2006 21:37:38
To:Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
Damon wrote:
I wanted to comment earlier but...eh...
Please, please do! Knowing your interest in (and extensive knowledge of) the
middle ages, your perspective is valuable to this fascinating
Dan said much that was interesting including:
From the Roman side, I'm not sure why the final war was that
devastating. I
haven't read as much as you have about that era, but the decline
and fall of
the Byzantine empire was more tied to the Byzantine bureaucracy and
the
internal
Richard Baker wrote:
For the whole period of the Dominate, from the end of the troubled
third century until the final war between Rome and Persia, the
military strategy of the Romans was dominated by the Persian
frontier. Even during the period of the fall of the western part of
the
Alberto said:
Great message.
Thank you.
But we all hear from the Roman's point of view. What was the
Persian logic for keeping up a war against Rome? Did they see Rome
as the heirs of Alexander and they wanted to take revenge?
I'm very aware of my bias towards the Romans in my reading
You know, this thread has been going for so long, and apparently I must have
missed a number of emails, so that I have NO idea how the discussion of
Roman/Parthian/Persian/Imperial Arab history came about. I wanted to comment
earlier but...eh...
Damon.
Damon wrote:
I wanted to comment earlier but...eh...
Please, please do! Knowing your interest in (and extensive knowledge of) the
middle ages, your perspective is valuable to this fascinating discussion.
--
Doug
both feet, maru
___
At 10:03 PM Thursday 12/21/2006, Damon Agretto wrote:
You know, this thread has been going for so long, and apparently I must have
missed a number of emails, so that I have NO idea how the discussion of
Roman/Parthian/Persian/Imperial Arab history came about.
Neither do I. (I wasn't even aware
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Baker
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:30 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
Dan said:
I really don't see this. For example, with AQ, the evidence
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ronn!Blankenship
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:51 PM
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Subject: RE: Someone Must Tell Them
Given that, one can see the desire to not just fight defensively
JDG asked:
The survey, of 2,011 international travelers in 16 countries, was
conducted by RT Strategies, a Virginia-based polling firm, for the
Discover America Partnership, a group launched in September with
multimillion-dollar backing from a range of companies that
include the
JDG wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Similarly, I find the notion of bombing a people into democracy and
gratitude stupid. And I really honestly do not believe that Bush's
failure of imagination and my recognition of the same makes me
responsible for
Doug wrote:
AQ wants to prolong
the violence because they are aware that Americans have a
limited amount of patience; that by prolonging the violence
they will force us to leave.
I'll disagree with you here. I do not think that AQ wants the US to
withdraw. Not right now at any rate. A
Finally!
I have been reading excerpts but it took me almost the entire day to
work my way down to this message.
JDG wrote:
Ritu, it seems that you, Nick, and even Dan missed the point here.
The proposition was made here that the US is responsible for all the
deaths currently occuring in
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ritu
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:37 AM
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Subject: RE: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
On the other hand, the policy of sanctions, No-Fly-Zones,
diplomatic
On 11/27/06, jdiebremse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If Iraqis are
killing Iraqis at a stunning rate today, and they are, it is because
the
Coalition enabled such a situation to arise. So, for quite a lot of
us,
all the Iraqi deaths post 2003 are on the Coalition's head.
Okay... Ritu, did
Nick Arnett asked:
Okay... Ritu, did you really mean to say that the Coalition
(not the US,
John) is totally responsible for all of the Iraqis killing
Iraqis these days?
