Re: Special character # on ASM names

2017-11-27 Thread Seymour J Metz
Note that there was more than one BCD code; there were even different models of the keypunch depending on whether you wanted a scientific or commercial character set. If you consider other vendors it's even worse. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~s

Re: BDAM files

2017-11-27 Thread Seymour J Metz
VSAM ESDS has a lot of advantages, and BSAM is as efficient as BDAM in many cases. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Sudershan Ravi Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 1:48 PM To

Re: BDAM files

2017-11-27 Thread Seymour J Metz
No, but much of them can with a proper DCBE. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu> Sent: Monday, November 27, 201

Re: BDAM files

2017-11-28 Thread Seymour J Metz
It would help if they had ACB support for BSAM, BPAM and QSAM. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu> Sent:

Re: Access registers

2017-12-04 Thread Seymour J Metz
Originally, to get better than 31-bit addressabillity in 31-bit mode. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Sudershan Ravi Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 11:44 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST

Re: Access registers

2017-12-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
processor. There's a similar degree of variability for memory size, but 256 KiW was a typical limit outside of IBM. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014

Re: Access registers

2017-12-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
The combination of a 4-bit register field and using the same registers for accumulators, base registers and index registers. 4 bit storage protect keys No address translation. Maybe paging was too expensive, but surely block relocation was doable. -- Shmuel (Seymour J

Re: Access registers

2017-12-06 Thread Seymour J Metz
le. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu> Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 6:37 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.ed

Re: Address of a Literal

2017-12-10 Thread Seymour J Metz
Well, macros were omnipresent by the 1960s. When did FAP come along? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Phil Smith Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2017 6:38 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST

Re: Address of a Literal

2017-12-10 Thread Seymour J Metz
PL/I is also character stream oriented, yet PL/I macros make perfect sense. The lack of real macros in C clearly derives from the limited memory on the original DEC platforms. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
UPDATE had a lot of warts, but like IEBUPDTX it was very nice for dealing with independent updates from different programmers. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Mark Boonie Sent

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
I find removing sequence numbers to be unnecessary and even destructive. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Willy Jensen Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 9:08 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
Sequence numbers are useful even if you've never even seen a picture of a Hollerith card. They are convenient for editing, and assembler error messages with sequence numbers make it much easier to fix errors. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~s

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
lease that didn't support the compact memory model, when the compact memory model was the only reason we selected that misbegotten compiler. A real gem. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
The obvious way to support RECFM=VB is for the first 8 columns after the RDW to be the sequence number. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of John McKown Sent: Tuesday, December 12

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
, but that was rare. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 7:50 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Any real need for sequence

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
Wrong on both counts. It is remotely like an image of a deck of punched cards and it has all of the flexibility of RECFM=VB. It's worked well for, e.g., PL/I, for decades, even though IEBUPDTE doesn't support it. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.e

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
Sequence numbers are stable; you can fix errors from front to back and not worry about getting out of synch with the listing or TERM output. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
Yes, among others. Supported by TSO EDIT and ISPF/PDF EDIT, although not by IEBUPDTE. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of John McKown Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:16 PM To

Re: Macro Processors

2017-12-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
e compiler. As John noted, assembler macros have access to the symbol table, which adds an additional degree of flexibility. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Charles Mills Se

Re: Any real need for sequence numbers in 73-80 any more?

2017-12-13 Thread Seymour J Metz
Update expects sequence numbers in the last 8 columns, alas. @@@# or . -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.

Re: Macro Processors

2017-12-13 Thread Seymour J Metz
Script is Turing complete, so in a pinch you can do things that you don't normally think of as document processing, e.g., generating backup schedules. I much prefer a good markup language to a WYSIAYG word processor. Take m$ office - please! -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gm

Re: Macro Processors

2017-12-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
As with Perl, I consider LaTeX to be ugly but too useful to ignore. I've even used LaTeX to design shirts. (I use MiKTeX.) -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of John McKown

Re: Macro Processors

2017-12-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
No. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:04 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.u

Re: LT Instruction After Compare And Swap

2017-12-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
Why not, e.g., ARR? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:57 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: LT Instruction After

Re: LT Instruction After Compare And Swap

2017-12-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
Absolutely. If you hold a lock then you must take that into account, -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 4:16 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST

Re: Who'da Thunk about COBOL here? [was Re: Macro processor]

2017-12-20 Thread Seymour J Metz
The volumes are irrelevant. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 11:30

Re: Who'da Thunk about COBOL here? [was Re: Macro processor]

