on it. That's good news, assuming that Mac owners uniformly adopt MacOSX. I would love to here from anyone interested who has MacOSX and would be willing to test this out. Does anyone know what Apple's plans are for MacOSX introduction to broad mass market.? Will it be the default AppleOS by end of 2001? I imagine though that most existing Mac users, artists, etc, especially long term users will not be in much of a hurry to upgrade at all unless they are technology freaks or have compelling new tools to benefit from. This makes me suspect there will be a large current Mac User population likely to be left behind by as we go into the next year with Python 2.x++ and Zope 2.3x++ being the modern versions. Will Zope 2.3x run on Python 1.5.2 - yes/no/maybe/sometimes/depends? My concern is because I want to install an integrated application using Zope + [Python] + Browser + Flash5 and I want it to run on Mac, Win32, Linux [etc]. Local ZServer + Flash5 offering peer-peer + smart-client features which can work offline and online adn be easy for desktop drag and drop for group site creation and management. Local Zope is a key part of this strategy - I have been recently discussing Zope based project with some artists, and was reminded about how many creative people only use Macs, thus the ZMac question. Thanks - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Reality check PYZOMA = python / zope for Mac ?
Hello I am wondering what the prospects are for Python and Zope on Macintosh: Is the mac getting left behind or will the new MacOSX in fact bring Python adn Zope more easily into the fold? I am quite concerned that projects planned for Python and Zope will not be in fact be usable on Macs.. What are the realistic prospects during the next 6-12 months do you think? Does anybody even care anymore? Thanks for any opinions and links.. brief searching for Python and has been a frustrating and confusing experience - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] quick python book - question about the feedback form example
Lee
I'm no expert, but I thought all Python Scripts [Methods] in Zope need to
include 'self' as the first argument.
Thus you should try instead
"""feedback.py: A simple feedback form application"""
def save_feedback(self, feedback_type, comments):
etc..
among others do check out the ZDP FAQ at
http://zdp.zope.org/projects/zfaq/faq/ExternalMethods#952541309
and also the new Zope Book Chapter 8
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ScriptingZope.html
[See section about External Python halfway down, but beware the new change
in terminology from 'Python Methods' to 'Python Scripts' - slightly out of
sync with the Quick Python Book]
good luck
- Jason
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Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']
- Original Message -
From: Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- I then create a python method called 'feedback.py' containing the
following:
feedback.py
--
"""feedback.py: A simple feedback form application"""
def save_feedback(feedback_type, comments):
""" A function to handle submitted feedback form data"""
# Open a file for appending to save the feedback
# creating the file if necessary
try: file=open("feedback_data", "a")
except IOError:
file=open("feedback_data", "w")
# Save the data
file.write("Feedback type: %s\n" % feedback_type)
file.write("Comments: %s\n\n % comments)
file.close()
return "Thankyou for your feedback!"
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[Zope] methodist revival meeting
Surely this should be corrected: ?? -- http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/Preface.html Chapter 8: Advanced Zope Scripting This chapter covers scripting Zope with Python and Perl. In it we cover how to write business logic in Zope using more powerful tools than DTML. It discusses the idea of methods in Zope, and focuses on Python and Perl methods. This chapter shows you how to add industrial-strength scripting to your site. -- best wishes - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] FTP in HTML-Kit? Sussed it!
Paul Thanks for your notes, especially the "open as text" tip. Very fast and easy. HTML-Kit Preview is very useful too for changing forms in Zope. Now if only someone would create an HTML-Kit library Zope extension complete with all essential DTML and pythonisms for auto tag completion - Jason _______ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] - Original Message - From: Paul Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:04 AM Subject: RE: [Zope] FTP in HTML-Kit? Sussed it! 1. Go Workspace - Add FTP Server/Folder - Add FTP Server. Do the obvious (all familiar to Homesite users). A blue coloured ftp source will appear in the File pane on the RHS. Expand/collapse trees to navigate to the file you want to open. 2. Right-click and "Open As Text". Haven't yet fathomed the significance of this as opposed to other options. What I do know is that "Save" then does the business - saves it back to your FTP source. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] FTP in HTML-Kit? Sussed it!
Yes interesting + thanks again. Also there is radio button in "Edit | Preferences | Workspace" 'Transfer mode' = use text mode to transfer files with extensions and then a long list: al;asa;asc;asp;aspc;aspx;bas;bat;c;c++;cat;cc;cfm;cfml;cgi;cnf;conf;cpp;cs;c ss;css1;css2;css3;csv;cxx;dcl;decl;dtd;dtml;el;ent;etx;f90;h;h++;hh;hkh;hks; hpd;hpp;htaccess;htm;html;htt;htx;hxx;inc;inf;ini;inl;iss;j;jav;java;javascr ipt;js;jscript;l;latex;lcd;lisp;log;lsp;m;pas;pc;perl;php;php2;php3;php4;php 5;php6;pht;phtml;pl;pl3;pl4;pl5;pl6;pl7;pll;plx;pm;py;rtf;rtx;scm;shtm;shtml ;soc;sql;stm;sys;tex;text;tsv;txt;vb;vbs;xml;xsd so I addeddtml; not sure what side efect there but seems to be ok :-) - Jason _______ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] From: Stefan H. Holek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope] FTP in HTML-Kit? Sussed it! I found an option in "Edit | Preferences | Workspace" named "Ignore file type when opening/inserting" It may have (yet undetected) side effects, but doubleclicking index_html now does what I would expect it to... ;) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: [Zope-ZEO] Zope 2.2.4 ZEO 0.4.1 (latest anyway) doesn't want to add Products
Shane Hathaway wrote: Bill Anderson wrote: On a related note, has anyone successfully made a mounted ZEOStorage thingum yet (mounted FileStorage for ZEO). The Wikis folder on zope.org is now a ZEO mount. We have chosen to use the ExternalMount product we created internally. It calls an external method to open the storage and create the database. It has the flexibility advantages we need; for example it lets you move a .fs file from non-ZEO to ZEO and back without going through a long recataloging process. Anyone interested in it? Shane Yes please. We are also interested. =+ 'Yes Please' - Jason _ Jason Cunliffe = Nomadics['Zmaps'].design ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] PythonScripts and ExternalMethods
From: Evan Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim and I expect to make External Methods obsolete, rather than upgrading them. In the near future, you will be able to get most of the functionality of External Methods from Python Scripts' import capability. In the longer term, we expect Zope 3 to completely change the way you write Zope code. In the meantime, External Methods work pretty well. This is very interesting .. Does this mean typically Python Exterbal Method code will be moved inside of Python Scripts, then modified and the ralted DTML simplified and/or eliminated? Hopefully Python Scripts will then be much more straightforward and any needed 'power' modules are accessed via import. I would like to hear more about how you envisage the actual workflow would happen. For example making changes to scripts - debugging - updating etc. How Zope import export may work in realtionship to this. say, bundling a folder of Python Scripts in.zexp file? How you imagine it working with ZEO setups when one needs to bounce scripts around and how script namespace will be handled..? - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Running Zope == ZopeVirgins
I hope Norm LaDuke does take a breath and follow the advise others have given. But his post does in fact seem to be a common first-time experience. So I would like to suggest a sensible super-newbie-oriented adjustment to _all_ future Zope installations: At installation Zope system should create a default user called 'tutorial' or 'guest' or 'first-time' or something. Upon launching Zope the first time after installation, user 'tutorial' would immediately be logged in automatically and routed to the tutuorial istelf, where the first page advises him/her to create a personal user 'Id' and password for any further real-world use of Zope. This page should also include a form right there to do this. - Jason - Original Message - From: "Norm LaDuke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 1:17 AM Subject: [Zope] Running Zope | Can anyone out there tell me why anyone would use a product whose tutorial won't | even run. You guys are either INFINITELY more patient than I or you all have | WAY too much time on your hands. I'm about 7 hours into this thing and we do | finally have zope up and running but of course the tutorial doesn't work. | Requires you to put in an ID then blows up and goes no further.What a piece | of garbage (Does my frustration show??) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] ZopeWeaver?
