Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[James Bennett]

After changing that TX delay in WSJT-X on both computers, AND changing from VOX 
to CAT control, I do see a slight improvement. I guess that at this point we 
can simply close the thread. The software works on both computers and both the 
KX3 and K3 are able to successfully make FT8 QSO’s - when I’m in the mood for 
such “automated” operating as this. Thanks for everyone’s comments and input. 
Nice to have valid, informative interaction on this reflector, as opposed to 
some of the snarky comments one occasionally gets on other non-elecraft venues!

73, Jim / W6JHB

p.s. - I do have a question about NTP but will post that as another question, 
kinda off-topic.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[RIchard Williams via Elecraft]

 Jim,
Check the Settings/ Advanced tab and make sure you have the Tx Delay box set to 
.1 seconds, and not to 1 second.
Dick, K8ZTT


On Friday, February 23, 2018, 12:35:18 PM MST, James Bennett  
wrote:  
 
 Made changes to my “radio” tab as suggested below and I see some improvement, 
and wondering if this is what I should expect: At the “zero” time mark, the rig 
red TX light comes on and at the +1 second mark, RF /ALC is happening. Expected 
behavior? or should the RF/ALC start at the same time as the red TX light?

Both the K3 and KX3 are exhibiting the same response.

Jim / W6JHB

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> Systems haven’t used two stop bits for decades. I’ve never set a system to 
> two stop bits and I was supporting a big UUCP node at Hewlett-Packard in the 
> late 1980’s.
> 
> wunder
> Walter Underwood
> wun...@wunderwood.org 
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/   (my blog)
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2018, at 9:58 AM, RIchard Williams via Elecraft 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> When setting up radio settings in WSJT-X for the K3/K3S, I keep seeing 
>> different settings for the number of stop bits (one and two) popping up on 
>> the reflector.    Am not sure where TWO stop bits is coming from???  On page 
>> 20 of the K3S manual (page 18 of the K3 manual), left hand column, Serial 
>> Port Setup,  it states "Software should be set up at the same rate: 8 data 
>> bits, no parity, 1 stop bit".
>> Have no idea why the Radio set window in WSJT-X defaults to TWO stop bits 
>> when you select Elecraft K3/K3S.  Initially, I did not catch this, and I was 
>> encountering problems with my K3S remaining in transmit mode more often than 
>> not after a transmission.  Once I changed to ONE stop bit, my problem 
>> magically went away.
>> 
>> What I have set up is:
>> Rig: Elecraft K3/K3S , Polling interval: 1sec
>> CAT control: COM 13 (which is a virtual com port set up with LP-Bridge with 
>> my setup, your setting will be whatever com port are using).
>> Baud rate: 38,400
>> Data Bits, Stop Bits, and Handshake:  8, none, 1.
>> PTT method: CAT
>> Mode: Data/Pkt
>> Split Operation:  Rig
>> 
>> DIck, K8ZTT
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[Elecraft] K3 and WSJT-X FT8 timing

[eric norris via Elecraft]

I have also noticed this timing issue with WSJT-X 1.8.0 FT8, K3 #2545, an XP 
laptop running under CAT control, with external U7 soundcard.  WSPR runs 
without timing issues.  Past incarnations of WSJT have run on this same setup 
with JT65 on EME with no timing issues that I remember.  DIM4 runs and updates 
the pc time every 5 minutes. No difference if KAT500 is on or off.
However, I do make plenty of contacts on FT8, all failures seem to be band fade.
73 Eric WD6DBM

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Wes Stewart]

And before that we used CW.  I built a keyer/sequencer (still have it in 
storage) that used an Accu-Memory board with a lot of peripheral CMOS to 
automate the station sequencing.


I counted down the 60 Hz to generate timing, either 15 sec or 2 min depending on 
mode.  This started the changer over sequence and the memory playback.  However, 
the generated CW was run through a shift register (FIFO) with a variable speed 
clock that determined the TX delay, allowing the various stuff to accomplish 
their missions. Some retriggerable one-shots held things in the correct states 
until the message ended and the sequence reversed.


I ran an 8877 and GaAs FET preamp at the antenna and never had a failure except 
when I rushed to get on FM using a multimode (non-sequenced) rig to work W5LFL.  
I blew the antenna preamp and had to climb the tower to bypass it.  I still 
worked him, receiving the signal report, "N7WS 59, the loudest signal we've 
heard in the spacecraft."


Wes  N7WS


On 2/23/2018 1:12 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

Guess its time for me to add a couple comments:

Before FT8, before HFers "discovered" JT65,etc., we moonbouncer's had been 
using JT-65 for nearly 15 years!


Joe Taylor-K1JT invented all these nice new digital modes which originally 
were designed for ms (meteor scatter) and eme (moonbounce).  Knowing ms and 
eme stations run QRO on VHF+ with low noise preamps, there was a need to delay 
the digital transmission so all the various relays and accessories were 
switched to transmit.  Typically that was 300msec (0.3 seconds). So the sw 
engages PTT and waits for everything to be ready before sending audio to the 
transmitter.


Now that "hot shot" HFers are wanting to "Hot switch" their gear a guess FT8 
and WSJT-X versions have provided for user input on the delay length. in cheek - don't get upset>


Now you "know the rest of the story".

Note:
I use a USB/RS232 cable and key with DTR.  I couple audio input and output via 
two RS audio cables from my external soundcard (emu0202) to my 2010 K3 
(4340).  I have computer generated audio turned off (no "you have mail" or 
internet beeps).  Besides, I have a separate computer for normal 
internet/e-mail, etc.  My dedicated ham radio computer is normally 
disconnected from internet and I keep computer time by use of a GPS dongle (I 
can restore internet for K3 fw upgrades).


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

What is the CPU and Memory usage in percent, under the PERFORMANCE tab 
of the system task manager, with WSJT-X sitting idle and listening?


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Edward R Cole]

Guess its time for me to add a couple comments:

Before FT8, before HFers "discovered" JT65,etc., we moonbouncer's had 
been using JT-65 for nearly 15 years!


Joe Taylor-K1JT invented all these nice new digital modes which 
originally were designed for ms (meteor scatter) and eme 
(moonbounce).  Knowing ms and eme stations run QRO on VHF+ with low 
noise preamps, there was a need to delay the digital transmission so 
all the various relays and accessories were switched to 
transmit.  Typically that was 300msec (0.3 seconds).  So the sw 
engages PTT and waits for everything to be ready before sending audio 
to the transmitter.


Now that "hot shot" HFers are wanting to "Hot switch" their gear a 
guess FT8 and WSJT-X versions have provided for user input on the 
delay length. 


Now you "know the rest of the story".

Note:
I use a USB/RS232 cable and key with DTR.  I couple audio input and 
output via two RS audio cables from my external soundcard (emu0202) 
to my 2010 K3 (4340).  I have computer generated audio turned off (no 
"you have mail" or internet beeps).  Besides, I have a separate 
computer for normal internet/e-mail, etc.  My dedicated ham radio 
computer is normally disconnected from internet and I keep computer 
time by use of a GPS dongle (I can restore internet for K3 fw upgrades).