Nope. The Coalition, as I mentioned in the mail John quoted, is
responsible for enabling the situation to arise. This
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ritu
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:37 AM
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Subject: RE: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
JDG wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Much of the world simply isn't able to provide soldiers as most
1st world countries have been cutting back to basically a defence
force, and there have been enough friendly fire incidents in
joint task forces in the past to
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JDG asked:
The survey, of 2,011 international travelers in 16 countries, was
conducted by RT Strategies, a Virginia-based polling firm, for the
Discover America Partnership, a group launched in September with
Ritu wrote:
I'll disagree with you here. I do not think that AQ wants the US to
withdraw. Not right now at any rate. A couple of captured AQ documents
clearly indicate that AQ is hoping that the US stays in Iraq for a long
time to come. The American presence in Iraq is accomplishing what OBL
At 08:39 AM Tuesday 11/28/2006, Dan Minette wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ritu
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:37 AM
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Subject: RE: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
On the other hand
At 10:24 AM Tuesday 11/28/2006, Ritu wrote:
Nick Arnett asked:
Okay... Ritu, did you really mean to say that the Coalition
(not the US,
John) is totally responsible for all of the Iraqis killing
Iraqis these days?
Nope. The Coalition, as I mentioned in the mail John quoted, is
responsible
On 29/11/2006, at 3:54 PM, jdiebremse wrote:
Unfortunately, there is every indication that the force is too
small to
accomplish the job - there remains too few troops, and of the troops
that are there, too few of them are willing to work in the toughest/
most
violent areas.
Yes,
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And that's because the policy of the rest of the world was to
support the reign of terror of Saddam Hussein ad infinitum
Only if you share Bush's Manichean world-view. I don't. But we have
covered this ground earlier, before the
On 11/26/06, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If need be, I can make a general case that our decision making process is
better informed when we do study pact actions and results in such a manner
than when we don't. Indeed, arguing against such a case would reject a
great deal of how we
On 11/27/06, jdiebremse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The proposition was made here that the US is responsible for all the
deaths currently occuring in Iraq.
Cite, please.
I don't recall anybody making any such argument.
Nick
--
Nick Arnett
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Messages: 408-904-7198
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jdiebremse
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:34 AM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And that's
JDG wrote:
Ritu, it seems that you, Nick, and even Dan missed the point here.
The proposition was made here that the US is responsible for all the
deaths currently occurring in Iraq. While this was a reasonable
proposition when the deaths in Iraq were occurring largely as a result of
US
On 27 Nov 2006 at 8:45, Doug wrote:
The sectarian violence now occurring in Iraq was sparked when the
Al-Askari Mosque (the Golden Mosque) was destroyed last February by
Al Qaida. Why did Al Qaida do it? To prolong the violence in Iraq.
Why did they want to prolong the violence? Because of
Andrew wrote:
I wrote:
The sectarian violence now occurring in Iraq was sparked when the
Al-Askari Mosque (the Golden Mosque) was destroyed last February by
Al Qaida. Why did Al Qaida do it? To prolong the violence in Iraq.
Why did they want to prolong the violence? Because of the
Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snippage
(And let me add - wow, on your summary.)
My take is that the radical fringe of Islam is a
sort of cargo cult.
This made me think of J. Diamond's New Guinean frind's
question, wich relates to this:
This is seen most clearly in the case of the
At 08:58 AM Monday 11/27/2006, Nick Arnett wrote:
I'm quite sure that's not needed, since it is common sense that one can
prophet from the past.
Aargh.
-- Ronn! :)
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http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
On 27 Nov 2006 at 12:42, Doug wrote:
Andrew wrote:
I wrote:
The sectarian violence now occurring in Iraq was sparked when the
Al-Askari Mosque (the Golden Mosque) was destroyed last February by
Al Qaida. Why did Al Qaida do it? To prolong the violence in Iraq.
Why did they want to
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, either your
proposing tripling the price of oil in this country, or you are
proposing a policy with about as much near-term relevance for energy
independence as drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
I remember
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There's no question that we are walking
right up to the line, and a decently strong case that we are
crossing
that line, but I'm not sure that any previous generation has
hestitated
to walk right up to the line and
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
but I'd be curious
to see the methodology first. It probably was just an ill-designed
survey
Well, I'll give you what information I have and you can see if you can
hunt down the methodology. This is what the articles say:
The
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Similarly, I find the notion of bombing a people into democracy and
gratitude stupid. And I really honestly do not believe that Bush's
failure of imagination and my recognition of the same makes me
responsible for Saddam's crimes, or
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The world was with you on Afghanistan. You should have finished the
job properly.
