Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Just for the record, I've been running DjangoCon for five years now and we've had anti-harassment policies in place for four of them in the shape of a publicized code of conduct. I have no information to confirm your belief, but I can say with

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

The lead in to that post was "I think a lot of recent changes in the language are harmful. Many common, short, clear, and concise words and phrases are being replaces with long, vague, sterile versions. Not only in the IT field, but everywhere." and then the poster went on to demonstrate her case

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:40 PM, Thomas Leo wrote: > +1 for @Wim Feijen's rewording but... > > I think the wording of the Group description isn't the issue, my guess is > that people who make the mistake of asking django-user's questions in the > django-developers mailing list

Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

Done. On 10 Sep 2014, at 10:45, Andrew Godwin wrote: Looks good - make a pull request and I'll hit merge. On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Greg Brown wrote: How's this? https://github.com/gregplaysguitar/django/commit/b4d486c80ff6bdfaec8f85e724b44ce5e74a5bb6

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Ben, Two points: A) Your description of the threat-of-use-of-CoC incident, which appears to be quite central to your argument (as a piece of evidence), is, as far as I can see, inaccurate. The person who was threatened had started out reasonable, but later made several disrespectful and

Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

Looks good - make a pull request and I'll hit merge. On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Greg Brown wrote: > How's this? > > > https://github.com/gregplaysguitar/django/commit/b4d486c80ff6bdfaec8f85e724b44ce5e74a5bb6 > > > > On Wednesday, 10 September 2014 09:42:52

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 3:07:57 PM UTC-7, Benjamin Scherrey wrote: > > James, > > I'm completely aware of the kind of situation you're describing in > some technical communities. I also don't find any evidence of it whatsoever > in ours, as I've pointed out repeatedly and have

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Looks like this community reached consensus several posts ago -- unless Benjamin is boss of codes of conduct, it should be merged now. On Wednesday, 10 September 2014 09:49:15 UTC+12, Benjamin Scherrey wrote: > > Aymeric, > > I'm afraid I don't understand your protest about my reply to you.

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Kate, What you did there is a perfect example of how to enforce an affirmative inclusive conduct policy. My reply was not intended (and hopefully not perceived as such) to belittle him but rather to clarify the record of what my position was and the facts of my effort to support them. I will

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Reinout, Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I agree with and understand the intent. Unfortunately those with said intent seem to have elected to ignore the law of unintended consequences which I have attempted to spell out and demonstrate. Such policies and intentions aren't always practical

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

James, I'm completely aware of the kind of situation you're describing in some technical communities. I also don't find any evidence of it whatsoever in ours, as I've pointed out repeatedly and have repeatedly asked for evidence of by those who think a speech and behavior code is justifiable.

Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

How's this? https://github.com/gregplaysguitar/django/commit/b4d486c80ff6bdfaec8f85e724b44ce5e74a5bb6 On Wednesday, 10 September 2014 09:42:52 UTC+12, Greg Brown wrote: > > Hi all, > > Thanks for the rapid responses! I wasn't aware that South imported the > custom fields, and I can definitely

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

On 08-09-14 09:16, Benjamin Scherrey wrote: So lets see... anyone who has done any of the following completely outside the context of the Django community or forums is now not welcome to participate: You mention a number of things you aren't allowed to ever have done somewhere else in your

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Ben, Aymeric has the right to opt out of this conversation at anytime if he is uncomfortable. You may continue to share your opinions on the topic to the group as a whole but there is no need to directly address him if he does not want that. Kate On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 5:49:15 PM

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Aymeric, I'm afraid I don't understand your protest about my reply to you. You very clearly took a position that the policy was effective because of how rarely it has had to have been invoked. You didn't make any case whatsoever to justify your belief that this was a causation relationship -

Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

Hi all, Thanks for the rapid responses! I wasn't aware that South imported the custom fields, and I can definitely see why the 1.7 approach is better now. I guess the fact that this never bit me in numerous past projects using South shows it's not really a problem. I agree that it'd be good

Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

Carl is correct, South serialized a dotted path to the field while Django writes an import in, but it's the same thing in the end - the field must keep existing. The advantage of the Django approach is that it's much more obviously an import error now and happens immediately. I'm happy to firm up

Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

Hi Greg, On 09/09/2014 03:00 PM, Greg Brown wrote: > Moving over to the new migrations, I noticed that whenever I > create a migration involving a custom model field, it imports that field > at the top of the migration. The South docs were always quite firm about > not doing this sort of thing,

Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

Questions related to design decisions are a valid topic for django-developers. In this case, please see this documentation: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/migrations/#historical-models Perhaps Andrew may want to explain the design decision further. On Tuesday, September 9, 2014

Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Greg Brown wrote: >Moving over to the new migrations, I noticed that whenever I >create a migration involving a custom model field, it imports that field >at the top of the migration. The South docs were always quite firm about >not doing this sort

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

Hi Daniel, An idea we spoke about earlier in this tread is to rename the group to Django Contributors, and the slug (and url) to remain django-developers in order to preserve links. Wim On Tuesday, 9 September 2014 22:04:30 UTC+2, Daniel Pyrathon wrote: > > Hi, > > I think that changing the

Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

Hi all, Moving over to the new migrations, I noticed that whenever I create a migration involving a custom model field, it imports that field at the top of the migration. The South docs were always quite firm about not doing this sort of thing, in case the code changed in the future. Is this a

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

Test failures are fixed with mysqlclient 1.3.3. I believe we can now move the discussion of the implementation of this to the ticket: https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/23446 There are some tickets about pymysql (below), but I have some reservations about officially supporting more than one

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

Hi, I think that changing the name the community on google will create many broken links, this will be a huge loss. What we can do instead, is create 2 domains (or subdomains) such as core-development.djangoproject.com and community.djangoproject.com that will serve as the official URLs to

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Benjamin, Please read my email again. I did not take a side in the debate. I didn't say anything about the two PRs or your arguments. I didn't support your position but I didn't reject it either. Please realize that your answer expresses prejudice about my beliefs and that it paints me as a

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

I have been involved in building and participating in and running technically-oriented groups for fifteen years. I've seen a lot of stuff. The most common problem pattern I have seen is the "I'm not touching you" game. To understand what this means, imagine parents driving a car, with two

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

It is a valid concern. That said, I'd rather the documentation recommend a GPL, Python 3+2, working MySQL connector over a GPL, Python 2, partially broken MySQL connector. On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 3:21:08 PM UTC-4, Daniel Sears wrote: > > Aside from the technical issues, there are the

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Aymeric, You don't believe that one should also consider how it is used? I have already documented that the single ever documented threatened use of the existing code of conduct was not to protect anyone from harassment but, in fact, was used to stifle someone's thoughtful and reasoned

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

Aside from the technical issues, there are the licensing issues. The Django community strongly prefers BSD-style licensing and both mysqldb and MySQL Connector/Python use GPL licenses. For an e-mail thread which addresses these GPL issues, see

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

On 9 sept. 2014, at 19:54, Benjamin Scherrey wrote: > So far we have exactly one documented example and TPTB took it seriously > right away. To me, this hardly justifies any need for an explicit > "anti-harassment" policy. I believe the success of the code of conduct is

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

I also agree with listing the things people shouldn't do at conferences. Listing lines that they should stay within is good. Listing lines they shouldn't cross is also good. A code of conduct can happily have both. On Saturday, September 6, 2014 9:10:42 PM UTC-4, Kevin Daum wrote: > > I have

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Benjamin, Out of your three links only the 3rd describes an actual harassment > occurring at a Django-related event. Actually, even the third link doesn't describe harassment occuring at a Django-related event. It described harassment by a Django community member at a non-Django event. And it

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Alex Gaynor wrote: >When Jacob and I originally drafted the CoC, we specifically included an >enumeration of some disallowed behaviors on the recommendation of the Ada >Initiative -- it was their view that the list helped to minimize rules >lawyering,

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

As someone affected by an issue that would fall under the proposed change [1], I still support an explicit guideline about external behavior influencing internal acceptance. The safety of all members is more important than the risk of misapplication of the rule. [1]

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

When Jacob and I originally drafted the CoC, we specifically included an enumeration of some disallowed behaviors on the recommendation of the Ada Initiative -- it was their view that the list helped to minimize rules lawyering, whereby someone attempts to explain how they could not have known

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

As someone who has been the target of harassment at conferences (I've been lucky, only minor incidents for me, although the same can't be said for other of my female colleagues), I prefer explicit over implicit. If someone is a harasser outside the community, I won't feel safe encountering them

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

I wholeheartedly support the measure to change the language and more explicitly state that behavior in discordance with the Django code of conduct outside the walls of Django events can affect participation within the walls of Django events. The community itself spans both spaces, and you

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Kevin, Again I believe your heart is in the right place but the presumption in your message is that there are people who need and deserve special protection above and beyond other members of the community. While, well intentioned, we all know how the road to hell got paved. A good policy is

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Hi Stephen, Out of your three links only the 3rd describes an actual harassment occurring at a Django-related event. It also describes that as soon as the person reported it to the conference director she got an immediate positive response by the director who seems to have made every attempt