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

In as much as one only has 1 second minimum resolution, I'd say that is 
quite normal.  No,. the ALC/RF should not occur at the same time as the 
TX LED is illuminated.


In order to correctly determine accurate timing values, one needs to use 
a triggered dual trace scope to see exactly when things occur.   In my 
life, one second one way or the other makes absolutely no difference.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 2/23/2018 1:16 PM, James Bennett wrote:

Made changes to my “radio” tab as suggested below and I see some improvement, 
and wondering if this is what I should expect: At the “zero” time mark, the rig 
red TX light comes on and at the +1 second mark, RF /ALC is happening. Expected 
behavior? or should the RF/ALC start at the same time as the red TX light?

Both the K3 and KX3 are exhibiting the same response.

Jim / W6JHB


On Feb 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Walter Underwood  wrote:

Systems haven’t used two stop bits for decades. I’ve never set a system to two 
stop bits and I was supporting a big UUCP node at Hewlett-Packard in the late 
1980’s.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org 
http://observer.wunderwood.org/   (my blog)


On Feb 23, 2018, at 9:58 AM, RIchard Williams via Elecraft > wrote:

When setting up radio settings in WSJT-X for the K3/K3S, I keep seeing different settings 
for the number of stop bits (one and two) popping up on the reflector.Am not sure 
where TWO stop bits is coming from???  On page 20 of the K3S manual (page 18 of the K3 
manual), left hand column, Serial Port Setup,  it states "Software should be set up 
at the same rate: 8 data bits, no parity, 1 stop bit".
Have no idea why the Radio set window in WSJT-X defaults to TWO stop bits when 
you select Elecraft K3/K3S.   Initially, I did not catch this, and I was 
encountering problems with my K3S remaining in transmit mode more often than 
not after a transmission.  Once I changed to ONE stop bit, my problem magically 
went away.

What I have set up is:
Rig: Elecraft K3/K3S , Polling interval: 1sec
CAT control: COM 13 (which is a virtual com port set up with LP-Bridge with my 
setup, your setting will be whatever com port are using).
Baud rate: 38,400
Data Bits, Stop Bits, and Handshake:  8, none, 1.
PTT method: CAT
Mode: Data/Pkt
Split Operation:  Rig

DIck, K8ZTT
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[James Bennett]

Made changes to my “radio” tab as suggested below and I see some improvement, 
and wondering if this is what I should expect: At the “zero” time mark, the rig 
red TX light comes on and at the +1 second mark, RF /ALC is happening. Expected 
behavior? or should the RF/ALC start at the same time as the red TX light?

Both the K3 and KX3 are exhibiting the same response.

Jim / W6JHB

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> Systems haven’t used two stop bits for decades. I’ve never set a system to 
> two stop bits and I was supporting a big UUCP node at Hewlett-Packard in the 
> late 1980’s.
> 
> wunder
> Walter Underwood
> wun...@wunderwood.org 
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/   (my blog)
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2018, at 9:58 AM, RIchard Williams via Elecraft 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> When setting up radio settings in WSJT-X for the K3/K3S, I keep seeing 
>> different settings for the number of stop bits (one and two) popping up on 
>> the reflector.Am not sure where TWO stop bits is coming from???  On page 
>> 20 of the K3S manual (page 18 of the K3 manual), left hand column, Serial 
>> Port Setup,  it states "Software should be set up at the same rate: 8 data 
>> bits, no parity, 1 stop bit".
>> Have no idea why the Radio set window in WSJT-X defaults to TWO stop bits 
>> when you select Elecraft K3/K3S.   Initially, I did not catch this, and I 
>> was encountering problems with my K3S remaining in transmit mode more often 
>> than not after a transmission.  Once I changed to ONE stop bit, my problem 
>> magically went away.
>> 
>> What I have set up is:
>> Rig: Elecraft K3/K3S , Polling interval: 1sec
>> CAT control: COM 13 (which is a virtual com port set up with LP-Bridge with 
>> my setup, your setting will be whatever com port are using).
>> Baud rate: 38,400
>> Data Bits, Stop Bits, and Handshake:  8, none, 1.
>> PTT method: CAT
>> Mode: Data/Pkt
>> Split Operation:  Rig
>> 
>> DIck, K8ZTT
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[Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Phil Duff]

Try setting the WSJT-X software: Setting>Radio>Split Operation to “None”.  

When it’s set to “Rig” the WSJt-X software and K3 apparently exchange commands 
to set and verify Split VFO operation of each transmission.  That exchange of 
commands adds a delay before putting K3 into transmit.

The delay with it set to Rig doesn’t seem to affect actual FT8 QSO’s that I’ve 
noticed.

73 Phil NA4M
-. .- ….- --
Phil Duff  na4m[at]suddenlink[dot]net
















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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Walter Underwood]

Systems haven’t used two stop bits for decades. I’ve never set a system to two 
stop bits and I was supporting a big UUCP node at Hewlett-Packard in the late 
1980’s.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 9:58 AM, RIchard Williams via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> When setting up radio settings in WSJT-X for the K3/K3S, I keep seeing 
> different settings for the number of stop bits (one and two) popping up on 
> the reflector.Am not sure where TWO stop bits is coming from???  On page 
> 20 of the K3S manual (page 18 of the K3 manual), left hand column, Serial 
> Port Setup,  it states "Software should be set up at the same rate: 8 data 
> bits, no parity, 1 stop bit".
> Have no idea why the Radio set window in WSJT-X defaults to TWO stop bits 
> when you select Elecraft K3/K3S.   Initially, I did not catch this, and I was 
> encountering problems with my K3S remaining in transmit mode more often than 
> not after a transmission.  Once I changed to ONE stop bit, my problem 
> magically went away.
> 
> What I have set up is:
> Rig: Elecraft K3/K3S , Polling interval: 1sec
> CAT control: COM 13 (which is a virtual com port set up with LP-Bridge with 
> my setup, your setting will be whatever com port are using).
> Baud rate: 38,400
> Data Bits, Stop Bits, and Handshake:  8, none, 1.
> PTT method: CAT
> Mode: Data/Pkt
> Split Operation:  Rig
> 
> DIck, K8ZTT
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Wes Stewart]

To save work, I'm going to copy and paste a portion of a message I sent to my DX 
club back in September 2017.  In it I slightly facetiously coined the term 
"imaginary modes" for the WSJT-X suite and explained it in the footnotes copied 
here:


"* I call them imaginary because the programs actually decode signals that 
aren't there (1), or use databases of callsigns as lookup tables to guess 
received calls (2).


In a discussion I had with one of the FT8 developers about the TX delay in 
Elecraft radios causing transmission to be delayed until after the decode window 
opened, he opined that it might not matter because the decoder can "decode" 
signals that it never heard.


(1) Quoting G4WJS: "For FT8 the net effect is that
up to about 5 seconds of a message may be missing yet still
be decoded. The amount missing can be either a truncation or
parts of the message below the decoding threshold. The FT8
message is structured with sync symbols at the start, middle
and end so missing the start or end may have less impact
than missing other parts since mostly sync symbols may be
lost and they contain no message information."

