Re: [EVDL] OT Solar Electrical Issues (was: Adding a 14/50 EV courtesy outlet to a solar array)

[jim--- via EV]

When I put my solar in about five years ago, I took the "opportunity" to 
replace my 100A Zinsco main panel with a 200A Siemens main panel.  On the new 
panel, the main breaker is at the bottom of the panel and the panel was marked 
that it was required to hook up solar to the top of the panel (breakers 1 & 2).


Jim Walls


-Original Message-
From: "Bill Dube via EV" 

I suppose where you place the solar breaker in the panel might matter, 
somewhat. It would likely be best if you placed the solar breaker on the 
far end, away from the main breaker. Thus, no portion of the bus bar 
would be subject to more amps than the main breaker current. (Think 
about this for a moment or two.)



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Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] Chart shows energy production from 2000 to today. All time high in all sectors.

[jim--- via EV]

Just because it's clickable, does not make it reachable publicly from the 
Internet.

For example, this link is only reachable from my login on this laptop:
file:///C:/Users/jim/Downloads/Knee%20Replacement.jpg

And this one is only reachable from my local lan:
http://192.168.201.11/K6CCC.org/

And this link is reachable from the Internet, but not publicly available:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19un0XoIidMT4avmtTretOwu2TJR-A23g/view?usp=sharing

By comparison, this one like the one above is on Google Drive, but it is 
publicly viewable (it's a photo from a Trans Siberian Orchestra concert).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19xuNffvw-uCIG6tvkrayYgBdTwUaPMqP/view?usp=drive_link

Jim Walls

 
On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 1:03 PM Lawrence Rhodes 
wrote:

> Anyone can cut and paste or copy the url to view the chart which was
> surprising. If it's blue it is clickable. Lawrence Rhodes


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No Apple EV

[jim--- via EV]

One of my standard statements:  You throw money at R and stuff falls out.  
May not even be what you were aiming for, but stuff will fall out.

Jim



-Original Message-
From: "Lee Hart via EV" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2024 11:45
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Lee Hart" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No Apple EV

> The Briefing
> By Martin Peers
> 
> Maybe Apple should cancel multibillion-dollar projects more often! Shares of 
> the iPhone maker, which have fallen since the start of the year, rose nearly 
> 1% Tuesday after Bloomberg scooped the news that Apple had canned Project 
> Titan, its decade-old autonomous car project...

This is a typical Wall Street "money is all that matters" type of response.

Titan was an R project. You do R to learn, not to make money. It *may* lead 
to something in the future; but most R projects don't.

R money isn't somehow lost or burned. It keeps your best and brightest people 
active, thinking, and creating. It supports your suppliers, and encourages them 
to innovate as well. And, all this "lost money" may well come up with something 
that *is* practical and makes money!

We only have EVs today as a direct result of R People were willing to 
"waste" time and money developing them anyway, just to learn and develop the 
technology.

Lee

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla

[jim--- via EV]

I can tell you that around the Los Angeles area, the percentage of Tesla 
drivers that are driving like total assholes is quite high compared to most 
other brands that have large numbers of cars on the road.  Just my observation.

Jim Walls



-Original Message-
From: "EV List Lackey via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2023 12:55
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "EV List Lackey" 
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla

Tesla is getting some rough PR lately.  

Obviously, there's the "every vehicle" recall that isn't, but is really a 
remote reprogramming.  

Then this article landed yesterday:

"Tesla drivers are the most accident-prone, according to a LendingTree 
analysis of 30 car brands. It found that Tesla drivers are involved in more 
accidents than drivers of any other brand. Tesla drivers had 23.54 accidents 
per 1,000 drivers. Ram (22.76) and Subaru (20.90) were the only other brands 
with more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers for every brand."

Full article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2023/12/18/tesla-has-the-highest-
accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/

or https://v.gd/y2FFnb

Forbes is pretty careful to not speculate on why.  But you can bet that many 
people outside the Musk-o-verse will say "it's because of Autopilot," while 
Musket-heads will be more apt to say "not enough owners using Autopilot."

Eh, I'm staying out of it.

What I wonder about, and WILL mention, is something that the original source 
sort of takes a whack at and glances off of.

Teslas tend to be powerful vehicles.  I don't know whether I can say too 
much about this since I don't own one and have never driven one, but I do 
know that while ludicrous (Tesla's own word) acceleration can sometimes get 
you out of trouble fast, it can also get you INTO trouble really fast.  
Especially if you're young and hormone-addled, and/or drunk or high, and/or 
just not that skilled a driver.  

Somehow I strongly doubt that any Tesla software update is going to change 
that part of the vehicles' behavior.

Also, off topic - Ram, yeah, I can see that - but Subaru???  Really?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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 you take.
 
-- Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965)
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Re: [EVDL] FLA bad cell question

[jim--- via EV]

Not just No, but HELL NO!

Really bad idea with lots of potential complications - some of which already 
mentioned.

Jim Walls




-Original Message-
From: "Barry Oppenheim via EV" 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 09:02
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Barry Oppenheim" 
Subject: [EVDL] FLA bad cell question

I have three 6V deep cycle batteries, each with a presumed bad cell
(voltage ~4.4V charged).  Can I combine them into one 12V battery and
charge with a 12V charger?

Thanks in advance,
Barry
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Re: [EVDL] the grid needs upgrading - fast

[jim--- via EV]

David said:
> Good luck with that.  Most of our "investor owned" utilities don't have a 
> good track record of even keeping up with current maintenance, much less 
> actually planning for the future.

For the most part, at least here in California, the investor owned utilities 
largely are not allowed to plan (or more accurately to spend) for the future.  
In really short summary, the concept is that rate payers today should not have 
to pay for future projects.  That is an insanely simple explanation of a very 
complex process, but it's a fairly accurate summary.

As I understand it, most other states are at least similar.


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] new battery technology moving past the labs

[jim--- via EV]

EV List Lackey via EV said (in small part):

> If you can get it!  As I see it, the infrastructure required to blast that
> much power into multiple vehicles at a motorway charging stop is the big
> challenge.  It's not the battery's ability to accept a charge.  

Not hardly.  Supplying a couple megawatts to a charging stop is just not that 
big of a deal.  Your average shopping mall takes more than that, and even most 
residential distribution circuits carry more than that.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] Gmail warning (list business)

[jim--- via EV]

Similar here.  I use Rackspace.com for my E-Mail hosting.  Very happy with them.

Jim Walls
j...@k6ccc.org




-Original Message-
From: "Peri Hartman via EV" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2022 07:37
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gmail warning (list business)

For what it's worth, I pay for my own hosting, which costs a modest 
annual fee. No notable missed email and I have access to stuff 
quarantined by the spam filter. The company I use is MDD Hosting. Very 
good prices and the best tech support I've experienced.



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Re: [EVDL] Test . am I still subscribed

[jim--- via EV]

Appears that at least you can post.


Jim


-Original Message-
From: "Steve Clunn via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2022 15:00
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Steve Clunn" 
Subject: [EVDL] Test . am I still subscribed


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Re: [EVDL] The electric future of snowmobiling

[jim--- via EV]

David Roden said (in small part):
> Sometimes I think that for them, the noise and stink are features, not bugs.

They are out there..  I have a 30 year old son who is a "car guy" that firmly 
believes that real cars are LOUD!  The louder the better - both engine noise 
and stereo.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] Car carrier on fire abandoned in Atlantic

[jim--- via EV]

Unfortunately, that link requires an account to read.

Jim



-Original Message-
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2022 08:22
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] Car carrier on fire abandoned in Atlantic

 
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/17/world/europe/felicity-ace-vessel-fire.html?auth=login-google_id=9=edit_nn_20220218_id=53574=the-morning_id=108513477_id=83155=1_id=d43ba64a8c1a5f40ae65efe44b173266
On Friday, February 18, 2022, 08:17:04 AM PST, Randy Spencer via groups.io 
 wrote:  
 
 I missed this, do you have a link?


On Feb 18, 2022, at 8:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes  wrote:
 1,100 luxury cars. What a pity. Insurance fraud? Could be another way of 
getting rid of stranded assets.  Wonder how many electric cars were on board? 
Lawrence Rhodes  

_._,_._,_  Groups.io Links:
 You receive all messages sent to this group. 

 View/Reply Online (#958) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic 
| New Topic
 Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe 
[primobass...@sbcglobal.net]
 
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Re: [EVDL] Self Driving Mode, was Tesla's Sneaky Rolling

[jim--- via EV]

-Original Message-
From: "Bill Dennis via EV" 

> I was driving on the I-210 outside of Los Angeles this weekend, which is 
> under construction. 
> They've shifted the lanes, but didn't do a good job of blacking out the old 
> lane markers.  
> So even as a human driver, I found it quite difficult to figure out where the 
> lanes actually
> were.  

Let me guess, you were on I-210 in Irwindale at around Vernon Ave...

Yea, it sucks - especially under certain lighting conditions.  I drive through 
that every day driving to or home from work.


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] OT: US traffic controls (was: tesla's sneaky rolling stops)

[jim--- via EV]

My dislike is largely based on the fact that a traffic circle forces 
essentially all traffic on the left to get to the right and everyone on the 
right to get to the left in a very short space.  Like I said, when the traffic 
is very light, it works fine, but with anything but light traffic, they are a 
menace.

Jim Walls




-Original Message-
From: "Robert Johnston via EV" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 2, 2022 04:27
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Robert Johnston" , "EV List Lackey" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: US traffic controls (was: tesla's sneaky rolling stops)

Traffic Circles/Roundabouts are designed for continuous flow traffic, and
when used in a system made for continuous traffic, they work fantastically.
US roads, however, are made for "Packing", with timed traffic lights and
stop signs causing vehicles to bunch up and form clumps, that are then run
through the system together.




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Re: [EVDL] OT: US traffic controls (was: tesla's sneaky rolling stops)

[jim--- via EV]

Absolutely hate traffic circles...
They work fine if there is very low traffic, but if there is lots of traffic, 
they are horrible...


Jim Walls




-Original Message-
From: "Peri Hartman via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 16:12
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: US traffic controls (was: tesla's sneaky rolling stops)

Incidentally, in Seattle, most residential streets don't have stop 
signs.

