Re: [Community-Discuss] How to mesure performance of afrinic board

[Badru Ntege]

+1

On 12/23/15, 10:46 AM, "Ali Hussein"  wrote:


Serge

There are tools available to do this from a single board member to the 
collective.  The important thing to note though is that the evaluation must 
come from an informed premise of what the goals were. 

Ali Hussein 
Tel: +254 713 601113

On Dec 22, 2015 8:32 PM, "serge ilunga"  wrote:
+1 Ali ,
Mission (Goal) and Values are the key drivers of any organization.
In the case of AfriNIC, the BOD is to put in place a strategic plan.
This responsability being shared by the whole board, what can be the metric to 
evaluate BOD members performance.
Even the metrics are set, how can we evaluate the performance of a single BOD 
member while their terms don't start at the same time?


Kind Regards.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Ali Hussein  wrote:
Hi All

I have just recently joined the list and have been following the discussions on 
the Afrinic Board with interest. Whilst I believe it's too early for me to 
provide an opinion I have one contribution to make.

Any Board has the fiduciary responsibility to drive the organization's goals as 
stipulated by its members /shareholders through its Memorandum and Articles 
which usually are broken down by period Strategic Plans. I believe Boards 
should ultimately be judged by whether an organisation is meeting/exceeding its 
mandate through the implementation of the above. 

Do we have in place such reviews? And how are they structured?  Are they public 
documents we can access? 

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no 
one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi

Sent from my iPad

On 22 Dec 2015, at 10:47 AM, Mark Elkins  wrote:

The Board was put there by AFRINIC Members in good standing.
Ergo, AFRINIC Members suck at choosing Board Members.

  

There is a reason why a Term only lasts three years... it allows the
Membership to correct their errors.

I personally think the Board does not suck and is actually pretty good.

On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 22:15 +, Keshwarsingh Nadan wrote:
the board sucks

From: Owen DeLong [o...@delong.com]
Sent: 22 December 2015 1:50
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] How to mesure performance of afrinic board

As a general rule, the only check and balance on a board is the voting members 
who can
choose to change out the board and the board itself who can (usually) remove a 
member
if it is necessary.

The method for measuring the effectiveness of the board is generally up to each 
voter
to determine for his/her self and I don’t see any reason this should be 
different for AfriNIC.

I think the members of AfriNIC are perfectly capable of electing the board and 
that
there is no reason we should dictate to them what criteria they should consider 
when
making their votes.

Owen

On Dec 20, 2015, at 05:14 , Chevalier du Borg  wrote:

i have been thinking about this for a while. there's a triangle of
check and balance that make this system work

- board check and balance ceo (and staff?)

who does check and balance on board? members only? or the community at large?
I also like to know, what are the thing used to measure whether a
board being effective? should we clarifie this mesures so that its
self-evidence to everyone when board is doing good job or not? should
we add that check and balance formally to responsabilite of governance
committee? i belief good performance and good governance go hand in
hand.

thoughts?


--
Borg le Chevalier
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015

[Badru Ntege]

Saul 

Your email does not deserve a detail response.  

You need to very slowly read all the emails
Take your time to understand what the discussion is 
And then respond.

Ps please take care not to hurt yourself as you read the emails.

Regards





On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Saul" <s...@enetworks.co.za> wrote:

>Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant berating,
>non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of the
>board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge of
>until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the last
>elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
>responsible for. 
>
>You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in this
>public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
>for fact to backup your allegations.
>
>You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
>company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
>leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
>about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was, we
>don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
>always been a sticky point recently... 
>
>maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
>we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
>correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
>in.
>
>I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
>list factual and constructive
>
>Saul
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com] 
>Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
>To: Randy Bush <ra...@psg.com>
>Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>;
>AfriNIC Discuss <members-disc...@afrinic.net>
>Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
>November 2015
>
>
>Hi Randy
>
>
>
>
>
>On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <ra...@psg.com> wrote:
>
>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to 
>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>>
>>never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>>
>>but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>
>Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
>the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
>transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
>information that you have access to.
>
>So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
>particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails try
>to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
>never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a record
>for consistency.
>
>> i am
>>always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
>
>Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
>the community and will try my best.
>
>>i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the 
>>roots of the problem.
>
>On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the lack
>of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery. (on
>this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
>the core.
>
>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee, 
>>etc.
>
>We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the current
>modus operandus. 
>
>>i am patient and i trust the current
>>executive.
>>
>>randy
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015

[Badru Ntege]

Owen

I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe to you 
I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.  Actually 
again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I think the one 
with Andrew was clear.  

What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what was 
not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does not mean I 
cannot dialogue with him.  

Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not understand 
why you then write on his behalf

Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest 
problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.

Baffled 


On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <o...@delong.com> wrote:


On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.nt...@nftconsult.com> wrote:

Andrew

Comments inline

On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances 
beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of 
AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that 
the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and 
this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I 
apologise for.

Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve Afrinic.  
We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if your primary 
assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving the workload do 
exist.  I’m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not have to elaborate.

Badru,

It’s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are clearly 
attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.

Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which 
temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has expressed 
this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in nature and I see 
no reason to believe otherwise. I’m quite certain that if Andrew faced any sort 
of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he would act accordingly 
without requiring any form of encouragement from you.



Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring 
that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair 
representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed 
than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has 
taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.

The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which 
referred to conflicting priorities.

No, it isn’t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the overall 
delay has been his inability to work on the matter.

This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well, 
including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members of 
the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the matter 
only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the Tunis meeting 
was early in June, that leaves several other months during which even he could 
have been doing significant work on this.

You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in 
particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and 
mathematics to your analysis of Andrew’s message.



Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out 
that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an 
SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days 
would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have 
misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that 
references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if 
you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act 
why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have 
been met.

My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the 
earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones paradigm.

Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you referenced 
a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given of Annual 
General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the bylaws that 
requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in the earlier 
email, please provide a corrected reference point in the bylaws. Otherwise, 
please accept that you were mistaken and let’s all move on from this point.

Owen


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [members-discuss] Matters Arising - Further clarification

[Badru Ntege]

Chair

Thanks for your input in the ongoing dialogue. Comments inline

> On 12 Jul 2016, at 10:26 pm, Sunday Folayan  wrote:
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> 
> Dear AFRINIC Members and Community,
> 
> I would like to offer some additional clarifications on issues being
> discussed.
> 
> 1. Strategic Document
> This is not a radical departure from past strategic plans, in outline.
> Indeed, this is an enhancement of the unpublished 2014-2018 plan. The
> management uses the strategic document to plan activities and to propose
> budgets for each year. It should be stated that micro management of the
> executives by the Board is not in the best interest of AFRINIC.

The community has shared some suggestions in making this process more 
productive and there is no intention of micromanagement.  

Please accept community feedback for what it is. We are suggesting that current 
good practice in setting strategic plans is to make sure that we have some 
measurable targets.   I'm sure some members have also commented on this just in 
case community feedback might not be carrying the relevant weight. 

We are only asking that you consider comments made. 



> 
> 2. Board-Community Relations
> The Board welcomes proposals and solutions on issues at all times. The
> board believes that all comments should be made in a manner that is
> respectful and gives recognition to the fact that there may be opposing
> views.  In particular, comments that imply wrongdoing but do not give
> details of the alleged infraction are not encouraged or welcomed.

There's a thin line between free speech and the opposite. Let's allow members 
and community to share views and we ask board and chair to express some 
humility to accept that just as members can be wrong at times board can also be 
wrong. 

We need to change the paradigm of "community in attack and board in defence."  
This can only happen if we respectfully listen to each other.  

As our chair we expect emails not to be written in defence mode if in doubt ask 
for clarity.  

> 
> 3. Fees.
> The recent change in the allocation fee charges was merely a
> clarification and it only affects members with new allocation requests;
> it has no effect on existing members who do not request additional
> number resources. As already indicated, the setting of fees is a Board
> responsibility.  Any member is welcome to comment on the fee structure
> or to make their own proposal at any time, and such comments or
> proposals will be duly considered at the time of the next fee review.

Noted 
> 
> 4. Membership of CoE
> The Bylaws section 16 gives the Board the power to consider former
> Chairpersons of AFRINIC for appointment to the Council of Elders. The
> Board has not formally discussed appointing the former Chairman in
> question to the CoE, but we will add a discussion of this issue to the
> agenda of the next Board meeting.
> 
Is this a reaction to recent threads.  

This used to be agenda item for the first meeting of new board.  It has taken a 
year to make it to the agenda, we understand board has been busy. 
 
Looking forward to the outcomes of your deliberations. 

Regards 







> Thanks and Regards…
> 
> Sunday Folayan
> Chair, AFRINIC Board
> 
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Council of Elders

[Badru Ntege]

Mr Elkins 

You would like to drag the community back that's your point. You know very well 
my position.   You can also choose to go personal. I'm way above that level of 
petty thinking. 
 
I'm curious that a particular grouping has taken it to themselves to justify 
and defend the actions of the board yet Chair sent the board position this 
morning. 

The events of tunis and Mauritius are very clear and as far as the Afrinic 
board goes to me represented the darkest hours in the history of the board. 

My resignation was due to the fact that the board choose to misrepresent the 
facts of the Mauritius meeting by eliminating large portions. 

 Because we get away with a lie does not make remove the fact that it is a lie. 

As mentioned earlier I have no problems standing alone as long as I beleive I'm 
right which is what I did.  Time tells allot. As it has proved with all the 
empty accusations on finance it will tell with the rest. 

My ethics have no price. 
 
I have no regrets for my actions 


> On 13 Jul 2016, at 7:55 pm, Mark Elkins  wrote:
> 
> Badru stopped being the Chair of AFRINIC at the last Mauritius meeting.
> 
> Badru left the Board over a year ago in Tunisia. He resigned after the
> Board had an impromptu meeting on stage during the meeting.
> I believe that one can guess he was asked to resign by the Board.
> 
> There were a number of ugly words exchanged at that meeting and if you
> were present at that meeting, I believe that you would have got the idea
> that there was bad blood between various parties.
> 
> I was on the Board at that time. Personally, I would not have agreed to
> having Badru in the honourably position of being a community elder (as
> such, CoE).
> 
> Any Board Member who steps down and who causes such disarray and
> hostility should expect to be kept at a distance. Please, I'm not trying
> to pick on Badru, but on the situation and actions at the time. It would
> not be rational to then honour such a past Chairperson with a seat on
> the CoE.
> 
>> On 13/07/2016 09:40, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jul 12, 2016, at 22:01 , Omo Oaiya >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12 July 2016 at 21:03, Mike Silber >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>Nishal +1
>>> 
>>>Maybe a hypothetical if I may: what if a former Chairperson were
>>>to pass, or to be unable or unwilling to serve on the CoE, or even
>>>if they were to be convicted of an offense after their term that
>>>would disqualify them as a director. 
>>> 
>>>I don't think the community would want an unable or unwilling CoE
>>>member, or a convict.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> No community would.  We want them because of their experience as
>>> former Chairs 
>>> I read the 'open to' in 16.1 as former chairs are willing to consider
>>> or be considered.  So some might decline or be denied
>>> 
>>> 
>>>So I cannot see how automatic appointment could be implied.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is what bothers me.  We don't yet have 6 past chairs and we are
>>> discriminating without reason on appointment to CoE? How does this
>>> improve trust?
>> 
>> Omo,
>> 
>> You are claiming facts not in evidence.
>> 
>> The board chair clearly stated that the matter has not yet been
>> considered by the board. This is not discrimination, it is a lack of
>> action in either direction, positive or negative. He further noted that
>> it will be on the agenda at the next board meeting.
>> 
>> Claiming discrimination when there clearly isn’t any such thing going on
>> is nonsensical.
>> 
>> Finally, appointment to the CoE is at the discretion of the board. They
>> are free to invite a past chair or not entirely at their discretion and
>> nothing requires them to explain their reasoning to the community. If
>> you don’t like their decision, vote for different board members next
>> time there is an election.
>> 
>> Personally, given the manner in which Badru stepped down from the
>> chairmanship and the subsequent incidents leading to his departure from
>> the board, I would say that the board has more than ample reason if they
>> choose not to invite him to join the CoE. However, I respect that this
>> is a decision entirely at their discretion and I will accept whatever
>> decision they make.
>> 
>> The purpose of the CoE is to advise the board. The board must be free to
>> choose who it does or does not want to receive advice from.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Resolution 201604.274 about Set-Up fees

[Badru Ntege]

 Owen

On 7/15/16, 6:47 AM, "Owen DeLong"  wrote:


I’m done adding noise to the list and feeding the trolls. I have tried my best 
to work for a peaceful resolution, but it seems clear to me now that you do not 
seek information, but rather seek to foment discontent and I have no desire to 
participate in that exercise.

If you mean the above it might be the most helpful act you have done for the 
community.  There are issues the community needs to resolve and this is best 
done by themselves.  With all due respect the community sees you as on outsider 
and as wrong as this might be in RIR eco system that’s just it.  (before anyone 
reads anything out of this statement it means from another RIR)

What might seem factual to you will be seem as a statement pursuing an agenda.  
Just like every time I post something it is seem as an attack on the 
establishment, your posts are also seen as a defense on the establishment.  I’m 
sure most of the time it's not your intent but perceptions and paradigms are 
hard to change at times.

Of recent I also think you crossed the line in some of your statements.  By 
that in our culture you are a guest and there’s a line that one has to be 
cautious not to cross as a guest.

You have been a long time friend of the community and I urge you continue the 
friendship when it comes to the technical value you bring. 

As tempting as it might be when you add your opinion to a topic under 
discussion it seems to spin out of control and I’m sure many silently agree 
with Marcus’s email.

To those who might be tempted to spin this email into anything else I ask you 
do not.  

We need to move forward and build our community.  We will never agree with 
everyone and that is why we seek consensus or go for the vote but we have no 
choice but to co-exist.

Regards 

Badru






Owen


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Thoughts and introspection

[Badru Ntege]

Members

Just for the record and in the spirit of moving forward as a community I have 
responded to Andrew off-list copying both chair and CEO.

I do believe some work needs to be done to bridge and seal the Trust cracks and 
fault lines we are witnessing.

We all have no option but to find a respectable way for all of us to contribute 
to the future of AfriNIC.

But you cannot sustainably do that without righting wrongs so I'm hoping we 
start from that point.

Regards


On 16 Jul 2016, at 1:50 am, Andrew Alston 
> wrote:

Hi All,

Let me start by saying, I send what follows wearing no hats, other than to say, 
I have thought long and hard about what follows, and I send it as myself,  and 
with only my own reflections guiding what I write below.

Over the last few days and months, I have thought deeply about what we have 
seen within AfriNIC over the last few years, and I have some observations I 
would like to share.

Firstly, we may not all like each other, we may never see eye to eye as a 
community, as members, or anything else.  But in the end, our like, or dislike 
of each other, is immaterial, as is even our respect for each other.  What we 
do have to respect , and attempt to strive for, is the best interests of 
AfriNIC as an organisation, as a community, and as a critical part of the 
Internet on both the African continent and within the global context.  We have 
to strive to apply our own individual minds to the problems faced, and the 
solutions required.  Then, as part of this community, we have to attempt to 
voice our thoughts and our opinions, and in some cases those thoughts and 
opinions will be accepted, in others they will be rejected.  I don’t believe 
any of us have a perfect track record of perfect proposals, because we are all 
human, and humans are prone to error.  The ideas and thoughts and views that 
are proposed then need to be weighed by the community, not based on position, 
not based on the age of the speaker, not based on the linguistic background of 
the speaker, not based on the geographic location of the speaker, but entirely 
based on the merits of the arguments put forward.  Sadly, this is not what I am 
seeing in the last few years, and let me state clearly, that I am as guilty of 
the issue I describe here as anyone else.  What I am seeing is a community that 
is no longer attacking the issues, but attacking either the person, or a subset 
of the community.  I see us divided along so many different lines, and sadly, 
those divides are not leading to the spirited debate that will end in 
solutions, instead they are slowly tearing us apart.  As I said, I am not 
placing blame on any person or collective here, I believe this is a far wider 
problem than that, and I also state again, I am as guilty as any other here.

We use procedures to divert from argument, we fight from a point of view of 
“I’m right, and you’re wrong, so everything else you say must automatically be 
wrong.”  We have gotten to the point where so often at meetings and on these 
lists, instead of listening to one another based on the merits of the ideas, 
views and suggestions put forward, we divert from the content of the proposals 
and ideas and views, and instead attack, for the sake of attacking a person, or 
a collective.  This makes no sense, it is deeply harmful to growth on the 
continent, and it is dangerous, because it creates a snowball effect that 
amplifiers and propagates.

Having worked in academic environments, one of the things that is valued in 
academia and in research, is open mindedness.  Academia welcomes debate, and it 
is through debate that we grow, mature and learn.  It is through spirited, and 
sometimes even heated exchanges, that our ideas grow and blossom.  That being 
said, there are many forms of debate.  If I examine the work by Don Lindsay, I 
can see many forms of debate that he describes as fallacious arguments creeping 
into the community exchanges across these lists.  If you read 
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html I am sure you will 
see some of the forms of argument listed there as echoes of what we have seen 
of late.

As I say, use of these forms is not unique to any person, and I to fall back to 
many of these types of arguments, but it is something we need to work 
repairing.  We need to work towards a point where our arguments, our thoughts, 
our ideas, our views are spoken to build rather than destroy.  Every time we 
resort to the behaviours described above, it simply amplifiers, propagates and 
spreads, and the damage it causes may one day reach a point where it creates 
terminal injury.

What I would like to ask of everyone one of us, is that we, myself included, 
started to look at each other’s thoughts and ideas based entirely on the merits 
of the arguments.  Let us follow academic principles and research the positions 
we are taking, carefully, 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Resolution 201604.274 about Set-Up fees

[Badru Ntege]

Owen

I think I understand your position, the call for calm on sensitive issues is 
out let's all try to uphold.

The clarification on your membership is noted. I have always seen you as a 
guest so thank you for that.

But I hope you read between the lines in my email.

There are issues that are unresolved and might never be unresolved so we have 
to move on. When we drag those issues back as a means to defend a position like 
your email and Marks email you stir up the responses we see. I too noticed that 
I went back to those issues I had vowed to close. Which was not right for me 
either.

So let's all find a neutral way to make out points.

Once again thanks for your candid response.

Regards.



On 16 Jul 2016, at 12:50 am, Owen DeLong 
<o...@delong.com<mailto:o...@delong.com>> wrote:


On Jul 14, 2016, at 23:36 , Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:

 Owen

On 7/15/16, 6:47 AM, "Owen DeLong" <o...@delong.com<mailto:o...@delong.com>> 
wrote:


I’m done adding noise to the list and feeding the trolls. I have tried my best 
to work for a peaceful resolution, but it seems clear to me now that you do not 
seek information, but rather seek to foment discontent and I have no desire to 
participate in that exercise.

If you mean the above it might be the most helpful act you have done for the 
community.  There are issues the community needs to resolve and this is best 
done by themselves.  With all due respect the community sees you as on outsider 
and as wrong as this might be in RIR eco system that’s just it.  (before anyone 
reads anything out of this statement it means from another RIR)

Then the community must adjust their perspective. I work for a company which 
has substantial operations in the AfriNIC service region. We care very deeply 
about what happens and whether you like it or not, as a result, I am, in fact, 
a member of the community and not an outsider at this point.

What might seem factual to you will be seem as a statement pursuing an agenda.  
Just like every time I post something it is seem as an attack on the 
establishment, your posts are also seen as a defense on the establishment.  I’m 
sure most of the time it's not your intent but perceptions and paradigms are 
hard to change at times.

People will, of course, have their perspectives and their agendas. My agenda 
here is plain and I have stated it. I want to see the best outcome for the 
region and for the internet in general.

Anyone who believes I have a different agenda or would defend the establishment 
if I felt that the establishment was wrong should review my track record for an 
education.

Of recent I also think you crossed the line in some of your statements.  By 
that in our culture you are a guest and there’s a line that one has to be 
cautious not to cross as a guest.

Again, your idea that I am a guest and not a member of the community may be the 
source of some of your other errors in dealing with me.

You have been a long time friend of the community and I urge you continue the 
friendship when it comes to the technical value you bring.

It is absolutely my intent to remain a friend of the community even as I am 
also a member of the community.

As tempting as it might be when you add your opinion to a topic under 
discussion it seems to spin out of control and I’m sure many silently agree 
with Marcus’s email.

Then let them speak up as I have and as Marcus has. Let us hear everyone’s 
opinions and let the best opinions triumph in the debate and the market place 
of ideas. Let us not, however, focus on criticizing or denigrating each other, 
but instead focus on an open sharing of ideas and the constructive discussion 
and evaluation of the merits and disadvantages of those ideas that we might 
reach the best conclusion for the community and the internet as a whole.

While I may not always live up to the ideal I have expressed above, it is 
always my intent and I try very hard to do so.

To those who might be tempted to spin this email into anything else I ask you 
do not.

We need to move forward and build our community.  We will never agree with 
everyone and that is why we seek consensus or go for the vote but we have no 
choice but to co-exist.

This is one place where I absolutely agree with you, Badru. I hope you will 
continue forward in this way.

Owen

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Annual Reports 2014 and 2015 Missing

[Badru Ntege]

 +1  

I hope there’s nothing in the mauritian companies act preventing this from  
happening.

  

On 6/27/16, 3:51 PM, "Mirriam Namwau"  wrote:


On 27 Jun 2016 13:50, "Alan Barrett"  wrote:
>
>
> > On 27 Jun 2016, at 13:40, Arnaud AMELINA  wrote:
>
> > Dear CEO,
> > 
> > Compared to all the above how can you explain the delay of the 2014 annual 
> > report.
>
> I will not attempt to explain the delay, except to say that I am still 
> learning the requirements, and we will try to do better in future.
>
Thank you for your frank response and the community hopes that the future will 
look different. Please note that this is a requirement for the board and "some" 
board members were there when 2013 report was presented and the organization 
must have memory. We as a community can't afford to remind those responsible 
for their duties especially when reports for 2014 and 2015 are not presented or 
available on line in year 2016.
 
Mirriam
LadiesInTech
South Sudan

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Accountability assessment

[Badru Ntege]

Thank you Noah

Speaking as a community and resource member. We need some of our elected 
members to be cautious on how they translate the role and responsibilities of 
the board.

The company belongs to the community at large under the custody of current 
members who then elect a board.   It should never be seen as a top down issue.

This is more reason for me to ask that we explore registering the organisation 
in a jurisdiction that will not work against the bottom up process or bring up 
room for governance confusion.  We should start dialogue with the current host 
to enable Afrinic get special dispensation in its registration.

Let's continue to explore additive options

Badru Ntege
CEO
NFT Consult Ltd
Www.Nftconsult.com<http://Www.Nftconsult.com>

“Vision without execution is hallucination.”
― Thomas A. Edison






On 6 Jul 2016, at 7:23 pm, Noah <n...@neo.co.tz<mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>> wrote:


On 30 Jun 2016 11:51, "Andrew Alston" 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
>
> See comments inline (once again, speaking here as a resource member)
>

Comments in line and speaking as a community member/netizen/internet end user,  
who cares for the organization vested with the mandate of managing the most 
critical number resources upon which the INTERNET as we know it depends on.

>
> I have a major problem with consultation outside of the member base and 
> including the wider community in what is a commercial discussion between the 
> company and the members.
>
>

All the current resource members were community members before and some have 
ceased from being resource members after closer of their business and may 
comeback for resources in the near future.

So this is not just for those once community who have  since signed the AFRINIC 
RSA and hence use resources but it's for all "netizens" who reside within the 
AFRINIC region including those who are soon to be "resource members".

>
>
>
>> I’m even very much on the fence about making the fees subject to a 
>> negotiation like this, because at the end of the day there is a fiduciary 
>> duty on the directors to ensure that the company is sustainable.  If the 
>> directors have to raise fees to do that, and the community disagrees with 
>> the fee increases, this creates a legally untenable situation.
>>
>>

This begs the question!

Who elects the directors, do they elect themselves?

Whose interests do they serve?

What where they before they became directors?

Are they now so special now all over sudden and cant consult the same community 
"resource members + non" who elected them? [1]

Noah

[1]The fiduciary duty on the directors to ensure that the company is 
sustainable can not be realised without consulting or involving stakeholders 
(community) especially in matters that involve fees/monies after its our 
collective responsibility to ensure AFRINIC is sustainable.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: AFRINIC - Matters Arising

[Badru Ntege]

Mike 

Thanks I appreciate your alternative views and I think we should openly discuss 
as more ideas come in for us to widely share so that we can come up with a 
shared final position.

I accept some of my views might be wild but my suggestion right now is lets put 
all options on the table and work to find the best outcome.

Your points bellow are noted and welcome.


On 7/11/16, 11:23 AM, "Mike Silber" <silber.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Badru

I agree with you that these issues should not be swept under the carpet, but I 
disagree on some of the alternatives you are suggesting.

More in-line below.

Regards

Mike

On 8 Jul 2016, at 16:21, Badru Ntege <badru.nt...@nftconsult.com> wrote:

..
What has seemed to bring this discussion up in my opinion is the use of 
Mauritian law in some instances in the past by individuals to either circumvent 
or challenge the bylaws.

Why is this necessary? Why do you persist with this sort of attach on 
“individuals”. It really does you and your position as a leader in the 
community no credit and comes across as petty.

There is a need to open dialogue on how the two are aligned to prevent us 
constantly coming to this issue.

You have the issue exactly right - ALIGNMENT, not replacement!

What we also need to separate that changing the jurisdiction if that ends up to 
be the only way should never be linked to moving the HQ.  I think and feel 
Mauritius has been a good home for AfriNIC and should continue to be the home.

What we need to then do is look at what would be the ideal registration process 
for a community “bottom up” entity, and then engage our hosts to see if they 
are ready to give us that legal dispensation.  

Respectfully - I think that is precisely the incorrect approach. From my 
detailed knowledge of two jurisdictions and a passing knowledge of several 
others, we will have similar (or different) issues in almost every jurisdiction.

We have AfriNIC the corporation and AfriNIC the community and the problem is 
the connection between the two - it is NOT the jurisdiction or the relevant 
company law. If we can get that interface correct - that should resolve most of 
the issues that have been identified.

Personally I think there are some good lessons on what can be done (as well as 
what should not be done) in the IANA transition process. Seun and Fiona (as the 
most active from this community AFAIK) may want to comment here as well - but 
there are ways to ensure that the corporation “belongs” to the community, while 
the staff can get on with running the corporation and the board can provide 
direction and oversight in accordance with their fiduciary obligations.

The budget is a perfect example: the staff prepare the budget and execute 
against the approved budget, the board approves the budget …. but where is the 
community. The community right now feels excluded. IMO the answer is not to 
hand the preparation or approval of the budget to the community! IMO the answer 
is to restructure the process to ensure the community is included in the 
preparation, the input of the community is sought before approval and the 
community is aware of performance against budget.

First - that requires multi-year budgets, otherwise that process is too 
cumbersome. Second - that process can be built on top of almost any company law 
or jurisdictional requirements. 

In essence it is running DUAL STACK governance! It requires a bit of creativity 
and some problem solving skills, but it is a lot more effective that the binary 
options you are suggesting.

Failing that we can then ask out of our 53 potential regional states which one 
is prepared to give us that dispensation so we can register in that state.

Most countries allow company registrations in their jurisdiction. I am not sure 
what dispensation you are suggesting? I hope you are not suggesting we try 
create our own form of corporation? That is so capable of capture and the time 
and effort involved in making it up would be immense. I don’t think a “make it 
up as we go along” approach or special dispensations subject to the whim of the 
leadership at the time is really what we are after.

  AfriNIC can then be registered in that country as a legal entity but still 
maintain its HQ in Mauritius.

That is likely to have significant tax consequences.


My suggestion as had been suggested a few years back a body of community 
members plus some board members be set up in an adhoc committee to explore this 
and make recommendations to the community at the next AGMM.  

I would propose that we rather use the (to be formed) governance committee to 
see how we can dual stack community governance and corporate governance.

