Re: Bad news regarding future Java use?

[Phillip Rhodes]

I read that as only referring to the Java 8 SE binaries specifically.
If I'm reading this right, users using a Java 9 or Java 10 SDK will
still be fine.  That just means we have an onus on us to make sure
things work with the latest versions of the SDK.


Phil

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On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Pedro Lino  wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I just updated Java 8 and got a notification saying
>
> "You have successfully installed Java.
> Important Information about Oracle Java SE Roadmap:
> Changes are coming which will impact your access to future releases of
> Java SE from Oracle. Corporate users will be impacted as soon as
> January 2019. For additional guidance please follow the link below
> More information on roadmap"
>
> https://www.java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp
>
> If I understand the notice correctly this will not be a problem for personal 
> use at home but all OpenOffice features requiring Java can not be used within 
> a company unless the company buys a Java license...
>
> I hope I misunderstood the message :(
>
> Regards,
> Pedro
>
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Re: Request re-instatement as an APache OpenOffice committer

[Phillip Rhodes]

Kay's back!! Yay!  That makes me very happy.  :-)


Phil

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On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
>
>> Hello Kay,
>>
>> I am sorry for the delay. The PMC has accepted your request to
>> re-instatement as a commiter. We are glad that you took the step and we
>> looking forward to your contribution.
>>
>> Please people give her a nice welcome back! :-D
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
> Thank you.
>
>
> --
> --
> Kay Schenk
> Apache OpenOffice
>
> "Things work out best for those who make
>  the best of the way things work out."
>-- John Wooden

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Re: [CLOSED] Was: Re: [VOTE] Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC4 as GA

[Phillip Rhodes]

+1

I just want to say, this makes me very happy.  I regret that I haven't
had enough free time to make any real contribution myself, but massive
props to everybody who made this happen!  AOO lives on!  :-)

I still have some ideas for Calc I want to work on, so maybe I'll
finally be able to carve out some time for that stuff in the near
future.


Phil

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On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> After waiting giving us a bit more than the required and
> normal 72 hours, we have plenty more than the required 3
> +1 (binding) votes.
>
> As such, I call the Vote CLOSED with the RESULT that the
> Vote Passes!! 4.1.4-RC4 will be released as GA !
>
> Thanks to all who helped in every and all ways in getting this
> puppy out!
>
>> On Sep 30, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
>>
>> I am calling a VOTE on releasing Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC4
>> as GA!!
>>
>> You can find these gems at:
>>
>>  https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/openoffice/4.1.4-RC4/
>>
>> The vote will last at least the normal 72 hours.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> --
>> Jim Jagielski
>> On behalf of the Apache OpenOffice Project
>>
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>
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Re: [Discussion] Switch to Git?

[Phillip Rhodes]

Unless there's some compelling technical reason for keep SVN, of which
I am unaware, I am +1 on switching to Git.  If nothing else, from an
"optics" perspective it keeps potential new contributors from looking
at the project and thinking "SVN? WTF? Why is this project using
obsolete tech like that???"

NOTE: I am not saying SVN is obsolete... but I expect a lot of devs do
think it is, given how faddish the tech world is.   And I wouldn't
advocate switching for the sake of switching if Git weren't genuinely
a good, probably better, option in it's own right.

All of that said, this definitely shouldn't hold up an imminent release.


Phil

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On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Herbert Duerr  wrote:
> On 09/18/2017 06:30 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 7:44 PM, Herbert Duerr  wrote:
>>> On 09/17/2017 04:04 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
 On 14/09/2017 Dave Fisher wrote:
> does SVN vs. GIT prevent new developers from volunteering?

 I think this is the key question, even though there are many good points
 also in what others replied.

 We currently have a couple semi-official GIT mirrors: one on Github in
 the ASF organization page and the internal one Herbert pointed out. I
 also remember that Herbert once presented a big GIT repository he had
 built with all the available history of the OpenOffice code, but I don't
 know if it is available somewhere.
>>>
>>> I had that 2GB blob on my Apache homepage for a couple of years. When
>>> that home was migrated to the newer locations it was apparently dropped.
>>> Unless someone mirrored the blob it is currently not available anymore.
>>> If anyone is really interested in that ancient history I can probably
>>> resurrect it unless 2+GB blobs are no longer allowed in committer's home
>>> directories.
>>>
>>>
>> That would be great. I need the old repository to regression test an old
>> bug in Base. However, is it legal to have commits from the pre-ASLv2 era?
>
> The related presentation is still available at [1], and I found my blob
> of the historic repos in [2]. Enjoy!
>
> [1] http://home.apache.org/~hdu/HistOOory_Presentation.pdf
> [2] https://dev-www.libreoffice.org/extern/HistOOory_v0.9.zip
>
 I believe that the interested developers (including me, at times) use
 the git-svn tool when convenient. I think that this is enough to allow
 the local workflow improvements Damjan was requesting. Or do you see
 reasons not to use it?
>>>
>>> OpenOffice is only a small part of the Apache subversion repository that
>>> contains many more projects. Most revisions in that repo are not for OOo
>>> and git-svn apparently has a hard time with this. It is possible but not
>>> much fun.
>>>
>>>
>> Excellent insight. Never thought of that. git-svn is almost unusable then.
>
> I think that it could be possible to improve git-svn in cases such as
> the multi-project Apache svn-repository, but that scenario + devs in an
> svn-project using git as their main repo tool is unusual enough that it
> is not worth too much optimization effort.
>
> Herbert
>
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Re: New Build error Package Orbit is missing

[Phillip Rhodes]

Yep, I ran into that as well.  In my case, just doing a quick "sudo
dnf -y install Orbit2 Orbit2-devel" took care of that.


Phil

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On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Marcus  wrote:
> Am 01/04/2017 01:37 PM, schrieb Peter Kovacs:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>> just wanted to update that I worked around the Java Error.
>>
>> I linked the missing files into the Package
>> (/./aoo/main/jurt/com/sun/star/uno) and
>>
>> added to the makefile:
>>
>> DEPEND=java$/com$/sun$/star
>>
>> $(CLASSDIR)$/$(PACKAGE)$/$(DEPEND)
>>
>>
>> I am now stuck with the Orbit Package, but I remeber I read something
>> about this somewhere.
>
>
> I had the same - not error but problem:
>
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step#Needed_packages
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
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Re: Error: -- Include file apr_version.mk, not found

[Phillip Rhodes]

Yesterday I discovered the --with-system-apr and
--with-system-apr-util arguments to configure, and had started a build
running overnight using those switches.  I just got home and found
that the build succeeded.

For the sake of completeness and understanding, I will svn up and try
another build now, that does not use those switches, and - if I'm
understanding correctly - will build APR as part of the AOO build.


Phil

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On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Phillip Rhodes
<motley.crue@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, cool.  I'll give it a try later this evening.  Thanks!
>
>
>
> Phil
>
> On Jan 3, 2017 1:05 PM, "Damjan Jovanovic" <dam...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I've now ported the entire ucb module to gbuild, and that apr/apr-util/serf
> version detection system has been rewritten.
>
> "svn update" and a clean rebuild should fix your problem.
>
> Damjan
>
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Phillip Rhodes <motley.crue@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Still trying to get AOO to build on Fedora 24 and this is what
>> I'm getting now.  Anybody have any thoughts on this one?
>>
>>
>>
>> Entering /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/
>> openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/hierarchy
>> Entering /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/
>> openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/ext
>> Entering /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/
>> openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/webdav
>> dmake:  makefile.mk:  line 64:  Error: -- Include file apr_version.mk,
>> not found
>>
>> 1 module(s):
>>ucb
>> need(s) to be rebuilt
>>
>> Reason(s):
>>
>> ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
>> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main
>> /ucb/source/ucp/webdav
>>
>> When you have fixed the errors in that module you can resume the build
>> by running:
>>
>>build --all:ucb
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
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>>
>>
>
>

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Re: Error: -- Include file apr_version.mk, not found

[Phillip Rhodes]

OK, cool.  I'll give it a try later this evening.  Thanks!



Phil

On Jan 3, 2017 1:05 PM, "Damjan Jovanovic" <dam...@apache.org> wrote:

I've now ported the entire ucb module to gbuild, and that apr/apr-util/serf
version detection system has been rewritten.

"svn update" and a clean rebuild should fix your problem.

Damjan

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Phillip Rhodes <motley.crue@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Still trying to get AOO to build on Fedora 24 and this is what
> I'm getting now.  Anybody have any thoughts on this one?
>
>
>
> Entering /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/
> openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/hierarchy
> Entering /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/
> openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/ext
> Entering /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/
> openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/webdav
> dmake:  makefile.mk:  line 64:  Error: -- Include file apr_version.mk,
> not found
>
> 1 module(s):
>ucb
> need(s) to be rebuilt
>
> Reason(s):
>
> ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main
> /ucb/source/ucp/webdav
>
> When you have fixed the errors in that module you can resume the build
> by running:
>
>build --all:ucb
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Phil
>
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>
>

Error: -- Include file apr_version.mk, not found

[Phillip Rhodes]

Still trying to get AOO to build on Fedora 24 and this is what
I'm getting now.  Anybody have any thoughts on this one?



Entering 
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/hierarchy
Entering 
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/ext
Entering 
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/ucb/source/ucp/webdav
dmake:  makefile.mk:  line 64:  Error: -- Include file apr_version.mk, not found

1 module(s):
   ucb
need(s) to be rebuilt

Reason(s):

ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main
/ucb/source/ucp/webdav

When you have fixed the errors in that module you can resume the build
by running:

   build --all:ucb



Cheers,


Phil

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Anybody else having trouble updating from SVN?

[Phillip Rhodes]

This just keeps getting better... I can't even do an svn up now.