"Crash data show there are far more accidents at intersections in 
Seattle with stop signs than without. ... Which brings us to traffic 
circles, an approach that reduces collisions by 97 percent." from
https://www.kuow.org/stories/stop-signs-arent-all-theyre-cracked-be-seattle

Peri



<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Dube via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Bill Dube" 
Sent: 01-Feb-22 15:48:05
Subject: [EVDL] OT: US traffic controls (was: tesla's sneaky rolling 
stops)

> Tesla should treat a stop sign according to the law. However, the 
> computer is acting logically according to the actual situation. I would 
> suspect that there logically should be a yield sign instead of the stop sign.
>
>In most civilized parts of the world, stop signs are _extremely_ scarce. In 
>the US, they are the default at most intersections. I can only recall seeing 
>half a dozen stop signs in all of Auckland. No doubt there are more, but they 
>are used sparely because they are needed extremely rarely.
>
>I suspect this is to  generate revenue in the form of traffic tickets in the 
>US. Only in the US do the ticket revenues go directly to the police 
>departments. In most civilized countries, they go to the national coffers, 
>which removes (most) of the obvious conflict of interest.
>
>Obviously, someone has to yield the right of way to someone else at an 
>intersection. In sensible countries, they use "yield" signs. Only in the few 
>intersections that have visibility difficulties, or some unusual hazard do 
>they place the very rare stop sign. They often don't have any signs at all, 
>where you apply whoever standard yield law/procedure. It all works wonderfully 
>with few traffic accidents. Traffic flows much more smoothly and efficiently 
>with yield signs instead of stop signs.
>
> When folks in the US do a rolling stop (often called a Hollywood stop,) 
> they are doing the logical thing. They have slowed sufficiency to ensure that 
> they can proceed without violating the right-of-way.
>
>
>
>
>
>Bill D.
>
>On 2/2/2022 11:39 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>Ok, my opinion.  I think one should look at the intent of the law requiring a 
>>full stop at a stop sign. From what I learned, that is to allow getting a 
>>full view of the intersection before proceeding. If you don't come to a full 
>>stop, you might not notice a pedestrian starting to cross. Or, if the cross 
>>traffic doesn't stop, you might miss an oncoming vehicle.
>>
>>So, for human drivers, a full stop makes sense.
>>
>>In the future, good sensors and self-driving software should be able to 
>>determine if a full stop is necessary. The software can look in all 
>>directions at once and doesn't need nearly as much time as a human to make a 
>>decision. If the view of cross traffic is blocked, it will need to be ready 
>>to stop, but may not need to completely stop once at the intersection. I can 
>>imagine that full stops and, perhaps, even stop signs themselves will 
>>eventually become relics.
>>
>>In the mean time, I think Tesla's should obey the law. Once Musk can prove 
>>his vehicles don't have to fully stop, maybe he can lobby to get laws changed.
>>
>>Peri
>>
>>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)

[jim--- via EV]

Yep.  By a factor of around 50 or so.  Depending on which orbit, the StarLink 
launches are as high as 60 satellites per launch.  The lowest number is in the 
mid 40s.

Jim Walls




-Original Message-
From: "Cal Frye via EV" 
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 12:43
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Cal Frye" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)

Today's single Falcon 9 launch lifted 49 Starlink satellites. I think 
your estimate is a mite high?

Best regards,
-- Cal Frye,


On 1/7/22 3:19 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
> On 7 Jan 2022 at 14:24, paul dove via EV wrote:
>
>>   Be interested to see those numbers.
> Sure.
>
> Sorry that I didn't save links to my sources, but you're welcome to look
> them up for confirmation or correction  I think that most of them were US
> federal agencies - DOE, EPA, maybe NASA.
>
> Spacex plans to launch 42,000 satellites.  (I said 40,000 in a previous
> post, but I was remembering incorrectly.)  I haven't found a time frame for
> those launches, but the total number is frequently quoted in many news
> reports.  By the way, I'm not an expert, but that is a LOT of orbital
> congestion, IMO.
>
> Each satellite launch releases almost 340 metric tonnes of CO2.  That's a
> total of 14.3 million tonnes.
>
> If your number (425 tonnes per launch) is correct, it would be 17.9 million
> tonnes.
>
> To simplify the math, I made a few assumptions and omissions.
>
> - Over the period in question, US Tesla sales dominate, therefore I can use
> US average yearly driving mileage (14,300).  Many Teslas are sold in
> California and their yearly mileage is somehwat higher, but it's not enough
> to change the conclusion significantly.
>
> - The national power mix and CO2 output applies.  In reality there are more
> Teslas in the west, so differences in Western power generation CO2 emissions
> may affect the totals.  Calculating this would have required separating out
> Tesla sales and power generation by state or even more finely. I didn't have
> the patience for that, but I'd be happy to see someone else do it.
>
> - Tesla energy use will vary somewhat by model, but I used an average. I
> don't remember where I got that average or how current it is.
>
> - I considered only what the vehicles consume in driving energy, not what
> CO2 is emitted in manufacturing the cars and parts and transporting same.
>
> Average ICEV CO2 emissions are 0.404kg per mile.
>
> On average a Tesla uses 0.34 kWh per mile.  US average power generation
> produces 0.386kg per kWh, so a Tesla releases 0.131kg/mi of CO2, for a net
> reduction vs an ICEV of 0.273 kg/mi.  BTW, this once again disproves the
> "smokestack myth."
>
> I then made a simple spreadsheet with the number of cars Tesla has sold each
> year since 2012 (ignoring the negligable number of roadsters sold), the
> estimated number of miles driven by the owners of those Teslas, the
> cumulative miles driven, and the cumulative reduction in CO2 emissions vs
> those same drivers using an average ICEV.
>
> By the end of 2020, the cumulative CO2 reduction from Tesla EVs was 13.7
> million metric tonnes, which is pretty impressive.
>
> However, the launch of Spacex's 42,000 satellites will emit 14.3 million
> tonnes or 17.9 million tonnes, depending on your source, as stated above.
>
> Either way, Musk's satellites will wipe out all of the decarbonization that
> his EVs accomplished from 2012 to 2020.
>
> Some people consider Elon Musk an environmental champion.  That too is
> interesting.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here :http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>   I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
>   I said I didn't know.
>
>  -- Mark Twain
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)

[jim--- via EV]

-Original Message-
From: "paul dove via EV" 

> by my calculation a Falcon 9 launch produces 425 metric tonnes per launch. 
 
> there has been 3 heavy launches that produce 2683 metric tonnes. [per launch 
> implied from other part of message]

Fails sanity check.  A Falcon 9 has one booster and one second stage.  A Falcon 
9 Heavy has three boosters and one second stage.  Why would it produce 6.3 
times as much CO2?  Shouldn't it be a little under three times as much?

And yes, this is getting pretty off-topic...


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees to kill solar. (j...@k6ccc.org)

[jim--- via EV]

January 27th meeting - not the 13th.
That was the date I recalled from the LA Times article about a week ago.

Jim Walls




-Original Message-
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 22:00
To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" 
Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees 
to kill solar. (j...@k6ccc.org)

I think this is the missing file from my computer. Sorry for that Lawrence 
Rhodes
  https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/nemrevisit
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Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees to kill solar.

[jim--- via EV]

The file location you posted is on your hard drive.  Not available to us.

And I can't find anything on the agenda related to solar.

Jim




-Original Message-
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:44
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees 
to kill solar.

file:///C:/Users/owner/Downloads/371909265.PDF This is the .pdf of the 
tarrif(tax) on solar proposal. It is a complicated document which I have only 
started to go through. Couldn't find the fee structure. Lawrence Rhodes






On Wednesday, January 5, 2022, 12:01:07 PM PST, Lawrence Rhodes 
 wrote: 





Please do your part to complain about these proposed fees. If this goes 
through, what is the point of having solar...I will disconnect from the grid 
and get batteries. 
https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/events-and-meetings/cpuc-voting-meeting-01-13-2022 This 
is the link for a meeting of the CPUC over proposed fees for owning and 
connecting solar to the grid. A lot of buried information that must be sorted 
through.  Below links to contact board members which is not obvious. Lawrence 
Rhodes

https://apps.cpuc.ca.gov/apex/f?p=401%3A56%3A0%3A%3ANO%3ARP%2C57%2CRIR%3AP5_PROCEEDING_SELECT%3AR2008020
 comment link. Couldn't figure it out. 
Parties: https://ia.cpuc.ca.gov/servicelists/R2008020_88217.htm


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Re: [EVDL] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees to kill solar.

[jim--- via EV]

Neither could I.  I answered based on newspaper articles.

Jim




-Original Message-
From: "David Murphy via EV" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:20
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "David Murphy" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees to kill 
solar.

I don’t seem to be able to find this on the agenda…can you provide a link
to that or to the title of the agenda item?

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:10 PM jim--- via EV  wrote:

>
> The fees are not the big issue - it's the killing net metering part.
> I'm with you however, if they kill net metering, I will largely turn off
> my solar.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:00
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
> Subject: [EVDL] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees to
> kill solar.
>
> Please do your part to complain about these proposed fees. If this goes
> through, what is the point of having solar...I will disconnect from the
> grid and get batteries.
> https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/events-and-meetings/cpuc-voting-meeting-01-13-2022
> This is the link for a meeting of the CPUC over proposed fees for owning
> and connecting solar to the grid. A lot of buried information that must be
> sorted through.  Below links to contact board members which is not obvious.
> Lawrence Rhodes
>
>
> https://apps.cpuc.ca.gov/apex/f?p=401%3A56%3A0%3A%3ANO%3ARP%2C57%2CRIR%3AP5_PROCEEDING_SELECT%3AR2008020
> comment link. Couldn't figure it out.
> Parties: https://ia.cpuc.ca.gov/servicelists/R2008020_88217.htm
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Re: [EVDL] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees to kill solar.

[jim--- via EV]

The fees are not the big issue - it's the killing net metering part.
I'm with you however, if they kill net metering, I will largely turn off my 
solar.


Jim



-Original Message-
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:00
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
Subject: [EVDL] CPUC meeting via the web. Concerning expensive fees to kill 
solar.

Please do your part to complain about these proposed fees. If this goes 
through, what is the point of having solar...I will disconnect from the grid 
and get batteries. 
https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/events-and-meetings/cpuc-voting-meeting-01-13-2022 This 
is the link for a meeting of the CPUC over proposed fees for owning and 
connecting solar to the grid. A lot of buried information that must be sorted 
through.  Below links to contact board members which is not obvious. Lawrence 
Rhodes

https://apps.cpuc.ca.gov/apex/f?p=401%3A56%3A0%3A%3ANO%3ARP%2C57%2CRIR%3AP5_PROCEEDING_SELECT%3AR2008020
 comment link. Couldn't figure it out. 
Parties: https://ia.cpuc.ca.gov/servicelists/R2008020_88217.htm
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Re: [EVDL] What type of magic is this nut and where to get a tool for it?

[jim--- via EV]

> On Tue Nov 16 02:29:30 PST 2021 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >Here two pics of the battery box with the weird half-dome nuts on the
> >cell interconnects:
> >https://flic.kr/p/2mK3nUh
> >https://flic.kr/p/2mKc155

Why on earth would someone use such a high security nut on a vehicle battery?  
Maybe they are planning on that for places where car batteries are routinely 
stolen...

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] Electric Trains

[jim--- via EV]

Google is your friend...

The three-rail O gauge toy trains sold in the United States are intended to run 
on approximately 5 to 20 volts of 60-cycle alternating current (AC). 


Jim - K6CCC



-Original Message-
From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" 
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 11:54
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Robert Bruninga" 
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Trains

Its a stretch for this EVDL list... but humor me...

Will my 70 year old Lionel Train engine run on DC?
Grandaughter will be here this weekend and I assuyned
the engine would run fine (though sloly) on a 6v'
lantern battery

No joy, it deesent.  and no time to troubleshoot.
THought I'd ask here.
Bob
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Re: [EVDL] LIVE stream 8/31/21 1540 PST A physicist consultant to power utilities on how the EV mass adoption is affecting the

[jim--- via EV]

From: "Jan Steinman via EV"
> The Pacific Intertie is a 600,000 volt DC line that stretches from Washingon 
> to SoCal.
> I think it can handle enough power for a minor city.

As I said in an earlier post, the DC Pacific Intertie is actually one megavolt 
and goes from Celilo Oregon (near Bonnville Dam) to Sylmar, Calif. with a 
capacity of 3,100 MW.  Quite a lot more capacity exists in AC lines.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] LIVE stream 8/31/21 1540 PST A physicist consultant to power utilities on how the EV mass adoption is affecting the

[jim--- via EV]

From: "Peri Hartman via EV"
> Michael, I don't follow you. If, for example, southern cali has excess 
> PV generation, it will need to ship that energy somewhere pretty far 
> away, say oregon or washington. That would require a pretty substantial 
> transmission line. I don't think the existing lines are sufficient. 