(2) Another compelling paper discusses JT65 as used on EME. 
http://www.sm2cew.com/Digital%20communications%20using%20minimal%20transfer.pdf "


 So not to worry, your computers can continue to work each other without 
worrying about VOX delay.


Wes  N7WS
On 2/23/2018 7:57 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
My concern with using VOX is that the radio has to receive audio before it 
goes into transmit.  Thus one can almost be assured some data will be lost.   
Hence I find the better PTT choice is CAT with a 0.1 second TX delay before 
audio is sent to the radio from the software.  This is all available from the 
F2 Setup menu in WSJT-X.


73

Bob, K4TAX



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Richard]

> No issues of that type here.  These are my setup numbers:
> 
> Baud Rate = Eight
> 
> Stop Bits = one
> 
> Handshake = None
> 
> PTT method = CAT
> 
> Mode = Data/Pkt
> 
> Split = Rig
> 
> Also under the Advanced tab: Miscellaneous
> 
> TX Delay = 0.1 sec.

Here’s my latest attempt:

Config: PTT — KEY = RTS - OFF
VOX - Off

Radio Panel:
Poll Interval - 1s
38400
Eight
Two
None
No Force Control Lines
RTS
Data/Pkg
None

Advanced Panel:
Tx Delay = 0.1s

Results:
CQ Call #1 — K3S Transmit time = +1 second / Stop time = +4 seconds
CQ Call #2 — K3S Transmit time = +1 second / Stop time = 0+ seconds
CQ Call #3 — K3S Transmit time = +1 second / Stop time = 0+ seconds
CQ Call #4 — K3S Transmit time = +1 second / Stop time = 0+ seconds
CQ Call #5 — K3S Transmit time = 0 seconds / Stop time = 0+ seconds

I was encouraged… then this popped up:



When I clicked Cancel, WSJT-X quit. on previous appearances of the above I have 
clicked on OK, which took me back to the Radio panel. I tried Test PTT, and it 
seemed to work OK, and I had a green dot on the main window.

This error message appears seemingly at random, whether I’ve been transmitting 
or the radio has sat untouched for several minutes.

I’ve tried one stop bit, too, but it made no difference I could detect. This is 
no fun at all.

Cheers!

Richard Kunc — W4KBX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Don Wilhelm]

Richard,

The most common cause of "not coming out of transmit" is that you have 2 
sources of PTT.

VOX and CAT, or VOX and RTS, or CAT and RTS, or any other combination.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/23/2018 10:14 AM, Richard wrote:

Initially, I was using CAT. Now I’m trying RTS.

Just called CQ and the K3S never came out of transmit.


On Feb 23, 2018, at 8:22 AM, Ted Bryant  wrote:

I find the same transmit delay when using my Icom 756ProIII as when using my 
K3.  That indicates the transmit delay is coming from the software, not the 
radio.
The delay is consistent, ~ 1 second.  Even so, to me a 1 second delay is not a 
problem.  On both radios manual PTT is instantaneous.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[John Stengrevics]

Have you tried getting K3S tech support on the phone?

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 10:17 AM, Richard <flat...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Tried all that. No joy.
> 
> Richard
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2018, at 9:16 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <rmcg...@blomand.net> wrote:
>> 
>> No issues of that type here.   These are my setup numbers:
>> 
>> Baud Rate = Eight
>> 
>> Stop Bits = one
>> 
>> Handshake = None
>> 
>> PTT method = CAT
>> 
>> Mode = Data/Pkt
>> 
>> Split = Rig
>> 
>> Also under the Advanced tab:  Miscellaneous
>> 
>> TX Delay = 0.1 sec.
>> 
>> I'm not running any other applications such as JT Alert, N1NM, etc.  The 
>> computer is connected direct to the K3S with no router, or splitter, or hub  
>> and such in the path.
>> 
>> ***  Be sure the VOX mode on the radio is OFF.  {Very important}
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/22/2018 10:08 PM, Richard wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> 
>>>> From: Richard <flat...@comcast.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing
>>>> Date: February 22, 2018 at 11:06:58 PM EST
>>>> To: James Bennett <w6...@me.com>
>>>> 
>>>> I’m fighting the same problem and MORE. It usually goes like this:
>>>> 
>>>> First FT8 (or JT65) activity of the day, the K3S seems to start on time 
>>>> but sometimes shut off quite late. Any band, any power; I don’t use the 
>>>> amplifier, so 100 watts is the limit.
>>>> 
>>>> As time  goes along, the transmission initiation BY THE K3S gets later and 
>>>> later, and the shut off time does, too. By late I mean 2 to sometimes 5 
>>>> seconds!
>>>> 
>>>> Eventually, it starts late, then DOESN’T shut off at all.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, it doesn’t start at all.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve tried just about every imaginable combination of setting on the Radio 
>>>> panel and in the Config menu, all with no improvement.
>>>> 
>>>> In the year or more of enjoying JT65 and then FT8 with my Icom IC-7410, I 
>>>> had NONE of these problems, using the same computer and same software. It 
>>>> was bang on and trouble free from Day One.
>>>> 
>>>> You kinda hafta suspect the K3S is the culprit in this, but I’m open to 
>>>> anything. If I can’t solve this soon, there will be a virtually brand new 
>>>> K3S for sale.
>>>> 
>>>> Richard - W4KBX
>>>> 
>>>>> Guys - sorry for the delay in responding to your posts - places to go, 
>>>>> things to do, all overriding ham radio for a couple hours.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was suggested that I see if I’m out of sync on my computer clock(s). 
>>>>> Well, here is the strange thing: the iMac that the K3 is connected to 
>>>>> consistently is giving me a DT response of 0.1 to 0.2 on 90% of the 
>>>>> decoded stations, so I’m thinking that the default time server the iMac / 
>>>>> OSX is connected to is pretty accurate. But it is this rig that starts 
>>>>> it’s transmission a bit late.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The RPi 3 that the KX3 is connected to consistently is giving me DT 
>>>>> figures around -0.8 to -0.9. which makes me think my time sync is a 
>>>>> little off. But the KX3 connected to this RPi starts right up when it is 
>>>>> supposed to. Interestingly, that RPi 3 is connected via short Ethernet to 
>>>>> another RPi 3 that runs it’s own GPS-sync’d NTP server. Go figure.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m stumped.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 5:28 PM, Nr4c <n...@widomaker.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> ...nr4c. bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 6:30 PM, James Bennett <w6...@me.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Dennis - how you doing?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry I neglected to provide enough info - was in a hurry to post that 
>>>>>>> before I had to run out to pickup kids 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Wayne Burdick]

Thanks, everyone, for weighing in on this.

K3/K3S VOX is very fast on attack and can be set to very fast on release as 
well. It should be just as fast for data modes as for voice modes. This means 
you can test it by simply putting the radio into SSB mode: set the VOX delay to 
something small (say 0.05, or 50 ms). Set the VOX gain using the menu. If it’s 
slow, *then* it’s our problem but it shouldn’t be slow.

PTT should work equally well.