Abranches/ia2/main/bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_linux_s390x
Abranches/ia2/main/bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_linux_s390x/makefile.mk
Abranches/ia2/main/bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_linux_s390x/share.hxx
Abranches/ia2/main/bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_linux_s390x/except.cxx
Abranches/ia2/main/bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_freebsd_intel
Abranches/ia2/main/bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_freebsd_intel/share.hxx
Abranches/ia2/main/bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_linux_arm/uno2cpp.cxx
Abranches/ia2/main/default_images/introabout/intro.png
svn: E120105: Error running context: The server sent an improper HTTP response


Anybody else seeing anything like this, or have any ideas what might
be going on?


Phil

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Ambari build error

[Phillip Rhodes]

Ambari crew:

I'm trying to build Ambari on Fedora 24, and am running into the following
error.   Hoping someone can help shed some light on what's going on.


[INFO] 
[INFO] BUILD FAILURE
[INFO] 
[INFO] Total time: 12.625 s
[INFO] Finished at: 2016-12-31T11:28:52-05:00
[INFO] Final Memory: 41M/1200M
[INFO] 
[ERROR] Failed to execute goal
org.codehaus.mojo:rpm-maven-plugin:2.0.1:rpm (default-cli) on project
ambari: RPM build execution return
ed: '1' executing '/bin/sh -c cd
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/ambari/ambari-git/target/rpm/ambari/SPECS
&& rp
mbuild -bb --buildroot
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/ambari/ambari-git/target/rpm/ambari/buildroot
--define '_
topdir 
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/ambari/ambari-git/target/rpm/ambari'
--target noarch-redhat-linux ambari.
spec' -> [Help 1]
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.LifecycleExecutionException: Failed to
execute goal org.codehaus.mojo:rpm-maven-plugin:2.0.1:rpm (default-cl
i) on project ambari: RPM build execution returned: '1' executing
'/bin/sh -c cd /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache
/ambari/ambari-git/target/rpm/ambari/SPECS && rpmbuild -bb --buildroot
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/ambari/am
bari-git/target/rpm/ambari/buildroot --define '_topdir
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/ambari/ambari-git/target/
rpm/ambari' --target noarch-redhat-linux ambari.spec'
   at 
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.internal.MojoExecutor.execute(MojoExecutor.java:212)
   at 
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.internal.MojoExecutor.execute(MojoExecutor.java:153)
   at 
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.internal.MojoExecutor.execute(MojoExecutor.java:145)
   at 
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.internal.LifecycleModuleBuilder.buildProject(LifecycleModuleBuilder.java:116)
   at 
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.internal.LifecycleModuleBuilder.buildProject(LifecycleModuleBuilder.java:80)
   at 
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.internal.builder.singlethreaded.SingleThreadedBuilder.build(SingleThreadedBuilder.java:51)
   at 
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.internal.LifecycleStarter.execute(LifecycleStarter.java:128)
   at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.doExecute(DefaultMaven.java:307)
   at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.doExecute(DefaultMaven.java:193)
   at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.execute(DefaultMaven.java:106)
   at org.apache.maven.cli.MavenCli.execute(MavenCli.java:863)
   at org.apache.maven.cli.MavenCli.doMain(MavenCli.java:288)
   at org.apache.maven.cli.MavenCli.main(MavenCli.java:199)
   at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
   at 
sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:62)
   at 
sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)
   at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:498)
   at 
org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.launcher.Launcher.launchEnhanced(Launcher.java:289)
   at 
org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.launcher.Launcher.launch(Launcher.java:229)
   at 
org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.launcher.Launcher.mainWithExitCode(Launcher.java:415)
   at 
org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.launcher.Launcher.main(Launcher.java:356)
Caused by: org.apache.maven.plugin.MojoExecutionException: RPM build
execution returned: '1' executing '/bin/sh -c cd /home/prhodes/dev
elopment/projects/upstream_oss/apache/ambari/ambari-git/target/rpm/ambari/SPECS
&& rpmbuild -bb --buildroot /home/prhodes/development/p
rojects/upstream_oss/apache/ambari/ambari-git/target/rpm/ambari/buildroot
--define '_topdir /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream
_oss/apache/ambari/ambari-git/target/rpm/ambari' --target
noarch-redhat-linux ambari.spec'
   at org.codehaus.mojo.rpm.RPMHelper.buildPackage(RPMHelper.java:150)
   at 
org.codehaus.mojo.rpm.AbstractRPMMojo.execute(AbstractRPMMojo.java:736)
   at 
org.apache.maven.plugin.DefaultBuildPluginManager.executeMojo(DefaultBuildPluginManager.java:134)
   at 
org.apache.maven.lifecycle.internal.MojoExecutor.execute(MojoExecutor.java:207)
   ... 20 more
[ERROR]
[ERROR]
[ERROR] For more information about the errors and possible solutions,
please read the following articles:
[ERROR] [Help 1]
http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/MojoExecutionException


I've tried running that rpm command manually, and when I do, it seems
to finish with no errors, but I get an empty rpm file.

Any idea what might be going on?


Thanks,


Phil

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Another AOO build error - packcomponents

[Phillip Rhodes]

Hey gang, my build is making it further now, but still fails with this bit
of weirdness.  Any ideas on this?



[prhodes@whiskey instsetoo_native]$ build --all:postprocess
build -- version: 1775979


=
Building module postprocess
=

Entering 
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/postprocess/packcomponents

dmake:  Error: --
`/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/solver/420/unxlngx6.pro/xml/cached1.component
' not found, and can't be made

1 module(s):
   postprocess
need(s) to be rebuilt

Reason(s):

ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/postprocess/packcomponents

When you have fixed the errors in that module you can resume the build
by running:

   build --all:postprocess




Phil

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Re: Problem building AOO on Fedora 24

[Phillip Rhodes]

Thanks Marcus. I think I've got it going now.  It seems that most of my problems
were because I grabbed the code from the Github mirror and not from
SVN.  Apparently the two are a little out of sync, because the build
never experienced
the problem with the gtest url or the bsh url after using the svn checkout.


Phil

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On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Marcus <marcus.m...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> Am 12/30/2016 05:06 AM, schrieb Phillip Rhodes:
>>
>> Never mind, I found the issue.  I had to install package
>> 'gdk-pixbuf2-xlib-devel.x86_64' for some reason.  After doing a dnf
>> install of that package
>> the configure script finishes OK now.
>
>
> I've described my build experience with Fedora 21. Maybe it's helpful also
> for you:
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step#Fedora_21
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>
>> On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Damjan Jovanovic<dam...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Please attach your config.log.
>>>
>>> Damjan
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Phillip
>>> Rhodes<motley.crue@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gang:
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to build on a Fedora 24 box and am running into an error I
>>>> haven't been
>>>> able to resolve. Any help is much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> When doing the ./configure step, I get this:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> checking which VCLplugs shall be built... gtk
>>>> checking whether to enable GConf support... yes
>>>> checking for GCONF... yes
>>>> checking whether to enable GNOME VFS support... yes
>>>> checking for GNOMEVFS... yes
>>>> checking for GTK... no
>>>> configure: error: requirements to build the gtk-plugin not met. Use
>>>> --disable-gtk or install the missing packages
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  From looking through the configure script, and some Googling, I get
>>>> the idea that it's looking for GTK+-2.0, but there are no packages
>>>> named like that in this version of Fedora.  I have the gtk2 and
>>>> gtk2-devel packages installed, but no joy.   Any ideas what causes
>>>> this, or how to fix it?
>
>
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Re: Missing files running bootstrap

[Phillip Rhodes]

OK, I tried the gtest file from GitHub and while the Bootstrap
finishes with no errors, the actual build fails on gtest later on.
However, I found an older thread on this subject and found that Andrea
uploaded the old file to OOO extras.   I'll switch my build to use
that, and hopefully all will be good.


Phil

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On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Phillip Rhodes
<motley.crue@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I have a different error now.  After running the configure script
> and sourcing the environment variables script, I try running ./bootstrap
> in the 'main' directory.  I get this:
>
> ignoring CoinMP-1.7.6.tgz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring crosextrafonts-carlito-20130920.tar.gz because its
> prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring gentiumbasic-fonts-1.10.zip because its prerequisites are not 
> fulfilled
> ignoring hyphen-2.7.1.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring hunspell-1.3.2.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring rhino1_7R3.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring nss-3.14.4-with-nspr-4.9.5.tar.gz because its prerequisites
> are not fulfilled
> ignoring LICENSE_source-9.0.0.7-bj.html because its prerequisites are
> not fulfilled
> ignoring README_source-9.0.0.7-bj.txt because its prerequisites are
> not fulfilled
> ignoring source-9.0.0.7-bj.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring README_silgraphite-2.3.1.txt because its prerequisites are
> not fulfilled
> ignoring silgraphite-2.3.1.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> downloading 2 missing tar balls to
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources
> downloading to 
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources/2d6ec8ccdf5c46b05ba54a9fd1d130d7-gtest-1.7
> .0.zip.part
> download from http://googletest.googlecode.com/files/gtest-1.7.0.zip
> failed (404 Not Found)
>download failed
> downloading to 
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources/ec1941a74d3ef513c4ce57a9092b74e1-bsh-2.0b5
> -src.zip.part
> download from 
> http://svn.codespot.com/a/apache-extras.org/beanshell/src_releases/bsh-2.0b5-src.zip
> failed (404 Not Found)
>download failed
> some needed files could not be downloaded! at
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/solenv/bin/downloa
> d_external_dependencies.pl line 492, <$in> line 343.
> *** Error downloading external dependencies, please fix the previous
> problems and try again ***
>
> The 404 errors suggest to me that those files simply are not available
> at the specified locations.  What should be done about that?
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

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Re: Missing files running bootstrap

[Phillip Rhodes]

OK, I updated the URL for that gtest library and got past that error.
On the beanshell thing, it seems that this URL:

http://svn.codespot.com/a/apache-extras.org/beanshell/src_releases/bsh-2.0b5-src.zip

is also no longer valid.  It seems to be a Google controlled domain
and all URl's on that domain return a 404.