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Benjamin, I believe there have been serious issues with harassment of women specifically at previous DjangoCons (though there may not be mention of it on the mailing lists.) It has definitely been a major issue at other tech conferences and tech meetups. That was a major factor in the recent push

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

I'm going to attempt to reach out to some folks who I think might be more likely than us to benefit from a code of conduct and ask if they have anything to add. I'm not mounting a public campaign, I just think we're missing some important perspectives. On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 3:15:10 AM

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

I think it would also be a great improvement if we all adopted a standard response for these kind of mails - because no matter what we do, some will still end up here. Almost entirely based on Daniele's previous responses, how about we use: > The best place to get answers to your questions is

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Thomas Leo wrote: >> and in most cases one has the impression that successfully finding a >place to >> ask a question and writing a message expressing their question about >Django >> development is an achievement in itself for them. > >This seems rather

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

+1 for @Wim Feijen's rewording but... I think the wording of the Group description isn't the issue, my guess is that people who make the mistake of asking django-user's questions in the django-developers mailing list didn't read the description to begin with. > They are almost all from people

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

I've fixed them and released mysqlclient 1.3.3. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/mysqlclient On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 3:29:45 PM UTC+9, Naoki INADA wrote: > > I've fixed `%(xxx)s` style formatting. > > I have not changed error switch: >

Draft DEP: ORM expressions API changes

I have written a DEP about planned ORM expressions API changes. See https://github.com/django/deps/pull/5 for the proposed DEP. The plan is to throw away sql.expressions.SQLEvaluator, rewrite how expressions work and make aggregates subclasses of expressions. Short summary of the goals and

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

Python 2.7.3 and MySQL_python-1.2.5-cp27-none-linux_x86_64.whl On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 10:41:40 AM UTC+2, Naoki INADA wrote: > > I run django tests using MySQL-python 1.2.5 (aka, MySQLdb1) and Python > 2.7.8. > So it means django doesn't work with MySQL with MySQL-python. > > $ python -V

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

http://djangoci.com/ disagrees with you :) Would have to check the specific mysqldb version. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Robert Grant wrote: >Totally agree Daniele. I don't know how other people experience the group, >but I actually didn't see the email address, and didn't even look at the >URL. I'm not sure how much effect any of this will have. We get a few (I'd

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

Hi, Good thing to change the group name. For the description, another wording could be: Discussion group for contributing to the Django source code and documentation. Here we discuss new features and updates of the Django project. Wim On Tuesday, 9 September 2014 10:52:09 UTC+2, Robert

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

Totally agree Daniele. I don't know how other people experience the group, but I actually didn't see the email address, and didn't even look at the URL. If we can find where the email is exposed (say on a website) and change things to hide it as much as possible, e.g.: Instead of : Email the

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

I run django tests using MySQL-python 1.2.5 (aka, MySQLdb1) and Python 2.7.8. So it means django doesn't work with MySQL with MySQL-python. $ python -V Python 2.7.8 (mysql2)[inada-n@MBA:~] $ pip list MySQL-python (1.2.5) pip (1.5.6) setuptools (3.6) wsgiref (0.1.2) On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:18

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 9:22:10 AM UTC+2, Naoki INADA wrote: > > Failed to install index for admin_views.PrePopulatedPostLargeSlug > model: (1071, 'Specified key was too long; max key length is 767 bytes') > Welcome to the wonderful world to mysql, afaik this is a warning and not an

Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Russell Keith-Magee wrote: >As a matter of formality, I'd like to put this through the technical board >so that it isn't just a fiat decision by the handful of people motivated to >participate in this discussion. By the way, there are three related

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

I can't run django test. Synchronizing apps without migrations: Creating tables... Installing custom SQL... Installing indexes... Failed to install index for admin_views.PrePopulatedPostLargeSlug model: (1071, 'Specified key was too long; max key length is 767 bytes') I use 1.7 tag on

Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

Good email. This one won't be that good. Boiling my verbose email down to two sentences: We seem to already have a private group of people who make decisions in secret and pronounce a verdict on issues, and who can to a large extent control the community. If this is the case, and they already

Re: [RFC] Python 3 and MySQL

I've fixed `%(xxx)s` style formatting. I have not changed error switch: https://github.com/PyMySQL/mysqlclient-python/blob/master/_mysql.c#L150 https://github.com/farcepest/MySQLdb1/blob/master/_mysql.c#L180 I'll investigate the problem, but I can't promise any date for fixing it. On Tuesday,