There is plenty of transmission line capacity between SoCal and Oregon and 
Washington.  Thousands of MegaWatts routinely goes one way or the other between 
those locations.  There is the DC Pacific Interie (1 MV DC) between Celilo 
Oregon (near Bonneville Dam) and Sylmar, Calif (near Los Angeles) alone has a 
capacity of 3,100 MW, and the AC Pacific Intertie (multiple lines at 500 KV) 
has a capacity of 4,800 MW.  Additionally there are a bunch of other 500KV AC 
and 220 KV AC lines  that provide additional routes and capacities.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Electric Eel - partway there

[jim--- via EV]

Interesting concept.  The Cessna Skymaster - which this obviously is a 
modification of, is one of very few twin engine airplanes that has both engines 
on the centerline of the aircraft.  That makes it far easier to fly if an 
engine fails.  That makes it an ideal candidate for this type of modification.

Jim
j...@k6ccc.org



-Original Message-
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" 

"Electric EEL is an adapted six-seat Cessna. There is a conventional 
combustion engine in the back of the plane that drives the rear propeller.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/24/decarbonising-aviation-
the-electric-eel-could-be-the-future-of-flying




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Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all

[jim--- via EV]

Mark Abramowitz said in small part:

> Granted, because of the limited infrastructure currently, those consumers in 
> the US for
> whom it would work fine is very small. In California, much less so.

Guess again.  You keep talking about how much infrastructure there is in 
California - and the Los Angeles area in particular.  I live and work in the 
Los Angeles basin and there is NOT useful infrastructure for me.  The nearest 
station to my house is about 20 minutes in a direction that I almost never 
drive.  On my normal drive to work, there is not a single station that is not 
AT LEAST 15 minutes out of my way (each way).  And according to the LA Time 
article I posted last week, many of the ones that do exist, routinely are not 
operational.  Not happening for me.

By comparison, at work there are four publicly available charging spots and 
four more in the employee part of the parking structure.  Of course I could (if 
I had an EVE) charge at home, and within a mile or two of my house there are at 
least a half dozen publicly available charging stations.


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all

[jim--- via EV]

With all this discussion about hydrogen for fuel, there is a front page article 
in the 19 August Los Angeles Times about using hydrogen as vehicle fuel.  Even 
here in southern California, it paints a fairly dismal picture - mostly because 
of the almost total lack of fuel availability.

I am a print (which also gets me the online version) of the LA Times so I could 
find the article online, however it appears to be subscriber only.  Here's a 
link to the article if you can read it

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-08-10/hydrogen-highway-or-highway-to-nowhere


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: NHTSA to investigate Tesla / Emergency Vehicle Crashes

[jim--- via EV]

> The US government has opened a formal investigation into Tesla´s driver-
> assistance system known as Autopilot after a series of collisions with 
> parked emergency vehicles.

Whether there is an issue that makes it more likely for a Tesla on AutoPilot to 
drive into emergency lights, I wonder how many of those crashes would have been 
prevented if the driver was paying attention and had their hands on the wheel 
so they could override the AP?  As I recall (and I don't have a Tesla), the 
driver is required to keep his / her hands on the wheel at all times.


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] electric riding mowers? =Ryobi variable speed?

[jim via EV]

A good friend has a Ryobi electric riding mower and his wife has been using it 
for over 3 years.  Battery capacity is noticeably less than when new (but she 
mows until the machine slows down considerably).  They don't like the "cruise 
control" on their hilly yard as there is no regenerative braking so it speeds 
up going downhill.  The ride is very rough on their rough yard, too, and he 
found features like the charging for I-phone to be frivolous.  But he seems 
fairly happy with the machine otherwise, especially since his wife likes to use 
it.Personally, I like my E-15 GE tractor.  I replaced the controls with newer 
solid state parts but still spend a lot of time on maintenance and repairs, 
mostly mower motor bearings, leaky tires, and other things that aren't 
surprising on a machine approaching 50 years old.  I can mow a couple of acres 
of rough lawn and orchard on my 5 year old golf cart batteries, and tow pretty 
good sized loads on trailers when I need to.
Jim, in Menomonie, WI
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Re: [EVDL] All-Electric Car Energy Consumption (EPA) Compared – May 2019

[jim--- via EV]

Should I even ask what the Ford Lightning is going to come out to?  I could not 
find enough published specs to even calculate it.

Jim




-Original Message-
From: "Mark Hanson via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 11:18
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Mark Hanson" 
Subject: [EVDL] All-Electric Car Energy Consumption (EPA) Compared – May 2019



Ps the VW ID4 just came in with a not so good 350 watt hours per mile or 250 
miles on a 82Kwh battery pack.  My Tesla Y does 316 miles on the same 82Kwh 
pack since 279 wh per mile. 
Best regards 
Mark


Hi folks. It’s interesting that the Bolt at 283 whr per mile is Close to the 
Kona 281.  The Tesla Y is slightly better at 279 and the model 3 is best at 
248.  The small Smart car is stupid at 312 crappy aerodynamics.  The Jag is 443 
horrible with the Audi Etron 455 to stay away from.  Efficiency really effects 
range.  I was surprised the Leaf is 301, thought it would be better, oh well. 
https://insideevs.com/news/348093/energy-consumption-epa-compared-may-2019/
Stay charged,
Mark


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] small UPS

[jim--- via EV]

Original Message-
From: "Peri Hartman via EV" 
> Hmm. Well, yes, there are two batteries in it but I can't tell the Ah. 
> I'll find out soon, when the power goes off :)

> You seem reasonably confident that the charger won't overload, it will
> just take longer. My concern is that it might be designed to safely 
> charge at some current level just long enough to get the matching 
> batteries to float state. If I hook up something larger, then the high 
> current will persist a lot longer. Still safe ?

As Lee mentioned in another reply, the built in charger is generally just a 
simply float.  They won't deliver all that much charge, so I have never seen 
one overheat.  Does not mean that it couldn't however.  Check for heat...

> As for the load, it seems that if it's rated for 900w, it should be safe 
> indefinitely at 100w. But who knows.

Likely yes.

> The model is BN1500M2, by APC (schnider).

Sounds very similar to mine.  I'll have to look when I get home.

I have two 1500VA APC UPSes - one in the family room and one in the data 
cabinet.  Both have been modified for external batteries.  The one in the 
family room has about 50AH @ 24 volts and the data cabinet has 145AH @ 24 
volts.  Neither has seem more than an hour of run time because by that time, I 
have the generator running.  

Interesting timing on UPS discussions
I had some excitement yesterday with the data cabinet UPS.  From what I could 
piece together, a cell shorted in one of the two batteries about two weeks ago. 
 The UPS charger tried to keep the voltage up.  This resulted with a bunch of 
current pouring into the battery.  I noticed it when the voltage monitor on the 
battery (not part of the UPS) started reporting voltage fluctuations overnight. 
 When I checked Sunday morning, the first thing I noticed was the heat coming 
from the battery shelf at the bottom.  One of the two batteries was too hot to 
touch, and the other was only a little cooler.  Shut everything down and 
swapped out the UPS batteries.  The UPS charger seems to have survived two 
weeks of heavy charging just fine.  After everything cooled down, the battery 
that had been the hottest is floating about 2 volts lower than the other one, 
so pretty sure it has a shorted cell.
To answer how I determined that the failure was two weeks ago, I have a 
temperature probe for the battery shelf on my environmental alarm for the data 
cabinet.  It showed the battery shelf temperature rise substantially two weeks 
ago, but I had never set up alarm points for the battery shelf temperature.  
That oversight got fixed yesterday!

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] small UPS

[jim--- via EV]

From: "Peri Hartman via EV" 
> The unit I bought is rated for 900w and 1500VA. The specs don't list the
> Wh but, again, my guess is around 100Wh.

That seems a pretty small battery for a 1500VA UPS  Very commonly those use two 
7A 12V sealed Gel Cells in series.

> The idea of hacking the unit and putting in a larger battery is 
> tempting. Theoretically, if it is rated for a 900w loiad, it seems that 
> 100w or even 200w should be safe continuously. But who knows. And that 
> assumption has no relation to charging, where the charger is probably 
> the minimum to safely charge the existing battery.

As I said earlier, that is very similar to what I am running in my family room. 
 Should be fine for invert operation.  The battery charger is small enough that 
it will take a while for recharge.  But it seems to take it just fine.  You can 
also diode block the battery so the UPS is not trying to change it, and run a 
separate charger.


> And a 100W inverter continuous for $30. E.g.
> https://www.amazon.com/Plug-Car-Power-Inverter-Continuous/dp/B00IJSBFN6/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1=car+inverter+100+watt=1621832451=8-7

That shows as a modified wave shape.  Not an issue with a resistive load, but 
some things won't take well to the wave shape.  Caution...

> I don't need rapid charge, just safe charge. Here's a 20A charger, $60:
> https://www.amazon.com/12V-20A-Lead-acid-Battery-Charger/dp/B01LP262I0

For a 100A battery, that is likely more charge capacity than you need - 
especially with your stated non-need for rapid charge.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] opinion article on hydrogen

[jim--- via EV]

Peter VanDerWal said:
> My 3kw solar array paid for itself years ago.  It produces all of the energy 
> used in my house
> for heating, cooling, cooking, etc. as well as 1/2 the energy used by my 
> vehicles.

I wish.  A 3 KW solar array would hardly make a dent at my house.  My about 9 
KW array covers about half of my electrical consumption.  And that is not 
covering cooking (except the microwave), space heating, or water heating.  And 
I don't have an EV (yet).  And this is southern California where we really do 
get lots of sun.

But my house is unusual - or more appropriately the stuff in it.  About the 
lowest my load ever gets is about 2.4KW.  There are five aquariums between 40 
and 90 gallon with thermostatic heaters, air pumps and filters running 24x7, 
five reptile enclosures with heaters running 24x7, and my data cabinet runs 
about 300 watts (more when it's hot and the AC runs more).  Lastly is my 
waterbed heater draws 400 watts when it is running (how much that is depends on 
the weather and how well we are at making the bed).  I am really looking 
forward to the older son moving out and taking the reptiles and several of the 
aquariums with him.  At that point, my solar will provide most of my total 
consumption.

Jim Walls


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Re: [EVDL] J1772 vs Nema flat blade insertion cycles for EV charging

[jim--- via EV]

I like your quote today!  Very good - and so true!

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


-Original Message-
From: Lee Hart's quote for today:
-- 
All children are born engineers. Watch them at play. They're not
just playing; they're experimenting, building and learning. That's
engineering! Then we get them in school and squash it out of them.
(Geoffrey Orsak, Southern Methodist University dean of engineering)



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Re: [EVDL] Apartment dwellers, was: Your mail may arrive by EV - or it may not

[jim--- via EV]

Peter VanDerWal said (in part):
> I think this is more of a distraction than a significant issue.  I'd be 
> willing to bet
> that the majority of "appartment dwellers" don't even own a gas power vehicle 
> at this point.
> In many large cities, the majority of people don't have a place to park ANY 
> car.

Maybe where you live, but certainly not the case here (Los Angeles suburbs).  
Very few apartment buildings here do not have parking for at least one car per 
apartment.


Jim Walls
j...@k6ccc.org



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Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles?

[jim--- via EV]

Bill, you better check your math.  It would take a lot more than "a few square 
kilometers of solar panels put up to supply the entire world’s energy needs".  
In very rough numbers, a square kilometer of fairly high conversion rate solar 
panels is about 250 MegaWatts for roughly a quarter of the day (varies a lot 
depending on location, and installation, and of course it's a curve, not a on 
for x hours followed by off for y hours).  That is not enough to power downtown 
Los Angeles - and I'm not talking about the metro area, just downtown.

