Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 22:55:46 Ken Strauss wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 10:34 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
> >
> > On Friday 22 March 2019 15:17:43 Ken Strauss wrote:
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:52 PM
> > > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
> > > >
> > > > On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:
> > > > > Hi Gene,
> > > > >
> > > > > > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex
> > > > > > joints, probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > > > > > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow,
> > > > > > so haven't made any chips yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Considering the price of these coolant units
> > > > >  > > > >tem- for- CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835>
> > > >
> > > > neither ships to the states.
> > >
> > > Try
> > > https://www.banggood.com/OD-2mm-x-1_6mm-ID-304-Stainless-Steel-
> >
> > Capilla
> >
> > >ry-Tub e-Length-500mm-Stainless-Pipe-p-1035176.html
> >
> > Way too big, Ken.  Thanks.
>
> It is the same size as that recommended by Les (2mm OD, 1.6mm ID).
>
The stuff I just bought 16 feet of is .029" bore  or 0.7366mm
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 18:52:54 Lester Caine wrote:

> On 22/03/2019 22:46, Bruce Layne wrote:
> > I use FreeCAD, mostly for 3D printing.  It's still not ready for
> > prime time and doesn't have a usable CAM system so it's not a
> > possible replacement for Fusion 360, but it's a viable CAD option
> > for me when Fusion 360 isn't.
>
> Sorry I have to disagree with that ... I'm running perfectly good
> gcode for the Taig mill from FreeCAD. Yes for 3D printing one of the
> other slicer options is required, but for 2.5D machining it works well
> enough and is improving all the time.

If its being improved Lester, why has the downloadable been stuck at 
version .14 for several years? I take it back, the last 32 bit release 
that will run on the wheezy LiveCD install is .14, but I see .17 is 
available for 64 bit installs now. So you have to reboot to a 64 bit 
install to use it.  Is it worth setting up a dual boot?


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 10:34 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> On Friday 22 March 2019 15:17:43 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:52 PM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
> > >
> > > On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:
> > > > Hi Gene,
> > > >
> > > > > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > > > > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > > > > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > > > > haven't made any chips yet.
> > > >
> > > > Considering the price of these coolant units
> > > >  > > >for- CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835>
> > >
> > > neither ships to the states.
> >
> > Try
> > https://www.banggood.com/OD-2mm-x-1_6mm-ID-304-Stainless-Steel-
> Capilla
> >ry-Tub e-Length-500mm-Stainless-Pipe-p-1035176.html
> >
> Way too big, Ken.  Thanks.

It is the same size as that recommended by Les (2mm OD, 1.6mm ID).




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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 18:46:41 Bruce Layne wrote:

> Being an unrepentant capitalist, I must admit that commercial software
> has much to recommend it.  There is money to pay programmers to
> develop stable and feature rich software, and market forces keep the
> product customer focused so the market gets the features that
> customers want. When Fusion 360 launched, I signed up on the AutoDesk
> forum to ask for a native Linux version.  The AutoDesk administrator
> told me that despite not being too much effort given the cross
> platform development tools they use to make the Windows and Mac
> version, there would never be a Linux version because Linux users
> won't pay for software.  That was an odd thing to tell me, given that
> I had long ago paid $1250 for Eagle electronic CAD software,
> specifically because they offered a very good native Linux version,
> and I paid annual maintenance fees for years after the initial
> "purchase."  Do we ever really own software?
>
> I wasn't impressed with the AutoDesk attitude, which was slightly less
> offensive than Microsoft's "Linux is cancer" public statement on open
> source software.
>
> Part of me was relieved.  Even though I wouldn't have the advantage of
> the rich features and rising industry standard that Fusion 360
> represented, I wouldn't be setting myself up for another proprietary
> software ambush.  AutoDesk had done that to me before.  They sold me
> on AutoSketch which, as an electrical engineer was all of the
> mechanical CAD software I'd need.  Then they discontinued AutoSketch
> at the moment that I learned enough to be productive and unilaterally
> converted my license to an AutoCAD Lite license.  AutoCAD Lite
> required a completely new learning curve, so I was forced to start
> over.  They charged me the higher AutoCAD Lite maintenance fees while
> constantly nagging me to upgrade to the complicated and expensive full
> blown AutoCAD that I didn't want or need.  None of the drawings that I
> created in AutoSketch could be used.  There was no import or
> conversion to AutoCAD Lite.  The hundreds of hours I spent in
> AutoSketch was a completely wasted effort. I got the impression that
> AutoDesk viewed their entry level products as marketing tools to hook
> new users so they could be up sold on their more expensive CAD
> software.  It was a marketing approach that was not customer oriented.
>
> At the time, AutoCAD was still a 2D CAD package, but they had tacked
> on some kludge 3D features.  Meanwhile, smaller and leaner software
> companies had introduced true 3D CAD.  Many still exist but SolidWorks
> emerged as the big winner.  AutoDesk was suddenly at the back of the
> pack and disappeared in the rear view mirror for a few years.  Fusion
> 360 is their attempt to recapture the market they lost through
> complacency.  I can't help but feel that once AutoDesk has herded the
> majority of the CAD market back into a near AutoDesk monopoly, they'll
> start putting the screws to the users again.
>
> I have no interest in AutoDesk's proprietary Fusion 360 file format
> that uses the files that I create to hold me hostage.  I have even
> less interest in sharing my data on their cloud.
>
> I use FreeCAD, mostly for 3D printing.  It's still not ready for prime
> time and doesn't have a usable CAM system so it's not a possible
> replacement for Fusion 360, but it's a viable CAD option for me when
> Fusion 360 isn't.
>
> If there was no FreeCAD, I'd use OpenSCAD long before I'd use Fusion
> 360.  Free Open Source Software for the win.  I wish there was some
> effective method to leverage the advantages of commercial software and
> FOSS.  I'd like to be able to pool my financial donations with those
> of other users to encourage open source software developers to
> implement new features.