This also seems to now live on Github instead, and after replacing the
URL with this one (and updating the MD5 hash) it seems to work.

https://github.com/beanshell/beanshell/releases/download/2.0b6/bsh-2.0b6-src.zip


Phil

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On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Phillip Rhodes
<motley.crue@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm... for gtest, it looks like the issue is that the Google Code repo
> now just redirects to GitHub so the old URL is no longer valid.  Is
> the file that we were pulling down a src bundle?  If so, it looks like
> we could probably just switch that URL to
>
> https://github.com/google/googletest/archive/release-1.7.0.zip
>
>
> Phil
>
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Phillip Rhodes
> <motley.crue@gmail.com> wrote:
>> OK, I have a different error now.  After running the configure script
>> and sourcing the environment variables script, I try running ./bootstrap
>> in the 'main' directory.  I get this:
>>
>> ignoring CoinMP-1.7.6.tgz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
>> ignoring crosextrafonts-carlito-20130920.tar.gz because its
>> prerequisites are not fulfilled
>> ignoring gentiumbasic-fonts-1.10.zip because its prerequisites are not 
>> fulfilled
>> ignoring hyphen-2.7.1.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
>> ignoring hunspell-1.3.2.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
>> ignoring rhino1_7R3.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
>> ignoring nss-3.14.4-with-nspr-4.9.5.tar.gz because its prerequisites
>> are not fulfilled
>> ignoring LICENSE_source-9.0.0.7-bj.html because its prerequisites are
>> not fulfilled
>> ignoring README_source-9.0.0.7-bj.txt because its prerequisites are
>> not fulfilled
>> ignoring source-9.0.0.7-bj.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
>> ignoring README_silgraphite-2.3.1.txt because its prerequisites are
>> not fulfilled
>> ignoring silgraphite-2.3.1.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
>> downloading 2 missing tar balls to
>> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources
>> downloading to 
>> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources/2d6ec8ccdf5c46b05ba54a9fd1d130d7-gtest-1.7
>> .0.zip.part
>> download from http://googletest.googlecode.com/files/gtest-1.7.0.zip
>> failed (404 Not Found)
>>download failed
>> downloading to 
>> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources/ec1941a74d3ef513c4ce57a9092b74e1-bsh-2.0b5
>> -src.zip.part
>> download from 
>> http://svn.codespot.com/a/apache-extras.org/beanshell/src_releases/bsh-2.0b5-src.zip
>> failed (404 Not Found)
>>download failed
>> some needed files could not be downloaded! at
>> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/solenv/bin/downloa
>> d_external_dependencies.pl line 492, <$in> line 343.
>> *** Error downloading external dependencies, please fix the previous
>> problems and try again ***
>>
>> The 404 errors suggest to me that those files simply are not available
>> at the specified locations.  What should be done about that?
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

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Missing files running bootstrap

[Phillip Rhodes]

OK, I have a different error now.  After running the configure script
and sourcing the environment variables script, I try running ./bootstrap
in the 'main' directory.  I get this:

ignoring CoinMP-1.7.6.tgz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
ignoring crosextrafonts-carlito-20130920.tar.gz because its
prerequisites are not fulfilled
ignoring gentiumbasic-fonts-1.10.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
ignoring hyphen-2.7.1.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
ignoring hunspell-1.3.2.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
ignoring rhino1_7R3.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
ignoring nss-3.14.4-with-nspr-4.9.5.tar.gz because its prerequisites
are not fulfilled
ignoring LICENSE_source-9.0.0.7-bj.html because its prerequisites are
not fulfilled
ignoring README_source-9.0.0.7-bj.txt because its prerequisites are
not fulfilled
ignoring source-9.0.0.7-bj.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
ignoring README_silgraphite-2.3.1.txt because its prerequisites are
not fulfilled
ignoring silgraphite-2.3.1.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
downloading 2 missing tar balls to
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources
downloading to 
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources/2d6ec8ccdf5c46b05ba54a9fd1d130d7-gtest-1.7
.0.zip.part
download from http://googletest.googlecode.com/files/gtest-1.7.0.zip
failed (404 Not Found)
   download failed
downloading to 
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources/ec1941a74d3ef513c4ce57a9092b74e1-bsh-2.0b5
-src.zip.part
download from 
http://svn.codespot.com/a/apache-extras.org/beanshell/src_releases/bsh-2.0b5-src.zip
failed (404 Not Found)
   download failed
some needed files could not be downloaded! at
/home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/solenv/bin/downloa
d_external_dependencies.pl line 492, <$in> line 343.
*** Error downloading external dependencies, please fix the previous
problems and try again ***

The 404 errors suggest to me that those files simply are not available
at the specified locations.  What should be done about that?


Phil



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Re: Missing files running bootstrap

[Phillip Rhodes]

Hmm... for gtest, it looks like the issue is that the Google Code repo
now just redirects to GitHub so the old URL is no longer valid.  Is
the file that we were pulling down a src bundle?  If so, it looks like
we could probably just switch that URL to

https://github.com/google/googletest/archive/release-1.7.0.zip


Phil

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On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Phillip Rhodes
<motley.crue@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I have a different error now.  After running the configure script
> and sourcing the environment variables script, I try running ./bootstrap
> in the 'main' directory.  I get this:
>
> ignoring CoinMP-1.7.6.tgz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring crosextrafonts-carlito-20130920.tar.gz because its
> prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring gentiumbasic-fonts-1.10.zip because its prerequisites are not 
> fulfilled
> ignoring hyphen-2.7.1.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring hunspell-1.3.2.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring rhino1_7R3.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring nss-3.14.4-with-nspr-4.9.5.tar.gz because its prerequisites
> are not fulfilled
> ignoring LICENSE_source-9.0.0.7-bj.html because its prerequisites are
> not fulfilled
> ignoring README_source-9.0.0.7-bj.txt because its prerequisites are
> not fulfilled
> ignoring source-9.0.0.7-bj.zip because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> ignoring README_silgraphite-2.3.1.txt because its prerequisites are
> not fulfilled
> ignoring silgraphite-2.3.1.tar.gz because its prerequisites are not fulfilled
> downloading 2 missing tar balls to
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources
> downloading to 
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources/2d6ec8ccdf5c46b05ba54a9fd1d130d7-gtest-1.7
> .0.zip.part
> download from http://googletest.googlecode.com/files/gtest-1.7.0.zip
> failed (404 Not Found)
>download failed
> downloading to 
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/ext_sources/ec1941a74d3ef513c4ce57a9092b74e1-bsh-2.0b5
> -src.zip.part
> download from 
> http://svn.codespot.com/a/apache-extras.org/beanshell/src_releases/bsh-2.0b5-src.zip
> failed (404 Not Found)
>download failed
> some needed files could not be downloaded! at
> /home/prhodes/development/projects/upstream_oss/apache/openoffice/main/solenv/bin/downloa
> d_external_dependencies.pl line 492, <$in> line 343.
> *** Error downloading external dependencies, please fix the previous
> problems and try again ***
>
> The 404 errors suggest to me that those files simply are not available
> at the specified locations.  What should be done about that?
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

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Re: Problem building AOO on Fedora 24

[Phillip Rhodes]

Never mind, I found the issue.  I had to install package
'gdk-pixbuf2-xlib-devel.x86_64' for some reason.  After doing a dnf
install of that package
the configure script finishes OK now.


Phil

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On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Damjan Jovanovic <dam...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Please attach your config.log.
>
> Damjan
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Phillip Rhodes <motley.crue@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Gang:
>>
>> I'm trying to build on a Fedora 24 box and am running into an error I
>> haven't been
>> able to resolve. Any help is much appreciated.
>>
>> When doing the ./configure step, I get this:
>>
>> 
>> checking which VCLplugs shall be built... gtk
>> checking whether to enable GConf support... yes
>> checking for GCONF... yes
>> checking whether to enable GNOME VFS support... yes
>> checking for GNOMEVFS... yes
>> checking for GTK... no
>> configure: error: requirements to build the gtk-plugin not met. Use
>> --disable-gtk or install the missing packages
>>
>>
>> From looking through the configure script, and some Googling, I get
>> the idea that it's looking for GTK+-2.0, but there are no packages
>> named like that in this version of Fedora.  I have the gtk2 and
>> gtk2-devel packages installed, but no joy.   Any ideas what causes
>> this, or how to fix it?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Phil
>> ~~~
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
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>>
>>

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Problem building AOO on Fedora 24

[Phillip Rhodes]

Gang:

I'm trying to build on a Fedora 24 box and am running into an error I
haven't been
able to resolve. Any help is much appreciated.

When doing the ./configure step, I get this:


checking which VCLplugs shall be built... gtk
checking whether to enable GConf support... yes
checking for GCONF... yes
checking whether to enable GNOME VFS support... yes
checking for GNOMEVFS... yes
checking for GTK... no
configure: error: requirements to build the gtk-plugin not met. Use
--disable-gtk or install the missing packages


>From looking through the configure script, and some Googling, I get
the idea that it's looking for GTK+-2.0, but there are no packages
named like that in this version of Fedora.  I have the gtk2 and
gtk2-devel packages installed, but no joy.   Any ideas what causes
this, or how to fix it?