2017-12-20 Thread Seymour J Metz
True, but how many shops these days have uncataloged DASD datasets? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu>

Re: Who'da Thunk about COBOL here? [was Re: Macro processor]

2017-12-20 Thread Seymour J Metz
How many applications dynamically allocate concatenations of tape datasets? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu>

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Macro processor

2017-12-22 Thread Seymour J Metz
Of course, and if your security profiles aren't right than you have more serious issues than DYNALLOC. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Swarbrick, Frank Sent: Thursday, Dec

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-23 Thread Seymour J Metz
"C has macros" FSVO. Certainly anybody that has used the macro facilities of, e.g., HLASM, PL/I, would find the C preprocessor to be a pitiable excuse for a macro language. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-23 Thread Seymour J Metz
PL/X is close to PL/I and not at all close to C. PL/X also includes imbedded HLASM. I have no idea what the percentages are, but MVS is written in a mixture of C, HLASM, Pascal (probably gone) and PL/X (under various names). -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
lar to any assembler that I used in the last half century. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Martin Ward Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 4:26 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
Yes and no. If complicated operations are coded inside macros, the macro can generate different code for different targets. BTDT,GTTS. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Ed Jaffe

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-25 Thread Seymour J Metz
gh Ruby is certainly not as portable as Perl. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Bernd Oppolzer Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 1:57 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Fair

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-25 Thread Seymour J Metz
ity. It can be argued that the 650 was a more powerful machine than the 7030, but will anybody believe the argument? "Must have missed the DEC PDP and VAX line..." Close but no cigar. The C preprocessor is also grossly inferior to, e.g., Macro-11. E Unibus plurum. -- Shmu

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-26 Thread Seymour J Metz
IMHO IBMAP, Assembler (XF) and Assembler (H) stack up pretty well against Macro-11. I'd rank the S/360 instruction set as better than the PDP-11 but not as good as the VAX-11. Shirley you mean tools for manipulating SGML, e.g., XSLT, rather than SGML itself. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.)

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-28 Thread Seymour J Metz
"fstat() the image file to get its size" What if it isn't an image file, or any other kind of DASD file. Unix has other kinds of files for which there is no way to know the size a priori. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 __

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-28 Thread Seymour J Metz
r via DAIR, via BPXWDYN or directly via SVC 99, e.g., MACRF. Likewise the have options that are not relevant to the DCB macro. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-29 Thread Seymour J Metz
While the DOS I/O was very device dependent, there was the DTFDI with limited device independence. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Steve Thompson Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-29 Thread Seymour J Metz
WTF? IMS was well before the 1970's, to say nothing of the database for SABRE. Outside of IBM there was at least one database on GCOS (nee GECOS). -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behal

Re: Device Independence

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
Back on the S/360, specifically on the 360/67, there was an operating system called TSS/360 that had a virtual partitioned access method (VPAM), which included VIPAM; keys within a member. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
Perhaps he was referring to the 360/20 and 360/44, which did not have the full basic S/360 instruction set. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Robin Vowels Sent: Wednesday, January

Re: Device Independence

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
When you open a DCB for a JES file, OPEN creates an ACB in the same address space. The JES code in support of the open ACB runs partially in the user's address and partially in the JES address space. The details depend, among other things, on which JES you are using. -- Shmuel (Seym

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
No language encourages good coding practices. You want good coding, start with good training and good management. A bad language, e.g., C, can make it harder, but a good language does not suffice in the absence of other factors. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
ymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Gord Tomlin Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 12:59 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM On 2018-01-30 12:33, Kirk Wolf

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
Well, perhaps I should have written *limited* instead of limited. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu> Sent:

Pu

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
I sometimes add references to Wikipedia articles and would like to know whether there is a URL for a current z Principles of Operations manual that does not require an IBM userid. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: Pu

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
Thanks. Why don't you think it's helpful? I might prefer BM to PDF, but IBM doesn't do that anymore. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of John McKown Sent: Wednes

Re: Pu

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
That gets to the previous edition. The one John gave is the one I wanted. Thanks. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Ken Huff <5nak301...@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, Janu

Re: Pu

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
Thanks, but it's the old one. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Mark Hammack Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 4:21 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Pu H

Re: Pu

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
I see your point. I was thinking in terms of quoting text, but it would be nice to also provide a sectionurl in the {{cite}}. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of John McKown Sent

Re: Pu

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
As with the PDF, I'd include the URL in the citation: {{cite book|title=foo|url=bar}} or {{cite book|title=f00|url=bar|sectionurl=baz}}, plus lots of other parameters. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Main