We freebies need a lot more of that attitude. Sure, free is nice but one 
should never forget TANSTAAFL. AKA somebody has to buy lunch.  Or a 
bunch of somebody's take up a collection to make the coders mortgage 
payments.  Can it be made to work? Maybe, but its us that have to change 
our attitude to make it work.
>
> On 3/22/2019 5:14 PM, Jeff Johnson wrote:
> > Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?
> >
> > Using  ShopCam for simple 2.5D work, VisualCam for 3 or more axis
> > work, using Alibre Cad for 3D Drwaing and creation as well as
> > ProgeCad for 2D Drawings.
> >
> > With this combo there is not much we can't handle but maintenance
> > agreements
> > and updates do get cumbersome.
> >
> >  
> > I am worried about moving to the cloud based system but I guess it's
> > the future.
> >
> >  
> > What are this groups thoughts if any?
> >
> >  
> > Jeff Johnson
> >
> > john...@superiorroll.com
> >
> > Superior Roll & Turning
> >
> > 734-279-1831
> >  
>
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Cheers, Gene 

Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Dave Matthews]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 22:32 Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 03/22/2019 04:14 PM, Jeff Johnson wrote:
> > Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?
> >
> >
> We just got set up with Autocad Inventor at work.  While
> very capable, and it has lots of good CAM strategies, it is
> SO COMPLICATED!  We have one guy here who got good with it,
> so I let my meager skills lapse, and now I barely know how
> to view a document.
>
> I think Fusion is a very similar program.
>
> Jon
>

The Lars Christensen Fusion 360 videos on YouTube are very good.  Lars
works for Autodesk.

Dave

>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Jon Elson]

On 03/22/2019 05:46 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:

   AutoDesk had done that to me before.  They sold me on
AutoSketch which, as an electrical engineer was all of the mechanical
CAD software I'd need.  Then they discontinued AutoSketch at the moment
that I learned enough to be productive and unilaterally converted my
license to an AutoCAD Lite license.  AutoCAD Lite required a completely
new learning curve, so I was forced to start over.
And, this is why I will NEVER trust Autocad!  They've done 
this several times over the years, as well as making sure 
that documents created today cannot be read on last year's 
version of the software.  That REALLY bugs me!


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Jon Elson]

On 03/22/2019 07:42 PM, Lester Caine wrote:

On 22/03/2019 23:28, Bruce Layne wrote:

I'm still running FreeCAD 0.16, which is over a year old


0.18 is available but not released formally and has some 
VERY useful additions,
I tried 0.18 (I think) maybe too soon after release, and 
while the CAD seemed to work fine, the CAM had some problems.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 15:17:43 Ken Strauss wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:52 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
> >
> > On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:
> > > Hi Gene,
> > >
> > > > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > > > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > > > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > > > haven't made any chips yet.
> > >
> > > Considering the price of these coolant units
> > >  > >for- CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835>
> >
> > neither ships to the states.
>
> Try
> https://www.banggood.com/OD-2mm-x-1_6mm-ID-304-Stainless-Steel-Capilla
>ry-Tub e-Length-500mm-Stainless-Pipe-p-1035176.html
>
Way too big, Ken.  Thanks.
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 14:41:33 Les Newell wrote:

> > neither ships to the states.
>
> Sure they do
> lant-Lubrication-Spray-System-Unit/283340566564>
> be-1-6-2-3-4-10mm-OD-250mm-Length/222945548060>
>
> Les

Not from the previously posted links, Less.  And its a bit late, the 
plumbing is complete but not tested. I drilled into the side of the 
mounting block to borrow the pop bottle air, setting a piece of 1/8" OD 
brass pipe into the hole with some super glue. And found when I found my 
stock of model makers brass tubing, that I had a foot of 1/16" OD which 
will make the needed flow restriction so thats now between the pickup in 
the bottle, and the little fluid line, taped down on top of the gantry 
frame with enough of the 1/8" ID line to allow X to move full travel. 
It'll get tested when the superglue is hard. Probably could right now, 
its had around 3 hours to cure.

Hilitchi supplied the coke lid fittings, inserted into a puddle of gell 
glue from the inside of the coke lid. The only problem is a lack of a 
broom clip to grab the lid with to keep the coke bottle from jiggling 
loose as the gantry moves, there are none of those broom clip puppies 
for sale in the county. Walmart folks weren't sure they even knew what 
they were! Sigh...  Might have to rig a miniature bungee cord to hold 
it.

Yeah, go work the air hose onto the brass pipe & test it right about now.

Nope, a foot of 1/16 inch od brass pipe is still about 40x too much 
liquid. Drained 3 ounces out of the coke bottle in around 2 minutes and 
would have washed the workpiece clean. Even turned down to about 5 psi, 
huge slobbery drops, not a spray at all. At 20 psig, about the right 
amount of atomization but aimed straight out, it only sagged about 4" in 
3 feet, way too strong. So I just bought some more even smaller stuffs
, still cheaper than a quality 
needle valve. But I am getting frustrated trying to find the stuff to 
make an idea actually work. Next would be a spring loaded blowoff to 
limit bottle pressure, at risk of losing more air. In which case I'll  
put this small bore in series going to the bottle to limit the air flow.

Some of Rube Goldbergs patents will have nothing on me...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Jon Elson]

On 03/22/2019 04:14 PM, Jeff Johnson wrote:

Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?


We just got set up with Autocad Inventor at work.  While 
very capable, and it has lots of good CAM strategies, it is 
SO COMPLICATED!  We have one guy here who got good with it, 
so I let my meager skills lapse, and now I barely know how 
to view a document.


I think Fusion is a very similar program.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] problem DH parameters manipulator arm

[yomin estiven jaramillo munera]

Hi chris, i would like ask you something, based on you said , I need to
figure out how my elbow angle is moved in function to my base angle, and
after this i will need to add this function to my kinematics file, in that
case i would be using the DH parameters so, i should modificate genserkins,
shouldn't I?
do you have maybe some file which can help me about this function?