250 MW is one fairly small (by today's standards) power plant generating unit.


Jim Walls



-Original Message-
From: "Bill Woodcock via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 07:06
To: "Peri Hartman" , "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 

Cc: "Bill Woodcock" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles?



> On Dec 1, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> Yes, you could give away Teslas !


Yes, more or less.  Over a seven-or-eight-year period, every gasoline and 
diesel vehicle in the world could be replaced with electric at no cost, the 
entire petrochemical fuel infrastructure could be dismantled, and a few square 
kilometers of solar panels put up to supply the entire world’s energy needs, 
after which energy would no longer be a cost, and we could reclaim the many 
trillions of dollars that are being spent on petrochemical subsidies each year 
for actual productive uses.

There are people who argue otherwise, but they’re fundamentally innumerate.  
And that’s really unfortunate.


> -- Original Message --
> From: "Bill Woodcock via EV" 
> To: p...@ingineerix.com; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> 
> Cc: "Bill Woodcock" 
> Sent: 01-Dec-20 2:30:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles?
> 
>> Last time I ran the numbers, every fuel vehicle in the world is being 
>> subsidized by more than USD 5000/year in governmental subsidies to the 
>> gasoline and diesel industries.
>> 
>> There’s a huge amount that you could do with that money.
>> 
>>> On Nov 30, 2020, at 11:32 PM, (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Lawrence is right, Based on my research, just the Electrical energy used
>>> ALONE for all the processes that culminate with a gallon of gasoline in
>>> your tank can move an average EV at least 50 miles.  Another surprising
>>> fact: CA's largest industrial user of electricity is petroleum.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:09 AM Lawrence Rhodes 
 wrote:
 
> I would think that simply not using a liquid powered vehicle would have
> these benefits and energy gains. Energy loss to: Survey, drill, pump,
> transport, refine(this is a big one) distribute, pump again and then you
> get the energy to use plus the added benefit of poisoning every one
> breathing the atmosphere. The elimination of fossil fuels would free up 
> all
> that energy to use in the electrical grid.  So have no fear of running out
> of energy. There will be a reduction of energy use with every new electric
> vehicle. Don't get me started with product packaging and the use of
> plastics. Lawrence Rhodes
> _._,_._,_
> --
> Groups.io Links:
> 
> You receive all messages sent to this group.
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> 
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>> 
>> 
>>-Bill
>> 
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> 
> 

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[jim via EV]

 We've been using small wind since around 1977, and PVs since 1981 or so.  We 
moved in 1989 and brought it all with us and have since installed more so we 
now have about 7 1/2 kw of PVs, and our 2.5kw Jacobs generator is shut off for 
need of a bearing replacement (only repair in 43 years).  We run our house, 
some of our heating, all our air conditioning, our Nissan Leaf, GE Elec-trac 
garden tractor, shop tools, etc. on the PVs.  We're grid tied now and our 
electric bill for 11 months is the minimum connection fee and we usually have a 
bill of around $90 to $100 in January.  Our utility zeros out our account 
January first so we try to use all of our banked energy by the end of December. 
 Before the Leaf we had a VW Golf conversion and before that a CitiCar and then 
a ComutaCar.  Our oldest PV panels (ca1981 35 watt Arco) still produce close to 
what they did 39 years ago--I can't measure the difference with my Fluke 
meters.  We live in a 100+ year old farm house with updated insulation etc., 
but it's a far cry from the superinsulated house we built back in the 1970s.  A 
more efficient house could easily be run completely on our 7.5 kw of PVs.
Jim Erdman, in Menomonie
>On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:34 PM Offgrid Systems via EV 
>wrote:
>
>>  Hey Larry, I think that was me. I did car/house/solar+storage and we are
>>  about 95% net zero on an annualized basis. I am installing a little more
>>  solar and converting my diesel tractor to get to 100%. The upfront cost
>>  is there but now the savings are big. Low fuel and maintenance costs for
>>  the EV's. Same for a passive house, with the bonus being excellent air
>>  quality inside, and cozy warm in the winter. And solar, even here in the
>>  great Pacific Northwest is like magic, super low cost to maintain,
>>  basically clean them off once per year. It's the perfect retirement plan
>>  for me, low outgo, maximum payback and supreme fun!
>>
>>  Tim Economu
>  
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Re: [EVDL] leaf 2011-12 or 2113

[jim via EV]

  Not all 2013 Leafs had the heat pump heat, it was optional on the basic "S" 
model at least through 2017.If you want the heat pump, double check that the 
actual car you are considering has it.
Someone said:>If you really want to save money, the 2011 is probably fine for 
your
>needs. But bear in mind the battery will be shot and, in winter, you'll
>probably only get about 20-30 miles range, depending on temperature and
>how much cabin heat you use.

>The 2013 has a battery heater, which greatly improves cold weather
>range. It also uses a heat pump instead of resistive heating for the
>cabin, which also improves cold weather range.

***
Jim, in Western Wisconsin
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Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)

[jim--- via EV]

The link worked just fine for me.  I find that their results are astoundingly 
bad.  Even with their "better" charging method, they claim a battery is end of 
life after 36 charge cycles.  Excuse me!  Anyone else find that not quite 
right?  I wonder what they were doing to those poor batteries to get that poor 
of a lifetime.


Jim Walls
j...@k6ccc.org


-Original Message-
From: "Peter Eckhoff via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 10:03
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Peter Eckhoff" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)

The article is now linking to "Page Not Found".


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 12:52 PM Peter C. Thompson via EV
 wrote:
>
> Hi Peri,
>
> I don't have personal experience with Tesla, but I do with other OEMs.
> It is very safe to say that the BMS is preventing just that sort of
> problem.
>
> When I read the article, it was about testing to destruction, not about
> how to do safe, long-term charging.  Yeah, FUD again.
>
> I agree that reading history NOW is much more enjoyable, probably
> because we aren't reading those "sanitized" history books from high
> school. :)
>
> Cheers!
>
> On 3/17/20 9:36 AM, Peri Hartman wrote:
> > Thanks ! So, is it reasonably safe to say, especially with Tesla, that
> > the BMS is preventing the kind of excess rapid charging demonstrated
> > in the article ? It seems preposterous that significant damage is
> > occurring to EV batteries. (I know it will cause slow, long term
> > damage.) In which case, the article is intended to scare people and,
> > perhaps, funded by you know who. I looked at the article again, but
> > there's nothing ominous in the funding list.
> >
> > Insomnia: I laugh. When I was in high school, if I had insomnia
> > (rarely), I remember I simply opened my history book and was asleep in
> > a few minutes. (I really enjoy history, now, by the way.)
> >
> > Peri
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Peter C. Thompson via EV" 
> > To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> > Cc: "Peter C. Thompson" 
> > Sent: 17-Mar-20 8:51:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)
> >
> >> Ah, finally, an area where I am an expert. :)
> >>
> >> The communication is defined in ISO 15118-2, the transport layers are
> >> in 15118-3 (PLC) and 15118-8 (wifi). No one is using the wifi version
> >> for DC - only for wireless power.
> >>
> >> However, nowhere in the spec does the battery temp get sent. There is
> >> a warning when the battery is over temp, but that's about it.
> >> Most of the time, the job of protecting the battery is the BMS. The
> >> BMS tells the EV-side charger how much power it can accept, and when
> >> to throttle power.
> >>
> >> Part of this is that the OEMs think that any info about the battery
> >> is confidential information.  Which is why SoC is optional, and not
> >> always sent to the charger.
> >>
> >> And yes, you are absolutely correct, Peri:  you DON'T want to read
> >> these specs... they are a very good cure for insomnia.
> >>
> >> Cheers, Peter
> >>
> >> On 3/17/20 7:05 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> >>> Do you know more, yourself ? I don't really want to study the spec :)
> >>> Peri
> >>>
> >>> -- Original Message --
> >>> From: "paul dove" 
> >>> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
> >>> List" 
> >>> Sent: 17-Mar-20 4:52:28 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or
> >>> anti-EV-hype?)
> >>>
>  DC fast chargers use HCL defined in ISO 15118-8 Specification.
> 
>  Volume eight is the physical and data link layer
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Mar 16, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Peri Hartman via EV
> >  wrote:
> >
> > I thought the level 3 chargers took into account cell temperature
> > and other conditions. I know, for example, that my almost 10 year
> > old Leaf battery charges at only about 10kw now. Something is
> > communicating.
> >
> > Peri
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "evln via EV" 
> > To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> > Cc: "evln" 
> > Sent: 16-Mar-20 12:57:21 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/03/11/fast-charging-damages-electric-car-batteries
> >>
> >> Fast-charging damages electric car batteries
> >> Commercial fast-charging stations subject electric car batteries
> >> to high
> >> temperatures and high resistance that can cause them to crack,
> >> leak, and
> >> lose their ...
> >> https://news.ucr.edu/sites/g/files/rcwecm1816/files/styles/news_article_featured_l/public/2020-03/broken%20Tesla%20battery.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> +
> >> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-03/southern-california-ev-jobs
> >>
> >> The electric-vehicle industry is thriving in Southern California,
> >> report
> >> says

Re: [EVDL] (+more) Lawrence' Leaf: lithium 12v aux battery

[jim via EV]

I have a 2013 Leaf and I found that the 12 volt battery was not keeping a 
charge if the car sat for more than a few days.  After lots of checking current 
draw, etc., I discovered that my cell phone that has Leaf Spy Pro installed was 
the problem.  This is an older phone that no longer has a sim card and is only 
used for Leaf Spy, and I had begun leaving this phone in the garage, plugged in 
to a phone charger, with the phone left "on" so I wouldn't have a delay in 
turning the phone on and getting it connected to the car when I drove the Leaf. 
 But, having the phone "on" and near the car apparently meant that the Leaf's 
computer was running and connected to the phone, draining the 12 volt battery 
in a few days, draining it enough so that the Leaf wouldn't start.  When I 
stopped leaving the phone "on", I quit having Leaf 12 volt battery problems, 
and this same 12 volt battery is working fine over a year later.
Jim Erdman, in Menomonie, WI
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Re: [EVDL] Reed switch source

[jim--- via EV]

Andrew Wood asked:
> Does anyone know where its possible to buy reed switches of large size 
> i.e where the glass tube is about the diameter of a finger? Contact 
> rating only needs to be low voltage/current.

> Also some largeish diameter coils they could be placed in to operate them?


One of these:
https://www.digikey.com
https://www.mouser.com

If they exist, one or both of these will have them.  Although I have never seen 
a reed relay that large.

Jim Walls



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Re: [EVDL] Paine> auto industry's collective EV-ambivalence, w/o-oil movie

[jim--- via EV]

Gail Lucas said (in part):
> EPA site, Alternative Fuels Data Center, Fueling Station Locator:
> Hydrogen - 45 sites in US and Canada
> Electric - 28,344 sites in US and Canada

And that last number is going up damn near daily.
We just added four EV charging spots in the public part of the city of Glendale 
Civic Center parking structure - in addition to the two in the employee part of 
the structure (that get used almost constantly).

Jim Walls
City of Glendale, CA


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Re: [EVDL] Sunday, Sunday, Sunday> 2020 Mach-E EV reservations for 2021 deliveries

[jim--- via EV]

David said (in part):
> I know they make more profit with vehicles like this, but I sure wish the
> automakers weren't so single-minded about what they build.  So many SUVs
> and crossovers! 