Personally I am VERY frustrated that we have been talking about a governance 
committee since Djibouti and have seen some useful documents - but no action. 
This is precisely the point for which the committee was mooted by Fiona - so 
why not use it instead of creating 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Accountability assessment

[Badru Ntege]

+1. Thanks Alain 

Less we forget our history. 


> On 8 Jul 2016, at 12:28 am, ALAIN AINA <aal...@trstech.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello SM
> 
> I beg. Lets stop this discussion about to whom AFRINIC belong to, playing 
> with “members" and "non members", invoking RSA and AFRINIC Ltd, etc…. 
> We have come a long way to this community driven organisation which role is 
> to serve the AFRICAN Internet  community by distributing numbers ressources 
> and beyond.  Like other RIRs, the AfriNIC organisational structure has been 
> set to encourage a bottom-up self governance management model in which 
> community in general, members, the Board of Directors elected by these 
> members have a  role and a say.
> 
> I would invite all of us to read :
> 
> - The 1997  AFRINIC proposal
> https://www.isoc.org/inet97/ans97/afrinic.htm
> 
> - The IANA report on AFRNIC accreditation 
> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-08apr2005.html
> 
> - AFRINIC vision, mission, cores values and success factors 
> http://www.afrinic.net/en/about/origins
> 
> I  would also suggest that we plan a session on AFRINIC History during 
> AFRINC-25  like we had AF* history  at AIS2016
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> —Alain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2016, at 3:55 PM, sm+afri...@elandsys.com wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Noah, Badru,
>> At 09:22 06-07-2016, Noah wrote:
>>> Who elects the directors, do they elect themselves?
>> 
>> The directors of Afrinic Ltd are elected by the members of Afrinic Ltd.
>> 
>>> Whose interests do they serve?
>> 
>> One of the powers of the directors of the company is to "determine the 
>> guidelines for the allocation of address space to members in line with the 
>> member driven Policy Development Process".
>> 
>>> What where they before they became directors?
>> 
>> The directors were members of the company.
>> 
>>> Are they now so special now all over sudden and cant consult the same 
>>> community "resource members + non" who elected them? [1]
>> 
>> The "non" (in the above) does not elect the directors.  Section 6(d) of the 
>> RSA states that the members of Afrinic Ltd will follow the policies adopted 
>> by this group and follow global policies.  Membership fees, for example, are 
>> not set through policies which are adopted by this group.  Membership fees 
>> is usually a matter discussed between the members who pay those fees.  A 
>> member usually does not vote for a director if the member is dissatisfied 
>> with the decisions taken by the director.  That is the accountability angle.
>> 
>> At 00:07 07-07-2016, Badru Ntege wrote:
>>> The company belongs to the community at large under the custody of current 
>>> members who then elect a board.   It should never be seen as a top down 
>>> issue.
>> 
>> If the company belongs to this group there would be a document about that.  
>> The only "agreement" up to now is the one where the company agrees that its 
>> members will follow the policies adopted by this group.  There is a 
>> discussion about that in the mailing list archives.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> S. Moonesamy  
>> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC - Matters Arising

[Badru Ntege]

Alain

Thanks for this depth  +1

Chair lets openly consider these views and I would really hope that all board 
members can openly share their views on this thread so we arrive at a position 
that works for the betterment of AfriNIC.

Regards



On 7/11/16, 6:35 PM, "ALAIN AINA"  wrote:

Hello,

On Jul 8, 2016, at 4:10 PM, Sunday Folayan  wrote:

Dear Members and the Community at large,

Further to my email of 30th June 2016, I will like to share some thoughts:

Thanks for sharing these thoughts, comments inline...


There seem to be differing interpretations of the way AFRINIC is organised, the 
powers of the Board, the powers of the Members, the powers of the Community, 
the bottom-up philosophy, and other related matters.

Some definitions and clarifications are appropriate, to explain the Board’s 
understanding of the status quo.

It is necessary to distinguish between the AFRINIC community, AFRINIC 
membership, and AFRINIC Ltd as a company. The community includes all 
stakeholders and beneficiaries of AFRINIC’s efforts, including resources and 
other benefits. The membership is a subset of the community.  AFRINIC Ltd is a 
membership-driven organisation, with a company registration, bylaws, directors, 
and all the other things that companies have.

The phrase “Bottom-Up” refers to a philosophy and not a specific process.  The 
bottom-up philosophy is used in the processes that we use to develop policies, 
elect the Board, change the Bylaws, and also allows members or the community at 
large to make suggestions or participate in discussions on any relevant matter.

 AFRNIC is committed to the Bottom-up Self-gorvenance model as per ICP-2 and 
the IANA report on AFRINIC accreditation. So it is a  principle and well beyond 
philosophy. 

AFRINIC Ltd. is registered in Mauritius as a company limited by guarantee.  In 
terms of the Companies Act of Mauritius (Act no 15 of 2001), such a company may 
not have more than 25 (twenty-five) members. 

The correct phrasing in the company act  is "shall not have more than 25 
members"

How do you interpret this as we are in definition and clarification section ?

Why don’t we fill the members up to 25  to improve accountability  ?

 Because of this, the Bylaws state that only the nine Directors (the Board) are 
Registered Members in terms of the Companies Act.  

Which makes the Board of Directors  accountable to themselves according to the 
company act.  So question is : what is the contract between these 9 and the 
others ?

 This original arrangement comes with unwritten rules for the 9 to follow the 
community driven approach, bottom-up self-governance and consensus based 
decision making and act in the public trust. 

However, the Bylaws give the broader membership (specifically Resource Members) 
almost all of the rights shareholders would enjoy in a normal company.

Nope.  According to the company act, these members have no rights, except those 
granted to them by the 9.  This works only if the unwritten rules are followed.
This was the case until things changed recently  and Company act and AFRINIC 
Ltd is  put in front of other members and the community to justify BoD actions.

A simple  example is point 11 of the AFRINIC  accountability assessment  
document provided to community for  discussions on bylways changes:

It states

==
Modification to the Bylaws or Constitution: The Bylaws say how the AFRINIC 
Members may change the Bylaws, but the Companies Act say that the Registered 
Members can change it. Consider requiring that the Bylaws/Constitution may be 
changed only after a Special Resolution by all AFRINIC Members in terms of 
Bylaws 7.6(vi) , so that the Registered Members (the same nine people as the 
Directors) cannot act without broader approval
==

interpretation of “member”  gives right to the 9 to change the bylaws.  So 
option is to limit that power, but to which extent?

This justify the numerous proposals of amendment to the bylaws which have been 
submitted  and a good summary of them can be seen through the two links below:

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2016-June/000343.html
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2016-June/000350.html

Concerns are that some of the changes required to change the accountability  
model  of AFRINIC may not be applicable  in the current context of Private 
company limited by guarantee  in the Mauritius company act 2001.


AFRINIC Ltd. is run by an executive that reports to the Board, and the Board 
exercises their fiduciary responsibilities to guide the Company. These 
responsibilities include the areas of sustainability and operational efficiency 
which also includes the setting of fees. The powers utilised are granted by the 
bylaws and the companies act.

You mentioned company act here as well ?

The Board or the executive may ask for comments from the membership or from the 
community before making 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Accountability assessment

[Badru Ntege]

Andrew

I think what Alain is suggesting is we should be open to listen to other views 
and maybe someone might have a better idea than either of us have which might 
in a way influence our position.

Yes based on the current position you can either support a position or not. But 
by stating our position immediately we close our mince to another opinion and 
thus kill the concept of consensus.

I hope this clarifies.

Let's open the floor to as many views as possible our diversity is our 
strengths.

Regards

Badru Ntege
CEO
NFT Consult Ltd
Www.Nftconsult.com<http://Www.Nftconsult.com>

“Vision without execution is hallucination.”
― Thomas A. Edison






On 29 Jun 2016, at 3:49 pm, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Alain,

As much as we can have a community discussion about this, this is still a 
member vote issue.  I see no harm in members stating which way they stand in a 
clear and unequivocal manner.  Fact is, bylaw changes are NOT done by 
consensus, they are done by a super majority vote of the members.  If we wish 
to forge ahead with bylaw changes, and I personally think there are numerous 
changes which are welcome, it is good to know where we stand on the votes that 
will eventually decide if this passes or not.

Consensus states until all reasonable objections have been addressed, however, 
we can have all the consensus in the world on these issues but there are those 
who may still choose to reject the changes at the ballot box for reasons that 
are non-substantive and the changes will not occur.  Hence, where the votes sit 
on this issue is a valid question.

Andrew


From: ALAIN AINA <aal...@trstech.net<mailto:aal...@trstech.net>>
Reply-To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
<community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>
Date: Wednesday, 29 June 2016 at 3:11 PM
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
<community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Accountability assessment

Can we stay discussion and consensus oriented  here instead of  “…. I would 
vote against” ?


Thanks

—Alain


On Jun 28, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Comments below

Please note – I am posting here purely in my capacity as a resource member.

>>>1 ..  but there is a conflict between 7.2(i) and 13.7(i) on whether or 
>>>not Associate Members may vote in elections forDirectors. This conflict must 
>>>be resolved one way or another.
We need to decide whether or not Associate Members should vote, and modify the 
Bylaws to give effect to that decision

> Just a matter of ambiguity in the statement in 7.2(i) to straighten out. The 
> bylaws are consistent.  Registered and Resource members vote. Associate 
> members observe.

I tend to agree here and woud be in favour of an amendment to fix the ambiguity


>>>2.  Interchangeable use of the terms “Bylaw” or “Bylaws” and 
>>>“Constitution”:.. Suggest adding a clause 1.3 to clarify that this 
>>>document may be referred to by the term “Bylaws” or “Constitution”, and is 
>>>intended to serve the function of the Constitution in terms of the Companies 
>>>Act of Mauritius.

> Supported
Supported as well
>>4 - Term limits: Consider adding a term limit for elected Board members.
>> We need to decide whether or not to add a limit, and what the limit should 
>> be.

> Proposal :  One term and at least an election before another nomination
Agree with term limits – would not however support a single term – there has to 
be some continuity and it takes any director time to get up to speed with 
everything in the organization as well.  Two terms with a two term break seems 
far more reasonable to me, and I would support such

>>> 5- Independence of Directors: Consider adding a limit to the number of 
>>> Directors who may work for the same organisation.

>>> We need to decide whether or not to add a limit, and what the limit should 
>>> be.

> We need to keep refreshing the board with independence, expertise and skills 
> so a better managed succession process is a must.  I propose with the 
> exclusion of the CEO that we have

> -  Max 1 per org/company
> -  Max 1 per country
> - Max 2  per region

 > - Not more than one Director may have employment, consultancy or advisory 
 > relationships with the same Company or Organization and/or with one of its 
 > Related Companies or Organizations established or not in the > same country.

> - not more than one Director may be domiciled in the same country. Should a 
> candidate for a position on the Board of Directors have more than one 
> domicile, one of whic

[Community-Discuss] FW: [members-discuss] Accountability assessment

[Badru Ntege]

Posting in my capacity as a community member 

Comments bellow

On 6/28/16, 10:56 PM, "Andrew Alston"  wrote:

Comments below 

 

Please note – I am posting here purely in my capacity as a resource member.

 

>>>1 ..  but there is a conflict between 7.2(i) and 13.7(i) on whether or 
>>>not Associate Members may vote in elections forDirectors. This conflict must 
>>>be resolved one way or another.
We need to decide whether or not Associate Members should vote, and modify the 
Bylaws to give effect to that decision

Following discussion in a separate thread if resource member includes legacy 
holders I think they should not vote.  They are either fully in or out.  They 
hold on to resources out of Afrinic and do not want to share or return and yet 
they want to take part in the governance by paying a measly fee.  

> Just a matter of ambiguity in the statement in 7.2(i) to straighten out. The 
> bylaws are consistent.  Registered and Resource members vote. Associate 
> members observe.  

 

I tend to agree here and woud be in favour of an amendment to fix the ambiguity

 

 

>>>2.  Interchangeable use of the terms “Bylaw” or “Bylaws” and 
>>>“Constitution”:.. Suggest adding a clause 1.3 to clarify that this 
>>>document may be referred to by the term “Bylaws” or “Constitution”, and is 
>>>intended to serve the function of the Constitution in terms of the Companies 
>>>Act of Mauritius.


> Supported

Supported as well

>>4 - Term limits: Consider adding a term limit for elected Board members.
>> We need to decide whether or not to add a limit, and what the limit should 
>> be.


> Proposal :  One term and at least an election before another nomination

Agree with term limits – would not however support a single term – there has to 
be some continuity and it takes any director time to get up to speed with 
everything in the organization as well.  Two terms with a two term break seems 
far more reasonable to me, and I would support such

Fully diasgree  if it takes time I think NOMCOM then needs to be more thorough 
in the selection process.  The region has a wealth of highly intelligent people 
capable of grasping the board expectations in a very short time.   The above 
suggests we are presented with incapable candidates to choose from which I 
fully disagree with. 

The proposal of One term and at least an election before another nomination is 
perfect.

>>> 5- Independence of Directors: Consider adding a limit to the number of 
>>> Directors who may work for the same organisation.
 
>>> We need to decide whether or not to add a limit, and what the limit should 
>>> be.


> We need to keep refreshing the board with independence, expertise and skills 
> so a better managed succession process is a must.  I propose with the 
> exclusion of the CEO that we have

> -  Max 1 per org/company
> -  Max 1 per country
> - Max 2  per region

 > - Not more than one Director may have employment, consultancy or advisory 
 > relationships with the same Company or Organization and/or with one of its 
 > Related Companies or Organizations established or not in the > same country.

> - not more than one Director may be domiciled in the same country. Should a 
> candidate for a position on the Board of Directors have more than one 
> domicile, one of which involves a presumed incompatibility, in order > to 
> analyze his/her case for usual country of residence, the country where the 
> company or organization he/she is a part of or works for is established, 
> and/or any other relevant data shall be considered;

> - not more than two Directors may be domiciled in the same region. 

I do not support this at all and would vote against any such change.  I believe 
that the members are free to nominate who they want, and the vote at the ballot 
box should be the deciding factor.  If the community wishes to elect a number 
of people from the same  that is the communities choice, and I 
don’t think we should be attempting to code in limitations to this.  There is 
however one except, I would support an amendment that says no more than two 
directors from the same organization (on a 9 man board, I don’t believe this is 
a number high enough that 2 people could have any meaningful sway).  With 
regards to the regional and who is domiciled where, I strongly oppose.  I point 
out at under the current bylaws a director may be domiciled in a particular 
place when he stands and may relocate during his term (including off the 
continent) – under this proposal a director who moved to a country where 
another director was domiciled during his term would have to forfeit his duly 
elected seat.  Sorry, can’t support that.

In a region of over 1 billion people and 53 countries the above submission 
would seem very weak.  Lets invest in finding those people.  

To put this in context we are looking for  0.9 %  from a population 
point of view and 17% from a countries point of view.  Surely 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Accountability assessment

[Badru Ntege]

Omo 

Thank you for this I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel.  

Looking forward to wider discussion on this proposal.

+1 +1 +1  

Regards





On 6/28/16, 4:20 PM, "Omo Oaiya"  wrote:



On 10 June 2016 at 11:18, Alan Barrett  wrote:
Arising from a review of AFRINIC’s Bylaws and other documents, several 
potential areas for improvement were identified.

The attached document was presented to the AFRINIC Membership and the community 
during the AGMM in Gaborone, Botswana, on 9 June 2016.

I invite the community and the membership to comment on these suggestions, or 
any other areas where the Bylaws could be improved.  Comments should be sent to 
the community-discuss@afrinic.net mailing list.  In due course, Bylaws changes 
will be drafted to implement the suggestions (and additional points that might 
be identified).

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC



Thanks Alan.  Comments below


>>>1 ..  but there is a conflict between 7.2(i) and 13.7(i) on whether or 
>>>not Associate Members may vote in elections forDirectors. This conflict must 
>>>be resolved one way or another.
We need to decide whether or not Associate Members should vote, and modify the 
Bylaws to give effect to that decision

Just a matter of ambiguity in the statement in 7.2(i) to straighten out. The 
bylaws are consistent.  Registered and Resource members vote. Associate members 
observe.  


>>>2.  Interchangeable use of the terms “Bylaw” or “Bylaws” and 
>>>“Constitution”:.. Suggest adding a clause 1.3 to clarify that this 
>>>document may be referred to by the term “Bylaws” or “Constitution”, and is 
>>>intended to serve the function of the Constitution in terms of the Companies 
>>>Act of Mauritius.

Supported


>>3- Clarification that all Registered Members in terms of Bylaws 6.3, and only 
>>such Registered Members, must be registered in terms of the Companies Act as 
>>members of the company.

Supported but we shall seriously consider moving from this Private company 
model to a more community oriented model, where all members are considered. 


>>4 - Term limits: Consider adding a term limit for elected Board members.
>> We need to decide whether or not to add a limit, and what the limit should 
>> be.

Proposal :  One term and at least an election before another nomination


>>> 5- Independence of Directors: Consider adding a limit to the number of 
>>> Directors who may work for the same organisation.
 
>>> We need to decide whether or not to add a limit, and what the limit should 
>>> be.

We need to keep refreshing the board with independence, expertise and skills so 
a better managed succession process is a must.  I propose with the exclusion of 
the CEO that we have

-  Max 1 per org/company
-  Max 1 per country
 - Max 2  per region

 - Not more than one Director may have employment, consultancy or advisory 
relationships with the same Company or Organization and/or with one of its 
Related Companies or Organizations established or not in the same country.

- not more than one Director may be domiciled in the same country. Should a 
candidate for a position on the Board of Directors have more than one domicile, 
one of which involves a presumed incompatibility, in order to analyze his/her 
case for usual country of residence, the country where the company or 
organization he/she is a part of or works for is established, and/or any other 
relevant data shall be considered;

 - not more than two Directors may be domiciled in the same region. 


>>>6- Regional representation: Consider modifying 13.5 to state that Directors 
>>>must act in the interests of AFRINIC as a whole,regardless of their regional 
>>>affiliation.

Supported

>>>7.  Conflict of interest: Consider adding a requirement for Directors to 
>>>disclose any conflict of interest, and to recuse themselves from voting on 
>>>any matter where they have a conflict of interest.

Supported.  In addition, the Board must have a Conflict of Interest Policy and 
enforce it. 

>>> 8- Separation of powers: Consider adding a requirement that no more than 
>>> one key position (Board Chair, Vice Chair, Chief Executive Officer, Chief 
>>> Financial Officer) may be occupied by the same person.

Supported


>>> 9- Replacement of Directors: The bylaws sections 13.1, 13.8, 13.10, and 
>>> 13.14 give  different methods of replacing Directors for  different 
>>> reasons. Consider  harmonising this.

Harmonisation supported but the preferred option should be replacement through 
election at the next AGMM. 


>>> 10- Board approval of nominations: The Board can approve or disapprove  
>>> nominations for Board elections in terms of the Bylaws section 12.14(i). 
>>> Consider requiring a supermajority of two thirds of the Board to disapprove 
>>> any nomination

We should remove this approval and strengthen NOMCOM.  NOMCOM composition and 
operation should be reviewed and improved.   We can have the legal advisor and 
past 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment

[Badru Ntege]

Members 

We need to put certain things in perspective 

As members we share views openly and are free to comment or not to comment. 

Even free speech has its guidelines thus the code of conduct. 

The origins of my comment which seems to have sparked defensive comments from 
third parties was based on past experience where official commitments have been 
made and not met. 

Please remember CEO is not like any member on this list. The community or some 
might say members through the board have entrusted the stewardship of our 
organisation to him by contract.  Thus certain expectations.  Making and 
keeping commitments to me are the simplest. 

And my comment once again was based on past experience not future.

I read some frustrations from members about meeting behavior which is guided 
under the code of conduct and usually session chairs. I fail to see the 
connection. 

Let's focus on timely deliverables 

Regards. 

 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Sep 2016, at 12:21 PM, Jackson Muthili  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Andrew Alston
>  wrote:
>> It also worries me that people seem to restrict what OTHERS say.
>> 
>> If Owen feels like he wishes to comment on something – he is as free to do
>> so as anyone here is free to say anything.
> 
> Has anyone restricted or stopped another from expressing themselves?
> 
>> Why do you wish to censor some members of the community?  If you don’t like
>> what they say – feel free to ignore it.
> 
> I agree. Just as Alan has chosen to ignore Badrus emails.
> 
>> It’s the same way it annoys me when people come to the floor in a PDP
>> meeting and go “I THINK THIS DISCUSSION SHOULD END AND THIS POLICY SHOULD BE
>> SCRAPPED RIGHT NOW”
>> 
>> And “WHY ARE WE ENTERTAINING THIS POLICY IT HAS HAD NO COMMENTS SO ITS NOT
>> SUPPORTED”
> 
> There you go. It annoys you. And that's why others have always let you
> stand in the meeting and belittle and disparage others you dont like
> or agree with. its a free world after all.
> 
>> Ignoring the process that specifically lays out a way things are supposed to
>> go.
>> 
>> Here is a big hint – don’t like something, you’re free to ignore it, or, in
>> this case, free to bitch and whine about it – but honestly, whining about
>> things because you don’t like what someone says without adding anything
>> constructive to the debate just indicates a level of insecurity and is
>> pretty boring.
>> 
>> And well – that’s me exercising my freedom of speech and if you don’t what
>> I’ve said here, you’re free to ignore it, or whine some more, not like it
>> makes a difference to me.
> 
> Exactly my point. Speak up freely. You are even free to abuse the
> docility of a community and belittle them as you wish. After all, you
> are exercising your freedom of speech.
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Badru Ntege]

We had a similar discussion on another list somewhere and someone  related the 
mass proxie thing to ballot stuffing which we commonly see in our elections in 
the region

Even trust has guidelines

@ mark thanks for alluding to the elephant in the room.

If we want an outcome that inspires trust which does not exist right now let's 
consider limitations on proxies.

Sent from my iPhone

On 29 Sep 2016, at 3:52 PM, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Because proxies are enshrined in the companies act for one thing.

Secondly, what is your definition of abuse? Someone was trusted by a lot of 
people and used them to vote a way that you didn't like? That's not abuse - 
that's members who had faith in someone and decided to vote in a particular way.

Calling that abuse is laughable in the extreme - and it shows lack of 
willingness to accept the will of the majority vote.

Attempting to limit and change the rules to ensure that things go a particular 
way is no better than incumbent politicians attempting to change constitutions 
to hold onto power, or pushing for voting reforms to disenfranchise a 
particular group of people because you don't like the way they may vote.

Let's respect the democratic process here

Andrew

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>


From: Omo Oaiya <omo.oa...@wacren.net<mailto:omo.oa...@wacren.net>>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 5:31:53 PM
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

-1

There is history of abuse of proxies in AFRINIC so it is not simply the 
principle in question.   These votes are meant to be a representation of public 
interest not shareholder or group interest so we should care more about ethics 
and the moral responsibility of having involved voters.

As we are starting to record more online votes than onsite, I don't see why we 
can't consider limiting to online voting if not physically present.  We can use 
opportunity to improve on member engagement.

We may need to improve integrity and ease of use of the voting system in the 
process but small price to pay for a more representative and involved community.

-Omo

On 28 September 2016 at 20:16, Jackson Muthili 
<jacksonmu...@gmail.com<mailto:jacksonmu...@gmail.com>> wrote:
+1

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Andrew Alston
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
> +1 Mark,
>
> I would have thought this was pretty plain – it’s a global practice in 
> business and I’d be surprised if people who have stood on boards and other 
> such things hadn’t seen this fairly often, its enshrined in every company act 
> I’ve ever read.
>
> It’s the same way with shareholder meetings – a shareholder may give a proxy 
> to someone.
>
> A member may issue a proxy and that person then 100% represents the person 
> who gave it to them.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On 28/09/2016, 20:08, "Mark Elkins" 
> <m...@posix.co.za<mailto:m...@posix.co.za>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 28/09/2016 15:20, Badru Ntege wrote:
> > Ultimately percentage of members is the logical and sustainble way to
> > achieve a representative outcome.  However this opens another
> > question when it comes to “representative” and actual votes.
> >
> > We need to explore a way that also addresses actively engaged member
> > views.  The current system is open to some kind of abuse where
> > through the use of proxies,  votes are cast on behalf of members who
> > might not even have a clue about what the vote is all about.
>
> If I give my Proxy to someone - then I am implicitly trusting that
> person - including their judgement/discretion on things I might not be
> 100% sure about. If I give them instructions and they fail to follow
> them, my issue is with them, no one else.
>
> Often, proxies will actually state how the "owner" wishes to vote on
> certain (pre-defined) topics - i.e. - accept the current auditors for
> another year.
>
> If you don't trust a person to use your proxy wisely - don't give it to
> them. I really don't see the problem.
>
> > We have all noticed this in previous elections so I think we need to
> > start putting our minds round how to find a solution.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/28/16, 8:55 AM, "Dewole Ajao" 
> <dew...@tinitop.com<mailto:dew...@tinitop.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> Is hard-wiring the numbers really a good idea as opp

Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Sep 2016, at 5:30 PM, Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Correct – I think what Alan meant here (and he can correct me if I am wrong) 
> is that the limitation does not apply to special resolution voting for 
> example.
> 

If we thought it important enough to enshrine in the bye laws we should extend 
it to all voting processes. 



> It is specifically limited to ELECTION voting – any election.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> On 29/09/2016, 19:03, "ALAIN AINA" <aal...@trstech.net> wrote:
> 
>Hello,
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 5:16 PM, Alan Barrett <alan.barr...@afrinic.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 11:20, Badru Ntege <badru.nt...@nftconsult.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe over the years we have modified how proxies are used. I.e numbers 
>>> of proxies one can use.  The suggestion was not to eliminate. 
>>> 
>>> Even laws that have worked over centuries are modified. 
>>> 
>>> That's why I cannot come with 100 proxies to an election.  
>>> 
>>> We need to get clarity on how proxies impact quorum too. 
>>> 
>>> The issue needs to be discussed well to create full clarity.
>> 
>> For Board elections, the election guidelines specify a maximum number of 
>> proxies per person.  I don’t think that limit applies to anything else.
> 
> 
>Bylaws is very clear on this. The limit of 5 proxies per person applies to 
> all elections.
> 
>===
>12.12 Proxies
> 
>(viii) No member entitled to vote during an election held by the
>Company shall carry more than five (5) proxies during the said election
>
> 
> 
>Hope this helps
> 
>—Alain
> 
>> 
>> I agree that we should discuss it.  Let’s hear whether people think there 
>> should be limits, and if so, what the limits should be.
>> 
>> Alan Barrett
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Badru Ntege]

I believe over the years we have modified how proxies are used. I.e numbers of 
proxies one can use.  The suggestion was not to eliminate. 

Even laws that have worked over centuries are modified. 

That's why I cannot come with 100 proxies to an election.  

We need to get clarity on how proxies impact quorum too. 

The issue needs to be discussed well to create full clarity. 