Thanks,


Phil
~~~
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Re: 4.1.4 Release Manager?

[Phillip Rhodes]

I like this idea... 4.1.3 and 4.1.4 in the near-term, and then 4.2.0 in
early 2017.  Feels like a good rhythm to aim for.

Phil

On Sep 15, 2016 15:14, "Marcus"  wrote:

> Am 09/15/2016 05:44 PM, schrieb Pedro Giffuni:
>
>> I am rather amazed by the idea of 4.1.4, shouldn't we release
>> 4.2.0 instead? I mean ...
>>
>> - I thought the idea behind 4.1.3 was to make a quick fix for
>> 4.1.2 and to give more time for the 4.2.0 release process.
>> - the code in trunk has over two years of development and is
>> more secure than what lives in the 41* branch. It is rather
>> disappointing to not see the code out sooner.
>>
>> I believe you should continue as Release Manager for 4.1.4,
>> or 4.2.0; the changes for 4.1.3 will already have to be
>> included in future releases and we could benefit from the
>> momentum of the dot release. Your vacations should also
>> not be a problem as other people are likely to be in
>> vacations during December as well.
>>
>
> I still think we should put more QA effort into a 4.2.0 as we have changed
> to many things. I cannot remember anymore which libraryies we have changed
> in the last time. So, at least this is a risk in my eyes that deserves much
> more attention.
>
> Up to now I think tests where done here and there, e.g., when using a
> 4.2.0 dev build for daily tasks. But I would like to see more efforts for
> deeper tests before release this.
>
> So, a fast 4.1.3 and a 4.1.4 still this year *and* then a 4.2.0 for the
> beginning of next year (new year, new game ;-) ) would be a nice outlook.
> And as an additional advantage - when we agree on this - this roadmap that
> can be published, too. *)
>
> However, my 2ct.
>
>
>
> *) Just a note for everyone:
> Discussing a topic here on a public mailing list does *not* mean that it
> is automatically published.
>
> It's the result of a discussion that can be declared published (here on
> this mailing list) or made published (e.g., with a blog post). I think I'm
> not the only one who makes a fine but clear difference bewteen "something
> is public" and "something is published". Just wanted to mention this. ;-)
>
> Marcus
>
>
> -
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>
>

Re: [VOTE] Recommend Marcus Lange (marcus) as the New Vice President for Apache OpenOffice

[Phillip Rhodes]

>
>
>  [X] +1 Approve
>  [  ]  0 Abstain
>  [  ] -1 Disapprove, with explanation
>


Phil

Re: Differentiate or Die

[Phillip Rhodes]

Sure, I don't claim it's a perfect analogy between "their" world and the
world of F/OSS.
But I think the broad point generalizes well enough to apply to us:

Have *some* differentiating factor that defines why a group of people would
find your
product more desirable than the other options.

If, for us, that is "it's almost like MS Office, but free" and we're good
with that, then that's
cool.  But I kinda think we ought to stretch for something a little more
specific, especially
given that "almost like MS Office, but free" isn't a unique position.

And I'm not proposing any big, elaborate "process" or suggesting we
radically change
directions (unless we want too!) but rather just saying we could/should
spend some
time thinking about what makes AOO special.


Phil


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On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:

>
> > From: Pedro Giffuni [mailto:p...@apache.org]
>
> > The thing about so-called "marketing gurus" is that their assumptions
> > about how the markets work may break down when we are talking about
> > software that has zero cost.
> >
> > I will simplify the marketing issue making a bold statement: "We have
> > millions of users because we do 80% of what the market leader
> > does but
> > with 0% of the price."
>
>
> No, the success of free software is not a question of price.
>
> The development model of free software is something else, but it's not
> free. That is not the goal.
>
> read:
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.en.html
>
> Furthermore:
> The development and use of OpenOffice is not free, because developers have
> to be paid by their companies or donate their own time. Users have cost for
> installation, maintenance and staff training.
>
> The work of Apache is also not free, because Apache needs donations to be
> able to work.
>
> For example see:
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
>
> on:
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.html
>
> you can see that the sum of the sponsorship is (currently, per year):
>
> Platinum: 700,000$
> Gold: 320,000$
> Silver: 260,000$
> Bronze: 90,000$
>
>
>
> Jörg
>
>
> -
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>
>

Re: Release process and 4.1.3

[Phillip Rhodes]

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> We also need something far, far more agile for getting simple bug fix
> releases out quickly and easily. I propose using 4.1.3 as a test case for a
> stripped down process.
>

+1


Phil
~~
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Another LWN article

[Phillip Rhodes]

https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/699755/533f89639e8b53f0/

and the associated HN discussion, although I'm the only
commenter there as I type this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12456071


Phil
~~~
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Consolidating all the build guides

[Phillip Rhodes]

+1


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On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> Marcus wrote:
>
>> As I have now some experience on building OpenOffice, I've also seen
>> that there are alot of wikipages that describe to some degree of detail
>> how to build.
>>
>
> The most important fix would be to annotate all outdated ones properly.
> Search engines apparently love our outdated content and we've seen examples
> on this list recently too.
>
> I would like to consolidate them into a one or maybe very few:
>> 1. Search for everything that's available.
>> 2. Cluster the pages that are duplicates or similar.
>> 3. Combine the content with moving, merging, rearranging, deleting.
>> 4. Finally, we have one or a few references everyone can save as
>> browser bookmarks.
>>
>
> The only browser bookmark should be
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
> and the rest should be easily reachable from there.
>
> It's really hidden in a good way as I havn't found it again. Where are
>> the configure options for the official releases we have done so far?
>>
>
> I've apparently hidden it very well! I had to send the link a dozen times
> to this list. Here it is again:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/
>
> (it's best to use it as a link in the build-related wiki pages).
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
>
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>
>

Re: Release manager for 4.1.3

[Phillip Rhodes]

That's great news.  Thank you so much!


Phil


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On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> I am volunteering to serve as release manager for 4.1.3. I may go on to be
> RM for 4.2, but we can see about that later.
>
> My objective is to complete 4.1.3 in November. If I succeed there will be
> no problem. However, the project should be aware that I have a vacation
> booked in England mid-December through early January.
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>
>

Re: The AOO build system

[Phillip Rhodes]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pesce...@apache.org> wrote:

> Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>>
>> 1. What is the main problem with the build system as it is?
>>
>
> It's ugly. I recall you once built OpenOffice, right? It is not the easy
> configure + make. Still, it works and the build system is not standing in
> the way for a release.


OK, that's good to know.  I got the impression from some earlier
discussions that it was somehow a major sticking point in terms of getting
releases out and what-not.  Good to see that that's not the case.



> 2. Do we need a whole new system, or just incremental improvements to
>> what we have?
>>
>
> In 4.2.0 we have merged significant improvements. What we have is enough
> for the time being.


Cool.


3. Regarding Mac in particular, I'll repeat this question from an earlier
>> thread:  Does the ASF have Mac hardware for doing Mac builds, or are we
>> dependent solely on developer machines for that?
>>
>
> All OpenOffice releases have always been built on machines under control
> of individual developers.



Ah, OK.  Is that the desired state of affairs? Or would there be any
impetus to try to get dedicated build machines that are hosted somewhere
and used for the binary builds?



>
>
> 5. Other than Mac builds, are any other platforms especially limited or
>> restricted in any way?
>>
>
> Our reference environments are described at http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/o
> penoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/ ; the build system itself is not
> a huge obstacle. I concede that a newcomer will find it hard, but you
> mastered it, so you are one of the few who actually know whether it is too
> hard.
>

As I recall, running an AOO build (on Linux) wasn't exactly trivial, but it
wasn't mind numbingly difficult either.  The big hold up I ran into was
that there was some bug or other back then, that was blocking things up.
IIRC, there was already a known work-around / fix for that, so hopefully
that has been incorporated by now.




> 6. Do we still build for OS/2? :-)
>>
>
> We don't support it officially. Volunteers do it as a third-party port but
> they do contribute code to the project, so for example 4.1.2 saw a number
> of changes that were meant to make the OS/2 build possible.


Cool. I haven't used it in over a decade, but I still have a soft-spot for
OS/2.  :-)


Phil

Re: Starting Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice Module

[Phillip Rhodes]

Welcome to the project, Ed.  Don't sweat the lack of C++ experience.  Not
everything is in C++, and
you can pick up the C++ knowledge as you go.  I'm in a little bit of the
same boat, as I *was* a C++
programmer - about 15 years ago.   It's been quite a while for me, so I'm
going to have to basically
relearn C++ to get into AOO development.  But hey, it'll be a fun
experience in it's own right anyway!

As to the rest of your questions, I'll defer to other more experienced
members of the project to offer
their commentary.


Cheers,


Phil

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On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 10:25 PM, Ed Fallin  wrote:

> Hello there —
>
> Having read an article in Ars about your difficulties keeping a large
> group on the project, I’d like to join.  It looks like you have a C++ code
> base, whereas my experience is primarily in C#.  I have touched on and read
> upon C++ though.  My day job is a dev in a C# base, and I’m doing some of
> my own stuff in that technology of an evening, primarily web-facing with an
> emphasis on using abstraction and design to enhance feature sets with fewer
> lines of code.  I’ve been programming professionally for about 5 years, I
> follow the principles of clean code and TDD in my work.
>
> I’m located in California, SoCal to be specific.
>
> C# notwithstanding, if you’d value my joining your work, I’d like to do a
> little bit here and there at first to get solid in C++, avoiding memory
> leaks and so on (if those are still an issue — is there a GC now?), perhaps
> with let’s say "enhanced review” from a tolerant mentor.  As time goes by I
> could address bigger topics with minimal support.
>
> Is this reasonable?  Helpful?
>
> Someone please let me know!
>
> — Ed Fallin
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: The AOO build system

[Phillip Rhodes]

I was actually (mostly) joking about the OS/2 thing.  Not that I wasn't a
raving OS/2 fan up until about 2000.  But for AOO, I think the answers to
the other five questions are more important at the moment.  Does anybody
have any commentary on those topics?