Sorry, Charlie, but the world was *not* with us on Afghanistan.Oh
sure, they were there in word - but the world was painfully short of the
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The proposition was made here that the US is responsible for all the
deaths currently occuring in Iraq.
Cite, please.
I don't recall anybody making any such argument.
Nick
Ok
11/22 at 12:37am according to Yahoo!
---
Andrew wrote:
Huh? No, again, you're somehow focusing on AQ hates Americans in
Iraw. They PLAIN HATE AMERICANS. They're prolonging the violence
by attacking Americans because it hurts American interests and
Americans. Iraq happens to be the current best place for them to do
that.
Why do
On 28/11/2006, at 2:52 PM, jdiebremse wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The world was with you on Afghanistan. You should have finished the
job properly.
Sorry, Charlie, but the world was *not* with us on Afghanistan.Oh
sure, they were there in
Charlie said:
Much of the world simply isn't able to provide soldiers as most 1st
world countries have been cutting back to basically a defence
force, and there have been enough friendly fire incidents in
joint task forces in the past to make military forces wary of
combining troops. And
On 28/11/2006, at 6:29 PM, Richard Baker wrote:
Charlie said:
Much of the world simply isn't able to provide soldiers as most
1st world countries have been cutting back to basically a defence
force, and there have been enough friendly fire incidents in
joint task forces in the past to
- Original Message -
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
At 06:09 PM Saturday 11/25/2006, Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Dan
Dan Minette wrote:
Only if you share Bush's Manichean world-view. I don't. But we have
covered this ground earlier, before the invasion.
We have, and I think there is a reasonable view that might address
some of what you and some of what JDG argues for.
Which probably means that
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
At 06:09 PM Saturday 11/25/2006, Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: Someone Must Tell Them
-Original
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Seeberger
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:10 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED
Subject: RE: Someone Must Tell Them
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Minette
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:00 PM
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Subject: RE: Someone Must Tell Them
I remember near term energy independence being
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ritu
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 6:07 AM
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Subject: RE: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
Dan Minette wrote:
Only if you share Bush's Manichean world-view. I don't
On 11/26/06, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... a critical part of this is
accepting the consequences of one's own preferred path, as well as the
consequences of the path one opposes.
Unfortunately, that's based in fantasy because God only knows what would
have happened if another
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Arnett
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 1:49 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
On 11/26/06, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... a critical part
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This strikes me as classic generational arrogance - the old
saw that *our generation* dealt with threats much more
sensibly than the young'uns out there.
Only if you are viewing it from a purely American perspective and are
under
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], pencimen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, if I understand you correctly, your favored strategy in dealing
with Al Qaeda would be to:
-Withdraw immediately from Iraq
I'd give it six months, withdrawing gradually.
And would you still blame us for the number of
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When it becomes plain that the whole idea of terror is to scare
someone, then a look at our *rhetorical* reactions shows that we
are
not stiffening our spines and holding our jaws up sufficiently.
And what happens when the
JDG wrote:
And the substance of his
comments were that previous American generations dealt with
their problems better/nobler/more courageously, etc. than the
current generation.
Actually I saw no generational comparison. The earliest date we can put
on any reference of his in that mail is
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And nobody knows how many Iraqis have been killed by the non-American,
non-Iraqi actors either. But what I do know is that the distinction
made
by you is not being made by the majority of the world. If Iraqis are
killing Iraqis at a
JDG wrote:
And that's because the policy of the rest of the world was to
support the reign of terror of Saddam Hussein ad infinitum
Only if you share Bush's Manichean world-view. I don't. But we have
covered this ground earlier, before the invasion.
Ritu
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], pencimen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, but does anyone remember the red scare, McCarthyism, the
missile gap, air raid drills in schools, backyard nuclear shelters,
the Sputnik gap, We Will Bury You, the domino theory, managed
decline, etc.?