Regards 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 28 Sep 2016, at 6:40 PM, Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> +1 Mark,
> 
> I would have thought this was pretty plain – it’s a global practice in 
> business and I’d be surprised if people who have stood on boards and other 
> such things hadn’t seen this fairly often, its enshrined in every company act 
> I’ve ever read.
> 
> It’s the same way with shareholder meetings – a shareholder may give a proxy 
> to someone.
> 
> A member may issue a proxy and that person then 100% represents the person 
> who gave it to them. 
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> On 28/09/2016, 20:08, "Mark Elkins" <m...@posix.co.za> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>On 28/09/2016 15:20, Badru Ntege wrote:
>> Ultimately percentage of members is the logical and sustainble way to
>> achieve a representative outcome.  However this opens another
>> question when it comes to “representative” and actual votes.
>> 
>> We need to explore a way that also addresses actively engaged member
>> views.  The current system is open to some kind of abuse where
>> through the use of proxies,  votes are cast on behalf of members who
>> might not even have a clue about what the vote is all about.
> 
>If I give my Proxy to someone - then I am implicitly trusting that
>person - including their judgement/discretion on things I might not be
>100% sure about. If I give them instructions and they fail to follow
>them, my issue is with them, no one else.
> 
>Often, proxies will actually state how the "owner" wishes to vote on
>certain (pre-defined) topics - i.e. - accept the current auditors for
>another year.
> 
>If you don't trust a person to use your proxy wisely - don't give it to
>them. I really don't see the problem.
> 
>> We have all noticed this in previous elections so I think we need to
>> start putting our minds round how to find a solution.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/28/16, 8:55 AM, "Dewole Ajao" <dew...@tinitop.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is hard-wiring the numbers really a good idea as opposed to a
>>> percentage (of something or the other)?
>>> 
>>> Just thinking of a way to fix the quorum even if active membership
>>> were to double in a year or two.
>>> 
>>> Dewole.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 28/09/2016 07:58, Alan Barrett wrote:
>>>>> On 26 Sep 2016, at 22:00, Alan Barrett
>>>>> <alan.barr...@afrinic.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 26 Sep 2016, at 18:22, Douglas Onyango
>>>>>> <ondoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Alan,
>>>>>>> The current quorum requirement is 10 members, which is too
>>>>>>> small, but I think 10% is too large.
>>>>>> Perhaps AFRINIC can share with us statistics on member
>>>>>> attendance in the past 5 years. We can normalize this data
>>>>>> and can use something like the lowest or average number of
>>>>>> members present to prescribe a pragmatic number for our
>>>>>> quorum requirement.
>>>>> Sure, I can get those numbers.
>>>> Here are the number of votes cast during recent Board elections.
>>>> The number of on-site votes gives a good idea of the number of
>>>> members who attended the meetings.
>>>> 
>>>> 2013201420152016 E-Votes585949183 
>>>> On-Site Votes45
>>>> 667762 TOTAL  103125126245
>>>> 
>>>> Given these attendance figures, I suggest a quorum requirement of
>>>> 30 resource members in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan ___ 
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss@afrinic.net 
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___ Community-Discuss
>>> mailing list Community-Discuss@afrinic.net 
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> ___ Community-Discuss
>> mailing list Community-Discuss@afrinic.net 
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 
>-- 
>Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>m...@posix.co.za   Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
>For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Badru Ntege]

+1


Badru Ntege
CEO
NFT Consult Ltd
Www.Nftconsult.com<http://Www.Nftconsult.com>

“Vision without execution is hallucination.”
�D Thomas A. Edison






On 30 Sep 2016, at 5:10 pm, Arnaud AMELINA 
<ameln...@gmail.com<mailto:ameln...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Dear CEO, we appreciate  your contributions and clarification. However we would 
like to remind you that your position does not allow you to make decisions 
unilaterally, or to intervene in favor of options or proposals. Good governance 
require you to remain neutral as you are the one in charge of building 
consensus.

Regards

Arnaud

Le 30 sept. 2016 12:25, "Alan Barrett" 
<alan.barr...@afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net>> a écrit :
Hi Ashok,

> On 30 Sep 2016, at 15:27, Ashok Radhakissoon 
> <as...@afrinic.net<mailto:as...@afrinic.net>> wrote:
>
> Dear Alan,
> I am only replying to you on this as I advise the Board only.It is only 
> during an AGMM, when called upon, that i intervene.

Actually, you replied to the mailing list, but no harm done.  I am also 
replying to the mailing list, and I have asked for the mailing list 
configuration to be changed so that it does not automatically add a “Reply-To” 
header in future.

> You are right in stating that the Company's Act takes precedence over the 
> bylaws.
> I recall that after the Cairo election, the Community felt that bringing a 
> substantial number of proxies especially from a particular region where 
> AFRINIC membership was dense could not from a "community " perspective give 
> the best representation for the Africa regions.This is why the limitation of 
> the number of proxies was introduced and voted by the community.
> This provision of the bylaws would in no way withstand legal challenge as 
> suggested by
> Andrew.

Thank you for the advice.  I suggest that the limit on pnumber of proxies 
should be removed.

Alan Barrett


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Badru Ntege]

> On 30 Sep 2016, at 7:42 pm, Frank Habicht  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 9/30/2016 5:42 PM, Jean-Robert Hountomey wrote:
>>> +1 NO new restrictions on proxies and removing any restriction that
>>> currently do exist
>> 
>> Which will take us backward, open the door for further disagreements,
>> add additional burden on the election committee and require
>> additional controls.
> 
> And will make AfriNIC procedures legal under Mauritius law.

As i have mentioned we passionately fought against government interference in 
the Internet and we are now ok with it. 

Supposing the Mauritian government imposes a legal tax tomorrow on all Afrinic 
resource holders /members regardless of where the resources are used since they 
are allocated from Mauritius. 

Would we still be ok with Mauritian Law ?? 

Let's be consistent if we choose to remove the proxies lets not use Mauritian 
law as the excuse. 

Let's find plausible consensus among members 

Regards 




> 
> Frank
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Badru Ntege]

As usual we miss the point

I think historical reference was mentioned by others and not me.

I asked for an open discussion which has happened by other members.

My objection is to use legal constraints which goes to limiting options.

We are a community of many who are by far wiser than the few of us who are 
vocal on the list and if we start setting boundaries through legal constraints 
in my view its against the principles that the Internet echo system.

Can I also suggest we remain on topic and avoid the temptation to personalise 
our arguments.

It's all about Afrinic and not us

Regards

Badru Ntege
CEO
NFT Consult Ltd
Www.Nftconsult.com<http://Www.Nftconsult.com>

“Vision without execution is hallucination.”
― Thomas A. Edison






On 30 Sep 2016, at 8:37 pm, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Badru –

I am very aware there are many jurisdictions and I’ve heard this argument from 
you so many times.

You’re welcome to try and get consensus to move AfriNIC to another 
juristriction and under the bylaws you could probably even pass a special 
resolution to do it if you could get those kinda numbers – but I know how I 
would be voting in this regard – but of course if you get a 75% majority for it 
– great.

What amuses me however is the view that people want to restrict what members 
can and can’t do because they didn’t like the outcome of a particular scenario 
– I have yet to see a single shred of conclusive evidence of proxies being used 
in any way that is outside of the rules – I have seen plenty of whining that 
its impacted things in ways that certain people didn’t like – but they are very 
different things.

I associate this type of changing of the rules and adding restrictions in my 
mind with what we have seen in so many parts of the world when an incumbent or 
someone doesn’t want to accept the will of a clear majority vote – change the 
rules…

It’s all the same thing in my eyes – pure and unadulterated hegemony – and I’m 
sick of it.

If a member wishes to give his proxy to someone – anyone – he has a right to do 
so.
If that person uses that proxy in a way the member never intended – the member 
can take that up with the person holding the proxy – it is the members 
responsibility.
If 90% of the members choose to trust one individual carry their votes – 
because that is where their faith lies – that is their choice – their right – 
and their responsibility to deal with the outcomes.

That is democracy – this blatant and transparent attempt to restrict a member’s 
rights in the name of “stopping abuse” – when there is no concrete evidence is 
a joke.  It is undemocratic, it is an insult to the intelligence of the members 
who sign those proxies, it is transparent manipulation of the system to attempt 
to achieve a result through the influencing of who can do what – and it is a 
joke.

This is how I see it – others my disagree – but these are the views that I 
stand by

Andrew

From: Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>>
Date: Friday, 30 September 2016 at 20:13
To: Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>>
Cc: Omo Oaiya <omo.oa...@wacren.net<mailto:omo.oa...@wacren.net>>, 
"community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>" 
<community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

Andrew

On 30 Sep 2016, at 5:30 pm, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
No Omo,

Please read what Ashok said – the limitation *WILL NOT SURVIVE LEGAL CHALLENGE*

Afrinic is a regional organisation if we are being shackled by jurisdiction of 
registration we have 52 other jurisdictions.

We have options. Let's remain very open and objective to what is best for 
members.

Consensus not legal shackles is what the Internet is built on.





The companies act does not ALLOW the limitation.

Andrew


From: Omo Oaiya <omo.oa...@wacren.net<mailto:omo.oa...@wacren.net>>
Date: Friday, 30 September 2016 at 17:29
To: Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>>
Cc: Jean-Robert Hountomey 
<jrhounto...@gmail.com<mailto:jrhounto...@gmail.com>>, 
"community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>" 
<community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

As you have repeated but that is by the way.  What is clear is that electronic 
voting has solved the issue with proxies so we don’t need them. If the 
companies act is restrictive and does not support better accountability, 
proxies can be limited to one per member 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Successful IANA transition

[Badru Ntege]

+1

It's a great day for the Internet.

Badru Ntege
CEO
NFT Consult Ltd
Www.Nftconsult.com<http://Www.Nftconsult.com>

“Vision without execution is hallucination.”
― Thomas A. Edison






On 1 Oct 2016, at 11:43 am, Evelyn Namara 
<evelyng...@gmail.com<mailto:evelyng...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I would like to add my voice and congratulate the entire Internet community for 
this spectacular achievement!

#YestoIANA

On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Seun Ojedeji 
<seun.ojed...@gmail.com<mailto:seun.ojed...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Great news to hear on a day like this! Congratulation to everyone that 
contributed towards making this a reality, congratulations to the entire 
Internet community.

Happy new month, happy independence to ICANN and to all Nigerians here ;-)

Regards

Sent from my LG G4
Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On 1 Oct 2016 5:09 a.m., "Alan Barrett" 
<alan.barr...@afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net>> wrote:
Dear AFRINIC community,

It’s now a few minutes after midnight in Washington, DC.  The IANA contract 
between NTIA and ICANN has expired.

ICANN is now performing the IANA Numbering Services (assigning IP addresses and 
ASNs to RIRs, and some related tasks) in terms of a contract between the RIRs 
and ICANN, instead of in terms of a contract between the NTIA and ICANN.  ICANN 
asked for permission to sub-contract the IANA Numbering Services to PTI, and 
the RIRs consented, so the IANA functions will actually be performed by PTI, 
although ICANN remains responsible.

Apart from announcements and press releases, you will probably not notice much 
difference.

Alan Barrett


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--


Evelyn Namara | T: +256 754 440893 | E: 
enam...@riseup.net<mailto:enam...@riseup.net> | Twitter: 
@enamara<http://www.twitter.com/enamara> | Skype: enamara

PGP: B94D 3950 38D6 914A E054 D6C5 E82E 0F66 DC01 E30D





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Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Badru Ntege]

+1.

 We need to find an outcome that works for the entire community.


On 1 Oct 2016, at 10:57 pm, Boubakar Barry 
> wrote:

This whole discussion looks like confronting the company act AfriNIC has to 
comply with as an organisation registered in Mauritius with the bylaws that the 
community wishes AfriNIC to have as governance guideline.

Reading some of the contributions, I have the impression that AfriNIC has been 
operating illegally all that time in Mauritius.

Everyone knows what guided us to chose Mauritius as admin/legal host for 
AfriNIC. We wanted to be pragmatic and move forward as quickly as possible, and 
Mauritius offered good conditions. Things have evolved, but we should not erect 
barriers against ourselves where there are none.

Personally, I do think that if there are major contradictions between the MU 
company act and the AfriNIC bylaws, the latter putting  community concerns and 
consensus in the center, then we have to look for other alternatives.

What happened today in the Internet ecosystem should inspire us to thrive to 
put community in the center of our preoccupations. The rest will follow, namely 
identifying the best possible jurisdiction(s) that can take into account our 
bottom-up, consensus driven processes.

Boubakar


On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Andrew Alston 
> wrote:
Alain,

Quite frankly – I think what you have said here is, at best, extremely naive 
and at worst incredibly irresponsible.

Yes, AfriNIC is a community of members that believes in a bottom up approach.  
You are correct there – and within the bounds of the law the bottom up process 
must be respected.

However – AfriNIC is also a registered legal entity, subject to the bounds of a 
legal act, in the jurisdiction in which it is domiciled.

There are sections of the companies act that can be overridden by a company’s 
bylaws (Referred to in the act as the company’s constitution), and sections 
that cannot.  The act is very explicit about any section that cannot be 
overridden.  For example, the companies act as refers to proxies specifically 
states:

 Fifth Schedule, section 6, subsection e(ii):

Clause 6 other than paragraph (d)(v) shall apply notwithstanding any contrary 
provision in any constitution adopted by the company.

What you are advocating below is to ignore the law for convenience sake – or 
because the will of the majority wish us to ignore the law.  To do so creates 
legal liability, which in turn could result in tremendous financial liability 
of the company, potentially place any elected director at risk of legal action 
and sequestration were the board to sanction an action outside of the law, and 
place the entire entity at risk.

We have all watched the IANA transition of late, and all welcomed the fact that 
the transition is proceeding.  But there is something to learn from that 
process – at all times – the law was followed, and was respected.  Do you 
believe that because the will of the Internet community said it should go 
ahead, had the amicus brief filed yesterday and the subsequent hearing to block 
the baseless injunction that was filed failed, the law would have been ignored 
because that is what the people wished?  I think not.

It scares me to death when I see people who have stood for board positions, and 
in some case former board members, advocating for ignoring the law.  It reminds 
me of what I have seen in South Africa in recent years, where countless times 
the incumbent government has ignored the law because they thought they could.  
In the end – time and again the courts have ruled against them and slapped them 
down, at huge expense to both the party and the country as a whole.

Yes – the community must have their say – yes the bylaws must be respected – 
but at the end of the day, the law is supreme, the law cannot be violated, not 
for you, not for me, not for convenience, but because it is exactly that.  The 
Law.  Badru has time and again stated that there are other juristrictions if we 
do not like the current laws – though in most cases when this has been stated, 
I’ve actually gone and looked at the various companies acts in a number of 
countries and found the laws to be similar if not identical.  So, if you don’t 
like the laws, put a special resolution to the floor to move AfriNIC.  Then – 
abide by the result that comes if you fail to get the super majority that is 
required.  Alternatively, accept that the community as a whole is happy with 
the current legal state.

However – do not advocate for violating the law (because that is what you are 
doing when you suggest we ignore the law) because it seems expedient – that is 
totally irresponsible and outright dangerous.  I for one also pray that the 
board is never made up of individuals who believe the law can be violated and 
ignored at will – because it will be the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Bylaws changes

[Badru Ntege]

On 11/11/16, 10:55 AM, "Alan Barrett"  wrote:

>
>> On 10 Nov 2016, at 02:22, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>> I believe that such policies should not be subject to the usual 
>>> rough-consensus requirement.  In cases where the community is deadlocked 
>>> and unable to reach consensus, I believe that it should be possible for the 
>>> Board to mke a decision that clears the deadlock.  I suggest that only the 
>>> Members should be able to overturn such a Board decision, by a vote with 
>>> two-thirds supermajority.
>> 
>> I think there is an alternative that is better…
>> 
>> In the normal process, consensus of the community is required to enact the 
>> policy.
>> 
>> In the process where the board has found it necessary to place policy in 
>> effect to be reviewed by the community, I believe that a default of “Policy 
>> stands as board implemented” with a requirement for consensus to reverse the 
>> board decision is a perfectly adequate solution.
>> 
>> In this way, if the community deadlocks, the board action stands. Only if 
>> there is consensus can the board be reversed.
>> 
>> This still leaves the policy development completely in the hands of the 
>> stakeholders.
>> 
>> IMHO, this is less likely to deadlock than your proposal where it is 
>> possible that the membership would oppose the board action by some narrow 
>> margin, but the community overall may support it.
>> 
>> Does that make sense, or am I misunderstanding the intent here?
>
>I am having difficulty drafting appropriate text.  One of the difficulties is 
>that the rough consensus requirement is in the PDP, not in the Bylaws.
>
>My current feeling is that the Bylaws should be silent about how the community 
>endorses or rejects a policy, but should say what heppens is a policy is 
>rejected (not endorsed).  Here’s suggested text:
>
>11.5   Endorsement of policy adopted by the Board:
>(a) Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article 11.4 shall 
>be submitted to the community for endorsement or rejection at the next public 
>policy meeting.
>(b) In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, 
>the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its 
>non-endorsement; however, any actions taken in terms of the policy prior to 
>such non-endorsement shall remain valid.

I do not have suggested changes to (b)  but this would be a problem, in that a 
policy can be put in place to achieve a onetime objective that might not be 
supported by community fully aware that the policy will be rejected.

We might want to think of something like an online quick forum to give 
community an opportunity to understand the urgent need. This maintains the 
openness.  And if a reversal is needed at the AGM it does not become an issue.

Badru



>
>Alan Barrett
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Bylaws changes

[Badru Ntege]

Alan








On 11/13/16, 7:05 AM, "Alan Barrett"  wrote:
 
>
>I think that recusal from voting is important enough to be entrenched in the 
>bylaws.  Recusal from participation in discussion is often a good idea, but 
>it’s easy to imagine cases where it would not be a good idea (for example, the 
>conflicted director may be able to answer questions from other directors), so 
>I am not proposing to add that to the bylaws.


Though I get your point above,  this is a double edged sword where if a member 
has an interest in an issue there ability to eloquently and passionately 
discuss and debate the issue is enough to usually sway other members so 
recurrsal from voting will not help the situation since other members have 
already been convinced by a conflicted member.

Its usually good practice for the member not to participate in the issue at all 
and at times they are not even in the room.  I tend to prefer the option where 
the conflicted member is not involved at all in the discussion.

Regards




>
>Alan Barrett
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Bylaws changes

[Badru Ntege]

Hi Alan 






> 
>My main goal in the current round of Bylaws changes is to make it very 
>difficult for AFRINIC to be captured by a minority interest.  The proposed 
>limits of two Directors per organisation and two Directors per sub-region are 
>more than sufficient to ensure that no one organisation or one sub-region has 
>the majority of votes in the Board.

Definitions are very important and I think definition of “minority interest” is 
very important.  Capture is not only organizational or even regional, we have 
seen other sorts of capture around a number of entities our entity not 
excluded, so its vital that we find a solution that cuts across.



>
>Alan Barrett
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Limit on the number of proxies

[Badru Ntege]

Alan

I think this can be brought to rest if we get a position from the Afrinic Legal 
council then subsequent legal discussion would be based on a fixed 
organisational position.  

I see this as the quickest route to closure.  I believe we need to close these 
open issues quicker by narrowing down and then exploring the official position.

Regards









On 11/12/16, 2:04 PM, "Alan Barrett"  wrote:

>[I changed the subject to match the discussion]
>
>> On 12 Nov 2016, at 10:17, Marcus K. G. Adomey  wrote:
>> On 11/11/2016 15:47, Marcus K. G. Adomey wrote:
>>> Dear Chairman and CEO of AfriNIC,
>>> 
>>> The discussion on accountability on this list led to the issue of the 
>>> illegality of AfriNIC. At this stage of the affairs of AfriNIC, we are 
>>> about to adopt changes to the bylaws. My question is:
>>> 
>>> Has the issue of AfriNIC illegality been addressed before proceeding with 
>>> the discussion on the bylaw? 
>>> 
>>> Have I missed a something? If so forgive me.
>> 
>> Kindly read 
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2016-October/000863.html
>
>That message is about a possible conflict between the limit of no more than 5 
>proxies specified in the Bylaws article 12.12(viii), and the Companies Act.
>
>I have heard several different legal opinions on this, both first hand and 
>indirectly.  My current opinion, which is subject to change if I hear 
>additional legal arguments, is that:
>
>* Associate Members may not vote, so proxies are irrelevant to them.
>
>* Proxy limits, if any, apply only to elections, not to votes on resolutions.
>
>* The limit in the Bylaws article 12.12(viii) does not apply to proxies issued 
>by Registered Members, but does apply to proxies issued by Resource Members.
>
>* Although the limit in the Bylaws section 12.12(viii) is phrased in terms of 
>proxies carried by a “member entitled to vote”, the limit applies equally to 
>proxies carried by an individual person who is not a member.
>
>In other words, the limit applies to proxies that are used during elections, 
>and that are issued by Resource Members, and that are carried either by other 
>members or by individual people who are not members.  The limit does not apply 
>to proxies that are issued by Registered Members. The limit does not apply to 
>proxies used during votes that are not elections.
>
>Again, the above is my current understanding of the situation, but it is 
>subject to change if I receive additional legal opinions.
>
>Alan Barrett
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Bylaws changes

[Badru Ntege]

Comments inline 


On 9 Nov 2016, at 2:37 pm, Mark Elkins  wrote:
> 
> And if the Board has never abused this PDP power (never even used it at
> all) since inception yet has always had the power to do this - why then
> is it really a problem?

There's always a first time so a need to be proactive 


> 
> The membership could still look for blood in other ways if necessary.

I think this sentiment can be devisive and past events tend to make it an 
unfortunate norm. See my comment below 


> 
> If we do have such a Bylaw (to stop potential abuse) - this would have
> to be done by a membership vote - not a PDP meeting "consensus". This
> might be up to 5 months away - time for lots of damage - etc.
> 
> On the other hand - if the Board decided that they needed to have an
> expedited policy introduced - and they asked the Membership to vote
> (electronically) on it - AFRINIC staff could probably pull that exercise
> off within a working week - which should be fast enough.

Fully agree we could even have an electronic system built and ready for other 
potential issues that community could have input or board could gauge community 
sentiment on issues to assist in decision making. 


> 
> The Board is not stupid, neither is the membership.
> 
> 
> Just thoughts.
> 
> -- 
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Bylaws changes

[Badru Ntege]

Andrew 

On 11/13/16, 10:01 PM, "Andrew Alston"  wrote:

Noah, I am trying to understand this.

So, which country do you consider me from? South Africa because I hold a South 
African passport? Kenya because I have lived there for 3 years, am married to a 
Kenyan and have a child who holds both? Or for the purposes of this am from 
both?

I think this is elementary your domicile location does not negate your origin.  
You are south African.  Marriage or family does not change where you come from. 
 


If I am South African - then it means nothing that I don't live there anymore 
and that's bizarre, if I am considered Kenyan, then by the same token Alan 
would be Mauritian at the moment, and one of the current board members would be 
Singaporean.

We need to keep the CEO out of this discussion.


Who gives a damn where people are from, the board is there to run a company and 
ensure it remains a solid on going concern  with decent corporate governance. 
That makes it about skills, not where someone is from.

I think the above statement could have been delivered with more decorum.  

Furthermore - I honestly see this whole thing as more fearmongering with no 
substantiation or evidence to support it. What exactly are these people going 
to collude on? What is the motivation you prescribe for this mythical 
organizational capture people seem to believe would happen? To what end and 
what substantiation is there for these fears?

If the fears exist in some people lets respect that and seek to understand 
exactly what the fear is and then logically and respectively handle the fear.  
What matters most is that all members feel represented equitably.

Or are we all just playing the Donald trump card and stirring fear and paranoia 
for the sake of it?

I believe this card has been played enough times in AfriNic and is one of the 
reasons we are discussing these issues and many more which do little to ensure 
the mission of AfriNic.  But that’s dialogue for another day.

Regards


Andrew

From: Noah 
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 7:18:26 PM
To: Mark Elkins
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bylaws changes
 
On 13 Nov 2016 18:48, "Mark Elkins"  wrote:
>
>
> > The CEO country should never have someone run to represent the non
> > geographic since if elected, the board would end up with 3 directors
> > from a single country that is CEO, subregion and non geo.
>
> For a moment - I was worried. Then I realised that even though Alan is
> South African from the Southern African subregion - he lives in
> Mauritius, part of the Indian Ocean subregion..
>

This is not about Alan. Its obvious the CEO will alway relocate to .mu though 
he or she would never represent the Indian Ocean subregion.

What we need to limit is the number of folk from the same country as the CEO to 
1 at any given rotation.

> Regardless, I think this idea is stupid. The CEO should not be in this
> count at all.
>

Its valid since the CEO always becomes a full time director of the board.

> There should not be any "Country limits" - just a maximum of two per
> subregion

There should be a country limit of 1 so that per subregion 2 different 
countries can have the total of 2 folk. 

Diversity as other countries also have experienced folk to serve not just a few 
common countries year after year. 

For East Africa subregion, it would be great to also have experienced folk from 
Burundi or Rwanda next round just like coutries like Kenya Uganda and Tanzania 
who have had the opportunity to serve.

> and all numbers should exclude the CEO - or it will always be unfair on
> the AFRINIC host subregion - the Indian Ocean subregion for now.
>

That is still open to debate.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [AFRINIC-Announce] Governance Commitete election results

[Badru Ntege]

+1

Sent from my iPhone

On 2 Dec 2016, at 17:21, Bope Domilongo Christian 
> wrote:


I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the elected GC members. 
My only advice to  them is they shall make sure that each member is independent 
and work for the interest of AfriNIC and the community at Large.

Regards,
Bope

On 30 Nov 2016 6:07 p.m., "Alan Barrett" 
> wrote:
Dear AFRINIC members and community,

I am pleased to announce the results of the AFRINIC Governance Committee 
election conducted on 30 November 2016.

To serve a three-year term (Jan 2017 to Dec 2019):
Isatou Jah (The Gambia, Western Africa)

To serve a two-year term (Jan 2017 to Dec 2018):
Wafa Dahmani (Tunisia, Northern Africa)

To serve  one-year term (Jan 2017 to Dec 2017):
Abdalla Omari (Kenya, Eastern Africa)

The vote counts were:

41 John Walubengo (Kenya, Eastern Africa)
43 Abdalla Omari (Kenya, Eastern Africa)
 9 Caroline Muthoni Mwangi (Kenya, Eastern Africa)
53 Wafa Dahmani (Tunisia, Northern Africa)
57 Isatou Jah (The Gambia, Western Africa)
39 Zeimm Bibi Auladin-Suhootoorah (Mauritius, Indian Ocean)
 3 None of the above

Regards,

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Badru Ntege]

Arsene

The community should be wary not to be played.


On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Arsène Tungali"  wrote:
Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no 
African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the 
ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is 
not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is 
working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community 
members (even if authors were mentioned as well).

Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that 
published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. 
??

And again this is the same media house that has historically published 
information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is 
involved…..just saying





In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African 
governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they 
dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some 
governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be 
altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). 

This surely is something for the governance committee to look into.  
 
A touch of “Tilapia” arround this whole policy proposal.  



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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Badru Ntege]

Andrew 

On 4/13/17, 5:35 PM, "Andrew Alston" <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:


That being said – at the request of other media organisations – the authors 
have chosen to give their perspectives.  So far one such article has actually 
been published and can be found here:

 

https://qz.com/957821/a-proposal-to-africas-internet-registry-afrinic-aims-to-deny-governments-ip-addresses-for-shutting-down-the-internet/

 


Not sure about the correctness when it comes to how the RIR  PDP process should 
be working but also what a sitting board member can and cannot do. (baring in 
mind the board menber is a community member first.)

Can we get a guidance position on this from either GC or CEO.

Regards

 Badru




Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com] 
Sent: 13 April 2017 17:21
To: Arsène Tungali <arsenebag...@gmail.com>; Bope Domilongo Christian 
<christianb...@gmail.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>; rpd 
<r...@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown 
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

 

Arsene

 

The community should be wary not to be played.

 

 

On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Arsène Tungali" <arsenebag...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no 
African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the 
ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is 
not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is 
working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community 
members (even if authors were mentioned as well).

Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that 
published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. 
??

 

And again this is the same media house that has historically published 
information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is 
involved…..just saying

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African 
governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they 
dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some 
governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be 
altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). 

This surely is something for the governance committee to look into.  

 

A touch of “Tilapia” arround this whole policy proposal.  

 

 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Confusion...

[Badru Ntege]

So Andrew

Some of my comments will be directed to you in this response since your 
submission was directed at the community

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Jul 2017, at 17:41, Andrew Alston 
> wrote:

Hi All,

I decided to post this, because I am getting more and more confused by this 
community every day.


  1.  This community cried for transparency – in response – they got the board 
minutes.  As I have pointed out in previous emails – those minutes do not 
contain all the information – and in fact, under the Mauritian code of 
corporate governance, the minutes of committee meetings should also be 
published to create full transparency which is not happening.  I have raised 
this on the list – the community has remained silent – this makes me question 
if it was really transparency this community was looking for – or was it 
ammunition for perceived wrongs in the past?


even the community has its limits. When the people we elected to serve us 
suddenly become our masters we save our energies and wait to remove them 
through the ballot we hoped board would give us a fresh leadership out of the 9 
members they have but we got the status quo again



  1.
  2.  This community is confronted with legal opinion – that clearly and 
demonstrably shows that policy proposals put the organisation at risk – yet 
members of this community continue to insist we ignore those concerns and 
proceed anyway – in what would be a direct violation of the directors fiduciary 
duties were they to pass it, yet the same community insisted on the creation of 
a governance committee to ensure that AfriNIC was acting within the bounds of 
solid corporate governance – this is a contradiction in terms

With all respect legal opinion can be subjective. It was the board actions that 
prompted the need for a governance committee. We might not want to re open 
those pages but I'm sure you understand


  1.
  2.  In the Mauritian meeting – the community was faced with 20 special 
resolutions – they chose to vote against the vast majority of those – despite 
having it clearly explained that those resolutions were largely tabled after a 
review about areas that need to be fixed.