Wayne
N6KR


> On Feb 23, 2018, at 7:32 AM, brian <als...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Agree.  Have exclusively used VOX for FT8 and JT65.
> The 100+ countries worked apparently saw no issue either.
> Don't hear any predominant "others transmitting earlier".  Occasionally but 
> that may be their clock.
> 
> This is with a K3 not K3S.  WSJT-X has no radio chosen.  I could never get 
> WSJT-X (or JT65) to attach to the K3 via a LPBRIDGE virtual port.
> If I directly connect to a dedicated serial port rig/wsjtx rig connects OK.  
> Can't live with that.
> 
> Note:  This is WIN7 32 bit and a slightly older version of LPBRIDGE, the 
> latest version of WSJT-X and the computer's internal sound card.
> 
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/23/2018 14:19 PM, Ted Bryant wrote:
>> Hardly.  There is no delay adjustment for VOX activation, just sensitivity.
>> if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly, activation is virtually
>> instantaneous.  It is the VOX release where the delay is adjustable.
>> 
>> 73, Ted W4NZ
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
>> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:55 AM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing
>> 
>> Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.
>> 
>> 73s and thanks,
>> Dave
>> NK7Z
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>> 
>> On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:
>>> He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what
>>> PTT would have?
>>> 
>>> John AE5X
>>> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[brian]

Agree.  Have exclusively used VOX for FT8 and JT65.
The 100+ countries worked apparently saw no issue either.
Don't hear any predominant "others transmitting earlier".  Occasionally 
but that may be their clock.


This is with a K3 not K3S.  WSJT-X has no radio chosen.  I could never 
get WSJT-X (or JT65) to attach to the K3 via a LPBRIDGE virtual port.
If I directly connect to a dedicated serial port rig/wsjtx rig connects 
OK.  Can't live with that.


Note:  This is WIN7 32 bit and a slightly older version of LPBRIDGE, the 
latest version of WSJT-X and the computer's internal sound card.


73 de Brian/K3KO




On 2/23/2018 14:19 PM, Ted Bryant wrote:

Hardly.  There is no delay adjustment for VOX activation, just sensitivity.
if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly, activation is virtually
instantaneous.  It is the VOX release where the delay is adjustable.

73, Ted W4NZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:55 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:

He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what
PTT would have?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Ted Bryant]

Understood, Bob.  

My point was that in the radio, with the VOX correctly adjusted, response to a 
transmit command using VOX is virtually indistinguishable from PTT.  Any 
significant delay is on the release. Agree with you that PTT is the better 
choice.  Only mention VOX because that is what was chosen in the setup in this 
case.

Btw, I copied your setup parameters for my K3 in the WSJT-X setup and I still 
get the same, consistent 1-second delay before audio is transmitted.  This is 
not a problem, for me anyway.  But those who are seeing longer, varying length 
delays, it's puzzling.  Computer OS problems, possibly?

73, Ted W4NZ

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 9:30 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

But there is a delay in WSJT-X.   See the F2 Setup,  Advanced tab and 
Miscellaneous.   Make sure the TX Delay is set to 0.1 sec. This is the time 
delay between PTT and start of audio.  Also, if one uses CAT control, then be 
sure the VOX on the radio is OFF. Don't use both.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 2/23/2018 8:19 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:
> Hardly.  There is no delay adjustment for VOX activation, just sensitivity.
> if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly, activation is virtually
> instantaneous.  It is the VOX release where the delay is adjustable.
>
> 73, Ted W4NZ
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:55 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing
>
> Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave
> NK7Z
> https://www.nk7z.net
>
> On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:
>> He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what
>> PTT would have?
>>
>> John AE5X
>> https://ae5x.blogspot.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Richard]

Tried all that. No joy.

Richard

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 9:16 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <rmcg...@blomand.net> wrote:
> 
> No issues of that type here.   These are my setup numbers:
> 
> Baud Rate = Eight
> 
> Stop Bits = one
> 
> Handshake = None
> 
> PTT method = CAT
> 
> Mode = Data/Pkt
> 
> Split = Rig
> 
> Also under the Advanced tab:  Miscellaneous
> 
> TX Delay = 0.1 sec.
> 
>  I'm not running any other applications such as JT Alert, N1NM, etc.  The 
> computer is connected direct to the K3S with no router, or splitter, or hub  
> and such in the path.
> 
> ***  Be sure the VOX mode on the radio is OFF.  {Very important}
> 
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2018 10:08 PM, Richard wrote:
>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>> From: Richard <flat...@comcast.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing
>>> Date: February 22, 2018 at 11:06:58 PM EST
>>> To: James Bennett <w6...@me.com>
>>> 
>>> I’m fighting the same problem and MORE. It usually goes like this:
>>> 
>>> First FT8 (or JT65) activity of the day, the K3S seems to start on time but 
>>> sometimes shut off quite late. Any band, any power; I don’t use the 
>>> amplifier, so 100 watts is the limit.
>>> 
>>> As time  goes along, the transmission initiation BY THE K3S gets later and 
>>> later, and the shut off time does, too. By late I mean 2 to sometimes 5 
>>> seconds!
>>> 
>>> Eventually, it starts late, then DOESN’T shut off at all.
>>> 
>>> Finally, it doesn’t start at all.
>>> 
>>> I’ve tried just about every imaginable combination of setting on the Radio 
>>> panel and in the Config menu, all with no improvement.
>>> 
>>> In the year or more of enjoying JT65 and then FT8 with my Icom IC-7410, I 
>>> had NONE of these problems, using the same computer and same software. It 
>>> was bang on and trouble free from Day One.
>>> 
>>> You kinda hafta suspect the K3S is the culprit in this, but I’m open to 
>>> anything. If I can’t solve this soon, there will be a virtually brand new 
>>> K3S for sale.
>>> 
>>> Richard - W4KBX
>>> 
>>>> Guys - sorry for the delay in responding to your posts - places to go, 
>>>> things to do, all overriding ham radio for a couple hours.
>>>> 
>>>> It was suggested that I see if I’m out of sync on my computer clock(s). 
>>>> Well, here is the strange thing: the iMac that the K3 is connected to 
>>>> consistently is giving me a DT response of 0.1 to 0.2 on 90% of the 
>>>> decoded stations, so I’m thinking that the default time server the iMac / 
>>>> OSX is connected to is pretty accurate. But it is this rig that starts 
>>>> it’s transmission a bit late.
>>>> 
>>>> The RPi 3 that the KX3 is connected to consistently is giving me DT 
>>>> figures around -0.8 to -0.9. which makes me think my time sync is a little 
>>>> off. But the KX3 connected to this RPi starts right up when it is supposed 
>>>> to. Interestingly, that RPi 3 is connected via short Ethernet to another 
>>>> RPi 3 that runs it’s own GPS-sync’d NTP server. Go figure.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m stumped.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 5:28 PM, Nr4c <n...@widomaker.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> ...nr4c. bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 6:30 PM, James Bennett <w6...@me.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Dennis - how you doing?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry I neglected to provide enough info - was in a hurry to post that 
>>>>>> before I had to run out to pickup kids at school (close to your dads 
>>>>>> QTH!)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am using VOX on both rigs. Each rig has it’s own computer and 
>>>>>> separate, but identical external USB sound cards. The K3 is connected to 
>>>>>> an iMac and the KX3 is connected to a Raspberry Pi 3.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jim / W6JHB
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Dennis Moore <den...

Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Richard]

Initially, I was using CAT. Now I’m trying RTS.

Just called CQ and the K3S never came out of transmit.

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 8:22 AM, Ted Bryant <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I find the same transmit delay when using my Icom 756ProIII as when using my 
> K3.  That indicates the transmit delay is coming from the software, not the 
> radio.
> The delay is consistent, ~ 1 second.  Even so, to me a 1 second delay is not 
> a problem.  On both radios manual PTT is instantaneous.
> 
> Richard, how are you doing PTT -  DTR? RTS? VOX?
> 
> 73, Ted W4NZ
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 12:20 AM
> To: Richard
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing
> 
> RIchard,
> 
> There are no long delays inherent in the K3/K3S transmit timing. It should be 
> ready to transmit RF within 5 to 15 ms of PTT assertion, depending on mode 
> and other factors. 
> 
> My apologies; I have not been closely reading this thread. I’ll come up to 
> speed and get back to you. 
> 
> If this is a transceiver problem, we’ll fix it ASAP. 
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> http://www.elecraft.com
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Richard <flat...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe I’m missing something, but the “timing” problem with which some of us 
>> are fighting has nothing to do with computer clock accuracy. Even if the 
>> computer time is off, it’s the only time reference WSJT-X has to work with.
>> 
>> So the instant the computer tells the software it’s time to transmit, BANG! 
>> WSJT-X goes into transmit RIGHT NOW, as it should, late or not, the software 
>> doesn’t know and doesn’t care.
>> 
>> Our problem is that when WSJT-X goes into Transmit at the top of the new 
>> segment and tells the K3S to transmit, the K3S DOESN’T transmit. Its almost 
>> always late by 2 or 3, sometimes 4 or 5 full seconds. In my case, it 
>> eventually doesn’t transmit AT ALL!
>> 
>> That’s not a software problem or a computer clock problem. It looks like a 
>> K3S problem, and I’d sure like to see the solution before I dump this radio.
>> 
>> Richard - W4KBX
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:36 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <rmcg...@blomand.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you are seeing a majority of the decodes in which the DT is less than 
>>> <0.5 seconds, your computer clock is close enough for reliable contacts and 
>>> decodes.   The software should handle decodes with a DT up to 2.0 seconds, 
>>> but in many cases this depends largely {very largely in fact} on signal 
>>> quality.  Both as transmitted and received.
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/22/2018 7:28 PM, Nr4c wrote:
>>>> Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> ...nr4c. bill
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

My concern with using VOX is that the radio has to receive audio before 
it goes into transmit.  Thus one can almost be assured some data will be 
lost.   Hence I find the better PTT choice is CAT with a 0.1 second TX 
delay before audio is sent to the radio from the software.  This is all 
available from the F2 Setup menu in WSJT-X.


73

Bob, K4TAX



On 2/23/2018 8:45 AM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
You state, "if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly" which is an 
unknown at this point, so yes, it could be VOX.


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 06:19 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:
Hardly.  There is no delay adjustment for VOX activation, just 
sensitivity.

if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly, activation is virtually
instantaneous.  It is the VOX release where the delay is adjustable.

73, Ted W4NZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:55 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:

He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what
PTT would have?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

You state, "if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly" which is an unknown 
at this point, so yes, it could be VOX.


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 06:19 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:

Hardly.  There is no delay adjustment for VOX activation, just sensitivity.
if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly, activation is virtually
instantaneous.  It is the VOX release where the delay is adjustable.

73, Ted W4NZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:55 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:

He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what
PTT would have?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Wes Stewart]

Before I abandoned the use of FT8, and after FT8 was fixed to remove delay 
issues with K3s, I used VOX exclusively.  Same is true on CW, SSB and RTTY.


Wes  N7WS

On 2/23/2018 6:55 AM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:

He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what PTT
would have?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

But there is a delay in WSJT-X.   See the F2 Setup,  Advanced tab and 
Miscellaneous.   Make sure the TX Delay is set to 0.1 sec. This is the 
time delay between PTT and start of audio.  Also, if one uses CAT 
control, then be sure the VOX on the radio is OFF. Don't use both.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 2/23/2018 8:19 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:

Hardly.  There is no delay adjustment for VOX activation, just sensitivity.
if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly, activation is virtually
instantaneous.  It is the VOX release where the delay is adjustable.

73, Ted W4NZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:55 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:

He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what
PTT would have?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Ted Bryant]

Hardly.  There is no delay adjustment for VOX activation, just sensitivity.
if the VOX sensitivity is set correctly, activation is virtually
instantaneous.  It is the VOX release where the delay is adjustable.

73, Ted W4NZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:55 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:
> He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what 
> PTT would have?
> 
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Yes!  I never use VOX for that reason.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/23/2018 05:48 AM, John Harper wrote:

He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what PTT
would have?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

I use my K3 on FT8 daily, and have never had a long delay, not once, I 
have used both one stop bit, and two stop bits, and can see no 
difference between the two.


Is it possible something is autobauding?  I have every thing set 
explicitly to 38.4K.  The WSJT-S software, the com port on the computer, 
and the radio.  Nothing is searching for speeds...


Many people forget that the computer might auto search for speed if not 
set to the speed presented to the com port.


I am running 38K speed, and have set the computer to do 38.4K as well. 
I would look to my computer for the delay, not the K3, unless the K3 is 
broken...  My K3 is in RS242 B mode at 38.4K.


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/22/2018 09:19 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

RIchard,

There are no long delays inherent in the K3/K3S transmit timing. It should be 
ready to transmit RF within 5 to 15 ms of PTT assertion, depending on mode and 
other factors.

My apologies; I have not been closely reading this thread. I’ll come up to 
speed and get back to you.

If this is a transceiver problem, we’ll fix it ASAP.

Wayne
N6KR


http://www.elecraft.com


On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Richard  wrote:

Maybe I’m missing something, but the “timing” problem with which some of us are 
fighting has nothing to do with computer clock accuracy. Even if the computer 
time is off, it’s the only time reference WSJT-X has to work with.

So the instant the computer tells the software it’s time to transmit, BANG! 
WSJT-X goes into transmit RIGHT NOW, as it should, late or not, the software 
doesn’t know and doesn’t care.

Our problem is that when WSJT-X goes into Transmit at the top of the new 
segment and tells the K3S to transmit, the K3S DOESN’T transmit. Its almost 
always late by 2 or 3, sometimes 4 or 5 full seconds. In my case, it eventually 
doesn’t transmit AT ALL!

That’s not a software problem or a computer clock problem. It looks like a K3S 
problem, and I’d sure like to see the solution before I dump this radio.

Richard - W4KBX


On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:36 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

If you are seeing a majority of the decodes in which the DT is less than <0.5 
seconds, your computer clock is close enough for reliable contacts and decodes.   
The software should handle decodes with a DT up to 2.0 seconds, but in many cases 
this depends largely {very largely in fact} on signal quality.  Both as 
transmitted and received.