Hello
Thanks for all the comments so far on this topic. Hope to hear more.
I have been looking this morning gain at the Extending Dreamweaver docs.
[on Win32 its typically at
C:\Program Files\Macromedia\Dreamweaver 3\Extending\ExtendingHelp.htm ]
It seems to me that by using the XML-based TAGSPEC, and then the Dreamweaver
Javascript DOM, it should be possible to open index_html or anything.dtml in
a fully controlled manner. It looks like this can avoid any dependancy on
Win32.
SOME EXAMPLES:
DWfile.read()
The following code reads the file mydata.txt and, if successful, displays an
alert box with the contents of the file.
var fileURL = "file:///c|/temp/mydata.txt";
var str = DWfile.read( fileURL);
if (str){
alert( fileURL + " contains: " + str);
}
..
In Dreamweaver 3, extensions are no longer limited to working within the
local file system. Dreamweaver now provides a mechansim for getting
information from and sending information to a web server via hypertext
transfer protocol (HTTP). This chapter describes the HTTP API and how to use
it.
MMHttp.getFile()
The following code gets an HTML file, saves all the files in the
Configuration/Temp folder, and then opens the local copy of the HTML file in
a browser:
var httpReply =
MMHttp.getFile("http://www.dreamcentral.com/people/profiles/scott.html",
false);
if (httpReply.statusCode == 200){
var saveLoc = httpReply.data;
dw.browseDocument(saveLoc);
There's lots more, but these seem like the 2 essential ones [+ their
.write() counterparts]
The potential advantages I see for Zope are:
- PROFILE
[improving Zope's general visibility and acceptance for new projects] Having
a set of Zope Dreamweaver Extensions in itself would help promote it.
- WORKFLOW
[making Zopesite development with Dreaweaver much friendlier for
designers/programmers etc.]
- DESIGN
[ better integration with Macromedia's graphic toolset will make it easier
to for professional designers to develop more professional looing ZopeSites]
- FEATURES
[There are many features available now in Dreamweaver3+ which can be
leveraged to prototype and build higher level Zope templates design and
interface]
So my questions are what Javascript 'ZopeWeaver' extensions would you really
like to see?
- Jason
_______
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[Zope] ZopeWeaver?
Hello I am looking for realworld workflow tips on using Dreamweaver with Zope. There was a speculativ thread about this some time ago, when UltraDev was being pumped.. There are now all manner of Dreamweaver extensions, both trivial and sophisticated. http://www.macromedia.com/exchange/dreamweaver/ [check out the various categories listed in the 'browse extensions' dropdown menu near top of page] I would love to hear from anyone has been using Dreamweaver with Zope [recently].. How you organize your tasks between Dreamwever features and Zope features, etc? :Have you and problems with site upload from Dreamweaver into ZServer? :Use of Tables to implement zopesite design changes. :Not losing DTML tags.. :handling DTML :managing files locally and their relationship to ZODB thanks - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Python Script demo site
"Evan Simpson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A few announcements. First, in the interests of sanity and getting things moving, I'm choosing the only name other than "Python Method" to get a positive score in the naming poll. For the sake of future votes: did you actually hold a second poll ? Last I heard was a call for name candidates, which I thought would be the basis for a poll. Yes ..but the Florida supreme court overruled that late yesterady afternoon ;-) - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Objection to Python Script Name
- Original Message - From: Stefan H. Holek [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Chris Withers wrote: I had already made my point when the last poll was taking place. Renaming the XY Methods will break all documentation, how-tos, snippets, whatever. After all the traffic the mismatch of the ZB and non-CVS Python Methods has created, I really do not want to even imagine the flood of "My system does not have XY Methods" posts. Stefan, Yes this is still a good point.. But pragmatically, it seems like 'Python Scripts' is now President [unless major riots, appeals and insurgency follow..] However, I hope to god that Someone 1. Will put post some clear glossary-dictionary explanation or translation tables at zope.org to help Zope newbies and others relate the terminology of 'Python Scripts' vs. 'XY Methods' etc. 2. Fixes the OReilly book in some sensible manner - add highly legible note on Page 1, update the index in useful manner to catch the differences. 3. Will explain to me 100% clearly what difference there is now between a regular Python script and a 'Python Script' in Zope? Thanks - Jason [who though 'Python ZMethods' was good] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Python Zope Method as option for renamed Python Method?
Hamish Lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote In the poll currently underway on renaming options for Python Methods, the most popular choice so far is to leave the name as it is. It could just be because people don't see enough benefit in changing what's already there, but I think it may be that people actively feel that the term 'method' captures some technical essence. However, we still have the problem of disambiguating between a method in Zope's eyes and a method in the implementation language. How about calling anything that Zope regards as a method a Zope Method? That would then give us Python Zope Method, Perl Zope Method, DTML Zope Method, SQL Zope Method, etc. Is it too late to add the option for Python Zope Method to the poll? YES. I agree this makes a _lot_ of sense. It also means in any forms or menu popup boxlist, the most important distinguishing words will be shown first: Python Zope Method Perl Zope Method SQL Zope Method DTML Zope Method Rebol Zope Method Java Zope Method VB Zope Method Custom Zope Mthod etc.. - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] ZMethod (Safe)
Evan Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Safe and Flexible are probably more meaningful words there ;-) ZMethod is growing though ;-) We've pretty much settled on restricted/unrestricted here. In honor of the presidential Indecision 2000 race, we're seriously thinking about revamping and rerunning the poll, so ZMethod may well get its moment in the spotlight. lol Good news: 'ZMethod' is nice and 'sounds' good, however one says it. 'safe' / 'flexible' imho=nice ideam but a little too subjective, not informative enough 'restricted' / 'unrestricted' hmm.. better because more functional, but how about: 1. 'closed' / 'open' 2. 'builtin' / 'custom' 3. 'local' / 'custom' 4. 'client-side' / 'server-side' ??? - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] XML-RPC
Hello I am missing the start of this thread, so I may be off topic, but you might want to look seriously at Flash5 for the client side programming and graphics. PROS: 1. Flash5 ActionScript is _very_ close to JavaScript 2. Flash Player/Plugin is much smaller than SVG 300Kb vs. 13Mb I think + large user installed base. 3. Flash5 has new XML and XMLSockets objects which should integrate nicely with XMLRPC and Zope via some smooth Python external method programming. 4. Flash will allow _much_ more client side interactivity than SVG 5. You can port SVG graphics to Flash using various tools [or even write your own]. 6. You can still use SVG JavaScript and do some comparisons where appropriate... 7. Flash is more mature than SVG, though I agree SVG is developing very well. I expect we shall see some serious applications during next 12 months with it. 8. Flash is very object-oriented once you grok to its design. Thus mirrors Zope very well. CONS: A. Flash has steepish learning curve, but high payback and reusability. [Not as tough as Zope :-) ] B. SVG is fully open; the Flash spec is 'published' but not open in the same way. C. must be more but cant thing of them right now If you are interested contact me - I have lots of useful research on this topic. - Jason ___ Jason Cunliffe = Nomadics['Interactive Art+Technology'] - Original Message - From: "Hannu Krosing" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "David Nimmons" [EMAIL PROTECTED] | David Nimmons wrote: | | I am trying to develop a web based interface to automation equipment (Allen | Bradley plc's in this case) to use for an operator interface. I am using | SVG to develop graphics and want to use javascript to manipulate the | graphics based on data from the plc. I am looking for a way to pull more | data from the server without having to reload the page. My question is will | XML-RPC allow this. Or does Zope have some other mechanism that would allow | this. Thanks for any help. | | Actually this is mainly a client-side problem, on server side you have | total | freedom to serve any protocol ;) | | Often this kind of problem is solved by having twho frames and data is | aquired | by reloading the "data-page" which then manipulates the | "presentation-page" | using javascript, possibly in its onLoad method. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