The sell them because that's what A LOT of people want.  People want a larger 
vehicle that can carry a bunch of stuff and people, and not take s shoehorn to 
get in and out of.  Personally I am a fairly large guy and I practically have 
to fold myself in half to get in and out of my wife's Toyota Corolla.  It's not 
bad once I'm inside, but getting in is a pain.  In full disclosure, I drive a 
Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 crew cab pickup (which I fit into very well).  I am NOT one 
of the guys with a big pickup that never gets it off road or carries stuff - I 
do NEED a full size 4x4 pickup often enough.  I fully admit that it's a lousy 
single person commuting car, so I take public traffic almost any day that I 
don't have a need to drive.  I have also been known to rent a more practical 
car for long distance drives when I didn't need the big truck.

On a related side note, have you noticed how many police departments have 
switched to Ford Explorers?  Now, part of that is because Ford stopped building 
the Crown Victoria (which practically owned that market for a lot of years).  
But the other part is how much stuff the average patrol car carries.  With the 
last of our Crown Vic patrol cars, almost the entirety of the trunk was taken 
up with technology.  Many departments removed the spare tire to make room, and 
would call a tow truck on the rare occasion that a tire needed to be changed 
out in the field.  With the trunk full, the office would have to put all the 
stuff he used to be able to put in the trunk into the right front seat.  The 
Explorers don't make as good of pursuit vehicles, but they are better for 
almost everything else.  BTW, with all the stuff on an officer's belt, they 
appreciate the larger seats.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 Thermal Imaging Opinions?

[jim--- via EV]

Mr. Sharkey said (in part):

> Soft aluminum and copper make me queasy when I have to test the 
> threads. I played it safe and only torqued to 8 ft.lbs. Anyone know 
> the official torque spec on Thundersky's?

No idea on the Thundersky.  The large Telecomm batteries we use at work are 110 
inch pounds - or about 9 foot pounds.  We torque them all correctly.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 Thermal Imaging Opinions?

[jim--- via EV]

Mr. Sharkey said (in part):
> Well, it looks like this issue may have been one of my own making. 
> When I went to remove the cell interconnect strap, both bolts into 
> the cell terminals were "just snug", not tight. Apparently I got 
> distracted when completing the BMS card swap, and didn't torque the bolts.

That was the important part.  The next few paragraphs were not the issue.  Just 
snug was your issue.

Glad you found something!

Jim Walls




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Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 Thermal Imaging Opinions?

[jim--- via EV]

Yes.  Heat is going to conduct better through the metal plates of the batter vs 
the electrolite.  Therefore, the heat if generated at the connector is going to 
conduct along the metal plates.  Assuming that the plates in that battery are 
vertical, I would expect something similar to what is being seen.

Also note that the strap is FAR hotter than the portion of the strap visible at 
the left edge of the IR image, and that the right end of the strap and the top 
of the cell on the right that is connected to that strap is also warm.  There 
is a lot of heat being generated in the strap or more likely the connection 
between the left end of the strap and the top of the battery.

We use IR images using similar equipment here at work for checking electrical 
connections quite regularly.  

For a little entertainment, a couple years ago I used a thermal imaging camera 
to demonstrate how hot a lighting controller board got under heavy load.  I 
posted the results on a Christmas Lighting forum.  You should be able to read 
it - although you can't post a reply unless you are a member of that forum.
http://forums.lightorama.com/topic/45960-how-warm-does-a-sandevices-e682-get/


Jim


-Original Message-
From: "Peri Hartman via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 10:53
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 Thermal Imaging Opinions?

Wow, hat's a great observation. Question: is it significant that the IR 
image also shows heat emanating vertically, appearing to be relatively 
uniform ?
Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "jim--- via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "j...@k6ccc.org" 
Sent: 01-Oct-19 10:36:24 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 Thermal Imaging Opinions?

>>  A close-up of the cell, looking from the front of the pack. It's been 
>> photoshopped to blend the IR image with the visible image to provide some 
>> perspective of the actual appearance:
>>
>>  http://www.westlanetv.org/~sharkey/evgfx/Hot_Cell_2.jpg
>
>Carefully check the connection on that cell that is closest to the camera.  
>Note that only the one end of the cell is warmer - not both ends.  I would 
>suspect that the connection is marginal and causing the heat.  The heat has 
>conducted into that end of the cell.
>
>73
>-
>Jim Walls - K6CCC
>j...@k6ccc.org
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 Thermal Imaging Opinions?

[jim--- via EV]

> A close-up of the cell, looking from the front of the pack. It's been 
> photoshopped to blend the IR image with the visible image to provide some 
> perspective of the actual appearance:
> 
> http://www.westlanetv.org/~sharkey/evgfx/Hot_Cell_2.jpg

Carefully check the connection on that cell that is closest to the camera.  
Note that only the one end of the cell is warmer - not both ends.  I would 
suspect that the connection is marginal and causing the heat.  The heat has 
conducted into that end of the cell.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] Public station, private ownership?

[jim via EV]

Locally (Menomonie, WI, about an hour east of St Paul, MN) our food co-op and 
an electric car owner/investor are hoping to install two level 2 and a 75kW 
level 3 charging stations at the co-op storefront location.  They are figuring 
on about $50,000 by the time it is functional (most of the cost due to the 
level 3 charging).  I'm not sure how payment for charging will be done, but I 
thought that the total estimated cost that they are assuming was interesting.
Jim Erdman, in Menomonie, WI
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Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

[jim--- via EV]

I did a similar when my sidewalk was replaced a decade or so ago.  Not for EV 
charging however.  I ran two 3/4" water pipes for sprinklers for the grass in 
the parking strip, and two 3/4" electrical conduits for lighting.  I just 
capped them at each end for future use.  The water ones may not get used 
because I may end up with artificial turn there, but one of these days I expect 
to use the electrical conduits.

Jim Walls
K6CCC



-Original Message-
From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 10:35
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Robert Bruninga" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

Go buy a piece of 1.5" PVC conduit and get it down before they pour the
concrete!
Then you can run your cord under the sidewalk ANY time you want later.  Bob

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg via EV
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

The timing of this discussion is great.
My sidewalk is being replaced.
I had asked the contractor before he started if I would be able to use my
driveway and he said not at all.

So, on the way home, I stopped at the only fast charger in the
neighborhood
the ChadeMo plug was available, but the machine only serves one at a time,
and there was a big NYC SUV-taxi charging on CCS.   I talked to the driver,
he was settled in for the long haul.  I gave him encouragement about driving
an EV.
There are not so many places to charge in NYC at the moment.

So I arrived home almost on empty.
At about 1:00 am, I pulled my car into my neighbor's driveway, moved the
cable for my OpenEVSE to that side of the house, put a note to say "Sorry to
block you, Knock if you need to get out", and sat down in the DR to install
a couple of Ensemble/HealthShare instances.
There was no knock, and I moved the car at 2.

The differences are - I was tresspassing/blocking him, but I knew if I had
asked, he would allow.
And it was my electricity, about 6 KWh.

Then, last night, I wanted to top off
Long ago, I had asked the City Code official if I would be allowed to put an
outlet at the curb, and was told, no, it is a right-of-way
and they won't allow a cord across the sidewalk.

Well, my sidewalk is a construction zone.
So I parked with the nose of my car touching the cones, ran 50'  12  gauge
extension across the gravel and the forms, and charged over night.  I might
need to do the same Monday night, since I drive again on Tuesday.  Or I can
explore a Level 2 that I have not visited yet in a neighboring town


On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 9:57 AM paul dove via EV  wrote:

> What’s funny about that is that he couldn’t have gotten more than 2 or
> 3 dollars worth of electricity.
>
> Maybe a misdemeanor not even sure a judge would bother when the did
> the math but that is very rude.
>
> I can see the home owner being upset and worse yet parking in the grass.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 27, 2019, at 3:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28524175/tesla-owner-steals-electri
> city-charging/
> > Florida Man Parks His Tesla Overnight on a Stranger's Lawn to Steal
> > Electricity Jul 26, 2019  Clifford Atiyeh
> >
> > [image
> >
> https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/screen-sh
> ot-2019-07-26-at-6-16-20-pm-1564179397.png
> > Tesla charging on front lawn  / WPBF News ]
> >
> > The owner of the Tesla Model 3 used an extension cord to plug in to
> > a complete stranger's outlet for 12 hours.
> >
> >This actually happened and is not a joke, as reported by WPBF 25
> > in
> Lake
> > Worth, Florida.
> >
> >A Tesla Model 3 was left outside on a homeowner's lawn for 12
> > hours to charge using his electricity, all without his knowledge or
> > permission.
> >
> >Please do not be this pathetic while driving an EV.
> >
> > Driving an electric car can sometimes make a calm person slide into
> bouts of
> > extreme desperation. That may be the kindest way to describe why a
> Florida
> > man ditched his Tesla on another person's lawn, stole electricity
> > from
> that
> > house, and walked off to party with friends in the middle of the night.
> >
> > WPBF 25 television reported this exact scene in Lake Worth, a
> > seaside
> locale
> > just south of West Palm Beach, that occurred last Friday. The Model
> > 3
> owner,
> > who was lucky to be unnamed in the story and have trespassing
> > charges dropped by the homeowner, said his car's battery had died on
> > the way to a friend's house around midnight. So, he figured, why not
> > pull up onto a stranger's front lawn and stretch a 120-volt cord to
> > an external outlet—a grounded plug surrounded by well-manicured
> > landscaping, just perfect—and leave the car for 12 hours?
> >
> > Homeowner Phil Phil Fraumeni said he woke up on that Friday morning
> > to a call from his landscaper asking him to move his white Model 3
> > off the
> lawn.
> > 

[EVDL] Solar charging an EV

[Jim via EV]

I charge my Volts for what I consider nothing.

Here in Phoenix on APS, (one of our 2 power Companies), I charge my 2 Chevy 
Volts during the day.. with my solar equipped house.

Because I purchased and installed my solar before September of 2017, I am 
grandfathered for 20 years at the rate plan I chose.

They have different rate plans but the one I'm on is 9 to 9 five days a week, 
no holidays or any other days apply differently, 9Am to 9Pm is "on peak" and 
9Pm to 9Am is "off peak".

>From May to September the rates are higher of course being somewhere around 
>$0.20 per KWhr for "on peak" and $0.07 for "off peak".

My advantage is that I produce more than I use "On Peak" than I do "Off Peak"
This keeps most of my monthly bills at about the minimum of $30 a month to use 
their power lines, meters and reading my meter etc, while charging 2 EV's.

The catch to this "Net Metering" is that they will buy the excess for $0.297.

They adjust it every month and any excess is banked until after the December 
billing. My December bill was -$2.31.

Why should I use $0.07 "off peak" electricity rather than use electricity that 
I am going to sell for less than 3 cents?

I've looked at going "off the grid" but the numbers aren't there to being any 
advantage.

The hardest part was trying to figure out how to program the Volts to charge 
during the day because the default in the programing is "off peak" rates are of 
course at night.

Jim - Glendale, AZ
www.evalbum.com/1703
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Re: [EVDL] Solar off grid with an EV?

[jim via EV]

 Microinverters that are currentlly available require grid tie to function, or 
some source of good AC to feed into.  My garage and shop system is off grid and 
charges the Leaf in addition to running other stuff, but it has a seperate 1500 
amp hour 24 volt battery that is charged by solar and wind.  I can charge the 
Leaf at up to 4 kw due to the size of my inverter.  There is currently no 
simple way to do what you are thinking of.
Jim Erdman, in Western Wisconsin
On Friday, July 12, 2019, 03:09:26 PM CDT, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org 
 wrote:  
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:54:39 + (UTC)
From: Mark Laity-Snyder 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Subject: [EVDL] Solar off grid with an EV?
Message-ID: <1050893527.312695.1562961279...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi all,

Would it be possible to hook a small solar panel system to an EV and use the EV 
as the battery storage for an off grid solar system?  What would be needed to 
make that happen?  I envision solar panels connected to microinverters which 
would then charge the EV.  Then if you needed power at night, you could use 
some power from the EV.  Would that work?  Would you need another part to that 
puzzle to get it to work?  Would it cause problems for the EV?