Yet
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell charlie@ wrote:
And so there are some f*ckers out there who have been responsible
for
acts of terror causing the deaths of a few hundred people worldwide
on top of the WTC attacks.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And compared to just about any other cause of death
you can think of, terrorism is way way down the list.
This reminds me of an article I read this morning - international
travellers were polled and it turns out that most consider US
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This strikes me as classic generational arrogance - the old saw
that
*our generation* dealt with threats much more sensibly than the
young'uns out there.
I like to delude myself that I'm in the same generation as you, so
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ritu
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:07 AM
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Subject: RE: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
Only if you share Bush's Manichean world-view. I don't. But we have
covered
On 11/25/06, jdiebremse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, for quite a lot of
us,
all the Iraqi deaths post 2003 are on the Coalition's head.
And that's because the policy of the rest of the world was to support
the reign of terror of Saddam Hussein ad infinitum
Very, very bad logic. Those
- Original Message -
From: jdiebremse [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
This is where language can be imprecise. Torture can mean a number
of
things, such as cutting off
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
It would, however, be
reasonable to argue that, while there is wanton murder by some
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Seeberger
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:54 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jdiebremse
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:57 AM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], pencimen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, if I
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Minette
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:00 PM
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Subject: RE: Someone Must Tell Them
I remember near term energy independence being a policy of Nixon and Ford
On 26/11/2006, at 2:56 AM, jdiebremse wrote:
I don't think that we're writing checks to the Saudi government, but I
do believe that we provide military assistance. This assistance
obviously goes back to the first Gulf War, and is related to the fact
that it is Saudi supplies of oil that are
On 26/11/2006, at 2:58 AM, jdiebremse wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When it becomes plain that the whole idea of terror is to scare
someone, then a look at our *rhetorical* reactions shows that we
are
not stiffening our spines and holding our jaws
On 26/11/2006, at 3:15 AM, jdiebremse wrote:
This is where language can be imprecise. Torture can mean a
number of
things, such as cutting off digits. We're not sanctioning
that.We
are sanctioning certain practices, which many reasonable people
consider
to be torture - but which
On 26/11/2006, at 3:19 AM, jdiebremse wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell charlie@ wrote:
And so there are some f*ckers out there who have been responsible
for
acts of terror causing the deaths of a few hundred
On 11/25/06, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, using this logic, because death from a bombing on an air craft
is a
statistically super-unlikely event, you would no doubt recommend
removing *all* metal detectors and screeenings from airports, because
the costs of these measures do
On 26/11/2006, at 10:31 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:
On 11/25/06, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, using this logic, because death from a bombing on an air craft
is a
statistically super-unlikely event, you would no doubt recommend
removing *all* metal detectors and screeenings from
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: Iraq Re: Someone Must Tell Them
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: Someone Must Tell Them
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan
JDG wrote:
I was about to write that this was yet another reason why the
US is becoming more and more inclined to not count so-called
world opinion
as being worth much more than a hill of beans
I know *just* what you mean. I mean, all you guys have done is pass the
Military
On 11/25/06, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which is what I said when I said An overall deterrent to people
(not just terrorists) bringing dangerous items on planes is a good
thing for everyone, and it gives the *impression* that we're totally
safe.
It's not going to stop the really
On 11/25/06, jdiebremse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was about to write that this was yet another reason why the US is
becoming more and more inclined to not count so-called world opinion
as being worth much more than a hill of beans
Yeah, this is a democracy, not the kind of country
On 26/11/2006, at 4:12 PM, Nick Arnett wrote:
'Twas my point.
Fair enough. :-)
Charlie
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http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
At 05:13 PM Saturday 11/25/2006, Charlie Bell wrote:
The security on planes is still a joke, really. Ceramic razors. Glass
bottles in the cabin. And you know that too. (Or maybe you don't.
Maybe you have no idea how easy it is to make weapons.)
A sharp 9H pencil, frex . . .