- Original Message - From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book page to see what I'm talking about. Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable This is a really good point. Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them. How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution' The number of people who are likely to 'bootleg' the Zope book must be tiny. Most will want to see the book sales thrive, so that Zope grows and gets the wider recognition it deserves.And to save time and money when developing Zope projects. For such sophisticated 'free' software, a well written, well edited book is a trivial price to pay. The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner. Peer review now by skilled expert readers is huge advantage to be tapped. No matter how good OReilly are as publishers, I doubt they have many Zope experts in-house at ORA... Because there are not yet that many in the world! Most people are too busy anyway to be of much help. Anyone who wants to help adn has the ability to do so should be engaged now not deterred. Everyone will benefit if you act quickly now. Final stages of proofreading and tweaking are time consuming adn take many hands and many heads to get right. When done thoroughly this is the difference which makes a difference, especially for technical books. Look at how much hideous fast junk is out there in bookstores now. Look at how many books are a waste of paper and time and money, simply because they were not properly checked and tuned. good luck and best wishes - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
- Original Message - From: Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them. How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution' This is a good idea and probably a good compromise, but this would require us taking the time to negotiate it with O'Reilly and engineer a stx-pdf converter and pre-empt alot of work we have lined up for the book and other documentation efforts. With the existing setup, we don't have to worry about this for a couple months and we don't have to stir the shit with O'Reilly. This is truly nuts... Sounds a like you guys are tired and just want it done and printed now. So please just let us know whom we should contact directly at OReilly. This really is not 'stiring the shit'. Publishing staff are always over worked especially copy-editors. They will appreciate some timely comments, from some [free] Zope experts to help them get their work done quicker and better. Hell, they can even use it on the blurb to help sell the book and get some nice 'OpenSource reaches the Book Publishing World'-type reviews !! I find it hard to believe given the significant role OReilly have in openSource, Python etc that they would not be happy to embrace a __tiny__ experiment in this direction. The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner. Well... from your perspective (and ours) but from O'Reilly's I think they're woried about *who* the first person to print that best final copy is. Those are the people they are worried about bootlegging the book, not you, they _know_ you'll buy a copy. ;) If we open content it now, someone could beat ORA to the shelves by a week and undercut a sizable percentage of sales and all they would ahve to do is put ORAs name on the cover, but they don't get any money. I feel your pain on all issues. A couple more months and this will all go away. A couple of months from now is exactly when the pain will be felt! You open the book and go ooops! damn how'd we miss that one..? Then the reviews come and say "Been really looking forwards to this milestone book for a long time. It is well written by two members of the core Zope team but unfortunately" Please don't confuse controlled easy accesss for willing proofreaders, with public licensing and e-distribution models. Those CAN be sorted out later. Just as employees and freelancers working for Publishers have access to manuscripts, so should and can designated members of the Zope community. These are not annonymous strangers. I have been reading and printing out various chapters of the book from http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ over the past month. Then saved out a bunch of the HTML files and printed to PDF. Took 'em round the corner for cheap fast b+ printout and had comb binding put on then. It was worth the $15 for print+binding just to be able to scan on planes and while I was travelling. It already gave me a much better feeling and understnding of Zope :-) - Jason _______ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Hello Congratulations on getting the book to this stage!! It is very readable and I hope it is well promoted, and well received. One obvious presentation improvement I suggest is that you make ALL zope code references in the same typographic style. For example throughout most of the text you sensibly have DTML and Python examples in courier or equivalent. But in the Appendices, for example http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/AppendixA.html under sections marked 'Attributes', there is not a clear consistent distinction: encode=string MIME Content-Transfer-Encoding header, defaults to base64. Valid encoding options include base64, quoted-printable, uuencode, x-uuencode, uue, x-uue, and 7bit. If the encode attribute is set to 7bit no encoding is done on the block and the data is assumed to be in a valid MIME format. "encode=string" should display in courier also like all examples. And if possible put one extra line space after each Attribute description before the next entry. Thought this takes up a little more space, it is white space well used adn really helps one to find and absorb this crucial content better. An editorial suggestion I would make is that in the Appendices, MORE examples would be BETTER and clearer definitions and examples of the attributes arguments would really help too. Even a single one or two-line example after each 'Attributes section would be a godsend. I imagine there are lots of juicy examples in the archives. For example check sendmail, mailhost ="mailhostnamegoeshere" Also there is no mention about the sendmail quirkiness of formatting, needing space after the subject: line This is a FAQ and surely belongs in the appendix of the only Zope book. Are there others? In general for the Appendices, please check that explicitly it is clear and consistent when and if anything is returned, and when and how arguments are needed. You all know, and take all this for granted no doubt, but others truly don't. The API aspect is one that holds so many people back and so many questions about real-world use. Copious well placed examples go a long way. I know how hard it is use to make a book and how many endless fiddly time-consuming tasks there are. But it really is worth getting this right. I work for 10 years in the design and production side of book publishing. Ditto the index. I hope you push to make sure your editorial team at OReilly are really behind you on helping to produce a great index and will sweat all the details and typographic minutiae which do matter so much when you hold the final result. A classic example is 'Lingo in a Nutshell' [ORA] which has very detailed examples and excellent tables and appendices, but was marred by a cheap fast shallow index. It was author Bruce Epstein's painful learning curve. It is still the definitive LINGO book, but widely criticized for lack of serious index. Bruce later added stuff online and vowed to fix it in the next edition. As I recall from his post to the Direct-L mailing list, he said that he had not been personally very involved in the index, and as an exhausted and tired new author, he had not reckoned on what could go wrong, nor how important the index is to a static printed paper book. Very different from the dynamic online world where a few searches on google or wherever will get a handy reference, backed up by a post to xyz-mailinglist. Best wishes - Jason ____ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'].DesignDirector ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Fw: PythonLabs Team Moves to Digital Creations
- Original Message - From: Andy McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now I have to know, whats a "Jam Session"? I assume 'jam' session = creative improvisation based on experience and talent, as in Jazz.. Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, John Coltrane, Louis Armstrong.. - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Should I use ZODB or not ?