73

Bob, K4TAX




On 2/22/2018 7:28 PM, Nr4c wrote:
Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[John Harper]

He's using VOX. Does that not introduce an additional delay over what PTT
would have?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Ted Bryant]

I find the same transmit delay when using my Icom 756ProIII as when using my 
K3.  That indicates the transmit delay is coming from the software, not the 
radio.
The delay is consistent, ~ 1 second.  Even so, to me a 1 second delay is not a 
problem.  On both radios manual PTT is instantaneous.

Richard, how are you doing PTT -  DTR? RTS? VOX?

73, Ted W4NZ
 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 12:20 AM
To: Richard
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

RIchard,

There are no long delays inherent in the K3/K3S transmit timing. It should be 
ready to transmit RF within 5 to 15 ms of PTT assertion, depending on mode and 
other factors. 

My apologies; I have not been closely reading this thread. I’ll come up to 
speed and get back to you. 

If this is a transceiver problem, we’ll fix it ASAP. 

Wayne
N6KR


http://www.elecraft.com

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Richard <flat...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Maybe I’m missing something, but the “timing” problem with which some of us 
> are fighting has nothing to do with computer clock accuracy. Even if the 
> computer time is off, it’s the only time reference WSJT-X has to work with.
> 
> So the instant the computer tells the software it’s time to transmit, BANG! 
> WSJT-X goes into transmit RIGHT NOW, as it should, late or not, the software 
> doesn’t know and doesn’t care.
> 
> Our problem is that when WSJT-X goes into Transmit at the top of the new 
> segment and tells the K3S to transmit, the K3S DOESN’T transmit. Its almost 
> always late by 2 or 3, sometimes 4 or 5 full seconds. In my case, it 
> eventually doesn’t transmit AT ALL!
> 
> That’s not a software problem or a computer clock problem. It looks like a 
> K3S problem, and I’d sure like to see the solution before I dump this radio.
> 
> Richard - W4KBX
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:36 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <rmcg...@blomand.net> wrote:
>> 
>> If you are seeing a majority of the decodes in which the DT is less than 
>> <0.5 seconds, your computer clock is close enough for reliable contacts and 
>> decodes.   The software should handle decodes with a DT up to 2.0 seconds, 
>> but in many cases this depends largely {very largely in fact} on signal 
>> quality.  Both as transmitted and received.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/22/2018 7:28 PM, Nr4c wrote:
>>> Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ...nr4c. bill

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[RIchard Williams via Elecraft]

 Richard,
I had a similar problem with the K3S not stopping transmit.  Finally fixed it 
by changing the stop bit in the radio settings from two to one.
Dick, K8ZTT 
On Thursday, February 22, 2018, 9:32:59 PM MST, Richard 
 wrote:  
 
 Maybe I’m missing something, but the “timing” problem with which some of us 
are fighting has nothing to do with computer clock accuracy. Even if the 
computer time is off, it’s the only time reference WSJT-X has to work with.

So the instant the computer tells the software it’s time to transmit, BANG! 
WSJT-X goes into transmit RIGHT NOW, as it should, late or not, the software 
doesn’t know and doesn’t care.

Our problem is that when WSJT-X goes into Transmit at the top of the new 
segment and tells the K3S to transmit, the K3S DOESN’T transmit. Its almost 
always late by 2 or 3, sometimes 4 or 5 full seconds. In my case, it eventually 
doesn’t transmit AT ALL!

That’s not a software problem or a computer clock problem. It looks like a K3S 
problem, and I’d sure like to see the solution before I dump this radio.

Richard - W4KBX

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:36 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> If you are seeing a majority of the decodes in which the DT is less than <0.5 
> seconds, your computer clock is close enough for reliable contacts and 
> decodes.  The software should handle decodes with a DT up to 2.0 seconds, but 
> in many cases this depends largely {very largely in fact} on signal quality.  
> Both as transmitted and received.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2018 7:28 PM, Nr4c wrote:
>> Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...nr4c. bill
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Wayne Burdick]

RIchard,

There are no long delays inherent in the K3/K3S transmit timing. It should be 
ready to transmit RF within 5 to 15 ms of PTT assertion, depending on mode and 
other factors. 

My apologies; I have not been closely reading this thread. I’ll come up to 
speed and get back to you. 

If this is a transceiver problem, we’ll fix it ASAP. 

Wayne 
N6KR


http://www.elecraft.com

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Richard  wrote:
> 
> Maybe I’m missing something, but the “timing” problem with which some of us 
> are fighting has nothing to do with computer clock accuracy. Even if the 
> computer time is off, it’s the only time reference WSJT-X has to work with.
> 
> So the instant the computer tells the software it’s time to transmit, BANG! 
> WSJT-X goes into transmit RIGHT NOW, as it should, late or not, the software 
> doesn’t know and doesn’t care.
> 
> Our problem is that when WSJT-X goes into Transmit at the top of the new 
> segment and tells the K3S to transmit, the K3S DOESN’T transmit. Its almost 
> always late by 2 or 3, sometimes 4 or 5 full seconds. In my case, it 
> eventually doesn’t transmit AT ALL!
> 
> That’s not a software problem or a computer clock problem. It looks like a 
> K3S problem, and I’d sure like to see the solution before I dump this radio.
> 
> Richard - W4KBX
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:36 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>> 
>> If you are seeing a majority of the decodes in which the DT is less than 
>> <0.5 seconds, your computer clock is close enough for reliable contacts and 
>> decodes.   The software should handle decodes with a DT up to 2.0 seconds, 
>> but in many cases this depends largely {very largely in fact} on signal 
>> quality.  Both as transmitted and received.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/22/2018 7:28 PM, Nr4c wrote:
>>> Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ...nr4c. bill
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Richard]

Maybe I’m missing something, but the “timing” problem with which some of us are 
fighting has nothing to do with computer clock accuracy. Even if the computer 
time is off, it’s the only time reference WSJT-X has to work with.

So the instant the computer tells the software it’s time to transmit, BANG! 
WSJT-X goes into transmit RIGHT NOW, as it should, late or not, the software 
doesn’t know and doesn’t care.

Our problem is that when WSJT-X goes into Transmit at the top of the new 
segment and tells the K3S to transmit, the K3S DOESN’T transmit. Its almost 
always late by 2 or 3, sometimes 4 or 5 full seconds. In my case, it eventually 
doesn’t transmit AT ALL!

That’s not a software problem or a computer clock problem. It looks like a K3S 
problem, and I’d sure like to see the solution before I dump this radio.

Richard - W4KBX

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:36 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> If you are seeing a majority of the decodes in which the DT is less than <0.5 
> seconds, your computer clock is close enough for reliable contacts and 
> decodes.   The software should handle decodes with a DT up to 2.0 seconds, 
> but in many cases this depends largely {very largely in fact} on signal 
> quality.  Both as transmitted and received.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2018 7:28 PM, Nr4c wrote:
>> Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...nr4c. bill
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[James Bennett]

Guys - sorry for the delay in responding to your posts - places to go, things 
to do, all overriding ham radio for a couple hours.