Thanks,


Phil


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On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Marcus <marcus.m...@wtnet.de> wrote:

> Am 09/02/2016 09:24 PM, schrieb Fernando Cassia:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Phillip Rhodes<motley.crue@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 6. Do we still build for OS/2? :-)  (Sorry, I'm sentimental old fool).
>>>
>>
> please have a look here [1] and here [2] for newer OS/2 builds that are
> indeed not part of AOO but offered by volunteers.
>
> [1] http://www.openoffice.org/porting/index.html
> [2] http://www.bitwiseworks.com/press/20151218.php
>
> Marcus
>
> The OO.o OS/2 builds have ALWAYS been done by OS/2 enthusiasts, not the
>> main project (not OO.o nor AOO).
>> The last "officially supported" release done for OS/2 was StarOffice 5.1a
>> back in the Sun days and before OO.o AFAIR
>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Marcus  wrote:
>
>
>> The bad things are:
> - we need a release manager for a 4.2.0 or 4.1.3 version.
> - we need hardware to get builds for Wndows, Linux and Mac.
> - we need a possibility to build on Mac (buildbot or an individual
>   machine)
> - we need people who can help with build problems on Windows and Mac
> - and we need new devs in general
>
>
OK, something I've never been clear on.  Does the ASF Infrastructure team
provide machines to build
on, or is it entirely up to us to get builds built "however"?  If the
former, is there something we need from them today that we don't have?  If
the latter, could this project acquire hardware and have it put in a colo
center or something, so
we have access to what we need?  Or can we rent time in a cloud environment
somewhere?

Sorry for all the uninformed questions, I've just been really out of the
loop for a while.  :-(




> And the best thing is:
> We have already enough food for a new release (many bugfixes, improved
> functions, new translations). We just need to bring this onto the road.
>
> Radical!  Well that's something to be cheerful about anyway.



> This fight you cannot win with words. You can convince the people only
> with doings. And in our standoff we need hard doings.  With a big porton of
> sarcasm. I'm sorry for that. But it's hard to come home from work, find my
> inbox exploded and read about a good friend who has left the project due to
> this b**hit which is going on at the moment. ;-(
>
>
> Understood.  No need to apologize for anything.



Phil
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you
> need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related
> projects like LibreOffice cannot?
>

That's a good question.  The one obvious thing, which matters to some
people, but not others, is "be licensed under the ALv2".

>From a feature standpoint, I don't think there is anything we can do that
somebody else couldn't do - in principle.   However, different projects can
evolve in different directions based on the choices made by the
developers.  What I'd like to see AOO do a bit (and I hope to help with
some of this) is to develop tighter integration with the "big data" world,
which largely revolves around the ASF anyway.  This obviously applies
mainly to Calc.  But there, I'd like to see easier and more direct ways to
share data between Calc and, say, a Spark cluster, or Impala, etc.   I'd
also like to see more in the way of accessing external API's and using 3rd
party languages like R.  Integration with Arrow is something that could be
interesting.   And something that was talked about a while back, but I
think went largely unfulfilled, was the idea of adding more "social"
integration into AOO.  I'd still like to see us do some things there.

Now if any of that came to fruition, it's possible that other projects like
LO might simply choose to integrate those features into their codebase
(which they're welcome to do).  But maybe they'll decide their interests
are elsewhere and choose not to.  Who knows?


Phil

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

Doing some reading, it looks like it may indeed be possible to run OS X on
VirtualBox at least under Windows (not sure about Linux).   If so, I might
be willing to spend some money on an EC2 instance to do Mac builds,
especially if it doesn't need to be up 24x7.

Question:  Does the ASF have any Mac hardware for doing Mac builds?  Or is
everything Mac related left to being done on individual developer machines?


Phil


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On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:

> I understand your problem. Until now, I have only owned one Apple desktop,
> the Apple II I bought in 1980. I took a dislike to Macs the first time I
> tried one.
>
>
> On 9/2/2016 10:32 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> No doubt.  My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and
>> everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden
>> ecosystem.  I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to
>> help
>> with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to
>> spend.
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac
>>>> Mini
>>>>
>>>>> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is
>>>>> less
>>>>> than 10 months of macincloud.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so
>>>> in
>>>> a
>>>> reasonable period of time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I
>>> were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with
>>> more
>>> cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

No doubt.  My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and
everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden
ecosystem.  I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to help
with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to
spend.


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
>>> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is
>>> less
>>> than 10 months of macincloud.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in
>> a
>> reasonable period of time?
>>
>
> I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I
> were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with more
> cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less
> than 10 months of macincloud.



Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a
reasonable period of time?


Phil

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
another
OS do they?


Phil


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On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:

> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>
> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>
> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
>> hardware
>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>
>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>
>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>
>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <toki.kant...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>>>
>>>
>>> On your own hardware:
>>>
>>> Repeat:
>>>Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>>>Fix the error messages you get;
>>>Write notes about what you did;
>>>Test the program functionality;
>>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>>
>>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>>
>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>>>>
>>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>>
>>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>>
>>> jonathon
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
hardware
is PC based, running Linux.

I wonder if it would work to use something like this:

http://www.macincloud.com/

Anybody have any experience with something like that?


Phil


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On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <toki.kant...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
> > What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>
> On your own hardware:
>
> Repeat:
>Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>Fix the error messages you get;
>Write notes about what you did;
>Test the program functionality;
> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>
> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>
> > How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>
> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>
> jonathon
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
project to
continue moving forward.

What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we could
be
working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
direction?

How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
 etc...