Dieter Thanks for your answer and advice.. I am curious how do you all think LocalFS would perform for such a big multimedia application.? http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr/Products/LocalFS In my view, LocalFS is an excellent product. I like it very much. However, I would not upload and not serve objects with a size of several hundred megabytes through ZServer (and thereby through Zope). As I said in an earlier response, ZServer is at least on order of magnitude slower with static content than Apache. This matters, if you transfer big objects! OK, sorry to be so dense about this, but when you say "through ZServer" ..please clarify for me on thing: Does LocalFS actually go "through ZServer" ? I thought that all it does, is to make a virtual link, storing a pointer in the ZODB to the real physical file system. Upload thus via FTP would be as fast as could be, and download could be defined if you prefer FTP or HTTP. Does'nt the link in LocalFS work the same in both directions, merely storing the linkn in XODB adn pass the location to the protocol? Recently, there has been some simple benchmarks for Zope versus Apache performance in this list. Search the archive (there is a searchable one at NIP) to get a feeling about the bandwidth. You may well use LocalFS to view the metadata (id, size, modification time, ...) from Zope, but you should not go through ZServer for upload and HTTP requests to really large objects. Again I dont understand. With LocalFS, isn't the "really large object" outside of Zope. Surely it does not care how big the file is? All it cares about is its location, and any extra metadata IF you choose to store it in Zope. yes / no? thanks - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] How best to restart Zope?
Hello Q: How to make sure Zope restarts automatically it is shut down ? Zope version: Zope 2.2.0 (binary release, python 1.5.2, linux2-x86) Python version: 1.5.2 (#10, Dec 6 1999, 12:16:27) [GCC 2.7.2.3] Linux2.2.5-15 RedHat6.0 (Hedwig) any ideas? tia - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] sendmail
Hello Trying to automate some sendmail messages but we keep getting Error Type: error Error Value: host not found Traceback (innermost last): File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 222, in publish_module File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in publish File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 171, in publish File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160, in mapply (Object: sendmail_test) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 112, in call_object (Object: sendmail_test) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/OFS/DTMLMethod.py, line 167, in __call__ (Object: sendmail_test) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 502, in __call__ (Object: sendmail_test) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/SendMailTag.py, line 188, in render (Object: dolphinsMailHost) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/MailHost.py, line 220, in send (Object: dolphinsMailHost) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 452, in sendmail File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 303, in ehlo error: (see above) Any clues to what is wrng here? tia - Jason Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] sendmail
- Original Message - From: J. Atwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] It looks like the email address you are sending (testing) to is not valid. "host not found" That can't be right. I have tried with a couple of known working email address. ..But I notice the Python error points first to /lib/python1.5/ and then /lib/python What up? Is this 'normal' for Zope 2.2.x? File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/MailHost.py, line 220, in send (Object: dolphinsMailHost) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 452, in sendmail File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 303, in ehlo Thanks Jason At 7:10 AM -0400 9/19/2000, Jason Cunliffe wrote: Hello Trying to automate some sendmail messages but we keep getting Error Type: error Error Value: host not found Traceback (innermost last): File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 222, in publish_module File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in publish File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 171, in publish File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160, in mapply (Object: sendmail_test) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 112, in call_object (Object: sendmail_test) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/OFS/DTMLMethod.py, line 167, in __call__ (Object: sendmail_test) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 502, in __call__ (Object: sendmail_test) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/SendMailTag.py, line 188, in render (Object: dolphinsMailHost) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/MailHost.py, line 220, in send (Object: dolphinsMailHost) File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 452, in sendmail File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 303, in ehlo error: (see above) Any clues to what is wrng here? tia - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Should I use ZODB or not ?
Hello I am curious how do you all think LocalFS would perform for such a big multimedia application.? http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr/Products/LocalFS Use Zope for managing meta-data, or mayeb even better Zope + a fast DB tool for the metadata part. Let Zope do its holy best for the 'virtual-object interfacing' jobs, let the others do their thing.. My understanding was that using the LocalFS is as fast as you can get really and that any file size limits are to do with the OS, disks RAM, caching etc, not Zope or anything else. Plus one is free to scale or mix and match zope with other tools and systems, as it develops without compromising all the work which has gone into the base data's filestructure. Might be much easier to develop too.. The data would not be locked into Zope or for that matter any RDBMS 'solution'. One coud performance tests, develop optimizations and determin along the way when and where to apply them. No headaches as Zope goes through upgrades either because one is not taxing it too much. Can anyone see what are the faults with this approach? I have been wondering about such what plan to use and if or with Zope for large animated map datasets project. This would use Flash SWF, and also SVG [XMLbased Scalable Vector Graphics] The SWF can be merged into Quicktime allowing for multiple tracks. This is a powerful combinatoin where one needs to package trainging, presentation. Video though big contains a huge amount of 'information' which is lost in all other infromation system: body language, human language, tone of voice, inflexion, accent, emphasis, mood, lighting, context, scale, enviromnental conditions. etc. - Jason Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director - Original Message - From: Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jerome Alet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] Should I use ZODB or not ? Jerome Alet writes: Our needs are to store hundreds, and possibly thousands of MPEG2 and MPEG4 (generally short) video movies, MP3 audio files, JPEG images, etc... Altough most of the files will be in the 1 Mb - 10 Mb range, some could be larger, e.g. some Gigabytes. For each file we also want to keep some data: author, subject, encoding, description, keywords, domain, etc... I see 5 solutions: 1 - store both files and their associated datas in ZODB 2 - store files in the filesystem and datas in ZODB 3 - store files in the filesystem and datas in an RDBMS (use Zope only for the presentation of files and datas) 4 - store files in ZODB and datas in an RDBMS. 5 - don't use Zope at all because it's not appropriate. Do not store the files in Zope or serve them with Zope. A standard web server (e.g. Apache) is at least one order of magnitude faster than Zope for static content (such as multi media files). This is essential for you large file objects. If you have up to a few thousand objects and they do not change too often, you can put them (the meta data) into the ZODB. Otherwise, put them in a RDBMS. I would use the RDBMS whenever I have one or I have more than a few hundred objects or I would need access to the data from legacy processes, too. Dieter ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Permissions logic and redirecting failed logins cleanly
Hello
We have folder on our site with a list of links to restricted pages and
downloadable binary objects.
1. 'Anonymous' can view the index_html of the top level folder for this part
of the site.
I did this by selecting 'Security' tab of my Zope folder, and then
deselected the 'Aquire permissions' boxes for
'View' and 'Access Content Information'
I then added 'View' permsission manually for role 'Anonymous'
I did the same for 'index_html' but also manually added 'Access Contents
Information' permission for role 'Anonymous'
Everything works fine. Anyone can read about it an see the links to objects
below this point, but clicking on them or typing in direct URL will open a
{user, password}login dialogue box. Good.
Now if people do not enter a valid login, after a few tries it bounces as
you would expect to a Zope error screen. This is nice when you expect it,
but inexperienced users are confused or think the site is 'broken' when in
fact it is working.
What we need is to redirect 'Anonymous' users [or indeed anyone] to another
page if their login fails. For example:
...
"The item your tried to access is restricted and requires member login
blahblahblah.
Contact mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] with your request
click [HERE] to return
How to detect and redirect to a page like this?