Re: Pu

2018-01-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
018-01-31, at 14:46:35, Seymour J Metz wrote: > I see your point. I was thinking in terms of quoting text, but it would be > nice to also provide a sectionurl in the {{cite}}. > Google finds oodles of PDF-to-HTML converters. But, intellectual property. And what would you do if you got the HTML? -- gil

Re: Pascal

2018-02-02 Thread Seymour J Metz
I prefer the PL/I solution, does not specify how they are implementedrr, only how they behave. Other languages, e.g., Icon, Perl, do the same thig. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-02 Thread Seymour J Metz
The descriptor was part of the implementation, not part of the language. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Robin Vowels Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:09 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST

Re: Pascal

2018-02-02 Thread Seymour J Metz
Sure, if you're doing ILC then you need to deal with implementations of the various languages. But that doesn't excuse making the implementation part of the language. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-02 Thread Seymour J Metz
That deepends on what you mean by debugging facilities. PL/I has features bthat help in debugging, but a good debugger has a lot more. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Robin

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-04 Thread Seymour J Metz
As an example, some debuggers log a trace of the program and allow you to scroll the log back from the point of failure in order to track down when, where and how variables acquired unexpected values. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
It would help if IBM would add the QUAL statement from IBMAP, but that would still not give you the OOP paradigm. or scoping. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
You just mentioned a macro language whose name is the letter m followed by a digit. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of John McKown Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 12:17 PM To

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
The 8088 had a repeat instruction that made character move loops faster than they would otherwise have been, but not as fast as what you would expect from SS instructions. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-08 Thread Seymour J Metz
WTF? Since when does Algol 60 store local variables on a heap. Note that the original wiki article does not mention the heap. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu

Re: OOP

2018-02-08 Thread Seymour J Metz
Why not OOREXX on Linux? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu> Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:48 PM To: ASS

Re: Man or boy test (was: Fair comparison C vs HLASM)

2018-02-08 Thread Seymour J Metz
PL/I has procedure parameters but not call by name. Algol 60 has call by name but not call by reference. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <0014e0e4a59b-dm

Re: Man or boy test

2018-02-08 Thread Seymour J Metz
PL/I is an Algol 60 descendent and has nested function declarations and function references, but not call by name (which the code didn't exploit) or constant/function dualism. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From

Re: OOP in HLASM

2018-02-08 Thread Seymour J Metz
ition" isn't a definition, it's simply a list of purport6ed benefits. There are theological arguments about the one true definition, but there is a broad consensus that it includes classes, methods, objects, messages and inheritance. -- Shmuel (Seymo

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-08 Thread Seymour J Metz
it selectively. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Robin Vowels Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 7:30 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM From:

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-08 Thread Seymour J Metz
WTF? How are CLC, MVC, TR and TRT not string instructions? Or do you only consider it to be a string if it conforms to the abominable C use of 0 as a string delimiter? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe

Re: Strings (was : Fair comparison C vs HLASM)

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
cause a string to not be a string? If you'd ever had to deal with start-stop terminals that require delays you'd understand how bizarre the claim is. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3  From: IBM Mai

Re: Man or boy test

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
erent every time that the routine referred to it. with a different value of the integration variable. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Martin Ward Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:

Re: Strings (was : Fair comparison C vs HLASM)

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
I would argue that EBCDIC is intrinsically superior to ASCII. I would also argue that it is not intrinsically superior to, e.g., ISO-8859-15. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul

Re: Strings (was : Fair comparison C vs HLASM)

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
hmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Raulerson Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 9:03 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Strings (was : Fair comparison C vs HLASM) Sen

Re: Strings (was : Fair comparison C vs HLASM)

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
code pages. I insist on precision because of having been burnt too many times by people who didn't. I notice that there has been a lot of traffic here relating to code pages, and adding to the confusion doesn't help. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 __

Re: Man or boy test

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
I found the article to be clear. Unfortunately, it is also wrong, and I've added a comment to the talk page. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Richard Kuebbing Sent: F

Re: Man or boy test

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
It really is call by name. In your case, the name is "RAND()" The name in question is an expression (well, a closure) rather than it's value or a location containing its value. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ___

Re: Strings (was : Fair comparison C vs HLASM)

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
I already answered that question; I don't consider EBCDIC code pages to be intrinsically superior to most other 8-bit code pages. The reason that it's superior to ASCII is that ASCII is 8 bit. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.e