-- Ronn! :)
At 06:09 PM Saturday 11/25/2006, Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: Someone Must Tell Them
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL
On 26/11/2006, at 5:28 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
At 05:13 PM Saturday 11/25/2006, Charlie Bell wrote:
The security on planes is still a joke, really. Ceramic razors. Glass
bottles in the cabin. And you know that too. (Or maybe you don't.
Maybe you have no idea how easy it is to make
On 22/11/2006, at 3:18 PM, jdiebremse wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And so there are some f*ckers out there who have been responsible for
acts of terror causing the deaths of a few hundred people worldwide
on top of the WTC attacks.
I was going to
Charlie wrote:
And compared to just about any other cause of death
you can think of, terrorism is way way down the list.
This reminds me of an article I read this morning - international
travellers were polled and it turns out that most consider US to be the
'most unfriendly country',
Charlie Bell wrote:
On 22/11/2006, at 3:18 PM, jdiebremse wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And so there are some f*ckers out there who have been responsible for
acts of terror causing the deaths of a few hundred people worldwide
on top of the WTC
Charlie said:
Actually, I do. And compared to just about any other cause of death
you can think of, terrorism is way way down the list. Like I've
said, the response is disproportionate to the risk.
The number of people who died from terrorism in the US in 2001 was
about the same as the
JDG said:
This strikes me as classic generational arrogance - the old saw that
*our generation* dealt with threats much more sensibly than the
young'uns out there.
I like to delude myself that I'm in the same generation as you, so
it's not generational arrogance on my part. Since I became
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charlie Bell
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:58 AM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
But it isn't. The whole idea of terror is to get you to take away
your own
Dan said:
I really don't see this. For example, with AQ, the evidence is that
they see
the lifestyle of the West as decadent and evil, and the dominance
of the
West to be anathema to the proper order of things.
My take is that the radical fringe of Islam is a sort of cargo cult.
I think
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Baker
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:30 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
I appreciated your response, and will give it some consideration for a
longer
Rich wrote:
Quite how we can convince people in the regions where the failure
of the Islamic states is most total that the things they ought to
be emulating from the glorious past of Islamic are openness to
trade, toleration, meritocracy, egality, respect and encouragement
for science and
On 23/11/2006, at 9:29 AM, Richard Baker wrote:
Quite how we can convince people in the regions where the failure
of the Islamic states is most total that the things they ought to
be emulating from the glorious past of Islamic are openness to
trade, toleration, meritocracy, egality,
At 07:03 PM Tuesday 11/21/2006, Dan Minette wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Baker
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:13 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Someone Must Tell Them
It is rather strange to see
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], pencimen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1993 (Oct.): Killing of U.S. soldiers in Somalia. etc.
And how does that 13+ years of attacks compare to just the last month
in Iraq?
I dunno, how many Iraqis did the US kill last month? And how many
Iraqis did Iraqis kill?
JDG
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], pencimen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Whereas some of us see that as a subset of the threat posed by
militant Islamic extremists in general. And while AQ staged the
most successful attack on US soil in Sep 2001, the threat is
worldwide.
And still others of us see
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm all for bombing the crap out of bad guys and killers, and
showing
fools just exactly what they are.
It is kinda hard to do that when you cower in fear and/or harbor
illusions about what it is you fear.
But that is the
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
When it becomes plain that the whole idea of terror is to scare
someone, then a look at our *rhetorical* reactions shows that we are
not stiffening our spines and holding our jaws up sufficiently.
And what happens when the
At 09:58 PM Tuesday 11/21/2006, jdiebremse wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], pencimen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Whereas some of us see that as a subset of the threat posed by
militant Islamic extremists in general. And while AQ staged the
most successful attack on US soil in Sep 2001, the
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And why do reports about Iran's nuclear program [any of them, from
those
which claim disaster looms a few months ahead to those which claim
that
nuclear capability is nearly a decade away]cause such a lot of alarm?
Our intelligence said
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