El jue., 21 de mar. de 2019 a la(s) 14:15, Chris Albertson (
albertson.ch...@gmail.com) escribió:

> I think what you have is a circular link.That means a
> parallelogram type geometry.  I have a robot arm like this too but mine
> is MUCH smaller and lower cost.
>
> Mine is nearly identical to this arm on Amazon.
> .amazon.com/Blesiya-Professional-Aluminum-Mechanical-Educational
> <
> https://www.amazon.com/Blesiya-Professional-Aluminum-Mechanical-Educational/dp/B07LCNBJJL/ref=sr_1_16?keywords=6dof+arm&qid=1553194112&s=gateway&sr=8-16
> >
>
> Notice that these are two motors on the shoulder and the "elbow" is pushed
> by a link.  I think we have the same geometries, except for scale.
> The way to model it using DH is to re-draw the robot arm.   Make a paper
> drawing of an equivalent arm that has a motor on each axis and no
> circular links and no passive links.You WILL need to transform the
> shaft angle of the moved motor.
>
> I don't use MK for this.  I like "move it" but still DH parameters really
> only work for serial links so the trick is to model your arm as a serial
> link arm, just pretend the elbow motor is on that elbow and it's shaft
> angle is a function of the base motor shaft angle.   This geometry is VERY
> common and yes there are names for it but most people call them palletizing
> robots.THese robots need to lift heavy loads, like bags of dog food off
> belts and place them on wood pallets so the motors are plased in the base
> and force transmitted to push rods.   Most are only 4-DOF   A Google search
> for "palletizing robot kinematics" will ,give tons of information.But
> "cheating" works.  Remove the pushlinks and move the motor and make DH
> parms for that.  The later "fix" the elbow motor shaft angle. .
>
> The arm in the above link is like mine in that it uses model airplane
> servos.   These are very inaccurate and are open loop.   So the plan is to
> close the control loop with a video cameras.  This is not something MK was
> designed for hence using Moveit. moveit.ros.orgThen I find I need to
> sychronize the video shutters so that is on hold for now.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 6:45 AM yomin estiven jaramillo munera <
> yejm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  Hi guys is me again, our kinematics problem have progressed, this is
> > because we are sure that our D-H  parameters were correctly extracted,
> but
> > seems that our robot couldn't be defined with this parameters.
> > I'm saying this 'cause our robot is a miller MR 2000  and is very old, it
> > is moving how you can see in the follow link
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp0gVXj5u-I&feature=youtu.be
> >
> > the D-H parameters could define the kinematics but when a joint depend of
> > the before one, but in this case our joint 2 is not changing the
> > orientation of our joint 3. The joint 2 is able to change the position on
> > the space of the final tool, but is unable to change its orientation on
> the
> > space. this kinematics is obviously very different to PUMA kinematics and
> > we are doubting about DH parameters can solve this.
> > is there any name for this kind of kinematics?
> > could i solve this using D-H parameters?
> > could i solve this using genserkins?
> > All my axes are set like angular joint, could that involved in a possible
> > solution?
> >
> > 
> >
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>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Lester Caine]

On 22/03/2019 23:28, Bruce Layne wrote:

I'm still running FreeCAD 0.16, which is over a year old


0.18 is available but not released formally and has some VERY useful 
additions, but 0.17 has been about for nearly a year and it's Path 
workbench has everything I had on Cut2D plus some ... It's just a pity 
that workbenches are not updated as more functions are added rather than 
waiting for the release of the whole suite. Third party plug-ins are now 
developing faster than the core elements :(


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - https://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk


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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 14:15:55 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 17:46, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > Try this: https://a360.co/2JwQgNR
> >
> > crashed FF, https library too old and disabled I think.
>
> Works fine on a Stretch LiveCD install running on a VM on my Mac. (and
> if anything should crash)

We have a LiveCD for linuxcnc, based on stretch?  Where are you hiding 
it?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 14:04:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 20:02, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Friday 22 March 2019 13:47:01 Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > > On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 19:31, Gene Heskett 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > On Friday 22 March 2019 12:24:55 andy pugh wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:15, Gene Heskett
> > > > > 
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below
> > > > > > nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve
> > > > > > design
> > >
> > > Why not just mist using an atomising nozzle, much like they do
> > > outside restaurants on muggy days;
> > > https://www.aqualitywater.com/about-us
> > > (see the first drop-down, 'mist cooling' to see nozzles and price
> > > of.)
> > >
> > > While these use high pressure pumps, I'm sure you could just
> > > pressurise your system by using the water mains pressure.
> > > Sometimes there's a hole in the hosepipe and you get a beautiful
> > > fine mist coming off, so 4bar is plenty pressure to get a mist.
> > >
> > > Using air simply adds a bulk volume that has to go somewhere, and
> > > compressed air is expensive.
> >
> > I think the evaporative cooling of carrying a cold liquid in a lot
> > of air to help it evaporate is part of the theory.  So the air is a
> > requirement of sorts.  I think thats the reasoning at least.
>
> Here's the 'hose-pipe' version.
> http://www.bigfogg.com/product411.html
>
> I really don't think you need compressed air..
>
For that, no.
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Bruce Layne]

On 3/22/19 6:52 PM, Lester Caine wrote:
> On 22/03/2019 22:46, Bruce Layne wrote:
>> I use FreeCAD, mostly for 3D printing.  It's still not ready for prime
>> time and doesn't have a usable CAM system so it's not a possible
>> replacement for Fusion 360, but it's a viable CAD option for me when
>> Fusion 360 isn't.
>
> Sorry I have to disagree with that ... I'm running perfectly good
> gcode for the Taig mill from FreeCAD. Yes for 3D printing one of the
> other slicer options is required, but for 2.5D machining it works well
> enough and is improving all the time.
>

I happily stand corrected!   :-)

I hadn't checked FreeCAM in several months.  I shouldn't have spoken
without checking the current status.  I knew there was some active
development but I didn't know it was maturing at this rate.  At the risk
of being redundant, open source software for the win!

I'm still running FreeCAD 0.16, which is over a year old, probably the
easy-install binary.  I guess I need to get the latest FreeCAD and
FreeCAM and give it a whirl.  It sounds like it's already good enough
for most of my needs.

Thanks for the updated info.






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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Lester Caine]

On 22/03/2019 22:46, Bruce Layne wrote:

I use FreeCAD, mostly for 3D printing.  It's still not ready for prime
time and doesn't have a usable CAM system so it's not a possible
replacement for Fusion 360, but it's a viable CAD option for me when
Fusion 360 isn't.


Sorry I have to disagree with that ... I'm running perfectly good gcode 
for the Taig mill from FreeCAD. Yes for 3D printing one of the other 
slicer options is required, but for 2.5D machining it works well enough 
and is improving all the time.


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - https://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk


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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Bruce Layne]

Being an unrepentant capitalist, I must admit that commercial software
has much to recommend it.  There is money to pay programmers to develop
stable and feature rich software, and market forces keep the product
customer focused so the market gets the features that customers want. 
When Fusion 360 launched, I signed up on the AutoDesk forum to ask for a
native Linux version.  The AutoDesk administrator told me that despite
not being too much effort given the cross platform development tools
they use to make the Windows and Mac version, there would never be a
Linux version because Linux users won't pay for software.  That was an
odd thing to tell me, given that I had long ago paid $1250 for Eagle
electronic CAD software, specifically because they offered a very good
native Linux version, and I paid annual maintenance fees for years after
the initial "purchase."  Do we ever really own software?