I am not looking to do this myself but we had a guy come and charge his Tesla 
at our place.  He has a lot and camper where he goes camping and would like to 
install solar and be off grid.  I was just wondering what that setup would look 
like.

Mark.

**
  
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Re: [EVDL] leaf milage life

[jim via EV]

The mileage you could expect would depend a lot on how it was charged and what 
climate it was used in.  Nisssan changed some battery chemistry, I believe, in 
2013, so a 2011 would be even more susceptible to damage to the battery than 
later vehicles.  If the car is running,  Leafspy should work, with the 
appropriate bluetooth adapter.  The adapter is a Bluetooth OBDII scanner 
plugged into the Leaf's OBD port and a Bluetooth connection to the phone. The 
adapter is purchased seperately from the LeafSpy software.  New I would expect 
a 2011 Leaf to have gotten 85 to 90 miles in warm weather on mostly flat roads 
with little wind.  So a 2011 with 80k miles might get half that miles on a full 
charge.. Jim, in Menomonie, WI-- owner of  a 2013 Leaf & using LeafSpy Pro.

>  a local junk yard has a runing 2011 sl with 80k on it and asking $5k,
> it as a salvage title.  if it was drained deeply very often vs medium
> use whats the range of miles I could expect.  like low 90k  high  150 k
> ?.. I imgaine the warrnty is gone.
>
> does leafspy need hard ware installed  to do testing ?
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[EVDL] Subject: Differential issue

[Jim via EV]

Subject: [EVDL] Differential issue

>>Hi All,Our 1995 Solectria E10 (converted Chevy S10) has a failing 
differential. 

>This car has a very high ratio in the differential. Something like ~8:1. 
>Most ICE vehicles have ~3:1 or 4:1.
>
>The gears may prove difficult to replace. I would start by replacing all 
>the standard, more ordinary parts, like the bearings. Replacing the 
>bearings may add some life to the worn gears.
>
>Here is an Ebay listing for your gear box:
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/azure-dynamics-solectria-at1200-gear-box-with-park-pawl-10-1/123007116723?hash=item1ca3cba5b3:g:V2wAAOSwx7VaoEH4
>I would snap that up if I were you. :-)
>
>Here is a motor and gear box from the same seller:
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/AZURE-DYNAMICS-SOLECTRIA-AC24LS-W-AT1200-12-1-GEAR-BOX-/123791157714?vxp=mtr=item1cd28729d2
>
>I would also highly recommend putting in Schaeffer Oil brand gearlube, 
>instead of the ordinary parts store gear lube you are running. Don't 
>know what they put in it, but it is superior.
>https://www.schaefferoil.com/
>
The Solectria E-10 did not use a transaxle.. as David correctly pointed out,  
it has a differential that was reversed from the original position. the Pinion 
faces the rear of the truck and is driven from a central hub via a short 
driveshaft, (between the motors), from a gilmer,(toothed), belt set, one from 
each of the two motors, (which also face the rear bumper).
One of my two E-10's has the original differential and one has a standard 8.5" 
GM unit that is NOT reversed but still drives from the rear. This was 
accomplished by blocking off the forward facing pinion and removing the rear 
cover, then engineering/machining a new section to carry the pinion.
This was done before I purchased the truck, presumably by the original owner 
which was APS, our power company.
Both differentials have about the same ratio of around 3.70:1. Along with the 
reduction of the belt drive/driven pulleys enables an overall ratio of about 
9.0:1.

I would think a good differential repair shop would be able to rebuild it.

Jim
(To see the APS truck's diff.)
www.evalbum.com/1703
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Re: [EVDL] BEV sales since 2012

[jim--- via EV]

Cool!

Jim Walls



-Original Message-
From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" 
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2019 09:18
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" 
Subject: [EVDL] BEV sales since 2012

Very cool video showing BEV sales since 2012.

https://twitter.com/mintotsai/status/1131929301723566080?s=21


- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] Does anyone really think Tesla can last?

[jim--- via EV]

AMEN to that!  Very well said.  Except that I would love to buy a Tesla, but 
not in the budget.


Jim Walls



-Original Message-
From: EVDL Administrator

I doubt that I'll ever buy a Tesla, for my own personal reasons, but I have 
a huge amount of respect for Elon Musk, Tesla, Tesla's vehicles, and what 
they've done to advance the EV cause.

But today Elon Musk is both Tesla's biggest strength and their biggest 
liability.  If they fail, there's a very good chance that it'll be on his 
head.  Musk keeps doing crazy, reckless, childish stuff.  Most of all, he 
can't keep his mouth shut when he needs to.  And, to put it bluntly, he's a 
world class jerk.  

Musk is a genius, no question about that, but some of the very same 
personality quirks he has that have dramatically advanced the EV cause and 
made Tesla a success are now threatening to destroy his company and maybe 
even harm EVs in general.   

Musk should be kept as a creative force in Tesla, NOT pushed out the way 
Apple did with Steve Jobs in 1985.  However, they can't let him continue to 
be the company's public face.  They need a way to settle him down a little 
and get him out of public view.  They can't continue to let him throw epic  
tantrums and make ugly, bloody messes.  One of these days he's going to make 
a mess that's impossible to clean up, or infuriate someone with real power, 
and that will be the beginning of the end for Tesla.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Road Trips: plugin vs EV cost per mile (4 cents average)

[jim--- via EV]

Bob said (in part):
> For a pure EV. Yes, they pay 28 cents per kwh for that 13% of the time,
> but all the rest of the time they pay very reduced rates overnight.  Our
> utility offers EV charging overnight at 3 cents per kWh.   That's almost
> TEN TIMES cheaper than when they charge on the road.

Consider yourself lucky that you get that low of an off-peak rate.  Ours is 
either 12 or 13 cents depending on Summer or Winter for the overnight TOU rate.



73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] OT: Wind boost converters

[jim via EV]

The 1800 watt Jacobs didn't make more power than the 2500 or 2800 models.  They 
all had the same blade and governor assembly (which may have been either 
flyball or blade controlled) so they put out the same power in the same 
windspeed up to a point, but the 1800 was a shorter machine (length of 
armature)  and its maximum amp output was about 45 amps, while the 2500 maxed 
at 60+ amps and the 2800 at a bit more--but it took a slightly stronger wind 
for the bigger machines to reach maximum output.
The Bergeys and most other modern machines are actually 3-phase, rather than 
brush type DC generators like the Jacobs, and their power characteristics and 
method of control are quite different.Don't forgeet th basic rule of thumb when 
siting a wind turbine "30 feet higher than anything within 500 feet".  A 48 
foot tower isn't tall enough if it will be near buildings or trees.  I hope you 
are installing them on a grassy hilltop with good wind.
Jim Erdman, in Menomonie, WI
  1. Re: OT: Wind boost converters (vio...@alliancecom.net)

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:00:46 -0500
From: vio...@alliancecom.net
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Wind boost converters
Message-ID:
    <20190423140046.horde.le4uidh1yajcjfzpfuvy...@webmail.alliancecom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed";
    DelSp="Yes"

  Quoting Lee Hart via EV :

Having heard that the vintage Jacobs 1800 watt made more power than  
the 2800 watt plant, I am considering putting up one of each. There is  
a lot of 10 mph wind and I expect inertia might be a factor. I have  
two 48 ft towers next to each other. I could see how each one did  
charging the L16 battery. If I get it done I will try to share the  
results. I am excited about possibly powering our Tesla with a  
combination of PV and wind. Thanks to you all for your help...Ron


   
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[EVDL] Jacobs wind turbine charging 48volts---was: NMC /w zero volts

[jim via EV]

A 32 volt 1940s vintage Jacobs generator will work fine charging a 48 volt 
battery.  It will produce the same maximum amperage at the 60 volts to fully 
charge a 48 volt battery as it produces at 40+ volts to charg a 32 vollt 
battery.  Among us Jacobs users, it is very common to use a 32 volt Jacobs to 
charge a 48 volt battery and they work well, if the battery and load is large 
enough, without any electronic generator regulation.  All I use is a hefty 
diode (rated at100 amps or more at 200 piv or greater, depending on what is 
available at a good price) as an anti-motoring diode, and a fuse.  The stock 
original cabinet of relays isn't necessary.  The wind turbine will work fine, 
and will produce the maximum amps (70A for the 2.8Kw machine) at the higher 
voltage and therefore more watts, in a slightly higher windspeed than in its 
original configuration.  We've been using our Jacobs 2500 watt machine since 
1977.Make sure your tower is properly and adequately grounded--nearby lightning 
strikes sometimes blow out my anti-motoring diode even with good grounding of 
the tower.No DC-to-DC converters or other fancy stuff needed.
Jim Erdman, in Menomonie, WI
QUESTION ON A PROPOSED 32/48 VOLT DC?MIX:

Since I just monitor the EVDL, I have not learned the correct  
procedures to post. I hope that jumping in here with a question will  
be acceptable.

Question: Will a vintage 2800 watt, 32 Volt Jacobs wind generator  
charge an L16 FLA, Interstate 48 Volt battery?

The Proposed System:

A 48 Volt DC to 120/240 AC ?Out Back inverter would be fed by a ?4000  
or 8000 Watt PV panel. My question then, is it feasible to add the 32  
volt wind plant to charge the battery on a cloudy day?


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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[jim--- via EV]

First, I said (in part):
> there is no way I would buy any car without having driven on. 

Then David Roden replied (in part):
> At one time I would have heartily agreed with this sentiment.  But after 
almost 5 decades of driving more different vehicles (owned, borrowed, 
rented) than I can count, I've discovered that I can learn to live with a 
lot of vehicle characteristics that I despised at first drive.


There is certainly truth to that statement.  However one of the big ones would 
be if I fit in the vehicle.  I'm a fairly large guy, and for example, in my 
wife's Corolla, I practically have to fold myself in half to get in and out of 
it.  Although it's not bad once I'm in, but getting in and out is a royal pain. 
 There is no way that could be my daily vehicle.


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[jim--- via EV]

Here's my two cents on the subject of no dealers.  And I completely agree with 
the description of car dealers as sharks.  This is likely considered an upper 
middle class neighborhood and we drove into the lots in a brand new Nissan 
Rogue (the rental she had after the accident).  We were dressed neatly but 
casual.

A year and a half ago, my wife needed to replace a car after the insurance paid 
for her previous van that had gotten totaled in an accident.  In our city (a 
little less than 2 miles from home), there are four dealerships right next to 
each other - Chevy, Toyota, Ford & Dodge - in that order.  We started at Chevy 
and ended at Dodge.  By the time we finished at the Dodge place, we were tired 
of car shopping and went home for some dinner.  Over dinner, she decided on a 
Toyota Corolla, so we called the dealer and let him know that we would be 
coming back to see him shortly.  We came back up to lease the car for three 
years with the expectation that we will likely buy out the lease after the 
three years.

Everyone knew that we were expecting to lease a car that day.  The attitude in 
the dealerships were very different.  The Chevy guys were the closest to 
stereotypical car dealers.  They were doing everything they could to sell to us 
before we walked off the lot.  Very pushy.  On the other extreme were the Dodge 
that were not at all treating us seriously.  I don't think they expected to 
sell a car that day.  The Toyota guy was a nice as you could imagine and 
treated us completely with respect.  