Phil
~~~
This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Phillip Rhodes]

>
>
> What alternative do you see?
>
>
>
There's no particular reason that I can see, that AOO shouldn't be able to
produce secure software, issue releases and
do all of those other things.  We've done it in the past (and yeah, I feel
guilty about saying "we" since I haven't been very active. Mea culpa), and
it's not like the project caught bubonic plague or something.  Yeah, I know
a lot of people prefer to contribute to LO and not AOO, and that losing the
people IBM was paying was a big hit.   But I can't help but think there's a
way to get more people involved and contributing here.  So I'd rather see
discussion around "how do we attract additional
contributors (or fix whatever other problems we have)?"  than talk about a
"retirement plan."  I really do think that if people start putting a lot of
energy into that, it will rob even more energy from the project.

Or maybe there are other options that could be considered, even if only as
interim steps.  Somebody mentioned something about a problem making Mac
releases. OK fine, let's drop Mac support for now.  Maybe that frees up
some energy for other things.  OK, radical suggestion and probably won't be
met with a lot of support, but the point is to say, let's think outside the
box a little and see if there are some other ideas we could adopt.



Phil

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Phillip Rhodes]

> (3) I think that working towards being able to release rather than patch
> as Patricia has suggested is our best way to solve the security issue. The
> quick patch is not much faster and has been proven to be more of a
> challenge then kick starting the broken build process.
>


Forgive me for being a little behind.  What is broken in the build process?
Technical problem, or process issue, or other or what?


Phil

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Phillip Rhodes]

Wow, just wow.  I have to say, I think even broaching this topic is a
mistake.  "Self-fulfilling prophecy"? Not even that, it'll be a "3rd party
fulfilling prophecy" as soon as this hits the press.  There are a lot of
people out there who seem to have it in for AOO and have for a while... now
you *know* there will be a headline appearing in the next week, reading
"Apache OpenOffice Mulls Retirement" or "AOO Begins To Wind Down", etc.
Yeah, it's crappy journalism, but it's almost 100% certain to happen.  And
that's just going to dampen enthusiasm even more.

I wish I could say I had a magic bullet of an answer for how to get things
moving again, but I don't.  But I don't think opening a discussion about
retirement and giving AOO's enemies more ammunition is a strong tactical
move.


Phil


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On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 7:37 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton 
wrote:

> Here is what a careful retirement of Apache OpenOffice could look like.
>
>   A. PERSPECTIVE
>   B. WHAT RETIREMENT COULD LOOK LIKE
>  1. Code Base
>  2. Downloads
>  3. Development Support
>  4. Public-Project Community Interfaces
>  5. Social Media Presence
>  6. Project Management Committee
>  7. Branding
>
> A. PERSPECTIVE
>
> I have regularly observed that the Apache OpenOffice project has limited
> capacity for sustaining the project in an energetic manner.  It is also my
> considered opinion that there is no ready supply of developers who have the
> capacity, capability, and will to supplement the roughly half-dozen
> volunteers holding the project together.  It doesn't matter what the
> reasons for that might be.
>
> The Apache Project Maturity Model,
> ,
> identifies the characteristics for which an Apache project is expected to
> strive.
>
> Recently, some elements have been brought into serious question:
>
>  QU20: The project puts a very high priority on producing secure software.
>  QU50: The project strives to respond to documented bug reports in a
> timely manner.
>
> There is also a litmus test which is kind of a red line.  That is for the
> project to have a PMC capable of producing releases.  That means that there
> are at least three available PMC members capable of building a functioning
> binary from a release-candidate archive, and who do so in providing binding
> votes to approve the release of that code.
>
> In the case of Apache OpenOffice, needing to disclose security
> vulnerabilities for which there is no mitigation in an update has become a
> serious issue.
>
> In responses to concerns raised in June, the PMC is currently tasked by
> the ASF Board to account for this inability and to provide a remedy.  An
> indicator of the seriousness of the Board's concern is the PMC been
> requested to report to the Board every month, starting in August, rather
> than quarterly, the normal case.  One option for remedy that must be
> considered is retirement of the project.  The request is for the PMC's
> consideration among other possible options.  The Board has not ordered a
> solution.
>
> I cannot prediction how this will all work out.  It is remiss of me not to
> point out that retirement of the project is a serious possibility.
>
> There are those who fear that discussing retirement can become a
> self-fulfilling prophecy.  My concern is that the project could end with a
> bang or a whimper.  My interest is in seeing any retirement happen
> gracefully.  That means we need to consider it as a contingency.  For
> contingency plans, no time is a good time, but earlier is always better
> than later.
>
>
> B. WHAT RETIREMENT COULD LOOK LIKE
>
> Here is a provisional list of all elements that would have to be
> addressed, over a period of time, as part of any retirement effort.
>
> In order to understand what would have had to happen in a graceful
> process, the assumption below is that the project has already retired.
>
> Requests for additions and adjustments to this compilation are welcome.
>
>  1. CODE BASE
>
> 1.1 The Apache OpenOffice Subversion repository where code is
> maintained has been moved to "The Attic."  Apache Attic is an actual
> project, .  The source code would remain
> available and could be checked-out from Subversion by anyone interested in
> making use of it.  There is no means of committing changes.
>
> 1.2 Apache Externals/Extras consists of external libraries that are
> relied upon by the source code but are not part of the source code.  These
> were housed on SourceForge and elsewhere.  (a) They might have been
> archived in conjunction with the SVN (1.1).  (b) They might be identified
> in a way that someone attempting to build from source later on would be
> able to work with later versions of the external 

Re: Merge with LibreOffice?

[Phillip Rhodes]

This isn't a competition to be "won" or "lost".  AOO and LO aren't really
competing.
AOO is for people who want an awesome office suite that's licensed under
a permissive license.  LO is for people who want the same under a copyleft
license.   Two different audiences, two different projects.

Personally I think it would be ideal if the two projects could/would freely
share code, but due to the license conflict, AOO can't reuse code
from LO unless the author(s) is/are willing to also license it under the
ALv2.  My understanding is that most LO contributors aren't willing to do
so.
OTOH, they can freely use contributions made to AOO, which is a slight
advantage to them.

All of that said, I wish people would just forget the bickering between the
two
projects, and try to find ways to work together cooperatively.  Personally
I don't give
 two shits about the history of LO/AOO, the fork, any controversy involving
Sun, Oracle, StarOffice, etc.  I just want awesome F/OSS software.  And
as far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier.


Phil


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On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Wolf Halton  wrote:

> I think OpenOffice has the larger install base even if LO has much of the
> Linux desktop distro installs.
> AOO is still attracting developers and other project members.
> There may be a finite audience for office suites, but it is a very large
> audience.
>
> Wolf Halton
> Mobile/Text 678-687-6104
>
> --
> Sent from my iPhone. Creative word completion courtesy of Apple, Inc.
>
> > On Aug 3, 2016, at 14:02, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >> Regardless of why or how,
> >> when it comes to development, it's clear that LO has won.
> >
> > LO is only a fork. OO is the original and will always be the original.
> That's the fact.
> >
> >> What are your views on this?
> >
> > LO is the fork, not OpenOffice.
> >
> > We should never forget how members of TDF have members of Apache
> OpenOffice attacked with words. We should never forget what lies were
> spread about OpenOffice so that LO is better off.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gretings.
> > Jörg
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>

Re: Wrongful information on the Wikipedia

[Phillip Rhodes]

All of the above said, maybe we should drop this whole discussion, and let
David have his way, and focus on getting a 4.1.2 release out the door. That
should settle the issue, and shipping code is more important than Wikipedia
anyway, right?

So, what can I do to help with 4.1.2?


Phil


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On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Phillip Rhodes <motley.crue@gmail.com>
wrote:

> David, this has nothing to do with marketing, and I honestly feel like you
> are the one acting in bad faith here.  This is about Wikipedia being
> accurate, and the simple truth is, on a question like "what's the status of
> AOO" none of your "sources" are more accurate than a primary source like
> the internal project timeline / roadmap that I cited.
>
> If you have a grudge against AOO for some reason that's fine, I don't give
> a flying fuck and I doubt anybody else does either.  But Wikipedia is not
> the place for you to further some personal vendetta.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:25 AM, David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 21:27:53 GMT, Rob Weir <r...@robweir.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Last word, in case the inference is unclear.   We're dealing with a
>> > sophisticated serial infringer on Wikipedia.  Correcting erroneous
>> > information, which is proper to do, is unlikely to be achieved via an
>> > edit war.  Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.   Any progress would
>> > only be made by showing Mr. Gerard's own conflict  and his bad will
>> > (not hard to do),  and escalating it within the the formal Wikipedia
>> > appeals process, patiently dealing with the ministerial types to whom
>> > bureaucratic process is dear.  Since Dennis does not want to discuss
>> > this on the list, feel free to contact me offline if anyone wishes to
>> > discuss this further.
>>
>>
>> When you're putting together a plan for marketing efforts concerning a
>> Wikipedia article, it may help if you don't leave prima facie evidence
>> of your coordinated effort on a public mailing list.
>>
>> Editing with a conflict of interest is not specifically disallowed by
>> Wikipedia policies, but ideally it should be avoided. Note example on
>> the talk page, where a list participant properly noted his involvement
>> when this was brought to his attention.
>>
>> Relevant guideline:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest
>>
>> You should note also that a "conflict of interest" does not mean a
>> differing opinion, and also that improperly founded accusations of COI
>> are held to constitute personal attacks and should ideally be avoided.
>>
>> There are those (e.g. Jimmy Wales) who believe public relations
>> efforts on Wikipedia should work to the "bright line" standard, where
>> you don't go near the article at all, and certainly don't try to
>> coordinate an off-site attack on a Wikipedia contributor because you
>> believe they are not helping your marketing. This is something the
>> project, and the Foundation in general, should probably consider.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>

Re: Wrongful information on the Wikipedia

[Phillip Rhodes]

David, this has nothing to do with marketing, and I honestly feel like you
are the one acting in bad faith here.  This is about Wikipedia being
accurate, and the simple truth is, on a question like "what's the status of
AOO" none of your "sources" are more accurate than a primary source like
the internal project timeline / roadmap that I cited.

If you have a grudge against AOO for some reason that's fine, I don't give
a flying fuck and I doubt anybody else does either.  But Wikipedia is not
the place for you to further some personal vendetta.


Phil


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On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:25 AM, David Gerard  wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 21:27:53 GMT, Rob Weir  wrote:
>
> > Last word, in case the inference is unclear.   We're dealing with a
> > sophisticated serial infringer on Wikipedia.  Correcting erroneous
> > information, which is proper to do, is unlikely to be achieved via an
> > edit war.  Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.   Any progress would
> > only be made by showing Mr. Gerard's own conflict  and his bad will
> > (not hard to do),  and escalating it within the the formal Wikipedia
> > appeals process, patiently dealing with the ministerial types to whom
> > bureaucratic process is dear.  Since Dennis does not want to discuss
> > this on the list, feel free to contact me offline if anyone wishes to
> > discuss this further.
>
>
> When you're putting together a plan for marketing efforts concerning a
> Wikipedia article, it may help if you don't leave prima facie evidence
> of your coordinated effort on a public mailing list.
>
> Editing with a conflict of interest is not specifically disallowed by
> Wikipedia policies, but ideally it should be avoided. Note example on
> the talk page, where a list participant properly noted his involvement
> when this was brought to his attention.
>
> Relevant guideline:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest
>
> You should note also that a "conflict of interest" does not mean a
> differing opinion, and also that improperly founded accusations of COI
> are held to constitute personal attacks and should ideally be avoided.
>
> There are those (e.g. Jimmy Wales) who believe public relations
> efforts on Wikipedia should work to the "bright line" standard, where
> you don't go near the article at all, and certainly don't try to
> coordinate an off-site attack on a Wikipedia contributor because you
> believe they are not helping your marketing. This is something the
> project, and the Foundation in general, should probably consider.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> - d.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Wrongful information on the Wikipedia

[Phillip Rhodes]

"Moribund" is a goofy word that almost nobody uses in conversation, but
it's probably more accurate than "dormant".   I've spent enough time
goofing around on Wikipedia lately, so, for myself, I'm quite happy to
leave it as is, until the 4.1.2 release comes out.  At that point, I think
it's clear that it should then be made "Active".

*shrug*


Phil

This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Donald Whytock <dwhyt...@apache.org>
wrote:

> There was a minor skirmish last week over it.  Looks like there'll be one
> this week too...someone changed it to "moribund".
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Phillip Rhodes <motley.crue@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, I missed the infobox when I looked at the page.  You're right,
> > having "Dormant" there is flat out wrong and very misleading.
> >
> > I changed it to "Active" just now and added a ref pointer to the 4.1.2
> > release schedule that Andrea just provided.  I just hope there aren't
> > certain parties with a vested interest in denigrating AOO sitting around
> > planning to start a revert war over this.   :-(
> >
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Max Merbald <max.merb...@gmx.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Phil,
> > >
> > > what I meant was the infobox at the top right. In that box it says that