Thanks for any suggestions
- Jason
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director
___
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[Zope] Adding a new property over http
Hello I asked this in longer form before, but it fell by the way I think.. How to add a property to a containing folder. Looking for DTML or External Method way to do this. We need a Method to to add a new folder property assigning an 'Id' = somename adn 'type' = 'tokens'. We need to be able to do this by passing the variable somename over http. thanks - Jason Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] img tag dtml question
Hello Can anyone see why under 2.2.0 this is wrong ? /images [folder] 7Dlogoicon_gif [gif image file object] /deliverables/standard_html_footer [DTMLmethod] dtml-with /images a href = /deliverables dtml-var "7Dlogoicon_gif.tag(border = 0)" /a /dtml-with /body /html This worked many times before ok under 2.1.6 on another site with similar technique. But now I am getting invalid syntax, for tag dtml-var "7Dlogoicon_gif.tag(border=0)", on line 3 of standard_html_footer When I try removing the outer quotes dtml-var 7Dlogoicon_gif.tag(border = 0) Document Template Parse Error invalid parameter: " = 0)", for tag dtml-var 7Dlogoicon_gif.tag(border = 0), on line 3 of standard_html_footer Simply, I need to make sure that every document I put in '/deliverables' can have a localized standard HTML footer with an icon which will link users back up to /deliverables. The icon needs to have a 'border = 0' attribute. help much appreciated thanks - Jason ________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison
Ron yes +thanks for paying keen attention here.. What Manila has done is to provide some reasonable default templates for getting useful site development work done 'out of the box' - they have provided a structure template, and well defined access to changing the obvious things people want to change. I see. Having higher level drop-in Web sites, IMO, is a job for add-on Zope products that could be created by DC or the community to meet various needs (as in Squishdot like projects). As the Zope community grows, I have no doubt that more add-on products for "Web sites in a can" will pop up. Exactly. My concern is to get the right kind of discussion going because it is going to need some differnt kinds of minds to work together. I can only guess that most Zope users are either not designers or are so filled with awe over its power that they forget to put effort into beauty. :-) I think Zope lends itself more to the programmer and content provider types, and leaves the designer with nothing special to desire. I don't say that in a bad way, but Zope isn't a design tool, so designers have no special interest in learning to use it. As Zope makes its way into more businesses with design teams, pretty design will make its way into more Zope sites. Problem is am not sure Zopie will make its way into more businesses wiht design teams if it is such a pain in the $# to get sites sketched out. A really valuable feature which Zope could offer is Site-Sketching You do the back of napkin whiteboard 'design' of the main site architecture hierharchy functioning. Now you need to map it out in 'dummy' mode so everyone can get to work playing with it and working on the bits they are all best at. You know you are going to make changes and so you want to benfit from object abstraction from the get go You know in house team and design [visual + code] will force changes not to mention clients.. Then start throwing database at it - look and feel vs. satabase search menchaisms etc. This can be expensive time consumign stuff.. things people need to apply samrt reusable components to.. but which also allow them to get down very fingraoned and adjust = zope I think there is a big demand for this kind of up and running toolset. A zope folder full images or navigation widgets or search form elements are the type of things yu want to do a single copy paste or import on. I am a designer who has a special interest in learning to use. I do not see many other tools with this potential, but in its present state and my present programming skills, I am still a little short of being able to take Zope where I see it can go on my own. I hope this changes soon.. My understanding is that DC has been putting so much of their resources into the Zope core, much needed documentation, and probably their consulting business, that their own Web site has been left with a lower priority. I don't fault them for that. I think they've done a great job at prioritizing. Granted. The price is right and there is some hairy stuff under the hood. I just hope DC can step back a bit more from time to time to see where they fit in from other perspectives also. I realize their income comes from consulting. They could apply their expertise [or others] to package off useful stuff for a reasonable price. Zope products coudl be very cost efefctive all around - those with teh time and skills can develope their own. Perhaos you are right adn it is still a little early yet.. maybe next year.. And if you select yes you will get 'index_html' and 'acl_users' included.. THIS is the entry point I am talking about The 'Add a Folder' page needs to offer more so that it can default to the immediate bones of a useful site, methods and links. The irony to I think the "bones of a useful site" belong in a different object than a Folder, though I agree that specialized products/objects for canned sites would be a nice addition to the Zope products list, whether from DC or the community. Yes. How about : - 'Add Bones object' - 'Add Navigation Object' - Add Styles object' - 'Add Report Object' - 'Add WebSite Object' Any one else interested to go further with this? kind regards - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison
Exactly. My concern is to get the right kind of discussion going because it is going to need some differnt kinds of minds to work together. This meshes with my thinking recently. I think many in the Zope community are "early-adopters" kind of people -- willing to put up with spending time to know the ins and outs of DTML or python programmers who would do most in python. A python programmer or early adopter does not a typical web design team make. Personally. I like the notion of a DTML an that you can do a little business logic there if you choose to. This issue with DTML in my mind is that its syntax/semantics design throws people for loops that can waste their time for sometimes days. Early adopters will go through this trial by fire. I did and now on the other side I know the gotchas. Early adopters are a special breed of people that will give a new product a ring of success but this pool saturates easily, leading a new company to the chasm. Well put. To cross the chasm, and reach a broader audience, this trial by fire phase of becoming a productive Zope user has to be reduced -- in addition to addressing other productivity parts of the bigger product pie mentioned in prior messages. If you are interested in understanding the business of Crossing the Chasm, I would recommend a book by the same name. I think the Zope story is still unfolding on how an open source product will cross the chasm. Regards, Albert Boulanger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for this. It looks interesting. Google came up with: http://www.testing.com/writings/reviews/moore-chasm.html http://www.mit.edu/people/wdc/chasm.html and a lot of other funny stuff I recommend Don Norman's "The Invisble Computer". It belongs on teh same shelf next to 'Crossing the Chasm'. regards - JASon ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison
Hi Nils
thanks for your reply
What's missing?
For example, everything with Java (e.g. Apple WebObjects) or
Perl (e.g. Mason).
[doh] Java..Right [see what using zope does to one ? ;-)
There is a good overview of Content Management Systems at
http://www.camworld.com/cms/
Excellent. Thanks very much for this.
and supplying a magic_phrase = 'Content Management System'
For each of above I'd like to fill in the following:
{'name':"name", 'features':{feature dict},'pro':[pros],
'con':[cons] }
That's a bit difficult to do because we don't know what you
want to do with a CMS/web application platform. Manila, for
instance, is a nice end-user weblog application but not a
replacement for a real web app server.
Yes of course not.
But imagine one meets up with a small group of experienced people who have
all been working around Content Management Systems, are in Zope and are
tracking the developments both potential and RealWorld(tm). The you ask them
ok to get started can please resume for me zope and alternative systems
according you whatever priorities/experiences you wish. That conversation is
_not_ going to read like a research document. It is going be opinionated,
informed, direct and typically subjectively prioritized.. and damn helpful
I agree about Manila.
pros = ['good idea', 'great community', 'cool interesting RealWorld sites',
'designer-savvy', 'very user friendly' ]
cons = ['mac/win only', 'does not scale well to become 'real' web app
server', etc..]
What is very impressive is that it has focused on some real end user need
and answered that in large part. Zope could learn a lot from Manila.
[Zopefish etc]. Mostly Zope imho is just plain damn ugly out of the box...
like some ghost from the 70s - zero graphics sense.. it s a bitch to make a
decventlooking page in zope when it shouldn't be, not one nice looking zope
site I have visited yet vs. all those nice looking nice reading Weblogs.