It was suggested that I see if I’m out of sync on my computer clock(s). Well, 
here is the strange thing: the iMac that the K3 is connected to consistently is 
giving me a DT response of 0.1 to 0.2 on 90% of the decoded stations, so I’m 
thinking that the default time server the iMac / OSX is connected to is pretty 
accurate. But it is this rig that starts it’s transmission a bit late.

The RPi 3 that the KX3 is connected to consistently is giving me DT figures 
around -0.8 to -0.9. which makes me think my time sync is a little off. But the 
KX3 connected to this RPi starts right up when it is supposed to. 
Interestingly, that RPi 3 is connected via short Ethernet to another RPi 3 that 
runs it’s own GPS-sync’d NTP server. Go figure.

I’m stumped.



> On Feb 22, 2018, at 5:28 PM, Nr4c  wrote:
> 
> Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
> 
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 6:30 PM, James Bennett  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Dennis - how you doing?
>> 
>> Sorry I neglected to provide enough info - was in a hurry to post that 
>> before I had to run out to pickup kids at school (close to your dads QTH!)
>> 
>> I am using VOX on both rigs. Each rig has it’s own computer and separate, 
>> but identical external USB sound cards. The K3 is connected to an iMac and 
>> the KX3 is connected to a Raspberry Pi 3.
>> 
>> Jim / W6JHB
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Dennis Moore  wrote:
>>> 
>>> How are you keying the K3, VOX or PTT?
>>> 
>>> It's not clear from the email, are the K3 and KX3  on separate computers on 
>>> just different sound cards in the same computer?
>>> 
>>> 73, Dennis NJ6G
>>> 
>>> 
 On 2/22/2018 14:22, James Bennett wrote:
 Got a question about using my K3 with WSJT-X 1.8.0 with FT8
 
 I started looking at the “time bar” in WSJT-X and when the K3’s red TX 
 light comes on with the meter showing RF going out. It is between 1.5 and 
 2 seconds after the beginning of the new 15 second sequence! In that short 
 duration, I am hearing other stations’ signals coming through on my 
 headphones, so I know that other folks are getting their rig to transmit 
 right at the start of the 15 second sequence. If mine is coming on 1.5 - 2 
 seconds late, I’m thinking I may not always get decoded on the other end.
 
 So, I switched over to my KX3 running the same version of WSJT-X and 
 observed what happened there. No delay - when the new 15 second sequence 
 starts, the KX3 goes into transmit almost immediately.
 
 Both the KX3 and the K3 are connected to two identical Tascam USB125M 
 external sound cards.
 
 Is there some setting on the K3 that is causing my transmissions to fire 
 off a tad late?
 
 Jim / W6JHB
>>> 
>>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

If you are seeing a majority of the decodes in which the DT is less than 
<0.5 seconds, your computer clock is close enough for reliable contacts 
and decodes.   The software should handle decodes with a DT up to 2.0 
seconds, but in many cases this depends largely {very largely in fact} 
on signal quality.  Both as transmitted and received.


73

Bob, K4TAX



On 2/22/2018 7:28 PM, Nr4c wrote:

Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill



On Feb 22, 2018, at 6:30 PM, James Bennett  wrote:

Hi Dennis - how you doing?

Sorry I neglected to provide enough info - was in a hurry to post that before I 
had to run out to pickup kids at school (close to your dads QTH!)

I am using VOX on both rigs. Each rig has it’s own computer and separate, but 
identical external USB sound cards. The K3 is connected to an iMac and the KX3 
is connected to a Raspberry Pi 3.

Jim / W6JHB




On Feb 22, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Dennis Moore  wrote:

How are you keying the K3, VOX or PTT?

It's not clear from the email, are the K3 and KX3  on separate computers on 
just different sound cards in the same computer?

73, Dennis NJ6G



On 2/22/2018 14:22, James Bennett wrote:
Got a question about using my K3 with WSJT-X 1.8.0 with FT8

I started looking at the “time bar” in WSJT-X and when the K3’s red TX light 
comes on with the meter showing RF going out. It is between 1.5 and 2 seconds 
after the beginning of the new 15 second sequence! In that short duration, I am 
hearing other stations’ signals coming through on my headphones, so I know that 
other folks are getting their rig to transmit right at the start of the 15 
second sequence. If mine is coming on 1.5 - 2 seconds late, I’m thinking I may 
not always get decoded on the other end.

So, I switched over to my KX3 running the same version of WSJT-X and observed 
what happened there. No delay - when the new 15 second sequence starts, the KX3 
goes into transmit almost immediately.

Both the KX3 and the K3 are connected to two identical Tascam USB125M external 
sound cards.

Is there some setting on the K3 that is causing my transmissions to fire off a 
tad late?

Jim / W6JHB

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Nr4c]

Check the clocks on the computers. Sync them to a time server. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Feb 22, 2018, at 6:30 PM, James Bennett  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dennis - how you doing?
> 
> Sorry I neglected to provide enough info - was in a hurry to post that before 
> I had to run out to pickup kids at school (close to your dads QTH!)
> 
> I am using VOX on both rigs. Each rig has it’s own computer and separate, but 
> identical external USB sound cards. The K3 is connected to an iMac and the 
> KX3 is connected to a Raspberry Pi 3.
> 
> Jim / W6JHB
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Dennis Moore  wrote:
>> 
>> How are you keying the K3, VOX or PTT?
>> 
>> It's not clear from the email, are the K3 and KX3  on separate computers on 
>> just different sound cards in the same computer?
>> 
>> 73, Dennis NJ6G
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/22/2018 14:22, James Bennett wrote:
>>> Got a question about using my K3 with WSJT-X 1.8.0 with FT8
>>> 
>>> I started looking at the “time bar” in WSJT-X and when the K3’s red TX 
>>> light comes on with the meter showing RF going out. It is between 1.5 and 2 
>>> seconds after the beginning of the new 15 second sequence! In that short 
>>> duration, I am hearing other stations’ signals coming through on my 
>>> headphones, so I know that other folks are getting their rig to transmit 
>>> right at the start of the 15 second sequence. If mine is coming on 1.5 - 2 
>>> seconds late, I’m thinking I may not always get decoded on the other end.
>>> 
>>> So, I switched over to my KX3 running the same version of WSJT-X and 
>>> observed what happened there. No delay - when the new 15 second sequence 
>>> starts, the KX3 goes into transmit almost immediately.
>>> 
>>> Both the KX3 and the K3 are connected to two identical Tascam USB125M 
>>> external sound cards.
>>> 
>>> Is there some setting on the K3 that is causing my transmissions to fire 
>>> off a tad late?
>>> 
>>> Jim / W6JHB
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Within WSJT-X there is a slight delay between the time the PTT command 
is issues and the start of DATA audio.   The value is established via 
the F2 setup menu, Advanced page, under Miscellaneous.    Additionally 
if you are using VOX control via the radio, this delay of audio is very 
apparent.   I suggest you configure for CAT control.  Also, if you are 
using VOX the VOX delay must time out before the radio returns to receive.