???really



  1.
 *   To illustrate this point – one of those resolutions would have bound a 
sitting director to returning his company membership when his directorship 
expired – and while this was standard practice, the voting down of this special 
resolution has now created a serious problem – should a director leaving the 
board refuse to return his company membership – there is now a vote – from this 
community – affirming the fact that he has no obligation to do so.  In 
effective – voting that down legitimized a director holding onto his registered 
membership status into perpetuity.  I might point out that the rights and 
powers of a registered member also *FAR* outstrip the actual legal rights of 
any normal member.

More reason to compel the Mauritius authorities our hosts to create a special 
category for AfriNIC or find a jurisdiction that will we have over 50 options.

By the way Andrew have you rescinded your membership???



  1.
 *
  2.  For years I sat and watched this community attack the board over the 
financials – yet – now – when questions are asked specifically for detailed 
information that is highly relevant to the organisations financials – the same 
people who attacked for so long – sit silent and have not a word to say – again 
– is this because they weren’t actually after financial transparency and were 
simply looking for ammunition?  Or is there another reason for it?

Are we reading the same mailing list ???



Basically – what I see is various members of this community that want to make 
selective demands on the company and the board – when it suits them – when they 
need ammunition for whatever agenda they are pursuing – but once that agenda 
fades – they go completely silent.

What I am saying is – if we want a fully functional RIR and a board that is 
subject to this community who elects them  - the only way we can do that is to 
be consistent with our message and communicate clearly and without ambiguity – 
rather than simply sending our messages when it suits us.

Really – I am deeply confused by what I am seeing from members of this 
community – and I’d really like to better understand it.

So Andrew your submission over the last few years is that you went to the board 
to deliver transparency and one of your relection claims were that you are the 
one that brought out the transparency.  Are you telling us that the day you 
left the board did a complete U turn on all your good work ??



Andrew

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Questions about transparency

[Badru Ntege]

So I'm curious how this will contribute to the achievement of AfriNICs mission 
statement. Or even the internet community in general.

I would rather prefer to see your energys directed in an additive activity

Sent from my iPhone

On 14 Jul 2017, at 10:22, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Having read all of this,

I would like to start a bit of a research project in my spare (albeit limited) 
time – so here is what I plan to do.

I want to analyse every single email across the various lists going back 6 
years – in an attempt to identify the factions that exists (as has been stated 
at all 3 of the last 3 meetings, there is a definite sense of factionalism 
within the AfriNIC community, and that observation has been made at the 
microphone by multiple people)
Then, let us identify


  1.  When these factions arose and why
  2.  Who are the people who are leading these factions

Then – once that information has been gathered in as objective fashion as 
possible, through looking at the emails and the responses, the substantiation 
behind those responses, looking at the videos of the PDP meeting and the 
questions at the microphone and the responses to follow-ups etc, we can then 
look at potentially finding a way to resolve the divides, potentially even by 
putting the leaders of said factions in the same room and getting them to work 
out the issues, so that we can get back to a point where we are discussing 
based on policy, based on content, and based on issues that are substantive, 
rather than from a geographic, linguistic or other perspective.

Now – such a complete research project if it is to be done properly, is 
immensely time consuming due to the volume of material to go through, and so, 
I’d like to invite volunteers who would like to assist in this project.  This 
also helps to mitigate the risk that the report that comes out of this will be 
in any way biased, since those working on it are volunteers from across the 
continent.

Please email me off list if you’d be willing to assist.

Thanks

Andrew


From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com]
Sent: 14 July 2017 10:15
To: Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com<mailto:o...@delong.com>>
Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Questions about transparency



Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Jul 2017, at 08:10, Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com<mailto:o...@delong.com>> 
wrote:

However, I am certain you are unlikely to share my perspective as you are 
almost certainly allied with this group of ill-behaved malcontents.

???
I'm allied with the Afrinic community whichever name one might choose to give 
the community and membership works well with me.



Owen

On Jun 5, 2017, at 19:13 , Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:

Ali

Thanks for highlighting the issues bellow.  Some board members have claimed 
championing transparency but I think we all need to have the same definition of 
the word.

The issue of publishing the minutes was a community mandate to the board not a 
board initiative.  I also like the issue on declaring interest.

However the community is not blind and eventually the truth comes out as we saw 
in Nairobi where the community spoke resoundingly in both ASO and board 
elections.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Jun 2017, at 12:39, Ali Hussein 
<a...@hussein.me.ke<mailto:a...@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:
Mark and all

Let's raise the bar on transparency and proper reporting is super critical.

For example a quick perusal of the Afrinic Website tells me that:-

1. The last minutes posted were in February this year. I see there was another 
Board meeting in April which has no minutes posted yet. Can we try and ensure 
that board minutes are available for circulation online within 2 weeks of the 
meeting being held?

2. It is common best practice for Board members to declare their interests (if 
any) before any board meeting and these to be duly recorded in the minutes. 
This will go a long way in enhancing the transparency conversation.

3.  I also note that in the February Board minutes that agenda Item No. 5 on 
Committees there are no committee reports for Audit and Remuneration. Also no 
other board committee reports have been presented.
Question:- why are there no reports on the Audit and Remuneration reports 
committees? Is this an oversight or were they simply not ready? Can the Board 
consider making the other committee reports available to the community?

4. It is now also standard for organizations to publish a Sustainability 
Report. Most public for profit companies in Kenya now publish a sustainability 
report. This is even more critical in an Organisation like Afrinic. To give us 
a sample of what this may look like please see Safaricom's 2016 Sustainability 
Report below:-

Re: [Community-Discuss] Questions about transparency

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Jul 2017, at 08:10, Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com<mailto:o...@delong.com>> 
wrote:


However, I am certain you are unlikely to share my perspective as you are 
almost certainly allied with this group of ill-behaved malcontents.

???
I'm allied with the Afrinic community whichever name one might choose to give 
the community and membership works well with me.


Owen

On Jun 5, 2017, at 19:13 , Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:

Ali

Thanks for highlighting the issues bellow.  Some board members have claimed 
championing transparency but I think we all need to have the same definition of 
the word.

The issue of publishing the minutes was a community mandate to the board not a 
board initiative.  I also like the issue on declaring interest.

However the community is not blind and eventually the truth comes out as we saw 
in Nairobi where the community spoke resoundingly in both ASO and board 
elections.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Jun 2017, at 12:39, Ali Hussein 
<a...@hussein.me.ke<mailto:a...@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:

Mark and all

Let's raise the bar on transparency and proper reporting is super critical.

For example a quick perusal of the Afrinic Website tells me that:-

1. The last minutes posted were in February this year. I see there was another 
Board meeting in April which has no minutes posted yet. Can we try and ensure 
that board minutes are available for circulation online within 2 weeks of the 
meeting being held?

2. It is common best practice for Board members to declare their interests (if 
any) before any board meeting and these to be duly recorded in the minutes. 
This will go a long way in enhancing the transparency conversation.

3.  I also note that in the February Board minutes that agenda Item No. 5 on 
Committees there are no committee reports for Audit and Remuneration. Also no 
other board committee reports have been presented.
Question:- why are there no reports on the Audit and Remuneration reports 
committees? Is this an oversight or were they simply not ready? Can the Board 
consider making the other committee reports available to the community?

4. It is now also standard for organizations to publish a Sustainability 
Report. Most public for profit companies in Kenya now publish a sustainability 
report. This is even more critical in an Organisation like Afrinic. To give us 
a sample of what this may look like please see Safaricom's 2016 Sustainability 
Report below:-

https://www.safaricom.co.ke/images/Downloads/Resources_Downloads/sustainabilityreport_2016.pdf

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a 
habit."  ~ Aristotle


Sent from my iPad

On 5 Jun 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mark Elkins 
<m...@posix.co.za<mailto:m...@posix.co.za>> wrote:


I agree with you Ali. When Andrew first campaigned to be a Board member, one of 
his goals was increased transparency. I believe that he has helped, with the 
rest of the Board, achieve this. Transparency though is an ongoing process and 
its a pity that Andrew was not re-elected to continue assisting in that process.

Regarding Andrews points:

a) Travel in Africa is not cheap. Rather than just a single line for travel, 
I'd like to see it a bit more broken up though, categorised something like;
 i) Training sessions 10, people 20, cost $10,000
 ii) Meetings 2, people 40, cost $20,000
 iii) Board Travel 8, trips 32, cost $20,000

(or something like that)

b - d) Again, I'd like to see a bit more break down, especially in the case of 
unaudited organisations. On d), the ASO/NRO fees are proportionally paid by 
RIRs. AfriNIC does pay the lowest proportion.

e) I think the moratorium on Business class travel should be maintained, but 
have the option to upgrade their flights at their expense. When flying for 
AfriNIC, I was given a Priority Pass card. That privilege should stay to give 
people access to lounges.  I'm happy the CEO flies business (at his 
discretion). If it was a long flight (ARIN, USA) and overnight and that Board 
member is the only AfriNIC representative and was presenting the "AfriNIC" 
slides, let them fly business. I did that once (but travelled economy).

On 05/06/2017 08:21, Ali Hussein wrote:
Andrew

You raise pertinent and important issues.

The rule of thumb for any public organization is that Transparency trumps (no 
pun intended) everything else.

If I were asked and was a member of the Board, I'd advocate for FULL disclosure 
on financial and operational matters. How money was spent, how much, what was 
the impact, who received it etc. That in my humble opinion is the best policy. 
Let us err on the side of too much information as opposed to too little 
informatio

Re: [Community-Discuss] Board-Community Engagement

[Badru Ntege]

Chair 

Thank you for your communication however I worry if we are introducing more 
complications to fix a simple issue. 

The whole idea of the community lists I would have thought is the transparency 
but also consensus and bottom up. 

CEO is an employee if the primarily answerable to the board which is answerable 
to the community.  

I feel you are burdening the CEO with this plan.  

The open discussion list allows community to also filter some requests which 
then get discussed and finally answered in totality. 

In my simple view the problem is simple a method of responding to issues in 
time would appease the community.  

Hope other members see it this way I will also be okay if members see it your 
way but an open discussion would allow and protect our concept of consensus 

Regards 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 28 Jun 2017, at 17:16, Sunday Folayan  wrote:
> 
> Dear Community,
> 
> As part of our efforts to enhance the Board-community engagement process, the 
> Board is introducing an open microphone session at all subsequent AfriNIC 
> meetings, whether there is an AGMM or SGMM or not.
> 
> The Open Mic sessions will be at least One hour (with provisions for more 
> time). It will afford the community, an opportunity to discuss wide ranging 
> issues and also interact with the Board and the Staff.
> 
> As part of the engagement process, we will appreciate if the Community can 
> take note of the following:
> 
> - Issues of Strategic nature should be sent to bo...@afrinic.net.
> 
> - Issues of Operational nature should be sent to c...@afrinic.net
> 
> When in doubt, please be kind enough to send the request to c...@afrinic.net 
> and it will be routed appropriately.
> 
> In order to avoid any doubts on the existing communication channels, it 
> should be noted that  the community (community-discuss@afrinic.net) and 
> Members (members-disc...@afrinic.net) discussion lists will continue to 
> exist. Indeed, such requests can be copied to such lists.
> 
> These are in addition to the service related contacts set out in the AFRINIC 
> Service Level Commitment at https://afrinic.net/en/services/afrinic-slc
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Sunday Folayan
> Chair, AfriNIC Board
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Closure: was: Board Statement on Board Member's Conduct

[Badru Ntege]

Members

I would like to ask that we close this thread. The main objective of the AIS17 
event was that we had a successful workshop week. We also had an engaging 
meeting week.

The organisation had challenges but besides all challenges the community came 
together discussed, and ended the meeting at a positive note.

We are all continuously learning to make sure that the next event is better. 
Sometimes we will get it wrong, a reminder that we are human.

Tolerance of our diversity and trust for each other is what has built this 
strong community. At times we will strain this equilibrium but ultimately we 
all have the best intentions.

I ask that we look at all the good and positive outcomes, and learn from where 
we  collectively failed as we look forward to meet as a unified community in 
both Nigeria and Senegal.

Regards
Badru



Sent from my iPhone

On 9 Jun 2017, at 23:36, Ismail Settenda 
> wrote:

+1

I too disagree it was abuse...a painful example maybe but if it is good manners 
you advocating for then lets first be appreciative then complain.

As it is I didnt see any email apperiacating the speed and good internet 
beforehand ... then not escalate things needlessly..!

Regards
--
Ismail

[https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B-WIT8x-vTBbNUloejlOa2YzUGhYMTV3MlF5dUZsODlDS1BZ=download]

On 9 June 2017 at 20:56, McTim 
> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Danny 
> wrote:
> Dear Mark,
>
> Ben Roberts behavior was another abuse of this community's patience.

I disagree.

I recall a RIPE meeting where the v4 connectivity was shut off to
demonstrate what
that was like, and no one batted an eye.

I thank Liquid for their support and applaud them for their political courage.

The point was to show us that it is no fun having your Internet cut
off, they made that point quite well I think.



Regards,

McTim




> What if liquid was not sponsoring connectivity. How would Ben have
> demonstrated his unnecessary shutdown?
>
>
> Doing such shutdown  on a sponsored link under SLA for a major regional
> event (AIS) does not give honor to liquid telecom.
>
> I would suggest that the AIS conveners signal this to liquid telecom top
> management in their thank you message.
>
> Local host should always ensure high availability by having at least 2
> service providers regardless of how many fiber links one provider can bring
> into the conference after all even during the workshop week, Liquid internet
> was down for 2 hours due to router failure and if there was a second
> provider like Safaricon, Wananchi or Seacom such outage would have been
> avoided.
>
> Local host should ensure more than 1 provider in future AIS event after such
> premeditated situations.
>
> Thanks.
>
> 2017-06-09 14:24 GMT+02:00 Sunday Folayan 
> >:
>>
>> Dear Benjamin,
>>
>> There is nothing to investigate on that matter. The community protested
>> the dramatic shutdown with strong words at the mic that day.
>>
>> An apology was tendered by Ben Roberts on the floor immediately. I thought
>> the community closed the matter then.
>>
>> The AIS Programme Committee is in the best position to respond and address
>> the issue of sole connectivity provider. They know what to learn/unlearn
>> from Nairobi.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2017 12:24, "Benjamin Eshun" 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Dear Sunday,
>>
>> Thank you for the information.
>>
>> Have we investigated the Internet shutdown which occurred during the
>> AFRINIC Public Policy meeting at AIS2017, in order to clarify the
>> responsibilities of Connectivity sponsor and of AIS NOC team on the Incident
>> ?
>>
>> How come AIS2017 was run with only one Connectivity provider ?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Benjamin
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Sunday Folayan 
>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Community,
>>>
>>> In my previous communication to the community dated 29th May 2017,
>>> AFRINIC board undertook to further investigate the matter under reference.
>>>
>>> During the course of the investigation, statements were obtained from
>>> Prof. Quaynor as well as others who personally witnessed the incident.
>>>
>>> Mr Alston, has admitted having made the improper remarks, the subject
>>> matter of the incident under reference, in a subsequent apology to the
>>> Board.
>>>
>>> Prof Quaynor has equally apprised the Chairman and Vice- Chairman of the
>>> Board that Mr Alston has privately apologized to him.
>>>
>>> The Board has, after considering the apology tendered, and the nature of
>>> the remarks made, issued a written warning to Mr Alston.
>>>
>>> This is for the information of the Community.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>
>>> Sunday Folayan.
>>>
>>> Chair, AFRINIC Board.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29/05/2017 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Closed members and recovered resources

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Jun 2017, at 15:13, Sunday Folayan  wrote:
> 
> The Auditor's Report is already published along with the Financial 
> Statements. The Board believes that the Management letter is a confidential 
> document.

Why would the management letter be . Confidential
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Annual Financial Statements 2016

[Badru Ntege]

Chevalier

I like the way you have responded to this. If only someone was listening or 
reading from the other side

Role of chair and CEO are more than title. They are roles with unique 
responsibilities.

Regards


Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Jun 2017, at 07:12, Chevalier du Borg 
> wrote:


2017-06-16 19:25 GMT+04:00 Sunday Folayan 
>:

1. Should Board and staff respond to all issues, and are they obliged to do so?


if issue concern resources (which AFRINIC hold and manage on behalf of this 
community). yes we expect reponse, even if is to point to correct link




2. Should Chair or CEO acknowledge all questions and routes to an appropriate 
person?


if CEO and chair have not at this time understand what each should respond to, 
we have a problem.
we expect answers about operational thing to come from CEO first. of course if 
CEO is not respond, the community can ask board chair intervention
if you have to cordinate with CEO behind to get and answer, do it. what is NOT 
good is long period of silence to legitime question.




3. Chair or CEO acknowledges all posts and provides an estimated response time?.


will doing that help us community? or break us? is this common sense thing to 
do? with reasonable timeline?
let not forget that this community has see many thing asked, ignored and buried.


4. Should members explicitly address chair or CEO in discussions instead of 
"can someone respond?"


See answer to no. 2 question



5. Should members directly write Afrinic instead of posting urgent questions on 
the mailing lists?


on thing that concern them directly - yes
on thing that concern whole community - no



6. Should Afrinic policy liaison monitors the lists and brings noteworthy or 
urgent issues to the attention of the CEO as the case may be?


do we have to tell people how to do their job here?
in any case this is community discuss, not RPD
the big question: is an engage community something the company and board want? 
how does that happen and where?


7. Should the chair always respond to all operational issues or extract answers 
from the CEO and relay?

See answer to no. 2 question


8. Are you addressing Chair, Board, Staff or all?




It is important that I get you right. What do you suggest?


this is how an active community look like. we cannot have conversation with 
ourself so please give us respect of answer when we have questions. they must 
not be immediat, but at least engage.

--
Borg le Chevalier
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Annual Financial Statements 2016

[Badru Ntege]

Mike

What you are suggesting is a result of what happens in an organization when 
trust is erroded.

As much as I think this might work I do not beleive it's what we want.  I would 
like the return of the spirit within Afrinic was born. An error where we 
trusted each other and the board had enough humility to come to the community 
and say we have a problem and this is how we think we can solve it.

This was before the era of NDA's. Where we even ask our founding members who 
gave so much to ensure we have an AfriNic are forced to sign NDA's.

I beleive our community is and should be beyond that. This is a community built 
on passion and voluntary contribution.  The board is our conduit to our company 
and staff.

I still believe if the board chooses it has the capacity and ability to respond 
queries in time. The CEO is an employee of the organization and they are some 
responses he should be sheilded from if the chair and vice took their 
leadership role seriously. We also have 8 competent board members and that team 
can work in a synchronized way.

Let's avoid the draconian methods which kill not only our trust in each other 
but also our cultural norms.

Afrinic is and will always be bigger than anyone of us. It belongs to the 
community of which the members are a subset.

I urge chair and board as a whole to take up the mantle of returning to the 
principles that created the Organization we call AfriNIC recognizing that it 
serves the entire region and appreciating the diversity that this brings.

Let's do the simple basic things we know we must do and the complicated parts 
will always find a resolution.

Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 26 Jun 2017, at 13:34, Mike Silber 
<silber.m...@gmail.com<mailto:silber.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Colleagues

I agree with the views expressed and I suspect (subject to correction) that it 
is being considered from a leadership perspective.

At the same time it is very difficult to anyone to try and tease / extrapolate 
/ imagine queries requiring responses from this list. Many questions asked here 
are rhetorical, others are hypothetical and others (with respect) do not even 
make sense. There is also a level of vitriol and assignment of blame that is 
not helpful.

I would like to propose a formal process to do with community queries. I would 
like to propose the creation of a form or similar guide to actually direct 
queries raised to ensure that board and CEO actually know what is being asked, 
why and can provide a full response.

This is not to “protect” the board and CEO, because the next step is to put in 
an SLA. Once we have a formal request submitted we can start measuring. We can 
also track outstanding issues. I would expect an SLA regarding acknowledgement 
of receipt, an SLA for triage (an answer if the request is simple, a refusal if 
appropriate or notification to the requestor regarding where the request has 
been assigned and when a response can be expected) and and SLA for a response.

Regards

Mike

On 24 Jun 2017, at 11:29, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:

Chevalier

I like the way you have responded to this. If only someone was listening or 
reading from the other side

Role of chair and CEO are more than title. They are roles with unique 
responsibilities.

Regards


Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Jun 2017, at 07:12, Chevalier du Borg 
<virtual.b...@gmail.com<mailto:virtual.b...@gmail.com>> wrote:


2017-06-16 19:25 GMT+04:00 Sunday Folayan 
<sfola...@gmail.com<mailto:sfola...@gmail.com>>:

1. Should Board and staff respond to all issues, and are they obliged to do so?


if issue concern resources (which AFRINIC hold and manage on behalf of this 
community). yes we expect reponse, even if is to point to correct link




2. Should Chair or CEO acknowledge all questions and routes to an appropriate 
person?


if CEO and chair have not at this time understand what each should respond to, 
we have a problem.
we expect answers about operational thing to come from CEO first. of course if 
CEO is not respond, the community can ask board chair intervention
if you have to cordinate with CEO behind to get and answer, do it. what is NOT 
good is long period of silence to legitime question.




3. Chair or CEO acknowledges all posts and provides an estimated response time?.


will doing that help us community? or break us? is this common sense thing to 
do? with reasonable timeline?
let not forget that this community has see many thing asked, ignored and buried.


4. Should members explicitly address chair or CEO in discussions instead of 
"can someone respond?"


See answer to no. 2 question



5. Should members directly write Afrinic instead of posting urgent questions on 
the mailing lists?


on thing that concern them directly - yes
on thing that concern whole community - no



6. Should Afrinic policy liaison monitors the lists and bring

Re: [Community-Discuss] [AFRINIC-Announce] AFRINIC Annual Financial Statements 2016

[Badru Ntege]

 

2017-05-25 8:13 GMT+00:00 Sunday Folayan :

 

Mzee Noah,
 

Thanks for your wishes.
 
 

Do not confuse the rights to see, discuss and query. 
 
 

Because we are transparent and a public institution, the public has the right 
to see, the public has the right to discuss.

I’m I reading this wrong or does it say the public does not have the right to 
query ??

 

Members however have the right to query any details in the Financials.

Interesting boundaries being set here.  

I really like the concept of Bottom up processes and governance but maybe needs 
to be updated 

 


BN.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

[Badru Ntege]

Ish 

And you think you have the ability or power to influence any state by this 
policy ???

This policy is actually doing more Harm to Afrinic than any potential good.  

An image the leadership need to work hard to recover as we work on the real 
Vision of Afrinic 

“Spearheading Internet technology and policy development in the African region”

And the Mission 

“To serve the African community by providing professional and efficient 
management of Internet number resources, supporting Internet technology usage 
and development, and promoting a participative and multi-stakeholder approach 
to Internet self-governance.”

The above two guiding principles of our organization are very clear about 
participative engagement.


So I re-stress my point.  Unless we plan to change the vision and Mission, this 
policy should never have passed the PDP process in the form it was presented.

Badru

 







On 5/14/17, 11:18 AM, "Ish Sookun"  wrote:

>Hi Tutu,
>
>On 14/05/17 01:01, Tutu Ngcaba wrote:
>> 
>> Do you know who appointed the supreme court in country... Its the president.
>> 
>
>The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa [1] says:
>
>  174 (3) The President as head of the national executive, after
>  consulting the Judicial Service Commission and the leaders of
>  parties represented in the National Assembly, appoints the
>  Chief Justice and the Deputy Chief Justice and, after
>  consulting the Judicial Service Commission, appoints the
>  President and Deputy President of the Supreme Court of Appeal.
>
>> So you think the judge will stop govermment when chaos is happening.
>> 
>
>The Constitution also says:
>
>  165 (2) The courts are independent and subject only to the
>  Constitution and the law, which they must apply impartially
>  and without fear, favour or prejudice.
>
>  (3) No person or organ of state may interfere with the functioning
>  of the courts.
>
>> Tell me one example where govermment or president order shutdown when no
>> riot or chaos or protesting of the people. Tell me...
>> 
>
>In 2007 access to Facebook [2] was disrupted in Mauritius because of a
>fake profile of the then prime minister of Mauritius. There were no
>riot, protest or chaos in Mauritius.
>
>In 2012 a state-run ISP [3] in Tajikistan blocked Facebook after
>comments were made on the president. There did not seem to be protests
>or riots in Tajikistan to have caused the ban.
>
>In 2010 a South Korean state agency blocked [4] the North Korean's state
>account on Twitter. No riots or protests caused that.
>
>> You only thinking ooh the government shut it or they blocked it
>> 
>
>No. I am thinking the government blocking the internet has implications
>on freedom of speech and access to information. You mentioned riots and
>chaos. An internet ban during the times of « chaos » sounds similar to
>being shut in a dark room.
>
>> You are not thinking why they government they do it when it was all ok and
>> all citizen enjoyed it freely.
>> 
>
>Governments could argue they are preventing the spread of
>misinformation. In trying to do so by blocking the internet they end up
>hurting the economy and prevent access to information (e.g on cases of
>abuse). Meanwhile misinformation could still be spread through other
>means. If propaganda can leverage on the internet, it can also leverage
>on other (non-electronic) communication mediums. Blocking the internet
>does not stop propaganda.
>
>> Why why why please tell me before you pretending to be in American where
>> the Trump say no refugee and that judge is saying yes refugee yet they
>> America will have the powerful software to spy of the people like the
>> swoden brother who wll go to prison but kept in the russia. Where is the
>> freedom.
>> 
>
>Snowden stood against a privacy abuse.
>
>Thinking that we should not discuss & look for a remedy to internet
>shutdowns because the governments are too powerful, would be a wrong
>thing. One could argue that the RPD is not the place to discuss about
>actions "against governments". I believe though that the RPD can discuss
>internet shutdowns & look for remedy, where the remedy might not
>necessarily be a punitive measure against a government.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ish Sookun
>
>[1]
>http://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/constitution/SAConstitution-web-eng.pdf
>[2]
>https://www.lexpress.mu/article/maurice-censure-le-site-communautaire-%C2%ABfacebook%C2%BB
>[3]
>http://www.reuters.com/article/net-us-tajikistan-facebook-idUSBRE8AQ0JY20121127
>[4] http://mashable.com/2010/08/19/north-korea-twitter-banned/#zoPCks5drqq9
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

[Badru Ntege]

Mark 









On 5/14/17, 11:48 AM, "Mark Elkins"  wrote:

> 
>
>There was one glaring exception, Cameroon.
>
>November 2016:  63,023
>
>May 2017: 31,801
>
>That is, over the period of the Cameroon shutdown, the number of domains
>registered under .CM decreased by more than 50%
>
>That is significant.
>


Do we have any supporting facts that this was the cause or are we making an 
assumption.  





>
>-- 
>Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>m...@posix.co.za   Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
>For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Incident between myself and Prof. Quaynor

[Badru Ntege]

Andrew

As a member of this community it's not the first time nor the last time I'm I 
going to expect this behavior or the customary apology.

We are all adults some of us parents I'm sorry as for me apology not accepted. 
I have said it before and every year you continue to confirm the fact that you 
do not have the maturity to represent this community on the board.

Let's not blame the alcohol.

Every action and word I hear from you makes me cringe but pains me that you 
actually stand and represent Afrinic in the international fora.

Purely my personal sentiments as a full member of this community.

My unapologetic regards.