I wasn't impressed with the AutoDesk attitude, which was slightly less
offensive than Microsoft's "Linux is cancer" public statement on open
source software.

Part of me was relieved.  Even though I wouldn't have the advantage of
the rich features and rising industry standard that Fusion 360
represented, I wouldn't be setting myself up for another proprietary
software ambush.  AutoDesk had done that to me before.  They sold me on
AutoSketch which, as an electrical engineer was all of the mechanical
CAD software I'd need.  Then they discontinued AutoSketch at the moment
that I learned enough to be productive and unilaterally converted my
license to an AutoCAD Lite license.  AutoCAD Lite required a completely
new learning curve, so I was forced to start over.  They charged me the
higher AutoCAD Lite maintenance fees while constantly nagging me to
upgrade to the complicated and expensive full blown AutoCAD that I
didn't want or need.  None of the drawings that I created in AutoSketch
could be used.  There was no import or conversion to AutoCAD Lite.  The
hundreds of hours I spent in AutoSketch was a completely wasted effort. 
I got the impression that AutoDesk viewed their entry level products as
marketing tools to hook new users so they could be up sold on their more
expensive CAD software.  It was a marketing approach that was not
customer oriented.

At the time, AutoCAD was still a 2D CAD package, but they had tacked on
some kludge 3D features.  Meanwhile, smaller and leaner software
companies had introduced true 3D CAD.  Many still exist but SolidWorks
emerged as the big winner.  AutoDesk was suddenly at the back of the
pack and disappeared in the rear view mirror for a few years.  Fusion
360 is their attempt to recapture the market they lost through
complacency.  I can't help but feel that once AutoDesk has herded the
majority of the CAD market back into a near AutoDesk monopoly, they'll
start putting the screws to the users again.

I have no interest in AutoDesk's proprietary Fusion 360 file format that
uses the files that I create to hold me hostage.  I have even less
interest in sharing my data on their cloud.

I use FreeCAD, mostly for 3D printing.  It's still not ready for prime
time and doesn't have a usable CAM system so it's not a possible
replacement for Fusion 360, but it's a viable CAD option for me when
Fusion 360 isn't.

If there was no FreeCAD, I'd use OpenSCAD long before I'd use Fusion
360.  Free Open Source Software for the win.  I wish there was some
effective method to leverage the advantages of commercial software and
FOSS.  I'd like to be able to pool my financial donations with those of
other users to encourage open source software developers to implement
new features.





On 3/22/2019 5:14 PM, Jeff Johnson wrote:
> Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?
>
> Using  ShopCam for simple 2.5D work, VisualCam for 3 or more axis work,
> using Alibre Cad for 3D Drwaing and creation as well as ProgeCad for 2D
> Drawings.
>
> With this combo there is not much we can't handle but maintenance
> agreements
> and updates do get cumbersome.
>
>  
> I am worried about moving to the cloud based system but I guess it's the
> future.
>
>  
> What are this groups thoughts if any?
>
>  
> Jeff Johnson
>
> john...@superiorroll.com
>
> Superior Roll & Turning
>
> 734-279-1831
>  




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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Greg Bernard]

I've been using Fusion for almost a year, choosing it over others primarily
because it's free to hobbyists and small commercial users. It is easier to
learn than other packages I've tried and has given me good results for 3d
modeling. As of yet I've not used the CAM portion of the software,
preferring V-carve Pro for the 2-1/2 D work I've been doing thus far. I was
skeptical of the cloud based aspect, but it has not presented any problems.
The software actually does run locally and can be used without an internet
connection for up to 30 days, I believe. Your files are stored in the
"cloud" but can be backed up locally. The advantage of being cloud based is
updates are done continuously and transparently.
If you want to learn more about the product, I would recommend NYC-CNC's
videos. John Saunders runs a small job shop and documents his use of Fusion
36O in well done videos.
https://www.nyccnc.com/

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:35 PM Jeff Johnson 
wrote:

> Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?
>
> Using  ShopCam for simple 2.5D work, VisualCam for 3 or more axis work,
> using Alibre Cad for 3D Drwaing and creation as well as ProgeCad for 2D
> Drawings.
>
> With this combo there is not much we can't handle but maintenance
> agreements
> and updates do get cumbersome.
>
>
>
> I am worried about moving to the cloud based system but I guess it's the
> future.
>
>
>
> What are this groups thoughts if any?
>
>
>
> Jeff Johnson
>
> john...@superiorroll.com
>
> Superior Roll & Turning
>
> 734-279-1831
>
>
>
>
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>


-- 
"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world
is either a madman or an economist."
-Kenneth Boulding, economist
Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech!

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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 21:35, Jeff Johnson  wrote:

> Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?

I use it a fair bit. I actually have an Inventor license, but find
myself using Fusion for a lot of stuff to save booting the Mac into
the Windows VM.
(Also the native Fusion is a lot more snappy than the VM Inventor)

The CAM is very good.

You don't have to keep your models entirely in the cloud, you can save
local backups.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Dave Cole]

I work with a shop that does a lot of waterjet, laser, 4 axis mill, and 
some lathe work and they are using

Fusion 360 for their 4 axis mill and lathe they are very happy with it.
I've used Fusion 360 to drive a LinuxCNC lathe and it worked fine.
It seems like things are moving to the cloud, but I'm not all that happy 
with that.

At some point it seems like that is going to bite a lot of users.
However, I'm not sure the cloud thing is any worse than licenses that 
are handed out by a server.

Still, Fusion 360 seems like a pretty solid package.

Dave


On 3/22/2019 5:14 PM, Jeff Johnson wrote:

Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?

Using  ShopCam for simple 2.5D work, VisualCam for 3 or more axis work,
using Alibre Cad for 3D Drwaing and creation as well as ProgeCad for 2D
Drawings.

With this combo there is not much we can't handle but maintenance agreements
and updates do get cumbersome.

  


I am worried about moving to the cloud based system but I guess it's the
future.

  


What are this groups thoughts if any?

  


Jeff Johnson

john...@superiorroll.com

Superior Roll & Turning

734-279-1831

  



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Re: [Emc-users] Fusion 360

[John Dammeyer]

I've stayed with AlibreCAD and AlibreCAM through thick and thin.  For a while 
it was MecSoft's CAM but now that Alibre has re-integrated I like that the two 
applications are linked.  I can tweak a drawing.  Adjust the CAM.  There are 
probably down sides but I don't know them.