Why?? Well Zope is very cool and powerful adn full of potential but try to
use it and even seasoned programmers become unraveled in obfuscated syntax,
etc etc.
I love what Zope represents, what it _can_ do, but I do not like what I see
people actually doing with it. This continues to bother me and I keep my eye
on where the alternatives are going for much the same reasons. Jeff Shelton
has been putting up great service with his ZopeNewbies page. Not an accident
that he is running it on Manila - because Manila makes it easy to set this
stuff up and keep it going. Zope does not.
In part the difference are that Manila attracts a more aesthetically
[visually] aware crowd than Zope. Zope is geeky and damn proud of it. Zope
rocks but there are no rocking zope sites that I can tell. Please correct me
if I am wrong.
[yes I am Awaiting some real news about CBS etc]
But look at the 'Case Studies' page..
It is not even titled 'Sites using Zope'
instead "The following are a list of case studies in which Zope provided the
solution."
Reading between the lines it does not inspire great confidence. Nor does
there appear to
Is the problem with the tool the technology or the users??
It is not an either or question - its a synergy issue.. But Zope does
nothing to encourage one alas nor do the examples out there, [yet].
Imagine if the home page at www.zope.org was built using Manila?
I'll bet it would be more dynamic more readable, more fun, more useful that
it is now. Even having a damn calendar to browse through developments, news
adn changes would be good. Not to mention the decidedly dead and strange
style and links. What a shame. But it does not stop me loving what is cool
about zope or trying to use it.
But as soon as more Manila-like Zope comes along I am likely going to jump
ship, because Zope is expensive to run. I am not talking about the free
price, I am talking about the counter-intuitive chaotically undocumented
nature of Zope.
And that costs developer time wickedly..Yes I know it is changing and
improving and I am holding on and hanging in there, hoping a) it improves
and b) I improve..
If was more adept in DTML was I could put up a comparative poll page
though
I suspect most here would respond like you Nils.
I'm only an innocent Computer Science student who still thinks
that in Real Life (tm) outside university you research competing
solutions before selecting a product :-)
Of course you are right in this respect. We did that and
For-what-we-wanted-to-do, Zope met the most important criteria. But our
Project proposal was written and given the initial green light over 1 year
ago. It was an experiment to use zope then , and the experiment is still
running.
In brief I continue to be very impressed by portable import/export features
of Zope.
But we have elected to use External Methods to bypass lack-of-confidence and
some of the headaches we experienced doing things with DTML. We like the
resultant stretegy as it play sto both our own strengths and Zope's
strengths we think.
So
Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison
Completely calm and friendly opinions follow... yes thanks.. I don't think it's any more difficult to create an attractive (graphics-wise) site in Zope than it is with PHP or ASP or plain old Apache-served HTML files. Quite honestly, I'm not qualified to do it with any tool. :-) I get the feeling that a lot of people expect Zope to design sites for them. Maybe they're expecting too much. Or maybe I'm expecting too little??? Or maybe it's that most of the people using Zope today (like me) are not pretty-site designers, but people that want a powerful tool to manage the most important part of a site...content. I agree absolutely that Zope is on level with PHP, ASP apacheHTML in terms of ease. My point is that Zope allows one to create powerful highlevel functionality at many levels, wrapping, hiding, abstracting, reusing, modularizing things which potentially could allow graphic designers to jump in and do great work. But out of the box it does not and for perhaps cultural reasons will not..Zope is largely based on reusable templates, and chunks of 'smart-html' better known as DTML. What Manila has done is to provide some reasonable default templates for getting useful site development work done 'out of the box' - they have provided a structure template, and well defined access to changing the obvious things people want to change. Perhaps the only product which does for Zope is Squishdot.. and I think that largely explains why most Zope sites are Squishdot or modified squishdot sites. I do not believe it is content vs. style.. I really think it is a matter of Zope programmers working with graphics and web site interface designers to create some much more accessible site templates. I fear that without these Zope will be missing a great opportunity to extend itself into RealWorld web applications. It _has_ the capability but lacks the real benefits in the zope community 2-way dialogue between content managers and content presenters. The point of view is wonderful, but rather one sided. Zope is not to blame for what people have done with it on the visual side. Content is far more important than visual appeal. I see too many companies (many of my clients) ignoring this and focusing way too much on layout, placement of images, colors, cute JavaScript menus and other fancy stuff. I'm not saying these things are not at all important. Browsing an unattractive, sloppily layed out site with lots of useful information is annoying and distracting. But it's *far* better than browsing a fancy, "attractive" site that has nothing to offer other than sparse information, pretty images and slow viewing time. Yes and Yes. But be careful not to ignore the implications that the medium is [part of] the message. Style _is_ part of the content. Depends on who and what your audience is. In so far as websites are [virtual] places, the look and feel of the environment does matter. Where people get carried away to either extreme they will surely fall off those edges. The invisible server-side aspects of sites will only be visible as experienced functionality by end users. But the visible client-side is all they will ever touch. yin and yang. How they fit together is where the magic lies. It takes a diversity of talents and perspectives to make this work. Content not style is a great mantra - but it leads to content without style [and vice versa] and who wants that? I did not say it had to be complex or excessive.. Less is more and much harder to design often. The problem is that to achieve good minimal design requires a lot of iterations. People are looking for new interface paradigms and also better tools to allow them to find them, and subsequently explore them when they do. This means tools with the flexibility of zope but not in it its present state of awareness. It's the site designers. Zope isn't designed for assistance in creating attractive sites. It's designed for creating manageable sites. It's completely up to the designers to make it attractive, using tools designed to do so. Zope (in my experience) does nothing to limit the ability to make a site attractive, but it does do buckets for increasing manageability. Yes. I quite agree..But why are there no attractive Zope sites? My argument is that zope does nothing to HELP one's ability to make a site attractive. Actually it does limit one's ability. for example look at even the syntax for making an image object borderless? it aunt obvious.. and it could/should be part of the image object properties --or how about a rollover button.. Yes that is a JavaScript problem perhaps, but what about including that as a BASIC feature of modern websites. But imagine if that alone was made easier by zope. Navigation bar objects would be another big plus. Or how about a web page 'Table object' which made allowed one rapidly to group and include other zope object in a useful and productive way. This is not gratuitous graphics this is stuff
[Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison
Hello I need to present the arguments for why we haev chosen Zope vs. Others. Does anyone know of a clear at-a-glance table or anything with the main contenders, features, price, licensing etc. Thanks - Jason Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison
I need to present the arguments for why we haev chosen Zope vs. Others.
Does anyone know of a clear at-a-glance table or anything with the main
contenders, features, price, licensing etc.
You didn't collect this data _before_ choosing Zope? :-)
lol
not really.. back then it seemed obvious to me why to try zope what's
interesting about it:
zope_pros = ['idea', 'free', 'openSource', 'Zserver', 'ZODB', 'x-platform',
'persistence',
'python', 'DTML', 'community', 'zopezen', 'scale and scope', 'easy install',
'External Methods', '.zexp files']
and what's to watch out for
zope_cons = ['DTML', 'documentation', 'lack of books', 'lack of demonstrable
large
commercial or cool sites', 'lack of visual design sense' 'versionitis',
'zopezen', 'learning curve', 'DTML interface/edit-test cycle']
...to be clearer in a wide context
As I see it these are the alternative choices:
name
- Zope
- ColdFusion
- ASP
- Roxen
- Vignette
- AOLserver/ArsDigita
- Manila ?