Badru

Sent from my iPhone

On 29 May 2017, at 13:31, Andrew Alston 
> wrote:

Hi All,

On the night of Saturday the 27th of May, 2017, while having drinks at the bar, 
after a week of intense pressure related to concerns about the event, and under 
the influence of a few beers, as a cultural gesture of reconciliation, I 
delivered a drink to Dr. Quaynor.  This is customary and is done as a show of 
reconciliation.

However, when delivering that drink, it seems that I made a mistake with the 
words that I used and offense was taken.  This was not intended and for the 
offense caused, I offer an unreserved apology.  I also need to reiterate that 
anything said was in no way in my capacity as a board member, and was done on a 
personal basis.

Again, if I have caused offense, I apologize and it was unintended.

Yours Sincerely

Andrew Alston

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Incident between myself and Prof. Quaynor

[Badru Ntege]

+1



On 5/30/17, 7:04 PM, "Benjamin Eshun"  wrote:

Owen

Your genuine comments are duly noted bellow.  But the world over people with 
the best intentions to service all mess up somewhere and are accountable.  We 
have seen people resign from top positions in the US for failing to submit 
information.

What makes it so different for Africa.  250 people are here at AIS because they 
have a passion for the community.  No one has a monopoly on passion.

In my book the community has been very clear that this behavior is 
unacceptable, and the routine apology won’t work since we know it will happen 
again.

I was actually thinking that what powers do Nomcom have in this situation, 
since they seem to have put a candidate on the slate who has proven that he 
might not be fit to be a board member.

We need to start somewhere and I think this is a perfect place to start.  

Andrew needs to do the civil thing accept his weakness and take a break from 
the board and reflect on how he can control his behavior to serve the community 
better in future.

Benjamin   



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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Annual Financial Statements 2016

[Badru Ntege]

Hi McTim

:-) indeed you are being pedantic. However the point is the same whether we are 
discussing 10 members or 100.  A level of response is expected from those we 
elect to oversee our organisation as members which we also hold in trust for 
the wider community. 

> On 16 Jun 2017, at 11:13 pm, McTim <mctimconsult...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Badru,
> 
> To be absolutely pedantic, the dues paying Members elect the Board,
> not the "Community", where the Community = fee payers+ interested
> parties.
> 
> For the purpose of policy making, we are all equal.  For the purpose
> of asking questions regarding financial matters, I believe the fee
> paying folks have greater standing.
> 
> just my 2 bob,
> 
> McTim
> 
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Badru Ntege
> <badru.nt...@nftconsult.com> wrote:
>> Chair
>> 
>> With all due respect the list of questions in a way underpin my worry.  In a
>> bottom up environment we are all equal and the board and organization serve
>> the community.
>> 
>> For clarity the community elects the board,  the then board hires the CEO
>> who then hires the staff so community communications goes to board and
>> chair.
>> 
>> CEO has a dual roll of being staff and board member and thus his right to
>> respond directly to comments.
>> 
>> In my understanding CEO can also authorize staff to respond to issues if he
>> so wishes.
>> 
>> Should you respond to all queries ?? I personally think responding to some
>> and ignoring others could be taken wrongly by the individual who raises what
>> they think is a pertinent issue.
>> 
>> Why my concern ??  I think over the last few months many comments have been
>> ignored or answered after prompt from the sender.
>> 
>> On a number of occasions like bellow we have been given information which
>> turns out to be wrong. Like the issue raised about recovered resources.
>> 
>> I'm sure I need not go further. It just seems community is becoming a
>> nuisance to you at times which is unfortunate. And I read this from your
>> email above and the questions paused
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 16 Jun 2017, at 18:32, Sunday Folayan <sfola...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Badru,
>> 
>> Kindly explain or clarify the gap you have observed, so we can correct this.
>> 
>> I believe to the best of my ability that as chair and on behalf of the
>> Board, I have engaged on matters directed at us, even when they clearly
>> border on operational issues.
>> 
>> It would also be helpful if you further confirm one or more of these to help
>> me see how to lead the board to intervene so as to improve things:
>> 
>> 1. Should Board and staff respond to all issues, and are they obliged to do
>> so?
>> 
>> 2. Should Chair or CEO acknowledge all questions and routes to an
>> appropriate person?
>> 
>> 3. Chair or CEO acknowledges all posts and provides an estimated response
>> time?.
>> 
>> 4. Should members explicitly address chair or CEO in discussions instead of
>> "can someone respond?"
>> 
>> 5. Should members directly write Afrinic instead of posting urgent questions
>> on the mailing lists?
>> 
>> 6. Should Afrinic policy liaison monitors the lists and brings noteworthy or
>> urgent issues to the attention of the CEO as the case may be?
>> 
>> 7. Should the chair always respond to all operational issues or extract
>> answers from the CEO and relay?
>> 
>> 8. Are you addressing Chair, Board, Staff or all?
>> 
>> It is important that I get you right. What do you suggest?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Sunday.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 16, 2017 12:30, "Badru Ntege" <badru.nt...@nftconsult.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Chair
>> 
>> A response from any of the responsible persons might be of value.
>> 
>> I’m concerned that responses coming back to issues raised by community are
>> not being given the due attention, with some glaring omissions which makes
>> the members worry if we have all hands on deck.
>> 
>> Would it be advisable to have some kind of SLA in how long it takes to
>> respond to community and Member queries??
>> 
>> I have noticed it takes quite some time for members to get an
>> acknowledgement on issues raised.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/15/17, 1:36 PM, "Noah" <n...@neo.co.tz> wrote:
>> 
&g

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Annual Financial Statements 2016

[Badru Ntege]

Chair 

A response from any of the responsible persons might be of value.   

I’m concerned that responses coming back to issues raised by community are not 
being given the due attention, with some glaring omissions which makes the 
members worry if we have all hands on deck.

Would it be advisable to have some kind of SLA in how long it takes to respond 
to community and Member queries??

I have noticed it takes quite some time for members to get an acknowledgement 
on issues raised.  

Regards



  
On 6/15/17, 1:36 PM, "Noah"  wrote:



On 14 Jun 2017 3:29 p.m., "Alan Barrett"  wrote:

> On 6 Jun 2017, at 22:19, Noah  wrote:
> Hi Chair,
>
> If the 39,199 was from members who defaulted and went out of business it 
> means the resources are no longer in use by those specific members.
>
> Did we recover those resources back into Afrinic inventory for 
> re-allocation/assignment?
>
> Can we please get a report on the space that was recovered as I couldnt find 
> that anywhere on the AFRINIC website.

Although I was not asked this question, I perceive that some people may expect 
me to answer it.

Hi Alan,

Yes certainly


Yes, resources from members who go out of business are recovered.  The 
recovered resources are quarantined for two years, during which time they are 
marked as RESERVED in the WHOIS database.  After the ene of he quarantine 
period, the recovered resources are released to the pool for possible re-use.

We do not publicise the names of the members concerned.  The reserved space may 
be found in raw data published at .


As far as I am concerned the list of members who defaulted and/or under closure 
used to be published for example the below AFRINIC link.

http://web02.jnb.afrinic.net/community/policy-development/pdwg/1207-closure-list

Why are we being less transparent about this now? In fact since 2014, how many 
members were closed up until 2017 as that record doesnt exist today?

I also checked the 
ftp://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/delegated-afrinic-extended-latest as you 
recommended.  

Are all those 2411 INR marked as “reserved”, resources from recovery? 

If not how can one tell the difference between which are the recovered space 
and everything else?

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Annual Financial Statements 2016

[Badru Ntege]

Chair

With all due respect the list of questions in a way underpin my worry.  In a 
bottom up environment we are all equal and the board and organization serve the 
community.

For clarity the community elects the board,  the then board hires the CEO who 
then hires the staff so community communications goes to board and chair.

CEO has a dual roll of being staff and board member and thus his right to 
respond directly to comments.

In my understanding CEO can also authorize staff to respond to issues if he so 
wishes.

Should you respond to all queries ?? I personally think responding to some and 
ignoring others could be taken wrongly by the individual who raises what they 
think is a pertinent issue.

Why my concern ??  I think over the last few months many comments have been 
ignored or answered after prompt from the sender.

On a number of occasions like bellow we have been given information which turns 
out to be wrong. Like the issue raised about recovered resources.

I'm sure I need not go further. It just seems community is becoming a nuisance 
to you at times which is unfortunate. And I read this from your email above and 
the questions paused

Regards



Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Jun 2017, at 18:32, Sunday Folayan 
<sfola...@gmail.com<mailto:sfola...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Badru,

Kindly explain or clarify the gap you have observed, so we can correct this.

I believe to the best of my ability that as chair and on behalf of the Board, I 
have engaged on matters directed at us, even when they clearly border on 
operational issues.

It would also be helpful if you further confirm one or more of these to help me 
see how to lead the board to intervene so as to improve things:

1. Should Board and staff respond to all issues, and are they obliged to do so?

2. Should Chair or CEO acknowledge all questions and routes to an appropriate 
person?

3. Chair or CEO acknowledges all posts and provides an estimated response time?.

4. Should members explicitly address chair or CEO in discussions instead of 
"can someone respond?"

5. Should members directly write Afrinic instead of posting urgent questions on 
the mailing lists?

6. Should Afrinic policy liaison monitors the lists and brings noteworthy or 
urgent issues to the attention of the CEO as the case may be?

7. Should the chair always respond to all operational issues or extract answers 
from the CEO and relay?

8. Are you addressing Chair, Board, Staff or all?

It is important that I get you right. What do you suggest?

Thanks

Sunday.




On Jun 16, 2017 12:30, "Badru Ntege" 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:
Chair

A response from any of the responsible persons might be of value.

I’m concerned that responses coming back to issues raised by community are not 
being given the due attention, with some glaring omissions which makes the 
members worry if we have all hands on deck.

Would it be advisable to have some kind of SLA in how long it takes to respond 
to community and Member queries??

I have noticed it takes quite some time for members to get an acknowledgement 
on issues raised.

Regards




On 6/15/17, 1:36 PM, "Noah" <n...@neo.co.tz<mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On 14 Jun 2017 3:29 p.m., "Alan Barrett" 
<alan.barr...@afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net>> wrote:

> On 6 Jun 2017, at 22:19, Noah <n...@neo.co.tz<mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>> wrote:
> Hi Chair,
>
> If the 39,199 was from members who defaulted and went out of business it 
> means the resources are no longer in use by those specific members.
>
> Did we recover those resources back into Afrinic inventory for 
> re-allocation/assignment?
>
> Can we please get a report on the space that was recovered as I couldnt find 
> that anywhere on the AFRINIC website.

Although I was not asked this question, I perceive that some people may expect 
me to answer it.

Hi Alan,

Yes certainly


Yes, resources from members who go out of business are recovered.  The 
recovered resources are quarantined for two years, during which time they are 
marked as RESERVED in the WHOIS database.  After the ene of he quarantine 
period, the recovered resources are released to the pool for possible re-use.

We do not publicise the names of the members concerned.  The reserved space may 
be found in raw data published at <ftp://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/stats/afrinic>.


As far as I am concerned the list of members who defaulted and/or under closure 
used to be published for example the below AFRINIC link.

http://web02.jnb.afrinic.net/community/policy-development/pdwg/1207-closure-list

Why are we being less transparent about this now? In fact since 2014, how many 
members were closed up until 2017 as that record doesnt exist today?

I also checked the 
ftp://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/delegated-afrinic-extended-latest 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Annual Financial Statements 2016

[Badru Ntege]

Janvier

Please stop sowing the seed of division. Asking questions in an open and 
transparent community is perfectly ok.

Whether ASO or board one is always  still a stakeholder.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Jun 2017, at 16:05, Janvier NGNOULAYE 
> wrote:

Dear Noah,
Just to advice you to come down, for some requests you can send an Inbox mail 
to CEO or Chair not to the Community list. You are an ASO member now for 
AFRINIC. This means that you are among the leaders team of AFRINIC. Keep united 
with the team please.
Warm regards
Janvier Ngnoulaye


Le 18 juin 2017 09:35, "Noah" > a écrit :


On 18 Jun 2017 11:22 a.m., "Alan Barrett" 
> wrote:

> On 18 Jun 2017, at 11:56, Marcus K. G. Adomey 
> > wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Excuse me, the community is there to make a fuss about issues of transparency 
> and accountability.

Yes, you are.  And in response, I am seeking legal advice about whether or not 
to publish the names of closed members.  Please be patient.


Hi Alan

You clearly did not inform the Community about your decision not to publish the 
list of closed members after 2014?

So while you are seeking legal advice on your two years old decision, can you 
please respond to the other 3 questions below?

1. How many members have been closed in 2015,2016 and 2017?

2. How much ressources have been recovered since?

3. Where are the recovered ressources listed in Afrinic pool of ressources?


Noah



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Questions about transparency

[Badru Ntege]

Ali

Thanks for highlighting the issues bellow.  Some board members have claimed 
championing transparency but I think we all need to have the same definition of 
the word.

The issue of publishing the minutes was a community mandate to the board not a 
board initiative.  I also like the issue on declaring interest.

However the community is not blind and eventually the truth comes out as we saw 
in Nairobi where the community spoke resoundingly in both ASO and board 
elections.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Jun 2017, at 12:39, Ali Hussein 
> wrote:

Mark and all

Let's raise the bar on transparency and proper reporting is super critical.

For example a quick perusal of the Afrinic Website tells me that:-

1. The last minutes posted were in February this year. I see there was another 
Board meeting in April which has no minutes posted yet. Can we try and ensure 
that board minutes are available for circulation online within 2 weeks of the 
meeting being held?

2. It is common best practice for Board members to declare their interests (if 
any) before any board meeting and these to be duly recorded in the minutes. 
This will go a long way in enhancing the transparency conversation.

3.  I also note that in the February Board minutes that agenda Item No. 5 on 
Committees there are no committee reports for Audit and Remuneration. Also no 
other board committee reports have been presented.
Question:- why are there no reports on the Audit and Remuneration reports 
committees? Is this an oversight or were they simply not ready? Can the Board 
consider making the other committee reports available to the community?

4. It is now also standard for organizations to publish a Sustainability 
Report. Most public for profit companies in Kenya now publish a sustainability 
report. This is even more critical in an Organisation like Afrinic. To give us 
a sample of what this may look like please see Safaricom's 2016 Sustainability 
Report below:-

https://www.safaricom.co.ke/images/Downloads/Resources_Downloads/sustainabilityreport_2016.pdf

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113


Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a 
habit."  ~ Aristotle


Sent from my iPad

On 5 Jun 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mark Elkins 
> wrote:


I agree with you Ali. When Andrew first campaigned to be a Board member, one of 
his goals was increased transparency. I believe that he has helped, with the 
rest of the Board, achieve this. Transparency though is an ongoing process and 
its a pity that Andrew was not re-elected to continue assisting in that process.

Regarding Andrews points:

a) Travel in Africa is not cheap. Rather than just a single line for travel, 
I'd like to see it a bit more broken up though, categorised something like;
 i) Training sessions 10, people 20, cost $10,000
 ii) Meetings 2, people 40, cost $20,000
 iii) Board Travel 8, trips 32, cost $20,000

(or something like that)

b - d) Again, I'd like to see a bit more break down, especially in the case of 
unaudited organisations. On d), the ASO/NRO fees are proportionally paid by 
RIRs. AfriNIC does pay the lowest proportion.

e) I think the moratorium on Business class travel should be maintained, but 
have the option to upgrade their flights at their expense. When flying for 
AfriNIC, I was given a Priority Pass card. That privilege should stay to give 
people access to lounges.  I'm happy the CEO flies business (at his 
discretion). If it was a long flight (ARIN, USA) and overnight and that Board 
member is the only AfriNIC representative and was presenting the "AfriNIC" 
slides, let them fly business. I did that once (but travelled economy).

On 05/06/2017 08:21, Ali Hussein wrote:
Andrew

You raise pertinent and important issues.

The rule of thumb for any public organization is that Transparency trumps (no 
pun intended) everything else.

If I were asked and was a member of the Board, I'd advocate for FULL disclosure 
on financial and operational matters. How money was spent, how much, what was 
the impact, who received it etc. That in my humble opinion is the best policy. 
Let us err on the side of too much information as opposed to too little 
information.

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113


Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a 
habit."  ~ Aristotle


Sent from my iPad

On 5 Jun 2017, at 8:42 AM, Andrew Alston 
> wrote:

Hi All,

So – I want to open a bit of a discussion about transparency, specifically, 
financial transparency.

In order to get this started – let me ask a few questions of all of you –

While we 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Removal of a director

[Badru Ntege]

Boubaker

I can surmise it in one word “hogwash”

Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Dec 2017, at 18:18, Sander Steffann 
> wrote:

Hi Boubakar,

Can someone summarize this for us? I anticipate that it will be very much 
appreciated.

Sure! In fact, Andrew already anticipated most of that in his email:

The summary though is as follows:

– YES the members can remove a director – the process would be as follows:

   • Utilizing clause 7.6.viii of the bylaws invoke an SGMM – for the purposes 
of passing a special resolution to amend the bylaws to allow the community to 
remove a director – and please note – that special resolution could set the 
required voting percentage to remove said director at whatever they liked – 
there is now low watermark – it is subject to whatever is in the constitution 
(as per section 138.2 of the companies act)
   • Once (a) was completed – call a second SGMM –  for the express purpose of 
the removal of one or more directors – send out the notice of said meeting with 
the required 14 day notice period - and then pass a resolution as permitted by 
the process performed in (a)

Many of the details depend on whether legally Resource Members are seen as 
shareholders of Afrinic, or if only the 9 Registered Members (= the board) are 
considered as such. It is a question that I honestly have no answer to, and 
although Andrew expressed his opinion, he does note that he is not a lawyer and 
would like independent legal counsel on the matter.

Cheers,
Sander


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Enquiries/clarification

[Badru Ntege]

Members

This thread seems to have totally been ignored by Board.

Could it be that it was not sent to members ??

I would suggest we get an acknowledgement from Board or CEO.

If the initiator of the thread was responded to and questions resolved letting 
us know will also help.

Regards



 
On 10/11/17, 4:38 AM, "Ali Hussein"  wrote:

Owen

I'd agree with you on the issue of transparency. I would request the following 
so that this doesn't look like a witch hunt.

Depending on how the Corporate Charter says that members then move a 
substantive motion during the next AGM to discuss issues of transparency, 
Corporate Governance and what the Board can and cannot share.


Ali Hussein

Principal

Hussein & Associates

 

Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim



13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,

Chiromo Road, Westlands,

Nairobi, Kenya.

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine 
and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that 
I work with.

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 1:50 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
I think, perhaps, Andrew believes that there are real problems facing AfriNIC 
and the AfriNIC community and, rather than accusing him of a witch hunt, I 
suspect he is asking for increased transparency and information on behalf of 
the community in the interests of making those problems more visible in the 
hopes they can be addressed before festering into something much worse. I 
applaud his efforts in this area.

Remember, as a board member and now as a former board member, he is bound by 
NDA not to publicly discuss privileged information he knows from his time on 
the board. However, that does not preclude him from asking questions as a 
member of the community if he feels that some fraction of that information 
should be made available to the community rather than being held in privilege.

I believe that in general, an organization like an RIR which is managing 
resources on behalf of a community and serving as that community’s 
representative in various external fora (ICANN, IGF, etc.) should be as 
transparent in all of its processes and dealings as possible. This means, IMHO, 
that unless there is a legitimate need for confidentiality (legal strategies in 
active litigation, staff salaries, personnel matters, etc.), information should 
generally be made available to the community by default.

IMHO, the fact that the board publishes the minutes of board meetings, but not 
those of subcommittees is an unfortunate and inappropriate workaround against 
transparency and I encourage the board to rectify this situation forthwith.

Owen

On Oct 9, 2017, at 12:40 AM, Timothy Ola Akinfenwa 
 wrote:

Dear Andrew,
While I am not speaking for or on behalf of the Board, I think your assertion 
and position on this matter is rather too harsh and suspicious.

You piled a heap of questions for the Board members forgetting they also have 
lives outside AFRINIC. The chairman reliably informed you of how he has been 
moving around for sponsorship to host the next meeting. I find it absurd that 
all of a sudden you want a lot of questions answered, you want complete 
transparency, you want undivided attention and commitment from Board members, 
asking for this and that from a board you were actually part of less than 6 
months ago? A board you narrowly missed being re-elected into?

For all the good your intention is worth, I think you should change your 
approach to this fact-finding course of yours else someone like me begin to 
think you are only out to witch-hunt the Board. This can't just be mere 
coincidence please. 

My concern is that why didn't you attempt to seek all these clarifications when 
you were part of the Board?

Now you are comparing our Board members to politicians? I find this derogatory 
IMHO and I think your actions if not checked may spell doom for this community.

Cheers 

On Oct 9, 2017 5:34 AM, "Andrew Alston"  wrote:
Unfortunately – it seems we are having in an era of silence these days from our 
elected representatives – and when responses do come – they are extremely 
delayed.

 

I really am curious to see the amount of money spent on travel (in particular 
board travel) in the next release of the financials – because I’m interested if 
there is so little time to answer the community because the board members are 
busy flying around to conferences that we never seen any feedback or reports 
from.

 

I asked on this list before if the board would consent to providing a community 
report for each board trip taken and paid for with our money – that query – 
never got answered either – and I’m not holding my breath.

 

I guess we just have to wait till next year to roll around and speak with the 
ballot – maybe that voice will get heard – though I suspect that 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] How good was Afrinic-27 ?

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Dec 2017, at 23:02, Dr P Nyirenda 
>
I am gravely concerned that it appears that people are being coached to write 
these
messages on this stream ...

But it would be great ... if indeed ... this was so good ...

What is this doing on RPD  ?

Regards, Paulos

Dr Paulo’s

Always the sceptic






Regards.
Ali
Le dim. 3 déc. 2017 à 12:23, Marcus K. G. Adomey 
> a écrit :
Hi Arnauld,

I concur with you. The meeting was well organized, discussions were carried out 
in the
civil manner.

Kudos to the organizers


Marcus




Get Outlook for Android


   From: ALI Hadji Mmadi >
   Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 5:16:00 AM
   To: Arnaud AMELINA
   Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy
   Subject: Re: [rpd] How good was Afrinic-27 ?

   +1 à Arnaud
   Internet and venue were the best.
   Thanks AfriNIC and Nira.
   Ali of Comoros


   2017-12-02 22:38 GMT+01:00 Arnaud AMELINA 
>:
Hi Community,

As a frequent afrinic meetings participant, I found AFRINIC27 to be one the
most productive meetings of the recent years.  Good presentations, cordiale
and respectful interactions with  focus  on issues in meeting rooms and
aside.

I congrats the community, AfriNIC staff, CEO and the Board and hope to see
more of such meetings...

Regards

Arnaud


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report

[Badru Ntege]

Chair

Following my submission yesterday I want to ask the board to rethink the 
current position taken.

We are here because of private information from conversations of the previous 
board chair that were made public.

Regardless on how that information came to light we have to understand the 
information.

It was clear that the board leadership at the time had created a situation 
which undermined the CEO at the time with conversations being shared with 
junior staff



Sent from my iPhone

On 6 May 2018, at 19:58, Abibu Ntahigiye 
> wrote:


The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be 
cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.

It’s hard to reconcile this with actions being taken.




With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board can 
announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:



  *   That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and  
section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.

Agreed but we all knew this.



  *   That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having 
breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.

But he was complicit in behavior unbecoming of a board member since it was 
clear he was part off the conversations.




  *   That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no 
evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.

So the entire information shared to all the community was not true.  That our 
female members of staff were confused about the constant unwelcome advances 
from a former board member ??

Harassment is emotional and does not leave scientific evidence.  These are 
members of staff that have served this organization diligently and we have 
trusted them fully. However the first time they claim harassment we call them 
liars.



The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments that 
were made in resolution 201803.398.

I believe there are more important issues for our organization than ego 
cleansing.  Both former chair and vice were complicit.


With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the Board 
observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour 
on the part of certain staff members.

We are dancing arround the issue again. Are you telling us that we are still 
not sure ???

It is a fact that morale is low.

Board and executive need to get a grip. And stop procrastinating.


The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed 
through necessary processes

Please elaborate lightly on the processes from what i read in your email there 
are no issues.


We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report 
carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on 
the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.

Even non profits have standards to uphold. We cannot continue giving you time 
when you have not clearly defined what you plan to deliver apart from ensuring 
the perpetual survival of a non performing board.

I’m not for full board removal but I’m for the gradual transformation through 
elections.

Help us decide that we need no change moving forward or do we gradually add new 
people that will act on the issues.

We need positive action.








Kind regards



Abibu R. Ntahigiye

Chair, Afrinic Board.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

[Badru Ntege]

Sandar

Most member organizations will have problems and even the best individuals will 
have moments of weakness. AFRINIC is a technical organization with amazingly 
technical staff who do a very good job on a daily basis.

We acknowledge we have some layer 9 problems thus the constiting of a 
governance board.

Yes a number of us will point out weaknesses and generally we very rarely 
celebrate the good work as we take it as business as usual.

I want to ask the doom sayers that the organization is not at risk.  We point 
out problems to continue and sustain our growth.  It’s the whole basis of 
bottom up that makes us wash our dirty laundry in public.

AFRINIC is strong and will go through the current hard times and emerge a 
strong organization we have come too far.

The community is closer together than ever before so rest assured we will 
continue building our organization.

Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 9 May 2018, at 06:54, Sander Steffann 
> wrote:

Hello community,

I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world 
beyond our community: 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/

It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom 
up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic 
must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable 
and fair organisation with broad support from its members.

Cheers,
Sander

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

[Badru Ntege]

Members

Can i ask we close this thread.  Since it has very little substance people end 
up going personal and this is not the time for us to be personal.

Lets rally behind AfriNIC right now and fix our own issues as we always do.


Lets focus on our agenda this week with policy and our AGMM tomorrow.

Thanking all in advance.

regards



From: Andrew Alston [andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 3:03 PM
To: Sami Salih
Cc: community-discuss
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Sami,

Are you now implying that I am some how less African than you? Despite being 
raised in Africa, lived in Africa all my life and under African skies will I 
die?

Your message implies that I am somehow not “A real African” – please can you 
clarify this?

Andrew


From: Sami Salih [mailto:s...@tpra.gov.sd]
Sent: 09 May 2018 14:56
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: Alan Barrett ; Marcus K. G. Adomey 
; community-discuss 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Take it easy Mr. Alston
In some African culture, satan is used as an adjective to describe some 
behavior, in is some cases it even has positive meaning, but you need to be 
real African to got the meaning.
please try to respect the diversity of the Africans, and don't always refer the 
the meanings used outside out continent.


From: "Andrew Alston" 
>
To: "Alan Barrett" >, 
"Marcus K. G. Adomey" >
Cc: "community-discuss" 
>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 2:42:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

I’m sorry Alan,

But I am nothing short of appalled that you can equate the sharing of what is 
VALID concern to this community and the RIR system – a situation that was 
created by AFRINIC – because no one else created it – with openly calling a 
member SATAN is just – absolutely mind blowing.

Your message seems to imply that sharing legitimate concern and telling AFRINIC 
(referring to not just the corporate entity but the entire body, including this 
community) to get its act into gear is provocation that some how justifies 
calling someone SATAN

This is shocking

Andrew


From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net]
Sent: 09 May 2018 13:39
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey >
Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Dear Marcus, Dear Sander,

In my opinion, the message from Marcus is a personal attack which is against 
the code of conduct. However, I understand that Marcus felt provoked by 
Sander’s message, which I think was unnecessary. (Both messages are copied 
below.)

I ask you both to be more careful of what you post.

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


> On 9 May 2018, at 09:15, Marcus K. G. Adomey 
> > wrote:
>
> Sander,
>
> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess 
> you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. 
> This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy 
> AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your 
> friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because 
> there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us 
> (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. 
> Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> From: Sander Steffann >
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
> To: community-discuss@afrinic.net
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>
> Hello community,
>
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world 
> beyond our community: 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/
>
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the 
> bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. 
> Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a 
> respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its 
> members.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report

[Badru Ntege]

Chevalier

First and foremost I have no wish to fully remove a board that was elected by 
the community.  However as a community member i have a right to comment just 
like you have a right to make a comment on my submissions.

If you fully read and understood my comments you would see that i was focussing 
on the content of chairs letter which was in relation to information that found 
its way onto the public forum.