During the Geomagic period I had a USB dongle for each.  Now we're back onto 
call home internet licensing.  I prefer the dongles.

No experience with Fusion360.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Johnson [mailto:john...@superiorroll.com]
> Sent: March-22-19 2:15 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Fusion 360
> 
> Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?
> 
> Using  ShopCam for simple 2.5D work, VisualCam for 3 or more axis work,
> using Alibre Cad for 3D Drwaing and creation as well as ProgeCad for 2D
> Drawings.
> 
> With this combo there is not much we can't handle but maintenance
> agreements
> and updates do get cumbersome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am worried about moving to the cloud based system but I guess it's the
> future.
> 
> 
> 
> What are this groups thoughts if any?
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff Johnson
> 
> john...@superiorroll.com
> 
> Superior Roll & Turning
> 
> 734-279-1831
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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[Emc-users] Fusion 360

[Jeff Johnson]

Anyone on here have opinions on Fusion 360 Cad/Cam by Autodesk?

Using  ShopCam for simple 2.5D work, VisualCam for 3 or more axis work,
using Alibre Cad for 3D Drwaing and creation as well as ProgeCad for 2D
Drawings. 

With this combo there is not much we can't handle but maintenance agreements
and updates do get cumbersome.

 

I am worried about moving to the cloud based system but I guess it's the
future. 

 

What are this groups thoughts if any?

 

Jeff Johnson

john...@superiorroll.com

Superior Roll & Turning

734-279-1831

 


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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:52 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:
>
> > Hi Gene,
> >
> > > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > > haven't made any chips yet.
> >
> > Considering the price of these coolant units
> >  >CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835>
>
> neither ships to the states.

Or
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/10PCS-304-Stainless-Steel-Capillary-Silver-Tube-Bar-
OD-2mm-x-1-6mm-Length-250mm/182683602266





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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:52 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:
>
> > Hi Gene,
> >
> > > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > > haven't made any chips yet.
> >
> > Considering the price of these coolant units
> >  >CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835>
>
> neither ships to the states.
>

Try
https://www.banggood.com/OD-2mm-x-1_6mm-ID-304-Stainless-Steel-Capillary-Tub
e-Length-500mm-Stainless-Pipe-p-1035176.html





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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Les Newell]

neither ships to the states.
Sure they do 




Les


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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 17:46, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> > Try this: https://a360.co/2JwQgNR
>
> crashed FF, https library too old and disabled I think.

Works fine on a Stretch LiveCD install running on a VM on my Mac. (and
if anything should crash)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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[Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Roland Jollivet]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 20:02, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 22 March 2019 13:47:01 Roland Jollivet wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 19:31, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > On Friday 22 March 2019 12:24:55 andy pugh wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:15, Gene Heskett 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below
> > > > > nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve
> > > > > design
> >
> > Why not just mist using an atomising nozzle, much like they do outside
> > restaurants on muggy days;
> > https://www.aqualitywater.com/about-us
> > (see the first drop-down, 'mist cooling' to see nozzles and price of.)
> >
> > While these use high pressure pumps, I'm sure you could just
> > pressurise your system by using the water mains pressure.
> > Sometimes there's a hole in the hosepipe and you get a beautiful fine
> > mist coming off, so 4bar is plenty pressure to get a mist.
> >
> > Using air simply adds a bulk volume that has to go somewhere, and
> > compressed air is expensive.
> >
> I think the evaporative cooling of carrying a cold liquid in a lot of air
> to help it evaporate is part of the theory.  So the air is a requirement
> of sorts.  I think thats the reasoning at least.
>
>
Here's the 'hose-pipe' version.
http://www.bigfogg.com/product411.html

I really don't think you need compressed air..

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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 13:47:01 Roland Jollivet wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 19:31, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Friday 22 March 2019 12:24:55 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:15, Gene Heskett 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below
> > > > nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve
> > > > design
>
> Why not just mist using an atomising nozzle, much like they do outside
> restaurants on muggy days;
> https://www.aqualitywater.com/about-us
> (see the first drop-down, 'mist cooling' to see nozzles and price of.)
>
> While these use high pressure pumps, I'm sure you could just
> pressurise your system by using the water mains pressure.
> Sometimes there's a hole in the hosepipe and you get a beautiful fine
> mist coming off, so 4bar is plenty pressure to get a mist.
>
> Using air simply adds a bulk volume that has to go somewhere, and
> compressed air is expensive.
>
I think the evaporative cooling of carrying a cold liquid in a lot of air 
to help it evaporate is part of the theory.  So the air is a requirement 
of sorts.  I think thats the reasoning at least.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:

> Hi Gene,
>
> > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > haven't made any chips yet.
>
> Considering the price of these coolant units
> CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835> is it worth messing
> around with what you have? They have the coaxial pipe design so the
> joints aren't under pressure. The needle valves are a bit coarse but
> they do work. They are also pretty easy to convert to my long nozzle
> design with some 2mm stainless tube
> e-Bar-OD-2mm-x-1-6mm-ID-Length-500mm/264241354587>.
>
> I have some misters that are very similar to yours. They are sitting
> on a shelf waiting to be used for spare parts.
>
> > That way any particulates that get thru the sintered bronze filter
> > on the end of the feed line in the coke bottle will hopefully not be
> > so coarse as to block off the pinched area, AND theres nothing to
> > corrode over time.
>
> I haven't had a lot of luck with pinching pipe to regulate low flow
> rates. Your mileage may very.
>
> The outer air pipe in the misters I linked above is pretty simple. It
> is just a piece of nylon pipe that is a close fit in the flex joints
> and swaged out at each end to form a seal. If you can find some pipe
> that fits inside your mister flex joints you could probably do
> something similar.
>s
>
These are already coaxial.  Its the air that leaks like a spaghetti 
strainer. Not a bad design, but bblb manufacture for sure.
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:

> Hi Gene,
>
> > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > haven't made any chips yet.
>
> Considering the price of these coolant units
> CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835> 

neither ships to the states.