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
ing) are all instructs and all work with null terminated strings. " And comma delimited strings, and LF delimited strings. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Paul Raulerson Sent:

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-09 Thread Seymour J Metz
None of the inst5ructions mentioned have their lengths determined at compile time. If I do an EX of a CLC, it remains a CLC. How does a string stop being a string if I remove the VARYING keyword? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: Man or boy test

2018-02-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
How is ABS(-7) a valid reference? It would be valid if B were call by name or call by value, but not for call by reference. Now some compilers would assign the value to a temporary variable, but I question whether that would be call by reference. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
muel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Robin Vowels Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:25 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM From: "Seymour J

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
for a good and sufficient reason, and it wasn't as a string terminator. It already is a control character; K&R hijacked it for a different use in C. There are a lot of control characters that I wouldn't use in a document, e.g., BELL. That doesn't mean that they aren't charac

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
imitations in. e.g., SuperC, relevant? Usually character strings are defined as strings of characters. MVST et al also wok with comma delimited strings and LF delimited strings. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe

Re: Call by name

2018-02-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
Call by name, yes. Lazy evaluation, no. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Martin Ward Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 6:56 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Call by

Re: Fair comparison C vs HLASM

2018-02-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
You may believe whatever you want, but that won't change the facts. There's a difference between an explanation and an unsupported assertion. EDMK works on raw data with not attributes. Would you claim that it is not a (packed) decimal instruction? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.)

Call by name

2018-02-13 Thread Seymour J Metz
valid only on the right. In languages with call by reference and with procedure parameters, this becomes a non-issue: A[I]+1 is not a valid reference. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: Call by name

2018-02-14 Thread Seymour J Metz
The two values are the address of a thunk and the stack frame of the caller. You could pass two thunks and the stack frame, but you can't just pass the thunks. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler

Re: Call by name

2018-02-14 Thread Seymour J Metz
You're thinking of Pascal. In Algol 60 labels could certaainly be integers, but didn't have to be. Instead of designing Pascal to make GOTO less necessary, Wirth just made it more dangerous )-: -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.e

Re: Call by name

2018-02-15 Thread Seymour J Metz
Numeric labels are okay for write-only code. They are very bad in code that has to be maintained. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Bernd Oppolzer Sent: Wednesday, February 14

Re: Solution OOP in HLASM

2018-02-15 Thread Seymour J Metz
the claim. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Jon Perryman Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 10:48 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Solution OOP in HLASM Real

Re: Call by name

2018-02-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
w-away. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Robin Vowels Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:47 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@listserv.uga.edu Subject: Re: Call by name From: "Seymour J Met

Re: Labels

2018-02-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
I've been at shops that assign labels win ascending order. A few months of maintenance and they're out of order. Even when they are in order they're harder to understand than mnemonic labels. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.

Re: Labels

2018-02-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
Well, if you don't care about how hard it is to maintain or about the error rate in maintenance then it doen't matter. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Robin Vowels Se

Re: Enhanced Macro Library

2018-02-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
ITYM "OS/360 FORTRAN G"; PCP, MFT and MVT all had the same compilers. Those macros could be HASP II V3, HASP II V4 or JES2. My guess would be HASP II V3. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assemble

Re: Last modified timestamp of a module

2018-02-20 Thread Seymour J Metz
AMBLIST will work, but PDS86 or StarTool will give you a more consistent listing. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Dougie Lawson Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 11:26 AM To

Re: Two string instruction questions

2018-03-14 Thread Seymour J Metz
If your search string is less than 256 bytes then CUSE should work, if I am reading th PoOps correctly. Set R0 to the length of the search string. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of

Re: Two string instruction questions

2018-03-14 Thread Seymour J Metz
I don't recall seeing "at same offset" in the PoOps. I'll double check and, if appropriate, send an RCF. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent:

Re: SDWA - SDWACMPC conversion

2018-04-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
Keep in mind that UNPK swaps bits 0-3 of the right byte with bits 4-7. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Keven Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 4:15 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST

Re: SDWA - SDWACMPC conversion

2018-04-13 Thread Seymour J Metz
Unpacking x'0123' gives you x'F0F132'; the OI then gives you x'F0F1F2'; what you want is x'F0F1F2F3'. Or with an UNNPK length of 4 you get x'F0F0F1F2'; still not what you want. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: SDWA - SDWACMPC conversion

2018-04-13 Thread Seymour J Metz
Of course; the standard way to convert binary to hex is the UNPK/TR with a one byte pad. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Martin Ward Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 10:13 AM To

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