Issue on leadership is subjective and you are free to conclude whether you have 
good leadership and bad leadership. we open ourselves to feedback through this 
public forum and i will take some of your comments as either advise or comment.

My email and many other emails from many other physical members on this list 
are our free expression of opinion sometimes liked and sometimes disliked.

The issue at hand was very clear and the community myself included shared our 
views, through the bottom up concepts and board acted.

Members of the community myself "in person" have commented on the outcomes and 
fill the outcome did not go far enough to solve a current problem and set a 
good foundation for Afrinic going forward.

We very often take issues of Harassment as allegations and try to apply 
scientific reasoning around it.  It was for this reason that members of current 
and past staff put their careers at risk by providing the evidence.   Which we 
all read so makes me wonder how we find "no evidence of harassment" ??


So yes I'm not happy with the outcome when it comes to the issue of the report 
saying there was no evidence of harassement.

I will not go into detail to respond to some of your comments directed at me as 
this is not about me.  However i will read then and take note to improve where 
i can but continue to share openly as a full member of this community.

Regards

i notice your email "virtual.b...@gmail.com".   would like to meet the real 
person one day.






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Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 08:54, Saul Stein 
> wrote:

>If we actually want to make none of the above a candidate it should be clearly 
>stated in the bye laws.
It is after all the will of the community.

Then let’s put it specifically in the byelaws but as we stand today it is not 
and thus its candidates who win elections and not emotions

We had candidates who won the last election and their win should stand.





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Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 May 2018, at 19:42, Uffa Modey via Community-Discuss 
> wrote:


  *   Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be 
declared winners

None of the above was not a candidate

Exactly and the bye laws are silent in a situation where there was an actual 
candidate. So None of the above was a sentiment we appreciate but there was an 
actual candidate with votes.

If we actually want to make none of the above a candidate it should be clearly 
stated in the bye laws.






Sent from Yahoo Mail on 
Android

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 2:29 AM, Owen DeLong
> wrote:
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Badru Ntege]

Mark

I see we are starting to divide the haves and have nots.  The internet is for 
everyone regardless of how deep your pockets are.

Let’s remember that the big privileged members sell services to the community 
who are the real owners of AfriNIC.

What I see now is these privileged owners wanting to claim ownership and saying 
the poor should not be allowed in.

Africa is not North America  nor is it Europe or Asia.  It’s Africa with its 
unique challenges. Let’s stop these  comparisons.

Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:36, Mark Elkins 
> wrote:



On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:
Noah,

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words

It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better 
elections.

NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been made up of 
any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.

AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves 
facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no 
candidate is elected.

Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. 
This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Regarding Money and Meetings.

I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC meetings 
are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of (say) US$100 in 
order to acquire the badge. However, I believe Members (Registered, Associative 
and Resource alike) should be provided with free tickets (up to two for 
Resource organisations, otherwise one voucher per Registered or Associated) at 
the time of filling in their advanced registration. Sponsors should also get up 
to two vouchers. Registered speakers (and staff) should also get a voucher. If 
you Register at the event or don't have a voucher - you pay the $100.

At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that arrived 
in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who disappeared after 
lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed the free-loaders. This would 
have saved quite a bit.

This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we thought we could 
manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?

Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and who saw 
this happening)



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah > wrote:



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts 
> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none 
of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be 
wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members 
of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah


--
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
m...@posix.co.za   Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: 
+27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za


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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Badru Ntege]

Andrew

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:55, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Actually Badru – it’s not.
Snip

And in total – the travel expenses of AFRINIC racked up 10.7% of the total 
expenses – and anyone who knows anything about business should know – 
percentages like this – are not insignificant numbers.


Anyone who really understands the job to be done by AFRINIC would not be giving 
it a business benchmark and would understand the level of outreach needed in 
our region to fulfill our objectives to the Africa region community.

It’s user community first then business. If that does not work for some players 
then they should not be in the internet business. It has always been about the 
users and will continue that way.

Badru

Andrew



From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com]
Sent: 18 May 2018 12:41
To: Ben Roberts 
<ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com>>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
<community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>; AfriNIC 
Discuss <members-disc...@afrinic.net<mailto:members-disc...@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western 
Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections


Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts 
<ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Noah,


Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. 
This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.
Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at the 
financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure 
misinformation.

Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a fraction of 
someone’s salary.

Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you need 
more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also to the 
Business.




Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <n...@neo.co.tz<mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>> wrote:


On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts 
<ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none 
of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be 
wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members 
of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts 
> wrote:

Noah,


Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. 
This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at the 
financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure 
misinformation.

Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a fraction of 
someone’s salary.

Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you need 
more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also to the 
Business.



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah > wrote:



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts 
> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none 
of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be 
wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members 
of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Badru Ntege]

Andrew


Let’s not abuse the word “community “ there are 92 members from South Africa 
mostly which if I remember rightly you had influence on 65 members and I think 
you personally controlled 18 or was it 13 votes out of a membership of over 
1500 members.

That does not tell me community.

It smells like something else.

Using technicalities to achieve some as yet unclear objective.




Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 13:42, Andrew Alston 
> wrote:

Oh Noah,

That’s not at all the case – this is a case of – why would an individual want 
to spend years on the board when boards are dominated by majority vote – and if 
you are in the minority have your hands tied and are unable to do a damn thing.

Why would members want to sit on a board that has – in direct conflict of 
interest – refused to subject themselves to a vote of no confidence by the 
community – that has refused any semblance of transparency – that dodged 
questions about financials being asked against the Q3 report saying they were 
only discussing the AFS – while knowing the AFS does not contain the breakdowns 
they were being questioned on (which by the way are not in the Q4 report) – 
that has publicly stated that they are not bound by the Mauritian code of 
corporate governance because, since it’s not a legal requirement, its optional.

Why would members want to sit on a board that has lost the faith of the 
community, when the community has demonstrated (loudly and clearly during the 
last vote) that they view what is happening as abhorrent – that my friend – 
doesn’t exactly add to your CV – in fact it’s the equivalent of putting a big 
black mark on your CV.

Until this board starts operating transparently, within the bounds of corporate 
governance, and acting in a manner that is consistent with accountability to 
members with an implicit acknowledgement that the members fund, and own this 
organisation – you will continue to have problems finding decent board 
candidates.

That is my view on this

Andrew


From: Noah [mailto:n...@neo.co.tz]
Sent: 18 May 2018 13:31
To: Ben Roberts 
>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
>; AfriNIC 
Discuss >
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western 
Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections



On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ben Roberts 
> wrote:
Noah,

The Nomcom are on a tough gig as Mark says. It maybe wasn’t their fault not to 
get more candidates.

Nomcom work is only tough, if a certain segment of the membership decides not 
to support a certain candidate which is their right but then goes on to affect 
other qualified candidates.

I think every region should elect their own candidate and when on the board, 
they serve based on their fiduciary duties.


I know quite a few very qualified and good and reputable candidates who would 
love to stand and give leadership to Afrinic.


And who are these?


But those people don’t want to touch it given the state Afrinic is in right now.

They dont deserve to be. You can not claim to want to be part of the solution 
only when there are no challenges.



Kind regards.

Ben.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC legal was ( [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections)

[Badru Ntege]

Members

 

Many things went wrong in Dakar and Many more went very well.   

 

As disturbing as it is I urge we look forward, learn from the history as 
opposed to becoming captives of our past.   

 

 Some of the wrongs are people related which calls for some kind of introspect 
and hopefully  behavior changes for the better.

 

Some of the wrongs are policy and process related which we have full powers to 
fix and should now focus our energies at fixing.

 

The chair shared a fair summary of the current situation and I urge and request 
we close this chapter.

 

Continuing this thread is a zero-sum game which gives legitimacy to those would 
be distractors of AfriNIC.

 

The Election in Dakar was a minor setback in the life of AfriNIC.  

 

Members will come and go, elections will come and go, the institution that is 
AfriNIC will be here to serve many more generations to come.

 

Regards

 

Badru

From: "Marcus K. G. Adomey" 
Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 12:41 AM
To: Andrew Alston , DANIEL NANGHAKA 
, Ashok 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC , AfriNIC 
Discuss 
Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC legal was ( [members-discuss] Faulty 
result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections)

 

Dear Legal Counsel,

Second  opinion is always good when clearing disputes and to show confidence in 
a system. You playing judge and party  is awkward. All the disputed issues are 
from actions and decisions  supervised  by you. it is more appropriate  for you 
to recommend that they are resolved  otherwise.

We expect from  AFRINIC  legal counsel  to make sure, processes, guidelines are 
unambiguous, strictly followed and the appropriate  dispute resolution 
mechanisms are in place  and tell the board the right thing to do  in case of 
dispute.

By the way, how often does AFRINIC  change its legal counsel?

Thanks


Marcus


 

From: Ashok 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:53:36 AM
To: Andrew Alston; DANIEL NANGHAKA; Marcus K. G. Adomey
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC Discuss
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western 
Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections 

 

Dear All,
I am the legal adviser of the company AFRINIC Ltd. Hence for me to act in one 
way or the other
I need to get instructions from the company.As presently advised I have not 
received any instructions 
to seize the court for adjudicating on the matter.
 For the record,I have already communicated my views to the community on this 
matter ( vide my mail dated 17.05.2018).If any party wishes to challenge these 
views, they are free
to take same to court. Obviously it cannot be me.
Regards
Legal Counsel-AFRINIC.

On 08/06/2018 13:30, Andrew Alston wrote:

The answer to that is simple,

 

For something to be sorted in a court of law – someone has to take it to court. 

 

Since the people who members of this community claim were disenfranchised by 
the vote have not taken it to court – and since there are many – who include 
the AFRINIC legal council based on his previous statements, who believe that 
the correct actions were taken – how is it going to be sorted in a court?

 

If someone wishes to approach the Mauritian courts to adjudicate this – let 
them do so – but that requires someone willing to spend the money and resources 
to do that – and right now – I see a lot of people whining – but I don’t see 
anyone willing to dedicate the resources to doing that – and for AFRINIC to 
approach the court – when they have already stated clearly how they view the 
situation – would be equivalent to litigating against themselves.  I hardly see 
that happening

 

Andrew

 

 

From: DANIEL NANGHAKA [mailto:dndann...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 08 June 2018 12:16
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; AfriNIC 
Discuss 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western 
Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

 

Why can't this issue be sorted in court?

Don't we have a legal counsel?

 

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 11:36 AM Marcus K. G. Adomey  wrote:

Dear CEO and Legal Counsel,

 

 

I wrote asking for some clarification which should come from your offices. Up 
to now I have not received any response. I would be most grateful if you could 
spare some few minutes from your heavy schedule to do justice to my questions? 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Marcus

 

From: Marcus K. G. Adomey 
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 10:32:18 AM
To: m...@posix.co.za; General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC Discuss; Ornella 
GANKPA
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western 
Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections 

 

Hello,

Thanks Ornella and others who has been actively participating in this 
discussion to help clear this issue once for good.

Can someone explains to me why  “none of the above”  votes were not counted for 
 2017 elections  as it  was done for election 2018 ?

https://www.afrinic.net/fr/news/2139-results-of-afrinic-agmm-election  - 2017

Re: [Community-Discuss] Filling Board Casual vacancies: Call for Public Comments

[Badru Ntege]

Hi 

 

it’s reassuring that we got a good and extensive list of candidates to pick 
from.  I wish all the best of luck and I’m sure the board will make the right 
choices.

 

Looking forward to moving positively ahead of the challenges of the past and 
continuing on the journey of building our organization to serve the wider 
community.

 

Regards

 

Badru

From: Bope Christian 
Date: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 11:59 AM
To: 
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Filling Board Casual vacancies: Call for Public 
Comments

 

 

[version français ci-dessous]

 

Dear AFRINIC members and community,

 

The AFRINIC Board has decided on a process for filling the vacant seats in the 
Board of Directors.  The process is published at 
.

 

20 expressions of interest have been received, but not all of the interested 
persons have confirmed their consent for publication of their CV and other 
information.  Information about those who have consented is published at 
.  Information about the remaining persons will be 
added if they consent.

 

The Board invites comments on their suitability for appointment as Directors of 
AFRINIC, via the web form at  .  

 

Comments should be submitted no later than 10 July 2018, 12: 00 UTC.

 

 

Best Regards,

Christian D. Bope, PhD

Chairman, AFRINIC Board

 

. . .

 

[français]

 

Chers membres et communauté d'AFRINIC,  

 

Le Conseil d'administration d'AFRINIC a décidé d'un processus pour pourvoir les 
sièges vacants au sein du Conseil d'administration. Le processus est publié à 
l'adresse 


 

20 manifestations d'intérêt ont été reçues, mais toutes les personnes 
intéressées n'ont pas confirmé leur consentement à la publication de leur CV et 
d'autres informations. Les informations sur ceux qui ont consenti sont publiées 
sur . Des informations sur les personnes restantes 
seront ajoutées si elles y consentent.

 

Le Conseil sollicite des commentaires sur leur aptitude à être nommé Directeur 
d'AFRINIC, via le formulaire en ligne à l'adresse  .

 

 Les commentaires doivent être soumis au plus tard le 10 Juillet 2018, 12: 00 
UTC.

 

Cordialement,

Christian D. Bope, PhD

Président du Conseil d’Administration d’AFRINIC

 

 

 

 


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Complaint from staff member

[Badru Ntege]

Governance committee and COE could not nomcom

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Mar 2018, at 20:51, Ali Hussein 
<a...@hussein.me.ke<mailto:a...@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:

Mike

I completely agree.

On the other hand there’s the wider public. This must be managed prudently, 
wisely and with urgency. In cases like this there are clear guidelines and best 
practices to follow. Some suggestions below:-

1. Issue a press release urgently stating the facts and assuring the accuser(s) 
and the public at large that action is being taken and to urge patience.

2. Quickly (in the next two days max) constitute an internal team (NomComm?) 
that will have the mandate to appoint an independent third party to handle the 
issue.

3. A clear TOR and timeline for the investigating team.

4. Findings to be made public and recommended action.

This or a variation of this could work well to appease the community and other 
stakeholders.

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113


Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a 
habit."  ~ Aristotle


Sent from my iPad

On 13 Mar 2018, at 8:38 PM, Mike Silber 
<silber.m...@gmail.com<mailto:silber.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Colleagues

As indicated, these are serious allegations.

I would encourage the community to not leap to conclusions prematurely.

If you have lost your faith in the board then vote for different candidates at 
the next election.

I have not lost my trust in the board, but will need to be assured soon that a 
credible process is being followed.

We have a governance committee, we have a legal advisor, we have several board 
members who are untainted by the allegations.

Let the board propose a process and we can comment (or let the board approach 
the community or parts of the community for input prior to their proposal).

When I say soon, I would suggest a few days for reflection is appropriate and I 
would suggest that end of day Friday (or first thing on Monday morning) would 
be reasonable for us to expect a detailed response on next steps.

Obviously sooner would be appreciated.

Mike


On 13 Mar 2018, at 13:21, DANIEL NANGHAKA 
<dndann...@gmail.com<mailto:dndann...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There is loss of trust in the board. This is the point where a critical review 
of AFRINIC mandate must be done.

I think we need to clean up our house and not taking side clean our board.

On Tuesday, March 13, 2018, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:
Thanks

I still think at this stage until board pronounced itself.  Even CEO should 
wait for board.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Mar 2018, at 20:03, Alan Barrett 
> <alan.barr...@afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net>> wrote:
>
> Dear Badru,
>
> My response was from me as CEO.
>
> Alan Barrett
>

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Nanghaka Daniel K.
Executive Director - ILICIT Africa / Chair - FOSSFA / Community Lead - ISOC 
Uganda Chapter / Geo4Africa Lead / Organising Team - FOSS4G2018
Mobile +256 772 898298 (Uganda)
Skype: daniel.nanghaka

- "Working for Africa" 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] No Update from AFRINIC HR and Administration since 2015

[Badru Ntege]

@Lucky

Thanks for the re-assurance.  As the matter has become public can we please 
escalate as quick closure will help us.  

Let’s assume the board will give us an official position on any actions in the 
next few days as has been suggested by others in this thread. 

We are sure that we still have some Good people in the board so waiting for the 
leadership the community vested in the nine members. 

Regards 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Mar 2018, at 22:07, Lucky Masilela  wrote:
> 
> Dear Kawashe, AFRINIC Community
> 
> Kindly note that the board is in receipt of a similar document (complaint) 
> from Ms V. Thuron and will look into this matter accordingly.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Lucky Masilela
> 
> Chairperson REMCO on behalf of the board
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: kaweshe sichali 
> >
> Date: Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 7:50 AM
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] No Update from AFRINIC HR and Administration 
> since 2015
> To: >
> 
> 
> Damola and wide community,
> 
> a lot of mess in the organization, time for the community and members too be 
> concerned. document attached will show the community the cabal who seat on 
> the afrinic board and are failing and interfering in the organization. sex 
> harassment, threats and embarrassments of staff and witchhunt by members of 
> board. some board member make advanced to women staff. sunday folayani, 
> hyttam, and patrice and entire cabal must resign. ceo overtaken by cabal and 
> cant make own decisions as cabal from board run organisation. even some board 
> members from nigeria are now contracted to do work afrinic projects conflict 
> of interest.
> 
> investigation must be open. read attached document. afrinic chairman  and 
> member of his cabal must resign immediately. they are a shame and will harass 
> and frustrate female employees.
> 
> stay tuned
> kaweshe
> 
> PS: dont bother to find who is kaweshe.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:35 PM, damola olajide 
> > wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have read the report on 
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/stories/Library/corp/annual-report-2016.pdf.
> There is neither the mentioning of turnover nor the reasons for departures of 
> staffs in the report.
> For example AFRINIC is current recruiting a PR and Marketing Manager as 
> advertised on https://www.afrinic.net/en/about/career.
> If Mr Yavisht Toolseeya gave plausible and complete explanations in his 
> report, today this job opening would be justifiable.
> 
> regards
> --
> Damola Olajide
> Network & Security Engineer
> Lagos, Nigeria
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 8:40 PM, damola olajide 
> > wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> According to 
> https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/images/AF-23-Slides/3-Dec-15/Yavitsh.pdf,
>  there have been a fall in the turnover from 2010 to 2015 with a spike in 
> 2014.
> 
> The reason for departures are for better opportunities according to page 11 
> of the PDF.
> 
> I searched for the recent Afrinic meeting reports on the Afrinic website 
> since days and noticed that there is no report as such as from 2016 till 
> today.
> 
> From the Afrinic website, we can see that the HR and Administration 
> department has grown, but it is hard to make an assessment of its efficiency 
> as there are no reports available recently.
> 
> Shall the HR department (Mr Yavisht Toolseeya) submit a report for 2018 on 
> the next Afrinic meeting, the Afrinic community will be able to make a 
> diligent assessment of the situation !
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Damola Olajide
> Network & Security Engineer
> Lagos, Nigeria
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Complaint from staff member

[Badru Ntege]

Allan

With all due respect we are pained by the allegations.  They are pointed at the 
board more than at the organisation so I would rather the board handles this 
response. 

We need to distance our organization at this stage so let’s please leave 
response to board. 

Unless you Are responding as board due to your dual role but in this instance I 
would advise please wear the staff hat. 

Regards 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Mar 2018, at 19:33, Alan Barrett  wrote:
> 
> Dear AFRINIC community,
> 
> AFRINIC has received a complaint containing several allegations.  It is a 
> matter of concern, which will be investigated forthwith.  A further 
> communication will be addressed to the community in due course.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alan Barrett
> CEO, AFRINIC
> 
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Complaint from staff member

[Badru Ntege]

@Ali

This is not a minor issue and thus the reason we are all waiting for our 
elected Board.

Please note elected board,  CEO needs to be protected at this moment.

If chair cannot comment then one o our other elected board should. That’s what 
accountability is about.

Our organization must be protected above any individuals.

Deep down I hope these are just allegations.

Maybe governance committee should comment.

But like others have mentioned we cannot wait. We need a clear way forward.

Regards



Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Mar 2018, at 20:38, Ali Hussein 
<a...@hussein.me.ke<mailto:a...@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:

@Badru

Allan is correct in responding. The CEO takes the lead on such issues. The 
Board can also respond. However I’d like to caution all of us not cast 
aspersions right now. This is a serious matter that impugns on the 
organization. The Board is a representation of the community in the 
organization. They have a fiduciary responsibility to uphold the organization’s 
mandate and good name.

At this point there is a huge risk that needs to really be managed well.

Regards

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113


Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a 
habit."  ~ Aristotle


Sent from my iPad

On 13 Mar 2018, at 8:21 PM, DANIEL NANGHAKA 
<dndann...@gmail.com<mailto:dndann...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There is loss of trust in the board. This is the point where a critical review 
of AFRINIC mandate must be done.

I think we need to clean up our house and not taking side clean our board.

On Tuesday, March 13, 2018, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:
Thanks

I still think at this stage until board pronounced itself.  Even CEO should 
wait for board.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Mar 2018, at 20:03, Alan Barrett 
> <alan.barr...@afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net>> wrote:
>
> Dear Badru,
>
> My response was from me as CEO.
>
> Alan Barrett
>

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Executive Director - ILICIT Africa / Chair - FOSSFA / Community Lead - ISOC 
Uganda Chapter / Geo4Africa Lead / Organising Team - FOSS4G2018
Mobile +256 772 898298 (Uganda)
Skype: daniel.nanghaka

- "Working for Africa" 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Complaint from staff member

[Badru Ntege]

@Owen

in the world of subjectivity the content can be read in any way its a case of 
the Glass half full or Half empty.  However the fact the Chair shared this 
content with a junior member of staff who reports to the CEO needs no 
investigation as there's no way the content would exist to be shared here.  if 
i was to use your terminology at that part "we are actually separating 
electrons and producing plasmas".

We all enjoy the world of "Paralysis through Analysis"  There are some clearly 
glaring wrongs in this situation where if the individuals on the board really 
cared for the office they hold, should step aside until they are exonerated.

The Gender issues  from a staff member in the real world  would mean that the 
staff member is also suspended immediately until the issue is investigated.

 There is no room for that kind of language in AfrNIC period.
We need to show zero tolerance on some issues while being fare.

Taking the current situation is not being fare to both parties.  We have an 
apparently aggrieved long serving member of staff and we have an accused long 
serving senior member of staff.   Until this is concluded both should be 
treated equally.

For Board with all due respect i want to see more leadership.  We have nine 
board members and one of them should have taken the helm until the 
investigations are concluded.  That's good governance.

regards



From: Owen DeLong [o...@delong.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:54 AM
To: DANIEL NANGHAKA
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Complaint from staff member

This is not true in the real world and it is not true in this case.

You absolutely can have low-grade oxidation of hydrocarbons resulting in smoke 
without reaching the flashpoint temperature whereupon emitted gasses and nearby 
gasses are excited to such an extent as to start separating electrons and 
producing plasmas. Only at such high temperatures (and with an adequate supply 
of volatile gasses and oxygen) does one get fire.

Otherwise, you can make quite a bit of smoke without making fire.

In this case, whether the actual allegations have merit or not remains 
completely unknown if we base it only on what has been posted publicly on this 
list. If there is other evidence elsewhere, I don’t have access.

The postings appear to be an attempt by certain board members to assist the 
president in addressing an HR issue with the individual in question. There’s 
nothing in what was posted to support an accusation of bullying, harassment, or 
any form of sexual impropriety.

Frankly, I’m not even sure that the supposed evidence presented rises to the 
level of smoke, but I will let Badru defend his declaration there.

Nonetheless, since there is an allegation, the allegation should be seriously 
investigated and dealt with appropriately.

I have my own opinion of the voracity of the allegation in question, but I will 
keep that to myself until we see the results of the investigation.

Owen

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:06 , DANIEL NANGHAKA 
<dndann...@gmail.com<mailto:dndann...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There cannot be smoke without fire.
[https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aZG5kYW5uYW5nQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ%3D%3D=zerocontent=58e9d020-d5fd-4da9-8d80-3e191f12c131]ᐧ

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Ali Hussein 
<a...@hussein.me.ke<mailto:a...@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:
@Badru

I agree it’s not a small matter. However, what the CEO did is correct. He 
issued a statement. The Board is at the moment conflicted so may not be fair to 
expect them to respond immediately.  Not sure if the Board has a Governance 
Committee within it. If so then the Chairperson of that Committee must issue a 
statement.

There are clear procedures to follow in a well defined Corporate Governance 
environment.

Regards

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113<tel:+254%20713%20601113>

Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a 
habit."  ~ Aristotle


Sent from my iPad

On 13 Mar 2018, at 8:59 PM, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:

@Ali

This is not a minor issue and thus the reason we are all waiting for our 
elected Board.

Please note elected board,  CEO needs to be protected at this moment.

If chair cannot comment then one o our other elected board should. That’s what 
accountability is about.

Our organization must be protected above any individuals.

Deep down I hope these are just allegations.

Maybe governance committee should comment.

But like others have mentioned we cannot wait. We need a clear way forward.

Regards



Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Mar 2018, at 20:38, Ali Hussein 
<a...@hussein.me.ke<mailto:a...@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:

@Badru

Allan is correct in respondi

Re: [Community-Discuss] Complaint from staff member

[Badru Ntege]

@owen

Yes what we have is allegations and insinuations.  But they are pretty grave 
allegations that need to be treated delicately.  none of us can comment on the 
content but we are asking for the head of the house to assure us that the smoke 
is being investigated.

Prolonged silence is bad since it allows our minds to wonder. We need our 
leaders to come out and take leadership of this issue.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Mar 2018, at 20:07, Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com<mailto:o...@delong.com>> 
wrote:

While I agree such allegations must be taken seriously and a proper 
investigation should be conducted, I must say that the texts and other data in 
the original email contain nothing to substantiate the allegations, but rather 
appear to be an entirely professional attempt to address a legitimate HR issue.

I’m not saying this is necessarily the case. There may be evidence elsewhere. 
But what was delivered to the community is not evidence and should not be 
treated as such.

Owen


On Mar 13, 2018, at 10:31, Evelyn Namara 
<evelyng...@gmail.com<mailto:evelyng...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear all,

As a woman, it was very uncomfortable reading the allegations especially since 
among allegations are sexual harassment allegations. In light of what is 
happening worldwide on the same topic, we need to speak out boldly against this.

Here's hoping that the right structures are in place to ensure women at the 
AfriNIC workplace are protected.

That being said; I wait patiently to read the full report on the investigations.

Kind Regards,



On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 8:21 PM, DANIEL NANGHAKA 
<dndann...@gmail.com<mailto:dndann...@gmail.com>> wrote:
There is loss of trust in the board. This is the point where a critical review 
of AFRINIC mandate must be done.

I think we need to clean up our house and not taking side clean our board.


On Tuesday, March 13, 2018, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:
Thanks

I still think at this stage until board pronounced itself.  Even CEO should 
wait for board.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Mar 2018, at 20:03, Alan Barrett 
> <alan.barr...@afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net>> wrote:
>
> Dear Badru,
>
> My response was from me as CEO.
>
> Alan Barrett
>

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--

Regards
Nanghaka Daniel K.
Executive Director - ILICIT Africa / Chair - FOSSFA / Community Lead - ISOC 
Uganda Chapter / Geo4Africa Lead / Organising Team - FOSS4G2018
Mobile +256 772 898298<tel:+256%20772%20898298> (Uganda)
Skype: daniel.nanghaka

- "Working for Africa" 
-




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Phone: +256754440893
Skype: enamara
Twitter: enamara


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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

[Badru Ntege]

Ashok 

Thanks for this clarification


On 4/12/18, 12:59 PM, "Ashok"  wrote:

Dear All,
Mauritius has signed the the European Convention for Protection of 
Individuals with regard to Automatic Processing of Personal Data 
(commonly known as Convention 108), to which  it acceded to on 17 June 
2016 at Strasbourg, France.
On a side note, Convention 108 is the first and only international 
legally binding instrument dealing explicitly with data protection and 
currently has 51 signatories including 47 Council of Europe Member 
States as well as Uruguay until Mauritius became the 49th State Party 
and the first African country. The treaty entered into force on 1 
October 2016 in Mauritius. [ Extract from Data Protection Office Document].
This is how GDPR applies to Mauritius and since then The Data Protection 
Act 2017 has incorporated same in our local law.
Ashok.,

On 11/04/2018 20:47, S Moonesamy wrote:
> Hi Owen,
> At 09:05 AM 11-04-2018, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> Since AfriNIC isn't actually present in either location, it's up to 
>> the government of Mauritius whether it would do any of the following:
>> 1.Allow suit based on GDPR violation to be brought in an MU court.
>> 2.Extradite AfriNIC for suit in a court of competent jurisdiction in 
>> one of those countries.
>
> I doubt that (1) is how the data protection law works in Mauritius.
>
>> However, given the new information from Kirs that MU signed a safe 
>> harbor treaty with EU subjecting MU to EU ICO->GDPR, then yes, 
>> everyone and all organizations in MU are subject to GDPR by virtue of 
>> the treaty requiring MU to do one of the two things above in such a 
>> case.
>
> I gather that you are referring to the safe harbor framework [1] 
> between the United States and the European Union.  I doubt that legal 
> entities in Mauritius are subject to the GDPR per se [2] as they are 
> not in the European Union.  Which treaty are you referring to?
>
> Regards,
> S. Moonesamy
>
> 1. 
> 
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/privacy-and-security/u.s.-eu-safe-harbor-framework
> 2. There may be exceptions to this.
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Badru Ntege]

Owen

I like your attempt to get scientific here.  Up until a certain email was 
publicly shared and read by most of us who are responding we had no opinions on 
this issue.