>is it worth messing 
> around with what you have? They have the coaxial pipe design so the
> joints aren't under pressure. The needle valves are a bit coarse but
> they do work. They are also pretty easy to convert to my long nozzle
> design with some 2mm stainless tube
> e-Bar-OD-2mm-x-1-6mm-ID-Length-500mm/264241354587>.
>
> I have some misters that are very similar to yours. They are sitting
> on a shelf waiting to be used for spare parts.
>
> > That way any particulates that get thru the sintered bronze filter
> > on the end of the feed line in the coke bottle will hopefully not be
> > so coarse as to block off the pinched area, AND theres nothing to
> > corrode over time.
>
> I haven't had a lot of luck with pinching pipe to regulate low flow
> rates. Your mileage may very.
>
> The outer air pipe in the misters I linked above is pretty simple. It
> is just a piece of nylon pipe that is a close fit in the flex joints
> and swaged out at each end to form a seal. If you can find some pipe
> that fits inside your mister flex joints you could probably do
> something similar.
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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[Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Roland Jollivet]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 19:31, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 22 March 2019 12:24:55 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:15, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below
> > > nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve design
>

Why not just mist using an atomising nozzle, much like they do outside
restaurants on muggy days;
https://www.aqualitywater.com/about-us
(see the first drop-down, 'mist cooling' to see nozzles and price of.)

While these use high pressure pumps, I'm sure you could just pressurise
your system by using the water mains pressure.
Sometimes there's a hole in the hosepipe and you get a beautiful fine mist
coming off, so 4bar is plenty pressure to get a mist.

Using air simply adds a bulk volume that has to go somewhere, and
compressed air is expensive.

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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 12:47:45 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:43, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Do we have anything that can "view" this .step file? pycam struck
> > out.
>
> Try this: https://a360.co/2JwQgNR

crashed FF, https library too old and disabled I think.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 12:28:46 Ken Strauss wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:14 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
> >
> > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > haven't made any chips yet.  Lack of the ability to bore very fine
> > threads below nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle
> > valve design in some 1/2" thick brass bar I have is driving me
> > toward a pinch the hose idea since the hose is so small anyway, I'm
> > thinking of drilling and tapping into the motor mount, a couple
> > 3mm.7 tapped holes 8mm or so apart, and making a flat piece with
> > matching clearance holes, clamping that teeny hose between them and
> > drawing it down with hex head cap screws to pinch it down to a red
> > hair. Pressurizing the coke bottle takes care of priming the system
> > and I can drill into the mount body to get that air easily enough.
> > It will bleed back out of the bottle, and I can extend the inner
> > nozzle to deliver what liquid does get thru the pinched section to
> > roughly the middle of the annular air running at maybe 10 psi.
> >
> > That way any particulates that get thru the sintered bronze filter
> > on the end of the feed line in the coke bottle will hopefully not be
> > so coarse as to block off the pinched area, AND theres nothing to
> > corrode over time. Might have a cold flow problem with the hose,
> > requiring a pinch adjustment occasionally, but thats to be fiddled
> > with when its encountered.
> >
> > Anybody see any showstoppers??
>
> Is there some reason not to use a commercial pneumatic needle valve?
> Perhaps not the best price nor quality but something like:
> https://www.amazon.com/Clippard-PQ-FV04-Plastic-Control-Tubing/dp/B01A
>63TGA0/ or
> https://www.amazon.com/Pneumatic-Connect-Fitting-Control-Degree/dp/B07
>L9ZGRTS/ They are available for various tubing sizes and NPT sizes.

Either one would do the job at $16 copy. In looking for brass versions, I 
found quite a few, nearly all at $70 and up to nearly $300 for higher 
pressure stuffs.  And if I had some brass stock for the screw I could 
make it, but steel screws would just rust and clog.

So I changed to a pinch the hose idea, which I'll do this afternoon. I 
can do that with a 1/2x3/4 piece of 1/8 alu panel scrap and a pair of 
3mm.7 cap screws I already have a box of. Probably cold flow problems 
with the plastic hose, but no long term corrosion to deal with.
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 12:24:55 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:15, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below
> > nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve design
>
> Why do you need to bore? Just drill and tap.

I could but I'd like finer threads than 12-32. But my boreing bar for 
tapping needs a minimum sized hole, at least 10mm. And no brass screws 
of that size on hand in Lewis County anyway. Steel would rust and plug 
things up.

So I've changed my mind, I think I'll make a hose crusher, nothing to 
corrode that way. and I can do that in an hour or less with 2 3mm.7 
screws and a piece of 1/8" alu panel.

I've rx'd some din rails, so I can fasten down some of the relays I've 
used so far yet this afternoon as soon as I find a round tuit. Got the 
missus fed and coffee'd so I can dissappear for 2-3 hours.

The guy in hongkong is going to ship the switches again so maybe I'll 
eventutally have some home switches. He's starving though, 100 
miniature, 4mm sq, 2.5 mm thick waterproof pushbuttons for 2.42 USD with 
free ship, couldn't pass it up. I used a similar switch for X home on 
TLM, only knocked it loose once in about 5 years when chips got piled up 
in front of it.  Should work ok on this thing.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 12:23:01 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 15:27, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Translating that site into our native tongue might be a good
> > starting point.
>
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Ffor
>um.strojirenstvi.cz%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D21057

15+ minutes later its still translating. I don't think google-translate 
likes my ancient version of FF any more when it sys https at the head of 
the cli. Sigh, we really really need a new LiveCD. I've had a new drive 
waiting, spinning for a year now.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Les Newell]

Hi Gene,


And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints, probably
5x what comes out the nozzle.
And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so haven't
made any chips yet.


Considering the price of these coolant units 
 
is it worth messing around with what you have? They have the coaxial 
pipe design so the joints aren't under pressure. The needle valves are a 
bit coarse but they do work. They are also pretty easy to convert to my 
long nozzle design with some 2mm stainless tube 
.


I have some misters that are very similar to yours. They are sitting on 
a shelf waiting to be used for spare parts.



That way any particulates that get thru the sintered bronze filter on the
end of the feed line in the coke bottle will hopefully not be so coarse
as to block off the pinched area, AND theres nothing to corrode over
time.
I haven't had a lot of luck with pinching pipe to regulate low flow 
rates. Your mileage may very.


The outer air pipe in the misters I linked above is pretty simple. It is 
just a piece of nylon pipe that is a close fit in the flex joints and 
swaged out at each end to form a seal. If you can find some pipe that 
fits inside your mister flex joints you could probably do something similar.


Les




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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:43, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Do we have anything that can "view" this .step file? pycam struck out.