Within a 15 mile radius, there is dealership for almost every brand of cars 
that are available (excluding a few specialty brands).  The only cars that were 
considered were the ones that had a dealership close to home.  I somewhat 
expected her to want to visit a Nissan dealership because she really liked the 
Rogue that she was renting, but it was 10 miles in the other direction.  In 
case you are wondering, a Tesla model S was not even considered because of 
price and we could not wait for three months after ordering one.  The nearest 
Tesla store is about 20 miles away.

With all that said, there is no way I would buy any car without having driven 
on.  I have said for several years that I want a Model S so bad I can taste it, 
but other than seeing them on the road, I have never touched one.  Even if I 
won the lottery (I don't play), I would not buy one without driving one.  And 
no, I don't know anyone that has one.

Jim Walls
j...@k6ccc.org



-Original Message-
From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" 
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 16:59
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

I agree that we won’t miss car dealers if they go away, as least if the 
experience is as it is now.

We call the gathering of salespeople waiting for you to get out of your car, 
the “sharks”. And there’s always one swimming out to get you.

I was amused when the Honda fleet person that I’ve bought from, who is not a 
shark, referred to the sales people as sharks one day when we chatted while my 
car was getting serviced.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 8:55 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/10/19 10:32 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> At this point in their venture, it seems online sales will be fine. After 
>> all, they have back orders they are struggling to meet, even for the S, I 
>> think.
> 
> It seems to me, for the models now offered at the pricing levels, that Tesla 
> is well balancing supply and demand.  Demand generators will the the $35k 3 
> and the Y.  With many more in the pipeline.  We all watch with interest to 
> see how it plays out.  I am very bullish on Tesla.  A the same time, 
> recognizing the risk.
>> However, at some point when they have real competition and their production 
>> has caught up, they may want to change their mind. Buying cars, while not an 
>> impulse purchase, certainly relies on touchy-feely appeal. Once a buyer sees 
>> a car, and a good sales person realizes the "connection", there's a process 
>> you can't replicate online.
> 
> I doubt that it is quantified, but there certainly seems to be a GREAT deal 
> of dissatisfaction with new car dealers and the car buying experience.  The 
> jury, of course, is still out but personally I don't think new car dealers 
> will be missed.
> 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Toyota dealers say there is no sale$ demand.us forEVs

[jim--- via EV]

On the last points, you are largely wrong.  To most of the people on this list, 
delivering a half megawatt to a really fast charger seems like a large amount 
of power.  To your electric utility, that is a trivial amount of power.  That's 
only a few amps on a 12KV distribution circuit.  The electric utilities are not 
at all worried about the ability to handle large amounts of electric vehicles - 
particularly at night when loads are normally lowest.

BTW, my Dad was a power plant operator for his career and I spent 24 years at 
the 2nd largest utility in California, so I have a little understanding of the 
electric system.

Jim Walls



-Original Message-
From: "Peter Eckhoff via EV" 
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 08:35
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Peter Eckhoff" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Toyota dealers say there is no sale$ demand.us forEVs

If current batteries have around 215 whr/kg and Amprius's new battery which
maybe rated as much as 435 whr/kg (if in the same volume), a Model 3 with a
300 mile range could conceivably have a 600 mile range and a Bolt could
have a 480 mile range.  At 60 miles per hour, the max range occurs at about
10 hours and 8 hours of driving, respectively.  Basically, a full day of
driving with no pit stops for a meal and/or personal weight adjustment.

But if you want to press on for another 10 or 8 hours, I've timed a family
pit stop at about 30 minutes and add to that the time it would take to do
an ICE refuel at a semi-busy set of interstate pumps, you have a minimum of
40 minutes that could be used to recharge an EV.  Let's make it an hour.

For an hour full recharge, a Model 3 and Bolt would need 150 and 120
kwhrs.  At 480 volts, that's 312 amp-hours; a bit much.  But spread that
over a good night's sleep, shower, breakfast, repacking, checkout, etc. for
a total of 14 hours, that's 22 amp-hours  which is not unreasonable or 10
hours at 32 amps.

A trip from Omaha to Rapid City, SD is 524 miles and taking a side trip to
Fossil Bed State Park is completely doable with no range anxiety; maybe a
slight top off for a Bolt at Wall or one of the other small towns along the
way.

The biggest hurdle will be the generation, storage, and distribution of the
energy to recharging points.

Has anyone read what the utilities are planning on doing?







On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 9:08 AM Collin Kidder via EV 
wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 7:43 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> >
> > If fast charging is so vital, how come the market isn't flooded with
> > fast chargers for cellphones, laptops, power tools, and all our other
> > battery-operated toys?
>
> ?!?!?!?! Umm IT IS. The market most certainly is packed full with
> fast chargers for cellphones. They all advertise how their new 9v wall
> wart and cable will charge your phone up like 80% in 45 minutes or
> some such thing. Companies like Samsung have specifically built fast
> charging into their premium phones. Likewise on power tools. As you
> might expect, people doing construction burn through batteries on
> portable tools. So, those chargers tend to be quite fast also - they
> even have thermal management but only in the form of "we won't charge
> this battery until it's not hot anymore." Laptops don't tend to have
> super fast chargers because you can usually use them plugged in anyway
> so the battery ends up being more like a built-in UPS.
>
> So, yeah, fast charging most certainly exists where there is a use
> case for it. I can see the draw of fast charging for electric cars
> too. It's true that 90% of the time you don't need it and can charge
> slowly at home. But, as EVs become more prevalent there will be cases
> where people have nothing else. In that case if you have to drive 700
> miles somewhere then you need some fast chargers. I think the biggest
> draw for fast chargers are that they fill the gap we currently have
> where you can recharge quickly with gasoline (only maybe 4 minutes)
> but you can't do that in an EV. So, people are used to filling up
> quickly and want to retain that. This is mostly psychological but you
> can't discount that. Psychological issues are very real and saying
> "just charge at home" doesn't cut it. People aren't looking for your
> alternatives, they're looking for ways to do what they want to do.
> There are many people who won't get an EV until they feel like they
> can charge it back up anywhere and quickly. Until then they've got
> their gas guzzler that can do that.
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Re: [EVDL] Easy to hard solar charging.

[jim--- via EV]

That likely comes from a difference in the trailers.  Although this is not EV 
related, let me cite two examples.  Growing up, my parents had a small RV 
trailer and also a ski boat.  The boat on its trailer weighed about 40% more 
than the RV trailer.  Towing the RV trailer had a MASSIVE impact on the gas 
mileage, whereas towing the boat was hardly noticed.  What was the difference?  
The RV was essentially towing a billboard into the wind, whereas the boat was 
fairly aerodynamic.


Jim



-Original Message-
From: "Willie via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 05:48
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Willie" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Easy to hard solar charging.



On 10/30/18 7:31 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> Towing a simple 4'x4' garden trailer behind my priius drops MPG from 55 to
> 40.  A huge drop.

Very oddly, towing a small trailer with an imiev seems to have very 
little effect.  The imiev range is 60-65 miles.  When I towed 20+20 
miles, I was worried about having sufficient range.  But, I got home 
with about 15 miles remaining.  So, the towing cost only about 10%. One 
way was empty, the other with about 300 pounds of stuff.  Trailer is a 
Harbor Freight type flatbed, about 200 pounds with very low profile.  In 
that test, the load was also very low, lumber stacked less than 1' high.

Towing a ~1000 pound teardrop with a Tesla costs 20-30%.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars

[jim--- via EV]

Mark Abramowitz said:
> Most people I know don’t have multiple cars for multiple purposes, unless 
> they are 
> wealthy.

> Most do have a “one car fits all”.

Amen to that.  I really need three cars, but drive one that is not idea for the 
majority of my driving, but required for some of it.  I can assure you that a 
full sized, crew cab 4x4 pickup is NOT the ideal one person commuting car, but 
is required for other stuff...  I could rent (and have a few times) one of the 
three, but the truck as equipped can not be rented.


Jim Walls


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Re: [EVDL] Weird DC-DC problem

[jim--- via EV]

Yes, part of that does sound like a REALLY trashed 12V battery.  The other part 
is a guess that when the Zilla draws a lot of power, the HV battery pack is 
sagging enough that the power supply is at least partially shutting down.  What 
is the power supply and what is the power that it's getting supplied with?

Jim Walls




-Original Message-
From: "John Lussmyer via EV" 
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 19:44
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "John Lussmyer" , "SEVA" 

Subject: [EVDL] Weird DC-DC problem

I have my F-250 back on the road after some (long drawn out, time wasted) 
repairs to a motor terminal, and rebuilding the transmission.
(and exploding a contactor...)
I'm getting some really WEIRD results with my DC-DC. (ok, power supply)
It's capable of 50A output, and is set for about 14v output.

When I start the truck, it zooms up to around 50A for a few seconds (probably 
trying to top off the weak 12V battery), then gradually drops down to 25A or so 
for the trucks basic needs.  All this time the voltage sits at around 13.9V.

Then I start driving, as I have the Zilla start pulling significant power - the 
DC-DC output voltage drops, sometimes as low as 11v.  The REALLY REALLY weird 
bit is that it's still only supplying 25-30A.
If I take my foot off the pedal, the voltage shoots back up to 13.9v.

Right now, I'm assuming the (nearly dead) 12V battery is the main issue - but 
shouldn't the DC-DC start pumping out more current when something is drawing 
down the battery like that?

Also, since the Zilla doesn't actually use more 12V power, it makes no sense.  
The voltage drop does seem to be kind-of in proportion to how hard i'm pressing 
on the accelerator pedal.

(I should also note that my Tach Sensor seems to be not working correctly, as 
it's readding way low - and not fully consistent.  So probably having noise 
problems on the signal or power lines.  Gonna try replacing the capacitors on 
those.)

--
Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] more: EVcrash Tesla-X ... Mt_View-CA (v)

[jim--- via EV]

Category 3 Instrument Landing Systems and approaches are are full AutoLand and 
have been around for decades.  Requires special equipment in the aircraft and 
special pilot certification.


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land
Instrument Airplane
(not certified for Cat 3 landings)


-Original Message-
From: "Cal Frye via EV" 
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 05:13
To: "Peri Hartman" , "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 

Cc: "Cal Frye" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] more: EVcrash Tesla-X ... Mt_View-CA (v)

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> I'm sure there's much more. Great technology, but "autopilot" is
> easily misinterpreted to mean autonomous. Even in aviation,
> "autopilot" is not autonomous. You still need to monitor the gages,
> watch the air space for other air traffic, and in particular, handle
> landing. 
I believe Boeing has been working on landings, but relying on precise
GPS rather than stripes on the landing strip.

-- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com
 "Here is the test to find whether your mission on Earth is finished: if
you're alive, it isn't." -- Richard Bach, American writer.
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Re: [EVDL] 500 mile range Legway

[jim--- via EV]

I can assure you that I would NOT want to pedal 500 miles on that.  Heck, I'm 
pretty sure I would not want to pedal 500 feet on that!
 
 
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


-Original Message-
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 09:35
To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" 
Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
Subject: [EVDL] 500 mile range Legway



Of course it takes power from somewhere. Lawrence Rhodes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG78Dg5E1cE
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Re: [EVDL] Smearing with coal (again)

[jim--- via EV]

Absolutely.  At least around here, the renewable sourced electricity goes into 
the system regardless.  It is not a controllable source (other than opening 
breakers - which does not happen).  And at the wholesale level, the utilities 
pay a very high price for that power.  Here is a very simplified hypothetical 
example.  If 90% of the non-renewable power costs $50 per MegaWattHour, 9% 
costs $60 per MWH and 1% costs $400 per MWH, the renewable gets paid at the 
$400 rate, and the electric utilities have no choice in the price of if they 
buy it - they are required to.  It matter absolutely none whether anyone pays a 
"green power" rate.  As several people pointed out, if more people pay for the 
"green" energy, it can have the political affect that I alluded to, but that 
his not likely to have any effect on someone deciding to build more green power.
 