We are all reasonably intelligent to make our own conclusions on the matter at 
hand.

In any part of the world it is not normal nor is it accepted for a board member 
to share the information we saw shared with a junior member of staff which 
definitely undermines the authority of the CEO.

On that count alone ignoring the many other issues one ceases to be fit for 
office.   Apart from in our region where we are now being convinced that we 
need to spend money to prove a simple fact like that.

Even if I ignore all other issues being pointed to the person in question.

We are now in a situation where the likes of you are trying to tell us that we 
need to re-write our basic understanding of right and wrong.

I’m sorry that sickens me.

Yes investigate the other claims but someone admitted to wrong doing and we are 
saying thanks for admitting and for your service but it’s time we move forward 
with new people while you handle your other issues and we wish you well.


Your attempt to read my email in other ways and calling our reaction as “mob 
mentality” is insulting to say the least.

I have said it before and I will say it again here you seem to want us in 
Afrinic to accept things that no other RIR would ever accept.  And that 
continues to puzzle me to this day.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 23 Mar 2018, at 23:52, Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com<mailto:o...@delong.com>> 
wrote:


On Mar 22, 2018, at 21:41 , Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:


One becomes a board member as result of the will of the community through an 
election.  The ultimate owner of AFRINIC is the community.

Technically, this is not quite accurate. One becomes a board member by the 
result of an election by the resource members, not the community. The community 
is a much larger body.

The community is saying it has lost faith in the office bearer investigation or 
not since what the office bearer has admitted to is enough for community to 
feel he is no longer suitable.

Again, this is also not quite true. Some members of the community are saying 
this, but no objective deterministic research has been presented showing that 
this position is held by a majority of the community.

The office bearer also has an allegation which is personal and that needs to be 
investigated since it has far reaching implications to the individuals involved.

At least there is one true statement in your email.

The community is saying we need to move and he steps aside deals with his 
issues without affecting AFRINIC business. I think this is only fare.

Some members of the community are saying this. Other members are calling for a 
rational approach to a valid and fair investigation and due process.

However at the moment we are all being held hostage due to decisions made 
earlier.

This is simply sensationalism which has no legitimate place in the discussion. 
Nobody is being held hostage. I realize that it is popular to use this term as 
rhetoric in AfriNIC discussions, but really, there are no prisoners here. There 
are no hostages. The due process is being followed with reasonable deliberate 
haste.

We need to move

What kind of movement are you seeking? Do you propose that we gather a lynch 
mob and take out all of those who are accused without bothering to investigate 
or establish the true facts of the situation?

I’m sure this would satisfy the more vocal members of the community, but I do 
not think it would shine a positive light on AfriNIC going forward.

I am very happy to see the current leadership attempting to continue with due 
process under the circumstances despite the mob mentality being expressed on 
this and other lists.

Owen






Sent from my iPhone

On 23 Mar 2018, at 07:33, Sunday Olutayo 
<olut...@olutayo.ng<mailto:olut...@olutayo.ng>> wrote:


Why is judgment being pass without investigation and hearing? Why are some 
people eager to be the hangmen without due process? I believe in justice, and 
it can only be obtained or dispersed through due process.

We can not be passing judgment of yet to be proofed allegations. So let follow 
due process, the independent committee should it work.

Regards,
Sunday Olutayo

On Mar 22, 2018 11:39 AM, Noah <n...@neo.co.tz<mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>> wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, 5:57 p.m. Wayne Diamond, 
<wa...@domains.co.za<mailto:wa...@domains.co.za>> wrote:


Some body from the AfriNic board that is NOT implicated in either the 
harassment or breach of NDA needs to take control now and make a decisive 
statement to the community in the very near future (as in 72 hours) in order to 
inform the community of what is being done about each of the issues.

Thanks Wayne

And to be pricise we have below b

Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Mar 2018, at 12:59, Chevalier du Borg 
> wrote:


INNOCENT UNTIL PROVE GUILTY. --- i think that is principle you won't argue

The ultimate judge is the committee that is being set up by board. But that 
does not prevent people to make up their own conclusion based on what they know 
and have read in public.



--
Borg le Chevalier
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Badru Ntege]

We have a  number of issues on the table based on information posted on this 
list that members beleive should have gotten swift action on Tuesday.

I’m not sure about the mud slinging being referred to here.

To most people these are issues key to the organization.  There has also been 
reference to elders else where.   Yes I know the Genesis of this and beleive if 
we do not put appropriate pressure now to the relevant stakeholders  it would 
be a disservice to the organization which is bigger than any one individual.

Nothing new apart from the community outcry emerged before chair did the 
needful.

I Do not understand and I may never understand those who wish members to keep 
silent when we put up the mailing list for them to share their views about 
their organization

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Mar 2018, at 22:51, Ben Roberts 
<ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

I agree with Ali and defer to his legal mind as to why we stop this debate now 
and wait for the investigation

>From my point of view I’m just bored of mud slinging without substantial 
>information in this debate.

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Mar 2018, at 22:12 Wale Adedokun 
<w...@forum.org.ng<mailto:w...@forum.org.ng>> wrote:


+1 @hussein

Especially for the fact that the guys talking here are supposed to be elders in 
this community (ex-board members), the discussion is giving some of us a lot of 
heart ache when you see elders heating up the polity. The question is how did 
we get here as a community? The GC should do the needful asap get to the root 
of this unfortunate and disgraceful situation and let all found guilty be dealt 
with appropriately in the meantime everyone should be at peace and give the 
community some respect.

Wale



Wale Adedokun PhD
Event Coordinator
Nigeria Network Operators Group(ngNOG)
2348037035811
w...@forum.org.ng<mailto:w...@forum.org.ng>


- Ali Hussein <a...@hussein.me.ke<mailto:a...@hussein.me.ke>> wrote:
>
All

I honestly think that this discussion now needs to stop until the committee 
tasked to investigate this issue reports back. My hope and expectations would 
be that:-

1. The committee is publicly announced.
2. Their TORs spelled out for the community.
3. They begin work and articulate the timetable.

I believe Lucky has articulated this well.

Let us give the team space to do their work. What we are currently doing 
continuing to speculate and infer will just impede their work.

Regards


Ali
> Hussein

Principal

AHK & Associates

>
>



Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

>
>

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: 
http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>


13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,

Chiromo Road, Westlands,

Nairobi, Kenya.

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine 
and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that 
I work with.
>
>

>
On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 8:57 PM, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:


>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> > On 17 Mar 2018, at 19:34, Alan Barrett 
> > <alan.barr...@afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net>> wrote:

> >

> >>

> >

> > I reject the idea that anybody should be suspended based on rumour and/or 
> > accusations without due process.

>

>Would not like to debate too much on this.  But if you actually internalize 
>the guidelines of the Mauritian Equal Opportunities Commision guidelines to 
>employers you will see that what we are suggesting is not persecution but best 
>practice.

>

> It allows for due process to happen on a specific issue minimizing and  
> containing the issue.  But also showing that the employer took the issue 
> seriously

>

> I also suggest that the guidelines handbook forms supporting literature for 
> the committee

>

> Regards.

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > ___

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Badru Ntege]

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Mar 2018, at 19:34, Alan Barrett  wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
> I reject the idea that anybody should be suspended based on rumour and/or 
> accusations without due process.

Would not like to debate too much on this.  But if you actually internalize the 
guidelines of the Mauritian Equal Opportunities Commision guidelines to 
employers you will see that what we are suggesting is not persecution but best 
practice. 

It allows for due process to happen on a specific issue minimizing and  
containing the issue.  But also showing that the employer took the issue 
seriously 

I also suggest that the guidelines handbook forms supporting literature for the 
committee 

Regards. 


> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Badru Ntege]

Community

It’s nice that our colleague Andrew finally saw the light but I think my 
decision to release factual information that was being hidden by him and our 
fallen chair was an attempt to stop the rot which has finally claimed the 
author at the time.

A’luta continua as the song goes.  We the community made some mistakes in 
choices to the board. The organization has been hurt but it will heal.

Now I hope the board also handles the member of staff who has disgraced our 
female employee and continues to mistreat our staff.

Let’s never forget that AFRINIC was created out of the will of the community 
for the community as much as bylaws leave community as bystanders while members 
vote.

Ultimately the will of the community is the life of Afrinic.

Right now the community is silent but hurting and we need the board to show 
swift leadership.

I’m glad that chair finally made the decision that should have been made 
earlier.

There’s still work to do let’s please dispense of these issues before the 
upcoming AGMM



Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Mar 2018, at 19:04, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Dear Former Chair,

I am saddened by what I read here, and actually more than a little disturbed.

Firstly – let me state categorically that I agree with waiting for the 
investigation to conclude on the harassment allegations, and you and I find 
alignment on that issue.  However, there is another issue where we strongly 
diverge, and despite the conversations we have had on the matter in the last 
few days – the details of which will remain private – you have chosen to ignore 
what has been stated so clearly.

I draw attention to this part of your email:
I do acknowledge  that I shared a chat (with the best intentions) which should 
have been treated with more caution, no matter how good the intention was.

Sunday – What you did was a blatant violation of the NDA agreement you signed 
as a board member – and yes I realize fully that you can argue what was shared 
in the document that was attached to the allegation was a chat between you and 
two other people and did not stem directly out of a board meeting.  However, 
you were involved in a discussion around AfriNIC business that clearly and 
without equivocation related to your work as chair and related to information 
gained and dealt with in your position as a board member.  You then chose to 
share that information with a third party.

In 2014 – the former board passed the following resolution:

Resolution 201411.211: The Board RESOLVED ; Information discussed within the 
Board should not be disclosed to third parties without Board approval. 
Violation may lead to expulsion from the Board as provided by the Bylaws. 
However, information disclosed by the Board to third parties not under NDA to 
the Board is no longer confidential and is deemed to be in the public domain.

Please note – that does not say formal board meeting – it says within the board 
– and considering the information under discussion in what was shared – it is 
without dispute that that was board sensitive privileged information and that 
discussion can be very much considered information discussed within the board – 
even if it is a subset of the board.

A few months after this resolution was passed – two members of the board, Mr 
Badru Ntege and Mr Paulos Nyirende chose to violate the NDA – and then chose to 
do the honourable thing and resign over the breach of NDA rather than face 
disciplinary action.  I am shocked considering your role in in the authorship 
of that resolution and your full awareness of the subsequent happenings that 
lead to two members of the board resigning – that you now hold yourself to a 
different standard.

I strongly believe that you have done a very good job as chair – and I wish on 
everything that is in me that I did not have to find myself writing this email 
– but the reality is – rules have to be consistent – the application of rules 
has to be consistent – what applies to one must apply to all – anything else 
makes all rules meaningless – and what you are doing now I find to the height 
of hypocrisy and far beneath the man I know you to be.

Please – do what is right – and I strongly believe you know what that is.

Andrew



From: Sunday Folayan [mailto:sfola...@gmail.com]
Sent: 16 March 2018 17:38
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
<community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>; 
members-disc...@afrinic.net<mailto:members-disc...@afrinic.net>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

Dear members and the Community,

Over the last few days, some allegations have been made that are serious
and by very nature threaten to further divide this community and
represent a threat to the AfriNIC organization.

I believe the unity of the community is as important as the sanctity of
the Board, and it is my responsibility

Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Badru Ntege]

Good Morning  Mike

Thanks for “echoing” that you understood the email more than all of us.   In a 
free world, one is free to express his individual views and opinions.

You are also free to assume that you know more about this matter than I may.

However Since you may not know what I do know and nor may I know what 
information you have right now.

It’s only fare that non of us tries to silence each other. It’s a community 
mailing list let’s allow the community to openly express their sentiments.

I hope you do have a wonderful weekend.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Mar 2018, at 03:59, Mike Silber 
<silber.m...@gmail.com<mailto:silber.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Badru

This matter has been referred by the board.

The scope and modalities of the investigation will be discussed this coming 
week and communicated thereafter.

Could I ask that, if you have any direct evidence of potentially inappropriate 
behavior, you should please reveal it in the investigation process.

If however you have no direct evidence and are simply acting as an echo chamber 
for allegations, you should refrain from making unsupported accusations like 
"disgraced our female employee and continues to mistreat our staff".

This indicates prejudice and not what we expect from a senior community member.

Mike

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 at 20:19, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:
Community

It’s nice that our colleague Andrew finally saw the light but I think my 
decision to release factual information that was being hidden by him and our 
fallen chair was an attempt to stop the rot which has finally claimed the 
author at the time.

A’luta continua as the song goes.  We the community made some mistakes in 
choices to the board. The organization has been hurt but it will heal.

Now I hope the board also handles the member of staff who has disgraced our 
female employee and continues to mistreat our staff.

Let’s never forget that AFRINIC was created out of the will of the community 
for the community as much as bylaws leave community as bystanders while members 
vote.

Ultimately the will of the community is the life of Afrinic.

Right now the community is silent but hurting and we need the board to show 
swift leadership.

I’m glad that chair finally made the decision that should have been made 
earlier.

There’s still work to do let’s please dispense of these issues before the 
upcoming AGMM



Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Mar 2018, at 19:04, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Dear Former Chair,

I am saddened by what I read here, and actually more than a little disturbed.

Firstly – let me state categorically that I agree with waiting for the 
investigation to conclude on the harassment allegations, and you and I find 
alignment on that issue.  However, there is another issue where we strongly 
diverge, and despite the conversations we have had on the matter in the last 
few days – the details of which will remain private – you have chosen to ignore 
what has been stated so clearly.

I draw attention to this part of your email:
I do acknowledge  that I shared a chat (with the best intentions) which should 
have been treated with more caution, no matter how good the intention was.

Sunday – What you did was a blatant violation of the NDA agreement you signed 
as a board member – and yes I realize fully that you can argue what was shared 
in the document that was attached to the allegation was a chat between you and 
two other people and did not stem directly out of a board meeting.  However, 
you were involved in a discussion around AfriNIC business that clearly and 
without equivocation related to your work as chair and related to information 
gained and dealt with in your position as a board member.  You then chose to 
share that information with a third party.

In 2014 – the former board passed the following resolution:

Resolution 201411.211: The Board RESOLVED ; Information discussed within the 
Board should not be disclosed to third parties without Board approval. 
Violation may lead to expulsion from the Board as provided by the Bylaws. 
However, information disclosed by the Board to third parties not under NDA to 
the Board is no longer confidential and is deemed to be in the public domain.

Please note – that does not say formal board meeting – it says within the board 
– and considering the information under discussion in what was shared – it is 
without dispute that that was board sensitive privileged information and that 
discussion can be very much considered information discussed within the board – 
even if it is a subset of the board.

A few months after this resolution was passed – two members of the board, Mr 
Badru Ntege and Mr Paulos Nyirende chose to violate the NDA – and then chose to 
do the honourable thing and resign over the breach of ND

Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Badru Ntege]

Kris

With all due respect it took the board three days to do what should have been 
done on Tuesday.

Those three days have done their damage.

And allegation or not in any organization sensitive to Gender issues the person 
who used the language being alleged should have been sent home immediately with 
full pay while issues are resolved.

Any member of the community is free to reiterate this issue since that’s what 
is done everywhere and why not AFRINIC.

Are we saying that we operate under different standards. ??

We trust the board and the relevant committees will do the right thing but 
where we see a glaring omission we are free to share our sentiment.

What is known publicly is enough for community members to comment

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Mar 2018, at 06:37, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:

Good Morning  Mike

Thanks for “echoing” that you understood the email more than all of us.   In a 
free world, one is free to express his individual views and opinions.

You are also free to assume that you know more about this matter than I may.

However Since you may not know what I do know and nor may I know what 
information you have right now.

It’s only fare that non of us tries to silence each other. It’s a community 
mailing list let’s allow the community to openly express their sentiments.

I hope you do have a wonderful weekend.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Mar 2018, at 03:59, Mike Silber 
<silber.m...@gmail.com<mailto:silber.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Badru

This matter has been referred by the board.

The scope and modalities of the investigation will be discussed this coming 
week and communicated thereafter.

Could I ask that, if you have any direct evidence of potentially inappropriate 
behavior, you should please reveal it in the investigation process.

If however you have no direct evidence and are simply acting as an echo chamber 
for allegations, you should refrain from making unsupported accusations like 
"disgraced our female employee and continues to mistreat our staff".

This indicates prejudice and not what we expect from a senior community member.

Mike

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 at 20:19, Badru Ntege 
<badru.nt...@nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:
Community

It’s nice that our colleague Andrew finally saw the light but I think my 
decision to release factual information that was being hidden by him and our 
fallen chair was an attempt to stop the rot which has finally claimed the 
author at the time.

A’luta continua as the song goes.  We the community made some mistakes in 
choices to the board. The organization has been hurt but it will heal.

Now I hope the board also handles the member of staff who has disgraced our 
female employee and continues to mistreat our staff.

Let’s never forget that AFRINIC was created out of the will of the community 
for the community as much as bylaws leave community as bystanders while members 
vote.

Ultimately the will of the community is the life of Afrinic.

Right now the community is silent but hurting and we need the board to show 
swift leadership.

I’m glad that chair finally made the decision that should have been made 
earlier.

There’s still work to do let’s please dispense of these issues before the 
upcoming AGMM



Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Mar 2018, at 19:04, Andrew Alston 
<andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Dear Former Chair,

I am saddened by what I read here, and actually more than a little disturbed.

Firstly – let me state categorically that I agree with waiting for the 
investigation to conclude on the harassment allegations, and you and I find 
alignment on that issue.  However, there is another issue where we strongly 
diverge, and despite the conversations we have had on the matter in the last 
few days – the details of which will remain private – you have chosen to ignore 
what has been stated so clearly.

I draw attention to this part of your email:
I do acknowledge  that I shared a chat (with the best intentions) which should 
have been treated with more caution, no matter how good the intention was.

Sunday – What you did was a blatant violation of the NDA agreement you signed 
as a board member – and yes I realize fully that you can argue what was shared 
in the document that was attached to the allegation was a chat between you and 
two other people and did not stem directly out of a board meeting.  However, 
you were involved in a discussion around AfriNIC business that clearly and 
without equivocation related to your work as chair and related to information 
gained and dealt with in your position as a board member.  You then chose to 
share that information with a third party.

In 2014 – the former board passed the following resolution:

Resolution 201411.211: The Board RESOLVED ; Information discussed 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Badru Ntege]

One becomes a board member as result of the will of the community through an 
election.  The ultimate owner of AFRINIC is the community.

The community is saying it has lost faith in the office bearer investigation or 
not since what the office bearer has admitted to is enough for community to 
feel he is no longer suitable.

The office bearer also has an allegation which is personal and that needs to be 
investigated since it has far reaching implications to the individuals involved.

The community is saying we need to move and he steps aside deals with his 
issues without affecting AFRINIC business. I think this is only fare.

However at the moment we are all being held hostage due to decisions made 
earlier.

We need to move





Sent from my iPhone

On 23 Mar 2018, at 07:33, Sunday Olutayo 
> wrote:


Why is judgment being pass without investigation and hearing? Why are some 
people eager to be the hangmen without due process? I believe in justice, and 
it can only be obtained or dispersed through due process.

We can not be passing judgment of yet to be proofed allegations. So let follow 
due process, the independent committee should it work.

Regards,
Sunday Olutayo

On Mar 22, 2018 11:39 AM, Noah > wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, 5:57 p.m. Wayne Diamond, 
> wrote:


Some body from the AfriNic board that is NOT implicated in either the 
harassment or breach of NDA needs to take control now and make a decisive 
statement to the community in the very near future (as in 72 hours) in order to 
inform the community of what is being done about each of the issues.

Thanks Wayne

And to be pricise we have below board members who seem to lack cohesion but i 
could be wrong.

Mr.Masilela Lucky
Mr.Abibu Ntagihiye
Mr.Bope Christian
Mr.Ilunga Serge
Mr.Ojedeji Seun
Mr.Subramanian Moonesamy
Mr.Alan Barrett (ex-officio)


The reputation of AfriNic and the community cannot wait until the end of April 
for an investigation to start.

+++1



To the board that are not involved in either, get your act together quickly or 
step down for a new interim board to be appointed in order to resolve this but 
this cannot continue any longer in this manner.

+++1

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

[Badru Ntege]

 

 

 

From: Chevalier du Borg 
Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 1:42 PM
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

 



 

 

As to everything having been review and ok by AFRINIC, please note that every 
one of the multinational company that rape this continent usually obey the 
LETTER of the law.

 

 

Multinationals fronted by members hide behind the law to continue the rape and 
pilage of our resources including the number resources.  We have seen the law 
used so many times to destroy what others have painfully built.  

 

 We often see that in our community.  When facts and reason fail the law is 
used.

 

BN

 

 

-- 

Borg le Chevalier
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

[Badru Ntege]

 ☺  Me thinks the man doth protest too much 

 

A general statement shared openly as an observation not pointed to any one 
multinational or individual should be allowed to be just that.  

 

An observation by a community member.  No need for “legal” requirements of 
evidence.

 

Regards

 

BN

 

 

From: Andrew Alston 
Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 7:01 PM
To: Badru Ntege , Chevalier du Borg 

Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

 

See – I see these as totally unsubstantiated allegations with no substance.

 

So – if this is what you believe – who are these multi-nationals you refer to 
that are raping and pillaging our resources.  If you wanna make accusations 
like this – speak the names – give the evidence – and keep in mind – the one 
defense against defamation is the truth.  If however you don’t wish to name 
names – and risk the potential consequences if you can’t actually back up the 
claims – then lets quit with the rhetoric and the vague insinuations that have 
no specifics and no basis in fact.

 

Andrew

 

 

From: Badru Ntege 
Date: Wednesday, 12 December 2018 at 07:01
To: Chevalier du Borg , Andrew Alston 

Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

 

 

 

 

From: Chevalier du Borg 
Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 1:42 PM
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

 



 

 

As to everything having been review and ok by AFRINIC, please note that every 
one of the multinational company that rape this continent usually obey the 
LETTER of the law.

 

Multinationals fronted by members hide behind the law to continue the rape and 
pilage of our resources including the number resources.  We have seen the law 
used so many times to destroy what others have painfully built.  

 

We often see that in our community.  When facts and reason fail the law is used.

 

BN

 

 

-- 

Borg le Chevalier
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Questions about AfriNIC Allocations

[Badru Ntege]

 

 

 

From: Chevalier du Borg 
Date: Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 11:06 AM
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Questions about AfriNIC Allocations

 

 

Le mar. 4 déc. 2018 à 23:37, Andrew Alston  a 
écrit :

Seun,

 

Firstly – my beliefs on the board process and the workings of the board are 
mine – and my opinions are my opinions – and there is nothing that stops me 
stating that in my *opinion* things are *deeply* flawed – and that I am 
prohibited from clarifying WHY I hope those opinions.  The counter argument to 
what you say is simple – if things ARENT problematic – then waiver the NDA – 
you should have nothing to hide.

 

 

Dear AFRINIC board

 

 

So long as ex-member of board keep insisting there is something wrong, this 
community (or part of it) will not trust you. That is not good for this 
community, or to AFRINIC. Maybe you really should suspend NDA for Andrew so we 
can clear this up.

 

 

Lets not forget NDA was Andrews baby and he used quite successfully alongside 
the Mauritian law to get away with a number of misdeamenors during his time on 
board.

 

I obviously can’t say more since its protected by the NDA ☺ 

 

 

 

At least even if he don't send his concern to community,  suspend NDA so he may 
raise concern to gouvenance committee and or council of elder. 

 

 

-- 

Borg le Chevalier
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC 2019 AGMM quorum

[Badru Ntege]

@Andrew 

 

Let me ask a simple question

 

Have you failed to access the public document from the Mauritian courts ??

 

I would suggest since the reference has been given its easier for you to access 
the documents less they share it here and you still think that they might have 
doctored it since you have been very clear and public that you do not trust 
anything they do.

 

I actually think it’s more transparent for Afrinic to refer members to a public 
document than try to share it here.  

 

We should all be working to positively impact our organization as opposed to 
breaking it down at every opportunity we get.

 

Regards

 

BN

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Andrew Alston 
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 3:57 PM
To: Dabu Sifiso , Sander Steffann 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC 2019 AGMM quorum

 

SC/COM/MOT/01411/2018

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude

[Badru Ntege]

From what I see here

A collective and binding decision was made by board to release information at 
an appropriate time.  That decision would have been bidding to all board 
members as per procedure.

One or two members went ahead to release that information outside the board 
agreed process.

Whether or not that information was already publicly available.   The intent of 
the members that released the information was in response to community asking 
for the board to release the information.

The proper way for that information to be released would have been through the 
approved board process.

The members in question that released information did it in their capacity as 
board members and would have received that information under that capacity.

Every action has consequences and as adults we make decisions having considered 
the consequences one would assume.

I urge us all to be rational.  I somehow believe you all believe you are acting 
in the best interest of our organisations AfriNIC.

But blowing a procedural issue like this to this level and even trying to 
relate or connect it to a personal decision of an employee to resign is 
reaching and really not in the spirit of the entire community or our 
organisations.

Lets give the people we elected the respect they deserve, advise them when they 
need the guidance and allow them to do the job.

We cannot all be board members at the same time so we choose a few from the 
wide community to do that role.

Looking forward to hosting you all in beautiful Kampala for AIS19

Regards
BN




From: John Walu 
Date: Friday, May 31, 2019 at 11:08 AM
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: "community-discuss@afrinic.net" 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude

@Andrew

I thot AfriNIC has a well-established mechanism for supporting or not 
supporting the current chair. I am sure you recall this used to happen every 
year after new members join the board and a vote is called to either extend or 
rotate the chairman position.

Am not sure if there has been a change this process and now the voting of the 
Chair by board members happens on email ;-)

That said,

I had not bothered to read the board minutes under discussion but after reading 
them, I am a bit surprised that 4years later, AfriNIC board is still obsessed 
with 'information control' strategies when they should be concerned with 
'information sharing' strategies.

Strictly speaking, Afrinic, as a community network has really nothing worth 
hiding (other than as per Data Protection Act/Regulations). Furthermore trying 
to hide or suppress what is already a public document, does not send a good 
signal to the community.

Dr. Bope, our Chairman, I am sure you can actually move beyond this and focus 
the board in more progressive endeavors.

best regards and all the best.

walu.



On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 10:22 AM Andrew Alston 
mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Can we  conclude from the total lack of response to this email that in fact – 
there is no one willing to step up and say they support the current chair?  
Either member or board member?

Andrew

From: Frank Habicht mailto:ge...@geier.ne.tz>>
Sent: Tuesday, 28 May 2019 16:36
To: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude

Hi,

reading
https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2018-minutes/20181231-minutes.pdf

especially:

SO stated that he had requested via email for the Board to announce the
status of the AGMM quorum court case. He stated that the Chair had
refused to do so, and the Chair had alleged that SO was looking for
votes. SO had requested the Chair to withdraw the statement. The Chair
stated that the Board had discussed the matter, and would communicate to
the community at an appropriate time; based on that the Chair did not
see a need to withdraw. SO again requested the Chair to withdraw the
allegation that SO was looking for votes, and the Chair again refused to
withdraw.