Try this: https://a360.co/2JwQgNR

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 10:06:24 Les Newell wrote:

> That's basically the Fogbuster design. It is a design that works well
> but uses quite a bit of air.  You lose most of the energy in the air
> by regulating it down to a fairly low pressure before you feed it into
> the tube.
> That's why I went for my extended nozzle design that runs on ~100psi
> at the nozzle, with a very small annular jet. A small amount of air
> leaves the jet at high velocity and mixes with the surrounding air to
> produce a lower velocity column of air at a high flow rate. The
> extended nozzle injects coolant into the column at a point where it's
> velocity has fallen low enough that it can't atomize the coolant.
>
> By the way Gene, the Chinese misters I linked to previously to have
> two tubes to the nozzle, one for air and one for coolant, so you don't
> get any leakage at the lock line joints. That's how I manage to run
> mine at high pressure.
>
> Les
>
> On 21/03/2019 19:43, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
> > FWIW, here are models of the No Mister Misty:
> >
> > https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.f3d. (Fusion 360
> > Assembly) https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.zip (Solid
> > Works Assembly) https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.step
> > (.stp or step file)
> >
Do we have anything that can "view" this .step file? pycam struck out.

Thanks.
> > -Tom
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:14 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so haven't
> made any chips yet.  Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below
> nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve design in
> some 1/2" thick brass bar I have is driving me toward a pinch the hose
> idea since the hose is so small anyway, I'm thinking of drilling and
> tapping into the motor mount, a couple 3mm.7 tapped holes 8mm or so
> apart, and making a flat piece with matching clearance holes, clamping
> that teeny hose between them and drawing it down with hex head cap
> screws to pinch it down to a red hair. Pressurizing the coke bottle
> takes care of priming the system and I can drill into the mount body to
> get that air easily enough. It will bleed back out of the bottle, and I
> can extend the inner nozzle to deliver what liquid does get thru the
> pinched section to roughly the middle of the annular air running at
> maybe 10 psi.
>
> That way any particulates that get thru the sintered bronze filter on the
> end of the feed line in the coke bottle will hopefully not be so coarse
> as to block off the pinched area, AND theres nothing to corrode over
> time. Might have a cold flow problem with the hose, requiring a pinch
> adjustment occasionally, but thats to be fiddled with when its
> encountered.
>
> Anybody see any showstoppers??
>

Is there some reason not to use a commercial pneumatic needle valve? Perhaps 
not the best price nor quality but something like:
https://www.amazon.com/Clippard-PQ-FV04-Plastic-Control-Tubing/dp/B01A63TGA0/
or
https://www.amazon.com/Pneumatic-Connect-Fitting-Control-Degree/dp/B07L9ZGRTS/
They are available for various tubing sizes and NPT sizes.




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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:15, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below
> nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve design

Why do you need to bore? Just drill and tap.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 15:27, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Translating that site into our native tongue might be a good starting
> point.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.strojirenstvi.cz%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D21057



-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:04, Jon Elson  wrote:

> .01 degrees is 36,000 counts/rev.  Large diameter encoders
> (maybe with interpolation) can do more, but maybe that is
> the raw resolution of the encoder without the interpolation.

The encoder is described as a "Resolver" in the drive manual, but is
an odd one with 4 wires, ABC and common.
The manual gives the resolution as 614,400 cpr, but as the sensor is
very multi-pole and analogue I think that is a drive limitation.
Repeatability is given as +/-2 seconds, which matches the CPR quoted.

> I do see that there are 18 wound poles on rotor, and same on
> stator.  So, that could possibly suggest a 3-phase arrangement.

The input is certainly three phase.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 10:06:24 Les Newell wrote:

> That's basically the Fogbuster design. It is a design that works well
> but uses quite a bit of air.  You lose most of the energy in the air
> by regulating it down to a fairly low pressure before you feed it into
> the tube.
And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints, probably 
5x what comes out the nozzle.

> That's why I went for my extended nozzle design that runs on ~100psi
> at the nozzle, with a very small annular jet. A small amount of air
> leaves the jet at high velocity and mixes with the surrounding air to
> produce a lower velocity column of air at a high flow rate. The
> extended nozzle injects coolant into the column at a point where it's
> velocity has fallen low enough that it can't atomize the coolant.

And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so haven't 
made any chips yet.  Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below 
nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve design in 
some 1/2" thick brass bar I have is driving me toward a pinch the hose 
idea since the hose is so small anyway, I'm thinking of drilling and 
tapping into the motor mount, a couple 3mm.7 tapped holes 8mm or so 
apart, and making a flat piece with matching clearance holes, clamping 
that teeny hose between them and drawing it down with hex head cap 
screws to pinch it down to a red hair. Pressurizing the coke bottle 
takes care of priming the system and I can drill into the mount body to 
get that air easily enough. It will bleed back out of the bottle, and I 
can extend the inner nozzle to deliver what liquid does get thru the 
pinched section to roughly the middle of the annular air running at 
maybe 10 psi.

That way any particulates that get thru the sintered bronze filter on the 
end of the feed line in the coke bottle will hopefully not be so coarse 
as to block off the pinched area, AND theres nothing to corrode over 
time. Might have a cold flow problem with the hose, requiring a pinch 
adjustment occasionally, but thats to be fiddled with when its 
encountered.

Anybody see any showstoppers??

> By the way Gene, the Chinese misters I linked to previously to have
> two tubes to the nozzle, one for air and one for coolant, so you don't
> get any leakage at the lock line joints. That's how I manage to run
> mine at high pressure.

Same here Les, now if we could just get the segmented outer line to hold 
air. I'm losing 90% of my input air blowing out the sides of the segment 
joints. Very poorly molded stuff. With a 2hp direct drive AC, its 
running 75% of the time at 15 psig. I'll burn it up sure as God made 
little green apples. A 10% duty would be my personal target. Giving it 
time to cool the cylinder head. Or perhaps put that 6" rotron I bought 
to put on the vfd, on the compressor instead? Its quiet enough to leave 
it run full time, and the compressor would last a LOT longer with active 
cooling full time.

The vfd doesn't seem to heat enough to need a fan other than the 3.5" in 
the box. I left it running at the 7i76D min, set at about 2400 rpm, all 
night, nothing warm enough to worry about, not even the water the next 
day. I can set that slower and might but theres only a small torque at 
that speed anyway.