BTW, a note that this data is a few years old, but I am not aware that it has 
changed.
 
Jim


-Original Message-
From: "Jan Steinman via EV" 
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 13:59
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Jan Steinman" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smearing with coal (again)



> From: "j...@k6ccc.org" 
> 
> That is such a crock - I'm talking about people paying extra to get "green" 
> power. All that means is people are stupid enough to pay extra for something 
> that would have been there whether they paid for it or not.

Are you so certain that is the case?

In our case (at least) BC Hydro does not buy third-party wind power unless 
directed to do so. The Bullfrog Power customers cause BC Hydro to purchase 
Bullfrog's power, rather than supplying Bullfrog Power customers with BC Hydro 
power.

At least, that’s what everyone from Bullfrog to BC Hydro to the BC Utility 
Commission tells us. Are they lying?

BC Hydro *can* throttle its dams if it buys wind power. Are you saying they do 
not do so? If not, where does the extra power go? Is the voltage higher than it 
would be if wind power were not “on line?” Would the voltage drop if the wind 
power suddenly “went away?"

Can you provide some evidence that “it does not change the generation mix at 
all?”

de N7JDB

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Re: [EVDL] No, electric cars (still) aren't crashing the grid. Again: Good News: EVs Are Not ...

[jim--- via EV]

Michael Ross said (in part):
> The grid is a super storage medium. If we were more interconnected
worldwide, then a series of large solar arrays could do it all. You just
need enough of them facing the sun at any given time and then batteries can
take their better place as mobile storage. This arrangement beats the heck
out of digging all the copper and cobalt needed for stationary storage.
 
 
Unfortunately not practical.  Transmission line losses if nothing else would 
rule it out.  There are other issues as well.
 
 
Jim
 
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Re: [EVDL] Smearing with coal (again)

[jim--- via EV]

Bob said )in part):
> The California Survey back in 2012 or so showed that 45% of all EV owners
charged from clean energy. A 2016 Survey by Ford showed that 85% of all
EV owners charged from clean solar or subscribed for 100% renewables from
their grid, or would when it was offered.
 
That is such a crock - I'm talking about people paying extra to get "green" 
power.  All that means is people are stupid enough to pay extra for something 
that would have been there whether they paid for it or not.  "Buying clean 
power" accomplishes nothing.  You are not getting any different power than if 
you weren't paying the extra, and it does not change the generation mix at all. 
 Maybe it makes people feel better, and it potentially helps to send a 
political message, but it accomplishes nothing.
 
 
 
 
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
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Re: [EVDL] No, electric cars (still) aren't crashing the grid. Again: Good News: EVs Are Not ...

[jim--- via EV]

Bob Bruninga said (in part):
> Thanks for the LIVE California load page. That page today shows the famous
Duck's back curve that is developing in California.  Yes, today (in
winter), the curve still has the demand higher during the day than at
night.  But that same curve during the spring and fall does go negative in
the middle of the day and that is the infamous "Duck's Back Curve" that
will only get worse:
[ https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-california-duck-curve-is- ]( 
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-california-duck-curve-is- )
real-and-bigger-than-expected#gs.4kJv=1w
 
 
March yes, but not in the summer - and only very late fall (we get our hottest 
heat spells in September and October).  Not for a very long time anyway.  
Conveniently peak solar is at least sort of when peak air conditioning load is, 
but we're a long ways from carrying the AC load with solar.
BTW, pull up satellite view on google Earth some time and take a look at how 
much solar there is here in California - it's a LOT.  Particularly in the 
commercial sector.  Look at almost any large retail store or mall, and solar 
abounds.  Not everywhere of course, but a lot and it's growing daily.
 
 
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[ j...@k6ccc.org ]( mailto:j...@k6ccc.org )
 
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Re: [EVDL] No, electric cars (still) aren't crashing the grid. Again: Good News: EVs Are Not ...

[jim--- via EV]

Bob Bruninga said (in part):
> With solar, day will become the new night, with the cheapest energy
available during the day. Already is in California.
 
 
Where are you getting that?  That is certainly not true.  Demand is still 
highest during the day (or with the current weather that results in very little 
air conditioning load, during dinner).  As soon as the weather warms up, air 
conditioning load drives the electric consumption to the highest loads (and 
therefore, prices).  Yes, solar offsets some of the air conditioning load, but 
FAR from all of it. 
This week, most of California is cold (by our standards), but clear.  That 
means that the AC load is very small, but solar is doing pretty well (for 
winter months).  Looking at yesterday's chart from the California Independent 
System Operator (the people who manage bulk power statewide), the largest 
difference between total demand and net demand (total minus solar and wind) was 
about 10:25 AM.  That seems a little odd since that is hours before normal peak 
solar hour.  The chart does not differentiate between solar and wind.  There is 
a different chart that does break down sources of renewable energy.  It 
confirms that the solar peak was about 10:25.  As I type this (08:25 AM) solar 
is producing 2,828 MW and wind is 86 MW.  This constitutes about 62% of 
renewable sources, and all renewable sources constitute 18.5% of total demand.
 
If you want to see what it's doing, check out:   http://www.caiso.com
 
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

[jim--- via EV]

Mark Abramowitz said (in part):
> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from the 
> grid and increased useage.

> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had 
> serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for those 
> loads.
 
Where are you located?  Yes loads have increased, but certainly not causing 
capacity problems that are not being met by my (not so) local utility - 
Southern California Edison.
 
 
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (never buy another AC unit)

[jim--- via EV]

Cor van de Water said (in part):
> I have always been amazed by how most of USA has forced air blowing
> around through their house, which I find
> rather uncomfortable. I am from Europe, where you have radiators under
> windows that are warmed with
> warm water and air in the room naturally circulates at a very low speed
> (natural convection) throughout the room.
 
 
You're entitled to your opinion, but I HATED radiators which were the norm in 
schools when I was a kid.  You always ended up with the kids on one side of the 
room frying while the kids on the other side of the room wearing heavy jackets 
to keep warm.  Same thing with the floor furnace that was in my grandparent's 
house.  In cold weather we'd all huddle within 10 feet of the furnace while the 
rest of the house was frigid.

 
 73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (ice) Experts say there's no need for a 750mi EV-range sweet spot

[jim--- via EV]

Apparently you can't comprehend that someone may want / need to drive 600 - 
1250 miles in a day - where even Tesla SuperCharger charge times would 
substantially add to the length of day.  Or drive 100 miles of hard off road 
(which eats gas FAR faster than highway) while carrying a ton or more of stuff.
 
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
 


-Original Message-
From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" 
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 09:35
To: "Peri Hartman" 
Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" , "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (ice) Experts say there's no need for a 750mi 
EV-range sweet spot



Yes. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

You ended with the comment that we still need ICEs. I don't understand why.


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Re: [EVDL] How the US generates electricity

[jim via EV]

"The interesting thing about this carbon brief map is that my 5kw array
is not listed. "
I just looked at the map and I noticed that at least for Wisconsin (my home) 
and Minnesota, there is a yellow dot near the center of the state that 
represents the installations under 1 MW.  I think that for WI it represents 
34MW and for MN 35MW or something close).  So I suspect that many small PV 
systems are being included, although it is hard to tell how they might  be 
reported.  But I didn't find an equivalent green dot on the wind maps for small 
systems so it seems they are ignoring all the small wind energy systems.
Jim Erdman, in Menomonie, WI
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[EVDL] charger pinout

[Jim via EV]

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Re: [EVDL] postal delivery

[Jim via EV]

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Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (now Home solar)

[jim via EV]

The supposed national average home electrical use is about 900 to 1000 
kwhrs/month, depending on the source of the info. We live in an old farm house 
in Wisconsin (where we have been having high temps of below zero or the low 
single digits for the past week).  We have less than 5kw of PVs mostly on 
ground mounts because the house is too shaded, charge a Nissan Leaf and 
Elec-Trak E15 garden tractor, and most months have a surplus of energy 
generated.  We do heat with wood, and in the winter our furnace fan is the 
largest energy consumer, perhaps being surpassed by the Leaf this winter.  It's 
our first winter with the Leaf and we didn't drive our previous converted 
electric vehicles in the winter.We bought our first PVs in the early 1980s and 
those panels are still functioning properly.Seems to me that the big problem is 
the energy consumption of folks with large and inefficient houses.  The first 
step is always reducing energy use, increasing efficiency, first.
Jim in Western Wisconsin

   
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Re: [EVDL] OT: batteries for solar PV off-grid

[jim via EV]

We heat with wood, using a forced air furnace in our basement.  The furnace has 
a 1/3hp motor for air circulation and also provides much of our winter hot 
water via a firebox coil.  The furnace motor is a major user off electrical 
energy in the winter.  We use 3 to 4 full cords of dry oak and mixed hardwoods 
in a winter.
Jim in western Wisconsin
 
  From: Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu
 To: jim jimin...@yahoo.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 10:34 AM
 Subject: RE: [EVDL] OT: batteries for solar PV off-grid
   
Can I ask what you use for heat in the winter?
Thanks
Bob



-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of jim via EV
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 11:22 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: batteries for solar PV off-grid

We've been using a battery based system since 1977,
   
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Re: [EVDL] OT: batteries for solar PV off-grid

[jim via EV]

We've been using a battery based system since 1977, first using a 1930s vintage 
wind turbine, then a 1940s Jacobs, and started adding PVs to the energy 
production mix around 1981, as an off grid system. We then moved in 1989 to a 
place with an existing grid connection and added our wind/PV system. Until 2 
years ago the system was grid connected using the grid as back up only , and 
then we added more PVs with grid tied microinverters.  Last summer we replaced 
our VW Golf electric conversion with a year old Nissan Leaf, justifying it in 
part because it would use some of our surplus energy from our PV/wind system 
(the local utility just pays avoided fuel costs so using the electricity to 
replace gasoline as a vehicle fuel makes sense to me).
Our current battery is a 24 volt 1500 amp-hour lead acid set, similar to a fork 
lift  battery, and is about 15 years old and still going strong.  It is about 3 
days storage for us not including charging the car.  I'm not sure how many more 
years we will get out of the batteries, but our set that we used in the 1970s 
and 80s was a used telephone company set, and lasted 12 years and was scrapped 
because we moved, not because it had gone bad--and today's battery monitoring 
equipment is much better than just monitoring battery voltage which was the 
choice years ago.
The answer to needing a huge PV array and gigantic battery is to REDUCE YOUR 
ENERGY CONSUMPTION!!  Our system provides all of our electric energy needs 
including charging our Leaf, and we have almost 4 1/2 kw of PVs plus the wind 
generator which might produce 100kw-hr in a good month (we aren't in a 
particularly good wind area, and installed the generator because we had it on 
hand).

When our lead acid battery needs replacement, we will be looking at a couple of 
options, including going to a battery-less grid tied system, a new lead acid 
battery, or a used Lithium battery such as a  used Leaf battery.  Given the 
direction that the utilities seem to be moving in, going back to an off grid 
system with a new battery sounds better and better.  

In the past, friends that used Nickel-iron (Edison) batteries found that the 
voltage range from discharged to useful charged to charging voltage was too 
great for existing charging systems and inverters.  they aren't as efficient as 
lead acid or lithium, either, as far as I can find ou. 
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