Do you agree?
What's missing?
For each of above I'd like to fill in the following:
{'name':"name", 'features':{feature dict},'pro':[pros],
'con':[cons] }
where
feature dict = {'OS': [], 'Xplatform':[], 'cost':[] , 'sourcecode':[],
'license':[], 'openSource':[]
'version':[], 'scriptinglanguages':[], 'DBconnectivity':[] )
Any takers?
If was more adept in DTML was I could put up a comparative poll page though
I suspect most here would respond like you Nils.
cheers
- Jason
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[Zope] WOWDamn !! ZopeNewbies wakeup
This is for any+all of you new to Zope.. and for those like me who have been struggling with DMTL for too long. I just found a perfect *gemstone* burried in 'Chapter6 - Advanced DTML' of the online sample of the O'Reilly Zope Book at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/AdvDTML/view """ The REQUEST namespace is very useful in Zope since it is the primary way that clients (in this case, web browsers) communicate with Zope by providing form data, cookies and other information about themselves. A very simple and enlightening example is to simply print the REQUEST out in an HTML page: dtml-var standard_html_header dtml-var REQUEST dtml-var standard_html_footer """" Try it...beautiful and yes very enlightening. This should be on www.zope.org PageZero in my opinion I never saw a single line of ZopeDTML which so well demonstrates what it is capable of and why it _is_ cool when you know what to type. Get this book in Print asap please! thanks - Jason PS. Be warned: 8-() if you try put the code above in a DTML methods named 'showREQUEST' or 'show_REQUEST' it will not work = 'Id already in use' ____ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] How to make and populate properties remotely..? 4 questions of the apocalypse..
Hello Hoping some kind enlightened zopistas can point me to existing examples or show me how the syntax works for this: 1. I need to write a simple general method which will allow me to create a property in the parent folder. for example: 'createParentProperty()' DTMLmethod --- dtml with PARENTS[-1] dtml manage_addProperty(Id = 'myNewPopertyName') dtml manage_addProperty(type = 'tokens') dtml manage_addProperty(value = '') dtml-with - 2. Then I need to extend my 'createParentProperty()' method so I can call it from an URL, http POST or GET. I want to pass or fetch the parent folder's property 'Id' name. for example: http://www.zopesite.net/TOP/SUB/PROJECTA/createParentProperty?=id+statistics type=tokens will create a property Id = 'statistics' in PROJECTA folder of my site whose type = 'tokens' but if it exists already it will return a '1' How to do this? 3. Then I need to do the same thing but this time setting or getting the property's 'Value' field via http POST or GET. for example: http://www.zopesite.net/TOP/SUB/PROJECTA/createParentProperty?=id+statistics value+2000september will create a new property id = 'statistics', type = 'tokens', value =' 2000september' but if 'statistics' already exists, the method will just change the value 4. Finally some properties we need to 'lock' so they cannot be overwritten by the above methods. However I do need to check remotely over http if this is so. For example: http://www.zopesite.net/TOP/SUB/PROJECTA/createParentProperty?=id+adminvalu e+2000September will return an integer '2' or string such as : 'locked' or "property id = 'admin' is locked" where: 0 = does not exist 1 = exists 3 = locked How to do this? ...ideally there there should be a separete method we can call to lock or unlock a property for admin use over http Thanks for any help..deadlines loom.. - Jason ________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Ad banners in Zope anyone ?
Hello I am glad to see any new web site anoncements using Zope. For example the new Malaysian news service at http://www.emedia.com.my/ Out of curiosity I checked to see how they handled their ad banners: a href="/phpAds/click.php3"img src="/phpAds/phpads.php3?what=NST" border="0" width="468" height="60" It looks like this is perhaps some instant cut-and-paste of exsiting PHP tools tacked onto the Zope Server. If it ain't broke don't fix it..and DTML aint pretty we know.. - Can one run PHP from inside of Zserver/ZODB easily? - How would to do that? - Is anyone using Zope for Ad Banner services?? - What would would make it a good or bad choice? thanks Jason ________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Small Tip
THANK YOU!!! - Jason Maik Roeder wrote: It always got on my nerves that I needed to change the column size of the DTML Method and DTML Document Edit Forms manually by pressing "Wider" and "Narrower". Instead of patching the Zope source code, I found the following a good approach: Define a property in your root folder: id: dtpref_cols type: int value: 80 The magic of acquisition does all the rest ;-) Or how about this (from Evan Simpson): In OFS/documentEdit.dtml change the line that reads: TEXTAREA NAME="data:text" WRAP="Off" to: TEXTAREA NAME="data:text" WRAP="Off" STYLE="width: 100%" This should make the edit box expand automatically to the full width in browsers that support this property, including IE 5.x and Mozilla but not Netscape 4.x. Shane ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Looping through a folder's contents...
Hello
oops!.. I just tried this and now I am getting error messages saying "not
authorized" to access 'objectValues' - stranger yet seems to have broken my
login to Zope - so I am locked out from even getting back into the site to
fix ..hmm this can't be right.
I had put the Recurse_SubFolder method at top level, hoping to use it
liberally through the site. I then made a call to it from my site's root
index_html
Any ideas how to restore my Zope?
TIA
- Jason
- Original Message -
From: Andrew Kenneth Milton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Looping through a folder's contents...
+---[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]--
| I would like to loop through the contents of a folder, and the
| contents of the subfolders of that folder. I know I can do this to a
| singular level by doing something like:
|
| dtml-in "subfolder.objectValues('Folder')"
| dtml-var title
| /dtml-in
|
| Should give me a list of the titles of all the subfolders of the
| folder called "subfolder". So, once I get there, how do I loop
| through the subobjects of each of those folders?
|
| In other words, I have a subfolder inside of the folder called
| "subfolder" and I want to see the contents of that folder. How do I
| do it?
I'll give you the general case for 'all' folders:-
Make a Method... Recurse_SubFolder.
dtml-in "root.objectValues('Folder')"
dtml-in "_.range(depth)"nbsp;/dtml-indtml-var title
dtml-var "Recurse_SubFolder(root=this(),depth=depth+1)"
/dtml-in
-
dtml-var "Recurse_SubFolder(root=subfolder, depth=0)"
You can obviously expand this to also take a 'type' for objectValues,
and pass the namespace etc.
--
Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew
Milton
The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 |
ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon
PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]|
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[Zope] looking for DTML Property examples
Hello I am looking for some basic examples on using Properties in Zope. For example: How-To write methods which put and get properties, and with these examples of accessing properties via URLs directly as wellas via custom methods. There must be a ton of examples _somewhere_, but somehow, I can't seem to find them and th ORA book is not out yet [praying hard for great index and LOTS of small examples thourhgt the text]. Thanks in advance for any links - Jason Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Import broken by namespace conflict - fragile!
Hello
This is a repost of a serious message I posted on friday.
[The threaded version of this list is corrupted - my message content has
been automatically replaced by another person's message, athough strangely,
the gzip archive is ok.]
Please can someone help us understand how to avoid DTML method names
conflicting with other zope objects with same name.