> > > AOO is dormat, which is not correct and which is not in the citations.
> > The
> > > presence of a citation does not necessry mean that the claimed info is
> in
> > > the citation. If people read on the Wikipedia that AOO is "dormant"
> > they'll
> > > start looking for different office software.
> > >
> > > Max
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 03.09.2015 um 23:12 schrieb Phillip Rhodes:
> > >
> > >> I just looked at the Wikipedia page and don't see anything that's -
> > >> strictly speaking - incorrect, or lacking citations.  IOW, I don't see
> > any
> > >> supportable rationale for removing anything that's there, although one
> > >> could question the motives of whoever made it a point to call out some
> > >> concerns about lack of activity in the first paragaph of the article.
> > >> Nonetheless, I think any attempt to modify that will face opposition.
> > >>
> > >> In a related vein, The Guardian recently ran this article titled
> > "Should I
> > >> Switch From Apache OpenOffice to LibreOffice or Microsoft Office".
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2015/sep/03/switch-openoffice-libreoffice-or-microsoft-office
> > >>
> > >> I don't know if there's any easy way to counter this narrative that's
> > >> spreading through the press, about AOO being dead/dormant/whatever, or
> > how
> > >> LO is clearly "the winner", but it's definitely unfortunate to see
> this
> > >> kind of stuff spread around so widely.  :-(
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts <lui...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Max,
> > >>>
> > >>> On 03 Sep 15, at 16:31, Max Merbald <max.merb...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi there,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> the Engish Wikipedia claims that AOO is dormant. I can't see where
> > they
> > >>>>
> > >>> have the information from. The sources they use don't say so. I think
> > >>> it's
> > >>> definitely bad for OpenOffice when people think no more is done about
> > it.
> > >>> The problem is also that LibreOffice has just published its version
> 5.0
> > >>> and
> > >>> is getting ahead of us.
> > >>>
> > >>> thanks for the alert.
> > >>>
> > >>> Wikipedia is composed by a crowd of editors, and you can change the
> > entry
> > >>> to reflect the facts.
> > >>>
> > >>> So can anyone on this list. Becoming an editor at Wikipedia is not
> > >>> arduous.
> > >>>
> > >>> Louis
> > >>>
> > >>>> Max
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> -
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> -
> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Wrongful information on the Wikipedia

[Phillip Rhodes]

Fair enough.   That is the dictionary definition.  I was thinking of how
it's used colloquially, which seems
to be more like a synonym for "stagnant."   I'd be OK with either
"stagnant" or "stalled", if the change
can be made without someone immediately reverting it.   I probably won't do
it myself since I quickly tire
of dicking around with wikipedia edit wars, but I fully support anybody who
does.


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Donald Whytock <dwhyt...@apache.org> wrote:

> "Moribund" means "dying".  It's a goofy word, yes, which means it's an
> attention-getting word, which means people will look at it and say, "What
> the hell does THAT mean?" and focus on why someone would call AOO that.
>
> Is "dying" more accurate than "dormant" to describe AOO?  "Dying" suggests
> the project is in decline and will only continue to decline.  Does anyone
> here think "dying" is more accurate than, say, "Stalled"?
>
> Don
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Phillip Rhodes <motley.crue@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > "Moribund" is a goofy word that almost nobody uses in conversation, but
> > it's probably more accurate than "dormant".   I've spent enough time
> > goofing around on Wikipedia lately, so, for myself, I'm quite happy to
> > leave it as is, until the 4.1.2 release comes out.  At that point, I
> think
> > it's clear that it should then be made "Active".
> >
> > *shrug*
> >
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Donald Whytock <dwhyt...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > There was a minor skirmish last week over it.  Looks like there'll be
> one
> > > this week too...someone changed it to "moribund".
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Phillip Rhodes <
> > motley.crue@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry, I missed the infobox when I looked at the page.  You're right,
> > > > having "Dormant" there is flat out wrong and very misleading.
> > > >
> > > > I changed it to "Active" just now and added a ref pointer to the
> 4.1.2
> > > > release schedule that Andrea just provided.  I just hope there aren't
> > > > certain parties with a vested interest in denigrating AOO sitting
> > around
> > > > planning to start a revert war over this.   :-(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Max Merbald <max.merb...@gmx.de>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Phil,
> > > > >
> > > > > what I meant was the infobox at the top right. In that box it says
> > that
> > > > > AOO is dormat, which is not correct and which is not in the
> > citations.
> > > > The
> > > > > presence of a citation does not necessry mean that the claimed info
> > is
> > > in
> > > > > the citation. If people read on the Wikipedia that AOO is "dormant"
> > > > they'll
> > > > > start looking for different office software.
> > > > >
> > > > > Max
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am 03.09.2015 um 23:12 schrieb Phillip Rhodes:
> > > > >
> > > > >> I just looked at the Wikipedia page and don't see anything that's
> -
> > > > >> strictly speaking - incorrect, or lacking citations.  IOW, I don't
> > see
> > > > any
> > > > >> supportable rationale for removing anything that's there, although
> > one
> > > > >> could question the motives of whoever made it a point to call out
> > some
> > > > >> concerns about lack of activity in the first paragaph of the
> > article.
> > > > >> Nonetheless, I think any attempt to modify that will face
> > opposition.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In a related vein, The Guardian recently ran this article titled
> > > > "Should I
> > > > >> Switch From Apache OpenOffice to LibreOffice or Microsoft Office".
> > > > >>
> > > >

Re: Wrongful information on the Wikipedia

[Phillip Rhodes]

Sorry, I missed the infobox when I looked at the page.  You're right,
having "Dormant" there is flat out wrong and very misleading.

I changed it to "Active" just now and added a ref pointer to the 4.1.2
release schedule that Andrea just provided.  I just hope there aren't
certain parties with a vested interest in denigrating AOO sitting around
planning to start a revert war over this.   :-(


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Max Merbald <max.merb...@gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi Phil,
>
> what I meant was the infobox at the top right. In that box it says that
> AOO is dormat, which is not correct and which is not in the citations. The
> presence of a citation does not necessry mean that the claimed info is in
> the citation. If people read on the Wikipedia that AOO is "dormant" they'll
> start looking for different office software.
>
> Max
>
>
>
> Am 03.09.2015 um 23:12 schrieb Phillip Rhodes:
>
>> I just looked at the Wikipedia page and don't see anything that's -
>> strictly speaking - incorrect, or lacking citations.  IOW, I don't see any
>> supportable rationale for removing anything that's there, although one
>> could question the motives of whoever made it a point to call out some
>> concerns about lack of activity in the first paragaph of the article.
>> Nonetheless, I think any attempt to modify that will face opposition.
>>
>> In a related vein, The Guardian recently ran this article titled "Should I
>> Switch From Apache OpenOffice to LibreOffice or Microsoft Office".
>>
>> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2015/sep/03/switch-openoffice-libreoffice-or-microsoft-office
>>
>> I don't know if there's any easy way to counter this narrative that's
>> spreading through the press, about AOO being dead/dormant/whatever, or how
>> LO is clearly "the winner", but it's definitely unfortunate to see this
>> kind of stuff spread around so widely.  :-(
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts <lui...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Max,
>>>
>>> On 03 Sep 15, at 16:31, Max Merbald <max.merb...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> the Engish Wikipedia claims that AOO is dormant. I can't see where they
>>>>
>>> have the information from. The sources they use don't say so. I think
>>> it's
>>> definitely bad for OpenOffice when people think no more is done about it.
>>> The problem is also that LibreOffice has just published its version 5.0
>>> and
>>> is getting ahead of us.
>>>
>>> thanks for the alert.
>>>
>>> Wikipedia is composed by a crowd of editors, and you can change the entry
>>> to reflect the facts.
>>>
>>> So can anyone on this list. Becoming an editor at Wikipedia is not
>>> arduous.
>>>
>>> Louis
>>>
>>>> Max
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Wrongful information on the Wikipedia

[Phillip Rhodes]

I just looked at the Wikipedia page and don't see anything that's -
strictly speaking - incorrect, or lacking citations.  IOW, I don't see any
supportable rationale for removing anything that's there, although one
could question the motives of whoever made it a point to call out some
concerns about lack of activity in the first paragaph of the article.
Nonetheless, I think any attempt to modify that will face opposition.

In a related vein, The Guardian recently ran this article titled "Should I
Switch From Apache OpenOffice to LibreOffice or Microsoft Office".
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2015/sep/03/switch-openoffice-libreoffice-or-microsoft-office

I don't know if there's any easy way to counter this narrative that's
spreading through the press, about AOO being dead/dormant/whatever, or how
LO is clearly "the winner", but it's definitely unfortunate to see this
kind of stuff spread around so widely.  :-(


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts  wrote:

> Hi Max,
>
> > On 03 Sep 15, at 16:31, Max Merbald  wrote:
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > the Engish Wikipedia claims that AOO is dormant. I can't see where they
> have the information from. The sources they use don't say so. I think it's
> definitely bad for OpenOffice when people think no more is done about it.
> The problem is also that LibreOffice has just published its version 5.0 and
> is getting ahead of us.
>
> thanks for the alert.
>
> Wikipedia is composed by a crowd of editors, and you can change the entry
> to reflect the facts.
>
> So can anyone on this list. Becoming an editor at Wikipedia is not arduous.
>
> Louis
> >
> > Max
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: build error

[Phillip Rhodes]

FWIW, that patch did indeed fix the build error I was seeing, so I endorse
the idea of going ahead and merging that.


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org
wrote:

 On 20/08/2015 Phillip Rhodes wrote:

 I ran into this bug:
 https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=126258
 I just applied the patch in the bug, trying the build again now.


 Thank you for bringing it to the list's attention anyway (and thanks
 Alexander for contributing the patch in the first place!).

 I've now suggested that we integrate the patch in the next 4.1.2 release
 for a smoother build experience on recent systems.

 Regards,
   Andrea.

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Re: [REPORT] PMC 2015-07 Private-List Activity through July

[Phillip Rhodes]

So what, if anything, should we take away from this?  My (completely
superficial, naive and uninformed) feeling is that that is a LOT of traffic
on the private list.  But maybe not.  Anyway, is the idea here that there
should be less traffic on that list? More? The same?

I have to admit, I've been pretty dormant for a long-time, so I'm a little
out of touch with what's going on (gone on) here, but you have me intrigued
with this.


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton orc...@apache.org
wrote:

 From an AOO PMC Member,

 I have compiled a high-level traffic analysis of discussion activity on
 the OpenOffice PMC private@ oo.a.o list.  These are *statistics* and
 noisy ones at that.  I am looking for trends that are good-enough at this
 level of precision.  It is in the nature of private@ that message content
 and even the topics must be held in confidence.

 This report of gross metrics is for the community's appraisal of current
 state and later progress.  The movement of discussions to the community
 when the confidentiality requirements for PMC discussion do not apply
 should be seen in movements at this level.  Further reports over the course
 of the year may provide an useful indicator.

 OVERALL PRIVATE MESSAGE TRAFFIC

 This is a breakdown of the traffic in the 212 days from January through
 July, 2015, by role of the sender.

 2015 | Private List Messages
thru July | PMC  ASF  Other   All

   Totals  1145  182 31  1358
  Senders22   23 2368
   Per sender  52.0  7.91.3  20.0
(average)
  Per day   5.4  0.90.1   6.4

 Of all the messages sent,

   84% are by members of the PMC,
   16% are by other ASF participants, and
   17% are by others.

 The ASF participants include members of Apache Infrastructure, Officers of
 the ASF, and other ASF Members and staff who make posts to the private
 list.  The Other senders are members of the public and non-PMC Apache
 OpenOffice contributors that raise questions or provide information to the
 PMC via private@.

 For the 1145 messages from the 22 PMC members who posted to the list so
 far this year,

   49% of the messages are from the three
   PMC members who were the most vocal
   in the studied period.
   75% of the messages are from the seven
   most vocal.
   91% were from the most vocal 11 of the
   22 PMC members that posted.

 I confess to being one of those top three posters.


 NUMBER OF SUBJECTS AND AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION

 A review of the same message archives, for January - July, 2015, tallied

  168 subjects discussed across 1341 posts,
  about 0.8 new topics per day.
The variance of 17 from the first tally
  is negligible and will not be corrected.
  The raw data is available for auditing
  by the PMC.

  8.0 is the average number of messages on a
  single subject

   5% is the portion of the overall messages
  used in the longest thread, one with
  73 messages

  50% of the messages are on the 20 longest
  discussion threads.  The shortest thread
  in that group has 18 messages.

  75% of the messages are on the 50 longest
  discussions.  The shortest threads in
  that group have 8 messages.

  90% of the messages are on the 84 longest
  discussions (i.e., half of the
  threads).  The shortest threads in
  that group have 4 messages each.

  The remaining 10% consists of 84 threads
  having 3, 2, and 1 messages each.

 This does not speak to the quality or the necessity of these messages and
 any particular thread.  The PMC has detailed supporting data.

 [end of report]


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build error

[Phillip Rhodes]

AOO crew:

I'm trying to build the latest sources on Linux and am seeing this
error.  Any thoughts or suggestions on how to resolve this are
much appreciated.


patch ../../unxlngx6.pro/bin/odkcommon/docs/java/ref/index.html
idl_ref_javadoc.patch
Invalid file name ../../unxlngx6.pro/bin/odkcommon/docs/java/ref/index.html
-- skipping patch
dmake:  Error code 1, while making '../../
unxlngx6.pro/bin/odkcommon/docs/java/ref/index.html'
dmake:  '../../unxlngx6.pro/bin/odkcommon/docs/java/ref/index.html'
removed.

1 module(s):
   odk
need(s) to be rebuilt

Reason(s):

ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
/home/prhodes/development/clones_not_mirrors_upstream_oss/openoffice/main/odk/pack/gendocu


When you have fixed the errors in that module you can resume the build by
running:

   build --all:odk



Thanks,


Phillip Rhodes
~~~
This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