Thanks Les, I appreciate the experience shared.
>
> Les
>
> On 21/03/2019 19:43, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
> > FWIW, here are models of the No Mister Misty:
> >
> > https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.f3d. (Fusion 360
> > Assembly) https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.zip (Solid
> > Works Assembly) https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.step
> > (.stp or step file)
> >
> > -Tom
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[Jon Elson]

On 03/22/2019 10:25 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:


I hope you got the driver for it with it. Dissecting that into a
schematic might reveal some secrets. Likewise, I think I'd be looking
for a way to get the encoders full resolution out of it as .01 degrees
sounds a bit coarse.
.01 degrees is 36,000 counts/rev.  Large diameter encoders 
(maybe with interpolation) can do more, but maybe that is 
the raw resolution of the encoder without the interpolation.


I do see that there are 18 wound poles on rotor, and same on 
stator.  So, that could possibly suggest a 3-phase arrangement.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[Jon Elson]

On 03/22/2019 07:39 AM, andy pugh wrote:

A recent (ish) acquisition was an NSK Megatorque (RS1010, which means
10" dia and 10" long)
This is rated at 147Nm (108 lb f) torque and for an axial load of
9500N (2100lbf) so is quite a beast.
Currently I am using it as a glorified protractor to calibrate a Faro arm. :-)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3yhuhQ7e2vbjDLg8
It has a very high-count encoder, thought he serial terminal connected
to the drive only reports angle to 0.01 degrees.

The motor is an odd shape, the output flange is a ring, and there is a
static tube inside that. Looking around on the web I found:
https://forum.strojirenstvi.cz/viewtopic.php?t=21057
Which rather explains the odd shape. It seems to be a motor with two
sets of coils.

There is a toothed rotor rather like a stepper motor, with a toothed
inner stator.

Is this a variable reluctance motor? Do the outer magnets simply
magnetise the rotor, or would there be more teeth on the outside?

Does it have magnets?  Or, by "outer magnets" do you mean 
the outer coils?  Yes, it certainly is some sort of variable 
reluctance motor.  I think I can just barely make out in the


strojirenstvi

picture that there is a vernier sort of relationship between 
the inner and outer teeth.

How many phases does it have for stator and rotor?

Jon



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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 08:39:21 andy pugh wrote:

> I have a servo motor acquisition problem, I tend to buy servo motors
> from eBay just because they are cheap.
> A recent (ish) acquisition was an NSK Megatorque (RS1010, which means
> 10" dia and 10" long)
> This is rated at 147Nm (108 lb f) torque and for an axial load of
> 9500N (2100lbf) so is quite a beast.
> Currently I am using it as a glorified protractor to calibrate a Faro
> arm. :-) https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3yhuhQ7e2vbjDLg8
> It has a very high-count encoder, thought he serial terminal connected
> to the drive only reports angle to 0.01 degrees.

I hope you got the driver for it with it. Dissecting that into a 
schematic might reveal some secrets. Likewise, I think I'd be looking 
for a way to get the encoders full resolution out of it as .01 degrees 
sounds a bit coarse.

I can't say anything else as I've never seen a critter like that, so I am 
curious too, Andy. My background in broadcasting rather demonstrates 
that simple things that Just Work are the general order so we don't get 
to see the exotic stuff unless theres nothing else to do the job.

> The motor is an odd shape, the output flange is a ring, and there is a
> static tube inside that. Looking around on the web I found:
> https://forum.strojirenstvi.cz/viewtopic.php?t=21057
> Which rather explains the odd shape. It seems to be a motor with two
> sets of coils.

Translating that site into our native tongue might be a good starting 
point. I tried to learn some Chech from my fav auto scrap yard dealer 
back in the '50's, but 60+ years has erased that now and I expect Joe is 
long gone by now too. I was 22ish and he was 50ish then. I was driving a 
52 Nash Ambassador and learning from his hints where another 100+ 
virtually free horsepower was hideing. I surprised many a hot rodded 
ford in their day with it. Speedo needle well past straight down (120 
was at about 4:30pm on the dial & still getting 19 mpg), I ran off and 
hid from anything I wanted to show how it was done. The only thing it 
didn't have to match was brakes. I hopelessly warped a couple sets of 
drums all around in gotta stop situations. Teeny little 9" stuff.

> There is a toothed rotor rather like a stepper motor, with a toothed
> inner stator.
>
> Is this a variable reluctance motor? Do the outer magnets simply
> magnetise the rotor, or would there be more teeth on the outside?

Tell us what you find Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Les Newell]

That's basically the Fogbuster design. It is a design that works well 
but uses quite a bit of air.  You lose most of the energy in the air by 
regulating it down to a fairly low pressure before you feed it into the 
tube.
That's why I went for my extended nozzle design that runs on ~100psi at 
the nozzle, with a very small annular jet. A small amount of air leaves 
the jet at high velocity and mixes with the surrounding air to produce a 
lower velocity column of air at a high flow rate. The extended nozzle 
injects coolant into the column at a point where it's velocity has 
fallen low enough that it can't atomize the coolant.


By the way Gene, the Chinese misters I linked to previously to have two 
tubes to the nozzle, one for air and one for coolant, so you don't get 
any leakage at the lock line joints. That's how I manage to run mine at 
high pressure.


Les

On 21/03/2019 19:43, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:

FWIW, here are models of the No Mister Misty:

https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.f3d. (Fusion 360 Assembly)
https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.zip (Solid Works Assembly)
https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/NoMisterMisty-Assy.step (.stp or step file)

-Tom





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[Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[andy pugh]

I have a servo motor acquisition problem, I tend to buy servo motors
from eBay just because they are cheap.
A recent (ish) acquisition was an NSK Megatorque (RS1010, which means
10" dia and 10" long)
This is rated at 147Nm (108 lb f) torque and for an axial load of
9500N (2100lbf) so is quite a beast.
Currently I am using it as a glorified protractor to calibrate a Faro arm. :-)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3yhuhQ7e2vbjDLg8
It has a very high-count encoder, thought he serial terminal connected
to the drive only reports angle to 0.01 degrees.

The motor is an odd shape, the output flange is a ring, and there is a
static tube inside that. Looking around on the web I found:
https://forum.strojirenstvi.cz/viewtopic.php?t=21057
Which rather explains the odd shape. It seems to be a motor with two
sets of coils.

There is a toothed rotor rather like a stepper motor, with a toothed
inner stator.

Is this a variable reluctance motor? Do the outer magnets simply
magnetise the rotor, or would there be more teeth on the outside?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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