Depending on other applications which may be running on the computer, 
the lag time due to processor activity may be apparent as well.   And 
there is processor timing activities within the radio which adds delay 
time to transitions.


I find CAT control to be preferable to VOX control.

73

Bob


On 2/22/2018 4:22 PM, James Bennett wrote:

Got a question about using my K3 with WSJT-X 1.8.0 with FT8

I started looking at the “time bar” in WSJT-X and when the K3’s red TX light 
comes on with the meter showing RF going out. It is between 1.5 and 2 seconds 
after the beginning of the new 15 second sequence! In that short duration, I am 
hearing other stations’ signals coming through on my headphones, so I know that 
other folks are getting their rig to transmit right at the start of the 15 
second sequence. If mine is coming on 1.5 - 2 seconds late, I’m thinking I may 
not always get decoded on the other end.

So, I switched over to my KX3 running the same version of WSJT-X and observed 
what happened there. No delay - when the new 15 second sequence starts, the KX3 
goes into transmit almost immediately.

Both the KX3 and the K3 are connected to two identical Tascam USB125M external 
sound cards.

Is there some setting on the K3 that is causing my transmissions to fire off a 
tad late?

Jim / W6JHB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Jim - N4ST]

Jim,

Since you are using separate computers, are you sure the time is correct on 
your K3S computer?
Since you are using separate computers, can you monitor your K3S transmissions 
on your KX3 system and see what delay it is showing?

_ 
73,
Jim - N4ST

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James Bennett
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 18:30
To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

Hi Dennis - how you doing?

Sorry I neglected to provide enough info - was in a hurry to post that before I 
had to run out to pickup kids at school (close to your dads QTH!)

I am using VOX on both rigs. Each rig has it’s own computer and separate, but 
identical external USB sound cards. The K3 is connected to an iMac and the KX3 
is connected to a Raspberry Pi 3.

Jim / W6JHB



> On Feb 22, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Dennis Moore <den...@mail4life.net> wrote:
> 
> How are you keying the K3, VOX or PTT?
> 
> It's not clear from the email, are the K3 and KX3  on separate computers on 
> just different sound cards in the same computer?
> 
> 73, Dennis NJ6G
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2018 14:22, James Bennett wrote:
>> Got a question about using my K3 with WSJT-X 1.8.0 with FT8
>> 
>> I started looking at the “time bar” in WSJT-X and when the K3’s red TX light 
>> comes on with the meter showing RF going out. It is between 1.5 and 2 
>> seconds after the beginning of the new 15 second sequence! In that short 
>> duration, I am hearing other stations’ signals coming through on my 
>> headphones, so I know that other folks are getting their rig to transmit 
>> right at the start of the 15 second sequence. If mine is coming on 1.5 - 2 
>> seconds late, I’m thinking I may not always get decoded on the other end.
>> 
>> So, I switched over to my KX3 running the same version of WSJT-X and 
>> observed what happened there. No delay - when the new 15 second sequence 
>> starts, the KX3 goes into transmit almost immediately.
>> 
>> Both the KX3 and the K3 are connected to two identical Tascam USB125M 
>> external sound cards.
>> 
>> Is there some setting on the K3 that is causing my transmissions to fire off 
>> a tad late?
>> 
>> Jim / W6JHB
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[James Bennett]

Hi Dennis - how you doing?

Sorry I neglected to provide enough info - was in a hurry to post that before I 
had to run out to pickup kids at school (close to your dads QTH!)

I am using VOX on both rigs. Each rig has it’s own computer and separate, but 
identical external USB sound cards. The K3 is connected to an iMac and the KX3 
is connected to a Raspberry Pi 3.

Jim / W6JHB



> On Feb 22, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Dennis Moore  wrote:
> 
> How are you keying the K3, VOX or PTT?
> 
> It's not clear from the email, are the K3 and KX3  on separate computers on 
> just different sound cards in the same computer?
> 
> 73, Dennis NJ6G
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2018 14:22, James Bennett wrote:
>> Got a question about using my K3 with WSJT-X 1.8.0 with FT8
>> 
>> I started looking at the “time bar” in WSJT-X and when the K3’s red TX light 
>> comes on with the meter showing RF going out. It is between 1.5 and 2 
>> seconds after the beginning of the new 15 second sequence! In that short 
>> duration, I am hearing other stations’ signals coming through on my 
>> headphones, so I know that other folks are getting their rig to transmit 
>> right at the start of the 15 second sequence. If mine is coming on 1.5 - 2 
>> seconds late, I’m thinking I may not always get decoded on the other end.
>> 
>> So, I switched over to my KX3 running the same version of WSJT-X and 
>> observed what happened there. No delay - when the new 15 second sequence 
>> starts, the KX3 goes into transmit almost immediately.
>> 
>> Both the KX3 and the K3 are connected to two identical Tascam USB125M 
>> external sound cards.
>> 
>> Is there some setting on the K3 that is causing my transmissions to fire off 
>> a tad late?
>> 
>> Jim / W6JHB
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[Dennis Moore]

How are you keying the K3, VOX or PTT?

It's not clear from the email, are the K3 and KX3  on separate computers 
on just different sound cards in the same computer?


73, Dennis NJ6G


On 2/22/2018 14:22, James Bennett wrote:

Got a question about using my K3 with WSJT-X 1.8.0 with FT8

I started looking at the “time bar” in WSJT-X and when the K3’s red TX light 
comes on with the meter showing RF going out. It is between 1.5 and 2 seconds 
after the beginning of the new 15 second sequence! In that short duration, I am 
hearing other stations’ signals coming through on my headphones, so I know that 
other folks are getting their rig to transmit right at the start of the 15 
second sequence. If mine is coming on 1.5 - 2 seconds late, I’m thinking I may 
not always get decoded on the other end.

So, I switched over to my KX3 running the same version of WSJT-X and observed 
what happened there. No delay - when the new 15 second sequence starts, the KX3 
goes into transmit almost immediately.

Both the KX3 and the K3 are connected to two identical Tascam USB125M external 
sound cards.

Is there some setting on the K3 that is causing my transmissions to fire off a 
tad late?

Jim / W6JHB


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[Elecraft] K3 And WSJT-X FT8 Timing

[James Bennett]

Got a question about using my K3 with WSJT-X 1.8.0 with FT8

I started looking at the “time bar” in WSJT-X and when the K3’s red TX light 
comes on with the meter showing RF going out. It is between 1.5 and 2 seconds 
after the beginning of the new 15 second sequence! In that short duration, I am 
hearing other stations’ signals coming through on my headphones, so I know that 
other folks are getting their rig to transmit right at the start of the 15 
second sequence. If mine is coming on 1.5 - 2 seconds late, I’m thinking I may 
not always get decoded on the other end.

So, I switched over to my KX3 running the same version of WSJT-X and observed 
what happened there. No delay - when the new 15 second sequence starts, the KX3 
goes into transmit almost immediately.

Both the KX3 and the K3 are connected to two identical Tascam USB125M external 
sound cards. 

Is there some setting on the K3 that is causing my transmissions to fire off a 
tad late?

Jim / W6JHB
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