Re: build error

[Phillip Rhodes]

Aaah, looks like I should have searched harder before posting.  I think I
ran into this bug:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=126258

I just applied the patch in the bug, trying the build again now.


Thanks,


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 9:51 PM, Phillip Rhodes motley.crue@gmail.com
wrote:

 AOO crew:

 I'm trying to build the latest sources on Linux and am seeing this
 error.  Any thoughts or suggestions on how to resolve this are
 much appreciated.


 patch ../../unxlngx6.pro/bin/odkcommon/docs/java/ref/index.html
 idl_ref_javadoc.patch
 Invalid file name ../../
 unxlngx6.pro/bin/odkcommon/docs/java/ref/index.html -- skipping patch
 dmake:  Error code 1, while making '../../
 unxlngx6.pro/bin/odkcommon/docs/java/ref/index.html'
 dmake:  '../../unxlngx6.pro/bin/odkcommon/docs/java/ref/index.html'
 removed.

 1 module(s):
odk
 need(s) to be rebuilt

 Reason(s):

 ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
 /home/prhodes/development/clones_not_mirrors_upstream_oss/openoffice/main/odk/pack/gendocu


 When you have fixed the errors in that module you can resume the build by
 running:

build --all:odk



 Thanks,


 Phillip Rhodes
 ~~~
 This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

Re: [VOTE] Dennis Hamilton as new AOO Chair.

[Phillip Rhodes]

[X]  +1, Dennis Hamilton as new Chair


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Andrew Rist andrew.r...@oracle.com
wrote:

 [X]  +1, Dennis Hamilton as new Chair



 On 8/15/2015 11:57 PM, jan i wrote:
  This is a call for a formal vote among the 1 candidate for the AOO Chair
  role.
 
  Due to the fact that there are only 1 candidate we could use lazy
  consensus, but since
  some persons might be against that, we will use majority vote, as if
 there
  was multiple candidates.
 
  Voting rules are as follows:
  - Only PMC votes are binding, but everybody are welcome to vote
  - The nominee with the most +1 (deducted -1) gets elected
  - VOTE runs until Sunday August 23th
  - As outgoing Chair, I will send resolution to Board August 23th.
 
  Please vote
  [ ]  +1, I want Dennis Hamilton as new Chair
  [ ] +0, I do not care if Dennis Hamilton becomes new Chair
  [ ] -1, I am against Dennis Hamilton becomes new chair
   (out of curtesy, please add another suggestion).
 
  Have fun voting.
  rgds
  jan i.
 


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Re: What I miss a bit at the project

[Phillip Rhodes]

IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as
people feel a need for.  Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to
projects is to ensure that decision making is done
in public and very openly.   I think the implication of that is that
most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any
actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s).

That's the way I've always understood it anyway.  Somebody please
correct me if I'm wrong.


Phil

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote:
 Hi all

 At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were
 more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The
 fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not
 allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC,
 because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making.

 IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have
 often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more
 afective and make more.

 I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org
 at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too.

 Greetings Raphael

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Re: What I miss a bit at the project

[Phillip Rhodes]

Well said, Rob.  I should have been more explicit in explaining that
when I say decision making I mean big decisions for some value of big.
It's a little bit subjective and will always be a judgment call, but I
think your
example is perfect.  How to fix the broken build can absolutely be
done on IRC.
Deciding to rewrite Calc in Ada, OTOH would not be something you would want
to do on IRC.

Personally I'm looking forward to a move active IRC presence for AOO
people, as I'm a big IRC fan.  I just want to make sure we stay
aligned with the Apache Way.


Phil

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Phillip Rhodes
 motley.crue@gmail.com wrote:
 IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as
 people feel a need for.  Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to
 projects is to ensure that decision making is done
 in public and very openly.   I think the implication of that is that
 most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any
 actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s).

 That's the way I've always understood it anyway.  Somebody please
 correct me if I'm wrong.


 That's the general idea.  But not everything needs discussion.  JFDI
 has a place as well.  For example, if the build broke and the
 developers meet in IRC to figure out how to fix it, I'd expect them to
 just JFDI.  No need to report back to the dev list or discuss further
 or to ask permission.  The commit logs will record what was done.

 But in general, decisions are not urgent.  They don't need to be made
 at short notice.  So the mailing list is more respectful of
 participation of project members in many time zones, including many
 native languages, and individuals who might need to check a dictionary
 occasionally to understand what is said.  The mailing list is
 inclusive.  Real-time meetings, in person, via phone, Google Hangouts,
 IRC, etc., are tied to a specific time, and so they are less
 inclusive.  But they still have a role to play, I think.

 -Rob


 Phil

 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote:
 Hi all

 At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were
 more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The
 fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not
 allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC,
 because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making.

 IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have
 often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more
 afective and make more.

 I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org
 at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too.

 Greetings Raphael

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Re: What I miss a bit at the project

[Phillip Rhodes]

The lack of available record thing can be addressed - to some extent
- by logging the channel traffic and posting the log somewhere where
it will be publicly available.  Offhand, I'd say this is something we
should do, if we aren't already, to the extent that we use IRC.


Phil

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton
dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
 +1

 There's also the problem of synchronicity.  Living in gmt-0800 (now gmt-0700 
 until the end of October), it is very difficult to find an useful window.  
 And if I am not present, I am not aware and have no available record.  The 
 Apach lists and procedures recognize the need for asynchronous activity and 
 allowing for the different times and availabilities of participants.

 I personally do not use IRC much, and even in conference calls I avoid 
 instant design as much as possible.  That's my personal dynamic for 
 managing multiple activities.  I gather that there are folks who find IRC 
 very useful.  My closest to that is some regular, time-blocked Google+ 
 Hangout meetings.  They have the advantage of audio (plus video), even though 
 one can use chat in a sidebar.

 I am not objecting to IRC.  But it is not a panacea.

  - Dennis

 -Original Message-
 From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 08:19
 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
 Subject: Re: What I miss a bit at the project

 IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as
 people feel a need for.  Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to
 projects is to ensure that decision making is done
 in public and very openly.   I think the implication of that is that
 most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any
 actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s).

 That's the way I've always understood it anyway.  Somebody please
 correct me if I'm wrong.


 Phil

 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote:
 Hi all

 At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were
 more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The
 fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not
 allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC,
 because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making.

 IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have
 often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more
 afective and make more.

 I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org
 at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too.

 Greetings Raphael

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