I conclude that the Chair actively tried to suppress information/updates
from AfriNIC membership. He apparently had no good reason and was using
the allegation of another board member "looking for votes" as only argument.

Which member of AfriNIC wants to have such a chair at the AfriNIC board?
Please identify yourselves positively.

PS: I would also wish to know which other board members supported this
decision by the chair.

Thanks,
Frank



On 28/05/2019 16:18, Mark Elkins wrote:
> Thinking about the CEO, reading the minutes (
> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf ) - I
> think the best way out for the AfriNIC community is if the whole board
> resigns - just leave the CEO. Andrew has got it right.
>
> On 2019/05/28 14:36, Andrew Alston wrote:
>>
>> Benjamin,
>>
>>
>>
>> Let’s see – you have a public document – a document that is clearly
>> and totally in the public domain.  You have an individual who was a
>> named party in that document – who chose to share that document.  

Re: [Community-Discuss] FW: Everyone... meet Benjamin

[Badru Ntege]

Alan Levin wrote  “I really hope AfriNIC is shut down at this point”

I find it hard to balance a statement like that.


The organization will survive as much as many wish it not to.

However I would like to ask the Board to invoke its right to expel members who 
are working against the interest of the organization and the message above by 
Alan Levin is very clear.

I have heard the word “Cabal” in the corridors and only now has penny dropped.  
I can now put into context the emails I have been reading from you sir and all 
related parties.


Regards

BN


From: Alan Levin 
Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 3:50 PM
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FW: Everyone... meet Benjamin

I really hope AfriNIC is shut down at this point
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

[Badru Ntege]

Correction 500 Human beings  and somewhere in those human beings are members ☺



500 members? Really? Let’s see the vote tallies

Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy

From: Badru Ntege 
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 4:37:00 PM
To: Ali Hussein; General Discussions of AFRINIC
Cc: aleruchich...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

@Ali

When you say the “community has lost faith” do you speak for the billion 
African  users, the 1700 members,  the over 500 currently attending the 
conference ???

I find it a very general statement and abit of clarification might help

Regards





From: Ali Hussein 
Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 12:49 PM
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Cc: "aleruchich...@yahoo.com" 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

This is a symptom of the bigger problem that afflicts Afrinic. My thoughts:-

1. Seems to me (perception really that may not be reality) that Afrinic is on 
auto-pilot and the software operating it is corrupted.
2. The board is missing in action.
3. The community has basically lost faith in the institution.
4. There have been accusations for some time about some 'hijacking' that is in 
the offing. Unsubstantiated of course but there none-the-less.

This situation continues to deteriorate. As a critical resource for the 
continent, what can we do to salvage the situation?  Should we continue to 
accuse each other or jointly find a solution?

Will Afrinic collapse on our watch?


Ali Hussein

Principal

AHK & Associates



Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim



13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,

Chiromo Road, Westlands,

Nairobi, Kenya.

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine 
and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that 
I work with.


On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:19 PM Andrew Alston 
mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
I have another question actually.

Can anyone confirm that this individual actually physically exists and is not 
the twisted alter ego of some other person who does not have the guts to 
actually stand up and show themselves?

In the original email – they claim to have just arrived in Kampala – yet – 
speaking to people on the ground – I’ve yet to find a single person who has met 
this individual – and he has yet to have the courage to show himself at the 
microphone from what I can see – hence – I find myself wondering if this person 
really does exist, and if so, why they can be so cowardly as to make such 
spurious accusations without being willing to show face.

Andrew


From: aleruchi chuku via RPD mailto:r...@afrinic.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, 19 June 2019 10:51
To: benjamin.le...@gmail.com<mailto:benjamin.le...@gmail.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>; rpd >> 
AfriNIC Resource Policy mailto:r...@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

Benjamin
I will love to see you stand tall at the open Mic and say all you have said on 
the mailing list today.
Remember that true courage is not hidden.

Aleruchi
Sent from Yahoo Mail on 
Android<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 at 8:41 am, Benjamin Ledoh
mailto:benjamin.le...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Aleruchi,

> How much were you paid to do this?

The pay I get is the pride that will help me stand tall in this community.

Benjiloh


On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 5:11 AM aleruchi chuku 
mailto:aleruchich...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Dearest Benjamin

Wow!!
On the morning of an election day. All to cause bad feeling within the 
community.
How much were you paid to do this?
I hope its worth it.

No true Nigerian will do what you just did.

Aleruchi

Sent from Yahoo Mail on 
Android<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 at 1:44 am, Benjamin Ledoh
mailto:benjamin.le...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Community,

I have arrived in Kampala this yesterday and the intelligence I have gathered 
since then is so alarming that I have decided to send this email to call on my 
fellow Nigerians (not all) and brother Ugandans  (not all) conscience to put 
Africa first. To put the interest of this community first so that we keep our 
Internet Resources for the development of Africa and for the future generation.

From the intelligence I have gathered, two groups are working tirelessly to 
hijack AFRINIC resources. The obvious consequences are the close down of 
AFRINIC and the appropriation of the Internet Resources of our region. If these 
happen, it implies that whenever an organization in Africa needs IPv4, IPv6 or 
ASN, it has to get it in the black markets where those resources would be very 
expensive perhaps not aff

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

[Badru Ntege]

@Ali

When you say the “community has lost faith” do you speak for the billion 
African  users, the 1700 members,  the over 500 currently attending the 
conference ???

I find it a very general statement and abit of clarification might help

Regards





From: Ali Hussein 
Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 12:49 PM
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Cc: "aleruchich...@yahoo.com" 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

This is a symptom of the bigger problem that afflicts Afrinic. My thoughts:-

1. Seems to me (perception really that may not be reality) that Afrinic is on 
auto-pilot and the software operating it is corrupted.
2. The board is missing in action.
3. The community has basically lost faith in the institution.
4. There have been accusations for some time about some 'hijacking' that is in 
the offing. Unsubstantiated of course but there none-the-less.

This situation continues to deteriorate. As a critical resource for the 
continent, what can we do to salvage the situation?  Should we continue to 
accuse each other or jointly find a solution?

Will Afrinic collapse on our watch?


Ali Hussein

Principal

AHK & Associates



Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim



13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,

Chiromo Road, Westlands,

Nairobi, Kenya.

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine 
and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that 
I work with.


On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:19 PM Andrew Alston 
mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
I have another question actually.

Can anyone confirm that this individual actually physically exists and is not 
the twisted alter ego of some other person who does not have the guts to 
actually stand up and show themselves?

In the original email – they claim to have just arrived in Kampala – yet – 
speaking to people on the ground – I’ve yet to find a single person who has met 
this individual – and he has yet to have the courage to show himself at the 
microphone from what I can see – hence – I find myself wondering if this person 
really does exist, and if so, why they can be so cowardly as to make such 
spurious accusations without being willing to show face.

Andrew


From: aleruchi chuku via RPD mailto:r...@afrinic.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, 19 June 2019 10:51
To: benjamin.le...@gmail.com
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>; rpd >> 
AfriNIC Resource Policy mailto:r...@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

Benjamin
I will love to see you stand tall at the open Mic and say all you have said on 
the mailing list today.
Remember that true courage is not hidden.

Aleruchi
Sent from Yahoo Mail on 
Android

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 at 8:41 am, Benjamin Ledoh
mailto:benjamin.le...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Aleruchi,

> How much were you paid to do this?

The pay I get is the pride that will help me stand tall in this community.

Benjiloh


On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 5:11 AM aleruchi chuku 
mailto:aleruchich...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Dearest Benjamin

Wow!!
On the morning of an election day. All to cause bad feeling within the 
community.
How much were you paid to do this?
I hope its worth it.

No true Nigerian will do what you just did.

Aleruchi

Sent from Yahoo Mail on 
Android

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 at 1:44 am, Benjamin Ledoh
mailto:benjamin.le...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Community,

I have arrived in Kampala this yesterday and the intelligence I have gathered 
since then is so alarming that I have decided to send this email to call on my 
fellow Nigerians (not all) and brother Ugandans  (not all) conscience to put 
Africa first. To put the interest of this community first so that we keep our 
Internet Resources for the development of Africa and for the future generation.

From the intelligence I have gathered, two groups are working tirelessly to 
hijack AFRINIC resources. The obvious consequences are the close down of 
AFRINIC and the appropriation of the Internet Resources of our region. If these 
happen, it implies that whenever an organization in Africa needs IPv4, IPv6 or 
ASN, it has to get it in the black markets where those resources would be very 
expensive perhaps not affordable too or to go to RIPE or ARIN. The two groups 
are, on one side, white South African led by Mr. Andrew Alston of Liquid 
Telecom with their allies Mark Elkins and Owen Delong, and on the other side, 
Lu with his Foundation from China.

WHAT ARE ISSUES AT HAND?

The British/South Africa Mark Elkins, the candidate of election, wants to 
become the co-chair of PDWG. His mission as co-chair is to push for the policy 
“IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers (Comprehensive Scope)” proposed by Spanish 
or Latino Jordi 

Re: [Community-Discuss] FW: Everyone... meet Benjamin

[Badru Ntege]

Hi All

I'm trying to find how any of this links to an AfriNIC the company.This is 
a bottom up process, if all members comments were equated to Afrinic the 
company, where would we be ?? 

I'm tired of all this negativity.  

AfriNIC is an organization with employees who do a great job.  

Leave AfriNIC alone.  

Discuss community issues away from the organization.   

Regards





 

On 6/19/19, 4:07 PM, "Warwick Duncan"  wrote:

Hi Alan

On 2019/06/19 14:47, Alan Levin wrote:
[..]> I really hope AfriNIC is shut down at this point
> I would rather work with RIPE

I can't agree on those two points.  My hope is that Afrinic can be fixed
from within and that we in the region don't have to run to a big brother
figure to fix it for us.

> A very sad time for African Internet 

I hope that you're wrong and that this is a very exciting time for
Africa to take control of its mandate.

Regards
Warwick

> On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 at 13:55, Andrew Alston
>  > wrote:
> 
> Sorry – I accidently sent this to the wrong list originally – so –
> let it be stated here for the community to see as well
> 
> __ __
> 
> Thanks
> 
> __ __
> 
> Andrew
> 
> __ __
> 
> __ __
> 
> So,
> 
> __ __
> 
> This was sent to me – I was not actually involved in the work done
> to find this – but – I thought it would be of interest to the 
list.
> 
> __ __
> 
> Everyone – meet Marcus Adomey – Also known as Benjamin Ledoh.
> 
> __ __
> 
> I also point out that – if you use a separate email address that is
> NOT Marcus’s – it explicitly tells you that it’s the wrong 
address.
> 
> __ __
> 
> So Marcus – do you care to explain how an author of PDP-BIS – who
> claims to be attempting to bring the policy process to a more fair
> and equitable method – is hiding under an alias posting defamatory,
> unsubstantiated and spurious allegations?
> 
> __ __
> 
> Thanks
> 
> __ __
> 
> Andrew
> 
> __ __
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net 
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 
> 
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 

-- 
Warwick Duncan
Managing Director
Neuos (Pty) Ltd

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[Badru Ntege]

Jordi

Curious to know the end in mind with your question??   Please elucidate

BN


From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
Reply-To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ 
Date: Thursday, July 4, 2019 at 12:11 PM
To: Ahmed Fadl , "Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

Hi Ahmen,

I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you 
personally provided your email to Wafa?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl" 
mailto:ahmed.f...@57357.org>> escribió:

Hi Jordi
Already my mail provided for all community members
Thank you


From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.pa...@consulintel.es]
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

Hi Ahmed,

Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that’s the case, 
if it was for discussing about candidates?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" 
mailto:ahmed.f...@57357.org>> escribió:

Thank you Sami for your introduction
Let me also introduce myself
My name is Ahmed Fadl, I’m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called 
children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of 
charge, my role is healthcare applications director.
Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this 
specializations.
Also I’m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic 
community.
My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person 
before we vote for them.
I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don’t know
The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because 
we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions 
knowledge and skills.
This is what I mean by my mail.
Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all 
African countries.
Also all respect for community members.
Thank you


From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.sa...@outlook.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM
To: Noah mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>>; Ahmed Fadl 
mailto:ahmed.f...@57357.org>>
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa 
Dahmani mailto:wafatn7...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

Salam

I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows 
who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear !
Looking for your positive continuous engagement.

BR

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355

From: Noah mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>>
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa 
Dahmani
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

Dear Ahmed

First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am 
seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage 
in various discussions as a member of the community now.

So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to 
the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in 
general.

Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of 
AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC 
ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP 
association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the 
AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations 
because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is 
from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise.

I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this 
community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use 
my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of 
the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have 
been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, 
sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views 
on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying 
to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on 
her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and 
the community.

Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it .. and my view of that email 
from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and 
candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as 
some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib 
ended up getting the highest votes ever of 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Badru Ntege]

Wafa

Thanks for this response.  It’s critical that new members open their eyes and 
minds and make reasoned unbiased contributions to the PDP.

Sent from my iPhone

On 2 Jul 2019, at 12:35, wafa DAHMANI mailto:w...@ati.tn>> wrote:

Hi

It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation 
fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a  
confidential  Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals 
detailed in the following link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg

The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of 
Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the 
proposals.

The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views 
on the proposals  and their contributions at the PPM and after

I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to 
participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each 
source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP 
matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are 
encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.  Also 
PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.

 RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough consensus  
process.

 Section 6
One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus.

Section 7
Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus

My African fellows,

Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate 
and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting  was useful to you and allow 
you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa 
needs...  I hope you’ve made your minds and  now able to speak on your personal 
 capacity..

The real education package  is as below:
=

Proposal to establish AFRINIC
http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997

IANA report  on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf

AFRINIC constitution
https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws

Registration Service  Agreement
https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa

AFRINIC policy manual
https://afrinic.net/policy/manual

AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM
https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre

AFRINIC PDP
https://www.afrinic.net/policy

Rough Consensus
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282

AFRINIC current policy proposals
https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals

RiRs PDPs
https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/

RIR comparative  policy overview
https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/
==

Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

Come build African Internet by Africans.

As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member 
with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and 
discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these 
discussions in the archives.

I call the attention of the board on the  repetitive attempts of this resource 
member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions...  the provisions of the 
bylaws and RSA must  carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code 
of conduct.

The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must 
pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and 
operations.


-Wafa
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Badru Ntege]

Fully Agree with Sanders comments bellow.  We already have the frameworks in 
place.

 

On 7/3/19, 8:22 PM, "Sander Steffann"  wrote:

Hi Jordi,

> I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff 
(see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 
above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* 
proposals/versions are considered.

I accept, except s/authors and staff/wg chairs/. Afrinic staff is in a 
difficult position as their jobs and tasks can be influenced by policy 
proposals, so asking them to write a non-biased summary isn't fair. The working 
group chairs have explicitly chosen to represent the working group as a whole 
and to be neutral regarding proposals, so they are the most appropriate people 
to make summaries. It's what they do when determining consensus anyway, so it 
is already part of their tasks. Sharing that before a face-to-face meeting 
would be very helpful and will help focus the discussions there.

Cheers!
Sander



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: AFRINIC-31 Meeting

[Badru Ntege]

I agree with you on the bad taste.

Have many words to add but time to breathe in and out and constrain oneself

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Nov 2019, at 12:26, Mark Tinka 
mailto:mark.ti...@seacom.mu>> wrote:

Not sure if anyone else has received these...

I am probably old school, but these kinds of things leave a bad taste in my 
mouth.

Mark.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject:AFRINIC-31 Meeting
Date:   Fri, 15 Nov 2019 09:18:52 +
From:   Lena AFRINIC 
To: mark.ti...@seacom.mu




[http://service.breeden-comm.com/content/2efdcfad60a3dcd7c788098b904e40cf.png]

Greetings,


Hope this email finds you well!

I'm representing IPv4 Services, a registered broker in RIPE, ARIN and APNIC. We 
are attending at AFRINIC 31 in Luanda, Angola, and would be a pleasure to meet 
people that are open to a potential collaboration regarding IPv4 resources.

We are planning to establish new connections and find AFRINIC based business 
partners for selling/leasing/purchase of IPv4 addresses.

NOTE - if you are interested please feel free to contact me with any questions.


See you at the event.


--

Kind regards,

Elena Dontu



lena.ipv4 (Skype)

LenaIPv4 (WeChat)

+37360820413 (WhatsApp)

web: ipv4services.com




You received this email because you subscribed at Ripe Training Courses

Отписаться

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Continuous Negative Narrative Towards AfriNIC in the Press

[Badru Ntege]

+1

 

On 10/29/19, 9:45 AM, "Mark Tinka"  wrote:



On 29/Oct/19 08:39, Sami Salih wrote:

> I don't believe we need to be very annoyed by what is leaked on "free"
> news publichers -I really hope they r free-

You know what they say in 2019... "When it's free, you're the product" :-).

But agree with you, heads down, focus on doing good work, pay your dues,
and all the rest will happen.

Mark.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Afrinic Scandals, future and the PDP

[Badru Ntege]

Marcus and All

Anyone who has run a cooperation will know that any cooperation will have 
issues. For Goodness sake even the Vatican has had issues.

What we do is understand the issue mitigate and ensure we put measures in place 
to prevent a repeat.

The organisation has told us they are carrying out an investigation.  And we 
trust they will do a thorough job.  Let’s wait for the outcomes


They are many dooms day proponents but they will always be outnumbered by those 
that wish the organization well.

We have many dedicated staff that have made AFRINIC what it is today and they 
continue to ensure that we have sustainable infrastructure on this continent.  
I’m sure the community at large appreciates this and I want to hear more from 
the community.

We have come along way and we will continue to get better every year.  AFriNIC 
belongs to us all.  Let’s support them through the challenges.

Eddy and team. I and I’m sure many members of this community have trust in you 
and look forward to the next 20 plus years of Afrinic.

Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 19 Jan 2020, at 02:38, Marcus K. G. Adomey  wrote:


Dear community,

In this long article, Kieren McCarthy set a long trail of issues  our beloved 
RIR has been facing. Probably, nothing new from the old fox, but there seems to 
include serious matters for thought and actions by us.
His conclusion  below sounds  like a serious interpellation to us.



As its fourth CEO in four years, Kayihura faces an immediate test: can he 
ensure that the issue of the sale of stolen IP blocks is dealt with 
professionally and openly? And then can he use that platform to ensure Afrinic 
starts on a serious process of reform after years of insider dealing and 
cover-ups?



For a bottom-up and community driven organization, the community should take 
its  part of responsibility and promptly act to help the organization 
re-emerge. The advice from the author should be taken seriously by this 
community

The PDWG as one of the major components of this ecosystem must also reflect the 
new reformed Afrinic.



https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/12/17/another_afrinic_scandal/
[https://regmedia.co.uk/2019/12/17/shutterstock_corruption.jpg]

Stop us if you've heard it before but... Africa's internet management body 
mired again by corruption allegations • The 
Register
UK data watchdog kicks £280m British Airways and Marriott GDPR fines into legal 
long grass If you haven't shored up that Citrix hole, you were probably hacked 
over the weekend: Exploit code now ...
www.theregister.co.uk


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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Afrinic Scandals, future and the PDP

[Badru Ntege]

Daniel and all

I do not want to get into debate here. I think we all agree that there’s an 
investigation that will come out with an outcome.And that based on that 
outcome some actions will be expected to be taken.

As we await for that outcome we need to appreciate that we have an organization 
that I still 100% appreciate what they do every day and also appreciate just 
like any ISO system appreciates that in any perfect systems every now and then 
we must expect some non conformity.

When that happens we fix and mitigate repetition.

I’m sure thats what I meant to say sorry you read it differently.

I also appreciate your version of the reality


Regards.

BN

Badru Ntege
Group CEO
NFTCONSULT
+256 772712088
Twt: ntegeb


From: Murungi Daniel 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 6:41 PM
To: Badru Ntege
Cc: Marcus K. G. Adomey; community-discuss@afrinic.net; AfriNIC Resource Policy 
Discussion List
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Afrinic Scandals, future and the PDP

Dear Badru,

On Jan 19, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Badru Ntege 
mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>> wrote:

Marcus and All

Anyone who has run a cooperation will know that any cooperation will have 
issues. For Goodness sake even the Vatican has had issues.

I strongly disagree with this assessment. Not only does this tone imply that 
being lackluster is okay but it’s akin to the excuse people make regarding poor 
time keeping - “This is Africa blah blah blah …”.


What we do is understand the issue mitigate and ensure we put measures in place 
to prevent a repeat.

Not just understand but identify and document at which step or process failure 
occurred. As an ISO certified organization, am certain AfriNIC has well 
documented internal processes and workflows. Clearly, some of the processes 
were not followed in the past and the checks and balances must have been 
ignored by the responsible parties.


The organisation has told us they are carrying out an investigation.  And we 
trust they will do a thorough job.  Let’s wait for the outcomes


They are many dooms day proponents but they will always be outnumbered by those 
that wish the organization well.

Definitely. For the dooms day proponents - I welcome you to take a walk with us 
on the path of hope.


We have many dedicated staff that have made AFRINIC what it is today and they 
continue to ensure that we have sustainable infrastructure on this continent.  
I’m sure the community at large appreciates this and I want to hear more from 
the community.

We have come along way and we will continue to get better every year.  AFriNIC 
belongs to us all.  Let’s support them through the challenges.

Eddy and team. I and I’m sure many members of this community have trust in you 
and look forward to the next 20 plus years of Afrinic.


Trust - Honestly, this has been severely eroded. On the other hand, I pray that 
the good Lord bless Eddy and his team with the grace, wisdom and patience 
required to clean up and carry the organization to new heights.


Food for thought -  a Warren Buffet quote - "Lose money for my firm and I will 
be understanding; lose a shred of reputation for the firm, and I will be 
ruthless.”


Regards,
Daniel


Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 19 Jan 2020, at 02:38, Marcus K. G. Adomey 
mailto:mado...@hotmail.com>> wrote:


Dear community,

In this long article, Kieren McCarthy set a long trail of issues  our beloved 
RIR has been facing. Probably, nothing new from the old fox, but there seems to 
include serious matters for thought and actions by us.
His conclusion  below sounds  like a serious interpellation to us.



As its fourth CEO in four years, Kayihura faces an immediate test: can he 
ensure that the issue of the sale of stolen IP blocks is dealt with 
professionally and openly? And then can he use that platform to ensure Afrinic 
starts on a serious process of reform after years of insider dealing and 
cover-ups?



For a bottom-up and community driven organization, the community should take 
its  part of responsibility and promptly act to help the organization 
re-emerge. The advice from the author should be taken seriously by this 
community

The PDWG as one of the major components of this ecosystem must also reflect the 
new reformed Afrinic.



https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/12/17/another_afrinic_scandal/
[https://regmedia.co.uk/2019/12/17/shutterstock_corruption.jpg]<https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/12/17/another_afrinic_scandal/>

Stop us if you've heard it before but... Africa's internet management body 
mired again by corruption allegations • The 
Register<https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/12/17/another_afrinic_scandal/>
UK data watchdog kicks £280m British Airways and Marriott GDPR fines into legal 
long grass If you haven't shored up that Citrix hole, you were probably hacked 
over the weekend: Exploit code now ...
www.theregister.co.uk

Re: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message

[Badru Ntege]

We should take this as  an oversight.  And NomCom Chair will take note.

Its time for us all to find that space that builds trust through the community.

Lets heal the wounds through our actions and words.

Have a wonderful day all.

regards

BN


From: Marcus K. G. Adomey [mado...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 March 2020 18:50
To: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message

Dear Community,

Our goodwill advocates have sighted an email message from the recently 
appointed and current NomCom chair to his favorite private mailing list in 
South Africa soliciting applications from the country in question.


As a community, we have a few questions to ensure fairness in terms of 
recruitment of people based on merit and most importantly diversity.

1. Would the NomCom please share announcements equally well across other 
African countries to the same extent as the NomCom chair is doing for 
specifically South Africa?


2. Is this a personal act or was this done in his capacity as the NomCom chair 
where utmost objective neutrality is expected.


3. The said message asks for more South African representation even though it 
indicates SA already has a seat.

Does this show some level of bias from the chairman of NomCom.

4. The said email indicates that the best way to influence the organization 
(meaning AfriNIC) is by getting involved and appeals for people on the said 
list to do so.

This shows intent of bias focused on a specific country with aim of control 
while  development is totally forgotten.


Marcus

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Re: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message

[Badru Ntege]

Members

I ask that the message on this is clear and we end this thread.  Lets focus on 
building and not breaking.  It was clear that last election our cousins from 
the south did not take elections seriously so lets allow the fact that NOMCOM 
chair found it necesary to encourage the region to be active.

The method used might not have been tactical enough for some but as i said 
earler lets take it as an oversight and move on.

We need good qualified candidates.

regards





From: John Walu [walu.j...@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 March 2020 17:40
To: Andrew Alston
Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message

I am also struggling to understand the 'crime'.

I served on several past Nomination Committees and my first line of 
advertising/recruitment was always my own networks. For the simple reason that  
I really didn't have access to OTHER peoples networks.

AfriNIC has in recent times struggled to raise multiple candidates per seat and 
so NomComm Members and Chair should be encouraged to cast their search as wide 
as possiblenaturally charity, would I presume to begin from home.

So evidence or no evidence, NOMCOM please keep advertising and searching 
without fear or favor.

walu

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 3:51 PM Andrew Alston 
mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Quite frankly without the alleged communication  and evidence - I consider this 
entire thread spurious and a waste of time - and it should probably head 
straight to dev/null where I will now place it - especially considering it’s 
source - Hi Benjamin.

Andrew

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: Marcus K. G. Adomey mailto:mado...@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 10:48:18 PM
To: Sunday Folayan mailto:sfola...@gmail.com>>
Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net> 
mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message

Hi Sunday,

Actually, Badru did see something wrong in the action posed by the NomCom chair 
... Badru mentioned an oversight

My 1st mail on this issue clearly raised few questions which only the author of 
the action can respond to. I did not share the solicitation mail as the derived 
questions and comments seem enough to explain its content and the 
recriminations. The intent is not to make a tremendous issue ... but seek 
commitment of NomCom to remain neutral, fair and transparent.

As you want the evidences, I would expect the NomCom chair to play full 
transparency and share the message and respond to the questions to clear the 
air.

The incident might be closed thereafter

Hope this helps


Marcus


From: Sunday Folayan mailto:sfola...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 2:00 PM
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey mailto:mado...@hotmail.com>>
Cc: Badru Ntege 
mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com>>; 
community-discuss@afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net> 
mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message

Hi Marcus,

I agree with Badru. I was not sure your Email was inviting any comment or 
response from the NOMCOM Chair, as the said solicitation email was not shared. 
In my little corner, I was remembering that the Southern Africa and Western 
Africa regions cannot contest in the current Board Elections. This is certainly 
the reason why NOMCOM is made of people from Southern Africa and Western 
Africa, who cannot run for Board positions.

Of course, I understand the Independent Board seats are not filled via any 
regional affiliation, but if you want to push some issue of conflict of 
interests, you may send the evidences to the Board and I expect working with 
the Governance Committee, they can take a good look at it to ensure fairness, 
openness and transparency.

Pushing it further here, will only ginger some mob action, which is not in the 
overall interest of the organization.

Just my personal thoughts.

Have a nice day.

Sunday.


On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:22 PM Marcus K. G. Adomey 
mailto:mado...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Badru,

I have your email and thank you. BUT this constant attempts to undermine 
serious issues, by not giving them the required attention, is not helpful and 
not healthy.

How do you propose healing wounds without admission of wrongdoing?

How can we build trust when senior people like the current NomCom behave like 
that?

When people are turning things personal, country and local community  based, 
instead of thinking regional as per Afrinic mandate.
It has been almost 3 days that the questions were asked and the NomCom chair 
did not even bother addressing  the concerns raised.

How would people trust the NomCom and the upcoming elections?



Marcus

From: Badru Ntege 
ma