For example using Zope export/import during recent site development to
transfer work from local machines to the linux server broke sections of our
site in a manner which was very hard to find. The reason we have finally
traced to namespace conflict.
We imported code which included calls to a local zope object named 'swf' for
simple substitution. But suddenly our code did not work. It turned out that
another object identically named 'swf' was an already existing 'folder'
..!!
This is a very disturbing discovery, becuase it implies that one might have
anywhere at anytime hidden or visible namespace conflicts emerging and
vanishing with no control. We had thought that dtml-with
something/dtml-with would avoid this. But it does not and may even cause
it! It also implies that makes development of Zope sites across various
machines very hit-or-miss
Please help..
Exact code dump follows...
1. I have an original DTML template called 'objembedswf' in a folder named
'Flash4'
OBJECT ID='login' CLASSID='clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354'
CODEBASE='http://active.macromedia.com/flash2/cabs/swflash.cab#version=3,0,0
,0'
WIDTH=dtml-var width HEIGHT=dtml-var height
PARAM NAME='Movie' VALUE='dtml-var swf'
PARAM NAME='Play' VALUE='false'
PARAM NAME='Quality' VALUE='best'
PARAM NAME='swLiveConnect' VALUE='true'
PARAM NAME='menu' VALUE='false'
EMBED NAME='login' mayscript='mayscript' SRC='dtml-var swf'
swLiveConnect='true'
WIDTH='100%' HEIGHT='100%' salign='t' quality='best' play='false'
menu='false'
TYPE='application/x-shockwave-flash'
pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_
Version=ShockwaveFlash'
/EMBED
/OBJECT
2. Below this my DTML file includes calls to this template like this:
dtml-with Flash4
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('swf','login.swf')"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('width','100%')"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('height','100%')"
dtml-var objembedswf
/dtml-with
3. Here is the result of substitution returned in browser
OBJECT ID='login' CLASSID='clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354'
CODEBASE='http://active.macromedia.com/flash2/cabs/swflash.cab#version=3,0,0
,0'
WIDTH=100% HEIGHT=100%
PARAM NAME='Movie' VALUE='Folder instance at 8557b00'
PARAM NAME='Play' VALUE='false'
PARAM NAME='Quality' VALUE='best'
PARAM NAME='swLiveConnect' VALUE='true'
PARAM NAME='menu' VALUE='false'
EMBED NAME='login' mayscript='mayscript' SRC='Folder instance at
8557b00' swLiveConnect='true'
WIDTH='100%' HEIGHT='100%' salign='t' quality='best' play='false'
menu='false'
TYPE='application/x-shockwave-flash'
pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_
Version=ShockwaveFlash'
/EMBED
/OBJECT
I draw you attention to the fact that dtml-var swf was supposed to be
subsituted with 'login.swf', but instead became Folder instance at
8557b00
..ouch..
4. The reason appears to be that there is a namespace conflict elsewhere in
my Zope tree. As it turns out, we have a folder right under / called 'swf'.
In fact it could be many places and still cause a conflict.
This 'bug/feature' is the same under Zope 2.1.6, and Zope 2.2.0 in Win98se
and LinuxRedhat.
Is it something about dtml-with or perhaps our use of dtml-call
"REQUEST.set which creates this unpredictable and confusing effect?
Is this is a bug? As it stands it means is is very hard to have people
working on separate sections of a Zope site because at any time they might
be causing namespace collisions like this. In our case the effect was
obvious - our swf files immedaitely woudl not display. But other voodoo
could easily occur which migh not appear for some time.
It provokes me to ask simply what is the search path priority of object
acquistion in zope and how do you control it safely?
Thank you
- Jason Cunliffe
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[Zope] IRC Chat - tools[win32]
quote Jim Fulton and Paul Everett are going to be availiabe for a chat at Wednesday, May 31 at 1:00 PM EST on the #zope channel of irc.openprojects.net. /quote I have not used IRC before, but would love to join the chat session. I just just downloaded a trial version of 'mIRC' software for Win32 from http://www.mirc.co.uk which seems to work ok. For the benefit of any other IRC newbies like me on Win32, hre are some trivial how-to notes help 1. Under 'options' menu select category=connect and then click 'Add' 2. Description = anynameyouwant, server = irc.openprojects.net, port=6667[default, works ok], grouppassword = blank 3.This will return you to 'options' menu select category=connect. Enter your name and email etc..Then select new server named anynameyouwant from the pop-up menu, and click 'Connect to IRC Server' button 4. A window with scrolling list named "mIRC Channels Folder" should appear.For the first time type "#zope" in the field titled "Enter name of channel to join".. #zope will be added to the list. 5. Now select #zope from the scrolling list and click the 'Join' button Voila..! You should now be in the zope chat window - other users will be listed on right hand margin help irseeya - Jason ________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] WebObjects
Hello Now that Apple has slashed the price of WebObjects from $50,000 to $700, I am very interested to hear any opinions/experiences of WebObjects.. how does it compare with Z*** , Man***, Rox**, ColdF* etc http://www.apple.com/webobjects/ -What are the good ideas? -What is similar? -What is different? -How does WebObjects handle integration with various scripting languages: Python, Perl etc -What effect you think Apple's announcement wil have on webapp market and development? Thanks in advance for any feedback - Jason Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re:[Zope] A similar issue with Perl for Zope
Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Jon Udell wrote: BTW, there is essentially no difference between VBScript, JavaScript, PerlScript, or PythonScript when used at this level. All can make the same CreateObject call, and diddle the controlled app's object model in the same ways. It ends up not being a language issue at all, but more a case of, as I said, what the heck is that object model anyway, and then why doesn't it behave as expected? This is such a good point I wanted to share it with the Zope community as well. The language issue is minor to the need for a definate object model with clear interfaces. It shouldn't matter if the core of Zope is written in Python or FORTH, from your perspective and the perspective of your language the model and interfaces should be well definded. Amen! - consistent object model - a map of the damn thing, with a poster of same which you can hang on your wall can meditate to - consistent interface syntax you can learn in 10 minutes and then repeat ad infinitum as you explore the map - "apples-for-apples" examples with side-by-side scripting language use [VBScript, JavaScript,PerlScript, PythonScript, etc..] - a welcome mat for all linguists - a copy of ZIAN [Zope-In-A-Nutshell] Jason ________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Feedback Requested: Editor Applet for Zope?
- Original Message - From: Heiko Stoermer [EMAIL PROTECTED] My question: Do you like the idea of having a slim java-based editor applet instead of the textarea? (NO, not a 400k editor with WYSIWYG preview and an exotic scripting engine - it's supposed to be _very_ slim) Please give me feedback on this, because if the community wants such a thing, I might start working on it. Thanks in advance, Heiko Hello Heiko Yes please!. Sounds like a great idea. ..and now for some wishlist slim features: - maximise the text area horizontal + vertical quickly and easily [and then store/fetch the prefs to/from a zope object or method somewheres] - scale type [change font size + font] - some basic coloring or styling please... dtml-iwuyi in colorA, other non-dtml tags in colorB, anythin in "" in colorC, etc. - keep a scrolling list on one margin of DTML so that one can click on items to allow faster more accurate code paste [yes I am a lousy typist adn dtml is _so_ picky] . The list can be preloaded with the obvious and not so obvious and also remembers recent chunks of dtml slilm 'history'. maybe this request puts it over the size limit - but maybe not..:-) goodluck - Jason ________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
